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RedHarbringer
03-19-2013, 10:45 AM
Hi, unfortunately due to certain circumstances, I am unable to attend any PTQs for the time being. Thus I wish to share this list I’ve brewed and refined over the course of several weeks in hopes that it may inspire a potential successor to further adjust a true attrition styled control deck into modern’s first established tier 1 archetype. The said deck list below is currently an esper gifts that utilize tokens as an alternative tactic so that it is never dependent on resolving gifts as a route to victory.

DECK LIST
Creatures:
2 Blade Spicer
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Snapcaster
Instant:
1 Disfigure
1 Dismember
1 Esper Charm
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Go for the Throat
3 Mana Leak
2 Path to Exile
1 Remand
1 Spell Snare
Planeswalker:
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Sorcery:
1 Damnation
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Thoughtseize
1 Unburial Rites
Lands:
3 Celestial Colonnade
3 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Fetid Heath
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave

Sideboard:
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Angel of Despair
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
1 Dissipate
2 Esper Charm
2 Shadow of Doubt
1 Thoughtseize
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wrath of God
(considering to remove either dissipate or thoughtseize)



The first portion in the deck I would like to address are the Sorins as I presume this particular piece to likely be the most controversial inclusion. The initial basis as to why I chose to incorporate Sorin into the deck was a means to gain an edge against the uptick in blue decks in resolving a permanent resilient to the typically played removal spells and impervious to all the wrath effects. I wanted it to have a cmc of over 3 for obvious reasons, yet cheap enough to actually at least have some sort of impact against the hyper fast decks no matter how miniscule and to actually resolve it against counter magic and Sorin seemed nice with lingering souls. Also just to get this out of the way, Elspeth was dismissed because she’s just a watered down “sword of x + y” with benefits that I believe better suited for the aggro decks.


After extensive testing, Sorin has far exceeded my expectations in fields I never even deemed him to even be relevant in. He excels against the aggro decks that take on a more mid range. I have won games where an opponent either had an active dark confidant or liliana off of Sorin, including a game where one had both Liliana + dark confidant on the field for 5 consecutive turns (I drew 2 lingering souls shortly after casting Sorin). I had won a game where a jund opponent had a resolved Thrun + Batterskull + Deathrite shaman +Rakdos Charm in hand with wraths nowhere to be found.


Against tron where I had no expectation of him ever prevailing for simply being too slow, I’ve found he plays an extremely pivotal role. Previously, I hedged all my hopes on either gifting for unburial rites +angel of despair or sowing salts(when I still splashed for red) while disrupting their game plan in the meantime and get there from just that. The inclusion of Sorin is strictly the reason why this deck is able to win an attrition war against all of tron’s resolved threats barring Emurkal. The rationale behind this assertion is the emblem he produces enables the lingering souls tokens to contend with the likes of Karns or wurmcoils. Time and again play testing against RG Tron (post-SB), the deck persevered in games where tron resolved 3 consecutive Karns, 2 Karns + 1 wurmcoil + 1 attempted Ulamog + 1 Emurkal hardcasted that swung in once, and recovered from a turn 3 degenerate wurmcoil or Karn that I couldn’t either counter or exile immediately. It’s not as if Sorin remains unmolested throughout the course of the game either. I lose it subsequently to Karn + oblivion stones often enough I’m conditioned to utilize his -2 ability immediately even if my board is empty unless I’m in need of a chump blocker, because that emblem plays a vital role in combating RG Tron in a prolonged game that they can never remove with their oblivion stones. It makes any future lingering souls draw so much more potent that they’re compelled to wrath the board on just half a card, because you’re often swinging for 10 or more with just 2-3 tokens + man land activation. The sudden shift of focus from constantly disrupting everything RG tron does to just interrupting any early game degenerate plays and then just ensuring they do not get Emurkal onto the board makes the match up far more manageable. If Eye of Ulgin + Emurkal ceased to exist, I do not believe it would be too audacious for me to assert this deck has a stronger late game plan than RG tron does and that’s not an easy claim to boast in modern without utilizing tron lands yourself.


Against the hyper aggro decks, ALL the planeswalkers suck, because they’re too cost inefficient for the effects they provide you within the time slot you’re provided. However Sorin buys time which is all you want against those decks, because YOU will win the match if the game gets dragged out naturally. He can’t be ignored like Liliana, Jace, etc, because if they’re bolting your face or neglecting to attack Sorin with any of their remaining critters(I won’t chump block with the vampire in this event unless close to death), I will just put down an emblem and gain back all that life on my backswing. Oh, and now I have open mana to either kill your critters, counter your threats, or lay down what were originally chump blockers that can now efficiently trade with your threats; and you have to answer those 1 or 2 “2/1” life linkers or you will never win the match. The only way for them to invalidate a Sorin is if they can outright put the game away the very next turn. Gideon is just pointless against these decks, because by your 5th land drop you should easily be handling any creatures they cast by then and your primary concern rather is the burn. I was never disappointed in drawing Sorin against these decks as opposed to Lilianna. Gaining a few life points is definitely far more relevant in almost every MU with this deck rather than getting in for 6-7 damage, because your opponent’s life total isn’t relevant unless you’re attacking for lethal while yours in contrast is. Also having played with cryptic command previously, I much rather draw a Sorin rather than cryptic command against these type of decks. Cryptic command demands that you hold up 4 mana up at all times meanwhile the hyper aggro/ burn deck can stockpile on all their 1 cmc spells and then cast them all in one go. That card isn’t even a reliable counter in most match ups, just a means to gain an advantage against the slower decks.


It is important to understand that I am not claiming Sorin to be a hidden gem that no one has yet to properly comprehend; the real all-star is in fact lingering souls. Lingering souls needs no explanation, everyone is aware of just how admirable the card is. So why not deploy support for such a powerful card? The act of pairing anthem effects with tokens was enough to propel a deck dedicated to that purpose into an established archetype purely on the back of lingering souls + spectral procession in a format where the efficient splinter twin combo exist without any card filtering/drawing. Sorin rather fulfils a niche role augmenting your other threats (namely lingering souls) in a deck where I cannot justify expending slots on the 2 cmc anthems that are dead on their own when I already have 3 essentially dead draws. I want anthem effects not so I can generate a faster clock or anything of that sort, but solely for the purpose of my tokens trading far more efficiently with any opposing force. There’s a world of difference when it takes 1-2 tokens rather than 3-5 tokens to kill a threat or only expending half a card as opposed to a full card to eliminate one of your opponent’s full card; it’s just a losing proposition for them. The by-product of being able to assemble a strike force with a total accumulated power of over 20 out of a measly 3 cmc defensive card or 2 + a single manland activation within a turn or 2 is an added bonus.


I’m aware Sorin by himself is slow, but my goal is not racing my opponents. The rest of the deck is dedicated to either keeping the board clean or stalling. I already know creature X and Y does the job better while also presenting a body (wizards blatantly print creatures that dwarfs any other permanent types under the presumption everyone runs creature removal), but where do you think your opponent will dispense their removal on if you aren’t presenting any other good targets for them? He’s just there as a value anthem with huge upside if he manages to stick around. To this date, I had never lost a match where I had managed to lay down the 2nd anthem emblem and 3 power seems to be the magic number as that’s when the tokens start slicing through Karns and Wurmcoils like butter, and anything lesser than those haven’t a chance to compete with my tokens. Sorin has done more than enough if I just get 3 activations from him. I feel I expended far too much time providing my analysis on this subject so I’m going to just end it right here for now.


As a result of extensively play testing this deck list, I am utterly convinced there is much promise to tokens in a control shell. They provide early chump blockers stalling the aggro decks and they’re naturally resilient to targeted removal. When augmented with either anthems effects or Vault of the Archangel, they are nearly unparalleled attrition wise. Token archetypes are ultimately unsuited for racing opponents, because it is inherently a slow tactic. That is why the current iteration of a modern tokens deck can only dismantle aggro decks whilst getting crushed by combo, ramp, and control.


I have actually been pondering whether to actually abandon Gifts Ungiven recently. Anyone who has been playing with the card for long enough is aware of it becoming a liability these days. It receives a ton of splash hate as a consequence of how successful scapeshift, birthing pod, tron, etc archetypes are and the prevalence of fetchlands. Moreover, gifting for the Iona + unburial rites package just isn’t reliable enough in locking out the multitude of decks running around right now and not to mention the frustration of drawing into them.


Alas, I do not believe there’s a strong enough foundation to support a token oriented control deck. The only good early token producer that can be ran is lingering souls. Spectral procession is too white heavy and you lose too many options if one was to attempt devoting the mana base to reliably drop a turn 3 spectral procession. Should I toss out the creeping tarpits or forgo the colorless lands? Snapcaster won’t ever reliably flashback a counter and forget about Liliana nor any double costed blue or black card. Will I reliably have blue or black mana in the early game? Also compromising to expend 4 mana on Spectral Procession is definitely not okay. You lose the natural benefit of possessing early chump blockers to stall with. Blade Spicer while okay (and thankful to the person who recommended it to me), is just not good enough to fully embrace the token path. Unfortunately, the bodies they present do not fully benefit from a 2 cmc anthem and you still lose a large portion of your investment into this card from targeted removal. Still, I like her since a 3 power first strike can stymie a lot of the initial aggression and 4 power first striker stunt some problematic 4 toughness creatures without needlessly losing tokens in the process.


If only Bitterblossom was unbanned, then such a deck would be feasible. But that won’t ever occur, because god forbid they will ever jeopardize the dominance of red. They don’t want such a high performing defensive card that conversely can’t apply serious pressure right away(thus red aggro decks don’t want it) to be legal in this format, because they’re plain-sightedly in bed with red. They also won’t print something as efficient as lingering souls that usurps the aggro decks, so I see no hope for my idea of ever coming to fruition. They likely concluded lingering souls was a mistake and thus printed powerful hosers for it in bonfire of the damned, thundermaw hellkite, illness in the ranks, etc and reprinted rancor. I do not wish to go into a thorough explanation behind this assertion as I had I already expend far too much time writing this, so I’ll just summarize as best I can. If you pay attention to the recent shifts in MTG, they all have a correlated ramification in positioning red to be a dominating force. The advent of printing such undercosted, efficient, powerful creatures promote aggro strategies more than anything else where red has always been king. Casting 4 cmc + 5 cmc spells in standard is now considered an arduous feat. Enchantments, the one type of permanent red could never answer have effectively been made obsolete with creatures possessing better static effects and replaced by planeswalkers that red has the easiest time interacting with their hasted threats and burn. Nowadays red is the only color you can go mono colored and do well in tournament in both standard and modern. It used to be rdw/burn were considered underdogs and only placed well when the meta game didn’t respect them akin to dredge. That is perfectly fine, because red and red related archetypes should never ever be dominant lest MTG games turn into coin flips and “reveal the top 10 cards of your library to determine the winner”. Why then must a single minded, linear archetype be a consistent tier 1 deck? Why must Wizards print cards for them to be resilient to hate when they actively avoid trying to interact with their opponents?


To add insult to injury Wizards is attempting to subvert the current legacy format and mold it into the same fashion as modern. White transformed into the color of hatebears in older formats attempting to wreck every archetype and strategies other than red aggro. But oh, if you have access to red, then lightning bolt and pyroclasm will easily alleviate this concern and crush them! The color of black has been supplanted with cards like Dark Confidant aka bob, which by all accounts is a red card that only aggro and tempo decks want to run. Black’s role is being twisted to aid the red aggro decks splashing black in undermining the other archetypes. But if you have access to lightning bolts, it’s not hard to punish someone thoughtseizing you and having an active bob. Black removal has already lost much of its potency thanks to the plethora of value creatures running rampant. Let’s not forget how blue is being bastardized into the color of tempo, which is red’s forte. As for green, Wizards hates it. I mean, how dare it tries to make burn spells undesirable with their big butts. The cards it’s renowned for like goyf and sylvan library all originate from the older sets. It was absolutely fine for them to let RUG threshold (a red tempo deck that has absolutely no late game whatsoever) warp the legacy format around it for about a year. But when U/W miracles sought to force RUG to abdicate its throne, Wizards was swift to cripple the emerging archetype. It also remedied the persisting Chalice of the Void issue, the bane of every red deck imaginable. And while they were at it, why not also condemn every show and tell variant other than the ones using sneak attack? It maintains the facade that Wizards cares about the legitimacy of the other colors to print those 2 hosers outside of red and incidentally the best splash color for the BG shell is red. It’s obvious Wizards will only print cards that supplement combos in red nowadays. That is the reason why I divulging this deck list in the first place.


Unfortunately, I will be unable to partake in any competitive MTG tournaments this year and with the current trend of bolstering this red agenda, I do not believe this deck will even be playable within a year or 2. Skullcrank and Boros Charm are harbingers of what is to come. Soon, even in legacy the only playable decks will be red or red related archetypes +strategies and red combo. Anything outside of red can only strive to be a meta game deck at best. Giest of Saint Traft (a red card), is Wizard’s giant middle finger to everything other than aggro and tempo. Mark my words, bloodbraid elf will be back in modern once Wizards has achieved its diversity of “red” decks. The only bastion left safe from the poised red domination is vintage, and yet that format so is cost prohibitive I just can’t allow myself to get involved anymore into this game. I give up. I am contributing in hopes that this inspires someone to get in one last good shot with a bona fide attrition deck prevailing against the onslaught of red before the impending doom.


On that note, I’m touching back on the subject of Sorin, because it is unwise to conclude it with only the upsides. Sorin still failed to fulfill the original intent of gaining an edge against the uptick of blue decks. No, it’s not the counter magic as this deck has more than enough tools to circumvent around them. In fact, he’s excellent against the rogue fairies, U/x big midrange, or shackles tempo/control decks, but those decks never had any chance of becoming tier 1 in the first place. As I previously mentioned, red is the dominant color in modern and thus naturally the most common color pairing for blue is red. That is where I found Sorin to be abysmal against, the U/R/x decks. A lot of it hedge on how I typically employ my Sorin. I aggressively execute his -2 ability whenever I get the chance because that’s his primary purpose in deck. I pay no heed to his ultimate, because it foolish to presume a planeswalker can reliably exercise their ultimate ability. Under that scenario, all the planeswalkers are spectacular bombs. I always play under the assumption my opponent are able to retaliate and counteract what I’m doing. If they’re unable to muster an appropriate response and keep up, then they lose. That may be perhaps why I’m partial to decks that excels in attrition, because it isn’t good enough for me to barely just get there in the nick of time and leave it up to chance whether an opponent can top deck correctly or not. Moreover, why should I care about stealing my opponents’ threats when my own will permanently far outclass theirs and I can answer them easily else wise. Unfortunately, this sort of utilization of Sorin leaves him susceptible to a premature demise at the hand of burn spells. Even one usage of his emblem ability often leaves him within lightning bolt range and quite frankly Sorin is strictly lackluster without the emblems. The one or two life linking vampires he creates won’t return any meaningful amount of life back without being augmented with an anthem effect. And it’s even equally or more so demoralizing if he gets assaulted with 2 simultaneous burn spells, because the niche role he is intended for was never actualized. It creates a trifling dilemma where I would like to at least produce 1-2 tokens before his eventual demise, but risk forever losing the opportunity attaining an anthem effect. Further compounding Sorin’s deficiency, the U/R/x decks are adept at preventing this deck from establishing an early board presence to actually benefit from the emblems and by the time you’ve done so, you’re probably already winning because the U/R/x had likely ran out of gas and they never come back from behind afterwards. This is the only time I wished Sorin was an Intangible Virtue as that allows me to maintain open mana and just to prevent the Electrolyze trolling.


Okay so Sorin is stellar against all the non red decks, so should there be any valid concerns? Yes, it’s validated by the domination of red where it’s the only color that has access to nearly all of their prominent spells in modern. I am leery of the play test results I procured against Jund. Every time I found Sorin was triumphant against them and even salvaged victories out of near unwinnable situations where Gifts would had fallen short of, because of the sideboarded hate or sometimes for being a turn too late/I’m not creative enough. Perhaps their burn capacity isn’t anywhere near as dense as UWR tempo or the package associated with Sorin is well poised against them? Then again I seen some rather ludicrous plays like Burst Lightning a 2/1 lifelinker to prevent it from blocking and I had other blockers as well so it was strictly to prevent me from gaining 2 life in actuality. In conclusion, I am unsure of Sorin’s playability in retrospect to a red infested format and whether to move away from him or not. Perhaps there’s a resilient CA engine that’s well versed against the onslaught of red that I haven’t looked into? If you’re fond of Sorin for whatever reason, I’ve found a composition of lingering souls, blade spicer, vault of the archangel, and Sorin (and SB’ed timely reinforcements) to have some merit, particularly in a disruptive shell. It does seem well poised against what the BGx shells are trying to accomplish and Lingering Souls + Sorin should straight outclass what other possible midrange decks are attempting. Though in all likelihood, Hero of Bladehold would service you better anyways, because you’re likely to present favorable targets for removal to divert them away and your deck doesn’t excel in the late game.


I apologize for the discussion on Sorin to encompass much of this article. However in my defense, it seems an in-depth analysis was necessitated due to the prevailing ill-conceived beliefs and notions surrounding the card.


The next subject I would like to address is Esper Charm, because that card is far more complex than many are willing acknowledge. “It’s clunky for its effect, it doesn’t affect the board, the decklist is too tight, drawing multiples of them will have me dead against the hyper aggro decks, etc” are all brutally fair assessment of the card. Yet, what is preventing them from being relegated to the sideboard? Why hasn’t anyone thought of this ploy before? Of course, I wouldn’t have delved into this subject if it was merely to boast about this ingenious endeavor. Against the decks you would want to employ them from the sideboard, both the draw two and discard two modes are quite enticing features. The nature of its complexity is mostly choosing which of the either two modes to utilize, for which there is no clear cut explanation because the most appropriate mode is determined by evaluating the situation and circumstances, and gambling at any given time. Esper Charm can either draw you into more threats, answers, lock pieces, lands, etc, or strip 2 cards from your opponent you very likely would of had to contend with anyway, particularly post SB. Hence it has the potential to be far more potent than any other counter spell. A counter spell will rot in your hand whilst the combo player can freely hand sculpt to a critical mass that will overpower your counter wall. Esper Charm on the other hand either proactively stalls the combo player from assembling the necessary components to plow through your reactive defense or draw into cards that will lock them out of the game(the best method for a control deck to combat combo). These charms are also excellent counter bait for the purpose of tempting an opponent to tap out on their EoT to clear way for your planeswalkers against the blue decks. Sure they may not counter your attempt at drawing more cards, but perhaps he/she may shift their prerogative if 2 relevant spells of theirs is imperiled. This is the same tactic tempo decks use with their Vendillion Clique + Restoration Angel in an attempt to divert counters away from their Giests. Often, the best deck building strategy against blue is to employ threats both at instant speed and sorcery speed as sorcery speed threats are naturally superior hence inclining your opponent to hesitate countering your instant speed spells for fear of being punished by the sorcery speed spell that’s more dangerous if resolved. Either way, it’s a losing proposition for the enemy. Esper Charm is favored over Vendillion Clique, because the latter is primarily a tempo card. The body itself is nigh meaningless if you aren’t pressuring their life total and will likely get promptly removed, and terrible against opposing lingering soul tokens or electrolyze. It’s ETB effect only affects card quality in which you replace a single card and roll the dice hoping they don’t draw anything that is equivalently as powerful as the card you sent to the bottom of their library. Esper Charm is a clear cut 2 for 1, which is more desirable if you’re seeking to grind your opponents out.


Do not underestimate an instant speed Mind Rot. Once your opponent’s hand size is diminished, the thing can start behaving like an essential time walk by forcing your opponent to discard on their draw step. I have done this a great many times with Esper Charm once I’ve established a clock to secure my victory. It can be that pseudo hard counter to a top decked Scapeshift. There’s a reason why you do not usually see instant speed discard printed; it’s very strong and abusable. The notion of instant speed discard gives birth to an idea that suggests Alchemist’s Refuge may very well be playable in eternal formats if only to alleviate the dreadful feeling of top decking Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize later in game. And of course, enables Life of the Loam + Raven’s Crime to become an actual hard lock to anything sorcery speed.


Protip; against the tempo decks you may encounter ie nearly every deck in modern that incorporates blue. The instant speed Mind Rot is usually more desirable as these decks are usually attempting to avert a grind out attrition game where this deck specializes in and thus seek to end the game before all your accumulated CA actually start to matter and will attempt to disrupt your defensive countermeasures in the meantime with their more efficient spells. Thus it is more beneficial if you cause them to prematurely run out of gas so you can properly take control of the game. Extensive play testing indicates these tempo decks never come back from behind once you’ve established a board presence. I only prioritize the draw mode in this match up to ensure early land drops if I have no lands in hand, if I’m in need of an answer for an imminent threat on board, or my opponent is already hellbent and I wish to establish a board presence to close the game out. Note that the ascribed portrayal does not correlate to other match ups as the more powerful spells and disruption you muster actually will resolve.


I have grown weary of composing this rather extensive essay and the drain on me is recently reflected on my less eloquent approach in devising this article. Thus I will hastily conclude my report.


Some of you may ask “Why not play Gifts Rock as opposed to this deck?” and to that inquiry I will retort the current iteration of Gifts Rock has two fundamental flaws with how it was constructed. First, there’s way too much variance on its draws with the plethora of “1 ofs” lumped together that have no sense of direction on what it wants to accomplish and the only similarities between them are that they’re really nice Gifts Ungiven targets and it’s GY themed. This is further exacerbated when those “1 ofs” consist of Raven’s Crime, Academy Ruin, and Iona that are either subpar, too slow, or essentially dead draws on their own. The only knot that ties them all together and source of consistency is Gifts Ungiven, which leads to its second design defect. That deck is overly reliant on Gifts Ungiven to assemble the components within a reasonable time frame and by extension dependent on GY interactions to even properly function leaving it susceptible to GY hate. It matters not how many angles of attack your deck is capable of if they all get stymied by the same group set of cards, hence Gifts Rock can only really strive to become a metagame deck at best. Sure, Abrupt Decay can remedy this concern, but what will you do if you don’t draw into it and what will you do in the meantime? A meaningful portion of the deck is occupied by “designate Gifts targets” that cannot help you stave off pressure. And without Gifts Ungiven, it just plays out like a bad rock deck. In the end, what do you really gain from these concession; the capability of crafting Gifts piles to be on virtual auto pilot? If you’re creative enough, a combo feature isn’t necessary for your gifts pile to put the game away.


My deck on the other hand does have a unified sense of direction of what it’s trying to accomplish; collectively they serve to draw out the game where it shines in the late game by being extremely proficient at trading pieces to win attrition wars. The mana base is more stable and more slots can be devoted to the purpose of consistently disrupting the opposition. The entirety of the deck is adequate at deterring and obstructing early aggression with the exclusion of 3 cards and there are no other cards dead on their own other than these 3 within the first 4-5 turns of the game. Its alternative angle of attack is independent of interacting with Gifts Ungiven nor is Gifts Ungiven necessary to win. This deck is very resilient towards the typical control hate it may encounter.


MU report:
Against all the archetypes you would expect control to dominate in such as w/x Martyr Proc, kiki pod, living end, etc, this deck curb stomps them. Random rogue decks are typically helpless to Gifts Ungiven as well, so I’m skipping them.


Eternal Command – A very skill intense MU, trend carefully. Withholding the Cryptic Command + Eternal Witness + Aether Vial lock, it is characteristically a tempo deck and should be treated as such. They are a lot slower than your normal tempo variants nor is their burn capacity as dense as UWR tempo, which will ultimately work to their disadvantage (Sorin is actually good here, since they’re typically dispensing all the burn to your face to pressure you). The aforementioned lock isn’t as infallible as they’d like to believe and can be dismantled if it ever does come to fruition. However, there are far more sequences available for you to circumvent this lock if you had already established a board presence by then. Establish board presence, you win. Post sideboard, the deck is very well poised to take out Eternal Command as commentated by an opposing player.
Slightly favorable


4CC Gifts – Bad Rocks deck without Gifts Ungiven, which my deck can already crush and I have my own to put them under.
Favorable


UWR Giest – The format’s premiere tempo deck, I had procured more testing analysis out of this match up than any other. I won most games, but admittedly I secured much of those victories as a result of simply out playing them. There’s definitely a good variance on how well UWR performs based on player skill. Thus I cannot soundly determine a MU breakdown since I’ve only played against so few veteran pilots. Sometimes I ponder whether I’m already capable of competing with the top pros if I just concede to playing a red deck.
Perhaps even – slightly favored?


Wafo Tapo’s UWR – Oh cool, finally a control mirror! Nope, I was just being sarcastic. The first time I played against this deck, I initially presumed it to be a fellow competing control deck and lost as a consequence. Now I treat it accordingly to what it truly is, a tempo deck, and don’t lose to it anymore unless land screwed. Just because it assumes the control role in most match ups and use bigger spells doesn’t change the inherent premise that it’s just a counter burn deck that seeks to only disrupt the opponent long enough for it to burn their face off. They cannot hope to eliminate every single threat while maintaining card parity, even with Sphinx’s Revelation, and my late game plan is flat out superior; my cards are inherently more powerful than theirs. They will realize they can’t win an attrition war and will resort to burning your face as quickly as possible. You can expect naked Snapcasters next game just to pressure your life total. However, they aren’t renowned for their speed and it’s easier to drag the game out and survive than against its sibling, UWR Giest. Prioritize hitting your land drops because it’s paramount in this MU.
Slightly favored - favored


Infect – Coin flip MU on the basis counter magic is nigh meaningless if you’re on the draw + still subpar on the play and much of my deck’s interaction comes online turn 2 and onward. Wrath is terrible no matter what and Sorin + Blade Spicer can only block ground threats. Lingering Souls though will stall them indefinitely for you to put the game away. Game 1 is still rough, because you’re mostly keeping hands that are permissible against the majority of the field rather than accommodating specifically towards a blitz deck. G2 + G3 drastically improve on the premise of knowing what you want the content of your opening hand to be. And of course your god hand will trump theirs; hf with chalice on 1.
Disfavored (on draw) – slightly disfavored g1
Slightly favored – favored (on play) g2 – g3


Boogle – You’re not reliant on targeted removal and its slower than infect
Overall slightly favored - favored


(contracted a very bad cold; so bear with me)

Eggs – Gifts for Iona + disruption will win g1. A lot of dead cards though and without gifts, your disruption can only hold out for so long. Still winnable. Probably slightly disfavored though. Post board, you expose it for the glass cannon deck it really is. So many lock pieces that are good against other decks all work here. Furthermore, no dead cards! You have to be very unlucky or incompetent to lose g2 + g3.
Favorable


Scapeshift – Only thing note worthy is that Sorin buys a turn and mind rotting with esper charm is marvelous, because they need every single card in hand to reach critical mass to successfully go off. Only few test results procured though.
Even – slightly favored?


Affinity – Coin flip on who plays first. Counters are only okay on play and discard is useless after 1-2 turns. Always win if they do not produce that killer board state turn 2. Lingering souls is clutch and blade spicer useful on ground. Elesh norn is GG.
Overall probably even


RG Tron – g1 atrocious. Need a very precise sequence of plays to win or they’re unlucky. Only way to drastically improve G1 is to mainboard Angel of Despair or Terresadon. G2 + G3 much better depend on SB slots, though stuff like shadow of doubt and stony silence always good to have. Not sure worth keeping Angel of Despair just for this MU. G2 + G3 even – slightly favored
Overall probably slightly disfavored


Mono U Tron – better g1s, worse g2 + g3


Splintertwin – never tested


Gruul Hyper aggro – Only played once when it started emerging like 2-3 weeks ago. Crushed it both games. Seems easy. Very little burn, probably slower than affinity (and I’m not reliant stony silence at all to beat them), and nothing resilient like Giest post wrath. Post board, 6 virtual wraths; disrupt and chump block to survive to wrath the board, then proceed to either kill anything that moves or dump rest of contents in hand.
Not enough compiled data and above was theory crafting


Domain Zoo – Why is giest not banned yet bitterblossom, ancestral vision, etc is?
Slightly disfavored


Burn –
slightly disfavored – even


Hate Bears – MU breakdown varies greatly on how it was built. The only really annoying sequence play is resolved Thalia + Gaddock Teeg when they’re on the play. Everything else able to play around with correct sequencing. Not dependent on Gifts to win. Sorin will crush them as well. Wrathing the first time is usually GG. It seems the more creatures you add like the recently introduced Blade Spicers, the easier this MU becomes. Tip; do not chump block if your life total isn’t abysmally low unless you plan to wrath next turn. They have absolutely 0 reach. Those chump blockers can later protect Sorin and a chump blocker today may kill that leonin arbiter tomorrow with either Sorin emblem or Vault of the Archangel. Sad reality that the decks that present the most trouble for me have red.
slightly disfavored – slightly favored


B/G aggro “mid range” – described previously
Slightly favorable – favorable


U/W midrange or tempo – it’s easier than UWR
All testing ceased nearly 2 weeks ago. Exception was a few days ago when I tried to procure test result from Gruul hyper aggro since it seemed to be the new rave. Failed to acquire said test results.


The deck is quite skill intensive to pilot. There are a lot line of plays that aren’t obvious at first glance. You need to be very creative with your Gifts piles since it’s not on auto pilot against many decks. An example would be the last time I played against Gift Rocks.
Scenario; enemy has a Liliana ticking up to ultimate with 2 spirit blockers + Dark Blast in GY whilst I have a Lingering Soul in GY and Gifts Ungiven in hand. He activates Lilliana +1 and I respond with Gifts Ungiven fetching Elesh Norn + Unburial Rites + Lingering Souls + something relevant so that I will get either Lingering Souls or Unburial Rites (so I have 2 usage out of it if Elesh Norn dies in any other way rather than getting exiled). In the end, I got Unburial Rites + Elesh Norn in hand and promptly discarded Elesh Norn. I flashbacked both Lingering Souls and passed back. He can only kill 2 spirit tokens before passing (Dark Blast and edict). I reanimated Elesh Norn killing his spirit tokens and my own becoming 3/3 flyers. He lost his Liliana and he drew Gifts Ungiven a turn too late to remedy the situation.


Furthermore, how your plays and land drops are sequenced are imperative for optimal play, and it’s not just turn 1 play inquisition, turn 2 keep mana open for 2 cmc spell etc. That inquisition can be saved for turn 3 to increase the probability you can nab that Giest of Saint Traft while keeping open mana for mana leak and inadvertently reveals more information in the process. Inquisition also serves the role of clearing away opposing counter magic the turn you want to resolve your more powerful spells. You have to play those tapped manlands at some point. Identifying which are the most prominent turns you need all your mana untapped ahead of time is key. The correct sequencing varies greatly depending on the archetype you’re facing, the situation on board, and the contents of your hand (and sometimes your opponent’s). A lot of that comes from intuition, thought processing, and experience. There were some other things I wanted to mention, but can’t because of the crippling headache this cold is giving me.


Additional notes:
I suggest you play test the deck for a while to get the general feeling and understand what role each card plays before modifying to better pinpoint.
Deck is currently design to be as versatile as possible against everything. You can modify to accommodate your own metagame. For instance, if you want more leverage against aggro decks, increase the number of cmc 1 + cmc2 spells for stronger early game interactions. Removal spells typically better against them than discard or counter spells.

Sorin + Blade Spicer initially were artificially increased to 2ofs to procure more test date. Initially intended for 1 Sorin MB and 1 in SB as final adjustment if deemed worthy.
Considering whether to move Iona to the SB. I had lost more games with her in my hand in contrast to how many games I’ve won with her. I move Iona frequently to the SB anyhow g2 + g3. Elesh Norn is actually hard castable at some point, generally more helpful against blue decks, and has actual synergy to other cards.

Sorin is hard to completely replace, because currently the deck seeks to utilize the synergy between him and the 3 drops to overpower what most others are doing as alternative angle of attack. Without another engine, you’re mostly left with Gifts + manlands to carry you through, though that may adequate for you.

Liliana is 2of, because I mostly view her as value edict. Very few cards I actually want to pitch. I actually want every single spirit token because there’s support for them currently. She’s stronger in a disruptive aggro or tempo shell.

kombatkiwi
03-19-2013, 12:12 PM
I wasn't convinced about your section on why this is better than normal gifts, which is essentially the crux of the entire article.

Your deck seems to have a worse attrition-based lategame than theirs (even though this is what you trumpet as your deck's key strongpoint) because you don't have either of the following:
Ruins -> Batterskull/EE
Loam -> Raven's Crime/Worm Harvest/Ghost Quarter etc

Being able to target yourself with raven's crime also lets you gifts into a way to discard your Unburial Rites targets when naturally drawn which is a problem that you seem to struggle with in your post. Loam is also makes Liliana way better and means she's far less likely to be played as a 'value edict'.

You also aren't playing Deathrite Shaman unlike normal gifts, which is a huge deal. It's commonly cited as the best card in the format and you didn't state any reason why you thought that it wasn't worth playing.

All these cards are worse against gravehate, sure, but if you're afraid of graveyard hate then why even play a deck with Gifts Ungiven in the first place?

You wrote 870 words about your 1-of Esper Charm, for goodness' sake. I feel like you could have just made a post in the BUG Gifts thread that we already have, suggesting that people test Sorins but instead you decided to write some incredibly pretentious rant about how all eternal formats are becoming shit, you understand this game better than wizards and if you could play in events you would be winning everything.

I almost died laughing when I read the sentence beginning "I have grown weary of composing this rather extensive essay" because it was far, far before that when I grew weary of reading it.

TL:DR (Yes, I even believe that this post is long enough to warrant one)
If you think that Gifts rock is bad, the solution is not to play a bad gifts rock; Play a different deck.

RedHarbringer
03-20-2013, 04:59 AM
I wasn't convinced about your section on why this is better than normal gifts, which is essentially the crux of the entire article.

Your deck seems to have a worse attrition-based lategame than theirs (even though this is what you trumpet as your deck's key strongpoint) because you don't have either of the following:
Ruins -> Batterskull/EE
Loam -> Raven's Crime/Worm Harvest/Ghost Quarter etc

Being able to target yourself with raven's crime also lets you gifts into a way to discard your Unburial Rites targets when naturally drawn which is a problem that you seem to struggle with in your post. Loam is also makes Liliana way better and means she's far less likely to be played as a 'value edict'.

You also aren't playing Deathrite Shaman unlike normal gifts, which is a huge deal. It's commonly cited as the best card in the format and you didn't state any reason why you thought that it wasn't worth playing.

All these cards are worse against gravehate, sure, but if you're afraid of graveyard hate then why even play a deck with Gifts Ungiven in the first place?

You wrote 870 words about your 1-of Esper Charm, for goodness' sake. I feel like you could have just made a post in the BUG Gifts thread that we already have, suggesting that people test Sorins but instead you decided to write some incredibly pretentious rant about how all eternal formats are becoming shit, you understand this game better than wizards and if you could play in events you would be winning everything.

I almost died laughing when I read the sentence beginning "I have grown weary of composing this rather extensive essay" because it was far, far before that when I grew weary of reading it.

TL:DR (Yes, I even believe that this post is long enough to warrant one)
If you think that Gifts rock is bad, the solution is not to play a bad gifts rock; Play a different deck.

I'm not really in a mood to argue or refute someone elses assertion when he/she didn't even bother play testing. Perhaps I shouldn't had rushed to finish typing everything when I fell ill before submitting. You reminded me though to add the following;
"The 3rd Esper Charm is suppose to be in SB, however it’s currently occupying the place where a 2nd snapcaster would be. I believe I need 1 more removal or counter spell before I can adjust accordingly. Not sure which of the two would be better and I also need to accommodate the SB in retrospect as well. Not sure which of the heavy spells to cut first to make room. Perhaps not desired? Not fully sure yet to move Iona to Sb yet though that makes everything easier. Thus Esper Charm MB was the product of my indecisiveness and laziness."

Of course though you skimmed through everything failing to notice I was referring to Esper Charms in the SB, not MB.

Furthermore, another 4 cmc spell in gift rocks is the last thing it needs. Does it matter how many late game engines you have if you can't survive until then to make use of it? Its the same kind of fallacy of someone claiming they have Griselbrands + Emurkals in their deck and so they have a much better late game. This is a red dominated format. All those cards occupy space that you could've been early disruption to stall and control the board in the meantime. Nobody considers Gifts Rocks to be a control deck, because it can't reliably control the board early game and if Gifts Ungiven never resolves, then it's just plays out like a bad rock deck, because all those designate gift targets are either subpar, too slow, or dead on their own. That's why I said variance is the deck's weakness. It can't consistently disrupt everything and the only source of good consistency for assembling your engines in a reasonable time is Gifts Ungiven. You have to admit Gifts Rock currently is in need of a rework; either it trims the fat or utilize other enablers to get your engines out and forgoes even more disruption.

I didn't post in a the BUG gifts thread, because I'm only using Gifts Ungiven to supplement an already streamlined deck. I'm mostly fine if they SB in hate for it, because I'm not reliant on it, gifts can just be for value if its GY hate, and it slows their deck.

As for Deathrite Shaman, I never disputed it was an excellent 1 drop. If you really need a reason, its simply because on its own it doesn't hinder the enemy's game plan to a grinding halt and slow the game down, which is what I want my 1 + 2 cmc spells to be doing. I don't want to say much else, because my thought processing isn't at a optimal level and I don't won't say anything incorrect. I just don't believe I gain much accelerating my own game plan and I need disruption in the first place to make use of its life gain ability. And then there's the wraths. If you really want Deathrite Shaman in the deck, cut Nihil Spellbomb in SB and replace with Esper Charm, cut a land, and you have 2 shamans in MD already. For green mana, change a Watery Grave to Overgrown Tomb, go up to 8 fetchlands or more, and use Misty Rainforests.

kombatkiwi
03-20-2013, 12:31 PM
Here is a deck that I consider "Gifts Rock" just so that we're on the same page.
It came 6th in a 159-man PTQ in Philadelphia on the 2nd of March (source: mtgpulse.com).

Creature [8]
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Snapcaster Mage

Instant [10]
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Darkblast
1 Dismember
4 Gifts Ungiven
2 Path to Exile

Sorcery [12]
1 Damnation
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Life from the Loam
4 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Raven's Crime
1 Thoughtseize
1 Unburial Rites

Artifact [1]
1 Engineered Explosives

Planeswalker [3]
3 Liliana of the Veil

Land [26]
1 Academy Ruins
1 Breeding Pool
3 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
3 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Snow-Covered Swamp

60 cards

Sideboard:

1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Golgari Charm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wrath of God
1 Batterskull
1 Torpor Orb
2 Stony Silence
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Jace Beleren


So out of your deck the cards that would be considered early disruption/removal/protect yourself etc (3 mana or less, say)

2 Blade Spicer
1 Snapcaster
1 Disfigure
1 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
3 Mana Leak
2 Path to Exile
1 Remand
1 Spell Snare
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
1 Thoughtseize
23 Cards

And the gifts deck
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Darkblast
1 Dismember
2 Path to Exile
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Raven's Crime (Debatable)
1 Thoughtseize
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Liliana
21 Cards

So your assertion that gifts has slots that are dead wish targets that don't help you stabilize is really a difference of only 2-3 cards.
4 Deathrite Shamen are also able to keep you in the game because they gain you life, disrupt their graveyard, etc.
I suppose you're also playing a Damnation in addition to the Supreme Verdict but I'm extremely doubtful that these few cards make as much of a difference as you assert.

Now that we've established that the two shells of these decks are essentially the same (both have 26 lands, even), let's assess the rest of the differences.

You have
One less gifts
An Esper charm
2 Sorins
Vault of the Archangel

Rock has
The 4th Gifts (Analogous to a Sorin)
Loam (Analogous to Esper Charm)
4 Deathrite Shaman (It's Deathrite Shaman lol you don't have anything that compares to this)
Academy Ruins

Can you see how I view your deck now? Can you see why I think it is much worse than Gifts Rock?

Can you see how "All those designate gifts cards" are essentially just Raven's Crime, Loam, EE, and Darkblast, and how all of these cards are fine without gifts? (Raven's Crime is marginal but it gives you so much lategame power it's completely wrong to not include it).
-EE is Analagous to your second wrath effect.
-Darkblast is like a higher-utility Disfigure with a drawback, I'm not going to say it's better or worse.
-Loam helps you hit land drops, makes Liliana imba, lets you recur Tec Edge, Quarter and Tar Pit. Darkblast and Loam help you mill into Lingering Souls / Unburial Rites / Unburial Rites targets.

I even think your disruption suite is worse
-No Abrupt Decay and no Pulse and no EE means you have literally zero ways of dealing with a resolved noncreature permanent barring a Liliana ult. I guess you can Esper Charm their Splinter Twin or something.
-I don't think Leak is correct. (Leak becomes a crap card often because you're trying to make the game go late where they can just pay for it. Also, to quote a recent Ari Lax article: "Beyond Snapcaster Mage, I don't really like any of the blue cards. All of the blue answers are counterspells, which are timing specific and reactive. This goes against the principle of all your cards being always good." Admittedly he was talking about a different sort of deck but the same principle applies). It's easy enough to find decks similar to the PTQ deck above that do play Leak so it could be just personal preference.
-One random spell snare seems really loose. ("Already streamlined deck?" Really?) (Also see above parentheses. Note that 6th-place PTQ man above isn't even playing counterspells in his sideboard and neither do his Leak-maining compatriots)
-Fewer Liliana
-Unable to crush people out of the game with Loam+Crime
-No Darkblast

I do like the Disfigure because obviously early outs to Deathrite and fast guys are excellent but that's about it.
I won't comment on the Blade Splicer(s) because I'm really not sure how that card plays out in a variety of different situations.

It isn't necessary for me to actually test your deck to evaluate it because I have already tested other gifts decks, similar to the above list. I can (and I have) evaluate your deck based on the inclusion and absence of a few particular cards that sets your deck apart from those. I'm not at all convinced that what you have is better than decks other people have already succeeded with in large events.

RedHarbringer
03-21-2013, 09:40 PM
Flames removed. I'm sure you're capable of dealing with constructive criticism more maturely. If you intend to keep posting here, kindly avoid insulting other members in the future. Thanks. -zilla

The only reason I'm posting is because there is legitimacy with Ravens + Life. I overlooked that possibility in favor of building a robust control and more fixated on trying to fit in a 2nd Snapcaster. Perhaps it can still be robust if Ravens + Life package is added in. Iona goes to SB replacing Angel of Despair, Esper Charm moved to SB replacing something there, cut either Inquistion or Thoughtseize, and then add Raven's Crime, Life of the Loam, and that removal/counter spell I've always wanted for the ideal count. Then cut the final Snapcaster for Gifts Ungiven fully embracing it. Final result would be I've cut one card useless on its own for 2 cards that are subpar on their own. Then post sideboard you move out either Unburial Rites (and possibly Elesh Norn) or Life of the Loam and Raven's Crime, and you'll only have 1 card in library that will be rendered completely useless against GY hate and you can laugh away as the rest of the deck is still perfectly functional even against GY disruption. Modifying the deck in such a fashion will probably mitigate the tron conundrum g1 and definitely push MUs like Scapeshift more favorable. I really like snapcaster and particularly the gift piles he enables, but that probably wouldn't be necessary anymore as the unburial rites package or Life + Raven + tectonic edge/ghost quarters should be enough in almost every MU. Cutting a Sorin instead would suffice, but I believe acquiring a engine independent of the GY reliably is more beneficial. I think Sorin + Blade Spicers should only be fully cut if another engine is installed in their absence.

However, I'm still skeptical of such adjustments, because of the impact it would have on the mana base and I favor consistency above all else. I wasn't in need of such a high count of blue mana sources to begin with, but if such changes were made the deck should still reliably obtain it's 2nd white source by the 4th land drop for the wraths. Having the option to acquire 3 wraths to circumvent GY hate is clutch. Definitely needs testing as what I had envisioned wasn't another Gifts deck, but rather an attrition styled control deck that only used Gifts Ungiven supplement its strategy. I was even considering abandoning Gifts. I'm done though, I found a new hobby. You guys can go test. Definitely my last post.

RedHarbringer
04-12-2013, 11:25 AM
How was any of that ranting "constructive criticism"? His comparisons and breakdown analysis is a complete joke. That deck list he extracted has no business playing snapcasters. There's a grand total of 8 spells with an cmc of 2 or below that can flashbacked, 2 of which you shouldn't really be using in the early turns let alone flashbacked, and the other 2 will impair your life total. Flashing back spells above 2 cmc with snapcaster is only okay, which means it's not good enough if you can't consistently flash back spells with just 3-4 mana up since one can do plenty of powerful things at 5 mana anyhow. And he still went ahead to roster snapcasters as "early disruption". Flashing naked Snapcasters is only suppose to be an option in the event of bad luck, not its main feature. Also, FYI I only consider spells 2 cmc or below as early disruption(which that deck is sorely lacking in), because quite frankly you can still lose on turn 3 goldfish or turn 4 WITH counter spell back up, and bob demands removal pronto, but I'll entertain further with kombat's classification.

Dark Blast is far too conditional to be considered as a reliable removal spell (and should be in the sideboard like every other conditional spell), and it doesn't even touch the most famous mana dork. A turn 3 sorcery speed edict is often too slow and too late as often it will just remove some pathetic 1 drop that already did its damage unless you either remove something beforehand or power her out on turn 2, neither of which the deck list cited can do too reliably. If he's going to put Raven's Crime on that list of "early disruption", then Esper Charm should be in there as well; which I've already explained is a flex spot for something cheaper, because I'm unsure of what to replace it with and all 3 esper charms should ideally be in SB (which he conveniently chose to ignore). Maelstrom Pulse is also slow, though fine under normal circumstances since it's a catch-all, however I'm pointing it out precisely because that deck is already far too clunky. And finally, did he seriously classified Engineered Explosives as early disruption? Those 1 drops sure are frightening when you've got access to 3 mana. A 1 drop already swung at least twice or accelerated out other threats. I guess there's tokens, but tokens can't really kill you on turn 4 anyhow no matter how many aggro elements are supplementing them. If you so much as mention it can kill other things beyond 1 drops, then the wraths and Sorin ought to be classified as early disruption as well.

So no, it's more than 2-3 card difference. Likely this fool is going to retort "5-6 cards doesn't make much of a difference" if I just simply end it at that, because it's sorely evident he lacks comprehending the fundamental principles of deck building. Otherwise he would had discerned I'm trying to attain a critical mass of disruption. He also would have noted like I have another flaw; why the hell does the cited deck has a land count of 26 when there's 4 Deathrite Shamans? The Deathrite Shamans he is gloating over so much about are so good precisely, because they're mana accelerators that aren't negligible after a few turns. This isn't rocket science, you replace 1 land for every 2 mana dork or ramp. It's deck building 101, any competent deck builder knows this. Where's the need for so much mana sources, and that's withholding the life of the loams as well? Either use card draw or ramp at that point. Just because a deck does well at a tournament, a PTQ at that, doesn't necessarily indicate its good or solid when luck, player skill, and obviously others running bad decks is involved.

"Admittedly he was talking about a different sort of deck but", no buts, don't take things out of context and apply them to decks trying to accomplish different things. I have played with Abrupt Decay previously in a different control shell and my distaste for it is primarily its inability to deal with man lands that no discard, counter, or wrath can ever touch. Actually, why am I even bothering with the comparisons when I've already stated in my last post prior to our generous moderator deleting the first segment that it was a mistake for me to bring up gifts rocks when I was exhibiting an attempt at a different archetype.

I might as well continue on about my aversion to gifts rock since I had already stated this much. The common current concoctions of it IS a wobbly mess of clunky cards that ended up as a slow, wonky dredge deck with everyone trying to shove in all sorts of GY interactions. I'm not the only one to arrive at that conclusion; that pro (can't remember his name) arrived at the same conclusion and attempted to clean + polish it out for GP San Diego. Evidently that fool wasn't visionary enough to completely overhaul it and left the deck still too vulnerable to GY hate. Why should a "robust control deck" as he claimed fear hyper aggro with GY disruption when one could just gift 3 wraths and still carry the game away? The fabled Deathrite Shaman is a prime reason why decks shouldn't be too reliant on GY unless they're artifacts. I lol'ed when he essentially asserted that UWR rolls over to Gifts when they'll likely just counter it and burn you out before prior to any engines getting started, and he probably realized that miscalculation after the GP. Admittedly I never saw his deck list so I'm unsure how well it either plays at instant speed or play around counters, but something as cumbersome as a Sun Titan isn't a good sign.

Would anyone be so kind as to inform me what is exactly wrong with ever using Gift Ungiven as a simple tutor in a control shell? Why should it only be restricted to GY combo? That's my reply Kombat's comment I shouldn't be using Gift Ungiven if I'm "afraid of gy hate".

Out of every gifts deck I had played against, there was exactly one that I had ever commended. Blue was literally only splashed for gifts ungiven, nothing else for an otherwise inherently junk midrange deck. Neatly designed, I'm unsure if it played much cumbersome spells, but it can definitely power them out with the additional support of Noble Hierarch. I'm not particularly interested in that direction though. I desire a tier 1 control deck and I'm insistent on it for the same reason I've brought up legacy. Where am I suppose to play control when the ones designed around Counterbalance and Chalice of the Void (my favorite) were thrown under the bus thanks to Abrupt Decay? Esper Stoneblade as far as I'm concerned is a midrange deck that (surprise!) is weak to red cards. Enchantress can't even win against opponents with ZERO enchantment hate. Do you understand where I'm going with this? Can you imagine my burden if I wish to play control, I'm essentially stuck with the exceedingly cost prohibitive Vintage unless I purposely play inferior decks?

Speaking of red, the only reason I broken my silence is, because I saw revisions made to those Jund decks. Apparently the pros had wised up a little and stopped fiddling around with Thruns + Batterskulls in favor of Thundermaw Hellkites like a big aggro red deck should had done all along (no idea what the hell they're doing with Ajani tho, are they are trying to be flashy?). I never understood why people had the audacity to believe that Thruns were ever capable of carrying the entire game by their loathsome selves against control. They're probably great against UWR decks, but those are either tempo or counter-burn. Control is already compelled to have multiple answers for hex proof threats, because Giest is such a nightmare. A resolved Elspeth is always more frightening if its resiliency that is sought after or Demigod of Revenge if you just want to straight out troll counter spells and still get in good damage. I guess it plays on Supreme Verdict not preventing regeneration, but still any control oriented deck is likely to be able to go over the top of it anyhow. Anyways, the reason I'm addressing Thundermaw Hellkite is because I've never tested against that card outside of UWR tempo and apparently the new fad for jund/naya/ 4 colors is to run multiple copies of it. Actually, I don't believe I've ever tested against any deck that had multiple copies of Thundermaw Hellkite and I imagine that creature throws a wrench in what you're trying to do with Sorin. My successful testing Sorin vs jund/junk were against things like Thrun, Batterskull, and the occasional huntmaster or Hero of Bladehold which I never cared about, because I had answers for them or I could brickwall with a 4/3 first striker. Tapping out for Sorin could translate possibly losing it next turn to a Thundermaw regardless of defenders and the emblem means shit if the Lingering Soul tokens it was bolstering are going to be wiped away, which was the main selling point to Sorin since he hedges heavily on Lingering Souls. The emblem can still empower the next batch I guess which proves valuable against Tron, but I still do not like the implications of it and you have more time against tron anyhow. Sorin's emblem should had also increased toughness, nobody plays Glorious Anthem to begin with. Whatever, I was always aware of the inherent flaws to planeswalkers to begin with and Wizards apparently will never release any real enchantments whilst they're around. I never held the illusion they were ever on par with creatures, just the most relevant permanent type after creatures. Of course if I follow the path of value creatures, I think I'll just inevitably end up with Kiki-pod, a red combo-esque midrange deck. Note that I would have never had considered any planeswalker even as a afterthought if bloodbraid elf was still around. That guy makes Jace the Mindsculptor look silly. Thus I advise anyone still interested in my deck to cut at least 1 Sorin or abandon it altogether and probably ditch the Blade Spicers as well since there's no need for additional fodder bodies to make use of the emblems anymore. Perhaps I'm over reacting without actually testing to confirm my suspicions, but this is a stark reminder there's so many tools against control in modern that are never utilized, because there isn't a tier 1 control deck in modern.. or even legacy.

DragoFireheart
04-12-2013, 02:33 PM
Why do you not have Geist of Saint Traft somewhere in your 75?

You are running blue and white. I feel that if you are running blue and white and are not running Geist, you need a damned good reason not to.