[Deck]BUx Reanimator

[Kamus]

I'm currently playing this list:

4 underground sea
1 swamp
1 island
4 polluted delta
2 misty rainforest
2 verdant catacombs
4 lotus petal

4 griselbrand
1 sphynx of the steel wind
1 elesh norn
1 ashen rider

4 brainstorm
3 ponder
4 careful study
4 fow
4 daze
4 entomb
4 reanimate
4 exhume
2 thoughtseize
2 show and tell

I already tried to run the "petalless" version, but lotus petal is so GREAT in this deck that I just can't leave home without 4 petals in my MD. It speeds up the clock kill in 1 turn, witch is all I need to include it. I'm not using the green splash version, because it plays less fetchlands and petals.
I'm not sure if reanimator is a good choice for the current meta, full of shamans, karakas (and the new priest..) and the sideboard plan is definately the key to get this archetype to the success

[Stryfo]

I agree that sideboarding in this deck is key, but that also means not over-boarding. As far as being unable to deal with DRS, I easily won 3/4 of my games last week (actual fraction), on the draw, against a turn 1 resolved DRS. I also don't play petals, so it's not like I just went off on turn one, and I don't play SnT, so I had to use the yard. It's not that hard to play around, really. Karakas though is a bit tougher, but really if you draw 7 even if they drop karakas, you aren't in the worst shape.

[say no to scurvy]

http://mtgdecks.net/decks/view/96808

Couldn't help but notice and wonder about this list, what's the strategy for sideboarding in such a list?

[DoorDie]

I would suppose against white decks and anyone with Leyline of the Void you'd cut the Imps and Animate Dead's, and probably shave on Careful Study's and Exhumes or somesuch to bring in the Painter/Grindstone/City package. It's sort of like Show and Tell but with an instant win attached since Reanimator can have great difficulty in closing games out against Swords to Plowshares decks. Obviously you can also Entomb->Reanimate the Painter as one of the combo pieces, though I'm not sure you'd really want to do that over Griselbrand, possibly against Ensnaring Bridge.

I do like that it shows how flexible Reanimator can be besides just the stock U/B build.

[beebles]

I agree that sideboarding in this deck is key, but that also means not over-boarding. As far as being unable to deal with DRS, I easily won 3/4 of my games last week (actual fraction), on the draw, against a turn 1 resolved DRS. I also don't play petals, so it's not like I just went off on turn one, and I don't play SnT, so I had to use the yard. It's not that hard to play around, really. Karakas though is a bit tougher, but really if you draw 7 even if they drop karakas, you aren't in the worst shape.

It is pretty hard! Got to either have like Exhume and a way of dumping two fatties in one turn! Or two reanimates and two fatties! OR just hope they don't know what you are on! It can be done but it is a headache and you feel like you stole victory from the jaws of defeat when it happens!

I just was checking this page out to see if there is any hot anti containment priest deck. I am probably going to play this deck at the GP. Idk. Maybe Contagion?

Might just cut my radom massacre and random perish from the board for a couple of Contagions. I saw the suggestion of Rachet bomb. Waaay to slow in my opinion. Basically it cannot kill containment priest until turn 4. Idk maaaaybe slaughter Pact, although that one can be risky in a deck super tight on mana and in a combo deck that does not kill immediately.

[Stryfo]

@ Beebles :It's really not that hard though, unless they have additional pressure in the form of thoughtseize or counterspells, you get to sit and sculpt while their development is stunted from having to hold up extra mana every turn. That all said, having hapless researcher has been invalauble in my fight against the DRS, the instant speed of his ability and the ability to invest mana early makes the fight much easier.

As for hoping they don't know what I'm on, that's a real thing at a bigger event, but I've played the same deck at locals for ~6 years, almost everyone knows what I'm on now. I'm super excited to play at the GP where people won't know exactly what I'm on every round.

[DoorDie]

I just was checking this page out to see if there is any hot anti containment priest deck. I am probably going to play this deck at the GP. Idk. Maybe Contagion?

Might just cut my radom massacre and random perish from the board for a couple of Contagions. I saw the suggestion of Rachet bomb. Waaay to slow in my opinion. Basically it cannot kill containment priest until turn 4. Idk maaaaybe slaughter Pact, although that one can be risky in a deck super tight on mana and in a combo deck that does not kill immediately.

I think Thoughtseize is your best weapon full stop. Contagion seems too deep and narrow, Slaughter Pact too expensive. You'll be boarding in creature removal when the hate against us is mostly non-creature. Abrupt Decay is the all-purpose cleaner for hate, and Thoughtseize/Force should cover the rest outside of Leyline. Echoing Truth for Leyline if necessary.

Will we get blown out by Containment Priest? Yes, we will. It's a new card that looks sweet, so people will play it. Will this be any different than a blowout from Rest in Peace? In my opinion, no, not by a long shot. This cleric lets us continue investing in the graveyard until we are able to remove it while with RIP there is no more graveyard. Careful Study is infinitely worse under RIP while Entomb is uncastable (barring really sad deck thinning). We can play around the Priest by not going for the reanimation half of the combo until they tap out. Containment Priest does hose the Show and Tell plan, but I was never excited about Showing in random silver bullets anyway.

Best tech IMHO: 4x Thoughtseize and extra redundancy (add a fatty and play some number of Animate Dead) in the main. Abrupt Decay and Massacre in the sideboard. Could even maindeck some number of Abrupts. That will make non-D&T decks boarding in the Priest look almost foolish since any surprise they achieve (watch out for 1W mana open) will be vastly inferior to the tempo they can gain from a well-placed RIP. Granted, any and all hate is usually brought in against us, so 1-2 Priest might make sideboards alongside RIP if people find the slots for it.

[toor]

Having tested a bunch against DT with Priest and without. Priest is a million times better than RiP. Because DT usually has 0 instant speed interaction you can comfortably go off with AD -> RiP, Combo. RIP also made it so that your exhumes had no downside.

The matchup is miserable with Containment priest (passable if they aren't playing it). I doubt there will be much D&T anyways, but anyone who has access to CP will be playing them if they have done any testing.

I found that massacre was not great, dread of night was better and ratchet bomb was decent. The real problem was lack of decent fatty. Sphinx of Steel Wind was swords too much (also beaten by flier + mom). Aetherling was too slow. Grave titan was occaisonally just raced by fliers or equipment. Most of my success was fast comboing with Needle = karakas.

[FlyingSkull13]

so our answer to containment priest is speed?

[DoorDie]

so our answer to containment priest is speed?

Thoughtseize, Abrupt Decay, Force of Will.

To clarify my statements above, I wasn't referring to D&T but U/W/x builds like Miracles, Jeskai Delver, and Deathblade, which should be much more popular. I could see D&T wanting the Priest over RIP.

@toor
Have you tried Inkwell Leviathan? I heard that's likely our best target against them.

[toor]

I did not try Inkwell. I did try 5/8 shroud angel which was ok. Its not too hard for them to get 8 power with Brimaz/Mirran crusader. FWIW I don't have Tidespout in the 75. I can't imagine its better than sphinx of the steel wind, since both lose to swords.

Part of why I like dread of night, is that it helps you race after getting a fatty. If you reanimate a shroud dude you are almost always losing the race to whatever motley crew of idiots they have on board. You also need to keep MOM off the board because of containment priest (another reason its better than RIP against us).

---
At this point (NJ in 4 days) this is my second choice deck. If I can get the UR delver matchup to acceptable point (>60%) I will play it regardless of what I think D&T matchup.

[PirateKing]

Grafdigger's Cage is already a weak hate card against us, as it doesn't turn off our Careful Study or Entomb.
The only thing Containment Priest brings is a natural instant speed as well as being a creature, making it uncounterable either through Aether Vial or Cavern of Souls.
From what I've seen in my play testing is the weakest the card can be is in play. There it dies to AD & EE. The worst place it can be for us is in hand as a response.
I agree with DoorDie that 4x Thoughtseize along with other removal is best. Force them to flash it in with Thoughtseize and then counter it or destroy it the turn before you go for it.

[PirateKing]

I did not try Inkwell. I did try 5/8 shroud angel which was ok. Its not too hard for them to get 8 power with Brimaz/Mirran crusader. FWIW I don't have Tidespout in the 75. I can't imagine its better than sphinx of the steel wind, since both lose to swords.

Part of why I like dread of night, is that it helps you race after getting a fatty. If you reanimate a shroud dude you are almost always losing the race to whatever motley crew of idiots they have on board. You also need to keep MOM off the board because of containment priest (another reason its better than RIP against us).

---
At this point (NJ in 4 days) this is my second choice deck. If I can get the UR delver matchup to acceptable point (>60%) I will play it regardless of what I think D&T matchup.

If by swords you mean Swords to Plowshares, Inkwell Leviathan has shroud. Also it should be your go to card against D&T. If they can race it, they could have raced anything else. If they can't you win.

EDIT - Unless those rare times when they overextend and you knowingly throw a Elesh Norn into a Karakas just to clear the board. Don't take my absolutes as absolute. There will always be a case to get Griselbrand against D&T, but you know, not often.

[DoorDie]

Part of why I like dread of night, is that it helps you race after getting a fatty. If you reanimate a shroud dude you are almost always losing the race to whatever motley crew of idiots they have on board. You also need to keep MOM off the board because of containment priest (another reason its better than RIP against us).

---
At this point (NJ in 4 days) this is my second choice deck. If I can get the UR delver matchup to acceptable point (>60%) I will play it regardless of what I think D&T matchup.

I will give Dread of Night a looksee. I have (probably foolishly) written off the Death and Taxes matchup as our kryptonite and just pack the popular 2x Massacre.

U/R should be favorable, just have Sphinx somewhere in the 75 so you don't die to crackbacks.

[kingsey]

Vs ur match up..we aren't just going for Grisel game 2 as well? Also if we land elesh don't they loose as well since they have no creatures?

I remember playing sphinx back in the day but unsure if he's worth a spot?

[Force of Beard]

Vs ur match up..we aren't just going for Grisel game 2 as well? Also if we land elesh don't they loose as well since they have no creatures?

I remember playing sphinx back in the day but unsure if he's worth a spot?

VS UR I like
Elesh Norn- When they have a board and I have life to eat burn for a few turns. Some versions run Fireblast, so you need to be sure you are going to finish the game with her before you commit to a 5 turn clock
Iona on Red- When they do not have a board, going very low is obviously less dangerous with red cards off the table
Griselbrand- When I have Exhume to save life this is always the go-to, since it helps chain into a second threat/answer and is nigh unraceable. Even when you have to pay the 8 he is still top of the list early when you aren't sure which type of game you are going to play

The other guys
Sphinx- I ran one this weekend at SCG Columbus (mostly for this matchup). The upside he has over Griselbrand comes up when you need to be able to attack to not die to their board. Griselbrand is susceptible to the the old "bolt my own guy before damage" play. Sphinx's vigilance is much harder for them to race this way.
Grave Titan- I don't side him out. He kills as fast/faster unmolested than any creature we are allowed to reanimate, and you still need to maintain enough guys to keep SnT turned on.

[Nuke is Good]

I had a question for the mirror match, which I find rather challenging. Do you race for Iona/Blazing Archon but hold your cards until you have all the pieces in your hand to combo out or attempt to show and tell? I'd rather not use Karakas since the card is not tutorable and might be a 1 of that ends up doing nothing during the match.


I thought of Sheoldred, Whispering one but the card does nothing against Sneak and Show when they are on their red based plan.

[Stryfo]

@toor: I don't know how the UR matchup isn't sure, it's ridiculously easy pre-board and still good post board. They have only daze and FoW, no stifles, no wastelands (some are moving back though). Just play around daze and your average hands will get there most of the time.

out of the 6 or 7 matches and 15 or so random pre and post board games I've played against UR delver, I lost one match and won most of the pre and post board games, even when they stuck a turn 1 grafdiggers cage. It's a REALLY good matchup.

@Nuke: a lot of people play coffin purge as a mirror breaker. Archon is not the best creature, Iona isn't generally either. The best guys are tidespout tyrant and Griselbrand.

[toor]

@toor: I don't know how the UR matchup isn't sure, it's ridiculously easy pre-board and still good post board. They have only daze and FoW, no stifles, no wastelands (some are moving back though). Just play around daze and your average hands will get there most of the time.

out of the 6 or 7 matches and 15 or so random pre and post board games I've played against UR delver, I lost one match and won most of the pre and post board games, even when they stuck a turn 1 grafdiggers cage. It's a REALLY good matchup.

@Nuke: a lot of people play coffin purge as a mirror breaker. Archon is not the best creature, Iona isn't generally either. The best guys are tidespout tyrant and Griselbrand.

I was testing against builds with Wastelands and submerges. I roughly agree if people play completely stock that the matchup is fine.

[Squirrel]

So, i played on Praque Eternal Main Event (144), and i was sold on Reanimator. I played a little different list, here it goes:

1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

4 Griselbrand

1 Daze

1 Misdirection

4 Brainstorm

4 Entomb

4 Force of Will

2 Show and Tell

3 Thoughtseize

4 Ponder

4 Careful Study

4 Exhume

4 Reanimate

2 Animate Dead

1 Island

1 Swamp

1 Verdant Catacombs

2 Misty Rainforest

1 Flooded Strand

4 Polluted Delta

4 Underground Sea

1 Tidespout Tyrant

1 Bayou

1 Tropical Island

SB: 2 Show and Tell

SB: 2 Massacre

SB: 2 Pithing Needle

SB: 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Ashen Rider

SB: 3 Abrupt Decay

SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers

SB: 1 Disfigure


I decided for the 16 land version because it could actually cast more business better and grinding out an win in postboard games and was overall more stable than the lotus petal version)

R1 Elves
G1 Im Paired against Patrick, and the Game ends when i eot entomb after seeing forest, fetch, zenith and Reanimate Elesh.

G2 He starts and thoughtseizes my entomb and therapying something else. He then floods the board with till turn 42 lands, 2 dryad and 3 elves, without having any cards in hand.
Turn 5 he flashbacks therapy, an das hes calling fow i knew he drew a order which then hoofs me.
G3 I disfigure his Deathrite, fow his glimpse: He doesn’t draw disruption, and i need to fow a elvish visionary to stop his glimpse and mana production while he has 2 natural order in hand. Elesh Norn pumps the grisel already in play since turn 2 which kills him from 9 life.

2-1
1-0

R2 Elves
G1 Im playing against Petyr, and he starts with an quirion, so i entomb elesh and exhume her..
G2 I Draw Elesh, so i Turn 2 Iona instead wins the race against his board of 2 1/1

2-0
2-0

R3 Team America
Im playing against Pavel.
G1 A Hymn hits both of my Reanimation Spells, so delver kills me before i recover.
G2 i thoughtseize and see Delver, extraction, pierce, pulse, bayou, misty goyf.
I take the extraction and play a Needle into his Spell Pierce, he pierces it so i can entomb and reanimate while grisel draws the fow for the pulse. I also disfigure his delver and decay his goyf at 4 life, winning the race and reanimating goyf before my last hit to be safe against lilli or other removal.
G3 goes back and forth, with a lilli entering play, getting needled and then the needle decayed, also 2 deathrite and annoying me. There are 2 Key situations in this game. At one Point he dazed with his tropical, so deathrite ist without green, and at another he taps his deathrite for lilli, so i can win (my hand is careful study, show and tell, reanimate, exhume, ponder) with an thoughtseize taking his fow before, but i don’t see a creature in both scenarios or an entomb for tidespout/ashen rider which would have turned the game. I die without seeing any creatures.

1-2
2-1

R4 Alex with UR Delver
So im playing against a friend. We both know what each other is on, and while i’m happy about the matchup, i fear Alex is running hot this weekend.
G1 I start with Entomb and reanimate and double Exhume as well as 2 lands and something else.
I Entomb in my mainphase, for grisel and the first exhume resolves. Well i’d take it.

G2 Brings me down to 10 pretty quickly, but show and tell elesh norn, the board clearer.
2-0
3-1

R5 UR Delver
G1I’m playing against Valentin. While i needed to mull to six before, mulling to 5 is less exciting.
I keep Force, Ponder, Brainstorm, Entomb Reanimate. When i draw my first land, a fucking swamp, alex has revealed that he likes to treasure cruise, which he did twice with the help of aggressive cantripping, also playing Thought scour. Daze get’s my entomb. He even thought scours me to get information, but doesn’t bin a creature, while i need do discard cards, failing to even draw a creature to discard or another land for blue, while bolts and chain lightnings me with 2 snapcaster beats to kill me. Weird Game.
G2 I think he’s on Ur Delver, but he’s more on a counterheavy variant without monastery swiftspear, but snapcaster and an overall more Dreadstill like gameplan. I didn’t board in bosejiu against this, which i should have, and die against his relic of progenitus i need to decay, giving delver and his mass of counters enough time to finish me off. He really cruises the deck to victory, always discarding cards at his endstep because of his full hand.

3-2
R6 Burg Delver
At this point i didn’t write any names, sry for that.

G1 A Grisel takes it all why he refuses to scoop, drawing delvers to block and making the game longer to see more of my deck:

G2 Thoughtseize get’s me pretty hard, and i decay a goyf to buy time. He play an Deathrite while i’m on 10 life, and i ponder of tropical (!)and see decay, reanimate fetch. i can’t decay the deathrite because i tapped my trop (bad play )with 2 useas in play, and i can’t reanimate the grisel in the yard, because then i’m on 8 and deathrite kills me when he untaps, next turn 2 other deathrite seal the deal.

G3 im getting a needle on deathrite and a carpet of flowers, but i can’t find a creature or get it in the yard and die to double delver.

1-2
3-3

R7 UR Helm of Awakening Counterbalance deck.
G1 I play against a guy and know what he’s playing because i saw him on the feature match.
I thoughtseize him and take fow leaving him wit bstorm, snappy and lands, but he slams counterbalance from the top of his deck while i entomb grisel.
Next turn i reanimate, he prays , looks in the sky and shouts „Sensei“. We flip and he has Sensei’s divining Top. I locks me out and i concede after 2 rounds.

G2 Finally, Bosejiu time. Turn1 Ponder, Turn 2 thoughtseize, take whatever, boesjiu.
Turn 3 Show and Tell Grisel. He scoops
G3 His helm of awakening shuts of casting my exhume uncounterable with bosejiu through his hand of flusters and forces, so i have to use show and tell ☺ He Scoopes facing the 7/7 lifelinker.

2-1
4-3

Round 8 Elves
Im paired against Julian Knab, which i know from local tournaments (and internet fame) but it’s nice to get him to know me ☺

We start trashtalking a lot, and he jokes of his last tournament where he lost twice to Reanimator. I pokerface as much as possible.

G1 I lay down a Misty Rainforest, he does whatever and i can’t stop grining while entombing for elesh. He asks if i can reanimate, i show him reanimate, we’re off to game 2

G2. Where again just shuffling and joking with other people around, it’s really funny.
He has a Deathrite and a Untapper with a fetchland in grave and „taps out“ thinking he can get me.(at least i thought he thinks that way^^) I have the nuts and decay his deathrite, Entomb, reanimate, show that i dont habe elesh in hand, he scoops.

2-0
5-3


So 5-3 in the end, the deck was a blast to play and cutted through the whole ur delver/elves meta rather nicely, but i didn’t face white decks at all.

Probs:
Nice opponents
Nice players and friends to talk with during the rounds.
Always having at minimum 20 minutes left on the clock for a break.
People lending me cards for my deck so that i could play! Thank you!
Elesh and Grisel being badass
Partying in Praque,
.
.
.
Cons:
I should have done much better.
I only drew seven of Grisel once! And i love that feeling.

I hope there aren't any mistakes, i only have notes of the life and thoughtseize hands i wrote down. Thanks for reading

[Omega87]

I play the good old UB list, but i struggle when playing against stoneblade. StoP, counters and a fast clock seems really tough. How do you guys manage to win against this deck?

[Darksteel]

After mulling over different options, I've settled on the green splash with Show and Tell for the GP tomorrow.

4 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn

4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Island

Board:
3 Show and Tell
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Pithing Needle
2 Massacre
1 Duress
1 Grave Titan
1 Abrupt Decay

I like the mixture of Abrupt Decay and Show and Tell that did well in an Open recently. For the people on the abrupt decay plan, what do you guys typically cut for them in games 2 and 3? Should I also run a Tropical Island? I don't know if I want to cut another fetchland.

[cogitoergosum]

After mulling over different options, I've settled on the green splash with Show and Tell for the GP tomorrow.

4 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn

4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Island

Board:
3 Show and Tell
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Pithing Needle
2 Massacre
1 Duress
1 Grave Titan
1 Abrupt Decay

I like the mixture of Abrupt Decay and Show and Tell that did well in an Open recently. For the people on the abrupt decay plan, what do you guys typically cut for them in games 2 and 3? Should I also run a Tropical Island? I don't know if I want to cut another fetchland.

With the decrease of waste and stifle, I think you could run 3 seas instead of cutting a fetch to make room for the trop. Another option would be to go to 15 lands and 3 petals.

Also I think 3 AD is plenty. Siding them in is always matchup dependent, but they will often come in place of daze on the draw, maybe a thoughtseize or two on the play.

I like your list, with deathrite also on the decline I think moving all the shows to the side is a great call. Do you ever miss them g1?

[LeePerry]

I play the good old UB list, but i struggle when playing against stoneblade. StoP, counters and a fast clock seems really tough. How do you guys manage to win against this deck?

I just picked up Reanimator after playing Tin Fins and MonoR Sneak Attack for a year, and I was wondering if splashing Red for Rabblemaster in the sideboard might be a better plan B against miracles, stoneblade and other control decks which are pretty rampant here.

I would take out a single S&T from the sideboard, but keep the 2 City of Traitors, since they work well with the Rabblemasters, and it can definitely keep opponents guessing how to sideboard, since most soft counters are complete blanks against the goblins, and an unprepared opponent banking on GY hate (also abundant here) might find himself with too many dead cards in his or her deck before finding a solution to the rabblemaster (1+6+8 damage over 3 turns can be more then enough to take out an opponent, especially if they still have to keep in account your possibility to reanimate - which never leaves the deck)

Any thoughts? or am I taking it too far?

[Nuke is Good]

I went 5-3 at GPNJ today with UBg. Strongest performance I've ever had in a Magic tournament. I'll post a bootleg report later. 8 rounds is brutal on the mind.

I had Punishing Jund and Shortcake Painter ready for this but I saw a LOOOOOT of burn and UR Delver which scared me away from using both decks.

Decklist:

Main Deck (60)
Creatures (7)
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells (37)
2 Lotus Petal
2 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
1 Animate Dead
2 Daze
4 Exhume
2 Show and Tell
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
Lands (16)
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
Sideboard (15)
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Flusterstorm
2 Dread of Night
2 Duress
2 Pithing Needle
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Show and Tell
1 Grave Titan
1 Sire of Insanity

First of all, it isn't Sultai. I'll call it BUG if cards from Khans make a serious impact on the deck. I didn't call Aggro Loam Jund until BBE was a thing.

Round 1: LED Dredge (Misplays: The match!)

G1 Didn't think he was dredge when he decided to go first, until I saw faithless looting. I decide to go for the kill I see his Grave Troll in the yard and....decide to animate dead it, didn't read that his power and toughness depended on what was in MY yard. Misplay #1. So my dredge opponent starts doing his G1 antics and dread returns a griselbrand. He was dredging pretty aggressively and he actually accidentally decked himself out since he only had high dredgers in the yard and still had 4 cards left to draw from Russel Brand only to have 2 cards in the deck left.

SB: -4 Exhume +2 Show and Tell +1 Chain of Vapor +1 Flusterstorm (I didn't know what to bring in)

G2
For some reason he was able to constantly cabal therapy stripping my hand even after forcing 3 times. He was able to bring out 8 zombies overpowering my Empyrial Archangel and attacking for lethal with a dread returned Flame Kin.

G3
Elesh Norn on turn 1. He was trying to dig for answers but didn't. Victory

1-0

Round 2 Goblins
He drops down a rabblemaster. On my first turn I careful studied into Griselbrand and reanimated it. Next turn he starts dropping chalices. I dig twice forced his first one but he drops another one. I get beat to death by goblin tokens.
SB: -4 Reanimate -1 Careful Study +2 Show and Tell +3 Abrupt Decay
Game 2
I kept a hand with 3 of my abrupt decays. He chalices on 1 so I respond by entombing elesh norn. My next turn I abrupt decay it. His next turn he brings down another chalice. This repeats until I run out of abrupt decays. I force his RIP. Then came the coup de grace, the dropped a magus of the moon. I had no response.

1-1 I thought this was an easy matchup...guess not

Round 3 UWR Miracles

G1 I have no idea what deck he was this game. All I saw was a snapcaster mage and a Vendillion clique beat me to death while he forced and spell pierced me to oblivion.
SB: -1 Daze +1 Flusterstorm
G2 I see he brings down a Tundra so I'm assuming he is packing STP and . I baited a griselbrand in the yard the turn before and attempted to reanimate so he forced it, instead i show and tell an Iona on white. Riding it to Victory. He dropped a top so I can guess what he was playing.
SB: -2 Daze +1 Flusterstorm -3 Careful Study +3 Abrupt Decay
G3 I thoughtseized him seeing he has RIP so I take it away. In my INFINITE wisdom I allowed his Counterbalance Top Lock to actually happen. Show and Tell an Empyrial Archangel. He was digging a few turns with the top so he fetches since he wasn't happy, so this was my chance to abrupt decay forcing him to shuffle the top away buying me a turn. Little did I know he managed to get another one. The archangel brings the pain, in a last ditch effort he cliques me only to see a thoughtseize but I still win in the end.

2-1

Round 4 UWR Delver...The fastest loss I can think of
G1 Three turns straight he wastelands me. So I'm stuck with a hand of nothing. I get beat to death by delvers.
-2 Reanimate -1 Animate Dead -1 Griselbrand -2 Careful Study +2 Abrupt Decay +1 Flusterstorm +1 Show and Tell +2 Dread of Night
G2 He was packing more permission than I was. I try Show and Telling my Archangel into play. Forced, pierced, and he flusterstormed my flustterstorm. Then came the real kick in the balls. He attacks me with a SFM with a sword (I think Feast and Famine) which makes me discard and he untaps his lands. On that single turn he drops RIP and Containment priest. I abrupt decay the priest . Next turn he attacks again..and brings down two more priests.

2-2 Oh how I wish I had Jund for that match

Round 5 Elves

G1 Elesh Norn turn 2 next
SB: -1 Tidespout Tyrant +1 Duress -2 Daze +2 Show and Tell -2 Exhume +2 Abrupt Decay
G2: He turn 2 Nat Orders. I kept a hand that would have turned 2 since I had petals, SnT, and Elesh Norn. So that gamble failed.
G3: He cabal therapies all my reanimation strategies. So that buys him time to durdle around and kill me with craterhoof.

2-3 Supposed to be an easy match but the better pilot won

Round 6 Merfolk U/W

G1: He drops a Lord of Atlantis. I drop Iona on Blue, doesn't seem too phased by it which boggled me. Then he drops some U/W land that doesn't untap if he reveals a Merfolk and I realized...noooo STP. No STP thankfully 7/7 Flyer beating down to win.
-2 Reanimate +2 Show and Tell
G2: He drops some weird Merfolk from Apocalypse that was turning my Sea into a basic plains. I drop Iona on Blue again and win.

3-3 First time I've seen that deck and it was U/W. Weird. Nice guy though. Players are starting to get visibly tired.

Round 7 UR...no wait Grixis Delver

G1: I'm convinced he was UR delver at this point. I reanimate Elesh Norn (ouch) and he kept bolting me. But strangely enough Elesh Norn was a good enough clock for victory.
-4 Reanimate +2 Show and Tell +1 Flusterstorm +1 Abrupt Devay
G2: Cabal Therapy yada yada raping my hand. I animate dead an empyrial Archangel stalling me a turn. This part I think I should have called a judge. He said he was gonna cast treasure cruise, revealed the card but didn't pay, and he took it back and cabal therapyed me taking my third show and tell. I had no answers for the rest of the game.
G3: I'm on the show and tell plan. But I entomb griselbrand. I thoughtseized him seeing he has only a pyroblast. So I use my first Snt to get blasted. Next turn I drop down Elesh Norn for Victory.

4-3 Where was UR Mania besides on the featured tables?

Round 8 RUG Delver

G1 I reanimate a Griselbrand and he scoops
-4 Reanimate +2 Show and Tell +1 Abrupt Decay +1 Flusterstorm
G2 He stifled me twice giving him the lead. I get burned to death.
G3 I show and tell a Griselbrand but this time he has delvers on the fields. I reanimate an Iona on Red for good measure and I get the win.

5-3 RIP Mongoose. He cut them for TC.

MVP Cards:
Iona, no matter what people say this is maindeckable for me.
Russel Brand: It's not a silver bullet but damn it works
Empyrial Archangel: Having that redirect damage ability is so sweet
Show and Tell: Always have a Plan B

Not so MVPs:
Abrupt Decay: Its uncounterable sure, but my manabase is incredibly shaky.
Sire of Insanity: I've seen how powerful it is on turn 1 but otherwise it's meh. I don't think it goes well in a non 4 petal build. Never used it once today, probably would have if I encountered storm.
Dread of Night: Next to me every round was Death and Taxes. Deep down I was sighing in relief that I didn't have to deal with them.
Tidespout Tyrant: Same deal. I used it to pitch to force lol.
Pithing Needle: Didn't use it, didn't draw it in elves
Duress: Didn't use it, probably could have used it in elves
Grave Titan: Didn't use it no edict decks around


I can't bring myself to cut Dazes altogether. Reanimator is pretty light on blue cards and we need them to pitch to force.

[PirateKing]

Went 6-3 at GPNJ, losing to BUG Delver twice and UW Blade. I'll edit this post in the morning with my list and thoughts on it. All in all, everything went as expected, bad matchups were bad and good matchups were easy.

[DoorDie]

Very encouraging scores, fellas, especially at such a large event. Let's keep them dreading the graveyard!


I just picked up Reanimator after playing Tin Fins and MonoR Sneak Attack for a year, and I was wondering if splashing Red for Rabblemaster in the sideboard might be a better plan B against miracles, stoneblade and other control decks which are pretty rampant here.

I would take out a single S&T from the sideboard, but keep the 2 City of Traitors, since they work well with the Rabblemasters, and it can definitely keep opponents guessing how to sideboard, since most soft counters are complete blanks against the goblins, and an unprepared opponent banking on GY hate (also abundant here) might find himself with too many dead cards in his or her deck before finding a solution to the rabblemaster (1+6+8 damage over 3 turns can be more then enough to take out an opponent, especially if they still have to keep in account your possibility to reanimate - which never leaves the deck)

Any thoughts? or am I taking it too far?

I am adamantly against City of Traitors since we have so few colorless symbols maindeck to spend the mana on, so I'm already biased here. I don't think Rabblemaster by itself pulls enough weight in Legacy to justify its cmc or the red splash.

If we're going to do something transformative then bringing in a Delver/True-Name package with a bit more discard (something like 4x Delver/3x TNN/2x Duress) should work in principle, though I'd be surprised if it hasn't been tried before.

Anyone have experience with this kind of transformation into a normalized game?

[Darksteel]

I ended up going 5-3 at the Grand Prix. It was definitely fun, and I’m glad I decided to go. Obviously making day 2 would have been great, but sometimes you just get unlucky or misplay. Variance is a thing.

I ended up going with the 4th Ponder over the 4th Thoughtseize.

4 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Island

3 Show and Tell
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pithing Needle
2 Massacre
1 Ashen Rider
1 Grave Titan
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress

Here’s a brief report:

Round 1: Bye

Round 2: Bye

Round 3: Beat Reanimator 2-1. I have no idea how to play the mirror, and luckily, neither did my opponent. I managed to simply have the Thoughtseizes at the right time to reanimate his things, like Iona and Griselbrand.

Round 4: Lost to Storm 0-2. Game 1 I just didn’t hit a Force of Will after drawing 14 off of Griselbrand.

Game 2 was so much draw go since we both used early discard. He just kept drawing Cabal Rituals and I kept drawing crap. Eventually, I misplay and get an Iona with Entomb to try to reanimate and learn he has Karakas.

Round 5: Beat Sneak and Show 2-0. Both my wins involved using his Griselbrand by discarding it to Thoughtseize.

Round 6: Beat Dark Maverick 2-1. Game 1 was turn two Elesh Norn on the play against some Deathrite Shamans. Iona followed to seal the deal. Game 2 I got super blown out by Containment Priest. I totally walked into it. Game 3, I managed to Thoughtseize myself and reanimate Griselbrand while he was tapped out and proceeded to win from there.

Round 7: Lost to UWR Delver 1-2. Game 1, he cantrips and Dazes a lot of my spells, but I eventually get a Griselbrand into play and Force his removal and Treasure Cruises. Game 2, he has a lot of counters, plus a Grafdigger’s Cage. I drew very poorly and just couldn’t find my Abrupt Decays or Show and Tells. Game 3, he mulls to 4, but my hand was kinda sketchy. I miss with my cantrips, and he resolves 2 Grafdigger’s Cages in one turn. I have the Decay for one, but the other ends up beating me as I just couldn’t find anything to stop it or get around it without it being countered by his grip full of Dazes, Flusterstorm, and Red Elemental Blasts.

Round 8: Lost to Death and Taxes 1-2. Game 1, I keep a hand with multiple cantrips and reanimation spells and fail to assemble the combo while his Brimaz and Thalia eventually beat me down. Game 2 I get the turn one reanimation on a Griselbrand and he never finds his Karakas or Swords.

Game 3, He gets out a Containment Priest and Stoneforge Mystic, which I manage to Massacre away. I then have the chance to either Show and Tell a Griselbrand or Iona into play, or Entomb and Exhume a creature. I know he has Batterskull and Rest in Peace in hand, along with one unknown card (his draw). He also has a tapped Karakas in play, along with two open mana. I decide to try and Entomb and Exhume a Tidespout Tyrant, since his only way to punish me is a second Containment Priest. Naturally, he drew it and I pretty much lose from there, since he Wastelands me and cuts me off of Show and Tell. So, shitty luck but hey, it happens.

Ultimately, I was pleased with the deck. It has so much raw power. The Abrupt Decays were okay, overall. I wouldn't say I'm big on them yet. I still need to work on my sideboarding for sure, regardless. It's hard making cuts for Show and Tell AND Abrupt Decays.

Being on the play in game 1 is such a ridiculous advantage.

Also, fuck Containment Priest. lol

[toor]

I audibled to UR Delver despite winning 1.5K a couple of weeks ago. This meant that I had an extra reanimator deck on me to lend to a friend who initially wasn't planning on playing legacy at all. He hasn't played legacy in 4 years and his only games with reanimator were the night before with random people in our hotel lobby. My version was very different than the normal and much harder to play. So I built a "newbie" friendly version for the GP. It had 0 testing, though I have played 30+ sanction matches in the last 2 months.

He cashed going 11-4 with 0 byes. He absolutely punted one round (real life misclick involving careful study in round 1) and made a couple small mistakes, but overall I was impressed with what I think of as the speed optimized version. He could easily have been 13-2/14-1 with perfect play (hard for anyone).

Deck 60
Griselbrand 3
Iona, Shield of Emeria 1
Elesh Norn 1
Grave Titan 1
Tidespout Tyrant 1

Ponder 4
Careful Study 4
Brainstorm 4
Duress 2
Entomb 4
Reanimate 4

Force of Will 3 (we only had 3)
Exhume 2
Abrupt Decay 2
Animate Dead 2
Thoughtseize 4

Lotus Petal 3 (also only had 3)
Bayou 1
Fetch 7
Tropical Island 1
Underground Sea 4
Island 1
Swamp 1

SB: 15
Abrupt Decay 2
Ratchet Bomb 1
Tormod's Crypt 2
Pithing Needle 3
Massacre 2
Angel of Despair 1
Wipe Away 1
Disfigure 1
Show and Tell 2

----------
Here is the version I was playing for the last few months.

Deck 60
Griselbrand 3
Iona, Shield of Emeria 1
Elesh Norn 1
Grave Titan 1

Thoughtseize 4
Ponder 4
Show and Tell 2
Brainstorm 4
Flusterstorm 1
Entomb 4
Reanimate 4
Dig through Time 2
Force of Will 3
Exhume 2
Abrupt Decay 2
Dimir Charm 1
Animate Dead 2


Lotus Petal 3
Bayou 1
Fetch 8
Tropical Island 1
Underground Sea 4
Island 1
Swamp 1
SB: 15
Abrupt Decay 2
Disfigure 1
Jace the Mind Sculptor 1
Pithing Needle 2
Massacre 1
Aetherling 1
Duress 2
Wipe Away 1
Dread of Night 1
Bayou 1
VClique 1
Ratchet Bomb 1

This version plays out much more like a control deck. And basically isn't 0 outed to anything no matter how random your opponent's crap is (I have beaten g1 RiP, Leyline, CB lock etc...). DtT is an absolute bomb in this deck and I played 3 for a while. Unfortunately UR delver is too fast for that card (the 3 color delver variants are actually easier to beat, even accounting for deathright).

[MountainGo]

Darksteel were you using the dark blue KMC HyperMatts?

I went 4-3 with this list

4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
1 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona
1 Elesh Norn
1 Tidespout Tyrant
2 Dark Ritual
1 Lotus Petal
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Marsh Flats
1 Island
1 Swamp

2 Show and Tell
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pithing Needle
2 Massacre
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Echoing Truth
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Aetherling


R1 Ur delver 2-1
First game i blew him out, second he blew me out, third was very close with me taking a risk at the end attacking him when he had 2 swiftspears, an unflipped delver, a pyromancer and some tokens but he wasnt able to draw enough spells off of treasure cruise for lethal
R2 Omnitell 2-0
Early Iona on blue both games
R3 Reanimator 1-2
99.5% sure i played against darksteel
R4 Ant 2-0
Griselbrand & counters game 1, Sire of Insanity game 2, should have actually went for Iona though Sire is dangerous vs a deck with past in flames if not put in play turn 1 or 2
R5 Miracles 1-2
Iona won game 1 pretty easy, games 2 and 3 were miserable, my lack of sleep the last few days was starting to show also, couple boneheaded plays
R6 Patriot 2-1
Dont really remember how these games went
Patriot 1-2
Game 1 i thoutseized and reanimated his true name, countered and thoughtseizes him to death while i rode it the whole way, games 2 & 3 he had to much pressure and hate

Im going to have to adjust my sideboard for Miracles some more, that matchup is terrible

[Gilderbarin216]

Played in the GP last weekend, had a great time seeing people and playing the deck in particular. I think in a filed of UR delver, burn and UWR stoneblade decks, we are very well placed to run the field. I played something similar to the list i had been playing for months, and was content with every slot. I was so happy with how the deck performed actually, that i wouldn't change a card. Anyway, I played this:

4 griselbrand
1 Iona, shield of emeria
1 tidespout tyrant
1 elesh norn, grand cenobyte

3 lotus petal
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
4 thoughtsieze
1 duress
4 careful study
4 entomb
4 reanimate
4 exhume
3 daze
4 force of will

4 polluted delta
3 verdant catacombs
4 underground sea
1 tropical island
1 bayou
2 swamp

Board:
4 abrupt decay
2 pithing needle
2 torymods crypt
2 duress
1 massacre
1 disfigure
1 sire of insanity
1 empyrial archangel
1 Aetherling

Some notes on cards:
Decay: fantastic as always, always did what i wanted, was often good when not killing graveyard-hate, and was easy to cast every time.

Duress: The main board duress was much better than the daze would have I'd imagine. Daze was the worst card in the deck, and actively feels that way. The duress helped to push though your combo against miracles, ur delver, and other stoneblade decks as well, where daze wouldn't actually hit anything.

2 Swamps: Island didn't cut it with the main deck duress, and the 2 others off the board. With the trop in the deck, i don't think we can afford another non-boac source with this configuration. Often you want to play a discard spell the turn that you go for the reanimate, and i was often at a loss to do that because of the island.

Tyrant: Still good, was actively the threat i got in a majority of my game ones. The fact that it gets REB'd is a little dangerous, but the card controlled the game through a multitude of things. Karakas game one was a big thing, and as long as you save the force for a swords to plowshares, tyrant often goes un-answered.

Disfigure: was like a 5th decay often. Killed a priest and a deathrite, so i can't as for much more. The split between this and massacre was awesome, as massacre is a sorcery, and only really good v the death and taxes strategies, and disfigure covers all creature matchups.

Sire: Very good against storm. Died too often in that matchup even with iona and a bunch of forces. Sire was good early in almost every midrange matchup, and was absurd on the play against storm.

Empyrial archangel: Was awesome. Killed a death and taxes player single-handedly through 3 swords, a karakas and a sword of light and shadow. Also won like 3 games against ur delver, where I'm not sure if another threat would have done the job. If i had reanimated griselbrand, i would have been burned out, so that was cool.

Aetherling: Killed 2 miracles players through terminus, swords and karakas. One opponent after seeing in on the board just concededed from like 20 life and top Karakas in play. Showed me double red blast and swords to my 3 open blue sources.

Not much more to say. Played all 15 rounds, had two buys, and went x-5. List was very good for the field. Lost to Miracles twice with both relic and clique in the main, bug delver, mud and conceded to lands instead of a draw. If the metagame shifts back away from the delver decks (Which i don't think it will), i would like to try something like a 4th ponder and maybe 2 dig through times. Until then though, discard spells are the real deal. Often you will board out the forces and dazes against the delver decks and miracles, and they die with 2 pyroclasts in hand. Feels good to be a non-blue combo deck after board. Anyway, ill leave you with this: Mud is definitely not a good matchup.

Thoughtsiezed my opponent on the play, and see chalice, chalice, three sphere, metalworker, ancient tomb, grim monolith, platinum angel. I take his angel, force his chalice, and reanimate his angel. He draws bridge, and plays chalice on one after monolith. We can't attack him to the point where he draws Karn Liberated for my angel, and his bridge. Then he plays cavern on his blight steel and i die. To be fair, i don't think that mud is that large of a threat to commit board cards to the matchup, but goddamn is turn one platinum angel sweet. :)

[Meester Roboto]

I played at GPNJ this weekend. Didn't pilot Reanimator on day one. Went 6-0, 0-3 to scrub out 6-3.

I Did play Reanimator in the Legacy Super Sunday Series (480 players).

I went 7-1, 0-2 and missed top 16 in the last round for a total of 7-3

List for reference:

Creatures (7):

3x Griselbrand
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Ashen Rider


Spells (37):

4x Entomb
4x Exhume
4x Reanimate
2x Show and Tell

4x Careful Study
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder

4x Force of Will
3x Daze
3x Lotus Petal
2x Thoughtseize


Lands (16):

1x Island
2x Swamp
2x Verdant Catacombs
2x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea
1x Tropical Island


SB (15):

1x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Auger
1x Ashen Rider
1x Spell Pierce
2x Thoughtseize
2x Pithing Needle
2x Show and Tell
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Massacre
1x Bayou



Games:


Round 1 - Omni Tell - 2-1

G1
Not much going on. He combos on turn two on the play.

G2
I cast thought seize on turn 1 to see his mulligan (to 5) hand of 3 fetch lands, a show and tell and a ponder. Turn 2 I reanimate Iona.

G3
Turn one Iona.



Round 2 - Death and Taxes - 2-1

G1
I have to show and tell a sphinx of the steel wind into play and hope it gets there as I had nothing. It got there as he drew zero answers.

G2
Not really sure what happened. Notes are poor. My life total dropped to 0 though. I do remember reanimating two ashen riders to nuke two Karakas, but they both got STPed.

G3
I reanimated an ashen rider to nuke a Karakas, and then reanimated again to sweeten the deal for the game.



Round 3 - Don't remember - 2-1

The only thing I have written down are 3 games worth of life totals and the words "Ponder" and "fluster storm." I won game one and game 3. Game 1 looks pretty one sided and game 3 looks to have ended in a concession after I reanimated.


Round 4 - Storm - 1-2

This match! G1 I thought seize his hand to reveal mostly junk and an infernal tutor. took the tutor and then reanimated on the next turn and he dies shortly after without doing anything.
G2 I mulled to 3 and did literally nothing. G3 I was able to reanimate GBrizzle and get into a spot where I am at 23 and he is at 11. I thought seized a tutor out of his hand leaving him with 2 dark rituals and nothing else. He top decks a past in flames and ends up being able to tendrils me for 24. It was sort of nuts.


Round 5 - UWR Delver - 2-0

G1
this game was very interactive. I reanimated Gbrizzel with two delvers on the other side of the field. He quickly gets a stone forge and batter skull online and we start trading life points. I eventually realize that I can't race his damage and life gain with just one Griselbrand and decide to give it vigilance by show and telling a second copy from my hand into play to block after attacks. This gives me the advantage I need to pull slightly ahead. I use the vigilance trick again by exhuming the Grisebrand in the yard back into play to block more. Eventually pull out way ahead and he loses his delvers to chump blocks and ends up without blockers.

G2 looks like we traded spells for a bit and I reanimated Grisebrand at 4 life. Looks like my Grisebrand raced his batter skull to victory.


Round 6 - UR Delver - 2-1

G1
On the draw and cant counter turn one delver. Have to reanimate and go to 9. Some how wound up at 6 and getting double bolted before I could gain life.

G2
Not really sure. My life total stayed at 20, their life total didn't. Pretty sure I reanimated Elesh Norn and after a few draws my opponent had no outs and we went to game 3.

G3
Looks like I took a delver hit on turn 2 and then brought back a Grislebrand and my opponent conceded stating he had no outs.


Round 7 - Storm - 2-1

G1
Drew a hand of 2x petal reanimate and entomb. On the play. Went for it and reanimated Griselbrand. Opponent drew one card and conceded.

G2
I cast a thought seize. Reanimated a creature. got stormed out.

G3
Reanimate turn 1 Iona. Opponent choses to cast a cantrip instead of chain of vapor. I cast thought seize to take the chain of vapor and then brought on the angel beats (only had black spells he couldn't cast!).


Round 8 - UR Delver - 2-0

G1
Griselbrand is much better then delver.

G2
right as we were about to start trading blue spells so we could resolve our spells, my opponent resolves ponder by putting the first card in his hand. He immediately removes it and calls a judge on himself. Game loss. Match Loss.


Round 9 - BUG Delver - 0-2

G1
I mull to 4 and he mulls to 5. His mull to 5 was perfect as it had Turn one delver and then more land, cantrips and the single daze he needed to counter my reanimate for Griselbrand.

G2
No Land mull to 5 and he has double tarmogoyf and I was not able to resolve my important spells.


Round 10 - Storm - 1-2

G1
I knew this kid was on storm. My opening hand was Brainstorm, Force, Entomb, Reanimate, Fetch land, underground sea, and Iona. I was thinking its a great hand. Brainstorm the iona back to my library and entomb it and reanimate it on turn 2 and life would be great. He's on the play and turn one duresses me. I force it and thought seize him and remove a tutor from his hand (which is stacked with rituals). I eventually get to untap and entomb/reanimate Griselbrand since iona is stuck in my hand. With griselbrand in play he puts me on have force or die when he casts grim tutor with 6 floating. I drew 7 to go to 3. didn't draw force. got stormed out.

G2
Not much happens. Demon beats. Was at a life total impossible to storm out with his hand.

G3
After a few turns of cantrips and discard, I reanimate iona. He then naturally draws his one of Karakas and then proceeds to storm me out. Im Sad.



All in all a pretty good tourney. 7-3 was good enough for 27th and about a box worth of prizes. Having two Ashen Riders in the board was pretty nice if only to make me not worry about any pesky permanents like Karakas. I feel like I got luck sacked by storm, but thus ls life. The spell pierce in my board should be a fluster storm and the Gin Gitaxias should be Sire of Insanity. I still really like Sphinx of the Steel Wind. I boarded out Daze a lot on the draw. All of the builds of Storm were ANT and not TES. Getting to draw 14 and counter a dig through time is a pretty good feeling. Hope this provides some insight.

[Darksteel]

Played in the GP last weekend, had a great time seeing people and playing the deck in particular. I think in a filed of UR delver, burn and UWR stoneblade decks, we are very well placed to run the field. I played something similar to the list i had been playing for months, and was content with every slot. I was so happy with how the deck performed actually, that i wouldn't change a card. Anyway, I played this:

4 griselbrand
1 Iona, shield of emeria
1 tidespout tyrant
1 elesh norn, grand cenobyte

3 lotus petal
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
4 thoughtsieze
1 duress
4 careful study
4 entomb
4 reanimate
4 exhume
3 daze
4 force of will

4 polluted delta
3 verdant catacombs
4 underground sea
1 tropical island
1 bayou
2 swamp

Board:
4 abrupt decay
2 pithing needle
2 torymods crypt
2 duress
1 massacre
1 disfigure
1 sire of insanity
1 empyrial archangel
1 Aetherling

Some notes on cards:
Decay: fantastic as always, always did what i wanted, was often good when not killing graveyard-hate, and was easy to cast every time.

Duress: The main board duress was much better than the daze would have I'd imagine. Daze was the worst card in the deck, and actively feels that way. The duress helped to push though your combo against miracles, ur delver, and other stoneblade decks as well, where daze wouldn't actually hit anything.

2 Swamps: Island didn't cut it with the main deck duress, and the 2 others off the board. With the trop in the deck, i don't think we can afford another non-boac source with this configuration. Often you want to play a discard spell the turn that you go for the reanimate, and i was often at a loss to do that because of the island.

Tyrant: Still good, was actively the threat i got in a majority of my game ones. The fact that it gets REB'd is a little dangerous, but the card controlled the game through a multitude of things. Karakas game one was a big thing, and as long as you save the force for a swords to plowshares, tyrant often goes un-answered.

Disfigure: was like a 5th decay often. Killed a priest and a deathrite, so i can't as for much more. The split between this and massacre was awesome, as massacre is a sorcery, and only really good v the death and taxes strategies, and disfigure covers all creature matchups.

Sire: Very good against storm. Died too often in that matchup even with iona and a bunch of forces. Sire was good early in almost every midrange matchup, and was absurd on the play against storm.

Empyrial archangel: Was awesome. Killed a death and taxes player single-handedly through 3 swords, a karakas and a sword of light and shadow. Also won like 3 games against ur delver, where I'm not sure if another threat would have done the job. If i had reanimated griselbrand, i would have been burned out, so that was cool.

Aetherling: Killed 2 miracles players through terminus, swords and karakas. One opponent after seeing in on the board just concededed from like 20 life and top Karakas in play. Showed me double red blast and swords to my 3 open blue sources.

Not much more to say. Played all 15 rounds, had two buys, and went x-5. List was very good for the field. Lost to Miracles twice with both relic and clique in the main, bug delver, mud and conceded to lands instead of a draw. If the metagame shifts back away from the delver decks (Which i don't think it will), i would like to try something like a 4th ponder and maybe 2 dig through times. Until then though, discard spells are the real deal. Often you will board out the forces and dazes against the delver decks and miracles, and they die with 2 pyroclasts in hand. Feels good to be a non-blue combo deck after board. Anyway, ill leave you with this: Mud is definitely not a good matchup.

Thoughtsiezed my opponent on the play, and see chalice, chalice, three sphere, metalworker, ancient tomb, grim monolith, platinum angel. I take his angel, force his chalice, and reanimate his angel. He draws bridge, and plays chalice on one after monolith. We can't attack him to the point where he draws Karn Liberated for my angel, and his bridge. Then he plays cavern on his blight steel and i die. To be fair, i don't think that mud is that large of a threat to commit board cards to the matchup, but goddamn is turn one platinum angel sweet. :)

This is a sweet list. I like the sideboard creature choices.

Have you missed having Show and Tell? I'm just worried Abrupt Decays alone won't be enough against Death and Taxes and their variety of hate cards.

[DoorDie]

I'm not sure Show and Tell should still be in our playbook. Containment Priest makes what was previously an excellent plan B for dodging all the hate, a liability instead. We can still fight over the Priest like we do with all the hate, but the whole point of Show was to not have to go through that, making the 3-cmc worth it.

[Gilderbarin216]

Never really missed show and tell, but to be fair I have never cast the card in this deck, so I am not so attached to it. In reality, i think thats a good thing because again, with BBD doing so well at the gp, there are approximately 1,000,000 pyroblasts running around, and against death and taxes, the card doesnt really do much that you dont already have access to. Karakas is still near unbeatable with the show and tell plan, and so is priest. I just think that the deck is so efficient and low to the ground that show and tell adds an element that is too clunky. Also yeah, the package was on point for the gp, and probably for the future.

[Mhenlo]

Is Sire needed in the SB? Reanimator is known as one of the worst possible match ups for storm decks. Also Massacre is insane idk why you didn't start playing it earlier.

[Gilderbarin216]

Is Sire needed in the SB? Reanimator is known as one of the worst possible match ups for storm decks. Also Massacre is insane idk why you didn't start playing it earlier.

Storm is still very losable with discard spells and such. As well, naming red gets burning wish and past in flames, but bounce spells brought in could still kill you through Iona. Anyway, sire is just good in a myriad of matchups, basically wherever Elesh Norn is not good, so i think it earns the spot.

As for massacre, I am naive, thats why Ive waited so long.

[Markustrain]

Storm is still very losable with discard spells and such. As well, naming red gets burning wish and past in flames, but bounce spells brought in could still kill you through Iona. Anyway, sire is just good in a myriad of matchups, basically wherever Elesh Norn is not good, so i think it earns the spot.

As for massacre, I am naive, thats why Ive waited so long.

In the last match I played against Storm, I played Iona for black to shut up Tendrils, Infernal, ritual, Ad... but finally he brainstorms Empty the warrens and gg. Probably it would be more clever playing Iona for Red. :rolleyes:

After all, was a good match.

[Nuke is Good]

In terms of storm we typically have 3-4 thoughseize in the sideboard and sideboard even more. I do like having Sire of Insanity to seal the deal though.

On containment priest: I've thought about speeding up my combo by going 4 lotus petals but my blue spell count is on the low side as it is, so I'm contemplating if it's worth cutting my 2 dazes.

[CML]

In terms of storm we typically have 3-4 thoughseize in the sideboard and sideboard even more. I do like having Sire of Insanity to seal the deal though.

On containment priest: I've thought about speeding up my combo by going 4 lotus petals but my blue spell count is on the low side as it is, so I'm contemplating if it's worth cutting my 2 dazes.

how can people play this deck without 4 hapless researcher 0 petal? am i going crazy?

[PirateKing]

how can people play this deck without 4 hapless researcher 0 petal? am i going crazy?

Well what are your experiences playing with that build? What are some examples you've had while playing that suggests this is a superior build?

[CML]

Well what are your experiences playing with that build? What are some examples you've had while playing that suggests this is a superior build?

in a counter heavy meta thoughtseize is worse than a combo piece, and we don't really need it to beat other combo decks because reanimator already does that. people red blasting careful studies 1-4 is an issue and we can never really get around it with thoughtseizing ourselves because then our resources are so low we lose to any counterspell. not being able to thoughtseize, reanimate gbrand, draw 7 vs. bolt is another real problem.

[DoorDie]

Red blast effects in general aren't that great against us since our most powerful draws are the Entomb ones. I do like Researcher though, not only as redundancy with Careful Study but as a lategame combo with Reanimate.

I don't like Thoughtseize as a combo piece either, but it does a lot of work against some of the tougher matchups. Against decks with Lightning Bolt we usually don't need to draw 7; the only deck that complicates this is the confused Jeskai aggro, who packs both Swords and Bolt.

[BearsandSquires]

how can people play this deck without 4 hapless researcher 0 petal? am i going crazy?

Pretty sure ponder is just better than hapless researcher

[lyracian]

Pretty sure ponder is just better than hapless researcher
You cannot reanimate Ponder, researcher also dodges Thalia tax and spell pierce.

[cogitoergosum]

I played a solid tournament today and wanted to share my experience, as well as some ruminations on the MB and SB. I piloted the UBg version for 5 rounds, with a cut to top 8. We used the SCG play/ draw rule. I went 3-1-1, enough for the 6th seed.

Here is the list that I ran:

Creatures:
3 Grizzle
1 Tidespout
1 Elesh
1 Iona
1 Empyrial Archangel

Business:
4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead

Cantrip:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

Disruption:
4 FoW
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize

Lands:
3 Lotus Petal
4 U Sea
1 Trop
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Show and Tell
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Massacre
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ashen Rider
1 Thoughtseize

Some comments on the list:

I think the maindeck is near perfect. 3 Lotus petals for velocity, and I feel like 15 lands is the correct number, at least for a 3 color list.

I want daze and thoughtseize, I like the varied disruption, and both cards shine in this deck. If only thoughtseize didn’t cost 2 life 

Empyrial Archangel is the ever-changing flex spot of mine. When it is good, it is really good (like when you only have reanimate at lower life against a bolt deck), but it can be weak. I might try a sire of insanity in this slot, but I’m unsure. I was running Inkwell in this slot, but DnT is not very present around me anymore so I thought Empyrial the better choice.

I’m obviously not running maindeck SnT. Honestly, even when BUG Delver was #1 and deathrite was everywhere, SnT was still seldom used G1 to combo, so I really don’t think it belongs in the main right now. That gave me the ability to run the 10 disruption, as well as the full set of ponders for consistency. I only kept SnT in the list for the BUG Delver matchup, and maybe Jund, but I didn’t play either all day. I’m still unsure about cutting them completely (I moved down to 3), but they are a bit of a liability with all the blasts in the format. I didn’t use this card all day.

I still want to try Aetherling against miracles, but Iona is also pretty good here. Maybe Sire would be as well? Does anyone have any experience with this?

Also, you can see that I am not running an SB counters. I was debating between 2 Spell Pierce or 2 Surgical, but upon thinking realize that I never really even use Spell Pierce, and I think they might be unnecessary. Surgical is at least as good, but can be devastating against combo, fight GY decks, and honestly, I would almost rather surgical an opponent’s forces than board in pierce to fight counter wars and slow the deck down. What matches do you guys typically side in counterspells?

And here is a quick tournament report:

Round 1 vs G/B/W Junk? 0-1 (0-2)
G1: I keep a hand with two reanimate spells and a couple ponders. I draw lands, lands, and more lands as my hand is thrashed with therapy. I lose.
SB: +3 AD, +1 Ashen Rider, +2 Massacre (was worried about thalia/ hatebear potential out of the board, but have little experience with this matchup) -3 TS, -1 Iona, -1 Ponder, -1 Animate Dead
G3: I keep a similar hand. Opponent lands a quick stoneforge, and has discard therapy/ veteran explorer going. End up getting an Archangel in the GY off of a careful study. I try to buy time with it but lose to some 4 mana trample creature with a sword and batterskull on it. I lose.

Round 2 vs Enchantress 1-1 (2-2)
G1: He mulls to 6. I reanimate Iona turn 2 on green.
SB: +3 AD, +1 K Grip (I saw he had helm combo), +1 Thoughtseize, -3 Daze, -1 Ponder, -1 CS
G2: I Turn 1 grizzle, turn two Iona. Profit.

Round 3 vs. Sneak and Show 2-1 (4-3)
G1: I turn 2 grizlebrand, and force his SnT next turn.
SB: I think it was +1 Ashen Rider, -1 Elesh, +2 Needle, +1 K Grip (in case of leyline mostly), +1 Thoughtseize, -3 Daze, -1 Ponder
G2: He gets out a T1 relic of progenitus. I force him to pop it turn 3 with entomb/ reanimate, and I’m just digging for another entomb/CS. He gets out through the breach on turn 4 or 5 and I die.
G3: Normally I might switch Daze/ Thoughtseize on play/ draw, but I kept in TS since I am playing combo. He SnT T3 with overmaster protection for my force. I play grizzle, he plays Emrakul. My turn, I dig 7 or 14 and get Ashen Rider and win.

Round 4 vs Miracles
G1 I turn 2 Iona on white with force backup, and ride it to victory.
SB: +3 AD, +1 K Grip, +1 Rider, +2 Needle -3 Daze, -1 Elesh, -1 CS, -1 Ponder, -1 exhume
G2: I get a turn 2 Iona on white, and ride it to victory.

Round 5 ID

Quarterfinals vs DDFT
G1: I keep the greediest hand, no land, but double force and reanimate and cantrips. Since I am on the draw, I decide to gamble knowing my opponent is on combo and I had 2 forces. I get duress’d and therapy’d, ruining the natural discard plan, and can’t rebuild fast enough. Don’t be this greedy! I was running hot and was clearly overconfident.
SB: +2 Surgical, +2 Pithing Needle, +1 Thoughtseize, -3 Daze, -1 ponder, -reanimate (I think)
G2: I turn 2 Grizle. I get him low life but he finds karakas. I dig 14, and exhume an ashen rider on his xantid swarm, and he scoops when I show him my forces.
G3: I turn 1 Grizzle. Wait. He ponders into his only Karakas. I draw 14, thinking I need to rebuild ASAP. I get 5 lands in my first 7  His t3 He plays a SDT, I force. He plays another, I force again. Pitching two brainstorms and leaving me with combo pieces but no disruption. I get out a t3 Ashen, but being at one life from TS him, forcing, and drawing with GBrand, he burning wishes into tendrils and I lose.

This last game, should I have fought so hard over the tops? My idea was that he had little cards in hand, maybe 3, and top was going to find him business and discard to use on me before going off. Also, I know top is used in a LOT of piles. In hindsight, it seems like a poor choice looking back but it seemed to make sense at the time.

I would be very interested in hearing from experienced players what they think of my sideboarding.

All in all, I had a great day. Until next time, keep on reanimating!

[Dr Brian Pepper]

I played a solid tournament today and wanted to share my experience, as well as some ruminations on the MB and SB. I piloted the UBg version for 5 rounds, with a cut to top 8. We used the SCG play/ draw rule. I went 3-1-1, enough for the 6th seed.

Here is the list that I ran:

Creatures:
3 Grizzle
1 Tidespout
1 Elesh
1 Iona
1 Empyrial Archangel

Business:
4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead

Cantrip:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

Disruption:
4 FoW
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize

Lands:
3 Lotus Petal
4 U Sea
1 Trop
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Show and Tell
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Massacre
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ashen Rider
1 Thoughtseize

Some comments on the list:

I think the maindeck is near perfect. 3 Lotus petals for velocity, and I feel like 15 lands is the correct number, at least for a 3 color list.

I want daze and thoughtseize, I like the varied disruption, and both cards shine in this deck. If only thoughtseize didn’t cost 2 life 

Empyrial Archangel is the ever-changing flex spot of mine. When it is good, it is really good (like when you only have reanimate at lower life against a bolt deck), but it can be weak. I might try a sire of insanity in this slot, but I’m unsure. I was running Inkwell in this slot, but DnT is not very present around me anymore so I thought Empyrial the better choice.

I’m obviously not running maindeck SnT. Honestly, even when BUG Delver was #1 and deathrite was everywhere, SnT was still seldom used G1 to combo, so I really don’t think it belongs in the main right now. That gave me the ability to run the 10 disruption, as well as the full set of ponders for consistency. I only kept SnT in the list for the BUG Delver matchup, and maybe Jund, but I didn’t play either all day. I’m still unsure about cutting them completely (I moved down to 3), but they are a bit of a liability with all the blasts in the format. I didn’t use this card all day.

I still want to try Aetherling against miracles, but Iona is also pretty good here. Maybe Sire would be as well? Does anyone have any experience with this?

Also, you can see that I am not running an SB counters. I was debating between 2 Spell Pierce or 2 Surgical, but upon thinking realize that I never really even use Spell Pierce, and I think they might be unnecessary. Surgical is at least as good, but can be devastating against combo, fight GY decks, and honestly, I would almost rather surgical an opponent’s forces than board in pierce to fight counter wars and slow the deck down. What matches do you guys typically side in counterspells?

And here is a quick tournament report:

Round 1 vs G/B/W Junk? 0-1 (0-2)
G1: I keep a hand with two reanimate spells and a couple ponders. I draw lands, lands, and more lands as my hand is thrashed with therapy. I lose.
SB: +3 AD, +1 Ashen Rider, +2 Massacre (was worried about thalia/ hatebear potential out of the board, but have little experience with this matchup) -3 TS, -1 Iona, -1 Ponder, -1 Animate Dead
G3: I keep a similar hand. Opponent lands a quick stoneforge, and has discard therapy/ veteran explorer going. End up getting an Archangel in the GY off of a careful study. I try to buy time with it but lose to some 4 mana trample creature with a sword and batterskull on it. I lose.

Round 2 vs Enchantress 1-1 (2-2)
G1: He mulls to 6. I reanimate Iona turn 2 on green.
SB: +3 AD, +1 K Grip (I saw he had helm combo), +1 Thoughtseize, -3 Daze, -1 Ponder, -1 CS
G2: I Turn 1 grizzle, turn two Iona. Profit.

Round 3 vs. Sneak and Show 2-1 (4-3)
G1: I turn 2 grizlebrand, and force his SnT next turn.
SB: I think it was +1 Ashen Rider, -1 Elesh, +2 Needle, +1 K Grip (in case of leyline mostly), +1 Thoughtseize, -3 Daze, -1 Ponder
G2: He gets out a T1 relic of progenitus. I force him to pop it turn 3 with entomb/ reanimate, and I’m just digging for another entomb/CS. He gets out through the breach on turn 4 or 5 and I die.
G3: Normally I might switch Daze/ Thoughtseize on play/ draw, but I kept in TS since I am playing combo. He SnT T3 with overmaster protection for my force. I play grizzle, he plays Emrakul. My turn, I dig 7 or 14 and get Ashen Rider and win.

Round 4 vs Miracles
G1 I turn 2 Iona on white with force backup, and ride it to victory.
SB: +3 AD, +1 K Grip, +1 Rider, +2 Needle -3 Daze, -1 Elesh, -1 CS, -1 Ponder, -1 exhume
G2: I get a turn 2 Iona on white, and ride it to victory.

Round 5 ID

Quarterfinals vs DDFT
G1: I keep the greediest hand, no land, but double force and reanimate and cantrips. Since I am on the draw, I decide to gamble knowing my opponent is on combo and I had 2 forces. I get duress’d and therapy’d, ruining the natural discard plan, and can’t rebuild fast enough. Don’t be this greedy! I was running hot and was clearly overconfident.
SB: +2 Surgical, +2 Pithing Needle, +1 Thoughtseize, -3 Daze, -1 ponder, -reanimate (I think)
G2: I turn 2 Grizle. I get him low life but he finds karakas. I dig 14, and exhume an ashen rider on his xantid swarm, and he scoops when I show him my forces.
G3: I turn 1 Grizzle. Wait. He ponders into his only Karakas. I draw 14, thinking I need to rebuild ASAP. I get 5 lands in my first 7  His t3 He plays a SDT, I force. He plays another, I force again. Pitching two brainstorms and leaving me with combo pieces but no disruption. I get out a t3 Ashen, but being at one life from TS him, forcing, and drawing with GBrand, he burning wishes into tendrils and I lose.

This last game, should I have fought so hard over the tops? My idea was that he had little cards in hand, maybe 3, and top was going to find him business and discard to use on me before going off. Also, I know top is used in a LOT of piles. In hindsight, it seems like a poor choice looking back but it seemed to make sense at the time.

I would be very interested in hearing from experienced players what they think of my sideboarding.

All in all, I had a great day. Until next time, keep on reanimating!



From the testing I have done, Sire is only really good against Miracles if you can do it turn one maybe two, and with that logic grislebrand would just be better. Been trying ashen rider in the flew spot and it hasn't been terrible.

[DoorDie]

...

I still want to try Aetherling against miracles, but Iona is also pretty good here. Maybe Sire would be as well? Does anyone have any experience with this?

Also, you can see that I am not running an SB counters. I was debating between 2 Spell Pierce or 2 Surgical, but upon thinking realize that I never really even use Spell Pierce, and I think they might be unnecessary. Surgical is at least as good, but can be devastating against combo, fight GY decks, and honestly, I would almost rather surgical an opponent’s forces than board in pierce to fight counter wars and slow the deck down. What matches do you guys typically side in counterspells?

...

This last game, should I have fought so hard over the tops? My idea was that he had little cards in hand, maybe 3, and top was going to find him business and discard to use on me before going off. Also, I know top is used in a LOT of piles. In hindsight, it seems like a poor choice looking back but it seemed to make sense at the time.

I would be very interested in hearing from experienced players what they think of my sideboarding.

All in all, I had a great day. Until next time, keep on reanimating!

Miracles will typically scoop to Aetherling, their only outs are to race with Entreat or a Clique if you're at a low life total. I'm trying him maindeck since I feel that Miracles is the matchup that could use the most G1 improvement, and I think he improves it quite a lot since we typically get to reanimate but have issues when they slam Karakas or a Terminus we can't stop. He's got a slower natural clock but should be able to hold his own in other fair matchups. He will not beat nut aggro draws, however.

I tried Spell Pierce, too, and found myself almost never wanting to hold up mana for it. We are lower to the ground than a deck like Sneak n' Show, so counters that cost mana aren't terribly appealing. Duress is basically a proactive Pierce some players here have discussed already which you could consider if you want that kind of effect.

I don't know DDFT well enough to be 100% on this, but I don't think fighting over Tops run by a combo deck is worthwhile unless you know they also have Counterbalance. You fight over it against Miracles because otherwise they will have an endless supply of answers, but combo will have less lands to operate it and other more important cards to actually fight over (like Wish or Doomsday).

[cogitoergosum]

Miracles will typically scoop to Aetherling, their only outs are to race with Entreat or a Clique if you're at a low life total. I'm trying him maindeck since I feel that Miracles is the matchup that could use the most G1 improvement, and I think he improves it quite a lot since we typically get to reanimate but have issues when they slam Karakas or a Terminus we can't stop. He's got a slower natural clock but should be able to hold his own in other fair matchups. He will not beat nut aggro draws, however.

I tried Spell Pierce, too, and found myself almost never wanting to hold up mana for it. We are lower to the ground than a deck like Sneak n' Show, so counters that cost mana aren't terribly appealing. Duress is basically a proactive Pierce some players here have discussed already which you could consider if you want that kind of effect.

I don't know DDFT well enough to be 100% on this, but I don't think fighting over Tops run by a combo deck is worthwhile unless you know they also have Counterbalance. You fight over it against Miracles because otherwise they will have an endless supply of answers, but combo will have less lands to operate it and other more important cards to actually fight over (like Wish or Doomsday).

I agree on the tops. Against ANT I would almost never fight over it, but as I was somewhat unfamiliar with DDFT and did know that it is essential in a large amount of piles. However, considering we were also both at low life totals, I should have kept the forces for B Wish/ DD. But at least I learned more about the matchup :)

Edit: let me clarify the board state when I fought over the tops. I was at 4 life and he was at three. He had a dual, karakas, and a fetch. I also knew I could entomb/ exhume a non legendary next turn, and win the following turn.

I am going to test out aetherling, but I also think that AD and K Grip do a lot of work in that matchup.

[DoorDie]

Yeah, I can totally see the tactical value in the moment. I overthink things plenty, myself.

It's possible we're already fine and my hedge is hurting my other matchups. Still need to test. Krosan Grip is a real sideboard card, I just realized that it also deals with Leylines, which are horrifying otherwise. I already switched to Grixis otherwise I'd snap one into my board already.

[turbo]

Hi Guys,

I just bought all cards for Reanimator and I can't wait till I start playing it properly. Despite all the hate cards, this deck is still strong and a lot of fun.

2 questions however:

1) what is good about grave titan? Should I include it in the MD?
2) Why do I always see Tidespout Tyrant over ashen rider MD? I think Ashen Rider is somewhat better since it REMOVES the problematic permanent IMMIDIATELY, whereas with Tidespout you need spells which you might not have atm + you reanimate Tidespout and are probably tapped out, and the problematic permanent is still in play.

Give me your insight please.

[Stryfo]

Grave titan is popular becase it is the fastest clock the deck can produce and is good against edicts. I don't play it in my 75, but others swear by it, only way to find out if you like it is to play it yourself.

As far as Tidespout vs. Rider. If you land tidespout early, without using too many resources, rather than getting rid of one permanent, which may or may not win the game (usually not) you get to get rid of all permanents. He is also much, MUCH more powerful after a Griselbrand D7. Also, if you are using animate dead, tidespout has built in protection from removal as long as you have instants. Most of the Non-Griselbrand creatures in reanimator are not there to win all games on their own, they are bullets that help in specific matchups. For example, Elesh is good against Dredge and Elves, but AWFUL against Miracles. Tidespout is great against anyone trying to play fair, but pretty abysmal against combo. Iona crushes burn and some combo, but is less good against DnT, Maverick, etc. Part of the reason Griselbrand is so good, aside from the obvious, is that he allows you to have a big, starting body, and then go find the bullets that are good in the matchup in following turns while providing counter backup.

Hope this helps!

[turbo]

Thank for the info. I will try both tyrant and titan.
I don't understand this, however :


Also, if you are using animate dead, tidespout has built in protection from removal as long as you have instants.

[guillemnicolau]

Thank for the info. I will try both tyrant and titan.
I don't understand this, however :
Also, if you are using animate dead, tidespout has built in protection from removal as long as you have instants.
He means that you can play a brainstorm in response to a swords to the tyrant, to trigger tyrant's hability and return the animate dead to your hand so the tyrant will go to your graveyard (and you'll be able to animate it again next turn).

[turbo]

Oh yes, I also figured that out right after my post :)
A nice trick.

Also guys, do think Sire of Insanity should be somewhere in the 75? If reanimate it turn 1/2 it should be an out win I guess. What are your thoughts?

[CML]

hello everyone. i got 9th place at the portland open last weekend. if you want to watch me get massacred on camera then share the URL here because i cannot find it. i am here to dispense some KNOWLEDGE of questionable merit.


Pretty sure ponder is just better than hapless researcher

you are correct, when the opponent has a chains of mephistopheles you can not only draw a card and bin your fatty but also set up your next two steps and even shuffle, and those are things that hapless researcher cannot do. ponder isn't that great in the deck, but i would still play 3-4 in addition to 4 hapless.

to answer a question above, when i played with petals i lost to counterspells and mulled a lot and couldn't put creatures in my graveyard. so i switched them to researchers? here's the thing, g1 isn't as good as everyone says, so i think 4 griselbrand 1 iona 1 norn 1 sphinx is best in my meta, for example -- no screwing around with horrible inkwell leviathan or tidespout to "gain g1 equity against D&T" or whatever. but this also means g2 and g3 are far better than expected, so there's no need to be too afraid of hate -- the plan of going under with petals is overreacting.

i don't get the point of grave titan when it can't beat a plow and a batterskull, a flipped delver, etc.

sire of insanity is bad

ashen rider does nothing

aetherling is probably bad because containment priest means we can't do it vs. stoneforge decks, dunno if i want it for just 1 matchup where i just get a griselbrand anyway because they never pressure my life

md duress is interesting, empyrial archangel as well. can someone describe where angel or duress would be good?

does anyone else get griselbrand like 90% of the time?

[death]

Empyrial Archangel trumps both Sphinx and Inkwell in damage prevention/evasion. Being able to soak up damage, block fliers while staying untouched by Swords, Jace, etc is huge whereas Sphinx (and Sire of Insanity) fails this test.

Ashen Rider is a silver bullet, it lets you deal with permanents like Esnaring Bridge, it gives you an option to not just lose against anything random. Better than Tidespout Tyrant in my opinion because it does not require anything else to remove stuff and it actually exiles. So those 2, Griselbrand and Iona make up the top 4 creatures for me.

[Nuke is Good]

md duress is interesting, empyrial archangel as well. can someone describe where angel or duress would be good?

does anyone else get griselbrand like 90% of the time?

I usually use Empyrial Archangel in Miracles or decks packing white where I'm expecting swords/targeted removal and if I manage to bin it in burn. I don't MD duress I prefer just my three thoughtseizes. Maybe I'm an outlier I do not bin for Griselbrand most of the time, I'll get Griselbrand/Elesh Norn depending on my life totals during a delver matchup. Delver especially UR cannot compete with that card quality anyway.

[Gilderbarin216]

hello everyone. i got 9th place at the portland open last weekend. if you want to watch me get massacred on camera then share the URL here because i cannot find it. i am here to dispense some KNOWLEDGE of questionable merit.



you are correct, when the opponent has a chains of mephistopheles you can not only draw a card and bin your fatty but also set up your next two steps and even shuffle, and those are things that hapless researcher cannot do. ponder isn't that great in the deck, but i would still play 3-4 in addition to 4 hapless.

to answer a question above, when i played with petals i lost to counterspells and mulled a lot and couldn't put creatures in my graveyard. so i switched them to researchers? here's the thing, g1 isn't as good as everyone says, so i think 4 griselbrand 1 iona 1 norn 1 sphinx is best in my meta, for example -- no screwing around with horrible inkwell leviathan or tidespout to "gain g1 equity against D&T" or whatever. but this also means g2 and g3 are far better than expected, so there's no need to be too afraid of hate -- the plan of going under with petals is overreacting.

i don't get the point of grave titan when it can't beat a plow and a batterskull, a flipped delver, etc.

sire of insanity is bad

ashen rider does nothing

aetherling is probably bad because containment priest means we can't do it vs. stoneforge decks, dunno if i want it for just 1 matchup where i just get a griselbrand anyway because they never pressure my life

md duress is interesting, empyrial archangel as well. can someone describe where angel or duress would be good?

does anyone else get griselbrand like 90% of the time?

Aetherling is the only threat in the deck that can actually kill a miracles player after turn 4, that is why it is important. If your argument is that it cannot beat a stuck containment priest in play, well guess what? If they have a priest in play we are DEAD anyway. Duress was just good for the projected meta of the gp that week, and while i am still playing it, i don't know if it is necessary atm. Very good v ur delver and other matchups where you are out counter magic'd, and you only need a one turn window to resolve a spell/dodge rip/counterbalance etc. Anyway, i only bring in archangel against burn, ur delver, and D&T. Its important there because it is very difficult to race, cannot be swords'd, and is Karakas-proof.

Congrats on the finish, and can you please explain to me why hapless researcher is playable?
Thanks, Jake.

[cogitoergosum]

hello everyone. i got 9th place at the portland open last weekend. if you want to watch me get massacred on camera then share the URL here because i cannot find it. i am here to dispense some KNOWLEDGE of questionable merit.



you are correct, when the opponent has a chains of mephistopheles you can not only draw a card and bin your fatty but also set up your next two steps and even shuffle, and those are things that hapless researcher cannot do. ponder isn't that great in the deck, but i would still play 3-4 in addition to 4 hapless.

to answer a question above, when i played with petals i lost to counterspells and mulled a lot and couldn't put creatures in my graveyard. so i switched them to researchers? here's the thing, g1 isn't as good as everyone says, so i think 4 griselbrand 1 iona 1 norn 1 sphinx is best in my meta, for example -- no screwing around with horrible inkwell leviathan or tidespout to "gain g1 equity against D&T" or whatever. but this also means g2 and g3 are far better than expected, so there's no need to be too afraid of hate -- the plan of going under with petals is overreacting.

i don't get the point of grave titan when it can't beat a plow and a batterskull, a flipped delver, etc.

sire of insanity is bad

ashen rider does nothing

aetherling is probably bad because containment priest means we can't do it vs. stoneforge decks, dunno if i want it for just 1 matchup where i just get a griselbrand anyway because they never pressure my life

md duress is interesting, empyrial archangel as well. can someone describe where angel or duress would be good?

does anyone else get griselbrand like 90% of the time?

Had to respond to a couple things. Ponder is amazing in this deck, I have set up so many turn twos finding the second part of the combo, so I finally found room to up my count to 4.

Tidesprout is a MD card. It pitches to force, can on super rare occasion be hard cast, owns DnT, owns SnT and Emrakul decks, owns Lands and dark depths decks, basically is really good when it is good. It is only really not good against plow decks when you have no instants in hand. Even bouncing a couple lands by brainstorming and maybe dropping a petal can usually buy the time to win.

Ashen Rider is good and deserves a SB slot. I used to not play it, but recently put it back in my SB and have been very impressed, it has won me quite a few games against karakas and Emrakul decks.

Aetherling, I need to try. Miracles is hard but Iona on white has gotten me there most of the time.

Empyrial archangel is also very good as a last ditch effort in lightning bolt matches. You can reanimate here where you could usually not risk going to such low life.

Went 3-1 again yesterday with my list, I think Reanimator is in a great position in this meta. And People dropping RIP for containment priest is great for us.

[CML]

Aetherling is the only threat in the deck that can actually kill a miracles player after turn 4, that is why it is important. If your argument is that it cannot beat a stuck containment priest in play, well guess what? If they have a priest in play we are DEAD anyway. Duress was just good for the projected meta of the gp that week, and while i am still playing it, i don't know if it is necessary atm. Very good v ur delver and other matchups where you are out counter magic'd, and you only need a one turn window to resolve a spell/dodge rip/counterbalance etc. Anyway, i only bring in archangel against burn, ur delver, and D&T. Its important there because it is very difficult to race, cannot be swords'd, and is Karakas-proof.

Congrats on the finish, and can you please explain to me why hapless researcher is playable?
Thanks, Jake.

is hapless good? sure, if we should be playing 4 or more careful studies.

you can get miracles with a draw 7-14, and since a lot of them aren't playing karakas (or just 1) i'm pretty sure this is the right plan. you'll have needles in for top anyway

sometimes other decks will draw containment priest after we've stuck our fatty. which is better, the one that doesn't win the game in that situation or all of the other ones

archangel is sweet think im gonna try it friday

above post makes a good case for the tyrant, though i cannot hardcast it

the whole "can't beat a containment priest" mindset is, i think, costing this thread a lot of equity in postboard games

i made a bunch of errors on my camera match, im not sure if i should keep the 6 game 1 and game 2 had i boarded into Sphinx of the Steel Wind i could have raced with ease. i'm not sure if i'm supposed to have sphinx against maverick, but, eh, why not. make them have the plow. seems way better than inkwell

i'm wondering if the cases where jin is better than griselbrand are rare enough that he belongs nowhere. jin is pretty good postboard if they've taken out their plows

[cogitoergosum]

is hapless good? sure, if we should be playing 4 or more careful studies.

you can get miracles with a draw 7-14, and since a lot of them aren't playing karakas (or just 1) i'm pretty sure this is the right plan. you'll have needles in for top anyway

sometimes other decks will draw containment priest after we've stuck our fatty. which is better, the one that doesn't win the game in that situation or all of the other ones

archangel is sweet think im gonna try it friday

above post makes a good case for the tyrant, though i cannot hardcast it

the whole "can't beat a containment priest" mindset is, i think, costing this thread a lot of equity in postboard games

i made a bunch of errors on my camera match, im not sure if i should keep the 6 game 1 and game 2 had i boarded into Sphinx of the Steel Wind i could have raced with ease. i'm not sure if i'm supposed to have sphinx against maverick, but, eh, why not. make them have the plow. seems way better than inkwell

i'm wondering if the cases where jin is better than griselbrand are rare enough that he belongs nowhere. jin is pretty good postboard if they've taken out their plows

I just happened to hard cast Tidesprout once and it felt amazing :) but yeah it doesn't really happen.

On Jin, he is also likely GG against storm, which is worth considering. I know it is a pretty good matchup for us, but it can also be really swingy.

Edit: But I'm pretty confident that griselbrand is just better.

Edit: Also, Blazing Archon is still a creature I consider in the SB. It stops dredge, stops TES/ storm on the empty plan, stops emrakul, stops dark depths, stops elves/ tribal, dodges karakas, and pairs well as a 2nd target to finish out griselbrand games.

[DoorDie]

The Hapless Researcher versus Careful Study debate comes up a lot, and most people's instinct leads them to believe the extra draw + discard is more important. Researcher has a lot of upsides that get ignored, like chump blocking, conserving mana, and being a looter that can rise from the grave. I'm just saying Researcher isn't solely Studies #5-8 since we play with our own life totals like a kid with a lighter.

Aetherling matching up poorly with Containment Priest is relevant, but I'd love to hear of any better silver bullets for Miracles since the matchup postboard can be pretty tough. Iona loses to Karakas and Jace, and I'm shocked to learn that not all builds run Karakas (Griselbrand was printed awhile ago and Wasteland isn't that prevalent right now). Inkwell loses to Terminus. I think Aetherling is the best we've got, just board in Massacre if you need more removal for the Priest.

And I'll echo the sentiment earlier about Priest: people dropping RIP is a good thing for us! Priest lets us prep our graveyard while digging for removal, so let's show those delve players just how many cards you can draw on T2 using the graveyard.

[cogitoergosum]

Regarding Hapless, I think he is better in meta with more DRS, i.e. Bug and Jund decks. I'm not sure if he is worth the slots currently, just my opinion.

Also, couldn't stinkweed imp be potentially better in this slot because it serves as a discard outlet, and is not susceptible to blasts? When I tested hapless it was most often to pitch a fatty in hand, not trying to find one. But I guess it doesn't pitch to FOW.

[DoorDie]

Ah you mean Putrid Imp. I haven't played him but he's certainly an option. Seems worse against removal; Mr Hapless can just fall off a tall bookshelf and he won't go farming. I don't worry about blue count or blast effects with combo pieces.

[owerbart]

Am I an idiot if I consider splashing a Tundra in my manabase for Serenity?

[cogitoergosum]

Am I an idiot if I consider splashing a Tundra in my manabase for Serenity?

Abrupt decay is much better than serenity for us imo. Also, engineered explosives seems better.

Im also wondering, for those or you packing sb counterspells, what matches do you like to side them in?

[Nuke is Good]

Abrupt decay is much better than serenity for us imo. Also, engineered explosives seems better.

Im also wondering, for those or you packing sb counterspells, what matches do you like to side them in?

I only have a single flusterstorm. So I bring them in decks I'd expect a counterwar like RUG Delver, Miracles, and other blue decks. I also board it in against storm, which helped once since my opponent did a diminishing returns but it resulted in me getting flusterstorm in my hand allowing me to counter his fatal tendrils.

[owerbart]

Abrupt decay is much better than serenity for us imo. Also, engineered explosives seems better.

Im also wondering, for those or you packing sb counterspells, what matches do you like to side them in?

I thought about serenity because it nabs black leylines, all the artifact hate at once, and against matches with tons of hate like MUD or Stax it demolishes their entire board.

About counterspells, I pack FoWs and Dazes maindeck, sideboard flusterstorm is always nice against Belcher, Spanish Inquisition, T.E.S., ANT, and quick combo-decks. They are very handy, never left my SB.

[Rood]

I think Therapy is just strait out better then Hapless Researcher...Sure you get to see that one extra card but I'd rather be
destroying someone's hand and still have the ability to pitch a Grisel to my yard with it. Not to mention the insane synergy with Ashen Rider.

[PirateKing]

I had the classic Daze/Peirce play/draw package, then i replaced the Spell Peirce with Flusterstorm shortly after it came out. They still come in on the play if I'm expecting the need for counter magic. If I'm not expecting a need for anything beyond a well placed Force, then Duress or Abrupt Decay come in for Daze.

You don't need counter magic in the side, but if you're not going fast, then Daze gets bad fast.

[Nuke is Good]

I've been messing around with the Abrupt Decay plan and been liking it so far. However the manabase is way too greedy for me to be comfortable with it and considering going to the engineered explosives plan so I can run two basics.

Abrupt Decay lets me answer almost all hate cards except for leyline of the void but has an incredibly fragile manabase and is bumping me to 16 lands. I've never really played with Engineered Explosives, does it go around Chalice of the Void and Counterbalance decently?

[cogitoergosum]

I've been messing around with the Abrupt Decay plan and been liking it so far. However the manabase is way too greedy for me to be comfortable with it and considering going to the engineered explosives plan so I can run two basics.

Abrupt Decay lets me answer almost all hate cards except for leyline of the void but has an incredibly fragile manabase and is bumping me to 16 lands. I've never really played with Engineered Explosives, does it go around Chalice of the Void and Counterbalance decently?

I run 15 lands with 8 fetch and a basic swamp and it has been totally fine for ad. I like ad more as you can cast it turn two, but you don't want to be too land light with ee either because you need 3+ obviously to play around chalice and countertop.

[shady]

hi everyone, (sry for my bad english ...)

it's been a long time i look at this very intressant thread and i've a little problem. maybe you could help me.

my list : 60+15

15 land:

4 US
1 bayou
1 trop island
2 basic (U and B)
7 fetch (U/B/g)

7 creatures:

3 grisel
1 elesh
1 iona
1 sphinx
1 ashen rider

the rest :

3 Lotus petal
4 Fow
4 daze
4 BS
4 ponder
2 thoughtseize
4 entomb
4 carefull studies
4 reanimate
4 exhume
1 animate dead

the side:

3 A. decay
1 archangel (for R MU)
3 needle
2 echoing truth
2 massacre
2 surgical extraction
2 duress

li'l explanations :

18 mana : 15 + 3 petal. no problem of acces to G for side even with the basics.

creatures : 3 grisel is enough to put in the sphinx (my meta is plenty of G deck like junk and BUG with lots of UR delver and RDW splash U for treasure cruise). The discussion could be on the sphinx vs archangel or [pro R/G and lifelink] vs [shroud and redirect damage]. In top 8 you generally have : miracle and DnT (1 or 2 in the room for a tournament with +- 80 players), with UR delver and a BUG. The rest is changing : merfolk/mud/elves/Jund ...
ashen rider is here to kill the karakas/bridge.

the rest :

8 counters
8 grave way
9 reanimate
2 discard
and 8 cantrips.

I think the list is good but i'm open to the discussion.

my sideboard need lots of work !

i agree with decay that's really good against lots of things but my problem is the in/out ...

the base idea:

decay vs W deck (with RIP)
needle vs karakas/DRS/relic/tormod/...
massacre vs hatebear (thalia, ...) but it's a ritual. (i m thinking at the priest)
echoing truth vs leyline
archangel for R deck but sphinx is not too bad ...
duress vs U deck
surgical vs U deck : i like surgical FOW before comboting

vs miracle i need to enter decay (vs RIP) and needle (vs karakas) but what do i have to out ?, the same versus DnT.
vs BUG i need needle for DRS and duress for surgical/extirpate ...

generally i cut the counters for aggro deck, that makes 4/8 slots for side-in but the other MU ... i don't see what to cut. any help here ?

NB: i don't like the show n tell plan, i play this lots of time and i really don't like it! I prefer combo fast with disruption or searching solutions for it.

[Dr Brian Pepper]

Hello everyone, I have a small report from my locals. 16 people in Houston


1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Ashen Rider

1 Animate Dead
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
3 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Reanimate
3 Thoughtseize

1 Bayou
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs

SIDEBOARD

3 Abrupt Decays
2 Duress
2 Pithing Needle
2 Spell Pierce
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Massacre
1 Echoing Truth
1 Atherling


Round 1 (2-0) U/R Delver

Game 1 I keep a strong hand, 2 lands, can trips, petal and most of the combo, just needed a reanimation spell. I start off with a fetch for an underground sea, (usually if I have two lands in my hand im not to worried about wasteland) and I find a reanimate/daze/land, I draw the daze. next turn I am able to get a grislebrand out and the game is over.

Game 2 I side in the Decay package, taking out my dazes on the draw which seems incorrect now that I think about it. Anyway, I have a strong hand, FOW with a blue card, entomb/reanimate, lotus petal and a fattie but no land. I decided to keep since on the off chance I don't draw land I get discard my grislebrand and louts petal into reanimate. Luckily for me I am able to draw a land for my turn and reanimate a grislebrand fow'ing his fow.


Round 2 (2-0) UWR Stoneblade.

Game 1 I am able to play the long game thanks to a good thoughtseize after my opponent mulled to 6, eventually sculpted a hand with he had nothing going.

Game 2 was a really good game. I put in the decays and massacres, shaving some can trips (careful studies), and preparing myself for a more grindy game. I keep a decent hand, a lot of can trips and a decay, he keeps his 7 and starts out with a ponder, I mimic his play and he plays land go. H eventually plays a pyromancer and starts making tokens, while I can only dig. I am able to find a massacre off a ponder but I decide that I have to get greedy to be able to win this game. Luckily for me my opponent plays a second pyromancer, which makes the massacre even more insane. He decides not to fight over it which I think might have been his demise. We are both playing land go while I sit on two decays, he ironically draws meddling mage back to back which I am able to decay both. (He knew about the Decays but named exhume on the mage anyway, this seems incorrect to me, isn't it better to just provide a clock?) he has a bout 10 lands to my 7 and I eventually get the exhume and am able to pull it out with grislebrand beats.


Round 3 (2-1) Burn

Game I know what hes on and I know what hand I am looking for. I keep a good hand, but its not the type of hand I want for the matchup, I end up thoughtsezing myself and then reanimating grislebrand brand dropping to 6 life. He goes for the kill with double bolt on his turn and daze wins me the game.

Game 2 I on the draw and Iona is my hand with reanimate. He plays a lavamancer down, and I draw for my turn and discard Iona. Sadly for me he drops a relic and the game is pretty much over from there.

Game 3 I have a turn two Iona and he has no hate.

I feel like this is such a good matchup that I have zero things to board, maybe siding in decays would help but I didn't want to delude the deck at all.

Round 4 (0-2) MUD

I'm in top 4 and decided to play to see what hes on.

Game 1 He turn ones a Chalice, and it eats my Fow. I have the two grislebrand but I have to thoughtseize myself revealing a reanimate. He slams another chalice on one. i decided to go for it in hopes that he forget the trigger but it is countered and I am dead.

I side in decays and the bounce effects.

Game 2 he is able to resolve a turn on chalice, and then a turn two chalice. With both being at 1 and 2 I am pretty much locked out. I was able to get a fattie into the graveyard and I had a decay, he was beating me down with metal workers, and at 12 life i decided to decay chalice on two since i have 5 reanimation spells that cost two, and only 4 that cost one, I top deck a reanimate and die. My friend told me I should have been more patient anf that it was the worse game of magic he had ever seen me play, and hes right. I threw that game but it was a good learning experience.


TOP 4

Storm (2-1)

Game 1 I have a turn two Iona through discard effect. I had a petal and a land so I would be able to exhume her turn two, but a duress took out the petal and I was dead the next turn.

I assume my opponent is a bit newer to storm since the amount of time he took killing me, he could have easily PiF me but when the ANT route which is just wrong. I side in my duress and pierce's.

Game 2 I am able to reanimate a grislebrand after being able to hold up a spell pierce with a petal, he later died to the 7/7 demon.

Game 3 I was on the draw and I didn't really know what to take out for this match up, I am very inexperienced with the deck and this was my first tournament playing it since I built it. We both keep and he leads off with a ponder, and shuffle! I play a land go, I have pierce and fow both up so im feeling safe. He ponders again and then brainstorms and passes. I draw and go to my discard and drop a grislebrand in the yard. My opponent tanks for about 5 minutes thinking about how he should play around the grislebrand. I had an entomb in my hand, and my whole trick was to make him think he was going to have to deal with a grislebrand but not a sire of insanity. He decides not to go for it and an entomb followed up with an reanimate on the Sire forces the hand shake.

I split the finals with the MUD player


Overall I really liked the deck, it is very powerful and has good game against most decks. I was lucky enough to not run in any karakas. I like the board plan with decays a lot.

I do feel like I made a good amount of mistakes and I actually had no clue how to board but I just need to jam more games.

[Stryfo]

Because I am insane and like testing new things, I have been trying a Keranos in my board. Before you go off and tell me how crazy it is, think about this:

1) It draws cards or bolts threats every turn, letting you combo again more easily.
2) It is almost as hard to kill as Aetherling, dying essentially only to council's judgment.
3) If you don't have 7 U/R devotion (lol) you can reanimate it through containment priest (or so the head judge at the SCG told me after double checking himself).

Clearly Keranos is not the best creature to get in a lot of situations (in addition to the obvious, you cannot use animate dead on it to much effect), but having access to one to entomb for seems like a big advantage if containment priest is the card you are playing around, plus a lot of the decks that play the priest have a few problems with infinite bolts on their dudes (or to their face).

Having only played it in two events, the scg in seattle which I got smashed in (not due to keranos, but bad pairings and the opponents always having everything) and a weekly, I am not 100% sold, but it has been very good so far. Just the next piece of technology I am willing to throw out there for anyone interested in trying new things.

[cogitoergosum]

hi everyone, (sry for my bad english ...)

it's been a long time i look at this very intressant thread and i've a little problem. maybe you could help me.

my list : 60+15

15 land:

4 US
1 bayou
1 trop island
2 basic (U and B)
7 fetch (U/B/g)

7 creatures:

3 grisel
1 elesh
1 iona
1 sphinx
1 ashen rider

the rest :

3 Lotus petal
4 Fow
4 daze
4 BS
4 ponder
2 thoughtseize
4 entomb
4 carefull studies
4 reanimate
4 exhume
1 animate dead

the side:

3 A. decay
1 archangel (for R MU)
3 needle
2 echoing truth
2 massacre
2 surgical extraction
2 duress

li'l explanations :

18 mana : 15 + 3 petal. no problem of acces to G for side even with the basics.

creatures : 3 grisel is enough to put in the sphinx (my meta is plenty of G deck like junk and BUG with lots of UR delver and RDW splash U for treasure cruise). The discussion could be on the sphinx vs archangel or [pro R/G and lifelink] vs [shroud and redirect damage]. In top 8 you generally have : miracle and DnT (1 or 2 in the room for a tournament with +- 80 players), with UR delver and a BUG. The rest is changing : merfolk/mud/elves/Jund ...
ashen rider is here to kill the karakas/bridge.

the rest :

8 counters
8 grave way
9 reanimate
2 discard
and 8 cantrips.

I think the list is good but i'm open to the discussion.

my sideboard need lots of work !

i agree with decay that's really good against lots of things but my problem is the in/out ...

the base idea:

decay vs W deck (with RIP)
needle vs karakas/DRS/relic/tormod/...
massacre vs hatebear (thalia, ...) but it's a ritual. (i m thinking at the priest)
echoing truth vs leyline
archangel for R deck but sphinx is not too bad ...
duress vs U deck
surgical vs U deck : i like surgical FOW before comboting

vs miracle i need to enter decay (vs RIP) and needle (vs karakas) but what do i have to out ?, the same versus DnT.
vs BUG i need needle for DRS and duress for surgical/extirpate ...

generally i cut the counters for aggro deck, that makes 4/8 slots for side-in but the other MU ... i don't see what to cut. any help here ?

NB: i don't like the show n tell plan, i play this lots of time and i really don't like it! I prefer combo fast with disruption or searching solutions for it.

What match-ups do you need help with boarding? I see you noted Miracle and Bug, IMO our two worst match-ups (also DnT), so I'll address those.

Since these are some tough match-ups, this is where I typically SB the most in/out. Working off your list:

Miracles: IN: 3 AD, 3 Needle, 1 Empyrial Archangel, +1-2 Duress (Maybe)
OUT: -1 Ponder, -1 Careful Study, -1 Elesh Norn, -1 Animate Dead, -4 Daze (on the draw), -3 Thoughtseize (on the play)
BUG Delver: IN: +3 Needle, +3 Decay, +1 Aarchangel, Maybe duress
OUT: -4 Daze (on the draw), -3 Thoughtseize (on the play), -1 Careful Study, -1 Ponder, -1 Iona

I only run two SB pithing needle and that works for me, but if you have 3 I think these are two match-ups to jam them all in.


Because I am insane and like testing new things, I have been trying a Keranos in my board. Before you go off and tell me how crazy it is, think about this:

1) It draws cards or bolts threats every turn, letting you combo again more easily.
2) It is almost as hard to kill as Aetherling, dying essentially only to council's judgment.
3) If you don't have 7 U/R devotion (lol) you can reanimate it through containment priest (or so the head judge at the SCG told me after double checking himself).

Clearly Keranos is not the best creature to get in a lot of situations (in addition to the obvious, you cannot use animate dead on it to much effect), but having access to one to entomb for seems like a big advantage if containment priest is the card you are playing around, plus a lot of the decks that play the priest have a few problems with infinite bolts on their dudes (or to their face).

Having only played it in two events, the scg in seattle which I got smashed in (not due to keranos, but bad pairings and the opponents always having everything) and a weekly, I am not 100% sold, but it has been very good so far. Just the next piece of technology I am willing to throw out there for anyone interested in trying new things.

What match-ups do you think Keranos improves over our current creature options? What did you take out for him?

What is your current creature suite (unkown meta) Stryfo?

[Stryfo]

Keranos improves containment priest matchups, it allows you to go for a turn two creature on the draw that helps set up for a second creature in the future. Because it is hard to remove and can clear the board, it can sometimes win the game on it's own if you can sit behind counters for the relevant spells. I removed Aetherling because he is weak against the priest and because keranos fills a similar role while simutaneously adding utility, playing around a popular hate card by itself.

The point of Keranos is NOT that he is more powerful than any creature against DnT or UWR, that honor goes to other creatures. But he does have the advantage of playing around containment priest and getting you to the point of the game where you can stick another creature by wearing down opposing resources because of his near invulnerability. Also, most people will (I Think!) try to get your Keranos with their priest, and then next turn you get to bolt their hate card.

My current creature suite is:
Main:
3 Gris
1 Jin
1 Tidespout
1 Elesh
1 Inkwell

Side:
1 Iona
1 Keranos
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

As an aside, my 75 is ALWAYS built as if I'm going to an unknown meta, that's how I like to practice.

[cogitoergosum]

Keranos improves containment priest matchups, it allows you to go for a turn two creature on the draw that helps set up for a second creature in the future. Because it is hard to remove and can clear the board, it can sometimes win the game on it's own if you can sit behind counters for the relevant spells. I removed Aetherling because he is weak against the priest and because keranos fills a similar role while simutaneously adding utility, playing around a popular hate card by itself.

The point of Keranos is NOT that he is more powerful than any creature against DnT or UWR, that honor goes to other creatures. But he does have the advantage of playing around containment priest and getting you to the point of the game where you can stick another creature by wearing down opposing resources because of his near invulnerability. Also, most people will (I Think!) try to get your Keranos with their priest, and then next turn you get to bolt their hate card.

My current creature suite is:
Main:
3 Gris
1 Jin
1 Tidespout
1 Elesh
1 Inkwell

Side:
1 Iona
1 Keranos
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

As an aside, my 75 is ALWAYS built as if I'm going to an unknown meta, that's how I like to practice.

Interesting. Although slow, I think it should be close to GG against miracles. It definitely seems worth testing. I'll try to jam some rounds with it as well.

Does it get around graffdigger's cage?

[Stryfo]

No, unfortunately it does not get around the cage.

[Nuke is Good]

No, unfortunately it does not get around the cage.

This is what I don't get. So Keranos can get around containment priest but grafdigger's cage still hits it. I would think both or none of those effects hit Keranos without devotion.

[Stryfo]

Containment priest says:
"If a nontoken creature would enter the battlefield and it wasn't cast, exile it instead."

If you don't have 7 or more UR devotion, keranos doesn't enter as a creature, therefore the priest can never see keranos because a creature wouldn't enter the battlefield.

Grafdigger's Cage says:
"Creature cards can't enter the battlefield from graveyards or libraries. Players can't cast cards in graveyards or libraries."

Keranos is still a creature card, and cage checks before it comes in, so cage prevents Keranos from entering the battlefield.

[FlyingSkull13]

I'm having a problem sideboarding, i can not figure out what to board out for what for pieces of hate, does anybody have suggestions to help me get back on the right track?

example, 3 abrupt decay in, 3 daze out for cages? or just a philosophy of sideboarding for this deck, its the only part that kills me lol :smile:

[cogitoergosum]

I'm having a problem sideboarding, i can not figure out what to board out for what for pieces of hate, does anybody have suggestions to help me get back on the right track?

example, 3 abrupt decay in, 3 daze out for cages? or just a philosophy of sideboarding for this deck, its the only part that kills me lol :smile:

It really depends on your configuration and SB, but without looking at specifics I can give you a few tips.

Always trade out a SB Fatty for a MB fatty, unless you think you want to up your creature count for SnT, but I don't think this is necessary. Pack at least 1 toolbox fatty in the SB (mine is Ashen Rider).

If you bring in SnT, I usually cut at least 1 careful study, sometimes 2 if "im boarding in a lot (BUG Delver). I do this because of the antisynergy between CS and SnT. Other than that, take out whatever reanimation effect is weakest (reanimate against bolt decks and deathrite decks, exhume against slower decks (miracles). Make sure to side out your SnT in the mirror, and against Sneak and Show/ Omnitell Decks. Note: A lot of people are coming to the conclusion that SnT is not necessary in the current meta. It was much more useful when Miracles and Bug and Jund were EVERYWHERE. I run 3 in the board, no maindeck

If you bring in City of Traitors along with show and tell, people usually cut a combination of fetches and maybe 1 lotus petal (if you have 4).

Have pithing needle. It is great. I run 2 in the SB, some people have 3. Use it against DRS decks, miracles, and karakas decks.

Try out abrupt decay. I think people are still divided on this, but test it out and see if it feels well within your playstyle. I like 3, some people have 4, but I opted for 1 K Grip as well (hits leyline, and wrecks miracles).

Usually, you are taking out 3 Daze on the play, and 3 thougthsieze on the draw. Obviously, this is not always the case and can be matchup specific. Example, I'm always taking out thoughtseize against burn. I haven't decided on the best configuration for UR Delver either, if anyone else wants to chime in. (I'm thinking it is correct to take thoughtseize out and leave daze in in both scenarios)

Other than that, I usually take out some combination of daze/ thoughtseize, 1 (rarely 2) ponder, 1 (rarely 2) careful study, sometimes 1 reanimation effect (e.g. animate dead vs. BUG), swap fatty's.

The key is not dilute the deck too much, and to feel comfortable with your configuration. 5 slots is usually enough for me.

On another note, I was thinking of taking out my 9th reanimate (animate dead) and replacing it with Lim-Dul's Vault as a means to search for the missing piece, as well as find the relevant hate if needed. Anyone try this out recently?

[DoorDie]

How can I upvote cogitoergosum's comment on sideboarding fatties... too many sideboards I see have no alternative targets, which is heresy considering how many games we win on the back of our silver bullets. We can bring any poison to the table we choose, it's worth thinking about.

I was going to type something about RIP and Show and Tell, but it now feels dated. I will still say that exchanging Show and Tell for Careful Study 1-for-1 is fine since they both get a fatty out of your hand. Personally I'm nowhere near Show and Tell anymore, and I think the all-removal plan is where we want to be.

Thoughtseize does seem bad against straight U/R Delver. Daze doesn't seem great either, but I wouldn't cut it arbitrarily. You can shave combo pieces, but always always feel the pain when you do because that will keep you from overboarding. Our spells are just naturally awesome, so don't water it down with reactive garbage. We can still race like a fiend postboard when necessary.


@cogitoergosum
I've been trying out Vault as well, and I can't see any reason U/B Reanimator isn't running it. Had a couple of copies in my childhood collection, and I can't believe how strong the card is. Let me pay some life to stack the top 5 cards...

As many may recall Reanimator was an absolute powerhouse when Mystical Tutor was still legal. Vampiric Tutor would be the same but probably far better, and Lim-Dul's Vault is essentially a 2-mana Vampiric Tutor. People go ga-ga for digging 7 cards deep with DTT, but how's 15-20 cards for the low cost of 2-3 life? Deeper if necessary, you literally cannot brick with Vault. The card disadvantage hardly matters since you can stack it with a Brainstorm or Careful Study and get the gas in-hand immediately when you untap. It's great postboard too.

I think the primary deterrent for people is that it takes until turn 3 to go off through Vault when we can consistently combo by turn 2. Which is understandable, but I would stress to those concerned that we are not a goldfish deck.

[PirateKing]

I've gone back and forth with Lim-Dul's Vault. In the end, the fact that it doesn't cantrip always ends up deciding it for me. For every game where I get a golden EOT pile into Brainstorm into win, I'd get 2 games where I was a turn slow or didn't have enough mana. Granted last time I rode that bus was a while ago, and any testing is good testing, so I support anybody willing to bring back findings.

The deck was a powerhouse in Mystical Tutor days, but that was based as much on the other decks available as it was Reanimator itself. Sure we'd get a major boost if she came back, but I doubt we'd return to those godly days in this meta.

[cogitoergosum]

I've gone back and forth with Lim-Dul's Vault. In the end, the fact that it doesn't cantrip always ends up deciding it for me. For every game where I get a golden EOT pile into Brainstorm into win, I'd get 2 games where I was a turn slow or didn't have enough mana. Granted last time I rode that bus was a while ago, and any testing is good testing, so I support anybody willing to bring back findings.

The deck was a powerhouse in Mystical Tutor days, but that was based as much on the other decks available as it was Reanimator itself. Sure we'd get a major boost if she came back, but I doubt we'd return to those godly days in this meta.

My inclination is that LDV would be great in a slower local meta, but that the amount of UR around means LDV might be a little slow at the moment. I'm going to be testing some things in that 9th reanimation slot, though, so I'll let everyone know if something works out :)

[DoorDie]

The deck was a powerhouse in Mystical Tutor days, but that was based as much on the other decks available as it was Reanimator itself. Sure we'd get a major boost if she came back, but I doubt we'd return to those godly days in this meta.

Agree with that, the fair decks are quite well-refined. Vault is still clearly inferior to its 1-mana counterparts, but playing with it gave me a taste of the power level. Tin Fins also runs Vault, though they don't max out on Reanimate and are a lot faster. I would not run many but the first 2 for me have been excellent.

[Nuke is Good]

To be honest when it came to Lim Dul's Vault in Tin Fins, I usually shoved it in a Chrome Mox for mana. For Reanimator the lack of a cantrip really hurts the card. In terms of speeding up the combo more I'm not sure how we can do it other than packing more one shot mana sources like Dark Ritual. Dark Ritual does have the ability to power turn 1 combos...provided you have the cards in hand which I imagine why no one uses it really. Personal Tutor sadly is sorcery speed.

[alaska]

Seeing Gemstone Caverns in some Players Championship lists.

Maybe I'm behind the times, but this is new to me. Anyone go this route that can explain why? Just extra speed on the draw?

If you don't have it in your opening hand or are on the play, it seems awful, as so many of our spells use U or B, not colorless.

[lordofthepit]

Seeing Gemstone Caverns in some Players Championship lists.

Maybe I'm behind the times, but this is new to me. Anyone go this route that can explain why? Just extra speed on the draw?

If you don't have it in your opening hand or are on the play, it seems awful, as so many of our spells use U or B, not colorless.

These types of events are highly metagamed and decklists make little sense in a general field. All you can count on is very skilled technical play from the competitors involved.

[DoorDie]

Well let's not just handwave, Joe explains the rationale here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xouR3W7MSqo&index=9&list=PL5d1KNNFArSPH2sByW7utr3KcINaQ7-E0

Essentially the idea is to "steal" being on the play from the opponent 40% of the time when they are on the play.

There's a lot of layers we could discuss about the card, but my biggest issue is really that Reanimator has little use for colorless mana. Most of our spells cost only colored mana, yet in 60% of games on the draw with Caverns (EDIT: 80% overall, assuming you always choose to play) you'll be tapping it for colorless. Daze needs Islands to alternate cast. These are universal downsides not subject to influence by what other players are doing. Those extra Caverns draws are so dead...

The acceleration seems nice, and the card disadvantage is affordable for us. I'm not sold that it's worth spoiling our manabase. Multiple copies are useless. He's probably right that it's underplayed in Legacy, but I'm totally unconvinced that it fits here.

[cogitoergosum]

Well let's not just handwave, Joe explains the rationale here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xouR3W7MSqo&index=9&list=PL5d1KNNFArSPH2sByW7utr3KcINaQ7-E0

Essentially the idea is to "steal" being on the play from the opponent 40% of the time when they are on the play.

There's a lot of layers we could discuss about the card, but my biggest issue is really that Reanimator has little use for colorless mana. Most of our spells cost only colored mana, yet in 60% of games on the draw with Caverns (EDIT: 80% overall, assuming you always choose to play) you'll be tapping it for colorless. Daze needs Islands to alternate cast. These are universal downsides not subject to influence by what other players are doing. Those extra Caverns draws are so dead...

The acceleration seems nice, and the card disadvantage is affordable for us. I'm not sold that it's worth spoiling our manabase. Multiple copies are useless. He's probably right that it's underplayed in Legacy, but I'm totally unconvinced that it fits here.

I'm 100% sure that lotus petal is just better. It always gives us the colors we want, does the same thing to give us explosive t1 plays on the draw, plays well with tidesprout, plays well off of grisel draws, doesn't weaken our mana further when we have AD. I'm not buying it.

The bigger things to discuss imo is that all 3 reanimator players eschewed SnT, and also considered 8 fattys to be the correct amount. Creature choices also seemed wierd to me. Anyone else have some thoughts on this?

[death]

Sire of Insanity nullifies Treasure Cruise, while Sphinx of the Steel Wind circumvents burn and red blasts. Presumably these creature choices were based on predictions of a very narrow meta.

[owerbart]

If I'm playing the Show And Tell package, should I still need to splash green for Abrupt Decay? Or will Echoing Truth do the job?

[DoorDie]

The Lossett build gutted 3 sideboard slots for lands, so it's hard to say what they would have played with those extra slots. I'll just say again that a plan B that doesn't get around the hate isn't worthwhile having. Containment Priest is live on turn 2, so you'll need to be on the play with a Petal to beat it with Show and Tell (if you can't Thoughtseize or win the counter war). Or you could just pack more discard and removal for the Priest, which is what CVM did.

Abrupt Decay is a strong card we can easily splash for, but I think U/B is still just fine. You just go back to fighting over Counterbalance/Chalice/hate the same as all non-B/G decks. I'm not OK with a 4-color build solely for Firestorm, that doesn't seem great to me at all. Where there's no Wasteland, there's still Price of Progress.

8 fatties is fine, 7 fatties is fine, I'm on 6... keep in mind that Entomb counts as 4 fatties (and always the best ones). And Sphinx is all about racing; dying on the backswing with a Griselbrand is a real thing against U/R Delver.

[shady]

hi everyone, (thanks to cogitoergosum for a tilt in my head for the sideboard)

a li'l report of my last tournament. the only things to say is : SnT was good but not in the actuel fast meta and abrupt decay make magic.

my list:

18 mana sources :

15 lands + 3 lotus petal

4 US + 1 bayou + 1 tropical island + swamp + island
the rest are fetch U/B!G

7 creatures :

3 grisel
1 iona
1 elesh
1 sphinx (instead of archangel cause i expected lots of R/x and BUG without liliana)
1 ashen rider

9 reanimate :

4 reanimate
4 exhume
1 animate dead

8 counters + 2 discard:

4 fow
4 daze
2 thoughtseize

rest are cantrips and graveway

4 entomb
4 careful s.
4 bs
4 ponder

the side:

3 decay
3 needle
2 massacre
2 echoing truth (just for leyline B)
2 surgical extraction (but didn't had time to test it)
2 duress
1 empyrial archangel (fo R MU's)

the short report : Belgian Legacy Cup at Outpost Brussels, 21 december. 120+ players.

Round 1 : JUND:

G1 / G2 griselbrand make magic.
side: keep discard to avoid extirpate, enter needle for drs and decay for the cage.

1-0-0

Round 2 :Grixis delver

G1: griselbrand
G2: i only saw the UR so i thought it was an UR delver. But he made: US, probe, cabal, turn 2 : toughtseize and cage ... ok i'm dead.
G3: griselbrand

side: decay for cage and surgical for counters with discard.

2-0-0

Round 3 : JUNK

G1 iona W with back up.
G2 he won (priest + cage + drs + karakas + ...)
G3 2 PN on DRS and karaks with elesh and sphinx on the play.

side : decay and needle

3-0-0

Round 4 :UW miracle.

wasn't a classical miracle. Was a really fat control. i didn't make anything.

side : decay and needle

3-1-0

Round 5 : BUG Delver

G1 : griselbrand
G2 : griselbrand + iona

side : needle on drs and decay for the rest

4-1-0

Round 6 : Tin Fins

G1 fast griselbrand
G2 the first to combo : he tried, he misses, i took his griselbrand.

side : surgical and discard, don't play exhume ! keep an entomb ico he plays exhume ;)

5-1-0

have to play it because i'm 9th ... :

Round 7 : UWR control (no miracles)

G1 he controled me too much
G2 Empyrial archangel
G3 empyrial archangel

side : needle and decay

at the end of the round, i'm 2d. so go for top 8:

D. Uliana and SnT:

G1 Griselbrand
G2 he block me and kill with trough the breach winning the battle fight
G3 Empyrial archangel (it's was bad ...)

side: creatures count so empyrial in, go for needle on sneak attack to force de SnT plan (and keep monsters in hand) and try to reanimate a fatty :needle and discard + surgical

Top 4 : P. Melin and ANT

fight for the first to go on.

G1 he win before i cast iona
G2 the same.

finally:

decay make nearly everything and is just better than SnT i think because it's instant, you don't delude your deck, it cost 2 and not 3, in a meta with full or Treacure cruise, people plays REB and it's bad for SnT. Decay don't allow your opponent to put on the BF a solution.
needle is a really good support to decay for karakas and DRS (mostly)
massacre : the problem is that a sorcery but it's good against all W creatures and kill DRS and thalia in maverick/maverick/junk. a li'l + just interesting. playing carefully
echoing truth : decay make the job, it's in just for leyline B ...
duress : cause sometimes you need more discard
empyrial : against R/x MU's where you always need more life than you have. could replace the sphinx, but depend of the meta.

I think that i had lot's of chance with MU (slow deck) and i often see my sideboard. Learning to don't reanimate to fast is very good. It's better to reanimate turn 5 after sideboard but with a clear way (back up and discard) than a reanimate turn 2 without knowing anything of the opponent's hand.

my 2 cents.

[Nuke is Good]

Went 3-1 at a LGS with a Top 8 split. The power of the deck really makes up for my lack of skill in the game.


Main Deck (60)
Creatures (7)
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells (37)
2 Lotus Petal
2 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
1 Animate Dead
2 Daze
4 Exhume
2 Show and Tell
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
Lands (16)
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
Sideboard (16)
1 Careful Study
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Flusterstorm
2 Dread of Night
2 Duress
2 Pithing Needle
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Show and Tell
1 Grave Titan
1 Sire of Insanity

Round 1
Reset High Tide
Never faced the deck before until now, I know the main way to win since its mono color.

Game 1 I attempt to bin Iona with a EOT entomb only for it to get forced. He simply had more permission than I did so I couldn't do much. I get BSZ'd for 70 something. Apparently reanimating an Elesh Norn would have been good in this game as he seemed extremely reliant on snapcaster mages recasting high tide.
Game 2 I get Griselbrand out and get him down to 7 but he starts to combo out. I keep digging for permission but I did manage to get my misdirection. My misdirection gets forced and that's that. It was a pretty embarrassing loss to me.

Round 2
MUD variant
Game 1 He drops down goblin welders. I reanimate griselbrand and he later on gambles but I wasn't sure for what. He faithless lootings and bins his ensnaring bridge much to my displeasure. I careful study and then reanimate tidespout tyrant. I bounce his bridge but in response brings in Nihhreal's (sp) disk instead. It all boils down to me bringing down Elesh Norn in the end to stop the goblin welder antics.
Game 2 He drops Trinisphere on his 2nd turn but I was fully invested on the show and tell plan. I bring down Griselbrand again. He drops a great furnace causing his city of traitors to get sacced, with that misplay he gets locked out of doing anything.

Round 3
TES
Game 1 I get a turn 2 griselbrand out. My opponent begins to start comboing out, he Ad Nauseaum's down to 1. When he had BBB and RR floating his casts burning wish and I counter it he immediately scoops. I probably should have most likely forced his Ad Nauseam looking back as he would have had no mana left and be hellbent after it.
Game 2
Turn 2 Sire of Insanity and all he has was carpet of flowers. Four turns later victory

Round 4
Burn: The deck that inspired me to switch from Jund to Reanimator
Game 1 Turn 2 Iona on Red. I took a huge risk reanimating Iona here as he dropped me down to 14 life, and Iona is pretty painful to reanimate but it was worth it in the end.
Game 2 Turn 1 SnT Iona on Red

Poor Grave Titan hasn't been seeing any action lately. I'm considering putting back Echoing Truths but I'm not sure what to cut, CoV's mana cost and instant speed to me is worth keeping.

[beebles]

I have gone 6-0-2 (id) at my lgs with this crazy insane stupid version of reanimator in the last two weeks. I just really like Chancellor. Combining a fatty with disruption makes your careful studies and hapless researchers much much better (more to discard) and the free daze makes going off on turn 2 very easy or forces people to do weird things like throw away brainstorms or hold off on that t1 delver/deathrite.

I am not going to say everyone should play this version or reanimator or even that it is better than the stock list but for my store (lots of D&T and ANT) this deck slaughters.

4 Chancellor of the Annex
4 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elsesh Norn
2 Hapless Researcher

4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
3 Ponder
2 Brainstorm (i know i know)
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Petal

4 Delta
3 Rainforest
4 U. Sea
1 Trop
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp

3 A. Decay
3 Show and Tell
1 Massacre
1 Perish
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Ashen Rider
1 Aetherling
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize

[PirateKing]

2 Brainstorm (i know i know)

No explanation otherwise? You prefer Ponders over BS?

[thecrav]

No explanation otherwise? You prefer Ponders over BS?

Seconded. In a list with 11 non-Ponder shuffle effects (plus ponder, careful study, grisselbrand, and Hapless Researcher) , I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't want at least as many brainstorms as ponders - to say nothing of having the full set.

[death]

Disagree. With only 7 fetchlands, Ponder > BS. If 8-10 fetchlands then no reason not to have the full set of BS.

[Kamus]

If I'm playing the Show And Tell package, should I still need to splash green for Abrupt Decay? Or will Echoing Truth do the job?

I see many players not using SnT package anymore. Although I think SnT is important against DRS-decks, additional kill condition, pitch for FoW and combo plan-B.
Abrupt Decay is BROKEN and I see no reason to not use it, even with SnT package.
I'm running this list:

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou

4 Lotus Petal

4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tidespout Tyrant

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Thoughtseize

SB:
1 Grave Titan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
3 Pithing Needle
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Show and Tell
2 Thoughtseize
2 Massacre

Thoughts:
1) Manabase: I'm running no basics. Wasteland seens poorly after treasure cruise, the card is not so common anymore and this deck uses 4 BS, 4 Ponder and 4 Careful Study, which makes mana screw hard to happen. The lack of polluted delta makes a turn 1 fetchland interesting against an opponent that doesn't know what deck you're playing.
2) Griselbrand: I see some players running 3 and I don't understand why not 4? This card is really broken and is far the best possible creature to reanimate. The draw-engine is too good to not make me to use 4.
3) Tidespout is better than ashen rider. And it's the best possible creature against DnT and Maverick.
4) Ponder: it helps to build a perfect hand and it saves you from mana screw. 4.
5) SnT: I'm running 1 in MD (instead of animate dead) and 3 more in SB. The reason is above the decklist.
6) Daze: Reanimator is very faster than Sneak&Show and this card looks pretty good to save your combo in the early turns.
7) Seize: I prefer seize to hapless researcher, it's great in turn 1 and it's still possible to use it in yourself to discard a creature card.
8) Sideboard: everything this deck needs is in here. Needle against DRS/Karakas/Jace/etc, abrupt decay against anything (except leyline of the void and jace), Massacre for meddling mage/priest, additional SnT and 2 creatures for "plan-B". Titan and sphinx are very good againt karakas also.

[death]

The lack of polluted delta makes a turn 1 fetchland interesting against an opponent that doesn't know what deck you're playing.


4 Verdant Catacombs

My inititial reaction "graveyard" written all over your forehead, and Reanimator is one of the few that plays this land.

[TokenMaster]

Disagree. With only 7 fetchlands, Ponder > BS. If 8-10 fetchlands then no reason not to have the full set of BS.Brainstorm has way more synergy with the deck overall because on top of fetchland shuffles, it also makes Entomb slightly better, lets you hide your combo pieces from discard, and gives you the potential to randomly rip into combo pieces and go off the next turn(or even the same turn), and it's also instant speed, which is huge. Ponder is often too slow if you're drawing dead regardless.

[limbo]

my list:
18 mana sources :

15 lands + 3 lotus petal

4 US + 1 bayou + 1 tropical island + swamp + island
the rest are fetch U/B!G

7 creatures :

3 grisel
1 iona
1 elesh
1 sphinx (instead of archangel cause i expected lots of R/x and BUG without liliana)
1 ashen rider

9 reanimate :

4 reanimate
4 exhume
1 animate dead

8 counters + 2 discard:

4 fow
4 daze
2 thoughtseize

rest are cantrips and graveway

4 entomb
4 careful s.
4 bs
4 ponder

the side:

3 decay
3 needle
2 massacre
2 echoing truth (just for leyline B)
2 surgical extraction (but didn't had time to test it)
2 duress
1 empyrial archangel (fo R MU's)

Why not split 1 surgical and 1 coffin purge, so you can fetch it via entomb?

[Asthereal]

Gave this deck a shot today at a small event. 24 people showed up, and we played 6 rounds, followed by top-4. I wanted to give Joe Lossett's tech Gemstone Caverns a spin, but I decided to put them in the board, and play Petals main, so I could switch, or play both if I felt speed would be key.

The list:

Mana:
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Lotus Petal /19

Guys:
4 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn
1 Iona
1 Tidespout Tyrant /7

Spells:
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead
4 Entomb
2 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
4 Daze /34

Sideboard:
4 Gemstone Caverns
1 Ashen Rider
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Echoing Truth
3 Pithing Needle
1 Thoughtseize
1 Coffin Purge /15

Round 1 - Mono Red Sneak Attack: 1-2 (terrible hands in two games)
Round 2 - Lands.dec: 2-1 (Tidespout Tyrant is amazing)
Round 3 - Reanimator/Young Pyro-ish homebrew: 1-2 (could have drawn this, but I tried to force the win game 3 - Grisel drew me crap though - mulled to four that game by the way... pretty sick I actually got that far)
Round 4 - Sneak&Show: 2-0 (terrible hands for the opponent this time)
Round 5 - Goblins: 2-0 (Elesh Norn saves the day - should have lost game 1 though, he could have Kiki-copied his Stingscourger to bounce his Stingscourger, so he could bounce Elesh Norn for the second time)
Round 6 - Soldier Stompy (!!): 2-1 (his Chalice gets me once, Grisel comes down the other games)

Total score: 4-2
(Could have been 4-1-1, had I drawn round 3, but I thought I couldn't get into top-4 with 4-1-1. Turned out I could have though. Bit of a bummer. Oh well.)

Since this is my first competitive try with Reanimator, going 4-2 seems okay. My play could probably have been better, but I don't think I made too many mistakes. The list could use some improvement though.

Findings:
- Gemstone Caverns is a nice tech. It sometimes works very well. Sometimes it just sucks though. After a mulligan you really don't want to see a Cavern! I lost a game because of that. Cavern got Wasted and I never drew another land, and my hand was almost empty because of the exile and the mulligan. I'm not sure this tech is the way to go. Perhaps there's a better home for the Caverns somewhere.
- Tidespout Tyrant is insane. I wonder why so little players have him in the 75.
- The deck draws absolute poop quite often. I think I need more Ponders to improve this. Not sure what to cut though. Perhaps I should go -1 Animate Dead, -1 Daze. Do you guys have any thoughts on this?

[Begle1]

I think Chancellor of the Annex is genius here... I will test.

Better than Daze in a balls to the wall build with petals and Show and Tell?

[TinkerRobot]

I played Chancellor of the Annex in this deck for about 2 years. It's great in Petal/Daze builds, but lacks in the slower configurations. I found myself liking Grave Titan over it in the 2nd non-legendary slot (the first slot being ofcourse Tidespout or Ashen Rider). In builds with the Show and Tell sideboard plan, it is a nice sideboard card to bring in on the play.

[Mhenlo]

I played Chancellor of the Annex in this deck for about 2 years. It's great in Petal/Daze builds, but lacks in the slower configurations. I found myself liking Grave Titan over it in the 2nd non-legendary slot (the first slot being ofcourse Tidespout or Ashen Rider). In builds with the Show and Tell sideboard plan, it is a nice sideboard card to bring in on the play.

I could see it being extremely good against storm.

[shady]

Why not split 1 surgical and 1 coffin purge, so you can fetch it via entomb?

the idea of the sideboard was :

a card that beat nearly everything (in instant, if possible) --> decay
a card that beat the rest --> needle
and free cards to be daze/pierce-proof and playable with thalia on board

the problem of a combo deck is the in/out. And i think that this sidetech was good for a tournament like this.

i know that a split would be great but i prefer use my mana to combo fast and keep free cards to crush my opponent's hand / graveyard.

coffin purge is great with entomb to kill any great card in a graveyard but surgical the Fow's of your opponent before the combo let you "safe" : you win the counter war and look at his hand ... so you know everything that you need.

and next time, the archangel will be in MD with sphinx in SB cause of the W.deck > R.deck in my meta.

hope my answer help you ;)

[jcsy]

Anybody thought of using Blood Baron of Vizkopa as the Sphinx slot, that protects itself from removal and has lifelink? Yes, Sphinx might be better but she doesn't dodge

5 life to Reanimate
Animate Dead will be bad
4/4 just out of burn range

Reason being Lifelink and Protection/Shroud/Hexproof together on a creature seems to be a plan

[clashed]

Anybody thought of using Blood Baron of Vizkopa as the Sphinx slot, that protects itself from removal and has lifelink? Yes, Sphinx might be better but she doesn't dodge

5 life to Reanimate
Animate Dead will be bad
4/4 just out of burn range

Reason being Lifelink and Protection/Shroud/Hexproof together on a creature seems to be a plan

Only problem is that the lack of evasion makes it hard to connect or have any favorable trades against large creatures. Furthermore, i doubt that it will ever has it's second ability "turned on" due to the fact that our deck inherently plays with life. Seems strictly worse as a 5 drop 4/4 with lifelink. It is immune to swords but can be bolted, which is what sphinx was for... red decks.

[Mhenlo]

Anybody thought of using Blood Baron of Vizkopa as the Sphinx slot, that protects itself from removal and has lifelink? Yes, Sphinx might be better but she doesn't dodge

5 life to Reanimate
Animate Dead will be bad
4/4 just out of burn range

Reason being Lifelink and Protection/Shroud/Hexproof together on a creature seems to be a plan

I just see myself having that in play against a 4/5 goyf

[PirateKing]

Anybody thought of using Blood Baron of Vizkopa as the Sphinx slot, that protects itself from removal and has lifelink? Yes, Sphinx might be better but she doesn't dodge

Sphinx is for red decks. Inkwell is for white decks. But test it and share results. Always test. Always share results.

And speaking of, anybody have any results using the god as not-a-creature target yet? I've moved myself into a Legacy desert unfortunately and haven't had a chance to get a single game in.

[Stryfo]

I have tested Keranos, though only a small ammount, and so far, he is great. Bolting down everything in DnT is not the worst way to win that matchup, especially if they don't have Mom.

[arrovian]

Apologies if this question has been addressed somewhere along the line, but I ran into a rules question during playtesting and was hoping someone here would know the answer.

I was facing Dredge game 1. My opponent went draw, discard a dredger, pass. I cast reanimate on his dredger to slow him down, especially since I didn't have an immediate option to bin/reanimate a better creature. I ended up casting animate dead on another dredger later. Ultimately, the dredge player got Elesh Norn into play, killing the stinkweed imp and golgari thug I had stolen. Does the creature go to my graveyard first, then transfer to my opponent's yard (which would remove his bridge from below), or does a creature brought into play by reanimate go directly to it's graveyard of origin?

[owerbart]

What do you think of this 75:

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Bayou
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Lotus Petal
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder
2 Show and Tell
4 Careful Study
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Entomb
4 Brainstorm
4 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Ashen Rider


Sideboard:

3 Abrupt Decay
2 City of Traitors
1 Serenity
1 Loyal Retainers
2 Thoughtseize
1 Daze
1 Tidespout Tyrant
2 Show and Tell
2 ???
I really would like to splash white for Serenity and Loyal Retainers:

Reasons:

1. Serenity, although needs to survive a turn, is a "catch all" hate, that does not target so no misdirection :)
2. Loyal Retainers lets you go at instant speed, while being immune to Spell Snare, Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm (also miracles has a harder time finding a 3cc)

What do you think? Also looking for tips for that last 2 spots in the SB. Maybe Boseiju? Animate Dead? are 8 fetches too low?

Any help is appreciated!!!

[beebles]

What do you think of this 75:

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Bayou
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Lotus Petal
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder
2 Show and Tell
4 Careful Study
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Entomb
4 Brainstorm
4 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Ashen Rider


Sideboard:

3 Abrupt Decay
2 City of Traitors
1 Serenity
1 Loyal Retainers
2 Thoughtseize
1 Daze
1 Tidespout Tyrant
2 Show and Tell
2 ???
I really would like to splash white for Serenity and Loyal Retainers:

Reasons:

1. Serenity, although needs to survive a turn, is a "catch all" hate, that does not target so no misdirection :)
2. Loyal Retainers lets you go at instant speed, while being immune to Spell Snare, Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm (also miracles has a harder time finding a 3cc)

What do you think? Also looking for tips for that last 2 spots in the SB. Maybe Boseiju? Animate Dead? are 8 fetches too low?

Any help is appreciated!!!

I always thought about adding white for a singleton Unburial Rites that you could entomb for. Loyal Retainers is nice against flusterstorm and spell pierce but it does cost 3 which is a lot.

Maybe you could cut out black entirely and jam a mix of loyal retainers, unburial rites and show and tells. If you did that I would definitely try to squeeze in some cavern of souls so you could make your loyal retainers uncountable.

[Nuke is Good]

Worldgorger Dragon is back! I was using this in Vintage to decent effect and for much fun involving a hardcast fireball to win.

The problem is Worldgorger Dragon by itself if I reanimated it here without Animate dead doesn't really do much. It's just a 7/7 Flying Trample that happens to hide our permanents and doesn't really change the opponent's board state. It doesn't scream must answer like the other fatties we reanimate.

[PirateKing]

It's something else entirely. WGD was always a combo piece to a different end, usually a game ending spell or whatever, infinite mana makes winning easy, who knew. We're really set on a combo of our own, but our combo ends with a huge creature in play to close out the game through glorious combat. Or concession, that's good too.
WGD decks might look similar to Reanimator, but they'll be their own spin, like TinFins or budget~

[HappyMiel]

Apologies if this question has been addressed somewhere along the line, but I ran into a rules question during playtesting and was hoping someone here would know the answer.

I was facing Dredge game 1. My opponent went draw, discard a dredger, pass. I cast reanimate on his dredger to slow him down, especially since I didn't have an immediate option to bin/reanimate a better creature. I ended up casting animate dead on another dredger later. Ultimately, the dredge player got Elesh Norn into play, killing the stinkweed imp and golgari thug I had stolen. Does the creature go to my graveyard first, then transfer to my opponent's yard (which would remove his bridge from below), or does a creature brought into play by reanimate go directly to it's graveyard of origin?
It goes back to the graveyard it originated from.

[Nuke is Good]

With TC gone Wasteland is gonna be on the uptick. As much as I like the green splash for abrupt decay, I only run two basic lands and I cannot justify a basic forest in the MD.

So the old ways in U/B were just bounce spells like CoV, Echoing Truth, and maybe Wipe Away to mess with Chalice strategies?

[Kirika]

@Nuke is Good
I like the Abrupt decay plan because it is a good catch all that kills most hate cards like Deathrite Shaman, Containment Priest, Ensaring Bridge, Grafdigger's Cage, Relic of Progenitus, Rest in Peace, Tormod's Crypt. The next best thing is Engineered Explosives which likely takes 2 turns ti activate and unless you are splashing a color you need Petal to kill Ensnaring Bridge.

I actually have 4 basics and have the Bayou and Tropical in the board instead of City of Traitors.

Worldgorger Dragon doesn't seem so good since it gets owned by everything normal reanimator does plus if they Swords your Dragon in response to the trigger you lose all your land permanently.

@beebles
I am not sure about splashing white Unburial Rites while fetchable by Entomb costs 4/5 Mana so is difficult to resolve period since we run so few lands and there are Spell Pierce and Daze. Serenity does not get rid of Containment Priest or Deathrite Shaman.

@jcsy
blood baron isn't worth it. Too small gets owned by batterskull and goyf If you want a semi castable creature Grave Titan isn't bad.

[Captain Hammer]

With TC gone Wasteland is gonna be on the uptick. As much as I like the green splash for abrupt decay, I only run two basic lands and I cannot justify a basic forest in the MD.

So the old ways in U/B were just bounce spells like CoV, Echoing Truth, and maybe Wipe Away to mess with Chalice strategies?

Counterspells and proactive discard is probably the better route to go than bounce spells.

I do agree with you though. With the inevitable uptick in Wasteland, I think going back to U/B is the right way to go for now.

[beebles]

I could see it being extremely good against storm.

Chancellor is good against storm but the opening hand ability is negligible since they can ussually just pay 1 for Petal, LED or Probe, but that might be enough to delay them by a turn.

[jvmauck]

This is a deck that I am going to be testing over the next few weeks. It a hybridized version of both reanimator of WGD combo. It's basically Reanimator with a WGD to go for the inta-kill combo. It's running slightly more discard than my normal list to combat Decay, which could be a problem if not discarded. What are everyone's thoughts?


4 Griselbrand
1 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Ashen Rider
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae

2 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Animate Dead
4 Reanimate
4 Lotus Petal
4 Force of Will

4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacomb
2 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Island
1 Swamp


Sideboard
1 Scholar of Athreos
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
2 Pithing Needle
1 Massacre
2 Show and Tell
3 Dark Ritual

[kihachi]

I'm new to this deck, so this might be a stupid question, but has anyone tried Children of Korlis as a target? The main drawback is that it's obviously no good on its own, but I see decks running Hapless Researcher so I did a little testing with it in one of those slots. The benefit is that if you bring back a Griselbrand and Children of Korlis, you can generally draw half of your deck and fill the board with fatties.

Maybe it's not necessary, but in my brief testing periods with the deck, I had run into life total problems such that getting Griselbrand out was not enough to come back and win. Has anyone else tried Children of Korlis?

[PirateKing]

I'm new to this deck, so this might be a stupid question, but has anyone tried Children of Korlis as a target? The main drawback is that it's obviously no good on its own, but I see decks running Hapless Researcher so I did a little testing with it in one of those slots. The benefit is that if you bring back a Griselbrand and Children of Korlis, you can generally draw half of your deck and fill the board with fatties.

Maybe it's not necessary, but in my brief testing periods with the deck, I had run into life total problems such that getting Griselbrand out was not enough to come back and win. Has anyone else tried Children of Korlis?

What you're talking about is TinFins, a Reanimator deck with a more combo-y finish to it. They'll use the instant speed reanimation spells, do exactly what you;re talking about, then finish with Emrakul along side the Girselbrand.

As the classic Reanimator, a few turns getting beat up will mean a Reanimate into Griselbrand puts you outside draw life, or worse yet, drops you down to 8 life. (Need to dig for Force? Sure go right ahead!) I run a 4-3-2 split of the reanimation suite, because having access to life loss-less spells is necessary to win a significant number of match ups. Filling the board with fatties isn't really required ever, all the targets put us ahead after a single combat step if not sooner, and we aim to close out the game on the back of a single body.

[kihachi]

What you're talking about is TinFins, a Reanimator deck with a more combo-y finish to it. They'll use the instant speed reanimation spells, do exactly what you;re talking about, then finish with Emrakul along side the Girselbrand.

As the classic Reanimator, a few turns getting beat up will mean a Reanimate into Griselbrand puts you outside draw life, or worse yet, drops you down to 8 life. (Need to dig for Force? Sure go right ahead!) I run a 4-3-2 split of the reanimation suite, because having access to life loss-less spells is necessary to win a significant number of match ups. Filling the board with fatties isn't really required ever, all the targets put us ahead after a single combat step if not sooner, and we aim to close out the game on the back of a single body.

Sorry, I guess I should've clarified, but I'm quite familiar with Tin Fins and was just wondering why exactly that tech didn't fit in at all here. You did answer my question pretty well though. But it still seems like a great card to draw naturally in concert with an active Griselbrand, OR if you've Reanimated any fatty and want your life back. If it doesn't fit it doesn't fit, but I was just wondering why exactly or if anyone had tried Children of Korlis in a standard Reanimator build.

[clashed]

Sorry, I guess I should've clarified, but I'm quite familiar with Tin Fins and was just wondering why exactly that tech didn't fit in at all here. You did answer my question pretty well though. But it still seems like a great card to draw naturally in concert with an active Griselbrand, OR if you've Reanimated any fatty and want your life back. If it doesn't fit it doesn't fit, but I was just wondering why exactly or if anyone had tried Children of Korlis in a standard Reanimator build.

Because if you untap with Griselbrand, you win anyways. Children of Korliss requires white splash, and it does nothing for us that exhume doesn't do. It dilutes our plan, and it makes it so we need to add white splash so we can play it.

[Nuke is Good]

Because if you untap with Griselbrand, you win anyways. Children of Korliss requires white splash, and it does nothing for us that exhume doesn't do. It dilutes our plan, and it makes it so we need to add white splash so we can play it.

The only thing I can think is decent with the white splash is the Loyal Retainers combo which can serve as a nice reanimation effect. But a third color is stretching it for this deck.

Also with Griselbrand to quote another user here:


Dread Return brings back Griselbrand
You have a Flying Yawgs Bargain. You pay life and activate.
He karakas your bargain.
Griselbrand goes to hand.
You dont care because you now draw 7.
Your opponent probably dies.

Sub in dread return for something else.

[DoorDie]

Because if you untap with Griselbrand, you win anyways.

This unfortunately is a very popular perspective on this deck. Why do we have other targets then? Against any deck with a Plains in it, Griselbrand has a tendency to pick up a plowshare and head off to the farm. Seasoned necromancers understand that Griselbrand often enough does not get there. It's totally matchup dependent though, so I'm not disagreeing with the statement in whole.

I think it's important to view Griselbrand more as a draw engine and less as the deck's primary win-con. Our greatest strength in my opinion is the ability to find the fitting poison for our opponent. Elesh Norn and Iona (/Sire) cover a lot of bases there. But the use of Griselbrand as a draw engine is the foundation for TinFins, which is what leads people to assume that is the only place for Children of Korlis.

Changing the deck's goal from "Winning with Griselbrand(tm)" to "Reanimating an Army" is something that's hit my mind too. When you draw 7, you will generally hit very little actual protection (Daze gets bad, leaving Force + Thoughtseize) but A LOT more reanimation. And as a combo deck we have one of the slowest kills. So to me it makes sense to try some hybrid approaches to resolve this structural weakness by bringing an army to the table rather than a single threat answerable by W (Terminus aside).

I'll pick up some Children and see if it works. The biggest sacrifice I think we'll have to make is the splash; it's not that we can't splash white but that splashing for 4+ colors becomes rather greedy with our low land count. A lot of people are on Sultai for Abrupt Decay, and I'm on Grixis for Izzet Charm. Wasteland's back, so I think cutting back to traditional U/B base for splashing white with Children is best.

I might also give Worldgorger a go-around if I find the motivation. My biggest issue there is we only have Animate Dead in common with his combo, but it's possible a Necromancy/Sol land approach could work. Any excuse to jam Buried Alive for me.

[clashed]

This unfortunately is a very popular perspective on this deck. Why do we have other targets then? Against any deck with a Plains in it, Griselbrand has a tendency to pick up a plowshare and head off to the farm. Seasoned necromancers understand that Griselbrand often enough does not get there. It's totally matchup dependent though, so I'm not disagreeing with the statement in whole.

It's a popular perspective because about 90% of the time you draw 7 extra cards, you just win. Because our deck contains only cheap spells, 7 cards means we resurrect another fatty, have force/daze for the swords, or we just draw 7-14 and continue our turn after they swords Grisel. Playing legacy isn't standard. Almost every card in reanimator besides ponder, brainstorm, and lands have a win-now possibility, or protecting the win-now possibility.


I think it's important to view Griselbrand more as a draw engine and less as the deck's primary win-con. Our greatest strength in my opinion is the ability to find the fitting poison for our opponent. Elesh Norn and Iona (/Sire) cover a lot of bases there. But the use of Griselbrand as a draw engine is the foundation for TinFins, which is what leads people to assume that is the only place for Children of Korlis.

I think it's important to view Griselbrand as what he actually is, a source of card advantage and a HUGE beating. It single-handedly beats all the delver decks and burn, draws you counters to win combo matches, and draws you out grindy control matchups. An active Griselbrand doesn't end the game on the spot, but the game is effectively over in a majority of games if you draw 1 time with him. That's something that I think people do wrong with the deck. Experienced necromancers as you say should realize that the plan is straightforward, redundant, and powerful. It is also successful because of those reasons. Essentially casting Grisel/Iona/Tidespout/etc. for 2. This isn't about drawing 14 and then gaining 14 and then killing him. In most situations, drawing 7 on top of Grisel in play means the game is over. Period. The enemy is bleeding out at this point, all you have to do is let him finish dying.


Changing the deck's goal from "Winning with Griselbrand(tm)" to "Reanimating an Army" is something that's hit my mind too. When you draw 7, you will generally hit very little actual protection (Daze gets bad, leaving Force + Thoughtseize) but A LOT more reanimation. And as a combo deck we have one of the slowest kills. So to me it makes sense to try some hybrid approaches to resolve this structural weakness by bringing an army to the table rather than a single threat answerable by W (Terminus aside).

That's why it's correct to build the deck to your playstyle. Given the nut turn 2 draw where you put Griselbrand into play, you would have drawn 9 cards out of your deck. Even if force or daze wasn't in your opening 9, the odds of them being in the top 7 cards goes up significantly. Essentially (6-7 counters in deck/50 total cards in deck)^7 cards drawn. If swords is your concern, you could safely change that exponent to 14, or you draw petal and brainstorm/ponder and you make your chances of drawing a counter higher still. My metaphor to re-illustrate my point would be that having grisel resolve and waiting for your opponent is similar to having chalice on 1 against delver. Most times, it's enough to win the game. The speed of the kill isn't what reanimator players should be worrying about, because that isn't when the opponent actually is dead. The opponent is actually dead when Grisel hits play, and you untap with him. He just doesn't know it yet.

That isn't to say that I don't encourage testing that goes against what has been tried and true, just that we should be cautious from making too many changes to the core tenets of the deck, which is putting fatty in yard, bringing fatty into play from yard, winning with fatty. Adding gain life to play more fattys in most cases, is win-more.

[DoorDie]

It's a popular perspective because about 90% of the time you draw 7 extra cards, you just win. Because our deck contains only cheap spells, 7 cards means we resurrect another fatty, have force/daze for the swords, or we just draw 7-14 and continue our turn after they swords Grisel. Playing legacy isn't standard. Almost every card in reanimator besides ponder, brainstorm, and lands have a win-now possibility, or protecting the win-now possibility.


You brick only 10% of the time on his draw 7 then, that seems incredibly lucky.



I think it's important to view Griselbrand as what he actually is, a source of card advantage and a HUGE beating. It single-handedly beats all the delver decks and burn, draws you counters to win combo matches, and draws you out grindy control matchups. An active Griselbrand doesn't end the game on the spot, but the game is effectively over in a majority of games if you draw 1 time with him. That's something that I think people do wrong with the deck. Experienced necromancers as you say should realize that the plan is straightforward, redundant, and powerful. It is also successful because of those reasons. Essentially casting Grisel/Iona/Tidespout/etc. for 2. This isn't about drawing 14 and then gaining 14 and then killing him. In most situations, drawing 7 on top of Grisel in play means the game is over. Period. The enemy is bleeding out at this point, all you have to do is let him finish dying.

That's why it's correct to build the deck to your playstyle. Given the nut turn 2 draw where you put Griselbrand into play, you would have drawn 9 cards out of your deck. Even if force or daze wasn't in your opening 9, the odds of them being in the top 7 cards goes up significantly. Essentially (6-7 counters in deck/50 total cards in deck)^7 cards drawn. If swords is your concern, you could safely change that exponent to 14, or you draw petal and brainstorm/ponder and you make your chances of drawing a counter higher still. My metaphor to re-illustrate my point would be that having grisel resolve and waiting for your opponent is similar to having chalice on 1 against delver. Most times, it's enough to win the game. The speed of the kill isn't what reanimator players should be worrying about, because that isn't when the opponent actually is dead. The opponent is actually dead when Grisel hits play, and you untap with him. He just doesn't know it yet.


There's a lot there I agree with. Where I think we fundamentally disagree is on the rough win percentage post-Griselbrand. I'll just say that how games play out for me against Delver, Miracles, Stoneforge, and the like is not anything like you describe. They are able to pack a lot more protection, so winning the counter war becomes non-trivial. If they're in red then Lightning Bolt becomes a concern. After they remove the pressure from Griselbrand with Swords, reassembling the combo is sometimes easy, sometimes difficult or impossible because of opposing pressure.

I also disagree on the speed of the kill being a concern. If you've ever played the Miracles matchup, giving them extra turns to dig for Terminus/Swords/Karakas matters a great deal in my view. I'm not saying that's the biggest weakness Reanimator has, but I do feel it's worth exploring as an improvement. Dig Through Time especially changes this dynamic as the fair decks now have a sort of draw 7 of their own when it comes to answers.



That isn't to say that I don't encourage testing that goes against what has been tried and true, just that we should be cautious from making too many changes to the core tenets of the deck, which is putting fatty in yard, bringing fatty into play from yard, winning with fatty. Adding gain life to play more fattys in most cases, is win-more.

I found your post quite discouraging as you stated only disadvantages to adding Children and did not weigh them versus the advantages. Children could well be a terrible idea; I'm sure it's been tried before. But again we'll have to agree to disagree on whether improving the draw engine is strictly win-more.

[Stryfo]

I'm all for innovation when it comes to this deck, but it seems to me as though adding white for (only) children is a bit greedy. If there are other reasons to include the splash, then maybe the children can find their way into the list after a white splash list is created. I remember people talking about unburial rites and loyal retainers, so it's possible that these cards can jusify a white splash. The question that I then have is: what matchups are we gaining percentages in by doing a white splash as opposed to a green or red one? I can imagine that a card like children makes burn easier, but that's not where I want my bonus points to be heading.

@clashed, I don't know what math you were trying to do, but (7/50)^7 is incredibly small(~1 in 800,000), and (7/50)^14 is much much smaller(~1 in 640,000,000,000). Honestly curious on where your calculation was intending to go though, so if you could rework it, that would be cool.

My 2 cents on Griselbrand: He is frequently enough to win the game on his own, depending on matchups, but when he is not, he can usually find the tools to win the matchup.

Children to me seems like a card that could be ok, but I think that to add it you have to make cuts from creatures, since cutting permission or combo pieces would decrease consistency or resiliency, and I can't convince myself that cutting something like elesh or tidespout for a children of korliss is correct (maybe you can?).

[clashed]

You brick only 10% of the time on his draw 7 then, that seems incredibly lucky.

Card advantage also wins games, as per my previous post. Bricking on 7 for protection usually means we either draw another reanimate combo, or other ways to win. We need to align our definition of winning because as of right now, your definition of winning the game is when your opponent is at 0. My definition of winning is when the opponent is down 7 cards and we have a Griselbrand in play. We EFFECTIVELY win at that point.



There's a lot there I agree with. Where I think we fundamentally disagree is on the rough win percentage post-Griselbrand. I'll just say that how games play out for me against Delver, Miracles, Stoneforge, and the like is not anything like you describe. They are able to pack a lot more protection, so winning the counter war becomes non-trivial. If they're in red then Lightning Bolt becomes a concern. After they remove the pressure from Griselbrand with Swords, reassembling the combo is sometimes easy, sometimes difficult or impossible because of opposing pressure.

If they pack red, all you do is don't block with Grisel, it's an easy thing to do as someone who has ever seen how blocks and attacks with giant growth work. Against Miracles you take the draw 7 and you run, you basically get 7 cards for 2. Effectively playing 2 treasure cruises. Hard to come back at that point. My deck runs 4 FoW, 3 Daze, and i'm thinking about adding Misdirection for the resurgence of BUG. Counterwars also generally take place on the reanimation spell, not on the fight for the protection of the fatty. Furthermore, decks that are heavy control that fight us on both reanimation spells and protection of the fatty usually don't provide any meaningful pressure because they would have wasted 3-4 cards out of their 8 to fight us. Including land drops, they don't have that much pressure. Think of swords to plowshares as destroy target creature, and your opponent draws 7 cards.


I also disagree on the speed of the kill being a concern. If you've ever played the Miracles matchup, giving them extra turns to dig for Terminus/Swords/Karakas matters a great deal in my view. I'm not saying that's the biggest weakness Reanimator has, but I do feel it's worth exploring as an improvement. Dig Through Time especially changes this dynamic as the fair decks now have a sort of draw 7 of their own when it comes to answers.

I acknowledge that Miracles is just one of those matchups that is bad for Reanimator, and Dig through Time certainly is a strong card, but they need pay 2 to draw with dig, than pay more for removal, whereas we only need to draw one of those counterspells in order to stop their answer.


I found your post quite discouraging as you stated only disadvantages to adding Children and did not weigh them versus the advantages. Children could well be a terrible idea; I'm sure it's been tried before. But again we'll have to agree to disagree on whether improving the draw engine is strictly win-more.

Advantages of Children: Leads to gaining life so that we don't lose to delver and burn the turn we draw 7... Which can be avoided if we just don't draw until we need to (something everyone should be doing anyways). Drawing 14 then gaining 14 is obviously strong, but that's where the advantages end because it doesn't do anything to help us win other then gain life-> drawing more cards. If you could win the game by drawing 7 cards - which is more than enough in most cases, why would you need to draw 14?

Cons: I believe is win-more, forces us to splash white, combos well with Griselbrand but with nothing else in our deck. Literally a one-of synergy with 3-4 cards in our deck.


@clashed, I don't know what math you were trying to do, but (7/50)^7 is incredibly small(~1 in 800,000), and (7/50)^14 is much much smaller(~1 in 640,000,000,000). Honestly curious on where your calculation was intending to go though, so if you could rework it, that would be cool.

Sorry, I didn't mean to exponent, but I meant that you multiply in that case. It's been about 7 years since I took probability. (6-7 possible counter cards in deck/ 50 cards total in deck)* 7 cards drawn, but the math is slightly more complicated. It is actually (7/50 +7/49 + 7/48 ....) Rounded up, actually leads to close a strong majority % that you draw at least one of those cards that you need. You essentially have a ~14% chance per card per card drawn to be a counterspell. and 7 chances to draw cards. Sorry if either my math or my explanation of my math is convoluted.

[redesign1991]

What do you guys think about Echoing Truth vs Abrupt Decay in the sideboard? Obviously Abrupt Decay is better in most circumstances and match ups. But wouldn't it be good to have 1 or 2 E. Truths in the sideboard for Leyline of the Void?

[Goose]

What do you guys think about Echoing Truth vs Abrupt Decay in the sideboard? Obviously Abrupt Decay is better in most circumstances and match ups. But wouldn't it be good to have 1 or 2 E. Truths in the sideboard for Leyline of the Void?

While I haven't been playing the deck for a very long time so I don't have a great deal of experience with it, I do run a 3-1 split of decay and echoing truth for reasons like you mentioned.

[Nuke is Good]

What do you guys think about Echoing Truth vs Abrupt Decay in the sideboard? Obviously Abrupt Decay is better in most circumstances and match ups. But wouldn't it be good to have 1 or 2 E. Truths in the sideboard for Leyline of the Void?

I do the same thing. If wasteland becomes too common I'll have to go back to U/B with a 2-2-1 split of Chain of Vapor, Echoing Truth, and Wipe Away. Chalice decks are an issue so I spread out my CMC costs.

[oracL3]

hi guys, i'm a new reanimator player. It's about a month that i play with this deck and it seem extremely poewrfull. This is my actual list:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Entomb
3 Exhume
4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
3 Daze
3 Ponder
3 Lotus Petal
1 Animate Dead
2 Show and Tell
SB: 2 Show and Tell
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 1 Inkwell Leviathan
SB: 1 Thoughtseize

Cause i'm not so experienced, i want ask the main strategy vs U-control decks beacause i have a lot of problems facing counters. In the primer there are some suggestions about side in show&tell and discard but what side out?? At my LGS there are 2 decks (miracle, grixis control) that beat me all times, what do u think about side 3x boseiju?? Thanks to all :)

[jvmauck]

Split first in a small Legacy tournament with this list. Never lost or drew a single game, outside of ID'ing into 1st/2nd.


4 Griselbrand
1 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae

2 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Animate Dead
4 Reanimate
4 Lotus Petal
4 Force of Will

4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacomb
2 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard
1 Scholar of Athreos
1 Empyrial Archangel
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
2 Pithing Needle
1 Massacre
2 Show and Tell
3 Dark Ritual


Round 1: Burn - Won (0-0)
Both games reanimated Iona and won the game. Pretty straight forward.

Round 2: Pod-Fit (Nic-Fit) - Won (1-0)
Game one, I kept a fairly sketchy hand, but I already mulliganed down to five. I kept a hand of griselbrand, Oona, petal, careful study, animate dead. Petal -> Careful study, didn't find a land. Luckily, my opponent was a little slower and within two turns I animated dead -> Griselbrand. Used Griselbrand to draw cards to get dragon + Animate Dead and combo off.
Game two, I turn two reanimated Iona name green. LUCKILY I chose reanimate and not animate dead because he was armed to the teeth with ways to deal with animate dead. Lesson learned = Reanimate is still the best, but animate dead will do in a pinch.

Round 3: Dredge - Won (2-0)
Game one, I was able to turn two WGD combo. Game two, my opponent slammed down Leyline of the Void, but within two turns, I drew my Chain of Vapor that I had boarded in and bounced it to combo off with WGD combo again.

Round 4: I ID'ed into 1st/2nd place. (3-0-1)

The deck felt extremely tight and I was extremely happy with the addition of Worldgorger Dragon Combo in the deck. It adds an "I win NOW" combo without diluting your deck down with less than stellar cards. The only changes I might make is -3 Dark Ritual, +2 Chain of vapor +1 Wipe Away in the SB.

[owerbart]

Hey guys, why does everyone think the Sneak and Show matchup is favorable for Reanimator? I'm going to play this deck for the first time in a tournament in march and I still don't get exactly why is so favorable for Reanimator.

What do you guys think of Tsabo Tavoc in the Sideboard for this matchup? It makes every show and tell they cast silly and kind of stops sneak attack a little bit, since it's not like Karakas where they can get to replay the same Legend, they need to have another one in their hand. Also 7 Damage with Protection from Legends means that it can deal good damage and sneak behind any blocker they may have.

[DoorDie]

G1 Sneak and Show has a disadvantage with Show and Tell since they risk giving you a free Griselbrand unless they probe first. Even if they put in Emrakul you'll be able to dig for Tidespout Tyrant to bounce it. And like our matchups versus a great many other combos, we are naturally faster and more redundant. Tsabo is interesting but lacks relevant evasion or an ability representing a massive advantage (think Griselbrand's draw 7, Elesh Norn's wrath, Iona's color lockout). Ashen Rider is a good alternative since it flies and can exile irritants like Karakas. Our alternate targets really need to stand on their own.

[death]

Tsabo Tavoc cannot defend against Griselbrand since the 'legend killer' doesn't have wings. I'm testing Avacyn, Angel of Hope against BGx (in a WGD deck), she looks promising and I like that she destroys Griselbrand all day. Of course Ashen Rider can do that too but poor cat is anemic on offense.

[PirateKing]

The biggest problem I have with the S&S match up is the same with TinFins, when they set out the Sneak Attack, maybe off at Show and Tell, in which case I get my Griselbrand, and they put out their own and draw a bunch and then also thrown down the Emrakul and attack for 22. Now granted, their god hand versus my crap hand wins in many other match ups, but this is the line that sees me with the most losses. So with that in mind, a sick Tsabo Tavoc does me absolutely nothing. Ashen Rider does more against S&S, and I don't even run it.
As others have said, against other combo decks, we're typically a turn faster, and run both discard and permission where they run one or the other to get their nonsense through. That being said, their nonsense usually ends the game that turn, and we're dealing with a whole other level of hate through the graveyard, but just looking at combo versus combo, the only thing I fear is the mirror. Against S&S, game 1 they risk giving you an opposing GeeBee, and attacking first pretty much breaks that symmetry. Game 2 & 3 they will have sided out their own Show and Tell, which makes them significantly slower while you're still on speed. They'll bring in permission and Surgical Extraction, maybe Tormod's Crypt to hate on you, but UR doesn't offer a whole lot post board that we shouldn't be expecting game 1 anyway.
You may stumble your first few games, but trust us here, after a few rounds, you'll be seeing what we're talking about.

[Ellistann]

Used to run reanimator with 3x grizzlebees and 1x Jin-Gataxis, but then moved to an area with no legacy...

Moving again soon, and wanted to know if this is still viable, or should I just trade for then 4th...

[Nuke is Good]

Used to run reanimator with 3x grizzlebees and 1x Jin-Gataxis, but then moved to an area with no legacy...

Moving again soon, and wanted to know if this is still viable, or should I just trade for then 4th...

I run 3 Russel Brands and 0 Jin's. Entombs basically count for another 4 Griselbrands as it is. I'm not a fan of Jin as he does cost 10 mana and he hurts like a mofo with reanimate, he kinda reminds me of Sire of Insanity but with the hand dumping having every turn.

[oracL3]

hi guys yesterday i went at a LGS for a small tournament went(3-1-0) and splitted in top2 Smile . this is my list:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Island

4 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant

4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Entomb
3 Exhume
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize
2 Daze
3 Ponder
3 Lotus Petal
1 Animate Dead
2 Show and Tell

SB: 2 Show and Tell
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Inkwell Leviathan
SB: 3 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

round 1 vs burn.
Games very easy. Both G1 and G2 get a second turn Iona targetting red.
Side - 3 reanimate +2 decay +1 sphinx
round 2 vs pikula
g1 lost due a mulligan to 5. g2 griselbrand and tidespout tyrant seal the deal (side out:-2 reanimate, -2 study, +2 S&T, +1 decay, +1 needle). g3 second turn griselbrand and gg.( nothing sided)
round 3 vs infect
g1 lost cause a mullinga to 4. g2 griselbrand and again tidespout tyrant did a good job (side: -2 griselbrand, +1 inkwell, 1 sphinx). g3 get elesh and after iona naming blue so gg. (side: don't remenber it Smile ).
round 4 draw vs mud. We are both with 9 points so decided to not play.

Top8 vs infect
G1 third turn griselbrand and gg. g2 bad draw so i lost by infect damages (side don't remember). g3 , griselbrand and after tydespout did the job. (side: -1 daze, -1 lotus, -2 grizzly, +1 needle, +1 chain of vapor, +1 inkwell, 1 sphinx)

A consideration: the foundamental cards in the side are 2 needle, 2 decay, and 2 S&T. This are the MVC (most valuable cards) beacuse are usefull in a lot of cases (exaple: in a bad situazione, 1 time i used decay on shaman then on my turn i reanimate it so i get the necessary man for casting S&T. it was usefull too because oppo stop to attack me). Al the other card are up to the player. I used 3x Boseiju as a solution (testing phase) to miracle and grixis control versus which i lost all the games played.
Thank u :).

[Amunshax]

I dont think S&T is good anymore, cause Containment Priest hits both Plans...

I dont think Splashing a third Color is good, because of the Rising of Wasteland...

[owerbart]

I dont think S&T is good anymore, cause Containment Priest hits both Plans...

I dont think Splashing a third Color is good, because of the Rising of Wasteland...

I like Show and Tell because it can create a win out of nowhere. But I'm not an expert in the deck tho.

I was going to ask about Containment Priest, how do you guys deal with it?

[owerbart]

About adding white, a few pages back I suggested about Loyal Retainers, because it bypasses Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm and Spell Snare. The other card I really liked was Serenity, because it wipes out every enchantment and artifact. The bad news is it can be targeted by every countermagic and you need to held with it for a turn. But if you manage to do it you are in good shape. It also wipes the whole counterbalance package.

[Nuke is Good]

So my local meta has shifted to the point where I'm being naturally hated out:

There are now 3 Death and Taxes players two of them MD rest in peace
BUG Delver with diabolic edicts
The three out of the four storm players are now playing some delver variant

There are still some burn and combo players around but the meta reminds me of Delver City Games. Right now I'm testing out a traditional U/B list with more basics and engineered explosives/bounce as a way to fight the hate.

[Barook]

How much does Leyline of the Void hurt Reanimator post-board?

I'm currently playing Sylvan Plug and I'm looking for satisfying SB options against Dredge, Reanimator and the likes.

I tried out E-Tutor + RiP, but it either gets countered, destroyed by AD or outpaced if Reanimator is on the play, aside from splash damage to my own deck if I run RiP.

[Amunshax]

@owerbart S&T was good before Priest, with Priest there is no advantage of Running S&T, i would just play some bounce in that spot. Discard and Counter are also good here.

[DoorDie]

How much does Leyline of the Void hurt Reanimator post-board?

I would say Leyline is the best hate against us in the dark. A lot of builds don't have ways to remove it, and of course it dodges all discard and countermagic. Pretty potent. If your manabase is like what's in the Sylvan Plug thread, then you can afford to hardcast them, which might in fact make them your best option.

[owerbart]

I would say Leyline is the best hate against us in the dark. A lot of builds don't have ways to remove it, and of course it dodges all discard and countermagic. Pretty potent. If your manabase is like what's in the Sylvan Plug thread, then you can afford to hardcast them, which might in fact make them your best option.

In my opinion Leyline is good but I've seen many players that rely solely on leyline, and the problem is that echoing truth becomes outstanding, so it's good to diversify your options. Also Show And Tell completely bypasses leyline.

I finally got a chance to play a semi-complete list yesterday in 30 man tournament. I was lacking some fetches and a 4th griselbrand but at least it was somewhat functional. Tomorrow I'll probably finish the deck :)

[Islandswamp]

I'm working on a reanimator list on mtgo. I'm pretty close to finishing it. As in, close enough I've won some matches with it. It's pretty sweet, I'm just learning how to work around the hate at this point.

It seems to me that show and tell is pretty good here. Just so you have a non-graveyard way to cheat a Griselbrand into play.

[TinkerRobot]

In the post Treasure Cruise banning meta, I'm shifting from straight UB to Grixis, which I had success with over a year ago. I think adding Izzet Charm to our lists will help kill things like Thalia and Deathrite Shaman, and I don't think we need maindeck Show and Tells right now (less delve... less grave hate).

[mewanyk]

In the post Treasure Cruise banning meta, I'm shifting from straight UB to Grixis, which I had success with over a year ago. I think adding Izzet Charm to our lists will help kill things like Thalia and Deathrite Shaman, and I don't think we need maindeck Show and Tells right now (less delve... less grave hate).

If your gonna splash red for removal isn't it better to just run lightning bolt? however, i could potentially see the use of having an extra counter spell or careful study.

[Begle1]

Surely black has at least a dozen ways to kill hate bears without having to dip into red?

[Islandswamp]

In the post Treasure Cruise banning meta, I'm shifting from straight UB to Grixis, which I had success with over a year ago. I think adding Izzet Charm to our lists will help kill things like Thalia and Deathrite Shaman, and I don't think we need maindeck Show and Tells right now (less delve... less grave hate).

I've always liked izzet charm as a card. I can see it being very useful, but it seems like it would stretch the mana base more, and be harder to cast with more wastelands going around.

[mewanyk]

I've always liked izzet charm as a card. I can see it being very useful, but it seems like it would stretch the mana base more, and be harder to cast with more wastelands going around.

I think you're right. One of U/B reanimators strengths is that you can fetch 1 basic swamp and 1 basic island and pretty much run the entire deck.

[DoorDie]

If you run at least 16 lands then the light splash for red or green becomes essentially free (8 fetch, 4 sea, 2 basics, 2 splash duals). If you're an accelerated build (14 lands + 4 petal) then you'll have to take your lumps one way or another.

I've played a lot of games with Izzet Charm. You sacrifice some speed for a maindeck combo piece that kills Deathrite Shaman and Containment Priest. Not sure if it's better, worse, or at parity with traditional U/B yet, but it certainly has its strengths.


In my opinion Leyline is good but I've seen many players that rely solely on leyline, and the problem is that echoing truth becomes outstanding, so it's good to diversify your options. Also Show And Tell completely bypasses leyline.

Naturally Reanimator has counter-strategies to the hate. There's nothing in the G/B band of colors I know that answers both graveyard and Show and Tell simultaneously though. If you want other graveyard hate to complement Leyline that gets around Echoing Truth and Chalice on 1, then Faerie Macabre might also be good.

[Islandswamp]

What do you think of the build with Gemstone Caverns? Instead of Lotus Petal? I'm not sure myself.

I've been working on Reanimator and nothing else as of late, but my time is limited. I basically scour the net looking for successful builds for ideas.

I'm not sure how many copies of Daze I want to run. I jammed my sideboard full of cards to fight the hate, but I don't know if I built it right or not. So far, it's been ok. When I get more settled in on a list I like, I'll post it.

[PirateKing]

I suppose it'll depend on why you run the Petal. I've run them from the beginning for speed alone, then because they played nice with Tidespout Tyrant, then because they were nice to draw off Griselbrand. Never really because they were rainbow mana. Even when goofing around with splashes, fetch lands always did a better job fixing the mana base. If you're building a base consciously not running Lotus Petal, and you're already flush with color producing lands, then I'd guess that's next card to use, but really, that's only after you've purposely cut yourself off from more reasonable options.

[TinkerRobot]

Went 3-0-1 undefeated at local legacy tonight. ID in the finals.

4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
1 Island
3 Griselbrand
1 Grave Titan
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh-Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Entomb
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
2 Izzet Charm
3 Careful Study
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Lotus Petal
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead

-

2 City of Traitors
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Pithing Needle
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Duress
3 Show and Tell
1 Massacre
1 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Inkwell Leviathan

-

R1 2-0 vs High Tide
R2 2-0 vs Goblins
R3 2-0 vs Elves
R4 ID with Jund (is a good matchup, but wanted to leave early due to inclement New England weather)

Obviously those are all really good matchups, but the deck felt super consistent and I was always fully in control of every game. Would recommend.

[Islandswamp]

Went 3-0-1 undefeated at local legacy tonight. ID in the finals.

4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
1 Island
3 Griselbrand
1 Grave Titan
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh-Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Entomb
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
2 Izzet Charm
3 Careful Study
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Lotus Petal
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead

-

2 City of Traitors
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Pithing Needle
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Duress
3 Show and Tell
1 Massacre
1 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Inkwell Leviathan

-

R1 2-0 vs High Tide
R2 2-0 vs Goblins
R3 2-0 vs Elves
R4 ID with Jund (is a good matchup, but wanted to leave early due to inclement New England weather)

Obviously those are all really good matchups, but the deck felt super consistent and I was always fully in control of every game. Would recommend.

Where in new england? The weather has been bad in Vermont as well. What is the plan for city of traders? Bring them in game two on the draw to power out Show and Tell?

[Islandswamp]

I suppose it'll depend on why you run the Petal. I've run them from the beginning for speed alone, then because they played nice with Tidespout Tyrant, then because they were nice to draw off Griselbrand. Never really because they were rainbow mana. Even when goofing around with splashes, fetch lands always did a better job fixing the mana base. If you're building a base consciously not running Lotus Petal, and you're already flush with color producing lands, then I'd guess that's next card to use, but really, that's only after you've purposely cut yourself off from more reasonable options.

It was Joe Losset who had the Gemstone Caverns in a recent tournament, and online. I've never played with the card, but it seems awful if it doesn't get a luck counter. He did good with the deck though. If you do get the turn zero caverns, it should speed you up as much as a lotus petal. Games where you don't, and you need a land but peel a one colorless mana source instead... not fun.

[DoorDie]

It was Joe Losset who had the Gemstone Caverns in a recent tournament, and online. I've never played with the card, but it seems awful if it doesn't get a luck counter. He did good with the deck though. If you do get the turn zero caverns, it should speed you up as much as a lotus petal. Games where you don't, and you need a land but peel a one colorless mana source instead... not fun.

To examine the card a little more closely, it's actually better than Lotus Petal when it works. Joe is right that having mana on your opponent's turn when they are on the play is really strong since you can Entomb on their upkeep, before they even play their first land. As you said though the downsides in Reanimator are quite high since it has no real use for colorless mana other than fighting soft counters, and it's not evident those games where it works make up the difference.

@TinkerRobot That's a very reasonable, balanced list. I like it.

[Islandswamp]

This is what I was playing the other night online. I wanted to try not having a splash. I've seen more wastelands lately, and a ton of Deathrite Shamans, which I kept in mind when picking cards. I only own two Show and Tells right now, I'm getting another soon.

1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Lotus Petal
4 Exhume
3 Ponder
4 Entomb
2 Island
4 Brainstorm
2 Swamp
1 Ashen Rider
2 Show and Tell
2 Verdant Catacombs

3 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
1 Massacre
3 Pithing Needle
3 Thoughtseize
1 Spell Pierce
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Surgical Extraction

I do have a list with a splash for Abrupt Decay, which I like, but again, I wanted to feel Wasteland-proof.

I played three matches last night before bed, then one quick one before work. I beat Dredge 2-0, I got a quick Elesh Norn, then a Griselbrand both games.

2-0 Vs Nic fit. He had turn one DRS, so I didn't crack my fetch lands for the first two turns (he was on the play, too), his second turn, he tapped out and made mana with shaman for Scavenging Ooze and Veteran Explorer. So, I cast entomb on his end step, got Elesh Norn out on my turn, and it was over soon. Game two, I had to force of will a turn one Shaman, but got out a quick Elesh Norn and GB, he scoops.

2-0 Vs a Hex Depths deck, not the exact turbo depths deck either. I thought he was on lands at first, named green when I reanimated Iona off of a careful study. He cast small pox next turn. I eventually got Griz going and win. Game two, we mess around for a while. He discarded an extra Dark Depths to a mox diamond. I played Surgical Extraction on Dark Depths, he thought about it, concedes as I'm searching his deck.

0-2 Vs RUG Delver Next morning. G1. I didn't have much, and concede fairly soon. G2. I went off when I had a couple reanimation spells I could play and a force of will, he had spell snare and two forces, I lost.

All in all, deck did well.

P.S. MTGO sorts the card names quite randomly, it only separates the deck and SB when I export the list. Sorry if it's annoying to read.

[TinkerRobot]

I think players should be wary of running Gemstone Caverns. While it appears on the surface to do what Lotus Petal does, I think it is actually much weaker. You do not want to draw it when you draw 7 off of Griselbrand. You don't need it after you've resolved a Tidespout Tyrant. Multiples are simply awful. If anything, I see it as a 1-of in the board. It could take the slot of a City of Traitors, for people who play them.


Where in new england? The weather has been bad in Vermont as well. What is the plan for city of traders? Bring them in game two on the draw to power out Show and Tell?

I'm in Western Mass. I play at X9 Games in Hadley and Worlds Apart Games in Amherst.

City of Traitors is good for fueling Show and Tell, but also comes in against decks with taxing counters (spell pierce, daze, etc) and I've hardcast Grave Titan and Sire of Insanity off of it an number of times as well.

[Islandswamp]

I think players should be wary of running Gemstone Caverns. While it appears on the surface to do what Lotus Petal does, I think it is actually much weaker. You do not want to draw it when you draw 7 off of Griselbrand. You don't need it after you've resolved a Tidespout Tyrant. Multiples are simply awful. If anything, I see it as a 1-of in the board. It could take the slot of a City of Traitors, for people who play them.



I'm in Western Mass. I play at X9 Games in Hadley and Worlds Apart Games in Amherst.

City of Traitors is good for fueling Show and Tell, but also comes in against decks with taxing counters (spell pierce, daze, etc) and I've hardcast Grave Titan and Sire of Insanity off of it an number of times as well.

I have been liking the Lotus Petals too much to not use them.

I had a Grave Titan, but I haven't been using it. I had a Tidespout Tyrant in the list as well, but I just have the Ashen Rider lately. I'll probably try to work Titan and Tidespout back in at some point.

Specifically, what decks do you try to get Grave Titan out against?

I'm still pretty new to the deck. I recognize what match ups I want Iona or Elesh Norn for, or Griselbrand. I only animated Tyrant once, and it probably should have been Ashen Rider in that instance.

EDIT
It won't cost me many tickets to try out Izzet Charm, so I'll give it a shot.

[owerbart]

I have been liking the Lotus Petals too much to not use them.

I had a Grave Titan, but I haven't been using it. I had a Tidespout Tyrant in the list as well, but I just have the Ashen Rider lately. I'll probably try to work Titan and Tidespout back in at some point.

Specifically, what decks do you try to get Grave Titan out against?

I'm still pretty new to the deck. I recognize what match ups I want Iona or Elesh Norn for, or Griselbrand. I only animated Tyrant once, and it probably should have been Ashen Rider in that instance.

EDIT
It won't cost me many tickets to try out Izzet Charm, so I'll give it a shot.

I think Grave Titan is great against decks with Karakas, because he's non legendary and can leave an impact on the board even if it's removed.
I like your list but only 6 monsters? I'm playing 8 and I feel sometimes I could have one more. Also I'm really trying to get a white splash going for Serenity and Unburial Rites. Serenity is great against a Meta filled with artifact + RiP + Leyline. It happened to me a lot that My opponent put in their first turns two different pieces of hate (Grafdiggers Cage + Tormod's Cript) for example, and all my Echoing Truths looked really silly. Serenity wipes the whole board at once.

Unburial rites may give some consistency as it can be entombed, transforming Entomb in both a way to put fatties in the graveyard and also as a way to reanimate them.

[PirateKing]

Grave Titan is used alongside Inkwell Leviathan against decks with Karakas, because the secondary threat there is Swords to Plowshares. Inkwell shines here, but Grave Titan is good in a pinch, you can apply some pressure even if you do get hit, and if they don't have it, 10 power isn't something to ignore.
Grave Titan alone shines in decks with Liliana of the Veil and Edict effects as their primary defense, and also gets use the few slug fest type decks still around. He's put on a winning clock against Tarmagoyf and Knight of the Reliquary when Griselbrand alone wouldn't have been able to give me enough life to survive more than a few combats.
In the end, Grave Titan fills the slot and the big dumb beater. 6 life gets you 10+ power to close the game out fast, despite having no evasions or other tricks.

[Islandswamp]

I'll give Grave Titan another try. Also, my list does have 7 creatures, but the strange order mtgo spits them out in put ashen rider near the bottom. I suppose he isn't much of a threat, but I always liked having an exile effect when I needed it. I tried to use tyrant in that spot, and I didn't have enough spells to play to use his ability to an advantage. I did bounce a karakas, but it wasn't enough to make me win. I haven't been playing the deck long, less than a week, so I probably gave up on grave titan and tyrant too soon

I played my friends legacy burn deck and things went very well for me, I also got one more show and tell today.

[Islandswamp]

1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Ashen Rider
4 Careful Study
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Show and Tell
4 Entomb
4 Lotus Petal
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs

2 Echoing Truth
2 Flusterstorm
1 Massacre
3 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Show and Tell
1 Grave Titan
2 Thoughtseize

So, I made a few tweaks to the list. This is where I ended up. Having no splash has made Wasteland a non-issue. I don't even have to fetch dual lands very often anyway. Echoing Truth and Pithing Needle do a lot of work and are very easy to cast.

I've been winning a lot, so overall I feel this list is at least headed in a good direction.

[Nuke is Good]

1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Ashen Rider
4 Careful Study
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Show and Tell
4 Entomb
4 Lotus Petal
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs

2 Echoing Truth
2 Flusterstorm
1 Massacre
3 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Show and Tell
1 Grave Titan
2 Thoughtseize

So, I made a few tweaks to the list. This is where I ended up. Having no splash has made Wasteland a non-issue. I don't even have to fetch dual lands very often anyway. Echoing Truth and Pithing Needle do a lot of work and are very easy to cast.

I've been winning a lot, so overall I feel this list is at least headed in a good direction.


No MD Thoughtseize hm? How is that treating you? I'm still on a tri-color build right now, I had a bad performance last week but I'm not chalking it up to the deck for now.

[Islandswamp]

It's been fine. Game one, I'm usually trying to catch them off guard and animate a bomb quickly. Game two and three, I bring them in as needed. I haven't faced a Delver deck or Miracles for a while (Which is odd playing on MTGO), but the real test will be if I can beat those decks whatsoever with this configuration.

I'll start keeping track of my wins/losses, and what decks I'm facing. I did beat a Landstill deck, which had quite a few counterspells, so it's possible that my build is decent.

I'm trying to get my MTGO clan to get a little bigger, to help promote legacy, and find people to test with. I also write articles for PureMTGO.com, and I'm planning on writing about reanimator for next week's piece. I was lucky enough to score a short written interview with a former member of R&D, and I'm probably going to fit it in as well.

Good luck, and may all your draw seven's be amazing!

[Stryfo]

I've been playing without MD thoughtseize for a LONG time, and my general thought on it is as follows:

If you play thoughtseize game one, what do you want to hit? Combo decks, and counterspells. The thing is, we are already extremely advantaged against combo, by both having counters and being on average the fastest among the combo decks (if the mirror were more common, I'd consider running thoughtseize, but reanimator isn't incredibly common). If you would nab a counterspell with thoughtseize, a reanimation effect would do the same thing (or sometimes more in the case of force of will). The difference is, if you cast a thoughtseize and they don't have a counterspell, sure you get their best card, but if it were a reanimation effect, you would just win the game.

The reason I compare a reanimation effect here to thoughtseize is that I am playing two animate dead in addition to the four exhumes and four reanimates, which is a slot most would reserve for thoughtseize.

[Islandswamp]

I've been playing without MD thoughtseize for a LONG time, and my general thought on it is as follows:

If you play thoughtseize game one, what do you want to hit? Combo decks, and counterspells. The thing is, we are already extremely advantaged against combo, by both having counters and being on average the fastest among the combo decks (if the mirror were more common, I'd consider running thoughtseize, but reanimator isn't incredibly common). If you would nab a counterspell with thoughtseize, a reanimation effect would do the same thing (or sometimes more in the case of force of will). The difference is, if you cast a thoughtseize and they don't have a counterspell, sure you get their best card, but if it were a reanimation effect, you would just win the game.

The reason I compare a reanimation effect here to thoughtseize is that I am playing two animate dead in addition to the four exhumes and four reanimates, which is a slot most would reserve for thoughtseize.

I'm thinking about running animate dead. I have ran it in the past, but I'm now using four exhume, four reanimate, two show and tell (3rd S&T SB). Thr point of Show main deck is to have a little hedge against the vast amount of deathrite shamans around. I'm not sure hoe big of a deal it is game one though, I've taken to using the tactic of not cracking my fetches until I can go off, which usually means they haven't realized what deck I'm on yet, and either use shaman for mana, or don't leave up green for the creature exile effect.

I suppose that Show is a self-contained fatty-cheating system, so it has some merit on it's own. It goes against the other plans of the deck though, such as Entomb and Careful Study.

One corner-case use for thoughtseize is to discard a creature out of your own hand, but combine that with a reanimate on one of your bigger dudes, and you could put yourself in burn range too soon.

[djjoseortiz]

I've been playing reanimator for the better part of the last year . Tons of wins and two 1st place at my local stores Thursday night events. I've played similar list to the ones you guys have listed on the last few pages. I've also played with and with out MD thoughtseize . I've played the gemstone caverns list. I even tried a main deck inferno Titan because at one point we had so many death and taxes decks in our meta. It was super effective BTW. My question is . Have you guys ever experienced long stretches where it just seems like you can't win ? The last two events I played in I won 1 game out of 7 rounds . It was to the point where my opponents looked at me looked at there hand and asked me why I haven't just won yet. lol The last event I played in I saw 1 reanimation effect in my opening hand in out 3 rounds. After brainstorming , studying and pondering my ass off still just not getting there. Am I just going through a bad run or is my favorite deck just not very good right now ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nuke is Good]

My losing streak is starting to bother me that I didn't even use Reanimator yesterday at the LGS, even with painter my 2nd strongest deck in the meta I'm in I still can't get it together. Reanimator has gotten me the best results in my competitive record so I'm back to seeing how I can fix the deck. This time I went for a more aggressive approach and aimed for T1 combos.


Main Deck (60)
Creatures (7)
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells (37)
4 Lotus Petal
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Daze
4 Exhume
2 Show and Tell
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
Lands (16)
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
Sideboard (15)
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle
2 Dread of Night
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Show and Tell
1 Grave Titan
1 Sire of Insanity

Thoughts on the changes:

It feels extremely weird to put Thoughtseizes in the sideboard and when would I even put them back in the board now? Combo matchups?
Depending on how testing goes, I'd favor Sire of Insanity over Empyrial Archangel mainboarded as a T1 sire is backbreaking and the Archangel is a defensive choice.
4 Lotus Petals sound REALLY nice with tidespout
4 Careful studies have never changed but when am I supposed to side them out?
BUG is coming back fierce so maybe MD Titan should be considered also

[Islandswamp]

My losing streak is starting to bother me that I didn't even use Reanimator yesterday at the LGS, even with painter my 2nd strongest deck in the meta I'm in I still can't get it together. Reanimator has gotten me the best results in my competitive record so I'm back to seeing how I can fix the deck. This time I went for a more aggressive approach and aimed for T1 combos.


Main Deck (60)
Creatures (7)
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells (37)
4 Lotus Petal
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Daze
4 Exhume
2 Show and Tell
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
Lands (16)
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
Sideboard (15)
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle
2 Dread of Night
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Show and Tell
1 Grave Titan
1 Sire of Insanity

Thoughts on the changes:

It feels extremely weird to put Thoughtseizes in the sideboard and when would I even put them back in the board now? Combo matchups?
Depending on how testing goes, I'd favor Sire of Insanity over Empyrial Archangel mainboarded as a T1 sire is backbreaking and the Archangel is a defensive choice.
4 Lotus Petals sound REALLY nice with tidespout
4 Careful studies have never changed but when am I supposed to side them out?
BUG is coming back fierce so maybe MD Titan should be considered also


I just cut one ponder for a main deck titan. I lost two matches today, and won two, but I've been winning way more than losing. I'm going to look at my log and see for sure. The games I lost weren't really in my hands to win anyway, variance and all.
Anyway, four brainstorm and two ponder has been ok. The deck spits out so many turn one or turn two Griselbrands anyway, it feels like the hand sculptors are there for when your plan begins to unravel a bit.

I'm pretty new to legacy, but it's more fun than anything else I've ever tried. I don't even have other decks, except a pauper delver deck. I sold out of the other formats. Once you're in, it is really a lot cheaper (on MTGO for sure).

I started with U/R Delver, during the TC days, then RUG Delver, sold that bought BUG Delver, then Shardless BUG (both bug decks I still have, and love), and Reanimator is my most recent.

I've had by far more wins with reanimator than any of the other decks. Not that they did bad, but reanimator is so powerful and consistent. Once you get a hang of a few of the tricks, you're all set. It might be easier for me because I'm playing online, so nobody knows what I'm playing and I can wait to go for a Griselbrand if I need to, to avoid DRS or draw a Force of Will.

[DoorDie]

4 Careful studies have never changed but when am I supposed to side them out?


I side them out when I suspect or know about Rest in Peace. They really price you into getting blown out when you can't clear the way. Thoughtseize is an easy swap since it's more versatile, though less effective as a setup card.

[Islandswamp]

When I was playing Bug Delver and Shardless Bug, I faced miracles all the time it seemed, and I won most of those matches.

I hadn't ran into Miracles for a long time since picking up reanimator, and it did not go well. I did make a series of what I thought were good plays, using a turn of multiple business spells backed up by counter magic, but my opponent just had all the counterspells, and hit a blind counterbalance trigger.

The match up didn't seem good, and made me think that trying the abrupt decay splash might be a better idea than I'd thought.

I really like the smoothness of the mana base with just two colors, I never worry about wasteland or blood moon effects.

I had a bad run of games, which got me thinking I need to make changes. Part of me thinks that it's just something that happens sometimes, I did have a much higher win-rate for the few days prior.

[TinkerRobot]

Went 4-0 at local legacy. That's a total of 7-1 in matches in two weeks.
Still playing the same list. I think it's just the best iteration of this deck.

R1 2-0 vs Mono-U Omni-Tell
R2 2-1 vs Burn
R3 2-1 vs Death and Taxes !!!
R4 2-0 vs MUD

[clashed]

Went 4-0 at local legacy. That's a total of 7-1 in matches in two weeks.
Still playing the same list. I think it's just the best iteration of this deck.

R1 2-0 vs Mono-U Omni-Tell
R2 2-1 vs Burn
R3 2-1 vs Death and Taxes !!!
R4 2-0 vs MUD

The only hard matchup I feel is D&T there. How do you generally board in hard matchups? Nothing too specific if you feel like it's too much work. And why is your build better than BUG or BG. I feel like it has the added weaknesses of BUG without the unconditional removal that Decay brings. You obviously have success though, so I'm curious which cards are over-performing for you in red specifically.

[Islandswamp]

Went 4-0 at local legacy. That's a total of 7-1 in matches in two weeks.
Still playing the same list. I think it's just the best iteration of this deck.

R1 2-0 vs Mono-U Omni-Tell
R2 2-1 vs Burn
R3 2-1 vs Death and Taxes !!!
R4 2-0 vs MUD

I'll give it a shot. I think it's not too much to finish it.

EDIT
Good job on the wins man. :laugh:

[zzregz]

Went 4-0 at local legacy. That's a total of 7-1 in matches in two weeks.
Still playing the same list. I think it's just the best iteration of this deck.

R1 2-0 vs Mono-U Omni-Tell
R2 2-1 vs Burn
R3 2-1 vs Death and Taxes !!!
R4 2-0 vs MUD



Can you record a video of your game? I wanna learn your gameplay. Is grixis much better rather than sultai build?

[owerbart]

looks like someone actually tried the Serenity idea:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16194&iddeck=120964

[Islandswamp]

I wrote about Reanimator in my article for this week, if anyone is interested. Comments or constructive criticism is welcome :tongue: :0::0::1::0::1::0::1: http://puremtgo.com/articles/legacy-lessons-back-dead

I have been testing some changes to the list since this went up. I haven't tried the UBr list, or sire of insanity yet. I did try Jin Gitaxias for a little while, I removed it because i wanted room to try other configurations. Jin did very well most games that I played him.

[TinkerRobot]

To those having trouble with the Death and Taxes match, I recommend taking out all the Griselbrands. I think many players leave it in thinking "at least it will draw cards," but reanimating it only to have it bounced with Karakas or tagged with a Swords to Plowshares simply isn't efficient enough to keep it in. I make sure to have several non-legendary creatures in the 75.


I wrote about Reanimator in my article for this week, if anyone is interested. Comments or constructive criticism is welcome

I haven't tried the UBr list, or sire of insanity yet.


Nice article. You've got a pretty good primer with good tips for players new to the deck.

Also I recommend giving Sire a try. In my estimation it is the third-best fatty after Griselbrand and Elesh Norn.

[JanoschEausH]

I really liked the article! I would really appreciate a sideboard guide! I know what to bring in most oft the time but i'm not sure what to take out in specific matchups. There are no easy cuts most oft the time for me. I don't know in what way I can board out business without diluting my deck.

Could someone make examples for broad archetypes like Tempo, Combo, Midrange, DnT and Miracles?

[Islandswamp]

I really liked the article! I would really appreciate a sideboard guide! I know what to bring in most oft the time but i'm not sure what to take out in specific matchups. There are no easy cuts most oft the time for me. I don't know in what way I can board out business without diluting my deck.

Could someone make examples for broad archetypes like Tempo, Combo, Midrange, DnT and Miracles?

Thank you very much! Tinker Robot, thanks as well. It's nice to hear comments from other Legacy players. It makes it much easier to do one of these each week when I know that at least some people enjoyed it!

With sideboards, my problems are as follows:

If I get blown out by a random card, that is not very popular, I still have the urge to try and find a way to shore up the issue with a new main deck or sideboard card. This isn't a good approach, as you can't win every game anyway, and you have to prepare for the most common cases, not have one silver for each corner case. You can't run 75 different silver bullets, after all.

Sometimes, I struggle with what to take out as well. I have found that keeping the overall numbers of each category of cards the same or close to it is important. For instance, I main deck ten ways to cheat a fatty, so between Show and Tell and reanimation spells, I try to stay at that number. Also, I've been going up to four Show and Tells after sideboarding, so I'll cut a Careful Study or two, along with an Exhume, because Show and Tell wants you to have a fatty in hand, which Careful Study goes against.

I hope that helps, and I will have more in depth stuff at some point in the future.

Thanks again for reading!

P.S. feel free to leave comments on PureMTGO too, it let's people know that people are interested in my stuff.

[Islandswamp]

Bad beat city tonight. I lost a bunch of matches, mostly to hate or variance. I don't want to give up on the deck, because I've had exactly the opposite happen too. It's just very frustrating.

Also, I played my second mirror match, and lost that one too, 2-1 (I won game one in a lot of my matches at least). Game three, my opponent kept a no land hand and won. I was dumb and played careful study on my turn, he plays lotus petal and reanimate on my Iona. I Daze, but he has force. I'm annoyed, but who keeps a hand like that? It's not a good hand to keep.

I should have gone to bed sooner, but I hate going to sleep right after I lose, so I just beat some dredge deck (with show and tell to get around leyline of the void game two), and now I can sleep better.

[Islandswamp]

To those having trouble with the Death and Taxes match, I recommend taking out all the Griselbrands. I think many players leave it in thinking "at least it will draw cards," but reanimating it only to have it bounced with Karakas or tagged with a Swords to Plowshares simply isn't efficient enough to keep it in. I make sure to have several non-legendary creatures in the 75.




Nice article. You've got a pretty good primer with good tips for players new to the deck.

Also I recommend giving Sire a try. In my estimation it is the third-best fatty after Griselbrand and Elesh Norn.

No love for Jin Gitaxias?
I tried him for a little bit. It was ok. Space in the deck is an issue though, and I ultimately cut him. If he wasn't legendary, I'd be all about it. The seven cards is free, can't be pithing needled, and forcing your opponent to discard their hand is awesome. I don't think I ever untapped with Jin and lost that game.

[Nuke is Good]

No love for Jin Gitaxias?
I tried him for a little bit. It was ok. Space in the deck is an issue though, and I ultimately cut him. If he wasn't legendary, I'd be all about it. The seven cards is free, can't be pithing needled, and forcing your opponent to discard their hand is awesome. I don't think I ever untapped with Jin and lost that game.

Jin forces you to draw 7 cards, he costs 10 mana which makes reanimate painful, he's legendary,and the hand discard on your opponent happens on their turn which is sometimes too late.

Griselbrand and Sire of Insanity fill those roles better.


Reanimator did manage to beat my terrible losing streak going back to 2-2 instead of 0-4 and 1-3. Though...losing to PSI is pretty bad. It was my mistake attempting to race that deck.

[TinkerRobot]

I'm annoyed, but who keeps a hand like that? It's not a good hand to keep.

I think this attitude is part of the problem. I keep lots of 0 land hands. We're a combo deck with Lotus Petals, and we can discard a fatty to hand size.

[PirateKing]

Also, I played my second mirror match, and lost that one too

Did you guys know it was the mirror when he kept zero lands?

Because if he knew, that wouldn't have been that outlandish. The mirror is a staring contest, whoever tries to go for it first ends up loosing. Inevitably, the reanimation effects get countered to death, and your creature comes back to kill you. If my hand was Lotus Petal, Reanimate and double Force, I could see myself running that. Sure land would be better, but for the line I was anticipating, and what you experienced, it worked well enough.

[Islandswamp]

Did you guys know it was the mirror when he kept zero lands?

Because if he knew, that wouldn't have been that outlandish. The mirror is a staring contest, whoever tries to go for it first ends up loosing. Inevitably, the reanimation effects get countered to death, and your creature comes back to kill you. If my hand was Lotus Petal, Reanimate and double Force, I could see myself running that. Sure land would be better, but for the line I was anticipating, and what you experienced, it worked well enough.

Yes, I was just salty. I had no experience with the mirror, and played badly. I'll learn to play differently in the future :cool:

I was having a miserable night, I'd won game one, not knowing exactly what he was playing, game two, he won by surprising me.

I've kept no land hands before, but it seemed like a terrible move. I had two lotus petals and everything I needed to go off, and lost because I failed to hit a land. So, I suppose that factored into my annoyance.

The two mirror matches I've played, I won game one both times, then lost the match. And I lost to dumb plays like entombing a creature and having my opponent reanimate it.

[Islandswamp]

Jin forces you to draw 7 cards, he costs 10 mana which makes reanimate painful, he's legendary,and the hand discard on your opponent happens on their turn which is sometimes too late.

Griselbrand and Sire of Insanity fill those roles better.


Reanimator did manage to beat my terrible losing streak going back to 2-2 instead of 0-4 and 1-3. Though...losing to PSI is pretty bad. It was my mistake attempting to race that deck.

What is PSI?

[Islandswamp]

Did you guys know it was the mirror when he kept zero lands?

Because if he knew, that wouldn't have been that outlandish. The mirror is a staring contest, whoever tries to go for it first ends up loosing. Inevitably, the reanimation effects get countered to death, and your creature comes back to kill you. If my hand was Lotus Petal, Reanimate and double Force, I could see myself running that. Sure land would be better, but for the line I was anticipating, and what you experienced, it worked well enough.

Yes, he did. I Had double Daze, Reanimate, Entomb. I Figured the Daze would help, so I entombed turn one like an idiot. My bad. Won't be so dumb in the future.

[Nuke is Good]

What is PSI?

Pact Spanish Inquisition, sorta plays like belcher.

[Islandswamp]

Pact Spanish Inquisition, sorta plays like belcher.

weird. I'll google it. --- That is a strange looking glass-cannon. I don't know how I feel about those landless turn-one-or-bust decks.

Anyway... I sold some cards and bought two city of traitors for my sideboard. My deck now goes up to four S&T post-board w/ the 2 cities. It's been good so far.

Things have been turning around for me, I won all my matches today. Which is good. :laugh:

[PirateKing]

Yes, he did. I Had double Daze, Reanimate, Entomb. I Figured the Daze would help, so I entombed turn one like an idiot. My bad. Won't be so dumb in the future.

The mirror is one of my least favorite match ups. The most effective strategy I've found is to stock up on counters to fight their reanimation then get their creature on your side. Problem is, both of us end up doing this and then we just sit across from each other, playing draw go, trying to sculpt the godliest of god hands, but inevitably, whoever goes for it is one Daze short, and ends up seeing their own Griselbrand kill them.

[zzregz]

Hi guys...


I made a cool build.




1 elesh norn
3 griselbrand
1 iona
1 inkwell L
1 tidespout T
(7 creature)

4 fow
4 daze
4 thoughtseize
4 brainstorm
4 c study
3 ponder
4 entomb
4 exhume
4 reanimate
4 lotus p
(39 other spell)

4 p delta
2 m flats
2 f strand
2 underground s
1 tundra
1 scrubland
1 island
1 swamp
(14 land)


Sideboard:
3 serenity
2 disenchant
3 show and tell
2 surgical
2 meddling mage
1 ashen rider
2 p needle




At first it was hard for me to splash white, i was just curios to serenity but i saw what it could and i was so amaze. And putting meddling mage as sb is big help... I hope you like my build. :)

[Nuke is Good]

Hi guys...


I made a cool build.




1 elesh norn
3 griselbrand
1 iona
1 inkwell L
1 tidespout T
(7 creature)

4 fow
4 daze
4 thoughtseize
4 brainstorm
4 c study
3 ponder
4 entomb
4 exhume
4 reanimate
4 lotus p
(39 other spell)

4 p delta
2 m flats
2 f strand
2 underground s
1 tundra
1 scrubland
1 island
1 swamp
(14 land)


Sideboard:
3 serenity
2 disenchant
3 show and tell
2 surgical
2 meddling mage
1 ashen rider
2 p needle




At first it was hard for me to splash white, i was just curios to serenity but i saw what it could and i was so amaze. And putting meddling mage as sb is big help... I hope you like my build. :)


I like the white splash but my concern is it lacks ways to remove creature based hate like containment priest and DRS which the green splash in abrupt decays helps in. Though, it does let you play with Loyal Retainers.

[mewanyk]

Nice to see the reanimator did really well this weekend at SCG! 2 top 8's and 1 gemstone caverns list and 1 lotus petal accelerated list.

Maybe I wrote gemstone caverns off too quickly, has anyone else been having success with it? Currently I've been playing the version with petals and have done really well, and the times I tried the caverns version it was the opposite. Maybe I'm just not playing it right?

[DoorDie]

Nice to see the reanimator did really well this weekend at SCG! 2 top 8's and 1 gemstone caverns list and 1 lotus petal accelerated list.

Maybe I wrote gemstone caverns off too quickly, has anyone else been having success with it? Currently I've been playing the version with petals and have done really well, and the times I tried the caverns version it was the opposite. Maybe I'm just not playing it right?

Doubtful. I'm not against spice in general, but Caverns has too many downsides. I haven't tried it for the record, but if Caverns actually matters then I must be losing a lot more games where I open with the full combo than I realize.

[TinkerRobot]

No love for Jin Gitaxias?
I tried him for a little bit. It was ok. Space in the deck is an issue though, and I ultimately cut him. If he wasn't legendary, I'd be all about it. The seven cards is free, can't be pithing needled, and forcing your opponent to discard their hand is awesome. I don't think I ever untapped with Jin and lost that game.

I'm not a fan of Jin Gitaxias because your opponent gets an entire turn cycle to answer him. With Sire of Insanity, my opponent doesn't get to untap or draw a card before discarding their hand. Also, 6 life loss is negligible compared to 10 off of Reanimate.

4-0'd my weekly legacy again tonight after a sad 1-3 last week. This brings me to 12-4 in matches in the last 4 weeks.

Played against Miracles in the finals, and barely squeaked out a win in game 2. What are people's opinions on the Miracles matchup? I felt like I had a large number of cards I wanted to bring in (Show and Tell + City of Traitors package, Pyroblast, Pithing Needle, Inkwell Leviathan etc) and not many obvious cards to side out.

[DoorDie]

Like Regal Force in Elves, Jin-Gitaxias really is a thing of the past. It's fine for people to try for themselves or use him as a budget option (like if you already own him). But the immediate draw, lifelink, and flying of Griselbrand really do outclass the discard that Jin brings to the table.

@TinkerRobot
The friend I play with regularly plays Miracles, and we find the matchup to be roughly even. G1 Reanimator has a keen edge, but postboard the games get grindy and difficult since Miracles is built to grind. The Abrupt Decay splash shines in this matchup for me when I ran it. Boarding a lot of cards is expected.

[jcsy]

I found this article on the Sneak and Show forums, which briefly talks about Reanimator as well

http://puremtgo.com/articles/legacy-lessons-get-sneaky

[Rood]

So I'll be playing in the SCG 5k IQ tomorrow and was wondering if you guys think Reverent Silence should
be worth considering in the SB. Mind you I play a GB variant not similiar to the lists posted in this thread so obtaining the
forest is generally not a problem. I think that it might be extremely helpful in combating the ever terrible miracles matchup?
Thoughts

[Nuke is Good]

So I'll be playing in the SCG 5k IQ tomorrow and was wondering if you guys think Reverent Silence should
be worth considering in the SB. Mind you I play a GB variant not similiar to the lists posted in this thread so obtaining the
forest is generally not a problem. I think that it might be extremely helpful in combating the ever terrible miracles matchup?
Thoughts

A GB variant I'd just run only abrupt decays. What troublesome enchantments does Reanimator need to worry about that is outside of Abrupt Decay range? The only ones I can think of are: Leyline of the Void, Humility, Moat (sorta), and that's about it. Also that six life kinda is a deal breaker.

For the miracles matchup I'd just use evasive fatties like Empyrial Archangel, Aetherling, or Inkwell Leviathan. If your meta is heavy on Miracles then the last two cards would be good.

[DoorDie]

Leyline is a big deal when it hits. Usually you can just say "ya got me" and move on since most people don't run that card, but in some metas I think you definitely need an answer to it.

Our Decays are certainly taxed in the Miracles matchup (which is somewhat odd). We don't run much other removal so if they're bringing in Tupperware Priests + RIP AND they're leaving in Counterbalance, then a singleton Reverent Silence starts to make a lot of sense. It's one of our difficult matchups, and many Miracles players focus on winning the stack so unfortunately a diversity in fatties isn't enough to close the gap a lot of the time.

I don't think the lifegain matters at all compared to the effect granted. And against Miracles we'll have plenty of opportunities to hardcast it.

[owerbart]

Hi folks I made top8 in a small legacy tournament last saturday. Happy to see the deck working.

R1: Enchantress

g1: I mull to 6 and I keep a very good hand if a blue source come, which does not, lol. I only play a swamp and he lands t2 RIP which is very hurtful. I keep playing that game until i eventually realize I'm playing against enchantress and I concede
g2: i draw kind of a perfect hand with a t2 Griselbrand with FoW backup. It manages to race his build up. Accidentally before the game starts my opponent shuffles my deck and flips Serenity, I said no problem but he calls the judge and gets a warning, fair play by him. Just for insurance I land a Serenity which would've nuked his board next turn
g3: i keep a strong 7 and I just draw and discard Iona. he lands RIP but i have FoW it's over from there.

R2: Maverick

g1: I land a T2 Griselbrand that gets plowed but I draw enough cards to reanimate a second and protect it with Daze :)
g2: he goes horizon canopy->gsz->dryad arbor. i thoughtseize myself , taking sire of insanity, and then reanimate it, all turn one, which proves to be good since he had a sword but couldn't cast it, so it gets discarded by sire and it's enough from there to take a win

R3: Merfolk
g1: he lands cursecatcher t1 and I cast thoughtseize, which rarely, he sacks the catcher to. t2 he plays a lord of atlantis and at the end of his t3 I entomb for iona and exhume it, shutting his hand.
g2: i mull to 6. he goes island pass. i go u.sea->entomb, petal reanimate. he dazes, i daze, he FoWs D: . he then lands a chalice in 1 and it's downhill from there.
g3: i start with thoughtseize myself->griselbrand->petal->reanimate with daze backup, which trades with his FoW. from there griselbrand manages to beat him down.

R4: Dredge (this player won the tournament)

g1: i mull to 5 and keep a hand which the only thing it can do is showing a Tidespout Tyrant t3 without any spells to bounce stuff. he dredges and luckily he doesn't name SnT with his therapy, but because i have only a tyrant with no spells to abuse I get blown the fuck out by ichorids and zombie tokens :(
g2: i go swamp and pass. he therapies and I entomb in response, sending elesh norn to the bin. he decides to name Reanimate but luckily i had exhume.
g3: i mull again to 5 and he reanimates FKZ T3 and a shitload of zombies kill me

R5: Elves
g1: I reanimate Iona T2 FoWing a T1 shaman by him
g2: i keep a very sketchy 7 but my opponent mulls to 4! he leads with t1 shaman, and I again I'm out of blue source, so i use a petal to cast ponder. eventually i reanimate a t3 griselbrand by putting two monsters in the bin and casting two reanimates to overpower the shaman.

R6: MonoRed Sneak Attack

after 5 rounds i'm 3rd in the standings so my opponent and i can draw to put us both in top 8 :)

Top 8 match: against MonoRed Sneak Attack same person I drawed in R6
g1: because of tiebreakers he is now ranked higher than me and gets to go first. i keep 7 cards with tons of disruption, but without FoW, which i believe was a mistake. he goes T1 Sneak Attack with mana floating, but he didn't have a big guy to kill me. i go u. sea and pass. he draws emrakul, hits, i entomb in response, searching for griselbrand (maybe tidespout tyrant was the better option but i didn't have spells to bounce anything) he swings with emrakul, i drop to 5 and in my turn i drop a swamp + petal and exhume griselbrand. I swing once and I start to believe i can actually win this but ghe topdecks another emrakul which shits on my face
g2: I seize him revealing big guys and a grafdigger cage which i take. from there i hold counters and i wait to discard to hand size Iona, which gets reanimated (naming red of course)
g3: I keep a hand with forces of will and dazes. He goes T1 chalice in 1 which i counter. i play ponder seeing only land, so i shuffle. he goes t2 defense grid which i daze. i brainstorm and find a force of will for his t3 trinisphere. i manage to entomb and reanimate a t4 Griselbrand (I had Iona + Sire of Insanity in hand), but he goes t5 Through the breach. I'm at 10 so i'm able to draw 7 cards and i find a Force of Will! but no blue card to pitch to it :( a WorldSpine Wurm comes Through the Breach and laughs with his trample ability against my Griselbrand which now looks really small haha.

Overall it was a fun tournament and really nice experience. I got a Tasigur and two fetches as prize, only if I could've sneaked into top 4 i would've get a dual :(

final standings were:
1. dredge
2. rug
3. mono red sneak attack
3. affinity with chalices and FoWs
5. reanimator
5. reanimator
7. UR delver
7. Sneak and Show

really a nice day for the "cheat big creatures into play" office :)

the list i played was:

2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Swamp
2 Island
4 Lotus Petal
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Thoughtseize
2 Show and Tell
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
3 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Sire of Insanity
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

SB:

2 Serenity
2 Thoughtseize
2 City of Traitors
2 Show and Tell
1 Ashen Rider
3 Pithing Needle
1 Echoing Truth
1 Swan Song
1 Void Snare

any suggestions and critics (also questions) are welcome

[Stryfo]

Just won a 46 person charity tournament for VHLA and won a a box of modern masters with this monstrosity:


4 Hapless Researcher
3 Griselbrand
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Tidespout Tyrant
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
2 Izzet Charm
1 Misdirection
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island

SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 Keranos, God of Storms
SB: 1 Darkblast


This deck felt extremely powerful all day, the izzet charms countered spells, killed delvers, and looted admirably.
I played against:

Esper Delver (2-1)
UR OmniTell (1-2)
UR Omnitell (2-0)
Bant Stoneblade (2-0)
Infect (2-0)
Punishing Nic Fit (2-1)

Top 8:
Reanimator Mirror (2-0)
UR OmniTell, my loss in swiss (2-0)
RUG Delver (2-0)

I've been changing things around and becoming more controlling in the post board games, adding removal spells to just get to the point where you can go over whatever it is the opponent is doing, and this build felt very powerful. That said, I only played against 3 wasteland decks, which may or may not be the norm in the meta, but even so, I felt confident against every wasteland deck that wasn't also playing stifle, and even against RUG Delver, I felt fine in the matchup.

[Tantarus]

I was at that event. Was fun, my results where not as good:P I actually was thinking about building a reanimator. I had some questions about your build.

Why Hapless Researcher? Did you like using them?

Also why no Lotus petals?

What did you reanimate if you didn't know what you where playing against?

Why no Iona main deck?

How was Keranos for you? Did you use him?

Why no show and tells? Budget issues?

[Stryfo]

Hapless Researcher is a card that has tons of upside for reanimator, but people don't usually play it because at first blush it looks like a bad careful study. The reasons I like it are: It almost never gets countered, partially because it is harder to counter because pierce and flusterstorm don't hit it, and partially because no one ever points their counters at it for some reason. It allows you to invest mana and cards into your combo before you actually want to combo off, which lets you play around grave hate and also have more resources on your combo turn. It attacks and blocks, blocking being especially important in the deck that wants to trade life for cards. It lets you do exhume tricks without spending additional mana. I love Hapless Researcher, it is a beautiful card in this deck.

I don't play lotus petals because they force you to either play more mana sources, i.e. fewer spells, or take more mulligans, because openers with only petals are usually going to be mulligans. Also, the deck doesn't need the explosiveness that petal provides, I'd rather have a build that goes off more consistently on turn two than a build that has the ability to go off turn one.

When I don't know what I'm playing against and I have the choice, I go for Griselbrand, since he can usually enable a second creature fairly easily.

I don't play Iona main because she just makes good matchups better, and is poor against our worse matchups, Inkwell is fantastic against our worse matchups, so it made more sense to me to play Inkwell main.

Keranos din't do much for me this tournament, as they never got to cast containment priest against me. That said, I brought it in a lot, and almost hardcast him once, but my opponent conceded before that. I have also had success with him in previous tournaments.

I don't play Show and Tell because I don't believe it is very good in Reanimator. Playing a card that wants you to keep a creature in your hand in a deck that wants to not draw creatures and/or dump them into the yard makes for a lot of awkward draws. There are also too many decks running around that show and tell is uncastable against. It is difficult to resolve against DnT and Delver, and it is not good to cast against GW/x decks or Show and Tell decks. And since most hate currently is spell based (which we can counter) or cheap permanent based (which we can decay), there isn't much reason to play a card like Show and Tell.

[PirateKing]

Styfo how comfortable were you being borderline Rainbow without any Petals or other 5c producers? Did you ever get stuck or otherwise limited in your plays because you couldn't get BB or something?

[GoldenCid]

But you'd just run 2 s&t and 3 griselda. ItS reasonable

Enviado desde mi XT890 mediante Tapatalk

[mistercakes]

Stryfo : could you explain the current merits for using jin-gitaxias over some of the other choices (most importantly grave titan and iona, or even a 4th griselbrand?) the only one i can think of is an extra blue card for force of will. i'm wondering if you have any other reasons.

[Stryfo]

@ PirateKing, I rarely have mana issues with the deck, they do occur sometimes, but I don't think that they occur more frequently than a regular build. I mean, the deck plays 15 black sources and 14 blue sources effectively, which is what I've been working with for years, this version just gets hit a bit harder by wasteland. I messed up in fetch sequencing a few times, Bayou+Volc doesn't cast izzet charm, but Trop+Badlands does, which I messed up once (In a postboard game where I wanted my colors) but it didn't actually matter once, and that was user error rather than a problem with the deck itself.

@mistercakes: I like Jin for a variety of reasons. I like being able to entomb for a D7 that doesn't cost a ton of life. Even with reanimate, if I need to draw 7, Jin is going to be initially cheaper than Griselbrand, at 10 rather than 15. Playing Jin also allows for a D7 effect to exist in the deck after an extraction effect is used (I like to look at deckbuilding holistically, and this is a mainboard solution I have come up with for extraction effects). As I stated earlier, I'm of the oppinion that Iona is the worst creature in the deck, but she does have uses, which is why she still is in the 75, but I'd rather have Jin main. Grave Titan is simply not necessary in a list running 4 hapless researchers, edict effects are rarely problematic and the clock difference is irrelevant agaist most decks. Putting all of this together, I think having Jin as an entomb bullet is more powerful than having Iona, Grave Titan, or a 4th Grisel in the main.

[redesign1991]

Has anyone else given some thought to including a singleton Dig Through Time? Yesterday I faced a game against the mirror and the guy played 1 main deck. It seems really good with all the fetches, cantrips etc. Definitely if the game lasts a bit longer than it usually does.

[Meester Roboto]

I have on in my main deck. My thought processes is that digging through my deck for two cards in a two card combo deck seems pretty good. In practice it has been hit or miss. Ive usually had to force it away before getting to cast it. I also usually board it out for my abrupt decay and anti hate package games 2 and 3. When it has been good, it has been GREAT however. When it is bad, it is the worst card in the deck. I am keeping it in for now, but it is a card I am currently keeping an eye on right now as I am not convinced.

[Politta]

I use to Digs on main deck. They are really awesome in my experience, dig for a FOW or a missing combo piece is really nice.

Of course they are the main cards that I side out, mainly for decays or needles.

[Cuddlecow]

I feel dig could be a replacement for some reanimation targets. Finishers are only good with careful study in hand, while dig is insane even without it. WIthout careful study in hand, what do you want to have, a griselbrand in hand or a dig?
Now I suspect the risk that comes with less finishers and more digs (the risk is of course not finding a creature with careful study) is not that much of a risk, if you have a dig instead you can at the very least dig T3 every time if you have careful study in hand which is also an accetable way to victory.

The advantage with less finishers is of course is way less dead cards and improved ancestrals instead.
It's of course amazing to have dig after a Draw7 as well since it's a Draw 14 then making it almost impossible to lose.

If I looked correctly, if one casts Careful Study T1, chances to find a creature are:

8 Finishers in Deck:
75% chance to find a creature

5 Finishers in Deck:
57% chance to find a creature


With Brainstorm T2, fetch and Careful Study:

8 FInishers:
88% chance

5 Finishers:
72% chance

I for one am running 4 dig and 4 probe and had very good results so far, prizing in all of my three tournaments I played.

[clashed]

I feel dig could be a replacement for some reanimation targets. Finishers are only good with careful study in hand, while dig is insane even without it. WIthout careful study in hand, what do you want to have, a griselbrand in hand or a dig?
Now I suspect the risk that comes with less finishers and more digs (the risk is of course not finding a creature with careful study) is not that much of a risk, if you have a dig instead you can at the very least dig T3 every time if you have careful study in hand which is also an accetable way to victory.

The advantage with less finishers is of course is way less dead cards and improved ancestrals instead.
It's of course amazing to have dig after a Draw7 as well since it's a Draw 14 then making it almost impossible to lose.

If I looked correctly, if one casts Careful Study T1, chances to find a creature are:

8 Finishers in Deck:
75% chance to find a creature

5 Finishers in Deck:
57% chance to find a creature


With Brainstorm T2, fetch and Careful Study:

8 FInishers:
88% chance

5 Finishers:
72% chance

I for one am running 4 dig and 4 probe and had very good results so far, prizing in all of my three tournaments I played.
I think that having all of the reanimates just makes the digs more powerful. I've recently dumped the lotus petals as per advice from stryfo and I don't think I want to ever go back. Having that 17th land is way more consistent anecdotally. I too love dig through time though.

I'm also sick of getting run over by containment priest in every match regardless of show and tell or reanimate. I think that we need to get creative in terms of answering that card. Maybe just increasing hand disruption could be the way.

Some on color card like silence would be sweet.

[redesign1991]

Having read some of the recent comments I'm considering cutting the petals as well. I'm still a new player when it comes to playing Legacy and this deck, so I'll post my current version here for reference:

Artifact (3)
3x Lotus Petal

Creatures (7)
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Grave Titan
3x Griselbrand
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Tidespout Tyrant

Instant (16)
4x Brainstorm
3x Daze
1x Dig Through Time
4x Entomb
4x Force of Will

Sorcery (19)
4x Careful Study
4x Exhume
3x Ponder
4x Reanimate
4x Thoughtseize

Land (15)
1x Bayou
1x Island
2x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
4x Underground Sea
2x Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard
2x Pithing Needle
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Sire of Insanity
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Disfigure
1x Golgari Charm
1x Tropical Island
2x Duress
1x Massacre

Until recently that 1 DTT main was a Duress but I replaced it with Dig just to give that a try. With the little experience I've gathered so far by playing the deck I can definitely relate to the petal issue. Oftentimes I get a good opener but instead of a land it contains a petal. It kinda sucks to mulligan there and if I'm on the draw I do sometimes take the risk and just hope to draw a land straight away. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. Then sometimes there's the choice about just going for it or playing Thoughtseize. And Thoughtseize is pretty strong. So I was thinking about these changes MD:

- 3x Petals
+ 1x Tropical Island
+ 1x Swamp (fetch?)
+ 1x Duress (or DTT?)

Sideboard
- 1x Tropical Island
+ 1x ??? (4th Decay?)

I usually side out DTT for games 2 and 3.

[Nuke is Good]

In my infinite wisdom I actually left my reanimator deck box at the hotel so I couldn't use it at GP Kyoto. I was luckily able to play with Jund.

The list I have is basically unchanged since going 4 Petal 4 Daze

Main Deck (60)
Creatures (7)
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells (37)
4 Lotus Petal
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Daze
4 Exhume
2 Show and Tell
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
Lands (16)
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
Sideboard (15)
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Show and Tell
1 Grave Titan
1 Sire of Insanity

In defense of the petal. Petal powers out a lot of T1 combos or a Turn 2 Show and Tell into victory. Late game it does suffer a bit, though it did allow me to hardcast an Empyrial Archangel. My normal list actually has 2 Dread of Night sideboard due to death and taxes being such a miserable matchup. I'm still very iffy on using DTT as most of my matches end very fast within 4 turns. My long protracted matches where DTT might actually be useful I'm on the receiving end of a RiP which prevents me from delving and casting Dig. I guess it's all about playing style for other pilots. I like the Show and Tell plan as it ignores grave hate so when I see a RiP I don't sweat as much.


There was one Japanese Reanimator list that puzzles me from a year ago. The sideboard turned the deck into Painter and the guy placed Top 16 with it.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

That's known as a transformational sideboard. It's a concession to graveyard hate. Instead of quasi-next-leveling your opponent by trying to figure out how and what they brought in against you, just change it up with a compact combo that ignores their hate. .dk does this in Tin Fins with Doomsday in games 2/3. Completely ignoring their yard hate and having a completely different strategy. The there are a lot of free wins from utilizing a strategy such as this.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Esper3k]

It's been awhile since I've played this deck so I was wondering - how do you guys usually board for D&T?

I think Dazes and hand disruption come out for Pithing Needles / answers to their RIP / Containment Priest but I'm trying to decide if Lotus Petals should come out or not too? FoW maybe?

[Will_L]

If you don't play Inkwell Leviathan in your main deck it's definitely worth bringing in here.

D&T can't beat it, their only answer is try and race with Batterskull or an equipped creature.

[Deimos]

If you don't play Inkwell Leviathan in your main deck it's definitely worth bringing in here.

D&T can't beat it, their only answer is try and race with Batterskull or an equipped creature.


D&T running 2x council's judgement in the board is pretty standard now, so they definitely have more answer than just racing with batterskull or equipment but I do agree it's one of the better cards reanimator has against them.

[Tantarus]

If you don't play Inkwell Leviathan in your main deck it's definitely worth bringing in here.

D&T can't beat it, their only answer is try and race with Batterskull or an equipped creature.

Is it me, or does Iona naming white beat D&T a bit better?

[jrw1985]

Is it me, or does Iona naming white beat D&T a bit better?

4 Karakas answer Iona. Nothing answers Leviathan. Unless... Wing Shards!

[Tantarus]

4 Karakas answer Iona. Nothing answers Leviathan. Unless... Wing Shards!

Hrm, sure Karakas is an issue I guess. But I don't see many lists running more then 2 to be fair, and Needles stop that. I feel like Will of the Council is common enough that Leviathan is not as safe as it use to be.

[Esper3k]

I'm actually not a fan of Iona vs D&T. As others have looted out, Karakas is a thing. In addition to that, Aether Vial lets them get dudes down past her as well.

My sideboard questioning isn't so much about creatures, but whether or not it is correct to board out hand disruption / Dazes for answers to things like RIP / Containment Priest (obvs Needles have to come in for Karakas).

[PirateKing]

Esper3k, I guess it depends on what you have to bring in. Nowadays people have Massacre and even Contagion and Dread of Night to bring in for D&T alongside Inkwell Leviathan, if not already running main.
For me, I bring in Abrupt Decay, Pithing Needles, whatever bounce I'm running that day (I cycle between Echoing Truth, Chain of Vapor & Wipe Away depending on how I'm feeling) and Massacre. I have a copy of Engineered Explosives that might get brought in depending on how games 1 & 2 went, if their build is weak on land tricks and leans more on AEther Vial and other permanents for a more weenie-aggro build, EE might get a slot. Also in the side is a copy of Disfigure, but it's too hard to cast effectively on a Thalia with Karakas and Mother of Runes patrolling around, that's more for the first turn Deathrite Shaman decks.

So in total I'm bringing in 7-8 cards & a creature.
Out comes Thoughtseize and Daze & a creature. For me that's 7 cards right there.

So I mean, I agree that D&T isn't taxed well and their card pool is so broad 1 for 1 hand disruption is weak against them. But what your sideboard strategy is will matter greatly to what you bring in. A Show and Tell board versus an Abrupt Decay board will value speed versus resiliency a bit differently. Some decks even have both at the same time, so you're looking at 10 or more cards coming in. If that's your flavor, you'd have to find a S&T guy to explain his strategies.

[Nuke is Good]

So I mean, I agree that D&T isn't taxed well and their card pool is so broad 1 for 1 hand disruption is weak against them. But what your sideboard strategy is will matter greatly to what you bring in. A Show and Tell board versus an Abrupt Decay board will value speed versus resiliency a bit differently. Some decks even have both at the same time, so you're looking at 10 or more cards coming in. If that's your flavor, you'd have to find a S&T guy to explain his strategies.

Ok, this is where I come in, the Death and Taxes matchup is still rather miserable for me but it's been getting better.

Game 1 I have Empyrial Archangel and Tidespout Tyrant mainboard to fight them.
Game 2 my board changes a bit:

-2 Griselbrand only keeping 1
-4 Daze
-1 Misdirection
-1 Careful Study
-1 Exhume
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Show and Tell
+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Dread of Night
+1 Sire of Insanity
+1 Show and Tell

It's not full on the Show and Tell plan due to Tupperware priest. The goal is usually to aim for a T1 sire of insanity and hope he didn't drop a white source of mana to break his back. Later in the game Show and Tell serves as an out if you ran out of abrupt decays trying to deal with hate. Rest in Peace is low on the abrupt decay priority list unless you have a entomb/careful study+reanimate. Exhume is a bit slower so I cut one. Containment Priest is higher on the list of things to react to since it attacks both angles of attack. I don't use Thoughtseizes mainboard due to how my meta looks. I don't use many bounce spells due to the taxing nature of our opponents, i'd probably only have enough mana to bounce only for them in the next turn to recast whatever I just bounced.

If the game goes on too long you just end up like me and hard casting Elesh Norn with Petals killing your opponent.

[Esper3k]

Yeah, I think I may be over boarding for the matchup.

I brought in 2x Massacre, 2x Abrupt Decay, 2x Golgari Charm, 2x Pithing Needle, 1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind, 1x Inkwell and took out 3x Daze, 2x Thoughtseize, 3x Lotus Petal, 1x Iona, 1x Griselbrand (I run 1 Grave Titan in the main).

Massacre was alright but I actually wasn't a huge fan of it. My problem is that it just stalls the game and doesn't actually deal with any hate permanent other than Containment Priest, which shouldn't be caught by Massacre unless they've already flashed it in and wrecked you with it (ie, Massacreing one would be too late). I also think I should've just left Lotus Petals in.

My future plans would probably be something like:

-3 Daze
-2 Thoughtseize
-1 DTT
-1 Iona
-1 Griselbrand

+3 Pithing Needle
+3 Abrupt Decay
+1 Inkwell
+1 Sphinx

[PirateKing]

My Massacre wasn't for Containment Priest, but for Thalia, and to delay their game. I only have the 1 so it never feels overboarding, and the D&T players here lean on the Death heavily and don't really focus on the Tax. Beyond Thalia and some Wasteland, they're SFM into Sword onto Serra Avenger into beatz. They'll have the RiP and Priest and stuff brought in for me, but it's handled well enough if I get time to assemble the right cards. So turning back the clock 2~3 turns is paramount.
If you got a good player locking you down with Ports and using cruel Flickerwisp tricks, then greedy routes like Echoing Truth are not for you.

Golgari Charm seems like a worse Abrupt Decay, I mean it'll hit multiple creatures or the RiP, but too many of their dudes are x/2. I can see why it'd be wroth the look, but just seems like not enough to be worth the slot, especially in a crowded sideboard like ours. But maybe I'm selling short or not seeing the use. What are your experiences?

[Esper3k]

My Massacre wasn't for Containment Priest, but for Thalia, and to delay their game. I only have the 1 so it never feels overboarding, and the D&T players here lean on the Death heavily and don't really focus on the Tax. Beyond Thalia and some Wasteland, they're SFM into Sword onto Serra Avenger into beatz. They'll have the RiP and Priest and stuff brought in for me, but it's handled well enough if I get time to assemble the right cards. So turning back the clock 2~3 turns is paramount.
If you got a good player locking you down with Ports and using cruel Flickerwisp tricks, then greedy routes like Echoing Truth are not for you.

Golgari Charm seems like a worse Abrupt Decay, I mean it'll hit multiple creatures or the RiP, but too many of their dudes are x/2. I can see why it'd be wroth the look, but just seems like not enough to be worth the slot, especially in a crowded sideboard like ours. But maybe I'm selling short or not seeing the use. What are your experiences?

I've liked Golgari Charm myself. As you said, it doubles as X/1 ie, Thalia hate or RIP hate. The nice thing about Charm is that it deals with Thalia + Mom, which Abrupt Decay doesn't.

I actually think though that probably the correct way to go about this is to go back to 3 Pithing Needles since Karakas is really our main problem. Thalia's not that bad as long as we can get a guy out and of their 2 drops, the only things we care about are RIP and Priest, both of which are Daze/Fow able if we're going off early.

[redesign1991]

So I just finished a game against LED Dredge where I boarded in 2x Tormod's Crypt (something my opponent couldn't really deal with apparently [both personal and in game]). Anyway he seemed to be really surprised that I was running them in my sideboard. Now, I'm still new the deck (and format) and it just made me win a game, but that made me wonder: do we need graveyard hate or are we better off running something else? And which do you guys prefer?

Here's the current list for reference:

Artifact (2)
2x Lotus Petal

Creature (7)
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Grave Titan
3x Griselbrand
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Tidespout Tyrant

Instant (16)
4x Brainstorm
3x Daze
1x Dig Through Time
4x Entomb
4x Force of Will

Sorcery (19)
4x Careful Study
4x Exhume
3x Ponder
4x Reanimate
4x Thoughtseize

Land (16)
1x Bayou
1x Island
2x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
1x Tropical Island
4x Underground Sea
2x Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard

3x Pithing Needle
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Sire of Insanity
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Disfigure
1x Golgari Charm
2x Duress
1x Massacre

[PirateKing]

I run an Extirpate in my side for the mirror or other graveyard decks. I used to run Coffin Purge when Reanimator was the deck of the week, occasionally making use of Faerie Macabre when I thought it was going to be a graveyard intense tournament, since a split of the two is better than doubling up on Coffin Purge alone. Now though those decks are a rarity and I've moved to a heavy black style with four Thoughtseize main, so I can typically afford the hard :b: when I bring it in. Not worrying about responses is worth it for me.

Tormod's Crypt is a fine sideboard card to have, number of copies depends on your meta.

[Tantarus]

So I am going to play reanimator for the first time tonight. I am not on how to deal this choice.

I am on the play. I have entomb, fetch, any reanimation spell. Do I:

1) Play fetch, pass. On their EoT fetch up land and entomb to avoid wastelands and letting them know what deck I am on. Or

2) Crack fetch on my turn, entomb on my turn to play around daze/spell pierces?

[Esper3k]

Depends on your hand.

Do you also have Daze? The reanimation spell you have matters too. For example, if you're trying to play around Daze, if your Reanimation spell is Exhume or Animate Dead, you need a 3rd mana source to play around Daze so there's no real point in Entombing on your turn to play around Daze.

[Stryfo]

If you are playing against an unknown opponent, you entomb right away to play around daze/pierce (getting GB), the only time you don't do this is if you know the opponent has DRS AND free counters.

If they are a DRS deck without counters, you can reanimate on turn two and not care. If they are a counterspell deck, you resolve entomb because that is the most important spell in the deck. This is assuming you have exactly one entomb and one reanimation effect, if you have multiple entombs, you pop one during their turn to bait the counter. This is all stuff you should pick up while just playing the deck.

[mariobross]

Hi,

I wanted to ask a question to the experts reanimator players, Why the lists playing S&T do not play Abrupt Decay in side?

You do not believe that the two cards can coexist?

especially now that the containment priest is played more, it might be a good thing to have more ways to play our creatures (both reanimate and S&T), and with decay can be removed the problem of the problematic permanents for the cemetery (cage, RIP etc ..), and the problematic creatures more played as containment priests, meddling mage etc...

What do you think about this coexistence?