[Deck]BUx Reanimator

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Also, I suppose you are playing Jin-Gitaxias, Core Auger, so you do have the ability to limit their hand, just not quite as fast, although speed is less of a concern in a petal-less build. I love your list, and will be playing it soon. I've got it put together with the sub-optimal mana-base, but -1 MisD and -1 Jace, +1 Izzet Charm and...I don't remember. Might be a Grave Titan.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[iostream]

Also, I suppose you are playing Jin-Gitaxias, Core Auger, so you do have the ability to limit their hand, just not quite as fast, although speed is less of a concern in a petal-less build. I love your list, and will be playing it soon. I've got it put together with the sub-optimal mana-base, but -1 MisD and -1 Jace, +1 Izzet Charm and...I don't remember. Might be a Grave Titan.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!The point of Jin-Gitaxias is to play around Surgical, I think.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I understand that, but it's other effect is relevant.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Fox]

I love your list, and will be playing it soon. I've got it put together with the sub-optimal mana-base, but -1 MisD and -1 Jace, +1 Izzet Charm and...I don't remember. Might be a Grave Titan.
I would highly recommend proxying Origins Jace, you haven't lived until you've gotten to use entomb to tutor up a reanimation spell. Another very relevant aspect of this card is -2/-0 Baleful Strix (even just gaining 2 effective life will keep reanimate online longer). No reanimator list has to have it, but it's definitely good to understand what you're missing out on; moreso if your meta is using one-time hate cards like Nihil Spellbomb or Relic.

[Nuke is Good]

I would highly recommend proxying Origins Jace, you haven't lived until you've gotten to use entomb to tutor up a reanimation spell. Another very relevant aspect of this card is -2/-0 Baleful Strix (even just gaining 2 effective life will keep reanimate online longer). No reanimator list has to have it, but it's definitely good to understand what you're missing out on; moreso if your meta is using one-time hate cards like Nihil Spellbomb or Relic.

Its almost two months since I've play tested with Jace. I cannot get him to resolve. He either eats removal, permission, or I just plain don't draw him. That alone makes me keep trying to test him.

He's like the Chains of Mephistopheles in my Jund deck. A supposedly powerful card that I cannot get to stick.

[JayJay2101]

Last weekend I played a SCG Premier in Philly. Went 3-2-1 Lol
It was my first time piloting reanimator. I loved it!

My list is as follows:

2 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Grave Titan
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Reanimate
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Careful Study
3 Lotus Petal
3 Thoughtseize

15 Lands
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island

Griselbrand is the all star creature of the deck, but i realized that playing 2 is the same as playing 3, The consistency was still there.
Iona is a Power House, if you can entomb her and reanimate her fast, is almost game, and it's way to hard to deal with her.
Grave titan, 2 turn clock, really good against bug decks
Inkwell Leviathan, after heavy playtesting, i realized that DnT was my hardest match up, Reanimating a turn 2 Leviathan is always game most of the time (unless they race you whith a batterskull) I think it's a must!
Tidespout tyrant: against show and tell and lands.
Elesh Norn: elves. Once you reanimate this, its game

What really screwed my game plan was a turn 1 Drs on their side, it was really hard to play around it, you can only go if your opponent doesn't know what he is up against.

I think Chance tech of adding izzet charm is really good! gives you a lot more of versatility and ways to get rid of those really annoying drs.
Never though about splashing red for the charm, i was leaning towards maindecking pithing needle, just for drs! but charms work a lot better!
I would swap 1 ponder, 1 daze and a thoughtseize for 3 charms. That's what i'm going to test.

I really like Show and tell in the sideboard and i'm considering maindecking 2 copies of it, it's a really good way of dodging drs, again, one of the decks worst nightmares and against heavy counter decks as show and tell.

The ability to turn 1 reanimate and consistent turn 2 is really good with petals. I did a turn 1 grave titan by thoughseizing myself, playing petal and reanimating afterwards. It felt great!!

I need to keep playtesting the deck, i really enjoy playing it!!

Congrats chase! I think your deck is reanimators next evolution.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I would highly recommend proxying Origins Jace, you haven't lived until you've gotten to use entomb to tutor up a reanimation spell. Another very relevant aspect of this card is -2/-0 Baleful Strix (even just gaining 2 effective life will keep reanimate online longer). No reanimator list has to have it, but it's definitely good to understand what you're missing out on; moreso if your meta is using one-time hate cards like Nihil Spellbomb or Relic.
I've been saying Jace is good for pages now, and I played 2x main at GP SeaTac. I'm playing with 2x in my board currently with the main being about 4 cards different from Chase's GP list.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[heat_wave]

Got a report from a local legacy tourney, maybe you'll find it amusing.

To begin with, I hadn't thought I would even participate today. Literally half of my deck (the more important half, the reanimation package) was still being processed by our post yesterday, so I gave up right when my postal app told me I could pick up the parcels the next day. Well, I'm in!
I sleeved my new cards up just before the tournament and I managed to buy a few cool singles to reanimate. I was curious if my online experience with the deck would help me at all in a real tourney, and so it began.

Round 1. M. with Jund

Well, I knew what he would be playing as I had lent him a few duals and fetches. I expected to win G1 easily and battle G2 and possible G3 through hate. Foolish me.
M. wins the die roll and I keep my seven with a few lands and a possibility of turn 2 (or even turn 1) reanimation. T1 Thoughtseize shreds my hand and makes me dig for the right spells, but I don't find them in time and die to some beats. G2 I lead with a Thoughtseize taking DRS, seeing 2 Dark Confidants, Duress, Pulse and two fetches. At some point he casts a Hymn, I respond with an Entomb, putting some fatty in the graveyard, discard an Iona in hand to Hymn, draw an Exhume and he concedes as his Confidants put him to low enough life to die to a single 7/7 flying attack. G3 I kept an okayish hand, but didnt sequence my spells properly, and my opponent got his creatures out early, pressuring me to act quickly. So I had just enough mana to Entomb and Exhume, I took the risk, but my Griselbrand got extracted, my life total was too low to cast Reanimate, and it all never mattered because my late discard showed me first a hand of 2 Lilis and a Wasteland, then 3 Lilis when I discarded his Bolt, but he drew another one and killed me brutally.
0-1 (1-2 in games)

Round 2. V. with Affinity

I win the die roll. When he plays an Ancient Tomb G1, I put him on MUD, then he plays a Pithing Needle naming Griselbrand as I accidentally dropped a Lotus Petal from my hand; then a Relic of Progenitus which gets promptly Dazed. I keep digging, Reanimate a Griselbrand, but he eats Ornithopter with Arcbound Ravager, denying me the lifegain; then he gets a few counters on Etched Champion, a few on another Ravager, I'm at 4 life with tapped Grisel, so I reanimate his Ornithopter to block the Champion, but one of the attackers kills me anyway. G2 he gets a Tormod's Crypt into play, then a couple weenies, but no Ravager. I sculpted my hand perfectly with an earlier Ponder, play a Needle on Relic, Entomb an Elesh Norn, cast Reanimate and that's it. G3 he got the weenies swinging early at me, I had some cantrips and a Reanimate, but no way to put a creature in the yard. I got a Needle on Crypt again, then an Abrupt Decay dealt with Cranial Plating on his Vault Skirge. I cast a Ponder, seeing another Decay, an Entomb and probably a land. Think a little, but decide to draw a Decay, having a Swamp and a fetchland untapped, and use it in case something goes wrong; otherwise, I would draw an Entomb for the turn and combo off. I am forced to kill a Ravager, the counters moving to the Skirge (he also had an Ornithopter ready), so I shuffle away my Entomb, the Skirge puts me to 4 life, I don't draw anything relevant and lose. After the game it turned out he had a Flusterstorm sitting in hand for a long time, so if I tried to combo off a turn earlier, I would die even quicker.
0-2 (2-4 in games)

Round 3. G. with Burn.

At that point, I am a bit nervous as I can't lose any more games. My opponent isn't that experienced, but that doesn't mean she can't burn me out. I win the die roll, play a land, pass. She starts with a Goblin Guide, I let it resolve hoping to find some lands off its trigger, but that doesn't happen that time, nor does it any other turn. I bin a Grisel, Force another Guide, then I have to Entomb twice on my upkeep due to revealing useless fatties on top of my deck, but my draws are blank and I never see a reanimation spell this game, in addition to staying low on lands. Damn, I'm on the brink now. G2 is not really spectacular, she Lava Spikes me, I entomb Iona on endstep, untap, Reanimate, it's over. G3 I am happy to be on the draw, keeping a hand with a lot of lands, Lotus Petal, Griselbrand, Exhume. Discard 'Brand to hand size, next turn Exhume, never play another spell or land, seeing an Eidolon and a Swiftspear across the board. One attack step later I am out of burn range, and her hand is full of irrelevant creatures.
1-2 (4-5 in games)

Round 4. V. with BG Depths/Lands

Okay, there aren't actually a lot of people here, and my standings are the best among the other 3-point players, so if I win this match, I'm in top 8. That match was recorded on Twitch, so I might add anything I missed later. I lead with a land, pass and Entomb on endstep, binning Grisel. That was a mistake, one that it took me a couple turns to fix. He plays a Maze of Ith and my plan to beat him with a lifelinking demon is ruined. I draw 7, keep digging until I manage to dump a Tidespout Tyrant in the yard, probably Exhume it, then keep playing discard and cantrips to bounce his Maze once and swing for 7, leaving him at 12 life, then next turn to swing for exactly lethal. At that point I've been playing long enough to feel tired, it's hot inside the game store, but cold outside, and I need to wash my face with cold water between rounds to try to concentrate. Going to G2, I have another good hand for an early reanimation, but my opponent starts the game with two Leylines of the Void in play. I feel awkward as I only have one Echoing Truth in sideboard, one Golgari Charm and this leaves me with little chance to win that game. I don't concede because my opponent has only a Mox for mana, his other lands are Tabernacle and Maze. I play a Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and pass. Then I keep paying for that boy each upkeep, drawing and discarding blanks, digging for answers. The turn he finds a Thespian's stage to add to his Dark Depths, he's 1 mana short of copying the Depths, so I rip a Pithing Needle off the top of my deck, play it, and that prolongs the game. He Living Wishes for Reclamation Sage, kills my Needle, but forgets to pay for the Sage and it gets destroyed by Tabernacle. I Reanimate the Sage, killing one Leyline, but that's not enough and I die next turn to a Marit Lage. I could have won this, however, if I hadn't looted that thoughtlessly. I could've 'Seized the Sage, Reanimated it, then 'forgot' to pay for the trigger, Reanimated again and won from there. Game 3 is a lot like G1, but this time I made reanimating the Tyrant my top priority. After that, neither Maze of Ith nor his almost assembled combo of Stage+Depths can stop the unfair blue creature, and he dies in four attacks. Yay, top 8!

2-2 (6-6 in games)

Top 8. M. with Jund.

G1 I mull to 5 cards and he goes down to 4. I discard a Confidant, leaving him with two lands and a Tarmogoyf - not a bad four he kept! I proceed to discard a Griselbrand and Exhume, force a Liliana, draw cards, attack, probably Reanimate Elesh Norn and win. G2 we both drew our sideboard cards. He played a Shaman, I Needled it. He played a Grafdigger's Cage, I Decayed it on his endstep. However, all that time his Tarmogoyf was hitting me hard, then I ate a Bolt and had too few life points to cast a Reanimate. G3 we trade cards for some time, then he misplays really hard. I have a Swamp and a fetch untapped, he has 3 mana and casts a LotV. I let it resolve, he ticks her up, letting me bin a Griselbrand. Good. He probably thought he'd be able to kill my fatty with Lili's -2, but he never got to do it. 3 sweet demonic attacks later I'm in top 4, having my revenge for that round 1.
3-2 (8-7 in games)

Top 4. M. with Aggro Loam.

I knew the match wouldn't be easy, but I didn't care as I was a lot more successful than I could expect. I remember seeing Karakas, Knight of the Reliquary and Wasteland with TSeize G1, and I Exhumed a Griselbrand to kill him in 4 swings (he drew and cast DRS to heal a couple times), but I really don't recall how I dealt with Karakas. Maybe my memory isn't that clear, sorry for that. Game 2 lasted literally forever. I got a Grave Titan into play early, he had his KotR growing steadily, his hand had a Punishing Fire in it, so he repeatedly shot down my zombies and untapped the Titan with Maze. I put him to 7 life with those attacks, then he fetched, went to 6, played a Leyline and let me swing. Then I made a double misplay that cost me that game and I'm still ashamed. I attacked with Titan and a few zombies, he untapped a token with Maze, offering to trade Knight for Titan. After blocks and Maze activation I cast the Golgari Charm I had been sandbagging for the last two turns, killing the Leyline. I thought I would Exhume the Titan and proceed to kill him. I could have just damn regenerated my team and killed him next turn. Oh well. The second part of that misplay was that I never dared to cast Exhume when I understood that would give him the Reliquary I just dealt with. Then he cast a Chalice of the Void @ 1, and a sequence of good draws from him and blanks for me sealed the game. What could be worse? At that point I am a little sad, but not really tilted as I had fun in pretty much every game I played that day. We proceed to G3, where he mulls to 6 and I keep my 7 that can Reanimate whatever I want as soon as turn 2, but with no protection or plan B. I play a fetch, pass, let his Shaman resolve, endstep Entomb, my turn Reanimate, which disappoints him. Well, sorry, but you should have been dead one game earlier! Then I try to deprive him of all the possible outs to my Griselbrand, Decay a KotR, draw some cards, don't quite manage to seal the game with my plays, but he doesn't draw the best part of his deck and 2 attacks later he scoops.
4-2 (10-8 in games)

My opponent in the finals would be an experienced player with Grixis Delver, but we decided that it was too late, and we split the prizes, each of us getting 15 packs, a random promo and a few bucks of store credit.
After the tournament, I can say that Jace didn't shine as much as he does online, but that's because he often gets removed or bounced with Karakas. Golgari Charm and Echoing Truth are okay, but I just wish I had my 2 Teferi's Realm already delivered from Ebay. Empyrial Archangel never got Reanimated, so nothing to say about her; Sire of Insanity never got outside of the board as I faced exactly zero combo decks (though they were like half the meta), Needles and Decays are great, but that's obvious. I will continue playing this deck cause it brings me a lot of joy to both assemble my combo quickly and fight through different hate. I admit, though, that some of my wins in the second half of the tourney happened due to me being lucky/my opponent being not so lucky, but I'm mostly fine with it, because I will try not to make the same mistakes as described in this report.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

What is your list?

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[heat_wave]

What is your list?

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

Mainboard

3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Grave Titan

4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Careful Study
3 Thoughtseize

3 Lotus Petal
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Island

Sideboard

3 Abrupt Decay
1 Massacre
2 Duress
1 Golgari Charm
1 Echoing Truth
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Surgical Extraction

[owerbart]

What do you guys think of the new Kozilek guy?

Kozilek, The Great Distortion

mana cost: 8 and double diamond (not sure what this, if the diamonds mean you need complete colorless mana, or that you need to pay it with the new Wastes basic land, not really an issue to us)

When you cast Kozilek, if the number of cards in your hand is less than seven, draw cards equal to the difference

Menace

Discard a card from your hand with converted mana cost X: Counter target spell with converted mana cost X

He's 12/12 too.

[Nuke is Good]

What do you guys think of the new Kozilek guy?

Kozilek, The Great Distortion

mana cost: 8 and double diamond (not sure what this, if the diamonds mean you need complete colorless mana, or that you need to pay it with the new Wastes basic land, not really an issue to us)

When you cast Kozilek, if the number of cards in your hand is less than seven, draw cards equal to the difference

Menace

Discard a card from your hand with converted mana cost X: Counter target spell with converted mana cost X

He's 12/12 too.

The big body, menace ability, and the repeatable counterspell effect are nice. Reanimator does have enough spells in the 1-2 CMC range (3 CMC if you run Show and Tell) to counter most removals short of Karakas. Pitch a hapless researcher to counter a STP only to reanimate it and do something else.

Seems okay. Though Karakas is on an uptick where I play so he probably wont see play on my end.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I doubt I'm interested. He doesn't draw us anything as we don't cast him, he feels win-more.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[iostream]

I very rarely side out my forces, Jake and I have differing opinions regarding how to play against blue decks. Even if his strategy was correct during the DTT era (I can't say for sure whether or not it was), I would consider re-evaluating that strategy now that there are fewer REBs floating around.From when I played Delver, I was always taught to always side out the Forces versus any fair deck. I suppose things are different in combo-land. But in particular: do you side out your Forces versus D+T? You have a ton of cards to bring in (3 Decay, Darkblast, Golgari Charm, 2 Pithing Needle), and it doesn't look like there are 7 bad cards to take out from your list!

[Nuke is Good]

From when I played Delver, I was always taught to always side out the Forces versus any fair deck. I suppose things are different in combo-land. But in particular: do you side out your Forces versus D+T? You have a ton of cards to bring in (3 Decay, Darkblast, Golgari Charm, 2 Pithing Needle), and it doesn't look like there are 7 bad cards to take out from your list!

When I played Miracles, I was taught the same thing. However, against certain decks where you know you had threats that were hard to interact with (Pre Mentor Miracles had difficulty fighting a resolved Liliana) I'd trim them. In the realm of Reanimator vs DnT I don't side my Forces out to keep my Misdirections viable. I do start siding out a Griselbrand or two though.

[Stryfo]

Against dnt I like to cut:

1 reanimate
1 exhume
1 careful study
1 Iona
2 misdirection
1 izzet charm
1 jace


In:
1 golgari charm
1 darkblast
3 decay
1 Jin-gitaxias
1 pithing needle
1 echoing truth

This keeps a relevant number of blue cards for your forces, as well as a high number of answers to their various threats. I only bring in 1 needle in this build because the archetype acts as a second needle in many scenarios. It's possible that the echoing truth or Jin could just be the second needle.

[sunlith42]

Has anyone ever tired xantid swarm in the sideboard? I've been running ANT recently and he is really good vs heavy counter decks like miracles and RUG where they usually side out removal in favor of more counters, which they usually do against re-animator as well.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I asked the same question. I never got an answer, but after thinking about it I see no reason to play it. My sideboard is full and I run counters main, discard in the board. I think that is better overall.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[dte]

Against dnt I like to cut:

1 reanimate
1 exhume
1 careful study
1 Iona
2 misdirection
1 izzet charm
1 jace


In:
1 golgari charm
1 darkblast
3 decay
1 Jin-gitaxias
1 pithing needle
1 echoing truth

This keeps a relevant number of blue cards for your forces, as well as a high number of answers to their various threats. I only bring in 1 needle in this build because the archetype acts as a second needle in many scenarios. It's possible that the echoing truth or Jin could just be the second needle.

I do not get why Jin is better than Iona in the MU? Both fold to karakas, but Jin fold as well on StP. And isn't izzet charm better than E truth?

[Stryfo]

Izzet charm is "better" but harder to cast and doesn't hit RiP or cage, Jin wins the game if you get to your endstep, Iona requires at least 3 turns after resolution to win and does very little if they have an active vial.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Just played at a small tournament with the following list:

4 Hapless Researcher
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobyte
1 Grave Titan

4 Brainstorm
4 FoW
1 MisD
3 Izzet Charm
4 Careful Study

4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead

4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Badlands
1 Island
1 Swamp

SB:
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Auger
2 Pithing Needle
2 Massacre
2 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
2 Echoing Truth
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Coffin Purge

I went 2-2-1. I beat Mono-red burn/sligh and BUG Reanimator, lost to Jund (had Scooze main in place of Goyfs, that's a bunch of hate) and Merfolk. It's a tough matchup if you don't get under it imo, but I also misplayed. I drew against Miracles, but game 3 only had 12 turns total. I would have had it in 4 more turns with Iona on white.

Jace was good when I drew it, but I did side it out several times. I am going to continue to play 2, and play them main.

I got to Misdirection an otherwise game-winning Fireblast and followed it up with an Iona on red.

In the mirror, my opponent tried to reanimate my Iona, so I entombed my Coffin Purge and ate the Iona in response.

Against miracles I got to Entomb an Exhume and -3 my Jace to win game 2. That was fun.

I normally see 0 Miracles and 0 DnT at my LGS, so I left the Archetype at home. Then after Rd 1 I found out about the Miracles list I played against, and another guy was on DnT. I'm dropping Inkwell and the 4th Researcher to add back the Archetype and put the deck back to 60. I was displeased with Inkwell all day.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[owerbart]

@secretly.a.bee what problems do you encounter against merfolks? It's usually a very easy matchup. (or at least i feel it that way :) )

[Fox]

Played in our weekly 4 round tournament tonight, ended up going 3-0-1 in a pretty reanimator-friendly field. Lucked out vs 4c delver (don't consider this a good matchup), then got 2 show and tell variants leading to some very suspect keeps [last match was intentional draw].
Anyways, point is, I'm here to talk about a hilarious game vs sneak and show; I'm on the play with Sea/Fetch/Grisel/Bstorm/FoW/Reanimate x2. My opponent has had to mull down to 5 and has volc/petalx2/show&tell/emrakul + unknown card from the draw. I've decided for some reason that the best line of play is immediately pass the turn (we're going manual tonight, don't worry I've seen manaless dredge players do it!). Already we both know it's going to be one of those games, so he jams turn 1 show and tell. After thinking a while I decide to roll the dice and let it resolve, so in come my grisel and his emrakul. Turns out he wasn't bluffing...oops.
My turn comes around and it's time to draw 14. I'm not thinking about my outs as I'm drawing but totally luck out drawing a black lotus [petalx3]. Only after putting them on the field and adding a land do I finally remember I have a tidespout still in my deck, and entombs + reanimation effects aplenty. Emrakul eventually is bounced and that's the game; but there was a good 10 seconds before I figure out what I need to do, where I'm thinking Big Game Hunter seems pretty ideal...and totally not in my 75. :laugh:

On a more serious note, how do you all approach this matchup? Is it correct to keep loose hands if you have Grisel; and should we be avoiding entomb on Grisel post-board (due to surgical effects)?

[DoorDie]

On a more serious note, how do you all approach this matchup? Is it correct to keep loose hands if you have Grisel; and should we be avoiding entomb on Grisel post-board (due to surgical effects)?

I actually find our S&S matchup very favorable. It's really unfair for them because our combo is leaner and more redundant. Show and Tell is also a major liability. Their analysis (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show) puts us in favor at 60:40, and I might even say 65:35.

My mulligan habits don't really change for them (go to 5 looking for the full combo or 2 pieces + cantrip). I run Thoughtseize to fight Surgical and Faerie Macabre.

[Karhumies]

On a more serious note, how do you all approach this matchup?
Pithing Needle Sneak Attack, Iona on red, cantrip for Tidespout Tyrant (secondary choice Griselbrand) to put into play off their SnT, tax counter their SnT if the Tyrant/Grisel is not ready, hard counter Sneak Attack, cast Exhume while holding an Entomb with B open. Hasty Emrakul is their primary win con.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

@secretly.a.bee what problems do you encounter against merfolks? It's usually a very easy matchup. (or at least i feel it that way :) )
I don't see how. Cursecatcher, FoW, Wasteland, chalice, echoing truth, and a fast clock. If you don't get the turn 2 protected reanimation, I feel like unless they kept a shitty hand, I have a low chance of winning after turn 3.

Furthermore, I keep hearing Iona, but it feels like I want Elesh and Griz.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[owerbart]

I don't see how. Cursecatcher, FoW, Wasteland, chalice, echoing truth, and a fast clock. If you don't get the turn 2 protected reanimation, I feel like unless they kept a shitty hand, I have a low chance of winning after turn 3.

Furthermore, I keep hearing Iona, but it feels like I want Elesh and Griz.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

I won much much more than i lost against merfolk (i can't remember losing to them, to be honest) just by seizing what they had and the doing my thing turn two. Cursecatcher is super easy to beat and if you feel fancy you can even bait it out. The fact that you run cantrips means you can sculpt your hand while they just draw a card a turn. Iona just nukes them mostly because you are fast enough to put her into play t2, so no merfolks will be on the battlefield, and they can't echoing truth it away. Elesh is good but because all the pumpers and the possible echoing truth, Iona is better

[Stryfo]

Game 1 you are advantaged because you are on reanimator, you are much faster than them if you can evaluate the cards in the matchup and how fast you have to go. Postboard you pick up 3 decays and possibly some echoing truths, which puts you on 6-8 removal spells which means that fish won't be clocking you too much, giving you plenty of time to win the game.

[DoorDie]

@Stryfo

I've been away for awhile and haven't caught up on the thread. Anyone pegged you yet for starting a new primer? We could really use an expert breakdown on the archetype. :wink:

[Stryfo]

Not yet. I'd do it if approached, but I likely wouldn't be able to finish it for a while, as grad school takes up a lot of my time. That said, if someone else wanted to do it, I'd be happy to be a consultant or contributor.

Pun received.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

So I guess none of you have had the issue of their Phantasmal Image copying your non-archetype reanimation target? I agree Iona is best, but vial is a concern (needle/removal, I know) with them copying her or another target. I'll keep testing the matchup. It's a dominant strategy (3 builds) at my LGS, so I need to figure it out. Sometimes you don't get to choose your fatty, just draw into it or loot into a random one. This can give them the edge.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Stryfo]

I mean, phantasmal image is annoying, but certainly beatable with 3 charms main, as izzet charm will kill it regardless of whether they have a counter. I don't go for Iona first, especially if they have vial. I go for GB first then follow it up with a norn most of the time. Fish isn't a breeze, but it is favorable.

Also, if you replace one of your massacres with an EE or a deed, you can fry the fishes a lot easier.

[DoorDie]

Not yet. I'd do it if approached, but I likely wouldn't be able to finish it for a while, as grad school takes up a lot of my time. That said, if someone else wanted to do it, I'd be happy to be a consultant or contributor.

Pun received.

Ok. We could certainly do a multiple-writer single-editor setup , I'm just looking for an official spearhead (/editor) as I've got precisely 0 accomplishments to my name (I won a Lili at a local LGS... :tongue:).

Feline's is a fine primer in general, and there's a lot of data there we should preserve. But I think it could use an intimate look from someone who routinely plays the deck and has a firm grasp on every facet and flavor of the archetype. Plus, she's done maintaining it, and it is nice to have a lot of those repetitive questions answered up-front.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Thanks for the tips. I really appreciate it. I also should mention that this is where animate dead shines, as it isn't targetable by Cursecatcher. I'm now finally okay with playing it. I've hated it until I played against merfolk. Now it's good lol.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[alaska]

Been feeling saucy lately, and I'm sleeving up a list with 3 Abrupt Decay main in place of 3 Daze. I'll take it to my weekly this week.

Might be terrible, but I've been curious about it and haven't been loving Daze lately. Also frees up a few slots in the board for other stuff.


Will report back.

[PirateKing]

Ok. We could certainly do a multiple-writer single-editor setup , I'm just looking for an official spearhead (/editor) as I've got precisely 0 accomplishments to my name (I won a Lili at a local LGS... :tongue:).

Feline's is a fine primer in general, and there's a lot of data there we should preserve. But I think it could use an intimate look from someone who routinely plays the deck and has a firm grasp on every facet and flavor of the archetype. Plus, she's done maintaining it, and it is nice to have a lot of those repetitive questions answered up-front.

I posted an updated primer a few pages back to reflect some of the color splashes and the inclusion of Hapless Researcher. If someone wants to add to it or otherwise modify it, just let me know, I'm open to critique.

[lukazlml]

Hey guys,

I'm from Brazil and this weekend we had a 2-day National Legacy Champ with 134 players. I've finished on 12th (7-2 on Day1 and 2-2 day2) playing Reanimator. I've been playing with the traditional UB Reanimator (with green splash on SB) for the past months but was very impressed with the results from Chase playing a 4-color build and decided to mix it on a home made build (sounds bad lol). I was expecting a metagame mixed with Unfair and deathrite shaman based decks and both Izzet Charm and Lotus Petal worked great on my matchs against them.

I will post the decklist here and later I will try to post the matchups for the 13 rounds (just need to gather data from my head and notes).

Reanimator:

3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Grave Titan
1 Tidespout Tyrant

4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
4 Entomb
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Thoughtseize
2 Izzet Charm
1 Ponder
3 Lotus Petal

4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard:

1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Disfigure
2 Massacre
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Show and Tell
1 Chain of Vapor

[Stryfo]

Alaska, let me know how the decays go, I tried them once quite a while ago, but haven't tried that recently. They were good in the meta I played them in but eventually I switched them to main board needles. And since then I switched again to izzet charms, but it might be interesting to try needles and decays in the main in some numbers again.

[Asthereal]

Thanks for the tips. I really appreciate it. I also should mention that this is where animate dead shines, as it isn't targetable by Cursecatcher. I'm now finally okay with playing it. I've hated it until I played against merfolk. Now it's good lol.
You haven't used Animate Dead with Tidespout Tyrant yet?
That stuff is hilarious, man! :laugh:

[alaska]

Alaska, let me know how the decays go, I tried them once quite a while ago, but haven't tried that recently. They were good in the meta I played them in but eventually I switched them to main board needles. And since then I switched again to izzet charms, but it might be interesting to try needles and decays in the main in some numbers again.

I definitely will let you know. It'll be the Card Kingdom Ballard meta, which for me has meant you could face anything.

BTW, now that I know your Source name: good briefly running into you at the GP and congrats on the result. I'm Luke, pretty sure we've played at CK before because you looked familiar and you remembered I'm on those Griselbrand decks.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

You haven't used Animate Dead with Tidespout Tyrant yet?
That stuff is hilarious, man! [emoji23]
I have, but it didn't matter. I mean I had the force, and its a bit of a liability against GBx lists unless it's specifically on a Tyrant.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[KobeBryan]

You haven't used Animate Dead with Tidespout Tyrant yet?
That stuff is hilarious, man! :laugh:

am i missing something other than saving your animate dead for a later use?

[alaska]

3 Decay main testing tonight was inconclusive. I had it in place of Daze.

Rd. 1: Lands, 2-0. Not much to decay there.

Rd. 2: Pseudo-Mirror Loss 1-2 (Brew with 4 MD Lillis). I guess it could have been good here, but I didn't see the Lilliana until like game 3. Also could have hit a Jace, Vryn's Prodigy.

Rd. 3: BUG Delver Loss 1-2: Lost game three because I got greedy, basically. He had a DRS that became active next turn. I had the option to wait til next turn, he clocks me with Delver down to 6, then I untap and Decay delver, Thoughtseize any interaction he had, Careful study away Griselbrand and IF I drew a land or petal off the study, I could cast Exhume and go hellbent.

I chose to just use my remaining 3 mana to cast Study, then Exhume. He was tapped out. Wham, surgical, he untaps and hymns me. Yuck.

All in all, Decay didn't seem great G1, but I may test it again in a few weeks.

[Nuke is Good]

Tried playing Reanimator at the GP Columbus preview at Pittsburgh (Oh God GP Pittsburgh was awful) to terrible results

R1 Elves:

T1 Elesh Norn
T3 Griselbrand with Sphnix of Steel Wind

R2 4c Delver
G1 Griselbrand T1 opponent was land locked from his brainstorm
G2 I keep a one land hand but it has entomb, reanimate and force backup. I get wastelanded and see no lands for the rest
G3 I forget here. I ended up hardcasting Griselbrand and it got forced, thats how bad it was.

R3 ANT

G1: T1 blind Elesh Norn flip. I bring my opponent down to 3 life then he combos off and tendrils me to near lethal but I misdirect a tendrils on the top of the stack to avoid death. I get him down to 4 life again only to get tendrils again.
G2: He had way more discard than I did permission/discard.

R4 TES

G1: I keep a T2 kill hand with no permission. And he has a T1 tendrils hand and kills me.
G2: T2 sire of insanity gets me there
G3: Hand gets ripped apart.

R5 UWR Miracles

G1: I concede here since I see echoing truth mainboarded.
G2: Empyrial Archangel beatdown
G3: I kept a bonkers hand. Land, thoughtseize, reanimate x3, griselbrand,and a misdirection. When I thoughtseized myself my opponent saw my hand and was visibly worried. Griselbrand was in the yard. On his T1 he brainstorms and immediately windmill slams a surgical extraction. My friend watching my opponent said it was the third card down so if I was able to misdirect from the careful study I got on my next draw step I would have gotten it.


I played poorly and luck wasn't on my side that day. I'm starting to think the Jace is cursed hah.

[lukazlml]

Hey guys,

I'm from Brazil and this weekend we had a 2-day National Legacy Champ with 134 players. I've finished on 12th (7-2 on Day1 and 2-2 day2) playing Reanimator. I've been playing with the traditional UB Reanimator (with green splash on SB) for the past months but was very impressed with the results from Chase playing a 4-color build and decided to mix it on a home made build (sounds bad lol). I was expecting a metagame mixed with Unfair and deathrite shaman based decks and both Izzet Charm and Lotus Petal worked great on my matchs against them.

I will post the decklist here and later I will try to post the matchups for the 13 rounds (just need to gather data from my head and notes).

Reanimator:

3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Grave Titan
1 Tidespout Tyrant

4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
4 Entomb
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Thoughtseize
2 Izzet Charm
1 Ponder
3 Lotus Petal

4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard:

1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Disfigure
2 Massacre
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Show and Tell
1 Chain of Vapor

Updated with the matchs:

Round 1-2 - Bye

Round 3 - Win 2-1 (RUG Delver)
G1: Mull to six and kept a good hand with 1 Reanimate,1 Entomb, 2 lands, 1 Fow, 1 Grisel. He started with tropical ponder. I find a pitch to fow and go off on turn 3 for Griselbrand avoiding daze.
G2: Mull again to 6 and kept a Ok hand with no combo, 1 land but with ponder and abrupt decay. He started with Delver. I miss a land draw and tried ponder with got daze. he follow with mangoose and cage and I died trying to find the second land.
G3: kept the opening 7 with the combo and disrupt. Started with entomb on main phase (avoind soft counters) and hit Grisel on grave. Turn 2 duress and see a hand with REB, Flusterstorm, 3 lands and a Delver. I removed the flusterstorm and combo for Grisel on the spot.
3-0

Round 4: Loss 2-1 (Teammate playing Miracles, top8)
G1: We trained a lot this matchup. Game 1 the faster you combo the better for you. Started with a great hand with seize and combo on turn 2, removes a fow but unfortunately i saw a karakas and decided to combo for Tidespout. The waterhead hits 2 times before a terminus shutdown him. I missed the combo for 3 turns but he also didn't find nothing and I combo again for Grave Titan with seals the game.
G2: A lot of hate comes in for him in this matchup (i think it is 10 cards from the side). The game resumed with a lot of counter war and a vendillion clique hitting to death.
G3:Almost the same as G2 with a vendillion and snapcaster hitting me to death while a Jace was fatesealing my draws.
3-1

Round 5: Loss 2-1 (Grixis Delver, champion)
G1: I know he is playing Grixis and decide to go off on turn 1 with petal and daze. He tried to force the reanimate with get dazed and he scoops for Grisel.
G2: I made a horribly mistake that cost me the game. I kept a six hand with 2 grisels, 1 reanimate, 1 entomb, 1 land, 1 fow. After a lot of think he kept a 6 hand and started with Usea and pass. I think for a moment trying to figure out why he kept a hand with no opening threat and the only options are 2 counter (fow,daze) and/or surgical.I draw a blue card and pass again. On his turn he casts delver and follow with a shaman. I decided to go for entomb at end step (daze me please) with resolves. Now I made the mistake, with 2 grisel on hand I was afraid of a surgical hitting 2 cards of my hand and decided for Iona (o.O). On my turn I tried to reanimate and win the counter war. Iona hits the game naming black but unfortunatelly I died to a active shaman. If I've choosen Griselbrand instead the game was mine.
G3: A lot of counters from him sealed the game. I remember of 1 fow 1 daze 1 snare 1 pierce. Ouch.
3-2 (no more loss if I want day2)

Round6: Win 2-0 (Pox)
G1: I seized him and see a hand with seize, innocent blood, cursed scroll, and 3 lands. Took the seize and go off on turn 2 for Iona.
G2: Almost the same. This time I reanimate a Grisel from hand Iona hits the table next turn.
4-2

Round7: Win 2-0 (Reanimator)
G1: I go off first and hits griselbrand. Hi tried to go off too but i draw 7 and found Daze and Fow.
G2: He tries to go off on turn 2, with get flusterstormed. on my turn I duress him and combo again for Griselbrand.
5-2

Round8: Win 2-1 (BUG Delver)
G1: I kept a excellent hand with combo on turn 1 (via lotus petal) and Fow for backup. Griselbrand entered the game and she scoops.
G2: She started with an early shaman, who gets me to 14 before I found Decay, planning to go off on the next turn. I tried to go off and got countered. On her turn she follow up with another shaman and a Tombstalker (o.O). On my draw I hit another reanimate and hits grisel on the table. on the end step she Submerge it and I die on attack.
G3: Most difficult game of all tournament with tons of sideboard attrition and shaman removing my threats. I remember being at 13 with flipped Delver and Shaman on the other side. On my turn I tried a blind careful study with hits 2 griselbrands (\o/). I discard both and go for exhume. She tried a Fow with gets another Fow and Griselbrand enter the table, leaving me on 5. On EOT she bites me for 2 with shaman and made another shaman and tombstalker. I was on a bad spot. On my turn attacked with Grisel, jump off to 12 again. I think for a moment and decide to draw 7, going again to 5. I draw another careful, an exhume and Elesh. Discard elesh for careful and go for exhume again. She thinks for a moment and removes elesh. I reanimate again another griselbrand and sac the one that just attacked. Pass the turn.
On her turn she draw and pass again (now with 2 shamans active). I Top draw a needle, with force hers to tap the shamans for damage (no creatures on my grave). I attack with grisel, draw 7 and this time I found a Tidespout with enter the game from a animate dead. on her turn I Brainstorm and Entomb to bounce her creatures and the game was mine.
6-2

1 win from day 2. On the last round I see my pairings and my teammate whisper to me: "Elves". Day2 was close.

Round 9: 2-0 (Elves)

G1: pretty easy game. he started with quirion, following with needle and heritage. Tried a natural order with gets FOW. IOn my turn I reanimate an Elesh and he scoops.
G2: he mull to 5 trying to find a shaman or disrupts with no success. I get Iona on turn 2 and he scoops.
7-2

Passed to Day2 on 9th.

Round 10:Win 2-1 (Omnitell)

G1: Pretty easy game. He told me he kept a hand with no counter but with combo on turn2 (via city of traitors). I started and combo for Grisel on 1 protected with daze. he tried to combo on turn2 but 7 extra cards was too much for him.
G2: I kept an Ok hand with disrupts but no combo until turn 4. He cantrips the first 2 turns and tried a show and tell with gets countered (no creatures on my hand). I tried to go off and also gets countered. On hist turn he pondered and go for dream halls. I tried another counter with get pierced and he discard an intuition to put in game omniscience, he shows 2 cunning wish on hand and I scoop.
G3: I kept a combo hand on turn2 protected with Fow. Griselbrand entered the table and 1 turn later Iona joined the party.

Round 11: Loss 0-2 (ANT, top4)
G1 and G2: decide to keep an OK hand both games after mull to 6 and he started the combo on turn2 after duress me both games. Both games I does not found any counter =/

Round 12: Loss 0-2 (Death and Taxes, top8)

G1: Game 1 I kept a good hand with half combo and protection. He started with wasteland (ouch, my only lands was tropical on the table and badlands on hand) Vial and I follow up with badlands. He waste my badlands and them he follows with karakas (ouchx2) and mother of runes. I draw and miss a land, leaving me with only 1 . I pass
the turn he ups the vial counters to 3. On his turn he land a rishadan port to lock my only land, activate vial for Brimaz and I scoops without telling my gameplan.

G2: Kept a good hand with massacre, exhume and cantrips. I started with ponder, found no engine and shuffle. He started again with waste vial. I draw, land and pass.
he follow with revoker for deathrite shaman (told me he was thinking of Grixis Delver) and pass. I Brainstorm on EOT and found no engine again. fetchs for a basic swamp to shuffle top, draw another Brainstorm and pass. he puts mother of runes in play and I follow with IZzet Charm EOT, discarding no creatures. . I draw an entomb, massacre his creatures and entomb Grave Titan. On his turn he tried Serra Avenger with got countered (I was low on life points). On my turn I draw an Exhume and decided to play it. He brings back Avenger (¬¬) and I put Titan in play. He was able to win the race at 2 life drawing a stoneforge to chump my Titan.

8-4 (no top8 for me)

Game 13: Win 2-0 (Counter Slivers)

G1 and G2: Resumes to Elesh on 2.

Final Standing 9-4 (12th, $200)

[PirateKing]

am i missing something other than saving your animate dead for a later use?

No, that's it, bouncing the Animate Dead sends Tidespout Tyrant to the graveyard, letting you bring him back again next turn. Saves him from things like swords or a bounce effect.

[TMagpie]

I've only recently put together a reanimator list. Was hoping to have a third set of eyes to make sure it doesn't look too crazy. I'm enjoying my main deck so far, but my sideboard is a bit off.

4C Reanimator

Creatures: 6
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Xenobite

Spells: 40
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Animate Dead
1 Inkwell Leviathan

Lands: 14
4 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Flat
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard: 15
3 Massacre
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Vendiiion Clique
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Tropical Island

Enlightened Tutor allows me easier access to Pithing Needle (against Deathrite/Karakas/Maze), Animate Dead, and Inkwell Leviathan (to be pitched with Careful Study) without doubling up on any of those three cards. Mentor + Clique also allows me to play a grindier game against control deck or decks with heavy grave hate.

Any thoughts on what I might be missing/overthinking?

[iostream]

I've been testing Chase's list and variations thereof pretty extensively, and I am definitely coming around to his point of view in many ways. I have not missed Ponder or Thoughtseize at all, and Hapless Researcher is the absolute 100% truth. On these three cards, I am sure he is objectively correct in some sense. Izzet Charm and Misdirection have had their moments, but I'm not yet sure they're slam dunks the same way Hapless Researcher is. There are three points where my experience has differed:

- Basic Island. This really helps a lot versus the Wasteland decks, enough that I think 1 Island is better than the 4th Sea.

- Daze. This card has still been terrific for me even in the Izzet Charm builds. I have not found that picking up a land has been much of an issue, and playing both Daze and 6 pitch counters really helps increase the frequency of god hands where you have a reanimation spell backed up by two counters and also makes it more likely that you will be able to answer the first removal spell for your first reanimated fatty. It is sick that there exists a combo deck this fast that gets to play 9-10 free counters.

- Lotus Petal, but only as far as the Miracles matchup is concerned. I do not miss it versus most other decks since the resilient game Chase is trying to play is effective there. But versus Miracles, I think their inevitability in post-board games is insurmountable even with the grindy cards when your opponent aggressively tries to stop a fatty from coming into play at all costs (i.e. cutting basically all the white removal for counterspells and GY hate postboard). I feel like your best hope is to go under, which can be hard without Lotus Petal. I can imagine actually playing 2-3 Lotus Petal in the sideboard just for this. In my testing, G1 is still very much in our favor, but G2 and G3 are highly unfavorable. Perhaps there is some other card that can help.

With that in mind, I've enjoyed playing this small deviation from his list:

2 Badlands
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs

2 Animate Dead
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate

4 Brainstorm
3 Careful Study
4 Entomb
2 Izzet Charm

3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection

1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Griselbrand
4 Hapless Researcher
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant

Sideboard:
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Disfigure
2 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
1 Golgari Charm
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
2 Thoughtseize

I know 3 Careful Study is heresy, but I feel that with 4 Hapless and 2 Charm, you don't need a 10th loot effect.

[JohnBell]

I've been playing Chase's list this Sunday, in a small city tournament, with a little change (No Jace TMS in MD and no snapcaster in SB).
I think the Maindeck is very good, but on the sideboard I've some observation:
1- Is not to many Four discard effect? When we side in all of this cards?
2- Vs Deathrite Shaman Decks, dosen't we need a Pyroclasm?
3- When do we side out Force of Will? Vs Jund, Junk etc...?

Thanks

P.S: Sorry for my bad english.:tongue:

[Stryfo]

@JohnBell:

1- I don't think 4 discard is too many, I frequently bring in 2-3 against the blue tempo and miracles decks, because we can snipe either a threat or a key piece of interaction. I bring in all of the discard in combo mirrors, it makes those matchups a lot easier to play, if I didn't care about the combo matchup (it is already pretty good) I would cut one.

2- Pyroclasm isn't needed, but I think it's an alright call, I just haven't had the time to test it yet.

3- I almost never side out forces, there are always going to be spells we want to counter, both before and after "going off".

[Deckerator]

Do you think the red splash is the "new way to go" ?
Izzet Charm seems quite good. It can handle all the small, for this deck annoying, creatures like Containment Priest, Deathrite Shaman etc.
And for the combo match-up you have a Spell pierce or just a looting effect for putting some creatures into the yard.
Will it become the "new list"?

[Nuke is Good]

Do you think the red splash is the "new way to go" ?
Izzet Charm seems quite good. It can handle all the small, for this deck annoying, creatures like Containment Priest, Deathrite Shaman etc.
And for the combo match-up you have a Spell pierce or just a looting effect for putting some creatures into the yard.
Will it become the "new list"?

I don't think so, it's a good list but some will still favor the speed of petal builds. The "older" tri color lists still put up results in conjunction of the 4 color. My meta warped pretty bad where Lands is pretty big so Blood Moon has come back with a fury.

[JohnBell]

I almost never side out forces, there are always going to be spells we want to counter, both before and after "going off".
How do you side Vs Jund, Red Mavericks etc... MU?



I don't think so, it's a good list but some will still favor the speed of petal builds. The "older" tri color lists still put up results in conjunction of the 4 color. My meta warped pretty bad where Lands is pretty big so Blood Moon has come back with a fury.
I think insted in this meta the 4c list is a better solution. If you want a "Explosive" deck you can play Dredge or Storm...

[Deckerator]

Played some matches against Aggro Loam and Chalice @1 is such a pain in the ass.
Really difficult to handle. Furthermore Scavenging Ooze is annoying too.
I think about adding 2x Show and Tell nowadays to the mainboard.


Tidespout Tyrant is such a bomb. :tongue:

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Abrupt Decay and Echoing Truth both handle Chalice swimmingly. Also, if you can get a critter in the yard turn 1 otp (or a turn 1otp Hapless Researcher), it becomes much easier to maintain your game plan.

You are correct, Tidespout Tyrant is your best choice for Chalice decks in my experience. I test against MUD often (my roommate plays it), and either I get locked out of the game or he scoops to Tyrant. The matchup has honestly gone stale for me.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Asthereal]

am i missing something other than saving your animate dead for a later use?
Bounce Animate Dead, Tidespout dies. Cast Animate Dead again op Tidespout. If you have an instant, you can always rescue Tidespout itself or your Animate Dead from destruction or exile. That's very cool to do against decks that rely on removal and Karakas to stop you.

[Deckerator]

Abrupt Decay and Echoing Truth both handle Chalice swimmingly. Also, if you can get a critter in the yard turn 1 otp (or a turn 1otp Hapless Researcher), it becomes much easier to maintain your game plan.


At the moment i play without Hapless Researcher. Would you recommend testing him?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I like him a lot. Like has been said by Chris, he does a lot of work. He smooths things out, protects against Lili, lets you bait out counterbalance easier. He blocks Batterskull and stops the lifelink, and also gives you an edge in the race, as a one-time blocker will often put it in your favor. I would try him at least.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[iostream]

Hapless Researcher is fantastic. It looks like straight garbage, but it is actually very good here. In addition to what Secretly.A.Bee mentioned, I want to mention two other advantages:

1) Researcher allows you to bank 1 mana into the combo before you are actually ready to go for it. To me, this is the biggest reason why the card is worth playing. Spreading the cost of the combo over multiple turns helps you play around soft countermagic and mana denial much better, and it also gives you some flexibility in sequencing so that you can more effectively play around instant speed GY hate (e.g. Deathrite, Surgical, Faerie Macabre).

2) It is less likely to draw a counterspell than Careful Study because you cast Hapless without a fatty in hand a lot of the time, and they know that, whereas you typically don't just go digging randomly with Careful Study.

To be clear, it can be really awkward to draw multiple Researchers, but the first one is always great.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Yeah, but they pitch to Force/MisD, and it's cool to have a "dedicated" pitch-card mid/late-game.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Nuke is Good]

For the folks that run Hapless researcher, do you only cut ponders for it? If I did that I'd only have room for 2 of at this time.

I'm on the fence with running this Four Color build.

This is my tentative build if I ran no hapless.

Creatures (8)
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells (34)
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
1 Animate Dead
3 Izzet Charm
4 Exhume
2 Show and Tell
2 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
Lands (18)
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
Sideboard (15)
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
4 Thoughtseize
1 Echoing Truth
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Grave Titan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I hate ponder in Reanimator. It's a durdle-do-nothing. I played it in the list I played at GP SeaTac and I would now run 4 Hapless, 4 Study, 4 Izzet Charm and a minimum of 2x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy before ever considering a 1st Ponder.

Having said that, I don't know about the list you posted as to what I would do, I've never owned SnT and therefore have never played it. I might get a couple for Christmas, but I have 0.00 playtime with the card. I'm interested, but that's where it ends.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Deckerator]

I wouldn't play Show and Tell in this deck. Your aim in this deck is to reanimate a target as fast as possible. Therefore you have to put it into the graveyard and cannot keep it in hand. Furthermore it is possible that you have the creature in hand to SnT but it is the one you dont want for this match-up.
Because of that reason i would not play SnT

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I'll be playing the 4c build with Baby Jaces in the main today at the SCG Denver Legacy 5k.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Uggh. 1-3 drop. Report later this week (probably).

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Jon]

I played Reaniderp in a 50 person local today that was on the twitch. Team Tusk and Gigabytes present the Quarterly thing Event. I played this list



1 Grave Titan
2 Hapless Researcher
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Griselbrand
1 Jace, Vyrns Prodigy
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

1 Island
2 Swamp
1 Bayou
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea

3 Lotus Petal
1 Animate Dead
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Show and Tell
1 Thoughtseize

Sideboard

2 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Echoing Truth
1 Massacre
2 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
1 Rushing River
1 Flusterstorm
1 Darkblast

RD1- Brian P. - 4 Color Esper with Skeletal Scrying. 2-1
RD2- Josh H. - 3 Color Enchantress. 2-0
RD3- Andrew W. - 4 Color Aluren. 0-2 ( Bad Keeps )
RD4- Shitty Gavin. - Grixis Delver. 1-2 ( All dem Dazes )
RD5- James H. - Shitty Shardless. 2-0
RD6- Jeremy P. - Anarchy Control with Lava Spike. 2-0

Ended up 4-2. 10th Place. Good for a Plateau. Sold said land for 45 cash. Ate all you can eat BBQ. Broke Even on the day.

Deck is a pile of derp. Felt fine, Didnt want to play the Izzet Charm list. Probably wont play the deck again until I need to derp on people. Good Day.

[Nuke is Good]

I went 2-0-1 in a double elimination event to split at the last round to avoid facing him twice.

I used the four color reanimator list, I wasn't impressed with the differences. Izzet charm never came into play but the one thing I will take from Chase's list that the 2nd misdirection really does help.

2-0 Nourishing Lich
2-1 Maverick

I was incredibly lucky vs the maverick player and I didn't want to push my luck facing him again.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

How many and which fatties do you think are optimal?

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Jon]

4 Griselbrand, 1 Iona, 1 Elesh, 1 Tidespout, 1 Grave Titan Imo


I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

[PirateKing]

7-8 in the main and 1-3 in the side, depending on how nuanced and silver bullet-y you want to get.

At this point we can all see that Girselbrand, Elesh Norn and Tidespout Tyrant are autoinclude in the main. I recommend having a non-legendary offensive card like Grave Titan or Inkwell Leviathan or Sphinx of the Steel Wind in the main as well, extras in the side. Everything else ends up based on what decks do you want to beat; Iona for colors, Sire of Insanity for hands, Blazing Archon for attacks, Empyrial Archangel for damage and so on. Decks I expect more or cards that get fringe benefits against general population decks end up in the main and the rest get sideboard slots.

So as an example, I ran Sire of Insanity expressly for OmniTell, and because I expected a lot of it, and it did good work against storm and any other deck if landed swiftly enough, he got main board positioning. Now that OmniTell is dead, he's more of a super silver bullet against decks I don't expect to see often, so he'll either be in the sideboard, or not at all.

[Deckerator]

Sire is very nice against a field of storm. :)

[owerbart]

Sire is very nice against a field of storm. :)

Yeah I thought the same as you, I really like Sire vs Storm, but in my last games vs Storm I realized all those games I won with Sire could've been the same if i jammed Iona or went for Griselbrand and drawed into FOW. Don't get me wrong, I think the card is really good against Storm, but I think your dudes already fair well aginst them. Sire is horrible against anything else if you jam it after t2. Thats why i moved it to the board and put Grave Titan MD.

Also I know a lot of you guys hate SnT a lot and I completely understand it, but at least in my meta I've gotten good results running them and I wouldn't replace them.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Here's what I'm trying out Saturday at a small tournament:

Md: 60
2 Hapless Researcher
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Grave Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobyte
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

1 Animate Dead
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Entomb
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Careful Study
3 Izzet Charm
2 Thoughtseize
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm

4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sb: 15
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Ashen Rider
1 Coffin Purge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Massacre
2 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
3 Abrupt Decay
2 ???

If I need another land, I'll go up to 61, and it'll be an Underground Sea. I'm not sure what the last 2x slots should be. Any suggestions or glaring omissions?

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Nuke is Good]

Here's what I'm trying out Saturday at a small tournament:

Md: 60
2 Hapless Researcher
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Grave Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobyte
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

1 Animate Dead
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Entomb
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Careful Study
3 Izzet Charm
2 Thoughtseize
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm

4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sb: 15
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Ashen Rider
1 Coffin Purge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Massacre
2 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
3 Abrupt Decay
2 ???

If I need another land, I'll go up to 61, and it'll be an Underground Sea. I'm not sure what the last 2x slots should be. Any suggestions or glaring omissions?

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

Why the SB Jace it feels like either you 1-4x it mainboard since the grave hate is going to further invalidate the card. The 2 ??? slots I'd put additional thoughtseizes or duress. LDV feels weird, it doesn't replace itself on the combo turn so you'd have to use it in conjunction with a cantrip or on opponent's EOT. The life loss I found was neglible in the tin fins deck due to Children but in Reanimator the 1-2 life loss can add up preventing you from reanimating Russel Brand. Also since you are running a slower list, you could also consider pernicious deed for more sweeping pain.

[Asthereal]

@Secretly.A.Bee: I have to agree with Nuke that Lim-Dul's Vault looks bad.
It's a lot more durdly than Ponder, doesn't replace itself and UB is pretty expensive.

For such an effect I'd much rather try Personal Tutor first, since it costs a full mana less so it's a LOT faster, and it can fetch us a discard outlet, a reanimation spell, a discard spell or Show and Tell if you need it. It only doesn't get us Entomb or a creature, which for me was enough reason to not yet have tested it, but if I weigh pro's and con's, I feel Personal Tutor would be better than Vault.

This all said, I'd probably prefer Ponder to either.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

@ LDV: It's nice to hear feedback and I appreciate your opinions, however, I started as a tin fins player and as such I have some solid face time with the card, as well as already having run several goldfish sessions in this build. I'm looking at putting a Duress and another Animate Dead in the board currently, but there is an argument to be made for a second Massacre as well.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Fox]

I'm not sure what you gain by LDV, you can definitely cheat on sideboard cards to find just the one you need, but you're also going to be losing a good deal of life when really digging. A powerful effect, but one you kind of need to pair with some kind of card advantage like dark confidant [unplayable for us], flip-jace, or something like dakmor salvage [dump 2 critters in the yard with the dredge] to name a few.
For the same cost and speed, Dimir Charm might be better and gives us some big game versus SDT/counterbalance.

[Megatron]

So earlier ppl were talking about Show and Tell... For me SnT is a side board card that can come in handy when battling grave hate. You obviously wouldn't bring it in against Sneak and Show, Tin Fins, etc.. But it can be a life savor. I'm confused by these 4 color list. What's wrong with good ol fashion blue/black? I tried abrupt decay and I feel blue bounce is far superior. Have you ever brought in abrupt decay and had your opponent slam a leyline to start game 2? I also don't get Sire of Insanity... I've watched storm players cringe when I play Ruric Thar. The game is literally over and IF they can interact with it they at least take 6. Im playing a cash tourney on Sunday at my LGS and I know Storm will be there. Probably Elves, Painter, Lands, Aggro Loam, BUG, etc... My sideboard consist of:
2 Show and Tell
2 Pithing Needle
2 Disfigure
2 Massacre
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Echoing Truth
3 Duress
1 Ruric Thar
1 Ashen Rider

Yes this is 17 so my conundrum is what to cut?
Btw I play a standard blue/black deck list that runs lotus petals, thoughtseizes, and ponders with all the usual stuff.

[Deckerator]

So earlier ppl were talking about Show and Tell... For me SnT is a side board card that can come in handy when battling grave hate. You obviously wouldn't bring it in against Sneak and Show, Tin Fins, etc.. But it can be a life savor. I'm confused by these 4 color list. What's wrong with good ol fashion blue/black? I tried abrupt decay and I feel blue bounce is far superior. Have you ever brought in abrupt decay and had your opponent slam a leyline to start game 2? I also don't get Sire of Insanity... I've watched storm players cringe when I play Ruric Thar. The game is literally over and IF they can interact with it they at least take 6. Im playing a cash tourney on Sunday at my LGS and I know Storm will be there. Probably Elves, Painter, Lands, Aggro Loam, BUG, etc... My sideboard consist of:
2 Show and Tell
2 Pithing Needle
2 Disfigure
2 Massacre
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Echoing Truth
3 Duress
1 Ruric Thar
1 Ashen Rider

Yes this is 17 so my conundrum is what to cut?
Btw I play a standard blue/black deck list that runs lotus petals, thoughtseizes, and ponders with all the usual stuff.

if i were you i would cut the 2x Chain of Vapor. I dont like this card because it is only good at the beginning of the matches. Later, if you have already reanimated a creature it is crap because you dont wana get your creature bounced. For this reason you play 2x Echoing Truth and i think this is enough.

How good is Ruric Thar for you? In what kind of matches do you board him?
Do you play two more SnT in the mainboard?

[KobeBryan]

Ruric can also double up against delver decks and combo. This may be better than sphinx since it has a slightly larger application.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I think the main issue with Ruric Thar is that he's required to swing each turn. That can be really bad in certain situations.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Nuke is Good]

We are already strong against other combo decks as it is to justify Ruric Thar. Griselbrand and Iona is usually enough to stop opposing combo decks. Want more combo hate, you can easily use Jin like Chase has done or Sire of Insanity if you are on a Petal build.

If someone is really hellbent on taking out Ruric Thar, the 6 damage is a small price to pay. I've bounced an Elves player Ruric Thar just to get my wincon out the next turn, since the Elves folks have that card mainboarded in my area. I'm still partial to bringing out Griselbrand out against a combo deck if Elesh, Iona, or Tidespout aren't the silver bullets.

[Megatron]

if i were you i would cut the 2x Chain of Vapor. I dont like this card because it is only good at the beginning of the matches. Later, if you have already reanimated a creature it is crap because you dont wana get your creature bounced. For this reason you play 2x Echoing Truth and i think this is enough.

How good is Ruric Thar for you? In what kind of matches do you board him?
Do you play two more SnT in the mainboard?

I'm only running the 2 SnT in the side. Game 1 I'm all in on the graveyard stratagy. I can see your point on chain. Late game it definitely seems bad, however early game it can be sweet b/c of its low cost with no drawback. I wonder if wipe away has any value? 3 cmc is a bit steep but EOT split second seems ok if you take first 2 turns to sculp your hand. This is assuming your opponent has a turn 0 or turn 1 graveyard hate hit the field. I feel like the bounce is so critical b/c I typically side out daze when I'm on the draw.( i like to assume i get game one always) I also side out Force of Will against non combo so I have to have a interaction for LotV, Graffdiggers Cage, Relic of Prog., RIP. I know abrupt decay hits 3 of the 4 and DRS but bounce hits them all.

As far as Ruric goes, he's been a house. In my meta the only critters he would potentially swing into his own demise would be a huge KotR or a Merrit Liege. If Lands combos before me then I guess I lost (tide spout only main deck answer). As far as boarding him in, Storm, Delver, etc.. If they play more spells than critters, he's commin out to play.

[Megatron]

We are already strong against other combo decks as it is to justify Ruric Thar. Griselbrand and Iona is usually enough to stop opposing combo decks. Want more combo hate, you can easily use Jin like Chase has done or Sire of Insanity if you are on a Petal build.

If someone is really hellbent on taking out Ruric Thar, the 6 damage is a small price to pay. I've bounced an Elves player Ruric Thar just to get my wincon out the next turn, since the Elves folks have that card mainboarded in my area. I'm still partial to bringing out Griselbrand out against a combo deck if Elesh, Iona, or Tidespout aren't the silver bullets.

This is true, we are already pretty solid against combo. So maybe I should be dedicating another card to this spot for something more troublesome... I have had problems with Aggro Loam in my local meta. I would imagine DnT would be pretty darn rough. Luckily people haven't been playing it lately at my LGS. This matchup already has 2 dedicated spots in my sideboard in Massacre. Tezzerator is another scary one, haven't seen that in a while either though (Ruric might be descent in this matchup..)

[owerbart]

This is true, we are already pretty solid against combo. So maybe I should be dedicating another card to this spot for something more troublesome... I have had problems with Aggro Loam in my local meta. I would imagine DnT would be pretty darn rough. Luckily people haven't been playing it lately at my LGS. This matchup already has 2 dedicated spots in my sideboard in Massacre. Tezzerator is another scary one, haven't seen that in a while either though (Ruric might be descent in this matchup..)

I've played against aggro loam and looks like a very favorable matchup, because they are so slow that you get to play around everything. Tidespout Tyrant is pretty good against them. Post-board I bring extra show and tells (if you are running them) or just your bounce effects because of Leyline.

Ruric shouldn't be that hard for Tezzerator to play against, since they can assemble the token factory and ruric would look silly.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Well, went 1-4 again. I keep flooding. Also, I've gotta get rid of these damned Graveborn foils. They are taco shells that clump when you shuffle, but i can't find Japanese Odyssey non-foils anywhere. In other news, I got to cast a Lim-Dul's Vault 3 times today, and it felt good, strong, even. I suggest you try it. I got to find a Griselbrand and put it second to the top @ the end of my opponents turn, draw FoW, tap jace, draw/discard the Gris, FoW the Surgical Extraction that targeted it as I Exhumed it. Jace also flipped, leaving mewith the option to flashback the Exhume if they countered it. I also used it to find an Entomb twice, never spending more than 2 life to do so. I love it, I'm keeping it.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Godzilla]

Just a thought since this deck fills its graveyard so fast has anyone tried a 1 of gurmag angler or tombstalker as another way to put a potential threat on the board?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Not to my knowledge, I just can't think of where I would be able to shoe - horn it in at...

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Fox]

The issue with going to delve critters is that you're still pretty open to DRS/RiP/Leyline, so sideboard plan becomes doubly ineffective. A sideboard plan that doesn't focus on sidestepping sideboard hate probably needs to focus on changing 2-for-1 zones from graveyard to hand (show and tell) or from graveyard to library (this one is harder since you're not really green for Natural Order-type effects, but Skill Borrower are still live with grisel stormed to top). Of these show and tell plan requires much less slot-intensive sideboarding. As an honorable mention, hex-depths is always a thing.

[Godzilla]

I was just thinking of it as a 1 of mainboard for those moments when you cant seem to get all the pieces you need to reanimate something or off of a griselbrand activation its something you wouldn't mind seeing since you could probably play it for 1-2 mana.

[KobeBryan]

I was just thinking of it as a 1 of mainboard for those moments when you cant seem to get all the pieces you need to reanimate something or off of a griselbrand activation its something you wouldn't mind seeing since you could probably play it for 1-2 mana.

You would need top and more bs effects

[Megatron]

So I played my standard u/b list Saturday in a small event of 9. Lost to Storm in a three game match round 1. Turns out Ruric wasn't the best option game three, got chained by vapor. He duressed me and saw; exhume, entomb, FoW...He took FoW and passed. I was in disbelief! So I entombed EOT putting Ruric in the yard and then untapped, drew, played Exhume and poopies. In hind sight him taking FoW was a clue he had an answer so, lesson learned. Match 2 I played against a helm/RIP combo mixed with painter servant and grind stone. Guess who won that one, I mean a playset of RIP main deck aarrrgghhh! Game 2 he brought in 3 fluster storms and cliques and pretty much gave up on painter combo. I got beat to death by a clique, it happens. Now for the god awful part, I was dead last and got byes matches 3 and 4! Bad day of magic. However, I now see why the risk of playing 3 or 4 color is worth the reward. So for tomorrow's normal legacy night I will replace a basic island and swamp with a bayou and trop. Switch my side board around to include 3 abrupt decays. It doesn't hit leyline but, SnT and maybe even reanimating one of they're creatures that was thoughtseized or countered is a viable attack plan.

[Megatron]

Well, went 1-4 again. I keep flooding. Also, I've gotta get rid of these damned Graveborn foils. They are taco shells that clump when you shuffle, but i can't find Japanese Odyssey non-foils anywhere. In other news, I got to cast a Lim-Dul's Vault 3 times today, and it felt good, strong, even. I suggest you try it. I got to find a Griselbrand and put it second to the top @ the end of my opponents turn, draw FoW, tap jace, draw/discard the Gris, FoW the Surgical Extraction that targeted it as I Exhumed it. Jace also flipped, leaving mewith the option to flashback the Exhume if they countered it. I also used it to find an Entomb twice, never spending more than 2 life to do so. I love it, I'm keeping it.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

You say you keep flooding? I run 15 lands and 3 lotus petals.. What's your manabase look like? I never flood if anything I SOMETIMES have trouble hitting 3 mana for like a thoughtseize lead into an exhume.

[Fox]

Md: 60
2 Hapless Researcher
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Grave Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobyte
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

1 Animate Dead
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Entomb
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Careful Study
3 Izzet Charm
2 Thoughtseize
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm

4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sb: 15
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Ashen Rider
1 Coffin Purge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Massacre
2 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
3 Abrupt Decay
2 ???
Necro'd from a page or two back to answer your question @Megatron

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Yeah, that's absolutely what I'm running currently. I did switch to nonfoil Animate Dead, Reanimates and Exhumes. I'll be swapping the entombs out as soon as I can find someone with Japanese nonfoil ones.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[JohnBell]

Well, went 1-4 again. I keep flooding. Also, I've gotta get rid of these damned Graveborn foils. They are taco shells that clump when you shuffle, but i can't find Japanese Odyssey non-foils anywhere. In other news, I got to cast a Lim-Dul's Vault 3 times today, and it felt good, strong, even. I suggest you try it. I got to find a Griselbrand and put it second to the top @ the end of my opponents turn, draw FoW, tap jace, draw/discard the Gris, FoW the Surgical Extraction that targeted it as I Exhumed it. Jace also flipped, leaving mewith the option to flashback the Exhume if they countered it. I also used it to find an Entomb twice, never spending more than 2 life to do so. I love it, I'm keeping it.


Yeah, that's absolutely what I'm running currently. I did switch to nonfoil Animate Dead, Reanimates and Exhumes. I'll be swapping the entombs out as soon as I can find someone with Japanese nonfoil ones.
Why the FOIL and Jappo's "problem" is relevant in this forum?

However: in the US isn't D&T a problem? I've, with TOP-Guy's-list, much difficulty with White-Based NU... I've insert Pyroclasm insted of Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur (all MU Vs I side it inset Pyroblast/ReB).

[Secretly.A.Bee]

It's relevant to the Archetype due to the foils I currently have being from Graveborn. They clump due to the foil process making them essentially unplayable in a tournament setting, and I am giving other players a heads up before they buy them that this is the case, and should steer clear. You are welcome....

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Megatron]

Why the FOIL and Jappo's "problem" is relevant in this forum?

However: in the US isn't D&T a problem? I've, with TOP-Guy's-list, much difficulty with White-Based NU... I've insert Pyroclasm insted of Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur (all MU Vs I side it inset Pyroblast/ReB).

Death and Taxes is not to popular at the moment around my area (east coast). It was before Omnitell took off and just hasn't really resurfaced. I've seen a lot of Storm and various Delver strategies. I think Massacre is the usual choice in the side to aid in DnT and I'd imagine abrupt decay might be pretty good. That deck is just LOADED with so much hate.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

My goal against DnT is to get an Archetype down asap and if I can follow up with an Elesh Norn, I win. While you set that up, try to keep their clock as small as possible with Massacre, Izzet/Golgari Charm, Disfigure, Decay, whatever. Fetch basics, leave fetches as fetches until you need the mana.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Hank Zhong]

It's relevant to the Archetype due to the foils I currently have being from Graveborn. They clump due to the foil process making them essentially unplayable in a tournament setting, and I am giving other players a heads up before they buy them that this is the case, and should steer clear. You are welcome....

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

That's quite interesting,you'll need a really large sample to prove that there's a statistically significant difference between the graveborn foils, non-foils and other foils, otherwise, it's pure anecdotal evidence or just coincidence.

I've been playing with the graveborn foils and have not noticed any issues, but my whole deck is foil except for 4 seas, 1 bayou, and 1 trop.

Is the rest of your deck foil? I agree that you shouldn't play with them if those are the only foils in your deck, since they can be ruled as marked cards.

Also are you sure it's not a sleeve issue? Older sleeves do get sticky. I use brand new KMC hypermat sleeves every time I play in a major tournament and switch them out after 2 or 3 small tournaments, so I basically replace sleeves every 15 matches or so.

[Nuke is Good]

It's relevant to the Archetype due to the foils I currently have being from Graveborn. They clump due to the foil process making them essentially unplayable in a tournament setting, and I am giving other players a heads up before they buy them that this is the case, and should steer clear. You are welcome....

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

I used Graveborn foils before I upgraded to Judge promo then finally to Oddy Foil. I'd probably shuffle a lot more if you are complaining of clumping. The graveborn ones I had did curl a bit so I would flatten them a good amount then put them back into your deck. Also what sleeves are you using?


That's quite interesting,you'll need a really large sample to prove that there's a statistically significant difference between the graveborn foils, non-foils and other foils, otherwise, it's pure anecdotal evidence or just coincidence.

I've been playing with the graveborn foils and have not noticed any issues, but my whole deck is foil except for 4 seas, 1 bayou, and 1 trop.

Is the rest of your deck foil? I agree that you shouldn't play with them if those are the only foils in your deck, since they can be ruled as marked cards.

Also are you sure it's not a sleeve issue? Older sleeves do get sticky. I use brand new KMC hypermat sleeves every time I play in a major tournament and switch them out after 2 or 3 small tournaments, so I basically replace sleeves every 15 matches or so.

Don't you find that the KMC Hypermats are a bit sharp on the edges? I got papercuts when I was shuffling my vintage deck the first time at eternal weekend. Also, are you still on the traditional UGb list with petals or are you trying the 4 color build?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

That's quite interesting,you'll need a really large sample to prove that there's a statistically significant difference between the graveborn foils, non-foils and other foils, otherwise, it's pure anecdotal evidence or just coincidence.

I've been playing with the graveborn foils and have not noticed any issues, but my whole deck is foil except for 4 seas, 1 bayou, and 1 trop.

Is the rest of your deck foil? I agree that you shouldn't play with them if those are the only foils in your deck, since they can be ruled as marked cards.

Also are you sure it's not a sleeve issue? Older sleeves do get sticky. I use brand new KMC hypermat sleeves every time I play in a major tournament and switch them out after 2 or 3 small tournaments, so I basically replace sleeves every 15 matches or so.

About 1/3rd is foil, but none of the other foils curl, and none of them are clumping like the graveborn cards.

I too use KMC Hyper Mats, and replace them often. Anyone else having issues with the bottom corners of them peeling in half? Maybe that belongs elsewhere in the forum.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Hank Zhong]

I used Graveborn foils before I upgraded to Judge promo then finally to Oddy Foil. I'd probably shuffle a lot more if you are complaining of clumping. The graveborn ones I had did curl a bit so I would flatten them a good amount then put them back into your deck. Also what sleeves are you using?



Don't you find that the KMC Hypermats are a bit sharp on the edges? I got papercuts when I was shuffling my vintage deck the first time at eternal weekend. Also, are you still on the traditional UGb list with petals or are you trying the 4 color build?

Not really, then again, I have callous all over my hands from weightlifting. They are fine, not the most durable for sure, but they are relatively cheap. I'm still on the traditional build, just really haven't had time to test anything else.

[Deckerator]

Played a small tournament of four rounds. Went 3:1 with BUG Reanimator.
Won
2:0 vs Storm
In this match i was a had some lucky time. I played a Animate Dead on Griselbrand attacked, he goes off next turn, i draw 14 and countered his Infernal Tutor. GG
Next match i got duressed away some of my reanimation spells, had a good topdeck with Reanimate and reanimated my Sire of Insanity i played from board(He told me it was the turn before he wanted to start comboing). I attacked a few turns and when he was at 5 life he played chain of Vapor on my sire and bounced it to my hand. I said ok and one or two turns later i reanimated Iona on blue. At this time he had one card, Gitaxian Probe in his hand. He drew Brainstorm and said gg.

2:0 vs Burn
Two fast matches. The first match was turn two Iona on red...he said gg
Next match was a little bit slower and he was stucked on one land. He got me down to 9 life i played show and Tell into Griselbrand. He had nothing to put on the battlefield.

1:2 vs Merfolk
These matches were very interesting. The first match he had a turn one Vial and was quite fast with putting a lot of pressure on me. I tried to push my combo through but he had the force and cursecatchers to stop my combo. On his turn, he played Chalice @1 i had no counter for and i was stucked with all the one drops in hand. At this time i had to do draw & go. He had to much pressure on the board and i couldnt dig fast enough before he put another chalice @2 on the board before i could draw Exhume or animate dead.
The second match i could reanimate Griselbrand quite fast, stopped his turn 1 vial with Pithing Needle and he scooped two rounds later.
The last match was the best one for me because i learned the most against him. He had no vials and i went for Elesh quite fast and that was my mistake. He told me that if i had searched for Iona on blue i would have won the match. But i searched for Elesh, reanimated her and one or two turns later, he played Phantasmal Image copying my Elesh and start building an army full of fishes. He rolled over me with too many unblockable fishes.

2:0 vs Merfolk
Turn two Iona on blue with counter backup..he scooped.
Next match.. i had three Entombs in my first three turns. He was quite slow. I played Entomb at the end of his first turn he countered it with Swan Song and gave me a cute Bird token. He countered my second entomb pitching force to force and he played Nemesis on his turn. I went for Elesh the turn after wipe his Nemesis and attacked with a 4/4 cute bird token. We played some more rounds with him playing nothing and if he had play something i would have had 2x Force and a Echoing truth. Me attacking each round with Elesh and the 4/4 token. He said gg



The last minute decision was 4 Show & Tell in the sideboard because i was scared of graveyard hate but no one was really prepared for it. :-) They had a cage or relic but not much.
Was lucky and i liked it :-)

Edit:
Here is my list:

Creatures:
3x Hapless Researcher
1x Grave Titan
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Archetype of Endurance
4x Griselbrand
1x Tidespout Tyrant
1x Iona, shield of Emeria

Spells:
4x Brainstorm
4x Careful Study
4x Entomb
4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
2x Animate Dead
4x Daze
4x Force of Will

Artifacts:
3x Lotus Petal

Lands:
4x Polluted Delta
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Underground Sea
2x Tropical Island
2x Swamp
1x Island


Sideboard:
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Aetherling
1x Sire of Insanity
1x Inkwell Leviathan
2x Echoing Truth
2x Pithing Needle
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Show and Tell

[JohnBell]

This sunday I did 5-2 with 4C Reanimator in a local tournament (73 Player).
This is the list:
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Griselbrand
4 Hapless Researcher
1 Archetype of Endurance
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
3 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
3 Izzet Charm
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Animate Dead
1 Swamp
2 Badlands
2 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Flusterstorm
2 Duress
2 Echoing Truth
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Pyroclasm
1 Golgari Charm
1 Dread of Night
2 Pithing Needle
The list is similar to the Chase Hansen's list, but with few adaptations based on metagame.

Misdirection is good, but with four FoW there are too much cards that need blue pick.
Thoughtseize is senseless, power Vs Control, overpower Vs combo and a good start card Vs unknown deck.
Izzet Charm is a Swiss knife and Vs. Deathrite Shaman's deck is essential in maindeck but four copy is too many in my opinion.

My difficulty is siding Vs tier 1...
I did so:
UWr Miracles:
-1 Tidespout Tyrant (could be killed by ReB)
-1 Reanimate
-1 Exhume
-3 Izzet Charm (too expansive)
-2 Careful Study
+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Pithing Needle
+2 Duress
+1 Golgari Charm

D&T:
-4 Fow
-4 Reanimate
+3 Abrupt Decay
+1 Pyroclasm
+1 Golgari Charm
+1 Dread of Night
+2 Pithing Needle

BUG Shardeless
-4 Fow
-2 Animate Dead
-2 Careful Study
+3 Abrupt Decay
+1 Pyroclasm
+2 Pithing Needle
+2 Duress

ANT:
-2 Careful Study
-2 Animate Dead
-1 Tidespout Tyrant
+2 Duress
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Golgari Charm

Opinions?

[Deckerator]

This sunday I did 5-2 with 4C Reanimator in a local tournament (73 Player).
Can you tell a bit more against what decks you played? :smile:

You could play Tidespout postboard because you can go Archetype and then Tyrant. Tyrant can bounce a lot of their lands and bring them a few turns back.

[JohnBell]

You could play Tidespout postboard because you can go Archetype and then Tyrant. Tyrant can bounce a lot of their lands and bring them a few turns back.

What MU are you referring to, exactly?



Can you tell a bit more against what decks you played?

I win VS Burn, Shardeless, Soldier, Aluren but lost Vs 4C Delver and *sob* Show&Tell (very unlucky... good MU).

[Deckerator]

What MU are you referring to, exactly?

I talked about miracles. I thought more about this boarding strategy the last few days and i think you are right. (Postboard: -1 Tidespout)
At first i thought about playing Tidespout and try to bounce as many lands as possible back to their hand.


It would be nice to get a Archetype and a Creature with Gaddock abilties on board to stop their Terminus
Do they board out Terminus G2?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Just go Archetype to protect against Karakas, StP and Jace, and then get out Iona on White to stop Terminus. If this board-state occurs, you win.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[JohnBell]

Given that in Italy Miracles is the absolute Tier1, post-side all white removal go out. Miracles play for win the counter-war and it close with jace/mentor/vendilion.
The first creature I want Reanimate is Iona (for Blue), and if she enter the battlefield 90% of time Miracles "raccoglie" (Thats how we say in Italy).
The problem is win the Counter-War and RiP/Priest...

[Secretly.A.Bee]

You are entitled to your opinion, but I wholeheartedly disagree with you and your idea of how Miracles will board against Reanimator. I play Miracles as well, and I would *never* board put any white removal against Reanimator.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Nuke is Good]

You are entitled to your opinion, but I wholeheartedly disagree with you and your idea of how Miracles will board against Reanimator. I play Miracles as well, and I would *never* board put any white removal against Reanimator.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I saw one person do this against me at a GP. Showed me he removed all his white removal spells (Including Council's Judgement) at my complete bewilderment. So an evasive fatty easily beat out their removal in the form of Jace.

[Stryfo]

Most miracles players will (and should) board out a significant amount of their white removal, leaving only a few terminus at most. The reasoning behind this is that removal is not strong against our primary threat, griselbrand, if you are 1 for 1ing us after GB hits the board, you're losing the game, what you want in the matchup is counterspells and a clock, hence boarding out removal for creatures, flusterstorms, and grave hate.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

This feels blatantly counter-intuitive. I digress, but I still have my doubts. I have always been able to win with Miracles vs Reanimator via grave hate, removal, countering key spells and landing a threat, normally a Mentor or entreat, and clean it up. I'll try it out, though.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Deckerator]

I would be surprised if miracles board out their removal against us. A Terminus paired with Jace can be Game Breaking for them.
I wanna play this deck at a big "new-year" tournament.
At the moment I am thinking about few things in this deck. Maybe you can help me :-)

Do i wanna play Daze or Izzet Charm?

I like Daze pushing our combo through their single counter.
Furthermore i think of playing two copies of "Helm of Obedience" in my sideboard. I try it the next few days...
I wanna try it because Death&Taxes plays Rest in Peace, some Miracles too. It is another angle to win with their help.

Another idea i had is pyroblast in the board. What do you think about it? I wanna board it against all the blue based decks attacking us with counters hardly..or kill the big Jace.
Help is greatly appreciated.


Update:

I played a lot matches and the more i play the more i am not convinced of Izzet Charm. CMC 2 (UR) is expensive in this deck.
I couldn't test Helm of Obedience yet.

What do you think of the idea to change Reanimator G2 to Grixis Delver? :D

[death]

What do you guys think of the new Kozilek guy?

Kozilek, The Great Distortion

When you cast Kozilek, if the number of cards in your hand is less than seven, draw cards equal to the difference

Menace

Discard a card from your hand with converted mana cost X: Counter target spell with converted mana cost X

12/12


Non-blue Reanimator decks can definitely use this guy. He can protect himself in a pinch by pitching cmc1 to counter plow, against Storm pitch to counter their rituals, cmc2 counters tutors, extra lands counters LEDs. He's somewhere between Iona and Griselbrand in power level, but he's a 2-turn clock.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I think 10 is a lot of life to lose for something that doesn't auto-win a single specific matchup. I think he's cool, but probably isn't good enough for the list.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Nuke is Good]

I would be surprised if miracles board out their removal against us. A Terminus paired with Jace can be Game Breaking for them.
I wanna play this deck at a big "new-year" tournament.
At the moment I am thinking about few things in this deck. Maybe you can help me :-)

Do i wanna play Daze or Izzet Charm?

I like Daze pushing our combo through their single counter.
Furthermore i think of playing two copies of "Helm of Obedience" in my sideboard. I try it the next few days...
I wanna try it because Death&Taxes plays Rest in Peace, some Miracles too. It is another angle to win with their help.

Another idea i had is pyroblast in the board. What do you think about it? I wanna board it against all the blue based decks attacking us with counters hardly..or kill the big Jace.
Help is greatly appreciated.


Update:

I played a lot matches and the more i play the more i am not convinced of Izzet Charm. CMC 2 (UR) is expensive in this deck.
I couldn't test Helm of Obedience yet.

What do you think of the idea to change Reanimator G2 to Grixis Delver? :D

Don't think we have as many cantrips to make Grixis Delver worth it. You could attempt the Young Frankenstein build which uses both the Reanimation package and Young Pyromancer to apply pressure. When I was trying Esper colors in Reanimator I had monastery mentor in my sideboard, but unfortunately Terminus was on an uptick that week.

[Deckerator]

Yeah i tested it yesterday (the YP + Delver sideboard) and i didnt like it.
How did the Monastery Mentor SB look like? Did you like it ?

[Nuke is Good]

Yeah i tested it yesterday (the YP + Delver sideboard) and i didnt like it.
How did the Monastery Mentor SB look like? Did you like it ?

My Mentor Board still had a reanimator focus to it though. It was

3 Monastery Mentor
3 Serenity
2 Pithing Needle
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Darkblast
1 Thoughtseize

I couldn't justify the white splash enough for me to keep it. My serenties would get countered which defeated the purpose of fighting the hate. I mean its fun as hell to dump lotus petals, entomb, reanimate an elesh Norn with Mentor out but I think it belongs in a different deck shell. I saw back in 2012 in a Japanese Legacy Tournament someone had a Painter transformational board which intrigues me.

Edit: For people still on a lotus petal build and use 15 lands, have you found 3 U. Seas are still sufficient?

[Damaku]

Hey fellow Reanimators!

Yesteday there was the yearly JKentertainment event in Germany with about 175 Legacy players. I endet up with 6:2 and position 12.
I played my beloved UBg Reanimator without tiny Jace or experimaltal things like red splash.

Storm 2:0
RB Goblins 2:1
Elfes 2:0
Shardles BUG 2:0
D&T 0:2
Reanimator 2:0 (On camera, see link below)
Lands 0:2
RUG Delver 2:0

In the End I got a Snpacaster mage and one of the most fun turnaments I have ever played.

Here is my list on tappedout where I try to make some kind of a blog thing about my deck: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-07-15-reanimator/
I also got to play a match on camera. Here is me playing the mirror match against Carl Meinung: http://player.twitch.tv/?volume=0.47&video=v33341157&time=14896#

[Deckerator]

Congrats Damaku,
I played there at JK Entertainment, in Frankfurt Germany too. ;)
Went 6:2 too and placed 15 out of 175. I got a Vendilion Clique (MM15, chinese)

Played the same list (BUG) i posted before but did some changes on the sideboard.

It was my first big tournament and i was really happy with the start. Went 4:0

My matchups:
Aggro Loam 2:0 --> MWP: Grave Titan + his tokens
Dredge 2:0 --> MWP: Grave Titan + his tokens
Esper Stoneblade 2:0
RUG Delver 2:1 --> Griselbrand MWP

Then i had to play on camera and i didnt like it. I was really nervous and couldn't concetrate myself.
Death&Taxes 0:2 --> I failed on playing

Miracles 0:2 --> He got the Counter-Lock early and had the counters for my spells, Mentor did the rest.
Merfolk 2:1 --> Iona on blue on Turn 2 in Game 2 and 3 with counterbackup was the win.
Dredge 2:1 --> Reanimate on my Griselbrand, his Iona on black...GG. Dont know why he boarded G2 and G3 Iona in. I liked it because i reanimate always his Iona because i couldnt find mine fast enough

[Stryfo]

Congrats damaku! Just one thing, I was skimming your primer but on the tapped out page you linked and noticed an error. Keranos can be reanimated through priest as you say, however it can't be reanimated through grafdiggers cage.

In any case, well done.

[idavis]

I played @stryfo's 4C list at CardKingdom 12/14 and never dropped a game.

Round 1: Sultai Delver 2:0 : Close games. I really don't like playing against Sultai Delver. Izzet Charm kills delver and Deathrite nicely. Had to fight through double Deathrite Shaman game 1. Darkblast and Izzet Charm gave me room to work.

Round 2: Black Vice, Winter Orb, Stasis 2:0 : Game 1 I got turn two Iona on blue. He conceded having only seen basic island and Black Vice. Game two, it felt like he had unlimited counterspells. Played Jace, Vryn's Prodigy; it was countered. I eventually reanimated, flipped, and then used his ultimate. A number of turns later, I eventually landed a Griselbrand with The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Winter Orb, Stasis, and two Black Vice in play. Drew 14, Brainstormed, double forced my brainstorm and passed the turn to mill out my opponent.

Round 3: Storm 2:0 : Griselbrand attacking and drawing counterspells. Didn't have a chance for Iona on black given my draws.

Round 4: Infect 2:0 : Intentional draw, but won two straight for fun. Entomb for Darkblast was so good on top of Izzet Charm. Misdirection was nice to move the pump spells onto his Noble Hierarch or my Hapless Researcher.

Being aware of the mana is the hardest thing so far. Leading on a Badlands has gotten me murdered in testing if you don't have more lands in hand. You absolutely need blue mana to function, and black to win. This deck's lines take a lot of practice if you are used to stock Sultai Reanimator.

[PirateKing]

Being aware of the mana is the hardest thing so far. Leading on a Badlands has gotten me murdered in testing if you don't have more lands in hand. You absolutely need blue mana to function, and black to win. This deck's lines take a lot of practice if you are used to stock BUG Reanimator.

This is easily the most difficult thing to master. Being cognizant of your mana will provide you with the ability to execute deeper lines of play. Maintaining a greedy manabase is tough work, it requires constant attention. Don't think you can just jam red in there and play as usual. The payoff is there as these four color results are showing, but just don't think it's free.

[idavis]

Played at Card Kingdom's Legacy Preservation Series last night. Placed 9th of 67. Played against @Stryfo's crew games 1 & 4.

2-1 Infect : Dropped game one as I kept a hand that couldn't beat a good infect hand. IIRC Elesh Norn won game 2. Game three I think I binned Elesh, opponent crop rotated to Bajuka Bog, but Griselbrand brought it home. I should have written down details while it was fresh. Opponent drew nothing but elves instead of pump spells game three to finish.

1-2 Grixis Control: Never played this matchup before. Cabal therapy over and over. Went to turns game three and lost to young pyromancer. I drew darkblast far too late to control my opponents board and never saw an entomb.

2-0 Hypergenesis: Game one I saw a gemstone mine, followed by other lands I didn't recognize and then a city of brass. Not understanding what was going on, I just played draw/go for a while. Then the violent outburst into hypergenesis hit. I had misdirection plus force of will against a single force of will. I then combo and he concedes. Game two, he started with a leyline of the void in play. I opened on hapless researcher, turn two, another hapless researcher. I attacked every turn and killed him with hapless researcher. He tried to go off the turn before he died; I hard cast force of will against a show and tell, then had force of will plus misdirection against his hypergenesis plus force of will. I never drew an echoing truth to bounce the leyline. I wanted to get Jin-Gitaxias out, but I'll take the hapless kill.

2-1 4C Reanimator Mirror: He went off first game one and I didn't have counter magic. Game two I believe I won the counter war and got a griselbrand. Game three was dueling echoing truth, griselbrand, and I got lucky with my opponent drawing nothing to stop me at the end.

2-1 Burn: Game one I get a turn three Iona at five life through a eidolon of the great revel. He had beat me down with a turn 1 goblin guide. With Iona in play, we played draw/go until I discarded elesh to hand size and exhumed him going to three life. Game two I got a turn three iona at 13 life, with reanimate on the stack, opponent casts fireblast taking me to nine and I die to reanimate. Game three, I get Iona out again on turn three.

0-2 Goblins: Game one I exhume elesh norn four times. Opponent had turn one vial and opening hand stingscourger - counter magic was useless. I reanimated stringscourger to get it out of the graveyard. Then exhumed elesh norn. In response, my opponent cycled Gempalm Incinerator killing the stringscourger again bouncing elesh norn. Game two felt the same. This was the toughest matchup.

2-1 Esper Stoneblade: Opponent opens on deathrite shaman, but I get griselbrand in play with a sick deathrite. Game two, I open on a pithing needle which is countered. I am thoughtseized, dures'ed; double deathrite shamans kill me. Game three, opponent's opening thoughtseize is misdirected, following counter wars, my opponent has no hand going into turn three. EOT echoing truth bounces double deathrite shamen, I get Iona on blue, and attack twice for the kill.

So, 5-2 overall. My game five burn opponent was eighth on tiebreakers. My other loss to goblins was second place going into top eight.

Overall the deck played better than I did. Goblins. Goblins..

The Dread of Night was a meta call that failed.

2 Animate Dead
1 Archetype of Endurance
2 Badlands
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Force of Will
3 Griselbrand
4 Hapless Researcher
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Izzet Charm
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Misdirection
4 Polluted Delta
4 Reanimate
1 Swamp
1 Tidespout Tyrant
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Darkblast
2 Duress
2 Echoing Truth
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
2 Pithing Needle
1 Dread of Night
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
2 Thoughtseize

[Spam]

How did jace performed? Did you miss the 4th Izzet?
I'm asking this because Jace has always been so random for me; it can be great, but never felt a real need for it.


Inviato dal mio LG-D605 utilizzando Tapatalk

[idavis]

How did jace performed? Did you miss the 4th Izzet?
I'm asking this because Jace has always been so random for me; it can be great, but never felt a real need for it.


I didn't miss the fourth charm. The Jace is amazing, the 1% of the time he hits the table and lives (He rarely gets to do anything). He is usually a great counterspell, lightning bolt, or sword target. So you have to take your pick, draw out a counter, or he hits the table and helps you cast your spells again, or, against delver, he keeps a delver from doing anything of importance with the +1. If he hits the table against miracles, you might get an ultimate as they have a lot of trouble removing planeswalkers.

[idavis]

I used to run Sultai Reanimator with Deathrite Shaman. Deathrite Shaman:

Eats opposing creatures and gains life to makes Exhume better.
Gives a leg up in the mirror to control their graveyard at instant speed.
Eats dredge spells and creatures.
Removes flashback targets and causes loss of life. Helpful to just kill the opponent as well as sneak passed damage prevention.
Ramps and provides mana fixing.
Provides protection from Liliana of the Veil when a reanimation target enters the battlefield without haste.
Keeps Knight of the Reliquary in check by eating opponent's lands.
Slows down Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise. (not a big thing after the bannings)

Many times my opponents have asked why Deathrite Shaman, then I beat them to death with it. After moving to 4C Reanimator, I have found hiding a lot more difficult, but I have still killed with nothing but attacking Hapless Researchers.

Opening with Verdant Catacombs, fetching Underground Sea, and playing Deathrite Shaman put my build on Sultai Delver. Turn two there will be two or three mana available for Entomb + Exhume or Entomb + Reanimate (or the other combos of course including Show and Tell) with Daze protection. If your opponent thinks you are on Sultai Delver, they are not afraid of losing the game on the next turn and dramatically change the way they play.

Opening on Hapless Researcher puts you on Reanimator and your opponent is digging for counterspells and discard.

What hiding techniques are people using in their various builds, especially the 4C version?

Brainstorm, Badlands, and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy seem to be the only hiding cards for 4C.

Sultai can run Brainstorm, Ponder, Daze without giving away the game plan.

[BigV54]

Hello all! I'm just getting into legacy after a long time of watching and reading and am excited to bounce around some ideas and such in this forum. This is my current build, I'd say version 1.5 or so, and I believe it to be quite good in theory at least. I won't be able to truly test it until Sunday, but I would love some advice or criticism on this list.

Creatures
3x Griselbrand
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Tidespout Tyrant
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Inkwell Leviathan

Spells
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Careful Study
4x Entomb
4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
4x Daze
3x Ponder
3x Thoughtseize
1x Animate Dead

Artifacts
3x Lotus Petal

Lands
4x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Verdant Catacombs
2x Underground Sea
1x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
2x Swamp
1x Island


Sideboard
3x Show and Tell
2x Pithing Needle
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Disfigure
1x Golgari Charm
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Massacre
1x Coffin Purge
1x Grave Titan
1x Keranos, God of Storms


My meta consists of 2 D&T, 2 Shardless BUG, Elves, Manaless Dredge, BUG Delver, Tezzerator, and MUD to note, and then a few odball decks, usually some sort of combo deck. The presence of 3 BUG decks and 2 D&T's has greatly influenced my build as those 5 players are quite good, so if some of my choices seem strange, it could be because of that. If theres anything I could be doing to help those matchups that I'm not doing, I would love to hear about it!


I also keep pretty good notes during play/remember vividly so I will try to post a small report once I get this to an event.

[Spam]

Show and tell has always been a bit odd for my taste. The card is good, but plays poorly with the strategy of the deck imo. However, I do like to run two Omniscience in the sb just to put it into play and then cast my creatures.

P.s. I think Grave Titan it's a must in the main deck, especially if BUG delver is expected.

[Nuke is Good]

Show and tell has always been a bit odd for my taste. The card is good, but plays poorly with the strategy of the deck imo. However, I do like to run two Omniscience in the sb just to put it into play and then cast my creatures.

Are you running a full set of Shows? Otherwise the card is a rather dead draw, fits closer to a full blown Sneak and Show build I feel.

[BigV54]

Show and tell has always been a bit odd for my taste. The card is good, but plays poorly with the strategy of the deck imo. However, I do like to run two Omniscience in the sb just to put it into play and then cast my creatures.

P.s. I think Grave Titan it's a must in the main deck, especially if BUG delver is expected.

I've been considering it, but what would you cut for it? And Show and Tell does feel weird but it also seems like a necessary evil when I'm playing a local tournament with the same dudes over and over. Seems harder to "just deal with" their grave hate when they are playing more than most would.

[Spam]

Yes, if I'm running Show is always a full set. I keep switching back to decays by time just because it only really works when people don't expect them. In a small environment this strategy pays when they start adding hate cards in the sideboard just for you. However this doesn't solve karakas or containment priest.
Showing in Omniscience helps , but I still think decay is better.

P.s.
Iona and leviathan aren't really necessary in the main 60.
You could try to move one of them in the SB.

[PirateKing]

I've been considering it, but what would you cut for it?

I'd move Inkwell Leviathan into the sideboard. Both it and Grave Titan serve the purpose of a non legendary beater, but Grave Titan has a better power to cost and ends up better in match ups not involving white.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Keep iona main, it's too good against too many single-color match-ups that identify themselves early to drop to the board, burn is the most notable, but also g1 against DnT, merfolk (a counter on their Vial and then plopping down Iona will generally get there), and solid against elves even if Elesh is better.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Stryfo]

@secretly.a.bee, I board out Iona against dnt every time, in my experience, it's extremely poor against the 3-4 karakas deck.

[Cpt-Qc]

@secretly.a.bee, I board out Iona against dnt every time, in my experience, it's extremely poor against the 3-4 karakas deck.

I Also board it out in favor of Massacre Wurm, but it's not a bad card to have G1. If he doesn't have Karakas, you just won the game.

[BigV54]

@Stryfo I agree with Iona coming out there.

@PirateKing Considering how bad the D&T matchup can be, I decided on Inkwell over Grave Titan since ol' Inky is so much harder for them to answer. I feel like, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but game 1 vs D&T without Inwell is significantly worse percentage wise for us than game 1 vs BUG flavors without Grave Titan.

Since I expect to see both decks frequently, probably at every local tournament, I went with what gives me more percentage points game 1. I guess it's possible to play both main, but that doesn't seem right at all. It seems like a one or the other kind of thing. Again, this is all just my theory crafting, and I'm quite possibly wrong.

[BigV54]

I Also board it out in favor of Massacre Wurm, but it's not a bad card to have G1. If he doesn't have Karakas, you just won the game.

I feel like this would also be true of Elesh Norn and to a lesser extent Griselbrand. Hoping they don't have a card they play 3-4 of is not the kind of magic I like to play.

That being said, Massacre Wurm seems like sick tech if you're guaranteed to play against D&T

[Cpt-Qc]

I feel like this would also be true of Elesh Norn and to a lesser extent Griselbrand. Hoping they don't have a card they play 3-4 of is not the kind of magic I like to play.

That being said, Massacre Wurm seems like sick tech if you're guaranteed to play against D&T

I only have 1 DnT player in my 30 players meta but I have plenty of occasions to use it as a "Elesh #2" on Elves (2 players), Goblins (2 players), Merfolk (2 players), Dredge (2 players).

[BigV54]

Oh yeah, she's insane against those but none of them run Karakas :tongue: I think D&T is the only mono-color deck where Iona isn't GG

[Cpt-Qc]

And also Miracles! Yeah technically it's not mono color but we all know White is the only color that matter.

Miracles is not necessarily GG when we Iona although it is most of the time.

[Deckerator]

I only have 1 DnT player in my 30 players meta but I have plenty of occasions to use it as a "Elesh #2" on Elves (2 players), Goblins (2 players), Merfolk (2 players), Dredge (2 players).

Iona is great in this meta :-)
Iona on green = elves
Iona on red = goblins
Iona on blue = merfolk
Iona on black = dredge

GG...Iona wins games

[Secretly.A.Bee]

@secretly.a.bee, I board out Iona against dnt every time, in my experience, it's extremely poor against the 3-4 karakas deck.

Sure, me too, however, game one it can mess with their tempo. I was absolutely not advocating that you leave it in for Sb games.

There are too many times that you don't draw an Entomb but you do draw creature X and have a discard outlet and reanimation spell in hand for it to not be more important than an Islandwalking creature, at least when you have other options. Does no one else still play Archetype of Endurance?


Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[PirateKing]

I was playing at a local tournament against D&T lost game 1 to SFM, could never really get anything online. Game 2 I side out Iona and side in a bunch of stuff, including Pithing Needle for the SFM or AEther Vial or whatever, and so in game 2 he leads with Karakas and I lead with Pithing Needle shutting that down, next turn I have Entomb & Reanimate in hand, wishing i still had Iona floating in the 60, the one time it would be a hard lock. But I agree Iona can be better creatures versus D&T.

@BigV54 I agree that Grave Titan is better versus BUG Delver and Inkwell is better versus D&T. My point is that against the rest of the field, as a general beater, Grave Titan is better. Which is why against that unknown deck game 1, I'd rather have Grave Titan.

[Cpt-Qc]

Iona is great in this meta :-)
Iona on green = elves
Iona on red = goblins
Iona on blue = merfolk
Iona on black = dredge

GG...Iona wins games

It is indeed! The downside is that most of the other decks have Deathrite Shaman or other GY hate MD.

[Spam]

Iona is great in this meta :-)
Iona on green = elves
Iona on red = goblins
Iona on blue = merfolk
Iona on black = dredge

GG...Iona wins games
Well, Iona is great yes, but only if you make it on turn one or two.
The real killer for the decks listed here is Elesh, not Iona....imo.
Sire of insanity is also game winning if you drop it on turn one.
I'm not saying Iona is bad or anything, but it can be moved in the SB if the meta calls for it. It has been done before and there's no shame for doing it.

Titan is just great. It can win games by himself. Sometimes you can't just entomb for the card you want, but going study plus titan and reanimate feels good all the times.

[BigV54]

Grave Titan is a faster clock... Ok you got me. Switch made, Grave Titan main Inky side. Thanks for the help! I'll let everyone know how I do Sunday! :laugh:

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I just ruined DnT tonight with 4c Reanimator, the list I last posted. Game one I did it with a turn two Exhumed Gris, which immediately ate an StP eot, but drew 14 (without hitting a Force) in response. Discarded down to 7, pitching both Elesh and Archetype, which I Exhume and reanimated the following turn (my turn 3) for the win.

Game two I reanimate Grave Titan and force the swords, nuff said.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[BigV54]

Alright so I have now my tournament results from Sunday, sorry for the delay, work caught up to me. The tournament was 4 rounds, cut to top 4 with 11 people.

Round 1: BYE! During my wait I played a few rounds against Shardless for funsies and did very well. I think my build is quite strong against them.

Round 2: vs Esper Faeries

Game 1 we both keep 7, I didn't write my exact hands this tournament but I remember it being slow but resilient. Something like Thoughtseize, Ponder, Careful Study, 2 reanimation effects, and lands. This player usually plays some form of control brew, so I figured this hand would do well. I would've been right, but Bob card advantage plus V Clique and Spellstutter Sprite beatdowns got there before I could fight through his counters.

Sideboard: -4 Force of Will, -4 Daze, -1 Elesh Norn, -2 Careful Study
+3 Show and Tell, +2 Abrupt Decay, +2 Disfigure, +1 Massacre, +1 Golgari Charm, +1 Inkwell Leviathan, +1 Keranos

Game 2 we both keep on 7 again, this time I have the turn one Iona and Daze the Force. I name white for Swords and that's that.

Game 3 was a bit more grindy and I think I played it quite well, if I do say so myself. I mulliganed to 5 (my favorite strategy to win game 3's) and kept 2 lands, Golgari Charm, Brainstorm, and Exhume. We play draw go for a bit, with both of us chaining cantrips and doing nothing for several turns. He sticks a Bob on turn 4 and I very greedily wait on the charm, hoping for at least a 2 for 1. I draw into Show and Tell to go with my Griselbrand and decide to fire off the charm first to bait any counter. It gets a Force and I immediately Show and Tell and slam Gris. I draw 14 in response to the swords and sculpt a hand of another Show and Tell, Massacre and Grave Titan. After he reveals Force off of Bob I decide to run it back and Massacre getting the Force and then Show and Tell for Grave Titan and quickly run him over with it.

Round 3: vs Belcher

Game 1 I know what he's on from seeing him play earlier and I mull to a reasonable 6 with a Force. He gets the turn 2 after my incredible misplay. He uses land grant so I have perfect information and turn one plays Charbelcher. I do some pondering, and on his turn 2 he plays Chrome Mox with Simian Spirit Guide and Burning Wish in hand. I say ok, thinking I'll Force the wish, and so he imprints it, exiles spirit guide and belches at me. Yay.

Sideboard: -2 Ponder, -1 Careful Study
+2 Pithing Needle, +1 Golgari Charm

Game 2 he goes to 6 and I Thoughtseize his Charbelcher, making him Empty the Warrens on his turn. I take one hit from some Goblins and then Exhume Elesh Norn for the win.

Game 3 we both keep 7. I play turn one needle on Charbelcher, and turn 2 needle on LED, followed by a reanimated Elesh Norn turn 3. He no longer wants to play magic.

Round 4: vs Lands. We draw into top 4. As an aside, I feel this matchup is in our favor by quite a bit. I do need to test it more but that's just my thoughts on it, wondering how everyone else feels about it.

Top 4: We split $29 or so bucks and I use that plus my winnings from two weeks earlier to snap up a MP Wasteland for $50. Whatabargain!

My list, for reference.

Creatures
3x Griselbrand
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Tidespout Tyrant
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Grave Titan

Spells
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Careful Study
4x Entomb
4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
4x Daze
3x Ponder
3x Thoughtseize
1x Animate Dead

Artifacts
3x Lotus Petal

Lands
4x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Verdant Catacombs
2x Underground Sea
1x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
2x Swamp
1x Island


Sideboard
3x Show and Tell
2x Pithing Needle
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Disfigure
1x Golgari Charm
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Massacre
1x Coffin Purge
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Keranos, God of Storms

[Navsi]

turn 2 needle on LED

Just saying, but that doesn't do anything (other than potentially get your opponent to make mistakes).

[Spam]

Needle on LED is a joke that never gets old.

[BigV54]

Haha good point. Probably should've just named Belcher twice. So two misplays that match. Any other thoughts?

[Spam]

Last FNM I tried a similar list, but I was once again disappointed by Show and Tell. Graveyard hate is so rare that I won all my G2 with reanimate. I was running no discard in main deck, 4 of petals and one misdirection (saved my ass).
Beside that, I think 2 massacre are needed, just to improve our chance to find it agaist D&T, etc...
Lands? Lands!? That deck can be extremely easy or extremely hard, it really depends on our speed imo.

[Ephemeron]

I've only played against lands a few times but I found the matchup to be relatively easy. Tidespout Tyrant is the blowout of the century against them, you can pretty easily get their entire board off the table by the time you win.

[KobeBryan]

I've only played against lands a few times but I found the matchup to be relatively easy. Tidespout Tyrant is the blowout of the century against them, you can pretty easily get their entire board off the table by the time you win.

Lotus petal version has a easier time against lands. Just counter crop rotation

[Damaku]

2 Reanimators in the top 8 of 121 Player Legacy event in Nagoya:

http://mtg.bigmagic.net/article/%E3%82%AB%E3%83%90%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8/%E3%82%B0%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%83%97%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BB%E5%90%8D%E5%8F%A4%E5%B1%8B2016/legacy_TOP8%E3%83%87%E3%83%83%E3%82%AD%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88

Pretty basic list by Toyoshima Takurou

15 Lands
1《島/Island》
2《霧深い雨林/Misty Rainforest》
4《汚染された三角州/Polluted Delta》
1《沼/Swamp》
1《Tropical Island》
3《Underground Sea》
2《新緑の地下墓地/Verdant Catacombs》
1《Bayou》

7クリーチャー
1《大修道士、エリシュ・ノーン/Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite》
1《核の占い師、ジン=ギタクシアス/Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur》
3《グリセルブランド/Griselbrand》
1《エメリアの盾、イオナ/Iona, Shield of Emeria》
1《潮吹きの暴君/Tidespout Tyrant》

38呪文
4《渦まく知識/Brainstorm》
4《目くらまし/Daze》
4《納墓/Entomb》
4《Force of Will》
4《入念な研究/Careful Study》
3《死体発掘/Exhume》
4《再活性/Reanimate》
2《実物提示教育/Show and Tell》
4《思案/Ponder》
1《動く死体/Animate Dead》
4《水蓮の花びら/Lotus Petal》

15サイドボード
1《霊異種/AEtherling》
1《灰燼の乗り手/Ashen Rider》
3《突然の衰微/Abrupt Decay》
1《見栄え損ない/Disfigure》
1《虐殺/Massacre》
1《花の絨毯/Carpet of Flowers》
2《真髄の針/Pithing Needle》
1《実物提示教育/Show and Tell》
2《すべてを護るもの、母聖樹/Boseiju, Who Shelters All》
2《狼狽の嵐/Flusterstorm》

And a verry interesting one by Hayasshi Masahito

21土地
4《Badlands》
4《燃え柳の木立ち/Grove of the Burnwillows》
4《血染めのぬかるみ/Bloodstained Mire》
2《Scruband》
2《新緑の地下墓地/Verdant Catacombs》
2《沼/Swamp》
1《山/Mountain》
1《ヨーグモスの墳墓、アーボーグ/Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth》
1《Bayou》

12クリーチャー
4《死儀礼のシャーマン/Deathrite Shaman》
2《真実の解体者、コジレック/Kozilek, Butcher of Truth》
2《墓所のタイタン/Grave Titan》
1《グリセルブランド/Griselbrand》
1《エメリアの盾、イオナ/Iona, Shield of Emeria》
1《大修道士、エリシュ・ノーン/Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite》
1《灰燼の乗り手/Ashen Rider》

27呪文
4《納墓/Entomb》
4《死体発掘/Exhume》
2《再活性/Reanimate》
3《動く死体/Animate Dead》
4《信仰無き物あさり/Faithless Looting》
4《罰する火/Punishing Fire》
2《師範の占い独楽/Sensei’s Divining Top》
3《ヴェールのリリアナ/Liliana of the Veil》
1《堀葬の儀式/Unburial Rites》

15サイドボード
4《赤霊破/Red Elemental Blast》
1《イクスリッドの看守/Yixlid Jailer》
2《無のロッド/Null Rod》
3《月の大魔術師/Magus of the Moon》
4《ゴブリンの熟練扇動者/Goblin Rabblemaster》
1《魅力的な執政官/Blazing Archon》

Kozilek has to be the new one I think
What do you think about punishing Reanimator?

[BigV54]

I..... Don't know what to say...... Is it genius? Is it insanity? Is it utter crap? I'm intrigued but my gut reaction says that looks awful. Punishing fire kills delver decks, but delver is not too much of a problem in my experience. I just really don't know what's going on there, just for fun though I think I'll throw it together and give it a spin, you know, for science.

[Lithium]

I wonder what the thought behind using Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur in place of the 4th Griselbrand on the more stock looking list, maybe just a way to draw if the Griselbrands got Surgical'd 🤔 Hmm.

[BigV54]

I think that's what he was going for, several people in this forum do the same. Has other advantages as well so definitely not a completely out there choice

[Lithium]

I think that's what he was going for, several people in this forum do the same. Has other advantages as well so definitely not a completely out there choice

Thanks for the response, I mainly play online and haven't touched Reanimator since when UR delver had treasure cruise and was everywhere. Trying to catch up on the latest trends and tech.

[BigV54]

I personally go for more silver bullets, but I haven't tested Jin myself to be honest

[Nuke is Good]

Question for the folks that run Daze and Flip-Jace, how do you guys board these respective cards in-out?

Is it best practice to cut completely Daze when on the draw due to daze being less effective?

I still cannot after all this time effectively playtest Vryn's Prodigy, I don't get enough playtesting for this guy.

[sunlith42]

The new SOI card that was spoiled looks like it could be useful in Reanimator.

Pieces of the Puzzle 2U
Sorcery
Reveal the top 5 cards of your library. Put up to two instants and/or sorcery cards from among them into your hand and the rest into your graveyard.

I think this has real potential as a 1 or 2 of. Lets us reload after a few counter-spells and can put a fatty into the yard.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

3 cmc makes me feel like I don't want to play it. So does sorcery. I understand wanting to live the dream of entomb/reanimation spell/fatty in the yard, but I think it is not a good choice. Most of the time it's going to be dead in hand.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Nuke is Good]

At 3 CMC I'd consider a cheating fatty into play spell like Show and Tell or even Victimize if you are on a hapless researcher build. The card does remind me of dig through time a card I never really used in Reanimator.

[Begle1]

3 CMC also gives you Intuition.

I played around with "Stompy Reanimator", with Sol lands, Intuition and Unburial Rites piles. Would sideboard in Jace and Show and Tell against graveyard hate. The conclusion I came to was... Asking for 3 cmc makes things a little inconsistent.

[Cpt-Qc]

So what's everyone's opinion on the matchup with this new Eldrazi Stompy deck?

I haven't had the chance to test the matchup but I can't help but be scared of the chalice maindeck decks...
Aside from that we can easily stomp it but on the draw, that T1 chalice really hurts.

I believe/hope it'll go back to MUD status (aka niche deck that rarely gets played).

[razvan]

It's pretty brutal to be honest. I got crushed and it wasn't even particularly close.

[mistercakes]

i think a natural response to a ton of eldrazi is to run more show and tells. just thoerycrafting at this point.

[KobeBryan]

i think a natural response to a ton of eldrazi is to run more show and tells. just thoerycrafting at this point.

I think the key against eldrazi is tidesprout with lotus petals build

[Fox]

You certainly aren't doing yourself any favors by skipping on flip-jace (entombing exhume in response to chalice on 1 is a solid line with flip-jace in hand but no FoW). We are on 4x FoW however, and most eldrazi boards seem to want 2-4x Faerie Macabre which says to me that they think this matchup is almost unwinnable [for them] game 1.

Most Reanimator boards have sideboard Decay already, so it's not inconceivable that 1x Ancient Grudge is put into the maindeck as an entomb target (particularly if you don't own flip-jaces). Going half reanimator with half Hex-Depths is similarly strong versus chalice (marit lage wins, or strip all the counters off chalice), but seems like an overreaction. Most Eldrazi lists will turn on Boseju for uncounterable entombs and reanimates since they'll run 3-ball, Lodestone, or Spheres/Thorns.

Post board you'll want needle on Faerie Macabre or Karakas (the latter is generally not needed), Show and Tell will be great (usually), and fetching weird lands to cast Decay will still be as sketchy as it has always been. If you're open to playing transformative sideboards, you'll probably easily find one that nullifies the eldrazi deck.

[Damaku]

I tried Tidespout, it works. In the end just a fast plain Elesh is more disruption.

[Phaeraun]

Hi i'm new to Reanimator, sorry if this question has already been asked but how do you handle DRS?
My local meta is BUG heavy and it feels like i have to play around DRS all the time.
Show and tell helps, haven't tried Izzet Charm yet but seems good.

[Spam]

Needle helps a lot against DRS.
Exume plus entomb also works, but you can also try disfigure.

[Asthereal]

Needle helps a lot against DRS.
Exume plus entomb also works, but you can also try disfigure.
If you splash green, Abrupt Decay can also kill it.
Nice bonus: Decay also kills Liliana, who can be a nuisance.

[Hopo]

I think the key against eldrazi is tidesprout with lotus petals build

If you ever need to beat eldrazis, you only need Blazing Archon.

[Nuke is Good]

If you ever need to beat eldrazis, you only need Blazing Archon.

Blazing Archon doesn't do enough by itself in a lot of Reanimator lists to justfy it's inclusion these days. Might be better off with an early sire of insanity or just attempt to race with Griselbrand again.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Note of interest: Blazing Archon is still good if your meta is full of merfolk like mine is.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Bignasty197]

Has anyone had a chance to try out the Punishing Fire list from Japan that was posted earlier in the thread? It looks very interesting but I don't know if it is actually good.

[Fox]

Hi i'm new to Reanimator, sorry if this question has already been asked but how do you handle DRS?
My local meta is BUG heavy and it feels like i have to play around DRS all the time.
Show and tell helps, haven't tried Izzet Charm yet but seems good.
There is a limited time window in which it is effective, but you can also use Darkblast. It's a natural entomb target that can mill reanimation targets as you dredge. Going into your upkeep you can darkblast shaman which forces them to eat darkblast (or lose shaman, since you'll redraw it though the dredge mechanic, and then recast). It's a much more skill intensive card than something like disfigure as it has unique interactions with cantrips [especially brainstorm], and what it lacks in raw power it makes up for in finesse.

[Nuke is Good]

Note of interest: Blazing Archon is still good if your meta is full of merfolk like mine is.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Curious on this one. Are you dealing with what kind of Merfolk Decks? I've only dealt with two of them at GPNJ and early Elesh Norns/Ionas were enough to get the scoops so I never gave the match up much thought.

[Ephemeron]

Hi i'm new to Reanimator, sorry if this question has already been asked but how do you handle DRS?
My local meta is BUG heavy and it feels like i have to play around DRS all the time.
Show and tell helps, haven't tried Izzet Charm yet but seems good.

DRS game 1 is a tremendous pain the the ass and its ubiquity in legacy is one of the biggest reasons Reanimator isn't a Tier 1 deck. Without maindeck izzet charm, it's very difficult to win G1 if they get to untap with DRS.

Sideboarded games are a lot easier in this regard. Pithing Needle, Abrupt Decay, and Disfigure are all great answers.

[razvan]

Has anyone had a chance to try out the Punishing Fire list from Japan that was posted earlier in the thread? It looks very interesting but I don't know if it is actually good.
I have switched over. I will report results as they come in.

[Phaeraun]

There is a limited time window in which it is effective, but you can also use Darkblast.

But in a scenario with darkblast, if it's in your hand, you have to cast darkblast during upkeep, dredge then cast darkblast again. But if your opponent uses DRS to exile darkblast before draw step, you then need to entomb plus reanimate that turn, costing 3 mana minimum. So without a brainstorm or something, wouldn't izzet charm be better? Just izzet charm end of turn, and next turn entomb plus reanimate costing 2 mana. So correct me if i'm wrong, but without a instant draw effect, darkblast seems less useful than Izzet charm?

[Damaku]

Call me oldschool, but i use S&T when I see a DRS

[PirateKing]

.

But in a scenario with darkblast, if it's in your hand, you have to cast darkblast during upkeep, dredge then cast darkblast again. But if your opponent uses DRS to exile darkblast before draw step, you then need to entomb plus reanimate that turn, costing 3 mana minimum. So without a brainstorm or something, wouldn't izzet charm be better? Just izzet charm end of turn, and next turn entomb plus reanimate costing 2 mana. So correct me if i'm wrong, but without a instant draw effect, darkblast seems less useful than Izzet charm?

You're correct in your assessment of the possible lines of play, but you're losing in on valuing the outcomes. Darkblast on upkeep forces their hand, either they eat it leaving them with a tapped DRS on your main phase, or they let you dredge it back and lose the DRS forever. If you're comboing off this turn, both have the same outcome. If you're not comboing off, then casting Darkblast in the first place isn't a very strong play. Yes to combo off you'd need 3 mana, but it'd only need to be black at minimum, add blue depending on how we're getting a creature into the graveyard. Izzet Charm does a lot of things, but it is difficult to cast. Sure you could Shock the DRS end of turn and combo off on your turn, requiring only two lands, but that's two lands producing three colors minimum, which isn't always going to be available.

In a broader sense of usefulness, Izzet Charm is a better game 1 card for sure, it just does more relevant things, despite casting difficulties. But as far as a matchup specific card, Darkblast is godly against D&T and Elves, sometimes Infect as well. I wouldn't necessarily side it in against DRS decks, but if you're not sold on the red splash yet, it'll serve the same purpose in the situation described.

[theMonster]

Hey, y'all, just traded for all the Reanimator stuff and am considering giving it a go.

I've read lots on here about how cards like Deathrite Shaman are such a(n obvious) pain. I've seen maindeck Pithing Needles, the :r: splash for Izzet Charm/Firestorm, Show and Tell in the maindeck, etc. But what about a card like Sickening Dreams? It's another discard outlet and deals with Shamans, practically all of DnT (except Karakas), Delver of Secrets, etc. It doesn't pair well with the Hapless Researcher plan, but the primary reason to play that card, it seems to me, was to have another discard outlet that can slow the game down a bit by, say, blocking a Tarmogoyf. And I guess it makes Griselbrand a little worse 'cuz it deals damage to us, too. But the utility seems solid, at least on paper. I'm sure you guys have already considered it, though, so I'm curious as to why most pilots opt not to sleeve it up.

Thanks!

[sco0ter]

Has anyone ever tested Lion's Eye Diamond + Unburial Rites, likely in the spots of Reanimate and maybe Careful Study?

I've shortly tested it and it still ran smoothly, especially because Entomb can find Rites, but I have no experience with the stock list.

Burning Reanimator (RB) does run these two cards.

[Damaku]

Has anyone ever tested Lion's Eye Diamond + Unburial Rites, likely in the spots of Reanimate and maybe Careful Study?

I've shortly tested it and it still ran smoothly, especially because Entomb can find Rites, but I have no experience with the stock list.

Burning Reanimator (RB) does run these two cards.

Yes, then you have burning reanimator

[sco0ter]

Yes, then you have burning reanimator

I found the BR list inconsistent. That's why I wanted to have U for Brainstorm and Ponder, but still have the speed of LED. I wonder if anybody had this thought. So basically UB Reanimator with LED + Rites.

[Fox]

I found the BR list inconsistent. That's why I wanted to have U for Brainstorm and Ponder, but still have the speed of LED. I wonder if anybody had this thought. So basically UB Reanimator with LED + Rites.
I'd be careful about doubling-down on the graveyard post board. It might be fine for game 1, but post-board are you bringing out the LED package? (it looks like a huge liability vs cage or RiP)

[idavis]

I played in this month's Legacy Preservation Series at Mox Boarding House last night going 5-2 for 14th place.

Match 1: Sultai Delver 0-2. Game one I never resolved a spell or had a land in play for more than a moment. Stifle, wasteland, and counters kept me down. Opponent never even saw what deck I was playing. Game 2 More of the same.

Match 2: Miracles 1-2. Game 1 I get a turn 2 Iona on white fighting through Force of Will. I sit back and sandbag that I have access to red. Turn 4, he casts Jace, the Mind Sculptor and I fetch and counter with Izzet Charm. He concedes. Game 2 he assembles counter/top, resolved jace, and I concede when he shows me a hand full of counter spells (to save time and try to get a full game three). Game 3 I never drew a second land and was beaten to death by double Monastery Mentor plus tokens.

Match 3: Opponent doesn't show up.

Match 4: 5C Eldrazi 2-0. Yes I know the cards are devoid, but he was using a colorful manabase and was casting Eldrazi of all 'colors'. Game 1 Turn 2 Griselbrand off of Exhume. I sat terrified each turn not known the deck. Killed him with Griselbrand and drew some cards to Force of Will anything he tried to resolve. Game 2 he mulligans to 4 and has a slow start. I get Griselbrand in play, he tried to play the Eldrazi that lets you take control of target create, I drew cards and found Force of Will.

Match 5: Burn 2-0. Play Badlands past the turn. Opponent Bolted me, passed the turn. EOT I entomb for Iona and my opponent cringes. I draw for turn, play a land and exhume Iona naming red. He concedes. Game 2, I am bolted, Force of Wlll a Pyrostatic Pillar. I dump 4-5 creatures into my graveyard (playing around Faierie Macabre which he brought in 3x, but never drew). Reanimate Griselbrand. He attacks with Monastery Swiftspear, but I figured he was trying to bait me to block. He was tapped out, but a potential Fireblast in hand. I was correct, took the damage, and he conceded.

(At this point I had a lot of time to kill so I had a couple drinks. I don't recommend this on an empty stomach. I was a bit buzzed going into this next match)

Match 6: Infect 2-1. Game 1 I keep a slow hand relying on little Jace. I get Jace in play, still not showing Reanimator. I activate Jace and forget to flip. I should have called a judge, but the next turn he killed me. I would have lived had I been able to use the flipped Jace to make his only infect creature small. Game 2 I brought in Pithing needle, Abrupt Decay, Sphinx. Reanimated Griselbrand, drew cards as I wasn't afraid of my life total being low. Exhumed Elesh Norn and he conceded. Game 3 I open with a needle on Inkmoth Nexus. I abrupt Decay his infect creature, Reanimate Griselbrand, he casts Swords to Plowshares, I draw seven and miss a counter. He attacks with Blighted Agent, casts Vins of Vastwood with kicker, I respond with Izzet Charm killing it. I reanimate Elesh Norn which clears his board and then eats a Swords to Plowshares (yes, double StP). From there is was a race of top decks. I cast every loot spell I could find and eventually got Griselbrand in play to seal the game.

Match 7: Temur Delver 2-0. My opening hand is something like entomb, three reanimation spells, land, land, Griselbrand. I entomb Griselbrand, eat two counters trying to reanimate. Third reanimation succeeds as I drew a FoW. He concedes. Game 2: He casts a turn 2 Gurmag Angler. Game two, I ate FoW, Flusterstorm, Daze, Spell Pierce emptying my opponents hand (I had Misdirection plus blue card when he cast Flusterstorm :/ ). With his resources depleted, I top decked an exhume, got Griselbrand in play, drew card until I could get Elesh Norn in play killing his flipped Delver, True Name, and Deathrite Shaman.

I know there are a lot of missing details. I need to figure out a better way to track games.

I played the usual 4C list but changed the sideboard to:

3x Abrupt Decay
2x Duress
2x Echoing Truth
1x Golgari Charm
1x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
2x Pithing Needle
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Sultai Charm
2x Thoughtseize

I never got to cast Golgari Charm and the one time I tried to cast Sultai Charm against Miracles to kill Counterbalance, he had a red blast in hand. I wished I had kept in Darkblast. Jace continues to eat Force of Will, Abrupt Decay, and Lightning Bolt. People really don't like him on the table.

[JohnBell]

Hey, y'all, just traded for all the Reanimator stuff and am considering giving it a go.

I've read lots on here about how cards like Deathrite Shaman are such a(n obvious) pain. I've seen maindeck Pithing Needles, the :r: splash for Izzet Charm/Firestorm, Show and Tell in the maindeck, etc. But what about a card like Sickening Dreams? It's another discard outlet and deals with Shamans, practically all of DnT (except Karakas), Delver of Secrets, etc. It doesn't pair well with the Hapless Researcher plan, but the primary reason to play that card, it seems to me, was to have another discard outlet that can slow the game down a bit by, say, blocking a Tarmogoyf. And I guess it makes Griselbrand a little worse 'cuz it deals damage to us, too. But the utility seems solid, at least on paper. I'm sure you guys have already considered it, though, so I'm curious as to why most pilots opt not to sleeve it up.

Thanks!

Sickening Dreams, too, that the it's a very interesting card, it is better then Massacre because you can side in VS no-white MU (like TA for istance).
It should be noted, too, that the "drawback" effect Vs counter-deck is good if he try to counter our discards effect (like Careful Study, Entomb...).
Sickening Dreams must also be tested in any case...

[Nina]

Out of a Burn Deck's Sideboard:
Which cards would you consider the strongest/ the weakest and why?
(Even though the matchup is so horrible that it might not even be worth the slots).

Tormod's Crypt
Relic of Progenitus
Faerie Macabre (which you can't counter, but discard, but would you not side out thoughtseize against burn?)

Grafdigger's Cage
Surgical Extraction

[Damaku]

Faerie Macabre anoys me the most, since all eldrazi decks seem tu run them. sut down with a needle.
surgical hits hard and not only creatures.
Crypt can be online when you play it t1 and is much harder then relic of progenitus

[JohnBell]

Out of a Burn Deck's Sideboard:
Which cards would you consider the strongest/ the weakest and why?
(Even though the matchup is so horrible that it might not even be worth the slots).

Tormod's Crypt
Relic of Progenitus
Faerie Macabre (which you can't counter, but discard, but would you not side out thoughtseize against burn?)

Grafdigger's Cage
Surgical Extraction

Faerie Macabre is the best card VS Reanimator, but it's only for this MU... Vs all other Tier1 (and 1.5) is very bad or useless.
You have to consider use Tormod's Crypt, because you can side it VS all grave based MU and ANT.

[Nina]

Faerie Macabre is the best card VS Reanimator, but it's only for this MU... Vs all other Tier1 (and 1.5) is very bad or useless.
You have to consider use Tormod's Crypt, because you can side it VS all grave based MU and ANT.
(I ran Crypt before but you having the ability to counter decay and bounce it made me reconsider.)
Having 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel main and 2 Pyrostatic Pillars and a Mindbreak Trap on the board I am not sure I even want to bring in any more gravehate in the matchup. (Maybe a singleton Pyroblast before that even...).

So if i want to target Reanimator primarily Macabre is the best choice? (Although it might still be wromg to devote Sideboard slots to such a horrible matchup. but I guess in a small tournament with some number of Reanimator decks expected it is the right thing to do.

Amyway thanks for the help to an "outsider" and feel free to tell me more.

[merfolkotpt]

Hey all,

I have been acquiring the cards for reanimator because it looks like it is pretty broken and fast enough to get under Miracles a lot of the time, but I am a little confused about some of the options and what matchups they make better and worse?

For the reanimation targets, why Jin-Gitaxious/Sire over additional Griselbrand? Why not or why to include Grave titan main and or tidespout tyrant? Is aetherling vs inkwell just preference out of the sideboard? Also for the maindeck, what does running or not running ponder say about how you expect the deck to work, likewise hapless researcher/JVP.

Finally, why are some versions eschewing show and tell completely from the 75, it seems so important when you consider the kinds of hate that people can bring in against you.

Thanks for the advice, I am mostly just looking to understand the pretty diverse versions of the deck that are out there, since there doesn't seem to be a consensus, mainstream build in top 8s.

[Ephemeron]

Hey all,

I have been acquiring the cards for reanimator because it looks like it is pretty broken and fast enough to get under Miracles a lot of the time, but I am a little confused about some of the options and what matchups they make better and worse?

For the reanimation targets, why Jin-Gitaxious/Sire over additional Griselbrand? Why not or why to include Grave titan main and or tidespout tyrant? Is aetherling vs inkwell just preference out of the sideboard? Also for the maindeck, what does running or not running ponder say about how you expect the deck to work, likewise hapless researcher/JVP.

Finally, why are some versions eschewing show and tell completely from the 75, it seems so important when you consider the kinds of hate that people can bring in against you.

Thanks for the advice, I am mostly just looking to understand the pretty diverse versions of the deck that are out there, since there doesn't seem to be a consensus, mainstream build in top 8s.

1. Sire is great in a meta where you can expect a lot of storm or really any combo deck that requires a critical mass of cards to win (I'll include sneak and show in that as well and kinda infect). If you can land him it's usually game over for those decks.

2. Grave Titan is good against Liliana of the Veil decks specifically, but is a beating against any fair deck in general. You can also realistically cast him if the game drags on which you can't say for a lot of the creatures. Tidespout Tyrant is lights out against Lands and generally very good against the big mana decks like MUD where you can bounce their expensive crap and go to work on their mana base.

3. Aetherling is specifically for Miracles since it's so hard for them to deal with. Inkwell is kinda a generally good card since it's so big, has shroud, and is mostly unblockable since so many decks in legacy play blue (plus trample). Some people like him as a sideboard card to bring in against Death and Taxes since all your legendary threats are so anemic in that matchup.

4. I really like Ponder since this is a combo deck and Ponder is always good in combo decks. I haven't played Hapless Researcher so I'm not gonna try to speak on him. JVP is a good card in Reanimator but its possible he's better as a sideboard card. On the one hand, he does everything you want (loot, flashback discarded/countered spells). On the other hand, he's a 2 drop that does nothing when you cast him while this deck is trying to be lightning fast game 1. In sideboarded games that tend to slow down to a grind when you have to slog through hate, he's a lot more reasonable of a card.

5. The biggest problem with Show and Tell is that Reanimator isn't really designed to be a Show and Tell deck. You've got cards like Entomb and Careful Study that are in the deck to get creatures into the yard, but you don't want that at all with S&T. It kinda pulls the deck in two different directions. It really comes down to personal preference though, S&T is definitely a powerful card that just invalidates a large amount of hate cards that will be brought in against you.

[PirateKing]

Hey all,

I have been acquiring the cards for reanimator because it looks like it is pretty broken and fast enough to get under Miracles a lot of the time, but I am a little confused about some of the options and what matchups they make better and worse?

For the reanimation targets, why Jin-Gitaxious/Sire over additional Griselbrand? Why not or why to include Grave titan main and or tidespout tyrant? Is aetherling vs inkwell just preference out of the sideboard? Also for the maindeck, what does running or not running ponder say about how you expect the deck to work, likewise hapless researcher/JVP.

Finally, why are some versions eschewing show and tell completely from the 75, it seems so important when you consider the kinds of hate that people can bring in against you.

Thanks for the advice, I am mostly just looking to understand the pretty diverse versions of the deck that are out there, since there doesn't seem to be a consensus, mainstream build in top 8s.

Most of these points have been discussed extensively before, I'd suggest going back an reading some previous posts on the issues you outline.


Jin-Gitaxias in a list is usually a hedge against Surgical Extraction and Extirpate, while also providing a life-less way to draw cards consistently. He'll be used to accelerate you into a secondary threat rather then relied on to close the game outright.
Sire of Insanity is a whole other issue. He was popular before DTT was banned when Omnitell was rampant, coming down fast killed that deck outright, along with a number of other useful combo deck collateral. Now that collateral alone isn't enough to earn a spot in most lists.
Tidespout Tyrant should be mainboard in every list, he's our only solution to a number of matchups, and in general just good against everything else. Once you know your opponent, you can side him out for better silver bullets, but never before game 1.
Grave Titan is a big dumb non legendary creature that does great work against Liliana of the Veil and decks that run her. 10 power for 6 mana is an excellent curve as well, and can really tip the math in your favor against simple creatures like Tarmogoyf and Gurmag Angler. He is general purpose enough to get a mainboard slot in most lists.
Inkwell Leviathan is a little more specific, better evasion but much easier to race outright. If your threats are targeted removal, say from D&T in particular, Inkwell is a better choice than Grave Titan.
If in contrast to targeted removal your threat is sweepers like Terminus, Ætherling is a better choice. You trade a whole turn of the clock for being much harder to kill, albeit much more mana hungry. But the Miracles matchup can also be solved though other cards as well, which is why you don't consistently see Ætherling in lists compared to Inkwell, which serves the D&T matchup better than any other available creature.

Ponder lists are focused on the cards in hand, which is good if you also intend to use Show and Tell as an alternative route. Hapless Researcher focuses on always having access to a discard outlet, along with a number of other nuanced lines of play. Trust me, once you've run Reanimator long enough, you'll know the frustration of having a creature and multiple reamiation effects in hand and watch yourself die to a Tarmogoyf. I've yet to test with the new Jace yet, but everything I've read on here suggests his number 1 use is to eat a counter or removal spell from the opponent.

You'll see Show and Tell not included because frankly, it's a poor strategy for our deck. S&T devoted decks maximize cantrips to assemble an in-hand combo as fast a possible, and we're just not good at matching that efficiency. Most avenues of hate can be better beat with one card answers, allowing us to maintain combo slots and not gunk down the deck with card that are dead without the matching pair.

Hope this gets you closer to where you're trying to get to.

[merfolkotpt]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the two different perspectives on the questions I had. I did do some searching around in the thread, but it was hard to find something primer-y that isn't very out of date.

You mentioned that you thought there were "other ways to deal with miracles" when talking about aetherling, could you speak a little more to that? My sense was that the Miracles MU was mostly about just being very fast game 1 and games 2 and 3 were grindier since they bring in a bunch of cards to fight us on the stack, though karakas is a thing to be concerned about against certain versions.

[Nuke is Good]

So, I got a phone call from one of my friends from the shop. There is a newcomer that went 4-0 at the Legacy weekly while I was at work. He's running Naya Zoo (!). Apparently he handily defeated BUG, Tin Fins, Death and Taxes, and ANT. Back in the day wasn't Empyrial Archangel the goto to fight Zoo? I'd typically go for Elesh Norn for creature based strat but for any deck packing white I usually don't go for Elesh unless I have Misdirections or Forces.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

The way I try to beat Miracles is with Archetype of Endurance and then Iona on white. If it's g2 or 3 and you think they boarded out StP like some Miracles players apparently do, I go for Grave Titan. It's a fast clock that makes them have the Terminus or die.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[PirateKing]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the two different perspectives on the questions I had. I did do some searching around in the thread, but it was hard to find something primer-y that isn't very out of date.

You mentioned that you thought there were "other ways to deal with miracles" when talking about aetherling, could you speak a little more to that? My sense was that the Miracles MU was mostly about just being very fast game 1 and games 2 and 3 were grindier since they bring in a bunch of cards to fight us on the stack, though karakas is a thing to be concerned about against certain versions.

Archetype of Endurance plus a second creature is one way as Secretly.A.Bee mentioned. I've used Keranos, God of Storms plus pressure from other creatures to win games, as it's immune to everything they have sans Council's Judgement. Understand, Ætherling is ace against Terminus, but beyond that he's pretty meh, so it's purely a meta call. Other creatures are a less powerful in that one regard, but aim to eliminate a broader spectrum of hate.

[ofchickens]

Hi there!

I usually play Burn in legacy, and I am wondering if I should even bother sideboarding for Reanimator or just give up on the matchup and save slots. It seems very hard to sb any cards that are strong vs Reanimator and are useful in other matchups. Here are my ideas, and I'd love to hear any thoughts from the enemy.

Burn Sideboard Options:
4x Leyline of the Void - I think this is my strongest option vs reanimator since it doesn't slow me down at all, can't be countered, and doesn't die to abrupt decay. Has some use against ANT and of course storm, but not much else.

2-4x Grafdigger's Cage - Very strong vs reanimator (I think?) but vulnerable to fow, daze, abrupt decay, and discard on the draw. But has use against elves, ANT. and dredge of course. Can also play if drawn later.

2-4x Ashen Rider - Ok this is kind of a crazy idea, I would sb these instead of GY hate and then choose to draw first and discard one in my hand. Then bring it back if they cast Exhume, forcing them to use Reanimate and take 7+ damage which might put them in range of Fireblast etc. This is probably a terrible plan, but Ashen Rider is the best thing I can also sb vs Show and Tell (another miserable matchup for burn) and some Reanimator seem to play show and tell too.

or Sideboard nothing and worry about matchups Burn has a chance against? Have any of you even lost to burn?

Thank you evil Reanimator players.

[KobeBryan]

Hi there!

I usually play Burn in legacy, and I am wondering if I should even bother sideboarding for Reanimator or just give up on the matchup and save slots. It seems very hard to sb any cards that are strong vs Reanimator and are useful in other matchups. Here are my ideas, and I'd love to hear any thoughts from the enemy.

Burn Sideboard Options:
4x Leyline of the Void - I think this is my strongest option vs reanimator since it doesn't slow me down at all, can't be countered, and doesn't die to abrupt decay. Has some use against ANT and of course storm, but not much else.

2-4x Grafdigger's Cage - Very strong vs reanimator (I think?) but vulnerable to fow, daze, abrupt decay, and discard on the draw. But has use against elves, ANT. and dredge of course. Can also play if drawn later.

2-4x Ashen Rider - Ok this is kind of a crazy idea, I would sb these instead of GY hate and then choose to draw first and discard one in my hand. Then bring it back if they cast Exhume, forcing them to use Reanimate and take 7+ damage which might put them in range of Fireblast etc. This is probably a terrible plan, but Ashen Rider is the best thing I can also sb vs Show and Tell (another miserable matchup for burn) and some Reanimator seem to play show and tell too.

or Sideboard nothing and worry about matchups Burn has a chance against? Have any of you even lost to burn?

Thank you evil Reanimator players.

Faerie macrabe

/thread

[owerbart]

Archetype of Endurance plus a second creature is one way as Secretly.A.Bee mentioned. I've used Keranos, God of Storms plus pressure from other creatures to win games, as it's immune to everything they have sans Council's Judgement. Understand, Ætherling is ace against Terminus, but beyond that he's pretty meh, so it's purely a meta call. Other creatures are a less powerful in that one regard, but aim to eliminate a broader spectrum of hate.

Where the HELL do you get time and space to resolve TWO creatures vs Miracles?

[JohnBell]

The way I try to beat Miracles is with Archetype of Endurance and then Iona on white. If it's g2 or 3 and you think they boarded out StP like some Miracles players apparently do, I go for Grave Titan. It's a fast clock that makes them have the Terminus or die.

You play Vs very n00bs players...
Post-Side a good Miracles player side out All white removal (at the most 1-2 Removal remain in the deck).
Miracles win Vs us with counter-war and RiP/Priest.
If one Creature enter in our battefield we easy-win the game. Stop.

In Italy the Tier1 is UWR Miracles, so I have in side 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All and 3/4 Show and Tell.

[Fox]

My record for *barely* beating miracles in a pre-sideboard game was 5 reanimations (3 successful), griseldraw 7 twice, and wasting their karakas (before it could be activated). You don't just get 1 reanimation and you're fine, this matchup is miserable. Post-board Boseju plan (for SnT) plan would definitely help though, as it identifies the correct way to fight counterbalance (not fighting it, and staying ahead on deck slots).

When you talk about 1 creature entering for us being autowin vs miracles, remember we lost 8 life reanimating grisel [+1 for fetch maybe] and then lost another 7 as you draw in response to karakas or swords. The other three copies of reanimate are probably useless, and they only need a second land to drop RiP/priest/counterbalance and the game is over. Even pre-board about half of their draws still deal with reanimation spells or their resolved targets.

[Spam]

You play Vs very n00bs players...
Post-Side a good Miracles player side out All white removal (at the most 1-2 Removal remain in the deck).
Miracles win Vs us with counter-war and RiP/Priest.
If one Creature enter in our battefield we easy-win the game. Stop.

In Italy the Tier1 is UWR Miracles, so I have in side 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All and 3/4 Show and Tell.
Ah, boseju, THE reason to play show and tell imo.
I do really like exume and Animate the Dead against miracles, just because it seems they have a hard time dealing with them even after balance has joined the field.

P.s. I went 3-3 at my last tournament last week (50 ppl). I was completely disappointed by Iona. Decks have learned to answers it on so many levels that feels bad. Anyway, We're facing an Eldrazi invasion and our deck has the potential to crush it without effort, but they run 4 leyline of the void just for us, so ST might get good again

Inviato dal mio LG-D605 utilizzando Tapatalk

[JohnBell]

My record for *barely* beating miracles in a pre-sideboard game was 5 reanimations (3 successful), griseldraw 7 twice, and wasting their karakas (before it could be activated). You don't just get 1 reanimation and you're fine, this matchup is miserable. Post-board Boseju plan (for SnT) plan would definitely help though, as it identifies the correct way to fight counterbalance (not fighting it, and staying ahead on deck slots).

1) Do you speak pre-side, I said post-side. Pre-side we don't have RiP/Priest problem...
2) Post-side we don't play Reanimate, because we have many cards to side out for side in many other cards (we need Abrupt Decay).


When you talk about 1 creature entering for us being autowin vs miracles, remember we lost 8 life reanimating grisel [+1 for fetch maybe] and then lost another 7 as you draw in response to karakas or swords. The other three copies of reanimate are probably useless, and they only need a second land to drop RiP/priest/counterbalance and the game is over. Even pre-board about half of their draws still deal with reanimation spells or their resolved targets.
Karakas? Where?

Post-side Miracles leave the removals, if you opponet know how to play. One creature (in the worst scenario) is what we need.:cool:

[Nordvoll]

1) Do you speak pre-side, I said post-side. Pre-side we don't have RiP/Priest problem...
2) Post-side we don't play Reanimate, because we have many cards to side out for side in many other cards (we need Abrupt Decay).


Karakas? Where?

Post-side Miracles leave the removals, if you opponet know how to play. One creature (in the worst scenario) is what we need.:cool:

2) Terrible advice! We need to be as fast as possible against Miracles.

[razvan]

So I played that japanese list with Deathrite Shaman and Liliana and Punishing Fire.

It's pretty fun, it's pretty strong, but you can screw up so easily. Fetching with tops is of paramount importance so you have to sequence it right.

I went 3-1 with a bye, beating elves and normal reanimator, losing to BUG Delver where I could have probably won had I not made numerous errors. I will keep playing it and see how it goes.

[Islandswamp]

I recently picked up reanimator again, here's where I'm at. I think the list is fairly close to where I want to be, but I think I need some extra practice against some of the top decks. The MTGO leagues are apparently overrun with Eldrazi so I've tried to make a list that doesn't automatically lose to a turn one Chalice of the Void on one.

2 Tropical Island
4 Reanimate
4 Careful Study
3 Daze
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Lotus Petal
1 Swamp
4 Force of Will
1 Echoing Truth
3 Griselbrand
4 Exhume
4 Entomb
4 Polluted Delta
3 Ponder
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Island
2 Thoughtseize
1 Tidespout Tyrant
4 Brainstorm
1 Show and Tell
4 Underground Sea
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Flusterstorm

SB

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Massacre
3 Pithing Needle
2 Show and Tell
1 Blazing Archon
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Echoing Truth

[Lormador]

All of the discard outlets still cost 1 mana except for Vryn's Prodigy, so I don't think there's going to really be a way to go through a Chalice. Switching the Flusterstorm to a Spell Pierce would help though, giving an efficient and solid answer to Chalice when we're on the play.

[Islandswamp]

All of the discard outlets still cost 1 mana except for Vryn's Prodigy, so I don't think there's going to really be a way to go through a Chalice. Switching the Flusterstorm to a Spell Pierce would help though, giving an efficient and solid answer to Chalice when we're on the play.

Yeah I don't have JVP at the moment, but I did want to run one. Spell pierce is probably better than flusterstorm. I'm used to flusterstorm being the stone cold nut in Vintage, but spell pierce is probably just better in this case. I have included the main deck echoing truth and show and tell to give me something to do in case I'm on the draw and I don't have the force for the turn one chalice.

The blazing archon has been great against MUD the few times I've played it. I assume that most eldrazi decks would have to burn two dismembers to take one out and they can't win with it in play. Its my most with a clock you might say.

[JohnBell]

Yesterday I do 5-1 with this list:
3 Griselbrand
1 Grave Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Hapless Researcher

4 Brainstorm
3 Careful Study
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtsize
4 Force of Will

1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta

SB:
3 Show & Tell
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
1 Dread of Night
1 Massacre
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sire of Insanity

The Abrupt Decay into main is the "Innovation". If you prefer a control list than a Explosive list, you can consider this list.
By the way:
4C Delver 0-2 (too fast too many counter)
UWr Miracles 2-1 (lost pre-side)
BUG Team America 2-1 (I have made a mistake with side in G2)
Solitaire (Enchantress) 2-1 (Humility has killed me in G2)
BUG Team America 2-0 (No error with side :tongue:)
Infect 2-1

Top8: D&T... the worst MU. I've waived, with this list D&T is 40:60 pre-side, 70:30 post-side. "Explosive" list could do better...
There is still no Eldrazi Stompy in my meta... on the paper [card]Blazing Archon[/cards] might be the solution IMHO.
Other than that, what is your opinion about this list?

[DNSolver]

Has anyone considered Ratchet Bomb in the sideboard? Helps against multiple hate cards. Specifically, 2 Deathrite Shamans or Rest in Peace + Counterbalance. Vulnerable to Abrupt Decay but its a proactive way of fighting multiple hate cards. Costs zero mana on the turn we go off, set to 2 can stop Containment Priest even if they flash it in.

Edit: also helps fight Chalice on one or other taxing effects out of Eldrazi.

[death]

Engineered Explosives > Ratchet Bomb
Stormtide Leviathan > Blazing Archon

[Islandswamp]

Engineered Explosives > Ratchet Bomb
Stormtide Leviathan > Blazing Archon
Engineered Explosives isn't a bad idea at all. It works well through spheres and thorns and it hits a lot of things.

Sent from my A521L using Tapatalk

[PirateKing]

Has anyone considered Ratchet Bomb in the sideboard? Helps against multiple hate cards. Specifically, 2 Deathrite Shamans or Rest in Peace + Counterbalance. Vulnerable to Abrupt Decay but its a proactive way of fighting multiple hate cards. Costs zero mana on the turn we go off, set to 2 can stop Containment Priest even if they flash it in.

Edit: also helps fight Chalice on one or other taxing effects out of Eldrazi.

I'm currently running the 4 color build, so I use a copy of EE in my side along with Pernicious Deed to help cover the situations you described. I used Ratchet Bomb when I was on the traditional UB build. They're both a good catchall with subtleties between them that benefit from specific situations, but I'd definitely support having something that can clear the board against multiple annoyances.

[Nuke is Good]

Deed has been working well for me on the UB(g) build. Feels roughly the same speed of EE, at worst it's 3 mana to take out a chalice or tokens.

[PirateKing]

Deed, while being the slowest sweeper we have, you can't discount the "X or less" clause. I've turned more than a few games around by sticking Deed and then wiping both their hate and threats of the board in multiples to open a clear path for me.
Only snag I've discovered is since it names the types of old, Planeswalkers enjoy immunity.

[Lormador]

Might anyone have a place to start for a UBr list with Young Pyromancer as a transformative sideboard option?

[itrytostorm]

Once you realize you are facing Miracles game one, what becomes your game plan? I feel very comfortable after board, but game one balance, Karakas, Venser are brutal.

[Fox]

Once you realize you are facing Miracles game one, what becomes your game plan? I feel very comfortable after board, but game one balance, Karakas, Venser are brutal.
They usually have to tap out for venser, giving you a window to find what would otherwise be a DRS removal spell. Pithing Needle in the main is also a solid choice. Although you should be getting grisel first, and before they get to Venser mana, hexproof targets could include: Archetype of Endurance, Narset, Enlightened Master, Sphinx of the Final Word, Inkwell Leviathan, and Silumgar, the Drifting Death.
It should also be noted that Stifle is a fine card, and it stops Faerie Macabre.

[Islandswamp]

Do you think that Jace Vryn's Prodigy is deserving of a main deck slot? Having a 2 Mana discard outlet seems like a good thing for games you can't force a turn one chalice.

Sent from my A521L using Tapatalk

[KobeBryan]

They usually have to tap out for venser, giving you a window to find what would otherwise be a DRS removal spell. Pithing Needle in the main is also a solid choice. Although you should be getting grisel first, and before they get to Venser mana, hexproof targets could include: Archetype of Endurance, Narset, Enlightened Master, Sphinx of the Final Word, Inkwell Leviathan, and Silumgar, the Drifting Death.
It should also be noted that Stifle is a fine card, and it stops Faerie Macabre.

instead of final word, why don't you just play vexing shusher. (of course you need to play the 4 color build)

[Fox]

instead of final word, why don't you just play vexing shusher. (of course you need to play the 4 color build)
Hexproof. Miracles will always find a terminus or council's judgement [so it won't matter in the end], but you're looking for a threat immune to karakas and swords.

[razvan]

I played the BRg list again, to a 3-1 finish.

Beat Omnishow (Dave), Miracles (Chavin) and Eldrazi (Pierce). Lost (again Josh) to Thought Lash - Lab Maniac (with plenty of Misdirections, MD Flusterstorms, Top/CB).

The deck feels really awesome, I am having far more fun with this than traditional Reanimator. I miss Brainstorm, but Top, Liliana, Punishing Fire and Deathrite Shaman more than make up for it. Also Faithless Looting gets flashbacked a LOT. Mana is more stable, you have more game, stuff like that.

I don't know if I can categorically say it is better, I don't have Lotus Petal so I am missing a lot of the turn 1 Entomb/Reanimate, but otherwise, I do actually think it's better. FWIW.

[PirateKing]

The deck feels really awesome, I am having far more fun with this than traditional Reanimator. I miss Brainstorm, but Top, Liliana, Punishing Fire and Deathrite Shaman more than make up for it. Also Faithless Looting gets flashbacked a LOT. Mana is more stable, you have more game, stuff like that.

I don't know if I can categorically say it is better, I don't have Lotus Petal so I am missing a lot of the turn 1 Entomb/Reanimate, but otherwise, I do actually think it's better. FWIW.

Could you elaborate more into "betterness" you feel for the deck?

[razvan]

I sometimes find that especially games 2 and 3, we get buried by the hate, and the other angle you attack from is very helpful. Even game 1, you sometimes get stopped by random counterspells, and/or only draw one part of your combo and not the other.

This obviously still happens with this deck (the amount of creatures/reanimates is roughly the same, you have slightly more ways to put it in the GY with this deck), but you have game with the fires and the Shamans and the Liliana outside it.

I think maybe I am more cut for this type of midrange-y deck with a combo that can come out on top if necessary.

[PirateKing]

So speaking of a midrange variant, this is spoiled from Shadows:
http://imgur.com/Ej4uX8y

Two mana is asking a lot unless you're getting a 7/7 flying out of it, but as an aggro based discard outlet, you could draw up some comparisons to Hapless Researcher which I enjoy and does get run in a few lists.

Both are creatures, dodging Spell Peirce.
Both can discard cards at instant speed, at the end of your opponent's turn.

Hapless Researcher comes down a turn faster and draws a card, but you lose the body in the process. This is primarily a con, but can be nice against lifelink creatures (beat MUD's Wurmcoil Engine this way). Hapless Researcher is also blue for pitching purposes.

Heir of Falkenrath costs two mana for an sub-stellar body, but you keep your creature after discard, swinging Delvers with the best of them.

If you're looking for a strategy to "go wide" while constantly threatening a massive creature, this might be something to keep an eye on.

[razvan]

I am excited about Heir of Falkenrath. I am not sure if it's "great" in this deck, but it's an exciting card for sure.

[theMonster]

Hey, y'all, sleeved up Reanimator for the first time last night and went 3-1, losing to Junk NicFit and beating Burning Reanimator, Shardless BUG and Storm. Here's what I played:


4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Island

3 Lotus Petal

3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Grave Titan
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Careful Study
2 Thoughtseize
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
2 Sickening Dreams
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

// sideboard //

2 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Golgari Charm
2 Echoing Truth
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind


I wanted to test Sickening Dreams, as there's a fair number of Deathrite Shamans and DnT in my meta. I don't own Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, so I thought having access to a :2:-drop discard outlet in the maindeck in case of Chalice of the Void that also solves a problem for the deck could be good. The sideboard probably needs work, or I need more practice with the sideboard strategy.

---

Round 1: Junk NicFit

G1. I keep a pretty loose hand: Brainstorm, Force of Will, Reanimate, Exhume, three lands - do I ship this? When in doubt, I wanted to keep sketchy hands to get a sense of what the deck needs. I play U-Sea and pass. He casts Cabal Therapy. Since he'll probably name one of the blue cards in my hand in the dark, I respond by Brainstorming my FoW and Reanimate. He names Force, sure enough. I draw my Force, make my land drop and pass. He plays Veteran Explorer and takes my Exhume. I draw Reanimate and pass. He casts another Therapy. I flood out and die to Siege Rhino and Sigarda, Host of Herons.

Out: 1 Elesh Norn, 2 Dreams, 1 Animate Dead, 1 Iona (a mistake - just name green, and all the creatures are gone)
In: 1 Sphinx, 2 Decay, 1 Needle, 1 Truth

I thought having targeted removal was better than the sweeper because I didn't want to enable Explorer. Maybe that's wrong. Echoing Truth seemed real bad in the matchup, but I was afraid of Leyline of the Void. I don't know his list well.

G2. T2 Griselbrand feels so awesome.

G3. I keep 2 FoW, Daze, Entomb, Reanimate, 2 lands. He plays Deathrite, and I Force it, pitching Force. I play land and pass. He casts Green Sun's Zenith for 1, which I Daze. I Entomv for Grizz EOT, Reanimate him on my turn and pass. He attempts to Path to Exile Griselbrand. I draw seven and only find a Daze, so it resolves. I then proceed to cast three more reanimation spells, and he has answers for all of them. We get into a draw-go stall. At one point I Entombed Grave Titan, which looks like a mistake in hindsight; I was at 1 life with Griselbrand in hand and seven mana. Had I binned him and drawn Titan, I had a shot to win. Eventually Rhino put me out of my misery. Mistakes were made, especially in sideboarding.

Round 2: Burning Reanimator

G1. I keep a T2 reanimation on the play. I die to T1 Tendrils of Agony. Shucks.

Out: 1 Elesh Norn, 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Dreams, 1 Exhume
In: 2 Truth, 2 Duress, 1 Flusterstorm, 1 Pierce

G2. I Ponder and pass. He casts Faithless Looting and bins Grizz. I untap, Reanimate his and win.

G3. We nuked each other's hands for the first two turns. I'm stuck on one land for a few turns with a Tidespout Tyrant in the 'yard. Exhume is super awkward. Eventually I Brainstorm into a Petal and Animate Dead. I have a Daze in hand in case I need to bounce a threat. I get him to 7 life, so he can't activate his own Griselbrand once he gets it in play. I bounce it, and two swings from Tyrant wins it.

My sideboard plan was probably horrible. Feel free to let me know.

Round 3: Shardless BUG

G1. T2 Griselbrand. Good lord, this deck ...

Out: 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Animate Dead, 1 Iona, 1 Daze, 1 Ponder
In: 3 Decay, 1 Sphinx, 1 Duress, 1 Needle

G2. T2 Grave Titan after Forcing his T1 Deathrite. I mean, I feel like I've had above average draws this tournament.

Round 4: Storm

G1. T2 Iona. Jeez.

Out: 2 Dreams, 1 Tyrant, 1 Elesh Norn, 1 Animate Dead, 1 Careful Study, 1 Daze
In: 2 Duress, 1 Flusterstorm, 1 Pierce, 1 Golgari Charm, 1 Snapcaster, 1 Inkwell

G2. We trade hand disruption spells and cantrip for a while. Eventually I have three lands and two Petals in play with a Grave Titan in hand. He goes for it, and I hard-cast Force to counter his hellbent Infernal Tutor. I then Brainstorm into a Careful Study, which bins Titan and finds Exhume. Two-turn clock, too fast.

---
This deck was a blast. I was definitely on the better side of variance, though. Again, still need to work on sideboarding. Are you guys ever boarding out Dazes on the draw, or are they necessary to force through our plays? Also, with two Sickening Dreams maindecked, I might be able to play only two Abrupt Decays. My round 1 opponent and I discussed a sideboard Unburial Rites for grindy games. In that case, I would probably play a miser's Scrubland and adjust my fetches. Worth it? With Petals, it shouldn't be too tough to get to :3::w: to flash it back after, say, Entombing for it. Too deep?

Would love feedback, especially regarding sideboarding. Thanks for reading!

[Fox]

So speaking of a midrange variant, this is spoiled from Shadows:
http://imgur.com/Ej4uX8y
Two mana is asking a lot unless you're getting a 7/7 flying out of it, but as an aggro based discard outlet, you could draw up some comparisons to
It seems like an Oona's Prowler reloaded. If transform dodged removal I could see this being a much better choice. We haven't seen the madness cards yet so maybe Oona's symmetry would make it unplayable, but even with the power creep I don't think we'll be fortunate enough to see competitive reanimonster/madness decks in legacy.

Theory-crafting for a moment though, there is a very strange combo I've seen in legacy cubes where griselbrand's draw 7 basically makes Psychatog instantly lethal (with summoning sick grisel). If this hidden synergy [drawing just to sluff cards from hand] is something you want to unlock, I think you still have to go with Oona's due to the "once per turn" clause on Hier of Falkenrath (totally not a copyright infringement from skyrim's Falkreath...and the werewolf mission there).

If you're wanting to change zones of deployment post-board to dodge traditional hate I think Show and Tell is generally better - so this discard/madness/value idea is meant to play through both yard hate [RiP/cage/DRS/leyline] and Containment Priest, at the same time? It seems like too many moving pieces but the general idea seems to be:
-Oona's Prowler in play.
-brainstorm grisel under another card
-next turn play Skill Borrower
-hold priority, draw 14
-discard outlet value somehow?

It probably needs Lion's Eye Diamond playset, and is more likely to be a Tin-Fins style deck. It should be noted that LEDx3, discarded Grisel, and discarded Call to the Netherworld = hardcast grisel (but at this point I think you have what you need for the storm kill). Sounds tremendously fun and maybe more resilient, albeit more janky, than traditional Tin-Fins in g2-3.

[Deckerator]

Played the "end of the year - top 16" tournament at our local store.
We played 4 rounds and then played 2 rounds for the best four.
My matches:
2:0 BUG Delver
2:0 Burn
2:1 Grixis Delver
1:2 MUD

Top 4:
2:1 Colorless Eldrazi (Endbringer was such a bomb against my one beater)
The last match i exhumed Griselbrand, Elesh Norn and Archetype of Endurance for the win. ^^

Final:
1:2 MUD the same i lost before

#2 place finish.

[heat_wave]

Regarding the reanimation targets, I am impressed with the single Sphinx of the Steel Wind in the main (local meta getting infected with Eldrazi and different flavors of tempo, so I gave it a shot) and a Blazing Archon in the side. I also remember seeing a sideboarded Void Winnower in some list on SCG. Do you have any ideas where it could shine? If it turned off odd mana costs, it would definitely be a staple, but what is it good against now?

[Nuke is Good]

Decided to use Reanimator today with a split into Top 4.

2:1 Burn
2:1 Stiflenaught with Eldrazi Mimic
Draw with Death and Taxes (thank god)

Nothing special. The stiflenaught matchup was rather miserable, I only won on the back of Sire of Insanity and my opponent time walking himself by stifling my one land hand. Do the Eldrazi decks even have a silver bullet card at all? Endbringer if it hit the field would have been miserable for me.

[PirateKing]

Do the Eldrazi decks even have a silver bullet card at all? Endbringer if it hit the field would have been miserable for me.

I don't see how Griselbrand isn't enough to just outright race them. If you'd need a silver bullet I've included Blazing Archon in my side as local Merfolk is on the rise for me.

[Nuke is Good]

I don't see how Griselbrand isn't enough to just outright race them. If you'd need a silver bullet I've included Blazing Archon in my side as local Merfolk is on the rise for me.


I should have clarified that I wasn't sure how to deal with the Eldrazi Mimics that copy the Dreadnaughts, I lost out against that on game 1 vs stiflenaught. My metagame has become inbred. Three people run dreadnaughts in their builds. I'll probably test either Stormtide or Blazing Archon though.

[Fox]

I should have clarified that I wasn't sure how to deal with the Eldrazi Mimics that copy the Dreadnaughts, I lost out against that on game 1 vs stiflenaught. My metagame has become inbred. Three people run dreadnaughts in their builds. I'll probably test either Stormtide or Blazing Archon though.
Better idea, become the fourth. Here's your board:
-Stiflex4
-Vision Charmx3
-flex slot (Torpor Orb, Dack Fayden, Vision Charm #4, Trickbind)
-Phyrexian Dreadnought x4
-Teferi's Realm x2 (this is replacing abrupt decay)
-Steady Progress x1 (also replaces abrupt decay, no more chalice on 1)

Tighten your mana base to just UB (maybe 1 red source if you choose dack), 1x Dakmor Salvage (entomb target), 2-3x flip-jace, and go to up to 2-3x Wasteland. Your mana base is 14-16 lands (3x Sea, 1x Island, 1x Swamp, 1x Dakmor, 2-3x Wasteland, 6-7x Deltas and Misty), 4 petal, and 4x entomb for dakmor if things go south.

If you don't want to join in the fun, just put 1x Darkblast (entomb target) to kill the mimic with ability on the stack. It is hard to give advice on "stiflenought" with mimics since that could be ~10+ radically different archetypes.

@Pirateking Best case: Swamp. Entomb Grisel. Reanimate down to 12...oh that's a 12/12. Draw 7 and you're forced to chump with grisel. You're not the only one capable of using petals and a 2 card combo, and they can just as easily suicide a dreadnought turn 1 if they sniff out an exhume.

It is important to understand just how similar Dreadnought is to Reanimator, it's different creatures and different zones...ideologically though they are the same deck. What's more, they are forever bound by Flip-Jace; a card you should only use with Entomb and/or Stifle in your deck (unless you're playing vintage).

[Islandswamp]

I don't see how Griselbrand isn't enough to just outright race them. If you'd need a silver bullet I've included Blazing Archon in my side as local Merfolk is on the rise for me.

Blazing Archon has been great for me when I've needed it. I have it in my sideboard.

I played through two of the Legacy Leagues with Reanimator so far, and the first one went poorly. After crushing the first game, I just kept having match after match where my deck lost to itself. I'd die with four reanimation spells in hand and no creatures to target, things of that nature. I did make a few errors in that play through, but not enough to account for such a poor record.

Then I played through a second one with a nearly identical build. I again lost the first round to a poor draw, I kept playing matches though and didn't lose a single game after that, finishing 4-1. IT's not terrible, and the match I lost could easily have been a win with a pair of decent draws. I was pretty impressed with the number of times I beat Deathrite Shaman, I think 3-4 of my opponents were playing it.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f324/josephfiorini06/4-1%20deck_zpszmpmud3p.png

Instead of playing a main deck Animate Dead, I have one Show and Tell. Show and Tell can come in handy when you're unable to counter a Deathrite Shaman or Scavenging Ooze, or when your opponent has Chalice of the Void on one, shutting off Reanimate and Entomb/Careful Study. Also Show and Tell pitches to Force of Will, which is huge in my opinion. The deck has a ton of black cards, so I find it hard to have Force online sometimes.

Also in the main deck is one Echoing Truth. I've been thinking about swapping this out for a Pithing Needle, because several of the cards I have Truth for could also be dealt with by using Needles. The main reasons I've kept Echoing Truth in are that it pitches to Force of Will, it bounces fatties in mirror matches or pseudo-mirrors (this has surprised a TON of people and been great), and it can sweep other creatures or tokens in a pinch. Also it could potentially bounce a Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere, or any number of problematic permanents. It can't stop Karakas though, which is why I keep wanting to find room for a main deck Pithing Needle.

In the first run through the League I played two Thoughtseize, the second time I played three as you can see in the picture. Thoughtseize was pretty great, but I find myself sideboarding it out sometimes. Not because it's bad against that many decks, but because I need space for Needles, Decays, or whatever. Taking out too many blue cards makes Force bad, and taking out too many parts of the Reanimation spells also neuters the deck. I guess I'm still working on solidifying the plan I'm going to use each time. I hate cutting Thoughtseize as it is almost like a counterspell, but something has to give.

*** Someone mentioned Sphinx of the Final Word as an alternative to Archetype of Endurance. I'm testing it now to see how it goes, but I'm not sure about it. I like that it's blue for FOW, but I am still unsure. You're never going to be casting a seven mana spell in a deck with 14 lands and four lotus petals. That said I can imagine reanimating this would be sweet, especially since you're going to have free reign to reanimate other stuff afterwards.

[Dutch253]

Hey guys, quick question. I'm new to the deck and am playing a pretty stock BUg list. The question is, in the Miracles matchup what do you usually side out to bring in Show and Tells? Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PirateKing]

Hey guys, quick question. I'm new to the deck and am playing a pretty stock BUg list. The question is, in the Miracles matchup what do you usually side out to bring in Show and Tells? Thanks!
Daze is less good against Miracles, they'll enjoy enough mana that they won't typically tap out except for a turn 2 Counterbalance. Careful Study is less good with Show and Tell, so some number of those could be cut as well. Hand disruption becomes better, so that should stay and any in the board should come in as well. Obviously if you have Boseiju, Who Shelters All, those come in as well.

If you're running a BUG list, Abrupt Decay on Counterbalance plus Thoughtseize/Duress should be enough to land a non-legendary creature like Inkwell Leviathan and then holding a Force for Terminus.

[tarmogoat]

I am struggling to finish my Reanimator because I can't get the duals anywhere *sigh*

This is where I'm at:

4x Lotus Petal
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder
4x Careful Study
4x Entomb
4x Reanimate
1x Thoughtseize
1x Animate Dead
4x Exhume
3x Daze
2x Show and Tell
4x Force of Will
3x Griselbrand
1x Tidespout Tyrant
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Grave Titan

Lands
4x Polluted Delta
2x Darkslick Shores
1x Island
2x Swamp
1x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Watery Grave
2x Flooded Strand

Sideboard:
2x Duress
2x Pithing Needle
2x Flusterstorm
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Massacre
1x Dread of Night
2x Show and Tell
1x Inkwell Leviathan

Any advise on how to improve the manabase to reduce the effect of not having U Seas will be greatly appreciated. It's hard to run shocklands when playing 4 Reanimates...

[Fox]

Any advise on how to improve the manabase to reduce the effect of not having U Seas will be greatly appreciated. It's hard to run shocklands when playing 4 Reanimates...
Sunken Hollow might be ok, though you may want +1 fetch. River of Tears probably plays better with a strategy that wants 2 basics in play than Darkslick Shores.

[Deckerator]

If i were you i would add 2 Verdant Catacombs. (Fetch for black or postboard fetch for the tropical/bayou)
8 fetches without many duals seems better. I think your first fetch can be a watery grave. 2 life isnt a problem. Maybe you can add a second watery grave but that is your decision. If you fetch for the second land you can fetch on basics. I often do this because i am scared of wasteland^^ darkslick shores seems great because you dont need more then two lands. We have a low curve and play petals.