[Deck]BUx Reanimator

[feline]

http://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/31093_1.jpghttp://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/28225_1.jpghttp://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/64003_1.jpg

If you like cheating "bombs" into play, like Griselbrand & Iona, Shield of Emeria way before they could ever typically hardcasted, then putting them into the Graveyard & Reanimate'ing them into play as early as the first turns of the game, then a strategy focused on rising stuff from the grave, this long time deck that has been around for format that is Legacy, might also be a deck for you.

1) Playing Reanimator
2) Successful decklists & trends
3) Card Choices
3a) Maindeck
3b) Sideboard
4) Price Guide
5) Awesome Links
6) 20 match ups

1) Playing Reanimator:
Your goal will be to take down the opponent in a combo style deck that tries to cheat a bomb into play from the graveyard by Reanimateing it, then swinging at the opponent to take their life total down to zero, as a general description, that is about as basic as it gets, more specifically however...

Starting hand First you will want to look for these key cards:
~Animate Dead, Reanimate or Exhume as "reanimation."
~Entomb, or Careful Study + a "bomb", like Griselbrand as "an enabler."
~Force of Will, Daze or Thoughtseize as "protection"
~And of course, mana as in Island Swamp Polluted Delta Underground Sea.

Turn 1 If you have discard like Thoughtseize in hand, use it on them to see their hand, take out a key spell if it's problematic for you going off, like opposing discard or counterspells. If you don't have the discard, then your next card to look for will be Entomb or Careful Study with a "bomb" in hand (Big creature to reanimate), if you have that, you can Entomb at the end of their turn, yes it is instant speed! Your other way to go off will be to ditch a creature to the graveyard with Careful Study so it can be Reanimated afterward. The 3rd option for your turn 1 play will be Ponder, if you know what you're playing against & you know they are more likely to have disruption, sometimes it can be more beneficial to use draw first in an attempt to get more disruption of your own in an attempt to prevent them from countering your combo when you try to ditch something to the graveyard & reanimate it. Your other option will be access to another mana from Lotus Petal, if you get lucky enough to have a Reanimate in hand, because your other enablers are 1 converted mana cost (Careful Study & Entomb) you may even be able to "go off" on turn 1, which is more explosive than most decks can deal with. These will be most of your turn 1 plays.
~A note about Entomb it gets any card from your deck to the graveyard, the key cards to remember that you will be going for are creatures that are extremely powerful, examples of most recent trends:
Griselbrand 7/7 Lifelink, pay 7 life, draw 7 cards, flying, lifelink. (The primary target, go to "bomb" that is good against all strategies because of it's massive card draw alone, on top of being a 7/7 threat, & a lifelinker against aggro as well.)
Iona, Shield of Emeria 7/7 Flying, As Iona, Shield of Emeria enters the battlefield, choose a color. / Your opponents can't cast spells of the chosen color. (Especially effective against combo & control decks, cut combo off from ever doing anything, or cut control out of their main color so they can't deal with your 7/7 flyer properly.)
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite 4/7 Vigilance, Other creatures you control get +2/+2, Creatures your opponents control get -2/-2. (A primary target against creature based decks, whether it's traditional aggro, tribal, or even combo type creature based decks like dredge & elves.)
Tidespout Tyrant 5/5 Flying, Whenever you play a spell, return target permanent to its owners hand. (Can answer any problematic permanent in play, & can even give you a tempo edge when you're ahead by bouncing the opponents lands back to their hand, stalling them out from ever doing anything relevant since they keep getting stuck on low mana.)

Turn 2 Will primarily be spent more on the second half of your combo, since the converted mana cost of most spells, or the mana curve of Reanimator is ridiculously cheap, nearly everything costing 1 & 2 to cast, you can easily "go off" on your turn 2 consistently uninterrupted, & even with Force of Will free to cast, or a previous turn Thoughtseize you can be aggressive enough to even go off through an opposing Counterspell when you have back up that is your own counters. The key cards to look for after "setting up" (as in, getting a creature to the graveyard through Entomb or Careful Study) will then be to cast Animate Dead Reanimate Exhume. These will get your creature out of the graveyard, & depending on your match up, when it resolves, you will have a very good chance of having the win at that point, all it takes after you Reanimate, is to just make the win "offical" by taking your opponents life total from 20 to 0.

Turn 3 & beyond This is where, unless you're being disrupted more than you can handle, you will likely start going for the kill, swinging with whatever creature you decided to reanimate from the graveyard to play. Usually if you're at this point, you basically have the game, it's just making it official by getting them for lethal so you can go to the next game. However, even in scenarios where they can answer your creature, you still have disruption back up in the form of counterspells, as well as the ability to draw into more business that will allow you to just Reanimate the creature a second time if it goes back to the graveyard because of your opponent. Often enough though, 1 Reanimation will be enough, as they will be doing everything they can to try and stop you, because that creature coming out will likely be the end of them very fast. The key things you have to look for just in case are removal that can still get at your creatures, as far as red/burn goes, that will almost never be enough to kill your creatures as they are just too high on their toughness ratio, after that, it will be sacrifice effects like Innocent Blood or Liliana of the Veil targeting you to sacrifice a creature, but luckily if that does happen to resolve past your counters, you can still just reanimate again, the same applies for "most" removal all the way to sweepers like Wrath of God. The one key type of removal you have to watch out for is removal, that doesn't put your creature back into the graveyard, mostly Swords to Plowshares as it is a Legacy staple in most decks with Plains, so if you see that color across from you, try to get something that can't be targeted by Swords like Iona, Shield of Emeria naming white. You can also get Griselbrand if you have enough life to just draw a bunch of cards off of it, so that if they try to swords it, you can draw into either a counterspell, or more business just to reanimate again, & having all those cards in hand means you'll be discarding, so it's even a discard outlet for your creatures in hand that you want to go to the graveyard.

The kill Whether you come out smoothly and take them from 20 to 0 with no problems, or you have to Exhume, then Reanimate & then Animate Dead again, if your threats keep coming out, you're still doing your job, and you will net the win, backed up by disruption that both helps you "combo off" in the early game, then protects your creature in play as it starts swinging, Reanimator is a very effective strategy in the format that is Legacy, having been around as a strategy for years, & still years to come.

Reanimator today:
Griselbrand: Another thing to note is an emphasis on Griselbrand, the power to be able to draw 7 cards, potentially combo off even more because you drew another Careful Study / Entomb & a Lotus Petal, then Exhume a second threat into play can really lock the game in your favor, most decks have a hard enough time dealing with a 7/7 flying lifelinker, but the ability for it through it's card draw, to allow you to cheat another bomb out into the battlefield when you draw 7+ cards, means you can pair Griselbrand up with something like Iona, Shield of Emeria to really cut them off can be devastating. If you can choose anything, because of the gamestate, to put into the graveyard (Usually Entomb) then get Griselbrand, it is the primary, go to Reanimation target. On top of possibly drawing more business, you'll also likely draw into more disruption to use on your opponent. There is also a synergy here with Tidespout Tyrant as drawing 7 cards, playing things like Lotus Petals & cheap converted mana cost spells can allow you to just bounce multiples of permanents back to your opponents hand, effectively locking them out of the game they're set so far back.

Deathrite Shaman: Well, just looking at results alone, since the inclusion of that card into the format, Reanimator has still been performing on a level enough to have success, even having many top 16/top 8 placings in the past few months. On top of that, Entomb is an instant, your deck is fast, & Deathrite Shaman needs a whole turn (Summoning Sickness) before it can even activate, on top of that, if they play it early enough, like their 1st turn, they might not even know you're on the Reanimate strategy & actually use it for mana the following turn, since many, many decks will do things like turn 1 Fetchland pass, or turn 1 Underground Sea Ponder. Deathrite Shaman is not a reason to put Reanimator on the shelf, & proof of that has been the decks continued performance since the printing of the card.

+Lotus Petal -Daze: Giving up Daze means you're losing some aspects of disruption to protect your setup, but in place of it, essentially, has been Lotus Petal as of recent, & if you're going to speed yourself up, then you don't need to rely as much on slowing the opponent down. Lotus Petal also gives you the possibility of turn 1 go off's, as well as using a Ponder turn 1, then turn 2 play a second land, play the Lotus Petal, Entomb or Careful Study, then cast a reanimation spell, whether it's 1 converted mana cost, or 2. On top of that, when you put a Griselbrand into play, any more Lotus Petal's you draw will allow you to cast more stuff from your hand right there -vs- waiting a whole turn to untap, giving your disruption in the form of things like Thoughtseize or further card draw like your cantrips, to dig deeper before you pass the turn at all, potentially taking sorcery speed removal out of your opponents hand, like Supreme Verdict or Liliana of the Veil as an example.

Show and Tell: Standard Sneak & Show / OmniTell decks have been abusing it for a while now, & since you are also cheating bombs into play, they will many times be in your hand, because most decks will never have an as relevant threat as you when a Show and Tell resolves, lists have already been running Show and Tell in the sideboard for the hate alone. Show and Tell also gives you an out when the creature just gets stuck in your hand & you just can't get to a Careful Study. Also with more recent trends, like Deathrite Shaman & Scavenging Ooze in the maindeck, it also helps deter against those strategies in main decks when you just Show and Tell your bomb into play from your hand.

History: Reanimator type strategies have been in legacy for a long time, back when it was called type 1.5 was no different. Entomb is a key card in reanimation strategies, however it was unavailable in the format when banned, until this happened back in September of 2009 for Legacy, & this is where it all begins for the Reanimator of today, the basic version of the deck surviving at it's core through the Bannings of Mystical Tutor, Debut & banning of Mental Misstep to today:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/56d effective date, October-1st-2009
Dream Halls is no longer banned
Entomb is no longer banned
Metalworker is no longer banned

2) Successful decklists & trends: from here http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/decklists/ & http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/formato.php?format=Legacy&page=1
2009:
7th place - Stefano Venturini - DragonsLeague Master of Geddon, Padova (133 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=2575&iddeck=28462)
9th place - Aaron Brodzinski - SCG St Louis (128 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=30589)

2010:
5th place - Ryan McKinney SCG Richmond (236 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31519)
4th place - Daniel Signorini SCG Richmond (236 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31520)
1st place - Andreas Muller GP Madrid (2,227 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31526)
13th place - Michael Trent SCG Indianapolis (286 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31855)
7th place - Jason Terry SCG Indianapolis (286 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31860)
7th place - John Cuvelier SCG Orlando (123 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=32001)
2nd place - Gerry Thompson SCG Atlanta (200 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=32455)
6th place - J.T. Henricks SCG Atlanta (200 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=32449)
8th place - Jesse Hatfield SCG Atlanta (200 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=32451)
12th place - Alix Hatfield SCG Atlanta (200 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=32442)
3rd place - Álex del Valle - MTG Barato Open (138 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=50&iddeck=355)
5th place - Luis Scott-Vargas SCG Seattle (191 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33309)
12th place - Greg Peloquin SCG Seattle (191 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33316)
July 1st Mystical Tutor banned
4th place - Marco Kesseler - Sommermercadiade 2010 (134 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=3389&iddeck=18991)
14th place - John Cuvelier SCG Boston (218 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=35545) welder
8th place - ACCART Jean-Mary - 1 rencontres Legacy Paris (236 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5384&iddeck=38956)

2011:
January 1st Survival of the Fittest is banned
11th place - Kyle Kloster SCG Indianapolis (267 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=36637)
May 13th Mental Misstep printed
2nd place - Oliver Salten - Bazaar of Moxen V (633 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6147&iddeck=44554)
2nd palce - Kyle Kloster SCG Indianapolis (334 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=38859)
6th place - Eli Kassis SCG Baltimore (318 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39295)
12th place - Christopher Walton SCG Cincinnati (228 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39692)
5th place - Gilles Maxime - Bac² Fête à la Pastèque - (148 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6662&iddeck=48265)
8th place - Charlet Benjamin - Bac² Fête à la Pastèque - (148 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6662&iddeck=48268)
3rd place - Eli Kassis SCG Pittsburgh (198 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39911)
15th place - Ben Sturtz SCG Pittsburgh (198 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39923)
6th place - Carlos Vasquez - Spanish Nationals Legacy Championiship (318 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6694&iddeck=48547)
14th place - Alex del Valle - Spanish Nationals Legacy Championiship (318 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6694&iddeck=48555)
3rd place - Rob Castellon SCG Boston (268 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6694&iddeck=48557"16th place - Aurelio Crespo - Spanish Nationals Legacy Championiship (318 players)][/URL]
October 1st Mental Misstep banned[/i]
3rd place - Carlos Santiago - Eternal Weekend 2011 Legacy (293 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6904&iddeck=50086)
1st place - Josh Weinundy SCG Indianapolis (290 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=41113)
4th place - Christopher Walton SCG Indianapolis (290 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=41108)
12th place - Dustin Penn SCG Indianapolis (290 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=41102)
5th place - Jack Hatton SCG Baltimore (238 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=41763)
9th place - Ryan McKinney SCG Baltimore (238 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=41764)
12th place - Justin Parnell SCG Baltimore (238 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=41771)
15th place - Romario Neto SCG Baltimore (238 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=41774)
3rd place - Tony Murata SCG Las Vegas (168 palyers) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=42135)
2nd place - Milton Figueroa SCG St Louis (277 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=42532)
9th place - Jim Kendrick SCG St Louis (277 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=42533)
1st place - Joaquin Solis - Frikigordo 2011 (156 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7402&iddeck=53859)

2012:
12th place - Phillip Lorren SCG Atlanta (191 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=43052)
16th place - Alex Delgado - 1º Torneo Lliga Catalana Legacy 2012 (119 payers) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7519&iddeck=55371)
3rd place - Antonio Fedon SCG Washington (234 palyers) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=43396)
12th place - Ryan McKinney SCG Washington (234 palyers) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=43405)
11th place - Daniel Gomez - 2º torneo Lliga Catalana Legacy 2012 (109 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7676&iddeck=56516)
2nd place - Yuri Danishevskiy - Russian National Legacy Championship (113 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7741&iddeck=56327)
1st place - Joaquin Solis - Big Legacy @ GP Madrid 2012 (234 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7875&iddeck=57345)
15th place - Milton Figueroa SCG Tampa (141 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=44347)
3rd place - Manuel Looz - D-Day V (227 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7894&iddeck=57488)
16th place - Jeremy Hollar SCG Dallas (174 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=44664) mono black
6th place - Joaquin Solis - Melendians 2 Legacy Open (101 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8039&iddeck=58599)
May 4th Griselbrand printed
2nd place - Joaquin Solis - Bazzar of Moxen VI - Big Legacy Trial (486 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8340&iddeck=60773)
16th place - Alex Del Valle Bazzar of Moxen VI (722 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8341&iddeck=60975)
16th place - Dustin Sendejas SCG Nashville (213 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46512)
15th place - Don Reed SCG Columbus (258 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46662)
1st place - Reid Duke SCG Worchester (213 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46816)
3rd place - Gerry Thompson SCG Invitational Indianapolis (235 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46969)
7th place - Max Tietze SCG Invitational Indianapolis (235 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=47007)
12th place - Sean Ryan SCG Seattle (187 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=47504)
9th place - Jeremy Blair GP Atlanta (905 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=47554)
10th place - Owen Turtenwald GP Atlanta (905 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=47555)
31st place - Conley Woods GP Atlanta (905 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8666&iddeck=63255)
12th place - Michael Wong SCG Las Vegas (223 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=48035)
13th place - Trevor Carr SCG Las Vegas (223 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=48050)
9th place - Colton Sandford SCG Buffalo (216 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=48246)
11th place - Alex Delgado - 8º Torneo Lliga Catalana Legacy, Castelldefels (111 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8886&iddeck=65355)
8th place - Grant Wilkinson SCG Denver (142 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=48934)
1st place - Artur Sanchez - 9º torneo Lliga Catalana Legacy - Barcelona (128 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9118&iddeck=66620)
1st place - Alex Del Valle - Ovino 7, Legacy (445 palyers) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9191&iddeck=67185)
3rd place - Milton Figueroa SCG Invitational Atlanta (311 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=49608)
October, Return to Ravnica
5th place - Drew Rosen SCG Providence (175 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=50048)
12th place - Alex Delgado - LCL 2012 Octubre (131 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9340&iddeck=69315)
11th place - Calvin Rarie SCG New Orleans (92 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=50395)
7th place - William Buehler SCG St Louis (162 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=50525)
14th place - Gus Landt SCG Dallas (175 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=50714)
11th place - Chase Hansen SCG Seattle (164 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=50937)

2013:
4th place - Hunter Stumper SCG Columbus (325 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=52088)
5th place - Aram Portella - LCL 2013 Enero (125 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9951&iddeck=72544)
6th place - Gus Landt SCG Dallas (212 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=52514)
1st place "Roon" - Legacy MOCS (174 players) (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/4965124#decklists)
18th place - Caleb Durward SCG Cincinnati (279 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=53136)
15th place - Todd Anderson SCG Indianapolis (326 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=53943)
3rd place - Devin Koepke SCG Kansas (190 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=54219)
12th place - Aram Portella - LCL 2013, Abril (110 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10747&iddeck=78488)
5th place - Kyle Hersey SCG Seattle (261 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=55303)
8th place - Rafael Parra - LCL 2013 - Mayo (108 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10928&iddeck=79827)
16th place - Chris Wood SCG Nashville (201 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=55968)
11th place - Seth Zulinski SCG Baltimore (298 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=56340)
2nd place - Seth Zulinski SCG Philadelphia (220 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=56757)
15th place - Gil Medeiros SCG Philadelphia (220 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=56766)
3rd place - Dustin Penn SCG Minneapolis (302 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=58118)
15th place - Daniel Hutchinson SCG Baltimore (285 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=58711)
2nd place - Shawn Tappen SCG Philadelphia (280 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=58912)
11th place - Josh Rhoades SCG Philadelphia (280 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=58926)
2nd place - Robert Cucunato SCG Cleveland (234 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=59738)
3rd place - Christopher Walton SCG Cleveland (234 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=59724)
14th place - Andrew Hurst SCG Cleveland (234 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=59752)
3rd place - Joseph Alane SCG Milwaukee (250 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=59862)
12th place - Robert Champeny SCG Milwaukee (250 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=59869)
13th place - Chase Hanson SCG Seattle (253 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=60006)
4th place - Robert Cucunato SCG Indianapolis (388 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=60242)
8-0 Legacy portion - Mike Hawthorne SCG Invitational Indianapolis (331 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=60144)
9th place - Andrew Smith SCG Dallas (251 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=60562)
15th place - James Higginbottom SCG Providence (268 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=60996)

2014:
11th place - Jon Naskrent SCG Indianapolis (256 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=62387)
13th place - Matthew Ucci SCG Indianapolis (256 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=62392)
2nd place - Thomas Hake SCG Orlando (239 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=62549)
1st place - Thomas Graves SCG Columbus (342 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=62696)
6th place - Chris VanMeter SCG Baltimore (402 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=62794)
1st place - Carlos Bassetti - TeTe Open (113 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12855&iddeck=94265)
3rd place - Loic Le Briand Grand Prix Paris (1,587 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12902&iddeck=94658)
12th place - Jon Naskrent SCG St Louis (390 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=63847)
15th place - Thomas Graves SCG St Louis (390 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=63835)
10th place - Jesse Inman SCG Atlanta (316 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=64118)
15th place - Dominic Casali SCG Atlanta (316 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=64127)
16th place - Marc Skerritt SCG Atlanta (316 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=64128)
4th place - Rafael Parra - LCL 2014 February (137 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12987&iddeck=95304)
2nd place - Nick Patnode - Bazaar of Moxen Qualifier, PA (173 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13014&iddeck=95500)
3rd place - Sergio Cobos - Arcanis 20k (203 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13552&iddeck=99564)
3rd place - Robert Cucunato SCG Cincinnati (300 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=66924)
16th place - Hank Zhong SCG Jersey (426 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=67742)
13th place - Nick Wilbur SCG Worcester (290 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=69802)
12th place - Fred Edelkamp SCG Baltimore (372 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=70343)
9th place - Zack Wilson SCG Atlanta (263 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=72872)
10th place - Jesse Inman SCG Atlanta (263 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=72884)
13th place - Trow Lowry SCG Atlanta (263 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=72871)
2nd place - Jake Muldowsky SCG New Jersey (259 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=73438)
6th place - Robert Cucunato SCG Indianapolis (260 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=73444)
October 1st Treasure Cruise printed
5th place - Jannik Rønn - Danish Legacy Masters II (118 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14900&iddeck=110390)
10th place - Will Setzer SCG Worcester (225 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=74785)
12th place - Will Holland SCG Worcester (225 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=74787)
15th place - Nick Wilbur SCG Worcester (225 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=74772)
5th place - Jannik Rønn - Danish Legacy Masters II (118 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14900&iddeck=110390)
7th place - Craig Spitzer SCG Minneapolis (247 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=75176)
2nd place - Irie Shun - Eternal Festival Tokyo (330 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15185&iddeck=112684)
3rd place - Jesse Inman SCG Atlanta (240 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=76803)
9th place - Christopher Morris-Lent SCG Portland (228 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=77181)
7th place - Joe Lossett SCG Players Championship (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=77670)
9th place - Kent Ketter SCG Players Championship (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=77682)
10th place - Chris VanMeter SCG Players Championship (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=77660)
3rd place - Xavier Labeye - Belgian Legacy Cup Finals (102 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15726&iddeck=117059)
1st place - Florian Klotz - JK Legacy Cup (153 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15771&iddeck=117444)

2015:
January 23rd Treasure Cruise banned
32nd place - Joe Lossett SCG Indianapolis (582 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=79399)
36th place - Joseph Alane SCG Indianapolis (582 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=79344)
42nd place - Lee Prost SCG Indianapolis (582 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=79360)
4th place - Noah Cohen SCG Dallas (190 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=81098)
6th place - Aaron Segrest SCG Dallas (190 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=81097)
14th place - Kevin Roche, Eternal Extravaganza (317 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16397&iddeck=122622)
1st place - Nick Patnode SCG Richmond (222 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=81968)
5th place - Borja Ceberio - V Edición Arcanis Deluxe (217 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16468&iddeck=123114)
7th place - Irie Shun - God Series 3 (211 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16587&iddeck=124167)
12th place - Shane Downey SCG Portland (107 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=84363)
3rd place - Austin Palmer SCG Portland (151 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=84950)
20th place - David Yarbrough SCG Chicago (171 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=87970)
6th place - Jake Moldowsky SCG Washington DC (528 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=89125)
2nd place - Per Clasen - Danish Legacy Masters (99 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18620&iddeck=141096)
3rd place - Lars Krieger - Danish Legacy Masters (99 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18620&iddeck=141097)
11th place - James Higginbottom SCG Philadelphia (120 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=94854)
15th place - Peter Luo SCG Philadelphia (120 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=94863)
4th place - Chase Hansen - GP SeaTac (2014 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18767&iddeck=142327)
15th place - Andrew Cotter SCG Kansas City (75 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=95319)
15th place - Jordan Kasten-Krause SCG Jersey (523 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=95706)
7th place - Ono Jun - GP Kobe side event KMC (108 players) (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18928&iddeck=143673)

3) Card choices: Please note, these are primarily from more recent Reanimator trends, examples:
Feb-2013, Roon, Legacy MOCS [url]http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/4965124#decklists
March-2013, Todd Anderson, SCG Indianapolis http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=53943 & since then.

3a) Maindeck:
Creatures:
Griselbrand (4) This is the one creature in the deck that you'll see more than 1 copy of because it's just that powerful, often times you'll be going for Griselbrand over other targets because of the card draw alone, it's a "Yawgmoth's Bargain" -the draw step drawback, but has legs, a kill condition, a lifelinker, all at the "Drawback" of having to pay 7 life at a time instead of 1 at a time, which means little if you can pay the 7 life once, that's all it takes, also a 7/7, lifelinking flyer.
Iona, Shield of Emeria (1) The other 1 of you will see in most Reanimator lists, against many decks, resolving this and naming their main color will literally lock them out of the game, especially when some decks in Legacy are still mono color decks, also a 7/7 flyer.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (1) One of the most common 1 of's, this card is great against Legacy because so many decks have creatures, it's mass removal & a kill condition in one, & it keeps that -2/-2 on the opponent until they answer it, making it on some levels, even more devastating than just 1 time removal spells, also a 4/7 that doesn't tap to attack.
Tidespout Tyrant (1) Depending on what you're up against, this thing can lock the game out for your opponent when you keep bouncing all their stuff back to their hand, whether it's to bounce away problematic permanents or even bouncing their lands back to their hand, also a 5/5 flying body.
To the graveyard:
Careful Study (4) As an enabler to get creatures to your graveyard, & to draw cards, this card is key in the deck, since you draw cards every turn, & can even start off with a creature in your hand from the opening 7.
Entomb (4) Instant speed enabler that allows you to put any creature from your entire deck right into the graveyard, picking the best one for your given match up when you know what the opponent is on.
Into play:
Reanimate (4) Reanimate at the cost of life.
Exhume (3) Reanimate while sometimes giving your opponent a "freebie" reanimate of their own, however you're almost always going to get the better deal.
Animate Dead (2) Reanimate that gives your creature -1/-0, & sits on it making it vulnerable to Enchantment hate, because of this it's usually the least ran of the 3.
Show and Tell (2) The other way you can cheat a "bomb" into play is with this card, though it's "drawback" lets the opponent do it too, the majority of the time what you put down will be more effective than what they put down.
Draw:
Ponder (4) Draw 3, pick the best of, or shuffle it away and draw from a new topdeck.
Brainstorm (4) Legacy Staple. Draw 3, put the 2 worst back, from your entire hand, then shuffle away with a shuffle effect, like a Polluted Delta fetchland.
Protection/Disruption:
Force of Will (4) Legacy Staple, disruption against aggressive strategies, & protection for your own, works when trying to get a creature into play from the graveyard as back up, as well as helping prevent removal by countering things like Swords to Plowshares.
Thoughtseize (2) Direct disruption, you get to see their hand, pick the most problematic, non land card, & then it goes away, if they burn a counterspell on it, then that's a counterspell they're not using against your Reanimating and it did it's job. You can even target yourself to discard a creature.
Mana:
Lotus Petal (4) The potential to combo off from turn 1, giving more explosiveness, as well as having synergy with Griselbrand in that, you may draw more, & be able to cast more spells before passing the turn, access to more protection/disruption.
(Whatever combination of lands you push for, you'll want a focus on Blue/Black, the minimum average lands is 16.)
Swamp (1) Basic
Island (2) Basic
Underground Sea (4) Dual
~Fetchlands:
Polluted Delta (4) Island/Swamp
(3) more Island fetchlands Flooded Strand, Misty Rainforest, or Scalding Tarn
(2) more Swamp fetchlands Marsh Flats, Verdant Catacombs, or Bloodstained Mire

Other cards to note:
Daze More recent trends have gone away from Daze, & are "essentially" running Lotus Petal in it's place, trading for a slightly more aggressive push with Reanimator.
Hapless Researcher non traditional This card has been seen in some lists, however even when it is ran, it's usually a 1-2 of. Also against one-shot graveyard removal with Exhume on the stack.
Inquisition of Kozilek1 non traditional Only hits stuff of converted mana cost of 3 or lower, doesn't nab opposing Force of Will.
Misdirection non traditional Force of will is usually enough.
Flusterstorm non traditional If ran, it's usually in the sideboard.
Buried Alive non traditional You might think this fit's into this deck, but it's not traditionally ran at all, because you can do everything you need with Entomb & Careful study alone, & they only cost 1 to cast, where Buried Alive costs 3, as well you really only need 1 creature to reanimate under the majority of circumstances to get there.

Other "1 of" Reanimation targets to note: (Between the raw card drawing power of Griselbrand alone (against any deck), as well as it's lifelink (like against aggro), Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite's effectiveness against creature based strategies, (like against aggro), Iona, Shield of Emeria's ability to stall out the opponent & cut them off of a whole color (like against control or combo), & Tidespout Tyrants ability to answer problematic permanents against any strategy, many of the remaining creatures are inferior to these 4, & have either been trending out, or were only seen in fewer lists to begin with since the printing of Griselbrand
Grave Titan A non legendary creature that gives you multiple threats. Non Legendary helps against Karakas decks.
Sphinx of the Steel Wind Less common since Griselbrand, since a 7/7 lifelinker is usually enough.
Angel of Despair Less common if you're running Tidespout Tyrant because it "essentially" does the same thing, however Tyrant is more abuseable, at a minimum, you can even bounce their lands back to their hand.
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur Less common now with Griselbrand in the deck.
Blazing Archon Less common with Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, since -2/-2 is enough to devastate most creature based strategies, while Blazing Archon doesn't actually deal with their threats, it just puts them on "pause".
Empyrial Archangel Less common, Iona, Shield of Emeria can prevent targeting from a color, & Griselbrand has lifelink if you're getting low.
Inkwell Leviathan non traditional. Empyrial Archangel is a more popular "shroud" creature between the 2.
Terastodon non traditional. Usually in sideboard if ran at all.

3b) Sideboard:
Creatures:
~Blazing Archon (1) Very good against Show and Tell strategies because of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, usually in the sideboard over the maindeck when ran.
~Angel of Despair If you don't have Tidespout Tyrant, then you should at a minimum have Angel of Despair in your 75 somewhere.

Artifacts:
~Pithing Needle (3) mostly for opposing hate, examples: Deathrite Shaman Tormod]s Crypt Relic of Progenitus Faerie Macabre Scavenging Ooze. As a bonus, it can also help against some combo decks like Helm of Obedience + Rest in Peace, Planeswalkers like Liliana of the Veil, or even against Sensei's Divining Top when paired with Counterbalance.
~Engineered Explosives Less common in sideboards.

Lands:
~Karakas Mostly for opposing Show and Tell/Sneak Attack strategies when ran. Came into the general spotlight when CFB included 2 maindeck copies of it to fight opposing Karakas(es).
~City of Traitors Less common in sideboards. Sometimes to support a heavier Show and Tell emphasis after sideboarding. Also allows more flexibility against Spell Pierce and Daze.

Instants:
~Echoing Truth (1-2) Bounce that can hit multiple targets, like Leyline of the Void's in play
~Flusterstorm (2) Disruption to the opponent & protection for yourself, also harder to "answer" as it has storm & creates copies, making it harder for traditional counterspell strategies to work against it.
~Spell Pierce A weaker Flusterstorm, but can also be used against Artifacts/Enchantments/Planeswalkers.
~Chain of Vapor Cheap, 1 converted mana cost bounce, though usually Echoing Truth.
~Wipe Away Less common in sideboards. Usually Echoing Truth.
~Repeal Less common in sideboards. Usually Echoing Truth.
~Submerge Less common in sideboards. Usually Echoing Truth.
~Mindbreak Trap Less common in sideboards. Since you usually have enough disruption against fast combo decks with Thoughtseize & Force of Will.
~Hurkyl's Recall Less common in sideboards.

Sorceries:
~Show and Tell (2) When they bring in the graveyard hate, it will mean little if you drop the "bomb" from your hand directly.
~Thoughtseize (2) After your maindeck, the rest are in the sideboard, giving you more for games 2-3 against opposing strategies that have disruption for your gameplan, whether it's opposing discard, counterspells, or their sideboard in graveyard hate that they keep in hand to use (Surgical Extraction, Extirpate, Faerie Macabre)
~Perish Destroy all green creatures, less commonly in sideboards.
~Massacre -2/-2 basically for "free" less commonly in sideboards.
~Duress Less common in sideboards. since Thoughtseize can hit creatures that may become problematic.
~Wipe Away Less common in sideboards. Usually Echoing Truth.

Graveyard hate: (If your meta requires you to have some graveyard hate, these have been the more popular cards seen in sideboards.)
~Coffin Purge Graveyard hate with flashback, you can even Entomb it to the graveyard to use it if circumstances compel you to do so.
~Faerie Macabre "free" to play, "essentially" uncounterable, but only hits 2 cards when used.
~Tormod's Crypt 0 cast mass graveyard removal.
~Nihil Spellbomb Mass graveyard removal that cantrips.
~Surgical Extraction Hits all copies in deck, & "free" to cast (-2 life when doing so)

4) Price guide of more known Reanimator cards: As of March 2013 (For the most current prices, click on the link of each card) High-Mid-Low according to http://magiccards.info/ & http://magic.tcgplayer.com/all_magic_sets.asp
$50.00+ average:
Underground Sea (http://magiccards.info/rv/en/305.html) $199.98 $140.04 $126.40
Polluted Delta (http://magiccards.info/query?q=polluted+delta&v=card&s=cname) $89.98 $80.81 $71.99
Force of Will (http://magiccards.info/query?q=force+of+will&v=card&s=cname) $91.94 $66.94 $58.49
Thoughtseize (http://magiccards.info/query?q=thoughtseize&v=card&s=cname) $74.99 $64.15 $58.49
Show and Tell (http://magiccards.info/us/en/96.html) $69.98 $60.91 $54.99

$20.00 to $50.00:
Entomb (http://magiccards.info/od/en/132.html) $30.20 $23.83 $20.25

$10.00 to $20.00:
Iona, Shield of Emeria (http://magiccards.info/query?q=iona%2C+shield&v=card&s=cname) $20.00 $17.41 $14.19
Griselbrand (http://magiccards.info/avr/en/106.html) $20.00 $15.10 $9.30
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (http://magiccards.info/nph/en/9.html) $12.99 $10.66 $8.95
Flusterstorm (http://magiccards.info/query?q=flusterstorm&v=card&s=cname) $17.99 $13.22 $10.99

$5.00 to $10.00:
Reanimate (http://magiccards.info/tp/en/45.html) $13.84 $4.95 $3.50

$2.00 to $5.00:
Angel of Despair (http://magiccards.info/cmd/en/180.html) $5.49 $4.19 $3.47
Tidespout Tyrant (http://magiccards.info/query?q=tidespout&v=card&s=cname) $5.98 $2.63 $0.83
Daze (http://magiccards.info/ne/en/30.html) $4.10 $2.71 $1.98
Blazing Archon (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/4.html) $4.11 $2.07 $1.45
Lotus Petal (http://magiccards.info/tp/en/284.html) $4.49 $3.28 $2.46

$1.00 to $2.00:
Careful Study (http://magiccards.info/query?q=careful+study&v=card&s=cname) $2.98 $1.47 $1.00
Animate Dead (http://magiccards.info/rv/en/1.html) $2.58 $1.43 $0.72
Brainstorm (http://magiccards.info/ia/en/61.html) $3.30 $1.58 $0.99

$1.00 or less average:
Echoing Truth (http://magiccards.info/query?q=echoing+truth&v=card&s=cname) $1.48 $0.91 $0.75
Pithing Needle (http://magiccards.info/query?q=pithing+needle&v=card&s=cname) $2.05 $0.82 $0.48
Exhume (http://magiccards.info/us/en/134.html) $2.40 $1.03 $0.07
Ponder (http://magiccards.info/query?q=ponder&v=card&s=cname) $2.00 $0.95 $0.49

[feline]

5) Awesome Links: In relation to Reanimator & Legacy
Price trends of Singles:
http://www.mtgprice.com/sets/Premium_Deck_Series_Graveborn/Reanimate

Reanimator articles/reports/etc:
2014:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/finals_adam_fronsee_vs_thomas_.html Reanimator in the Finals, SCG Columbus (Thomas Graves)

2013:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/finals_reid_duke_vs_shawn_tapp.html Reanimator in the Finals, SCG Philadelphia (Shawn Tappen)
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/finals_seth_zulinski_vs_jack_w.html Reanimator in the Finals, SCG Philadelphia (Seth Zulinski)
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25550_Reanimating-Griselbrand-For-Fun-And-Profit.html Article, Reanimating Griselbrand (Todd Anderson)

2012:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/24283_SCG_Legacy_Open_Worcester_1st_With_Reanimator.html Tournament report, SCG Worchester 1st place (Reid Duke)
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/finals_reid_duke_vs_matt_costa.html Reanimator in the Finals, SCG Worchester (Reid Duke)
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_reanimator_with_gerr.html Deck Tech, SCG Invitational Indianapolis top 8 (Gerry Thompson)

2011:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/finals_milton_figueroa_vs_andr.html Reanimator in the Finals, SCG St Louis (Milton Figueroa)
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/finals_marsh_usary_vs_josh_wei.html Reanimator in the Finals, SCG Indianapolis (Josh Weinandy)
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/22045_Finals_Kyle_Kloster_vs_Thomas_Graves.html Reanimator in the Finals, SCG Indianapolis (Kyle Kloster)
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/21933_Deck_Tech_Reanimator_with_Sam_Stoddard.html Deck Tech, SCG Louisville (Sam Stoddard)
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/21746_New-Phyrexia-And-An-Old-Favorite-In-Legacy.html Article after New Phyrexia (Reid Duke)

2010:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/19275_Finals_Gerry_Thompson_vs_David_Mayer.html Reanimator in the finals, SCG Atlanta (Gerry Thompson)
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpmad10/welcome#24 Reanimator in the finals, GP Madrid (Andreas Muller)

Reanimator decklist sources:
Starcitygames.com Reanimate decklists (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?t%5BT2%5D=3&event_ID=&feedin=&start_date=2008-01-06&end_date=2013-03-24&city=&state=&country=&start=1&finish=16&exp=&p_first=&p_last=&simple_card_name%5B1%5D=entomb&simple_card_name%5B2%5D=reanimate&simple_card_name%5B3%5D=&simple_card_name%5B4%5D=&simple_card_name%5B5%5D=&w_perc=0&g_perc=0&r_perc=0&b_perc=0&u_perc=0&a_perc=0&comparison%5B1%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B1%5D=1&card_name%5B1%5D=&comparison%5B2%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B2%5D=1&card_name%5B2%5D=&comparison%5B3%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B3%5D=1&card_name%5B3%5D=&comparison%5B4%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B4%5D=1&card_name%5B4%5D=&comparison%5B5%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B5%5D=1&card_name%5B5%5D=&sb_comparison%5B1%5D=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty%5B1%5D=1&sb_card_name%5B1%5D=&sb_comparison%5B2%5D=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty%5B2%5D=1&sb_card_name%5B2%5D=&card_not%5B1%5D=&card_not%5B2%5D=&card_not%5B3%5D=&card_not%5B4%5D=&card_not%5B5%5D=&order_1=date+desc&order_2=&limit=100&action=Show+Decks&p=1)
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tipo.php?archetype=Reanimator&format=Legacy

Legacy metagame:
http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/decklists/
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/formato.php?format=Legacy&page=1
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24023-40-Tier-Legacy-Decks-Lists-Singles-Prices-etc-To-be-updated-regularly(started-2012)

6) 20 match ups: (Based mostly on decks that have performed with some level of consistent, higher placings since Return to Ravnica Legacy)

00) Post sideboard 1 key thing to remember, any deck no matter their color, has access to graveyard hate because of the following cards in the format, some are more common than others:
Tormod's Crypt more common 0 cast, mass graveyard removal.
Surgical Extraction more common Removes all copies from deck/hand, "free" with -2 life.
Relic of Progenitus Cantrips, mass graveyard removal.
Grafdigger's Cage Doesn't actually remove the graveyard.
Leyline of the Void Starts in play.
Faerie Macabre Less common "Uncounterable" but only hits 2 cards.
Nihil Spellbomb Less common has *swamp* in activation to draw a card.

01) RUG (Disruption, Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard They are a tempo based aggro strategy, their goal will be to kill you with their creatures, backed up by burn & disruption in the form of Daze, Spell Pierce, Force of Will & Stifle (Fetchlands). Unless you have the nuts & go off from the opening hand, you'll have to play around their annoying taxing counterspells. Trying to always have 1 open for Daze at a minimum when casting key spells, which shouldn't be too difficult since so much of your deck is 1 to cast save for a handful of spells, their clock isn't as fast as yours, so you have a couple turns you can use to get more lands into play & draw more cards. When you Entomb, most of the time you will be going for Griselbrand since they can't properly answer it with their burn, & the lifelink will turn the game around in your favor.
Post sideboard -Reanimate since you're against an aggro deck for +Show and Tell from the sideboard, as they will never benefit from it the way you do. The most likely graveyard hate cards they'll be running will be Tormod's Crypt or possibly Surgical Extraction, likely cutting their burn for it. If they are worried about a Show and Tell setup, they may even add Red Elemental Blast & cut their burn to almost nothing for it.

02) Stoneblade (Disruption, Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard They are a more control type deck, their goal will be to disrupt enough of your game plan to stop you in the form of counterspells in Force of Will, Spell Pierce & discard in Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, as well as Swords to Plowshares, they may also have access to 1 of's like Vindicate & Supreme Verdict depending on their list. To kill you, they'll be swinging at you with creatures like a slower aggro deck, or in more rare cases, Jace, the Mind Sculptor ultimate your deck away. So their clock isn't fast, & if they prevent you from going off with their disruption, you'll have some time to recover. When you Entomb, they are not the most aggressive strategy, so Griselbrand will almost always net you 7 cards when it comes into play, even if they have removal like Swords to Plowshares for it, the fact that you're drawing 7 more cards is a well worthy trade. Once you get a creature to stick however & start swinging, the game is yours.
Post sideboard +Show and Tell & discard, taking out some of your graveyard abusing focus. Careful Study since it technically doesn't replace itself & you're going up against a deck where card advantage can come into play. The most likely graveyard hate cards they'll be running will be Surgical Extraction, & they may also increase some discard or counterspells to the maindeck, like Inquisition of Kozilek or Spell Pierce from their sideboard, taking out slower things from their deck like lowering the number of Stoneforge Mystic & cutting Engineered Explosives if they are running any.

03) UW control Variants (Disruption, Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard The control deck to beat of Legacy as of March 2013, their goal will be to control the board state with their disruption & removal, then finish you off with either Entreat the Angels at the end of your turn with miracle, or Helm of Obedience + Rest in Peace if they are running the combo. The key thing to note here, is the versions running Rest in Peace because in play it severely impacts your from the graveyard plan, by keeping the graveyard empty. Their disruption to your gameplan will be Swords to Plowshares, Terminus, Force of Will, Spell Pierce & possibly Counterbalance + Sensei's Divining Top setup. They usually rely a little more on creature removal so their counterspells are not heavy, however that also means resolving a Reanimate might mean they're just going to Brainstorm a Terminus to the top of their deck. Use your disruption/protection to attempt to Reanimate while stopping their opposing counters & Rest in Peace if they have it. When you Entomb, Griselbrand will at a minimum draw you 7 cards when it hits the field, regardless of their removal or not. If Griselbrand is in play, getting an Iona, Shield of Emeria naming white can seal the game as they are locked out of everything for an answer except a Jace, the Mind Sculptor bounce.
Post sideboard +Show and Tell & discard, while they will possibly either be running Rest in Peace already, or bring it in from their sideboard. They also have access to Red Elemental Blast so if they put you on a heavy Show and Tell emphasis, they may try to "next level" you and bring those in as well, cutting some of their slower stuff like Stoneforge Mystic or more useless stuff like Engineered Explosives from their maindeck.

04) BUG aggro (Disruption, Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard They are an aggro deck backed up by disruption in the form of discard, counterspells, & some removal. After their creatures, the key cards they will have against you are Deathrite Shaman as potential graveyard hate, Daze & Force of Will for counterspells, & discard in Hymn to Tourach, & possibly Thoughtseize. As far as Deathrite Shaman goes, if it comes down, you can play around it if they don't know what you're playing, as many decks in the format are Blue/Black, & only key reanimator spells will give that away, also Deathrite Shaman can't actually do anything while it has summoning sickness.. As far as their disruption goes, Hymn to Tourach can actually give you a "freebie" creature to the graveyard randomly, while Daze can be played around by keeping a land untapped, thier clock isn't fast, they will use Delver of Secrets, Tarmogoyf & maybe even Tombstalker, in which the Delve requires some cards to their own graveyard to make it come out faster. If they are more Mid-Range BUG like Shardless-BUG, then they are a bit slower than the fastest aggro versions so you have a little more time, while they run more card advantage in things like Ancestral Vision for Shardless Agent tricks & Dark Confidant as a way to draw more cards. Use your own disruption against their own when trying to combo off, when you Entomb go for Griselbrand since they can almost never answer it, & the lifelink will help alot being against an aggro match up. If it's BUG Midrange, sometimes they run Liliana of the Veil, but that's usually in more Control BUG setups.
Post sideboard +Pithing Needle (Deathrite Shaman, Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus if they bring in that as well), Show and Tell, Thoughtseize in place of some Reanimate because of the life loss & being against aggro, & possibly letting Iona, Shield of Emeria to the sideboard since they will likely have no mass removal, or spot removal that can get rid of Griselbrand anyway. This is a deck that has the potential to be sideboarding Extirpate, though aside from that, it's common to see Surgical Extraction or one of the artifact graveyard removal's.

05) BUG control (Disruption, Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard The more control side of BUG decks, this is where you'll find even more disruption, as well as the planeswalkers of BUG in Jace, the Mind Sculptor & Liliana of the Veil. Their disruption will be Force of Will, Vendilion Clique, Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach & probably Deathrite Shaman as it is even in BUG control lists, though remember Deathrite Shaman can't actually do anything while it has summoning sickness. Since they have more disruption than BUG aggro, the may slow you down a little more, however, their clock is slower as well, so you will have more time. Because of their discard however which is only sorcery speed, try to go off earlier, getting a Griselbrand into play since their only answer to it will be either a Jace bounce, or a Liliana sacrifice, & even if they play that in the following turn, you still get to pay 7 life, draw 7 cards, and amass card advantage against them.
Post sideboard +Pithing Needle for both Deathrite Shaman, & even the planeswalkers like Liliana's sacrifice to your single creature, & if they bring down a Tormod's Crypt you can even use it against that. Also Show and Tell to adjust for the hate accordingly. Since it may come down to card advantage as they run more control elements, you can likely let Careful Study go in place of your sideboard cards. As with BUG aggro, BUG Control is another deck that just might be running Extirpate, aside from that, it's more expected to see Surgical Extraction or one of the artifact graveyard removal's.

06) Jund (Disruption, Moderate playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard They are a midrange deck with aggressive creatures, disruption from Swamp mana, & some burn. Their relevant disruption will be in the form of Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach & Deathrite Shaman, though comes down with summoning sickness, possibly a 1 or 2 of Maelstrom Pulse. Basically it means, their discard is going to affect you the most out of everything, & possibly Deathrite Shaman if you are too slow. Just go off as early as you can against them, Griselbrand is great for it's lifelink since they are an aggro deck, & aside from Liliana of the Veil, they can not answer it. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is also nice here since it kills Dark Confidant, Bloodbraid elf, Deathrite Shaman, everything really but Tarmogoyf. This should be one of the easier match up's to go against being a fast combo type deck, as all they really have to directly stop you is Thoughtseize.
Post sideboard +Pithing Needle for both Deathrite Shaman, as well as a use against Liliana of the Veil & if they bring down a Tormod's Crypt you can even use it against that. Show and Tell as well to help have more ways to cheat a creature into play around the graveyard hate. This is another deck that has the potential to be running Extirpate, however, the more common sideboard cards are Surgical Extraction or one of the artifact graveyard removals.

07) Dredge (Combo, Disruption, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard This should be a fun match. Their main stuff to watch out for is Cabal Therapy in the graveyard, dredging fast enough, they have the "potential" to get some in the graveyard, as well as some Bridge from Belows & Narcomeba or Ichorid into play, then use them to start stripping your hand apart with flashback Cabal Therapy while making 2/2 zombies. This however, is the most aggressive they can get against you, & luckily, you are a bit faster than they are, especially running Lotus Petal, on top of being able to use your own disruption to slow their dredge enablers down a turn (Faithless Looting Breakthrough Careful Study) Against this deck, Entomb to Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is THEE card to get, it pretty much locks them out of the game as they can't do anything if their creatures don't even make the battlefield, -2/-2 at all times means they will never be able to reanimate a Golgari-Grave Troll. As far as Manaless Dredge, that deck is even slower, so you'll have more time to get out your "bomb" and take the game away.
Post sideboard +Show and Tell in place of Exhume, since you don't want to give them a free, huge Golgari-Grave Troll, & possibly Echoing Truth, since they will likely bring in Leyline of the Void, & you at a minimum can bounce all copies of their 2/2 Zombies away as a default. Whatever their graveyard hate strategy, you will still be faster than them, & all it really takes is getting an Elesh Norn into play to assure victory.

08) Maverick (Light playtesting required)
Pre sideboard They are an aggro deck with a focus on hatebears, against you, their hope will be Thalia, Guardian of Thraben & Scavenging Ooze, or Karakas fetched by Knight of the Reliquary as well as Swords to Plowshares, however, you are faster than their creatures can handle, and even if you have to pay 1 additional mana for cheating a bomb into play, you're still cheating a bomb into play. Swords to Plowshares is really their only answer, & even then it doesn't stop you from drawing 7 cards off of Griselbrand which means amassing card advantage, discarding more Reanimate targets & then doing it again, an Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite can also really mess them up killing nearly all of their creatures. This is one of the easier match up's you can go against & you should have little problems.
Post sideboard +Show and Tell for you, while +Graveyard hate 1, 2, 3, 4, or whatever for them, whatever they're deciding to run as their hate, from Surgical Extraction to Tormod's Crypt to whatever they've decided as their graveyard hate, as well they may also bring in 1 Bojuka Bog as a Knight of the Reliquary target, though you can easily cheat a bomb into play before that happens.

09) Ad Nauseam Storm decks (Combo, Disruption, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard The biggest thing about this match up, is going to come down to who combo's first, both sides have the potential to go off before the other, but both sides also have disruption, ANT runs a little more discard, while TES is more likely to have Silence effects. If you Entomb - Reanimate - Iona, Shield of Emeria naming black, they can't cast Ad Nauseam, Tendrils of Agony, Infernal Tutor or any of their Swamp producing ritual effects, & technically their discard but at that point it becomes significantly less relevant. If they go off early enough that they don't put you on Reanimator, & they go with Empty the Warrens because they can't do a lethal Tendrils of Agony, you can then go full throttle for an Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite to steal the gamestate form them.
Post sideboard +Thoughtseize & Flusterstorm, -slower stuff, like Show and Tell & Tidespout Tyrant. They will likely remain mostly unchanged, their sideboard is half wish targets, and they don't usually have much for graveyard hate. The goal games 2-3 will be similar to game 1, whoever goes off 1st will most likely get the win.

10) High Tide (Combo, Disruption, Light playtesting recommended, a less common match up)
Pre sideboard Unlike the previous noted combo deck however, this one isn't so much a race as you can easily go off before them, they will never go off before turn 3, however being mono blue, they also have access to lots of counterspells. They can Force of Will & Flusterstorm, on top of also Merchant Scrolling into more counterspells if they feel necessary. Both sides have disruption, however you are a faster combo deck than they are, so use your discard to ditch their counters, then combo off with your own counterspell back up. When you Entomb get Iona, Shield of Emeria, if it makes play naming blue, you've won the game. They also have access to Cunning Wish into Surgical Extraction, but not till their turn 3 or later. If for some reason it actually gets to the point where they start to combo, counter High Tide, if they resolve Time Spiral & continue to combo at that point without fizzling, especially if they Blue Sun's Zenith themselves for 10+ cards, you're free to concede to save yourself the 5 minutes of boredom. Overall this is one of the less difficult match up's you can go against, as you're just a faster combo deck than they are.
Post sideboard +Thoughtseize & Flusterstorm, -Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite & Careful Study since it's card disadvantage, not replacing itself against a counterspell deck. They will have a heavy Wish dedicated sideboard & may even sideboard nothing at all, though sometimes there is 2-3 graveyard hate spells that come in depending on the list, if so, it's usually Tormod's Crypt / Grafdigger's Cage.

11) UR Delver (Disruption, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard They are an aggro deck with a focus on burn spells & counterspells, Price of Progress included, as well as their disruption in the form of Force of Will Spell Pierce & possibly Daze. Just combo off early if you can, while getting Griselbrand as an Entomb target since they can not answer a 7/7 properly with burn, as well as it's lifelink that will set their aggressive plan backwards as soon as the first +7 life from combat you gain. If they have out alot of creatures, all of them have toughness of 2 or less so if you're getting overwhelmed, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite can also be a target since it will literally lock them out of the game aside from their burn spells, but for the most part you'll be getting Griselbrand. Since they may be running Daze you can also keep a land open when casting more vital spells to make opposing Daze useless.
Post sideboard +Show and Tell -Reanimate since they are an aggro deck with an access to burn on top, while they'll never drop anything scarier than a Snapcaster Mage from Show and Tell. For them their likely graveyard hate will be Surgical Extraction or possibly one of the graveyard hate artifact's, also depending on their list, they may possibly bring in more disruption via counters in the form of Flusterstorm, so you may want to bring in your Thoughtseize as well.

12) Show and Tell variants (Combo, Disruption, Moderate playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard They are a combo deck with similar plans to your own, "cheat" a bomb into play, then use it to kill the opponent, you. They will be backed up by disruption that is Force of Will Spell Pierce & Daze. Depending on the version they are running, the main difference will be, Omnitell runs Burning Wish & Omniscience while the more common version will be running Sneak Attack. So your key cards to stop will always be Show and tell & either Sneak attack, or Burning wish with your own disruption. If they resolve a Show and Tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is the worst to come down, but because it can also be Griselbrand you may want to drop your own Griselbrand, because you can just Reanimate yours afterward. Another thing to note is Tidespout Tyrant, it can bounce any of their bombs back to their hand, including Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, which can fight back against an Emrakul that comes into play & you only have 1 turn to answer it. In the end, you should be a little faster than they are since your key spells cost 1 & 2, while theirs cost a minimum 3, giving you an edge based on that alone.
Post sideboard +Thoughtseize & Karakas in place of Show and Tell. If you have Blazing Archon in your list of 75, make sure it's in the maindeck post sideboard. Show and Tell decks are less known for running Leyline's in their sideboard as compared to before, but they could still be running Leyline of the Void, after that it's more likely one of the artifact based graveyard hate like Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus or Grafdigger's Cage.

13) Belcher (Combo, Light playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard It's the turn 1 combo deck of the format, glass cannon, all in deck known is Belcher, game 1, you won't even know they're playing it until they combo off unless you get lucky, are on the play, & you turn 1 Thoughtseize. Aside from that, if you do know you're playing belcher, know that their deck is typically, 11 business cards, & a bunch of mana, & 7 of those 11 business cards, are going to mean Empty the Warrens, obviously if they combo off and make an army, that means you go full throttle into Reanimateing an Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, if they haven't comboed off for some reason then you should go for Iona, Shield of Emeria naming red. If they get a turn 1 Goblin Charbelcher, you still have access to Force of Will to combat, or even the ability to get out a [cards]Tidespout Tyrant[cards] & bounce it back to their hand.
Post sideboard +Thoughtseize Flusterstorm, -Show and Tell since it's a bit slower & they can ride a Goblin Charbelcher on it, making it uncounterable, then discard to a Lion's Eye Diamond to activate. They will likely have a mostly Wish dedicated sideboard, so don't expect too much in the form of graveyard hate, if they do anything at all, it "might" be Xantid Swarm because you have blue & Force of Will. Both sides are fast combo decks, so whoever goes off 1st will still be the most impact on the game.

14) Elves (Combo, Light playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard They are a tribal, aggro, combo deck, if you can wrap your head around that ^.^ It means more specifically, they'll cast lots of mana producing elves, while focusing on a combo like finish through these key cards Glimpse of Nature, Natural Order[cards], [cards]Green Sun's Zenith. Luckily however, by the time they have enough mana to Green Sun for 7 it will be turns later, while Natural Order & Glimpse of Nature are faster, you still have enough disruption in Force of Will & Thoughtseize while they are essentially a mono green deck, aside from possibly Deathrite Shaman in which, it still takes a whole turn before it can actually eliminate cards from your graveyard. Entomb for Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite to Reanimateing it, will almost always be game against them, since half their deck or more will die to -2/-2.
Post sideboard +Show and Tell/Thoughtseize & Pithing Needle for Deathrite Shaman's if you see them or see green/black anything like Bayou/Verdant Catacombs. -Tidespout Tyrant & some Careful Study since more Show and Tell means you're more likely to be able to drop the creature from hand instead of relying on the graveyard as heavily. They may bring in Cabal Therapy as well as some graveyard hate, though their hate could be anything whether it's one of the artifacts, or one of the "free" black graveyard hate spells like Extraction, Leyline of the Void, or Faerie Macabre.

15) Goblins (Light playtesting required)
Pre sideboard They are a tribal aggro deck, they have a heavy focus on card advantage & overwhelming by swarming with tons of goblins, but they are not fast, & unless they're splashing a color, they don't even have relevant disruption. The only thing you have to look out for is Goblin Matron into a Stingscourger which will bounce your creature back to your hand after going through the work to Reanimate it. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is something they simply can never answer as it will almost always completely wipe their side of the board, & Krenko will only become a 1/1 that does basically nothing. This is one of the easier match ups you can go against as your clock is just faster than theirs, & they have almost nothing for an answer to stop you save for maybe Stingscourger.
Post sideboard +Thoughtseize & Show and Tell. They will likely bring in one of the artifact based graveyard hate, so maybe even Pithing Needle since it also affects Aether Vial & some of their goblins abilities. Blood Moon is also a possibility, but you're fast enough that it shouldn't matter, though just in case it can't hurt to nab a basic land with an early fetchland.

16) Merfolk (Disruption, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard Another tribal deck on the list, they are mono blue (unless splashing a color which is uncommon), a bunch of "fish" backed up by some disruption & card draw, the disruption being Daze Cursecatcher & Force of Will for most lists. Their goal is to get out creatures & take the combat step to victory like most other traditional aggro decks. Since they are not fast, you can wait a turn if you expect Daze or Cursecatcher off of an Aether Vial if it gets to the point of that being a possibility, but on the play you can be so fast it might not even matter. One thing to note against this deck, they can put down alot of damage in 1 turn, with just a Mutavault & a single merfolk in play, they can at end of turn Vial in another lord, then cast another one on their next turn, & since they all pump eachother, they can suddenly be swinging for alot of damage where the previous turn they hit you for significantly less, for the most part however, by the time it gets to that point, you will have combo'ed out if you're going to win. Standstill is something you shouldn't stop over either, unless you both have nothing on the board & you can take advantage of getting to 8 cards, then discarding a bomb to the graveyard, but if they have a threat on the table, just eat it and they draw 3 cards. I only note Standstill because I've seen people stop over it when they should just accept their opponent drawing 3 cards & eat it, & in most cases, that is what you have to do, especially if they have a threat on the board, Mutavault, or an Aether Vial.
Post sideboard +Show and Tell, Thoughtseize, -Careful Study. They are more likely to bring in graveyard hate artifacts than anything else, but never forget the possibility of Surgical Extraction because it removes all copies & is "Free" to cast at -2 life.

17) Zombies (Disruption, Light playtesting recommended, a less common match up)
Pre sideboard Walking dead, Zombardment, etc, whatever you'd call it, the key cards to watch out for are Cabal Therapy, while Carrion Feeder & Goblin Bombardment are just too slow, they will abuse these cards, specifically Therapy in your case, with Gravecrawler, Lingering Souls & Bloodghast. They may also be running disruption in the form of Tidehollow Sculler After that, they are just an aggro deck, & Entomb into Iona, Shield of Emeria into play naming black cuts off the vast majority of their spells, while Entomb into Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite can eat their army away if they are potentially swarming you, as all their creatures are under the 2 toughness or lower category, save for a Carrion Feeder with enough creatures sacrificed. The only other card they may be running that may have an impact on you is Deathrite Shaman, but only if it comes down fast enough to do anything relevant against you before you Reanimate, in which you can do faster than them, especially on the play & in game 1 where they might not even drop it right away, not realizing you're playing Reanimator until it's too late to make a difference.
Post sideboard +Show and Tell Pithing Needle since it can hit Deathrite Shaman, or at a minimum, Goblin Bombardment, Carrion Feeder, - some Reanimate or Careful Study since you're bringing in Show and Tell. They will likely bring in Surgical Extraction, but Leyline of the Void & even Extirpate are a possibility. The graveyard artifact hate is less likely since they use the graveyard themselves.

18) 12 post (Light playtesting required, however a less common match up)
Pre sideboard They are a ramp deck with elements of combo in 1 card, Show and Tell. Aside from that they have almost no interaction with you, though the possibility of Crop Rotation into their 1 of Bojuka Bog if they are running it, based on the list that won San Diego this year. If they Show and Tell, they will drop Eldrazi, but may also drop Primeval Titan, however you can be faster than them, so Entomb into Griselbrand into play, drawing 7 or 14 cards can easily be the end of them with so much card advantage, as their mid game plan of Cloudpost Cloudpost Cloudpost is just too slow. This should be one of your easier match ups since you are faster than they are, and they don't pack much for disruption at all.
Post sideboard +Thoughtseize Karakas, -Show and Tell. +Blacing Archon as a 1 of is also helpful against those Emrakuls, but in this Eldrazi deck, they also have the potential to destroy it with Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. They may bring in Flusterstorm for more disruption since they will have almost none game 1, & if they are running graveyard hate it will likely be artifact based. They also may have Chalice of the Void in their sideboard, but that may just be too slow.

19) Junk/The rock (Disruption, Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard They are an aggro based deck backed up by disruption in the form of discard. Their relevant disruption will be Deathrite Shaman Hymn to Tourach & possibly Thoughtseize. Aside from that, they are mostly just an aggro deck, so you can combo off before they get you anywhere near lethal damage, especially since their disruption is some of the least effective, Hymn is random, Deathrite can be too slow, & only Thoughtseize hits the card they actually want to go to the graveyard. This should for the most part be one of your easier match ups since most lists don't pack alot of target discard from the start.
Post sideboard +Show and Tell & Pithing Needle, which can name Deathrite Shaman, or Knight of the Reliquary to stop Bojuka Bog tricks, -Careful Study. This is another deck that may possibly be running Extirpate, the more likely candidates however are Surgical Extraction or one of the artifact based graveyard hate.

20) Reanimator The mirror match! (Moderate playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard If you go against the mirror match, the key thing to remember is what you already know, they're doing the same thing you're doing. Winning the die roll may be the deciding factor since both sides will likely be racing to get an Iona, Shield of Emeria into play naming black. Before that disruption comes into play, & since Iona is the worst, prioritize in preventing them from successfully casting an Entomb, aside from that, if it goes for the long haul & you keep disrupting eachother, only to both Reanimate Griselbrands to have them go back to the graveyard again, your overall goal will still be to get an Iona into play under most conditions, especially if they have nothing on the board & you have the chance to Reanimate anything of your choice. Also to note, the Reanimate Exhume & Animate Dead work from both graveyards, so you can try to "next level" them, Reanimating their stuff while keeping your hand more focused on disruption to prevent them from doing so, in which they can also do the same thing, so be careful about Entombing for your creature unless you're secure in getting it into play before they steal it from your graveyard.
Post sideboard This could get tricky, depending on what you think they'll sideboard, you could base your sideboard on what you think their game plan is, instead of what you think you should do against Reanimate as a deck, basing it more on the player themselves. Aside from paragraphs of speculation on how far that can go, remember that in any mirror match, card advantage can be what it comes down to since many mirror matches can take longer games that go back and forth, aside from a blowout like a turn 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria into play naming black. If you go the more control route against them, then +Flusterstorm & Thoughtseize, but if you just want to go all in and try to race them, especially if you're on the play, then stick with trying to cheat a bomb into play as fast as possible.

[Koby]

I think for the purpose of Reanimator, it should reflect traditional lists rather than combo lists.

The combo lists are a subset of the main archetype, and are more specialized with card selection. It may confuse first timers looking at the list and wondering why Children of Korlis is included, for instance; or how Emrakul is getting reanimated with Reanimate. Perhaps you can modify the OP by throwing a reference to combo lists without showing it as the main set of cards.

[PirateKing]

There should be some space put between TinFins and Reanimator as they are different decks.
Lumping them all into one primer will get people posting in wrong threads.
Otherwise I look forward to seeing the rest.
EDIT Koby beat me to it

[feline]

I'm going to explain all of that, noting what is "non traditional" in it's own section below the regular stuff, while the traditional stuff will be the priority, I just haven't organized the singles yet and such.

I also want to base the traditional stuff on what is actually ran, so I am going over the lists since the printing of griselbrand again, & noting every card in every list, how many times it was ran -vs- wasnt ran, and stuff that is in most decklists will be what gets properly noted, middleground stuff will get noted but not the the priority, and the rogue stuff or rare'r stuff will be beneath. It takes a bit of time to go over every list but I've done this stuff before so it won't take forever, I just don't want to put what is "traditional" based on "That seems traditional" I want to base it on actual results, as I've noticed already Animate Dead is a little less in lists than I predicted it would be already.

Either way it just means it will all make sense when it's actually complete, I'm still moving stuff around, I still have a TON of stuff to add that isn't there.

Tinfin's will get a nod but the main focus will be traditional Reanimator, if people want to go more in depth on Tin-fins I have linked the thread to that accordingly in the links section. ^.^

Part of the reason I posted it early is so that if anyone was curious, they could see the "updates" themselves & sorta see how I do these by checking it every so often if they feel compelled to do so out of interest, maybe I'm having too much fun doing this and I really am crazy!

-edit- 5:00 pm Pacific time. Everything basically complete except for match ups at this point.

-edit- 6:30 pm Pacific time. Continuing next day.

-edit- Done, March 22nd

[Woj]

Other primers by Feline:
High Tide http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25666-Primer-Deck-High-Tide
Belcher http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25698-Primer-Deck-Belcher
Zoo http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25707-Primer-Deck-Zoo
Pox http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25713-Primer-Deck-Pox
Stax http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25724-Primer-Deck-Stax

For more on Tin-Fins / combo Reanimator: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24104-TinFins-3-Return-of-the-Onion-Burst



I'm pretty sure neither of those are needed in a Reanimator primer. The links to other primers, none of which have any relation to Reanimator, reek of self-promotion. Most of those links and credits are already imbedded at the end of every one of Feline's posts. A better place for those links would be in the "All the totally awesome stuff by Feline" thread, that I'm sure many admirers would read and post within.

Tin Fins is definitely a different deck even though it's a variation of Reanimator, and plays differently since it can win on the same turn it reanimates Griselbrand. (i.e. not as much fear of life loss vs. aggro decks), thus I think the inclusion of links and comparisons to the Tin Fins deck will confuse newbies trying to figure out traditional reanimator. The trickle down effect is that we all will have to read their confused posts after they've decided to include Emrakul in their traditional reanimator list b/c "Tin Fins has both Emrakul and Reanimate, and Emrakul is bigger than Griselbrand so that makes it better..."

My main concern is that the entire primer reads as a Google search result of "Reanimator + tournament results". I get the impression that not a lot of play time with this deck has been logged in by the author. How about we get some collaboration with the dude that won the MOCS tournament with Reanimator and combine some his 13 page primer into this one? The concern was that his sarcastic writing tone might warp young minds... I say "so what!?" A 10 year old on the internet can find many more things to warp their mind than sarcastic tone in a MtG forum.

This is a forum specializing in Legacy format MtG strategy and discussion, and the primers should reflect that knowledge and expertise. For example: Sphinx of the Steel Wind has been dropped from the main deck in most recent successful lists, b/c Griselbrand already serves a similar role and that slot can be filled with another creature like Tidespout Tyrant (which has been adopted recently by Todd Anderson and has been in Gerry T lists). I can see that by Google searching for tournament results, yet this primer states that Tidespout isn't popular nor in most lists. Why? There seems to be a shift towards that creature recently, and reading a couple of the SCG articles corroborates this trend. Why/how is Tyrant better than Angel of Despair or Sphinx traditionally and popularly used in this spot? These types of answers and observations should be included in a primer, to save other people the large amount of play-test and/or tournament time to figure this out. Please, Rune! Get involved in this somehow, for the greater good of Legacy Reanimator players across the nation and globe.

[Lt. Quattro]

I've seen Jace played in some sideboards, can you explain why you would want to, in what match ups, what comes out and also put it in the primer?

For those of us who like to know the history of a deck, could you post what early deck lists looked like, why the cards were selected and at what points in time was this deck hot.

[xfxf]

Wouldn't it be better if someone who actually plays the deck wrote the primer so we could prevent confusions like Tinfins/Reanimator (completely separate decks imo) and get to read about finer points of playing the deck?

[useL]

Get Aslan to write the primer.

[spector14]

Get Aslan to write the primer.

View ALSAN HAD Said That wrote the deck already weeks ago but it is Disappeared .. So instead of criticize feline I would say good instead because it has begun to do so! Sure Collaboration of a serious player in the Scripture of the primer would benefit for sure!

[feline]

Thank you for the above notes, still working on the primer as of this message.

[Kich867]

View ALSAN HAD Said That wrote the deck already weeks ago but it is Disappeared .. So instead of criticize feline I would say good instead because it has begun to do so! Sure Collaboration of a serious player in the Scripture of the primer would benefit for sure!

No one reads very well. Aslan is in the hospital, that's why he hasn't written the primer.

[Rune]

Please, Rune! Get involved in this somehow

Oh, well that's awkward. I didn't realize people cared that much about who did it. It seemed like feline had a stronger desire to do it, and it didn't make a big difference to me.

Anyway, when I started writing it was never with the intention of having it embedded within another person's work, so I guess I'll have to figure out what else to do with my now 16 pages of madman ramblings on Reanimator.

[feline]

Oh, well that's awkward. I didn't realize people cared that much about who did it. It seemed like feline had a stronger desire to do it, and it didn't make a big difference to me.

Anyway, when I started writing it was never with the intention of having it embedded within another person's work, so I guess I'll have to figure out what else to do with my now 16 pages of madman ramblings on Reanimator.

Don't say that! If you have that much information all it is, is just figuring out how to word it & share it, though I know that takes some work, if that's the issue, well people still want to see what you have to say anyway somehow, everyone loves insight. ^.^

[Arsenal]

So I really like Todd Anderson's SCG Open Indianapolis list: http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=10367&iddeck=75606

Problem is that I don't own any Show and Tells (nor have access to them through other players). I understand this takes away a different angle of attack, but could I just replace the 2x Show and Tell with 2x Thoughtseize (running the full set maindeck)? I figure that if I can't get Griselbrand in play through an alternate method, I should try to protect my sole avenue of attack; hence, beef up the discard. As an aside, more Thoughtseize may allow me to ditch a monster in the yard when I don't have Entomb/Careful Study. Would going -2 Show and Tell, +1 Thoughtseize +1 Misdirection be better?

[allek]

... so I guess I'll have to figure out what else to do with my now 16 pages of madman ramblings on Reanimator.

Well, feel free to PM me it at any time :wink:

[MadManMax]

What do you guys think about this unusual list that just placed 1st at 64 man tourney? It looks like a reanimator deck back from the old days, less control elements and more agressivenes.
u
Deck Name: Reanimator Position: 1
Reanimator Charles Jérémy Sideboard

Creatures [16]
1 Angel of Despair
1 Anger
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Laquatus's Champion
1 Magister Sphinx
1 Thraximundar
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Instants [8]
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb


Sorceries [16]
4 Buried Alive
4 Exhume
4 Faithless Looting
4 Reanimate

Enchantments [4]
4 Animate Dead

Artifacts [4]
4 Lotus Petal

Lands [12]
1 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
2 Badlands
4 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs

4 Pithing Needle
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Blazing Archon
2 Defense Grid
4 Through the Breach

[Koby]

Looks like a budget (non-blue) version of traditional Reanimator. Through the Breach replaces Show & Tell, Faithless Looting replaces Careful Study. Anger just speeds things up.

[Zilong]

What do you guys think about this unusual list that just placed 1st at 64 man tourney? It looks like a reanimator deck back from the old days, less control elements and more agressivenes.
u
Deck Name: Reanimator Position: 1
Reanimator Charles Jérémy Sideboard

Creatures [16]
1 Angel of Despair
1 Anger
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Laquatus's Champion
1 Magister Sphinx
1 Thraximundar
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Instants [8]
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb


Sorceries [16]
4 Buried Alive
4 Exhume
4 Faithless Looting
4 Reanimate

Enchantments [4]
4 Animate Dead

Artifacts [4]
4 Lotus Petal

Lands [12]
1 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
2 Badlands
4 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs

4 Pithing Needle
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Blazing Archon
2 Defense Grid
4 Through the Breach

it's my french friend (i'm chinese ^^) with his reanimator (version a little fun because he use some cards in his card book -_ -) in GPT toulouse france, he is very lucky that day to have a lot of turn 1 kill with his Turn 1 Dark Ritual + entomb + return Grisel + Draw 14 + Faithless Looting Anger + reanimate Magister Sphinx get all haste and 2 creatures
attack to win.

finally the 2 winners split the bilands and they play for fun, his RB reanimator lose 0:2 to Team America, beacause the player Team America do not go to GP Strasbourg, so the 3 byes for his reanimator , happy and lucky : )

metagame, report, photo and 3 top8 videos here by our forum , youtube and facebook MCB(in french...)
http://www.legacy31.org/t742-legacy-resultats-trial-gp-strasbourg-du-10-mars-2013

and for me, i was also lucky just 4 days ago i have win a small GPT in bordeaux with my UB reanimator version like Alsan and Joaquín Solis
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9846&iddeck=71855
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10265&iddeck=74819

a litte change that i use one Grave Titan for the weapon against Liliana and i found it not bad, i will test it for GP.

[FTW]

There are a number of techy silver bullets one can run in Reanimator. It should be noted that, if you are running multiple Animate Dead, the following card should NOT be one of them: Iridescent Angel

Just played a match where someone was Entombing for a tool to stay alive and ended up facepalming hard.

[feline]

Update Mar-25th-2013
Congrats to Devin Koepke, 3rd place at the open with http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=54219

Looks like the lotus petals are still good as the trend continues. This version didn't maindeck any Show and Tells, while maindecking 4 Thoughtseize instead of 2, also no sideboard Pithing Needles like some of the previous versions.

Also this one still ran Daze while the card has been cut recently in the lotus petal lists.

It also maindecked a Blazing Archon instead of a Tidespout Tyrant.

Also ponder, didn't catch that at first.

[Dyvith]

Lack of Ponder in Devin's list seemed really strange. There's no way that can be right. Also, Eleven disruption spells seems soooo high.

[Arsenal]

Lack of Ponder seems off. For a deck running 16 actual Land cards, I almost always want to see a cantrip or two in my opener.

[phazonmutant]

Pretty much everything that we heard/saw from Devin's deck meshes perfectly with why Reanimator should play Ponder. They said he was "running hot" throughout the rest of the day - yeah, if you just have it all the time (or rip like a champ like he did in the quarterfinals), Ponder's going to look pretty slow and useless. But in his Semifinals match he kept a couple of hands that had Careful Studies and outs but no ins and just drew bricks until he died.

That's the perfect showcase for why Ponder is necessary.

[Arsenal]

By and large, I think Todd Anderson's SCG Open Indianapolis list is the 'core' list that most people should look at if deciding to play Reanimator. I just can't get behind a list running less than 3 Ponder.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

They said he was "running hot" throughout the rest of the day - yeah, if you just have it all the time (or rip like a champ like he did in the quarterfinals)...

Sometimes you just lucksack :rolleyes:

[Julian23]

Thanks for all your work, feline. Since I'm likely to be reanimating at GP Straßburg, it was nice to get a refreshing look at an up-2-date primer.

Just some minor things I came across while reading, that I think should be added:


Karakas: came into the general spotlight when CFB included 2 maindeck copies of it to fight opposing Karakas(es).
City of Traitors: as you mention it greatly supports Show and Tell but was also introduced to allow more flexibility aginst Spell Pierce and Daze.
Flusterstorm: very good at disrupting your opponent; still decent but not as strong at protection your combo.
Thoughtseize: although well know, the primer should still mention that it can act as a poor-man's Entomb/Study
Hapless Researcher: acts as Entomb 5-6 against one-shot graveyard removal with Exhume on the stack.
Grafdigger's Cage: just nitpicking, but in my experience Cage is just as common as Crypt these days.

[cogitoergosum]

Alright, so here is the decklist that I am going to be testing out.
3 Grisel
1 Blazing Archon
1 Iona
1 Jin Gitaxias
1 Flex Creature

Instants:
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb

Sorceries:
4 Careful Study
4 Ponder
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Show and Tell or animate dead, depending on meta
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy

17 Land Build

SB-Meta Dependent

Looking at the mainboard, I think not using lotus petals gives this deck an optimal mixture of speed and power. I want to try out cabal therapies instead of daze, because it lets me see the opponents hand and actually has use after t2, and additionally serves as even more ways to bin a creature (16 in this build). What do you guys think of this move? I haven't had a chance to playtest it yet, but it has goldfished quite well.

[feline]

Update Apr-21st-2013

Congrats to Kyle Hersey, 5th place at the open with http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=55303

Just can't keep reanimator down, and this version still ran Daze if you are wondering.

-Also on a personal note, I've played against this person a local events, since we are both south Seattle area, so grats from that perspective, nice to see someone from the local group have success on this day. ^.^

[elof]

Has anyone considerd Sire of Insanity?
6/4, 4BR, At the beginning of each end step, each player discards his or her hand.

If it is possible to animate this early I think most players straight up lose to it. Of course it's bad against Swords and mid/late-game but it's still a very powerful effect against anything non-dredge.

[feline]

People don't even use Jin-Gitaxias anymore really since the printing of Griselbrand.

[Just me]

Hi all,

I wanted to just say that the new primer is great. Very nice to have it, props and thanks to Feline.

About Jin-Gitaxia, I actually do run 1 in my list. It Pitches to FOW, which is relevant at times. And against some decks it's better as Griselbrand I think. I mean, if you're sure it will live to their endstep, they're reduced to topdecking against your fresh 7 each turn (aka, loaded with counters). Griselbrand at times is a little more risky.

But the Sire of Inasanity I wouldn't play (not blue, effect is symmetrical).

[jcsy]

a body of 6/4 without any evasion is pretty much worse than a 5/4 draw Jin?

im suspecting Griselbrand will soon be Griselban :D

but hei, they will never ban a creature right :D (i'm looking at Tarmogoyf)

[feline]

Update May-10th-2013 noted & added to list. (Would have been sooner but last check this tournament results wasn't in yet, though I currently try to check at least once a week minimum between everything else at the council for 100+ or so tournaments.)

12th place - Aram Portella - LCL 2013, Abril (110 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10747&iddeck=78488)

Creatures [10]
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
2 Hapless Researcher
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
4 Griselbrand
Instants [16]
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
Sorceries [16]
1 Thoughtseize
3 Ponder
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
Enchantments [2]
2 Animate Dead
Lands [17]
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
3 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
-sb-
1 Angel of Despair
1 Blazing Archon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
2 Flusterstorm
4 Show and Tell
3 Submerge

-This version ran Daze, no Lotus Petals, all Show and Tells in the sideboard, & also ran 2 Jin-Gitaxias & 2 Hapless maindeck, following older trends over the newer ones that have been pushing away from Daze & adding Lotus Petals. Also the 2 Jin-Gitaxias main even with 4 Griselbrand main is something not commonly seen. In either case, they pulled off a 12th place with, congrats to Aram Portella

[rodgon666]

Rodgon and I have both abandoned this deck... and I think he has quit Magic all together. I never see anything from him anymore. To be fair though I keep wanting to pick it back up.

hahaha. cant believe this is still going. lol

i still play the eventual tournament and still kick ass with the deck even though it has been modified quite a bit to make it more viable and faster with the unbanning of entomb.

I have probably played this deck more than any single person out here, and have more information about tournaments, and match ups than the average joe playing this deck, down to strategies, little moves that no one really sees and also the big reasoning why counters are absolutely retarded in the deck without the help of tutors ;)

the beauty of the deck is that anyone can make it their own, that is what reanimator is all about! its fun to lock someone out turn 1 or 2 and seeing them side board in 15 cards just to loose again. lol

ill be happy to chip in on any information or questions about the deck that you guys might have.

here is the list i have been running lately in case anyone has any questions. won 2nd in a recent 20 person tournament with it only losing to a metalworker deck ( mostly due to me not knowing what the hell he was playing. lol )

Discard and graveyard fillers:
- 4 entomb
- 4 putrid imp
- 4 oona's prowler
- 3 careful study

Creatures for reanimation:
- 2 Iona
- 2 jin gitaxias
- 2 sundering titan
- 2 griselbrand
- 1 bogardan hellkite

Reanimation spells:
- 4 reanimate
- 4 animate dead
- 4 exhume

Acceleration:

- 4 dark rituals

--------------------

The magic ratio that has always worked for me has always been something close to 33%33%33%. creatures, reanimation spells and discard and graveyard fillers.
I cannot stress enough how important it is to not just have the reanimation be your only way out. lol this is the first mistake people make. I have won at least 5 fifth of all my matches thanks to the imps and oonas. specially the oonas. they provide block fodder, small damage inputs and distraction for yoru main strategy. plus the invaluable first and 2nd turn discard if you dont have an entomb of course. People have hated on this concept from the beginning , but its worked well for me always, thus i dont see a need to change that part at least.

The big issue here will always be: why dont you run disruption... or counters... discard... creature kill... blah blah blah... and to those people i just tell them its not needed. The deck is not going to out counter a control deck, its not going to efficiently do it at least. and the more counters you have in your hand... just means a more delayed fat creature in play. I would warrant the counters in the version with the mystical tutors, it was cute and a valid argument for them since you could search for one when you needed it, but in a world without it, the only viable strategy for the deck is to be a fast combo deck that kills your opponent or locks them out ASAP. and you do this with numbers and with the ratio i set up, its very hard to not just statistically draw into what you need.

creatures like sundering titan and bogardan hellkite might be making you think WTF... but in a metagame full of 3-4 color control decks, they win more games than iona or jin. it will reset the board for your opponent and not hurt you needed mana ratio of 1 -2 mana one little bit. hellkite is amazing vs goblins or any other hoard decks too.

decks you will always have issues with are faster combo decks like belcher or anything that can kill you turn 1 or 2. if you see these in your metagames, then sideboard accordingly. you have enough small critters to warrant 4 cabal therapies in the side to make them useful ( plus it works to get yoru shit in the yard in a last moment of need) defense grids, pithing needles and stifles always are nice additions vs these decks until a nice iona hits play winning you the games.

you should be faster than most aggro decks. you should out play most control decks, and you will always have to play around grave hate against any deck now thanks to many very very annoying cards, but learn to use your exhumes , your imps and the stack and play order to play nicely around them. EXAMPLE: opponent plays a tormods crypt. he thinks he has you beat. lol noob.

- have a discard outlet ( imp, oonas prowler or entomb)
- if you already have a creature in the yard, perfect.
- cast exhume
- other player then pops crypt to rid you of your creature. * he then smirks and is thinking he is the man! he is the champion! how can anything go wrong? he just won with a crypt! :D... he is wrong...
- you resolve the crypts effect, your graveyard is gone... but your exhume has yet to resolve ;) (in case you newbies to the deck are wondering... you dont have to target a creature as you play exhume as you do with reanimate or animate dead so until it resolves.. you dont have to name or choose)
- with an empty graveyard, and your opponent smuggly thiking he got you... declare that you will like to respond to the exhumes resolution by either discarding another fatty, or casting entomb to search for what you need.
- he will say... what?? you cant do that!! ... to which you will say... uh... yeah noob, you can! and explain the ruling on exhume to him.
- his smug look will desapear with what is now a solid face of AWWWWWW... dammit!!! why did i mulligan to 5 for that damn crypt!!!
- proceed to win the game with a griselbrand of jin. good game good sir... good game.


thats just one example. lol

hope this helps. ill post it in the other thread too... you know... since my info is ANCIENT or so people say ;)

[Kl'rt]

How essential is having Show and Tell in the sideboard for this deck? Is Reanimator viable without it?

I ask, because it seems there's a movement in this forum to get Show and Tell banned in this format.

[PirateKing]

I have been trying lists without Show and Tell in the 75 for a while now, with low to medium success.

Right now I have 3 Echoing Truth in the main and Chain of Vapor in the side, along with Spell Pierce and Pithing Needle to try and actively fight the hate as best I can, being as fast and proactive as I can game one, and better suited to nullify their hate without sacrificing speed game two.

It seems that the best I can do is just pull even with a SB Show list, or be a little worse. I've yet to find what I would consider a better list, but I am not convinced that you require Show to play the deck.

[jamis]

I've tried various sideboard strategies as to not be completely predictable in my local meta. One of my favored non-S&T options is some number of Jace & Liliana in non-Lotus Petal lists to transform into a kind of Planeswalker control deck with the possiblity to still cheat something nasty into play against an unprepared opponent. Like I said, this has just been in local metagames, and I don't have any numbers to back it up, but it's worked for me, and I definitely haven't been the first person to put Jace in a Reanimator sideboard, so it could be something to consider.

[Kich867]

I have been trying lists without Show and Tell in the 75 for a while now, with low to medium success.

Right now I have 3 Echoing Truth in the main and Chain of Vapor in the side, along with Spell Pierce and Pithing Needle to try and actively fight the hate as best I can, being as fast and proactive as I can game one, and better suited to nullify their hate without sacrificing speed game two.

It seems that the best I can do is just pull even with a SB Show list, or be a little worse. I've yet to find what I would consider a better list, but I am not convinced that you require Show to play the deck.

When I was playing reanimator, show and tell was more often than not a liability. I've had more than one player tell me they were hoping I would so that they could drop their Knight or Humility in. It's not actually that hard to fight through hate with Reanimator. Deathrite Shaman isn't actually -that- bad to fight through, suffice to say I've never been a fan of the card in the deck.

[feline]

Update May-20th-2013 noted & added to list.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=55968

Creatures (7)
1 Blazing Archon
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Lands (16)
1 Island
2 Swamp
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas
Spells (37)
4 Lotus Petal
2 Animate Dead
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard:
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Flusterstorm
2 Submerge
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Show and Tell
2 City of Traitors

Back to the Lotus Petal version this time, while keeping Daze as well. No maindeck Show and Tell.

[Dyvith]

Just placed in 1st with Reanimator at Jupiter Games monthly NELC.

I posted a tournament report on the source as well as some changes I plan on making. Check it out

[Kich867]

Took second at an 8 man local tourney yesterday with Reanimator.

List:

// Creatures: 7
4x Griselbrand
1x Iona
1x Tidespout
1x Elesh Norn

// Spells: 35
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
4x Thoughtseize

4x Brainstorm
2x Ponder
4x Careful Study
4x Entomb

4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
2x Animate Dead

18x Lands including a Karakas

// Sideboard:
2x Flusterstorm
2x Spell Pierce
2x Echoing Truth
2x Chain of Vapor
1x Pithing Needle
2x Wasteland
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Blazing Archon
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Jin Gitaxian


Round 1: Burn by Lyon- 2-0

Game one: I think I get griselbrand online and start to hit him and the lifegain is too much. He correctly tries to kill the Griselbrand with a Chain Lightning and a Fireblast, but I find the daze for the fireblast and have just enough health to survive another turn and get the lifelink going.

SB: -1 Thoughtseize, +1 Jin Gitaxian.

Game two: Iona on turn 2.

Round 2: Scapeshift Nic Fit by Devin- 2-0

Game one: I keep a somewhat sketchy hand, he cabal therapies and I let it resolve, he whiffs. He casts a second therapy, and I force it. I brainstorm and put Exhume, Griselbrand on top of my library, keeping new cards in hand just in case he drops a creature or two. On my turn I draw the exhume, cast entomb, flip the griselbrand into the yard and exhume it. Griselbrand takes the game over.

SB: -3 Daze, +2 Chain of Vapor, +1 Pithing Needle.

Game two: He drops a leyline turn 0, I look at my hand of Entomb, 3x Exhume, Ponder, 2x land. Shit. I pray he doesn't therapy on exhume, he plays a land and passes. I ponder on my turn, not what I need on top, shuffle up and draw the Chain of Vapor. I draw something, play a land, pass the turn. He Green Sun's on his turn for a scavenging ooze, I bounce Leyline at the end of his turn and entomb for griselbrand. Untap, exhume. He somehow slips a pretty big board out of Huntsman / Ooze / Vet / Token to my Griselbrand. I end up not being able to race him somehow, the ooze ate my other creatures and he's threatening about 10 damage a turn and I'm already very low. I don't actually remember how I got into this position, I just know that I ended up being low on life and the game sort of dragged on. Eventually, he only had one green open and I was able to careful study an elesh norn and a tidespout tyrant in the yard. I exhume again, he eats Elesh, I get Tidespout. I thoughtseize to bounce the now large Ooze, and then force it on his main phase to bounce his huntsman and I take the win on the swingback next turn.

Round 3: Deathblade by Rich- 1-2

Game one: I push through a Griselbrand and take it in short order.

Game two: I keep a super cantrip heavy hand with a reanimate effect, all I need to do is find a creature with 2 brainstorms, a ponder, and a careful study. A key mistake where I don't shuffle with my first ponder leads to a poor brainstorm, which leads to really inefficient use of my cantrips. I know what I needed, and I ignored finding it. I read a post earlier on the source on how to properly play Ponder, and I really ignored their advice and lost because of it. I end up never finding a creature, and die because I opted to keep redundant effects instead of finding exactly what I needed.

Game three: I mull to 5 and have everything that I need. I entomb in response to his discard. He forces, I daze it, he forces again, I lose my entomb and my reanimate effect. He had the god-hand to stop me, and there was no way I could come back. In two turns he snap backs inquisition and takes my reanimate I rip off the top. =(.

We play another game for fun, and I have the god-hand back, so I'm not that upset about it, it can sometimes just happen.


I end up 2-1 to take second for some packs.

[Dyvith]

With the new Legendary changes, Reanimator can no longer rely on Karakas to protect its own creatures. Therefore, I have created a new list that I will be running.

MD:

4 Griselbrand
1 Iona
1 Elesh Norn
1 Tidespout

4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Force of Will
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle

2 Show and Tell
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
1 Animate Dead

4 U.Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand

4 Lotus Petal

SB:
2 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize
2 Echoing Truth
2 Show and Tell
2 Vendillion Clique
1 Angel of Despair

[Dyvith]

Upon further consideration, the sideboard will be adjusted as such:

-1 Thoughtseize
-1 Pithing Needle
+2 Karakas

The addition of Karakas in the sideboard is two fold: it provides additional lands to hardcast fatties in control matchups, adds mana to play around soft countermagic from RUG, etc, and it also is disruption against other Show and Tell decks.
At no point does reanimator really want four needles or four thoughtseize. Three of each is sufficient.

[Dyvith]

4 Grisel
1 Iona
1 Elesh
1 Angel of Desp

4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead

4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Entomb

2 Show and Tell

4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize

4 U.Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand

4 Lotus Petal

SB:

3 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
2 Karakas
2 Show and Tell
2 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
2 Vendillion Clique
1 Tidespout Tyrant

[Kich867]

That series of posts was a little confusing, however, I happened to cave and traded off 2x Tropical Islands (I need to focus on one deck haha) for Show and Tells and Lotus Petals (3x SnT, 4x Petals). I put together the maindeck list you won NELC with and I have to say, with Lotus Petals, Show and Tell feels a lot better, the whole deck in general felt a lot better.

The only difference was that I was running 2x ponder, +1 thoughtseize +1 land over your list, I put everything together from memory and couldn't for the life of me figure out how you fit the last 2 ponders into the deck haha. So I just ran it as is and it felt great, but I'm definitely going to be putting the other ponders into the list and testing from there. I think your most recent sideboard is solid, I would probably, however, run the singleton Karakas maindeck as a good maindeckable answer to some SnT decks and instead of running Karakas in the board, run Wastelands. They still tap for mana, they deal with Karakas, they deal with Maze of Ith, they seem like a better slot after the legend rule.

Overall I definitely have to say, the maindeck just feels super solid and will feel even more solid when I get the extra ponders in there, Ponder rocks.

[jcsy]

That series of posts was a little confusing, however, I happened to cave and traded off 2x Tropical Islands (I need to focus on one deck haha) for Show and Tells and Lotus Petals (3x SnT, 4x Petals). I put together the maindeck list you won NELC with and I have to say, with Lotus Petals, Show and Tell feels a lot better, the whole deck in general felt a lot better.

The only difference was that I was running 2x ponder, +1 thoughtseize +1 land over your list, I put everything together from memory and couldn't for the life of me figure out how you fit the last 2 ponders into the deck haha. So I just ran it as is and it felt great, but I'm definitely going to be putting the other ponders into the list and testing from there. I think your most recent sideboard is solid, I would probably, however, run the singleton Karakas maindeck as a good maindeckable answer to some SnT decks and instead of running Karakas in the board, run Wastelands. They still tap for mana, they deal with Karakas, they deal with Maze of Ith, they seem like a better slot after the legend rule.

Overall I definitely have to say, the maindeck just feels super solid and will feel even more solid when I get the extra ponders in there, Ponder rocks.

so karakas now is used solely as to bounce opposing legendaries?

seems like a smaller use to me

maybe we can improvise

[Kich867]

so karakas now is used solely as to bounce opposing legendaries?

seems like a smaller use to me

maybe we can improvise

It's still wildly powerful against SnT based decks, but in general I'm just running Wastelands over it when the legend rule happens. Wastelands kill Karakas and Maze of Ith, and both of those would be real annoying to see.

[PirateKing]

I ran Karakas as a stifle-proof Waste against opposing Karakas, with the added bonus of being good against SnT decks.
With the new ruling, the main purpose is removed, and the narrow application just doesn't warrant a spot in the 75.
Wasteland solves all the problems that Karakas did, and against SnT, I try and assembly Tidespout & cantrips as quickly as possible if I am unable to just outright counter the Show itself.

[feline]

Update June-2nd-2013 noted & added to list.

11th place of 298 players, SCG Baltimore, June 2nd
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=56340

Creatures (7)
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Lands (15)
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Underground Sea
Spells (38)
4 Lotus Petal
1 Animate Dead
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Ponder
4 Reanimate
2 Show and Tell
3 Thoughtseize
~Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Terastodon
1 Echoing Truth
2 Flusterstorm
1 Repeal
2 Spell Pierce
1 Wipe Away
2 Show and Tell
1 City of Traitors

This one is pushing the more traditional Lotus Petal version, there are no Daze, as it seems it's been going back and forth between Daze -or- Lotus Petal since the Lotus Petal version has hit. This one also has 2 main / 2 side Show and Tell which has been seen more as of late. Also note the land count is 15

[Dyvith]

Ben Green Top 32ed and I top 64ed the event with Reanimator as well.

[feline]

Oh dam nice! Reanimator isn't going anywhere anytime soon, hate, screw the hate! DRShaman isn't fast enough. ^^

[Worldslayer]

Oh dam nice! Reanimator isn't going anywhere anytime soon, hate, screw the hate! DRShaman isn't fast enough. ^^

Deathrite isn't actually that annoying, most notably with Show an Tell as your Plan B. It IS annoying, but not so much that the deck is unplayable given that Esper Deathblade gives you YEARS to find any action in most games. It's unfortunate that one of my two losses on the day was to that (the other was to Chris Pikula on RUG), but it felt more like a function of my drawing all air until late both games than anything else. You may want a few cards for Shaman, but Needle and Repeal cover them pretty admirably and are more flexible than something like, say, Ground Seal (Which I was considering to fight DRS/Noxious Revival/etc... but leave Exhume turned on).

For anyone wondering, my Karakas was missing on availability, but I also didn't miss it. Tidespout fights big dumb idiots quite well, Terastadon handled enemy Karakii in a fine manner, and Iona on Blue was all I ever wanted to do against other show and tell decks anyway (especially Omniclash which cannot actually beat that). Worth noting is I did mulligan a few times for colors despite replacing Karakas with an on-color basic, which leads me to believe running Karakas, while powerful, might also be shooting yourself in the foot due to The Fear.

Daze vs. Petal
Daze seems like a stronger sideboard choice than the mana-fueled counters like Spell Pierce (which was awkward and didn't get sided in often) against the aggressive disruption decks like RUG Delver that typically can put a Big Stuff deck like this on the back foot. Lotus Petals as a 4 of are incredible in the main deck, as most of the time you just want to do really awfully unfair things as soon as possible anymore. If you don't, their DRS comes online, or SnT->ETI happens, etc..
Petals in this deck feel kind of like running Moxes when no one else is, and it's fantastic.

-SZ

[Ish]

hahaha. cant believe this is still going. lol
Discard and graveyard fillers:
- 4 entomb
- 4 putrid imp
- 4 oona's prowler
- 3 careful study

Creatures for reanimation:
- 2 Iona
- 2 jin gitaxias
- 2 sundering titan
- 2 griselbrand
- 1 bogardan hellkite

Reanimation spells:
- 4 reanimate
- 4 animate dead
- 4 exhume

Acceleration:

- 4 dark rituals

--------------------



Ok, this has really intrigued me. I would never have considered this deck without extensive counters and disruption. I goldfished this deck and it is FAST!, and very consistant. Obviously no protection after that though.

How come there has been NO discussion regarding this post. I think it merrits some consideration.

[Kich867]

Ok, this has really intrigued me. I would never have considered this deck without extensive counters and disruption. I goldfished this deck and it is FAST!, and very consistant. Obviously no protection after that though.

How come there has been NO discussion regarding this post. I think it merrits some consideration.

Because every other list is fast, consistent, and has extensive counters and/or disruption. The lack of protection and super awful creature/card choices is enough to not play it against any real deck.

[Ish]

I can see this reasoning. I tried the non counter list and it was just too fragile to survive in a diverse meta.

[Ish]

Cool to see Reanimator surge to DtB again. I've always loved the deck but am a little surprised in this heavy Deathrite Shaman meta it is doing so well.

[menace13]

Cool to see Reanimator surge to DtB again. I've always loved the deck but am a little surprised in this heavy Deathrite Shaman meta it is doing so well.
DRS is heavily played, but it's Not just a DRS meta. There are a lot of good match ups for the deck. I feel Lotus Petal versions are the way to go not just against turn 1 DRS. Added value against mirrors, or other fast combo. Though Reanimator is one of the fastest decks anyway, it doesn't lose as much from daze as it gains on Petal, currently.

If it's around it demands hate.

[useL]

Can I post in this thread regarding my BR reanimate list or is there another thread for that?

[Worldslayer]

We got second, guys!

Also, DRS is completely beatable. It's good, but can be Thoughtseized or Force of Will'd or Needled or ignored with Show and Tell just like most cards we have to watch out for. If it comes to it, you can bin two guys with Study and Exhume.
Hardly the death knell for graveyard strategies.

I'm excited to see Reanimator back in the DtB section, also. The deck really is a big bottle of hot sauce.

Now to figure out the "Murder Maverick" fat guy. So far, looking like Sphinx of the Steel Wind might be coming back soon to a necromancer near you.

[feline]

Grats on that 2nd place, there was also a Reanimator that got 15th place, time for an update to the main post to add some names!!!

Update June-24th-2013 noted & added to list.

SCG Philadelphia, 220 players:
2nd place - Seth Zulinski http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=56757
15th place - Gil Medeiros http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=56766

-edit- Actually Seth's name was on here last time too, so it's actually, adding 1 name, & keeping the previous, grats on the double top 16+ placing, in a row!

[GexxX]

Has anyone considerd Sire of Insanity?
6/4, 4BR, At the beginning of each end step, each player discards his or her hand.

If it is possible to animate this early I think most players straight up lose to it. Of course it's bad against Swords and mid/late-game but it's still a very powerful effect against anything non-dredge.

I agree that the effect seems good, but I'd still go with Jin as it draws you cards which is absurdly good. I still keep one singleton Jin in the 75 as it's just such a beating for combo decks. Especially preboard most Decks cant handle him all to well... My creatures are: 3 Griselbrand, 1 Jin-Gitaxias, 1 Tidespout Tyrant, 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria, 1 Blazing Archon. My metagame consists of various stuff, mostly Sneak&Show, control builds and some random stuff. The idea is to race aggro with Griselbrand, handle combo with him, Jin and Iona and use Tidespout Tyrant to beat Karakas. The sideboard only packs an Inkwell Leviathan for control matchups and is interchanged with the Jin to have two non-legendaries and still remain the blue count for FoW. It's also a lot better at racing.

[roflwaffles]

I like Gil's combination of Petals and Daze alot. Seeing as to how one of the greatest strengths of reanimating Griselbrand is being able to draw in response to a threat and find an answer, more counters to dig for is quite nice, especially if we can retain the petals for explosiveness. I'm running a similar build

Sorcery (18)
4x Careful Study
4x Exhume
4x Ponder
4x Reanimate
2x Thoughtseize
Instant (15)
4x Brainstorm
3x Daze
4x Entomb
4x Force of Will
Creature (7)
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3x Griselbrand
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Tidespout Tyrant
Enchantment (1)
1x Animate Dead
Land (15)
1x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
2x Swamp
4x Underground Sea
Artifact (4)
4x Lotus Petal

Although I do like -3 Daze, +2 Show and Tell, +1 Thoughtseize alot as well.


Still can't figure out if I want to run Jin Gitaxias in my main deck yet.

[Worldslayer]

Still can't figure out if I want to run Jin Gitaxias in my main deck yet.

Personally I wouldn't. Griselbrand has completely made this guy obsolete in the "draw bunches of cards" category, and the odds of a 5/4 living through both your turn and theirs is currently....I don't have a number. But low. Really, really low.

He seems good against combo, but sometimes you CAN brick on force in your top 7. Griselbrand's on demand draw lets you use your proactive pieces like Thoughtseize and/or any Duress you run, or go deep again if you whiff on Force in your first iteration. Typically all I ever want against storm and the like is Griselbrand and Iona in orders that vary game to game. Jin is a one man KO if he sticks, but the window to (do something/murder your face in) he leaves them is actually larger than something like Griselbrand or Iona would give them.

[practical joke]

that list seems familiar,

anyways grats on the finish.
Been ages for me since I last checked the forum, can't remember if this has been DTB for long or not.

I'm a fan of lotus petals in reanimate, give the burst of speed the deck needed ever since entomb got unbanned.

[defector]

First: Thanks Feline for the primer! It's about time this got modernized:) I am resleeving this beast for some local testing as it was one of my favorite decks all time. Question about the sideboard. Has the two City of Traitors in the board become obsolete? These new versions seem more in on SnT than ever before, why not the Cities? I run 16 land main and 4 petals in my build and just came off a SnT binge where I really liked the sol lands. Thanks in advance!
defector

[Worldslayer]

First: Thanks Feline for the primer! It's about time this got modernized:) I am resleeving this beast for some local testing as it was one of my favorite decks all time. Question about the sideboard. Has the two City of Traitors in the board become obsolete? These new versions seem more in on SnT than ever before, why not the Cities? I run 16 land main and 4 petals in my build and just came off a SnT binge where I really liked the sol lands. Thanks in advance!
defector

Show and Tell is easily the worst way of cheating a big dumb idiot into play that's available to you, since the other guy gets to play too and you don't get to pick and choose which monster to get. Sol lands help with SnT, but a) they don't really cast anything else and b) we aren't any more "on SnT" than previously. Deathrite really isn't that bad. Promise.

That said, there's probably a UB Sol Land build that could main 4 SnT and run powerful things like Intuition and/or Buried Alive ala Sneak and Show. What the rest of the deck might look like from there, dunno.

[roflwaffles]

Just a couple questions guys:

What are your guys' thoughts on running a Sphinx of the Steel Wind in place of the fourth Griselbrand? Sphinx is definitely a weaker first reanimation target but he seems like one of the stronger ones to resolve after Griselbrand gets into play, especially with vigilance and lifelink protecting your life total.

Is Tidespout Tyrant considered universally stronger than Angel of Despair in the "dealing with permanents" business?

Has anyone tried Sheoldred, Whispering One in the SB so we don't lose to Show and Tell -> Emrakul or is that too narrow of a use to include?

[Worldslayer]

Just a couple questions guys:

What are your guys' thoughts on running a Sphinx of the Steel Wind in place of the fourth Griselbrand? Sphinx is definitely a weaker first reanimation target but he seems like one of the stronger ones to resolve after Griselbrand gets into play, especially with vigilance and lifelink protecting your life total.

Is Tidespout Tyrant considered universally stronger than Angel of Despair in the "dealing with permanents" business?

Has anyone tried Sheoldred, Whispering One in the SB so we don't lose to Show and Tell -> Emrakul or is that too narrow of a use to include?

If you need help after sticking a Griselbrand, you're probably against Maverick, in which case you're probably dead. Even in the event something happens to Big G, I'd rather just have another one than a Sphinx. Tried him in the board lately and found the card just never did anything I wanted it to do or couldn't already do better.

Tyrant does work, often giving me game against some of the fringe decks and cards like 12 Post and Ensnaring Bridge. Angel can handle a first bridge, but can't stop 12 post, can't render opposing big dumb idiots like Emrakul useless by holding Brainstorms, and is generally a Tidespout that only gets to activate once since the difference between "in hand" and "destroyed" is next to negligible - if it isn't in play, it doesn't matter. Tidespout is also your slim, SLIM game one hope against Maverick, which boils down to "make a tidespout, hope they don't have swords, bounce Maze of Ith a lot".

Personally, I'd rather have Tidespout or Angel against Show and Tell -> Emrakul decks, as for whatever reason they treat us like the mirror and usually never actually cast Show and Tell, instead falling back on Sneak Attack and Through the Breach. Sheoldred helps in neither of these cases. I find fighting their red half with Pithing Needle, Blue Elemental Blast, and Flusterstorms for their Flusterstorms typically works better than fighting the Show and Tell they never cast unless they're just on the stone cold nuts.


If anyone's interested, I also have a brief experiential kind of thing about SCGPHilly here: http://ecmclassics.com/?p=746. I plan on going deeper into the deck sometime this week, though most of this thread probably knows a lot of what I'm going to find and flesh out.

Hope this helps, waffles!

[roflwaffles]

Thanks for the quick reply! It somehow escaped my head that Tyrant and Angel can deal with Emrakul lol (I just got back into the game after not playing seriously since 2004).

Wouldn't Sphinx be quite effective vs Maverick? Protection from green handles their big threats like Knight of the Reliquary while not being beaten by Karakas. Then again, I suppose Maze of Ith and Mother of Runes + Scryb Ranger/Aven Mindcensor handles him well as well. If Sphinx isn't worth it then I think Seth's list is the optimal list right now.

Overall the deck feels incredible, 10x stronger than it was when I piloted it 10 years ago with Putrid Imps + Akroma/Verdant Force/Spirit of the Night lol.

[Worldslayer]

Thanks for the quick reply! It somehow escaped my head that Tyrant and Angel can deal with Emrakul lol (I just got back into the game after not playing seriously since 2004).

Wouldn't Sphinx be quite effective vs Maverick? Protection from green handles their big threats like Knight of the Reliquary while not being beaten by Karakas. Then again, I suppose Maze of Ith and Mother of Runes + Scryb Ranger/Aven Mindcensor handles him well as well. If Sphinx isn't worth it then I think Seth's list is the optimal list right now.

Overall the deck feels incredible, 10x stronger than it was when I piloted it 10 years ago with Putrid Imps + Akroma/Verdant Force/Spirit of the Night lol.

They usually have between 4-5 StP effects on top of all that, is the problem. I mean, you can have first turn Sphinx in play to beat Deathrite, Force to beat Swords, and then they're still going to get you with Maze. If I'm going the "please god dont have StP" or "I have force of will" route, Tyrant is a turn slower in terms of killing them, but more effective as you can usually keep them from doing absolutely anything until they can resolve a Swords to Plowshares. I'm working on this matchup currently, as its abominable for me so far, but even here Sphinx doesn't do much since he's not Pro:White.

[kingtk3]

Hi to all, I'm planning to play this deck in a small tournament tomorrow. The last time that I cast an entomb mental misstep was still legal so I'm asking for your advice since I don't have time for testing ^_^

The starting list is basically Worldslayer's with a few changes

4 lotus petal
3 griselbrand
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 iona, shield of emeria
1 tidespout tyrant
1 elesh norn, grand cenobite
1 animate dead
4 entomb
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 underground sea
2 island
2 swamp
4 polluted delta
3 misty rainforest
4 reanimate
4 exhume
4 careful study
2 thoughtseize
4 ponder
1 personal tutor
2 show and tell

Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan
or
Empyrial Archangel
1 blazing archon
1 terastodon
2 Flusterstorm
2 Misdirection
1 echoing truth
1 Wipe Away
2 Crippling Fatigue
2 Show and Tell


A few goldfishes have convinced me that 15 lands are enough and that petals fits well in because they give the deck the speed it needs (remember that the creatures you put into play lose value over time) and have a nice interaction with tidespout.

However I'm kinda clueless to how sideboarding because I have difficulties in finding what to side out: can you give me some advice on how to sideboard against the most common decks?

Another thing that bothers me is the maverick matchup because it has all the tools to hinder our plan: grave hate, 1cc exile removal, enchantment/artifact removal and some lists even discard, and on top of that they have a clock too. Maybe Empyrial Archangel can be of use since it doesn't die to removal nor to maze of ith and stops their aggro, but the matchup feel tough.

[practical joke]

Hi to all, I'm planning to play this deck in a small tournament tomorrow. The last time that I cast an entomb mental misstep was still legal so I'm asking for your advice since I don't have time for testing ^_^

The starting list is basically Worldslayer's with a few changes

4 lotus petal
3 griselbrand
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 iona, shield of emeria
1 tidespout tyrant
1 elesh norn, grand cenobite
1 animate dead
4 entomb
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 underground sea
2 island
2 swamp
4 polluted delta
3 misty rainforest
4 reanimate
4 exhume
4 careful study
2 thoughtseize
4 ponder
1 personal tutor
2 show and tell

Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan
or
Empyrial Archangel
1 blazing archon
1 terastodon
2 Flusterstorm
2 Misdirection
1 echoing truth
1 Wipe Away
2 Crippling Fatigue
2 Show and Tell


A few goldfishes have convinced me that 15 lands are enough and that petals fits well in because they give the deck the speed it needs (remember that the creatures you put into play lose value over time) and have a nice interaction with tidespout.

However I'm kinda clueless to how sideboarding because I have difficulties in finding what to side out: can you give me some advice on how to sideboard against the most common decks?

Another thing that bothers me is the maverick matchup because it has all the tools to hinder our plan: grave hate, 1cc exile removal, enchantment/artifact removal and some lists even discard, and on top of that they have a clock too. Maybe Empyrial Archangel can be of use since it doesn't die to removal nor to maze of ith and stops their aggro, but the matchup feel tough.

About sideboarding. Just ask. I think I've played nearly every possible match-up more than once and have had my share of high finishes. Also you got an entire board to help out.

Just ask about specific match-ups. Because otherwise there's going to be a massive wall of text. Tbh I don't rrally like your sideboard. But I'll explain when I am not on my phone and gone from my work.

[death]

kingtk3, Griselbrand > Jin-Gitaxias so I'd recommend it as 4-of. +14 at instant speed is good against combo, or are you expecting alot of GriselB mirror?

To those SBing 2x Crippling Fatigue nowadays, how is it better than Chain of Vapor as a catch-all and Submerge?

[kingtk3]

About sideboarding. Just ask. I think I've played nearly every possible match-up more than once and have had my share of high finishes. Also you got an entire board to help out.

Just ask about specific match-ups. Because otherwise there's going to be a massive wall of text. Tbh I don't rrally like your sideboard. But I'll explain when I am not on my phone and gone from my work.

Thank you for your interest. As I've said it's almost 2 years since I've played reanimator so the side may be "off target". How do your side look like?

I'm interested in how to side against Canadian RUG, Maverick (with deathrite) and stoneblade, but more in general I would like to know how many cards this deck can afford to side out before diluting the strategy too much.

Thank you again for your help!

[kingtk3]

kingtk3, Griselbrand > Jin-Gitaxias so I'd recommend it as 4-of. +14 at instant speed is good against combo, or are you expecting alot of GriselB mirror?

To those SBing 2x Crippling Fatigue nowadays, how is it better than Chain of Vapor as a catch-all and Submerge?

I agree that Griselbrand is better the Jin, but there may be cases in which it's not possible to pay life for draw cards, though it may be a fringe case. Chain of vapor and Submerge are better cards than crippling fatigue, but the latter can be tutored with entomb and kills thalia and deathrite.

[Worldslayer]

To those SBing 2x Crippling Fatigue nowadays, how is it better than Chain of Vapor as a catch-all and Submerge?

The Fatigues were in there specifically for older iterations of Esper Deathblade, as it basically removed any and all pressure or board position they could muster and gave you almost limitless time to do something relevant. With their recent change in focus to Geist of St. Traft, it's a card I'd run at most one of. Currently I'm not planning on playing any at Worcester.

[Zombie]

Please stop playing Elesh Norn, she's seriously bad. Play Iona naming Blue instead, we all know Blue is the best color in the game.

Sincerely, Elves.

[practical joke]

Please stop playing Elesh Norn, she's seriously bad. Play Iona naming Blue instead, we all know Blue is the best color in the game.

Sincerely, Elves.

wut...

I can't remember ever casting elesh norn against elves, seemed to be overkill.

On another note, decent sideboards cards for petal reanimate lists:

Nature's claim,
Divert,
generic GY hate,
Chain of vapor,
echoing truth,
abrupt decay,
xantid swarm,
spell pierce,
more generic discard,
more silver bullets.

I'm not saying these are all the cards that are good for the deck, but I rather avoid Show and Tells added in my sideboard due to the 3 mana cost, I'd rather rely on the maincards and the speed of the deck while bursting through hate. I've never been really affraid of gy hate in general.
I'm not saying it's a bad sideboard card, I just prefer NOT to play it.

I'm also quite oldschool with my favorite creatures though, but that could be because I haven't played this deck on a tournament for quite a few years. I still have had a lot of practise with the deck and a lot matches played. just not on tournaments, which I've skipped a lot, but slowly going to pick up on those as well.

[kingtk3]

Please stop playing Elesh Norn, she's seriously bad. Play Iona naming Blue instead, we all know Blue is the best color in the game.

Sincerely, Elves.

Hahaha, I'll have to remember :wink:

I've played in my lgs a couple of days ago, there were 20 people. My list was this (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=735027#post735027) with empyrial archangel in side.
Here's a mini report:

Round 1 vs Death and Taxes:
G1 - griselbrand on turn 1 with petal + study + reanimate. He didn't find an out in time.
G2 - Griselbrand on turn 2 follwed by needle on karakas, needle on mangara and elesh norn.
Side -1 Jin +1 empyrial
1 - 0

Round 2 vs jund
G1 - jin on turn 2 with counter for the spell he'll play on his turn.
G2 - Gris on turn 2 but he plays liliana on the following turn and already has a goyf in play. I risk drawing 7 cards looking for a fow, didn't find any and goyf kiils me.
G3 - Griselbrand on turn 2 via show and tell
Side -1 reanimate, -1 animate dead, -1 carfeul study, -2 duress, +2 show and tell, +3 pithing needle (for deathrite)
2 - 0

Round 3 vs elves
G1 - griselbrand on turn 2, too fast for him as I already have some disruption
G2 - not knowing his list (he didn't play deathrite nor bayou before) I side only the crippling fatigues. He plays deathrite on turn 1 and ooze on turn 2. I manage to kiil the ooze but didn't find anymore action before he kills me slowly.
G3 - Here I make 2 BIG errors. First of all I fetch Griselbrand with entomb while I should have choose Elesh or Iona since he had only a deathrite in play and there was a needle naming it. Second when I exhume Griselbrand I pass the turn while I should have immediately draw 7 cards since I had S&T in hand. I lost because next turn he plays glimpse and in my 7 there wasn't fow but Iona... lesson learned
Side -1 reanimate, -1 animate dead, -1 carfeul study, -2 duress, -1 Jin, +2 show and tell, +3 pithing needle (for deathrite), +1 blazing archon
2 - 1

Round 4 vs high tide
G1 - My first 7 where fow, 2 lands, entomb and 3 cantrips. This game was very long, my entomb gets double countered and I played a total of 8 cantrips (reshuffling after each brainstorm) without finding any action. I concede after the second spiral.
G2 - first turn carefull discarding jin, second turn duress + reanimate with counter backup.
G3 - I entomb at the end of his second turn and he counters. In my main I play a second entomb which he tries to counter but I have misdirection for backup. I fetch Iona and reanimate her.
Side -1 tidespout, -1 elesh, -2 show and tell, +2 misdirection, +2 flusterstorm
3 - 1

Round 5 vs UWr tempo
ID
3 - 1 - 1

Top 8
Quarterfinals vs WBg rockstyle
G1 - I exhum Jin on second turn while he has a confidant in play. On his turn he tries to stp Jin but I have Fow. Griselbrand follows two turns after.
G2 - I have a God hand: petal, underground sea, reanimate, entomb, fow, ponder, needle. He thoughtseize me on turn 1 but I fow; on my turn I draw a land and play entomb -> iona the reanimate her naming white. On his second turn He didn't play anything and on my turn I play needle blind-naming liliana.
Side -1 reanimate, -1 animate dead, -1 carfeul study, -2 duress, +2 show and tell, +3 pithing needle

Semifinals vs Jund
G1 - He win the roll and play first turn deathrite. On my turn I play duress: he has liliana, deathrite, 2 hymns and a land. I discard liliana and make a consideration on how hymn is terrible against reanimator since it put creatures in the grave speeding my clock. He seems to agree since he plays the second shaman leaving G open. In my second turn I play land, petal, S&T -> griselbrand :tongue:
G2 - I didn't find action soon and at some point he has 3 shaman and 2 confidant in play and a surgical in hand. I have in play a needle naming shaman and I'm at 6 with griselbrand and elesh in the grave; I brainstorm seeing an exhume and play it. He wisely choose to remove elesh so I get griselbrand in play. On his turn he reveals broodbraid elf and something else, putting him at 13. The elf reveals a thoughtseize and he doesn't attack. I attack, now I'm at 13 and he's at 6. On his turn he reveals liliana and pulse. I was very lucky this time :smile:
Side -1 reanimate, -1 animate dead, -1 carfeul study, -2 duress, +2 show and tell, +3 pithing needle

Finals vs Waterfall (a friend of mine playing my deck)
We split and go home with a fow and an altered jace

The deck felt strong and my loss against elves was my mistake. I echo Worldslayer's words: deathrite it's not a big problem and we have tools in side to fight it. The side worked except for the crippling fatigues which were too slow, I maybe replace them with massacre or some other bounce and a counter.

[roflwaffles]

How well did the singleton Personal Tutor treat you? Worth the loss of disruption from a Thoughtseize slot?

[kingtk3]

How well did the singleton Personal Tutor treat you? Worth the loss of disruption from a Thoughtseize slot?

Personal Tutor was excellent and I've never missed the additional discard, as it basically conts as a discard as well. Reanimator is a combo deck, and a quite fast one, so the most of the time I don't want to lose a turn casting thoughtseize or duress when I can prepare the combo.

The matchups against which I want to duress before going for the combo are against control (because I want to make sure they don't have counters) and against faster or equal combo decks (like belcher, TES or Hypergenesis). Against control decks I can personal tutor for discard and safely wait a turn since they are not fast, while against some combo decks is better to have discard immediately.

However Personal tutor finds you literally any combo piece apart entomb, helps you finding hate after side (massacre, S&T) and can even be used to fetch a ponder if you are in a bad situation.
On top of that it's blue ;)

Admittedly if you are in top deck mode and have only a turn it's awful, but that's the same for any discard.

I defenitely prefer the flexibility it offers over the advantage the discard gives against some combo decks.

[kingtk3]

How is the Canadian thresh matchup? What is the plan for the side?
I'm planning to bring this deck to a 40 people event and, since I don't have experience with the RUG matchup I would like some advices.

Thank you in advance!!!

[Justin]

How is the Canadian thresh matchup? What is the plan for the side?
I'm planning to bring this deck to a 40 people event and, since I don't have experience with the RUG matchup I would like some advices.

Thank you in advance!!!

Game 1 is pretty close, with Reanimator probably being a slight favorite. Can Thresh usually has no maindeck graveyard hate (although some versions run GSZ for Scavenging Ooze, but you don't see a whole lot of DRS). They do have a lot of countermagic. Make sure that you don't walk into Daze and also be aware of Spell Pierce if they have a mana open. They've got a fairly slow clock, especially if they can't stick a turn one Delver, so you can often wait a turn to go off so that you can pay for Daze, etc.

Games 2 and 3 get trickier. If they have significant graveyard hate in their sideboard, you become an underdog in this matchup. You might consider bringing in any additional countermagic from your sideboard. Bounce might help as well.

[kingtk3]

Game 1 is pretty close, with Reanimator probably being a slight favorite. Can Thresh usually has no maindeck graveyard hate (although some versions run GSZ for Scavenging Ooze, but you don't see a whole lot of DRS). They do have a lot of countermagic. Make sure that you don't walk into Daze and also be aware of Spell Pierce if they have a mana open. They've got a fairly slow clock, especially if they can't stick a turn one Delver, so you can often wait a turn to go off so that you can pay for Daze, etc.

Games 2 and 3 get trickier. If they have significant graveyard hate in their sideboard, you become an underdog in this matchup. You might consider bringing in any additional countermagic from your sideboard. Bounce might help as well.

So Game1 is about playing around their taxing, since their only hard counter is force of will, and that much I've figuered out.

My problem is what to side in game2/3. Consider that at the moment my side is

3 Pithing Needle
1 empyreal archangel
1 blazing archon
2 Flusterstorm
2 Misdirection
1 echoing truth
1 Wipe Away
2 Massacre
2 Show and Tell

but I'm open to suggestion (the only things I wouldn't change are the needles), I have a couple of considerations:

if they bring in grave hate it should be logic for us to bring in more show and tell, but in that way it becomes more difficult to play around daze and spell pierce
so it may be wise to bring in additional countermagic, although flustestorm is not as good in protecting our spell than it is in countering opposing bombs and while misdirection eats card from hand as fow it may be better since it can misdirect surgical too

So let's say I opt for

+2 Misdirections
+2 flusterstorms (their still counters after all)
+1 empyrial archangel (seems better than Iona but I may be wrong)
-2 show and tell (difficult to cast through their tax)
-1 personal tutor (I don't want more card disadvantage in this matchup)
-1 iona
-1 animate dead (exhume is live against surgical with 2 creatures in the grave)

What do you think?

I may include more cards in the side but I wouldn't know what to side out: I found that I'm not confortable in siding out more than 4-5 cards since after that I feel that the deck become too diluted.

[Justin]

You also need to ask yourself, "What graveyard hate is CAN Thresh most likely to play in its sideboard?" You won't see Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void because they don't play white or black. You will most likely see Grafdigger's Cage, Relic of Progenitus, or Tormod's Crypt (or perhaps a combination of these). The CAN Thresh decks that finished first and second at the most recent Legacy SCG both opted for Cage.

Cage is a very problematic card for Reanimator because it shuts down all your reanimate spells and is a continuing effect, not something that they sac to exile your graveyard one time. For this reason, I think that boarding out Show and Tell might be a mistake. It's nice to have an alternative way to get your fatties onto the battlefield. Wipe Away is also a strong answer if they landed a Cage because of split second. You bounce it at the end of their turn and then try to reanimate on your turn.

[kingtk3]

I indeed forgot about cage... :frown:
My main is

4 lotus petal
4 underground sea
2 island
2 swamp
4 polluted delta
3 misty rainforest

4 entomb
4 brainstorm
4 reanimate
4 careful study
2 duress
4 ponder
1 personal tutor
1 animate dead
4 exhume
2 show and tell
4 force of will

1 elesh norn, grand cenobite
3 griselbrand
1 tidespout tyrant
1 iona, shield of emeria
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur

SIDE
3 Pithing Needle
1 empyreal archangel
1 blazing archon
2 Flusterstorm
2 Misdirection
1 echoing truth
1 Wipe Away
2 Massacre
2 Show and Tell

In the side the only thing I consider stable are the needles and, to a less extent, S&T, while the least useful card I think is massacre (which i put in to deal with Thalia and D&T most of all). I indeed would feel better with an additional bounce, so maybe I can switch a massacre with a chain of vapor or an additional echoing truth: that would leave a single massacre to fetch with personal tutor.

In game 2, before knowing what my opponent could side, I would do the following changes

+2 misdirection
+2 echoing truth/chain of vapor
+1 blazing archon (better than empyrial on a second thought)
-1 personal tutor
-1 jin (it's blue and they could side in REB)
-1 animate dead
-2 careful study (card disadvantage and if they bring in cage or tormod's they are not synergic with S&T)

In G3 I would side accordingly if the play istant grave hate (surgical) swapping the bounces with flusterstorm.

What do you think? You would play a different side or make different choices?

[Darksteel]

I've decided to give this deck another try, since it's always been one of my favorite decks. Seeing it put up results despite Deathrite Shaman being ubiquitous was definitely sweet to see and inspired me to get back to casting Entombs.

I'm currently using the list that got 2nd at the Philly Open:

4 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

4 Entomb
4 Careful Study

4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
2 Show and Tell

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize

4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp

I've been impressed with it so far. The sideboard is where I'm having some difficulty. I really don't care much for Crippling Fatigue, but it does kill Thalia and Deathrite and is tutor-able by Entomb. I guess I'll run them.

Any ideas on Karakas hate? With the new legend rule, we can no longer use our own Karakas to kill theirs. Pithing Needle seems like a good catchall against Karakas, Deathrite, Liliana of the Veil, and other permanents that hurt our deck. Any other thoughts?

[Worldslayer]

I've decided to give this deck another try, since it's always been one of my favorite decks. Seeing it put up results despite Deathrite Shaman being ubiquitous was definitely sweet to see and inspired me to get back to casting Entombs.

I'm currently using the list that got 2nd at the Philly Open:

4 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

4 Entomb
4 Careful Study

4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
2 Show and Tell

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize

4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp

I've been impressed with it so far. The sideboard is where I'm having some difficulty. I really don't care much for Crippling Fatigue, but it does kill Thalia and Deathrite and is tutor-able by Entomb. I guess I'll run them.

Any ideas on Karakas hate? With the new legend rule, we can no longer use our own Karakas to kill theirs. Pithing Needle seems like a good catchall against Karakas, Deathrite, Liliana of the Veil, and other permanents that hurt our deck. Any other thoughts?

Crippling Fatigue was slotted specifically for older versions of Deathblade (preGeist MD). If you run any, run 1. Do not run more than that, as they were/are largely unnecessary by the time I ran them as Deathblade had moved on. Should you see a resurgence of the DConf builds where Geist isn't MD, you might run 2.

Your plan against Karakas is the 4 Pithing Needles in your sideboard. Blade decks usually fold to Needle on Karakas and an animated Griselbrand with tight play, while Maverick usually wants you to Needle Karakas and animate either Griselbrand or (preferably) Iona on White. The latter is a much more difficult matchup than the former without practice. If you think the Flying Aces are showing up, get your games in now.

The third maindeck Show and Tell is better than Animate Dead right now. Cutting a reanimation spell sucks, but it turns on otherwise dead Abrupt Decays in a big way and saves a sideboard slot since you're now 3/1 instead of 2/2 on Show and Tell.

Some number of Scalding Tarn should actually be Bloodstained Mire. 2/1 either way. That was an oversight I made in Baltimore/Philly just because I'm used to playing base blue decks.

As always, Sideboards are tailored to metagames. I will say Blazing Archon has been overperforming for me lately out of the board, Blue Elemental Blasts have been solid though waning as Sneak and Show loses ground to Know and Tell, Wipe Away does work while Echoing Truth is only so-so, Massacre doesn't seem awful as Teeg isn't normally a high priority hate bear against us out of the white decks, Flusterstorms have been excellent at keeping me far ahead of the other degenerate Underground Sea decks, and I'm currently testing Defense Grid in the board against things like RUG Delver. The 4 Needles and 4th Show and Tell are pretty much the locked in 5 slots, with 10 to tailor to your personal expectations and strengths/weaknesses as a player in your specific metagame.

[Kirika]

Big question is with the changes to the legend rules is Karakas still worth running. You no longer can destroy opposing Karakas with your own so the reason to run it is to bounce legends in the reanimator mirror or against sneak and show. Seems that show and tell is moving more towards the Omniscience build with only 1 if any Emrakul main. Reanimator mirrors don't seem to be all that common either so leaning towards just cutting Karakas.

This is what I am looking at running with changes taking out the Karakas and taking out the Animate Dead for a Show and Tell

Acceleration (4)
4 Lotus Petal

Creatures [7]
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria.
1 Tidespout Tyrant

Dig (7)
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

Disruption (7)
4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize

Creature Dump (8)
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb

Reanimation (8+3 Show and Tell)
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
3 Show and Tell

Lands (16)
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Skalding Tarn (was Karakas)
1 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard (15)
1 Blazing Archon (aggro solution)
2 Engineered Explosives (cage, cheap creatures)
2 Echoing Truth (catch all to bounce trouble permanents. maybe should be wipe away but this costs 2 and can bounce goblins vs storm)
2 Flusterstorm (counter wars)
4 Pithing Needle (karakas, maze, etc) [was 2 and a Karakas + the second Show and Tell]
1 Show and Tell (dodge grave yard hate)
1 Terrastodon (kills ensaring bridge, maze, etc)
2 Vendilion Clique (clears counters and gives information, can not be spell peirced or fluster stormed)

Sideboard Choices
1 Blazing Archon
Show and tell Emrakul decks since it stops Emrakul from attacking and aggro decks with no removal like Goblins or Merfolk

2 Engineered Explosives
Answers alot of hate because it all costs 2, 1, or 0. Deathrite Shaman, Cage, Relic, Spellbomb, Tormod's Crypt etc all killed by Explosives.
Elves at 1 kills off Deathrite Shaman + alot of their elves.
Miracles at 2 gets rid of counterbalance + Rest in Peace.
Maverick at 2 kills Ooze, Goyf, Rest in Peace, Thalia.
RUG at 0 kill tormods + flipped delver, 1 mongeese, unfliped delver, cage, lavamancer
Sneak and Show kills Cage.
Storm/ belcher bye bye Goblins

2 Echoing Truth
Bounce for troublesome permanents. Added bonus can bounce all the Goblin Tokens vs Storm, Zombie Tokens vs Dredge and if there are multiple hate cards in play.

2 Flusterstorm
Wins counter wars enough said.

4 Pithing Needle
Your answer for Jace, Karakas, Liliana, Sensei's Divining Top, Sneak Attack and other problem permanents.

Show and Tell
The alternative plan to by pass graveyard hate.

Terrastodon
Your answer to Ensaring Bridge, Solitary Confinement etc.

Vendilion Clique
Great vs control after board when the load up on Spell Snares and Flusterstorms since this can't be countered by those. Maybe should be defense grid like WorldSlayer suggested.

Possibles
Defense Grid - versus counterspells might take vendilion clique's place.
Misdirection - more counters not sure if can support more pitch counters.
Surgical Extraction - Reanimator Mirrors + Dredge?? Fast Griselbrand/Elesh usually takes out dredge anyway. Reanimator Mirrors not that common.


@Dyvith
Only 14 lands seem very greedy. I was taking more mulligans then I would like with 15 lands + 1 karakas and 4 petals.

@kingtk3
Jin isn't worth running over Griselbrand. Slower clock, vulnerable to red blast and they have a window to kill him where with Griselbrand you can draw 7 in response to their kill spell.

How is Misdirection actually working out for you? Are there enough blue cards to support 6 pitch counters is my worry.

How much I really board out depends on the match up. Typically its something like 2-4 Careful Study, 0-1 Animate Dead 0-4 Reanimate, 0-4 Exhume, 0-4 Entomb, 0-2 creatures that are not relavent. Sometimes I board out 4-6 and on the other extreme I board in all 15 and take out all my reanimation spells in the Counter balance top with rest in peace match up. Show and Tells tend to get boarded in to fight graveyard hate.

RUG Tempo
-2 Careful Study, -1 Tidespout Tyrant (gets pyroblasted), -1 exhume
+1 Show and Tell, +2 Flusterstorm, 2 Engineered Explosives (yes it can get hit by stifle but it gets rid of cage, goose and possibly delver)

Maverick
-2 Careful Study, -2 Exhume, -1 Ponder
+2 Engineered Explosives, +3 Needle, +1 Show and Tell

Stoneblade
+1 Show and Tell, +3 Needle, +2 Engineered Explosives,
-2 Exhume, -2 Careful Study, -1 Entomb, -1 Reanimate,

@Worldslayer
I been running into the same conclusion that Animate dead is not very good. I find myself boarding out the Animate Dead in most match ups anyway since it is pretty vulnerable to getting destroyed so cutting it sounds like a good idea.

Have to try Defense Grid that is a really good suggestion.

[Stryfo]

Defense Grid seems really poor in this deck, unlike Sneak-Show and Omni-Tell, we can't just win once Griselbrand is resolved, and once he is resolved our opponent can do whatever during their own turn and we can't answer it, sure drawing 7 is still huge, but Griselbrand does much worse without the ability to counter spells.

[Kirika]

@Stryfo
Worldslayer was saying Defense Grid is for decks like RUG Delver where they don't really have a good way of removing Griselbrand but lots of counters. The challenge is actually sticking Griselbrand. If they have the delver + 2 bolts or 3 bolts to kill Griselbrand oh well. I haven't seen to many Delver decks run Dismember. I agree with you it is not good versus decks that can remove Griselbrand but those decks tend to run less counters. It is something I will have to test.

[Worldslayer]

@Stryfo
Worldslayer was saying Defense Grid is for decks like RUG Delver where they don't really have a good way of removing Griselbrand but lots of counters. The challenge is actually sticking Griselbrand. If they have the delver + 2 bolts or 3 bolts to kill Griselbrand oh well. I haven't seen to many Delver decks run Dismember. I agree with you it is not good versus decks that can remove Griselbrand but those decks tend to run less counters. It is something I will have to test.

Exactly for Delver/blue decks that can't beat a Griselbrand. All you have to do in the RUG matchup is actually resolve your spells. You very rarely have to counter theirs, because theirs are all terrible in comparison to ours.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Why does nobody play Gitaxian Probe? Its so good for your game plan and works even better game 2 and 3 to spot their SB cards. Is the fact that Thoughtseize hits creatures really wroth the 2 life loss? There are plenty pretty good alternatives for Thoughtseize out there, but a 0 mana cantrip that peeks your opponent is not replaceable.

[Stryfo]

Gitaxian probe isn't used because it does exactly nothing to advance our strategy, thoughtseize gives information, takes an important card, and in a pinch (rarely) can be used as a discard outlet. Information is nice, but not 100% necessary, also, if you want to add gitaxian probe, you have to cut a card, what would you cut?

[Darksteel]

Right, so there's a Legacy 1K this weekend and I'm gonna take Reanimator, since I really want to play a Griselbrand deck and this is looking like the best one.

I didn't notice your sig at first, Worldslayer, but now I realize that you were the one who got 2nd at SCG Philly. My bad. :P

Anyway, I believe the metagame will certainly be varied at this 1K so I can't really pinpoint decks to sideboard against.

Here's what I have so far for the board:

1 Show and Tell (3 in the maindeck)
4 Pithing Needle

Those are the guaranteed slots.

Here are the rest that I'm pretty sure I want to add:

2 Flusterstorm
1 Blazing Archon (Over Inkwell)
2 Echoing Truth
2 Massacre

Which leaves 3 slots.

I like the idea of Terastodon that Kirika described for handling random silly things that fringe decks like MUD or something can throw at you. Engineered Explosives also seems sweet, or Defense Grid. I don't know how much RUG there will be, but I think there's probably going to be more Stoneblade-style fair decks than RUG ones.

I'm curious at what you guys take out in Game 2 against the fair decks. I was thinking Force of Will since it's card disadvantage, but it's really lame not having any responses for removal. The other cards seem too integral for the deck.

[Kirika]

Went 50/50 at Star City Somerset. The biggest problem match ups seem to be Maverick and RUG Delver.

Maverick just has so many answers between Knight of the Reliquary getting Karakas and Maze of Ith. Swords to Plowshares. Linvala turning off your creature abilities like Griselbrand's draw 7. Scavenging Ooze. 4 Needles helps here. Engineered Explosives does work here and you can play it on 3 to kill Knight with a Lotus Petal.

RUG Delver is just a pain to resolve spells with Daze, Spell Peirce, Force Stifle while they have a decent clock with Delver and Goyf. I haven't actually drawn a Defense Grid when playing RUG Delver will need to find a RUG Delver player to playtest with.

Merfolk is similar annoying like delver but fewer counters with a faster clock and card advantage from standstills.

Dredge really is a race if you can get Elesh Norn out fast enough without having to use an Exhume which gives them a large Grave Troll. They can actually out race a turn 1 Griselbrand. :(

BUG really depends on the build but most aren't running Spell Peirce or Fluster storm because they are terrible to Cascade into so they have Shaman, discard and forces. Baleful Strix can wall you and Liliana is also annoying but not everyone runs Lilianas. Iona on black locks out Strix, Liliana and Pulse just have to watch out for Jace.

Omni Tell is probably your best match up. Iona on blue just wins. They can't show and tell for risk of you dropping an Iona on blue or a Griselbrand to draw into counters.

@Darksteel
My board at Starcity Sommerset was
1 Show and Tell
4 Pithing needle
2 Flusterstorm
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastodon
2 Wipe away
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Defense Grid

I ended up boarding in every card though out the 10 rounds.

I like Terastodon as the catch all that can blow up trouble permanents.

The uncounterability of Wipe Away is more relavent then being able to bounce multiple things of the same name of Echoing Truth if you are running Engineered Explosives.

How did you like Massacre? I haven't actually tried it because I prefer Engineered Explosives in that slot.

Engineered Explosives does work against alot of decks.

Defense Grid seems like its only for the Rug Delver and Merfolk Match ups so if you don't see those decks you can skip it.

I don't usually board out Force of Will even against fair decks as you need some way of protecting your creatures if your opponent has a way to kill them or force your spells through counters. I usually start with boarding out 2 Careful Study and 2 Reanimation Spells and maybe a creature that is not very good in a match up and go from there boarding out more reanimation / binning spells if I expect more hate and sometimes going fully to the Show and Tell plan. Sometimes board out a Ponder.

My brother likes Inkwell against control. Its good if you can get it out fast but it isn't too good at winning races if they get a threat out first.

[Darksteel]

Cool, thanks for the advice!

Here's what I'm going to run at the tournament later today:

4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
3 Show and Tell

4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm

4 Lotus Petal

4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp

And here's the sideboard, based off of Kirika's since I agree with the choices:

4 Pithing Needle
1 Show and Tell
2 Flusterstorm
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastodon
2 Engineered Explosives/Massacre
2 Wipe Away
2 Spell Pierce/Defense Grid

Massacre being free is great against the Thalia decks, since it kills her and other dorks for just 1 mana. It's nice to have against the Death and Taxes decks and can randomly help with things like Lingering Souls. Of course, EE does the same things but is better against the non-Plains decks. I'm honestly not sure which one to run, since I'm not entirely sure of the metagame. Explosive's versatility is leaning me a bit more in that direction, though.

I dunno how much RUG there'll be, so I may just run Spell Pierce over Grid.

[Koby]

I also bring in Massacre against SFM/Dark Confidant decks, since they can sometimes sit behind a counterwall or knock out your early plays with discard. The newer iterations may also run DRS so having more cheap/free removal is a big bonus. I run them in the SB of Tin Fins, and effectively I run into the same issues you guys are describing. I'm also not sure how useful Gaddock Teeg is to keep in vs any flavor of Reanimator, so there's not much worry on that front as well.

[Darksteel]

I ended up going with the Massacres instead of the EEs, mainly because of Massacre being free to cast.

I managed to get Top 4 in the tournament as well, though I attribute it mostly to lucky matchups, barring round 3:

Round 1: Jund (Win 2-0):

Game One: He mulled to 6 and I managed to Thoughtseize away his Dark Confidant turn one, leaving him with just 5 lands. I got ol' Grizz out next turn and won promptly after that, countering his Liliana of the Veil.

Game Two: I get the turn one Thoughtseize again, and he casts Surgical Extraction on my Marsh Flats in response to get some value out of it. Unfortunately, I was only running one so it was fairly useless. I got his Liliana of the Veil. Next turn, I get Griselbrand out and eventually get a Pithing Needle for future Lilianas and get there pretty quick.

Round 2: Omni-Tell (Win 2-1):

Game One: I couldn't get many combo pieces despite cantripping a lot, drawing pretty much only lands. I lost without playing any sort of cards that would signify I was Reanimator. He told me after the round that he put me on Storm. I had the Show and Tell in my hand, but I saw an Emrakul in his hand after Thoughtseize so I really couldn't play it, since I didn't even see a Griselbrand.

Game Two: He kept a slower hand for the deck, assuming that I was on Storm (Many counters). Thanks to Thoughtseize and Force of Will, as well as redundancy and his lack of graveyard hate, I manage to get out Iona and the game was over.

Game Three: He kept a land with City of Traitors as his only land, hoping his Gitaxian Probe would get him there. Sadly it didn't, and Iona on blue came out shortly after and got me the win.

Round 3: URb Young Pyromancer (Loss 0-2):

Game One: I Thoughtseize away a Delver of Secrets, but I have no answer for his Young Pyromancer which makes him quite a few tokens. He has the Force of Will for my Entomb. I do manage to get out Griselbrand, but he has Grim Lavamancer plus Dismember to take him out and I lose promptly afterward.

Game Two: He has Flusterstorm, Young Pyromancer, and three Cabal Therapies. My Entomb gets countered and I don't see any action, plus my hand gets ripped apart and I die shortly afterward to his Elementals.

Round 4: Junk Hexmage/Dark Depths (Win 2-0):

Game One: I get out the turn one Griselbrand with Entomb and Reanimate, and I get the Force of Will for his Vampire Hexmage to stop him from getting Marit Lage. Elesh Norn comes out as well and I kill him shortly afterward.

Game Two: Despite getting hit by multiple discard spells (Duress into Hymn into Liliana of the Veil) I manage to get out Griselbrand thanks to Lotus Petal. I get the Pithing Needle for Liliana of the Veil, and let him make his Marit Lage token, only to bounce it with Tidespout Tyrant. I start bouncing his permanents and the game is over pretty soon.

Round 5: Friend scooped to me because I got paired down and he had pretty much no chance of making Top 8. Regardless, he was on Stoneblade which isn't that bad of a matchup, right?

Round 6: ID into top 8. It's my friend Jon who's on Death and Taxes (And got 2nd at SCG Somerset). We play for fun and I actually won best 2 out of 3. Tidespout Tyrant is insane.

Top 8 Round 1: Stoneblade

Game One: This game ended up being pretty long. I get out a quick Griselbrand, and draw a casual 14 cards when he gets Swords to Plowshare'd, but fail to hit a Force of Will. In fact I drew like, all lands and no reanimation spells which was pretty lame. He gets down Bitterblossom and starts making Faerie Rogues to block. I get Elesh Norn, but she also ends up getting StP'd thanks to Snapcaster Mage. He never hits his second blue source for his Jace, and I manage to get out Griselbrand, Tidespout, and Iona on Blue to his tokens, Mutavault, Restoration Angel, and Stoneforge. He eventually concedes, though it was probably premature on his part.

Game Two: He gets out Bitterblossom, but I manage to take his Force of Will with my Thoughtseize. From there, I reanimate Griselbrand with no trouble and have the Massacre when he plays his Stoneforge Mystic. I then get out Elesh Norn and the game's pretty much over.

The rest of the Top 4 and I ended up splitting the $800 in store credit four ways. I used mine to get an Underground Sea for EDH, so that was pretty sweet.

Overall, it was a good day and I know that lucky matchups were a factor for sure, but the deck is still awesome as hell and I'm glad I decided to play it.

Thanks, guys, for all of the advice. It really helped. (:

[Einherjer]

Top8ed a 27 man tournament with this list:

Beating: TES, Elves, Death and Taxes
Lost against: ANT
Drew with: Miracles

Lost to Deathblade in Top8.





4 Underground Sea

4 Polluted Delta

3 Verdant Catacombs

2 Misty Rainforest

2 Island

2 Swamp

4 Entomb

4 Careful Study

2 Thoughtseize

4 Reanimate

4 Exhume

2 Animate Dead

4 Brainstorm

3 Ponder

4 Force of Will

4 Daze

4 Griselbrand

1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

1 Empyrial Archangel

1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

//Sideboard

4 Pithing Needle

4 Show and Tell

4 Flusterstorm

2 City of Tratiors

1 Angel of Despair



Greetings

[feline]

Dustin Penn 3rd Place of 302 at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 8/4/2013

Creatures (7)
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Lands (17)
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
Spells (36)
4 Lotus Petal
1 Animate Dead
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
1 Ponder
4 Reanimate
2 Show and Tell
2 Thoughtseize

Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
1 Angel of Despair
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Flusterstorm
2 Misdirection
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Show and Tell
2 Thoughtseize

After the semifinals match I asked if he visited The Source, & told him he'd get noted on the reanimator archetype for the top 8 finish like all the others.

[clashed]

So, as a relatively new pilot to the reanimator archetype, I've been going even with the deck at my local lgs. I'm feeling a splash of hate from omnitell's show and tell. A lot of people are boarding venser's, o-ring, etc. Is there an alternative to show and tell?

[kingtk3]

Given the high count of sorceries and instants some players tried to side in delver of secrets, but I've never tried it myself.

In G 2 and 3 we have two lines of play: reanimating and S&T. That leads the opponenent to choose what hate to play, or if both to have the right one at the right moment which is not a simple task. I often find that I can play around the opponent hate, and if I'm scared of opponent removal I side in a shroud guy (usually empyrial).

[Kirika]

Looks like recent top lists have been running more lands with 17 as opposed to 15. 15 I think is a bit to low making for mulliganing more often then I would like. Currently running 16 lands and 4 petals and that seems about right. You don't want too many lands to flood out but you don't want to have no lands and have to take a mulligan. Reanimator actually mulligans fairly well but you still don't want to be land light. What do other people think on the Land count.

Other question is are 2 Daze worth running over the 3rd Thoughtseize and the 3rd of 4th Ponder?

My opinion on Daze is its great if your opponent doesn't know you have it or on turn 1-2 but quickly loses value after that. Daze can help you resolve spells if you go off quickly on the first few turns but it usually doesn't save your Griselbrand from getting Swords to Plowshares. Almost always gets sideboarded out when I did run Daze.

Thoughtseizes are good to get information and discard their biggest threat or in a pinch you can discard your own creature to reanimate. 3 has been a good number of them since you want to see one but don't really want to see two or more because the life loss can be pretty relevant. Ponder helps you dig for the combo if you don't have it or for protection so is nice to have.

@Koby
Will have to test out Massacre but I do really like Engineered Explosives as a catch all which just happens to kill small creatures pretty well. Massacre is free but Explosives gets rid of things like Chalice on 1, Deathrite Shaman, Ground Seal, Pithing Needle on Griselbrand, Rest in Peace.

@clashed
Show and Tell is the back up plan if they have graveyard hate. A shroud creature like Inkwell Leviathan or Empyrical Archangel might be good to add to the sideboard if your opponents are playing many Oblivion Rings or Vensers.

@knightk3
What match ups would you want to sideboard in Delver of Secrets? Seems fragile and not what you want to be doing since the whole game plan is to cheat big creature into play.

How much removal issues have you run into that you sideboard Empyrial Archangel? Griselbrand to draw into Force of Will or Iona on color of their removal are decent answers to removal. I can see it against Maverick but if they get out more than 8 power they can just kill it that way.

[jcsy]

Looks like recent top lists have been running more lands with 17 as opposed to 15. 15 I think is a bit to low making for mulliganing more often then I would like. Currently running 16 lands and 4 petals and that seems about right. You don't want too many lands to flood out but you don't want to have no lands and have to take a mulligan. Reanimator actually mulligans fairly well but you still don't want to be land light. What do other people think on the Land count.

Other question is are 2 Daze worth running over the 3rd Thoughtseize and the 3rd of 4th Ponder?

My opinion on Daze is its great if your opponent doesn't know you have it or on turn 1-2 but quickly loses value after that. Daze can help you resolve spells if you go off quickly on the first few turns but it usually doesn't save your Griselbrand from getting Swords to Plowshares. Almost always gets sideboarded out when I did run Daze.

Thoughtseizes are good to get information and discard their biggest threat or in a pinch you can discard your own creature to reanimate. 3 has been a good number of them since you want to see one but don't really want to see two or more because the life loss can be pretty relevant. Ponder helps you dig for the combo if you don't have it or for protection so is nice to have.

@Koby
Will have to test out Massacre but I do really like Engineered Explosives as a catch all which just happens to kill small creatures pretty well. Massacre is free but Explosives gets rid of things like Chalice on 1, Deathrite Shaman, Ground Seal, Pithing Needle on Griselbrand, Rest in Peace.

@clashed
Show and Tell is the back up plan if they have graveyard hate. A shroud creature like Inkwell Leviathan or Empyrical Archangel might be good to add to the sideboard if your opponents are playing many Oblivion Rings or Vensers.

@knightk3
What match ups would you want to sideboard in Delver of Secrets? Seems fragile and not what you want to be doing since the whole game plan is to cheat big creature into play.

How much removal issues have you run into that you sideboard Empyrial Archangel? Griselbrand to draw into Force of Will or Iona on color of their removal are decent answers to removal. I can see it against Maverick but if they get out more than 8 power they can just kill it that way.

anybody tested "free" counter spells to replace Daze, for example;
Foil

due to the draw of Griselbrand, 7 cards will usually net you a free counter

This nets you a discard (Big Fatty) and island (we don't have many of these though sadly)
Before drawing 7, it can be used aggressively
After drawing 7, it can be used as extra protection

I really hate Daze even with the speed on T1 and T2 and just throwing some ideas

[Rampart]

anybody tested "free" counter spells to replace Daze, for example;
Foil

due to the draw of Griselbrand, 7 cards will usually net you a free counter

This nets you a discard (Big Fatty) and island (we don't have many of these though sadly)
Before drawing 7, it can be used aggressively
After drawing 7, it can be used as extra protection

I really hate Daze even with the speed on T1 and T2 and just throwing some ideas


I have completely cut daze from list and haven't looked back. I am not sure about Foil though, it seems a little too conditional and is a little too steep to play for free. Have you thought about main decking a misdirection instead?

[jcsy]

I have completely cut daze from list and haven't looked back. I am not sure about Foil though, it seems a little too conditional and is a little too steep to play for free. Have you thought about main decking a misdirection instead?

misdirection might just be a diversion spell, rather than a hard counter

i have them but havent tried them to see how well they perform, Misdirection

[Einherjer]

You.... you hate Daze..... what is wrong with you, my friend. Daze is one of this deck's biggest strengths! Comboing fast with 8 live counters. How can you hate Daze, I wonder? One of us might be playing the deck in a wrong way, to be honest.

Greetings

[kingtk3]

...
@knightk3
What match ups would you want to sideboard in Delver of Secrets? Seems fragile and not what you want to be doing since the whole game plan is to cheat big creature into play.

How much removal issues have you run into that you sideboard Empyrial Archangel? Griselbrand to draw into Force of Will or Iona on color of their removal are decent answers to removal. I can see it against Maverick but if they get out more than 8 power they can just kill it that way.

As I said, I've never tested delver in reanimator but I've seen someone playing in their side, so I can't tell you in what matchup actually matters.

Regarding archangel: griselbrand doesn't always find you a fow while iona may be raced if you reanimated her with reanimate and doesn't prevent multiple color removal (StP and Jace for example). Archangel solves these problems.

I actually don't play dazes since I'm running thougthseizes and personal tutor, but I was planning to test them since only 4 fow seems light on the counter side, maybe in a split with thoughtseize.

[Worldslayer]

You.... you hate Daze..... what is wrong with you, my friend. Daze is one of this deck's biggest strengths! Comboing fast with 8 live counters. How can you hate Daze, I wonder? One of us might be playing the deck in a wrong way, to be honest.

Greetings


Not so sure. 0 Daze has been treating me pretty well so far.

Now if the meta ever becomes like 175% RUG Delver again and causes us to want more free early interaction, we'll talk. Briefly.




Also, guys: despite my pretty abyssal performance in Baltimore, I did have something to (re?)share with the class:

Grave Titan has been doing a LOT of work for me, and has made my game 1 versus Karakas decks miles better.


Thought I'd pass it along to anyone still on The Graveyard Shift.

[ryscott85]

Hey,

I'm new to this deck, so bear with me if these are dumb questions. Is there a reason no one plays It That Betrays somewhere in their 75? A turn one or two 11 doesn't seem too bad. Also, same question for empyrial archangel? I know most lists auto run 4 griselbrand, Iona, elish norn and tradespout tyrant, and I get the importance of each one. I also noticed most sideboards run at least one inkwell and or one blazing... but empyrial seems strong as well and I haven't seen it in most of the newer lists. It seems strong since it isn't legendary, and has shroud. Also would disfigure or two be feasible due to all of the death rites out there, or is it not needed due to pithing needles? Thanks!

[theBloody]

ryscott85: You want to win the game, not do cute things. That is the reason why you aren't play creatures like It That Betrays. I can't think of scenario where I want ITB instead of other creatures (Griselbrand, Elesh, Tyrant, Iona). Two years ago I played Empyrial agains Zoo, because there were no Griselbrand and I needed life protection and StP protection. Nowadays Griselbrand do the job.

[kingtk3]

However sometimes an hexproof creature is needed (against decks with tons of removal). I prefer the archangel over the leviathan because while the latter provides a clock one turn faster, the former is better at racing.

That it betrays, however, doesn't accomplish any useful role for this deck, and it's not impossible to handle: one time I was playing MUD and my opponent reanimated that it betrays on turn 2. I still won via wurmcoil and tight plays.

[Rampart]

Also would disfigure or two be feasible due to all of the death rites out there, or is it not needed due to pithing needles? Thanks!

Most people are using Pithing Needle and extra Show and Tells out of there board to handle deathrite. I have been running two Darkblasts out of my board as well to handle Death and Taxes, Goblins, Elves, etc and they have bee great mopping up the little guys if you are looking for a card to kill small creatures. Also the dredge helps as an enabler.

[Kirika]

@jcsy
I think you would run Misdirection before you would run Foil. 3 for 1s are just bad. Misdirection is limited to being used in counter wars and if there is another target to change the target of the spell to which means if you want to save Griselbrand they have another creature on the board. I like Flusterstorm to win counter wars but that requires mana to cast.

I also cut Daze as I side them out every game and you don't even always have the island to use it since sometimes you fetch for a Swamp to avoid wasteland sometimes.

@Kingtk3
Archangel probably is worth looking at running over Inkwell with all the decks packing Karakas and Swords to Plowshares.

@Worldslayer
Grave Titan sounds like a great idea but what did you end up cutting for the Grave Titan out of the main deck?

Ponder or the dare I say the 4th Griselbrand. I can't see cutting any of the other targets. Iona is the win against mono color decks like Mono blue Show and Know, mono red burn, mono black pox. Elesh is necessary to beat dredge and good against small creature decks like Elves and Goblins. Tidespout is the catch all to bounce things like Ensaring Bridge that you would otherwise lose to.

@ryscott85
It that Betrays doesn't really do anything until you swing with it. Griselbrand can draws you cards. Iona locks them out of a color. Elesh kills all their weenies. Tidespout bounces problem permanents. Empyrial Archangel stops them from damaging you unless they have 8 or more power on the field.

I don't really think Difigure is worth running. You can Needle shaman or get around it by playing Show and Tell. Engineered Explosives also kills Deathrite Shaman along with many other problem permanents.

@Rampart
Not sure that Darkblast is what I want to be running assuming the opponent will be boarding in graveyard hate against me.

[Zilong]

personelly i like Grave Titan and i have play it in GP Starsbourg too
it's a strong weapon against Liliana regardless of 3 or 4 counters on it
in the mid-game or top deck mode, it can be hardcast with petal.
Grave Titan + Eleshnorn are very fun to play ^^
and i can also use my DIY tokens

i prefer 8 creatures main deck, 4 (or 3) Grisel, 1 Iona, 1 Tyrant, 1 Elesh Norn and 1 (or 2) meta slot (now i chose Grave Titan)

this is a photo take on 23/08 a local tounament
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1234881_608763599147092_1805186558_n.jpg

[Kirika]

Looking at running this for Star City Phily.

Gonna give Grave Titan a try cutting a Ponder.

Acceleration (4)
4 Lotus Petal

Creatures [8]
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Grave Titan
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria.
1 Tidespout Tyrant

Dig (6)
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder

Disruption (7)
4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize

Creature Dump (8)
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb

Reanimation (8+3 Show and Tell)
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
3 Show and Tell

Lands (16)
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Skalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard (15)
1 Blazing Archon (fast aggro with little removal)
2 Defense Grid (delver with lots of counters/tax spells)
1 Empyrial Archangel (karakas decks)
2 Engineered Explosives (catch all, kills goblin tokens, deathrite, cage etc)
2 Flusterstorm (counters, storm)
3 Pithing Needle (Karakas, Jace, etc)
1 Show and Tell (grave yard hate)
1 Terrastodon (kills ensaring bridge etc)
2 Wipe Away (bounces counterbalance or whatever)

[bLInd12]

hey guys, any thoughts on Theros new creature Ashen Rider?

4CWWBB

Flying 5/5
Whenever Ashen Rider enters the battlefield or dies, exile target permanent.

[kingtk3]

It surely is an improvement of Angel of despair, but not a great one for this deck since we don't have a way to sacrifice creature in order to maximize the value of this card

[Justin]

One copy of Ashen Rider should go somewhere in the 75. It deals with problem permanents better than Angel by exiling them. That alone makes it an upgrade. Using it's ability again when it dies is just gravy.

[blindspotxxx]

You can use it as a blocker and it will kill that tarmogoyf. Still it is a good upgrade!

[kingtk3]

I think it just depends if you are running Angel of despair: if you do then Ashen Rider is an automatic update, if you don't then I don't think the improvement would suffice to warrant a spot if angel didn't make the cut.

@blindspotxxx: I doubt the rider will be played maindeck, and if you keep in side it would be against decks with S&T or some troublesome permanents like ensaring bridge, not against Goyf decks ;)

[jcsy]

I think it just depends if you are running Angel of despair: if you do then Ashen Rider is an automatic update, if you don't then I don't think the improvement would suffice to warrant a spot if angel didn't make the cut.

@blindspotxxx: I doubt the rider will be played maindeck, and if you keep in side it would be against decks with S&T or some troublesome permanents like ensaring bridge, not against Goyf decks ;)

sometimes u could AOD their goyf and reanimate instead ^_^ :D

now u cant thru exile... ugh

[aljiichiban]

sometimes u could AOD their goyf and reanimate instead ^_^ :D

now u cant thru exile... ugh

I think there's no need to reanimate a goyf since we have better bombs than a deck that has goyf.

[Kirika]

Didn't actually make it to Star City Phily :( Should be at the Top Deck Games event Sept 28th though.

Shawn Tappen who also plays at Top Deck Games made top 2 at Star City Phily playing the following list.

Reanimator
Shawn Tappen
2nd Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 9/8/2013
Legacy
Creatures (7)
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Lands (15)
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
Spells (39)
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
3 Ponder
4 Reanimate
2 Show and Tell
2 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
3 Pithing Needle
1 Sundering Titan
1 Angel of Despair
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Misdirection
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Duress
2 Show and Tell

Will have to talk to Shawn next time I see him and ask him about the Daze performance. I cut Daze while ago because it loses value beyond the first few turns of the game and isn't very good once your opponent knows you have it.

Reanimator
Josh Rhoades
11th Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 9/8/2013
Legacy

Creatures (8)

1 Grave Titan
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Lands (15)

2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea

Spells (37)

4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
3 Ponder
4 Reanimate
3 Show and Tell
3 Thoughtseize

Sideboard
2 Defense Grid
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Pithing Needle
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastodon
1 Echoing Truth
2 Spell Pierce
1 Wipe Away
1 Show and Tell
1 Thoughtseize

@kingtk3
Dunno about Ashen Rider. The exile is nice but it does cost 1 more life to reanimate then Angel of Despair. It getting a second permanent when dying is nice against Emrakul.

I always prefered Terastodon to Angel of Despair. It does leave behind 3/3 elephants but it can get rid of more then 1 problem permanent and you can blow up your own land for Elephants. Also Terastodon does not die to Dismember which some Delver and other decks are running.

[blindspotxxx]

I think it just depends if you are running Angel of despair: if you do then Ashen Rider is an automatic update, if you don't then I don't think the improvement would suffice to warrant a spot if angel didn't make the cut.

@blindspotxxx: I doubt the rider will be played maindeck, and if you keep in side it would be against decks with S&T or some troublesome permanents like ensaring bridge, not against Goyf decks ;)

It's just an Example. It will probably sided against Maverick to kill the Karakas then block a huge KOTR? Anyway, it's a direct upgrade

[5doorfury]

My meta is flooded with Death and Taxes right now. Any thoughts on the best way to approach it? I'm playing the standard creature suite and the only real way to win game one is on Tidespout tyrant and a bunch of protection. Any good ideas on how to hedge against this deck? Empyrial Arcangel seems like a start.

Thanks in advance!

[clashed]

Playing in tournament practice against the no-land dredge (phantasmagorian deck), the best and easiest win isn't to get elesh norn, it's to revive their balustrade spy and kill them on their draw step. Hopefully you guys can use this trick


My meta is flooded with Death and Taxes right now. Any thoughts on the best way to approach it? I'm playing the standard creature suite and the only real way to win game one is on Tidespout tyrant and a bunch of protection. Any good ideas on how to hedge against this deck? Empyrial Arcangel seems like a start.

Thanks in advance!

Iona on white if they don't have vial and karakas. Otherwise, go for griselbrand -> draw 7-> lotus petal-> 2nd creature. Against D n T, you generally need to resolve multiple threats unless they draw poorly.

[Esper3k]

Pithing Needles are key for dealing with Karakas, imo since we can't use our own to nuke theirs anymore.

Non-legendary big guys from the board are also important, such as Sphinx of the Steel Wind or Blazing Archon. Sadly, nothing really hoses them completely + is immune to StP or Karakas so we just have to kind of hope they don't have StP or we have a Force.

[MountainGo]

Non-legendary big guys from the board are also important, such as Sphinx of the Steel Wind or Blazing Archon. Sadly, nothing really hoses them completely + is immune to StP or Karakas so we just have to kind of hope they don't have StP or we have a Force.
Empyrial Archangel should work here, has shroud and it races very well

[slave]

Playing in tournament practice against the no-land dredge (phantasmagorian deck), the best and easiest win isn't to get elesh norn, it's to revive their balustrade spy and kill them on their draw step. Hopefully you guys can use this trick.

Great if they're running Spy. It is a sub-optimal list though.
I run Manaless quite often, one of my fave decks > The best list runs Griselbrand though, so I would want to test against that.

[kingtk3]

Report time!!! I've attended to a 71 man event last sunday in Senigallia. I'll first list the deck, then the report and I'll reserve my consideration for the particular matches at the end.

MAIN DECK
4 lotus petal
3 griselbrand
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 iona, shield of emeria
1 tidespout tyrant
1 elesh norn, grand cenobite
1 grave titan
4 entomb
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 underground sea
2 island
2 swamp
4 polluted delta
3 misty rainforest
4 reanimate
4 exhume
4 careful study
3 thoughtseize
3 ponder
3 show and tell

SIDEBOARD
4 Pithing Needle
1 empyrial archangel
1 blazing archon
2 Flusterstorm
2 defense grid
2 Wipe Away
2 engineered explosives
1 Show and Tell


Round 1 VS RW aggro
I was paired against a legacy newcomer, in fact his deck was a porting from modern (as he explained to me) spotting Stp, humans, hellriders and so on. Poor thing he will understand the differenc between the two formats in the hard way.
G1: T1 thoughtseize (discarding his Stp), T2 griselbrand, T3 Iona, GG
G2: T2 Griselbrand, T3 Elesh-norn, GG
Props for my opponent which doesn't get mad but instead asks me more about the etenal format!!!
1-0

Round 2 VS Canadian threshold
G1: he has force of will, spell pierce and daze for my gas while I don't draw lands. A mongoose seals the game
Side: +2 defense grid (I don't mind his threats since mine are bigger), +2 engineered explosive (is a catch all against creatures and permanent grave hate like cage), -3 show and tell (works bad against mana denial and he's very likely to side in REBs), -1 Jin (he's not that big and REB is a thing)
G2: petal->study discarding griselbrand (which was in my starting 7) -> swamp -> reanimate; he conceides
G3: he mulls to 5 and I have a hand without all the pieces but with double defense grid, entomb and a cantrip. The first grid get countered but the second sticks while I'm under the attacks of 2 mongooses. At this point I entomb and exhume griselbrand followed next turn by iona. GG
2-0

Round 3 VS Omni-dream by Diego (my fellow in team)
G1: he mulls to 6 but I don't remember if I go first or not. In my first turn I entomb in his EOT and he let it resolve; I obviously fetch Iona and on my second turn I attemp to exhume with fow backup but he has 2 fow. Having used so many cards I was confident that he will not go off. On my third turn I reanimate Iona on blue: GG.
Side: +2 flusterstorm, +2 wipe away (hopefully to bounce omniscence in response to a cantrip), -3 S&T (not a good idea...), -1 Elesh-norn
G2: he goes land->ponder, I lay a fetch and pass. He drops another land and in his eot I entomb for Iona which I exhume on my turn. He told me that he had a turn 3 hand but without counters.
At the end of the match I explain him that he has to counter entomb because I then will have 8 ways to reanimate opposed to only 4 tutor.
3-0

Round 4 VS Canadian Threshold
G1: I reanimate elesh-norn on turn 2 and attack him to death while he struggles with shrinked mongooses and goyfs
Side: +2 defense grid, +2 engineered explosive, -3 show and tell (in fear his mana denial plan), -1 Jin (dies to REB and it's not a reasonable clock with goyf)
G2: I made 2 misplays here not trying to Fow his stifle to my second turn fetch and not countering his scavenging ooze late in the game. I don't know what happened but I was like out of my mind and deserved to lose.
G3: I open with thoughtseize but I don't remember what I pitch, only that he's left with a daze, some fetches and 2 ponders. I have 2 ponders too, but his are surely better because I don't find anything for the rest of the game and get stomped by 2 mongooses.
3-1

Round 5 VS Luca Cinti with UWR Delver
G1: I take some beats from a delver while I scoulpt my hand in order to play around daze and spell pierce. I entomb on T3, reanimate Griselbrand on T4 and Tyrant on T5. At the end of the game my opponent reveals a daze and a spell pierce which were unuseful.
Side: +2 defense grid, +1 empyrial archangel, +1 S&T, -1 careful study, -1 reanimate, -1 jin, -1 ponder
G2: this is one of the most tense game I've ever played. I keep an hand with lands, 2 ponders, S&T, petal, reanimate and exhume: I don't have protection but if I manage to find a creature or an entomb I have a total of 3 ways to go off. My ponders, however, find me nothing but more lands, petal and a grid which fortunately hit the field. Meanwhile my opponent casts delver (which doesn't blind flip for several turns), rest in piece, vendilion (which takes my S&T away), geist and snapcaster so that he can kill me next turn if his delver flips. At this point I'm at 14 with 5 lands, a petal and a defense grid into the battlefield; my hand is something like 3 reanimation spells, 1 entomb, 1 petal and a brainstorm.
I brainstorm in his EOT and draw griselbrand, a land and another card. Untap, play land and petal and cast griselbrand from the hand. My opponent is at 16 and has only a card in hand; I'm pretty sure he has sided out the bolts so I do the math and decide to draw 7. This needs some explanation: if he has swords to plowshares in hand I've lost because I will not be able to draw 7 and I'll be on a 2 turn clock which I couldn't race; otherwise I need to draw 7 because if he draws a StP I'm dead if I don't find more gas. So I decided to play as if he doesn't have Stp and around stifle (which would screw me) and draw 7 in my turn under grid protection: I see no fow but a seize, another griselbrand and a S&T.
We draw and go for some turns than during which his delver flips, he than thinks about attacking for a minute and than turns all of his creatures: I block the geist and take 12 damage while gaining 7, which brings me to 2. He than stifles the end of combat angel trigger, thus gaining a 4/4 flying which screws my calcuations. I attack him (now we are 9-9) and cast a seize which get forced (he uses a fetch so he's at 8); I cast another one going to 7 and see cranial and stifle, which I take. I then cast S&T into an untapped griselbrand. He doesn't attack and we draw and go for some turns until I hit an empyrial and cast a previously drawn S&T, which allows me to attack with grisel: my opponent takes going to 1 and I go to 14. He attacks with 2 snapcasters and the angel (which I block) to kill the archangel and casts another delver. I attack and he blocks with vendilion, draw 7 and hardcast a grave titan: the following turn he finally scoops.
I have to say that my opponent played very well and I'm not aware of any misplay on his part. His first delver took long to flip but he also drew well while I drew very poorly inthe early game. I'll remember this game.
4-1

Round 6 VS Marco with shardless BUG
G1: I exhume Griselbrand on T2 and my opponent scoops.
Side: +4 pithing needle, +1 show and tell, -2 carefull study, -1 reanimate, -1 ponder, -1 Jin
G2: I keep an average hand with cantrip, griselbrand and a reanimation spell. Unfortunately he seize me pitching it: his next spells are Fow (don't remember what he countered), spellbomb, double hymn (he only plays 2...), jace and deathrite. I lose.
G3: I keep an hand with 2 needles, 2 study, 2 lands and a griselbrand: it's kind of risky but I got protection, bin effect and a fatty, if only a study was a ponder it would have been infinetly better. I open with needle on shaman and in the next turns I discard gris but fail to find a reanimation spell before he shardless into his only spellbomb (though it was set up by brainstorm). I play the other needle to force him to fire the bomb, so that I can rebuild the grave, and name Jace. Meanwhile the agent is killing me and my opponent forces my S&T and casts a goyf. On my last turn I attemp to exhume an entombed griselbrand but he shows me double Fow with double pitch...
In retrospective I think I've sided wrong in this match, more of it later.
4-2

Round 7 VS Miracle
at this point I'm out of top8 let alone a miracle... see the joke here?
G1: my cantrips don't find anything and my opponent casts a counterbalance: I try to play around it and even accomplish to exhume Iona. I name blue because I want to play S&T->griselbrand next turn and I was thinking he had jace to bounce iona, but he has StP and counterbalance counters my brainstorm which I played in search of a force.
Side: +2 defense grid, +2 wipe away, +1 archangel, -1 elesh-norn, -1 study, -1 reanimate, -1 jin, -1 ponder
G2: I keep a fast hand with T1 study discarding griselbrand and empyrial, T2 exhume on griselbrand. My opponent, however, plays Karaks on T2 (he has 1 or 2, I don't remenber) and bounces gris, in response of which I draw 7. On my turn I exhume the empyrial, while the next turn he plays counterbalance, jace, RIP (with my S&T) REB on tyrant (dropped with S&T) and makes 3 angels to which I don't find an answer (note that if I had a Leviathan instead of the archangel I should have won thanks to islandwalk).
Unfortunately this was the first time I played against miracle and I think I made some errors...
4-3

CONSIDERATIONS
I think I need to improve my sideboard plan, especially knowing better what to side out. For example in round 6 I think I sided in the correct cards but in retrospective I should have sided out the forces because with all his discard it's difficult to have a card to pitch and he has only 4 fow as stack control; instead I lowered my threat count which in retrospective I think is an error.
In round 7 I should have sided in the explosives instead of wipe away, but I'm not sure what I should have sided out. However I think that Miracles is a nightmare: Stp, counterbalance, counters, terminus, karakas, RIP... can someone instruct me how to approach this matchup?

More in general I'm having troubles with my sideboard plans: what do you think are the correct cards to side out in the various matchups?

Sorry for the wall of text.

[Kirika]

@5doorfury
Grave Titan is actually pretty decent main deck vs Death and Taxes. They can't Karakas it and as long as they don't have the Swords or you have protection it makes 2/2 Zombies to outrace them and has death touch.

After board Empyrical Archangel is good as are needles for Vial and Karakas. Engineered Explosives can be pretty good.

@kingtk3
I don't like Jin. Griselbrand's ability to draw 7 on demand to dig for a Force of Will or to try again in response to a Swords to Plowshares is pretty key. 7/7 life link is pretty awesome too. I would run 4 Griselbrand before I run the first Jin. Jin also dies to Dismember which actually comes up as some Delver and Merfolk builds run Dismember.

I typically keep my Forces in most of the time. You need counters for removal and to deal with their counters.

I typically take out some number of Careful Study (2-4) , Reanimate (0-2), Exhume (0-2), Entomb (0-1), (0-1) Ponder for the last Show and Tell (if I think they will bring in graveyard hate which is most of the time) and what ever other cards I think I will need in that match up.

Vs Canadian
+2 Engineered Explosives +2 Defense Grid
-2 Careful Study, -1 Reanimate, -1 Exhume
This match up is pretty miserable. Play around Daze so that leaves Spell Pierce and Force. Not always possible to play around Spell Pierce with so little mana. I run 16 lands which still isn't enough. EE can kill Delver and goose and buy you time. Defense Grids help fight through their counters.


Vs mono blue Omni tell/dream
+2 Fluster Storm, +2 Wipe Away
-2 Careful Study, -1 Elesh Norn, -1 Tidespout.
This is a pretty good match up cause they can't Show and tell without the risk of you droping Iona or Griselbrand and using Griselbrand to draw into counters. Iona on blue is GG.

UWR Delver
+2 Engineered Explosives, +1 Show and Tell, +1 Archangel
-1 Careful Study, -1 Tidespout Tyrant (gets redblasted)
You have to bring in EE and Show and Tell in case they have rest in peace. Archangel dodges STP/Path

Vs Shardless Bug
+1 Show and Tell, +2 Engineered Explosives, +3 Pithing Needle
-3 Careful Study, -1 Reanimate, -2 Exhume,
This actually isn't too terrible as maindeck they only have 3 forces if that and sometimes discard which may actually help you if its Random like Hymm. You actually want Engineered Explosives to be able to kill Baleful Strix and large Tarmogoyfs. Baleful Strix is so annoying as it just walls your big creature as a flying 1/1 with deathtouch. Here is one match you might want Inkwell Leviathan but Inkwell is only good if you can get it out early. Needles are good here for Liliana and Jace. I wouldn't board out forces because you need protection vs their forces and Jace.

Vs Miracles
+2 Enginered Explosives, +1 Archangel, +1 Show and Tell, +3 Pithing Needle
-3 Careful Study, -1 Reanimate, -1 Exhume, -1 Entomb, -1 Elesh Norn
This match up is pretty miserable. Especially the Rest in Peace version. You don't want Defense Grids here because you want to be able to defend your creature against Swords to Plowshares and Terminus. Engineered Explosives gets rid of Counterbalance along with Rest in Peace and Angel tokens in a pinch. Needle is pretty important so they don't just win with Jace and to stop the Sensei's Top from floating that Terminus.

[XVII]

Tried Reanimator at SCG CLE (Legacy Challenge and main event) and a local weekly. Haven't played the deck since before entomb was legal, so there's definitely some rust here. Went 3-1, 1-3 drop, and 2-2 playing the Shawn Tappen list from Philly with a modified sideboard. I felt that most losses were still pretty tight games.

My two issues were UWx Swords to Plowshares + counterspells decks (0-3 vs. these) and a Burn deck that was packing both Faerie Macabre and Ashen Riders in the board. I feel like the Burn guy was just over-boarding for the matchup, so I should just accept it and move on, but correct me if I'm wrong there.

Vs. UWx, all day I was wishing I had an Inkwell Leviathan in the board, so I'll be experimenting with that change. I did try out Empyrial Archangel and did not like it at all. I'm almost tempted to try a Sigarda to get around Liliana as well, but I feel like playing against Deathblade twice was a fluke and that tighter play could probably close the door on that as an out.

Other thoughts: I want 8 real lands to hard cast Griselbrand. This happened three times in a game vs. Miracles when he had a turn 2 RiP! Right now I need Lotus Petal to do that. I'd also like to try Swan Song in place of Flusterstorm in the board, since I think we're more interested in flexible hard counters (for STP, RiP, etc.) than in having another counter-war-winner.

[Anselm]

A Reanimator deck splashing red for Izzet Charm placed 3rd in a SCG open yesterday: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=59862

Izzet Charm is really interesting as it's a maindeck answer to deathrite that isn't dead in other matchups (by far). I used to play maindeck SnT but charm seems stronger. The mana should work out as I usually splash green for sb decays anyway.

I'm not really happy with the list, though. Zero Ponder can't be right, and it's not clear if 3 charm/3 careful study is optimal. And I don't get sideboarding dark rituals.

(I also like to sb Leyline of Sanctity, but nobody else ever does that.)

[Griselpuff]

The fast mana helps out a lot vs. the tempo decks, which are Reanimator's bad match-ups. Reanimator is really well positioned now, the only top deck it struggles a lot against is RUG (UWR is pretty close to even, maybe slightly in their favor). However, it makes up for losing to RUG by stomping on almost all of the fair decks and other combo decks.

And yeah, Izzet Charm was basically made for this deck. Surprised nobody discovered it early, the most useless mode is countering a non-creature spell, and that's saying something.

[Anselm]

I'd much prefer Duress to Dark Ritual vs RUG. Loading up on discard is also effective vs taxing counters, and it allows you to pick a path which they don't have much answer for (situational answers like Spell Snare, Surgical Extraction and Red Elemental Blast).

[nodahero]

I think Duress and Rit both have their benefits.

I think Rit provides just a slightly more impressive result because it can allow you to go off turn 1 with Discard into entomb/study/reanimate and Duress could never hope to pull off that shenanigan.

[Kirika]

Reanimator has been doing well recently.

Recent Star City events have seen at least 1 Reanimator in top 8/16.

I made top 8 in the last legacy tourney I played at Top Deck Games with Reanimator.
2-1 vs Goblins, 2-1 vs R/U Delver, 0-2 vs Lands, 2-0 vs Jund, 2-1 vs RUG Delver, ID.
Lost 0-2 to 4 color cascade in the top 8. game 1 he went first and had turn 1 deathrite and I couldn't find a show and tell or bin two fatties in time. game 2 I got out Iona on blue since he had suspended an ancestral visions. he got a crypt in play and I went for the entomb on griselbrand to make him use his crypt with a second in hand to careful study but he had surgical extraction for the blow out. Was not expecting Surgical out of a cascade deck since its terrible to cascade into if there are no good targets in the yard. Should have gotten Grave Titan anyway to clog up the ground. He then played Blood Braid into Goyf.

@XVII
U/W Counterbalance/RIP Miracles deck is one of the bad match ups for reanimator. You literally put your entire sideboard in and are on the Show and Tell plan since they have Rest in Peace and Countertop turns off most of your 1s and 2s so you hope to Pithing Needle Top and Jace.

Burn usually isn't too bad but you have to be careful of life loss from reanimate but if its fast Iona on Red just wins and Griselbrand usually gets there as long as you can swing with it. You can play Pithing Needle naming Faerie Macabre if that is a concern. Sideboard Ashen Riders isn't any different then playing against other show and tell/reanimator decks. You have to thought seize them before casting show and tell or just be in the reanimation plan.

My brother likes Inkwell. I prefer Empyrial Archangel because its also good vs other STP decks. Inkewell is only good if they have islands.

@akatsuki
Out of the popular decks, I find the RUG/RUW Delver, UW Rip Miracles and Maverick match ups difficult for Reanimator. Lands is also really hard but its not very popular. RUG/RUW Delver its tough to resolve anything through all their tax and counters + mana denial of stifle and wasteland. U/W RIP miracles is pretty hard to win with counter top, counters, karakas, main deck rest in peace with swords and terminus for removal. Maverick is pretty annoying with Thalia, STP, Knight fetching Karakas+ Maze. Empyrial Archangel and Grave titan help here.

I'm not sure Izzet charm is worth the red splash. It bins a creature slower then Careful Study and you have to open yourself up to Wasteland in a deck running few lands. I guess if there is large amount of Deathrite Shaman in your meta it might be worth considering but most Deathrite Shaman decks also run Wasteland.

@Aselm
I'm not sure I like the Izzet Charm red splash. Having 2 Swamps and 2 Islands certainly is good against mana denial decks and Blood Moon. I usually fetch for basics if possible. Izzet Charm costing 2 also makes it difficult to protect your combo with it. It does kill Deathrite and it does bin creatures but is it worth openning yourself up to wasteland when you have so few lands?

Main deck show and tell gives you an out against Rest In Peace which you see from some U/W Miracles players game 1 since it wins in combo with Helm of Obedience.

If your worried about taxing spells from Rug. City of Traitors is better then Dark Ritual for sideboard since they can't counter your land drop. The Dark Ritual Reanimator is called Tin Fins and its a bit different deck in that its based on going off on turn 1.

I am not a fan of sideboarding Leyline of Santity because you can't cast it unless its in your opening hand and you can't really afford to mulligan for Leyline of Sanctity when your forced to mulligan too often already because of low land count or no action.

@Nadahero
I would run 4 thoughseize before I run the first Duress. Yes it does cost life but Thoughtseize can target yourself to bin a creature or take the opponents creatures if your on the Show and Tell plan.

If you want to go off turn 1 with regularity your playing the wrong dck. Take a look at the Tin fins thread. UB reanimator has blue for protection. Yes it can go off turn 1 with land, lotus petal, entomb/careful study, reanimate but that is not the focus of the deck.

[nodahero]

I agree with you completely. I was merely commenting on the Duress vs Dark Rit angle, thats all.

[Professor_Awesome]

A Reanimator deck splashing red for Izzet Charm placed 3rd in a SCG open yesterday: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=59862

Izzet Charm is really interesting as it's a maindeck answer to deathrite that isn't dead in other matchups (by far). I used to play maindeck SnT but charm seems stronger. The mana should work out as I usually splash green for sb decays anyway.

I'm not really happy with the list, though. Zero Ponder can't be right, and it's not clear if 3 charm/3 careful study is optimal. And I don't get sideboarding dark rituals.

(I also like to sb Leyline of Sanctity, but nobody else ever does that.)

That was me. I'm a stronger meta predictor and deck designer than a player, so please ignore my bad plays on camera - I was joking around with my opponents non-stop and tend to play loose when I'm chatty. I hated the main SnT as such an awkward out considering you're usually discarding early and 3 mana is huge. Zero ponder is not right, but I couldn't find room for it because all the other numbers are imo at minimum (3 daze, 3 seize) or already cheating (15 lands). 2 Ponder is "correct". I defend the 3/3 split as the balance of utility and explosiveness - also I was testing the charm so I maybe bumped it up one higher than it will eventually settle at. It was also a meta call because I'm from Milwaukee and the only thing Wisconsin players love more than combo decks are deathrite shaman.

The SB dark rits are for fair decks and other combo (which reanimator preys upon - please ignore my sneak and show loss as I kept bad hands, made mistakes, and had poor draws, the matchup is about 60/40 us).

Rits are not for tempo. City of Traitors to blank their tax counters, steel wind if you think they'll side in surgical so you can get a lifelink guy after they exile all your griselbrands, and maybe something else depending on the situation. It's easy to over sideboard in a deck this powerful. Furthermore they often wasteland my city, which makes me so happy. Thank you for letting me still cast all my spells.

Discard is indeed a problem, but you already have all the solutions maindeck. Daze, brainstorm, your own discard, izzet charm, and just drawing into the next reanimate card naturally work fine, even under pressure. Sometimes you lose, but there's no need to go crazy diluting a very very tight list with 4 uncastable cards that don't interact with your combo in a helpful way (like, say izzet charm does. If you really really want to stop discard, maybe you're playing against pox or something, just side in the flusterstorms.

I don't know if people were questioning the Jin-Gitaxis, but I maintain he deserves the spot over the 4th griselbrand (multiples always seem to clog up my hand and GY as it is). I very often need to draw cards without paying life and the 0 handsize for opponents is game over right away. I get jin over iona half the time vs combo, even, as I just need to force one thing and then they lose. He's not ideal vs swords decks with white mana untapped, mid game, etc, but that's the beauty of entomb. You run 3 griselbrands to draw+discard as a catch-all, but entomb gives you the power to silver bullet people. Turn 1+2 it's usually Jin/Iona, midgame it's Griselbrand, at 8 life late game and need to draw into force it's Jin again, midgame vs aggro it's Elesh, etc.

I like inkwell over the archangel because trample and faster clock.

Ashen Rider is indeed better than Angel of Despair, but why would you want to run that anyway? Sneak and Show sides out SnT vs us and Omni Tell vs Reanimator is already about the most miserably lopsided match they have. It's got a bad risk vs reward in the mirror, as you exhuming with Rider in your gy still wins them the game if they entomb in response, and 4 turns is painfully slow when you aren't drawing 7 a turn or shutting them off of black.

[Anselm]

Cool to have you here!

I might consider something like -2 petal, -1 study, +2 ponder, +1 land? Or possibly go down to 2 charms.

I like Jin-Gitaxias, too.

City of Traitors is good against RUG, sure. Good to hear you didn't use rituals there. Still not convinced they're worth it against combo and fair decks, but I can see the point, though I suspect I'd want more discard there instead.

Leylines is mostly because discard leaves you so weak to graveyard hate. Also this deck is about the best leyline deck ever, with both brainstorm to put them back and lootings to discard them with if you draw them later on. Many other combo decks use them. I'll have to test some more, your argument has some merit too.

[Professor_Awesome]

Sneak and Show is a better candidate for leylines sb, as it's got about 3-4 flex slots main, while we don't. They lose harder to discard than we do which is why the good lists are going the full 4 spell pierce main. I'm loathe to drop petals and have 3-4 ponder like I saw the lists had been running a month or so ago. It moves the deck more in the "durdle every turn pondering into brainstorms" direction which is why I quit playing Storm and after that various SnT decks. Something about brainstorming and seeing land ponder ponder sends me into a burning rage.

Reanimator, and specifically my list, but also I feel the deck as a whole, is built on a philosophy of greedy domination. It's also a control deck. The deck is designed to cause blowouts utilizing cards that are up-front killers while playing a tempo strategy. Have you noticed in your weeks of playing that the deck seems to topdeck savage compared to other combo? Big hot and cold streaks. Lots of sick rips, but also lots of 5 reanimate card hands with no guy in the yard. Why? Because it's running 20 combo cards and 4 brainstorms instead of 12 combo cards and 12 brainstorms. I'm simplifying slightly for effect, since careful study and charm are kind of dig, but they're desperate dig and card disadvantage, and you should always wait and not hope to draw the fatty, but I digress.

If you must add ponder, you push the philosophy more towards dedicated combo from control/combo, which tries not to have any topdeck at all that can't morph into something you want. Short term all-in bad topdecks like daze aren't quite as good here.

-3 daze, +1 land, +2 ponder would be how I'd do it, if I were offered money to have the correct amount of ponders main.

[Anselm]

I'm not sure I understand. "My weeks of playing"? The deck being more of a control deck if it has more combo pieces and less manipulation? In my opinion, a deck like Omni-Tell is more of a control deck than Reanimator because it has more digging power and a later fundamental turn.

Sure, I've mostly played the deck with 0-2 petals and 3-4 ponders. And also, storm and omnitell are my other favorite decks at the moment, so we're coming from quite different angles here. Brainstorming into two ponders is the best feeling. :)

[lyracian]

That was me. I'm a stronger meta predictor and deck designer than a player, so please ignore my bad plays on camera - I was joking around with my opponents non-stop and tend to play loose when I'm chatty.Congratulations on the finish. Charm does seem to be a good all round card for giving the deck what it wants discard/protection/creature kill all wrapped up in one package. I think I will give it a try. Are you going to write a Tournament report?

[Professor_Awesome]

I'm not sure I understand. "My weeks of playing"? The deck being more of a control deck if it has more combo pieces and less manipulation? In my opinion, a deck like Omni-Tell is more of a control deck than Reanimator because it has more digging power and a later fundamental turn.

Sure, I've mostly played the deck with 0-2 petals and 3-4 ponders. And also, storm and omnitell are my other favorite decks at the moment, so we're coming from quite different angles here. Brainstorming into two ponders is the best feeling. :)

I just reread my 4am post and I could've been more clear haha. Reanimator is a tempo control deck with a combo win condition. At least in my opinion. When I'm not being a tool on camera, I play it like Team America, except instead of goyf or tombstalker, I reanimate a control creature like Iona, Jin-Gitaxis, Tidespout Tyrant, etc. All the reanimation targets need to have heavy control elements, which is why Ashen Rider is weak (inkwell notwithstanding, but it's a solution to a problem).

A typical turn one is thoughtseize you, daze your brainstorm that you respond with, play lotus petal, go. What a tempo turn! So much control and you still have 2 mana on turn 2 plus their card quality is completely ruined. This is very different than Omnitell's (or even storm's) t1 preordain, t2 ponder, shuffle, defensively spell pierce your discard. They primarily sculpt and we primarily disrupt.

Anyway I don't want to belabor my point, but it was late and I was talking about philosophies and shit and it needed clarification haha. As a final note, ponders over dazes isn't wrong, it just moves the deck a little closer to pure combo from combo/control, which isn't a bad thing, it's a personal preference thing. Ponder into Brainstorm, Lotus Petal, Ponder? I'm furious about that! haha

[Professor_Awesome]

Congratulations on the finish. Charm does seem to be a good all round card for giving the deck what it wants discard/protection/creature kill all wrapped up in one package. I think I will give it a try. Are you going to write a Tournament report?

I did not take notes, but I can give some vague memories. Some stuff might be off.

R1: ???
G1 He wins the die roll. Turn one he goes underground sea, lotus petal, cracks for RED, young pyromancer. I find this strange, but I have the complete nuts, so whatever.
My turn I underground sea, lotus petal, careful study, pitch Jin-Gitaxis, Reanimate, end turn, draw 7, discard Griselbrand, land. Next turn I can animate dead and I have a force so I'm feeling good.
His turn two is Reanimate MY griselbrand, force my force. This was unexpected. The next 7 I draw off Jin includes no creatures or counters, and that's game.
G2&3 Now knowing what I'm playing against, I play better and win the next 2. He informs me he is NOT playing value reanimates in u/b/r delver, but a true hybrid. Cool.

R2: Mono Red Burn
Nice guy, gets stellar burn hands (I'm at 10 life on turn 2 both games), but Iona shuts him out twice. He's a good player and burn wasn't a bad choice with so much greedy 4-color durdley nonsense floating around.

R3: I think a grixis delver deck
G1 I Thoughtseize a brainstorm into turn 2 Jin-Gitaxis. He plays a bob then discards his hand. I swing for 5, make an Iona, and that's game.
G2 I have 3 cards in my library and he's at 5 life with a flipped delver out. I izzet charm his guy and swing for the win.

R4: Big Robots MUD
G1: Jin-Gitaxis discards his hand and I kill him with card advantage.
G2: Force of will the first lock piece, then Jin-Gitaxis discards his hand and I kill him with card advantage.

R5: Jeff hoogland camera match
G1 He wastelands me or something, but then I accidentally say 'okay' to a chalice at 1 with a force in hand. Like I can't explain why I would do this with that hand, it was bad. No takebacks and I become tilted for the rest of the match. He draws all 4 chalices and I just want the game to end.
G2 I make a tidespout tyrant due to his karakas. I izzet charm to bounce his knight and the four cards in question are petal, petal, charm, reanimate. What do you discard? petal+reanimate obviously because you need exactly 2 more turns of bounce and can't rely on having a target for Rean. You need to keep charm to draw into counters. I discard izzet charm, reanimate because I'm tilted and being retarded. I'm joking with him and having a good time but it's a cover for how embarrassed I am. I just bounce his guy until he dies.
G3 I keep a greedy 1 lander because I just want this match to end, get me off this camera. All I need is a reanimate card, easy enough to draw into with brainstorm and a few draw steps. He mulls to four and I feel really bad for him, especially when I thoughtseize turn one to take his thalia, making his hand: taiga, land, land. I brainstorm into stuff, entomb for almost Jin-Gitaxis, but I'm sick of making terrible plays so I choose inkwell since it blanks karakas, exiles, mazes which he might be playing, and kills very fast. Turns out he's got the maze, so good call there, and 7, 14, dead. I sympathize on his bad beats and get out of there, hoping to get it together next match.

R6: I think this was my non-camera feature match I played against Storm being played by a nice guy with a SWAGSWAGSWAG tshirt.
Memory's fuzzy, but I think G1 I'm on the play and t2 Jin-Gitaxis, draw no blue card for the force in my hand, and he kills me on his t2 with a very long string of plays involving past in flames into adnaus.
G2&3 I win as it's a good matchup for me, Jin discarding his hand is so brutal. Iona on black might've been game 3, can't recall. Game 1 was long and epic and it clouds my mind.

R7: nic fit
Not recalling these games but it was pretty bad for him. He had deathrite shaman and izzet charm was very useful. I think I won with Jin g1 and griselbrand g2.

R8: ID with the only other 7-0.
R9: ID with sneak and show guy.

Top 8: I play my worst matchup in the top 8, u/w/r delver.
G1: He keeps a weak hand and I kill him with griselbrand. I play it extra safe until I draw a second reanimate effect, then just go for it, turns out he's got stifles instead of counters.
G2: we're joking non-stop. He's very nervous and thinks this is a bad matchup for him. He asks me how to sb and I look at his decklist and tell him honestly the exact cards to sb and take out. I keep an obnoxious 5 card nothing hand and just draw discard until he wins, I give up on the game right about when I say 'keep'. This is uncharacteristic of me, but I'm not good on camera and I just want to be on the play. Plus we're joking about what the coverage guys are thinking and it's good fun.
G3: I'm still retarded, but I at least keep a decent hand, fetch right away so he can wasteland me, brainstorm in response, get some stuff, thoughtseize him, and discover that he kept a clunker almost worse than mine from last game. He was really, really leaning on that brainstorm still being there on his next turn. He ponders into nothing and I kill him with inkwell because I want the sure thing. While I'm entombing I pause on Jin-Gitaxis to troll the people watching and it totally works! Watching it later Saheen is like "no! no, not jin!" lol, anyway, he draws force one turn too late and shows me, which allows me to daze his geist so that when he forces the trample kills him exacties.

Top 4: I play a 60-40 matchup, Sneak and Show. His deck is super pretty and the decklist is nice. We're both excited because whoever wins gets to Force Oops, All Spells Twice and get a trophy.
G1: I mull to 5 and lose.
G2: I keep a bad 7, thoughtseize him to see a god hand. I say this looks good for you. I take Top and he says, "Going for the long game, huh?" I respond with, "No, but your hand is so good and mine is so bad, that my only chance is making you have to topdeck your next land and maybe you'll get as unlucky as I am. I draw total garbage with desperate draw+discard while he, indeed, gets unlucky with topdecks - but in a manner that still lets him slowly, slowly kill me with a hand filled with counters. I start artistically arranging my permanents in boredom so the people at home have something to watch besides an unlucky sneak attack player shuffling for 20minutes looking for a very elusive Emrakul. He even checks his sideboard for them haha

Top 2: Sneak vs Oops All Spells
G1: Counter the thing.
G2: Counter the thing. Trophy!

Props:
SCG for throwing one of these so close to my house.
Izzet Charm.
Jin-Gitaxis.
Redbull.
Mox Mania (madison store, legacy twice a week, believe it!).
Dodging death and taxes.

Slops:
Cameras.
My poor decisions.
No one believing me all day when I kept calling it Grixis Control.
Cheating on land count.

[Myelectronicdays]

Great writeup man, enjoyed watching you play during the day. Even though you said you were nervous, you seemed to be having alot of fun with the deck, and just enjoying playing. It's nice to see after you run into so many serious opponents sometimes. Great job. (love the red splash also)

[Barbed Blightning]

@Prof. Awesome: any changes you'd make? Aside from D&T, what do you think the deck's worst matchups are?

[Professor_Awesome]

@Prof. Awesome: any changes you'd make? Aside from D&T, what do you think the deck's worst matchups are?

The main is right atm. Except for the fact that there really should be 16 land and 2 ponder but I'm not willing to drop anything else so yeah. My sideboard has always felt bad because reanimator is so strong that you're diluting it after 3 cards in. the biggest mistake I see Reanimator players making is they sideboard in way way too many cards.

Worst matchups? Hmm. Aside from d&t which may be the worst, correctly built black maverick with thoughtseizes, heavy counterspell decks that also have discard, american delver, some of the reinvented u/r pyrodelver decks that will be popping up soon (since the card the deck was waiting for to be good has just been printed), and literally everyone with karakas that also has counters or discard.

Rest in peace isn't as big of a deal as people think. Surgical, flusterstorm, karakas are the best cards against us.

[Professor_Awesome]

@Prof. Awesome: any changes you'd make? Aside from D&T, what do you think the deck's worst matchups are?

The main is right atm. Except for the fact that there really should be 16 land and 2 ponder but I'm not willing to drop anything else so yeah. My sideboard has always felt bad because reanimator is so strong that you're diluting it after 3 cards in. the biggest mistake I see Reanimator players making is they sideboard in way way too many cards.

Worst matchups? Hmm. Aside from d&t which may be the worst, correctly built black maverick with thoughtseizes, heavy counterspell decks that also have discard, american delver, some of the reinvented u/r pyrodelver decks that will be popping up soon (since the card the deck was waiting for to be good has just been printed), and literally everyone with karakas that also has counters or discard.

Rest in peace isn't as big of a deal as people think. Surgical, flusterstorm, karakas are the best cards against us.

[Neffy]

Is RIP not a big threat?
If you cant remove it with surgical or counter it, how do you play around it? Most reanimator runs only 2 show and tell in sb, which isnt much to rely on?

[Anselm]

Not many decks run maindeck RiP, and most reanimator lists play 3-4 SnT post sb. There's also discard and bounce (although I'm not very fond of playing more than 1-2 bounce spells myself, as SnT is a better plan vs permanent-based GY hate and you can't dilute the deck very much by sideboarding). You can cut Daze in very grindy matchups or against very fast decks when on the draw, you can cut some reanimation and lootings when bringing in SnT, but everything else hurts. That's why I like having a bunch of Duresses in the board, as you have the space and they're a lot better than FoW against delver.

[Kirika]

@Professor_Awesome
Congratulations on the finish. Thanks for the write up.

Red splash is interesting for Charm. I still like Show and Tell because it gets past any grave yard hate not just Shaman.

Has fetching for a nonbasic to have red mana cost you any games against Wasteland decks? I like having my 4 basics against Knight and Lands decks that can recur/get more wastelands.

Not sure on cutting Careful Study because of the turn 1/2 potential. Charm slows you down but gives you an answer to Deathrite.

How has Daze performed for you? Daze is amazing to protect your combo if going off turn 1 or two but I really start disliking Daze past turn 3 or 4 and I like it even more on the draw. It almost always got sideboarded out so I ended up cutting it for extra Thoughtseize and Show and Tell.

I am on 16 lands and 2 Ponder right now. I tried 15 lands and I seem to mulligan more then I like because of no land or 1 land hands. I like some number of Ponder to help find me some action.

I like Jin vs combo but vs anything else Griselbrand presents a more significant threat 7/7 life link is much better then 4/4 and can draw 7 immediately if hit with instant removal. 0 Handsize for opponents is great but it doesn't deal with whats on the board and if they kill Jin right away your sunk. 5/4 also dies much easier then 7/7 (Dismember, Fireblast, 2 Bolts etc). Might have to give the 1 of Jin a shot again since there is a decent ammount of combo in the North East as well.

My brother also keeps telling me Archangel is bad to run Inkwell because its a faster clock and better vs blue decks. Archangel wins races if they have less then 8 power on the board.

I agree on most of the bad match ups. Black Maverick I been testing with thoughtseize + Dark confidant + Knight with Karakas is pretty darn miserable. Counter Top Miracles with main deck Rest in Peace is pretty annoying as well. RUG/RUW delver is a match we don't want to see either.

Maindeck Grave Titan does help with Karakas decks somewhat but they do also tend to have Swords to Plowshares. Debating running Archangel instead but Grave Titan is pretty good versus Maze. Bad vs Tabernacle though.

@Abselm
I don't like cutting Petals because of the turn 1 potential of Land, Petal, Entomb/careful study + discard fatty, Reanimate or Turn 1-2 Show and Tell.


@Neffy
RIP is a big threat but only Counterbalance miracles runs it main deck. You do see it in UWb Stoneblade, UWr delver, and Rw Goblins sideboards though. I run 3 Show and Tell main deck with the 4th in the board to have an answer to Rest in Peace. I play against friends who run CounterTop RIP Miracles so must have a main deck answer. I also sideboard Engineered Explosives which can remove Rest in Peace.

[Neffy]

@Professor_Awesome
Maindeck Grave Titan does help with Karakas decks somewhat but they do also tend to have Swords to Plowshares. Debating running Archangel instead but Grave Titan is pretty good versus Maze. Bad vs Tabernacle though.


I guess this is where Inkwell comes in.
I saw a mirror match yesterday where one had inkwell, the other karakas from SB. Completely useless and nothing for him to do.

[kingtk3]

@Professor_Awesome: I'm interested in how izzet charm performed for you, particullarly which mode you used the most and if it outweight adding a color at the deck.

I'm asking because I'm testing myself dimir charm as a removal for deathrite and additional counter against combo (each combo is sorcery speed), terminus and discard (although it comes down late). It can also bin a creature if you're in a pinch, or if you set up with brainstorm.

However I haven't had the opportunity to test because of work so this is theorycrafting.

[Barbed Blightning]

@Professor_Awesome: I'm interested in how izzet charm performed for you, particullarly which mode you used the most and if it outweight adding a color at the deck.

I'm asking because I'm testing myself dimir charm as a removal for deathrite and additional counter against combo (each combo is sorcery speed), terminus and discard (although it comes down late). It can also bin a creature if you're in a pinch, or if you set up with brainstorm.

However I haven't had the opportunity to test because of work so this is theorycrafting.

Oooh. That's good. Dimir charm also spares us the third color

[Professor_Awesome]

@Kirika

I like show and tell too, which is why I run 3 side. I just wanted something to do main deck that was useful vs the infinite shaman decks that wasn't as cumbersome as SnT main.
Specifically fetching for a red has not, but keeping a one-lander and fetching an underground sea to entomb with a backup daze has cost me a game to wasteland. The ratio of games lost to games won for being aggressive with duals is about 1:7. I do not respect the wasteland like I should, because I play to never go long. Sometimes I lose, sure.

Daze has been MVP not only for last tourney, but all the ones I've taken it to these past few months. I gotta run more than just 4x FoW to draw into with Griselbrand when I'm tapped out. I gotta turn one thoughtseize, pass, and daze their t1 ponder. Nearly most of all I need to daze their t2 thalia. Daze helps the hatebear matchups. Yeah, it's a bad topdeck sometimes, but it's a playstyle choice - it allows you to play control/tempo with a combo finish.

On Jin: sometimes the time is right, sometimes it's not, same as Iona. Don't underestimate the power of drawing 7 without paying life or your opponent discarding his hand. That's an 'or' on purpose, I've animated him just to draw 7 life-free knowing my opponent will kill him and not discard his hand. Fine, I needed cards and it bought me a turn of attacks. Sure, he's got downsides: swords before your endstep, only a 5/4, no evasion, can't draw 14, no lifelink, etc. Time and place.

RUG is a fine matchup. It's not so bad. That deck; sometimes they have everything, that's the nature of it. t1 delver, daze you, stifle you, waste you, force you, pierce you, gg. But I wouldn't group u/w/r delver with RUG. Swords to Plowshares takes an okay matchup and makes it Bad.

@kingtk3
My most used modes for izzet charm on the day were 1) draw discard 2) counter non-creature 3) pitch to force 4) shock. Each mode directly won me games.

Dimir charm is something we tested. My teammate chose dimir and I chose izzet. He likes it because you get to stay on u/b and it kinda does similar things. Sorcery is way worse than non-creature, obv. The sweet stuff to counter with izzet has been main deck RiP, Jace, liliana, relic of prog, force of will, etc. Sorcery only means your relegated to countering discard and wincons/ponders, which is nice, but not excellent. Setting up a dimir charm with brainstorm is about as bad as setting up a delver with a brainstorm - it feels like a waste of a powerful card, and often is. In a vacuum (i.e. with no Brainstorm) Izzet gives you the option of waiting with a guy in your hand or being desperate and hoping you draw into one, dimir charm let's you only do the latter.

I think it's a fine choice. It's like 3 Daze vs +1 land +2 ponder, what's it worth to you? I mull more, but keep more 'kill you plus all deez' blowout hands. A lot of times you actually need all deez to win, the way legacy hands can go. I like to blow people out with some risk. Your style may differ.
Is keeping it at 2 colors worth a worse utility card main? To me no, to my teammate yes. Maybe if there were some red cards in the SB it'd be more definitive. I'm currently trying out 3 young pyro in the side against the 18 counters main style decks that are popping up in my meta. Could be good. Sorta like Bob side in storm, in a way.

[th3 w1z4rd]

Reanimator blows. Just today I mulled to oblivion three times in a row. Literally none of the hands had the concrete ability to get a creature out by at worst turn 3. Why would anyone play this shit?

[kingtk3]

Reanimator blows. Just today I mulled to oblivion three times in a row. Literally none of the hands had the concrete ability to get a creature out by at worst turn 3. Why would anyone play this shit?

I once mulled to 4 in a tournament and only lost because of a misplay (I didn't fetch with delta in response to a pithing needle, which costed me the game), otherwise I would have won.

Against some decks a creature on turn 3 is good enough to win the game, you don't need to rush a T1 or 2 reanimation.

This deck needs you to play tight and be able to play through the hate, but rewards you with some of the best opening (griselbrand on T1) and the best topdecks in the meta.

Obviously it needs to reflect your playstile, otherwise it will always feel clunky in your hands.

[Barbed Blightning]

I once mulled to 4 in a tournament and only lost because of a misplay (I didn't fetch with delta in response to a pithing needle, which costed me the game), otherwise I would have won.

Against some decks a creature on turn 3 is good enough to win the game, you don't need to rush a T1 or 2 reanimation.

This deck needs you to play tight and be able to play through the hate, but rewards you with some of the best opening (griselbrand on T1) and the best topdecks in the meta.

Obviously it needs to reflect your playstile, otherwise it will always feel clunky in your hands.

I've been fooling with the deck and I agree that (like every combo deck) it rewards tight play, making the best of your opening hand and subsequent draws and an understanding that the deck (like every deck) isn't a 100%-consisent machine. Random chance is involved, sometimes you go nuts and win, sometimes you draw the wrong 3rd of your combo for six turns.

[Kirika]

@Neffy
Strongly considering Inkwell over Archangel. I don't think Karakas is worth running anymore now that Karakas does not destroy opposing Karakas. You run Needle which solves your Karakas problem along with other problem activated abilities instead.

@Kingtk3
Not sure about Dimir Charm. Killing Deathrite is great and so is pitching to force but countering sorceries isn't pretty limited to getting things like Terminus, Burning Wish/Infernal Tutor, Dread Return/Therapy, Ponder. The card disadvantage ability does not reliably bin a creature unless you set it up with Brainstorm and rather just have a Ponder if I want to dig for action. Could be worth trying but what would you cut for it.

Professor_Awesome
I run 16 lands (2 island, 2 swamp) and 4 petals which makes it slightly easier to cast show and tell and I am not returning my land for Dazes either. Might revisit Daze but I been doing alright without it.

I see Daze being better if you are really agressive with it like it seems you are. I don't always Daze the first thing I can like Brainstorm or Ponder although I understand that that agressive line of play can prevent them from getting what they need.

Jin is bad versus instant removal that can kill him before you draw 7 otherwise Jin is pretty good. There just seems to be lots of Swords to Plowshares decks and decks running Dismember lately and less combo at big events so I haven't been running Jin although I do run him at my local shop cause there is a decent number of combo players where Jin just wins the game if he sticks.


@th3 w1z4rd
I actually find Reanimator to mulligan rather well since you have so many redundant combo peices and Brainstorm/Ponder to find them. Issue that I have sometimes is the low land count really can be a problem with not drawing enough lands against denial decks with Wasteland and Stifle.

@Barbed Blightning
I actually think Reanimator is one of the more consistent combo decks as far as resolving the combo with Brainstorm and Ponder to find it and Thoughseize + Force/Daze to resolve it. I have played Elves, Epic Storm, Dredge, Hyper Show and Know, Sneak and Show and I prefer Reanimator. Reanimator does have some slight issues with denial decks because of the low land count and is vulnerable to grave yard hate as well as creature removal. There also is something to be said about attacking with fatties.

[Esper3k]

So I'm currently back to Reanimator (I can't quit you!) and had some thoughts and questions for people:

Regarding Engineered Explosives from the board: How are people liking it? It's nice to be able to actually answer (as opposed to bouncing) problem permanents, but is the slower speed worth it over bounce? Bringing it in also makes it likely we're going to be losing on blue spell count as well in a deck that's already fairly light on blue cards for FoW.

Regarding Daze vs Thoughtseize: I'm still torn on this. In the past, I used to be in the Thoughtseize camp, but with the speed that Reanimator can go off now due to Lotus Petals, I've been having loltastic time Dazing people on T2.

Regarding Grave Titan / Tidespout Tyrant: Is anyone else getting less and less happy with Tidespout Tyrant? Yes, I understand we need to be able to bounce Ensnaring Bridges sometimes, but most of the time I see him, I'm just angry he's not doing much. I've been playing around with Grave Titan and he's been surprisingly solid against some of our problem cards / matchups (D&T, Liliana).

Sideboarding: I see that a lot of people are on the Show & Tell plan vs the UWR Delver deck due to RIP. While I can understand that, I think it could be wrong due to them having pretty much the same taxing disruption package as RUG + REBs. I think that just bringing in the EE / bounce plan is fine and actually boarding out the Show & Tells. Thoughts?

[Koby]

Thoughts about the Young Pyromancer hybrid reanimator lists that SCG has been pushing lately? It seems like an interesting idea to combat the DRS hate that seems prevalent across the format right now.

Key highlights:
Core reanimation shell (Entomb, Reanimate, FoW, Daze, Brainstorm, Ponder)
Compact reanimation targets -- Griselbrand and Elesh Norn.
Alternate, non-GY plan with Young Pyromancer.
Lightning Bolt!

Elesh Norn & Griselbrand represent the best ways to fight fair and non-fair decks, respectively.
The spells this deck plays are the most efficient versions and are highly synergistic with Young Pyromancer.

The deck loses a little density of reanimation spells, but makes up for it with more cantrips. Additionally, Lightning Bolt adds reach as well as offering a method to kill DRS, Scavenging Ooze, Delver of Secrets, etc.

The biggest question is how consistent this version is.

For reference:
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Griselbrand

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Exhume
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Reanimate

1 Badlands
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

[nedleeds]

Well at least when it gets Blood Mooned out of the game it can still cast spiteful Lightning Bolts ...

[Koby]

Well at least when it gets Blood Mooned out of the game it can still cast spiteful Lightning Bolts ...

That's true. It more than likely will just counter it with FoW; but here's hoping Magus of the Moon is the offender, rather than the Enchantment.

[Barbed Blightning]

I see it, I just don't understand what makes it substantially better than traditional Reanimator. I understand YP and bolt are good, but it's like UWR delver: it's splitting ends just to play both. If Red had an entomb effect (better than looting) I could see it.

[Myelectronicdays]

Well at least when it gets Blood Mooned out of the game it can still cast spiteful Lightning Bolts ...

Thats obviously my biggest worry. I like these changes alot... but going full non basic has me thinkin on it. I may try this version ina couple weeks though

[Esper3k]

If anything, the YP lists should really be playing Izzet Charm over Lightning Bolt.

[kingtk3]

If anything, the YP lists should really be playing Izzet Charm over Lightning Bolt.

This.

I like new ideas and techs, but I think that this is going a little off target: it's more of a UR pyro with some reanimation spells than the otherside. The idea of YP is intriguing, but I would explore it in another way.

[Myelectronicdays]

Yeah id have to agree. I still prefer to keep grave titan in the deck if i want to start flooding the board.. and yes if you are gonna splash red, then izzit charms feel alot more appropriate

[PirateKing]

Sideboarding: I see that a lot of people are on the Show & Tell plan vs the UWR Delver deck due to RIP. While I can understand that, I think it could be wrong due to them having pretty much the same taxing disruption package as RUG + REBs. I think that just bringing in the EE / bounce plan is fine and actually boarding out the Show & Tells. Thoughts?

The list I've run since Griselbrand didn't include S&T, rather 2 Echoing Truth in the main and a ever changing backup of more bounce and sometimes EE in the side. I know we shouldn't discuss budgeted decks here, but with poverty breeding innovation and whatnot, my experience has found even against DRS and main deck RiP, not very ofter would a S&T have given a win out of an otherwise loss. A lot of times I faced people in Game 2 that were sandbagging Oblivion Ring or Angel of Despair expecting to see the S&T after they open with a Leyline, only to see me Chain of Vapor it at the end of their turn and then throw something out.

I can see how people lean on S&T post board once the element of surprise is gone, but using S&T and then not winning that turn ala OmniTell and the like just seems suboptimal.

Then again, all the list of success have run it...

[Koby]

I agree with respect to S&T being a big crutch. People have been prepared for months for S&T into fattie. I would rather play more EE / Echoing Truth to deal with graveyard hate. The only time playing S&T would be appropriate is if you're also playing Gitaxian Probe to verify the coast is clear.

[Kirika]

@Esper3k
Engineered Explosives is pretty good many of the things Pithing Needle is not. Rest in Peace, Baleful Strix, lots of Goblin or Zombie Tokens. Counterbalance, Tarmogoyf. Can even remove Ensnaring Bridge or Solitary Confinement with a Lotus Petal.

Thoughtseize wins over Daze giving you information and taking their best card. In a pinch Thoughtseize can make you discard a creature. Daze is highly conditional and only good on turns 1-3 and loses effectiveness on the draw or as the game goes on.

Tyrant is a concession to having an answer for everything. It bounces Emrakul, Ensnaring Bridge, Maze of Ith, Glacial Chasm and more. Its not a particulary good beater but if you need to bounce something to win you have Tyrant.

Grave Titan has been decent. Its pretty amazing vs Jund. Death and Taxes the Titan is vulnerable to Swords to Plowshares but dodging Karakas is pretty good.

@Koby
Young Pyromancer Hybrid looks like someone took a Delver Deck and took out the delvers and some stuff and put in a reanimation package. Not sure I like it because it opens you up to Wasteland and Blood moon relly ruining up your day.

Show and Tell gets around grave yard hate all together while having its own weaknesses.

Do you prefer Echoing Truth over Wipe away? I think I play against Miracles too much because several of my test partners play it so I run Wipe Away. Engineered Explosives gets the Goblins and Zombie Tokens.

@Pirate King
You can't always rely on Bounce. Opponent might have 2 different gaveyard hate cards on the board or hit you with a Surgical Extraction/Extirpate. Show and Tell just goes around Graveyard hate altogether. Yes it has its own drawbacks but those can be mitigated. Thoughtseize lets if the coast is clear and take a creature if they have one. Costing 3 isn't so terrible with Lotus Petals.

I play against friends who run Miracles with main deck Rest in Peace so I run main deck Show and Tell to have an answer.

[Esper3k]

Thanks for the thoughts, Kirika! Regarding EE, I was thinking of it more as a comparison vs bounce since it's a solution for permanent based hate that Pithing Needle doesn't get. Are people finding that the speed you give up with EE is worth it to permanently answer something?

[Kirika]

Few things I been thinking about.

Is Ashen Rider better then Terrastadon as the boarded removal creature?
Terrastadon can hit more then one thing but drawback is it gives the opponent elephants. this can be good if you want to hit your own land for extra blockers or pressure but that doesn't happen often. Ashen Rider exiles so is better then Angel of Despair other then hurting you for 1 more life if reanimated. The exiling again on death isn't to relevant because of Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile.

To Daze or not to Daze?
Daze can be a blow out if you get someone with it but is less good on the draw and gets worse as the game goes on and is worse once your opponent knows you have it or just plays around Daze. Haven't been running Daze lately opting for more Thoughtseize and fitting in Show and Tell but might consider it again.

Is Jin worth it without Daze?
Jin a blow out vs combo and if you can play him on turn 1 on the play with Daze or Force back up to answer what their play. Not so good versus decks with swords to plowshares or even dismember.

@Esper3k
Engineered Explosives can permanently remove creatures like Thalia, Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, Meddling Mage, Ooze that just bouncing them isn't all that great unless your doing it repeatedly with Tidespout.

[MountainGo]

I prefer running with Daze, while usually boarding it out if I'm on the draw games 2 or 3. I find having the extra counter very helpful when trying to force through a reanimation spell or dealing with maindeck hate. I run 3 Daze and 3 Thoughtseize in my main and it seems to work well for me, although I keep all my Shows in the sideboard so I have the space for it. If I was going to run 2 Shows main I'd probably cut 1 of each. Also if the opponent knows your playing Daze and as a result plays around it, they're slowing themselves down so it's helpful, all the better if you actually boarded them out and they're slowing up a turn for no reason.

Without Daze I'd take Jin out, STP and Dismember are too common to rely on the 4 Forces alone. While you have a good shot at drawing them off the D7 it's not consistent enough for me.

[Esper3k]

I'm not a fan of Jin-Gitaxias, especially not at the cost of the 4th Griselbrand. While there are some situations where Jin is better, Griselbrand's overall utility in a much greater number of situations just gives him the slot for me.

On EE vs bounce: Certainly dealing with hate permanently is preferable, but the question is it worth the loss of speed due to costing more mana and reducing the number of blue cards (admittedly a smaller consideration)?

[Luklinda]

Ashen Rider is significantly better than 'don against aggro decks and sneak/show decks; while the elephant herd is better against dedicated combo decks. But it seems like Iona is probably ~ equal in value against the combo decks too so I'd say Rider is better.

[PirateKing]

Anybody bring reanimator to DC?
I'm curious what sideboard lists look like.

[Juice11]

Anybody bring reanimator to DC?
I'm curious what sideboard lists look like.

I'm not going to be in DC, but I was in Philly for the Eternal Weekend. My sideboard was:

2 Show and tell (2 MD)
2 Pithing Needle (1 MD)
1 Submerge
1 Blazing Archon
1 Griselbrand (3 MD)
2 Extirpate
1 Surgical
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Echoing Truth
1 Intuition
1 Tidespout

I didn't see any TNN (which seems to be the hot button issue creature) so I can't really tell you how that match up was, and how I dealt with it. I don't think reanimator really needs to worry about it to much. I would consider swapping out the crypt, the archon, and the submerge for a few counters. Maybe a flusterstorm and/or some spell pierces.

[Esper3k]

So I've been fiddling around with Reanimator again and was curious how people sideboarded against Death & Taxes?

IMO, Pithing Needles have to come in to deal with Karakas.

However, what's next is tougher to consider. Do we bring in EE/bounce to deal with yard hate? Do we bring in more Show & Tells?

I tend to think Show & Tell is bad here because of Thalias + Port choking our mana.

And then there's always what to bring out: Dazes? Thoughtseize? Maindeck Show & Tells?

[Juice11]

So I've been fiddling around with Reanimator again and was curious how people sideboarded against Death & Taxes?

IMO, Pithing Needles have to come in to deal with Karakas.

However, what's next is tougher to consider. Do we bring in EE/bounce to deal with yard hate? Do we bring in more Show & Tells?

I tend to think Show & Tell is bad here because of Thalias + Port choking our mana.

And then there's always what to bring out: Dazes? Thoughtseize? Maindeck Show & Tells?

I'm not a reanimation expert, but here's what I do.

I definitely bring in Pithing needles and I would still bring in show and tells too. 9/10 they will bring in rest in piece. I also bring in echoing truths or chain of vapors.

I would keep my FOWs and misdirection and take out my 2 dazes. I would keep my 2 thoughtseizes. I often run platinum angel/empirion, inkwell laviathan, or tidespout tyrant maindeck, so I'd take them out too. I do run 2/3 swamps, 2/3 islands, and 4 lotus petal so I have that for their land killers.

Basically, it's a race. I look for a hand with a turn 1 or turn 2 reanimation or heavy disruption/counter/draw.

[civet five]

I'm not a reanimation expert, but here's what I do.

I definitely bring in Pithing needles and I would still bring in show and tells too. 9/10 they will bring in rest in piece. I also bring in echoing truths or chain of vapors.

I would keep my FOWs and misdirection and take out my 2 dazes. I would keep my 2 thoughtseizes. I often run platinum angel/empirion, inkwell laviathan, or tidespout tyrant maindeck, so I'd take them out too. I do run 2/3 swamps, 2/3 islands, and 4 lotus petal so I have that for their land killers.

Basically, it's a race. I look for a hand with a turn 1 or turn 2 reanimation or heavy disruption/counter/draw.

Wouldn't Inkwell Leviathan or Empyrial Archangel be a decent choice, since they're immune to both Karakas and Swords to Plowshare? Especially the Leviathan, it has 11 toughness and trample, so its nigh-unkillable without an equipped Crusader

[Esper3k]

I'm also a fan of Inkwell Leviathan against D&T because of it's protection from their removal and it generally will outclass all of their guys (on top of them usually not having a very fast clock).

So far, in my testing, I've been boarding out -1 Iona, -1 Griselbrand, +1 Inkwell, +1 Sphinx for the creature package.

[Einherjer]

Boarding out Iona seems just straight out wrong vs DnT. I've won way too many games with T1 Needle on Karakas, T2 Iona vs them..

Greetings

[Fatal]

Iona is still decent target - but it very dependent on their keep and build - Mangara from vial can handle Iona even under needled Karakas.

[Esper3k]

Boarding out Iona seems just straight out wrong vs DnT. I've won way too many games with T1 Needle on Karakas, T2 Iona vs them..

Greetings


Iona is still decent target - but it very dependent on their keep and build - Mangara from vial can handle Iona even under needled Karakas.

Yeah my problem with Iona is that:

1) She doesn't actually lock them out (hilariously sad because you're playing her against a mono colored deck) due to Aether Vial. Especially with Aether Vial, they can EoT Flickerwisp her out and free up their spells for a turn or drop Mangara as Fatal mentioned (although Mangara seems less popular these days due to TNN being around).
2) She's a Legendary creature that doesn't immediately impact the board (unlike Griselbrand or Elesh Norn), so she can just get Karakas bounced without gaining you anything.
3) She actually can get raced by a Batterskull.

While Iona is alright against them, I believe it's more correct to bring in guys that are Karakas immune so you don't have to rely on sticking Pithing Needle first. If I were to keep Iona in, I'd leave the Inkwell out for her. I think Inkwell is better due to the shroud and they can't just chump it and race you.

[Juice11]

Wouldn't Inkwell Leviathan or Empyrial Archangel be a decent choice, since they're immune to both Karakas and Swords to Plowshare? Especially the Leviathan, it has 11 toughness and trample, so its nigh-unkillable without an equipped Crusader

Good point, it's also immune to mangara and stp because of shroud. I guess I would keep it in. I would probably take out a griselbrand or 2 then.

[Anselm]

About a year ago, I was looking for some kind of removal spell to kill deathrites for the sb, and also to be used against delver decks to buy time. After considering various options, I arrived at splashing for abrupt decay (it made sense at the time, I promise!). Now, I just realised that what I should have run was innocent blood. It kills deathrite t1 perfectly and it costs only 1 to resolve to buy time vs delver. I'd definitely run 2-3 of those in the sb were I to play reanimator today. Thoughts?

[Will_L]

About a year ago, I was looking for some kind of removal spell to kill deathrites for the sb, and also to be used against delver decks to buy time. After considering various options, I arrived at splashing for abrupt decay (it made sense at the time, I promise!). Now, I just realised that what I should have run was innocent blood. It kills deathrite t1 perfectly and it costs only 1 to resolve to buy time vs delver. I'd definitely run 2-3 of those in the sb were I to play reanimator today. Thoughts?

Seems reasonable. I like Disfigure more. It's targeted so you don't have to worry about a Shardless Agent or Goyf messing up your removal.

For a while I tried Deathmark. It's nice because you can kill fatties like Tarmogoyf and Knight of the Reliquary, but in the end I prefered the instant speed you get with Disfigure.

[Anselm]

I considered Disfigure, as well as Deathmark and Dismember. The thing with Disfigure is that you can't bring it in against Delver to buy time, as it only kills Delver there, not Tarmogoyf or Nimble Mongoose.

[Esper3k]

I personally like Izzet / Dimir Charm if you're looking for a maindeck answer to Deathrite Shaman, but also want to keep it somewhat usable.

There's been that Izzet Charm list that's been doing decently well on the SCG circuit. Of course, it requires you to splash a third color, but Izzet Charm is probably better than Dimir Charm for our purposes.

[kingtk3]

I personally like Izzet / Dimir Charm if you're looking for a maindeck answer to Deathrite Shaman, but also want to keep it somewhat usable.

There's been that Izzet Charm list that's been doing decently well on the SCG circuit. Of course, it requires you to splash a third color, but Izzet Charm is probably better than Dimir Charm for our purposes.

I agree on this: I initially tested dimir charm but then switched to izzet which I found so much useful. I haven't tested very much lately though and I sure need some serious testing against mana denial decks in order to understand if going down to only 2 basics (from 4) really matters, but I have to say that izzet charm is a real swiss army knife for the deck.

Thanks to Professor_Awesome for bringing it to us!

[Anselm]

Yes, I like the charms if I want maindeck answers (either that, or maindeck Show and Tells, which also seem quite common these days). I was however talking about the sideboard.

[Captain Hammer]

Hi guys,

Below is the list that I'm currently running, I would really appreciate your feedback or any needed changes or problems that you see. Thank you.

4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Animate Dead
2 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
2 Griselbrand
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sphinx of Steel Wind
1 Jin-Gixaxis, Core Augur
1 Iona, Shiled of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Blazing Archon
1 Tidesproud Tyrant
1 Island
2 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea

[kingtk3]

Hi guys,

Below is the list that I'm currently running, I would really appreciate your feedback or any needed changes or problems that you see. Thank you.

4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Animate Dead
2 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
2 Griselbrand
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sphinx of Steel Wind
1 Jin-Gixaxis, Core Augur
1 Iona, Shiled of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Blazing Archon
1 Tidesproud Tyrant
1 Island
2 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea

I think 2 thoughtseize are too few and 4 daze are too many (you want to see 1 in almost every game, but you generally don't like to see the second copy): I prefer a 3/3 split.

3 animate dead, thus going to 11 reanimation spells with only 8 discard outlet (10 if you plan to 'seize yourself, but it must be done only if you are in a pinch), may be too many and remember that it can be destroyed by adrupt decay. Maybe you can shave one for an hapless researcher: it's a discard outlet at instant speed (so lets you play around tormod's if you cast exhume and have a creature in hand), it protects your monsters from edict effects, it blocks goblin lackey and bonus style points if you kill your opponent with him and elesh-norn :)

Many people are sure that griselbrand has to be played as a 4 of, I like the 3/1 split of griselbrand and jin since there are situations where you cannot afford to pay 7 life to draw and jin may be superior thanks to his discarding ability. I think Jin's role is somewhere between griselbrand and iona (draw cards, stop combo) but I'm pretty sure I want at least 3 copies of griselbrand main deck.
I believe I would change 1 of sphinx, inkwell or archon for the third griselbrand.

So, considering that reanimator already has a positive matchup against Sneak & Show, but suffers from white decks with sword to plowshares, I would go for
-1 daze, -1 animate dead, 1 blazing archon (moving it to the side)
+1 thoughtseize, +1 hapless researcher, +1 griselbrand

I'm interested in your considerations.

[Captain Hammer]

Those are all excellent suggestions kingtk3. Thank you. I will try them out.

Alternatively, I'm considering cutting Ponder to make room for either two Hapless Researchers or two additional Thoughseizes thus bringing my potential discard outlet count to 12 without having to cut Animate Dead or Dazes both of which I've found to be extremely useful. Do you have any thoughts in regards to such a change?

[kingtk3]

I'm a fan of threat density instead cantripping: this deck wins by cheating monsters into play and attacking with them before opponent could play anything relevant, so the longer it takes to cheat the monster, the more it loses value.

I remember that during the mental misstep era people used playing only 3 brainstorm because it was statistically demostrated that the fourth copy slowed the deck (Garobidou did the maths but I don't think it's an active member anymore).

So i think that cutting ponder is legit, but I would play one more 'seize (two may be too many due to the life loss) and 1 hapless.

[Captain Hammer]

Yes I remember that. Garobadou mathematically determined the list that is most likely to combo off by turn two or three at the latest. That list was an absolute monster in terms of consistently comboing off with either Thoughtseize, Daze or FoW backing it up as well. Wonder why his list never took off.

Its a shame he is no longer active. Would love to see an updated list from him that maximizes consistency in the post griselbrand era.

[Captain Hammer]

I think 2 thoughtseize are too few and 4 daze are too many (you want to see 1 in almost every game, but you generally don't like to see the second copy): I prefer a 3/3 split.

3 animate dead, thus going to 11 reanimation spells with only 8 discard outlet (10 if you plan to 'seize yourself, but it must be done only if you are in a pinch), may be too many and remember that it can be destroyed by adrupt decay. Maybe you can shave one for an hapless researcher: it's a discard outlet at instant speed (so lets you play around tormod's if you cast exhume and have a creature in hand), it protects your monsters from edict effects, it blocks goblin lackey and bonus style points if you kill your opponent with him and elesh-norn :)

Many people are sure that griselbrand has to be played as a 4 of, I like the 3/1 split of griselbrand and jin since there are situations where you cannot afford to pay 7 life to draw and jin may be superior thanks to his discarding ability. I think Jin's role is somewhere between griselbrand and iona (draw cards, stop combo) but I'm pretty sure I want at least 3 copies of griselbrand main deck.
I believe I would change 1 of sphinx, inkwell or archon for the third griselbrand.

So, considering that reanimator already has a positive matchup against Sneak & Show, but suffers from white decks with sword to plowshares, I would go for
-1 daze, -1 animate dead, 1 blazing archon (moving it to the side)
+1 thoughtseize, +1 hapless researcher, +1 griselbrand

I'm interested in your considerations.

Based on your excellent feedback, I revised my decklist as follows...

4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Animate Dead
2 Hapless Researcher
3 Thoughtseize
4 Griselbrand
1 Jin-Gixaxis, Core Augur
1 Iona, Shiled of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tidesproud Tyrant
1 Island
2 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea

This puts the count to...

10-13 Discard Outlets (Counting the 4 Entomb, it's 13 if you count Thoughtseize, 10 otherwise)
12 Fatties (Counting the 4 Entomb)
12 Reanimators

Yes I realize that I actually increased the Animate Dead count rather than reduce it. This is because I wanted to get to the same 12/12/12 split Garobadou's calculations advocated in favor of and even with its vulnerability to Decay, Animate Dead is still the third best reanimate spell the deck has access to bar none. It doesn't cause loss of life like reanimate and it doesn't suck in the mirror matchup like Exhume. The fact that the first copy can be blown up is all the reason to play more, not less imo. Given the existence of Decay, one just has to be more vigilant about trying to Thoughtseize prior to casting it when you're facing down a Bayou.

[Esper3k]

I'm not a fan of Jin-Gitaxias these days but I do like that you didn't cut any Griselbrands for him.

I think the direction you're taking the maindeck with going all in on the ultra aggressive graveyard plan is interesting (like the Izzet Charm lists) and I'll be interested to hear about your results.

[Darklingske]

If your going all in on the reanimatepath, would you not be better of with Goryo's Vengeance instead of the animate dead? Okay, it's just one shot, but you are no longer vulnerable to abrupt decay. Just my 5 cents.

[Captain Hammer]

That's an interesting thought but I wish to play reanimator, not TinFins. The only way Groyo's could work in this deck is if you opt to play 4 Griselbrand + 4 Jin-Gixaxis as the creatures. If you opt to do that, I supposed you could end up with an interesting Reanimator and TinFins hybrid, but that's not what I'm interested in either.

Hapless Researcher ended up a bit too inconsistent for my tastes, so this is where I ended up instead...

//Produce (17)
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
2 Island

//Draw (8)
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study

//Disrupt (11)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
3 Daze

//Combo (16)
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Animate Dead

//Kill (8)
4 Griselbrand
1 Jin-Gixaxis, Core Augur
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tidesprout Tyrant


Thoughts?

[kingtk3]

The creatures are the same as mine, except for the fourth griselbrand which I shifted with a Grave titan in order to have a good option against liliana and karakas.

The problem I see is that you literally have no outs against deathrite shaman OTD: since you don't play show and tell main deck you have to use the grave but you don't have any mean (apart fow) to deal with DRS nor the speed bump that lotus petals gives to ingnore it.

I imagine that in G2 you'll have cards to deal with him but I think that in G1 DRS would be a pain for you, and it's a card that it's widely played.

Maybe going down 2 lands and 2 animate dead for 4 lotus petal would be an idea? I found the shaman very less frightening when I can afford 2 mana on turn 1.

[Captain Hammer]

Thank you for the feedback. Lotus Petal is a solid idea.

Ok, will go...
+4 Lotus Petal
-1 Swamp
-1 Island
-1 Thoughtseize
-1 Animate Dead

With 4 Lotus Petal now in place, I'm almost certainly also going to try...
-1 Underground Sea
-3 Thoughtseize
-1 Animate Dead
+1 Badlands
+4 Faithless Looting
... to increase the turn one combo potential even further.

I'm surprised this isn't a common route to take. More consistently being able to go off one turn earlier seems like one of the best ways to dodge the majority of the hate.





As an aside, it's a damn shame that all the best discard outlets (aside from Entomb) are blue/red.

Would be absolutely amazing if I could get away with playing Dark Ritual instead of Lotus Petal to dramatically improve the odds of going off turn one. But the only way that would be viable was if Careful Study or Faithless Looting, or hell even Hapless Researcher were black.

Makes sense about the utility of Grave Titan.

Will also consider going...
-1 Griselbrand
+1 Grave Titan

[kingtk3]

If you're splashing red you could try, as some of us already do, izzet charm as an "intelligent" discard outlet: it is slower than faithless, but is an instant (thus enabling the exhume trick), can counter a bunch of stuff (I'm looking at you RIP) and can kill DRS.
It doesn't have flashback but I don't think you'll be too eager to fire it multiple time: remeber that it's card disadvantage.

However this will bring your list very close to professor_awesome's (and mine too), which are more controlling.
For a faster list I think faithless is correct but I would also up the creature count because you don't want to fire it blindly: you want a creature in hand before casting looting/study. Maybe you can cut a daze and a brainstorm to add 2 creatures, but this is theorycrafting.

[Captain Hammer]

If you're splashing red you could try, as some of us already do, izzet charm as an "intelligent" discard outlet: it is slower than faithless, but is an instant (thus enabling the exhume trick), can counter a bunch of stuff (I'm looking at you RIP) and can kill DRS.
It doesn't have flashback but I don't think you'll be too eager to fire it multiple time: remeber that it's card disadvantage.

However this will bring your list very close to professor_awesome's (and mine too), which are more controlling.
For a faster list I think faithless is correct but I would also up the creature count because you don't want to fire it blindly: you want a creature in hand before casting looting/study. Maybe you can cut a daze and a brainstorm to add 2 creatures, but this is theorycrafting.

I'm aware of the Izzet lists but like you said, that's a better choice for slower more controllish builds.

I also have thought about upping the creature count by 2 and as you indicate, the only remaining place to make cuts are Brainstorm/Daze/FoW.

Good suggestions. Taking them into account, the proposed list would look as such...

//Produce (19)
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
1 Island

//Draw (11)
4 Faithless Looting
4 Careful Study
3 Brainstorm

//Disrupt (6)
4 Force of Will
2 Daze

//Combo (14)
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Animate Dead

//Kill (10)
4 Griselbrand
1 Jin-Gixaxis, Core Augur
1 Tidesprout Tyrant
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Grave Titan

With only 16 blue cards to support FoW, I would probably be well served to cut one or two of the seven non-blue creatures in the above list for a blue Sphinx of Steel Wind and possibly a second Jin-Gixaxis, but I can't decide which one(s) to cut.

[kingtk3]

I think I would cut the fourth griselbrand because the other creatures just cover each a different role, but I will first try to play the deck as it is to see how it goes: now's playtesting time!!! ^_^

[practical joke]

Hmmm,

First things I see on the list that makes me doubt.

to many dorks in there. 10 is a LOT. I don't think I've ever ran more than 7 at most during a single game.
you are quite all-in right now, with hardly any consistency when it gets cut off ( due to discard or a well-placed counter)
I'd suggest running ponder or preordain instead of adding red.
Green is a better option to play because it allows all the good sideboard options you might want/need, 2 colors is enough nowadays though.

so if you take down 2 creatures and 4 lootings, you can add 3-4 cantrips and add those 4 thoughtseizes back for sure ( dunno where to grab the 7th spot, but thoughtseize are pretty good)
you'll be surprised how many players will reveal their hand before you even announced a target for it.

It looks like it slows your deck down, but you'll get a bigger chance to get a creature YOU desire instead of one of these 10.

[Captain Hammer]

Hmmm,

First things I see on the list that makes me doubt.

to many dorks in there. 10 is a LOT. I don't think I've ever ran more than 7 at most during a single game.
you are quite all-in right now, with hardly any consistency when it gets cut off ( due to discard or a well-placed counter)
I'd suggest running ponder or preordain instead of adding red.
Green is a better option to play because it allows all the good sideboard options you might want/need, 2 colors is enough nowadays though.

so if you take down 2 creatures and 4 lootings, you can add 3-4 cantrips and add those 4 thoughtseizes back for sure ( dunno where to grab the 7th spot, but thoughtseize are pretty good)
you'll be surprised how many players will reveal their hand before you even announced a target for it.

It looks like it slows your deck down, but you'll get a bigger chance to get a creature YOU desire instead of one of these 10.

I went with 10 to maximize the deck's speed and maximize the utility of Careful Study and Faithless Looting. That list was designed to maximize the incidence of either having an Entomb or a creature along with a cantripping discard outlet. Faithless Looting is a cantrip in this deck (you can try to argue that it's not card neutral but it actually is, it just happens to put that card directly in your yard which is precisely where you wanted it). More importantly, it digs into your deck to find you a reanimate spell.

It sounds like you would like something like this?

//Produce (18)
3 Lotus Petal
3 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Island

//Broken (11)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze

//Discard (12)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb

//Revive (12)
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Animate Dead

//Kill (8)
4 Griselbrand
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

I'm a fan of this build as well since it hits the golden 12/12/12 ratio for each piece of the combo. Yes, you ideally do not want to use Thoughtseize on yourself, but when you have no other way to get a creature into your yard, it's nice having that option. Just don't use it for that purpose when facing off against an untapped Bayou and your only reanimate outlet is an Animate Dead. As long as you avoid using it in that scenario, Thoughtseizing yourself when it's your only means of comboing off is definitely not a bad play.

[practical joke]

Looks solid to me, I won't discuss about creatures, which is preferences and meta depending though.

[e_hawk77]

Just got back into legacy and pick this deck as the starting spot. I was wondering if there is a side boarding primer somewhere on this site? I went 4-1 tonight with the deck but feel like my one loss was due to not knowing how to board correctly.

[Juice11]

In the builds that are splashing red for izzet charm, is anyone also adding burning wish? I feel like it might be useful. I typically run a traditional ub list but I've been messing around with Grixis

Here's my list as of now:

Creatures
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 meta choices Inwell Leviathan/ Empyrial Archangel/ Platinum Angel/ Angel of Despair/ Grave Titan

Lands

2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Badlands
3 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Volcanic Island
1 Gemstone Mine

Spells

1 Animate Dead
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
3 Izzet Charm
3 Careful Study
3 Burning Wish
3 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Thoughtseize
1 Misdirection
2 Ponder
1 Show and Tell

SB
2 show and tell
1 Daze
1 intuition
1 Cunning wish
1 personal tutor
1 Thoughtseize
1 Exhume
1 Careful Study
1 Izzet charm
3 pithing needle
2 Surgical extraction

[lavafrogg]

In the builds that are splashing red for izzet charm, is anyone also adding burning wish? I feel like it might be useful. I typically run a traditional ub list but I've been messing around with Grixis

Here's my list as of now:

Creatures
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 meta choices Inwell Leviathan/ Empyrial Archangel/ Platinum Angel/ Angel of Despair/ Grave Titan

Lands

2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Badlands
3 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Volcanic Island
1 Gemstone Mine

Spells

1 Animate Dead
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
3 Izzet Charm
3 Careful Study
3 Burning Wish
3 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Thoughtseize
1 Misdirection
2 Ponder
1 Show and Tell

SB
2 show and tell
1 Daze
1 intuition
1 Cunning wish
1 personal tutor
1 Thoughtseize
1 Exhume
1 Careful Study
1 Izzet charm
3 pithing needle
2 Surgical extraction

Burning wish goes and gets any part of the combo and disruption/protection. If you are playing red you should be playing wish.

[kingtk3]

Burning wish goes and gets any part of the combo and disruption/protection. If you are playing red you should be playing wish.

Burnign wish doesn't get entomb nor a creature to discard, so it doesn't get you any part of the combo.

Burning wish gives you a reanimation spell, a discard outlet to use when you already have a fatty in hand or a discard spell. So you can say that adds a little of consistency, but in the end you still need to draw a creature or entomb.

On the other hand, BW slows the deck down of a couple of turn (aproximatevely) and put a serious constraint on the side board.

I don't know if the tradeoff is in favor of BW but I have the feeling that's not the case.

[Kich867]

Burning wish goes and gets any part of the combo and disruption/protection. If you are playing red you should be playing wish.

Burning wish is insanely slow, if you're playing red you should be playing either Izzet Charm or Faithless Looting and maybe REB's in the board and that's about the extent of it. Wishing on turn 2 basically sets you up for like a turn 4 reanimation--I think most reanimator players were hoping to have won by then.

[Anselm]

Captain Hammer: If you just want black discard, in order to be able to run Dark Rituals, you might want to try Putrid Imp or (as I just thought of it) Cabal Therapy. Your all-in approach is certainly interesting, although personally I'm far too much in love with Ponder to play it. (I'm running ANT at the moment, but Reanimator is my backup deck for combo-heavy and Karakas-poor metas, if such would appear.)

[Esper3k]

I'm not a fan of BW in Reanimator either. A large part of Reanimator's power is the speed in which you can go off. The tradeoff for what you gain by playing BW at the cost of that speed is just not worth it, imo.

I've been liking a few Ponders as well. It adds a little more consistency to the deck for when you're looking for that single combo piece to finish your hand as well as add more blue cards for FoW, which we can have problems with if you're running too many reanimation spells + hand disruption.

[GalacticHitchHiker]

I've just picked up this deck, and have been going over the sideboard choices. I built my list referencing the discussion from this thread and the most recent Top 16 list (15th Place from SCG Providence (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=60996))

I'm getting ready to take it to a local event next week, and I think I'm happy with most of my choices, except for one. The SCG list I linked plays a Bloodghast in the sideboard, which at first glance seems nice against removal heavy decks, but I've been thinking a Grave Titan might be a better fight for the slot. Am I missing anything with that assessment?

[pochy]

Top 16 list (15th Place from SCG Providence (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=60996))



hi guys! Considering a list like the one linked here ^ , i'd ask to some of you what would be your side-in/side-out against these matchups:
- UW
- elves
- ant
- bant (nemesis)
- patriot (nemesis)

I'm asking this cause i was used to play with a list without Petals (and with more creatures, also 2x hapless researcher), and now i'm a bit disoriented in game 2 and 3 cause of sideboard choiches. Are Petals something to cut after side? or not?
Please i need some help on these points, expecially for reducing the testing time

[Darklingske]

Hello Pochy. I would side as following against elves:
-1 TS, -2 daze, -1 Animate dead for +2 City, +2 S&T
Reasoning behind this: Daze & TS loose value on the draw & they will probably bring in ooze & therapy or TS. Siding as such makes you less vulnerable to GYhate and speeds up your combo.
Against ANT: -2 daze, -1 Tidespout for +1 Duress, +1 FS, +1 Coffin Purge
Just my 5 cents :smile:

[practical joke]

hi guys! Considering a list like the one linked here ^ , i'd ask to some of you what would be your side-in/side-out against these matchups:
- UW Cards that can be used, inkwell leviathan, and in my case xantid swarm, tough nut, need to be aggressive. early iona on white could be enough if you can cut down their jayce
- elves iona, elesh norn, chain of vapor
- ant Again, iona and the 7/7 black guy, duress effects, maybe even the GY hate against some versions
- bant (nemesis) haven't seen the new lists
- patriot (nemesis) haven't seen the new lists

I'm asking this cause i was used to play with a list without Petals (and with more creatures, also 2x hapless researcher), and now i'm a bit disoriented in game 2 and 3 cause of sideboard choiches. Are Petals something to cut after side? or not?
Very rarely you take down petals: reason they speed up your deck and make you win. It's like cutting down a land for this deck though
Cards taht see the cut often: creatures, 1-off of playsets. like 1 thoughtseize, 1 ponder etc, counters like daze and fow
Please i need some help on these points, expecially for reducing the testing time

[pochy]

thanks for the suggestions guys :)
so i should never cuts petals?
so against UW, should i side in only inkwell? or maybe also other things? i think there would be some very powerful cards against UW (needle on karakas/sensei for example)
considering this as a sideboard example:
3 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Ashen Rider
1 Bloodghast
1 Coffin Purge
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
1 Wipe Away
1 Duress
2 Show and Tell
2 City of Traitors

If i watch to the macth, i can see Needle, leviathan, fluster, duress, show&tell very useful, but that wuold be a +8 cards, maybe to much for finding something to cut for them. Probably 4 daze, 1 elesh, 1 ponder, 1 exhume, and one more if we are on the draw? ... and if we are on the play?

thanks in advice

[Esper3k]

Re: Lotus Petal - The way I see it, since Reanimator is not a combo deck that wins immediately (vs say Storm or Omnitell), waiting longer generally does not help us. Lotus Petals speed us up and allow us to go off potentially on T1 or T2 with greater consistency, so I would never cut them.

Against UW, I would not bring in Pithing Needle. Generally, they're going to be only running Karakas as a 1-of, so it's not that likely they'll see it early enough to matter. More likely what you'll have to deal with is RIP, so bounce / Show & Tell needs to come in against them.

Speaking of Show & Tell, has anyone else been not very happy with it? I don't like how it pulls our deck in two opposite directions with Careful Study wanting us to dump creatures from our hands while S&T wants us to keep them in our hands.

[kingtk3]

@pochy: I second Esper3k statements.

@Esper3k: I felt the same about S&T and now it can be found only in my side as a 3-of. In this way it is less luckster because when I side them in I also side some careful study out.

[zmattk]

Speaking of Show & Tell, has anyone else been not very happy with it? I don't like how it pulls our deck in two opposite directions with Careful Study wanting us to dump creatures from our hands while S&T wants us to keep them in our hands.

This is my exact thought of Show and Tell in the deck. I hate it in the main deck, I feel its presence in the deck forces you to make bad plays/keep bad hands. I think it's perfectly fine in games 2 and 3 because I generally am boarding out some amount of the graveyard part of the combo to fit in anti-hate and Show and Tells. But the existence of Deathrite Shaman sort of warrants it. Not only because it's graveyard hate on its own, but generally a deck with Deathrite Shaman can also threaten you with Abrupt Decay which essentially counters Animate Dead, which is what would replace Show and Tell in the main.

So I see us having two options, one is ignore Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay, and play Animate Deads in the main again. This gives us the strongest possible maindeck configuration and we should be able to most other decks quite easily. I can see this being a real option going forward short term with Jund and Shardless BUG seeing less play. It all kind of depends on how much Deathblade resurges in the upcoming months.

The other option is just keep the Show and Tells in the main to play against maindeck hate. We have a slightly weaker deck, but a little more versatility and aren't automatically dead to an early Deathrite/Scavenging Ooze. I'm personally in favor with having the stronger main deck. The reason we play Lotus Petal is to speed the deck up, but what good is that if our deck is disjointed? It's not like we can't beat an active Deathrite anyway. It just takes a little sculpting. Ooze is much harder to beat, but luckily there are less decks playing it in the main right now and just as few Green Sun Zeniths.

[Esper3k]

I've personally been going back to testing Izzet Charm in place of the Show & Tells. I'm in love with the idea on paper, but am still trying to decide how I like it in practice.

As I see it:

Pros: all 3 modes are great for us
Cons: Weakens our manabase since it requires us to play red

[zmattk]

I've personally been going back to testing Izzet Charm in place of the Show & Tells. I'm in love with the idea on paper, but am still trying to decide how I like it in practice.

As I see it:

Pros: all 3 modes are great for us
Cons: Weakens our manabase since it requires us to play red

Would you mind sharing your list? I'm curious to see what your mana base looks like. I've never tested with red due to my lack of red duals. But I don't hate the idea of Izzet Charm, mostly I just don't like that adding red doesn't do much outside of the charms though.

[Darklingske]

If you are playing red for Izzet Charm I think there is an interesting card to put in the side. I know it has been discussed here a long time ago, but the card flies under the radar again. I'm talking about stronghold gambit (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=21357) Has anyone ever played with this?

[Esper3k]

Would you mind sharing your list? I'm curious to see what your mana base looks like. I've never tested with red due to my lack of red duals. But I don't hate the idea of Izzet Charm, mostly I just don't like that adding red doesn't do much outside of the charms though.

Current maindeck I'm fiddling around with:

// Lands
4 [B] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [5E] Swamp (1)
1 [ZEN] Island (4a)
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [B] Volcanic Island
1 [R] Badlands

// Creatures
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 [NPH] Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 [AVR] Griselbrand
1 [M11] Grave Titan
1 [NPH] Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [ARC] Reanimate
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Entomb
4 [BRB] Exhume
4 [OD] Careful Study
4 [V09] Lotus Petal
4 [DD2] Daze
2 [B] Animate Dead
2 [RTR] Izzet Charm
1 [M12] Ponder

A few notes:

1) After playing Reanimator for awhile, I found that I really hated Thoughtseize / Duress as a protection spell. My problem with it was that I was having too many games where I'd want to go off... but couldn't do it if I cast a Thoughtseize that turn. So, I'm playing around with a 4 Daze configuration. I even had a 1-of Misdirection at one point but with the point I'm going to make in part 2, I had to cut it.

2) With the Izzet Charms, that gives me 10 "dump something in the yard" spells, which made me want to up the Reanimation spells as well, thus the 2-of Animate Dead, giving me 10 of each. With the 6 Careful Study effects, I'm testing 8 fatties instead of the standard 7. I'd like to go up to 3 Izzet Charms, but I don't want to cut any Careful Study (because it's part of the key to going off on T1 or T2). I'd also love to fit a second Ponder in there (again, I used to have 2 in earlier lists I've been playing) and that second Animate Dead may eventually go back to becoming a Ponder.

This list aims to go off on T1 or T2 with either FoW or Daze as protection. Playing more Dazes also helps with the blue card count for FoW (which hurts when we're playing all these black reanimation spells on top of black hand disruption).

[PirateKing]

I have been fighting S&T for the longest time. I finally relented and put 1 in the main and 3 in the side, as a stubborn acceptance to all the lists running 2 and 2 having success at large events. And even in game 2 when all 4 are in, I feel no more capable than before. In game 1 i feel the surprise and speed is our main strength, and sacrificing that to counter hate is fine, but only as much as is required of us.

I tried a sideboard of bounce and discard to preempt or subvert the hate brought in against us, and feel like I had just as much success then as now. I can only conclude that I am a mediocre player and that S&T isn't as necessary as other would lead you to believe.

[Esper3k]

If you are playing red for Izzet Charm I think there is an interesting card to put in the side. I know it has been discussed here a long time ago, but the card flies under the radar again. I'm talking about stronghold gambit (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=21357) Has anyone ever played with this?

I think Stronghold Gambit is a very neat card, but not sure that it's good for Reanimator unless you're playing a super discard heavy list?


I have been fighting S&T for the longest time. I finally relented and put 1 in the main and 3 in the side, as a stubborn acceptance to all the lists running 2 and 2 having success at large events. And even in game 2 when all 4 are in, I feel no more capable than before. In game 1 i feel the surprise and speed is our main strength, and sacrificing that to counter hate is fine, but only as much as is required of us.

I tried a sideboard of bounce and discard to preempt or subvert the hate brought in against us, and feel like I had just as much success then as now. I can only conclude that I am a mediocre player and that S&T isn't as necessary as other would lead you to believe.

The only matchup I can really think of where I'd bring in Show & Tell is against Jund style decks where they don't really tax our manabase and don't really have countermagic (ie, their only real way to interact is through hand disruption & yard hate). Of course, Show & Tell does make their hand disruption and REBs better...

[practical joke]

I see people having issues with deathrite shaman and the like,

I've always run a near similar sideboard which changed with the meta, however I prefered to use a well-timed entomb or chain of vapor to solve a lot of issues. ( same goes for discard and the other disruption you are running)


However there's 1 card that can be used against a multitude of annoying things:
Disfigure

It's cheap, on color, kills the majority of hatebears and most importantly instant speed.

[Stryfo]

For those of you cutting SnT from the maindeck for cards like Izzet charm, something I've been experimenting with and loving since GP Denver is Echoing Truth mainboard, It is not as obviously versatile as Izzet charm but it does keep our mana base stronger while dealing with troublesome non-creature, non-land permanents as well as token hoards.

[TinkerRobot]

I picked this deck up a few months ago and proceeded to 0-3 drop at Grand Prix DC.

Then I went home and practiced for a few weeks.

Tonight I won a 17 player local event and earned a minty Revised Bayou.

4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
1 Island
3 Griselbrand
1 Grave Titan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh-Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Entomb
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
2 Izzet Charm
3 Careful Study
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Lotus Petal
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead

-side-

1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Dark Ritual
1 Flusterstorm
4 Show and Tell
1 Massacre
1 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Inkwell Leviathan

I played against

Dredge - win
Elves - win
Jund - win
Pox - loss
UWR Delver - loss
UWR Delver - win
High Tide - win
Jund - win

Access to Izzet Charm and REB is powerful, but I'm still not sure if making the deck weaker to wastelands is worth it.
Grave Titan main was super impressive all day. 10 power across 3 bodies, only costing 6 mana (6 life for Reanimate) made it a real winner.
I also think Engineered Explosives is a must, and Chancellor of the Annex's pseudo-Daze ability won me 2 games.

[PirateKing]

I picked this deck up a few months ago and proceeded to 0-3 drop at Grand Prix DC.

Then I went home and practiced for a few weeks.

Tonight I won a 17 player local event and earned a minty Revised Bayou.

4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
1 Island
3 Griselbrand
1 Grave Titan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh-Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Entomb
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
2 Izzet Charm
3 Careful Study
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Lotus Petal
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead

-side-

1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Dark Ritual
1 Flusterstorm
4 Show and Tell
1 Massacre
1 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Inkwell Leviathan

I played against

Dredge - win
Elves - win
Jund - win
Pox - loss
UWR Delver - loss
UWR Delver - win
High Tide - win
Jund - win

Access to Izzet Charm and REB is powerful, but I'm still not sure if making the deck weaker to wastelands is worth it.
Grave Titan main was super impressive all day. 10 power across 3 bodies, only costing 6 mana (6 life for Reanimate) made it a real winner.
I also think Engineered Explosives is a must, and Chancellor of the Annex's pseudo-Daze ability won me 2 games.

Congratulations on the finish. Regarding your list: What conditions warrant bringing in the Dark Rituals? As well at the Chancellor. Having only a single Massacre and EE, relying on card filter to find them, how successful were you?

Thanks.

[kingsey]

Hey guys,

I've been playing tin fins reanimator for awhile now, and after a few bad runs I'm thinking of switching to regular reanimator. Questions

1. What do you think makes normal reanimator more consistent then tin fins? Or do you think they are the same?

2. Against the tier decks now do you just get grizzelbees everytime or what matches still warrant Iyona? Death and Taxes?

3. I've been reading about the red splash. I like the idea of running basics. Lots of tempo in my area. How great is it?

Thanks for your time :smile:

[JamieW89]

Won the Dutch legacy nationals (89 people?) yesterday with Reanimator. Much of it can be attributed to my pairings though, Affinity, Goblins and triple Elves is somewhat unusual. I had not touched the deck before, and I'm sure my play was sloppy, but the deck certainly does some broken things.

My pairings:
Affinity 2-1 (lost a game to tezz ultimate which was fast enough because of a spell pierce)
Goblins 2-0
Death Blade 1-2 (seems like a fairly weak MU, this match did feel winnable though)
Elves 2-1 (lost a game to DRS)
Elves 2-1 (lost a game because of him playing ooze after I needled DRS, turned out he tapped non-elves for Heritage Druid though)
Elves 2-0
UWR ID
-
UWR 2-1 (lost g1, might have won if I had delayed all plays by a turn)
R Painter 2-0
Finals opponent had dropped (we split prices), would have been BUG or TES

My list:
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tidespout Tyrant

4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
2 Daze

4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
3 Ponder

4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
3 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
2 Show and Tell

3 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp

Sideboard
2 City of Traitors
2 Show and Tell
1 Ashen Rider
1 Blazing Archon
3 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
2 Flusterstorm
2 Duress

[Arsenal]

Hey guys,

I've been playing tin fins reanimator for awhile now, and after a few bad runs I'm thinking of switching to regular reanimator. Questions

1. What do you think makes normal reanimator more consistent then tin fins? Or do you think they are the same?

2. Against the tier decks now do you just get grizzelbees everytime or what matches still warrant Iyona? Death and Taxes?

3. I've been reading about the red splash. I like the idea of running basics. Lots of tempo in my area. How great is it?

Thanks for your time :smile:

1.) Due to our narrowed focus, we always have hands that either have the combo + protection, cantrips to find the combo + protection or combo + cantrips to find protection. Because Tin Fins has a 4th element to it, Storm (and it's required mana spells like Dark Ritual + Chrome Mox), we avoid hands like Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, land, Children of Korlis, Thoughtseize, blank, blank. In Reanimator, you often are a single piece away from comboing out whereas with Tin Fins, you may find yourself 2+ pieces away.

2.) I still pretty much go for Grizz everytime. One activation, even if he gets StPed or bounced, is often enough to put me so far ahead, they can't come back.

3.) I'm still on the standard UB version.

[Dia_Bot]

Congratz Jamie! I can see why you did play reanimator after your BOM result.

PS: great pairings you had there, you probably would have crushed with ANT too

[Esper3k]

Congratulations on the finish. Regarding your list: What conditions warrant bringing in the Dark Rituals? As well at the Chancellor. Having only a single Massacre and EE, relying on card filter to find them, how successful were you?

Thanks.

I've seen Dark Rituals in some sideboards too and was considering it instead of City of Traitors. I believe it's there for the non-countermagic decks where you can just board for more speed (although I'm not certain that's necessary?). It seems like it could be helpful vs the tempo decks too to power through their taxing countermagic.


Hey guys,

I've been playing tin fins reanimator for awhile now, and after a few bad runs I'm thinking of switching to regular reanimator. Questions

1. What do you think makes normal reanimator more consistent then tin fins? Or do you think they are the same?

2. Against the tier decks now do you just get grizzelbees everytime or what matches still warrant Iyona? Death and Taxes?

3. I've been reading about the red splash. I like the idea of running basics. Lots of tempo in my area. How great is it?

Thanks for your time :smile:

1) Arsenal gives a good answer to this. Also, in general, the faster a combo deck is, it is usually less consistent or less protected. A large part of Reanimator's power over most other combo decks is its ability to protect itself as well through free counterspells + discard vs most other combo decks usually only have one of the two available to it.

2. Griselbrand should be your general go-to guy unless you have a particular situation you need your other toolbox guys for. Iona is pretty much there for the combo matchups - she's actually surprisingly bad vs Death & Taxes due to their ability to still function under Aether Vial and the multiple Karakas they play. Elesh Norn is usually better because even if they Karakas or Plow her, you're going to wipe their board (barring a Batterskull or SoFI equipped guy). Ideally, you want something that can't be Karakas'd against them anyways.

3. Still playing around with the red splash and enjoying it. You can still run basics, just trimming down to 1 Island, 1 Swamp instead of the normal 1/2 split.


Won the Dutch legacy nationals (89 people?) yesterday with Reanimator. Much of it can be attributed to my pairings though, Affinity, Goblins and triple Elves is somewhat unusual. I had not touched the deck before, and I'm sure my play was sloppy, but the deck certainly does some broken things.

My pairings:
Affinity 2-1 (lost a game to tezz ultimate which was fast enough because of a spell pierce)
Goblins 2-0
Death Blade 1-2 (seems like a fairly weak MU, this match did feel winnable though)
Elves 2-1 (lost a game to DRS)
Elves 2-1 (lost a game because of him playing ooze after I needled DRS, turned out he tapped non-elves for Heritage Druid though)
Elves 2-0
UWR ID
-
UWR 2-1 (lost g1, might have won if I had delayed all plays by a turn)
R Painter 2-0
Finals opponent had dropped (we split prices), would have been BUG or TES

My list:
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tidespout Tyrant

4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
2 Daze

4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
3 Ponder

4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
3 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
2 Show and Tell

3 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp

Sideboard
2 City of Traitors
2 Show and Tell
1 Ashen Rider
1 Blazing Archon
3 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
2 Flusterstorm
2 Duress

Congrats on your finish!

[Esper3k]

So I'm on the draw, game 1, vs Esper Stoneblade and I see this hand:

Force of Will, Brainstorm, Careful Study, Daze, Entomb, Reanimate, Lotus Petal.

I end up keeping and get punished when I don't draw a land and my Brainstorm finds none, but I'm curious how many others would've kept it?

I understand it was greedy but it was hard to pass up the stone cold nuts if I draw a land...

[kingtk3]

I would have not keep that hand because I hate hands that rely on brainstorm to do something.
If you had ponder instead maybe I would have kept, and if you had a creature in hand I surely had: my reasoning is that in that case you'd play study, bin the creature and see 2 more cards (3 considering the draw for the turn) and don't brain-lock yourself if you don't find a land, and in the process you are also halfway in the combo.

In the end this deck requires guts to play, but the reward is high.

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

[jcsy]

I would have kept it, considering real bad luck if I don't hit a land in 3 cards seen. But we play like 13-15 lands, which is low count and the chances are not perfect

-----------------------------------------------------
HTC EVO 3D GSM
JB4.3.1 | 27 October 2013
Johnny 798 RAM | Deadline
-----------------------------------------------------

[Esper3k]

Yeah, I know it was greedy. I was just curious how many people would've kept it.

The match didn't matter since I was already a lock for T4 even with a loss, so I figured #YOLO :)

Another question given the resurgence of the Stoneblade decks - other than Griselbrand, are there any other fatties we can think of that are very strong against them?

Traditionally, I think we use Inkwell Leviathan against blue control, but against the Stoneforge Mystics, I don't like how Batterskull can race it.

I actually like Sphinx of the Steel Wind in theory because their only outs are StP or Jace, but I was wondering if anyone had come any silver bullet creatures against them?

[kingtk3]

If your concern is batterskull alone I think empyreal archangel may be of help, but still I think that leviathan is better.

[Esper3k]

If your concern is batterskull alone I think empyreal archangel may be of help, but still I think that leviathan is better.

I wish Archangel was just a little bit better or had Vigilance. My problem with it has always been that it's actually pretty bad in a lot of racing situations because oftentimes your opponent can just kill it on the counterattack.

I was actually looking at Stormtide Leviathan to steal some tech from Vintage. Akroma, Angel of Fury looks promising against the Uw/X decks, especially if you're on the red splash. Thoughts?

[Worldslayer]

I wish Archangel was just a little bit better or had Vigilance. My problem with it has always been that it's actually pretty bad in a lot of racing situations because oftentimes your opponent can just kill it on the counterattack.

I was actually looking at Stormtide Leviathan to steal some tech from Vintage. Akroma, Angel of Fury looks promising against the Uw/X decks, especially if you're on the red splash. Thoughts?

If we're still on the "against Esperblade" conversation, I found that the Griselbrand/Iona is usually just the best thing you can do. Sometimes Elesh Norn still does work as a plague wind they need a removal spell for, and I had pretty excellent results with Grave Titan in the matchup, as it dodges Lilliana and still leaves 4+ power behind if he goes farming. Stormtide is an option I wouldn't go with for two reasons:

1) It dies to literally every removal spell Esper has, and is generally vulnerable (though less so recently as the current Blade flavor is UWR, and they only have swords).
2) Blazing Archon does this thing's job while also being super relevant against Sneak and Show.

Inkwell was okay, but felt kind of underwhelming really. Akroma is a thing in the UWR meta, I suppose, but without lifelink it might actually be possible for them to race her more often than I'm comfortable with. She's basically a more vulnerable Inkwell that doesn't pitch to force and can actually be removed (double bolt), so in that regard I'd say run Inkwell if considering Akroma, Angel of Fury.

All this said, this assumes we can't Griselbrand for whatever reason, which is my go-to, followed by Iona on (usually white, black if I know their only out is Lilly). Elesh Norn can sometimes pick up the pieces in a drawn out game when they've burned their removal, as the wrath of their DRS/SFM/Geist/Truename/whatever they're running is a pretty solid way to tilt drawn out games back in our favor. Grave Titan, as a dude that's not immune but very resistant to Jace and STP, and IS fairly immune to Lilliana of the Veil, ranks around where Iona is, and I will often go for him over the nice angel lady if I'm playing blind. If I can't find and protect a Griselbrand for whatever reason, I don't mind finding and protecting him, since one attack and they're just incredibly far behind even if they manage to pull something. He whallops.


tl;dr - Silver bullet is Grislybacons.




In reference to the ballsy hand awhile above, I would've kept it. No risk, etc.