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JDK
04-03-2013, 09:05 AM
Modern has become quite the interesting format with a lot of different archetypes. In order to keep track of which of those decks are doing well and which don't I thought about posting a breakdown of the meta-game. Like Nihil Credo does for Legacy (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5460-DTBF-Philosophy-amp-Deck-Selection/page3), but every two months instead of every single one, because Modern isn't as popular and has fewer tournaments going on except for PTQ seasons, but I think there is a need for a somewhat current breakdown in order to obtain the best ratio of relevance and accuracy (which sets this one apart from Feline's 'Tier'-thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25280-Tier-Modern-Decks-Lists-Prices-etc-Started-Janurary-1st-2013!) and TheCouncil's monthly rankings (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tierdecks.php?format=Modern)).

February/March 2013
http://i.imgur.com/XfVDX5s.png (http://imgur.com/XfVDX5s)

Fix: "Punkte" means score
http://i.imgur.com/97tH6qT.png (http://imgur.com/97tH6qT)

Major Tournaments:
Grand Prix San Diego 2013 - 17/03/2013 (http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10403) - Winner: Second Breakfast

As you can see UWR Midrange is by far the most popular and successful archetype followed by Jund and Birthing Pod (Kiki-Jiki). Twin, Affinity and RG Tron are the follow-up candidates, although Zoo has made a comeback thanks to the printing of Burning-Tree Emissary and some others (e.g. Experiment One).


Source: TheCouncil's monthly rankings (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tierdecks.php?format=Modern)

Koby
04-03-2013, 03:30 PM
Good work H3llsp4wn, this is really helpful to gauge where Modern sits right now.


I just wish WotC would stop banning stuff and let the format stabilize.

Or just reprint Force of Will. Either solution is fine with me.

This is so helpful to the discussion of the hard work H3llsp4wn did. Thanks for contributing meaningfully.

Arsenal
04-03-2013, 03:37 PM
Looking at UWR (I also play it), I don't see any one piece that you'd off the bat say "way too powerful". Maybe a case could be made for SCM, but still I'd say "no". If UWR continues to do well, you think Wizards will ban it/cripple it like they did with Jund?

Phoenix Ignition
04-03-2013, 09:46 PM
Sorry, what are the axes on this graph?

Is it just decks that made the top 8? If so it's hard to say that UWR is doing the best as field saturation can make even the worse decks have a high frequency of placement.

I'm also wondering where UWR aggro is? I would have assumed that would be a different category since it functions pretty differently than UWR Midrange (I'm thinking midrange is more the Kitchen Finks + Restoration Angel, and aggro is Steppe Lynx or Goblin Guides). If they actually are combined right now I think that WUR Midrange would still be the top played deck, but not by nearly as much.

I don't really see a reason to ban anything UWR decks right now, but I'd love to see some win percentages on them compared to the rest of the format.

JDK
04-04-2013, 06:44 AM
I realized the table says "Punkte" (german for 'points' or 'score'). The graph is just a visual representation of the table, to illustrate the difference in points. The points are given by TheCouncil's "Tier deck"-system (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tierdecks.php?format=Modern):

This application it's a way to determine the tier decks of a selected month. This system gives each archetype one point for each round of the tournament based on it's asistance (note by me: probably 'appearance') and one point for each round won in the top 8.


Is it just decks that made the top 8? If so it's hard to say that UWR is doing the best as field saturation can make even the worse decks have a high frequency of placement.
That pretty much irrelevant if you want to determine the decks you have to face in a tournament rather than the "best" deck. That's why I said "most popular and successful" and not "best".

A quick search for Modern decks with Delver of Secrets and (Goblin Guide or Steppe Lynx) will show you, that there are non listed under "WUR Midrange" in the relevant period of time. However, those decks from the glorious UWR Delver days are actually in the same category. I guess the admin of TheCouncil just renamed the category after Delver lost it's place and completely got replaced by the Midrange approach. As long as Delver doesn't make a comeback, it's no problem.

If you want win percentages you have to look out for Wizards tournament reports (PT, eventually GPs).

DragoFireheart
04-04-2013, 11:48 AM
WUR aggro is different from WUR mid-range.

The former has delver and lynx but hasn't been the popular choice lately. WUR-midrange has been the deck putting up most of the numbers. Geist, Snappy, Clique, lots of burn and counter spells seems to be the general shape of the deck.

(nameless one)
04-04-2013, 12:22 PM
What surprises me is that Jund is still the "second best" deck.

I know it's still a deck post-banning but to really keep up like that, I guess BBE is way over the top.

What saddens me is that U/R storm isn't even a factor in the meta.

Arsenal
04-04-2013, 01:36 PM
I'm not surprised at Jund. Jund's shell is still strong, and it's power level:manacurve is better than 90% of what other decks are trying to do at turn 1, turn 2, turn 3.

DragoFireheart
04-04-2013, 03:05 PM
Please tell us more about things everyone knows about. Your input to the discussion is as valuable as ever. :rolleyes:

How about this then:

Delver is very bad in Modern. You have little to no mana denial to capitalize on him, most decks run far too much removal for him to stick around, and you don't have Brainstorm to ensure that he's a 3/2 on turn 2.

You won't have to worry about him coming back to Modern anytime soon and screwing up TC deck database. I seriously don't know why decks thought using him in the past was a good idea. Cards that work in one format are terrible in another.

DragoFireheart
04-04-2013, 03:10 PM
What surprises me is that Jund is still the "second best" deck.

I know it's still a deck post-banning but to really keep up like that, I guess BBE is way over the top.


It has Tarmogoyf, Abrupt Decay, Deathrite Shaman, and Dark Confidant in it. It's not that surprising that it's still doing well as it's just a "good stuff" deck.

JDK
04-04-2013, 04:50 PM
How about this then:

Delver is very bad in Modern. You have little to no mana denial to capitalize on him, most decks run far too much removal for him to stick around, and you don't have Brainstorm to ensure that he's a 3/2 on turn 2.

You won't have to worry about him coming back to Modern anytime soon and screwing up TC deck database. I seriously don't know why decks thought using him in the past was a good idea. Cards that work in one format are terrible in another.

Delver is not per se bad in Modern, but way below the value he has in Legacy. The metagame is shifting and Delver.dec was a very strong contender back in early to mid 2012.

Anyway, your point is?

@(nameless one)
I could still cry at the Seething Song ban, but we have to move on. ^^

CardboardCrack
04-04-2013, 04:56 PM
How about this then:

Delver is very bad in Modern. You have little to no mana denial to capitalize on him, most decks run far too much removal for him to stick around, and you don't have Brainstorm to ensure that he's a 3/2 on turn 2.

You won't have to worry about him coming back to Modern anytime soon and screwing up TC deck database. I seriously don't know why decks thought using him in the past was a good idea. Cards that work in one format are terrible in another.

I mostly agree. Serum Visions is the only decent 1 mana blue spell to help make Delver of Secrets and even this is not ideal.

Great statistics. I was really surprised because this is not the metagame I see on MTGO.

feline
04-04-2013, 04:58 PM
Gosh I love stuff like this, thank you H3llsp4wn!

DragoFireheart
04-04-2013, 05:50 PM
Anyway, your point is?


My point is that WUR decks with delver/lynx are significantly different from WUR mid-range decks and not just a couple cards different. It might seem like an obvious point to make, but making the point that Devler is very bad in Modern is one worth making. Lynx in all honesty probably had a much larger role in making the deck good.

Also, Geist, but he goes without saying. Being immune to 90% of the formats removal is a nice plus.

JDK
04-04-2013, 07:28 PM
My point is that WUR decks with delver/lynx are significantly different from WUR mid-range decks and not just a couple cards different.
No one denies that. :eyebrow: I was just talking about the categories used on TC.

@feline
You're welcome.

(nameless one)
04-05-2013, 06:08 AM
Not crying about Seething Song.

I couldn't care less as a run Tron in Modern

DragoFireheart
04-05-2013, 09:07 AM
No one denies that. :eyebrow: I was just talking about the categories used on TC.

@feline
You're welcome.

And that data is flat out wrong. TC decks screwed up because (IIRC) it does include WUR delver decks in the UWR Mid range group.

Lemnear
04-05-2013, 09:46 AM
And that data is flat out wrong. TC decks screwed up because (IIRC) it does include WUR delver decks in the UWR Mid range group.

Don't blame them. Not even WotC gives a fuck about categorisation or Deck names (See TES/ANT)

DragoFireheart
04-05-2013, 10:05 AM
Don't blame them. Not even WotC gives a fuck about categorisation or Deck names (See TES/ANT)

Well someone should care. Otherwise, it makes it harder to discuss deck archtypes effectively and accurately record which decks are performing well. It's like someone going to the Esperblade deck and claiming their burn deck is also esperblade because they shoved a SFM and a swamp into it (extreme example).

JDK
04-05-2013, 12:09 PM
And that data is flat out wrong. TC decks screwed up because (IIRC) it does include WUR delver decks in the UWR Mid range group.

I know, reading is very hard, but I kindly advise you to try reading my previous post:

A quick search for Modern decks with Delver of Secrets and (Goblin Guide or Steppe Lynx) will show you, that there are non listed under "WUR Midrange" in the relevant period of time. However, those decks from the glorious UWR Delver days are actually in the same category. I guess the admin of TheCouncil just renamed the category after Delver lost it's place and completely got replaced by the Midrange approach. As long as Delver doesn't make a comeback, it's no problem.
So no, the data is not flat out wrong.

Koby
04-05-2013, 12:21 PM
Well someone should care. Otherwise, it makes it harder to discuss deck archtypes effectively and accurately record which decks are performing well. It's like someone going to the Esperblade deck and claiming their burn deck is also esperblade because they shoved a SFM and a swamp into it (extreme example).

I have got an idea.

Since you're so up in arms about how awful the data is being recorded, how about you take the time to sort through all the decks posted. This will let you determine whether this flavor of WUR is Geist or is Goblin Guide/Steppe Lynx. Then, you can format the data in a digestible manner and present it to the community and show your worth.

Until then, please for fuck's sake SHUT UP.

DragoFireheart
04-05-2013, 01:52 PM
@H3llsp4wn: So what you are saying is there are no WUR mid-range decks that had Delver of Secrets in February or March?

DragoFireheart
04-05-2013, 02:01 PM
I have got an idea.

Since you're so up in arms about how awful the data is being recorded, how about you take the time to sort through all the decks posted. This will let you determine whether this flavor of WUR is Geist or is Goblin Guide/Steppe Lynx. Then, you can format the data in a digestible manner and present it to the community and show your worth.

Until then, please for fuck's sake SHUT UP.

Considering that this site uses TC decks to determine which decks we should be preparing for in the meta along with the fact that we have a Modern forum for discussing the Modern meta, data should be scrutinized if there are errors in it. Especially if the Modern forum here wants to be taken seriously and not just considered an afterthought. If the people who made the data or who are presenting the data can't handle that scrutiny, then they shouldn't present the data.

Saying "but if you don't like my flawed data, DO IT YOURSELF!!!!1111" is not only childish but extremely counter-productive discussion. If I presented data with flaws, I would hope to expect the same scrutiny from you all.

Koby
04-05-2013, 02:06 PM
TCdecks data is internally consistent. You're asking for a detail level that is not provided on the first level of review. If you're interested in that data, you're welcome to perform the analysis yourself and share with the community. Don't criticize the data presented when it's not to your level of scrutiny if you are not willing to provide further analysis on someone else's presentation.

The data is not flawed in the slightest. It represents the archetypical decks that performed. WUR is a broad range of decks with no coherent dominant strategy spanning over the period of data. You're asking for which WUR decks have X but not Y. This takes a lot of research to gather.

Put up, or shut up.

DragoFireheart
04-05-2013, 02:08 PM
TCdecks data is internally consistent. You're asking for a detail level that is not provided on the first level of review. If you're interested in that data, you're welcome to perform the analysis yourself and share with the community. Don't criticize the data presented when it's not to your level of scrutiny if you are not willing to provide further analysis on someone else's presentation.

Put up, or shut up.

See my previous post.

And no, TC decks is not internally consistent. It's much better with Legacy data but Modern still has errors (like the one I pointed out).

JDK
04-05-2013, 02:42 PM
@H3llsp4wn: So what you are saying is there are no WUR mid-range decks that had Delver of Secrets in February or March?

Third time's the charm, huh? (http://www.starfall.com/)


A quick search for Modern decks with Delver of Secrets and (Goblin Guide or Steppe Lynx) will show you, that there are non listed under "WUR Midrange" in the relevant period of time.

Search for: Modern, 01/02/2013 to 31/3/2013, Cards in Maindeck: Delver of Secrets & Steppe Lynx (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/busqueda.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=0&nhigh=0&dlow=1&mlow=2&ylow=2013&dhigh=31&mhigh=3&yhigh=2013&player=&dname=&format=Modern&aname=&main=Delver+of+Secrets%3B+Steppe+Lynx&nomain=&side=&noside=&strict=on) - Results: 0 (zero)
Search for: Modern, 01/02/2013 to 31/3/2013, Cards in Maindeck: Delver of Secrets & Goblin Guide (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/busqueda.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=0&nhigh=0&dlow=1&mlow=2&ylow=2013&dhigh=31&mhigh=3&yhigh=2013&player=&dname=&format=Modern&aname=&main=Delver+of+Secrets%3B+Goblin+Guide&nomain=&side=&noside=&strict=on) - Results: 0 (zero)

So what's left?
Search for: Modern, 01/02/2013 to 31/3/2013, Archetype: WUR Midrange, Cards in Maindeck: Delver of Secrets (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/busqueda.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=0&nhigh=0&dlow=1&mlow=2&ylow=2013&dhigh=31&mhigh=3&yhigh=2013&player=&dname=&format=Modern&aname=WUR+Midrange&main=Delver+of+Secrets&nomain=&side=&noside=&strict=on) - Results: 12 (twelve)
These builds however aren't as aggro as the old ones and there's nothing wrong with categorizing them under "Midrange". Some of them even feature cards like Lightning Angel, Restoration Angel, Celestial Colonnade and so on. WUR Midrange has 136 placings in the given time-frame and less than 12 of them are in the "wrong" category, so this isn't even nearly as relevant as you apparently want it to be.

Either you are trolling and should be banned immediately, or you are really that simple-minded. Anyway, you should refrain from posting.

DragoFireheart
04-05-2013, 03:01 PM
You can relax, I was only asking you to clarify your point.


These builds however aren't as aggro as the old ones and there's nothing wrong with categorizing them under "Midrange".

Talk about lack of reading comprehension. Pot calling kettle black much? Did you not comprehend my spiel about Delver? And a 11% margin of error is not a "small error". Maybe if 1 or 2 decks? Sure. But 10% are not in the correct group?

Frankly, I don't know why you are taking this so personally. My gripe isn't with you but with TC decks being sloppy with Modern data. Maybe you should read more closely into what my posts are saying.

JDK
04-05-2013, 09:33 PM
I've read your posts (although 'spiel' suits them well, indeed) and already shown you why your claims are plainly wrong or out of context. You called the data "flat out wrong", which it isn't, as I've already pointed out. If your gripe is with TC you should contact them instead of whining about a non-existing accuracy-issue in this thread, as the data isn't affected. Maybe you have mistaken this thread for a place to discuss TC's doings, but it isn't. It is about Modern's meta-game and its progression and development. Oh and get your percentages right. ;)

Now back to the good part.

DragoFireheart
04-05-2013, 10:23 PM
This Metagame needs more Zur the Enchanter and Steel of the Godhead.

Seriously, a godhead on a Geist of Saint Traft will end games and Zur makes getting a godhead on a Geist easier. Also, godhead on a Zur isn't too shabby either.

http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=41893

They had a decent stock a few days ago. I think there is some untapped potential for a Zur deck. Expect some Zur decks to start popping up.

JDK
06-03-2013, 07:14 PM
April/May 2013
http://i.imgur.com/v1g2azF.jpg (http://imgur.com/v1g2azF)

http://i.imgur.com/Qng3HeR.jpg (http://imgur.com/Qng3HeR)

Major Tournaments:
Grand Prix Portland 2013 - 12/05/2013 (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10852) - Winner: Project Melira (Melira Pod)
SCG Invitational Qualifier - MLL#11, Milan, Italy - 19/05/2013 (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10916) - Winner: Affinity

PTQ-Season is over and you can see a significant decrease in tournaments. There's been only two Modern tournaments with more than 100 players listed on TheCouncil and with people grabbing up winning decks you can expect Project Melira to rise in numbers. The sister of newly crowned King Kiki-Pod has made a comeback and WUR Midrange is on the decline again. Splinter Twin has lost some numbers and so did Infect. The banning of Second Sunrise has extinguished Eggs for now, but it's interesting to point out that Storm has made a comeback with Jon Finkel placing 16th at GP Portland and Ronco Matteo taking 3rd place at the SCG Invitational Qualifier in Italy, playing the same list as Finkel (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10852&iddeck=79233).
Another unexpected turn of events is the success of Merfolk, with a 4th place finish at the same SCG Qualifier.


Source: TheCouncil's monthly rankings (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tierdecks.php?format=Modern)

nedleeds
06-06-2013, 02:02 PM
thanks for putting this together ... pod pod pod. It's an interesting deck because even if you hate out the pod (Mindcensor, Teeg, Cage, Orb) it's still a not god awful medium creature deck that might stumble into a combo or a Fink beatdown win anyway. I think people need to be playing more cage, then they have to actually draw out a QPM or HS.

JDK
06-06-2013, 09:02 PM
Well I guess there's been a decline in GY-hate after the bannings of Seething Song and Second Sunrise, which is why Pod is running rampant (not only - it's still an insanely good and resilient deck) and Storm still has the potential to make its way to the top tables. Beating Pod isn't that hard, but they can function as a midrange deck, especially the Kiki-Jiki builds with Domri Rade. Good choices against Pod are Scapeshift, cards like Grafdiggers Cage, Torpor Orb (shuts down Splinter Twin too) and sweepers like Pyroclasm, as those decks are in need of mana dorks.

JDK
08-12-2013, 06:10 PM
June / July 2013
http://i.imgur.com/PepifYz.png

http://i.imgur.com/HY13Ae5.png

Major Tournaments:
Ciudad de Villena Modern - 28/07/2013 (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=11408) - Winner: Twin Exarch
Grand Prix Kansas City 2013 - 07/07/2013 (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=11261) - Winner: Project Melira
MAD Modern Tournament - 08/06/2013 (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=11060) - Winner: UW Control
Tournament Modern Rome 2013 - 02/06/2013 (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=11051) - Winner: Esper Control

Twin Exarch has made a huge comeback with interesting techs such as Robert Berni's inclusion (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=11261&iddeck=82237) of Boomerang into the maindeck and the addition of white (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=11261&iddeck=82243) by Caleb Durward and others. Also worthy of the name "Deck to beat" is the archetype UW Control, which mostly features UWr Control decks similar to Wafo-Tapa's draw-go list and was heavily featured at the Magic World Championship. Combo decks in general are probably at an all-time high, with Scapeshift, Kiki- and Melira-Pod along-side Twin in the Top6. Jund is still losing ground while Affinity proves to be a real veteran in Modern.
Jund's demise could be the effect of the uprise of GW Aggro, which is a compilation of efficient beaters and hatebears to prey on decks unprepared to handle creatures like Aven Mindcensor, Voice of Resurgence, Loxodon Smiter and Linvala, Keeper of Silence.

Worth mentioning: Wizards re-arranged the PTQ-schedule. The next Modern PTQ-season starts in June 2014.


Source: TheCouncil's monthly rankings (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tierdecks.php?format=Modern)

YamiJoey
08-14-2013, 07:23 AM
Nice to see that UW Control and UW Midrange have been split up. I see plenty of places where they are not. Excellent stuff, and it's good to get some perspective. It's nice to know my deck would do well against a field that isn't my FNM. (Tezzerator, MUD, and then Martyr Aggro. Really?)

Are the UW Control decks incorperating UWR? If so, why the discrepancy between UW and UWR midrange?

JDK
08-14-2013, 11:22 AM
Are the UW Control decks incorperating UWR? If so, why the discrepancy between UW and UWR midrange?

UW Control, which mostly features UWr Control decks similar to Wafo-Tapa's draw-go list
So, yes. ;)

I don't know why they are splitting the midrange lists, but not the control lists.

What do you mean by MUD? Affinity?

Polish Tamales
09-07-2013, 07:21 PM
Awesome thread! Thanks H3llsp4wn.

DragoFireheart
09-19-2013, 11:00 AM
Current modern meta-game:

Jund.
Jundless Jund (GB mid-range).
Random combo decks.

Davran
09-19-2013, 12:53 PM
Current modern meta-game:

Jund.
Jundless Jund (GB mid-range).
Random combo decks.

We now return you to feature match coverage with Jund vs. Melira Pod. Yep, this should be interesting.

nodahero
09-19-2013, 03:28 PM
I wouldn't mind that matchup... I am a sadistic jerk though.

Combo for life...

JDK
10-08-2013, 06:57 AM
August / September 2013
http://i.imgur.com/vMvURxA.png

Major Tournaments:
Modern MOCS - 18/08/2013 (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11630) - Winner: Project Melira
SCG Invitational Qualifier - Milan, Italy - 08/09/2013 (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11719) - Winner: Jund
Grand Prix Detroit - 15/09/2013 (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11756) - Winner: Project Melira
Modern@Ovino8 - 27/09/2013 (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11866) - Winner: GW Aggro

Even though Melira Pod (Project Melira) isn't showing up in dominating numbers, it has managed to win its third Modern GP in a row in Detroit.
The big news, however, is the impressive return of Jund in addition to the consecutive #1 spot of its brother GB Rock. Both decks were able to take up nearly 40% of the Top8 in the major tournaments. Both Pod decks combined didn't even manage to come close with about 17%. Most of the GBx.decs incorporated Scavenging Ooze into their core, but Rock also featured heavy land destruction in form of mainboard Tectonic Edges and sideboard Fulminator Mages (in rare cases even in the maindeck). Reid Duke introduced (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11756&iddeck=86066) Chandra, Pyromaster as Jund's newest tool for attrition matches and as a way to gain card-advantage. In the GP most Pro-Players piloted GBx, so you could still argue about deck versus skill, but since the archetype has performed so well over all major tournaments in the last two months there's no question about Modern's old and new king: GBx.
The problem with this deck is, that it's an extremely efficient pile of the best cards in the respective colors, which makes it difficult to prey on (read: resilient) and consistent. It has maindeck answers for almost anything, mostly thanks to discard, Deathrite Shaman, Abrupt Decay, Liliana of the Veil and Maelstrom Pulse. Scavenging Ooze gave the deck another push towards uncontested #1.

Twin Exarch couldn't repeat its run and dropped significantly, while Affinity continues to probably be Modern's most consistent Top4 metagame deck.



Source: TheCouncil's monthly rankings (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tierdecks.php?format=Modern)

DragoFireheart
10-10-2013, 03:15 PM
Rock decks are a way to tell people "no, your Bloodmoons/land destruction doesn't matter to me. Have fun with my land destruction!"

Some (scarce few) Affinity decks do run Bloodmoon but I don't see it that often outsight of Twin/RDW. You'd think Bloodmoon would be a great choice for Modern but that simply isn't the case:

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/busqueda.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=0&nhigh=0&dlow=0&mlow=0&ylow=0&dhigh=0&mhigh=0&yhigh=0&player=&dname=&format=Modern&aname=&main=Blood+moon&nomain=&side=&noside=&strict=on

Those are all the decks with Blood Moon.

Phoenix Ignition
10-10-2013, 04:19 PM
Blood Moon needs to run flawlessly in your deck or you're not really doing yourself many favors. In Jund you could play basics and Deathrites and try to drop it vs. Tron, but if you let them get to turn 6 you're just as dead as if you didn't have the Bloodmoon. And generally if you're playing BM in Jund you're slowing yourself down significantly by not giving yourself the resources you need to drop all your cards or pump all your creatures.

I've watched a lot of people lose from keeping Blood Moon hands that are just okay. Blood Moon just turns off colorless Tron lands and Eye of Ugin, which definitely hurts some, but if they had a decent hand anyway they can still Pyroclasm or just drop a turn 6 Wurmcoil and you're boned.

Lord Seth
10-10-2013, 05:22 PM
Blood Moon is overrated as a Tron hoser. It does hurt them, but not as much as you might think.

DragoFireheart
10-10-2013, 06:26 PM
That's pretty much what I suspected.

Makes me sad since non-basic lands see a lot of use.

Mr. Safety
10-16-2013, 07:05 PM
Blood Moon is overrated as a Tron hoser. It does hurt them, but not as much as you might think.

I agree. G/R Tron laughs at it for the most part and just plays Wurmcoil/Karn fairly. They STILL have access to Pyroclasm and cantrip filters.

What Blood Moon does is hose strategies that are already fringe/tier 2 (or lower) like 4-Color Gifts and home-brewed non-red 3+ colored decks.

ahg113
10-16-2013, 11:33 PM
As far as cockatrice goes (not that far), G/R tron doesn't laugh Blood Moon off, but it is much better at adapting than any other deck I've played against. To paint a full picture, Blood Moon is the star, often used, sideboard card in a U/R Counter Burn Pyromancer deck. Basically, Bloodmoon allows the U/R deck to slow the game down so far with counter spells that yeah, playing Karn/Wurmcoil fairly just runs into a Manaleak unless waiting till turn 9/10, in which case, you should be dead...

$.02, hope inflation debt-ceiling jazz doesn't make that worth even less

Phoenix Ignition
10-17-2013, 01:18 PM
Yeah, but you're still talking about a deck that Blood Moon runs seamlessly in, and since that's a requirement, it really doesn't make Blood Moon the Tron hoser that we need.

It isn't just "A good card against Tron," it's "A good card against Tron if you run 6+ basics already and only 2 colors." Affinity decks like to run it for some reason, but in my anecdotal experience they've always lost for not having use of their manlands anymore (I was playing Jund, and Deathrite Shaman or a single fetched basic was enough to kill them with, or I was playing Tron and just Clasmed their board, leaving them with Mountain manlands).

Mr. Safety
10-19-2013, 06:42 PM
I was playing UWR Mid-Range/Control today online (MWS) and I fought through a Blood Moon g2 just fine. I was playing against UR Splinter Twin and I just burned the snot out of him with a resolved Engineered Explosives at zero as backup if I couldn't Path his Pestermite (he did have the Dispel, but I gained a turn and top decked a Helix with a basic plains on the field.)

Blood Moon isn't as brutal as folks think, mostly because red is just so gosh-darn prevalent in modern. In Legacy Blood Moon is not that popular but it still has it's moments (like with Imperial Painter and Dragon Stompy.) In Modern it seems good, but it isn't as good. The stronger red is as a color in Modern the weaker Blood Moon gets. Most of the top decks can fight through moon one way or another. Looking at the top decks in Modern currently:

Melira Pod/Kiki-Pod
Splinter Twin
Jund
UWR Control/Mid-Range
G/R Tron
Affinity
Junk
G/R Aggro
Merfolk

How many of those decks are actually incapacitated by Blood Moon? Just Junk really, and if they are good players they will float mana before Moon resolves and just blow it up with Abrupt Decay.

All in all, I see Blood Moon as a useful piece of tech in Modern but by no means is it as powerful in this format as Legacy. What boggles my mind is that so few players are using Goblin Ruinblaster.

There is my $.02 to add to the conversation.

firebadmattgood
10-21-2013, 03:50 PM
Explosives at zero don't help against twin decks, which is why it resolved. Token copies copy everything, including casting cost.

Mr. Safety
10-21-2013, 06:24 PM
DOH! Thank you for that. Explosives at 3 is still good though... ;)

Arsenal
11-10-2013, 07:39 AM
Thoughts as to why UWr midrange and UWr control has gone down in popularity/power? The terrible Tron matchup? Idk why as the meta hasn't shifted that dramatically since it's reign.

Phoenix Ignition
11-10-2013, 02:18 PM
I think it's more the fact that GBx strategies produce more card advantage with better creatures. You lose out a bit on removal, as you don't get the 4x Path, 4x Lightning bolt, up to 4x Helix, but GB gets Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse, and if they splash red, LB. They get bigger creatures, and they get Deathrite + Scavenging Ooze to stop any graveyard shenanigans and turns off Snapcaster. Lastly, hand hate replaces stuff like Remand, which lets you play a little more aggressively.

Arsenal
11-10-2013, 03:26 PM
Post-BBE ban, Jund and other GBx decks were still present, but UWR was up there too. Now, UWr is way down.

Phoenix Ignition
11-10-2013, 05:08 PM
Scavenging Ooze wasn't around right when the BBE ban hit so I think GBx decks fell out of style. When he got printed I think it took a bit for them to get some good results so that everyone could copy them. He's so good against so many decks, and having a critical density of graveyard hate (including the DRS) may have pushed it over the top.

Arsenal
11-20-2013, 12:22 PM
I'm able to deal with Jund pretty well, but it's the Junk decks that blow UWR out of the water; Loxodon Smiter, Lingering Souls and Voice of Resurgence are cards that UWR can only answer using inefficient methods. After playtesting, these 3 cards that Junk regularly runs maindeck + the usual GBx stuff (Liliana, Ooze, DRS) just really screws UWR over.

Mr. Safety
11-23-2013, 06:52 PM
Wait, isn't Electrolyze one of the best cards against Lingering Souls? If Voice of Resurgence is giving you trouble than you need to start with 4x Path to Exile and then some number of Pillar of Flame. As far as Loxodon Smiter goes, maybe Combust needs a little space in your sideboard. It has great value in a Twin/GW Hatebears heavy environment as well.

One thing I've been doing lately is subbing in Firespout for Pyroclasm, just as a test. Sometimes Firespout is neccessary even though it costs an extra mana. Anger of the Gods is also an option, but I sometimes wonder in a blue-heavy deck like this (for Cryptic) might be asking for trouble to go for double red in a spell's cost. Most versions I've seen, and the one I use, is mostly UWr with red being the splash color and being dominated by blue, not by a small margin.

Entromancer
11-24-2013, 03:46 PM
I was browsing the RDW lists at The Council. A list from last year was running Blood Knight and Stormblood Berserker at the top of its curve. In a vacuum with the other 2-drops available to red, what are your thoughts on these? The Knight seems especially useful, and with Lavamancers and Guides, I doubt it's hard to hit Bloodthirst for the Berserker. Is Kargan Dragonlord considered bad in Modern?

Mr. Safety
11-25-2013, 06:04 PM
I actually like Dragonlord the best out of those three options. Blood Knight is a decent sideboard card, for sure.

I think the better RDW setups are going with 4x Skullcrack and 4x Flames of the Blood Hand in the maindeck. THey are efficient sources of damage that also deal with minor problems such as Kitchen Finks, Scavenging Ooze, Lightning Helix, and Sphinx's Revelation. The less interaction the better, I think.

Windmill
11-28-2013, 08:12 PM
How is Merfolk positioned right now? Just getting into Modern. Can it top 8? I don't mean win but you know, a top 8 is respectable ;)

Mr. Safety
11-29-2013, 08:38 PM
I would say Merfolk is the best tribal aggro in the format. It can be really fast and has a few good tools to interact with combo decks (Cursecatcher, Spreading Seas.) Not many people agree with me but I think it's a tier 1 deck. A guy at our local store always does well with Merfolk. Check the thread for the current best version, but I think the best one as of late is mono-blue because it can ignore Blood Moon easily enough (or blue-red and play Blood Moon yourself, lol)

Lord Seth
11-30-2013, 12:54 AM
I would say Merfolk is the best tribal aggro in the format. It can be really fast and has a few good tools to interact with combo decks (Cursecatcher, Spreading Seas.) Not many people agree with me but I think it's a tier 1 deck. A guy at our local store always does well with Merfolk. Check the thread for the current best version, but I think the best one as of late is mono-blue because it can ignore Blood Moon easily enough (or blue-red and play Blood Moon yourself, lol)
Not many people agree with you because you're wrong. Merfolk is not a Tier 1 deck. That's a pretty objective fact.

That doesn't mean it's a bad deck, or it couldn't conceivably get a big finish, but the designation Tier 1 is for decks that get reasonably consistently strong results, which Merfolk most certainly does not.

Imperial
11-30-2013, 11:56 PM
I would say Merfolk is the best tribal aggro in the format. It can be really fast and has a few good tools to interact with combo decks (Cursecatcher, Spreading Seas.) Not many people agree with me but I think it's a tier 1 deck. A guy at our local store always does well with Merfolk. Check the thread for the current best version, but I think the best one as of late is mono-blue because it can ignore Blood Moon easily enough (or blue-red and play Blood Moon yourself, lol)

Tier 1 decks almost always make Day 2s and Top 8s, which Merfolk doesn't do a whole lot of.

JDK
12-01-2013, 07:09 PM
I would say Merfolk is the best tribal aggro in the format. It can be really fast and has a few good tools to interact with combo decks (Cursecatcher, Spreading Seas.) Not many people agree with me but I think it's a tier 1 deck. A guy at our local store always does well with Merfolk. Check the thread for the current best version, but I think the best one as of late is mono-blue because it can ignore Blood Moon easily enough (or blue-red and play Blood Moon yourself, lol)

Cursecatcher and Spreading Sea are the two worst examples of "interaction with combo". The Mono-U version is actually the worst in my experience, as it doesn't have access to e.g. Thoughtseize or Combust.

Boarding Blood Moon against a 1-2 color deck with Vials? Yeah, right...

JPoJohnson
12-02-2013, 09:52 AM
Thoughts as to why UWr midrange and UWr control has gone down in popularity/power? The terrible Tron matchup? Idk why as the meta hasn't shifted that dramatically since it's reign.

Easy. Snapcaster Mage is a lot of the power in the UWr decks and with Deathrite Shaman + Scavenging Ooze hitting your graveyard cards so that he has no power as well as Rest in Peace being splash hate against you trying to kill those cards for the opponents, you lost one of the more powerful cards in your deck. It just makes you a bit slower and a bit less consistent and you see a drop off because of it.

Mr. Safety
12-02-2013, 09:58 PM
Not many people agree with you because you're wrong. Merfolk is not a Tier 1 deck. That's a pretty objective fact.

That doesn't mean it's a bad deck, or it couldn't conceivably get a big finish, but the designation Tier 1 is for decks that get reasonably consistently strong results, which Merfolk most certainly does not.

Thank you.

EDIT: Wasn't there a DTB thread for Modern decks on here? I can't seem to find it...

Mr. Safety
12-02-2013, 10:00 PM
Cursecatcher and Spreading Sea are the two worst examples of "interaction with combo". The Mono-U version is actually the worst in my experience, as it doesn't have access to e.g. Thoughtseize or Combust.

Boarding Blood Moon against a 1-2 color deck with Vials? Yeah, right...

I meant Blood Moon is good in the MERFOLK sideboard. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I wouldn't expect folks to be boarding in Blood Moon against Merfolk, that seems silly...

JPoJohnson
12-03-2013, 09:48 AM
Thank you.

EDIT: Wasn't there a DTB thread for Modern decks on here? I can't seem to find it...

Deck development is the only thing I've ever seen for modern on here.

JDK
12-03-2013, 11:48 AM
I meant Blood Moon is good in the MERFOLK sideboard. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I wouldn't expect folks to be boarding in Blood Moon against Merfolk, that seems silly...


but I think the best one as of late is mono-blue because it can ignore Blood Moon easily enough
Really?

Mr. Safety
12-03-2013, 10:04 PM
Really, as in I was a bit off the mark. Thinking before posting would have been better, eh?

Timber
12-04-2013, 10:18 AM
Easy. Snapcaster Mage is a lot of the power in the UWr decks and with Deathrite Shaman + Scavenging Ooze hitting your graveyard cards so that he has no power as well as Rest in Peace being splash hate against you trying to kill those cards for the opponents, you lost one of the more powerful cards in your deck. It just makes you a bit slower and a bit less consistent and you see a drop off because of it.

I agree. The card advantage that Snapcaster provides is negated by all the graveyard hate. Additionally, black enables the hand destruction that adds an extra level of control.

Has anyone tried Esper in Modern? Liliana, Thoughtseize and Bob with Geist, O-ring/Dsphere and counters sounds really powerful.

JDK
12-07-2013, 08:35 AM
October / November 2013
http://i.imgur.com/0pKc594.png

Major Tournaments:
Grand Prix Brisbane 2013 - 06/10/2013 (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11854) - Winner: Affinity
Grand Prix Antwerp 2013 - 27/10/2013 (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12061) - Winner: Twin Exarch
BoM 2013 Paris - Modern Main Event - 03/11/2013 (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12167) - Winner: Burn

While Jund took back the crown of the metagame, Rock.dec lost ground to the GP winners Affinity and Twin Exarch. The latter caught up some momentum with Patrick Dickmann's Tempo oriented build (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12061&iddeck=88378) he has crafted close to perfection since he introduced his findings in the last Modern PTQ season back in late 2012 (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=9840&iddeck=71813).
Birthing Pod decks are still strong contenders and with Living End another combo/midrange deck rose in popularity, while UWR Control dropped down significantly - possibly a resignation to GBx.dec and Tron?

Also noteworthy are the results of Elves and PiF combo (Storm). The first one might become a Tier 2 deck thanks to [card]Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx[/cards] and the second still seems to be a pet deck and decent choice for several players out there (myself included).


Source: TheCouncil's monthly rankings (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tierdecks.php?format=Modern)

Mr. Safety
12-07-2013, 02:09 PM
Awesome, thank you.

Timber
12-11-2013, 11:03 AM
Last weekend's SCG IQ results.

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=29&start_date=2013-12-08&end_date=2013-12-08&state=TN&city=Columbia&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks

1. Jund
2. Affinity
3. UWR Twin
4. RUG Scapeshift
5. Mono Black Devotion
6. R/G Tron
7. Merfolk
8. Merfolk

I like that black devotion deck.

gregtron
12-11-2013, 12:45 PM
I agree. The card advantage that Snapcaster provides is negated by all the graveyard hate. Additionally, black enables the hand destruction that adds an extra level of control.

Has anyone tried Esper in Modern? Liliana, Thoughtseize and Bob with Geist, O-ring/Dsphere and counters sounds really powerful.

Tried brewing and testing a handful of different iterations before GPs KC and Detroit. We went through different removal suites, Duress-effect setups, more control with Sphinx's Revelation, more fish-style with Bobs and Delvers, DRSs, Tombstalkers, Planeswalkers, etc, and it just never felt Good Enough. Every version eventually morphed into a better version of the deck in BUG, RUG, or UWR.

One of our testing group ported Shouta's Eternal Command to BUG to run DRS and upgrade the removal, missing two consecutive win-and-ins for day 2. It plays in a pretty similar style as some of our Esper lists, but with Decay instead of O-ring, and Goyf/Scavenging Ooze/V-Clique instead of Geist. Might be another area to brainstorm.

wcm8
12-11-2013, 08:12 PM
Why is that Modern Black deck running Watery Grave and Blood Crypt? Was it a typo? Aren't those simply better off just being basic Swamps, or at least Woodland Cemetery?

Imperial
12-15-2013, 12:52 AM
Why is that Modern Black deck running Watery Grave and Blood Crypt? Was it a typo? Aren't those simply better off just being basic Swamps, or at least Woodland Cemetery?

You can always trick your opponent into thinking that you're playing something else.

JDK
12-15-2013, 09:07 AM
You can always trick your opponent into thinking that you're playing something else.

Yeah, have fun playing those mindtricks against Burn or another aggressive strategy.

Imperial
12-15-2013, 01:36 PM
Yeah, have fun playing those mindtricks against Burn or another aggressive strategy.

Well, unless I'm missing something, it seems to be the only reason to play them over more basics/other lands.

Lord Seth
12-18-2013, 08:33 PM
Maybe they originally had cards they could cast with those in the sideboard, but ended up changing the sideboard to not include them and forgot to remove the dual lands?

sublime love
12-18-2013, 10:56 PM
every one know modern is known for its "waving of the ban hammer".
Due to modern being such a fresh format, wotc is trying to find the balance in the colors/cards. Every deck they want to be able to gold fish, earliest of turn 4. Very respectable, considering legacy can GF turn 1, and standard is all about not missing land drops, and winning on turn 16+/opponent scoops.

Mtg is known for its net decking. And a lot of players are just getting into modern. So they go with what they see doing well, the most. people go with the deck that is the most well rounded, and can win a event with 6+ rounds. For big events you want a deck that can go x-1. Hopefully only losing when you punt or the deck hates you (flood/mana screw)

That's why 3 color decks are big. Rwu gets the super perk of having all its fetches in color (rw/ru). Wile decks like Jund and pod, run DRS and any fetch that is in 1/2 colors, so they don't run into mana problems.

Until WOTC remakes the old fetch lands, I see rwu being the most popular deck, for a wile. Yes, they will make the old fetches again. They want modern to be the new eternal format. they clearly won't (probably) make them until the shock lands rotate out of STD. Due to the pure power of them together.

Making the fetches again, will "fix" many of the problems a lot of decks are having. Things like naya Zew, can't function properly. They need to run off color fetches, in order to get the shock lands in play. But they still massively hurt your line choices. Not every game, but enough for it matter. If wg/wr fetch was legal in modern, Zew would be able to play a constant game of cards.

Decks like pod, don't have that problem (in the way naya does). They are already on 4 colors with DRS, birds/noble. They have soo much mana fixing, and colors that they don't get hurt by the lack of available fetches. it is seen in the number of pod decks in the top seats. (yes I know its a pilot deck, all decks are. Regardless if you think so)

None of the cards in ruw are broken, or have the stand alone power to make the hammer swing. Its all about the lands.

PS. Bw tokens has a sweet match up vrs rwu and Jund. its weak to decks like scapeshift and Tron (combo). But who cares when you are on black. Just sb discard and land destruction

(sorry if my spelling/grammar sucks, I am dyslexic)

JDK
12-19-2013, 04:58 AM
Until WOTC remakes the old fetch lands, I see rwu being the most popular deck, for a wile.
But UWr is NOT the most popular deck. :wink:

Tron is not a combo deck, it's control.

Arsenal
12-20-2013, 12:50 PM
I'm fairly happy with the meta. Nothing dominates mercilessly, there's a healthy balance of archetypes represented and all colors (primary and splash) are played.

Mr. Safety
12-22-2013, 09:17 AM
I think the metagame is fairly well balanced, all three pillars are represented. It's a little sad to see some of the decks as a shadow of their former selves (Affinity without the lands, Jund without Bloodbraid) but that's the nature of the format with the ban policy WotC has established.

In my local area UWR is not even close to the most popular deck. The most popular is GB(x) good stuff type of strategies.

ktkenshinx
12-22-2013, 01:06 PM
I'm a moderator over at the MTG Salvation modern forums and thought I'd share some of the metagame data that I collect from the publicly available MTGO Daily results. I was once skeptical that such Daily results were representative of the actual MTGO-wide Modern metagame. After all, Wizards only publishes results from one event per day, and many days see at least 4-6. Moreover, the only decks that get published are 4-0/3-1 decks, not the 2-2/1-3/0-4 decks. So I was worried that the sample was too skewed to be useful.

But I did an analysis comparing the actual prevalence of decks to the prevalence of decks in the reported sample. This was done by looking at all the Daily results over the course of a few months (running a program to go through daily results in the MTGO client and record match results). It was time intensive but worth it because it lets you estimate true prevalence just by using the reported numbers.

The end result? In the MTGO Modern scene, the "true" prevalence of a deck is +/- 2% from what is reported on the website.

So if we were to look at reported Daily events over three months and found that Twin made up 10% of the reported results, the "true" prevalence of Twin would actually be between 8-12%. This doesn't really apply to super rogue decks that never get better than 2-2, but it applies to at least 50 of the big deck sin Modern. So with that in mind, here are the top 10 MTGO decks from September 16 - Present (excluding the month where MTGO was broken and there were no Dailies to report).

RBG/RBGw Jund: 15.5%
Affinity: 10%
RG Tron: 8%
Twin: 8%
Melira Pod: 6.5%
UWR Control: 5.5%
Scapeshift: 4%
Burn: 4%
Merfolk: 4%
GW Hatebears: 3.5%

Some of those decks have moved a lot since dailies went back up in early December. Before 12/12, Jund made up 16% of the metagame with RG Tron at 8.5% and Twin at 7%. After 12/12, Jund is down to about 12%, RG Tron is down to 6.5%, and Twin has made a huge surge up to 12.5%. Other decks had similar movement (BG Rock up from 2% to 6.5% being the most notable).

It's a pretty health metagme at first glance, but there's a pretty noticeable lack of control (it's just UWR really). Midrange, Aggro, and Combo are doing pretty well, although there remains no truly successful Tempo deck in Modern.

serenechaos
12-23-2013, 12:32 AM
Your analyses are always awesome, but this one in particular raises an interesting question in my mind.

According to the first numbers, Cheeri0s should have favorable matchups against ~26% of the meta, and "fair" matchups against another ~18%. However, of the hideously unfavorable matchups, Jund and Burn, Jund is the single most represented deck in the meta. So, my question is this: Is it better to have good matchups against a larger statistical chunk of the metagame, or to have a good matchup against the largest stand-alone chunk of the metagame? Obviously you would want to do both, if possible, but in my situation, does having mostly favorables outweigh having an unfavorable against the biggest deck?

ktkenshinx
12-23-2013, 09:12 AM
Your analyses are always awesome, but this one in particular raises an interesting question in my mind.

According to the first numbers, Cheeri0s should have favorable matchups against ~26% of the meta, and "fair" matchups against another ~18%. However, of the hideously unfavorable matchups, Jund and Burn, Jund is the single most represented deck in the meta. So, my question is this: Is it better to have good matchups against a larger statistical chunk of the metagame, or to have a good matchup against the largest stand-alone chunk of the metagame? Obviously you would want to do both, if possible, but in my situation, does having mostly favorables outweigh having an unfavorable against the biggest deck?
At least in Modern, I think it's better to have good matchups against the largest stand-alone chunk of the metagame. If there's one thing we've seen with Modern over the past months it's that players don't innovate a lot for big events. They just pick the "best" deck available and run it, especially if that "best" deck is full of the "best" cards. The BGx shell is uniquely polarizing in that sense. Players see a Modern deck where you can run Decay/Goyf/DRS/Lilly/TS/Bob, all of which are Legacy staples, and immediately gravitate towards it. Having a bad matchup against BGx in Modern isn't quite as bad as having a bad matchup against Caw Blade in 2011 Standard, or Affinity in 2005 Extended, but it's close; this deck is just everywhere.

The other issue with having bad matchups against the single most represented deck in the meta is that you are increasingly likely to play against that deck as a tournament goes on. That's more true at a GP or PTQ than at a Daily or Premier, but the principle is still relevant. The best deck, BGx in this case, is probably going to have comparatively more players once you get to the top tables than at the lower ones. After all, it's a great deck.

That said, if you can get your BGx matchup to 45/55, or even 40/60, that should probably be enough. If you are enjoying a 60/40 against the rest of the field, you can afford the slightly unfavorable matchup to BGx.

Lord Seth
12-23-2013, 09:45 PM
But UWr is NOT the most popular deck. :wink:

Tron is not a combo deck, it's control.
Tron is a very hard deck to classify because it doesn't quite fit into any real category, but if I had to classify it as a single archetype I'd actually call it ramp.

Oh and thanks for the analysis, ktkenshinx.

sublime love
12-23-2013, 10:44 PM
@ ktkenshinx
do you not classify gb rock as a control deck?
Rock, as a style of deck, was known for it's early control, discard, creature kill, usually a sweeping effect, and hard hitting creatures

I would also call Jund as a control deck. I know it's midrange, but in modern most decks have a "midrange" mana curve to them.
(decay, thoughtseize, bolt, Liliana, all are control cards. Wile things like DRS, scavenging ooze have control elements)

JDK
12-25-2013, 05:26 AM
Tron is a very hard deck to classify because it doesn't quite fit into any real category, but if I had to classify it as a single archetype I'd actually call it ramp.
Ramp is no archetype per se, it's a sub-element which sees play mostly in Midrange decks.

Tron tries to control the early game with Pyroclasm, Ostone, Karn and co and then drop a big bad wolf. This is what makes it different from a combo deck. It also features inevitability, which is typical for control decks.

@ktkenshinx
Well, one can argue that the recent uprise of Twin is a Tenpo/combo deck.

ktkenshinx
12-25-2013, 09:10 AM
@ ktkenshinx
do you not classify gb rock as a control deck?
Rock, as a style of deck, was known for it's early control, discard, creature kill, usually a sweeping effect, and hard hitting creatures

I would also call Jund as a control deck. I know it's midrange, but in modern most decks have a "midrange" mana curve to them.
(decay, thoughtseize, bolt, Liliana, all are control cards. Wile things like DRS, scavenging ooze have control elements)
I would be comfortable classifying both Modern Jund and Modern BG Rock (BGw Souls) as either aggro-control or midrange. That's particularly true of the Jund and Ajundi decks that play threats higher on the curve like Huntmaster and Olivia. My only issue with that classification is that the BGx shell is capable of playing very aggressively, much more than many historic control decks. That's mostly a function of Goyf and Scooze, especially with DRS and Bolt direct damage back up. In that sense, Modern Jund has equal parts aggro elements (as in the old Standard Leech/BBE/Blightning Jund aggro deck) and midrange/control ones (TS, Decay, IoK, Lilly, Pulse), which makes it a different kind of control than UWR or Mono U Tron.

So I think a more accurate statement would be this: Modern doesn't have a lot of traditional control decks. It's possible that Modern, by virtue of its card pool, doesn't have room for traditional control archetypes when hybrids are equally viable. But that doesn't make the archetype any more present in the format.


@ktkenshinx
Well, one can argue that the recent uprise of Twin is a Tenpo/combo deck.
The more recent iterations of Twin are definitely tempo/combo hybrids. Clique, Mite, and Lavamancer are pretty formidable when backed up with burn and permission, especially with a combo finish threatened every turn. Delver is also a fairly viable tempo deck, particularly online.

Mr. Safety
02-22-2014, 10:50 AM
Looks like Amulet is making a splash in Valencia, as well as Living End. Seems like the zoo variant of choice is big zoo. Curious to see hiw the meta shakes out after this event.