PDA

View Full Version : [Deck] Elves!



Koby
04-09-2013, 04:03 PM
So R&D decided to throw Modern a nice bone with Beck // Call (or rather just the front half) since both Glimpse of Nature and Green Sun's Zenith are both banned for power level reasons. This means revitalization of the Elves archetype

During the latter days of the Extended season, the Elves deck was built to abuse Cloudstone Curio and Primal Command. Here is a list proposed by Gavin Verhey around the end of 2009.

2 Horizon Canopy
1 Pendelhaven
6 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Temple Garden

4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Arbor Elf
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Heritage Druid
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Essence Warden
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Shaman

4 Summoner's Pact
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Primal Command
3 Cloudstone Curio

Making some updates, we can easily cut Essence Warden and add instead Deathrite Shaman. Likely keeping the B splash for some SB disruption, here's a working model of a Modern Elves combo list:

Proposed List:

4 Beck//Call
4 Summoner's Pact
2 Primal Command
3 Cloudstone Curio

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Heritage Druid
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Archdruid
1 Eternal Witness
1 Regal Force
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Ranger of Eos

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Breeding Pool
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Forest

jarvisyu
04-09-2013, 04:19 PM
So R&D decided to throw Modern a nice bone with Beck // Call (or rather just the front half) since both Glimpse of Nature and Green Sun's Zenith are both banned for power level reasons. This means revitalization of the Elves archetype

During the latter days of the Extended season, the Elves deck was built to abuse Cloudstone Curio and Primal Command. Here is a list proposed by Gavin Verhey around the end of 2009.

2 Horizon Canopy
1 Pendelhaven
6 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Temple Garden

4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Arbor Elf
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Heritage Druid
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Essence Warden
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Shaman

4 Summoner's Pact
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Primal Command
3 Cloudstone Curio

Making some updates, we can easily cut Essence Warden and add instead Deathrite Shaman. Likely keeping the B splash for some SB disruption, here's a working model of a Modern Elves combo list:

Proposed List:

4 Beck//Call
4 Summoner's Pact
2 Primal Command
3 Cloudstone Curio

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Heritage Druid
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Archdruid
1 Eternal Witness
1 Regal Force
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Ranger of Eos

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Breeding Pool
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Forest

You can probably go down to ~16 lands, and play more 1 mana cost mana guys. It's a lot worse to get flooded mid combo than it is to draw 1 mana guys, for obvious reasons. I also might consider 1 Essence Warden as well or a Joraga Warcaller.

Tammit67
04-10-2013, 11:40 AM
Been trying to make UGb evles work, since I really dislike primal command. Something like this was decent before Beck was spoiled, although not quite where I wanted it consistency wise through disruption.

Something like:

2 Master biomancer
3 joraga warcaller
4 arbor elf
4 nettle sentinel
4 heritage druid
4 llanowar elf
4 elvish archdruid
4 summoner's pact
1 Craterhoof behemoth
4 deathrite shaman
4 cloudstone curio
4 elvish visionary

6 fetches
4 breeding pool
2 overgrown tomb
6 forest

The original idea revolved around the insane synergy between Master Biomancer and Joraga Warcaller, especially with curio. Had some problems with the UWR that seemed everywhere at Philly PTQ's, so I put the deck aside for Splinter twin.

I can definitely see where Jarvis is coming from and drop 2 of the basics for beck (reducing the land count to 16) and some of the more awkward draws for the other two copies, but I'm not sure I like essence warden all that much main. Most of the time it is just a one drop elf without that much value in keeping me alive, and if the gain life is negligible, I'd rather run warcallers and have the option to aggro at any moment.

Kayradis
04-12-2013, 06:41 AM
I've been toying with an idea similar to that for a while now. First started as a straight up Mono-G aggro elves (sooooo many loooooords!) then phased it away.

I know I saw a list running Mentor of The Meek as the draw engine. Any toughs on that? The W splash is already present. What's stops us from pushing it further?

Also, a 1 of any good silver bullets (Pridemade / Veridian Shaman) might not be a bad thing.

The Dead Weatherman
04-12-2013, 12:52 PM
Uh, previous two posters, I'm fairly certain that OP is leaning toward the combo version of Elves and not generic Elf beatdown.

Also: Are we just straight up casting Craterhoof?

DragoFireheart
04-12-2013, 02:31 PM
How fast and how often can you combo out and annihilate your opponent?

Koby
04-12-2013, 02:39 PM
Uh, previous two posters, I'm fairly certain that OP is leaning toward the combo version of Elves and not generic Elf beatdown.

Also: Are we just straight up casting Craterhoof?

The intent is indeed to combo, but Elves has always been aggro/combo hybrid. I've tested aggro elves in Modern and while it can win some matches, it doesn't have enough disruption to be a real contender. Beck//Call can turn that around by giving it a combo finish.

With Cloudstone Curio, it's very easy to generate arbitrary large amounts of mana. There's no other way to cheat Craterhood into play in Modern (or at least without playing suboptimal cards like Through the Breach).


How fast and how often can you combo out and annihilate your opponent?

I haven't tested any versions yet. It's significantly slower than Legacy versions, which have an absolute Turn 2 goldfish, and a typical turn 3/4 kill.
I am pegging the Modern version of the deck as a Turn 4 optimal kill. I need to test out the list and see where it falls in that benchmark.

With Primal Command I think the deck gains some staying power. Casting an early Craterhoof Behemoth might also be more than enough to win some games.

jarvisyu
04-12-2013, 04:21 PM
The intent is indeed to combo, but Elves has always been aggro/combo hybrid. I've tested aggro elves in Modern and while it can win some matches, it doesn't have enough disruption to be a real contender. Beck//Call can turn that around by giving it a combo finish.

With Cloudstone Curio, it's very easy to generate arbitrary large amounts of mana. There's no other way to cheat Craterhood into play in Modern (or at least without playing suboptimal cards like Through the Breach).



I haven't tested any versions yet. It's significantly slower than Legacy versions, which have an absolute Turn 2 goldfish, and a typical turn 3/4 kill.
I am pegging the Modern version of the deck as a Turn 4 optimal kill. I need to test out the list and see where it falls in that benchmark.

With Primal Command I think the deck gains some staying power. Casting an early Craterhoof Behemoth might also be more than enough to win some games.

With witness, curio, primal, you can easily just put all of their lands on top of their deck if necessary, as well (this happened once or twice when i was playing 'old' Elves when DDT was the deck in Extended).

I'm not really sure you need more than 1 Primal Command (I'd rather have a 2nd Ranger of Eos before the 2nd Primal Command).

Koby
04-12-2013, 04:38 PM
With witness, curio, primal, you can easily just put all of their lands on top of their deck if necessary, as well (this happened once or twice when i was playing 'old' Elves when DDT was the deck in Extended).

I'm not really sure you need more than 1 Primal Command (I'd rather have a 2nd Ranger of Eos before the 2nd Primal Command).

This is exactly what I was gunning for with the build proposed. There is likely a more streamlined Combo version without Primal Command focusing instead entirely on Beck/Curio engine. With the amount of Lightning Bolt in the format right now, I feel more comfortable with some alternate game plans.

DragoFireheart
04-12-2013, 06:44 PM
This is exactly what I was gunning for with the build proposed. There is likely a more streamlined Combo version without Primal Command focusing instead entirely on Beck/Curio engine. With the amount of Lightning Bolt in the format right now, I feel more comfortable with some alternate game plans.

If Legacy is the blue format and Vintage is the MUD format, Modern is the Bolt format.

I know some Legacy Elves list ran Vengevine in their 75. Would give you a renewable way to put a dude on the board, but I don't know if it's worth the slots considering that DRS is a card. Are there any other elf cards that could be a backup plan? Nothing really comes to mind beyond elves that make all of your elves bigger.

Koby
04-12-2013, 06:47 PM
Sideboard could go in many directions:

- Abrupt Decay to kill Torpor Orb (good lord this is going to be an issue)
- Thoughtseize to disrupt
- Root Maze to further disrupt
- RIP
- Dispel
etc

I think the reactive gameplan will likely be the first iteration. Boarding into Fauna Shaman and heavy-hitting lords could also work, but I can't imagine it being successful if the deck is already prone to spot and mass removal.

DragoFireheart
04-12-2013, 07:33 PM
Yeah, especially the WUR decks. It's really obnoxious how many bolt spells they run and some lists have Verdict in the side (which only discard can stop).

But, you're already going white and blue, right? Can you even make black as a splash for discard work?

The Dead Weatherman
04-13-2013, 02:03 AM
Why not stick to BUG if discard and Abrupt Decay are good options? You wouldn't mind having maindeck black mana for Deathrite Shaman anyway.

And you do have Elves of Deep Shadow.

Kayradis
04-15-2013, 08:55 AM
Sideboard could go in many directions:

- Abrupt Decay to kill Torpor Orb (good lord this is going to be an issue)
- Thoughtseize to disrupt
- Root Maze to further disrupt
- RIP
- Dispel
etc

I think the reactive gameplan will likely be the first iteration. Boarding into Fauna Shaman and heavy-hitting lords could also work, but I can't imagine it being successful if the deck is already prone to spot and mass removal.

Abrupt Decay will be a must in the SB. Torpor Orb IS a standard SB card against Twins and its quite present.

Lemme know once you figure a list out, I'd really like to test it.

Tammit67
04-15-2013, 04:52 PM
Uh, previous two posters, I'm fairly certain that OP is leaning toward the combo version of Elves and not generic Elf beatdown.

Also: Are we just straight up casting Craterhoof?

The list I had posted is in fact combo. It could turn 2 with a specific hand, but untapping with curio was usually enough to kill that turn. Master was there to supplement a plan B with warcaller, but also let you go arbitrary on Craterhoof if necessary.

The rough sideboard I was toying with was:
4 Vengevine
3 abrupt decay
2 viridian shaman
2 Imperious perfect
4 something (trophy hunter against delver? :) )

I wanted to play unfair against the simple decks while boarding into the grindy advantage offered by vengevine and perfect against decks like UWR or jund where comboing through the removal proves difficult.

Has ranger/primal really been that good for you?

Kayradis
04-15-2013, 09:32 PM
4 something (trophy hunter against delver? :) )



Lys Alana Bowmaster?

s6sculve
05-08-2013, 02:40 AM
This is my version, usually kill on turn 4, rarely turn 3.

Creature (32)
4x Arbor Elf
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Heritage Druid
4x Coiling Oracle
3x Elvish Visionary
4x Elvish Archdruid
3x Scryb Ranger
2x Craterhoof Behemoth

Land (18)
4x Breeding Pool
2x Flooded Grove
4x Forest
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Verdant Catacombs

Sorcery (6)
4x Beck
2x Elvish Promenade

Instant (4)
4x Summoner's Pact

MirrorMask
06-24-2013, 12:12 AM
Since glimpse and green sun zenith are banned then why not make an aggro list than trying to adapt the legacy combo ?
What do you think for the following cards? Can they make a decent, competitive deck?

Talara's battalion
wren's run vanquisher
deathrite shaman
imperious perfect
joraga warcaller
nettle sentinel
bramblewood paragon
ezuri,renegade
elvish archdruid
aether vial

paeng4983
06-26-2013, 01:30 AM
Since glimpse and green sun zenith are banned then why not make an aggro list than trying to adapt the legacy combo ?
What do you think for the following cards? Can they make a decent, competitive deck?

Talara's battalion
wren's run vanquisher
deathrite shaman
imperious perfect
joraga warcaller
nettle sentinel
bramblewood paragon
ezuri,renegade
elvish archdruid
aether vial

Pyroclasm, firesprout, eng. explosive, and the like would like to say hi to these.
^_^

YamiJoey
06-26-2013, 08:33 AM
Pyroclasm, firesprout, eng. explosive, and the like would like to say hi to these.
^_^

Affinity is proof that your deck full of X/1's is actually good in this format.

Next.

YamiJoey
10-13-2013, 03:32 PM
So this is more of a Druids deck than an Elves deck, but:

// Spells: 43
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Voyaging Satyr
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Gilt-Leaf Archdruid
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn

// Lands: 17
3 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden

// Sideboard
3 Unified Will
3 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Krosan Grip
2 Proclimation of Rebirth
2 Creeping Corrosion

Seems sweet. Getting tonnes of T3's with it, and when I don't I make a billion 2/2's.

EDIT: Thinking about Red for Ruric Thar in the board, cutting a Breeding Pool. I'm unlikely to have much LD to fear, as Tech Edge is irrelivent. I could also be using Borborygmos as a win con, as I can Pact for it. I can't use mono-Green mana for it, meaning Voyaging Satyr and Arbor Elf are my only ways of casting it, short of Tooth and Nail. Regal Force may just be better. I just don't like having to attempt to continue the combo when I have a billion mana, and can't Pact for Emrakul, but I really want to just find and cast an Emrakul. Possibly just cut the Tooth and Nail?

Phoenix Ignition
10-14-2013, 12:10 AM
Is Unified Will really better than Negate? I'd assume anything you're countering is going to be non-creature spells, and putting a conditional clause on that seems pretty bad for you (not that it's likely they'll have more creatures, but what if?).

YamiJoey
10-14-2013, 03:09 AM
There are Creatures out there that can slow your aggro plan to a halt, so I'd like answers for those Creatures. I've actually not thought about Negate, though, so I'll have to keep track of how relevant it would be, and possibly make the change.

I'm also going to go:
-1 Llanowar Elves
-1 Tooth and Nail
-1 Emrakul
+2 Regal Force
+1 Craterhoof Behemoth

-1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
+1 Forest or Fetchland

I need an additional Green Land, as my draws have been super awkward without. Regal Force is also too good not to play. I'm not keen on cutting the Nykthos, though.

Phoenix Ignition
10-14-2013, 04:57 PM
This may be a stupid idea, but I really like Burning-Tree Emissary in the Standard Nykthos decks. The bonus in your deck is that you could splash red easier (you can play Borborygmos off of red mana from Nykthos + B-TE), and he makes for some really fast acceleration. Turn 2 you could easily have 4/6/8/10 mana from Nykthos by having 1/2/3/4 BTEs.

He also isn't bad with Craterhoof, if that's your main win condition.

Not an elf, but can really boost your devotion and speed.

YamiJoey
10-14-2013, 07:49 PM
She does seem sweet. I may look into just cutting the Gilt-Leaf Archdruids and going for the more regular Elves build, using Beck & Call as the main draw engine.