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Pans-Advocate
05-26-2013, 04:46 AM
Hi guys, I've been working on this idea for a couple weeks now and I think I've got it tuned enough to start talking about it. The idea started kicking around on Salvation when Hidden Strings was printed in DGM and people over there have been doing interesting things with Gifts Ungiven, but it wasn't long before this variant turned up and demonstrated itself to be (in my opinion) the superior way to abuse mana auras and untap effects.

Jacob Van Lunen wrote an article on a Pauper version of this deck back in 2009, as Google has demonstrated to me, and I think the changes from that list available in the Modern format make this potentially viable.

Without further ado, the list I've arrived at:

3 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Steam Vents

4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Fertile Ground
2 Verdant Haven

4 Dream's Grip
4 Psychic Puppetry
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Reach Through Mists
2 Past in Flames
1 Grapeshot
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Remand
1 Echoing Truth

SB: 2 Pithing Needle
1 Echoing Truth
3 Pyroclasm
2 Dispel
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Squelch
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Burst of Speed

Basically the game plan is simple: play land auras on the first 2-3 turns, find a Psychic Puppetry, and then go off with a deck that has suddenly become irretrievably broken. With a land that produces UUU (usually U/G + U + X, with a Sprawl set to blue and a Ground) and a Puppetry in hand, your Dream's Grips are blue Dark Rituals, your Ideas Unbound are free Ancestral Recalls, your Peer Through Depths are free Impulses, and your Reach Through Mists are Manamorphoses that net a mana. Each land aura you add gives you an extra mana per arcane spell or Twiddle effect you cast. Usually, after a chain of free Ideas and Peers, you find a Dream's Grip and a Past in Flames, cast them both so as to PIF with U up, use it to untap your land, recast all your digging and draw spells, and at this point finding Grapeshot for 20 or Shot -> Remand -> Shot for lethal (in case you found more mana makers than card draw and your storm count is lower than 20 with no way to dig into more action) should be purely academic.

The deck is totally capable of winning on turn 3 and in testing I have seen this occur about 1 in perhaps 5 or 6 games. It is not often that the deck finds itself unable to threaten a win until turn 5 or later, and turn 4 is a standard goldfish assuming no disruption (and often despite some). It is even conceivably possible to win on turn 2, although this is invariably pretty dicey and probably not safe to try unless under extreme pressure, and even then only with the very strong hands that would otherwise win turn 3.

This list is not quite as resilient to hate as the old UR Storm lists from before Seething Song was banned, primarily because in the end it still relies on permanents. Abrupt Decay is a relevant card against this deck, for example. And there are some cards that cause serious problems, specifically Spellskite, Cryptic Command, Ghost Quarter, and Karn Liberated, since basically anything that can interact with your land in an unrestricted fashion is going to be devastating if deployed the turn before you combo off (Spellskite is bad because it can redirect all your untaps, and you can't win with an active Spellskite on the field). Blood Moon is also scary because our best starts involve Utopia Sprawl, which falls off the Breeding Pool that we put it on if it becomes a Mountain.

However, any deck that is just trying to play a fair game of Magic (along with some hybrid combo decks that aren't necessarily) is likely to lose a race to our goldfish, and control decks are put in a rough position by the fact that there is so much redundancy in the deck once the combo is assembled (and the crucial combo card sits in our hand without ever going on the stack) that countering a single Ideas or Peer is often not enough - we'll just go off again next turn, or Twiddle our land and start again. Any deck that doesn't clock us will probably lose to running out of reactive answers unless they completely and proactively eradicate our hand, and even hand disruption is sometimes not enough.

Most of the cards are pretty self-explanatory... 15 land (high fetch count due to always always wanting Breeding Pool on turn 1), 10 auras, 8 cantrips, 16 Arcane spells, 4 "rituals," a finishing package of 2 Past in Flames and a Grapeshot, and 4 utility slots. The utility slots are interesting ... between Remand, Merchant Scroll, and Muddle the Mixture you have 2 counterspells, 2 tutors, and a "2nd Grapeshot," all in 3 slots, which makes for a very elegant use of space. The singleton Echoing Truth is primarily for Spellskite in g1 and can also just stall for time or bounce a Deathrite or Thalia.

The sideboard choices are probably self-explanatory but just to be clear:
-Pithing Needle vs Ghost Quarter, Spellskite, Deathrite Shaman
-Squelch vs Ghost Quarter (this might be loose but it's been useful in the past)
-Echoing Truth vs Leylines, Thalia, Gaddock Teeg, Cage, etc (only 1 because we already have one main plus 2 tutors)
-Leyline of Sanctity vs decks that race you with burn or have extreme targeted discard
-Dispel vs Cryptic Command and other countermagic
-Empty/Burst of Speed against Extraction effects and Leyline of Sanctity (this has not yet been useful but it's a hedge)

I think you'll find in testing that this deck can be surprisingly powerful. Any thoughts are welcome.

Viridia
05-26-2013, 05:08 AM
Seems interesting, putting some card tags around it to be able to easily read the cards and get some comments in later :)





3 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Steam Vents

4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Fertile Ground
2 Verdant Haven

4 Dream's Grip
4 Psychic Puppetry
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Reach Through Mists
2 Past in Flames
1 Grapeshot
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Remand
1 Echoing Truth

SB:
2 Pithing Needle
1 Echoing Truth
3 Pyroclasm
2 Dispel
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Squelch
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Burst of Speed

TheStockholmSound
05-26-2013, 10:13 AM
Cool deck, have you tried hidden stirrings? While you can't splice it, it seems better on its own than Psychic Puppetry.
It's not an instant, but I'm not sure how relevant that is.

(nameless one)
05-26-2013, 01:18 PM
What about Heartbeat of Spring instead of all that land auras?

This deck reminds me of Pauper's Twiddle Storm and I loved that deck.

Also, I saw a funny sideboard for Storm: Guttersnipe + Curiosity

kwis
05-26-2013, 08:56 PM
How well does this deck do?

It looks incredibly fun to play.


I definitely think that Heartbeat could do more for you than Haven in the case you have 2 spells to splice and need 2 lands as targets. I suppose the problem would be

Is there any value in adding Desperate ritual to the deck as another splice engine and splice target or is R mana generally useless?

Pans-Advocate
05-27-2013, 03:30 AM
Responses to questions asked thus far:

Psychic Puppetry is better than Hidden Strings (and Twiddle, and Dream's Grip, and Toils of Night and Day) because it makes your draw and digs spells into untaps, rather than requiring that you alternate between rituals (untaps) and draw spells to boost your mana and card resources one at a time. With the Puppetry engine your draw spells ARE ALSO rituals.

Heartbeat has one advantage over Verdant Haven: it allows multiple copies of Psychic Puppetry in our hand to be simultaneously relevant. As it stands our 2nd and 3rd and 4th copies of Puppetry are just bad copies of Dream's Grip. However, it has a variety of cons as well:
-we never want to tap out for it and pass the turn because we could just die to giving our opponent double mana.
-we can't use it to make mana of just any color. This is relevant because we do actually have to cast red spells to win the game, but we never want to be using lands that are not Breeding Pool to do it, since Pool is the ideal target for our Utopia Sprawls. The only reason we'd ever put auras on a land that is not a Breeding Pool is if we're scared of Blood Moon effects and using a basic Forest, and this DOES make it significantly harder to win, since green mana is effectively colorless during our combo turn in most games (sometimes we want to add auras in the middle of comboing, but usually we don't really need to).
-it doesn't gain us 2 life. This is actually sometimes relevant, since we generally start the game at an effective 14-15 due to our mana base. (We'd definitely play the 5th and 6th copy of either of our other auras so as not to pay 3 mana for the effect, but we have to take what we can get.)

Since extra Puppetries can still net us some amount of mana and boost our storm count, using Heartbeat to give us extra splicing capacity seems pretty marginal, and definitely not worth the chance of just dying to a turbocharged opponent the turn after we cast it.

Desperate Ritual is probably bad, and I have to admit that I haven't bothered to test it because red mana is virtually useless ... we only need 3 red mana over the course of an entire combo turn, at most ... usually 2, and sometimes just 1.

Guttersnipe + Curiosity is ... interesting. Veeeeery interesting. I don't really think this is the deck for it, though, since it's only good if we CAN storm off but we CAN'T make it to a Grapeshot kill, and that is just not a likely occurrence ... the deck barely ever fizzles except when it's trying to go off with extremely limited resources out of desperation.

By the way, I pulled off the Magical Christmasland Turn 2 Kill in testing today.
Opening hand (on the draw): Breeding Pool, Misty Rainforest, Utopia Sprawl, Serum Visions, Remand, Peer Through Depths, Psychic Puppetry.
Turn 1: Opponent plays Faithless Looting. I draw Ideas Unbound on draw step, play Pool untapped, enchant it with Sprawl, pass
Turn 2: Opponent plays a second Faithless Looting, gets a Bloodghast in the graveyard, plays land and Deathrite Shaman. I draw Utopia Sprawl on draw step, fetch for another Breeding Pool untapped, enchant Sprawl to untapped and already enchanted land to assemble the combo. Cast Peer for free, find Reach Through Mists. Cast Ideas for free, draw a second Reach, a second Ideas, and Grapeshot. Cast second Ideas for free, find Fertile Ground and 2 irrelevant cards. Cast Reach netting U, draw Ideas, cast Ideas, draw a second Puppetry and a Peer. Peer into Past in Flames. Cast second Reach netting U, draw Dream's Grip. Cast Dream's Grip to net UG (UUUG floating). Cast Fertile Ground (land now taps for U/G+U+U+X, UU floating). Cast extra Puppetry to net UR, cast Past in Flames with last floating mana (combo land still untapped). I now have 9 mana-and-card-netting spells in my yard (3x Ideas, 2x Reach, 2x Peer, 1x Dream's Grip, 1x Puppetry), a storm count of 12, and Grapeshot (and Remand!) already in hand. Opponent is deader than dead. Admittedly I had to run VERY good to keep the chain going (blindly hitting perfect cards off both Reach Through Mists was the reason it actually happened, and when the game was locked up I only had 5 unnecessary cards in hand out of 20 drawn cards which is an INSANE hit rate) but as I played it out it just felt easy. Furthermore, if I had partially fizzled and passed the turn without enough mana to Shot+Remand+Shot, I could still have Shotted for partial damage, killed Deathrite, and probably still won within a turn or two after that. The deck often leaves itself in a decent position even when it does fizzle, since resolving Past In Flames on any turn after fizzling is usually GG.

anonymos
05-28-2013, 09:32 AM
I've been glaring at your Magical Christmasland summary for the last 10 minutes trying to figure out how you were playing things for free. Then I realized that Psychic Puppetry has splice onto arcane and you were splicing it onto everything. It may help when you run through play summaries to point this out at least once. It'll help people understand what's going on and encourage more feedback other than "Dur...I don't get it".

I am rather intrigued by this idea and since the cards I don't own already are on the cheap end, I will probably try this out.

Pans-Advocate
05-28-2013, 01:40 PM
Sorry about that, I figured I'd explained sufficiently in the initial post but I can see how that would look confusing.

If you have the mana base, the deck is cheap as dirt. I think the entire spell base (not including the sideboard) can be had for less than 30$ and the single Remand is a third of that on its own. The costliest part of the sideboard is the Leylines and they are easily the least used cards in my experience and probably not necessary.

kombatkiwi
05-28-2013, 07:15 PM
Going to test this now, looks super fun.
Is verdant haven better than overgrowth?
Edit: It is, because you bottleneck on blue mana rather than green but having a lack of land-enchantments seems to be a reason for a lot of my fizzles/goldfishes that take too long
I think you might want to cut a lot of the random 1-ofs for like another Verdant haven or two or even a card like twiddle just to make the combo more consistent
Playing a Simic Growth Chamber as a 1 or 2 of gives you something to do with extra psychic puppetries but im not sure if this is worth doing

kwis
05-28-2013, 08:34 PM
What do you think about Disrupting Shoal as protection?

kombatkiwi
05-28-2013, 09:31 PM
What do you think about Disrupting Shoal as protection?

Really bad
The deck inconsistent enough as it is, including cards like this and expecting to go off with it in your deck (let alone after exiling part of your engine to cast it) seems way too ambitious to succeed.

I still don't feel like it's strong enough to be a competitive deck. Maybe cut some cards for Gitaxian Probe? Thins your deck for the key pieces and works well with past in flames.

So far I quite like this list
I don't feel all the random one-of spells are needed at all
Youd much rather try to ensure the success of your turn 3-4 combo

// Lands
1 Simic Growth Chamber
3 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Island

// Spells
1 Grapeshot
4 Psychic Puppetry
2 Past in Flames
4 Verdant Haven
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Reach Through Mists
4 Fertile Ground
4 Dream's Grip
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand

Terminus
05-29-2013, 05:05 PM
This deck looks sweet, but I fail to see how Heartbeat of Spring isn't 20 times better than Haven. The two life is basically irrelevant, the fact that it enchants the land doesn't matter, and the bonus mana your opponent is going to get is more or less irrelevant if you cast it and pass the turn. The only possible problem is that it doesn't produce red mana for PiF/Grapeshot, but it's rare you're going off without drawing a Utopia Sprawl or Fertile Ground, given then number of cards you're drawing. Has anyone tried it out?

kombatkiwi
05-29-2013, 11:14 PM
This deck looks sweet, but I fail to see how Heartbeat of Spring isn't 20 times better than Haven. The two life is basically irrelevant, the fact that it enchants the land doesn't matter, and the bonus mana your opponent is going to get is more or less irrelevant if you cast it and pass the turn. The only possible problem is that it doesn't produce red mana for PiF/Grapeshot, but it's rare you're going off without drawing a Utopia Sprawl or Fertile Ground, given then number of cards you're drawing. Has anyone tried it out?

The main problem is the fact that often you will have to pass the turn after casting it, giving your opponent the extra mana. You're essentially correct to argue that the problem of not making red is in fact a non-problem. The two life from Verdant Haven is sometimes relevant. The most common number of lands I seem to be going off with is three so Heartbeat will add 2 extra mana over Verdant Haven, possibly more if you are able to splice multiple Psychic Puppetries onto your arcane spells. This is definitely enough of a benefit to test it out over Verdant Haven.

anonymos
06-07-2013, 01:25 PM
Saw a list similar to the deck in this thread posted in an article today.

http://legitmtg.com/competitive/gifts-into-unburial-rites-combo-deck-fail-to-find/

I think a hybrid of the two lists is a good direction to look. Gifts Ungiven seems helpful for us.

kombatkiwi
06-08-2013, 08:20 PM
Saw a list similar to the deck in this thread posted in an article today.

http://legitmtg.com/competitive/gifts-into-unburial-rites-combo-deck-fail-to-find/

I think a hybrid of the two lists is a good direction to look. Gifts Ungiven seems helpful for us.

Maybe! Gifts -> Flames certainly seems like something we could use
The deck in the article has to splash more for cards like Toils and Hidden Strings so that it can Gifts 4 untap effects into the bin. Once you're cutting more cards for these effects and gifts your density of arcane spells becomes worryingly low. I think that it could be worth testing some hybrid version of the deck but most likely one version (gifts or arcane) is just a strictly worse version of the other one so all that remains is to find out which one is better

aaadawgie
08-04-2013, 12:41 PM
I've been working on a similar deck and stumbled upon this thread. I love your build. Mine is quite different and I have not tested yours extensively, so I'm not claiming mine is better by any means. Just posting it to see if there are any thoughts. When I've tested them both I'll try to post some comparisons.

I think Heartbeat has another significant advantage over verdant haven: it is not vulnerable to land destruction, which helps with a significant problem of the deck. Problem with both of them is I often don't have three mana available. I'm currently making do without a third land enchantment. This causes the deck to have a higher mulligan rate, but there are more action spells, so it can survive more mulligans. I do have a couple simic growth chambers as pseudo land enchantments.

I play more tutors and less cantrips, which allows better choices for mulligans, since you know what those tutors represent, whereas cantrips are unknowns. There are a lot of one of's to make gifts ungiven more potent. Even though its a one of, it gets cast most games since it's the best target for a late merchant scroll.

Eerie procession is often left off these lists, but I find it to be stellar. It searches for psychic puppetry early game and chains to up the storm count late game. It is also ideas unbound 5-7. I cut remand from the mainboard since I haven't needed it to hit the storm count game one, but it is a good card and could easily be put back in.

Gifts ungiven often wins on the spot and usually grabs three twiddle effects and a Past in Flames. Epic experiment converts mana into wins and is not vulnerable to graveyard hate, so it is great post-board. Most of the wins involve gifts, past in flames, and/or epic experiment, so it's important to not be all in on the graveyard plan.

Here's the list:

4 utopia sprawl
4 fertile ground

1 gitaxian probe
1 sleight of hand
1 serum visions
4 peer into depths
4 Ideas unbound

4 reach into mists
3 psychic puppetry
3 merchant scroll
3 eerie procession
1 grapeshot
1 past in flames
1 Gifts ungiven
2 muddle the mixture
1 epic experiment
1 noxious revival
1 twiddle
1 dreams grip
1 Faithless looting
1 izzet charm
1 Compulsive research


16 land
2 simic growth chamber
4 breeding pool
1 stomping grounds
1 island
1 forest
7 fetch


The board is not set yet, but it definitely will have a blue suns zenith as another gas card that doesn't require the graveyard and doubles as a win condition, as well as empty the warrens which is another low mana win condition to beat hate.