[Deck] Bob the Belcher - A control deck

[Raider Bob]

I haven't made a deck list of the deck I am playing for awhile now, since mana drains were allowed to be played. So with the deck top 8ing in the Mox Jet and The Dual Land touny I decided to post the list and explain my choices and the decks matchups.

1CC
4 Brainstorm
4 Sword To Plowshares
3 Orim's Chant
4 Enlightened Tutor

2CC
2 Mana Severence
2 Isocron Scepter
3 Standstill
4 Counterspell

3CC
2 Crucible of Worlds (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?name=Crucible+of+Worlds)
1 Vedalken Shackles

4CC
3 Wrath of God
1 Goblin Charbelcher

5CC
4 Force of will

Land
3 Island
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra Factory
3 Farie Conclaive
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
1 CoP Red
2 Pulse of the Fields
2 Tormonds Crypt
3 Meddling Mage
3 Discenchants
2 Rule of Law
1 Gea's Blessing
1 Decree of Justice

CARDS

Brainstorm
I really can not say enough about this card. Couples with the Fetchlands and even Isocron Septer early Brainstorms can fix your hand and get you out of a jam. This is card you want to always see in your hand. Using the Brainstorm correctly can be tricky.
Sword to Plowshares
This is a staple in any control deck sporting W. In the current meta game this is a must to have a four of.
Orim's Chant
This should find its way into many control decks. I find in many games this is a card when used properly can just win you the game. If it is in response to a eight spell storm count, a turn one dark ritual or in responce to a counterspell followed by your counterspell so your spell resolves the card is a lot more versitile than just being on a stick. It is also a soft lock or a Hard lock when put on a stick so this card is very versitile when used correctly.
Enlightened Tutor
This is the blood that lets this deck work. It is also the weakest card in the deck. A turn 1 Tutor can set you up for victory against much of the meta game. A late game meta can fetch you the win condition you need but can also be the doomed topdeck you hate to see when it shows up. It needs to be a four of to allow me to have the deckspace to play one of a kind and less redundant choices. This also makes the deck less redundant. If you want to dance with the devil you need to make some tough choices.
Mana Severence
This card is power! When you cast Mana severence you win the game 90% of the time. Your draws become always good and if you have Goblin Charbelcher out you just win Baby. This is a dead card in multiples/Barring Force of Will Fodder so only two are played.
Isocron Scepter
I cut the Scepter count from 3-2. I found that drawing more than 1 scepter was not effective in most of my matches and I can tutor for the one I need.
Standstill
This is the decks main draw engine. The deck can run as Landstill but contains a lock and a combo kill, standstill is a very important component to the well being of this deck. It will drop a turn 2 standstill 80-90% of the time.
Counterspell
The deck runs a compliment of 8 counterspells for protection. No coutermagic is better in the current metagame for cost/effect.
Crucible of Worlds
Infinate Misha, wasteland lock, Brainstorm/fetchland manipulation and anti land destruction make this a key card in many match-ups.
Vedalken Shackles
Ths best control Magic ever made. This card always seems to find its way back into the deck. This card has become a win condition in many of my match-up's. As thsi is not a fundementally intrigal part of this deck it is a 1 of.
Wrath of God
Sweeping weenie critters or the board of bigger critters is very very important for this deck. There is nothing worse than falling prey to a bunch of little guys, or a few quick big guys.
Goblin Charbelcher
The card that can blick you a win. There is no better feeling than droping a Belcher turn 4 and killing a person turn 5. Well pulling the wings off fly's is kinda fun too.
Force of Will
The other 4 counterspells that alow you the luxury of tapping out.
LandBase
4 Wastelands - The Non-basic land hate that can stifle your opponent long enough for you to gain control of the game.
7 Manlands - The additions of Faerie conclaives made the Landstill matchup more managable.
4 Fetchlands - This will fix mana issues and makes Brainstomr a great card.
The Basics - With so much non-basic hate in the Meta game running asome basic lands to keep your head above drowning is very important.
Dual lands - simply there are non-better.

Match-ups.

Survival - The deck has a very strong matchup winning a majority of the matches.

Solidarity - A horrible horrible match-up preboard, post board you board in to an assload of hate but game one you are in a lot of trouble.

Solitare - If you can keep the draw engine offline you are golden, but all in all this is a bad matchup for you.

Landstill - This is usually a toss up it really comes down to who makes the first mistake.

Sorcery speed combo - This is generally an ez match up for you with the main deck chants you should have very few losses here.

The Game - Brainstorm is the Games worst enemy 20-0 is a fairly strong record for this match-up.

Garv.deck/Zoo - A very good matchup barring horrible draws.

Angel stompy - You will win this match-up if you can stop Armageddon.

Threshold decks - Very 50/50 generally comes down to who top decks better.

This is a very hard deck to play properly, every choice can be your last and you need to not make play mistakes. I have had a lot of success with this deck recently and hope you can have success with it also.

[Anonymous]

Looks like a pretty solid build.
The Vintage versions of this run Gifts Ungiven, have you considered this?

[Braves54321]

Looks like a pretty solid build.
The Vintage versions of this run Gifts Ungiven, have you considered this?
The Vintage versions run gifts for a whole other reason than you're probably thinking white ghost, and it doesn't apply in Legacy.

The vintage builds usually gifts for: Tinker, Time Walk, Recoup, Yawgmoth's Will, something we're not doing in 1.5 so intuition would be strictly better as a search card, which this deck does not need becuase it plays standstill and brainstorm, as well as E Tutor as draw/search.


Bob: I see you've cut cunning wish, was it simply too slow? I liked the added flexibility it used to add to the deck.

Also, I question the lack of fact or fiction, which usually as a 2 of can be great in control decks(this is mostly off testing landstill, which your deck is very similar to).

[colsmack]

Why not use more belchers? This seems more like U/W Landstill, with belcher and mana severance in place of disk and some other pieces. This deck seems to lack focus, are you playing Manabelcher or Landstill?

[Brushwagg]

Why not use more belchers? This seems more like U/W Landstill, with belcher and mana severance in place of disk and some other pieces. This deck seems to lack focus, are you playing Manabelcher or Landstill?


It's neither. It's Bob.Dec. Bob has been doing well with it and it's really tough to beat. I'd probably play it but I can't stand playing this much of a control deck. To me is really no fun which leads to me making mistakes. As Bob said you can't afford mistakes so I just leave it to the pro.

[currence]

@White_Ghost

braves54321 summed it up about Gifts, you can't Gifts for Tinker, Yawg's Will, or Time Walk, without which Recoup is pretty lame. Another core reason why this deck shouldn't even try to run Gifts is because Legacy has no Mana Drain. Mana Drain is a HUGE tempo card, and that is why SSB or the CS + Gifts Vintage are combo-control (emphasis on combo) whereas this is control with a possible combo win (Shackles and the Menland beats is nothing to look down on).

[DampingEngine]

I just wanted to vouch for the power of this deck. I was kept out of first place not once, but twice by Bob running this deck. I just can't figure out how a deck based on three combos could work, but I admit that it does work very well.

[colsmack]

I think that this deck is at its best when it can pull a random win with belcher. Is this correct?

[Brushwagg]

I think that this deck is at its best when it can pull a random win with belcher. Is this correct?

Wrong. Belcher is one win condition. The deck is very thought out, it can run under Standstill, Chant lock you out, and use Belcher all in the same game if needed. So if you like a heavy control deck with a possible combo finish try it out.

[AnwarA101]

I just wanted to vouch for the power of this deck. I was kept out of first place not once, but twice by Bob running this deck. I just can't figure out how a deck based on three combos could work, but I admit that it does work very well.
This deck hardly makes sense to me. I mean it seems like its a cross between landstill, scepter-chant, and severance-belcher which doesn't seem like it should work at all. But I have to say that it always seems to work against me as well. I've lost to Bob both times I've played him in Tournament with this deck. Maybe this deck throws synergy to the wind and says give me power and I'll show you who is boss. You can't argue with the success Bob has had with the deck, but it still feels clunky to me.

[Nightmare]

Reason this deck works:

Enlightened Tutor.

This card is the MVP of Bob.dec. It fetches up every important thing in the deck that makes it possible for the combos to work. lets list the tutor targets (pre-board)

Standstill
Crucible
Belcher
Scepter
Shackles

Thats at least half of each combo, with brainstorm/fetchlands digging for half #2.

Post board, you get to add the following to the list:

CoP Red
Crypt
Rule of Law
(I would run Humility)

seems like it wins because of 3 things:

1) Enlightened Tutor
2) Tutorable hosers for most archetypes
3) Bob is a fantastic player, who topdecks like a champ.

[colsmack]

hmmm, maybe this is worth throwing together. I still think a second belcher is needed though.

[Brushwagg]

I thought Bob did run 2. Maybe it got cut for more control.

@Colsmack:I think your seeing the Belcher and thinking that's how the deck wins. When playing Bob.dec you want to play more like Landstill and slow the game down and chip away with Man-Lands. Then if you happen to get Belcher you can just win. I hope that helps.

[Raider Bob]

@Running more than 1 Belcher.

-The deck runs 5 for all purposes, if anything running a 3rd mana Severence seems to be more important than another belcher. This deck is very different without Enlightened Tutor, I used to run more belchers btw but added the Isocrons with chant and that just made the deck more consistant when I play it.

@Mr. Nightmare

-You are absolutly 100% correct the tutors used correctly are your best friend. You seem to have a great grasp for the way the deck is supposed to work.

@Being clunky

-I really think you need to play the deck a few 100 times to get a feel for what you should be doing. I played CavernNinja in Va. and he was basically saying the samething to me like I play a pile of 60 cards and he can't seem to get it to work..then I beat up on him 2-0 and said he was just going to scratch his head and shrug as he continues to try and figure it out.

@A lack of Focus

-This is tuff to explain. First of all you need to understand how I think and how I play. Turn 1-4 you need to decide if your the Aggro player or the Control player, when you know your role you play the deck 100% in that direction. More often than not this is the aggro deck. A turn 2 Scepter/Chant lock can just win you the game and a turn 2 win is pretty cool. A turn 5 kill is very cool with Belcher. A slow beatdown with lands is very cool with manlands. You mix all of them up the deck just works. My feeling about legacy is you need multiple ways to victory. Many times I have heard 'I boarded out the crainial extractions because it does nothing against your deck'. So the build is pretty good the way it is atm.

@RandomBelcher Win

-This isn't as random as you may think. When I hit a Mana Severence in my first 12-16 cards factoring in Brainstorms and fetchlands a turn 5 win is fairly consistant. When I do not hit the severence you wont see the belcher hit and I will be setting up the deck in a different way.

@Running a Humility

-Im not sold on this just because it messes with the Manlands.

@The Gifts engine

- I have considered this after I saw that version. As that deck is tuff to beat is is very disruptable and not very 1.5ish. I have actually tried many different versions of this deck as many perple can attest.

Like I said if you are not a hard core control player this is a tuff deck to play. If you are a hard core control player can can figure out what your role is going to be in the matchup this may be the deck you want to play. Then again you can always play a simple deck like landstill.

On a side note the side board is very set up to give the deck a musch stronger chance against solidarity. That being said it will probably change a little the next time I play it.

[Raider Bob]

I have been messing with Fastbond in Type 1 in a landstill build and the tempo advantage is so huge I am contemplating trying it in my 1.5 deck. I can not use fastbond obviously so I am looking at Exploration, the only spots that they can really fit into would be the 5 slots dedicated to Chant/Stick.

-3 Chants
-2 Isocron Scepter
-1 Island
+3 Exploration
+3 Tropical Island

I am not sure if the Tempo advantage is going to make up for the loss of the Chant/Lock combo in the deck. In testplaying 2 Wastelands/turn or recurring 2 Mishra Factory's or double Fetchlanding has been a huge advantage over many of the top decks in the format. I am going to further testplay this and see how it pans out.

[Brushwagg]

-3 Chants
-2 Isocron Scepter
-1 Island
+3 Exploration
+3 Tropical Island


I like the idea of adding Exploration. I don't like the idea of replacing Chant and Stick. I got to thinking about it, you are replacing pretty much an auto win with a conditional card.
Have you thought of cutting the Belcher combo out and putting it in the board. That seems to me a better plan.
If I played you I would fear Chant lock more than Exploration. But test and let us know how it went.

[legacyplayer]

I think you should cut the standstills and crucibles, and add more a 4th wrath, some more draw, and maybe another severence. This would also take away the drawback of putting humility in the main/side board. My reasoning behind this is that if you can get your opponent into a position where he has to race you, he is in a very bad possition, because if he overextends, you wrath, and if he doesn't, he takes a lethal belch. It's like if tooth and nail were able to run wrath. Aggro would never be able to reliably beat it without getting profusely lucky, and control wouldn't either, because tooth could devote their whole sideboard to beating it and the mirror match. To the relief of everyone who plays type 2, wrath is ww2, so that situation can't occur, but in this format it can, if you can have a reliable combo like severence/belcher in the same deck as wrath. With aggro completely out of the way, you can pile on the control and combo hate in the sideboard, which would make this deck favored against most of the field.

[Raider Bob]

@LegacyPlayer - I am actually very interested in what you have to say in your post. However the problem I am having with it is this

-2 Crucible
-3 standstills
+1 Wrath of God

This will leave 4 slots open one or two of them need to become land as the land count is low at the moment, and the Crucibles help Facilitate that issue in most cases. so That leaves 2 slots open to a draw engine, 2 Fact or Fictions would be a possible slot but 2 'Draw spells' that cost 4 mana when on turn 4 you really want to not have your mana free to do other options make it a little more difficult. As it stands right now the Standstills are E tutorable and a different draw engine could be an issue. I have been messing with the AK/Intuition engine using Regrowth. The engine has been a house but you run into deck space issues when you try to finish it off. I would like to see other ideas on how to adjust this deck any out there ideas or contemporary Ideas will always be listened too.

[l_neiman]

Bob: do you think something like this is viable in a Goblins/LandStill metagame like the one from GenCon? I think so, but wanted to get your take on it.

Luis

[Raider Bob]

I think it is, the landstill matchup is rough, well the UW matchup is the UR matchup is a joke. Goblin on the other hand should generally be a by, this deck has always beat the goblin match-up even when it was oldschool food-chain goblins back in the day.

[Brushwagg]

I think it is, the landstill matchup is rough, well the UW
Doesn't that match-up come down to who has drawn more cards, meaning getting decked first?

[Raider Bob]

I think it is, the landstill matchup is rough, well the UW
Doesn't that match-up come down to who has drawn more cards, meaning getting decked first?
The match-up has come down to whom gets decked and I have used the Standstills as a weapon before, but generally a quick Charbelcher hitting the table is a lot more beneficial than trying to force draw your opponenet.

[StevenK]

Looks solid, is chrome mox/ mox diamond(can be good with cow) not an addition for t1 standstill, scepter or counterspell.. Why not play one nevinyrall disk instead of 1 wog with the tutors and why no sacred ground sb vs all the white stax decks...i think tormods crypt is a lousy sb card (ceph exeption) vs grow or lftl i'd play furnaces...

tested the deck sometimes and looks likes it works :)....if u were to splash green for explorations try academy ruins, intuition and lftl

[Nightmare]

Why... why did you necro this thread after almost 2 years without posts?