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View Full Version : [Deck] MoSH - (Darwin's Revenge)



TheInfamousBearAssassin
04-01-2005, 01:48 AM
Give me those sweet, sweet, tasty FNM AK's.

Decklist;

16x Forest

4x Wirewood Symbiote
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Fyndhorn Elves
4x Priest of Titania
1x Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
4x Wood Elves
4x Fierce Empath
4x Sylvan Messenger

4x Deranged Hermit

4x Food chain

1x Triskellion
1x Brass Herald
1x Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
2x Sundering Titan
1x Myojin of Night's Reach
1x Myojin of Infinite Rage


Sideboard:
1x Myojin of Cleansing Fire
1x Duplicant
1x Phantom Nishoba
1x Furnace Dragon
3x Sword of Fire and Ice
4x Naturalize
4x Call of the Herd


How the deck works;

Play Elves. Play out mana-Elves, accelerate into card advantage elves, use Symbiote to keep bouncing Wood Elves/Sylvan Messenger/Fierce Empath/Deranged Hermit, while producing mana by untapping Llanowars/Priests. Overwhelm them with numbers. If you get a Food Chain into play you should win.

Specifics; First turn Elves are really, really good. Most hands that don't involve all land, no land, or no spells with casting cost < 3 are keepable; although in some matchups you really have to dig for the Food Chain (usually against combo). Against Aggro you usually don't have to bother with it; it's overkill. You are faster than a lot of the combo in the format, though, sometimes even without a Food Chain. The ideal combo off of Food Chain usually involves casting both Myojin, leaving your opponent hopefully stranded (with Trisk to clean up whatever they might've dropped). Kamahl is the winner of games, smashing over chumpblockers and counteracting Wrath of God effects.

Matchups;

ATS: My record is 4-4 against this deck. Like most Survival decks, if you lose it's generally because two things happened;

a) They got a Survival into play, and

b) You didn't get a Food Chain on the board.

Of course, ATS runs tutors for a and counters for b, so it's not really favored like other Survival builds. Of the games I won, twice I comboed off and twice I got into fast fat beats with Titans and Trisk. You really really really want to play first against this deck.

It should be noted that the build I was playing against was using Masticore instead of Sharpshooter.

Eight games isn't enough to say for sure, but this matchup doesn't appear extremely favored either way, although it probably leans more towards being good for them.

Landstill: Extremely unfavorable. Counters, plus Swords, plus Disenchant, plus Wrath, plus Humility either in the side of main means you have to get extremely lucky or they have to be extremely unlucky for you to win. I would say 70-30 in their favor.

Enchantress: Most of my testing against Enchantress was done with older, pretty much worse builds, but then it was almost exactly 50-50. I would say it probably stays at least even, probably favored to you now pre-sideboard.

Goblins: Around 70-30 in your favor. Sligh doesn't have enough burn to deal with your creatures, none of the builds can usually get a Lackey through, and a Food Chain usually means you win. Deranged Hermit is nuts against Gobvantage in particular. Their only real power card is Sharpshooter. Avoid it by winning first, or get a Trisk into play, or just get too much fat for them to deal with by the time they get an active Sharpshooter going.

Nausea: Something like 48-52. Their Helm can often fuel your win. They also kill themselves a lot or fizzle out. A bit of a swingy matchup, if you're not going first, you want to mull down until you see the Chain if you can.

Solidarity: Their combo is slower, but they also have Force of Will. On the other hand, Force of Will hurts them a lot. If they have a good hand and you can't Chain off, you'll likely lose, and if you have the Chain and they can't force, you'll win. Often if they do Force you'll still win, because it hurts their speed quite a bit. I would say this is about 54-57% favorable.

Pox: Gets crushed hardcore. They don't have anywhere near the amount of creature hate they want. You can fuel out way too much mana, ignore Wastelands, and often empty hands before they can be discarded. They also have no answer to the Food Chain combo, and their kill is often too slow (also you can refill your hand too quickly for the Rack to really hurt). 70% in your favor.


The deck's greatest strength is the dual nature of it's strategies. If you remove the Food Chains the deck still can win games, which is what seperates it from most other combo in the format. While a Food Chain on the board usually gives you the game, the rest of the time it becomes a very decent aggressive card advantage and mana ramping elf deck capable of dropping large bombs turns 3-4. It's biggest weakness is the combo against control; they can usually save a Force for the first bomb and gain massive card advantage, and it's difficult to play around without the nuts draw. The best strategy against control is to side out the combo pieces for Swords, Calls, and often Naturalizes. Active Sharpshooters are also bad news, but most decks that play the card can't get it into play and active fast and reliably enough to make those matchups unfavorable.

Some notes;

Some people will point out this deck missed the contest deadline by two days. I have several counterpoints to this;

1)
Acceptable Entries:
1. The deck’s concept must be generally new and original. Something like Mosh (http://mtgthesource.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=849) (Elves and Food Chain) would be considered a fine entry

2) It's two days. Deal. The deadline was arbitrary.

3) This build differs from the original decklist by six total cards, and a complete sideboard.

4) At any rate, I, as a Moderator, will not abuse my status by editing other's posts, or at the very least I will put my new text in red so as to differentiate it from that original post's content and identify myself afterwards as most of the moderators do.

cheeseman
04-07-2005, 10:30 PM
Hmmm... Just a suggestion, but perhaps test it with Wirewood Logde? Untap effects are the beez kneez as far as I (or anyone) am concerned. :;):

System
04-08-2005, 08:40 AM
What about Quiron Rangers?:angry:

martyr
04-16-2005, 02:48 PM
I understand that the deck is going for speed, and consequently tries to slip the big creature under the counterwall in the early game, but what if you don't? I would play either Xantid Swarm or Cabal Therapy in the sb (or, in the case of Therapy, in the main), in order to deal with Force of Will and such.

Why 16x forests, and not some combination of Fetch Lands and forests, and/or Land Grant?

I really like this deck, and will be playing it this coming Saturday. Frickin Myojins, man!:blues:

TheInfamousBearAssassin
04-28-2005, 03:41 PM
The problem with all of those suggestions is that they have less synergy with the combo than any of the existing cards; Quirion Ranger is worse than Symbiote as it can't return and abuse Wood Elves, Sylvan Messenger, Deranged Hermit and Fierce Empath. Cabal Therapy in the main, besides requiring I expose myself to Wasteland, slows down my own winning, which needs to be fast. Myojin of Night's Reach is Cabal Therapy's mama.


Now, the suggestion on Fetchs/Land Grants is probably correct, I've just been too lazy to get about it and figuring out how much land exactly is needed. I probably won't use Land Grant, as I really dislike revealing my hand against Control with the matchup already being tough as it is, but eight fetches probably wouldn't be out of order.


Incidentally, I've changed my sb to;

2x Triskelion
3x Naturalize
3x Viridian Zealot
3x Sword of Fire and Ice
4x Ravenous Baloth (might be better as Call or Trolls, though?)


Incidentally, as I mentioned before, MoSH was a placeholder name until I came up with something that didn't suck. Any way a mod could change the name of the deck to Darwin's Revenge?

martyr
05-01-2005, 03:15 PM
I dunno, I kinda like MoSH. Call it what you will, O! Brilliant Deck Designer!

I don't think he was suggesting Ranger instead of Symbiote, but in complement to. Ranger would solve some of your problems with Wasteland, if you did add black.

Yes, Myojin of Night's Reach is huge and awesome. Problem is, he's huge and awesome...and expensive. You have to go off to get it to do anything at all in this deck. Cabal Therapy is an excellent way of clearing out that lone Swords to Plowshares that's holding your opponent's gameplan together.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
05-01-2005, 07:39 PM
Eh. The problem is that there are simply more cards that have synergy in the deck than there are free slots. This is the problem with Hivemaster, Sentinel, Ranger, Tangle Golem...

I suppose Ranger and Therapies could be fit in, cutting some fatties and Wood Elves for the room. I'd have to think some on how exactly to do it.

cartman34
05-01-2005, 07:50 PM
Why do you use Myojins instead of other fatties?

TheInfamousBearAssassin
05-01-2005, 08:13 PM
Power. The deck isn't a "win" combo, it's a lock-combo. Because it can't win with speed, it wants the lock to be solid as all Hell. The Myojin prevent your opponent from winning beore you can. Verdant Force or Plated Slagwurm or something similar would just be too slow to stop Solitaire, or Solidarity, or Nausea.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
05-29-2005, 03:42 PM
I think I'm nearing perfection on this decklist.


// Lands
9 [4E] Forest (3)
3 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [ON] Windswept Heath

// Creatures
4 [4E] Llanowar Elves
4 [IA] Fyndhorn Elves
3 [US] Priest of Titania
3 [UL] Deranged Hermit
4 [AP] Sylvan Messenger
4 [SC] Wirewood Symbiote
4 [8E] Wood Elves
3 [SC] Fierce Empath
1 [CHK] Myojin of Night's Reach
1 [DS] Sundering Titan
1 [ON] Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 [CHK] Myojin of Infinite Rage
2 [UD] Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
4 [UL] Multani's Acolyte
1 [AQ] Triskelion

// Spells
4 [MM] Food Chain

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 3 [ON] Naturalize
SB: 4 [OD] Call of the Herd
SB: 4 [MR] Troll Ascetic
SB: 1 [AQ] Triskelion


Explanation on card changes;

-1 Sundering Titan; As good as it is, I don't often want more than one. When I do, Red Myojin would do the same job.
-1 Brass Herald; See; Multani's Acolyte
-1 Deranged Hermit; While it's damn good, the fourth was always a bit of an indulgence because I had one slot free. Now I don't.
-7 Forests for Fetchlands; Land thinning.
-1 Priest, +1 Rofellos; Rofellos is just better. The only reason he's not 4 of is legendary status.
-1 Fierce Empath; See; Multani's Acolyte

+4 Multani's Acolyte; The deck desperately needs a way to dig for the combo. Acolyte isn't a tutor, but he goes through the deck, and gets nutty with Symbiote. He's also good in the combo itself, as you'll most often get another creature off of him. Also importantly, I was getting consistently shitty Sylvan Messengers, so I felt the need to up the overall number of Elves in the deck. I almost cut Kamahl, but his ability to swing the game in one turn in the secondary battle plan ultimately warrants his inclusion.

Sideboard Changes: Just tweaked to be a slightly better bad mid-range Green stompy deck past sideboard. Call and Troll both require different answers from Control, putting them in an overall bad situation. I do kind of miss the Baloths, though, as they were nuts against Aggro.

My Name Is Scott
05-29-2005, 05:35 PM
Is Kamahl that much better than Herald what with the fetches and the extra elves and what not? One would think with all the vial goblins running around some people are going to start siding in plauges, especially here in VA.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
07-21-2005, 11:40 PM
Note: After extensive testing....


Disregard the most recent list. Go with the first one. Multani's Acolyte I ended up hating; it ended up just being really bad unless I had a Symbiote or Food Chain to go with it. This makes it ironically terrible for a card whose purpose is supposedly to dig for Food Chain. I want the deck to work decently without Food Chain, and Multani's Acolyte is a hinderance to that.

Also, maybe I'm just terrible, but I found myself drawing both Rofellos way too often to justify a card that's only arguably better than Priest in the deck.

Lastly, Gro's been rising in popularity around here, and being able to fetch a second Titan is key to beating them.


I have adjusted the sideboard to include 4x Tangle Golem, which has been insanely useful as a beatdown creature against control that can be grabbed with Empath.

Zilla
08-14-2005, 08:18 PM
Moved to Open. IBA claims the decklist is optimized, and that the deck has placed well in several tournaments. He's almost certainly lying, but I'm too lazy to argue. -Zilla

Alfred
08-15-2005, 01:18 PM
Have you ever thought of using Llanowar Sentinel for this deck? With a lot of mana, you could ut all 4 of them into play, and actually make a crap load of mana afterwards.

Alvin6688
08-16-2005, 10:08 AM
What about Pattern of Rebirth? If you add enough sac effects, you only have to ramp up to 4 mana instead of 7-8 to cast a fatty. Cabal Therapy becomes even better.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
08-16-2005, 07:03 PM
Pattern of Rebirth, Food Chain, and at least Cabal Therapy. You're aware that


a) Food Chain isn't a sac effect? And

b) This deck wants to run Sylvan Messenger?


Regarding Sentinel; it actually has terrible synergy with Food Chain, as you can't use the Chain mana to go fetch the creature. And it wouldn't produce excess mana anyway. There's a free version from Nemesis, but it has the problem of sucking without Food Chain.

Bane of the Living
01-02-2006, 02:19 PM
my question is, why is would i run this deck over Aluren? it doesnt look at consistent then aluren, though i could be wrong

Bryant Cook
01-02-2006, 02:31 PM
my question is, why is would i run this deck over Aluren? it doesnt look at consistent then aluren, though i could be wrong
The real Question is, why are you even thinking about Aluren? I don't know much about combo elves but, I do know it's fairly consistant.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
01-04-2006, 04:50 PM
It's sad about the aura around this thread that prevented any intelligent discussion from taking place here.

Rastadon
01-05-2006, 03:00 PM
Sweet, an elf deck in the Open forum!

MoSH looks very vulnerable to any Wrath effect, and there's a good number of them running around. What's your plan vs mass removal? I'm trying out 4x Herald and 1x caller in my elf build. More to the point, what's Cleansing Fire doing in this thread? Isn't it a little suicidal?

Elves and Cradles were meant for eachother. Throwing 2 in wouldn't make you too Wasteland vulnerable.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
01-06-2006, 05:05 AM
Actually, I had quite a decent matchup against MWC, due to the fact that they have no way to deal with or race the combo, and they can still lose to the aggro plan.

Rastadon
01-11-2006, 11:10 PM
Okay, I can see that.

But what about the Cradles?! They're redonkulous, I'm telling you! Adding two wouldn't make you too vulnerable to Wastes, and you have so much to gain from it.

PunkRocker1134
01-23-2006, 08:22 PM
What about Living Wish. Thsi way you can run Deranged Hermit, Symbiote and other utility in the board. The only problem is it might take away the realy board. Jsut a though.
Agaisnt Gro what do you do? Hows the match? I run Gaea's Herald to combat counter based decks.
thoughts on those ideas?

BlindMage
03-12-2006, 12:21 AM
I'd really like to see Caller of the Claw in here, not to mention Wirewood Herald. This would give you another alternate win: if you had a Rofellos or Priest worth 3 mana or more, a symbiote, caller in hand (or in play), you could get infinite 2/2s if they killed an elf:

(supposing an elf has died earlier in the turn. Blocking, for instance.)

"EOT, tap Rofellos for 3. Play Caller. I get a 2/2. I'll return Caller with Symbiote to untap Rofellos. Rinse and repeat."

While this in obviously not terribly reliable on its own, have yet another route to victory is always good. Plus, if people know you can do it, it will affect the way that they play.

MasterBlaster
03-12-2006, 12:42 AM
@Blindmage- You could only use the symbiote once per turn.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
08-26-2007, 03:56 PM
Cthulhu F'taghn.


Because Zilla locked the other thread, I'm going to point out that the deck does not, in fact, have a terrible game against combo. It generally wins if it can combo off. Although it might be necessary to ditch Infinite Rage for Cleansing Fire to clear the board of 1/1 tokens... or Thunder Dragon, but that bitch is expensive. The game against combo is less than stellar, but very far from being horrible. Much better than, say, Angel Stompy.

Your mom is better at the combo matchup. - Zilla

Sanguine Voyeur
08-26-2007, 04:07 PM
Magma Giant is a notably non-Portal card that can clear the board.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
08-26-2007, 04:19 PM
Doesn't kill Mongoose, though.

Cleansing Fire is probably better since it can kill Goyfs.

insertnamehere
08-26-2007, 04:19 PM
Here are a couple of suggestions:
Skyshroud Poacher + Rishadan pawnshop = Lots of squirrels
Staff of Domination + Priest (producing 5 mana) =infinate Life,Cards and the Game.
Nantuko Vigilante kills e-plague which kills your deck.

Sanguine Voyeur
08-26-2007, 04:32 PM
There's also Reiver Demon, but Myojin is still probably better.

Nihil Credo
08-26-2007, 05:04 PM
Wee, scouring through the fattie list is fun!

Reiver Demon: close to White Myojin, except it leaves you with a 6/6 flier instead of a 4/6. Can be a replacement if you don't expect Nantuko Shades in your tournament. (Edit: must refresh more often)

Crater Hellion: A cheaper sweeper, in addition to being one of my favourite creatures ever. Unlikely to stick around or to kill Tarmogoyf, though.

Simic Sky Swallower: Several control decks just concede to this guy (Deed for how much?). He might be worth a sideboard slot. Can't be cast with a single Food Chain activation, but it doesn't seem a huge drawback with all the G sources in the deck.

Panglacial Wurm: If you have seven mana but not a Fierce Empath, this can be tutored with a fetchland/Land Grant. A 9/5 trampler is not that impressive, though.

Not a fattie, but...

Elf Replica: Richard Feldman's anti-Plague tech.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
08-26-2007, 05:18 PM
I was running Nullmage Shepard in the board, but that doesn't work as well with less than 3 Deranged Hermits.

I'm also currently moving Wirewood Symbiote to the board to make room for Llanowar Empath and to improve Sylvan Messenger's haul average.

Xero
08-26-2007, 08:48 PM
Would running 1/2x Wren's Run Packmaster after Llorwyn is realeased be a good idea? I understand that they don't help combo off, but with the mana this deck can produce, it would be easy to create several death-wolves. That seems like it would be especially good against decks with Tarmogoyf, since you would have a way to kill them.

Edit: And you can use it to recur Elves: Champion something (Empath/Messanger), sac Packmaster to Food Chain to reuse it.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
08-30-2007, 06:21 PM
The problem is that without fully comboing off, it just might be too difficult to get the Packmaster into play without RFGing the Sylvan Messenger. But I'd test it at least.