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John Cox
09-08-2013, 06:45 AM
I was playing around with plunge into darkness and realized that with angel's grace it worked like a worse Doomsday. I think its still good enough for modern though. The idea is to get angel's grace and plunge into darkness in your hand, then exile every card in your deck with plunge and get laboratory maniac. You win on your next draw step.
You can also win with a high life total should that be necessary by chaining plunges for children of korlis. children is really amazing if you use it twice after using plunge twice ( you gain like 40 life).


4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Godless Shrine
2 Watery Grave
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Street Wraith
4 Serum Visions
4 Muddle the Mixture
4 Duress
4 Plunge into Darkness
4 Laboratory Maniac
4 Angel's Grace
4 Children of Korlis
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Pentad Prism


This is all pretty rough, and I'm open to suggestions. I really just wanted to get this out there for people to try out and improve.
Some other things to try are research / development in place of lab maniac, and possibly Spoils of the vault as plunge 5-8 if you have maniac already in your hand.

Quasim0ff
09-08-2013, 07:55 AM
Creature removal is everywhere in modern, making labman a very unreliable win-con.

He is strongest in vintage, due to bolts and swords and decay being the only creature removal that's played.

Mr. Safety
09-08-2013, 12:00 PM
Creature removal is everywhere in modern, making labman a very unreliable win-con.

He is strongest in vintage, due to bolts and swords and decay being the only creature removal that's played.

Do it when they are tapped out (your pieces are instants) or get some free protection like Pact of Negation into the deck.

I like that you started with 4x Duress...I play that in my Ad Nauseam/Angel's Grace combo deck. I think this is a great alternative as a sideboard option in that deck. I can picture this as a 5-card alternative combo in that deck's sideboard (4x Plunge + 1x Lab Maniac) If nothing else, you have gotten me thinking for sure. Most folks take out their remo0val against that deck so sideboarding into it seems smart.

As a primary win condition, I tend to agree that the creature removal will be tough to fight. You will need to have Pact of Negation in hand to make it work, which means you kind of need a playset. I do think it's a great potential combo deck, and the fact that it's only 2 cards (and the right mana) means it can be good.

On a simialr note, why not utilize Ad Nauseam as well? Children of Korliss basically means you're 'building your own Griselbrand', which seems a fair bit good, for only 6 mana (or even land a CoK and wait to pop it off.) The instant speed of all of your pieces makes this have definate potential, because you can work around removal and countermagic with tight play. Squeezing in 1x Ad nauseam and 1x Conflagrate doesn't seem too hard.

I'll be lurking this thread for a while...

John Cox
09-08-2013, 12:43 PM
Creature removal is everywhere in modern, making labman a very unreliable win-con.

He is strongest in vintage, due to bolts and swords and decay being the only creature removal that's played.

That's an issue I have to concede to. One option is to use research / development and go for 1 emrakul, the aeons torn 1 through the breach and 2 shelldock isle; and then hit them twice with a spaghetti monster, this would take 2-3 turns and open you up to bolts to the dome.

-Also, I'm not sure if this works but could you hold priority when maniac enters the battlefield and cycle a street wraith to get around removal? I'm unclear on how cycling works in this scenario.

In the above R&D scenario with emrakul; if you had R&D in your opening hand you could plunge your deck away and get a children of korlis and then gain 40-50 life which would make going off with R&D safe. Similarly if you had a Children of Korlis in your hand you could go for a R&D and do the same. This is on the assumption that you had Angels Grace and Plunge into Darkness in your hand as well.

The Maniac kill is still fine against things like Tron and Splinter Twin that don't have a whole lot of removal. It may not be the best call though.

Quasim0ff
09-08-2013, 04:46 PM
The reason storm is such a good deck (/used to be, same with eggs) was that it basicly blanked alot of the opponents cards.

SirTylerGalt
09-08-2013, 05:13 PM
-Also, I'm not sure if this works but could you hold priority when maniac enters the battlefield and cycle a street wraith to get around removal? I'm unclear on how cycling works in this scenario.

I think people can respond to the cycling ability, since it goes on the stack.

You can use Chromatic Sphere instead, since your opponent can't respond to a mana ability.

John Cox
09-08-2013, 06:06 PM
I think people can respond to the cycling ability, since it goes on the stack.

You can use Chromatic Sphere instead, since your opponent can't respond to a mana ability.

OK that makes sense, I'll switch the street wraiths with spheres.

HammafistRoob
09-08-2013, 06:07 PM
You don't need to retain priority. When LabMan resolves, priority is yours until you make another action that uses the stack. You could then play Gitaxian Probe to attempt to win, if they try to remove LabMan in response you just cycle Street Wraith and win.

Looks like a solid idea, keep testing it and report back. Very intriguing concept.

JDK
09-08-2013, 07:38 PM
You cannot exile your whole deck with PiD unless you have a life total equal or higher than the amount of cards in your deck (even if you've cast Angel's Grace). You can only pay as much life, as you have.

What you are looking for is Spoils of the Vault, which doesn't require you to pay life, like PiD.

LSV recently wrote an article (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/1302) about a Death Shadow deck featuring both cards.

PunkRocker1134
09-08-2013, 08:12 PM
Another good protection spell to consider is Silence. That way they have to deal with silence and you winning that turn. You already run white, so adding a few more white cards shouldn't be too bad.

John Cox
09-08-2013, 08:52 PM
You cannot exile your whole deck with PiD unless you have a life total equal or higher than the amount of cards in your deck (even if you've cast Angel's Grace). You can only pay as much life, as you have.

What you are looking for is Spoils of the Vault, which doesn't require you to pay life, like PiD.

LSV recently wrote an article (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/1302) about a Death Shadow deck featuring both cards.

Deep down I knew that but it didn't click. That changes things a bit.


Another good protection spell to consider is Silence. That way they have to deal with silence and you winning that turn. You already run white, so adding a few more white cards shouldn't be too bad.

I have forgone silence because it's basically a worse angels grace, I'll try it though.

-I'll try a list like this,

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Godless Shrine
2 Watery Grave
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Street Wraith
4 chromatic sphere
4 Muddle the Mixture
4 silence
4 spoils of the vault
4 Laboratory Maniac
4 Angel's Grace
4 Children of Korlis
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Pentad Prism

Lord Seth
09-08-2013, 09:04 PM
You can add Phyrexian Unlife to it to give yourself more effective copies of Angel's Grace.

Though I do wonder if this is better than the Ad Nauseam Unlife combo (for those who don't know: The combo works by casting an Angel's Grace or getting a Phyrexian Unlife into play, casting Ad Nauseam, drawing your entire library, then exiling three Simian Spirit Guides to cast Conflagrate for 0, then flash it back and discard enough cards from your hand to kill your opponent). You can definitely win faster with this, but it's also open to a lot more disruption.

Technics
09-09-2013, 09:05 PM
This does not work. You have to PAY life, and you can only pay what you have, and can only draw 20 cards.


118.4. If a cost or effect allows a player to pay an amount of life greater than 0, the player may do so only if his or her life total is greater than or equal to the amount of the payment. If a player pays life, the payment is subtracted from his or her life total; in other words, the player loses that much life. (Players can always pay 0 life.)

John Cox
09-10-2013, 01:04 AM
This does not work. You have to PAY life, and you can only pay what you have, and can only draw 20 cards.


118.4. If a cost or effect allows a player to pay an amount of life greater than 0, the player may do so only if his or her life total is greater than or equal to the amount of the payment. If a player pays life, the payment is subtracted from his or her life total; in other words, the player loses that much life. (Players can always pay 0 life.)

That has been stated, were trying it with spoils of the vault now.