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Phoenix Ignition
10-08-2013, 03:59 AM
New GP results are in, here're the top 8 decklists (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpbri13/welcome#2)!

2 Junk
2 GR Tron
2 Affinity
1 Jund
1 4 color Birthing Pod

So the metagame settled down a bit. Interesting to see multiple Tron decks make it to a top 8, that hasn't happened in a while.

YamiJoey
10-08-2013, 10:38 AM
I heard that The Rock finds it difficult to beat a T3 Karn into a TX Emrakul. Also, Whiteless lists have a problem with Wurmcoils.

Surely now that we've had two T8's without a Blue deck we can unban Ponder, Preordane, Jace, and Visions. Right? RIGHT?

HammafistRoob
10-08-2013, 05:58 PM
Obviously not all of them, but Preordain would be fine. When I found out it was banned I was like wtf? Really?

YamiJoey
10-08-2013, 06:06 PM
Obviously not all of them, but Preordain would be fine. When I found out it was banned I was like wtf? Really?

I'm so pissed off at the ban. Maybe it's too powerful, but fuck knows until you try it. Don't just carpet ban all the good cantrips because Splinter Twin did well at your first tournament, Christ.

DragoFireheart
10-08-2013, 06:09 PM
Seeing more Tron decks does not surprise me. Decks that are good against Tron and relatively neutral to Jund/Rock will start to show up.

And I agree about unbanning some blue cards.

JDK
10-08-2013, 06:19 PM
Welcome to Splinter Twin, dear Drago.

How about you actually get to know the format?

YamiJoey
10-08-2013, 07:49 PM
Welcome to Splinter Twin, dear Drago.

How about you actually get to know the format?

Because this was totally called for and in no way rude.

The statement that decks that are good against Tron and aren't destroyed by Jund will make progress in the coming metagame isn't totally unreasonable. Okay, Twin fits this. I personally didn't know that, as I am not a Twin, nor a Tron player. I know its MU Vs Control, aggro, Pod, and Jund, and I feel that its poorly placed against Control, generally the same but worse than pod, and its Jund MU is less than 50% in my eyes. It seems like it Vs Tron would be an awkward MU, depending on how relevant your interaction is against their acceleration plan. Vs Ux Tron it seems like a nightmare. Against RG Tron, not so much.

Do you feel differently?

Lord Seth
10-09-2013, 12:57 AM
I'm so pissed off at the ban. Maybe it's too powerful, but fuck knows until you try it. Don't just carpet ban all the good cantrips because Splinter Twin did well at your first tournament, Christ.
Preordain would most likely be fine by itself. I think banning Ponder made sense, but banning both of them felt like an overreaction.


The statement that decks that are good against Tron and aren't destroyed by Jund will make progress in the coming metagame isn't totally unreasonable. Okay, Twin fits this. I personally didn't know that, as I am not a Twin, nor a Tron player. I know its MU Vs Control, aggro, Pod, and Jund, and I feel that its poorly placed against Control, generally the same but worse than pod, and its Jund MU is less than 50% in my eyes. It seems like it Vs Tron would be an awkward MU, depending on how relevant your interaction is against their acceleration plan. Vs Ux Tron it seems like a nightmare. Against RG Tron, not so much.
Splinter Twin vs GR Tron is weird. The way that match basically plays out is that GR Tron is heavily disadvantaged in game 1 (there's not much they can do to disrupt the combo unless either they get really lucky and get a quick Karn Liberated down or their opponent stumbles and gives them enough time to cast an Oblivion Stone), but for the second two games they're very likely to have a plethora of hate cards to board in (Nature's Claim and Spellskite are basically auto-includes, and you'll often see Torpor Orb, Combust, and/or Slaughter Games in addition to those), making the Tron player advantaged in Game 2 and 3.

dunk
10-09-2013, 11:32 AM
Twin is anything but well positioned now and that won't change soon, an unban of Preordain might help though. The deck ist just not consistant enough. Essentially you are trying to assemble a 6 card or more combo, which won't always work and often you get disrupted in between. You have to get super lucky not to lose to the triumphirate of Discard / Decay / Liliana and the aggro plan is rarely an option. Tron looks like it should be easy, but the problem is that Tron is way more redundant. While they will have the turn 3 Tron nearly every time, Twin does not always have it's combo by then... or if it does, they already got an O-Stone or Karn. And that's just for the case that there is no fucking turn 2 surprise Spellskite. To make things worse, they then board in like 10 additional cards... at some point I went as far as running Sowing Salt in my Sideboard, because I was pretty pissed of losing a "sweet" matchup.

The world was so much better when there was more UWR and Melira, which I'd love to play all day long.

firebadmattgood
10-09-2013, 01:08 PM
Welcome to Splinter Twin, dear Drago.

How about you actually get to know the format?

That is an absurdly rude thing to say, doubly so since it's completely inaccurate. The deck that relies on sticking a three drop and either an aura or a 1 toughness dude is going to do well against the deck that runs decay, bolt, 5+ discard spells and lilliana in the main? Please.

Lord Seth
10-09-2013, 04:52 PM
Twin is anything but well positioned now and that won't change soon, an unban of Preordain might help though. The deck ist just not consistant enough. Essentially you are trying to assemble a 6 card or more combo, which won't always work and often you get disrupted in between. You have to get super lucky not to lose to the triumphirate of Discard / Decay / Liliana and the aggro plan is rarely an option. Tron looks like it should be easy, but the problem is that Tron is way more redundant. While they will have the turn 3 Tron nearly every time, Twin does not always have it's combo by then... or if it does, they already got an O-Stone or Karn. And that's just for the case that there is no fucking turn 2 surprise Spellskite. To make things worse, they then board in like 10 additional cards... at some point I went as far as running Sowing Salt in my Sideboard, because I was pretty pissed of losing a "sweet" matchup.

The world was so much better when there was more UWR and Melira, which I'd love to play all day long.
That's not true at all. Assuming it encounters no disruption, GR Tron gets Urzatron online turn 3 about half of the time, a far cry from "nearly every time." Furthermore, just because it gets a copy of each Urza's land in play on turn 3 doesn't mean it can actually use it. Most of the time you do get the turn 3 Urzatron, some of your Urza's lands are tapped. For example, if the situation on turn 3 is you have a Chromatic Sphere and an Urza's Tower and Urza's Power Plant, you can sacrifice the sphere to cast a Sylvan Scrying, then put the Urza's Mine into play...but only the Mine can be tapped for mana that turn. When you do get a turn 3 Urzatron, that's usually the situation. Having every Urza's land in play on turn 3, all untapped, occurs approximately 20% of the time (again, assuming zero disruption).

And if the Splinter Twin player is playing Boomerang, it's even worse for Tron, because even if they get two Tron lands on turn 2, the Splinter Twin player can just Boomerang one to stall them an extra turn.

Splinter Twin is heavily advantaged Game 1, especially if they're playing Boomerang. The problem it has with GR Tron is the fact GR Tron can sideboard in so much hate that, even if the Splinter Twin player is able to go off through all of it, they'll have been slowed down so much that Tron likely has the time necessary to complete Tron and cast stuff like Karn or Oblivion Stone to shut off the combo.

JDK
10-09-2013, 06:08 PM
Twin is anything but well positioned now and that won't change soon, an unban of Preordain might help though. The deck ist just not consistant enough. Essentially you are trying to assemble a 6 card or more combo, which won't always work and often you get disrupted in between. You have to get super lucky not to lose to the triumphirate of Discard / Decay / Liliana and the aggro plan is rarely an option. Tron looks like it should be easy, but the problem is that Tron is way more redundant. While they will have the turn 3 Tron nearly every time, Twin does not always have it's combo by then... or if it does, they already got an O-Stone or Karn. And that's just for the case that there is no fucking turn 2 surprise Spellskite. To make things worse, they then board in like 10 additional cards... at some point I went as far as running Sowing Salt in my Sideboard, because I was pretty pissed of losing a "sweet" matchup.

The world was so much better when there was more UWR and Melira, which I'd love to play all day long.
Twin doesn't have a bad GBx MU and the Tron MU is favorable pre-board. The redundancy and control elements help significantly against GBx and the opponent has to "get super lucky" too, to get the "triumvirate" AND the aggro plan going. Twin is a solid choice, as you can see at the amount of decks that managed to get to day 2 at Detroit. No idea, why it suffered so many losses in the course of day 2 (Reid Duke was also wondering, as its GBx MU isn't bad). It still plays a noticeable role in the Modern metagame.


That is an absurdly rude thing to say, doubly so since it's completely inaccurate. The deck that relies on sticking a three drop and either an aura or a 1 toughness dude is going to do well against the deck that runs decay, bolt, 5+ discard spells and lilliana in the main? Please.
Are you even playing Modern? The deck has a shitload of redundancy in both combo parts (Pestermite/Exarch, Twin/Kiki-Jiki) as well as protection in form of counters ("Remand your Liliana" is a huge tempo play in the matchup), Spellskite and even Mizzium Skin. The creatures have flash, so Liliana isn't as threatening as you want her to be. You also have access to Blood Moon, Slagstorm and whatnot.

firebadmattgood
10-09-2013, 09:01 PM
Yes, clearly I was talking about Lilly's -2 and not the fact that her +1 fucks with your ability to simultaneously assemble and protect a combo while also putting a clock on you.

"Shitload of redundancy" means "6 of each piece" these days?

Remanding lilly is a huge tempo play? The deck is either a general tempo deck with shitty matchups against anything with lingering souls or goyf or it's a deck that can reliably assemble the combo. Pick one build, please.

Fucking slagstorm? Please post a list that's done well with that card. As for mizzium skin, that's a sideboard card played to shore up the G/B matchup that they otherwise have difficulty with.

JDK
10-09-2013, 10:17 PM
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11261&iddeck=82237

btw tempo play != tempo deck

It's rather tedious to lay out the breadcrumbs for you, so I will leave you to your view on Splinter Twin.

firebadmattgood
10-10-2013, 11:34 AM
tempo play == tempo deck when we're talking about a deck that does not run remand unless it's the tempo version of the deck that runs clique, bolt and snapcaster instead of 100% dig, protection and combo pieces.

At no point did you support your assertion so your smug satisfaction is unearned, but please feel free to enjoy it.