[MTGO] Vintage Masters set - POWER 9 [Archive]

(nameless one)

10-22-2013, 12:37 AM

Menendian is going to cream his pants!

He's been asking for this and its gonna happen!

Screw you smelly neckbeards, I'm playing online.

EDIT:

But honestly though, people I know who play Vintage don't usually have to time to go around and play Magic like Standard kids do every Tuesday and Friday nights. I think this is going to be nice though it still sucks not having the cards in real life.

Malakai

10-22-2013, 02:16 AM

Higgs

10-22-2013, 04:45 AM

Another question is, will there be any significant Legacy overlapping staples such as FoW?

Sure, it's nice to have a Vintage deck in a more accessible way, say as much as it costs for a paper Legacy deck, but I think the real differentiator will be the frequency of playable Vintage events.

alphastryk

10-22-2013, 09:04 AM

Kayradis

10-22-2013, 09:36 AM

Im gonna play Vintage on MTGO seems like!

keys

10-22-2013, 09:57 AM

Any idea how much packs of this "Master's style set" will cost? I've never played MTGO but drafting power does have a certain appeal to it...

Edit: Found my answers here: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/10212013/vintagemasters

alphastryk

10-22-2013, 10:11 AM

The linked article in the OP puts the price at $6.99

Kayradis

10-22-2013, 10:40 AM

I am really curious about the whole set list.
P9 are wicked, but increasing the amount of FoW and such in the MTGO card pool would also beneficiate Legacy

mishima_kazuya

10-22-2013, 11:11 AM

I am really curious about the whole set list.
P9 are wicked, but increasing the amount of FoW and such in the MTGO card pool would also beneficiate Legacy

This a lot.
Lion's Eye Diamond is at $165, Wastelands are at $80 and Force of Wills are at $100 on MTGO right now, so this would be a GREAT chance for Wizards to lower these prices and pump some life into the online Legacy community.

Higgs

10-22-2013, 11:17 AM

Malakai

10-22-2013, 12:00 PM

I think they pretty much HAVE to reprint FoW in order to have any sort of success, and that's exactly the kind of thing you would do if you wanted to get your Legacy players who are unfamiliar with vintage to try out a set designed for vintage.

Nickm

10-22-2013, 12:32 PM

Some questions:

How often do Legacy events fire on MODO?
Is it consistent across days of the week, and times of day?
How long after adding real support did this take to occur?
Now, how about the much less popular format of Vintage?

1.Legacy daily's are consistently firing at all time.
2. Yes, its a different mix of players based on the time of the daily.. Sometimes it mostly Euro or American players.
3. I don't l know what you mean by "real support"?
4. there currently is not Vintage on Mtgo, as there is now P9. There is however Classic which is like Vintage without power, it seems to rarely fire.

nedleeds

10-22-2013, 12:56 PM

I for one am not interested in buying sql server rows from Randy Bueller but if it spurs even a 100 people to try to pick up vintage then that's great. In reality I doubt it will do much to push real sanctioned vintage though. Perhaps proxy tourneys will see an uptick as players can give vintage a drive before coming out. This won't affect any "metagame" as the availability will be completely different IRL. The vast majority of IRL vintage players won't buy in for one reason or another (interface, already ave this stuff why pay, price of surrounding staples, etc.).

Another thing to keep in mind is that power is on it's own rarity sheet, meaning it's going to be super rare. Meaning the prices might creep north of $100 for a guid assigned to your account / mox. I think you are insane for even considering paying that much for a row in a database when a Bazaar costs $200.

rockout

10-22-2013, 01:11 PM

Start buying those cheap vintage staples now. This is going to be hella fun!

Phoenix Ignition

10-22-2013, 02:29 PM

Start buying those cheap vintage staples now. This is going to be hella fun!

New to Vintage (sort of), tell me what these are so I don't have to pay so much to get into it online!

Higgs

10-22-2013, 04:06 PM

Cheap Vintage staples are already cheap online and there is a very strong chance that they will be reprinted in the set again..

nedleeds

10-22-2013, 04:51 PM

Phoenix Ignition

10-22-2013, 05:09 PM

I personally would never remotely consider paying this for database rows. You can buy real, reserved list cards for this kind of outlay. Fetches and duals for $5-10, forces and other staples for $5-10 I think is fine, when your fake cards are 1/4-1/2 of real cards you really need to question what you are doing. Cockatrice works.

Hrm, those aren't exactly cheap staples. They probably would go up though, at least Underground Sea even if it is reprinted (dunno about the rest). I was hoping more for stuff like Swords to Plowshares is in Legacy. 5 dollar staples that are used pretty heavily.

Anyway, I don't get the anti-online card sentiment. If I want to play magic any time I choose to, online is the place to do it. Sure, it isn't something I can physically hold in my hand, but neither are many other things. The US dollar doesn't even have anything backing it other than people's trust in the government to not fuck it up. If I had the real card I couldn't play more than 2 times per month and that would require me to drive over an hour to do it. Factor in the gas savings to play in even 4 tournaments and I can buy a Force of Will with it.

cuthbertthecat

10-22-2013, 05:17 PM

Underground Sea - $40

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Underground+Sea+%5BME2%5D

Polluted Delta - $21

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Polluted+Delta+%5BONS%5D

Mana Drain - $26

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Mana+Drain+%5BME3%5D

Workshop - $28

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Mishra%27s+Workshop+%5BME4%5D

force of Will - $103

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Force+of+Will+%5BMED%5D

I personally would never remotely consider paying this for database rows. You can buy real, reserved list cards for this kind of outlay. Fetches and duals for $5-10, forces and other staples for $5-10 I think is fine, when your fake cards are 1/4-1/2 of real cards you really need to question what you are doing. Cockatrice works.

Considering that there is just about nowhere else to play vintage, you don't really have too many options. Also MTGO greatly improves your technical play because of how many games you get to play with your cards, so there's that. Also, the prize support on MTGO is pretty great, for dailies at least. Better than any 4-round tournament for $6 that I've ever seen, at least.

nedleeds

10-22-2013, 05:55 PM

Phoenix Ignition

10-22-2013, 06:06 PM

I guess ... you're just winning more database rows? I guess you could cash out and sell to bots. If there's really a critical underserved mass of people salivating to play Vintage online we aren't all of them playing on cockatrice? I agree because of rules enforcement it's a decent place to practice.

I too underestimated the importance of playing for money. Cockatrice will never be as good of practice because people will take shit decks they want to mess around with and waste your entire night trying out bad things. I got a skewed sense of what decks worked just because of playskill difference. Also, you get the random rules moron who thinks he's right but isn't.

You can still play for free on MTGO, the practice games. You'll get similar things, but at least you don't have to worry about rules idiots since that's all taken care of. The real thing is you get tournament level practice anywhere in the world.

Like I said, if I wanted to invest in cardboard and play in real life I'd still be driving 2 or 10 hours for tournaments usually. Gas ain't cheap, so I'm going to be spending a lot either way.

Also, yes, it's really damn easy to sell cards at 75% value. That's not a great percent, but you can cash out quickly and not worry about ebay scammers or mailing things. You can usually get 85+% if you take your time and find people willing to buy cards (especially higher priced ones).

Barook

10-22-2013, 06:36 PM

I too underestimated the importance of playing for money. Cockatrice will never be as good of practice because people will take shit decks they want to mess around with and waste your entire night trying out bad things. I got a skewed sense of what decks worked just because of playskill difference. Also, you get the random rules moron who thinks he's right but isn't.

You can still play for free on MTGO, the practice games. You'll get similar things, but at least you don't have to worry about rules idiots since that's all taken care of. The real thing is you get tournament level practice anywhere in the world.
This

MTGO is very competitive. Going back to Cockatrice from time to time to test some new stuff makes this painfully obvious. If you don't run into a Sourcer by chance, you're most likely up to an incompetent, rude asshole who doesn't even know basic interactions of the format.

Some questions:

How often do Legacy events fire on MODO?
Is it consistent across days of the week, and times of day?
How long after adding real support did this take to occur?
Now, how about the much less popular format of Vintage?

Legacy was pretty dead for a while due to a delay in the Mental Missstep ban online. After we started the project to revive Legacy, it's been pretty great - basically all Daily Events fire nowadays (which also led to a major price increase on many staples - be careful what you wish for).

Classic only fires once in a blue moon, probably because it's Vintage's retarded little cousin. That said, if the Vintage people try to organize themselves, I see no problems in getting Daily Events fire on a regular basis.

thecrav

10-22-2013, 06:55 PM

I for one am not interested in buying sql server rows from Randy Bueller
This is a problem with MTGO in general. For anyone who shares this opinion, the release means next to nothing.

but if it spurs even a 100 people to try to pick up vintage then that's great. In reality I doubt it will do much to push real sanctioned vintage though. Perhaps proxy tourneys will see an uptick as players can give vintage a drive before coming out. This won't affect any "metagame" as the availability will be completely different IRL. The vast majority of IRL vintage players won't buy in for one reason or another (interface, already ave this stuff why pay, price of surrounding staples, etc.).

I agree that if it brings more people to the format, it's fantastic. I'm curious why you think the metagame won't be affected. In my, although brief, experience with Vintage, it seems to move much slower than those formats that have frequent large events that people are reacting to. If Vintage gets its own daily, that's a fair-sized tournament every day of the week!

Another thing to keep in mind is that power is on it's own rarity sheet, meaning it's going to be super rare.

This is the real crux of it for me right now. The foil slot is either power or a foil and the exact distribution is yet to be announced. If I'm at a 10% chance to pull power, I'm a lot more likely to be interested than if I'm a 1% chance.

mishima_kazuya

10-22-2013, 07:01 PM

FWIW, I turned a summer of MTGO grinding (no multiqueing) into 3 paper LEDs and some extra spending money.

:smile:

aahz

10-22-2013, 07:06 PM

My general feeling about this is the same as nedleeds. Collecting the "cards" and building a collection of "cards" in the digital world is not the same as with real cards. Phoenix Ignition is right about some things though.

I might have a different view if I didn't already have a more or less complete Vintage collection IRL that I've spent a good chunk of the last two decades putting together. Why would I pay even a couple hundred dollars to build just one Vintage deck in MTGO when I can play anything IRL? It feels wrong to me, even if it would mean I could play more Vintage. My beef with Vintage on MTGO is the collection aspect of it. I don't want to build a collection from scratch, nor do I want to draft outside of Cube (and I wouldn't pay $ for each Cube draft either). I'd only be on MTGO to play Vintage Constructed.

There's also another issue that is a deal breaker: MTGO requires Windows (or Mac?). There is no Linux support (and most likely never will be). I only use Linux (it's the principle of the thing :really:). Sure, I can run a virtual machine, install a pirated copy of Windows, and run the MTGO software. But that seems like kind of a sketchy way to go, especially considering the additional investment to actually build a Vintage deck.

If I could pay a reasonable subscription fee that would let me play Vintage Constructed online, including access to any and all cards necessary, then I'd be all over it. If I have to "buy" each individual "card", I'll just continue to play IRL with my real collection.

nedleeds

10-22-2013, 07:59 PM

waste your entire night trying out bad things. I got a skewed sense of what decks worked just because of playskill difference. Also, you get the random rules moron who thinks he's right but isn't.

What about the guy who doesn't want to spend $400 on 4 guids for lease rights to 4 virtual MTGO Force of Wills? Doesn't he skew it the other way? At least on Cockatrice card availability isn't an issue.

mini1337s

10-22-2013, 08:17 PM

What about the guy who doesn't want to spend $400 on 4 guids for lease rights to 4 virtual MTGO Force of Wills? Doesn't he skew it the other way? At least on Cockatrice card availability isn't an issue.
I'd rather spend $1500 on real Power than digital copies. I don't think there is enough of a reason to buy into MODO Vintage unless they start having Vintage GPs lol

Phoenix Ignition

10-22-2013, 08:24 PM

Oh, I definitely understand the hesitation to start an MTGO collection when you already have the paper one. The MTGO client is also the worst gaming program I've ever used, and I can't believe it's from a game that has this many players. I just don't agree with the "digital objects therefore not spending money on them" (paraphrazing, I apologize) aspect of it.

What about the guy who doesn't want to spend $400 on 4 guids for lease rights to 4 virtual MTGO Force of Wills? Doesn't he skew it the other way? At least on Cockatrice card availability isn't an issue.
That's true, although online you might get a better feel for what you'd see in tournaments. There are always budget players in tournaments with card magic, too. Even so, get a few wins deep in a tournament and these players will be gone.

I'd rather spend $1500 on real Power than digital copies. I don't think there is enough of a reason to buy into MODO Vintage unless they start having Vintage GPs lol

If you have enough friends to constantly test with, you can always do this. But that's kind of like saying you can use proxies IRL and not spend any money, because you can always play with your friends. You won't be able to get the tournament experience of playing against decks you've never considered and players who may be better than your play group.

nedleeds

10-22-2013, 08:52 PM

Subscription would be sweet but then the existing player base on MTGO who have bought all teh rowz would shit blood. I'd happily pay $20 a month for a decent client, rules enforcement and matchmaking. Make entry to prize payout tourneys $5 or something and send me a fucking promo if I win ...

Mr.C

10-23-2013, 12:27 AM

Hrm, those aren't exactly cheap staples. They probably would go up though, at least Underground Sea even if it is reprinted (dunno about the rest). I was hoping more for stuff like Swords to Plowshares is in Legacy. 5 dollar staples that are used pretty heavily.

Anyway, I don't get the anti-online card sentiment. If I want to play magic any time I choose to, online is the place to do it. Sure, it isn't something I can physically hold in my hand, but neither are many other things. The US dollar doesn't even have anything backing it other than people's trust in the government to not fuck it up. If I had the real card I couldn't play more than 2 times per month and that would require me to drive over an hour to do it. Factor in the gas savings to play in even 4 tournaments and I can buy a Force of Will with it.

For the price of any online competitive deck, I can get way more virtual entertainment in the form of, well, any game right now.

Phoenix Ignition

10-23-2013, 01:32 AM

For the price of any online competitive deck, I can get way more virtual entertainment in the form of, well, any game right now.

The Magic bug bites hard.

yugular

10-23-2013, 02:40 AM

I'd rather spend $1500 on real Power than digital copies. I don't think there is enough of a reason to buy into MODO Vintage unless they start having Vintage GPs lol

I have to respectfully disagree. I have zero opportunities to play "real magic" let alone Legacy or Vintage, but in mtgo I can play those formats as much as my time allows whenever I have the time. For some people like me (two jobs, family, friends, no LGS, no local playgroup) mtgo is a great program.

apple713

10-23-2013, 06:00 AM

For some reason I highly doubt that we will get things like FoW, Wastelands etc. because there are so many other things to print in those slots. They'll most probably include Drains, Shops and Vault in the set and keep the current prices on those cards online.

vintage's card pool while it is the absolute largest of any format its also the smallest in terms of tournament diversity... there are not that many things to print in those slots. Duals, fetches, FOW, wasteland, and the restricted list.

FWIW, I turned a summer of MTGO grinding (no multiqueing) into 3 paper LEDs and some extra spending money.

:smile:

had you of gotten a job you could have bought a playset of duals...

Subscription would be sweet but then the existing player base on MTGO who have bought all teh rowz would shit blood. I'd happily pay $20 a month for a decent client, rules enforcement and matchmaking. Make entry to prize payout tourneys $5 or something and send me a fucking promo if I win ...

I Agree, i think WOTC needs to find another way to monetize MTGO. Currently i dont have any good ideas but subscriptions would work, millions of people pay 15$ a month for WOW, im sure the magic community would find that cost reasonable. Hell i spend 15$ in gas money driving it to LGS during the month.

I have to respectfully disagree. I have zero opportunities to play "real magic" let alone Legacy or Vintage, but in mtgo I can play those formats as much as my time allows whenever I have the time. For some people like me (two jobs, family, friends, no LGS, no local playgroup) mtgo is a great program.

so what your saying is that because you have no other options anything is better than nothing.... This doesnt mean that MTGO is a great program, it just means that it fills a void in your life.

Honestly I prefer cockatrice. The MTGO interface is so bad. If they built a better interface they wouldnt need to have live personal in all their rooms/channels.

Finn

10-23-2013, 08:36 AM

By Vintage stadards those are cheap.

Higgs

10-23-2013, 11:08 AM

I'd rather spend $1500 on real Power than digital copies.

See that's my dilemma. There's nothing like owning the actual thing and paying money for the binary representation of those cards really feels stupid in a way. I've always been against MODO and paying $$$ for virtual cards, and enjoyed owning a physical collection. But, it pains me to know that even if I spend $1500 on actual P9, unless I travel to big Vintage events I can't play Vintage competitively and maybe play it for more than a couple times each year. With MODO there's a chance that Vintage can become a mainstream, popular format with regular events so by not actually having the physical cards I can play the format regularly...

kingtk3

10-23-2013, 02:27 PM

Noone has considered the human aspect: apart the bluff factor, which you cannot represent in MODO (and which is an integral part in a magic game, especially in vintage), playing magic IRL is also a matter of aggregation.
You see people, talk with them, joke with them and maybe make new friends.

That said, I would like to play online from times to times but for a casual MODO player is not reasonable to spend all that money in binary strings: if only the cards online would cost less (as I feel would be right) I would surely be tempted.

rockout

10-23-2013, 02:59 PM

I'd rather spend $1500 on real Power than digital copies. I don't think there is enough of a reason to buy into MODO Vintage unless they start having Vintage GPs lol

It could be possible to have this at some point. It's online so that means basically everyone in the world can enter into a GP baring third world country status.

Lord Seth

10-23-2013, 04:33 PM

Functionally I don't see how a piece of cardboard is that much better than a "database row".

This is cool news though. It'd be pretty epic to get an Ancestral Recall for a Limited deck...

mishima_kazuya

10-23-2013, 06:28 PM

had you of gotten a job you could have bought a playset of duals...

In my defense, it was the summer between undergraduate and graduate school. So I decided to take the summer off and not worry about deadlines.

On another note, MODO is a great way to improve your game. Even by just grinding Standard events on MTGO, I found that I was playing better in Legacy events that I barely prepared for.

Linqed

10-29-2013, 08:48 AM

Underground Sea - $40

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Underground+Sea+%5BME2%5D

Polluted Delta - $21

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Polluted+Delta+%5BONS%5D

Mana Drain - $26

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Mana+Drain+%5BME3%5D

Workshop - $28

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Mishra%27s+Workshop+%5BME4%5D

force of Will - $103

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Force+of+Will+%5BMED%5D

I personally would never remotely consider paying this for database rows. You can buy real, reserved list cards for this kind of outlay. Fetches and duals for $5-10, forces and other staples for $5-10 I think is fine, when your fake cards are 1/4-1/2 of real cards you really need to question what you are doing. Cockatrice works.

Database rows, pieces of cardboard with a bit of ink on them, what's the difference? In the end, the value of these rows and pieces of cardboard is the one we're willing to pay for it. Paper cards are no more/less valuable than these pieces of data if you think about it.

I guess collectors are more attracted to physical objects, but if you want to play badly enough, MTGO is your best bet. There is no place to play that's so accessible and has such quality players most of the time. So that what it'll probably boil down to; do you want to play or do you want to sit on a pile of (very expensive) cardboard.

Let's be real, Vintage has no future IRL, it has on MTGO.

Higgs

05-15-2014, 09:10 AM

In light of the spoilers I think it's about time to necro this thread.

P9, FoW, Jace, all dual lands, Mana Drain, Workshop, Bazaar and it keeps coming. I'm quoting from theManaDrain and I fully concur:

This set is like every magic player's wet dream

So I guess the question is, is the new client bad enough to stop people from buying in?

Michael Keller

05-15-2014, 10:25 AM

Yeah, I don't know for certain if Vintage Masters will affect the pricing on real Power. It may slightly, but I mean come on - these cards are worth northwards of a grand a piece. It's not like Timmy can ask Mom for a thousand dollars to pick up a piece of power.

Higgs

05-15-2014, 10:34 AM

I meant buy-in to MODO.

Michael Keller

05-15-2014, 10:49 AM

I meant buy-in to MODO.

Oh yeah, I know. I'm just saying there's been a lot of speculation on Power's price rising because of V.M., but I still don't think it will affect it all that much.

Higgs

05-15-2014, 11:07 AM

I think it already did. I started my journey last year and was settling in for the long run. Then VM got announced and I said shit. Have been trying to complete my set since then as fast as I can and the prices seriously climbed up since last October. If 10 other people in the world went through the same thing probably we pushed the prices higher together.

Kemp

05-18-2014, 01:50 AM

I just hate the thought of getting power online and having those atrocities. So I put together a file of original arts to replace P9 new art in the .dat files. This is nothing special and anyone could do it and they could probably get the 1/16 inch of space between the top of the picture and the border to line up properly. I did this for other iconic cards such as Mana Crypt/Vault/Drain, Sol Ring, FoW etc. If anyone is interested drop me a PM and I'll e-mail the file to you.

nodahero

06-15-2014, 04:34 PM

Drafting UB storm in Vintage Masters. I got a Bargain, Desire and Disk for bombs plus a Tendrils, Fissure and a Freeze in addition to the usual storm suspects including Rits, Research, high tide and turn about.

mini1337s

09-29-2014, 03:28 PM

Underground Sea - $40

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Underground+Sea+%5BME2%5D

Polluted Delta - $21

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Polluted+Delta+%5BONS%5D

Mana Drain - $26

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Mana+Drain+%5BME3%5D

Workshop - $28

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Mishra%27s+Workshop+%5BME4%5D

force of Will - $103

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Force+of+Will+%5BMED%5D

I personally would never remotely consider paying this for database rows. You can buy real, reserved list cards for this kind of outlay. Fetches and duals for $5-10, forces and other staples for $5-10 I think is fine, when your fake cards are 1/4-1/2 of real cards you really need to question what you are doing. Cockatrice works.
Just to touch on this, a year out, here is what the price changes look like:

http://i.imgur.com/wexdK73.png

That said, there are still a lot of problems (just a few random cherry-picked examples):
Wasteland - $105-110
Tangle Wire - $40+ (FTV is cheaper but never available)
Griselbrand - $55-60
Misdirection - $95
Hurkyl's Recall - $55

Flashback drafts of Tempest aren't putting a dent in Wasteland. Some of these cards need aggressive reprints, like Khan's fetchlands.