[Deck] Food Chain Combo

[nevilshute]

Food Chain Combo - Currently being revised as of February 17th, 2015.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=19737&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=276504&type=card

(link to the old primer: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23711-Food-Chain-Combo)

I - What is the deck about?
II - Examples of decklists
III - How does the deck win?
IV - Key Cards
V - Utility creatures
VI - Protection
VII - Cantrips
VIII - Lands
IX - Less common Cards
X - Sideboarding
XI - Why Play This Deck?
XII - Matchups
XIII - Articles, videos etc.


I - What is the deck about?
The Food Chain deck is a midrange BUG deck, utilizing strong, grindy bug-cards such as Deathrite Shaman, Baleful Strix and Abrupt Decay, but with the possiblity of a combo finish. The combo revolves around resolving a Food Chain and a Misthollow Griffin. Once this is achieved the griffin is exiled with the Food Chain to generate five blue mana. Four of those five mana are used to recast the griffin from exile. This process is repeated an arbitrary large amount of times each time netting an extra mana and creating infinite mana of all colors - which can only be used to cast creatures. From here there are usually two ways to win. Either the 'half-combo' where "all" you are doing is casting 3-4 Misthollow Griffins which can then act as a vigilent, flying, unremovable army of 3/3, or the 'full combo' where you cast a big fatty to just end the game. This was once Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Many have since moved on to play Tidespout Tyrant as the winning fatty. Bouncing your opponent's entire board is usually just as effective as swinging with Emrakul. And being blue and CMC8 is a lot better than being non-blue CMC15.

The deck should not be viewed as a straight up combo deck as in that respect it isn't even remotely as consistent (or consistantly fast) as some of Legacy's other combo decks (like storm or sneak and show). Instead it should be viewed as a robust midrange deck that has it in its arsenal to just win on the spot, but which will often not do so but instead grind out victory. The Misthollow Griffins are actually also very effective at grinding. They can often be recycled for very good value out of the graveyard, either by getting eaten by your deathrite for life or being delved away to pay for a Dig Through Time. The fact that the griffins can't be hit by Abrupt Decay and that they usually make for a very, very unprofitable Swords to Plowshares target also enhance their value and help towards making up for the relative weakness of a 3/3 flier for 4 mana. We haven't even mentioned how good it feels to pitch one to a Force of Will or Misdirection.

II - Examples of decklists
Jeffrey Chen - SCG Premier IQ, February 15th, 2015 - First place finish http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=80067

4x Baleful Strix
1x Birds of Paradise
4x Deathrite Shaman
2x Genesis Hydra
4x Misthollow Griffin
1x Tidespout Tyrant
2x Vendilion Clique
4x Food Chain
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
2x Dig Through Time
1x Dimir Charm
4x Force of Will
1x Misdirection
3x Manipulate Fate
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Swamp
1x Bayou
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Polluted Delta
3x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Disfigure
2x Golgari Charm
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
3x Duress

Jonathan Job - SCG Open Los Angeles, March 23rd, 2014 - Fourth place finish http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=65228

4x Shardless Agent
1x Deathrite Shaman
4x Misthollow Griffin
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Tidespout Tyrant
2x Wall of Blossoms
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Venser, Shaper Savant
4x Food Chain
1x Sylvan Library
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
1x Misdirection
3x Manipulate Fate

3x Forest
4x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Scalding Tarn
4x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
3x Verdant Catacombs
1x Karakas

Sideboard:
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Null Rod
2x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Obstinate Baloth
1x Misdirection
4x Submerge

Martin Bosco - TLA - 2013 - Legacy - Jouernaut. First place finish out of 497 (27.10.2013) http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12104

1x Dryad Arbor
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2x Birds of Paradise
2x Mulldrifter
2x Progenitus
3x Misthollow Griffin
4x Fierce Empath
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Daze
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Manipulate Fate
4x Natural Order
4x Food Chain
2x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Forest
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Windswep Heath
4x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island

Sideboard:
3x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Relic of Progenitus
4x Show and Tell
1x Griselbrand
2x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2x Omniscience

Gottfried Sjödahl - Danish Legacy Masters 23.03.13 - 4th place finish out of 85 players http://mtgpulse.com/event/12649#177066

3x Misthollow Griffin
3x Fierce Empath
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Baleful Strix
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Brainstorm
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Force of Will
3x Manipulate Fate
4x Ponder
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Food Chain
1x Swamp
1x Island
2x Underground Sea
2x Bayou
3x Tropical Island
4x Polluted Delta
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Misty Rainforest

Sideboard:
2x Obstinate Baloth
3x Spell Pierce
3x Golgari Charm
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Misdirection
1x Duress
1x Cabal Therapy
3x Relic of Progenitus

III - How does the deck win?

Fighting Fair:
You have a decent shot at winning many of your matches simply by playing fair, grindy magic. Deathrite Shaman, Baleful Strix and Abrupt Decay are mighty good magic cards and if you get into a grindfest then Misthollow Griffin synergizes very well with Deathrite Shamans and give you a boon in grinding out a game (an example could be to repeatedly chump block a big Tarmogoyf and just keep eating your own griffin and replaying it). Manipulate Fate also works very well when trying to gain a foothold in a grindy game as it is effectively card advantage. The trick in this scenario is often to play like a control deck. Kill their relevant threats with Abrupt Decay, hold down the fort with Strix and attack their life total and graveyard with Deathrite Shaman. If you get to resolve a Manipulate Fate start thinking about shifting gears and going on the aggressive.

Half Combo:
If you have a Food Chain out as well as access to one or more of your griffins you get to go infinite a.k.a. you can now produce as much mana of any color as you want with the only caveat being that you can only use it to cast creatures. This means that your griffins now effectively have vigilance as you can attack with them and then, during your second main phase, you can exile them to Food Chain and recast them. It also means that any griffin is able to step in front of an attacker and block, and then, before damage, you can exile it to Food Chain to pseudo Fog them. Ideally you will have resolved a Manipulate Fate earlier during the game and have access to at least three griffins. A lot of the time, opponents will have a hard time dealing with this and you can steam roll them to victory.

The Combo Kill:
Calling it a kill might be a bit of a stretch as your opponent probably won’t die until your attack step during your next turn, but in a vast, vast majority of cases it will de facto mean victory. Like with the ‘Half Combo’ you have Food Chain out and access to one or more griffins granting you infinite mana. The difference is that you now also have access to your combo finisher. This card can be a variety of different bombs or creatures that tutor for them. In days past it was either Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, or a Fierce Empath that tutored him up. These days we use Tidespout Tyrant and/or Genesis Hydra to tutor him up.

The way it works with Hydra is: you make infinite mana. You cast Hydra for X = [the size of your library or more]. This way, as Hydra is cast, its trigger lets you reveal your library when you cast it and put into play one permanent with CMC X or less. You choose Tidespout Tyrant. Tyrant gets put into play (it isn’t cast, so it cannot be countered) and then Hydra resolves and is now X/X. Winning from here is usually arbitrary. You exile and replay your griffins each time bouncing one of your opponent’s permanents. Once done with that you can start bouncing your own Hydra and replay it to start putting in Baleful Strix and then bouncing those and replaying them, drawing as many cards as you feel like. Usually a scoop will have occurred by now.



IV - Key cards

Combo enablers:
Food Chain: Not much to be said about this card. The combo engine of the deck. It’s worth it to note that Pithing Needle naming Food Chain will do exactly nothing. Food Chain’s ability is a mana ability and therefore cannot be stopped by a Pithing Needle. Nor can it be Stifled or even responded to. Phyrexian Revoker can stop Food Chain as it stops mana abilities, so be aware of that sucker.
Misthollow Griffin: The other half of the infinite mana loop. A 3/3 flyer for UU2 is not something to write home about. They shine in two situations. 1 is to pitch to a Force of Will or a Misdirection (value town) and 2 is in conjunction with a resolved Food Chain. In both situations the griffins are worth their weight in gold. But if you are able to resolve a Manipulate Fate then just casting a Griffin every turn is not too shabby.
Tidespout Tyrant: When comboing off most often our win condition.



Tutors:
Genesis Hydra: For the most part a fantastic upgrade to Fierce Empath. Lets you "tutor" for Tyrant for the win and - more importantly - when without Food Chain can still be a very effective card that will do a pseudo Cascade and can put a Deathrite, Strix or Food Chain uncounterably into play while acting as a relavent threat by itself.
Manipulate Fate: Ah, the most efficient tutor in the deck and one of the most fun cards to resolve. Will nearly always be a “reader” as not very many people will have seen it before. In this deck it’s stupidly good. The card might as well read: U1, sorcery. Search your library for 3 cards named Misthollow Griffin and put them into your hand. Shuffle your library. Draw a card. Seeing as this is a bit of a rogue deck most opponents won’t know what this is for the first time they play you. I mean, reading the card, it just looks bad. The truth is that this is often what allows you to set up a win. If you already have one of your griffins in hand then go find 2 griffins and another copy of Fate. Once an opponent is wise to what you’re up to this card will have a big countermagic bulls eye on it so be mindful of that. But that can also work in your favor as it can be used to bait out countermagic when you already have a griffin in hand.



V - Utility creatures

Having a saturation of spells at both 2, 3 and 4CMC ramping mana is often where you want to be. Ideally you want creatures on the board already before resolving a Food Chain too. That means playing enough cheap creatures that actually matter. Examples of those:

Mana Dorks:
Deathrite Shaman: The jack of all trades when it comes to mana dorks. Ideally you want your dork to always be able to generate mana on turn 2 and as such an argument can be made for Noble Hierarch over DRS. But the versatility, ability to act as a win condition of his own and his synergy with a griffin in the yard (the only place we do NOT want our griffins to end up) make him quite exceptional.
Noble Hierarch/Birds of Paradise: Mana ramp is great and is an integral part of the deck as it allows us to power out a Food Chain on turn 2. The Exalted from Hierarch can often become relevant as well.


2cmc 'cycle' creatures:
Baleful Strix: A fantastic value creature. Pitches to Force of Will and Misdirection, replaces itself and trades with flipped Delvers and Tarmogoyf. The effectiveness of this guy usually is connected to how many Tarmogoyfs are being played in a current meta. The more Goyfs, the better Strix usually is. A very effective tool in prolonging games to the point where you start to gain control. Wall of Blossoms (RETIRED): We need a 2CMC creature to help our mana curve out and make comboing off with Food Chain more smooth. The wall is also great at blocking
Nimble Moongose and Mishra’s Factories all day long and cycles when he enters the battlefield. The advantage of this creature over Baleful Strix is that it is mono colored. Occasionally it is a problem to get a strix down using Food Chain as it can only create one color mana per activation. Coiling Oracle(RETIRED): Like Strix this pitches to force of will and has the added bonus of occasionally giving you a 2nd land drop in one turn. Downside is that you have to reveal the card drawn. Also 1/1 Vanilla is infinitely worse than 1/1 flying deathtouch in most situations.

Evoke creatures: (Mostly retired mechanic. While Evoke is very abusable if you have a Food Chain out, the creatures with Evoke are too weak without Food Chain. Playing them fills up your deck with clunky cards that situationally can be very strong, but will often be weak).

Evoke is a mechanic that has a very abuseable synergy with Food Chain. When you cast something for its evoke cost the "must sacrifice" clause in the Evoke cost is actually a triggered ability. This means you can respond to it by exiling the creature to the Food Chain. Now because Food Chain only cares about the converted mana cost of the creature, and the converted mana cost is always what is printed in the top right hand corner then you get to ramp mana from this interaction. As an example: pay UU1 to cast Aethersnipe for its evoke cost. With the evoke sacrifice clause on the stack, exile Aethersnipe for its converted mana cost 6+1 = 7 mana of any one color. Now both the evoke trigger and Aethersnipe's bounce trigger will try and resolve. Aethersnipe is no longer on the battlefield to be sacrificed so that ability fizzles. If what it targeted with the bounce effect is still a legal target upon resolution, the bounce will still happen, and you now have 7 mana in your pool. Pretty neat :smile:

Aethersnipe: The bounce effect will from time to time become your only main deck answer to some permanent based hate. An example of this is its relevance in game one against Death and Taxes as a Phyrexian Revoker colds our Food Chain. Is also a nice additional answer to Show and Tell and of course acts as a way to get our own Griselbrand into play without a Griffin (see above).
Mulldrifter: As with Aethersnipe, Mulldrifter is another way to exploit the synergy of Food Chain and Evoke. Some players (including myself) have moved away from playing this creature as it is really only a card when there is a Food Chain resolved. That being said, when that is the case it is awesome. It then nets us 3 mana of any one color and draws us 2 cards.

Others:
Shardless Agent: Some people have chosen to go all in on the midrange plan. This creature symbolizes that transition. If you play this, then you want enough value cards to cascade into. With it, you can make some sweet plays like cascading into a Manipulate Fate with Food Chain out and turn one Shardless Agent into three griffins plus drawing a card for your troubles. This card requires more build-around than most people care to consider and I'm not sure I favour it in this deck.
Vendilion Clique: Significantly improves our storm matchup to run a few of these. It's just an all round value creature that our mana base can support and I like running one to two.
Venser, Shaper Savant: A nice utility creature that can put some work in, in some odd situations, like saving our Food Chain (for a turn, at least) from an Abrupt Decay, to bouncing a land with an Infernal Tutor on the stack. Still, at 4cmc, and in relation to your main combo plan, you've got to ask yourself how often you're going to enjoy this guy sitting in your opening hand.



Warning: the rest of this primer has yet to be updated (February 17th, 2015).

VI - Protection

Counterspells:


Force of Will: this card is particularly relevant when playing with the Griffins as they can be pitched and still played later from exile. Pretty straight forward.
Misdirection: this will be meta dependant. It’s awesome to have 1-2 extra force of wills in counter wars, but Misdirection can also do a lot of work to re-direct an Abrupt Decay trying to pick off your Food Chain or a wayward Hymn to Tourach.
Daze: Can be used to protect the combo while going off on early turns. Quickly loses its relevance though.
Spell Pierce: stays relevant for longer but not as good on the combo turn as Daze unless you have waited an additional turn to leave up the U required. Would rarely see how both Pierce and Daze can be fit in so it will usually be one or the other if either at all.

Targeted discard:

Duress, Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozilek. They can all be relevant in different scenarios. Running discard should mainly be to pick off something like a Thalia or Revoker, or alternatively, an Abrupt Decay or to help fight faster combo decks. Some people prefer to have discard in the sideboard to bring in and then rely solely on countermagic to protect the combo game 1.



VII - Cantrips

Brainstorm: Not going to write an essay on why Brainstorm is awesome.

Whether or not you want to run Brainstorm's less beautiful cousins, Ponder or Preordain, will depend on how you decide to balance your deck between cantripping creatures and cantrip non-creature spells. This is actually a point of some contention. Most people recognize that the deck needs to run a critical number of creatures to opperate. As such and argument can be made for running cantripping creatures over cantripping instants and sorceries. Examples of these creatures are the aforementioned Mulldrifter and Court Hussar as well as Raven Familiar. The issue with these creatures are that they are quite mediocre up until you get a Food Chain resolved. Once that happens it quickly becomes value town. The problem with this is, that we want our cantrips to help find the Food Chain, not to be awesome once we've found it. I believe the proper way to go about it is to run some number of "elvish visionary" type creatures (2-drops that draw a card when entering the battlefield) along your mana dorks. As such we can meet our need for having enough creatures but should still have room for some non-creature cantrips.

VIII - Lands

This will greatly depend on your deck construction. For a combo deck this deck is hungry for mana and so don't get too overreliant on our mana dorks thinking that means we can skimp on land. I'd say we need to run at least 19 lands. 20 might be more correct. I'd argue that you should be working to include some basics in whichever list you end up with. Against wastelands you'll often need to be able to fetch out an island and a forest. The first to be able to cantrip and the latter to be able to put out mana dorks and eventually ensure you can produce the G for Food Chain.
Ancient Tomb: I personally like running at least two of these. Especially if you're running Natural Order as you will more often be able to combo on turn 2.

IX - Less common cards

Natural Order: Some people are having success with running a Natural Order package as a secondary combo plan to Food Chain. The upside is that you are able to attack your opponent from different angles and won’t get colded by an ill-timed Surgical Extraction or the likes. The downside is mostly the space it takes up in the deck. You typically sacrifice either cantrips or counterspells both of which are needed to enhance your Food Chain plan. You also need to up your green creature count. You are also likely to have to make consessions on your "plan B" as it is hard to fit in main deck grindy cards like Baleful Strix and Abrupt Decay when you have dedicate space for this combo. Makes the deck more explosive but worse at its midrange plan.
Lim-Dûl’s Vault: The main issue of the deck has always been to find a reliable way to tutor for Food Chain. Cards such as Intuition have been tried to limited success. Even a white splash for Enlightened Tutor. LDV seems like the best option if your mana base can support the black splash. I’d recommend running this as a one- or two of.
Show and Tell: Some decks run a transformational sideboard plan which seeks to transform the deck into a show and tell deck siding in more emrakuls and griselbrands.
Vela the Night-Clad: An alternative win con to Emrakul. Avoids combat so isn't bothered by cards like Ensaring Bridge. Also pitches to Force of Will and can be tutored up Empath. One problem, though, is that targeted creature removal will stop us from winning. Once she enters the battlefield they can respond to us casting our first Griffin by casting a Swords to Plowshares on her.
Drift of Phantasms: This is at times used as a one-of because of its versitility. It can tutor for Food Chain (albeit at sorcery speed and for UU1) as well as for Fierce Empath. It can, alternatively, also do quite a decent job at blocking. And if it does end up on the battlefield like that it can always be fed into the Food Chain for mana when you need to.
Shardless Agent: An argument can be made about running Agent as a way to strengthen our non-combo plan. Also, Agent into Manipulate Fate with a Food Chain on board will usually = three Griffins in play and infi mana. Playing this card or not will depend on how big of an emphasis you want to put on being a combo deck.


Retired cards

Maga, Traitor to Mortals: Used, predominately early on, as an alternative win con to Emrakul. Maga has pretty much been retired now. You can’t use the Empath to tutor for Maga and the win depends on an EtB trigger than can be stifled.



X - Sideboarding
How you sideboard with this deck will depend wholly on your strategy. Some people aim to run transformational sideboards. Either something like a Show and Tell package or alternatively a beatdown plan including Tarmogoyfs and Vendilion Cliques. In my opinion, all plans need to take into account our weak matchups which is primarily other combo decks. We need graveyard hate to fight dredge and reanimator and we need answers to storm combo decks as well.

Other than that we need a way to answer hatebears. Abrupt Decay is great at this and since our mana base is much stronger than many other combo decks (it needs to be as we are more mana hungry) we don't have to settle for bounce spells. Running sweeping effects such as Golgari Charm or Dread of Night is also a good way to go about hitting Death and Taxes and Maverick.

A template for a sideboard might look something like this:

4x Gravehate
2-4x Additional countermagic. Flusterstorm or Swan Song are strong
2-4x Abrupt Decay
2-3x Sweeper effects, Golgari Charm for instance.

Some other cards to consider would be:

Misdirection
Thoughtseize
Spellskite
Jace, the Mind Sculptor

XI - Why Play This Deck?

How does this deck compare to other (combo) decks?

So why play this deck? Well it's a lot of fun first of all. There are other faster and more consistent combo decks out there, but this does have some merits when compared to them:

No reliance on the graveyard: Unlike many other combo decks of the format we don't care one iota about graveyard hate (extraction effects on a discarded or countered Food Chain notwithstanding).

Combo unaffected by Gaddock Teeg: Okay mr T(eeg) stops Natural Order, but our main plan shits all over him seeing as our combo is mainly creature based and Food Chain is 3CMC.

Combo (largely) unaffected by Thalia: Getting a Food Chain on the battlefield at 4CMC can be tricky but otherwise your combo, much like with Teeg, doesn't care about the Tax that Thalia demands.

An Emrakul that doesn't care about Karakas: You hard cast Emrakul. It's the only way for you to get him into play. That means you get an extra turn. That means screw Karakas. If they bounce him, make another million mana with your griffins and re-cast him, get another extra turn and Bob's your sister :smile:

The ability to play a "normal" game of magic: Unlike nearly all other combo decks in legacy The Food Chain deck is able to actually cast spells that can fuel a non-combo win strategy. Guess what, Deathrite Shaman is a really good creature, Baleful Strix is a really good creature. In a weird way, Misthollow Griffin is even - in this deck - a really good creature. It flies, it is immune to two out of the format's three most played removal spells (Abrupt Decay and Swords to Plowshares) and the deck runs a tutor that for 2 mana tutors up all three of them and lets you cantrip (Manipulate Fate).

In practice this means, that where most combo decks get completely shut down by certain combo hosers, the Food Chain deck is able to deploy a secondary strategy that is quite solid. I like to run this deck like a midrange BUG deck with a strong combo element to it. That means running a full set of Deathrites as well as some Abrupt Decays in the main.

[nevilshute]

XII - Matchups

Death and Taxes - even-to-slightly-unfavourable
This matchup becomes a lot more managable if you are splashing black. What will kill you is if they get a clock on you (Stoneforge Mystic) AND are successful with their mana denial strategy (so fetch basics). As an added wild card in game 1, Phyrexian Revoker will also be a big problem for you as you now need to find your Aethersnipe to bounce it if you want to combo off. That being said we can still win before they get set up but I'd say we are probably the underdog game 1 against a skilled pilot although not by a huge margin.

After sideboarding they get to bring in Ethersworn Canonist but not much else. The canonist shuts you down in your tracks and will need an answer. Luckily we get to bring in Abrupt Decays and Golgari Charms which will often be enough to hose them. Dread of Night is also an option instead of the Golgari Charms but it doesn't deal with Revoker.

Try to be fast in game 1 as they will most likely win the long game. After sideboards you still have the possibility of a quick and dirty combo win, but you will probably end up taking up a more controling role. Get down your Food Chains even if they have a revoker naming it. Build up your hand and board and then, when everything is assembled, kill their hatebear(s) and win. This setup might involve creature combat and chump blocking but can often come out favorably for us.

*If you are running a NO package then you can sidestep the revoker issue in game 1. The problem will be to a) have a green creature survive for long enough to get NO'd and b) to get to 4 non-food chained mana.


Sneak and Show - around even
They are faster than us. They also have as much if not more countermagic to protect themselves. They do, however, run the risk of you holding something relevant for their Show and Tell such as your own Emrakul, Griselbrand or Aethersnipe. They also won't have a way to deal with a resolved Food Chain. They won't be bothering to counter your 1 and 2 CMC creatures so try and set up your board. This will most likely come down to a race to see who gets there first. This will usually be them and that's tough. Your counterspells (and targeted discard if you run it main) will be very valuable to you in this matchup.

You will have to bank on getting a little lucky and either go off before them, have enough counter to deal with their combo or have a "hate" piece in hand for their show and tell.

Natural Order seems quite weak here as Progenitus is just embarrassing when facing emrakul or griselbrand.

After sideboard be mindful of their Red blasts as they will be looking to counter your griffins. This is true against any red deck and something to be aware of. Normally your opponent will ALWAYS attempt to counter your Food Chain. If they let your Food Chain resolve you can normally be completely sure they won't be holding any countermagic that can target your griffin (disregarding corner cases with Daze). But here you might get to resolve your Food Chain only to have your one griffin red blasted and uselessly now in the yard.

After board, Golgari Charm can be a hedge against Sneak Attack. Other than that I'd advise bringing in more counterspells. Vendilion Clique is a great card in this matchup if you have them.




Omniclash
A lot of the same principles apply against Omniclash as against Sneak and Show. One major difference is that your spoiler cards in hand (Emrakul, Griselbrand) are by and large cold against them (Aethersnipe notwithstanding). They resolve show and tell and turn over Omniscience, your emrakul is not doing anything. Griselbrand might draw you into enough countermagic to counter their incoming Enter the Infinite but it's not for sure and if they are already holding countermagic it's going to be an uphill battle.

They are slower than Sneak and Show and do not have access to red blasts post board.


ANT/TES - unfavourable
One of our worst matchups. We go into this a pretty big underdog. This should be reflected in your sideboard where we need to be able to get in more tools to fight them. They are faster than us, more consistent and play proactive disruption in the form of targeted discard which can both target our combo pieces as well as our countermagic. That being said it's by no means an unwinnable matchup. Hope to get a hand both with force of will(s), a Deathrite Shaman as well as some cards that actually matter to your gameplan (Food Chain, Manipulate Fate etc). Then, also hope that your opponent hasn't gotten a discard heavy hand. In this matchup we need to hurry up and win. We need to be able to do this while having some countermagic to protect ourselves with.

After sideboard it does get better. I advise boarding in both targeted discard and more countermagic. Also, if you're running the NO package having access to Ruric Thar post board helps a lot. Be mindful of their Xantid Swarms when you stare into that beautiful counter heavy hand.

All in all a bad matchup.

*Update 26 May 2014: I've begun running 3 Meddling Mages in the sideboard to some success. The cost of this in my build currently has been to replace a Tropical Island with a Savannah. If you, like me, expect to face this weekly then I recommend this plan.


Delver Tempo - slightly-unfavourable (RUG, BUG UWR et al)
Depending on which tempo deck you meet this is a very swingey matchup. If they manage to do what a delver deck does and strangle our resources while dropping an early threat, our mana- and creature hungry plan will quickly become untenable. You need to play against the tempo deck like you would if you were playing with most other decks which means that you fetch basics and do so while playing around Stifle and Daze. You might also need to invest countermagic into protecting your early creature drops from their removal. This can be hazardous as you might need the countermagic to be able to go off through their countermagic.

A resolved Manipulate Fate can be very strong against them. 3/3 flyers blank their delver of secrets which is often their quickest threat. They also have no way to interact with a resolved Food Chain*. Your plan against these decks will be to play out your creatures while cantripping. You need to build up a mana base and some creatures and ideally win on the turn you resolve your Food Chain. The half-combo (Griffins + Food Chain but no Emrakul) will be enough 90 % of the time against them, but of course the full combo is better.

They typically don't run any hatebear type effects in their sideboard (caveat: UWR might side in Canonist and/or Meddling Mages). Only thing to really watch out for after boards is Krosan Grips in RUG-delver.

If they get the nuts (a flipped delver, countermagic and are able to stifle/wasteland/bolt your mana sources) prepare to lose. If you are able to sidestep this then the matchup improves a lot. The same logic prevails in at least 2 of the 3 varients (BUG and RUG) which is that they can't handle a lot on the board very well. So the more Baleful Strix and Deathrite Shaman you play, combined with resolving a Manipulate Fate and you can reach a point where they can't apply pressure any more. Main deck Abrupt Decays also goes some way to tip this towards us as they are quite thread-light decks and decaying a delver or goyf at the opportune moment can buy us quite a bit of time. The longer the game goes, the more favourable it becomes for us.

*The BUG variants have Abrupt Decay so they are exempt from this statement.


Elves - favourable
A favorable matchup. They will probably be a little faster than us at reaching their combo turn but that's not a given. During game 1 they will in all likelihood have zero ways of interacting with our combo whereas we have countermagic to interrupt them. Therefor be sure to counter their combo pieces (Natural Order if it kills you, like, count their creatures including how many are summoning sick, ask yourself 'do I die to a craterhoof right now?'; Glimpse of Nature most of the time, but be mindful of the board state and size of their hand as they might be bating). As long as you can keep them from comboing (which, of course, is not a given that you can) you will often be able to goldfish them as they don't mess with your plan.

Also, don't go for the NO plan yourself unless you have sufficient countermagic to protect yourself during the turns in takes for Progenitus to kill them. Your Progenitus won't be a match for their Craterhoof alpha swing for 40+.

After sideboards watch out for discard and Abrupt Decays. Some lists also run Qasali Pridemages so be mindful of those. Bring in Golgari Charms.


Shardless BUG
Prior to the printing of Abrupt Decay this was a fine matchup. But Abrupt Decay pushes it towards them being favourites. Their discard spells can be rough. Misdirections shine against Hymns and can be decisive. They don't have enough countermagic nor a particularly fast clock but you will need to dodge their discards. If you go for the NO plan (which is a fine option in this matchup) be mindful of Liliana, ie. leave up another creature to sack if at all possible. If you've been able to dodge their discard you still need to keep an eye out for Abrupt Decay. You often won't win from the first Food Chain you resolve. Targeted discard works quite well against them.

This matchup can often drag out long enough for a suspended Ancestral Vision to become relevant. Misdirection is a house against vision.


Esper Stoneblade (and Deathblade variants)
A matchup that can be troublesome depending on what build they're running. Playing against both countermagic and targeted discard is always a challenge. Generally I find the more controlling builds with Snapcaster Mages and Vendilion Cliques to be most challenging. The NO backup plan is good as they will often have no way of answering Progenitus and won't put you under enough early pressure to have a meaningful clock if you can resolve NO on turn three or four. The best you can hope for is for them to ignore you and focus on developing their own board. Ie, if they just stampede towards resolving a Jace or a turn four Batterskull. If they - which most skilled pilots will do - in stead focus on disrupting your hand and board with Thoughtseizes and Swords to Plowshares on your mana dorks etc and back that up with Snapcaster Mages for recursion then you're in for a bumpy ride. They'll resolve their big spell eventually.


Dredge
Depending on your setup you'll have access to Deathrite Shamans during game one but will still be the underdog. As most players will tell you, a single Deathrite Shaman will seldom be enough to hold back dredge. Hope to be faster than them which will pretty much only happen if they brick and/or you get the nuts. We need sideboard hate for this matchup. I like to always carry four pieces of targeted graveyard hate. I like to mix it up between extraction effects and stuff like Relic of Progenitus or Tormod's Crypt. Games 2 and 3 get much better although I never like facing this matchup.


UWx Miracles - slightly favourable
A fine matchup. They have pretty much no way of dealing with a resolved Food Chain pre-board. Watch out for Terminus on your attack with Emrakul. It is recommended that you resolve a Manipulate Fate and thus have all three griffins at the ready. In that case, simply exile them and play them again during your second main phase (if you have the mana of course). They typically won't be able to handle three griffins that are immune to removal. Counterbalance isn't great to stare down, but Food Chain being a 3CMC and the Griffins 4CMC mean we are much better suited to combo through a CB compared to combo decks with lots of 0, 1 and 2CMC spells. Still, I'd side in Abrupt Decays to handle the enchantment as they can still lock us out of the game.


Goblins - around even
Not as good a matchup as it would be for many other combo decks due to a few different things. As a combo deck we are often not fast enough. If they get to run out goblins at their desired rate then that alone can sometimes mean that they beat us to it. It tips in their favor if they can manage to port and/or waste us in the process. It might there for sound like a good idea if we can slow them down through Abrupt Decay and/or getting in the way of their Lackeys. And yes that is often a necessity. But if that means that we slow ourselves down too much in getting to combo off then it's a problem. Say if they lead with mountain, Lackey and all you can do on the draw is play forest into Noble Hierarch then you're in a bit of a bind. Do you get in the way of the lackey and set yourself back a turn on mana? This can be especially brutal if they drop down a port and tap you out. If you don't block (which is almost assuredly the correct play here) then you risk things getting out of hand quite rapidly on their next turn.

That being said I would still consider this to be a quite winnable matchup. Maybe around 50/50. Just watch out for their wastelands and ports. Don't keep greedy one-lander hands, especially if that land is a dual. If they open on Lackey then Force of Will it unless you are able to resolve a (profitable) blocker before it can connect ie. Wall of Blossoms or Deathrite Shaman preferably (be aware of Gempalm Incinerator when it comes to blocking Lackey, especially if your blocker is a 1-toughness dude like a Baleful Strix). After sideboarding expect them to bring in Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist. I'd side in some Abrupt Decays for this (unless you already run them in the main of course). The decays can also be used in a pinch to prolong the game a turn or two by sniping a Goblin Piledriver or a lackey at the right time.


Merfolk - unfavourable
This is a poor matchup, make no mistake. We play islands so all of their dudes are unblockable. Their dudes also represent a quick clock. They play wastelands to hamper our mana and they play enough countermagic to pose big problems for us resolving our combo pieces. Some of them also play the nastiest sideboard card ever in Llawan, Cephalid Empress. If they ever resolve her your only shot will be to resolve a Natural Order IF you're even running NO. She dodges Abrupt Decays and all relevant sweepers we might run.

The plan against this deck is to ignore their board development and develop your own board with 1cmc and 2cmc creatures. Then try and resolve a combo win through their countermagic. This usually means having some countermagic of your own and/or targeted discard.


Maverick
A decent but potentially troublesome matchup. They aim to strain our mana by wastelanding us and landing a Thalia so fetch basics and hope you have more mana dorks than they have Swords to Plowshares. If you get a Food Chain resolved but need more time to set up the win then be sure to counter any Green Sun's Zenith where X is more than 1. Otherwise expect them to fetch up a Qasali Pridemage to do the nasty on your Food Chain. After sideboarding they'll have Ethersworn Canonist and, depending on the build, might also have a black splash for some thoughtseizes and the likes. Bring in Abrupt Decays for the Canonists. Also, board sweepers like Golgari Charm are also good here. If you plan to win through resolving a Fierce Empath to tutor up emrakul then be mindful of them having access to W2 as they might be slowboating an Aven Mindcensor.


UB Tezzeret - favourable
Most of the time a good matchup. Their trademark chalice@1 play on turn 1 is not anywhere near as crippling for us as for a lot of other decks. It's bad if you've kept a hand of Deathrite Shaman and 2x Brainstorm but otherwise you should be able to get past it easily. They'll never make Chalice@2 and you should be able to set up shop and win before they make a Chalice@3. They play precious little countermagic, usually just 4x Force of Will. After board watch out for targeted discard. They might also bring in Lodestone Golem although, like Thalia, it won't really dent your combo.


MUD - favourable
Their game plan will be to either try to lock you out by playing a Sol land and dropping a Chalice@1 or a Grim Monolith into a Trinisphere, or by comboing off quickly with Metalworker and Lightning Greaves - or a combination of both. Depending on how cantrip heavy your build is this is a favorable matchup. Which is to say, much like against Tezzerator, the more 1CMC spells your deck relies on to win the more vulberable it will be to a Chalice@1. Their Chalice @1 or trinisphere plays have no impact on our combo at all as every piece is either 3CMC, 4CMC or EmrakulCMC :wink:. If you've kept a hand with little or no counter magic there's always a risk of them comboing off quicker than you with Kuldotha Forgemaster, but all in all your combo is more consistent than theirs and they have few meaningful ways of interacting with you seeing how Chalice, Trinisphere and Loadstone Golem all fail to really cripple you. That doesn't mean you can't lose to all those cards, mind you.


XIII - Articles, videos etc.
Really good introduction article by Tyler Tyssedal:
http://www.quietspeculation.com/2012/07/legacy-griffins-food-chain-manipulate-fate-and-fun/

Avacyn Restored legacy preview by Drew Levin has a section devoted to (an admittedly very early) version of the deck:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/24034_Combo_Winter_Is_Coming_The_Avacyn_Restored_Legacy_Review.html

Video of Jonathan Job, SCGLA, March 2014, round 4 of 9. Vs Punishing Maverick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkSmCRxHlzg&list=PL5d1KNNFArSM976G3_alGaeG0NgOKuvVD

Video of Jonathan Job, SCGLA, March 2014, round 9 of 9. Vs BUG Delver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2th72da-UxI&list=PL5d1KNNFArSM976G3_alGaeG0NgOKuvVD

Deck Tech with Jonathan Job, SCGLA, March 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVo2O2K_dUE

Video of Tyler Tyssedal, SCGMIN, September 2012, round 3 of 9. Vs RUG Delver: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/120902_minneapolis.html

Deck Tech with Tyler Tyssedal, SCGMIN, September 2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6WuzCtn434

[kingtk3]

Very good job nevilshute and thanks for your hard work!

The only advice I give is to group the list by role of the cards, I.E. accelerants, protection, enablers and so on. It would make the lists more readable and makes easy to understand for neophities how the deck functions (I hate when the lists are grouped by creatures/instants/... since it doesn't explain well the decks...).

GOOD JOB!!!

[Umbranex]

Very good primer IMO. It was really easy to read and gave a good listing of how the interactions worked and the different matchups. I really like this deck idea and have been slowly picking up some of the pieces Im missing for it over the past six months or so. I absolutely cannot wait to try out a version of this deck!

Keep up the good work this deck looks like a ton of fun! :laugh:

[nevilshute]

Thanks Umbranex :) I hope you enjoy playing the deck. Please post your own experiences in this thread if you feel like it! :smile:

[Umbranex]

I will of course! It will probably be few and far between though as there is basically no legacy around me :cry:

I am in the process of trying to get an MTGO account to play legacy events on but that is slow going as I dont have much disposable income atm... but I will definitely watch the thread and chime in with any suggestions I may have!

[cb4]

The only card I play that isn't mentioned in the primer is drift of phantasms. It is tutors for food chain and fierce empath, and can be pitched to force. It is just a one of in my list, but I is almost never dead. Because it is a creature, you can use it as a solid blocker and can sac it to chain for mana. You cannot use food chain mana to transmute it though.

4 noble hierarch
3 deathrite shaman
3 fierce empath
1 drift of phantasms
4 misthollow griffins
4 mulldrifters
1 aethersnipe
1 griselbrand
1 emrakul

4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 force of will
2 misdirection
2 manipulate fate
4 food chain

2 island
2 forest
2 ancient tomb
4 tropical island
4 misty rainforest
4 verdant catacombs

Sideboard is...
3 pithing needle
3 spell pierce
4 surgical extraction
2 krosan grip
3 spellskite

[nevilshute]

Heya cb4, sorry for the slow reply. Been busy! I will add Drift of Phantasms as one of the possible utility cards. I've actually never played with it myself as I'm not a big fan of the transmute mechanic's sorcery speed. But I like it in principle, in that it can be used to find both Food Chain and Fierce Empath.

[Obould]

Hi, I played yesterday with my food chain deck in a GPTrial Paris Legacy-event in a local store. 21 players showed up and we played 5 rounds of swiss and top8. I went 3-1-1 with the following list and was 3rd after the swiss and made myself to the tops.

Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Forest
2 Island

Creatures
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Fierce Empath
1 AEthersnipe
1 Griselbrand
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Progenitus
2 Birds of Paradise

Spells
4 Food Chain
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Misdirection
4 Natural Order
3 Manipulate Fate

Sideboard
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Spell Pierce
1 Wipe Away
4 Show and Tell
2 Omniscience
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Relic of Progenitus

R1 vs. BUGstill 2-1
R2 vs. Affinity 2-1
R3 vs. UR-delver 1-2
R4 vs UWR-delver 2-1
R5 vs. BUG id (played for fun and I won 3-0)

Top8 R1 vs. another UR-delver 0-2

[nevilshute]

Heya Obould. That looks like a solid list, and grats on your result :)

Can I ask how the Show and Tell sideboard was to play? I've been planning to give it a try but haven't been able to yet. Against what did you bring it in and how was it?


Hi, I played yesterday with my food chain deck in a GPTrial Paris Legacy-event in a local store. 21 players showed up and we played 5 rounds of swiss and top8. I went 3-1-1 with the following list and was 3rd after the swiss and made myself to the tops.

Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Forest
2 Island

Creatures
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Fierce Empath
1 AEthersnipe
1 Griselbrand
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Progenitus
2 Birds of Paradise

Spells
4 Food Chain
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Misdirection
4 Natural Order
3 Manipulate Fate

Sideboard
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Spell Pierce
1 Wipe Away
4 Show and Tell
2 Omniscience
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Relic of Progenitus

R1 vs. BUGstill 2-1
R2 vs. Affinity 2-1
R3 vs. UR-delver 1-2
R4 vs UWR-delver 2-1
R5 vs. BUG id (played for fun and I won 3-0)

Top8 R1 vs. another UR-delver 0-2

[Obould]

I bring it in against every deck to get a surprise factor. Against BUGstill I lost first game when trying to get food chain online but lost the counter war. Game 2&3 I sided the food chain out because of abrupt decays and surprise. Game 2 I won with early progenitus and game 3 with turn 3 omniscience to emrakul. Against affinity I got the food chain online and managed to get griselbrand, but it wasn't enough. Game 2 and 3 I sided natural order package + misdirections and something out, because progenitus is too slow. Game 2 I won with food chain to emrakul and game 3 turn 2 show and tell to emrakul. Against UR-delver the food chain is too hard to get online because it needs more combo-pieces and UR has a lot of counters. I managed to get natural order through counters once and got angel for the win (in top8 I kept 2 land hands, but didn't drew more lands and managuys got bolted when they hit the table). Against UWR I won first game with food chain to emrakul in turn 4 or 5. Flooded second game and game 3 won with omniscience to empath to emrakul turn 3 (A sidenote, he bring medling mages in and named food chain :D). Against BUG (that we id) I won first game with food chain, second game with natural order to progenitus (sided food chain out) and third game with show and tell to emrakul with 1 or 2 other guys on table).

[DragoFireheart]

I like this deck, but I feel like it's... not optimized.

As in, something hasn't been done yet that could be done to make it significantly better. And I'm not talking about color splashing. Hmmm...


SUGGESTION 1:

How about adding Tarmogoyf to our beatdown plan?


1 AEthersnipe
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Fierce Empath
1 Griselbrand
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Manipulate Fate
4 Misdirection
4 Food Chain
2 Forest
4 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea

Sideboard
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Griselbrand
4 Show and Tell
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Omniscience
3 Relic of Progenitus



SUGGESTION 2: nvm, can't cast with Food Chain.

[Obould]

I like this deck, but I feel like it's... not optimized.


SUGGESTION 2: Did you ever consider Green Sun's Zenith? If you have the Griffin and Food Chain but no big creature in hand, you can make a bunch of mana and cast GSZ to get a Progenitus or something. Also lets you fetch a Fierce Empath.

You can only cast creatures with the mana from food chain.

As for your suggestion 1, I have tried food chain with beatdown plan with 3 tarmogoyfs and 4 deathrite shamans main. It was ok but I have liked natural order package more.

[DragoFireheart]

You can only cast creatures with the mana from food chain.

As for your suggestion 1, I have tried food chain with beatdown plan with 3 tarmogoyfs and 4 deathrite shamans main. It was ok but I have liked natural order package more.

Why not try and just shove NOPro, Show and Tell, and Food Griffin all in? Make it so that every spell is a must counter/kill or be killed. This gives you three different ways to drop a giant monster onto the battlefield.

- They have to remove any of your green creatures or risk a NO.
- They must counter the Empaths or risk you getting a creature in hand for Show and Tell.
- They almost certainly have to counter Show and Tell. They have to nuke your Food Chain or risk you getting mana to cast your creature.
- And if all of that fails, you can beat face with Griffins.

Note: I prefer 2 Misdirection to 2 Daze since you can redirect their counters to the Misd. or deal with Abrupt Decays targeting your stuff.


3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Fierce Empath
1 Griselbrand
3 Misthollow Griffin
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Progenitus
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Manipulate Fate
2 Misdirection
4 Natural Order
4 Show and Tell
4 Food Chain
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
4 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs


Conditioning my opponent to counter or kill Fierce Empath is pretty amusing.

[Holmen]

I'm currently brewing this deck.
First of all - sorry if I'm missing something in the discussion or is off topic (new to this forum).

MAIN:
3 Baleful Strix
1 Aethersnipe
3 Misthollow Griffin
3 Fierce Empath
2 Manipulate Fate
1 Intuition
4 Brainstorm
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Force of Will
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Wall of Roots
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Griselbrand
4 Food Chain

4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Flooded Strand
1 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Tundra

SB:
2 Viridian Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Swan Song
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Force of Will
2 Dread of Night
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Tidespout Tyrant

The deck doesn't need a 3rd game plan, I've won games just by wrecking my opponent with strix (super important over WoB etc because FOW) + therapy and with just griffins swinging.
The deck can easily play out like a slower BUG-control, but also got hands that combo out T2 (rarely) and more often T3.

Board is mostly against other faster combo, lands, reanimate, DnT, but for me the deck has not cared much for other decks except combo.
It easily breaks a lot of decks, since it doesn't care about most hate bears, is hard to play against, wins in multiple ways (opponent who boards in FC-hate gets punished) and the board fits really smooth into the main deck without losing the game plan.

Matches so far (local tournament)
1-2 Naya Hatebears
2-0 Infect
2-1 TES
2-0 UW Standstill
2-0 RUB Planeswalker
2-0 Stoneblade
2-0 Belcher
2-0 Dragonstompy
1-2 Maverick
2-0 Meat Hooks
2-1 Merfolk (TNN)
2-0 Enchantress

Maindeck is pretty solid, unsure about the board with the 2 Dread of Nights. The only games I've lost are against decks that run hate bears – which should be my best matchup. (done some play mistakes also)
Think I need something for them, thinking about Bone Shredder…

The TES matchup is getting better, they have a really hard time after board and often problem before with our suit of removal, hand-disrupt and FoW. Won many games when they go for the goblin-plan, since Food Chain often combos out one turn after the storm-decks.

Just some thoughts!

[grokh]

Hi, I played yesterday with my food chain deck in a GPTrial Paris Legacy-event in a local store. 21 players showed up and we played 5 rounds of swiss and top8. I went 3-1-1 with the following list and was 3rd after the swiss and made myself to the tops.

Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Forest
2 Island

Creatures
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Fierce Empath
1 AEthersnipe
1 Griselbrand
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Progenitus
2 Birds of Paradise

Spells
4 Food Chain
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Misdirection
4 Natural Order
3 Manipulate Fate

Sideboard
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Spell Pierce
1 Wipe Away
4 Show and Tell
2 Omniscience
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Relic of Progenitus

R1 vs. BUGstill 2-1
R2 vs. Affinity 2-1
R3 vs. UR-delver 1-2
R4 vs UWR-delver 2-1
R5 vs. BUG id (played for fun and I won 3-0)

Top8 R1 vs. another UR-delver 0-2

Hi Obould,

Have you tried Wall of blossoms in your list ?

Cos
- it's a 0/4 Defender, so it can give you lots of time vs aggro
- it gives you a card when entering
- it's a sac-target for Natural order

After testing with your list with a friend, we wondered if it couldn't have a place in !

Thanx

Grokh

[grokh]

My Food chain altered in Winter mode was refused by a Head judge on a BIG event, so i asked the alterator to do it again but with not so much snow, here's the new Food chain Winter :

http://www.coupdpinceau.com/images/site/morgege_art_mtg/Chaine%20alimentaire%20-%20Food%20Chain%20(winter).jpg

[nevilshute]

So absoloutely gorgeous mate! Could you post a picture of all four?

[Obould]

Hi,

I have tested wall of blossoms without natural order but with beatdown plan b mainboard. It is ok but it doesn't make the deck faster or protect the combo. It also doesn't block delver. I think wall of roots would be better to get around daze or spell pierce, but also blocks guides and other in the same way as wall of blossoms. I might test two wall of roots in place of deathrite shamans, because shaman is the most unreliable manasource of the managuys (if opponent plays shaman or no fetches in graveyard). Also there haven't been too many graveyard based decks in the meta right now.

ps. I have started to foil my deck and now I have empaths, food chains, manipulate fates, bops, griffins, emrakuls (only prele for now) and one natural order in foil :)

[grokh]

Hi,

As you asked here are my 4 Seasons Food chain alters :

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/182943numrisation0001.jpg

If some of you are in Grand Prix Paris this week-end, you'l be able to see it for real !

[JPoJohnson]

My Food chain altered in Winter mode was refused by a Head judge on a BIG event, so i asked the alterator to do it again but with not so much snow, here's the new Food chain Winter :

http://www.coupdpinceau.com/images/site/morgege_art_mtg/Chaine%20alimentaire%20-%20Food%20Chain%20(winter).jpg

Did he say why it was refused? That's kinda odd that a bit of snow would be the reason!

[grokh]

Hi,

As you asked here are my 4 Seasons Food chain alters :

http://www.coupdpinceau.com/images/site/morgege_art_mtg/Chaine%20alimentaire%20-%20Food%20Chain%20Playset.jpg



This is the Food chain on bottom right of this pic which was refused, not the new one !

[JPoJohnson]

Bizarre. Hmm, glad you were able to replace it so quickly with such a beauty (:

[grokh]

Hi, I played yesterday with my food chain deck in a GPTrial Paris Legacy-event in a local store. 21 players showed up and we played 5 rounds of swiss and top8. I went 3-1-1 with the following list and was 3rd after the swiss and made myself to the tops.

Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Forest
2 Island

Creatures
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Fierce Empath
1 AEthersnipe
1 Griselbrand
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Progenitus
2 Birds of Paradise

Spells
4 Food Chain
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Misdirection
4 Natural Order
3 Manipulate Fate

Sideboard
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Spell Pierce
1 Wipe Away
4 Show and Tell
2 Omniscience
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Relic of Progenitus

R1 vs. BUGstill 2-1
R2 vs. Affinity 2-1
R3 vs. UR-delver 1-2
R4 vs UWR-delver 2-1
R5 vs. BUG id (played for fun and I won 3-0)

Top8 R1 vs. another UR-delver 0-2

Hi Obould,

I played exactly your list to Grand Prix Paris this week-end.

R1 : Lose 1-2 against Painter
R2 : Win 2-1 against UB Reanimator
R3 : Lose 1-2 against TES
R4 : Draw 1-1 against a kinda Stoneblade packing True-name Nemesis, Knight of the reliquary, Scavenging ooze ...
R5 : Win against no opponent, then test and win 2-0 against another player having no opponent playing Zombardment

I dropped after R5 cos i could reach only 19 pts and i needed 21 pts for going on the 2nd day.

Here are my thoughts :
++ :
- The maindeck is just awesome, i think i'll make no changes, maybe test with 3 Deathrite shaman or with 3 Ancient tomb
- Show and tell transformal SB is just awesome too !
- Against Reanimator : Casting Natural order on Progenitus on turn 2 then Show and tell on AEthersnipe (in case he would put something) on turn 3 :cool:

-- :
- You real need to pray when playing against Storm.deck for touching your lone Spell pierce in SB
- Same when need to touch one of your 3 SB-pieces against Grave.deck
- Painter who puts Blood moon + Ensnaring bridge + Painter's servant + Grindstone and totally locks me
- Against TES : Casting Natural order on Progenitus on turn 2 and seeing him combo off on his turn 2 ... :mad:

So here are my ideas for improve the SB :
1) Play Ruric Thar, the Unbowed in your SB, you can
- fetch it with Fierce empath then cast it with Food chain
- tutor it with Natural Order
- get it into play with Show and tell
- costs almost nothing to buy, real cheap solution :tongue:

And it's a real solution against Storm.decks, maybe combo.decks in general !

2) Play Terastodon in your SB, for same reasons as Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, and you can destroy lots of permanents able to lock you, and you can go for 1 9/9 and 3 3/3 Elephant tokens if needed by destroying your own lands if needed.

3) For graveyard hates, I thought to play :
- 1 Savannah + 2 Rest in peace for grave.decks but maybe ?
- 1 Scavenging Ooze you could tutor with Natural order maybe ?

On the MD, maybe test with 3 Deathrite shaman for being better against grave.decks, or 3 Ancient tomb to go faster.

Tell me your thoughts about it Obould !

Thank you

[BaroqueW]

Hello there,

I have not put that deck together on paper yet but I have half the cards and goldfished a bit with it online. It is definitely in my queue of decks for the legacy local events.

Does any one have any experience on how it fares against Pox? There is quite some in my meta. I would expect that once you have a Food Chain on the table, you should be safe getting off in one turn and avoiding their sorcery-speed sac' effects since you get Emrakul's extra turn to swing. Then I guess bringing the SnT plan after boarding will throw off their hate/discard/extirpate. Anything else to think about?

Has there been any thoughts around playing cards like Venser, Shaper Savant, Draining Whelk, Mystic snake / i.e. counterspells that could be played off Food chain? I would think they could prove useful when going for the half/non-combo described in the beginning of the thread.

Any thoughts about Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir to do some Food chain shenanigans in the opponent's turn? Chomp block -> Exile Misthollow griffin to Food chain -> Cast it immediately again without waiting next turn/summoning sickness, perhaps?

[Obould]

Hi Obould,

I played exactly your list to Grand Prix Paris this week-end.

R1 : Lose 1-2 against Painter
R2 : Win 2-1 against UB Reanimator
R3 : Lose 1-2 against TES
R4 : Draw 1-1 against a kinda Stoneblade packing True-name Nemesis, Knight of the reliquary, Scavenging ooze ...
R5 : Win against no opponent, then test and win 2-0 against another player having no opponent playing Zombardment

I dropped after R5 cos i could reach only 19 pts and i needed 21 pts for going on the 2nd day.

Here are my thoughts :
++ :
- The maindeck is just awesome, i think i'll make no changes, maybe test with 3 Deathrite shaman or with 3 Ancient tomb
- Show and tell transformal SB is just awesome too !
- Against Reanimator : Casting Natural order on Progenitus on turn 2 then Show and tell on AEthersnipe (in case he would put something) on turn 3 :cool:

-- :
- You real need to pray when playing against Storm.deck for touching your lone Spell pierce in SB
- Same when need to touch one of your 3 SB-pieces against Grave.deck
- Painter who puts Blood moon + Ensnaring bridge + Painter's servant + Grindstone and totally locks me
- Against TES : Casting Natural order on Progenitus on turn 2 and seeing him combo off on his turn 2 ... :mad:

So here are my ideas for improve the SB :
1) Play Ruric Thar, the Unbowed in your SB, you can
- fetch it with Fierce empath then cast it with Food chain
- tutor it with Natural Order
- get it into play with Show and tell
- costs almost nothing to buy, real cheap solution :tongue:

And it's a real solution against Storm.decks, maybe combo.decks in general !

2) Play Terastodon in your SB, for same reasons as Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, and you can destroy lots of permanents able to lock you, and you can go for 1 9/9 and 3 3/3 Elephant tokens if needed by destroying your own lands if needed.

3) For graveyard hates, I thought to play :
- 1 Savannah + 2 Rest in peace for grave.decks but maybe ?
- 1 Scavenging Ooze you could tutor with Natural order maybe ?

On the MD, maybe test with 3 Deathrite shaman for being better against grave.decks, or 3 Ancient tomb to go faster.

Tell me your thoughts about it Obould !

Thank you

Hi,

your suggestions seems legit. I was expecting a lot of bug and delver/TNN decks and other aggro like burn and boros. Thats why I chose angel over terastodon. I think this deck doesn't care much about gravedecks other than the faster ones like Oops, all spells and reanimators because they are faster than us and against them surgical extractions with counterspells are good enough. I was hoping not to get paired against TES ;) Ruric is a good call! I think next time I try ruric and terastodon in place of wipe away and angel. If I tune MD I think I start trying with 3 ancient tomb because we need to be fast and shaman is just a 1/2 beater against bug and other shaman decks.

[grokh]

Hi,

your suggestions seems legit. I was expecting a lot of bug and delver/TNN decks and other aggro like burn and boros. Thats why I chose angel over terastodon. I think this deck doesn't care much about gravedecks other than the faster ones like Oops, all spells and reanimators because they are faster than us and against them surgical extractions with counterspells are good enough. I was hoping not to get paired against TES ;) Ruric is a good call! I think next time I try ruric and terastodon in place of wipe away and angel. If I tune MD I think I start trying with 3 ancient tomb because we need to be fast and shaman is just a 1/2 beater against bug and other shaman decks.

Yep, as you say i don't think adding Deathrite shaman is a good idea cos he's not always able to produce mana.

So maybe trying with 3 Ancient tomb seems better.

I think, as you noticed that it's better to have a SB full of green creatures cos your Natural order becomes real more powerful on game 2 as a tutor rather than praying for getting 1 lone Spell pierce / Wipe away in SB

And you don't care about delver/TNN decks cos if you're able to get your combo, you'll win in the turn.

[Razorwynd]

Something came up last night while Joe Lossett (sp?) was streaming; if you are using deathrite shaman you can exile your griffin to cast it again… this is certainly not common but it may be a useful interaction. I guess the same holds true for Scavenging Ooze.

[Beatusnox]

So ive been playing this deck for a few weeks now, got second place at a small local tournament losing only to BG Pox. Beat Lands, and High Tide.

Current List

4 Noble Hierarch
1 Emrakul, The Aeons torn
1 Griselbrand
1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
3 MullDrifter
3 Fierce Empath
3 Wall of Roots
1 Aethersnipe
3 Misthollow Griffin

4 Food chain
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
3 Beck // call
3 Manipulate Fate

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Tropical Island
2 Island
2 Forest
2 Ancient Tomb


So far its all in on the combo, but its been working very, very well. In my testing and from the games yesterday, it feels very solid. Turn 3 was my average turn on the day, Beck is an amazing card in here though costing 2 is a little annoying. The reason why I am playing Beck over Glimpse of Nature is the fact that Beck states MAY draw a card. Allowing you in your combo turn to play it and just pick up cards from your library until you have a win+ protection to go off through. I do not yet really have a sideboard for the deck, so I played fearless on the day and was still able to do as well as I did, though it was a small tourney.

Thoughts on sideboard cards:
2-3 Flusterstorm to improve the combo matchup exponentially.
2-3 Misdirection to make Abrupt decay worse and to protect Food Chain.
2-3 Leyline of the Void anti Graveyard spell, also considering testing adding 1-2 Savannah and using Rest in Piece instead to prevent discard from preventing usefulness of Misthollow
Beyond this I draw a blank, at the moment I am thinking on a possible NoPro Style sideboard plan or an aggro plan with TNN, Goyf and Delver. Notable cards I'm also considering, Spell Pierce, Green Sun's Zenith, and Daze.

[Holden1669]

The reason why I am playing Beck over Glimpse of Nature is the fact that Beck states MAY draw a card. Allowing you in your combo turn to play it and just pick up cards from your library until you have a win+ protection to go off through.

When would you choose not to draw a card? I guess if your Emrakul is the last card in the deck, maybe?

[NiRVeS]

Has anyone considering using Imperial Recruiter in this deck?
You can chain them into each other, and then move into the Emath-Snipe-Griselbrand plan.

Nut draw, which doesn't require a Griffin in hand:

Turn 1:
Land, Hierarch (or DRS)

Turn 2:
Land, Food Chain
Chain Hierarch into any 2-drop
Chain 2-drop (+RRR) into Recruiter(1) (-RRR) and search for Recruiter(2).
Chain Recruiter(1) (+RRRR) into Recruiter(2) (-RRR) and search for Recruiter(3). R floating.
Chain Recruiter(2) (+GGGG) into Recruiter(3) (-RGG) and search for Fierce Empath. GG floating.
Chain Recruiter(3) (+UUUU) into Fierce Empath (-UUG) and search for Aethersnipe. UUG floating.
Evoke Aethersnipe (-UUG, empty pool) and bounce the Fierce Empath.
Chain the Aethersnipe with the sacrifice-trigger on the stack (+GGGGGGG) and cast Fierce Empath (-GGG), finding Griselbrand. GGGG floating.
Chain Fierce Empath for BBBB and cast Griselbrand.

They could also be used to tutor for silver bullets, although that would take the deck towards a more (and probably too) durdly plan.

If anybody tinkered with a build in this vain, I would like to hear from your experiences.

Grtz,

Tom

[Beatusnox]

When would you choose not to draw a card? I guess if your Emrakul is the last card in the deck, maybe?

Generally speaking, in any event where the number of times you must cast griffin is greater than the number of cards in your library. Or if you are playing against random janky decks such as mill where leaving cards in your library can prevent random auto losses. If I have the definite win+ strong backup in hand, often times ill stop drawing. Though I will admit pick up my library kill you is fun.

[Obould]

I really suggest you for having at least a second win con in main or at least in side. Every once and then opponent plays extirpate/surgical extraction and with discard and/or counters they just take your win con away. That doesn't happen too often but when it does it is just too annoying. Some times griffins are enough but I wouldn't rely on them. Also without removals a single phyrexian revoker or medling mage naming food chain kills your combo (I faced both of them in my last tourney and managed to get through with natural order and show and tell).

[KevinSrednoselac]

Hey guys just a heads up i love the deck and will be playing it on the 16th at a win a dual legacy event.
I will post the list afterwards and let you all know how it performs.

[nevilshute]

Hey guys just a heads up i love the deck and will be playing it on the 16th at a win a dual legacy event.
I will post the list afterwards and let you all know how it performs.

I hope you crush it! Looking forward to hearing how it went :)

[Beatusnox]

I really suggest you for having at least a second win con in main or at least in side. Every once and then opponent plays extirpate/surgical extraction and with discard and/or counters they just take your win con away. That doesn't happen too often but when it does it is just too annoying. Some times griffins are enough but I wouldn't rely on them. Also without removals a single phyrexian revoker or medling mage naming food chain kills your combo (I faced both of them in my last tourney and managed to get through with natural order and show and tell).

Aethersnipe is fairly effective as an answer to Needle or Revoker but I agree with them being a huge issue. As of right now I am fairly happy with the main but definitely am clueless on a sideboard plan. The one I am more closely leaning towards would be a nopro style setup.

The side I will try to test this week.


2 flusterstorm
2 misdirection
2 spell pierce
3 natural order
2 progenitus
1 Aethersnipe
2 natures claim

[Obould]

Aethersnipe is fairly effective as an answer to Needle or Revoker but I agree with them being a huge issue. As of right now I am fairly happy with the main but definitely am clueless on a sideboard plan. The one I am more closely leaning towards would be a nopro style setup.

The side I will try to test this week.


2 flusterstorm
2 misdirection
2 spell pierce
3 natural order
2 progenitus
1 Aethersnipe
2 natures claim


If you are trying natural order I would also suggest adding one dryad arbor main (maybe in place of one tropical island?). It has won me quite many games when opponent tries to keep board clear of creatures or fetching it in response to liliana's sac-ability. Also if you are willing to add black abrupt decays would be better than extra aethersnipe and natures claim..? I'm not saying that these are better solutions, but worth a try. Also how is Maga working for you? Is it just a win more because you can't tutor it with empath and when you are drawing cards with beck//call you can just win with emrakul, griselbrand and griffins hitting face?

EDIT: And I would also try to fit in the misdirections MD. Maybe -1 Maga(if maga isn't too important), -1 mulldrifter or beck//call, +2 misdirection?

[adrieng]

I am testing this list,

don't know yet if it is better than both standard food chain or dark depth.
It seems that food chain can ignore dark depths hate(wasteland/sword/karakas), and dark depth can ignore food chain hate (decay/revoker).
I haven't done much testing yet though.
With infinite mana and a billion of land tutor you can get eye for emmy.
Side is in construction, basically the same that when i played dakr depths.

I am also wondering why people play more than 1 elfe tutor for emmy, while green sun's zenith does the same thing but allows turn one dryad arbor.

Thoughts ?


4 Food Chain
3 Misthollow Griffin
4 Crop Rotation
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Dark Depths
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Ghost Quarter
4 City of Brass
3 Manipulate Fate
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Forest
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Gemstone Mine
3 Sylvan Library
4 Expedition Map
4 Pithing Needle
3 Sylvan Scrying
SB: 1 Ancient Tomb
SB: 4 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 4 Trinisphere
SB: 4 Swan Song
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Envelop
1 Marit Lage

[Obould]

I am also wondering why people play more than 1 elfe tutor for emmy, while green sun's zenith does the same thing but allows turn one dryad arbor.



You can only cast creature spells with the mana from food chain so the mana can't be spent to cast GSZ or activate eye of ugin.

[adrieng]

Ok tanks for the info, so my deck won't work ...

[KevinSrednoselac]

Okay guys the tournament i will be going to is this sunday and here is my list.

Its RUG because its my favorite combination and I have a red backup plan.

Creatures:

3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Birds of Paradise
3x Fierce Empath
2x Drift of Phantasms
2x Coiling Oracle
3x Griffin
1x Eternal Witness
1x Mulldrifter
1x Emrakul
1x Ashen Rider
1x Griselbrand

Spells:
4x Food Chain
4x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
2x Daze
3x Manipulate Fate
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder

Lands:
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Island
3x Forest
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Tropical Island
1x Volcanic Island
1x Taiga

Sideboard:
2x Through The breach--------main reason for red
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Spellskite
1x Flusterstorm
2x Obstinate Baloth
1x Krosan Grip
2x Echoing Truth
1x Iona
1x Elesh Norn
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Notion Theif



I know there is not a lot of dual lands mainly because If I lose its not because I get wasteland locked.

I noticed Liliana of the Veil can be a problem and hymn to tourach, which is why obstinate baloth is in the board.

Sneak Attack probably seems more viable than through the breach, but I do prefer through the breach because it cannot be pithing needled.

Main deck Ashen Rider is mainly because I'm chosing not to lose to sneak and show g1.

Spellskite is the answer to abrupt decay

Notion Theif pretty much stomps every brainstorm deck that does not run immediate removal due to the fact that i don't play undergrounds. They think the coast is clear with no black but I can sack creatures on THEIR turn because notion thief does have flash.

Open to any and all feedback but try to make it quick because this win a dual land tourney is this Sunday (March 16th)

Cheers

[Obould]

Okay guys the tournament i will be going to is this sunday and here is my list.

Its RUG because its my favorite combination and I have a red backup plan.

Creatures:

3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Birds of Paradise
3x Fierce Empath
2x Drift of Phantasms
2x Coiling Oracle
3x Griffin
1x Eternal Witness
1x Mulldrifter
1x Emrakul
1x Ashen Rider
1x Griselbrand

Spells:
4x Food Chain
4x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
2x Daze
3x Manipulate Fate
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder

Lands:
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Island
3x Forest
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Tropical Island
1x Volcanic Island
1x Taiga

Sideboard:
2x Through The breach--------main reason for red
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Spellskite
1x Flusterstorm
2x Obstinate Baloth
1x Krosan Grip
2x Echoing Truth
1x Iona
1x Elesh Norn
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Notion Theif



I know there is not a lot of dual lands mainly because If I lose its not because I get wasteland locked.

I noticed Liliana of the Veil can be a problem and hymn to tourach, which is why obstinate baloth is in the board.

Sneak Attack probably seems more viable than through the breach, but I do prefer through the breach because it cannot be pithing needled.

Main deck Ashen Rider is mainly because I'm chosing not to lose to sneak and show g1.

Spellskite is the answer to abrupt decay

Notion Theif pretty much stomps every brainstorm deck that does not run immediate removal due to the fact that i don't play undergrounds. They think the coast is clear with no black but I can sack creatures on THEIR turn because notion thief does have flash.

Open to any and all feedback but try to make it quick because this win a dual land tourney is this Sunday (March 16th)

Cheers

Hi, interesting list and good luck to the tournament!

I have a few questions about your list.
1. What is the single Eternal witness for? You don't have intuition package or others to use it so most of the time it could be just a 2/1 guy for 3 mana..?
2. Single dryad arbor without green sun's zenith or natural order? It doesn't speed up your plays (actually slowers you because you can't tap it for mana the turn you play it).
3. Many one-offs and 2-offs in your sideboard without any way to tutor them? Most of the time you end up without seeing them when you need them.
4. Through the breach (and only 2 of them) with only one emrakul. Also it is cmc 5 and you don't have any other mana ramp/fast mana than 4 manadorks. I would try to play a few ancient tombs with it.

[KevinSrednoselac]

Hi, interesting list and good luck to the tournament!

I have a few questions about your list.
1. What is the single Eternal witness for? You don't have intuition package or others to use it so most of the time it could be just a 2/1 guy for 3 mana..?
2. Single dryad arbor without green sun's zenith or natural order? It doesn't speed up your plays (actually slowers you because you can't tap it for mana the turn you play it).
3. Many one-offs and 2-offs in your sideboard without any way to tutor them? Most of the time you end up without seeing them when you need them.
4. Through the breach (and only 2 of them) with only one emrakul. Also it is cmc 5 and you don't have any other mana ramp/fast mana than 4 manadorks. I would try to play a few ancient tombs with it.



eternal witness i learned is good because if my crap gets hymned or abrupt decayed I don't have to worry in g1. Its usually always a side out unless i play something like pox.

dryad arbor is pretty much a cute card that i will get with misty rainforest, i was thinking about dropping it but im still not sure yet, I kind of like it.

the deck plays an insane amount of cantrips so sideboard cards have never been a problem for me. Through the breach and emrakul is good with the fierce empath but even better with ashen rider because through the breach makes you sacrifice the creature not exile it, so double ashen rider exile trigger

i have never had land problems once, considering wasteland decks can't beat me

I agree with ancient tomb but at the same time I like having 19 mana with 4 mana dorks and I cannot find room for ancient tomb.

I will post any changes after the event if there are any

[KevinSrednoselac]

So I went x-2 at the legacy tourney. Both games I lost were to reanimator. I learned that this deck has a bad combo matchup especially when the combo deck plays thoughtseize. Uw miracles is probably the best match because they can't swords your Griffin. Control decks allow you the time you need to set up. I ended up in 6th place( not terrible). But I probably wouldn't play this deck again. I think food chain needs a better plan that isnt griffin beat down.

[Obould]

So I went x-2 at the legacy tourney. Both games I lost were to reanimator. I learned that this deck has a bad combo matchup especially when the combo deck plays thoughtseize. Uw miracles is probably the best match because they can't swords your Griffin. Control decks allow you the time you need to set up. I ended up in 6th place( not terrible). But I probably wouldn't play this deck again. I think food chain needs a better plan that isnt griffin beat down.

This is the reason I use natural order MD and show and tell sideboard. Against storm combos I now have ruric in sideboard to tutor with natural order or put from show and tell (hopefully turn 2). But I agree that combos are bad if not our worst matches.

[KevinSrednoselac]

I was thinkin of making a cascade version of the deck with bloodbraid ill post it later

[Koby]

I was thinkin of making a cascade version of the deck with bloodbraid ill post it later

Can you include Maelstrom Wanderer, just for kicks? :)

[grokh]

Can you include Maelstrom Wanderer, just for kicks? :)

The problem you wil get with a Cascade version is that all creatures with Cascade are multicolored, and Food chain produces mana of any one single color to your mana pool.

So you'll be able to Cascade a lot only when you'll get infinite, and that's the main problem you'll encounter

[Benrobnu]

I'm actually interested in putting this deck together, but I have two questions.

1) Is drift of phantasms actually playable in the deck. I know it gets food chain but I feel like there has to be something better. Like Maybe even Goyf.
2) Has anyone play tested Time of Need or Wordly Tutor.

[Megadeus]

I was personally thinking of BANT with Eledamri's call.

My buddy went 3-0-1 and won his top 8 match with a BUG version last night. The deck is pretty cool

[Benrobnu]

I was personally thinking of BANT with Eledamri's call.

My buddy went 3-0-1 and won his top 8 match with a BUG version last night. The deck is pretty cool

Bant also gives you Enlightened Tutor. Now we only need an EidolonofGriselbees enchantment/creature in nyx and we are good to go.

[Obould]

I was personally thinking of BANT with Eledamri's call.

My buddy went 3-0-1 and won his top 8 match with a BUG version last night. The deck is pretty cool

Hi,

do you remember the list your friend played with? And how was the match ups..?

And I think someone tried a bant version last year when the old food chain thread was "active". Maybe the list can be found somewhere..

[nevilshute]

Hi,

do you remember the list your friend played with? And how was the match ups..?

And I think someone tried a bant version last year when the old food chain thread was "active". Maybe the list can be found somewhere..

There's a link to the old thread on the first page of this primer :)

[Megadeus]

Hi,

do you remember the list your friend played with? And how was the match ups..?

And I think someone tried a bant version last year when the old food chain thread was "active". Maybe the list can be found somewhere..

He played this - Aethersnipe (he forgot to add in before the tourney, +Teferi, Mage of Zhilfers (sp?) because yolo.

3x Misthollow Griffin
3x Fierce Empath
1x Aethersnipe
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Baleful Strix
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Brainstorm
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Force of Will
3x Manipulate Fate
4x Ponder
3x Thoughtseize
4x Food Chain
1x Swamp
1x Island
2x Underground Sea
2x Bayou
3x Tropical Island
4x Polluted Delta
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Misty Rainforest

[FTW]

Above list with Strix looks good. No Griselbrand? I thought that was one of the points of Snipe (you have exact Griselbrand mana if you Empath -> Snipe -> Empath -> Griselbees)

[nevilshute]

Jonathan Job on camera at SCGLA in round 4 right now with UG Food Chain! Up a game against Punishing Maverick :) Go go!

[Megadeus]

Pretty sure he is in Top 8. Is this a real deck now?

[JPoJohnson]

Pretty sure he is in Top 8. Is this a real deck now?

Now? It has been a real deck!

[Benrobnu]

Pretty sure he is in Top 8. Is this a real deck now?

I am absolutely rooting for him.

[FTW]

I am absolutely rooting for him.

Tidespout Tyrant seems like great tech.
How can his deck function without Fierce Empaths though? Does he just go Griffin beatdown more often than not? What's the point of Food Chain if you can't search for and play a fatty?

[jin]

Tidespout Tyrant seems like great tech.
How can his deck function without Fierce Empaths though? Does he just go Griffin beatdown more often than not? What's the point of Food Chain if you can't search for and play a fatty?

With Bouncers like the Djinn and Venser, and cantrips like Wall of Blossom and Clique, he can cycle through his deck when he has infinite mana. He can draw whatever he wants.

[FTW]

With Bouncers like the Djinn and Venser, and cantrips like Wall of Blossom and Clique, he can cycle through his deck when he has infinite mana. He can draw whatever he wants.

He can cycle once he has Tidespout, but with 2 Tidespout + 1 Emrakul, how does he get there in the first place while assembling Food Chain+Griffin? I guess the cantrips must prove to be sufficient if he's doing so well. I'm just surprised.

[jin]

He can cycle once he has Tidespout, but with 2 Tidespout + 1 Emrakul, how does he get there in the first place while assembling Food Chain+Griffin? I guess the cantrips must prove to be sufficient if he's doing so well. I'm just surprised.

The priority is still setting up Food Chain and Griffin. Venser and Karakas could do some cycling.

Tidespout alone can win the game with infinite mana. I think maybe he is just diversifying the win-cons. Instead of the tutor and Emrakul, now he is playing Tidespout and Emrakul. It is probably more of a beat down deck than normal, since the Djinn is a 5/5

[nevilshute]

Absolutely stoked to wake up and learn that Jonathan Job top-4'd SCGLA! A big congratulations :)

Very interesting take on the deck. I join in with the people curious about some of his choices. Particularily the omission of Fierce Empath seems a bit odd. I really like the Tyrant though.

Don't know if Jonathan frequents this thread but I sure would love a tournament report of some sort :) I will be putting up links to his on-camera matches in the primer.

[kingtk3]

I would like to congratulate with Jonathan too.

I also think that we can finally transcend to the established forum: please admins!

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

[DragoFireheart]

More creature bouncing is pure genius. Watch the prices of Griffins and Food Chains go up.

[Holden1669]

After I saw the Aluren list with Shardless Agent at SCG Seattle I put together a Shardless list for Food Chain but didn't play any matches with it. I didn't like how it seemed parallel and not really more powerful than my two win conditions of Food Chain or Natural Order. But now that I've seen Job's list and played a few matches with it I really like the choices that he made. And they are all internally consistent as well.

Playing only the Food Chain combo and not including Natural Order/Show and Tell, including Shardless Agent, excluding Empath, and playing two Tidespouts instead of more Emrakuls gives him a more coherent deck that is better at playing the Plan B win with flying 3/3s approach. It isn't as dependent on either resolving OR protecting a Food Chain. This is especially relevant in a world where BUG Delver (with discard, counter magic, and Abrupt Decay) is one of the most popular decks.

1. With Shardless you are more likely to have multiple creatures (and especially 3 cmc or higher creatures to immediately allow casting Griffin) in play when you resolve Food Chain. Shardless is also good as a value creature that opponents don't really feel the need to kill, leaving it on the board for chaining.

2. Without Natural Order you are less likely to draw cards that don't help your main win conditions. And it makes it easier for you to play Clique and Venser, which are strong.

3. If you do resolve a Food Chain and they have the Abrupt Decay (or similar), if your plan is to play infinite Griffins, Empath and then Emrakul then you don't get to do that. If you have a Shardless or two, a mana dork, a Clique, whatever, then you have a decent chance of being able to respond to the Abrupt Decay by removing a few guys and getting a Tidespout. You can semi-reasonably cast Tidespout even without Food Chain or pitch it to FoW.

4. If you have a Tidespout in play and are recurring Griffins then you bounce their entire board and can draw your deck with one of the Wall of Blossoms if you still need to for some reason. You really don't need Emrakul here most of the time.

5. This tournament shows how strong Griffin is just by itself. As one of the commentators pointed out a 4cc flyer who keeps coming back is a very difficult problem to solve in Legacy. Also it pitches to FoW/Misdirection for value.

6. Basically, Empath is a bad card unless you were just about to combo. It almost always just went to get the same creature but it really doesn't do enough. Venser and Clique let you play Magic and are strong cards, while Empath is not. Also the fact that they have Flash is very relevant. And Venser is another way to protect from Abrupt Decay (if only temporarily, but that may be all you need).

So yeah, I tend to get too caught up in how a deck is being built and I keep cards because they seem crucial. Empath, in particular, was a sacred cow for me and I had mostly stopped playing the deck because Empath and Natural Order made it clunky. It's pretty awesome, I think, that Job had this result to shake up our thinking.

[HammafistRoob]

It's kinda cute to exile Griffins with Deathrite and be able to recast them. Is there a way to squeeze more Shamans in there?

[nevilshute]

It's kinda cute to exile Griffins with Deathrite and be able to recast them. Is there a way to squeeze more Shamans in there?

I've played lists with 4 shamans to reasonable success. My current list runs a 3/2 split of Deathrite Shaman and Noble Hierarch.

[nevilshute]

After I saw the Aluren list with Shardless Agent at SCG Seattle I put together a Shardless list for Food Chain but didn't play any matches with it. I didn't like how it seemed parallel and not really more powerful than my two win conditions of Food Chain or Natural Order. But now that I've seen Job's list and played a few matches with it I really like the choices that he made. And they are all internally consistent as well.

Playing only the Food Chain combo and not including Natural Order/Show and Tell, including Shardless Agent, excluding Empath, and playing two Tidespouts instead of more Emrakuls gives him a more coherent deck that is better at playing the Plan B win with flying 3/3s approach. It isn't as dependent on either resolving OR protecting a Food Chain. This is especially relevant in a world where BUG Delver (with discard, counter magic, and Abrupt Decay) is one of the most popular decks.

1. With Shardless you are more likely to have multiple creatures (and especially 3 cmc or higher creatures to immediately allow casting Griffin) in play when you resolve Food Chain. Shardless is also good as a value creature that opponents don't really feel the need to kill, leaving it on the board for chaining.

2. Without Natural Order you are less likely to draw cards that don't help your main win conditions. And it makes it easier for you to play Clique and Venser, which are strong.

3. If you do resolve a Food Chain and they have the Abrupt Decay (or similar), if your plan is to play infinite Griffins, Empath and then Emrakul then you don't get to do that. If you have a Shardless or two, a mana dork, a Clique, whatever, then you have a decent chance of being able to respond to the Abrupt Decay by removing a few guys and getting a Tidespout. You can semi-reasonably cast Tidespout even without Food Chain or pitch it to FoW.

4. If you have a Tidespout in play and are recurring Griffins then you bounce their entire board and can draw your deck with one of the Wall of Blossoms if you still need to for some reason. You really don't need Emrakul here most of the time.

5. This tournament shows how strong Griffin is just by itself. As one of the commentators pointed out a 4cc flyer who keeps coming back is a very difficult problem to solve in Legacy. Also it pitches to FoW/Misdirection for value.

6. Basically, Empath is a bad card unless you were just about to combo. It almost always just went to get the same creature but it really doesn't do enough. Venser and Clique let you play Magic and are strong cards, while Empath is not. Also the fact that they have Flash is very relevant. And Venser is another way to protect from Abrupt Decay (if only temporarily, but that may be all you need).

So yeah, I tend to get too caught up in how a deck is being built and I keep cards because they seem crucial. Empath, in particular, was a sacred cow for me and I had mostly stopped playing the deck because Empath and Natural Order made it clunky. It's pretty awesome, I think, that Job had this result to shake up our thinking.

I think the main difference is, how combo-oriented you want your deck to be as opposed to playing the more grindy creature beats plan. Clearly, Fierce Empath as a 1/1 for :g::2: is very weak. What he does do, is win the game for you once you go infinite. I don't personally like a build that is likely to leave you without a way to win from going infinite due to too few win cons. Think it depends a lot on playstyle and temperament.

[KevinSrednoselac]

Its funny that I was "dissed" on for the cadcade idea and the top 8 version played shardless agent. Spooky

[nedleeds]

You truly have your revenge. Congrats.

[MaximumC]

Here's John's list, according to SCG here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=65228

4 Shardless Agent
1 Deathrite Shaman
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Tidespout Tyrant
2 Wall of Blossoms
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
Lands (21)

3 Forest
4 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas

Spells (17)

4 Food Chain
1 Sylvan Library
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Manipulate Fate

Sideboard

2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Null Rod
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Obstinate Baloth
1 Misdirection
4 Submerge

I think what John managed to do is to seamlessly merge a midrange-aggro plan with the Food Chain combo. The only dead card in the maindeck (absent the combo) is Food Chain.

Gone is the Holy Trinity of Empath+Aethersnipe+Grislebrand, apparently because each of those cards is not super great on its own. In its place, he has Wall of Blossoms and Shardless Agent. The only targets for Shardless in the deck are Blossoms (draw cards), brainstorm (draw cards), Sylvan Library (draw cards), Manipulate Fate (draw Griffins), Deathrite Shaman (regrow Griffins) and Noble Hierarch (the booby prize). So, Shardless usually gives you a card or two, sometimes a permanent as well. He synergizes with the kind of counterspell suite this deck wants to run (FoW and MisD). I also am really impressed with the combination of Manipulate Fate + Shardless; in late game, he can probably control his cascade with great precision (need to dig for an answer? Manipulate away non-brainstorm cascade targets!)

Thing is, if he assembles the combo, he has to have one of 3 cards in his deck in hand to win on the spot, and some of them are conditional. Sure, if it has Tyrant or Venser + Wall of Blossoms, Agent, or Clique he can draw his deck. But he has no way of getting these cards except by hard drawing them. I guess I can't argue with success, but this seems like a fragile engine to me.

[JPoJohnson]

More creature bouncing is pure genius. Watch the prices of Griffins and Food Chains go up.

Maybe if this was a modern deck those cards would skyrocket overnight...:laugh:

[Megadeus]

Maybe if this was a modern deck those cards would skyrocket overnight...:laugh:

Well Food Chains are 15 bucks now

edit: more like 12

[Poron]

these lists do want 4x Natural Order to be competitive

[kingtk3]

And Now we are established! Good job everyone, no pun intended :-)

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

[Razorwynd]

these lists do want 4x Natural Order to be competitive

These (^) posts want 4x more explanation to considered intelligent

[Hanzalot]

Sure, if it has Tyrant or Venser + Wall of Blossoms, Agent, or Clique he can draw his deck. But he has no way of getting these cards except by hard drawing them. I guess I can't argue with success, but this seems like a fragile engine to me.

Isn't Tidespout Tyrant needed to draw his deck? Venser + Wall / Agent / Clique only lets him draw one extra card, right? (by bouncing them and replaying them once).

Hans

[nevilshute]

Added video content to section XIII of the primer, enjoy :)

[Lithium]

Isn't Tidespout Tyrant needed to draw his deck? Venser + Wall / Agent / Clique only lets him draw one extra card, right? (by bouncing them and replaying them once).

Hans

I'm Also wondering the same thing, the most card draw I can see coming from Venser + Wall of Blossoms is from the following chain.

Play Wall of Blossoms (1st extra card). Cast Venser, bounce and play Wall of Blossoms (2nd extra card). Karakas targeting Venser, play Venser, Bounce and play Wall of Blossoms (3rd extra card).

3 extra cards is pretty good IMO if you combine with sylvan library, fetch lands, brainstorms, shardless agents. But there is still a big chance you miss finding Emrakul or Tidespout, but on the bright side of things you will still have 4 griffins in play so the clock is very short.

I was playing this deck online earlier today and was able to fog a Wurmcoil Engine while sifting through my deck with Vendilion Clique + Karakas looking for Food Chain to combo out and win. Just having the ability for these little interactions is awesome and makes me want to play this deck vice a very linear combo deck like storm or reanimator. The only thing i'm not really sold on from the SCG LA list is the sideboard it's good but online the meta is crazy so i'm still trying to tweak the sideboard to help shore up some matches, if anyone has some cool new sideboard tech they found i'd love to hear some cause i'm just hitting brick walls sometimes.

[chinEsE girl]

I played the current shardless / no fierce empath version today at a 33 man local event and went undefeated the whole way to take first place. The list is pretty much the same as the one Job had at the recent SCG, which was actually a carbon copy of the list from MODO which my friend Phil Stolze had 4-0d a couple of dailies with. The only changes I made were cutting the second wall and a venser to play 2 more death rites. I also changed up the sideboard a lot, which had 4 ancestral visions for all the BGx decks that just want to hymn you. I also had flusterstorms to fight combo, I wouldn't have beaten my high tide opponent without them. The deck was pretty sweet, just casting manipulate fate for value was so awesome against all the fair decks. The one thing that was missing was catch all for hate cards in the board. I had games against death and taxes where I had to jump through a ton of hoops because they had 3 different hate bears on the board and I couldn't combo. I'm going to try playing some engineered explosives in my sideboard for that reason. The only cards that could ever beat me in fair matchups were 2 drops, and EE is insane there since food chain has barely any 2s in it at all. I'm not sure if I'll keep playing the deck going forward, but for anyone who really wants to work on it, they should really try some EEs in the board.

[Lithium]

I don't think cutting the walls in favor of Deathrite is the way to go, i'd much rather shardless into a wall for the cantrip then have another Deathrite in play when i'm trying to push the combo forward. Engineered Explosives is an interesting card for the board I was trying to find an answer to Death and Taxes or other fast paced decks. I'm not a fan of puting Ancestral Vision's in the 75 they would be awesome in the right circumstance but i'd rather be playing a Noble Hierarch on first turn then suspending a Visions and if you draw one later trying to find a Brainstorm and Shardless Agent to set up the free 3 card combo would be tricky. I know it's a strong combo in Shardless BUG but I just think it may make this deck a little to clunky. What I have been thinking about is trimming a few spots for a couple Living Wish in an attempt to give a little versatility to the combo turn so we could wish for Emrakul or Tidespout Tyrant but trying to jam a couple in without diluting the deck is very tricky. I feel like the flow of the UG Shardless version that Job ran is very good the way it is. I'm still messing with my sideboard to try and optimize it against the MTGO meta but don't feel it's in a good place yet to try to pilot through a daily.

[maCHOOga]

After seeing the coverage I was also inspired to build and play this deck. It's a blast to play and the first tournament I played with it went 3-1, loosing to rug delver nut draws. Since the deck already plays white via noble heirarch, has any one one tried white over the deathrite "black splash". White gives you RIP out of sideboard. It also gives you access to swords to plowshares and Geist of st traft, when you covert the deck to planB mode.

Also, I never thought I would get into a counterspell war over a wall of blossoms, but it happened! Wall -> daze -> FoW (pitching griffin) -> FoW back. Lolol

[atopebenidorm]

I am playing the current list:

1 Tidespout Tyrant
2 Griselbrand
2 Noble hierarch
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Baleful Strix
4 Shardless Agent
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Deathrite Shaman

1 Misdirection
3 Manipulate Fate
4 Force of will
4 Brainstorm

4 Food Chain

1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Forest
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs

I think Griselbrand is more easy to cast from hand than Emrakul without combo . Really funny deck. With food chain and Griffin(s) in play is nearly imposible to lose Vs Miracles, Delver, etc... Very interesting creature Misthollow Griffin.

[Koby]

Does it makes sense to play 4 DRS as a sort of plan B (burn out)? Is the 4 NHeirarch and 3 DRS good enough?

[nevilshute]

Does it makes sense to play 4 DRS as a sort of plan B (burn out)? Is the 4 NHeirarch and 3 DRS good enough?

I've played builds with no hierarchs and 4x Deathrites and have generally been pleased. I currently like a 2/3 split of hierarch/shaman as I like having a mana dork consistently and exalted can be really good.

The "burn" plan can be very relevant as part of the plan b (beat down, midrange style) as well as exiling griffins from the yard to perma block can be nice in a pinch so I would always try to run 2 or more Deathrites I think.

[Koby]

That's what I noticed mostly from Jonathan Job's list-- that is, lack of multiple DRS to interact with "dead" Misthollows.

[bakofried]

I just want to say - trying to plan a sideboard which may need to tackle this deck is really, really, really annoying. Congratulations. Arseholes.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[Megadeus]

I just want to say - trying to plan a sideboard which may need to tackle this deck is really, really, really annoying. Congratulations. Arseholes.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

My plan A is generally to stop food chain. Whether it be by discarding it, or having revoker to stop it, that is a plan. Generally a mid range deck will have a better beatdown plan since SoFaI is real good vs this deck. I think discard is pretty alright vs this deck. Nothing amazing, but Food Chain is attempting to assemble a 3 card combo so taking a piece or two can slow them down.

[Tee]

My current list (61 Cards)

2 DRS
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Baleful Strix
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Edric, Spymaster Trest
4 Shardless agent
4 Food chain
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Force of will
1 Misdirection
4 Brainstorm
3 Manipulate Fate
2 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Emrakul

4 Tropical Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Karakas
2 Forest
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant catacombs
2 Polluted Delta

SB
2 Dread of Night
2 Null Rod
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Flusterstorm
4 Obstinate Baloth
2 Grafdigger's Cage

During my Playtest with Edric and baleful strix, I find that it really slowed Opponent down long enough for me to my combo pieces. Opponent often hesitate to use Delver to attack with Edric and strix in play. At the very least Edric and Strix lures a bolt which will otherwise land on your head. Edric makes your Ordinary Shardless agent and deathrite looks deadly and lands you cards with your flyers if opponent doesnt have much flying blockers. Any feedback on my list? Weakness that I encountered so far is an opening hand with no mana dorks and cantrips; an resolved grim lavamancer, Mirran crusader equipped with a Swords of Fire and Ice. I am struggling to cut that one card to 60.

2 hilarious tourney that I have encountered with this deck was that opponent nearly scooped when i landed a turn 1 Dread of Night and a turn 2 null rod against this deck's nemesis DnT; rendered his Thalia, Mother and Vial useless. Against a grindy Mudpost deck, I was on the verge of losing with a Platinum Angel (saving him for 5+ turns as his life was negative due to my griffin beatdown and his ancient tombs), a wurmcoil engine and a darksteel colossus beat down. Things doesnt help when a Revoker joined in the ranks rendering my food chain useless. After sending my armies of griffins,strix,cliques,agents in an desperate attempt to stop darksteel. At 2 life and 9 infect counters, a top deckked Tidespout came to the resuce, much to the dismay of my opponent.:laugh: I suppose this was the only time I missed Venser:tongue:

This deck is really a blast to play, in casual games I tried the 4 colour cascade package (+4 Bloodbriad elves, +2 Diabolic Intent,-2 Edric, -1 Tidespout Tyrant, -1Misdirection,-2 Clique). You would have imagine the look on opponent's face when bloodbraid elves cascade to shardless Agent into Baleful Strix and drew a brainstorm; and within the brainstorm you have the diabolic intent for the combo win.:tongue:

[Obould]

Hi,

Played in a 22 player local tourney yesterday and made myself to the tops again. We played 5 rounds of swiss (3-2, 7th place) and top8 (got myself to top4). My list was almost the same than in the first page of this thread with the following differences: MD -1 verdant catacombs, +1 ancient tomb and side -1 spell pierce, -1 wipe away, +1 ruric, +1 terastodon.

R1 vs. Show and tell with hivemind 2-1 (game 1 won with a natural order-progenitus after he show and tells to emrakul and I shower aethersnipe. I beated with it him to 10 life and then managed to get progenitus online. He got emrakul, but progenitus killed him. G2 he show and telled hivemind and I put emrakul. He pacted. G3 Food chain to emrakul. At some point I had managuys, food chain and a griffin online and couple of lands. Then he show and telled to emrakul and I put nothing. Next turn I natural order to fierce getting emrakul to hand and comboed with griffin netting me extra turn ftw.)

R2 vs. Mono-B Pox 2-1 (G1 turn 3 progenitus with backup dudes on board, The breaking point was when misdirected his sinkhole to his own swamp. G2 drew only managuys and lands and no combo. G3 turn 2 show and tell to emrakul with a managuy on the table.)

R3 vs. ANT 0-2 (G1 had a decent hand, but he duresses in a first couple of turns and got my fows away. In turn 3 he comboed. G2 I mulliganed but drew no counters or fast combo, on his turn 1 he probed and comboed.)

R4 vs. UWR Delver 0-2 (G1 he put a turn 1 delver which flipped while countering my food chain attempts. G2 I flooded hard and delver hitted face.)

R5 vs. UR Delver 2-1 (G1 he counters my food chain attempts and burned my managyus while delver and guide hitted face. G2 turn 2 show and tell to emrakul ftw with a backup counter. G3 he had only a mountain in play and a lavamancer. Burned me hard still trying to get fast kill, but I show and telled turn 3 -countered- and turn 4 which I managed to get through putting empyrial archangel to the board. I was at 10 life and had emrakul in hand, but he could have killed me next turn without angel. Angel was enough this time.)

TOP8
R1 vs. the same ANT 2-0 (G1 he probed me 3 times with phyrexian mana and I hitted him with noble + shaman and got him to around 10-12 life. Then he adnauseamed but it was really bad and he got only few cards and stopped at 2 life, gg. G2 I got turn 2 ruric with natural order.)

R2 vs. BG Loam pox 1-2 (G1 he destroyed my lands and I didn't drew any in many turns. While I drew few lands I was at 2 life and could have food chained to fierce-'snipe-griselbrand, but he had cursed scroll online. G2 I got turn 2 show and tell to omniscience to emrakul. G3 was though, He destroyed my early hand and got bridge on board while factories hitted face. At a point I had 2 lands + 2 fetches in play and natural order + 2 other irrelevant cards in hand. Then he drew hymn and hymned the irrelevant cards away and I was happy because next turn I would have got terastodon, BUT he got also ravens crime taking natural order away :( )

All in all a great tourney and the deck is really fun to play and hard to side against. My version includes many combos so it is quite hard to hate all of them. Also there is a plan C beatdown with griffins with nobles + couple of shamans.

[Elfkid]

Hi there, can be burning tree emisary a good card for this deck? Its a free creature and with a food chain is +5..

Any issues?

[wsurugby10]

Is anyone still playing this deck? What are everyone's opinions on this list Food Griffin - oarsman (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=7232&d=241462)?

20 LANDS
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp

15 CREATURES
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Fierce Empath
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Tidespout Tyrant

21 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Force of Will
3 Manipulate Fate
3 Thoughtseize
1 Misdirection
4 Food Chain

SIDEBOARD
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Duress
3 Flusterstorm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Massacre
1 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus

[chinEsE girl]

Split the finals of a 140 person event for 40 duals with the deck. I'll have a report up soon.

[nevilshute]

Split the finals of a 140 person event for 40 duals with the deck. I'll have a report up soon.

Wow! That's fantastic, can't wait for a report :smile:

I played the deck in two trials at the BoM. Went 4-1 in an 32-man trial and then 5-1 in today's six round trial for byes to next year's BoM :smile: Will also write a report!

[Razorwynd]

Congrats to both of you! I can not wait to hear how things went! I think this deck still has a lot of latent potential…and your results certainly support that. Unfortunately, I have been unable to play the deck recently. Looking forward to being able to in the upcoming weeks.

[chinEsE girl]

Report is up here http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27999-Moving-up-the-Food-Chain-Undefeated-to-a-Top-2-split-at-the-KDM-40-Duals-Tournament&p=810259#post810259

[Razorwynd]

I played the deck in two trials at the BoM. Went 4-1 in an 32-man trial and then 5-1 in today's six round trial for byes to next year's BoM :smile: Will also write a report!
Are you playing the more UG focused lists or touching Black for Thoughtseize, Baleful Strix, and Abrupt Decay?

[Holden1669]

Report is up here http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27999-Moving-up-the-Food-Chain-Undefeated-to-a-Top-2-split-at-the-KDM-40-Duals-Tournament&p=810259#post810259

Nice tournament, nice report. Congrats. I have been considering removing the Wall of Blossoms and putting the second Venser back. Wall blocks sometimes, and cantrips, but as a one-of I think it has less impact than a second Venser to bounce problematic permanents (Pithing Needle, Revoker, Canonist, etc), occasionally (sort of) counter key spells, or save your own Food Chain from an Abrupt Decay or something.

How do you sideboard against BUG? I assume that you bring in the Ancestral Visions and Misdirection but what do you take out? I have been leaving in a few copies of Force of Will against fair decks more often than when I'm playing with something else because the Griffin can mitigate the card disadvantage. But this could be wrong, I don't know.

[chinEsE girl]

Against BUG I side out all of my Forces, I'd rather just have a ton of value creatures after board. In my experience they haven't been able to cast any one spell that stops my, so I feel like you don't need a card like Force of Will against them. In fact, against almost every non - combo deck I end up siding out Force. That's how I approach those kind of matchups.

As for the Wall of Blossoms, it's definitely one of the weakest cards in the deck. The original list my friend had played 2 copies, which I ended up shaving to 1. I still like to have the 1 copy, since if I assemble Tidespout and Griffin when I'm chaining, any Shardless can then be recast over and over until I find the wall, then draw my deck until I find Emrakul, and then take a whole lot of extra turns. 99% of the time that kind of game state is overkill, but I'm glad I still have a way to win any game on the spot regardless of the board state. I haven't come up against it in a game yet, but I could easily see myself in a spot where my opponent has True-Name in play while I'm at 3 or less life, so either I win right now or I die on their turn. Without the wall in your deck, that's really difficult to do.

[DireLemming]

As for the Wall of Blossoms, it's definitely one of the weakest cards in the deck. The original list my friend had played 2 copies, which I ended up shaving to 1. I still like to have the 1 copy, since if I assemble Tidespout and Griffin when I'm chaining, any Shardless can then be recast over and over until I find the wall, then draw my deck until I find Emrakul, and then take a whole lot of extra turns. 99% of the time that kind of game state is overkill, but I'm glad I still have a way to win any game on the spot regardless of the board state. I haven't come up against it in a game yet, but I could easily see myself in a spot where my opponent has True-Name in play while I'm at 3 or less life, so either I win right now or I die on their turn. Without the wall in your deck, that's really difficult to do.
Why not Baleful Strix? Trades with anything, blocks Delver, pitches to force?

[chinEsE girl]

That's actually sounds really good. I've seen lists that play multiple copies, but those lists were also playing a heavier black mana base, and I've been happy with the current mana I have. I'll replace the wall with strix and see how it works

[whienot]

There's always Coiling Oracle if mana is your concern, but Strix seems better.

[nevilshute]

It's a trade off. Wall of Blossoms let's you curve into it via Food Chain with a 1-drop where Strix (and Coiling Oracle - although I think that is too poor once resolved) is clunkier to resolve due to being dual coloured. However, Strix is just a much better card than Wall. Trades with Delver and Goyf, pitches to Force, can even get in with flying and a few exalted triggers every now and again.

It's worth the heavier dedication to black. I still manage to run four basics (2 islands, 1 swamp, 1 forest).

[nevilshute]

So I went to the Bazaar of Moxen in Annecy for the first time. I was playing ANT in the main event but got to play my favorite combo midrange deck in two trials :smile:

One trial was a 32-man single elimination, 5-round tournament that I 4-1'd for a bye to the main event and bunch of boosters. The other was the last big Legacy trial on Sunday for next year's BoM, 6-rounds swiss with some FBB duals and byes for prizes. I 5-1'd* that one, but was actually 5-0 before the last round but my opponent insisted on playing.

*Here’s a link to the decklists on mtgpulse: http://mtgpulse.com/event/16700#235467 Be aware that I didn’t win the tournament. Quentin did. They made a mistake.

I won't go over the 32-man trial in detail but I'll briefly mention that I played against:

Sneak and Show: 2-0
Death and Taxes: 2-0
Miracles: 2-0
MUD: 2-0
Death and Taxes: 1-2

For the trial on Sunday I brought the same list which is:

4x Misthollow Griffin
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
3x Manipulate Fate
1x Misdirection
1x Aethersnipe
4x Food Chain
3x Fierce Empath
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Sylvan Library
3x Deathrite Shaman
3x Baleful Strix
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Griselbrand
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Lim-Dûl's Vault

2x Underground Sea
3x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
2x Island
1x Swamp
1x Forest
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
2x Verdant Catacombs

Now, a caveat at first: this report is drawn from memory and some limited notes.

So, on to the tournament. We were playing 6 rounds of swiss, with no top 8. I believe we were 80 players. There were 2 byes and an FBB Underground Sea for a 6-0 finish. An FBB blue dual and 1 bye for a 5-0-1 finish. And a WB Underground Sea and a bye for a 5-1 finish.

Round one: vs Miracles (2-0)

So I sit down in front of Martin from Argentina. He's a really nice guy who had made the journey from Argentina all the way to France to play in the Bazaar. In game one he wins the dice roll and leads on Volcanic Island -> Sensei's Divining Top. Having just crushed Miracles in the first trial, and just knowing how our deck is pretty well set up to fight them I felt quite relaxed. In game one I lead out with a Manipulate Fate on turn two having a griffin in hand as well as a Food Chain and a Force. Predictably he decides to pierce it. I let that happen and drop a Food Chain on the next turn. He has the force, but I force back. I top deck another Manipulate Fate on the subsequent turn and it resolves. He never finds a way to answer four griffins with a Food Chain out. In game two we fight over one of my combo pieces early on but I have redundancy. He lands a Counterbalance but I have Abrupt Decay. He eventually resolves a Blood Moon but I have a fetchland in play and a basic in hand and am able to get by regardless of the moon. Eventually I get to resolve a Food Chain and a Manipulate in running turns and I have Emrakul in hand. What I like about this matchup is that we have so much time.

Round two: vs UR Delver (2-0)

I'm playing against Felix from Germany. Felix wins the dice roll and we both keep sevens. He's leads on tarn -> volcanic -> Ponder, shuffles, draws and passes the turn. I'm holding a Food Chain, three lands, griffin, force and noble hierarch. My memories from this game are a bit sketchy, but I remember having three Food Chains in the first five turns of the game. Had one in my opener and drew the other two on my second and fourth turn. I run two of them into Dazes which keep Felix honest on one land for several turns. I also draw a Manipulate Fate which he also counters. I decide not to fight over it as I already have a Griffin. I eventually resolve my third Food Chain and a Griffin the next turn. I eventually win through Emrakul while Felix has domed me 3 times with two bolts and a Chain Lightning as his only plays.

I can’t remember game two except that I won through Emrakul again.

Round three: vs Shardless BUG (2-1)

Round three is against Daniel from Spain. I remember seeing his picture holding a playset of fetches on the BoM website earlier during the weekend and think to myself that he’s probably not a half bad player. In game one we go back and forth and I manage to resolve four deathrite shamans during the game (several of which get decayed) which turns out to be pivotal. I eventually combo off with Emrakul. In game two he gets me after a longer grind fest. For game three he mulligans once and I get to combo off without the griffins, making my favorite play of Fierce Empath -> Aethersnipe -> Griselbrand -> Griffin and Emrakul :smile:

Round four: vs Dredge (2-0)

The most ridiculously intense round of magic I had all weekend. I’m playing against Robin, a really nice guy from France. He’s also quite skilled and legacy knowledgeable, a fact I learn when he blind names Food Chain with his therapy after furrowing his brow when I cast a Noble Hierarch with a Tropical Island and a Underground Sea in play. We eventually get to a board state where he has eight 2/2 tokens as well as a 9/9 Golgari Grave Troll. I’m at 17 but have no real pressure. I think I have one griffin in play. He has just therapied and knows I’m holding a Baleful Strix and a Brainstorm. My other card (which he doesn’t know) is Food Chain. I respond with the Brainstorm and draw: Brainstorm, jank, jank. I put back Food Chain with Strix on top. He names Strix. Phew. He doesn’t have another therapy so has to just pass the turn. I draw my strix, play it and draw the Food Chain. I am able to produce four or five mana from here. I play Brainstorm and see three fresh cards: jank, 2x Fierce Empath. GG. I win.
Game two is where it gets heavy. He mulls to six, and I mull to five. My hand of five is pretty solid: Fetchland, Brainstorm, Grafdigger’s Cage, Deathrite Shaman, Food Chain. A few turns later it seems less solid after he has Nature’s Claimed my Cage. I play my shaman and he plays a putrid imp. He then dredges a few times in the following two turns off Stinkweed Imps which he gets doubles of. My shaman exiles an Ichorid and so we dance. I draw my singleton Surgical Extraction and in a pivotal turn I exile his Golgari Grave Troll that is in his grave with my shaman when he tries to go to his draw step. In response he discards the stinkweed imp to his putrid imp. That resolves and I then Surgical Extract it. This buys me some time if not a lot. He has a bridge in his yard and has two 2/2 tokens now. For what seems like forever but is probably more like four or five turns I hover between one and three life. I get a griffin down and chump his one zombie but he gets in with the other and I eat a creature and get up to three before he drops me to one. He gets another zombie off his bridge. I can’t draw anything relevant to save my life. My hand is triple force and Emrakul. I have two more griffins exiled and four lands, but one of them is a fetch which I can’t really use. I draw for the turn… force #4!!! Can’t believe it. At this point we are at like time, except we’ve had an extension due to a deck check. Fortunately for me he doesn’t have access to any dredgers so he can’t really advance his game plan. Finally I draw Food Chain. My heart is racing as I drop it. He knows Emrakul is in my hand from an earlier therapy and he extends his hand!

Okay, 4-0 now.

Round five: vs BURG Control (2-1).

In round five I play Bertrand. I’ve seen he’s playing some funky control deck with Jaces and Badlands when being seated next to him during earlier rounds. I don’t remember that much from how these games play out but in game one he basically watches me go off over two turns with knowledge of my hand. I don’t think he could have done anything about it, but he didn’t seem to fully realize what was happening until the griffins went flying to and fro existence. Game two I lose to Liliana and Jace. I do see a Pithing Needle which names Food Chain… shh, don’t say anything. Game three is tight but I squeeze it out with Emrakul.

Round six: vs BUG Delver (1-2).

Playing against Quentin and he’s on BUG delver. A matchup I’m not particularly well geared for. No Baloths in the sideboard and I knew it was going to be a tough game. There’s a pretty big difference in prize payout between a 6-0 and a 5-1 finish where 5-0-1 is closer to 6-0 than 5-1 so I ask if he wants to split. After long deliberation he says he does not as he’s confident that he’s the favorite. Sadly he isn’t wrong and after a grindy game one I’m down 0-1. I take game two but he basically throws it away. I have Fierce Empath and a Baleful Strix in play and he has like a goyfs and a deathrite and has just resolved Liliana, I’m at 18 life. He has two open mana sources. I have four open mana. I cast Food Chain. He thinks for a while and then responds by tapping a land and casting Disfigure on the Empath. Food Chain resolves. I evoke in Aethersnipe and bounce his Liliana, I then sack the Aethersnipe for green and cast another empathy and get griselbrand. I activate and draw the win. My friend, who was sitting next to Quentin, would tell me after the round that Quentin was holding an Abrupt Decay which he could have cast on Food Chain if he hadn’t disfigured my empath.

For game three he seems a bit flustered. But it’s a grindy game and in the end I just succumb to goyfs and deathrites.

So, all in all I'm extremely pleased with how the deck performed. I'm also getting somewhat painfully aware that the deck is no longer a secret and people are learning how to play against it.

[Obould]

Great to see this deck is positioning well in tournaments. AND there are three different versions! "Bounce without fierce empaths", "Fierce-snipe-griselbrand" and "natural food chain with S&T sidetech" that I'm also using. All these versions have different pros and cons so it is quite hard to hate before you know what version it is.

[Drizzy]

Went to a small event today (19 players with winner receiving UG Sea and Tundra for 2nd place) with following list:


Main

3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Underground Sea
2x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
3x Island
2x Forest

4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Baleful Strix
4x Shardless Agent

4x Food Chain
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Fierce Empath
1x Sylvan Library

4x Force of Will
4x Misthollow Griffin
4x Brainstorm
3x Manipulate Fate
1x Misdirection
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Tidespout Tyrant

1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


SB

3x Thoughtseize
2x Golgari Charm
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Submerge
1x Mindbreak Trap
1x Pithing Needle
1x Misdirection
1x Engineered Explosives



Played against following decks:

Death & Taxes 1-2
*Bye*
BUG Delver 2-1
BUG Delver 2-0
Belcher ID (played 2 games for fun and won both of them)

Top 8:
Death & Taxes 1-2

My build wasn't tested at all and hadn't really played with the deck before the tournament so everything went fairly well considering that. The D&T match up was tougher than I thought, although I didn't draw any of my Golgari Charms during any of the the games. The mana denial along with high pressure and hatebears (Thalia, Revoker, Canonist, Spirit) is surprisingly good, even though we are mostly comboing with creatures. They are also fairly well equipped to fight the fair game because of equipment, mother of runes and their usual tricks.

BUG delver was another story though. Most of the time I could just stall with Strix and pals until I could find the combo or outvalue them with Griffins and Agents. Also the usual Misdirection exiling griffin on their Hymn never gets old. Lost one game against double delver nut start.

Manabase was bit wierd with me not having the Deltas (had to play the Tarns) so couldn't really play the basic swamp. With Strixes in the deck and quite heavy emphasis on black sideboard cards I think that swamp would be really good addition in the deck. I found that 3 pieces of combo win cons (Empath, Tyrant, Emrakul) were enough. Venser wasn't doing much for me since I was usually tapping out almost every turn so usually there weren't any time to cast him.

I'm definitely going to try and refine the deck further in my local meta.

[nevilshute]

So, after losing repeatedly to ANT (which has always been one of this deck's worst matchups) I've decided to splash white via a singleton Savannah and play some Meddling Mages in the sideboard. I've been debating with myself whether or not to just give up the matchup and consign to being the underdog, but there's too much storm in my meta for such an approach to make sense.

My sideboard cards against storm now consist of:

2x Meddling Mage
2x Flusterstorm
3x Thoughtseize
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Grafdigger's Cage

[mith]

Played Losset's list at our local weekly Legacy tournament. Four rounds, didn't even lose a game. Beat UWR Delver, UW Stoneforge, Nic-Fit, and Miracles.

There are times where I wonder if this deck even needs the Foodchains/Combo-pieces. Exiling three Griffins and then beating down has been value-town every time.

[kingtk3]

Can you give me a link to the list?

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

[Monkey_Island]

Hi everybody!

I recently picked up the deck and I am having a blast with it! Itried the Shardless and the Fierce version and I am leaning toward the 2nd so far. Here is the list I used to win a local tourney last week-end:


2 Island
2 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
1 Karakas

4 Food Chain
1 Sylvan Library

4 Brainstorm
4 Force Of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Manipulate Fate

4 Misthollow Griffin
3 Baleful Strix
3 Fierce Empath
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Birds Of Paradise
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Tidesporut Tyrant
1 Emrakul, The Aeons torn

3 Flusterstorm
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Golgari Charm
1 Misdirection
1 Krosan Grip

Birds of Paradise was awesome all day and I never wish I had a Noble Hierarch in its place. Being able to produce black consistently through Wasteland has been crucial during the day.
I feel that Tyrant should be Aethersnipe...
Concerning my SB, Deluge has been an all star all day, the card is amazing. It would be hard for me to go back to a UG version for this card alone!
I was considering adding a Lim-Dul's Vault maybe in place of an Empath. What are your thoughts on this card?

Cheers!

[chinEsE girl]

I'm glad to see everyone's been having so much success with this deck lately. And with a bunch of slightly different variations too! Makes me excited to see what will happen with the deck as we get through the summer months.

While I've seen a lot of people argue for fierce empath lately, I'm still sticking with good old shardless agent. It's been pretty spectacular so far for me, and as I've stated before I hate playing cards like empath with as pure bricks when you don't have a food chain in play. So this is where I'm at currently;

4 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Coiling Oracle
4 Shardless Agent
2 Vendillion Clique
4 Misthollow Griffin
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn

4 Brainstorm
1 Sylvan Library
3 Manipulate Fate
4 Food Chain
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection

4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Karakas

4 Meddling Mage
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Misdirection

I've made just a few changes to my maindeck, mostly the oracle instead of wall. I know some people love strix, but i love turn 1 basic forest -> mana dork, so I'd rather have the oracle. The sideboard has the mages I talked about in my report, as well as some abrupt decays since I'm tired of losing to stupid delvers. I don't know if the Jitte is good or not, but I want to at least try it out. It's mostly there as a "fuck you" to elves, but it's also good against any other random creature decks. If the Jitte idea doesn't pan out it will just morph into the 3rd copy of decay.

If anyone else has new idea's for cards people haven't mentioned in the thread yet, I'd love to hear them.

[apon]

Could you tell us your sb tech with main pairings? Thanks


Enviado desde mi iPhone con Tapatalk

[Cacks]

Hi All. Has anyone considered a red splash for imperial recruiter in this deck? Without food chain it still picks up utility creatures for value (although one would want to tweak the balance of the most useful 2 power creatures as one-ofs, for example, venser, eternal witness, muldrifter etc). With a food chain it is a turbo tutor - finding the creature and providing 4 mana to cast it. And with a fierce empath in the deck it gives the option of:

recruiter for recruiter & sac (4 mana),
repeat for the next 2 recruiters (up to 6 mana),
final recruiter for empath and sac (7 mana),
empath for 8 drop (griselbrand or tyrant) and sac (8 mana)
cast 8 drop and feel smug.

So recruiter and food chain is a two card combo costing 3 + 3 mana?

I appreciate, however, that there may be card availability limitations, but wondered if anyone has considered / tried anything like this?

[Jay_Gatz]

Went 3-0 with Eric's new list at my local weekly last night playing against dead-guy, tezzeret and lands. Not the best representation of the meta but the deck performed excellently. I love the jitte, it won me a game hands down against dead guy and was great in testing against d&t. Against dead guy I really wanted to have both shardless and EE in the deck but I wasn't sure if it was worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Obould]

Went 3-0 with Eric's new list at my local weekly last night playing against dead-guy, tezzeret and lands. Not the best representation of the meta but the deck performed excellently. I love the jitte, it won me a game hands down against dead guy and was great in testing against d&t. Against dead guy I really wanted to have both shardless and EE in the deck but I wasn't sure if it was worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Jitte is quite nice in some MUs. I have tried a beatdown sidetech with discard, tarmogoyfs, abrupt decays and 2 jittes + something in place of show and tell sidetech. It was ok, but I like show and tell more, at the moment at least :D Maybe it is better with shardless agent MD (I have ordered those so I might test them in place of fierce empath and with beatdown sb). There are just so many options to play with. Maybe shardless food chain with natural order MD and more beatdown sb..

EDIT:

Hi All. Has anyone considered a red splash for imperial recruiter in this deck? Without food chain it still picks up utility creatures for value (although one would want to tweak the balance of the most useful 2 power creatures as one-ofs, for example, venser, eternal witness, muldrifter etc). With a food chain it is a turbo tutor - finding the creature and providing 4 mana to cast it. And with a fierce empath in the deck it gives the option of:

recruiter for recruiter & sac (4 mana),
repeat for the next 2 recruiters (up to 6 mana),
final recruiter for empath and sac (7 mana),
empath for 8 drop (griselbrand or tyrant) and sac (8 mana)
cast 8 drop and feel smug.

So recruiter and food chain is a two card combo costing 3 + 3 mana?

I appreciate, however, that there may be card availability limitations, but wondered if anyone has considered / tried anything like this?

I think adding red is not going to make this deck better. If you have food chain out you can fierce empath to 8cmc monster if you have 3+3 mana. So red just saves you 3 mana and in this case a turn, but you lose slots for 4 recruiter. But if you want to try with red I would also test bloodbraid elf. Maybe some 1-off utility guys, cascade-guys and food chain combo in place of some protection? Protection could be in the sb.. In other words: test with red and tell us the results :D

[WarpWorld]

Hi All. Has anyone considered a red splash for imperial recruiter in this deck? Without food chain it still picks up utility creatures for value (although one would want to tweak the balance of the most useful 2 power creatures as one-ofs, for example, venser, eternal witness, muldrifter etc). With a food chain it is a turbo tutor - finding the creature and providing 4 mana to cast it. And with a fierce empath in the deck it gives the option of:

recruiter for recruiter & sac (4 mana),
repeat for the next 2 recruiters (up to 6 mana),
final recruiter for empath and sac (7 mana),
empath for 8 drop (griselbrand or tyrant) and sac (8 mana)
cast 8 drop and feel smug.

So recruiter and food chain is a two card combo costing 3 + 3 mana?

I appreciate, however, that there may be card availability limitations, but wondered if anyone has considered / tried anything like this?

Imperial Recruiter is really good as a food chain card and was discussed in the old thread most lists went RUG and played 4 of Phantasmal Image. It allowed you to chain IR->PI copy IR get another IR then repeat. The last one got Fierce Empath into Emrakul for the win.

Thoughts, comments and questions are always welcome.

[nevilshute]

Imperial Recruiter is really good as a food chain card and was discussed in the old thread most lists went RUG and played 4 of Phantasmal Image. It allowed you to chain IR->PI copy IR get another IR then repeat. The last one got Fierce Empath into Emrakul for the win.

Thoughts, comments and questions are always welcome.

Admittedly I have never tried playing with Recruiters. While the card in itself has a lot of synergy with Food Chain it just seems to me that red as a colour is quite dissynergistic with what the deck is trying to do. Replacing black with red and playing RUG Food Chain seems like it would turn the deck into a much more fragile combo deck compared to what BUG offers and worsen our matchup against Death and Taxes, and basically anything with Canonist and/or revokers significantly. And if we decide to splash and play BURG Food Chain then I think our mana base is going to be too greedy. I can just imagine fanning open my starting hand and seeing Island, Volcanic Island, Deathrite Shaman and just shedding a tear.

Long story short: I think Imperial Recruiters will give the deck more, but not quicker paths to a combo victory. The opportunity cost for this is that it makes the midrange elements of the deck significantly worse by cluttering up the deck with more cards that are situationally much weaker than Baleful Strix, Deathrite Shamans and Abrupt Decay - which I imagine would be cards that - at least to an extent - would be hard to support once we decide to run red.

But, like I said, I haven't tested it out for myself and probably won't get to as I can't be bothered to get a hold of those recruiters. If someone makes a strong enough case I'll borrow them and try it out though :smile:

Would also love to hear some actual testing experience with them as, like I said, they seem synergistic in a vacuum but I'm skeptical on how well the Food Chain deck they're in is actually going to perform.

[rancOr_]

@chinEsE girl/others:

In the UG(b) list, what are your opinions about the Venser and the 2drop slot(oracle,wall,..) I personally feel like they dont contribute that much. The Venser is just a situational one off but you have 2 Tidespout Tyrant's alrdy for bouncing.
I feel like maybe we can replace them for something like 2 Jace TMS.. It seems much better and it combo's really well with the deck too. U alrdy play alot of basics to support it, together with 7 mana guys and there is also the synergy with Shardless Agent. It can also bounce a Revoker,E canonist ,.. when needed. For the rest I really like the list, it has great potential. I'm still playing A. Visions in the sideboard as I dont feel the need to play Meddling Mages. I think we can beat combo just by playing like 3 flusterstorm(maybe a 4th one?) and 3th Vendilion Clique etc sideboard. The visions are so insane against almost all decks where u would normally board out your FoW's. Greetings-

[chinEsE girl]

Hey rancOr,

I'm not sure if I've mentioned this on the source anywhere, but I have talked to people in person about the "meh" feeling with venser. I do agree that it's the softest card in my list right now, although it's been Ok at least so it's stuck around. On the other hand, that Jace idea seems super interesting. I'm going to try one in place of the venser and see how it works. As for the 2 drop creature, I know it's not super high impact, but I still like knowing that once I can combo with Tidespout, having the 2 drop means that it or any shardless agent instantly wins the game. It certainly could be cut if something else proves to be better.

As for the visions thing, I won't argue how good it is against some decks. That the reason I put it in my sideboard in the first place. But at least for my meta, it just wasn't pulling it's weight. It could definitely reenter my sideboard in the future, but right now I dont feel like I need it.

[Obould]

@chinEsE girl/others:
I feel like maybe we can replace them for something like 2 Jace TMS.. It seems much better and it combo's really well with the deck too. U alrdy play alot of basics to support it, together with 7 mana guys and there is also the synergy with Shardless Agent. It can also bounce a Revoker,E canonist ,.. when needed. For the rest I really like the list, it has great potential.

Hi,

If I remember right there was some discussion (or mentions at least) about Jace TMS in the old thread. If I manage to get one I definitely want to try it as a 1-off. Like you said, it searches for combo pieces, bounce problematic creatures and it is also a win-con if things go south.

[Monkey_Island]

While it's true that 1 (or 2) Venser is situational, I think that replacing it by a Jace (or 2) could lower the creature count too much. Having a Food Chain with a 3 drop (or a 2 drop + 1 mana) on the field + Venser in hand is really great for 2-1ing the opponent during his turn and buying precious time whereas a Jace in the same situation requires you to be tapped out on your turn. Furthermore, the element of surprise coming with the flash creatures are awesome.
But Jace remains Jace and it may be of course a good choice!

[death]

Why was Natural Order discarded from the main deck? If edict effects are problematic, there's always little green men in the deck, also fetch > Dryad Arbor.

[Obould]

Why was Natural Order discarded from the main deck? If edict effects are problematic, there's always little green men in the deck, also fetch > Dryad Arbor.

Hi,

I'm using food chain + natural order main and show and tell in side. Turn 2 progenitus is quite nice or turn 3 progenitus with a guy. My current list:

Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Ancient Tomb
2 Forest
2 Island

Creatures
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Fierce Empath
1 AEthersnipe
1 Griselbrand
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Progenitus
2 Birds of Paradise

Spells
4 Food Chain
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Misdirection
4 Natural Order
3 Manipulate Fate

Sideboard
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Show and Tell
2 Omniscience
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Terastodon

[nevilshute]

While it's true that 1 (or 2) Venser is situational, I think that replacing it by a Jace (or 2) could lower the creature count too much. Having a Food Chain with a 3 drop (or a 2 drop + 1 mana) on the field + Venser in hand is really great for 2-1ing the opponent during his turn and buying precious time whereas a Jace in the same situation requires you to be tapped out on your turn. Furthermore, the element of surprise coming with the flash creatures are awesome.
But Jace remains Jace and it may be of course a good choice!

This deck with NO or without NO are really two different things. With the NO package the grind-plan becomes much less viable as you aren't able to fit in as many midrange tools (Baleful Strix, Abrupt Decay etc) if you are trying to keep the two different combo elements viable at the same time. On the other hand it gives the deck two combo axes which can be harder to fight... Like say you combo off game one with Food Chain and they then board in hate to hit the Food Chain like Revoker and Krosan Grip only to see you cast Natural Order on turn 3 for a Progenitus in game two...

So, really, it depends on what kind of strategy you want to play out and what kind of options you prefer to have.

One hypothesis would be that for a large tournament where no one knows you, then running the NO plan becomes better than it would be in your local meta. This is due to people not knowing what they're in for and being overwhelmed by the different combos. I'm not sure if that's entirely correct. Having run both versions of the deck I currently prefer the grindier version with no NO plan as it leaves the deck with more room to maneuvre at the cost of being less explosive but that's just me.

Regarding Jace, I used to play a singleton Jace way back in the day but gave it up a long time ago. I think it might be time to try him out again, maybe as a two of :smile:

[death]

The NO Pro package will speed up the deck quite a bit since it's a one-card combo compared to Food Chain which is a 2/3-card combo. Why do more find the grindier version viable? The deck isn't a control deck, shouldn't it be up to speed with other combo decks? And what is Griselbrand's role that Fierce Empath > Emrakul/Progenitus doesn't already fill. It's not like you have life points to spare once you go off to use his ability since this is slower than Reanimator/Dredge/Show n' Tell and less consistent.

[Smea.gol.lum]

Have you already tried out Plunge into Darkness??
It digs for Food Chain while also removing the Griffins that run across.

[militiaman89]

Has anyone tried foresight from alliance? is manipulate fate for any 3 cards and u still get to draw a card can be used to dodge cabal therapy etc..

[death]

Have you already tried out Plunge into Darkness??
It digs for Food Chain while also removing the Griffins that run across.

Lim-Dûl's Vault is better since it's a blue card and you only pay 1 life per 5 cards. Digging for one of the 4-of card (Food Chain) in a 60-card deck I imagine can be an onerous task.
Not to mention the risk of inadvertently removing your win condition (Emrakul/fatty) from the top X cards of your library.


Has anyone tried foresight from alliance? is manipulate fate for any 3 cards and u still get to draw a card can be used to dodge cabal therapy etc..

They can still therapy you on their main phase.

[militiaman89]

Lim-Dûl's Vault is better since it's a blue card and you only pay 1 life per 5 cards. Digging for one of the 4-of card (Food Chain) in a 60-card deck I imagine can be an onerous task.
Not to mention the risk of inadvertently removing your win condition (Emrakul/fatty) from the top X cards of your library.



They can still therapy you on their main phase.

I was saying playing a mixture of them so they don't know which one to name.

[nevilshute]

The NO Pro package will speed up the deck quite a bit since it's a one-card combo compared to Food Chain which is a 2/3-card combo. Why do more find the grindier version viable? The deck isn't a control deck, shouldn't it be up to speed with other combo decks? And what is Griselbrand's role that Fierce Empath > Emrakul/Progenitus doesn't already fill. It's not like you have life points to spare once you go off to use his ability since this is slower than Reanimator/Dredge/Show n' Tell and less consistent.

1: The grindier version gives the deck an option that most other combo decks don't have which is the ability to actually play the long game through hate by having a "real" midrange plan with value creatures like deathrite shaman, baleful strix, shardless agent and even the griffins. If you sacrifice the midrange plan for the NO plan you will get a more explosive combo deck, sure, but you will lose your ability to play the long game when your combo options get shut down through hate or counter magic.

Which is better? The way I see it, if you roll back the midrange strategy in order to have more explosiveness in your combo plan you will end up with a slow and comparatively weak deck. NO for progenitus on turn 2 will be great many, but far from all of the times you pull it off. Food Chain is a stronger combo but requires more set up. Having both can make it hard(er) for opponents to hate the deck out. Still I think the deck will be more capable of making a deep run if it's set up as part midrange part combo. From experience the combo(s) alone will be too clunky and slow to set up / easy to disrupt before we are dead if we don't have a way to fight the long game through creatures and removal.

2: Griselbrand is a win condition in and of himself and can draw you into the pieces you are missing. If you already have a food chain and a griffin for infi mana then of course a fierce empath will never find griselbrand but always emrakul. Griselbrand gets a place in the deck because you can get him into play with a food chain but without a griffin. This is explained in the primer.

You could replace griselbrand with any 8-drop but I believe him to be the best there is when we don't have infinite mana.

[Obould]

At the moment I'm trying a hybrid version:

Lands:
4 misty rainforest
4 wooded foothills
1 verdant catacombs
1 bayou
3 tropical island
3 island
2 forest
1 dryad arbor
1 ancient tomb

Creatures:
3 noble hierarch
2 birds of paradise
2 deathrite shaman
4 shardless agent
3 misthollow griffin
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
1 progenitus
1 griselbrand
1 fierce empath
1 aethersnipe

Others:
4 food chain
4 natural order
4 force of will
1 misdirection
1 sylvan library
4 brainstorm
3 manipulate fate

Sideboard:
show and tell -tech
OR
4 tarmogoyf
2 jitte
counters
other hate

This version is a little bit slower than my usual full-combo, but this one has a better late game. Haven't tested this version much though. Also the fierce- 'snipe-griselbrand could be something else.

[korfits]

So i'm new to this thread and this deck. I'm trying to collect the deck and i'm actually fairly close. I wan't to play it as a none black version (so no deathrite) and i'm thinking of going white instead or meddeling mage, swords to plowshare and rest in peace (to exile my griffins if they get bolted). What do you do against artifacts? such as BU tezzeret og MUD. The lodestone golem is pretty hard to handle since it shuts down the griffin/food chain combo. Any ideas?
Thanks!

[Tyrio]

Qasali pridemage maybe? You can cascade into it and it's a decent beater, esp with hierarch.

Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk

[Seven_six]

So i'm new to this thread and this deck. I'm trying to collect the deck and i'm actually fairly close. I wan't to play it as a none black version (so no deathrite) and i'm thinking of going white instead or meddeling mage, swords to plowshare and rest in peace (to exile my griffins if they get bolted). What do you do against artifacts? such as BU tezzeret og MUD. The lodestone golem is pretty hard to handle since it shuts down the griffin/food chain combo. Any ideas?
Thanks!

I personally went with a more black variant with baleful strix in the two drop slot and a notion thief in the board. Death rite is just so good - the extra toughness actually makes a big difference and each ability he adds makes him a threat. That being said your removal options for artifacts in green white would be creatures: quasali pridemage, harmonic sliver; spells: natures claim, disenchant, krosan grip to name a few. Still I would recommend sticking with the black splash!

[HSCK]

Food Chain

Creatures: 21
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Aethersnipe
1 Wall of Blossoms
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Fierce Empath
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
4 Misthollow Griffin

Spells: 11
1 Misdirection
2 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

Combo: 7
3 Manipulate Fate
4 Food Chain

Lands: 21
1 Swamp
2 Forest
3 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta

Sideboard:
1 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Flusterstorm
2 Swan Song
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Show and Tell
3 Ancestral Vision


So I've been testing this variant without Hierarchs but with Shardless Agent. My Cascades feel a bit better and having Empath to start a Food Chain is nice vs. the Hierarch versions that typically eschew it.

[nevilshute]

Food Chain

Creatures: 21
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Aethersnipe
1 Wall of Blossoms
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Fierce Empath
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
4 Misthollow Griffin

Spells: 11
1 Misdirection
2 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

Combo: 7
3 Manipulate Fate
4 Food Chain

Lands: 21
1 Swamp
2 Forest
3 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta

Sideboard:
1 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Flusterstorm
2 Swan Song
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Show and Tell
3 Ancestral Vision


So I've been testing this variant without Hierarchs but with Shardless Agent. My Cascades feel a bit better and having Empath to start a Food Chain is nice vs. the Hierarch versions that typically eschew it.

Out of curiousity, how does the Show and Tells out of the sideboard work out? It would seem to me, that having just three worthwhile fatties to Show and Tell in (Emmy, Griselbrand and Tyrant) is a far cry from being enough to make that a reliable plan. I guess the two Empaths figure somewhere in the equation as you can tutor up a fatty but that makes for a 6cmc Show and Tell.

[GoblinZ]

I just pick up all the pieces execpt 3 manipulate fates recently, against what match-up do you think you would take the SNT transformation?

[Obould]

With my combo oriented list I bring S&T in against faster decks (combo, affinity, maybe burn) and at least bug with abrupt decay. Also if I'm suspecting hate cards like medling mage, revoker etc. to make a surprise factor. Also against other show and tell decks I bring fatties in but not show and tell.

[HSCK]

I also like Show and Tell against Miracles to really push at them.

[GoblinZ]

Although I have not tested miracle match-up, I guess this mu is favorable for us. Isn't SNT package too redundant?

I don't think against storm SNT is a good plan, because SNT into Emrakul does not win you the game actually.

I agree that against Bug or other faster deck like affinity or maybe goblin SNT plan seems good, but again maybe we can play more grinding game instead of leaving too much room for SNT transformation in SB.

[Obould]

Although I have not tested miracle match-up, I guess this mu is favorable for us. Isn't SNT package too redundant?

I don't think against storm SNT is a good plan, because SNT into Emrakul does not win you the game actually.

I agree that against Bug or other faster deck like affinity or maybe goblin SNT plan seems good, but again maybe we can play more grinding game instead of leaving too much room for SNT transformation in SB.

Against ANT I have won games with turn 2 or 3 Ruric from show and tell or natural order (I play 3 ancient tombs + 8 first turn managuys). Also I have omnisciense so Emrakul can win because of extra turn. But I agree that fast and resilient combo is quite a bad match up.

[HSCK]

Has anyone checked out the Cascade version by CalebD? Splashes a touch of red for 3 Bloodbraids and MD Ancestral Visions.

[kingtk3]

Do you have a list of reference? I'm very fond of rug cascade (waterfall in the development session) and it would be intriguing to put a combo in the deck!

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

[wsurugby10]

I too would like to see this thread from CalebD.

[korfits]

So I was looking at some spoilers from m15. What do you think about genisis hydra? You can pay your hole deck seize as x then but emrakrul into play and have two really huge creatures I play at one time? Why would that be good and why would that be bad?

[DireLemming]

Emrakrul's timewalk is usually worth more than another (summoning sick) body.

[HSCK]

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/7167167

I have not had a good time testing Food Chain so far though.

[XdeckX]

Is anyone working on a Bant version of this deck?

[nevilshute]

Is anyone working on a Bant version of this deck?

What would be your primary arguments for running bant instead of bug? :smile:

[korfits]

White got some Good Cards. Swords to plowshares, gadok teek, meddeling mage and you could bord in leyline of sanctity or even board in a helm/rip combo. Rip allso helps Griffin if it gets bolted.

[nevilshute]

White got some Good Cards. Swords to plowshares, gadok teek, meddeling mage and you could bord in leyline of sanctity or even board in a helm/rip combo. Rip allso helps Griffin if it gets bolted.

I just think the opportunity cost of not splashing black is too high. Replacing Deathrite with Noble Hierarch, replacing Abrupt Decay with Swords to Plowshares and to a lesser extent replacing Baleful Strix with, what? Coiling Oracle?

What I've done is actually replace a Tropical Island for a Savannah in the main and I'm running 2 Meddling Mages and 1 Gaddock Teeg out of the sideboard. The gives us the a significant boost against combo. I can see why you would want Rest in Peace, but I think the gain from playing Deathrite is too high and deathrite obviously gets nutered with RiP.

[korfits]

Yeah deathrite plus rip is horrible I know. But since I want to play a version without deathrite I should be fine with rip

[nevilshute]

Sure,

If you have decided that you want to play bant instead of bug. I was merely trying to argue why that is a bad idea to begin with :smile:

[korfits]

Haha. Well I didn't post the Bant post. But I kinda like the Bant colors. And I really dislike black. So im more then fine trying to get other options. What about an angel of serenity, you could exile her to food chain when her trigger is on the stack.

[HSCK]

What would be the point of that? And why would you want Gaddock Teeg ever? Bant seems super inferior.

[nevilshute]

Teeg is in my board instead of Meddling Mage number three. Solely against storm which I find to be a really poor matchup. I'm testing though, so might end up dropping him again.

But yes, I agree that Bant seems strictly inferior

[korfits]

Well I'm just trying to come with suggestions for another version. Trying not to get hung up on anything specific

[rancOr_]

This is the build im playing now:

4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
3 Island
2 Forest
4 Food Chain
3 Manipulate Fate
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Tidespout Tyrant
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Shardless Agent
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sylvan Library
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Misdirection
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Baleful Strix
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 4 Ancestral Vision

The Jace works out really good like I said before. I like everything about the list so far,except im not such a fan of Misdirection..
Ever since I started playing Food Chain it was one of the slots I didnt really like. I see most lists run it as a one off but is it really needed?
I am inclined to change it to a Sylvan Library which is really really good in this deck ..

Greetings-

[TheRedBaron]

Thoughts on a 4-color variant? Trying this out right now. Started off with Strict BUG version... Didn't like LDV, don't like Sylvan Library either. So I opted for Top... W splash mainly for Enlightened Tutor... Only real problems I had so far was against Shardless BUG and Storm decks.

I'm currently testing this new build, had to adjust mana:


4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Baleful Strix
3 Fierce Empath
4 Misthallow Griffin
1 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul the Aeons Torn
1 Tidespout Tyrant

4 Brainstorn
4 Force of Will
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Misdirection
2 Spell Pierce

3 Manipulate Fate

4 Food Chain
1 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Ancient Tomb

//Sideboard
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Misdirection
1 Divert
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Grafdigger's Cage


Might just put Natural Order/Progenitus on board

Thoughts

[nevilshute]

How is the Enlightened Tutor working out? My worry with it is, having a card disadvantage tutor that can only tutor up one part of our three-card combo. I agree that LDV is not great, but I like it being able to search up which ever piece we need. That being said, it could definitely be cut without damaging the deck's ability to function.

Having white in your mana base ups our chances against storm which is a notoriously poor matchup so I'm all for that. But I do that with just a single Savannah in the main and some hatebears in the sideboard.

[TheRedBaron]

How is the Enlightened Tutor working out? My worry with it is, having a card disadvantage tutor that can only tutor up one part of our three-card combo. I agree that LDV is not great, but I like it being able to search up which ever piece we need. That being said, it could definitely be cut without damaging the deck's ability to function.

Having white in your mana base ups our chances against storm which is a notoriously poor matchup so I'm all for that. But I do that with just a single Savannah in the main and some hatebears in the sideboard.

Well, I'm liking Etutor, Ideally, you can T1: etutor for chain on EoT or turn 1 mana dork, T2: Manipulate fate and still EoT for food chain...

At worst etutor gets u a top or library... I actually baited a FoW, had food chain in Hand and casted (was going to get top) but he FoW'ed ;)

The other thing Etutor does is allow you to run incredibly diverse hate on SB, I board a 3rd with silver bullets... An idea to improve effeciency is running an artifact Fatty MD, like Blightsteel Colossuss... I even contemplated 1 Jitte on Board to grab for griffin beats (or a SofI)... IMO, the reach with Etutor pays for itself.

Also, I tutored up a food chain with top in Play and popped it to draw > cast > win... One can do this with brainstorm... Plus it gives you some resliency vs. Abrupt Decay and BUG decks

I didn't like only 1 Savannah though, cause Shardless BUG player ate my lunch with Wasteland

I love LDV, but, just saying for same amount of mana Top + Etutor, you can get Food Chain into your hand.

[wsurugby10]

Caleb Durward posted some Food Chain videos today. http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-calebd-legacy-food-chain-combo/

[HSCK]

Not sure how much I like the deck with Soul win con vs. Tidespout, though he does make a strong case. It'd be interesting to see both in the same deck with an Empath though.

[Seven_six]

Seeing as he is running red for bloodbraid elf - why not use purphoros as a win con? Creature when cast (ie: can use food chain mana to cast) Indestructible enchant when hits the table(ie no plow) and will win off a single griffon/food chain.

Four colours does seem a bit much - with only 3 you can rely on basics more....

[OCPunisher]

Seeing as he is running red for bloodbraid elf - why not use purphoros as a win con? Creature when cast (ie: can use food chain mana to cast) Indestructible enchant when hits the table(ie no plow) and will win off a single griffon/food chain.

Four colours does seem a bit much - with only 3 you can rely on basics more....
I like that idea...you could even cast Purphoros sans combo for those times when you need extra reach.

[korfits]

It's just a shame that you can't fetch him with an fierce empath. So you need to draw him naturally. I know his deck didn't run the empath. And with all his cascade it would likely just end on the button of the deck.

Then you would need something like enlightened tutor to fetch him or a food chain

[Seven_six]

It's just a shame that you can't fetch him with an fierce empath. So you need to draw him naturally. I know his deck didn't run the empath. And with all his cascade it would likely just end on the button of the deck.

Then you would need something like enlightened tutor to fetch him or a food chain

For a fetch I am trying out 3 living wish main. One misthollow in board, one purphoros and some other silver bullet creatures. Swapped the noble hierarchs for birds of paradise to have better mana access, and dropped down to two manip fate. I will test it out and see if it is good or terribad!

[OCPunisher]

For a fetch I am trying out 3 living wish main. One misthollow in board, one purphoros and some other silver bullet creatures. Swapped the noble hierarchs for birds of paradise to have better mana access, and dropped down to two manip fate. I will test it out and see if it is good or terribad!
Could you post a sample list for something like this?

[XdeckX]

Finally got a chance to play the FoodChain deck in a tournament (number of tournaments is really low atm...)

I ran this list:

3 noble hierarch
3 deathrite shaman
3 baleful strix
3 shardless agent
4 misthollow griffin
2 vendilion clique
1 soul of the harvest
1 tidespout tyrant
1 emrakul

4 food chain
1 sylvan library

3 manipulate fate
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
3 abrupt decay

2 bayou
2 underground sea
3 tropical island
1 savannah
4 misty rainforest
2 polluted delta
2 verdant catacombs
2 island
1 forest
1 swamp
//
3 meddling mage
3 flusterstorm
2 phyrexian revoker
2 grafdiggers cage
2 golgari charm
1 venser shaper savant
1 massacre
1 scavenging ooze


All in all pretty stock BUG list. It got me to 1st place nontheless :)

r1 vs UWR Delver.
G1 i manage to finish him with combat damage in a close game
G2 he goes t1 delver, t2 delver, t3 upkeep Brainstorm. I die quickly
G3 goes to extra turns where on t4 I have sylvan library and food chain available and not much else. library shows me griffin, soul and blue card for my fow. I draw my deck bounce his board and get the t5 with emrakul. so close :P

r2 vs BWr planeswalker
it some weird homebrew planeswalker deck with Sorin, liliana, elspeth knight errant, elspeth tirell, ajani and all sorts of destruction and removal.
g1 I die after getting my island vindicated (which prevented me from doing cool stuff)
g2 i combo him on turn 4
g3 I beat, he beats, he removes threats, smallpoxes 2-3 times. I topdeck lands and continue the beats where he stalls on 2 lands. After getting his 3d land I counter his Crucible and take it home.

r3 vs merfolk
g1 combo on turn 4
g2 combo on turn 5
easy game

r4 vs belcher. We ID since we drove up together but play for fun
g1 I die
g2 i get turn 2 revoker, turn 3 meddling mage, counter his burning wish
g3 he gets 10 gobs on turn 2. I cascade shardless agent into nothing and die.

Top4 split the prizes. I get a Windswept heath and 2 Wear/Tear for my troubles.

The deck is so much fun to play although my list is in need of rebuild. Emrakul is win more, decays might be better in the sideboard (eventough there are like a billion targets for them.

[rancOr_]

@XdeckX

Nice result!:) I like your list.. I'm playing something really similar atm:

4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
2 Island
2 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Food Chain
3 Manipulate Fate
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Tidespout Tyrant
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Shardless Agent
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Sylvan Library
4 Baleful Strix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage

I agree that the Abrupt Decays are not really needed MD, and maxing out on Strixes goes a long way vs. delver decks/stopping Goyfs.
It is probably correct to replace the Emrakul with a Soul of the harvest as U can atleast hardcast it easiliy. I like a 1/1 split of Tidespout/Soul because u still have outs to E.Bridge etx then.

Greetings-

[HSCK]

Cascade Chain

Creatures: 22
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Soul of the Harvest
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Shardless Agent

Spells: 11
3 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

Combo: 6
2 Manipulate Fate
4 Food Chain

Lands: 21
2 Forest
2 Island
1 Taiga
1 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta

I've been testing Caleb D's variant the past few days and found it really fun and a bit more robust than just BUG. Having Bloodbraid and Visions alone can win matches.

[OCPunisher]

I've been testing Caleb D's variant the past few days and found it really fun and a bit more robust than just BUG. Having Bloodbraid and Visions alone can win matches.

Reminds me a lot of Pod combo in Modern: lots of generally solid creatures that can win on the beatdown plan, plus a combo that can steal free wins as well.

[lambert101]

Was brewing/theory crafting with the following while at work today and wanted to know everyone's thoughts.


Main:

4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
2 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
2 Vendilion Clique

4 Brainstorm
4 Food Chain
4 Force of Will
3 Manipulate Fate
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa’s Jitte


4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Bayou


Sideboard:

3 Pyroblast
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Izzet Staticaster


vs. DnT/Mav
- 4 Force
- 4 NEED HELP WHAT TO CUT (Shardless Agent to not have ee hit at 0?)
+ 3 Abrupt Decay
+ 2 Engineered Explosives
+ 1 Izzet Staticaster
+ 2 Pithing Needle

vs. Jund/Junk
- 4 Force
- 3 NEED HELP WHAT TO CUT
+ 3 Abrupt Decay
+ 2 Engineered Explosives
+ 2 Pithing Needle

vs. Death Blade
- 4 Force
- 1 Umezawa’s Jitte
- 2 Birds of Paradise?
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 2 Engineered Explosives
+ 2 Pithing Needle

vs. WUR Delver
- 4 Force
- 4 NEED HELP WHAT TO CUT
+ 2 Engineered Explosives
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 3 Abrupt Decay

vs. RUG Delver
- 4 Force
- 4 NEED HELP WHAT TO CUT
+ 2 Engineered Explosives
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 3 Abrupt Decay

vs. BUG Delver
- 4 Force
- 1 NEED HELP WHAT TO CUT
+ 2 Engineered Explosives
+ 3 Abrupt Decay

vs. Shardless BUG
- 4 Force
- 4 NEED HELP WHAT TO CUT
+ 2 Engineered Explosives
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 3 Abrupt Decay

vs. Show and Tell - Omni
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 2 Flusterstorm
- 4 Shardless Agent
- 1 Umezawa’s Jitte

vs. Show and Tell - Sneak Attack
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 2 Pithing Needle
- 4 Shardless Agent
- 1 Umezawa’s Jitte
- 2 Birds of Paradise

vs. Storm Combo
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 2 Engineered Explosives
+ 1 Izzet Staticaster
- 2 Tidespout Tyrant
- 4 Shardless Agent
- 1 Sylvan Library
- 1 Umezawa’s Jitte

vs. Belcher
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 2 Engineered Explosives
+ 1 Izzet Staticaster
+ 2 Pithing Needle
- 2 Birds of Paradise
- 2 Tidespout Tyrant
- 4 Shardless Agent
- 1 Sylvan Library
- 1 Umezawa’s Jitte

vs. Dredge
+ 2 Grafdigger’s Cage
+ 2 Engineered Explosives
- 4 NEED HELP WHAT TO CUT



vs. Reanimator
+ 2 Grafdigger’s Cage
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 3 Pyroblast
- 1 Sylvan Library
- 1 Umezawa’s Jitte
- 5 NEED HELP WHAT TO CUT

vs. Miracles
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 3 Abrupt Decay
- 1 Umezawa’s Jitte
- 7 NEED HELP WHAT TO CUT

vs. Esper Stoneblade
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 2 Engineered Explosives (for Spirit Tokens)
+ 1 Izzet Staticaster
- 1 Umezawa’s Jitte
- 7 NEED HELP WHAT TO CUT

[elpeludo]

Well, this is my first post here :)
I´ve been reading this thread for a few months and i finally could play the same version chinEsE girl used to play, even with wall of blossoms this last sunday, making it to the finals and i won a Gaea´s Cradle, judge foil Natural Order and an Emrakul :tongue:
It was a 72 ppl tourney and i beat junk, wr painter, 4 color loam (winning list from BOM), affinity and BUG delver (i live the dream: on his t2 he played a Hymn to Tourach and i brainstorm into Griffin + Misdirection + sth :laugh:), tied to an esper and lost against Deadguy.
In top 8 beat a weird foil UW (didnt see red or black, he beats me up G1 with a True-name Nemesis w/ Batterskull), a BUG delver (well,g1 then he concedes) and split the finals.
The deck is a blast to play, i won more games by beating than combing. And most of my opponent didnt know how to play against it, that is a HUGE advantage :)

PS: i only found 'em foil, so i played with a playset of foil Food Chain :cool::cool::cool::cool:

[nevilshute]

Well, this is my first post here :)
I´ve been reading this thread for a few months and i finally could play the same version chinEsE girl used to play, even with wall of blossoms this last sunday, making it to the finals and i won a Gaea´s Cradle, judge foil Natural Order and an Emrakul :tongue:
It was a 72 ppl tourney and i beat junk, wr painter, 4 color loam (winning list from BOM), affinity and BUG delver (i live the dream: on his t2 he played a Hymn to Tourach and i brainstorm into Griffin + Misdirection + sth :laugh:), tied to an esper and lost against Deadguy.
In top 8 beat a weird foil UW (didnt see red or black, he beats me up G1 with a True-name Nemesis w/ Batterskull), a BUG delver (well,g1 then he concedes) and split the finals.
The deck is a blast to play, i won more games by beating than combing. And most of my opponent didnt know how to play against it, that is a HUGE advantage :)

PS: i only found 'em foil, so i played with a playset of foil Food Chain :cool::cool::cool::cool:

That is awesome! Congrats.

[anwei]

I've been lurking around this thread a bit as I've picked up pieces for the deck, and now have a couple questions. I have not played it at all yet, but will probably try it out at a few small events next month. Here goes:

1. I've read a lot of comments on one of the big advantages of the deck being the ability to take a midrange role reasonably well without the combo, particularly in variants with Agent and Strix. It certainly looks, from videos and reading through decklists, like the deck isn't built to play competitively as an all-in combo list a la Sneak and Show. However, I haven't seen many of these lists including cards like Abrupt Decay and Thoughtseize to shore up fair/unfair matches respectively, and it seems like trying some number of either maindeck (especially thoughtseize) could help a lot. (One could even try to play (cmc=2) discard creatures for combo matches, who could still help out with food chain (riptide pilferer, augur of skulls), but those seem too slow against actual combo decks.)

2. The deckbuilding constraints of this deck have a lot in common with the NO Bug list that Eli Kassis Top-8'd an SCG Open with recently (http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=67745): BUG colors, lots of dorks, lots of value dudes who stall until combo time. I'd tried NO Bug some in the past with mixed results, and the inclusion of Craterhoof as a viable and much-faster target than Progenitus made my jaw drop. Have any of the NO lists tried Craterhoof? Food Chain into Craterhoof can obviously be a potentially really-dissapointing play if you roasted your whole army getting your fatty out, but t1 dork, t2 agent->dork, t3 chain, agent->griffin->any other guy+behemoth is usually lethal. This is one spot where I don't know the deck well enough to know how often you have a couple extra guys out mid-combo.
In the same vein, are there any other green monsters, besides Progenitus, that are reasonable Food Chain and Natural Order win-cons? Maelstrom Wanderer seems like the other best option I see apart from protective cards like Empyrial Archangel, but untenably worse than the others in most situations.

3. Looking at Tyrant lists, a 1-of Coiling Oracle seems like a huge play, as it turns Shardless Agent into a draw-your-deck card, but some lists don't have this. Is resolved Tyrant just good enough that it's irrelevant?

4. Caleb's Counterbalance seems like a good alternative to Mage as permanent hate in UG. 1-2 maindeck Top seems reasonable amid potentially lots of mana, a deck sometimes in search of better tutors/digging, and in conjunction with Agent. Boarding into 3/3 Top/CB for Storm and Sneak/Show would not strain the board too badly, and the deck has a very good curve to match up to these decks (10 3's vs. SnT?). There may simply not be enough slots.

[resmaster]

Hey guys! I've been reading the posts from this forum for a long time, and finally decided to register!

So, a few questions here:

a) I'm brewing the BUG Empath version of this deck (no shardless agent, no natural order). Is Emrakul still the best kill condition? Are we leaning towards Soul of The Harvest and/or Tidespout Tyrant?

b) Is it worth running Venser without Karakas? I can see it would only work as a boomerang for problematic stuff (revoker, needle, e. bridge), and could be replaced with Aethersnipe.

c) What are the best creatures for our alternative game plan (beating the crap down)? Besides the griffins, of course. Shardless Agent, Clique, Venser, Strix, DR Shaman, BB Elf?

Thanks!

[nevilshute]

Welcome aboard :smile:

Sounds like you're going for a list close to what I'm playing.

I personally prefer having access to the empath/aethersnipe/griselbrand path and a single emrakul. The only argument for tyrant imo is that it pitches to force. When you have food chain + griffin then 95% of the time emrakul and tyrant equates to the same. But when casting tyrant them having a swords to plowshares can mess you up.

I don't feel venser is worth it tbh. He's too high variance imo. But if I was running 2 or more venser/clique I'd really try to find space for karakas.

In terms of being set up for the grindy plan b the following cards are really important:

4x Deathrites
3-4x baleful strix
3x abrupt decay
Your griffins + manipulate fate

[resmaster]

Welcome aboard :smile:

Sounds like you're going for a list close to what I'm playing.

I personally prefer having access to the empath/aethersnipe/griselbrand path and a single emrakul. The only argument for tyrant imo is that it pitches to force. When you have food chain + griffin then 95% of the time emrakul and tyrant equates to the same. But when casting tyrant them having a swords to plowshares can mess you up.

I don't feel venser is worth it tbh. He's too high variance imo. But if I was running 2 or more venser/clique I'd really try to find space for karakas.

In terms of being set up for the grindy plan b the following cards are really important:

4x Deathrites
3-4x baleful strix
3x abrupt decay
Your griffins + manipulate fate

Thanks! That's pretty much what I was thinking. I'll try to grab a Griselbrand as soon as possible and stick to this path :)

[elpeludo]

I like the deck with fewer nonbasic lands. Its great against Wasteland :). That´s why id prefer the tyrant over Griselbrand: its easier to cast, even without the Food Chain :)

[resmaster]

I like the deck with fewer nonbasic lands. Its great against Wasteland :). That´s why id prefer the tyrant over Griselbrand: its easier to cast, even without the Food Chain :)

I do not have much experience with this deck, but:

When do you want a Tyrant in play without Food Chain? Is that to start a flying beatdown plan? I believe the griffins are best suited for that. Or maybe to return a problematic permanent to opponent's hand? Aethersnipe does that, and, without food chain, it's quite hard to return more than one permanent with the Tyrant.

It always seemed to me that, if we don't have Food Chain in play, we are not counting on our bombs anymore.

[nevilshute]

I do not have much experience with this deck, but:

When do you want a Tyrant in play without Food Chain? Is that to start a flying beatdown plan? I believe the griffins are best suited for that. Or maybe to return a problematic permanent to opponent's hand? Aethersnipe does that, and, without food chain, it's quite hard to return more than one permanent with the Tyrant.

It always seemed to me that, if we don't have Food Chain in play, we are not counting on our bombs anymore.

Basically you are right. The thing with Tyrant is, that not only do we need Food Chain, but also a Griffin for it to truly be good. I mean sure, there are times where you might be able to get it into play via Food Chain and it will win us the game, but ask yourself if in that spot you wouldn't rather have Griselbrand?

With Food Chain + Griffin then Tyrant is GG and will ostensibly win the game just like Emrakul would. I play the Griselbrand to be able to get him into play with a Food Chain but without a griffin to go infinite with. In that case I'd rather have a resolved Griselbran to draw me into my forces and griffins + emrakul/empath to win, rather than having a resolved 5/5 flyer that may or may not matter depending on our hand/mana situation.

There will always be corner cases where one fatty is better than the other but Griselbrand trumphs Tyrant more often than not. Tyrant being pitchable to force is probably its most redeeming quality.

[resmaster]

Thanks nevilshute, that's pretty much what I was thinking.

A rough sketch of the list:

4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Noble Hierarch / Birds of Paradise (still undecided on which one, lots of nice black cards for SB)
4 Misthollow Griffin
3 Fierce Empath
2 Wall of Blossoms
3 Baleful Strix
1 Emrakul
1 Griselbrand
1 Aethersnipe

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Food Chain
3 Ponder
1 Lim-dûl's Vault
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
3 Island
2 Forest

What do you guys think? Thanks!

[nevilshute]

Thanks nevilshute, that's pretty much what I was thinking.

A rough sketch of the list:

4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Noble Hierarch / Birds of Paradise (still undecided on which one, lots of nice black cards for SB)
4 Misthollow Griffin
3 Fierce Empath
2 Wall of Blossoms
3 Baleful Strix
1 Emrakul
1 Griselbrand
1 Aethersnipe

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Food Chain
3 Ponder
1 Lim-dûl's Vault
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
3 Island
2 Forest

What do you guys think? Thanks!

Well to me that list looks good. It's close to what I like to play myself, but others will disagree. One glaring omission is Manipulate Fate. Is it intentional that you have not included it or is it a mistake? It's a crucial card and is just value through and through. I'd never play fewer than 2 or more than 3.

If you're looking for cards to cut I'd look somewhere amongst the Ponders and/or Wall of Blossoms. Wall of Blossoms is one of my favorite cards but I've sadly decided that it's not good enough. It will rarely be able to block goyf and live and Nimble Mongoose isn't seeing much play so it's value once resolved is negligable. Baleful Strix is way more valueable in being able to trade with delvers. I'd probably be tempted to play a 4th strix.

I also get by fine with 6 mana dorks (I play 4 deathrite and 2 hierarch)

I also like 1 or 2 Cliques as it improves our matchup against storm which is a popular deck where I play and is a quite troublesome matchup. Another popular deck is BUG Delver, a deck against which, the more grindy cards have a lot of value. I therefor also like to play a 3rd Abrupt Decay and 1 or 2 Sylvan Libraries but I suppose these are somewhat interchangeable with Ponders.

One last thing is, I've recently moved from playing 3 to only 2 Fierce Empath and have been happy with that decision so far. It's basically the worst card in the deck in a vaccuum and therefor not one you want to draw too often. It might still be more correct to play the 3rd one, but I'm so far happy with cutting it. Usually bad opening hands include this guy. One place where I am slightly feeling a negative effect of running just 2 is when going for empath -> snipe -> Griselbrand with Food Chain but no Griffin. When I was running 3 empaths it felt safer to just start activating Griselbrand (as we need to hit both a griffin and an empath/emrakul), with one less empath this seems slightly less stable. But you're still in an extremely favorable position there and I'm not complaining.

All in all I'd probably be looking at something like:

-1 hierarch/birds
-2 Wall of Blossoms
-1 Ponder
-1 Empath

+1 strix
+3 Manipulate Fate
+1 Abrupt Decay

[resmaster]

Well to me that list looks good. It's close to what I like to play myself, but others will disagree. One glaring omission is Manipulate Fate. Is it intentional that you have not included it or is it a mistake? It's a crucial card and is just value through and through. I'd never play fewer than 2 or more than 3.

If you're looking for cards to cut I'd look somewhere amongst the Ponders and/or Wall of Blossoms. Wall of Blossoms is one of my favorite cards but I've sadly decided that it's not good enough. It will rarely be able to block goyf and live and Nimble Mongoose isn't seeing much play so it's value once resolved is negligable. Baleful Strix is way more valueable in being able to trade with delvers. I'd probably be tempted to play a 4th strix.

I also get by fine with 6 mana dorks (I play 4 deathrite and 2 hierarch)

I also like 1 or 2 Cliques as it improves our matchup against storm which is a popular deck where I play and is a quite troublesome matchup. Another popular deck is BUG Delver, a deck against which, the more grindy cards have a lot of value. I therefor also like to play a 3rd Abrupt Decay and 1 or 2 Sylvan Libraries but I suppose these are somewhat interchangeable with Ponders.

One last thing is, I've recently moved from playing 3 to only 2 Fierce Empath and have been happy with that decision so far. It's basically the worst card in the deck in a vaccuum and therefor not one you want to draw too often. It might still be more correct to play the 3rd one, but I'm so far happy with cutting it. Usually bad opening hands include this guy. One place where I am slightly feeling a negative effect of running just 2 is when going for empath -> snipe -> Griselbrand with Food Chain but no Griffin. When I was running 3 empaths it felt safer to just start activating Griselbrand (as we need to hit both a griffin and an empath/emrakul), with one less empath this seems slightly less stable. But you're still in an extremely favorable position there and I'm not complaining.

All in all I'd probably be looking at something like:

-1 hierarch/birds
-2 Wall of Blossoms
-1 Ponder
-1 Empath

+1 strix
+3 Manipulate Fate
+1 Abrupt Decay

WOOW, it was a mistake. Totally forgort about Manipulate Fate. I'm at work right now and tried to remember the list without having it written down anywhere in here ahahahah. I was pretty sure I had no Wall of Blossoms on the list, and couldn't remember which cards were there to take their place.

Anyway, why do you say people will disagree? Is shardless agent version a popular choice?

I agree with you about clique and a. decay, that's why I asked a few posts ago about going to beatdown plan :)

About the draw engines, I really don't know if I want Ponder, Sylvan Library, Sensei's Divining Top, Lim-dûl's Vault, or any combination of them haha

[nevilshute]

WOOW, it was a mistake. Totally forgort about Manipulate Fate. I'm at work right now and tried to remember the list without having it written down anywhere in here ahahahah. I was pretty sure I had no Wall of Blossoms on the list, and couldn't remember which cards were there to take their place.

Anyway, why do you say people will disagree? Is shardless agent version a popular choice?

I agree with you about clique and a. decay, that's why I asked a few posts ago about going to beatdown plan :)

About the draw engines, I really don't know if I want Ponder, Sylvan Library, Sensei's Divining Top, Lim-dûl's Vault, or any combination of them haha

Shardless Agent appears to be a popular choice in the US (okay, that's a pretty sweeping statement based on fairly limited empirical data). I personally think it pushes the deck too far away from the combo plan and I also feel like Shardless Agent isn't as good a plan without Ancestral Vision. If you then incorporate AV you are suddenly dedicating way too many slots imo.

Yeah, it's a bit of a toss up / personal preference question when it comes to library manipulation beyond brainstorm.

[korfits]

I'm trying a build atm where I'm running bloodbraid elf, living wish and purphoros, God of the forge (one mb and one sb). It's fun and you can then cascade into your food chain or living wish which is awesome :) I'm not running shardless Argent.
My deck sadly misses some fetch lands. It it's not running optimal

Nevilshute, what do you mean with your quote? (Det med boy band?)

[kingtk3]

I've recently won two local tournaments (around 12 people of attendance) with the following list:

LANDS
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
1 Taiga
1 Bayou
1 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
2 Forest
2 Island

MANA DORKS
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman

VALUE
4 Shardless Agent
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Ancestral Vision

MANIPULATION
4 Brainstorm
2 Manipulate Fate

PROTECTION
4 Force of Will
2 Vendilion Clique

COMBO
4 Food Chain
4 Misthollow Griffin

FINISHERS
2 Soul of the Harvest
1 Tidespout Tyrant


SIDE
2 Counterbalance
2 Krosan Grip
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Plague
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Baleful Strix


I've always been a huge fan of RUG Cascade aka Waterfall (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24739-Waterfalls-(RUG-Cascade!)) and I had won a discrete number of tournaments with it. On the other hand I've always had a soft spot for Food Chain, although I've never been lucky playing it.

When the other day I saw CalebD's take on the deck I decided to give it a try (although I tweaked some cards to fit my likings): the deck plays more similar to Waterfall than Food Chain, basically trading off goyfs and some control elements (removals and tops) for the combo and more mana dorks. When playing I felt like the mainly focus was the midrange beat down with , however, the possibility to insta-win with the combo, and even having only half was sweet (immortal grifons or ramping into a finisher is good on its own).

In the tournaments I've lost only to Mono Black Pox (although we're even on matches) and Jund, winning against various elves, Shardless BUG, Sneak and Show, infect, BUG delver and sliver (don't remember the other decks, sorry).

In the end I really like this version, maybe because it fits very well my playstile, but I'm looking for improvements: for example, I really don't like the volcanic island but I want at least 2 red sources, so maybe I should play a second taiga.
I also would like to play a couple of Sensei's Divining Top because it's very good on it's own, stellar with so many cascade and almost a must with counterbalance in the side (I know this much since I played it in Waterfall too).

What do you suggest to take out?

[grokh]

Hi all,

I just had an idea for players playing a BUG Tempo shell with cards like Baleful strix, Abrupt decay, some discard etc ...

Have you tested Tombstalker ?
- It's a 5/5 Fly body
- Can exile a Misthollow Griffin in the graveyard with the Delve ability
- Can roughly diminush the strength/toughness of a Tarmogoyf
- With Food chain, it'll generate a lot of mana cos you cast it often for :b::b: and it'll give you :9: manas when exiling it

I spoke on phone with a friend playing a Food chain BUG Tempo shell and he kinda liked the idea.

And i just saw a beast in Magic 2015 who could fit very well in our deck :

Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
:4::b::b:
Legendary Creature - Demon
Flying, trample
Whenever an opponent searches his or her library, that player sacrifices a creature and loses 10 life.
Whenever another creature dies, put a +1/+1 counter on Ob Nixilis, Unshackled.
4/4

- Can be tutored on Fierce empath
- It's a real lock for your opponent who cannot fetch anymore, it locks a lot of cards.
- It's a 4/4 Fly


Thoughts ?

[OCPunisher]

I've recently won two local tournaments (around 12 people of attendance) with the following list:

LANDS
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
1 Taiga
1 Bayou
1 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
2 Forest
2 Island

MANA DORKS
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman

VALUE
4 Shardless Agent
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Ancestral Vision

MANIPULATION
4 Brainstorm
2 Manipulate Fate

PROTECTION
4 Force of Will
2 Vendilion Clique

COMBO
4 Food Chain
4 Misthollow Griffin

FINISHERS
2 Soul of the Harvest
1 Tidespout Tyrant


SIDE
2 Counterbalance
2 Krosan Grip
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Plague
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Baleful Strix


I've always been a huge fan of RUG Cascade aka Waterfall (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24739-Waterfalls-(RUG-Cascade!)) and I had won a discrete number of tournaments with it. On the other hand I've always had a soft spot for Food Chain, although I've never been lucky playing it.

When the other day I saw CalebD's take on the deck I decided to give it a try (although I tweaked some cards to fit my likings): the deck plays more similar to Waterfall than Food Chain, basically trading off goyfs and some control elements (removals and tops) for the combo and more mana dorks. When playing I felt like the mainly focus was the midrange beat down with , however, the possibility to insta-win with the combo, and even having only half was sweet (immortal grifons or ramping into a finisher is good on its own).

In the tournaments I've lost only to Mono Black Pox (although we're even on matches) and Jund, winning against various elves, Shardless BUG, Sneak and Show, infect, BUG delver and sliver (don't remember the other decks, sorry).

In the end I really like this version, maybe because it fits very well my playstile, but I'm looking for improvements: for example, I really don't like the volcanic island but I want at least 2 red sources, so maybe I should play a second taiga.
I also would like to play a couple of Sensei's Divining Top because it's very good on it's own, stellar with so many cascade and almost a must with counterbalance in the side (I know this much since I played it in Waterfall too).

What do you suggest to take out?

I played a very similar list to this one last night at a local Legacy event, and ended up going 1-2 in matches against Deathblade, Shardless BUG, and a Dark Depths homebrew. I used Purphoros as a win-con instead of Soul/Tyrant, and my sideboard was kind of a mess.

The biggest problem with the list for me was all the cascade cards. The value one would normally get from the additional bodies doesn't actually matter because it's not really a tempo deck (at least not a very good one), and meanwhile the cascade trigger just puts all the combo pieces and Force of Wills on the bottom of the deck. If I had to run it back, I would probably design it a lot differently, with no cascading at all.

[korfits]

I kinda like the cascading. I run living wish in MB and purphoros, God of the forge in SB. That means that I'm able to cascade for all my combo pieces. Food chain, manipulate fate, fierce empath and living wish. If you cascade into an ansectral vision it's not bad either. You can after the cascade just exile the creature to your food chain and combo of.

[OCPunisher]

I kinda like the cascading. I run living wish in MB and purphoros, God of the forge in SB. That means that I'm able to cascade for all my combo pieces. Food chain, manipulate fate, fierce empath and living wish. If you cascade into an ansectral vision it's not bad either. You can after the cascade just exile the creature to your food chain and combo of.

I think Shardless Agent is actually worse than Bloodbraid Elf cuz it doesn't hit Food Chain. Also, if you are looking for combo pieces, you probably can't use the value from the extra body, so you're really just paying extra mana to dig.

[korfits]

A game that i just played. Had 2x shardless 1x force and 1x vision in hand and a foodchain in play. I cast a shardless argent getting a manipulate fate (3 griffens rdy to be cast) i exile the shardless cast 2 griffens and play the other shardless (from hand) cascades into a living wish. wishing for purphoros in SB. Cast him and wins the game. that's pretty good value ^^
But i allso only have 2 shardless in my deck where i have 4 bloodbraid elfs

This is my decklist:

Combo:
4 Food Chain
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge

Value spells:
2 Manipulate Fate
2 Living Wish
1 Fierce Empath
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Brainstorm
2 Ancestral Vision
2 Shardless Agent

Mana dorks
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Deathrite Shaman

Permission:
4 Force of Will

Utility:
1 Æthersnipe

Lands:
1 Bayou
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
4 Tropical Island
4 Wooded Foothills
6 Island
1 Forest

Sideboard:
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Meddling Mage
2 Spell Pierce
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Izzet Staticaster
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Æthersnipe
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Misthollow Griffin

i'm still working on getting alle the fetches i want. I might want to change some of the numbers a bit. And so far i only got 2 shardless. So i might want to try 3
Sideboard is still getting changed alot. But i'm more focused on getting the right mix of cards in the MB first

[.Ix]

A game that i just played. Had 2x shardless 1x force and 1x vision in hand and a foodchain in play. I cast a shardless argent getting a manipulate fate (3 griffens rdy to be cast) i exile the shardless cast 2 griffens and play the other shardless (from hand) cascades into a living wish. wishing for purphoros in SB. Cast him and wins the game. that's pretty good value ^^
But i allso only have 2 shardless in my deck where i have 4 bloodbraid elfs

This is my decklist:

Combo:
4 Food Chain
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge

Value spells:
2 Manipulate Fate
2 Living Wish
1 Fierce Empath
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Brainstorm
2 Ancestral Vision
2 Shardless Agent

Mana dorks
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Deathrite Shaman

Permission:
4 Force of Will

Utility:
1 Æthersnipe

Lands:
1 Bayou
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
4 Tropical Island
4 Wooded Foothills
6 Island
1 Forest

Sideboard:
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Meddling Mage
2 Spell Pierce
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Izzet Staticaster
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Æthersnipe
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Misthollow Griffin

i'm still working on getting alle the fetches i want. I might want to change some of the numbers a bit. And so far i only got 2 shardless. So i might want to try 3
Sideboard is still getting changed alot. But i'm more focused on getting the right mix of cards in the MB first

While I love the Living Wish tech, isn't that just way too many Food Chain win cons? 4 in the main looks too many to me, and you even run 1 Empath.

[korfits]

While I love the Living Wish tech, isn't that just way too many Food Chain win cons? 4 in the main looks too many to me, and you even run 1 Empath.

It might be. Maybe I should shave the tyrant and maybe even put emrakul into the sideboard. So I can run one more shardless and maybe one more wish. Normally when I win I win via the purphoros or soul. I just really like the fierce empath to be able to fetch a æthersnipe if someone got a needle naming food chain in play. I can even get the æthersnipe from my sb aswell

[kingtk3]

Needle naming a mana abilty doesn't do anything, maybe revoker

[korfits]

That is true. I lost a game because I forgot all about that :( oh well I got lock out by a revoked and a chalice as well. Then I just went beat down instead.

What would you board in against burn, ant / tes and elves? Those are the matchup I face the most and have the most problems with. Was considering leyline and golgari charm?

[kingtk3]

Basing on the side of the list I've posted:

Burn - counterbalance, baleful strix (for blocking goblin guide)

Ant/tes - counterbalance, engineered plague (for empty the warrens), grafdigger's cage, maybe krosan grip for lion's eye diamond in case he plays it and gives you priority

Elves - counterbalance, needle, plague, cage, strix (instead of visions because they are faster), decay

You may consider alter this side, but I think leyline is good only against burn, because elves doesn't care a thing about it and storm is equipped to beat it.

[korfits]

Basing on the side of the list I've posted:

Burn - counterbalance, baleful strix (for blocking goblin guide)

Ant/tes - counterbalance, engineered plague (for empty the warrens), grafdigger's cage, maybe krosan grip for lion's eye diamond in case he plays it and gives you priority

Elves - counterbalance, needle, plague, cage, strix (instead of visions because they are faster), decay

You may consider alter this side, but I think leyline is good only against burn, because elves doesn't care a thing about it and storm is equipped to beat it.

What about going:

Burn - leyline and then nothing else really

Storm - leyline. And i can allways living wish for a izzet static caster (then i wont have to take so much out of my MD)

Elves - Golgari cham for the -1/-1 and then again you can wish for the static caster or maybe bord the static casters in.

Against any discard heavy deck i could take in leyline aswell. Discard matchups can really screw with my hand.

[kingtk3]

What about going:

Burn - leyline and then nothing else really

Storm - leyline. And i can allways living wish for a izzet static caster (then i wont have to take so much out of my MD)

Elves - Golgari cham for the -1/-1 and then again you can wish for the static caster or maybe bord the static casters in.

Against any discard heavy deck i could take in leyline aswell. Discard matchups can really screw with my hand.
Against burn leyline is effective forcing them to go beatdown, but remember that sulfuric vortex and flame rift don't target and can kill you.

Against storm leyline alone isn't enough protection: game 2 they are likely to board in xantid swarm and some bounce like chain of vapor. Their response to leyline (or any other permanent hate) is not etw but bounce too. You have to clog the board with at least 2 or 3 permanents to really lock them out.

Against elves golgari charm is strong but not definitive: first of all it doesn't kill all of his creatures.
It clears the board more or less for one turn, they can rebuild fast with glimpse of nature.
The worst thing, however, is that it doesn't stop their win conditions, which are natural order and green sun's zenith.

Anyway golgari charm is very versatile and I can see one or 2 copies in the board.

Leyline, on the other hand, requires a great commitment on the side (4 slots) and it doesn't really address storm or any other deck (burn apart).

If you are having problems against discard I think you have to practice more the deck (no offence intended) because it is full of value and it's hard for a discard deck to keep up.

[korfits]

i couldn't agree more about the committing 4 slots for leyline.
Is counterbalance worth running if you got no top?
And yes i need lots of practice with the deck. i'm still playing tournament practice on MODO. But i would like to start playing tournaments soon.

[kingtk3]

This deck has a mana curve very well distributed, so you can positively blind flip a concrete number of times.
I think, however, that counterbalance is a strong psychological weapon because the opponent cannot know if you have a brainstorm in hand, so he has to consider it for every play he makes.

However I would like to put at least 2 tops in the deck because they are good on their own and help set up cascade.

The hard part is what to take out: I think that a hierarch and the fourth Griffin / the second soul are the most prominent candidate, but I didn't have the time to test so far.

[Seven_six]

I am liking the purphoros win con, and to make it more consistent, using a combination of manip fate, living wish and enlightened tutor. I was thinking something like this:

Creatures (16):
4 noble hierarch
2 birds of paradise
4 shardless agent
3 misthollow
2 vendillion clique
1 purphoros

Instants/Sorceries (17)
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
3 ancestral vision
2 enlightened tutor
2 manipulate fate
2 living wish

Artifact/Enchantments (6)
3 food chain
1 sensei's diving top
1 counterbalance
1 rest in peace

Lands (21):
3 tropical island
2 tundra
1 volcanic island
1 taiga
1 savannah
2 island
2 forest
4 misty rainforest
3 windswept heath
2 flooded strand


SB:
1 misthollow
1 purphoros
2 misdirection
1 ruric thar
2 counterbalance
2 rest in peace
1 helm of obedience
3 meddling Mage
....????

Shardless won't cascade into food chain, but it hits all the "search for" cards and ancestral visions. It is also great fodder for a FoW if needed. One thing I have seen with the lists trying to go with bloodbraid is a lack of blue sources for FoW. We don't always have the awesomeness of pitching a misthollow to FoW unfortunately.

[korfits]

I really like that your trying to get white into the deck. But are you getting more blue cards in there when you remove the bloodbraid elf? aren't you just replacring the elfs with tutors effects? i run 17 blue spells (other then FoW) so 21 blue spells in total. and i have 4 BBE

[Seven_six]

Sorry I meant the bloodbraid versions which are dropping shardless... This list definitely needs work, and could probably replace the living wishes, but I like the split for versatility. E-tutor can grab food chain, purphoros or one of the singletons - wish can grab purphoros or misthollow or another silver bullet creature. And the manipulates grab you up to three misthollows, or allows you to filter card that won't help... I also like the nobles for the exalted triggers.... Someone take this and make it awesome! Haha

[maCHOOga]

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person to have started trying living wish. I completely blanked as porphoros as a win condition. I was running with soul of the harvest/cascades and 4 living wishes. I'm currently trying out a complete wish board. My main kill condition is a vela the night clad, via living wish. Unfortunately, a full wish board sacrifices a lot of sideboard slots.

[Seven_six]

Hmmm I like the vela the night clad - then I can revert to a bug list with strix, deathrite, and as a plus she pitches to force.... Interesting...

[korfits]

Why run vela the night clad when you can use purphoros, God of the forge? He is way harder to deal with. Cost less and can even pump your griffins. The only upside I can see to vela the night clad is. that at 6 cmc you can fetch her with fierce empath.

[resmaster]

Has anyone tested that RUG Wish version? I'd like to hear more about it, as I'm still building my deck (just finished to muster all my Elvish Legion and their beloved cradles) and did not decide between BUG and RUG.

It seems to me that Purphoros is a sweet kill for all the mentioned reasons, and the aggro plan is really well suited with Shardless Agent, Bloodbraid Elf and our flying recurring beasts.

Also, the Wish package allows us to have nice options in the board. I'm having the craziest ideas here, like Flametongue Kavu, Mistcutter Hydra, and even a singleton fetchland maybe, in order to fix mana hahahahaha

[Seven_six]

I have done a little bit of play testing with the BANTr version I listed above - a lot of matches vs ANT and sneak and show. Against storm it performed very well due to the counterbalance and rest in peace silver bullets, along side the living wish for ruric thar or more often meddling mage. Maybe more luck than anything but between shardless agent and the enlightened tutors and living wish I usually had a t2 or t3 lock which was often enough to win. Against sneak and show it was more close, but typically if they went show and tell into emrakul they died to my combo. Griselbrand not so much... Next I will be trying against some non combo decks, like death and taxes and jund.

[cheethorne]

I'm pretty new to Legacy and I really like this deck for being so interesting to play. I've been starting to play with a list very similar to Korfits, but I have a question about using Living Wish.

Korfits, in your list, you run both Living Wish and Fierce Empath. Why not just run Living Wish? It can be hit with Shardless Agent and it can grab any win conditions or utility creatures you might need out of your sideboard, what does running Fierce Empath give that a third Living Wish would not?

[resmaster]

I'm pretty new to Legacy and I really like this deck for being so interesting to play. I've been starting to play with a list very similar to Korfits, but I have a question about using Living Wish.

Korfits, in your list, you run both Living Wish and Fierce Empath. Why not just run Living Wish? It can be hit with Shardless Agent and it can grab any win conditions or utility creatures you might need out of your sideboard, what does running Fierce Empath give that a third Living Wish would not?

I have never played this version, but, I get the following:

- Living wish puts a kill condition in your hand;
- Fierce Empath puts a kill condition in your hand AND can be removed to Food Chain in order to cast a Griffin and start the whole thing.

Wish is more versatile, whilst Empath represents a faster kill.

[korfits]

That is True. The empath is Great for that fast combo kill. Living wish is there mainly to get a misthallow or purphoros. If really needed you could get and izzet static caster. And you still want your kill cons in your MD. You can all so do something like aetherize, bounce empath cast it and get a kill con.

[maurobad2k4]

Hey guys what about testing Dig Through Time as 1-of ?

We are not grave dependent, got a lot of mana dorks and can even exile dead Griffins. It seems a good way to find the remaining combo pieces.

Any Thoughts ?

[HSCK]

This is definitely a deck that wants Dig Through Time. I'll have to get some extras for my friend that plays it.

[kingtk3]

I'm actually playing 2 copies of Dig Through Time in my Shardless version, but I didn't have the chance to test lately so I don't have any data reguarding them.
Surely they can help the builds without tutors the most.

[maurobad2k4]

I`ll be testing DTT in the following weeks and then let you guys know. I guess 2-of is reasonable number for testing purposes.

[dog_koko]

Altar of the Brood is the key

[Monkey_Island]

Hi everybody!

I am also currently testing Dig Through Time and the least I can say is that the card is awesome. I started with 2 copies and went quickly up to 4. I also used 4 Ponder, at first, I was afraid that reducing too much the creatures count would be too harmful but so far I am really satisfied. The deck is more resilient than ever, here's the list:

2 Birds of Paradise
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Tidespout Tyrant
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

4 Food Chain

4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection

3 Manipulate Fate
4 Ponder

2 Ancient Tomb
2 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
3 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Verdant Catacombs

2 Engineered Explosives
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Trinket Mage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Misdirection
2 Moment's Peace

The SB has not been highly tested at the moment. Since I cut black, there is no Toxic Deluge or Abrupt Decay as SB options or Deathrite Shaman MB but I did not missed them so far. Maybe with all the Treasure Cruise and possibly Dig Through Time that will invade the format it will be important to win Deathrites' batlles... But the fetches, cantrips and mana dorks make casting DTT very easily and I like being Wasteland-proof during the first 2 turns.
Has anybody had the same feeling about DTT?

[maCHOOga]

2 Engineered Explosives
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Trinket Mage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Misdirection
2 Moment's Peace
[/cards]
The SB has not been highly tested at the moment. Since I cut black, there is no Toxic Deluge or Abrupt Decay as SB options or Deathrite Shaman MB but I did not missed them so far. Maybe with all the Treasure Cruise and possibly Dig Through Time that will invade the format it will be important to win Deathrites' batlles... But the fetches, cantrips and mana dorks make casting DTT very easily and I like being Wasteland-proof during the first 2 turns.
Has anybody had the same feeling about DTT?

So here's an idea, since you're running trinket mage sideboard, why not find room to squeeze one altar of the brood into the 75 somewhere? It allows for another combo avenue. Food Chain + Griffin + Altar = Deck you. Obviously there are corner cases where your opponent has an eldrazi trigger, but I'm always a fan of alternate win conditions! Heck, they can cast treasure cruise all they want at that point! :laugh:

[Monkey_Island]

I thought about it but did not test it yet... Additional wincon at 1 colorless mana seems worth testing for sure!

[OCPunisher]

I thought about it but did not test it yet... Additional wincon at 1 colorless mana seems worth testing for sure!

Just remember that you can't cast it with Food Chain mana, so you need to make sure that you don't tap out before you combo off.

[nevilshute]

Hi everybody!

I am also currently testing Dig Through Time and the least I can say is that the card is awesome. I started with 2 copies and went quickly up to 4. I also used 4 Ponder, at first, I was afraid that reducing too much the creatures count would be too harmful but so far I am really satisfied. The deck is more resilient than ever, here's the list:

2 Birds of Paradise
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Tidespout Tyrant
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

4 Food Chain

4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection

3 Manipulate Fate
4 Ponder

2 Ancient Tomb
2 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
3 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Verdant Catacombs

2 Engineered Explosives
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Trinket Mage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Misdirection
2 Moment's Peace

The SB has not been highly tested at the moment. Since I cut black, there is no Toxic Deluge or Abrupt Decay as SB options or Deathrite Shaman MB but I did not missed them so far. Maybe with all the Treasure Cruise and possibly Dig Through Time that will invade the format it will be important to win Deathrites' batlles... But the fetches, cantrips and mana dorks make casting DTT very easily and I like being Wasteland-proof during the first 2 turns.
Has anybody had the same feeling about DTT?

Once I have the time for it I will try out DTT. I have a feeling it's going to be pretty good. Will be trying it out as a 2-of. Only grievance for now is the (very slight) annoyance at going from 0 graveyard dependancy to some (albeit very little).

[Monkey_Island]

I would not worry about the (slight) graveyard dependancy because casting the mana dorks help to compensate the eventual cards exiled by the opponent. How went your tests with DTT?

[maurobad2k4]

I finally could test DTT this last weekend in a small sized tournament at my local store, but I can say that DTT is bonkers. I`ve casted DTT 6 times, it got countered twice and I won the other games because of the cards gotten by DTT.

My list, for reference :

4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Food Chain
4x Misthollow Griffin
4x Deathrite Shaman
3x Shardless Agent
3x Baleful Strix
3x Manipulate Fate
2x Dig Through Time
2x Vendillion Clique
2x Thoughtseize
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Emrakul, Aeons of Torn
1x Tidespout Tyrant
1x Fierce Empath

4x Verdant Catacomb
2x Polluted Delta
3x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
1x Bayou
2x Island
1x Swamp
1x Forest

Sb

3x Duress
2x Flusterstorm
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Golgari Charm
1x Massacre
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Krosan Grip
1x Null Rod
1x Notion Thief
1x Scavenging Ooze

My matches : 2-0 vs Death Taxes, 2-1 vs Burn, 0-2 vs Omnitell and 2-0 vs BUG Control.

[.Ix]

Well, now that this thread seems to agree that Dig is worth running, it might be time to start exploring Dream Halls again as an alternate combo. Once resolved, the deck can just exile something to cast Dig, then find the Food Chain combo or other missing pieces that way.

[Sentient6]

Hey, really love the deck idea. Think I am going to build the two colored DTT version. Has anyone ever thought of running some number of Commune with the Gods in the DTT version? It finds all combo pieces and also fills the graveyard for DTT.

[nevilshute]

I think the dust needs to settle a bit and multiple combinations of cards need to be tested. I'm currently in the process of gathering the cards needed for the deck on magic online, but am still a ways away before I can start playing it. Sadly I don't get to play that much paper magic atm so don't think I will get to do much testing for the time being.

Commune with the Gods seems like card that we would really love to have at instant speed. It's nice to fill up the grave towards a dig, but I can see both mana and time being an issue as it potentially requires us to tap out on our main phase.

I'll be interested to hear your findings though :smile:

[Sentient6]

Yea, I also hate that it is a sorcery... I will try it nontheless. Could take a while tho, since I got some duals and fetches missing atm. Isn't finding a food chain in time an issue tho? We don't really play tutors for it and the deck seems to not really work if it isn't in play or gets destroyed. The rest of the combo seems really resilient however.

[Rad_Fishy]

What version is everybody playing now? New to the deck but it seems like there's a UG, BUG Cascade, and Caleb's UGrb version. How is this deck again the Treasure Cruise Delver decks that are popping up lately?

[Seven_six]

Trying this out:
Creatures (18):
Deathrite shaman x4
Birds of paradise x1
Shardless agent x4
Purphoros x1
Misthollow griffon x3
Vendillion clique x1
Venser, shaper savant x1
Baleful strix x2
Notion thief x1

Spells (17):
Force of will x4
Ancestral visions x3
Brainstorm x4
Manipulate fate x2
Living wish x3
Dig through time x2

Enchantments (4):
Food chain x4

Lands (21):
Tropical island x3
Bayou x2
Underground sea x1
Taiga x1
Verdant catacombs x4
Misty rainforest x4
Swamp x1
Forest x2
Island x2
Dryad arbor x1

Sideboard:
Massacre wurm x1
Ruric thar, the unbowed x1
Purphoros x1
Griselbrand x1
Misthollow griffon x1
Reclamation sage x1
Notion thief x1

Counterbalance x3
Leyline of the void x2
Cavern of souls x1

2 other??

Deathrite is just so awesome I always want one. The wish list answers most decks when combo isn't available immediately. Let me know what you think!

[nevilshute]

After some (albeit very limited) testing on mtgo where I finally have the cards to play this deck (sans Misdirection which is unreasonably pricey atm) I have to say that I've found Dig Through Time a bit awkward. The UU is the problem. It puts strain on our lands and how we operate the turn leading up to the Dig. In a list that is currently running Savannah and basic Swamp, and that runs a full playset of Baleful Strix, getting to UU can be a problem without leveraging our mana base too much. I know the griffins are UU as well but most of the time they are cast using Food Chain which negates this.

I don't know. It might be too soon to call it out, but I'm pressimistic about playing Dig. Haven't tried Treasure Cruise, but it might be deserving of a go.

For reference, this is the list I'm testing:

4x Food Chain
3x Misthollow Griffin
2x Manipulate Fate
2x Fierce Empath
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Griselbrand
1x Aethersnipe
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder
4x Force of Will
4x Baleful Strix
4x Deathrite Shaman
2x Wall of Blossoms
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Dig Through Time

2x Underground Sea
2x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Savannah
2x Island
1x Forest
1x Swamp
4x Polluted Delta
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:

2x Meddling Mage
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Flusterstorm
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Pithing Needle
2x Obstinate Baloth
2x Duress
1x Thoughtseize

[Monkey_Island]

This is what I am currently testing:


4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
4 Misthollow Griffin
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

4 Food Chain

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
4 Force Of Will
1 Misdirection

1 Bayou
1 Forest
2 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs

2 Commune With The Gods
3 Manipulate Fate
2 Treasure Cruise


I have been disppointed lately with the Strix and practically always wished it was a Decay. The UU is not an issue so far, even against Wasteland decks thanks to Deathrite + fetching basic Island game 1. Deathrite is absolutely wonderful in this deck and worth the splash. I have been really happy with the 2 Commune With The Gods too, it has very good synergy with Deathrite and Delves spells.
I am still testing!

[nevilshute]

Jonathan Job is currently 9-1-1 with Food Chain at the gp NJ :smile:

[GoblinZ]

Jonathan Job is currently 9-1-1 with Food Chain at the gp NJ :smile:

It seems he will take this match, aggro loam in my experience is a good mu for foodchain.

[nevilshute]

He was on camera and won 2–0. Hope the best for his last 3 rounds :smile:

[EnderKR]

Jonathan Job is currently 9-1-1 with Food Chain at the gp NJ :smile:

Just watched that, now 10-1-1.

Genesis Hydra is something I've missed (though I still have a few pages to go back through). That's a really creative, different approach. It gives you a perfect use for your food chain mana to find Emrakul, in addition to dropping another body onto the battlefield, and it can be cast with x=4 or whatever to just dig you deeping into the deck and plop something else into play. Jonathan used it in that second game to drop another Deathrite into play, but I could see it just being another form of ramp + body or or body + Griffin. That's pretty solid.

[movingtonewao]

is jonathan job's list available anywhere? i liked his use of genesis hydra too. with infinite you can play everything in your deck.

[ProBlue]

is jonathan job's list available anywhere? i liked his use of genesis hydra too. with infinite you can play everything in your deck.

I asked the SCG team to do a Deck Tech with him but I guess they weren't very interested in his list for some reason? I wish they would have posted the top 64 decks of GPNJ, so much data could have been mined from that.

[EnderKR]

is jonathan job's list available anywhere? i liked his use of genesis hydra too. with infinite you can play everything in your deck.

Unless I'm missing another interaction somewhere, the Hydra will only let you pick one card out of the ones you revealed. So you could go infinite, cast the hydra and pull out Emrakul or what-have-you from your deck (convenient!) but not just drop everything into play.

Which actually, I really like. Running Hydra as a 1-2 of lets you play it out early-ish for 4+, gaining some value and board position; or drop it later for much more and search out your big win con.

The lists with Purphoros still really intrigue me, but it seems so...jank, I guess? How do you run Purph as a win condition and get around the awkwardness? do you go four color and risk getting hurt even more by Wasteland? Do you cut black entirely and just run RUG? I feel like using Purph encourages more dudes, but the more midrange-y dudes we run the more likely we get blown out by pyroclasms and Punishing Fire. I guess that's mitigated a lot by the fact that with Purph in play you're doing an automatic 2 damage even if your creature dies, and Purph himself won't be killed by..well, really any card played in competitive Legacy? So that's awesome.

But I can't shake the feeling that midrange is not where we want to be wit this list. Am I wrong?

[grokh]

Hi,

I found a video when Jonathan Job (Food chain) played against 4CC Loam at GP New Jersey :

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/589159924?t=23h6m40s

[Seven_six]

Unless I'm missing another interaction somewhere, the Hydra will only let you pick one card out of the ones you revealed. So you could go infinite, cast the hydra and pull out Emrakul or what-have-you from your deck (convenient!) but not just drop everything into play.

Which actually, I really like. Running Hydra as a 1-2 of lets you play it out early-ish for 4+, gaining some value and board position; or drop it later for much more and search out your big win con.

The lists with Purphoros still really intrigue me, but it seems so...jank, I guess? How do you run Purph as a win condition and get around the awkwardness? do you go four color and risk getting hurt even more by Wasteland? Do you cut black entirely and just run RUG? I feel like using Purph encourages more dudes, but the more midrange-y dudes we run the more likely we get blown out by pyroclasms and Punishing Fire. I guess that's mitigated a lot by the fact that with Purph in play you're doing an automatic 2 damage even if your creature dies, and Purph himself won't be killed by..well, really any card played in competitive Legacy? So that's awesome.

But I can't shake the feeling that midrange is not where we want to be wit this list. Am I wrong?


The red comes from deathrite, birds, or food chain itself. If you can't find mana from those sources then you are probably not close to comboing off to begin with.

[movingtonewao]

I asked the SCG team to do a Deck Tech with him but I guess they weren't very interested in his list for some reason? I wish they would have posted the top 64 decks of GPNJ, so much data could have been mined from that.

dayum i guess we'll never know now. It's a shame because we could have analyzed the list to help improve the archetype going forward. Doesn't help that job doesnt seem to be on the forums.

[ProBlue]

dayum i guess we'll never know now. It's a shame because we could have analyzed the list to help improve the archetype going forward. Doesn't help that job doesnt seem to be on the forums.

I received a FB message from Jonathan today. He ran the following list at GPNJ and will be writing a report for SCG to be posted in the next few days... keep your eyes open for it.

//Main Deck:
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Genesis Hydra
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Food Chain
4 Brainstorm
3 Manipulate Fate
2 Dig through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest

//Sideboard:
3 Duress
2 Disfigure
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Karakas

He mentioned a few things about the sideboard that he would do differently but I'm guessing he'll cover that in his report.

Enjoy!

[anwei]

(So if you've gone infinite, Hydra finds Tyrant and the rest becomes moot (could loop Hydra through bouncing their stuff into Emrakul, draw your counters, etc.). Alternative to Empath.)

[movingtonewao]

I received a FB message from Jonathan today. He ran the following list at GPNJ and will be writing a report for SCG to be posted in the next few days... keep your eyes open for it.

//Main Deck:
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Genesis Hydra
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Food Chain
4 Brainstorm
3 Manipulate Fate
2 Dig through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest

//Sideboard:
3 Duress
2 Disfigure
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Karakas

He mentioned a few things about the sideboard that he would do differently but I'm guessing he'll cover that in his report.

Enjoy!

thanks for posting! Hopefully it's on select as i don't have premium :) good to see scg giving the deck the airtime it deserves.

and yes the hydra + tyrant lets you play everything and bounce everything.

[grokh]

I received a FB message from Jonathan today. He ran the following list at GPNJ and will be writing a report for SCG to be posted in the next few days... keep your eyes open for it.

//Main Deck:
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Genesis Hydra
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Food Chain
4 Brainstorm
3 Manipulate Fate
2 Dig through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest

//Sideboard:
3 Duress
2 Disfigure
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Karakas

He mentioned a few things about the sideboard that he would do differently but I'm guessing he'll cover that in his report.

Enjoy!

Hi and first,

Congratulations to Jonathan Job for this HUGE performance on Grand Prix New Jersey !!

On the list :
1) I wonder if the graveyard is fueled enough for casting Dig through time with Delve for :u::u: ...

With 4 Deathrite shaman, i dunno if it's hard, but depends against what you're playing.

2) Why not playing some Mulldrifter ?

If searching for a solution, it'll fuel the graveyard for casting Dig through time and it can be a HUGE mana ramp under Food chain when you haven't gone infiinite for casting Genesis hydra

3) Fierce empath vs Genesis hydra ?

Let's remember the Fierce empath tricks :

a) if infinite, cast Fierce empath, search for an Emrakul, the aeons torn and go for the win !
b) if no infinite, cast Fierce empath, search for an AEthersnipe, cast AEthersnipe for Evoke cost by exiling a creature with CCM :2: for having 3 :u:, target Fierce empath and exile AEthersnipe in resp to sacrifice trigger and get 7 :g:,
use 3 :g: for recasting Fierce empath and search for Griselbrand, exile Fierce empath for 4 :b: , you got now 8 manas in pool with 4 :b: for casting Griselbrand and draw 14 cards !

If we compare with Genesis hydra :

a) same use, but Emrakul, the aeons torn is put into play and not cast so your opponent has 1 turn for finding a solution
b) if i take same situation as for Fierce empath : Food chain on board and 3 :g: (as for casting my Fierce empath) and a creature with at least CCM :2: on board (as for having mana for casting AEthersnipe), we got potentially 6 :g:, so a Genesis hydra with X = 4 searching for a permanent with CCM <= 4 in the top 4 cards !

My conclusion !

So, for me, having some Mulldrifter would be a good thing cos it'll help to :
1) make a huge mana ramp for having a bigger Genesis hydra
2) searching for a solution in the top 2 cards
3) fuel graveyard for casting Dig through time

Feel free to give me your opinions on that !!

And again, congratulation to Jonathan !

[kingtk3]

The problem with creatures like aethersnipe, fierce empath, griselbrand and emrakul is that they are useful only with food chain online (and some of them only if you go infinite): when you don't have food chain they are basically blank.

In order to avoid dead draws is better to play value creatures (strix, shardless, shaman, hydra, soul of the harvest) that can be casted even without food chain and have an impact on their own.

The strength of food chain is not that is a combo, but a midrange that can instantly win out of nowere.