[Deck] Sneak and Show

[JPA]

Sneak & Show



http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=5594&type=cardhttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=5697&type=cardhttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=193452&type=cardhttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=239995&type=card

Old thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?18871-DTB-Sneak-Attack

Introduction and History

Sneak and Show is a blue-red combo-control deck, which primarily operates by trying to resolve either Sneak Attack or Show and Tell to put a huge, most often game-ending fatty like Griselbrand and/or Emrakul, the Aeons Torn into play.

The deck first burst into the competitive Legacy scene in mid-2010 with the printing of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, a fatty overpowered enough that it was worth building a whole deck around.
While Survival of the Fittest decks certainly dominated most tournaments in 2010, Sneak & Show and similar Show and Tell based strategies steadily rose to the top tier of Legacy decks, claiming its first Grand Prix Top 8 in Columbus, where Korey Age piloted a list with Woodfall Primus as the fatty of choice alongside Emrakul.

Shortly after Survival got hit by the ban-hammer, a new format-defining card arrived in the form of Mental Misstep. Conveniently for Sneak & Show, its combo enablers were completely unaffected by the free counter, while Misstep found its way into many lists, providing protection against disruptive 1-mana spells such as Thoughtseize or Spell Pierce.
However, Sneak & Show wasn’t the no. 1 Show and Tell deck during most of the Misstep-era, due to Hive Mind, a mostly 3-card-combo deck that could kill on the spot without the need to actually attack with an Emrakul, being THE deck to beat at the time.
Still, Sneak & Show put up some solid results during that time, sneaking two similar lists into the Top 16 of the Bazaar of Moxen 2011 (Rodrigo Togores and Johannes Gutbrod).

With Mental Misstep banned, the format sped up slightly, which improved Sneak & Show’s position over Hive Mind.
Grand Prix Amsterdam saw two copies of Sneak & Show making Top 16 of the tournament, piloted by teammates Jan Van der Vegt and Erwin Sneek.

The deck continued to put up results in larger tournaments like SCG Opens in late 2011 and early 2012, thanks to the increasing popularity of fair slow decks like Maverick and Stoneblade, which were excellent matchups.
When Griselbrand got printed in May of 2012, Sneak & Show quickly became THE combo deck to beat, and many voices calling for a ban of either Show and Tell or Griselbrand rose up. While you certainly had some outs to Emrakul or Progenitus, Griselbrand’s card-drawing ability made it extremely difficult to turn the game around once the life-linking demon had entered the battlefield. It also made the Sneak Attack part of the combo much better, since it could cheat a Griselbrand into play, who could draw enough cards to find another red source and an Emrakul to end the game on the spot.
Sneak & Show’s tournament success spiraled upwards drastically from there, winning 7 SCG Opens in 2012 and 2013, as well as Top 8ing countless large tournaments and GPs.
Even established professional players like William “Huey” Jensen appreciated its raw power and picked up the deck, putting up consistent great results, culminating in the 2013 SCG Indianapolis Invitational, where Huey, Gerry Thompson, Brian Braun-Duin and Brad Nelson, who took down the tournament in a mirror finals against Huey, all made Top 8 with Sneak and Show.

The huge hype around the deck started dying down in 2014. It still put up great, consistent results, but with dedicated hate-cards like Containment Priest emerging, it was more difficult to just walk through tournaments without much resistance.

Khans of Tarkir game-changers Treasure Cruise and Dig through Time created a completely new Legacy metagame, with seemingly infinite amounts of Red Elemental Blast effects running around to keep the overpowered Delve spells in check.
Still, it managed to make it into the Top 16 of the largest Legacy Grand Prix ever, GP New Jersey 2014, piloted by Jonathan Anghelescu (yours truly ;) ), incorporating Dig Through Time as a “super-cantrip” and main deck Fire // Ice to combat UR Delver, the S tier deck of the time.

Shortly after that, Treasure Cruise got banned in early 2015, slowing the format down significantly. This time was the birth of the 4 Dig through Time – powered version of Omnitell, which became the new boogeyman of Legacy and, even though slower, was consistent and powerful enough to take Sneak & Show’s place as the premier Show and Tell strategy.

However, Dig through Time followed Treasure Cruise to the ban-grave shortly thereafter, and Sneak & Show reclaimed its spot as Show and Tell deck no. 1.
Yet, the overall popularity of the strategy was at an all-time low and except winning the Legacy Magic Online Championship (piloted by yours truly) it didn’t put up many significant results during late 2015 and early 2016.

A new version of Sneak and Show emerged in 2016, a hybrid of Sneak and Omnitell, therefore called OmniSneak. With a better Eldrazi and Death and Taxes matchup than traditional Sneak & Show, it proved to be a strong meta-choice, making it to the Top 8 of GP Prague and winning three SCG Legacy Classics.

In late 2016, traditional Sneak & Show made a triumphant return, with Kentaro Yamamoto winning Grand Prix Chiba, the greatest success the deck has ever seen. Another copy snuck into the Top 4, while OmniSneak didn’t make it past the Top 32.

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/kentaroyamamotnvimopjexb.jpg

To be continued (…)

Ways to build the deck

The deck consists of 5 different parts that comprise the maindeck:
1. Enablers

Sneak Attack: One half of the name-sake, no card in the history of magic more effectively cheats creatures into play for such value…again and again.

Show and Tell: The other half of the equation, Show and Tell enables all the broken spells at the cost of 2U. Note that you can use it to put in Sneak Attack, saving one red mana. Unlike Sneak Attack, it is a symmetrical effect, which makes it a little more dangerous, in case your opponent puts their own Emrakul or a hate-permanent like Humility into play.

2. Fatties

Since the printing of Griselbrand, there is not much room for discussion about the main deck fatty configuration. 4 Griselbrand/ 4 Emrakul are basically set.
In the Omnisneak hybrid, 3 Omniscience made their way into the deck, removing 1 Emrakul and 1 Griselbrand.

3. The Search Engine

Brainstorm: In case you haven't heard, this card turns out to be quite strong in strategies with access to Blue mana and fetch lands.

Ponder: Next best after Brainstorm, Ponder is preferable to Preordain in this strategy because it digs a card deeper and the deck craves the pieces of its 2 card combo.

Intuition: Provides versatility within the maindeck and sideboard. Most often it grabs the most effective combo piece or creature for a given situation, though other times it grabs counter-magic or a specific sideboard piece. Intuition gets blown out by Surgical Extraction post-board, so it gets boarded out a lot.

Preordain: Offers more redundancy.

Sensei's Divining Top: Another effective card filtering option, Top is especially effective in the mid-game and against heavy-discard strategies. It is less effective against fast decks.

Gitaxian Probe: This probably belongs more in the "Protection"-paragraph, but it does some minor cantripping as well. Probe is a nice card to support Sneak & Show's main game plan - resolving a Show and Tell or Sneak Attack as fast as possible. Against Tempo, it shows you how many counters your opponent has that you need to fight through. Against Death and Taxes, you can see which hate you need to play around. In the mirror and against Reanimator you might even catch your opponent at a point where you can just win via Show and Tell into creature.
More experienced Sneak & Show players might be able to read their opponent well enough to know how many counters / hate they have, but fact is that you can't ever be 100 % sure. Gitaxian Probe dispenses with the need to "guess" and makes everything easier by just showing you what's up.
Generally, you want to cast it in the turn you go off. If you don't know what you're playing against, casting it right away is the better choice, since it allows you to make decisions like whether or not playing around cards like Stifle and Wasteland, leaving mana open to cast your Spell Pierce, etc.

4. Protection

To be able to protect the combo against control decks and discard, and to counter opposing cards that would stop the creatures from attacking like Peacekeeper, Moat, Humility, Blazing Archon, and Ensnaring Bridge, as well as taking the control-role against other combo decks, Sneak & Show utilizes a strong counter-suite that consists of:

Force of Will: Nothing to argue about here; we play a blue (nonblack) deck that needs protection so we play a playset of Forces.

Misdirection: Most often acting as a fifth Force of Will, it can also provide blowouts against cards like Hymn to Tourach and Maelstrom Pulse.

Daze: Opinions differ a lot whether or not Daze fits into Sneak & Shows counter-suit. It is another free counterspell to protect your combo, but it does set you back a whole turn if it doesn't result in an immediate win or has to be used defensively. This is especially tough for this deck, because you want to get to 3/4/5 mana as fast as possible.

Spell Pierce: Ultra efficient and versatile. Counters everything that worries the Sneak & Show player, from Counterspell, over Thoughtseize to Liliana of the Veil or Jace, the Mind Sculptor.

Flusterstorm: Some prefer Flusterstorm over Spell Pierce because it's more effective against storm strategies and Reanimator. However, the fact that it doesn't hit Planeswalkers and other non-instants/sorceries like Aether Vial makes it much more narrow than Spell Pierce.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor: Jace is very good against control decks and in the mirror, providing both another must-counter and even an alternate win-condition.

5. Acceleration and lands

Recommended stock mana configuration:

4 Scalding Tarn
3 other blue fetchlands
5 sol-lands (3-4 Ancient Tomb and 1-2 City of Traitors)
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Lotus Petal

This can be customized to fit one's own playstyle of course, but this is considered the stock manabase. Simian Spirit Guide is another playable accelerant, blanking an opponent's Daze and enabling a surprise Sneak Attack activation on your opponent's turn.

Main Deck Construction Guideline

Ultimately, this is what the stock shell currently looks like:

Traditional Sneak & Show
16 combo pieces (4 Emmy, 4 Grisel + 8 Sneak & Show)
4 Brainstorm + 4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
9 Flex-slots (e.g. Gitaxian Probe, Preordain, Spell Pierce, Misdirection, Daze, Flusterstorm, Sensei's Divining Top, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Omniscience, etc.)

OmniSneak
16 combo pieces (3 Emrakul, 3 Griselbrand, 3 Omniscience, 3 Sneak Attack, 4 Show and Tell)
2-4 Cunning Wish
1 Impulse
4 Brainstorm + 4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
0-4 Preordain / Gitaxian Probe
2-4 Spell Pierce / Flusterstorm



6. The Sideboard

There is a huge amount of options in the deck's colors. I will try to list the ones most relevant in the current (December 2016) metagame. Also, I will only include cards that have been thoroughly tested in competitive settings and have had tournament success.

Blood Moon: The best permanent answer to Karakas as well as an almost complete lock-out against many of the format's most popular decks (Eldrazi, Shardless BUG, Deathblade, BUG Delver, etc.).

Red Elemental Blast / Pyroblast: Very versatile and especially good against Delver decks, where it can act as both a counterspell and a removal for Delver of Secrets to buy some time. Also strong against cantrip-reliant combo-decks and Jace-decks like UWr Miracles and Shardless BUG.

Defense Grid: The best card we have against Tempo(Delver)-decks' huge amount of counters post-board. If you decide to play with Defense Grid, only board it in against Tempo; it's not worth it against decks with less than 8 post-board counters. Though it can be effective against Miracles, I generally don't bring it in against them, since they have threats of their own (Jace, Counterbalance) that I want to be able to counter (remember that Grid is symmetrical).

Flusterstorm: Both a possible main deck and sideboard card (more often found in the sideboard than main, though). See above for explanation.

Through the Breach: Functioning as a one-shot instant Sneak Attack, Through the Breach can work as a supplement providing further redundancy to the creature cheating strategy as well as replacing Show and Tell in the mirror match, against decks that can abuse S&T's symmetry (Reanimator/Belcher) or vs hatebear-decks like Death and Taxes that have a lot of answers to Show and Tell / Sneak Attack.

Pyroclasm / Kozilek’s Return / Sudden Shock / Grim Lavamancer: Each of those red removal spells has its pros and cons. Pyroclasm is the cheapest sweeper we have access to, but can be somewhat blanked by Death and Taxes’ Mother of Runes. Kozilek’s Return acts at instant-speed and circumvents Mother of Runes, but costs 1 colorless mana more. Sudden Shock is excellent against blue decks that play problematic hate-bears, but less useful against swarm-decks like Elves. Grim Lavamancer provides a quite different angle and is very hard to remove, since most decks don’t leave in removal against Sneak & Show.

Grafdigger's Cage: Reanimator and Dredge are some of the more difficult matchups. Cage is great against Reanimator and ok against Dredge, while also blanking both Natural Order and Green Sun's Zenith against Elves and Past in Flames vs Storm.

Surgical Extraction: Even better than Cage against Reanimator, since it can't be bounced / Abrupt Decayed. Solid against Storm and great in the mirror against Intuition and at extracting a countered Sneak Attack.

Echoing Truth and Wipe Away: Bounce against permanent-hate like Ensnaring Bridge, Humility and Pithing Needle. Echoing Truth is also very good against Empty the Warrens decks like Storm and Belcher or the Entreat the Angels tokens of Miracles. Wipe Away can bounce a fatty against Reanimator and is generally better against Miracles than Echoing Truth, because it can't be countered. It can also randomly split second bounce Karakas if they wait until your turn to bounce your Emrakul.
Note that Wipe Away should also be boarded against Storm; bouncing a land in response to a hellbent Infernal Tutor turns Wipe Away into Cancel.

Engineered Explosives: Another catch-all that can also act as a sweeper.

Jace, the Mind Sculptor: In the matchups you board him in (mirror, slow combo, creaturelight control) you will often be able to win the game with Jace alone. Especially in the mirror, he gives a huge edge and lets you play the control-role very easily.

Vendilion Clique: A very good card against other combo-decks, creating a clock while being disruptive as well. Obviously great in the mirror, but also good against control-decks that board out their spot-removal.

Boseiju, Who Shelters All: The absolute trump-card against Miracles. Also useful as a 20th land against Delver-decks and very good in the mirror.

Omniscience: Another Show and Tell target that’s very good against Death and Taxes, against Containment Priest in general and in any matchup where you could get killed if you just drop in Emrakul off of Show and Tell (Storm, mirror, Reanimator, etc.).

Matchup Analysis and how to play Sneak & Show

The way you want to play the deck differs from matchup to matchup, so the MU-analysis and the how-to fall together.

Even though Legacy is a very diverse format, I won't cover non-Tier strategies, since those are not as relevant. Questions about specific matchups against less popular decks are welcome to be asked in the thread.

Note that “key-cards from x” means their key-cards against Sneak and Show, not their key-cards in general.

Miracles 55:45

An overall positive matchup (Legend Miracles is a different story, but much more rare than the Ponder build).

They have a lot of dead cards pre-board, which forces them to draw the exact right part of their deck to have a chance in game 1. They’ll still have 4 Terminus in the pre-board games, so a mere Show and Tell into Emrakul is a somewhat risky play, if you don’t have any counter backup.

Depending on your hand, Counterbalance/Countertop can be annoying, but usually they’ll only have two 4-drops and two to four 3-drops to counter your enablers with Counterbalance.
Very few lists run Karakas, which can provide an annoying additional angle of disruption towards us.

Post-board they get access to about 6 additional counters, as well as hate-bears such as Containment Priest and disruptive creatures like Vendilion Clique.
You should also be aware of Wear // Tear, which can be quite a blow-out if you cast Sneak Attack without additional mana to activate it right away.
The post-board games tend to get very long and grindy, unless you have an early protected business spell, when they haven’t developed their mana to cast multiple of their REB / Flusterstorm effects yet.

If you’re dedicated to beat Miracles, Boseiju is your most potent sideboard option against them. You should also bring in any bounce spells and at least 1 removal (Sudden Shock is probably the most effective one against them) for a potential Containment Priest.

Key-cards from Miracles: Force of Will, Counterspell, Vendilion Clique, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Counterbalance, Pyroblast, Flusterstorm, Containment Priest, (Venser, Shaper Savant (only in Legend Miracles))

Useful sideboard cards against Miracles: Boseiju, who shelters all, Red Elemental Blast, Flusterstorm, Vendilion Clique, Through the Breach, Wipe Away, Sudden Shock, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Omniscience

Grixis Delver 40:60

One of the more annoying Delver matchups. Attacking from both the counter- and discard-angle, Grixis Delver has many ways to disrupt our game-plan, paired with a fast, cheap clock.
Most Young Pyromancer - lists nowadays have both Cabal Therapy and Spell Pierce main, in addition to the standard playsets of Force of Will and Daze.

As against every Delver deck, try to play around Daze and, if you can, around Spell Pierce as well. They might draw the wrong part of their deck (Bolts and multiple creatures) in the pre-board games, but you don’t want to get blown-out by Daze if you can avoid it.
If your opponent doesn’t know what deck you’re on in game 1, hold on to your Lotus Petals to make their blind Cabal Therapies less effective. They will most likely name Counterbalance or other Miracles-cards if you lead off with blue fetch-lands or basic Island.

Post-board, Grixis Delver loads up on counter-magic (Pyroblast and Flusterstorm, sometimes Invasive Surgery) and might add additional Cabal Therapies, paired with Surgical Extraction. Some lists also run Vendilion Clique and/or permanent-based hate like Pithing Needle, which makes up for their comparatively low number of counters for Sneak Attack (both Pyroblast and Flusterstorm don’t hit it).

Their clock gets somewhat less effective in the post-board games, since they’ll most likely board out Lightning Bolts and possibly Gurmag Angler. Mass-removal like Kozilek’s Return / Pyroclasm can buy you even more time to allow you to develop your mana-base to play around soft-counters and sculpt a hand that can overwhelm one or two hard-counters.
Blood Moon is often too slow against them, especially on the draw. Sometimes, they can even let it resolve and kill you with a Young Pyromancer, backed up by Force of Will(s) and Pyroblast(s). Against the 4-color Delver versions without Young Pyromancer it can be viable to bring in Blood Moon, more on the play than on the draw, however.

Key-cards from Grixis Delver: Force of Will, Daze, Young Pyromancer, Cabal Therapy, Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, Pyroblast, Surgical Extraction

Useful sideboard card against Grixis Delver: Flusterstorm, REB, Pyroclasm/Kozilek’s Return, Sudden Shock, Grim Lavamancer, Wipe Away / Echoing Truth, Defense Grid, Engineered Explosives

Colorless Eldrazi Stompy 60:40

Unlike other combo decks like Storm, Sneak and Show doesn’t get hit as hard by Chalice of the Void, which makes the Eldrazi matchup slightly positive overall. Still, there are certain draws from them that are very hard to beat; usually involving an early Thought-Knot Seer or an Endbringer they put into play off of your Show and Tell.
They also have the potential to curve out into a turn 4/5 kill, so a late Show and Tell can sometimes get raced.
You should also be wary of getting caught off-guard by Warping Wail, even though they’ll usually tap out to cast their threats instead of leaving mana open to cast Wail, especially if they don’t know that you’re on Sneak and Show.

This matchup is slightly easier for the OmniSneak variant, since Omniscience doesn’t care about Endbringer and Show and Tell into Omniscience Emrakul can beat some scenarios where Show and Tell Emrakul would lose to an alpha-swing.

Post-board the they get access to Thorn of Amethyst effects, which are annoying, but not back-breaking. Some lists also run Revoker / Pithing Needle, so you should board in bounce-spells, removal and Through the Breach to hedge against that.
Blood Moon is a huge trump-card against Eldrazi, locking them out of casting their most relevant creatures, Thought-Knot Seer, Eldrazi Smasher and Endbringer.

Note that the white Eldrazi version (containing both Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Thalia, Heretic Cathar, as well as Karakas) is a much more problematic matchup. Luckily, the Colorless variant is much more popular.

Key-cards from Colorless Eldrazi Stompy: Thought-Knot Seer, Endbringer, Warping Wail Thorn of Amethyst, Phyrexian Revoker / Pithing Needle

Useful sideboard cards against Colorless Eldrazi Stompy: Blood Moon, Through the Breach, Wipe Away / Echoing Truth, Omniscience


Death and Taxes 35:65

One of the most difficult matchups, the most difficult of the tier decks. Their main deck contains a high amount of disruptive permanents, from annoying tax-effects like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (paired with Rishadan Port) to Phyrexian Revoker hard-locks (either Phyrexian Revoker on Sneak Attack + Sanctum Prelate on 3 or Revoker on Sneak Attack + Karakas).

Pre-board, you should just jam your combo as early as possible and hope they don’t have an answer, which is unlikely, but possible. Waiting for Sneak Attack to play around a potential Karakas will only leave you vulnerable to Phyrexian Revoker. Especially an early Griselbrand via Show and Tell can be a route to victory, drawing enough cards to be able to kill through a single hate-piece like Karakas or Sanctum Prelate.
In the post-board games, you get some significant interaction to break their locks (Kozilek’s Return even gets around Mother of Runes), and the matchup becomes much less hopeless. They get access to some additional hate, like Pithing Needle, but overall, most of their relevant hate is in the main deck already.

Thanks to Omniscience and Cunning Wish (which can find Kozilek’s Return), OmniSneak has a much easier Death and Taxes matchup than traditional Sneak and Show, even though Revoker + Prelate on 3 is still a (pre-board) lock.

If you expect a lot of Death and Taxes in any given tournament, adding dedicated sideboard answers like Sulfur Elemental, Progenitus (they can’t beat Show and Tell into Progenitus) or Massacre Wurm / Inferno Titan is a viable option. Main deck answers to Phyrexian Revoker, such as Fire // Ice, are also an effective possibility.

Key-cards from Death and Taxes: Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Phyrexian Revoker, Sanctum Prelate, Karakas, Palace Jailer (rare), Pithing Needle

Useful sideboard cards against Death and Taxes: Kozilek’s Return / Pyroclasm, Sudden Shock, Grim Lavamancer, Wipe Away / Echoing Truth, Engineered Explosives, Blood Moon, Through the Breach, Omniscience

Show and Tell mirror

The mirror, be it the “real mirror” or the one against Omnitell, is a rather unpleasant affair and comes down to luck a lot of the time. However, there still are some guidelines one can follow to increase their chances.

Generally, you should wait for your opponent to make the first move. If you have Sneak Attack with double FoW backup, it’s a different story, but often times if you go for it with one counter-backup, they’ll have two and kill you on their following turn.
I like to assume the hard-control role in the mirror, playing draw-go while making my land drops for as long as possible. If I can manage it, I’ll only go off when I draw the 8th card for my turn and have a hand full of counters for protection.

Gitaxian Probe obviously helps a lot in the mirror, and, just like Omniscience, allows you to leave in a few Show and Tells for the post-board games. It also allows you to catch your opponent off-guard, if they kept a counterless hand, in which case you can combo off much earlier than you’d usually do with the defensive playstyle where you have to assume the worst from your opponent’s hand.

If you’re really dedicated to increase your chances in the mirror, Vendilion Clique, Boseiju, who shelters all, Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Through the Breach should probably be somewhere in your 75.

Key-cards in the mirror: Sneak Attack, Force of Will, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Boseiju, who shelters all, Through the Breach, Omniscience, Vendilion Clique

Useful sideboard cards in the mirror: Vendilion Clique, Omniscience, Boseiju, who shelters all, Through the Breach, Flusterstorm, REB

Storm (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) 55:45

A very close matchup. Pre-board your goal should be to get Griselbrand into play as fast as possible. As long as you are at a healthy life total you can't really lose from there (remember to activate Griselbrand only when you need to find a counter, otherwise you leave yourself vulnerable to their discard). Show and Tell Emrakul after Turn 2 often just results in dying on your opponent's turn, so you should only go for it if it's the only thing you can do.

Spell Piercing or even using Force of Will on a Ritual can be necessary, so keep an eye on the amount of cards in their hand and think how much mana they could still generate. Letting a Dark Ritual resolve might just blank your Force of Will because of a Duress or Cabal Therapy cast after the resolved Ritual.
They will rarely go off without at least one form of protective disruption against you, so if they cast a Duress on Turn 2 and start Ritualing on Turn 3 while you drew a Force of Will after their Duress, you can definitely save that counter for their Infernal Tutor or other business spell.
If they didn't cast a discard spell yet and only have one :b: - producing land in play countering the Ritual they cast with that land is often the right way.

Post-board many ANT lists have access to Xantid Swarm, which is very annoying, since it even blanks Griselbrand. Therefore, you should always board 1-2 sweepers against Storm, which also hit a potential Empty the Warrens or Dark Confidant.
Other problematic sideboard cards from them are Flusterstorm, which can catch you off-guard very easily, and Karakas, though that is a rather rare choice nowadays.

Note that Wipe Away turns into a Cancel, when it bounces a land in response to a hellbent Infernal Tutor, which is pretty neat.

Use REB to counter their cantrips / Probes aggressively.

This matchup takes a lot of practice and you definitely need to know how ANT operates to fight it optimally.

Key-cards from Storm: Cabal Therapy + Duress, Past in Flames, Xantid Swarm

Useful sideboard cards against Storm: Flusterstorm, REB, Grafdigger’s Cage / Surgical Extraction, Echoing Truth / Engineered Explosives / Pyroclasm / Kozilek’s Return, Omniscience

BR Reanimator 45:55

One of the fastest combo decks around these days, BR Reanimator has replaced its UB brother in the Legacy metagame for the most part. UB Reanimator was one of the most difficult matchups for Sneak and Show. Thankfully, BR is somewhat easier, since they only have discard as disruption.
However, the matchup is still very scary and I always know that I have a tough match ahead of me when my opponent shows me Chancellor of the Annex as the first turn starts.

Cantrip-heavy hands are quite good against their heavy discard-plan. Show and Tell gets cast more often than you’d think against BR Reanimator, since they often empty their whole hand of fatties with Faithless Looting. Plus, unless they have Griselbrand or Tidespout Tyrant, you can overpower a Chancellor of the Annex (the most likely creature they could have, since it’s the only 4-of fatty in most lists) or Sire of Insanity off of a Show and Tell quite easily.

Note that Intuition is a cute answer to Exhume, since you can search for 3 Griselbrands to exhume one into play.

Post-board you can take on the control role very nicely, with additional counters and graveyard-hate, plus Vendilion Clique, Jace and Through the Breach as additional finishers. They get access to Pithing Needle, so remember to board your bounce spells in; incidentally, Wipe Away and Echoing Truths are also quite efficient answers to many of their fatties.

You have to accept that there will be some hands from BR Reanimator you won’t ever beat, but if the game goes long, you are heavily favored, especially post-board.

Key-cards from BR Reanimator: Chancellor of the Annex, Unmask, Thoughtseize, Pithing Needle, Blazing Archon

Useful sideboard cards against BR Reanimator: Flusterstorm, Through the Breach, Grafdigger’s Cage / Surgical Extraction, Echoing Truth / Wipe Away, Vendilion Clique, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Omniscience


Shardless BUG 60:40

One of the easier matchups. They only have 4 Force of Wills and about 6 discard-spells to disrupt you pre-board, as well as the occasional Liliana of the Veil or Jace, the Mind Sculptor to punish an unprotected Show and Tell into Emrakul (you should still go for it most of the time, since many Shardless BUG lists have cut down on planeswalkers).
Their clock is also rather slow, which gives you a lot of time to find your combo pieces. As against all discard-heavy strategies, cantrips are very effective against them and are the cards you most want to see in your opening hand. Spell Pierce also does a lot of work against their discard and Planeswalkers.
Misdirection is definitely your card with the most blowout-potential against Shardless BUG, hitting both Maelstrom Pulse and Hymn to Tourach, even Ancestral Vision!

Post-board they bring in additional discard and disruptive permanents like Pithing Needle or Vendilion Clique. Some lists used to run Meddling Mage, but he has largely disappeared from their sideboards.
They also usually have some number of Golgari Charms, which makes a naked Sneak Attack (without mana to activate it) a little riskier. Still, most often you should rather take the small chance of them having Golgari Charm than having your Sneak Attack discarded by a Thoughtseize or Hymn to Tourach, which is much more likely.

You get to board in a lot of bombs against them, including Blood Moon, Jace TMS, Through the Breach and clean answers to many of their threats, like Red Elemental Blasts and Vendilion Clique (which is great against their planeswalkers).
Even though almost all lists play 2 basics these days, Blood Moon is still very often game-ending against them.

Key-cards from Shardless BUG: Hymn to Tourach, Thoughtseize, Force of Will, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Liliana of the Veil, Pithing Needle, Vendilion Clique

Useful sideboard cards against Shardless BUG: Blood Moon, REB, Flusterstorm, Through the Breach, Echoing Truth / Wipe Away / Engineered Explosives, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Vendilion Clique

Lands 65:35

Lands is one of the easiest matchups, even more so for the OmniSneak version.
Their only way to win pre-board is a fast Marit Lage arrival. Their grind-engines around Life from the Loam and Punishing Fire are mostly useless against you. Try to counter their Explorations, Gambles and Crop Rotations and remember most lists don’t have Karakas main deck, so Show and Tell Emrakul is often good enough in the pre-board games.

Most Lands builds these days have moved away from Rishadan Port, replacing it with Ghost Quarter, which is much less disruptive for us than Port.

Post-board they get access to Sphere of Resistance, which is quite annoying, especially when their mana denial plan works. Still, we have enough sol-lands and Lotus Petals that it shouldn’t matter too much. If you have a hand that is soft to Sphere, it is very viable to FoW it.
Blood Moon is an obvious blow-out against them, even though they have Krosan Grip as an out to it. Also be wary of Grip when casting Sneak Attack. For example, if you have 4 mana and an uncracked fetch-land, crack it before casting Sneak Attack, since they might Krosan Grip it if you fetch to activate after resolving Sneak Attack.

Key-cards from Lands: Crop Rotation, Exploration, Dark Depths + Thespian Stage, Sphere of Resistance, Krosan Grip

Useful sideboard cards against Lands: Blood Moon, Through the Breach, Wipe Away / Echoing Truth, Vendilion Clique, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Omniscience

Aggro Loam (4 color Loam) 60:40

Similar to Lands, Aggro Loam is an overall positive matchup, though a bit trickier than Lands.
They have quite a few answers to Show and Tell into creature, in the form of Knight of the Reliquary (searching up Karakas) and Liliana of the Veil. Most of their other main-deck disruption, like Chalice of the Void, doesn’t matter too much against you.
Dark Confidant and Green Sun’s Zenith (x=2 Gaddock Teeg, x=3 Knight of the Reliquary) are among their most dangerous cards (along with Knight and Liliana).

Note that you can still get Sneak Attack on the battlefield with Gaddock Teeg on board by Show and Telling it into play.

Their boarding plan contains discard and some potential hate-bears, which increases their chances only minimally, since you get access to removal and huge bombs like Blood Moon.

Key-cards from Aggro Loam: Knight of the Reliquary, Karakas, Liliana of the Veil, Gaddock Teeg, Dark Confidant, Thoughtseize, Containment Priest (rare)

Useful sideboard cards against Aggro Loam: Blood Moon, Through the Breach, Pyroclasm / Kozilek’s Return / Grim Lavamancer / Sudden Shock, Engineered Explosives / Wipe Away / Echoing Truth, Vendilion Clique

Esper Deathblade 60:40

A rather positive matchup, which gets much more difficult post-board.

Pre-board they usually have some amount of Spell Pierces and Thoughtseizes alongside the playset of Force of Will. Stoneforge Mystic provides a fast-clock and Liliana of the Veil is very difficult to deal with. Other than that, most of their deck is rather useless against you, so unless they draw the right part of their deck, game 1 should be heavily in your favor.

Post-board they get access to a variety of hate-cards, attacking you from different angles with additional discard (more Thoughtseizes, sometimes Duress), counters (Flusterstorm / Invasive Surgery / more Spell Pierces, sometimes even Blue Elemental Blast) and hate-bears (Containment Priest, Meddling Mage).
You get to bring in some impactful cards like Blood Moon and removal for the hate-bears or Stoneforge Mystic, which buys you a lot of time. The games will usually go very long post-board, unless you have an explosive hand you manage to push through.

Key-cards from Esper Deathblade: Force of Will, Spell Pierce, Thoughtseize, Liliana of the Veil, Flusterstorm, Invasive Surgery, Containment Priest, Meddling Mage, Notion Thief

Useful sideboard cards against Esper Deathblade: Blood Moon, REB, Flusterstorm, Through the Breach, Pyroclasm / Kozilek’s Return / Sudden Shock / Grim Lavamancer, Echoing Truth / Wipe Away, Engineered Explosives, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Vendilion Clique

UR Delver 60:40

One of the easiest Delver matchups. Even though they have a fast clock, their only disruption comes in the form of counters (4 Daze 4 Force of Will main), so it’s usually not difficult to resolve an early Show and Tell.

Even though they don’t play Wasteland, try to avoid fetching too many Volcanic Islands, to hedge against Price of Progress.

If you have the choice between dropping Emrakul or Griselbrand off Show and Tell, try to go for Emrakul early on and Griselbrand in the later stages when your life total is low enough that you could get alpha swung to death through an Emrakul.

Post-board they get additional counters, usually Pyroblast and Spell Pierce / Flusterstorm, as well as Pithing Needle as an out to Sneak Attack.
Some lists run Sulfuric Vortex in their sideboard, so keep that in mind when deciding between Emrakul and Griselbrand off Show and Tell.

Red Elemental Blast is one of your best cards against UR Delver, acting as both protection for the combo and removal against Delver of Secrets and Stormchaser Mage.

Key-cards from UR Delver: Force of Will, Daze, Pyroblast, Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, Pithing Needle, Sulfuric Vortex

Useful sideboard cards against UR Delver: REB, Defense Grid, Flusterstorm, Pyroclasm / Kozilek’s Return / Sudden Shock / Grim Lavamancer, Echoing Truth / Wipe Away, Engineered Explosives, Boseiju, who shelters all

Elves 65:35

A very positive matchup that can get more difficult if they construct their sideboard hatefully enough.

Pre-board their only way to win is to race you. In order to do that, they usually need to resolve either Glimpse of Nature or Natural Order, for which you have both Force of Will and often Spell Pierce as well. Keep in mind that they have access to Reclamation Sage in game 1 and no way to strip Sneak Attack out of your hand (again, pre-board), so try to avoid playing a naked Sneak Attack and passing the turn.

Unlike with other decks, you don’t care about the Wirewood Symbiote / Elvish Visionary[CARDS] value engine, so usually, there is no need for you to counter either of them.

There will be times where you struggle to assemble the combo and you’ll get beaten down by the little pointy ears, but generally you should be able to hold them off of their combo and end the game in the first few turns.

Post-board they’ll usually have some amount of discard to interact with you, but you also improve your position after sideboarding with mass-removal and Grafdigger’s Cage. Games get a lot grindier post-board, but they’ll get punished very hard if they don’t mulligan aggressively for hands with discard.
Some few lists run [CARDS]Crop Rotation + Karakas in the sideboard, so be prepared for that, even though it is rather rare.

Key-cards from Elves: Glimpse of Nature, Natural Order, Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize, Pithing Needle

Useful sideboard cards against Elves: Grafdigger’s Cage, Pyroclasm / Kozilek’s Return / Sudden Shock, Grim Lavamancer, Flusterstorm, Echoing Truth / Wipe Away, Engineered Explosives

General early-game plan

As you can see, your game-approach changes quite a bit from matchup to matchup. Still, often you don't know which deck your opponent is on and don't know whether you should fetch for a basic, Ponder on Turn 1 or rather keep up your Spell Pierce to counter their discard.
Gitaxian Probe helps a lot here, another reason why it fits the deck so well.

Some general tips if you are on the play and have no idea what deck your opponent is playing:

Always fetch up a basic island if you want to go for turn 1 Ponder.


If you Ponder and don't shuffle, try to play around discard by leaving your business / important spells on top instead of drawing them.



If you have the choice between turn 1 Ponder and keeping up Spell Pierce without a Force of Will in hand, always keep up Spell Pierce against discard and fast combo decks.



If you have a Spell Pierce and a Brainstorm with a land and a Lotus Petal, it can be ok to give away information by playing Lotus Petal, since it gives you the ability to cast both Spell Pierce and Brainstorm if you are forced to.


Tips and Tricks

Even though you don't have that much room for interesting plays like other decks do, there are still some "tricks" to get around certain hate cards or bait a response that benefits you out of your opponent.

How to beat Karakas
I assume everyone who played with or against Sneak & Show before knows how this works, but it might help the others.
To do this you need :r: and Emrakul, it doesn't work with Griselbrand. If you have RR you can start it in your turn, with only R you have to wait until your opponent's end of turn. Then you activate Sneak Attack, putting Emrakul into play and enter your turn. You give your opponent priority in your beginning of combat step. If they bounce Emrakul then, you regain priority, and can activate Sneak Attack again to put Emrakul back into play. If your opponent lets you move to the declare attackers step and bounces Emrakul in response to the Annihilator trigger, they don't lose life, but you can just kill them on the following turn, because their board will be wiped and you get to keep Emrakul in hand.
The easiest way around Karakas is Blood Moon or a surprise Wipe Away. :wink:

How to use Griselbrand
I have seen many players die with Griselbrand on board, because they get greedy or use his ability at the wrong time. This shouldn't happen, if you try to follow these guidelines:


Never activate Griselbrand's ability against Delver decks with Lightning Bolt, unless you absolutely have to.



Don't activate Griselbrand in your turn against Combo decks that protect themselves via discard. Let them cast their discard spells with a small amount of cards in hand and wait for their business spell to go onto the stack to dig for your Force of Will(s).



Sneaky Griselbrand can block

If you are at a low life total (let's say below 14) or your opponent has a lot of power on the board, sneaking in Griselbrand and hope to draw an Emrakul can be very risky. In this case it's better to activate Sneak Attack after your opponent declared attackers, block his strongest creature, and draw cards on his turn.
You can also use this fact as a bait if you have Sneak Attack in play but no creature. Tap your red source around for a bit, pretending to think about putting Griselbrand into play and attacking, then pass the turn. That might keep your opponent from attacking in fear of a blocking lifelink demon.

Misdirection vs Stifle

When playing against a Stifle-deck, you always want to play around it (if you have no Brainstorm in hand). If you have Misdirection in hand, the playing-around means you can activate your fetchland in response to an activated/triggered ability of your opponent. If they Stifle your fetchland ability you can Misdirect that Stifle to their own trigger. You often want to keep your Misdirection for their counterspells, but it's an interaction you need to know of. Especially if resolving your fetch can mean playing around their soft-counters, it's often worth it to use your Misdirection, because it hurts their plan as well as helping yours to get around soft-counters.

Decklists

If you need a list for some initial testing before you make tweaks of your own, here are three tried and tested lists I’d recommend; one Preordain-build, one Gitaxian Probe - build, and the latest OmniSneak stock list:

Kentaro Yamamoto’s Sneak and Show
1st at GP Chiba November 2016

3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Show and Tell
4 Spell Pierce

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Lotus Petal
4 Sneak Attack

SIDEBOARD
3 Blood Moon
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Vendilion Clique

Gitaxian Sneak and Show

3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Spell Pierce

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Lotus Petal
4 Sneak Attack

SIDEBOARD
2 Blood Moon
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Defense Grid
1 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroclasm
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Sudden Shock
2 Through the Breach
1 Wipe Away

JPA93's OmniSneak
25th at GP Louisville January 2017

3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island

3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand

4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
1 Impulse
1 Intuition
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Show and Tell
2 Spell Pierce

3 Lotus Petal
3 Omniscience
3 Sneak Attack

SIDEBOARD
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Defense Grid
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Flusterstorm
1 Intuition
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Pyroclasm
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Release the Ants
1 Sudden Shock
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Through the Breach
1 Trickbind
1 Wipe Away

Sneak and Show in action

Here are some great feature matches from GP Chiba (November), where Kentaro Yamamoto won the title with Sneak and Show.

Kentaro Yamamoto vs Death and Taxes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rVUUoeY9k8)
Kentaro Yamamoto vs Sneak and Show mirror (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlZ0Aw5HNSI)
Kentaro Yamamoto vs Miracles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9OsfinkKuU)


Sample Sideboarding Guide

As it is with probably every deck, there is no 100 % correct way to board with Sneak & Show. It's especially important that you construct your sideboard in a way that it is not clustered against a certain archetype, since you can seldom afford to board out too many cards without making your main game plan worse.

However, here are some guidelines, using the Gitaxian Probe list from the Decklists section:

Miracles:

-2 Lotus Petal
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 City of Traitors

+1 Boseiju, who shelters all
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 REB
+1 Sudden Shock
+2 Through the Breach

Grixis Delver:

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-4 Spell Pierce (You don't need Spell Pierce when you have Defense Grid)

+2 Defense Grid
+1 Flusterstorm
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Sudden Shock
+1 REB
+1 Wipe Away
+1 Boseiju, who shelters all


Colorless Eldrazi Stompy:

-2 Gitaxian Probe
-4 Spell Pierce
-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

+2 Blood Moon
+2 Through the Breach
+1 Wipe Away
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Sudden Shock

Death and Taxes:

-4 Spell Pierce
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-3 Gitaxian Probe

+2 Blood Moon
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Sudden Shock
+2 Through the Breach
+1 Wipe Away

Show and Tell Mirror:

-2 Show and Tell
-2 Lotus Petal
-1 Mountain

+1 Boseiju, who shelters all
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 REB
+2 Through the Breach

Storm (Ad Nauseam Tendrils):

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Mountain
-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

+1 Flusterstorm
+2 Grafdigger's Cage
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 REB
+1 Wipe Away

BR Reanimator:

-1 Mountain
-1 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Griselbrand
-3 Show and Tell

+1 Flusterstorm
+2 Grafdigger's Cage
+2 Through the Breach
+1 Wipe Away

Shardless BUG:

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Lotus Petal
-2 Force of Will

+2 Blood Moon
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 REB
+2 Through the Breach
+1 Wipe Away

Lands:

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Force of Will on the play / -2 Spell Pierce on the draw

+2 Blood Moon
+2 Through the Breach
+1 Wipe Away

Aggro Loam:

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-2 Force of Will on the play / -2 Spell Pierce on the draw

+2 Blood Moon
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Sudden Shock
+2 Through the Breach
+1 Wipe Away

Esper Deathblade:

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-4 Force of Will
-2 Lotus Petal

+2 Blood Moon
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 REB
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Sudden Shock
+1 Wipe Away
+1 Through the Breach

UR Delver:

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-1 Ancient Tomb
-1 Sneak Attack
-2 Force of Will

+1 Boseiju, who shelters all
+2 Defense Grid
+1 Flusterstorm
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Sudden Shock
+1 REB
+1 Wipe Away

Elves:

-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Sneak Attack

+1 Flusterstorm
+2 Grafdigger's Cage
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Wipe Away

[rxavage]

New primer is the mutt's nuts, good job.

[JPA]

Thanks rxavage. The primer is still in progress, more sections like "How to identify you play against X" (similar to what apple713 did) and "Tips and Tricks" will be added soon.


@apple713: I appreciate your work, but there are a few mistakes in what you wrote; you also left out UWR Delver completely. Here are some corrections:


Please do that exercise that anziD recommended. Identifying decks on the first turn or 2 is critical. The easiest Identifier as to what deck is sitting across from you is typically its land base. Many decks keep a fetch land in play until their second turn and its difficult until they actually use them. However many turn 1 plays reveal what your opponent is playing, or at least the type of deck they are playing.

few examples

Land: rishadan port <---- if this is the first land its usually D&T unless lands / goblins kept a bad hand, or goblins drops a vial.
Deck: Goblins / death and taxes / 43 lands / MUD
Type - Aggro - just win fast The only aggro deck there is Goblins. The rest is pretty hard control. "Just win fast" seems like a pretty loose plan against them, since they usually have hate cards against Show and Tell. "Try to win via Sneak Attack" seems like a better advice.

Land: mutavault
Deck: merfolk / Slivers
Type - Tempo - watch out for counters

Land: Karakas / plains
Deck: death and taxes ( Esper Blade, UWr Miracles)
type: Anti Sneak attack - get lucky :P

Land: taiga
Deck: Jund / 43 lands / zoo <--- if you see this in your meta it expect to win :P could theoretically be Goblins or BURG, but very unlikely that they lead off with Taiga
Type aggro / control - expect to win


Land: Bayou
Deck: BUG / Jund / Nic Fit / loam Pox (ANT)
Type: Aggro / control - expect discard


Land: tropical island
Deck: RUG / Bant <---- you play against this just about the same as you play against RUG so it doesn't really matter Bant is completely different from RUG. Against RUG, you can't lose after resolving Show and Tell. Bant plays Knight of the Reliquary, Karakas and Jace.
All BUG-versions play Tropical Island, too. Deathblade has a 1-of Tropical Island as well
Type: Tempo (watch for counter spells) / Control (if it's Shardless BUG or Deathblade)


Land: Ancient tomb / city of traitors
Deck: Dragon stumpy / Imperial Painter / MUD / Stax / Sneak Attack <------ should refrain from playing either of those turn 1 unless you are casting show and tell / sneak attack UB Tezzerator
Type: Control - Chalice of void on 1, watch out for phyrexian revoker.

Land: Volcanic island
Deck: RUG / Sneak Attack / UWR Delver / ANT / TES

Land: Underground Sea
Deck: Reanimator / BUG / Team America / Esper / ANT (5 Good decks use it, probably why its it most expensive) TES
Type: Tricky one - but expect minor disruption like daze / spell pierce / discard Underground Sea without a turn 1 play is most likely to be Esper Blade, since they only have Thoughtseize as a good proactive t1 play. U-Sea into Duress/Cabal Therapy is Storm, Deathrite Shaman is Shardless BUG/Team America/Deathblade

Land: Scrubland
Deck: Esper / Rock
Type: Aggro - expect swords to plowshares Why is Swords to Plowshares the relevant card we have to expect from Esper / Rock? Karakas/Knight of the Reliquary paired with Discard and Liliana of the Veil is what we should fear about Scrubland

Land: Savannah
Deck: Maverick
Type: Aggro - expect swords to plowshares again, Karakas is what we should play around, Swords to Plowshares is irrelevant

Land: Tundra
Deck: Miracles / Esper UW(R) Delver!!
Type: Control / aggro - expect swords to plowshares / watch out for karakas / play around counters if it is not UWR Delver, you can expect to have a lot of time setting up your combo.

Land: Plateau
Deck: ??? Goblins
Type: Rouge

Land: Gemstone Mine / Cephalid Colosseum / City of Brass
Deck: Dredge / Hypergenesis / TES Legacy Hypergenesis operates with a fetchland manabase and Spirit Guides, they play none of those lands
Type: Combo / expect discard

Land: island
Deck: High tide / omnitell / Merfolk Sneak & Show / Esper / ANT / Reanimator
Type: combo / control - expect counters

Spell: Aether vial
Deck: Goblins / Death and Taxes / Merfolk / Slivers

Spell: Sensei's divining top
Deck: Miracles / Nic Fit / Combo decks

Spell: Preordain
Deck: High tide / omnitell / ANT (maybe surely ^^)


I will add my own version to the matchup-section in the primer soon.

[JPA]

Added the "how to identify" section. Please tell me how you like the approach and direction.

[Technicolor Mage]

Added the "how to identify" section. Please tell me how you like the approach and direction.


I like it, well done!!


Does anyone know how the U/G Show and tell deck performed today. That brew looks like a lot of fun with some interesting tech choices. Anyone who didn't see it, check out deck tech on SCG at this link

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_ug_show__tell_with_b.html

[apple713]

@JPA

You have made some good additions. By no means was my post comprehensive. I started writing just whatever came to mind and i was surprised that it amounted to all that.

Anyways, you don't want to cram too much into the heads of beginners.You additions have include all possibilities small or big. For example

Land: Karakas / plains
Deck: death and taxes ( Esper Blade, UWr Miracles)
type: Anti Sneak attack - get lucky :P


While it is possible that esper / miracles will get a karakas / plains on t1 it is significantly less likely that it will turn out to be esper or miracles as opposed to death and taxes. What this translates to is, if I see a plains on t1 I'll try to combo off on my following turn without FOW back up. If I see a blue source, or something i suspect to play FOW/spell pierce, I'm probably not going to take that chance.

I would recommend adding your changes to what I wrote and combining it with what you wrote up for the turn 1 plays.

Swords isn't that big a deal unless you have griselbrand, then you need to have mana open to counter spell it or hopefully get a force.

For some reason I'm not too afraid of karakas. It just means your are forced to win with sneak attack which is my preferred method of victory anyways.

[JPA]

@JPA

Swords isn't that big a deal unless you have griselbrand, then you need to have mana open to counter spell it or hopefully get a force.

For some reason I'm not too afraid of karakas. It just means your are forced to win with sneak attack which is my preferred method of victory anyways.

Even if you don't have Force of Will, the 7-14 (you draw 7 "for free" because of the lifegain from Stp) cards you will draw are very likely to win you the game on the next turn. Swords is a dead card against Sneak & Show.

It's not difficult to play around Karakas, sure. But it's still a better answer an opponent can have to our strategy than Swords to Plowshares.

[nodahero]

I would disagree with you APT. If your Griselbrand is StPd and not by your choice, I would wager that those 14 cards in your hand may not be enough to win.

Yes, you could get something nutty like Sneak, Grisel, Emmy infinite petals but, if you don't make it to the next turn that does you no good.

I think for your anaylsis to be more accurate, in hindsight, we should have analyzed a more precise game state. i.e. how stocked are our hands and what does the board look like. I would bet you dollars to sense you lose if the StP was out of D&T assuming the game has played out normally.

Also at Ben Weinberg's deck... I'm really not overly impressed by the deck. I think it would be SUPER fun but I doubt if it is a long term deck. I dislike the idea of a "super" Show and Tell when generally I only want to put in one card. What I mean is if we say break magic down into a game in which we assign a value to each card... Lets say Griselbrand is worth 5 cards and we spent 1 by playing Eureka we get a net value of 3 cards 5-Eureka-Grisel= 3. Now if we consider every card our opponents put into play they get, lets say 3 cards off of our Eureka. Making our net value 0 card as opposed to Grisel and show being a net 3 and our opponent getting 1 which leaves us with a net 2.

[apple713]

I would disagree with you APT. If your Griselbrand is StPd and not by your choice, I would wager that those 14 cards in your hand may not be enough to win.

Yes, you could get something nutty like Sneak, Grisel, Emmy infinite petals but, if you don't make it to the next turn that does you no good.

I think for your anaylsis to be more accurate, in hindsight, we should have analyzed a more precise game state. i.e. how stocked are our hands and what does the board look like. I would bet you dollars to sense you lose if the StP was out of D&T assuming the game has played out normally.

Also at Ben Weinberg's deck... I'm really not overly impressed by the deck. I think it would be SUPER fun but I doubt if it is a long term deck. I dislike the idea of a "super" Show and Tell when generally I only want to put in one card. What I mean is if we say break magic down into a game in which we assign a value to each card... Lets say Griselbrand is worth 5 cards and we spent 1 by playing Eureka we get a net value of 3 cards 5-Eureka-Grisel= 3. Now if we consider every card our opponents put into play they get, lets say 3 cards off of our Eureka. Making our net value 0 card as opposed to Grisel and show being a net 3 and our opponent getting 1 which leaves us with a net 2.

Eureka is a card to watch. Get them while they are cheap. When WOTC prints another permanent type it'll be good. I think the way he built the deck was interesting but could use much more tweaking

[Technicolor Mage]

I missed BBD's top 8 performance, did anyone watch it?

Was OmniTell's win a fluke because the meta wasn't prepared for it, or was it a legit win

[AnziD]

I missed BBD's top 8 performance, did anyone watch it?

Was OmniTell's win a fluke because the meta wasn't prepared for it, or was it a legit win

Top 8 of the Invitational was Standard this time around. For future reference, the Invitational order switches every event, so at the next Invitational it'll be 4 Legacy 4 Standard 4 Legacy 4 Standard Top 8 Legacy and for the one after that it'll be 4 Standard 4 Legacy 4 Standard 4 Legacy Top 8 Standard and so on and so on.

[CabalTherapy]

Nice primer, pal. Even though I'm not a Sneaky player I've enjoyed reading it.
But it lacks: Gemstone Mine, go

[JPA]

I would disagree with you APT. If your Griselbrand is StPd and not by your choice, I would wager that those 14 cards in your hand may not be enough to win.

Yes, you could get something nutty like Sneak, Grisel, Emmy infinite petals but, if you don't make it to the next turn that does you no good.

I think for your anaylsis to be more accurate, in hindsight, we should have analyzed a more precise game state. i.e. how stocked are our hands and what does the board look like. I would bet you dollars to sense you lose if the StP was out of D&T assuming the game has played out normally.


I'm sorry, but I don't really want to argue about in which situation Swords to Plowshares is a good card against us. It's a bad card, often dead, and should be boarded out every time.
If you think it's good because there can be situations where the Sneak & Show player COMPLETELY bricks on 14 cards (no Force of Will, no new combo, etc.), goes to 8+ life from STP, and gets dealt 8+ dmg next turn, then I can't change your mind about that and we agree to disagree.


Nice primer, pal. Even though I'm not a Sneaky player I've enjoyed reading it.
But it lacks: Gemstone Mine, go

Thanks. That particular section lacks a lot, more will be added over time.

[nodahero]

I don't disagree with StP being bad. I have seen multiple instances where StP simply wrecked me g1 because D&T had an aggressive start and my grisel couldn't save himself and I lost due to the pressure.

[oneiros76]

Slightly off topic but still pretty amusing, at eternal champs I was waffling on what to play for vintage so ported my legacy sneak and show deck and made this happen:

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy75/oneiros76/20131101_170036_zpscd32e3a1.jpg

turn 1 duress into two show and tells. still lost this game!

[apple713]

Slightly off topic but still pretty amusing, at eternal champs I was waffling on what to play for vintage so ported my legacy sneak and show deck and made this happen:

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy75/oneiros76/20131101_170036_zpscd32e3a1.jpg

turn 1 duress into two show and tells. still lost this game!

Thats pretty crappy luck.

On a side not I have point out I have never seen anyone with the same spell ground playmat as me except for you. Mine isn't drawn on but same style and color. Most people would get distracted by the black lotus in the grave and the three beta mox's in play... I notice the playmat...hahaha

[JPA]

still lost this game!

How? xD

[apple713]

How? xD

S&t 1 - time vault
S&t 2 - voltaic key

Or

Yawgmoths bargain

Or

Bazaar of baghdad

Or

Oath of druids -> tidespout tyrant

Or ... This could get to be a very long list

[Technicolor Mage]

Top 8 of the Invitational was Standard this time around. For future reference, the Invitational order switches every event, so at the next Invitational it'll be 4 Legacy 4 Standard 4 Legacy 4 Standard Top 8 Legacy and for the one after that it'll be 4 Standard 4 Legacy 4 Standard 4 Legacy Top 8 Standard and so on and so on.

Thanks for that tidbit:eek:

So, in this particular tournament when I see that BBD finished 6th with Show and Tell, does this mean it was his ranking based on all the swiss rounds? Sorry, I am confused, I always assumed that in every large tournament you played your swiss rounds, and the computer did the rest in figuring out your exact percentages as to how you stacked up against the field. Then the top 8 faced off in single elimination based on their seeding.

Even more on topic, I noticed his list does not run City of Traitors. I also see in the primer talk of Gemstone Mine, yet haven't seen a recent list running this land? What gives? I thought the list was pretty airtight

EDIT: My post count shrunk, is this because the other thread was archived?

[JPA]

So, in this particular tournament when I see that BBD finished 6th with Show and Tell, does this mean it was his ranking based on all the swiss rounds? Sorry, I am confused, I always assumed that in every large tournament you played your swiss rounds, and the computer did the rest in figuring out your exact percentages as to how you stacked up against the field. Then the top 8 faced off in single elimination based on their seeding.

Even more on topic, I noticed his list does not run City of Traitors. I also see in the primer talk of Gemstone Mine, yet haven't seen a recent list running this land? What gives? I thought the list was pretty airtight


Hm, I think AnziD explained the Invitational format pretty well; it's split into Legacy and Standard, everything else is the same as in any other tournament. Maybe do a google search of your own or take a look at SCG's website.

I don't know where you read about Gemstone Mine in the primer. BBD and CVM run 4 Ancient Tomb 0 City of Traitors. Some think that City of Traitors is bad, because you want to keep making land drops in many matchups and City sets you back there.

[nodahero]

The reference to the Gemstonemind was, i think, a joke. It is referenced in the 3rd post on here I think. I saw it also, so I know he isn't crazy.

[JPA]

The reference to the Gemstonemind was, i think, a joke. It is referenced in the 3rd post on here I think. I saw it also, so I know he isn't crazy.

The Gemstone Mine - go was a reference to the "how to identify"-section.

Edit: Added a "Tips and Tricks"-section to the primer.

[Koby]

Good re-write to the archetype, JPA. The updated matchup sections is very neat and concise.

[atopebenidorm]

Why anybody test Stronghold gambit? Vs fast combo decks like reanimator, tin fins, omnitell, TES, ANT, Belcher, Spiral tide, Doomsday or control decks with few creatures like Miracles, BUG standstill, Pox, lands, enchantress, 12post, Tezzeret control is much better than S&T. GP winner deck only has 10 creatures. I think is an overpowered untested card.

With 4 main Gitaxian probe could be great, even mirror.

The price of this card a 0,50 $, I think very cheap.

[JPA]

Glad you like it, Koby.


Why anybody test Stronghold gambit? Vs fast combo decks like reanimator, tin fins, omnitell, TES, ANT, Belcher, Spiral tide, Doomsday or control decks with few creatures like Miracles, BUG standstill, Pox, lands, enchantress, 12post, Tezzeret control is much better than S&T. GP winner deck only has 10 creatures. I think is an overpowered untested card.

With 4 main Gitaxian probe could be great, even mirror.

The price of this card a 0,50 $, I think very cheap.

It would obviously be a sideboard-only card. And playing 4 Gambit to bring in for Show and Tell against fast-combo and creature-light decks seems just not worth it at all to save 1 mana. I'd rather have specific hate against the fast combo decks in that slot.

[Larzdk]

Glad you like it, Koby.



It would obviously be a sideboard-only card. And playing 4 Gambit to bring in for Show and Tell against fast-combo and creature-light decks seems just not worth it at all to save 1 mana. I'd rather have specific hate against the fast combo decks in that slot.

Agreed. It's close to "sideboard in 4 Simian Spirit Guides" to get a faster combo. Unnecessary, but cute. If SnT end up getting banned in the future, it might start seeing play in a weird hybrid Sneak/Gambit/TTB deck.

[Kyle]

I'm really diggin' my singleton Massacre Wurm in the SB. It's great surprising tech and can be a decent finisher.

[rockout]

Has there been a discussion about ashen rider? I haven't been able to find it in the old thread and was curious about peoples' thoughts since BBD ran 2 in his sideboard at the invitational. It seems to be really strong in the matchups where your opponent is trying to keep karakas in hand for when you show and tell? Answers karakas very well and other annoying things that they are trying to race/answer. I guess it could function as wipe away. I really don't know what I am talking about and was hoping for some input.

Thanks.

[Koby]

Has there been a discussion about ashen rider? I haven't been able to find it in the old thread and was curious about peoples' thoughts since BBD ran 2 in his sideboard at the invitational. It seems to be really strong in the matchups where your opponent is trying to keep karakas in hand for when you show and tell? Answers karakas very well and other annoying things that they are trying to race/answer. I guess it could function as wipe away. I really don't know what I am talking about and was hoping for some input.

Thanks.

Ashen Rider is comparable to Woodfall Primus (an old Sneak & Show stand in); in that they both have synergy with Sneak Attack, and remove two problems. They are both useless vs Humility, and that's a big enough reason to second guess their inclusion.

Karakas can be fought with a second red mana. Ensnaring Bridge needs a removal spell. Humility needs a removal *spell*. Ashen Rider and Woodfall Primus can deal with the two former, but not the latter.

[apple713]

I'm really diggin' my singleton Massacre Wurm in the SB. It's great surprising tech and can be a decent finisher.

is this is the wrong thread?

[JPA]

is this is the wrong thread?

Jared Boettcher swapped the Sulfur Elemental for a Massacre Wurm in a tournament he played some weeks ago. It's fine against D&T, I guess.

[Kyle]

is this is the wrong thread?

It's mentioned in the primer and I've been using it to some nice results. -2/-2 and the lifeloss to your opponent when you sweep their board (Delver, Thalia, Mom, Dark Confidant, Deathrite Shaman, True-Name Nemesis, Phyrexian Revoker) can finish them off. It's probably not for everyone, but my meta is crawling with TNN and Weenies, so it's pretty nifty.

[AnziD]

This is an exercise I do for my own benefit, where I write up my thoughts on what to sideboard and why. I figure sharing it with you guys (atm only Shardless BUG is done) isn't a bad thing. Any feedback or discussion?

Version 1.0

Mainboard:

4x Emrakul
4x Griselbrand
4x Show and Tell
4x Sneak Attack
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Preordain
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Sensei’s Divining Top
4x Force of Will
2x Misdirection
3x Spell Pierce
4x Lotus Petal
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Volcanic Island
3x Island
1x Mountain
3x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors

NOTE: 1x Probe + 1x SDT played over 2x Daze

Vs. Shardless BUG

Game Plan : The scary part about playing any UBx deck is that it attacks you on multiple axes. Its extremely tricky to balance fighting their discard with stocking up on counterspells and combo pieces. I’m not sure what the best sideboarding strategy is, but here are a few.
Leyline of Sanctity : Being attacked on multiple axes is hard. So why not make it easy and just remove one of their lines of play? Opening with Leyline shuts down a huge portion of their deck (6+ cards postboard) and makes the game much more manageable. The downside is we aren’t playing cards like Dream Halls, so the only realistic way to cast Leyline is to open with it.
Blood Moon : An autowin card that exploits BUG’s tendency to play zero basics. Need to be careful with this strategy as, if it doesn’t come down fast, the opponent might assemble a clock that makes Blood Moon by itself less powerful.
Misdirection/Divert : These cards are phenomenal in the early game against opposing Thoughtseizes and Hymns and also contribute to the later game plan of resolving a S&T or Sneak Attack. Unfortunately these are more grindy cards in that they sometimes don’t generate card advantage, but the tradeoff is that you can draw them outside of your opening hand and still have them be useful.

-1 Probe : Gitaxian Probe is the lowest impact draw spell and loses even more stock postboard because we’ll know what they have via Misdirecting/Diverting Thoughtseizes and Hymns.

-4 Lotus Petal : Theoretically, the game should slow down significantly as focus will transition away from comboing off and towards spending more time sculpting an unbeatable hand through the opponent’s discard and countermagic. Lotus Petal is a card that functions more optimally in scenarios where both players have undeveloped mana because the impact of Petal’s acceleration hits harder in these board states. You can see a logical contradiction between these two points - the game is going to go long, and Lotus Petal loses value as the game drags out. Thus Petal is probably not needed, especially since we’re not really that worried about mana issues in this matchup. Between Cascade and Visions, this matchup is all about generating the right types of value - aka depleting their hand while keeping yours full - and Petal doesn’t contribute to this game plan. Another thing is identifying our goal of having a postboard deck that is super resilient to discard. This requires that our cards have more standalone value, which is why cards like Brainstorm and Ponder are wonderful. Lotus Petal has little standalone value and is not a strict part of our combo, so it can be cut postboard.

-1 Emrakul*** : If space is really (note: really, REALLY) needed, a singleton of this card can be cut. Postboard we should expect anywhere from 2 to 4 Lilianas (and maybe a few JTMS), which a S&T’d Emrakul is not good against. However, the plan in most postboard games is to Sneak in Emrakul/Griselbrand, so the argument that Lili trumps a S&T’d Emrakul is somewhat invalid. For that reason I would advise against cutting the Emrakul. Additionally, unlike Lotus Petal, Emrakul is a core combo piece and, though in hand its value/purpose is quite linear, the card is still very necessary to draw into. That being said, trimming one of these is definitely an option and its always good to be aware of available options.

-2 Show and Tell*** : I don’t have too much experience with this card in this matchup, but looking at recent lists would suggest BUG has nothing frightening to put into play off our S&Ts. Worst case scenarios involve them putting into play a clock or an extra land that lets them follow up with a scarier card like Liliana or Jace. This sideboarding option is more of a Game 3 strategy that is calculated after seeing what the opponent has boarded in (ex. Caleb Durward sided Ensnaring Bridges in his 4C Cascade deck) and is strictly to be replaced by Through the Breach. Because this is a combo deck, we must always keep in mind postboard ratios of combo pieces and try our best as we sideboard to keep those ratios as high as possible.

-1 Force of Will*** : The argument behind trimming a copy of Force of Will is that the matchup is going to be grindy and Force of Will’s strict card disadvantage is not good in grindy matchups. However, I find this rationale applies mostly when fair decks are fighting other fair decks. For combo, the amount of Force of Wills needed is relative to how many things you’re expecting to need to counter. The following are the relevant cards I feel should be expected postboard:

4x Thoughtseize
3x Hymn
2-4x Liliana
2-3x JTMS
4x Force of Will
2-3x Counterspells (Flusterstorm, Swan Song, Pierce, etc)
That’s actually a lot of relevant cards that we need to keep under control. To do so probably requires the 4th Force of Will, which will be operating in tandem with multiple Spell Pierces, Misdirections, and counters from the sideboard. You should only really consider trimming Force of Will if you know their list isn’t threat-heavy. Otherwise its safer to just keep Force of Will in as a catch-all to whatever they slam.

-1 Spell Pierce*** : The same argument for Force of Will applies here.

NOTE: Because we are playing a combo deck we should follow a rule of not sideboarding out too many essential pieces. If we dilute our 60 cards to the point where it can’t execute its primary function, we are doing something conceptually wrong. The combo is the decks greatest strength, so remember to have a postboard deck that keeps the combo intact!

NOTE: Red*** indicates a sideboard change I would not personally advocate, though it is still an option to be aware of as sideboards will constantly change for different metas. Green is the sideboarding option I would probably do, given this list and a generic meta.

[JPA]

@ AnziD:

I would never board out Lotus Petal except against UWr Miracles and maybe the slow combo mirror. Especially against discard, you want to go off as fast as possible , since they attack your hand more than your spells on the stack. If you board out Lotus Petal, their discard will destroy you.

The list you posted is already pretty well equipped to fight Shardless BUG. Since you have a lot of cantrips and SDT, boarding out Force of Will seems fine to me. Your plan should just be to power out threat after threat and Spell Pierce + Sneak Attack should still be enough to get around their planeswalkers.
I just don't like Force of Will against non-combo-discard-strategies.

Also remember that you have to board out Misdirection if you play Leyline of Sanctity in the board.


Ashen Rider is comparable to Woodfall Primus (an old Sneak & Show stand in); in that they both have synergy with Sneak Attack, and remove two problems. They are both useless vs Humility, and that's a big enough reason to second guess their inclusion.

Karakas can be fought with a second red mana. Ensnaring Bridge needs a removal spell. Humility needs a removal *spell*. Ashen Rider and Woodfall Primus can deal with the two former, but not the latter.

Ashen Rider is great in the mirror while Woodfall Primus isn't. If BBD expected a lot of mirror and D&T I understand his decision, even though it might still be too narrow.

[Koby]

Ashen Rider is great in the mirror while Woodfall Primus isn't. If BBD expected a lot of mirror and D&T I understand his decision, even though it might still be too narrow.

These matchups seem like a poor inclusion for the premium sideboard slots. Gilded Drake and Pithing Needle, respectively, are much better suited. Needle in particular, is likely better overall due to its cost and flexibility.

[nodahero]

Needle doesnt answer Humility, Revoker, or Bridge.

Personally I think Woodfall is better probably better then Rider primarily becaue of the Sneak Attack interaction although I can see the destroy target non-CREATURE part being a huge hinderance.

[Koby]

I think Wipe Away is the best of the bunch and is the most resilient answer. You can easily setup the field with a Sneak Attack and Emrakul in hand, then bounce the problem card and Annihilate.

[nodahero]

While Wipeaway has the potential to be impressive I dislike the idea of needing UUR1 on the combo turn. Yes, I suppose you can go Sneak Attack go, take your next turn to filer and bounce on their end step and then combo... but I would rather not leave my Sneak Attack unprotected like that.

[Higgs]

I agree with this. I ran with Wipe Away for quite a while only because I didn't want to worry about Mom or extra counters but I think I would have preferred to have a 2cc bounce without the split second in most of the situations I faced.

[rockout]

Say I play wipe away out of my sideboard, what decks do I bring it in against? It seems like any deck can run humility out of the board even elves and I could potentially board in wipe away in every match up... Also, every deck basically runs karakas.

Sorry, I'm new to the deck so I am trying to become more proficient in the ideas behind it.

[AnziD]

@ AnziD:
I would never board out Lotus Petal except against UWr Miracles and maybe the slow combo mirror. Especially against discard, you want to go off as fast as possible , since they attack your hand more than your spells on the stack. If you board out Lotus Petal, their discard will destroy you.

I disagree that going off as fast as possible is where we want to be. Postboard we can assume that the opponents deck will be much better equipped to fight against our combo. This means they'll be cutting sloppy cards like Stoneforge Mystic for threats like Meddling Mage, Vendilion Clique, more Thoughtseizes, etc. The strategy of "going off as fast as possible" seems extremely linear and lacking calculation for this reason. Because there's a higher number of cards that interact with us postboard, we as the combo player are forced to acknowledge this and change our game plan accordingly. We have to play our draw spells and counters such that we constantly take into consideration what they might have in their hand. This becomes very difficult to do while also trying to combo off as fast as possible because we have to reprioritize the value of certain cards, ex. If my opponent has Meddling Mage on the board, I Ponder into Pyroclasm over combo pieces or gas. Additionally, the intrinsic nature of sideboarding forces us to slow down and grind games more (since we're diluting the potency of our maindecks).

I don't think Lotus Petal is especially powerful against discard. It might let me go off a turn faster, but then its not just discard that it helps me play around - its also the top card of their deck (which could be anything). The problem with Lotus Petal is that it is only valuable if I have the rest of the combo assembled. A hand of Lotus Petal, Tomb, Show and Tell, Griselbrand is great! But what about Lotus Petal, Land, and Draw Spells or Petal, Counter, Counter, etc. ? I know it may seem anecdotal but the point is that Lotus Petal doesn't really synergize with the rest of the cards I could have UNLESS its the entire combo. And because I'm /forced/ to grind out games to fight additional hate, there's less of a chance that I'll have Petal and the combo together through the course of the game.

The course of the game and the purpose of my cards falls into 2 categories: either the game ends fast and each card I play is devoted to speeding up the game, or the game ends late and the cards I play focus on getting me to the late game. I personally feel the latter option is more consistent, so a card like Lotus Petal, which doesn't contribute to this game plan, isn't really where I want to be postboard. I'd rather have another card that helps me fight, or another must-answer threat (like Blood Moon).

Changing gears a little, I played in a local tournament yesterday and went 2-2. I punted one match handily, but the other loss could have been avoided by better mulliganing or sideboarding. I also had a couple questions to ask:
1) Do I only board Blood Moon in when my opponent plays 0 basics? How about 1? 2? What's the threshold and what criteria are you using to evaluate that? One thing I did last night was pay attention to my opponents fetching patterns - G1 he fetched only for duals so I thought Blood Moon would be good. It hurt a bit though G3 because he naturally drew a Swamp and then fetched for a basic.
2) I am not a fan of Leyline. I don't like the concept of having to open with a specific card or otherwise have it do nothing for the rest of the game (I think with 4 copies its a 39% chance? which is really low...). So, last night I tried the Misdirection/Divert package. What I realized was that Divert is miserable on the draw, when a turn 0 discard spell can ravage my hand. Misdirection was fantastic though, but I question whether it caused me to lose the match vs the UBx deck (because I had to pitch a draw spell). Has anyone tried out Divert and under what circumstances was it successful?

EDIT: RE - SDT
Played with it for the first time last night and I have mixed feelings. Its probably because I wasn't spinning top correctly, but I found its usefulness to not live up to my expectations. What especially bothered me was the Top/Ponder interaction. Any tips or explanation on how to use Top?

[JPA]

Say I play wipe away out of my sideboard, what decks do I bring it in against?

Read the matchups-section in the primer.


Also, every deck basically runs karakas.

Esper Blade, Maverick and Death and Taxes is not "every deck". :wink:

[Koby]

Esper Blade, Maverick and Death and Taxes is not "every deck". :wink:

And Wipe Away is still good against these Karakas decks. Echoing Truth, is not.

[JPA]

I disagree that going off as fast as possible is where we want to be. Postboard we can assume that the opponents deck will be much better equipped to fight against our combo. This means they'll be cutting sloppy cards like Stoneforge Mystic for threats like Meddling Mage, Vendilion Clique, more Thoughtseizes, etc.

I was only talking about your Shardless BUG analysis; that's why I said they attack our hand much more than our spells on the stack or via other hate (except Lili/Jace). Therefore, going off as fast as possible is much better than becoming slower by boarding out Lotus Petals and getting ripped apart by discard.

It's difficult to argue about sideboarding, because there is no clear line on what you HAVE to side out. All Sneak & Show Top 8 competitors I talked to have different approaches to it. (Christopher Brunner, for example, never boards out Lotus Petal.)

To me, Lotus Petal (mana acceleration in general) is an important part of our strategy. Boarding out 1 against slower decks, 2 or more against UWr Miracles and other hard control, seems fine. But in general, you lose the games that go really long against those decks, because as you said, they usually have a wide variety of hate cards, and the longer the game goes, the broader their hate might get.

If you feel you have better chances winning the long game against control decks, board out Lotus Petal.


1) Do I only board Blood Moon in when my opponent plays 0 basics? How about 1? 2? What's the threshold and what criteria are you using to evaluate that? One thing I did last night was pay attention to my opponents fetching patterns - G1 he fetched only for duals so I thought Blood Moon would be good. It hurt a bit though G3 because he naturally drew a Swamp and then fetched for a basic.
2) I am not a fan of Leyline. I don't like the concept of having to open with a specific card or otherwise have it do nothing for the rest of the game (I think with 4 copies its a 39% chance? which is really low...). So, last night I tried the Misdirection/Divert package. What I realized was that Divert is miserable on the draw, when a turn 0 discard spell can ravage my hand. Misdirection was fantastic though, but I question whether it caused me to lose the match vs the UBx deck (because I had to pitch a draw spell). Has anyone tried out Divert and under what circumstances was it successful?

1) You can read my opinion on where Blood Moon should be boarded in the matchups-section of the primer. If there are specific matchups where you are unsure why you should/should not board them, feel free to ask again.
2) I don't like Leyline either, since it adds more clunk to all of your possible dead draws of multiple creatures. I haven't tested Divert, Jared Boettcher wrote positively about it in the article I linked in the primer: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/27385_Leaving-A-Legacy-Show-Tell-At-GPDC.html

[Kyle]

My meta contains the following at almost every weekly tournament: D&T, Bant with TNN, Maverick, BUG Delver, Elves, Esper "True"Blade, and possibly Jund, Reanimator, Mono-Red Dragon Stompy, and Mono-Red Sneak Attack. I mention these because I'm trying to sculpt my sideboard.

I'm playing a Three-Gitaxian-Probe-with-singleton-Intuition List and there are probably some questionable inclusions that I should cut for something else, but I'm at a loss as to what direction to take.

Here's my "core" SB:
2 Blood Moon
2 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast

Here's the flex:
1 Wipe Away - Great "uncounterable" catch-all bounce spell, but bad synergy with Defense Grid
2 Grafdigger's Cage - Shuts off GSZ in Maverick, Bant, and Elves, and Natural Order in Elves, as well as the occasional Reanimator
1 Massacre Wurm - Particularly good against D&T and anything running little guys, and the lifeloss can close out a game (super secret tech).
2 Vendilion Clique - Great disruption and another way to peek at hands, as well as a clock against control, not to mention great against equipment-heavy decks.
1 Through the Breach - All around good and can be a closer, great against hatebear decks.
2 Defense Grid - I think this card is a damn fine insurance policy against Midrange Blue decks, as they board in insane amounts of counters.

Here're my thoughts:
My first cuts would be Defense Grid, a single Grafdigger's Cage, and possibly Massacre Wurm, all in favor of redundant hate, more bounce, or more counters/redirections. Thoughts?

[nodahero]

Personally, I think a key part of designing your sideboard has alot to do with if you are playing Intuition. When I am playing Intuition I often ensure that I can cast it to get whatever I run in my board either in the 3 Bloodmoon way or say 2 Spell Pierce and the 1 Flusterstorm post board.
Contentwise our boards do look almost identical though.

[JPA]

My meta contains the following at almost every weekly tournament: D&T, Bant with TNN, Maverick, BUG Delver, Elves, Esper "True"Blade, and possibly Jund, Reanimator, Mono-Red Dragon Stompy, and Mono-Red Sneak Attack. I mention these because I'm trying to sculpt my sideboard.

I'm playing a Three-Gitaxian-Probe-with-singleton-Intuition List and there are probably some questionable inclusions that I should cut for something else, but I'm at a loss as to what direction to take.

Here's my "core" SB:
2 Blood Moon
2 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast

Here's the flex:
1 Wipe Away - Great "uncounterable" catch-all bounce spell, but bad synergy with Defense Grid
2 Grafdigger's Cage - Shuts off GSZ in Maverick, Bant, and Elves, and Natural Order in Elves, as well as the occasional Reanimator
1 Massacre Wurm - Particularly good against D&T and anything running little guys, and the lifeloss can close out a game (super secret tech).
2 Vendilion Clique - Great disruption and another way to peek at hands, as well as a clock against control, not to mention great against equipment-heavy decks.
1 Through the Breach - All around good and can be a closer, great against hatebear decks.
2 Defense Grid - I think this card is a damn fine insurance policy against Midrange Blue decks, as they board in insane amounts of counters.

Here're my thoughts:
My first cuts would be Defense Grid, a single Grafdigger's Cage, and possibly Massacre Wurm, all in favor of redundant hate, more bounce, or more counters/redirections. Thoughts?

I would recommend these stock sideboard choices against your described metagame:

D&T, Bant and Maverick: These are pretty similar, since they all attack you with hatebears (Bant also has a nice counter-suite and Jace+Clique, it's a very tough matchup!). Blood Moon, Pyroclasm, Through the Breach, Pithing Needle, Progenitus and Echoing Truth / Wipe Away are good sideboard cards against them (Cage is fine, but I would only board it if you have extra space).

BUG Delver: Blood Moon, Defense Grid, Red Elemental Blast

Elves: Pyroclasm, Grafdigger's Cage, Echoing Truth / Wipe Away

Esper Blade: Through the Breach, Pyroclasm, Red Elemental Blast, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Blood Moon, Vendilion Clique, Echoing Truth / Wipe Away

Jund: Leyline of Sanctity, Through the Breach, Echoing Truth / Wipe Away, Vendilion Clique, (Pyroclasm is ok, but not that great, since they have Goyfs)

Reanimator: Grafdigger's Cage, Surgical Extraction, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Vendilion Clique, Wipe Away, Swan Song, Flusterstorm, Red Elemental Blast

Mono-Red Dragon Stompy and Mono-Red Sneak Attack: These are very easy matchups, Through the Breach and Bounce are your best tools, if you need any

Overall, this is how I would build my sideboard against your metagame:

3 Blood Moon
3 Pyroclasm
2 Through the Breach
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Wipe Away
3 Grafdigger's Cage

With 3 Blood Moon, 3 Pyroclasm, 2 Through the Breach and 2 Wipe Away, you should be well equipped to fight the hatebear-decks (you can side out most of your counters).
Maybe that makes your board too cluttered with anti-Maverick/Bant/D&T cards, so if that's the case you can decrease numbers, and add 2 Vendilion Clique or Jace, the Mind Sculptor.

[Ivan]

How about Trinishpheres as a sideboard option? I play it long long time ago and I love it, what about now?

[menace13]

Maybe that makes your board too cluttered with anti-Maverick/Bant/D&T cards, so if that's the case you can decrease numbers, and add 2 Vendilion Clique or Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Just wanted to add that for his expected meta Clique seems more appealing than Jace and could come in against more of the listed match ups.


How about Trinishpheres as a sideboard option? I play it long long time ago and I love it, what about now?

It's only useful against Storm combo and Elves in Sneak and Tell lists. You'll want 3 of them and possibly Intution. Don't try to be cute against tempo decks with it. They have a better chance of clocking you then locking you out under 6 mana.

[AnziD]

I know this has been brought up before, but how exactly do you guys combat Delver?

[Justin]

I know this has been brought up before, but how exactly do you guys combat Delver?

You don't need to do much to combat Delver, really. You outrace him. Sneak and Show wins a lot faster than Delver decks. You probably don't want to waste countermagic on Delver and save it to protect your Show and Tells and Sneak Attacks, instead. A Griselbrand or Emrakul on the board stops him cold. If critters are giving you a hard time, you could try Pyroclasm or Firespout in the sideboard to buy yourself more time.

[Grand Superior]

Delver decks of all sorts are generally tight matchups, but they aren't unbeatable. Lotus Petals and Sol lands help a lot against taxing counters and you generally have more Force of Will effects thanks to Misdirection. Show and Tell is also lot more powerful in these matchups because postboard Gilded Drake aside, resolving a Show and Tell against a Delver deck is unbeatable because they never really run answers like Karakas, Oblivion Ring, Jace 2.0, Liliana, etc. Unlike other matchups where the postboard games become more about resolving Sneak Attack, Show and Tell is great in all three games.

[AnziD]

So its incorrect to board out Misdirection? I also had another question -- lets say you have lands (including 1 fetch) and 1 combo piece and you're casting the last cantrip in your hand. It reveals another cantrip and some fluff cards. Do you take the cantrip and then shuffle the other two away? Or do you shuffle and try to draw the missing combo piece?

[Kyle]

I would recommend these stock sideboard choices against your described metagame:

Overall, this is how I would build my sideboard against your metagame:

3 Blood Moon
3 Pyroclasm
2 Through the Breach
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Wipe Away
3 Grafdigger's Cage

With 3 Blood Moon, 3 Pyroclasm, 2 Through the Breach and 2 Wipe Away, you should be well equipped to fight the hatebear-decks (you can side out most of your counters).
Maybe that makes your board too cluttered with anti-Maverick/Bant/D&T cards, so if that's the case you can decrease numbers, and add 2 Vendilion Clique or Jace, the Mind Sculptor.

Thanks for the response JPA. I settled on:

2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Blood Moon
3 Pyroclasm
2 Through the Breach
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Wipe Away

... and ended up playing Match 1 against Manaless Dredge with Ballustrade Spy. Yeah, not much to help me in that matchup except Cage, which of course I didn't draw :)

Anyway, it seems like a good SB against everything that's normally in my weeklies. We'll see how it goes.

[nodahero]

The correct technical play involves alot more information. Do you need protection? Is fluff protection? What is the remaining composition of your deck? Can you afford to give yourself another turn to wait to combo?

As a general rule I would opt for the guarantee on the cantrip. It will give you better results in the long run then a blind draw. Better the devil you know and all that good junk.

[MeddlingMageGR]

Against Maverick we have any options about sb?

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[nodahero]

What are you concerened about against Maverick?

I usually run some mix of Pyroclasm, Angel of Despair 2.0 and Bloodmoon to solid results against them.

[AnziD]

Has anyone here tried Young Pyromancer in the sideboard?

[GoblinZ]

Has anyone here tried Young Pyromancer in the sideboard?

Against what deck do you need that card？

[JACO]

Against what deck do you need that card？What would Young Pyromancer even be good against? You can make a handful of extra 1/1 creatures, which do nothing ultimately. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

I've been testing with a Burning Wish-based version of Show and Tell, and early results are decent. It gives you access to some nice removal and/or discard game 1, as well as the 5th-7th copy of Show and Tell in the face of discard, and less dead cards against opposing Show and Tell decks. Don't ask me for a current build (yet), because it's still in testing and probably will be for a while. It's promising though.

[apple713]

What would Young Pyromancer even be good against? You can make a handful of extra 1/1 creatures, which do nothing ultimately. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

I've been testing with a Burning Wish-based version of Show and Tell, and early results are decent. It gives you access to some nice removal and/or discard game 1, as well as the 5th-7th copy of Show and Tell in the face of discard, and less dead cards against opposing Show and Tell decks. Don't ask me for a current build (yet), because it's still in testing and probably will be for a while. It's promising though.

curious to see the list when u have something but is increasing the S&T consistency really worth it? Sneak attack is preferred to S&T, at least imo and i think others would agree. additionally it only gets a enabler as opposed to either.

this reminds me of when personal tutor was considered.

[JPA]

Three Sneak and Shows in the Top 16 of SCG Indy.

[GoblinZ]

Hello everyone, I just pick up this deck and I take "Chas" Hinkle's GP list with a little tweak in the sb.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpwas13/welcome (I am sorry I cannot open the page of TCdecks right now)

My current sb is like this ( I am still tweaking it for my meta):

2 REB
2 defence grid
2 TTB
1 Swan Song
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique
1 wipe away
3 pyroclasm
2 cage

With this list, I have several questions:
1. Agaisnt death and taxes, I am not very sure what to take out and what to bring in. I guess I should take out 3 pierce 1 fow 1 SnT 1 probe for 3 pyroclasm 1 wipe away and 2 TTB. Is that correct? I donnot know wether I should take out intuition or not.

2. Agaisnt Bant, since they have tons of permissions and permanent hate (clique, teeg, pikula or even humility) post board, I really donnot know how to side board agaisnt them. Should I take out some Snt here for the sake of their humility and Knight of Reliquary?

Waiting for your suggestions.

[nodahero]

I'm an odd duck but against tempo decks I actually board out basically all my counters and simply switch over to Defense Grids, Blood Moons, and Clasms. It has done way better for me then trying to fight a counter war.

[GoblinZ]

I'm an odd duck but against tempo decks I actually board out basically all my counters and simply switch over to Defense Grids, Blood Moons, and Clasms. It has done way better for me then trying to fight a counter war.

Thank you man! But I think the problem with defense grids in bant match up is that they can just tutor their qasali pridemage to deal with it. If you drop your counters and also lose your grid, then it seems there is no chance to win the counter war.

[koba]

Hello everyone, I just pick up this deck and I take "Chas" Hinkle's GP list with a little tweak in the sb.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpwas13/welcome (I am sorry I cannot open the page of TCdecks right now)

My current sb is like this ( I am still tweaking it for my meta):

2 REB
2 defence grid
2 TTB
1 Swan Song
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique
1 wipe away
3 pyroclasm
2 cage

With this list, I have several questions:
1. Agaisnt death and taxes, I am not very sure what to take out and what to bring in. I guess I should take out 3 pierce 1 fow 1 SnT 1 probe for 3 pyroclasm 1 wipe away and 2 TTB. Is that correct? I donnot know wether I should take out intuition or not.

2. Agaisnt Bant, since they have tons of permissions and permanent hate (clique, teeg, pikula or even humility) post board, I really donnot know how to side board agaisnt them. Should I take out some Snt here for the sake of their humility and Knight of Reliquary?

Waiting for your suggestions.

The sideboard plan against dnt looks fine to me. I would keep the intuition and would not sideboard out fow, but a petal or probe instead.

Bant is a hard one to sideboard against. It also depends on the list; bounce becomes better if you know they play humility for example. I would probably take out 2 show and tells for 2 ttb and the intuition, a petal and another card (spell pierce?) for 2 rebs and a clique.

[nodahero]

The beauty of the situation that you described is very subtly elegant. If they are using Zenith for Pridemage (which given its a one of if I'm not mistaken) is that they are spending 3 mana there and then a 4th to activate the him. That gives you a solid window to go for something with the only options to worry about are likely Daze or Force. I would take those odds. It is very similar to trying to go off turn 1 on the play. The difference is they have active daze but with ALOT less cards in hand. I will take those odds every day personally.

[GoblinZ]

@koba. Thx, I tested the dnt match up tonight on my own. Intuition is good post board, I can intuition for pyroclasm. As for bant match up, it is really a headache. Although I may never met a bant player in any tournament, I think I should spend some time thinking what exactly I should take out or bring in.

@nodahero. That makes sense to me. I think I saw your SCG top 16 list before, so I know you run 4 defense grids. My current list contains only 2 copies of grids. I think if I follow your suggestions, I should at least add one more copy.

[JPA]

Defense Grid is fine against Bant, they usually have some number of Swan Song / Flusterstorm / Envelop in their sideboards and it also shuts off Vendilion Clique in response to one of our enablers.

[GoblinZ]

shutting off clique sounds great...I think I should cut something to make room for the third defense grid.

[nodahero]

Personally I would cut the blasts. The matches you bring Grids in are the same you would normally bring in Blast and they are a rather big non-combo.

Additionally, I personally would rather run echoing truth over Wipeaway. I never have the mana I want to cast Wipeaway and combo. Especially when there are Thalia's running around. I personally think she is the MOST IRRITATING hate bear to deal with. I often find myself feeling like its a pseudo timewalk that smacks me. READ the above as I think the one more mana isn't worth the split second. The only time I would care about split second really is against Miracle's and that is a very small portion of the format.

[JPA]

Personally I would cut the blasts. The matches you bring Grids in are the same you would normally bring in Blast and they are a rather big non-combo.

Additionally, I personally would rather run echoing truth over Wipeaway. I never have the mana I want to cast Wipeaway and combo. Especially when there are Thalia's running around. I personally think she is the MOST IRRITATING hate bear to deal with. I often find myself feeling like its a pseudo timewalk that smacks me. READ the above as I think the one more mana isn't worth the split second. The only time I would care about split second really is against Miracle's and that is a very small portion of the format.

Blast is extremely important. Grid is our best card against Tempo and also good vs counter-heavy versions of Esper and Miracles. Blast is way more versatile, being great in the mirror and very versatile against Miracles, Tempo, Shardless BUG, Reanimator, etc.
I would not play more than 2 Defense Grid if you already have Blood Moon which serves a similar purpose against Tempo (shutting off most of their counters).

Wipe Away has been so much better for me than Echoing Truth (what I used to play in the past). It is great against Miracles, Reanimator, Storm and the mirror. I wouldn't call that "a small portion of the format" ;-)
It's also a way to shut off Karakas against a sneaky Griselbrand, while E-Truth does nothing against Karakas. The additional blue mana doesn't matter; if we are stuck at two mana we usually lose, anyway.

[nodahero]

Taken from page 2 of this thread by me, "While Wipeaway has the potential to be impressive I dislike the idea of needing UUR1 on the combo turn. Yes, I suppose you can go Sneak Attack go, take your next turn to filter and bounce on their end step and then combo... but I would rather not leave my Sneak Attack unprotected like that."

UR1 is significantly easier on the mana base. The only think that Wipeaway answeres that Truth doesn't is Karakas, but that is why we bring in Bloodmoon anyway. Also the argument is less important because you can take the extra U out of Wipeaway and have it be a R and simply reactivate Sneak Attack anyway; plus that doesn't take a card.

[JPA]

The only think that Wipeaway answeres that Truth doesn't is Karakas

Echoing Truth won't be relevant against an opposing Griselbrand and doesn't give you the random "oops I win" vs Infernal Tutor.

If Echoing Truth works better for you, no problem. I stated why I think Wipe Away is better, but maybe some day I will encounter a situation that changes my opinion. :wink:

[Secretly.A.Bee]

How do you think wipe away helps against infernal tutor? If you think you can bounce LED in response to the tutor, you are incorrect. They pop led before passing priority. Even in response to that, wipe away doesn't work because led is a mana ability, making it speed 3 and impervious to bounce, as it's ability will already have resolved.

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[JPA]

How do you think wipe away helps against infernal tutor? If you think you can bounce LED in response to the tutor, you are incorrect. They pop led before passing priority. Even in response to that, wipe away doesn't work because led is a mana ability, making it speed 3 and impervious to bounce, as it's ability will already have resolved.

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Bouncing a land lol

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Wow. I failed there.

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[nodahero]

I can see the value in your situations to be sure. I fully agree with the Storm being a point to your argument. I just don't think the Grisel point is valid EXCEPT in the Show and Tell case. If they Sneak it, all they do is replay it.

[JPA]

I just don't think the Grisel point is valid EXCEPT in the Show and Tell case. If they Sneak it, all they do is replay it.

I was referring to Reanimator. It's not as good in the mirror, I agree; but still better than Echoing Truth.



I played in a 5-man-all vs all - "tournament" yesterday, featuring forum prominence such as Lemnear and Sawatarix.

Went 4-0, defeating Vial-Deadguy 2-0, bUrg 2-1 (sawatarix), Bugs Bunny (BUG Control) 2-0, Miracles 2-0 (Lemnear).

Considering how bad my matchups were, I am very happy with how my current list is performing and will probably bring it to our GPT next saturday.

[Einherjer]

It's been awhile since I played SneakAttack, and I don't plan on coming back - but there has been a discussion forcing me to come in here and ask what you think of one very specific aspect of boarding.

I was talking with a friend of mine about the 15th sideboardslot in his Miracle. I did suggest a 4th copy of REB, just as my SB is featuring it. When asked why I would do that I ofc mentioned alot of aspects, containing the Show and Tell - MU. Well, he was under the assumption, that good Sneak-Pilots board out their Show and Tells again Show and Tell, loading up on Sneak+Through the Breach. Following this thought boarding REB isn't that much of a priority any more, as there are other options and stuff.

I can totally understand the process of thought behind this very Argument, though I do not agree on its conclusion. And that's why I am here. Those of you, who are really experienced with this deck:"Is boarding out Show and Tell a valid method against Miracle" and "Is it general knowledge to do so?"(I just can't believe the second one).

Thank you very much for the time invested.

Greetings

[JPA]

The stock sideboards usually have 2 Through the Breach in them, so the swap of 2 TTB for 2 Show and Tell seems logical against Miracles, which usually has a lot of Show and Tell into creature hate (sandbagged Karakas, Venser, Jace, ...).

In the sideboarding guide of the primer I have Progenitus, Vendilion Clique and no TTB in my sideboard, so there is no need to side out Show and Tell.

4 REB would be really good against that particular list, but since it's not the stock list, your friend's statement has some truth in it. You should expect your Sneak&Show opponent to board out some amount of Show and Tells and bring in 2 Through the Breach, making your REBs a little worse.

[JPA]

By the way, I did some testing against Bant and found that Nodahero's suggestion of boarding out all counters for bombs like Defense Grid, Blood Moon, Through the Breach and Pyroclasm is a pretty good way to go against them. It's still a terrible matchup, though. :wink:

[koba]

It's been awhile since I played SneakAttack, and I don't plan on coming back - but there has been a discussion forcing me to come in here and ask what you think of one very specific aspect of boarding.

I was talking with a friend of mine about the 15th sideboardslot in his Miracle. I did suggest a 4th copy of REB, just as my SB is featuring it. When asked why I would do that I ofc mentioned alot of aspects, containing the Show and Tell - MU. Well, he was under the assumption, that good Sneak-Pilots board out their Show and Tells again Show and Tell, loading up on Sneak+Through the Breach. Following this thought boarding REB isn't that much of a priority any more, as there are other options and stuff.

I can totally understand the process of thought behind this very Argument, though I do not agree on its conclusion. And that's why I am here. Those of you, who are really experienced with this deck:"Is boarding out Show and Tell a valid method against Miracle" and "Is it general knowledge to do so?"(I just can't believe the second one).

Thank you very much for the time invested.

Greetings

I keep show and tell against miracles. Showing a griselbrand is still gg most of the time, even if the opponent has karakas or venser of whatever (except humility). You still get to draw seven or 14 cards, which should seal the deal.

Siding out two show and tells for ttb is reasonable I guess (although I do not like it), siding out 4 is not. 6 win conditions are not enough in this matchup imo, especially with potential sideboard cards like needle from miracles.

Even in the unlikely case where most sneak show players side out all show and tells, pyroblast is still a strong sideboard card. Hitting brainstorm/ponder is often the right play anyway.

[Nocley]

I'm beginning to think as well that bringing in Defense Grids is better than extra counters in the board.

Right now I'm running Bottcher's MD and the following board:

2 Divert
2 Swan Song
1 Flusterstorm
2 Through the Breach
1 Ashen Rider
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroclasm
3 Blood Moon

I'm highly considering taking out the Divert/Swan Song package for Defense Grids and a Wipe Away (or two if I take out flusterstorm as well). The question is, what is everyone's thoughts on having this approach to counters opposed to having the counters for storm as well?

[JPA]

I'm beginning to think as well that bringing in Defense Grids is better than extra counters in the board.

Right now I'm running Bottcher's MD and the following board:

2 Divert
2 Swan Song
1 Flusterstorm
2 Through the Breach
1 Ashen Rider
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroclasm
3 Blood Moon

I'm highly considering taking out the Divert/Swan Song package for Defense Grids and a Wipe Away (or two if I take out flusterstorm as well). The question is, what is everyone's thoughts on having this approach to counters opposed to having the counters for storm as well?

You kind of answered your question already. If you are fine with your combo-matchup worsening, adding Defense Grid to your sideboard will improve your tempo-matchup a lot. You still have a high amount of counters main deck to fight off opposing combo decks and the recent popularity of UWR Delver might make the swap worth it.

Even though Jared had great sucess without a single bounce spell in his sideboard, I would always run (at least) one to have outs against Ensnaring Bridge, Humility and Mother of Runes + Revoker/Gaddock.

[nodahero]

Ashen Rider. while not bounce, does answer basically all the opponents hate save humility. I have had decent success with the Rider as of late. If they have a humility they got me, and I accept that. The ability to solve basically anything and beat face is handy. I am really on the fence though if he is better then running the classic Woodfall Primus. Are there any creatures we care about really beyond Mangara that the Rider could answer and Primus couldn't?

I suppose there are really crazy ones like a hand with "removal threat" show and tell, sneak attack vs a revoker on Sneak, but even then...

[mahelfri94]

JPA, would you mind doing a full sideboard guide based on Jared's list?

Or an updated list based on your current sb?

[rockout]

Ashen Rider. while not bounce, does answer basically all the opponents hate save humility. I have had decent success with the Rider as of late. If they have a humility they got me, and I accept that. The ability to solve basically anything and beat face is handy. I am really on the fence though if he is better then running the classic Woodfall Primus. Are there any creatures we care about really beyond Mangara that the Rider could answer and Primus couldn't?

I suppose there are really crazy ones like a hand with "removal threat" show and tell, sneak attack vs a revoker on Sneak, but even then...

Peacekeeper

The only one I can think of...

[JPA]

Peacekeeper

The only one I can think of...

Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Griselbrand, Blazing Archon, and other creatures Reanimator might have. I would definitely play Ashen Rider over Woodfall Primus.


JPA, would you mind doing a full sideboard guide based on Jared's list?

Or an updated list based on your current sb?

I will make a new sideboard guide with my current list (very similar to Jared's) after the GPT on saturday.

[jimmythegreek]

Is this deck fun to play? I understand fun is kind of relative to the individual but I'm wondering if it's worth investing in. Goblins is my maindeck but I'm interested in picking up a combo deck with a lower learning curve. I appreciate any possible feedback and apologize for the obscure post.

[apple713]

Is this deck fun to play? I understand fun is kind of relative to the individual but I'm wondering if it's worth investing in. Goblins is my maindeck but I'm interested in picking up a combo deck with a lower learning curve. I appreciate any possible feedback and apologize for the obscure post.


It's fun if you're Johnny (think its johnny) player and a spike player because it's competitive but the way you win with the competitive deck is with big fat creatures so it's a lot of fun if that's your play style

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Johnny is combo, timmy is big critters and spike is competitive.

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[JPA]

Is this deck fun to play? I understand fun is kind of relative to the individual but I'm wondering if it's worth investing in. Goblins is my maindeck but I'm interested in picking up a combo deck with a lower learning curve. I appreciate any possible feedback and apologize for the obscure post.

If winning and not having to play 40-50 minutes each round are fun to you, then yes.
If complex combat math and multiple small decisions each turn that don't win you the game immediately are fun to you, then the deck is not fun.

[dorvaan]

I created this account just to say thank you for this. As someone that is in the process of building Sneak and Show, this is the best primer I've ever seen. Hell, this might be one of the best primers I've ever seen for any deck. So, thanks!

[apple713]

I created this account just to say thank you for this. As someone that is in the process of building Sneak and Show, this is the best primer I've ever seen. Hell, this might be one of the best primers I've ever seen for any deck. So, thanks!

I agree and wish that the other primers for the other decks would follow suit to make the legacy community better as a whole.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Not all decks in the format are as agreed upon as this archetype. I direct your attention to the DeathBlade thread...I understand that there are two different builds of Sneak and Show but both are largely agreed upon by their respective players.

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[apple713]

Not all decks in the format are as agreed upon as this archetype. I direct your attention to the DeathBlade thread...I understand that there are two different builds of Sneak and Show but both are largely agreed upon by their respective players.

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true but for the ones that are it would be nice to have a formal write up for them. It makes it much easier for new players to decide on a deck if they have something like that to reference.



On a separate note, has anyone tried gamble in the list?

[nodahero]

I have not tried Gamble however it seems like a worse version of intuition because you have no idea what card you will get to keep. In legacy, and honestly all formats, the more random the less valuable an ability is.

[apple713]

I have not tried Gamble however it seems like a worse version of intuition because you have no idea what card you will get to keep. In legacy, and honestly all formats, the more random the less valuable an ability is.

intuition cost too much. i figure gamble would set up a lot of t2 wins. I'll have to test it and get back to y'all. I understand more random is less valuable but if you look at it for consistency its not terrible because at the beginning of the game you'll have 6 cards in hand when you cast it. meaning if you have 1 piece already in your hand cast gamble, then 1/3rd of the time gamble will fail, but that means 2/3rds of the time it will succeed. increasing t2 potential seems good.

[JPA]

I created this account just to say thank you for this. As someone that is in the process of building Sneak and Show, this is the best primer I've ever seen. Hell, this might be one of the best primers I've ever seen for any deck. So, thanks!

Thanks! Very glad it's helpful for you.


intuition cost too much. i figure gamble would set up a lot of t2 wins. I'll have to test it and get back to y'all. I understand more random is less valuable but if you look at it for consistency its not terrible because at the beginning of the game you'll have 6 cards in hand when you cast it. meaning if you have 1 piece already in your hand cast gamble, then 1/3rd of the time gamble will fail, but that means 2/3rds of the time it will succeed. increasing t2 potential seems good.

Gamble is a very bad card, it can completely destroy your game plan by hitting a land or any other crucial piece. Unlike the Mono-R-version, we have access to all the awesome blue cantrips and therefore no reason at all to play a horrible card like that.

Gamble doesn't increase T2-potential, it would just make you lose a lot more games. Play 12 cantrips if you want to increase the chance of going off early.

[GoblinZ]

I think gamble is only viable for those decks utilizing graveyard like lands or something with goblin welder.

@JPA how'd you do at the GPT? I am looking fowards to your new SB guide.

[JPA]

I finished 3rd after Swiss at the Berlin GPT for Paris, losing in the quarterfinals to UWR Delver with Stifle (which I did not expect and won him game 1).

The meta was terrible for Sneak & Show: A LOT of Tempo (BURG and UWR mostly), some Reanimator/Tin Fins and a little bit of Storm and other random decks.

Defense Grid was the absolute MVP for me. I won every post-board game in which I cast Defense Grid and lost every one I did not find it. I will definitely go up to 4 Grids and might remove the Blood Moons; they have been terribly slow and in the end, I didn't even board them anymore against Tempo - especially on the draw.

My matchups:

Round 1 BURG
2-0

Round 2 BURG
2-1

Round 3 UW Countertop Blade
2-0

Round 4 UWR Delver
1-2

Round 5 BURG
I.D.

Top 8 UWR Delver
1-2

I played Jared's 60 main deck, and the following sideboard:

2 Defense Grid
2 Blood Moon
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Wipe Away
1 Pithing Needle
2 Through the Breach
2 Swan Song
2 Grafdigger's Cage

The promised sideboarding guide will follow in the next days.

[mahelfri94]

Excellent work, too bad you didn't finish him off for the last round! 3rd is never bad, but how many players attended? I'm playing in tournaments both on Thursday and Sunday with this. Hopefully win some dual lands and some cash! :-)


The promised sideboarding guide will follow in the next days.[/QUOTE]

[JPA]

Excellent work, too bad you didn't finish him off for the last round! 3rd is never bad, but how many players attended? I'm playing in tournaments both on Thursday and Sunday with this. Hopefully win some dual lands and some cash! :-)

Thanks - we were 26 players. Good luck in your tournaments! Let us know how they went.

I updated the sideboarding guide. If you want to see more matchups covered, let me know.

Edit: Since Swan Song is a new addition to my board, I haven't tested enough to know whether it is is better than Spell Pierce against Tempo. It is another hard-counter.. but on the other hand, the clock it provides for them might be very relevant if I fail to combo out on the turn I use the Song. Plus, they don't operate on more than 2 lands too often, so Spell Pierce is a pseudo-hardcounter as well.
Might be worth discussing.

[betterthenandrew]

Went 3-1-1 in swiss (beating poorly played RUG, Elves, and Omnishow, losing the mirror and IDing with something), then beating manaless dredge, Maverick, and UWR Delver to win a box of Modern Masters today. I played a fairly stock maindeck (Stadard core + 2 Intution, 3 Spell Pierce, 1 Misdirection, 3 Gitaxian Probe). Intuition wasn't particularly exciting and would like to cut at least one, and Spell Pierce pretty quickly seemed to lose value (my mirror match games were both defined by my opponent never casting a cantrip, and me drawing terrible). I'm not sure I would want to cut the Pierces, but they were much less good than I had expected them to be.

My board was:
2 Through the Breach
2 BLood Moon
2 Ashen Rider
2 Pyroclasm
3 Defense Grid
1 Pyroblast
1 Swan Song
1 Flusterstorm
1 Gradigger's Cage
1 Flusterstorm

Going forward I want a solid plan against the mirror. I feel the 2 best decks ATM are UWR delver and Sneak and Show. In order to beat UWR Delver I want to have room for 3 (possibly 4) Defense Grid, and should probably make room for atleast 1 or 2 Pyroclasm (mostly to kill Meddling Mage). I have no clue how to go about the mirror. I feel like cutting Show and Tell is good, and adding Through the Breach is good,but I really want to come up with a plan. Some people have suggested Vendilion Clique? Other people suggest loading up on Pyroblasts,but Sneak Attack/Through the Breach seem like the best cards post board. The Blood Moons are also on the chopping block- most people are expecting them, and even the decks they are supposed to murder don't always die to it.

[mahelfri94]

Thanks for the update! Any chance you could add these matchups, they are known decks in my area?


Affinity
Omni-Tell (I would assume exact same as sneak mirror)
MUD
Painters Servant
Maverick
Goblins
Burn
Mefolk

Also I have Jared's opinion with these matchups, but with your changes, how would you update?

Belcher
-1 Misdirection
-3 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Pyroclasm
+2 Swan Song

Dredge
-1 FoW
-3 Gitaxian Probe
+2 Divert
+2 Grafdigger’s Cage

[mahelfri94]

Any reason to leave in 2 of Show & Tell against Reanimator? I understand they need their dudes in the graveyard and not in hand, but when they do have them in hand, wouldn't it be better to take out all 4 ST and leave in something else?

Same thought applies for the MUD matchup.

[mahelfri94]

Against Elves, you can name pretty much every card they have with Pithing Needle, but would you most likely name Nettle Sentinel or something else? (Obv dependent on whats in play too).

[apple713]

Against Elves, you can name pretty much every card they have with Pithing Needle, but would you most likely name Nettle Sentinel or something else? (Obv dependent on whats in play too).

have you played against elves before? The majority of their abilities are mana abilities ... something needle can't name

[danyul]

Pithing Needle doesn't work on Nettle Sentinel. You would name DRS, Wirewood Symbiote, or Quirion Ranger.

[GoblinZ]

Any reason to leave in 2 of Show & Tell against Reanimator? I understand they need their dudes in the graveyard and not in hand, but when they do have them in hand, wouldn't it be better to take out all 4 ST and leave in something else?

Same thought applies for the MUD matchup.

I think sometimes you wish you could cast Snt into sneak attack.

With JPA's list, I think needle and REB can be brought in against dredge. And I have read Jared's article, I donnot really see the point why divert is useful in this match up. What he described seems too occasional imo.

As for elves, why name Nettle Sentinel? I think in general pithing needle is not worth siding in, you can only name drs, quirion ranger and wirewood symbiote and fetch...

[somethingdotdotdot]

So I saw that someone was testing around w/ burning wish in this deck a lil while back and thought that it was an interesting idea. I started playing around with a lil bit--trying out omni and sneak variants to try and abuse the card. Ironically, just jamming the card into the deck's flex spots turned out better than a lot of my attempts to brew. So here's a list that I've been on for a little bit. Pretty standard, except that I cut a couple of counterspells for burning wishes.

Targets (8)
4x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Griselbrand

Enablers (10)
4x Sneak Attack
3x Show and Tell
4x Burning Wish

Protection (6)
4x Force of Will
2x Flusterstorm

Cantrips (12)
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Preordain

Mana (23)
3x Lotus Petal
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Polluted Delta
3x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
2x Island
1x Mountain
3x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors

SB (still work in progress)
3x Blood Moon
2x Through the Breach
2x Pyroblast
2x Pyroclasm
2x Wipe Away
2x Massacre
1x Show and Tell
1x Flex Tutor Slot

Without the counterspells it definitely becomes more consistent--I often find myself being able to combo 2-3 times a game w/o griselbrand activation. Mulligans are a lot better because I no longer find myself getting hands with 3 counterspells w/o any action. However, I do give up speed with this setup. Burning wish-> show and tell is 3RU as opposed to just the 2U for show and tell. This also means that I wanted more permanent mana sources to make land drops each turn, so I naturally cut a petal for one. The badlands is there so that you can cast wish and play massacre off the same land (as opposed to underground).

The biggest strength of the variant is that you have versatility g1. It's a little bit like comparing ant and tes--ant is slower but can go off through more hate (there are a lot of decks packing md hate vs this deck). Massacre is also really amazing g1 as the metagame is saturated with stoneblade decks--uwr delver, esper, bant, deathblade, and dnt. A well timed massacre is a huge blowout that they aren't really expecting. I also found g1 against dnt to be much more even--being able to kill the revoker is huge in getting sneak attack online to get around their karakas. The show and tell was also pretty dead in this matchup anyways.

I've tested a couple of cards in the flex spot-- time of need, eye of nowhere, devastation tide, sowing salt, shattering spree, flame slash, and overmaster. Of those, I think the best were devastation tide and flame slash. Tide was a bit slow and I think that its effect often comes too late to matter. On the other hand, flame slash was extremely good at killing delver, batterskull tokens and the quick t3-4 goyf (usually 3/4 in these matchups). Sowing salt was too slow; time of need was rarely ever needed (har har); shattering spree was too red intensive; and eye of nowhere was just too slow (sorcery speed single target bounce was extremely slow and unreliable because of the UU cost). However, the ability to wish into a bounce spell may be worth it.

The sb itself is pretty standard--I only wanted to dedicate about 3-4 slots to the wish package (this deck has a lot of sb space anyways). I'm unsure about the blood moons right now--they're really good against karakas, but can be completely dead if drawn at the wrong time. I think defense grid might be better as protection vs the delver decks.

Any comments/critiques as well as ideas for wish targets? I'm looking for something to deal with a singleton higher toughness creature as well as liliana of the veil. The only option that comes into mind is dreadbore--which is kind of off color and mana intensive.

[koba]

Any reason to leave in 2 of Show & Tell against Reanimator? I understand they need their dudes in the graveyard and not in hand, but when they do have them in hand, wouldn't it be better to take out all 4 ST and leave in something else?

Same thought applies for the MUD matchup.

You indeed take out all the show and tells in the mirror, reanimator, mud, omnitell and probably against belcher as well (for charbelcher) imo.

I would not sideboard needle against elves either or divert against dredge. Against dredge, I would definitely keep all fow and strongly consider pyroclasm.

In general, I do not like pithing needle as a sideboard card and almost never take out any number of force of will. I also agree with JPA about not sideboarding in blood moon against delver decks on the draw.

[JPA]

Thanks for the update! Any chance you could add these matchups, they are known decks in my area?


Affinity
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Misdirection
-2 Intuition
+2 Pyroclasm
+2 Through the Breach
+1 Wipe Away
+1 Pithing Needle
Omni-Tell (I would assume exact same as sneak mirror)
MUD
-1 Misdirection
-2 Show and Tell
-3 Spell Pierce
+2 Through the Breach
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Wipe Away
+2 Pyroclasm (Metalworker, Revoker)
Painters Servant
-1 Misdirection
-1 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Intuition
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Wipe Away
+2 Through the Breach
Maverick
-3 Spell Pierce
-1 Misdirection
-2 Show and Tell
-2 Intuition
+2 Pyroclasm
+2 Through the Breach
+1 Wipe Away
+1 Pithing Needle
+2 Blood Moon
Goblins
-3 Spell Pierce
-1 Misdirection
-2 Intuition
+2 Pyroclasm
+2 Through the Breach
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Wipe Away
Burn
-2 Intuition
-3 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Wipe Away
+2 Swan Song
+2 Through the Breach (to get through their REBs)
Merfolk
-2 Intuition
-3 Spell Pierce
-1 Misdirection
-1 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Force of Will
-1 Show and Tell
+2 Defense Grid
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Wipe Away
+1 Pithing Needle
+2 Through the Breach
+1 Red Elemental Blast



Belcher
-1 Misdirection
-1 Mountain
-1 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Show and Tell
-2 Intuition
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Wipe Away
+2 Pyroclasm
+2 Swan Song
Dredge
-1 Misdirection
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Mountain
-2 Intuition
+2 Grafdigger's Cage
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Red Elemental Blast
+2 Swan Song





You indeed take out all the show and tells in the mirror, reanimator, mud, omnitell and probably against belcher as well (for charbelcher) imo.

I would not sideboard needle against elves either or divert against dredge. Against dredge, I would definitely keep all fow and strongly consider pyroclasm.

In general, I do not like pithing needle as a sideboard card and almost never take out any number of force of will. I also agree with JPA about not sideboarding in blood moon against delver decks on the draw.

I tested this a lot and don't like having only 6 enablers post-board AT ALL. If you don't play Gitaxian Probe, I can understand that you don't want to go for a blind Show and Tell. But even then you can use it to accelerate into Sneak Attack, catching your opponent off-guard. With Gitaxian Probe though, you can definitely leave in 2 Show and Tell against those matchups.
I strongly advise having at least 8 enablers in your deck every game, otherwise you decrease consistency even more and get a lot of ugly games.

Pithing Needle is kind of low impact against Elves, but it still hinders their engine a bit. I agree on definitely keeping all FoWs against Dredge and would board Pyroclasm for sure. Divert is actually fine against Dredge, kind of acting as another Spell Pierce.

I like Pithing Needle's diversity. Even if you just put it on Karakas, it makes your life a lot easier against those Karakas-decks, because you shut off one angle of hate they throw at you. Still, I haven't tested it a whole lot and it's definitely no set card in my sideboard.

If you never take out Force of Will, I would like to see your sideboarding approaches. As I said before, there is not one "correct" way to sideboard with the deck and I have heard many different plans from different players that were succesful with it.
However, what I learned in the two years that I play Sneak & Show is that I never want to board out combo pieces (except 2 Show and Tell for 2 Through the Breach) or cantrips. Boarding out 1-2 Force of Will seems very reasonable to me in certain matchups, especially if you bring in Defense Grid anyway.
You very rarely want to FoW something reactively, since you have all the answers to possible hate-cards post-board.
If you never take out Force of Will, I imagine you are cutting on Ponder or combo-pieces, so I'm curious to see how you sideboard in the matchups where I side out some amount of Force of Wills.

[koba]

For one, I do not play with probes, but run a combination of preordain/top/intuition instead. This maybe explains why I take out all show and tell against some decks and you do not; I have better card selection to find an enabler, but no knowledge about my opponent’s hand.

I do not like cutting (more than one) cantrip either. I guess I bring in less cards in a lot of matchups, most often 3 to 5 cards. Against delver decks, I usually bring in 3 pyroblasts for 2 intuition and a top or a misdirection and call it a day.

Against slower blue decks, something like blood moon (BUG, esper) or bounce (miracles) and the pyroblasts replaces some petals and intuition, maybe a misdirection.

Against decks without counters, I often take out flusterstorm/spell pierce, misdirection and again intuition.

For reference, my sideboard atm looks something like:
3 pyroclasm
3 pyroblast
2 cage, 1 progenitus
2 bounce
2 ttb
2 blood moon

I guess that it is more reasonable to cut some fow if you have defense grids, but I am not sure it is the right thing to do even in that event. I do not really agree that you have all the answers for possible hate cards post side; very often force of will is the answer.

Divert is not as good as spell pierce against dredge. It does not counter diamond, breakthrough, careful study or faithless looting. I think you are oversideboarding if you bring in divert as you would rather have gitaxian probe instead to dig for the cards that matter.

It is nice to have a discussion about sideboarding by the way; I never thought of cutting mountain in every combo matchup for example.

[GoblinZ]

After some playtesting, I also found moon is mediocre in the delver match up, especially on the draw. I think against patriot moon is good, because you also bring pyroclasm in, clearing up the board and resolving moon. But agasint thresh or Team America, I doubt I should take moon in. Btw, I wish there could be SB guide for team america match up added in the primer, it is an unfavorable mu imo.



Another question, is it worth playing one single bounce spell in the main deck?

[JPA]

For one, I do not play with probes, but run a combination of preordain/top/intuition instead. This maybe explains why I take out all show and tell against some decks and you do not; I have better card selection to find an enabler, but no knowledge about my opponent’s hand.

I do not like cutting (more than one) cantrip either. I guess I bring in less cards in a lot of matchups, most often 3 to 5 cards. Against delver decks, I usually bring in 3 pyroblasts for 2 intuition and a top or a misdirection and call it a day.

Against slower blue decks, something like blood moon (BUG, esper) or bounce (miracles) and the pyroblasts replaces some petals and intuition, maybe a misdirection.

Against decks without counters, I often take out flusterstorm/spell pierce, misdirection and again intuition.

For reference, my sideboard atm looks something like:
3 pyroclasm
3 pyroblast
2 cage, 1 progenitus
2 bounce
2 ttb
2 blood moon

I guess that it is more reasonable to cut some fow if you have defense grids, but I am not sure it is the right thing to do even in that event. I do not really agree that you have all the answers for possible hate cards post side; very often force of will is the answer.

Divert is not as good as spell pierce against dredge. It does not counter diamond, breakthrough, careful study or faithless looting. I think you are oversideboarding if you bring in divert as you would rather have gitaxian probe instead to dig for the cards that matter.

It is nice to have a discussion about sideboarding by the way; I never thought of cutting mountain in every combo matchup for example.

I agree with everything you wrote, except the Force of Will part. Against Death and Taxes for example, you would bring in 2 Blood Moon, 2 TTB, 1 Progenitus, 2 Bounce and 3 Pyroclasm. I can't imagine you wouldn't cut some amount of Fows there.



After some playtesting, I also found moon is mediocre in the delver match up, especially on the draw. I think against patriot moon is good, because you also bring pyroclasm in, clearing up the board and resolving moon. But agasint thresh or Team America, I doubt I should take moon in. Btw, I wish there could be SB guide for team america match up added in the primer, it is an unfavorable mu imo.



Another question, is it worth playing one single bounce spell in the main deck?

I tested the Team America matchup extensively with Christopher Brunner. At the beginning, I lost a lot of post-board games until he told me that my sideboarding approach was wrong. I used to bring in Defense Grids, REB and Blood Moon. He told me REB is not as good against Team America as against other tempo decks, since it doesn't hit discard or Liliana. Defense Grid is suboptimal for the same reason: Team America attacks your hand just as much as the stack.

The sideboarding he told me to do, which made we win a lot more post-board games, was:

-2 Intuition

-1 Gitaxian Probe

+2 Blood Moon
+1 Pyroclasm
on the play

+1 Blood Moon
+2 Pyroclasm
on the draw

The combination of Blood Moon and Pyroclasm is usually enough to handle the matchup. They board out Tombstalker and maybe leave in some amount of Tarmogoyfs, so Pyroclasm is pretty good here; especially because it destroys their Deathrite Shamans, which are their only out to Blood Moon.
Blood Moon also shuts off all of their counters except FoW, so Defense Grid is not as needed as against the Red tempo-decks which have access to REB.
It's also a reasonable tactic to bring in Through the Breach, if you know that they play Extraction or 3 Liliana post-board. In that case you can cut one more Probe and one Show and Tell.

Overall, the Team America matchup is rather favorable pre-board and unfavorable post-board, but still winnable.

[GoblinZ]

That seems really nice, thank you JPA !

[JPA]

Just won a 34 man GPT in Mainz, Germany, will post more infos later. Same list as in the sideboarding guide.

[JPA]

Round 1 Death and Taxes

G1 Revoker + Karakas...

G2 Turn 3 kill via Sneak Attack

G3 similar to G2

2-1
1-0

Round 2 Canadian Threshold

G1 I keep Sneak Attack, Force of Will, 3 Lotus Petal, 2 Lands. Keep drawing mana sources and enablers, while he kills me on turn 4 with triple Delver.

G2 I keep a hand of:

Emrakul
Misdirection
Gitaxian Probe
Ponder
Lotus Petal
Lotus Petal
Ancient Tomb

Of course I don't find the Show/Sneak for the T1 protected kill and when I find a Show and Tell and a blue pitch for the Misdirection on turn 5 or 6 it's already too late and he drew 2 more hard-counters to the 1 FoW Probe showed me Turn 1.

0-2
1-1

Round 3 Deathblade

G1 T2 Show Emrakul with counterbackup

G2 he has 2 Thoughtseize and 2 Force of Will, enabling board control afterwards with 6 lands, Jace, Deathrite Shaman and Dark Confidant. Topdecked Sneak Attack into Emrakul doesn't care about that. :tongue:

2-0
2-1

Round 4 TES

G1 I get an early Griselbrand that rides me to victory.

G2 I keep a bad hand of
FoW
Ponder
Ponder
Show and Tell
Ancient Tomb
Spell Pierce
Grafdigger's Cage

He just kills me on Turn 2 with protection, so it doesn't really matter.

G3 another risky, but definite keeper:

Volcanic Island
Fow
Spell Pierce
Swan Song
Show and Tell
Show and Tell
Sneak Attack

I draw runner runner runner and go for Show into Sneak into Grisel into Emrakul. He only had 1 Silence for my 3 Counters.

2-1
3-1

Round 5 Mirror against "spirit of the wretch"

G1 he only finds enablers in his cantrips, I counter two of them and go for Sneak into kill on the backswing after countering the second one.

G2 we get to a board-state where we both know each others hands and Stefan casting Show into Sneak, me putting Sneak Attack into play as well, with 5 other permanents on the board.

He activates his Sneak Attack, putting Emrakul into play, I activate mine for Griselbrand to get to 7 permanents.

At this point, my highest chance of winning is to hope for a red source from the top (I still had two creatures in hand), sacrificing everything but Sneak Attack to the annihilator.
My topdeck is Volcanic Island, obviously. :cool:

I really hate playing the mirror, feels so random..

2-0
4-1

Round 6 UR Delver

I.D., we play it for fun, I win 2-0 :wink:

1-1-1
4-1-1

Quarterfinals Bye

I finished 4th after swiss, my UR opponent 5th. He doesn't want to go to Paris, so I get a quarterfinal-bye; pretty nice!

Semifinals ANT

My opponent got a quarterfinal-bye as well, so whoever wins this match will have to wait a long time until the other quarters and semis have finished.
The other one at least gets to go home "early".

G1 he starts off with Volcanic Island - pass. Luckily I know what he plays so I am confident in going for the Turn 2 Show and Tell (normally I would expect the mirror). Griselbrand gets there.

G2 I keep a risky hand again:
Griselbrand
Spell Pierce
Spell Pierce
Swan Song
Lotus Petal
Ponder
Mountain

He starts off with Duress, taking my Ponder. Once again, I draw runner-runner into Lotus Petal and Show and Tell. On the following turn, he tries to go off with Telemin Performance (:laugh:), which I can Spell Pierce handily, earning the concession.

2-0
5-1-1

After one and a half hours of waiting and watching my friend sawatarix win in a hard-fought match against Miracles and lose to Death and Taxes in the semifinals, the finals are finally ready to start.

Finals Death and Taxes

G1 he mulls to 4 on the play, leading off with Plains into Aether Vial which I force. He does have the Phyrexian Revoker on turn 2, which can lock me out combined with Karakas. He puts it on Griselbrand, however, so I still have some chances.
Still, I have no choice but to go for Show and Tell into Emrakul on the following turn, after casting Gitaxian Probe.
Praying he doesn't topdeck Karakas works out and we go on to game 2.

G2 he gets some nice port-Thalia-waste-action going until I annihilate his board with Show into Sneak into Emrakul. He manages to recover, while I die with 2 Through the Breach in hand and no cantrip or creature topdecked in 5 turns.

G3 he has another hateful hand with Double Revoker and Thalia + Port. At one point I have no choice but to go for Probe into Show Emrakul. Again, he doesn't topdeck Karakas or Oblivion Ring and after a final handshake, we can go home at last.

2-1
6-1-1

2 Byes for GP Paris are in the bag. :smile:

[blindspotxxx]

How do you guys suppose we battle Death and Taxes with the new spirit around? It seems rough on our part

[jimmythegreek]

How do you guys suppose we battle Death and Taxes with the new spirit around? It seems rough on our part

Maybe pyroclasm. On another note I have this deck maybe thirty percent built (snt is not a cheap deck imho), theres no real threat that with the ban announcements show and tell will be on that list, right? Still I think I might wait till monday to pick up my snt's :confused:

[Valtrix]

Izzet Charm is actually not a completely awful answer as well.

[GoblinZ]

If dnt began to dominate the meta, I might consider SNT into progenitus again...

[JPA]

Progenitus and Massacre Wurm are good anwers. Increasing the number of Pyroclasm would help as well. The matchup seems fine to me post-board, pre-board we often get locked out via Revoker + Karakas; main deck Progenitus can break that lock, but I would only play that if your metagame is at least 20 % Death and Taxes.

[SecondSunrise]

Hello everyone! I'll be going to GP Paris next month and am strongly considering to play this deck.

When I started testing, I just took Brad Nelson's T16 List from the last SCGO. However, building a SB seems difficult to me. For reference, here's Brad's SB:

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Swan Song
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Echoing Truth
2 Through the Breach

I'd like to fit one or two pyroclasms somewhere, but I have no idea what to cut... talking about cutting, can someone explain the reasoning behind Through the Breach? 5 Mana seems like an awful lot, especially against Death and Taxes with their Thalias and whatnot....

[Technicolor Mage]

Hello everyone! I'll be going to GP Paris next month and am strongly considering to play this deck.

When I started testing, I just took Brad Nelson's T16 List from the last SCGO. However, building a SB seems difficult to me. For reference, here's Brad's SB:

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Swan Song
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Echoing Truth
2 Through the Breach

I'd like to fit one or two pyroclasms somewhere, but I have no idea what to cut... talking about cutting, can someone explain the reasoning behind Through the Breach? 5 Mana seems like an awful lot, especially against Death and Taxes with their Thalias and whatnot....

I am not running any Leyline of Sanctity, I find it very clunky

[apple713]

Hello everyone! I'll be going to GP Paris next month and am strongly considering to play this deck.

When I started testing, I just took Brad Nelson's T16 List from the last SCGO. However, building a SB seems difficult to me. For reference, here's Brad's SB:

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Swan Song
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Echoing Truth
2 Through the Breach

I'd like to fit one or two pyroclasms somewhere, but I have no idea what to cut... talking about cutting, can someone explain the reasoning behind Through the Breach? 5 Mana seems like an awful lot, especially against Death and Taxes with their Thalias and whatnot....


you have 4 open slots in your sideboard...leyline of sanctity does not fix any of the problems this deck experiences.

[Phoenix13]

Wouldn't Sulfur Elemental be good against Death and Taxes?

[JPA]

Wouldn't Sulfur Elemental be good against Death and Taxes?

Right, forgot that one. :wink:


you have 4 open slots in your sideboard...leyline of sanctity does not fix any of the problems this deck experiences.

It does make the Storm- and discard-matchups much easier... if you have it. Since there are more times you don't have one Leyline in your opening 7 than you having one, I don't like the idea of adding additional clunk to the deck.


Hello everyone! I'll be going to GP Paris next month and am strongly considering to play this deck.

When I started testing, I just took Brad Nelson's T16 List from the last SCGO. However, building a SB seems difficult to me. For reference, here's Brad's SB:

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Swan Song
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Echoing Truth
2 Through the Breach

I'd like to fit one or two pyroclasms somewhere, but I have no idea what to cut... talking about cutting, can someone explain the reasoning behind Through the Breach? 5 Mana seems like an awful lot, especially against Death and Taxes with their Thalias and whatnot....

Through the Breach costs just as much as Sneak Attack + activation; with :1: instead of :r: even! It's really important for matchups where you either need a replacement for Show and Tell (for example in the mirror) or additional threats (vs decks where you know they bring in Surgical Extraction).
Against Thalia-decks, it costs you 6, which is still reasonable with 5 sol-lands and 4 Lotus Petal.

If you don't like Through the Breach, Vendilion Clique is a good alternative. It acts as another win condition and can make the coast clear for your Show and Tell.

I would definitely try to fit in some amount of Pyroclasm in your sideboard. Death and Taxes and decks around Delver of Secrets / Meddling Mage are far more popular right now than dedicated discard-strategies like Jund or Shardless BUG.

[SecondSunrise]

Thanks to the suggestions! Eliminating the Leyline and cutting Echoin Truth, with which many of you seem to be unhappy, I arrive at this SB:

2 Garfdiggers Cage
2 Defense Grid
2 Blood Moon
2 Through the Breach
2 Swan Song
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Wipe Away

Which seems very reasonable all around. Maybe Ill cut 1 Swan Song or REB for the 3rd Grafdiggers Cage or Pyroclasm, depending what decks I see in the last chance Friday Trials. I still find it pretty hard to board out the right cards and not to board so much that it hinders me... but i expect that to come with some more playtesting.

[apple713]

Thanks to the suggestions! Eliminating the Leyline and cutting Echoin Truth, with which many of you seem to be unhappy, I arrive at this SB:

2 Garfdiggers Cage
2 Defense Grid
2 Blood Moon
2 Through the Breach
2 Swan Song
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Wipe Away

Which seems very reasonable all around. Maybe Ill cut 1 Swan Song or REB for the 3rd Grafdiggers Cage or Pyroclasm, depending what decks I see in the last chance Friday Trials. I still find it pretty hard to board out the right cards and not to board so much that it hinders me... but i expect that to come with some more playtesting.


This looks good. It looks like all the other accepted sideboards for this deck. This deck is towards thr end of its life cycle in the sense that there are going to be few if any changes to the sb and main deck. The main deck has a few flex spots people adjust for thier meta and the sb is the same way.

There isnt much else to be discussed on this forum since everything is widely accepted and agreed upon. Jpa made an excellent write up and there really isnt more to know about the deck

[AnziD]

There isnt much else to be discussed on this forum since everything is widely accepted and agreed upon. Jpa made an excellent write up and there really isnt more to know about the deck

That's not necessarily true. I think we should discuss Izzet Charm a bit more. I was thinking of the following as the 9 flex slots:

1 Misdirection
2 Spell Pierce
2 Izzet Charm
4 Draw Spells (atm 2 Preordain/2 Gitaxian Probe)

It seems that Izzet Charm does everything we want - counterspell, removes threats (like Meddling Mage), accelerates via looting. The only thing I'm not fond of is how it will affect the mana base and, of course, that it is a whole R more expensive than Spell Pierce. Thoughts?

Also, the next step for the the primer is to create different sample lists for different metas (if I'm expecting the meta to be Delver-heavy, play decklist A; if expecting Combo-heavy, play decklist B; etc, etc). Not that its necessary, but it would definitely be the finer polishing to an already amazing document.

[rockout]

I feel like people get confused on what this deck tries to do. You try to be too cute and make the deck less stream lined and able to force your game plan on your opponent. If you don't know it already, you are trying to put your mother fucking balls on the goddam table and force your opponent to gag on your shit. Why play defensive cards like izzet charm that cost two mana or leyline of sanctity that is god terrible defense if it isn't in your opening hand game 2. Are you going to throw back the god hand on the play game 2 because you might get disrupted by a single discard spell? God I hope not.

Sneak and Show aka. How big are your balls to just go for it t2 against daze.dec when he mulls to six game 2 on the play.

Also, this post is brought to you by alcohol consumption.

[apple713]

That's not necessarily true. I think we should discuss Izzet Charm a bit more. I was thinking of the following as the 9 flex slots:

1 Misdirection
2 Spell Pierce
2 Izzet Charm
4 Draw Spells (atm 2 Preordain/2 Gitaxian Probe)

It seems that Izzet Charm does everything we want - counterspell, removes threats (like Meddling Mage), accelerates via looting. The only thing I'm not fond of is how it will affect the mana base and, of course, that it is a whole R more expensive than Spell Pierce. Thoughts?

Also, the next step for the the primer is to create different sample lists for different metas (if I'm expecting the meta to be Delver-heavy, play decklist A; if expecting Combo-heavy, play decklist B; etc, etc). Not that its necessary, but it would definitely be the finer polishing to an already amazing document.

izzet charm is cute. Its good for modern. 1 extra mana in legacy is winning and losing. Playable and not playable. Imagine if JTMS cost 5, or Dark confidant cost 3. what if sneak attack cost 5 to cast and 1 to activate... would this deck even be where it is today? Spell pierce is too good to give up for something more expensive. If you find yourself digging more its possible that you need to play with SDT, or mulligan more.

the additions to the primer would be minimal. JPA could probably do it no problem if you ask nicely.


I feel like people get confused on what this deck tries to do. You try to be too cute and make the deck less stream lined and able to force your game plan on your opponent. If you don't know it already, you are trying to put your mother fucking balls on the goddam table and force your opponent to gag on your shit. Why play defensive cards like izzet charm that cost two mana or leyline of sanctity that is god terrible defense if it isn't in your opening hand game 2. Are you going to throw back the god hand on the play game 2 because you might get disrupted by a single discard spell? God I hope not.

Sneak and Show aka. How big are your balls to just go for it t2 against daze.dec when he mulls to six game 2 on the play.

Also, this post is brought to you by alcohol consumption.

Sounds like the alcohol is speaking the TROOF tonight!

[Lans89]

I Think he also considers Izzet Charm because of the new Spirit? And this deck is so clunky that the draw ability isn't bad either.. But still I think Pierce will be worth its place more!

[blindspotxxx]

Yeah I guess Sulfur Elementals will make it to my sideboard with Pyroclasm :)

[FTW]

How do you guys suppose we battle Death and Taxes with the new spirit around? It seems rough on our part

Punishing SneakShow

Run fewer cantrips but run Intutions main. SB into 1 Burnwillows+1 PFire+1 Loam.
Intuition into that and burn out all their dorks to clear the way, then sculpt the godhand and go off.

[JPA]

Punishing SneakShow

Run fewer cantrips but run Intutions main. SB into 1 Burnwillows+1 PFire+1 Loam.
Intuition into that and burn out all their dorks to clear the way, then sculpt the godhand and go off.

This seems REALLY bad... How are you gonna cast Loam if that's what they give you with Intuition? Why would you play clunky slow spot removal when you have access to Pyroclasm?

[FTW]

This seems REALLY bad... How are you gonna cast Loam if that's what they give you with Intuition? Why would you play clunky slow spot removal when you have access to Pyroclasm?

Because it's fun to add "Punishing" to deck titles.

I do think that increasing the number of MD Intuitions in the flex slots should help add stability (both for finding combo and Pyroclasms). IMO 2 Pyroclasms in the board aren't going to cut it. You're going to need it exactly those times that you can't cantrip into it, so how do you reliably have it as an answer? But maybe 3 copies, searchable with Intuition...

[blindspotxxx]

This seems REALLY bad... How are you gonna cast Loam if that's what they give you with Intuition? Why would you play clunky slow spot removal when you have access to Pyroclasm?

Couldn't agree more lol JPA what's your current list I'm curious :)

How do you battle the UWR Infestation?

[apple713]

Punishing SneakShow

Run fewer cantrips but run Intutions main. SB into 1 Burnwillows+1 PFire+1 Loam.
Intuition into that and burn out all their dorks to clear the way, then sculpt the godhand and go off.


This seems REALLY bad... How are you gonna cast Loam if that's what they give you with Intuition? Why would you play clunky slow spot removal when you have access to Pyroclasm?


why is this even a discussion....loam has no business being in a deck with emrakul unless you enjoy shuffling.

JPA is right, you could use pyroclasm... But Why not just use emrakul....

if you find that you are inconsistent, use some flex spots for intuition. What does pfire do for you in any of your match ups? nothing... it changes you game plan to a more grindy inferior strategy. Pfire loam is a tier 2 deck.... We don't even play green... and we run blood moons....like wtf....

Mods, can we get a username change... FTW ---> FTL

[JPA]

Couldn't agree more lol JPA what's your current list I'm curious :)

How do you battle the UWR Infestation?

I am still testing for GP Paris. My list will probably look similar to the one I won the GPT with, even though I might cut the Blood Moons to add Sulfur Elemental and an additional Defense Grid.

Defense Grid + Pyroclasm are a pretty good combo against UWR. It's still a close matchup, so try to win game 1 where they have more dead cards.

[DragoFireheart]

How much fun is this deck? Is it amusing to see the look on their face when you drop a giant monster and they have no answer?

I'm sorta tired of playing "fair" decks and I don't want to play UW control anymore.

[apple713]

How much fun is this deck? Is it amusing to see the look on their face when you drop a giant monster and they have no answer?

I'm sorta tired of playing "fair" decks and I don't want to play UW control anymore.

Its not the most fun deck ive ever played but its close to the top. Its definatly top choice out of the decks to beat section and furthermore in the established decks.

As a reference i enjoy playing hermit druid in edh. Tradewind survival when it was legal in legacy. Im brewing dark depths combo cause the current builds are too controlish for me. Ive played white stax and team america for a long time.


Elves is way to much tapping untapping shenanigans.
Ant requires too much math
Tes evern more
High tide is durdle city
Omni fizzle falls short and is completly unrewarding when you do pull it off.

Fair decks are for suckers. If you arnt doing something busted in legacy you might as well play standard.

[DragoFireheart]

Fair decks are for suckers. If you arnt doing something busted in legacy you might as well play standard.

That's pretty much the mentality I have when looking at this deck.

[Technicolor Mage]

Deck is loads of fun to play as most people like cheating in shit.

As others have said, Legacy is about doing broken shit....this is broken shit to the max

[rockout]

If you enjoy knowing you have complete control over the outcome with tight play and piloting a finely tuned engine, then yes it's fun. Sometimes your hand is force, blue card, lotus petal, show and tell, double mana land, and emrakul with irrelevant back up card on the play game one, there is no greater satisfaction than the god hand. Also, winning games from an almost unwinnable board state is nice.

[apple713]

Also, winning games from an almost unwinnable board state is nice.

Yes this is so true. Really frustrating for the opponent.

[blindspotxxx]

Just finished a 48 man tournament today got to top 8 but got murdered by a friend playing Elves.

Question, do you guys side out your spell pierces for Swan Songs for he match up or Spell Pierces are fine to stop Natural Order.

Spell Pierce is a good defense against discard early on, but after the Elves player has ramped up a bit
it becomes irrelevant. Problem with Swan Song on the other hand is that it's not good to use early and
is only for emergencies.

How do you guys SB for the Elves matchup?

[JPA]

Congrats on your finish!

Swan Song is definitely better than Spell Pierce against Elves. The additional clock is irrelevant, since our deck is not attrition-based and has access to Pyroclasm, they will never win via Beatdown (without Glimpse).

You can side out Probes, Misdirection, Intuition and Spell Pierce (even though the points you made pro Spell Pierce are very valid, so I won't blame you if you leave them in; Christopher Brunner never boards them out vs Elves, for example) in favor of stuff like Grafdigger's Cage, Swan Song, Pyroclasm and bounce.

Take a look at the bottom of the primer to see my approach vs Elves.

[KobeBryan]

a 5-1 player don't know about karakas trick

the power of this deck alone...

[GoblinZ]

Poor sneakshow player on the scg stream...

he doesn't know he can activate sneak attack eot to play around karakas...It seems he should have won the game if he attacks with eldrazi, he loses to himself...I cannot imagine how he could make 5-1 before...

[Zombie]

Poor sneakshow player on the scg stream...

he doesn't know he can activate sneak attack eot to play around karakas...It seems he should have won the game if he attacks with eldrazi, he loses to himself...I cannot imagine how he could make 5-1 before...

Holy shit those games were such farces. Leyline of "Let's turn mulligans against a degenerate combo deck into lottery" in action. Holy shit.

[JPA]

a 5-1 player don't know about karakas trick

the power of this deck alone...

I saw it... He even FoW-ed a non-hellbent Infernal Tutor.

With some more Legacy-knowledge, he might be at 7-0 like Dylan Jones, who should be able to double-draw into Top 8.

[deviant]

That guy highlighted wonderfully how SneakShow is "legacy for dummies".
"Not familiar with the format? Not interested in learning it? Dredge too difficult for you? We have great news for you!"

The sneak players that have not gone through with lobotomy really can be scary as fuck :/
(this probably should be in the drunken thread too)

[JPA]

That guy highlighted wonderfully how SneakShow is "legacy for dummies".
"Not familiar with the format? Not interested in learning it? Dredge too difficult for you? We have great news for you!"

The sneak players that have not gone through with lobotomy really can be scary as fuck :/
(this probably should be in the drunken thread too)

Watching Round 8 game 2 right now makes me think ANT is for dummies, too. :wink:

Edit: I also find it highly ignorant to call someone lobotomized based on his knowledge of the Legacy format and MTG-rules. :laugh:

[Technicolor Mage]

A lot of errors on camera, not just for SnS as we have been highlighting. Not sure how a SnS player doesn't know this trick, it is in our primer after all ;) hahahaha

[GoblinZ]

Watching Round 8 game 2 right now makes me think ANT is for dummies, too. :wink:

Edit: I also find it highly ignorant to call someone lobotomized based on his knowledge of the Legacy format and MTG-rules. :laugh:

Yeah, I also saw that, that Ant player sucks...game 2 was a farce...game 3 I really cannot understand why he could have won faster while he chose to give his opponent at least another turn

based on my experience, storm players always sucks at scg...to be honest, I even don't think BBD is an expert at strom...

[apple713]

If you enjoy knowing you have complete control over the outcome with tight play and piloting a finely tuned engine, then yes it's fun. Sometimes your hand is force, blue card, lotus petal, show and tell, double mana land, and emrakul with irrelevant back up card on the play game one, there is no greater satisfaction than the god hand. Also, winning games from an almost unwinnable board state is nice.


A lot of errors on camera, not just for SnS as we have been highlighting. Not sure how a SnS player doesn't know this trick, it is in our primer after all ;) hahahaha

this guy must be one of those unskilled trust fund babies that everyones complaining about... I always wondered if they actually existed or people were just hating....

[blindspotxxx]

I am still testing for GP Paris. My list will probably look similar to the one I won the GPT with, even though I might cut the Blood Moons to add Sulfur Elemental and an additional Defense Grid.

Defense Grid + Pyroclasm are a pretty good combo against UWR. It's still a close matchup, so try to win game 1 where they have more dead cards.

Thanks for the tips JPA :) It just reinforced my way of sideboarding lol went 3 games to the elves player but I dropped the game where I should win and that is game 1... Mull to 5 FTL! with a hand of double Petal and 3 lands.. lol

It's true that noobs can use Sneak Show and be lucky and finish great but it's the people who know how to pilot it correctly that can make it to the top 8 consistently :D

[Secretly.A.Bee]

So I have done a lot of reading and maybe I missed it, but I'm curious how exactly to sideboard against EsperBlade with Jared Boettcher's list from Providence. I'm doing some pretty heavy playtesting and while I'm a pretty good player, I'm not an expert right off the bat with every deck I pick up. You guys play this list way more than I do. What boarding strategy would you apply and why? The more details, the better. I will also give my findings after a suitable amount of data has been collected via testing.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[blindspotxxx]

The only thing I can say is that you should board out your Lotus Petals. This will be a game of top deck and attrition. Game 1 you can get away with comboing out very early but game 2 the pack a lot of disruption which pushes the game into the mid to late game. Blood Moon is always good agains 3 color decks who pack so many non basics. Through the Breach can also be boarded if you expect Surgical Extraction.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Blasts are probably good here? Esperblade plays Meddling Mage, and without a doubt will name S&T. I think Through the Breach is an auto in post board here. I personally don't play Extractions but it's not a bad choice, so between those and Mage, I'd say any way to get Emrakul into play to clear the board and continue to win the next turn. Blood Moon is pretty good here, especially if you can get it down turn 2. You have an impeccable game 1 advantage, putting you on the draw. If esper can go turn 1 discard, turn 2 mage, I think you have under a 40% chance of winning. So far, testing has backed that up at least.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[blindspotxxx]

Haven't fought with the new lists with Meddling Mage as their sideboard card. If they are playing Deathblade then Pyroclasms are a good idea. You have to kind of read them weather they will board in a ton of Discard Spells then you need to board in for that. Back then when I had Leyline I would board them in but now I don't have Leyline anymore. Leyline stops Discard, Liliana and Clique.

Deathblade and Stoneblade also have the tendency to board in Surgical Extractions so be prepared for those.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Big difference between deathblade and esperblade, one is a midrange while the one I'm concerning this thread with, Esperblade, is a control deck. They have major differences, both in construction and playstyle. I promise. I play both.

Also, at best, neither deck will be boarding in more than one more discard spell, as counters are strictly better in the match ups discard is good against.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[JPA]

Went 5-3 drop at GP Paris. People seemed really well prepared for Show and Tell strategies and I just had some bad luck.

It feels more and more like you can pull out some wins you normally wouldn't if you know the format and the deck well enough, but your losses usually happen, because the deck loses against itself.

For the BoM in May I might switch to something that punishes mistakes while rewarding good play a bit more than Sneak & Show. It's nonetheless still absurdly powerful.

[blindspotxxx]

I am disheartened that Sneak Show didn't make top 8 of the GP :(

I guess when people prepare for the best combo deck in Legacy it's really hard to push through 15 rounds.

Until next GP :)

[GoblinZ]

3 sneakattack in top 16 seems decent...

I begin to test the list with daze and preodain...I wish this deck could be more consistent...

With team america on rise, what are the best sideboard cards against them? Divert?

[AnziD]

For the BoM in May I might switch to something that punishes mistakes while rewarding good play a bit more than Sneak & Show. It's nonetheless still absurdly powerful.

What options are you thinking about?

[blindspotxxx]

3 sneakattack in top 16 seems decent...

I begin to test the list with daze and preodain...I wish this deck could be more consistent...

With team america on rise, what are the best sideboard cards against them? Divert?

Yeah I didn't notice earlier because the coverage wasn't complete yet. Sneak Show can beat BUG Delver
as it is. Blood Moon and Leyline are really great against them.

[AnziD]

Does anyone have any experience with the Atlanta meta? I looked at a few past opens to collect some data. The September 13 Open featured a lot of Delver and Combo in the T16. Is this what I should expect in the March Open? If so, how should my sideboard look (assuming I have Dylan Jones' mainboard)? What other questions or data should I be looking at to prepare for this open as a SNT player?

[jimmythegreek]

Ive gone broke building this deck....debit card just got declined, fml :'(

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Ive gone broke building this deck....debit card just got declined, fml :'(

Eating and rent is tech. Is it completed? If not what do you have left?

-ABC

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[jimmythegreek]

Eating and rent is tech. Is it completed? If not what do you have left?

-ABC

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

A few sneaks...and an emrakul left. I decided I wanted to finish the majority of the deck and dropped like five hundred dollars on ebay. My girlfriend was super pissed because instead of valentines day antics I treated myself to a playset of force of wills....totally worth it.

[blindspotxxx]

A few sneaks...and an emrakul left. I decided I wanted to finish the majority of the deck and dropped like five hundred dollars on ebay. My girlfriend was super pissed because instead of valentines day antics I treated myself to a playset of force of wills....totally worth it.

LOL real life is overrated :D

[rockout]

It's ok dude. We've all probably been there in some regard. I sold a mox sapphire and recall years ago to pay my rent and I kick myself everyday for doing it. Do what makes you happy and screw valentine's day, hopefully the girl will understand someday what true love is...

[Mortox]

A few sneaks...and an emrakul left. I decided I wanted to finish the majority of the deck and dropped like five hundred dollars on ebay. My girlfriend was super pissed because instead of valentines day antics I treated myself to a playset of force of wills....totally worth it.

lol! a man who has his priorities straight, good for you buddy.

On the bright side, a playset of forces is useful in so many top legacy decks that it will be significantly more affordable to construct each future blue deck you decide to invest in.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Women come and go, turn one protection is forever.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[jimmythegreek]

Thank all of you for your kind realistic, sentiments. Its nice to post real life bull-shit and not be immediately nerd flamed, gripping about straying away from deck theory or match-up percentiles. After reading most of this thread there seems to be a very amicable feel and openess overall, I hope this can continue as such will bare the greatest gains for all who contribute to this thread. Sometimes to be great at something one must step back and laugh, forgetting the task at hand. On another note I will post my results with this deck and hope to provide information that will further this decks development.

[AnziD]

What are people's thoughts on the UB version of this deck, with the Intuition/Gifts kill?

[Kyle]

Women come and go, turn one protection is forever.

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Can I put that in my sig?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Of course. Honesty should be shared.

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[Kyle]

Of course. Honesty should be shared.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Sweet.

[apple713]

What are people's thoughts on the UB version of this deck, with the Intuition/Gifts kill?

is this the list you are talking about? They defiantly are not the same deck. I've also never liked discard vs counter spells, i.e. thought seize vs spell pierce. Also I'm not sure what gifts is doing in this deck.

Creatures (4)

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand
Lands (21)

3 Island
2 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Underground Sea
Spells (35)

4 Omniscience
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Gifts Ungiven
3 Intuition
3 Duress
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Show and Tell
3 Thoughtseize
Sideboard

2 Defense Grid
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Swan Song
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Swamp

[jimmythegreek]

Played against my buddies merfolk deck the other night winning two out of three matches (5-2). The games were fun, though if the deck didnt hit business I would soon succumb to island-walk. As a new player to this deck some of my opening hands were questionable probably not to a skilled pilot though. For example; a hand with sneak, petal, petal, creature, island and brainstorm? The obvious perile is being brainstorm locked, how well does this deck mull? It seemed that sneak attack was far superior to snt sinc the +1s of the lords were certaintly relevant, on the other hand a quick snt into emrakul usually sealed the deal. Overall I was really impressed on how with the right hands the deck felt nearly invincible, allowing me to wait till I had counter back up before playing my business. Sometimes hands with fetches and cantrips felt ok and often got me there...is this strategy in general agreement or did I just get lucky. I understand depending on who ones opponent is determines the decision making. Which decks does grisel out-shine emmy and vice versa?

[blindspotxxx]

(a hand with sneak, petal, petal, creature, island and brainstorm)

This is a really good hand that I would definitely keep. We don't mulligan well, the only cards I auto mull are:

No lands
All counters and lands
All counters, fatty and lands

I think the other combinations are keepable, this deck takes balls sometimes you take risks then you get immensely rewarded.

@Secret

That quote is epic lol I wanna put it in my sig as well, but I'm not sure why I can't find the place for an avatar and a signature.

[AnziD]

29th at the Open in ATL this week, went 6-2-1 after ID'ing the last round.

MB:
51 Staples
2 Misdirection
3 Preordain
1 Gitaxian Probe
3 Spell Pierce

SB:
2 Through the Breach
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Swan Song
3 Pyroclasm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Echoing Truth

Matchups:
R1: 2-0 vs. MUD w/ Welder
R2: 0-2 vs. RUG (Stephen Mann)
R3: 2-0 vs. High Tide
R4: 0-2 vs. Merfolk
R5: 2-1 vs. Elves
R6: 2-1 vs. Merfolk
R7: 2-0 vs. Sneak and Show
R8: 2-1 vs. Miracles
R9: 0-0-3 vs. Sneak and Show

Some notes:
Preordain was real. While preparing for the tournament I had a huge debate between running Probe or Preordain. On one hand, a lot of lists were doing well with Probe. On the other hand, my results were extremely poor and I was very unsatisfied. I locked in with the 3/1 split based on my testing and an overwhelmingly overwhelming amount of the time (like 9 out of 10 times) I was glad I had Preordain instead of Probe. The thing I find most attractive about this deck is that it really functions in two modes - either it goes off on turn 2 with a probability of failing, or it goes off a few turn later (t5 at the latest) almost certainly. Going off early is largely dependent on the draw, as you'll only get to play one cantrip at most. Going off later in the game requires a lot of sculpting, and Preordain provides substantially more of this than Probe. Postboard Preordain is also more helpful to dig for answers, etc.

Flusterstorm was absolute ass. I won't be playing this again, and instead will most likely replace it with another REB.

Leyline of Sanctity was not boarded at all, but I still think its necessary for matchups like Jund and Storm.

Pyroclasm came in against Merfolk, Elves, and Miracles. I only felt confident about bringing it in vs. Elves. Against Merfolk I had too many cards to take out, like Pierce (do I take this out?) and Misdirection, so I brought in Pyroclasms. Against Miracles, I was very worried about Mages and other bears, and despite not seeing any, I couldn't afford to take the risk.

Cage was only good against Elves, but it was phenomenal in stopping a Therapy from flashing back and taking both my in-hand Show and Tells.

Moving forward:
I'm going to test out a 2/2 split between Probe and Preordain. Additionally I will experiment with a 2nd Probe as the 61st card. With Preordains, I'm going to try and change the manabase up a little, switching out an Ancient Tomb for the 4th Misty, since I usually lose the hands where I open with double sol lands. And lastly, Defense Grids is definitely going to be in the board to help with the Delver and Miracles matchups.

Comments/questions?

[JPA]

Congrats on making Top 32 and thanks for sharing your thoughts.


Against Miracles, I was very worried about Mages and other bears, and despite not seeing any, I couldn't afford to take the risk.


I haven't seen a Miracles list with Meddling Mage so far. The only creatures they run are Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique, Angel tokens and sometimes Stoneforge Mystic. Pyroclasm is not worth bringing in against them.

[Z-Nubs]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum, however not new to Sneak and Show. I have been playing the deck for just over 2 years now and have tinkered with other decks but found myself coming back to SnS anytime I needed a reliable deck for a tourney. I don't really get to make it to major tourneys, but do play quite often locally in a pretty diverse meta. Like many others, I too have found Probes to be a little underwhelming. The information is useful, but most of the time I can get a sense of what my opponent has in hand based on how they play, so it usually just confirms my suspicions. I have been playtesting the deck with a black splash (2 Thoughtseizes and 2 Inquisitions in place of 4 Probes) and have found it to be quite useful. I get the same information as I did from Probes in seeing my opponents hand, I strip my opponent of a card rather than cantrip myself (and this deck is very good at rebuilding itself), but more so it has given me access to Dread of Night out of the sideboard, which is exceptional against D&T - an otherwise difficult match up even post-board. I know there have been other SnS decks that splashed black in the past, but with the rise of D&T I think it might be the right time to make the switch. The drawback, of course, is the mana base. I currently run 2 underground seas, 2 islands, 2 volcanic islands and 1 mountain, but am considering changing one of the seas to a badlands as there have been times I ended up short on red mana if I fetched for a sea on turns 1 or 2.

Let me know what you guys think!

[AnziD]

Congrats on making Top 32 and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I haven't seen a Miracles list with Meddling Mage so far. The only creatures they run are Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique, Angel tokens and sometimes Stoneforge Mystic. Pyroclasm is not worth bringing in against them.

That's fair. The Miracles player I usually watch/talk to uses a couple and I kind of based my experience off that. Probably should have looked at the GP lists a bit more closely instead.

[Felryn]

I have been playtesting the deck with a black splash (2 Thoughtseizes and 2 Inquisitions in place of 4 Probes) and have found it to be quite useful. I get the same information as I did from Probes in seeing my opponents hand, I strip my opponent of a card rather than cantrip myself (and this deck is very good at rebuilding itself), but more so it has given me access to Dread of Night out of the sideboard, which is exceptional against D&T - an otherwise difficult match up even post-board. I know there have been other SnS decks that splashed black in the past, but with the rise of D&T I think it might be the right time to make the switch. The drawback, of course, is the mana base. I currently run 2 underground seas, 2 islands, 2 volcanic islands and 1 mountain, but am considering changing one of the seas to a badlands as there have been times I ended up short on red mana if I fetched for a sea on turns 1 or 2.

Manabase of this deck has a weakness against Wasteland; I don't want to loose because I had not the red mana to cast Sneak Attack. JPA (if that's him, I don't remember) suggested to play Sulfur Elemental. That's the better choice in our colors if we want to destroy D&T's creatures. But I tested this one. And I go back the third Pyroclasm instead because Meddling Mage of UWR decks must be destroyed.
Playing Duress-like cards make non-tempo effect in this deck (this is a tempo-combo deck, no?). I know some kind of cards are very difficult to beat, but those discard cards aren't good if we're on the draw. Those cards are good against control decks, and playing only a playset of this is not effective because those decks have Spell Pierce and Brainstorm to beat against our discard. If I play discard cards, I want to play more in sideboard. However, we don't have more place in sideboard to have discard in it. I think discard isn't good against BUG decks who also plays Thoughtseize and Hymn to Tourach against us. What do you want to discard on BUG, RUG and UWR which can't be countered in the pre-side game? I'm very interessed by your response to understand your choice :wink:


I'm testing Sensei's Divining Top instead of 2 Gitaxian Probe at the moment. This card really change our plays and I'm very happy when I've it on the board. That's a ponder-like effect on each turns. I know, this is a non-blue card, that's the reason I play only 1 Misdirection and 1 Intuition. It really change post-side mirror games when opponent plays Ponder, Preordain and Brainstorm to have counterspells and the combo, we do the same at the end of turn. And it's a huge card against BUG decks. But that's making more slowly games and this isn't philosophy of this deck. So, I continue testing and searching for a card who do the same effect.



Sorry for the approximative english, I'm French, and this is one of my first post in english.

[alphastryk]

That's fair. The Miracles player I usually watch/talk to uses a couple and I kind of based my experience off that. Probably should have looked at the GP lists a bit more closely instead.

Sorry - It's atypical which is why it works so well for me. :)

[Nocley]

How do you know when it's time to go back to Daze/Preordain lists over the Probe/Inutition list?

Right now I'm at for my flex spots:
3 Daze
3 Preordain
2 Spell Pierce
1 ??? (Either Misdirection or any of the other 3)

Maybe it's just because of what's in the meta where I want the heavier counter number, but it feels like probe is just a card i rarely want to see unless I'm comboing off, which sucks because I want the cantrip as early as possible in order to actually get the combo. Or am I just completely misplaying it? I'm preferring preordain because it allows more manipulation, but at the same time I'm torn because it isn't "free" so I can't both play it and a ponder to start the game. As for intution, it's nice but I just don't feel right playing it.

My current board is (For the Daze/Preordain list):
2 Through the Breach
1 Ashen Rider
3 Blood Moon
2 Pyroclasm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Divert
2 Flusterstorm
1 Wipe Away

The only change in the board from the Probe/Intution list is that the divert and 1 flusterstorm are taken out for 3 defense grids, allowing me to board out a handful of counters and force opponents to either counter that immediately, or play around it. Still, I just feel like I have the most success when I have access to Daze as additional counters.

Maybe I'll go with the top as is mentioned above, it is reusable and not something decks will fight over. The instant speed helps give us something to do during excess mana during non-combo turns.

That would put the 9 slots for me as:
2 Spell Pierce
2 Top
2 Preordain
3 Daze

Now I need to figure out how I want to handle the boarding in/out with the daze route. Is it still right to board it out on the draw like delver decks do when facing delver? Or do we want to keep it in because we need as many counters as we can against them?

[Z-Nubs]

How do you know when it's time to go back to Daze/Preordain lists over the Probe/Inutition list?

Right now I'm at for my flex spots:
3 Daze
3 Preordain
2 Spell Pierce
1 ??? (Either Misdirection or any of the other 3)

Maybe it's just because of what's in the meta where I want the heavier counter number, but it feels like probe is just a card i rarely want to see unless I'm comboing off, which sucks because I want the cantrip as early as possible in order to actually get the combo. Or am I just completely misplaying it? I'm preferring preordain because it allows more manipulation, but at the same time I'm torn because it isn't "free" so I can't both play it and a ponder to start the game. As for intution, it's nice but I just don't feel right playing it.

My current board is (For the Daze/Preordain list):
2 Through the Breach
1 Ashen Rider
3 Blood Moon
2 Pyroclasm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Divert
2 Flusterstorm
1 Wipe Away

The only change in the board from the Probe/Intution list is that the divert and 1 flusterstorm are taken out for 3 defense grids, allowing me to board out a handful of counters and force opponents to either counter that immediately, or play around it. Still, I just feel like I have the most success when I have access to Daze as additional counters.

Maybe I'll go with the top as is mentioned above, it is reusable and not something decks will fight over. The instant speed helps give us something to do during excess mana during non-combo turns.

That would put the 9 slots for me as:
2 Spell Pierce
2 Top
2 Preordain
3 Daze

Now I need to figure out how I want to handle the boarding in/out with the daze route. Is it still right to board it out on the draw like delver decks do when facing delver? Or do we want to keep it in because we need as many counters as we can against them?

Personally, I have never found Flusterstorm to be helpful at all. It's at its best against storm, but even then a good player will strip it from your hand before they go off. I would much rather have Swan Song or REB/Pyroblast in its place. Also, I do not like daze as it sets you back a turn, which forces you to only be able to use it the turn you go off (and games 2 or 3 that will usually be a couple turns later than game 1). Most decks are bringing in more hate for us then we are for them, and they will be sure to play around dazes/spell pierce, so the longer the game goes, Daze just gets significantly worse. I do agree with you that the probes were not doing it for me, which is why I ended up splashing black for those 4 slots to bring in Thoughtseize and Inquisitions (see my previous post). Here is what I have learned since splashing black: definitely need to go up to 20 lands if you normally play 19 and Massacre is a beast out of the sideboard (it kills D&T, wipes away stoneforge's, delvers, meddling mage) - simply fetch up an underground sea, thoughtseize them, then massacre them and by that time you are usually free to combo off).

i haven't tried Tops maindeck yet, but I am going to run 2 of them at my next tourney to see how they are. Others have had success with it and it would probably help stabilize my mana base.

[Nocley]

I strongly disagree with another splash for black. Sure the thoughtseize is nice, but I still think our best answer to the Delver matchups is just get Blood Moon postboard. By splashing black we make their wastelands turn on even more, as well as making it harder to play bloon moon (though the second is arguable because thoughtseize t1 -> blood moon t2/3 is a much better line than the other way around).

As for Daze, I don't think it's something that slows us down, it's a card that should be used as free counters during the counter war to get our combo off.

Flusterstorm vs Swan Song/Blast - I like flusterstorm a lot more because I see decks like Elves and Storm much more than fair decks where I want more counters. As for saying Storm will strip it out...won't they do that for any counter anyways? Maybe that is a playstyle preference, but I much prefer Flusterstorm right now.

The addition of tops has made me want even more shuffle effects too, but that's something we definitely dont have the slots for.

[JPA]

As for saying Storm will strip it out...won't they do that for any counter anyways? Maybe that is a playstyle preference, but I much prefer Flusterstorm right now.

Yes, but I think Z-Nubs prefers REB and Swan Song over Flusterstorm because of their versatility.

[rockout]

When I play against combo, since they run a fair amount of discard and are quicker than us, I tend to use my spell pierces and rebs on their cantrips. For instance, turn 1 ponder or turn 2 brainstorm when they have a fetch up or haven't played a land yet.

As a side note, I noticed most of the time if they cabal therapy you blind, they tend to name show and tell or force or even spell pierce if you have mana open, so if that's not your primary way of beating them at the moment, use that knowledge to blank the first therapy. Also, this goes without saying but they may name brainstorm blind on therapy if they have multiple discard spells because in my experience I tend to keep looser hands if there are multiple cantrips.

I feel like my post went all over the place, but just random knowledge I've noticed over the last few months of crushing with this deck.

[Nocley]

So whatever I said earlier? Daze is really good in this deck. I don't think I can go back to without it. Got t8 in the legacy open today, lost to Omni-Tell and then Death and Taxes in the quarterfinals. Report will be up within a few days.

[Technicolor Mage]

So whatever I said earlier? Daze is really good in this deck. I don't think I can go back to without it. Got t8 in the legacy open today, lost to Omni-Tell and then Death and Taxes in the quarterfinals. Report will be up within a few days.

How was SDT for you? I see that you ran 2 of them. Are you going to up the count of Daze or is three the number you think is optimal. I admit, Westcoast seems to produce a lot more combo, so I think flusterstorm is a better choice right now as well.

[Nocley]

How was SDT for you? I see that you ran 2 of them. Are you going to up the count of Daze or is three the number you think is optimal. I admit, Westcoast seems to produce a lot more combo, so I think flusterstorm is a better choice right now as well.

Top won me more games for opponents thinking I'm on Miracles and countering it on sight turn 1 than actually getting advantage. Maybe one game it was deep enough? The issue is that we want our colors that much and I really don't think we have the number of fetches to abuse shuffle effects with it, nor the mana to consistently manipulate with it. I was bringing it out against a lot of the faster combo matchups which took up a lot of my day. I'd much rather have Preordains in their slot as a means of getting crap to the bottom.

As for flusterstorm, my combo matchups were Reanimator, the Omni-Tell loss, and Belcher. Really shouldn't have won the Belcher game 3, he went off...to hit me only for 14. Only Belcher really is Flusterstorm a truely powerful counter, in the other's it's just a spell pierce that requires at least two counters. I still like it in the counter wars though.

[JPA]

Congrats on making Top 8! Looking forward to your report.

[Nocley]

Report is up here - http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27779-Banned-from-Team-Fair-Top-8-Legacy-Open-Seattle-3-16-14-with-Sneak-and-Show

I'm going to probably take out the Tops for Preordains if I play it in LA next week...but I just don't know if I will. I'm expecting a meta shift towards BUG, Miracles, and Death and Taxes, none of which are great matchups for us. Probably going to the darkside to run BUG. I'll decide Saturday night.

[GoblinZ]

Report is up here - http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27779-Banned-from-Team-Fair-Top-8-Legacy-Open-Seattle-3-16-14-with-Sneak-and-Show

I'm going to probably take out the Tops for Preordains if I play it in LA next week...but I just don't know if I will. I'm expecting a meta shift towards BUG, Miracles, and Death and Taxes, none of which are great matchups for us. Probably going to the darkside to run BUG. I'll decide Saturday night.

Congratulations！I also played daze along with preodains for a while, I think it's a right choice.

[Kl'rt]

Apologies if this question is stupid, but in Nocley's report, he boarded out all Show and Tells vs Miracle. Is this always correct?

[JPA]

The question is not stupid, but it has been answered in this thread before. You will find some answers on page 5.

Quick summary: It's definitely viable to board out all 4, but by no means mandatory. Personally, I would rather board out 2 Lotus Petal 2 Show and Tell than 4 S&T.


I'm going to probably take out the Tops for Preordains if I play it in LA next week...but I just don't know if I will. I'm expecting a meta shift towards BUG, Miracles, and Death and Taxes, none of which are great matchups for us. Probably going to the darkside to run BUG. I'll decide Saturday night.

Good luck! Hopefully you will make the "right" decision. :wink:

[apple713]

Apologies if this question is stupid, but in Nocley's report, he boarded out all Show and Tells vs Miracle. Is this always correct?

S&t is much weaker in this match but that doesnt mean you should take them all out. Ttb and sneak are obv the better threats but in my experience you need to keep sdt off the table if possible and play threats so they run out of answers or cant find them

There is no great way to beat miracles in general. Their deck is designed to have answers to all the decks. Either have counters for them or prevent them from finding them.

[Technicolor Mage]

Is this deck losing it's potency? I realize we just top 8'd but I sense the meta is gunning for us these days.

The rise of a couple of decks that give us problems doesn't help either

Not sure if I should shelve it and play something else or just weather the storm so to speak

[JPA]

Is this deck losing it's potency? I realize we just top 8'd but I sense the meta is gunning for us these days.

The rise of a couple of decks that give us problems doesn't help either

Not sure if I should shelve it and play something else or just weather the storm so to speak

Well, before Team America and Miracles we had to deal with UWR and RUG, which are also quite difficult matchups. With Blood Moon + Pyroclasm we have good chances against TA. Defense Grid is a lot worse against them than against RUG and UWR, because TA has a lot of discard + Liliana post-board. Pithing Needle and more REBs are options to tackle the Miracles-matchup.

Death and Taxes didn't increase in popularity and it has been a big part of the metagame since Strasbourg already.

However, I also think that people are more prepared to beat Sneak and Show. That doesn't change anything about the raw power of the deck or the fact that it's still quite difficult to hate out anyway.

[jimmythegreek]

Well, before Team America and Miracles we had to deal with UWR and RUG, which are also quite difficult matchups. With Blood Moon + Pyroclasm we have good chances against TA. Defense Grid is a lot worse against them than against RUG and UWR, because TA has a lot of discard + Liliana post-board. Pithing Needle and more REBs are options to tackle the Miracles-matchup.

Death and Taxes didn't increase in popularity and it has been a big part of the metagame since Strasbourg already.

However, I also think that people are more prepared to beat Sneak and Show. That doesn't change anything about the raw power of the deck or the fact that it's still quite difficult to hate out anyway.

This may be the most degenerate deck in magic history....sometimes I will be tempted to keep a hand full of cantrips cuz it can win with so few cards. About preordain....I dont think this deck needs more cantrips. With eight monsters, eight ways to cheat them in and eight cantrips (not counting probe) I dont see variance as an issue. Usually a monster or enabler plus cantrip will get me there. I was thinking of going 2/2 split of probe and daze. I still use misdirection and intuition, are either of those falling out of favor? Also, can someone give me some guidelines on what to put into play when you have emmy and grisel in hand. Against an unknown opponent I would guess grisel is the right call. What about against other decks to beat?

[apple713]

Is this deck losing it's potency? I realize we just top 8'd but I sense the meta is gunning for us these days.

The rise of a couple of decks that give us problems doesn't help either

Not sure if I should shelve it and play something else or just weather the storm so to speak

This deck is the gold standard for combo decks. It has become the rug delver for combo decks. Because of this more ppl prepare for it. The deck is still absurd though. It doesnt really have BAD matchups.

[Kl'rt]

Is this deck losing it's potency? I realize we just top 8'd but I sense the meta is gunning for us these days.

The rise of a couple of decks that give us problems doesn't help either

Not sure if I should shelve it and play something else or just weather the storm so to speak

The top two Decks to Beat now are Team America and Miracle Control. Akatsuki, responsible for popularizing Team America (top 16 SCG Baltimore, top 8 GP Washington) has said Sneak Show is hard for him, even post-board. Einherjer, who top 4'd GP Paris with Miracle said the Sneak Show match is probably 50-50, though he'd rather not face it. PV Damo da Rosa (top 8 GP Paris with Miracle) said Sneak Show for him is not a favourable match.

The only decks I can think of that Sneak Show is weak to are Death & Taxes and maybe Reanimator. If you haven't noticed, D&T has been pushed out of DTB status thanks to TNN. Reanimator seems to be struggling in the current meta too.

This deck's worst opponent is probably itself. Sometimes it just craps on itself and you don't have the pieces to do anything.

[Andreas Schnaas]

Hello everyone.

After a lot of playtesting yesterday I've played with Sneak & Show in a local tournament. I've made top 8 facing in the swiss: Countertop Balance (lost 1-2), ANT (won 2-0), Goblins (won 2-0). I lost in quarterfinals vs UWR Delver (0-2).

I'd like to discuss my impressions after playing the deck quite a bit with more expert players.

First of all, I think 4 Gitaxian Probe are a little to much. I've missed often Daze the turn I could go off, so I'm thinking to add a 2-3x to the main.

I'm a little torn about Misdirection and Intuition, I'm thinking to swap them for 2x Preordain. It's true that we have already a lot of cantrips, but sometimes with Brainstorm there's nothing you can do when seeing all bad/useless cards apart putting them on the top.

About the sideboard: is it a good idea to add a Wipe Away and 2x Defense Grid? The cards I'm thinking to cut are 1 Pyroclasm (at the moment I have 3) and 2x Ashen Rider. The rest of the side is pretty straightforward: Blood Moons, Grafdigger's Cages, Pyroblast, Swan Songs, Through the Breach.

Thank you very much in advance.

I apologize in advance for my english, I'm from Italy. :smile:

[Nocley]

Yea I think the deck does have some hate against it, but it also deserves a lot of it. We really do cheap things with minimal card investment.

As for fatty sequencing, it is dependent on whether you are facing a karakas, or playing them off show or sneak. If it's a super early show (turn 1 or 2) I usually drop emrakul unless I feel threatened by them having a combo in which case grisel draws 14.

If it's sneak, grisel comes first usually for me unless I need to take out their board. But if you have both in hand with a sneak online, you usually are in a good position.

I got 17th in Los Angeles yesterday losing to Belcher and death and taxes in rounds 4 and 6 respectively. Dnt loss was because I mistimed a daze and it set me back a critical turn because I was so narrow minded about playing around the rest of his hate. Daze is the nuts against rug I learned, but mainly I faced a wide variety of decks and never felt like I was behind in many of the games. Sure there were some hands and that did nothing, but as you play you mull with them a lot better. The hate comes and goes, with two top 8 now I feel like people remember this is a deck again, which is why I wouldn't run this in Charlotte, especially because the type of player at the invitational will be more likely to run something that has access to karakas, probably the worst hate spell against us (though still very possible to play around)

I wasn't actually planning on running this yesterday, but a couple people convinced me to at 940am because the meta was combo and deliver all over.

Also as for defense grid, I really dislike It with daze for obvious reasons. I've just never been sold on it or leyline in the board for this deck

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[Technicolor Mage]

Heard part of the interview from Charlotte where they discuss SnS and how some pro's think players are playing too conservatively. Rather we should be trying to jam our combo down the throats of the opposition as fast and often as we can.

Thoughts?

Here is the link, I can't remember if it was Hewey or Brad who was talking but it's about half way in when discussing the meta game.

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/2510_above_the_curve_legacy_metagam.html

[JPA]

Heard part of the interview from Charlotte where they discuss SnS and how some pro's think players are playing too conservatively. Rather we should be trying to jam our combo down the throats of the opposition as fast and often as we can.

Thoughts?

Here is the link, I can't remember if it was Hewey or Brad who was talking but it's about half way in when discussing the meta game.

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/2510_above_the_curve_legacy_metagam.html

I think Brad referred to the situation where you use Gitaxian Probe to know whether the coast is clear, to go off then. In contrast to the lists without Gitaxian Probe, where you have to play more "conservatively".

You will obviously jam your combo as fast and often as you can. But if that advice makes you do stuff like going off with FoW in your hand WITHOUT a card to pitch instead of waiting one more turn to be safe, or cast your enablers into your opponent's soft-counters, it's clearly bad advice. Gitaxian Probe allows you to know if you have to play around anything, thus making it possible to play more aggresively.

[Final Fortune]

This deck is the gold standard for combo decks. It has become the rug delver for combo decks. Because of this more ppl prepare for it. The deck is still absurd though. It doesnt really have BAD matchups.

This, I think the meta game is finally settling post True Name Nemesis and now that every good True Name Nemesis deck is playing Deathrite Shaman Show&Tell is clearly better than Reanimator and probably better than Storm. I think the trick going forward is to know what MD and SB cards to run, Leyline of Sanctity is bad, Defence Grid is bad and I think we're getting to the point where Red Elemental Blast is a MDable card and Pyroblast is the best SB card. Once you start rocking 8 blasts Miracles ain't shit no more, also I think Swan Song is an underrated MD card, Divert is an underrated SB card and if you guys haven't noticed nobody is really playing Surgical Extraction any more so Intuition is pretty fucking awesome again. Furthermore red seems pretty bad in aggro-control right now and nobody is playing Island so maybe you should push the Moon plan with Magus as well since the whole format is volunteering to make that card a win condition. I think if UWR Nemesis drops out of the meta game because it can't beat BUG, UWBg, Jund and Junk then Lightning Bolt doesn't really have a home in aggro-control any more and Moons can run a muck.

So if you want to next level the meta game, I think MD Divert or Red Elemental Blast is pretty strong and Moons are absolute wrecking balls. If I were a sadist I'd MD Blood Moon at this point because it's such a brutally effective win button game 1 when nobody is expecting it. This is probably the last deck in the format that will be left standing with Volcanic Islands unless people jump on the URphid plan while everybody else is dropping their pants.

[Andreas Schnaas]

Any opinion about mainboarding a couple of Jace, the Mind Sculptor? It seems that lately is having a lot of success, I think that's because there are more and more Miracles around.

I've just seen the feature match of the Charlotte Open and Jace + post-SB Boseiju have complitely wrecked the opponent.

[DavidHernandez]

Hey guys, I haven't posted in this particular thread before, but wanted to let you know I took 1st place at the Star City Games Invitational Qualifier in San Diego tonight with Sneak & Show. In the meantime, my list was unconventional based on what I expected to see at this tournament.

In the main, I had:

1 x Elesh Norn
1 x Red Elemental Blast
1 x Empyrial Archangel

Here is the complete list:

Lands:
2 city of traitors
1 mountain
3 island
3 flooded strand
3 volcanic island
3 ancient tomb
4 scalding tarn

Creatures:
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
1 Empyrial Archangel

Artifacts:
4 Lotus Petal

Spells:
1 Flusterstorm
4 Sneak Attack
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Misdirection
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
1 Red Elemental Blast

SB:
1 Wipe Away
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
1 Through the Breach
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Blood Moon
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroclasm
1 Echoing Truth

MVP's were Leyline of Sanctity (vs discard), Through the Breach (vs Pithing Needles!), and Elesh Norn (vs Goblins!).

I think I'll be going to the Seattle, WA Open this year!

Thanks to the OP for the detailed info on how to use this deck. The info on using Emrakul during the opponents end-step when they had Karakas out was the thing that won for me.

Dave

[JPA]

Any opinion about mainboarding a couple of Jace, the Mind Sculptor? It seems that lately is having a lot of success, I think that's because there are more and more Miracles around.

I've just seen the feature match of the Charlotte Open and Jace + post-SB Boseiju have complitely wrecked the opponent.

He basically played 2 Jaces instead of 2 Intuition, which is a pretty good idea vs a Miracles-heavy metagame, because you will have a lot of time to find your combo against Miracles anyway. Jace is a really nice late-game weapon against them, sometimes even an alternate win-condition.

But seeing Todd keep a hand of Griselbrand, Emrakul, Lotus Petal and 4 Lands in the quarterfinals made me turn off the stream immediately.


Hey guys, I haven't posted in this particular thread before, but wanted to let you know I took 1st place at the Star City Games Invitational Qualifier in San Diego tonight with Sneak & Show. In the meantime, my list was unconventional based on what I expected to see at this tournament.


Congrats on your win! How did the metagame look like, which decks did you face? And what did you expect that made you play 1 Empyrial Archangel? :confused:

[DavidHernandez]

Congrats on your win! How did the metagame look like, which decks did you face? And what did you expect that made you play 1 Empyrial Archangel? :confused:
SCG Invitational Qualifier San Diego, Legacy, First Place

edit: I posted the decklists along with a copy of the following report to the "Tournament Report" area located here:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27840-SCG-Invitational-Qualifier-San-Diego-03-30-2014-First-Place

First off, here is what our San Diego meta told me: Expect to see a lot of UW, D&T, and Elves. A lot. I knew that we would have 3 or 4 UWr Miracles, at least 2 D&T, and at least 3 Elves! I also expected 2 or 3 Merfolk, 2 or 3 Red Deck Wins, and at least 2 Goblins decks. Beyond those, there were going to be at least 2 ANT decks and a bunch of UB Control, not to mention 2 or 3 Patriot Delver and a few BUG builds. I figured 60 percent of the decks, or more, would be sporting blue.

I’ve been playing a lot of Reanimator and Tin Fins lately -- along with a couple of other players down here -- and a lot of people in our area have been bringing uber graveyard hate. I agreed with my friend Joey Valente that a graveyard based deck was a bad idea. In fact, I didn’t think we’d see more than 1 Reanimator build and 1 Dredge.

As it turns out, this was pretty spot-on.

I almost put UWr Miracle Control together, but really wanted to use my Sneak Attacks...they were gathering dust. I started testing Sneak Show a couple of weeks ago, and in playing and testing I found the most frustrating matchups were against Elves and UWr Miracles. I wanted something built into my main deck to beat those. In our weekly tournament last week, I cast Show and Tell, plopped down Griselbrand, and my UWr opponent dropped a Detention Sphere. I was unreasonably annoyed.

While reviewing Reanimator builds and S&T decks for the past 6 months on MTGtop8, I saw one Reanimator build that had Empyrial Archangel in it. Then I found a S&T list that ran a main deck Elesh Norn. I found both of those ideas interesting.

Normally, I would have sideboarded a copy of Ashen Rider, and until the night before the tournament I was going to put it in the maindeck, but then I thought… “ok, how is Empyrial Archangel better than Ashen Rider?” I think just about everyone would agree that it's not better...but it did exactly what I wanted it to do…come down and be untargetable. In fact, everything that runs Oblivion Ring and Detention Sphere also runs Swords to Plowshares, so Ashen Rider could survive Detention Sphere/Oblivion Ring, but then it would get STP’d. I chose the Archangel specifically to put into play with a Show and Tell against UW Miracle decks. As a bonus, it also turns off burn decks for up to 3 turns (redirects damage) and can buy me one or two critical turns of life against aggro, all the while beating in the air for 5.

Elesh Norn was added to the main with the same type of reasoning. With an expectation of multiple D&T, Elves, Goblins, Merfolk, TNN, Deathrite Shaman, Stoneforge Mystic, etc., Elesh Norn was a great way to maindeck a board wiper while providing a vigilant blocker that put the opponent on a 5 turn clock. Even if it only came down with Sneak Attack it would board wipe D&T, Goblins, and Elves (not so much Merfolk, but as it turned out it DID wipe Merfolk for me) and perhaps block. In fact, this won the match for me against Goblins (details below) and was a great boost in game three vs. Merfolk.

My original build (2 weeks ago) included 2 Jace the Mind Sculptor (based on Kelvin Young’s build below), which I really liked, but I thought we might see a lot of non-basic lands and I wanted Blood Moon in the board. Getting 2 blue for Jace, or for Wipe Away, just seems too hard under a Moon…so I dropped the Jaces and went with maindeck Archangel for one slot, and a Red Elemental Blast for the other slot. The REB turned out to be a great choice. Even though it’s dead against some decks, having it in the main was a great choice for this particular tournament and it also helped win the Merfolk matchup in round 2. I used the REB against UWr Miracles too, and had it handy during the Semi Finals vs UW Miracles (the one with Humility main).

I based my “Jace build” on this one by Kelvin Young, who took 6th(?) at the SCG Open in Los Angeles on March 23rd 2014 out of 374 players:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation created with mtgtop8 .com
// NAME : Sneak Show
// CREATOR : Kelvin Young
// FORMAT : Legacy
1 [UNH] Mountain
2 [EX] City of Traitors
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [UNH] Island
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [R] Volcanic Island
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [AVR] Griselbrand
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [US] Sneak Attack
1 [MM] Misdirection
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [CMD] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe
4 [M12] Ponder
4 [US] Show and Tell

SB: 1 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [5E] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [TE] Intuition
SB: 2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 [M13] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [MM] Misdirection

Again, I thought the Jaces were great -- but I wanted Blood Moons in the board. After playing the list once in a local tournament (5th place out of 18 :rolleyes:) I researched and re-built. I found this list with Elesh Norn in the main, played by Tim Dutton at the SCG Open in Seattle on March 16th 2014 and piloted to a 12th place finish out of 321 players:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation created with mtgtop8 .com
// NAME : Sneak Show
// CREATOR : Tim Dutton
// FORMAT : Legacy
1 [EX] City of Traitors
1 [UNH] Mountain
3 [UNH] Island
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [R] Volcanic Island
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [NPH] Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [AVR] Griselbrand
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [US] Sneak Attack
1 [TE] Intuition
1 [SC] Stifle
2 [NE] Daze
2 [MM] Misdirection
2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [CMD] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [M12] Ponder
4 [US] Show and Tell

SB: 1 [TSP] Wipe Away
SB: 2 [CHK] Through the Breach
SB: 2 [5E] Pyroblast
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 3 [9E] Blood Moon
SB: 1 [THS] Ashen Rider
SB: 1 [M13] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage

I really liked his sideboard and main deck, and almost went with this exact build. However, I didn’t like having only 2 Daze in the main -- I’m of the opinion that if you’re going to play Daze, play 4. I also didn’t like the singleton Stifle or the 4 Ancient Tombs/1 City of Traitors (vs 3 Tombs and 2 City of Traitors), although a Stifle is good vs both Storm and Miracle triggers, specifically Terminus. I am testing the Stifle now and may replace the mainboard Flusterstorm with it.

So, based on my expectations and reasoning, I chose to play the following list:

Lands:
2 city of traitors
1 mountain
3 island
3 flooded strand
3 volcanic island
3 ancient tomb
4 scalding tarn

Creatures:
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
1 Empyrial Archangel

Artifacts:
4 Lotus Petal

Spells:
1 Flusterstorm
4 Sneak Attack
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Misdirection
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
1 Red Elemental Blast

SB:
1 Wipe Away
1 Through the Breach
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Blood Moon
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroclasm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm

I didn’t miss Intution and I didn’t miss Jace. I was only sorry to see Flusterstorm (in the main) once. I never did have to play against the one Tin Fins deck that showed up, nor did I have to play against the two ANT decks that were there. At least I was prepared…

I may change the 3 Flooded Strand to 1 Flooded Strand, 1 Polluted Delta, and 1 Misty Rainforest...just to further protect against Surgical Extraction. Every little bit helps.

I was happy with 2 Gitaxian Probes and thought it was a good number, especially when playing with 3 Ancient Tombs and 7 fetchlands. I pulled them in a couple of matches due to the life loss against Merfolk and Goblins, boarding in 2 Pyroclasm in their place for both of those matchups.

I want to make room for a second sideboard Through the Breach. The card won a match for me under Pithing Needle and I want to make sure I have it available. One is not enough, and I got lucky.

THE TOURNAMENT

ROUND 1 vs Jesse Guerrero with Old School Black Discard (2-1)

He won the die roll.
Game 1: My opening hand is Island, Fetchland, Show and Tell, Griselbrand, Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, and Sneak Attack. I’m very happy. He drops Swamp, Dark Ritual, Duress, Hymn to Tourach. LOL. Welcome to Legacy. I lose my two Lotus Petals and my Show and Tell. I play Island and say go. He drops Swamp and Hymn to Tourach. I’m left with a Sneak Attack. I draw something stupid and pass the turn. He plays a Swamp and a Hypnotic Spector, and then 2 things with Exalted, and I’m taking four per turn from a Hypnotic Spector. I die.

Game 2: I board in 4 Leyline of Sanctity and 2 Pyroclasm. I have Leyline in my opening hand and play it. It shuts him down and I win this easily.

Game 3: I mull to 5 and get the Leyline. It shuts him down and I win easily.

---------------------------------

ROUND 2 vs Mike Duran playing Merfolk (2-1)

Apparently, I’m not going to win any die rolls today.

Game 1: I manage to win a counter war, get a Sneak Attack in play, then a Griselbrand. I drop to one life drawing for a lotus petal and Emrakul, find them both, and swing for 22.

Game 2: He gets a great hand with threats and counters. He wins the counter war and takes me down quickly with his dudes.

Game 3: Another counter war. He has a Pithing Needle on Sneak Attack, but I’m able to Wipe Away, then Elesh Norn and Emrakul swing for the win.

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ROUND 3 vs Kurt Calbus playing Goblins: (2-1)

Okay, I won the die roll!

Game 1: My opening hand can’t possibly be better. Island, Lotus Petal, City of Traitors, Show and Tell, Elesh Norn, Brainstorm, Force of Will. First turn Elesh Norn basically shuts him down, but he plays it out trying to find some kind of answer. Not sure what he was looking for in a Goblin deck…maybe he was running the dude that bounces a creature to it's owner's hand...but finally I take him down and he never got anything on the board.

Game 2: He gets a great opening. I do cast a Show and Tell revealing Emrakul, and think I have the game won, but he reveals Angel of Despair and my Emrakul gets shuffled back into my library. I die on turn 3 to an Angel of Despair leading a horde of enraged Goblins. I'm going to have to be more careful in game three....

Game 3: I kept a good hand with Sneak Attack, Sol Lands, Lotus petal, and THREE Griselbrands. I’m really happy. And then I can’t draw a red source. He gets a bunch of Goblins out. I finally get Sneak Attack live and drop a Griselbrand. He has lethal on the table, and I’m at 8. I need a Mountain and an Emrakul to win. I draw 7 and go to 1. I have one Island open. I find a bunch of fetchlands (useless at one life!) and a Ponder. Ponder won’t be enough since I need to find two cards. I’m forced to swing, putting me back to 8. I use the life and draw seven more. I find my Emrakul and Mountain, but playing an Emrakul during my End Step will not win the game for me because he has 4 Goblins out and I’m at one life. I Ponder. He has no response. I see Island, Ponder, Elesh Norn (!). I draw the Elesh Norn. I check with the head judge to make sure my understanding of the end step is correct and my play is legal, and then cast Elesh Norn via Sneak Attack during end step. His board wipes except for the 3/3 dude who is now a 1/1, and I have a blocker during his turn. He does nothing and passes. My Elesh dies, but I have an Emrakul in hand along with an Empyrial Archangel and a Griselbrand, and I activate Sneak Attack 3 times to put them all into play for the win. Why all 3? Because it looked cool and I wanted to make sure I ground him to powder.

---------------------------------

ROUND 4 vs Cody Guy playing UWr Miracles: (0-2)

Game 1: I have the win on the board and I PUNT. I had cast Sneak Attack using all my red mana, leaving Ancient Tomb untapped and Emrakul in my hand. Stupid. I lose because of this. Just STUPID. No other excuses.

Game 2: Really intense game! Very close, but he shuts me down with Pithing Needle on Sneak Attack and Meddling Mage on Show & Tell. I Echoing Truth the Neelde and swing with Emrakul, but I’m a turn late and he survives, killing me with the mage.

---------------------------------

ROUND 5 vs Darren Roberts playing “MegaTron” (2-1)

Darren’s deck is awesome. It’s resilient, fast, and has main deck hate in the form of Pithing Needles, Phyrexian Revokers, and Surgical Extractions. He runs maindeck Emrakul, Kozilek Butcher of Truth, Ulamog the Infinite Gyre, Sundering Titan x 3, Phyrexian Metamorph x 3. I know I can’t cast a Show and Tell because I’ll die. It's 12-Post on steroids because he runs the Post lands and Urza lands proteted from Wasteland by the Pithing Needles and Revokers.

Game 1: I get a fabulous opening hand but I’m on the draw, which always scares me. However, Force of Will slows him for a turn and I get an active Sneak Attack for Emrakul followed by Griselbrand and I win it.

Game 2: He opens with Pithing Needle on Sneak Attack. I’ve removed all S&T’s at this point and boarded in 3x Blood Moon and 1 Through the Breach. I Blood Moon on turn 2, but he manages to get an Oblivion Stone in play. He saves his Pithing Needle, wipes the rest of the non-land board, and then casts one of his three Karn Liberated. Over the next two turns I get no business spells, and I lose 2 lands to Karn exile. Then he locks me with Lodestone Golem followed by a devastating Sundering Titan. I die horribly.

Game 3: I get a great hand and manage to get Sneak Attack in play early. He needles it before I can activate it, but I rip Through the Breach and cast it for Emrakul, wiping his board. Next turn I rip Griselbrand off the top and swing for 7 to win.

---------------------------------

ROUND 6 vs Jonathan “Nemo” Sherman (ID)

I’m in 6th place and he’s 3rd or 4th. We ID and I make Top 8 in 8th place.

---------------------------------

TOP 8

A rather bizarre top 8. I’m paired against Cody Guy, the UWr Miracles player I lost to during the Swiss rounds when I punted. He isn’t going to be able to make it to any of the Invitational Opens, and he’s happy with the top 8 split, so he concedes to me. In the meantime, Nemo loses his match, and the winner (Ben) plays His BUG deck against the winner (by concession) of the BANT (played by Corey Armstrong) vs Elves match (the Elves player conceded because he was leaving with Cody, the UWr Miracles player). The winner of the BANT vs BUG match will go to the finals.

At the next table is Wes Calbus (UW miracles with Humility main) playing against Kane (Dhoa?) on Sneak and Show. I will have to play the winner in the Semi Finals. Wes (UW Miracles) has Humility and Thopter Foundry in the main and in both games against Kane, Wes gets Humility into play. It was a sick thing to watch as a 1/1 token beat down on the S&T player until he died. Twice. In the second game I noticed that Kane’s Blood Moons hurt him far more than they did Wes due to the number of basic lands Wes had in his deck. Also, Kane didn't pull an Island the entire game, and only pulled 2 Lotus Petals when it was far too late. Note to self, don’t put Blood Moons in against Wes.

---------------------------------

SEMI FINALS vs Wes Calbus playing UW Miracle Control (2-0)

Game 1: I resolve an early Sneak Attack with counter backup and swing with Emrakul for the win.

Game 2: I board in Echoing Truth, Wipe Away, and Through the Breach. He gets Karakas early, like on turn 2. I get a Sneak Attack in play. I only had R available, so I quote the OP, “……with only R you have to wait until your opponent's end of turn. Then you activate Sneak Attack, putting Emrakul into play and enter your turn. You give your opponent priority at the end of your main phase.” I did this.

“ If he bounces Emrakul then,” (he didn’t) “you regain priority, use your second R / or the untapped R from EOT again to put Emrakul back into play. If your opponent bounces him in response to the Annihilator trigger” (this is what he did) “he doesn't lose life, but you can just kill him on the following turn, because his board will be wiped and you get to keep Emrakul in hand.” This is what happened. Actually, I wiped his board and he was still alive after the next turn, but then he got hit for 15 and then 7 from a Griselbrand.

---------------------------------

FINALS vs Dark Maverick played by Corey Armstrong:

This is a great matchup for me, but Cory wants to go home early and is happy with 2nd place, which also earned an Invitation to the Open Series. He conceded, but I’m sorry he did. I went there to play magic! Still, I’m really happy because that put me in first place!

I ended up winning the event and left with a limited edition IQ playmat, an SCG Top 8 Pin, $186 in store credit (top 8 split) and an Invitation to one of the next 4 Opens.

It was a blast!

Dave

[Unassigned]

Nicely done, David.

I just happened to stumble upon this thread while looking for better options for sideboarding against BUG decks, since my local meta has exploded with them.

Had I seen this thread, I probably would have been more prepared against Graves in the finals of SCGCOL, lol. I never anticipated (nor bothered to test) against Reanimator.

My sideboard plan during Columbus was horrible, as Jace was less than useful, however, the Ashen Rider's and Blood Moon's worked well against a sea of Kennen Haas-inspired Jund Depths decks.

2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ashen Rider
1 Massacre Wurm
2 Blood Moon
1 Pyroblast
2 Swan Song
2 Through the Breach
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Pyroclasm

I regret the Massacre Wurm and the Jace's, although the Jace did allow me to win against a Mono White Stax list. Either way, I have cut Swan Song's in favor of another Flusterstorm, a E Truth and E Explosives.


My current board is as follows:

2 Blood Moon
2 Defense Grid
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ashen Rider
2 Through The Breach
1 Echoing Truth
1 Engineered Explosives

The Explosives have helped me against BUG, Painter and Delver decks so it might be worth doing your own investigation into. The E Truth would probably be better served as a Wipe Away, so I might be changing that shortly.

Something I'd like to mention to you all is that lately I have been running a split 2-2 between Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm in the main. My local meta is pretty diverse, but UWR and BUG tend to be more vulnerable to a timely Flusterstorm. Plus, it has assisted in the random Storm matches.

Just some random thoughts while I'm at work. I'll read more of the thread this weekend and will be keeping in touch.

[nodahero]

For the board, what is better as a solution to troublesome permanents... running Ashen Rider and getting blown out by humility for sure and possibly Needle on Sneak Attack without a Show and Tell or running bounce and having utility but lacking the body from Ashen Rider body?

I see almost all boards run bounce over Rider but I have no clue why except for my thoughts above. Am I missing something?

[Andreas Schnaas]

Any further suggestions when facing Miracles? Every time they always seem to have more counters, not counting Karakas.

[nodahero]

To beat Miracles you either need to Crash in quick and hard or sculpt a really strong hand with Sneak attack and counters.

Piercing/FoWing there top is also a good edge.

EDIT

Here is the 75 I am planning on registering for the open tomorrow...
Creatures (8)

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
Lands (19)

3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
Spells (33)

4 Lotus Petal
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Sneak Attack
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell

Sideboard (15)
1 Progenitus
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pyroclasm
3 Bloodmoon
2 Flusterstorm
2 Through the Breach
1 Wipeaway
1 Echoing Truth

Any thoughts? I esqued running the Leylines because I dislike the idea of top decking them late game and having access to Top should alleviate some of the stress from discard.

[Unassigned]

Two Sneak & Show's in the Top 4 of SCGMKE.

Wayne Tam
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=65892
- More or less stock, but has Clique in the board.

Alexander Javed
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=65893
- Simian Spirit Guide with Clique, Chain of Vapor and Sower in the board?


Can't argue with the results, but I am curious as to the choices and how often these options helped him throughout the event.


Also, why Chain of Vapor? I feel that this is a seriously bad card in our matchup because how often can they bounce your Sneak Attack, Needle, etc? I've always liked Echoing Truth or even Wipe Away over Chain.

[nodahero]

Chain can be a lifesaver against Thalia (the mana can count) and sometimes, in the early rounds, you can trip opponents up by targeting your own card (so they won't counter it) and then chain it and bounce what your really want to bounce. Also it can randomly help to up your storm count with Petals in play if your worried about a counterwar and you have Flusterstorm in hand.

[Leftconsin]

Two Sneak & Show's in the Top 4 of SCGMKE.

Wayne Tam
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=65892
- More or less stock, but has Clique in the board.

Alexander Javed
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=65893
- Simian Spirit Guide with Clique, Chain of Vapor and Sower in the board?


Can't argue with the results, but I am curious as to the choices and how often these options helped him throughout the event.


Also, why Chain of Vapor? I feel that this is a seriously bad card in our matchup because how often can they bounce your Sneak Attack, Needle, etc? I've always liked Echoing Truth or even Wipe Away over Chain.

Alex borrowed my deck and I didn't have a sideboard ready for him. Part of the board actually was me pulling blue cards out of my EDH decks and just jamming them in there last minute. That is also why there is a SSG instead for petal #4. :tongue:

[Unassigned]

Alex borrowed my deck and I didn't have a sideboard ready for him. Part of the board actually was me pulling blue cards out of my EDH decks and just jamming them in there last minute. That is also why there is a SSG instead for petal #4. :tongue:

I was totally not expecting that reason, and love it. :) BTW, I'm originally from Marinette.

[JPA]

Alex borrowed my deck and I didn't have a sideboard ready for him. Part of the board actually was me pulling blue cards out of my EDH decks and just jamming them in there last minute. That is also why there is a SSG instead for petal #4. :tongue:

Haha, I already wondered what the "LOL yes" answer to SCG's "would you make any changes to your deck after today?" was supposed to mean. That clears it up. XD

[plowshares]

I was wondering what you guys think about JTMS in this deck. I used to disagree with Jace in SnS, but it seems to have gained popularity recently. What are the pros and cons, what matchups do you want Jace in?

[JPA]

I was wondering what you guys think about JTMS in this deck. I used to disagree with Jace in SnS, but it seems to have gained popularity recently. What are the pros and cons, what matchups do you want Jace in?

You can find the pros in the primer. The only disadvantage I see is the fact that you have no way to protect him, making him a 4 mana, 3 damage absorbing Brainstorm in the worst case. Best case, he either ends the game alone or finds you the needed combo piece(s) to win.

[Technicolor Mage]

Only 4 DTB in the format, not sure I like these classifications. There are more than 4 DTB when you go to a Legacy tournament, even if BUG/Miracles are ripping it up.

[jimmythegreek]

Dtb doesnt really mean so much....anyhow. Just played against mud and got owned, worse yet it was my little brother. How do I eleviate this match-up?

[GoblinZ]

I just played a small tournament today and got the second place with sneak attack. I played daze, top and preordain in the main, I did not note anything through the tournament, so here is just a brief report:

Round one 2:1 vs ANT
Game one, I had SnT and emrakul in hand on turn three, I decided not to go off because I knew against storm it did not work. He untapped and killed me next turn.

Game two I FOWed his duress and showed the griselbrand.

Game three, I had FOW in hand without other blue cards, but I had tomb, island and two petals on play. He did nothing during his turn, next turn I sneak attacked into griselbrand and emrakul.

Round Two 2:0 vs Bug Landstill
Game one, I sneak attacked into 15/15, he had two U-Sea on the board and conceded immediately. I was not sure what he played but assumed he was on death blade.

Game two, we both slowly sculpted our hand, meanwhile I tried to resolve vendilion clique at the end of his turn, which met his counter spell. I untapped and cast SnT, which was resolved. I put sneakattack and he put ensnaring bridge into play. I topdecked a griselbrand and drew seven cards. I found no bounce but a blood moon, I tapped my tomb to cast blood moon instead of drawing extra seven cards.（because I had only 7 life after tapping tomb）He tried to FOW the moon, I cast BS in response and found an echoing truth, so I let his FOW resolve. Next turn, I bounced his bridge and sneaked into 15/15.

Round three and four ID

Top 8 2:0 vs Death Blade
Game one, he was mana flooded and had nearly nothing relevant.

Game two, I mulliganed to six but had a descent open hand. He discarded my SnT but I drew sneak attack then and resolved it. He flashed a vendilion clique in response with my sneak attack on the stack and took my griselbrand. I drew an emrakul a few turns later. His karakas didn’t work because I have multiple red mana.

Semifinal 2:1 vs Death Blade
Game one, winning a brutal counter war, I sneaked a 15/15 into play.

Game two, after a few turns I played vendilion clique at the end of his turn, he resolved notion theif in response. Then I saw vindicate, jace, BS, vindicate and FOW. I thought I had preordain, REB, sneak attack, spell pierce and griselbrand in hand. I put back his fow and untapped, I did not draw a land to both play REB and sneak into my griselbrand so I killed the theif and cast preordain. I saw two sneak attack and assumed he might BS into some more counters but I need a land to play around vindicate. I put one at the bottom and passed the turn with mana open for spell pierce, he BS in the main phase instead of casting jace and passed back, which was correct. On my turn, I drew a land and cast sneak attack, which was countered by his spell pierce. Next turn he drew a vendilion clique and took my second sneak attack, I had nothing relevant since then.

Game three, he countered my blood moon but couldn’t counter my sneak attack.

Final 0:2 vs Team America
Game one, I had sneak attack, FOW and daze in hand, but it was very slow. He drew too many discards and counters also with a descent clock.

Game two, I drew too many emrakul and was mana screwed. My pyroclasm met his counters and next turn he discarded my SnT. I drew a sneak attack at last but my life total couldn’t afford both tapping tomb and cracking the fetch to cast it.


Some thoughts:
1. The current meta is heavily blue, everyone in the room had a lot of cards out of SB to fight sneakshow, I think I should have played imperial painter instead.
2. Daze is great against nearly everything right now. Preordain is good, I think more often I need more real cantrips instead of some information, so I don’t play any probe now.
3. I am considering cutting one sol land for one more fetch, only 7 fetch are not enough for abusing the top. Thougts on this?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Dtb doesnt really mean so much....anyhow. Just played against mud and got owned, worse yet it was my little brother. How do I eleviate this match-up?

Hurkyl's Recall will do it. You can also probe their hand to see their game plan, then counter what their plan hinges on. They rely heavily upon their opening grip and topdecks, so if you can see the plan, it can really disrupt the deck. However, if they open up with a very disruptive hand of Chalice, it's just bad news, which is why I suggest H. Recall in the board if it's something you face often.

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[Souleater734]

Dtb doesnt really mean so much....anyhow. Just played against mud and got owned, worse yet it was my little brother. How do I eleviate this match-up?

As a MUD Player I've never had any trouble from the MUD side. Generally Griselbrand can just get outclassed by Sundering Titan in concert with Wurmcoil Engine or a lone Blightsteel Colossus or Karn can really miss up the show and tell plan. Then there are other times when you go with sneak attack in emrakul they can survive the hit with enough permanents to kill you on the swing back. I've only played the match up on the sneak and show side twice so I don't really know what to tell you, I don't think chalice or trinisphere are particularly good but you might just have to counter those. I would suggest only having basic islands with a sol land or uncracked fetch in play when you cast show and tell so a Sundering Titan has less value. A lot of lists run wasteland but a basic mountain doesn't help much because of titan. Luckily the match up isn't that common as the deck prone to a lot of mulligans and inconsistency which leaves it as a tier 2 deck.

[blindspotxxx]

So with the new set anything we need to prepare for or anything that we can use? :) Haven't been active in the MTG forums lately,

[GoblinZ]

So with the new set anything we need to prepare for or anything that we can use? :) Haven't been active in the MTG forums lately,

There is only a pseudo-O Ring in the new set, but it will not have any impact imo.

[Technicolor Mage]

I know D&T is looking at the new equipment Godsend but I can't see how SoFaI isn't better. Other decks are surely looking at it as well but in general I would say this set offered slim pickings

[GoblinZ]

I know D&T is looking at the new equipment Godsend but I can't see how SoFaI isn't better. Other decks are surely looking at it as well but in general I would say this set offered slim pickings

Actually, I doubt that equipment is good enough even for standard...


And a question, do we really need play 4 emrakul in the maindeck ? I find more often we need just Griselbrand and it is really annoying that sometimes I draw too many fatties and cannot find a way to shuffle them away.

[Unassigned]

Anybody going to Cinci this weekend? I'll be playing in the 4 PM Grinder on Saturday as I'm skipping the Standard Open. I'll be running this, as I expect a heavy Miracles and BUG meta, as both have been running hot lately.

1 Mountain
3 Misty Rainforest
2 City of Traitors
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Lotus Petal
4 Sneak Attack
1 Misdirection
1 Intuition
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell

SB:
2 Blood Moon
2 Through the Breach
2 Swan Song
2 Pyroclasm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pyroblast
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
2 OTHER

For the final 2 SB slots, I've been considering Divert, another Jace, another Grafdigger's Cage, Wipe Away/Echoing Truth, Boseiju, or even V Clique.

Any suggestions?

[JPA]

I would definitely play 2 Cliques. They are really good vs Miracles and even better in the mirror, where they can help you win the game without ever trying to resolve Sneak/Show/Breach.

You could also think about adding 1-2 Tops (maybe cutting 1 Flusterstorm or the Intuition). They are very useful in long games Vs Miracles and help a lot against BUG Delver's discard.

Anyways, good luck in Cinci, Adam!

[GoblinZ]

Another top 8 at Scg open, he plays 2 copies of Blightstell Colossus, which seems interesting.

[JPA]

Went 5-1 for a revised U-Sea and 1 Bye for BoM 10 at the side event yesterday. Will post list and short report when I'm home tonight.

[JPA]

4 Griselbrand
2 Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
4 Lotus Petal
4 Sneak Attack
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Spell Pierce
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Mountain
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Intuition
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand

SB: 2 Through the Breach
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Ashen Rider
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

Here is what I remember of the BoM 10 trial (66 players).

Rd. 1 Death and Taxes

Game 1 I FoW a T1 Aether Vial, he follows up with T2 Thalia, who hits me a few times while I cantrip/land drop/cast Petals for 1. After Gitaxian Probe shows me the coast is clear I go for Show into Sneak into win.

Game 2 he gets an early Thalia online again. When he casts a Flickerwhisp to increase his clock to 2 turns, I have to go for the Show and Tell Emrakul, while he has a Vial on 2 and two cards in hand. He responds to the Show and Tell by vialing Revoker into play, naming Sneak Attack, and the last card in his hand is Karakas, obviously. :wink: The Pyroclasm I find on the following turn doesn't save me, because he can just bounce Thalia and vial her back into play to deal lethal.

Game 3 I keep a hand that allows me to go for T3 Through the Breach Emrakul. He casts a turn 1 Pithing Needle, naming Sneak Attack and follows it up with a Stoneforge Mystic. I annihilate him on the next turn and he doesn't come back.

2-1
1-0

Rd. 2 Elves

Game 1 I go for Gitaxian Probe on turn 2, showing me a Glimpse, NO, and Craterhoof. Even though I have the Show and Tell Griselbrand I decide to wait 1 turn to leave Spell Pierce up for his Glimpse. I go for it on turn 3 and find a FoW for his Natural Order with Griselbrand's Bargain.

Game 2 he starts with Thoughtseize showing him Island, Lotus Petal, Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, Force of Will, Ponder, Emrakul. He decides to take the Ponder, forcing me to draw myself out of it. Naturally, I topdeck Ancient Tomb one turn later after he mini-comboed Turn 2, dumping his whole hand except 1 card onto the board. I go for the Show and Tell, struggling with the decision whether to put Emrakul or Sneak Attack into play (he has more than 6 permanents in play at this point). I decide to put it Emrakul, with the thought process that I would need to topdeck a second creature and a red source for Sneak Attack (remember I only have Island, Lotus Petal and Ancient Tomb as mana sources in play) and would just autolose to a Pithing Needle in his hand.
His last card is Progenitus, which races my Emrakul, accompanied by a horde of Elves. :frown:

Game 3 he mulls to 5 and dies to T2 FoW protected Emrakul.

2-1
2-0

Rd. 3 Dredge

Game 1 I FoW his Putrid Imp and Spell Pierce the following Careful Study. He still gets to start dredging at some point and correctly names Show and Tell with Cabal Therapy on turn 3, where my hand is Emrakul, Griselbrand, Show and Tell, Land. :rolleyes: I don't draw myself back into the game.

Game 2 I keep a controllish hand without combo pieces. I counter everything he does and drop a Cage at some point, while he hardcasts Narcomoeba. After some Moeba-beats I eventually find the combo pieces and end the game.

Game 3 he mulls to 5 while I keep a risky hand of Lotus Petal, Ponder, Brainstorm, Griselbrand, Force of Will, Spell Pierce, Sneak Attack. I FoW (pitching Brainstorm) his T1 enabler and don't find a land in the Ponder. My turn 4 Sneak Attack is too late to stop his Zombie army (he dredged 4 Bridges, 1 Moeba, 1 Ichorid, 1 Dread Return in 12 cards).

1-2
2-1

Rd. 4 BG Depths

Game 1 I Probe into Show and Tell Grisel, who races his Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, Deathrite Shaman team easily.

Game 2 I go for a late Show and Tell Griselbrand again and lose to Diabolic Edict into lethal attack.

Game 3 I land t1 Top to protect me from his heavy discard plan and sneak ftw a couple of turns later.

2-1
3-1

Rd. 5 my opponent didn't show up :(

Rd. 6 Grixis Delver

Game 1 I go for Island Petal Petal Show and Tell on the play, putting Griselbrand against his Tombstalker. He drops U-Sea and Ponders, shuffles, and concedes.

I put him on BUG Delver, which leads to me boarding a little bit wrong for game 2 (should have left the Blood Moons in the board and brought in Boseiju and Pyroclasm instead).

Game 2 he has a very controllish hand and eventually lands a Tombstalker that kills me in 3 hits, while countering my 2 attempts to go off and landing a Pithing Needle on Sneak Attack.

I side correctly for game 3, also boarding the Through the Breaches in against his Pithing Needle.

Game 3 I get an early SDT, which helps me fight through his Liliana and Force of Will to resolve Sneak Attack into Griselbrand, and finding me the match-winning Emrakul 2 turns later.

2-1
5-1

[Unassigned]

I would definitely play 2 Cliques. They are really good vs Miracles and even better in the mirror, where they can help you win the game without ever trying to resolve Sneak/Show/Breach.

You could also think about adding 1-2 Tops (maybe cutting 1 Flusterstorm or the Intuition). They are very useful in long games Vs Miracles and help a lot against BUG Delver's discard.

Anyways, good luck in Cinci, Adam!

Thanks!

I had a great showing at the Grinder on Saturday, but completely got "hosed" at the Open on Sunday.

I mull'd to 4 three times in the first four games. Ended up 5-4 after completely punting the last round, not once, but three times. Opponent was playing mind games and they worked. Pretty disappointed in myself that particular round.

A pair of Boseiju was what I decided to go with in Cinci and they did not disappoint at all. They won me two rounds, one against Miracles and the other was against Esper. I noticed the Blightsteel's in the list that made top 8, and maybe I'll check them out. Seems strange, but it's worth investigating.

Congrats on the U Sea, JPA!

[Juice11]

Another top 8 at Scg open, he plays 2 copies of Blightstell Colossus, which seems interesting.

I've actually been thinking about 2 blightsteel colossus' in the sideboard for combo matchups. Winning the turn you get a guy in play can be a big deal. I wouldn't go main though, emrakul seems way better in every other situation.

[DavidHernandez]

I've actually been thinking about 2 blightsteel colossus' in the sideboard for combo matchups. Winning the turn you get a guy in play can be a big deal. I wouldn't go main though, emrakul seems way better in every other situation.

Back in earlier days Blightsteel was run in the main with Progenitus. Griselbrand was not in the main at all, even in some later lists.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?18871-DTB-Sneak-Attack/page21

He's interesting. I posted the link above for historical reference. If Blightsteel somehow becomes good in the current meta, then maybe some of the other, older, deck tech could become relevant now.

Dave

[Technicolor Mage]

The problem with blightsteel is swords to plowshares is it not and doesn't Blightsteel suffer the way Progenitus does, not good with Sneak Attack?