[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Arianrhod]

“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

Definition of Nic Fit: "A GBx hybrid ramp-control deck which strives to abuse the Veteran Explorer / Cabal Therapy interaction."

Table of Contents:
I. Introductions
II. (Some) Card Selections
IIIA. Historical Notes
IIIB. Naming Conventions
IV. Cabal Therapy Guide
V. The Primary Variants
VI. The Second Variants
VII. The Tertiary Variants
VIII. Coverage Matches

I. Introductions:

Welcome to the Nic Fit community here on Source!

You should play this deck if you like:
-) Your opponents wailing and gnashing their teeth while you unleash cards that they never want to play against upon them
-) A unique hybrid ramp-control style of play that is only really found in us and our sister decks 12post and MUD
-) An archetype with a lot of undiscovered potential and space for individuality and brewing
-) You're coming to Legacy from Standard or Modern. This isn't a budget deck (and can be hilariously in some cases), but a lot of its optimal choices as things that you may already have from newer formats or have been recently reprinted (Deed).

You shouldn't play this deck if:
-) You are harshly critical on what's playable / "real" and not -- Nic Fit can surprise you!
-) You're unwilling to put a lot of time into learning to play this deck. And I mean, a -lot-.

Yup. Those are really the only reasons not to play this deck. Within its deep annals, there is really something for everyone. There's combo variants, hard control variants, Stoneforge variants....you name it, we've got it. And, we're expanding our variants all the time. Come contribute!

It's been generally agreed upon amongst the 'older' Nic Fit pilots that you can reasonably expect to sink a year of your life into this deck before you will be able to reliably top 8 events. This number can fluctuate based on your playtime (every weekend + during the week vs once a month) and also based on your experience with 'similar' decks in other formats. It's important to keep in mind, though, that Nic Fit is a very, very challenging archetype to play. You need to sequence your plays several turns in advance, while still being flexible enough to respond to both your own deck and your opponents' decks changing your plans. You need to learn how to use Cabal Therapy effectively, which involves a massive amount of format knowledge and the ability to pay attention to every little detail and shred of information that is offered to you.

It's very easy to become discouraged in yourself and in the deck after a few months of not putting up results. You just have to stick with it -- and we're here to help!

My name is Kevin "Arianrhod" McKee, and I've been playing Nic Fit since early summer 2011. I've put up a lot of pretty reasonable results with a couple different versions of the deck, and while I'm still hunting for my own breakthrough event instead of consistently top 8ing/16ing/32ing, I'm here to offer opinions and advice to all.

Now, with the introductions out of the way, let's talk about the deck itself!

II. (Some) Card Selections:

Things We Do Run and Why:

A. Pernicious Deed

It has been theorized in the past that you can run Deedless. It's a bad idea. Depending on the situation, your opponent will oftentimes get the benefit from your Explorers (if they get any at all) before you will. Being able to untap and reset the board while still holding your threats in hand is pretty huge.

Dropping Deeds / running 1 copy in the past. My sincere recommendation would be: don't.

B: Green Sun's Zenith

The only times that we don't run at least 3 of this card is when there's either some number of Birthing Pods present in the list, or when most of the creatures are nongreen. It's basically the most powerful creature tutoring option currently available.

C. Eternal Witness

The green Snapcaster. Before Return to Ravnica, we would commonly run 2-3 copies of this card. Unfortunately, Deathrite Shaman has arrived and is the fun police. She's still good enough that you should almost always run a singleton.

D. Sensei's Divining Top

The gold standard for non-blue card filtration and quality. Doesn't die to our Deeds, and we can use it as many times per turn as we have shuffles (which can be a lot). Most versions run 3 copies, although blue versions usually shave to 1-2 due to the addition of Jace and Brainstorm, and Punishing versions have been upping to a 4-of recently.

E. Phyrexian Tower

This unique land leads to some of Nic Fit's most broken opening sequences, with its crazy synergy with Veteran Explorer. Rector versions used to run 2 copies of this land, due to the added focus on sacrifice outlets. Every other version only runs a 1-of, however -- with some versions opting not to run it at all to improve that mana stability at the cost of explosive hands.

F. "Combat" Planeswalkers

This category includes planeswalkers which make tokens or buff creatures. Combat planeswalkers tend to be very good at beating opposing planeswalkers (consider Elspeth, Knight-Errant; Sorin, Lord of Innistrad; Garruk Relentless/Primal Hunter/Apex Predator). One of Nic Fit's weaknesses tends to be to opposing planeswalkers because Pernicious Deed does not kill those like it does everything else. Combat planeswalkers can help shore this up.

Things We Don't Run and Why:

A. Dryad Arbor

-) Dies to your own Pernicious Deeds, Deluges, etc.
-) Usually better in all situations to sandbag the Zenith and Zenith@1 for Explorer instead of @0 for Arbor.
-) Occupies a spell slot, and even then, it will sometimes screw your mana development with its very presence.
-) Natural Order is not currently used in Nic Fit -- this would be the only scenario in which I would support Arbor.

B. Liliana of the Veil

-) Notable Exception: Punishing Nic Fit
-) Most of the problem with Liliana is that our cards are generally much better than our opponents' on a 1-for-1 scale. Bleeding our hand is usually something that is effective against us, and therefore it doesn't make any sense to do it to ourselves.
-) Liliana isn't actually that effective against the decks that we want her to be effective against. Our clock is too slow to kill combo while Liliana keeps their hand low, she's not Show and Tellable, and she does nothing to Sneak Attack.

C. Maindeck Thoughtseizes

-) Too many dead cards in the late game.
-) Doesn't actually kill the opponent.
-) The 2 lifeloss can actually matter in a lot of matchups, because Nic Fit tends to use its life as a resource pretty aggressively.

D. Random EDH / Cube Garbage

-) If you're running a card in Nic Fit, you need to have a specific reason for doing so. Don't think that just because Nic Fit "looks like a cube draft" that means that you can jam anything that you want.
-) Nic Fit variants are very carefully constructed and each card present in them is there for a reason.

E. Sylvan Library

-) See also Thoughtseize on why life loss is bad. Even in matchups where you think your life total is safe, like Miracles, it does end up mattering.
-) Dies to your Deeds and you can't save it like you can with Top.
-) Usually better options exist. I would probably play Read the Bones before Sylvan Library.

IIIA. Historical Notes:

Tao created the Source thread for Nic Fit in late May of 2011, and the thread quickly attracted the attention of deckbuilders due to the interaction formed between Veteran Explorer and Cabal Therapy. Speaking personally, I had discovered the interaction separately around the same time due to the printing of Veteran Explorer in one of the Commander box-sets. Previously, I had no idea the card existed, but I quickly thought of Cabal Therapy and came to Source to investigate if anyone else had thought of the same thing. I was pleasantly surprised to discover the fledgling thread, and have been working on the deck ever since.

The deck remained underground for several months, despite putting up sufficient numbers at local tournaments to keep our interest up. It probably helped that the deck is so much fun to play, as well. Fast forward to July 31st, 2011 -- the Starcity Games Open in Pittsburgh, PA. I was able to get a car around to play in the Legacy Open, and while none of us did that well, my deck attracted the eye of Caleb Durward, who was playing not far from me. We talked about the deck briefly, and he said that he'd seen people playing it on Workstation online, but that he hadn't seen it at an actual event before (paraphrased due to nonexact recollection). Although I ended up at something dismal like 4-3-1, apparently some interest had been sparked.

At the SCG Invitational in Charlotte, in December 2011, Nic Fit got to steal some limelight as Caleb Durward piloted a straight G/B version of the deck to an impressive top 8 finish, and snagged a Deck Tech on the way. Over the next few months, the deck periodically bounced in and out of the Decks to Beat forum on the Source, which signifies a tier one deck. Despite these periodic jumps, the deck has remained a strong tier 1.5/tier 2 contender for much of its life, largely due to a complete lack of true masters and professional players that actually run the deck, as Caleb has continued to experiment with other archetypes after playing Nic Fit to decent finishes several more times.

Since then, the archetype has fragmented into various sub-versions, all with a unique style and personality all their own. Each version can have wildly different matchups, although most share at least a few core similarities. Most of the high-placing finishes for the deck will be categorized with their attending version in section V. While we have yet to win any notable, large-scale tournaments, we have appeared in many such top 8s, and our pilots have pocketed dozens of dual lands and other high-level prizes. The overall archetype's best/most prestigious finish so far is a 10th place by BUG Pod at GP Paris, in February 2014.

IIIB. Naming Conventions:

Our deck's name is so weird and off the beaten path that I feel I must address it in its own section. We don't actually know entirely where Nic Fit came from, before anyone asks. A lot of people assume that it came from a typo....that it was originally supposed to be "Nice Fit." Whether it did or not, however, is questionable, and probably impossible to prove. Caleb Durward noted that he believes the name to refer to the interaction between Explorer and Therapy in his Deck Tech.

Whatever it may have once signified, Nic Fit has come to be synonymous with Therapy/Explorer, although some casters in particular still try to call the deck Explorer Rock, or even more simply, "that Veteran Explorer deck."

Each subset of the deck tends to go by either its shard/wedge name or the name of the specific plan or backup engine that it is abusing. Scapewish comes from Scapeshift + Burning Wish, Punishing Fit as per Punishing Fire, Thunian Fit comes from the Archangel of Thune interactions present in the list, etc.

IV. Cabal Therapy Guide:

Proper Cabal Therapy names are one of the most important aspects of playing the deck. While the following guide is far from perfect, it can be used as a general purpose training tool for when you're just learning the deck and just starting with Therapy. If you have no idea what to do, this is for you. As you get more experienced and more advanced with the deck, some of these calls will change based on a wide variety of factors...but this is a good starting guide.

Miracles
Play: Sensei's Divining Top
Draw: Counterbalance

Top is the most important card in their deck, and on the lpay it's the obvious name. On the draw, try to snag their Counterbalance to shut down their virtual card advantage and keep your early developmental plays clear.

Shardless:
Play: Brainstorm
Draw: Shardless Agent or hold until t2-3 for Jace, or hold until you want to resolve something and name Force
Postboard Play: Brainstorm
Postboard Draw: Hymn to Tourach

On the draw, Therapy isn't that great in this matchup. Frankly, Therapy isn't that good in general, but especially on the draw. Hymn to Tourach is their best card vs you, but they usually only have 1 or at most 2 copies maindeck, so it's generally not worth naming. On turn 2 (if they have DRS) or turn 3 it can be correct to name Jace, but even still they only usually have 1-2 copies of him now as well. It can be wisest to just hold it until you need to resolve something and then slam it on Force of Will. Postboard, adjust to Hymn to Tourach, because they'll be bringing in extra copies of it and actively looking for it in their opening hand.

Stoneblade/Deathblade
Play: Brainstorm
Draw: Hold.

If you're on the play, try to disrupt a shaky keep by taking Brainstorm, which also makes your future Therapies better. If you're on the draw, you want to hold your Therapy so that you can either use it after they Stoneforge for an equipment, or on turn 3 naming Jace TMS.

RUG Delver
Play: Stifle
Draw: Stifle

It's our number one enemy in this matchup. If they don't have it, congrats, you have information and the go-ahead for Explorer to ramp past their tempo. Also keep in mind that they give you information on their hand from Delver. Write it down.

BUG Delver
Play: Stifle
Draw: Stifle

Same as RUG here, really. You can make a strong argument for calling Hymn to Tourach, but Stifle is usually more devastating if they happen to run it.

UWR Delver
Play: Stifle
Draw: Hold for Stoneforge

It's hit or miss whether or not UWR Delver plays Stifle, but it's worth taking the shot on the play. On the draw, they'll usually tap out for Stoneforge on turn 2, which both lowers their shields for Stifle and also gives you information for Therapy. Seize it.

TES and ANT
Play: Dark Ritual
Draw: Dark Ritual

Ideally you want to name mana on the call, and then business on the flashback. Doesn't always work that way though...be prepared to be flexible here. Dark Ritual gets the nod as the initial name because most of their 'broken hands' involve sequences containing Dark Ritual, and it's probably the ritual that they are most likely to keep in their opening hand, vs something like LED that needs a lot of pieces to go with it and is fairly fragile.

Elves
Play: Natural Order
Draw: Natural Order

Natural Order is their pathway to their fastest kill, and it's the first priority to name as a result.

Reanimator
Play: Reanimate
Draw: Exhume

Reanimate is the 'faster' reanimation spell, but it does hurt them badly. Exhume is arguably more dangerous because it doesn't cost them life, meaning they get 7 more cards to defend their Griselbrand with. Worst case, don't forget that you can play around Exhume by Therapying yourself to discard Venser, Frost Titan, Rector, or any other creature that you want to get in play.

Sneak/Show
Play: Show and Tell
Draw: Griselbrand

Show and Tell is their fastest kill. Likewise, Griselbrand is probably the more dangerous thing for them to Sneak Attack because they can draw a million cards to hit Petal + Emrakul and just kill you in one shot.

Death and Taxes
Play: Vial
Draw: Phyrexian Revoker

Deed is our best card here. We know and they know it, and Revoker is their answer to it. Shut it down. Vial is still better to name on the play, though, because sometimes you can catch them keeping the 1-lander+Vial hand, and punishing that when possible is good. Vial also lets them break timing with Flickerwisp and Avenger, so that's good to attack too.

Burn
Play: Lightning Bolt
Draw: Fireblast (or Price of Progress, depending on your draw)

If you have a lot of nonbasics in your draw, name Price -- otherwise, name Fireblast. On the play, call for Lightning Bolt because it's their best burn spell and usually the one they're happiest to have in-hand. That being said, it's a royal crap shoot to hit anything vs burn. All of their cards are basically the same, just with different names.

[Arianrhod]

V. The Primary Variants:

Scapewish

Arianrhod's latest list (9/10/14):

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
2 Wood Elves
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
3 Scapeshift

3 Pernicious Deed

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Taiga
2 Stomping Grounds
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

SB:
3 Slaughter Games
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
1 Innocent Blood
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pyroclasm

Finishes:
Kevin McKee - 2nd - Mythic Games - 7/21/12
Kevin McKee - 4th - Jupiter Games - 8/11/12
Eric Warns - 7th - SCG Open Minneapolis - 9/2/12
Luigi Lescarini - 4th BBC #1 Roma 9 - 9/9/12
Louis Soloman - 4th - Jupiter Games - 11/3/12
Juan Miguel Carrascosa - 1st - Mishra's Factory Open - 11/17/12
Sam Castrucci - 12th - SCG Open Baltimore - 12/2/12
Kevin McKee - 4th - Jupiter Games - 12/15/12
Kevin McKee - 13th - SCG Open Columbus - 1/6/13
Kevin McKee - 7th - Mythic Games - 1/12/13
Evan Flynn - 5th - Mythic Games - 1/12/13
Dario Moreno - 6th - 1 LML 2013 - 1/12/13
Eugenio Arano - 3rd - Cerberus Open 3 - 1/20/13
Kaarle Tukia - 3rd - GPT Strasbourg / Kuukkacon - 3/2/13
Evan Flynn - 8th - Mythic Games - 3/9/13
Roberto Geada - 5th - GPT Strasbourg / 3 LML Madrid - 3/16/13
Kevin McKee - 8th - Mythic Games - 4/13/13
Ludovico Pagliughi - 4th - MLL#12 Milano - 6/9/13
Sam Higgins - 8th - Jupiter Games - 6/22/13
Pablo Montoya - 6th - 6 LML 2013 - 6/29/13
Pagliughi Ludovico - 6th - MLL#1 Piacenza - 9/22/13
Kevin McKee - 5th - Mythic Games - 11/9/13
Gianluca Barbati - 2nd - GBLL Tappa 3 - 11/17/13
Ludovico Pagliughi - 5th - Nebraska's War / Viareggio - 12/7/13
Kevin McKee - 10th - Tales of Tales of Adventure - 12/7/13
Manuel Torres - 7th - Legacy Open IV / Cantrabria - 12/14/13
Adrian Perez - 6th - GPT Paris / Barcelona - 1/11/14
Romain Van Den Daelen - 4th - GPT Paris / Paris - 1/25/14
Giacomo Befani - 6th - T1.5 T#8 / Pisa - 3/16/14
David Rice - 8th - Tales of Adventure 40 Duals - 3/30/14

Summary
Scapewish is the archetype with perhaps the highest pedigree amongst Nic Fits. In addition to the above major finishes (events with over 32 players), it has a large host of smaller event finishes which I opted to not include. The original seed idea came from a pair of small European event finishes from Summer 2012 merging the Nic Fit core with a Scapeshift aesthetic. These lists were very nascent, using multiple copies of Primeval Titan, Foratog, and some other choices which in today's world seem bizarre. I took this core idea and revised the list, refocusing it a bit -- this led me to a string of finishes over the next 6 months, which attracted a lot of other players to the archetype. While Scapewish has fallen off in popularity a bit in 2014, it's still very alive and worth considering moving forward.

Scapewish functions as a midrange beatdown deck, presenting powerful creature threats like Huntmaster, Thragtusk, and Stormbreath Dragon. However, these creatures, while respectable and certainly capable of winning the game on their own, are primarily smoke and mirrors. The creature plan serves to mask the true looming threat: a combo kill with Scapeshift searching up Valakuts and mountains. Here's how the Scapeshift kill works:

-) Scapeshift (resolves) sacrificing 7 lands, fetches Valakut + 6 mountains. Valakut sees all 6 mountains entering play at the same time, which means each mountain counts as the "6th mountain" which will trigger Valakut. This deals 18 damage.

-) Scapeshift (resolves) sacrificing 8 lands, fetches 2 Valakut + 6 mountains. This will deal 36 damage.

-) Scapeshift (resolves) sacrificing 8 lands, fetches Valakut + 7 mountains. This is how you beat onboard Wasteland. Add a mountain for each untapped Wasteland.

Coupled with the Burning Wishes, Scapewish plays a total of 7 effective copies of Scapeshift, not counting any that get discarded or countered, which turns on Eternal Witness + 4 Zeniths as further 'effective copies'. The Scapeshift kill is very redundant -- given enough time, it WILL happen. This means that many games end up being race scenarios where your opponent may not even realize that you're racing.

The Burning Wishes can do a lot more than just fetch Scapeshift, of course. They also present a great deal of utility, enabling the pilot to fetch additional discard, sweepers, spot removal and the powerful anti-combo disruption of Slaughter Games. Innocent Blood, while also removal, enables you to Wish for a sacrifice outlet to off a struggling Explorer. Burning Wish can gain further utility postboard, as you can sideboard out a Green Sun's Zenith for grindy matchups to increase your midgame threat density even further.

Strengths:
-) A strong, linear plan which is good against random decks and redundant enough to be very hard to stop
-) Some of the better anti-combo sideboard options Nic Fit has to offer
-) A solid plan B which is sometimes good enough to get there on its own
-) Can steal game 1 vs combo with discard + a fast Scapeshift

Weaknesses:
-) Fairly unstable manabase that can be easily attacked early in the game
-) A complete lack of lategame power -- after turn 10, this deck becomes pretty unfavored against current decks

Matchups:

Miracles:

Cointoss game one, slightly favored game 2-3. Some games you'll get out underneath them, drain their resources with Thragtusks and Stormbreaths, and then wombo them from nowhere. Some games you'll get turn 3 Entreated, they'll Force your Deed, and you'll die. Postboard you gain Slaughter Games, Decays, and Red Elemental Blasts -- all of which are superb in this matchup. You also board in a lot of the Burning Wish targets for the Wishes themselves, since the Wishes can be Hydroblasted and are easily Counterbalanced.

How you win:
-) Slaughter their Jaces and park a Deed in play. Without their Jaces, it's much harder for them to countertop Scapeshift, which taxes their resources heavily. Deed stops Entreat.
-) Slaughter their Entreats. If game one took a long time, consider going after Entreat before Jace, because Entreat is a typically faster wincon.
-) Slaughter their Force of Wills. If you have a lot of ramp / a Scapeshfit and they don't have CB/Top online, it can sometimes be correct to just rush the combo.
-) Slaughter their Terminuses and go dudebro beatdown. Without Terminus, Stormbreath Dragon is very hard for Miracles to effectively shut down. Without Terminus in their deck, they also cannot CB/Top Zenith@5 or Primeval Titan, both of which can be relevant if you're on the dude plan.

How you lose:
-) Early, unanswered CB/Top (turn 2 assembled) locks you out of your early game development.
-) Counterspells + Snapcaster + Clique tempos you out of the game.
-) Fast Jace starts fatesealing immediately while they ensure that they can protect it.
-) Fast Entreat + they have a counterspell for your Deed.
-) Long, grindy 10+ turn game in which they bury you in cards and/or assemble Clique/Venser/Karakas.

Delver (RUG, BUG, UWR):

All of these matchups play out roughly the same, so I'll group them together, noting specific differences as I come to them. Scapewish is generally favored vs all three, however all three are perfectly capable of stealing games out from under you. In general your dude plan is less effective here, although Thragtusk in particular is a beating for all versions of Delver. Pernicious Deed is the best card in your deck; Stifle is your opponent's best. Veteran is pure value here, and necessary to help you escape their conditional, soft countermagic.

How you win:
-) Thragtusk.
-) Even better, double Thragtusk.
-) Pernicious Deed + a beefy body to stabilize the board.
-) A midgame Scapeshift when they're out of resources.

How you lose:
-) The Delver pilot correctly identifies the important of Sakura-Tribe Elder and Wood Elves. They're usually good about stopping Explorers, but sometimes decide that Sakura-Tribe isn't worth Dazing or Wood Elves isn't worth Stifling. They are.
-) Double Delver + Wasteland + Stifle + Daze + Force hands. We've all been there. It's as good vs us as it is vs any other deck in the history of the game.
-) BUG Delver Hymn to Tourachs you clean out of the game and then makes a Tombstalker.
-) UWR Delver assembles TNN+equip and you don't have an answer / your answer gets countered.
-) RUG Delver gets you low early and then goes triple Lightning Bolt.

Shardless BUG:

This matchup is really strange and feels very draw-dependent. I've had games where it feels like the matchup is a bye...going both ways. They play a lot of planeswalkers, which we're typically ill-equipped to fight adequately, and Thragtusk in particular is pretty questionable in the matchup. We usually end up playing more to our combo side than our midrange side here, because if we play like a midrange deck, we lose pretty badly. By contrast, they generally only have 3-4 Force of Wills to actually stop us from killing them with Scapeshift.

How you win:
-) Stall until you can Scapeshift safely (care of Wastelands). This usually involves casting / Zenithing for as many Explorers as possible as quickly as possible.
-) Pernicious Deed is pretty good here as well, but you NEED to have a Thrag or Stormbreath to follow it up or they'll just rebuild. Deed not killing their planeswalkers is particularly bad here.

How you lose:
-) Hymn to Tourach happens.
-) They clock you down before you can really do anything. This usually involves multiple Tar Pits and either discard or a Force of Will for Deed.
-) Turn 2 Liliana, when backed up appropriately, can be very bad.
-) They resolve multiple Ancestrals, which allows them to rebuild right past your Deeds.
-) Meddling Mage can be a threat, although you should generally be able to answer it with a backup sweeper.

Elves:

This is a poor matchup for us, with Elves generally favored in all stages. Symbiote can save their elves from sweepers, and they're fairly redundant to discard since they can just topdeck another threat pretty easily. They also get value from the first Explorer, which can turbocharge them depending on their draws. All you can really try to do is disrupt them as much as possible as often as possible. Don't be afraid to sweep even if you'll only get 2-3 elves. Keep it as clear as you can and hope that you kill them before they kill you.

How you win:
-) Multiple board wipes into Huntmaster. Huntmaster's flips can devastate Elves if you run them out of resources.
-) Discard + 1-2 sweepers into a fast Scapeshift can steal some games.
-) Slaughter Games on Craterhoof can be pretty good, but keep in mind that Slaughter Games doesn't actually deal with any resolved threats on board.

How you lose:
-) They goldfish you while you draw noninteractive cards.
-) You sweep them, but they Glimpse off afterward.
-) They Thoughtseize the crap out of you and then goldfish you.
-) They make a Progenitus and you can't find an answer (read: Deluge).
-) They combo Deathrite Shaman with multiple untaps and drain you out.
-) They assemble Visionary + Symbiote in a grindy situation.

Stoneblade/Deathblade:

This is usually a pretty favored matchup, but you do need to respect some of their draws. In general, though, their cards are fairly low powered compared to yours, and they fall into the same camp as Shardless in that they don't have enough counterspell backup to effectively protect themselves from Scapeshift. Respect their sideboard options, for they are many and diverse. Also remember that True-Name with equipment is a beating, and that they do play some quantity of planeswalkers depending on the pilot.

How you win:
-) A midgame Scapeshift, Burning Wish, or sometimes Green Sun off the top.
-) Primeval Titan is a pretty good plan here, as is Stormbreath Dragon.
-) Deed away their board.
-) Sandbag a Therapy until they play Stoneforge Mystic and take their equipment.
-) Burning Wish for Massacre can really catch these decks with their pants down and sweep them unexpectedly when they think you don't have the mana to wrath them.

How you lose:
-) You get kolded by some random weird sideboard option.
-) TNN + equipment happens and you can't find an answer.
-) Turn 2 Liliana can be problematic depending on your draw and theirs.
-) You get ground out by Lingering Souls.
-) They curve out and have just enough disruption to keep you off-balance while they aggro you out.

Sneak and Show: Less good now than when the Slaughter Games were maindeck. If they have Leyline of Sanctity you probably just lose -- if they don't, your discard and Slaughters can rip them to shreds with REB backup. Prioritize Emrakul and then Griselbrand with Slaughter Games.

Storm: Again, less good than it was -- but also less popular. If vs TES, prioritize Burning Wish with Slaughter Games. Vs ANT, you may be able to just name Ad Nauseam and win on the spot.

Reanimator: Stone unwinnable. Seriously, they can mull to four while drinking absinthe with one hand tied behind their back and they will beat your best possible 7.

Death and Taxes: This is pretty good for you. Respect the possibility of Mirran Crusader + equips, but otherwise you just have too many redundant sweepers for them to stop you. Your manabase -can- shit on itself and enable them to steal, though.

GBx midrange (junk & jund): Play to your combo half, because your beatdown plan is not good enough here. This is simply a struggle for you to stay alive until you can make them dead. Watch out for stray Wastelands, and if they're running Knighto f the Reliquary, keep that threat in mind as well.

Punishing Fit

HoneyT's latest list (9/11/14):

// Deck: P-Fire Nic Fit (60)

// Lands
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
3 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
1 Broodmate Dragon
2 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer

// Spells
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Punishing Fire
4 Sensei's Divining Top

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge

Ralf's latest list (8/28/14):

1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mountain
1 Savannah
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Badlands
2 Forest
3 Bayou
3 Swamp
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs

1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
2 Eternal Witness
4 Veteran Explorer

1 Garruk Relentless
3 Liliana of the Veil

1 Batterskull
3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Pernicious Deed

2 Diabolic Edict
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire

2 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Kitchen Finks
SB: 1 Dryad Militant
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Thoughtseize

Finishes:
Alexander Podeschwa - 1st - IS-MAGIC - 4/22/12
Alain Martin - 2nd - 6 Torneo LLG - 6/2/12
Alain Martin - 8th - 7 Torneo LLG - 7/28/14
Juan Garcia Pardillo - 5th - Torneo Evolution-Sevilla - 8/26/12
Bota Varzquez - 3rd - TLA Torneo 6 - 11/11/12
Juan Garcia Pardillo - 1st - 1er Torneo Navidad Evolution-Sevilla - 12/8/12
Michael Pilz - 4th - Sunday Legacy Wien - 12/16/12
Louie Funelas - 6th - Manila Legacy Wars 6 - 2/3/13
David Clark - 20th - SCG Open Atlanta - 2/3/13
Tim Wilson - 8th - SCG Open Kansas City - 3/24/13
Claudio Mineri - 7th - Stargate Mantova - 5/12/13
Claudio Mineri - 7th - Verona Evil#10 - 6/9/13
Claudio Mineri - 4th - Olympus#5 - 6/30/13
Daeva Tommaso - 4th - KING 1 Roma - 9/8/13
Jakob Peschel - 6th - MKM Legacy Turniers in Nurnberg - 12/14/13
Borja David Palachio - 4th - Legacy Open IV / MTG Cantabria - 12/14/13
Jakob Peschel - 7th - MKM Legacy Turniers in Nurnberg - 12/21/13
Giacomo Befani - 6th - T1.5T#8 / Pisa - 3/16/14

Summary:
This variety is one of the hardest/purest control lists amongst the archetype. You kill everything, and what you can't kill, you make them sacrifice. This is the only version that can effectively / happily run Liliana of the Veil, due to her synergy with Punishing Fire meaning that you aren't just eating cards out of your hand. Perhaps the most common finisher in this version is ThrunRun: Thrun + Kessig Wolf Run. Some prefer to eschew the ThrunRun plan in exchange for Phyrexian Tower + Volrath's Stronghold. Still others prefer to use grindier threats like planeswalkers and Batterskull. Whatever your win condition, though, it's slow and ponderous -- as with most true control decks.

These sections were written by HoneyT -- thanks!

Strengths:
-) One of the best “board control” decks in Legacy. This deck utterly decimates the midrange/creature decks of the format
-) Arguably the best Nic Fit variant against combo due to being able to play Liliana of the Veil maindeck
-) The ability to grind with the blue decks of the format
-) Punishing Fire. Seriously

Weaknesses:
-) Just like all Nic Fit variants, combo is not great for us
-) Like all Nic Fit variants, decks that we can't interact profitably with that go bigger than us (a la Cloudpost) are stone unwinnable.
-) Not a weakness per se, but this is the slowest/grindiest of the Nic Fit variants. If you're a slower player, the clock can certainly be an issue

Matchups:

Miracles:

This is a pretty even matchup. As long as you can keep Counterbalance and Jace in check with Decays and Punishing Fires respectively, and can sit on a Deed for Entreat, you shouldn't have any problems grinding them out of resources and killing them with something. Thrun does tons of work forcing them to find a Terminus. At that point it's not unreasonable to to actually kill them with Punishing Fires. Play fast, these games go VERY long. Post-board we get great tools in REB and Slaughter Games. Pray they never draw Keranos and you should be good post-board.

Delver (RUG, BUG, UWR):

As the case for all Nic Fit variants, these are generally very favorable matchups. However any Delver deck is certainly capable of getting underneath you and stealing some games. Priority one is setting off an Explorer to catapult you past their soft counters. At that point their deck is not equipped to beat any of our threats. Pernicious Deed is your best card. Stifle is theirs (mostly out of RUG) so watch out/Therapy that first. Hymn can also randomly win the game for BUG.

Shardless BUG:

Another very favorable matchup, Punishing Fire kills everything outside of Goyf. Jace and multiple Visions are their only real hope of winning and we get excellent sideboard cards to further combat them in REBs. Hymn, while very good for them, is not usually backed up by enough of a clock to put the game away. With 4 Tops, you can usually draw out of it and stick a threat they can't handle. Veteran Explorer is MVP vs them as they can't remove it without killing it. Try to save Therapies for a potential Jace or Force to stick a threat. You have easy answers to pretty much everything else in their deck.

Elves:

While it doesn't look too bad on paper, this matchup is actually slightly unfavorable. Most of their reasonable draws are fast enough to get ahead of our disruption. Sometimes Punishing Fire and Deeds are simply too slow. However, with some good Therapies and if we can avoid some topdecks, we can maneuver the gamestate where we gain total control of the board and can clean up with a Huntmaster or other threat. Post board gets slightly better with access to more discard, Slaughter Games, and a couple cheap sweepers.

Stoneblade/Deathblade:

This is almost unlosable. Really, Punishing Fire takes care of almost everything, Deed cleans up TNN. It's incredibly hard for them to establish a clock and it's very easy to run them out of resources and take over the game.

Sneak and Show: You almost can't win game one. You almost can't lose post-board if they don't have Leyline. Between the extra discard + Sugical, REBs, and Slaughter Games, they have a hard time fighting through the hate without Leyline.

Storm: Again, tough to win game one, though this version has a better shot to steal game one on the back of Liliana. And again, you almost can't lose post-board. If you can Slaughter Wishes vs TES and Tendrils vs ANT they're going to have a rough time trying to win.

Reanimator: Same as the other combo decks, though they're tougher to beat post-board as they can interact with your interaction easier than the others with discard in addition to countermagic.

Death and Taxes: Midrange-y creature deck. Favorable, though not as easy as it looks on paper. They do have draws that can compete that typically involve Thalia with Wastelands and Ports into an Avenger or them being able to protect a Revoker on Deed while they keep your mana in check. Don't get blown out by Flickerwisp shennanigans and you should be ok.

GBx midrange (junk & jund): Another very favorable matchup. We play their game, but we do it bigger and better than they do. Not much else to say here.

Abzan (gbw) Wish

jbone's latest list (9/9/14):

Dudes (14)
4 Vets
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda
1 Baneslayer Angel
non-dudes (25)
2 Thoughtseize
3 Tops
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Therapy
3 GSZ
1 Diabolic Intent
3 Living Wish
3 Deed
1 Jitte
1 StP
2 Decay
1 Batterskull
Land (22)
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Board
1 Karakas
1 Bog
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ashen Rider
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Tsumani
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Humility
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Innocent Blood

Finishes:
Bruce Mills - 7th - SCG Open Birmingham - 4/22/12
Bruce Mills - 8th - SCG Open Madison - 5/13/12
A handful of SCG Open top 64s, some smaller event top 8s.

Summary
JBone's personal project, descended from the old "junk" approach. This version runs Stoneforge Mystic as an additional toolbox, along with Living Wish to accelerate into silver bullets from the sideboard. Both of these toolboxes also serve to increase the deck's overall threat density, which allows the list to play a little bit more disruption than most. Qweerios also worked on a version similar to this for a while. While still very much a work in progress, it has shown quite a bit of promise and has earned Jbone some good finishes.

Strengths:
-) Tremendously flexible and tunable. Most of the flex comes from toolbox effects, which reduces the chance of drawing the wrong half of your deck for a given matchup.
-) Significantly more disruption than most Nic Fit lists, which enables a much better win rate against combo.

Weaknesses:
-) Deep wishboard removes a lot of space for "actual" sideboard cards.
-) Few effective wincons. Sigarda is no longer as reliable as she used to be, and most of the format is set up to beat a Batterskull anyway.

Matchups:

TBD

Thunian Fit (nee Rector)

Arianrhod's latest list (9/10/14):

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Selvala, Explorer Returned
1 Eternal Witness
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
2 Spike Feeder
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Academy Rector
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Spike Weaver
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Council's Judgment
1 Toxic Deluge

2 Abrupt Decay

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Whip of Erebos

3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Gavony Township

sb::
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Tsunami
2 Baneslayer Angel
2 Pithing Needle

Finishes:
Elias Klocker - 5th - Legacyturniers - 4/30/2011
Michael Thiel - 4th - Legacyturniers - 8/27/11
Matthias Frauenschlager - 3rd - GPT Amsterdam / Nurnberg - 10/1/11
Andrea Ciotta - 4th - PCLL#3 / Piacenza - 12/18/11
Stephane Roumanille - 7th - Legacy Cachan - 1/15/12
Angelo Cortazzo - 2nd - GA Vimercate LRS2012#1 - 2/12/12
Chris Higashi - 8th - SCG Open Phoenix - 4/15/12
Peter Venema - 7th - SCG Invitational Qualifier - 6/3/12
Marco Lazzazzara - 8th - Finale BBC - 6/10/12
Kevin McKee - 6th - Jupiter Games July - 7/14/12
Juan Jose Valero - 5th - Genshiken Duals Tournament - 8/25/12
Steve Thompson - 12th - SCG Open Providence - 10/14/12
Roberto Turriziani - 4th - KMTG#3 - 11/25/12
Kevin McKee - 6th - Mythic Games - 7/20/13
Some small local top 8s.

Summary:
This particular version is one of the oldest versions of the archetype, second only to the (now outdated) straight GB versions. While it looks quite a bit different than it did 'back in the day,' the core philosophy remains the same: a rock-inspired approach involving a fair amount of spot removal + efficient sweepers coupled with some card advantage (usually in the form of recursion), some toolboxes, and powerful, efficient creatures. Lately, this version has been moving more towards a higher threat density due to the greatly improving quality of removal across the format.

This version currently has some problems in the metagame and is not recommended at this time. That being said, it is getting a massive upgrade in Khans in the form of Siege Rhino. This creature will have implications for this archetype, and it looks to regain its position near the top of the Nic Fit hierarchy.

Strengths:
-) Arguably the highest raw power level across all Nic Fits. Your gameplan often is just slamming bombs until the opponent is out of answers. All of your threats are must-answers or they will take the game over.
-) Spikes provide a ton of synergy with themselves and the rest of the deck, as well as offer a combo kill via Archangel of Thune.
-) One of the best Elves matchups amongst Nic Fits courtesy of its powerful hatebear sideboard plan.
-) The best removal options amongst the archetype. It may not play as many removal spells as some others (notably BUG Walkers), but it gets Council's Judgment alongside the more traditional GB options.
-) Your burn matchup is a joke, and your raw power level is so high that you can smash through most random / budget decks, making this an attractive option for Grand Prixs and other large events that attract budget / nonlegacy players.

Weaknesses:
-) Usually doesn't have enough card advantage to actually keep up with the current quantities and quality of removal in the format. X-for-1ing with powerful bombs is a fine plan, but when blue decks are armed with Council's Judgment, Snapcaster, Swords, Terminus, and Verdict, it's very hard to actually execute this plan.
-) Sneak and Show is a hole in this version's combo armor, in addition to the turn 1 combo decks that all Nic Fits struggle with.

Matchups:

Miracles:

This is the main reason that this version is struggling currently. They have such a superfluity of insanely powerful removal that it can be very hard to overpower them. It doesn't help that they're both the better "7 basics" deck as well as the better Sensei's Top deck. Postboard you do gain some strong help in the form of Tsunami, but this matchup is still no joke even if you half-Armageddon them, as they can dig out with Top and white sweepers/removal buying them time.

How you win:
-) Get lucky and they brick on removal for a couple of turns. This is unlikely, but variance does happen, even to this deck.
-) Tsunami away most of their lands and slam the door while they fail to find Terminuses.

How you lose:
-) EoT Entreat you for a million.
-) They exile literally every single threat you have.
-) They protect an early Jace and he either fateseals you out or buries you in cards.

Delver:

Delver variants are usually pretty easy for this deck. The amount of lifegain, stall, and removal that it brings to the table can be very hard for Delver strategies to effectively deal with. In addition, you gain Carpet of Flowers out of the sideboard, which helps you ramp to your bombs through their softcounters. As with any variety of Delver, it's still possible to lose randomly to them, but overall this has historically been one of the best matchups for this deck, and it continues to be so.

How you win:
-) Your deck functions.

How you lose:
-) Your deck doesn't function.
-) They get "delver hands."

Shardless BUG:

Shardless is very grindy, and can at first seem to be kind of a harder matchup. There's a trick to this matchup, though -- you spam Veteran Explorers. Seriously, play / Zenith up as many Explorers as fast as possible in this matchup. Shardless is randomly susceptible to an army of 1/1s that they don't want to block beating them down. At 3 Explorers, you can effective pressure their planeswalkers and force them to make you get lands. Alternatively, if they have a very dude-heavy draw, you can beat with a couple while leaving one back, and force them to attack into it. Once you set off 2-3 Explorers, you should be able to overpower them fairly easily.

How you win:
-) Make a bunch of lands courtesy of prioritizing Explorer heavily, and then play a game of EDH to your opponent's underpowered creatures.

How you lose:
-) You don't make enough Explorers quickly enough and they get too much of a grasp on the game too quickly.
-) They resolve 3+ Ancestrals.
-) They have the Deathrite -> Liliana -> Jace -> 2x dudes curve. It's very rare, but it can happen and is pretty backbreaking for us if it does.

Elves:

Elves is not that bad for this particular version. Most of our removal is a little slow, so you still basically need to hit Explorer/Therapy/Deed or Deluge early in game one if you want to win that. Postboard, they need to slow their deck down quite a bit by adding Thoughteizes and Decays, and while this lets them fight our hate, it also slows them down enough that our more powerful hate options can come online. You can also threaten TitanDeed if the game goes long enough, which Elves actually straight cannot beat.

How you win:
-) Explorer/Therapy into a Deed or a Deluge is pretty backbreaking. Just make sure you slam the door quickly or they will rebuild with Glimpse or Visionary/Symbiote.
-) A fast Archangel/Spike combo can also do good work in this matchup, although you're going to need some kind of disruption if you want to live that long.
-) Spike Weaver can be hilariously backbreaking for them. Just respect the potential of their Deathrite Shamans just burning you out with multiple untaps.

How you lose:
-) The aforementioned Deathrite burn plan.
-) They turn 2 you.
-) They have one disruption spell for your hate, and then Glimpse off.
-) They make a turn 2-turn 3 Progenitus. Note that Baneslayer can race Progenitus, and if they go all-in on the Prog plan, it opens the window for you to aim for the combo. Spike Weaver also defeats Progenitus.

Stoneblade/Deathblade:

This matchup is a slugfest on both sides, since both decks' power levels are very high. You generally should have enough sweepers (and Council's Judgments) for their True-Names. As in other variants of Nic Fit, shutting down the equipment is top priority -- without their equipment, they are just a deck of underpowered creatures that can't hold a candle to your own. THey've cut way back on the planeswalkers lately, which is good for us. Lingering Souls can be a pain in the ass if they're on that plan, but we should have enough air power to hold off an army of spirits.

How you win:
-) Shut down their equipment with Therapies, Decays, Judgments, and Deeds.
-) Shut down their True-Names with Deluge, Deeds, and Judgments.
-) Look for an opportunity to combo. They're going to generally be stretched very thin between their counterspells, discard, removal, and threats.

How you lose:
-) You fail to resolve their equipment, especially if it gets attached to a True-Name.
-) They curve out and punish you before you can escape your early game developmental stage. It's rare that they can actually slam the door before you stabilize, but it can happen with certain hands.

Sneak and Show: This is the achilles heel for this version. Show and Tell can be dangerous for them (as with any version of Nic Fit), but Sneak Attack is pretty big game. The sideboard Pithing Needles (which should probably be Revokers) help a lot, but this matchup is still very hard -- especially if they sideboard Through the Breach.

Storm: Not fantastic, but winnable. The hatebears are effective against them, but it can be hard to effectively slam the door before they dig out.

Reanimator: Strangely winnable. Spike Weaver is deceptively powerful here, as he will usually buy you enough time to Deed away their huge monsters. Baneslayer matches up well against Griselbrand, and when Khans comes out, we also gain Anafenza, which will change how you play this particular matchup (Therapy goes after Entomb and Careful Study over the actual reanimation spells). There will also likely be a Scavenging Ooze in the list moving forward, as well as possibly Abzan Charms, which can function as additional monster removal. Sometimes they'll make a turn 1 Griselbrand and you'll just lose, but if they stumble at all, you can punish them.

Death and Taxes: You generally have enough removal and air superiority to be okay here. Watch out for Mirran Crusader postboard, as always. Council's Judgment can exile Revokers regardless of Mother of Runes, so your Deeds should generally be live. They also need to be cautious of you gaining infinite life, since they can't actually beat you at that point.

GBx Midrange: Grindcore festival. Your power level is overall higher than theirs, but watch out for the disruption-heavy curve-out hands. They can sometimes apply enough pressure quickly enough with just enough disruption to be a problem. Sigarda is your #1 here, since she renders Liliana moot and is also impossible for them to get rid of.

[Arianrhod]

Sultai (bug) Control

Arianrhod's latest list (9/10/14):
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Eternal Witness
2 Notion Thief
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 The Mimeoplasm
1 Thragtusk
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Frost Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Diabolic Intent

2 Brainstorm
2 Abrupt Decay

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Future Sight
1 Recurring Nightmare

2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Phyrexian Tower

sb::
1 Bribery
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Batterskull
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Krosan Grip
2 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cranial Extraction
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm

Finishes:
Jonas Kozak - 1st - Czech Legacy Series 6 - 11/10/12
Tao - 5th - Magic-League Legacy Master - 12/30/12
Kyle Weaver - 7th - Tales of Tales of Adventure - 12/7/13
Kyle Weaver - 4th - Bazaar of Moxen Qualifier - 2/22/14

Summary:
The idea of putting blue in the original GB Nic Fit is as old as the archetype, and throughout its history, generic BUG-colored control lists have shown up on and off. Generally speaking, these lists are "gimmick" free, although they may have a package of cards that has a subtheme. In my list above, for example, I have a strong blue-anti-blue subtheme, with the Notion Thiefs, ConSphinx, Glen Elendras, and Mikokoro present.

Usually, BUG Control oriented Nic Fits will run some number of planeswalkers, but it won't be the list's focus. Instead, these decks run some of the powerful Ux creatures -- where many of which do very unique things and are the best at what they do. Soem number of Baleful Strix is almost always present. Additionally, due to the higher density of blue-based, non-green creatures in these lists, Green Sun's Zenith is often de-emphasized for either more raw card advantage or for alternate tutoring options, like Living Wish.

One of the big draws of putting blue in your Nic Fit list is that you get to play with some impressively broken cards. It's very hard to lose a game after 2+ turns of Future Sight being alive. Likewise, you gain perhaps the best Sneak and Show matchup of any variant, courtesy of Clique, Glen Elendra, Venser, and Frost Titan -- not counting your "traditional" postboard hate options like Flusterstorms and Thoughtseizes.

Strengths:
-) You're Shardless BUG's literal worst nightmare. You give them more waking-up-suddenly-screaming-and-palms-sweating moments than Burn does, even.
-) Brainstorm is the most played / arguably most broken card in legacy. While you don't want to run too many of them yourself, you can greatly punish others for doing so.
-) Cliques and Glen Elendras shore up everything that Baleful Strix doesn't, presenting a fairly robust plan against most decks.
-) Lots of card advantage, both literal and virtual.

Weaknesses:
-) A lot of your threats are seriously underpowered. Your creatures tend more towards the utility side of things, and oftentimes you win by pure value, not by having any really potent threats.
-) You can struggle with Burn, which is normally a positive matchup for basically every other version.
-) Largely unproven on the grand scale. While it does have some pedigree, most pilots have opted for Punishing, Rector, and Scapewish historically, and neglected blue versions.
-) None of the backup tutoring options are as good as Green Sun's Zenith, but Green Sun is pretty bad for you.

Matchups:

Miracles:

This matchup is insanely grindy. Honestly, your core plan is to win game one, and thus the match. Be aware of the clock, as it may behoove you to scoop early in game one to preserve time and try to win the next two. Your sideboard has strong options here, but your maindeck is already set up pretty well to win the long game. Take out CB when possible, but be wary of Entreat the Angels, as they can steal the game out from under you. A resolved Glen Elendra is big game, especially if you can get to her before they drop a Jace. Cliqueing Miracle triggers is very good for you, and Notion Thief can mess up a lot of their card filtering and attempts at instant-speed miracle-ing.

How you win:
-) Notion Thief blowouts. Oftentimes Notion Thiefing a Brainstorm (or, even better, a Jacestorm) won't outright win you the game -- but it will put you massively ahead.
-) Consecrated Sphinx is your last bomb. Use everything else first if at all possible...suck up as much of their removal as you possibly can before playing Sphinx. With luck, you can then ride Sphinx the rest of the way.
-) Early pressure Glen, Thief, and Clique...ideally in that order (Glen covers Thief, Thief shuts down their card draw, and Clique is a flying, cantripping Thoughtseize).
-) A resolved Future Sight or Recurring Nightmare loop. Either one will generate so much value so quickly that Miracles will crumple.

How you lose:
-) You aren't protective enough of your bombs. Know what matters in the matchup. Always, always be careful of the possibility of EoT Entreat for a million, kill you.
-) They get out ahead early with a protected Jace.
-) They randomly Blood Moon you, Thopter Foundry you, or do something else unexpected from their sideboard. Note that I wouldn't expect them to board in Blood Moons vs Nic Fit, but respect the possibility.

Delver:

The Delver matchup is a little different for BUG Nic Fit. You don't generally have space in your sideboard for Carpet of Flowers, so you can't lean on that. Instead, you have Baleful Strix to slow the game down, and Abrupt Decays to help smooth things out. Coupled with Cliques and Glens, you have a lot of flying creatures that can block and kill a Delver. Instead, focus on the ground threat. Deter their Goyfs by leaving Veteran Explorers in play when possible.

Be judicious of your life total and how much of it you can safely afford to use as a resource. Goyf grows very large, very quickly in these matchups. Playing the tempo game is 100% acceptable -- odds are, you won't need to use Jace to Brainstorm as much in this matchup, so just using him to unsummon and reset opposing creatures is fine. Notion Thief blowouts won't happen often, but if it happens even once, you likely win on the spot. This matchup is so tenuous for Delver that they can't afford Recalling and double Time Walking you off of a Brainstorm. ConSphinx and Frosty the Snowman are both bigger than their everything, and Frosty can keep Goyfs under control easily.

How you win:
-) The usual Nic Fit plan: get ahead on mana, get ahead on cards, and crush them with superior power.
-) Pretty much any Nightmare loop.
-) Lots of tempo. With Thief, Clique, Venser, and Jace, you can realistically out-tempo the tempo deck if you survive your developmental turns intact.
-) Getting Sword of Fire and Ice online is particularly devastating here.

How you lose:
-) Delver bullshit hands.
-) Getting Hymned/triple Bolted/TNN'd out of the game.
-) Having your developmental turns really screwed with can sometimes put you far enough behind that they can close before you can recover, mostly due to the sheer strength of Goyf.

Shardless BUG:

Seriously, you're their worst nightmare. Veterans and Strixes stabilize the game while you develop, while the threat of Notions and ConSphinx looms large. Deed is as good vs them as it is in any other version. If you untap with Future Sight, you'll bury them in cards. Sword of Fire and Ice is also rather strong here. Postboard you gain Haunting Echoes, which will exile approximately 2/3 of their deck on average. Kiora is also quite good here.

How you win:
-) Play Magic.

How you lose:
-) I have no idea.

Elves:

This is a hilariously awkward matchup for both decks. Game one you'll probably die, but if you manage to string together enough disruption and ramp and if they stumble at all, you can stabilize. Notion Thief is oddly fantastic against them, as shutting down Glimpse and Visionary is pretty huge. Glen Elendra stops Green Sun's and Natural Orders effectively. Sword of Fire and Ice can help shoot down elves one-by-one in a stalled board state.

Postboard you gain a pair of Deluges and a Golgari Charm to help out with the sweeper duty, along with more generic combo hate. If you're feeling adorable you can also side in the Bribery to take one of their Hoofs (or possibly Progenitus). While none of this makes Elves a favored matchup, you're a little less colossally screwed here than most versions are.

How you win:
-) Hit enough disruption to stall the board state, and then draw into things that stop you from dying. From there, try to clock them as best as you can.
-) Chain together multiple sweepers postboard.

How you lose:
-) They rip your hand apart with Thoughtseize, taking your hate.
-) You don't draw the appropriate answers at the right times.
-) They just draw well.

Stoneblade/Deathblade:

Stoneblade is a peculiar matchup. Stoneblade is generally classified as a blue midrange deck, which makes this something of a mirror. All of the cards you would expect to be good here are -- Thief and ConSPhinx blowouts happen fairly regularly, and you can Clique away equipments in response to the Stoneforge trigger. You also gain the pair of Krosan Grips postboard, which helps ease the equipment problem, along with your Therapies.

At the same time, True-Name can be an issue...at the very least until Toxic Deluge comes in out of the board, and sometimes even with a Deluge. They can also just bury you in value with Snapcaster and removal/discard. That being said, all of the usual control-breaker tech applies. Survive their midgame aggression intact into the late game and you'll be fine.

How you win:
-) Thief blowouts.
-) Starving their resources and then slamming a control breaker.
-) Kill / discard all of their equipment to keep their utility creatures non-threatening.

How you lose:
-) Find all of your lategame cards too early and get them Thoughtseized out of your hand.
-) They get the perfect curve with discard into threats into protection. Depending on the threats and the protection in question, you can really struggle with their curve.

Sneak and Show: Show and Tell is very dangerous for them, as you have any number of things that they very much don't want to see. If Glen Elendra resolves, she's basically unbeatable for the opponent. Postboard you gain an array of nasty things, including Bribery, which they want nothing to do with.

Storm: You aren't in as much trouble as other versions are, since you at least have interaction. Glen Elendra is, again, an all-star -- and if you can set up Notion Thief in the early game while they're cantripping and trying to set up their kill, you can punish them very harshly. Still not favorable, but you at least have tools.

Reanimator: Oddly favorable. Baleful Strix is a pain in the ass for them, and, as with storm, you have a fair amount of interaction. They can't realistically move to the Show and Tell plan postboard, as well -- you only have one angle to worry about, and while it's still definitely a hard matchup, I believe us to be (albeit slightly) favored.

Death and Taxes: Tricks. You need to know tricks. Venser and Mimeoplasm are very powerful here, since you can take a lot of unexpected lines. Revoker is public enemy #1, and if you can solve him, you probably win because Deed is just so unbelievably strong in this matchup. Postboard you gain a couple more sweepers (ones that can't be revoked, at that). Favored.

GBx Midrange (Junk and Jund): The grind is real. These decks don't really have a lot of card advantage, so Notion Thief isn't that great here -- although ConSphinx is still fine, and your cards are on average better than theirs, so cold Mikokoroing is acceptable. Future Sight is your plan here, with Frost Titan and ConSphinx doing overtime. If you can keep their Deathrites under control, Mimeoplasm will serve you very well, too.

Sultai Superfriends

David McDarby's latest list (3/29/14):

1 Baleful Strix
4 Veteran Explorer

4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Karn Liberated
3 Liliana of the Veil

1 Forest
2 Island
3 Swamp
2 Bayou
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs

4 Pernicious Deed
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
1 Ponder

Sideboard:
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Notion Thief
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Negate
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique

Finishes:
David McDarby - 7-1 or better at SCG Invitational - 3/29/14
Miscellaneous SCG Open top 64s, small event finishes

Summary:
This version is, so far, unique to David McDarby -- an SCG columnist who to my knowledge is unaware of the Source. Despite this, he has put up some pretty solid finishes with the deck, and he's made very few changes as per his articles over the last few months on it, which would suggest that he's fairly happy with where it's at and considers it mostly a finished product. Note that I disagree with this assessment.

That being said, I question how much of an effect the printing of Council's Judgment has had on this list in particular. Regardless, people have been attempting to build superfriends-style lists with the Nic Fit shell for quite a while now, and his is the first to see any real semblance of success.

This version is all-in on its planeswalkers. It is 100% reliant on Jace and Karn to actually finish the game. That being said, it's also very good at enabling these two to carry the game. It plays more removal and discard than basically any other version, and that's not counting that Karn and Jace can also serve as removal engines if the game state so requires.

Strengths:
-) Good luck to any creature deck thinking that it's going to get through that.

Weaknesses:
-) Very unpolished decklist in my opinion, as McDarby is the sole voice in the wilderness working on it.
-) Solely reliant on its planeswalkers to win the game, with no plan B. This leads to an enormously slow clock when it comes to actually winning games, especially vs combo.
-) Lots of deckslots taken up by relative do-nothings like Gitaxian Probe.

Matchups:

TBD

Sultai Pod

Zachary Schulz's latest list (8/2/14):

Creatures [23]
1 Eternal Witness
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Grave Titan
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thragtusk
1 Trinket Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer

Instants [4]
4 Brainstorm

Sorceries [4]
4 Cabal Therapy

Enchantments [3]
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Pernicious Deed

Artifacts [5]
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
3 Birthing Pod

Lands [21]
1 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs

SB::
4 Force of Will
2 Envelop
2 Riptide Pilferer
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Carpet of Flowers

Finishes:
Leo Maros - 8th - Knightware GPT DC - 10/13/13
David Gleicher - 6th - SCG Open Milwaukee - 10/13/13
David Gleicher - 13th - SCG Open Indianapolis - 10/27/13
Ruben Martinez - 4th - 5 torneo Team-o - 12/7/13
Michael Rusch - 3rd - MKM Legacy / Nurnberg - 12/14/13
David Gleicher - 10th - SCG Open Indianapolis - 1/5/14
Sveinung Noding - 10th - Grand Prix Paris - 2/16/14
Federico Benini - 5th - IMT SuperSide / Milano - 2/22/14
Vuolo Umberto - 4th - Kingdom Legacy 6 - 3/2/14
Russo Manfredi - 2nd - Kingdom Legacy 6 - 3/2/14
Sean Thielman - 1st - ChicagoFinal Legacy Open - 3/16/14
Kyle Weaver - 12th - Tales of Adventure 40 Duals - 3/30/14
Vuolo Umberto - 8th - Kingdom Legacy 7 - 3/30/14
Niccolo Stopponi - 6th - T1.5T#9 / Scandicci - 4/13/14
Federico Benini - 7th - FRLL#8 - 4/13/14
Philipp Dinnus - 2nd - Trader-Liga Legacy - 4/13/14
Mineri Claudio - 1st - Raffa Olympus #4 - 5/4/14
Niccolo Stopponi - 7th - AZMagicPlayers.com Legacy Series - 5/31/14
Zachary Schulz - 14th - Tales of Adventure Eternal Extravaganza - 8/2/14

Summary:
As the name implies, Sultai Pod is focused entirely around Birthing Pod and the abuse thereof. Among its other accomplishments, this version has achieved a 10th place finish at a Grand Prix, which is something that none of the other versions can boast of. This version was pretty much unknown until David Gleicher had back-to-back high placing SCG finishes, and then it kind of took off from there. While not incredibly popular, it has put up a respectable number and quality of finishes since its creation, and it has continued to perform through 2014 -- which thusfar has been a rough year for Nic Fit.

The deck operates basically by just valuing the opponent out. It has various hateful creatures along the Pod chain, along with potent threats and finishers. It also gets to run a Trinket Mage to Pod up, which enables it to take up fewer deck slots with redundant Sensei's Divining Tops.

Notably, BUG Pod gets to run Brainstorm, although the number of Brainstorms is a question that has yet to be answered. Some prefer the full set, whereas some only run it as a 3of or even a 2of.

Unlike most other Nic Fits, BUG Pod stands to gain a lot moving forward, as every green, blue, or black creature yet to be printed may have a place in this deck. It's much harder for new toys to find slots in other versions -- but Pod's raw power and selection is pretty much unrivaled at this point.

Strengths:
-) An online Birthing Pod is absolutely monstrous against most of the format.
-) Toolboxes within the toolbox enables redundant flexibility even when Pod isn't online.
-) Good mix of hateful, disruptive creatures and powerful threats.
-) Blue-colored Nic Fit means that strong anti-combo measures like Force of Will and Flusterstorm are available postboard.
-) Highly customizable for any given metagame.

Weaknesses:
-) Pod deck. Sometimes Pod won't be online, and even with the extra toolboxes, the deck is notably worse without its namesake.
-) Pod deck. All of your "spells" need to be creatures in order to take advantage of Birthing Pod. This can limit deck construction harshly because there are only so many playable "spell creatures" in existence.
-) Harder to play than the average Nic Fit list (which is already fairly hard).
-) Very difficult to build correctly. I firmly believe that we have yet to see the best version of this deck, just because of the sheer number of possibly viable pod chains and things that it can do.

Matchups:

This section was written by GtF -- thanks!

Miracles:

This is slightly unfavorable. Though counterbalance is not at its best against BUG pod's varying mana costs, it is still solid. Additionally, ramping them into a quick Jace is a great way to lose. Veteran Explorer, Deathrite Shaman, and

Baleful Strix are not good at pressuring a Jace. They have Swords to Plowshares to break up pod chains. This is one of the matchups where veteran explorer is a liability - the fact is they can make better use of the mana than BUG Pod, activating tops, hardcasting force of wills and jaces, and miracling lots of angels.

How you win:
-) Try to ration your threats and hold something for a miracled terminus. However, also be mindful of the need to pressure a jace if they drop one.
-) Key cards to get going are Glen Elendra Archmage, Thragtusk, and Birthing Pod
-)A Trinket Mage package has started to find its way into pod decks partially for this matchup, as pithing needle is great against Jace and Top
-)Board out Veteran Explorers and Cabal Therapies for Envelops, also consider riptide pilferers to pressure them early and Force of Will to counter key cards.
-)In general, just try to be aggressive.

How you lose:
-) Early, unanswered CB/Top (turn 2 assembled) locks you out of your early game development.
-) A fast Jace going unanswered
-) A long grindy game where they get to activate top many times is also probably going to favor them.


Delver (RUG, BUG, UWR):

These are all quite favorable. Delver decks can't take advantage of veteran explorer's trigger at all. The rag-tag assortment of creatures are all designed to make the lives of opposing creatures hell, even without a Pod. Baleful strix is a nightmare card for a delver tempo deck to deal with. In UWR delver, batterskull can sometimes be scary, but a reclamation sage + cabal therapy to take it out of their hand is a play that can take care of that if you live long enough. Pernicious Deed is also a trump.

How you win:
-) Be as defensive as possible, preserve your life total, and let your late game bombs take over.
-) Therapy wisely. Sometimes stifle is the most important card to get rid of, sometimes force of will. Often it is just correct to hit brainstorm so your next therapy is good.
-) Pernicious Deed them


How you lose:
-) The usual way people lose to delver - get your lands destroyed to the point where daze and the like counter everything you can do.
-) Versions with red can sometimes burn you out after you've stabilized the board.

Shardless BUG:

This matchup is somewhat favorable. Shardless BUG players have been known to cast ancestral visions several times in a game and still lose. This is probably the match where the card Birthing Pod is at its best. Both are slow grindy decks but one has an engine and one just has good cards. Shardless BUG has to take the role of the aggro deck in this matchup to win.

How you win:
-) Get your mana together with explorer and stick and activate a Pod for several turns.
-) Bog down the game until you can get pod online. Reset with Deed as necessary. An early therapy naming Hymn to Tourach can be good, as if both players get to play their cards, pod is favored.

How you lose:
-) They destroy or discard your Pod
-) Active Deathrites on their side can be a problem, mainly due to disrupting persist creatures and Recurring Nightmare
-) A very early planeswalker can sometimes be a problem.
-) They resolve multiple Ancestrals, which allows them to rebuild right past your Deeds.


Elves:

This matchup is very poor. It seems like the pernicious deed deck should be favored, but they just attack from too many different angles. A skilled elves pilot can mitigate the effect of deed with careful play. They can kill early with Natural Order or grind the game out to a point where a hardcast Craterhoof Behemoth is a real possibility. Your expensive value creatures just really don't do enough, and the trio of one power early game creatures don't put any pressure on the Elves deck. On top of all that, giving them lands with Veteran Explorer is awful. Force of will is ineffective against elves because of their backup plan of grinding the game out with visionary/symbiote. Envelop however, is good.

How you win:
-) Kill their creatures early. Set up a lock against their late game bombs with Glen Elendra and more discard later. SB cards need to be cheap to be effective. Think Golgari Charm and Darkblast over more deeds or Engineered Plague.
-) Break up Wirewood Symbiote/Elvish Visionary combo so they can't redraw into gas after you break up their initial combo.
-) You can rarely establish complete control, so killing them once you've established at least partial control is definitely something to think about as well.

How you lose:
-) The usual fast Glimpse of Nature or Natural Order.
-) Being ground out by Visionary/Wirewood after dealing with the initial pressure. This lets them either beat down or combo off again.
-) They get ahead in cards with the odd visionary here or small glimpse there and manually beat down with an assortment of green creatures.
-) They make a Progenitus
-) The game drags out and they hardcast a Craterhoof Behemoth


Stoneblade/Deathblade:

This matchup is slightly favorable. It's a grindy affair but Pod is set up to grind slightly better. If they are playing deathblade it is better for pod since they will benefit less off of explorer triggers. The goal is to control their equipment and planeswalkers with cabal therapies. The rest of the cards they have are not too threatening. Pernicious Deed can mop up the assorted true-names and stoneforges.

How you win:
-) Therapy their good cards away and set up for Birthing Pod or Recurring Nightmare to take over.
-) Deed away their threats.
-) The trick of reclamation saging a batterskull and discarding it with therapy is still good here.

How you lose:
-) They get too far ahead with jitte counters and kill all your potential blockers/pod targets.
-) They out-card you with an active jace.
-) An answer for True-Name doesn't eventually show up.

Sneak and Show: The matchup is slightly favorable. Normally BUG Pod is bad against combo decks, but this particular one has a lot of somewhat random disadvantages. Show and Tell is a very dangerous card for them to play. Between Sower of Temptation, Shriekmaw, Trinket Mage for Needle, Needle itself, and Reclamation sage, this deck has more ways to blow out a show and tell than most. Putting in a pod and activating it to get phantasmal image is also another line to keep in mind. The card Sneak Attack is pretty scary, which is another great reason to include a trinket mage/pithing needle package. After boarding, all the disruption, including the riptide pilferers to pressure their hand, come in. If they are losing a card a turn, they will be unable to back up any attempts combo off.

How you win:
-) Therapy away their cards. Often naming brainstorm first is best, just so the second therapy can hit and they can't hide combo pieces away.
-) Stick a Glen Elendra Archmage. Then clone it if possible.
-) Randomly have a sweet card to put in if they go for Show and Tell.
-) Postboard - attack their hand with Riptide Pilferer and disrupt their attempts to combo with Force of Will, Cabal Therapy, and Envelop

How you lose:
-) Draw too many of your useless cards (Deed, Abrupt Decay, expensive pod targets)
-) Get quickly combo'd out.

Storm: Somewhat unfavorable. Unlike sneak and show, this combo deck is completely impervious to most of the pod creatures. In exchange, pernicious deed exists as an out to a quick empty the warrens, and deathrite shaman can make comboing off more difficult for them. Cabal Therapy remains important. The Pilferer/Force/Envelop package in the SB remains good, since storm relies heavily on having cards in hand and has no creatures to block. However, the deck can be quite fast, so surviving long enough is not a given.

How you win:
-) Snipe important cards with therapy
-) Establish Glen Elendra lock.

How you lose:
-) Have no answers to a fast combo, or have your answers discarded.

Reanimator: Slightly favorable. Having 4 maindeck Deathrite Shamans is obviously great here. These can buy you time to set up Glen Elendra or Scavenging Ooze. Use cabal therapy to live and then get these things online for winning.

How you win:
-) See above. Note: I think it may still be correct to bring in Riptide Pilferers even though they are reanimating. Post-board they are often on the Show and Tell plan, and it is another blue card that can be pitched to force of will. Once the creatures are in their graveyard, attacking is no longer a liability, so you can use your judgment on that.

How you lose:
-) Get reanimated or shown and told.

Death and Taxes: Somewhat favorable. Pernicious deed really shines here. Veteran explorer can give them lands but they usually don't have much to do with them. If the game goes long, pod and recurring nightmare can do some nice work. Thalia is probably the most annoying card, followed by aven mindcensor. Watch out for Cataclysm or Armageddon post-board and play around them if possible.

How you win:
-) Much the same as against delver decks, bog down the game with your controlling elements and take over with a late game bomb, deeding them somewhere along the way is nice too.

How you lose:
-) Much the same as delver, if they can keep you off mana with Thalia, wastelands, rishadan ports, or just rush you with lots of vialed in creatures, they can win the game that way. A quick jitte or batterskull can also be a problem.

GBx midrange (junk & jund): Slightly favorable? It kind of depends what is in the decks. Punishing Fire is a big problem card. Knight of the Reliquary seems like it could be rough as well. Dark depths combo is almost impossible to beat. Other than that, the rest of their cards probably don't stack up to the pod chain. A pile of tarmogoyfs is usually not hard to manage.

Any land-based deck (lands, cloudpost, aggro loam): These are all very bad matchups. There are not great ways to interact with lands in the creatures available in these colors. Loam also makes blowing up a single land somewhat pointless. The first step is to deal with loam via shamans and ooze, then deal with dark depths via pithing needle. Then you have to kill them before they find a way to deal with your answers. If you are lucky you could steal a win by snagging a merit lage with a sower of temptation, but it is unlikely. If they're playing cloudposts, you should probably just concede and go get lunch.

In general: It is sometimes right to wait a turn to sacrifice veteran explorer if they can use the lands immediately and you can't. It is also sometimes correct to board out veteran explorer if they just make better use of the lands than you do. This is the nice thing about having a Force of Will package and Baleful Strix - you can leave those in and still have a decent card to sacrifice to therapy as well as a card to pitch to force of will. Against many combo decks you board out many of the high end pod targets and some number of pods and become this weird janky lock piece control deck. It works a surprising amount of the time. The fact that the deck so often does this, and that it is so capable of winning without pod, has made me consider dropping the pods on more than one occasion and hybridizing the deck with the more planeswalker-oriented BUG deck. But that's a whole different topic...

VI. Secondary Variants:

Straight GB

Caleb Durward's Invitational List (12/11/11):
Creatures [17]
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wickerbough Elder
2 Eternal Witness
2 Grave Titan
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer

Instants [3]
1 Go for the Throat
2 Dismember

Sorceries [14]
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Enchantments [3]
3 Pernicious Deed

Planeswalkers [1]
1 Liliana of the Veil

Artifacts [2]
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands [21]
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Swamp
4 Bayou
4 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs

SB::
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Extirpate
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Damnation

Finishes:
Caleb Durward - 5th - SCG Invitational 2011 - 12/11/11
Bernd Fritsch - 4th - WPN Qualifier LegacyTurniers - 12/28/11
Robert Lippmann - 6th - WPN Qualifier Legacy Turniers - 2/25/12
Borja Ceberio - 3rd - 3 LLG 2012 - 3/11/12
Kabelis - 1st - Magic-League Legacy Trial - 8/15/12
Matt Bevilaqua - 4th - DHG November Buncha Duals - 11/10/12
Alessio Papi - KING 4 / Roma - 12/16/12
Kurt Madouse - 3rd - Philadelphia Legacy Series #3 - 8/31/13
Ivan Cominelli - 2nd - Olympus #2 / Raffa - 2/9/14
Ivan Cominelli - 8th - Olympus #5 / Moniga - 6/1/14

Summary:
This is pretty much what started it all. The original successful lists where straight green/black. While they've since fallen out of favor, they do put up some modest results still -- mostly in Europe at smaller events.

One of the biggest draws of this version was that you got to run Hymn to Tourach, which opened some incredibly strong opening lines where you could Therapy/Explorer/Therapy/Hymn to Tourach all by the end of your turn 2, essentially emptying the opponent's hand. Your mana was also so strong that you could run manlands (usually Treetop Villages), which synergize well with Primeval Titan.

The biggest struggle for GB Nic Fit was always ending the game. The deck had a lot more dead draws lategame than most other versions, and it had few actual wincons, relying on Green Sun's Zenith to tutor them up. Once it found a wincon, it did had the "Two Towers" engine to abuse -- using Phyrexian Tower and Volrath's Stronghold, you can simulate Recurring Nightmare's effect to keep recurring your threat. As the metagame has moved to Snapcaster+Swords to Plowshares decks, coupled with the advent of Council's Judgment, this style of deckbuilding is falling out of favor. Deathrite Shaman didn't do it any favors, either.

Abzan Pod

Paul Ewenstein's SCG Open List (5/6/12):

Creatures [19]
1 Academy Rector
1 Acidic Slime
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Bone Shredder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Grave Titan
1 Reveillark
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sun Titan
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Wickerbough Elder
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Strangleroot Geist
4 Veteran Explorer

Instants [2]
2 Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries [8]
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

Enchantments [4]
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Recurring Nightmare

Planeswalkers [2]
2 Liliana of the Veil

Artifacts [4]
2 Birthing Pod
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands [21]
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Swamp
3 Bayou
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath

SB::
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Choke
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Extirpate
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Maelstrom Pulse

Finishes:
Tomas Bilek - 5th - Czech Legacy Series - 1/14/12
Tomas Bilek - 2nd - Pohar cerneho rytire c.3 - 3/22/12
Alan Gerevini - 4th - PCLL#7 / Piacenza - 4/15/12
Jordi Roca Lacostena - II Torneo Liga Foro - 5/4/12
Paul Ewenstein - 2nd - SCG Open Providence 5/6/12

Summary:
While still able to be a thing, this deck combination has proven to be fairly unpopular -- surprising, given that it would be an easy jump for modern Melira Pod players. In 2012, it had a handful of major event finishes and a host of <32 player top8s -- but since 2012, it has basically disappeared from the hierarchy. I believe that this is primarily due to the relative popularity of the more rock-styled lists and the more junk-styled lists.

Still, white has some pretty impressive pod targets -- capable of making nice chains with Restoration Angel, and it gets a lot of randomly hateful creatures, like Orzhov Pontiff -- which wrecks Elves and Death and Taxes, or can pump your team for an alpha strike. There's lots of possibility here, in my opinion.

VII. Tertiary Variants:

These variations are mostly theoretical at this point, and have either never been fully developed or have very, very few results.

GB Scapeshift:

It has been theorized that a GB Scapeshift list could exist, using Ob Nixilis and other landfall cards. In addition, you could possibly combine this shell with a Cloudpost core. The biggest problem here, in my opinion, is how you untap the lands post-shift...you basically either have to somehow give Scapeshift flash, or run something like Amulet of Vigor or Candelabra of Tawnos.

GB Turbo:

Culling the Weak exists. A turn 1 Explorer into turn 2 Culling yields 7 mana on turn two: enough for a Therapy+Titan or GSZ->Titan sequence. The issue here is the lack of stability. This version would likely be very Belcherish -- when the stars align, it would be extremely deadly. However, the volatility of this shell likely scares everyone away from developing it.

GBx Doomsday:

A gentlemen by the name of Vacrix developed this initially: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27208-Veteran-Explorer-Doomsday -- a Veteran Storm deck. He's tried it with both an ANT shell and a Doomsday shell, but I haven't heard anything further on it for quite a while.

Jund Pod:

Birthing Pod has seen success in the other color combinations, but so far, Jund Pod has been relatively unexplored. There was some conversation on it in the old thread, but to my knowledge, it never went anywhere. Highlights include Olivia Voldaren, Flametongue Kavu, and Kiki-Jiki. You also gain the Redcap->Kiki+Conscripts infinite combo. There's probably something here.

Jund Genesis Wave:

The idea is to ramp up and drop consecutively larger Genesis Waves until the point at which they die. Between Eternal Witnesses to keep the Waves flowing and Sarkhan Vol to give all of your fleshly waved goodies haste, it wouldn't take much to actually kill with this. You'd probably eschew Deeds in favor of things like Burning-Tree Emissarys, and maybe run some combination of Cradles, Deserted Temples (Candelabras?), and Nykthoses...kind of a hybrid between Nic Fit and Mono-Green Devotion. Scapewish may just be a better version of this exact deck.

Abzan OmniRector:

This was a popular variant in the Netherlands, particularly, a few years ago. The idea was to max out on Rectors and Diabolic Intents, and fire off an Intent on a Rector to tutor Omniscience into play + Emrakul into your hand. You used Scroll Rack as a pseudo-Brainstorm to keep combo pieces out of your hand. This version is more of a historical anecdote than anything else -- I don't believe that this list could exist in today's metagame.

Sultai Gifts:

Every few months, a group of us get bored and try to make Gifts Ungiven work. Unfortunately, every few months, we fail. The closest that we've gotten at this point is to acknowledge that the deck needs to be primarily Reanimator-oriented with the option to value-gifts on the side. Putting something fat into play is really the only thing that's powerful enough for Gifts to do currently, as we do not have the equivalent of a Vault-Key-YawgWill-Snapcaster (Regrowth) pile in legacy.

Crack the Earth variants:

It's been theorized that Crack the Earth could function as a non-black enabler for Veteran Explorer, opening up straight Gruul lists as well as Temur and Naya. That said, no development has really been done on any of these, and it's very unclear as to whether there's even anything here.

The Menagerie:

This is something that I screw around with every once in a while. It's basically a 5-color Pod list...think Kiki-pod does Legacy. It's not good enough for big events, but it can be amusing to troll around with at your 12-person locals. It's worth mentioning, but only as a footnote.

[Arianrhod]

VIII. Coverage Matches:

Chris Higashi (Abzan Rock vs RUG Delver & Stoneblade) -- Rd 7 and Rd 8 of SCG Open Phoenix (4/15/12)
Rd 7: http://blip.tv/scglive/scgaz-leg-rd-7-chris-higashi-vs-benjamin-brueseke-6096615
Rd 8: http://blip.tv/scglive/scgaz-leg-rd-8-phil-renaud-vs-chris-higashi-6096748

Bruce Mills (Abzan Rock vs Hive Mind) -- Quarterfinals of SCG Open Birmingham (4/22/12)
http://blip.tv/scglive/scgal-lgc-top-8-david-maddox-vs-bruce-mills-6111223

Paul Ewenstein (Abzan Pod vs RUG Delver, Goblins, AggroLoam) -- Quarters/Semis/Finals of SCG Open Providence (5/6/12)
Quarters: http://blip.tv/scglive/scgri-leg-quarterfinals-chris-pelletier-vs-paul-ewenstein-6136815
Semis: http://blip.tv/scglive/scgri-leg-semifinals-paul-ewenstein-vs-nicholas-patnode-1-6137404
Finals: http://blip.tv/scglive/scgri-leg-finals-david-rice-vs-paul-ewenstein-6136718

Steve Thompson (Rector vs BUG Delver) -- Rd 6 of SCG Open Providence (10/14/12)
http://blip.tv/scglive/scg-prov-lgc-rnd-6-ryan-phramer-vs-steven-thompson-6402089

Juan Miguel Carrascosa (Scapewish vs RUG Delver) -- Finals of Mishra's Factory Open (11/17/12)
Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVZjajy96y4
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEIrg7yqekQ

Kevin McKee (Scapewish vs Mono-blue Nivmagus) -- Rd 6 of SCG Columbus (1/6/13)
http://blip.tv/scglive/scgcol-leg-rd6-kevin-mckee-vs-reese-gunn-6496269

Tim Wilson (Punishing Fit vs Reanimator) -- Quarterfinals of SCG Open Kansas (3/24/13)
http://blip.tv/scglive/scgkc-leg-quarterfinals-devin-koepke-vs-tim-wilson-6558983

David Gleicher (BUG Pod vs Shardless BUG and BUG Delver) Rd 3 & Rd 5 of SCG Milwaukee (10/13/13)
Rd 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AITzKpdassY
Rd 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_RZmriarss

David Gleicher (BUG Pod vs BUG Control) -- Rd 5 of SCG Open Indianapolis (1/5/14)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ4_7arwBpI

David McDarby (Veteran Planeswalkers vs Death and Taxes) -- Rd 5 of SCG Knoxville (5/11/14)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvBuGXGcMw4

[Arianrhod]

Alright. Formatting has been applied now, since it didn't copy/paste over from my Evernote.

People who specialize in the versions that are missing information, send me the appropriate sections and I'll fill them in. I can't speak to some of these matchups / strengths / weaknesses / etc.

Again, if anyone knows where to find more coverage footage of Nic Fit being played in events, let me know and I'll add it to the list. There should be some old features of mine from Jupiter laying around somewhere, as well as some of Kyle Weaver's from Tales of Adventure (I think I have 2 from there as well). I need to try to find them -- they might've just been eaten by Twitch, not sure.

And if I missed anything over the course of this, I apologize. This has been an absolutely exhausting experience and I hope I don't have to repeat it -- should just be able to update it periodically and be fine.

[Qweerios]

I think Pod variants of Nic Fit are a whole different animal. For starters, Pod decks are aggro decks with disruptive elements at the core while traditional Nic Fit is a dedicated control deck in all of its iterations. You can see this difference when you observe the amount creatures with lower mana costs vs. the amount of non-creature spells present in each respective deck.

Secondly, they don't use Deed quite as effectively and some versions are even better without. Pod has no incentive to blow a Deed on their own Arbor, DRS, Strix, SFM/Jitte, or reset their Pod Chain in order to deal with a single Nemesis. The main strength of Deed in today's legacy is its versatility and its main piece of synergy with Nic Fit resides in its ability to generate lots of mana quickly in order to be able to abuse an instant speed board wipe into a devastating Planeswalker (Lily, Jace, Garruk, etc.) or board breaking creature.

Lastly and most importantly, Explorer does not represent the same thing for each deck. In a traditional Nic Fit list, an Explorer trigger is an essential component of the deck's success. This is why the better lists play 4 Explorer and 4 GSZ to maximize the chances of this crucial trigger even though the 2nd Explorer trigger has diminishing returns and the 3rd and 4th are mostly cluster and dead weight. In a Pod deck however, Explorers are treated as added value and are not as crucial of a component to the deck's success. Pod decks have more ramp tools, a lower curve, and is overall more proactive as it doesn't need to wait for an Explorer to be available in order to use a Therapy effectively. My most recent and successful Pod lists have dropped down to 2 Explorers because the trigger is only desired when a Therapy or a Pod activation is available in the early game.

Aside from that, great work on the primer Kevin. You were always the most dedicated to this deck and I am glad to see you reiterate its history for the future Nic Fitters. I may not share your optimism on the deck's future success but I do share your enthusiasm about the spicy brews to come.

[Ralf]

And if I missed anything over the course of this, I apologize. This has been an absolutely exhausting experience and I hope I don't have to repeat it -- should just be able to update it periodically and be fine.

Amazing job !

Thanks a lot.

Ps: My name is actually Romain Van Den Daelen (in the Scapeshift "Finishes" part).

[Arianrhod]

Amazing job !

Thanks a lot.

Ps: My name is actually Romain Van Den Daelen (in the Scapeshift "Finishes" part).

Fixed =) I'm not sure if I made a typo, or if it was wrong on TCDecks (from where I pulled the data).

[Ralf]

Fixed =) I'm not sure if I made a typo, or if it was wrong on TCDecks (from where I pulled the data).

Wrong on TCDecks.

[HoneyT]

Great job with the new primer Kevin!

As for missing footage, I was also on camera in the swiss, I believe round 4 of SCG KC 2013 (1 slightly embarrassing missplay aside it's not awful to watch)

Also I'll get to work on the PFire section for you.

[jbone2016]

I'll see what I can do as far matchups for the Wish Fit.

I really don't think we need have the video coverage from my match against Sam black.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

The new primer is awesome and I can't believe you put that much work into it, thanks Kevin.

Just to add something here this is what I've been running lately when I play nic fit at my local shop. I think that it's based off of a list Qweerios posted in the old thread with plenty of influence from Jbone.

Boring Stoneforge Nic Fit

Maindeck:
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed

2 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Karakas
2 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
1 Duress
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Golgari Charm
3 Thalia, Gaurdian of Thraben
2 Council's Judgement
1 Krosan Grip
1 Toxic Deluge

Summary:
This version sacrifices some of nic fit's controlling late-game power for less exotic legacy staples that quickly pressure the opponent. From my experience it hasn't strayed very far from the other variants matchup-wise. It's felt well positioned versus delver variants and burn for the normal reasons, while being ok against elves post board.

It's miracles match-up is the worst problem and the only real option is to voltron-up Thrun or Sigarda and hope to fade a terminus. This list is eagerly waiting for siege rhino and being able to grab a life loss trigger off of a zenith in these colors will be awesome vs. miracles in particular. Another weakness of this version is the shardless match-up due to the more anemic top-end power. It's not horrible but the deck doesn't quickly jump ahead of shardless power-wise like a lot of other versions can.

The upside to this power shift is that the deck can interact a little faster in my combo-infested local meta with some early pressure cards like thoughtseize, stoneforge, and goyf. This is backed up by Thalia, more discard, surgicals, and another Teeg in the board for a decently disruptive presence in combo match-ups. I have to regularly play against ANT and high tide so this package has felt great so far.

[GtF]

Wow, quite an impressive compendium of information. I'll try and put something together for the BUG pod matchups guide.

[Ralf]

The new primer is awesome and I can't believe you put that much work into it, thanks Kevin.

Just to add something here this is what I've been running lately when I play nic fit at my local shop. I think that it's based off of a list Qweerios posted in the old thread with plenty of influence from Jbone.

Boring Stoneforge Nic Fit

Maindeck:
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed

2 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Karakas
2 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
1 Duress
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Golgari Charm
3 Thalia, Gaurdian of Thraben
2 Council's Judgement
1 Krosan Grip
1 Toxic Deluge

Summary:
This version sacrifices some of nic fit's controlling late-game power for less exotic legacy staples that quickly pressure the opponent. From my experience it hasn't strayed very far from the other variants matchup-wise. It's felt well positioned versus delver variants and burn for the normal reasons, while being ok against elves post board.

It's miracles match-up is the worst problem and the only real option is to voltron-up Thrun or Sigarda and hope to fade a terminus. This list is eagerly waiting for siege rhino and being able to grab a life loss trigger off of a zenith in these colors will be awesome vs. miracles in particular. Another weakness of this version is the shardless match-up due to the more anemic top-end power. It's not horrible but the deck doesn't quickly jump ahead of shardless power-wise like a lot of other versions can.

The upside to this power shift is that the deck can interact a little faster in my combo-infested local meta with some early pressure cards like thoughtseize, stoneforge, and goyf. This is backed up by Thalia, more discard, surgicals, and another Teeg in the board for a decently disruptive presence in combo match-ups. I have to regularly play against ANT and high tide so this package has felt great so far.

Wow, I like this list a lot actually. Thanks for sharing.

[Bobmans]

I am not sure if it is explored already, but i was thinking about a Living Wish package for Punishing Fit. Going to 10-12 maindeck creatures (including Veteran Explorer) and have like 4-5 wish targets. Possible targets:

Magus of the Moon
Flametongue Kavu
Inferno Titan
Sire of Insanity
Stormbreath Dragon

This way we could ditch some of the creatures that where not to exciting about like Huntmaster and Broodmate Dragon for some other juice stuff. Also i really like the idea of a tutorable Moon effect with all those lands/12post/greedy blue wedge manabases out there.

The idea is going down to 3 GSZ, have 3 Living Wish. Still keep 4 SDT, 4 Therapy and 1 flex slot for Maelstrom Pulse or Diabolic Edict and still have 3 offs of the goodstuff: Liliana, AD, Deeds, PFire and with 10-12 creatures. Normal Manabase.

While not restricted to green creatures being able to have to be GSZ'd this might actually solve the issue this deck has at closing out game being not threat heavy enough. Thoughts?

Edit: Have been digging up some other options (while some or perhaps most of them are far fetched):

Bojuka Bog
Phyrexian Revoker
Yixlid Jailer
Vexing Shusher
Master of Cruelties
Blazing Specter
Massacre Wurm
Mogis, God of Slaughter
Lodestone Golem
Zo-Zu the Punisher
Mindclaw Shaman
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Balefire Dragon
Bogardan Hellkite
Utvara Hellkite
Lord of the Void
Platinum Angel

[TomTwice]

Here's my GBu Superfriends list that I got 13th with at one of the recent GP Sydney Legacy side events (81 people)

Maindeck:
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Coiling Oracle
2 Baleful Strix
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Grave Titan

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Diabolic Intent

4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse

3 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold


Sideboard:
4 Force of Will
2 Negate
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Extirpate
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience



Went 4-1-2, drawing to MUD and Punishing Jund (both were such slow players) and losing to Fish 1-2 thanks to one game where I never hit a black source after keeping an Explorer-Brainstorm-Tropical Island-Therapy-Deed hand.

Sideboard seems a bit stacked towards grave hate but that's because the deck has no real interaction with graveyard decks other than a lucky opening Ooze.

Sideboarding is great. It's either the 2 Abrupt Decays in or 13 out, 13 in :D

[Arianrhod]

Alright, primer has been updated. Much thanks to GtF and HoneyT for their additions! I ended up having to kick the BUG varieties down a post because the 2nd post (with all of the decklists and matchups) was too big. Everything's fine there, just a space consideration.

---------------

Report time:

I played my BUG Control list at KDM's 40 Duals event on Saturday.

First of all, I wanted to preface things by stating immediately and upfront that I had an AWFUL start to the day. Here's why: my Mimeoplasm is altered. Nothing too fancy, although I'm very fond of it (it's my EDH general). I had a notable alterist do it, not some random, and it's basically just a border extension +: I literally just told the guy that I want him snow-covered. So the alterist extended the border, made it all snowy looking, and piled up some snow drifts on poor Mim's head, and voila. I've used it before and never had a problem, but I still wanted to check with the head judge and verify that there would be no problems.

Well he hemmed and hawed and was very unsure overall, so he ended up saying that I should try to find another one to be safe. While he was flipping through my deck finding things to compare it to, he also decided that one of my foil Glen Elendra Archmages was a little too warped and should also be replaced. Now, this is all well and good to say, but trying to find these cards on site was a literal goddamn nightmare. I checked all of the vendors, and nobody had either card. Eli Kassis (the TO...name may be familiar to some of you, as he used to run Jupiter) tacked on an announcement like 15 minutes before the event started that if anyone had either of those cards that someone could borrow, it would be much appreciated. Naturally the entire room burst out laughing, which absolutely mortified me. I mean, much props to Eli for trying, but the room's reaction did not help my mental state. Mythic located a Mimeoplasm for me, but I was still up shit creek for a Glen Elendra.

My driver had cards that he needed to pick up at Jupiter anyway, so he basically grabbed me in a mad rush to make it to Jupiter and back before the event started, because I could buy a Glen there. Well, the GPS ends up fucking up and taking us to their tournament center as opposed to their storefront, so we panic and abort, heading back to the venue. We rush in and discover that the player meeting (which was also pairings for round 1) had begun. Luckily, my friend Jacob had located me a Glen Elendra to borrow from one of his carmates from Rochester. I scrambled to my seat, made the swap, and sat down with a "legal" deck.

Eli wandered by later once we were playing and informed me that he tried to plea for my character, and they would have allowed me to use my altered Mimeoplasm, but that he couldn't sway them on the Glen. Of course this is after I'd gone through at least 5 heart attacks, but, again, props to Eli for trying his damnedest to help out in a bad situation.

So yeah. Before this event even started I was ferociously tilting. I tried to put it out of my head as best as I could and just focus on the games, but it was rough going early.......

Rd 1: Jund

My opponent informs me that he's borrowing his deck and that it is entirely foreign. He mulls to 5, and leads with a Bloodstained Mire, fetching a basic Swamp, and passes. I Therapy him, calling Reanimate because I figure that's the worst case scenario, and he shows me a hand of jund lands and a Sylvan Library. Library proceeds to take over the game while I flood way the fuck out. To my opponent's credit, he correctly identified that his life total wasn't under immediate duress, and the Library quickly undid his mulligan at the cost of a bunch of life.

The next game saw basically the opposite thing happen, as this time it was my opponent's turn to flood like a madman. We were quickly on to game 3.

My opponent misplayed harshly in game three. He came out pretty quick, and dropped me to 7 in short order. He had a Lily out that was being annoying, and I ripped Garruk Apex off the top. I slammed it down, +1-destroy-target-planeswalker-ed, and passed. He untaps with me at 7, with Bolt + Punishing Fire + DRS active. instead, he opts to play a Tarmogoyf...a 7/8 Goyf, and passes the turn. I happily kill it with Garruk and gain 8, ensuring that the matches ended in a draw (my opponent wasn't really slow, per se, but he was very...methodical).

Nothing like the good ole 0-0-1 start.

Rd2: TES

My opponent is whining about reanimator as we sit down, which tells me that he's likely playing a combo deck of some kind. I have a Therapy-Explorer-Clique hand, with a Deed in tow, so I'm feeling fine about this. I don't remember the sequence of Therapies, but I basically shred his hand (although I have to sac my Clique to a 2nd drawn Therapy because I didn't feel safe). Eventually I have a board with a Jace ticking up and a ConSphinx in play. He has to Brainstorm to try to go off, which lets me draw 6. The best he can do is Wish for Past in Flames and try to set up for next turn. I play a Glen Elendra, and that's that. Beat TES game 1. Feels good.

We both mull to 5, and engage in a hilarious cripple fight that each of us makes worse for the other with discard. Like, this game was just silly. He Probes me and sees a Flusterstorm at one point, so I expend it on a Brainstorm the next turn to try to keep him in the hole. I untap and decide to gamble -- he knows (obv) that I just used my Flusterstorm, and he has perfect information on me except for the card that I drew for my turn. I could either hold it up and bluff more interaction, or I could tap out for the Glen Elendra and demand that he kill me that turn or never again. He accepts the challenge, and has triple LED into Infernal Tutor. He gets Ad Naus, and goes to 2 on the back of an Empty the Warrens flip. Storm is well past lethal, but he doesn't have a way to get to Tendrils. He contemplates casting Empty (which loses him the game, as Glen flies over for lethal), and decides that he can do a hail mary brainstorm first. He draws his 3, and shows me that his third card drawn was the 4th LED, with like half-to-two/thirds of his deck still in his deck. Rough beats are rough.

Game three I tear his hand to absolute shreds again, and I have a Notion Thief to stop him from cantripping out of it. I try to find some more solid disruption, but fail, and he eventually goes off, although I made him work very hard for it. After the match, my friend Timur points out that I had a mental derp and had placed a Cabal Therapy in the exile zone when it was actually still in my graveyard, which would've let me flashback off of my Explorer to net some mana + another therapy hit + a shuffle for my Top. The card I would've taken would have actually stopped him from comboing that turn, which would have allowed me to win (I would've had the mana for Haunting Echoes next turn, and he needed PiF to win). Oops.

0-1-1. About what I expected for my day based on how it started.

Rd3: Shardless Bant

My opponent and I sat next to each other round 2, and he was basically terrified of me. I stand by that this deck laughs at Shardless of any variety. I don't remember exactly what happened in either of these games, but I know that I both crushed him and that it did wonders for my mental state, because I got to have like infinite fun with Future Sight and other awesome cards. Game two, Garruk Relentless completely took over by himself.

1-1-1.

Rd4: Deathblade

Nom nom nom.

Game one I get to untap with Future Sight. He cannot possibly recover, and I drown him in cards after 3 Pernicious Deeds run him completely out of gas (Witness and Diabolic Intent were involved).

Game two I kill his True-Name Nemesis with a Deluge@1, and then Zenith up Mimeoplasm to make a 5/3 True-Name (imprinting his Snapcaster). He can't answer it, and scoops up.

2-1-1.

Rd5: UW Delver

This guy had drawn with one of my carmates a round or two previous, and I knew what he was on going in -- UW Delver with Geists and Snapcasters but no Stoneforges. The first game he just tears me a new asshole while I stumble on lands (helped by him, to be fair).

Games two and three play out exactly the same way -- I introduce him to the fact that my deck does, in fact, have removal. Mikokoro shined really hard in this matchup. He was unwilling to Wasteland it, since it was giving him cards too -- but the cards it was giving me were just leagues ahead of his. He was another very deliberate player, and I'm 100% sure that if not for Mikokoro, this match would have drawn as well.

3-1-1. Suddenly I realize that despite my awful start to the day, I'm actually doing pretty good and am still live for top 8 if I win out, or am at least locked for top 16.

Rd6: BG Loampox w/Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage

I once again had advanced info on this match, since he drew with my driver (playing 12post) earlier in the day.

Game one he did his loampox thing and I couldn't find any meaningful interaction (read: Venser). I had both Glen Elendras, which he had to dispose of before making Merit Lage, but he didn't have any particular problems doing so.

Game two I resolve a very fast Future Sight (turn 3 I think), and I proceed to live off the top of my deck for the rest of the game despite never having a hand via Raven's Crime. I eventually find and resolve Haunting Echoes, with strips out everything but 4 nonland cards in his deck. He naturally rips the 1-of Thespian's Stage off the top to go with the Dark Depths that he already had in play. I calmly draw my card for the turn and play the Jace that was hiding underneath (which I knew was there from Top). With a Glen in play running defense, he can't make a Merit Lage since he doesn't have Loams in his deck anymore. He tries to go for a half-assed Mishra's Factory plan, but I'm able to defeat it with ease, and I Jace him out.

Game three we've very cramped for time, but we're both playing pretty quickly. My opponent plays to his Factory+Spirit beatdown plan again, to try to close the match. I once again outmuscle his Factories, and Frost Titan does a great job finishing the game by keeping his Maze of Ith tapped down.

4-1-1.

Rd7: Reanimator

There were 4 13-points at this point, and as it ended up, none of us actually had a chance at making it in. We didn't know that at the time, though, so we were all playing in a win-and-in scenario. I knew what all of the other 13s were playing, and my heart sank a bit when I saw that I was paired vs Reanimator.

Game one I mull to 4 looking for interaction, and fail to find any. I do make his life a little miserable with a Baleful Strix, which he at first Forces and then realizes that his reanimation spell is Exhume, oops. He assembles Grisel+Elesh, and I die.

Game two I mull to 5, and I'm thinking that I'm basically out of it. Strix once again does a good job of holding him off, but I'm frozen on 3 lands, with 2 Explorers, a Strix, and a Top in play. I cast a Deed, and hope that I get another turn. He casts Show and Tell with a Griselbrand already in play, angling for more board state. I put a Glen Elendra in, and he opts to exile it with the Ashen Rider that he puts in. He passes the turn, and I draw the Bribery off the top that I knew was there. I then activate Top's draw, holding priority and Deeding for 1. This sets off the Explorers, giving me much needed lands, and a random card postshuffle. I'm hoping to hit Flusterstorm so that I have protection for my Bribery, but either way the random card is better than what was on top of my deck. I get my lands, he cuts me, and my blind draw is Flusterstorm.

The run goods.

I Bribery him, which resolves without needing the protection, and I take his last remaining Griselbrand. I'm at 13, with a board of Strix+Griselbrand vs Griselbrand+Ashen Rider. I opt to draw 7, which makes my land drop and allows me to pass turn with a full grip. Of relevant note: I have Mimeoplasm in my hand. By this point I've attracted quite a large crowd, and I hear a lot of s******ing behind me -- everyone on my side of the table knows what's going to happen next turn, and not a single one of them can wait.

He swings with his Ashen Rider, which I happily nom with my Griselbrand. He exiles my Griselbrand with the death trigger, which leaves me with Strix vs Grisel -- the timeless struggle. He draws 7, and puts himself to 1. He doesn't find more board presence, but he does find protection. Fortunately for me, I have a Therapy. I name Force of Will, and hit two. I then Zenith for an Explorer, to flash it back -- which he Brainstorms in response. I'm perfectly fine with this, as I'm just trying to ramp storm count for my Flusterstorm. I brick my flashback, which I expect since I named Force of Will again just to be safe, and note the Echoing Truth his hand. Luckily, Flusterstorm is a hard counter now. I cast The Mimeoplasm, taking his Ashen Rider with an imprint of Griselbrand, making a 12/12 Ashen Rider. The trigger eats his Griselbrand, and Strix Field-of-Dreams-es into the End Zone for the victory.

The timer goes to 00:00 as we finish game 2, and after a brief chat I agree to scoop him up since his breakers were slightly better than mine going in and because if he did skate in at 8th place, he would be playing vs Infect, which is almost a bye for Reanimator. He was a pretty chill guy and I just did some pretty unspeakable things to him, so I figured that I'd get something for my troubles regardless of if he made it in or just got top 16. Sure enough, he tracked me down afterward and informed me that he only made 10th, and gave me a 20 (he took cash instead of the dual for top 16), which was pretty classy.

Official ending 4-2-1, actual ending 4-1-2.

-------------

Deck thoughts:

The Jund matchup may be a problem going forward. Their card advantage exists on a different axis than the blue decks that my list is designed to fight, which makes it kind of hard. ConSphinx is fine if you can get to it with a dork to protect from Liliana, but Notion Thief is useless. Future Sight is insane, but they bring in Red Blasts which can kill it (or the Sphinx). Some of that matchup was definitely my mental state working against me, and some of it was kind of subpar draws, but even still, that matchup still did not feel like I was favored.

Combo feels pretty fine, and with a few slight tweaks I think I can make it even better. The fact that I was able to do the things that I did to Reanimator despite mulling to 4 and 5 for both games is incredibly promising for that matchup. It still doesn't feel "safe," but I'm not sure that that is a matchup that will ever feel safe.

Shardless is still a joke of a deck for my list, even when it's based in different colors.

The deck has a slight problem actually winning. It almost always has control of the game, and my Deathblade opponent in particular (who was a very vocal and animated fellow, tons of fun to play against) complained multiple times that I "just don't run out of card advantage," but it struggles with actually slamming the door. Frost Titan is pretty good at that, and Mimeo can be fantastic, but I think that I need a little bit more oomph somewhere, somehow-- awkward since I feel like my curve is already kind of high.

Haunting Echoes was fantastic. I boarded it in multiple times, and I would have been happy to draw it at pretty much any point. It definitely gets the sideboard MVP award. I never played against Miracles, so I sadly did not get to employ my super secret tech of Nephalia Drownyard. Oh well -- always next time.

I'll post an updated list at some point possibly later today. I need to think a bit on it and where I want to go next with it.

[Zirath]

The deck has a slight problem actually winning. It almost always has control of the game, and my Deathblade opponent in particular (who was a very vocal and animated fellow, tons of fun to play against) complained multiple times that I "just don't run out of card advantage," but it struggles with actually slamming the door. Frost Titan is pretty good at that, and Mimeo can be fantastic, but I think that I need a little bit more oomph somewhere, somehow-- awkward since I feel like my curve is already kind of high.

I think this a statement I exactly made when we talked about the BUG lists previously. That has be the eternal problem of the BUG lists; they don't end the game. It very difficult to do because they do not have alternate/unanswerable victory paths the way Junk and Jund do. This is probably why the BUG Pod deck has done well.

Is there a way for you to end a game in the air with things like Cliques? If you can get some sort of tempo advantage then you can translate that into a win. This is where a Planeswalker or Creeping Tar Pit becomes significant because of Deed.

[Arianrhod]

I think this a statement I exactly made when we talked about the BUG lists previously. That has be the eternal problem of the BUG lists; they don't end the game. It very difficult to do because they do not have alternate/unanswerable victory paths the way Junk and Jund do. This is probably why the BUG Pod deck has done well.

Is there a way for you to end a game in the air with things like Cliques? If you can get some sort of tempo advantage then you can translate that into a win. This is where a Planeswalker or Creeping Tar Pit becomes significant because of Deed.

I tried putting a Sword of Fire and Ice in my deck to assist with the "I have a ton of utility fliers, let's do something with them" plan, but it was pretty awful all day. I almost want to try going back to an ollllllld favorite in the form of Simic Sky Swallower. While it costs a million mana, it's nearly impossible to deal with, and I discovered that I was making land drops with stupid regularity with this list, so it's possible.

My guess is that I'm going to try to find room to squeeze in a pair of Garruk Relentless manideck, though. Wolfblossoming might just be what the doctor ordered -- and if Relentless flips, Veil-Cursed is probably one of the best cards for Nic Fit ever. The problem is putting in the effort to flip it -- but in this list, Relentless might just be good enough in and of itself, with Veil-Cursed being gravy.

[Mapson]

Great job on this primer Kevin. I completely want to try the culling the weak version you mentioned everyone is too scared to do. It sounds amazing. I don't necessarily mean good amazing but like an absolute blast. I already have some ideas floating in my head but do you have any more advice on where to start?

[Arianrhod]

Great job on this primer Kevin. I completely want to try the culling the weak version you mentioned everyone is too scared to do. It sounds amazing. I don't necessarily mean good amazing but like an absolute blast. I already have some ideas floating in my head but do you have any more advice on where to start?

Definitely things that net X-for-1 advantages. If you're exploding to that extent, you're spending a lot of cards to do it. A Primeval Titan is definitely a good start (since you can Zenith for Primeval on t2 or just flat cast him on t2 with Therapy backup). If you want to go full ham, you could run a Depths/Stage to get with it, representing a potential turn 3 Merit Lage -> turn 4 kill. I would rather get two 'actual lands' with varying amounts of utility, though, because that would help recoup the cards that you spent and really slingshot you ahead to where you can just cast other things (t1 land + t2 land + 2 explorer lands + 2 titan lands + t3 land drop = 7 lands on turn 3).

I'd specifically look for B or G creatures (or BG) that have strong CiP triggers. I know Liliana's Specter exists, but if there's something else with an actual Mind Rot stapled to it, that would be considerable. The black Exarch is reasonable to consider -- either Duresses or raise deads Veteran Explorer when it CiP. I feel like Redcap is a little too low impact, but it would also be "okay."

Alternatively you can be a complete troll and run something like Death Cloud =)

[MrIggins]

I wouldn't try to play fair with that engine- there's a very all-in storm deck that exists with it, which i think is likely stronger than the nic fit deck that tries to be more explosive by playing Culling- more consistent perhaps, though I would never apply the word "consistent" to Veteran Explorer storm. Adding more dead late-game draws to your deck whose nut draw is "only" a turn 3-4 Marit Lage attack doesn't sound good to me; I'd rather just play that turbo-depths list that was floating around the SCG circuit a few months ago. The storm deck has a sweet sideboard plan of morphing into a deck that turbos out Demigods of Revenge and Phyrexian Obliterators against storm hate though, so that's cool.

I'm still here and still trying to play nic fit, trying to settle on a variant I like for the upcoming GP if I can- the shift in the blue decks that Kevin has been discussing has made Scapewish an unattractive option for me, so I'm going to try his BUG list and see what changes can be made to help it close out games. It's definitely sweet and looks like the deck that attracted me to the archetype in the first place. I might tinker around with some BG fit if that doesn't work for me.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Quick question: Would any of ya recommend the following package in a Junk Fit list?:

3 Mangara of Corondor
2 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold

The main gist is to assemble a board lock by recurring Mangara with either The Two Towers or Karakas. However, I have doubts about its effectiveness without Aether Vial.

[Surfkatt]

Hello Friends,

I haven’t really posted here before but I figured since nobody has been posting about their Scapewish testing I might as well. My store has weekly Legacy tournaments that last week I started going to and there was an IQ yesterday. I figured I would give a quick rundown of the games and the list and see what ya think. I don’t really take detailed notes so this is all from memory, forgive the shortness. First here’s the list I ran at the local event:

2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Primeval Titan
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Wood Elves
Creatures [15]
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Scapeshift
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Spells [22]
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Verdant Catacombs
Lands [24]
SIDEBOARD
1 Gaze of Granite
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
1 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Scapeshift
3 Slaughter Games
3 Thoughtseize


Pretty Standard. I wanted some more interaction so I have the 2 decay’s main and they have been fantastic, but we will get to that.

Weekly Event:
Round 1 Mono red Painter:
G1: I should not have won this game at all BUT I had prior knowledge and a Cabal therapy/Explorer hand on the play so I did. I T1 Cabal Painters servant and he reveals Painter, REB, REB, Pyroblast, Tomb, Tomb, Mountain. Gotcha! Next turn I get both REB’s off an explorer and Combo him a few turns later.
G2:. Turn 1 painter, I play a forest and pass, he spirit Guides and REB’s forest. Combo’s 2 turns later.
G3. I strip his hand of a painter and 2 chandra’s while ramping. He plays Koth for preasure, revoker on Deed, and then Blood moon. Turn before I die I decay his moon and wish for a lethal shift.

1-0

Round 2 Werewolf Stompy:
I honestly don’t remember much of these 2 games. I play basics and without a turn one chalice on the play we established he really can’t win. We played a couple just for fun games after and including the 2 games I won in the tourney I was 5-0 versus with very few games being even close (they were fun though).

2-0

Round 3 R/u Delver (Burn focused)
G1: He does not have a T1 creature and I start ramping with Sakura and wood elves as he throws bolts at me. He hits a guide but it was a little to late. I therapy his force and pierce and shift him.
G2: This time he has a Delver and a guide early. I end up wiping them with a deed but not before I hit the ever so nice 3 life. I GSZ for tusk and he bolts me with the trigger on the stack.
G3: He has a guide again but my tribe elder takes a hit and my huntmaster and token trade for the guide and a bolt. He applys more preasure with a delver and another guide but my Ooze and 2nd huntmaster prove to be too much.

3-0

I was very happy with the list and with 1 minor change to the main I was pumped to play in the IQ.
-1 Scavenging Ooze
+1 Huntmaster (Card is just too good)

SCG IQ
Round 1 Death and taxes
G1: He wins the roll and leads with plains, I have a bayou into explorer. He plays a plains into thalia. Now that I am 100% sure he is on D&T I play a forest and therapy Mindcensor. He show me Mindcensor (ding!), crusader, Flicker, revoker, plains. He untaps and slams crusader. I flashback therapy on revoker (sacing explorer) and play a top with fetch up. He peels a Stoneforge and slams down a Sword of F&I. I spin top into Thragtusk and draw it. I then play a sakura tribe elder. He suits up his crusader and swing for lethal (crusader is nuts) but I have a decay for the sword. He plays revoker forcing me to crack elder and spin top. I find a wish with a land in hand and shift him.
G2: He goes plains into mom. I have an explorer. He then plays Rest in peace, ouch. I slowly ramp with wood elves and decay the RIP while blocking with explorer as he established 2 revokers (1 on top and the other on deed), a thalia, and a stoneforge (which gets batterskull. With nothing but batterskull in hand I wish for massacre and eventually draw another wish for scapeshift.

1-0

Round 2: RUG delver
Nothing particularly exciting happened in these games. I played around stifle and sniped his blue cards for force both games. Unless Rug has a bunch of goyf’s/wastes/stifles I don’t really see us losing.

2-0

Round 3 Shardless Bant
G1: He kept a triple brainstorm hand with 1 island and a bunch of good cards. He did not see another land till turn 4 and I therapyed his force.
G2: I stripped his threats with therapy and eventually we both were topdecking. He peeled top and agent into foundry. I drew pernicious deed. He accidently stacked his triggers wrong and sacked his top to foundry. A few lands later I hit a wish into scapeshift.

An interesting side note, he was friends with the guy who “invented the deck” Kevin McKee so he knew the matchup pretty well.

3-0

Round 4 4 color delver
DRAW

I did not have to draw this round, I could have played for placement but I was hungry and he was a friend. We play for fun a decent bit and he is terrified of the matchup. It is pretty hard for him.

Round 5 4 color Punishing Maverick
DRAW into Top 8

Again, could have played but no need. Played some EDH and cheered for friends.

Top Eight
3rd place

Quarterfinals UW/r Miracles 3rd versus 6th
G1: He spends the first 2 turns brainstorming, I curve Sakura into wish, Which he lets resolve, and fetch slaughter games. I slaughter his force thinking I can force a quick scapeshift through and he uses that time to force a Jace through. He brainstorms till he has counterspell in hand with counterbalance on board with top. He also Cliques me. I super die.
G2: I tear his hand apart and slaughter on Jace. He slams blood moon to stall when I only have a forest and a bunch of duels. Unfortunately he only has an Island and is unable to beat my huntmaster.
G3: On the draw I curve Sakura into Slaughter on Jace Slaughter on Entreat. Felt good to lock the Miracles deck out of the game. He is left with snapcasters and cliques as win conditions. After like 15 turns of me drawing threats and him drawing counters (no joke he drew 3 forces in a row as I drew 3 threats, it was really fun) I eventually Scapeshift him.


We decided to split the money and packs and the 2 people who could go to the invi would play for the invite. Given that all the matches in the top four were scary (U/R delver, U/G Infect, 4 color Maverick with dark depths) I was happy with the split.
Overall I loved the deck. It was a BLAST to play. Having a way to just instantly close the game in scapeshift is just wonderful. After the event and watching the SCG the one change I would make is to fit some Sudden Shocks in the side. They are really good versus infect and all the creature decks. I would probs do –1 REB -1 Gaze +2 Sudden shocks to make the final list look like:

3 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Wood Elves
1 Scavenging Ooze
Creatures [15]
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Scapeshift
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Spells [22]
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Verdant Catacombs
Lands [24]
SIDEBOARD
2 Sudden Shock
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
2 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
1 Scapeshift
3 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
1 Gaze of Granite

Let me know your comments and suggestions!

[starchild]

Awesome primer Kevin! :)

I really would like to play Nic Fit and a GBW control version. I play in a semi-competive environment, all kinds of decks are represented in the Aggro, Control and Combo categories (more than 30 different decks). Any help will be highly appreciated.

The Thunian Fit I found very appealing, but as you say, it has some problems in the metagame today and are not recommended. When KTK is released, how to you see the Siege Rhino in this deck. How many and what will it replace? Also what other changes would you suggest to it, other than changing two Pithing Needle in the SB for two Phyrexian Revoker? Many thanks in advance!

Thunian Fit (nee Rector)

Arianrhod's latest list (9/10/14):

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Selvala, Explorer Returned
1 Eternal Witness
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
2 Spike Feeder
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Academy Rector
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Spike Weaver
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Council's Judgment
1 Toxic Deluge

2 Abrupt Decay

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Whip of Erebos

3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Gavony Township

sb::
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Tsunami
2 Baneslayer Angel
2 Pithing Needle

[XdeckX]

Its about time I dropped a line in here. Been too long.
First off excellent primer Kevin.

I havent had much time to play Legacy tournaments the last couple of months due to personal obligations. I do however play allot using Cockatrice. Not that that's really worth mentioning since Cockatrice has the same problem MWS used to have: bad opponents.
And even then I've played allot of different non NicFit decks.
The only NicFit I've been messing around with it's McDarby's Superfriends list. Not that its particularly good but its just loads of fun to play. I saw him play a similar list on a SCG stream somewhere and afterwards he wrote an article. Just loved that!

Of course I've tweaked the list to my personal liking cutting a Jace (since I own only 3 if I even want to play the list IRL) and adding Kiora.
Right now I'm running 3 jace, 3 liliana, 2 kiora, 2 karn. Kiora is really good at stalling and insane whenever you get to ultimate her. Getting there however is really challenging. And perhaps Karn need to replaced by the new Garruk.
I've replaced the Probes with SDT and Baleful Strix.

Overall it's a great list if you face fair decks all day. It struggles against combo (but that goes for most NicFit decks) but the SB is just filled to the rim with combohate.

RIght now I'm dying to try Kevins new BUG list (I refuse to call it Sultai...)

[Arianrhod]

@Starchild:

This is where I'm at for post-Khans Thune:

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selvala, Explorer Returned
1 Eternal Witness
2 Spike Feeder
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Siege Rhino
1 Spike Weaver
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Council's Judgment

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Abzan Charm

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare

3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower

(no sb pending meta shifts)

Siege Rhino is ridiculous. Whether it's in 3-of territory remains to be seen. I do think that Abzan Charm is a card that a lot of people are sleeping on in general, but it's particular suited to this deck. It exiles Delvers, Goyfs, and everything beyond, while also acting as either a combat trick OR a Spike trick to put on counters at instant speed (note that Spike Feeder can turn Abzan Charm into a 4-point lifegain). Furthermore, situations where you don't want either of these modes, it's still a Night's Whisper.

While I don't consider it necessarily better than CJ or Decay, I do think that it will occupy a proud 2-of slot moving forward.

Rectors are simply not good enough anymore most of the time. If we get a fixed (enchantment) YawgBargain or something similarly busted, I may revisit her...but until then, that whole package is coming out.

This means Varolz gets ditched. While the Varolz + Sigarda synergy was pretty real, Abzan Charm fills this role almost as well. Without Rector, I don't think it's worth running the Zenithable sac outlet.

ScavOoze is a card I ferociously hate, but I can't deny the synergy that it has with Thune itself or the random matches that you'll win just by having it in your deck. With the full 4 Zeniths, in particular, I think Ooze probably does justify its slot, no matter how much I'm aggravated by that decision.

Gavony Township isn't good enough without Primeval, which got cut a while ago. Its slot is currently a Marsh Flats, but I could be persuaded into almost any -color producing- utility land. Gavony being colorless periodically shot me in the foot, and I want to avoid a colorless solution.

Anafenza is on my short list for a slot. It is possible without the Rectors that Courser isn't good enough on its own, but I'm going to test with Courser still present, because that card is prettttttttty real. That said, I do want to at least try an Anafenza: she's good graveyard hate, she's very fat for 3 mana, and she offers more Spike / Sigarda synergy. If she doesn't work out and/or if Rhino is as nuts as I think it is, I will consider using this slot for a 3rd Rhino.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that with the advent of the Rhino, I've been debating cutting Thragtusk. While Thrag gains 2 additional life and also leaves behind a 3/3 on his way out, the Rhino is overall just a better card. It matches up much better vs Goyf and TNN, and it actively clocks them while simultaneously gaining you 1 turn's worth of life while ALSO being 1-mana cheaper.

I don't know what I would put in this slot. Maybe I'd just go really deep in the tank and run the full playset of Rhinos. I'm pretty horny for that card.

....I think I'll close with that pun. My job here is done.

[Ralf]

This means Varolz gets ditched. While the Varolz + Sigarda synergy was pretty real, Abzan Charm fills this role almost as well. Without Rector, I don't think it's worth running the Zenithable sac outlet.

ScavOoze is a card I ferociously hate, but I can't deny the synergy that it has with Thune itself or the random matches that you'll win just by having it in your deck. With the full 4 Zeniths, in particular, I think Ooze probably does justify its slot, no matter how much I'm aggravated by that decision.

Anafenza is on my short list for a slot. It is possible without the Rectors that Courser isn't good enough on its own, but I'm going to test with Courser still present, because that card is prettttttttty real. That said, I do want to at least try an Anafenza: she's good graveyard hate, she's very fat for 3 mana, and she offers more Spike / Sigarda synergy. If she doesn't work out and/or if Rhino is as nuts as I think it is, I will consider using this slot for a 3rd Rhino.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that with the advent of the Rhino, I've been debating cutting Thragtusk. While Thrag gains 2 additional life and also leaves behind a 3/3 on his way out, the Rhino is overall just a better card. It matches up much better vs Goyf and TNN, and it actively clocks them while simultaneously gaining you 1 turn's worth of life while ALSO being 1-mana cheaper.

I don't know what I would put in this slot. Maybe I'd just go really deep in the tank and run the full playset of Rhinos. I'm pretty horny for that card.

....I think I'll close with that pun. My job here is done.

/Barn for
1) Scavenging ooze
2) I thought I was the only one to actually think Anafenza could have some potential
3) Rhino is f.cking real. Pretty impressed by the guy so far in testing.
4) Gavony was/is cute.

[starchild]

@Starchild:

This is where I'm at for post-Khans Thune:

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selvala, Explorer Returned
1 Eternal Witness
2 Spike Feeder
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Siege Rhino
1 Spike Weaver
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Council's Judgment

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Abzan Charm

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare

3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower

(no sb pending meta shifts)

Siege Rhino is ridiculous. Whether it's in 3-of territory remains to be seen. I do think that Abzan Charm is a card that a lot of people are sleeping on in general, but it's particular suited to this deck. It exiles Delvers, Goyfs, and everything beyond, while also acting as either a combat trick OR a Spike trick to put on counters at instant speed (note that Spike Feeder can turn Abzan Charm into a 4-point lifegain). Furthermore, situations where you don't want either of these modes, it's still a Night's Whisper.

While I don't consider it necessarily better than CJ or Decay, I do think that it will occupy a proud 2-of slot moving forward.

Rectors are simply not good enough anymore most of the time. If we get a fixed (enchantment) YawgBargain or something similarly busted, I may revisit her...but until then, that whole package is coming out.

This means Varolz gets ditched. While the Varolz + Sigarda synergy was pretty real, Abzan Charm fills this role almost as well. Without Rector, I don't think it's worth running the Zenithable sac outlet.

ScavOoze is a card I ferociously hate, but I can't deny the synergy that it has with Thune itself or the random matches that you'll win just by having it in your deck. With the full 4 Zeniths, in particular, I think Ooze probably does justify its slot, no matter how much I'm aggravated by that decision.

Gavony Township isn't good enough without Primeval, which got cut a while ago. Its slot is currently a Marsh Flats, but I could be persuaded into almost any -color producing- utility land. Gavony being colorless periodically shot me in the foot, and I want to avoid a colorless solution.

Anafenza is on my short list for a slot. It is possible without the Rectors that Courser isn't good enough on its own, but I'm going to test with Courser still present, because that card is prettttttttty real. That said, I do want to at least try an Anafenza: she's good graveyard hate, she's very fat for 3 mana, and she offers more Spike / Sigarda synergy. If she doesn't work out and/or if Rhino is as nuts as I think it is, I will consider using this slot for a 3rd Rhino.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that with the advent of the Rhino, I've been debating cutting Thragtusk. While Thrag gains 2 additional life and also leaves behind a 3/3 on his way out, the Rhino is overall just a better card. It matches up much better vs Goyf and TNN, and it actively clocks them while simultaneously gaining you 1 turn's worth of life while ALSO being 1-mana cheaper.

I don't know what I would put in this slot. Maybe I'd just go really deep in the tank and run the full playset of Rhinos. I'm pretty horny for that card.

....I think I'll close with that pun. My job here is done.Thank a lot! Awesome feedback :) Me to has high hopes for the Rhino...multiples ;) Anafenza, I hope she turn out to be worth a slot too. Look forward to see what this deck turns out to be after KTK is released.

[HoneyT]

Welcome to the Ooze Fan Club Kevin! :tongue: we've been waiting.

Also, agreed, rhino has been very strong in testing thus far in my Pod list. It's almost worth running Abzan colors solely on the back of Rhino's power level.

[Megadeus]

Rhino seems awesome. Does anyone run restoration angel in their list? I could see a list with more ETB effects and like 3 angels with a couple of rhinos being fairly sweet.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I'm not exactly sold on Rhino, but that's mostly because I feel Swagtusk is still one of the best anti-control cards available to use while still being usable in the tempo matchup (combo, as always, is a nightmare).

Also, I've been testing the following list on cockatrice. So far I've played against Rock with Hymns and a hybrid of MUD and UR Painter (by that I mean it had a stompy manabase, ran Chalices, EE, Blood Moon, Force of Will, and Wurmcoil Engine) that for some reason had Tinker main deck. The former I lost pretty badly too after being hellbent from Liliana and Hymns, but the second one I lost one game, won the next thanks to Mangara lock and proper sequencing.

61 Main
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Eternal Witness
3 Mangara of Corondor
2 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Council's Judgment
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Karakas

10 Side
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Karakas

[Ralf]

I'm not exactly sold on Rhino, but that's mostly because I feel Swagtusk is still one of the best anti-control cards available to use while still being usable in the tempo matchup (combo, as always, is a nightmare).

Also, I've been testing the following list on cockatrice. So far I've played against Rock with Hymns and a hybrid of MUD and UR Painter (by that I mean it had a stompy manabase, ran Chalices, EE, Blood Moon, Force of Will, and Wurmcoil Engine) that for some reason had Tinker main deck. The former I lost pretty badly too after being hellbent from Liliana and Hymns, but the second one I lost one game, won the next thanks to Mangara lock and proper sequencing.

61 Main
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Eternal Witness
3 Mangara of Corondor
2 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Council's Judgment
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Karakas

10 Side
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Karakas

I have already suggested Mangara in an abzan wish version.
Unfortunately I wouldn't go THAT deep on the guy itself.
Don't get me wrong, he is nice and all but I feel that you lose a lot of its power from not having access to vial.
This guy shines with vial, he is just good otherwise.

Anyway, as I always encourage innovations here are a few comments you may consider:

1) I would play Gaddock MD. Why ?
Gaddock is like scavenging ooze in certain MU. If you live long enough (T3 with GSZ), he is a hard lock that wins the first game for you as affected combo decks usually have no answers to him pre board (e.g ANT). Priceless.

2) Primeval/Mangara/Karakas
You should also play a 1-of Knight of the Reliquary. Cheaper than Primeval when going for the GSZ route, it also speeds up by a lot your lock engine.

3) Sylvan safekeeper
I know, we are not maverick but Mangara without vial demands protection. Combined with other creatures (such as Teeg) it provides you other lock engine (GG vs miracle when you have Teeg + him on the field)

4) Replace Tusk by Rhino.
25 games (Delver decks, miracles, Jund, DGA) so far with him on my side. Kevin must have done about the same, even (maybe) more. Here are my first conclusions:
- Better than Tusk in fair games. It comes down sooner and "instant" Rhino's life gap (6) > Tusk (5). Tusk (8 life gains if I use Kevin's life computation) is better if you have to tank 2 turns.
- Equals/better than tusk in control MU. That was my main concern as I was afraid that the missing LBT (leave the battlefield trigger) could be a huge issue. For now, it is not and I'm rather glad of its "take 3 to the dome".
- Cheaper. Actually, this is the real deal, here. We play legacy and 4 mana is nowhere near 5. I saved my arses a bunch of time because I could actually cast him where I would have died with not being able to play Tusk.

Well 25 games is kind of low. Only time will tell.

5) Linvala
Like Teeg, she is a must. I even think that Abzan Fit list should always at least play 1.

6) Cut DRS.
Your deck is not designed to win as fast as an abzan SFM based list. DRS is never useless but in your list, I feel like he is lacking.

I hope this will give you food !!!

Happy testing.

[MD.Ghost]

If some Rhinos are the real deal for GBW Nic Fit now, we can also troll against Liliana/Hymn Decks (BUG; Jund; Pox etc.) with 2 Wilt-Leaf Liege as a Sideboard-Tech for more "Ups i win" moments. :wink:

For me i will still play with 1 Tusk to curve out and have one more Option against Miracle.

I played only Punishing, BUG-Pod and a little bit Scapeshift, how good is GBW (Junk/Abzan) against Miracle? My only hope here is slam a bomb every turn and disrupt with discard/decay/deed if possible.

I like Arianrhods Test Build, with some minor changes here and there:

+1 Abrupt Decay
-1 Abzan Charm
Maybe wrong, because i like flexible charms and i also used Jund Charm in a Punishing shell in the good old days. Otherwise Decay is also very flexible and sometimes it matters that it cost only 2 mana and/or you need only 2 colors and sometimes you will/must destroy something against a hand of counters.

+1 Gaddock Teeg
-Selvala, Explorer Returned
As Ralf mentioned: with GBW i want at least one out against Combo G1 - and with Karakas/Therapy/Tower you can get rid of Teeg if he blocks Zenith (or Walkers).

Unsure about Spike Weaver - never testet him - cause i never played GBW Builds. Maybe it is a slot for Garruk Relentless, or Linvala as Ralf mentioned, or something else. What i like on paper is, that Weaver can buy some turns, if you face a deadly situation like Griselbanned, Entreat-Army or a 20/20-Land-Token :wink: .

[Ralf]

Unsure about Spike Weaver - never testet him - cause i never played GBW Builds. Maybe it is a slot for Garruk Relentless, or Linvala as Ralf mentioned, or something else. What i like on paper is, that Weaver can buy some turns, if you face a deadly situation like Griselbanned, Entreat-Army or a 20/20-Land-Token :wink: .

Against Elves, weaver could also be nice but it is very "slow" (I have tested him in the past).
Abzan Fit is, unfortunately, weak to Miracle. Tusk won't be the big deal. But a mangara lock on white mana will win you many games (or either Teeg + Sylvan as I suggested)

[Firepaw3]

Hello Friends,

I haven’t really posted here before but I figured since nobody has been posting about their Scapewish testing I might as well. My store has weekly Legacy tournaments that last week I started going to and there was an IQ yesterday. I figured I would give a quick rundown of the games and the list and see what ya think. I don’t really take detailed notes so this is all from memory, forgive the shortness. First here’s the list I ran at the local event:

2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Primeval Titan
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Wood Elves
Creatures [15]
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Scapeshift
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Spells [22]
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Verdant Catacombs
Lands [24]
SIDEBOARD
1 Gaze of Granite
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
1 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Scapeshift
3 Slaughter Games
3 Thoughtseize




How has your miracles matchup been with that configuration? how often did you find yourself wishing for gaze over wanting a toxic deluge?

[Arianrhod]

If some Rhinos are the real deal for GBW Nic Fit now, we can also troll against Liliana/Hymn Decks (BUG; Jund; Pox etc.) with 2 Wilt-Leaf Liege as a Sideboard-Tech for more "Ups i win" moments. :wink:

For me i will still play with 1 Tusk to curve out and have one more Option against Miracle.

I played only Punishing, BUG-Pod and a little bit Scapeshift, how good is GBW (Junk/Abzan) against Miracle? My only hope here is slam a bomb every turn and disrupt with discard/decay/deed if possible.

I like Arianrhods Test Build, with some minor changes here and there:

+1 Abrupt Decay
-1 Abzan Charm
Maybe wrong, because i like flexible charms and i also used Jund Charm in a Punishing shell in the good old days. Otherwise Decay is also very flexible and sometimes it matters that it cost only 2 mana and/or you need only 2 colors and sometimes you will/must destroy something against a hand of counters.

+1 Gaddock Teeg
-Selvala, Explorer Returned
As Ralf mentioned: with GBW i want at least one out against Combo G1 - and with Karakas/Therapy/Tower you can get rid of Teeg if he blocks Zenith (or Walkers).

Unsure about Spike Weaver - never testet him - cause i never played GBW Builds. Maybe it is a slot for Garruk Relentless, or Linvala as Ralf mentioned, or something else. What i like on paper is, that Weaver can buy some turns, if you face a deadly situation like Griselbanned, Entreat-Army or a 20/20-Land-Token :wink: .

The third Decay over the 2nd Charm might be correct (especially since it opens a sideboard slot). I'm still going to test for a while with the 2nd Charm, though, because the combat trick mode is surprisingly relevant to this deck. It tricks, accelerates your clock, and protects your combo from removal on the Spike.

I wouldn't touch Selvala. I can respect putting Teeg in the list somewhere, although I disagree with it. But Selvala is not the slot.

The problem with Teeg is that most of our knock-out punches are 4 or more mana. I have lost games vs combo because I have a Teeg in play and couldn't cast Tsunami/Nether Void/etc. Hell, I've lost games -game one- against combo when I have Teeg in play because I flood out on Zeniths and can't get any additional clock into play, which gives them all the time in the world to answer Teeg.

It could be that it would be better to just move all of the combo hate to lower cmc things and and just play the junk style of vs combo where you have some cheap disruption and some bears and you hope that they don't get there. I dunno.

Weaver is hilariously relevant. I did not think that he was going to be as nuts as he is. He's won me games vs reanimator by stalling long enough for me to Deed his Griselbrand. Let that sink in for a moment. While he is likely weaker without the Gavony + Varolz (although he does have Charms to feed him now if need be), his utility is still insane -- and, at a 3/3, he's not the smallest creature in the deck. Sometimes you just need a hill giant.

--------

I'm strongly considering going back to Thune for the Grand Prix. Thune is very good against random decks and budget decks like Burn that you can reasonably expect to play there. While it does suffer vs Miracles somewhat and it doesn't have BUG's virtual bye against Shardless decks, it does gain percentage points vs Jund which BUG has been struggling with, as well as the aforementioned burn and random.dec. Scape is probably actually in a fairly good position for a Grand Prix metagame, too, although I would be hesitant about playing it in a 40duals or similar.

Nic Fit has been called a metagame predator many times in the past. While I disagree with the assessment that all Nic Fit varieties must NECESSARILY be metagame predators, I do agree that the BUG list that I've been working on lately is one. It ruthlessly smashes Shardless, is favored against Miracles, has the usual Nic Fit matchup vs Delver, and it has to fucking -work- for anything else. That isn't to say that it can't beat other things...but I would be highly skeptical of taking it into a Grand Prix room. Starcity would probably be fine if you can escape the first couple of rounds unharmed, but you're just playing roulette with the pairings.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I have already suggested Mangara in an abzan wish version.
Unfortunately I wouldn't go THAT deep on the guy itself.
Don't get me wrong, he is nice and all but I feel that you lose a lot of its power from not having access to vial.
This guy shines with vial, he is just good otherwise.

Anyway, as I always encourage innovations here are a few comments you may consider:

1) I would play Gaddock MD. Why ?
Gaddock is like scavenging ooze in certain MU. If you live long enough (T3 with GSZ), he is a hard lock that wins the first game for you as affected combo decks usually have no answers to him pre board (e.g ANT). Priceless.

2) Primeval/Mangara/Karakas
You should also play a 1-of Knight of the Reliquary. Cheaper than Primeval when going for the GSZ route, it also speeds up by a lot your lock engine.

3) Sylvan safekeeper
I know, we are not maverick but Mangara without vial demands protection. Combined with other creatures (such as Teeg) it provides you other lock engine (GG vs miracle when you have Teeg + him on the field)

4) Replace Tusk by Rhino.
25 games (Delver decks, miracles, Jund, DGA) so far with him on my side. Kevin must have done about the same, even (maybe) more. Here are my first conclusions:
- Better than Tusk in fair games. It comes down sooner and "instant" Rhino's life gap (6) > Tusk (5). Tusk (8 life gains if I use Kevin's life computation) is better if you have to tank 2 turns.
- Equals/better than tusk in control MU. That was my main concern as I was afraid that the missing LBT (leave the battlefield trigger) could be a huge issue. For now, it is not and I'm rather glad of its "take 3 to the dome".
- Cheaper. Actually, this is the real deal, here. We play legacy and 4 mana is nowhere near 5. I saved my arses a bunch of time because I could actually cast him where I would have died with not being able to play Tusk.

Well 25 games is kind of low. Only time will tell.

5) Linvala
Like Teeg, she is a must. I even think that Abzan Fit list should always at least play 1.

6) Cut DRS.
Your deck is not designed to win as fast as an abzan SFM based list. DRS is never useless but in your list, I feel like he is lacking.

I hope this will give you food !!!

Happy testing.

It has: thanks ^_^

I should say that I'm hesitant on cutting DRS, if only because otherwise I have no way to grind out games against a hellbent ensnaring bridge or multiple Maze of Iths. In fact, it's actually came into play at a SCG Open round 1 vs. Mono-B Pox. Could probably go down to 2 though, especially since I'll be putting in a Sylvan Safekeeper to protect them and others.

Concerning Rhino: to be honest, I'm considering Obstinate Baloth instead of either. It's the same CMC as Rhino, nets yourself 1 life more than Rhino yet 1 life less than Swag (to use Arianrhod's earlier notes on Scuttling Doom Engine v Kokusho, if Rhino dealt damage instead of siphoning life, I'd be more inclined to use it), and it acts as insurance against Lililiana's +1 and other non-specific discard spells (which our cards are only better if we get to use them). Though, I have to say the 4/5 body with Trample looks sweet.

I like Knight, but I have reservations about adding it with DRS and Sylvan Safekeeper.

I considered adding Teeg main, but from I've seen, it's been more of a detriment in the fair matchups than a boon in the combo/Miracles matchup. Then again, I was pairing him up with triple Thalia, Guardian of Thraben MD, so I suppose that would explain it :P.

Linvala ... I'm not gonna lie, I honestly confused her with Selvala from Conspiracy. That Angel is really damn good, especially against Death and Taxes.

[Surfkatt]

How has your miracles matchup been with that configuration? how often did you find yourself wishing for gaze over wanting a toxic deluge?

I honestly didn't get to a position where I needed to gaze/deluge. I slaughter gamed his entreat's before he could cast them haha. I feel like Gaze can be really good in the matchup though. It can kill a jace, counterbalance and is a 3 mana answer to angels. Where it really shined was versus Painter and Shardless bant. Against Painter it took out a Koth, a blood moon, a welder and a grindstone. I was essentially dead but wish into gaze did what another card could not. Against bant I took out his meek/thopter combo along with all the tokens and an agent.

[Zirath]

Hi Folks, after avoiding this for the last few months, I'm testing the BUG Pod list that has become somewhat popular outside of the US. Here is the list I'm currently trying:

1 Eternal Witness
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Grave Titan
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thragtusk
1 Trinket Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer

4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Pernicious Deed

1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Birthing Pod

1 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs

I played a few games yesterday and I found Sower of Temptation and Trinket Mage very subpar. Even if I had Explosives (which I then have to cut a card), I wasn't super happy with it in general. I also found myself heavily leaning on Deed in a lot of situations. I am thinking swapping Sower for Venser (and moving her the board) but I am not sure what to replace the Trinket Mage and Top with. I like the toolbox options but I think it's too slow. It does lean itself to options with Birthing Pod and the ability to go grab a 0 or 1 drop to Pod with, but that seems too cute. Last, is Grave Titan really the best option at 6 for us? I was thinking if there is an "I win" combo in these colors and it doesn't seem like there is an easy one (excluding Melira, which is too slow I think).

My therapies were relatively okay and I think that was a big part of my games.

Does anyone have any notes they have about the deck they can share? I was pretty happy with it in general but I need to tune the specific cards a little more.

[Ralf]

It has: thanks ^_^

I should say that I'm hesitant on cutting DRS, if only because otherwise I have no way to grind out games against a hellbent ensnaring bridge or multiple Maze of Iths. In fact, it's actually came into play at a SCG Open round 1 vs. Mono-B Pox. Could probably go down to 2 though, especially since I'll be putting in a Sylvan Safekeeper to protect them and others.

Concerning Rhino: to be honest, I'm considering Obstinate Baloth instead of either. It's the same CMC as Rhino, nets yourself 1 life more than Rhino yet 1 life less than Swag (to use Arianrhod's earlier notes on Scuttling Doom Engine v Kokusho, if Rhino dealt damage instead of siphoning life, I'd be more inclined to use it), and it acts as insurance against Lililiana's +1 and other non-specific discard spells (which our cards are only better if we get to use them). Though, I have to say the 4/5 body with Trample looks sweet.

I like Knight, but I have reservations about adding it with DRS and Sylvan Safekeeper.

I considered adding Teeg main, but from I've seen, it's been more of a detriment in the fair matchups than a boon in the combo/Miracles matchup. Then again, I was pairing him up with triple Thalia, Guardian of Thraben MD, so I suppose that would explain it :P.

Linvala ... I'm not gonna lie, I honestly confused her with Selvala from Conspiracy. That Angel is really damn good, especially against Death and Taxes.

Well, actually, with your list I can't see how you could not grind out a Pox deck. You have more tools to destroy an ensnaring bridge than Pox has copies of it.

Knight is not pursuing the same role as in JUNK mid range. Beating to death an opponent with a 10/10 knight will happen but I'd rather see it as a boost to get your mangara/karakas lock faster. Not to mention the special hate against S&S & Réa. It could also help fetching the two towers...

Don't overreact to Liliana because you lost some games against heavy discard decks. Hymn+ Liliana will always give some random wins as double waste opening hands also would (And it is played because you will eventually get free wins) . Baloth is a good card nevertheless. Feel free to test and pick up the one who suits you more. I'd rather outpower Liliana's decks or stall until Sigarda lands and closes the deal.

About the Teeg/Linvala etc..thing I thought you were trying to build a hatebear/control abzan Fit list.
Teeg is pretty useless in fair MU but my statement is the following:

"You will likely lose less 1st game against fair decks because of Teeg than you will win against combo.deck thanks to him. The issue you'll encounter G2 & G3 is that white hatebears are quite expected by combo decks (massacre, dread of night, pyroclasm, abrupt decay, toxic deluge etc...)"

Game 1 =

ANT -> Landing Teeg is GG. Standard list has no out preboard. Teeg is threat n°1 / Ooze close 2nd.
TES -> Teeg is usually too slow against TES and they will likely go for the ETW route but who knows if they are on the ADN plan they have to BW -> bounce Teeg.
S&T -> You have 4 cards (2 karakas/1 Primetime +1 Knight potentially) against Show if you add Teeg you shut down Sneak -> GG ?
Dredge -> Teeg will shut down Dread Return shenanigans leaving Dredge with the beatdown route. Ooze is threat n°1/ Teeg n°2.
Elves -> Teeg will only delay the slaughter but you might draw a deed before you got hardcasted Oofed...

From my perspective, Abzan Fit list are bound to lose a few % against fair decks for more % against combo pre-side just because you will mess with their sideboarding strategy.
When they will bring removal and sweepers to deal with your hatebears, you will bring even more hatebears & pinpoint discards to break them harder.

Please take my words with a grain of salt.
I feel like European players are likely playing more unfair/control deck than American do. It is always meta dependant.

[Philipp2293]

I have to disagree regarding your assesment of Teeg vs Show and Tell, the still can show into sneak attack, so no GG.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Well, actually, with your list I can't see how you could not grind out a Pox deck. You have more tools to destroy an ensnaring bridge than Pox has copies of it.

Knight is not pursuing the same role as in JUNK mid range. Beating to death an opponent with a 10/10 knight will happen but I'd rather see it as a boost to get your mangara/karakas lock faster. Not to mention the special hate against S&S & Réa. It could also help fetching the two towers...

Don't overreact to Liliana because you lost some games against heavy discard decks. Hymn+ Liliana will always give some random wins as double waste opening hands also would (And it is played because you will eventually get free wins) . Baloth is a good card nevertheless. Feel free to test and pick up the one who suits you more. I'd rather outpower Liliana's decks or stall until Sigarda lands and closes the deal.

About the Teeg/Linvala etc..thing I thought you were trying to build a hatebear/control abzan Fit list.
Teeg is pretty useless in fair MU but my statement is the following:

"You will likely lose less 1st game against fair decks because of Teeg than you will win against combo.deck thanks to him. The issue you'll encounter G2 & G3 is that white hatebears are quite expected by combo decks (massacre, dread of night, pyroclasm, abrupt decay, toxic deluge etc...)"

Game 1 =

ANT -> Landing Teeg is GG. Standard list has no out preboard. Teeg is threat n°1 / Ooze close 2nd.
TES -> Teeg is usually too slow against TES and they will likely go for the ETW route but who knows if they are on the ADN plan they have to BW -> bounce Teeg.
S&T -> You have 4 cards (2 karakas/1 Primetime +1 Knight potentially) against Show if you add Teeg you shut down Sneak -> GG ?
Dredge -> Teeg will shut down Dread Return shenanigans leaving Dredge with the beatdown route. Ooze is threat n°1/ Teeg n°2.
Elves -> Teeg will only delay the slaughter but you might draw a deed before you got hardcasted Oofed...

From my perspective, Abzan Fit list are bound to lose a few % against fair decks for more % against combo pre-side just because you will mess with their sideboarding strategy.
When they will bring removal and sweepers to deal with your hatebears, you will bring even more hatebears & pinpoint discards to break them harder.

Please take my words with a grain of salt.
I feel like European players are likely playing more unfair/control deck than American do. It is always meta dependant.

No problem Ralf: tbh I could use all the help I can get. My record with my previous lists are abyssmal.

Specifically, I was referring to Maze of Ith. Otherwise, their removal plus that means I cant win.

And definity hear ya on the hatebear plan: I just having reservations about using Teeg with GSZs. I have a feeling that there is a Fauna Shaman build that could work, but not sold on the use of it over GSZ.

[Ralf]

I have to disagree regarding your assesment of Teeg vs Show and Tell, the still can show into sneak attack, so no GG.

Yes, you are definitely right.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Yes, you are definitely right.

In regards to this in particular, does Thalia work with Teeg? If so, both against Sneak and Show would kill them.

[Ralf]

My record with my previous lists are abyssmal.
.

I got that !
Mangara lock is, imho, clunky in Nic Fit but you might have broken into a maverish new horizon kind of thing...

If you like playing Abzan color, I would recommend:
- Qweerios's latest Abzan list packing Pod + SFM (old thread)
- Kevin's brew

Don't dish your ideas just after a couple of testing games :tongue:.

[Ralf]

In regards to this in particular, does Thalia work with Teeg? If so, both against Sneak and Show would kill them.

No.
So even with Talia+Teeg on board, one can cast a S&T.

[benofzongo]

I currently run a Junk Wish Fit build based on what Jbone2016 posted a few months ago (although most of my experience is with Punishing Fit). I'm still a total amateur with the deck but have been very satisfied with how it performs:

Lands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Phyrexian Tower
Creatures
3 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Eternal Witness
(1 Siege Rhino)
1 Sigarda
1 Grave Titan
Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's divining top
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Living Wish
1 Umezawa's Jitte
(1 Vindicate)
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Pernicious deed
1 Batterskull
Sideboard
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sigarda
1 Eternal witness
(1 Melira)

The maindeck parentheses are for things that have been Liliana of the Veil most recently...but I can see Arianrhod's point that, even though I love Lili, she doesn't have a place in every nic fit build, and I'm wondering if this is one of them. Infect has been a thorn in my side so I am thinking about MDing a vindicate for inkmoth, and sideboarding a Melira, but realize this may be too reactive. Overall, my SB is more focused on giving the deck consistency than packing silver bullets (except the canonist and bojuka bog), and I have been pretty happy with this: the karakas (to protect teeg or sigarda), the tower, and the explorer in the board have all been MVPs for me. Sigarda is also a flex spot in the board, but I've come to realize I just want her every single game: she's awesome against everything that isn't combo, especially our omnipresent enemy Miracles. As a final note, I know lots of people hate Grave Titan, but I love that guy. Besides the fact that I just love windmill slamming that guy on the board enough to play him even if he sucks, I've never been unhappy to draw him or have him in a starting hand, he's a huge beating for many decks. Anyways, happy to hear thoughts on the build: my experience is that it is, like all Nic Fit, awesome against fair decks and weak to combo, but it's had surprising game against miracles. Still testing it beyond those awfully broad generalities.

[Ecstatic_Conch]

Thanks for the great primer Arianrhod, well written and a nice summary of all the Nic Fit variants out there. You do say though to name lightning bolt against burn when actually Sulfuric vortex is the biggest threat in my opinion because it stops life gain like Thragtusk, Huntmaster, etc. and that's the main route for victory in the match-up. I'm also curious about Stormbreath Dragon. What made you go with him in your Scapeshift lists? I see the fact that it dodges Swords to Plowshares but otherwise I'm not completely sold. I think I'd rather just have two abrupt decays main instead to hedge against a variety of decks.

For my local weekly event, I tried to port Melira pod over to legacy, with a few key additions. Veteran Explorer, Deathrite Shaman, and Green Sun's Zenith are not legal in modern but I took advantage of them here. I guess you could argue that this list isn't quite Nic Fit since it doesn't run pernicious deed, but it has the other key components of Veteran Explorer + Cabal Therapy. I went 3-1 yesterday in my weekly with the following list, beating high tide (4 candles!), pox, burn, and losing to miracles.

Lands:
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
3 Windswept Heath
1 Gavony Township
1 Dryad Arbor

Creatures (By CMC):
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Viscera Seer
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Wall of Blossoms
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1 Restoration Angel
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Reveillark
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan

Spells:
4 Birthing Pod
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy

SB: 1 Bone Shredder
SB: 1 Sin Collector
SB: 1 Hornet Queen
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Council's Judgment

This is actually 62 cards and I can't remember what I cut, but probably the second melira could go away. Admittedly, I went for a few fun-of's in Hornet Queen and Yisan. However, I green sun zenithed for Hornet Queen against Pox after boarding it in and his Tombstalker/Liliana of the veil started to look mighty pathetic. While playing against my miracles opponent he swords to plowshared my Yisan immediately before I could untap with it and he called it "scary." It's basically in there to be Pod number 5 and to generate board presence and card advantage versus fair decks. I'm not sure if Yisan is terribly competitive, but it's a fun magic card and I'd encourage pod users to try him out. Valroz is a GSZable sacrifice outlet for the melira combo and I was not unhappy to just draw it naturally. It works well with Thrun in post board games to make a giant monster.

There's a lot of talk of Junk Nic Fit decks in the new thread and I'd be interested to see some other Junk Pod lists. I know there are some in the old thread, and I tried searching by name people I know play the archetype but I couldn't find a recent list.

[Ralf]

There's a lot of talk of Junk Nic Fit decks in the new thread and I'd be interested to see some other Junk Pod lists. I know there are some in the old thread, and I tried searching by name people I know play the archetype but I couldn't find a recent list.

Here you go: click me (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20983-Deck-Nic-Fit-(GBx-Explorer-Zenith-Control)&p=815464&viewfull=1#post815464)

[Arianrhod]

@Conch:

Keep in mind that the Therapy names are the initial cast of Therapy -- it's assumed that readers can make the correct call on flashback because they'll have the information (barring Brainstorm). Vortex costs 3 and is not an instant, so it's safe to hold off on it until the flashback. I do agree that it is far and away burn's most threatening card in the matchup, though -- probably Fireblast is the only other thing close. Although, Eidolon can randomly be obnoxious.

I think that you might have better luck porting "angel pod," since the Thune package is already established. Melira seems really clunky for legacy -- hell, I've often found it to be too clunky for modern, even.

Why are you not running Stoneforge? That's another insane Pod card that isn't legal in modern that you can run here. It's much, much better than Voice of Resurgence, I'd say.

[HoneyT]

Here's my current Junk Pod list as there seems to be renewed interest in the archetype:

2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Forest
1 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

1 Archangel of Thune
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Restoration Angel
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Spike Feeder
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wall of Blossoms

3 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
3 Birthing Pod
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Umezawa's Jitte

SB
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Choke
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Golgari Charm
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Thoughtseize

Been testing it for a few months now and it's actually very good. The addition of Siege Rhino is bonkers. Have fun.

[Schulzchop]

Hi Folks, after avoiding this for the last few months, I'm testing the BUG Pod list that has become somewhat popular outside of the US. Here is the list I'm currently trying:

1 Eternal Witness
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Grave Titan
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thragtusk
1 Trinket Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer

4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Pernicious Deed

1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Birthing Pod

1 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs

I played a few games yesterday and I found Sower of Temptation and Trinket Mage very subpar. Even if I had Explosives (which I then have to cut a card), I wasn't super happy with it in general. I also found myself heavily leaning on Deed in a lot of situations. I am thinking swapping Sower for Venser (and moving her the board) but I am not sure what to replace the Trinket Mage and Top with. I like the toolbox options but I think it's too slow. It does lean itself to options with Birthing Pod and the ability to go grab a 0 or 1 drop to Pod with, but that seems too cute. Last, is Grave Titan really the best option at 6 for us? I was thinking if there is an "I win" combo in these colors and it doesn't seem like there is an easy one (excluding Melira, which is too slow I think).

My therapies were relatively okay and I think that was a big part of my games.

Does anyone have any notes they have about the deck they can share? I was pretty happy with it in general but I need to tune the specific cards a little more.

As far as Trinket Mage, have you tried it with Pithing Needle as well? I've found the maindeck needle to be very good in a variety of matchups. The one awkward thing about the Trinket toolbox has been the non-combo with Pernicious deed, although you can play around your cards for the most part. If you want to swap out the Trinket mage, you could look to something like True-Name Nemesis. Sometimes this deck does have trouble applying pressure, especially in the face of Jace, so it could be worth testing. I have also made the Sower/Venser swap. Venser is OK, certainly better than Sower, but not spectacular.

[Zirath]

As far as Trinket Mage, have you tried it with Pithing Needle as well? I've found the maindeck needle to be very good in a variety of matchups. The one awkward thing about the Trinket toolbox has been the non-combo with Pernicious deed, although you can play around your cards for the most part. If you want to swap out the Trinket mage, you could look to something like True-Name Nemesis. Sometimes this deck does have trouble applying pressure, especially in the face of Jace, so it could be worth testing. I have also made the Sower/Venser swap. Venser is OK, certainly better than Sower, but not spectacular.

The problem with more targets is that I have to cut more cards. The best I feel I can cut is a Pod. I don't think going below 4 on the others is right and I don't want to cut a creature for an artifact. The Trinket Mage plan might be stronger in the sideboard where I can board in the Mage along with Explosives, Relic, Needle and maybe the Top if it's gonna go to a grind.

Interesting thought. My problem with True-Name is that he kinda doesn't fit the rest of our plan. I will definitely try him and see what I think.

There isn't a better card at 4 and Venser does what is needed. He also deals with anything, which is something I really like.

[honz]

This is all in relation to the BUG pod lists:

I've been running a true name nemesis and would highly recommend it. Its main job is killing planeswalkers (aka jace), but it also closes out games nicely and provides a (mostly) unanswerable threat, which is something this deck is somewhat missing. Also face tanking nearly anything is always nice. It is probably the best 3cc creature in the format, so why not run it.

Random thought, but has anyone tried llawan, cephalid empress in the sideboard? I suspect it is a little too cute/situational but havent actually tried it out myself.

Similiarly, teferi, mage of zhalfir seems really good against miracles. Aside from turning off miracle, it shuts down counters. The casting cost is rather high, to be fair, but it might be worth a try.

I am also curious as to why more people are not running jace. If ever there was a deck to run planeswalkers in, this would be it. It ramps quickly, controls the board, and runs a ton of creatures (aka blockers for jace). I really wanted to run a different planeswalker than jace (I really wanted kiora, the crashing wave to work, or the garruks), but jace is just jace. Brainstorming every turn in a deck running this many shuffle effects is insanely strong. I have been running 2x jace over sensei's top + trinket mage

[UseLess]

This is all in relation to the BUG pod lists:

I've been running a true name nemesis and would highly recommend it. Its main job is killing planeswalkers (aka jace), but it also closes out games nicely and provides a (mostly) unanswerable threat, which is something this deck is somewhat missing. Also face tanking nearly anything is always nice. It is probably the best 3cc creature in the format, so why not run it.


I second this. Been saying it for quite a while but not many people seem to like the idea. I've loved it ever since it was printed though. Always good to get with pod, both offensive and defensive. A marginal benefit of the card is also that nobody really expects it and I've often heard a "Oh... you run that as well? *sigh*". My decklist can be found here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20983-Deck-Nic-Fit-(GBx-Explorer-Zenith-Control)&p=828886&highlight=#post828886.

Regarding 6 drops in BUG: [CARD]Consecrated Sphinx[/CARDS]. Usually I win the game if I can draw at least 2 cards from it. Also hilarious to put into play upon a SnT from your opponent that puts Griselbrand into play ^^.


I think Pod variants of Nic Fit are a whole different animal. For starters, Pod decks are aggro decks with disruptive elements at the core while traditional Nic Fit is a dedicated control deck in all of its iterations. You can see this difference when you observe the amount creatures with lower mana costs vs. the amount of non-creature spells present in each respective deck.

Secondly, they don't use Deed quite as effectively and some versions are even better without. Pod has no incentive to blow a Deed on their own Arbor, DRS, Strix, SFM/Jitte, or reset their Pod Chain in order to deal with a single Nemesis. The main strength of Deed in today's legacy is its versatility and its main piece of synergy with Nic Fit resides in its ability to generate lots of mana quickly in order to be able to abuse an instant speed board wipe into a devastating Planeswalker (Lily, Jace, Garruk, etc.) or board breaking creature.

I guess this depends on the Pod version you're playing. My BUG list is extremely slow and is a pure control list. Deed for <4 is still very very good against pretty much every legacy deck and while it might hurt the small guys a bit, I don't mind sacrificing some (of which the EtB/LtB triggers were already beneficial) to whipe the board of my opponent clean. I do see your arguments for Junk pod though. As Kevin wrote in the primer, GSZ is just not very good in the BUG colors. Therefore, I've opted for a Pod package of creatures, while not really trying to change the way the deck plays. So far I'm very happy with my list and if I'd make a little less mistakes I'm sure that I'll start putting up better results more consistently. The 12th of October I will play my deck at the Danish Legacy Masters. It will be interesting to see how the deck fares in a larger tournament.



Lastly and most importantly, Explorer does not represent the same thing for each deck. In a traditional Nic Fit list, an Explorer trigger is an essential component of the deck's success. This is why the better lists play 4 Explorer and 4 GSZ to maximize the chances of this crucial trigger even though the 2nd Explorer trigger has diminishing returns and the 3rd and 4th are mostly cluster and dead weight. In a Pod deck however, Explorers are treated as added value and are not as crucial of a component to the deck's success. Pod decks have more ramp tools, a lower curve, and is overall more proactive as it doesn't need to wait for an Explorer to be available in order to use a Therapy effectively. My most recent and successful Pod lists have dropped down to 2 Explorers because the trigger is only desired when a Therapy or a Pod activation is available in the early game.

Aside from that, great work on the primer Kevin. You were always the most dedicated to this deck and I am glad to see you reiterate its history for the future Nic Fitters. I may not share your optimism on the deck's future success but I do share your enthusiasm about the spicy brews to come.

I agree with both these parts. I only play 3 explorers and an additional 3 DRS who do a great job at ramping (E.g. enabling a T2 Birthing Pod), gaining life from all the pod activations or posing a threat. This configuration worked great for me and I certainly don't want a 4th explorer.

Nice job on the primer, looks like a very complete list of all the nic fit varieties!

Has anyone tested Treasure Cruise in BUG lists? I'm currently running 4x Brainstorm and 2x Ponder and I think of going -2 Ponder, +2 Treasure Cruise. My graveyard is easily filled and while I run a witness there is plenty of crap to delve away. My main concern is that this choice will hurt the consistency of my deck in the early turns, but the plan of ponder was mostly to use it for card quality in the mid/late game anyway. Will be tested for sure.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I'm not exactly sold on Rhino, but that's mostly because I feel Swagtusk is still one of the best anti-control cards available to use while still being usable in the tempo matchup (combo, as always, is a nightmare).

Also, I've been testing the following list on cockatrice. So far I've played against Rock with Hymns and a hybrid of MUD and UR Painter (by that I mean it had a stompy manabase, ran Chalices, EE, Blood Moon, Force of Will, and Wurmcoil Engine) that for some reason had Tinker main deck. The former I lost pretty badly too after being hellbent from Liliana and Hymns, but the second one I lost one game, won the next thanks to Mangara lock and proper sequencing.

61 Main
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Eternal Witness
3 Mangara of Corondor
2 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Council's Judgment
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Karakas

10 Side
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Karakas

Current Changes (Main)
-1 Deathrite Shaman
-1 Qasali Pridemage
+1 Sylvan Safekeeper
+1 Gaddock Teeg

Potential Changes (Side)
-1 Karakas
+1 Thespian's Stage
+1 Dark Depths

Notes
-Sylvan Safekeeper is an absolute boss when we have to play the beatdown in the matchup. Even though I lost both games where it actually had an impact, I attribute that to misplays on my behalf and an inability to close the game out quickly [*successfully used against G2 Miracles and G1 Jund]
-Gaddock Teeg wrecks Miracles, especially when backed up by Safekeeper, which mean their only answers are Council's Judgment or combat. [*successfully used against G2 Miracles]
-Qasali Pridemage, on the other hand, did nothing that I had expected it to do. In fact, the only matchup I'd be concerned about having it would the OmniTell matchup and possibly against Batterskull, though I suspect the latter would be about the same as using it on Top
-While Mango Crackers has helped save my butt a few times, I don't think it's worth it to add an extra Karakas in the sideboard. After all, the biggest weakness this list has from testing is an inability to close out the game quickly.
-Conversely, Stage Depths seems like a fine switch in against fair decks, especially when backed up by Sylvan Safekeeper.

[Zirath]

Thanks for the feedback. I will definitely try True-Name Nemesis. I have one more slot. Any recommendations? I have a personal preference to some kinda silly cards, like Meloku and Tradewind Rider.

[Whitefaces]

What is peoples thoughts on Clever Impersonator? I can see him fitting into BUG pod lists pretty nicely.

[JanoschEausH]

What is peoples thoughts on Clever Impersonator? I can see him fitting into BUG pod lists pretty nicely.

Yeah, I also thought about that. Could clone a Jace. On the other hand, he competes with Sower slotwise, and Sower is just better against the decks, where we really need such an effect (SnT, Reanimator). Sower dies to removal more likeley, though. I guess that has to be tested.

[Arianrhod]

What is peoples thoughts on Clever Impersonator? I can see him fitting into BUG pod lists pretty nicely.

He replaces Phyrexian Metamorph if anyone was running that guy. The issue imo is that he's another subpar pod target to actually cast -- he's great if you can pod into him, because they can't respond...but if you think that Impersonator is going to resolve vs an on-board Griselbrand, you're sadly mistaken. Furthermore, he does actual nothing if he clones Emrakul, since the opponent's will attack first.

I dunno. I -like- the card, but I don't realistically think it's good enough. Creatures that are only good with a Pod in play should generally be avoided.

On a side note, Rakshasha Deathdealer tremendously impressed me at the prerelease this weekend. I won actually every single game that I got to play him. Now, admittedly, he's a bit worse in formats with Swords to Plowshares etc, but he's at least on my radar now. I would probably only consider him in straight GB, because he -is- very color intensive, but he could very well be worth the slot there.

[Zirath]

I don't even play Metamorph, so I don't see this as much of an upgrade. There isn't really any I want to copy that isn't a creature and we have Phantasmal Image for that.

At the moment, I am thinking Fatestitcher might be interesting to try out. It lets you get multiple pod uses in a turn, can stall if you are in the control position and by itself gets us up to 6.

Also, a friend of mine suggested Aetherling on 6. I personally am thinking of trying Oona.

[jbone2016]

I don't even play Metamorph, so I don't see this as much of an upgrade. There isn't really any I want to copy that isn't a creature and we have Phantasmal Image for that.

At the moment, I am thinking Fatestitcher might be interesting to try out. It lets you get multiple pod uses in a turn, can stall if you are in the control position and by itself gets us up to 6.

Also, a friend of mine suggested Aetherling on 6. I personally am thinking of trying Oona.

What do we think about big Frosty the tapping Titan in the BUG Pod lists?

[conboy31]

I think the imposter is generally worse than metamorph. The upside of versatility probably doesn't outweigh 3 colorless + 2 life being practically free vs. 2UU.

[Zirath]

What do we think about big Frosty the tapping Titan in the BUG Pod lists?

My issue with Frosty is that he isn't any stronger than Grave Titan in a lot of situations for this deck. He's still vulnerable to Liliana and Jace and his best quality is that he can tap down Emrakul/Griselbrand, which is already something we don't really worry as much about with Phantasmal Image and Venser/Sower.

[Whitefaces]

I had a bunch of fun at my LGS last night playing this.

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
1 Eternal Witness
2 Notion Theif
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Grave Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Crop Rotation
1 Life from the Loam
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Batterskull

2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Veil
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespians Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta

I actually built this deck for a laugh to play some casual games at the prereleases on the weekend in between rounds. I didn't bother with a SB. Then I didn't have enough time to put something else together before the weekly legacy at my LGS so threw a SB together in a few mins from what I had in my binder.

SB:

4 Force of Will
4 Swan Song
2 Duress
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Surgical Extraction

I managed to 4 - 0 beating Reanimator, Jund, RUG Delver and Food Chain, only dropping game one to reanimator. It just goes to show the power of Veteran Explorer when your opponents don't have basics or can't do anything with the mana. I know that's kind of obvious, but it really shone here.

Having the toolbox lands usually allowed me to fetch duals against wasteland decks as they had to use them on Tabernacle etc, which then allowed my explorers to be more powerful. Also, threatening the dark depths combo at any time forces your opponent to act on that which leaves a huge amount of room to just drop your bombs.

[Megadeus]

I had a bunch of fun at my LGS last night playing this.

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
1 Eternal Witness
2 Notion Theif
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Grave Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Crop Rotation
1 Life from the Loam
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Batterskull

2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Veil
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespians Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta

I actually built this deck for a laugh to play some casual games at the prereleases on the weekend in between rounds. I didn't bother with a SB. Then I didn't have enough time to put something else together before the weekly legacy at my LGS so threw a SB together in a few mins from what I had in my binder.

SB:

4 Force of Will
4 Swan Song
2 Duress
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Surgical Extraction

I managed to 4 - 0 beating Reanimator, Jund, RUG Delver and Food Chain, only dropping game one to reanimator. It just goes to show the power of Veteran Explorer when your opponents don't have basics or can't do anything with the mana. I know that's kind of obvious, but it really shone here.

Having the toolbox lands usually allowed me to fetch duals against wasteland decks as they had to use them on Tabernacle etc, which then allowed my explorers to be more powerful. Also, threatening the dark depths combo at any time forces your opponent to act on that which leaves a huge amount of room to just drop your bombs.

This list looks fucking sweet. It's kinda out there, but interesting. Maybe consider Prime Titan since it fetches up all of your sweet sweet lands. Just another way in general to find different lands seems like something nice to have.

[pfiremc13]

And a new deck was born--this time, from an unexpected source.

[Whitefaces]

This list looks fucking sweet. It's kinda out there, but interesting. Maybe consider Prime Titan since it fetches up all of your sweet sweet lands. Just another way in general to find different lands seems like something nice to have.

I thought of Prime Time when putting it together. He really shines in builds with GSZ though, which I chose not to run. He's also best in Jund builds I've found as you have more mana sinks (Kessig Wolf Run, P. Fire etc). Tops, Brainstorms and to an extent Jaces found me what I needed usually. Having another tutor for the lands is nice, but a lot of their application is in the earlier game. Tutoring for Stage + Depths is nice and all, but slightly win more. If I'm playing a titan, I want that to be enough to win. Grave Daddy just puts away games so fast. I've played a lot of Junk Nic Fit builds which had GSZ every time as there's no access to Brainstorm, but I think in BUG builds it's not as necessary. There is a lot of design room though, but you'd probably have to cut some of the land aspect of the deck to make room for the package.

Some cool little notes from the games.

- Notion Thief in resp to a Griselbrand activation is hilarious.
- Putting in a Grave Titan from your opponents SnT is hilarious.
- Turn two Tamiyo is hilarious (T1 Explorer, T2 Phyrexian Tower. Tap yo land.)

[Ralf]

Since we are sharing our Troll Buddies, here is mine.

Rea Fit by Ralf

Lands
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs

Creatures
1 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Notion Thief
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Baleful Strix
4 Veteran Explorer

Artos
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Enchant
2 Pernicious Deed

Instants
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Crop Rotation
3 Entomb
4 Brainstorm

Sorceries
1 Life from the Loam
3 Reanimate
3 Cabal Therapy

SB: 1 Progenitus
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Elderscale Wurm
SB: 1 Worldspine Wurm
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Tree of Redemption
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 4 Natural Order

[Bobmans]

Awesome brews being posted here. Just makes you wanna get some... But somehow trying to get some cool list together gives me headaches. So many choices. For now i will stick to Punishing Fit. Been tweaking HoneyT's stock list, although not to much to tweak about it anyway. I was thinking about Living Wish earlier, but for now have dismissed the idea. It felt kind of mediocre. I have started to like Huntmaster of the Fells a lot. It took over some games on it's own. The deck itself is a blast to play and has the ability to squeeze out wins where the board state wasn't that positive. But i must say i am not to impressed by either Primeval Titan and Broodmate Dragon. So i was thinking about either sticking to the green Titan or go a different path and adding two non-green Titans to the list instead of Primeval Titan.

Option A:
1 Grave Titan
1 Inferno Titan
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Diabolic Intent/Removal/Something else?
-1 GSZ's

Option B:
1 Primeval Titan
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

I really like both options. The Titan's both can just take over games. Where Inferno gets rid of opposing creatures or just burns to the face. But both are not Zenithable. Which doesn't have to matter since there are BUG/BG/GBW lists doing basically the same. Also going for this option i might have to add a mountain or taiga MD.

On the other hand PrimeTime does digup the two towers and doing tricks with Eternal Witness and removal. Also Wolfir over Broodmate since it costs 5 instead of 6 and has bigger bodies when Soulbound, turning a dead Explorer into a 5/5 body.

And Garruk Relentless vs Garruk, Primal Hunter? I am not sure. PH seems more consistant, powerfull and harder to remove, while Relentless can provide more utility and when flipped dies to Abrupt Decay.

Anyway i am probably just gonna have to try it out. Heres the rest of the list.


4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Maelstrom Pulse

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire

SB: 3 Deathrite Shaman
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Reclemation Sage

[Ralf]

Awesome brews being posted here. Just makes you wanna get some... But somehow trying to get some cool list together gives me headaches. So many choices. For now i will stick to Punishing Fit. Been tweaking HoneyT's stock list, although not to much to tweak about it anyway. I was thinking about Living Wish earlier, but for now have dismissed the idea. It felt kind of mediocre. I have started to like Huntmaster of the Fells a lot. It took over some games on it's own. The deck itself is a blast to play and has the ability to squeeze out wins where the board state wasn't that positive. But i must say i am not to impressed by either Primeval Titan and Broodmate Dragon. So i was thinking about either sticking to the green Titan or go a different path and adding two non-green Titans to the list instead of Primeval Titan.

Option A:
1 Grave Titan
1 Inferno Titan
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Diabolic Intent/Removal/Something else?
-1 GSZ's

Option B:
1 Primeval Titan
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

I really like both options. The Titan's both can just take over games. Where Inferno gets rid of opposing creatures or just burns to the face. But both are not Zenithable. Which doesn't have to matter since there are BUG/BG/GBW lists doing basically the same. Also going for this option i might have to add a mountain or taiga MD.

On the other hand PrimeTime does digup the two towers and doing tricks with Eternal Witness and removal. Also Wolfir over Broodmate since it costs 5 instead of 6 and has bigger bodies when Soulbound, turning a dead Explorer into a 5/5 body.

And Garruk Relentless vs Garruk, Primal Hunter? I am not sure. PH seems more consistant, powerfull and harder to remove, while Relentless can provide more utility and when flipped dies to Abrupt Decay.

Anyway i am probably just gonna have to try it out. Heres the rest of the list.
[/cards]

There is no correct answer to your questions.

Titans:

As a matter of fact, a Titan, whatever color he is, will likely take over a few games.

Finally,for me, only consistency prevails and Primetime is the more consistent one, for several reasons:
- Green -> GSZable (which is the big deal here) & easier to cast because you own more Forest than every other land type
- Stronger synergy with the core of the deck -> the only one that can get you the twin towers OR the groves
- The strongest evasion ability of all titan -> Trample>Deathtouch>Inferno boost

Grave Titan is the best second one, because:
1) Of all titans, he is THE BADASS against S&T.
2) He has the fastest clock

Planeswalker:

It is a hard choice and advice to give: I love Primal Hunter but I play Relentless...
1) Did I alpha strike someone with PH's ultimate ? Yes, but just a couple of times.
2) Did I draw a bunch of card with PH (mostly 3) ? Yes, but not THAT often/usually irrelevant at the very stage of the game
3) Did I kill someone with tokens ? Yes a LOT of times

Finally I came to the conclusion that they were relevant not much for their ultimate or second ability but mostly for the fact that they are literaly "shitting" tokens if left unchecked. In other words, they shine in any fair games or control mirror -> Stalling until you nuke the world &/ kill your opponent.
But, Relentless IS cheaper (3 green is no joke) & can kill a flipped delver. Mass was said.

Imho, stick with Primeval & play Relentless.

[Surfkatt]

Came across this during my normal SCG browsings: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29408_Daily-Digest-Pods-Legacy.html

[Alexeezay]

Hello, I haven't played Nic Fit for a while and want to try my favorite, Scapewish on Saturday. I feel like it could be a fine choice right now, Miracles/Control seems like a favored matchup and it seems good vs decks that rely on creatures.

Does anybody have a Sideboard Guide with Board Ins and Board Outs, let's say vs the current top decks a la Miracles, SnT/Reanimator, Elves, Death and Taxes, Delver, Infect?
Arianrhod? :)
I'm not super sure when to board out Wishes and so on.

And how do you feel about the 2 Stormbreaths? Isn't the curve too high with so many monsters?
Could you see switching out 2 Fetchlands for a Forest and a Kessig Wolf Run or maybe Forest/Mountain? Because I like getting only Basics vs wasteland.deck. But maybe it's too greedy.
Thanks!

[Nitrospira]

Some cool little notes from the games.

- Notion Thief in resp to a Griselbrand activation is hilarious.
- Putting in a Grave Titan from your opponents SnT is hilarious.
- Turn two Tamiyo is hilarious (T1 Explorer, T2 Phyrexian Tower. Tap yo land.)


What makes Grave Titan so good vs SnT? You get a few zombies, but Grizzy and Emrakul both have flying...what am I missing

[XdeckX]

I know not many of you follow the ways of McDarby (aka PlaneswalkerFit or whatever you wanna call it)
I've got a tourney comming up next sunday and was thinking of running a planeswalker centered list. The meta is usually mostly fair decks so it might be a good choice (still have a sideboard dedicated to beating combo)

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Aetherling or Batterskull

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 Karn Liberated

4 Pernicious Deed
4 Innocent Blood
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Forest
2 Island
3 Swamp
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Creeping Tar Pit

//
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Notion Thief
2 Flusterstorm
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Force of Will
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Surgical Extraction

For those who haven't read McDarby's article (here (http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28982_Veteran-Walkers.html)) this version of NicFith has to difficulties: Planeswalkers and Combo. I've updated the original list to combat the Planeswalkers a bit better by adding the Tarpits and Aetherling (or Batterskull... still undecided) To beat combo I have a dedicated sideboard.

It this the best NicFit list? No but its just loads of fun to play as I enjoy messing about with planeswalkers and really love that Pernicious Deeds kills everything but planeswalkers (but that includes your opponents walkers)

I'm just looking for a bit of feedback to the list I'm currently running.

[Ralf]

What makes Grave Titan so good vs SnT? You get a few zombies, but Grizzy and Emrakul both have flying...what am I missing

Deathtouch (the real deal) & pure race.

Scenario 1 "S&T into Emrakul"

1) You get to attack first for 6 or 10 (depending of your board state & hand) + 2 new zombies ETB -> -6/-8 for opp
2) You take a shot from Emrakul -> Sac 6 permanents (say 5 lands + 1 zombie only for demonstration purpose) ->-15 for you
3) You swing for a most likely lethal attack -> -15 for you and -12 (-18 cumul)/-10 (-18 cumul) for opp

So, you can win this game, only if your opp is at 18 (or under) and if you had enough permanent in play.

Scenario 2 "S&T into Grisel"

1) you get to attack first for 6 saving 2 zombies (to not give him life defending) -> -6 for opp
2) you take a shot from Grisel -> +1 for opp - 7 for you
3) you attack for 14 (titan+4 zomb) -> -13 for opp - 7 for you
4) you take 7 from Grisel -> -6 for opp - 14 for you
5) you attack for 18 (titan+6 zomb) -> - 24 for opp - 14 for you

So, your opponent has to go "All In" (draw 7 and prey) to beat you.

Scenario 3 "Grave titan is blocked"

-> Fair trade because you are left with 4 zombies 2/2...

Understood ?

[XdeckX]

Little update regarding my post above...
I went to the tourney with the following list
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Batterskull

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 Karn Liberated

4 Pernicious Deed
4 Innocent Blood
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Forest
2 Island
3 Swamp
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Creeping Tar Pit

//
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Notion Thief
2 Flusterstorm
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Force of Will
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Surgical Extraction

Boy did I get the meta wrong! Ususally its a pretty fair meta but this time some unknown faces turned up. In the end the meta was pretty hostile to be playing Planeswalker NicFit. Omniscience, SneakShow, Alluren, Reanimate, ANT, Burn which makes about half the meta with 13 players.
We played 4 rounds with top 4. I put up a 1-1-2 result playing Burn, Goblins, Reanimate and Welder MUD.

I somehow won against Burn in 2 games. Game 1 was won on the back of my Batterskull after going to 2 life. Game 2 my opponent gets manaflooded and I jace him (had to abrupt decay my Clique to get enough stormcount to Flusterstorm a Lightning Bolt).

I played Goblins next. Game 1 was easy with loads of mana, boardwipes and Liliana. Game 2 and 3 he got mana as well from Explorers and went Ringleader into Ringleader into Ringleader. I was pressed for mana both games even with the Explorers netting me some. It's hard playing and blowing a deed for 3-4 when all the mana you have comes from explorers and the 2 land you start out with ;)

Reanimate was actually pretty close. Game 1 was a blowout... He starts the game and T1 Careful Studies dumping Tidespout Tyrant. I just play a land. He exhumes his Tyrant. I EOT brainstorm which he dazes (was hoping for that). I play my land again and Innocent Blood but he has a 2nd daze.
Game 2 I just Liliana him out of the game. Game 3 was really close. I get to check out his deck after a Extraction on this Grisselbrands. He only has 3 other dudes he can reanimate and an Emrakul which can only work with S+T. He gets a needle on Liliana. I rip Liliana :( and play it (since I still have decays) He eventually S+T which I try to Force but he has Force as well. He dumps Ashen Rider while I have nothing. Liliana gets exiled. I rip and play Notion Thief. He swings, I swing and Innocent Blood. Then he rips reanimate from the top and goes to 1 reanimating the Ashen Rider again. I find nothing on my next 2 turns.

My Welder MUD opponent had all the mana but no threats game 1 so that was easy (I finally get to resolve Karn). Game 2 he has everything. I put up a fight but cant win. Game 3 I get him pretty much locked down with Liliana and beat with Clique but we dont have enough time. In my final turn I get him to 2 life.


The deck is really fun to play and I guess given a less hostile meta it would do pretty well. Even with all the draw the deck has I still had a hard time to find enough mana. Karn was boarded out almost every game. I doubt I would play him again. Perhaps that slot is better suited for either Ashiok or some random beater/utility creature. Maybe Baleful Strix needs to come back in again. The rest of the deck was fine. Liliana is a bomb, so is Jace. Kiora was great when I saw and resolved her (getting ultimate in 1 game against goblins prompting a quick scoop)
The side was fine as well although I didnt really get to board that much (have nothing against Burn and Goblins) against reanimate I put in about 14 cards :) The hard part is cutting cards without hampering the ability to actually close out games.
I doubt I will play this list anytime soon but will continue to evolve it on Cockatrice.

[Ralf]

The deck is really fun to play and I guess given a less hostile meta it would do pretty well. Even with all the draw the deck has I still had a hard time to find enough mana. Karn was boarded out almost every game. I doubt I would play him again. Perhaps that slot is better suited for either Ashiok or some random beater/utility creature. Maybe Baleful Strix needs to come back in again. The rest of the deck was fine. Liliana is a bomb, so is Jace. Kiora was great when I saw and resolved her (getting ultimate in 1 game against goblins prompting a quick scoop)
The side was fine as well although I didnt really get to board that much (have nothing against Burn and Goblins) against reanimate I put in about 14 cards :) The hard part is cutting cards without hampering the ability to actually close out games.
I doubt I will play this list anytime soon but will continue to evolve it on Cockatrice.

I have gone down this road a few months ago, even before McDarby special was unleashed.
Click me (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20983-Deck-Nic-Fit-(GBx-Explorer-Zenith-Control)&p=776376&viewfull=1#post776376)

Pretty much the same conclusion.
We beat "hard" fair decks & we struggle even harder against combo.

[thotcrime]

2 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Volrath's Stronghold

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Slaughter Games

SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay

[Whitefaces]

So I went 3-1 last night with this (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28548-Primer-Deck-Nic-Fit&p=835950&viewfull=1#post835950). The only change I made was -1 Tamiyo, +1 Dig Through Time.

R1 vs BUG Delver 2-0

Both games were pretty similar as I had Explorers in hand. I played around daze, got them to resolve and die and then proceeded to play big threats after stripping the FoWs from his band with therapy. Simple gameplan and simple games.

R2 vs Reanimator 2-1

A tougher matchup for sure. He was also playing MD pithing needles. G1 he had a fairly poor draw and couldn't find a reanimation spell for the griselbrand in his yard for the first 3 which gave me enough time to brainstorm away dead cards and find therapies. I had a tiny army of explorers and strix attacking him lower than one griselbrand activation and had a notion thief and karakas in hand so the game seemed fairly locked. He SnTs, I put in Karakas and he has Iona. Bounce it etc and finally kill him. I didn't want to show him the Karakas though which was a shame.

G2 was a much faster affair. My hand had Explorer, Duress, Jace, Notion Thief and three lands. He led with delta, go. I led with Explorer as I didn't want the Duress dazed as it was my only interaction. I'm not sure if the punt was keeping that hand or not duressing that turn but he eots Entomb and then reanimates the griz. He lets me resolve a brainstorm which seemed bad as he knew I had Karakas in the deck, but I didn't find it.

G3 I keep a hand of Karakas, Bojuka Bog, 2 fetches, Bayou, Duress and Jace. T1 Duress sees 2x Careful Study, Exhume, Griz and lands. Take the Exhume. I drew lands the first few turns so just made my land drops. He finds a reanimate on the second Careful Study ad gets grizz. On my turn I play Karakas and bounce, he draws 7. Doesn't find a needle and can't drop anything without it getting bounced. I land a jace which surprisingly resolves. Bog away his GY, therapy away SnTs incase he draws ashen rider and lock the game up with explorer beats.

R3 vs URb Delver. 1-2

G1 is a nice display of what Explorer decks do. Explorer into explorer into therapy into deed. Deed away his board then play jace and grave titan.

G2 was a pretty nice display of how busted Treasure Cruise is. I didn't have an explorer, but a tabernacle and abrupt decay keep things in check for a bit. Unfortunately two cruises later and I'm way behind facing a swiftspear, delver and a sulfuric vortex. A deed would have been nice, but I was dead before I could even look for one.

G3 was pretty similar, though only one cruise. It got to a stalemate and we were both topdecking, but I had a top. My first draw was Notion Thief, not bad! His first drew is Young Pyro, ouch. Proceed to not find anything on the top three and have to use the last card in my hand which is a deluge. A vortex locks it up.

R4 vs TES. 2-0

I went into this thinking it's an auto loss. Apparently not.

G1 he mulls to six. I keep a one lander (trop) with BS, explorer, garruk, witness, decay, deed. Not great, but I think it's good enough. He probes and therapies away the explorer off a gemstone mine so I know he's on storm. I draw a second BS. Eot burn one looking for land, find a crop rotation and a top but no land. He draws and passes without making a second land drop. I draw then BS seeing one of the dead cards and two new ones which are therapy and phyrexian tower. I have to awkwardly crop rotate away the tower to get a bayou and therapy naming Burning Wish. I hit. His hand has a lot of mana but no win con. He was one storm off killing me last turn. With the shuffle effect from rotation I manage to find more lands and get a jace ticking up and a notion thief in play. Such an awkward game, but got there!

G2 I fire off two therapies, one gets flashed back with an explorer. Then get a duress off a BS and strip his hand down to almost nothing. Get a jace going. He empties for 10 tokens, I crop rotate into Tabernacle then play a Grave Titan and it's over in two turns. I had Swan Song and FoW in the end too.

So, the deck started off as a bit of a silly joke, but it's actually playing quite nicely. I'm going to keep tweaking it, I think Dig Through Time has a place here. The mana is actually working out better than I thought too which is nice.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I've been altering my method of deckbuilding for Nic Fit, starting with whether Nic Fit is a meta or anti-meta deck. Now, I believe at its core, Nic Fit is anti-meta: the interaction between Cabal Therapy and Veteran Explorer is what enables the deck to do so well in certain metas. However, that implies a few things about the meta: that the decks in the meta don't run lots of basics (like Miracles and some D&T do), that the decks in the meta can't reliably play around Veteran Explorer (i.e. Delver, Swords to Plowshares, etc.), and, to a much lesser extent, that we actually know what the key cards are for the meta decks (important, but should be second nature to anyone running Cabal Therapy).

Given that Delver has been the flavor of tempo for quite some time, Swords is the go-to removal for a variety of decks, and the current trend points to less greedy manabases (in particular Miracles and D&T), I believe that Veteran Explorer at this point is a liability, at least without a previously played Cabal Therapy backing it up. Powerful still, yet can easily blow up in our collective face.

Such a card would be fine at 2 to 3, but not a full 4-of. Of course, without the full playset, Cabal Therapy loses a lot of its appeal as an engine enabler.

This also means our secondary (or rather our now more reliable, yet less explosive) ramp source demands more attention. Since I prefer Deathrite Shaman due to its utility and cost-effectiveness, I'll be running more fetchlands than usual. As such, we have a greater access to cheap shuffle effects to abuse Top with, though this balances out with less Vets.

I'll probably continue the review of my thought process later, but right not I kinda want to get some sleep. Here's the final result thought.

3 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Eternal Witness
2 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Living Wish
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Council's Judgment
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Karakas
[----]
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Ethersworn Canonist

[Arianrhod]

I've been altering my method of deckbuilding for Nic Fit, starting with whether Nic Fit is a meta or anti-meta deck. Now, I believe at its core, Nic Fit is anti-meta: the interaction between Cabal Therapy and Veteran Explorer is what enables the deck to do so well in certain metas. However, that implies a few things about the meta: that the decks in the meta don't run lots of basics (like Miracles and some D&T do), that the decks in the meta can't reliably play around Veteran Explorer (i.e. Delver, Swords to Plowshares, etc.), and, to a much lesser extent, that we actually know what the key cards are for the meta decks (important, but should be second nature to anyone running Cabal Therapy).

Given that Delver has been the flavor of tempo for quite some time, Swords is the go-to removal for a variety of decks, and the current trend points to less greedy manabases (in particular Miracles and D&T), I believe that Veteran Explorer at this point is a liability, at least without a previously played Cabal Therapy backing it up. Powerful still, yet can easily blow up in our collective face.

Such a card would be fine at 2 to 3, but not a full 4-of. Of course, without the full playset, Cabal Therapy loses a lot of its appeal as an engine enabler.

This also means our secondary (or rather our now more reliable, yet less explosive) ramp source demands more attention. Since I prefer Deathrite Shaman due to its utility and cost-effectiveness, I'll be running more fetchlands than usual. As such, we have a greater access to cheap shuffle effects to abuse Top with, though this balances out with less Vets.

I'll probably continue the review of my thought process later, but right not I kinda want to get some sleep. Here's the final result thought.

3 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Eternal Witness
2 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Living Wish
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Council's Judgment
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Karakas
[----]
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Ethersworn Canonist

You're probably correct. I hate that this is what we've come to, but there it is.

[Tom4ik]

I played a bug version at my weekly last night and went 3-1 against, reanimator, black and taxes, burn and omni. lost to reanimator in a close game 3 where he had 1 turn to draw force and he did. My list:

2 bayou
1 underground sea
1 tropical island
2 creeping tar pit
2 island
2 swamp
2 forest
3 verdant catacombs
2 misty rainforest
3 polluted delta
1 phyrexian tower

4 veteran explorer
1 vendillion clique
1 grave titan

3 jace, the mind sculpter
3 liliana of the veil
1 garruk, primal hunter
4 cabal therapy
4 gitaxian probe
4 abrupt decay
3 pernicious deed
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
3 treasure cruise



Force maindeck was worrisome but with 3 cruise i figured the card disadvantage was fine. i boarded force out only 1 time but obviously my matchups where skewed that way.

Garruk will probably be replaced, but grave titan was fine in his role but the garruk was too slow.

treasure cruise was great. this deck also gets enough mana that you dont need to delve fully so in grindy matchups I played concentrate multiple times and that was fine.

this list is FAR from tuned but I like what it was able to do. I am not sure if therapy vet is the right package and may just switch to a deathrite control version but wanted to try vet a few times and see how it ran. I just think as the metagame becomes more midrange vet might not be a strong enough engine to justify the space but the effect is certainly powerful enough.

the SB was surgicals, negates, notion thiefs, scooze, a tusk and some other random 1 ofs.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

You're probably correct. I hate that this is what we've come to, but there it is.

Dont worry: we still have a niche as a G/x ramp control deck. Its just what we use as our primary ramp source has to change to suit the meta, as does our removal and threat suite.

To be honest, I came to this conclusion not by playing against a top legacy deck, but my friend's casual white weenie aggro. The double edge of cabal therapy hurts when it hits, regardless of what they can do with the mana.

I have no doubt that in time, manabases will become greedy again and we can exploit Vet once more :)

[thotcrime]

I guess my post got a bit buried under all the doom and gloom, so I'll instead seek some input on my SB.
As of now this is how it stands (I'm on Punishing Jund)

4 REB
2 Surgical
2 Choke
2 Slaughter Games
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse


I feel pretty good with this SB, but I feel like I could use more GY hate. Dredge or Reanimator will ream me for sure. Fuck, real estate is so tight with this deck!

[Ralf]

I guess my post got a bit buried under all the doom and gloom, so I'll instead seek some input on my SB.
As of now this is how it stands (I'm on Punishing Jund)

4 REB
2 Surgical
2 Choke
2 Slaughter Games
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse


I feel pretty good with this SB, but I feel like I could use more GY hate. Dredge or Reanimator will ream me for sure. Fuck, real estate is so tight with this deck!

Do you have a very precise idea of your local meta ?
If not you could use the primer to get some ideas.

From my perspective, I would lower the SB mana curve a bit. For example, Golgari charm should join the party, at least as a 1-of.

[Arianrhod]

Something of note. I have yet to actually test vs the new breed of BUG Delver that's arising with Cruise, but I went looking to see what they were cutting for the Cruises, and it looks like they're cutting Sylvan Library and the 2x Tombstalker/TNN slot for the 3x Cruises.

I'm not sure, but on paper, that actually looks GOOD for us. Their creature suite is now -just- 4/4/4 Delver/DRS/Goyf, with no big trump in either terms of protection or cmc (stalker is hella hard to Deed away). Additionally, while Cruise is obnoxious, I'd rather they Cruise than have an active Sylvan any day of the week.

Just food for thought.

[Ralf]

I played a bug version at my weekly last night and went 3-1 against, reanimator, black and taxes, burn and omni. lost to reanimator in a close game 3 where he had 1 turn to draw force and he did. My list:

2 bayou
1 underground sea
1 tropical island
2 creeping tar pit
2 island
2 swamp
2 forest
3 verdant catacombs
2 misty rainforest
3 polluted delta
1 phyrexian tower

4 veteran explorer
1 vendillion clique
1 grave titan

3 jace, the mind sculpter
3 liliana of the veil
1 garruk, primal hunter
4 cabal therapy
4 gitaxian probe
4 abrupt decay
3 pernicious deed
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
3 treasure cruise



Force maindeck was worrisome but with 3 cruise i figured the card disadvantage was fine. i boarded force out only 1 time but obviously my matchups where skewed that way.

Garruk will probably be replaced, but grave titan was fine in his role but the garruk was too slow.

treasure cruise was great. this deck also gets enough mana that you dont need to delve fully so in grindy matchups I played concentrate multiple times and that was fine.

this list is FAR from tuned but I like what it was able to do. I am not sure if therapy vet is the right package and may just switch to a deathrite control version but wanted to try vet a few times and see how it ran. I just think as the metagame becomes more midrange vet might not be a strong enough engine to justify the space but the effect is certainly powerful enough.

the SB was surgicals, negates, notion thiefs, scooze, a tusk and some other random 1 ofs.

After some brainstorming, you should try the following:
-1 Garruk PH
-1 Clique
+2 TNN

I don't like Creeping Tarpit in a NicFit shell, but well if it suits your playstyle.

This is what I would try:


2 bayou
2 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 island
2 swamp
1 forest
3 verdant catacombs
3 misty rainforest
3 polluted delta
1 phyrexian tower

3 veteran explorer
4 deathrite shaman
3 True name nemesis

3 jace, the mind sculpter
3 liliana of the veil
1 Garruk, Apex Predator

4 cabal therapy
4 abrupt decay
3 pernicious deed
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
3 dig through time

[Ralf]

Something of note. I have yet to actually test vs the new breed of BUG Delver that's arising with Cruise, but I went looking to see what they were cutting for the Cruises, and it looks like they're cutting Sylvan Library and the 2x Tombstalker/TNN slot for the 3x Cruises.

I'm not sure, but on paper, that actually looks GOOD for us. Their creature suite is now -just- 4/4/4 Delver/DRS/Goyf, with no big trump in either terms of protection or cmc (stalker is hella hard to Deed away). Additionally, while Cruise is obnoxious, I'd rather they Cruise than have an active Sylvan any day of the week.

Just food for thought.

I'll add that in a NicFit BUG shell, DTT is very appealing.
Let's crush some TC decks with a midrange shell packing DTT.

[thotcrime]

Do you have a very precise idea of your local meta ?
If not you could use the primer to get some ideas.

From my perspective, I would lower the SB mana curve a bit. For example, Golgari charm should join the party, at least as a 1-of.

Actually I'm really walking into the meta blind, it's been almost a year since I've played. Do you think Golgari Charm is better than Toxic Deluge?

I'm a bit worried about Tombstalker, my only real defense is Liliana and 1 Pulse (not counting going over the top with P Titan). Is 2 Pulse too much?

Also, can we briefly cover the correct calls for Slaughter Games? S&T, TES/ANT, Elves etc. Realllly don't want to botch one of those ;D

#rusty


edit: What are your thoughts on Leyline of the Void? It's allllmost out of Deed range and does a significant amount of work against much of the field, including most Delver variants (nullifies Threshold, Delve, and Tarmogoyf a teeny bit)

[Star|Scream]

Actually I'm really walking into the meta blind, it's been almost a year since I've played. Do you think Golgari Charm is better than Toxic Deluge?

I'm a bit worried about Tombstalker, my only real defense is Liliana and 1 Pulse (not counting going over the top with P Titan). Is 2 Pulse too much?

Also, can we briefly cover the correct calls for Slaughter Games? S&T, TES/ANT, Elves etc. Realllly don't want to botch one of those ;D

#rusty

I don't think you'll ever see a tombstalker as long as Treasure Cruise is legal.

[The Crow's Eye]

What's the reasoning behind the Scapeshift version playing a split of Wood Elves and Sakura-Tribe Elder, instead of a set of STE?

[thotcrime]

What's the reasoning behind the Scapeshift version playing a split of Wood Elves and Sakura-Tribe Elder, instead of a set of STE?

I don't play Scape but I'll take a shot.
1. Diversifies Zenith targets by CMC
2. STE works faster, but Elves stick around to A. chump block, B. leave his buddy behind after a Lili edict, C. attack
3. Elves can grab Bayou or Taiga

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Something of note. I have yet to actually test vs the new breed of BUG Delver that's arising with Cruise, but I went looking to see what they were cutting for the Cruises, and it looks like they're cutting Sylvan Library and the 2x Tombstalker/TNN slot for the 3x Cruises.

I'm not sure, but on paper, that actually looks GOOD for us. Their creature suite is now -just- 4/4/4 Delver/DRS/Goyf, with no big trump in either terms of protection or cmc (stalker is hella hard to Deed away). Additionally, while Cruise is obnoxious, I'd rather they Cruise than have an active Sylvan any day of the week.

Just food for thought.

Indeed: the less things that can swing through or over a 'needs to die' ramp source, the better for Vet-based lists. And Library is definitely worse than TC, especially considering that TC hinders their Goyf and DRS, albeit momentarily.

Granted, I'm still of the opinion that DRS and Delver make Vet difficult to use, but this overall looks good simply because of how much more effective our main removal (Deed/Decay) will be against these decks.

[Ralf]

Actually I'm really walking into the meta blind, it's been almost a year since I've played. Do you think Golgari Charm is better than Toxic Deluge?

I'm a bit worried about Tombstalker, my only real defense is Liliana and 1 Pulse (not counting going over the top with P Titan). Is 2 Pulse too much?

Also, can we briefly cover the correct calls for Slaughter Games? S&T, TES/ANT, Elves etc. Realllly don't want to botch one of those ;D

#rusty


edit: What are your thoughts on Leyline of the Void? It's allllmost out of Deed range and does a significant amount of work against much of the field, including most Delver variants (nullifies Threshold, Delve, and Tarmogoyf a teeny bit)

1) Calls for SLG

S&T -> Go for their fatties. Emrakul first, then Grisel. Reason behind is you lose much quicker against Emrakul than against Grisel.
TES -> Burning Wish
ANT -> TOA (Tendril of Agony) -> very few lists have another wincon, but if you feel TOA is not their only kill, go for IT.
Elves -> NO (Natural order), then Glimpse -> they might have too many BIG NO targets (progenitus, wurm 15/15, behemot...) so going after their fatties is useless.

2) Golgari charm vs Toxic deluge

Speed vs consistency.
For example, I lost multiple games against Elves because TD was not a golgari charm.
TD is only better in some corner cases, whereas golgari has a broader application.
Do not underestimate the "destroy target enchantment" ability.

I would replace the 4th AD by a golgari charm.

3) Leyline of the Void

I know for sure that BUG Shardless is/was playing a 1-of of LotV in the side.
Hey, why not. 3 gravehate cards in Legacy is a bare minimum.
I'll replace your 2nd pulse with this. You should expect a surge in "blue" because everyone seem to be hot about the new blue cantrip cards.

[thotcrime]

Christ, tonight made me remember why I stopped playing legacy: if it ain't blue, you probably ain't winning.

Round 1: Burn
Game 1 went long, but I got there with Thragtusk/Lili backup.
Game 2 I was down to 1 life, Deed and Tusk in hand, opp had Vortex in play and nothing in hand. Because I didn't RTFC, I played Tusk thinking I'd gain enough life to stabilize. I should have played Deed to take out the Vortex and survive another turn.
Game 3 opp had 2 Vortex in play, I swing with PTitan for 12 damage, at his upkeep he stacks 2 PoP on the Vortex triggers (which would have killed him) and I eat 16 damage. ;_;

Round 2: High Tide with Snapmage GY tricks
Game 1 I Thoughtseize and see a fuck ton of cantrips. He combos off while I feebly attempt to land a Huntmaster.
Game 2 I play REB on the wrong fucking card. Following turn I try to GSZ a Witness to Therapy away his Snapcaster (which apparently glues the deck together) and he combos off with the GSZ on stack. I had Abrupt Decay in hand which I should have held to respond to Snapmage trigger. In retrospect, I should have simply mulled into a Leyline of the Void. He couldn't function without his Snap backs.

I dropped at 0-2 because honestly I was just disappointed at my shit playing. It's also really demoralizing to sit across from your opponent while they vomit out a dozen blue cards and you have no interactions whatsoever. Solitaire, not magic.




I'd play BUG NicFit if I could afford all those blue lands. wahhhh

[Bertrand Hustle]

Christ, tonight made me remember why I stopped playing legacy: if it ain't blue, you probably ain't winning.

Round 1: Burn
Game 1 went long, but I got there with Thragtusk/Lili backup.
Game 2 I was down to 1 life, Deed and Tusk in hand, opp had Vortex in play and nothing in hand. Because I didn't RTFC, I played Tusk thinking I'd gain enough life to stabilize. I should have played Deed to take out the Vortex and survive another turn.
Game 3 opp had 2 Vortex in play, I swing with PTitan for 12 damage, at his upkeep he stacks 2 PoP on the Vortex triggers (which would have killed him) and I eat 16 damage. ;_;

Round 2: High Tide with Snapmage GY tricks
Game 1 I Thoughtseize and see a fuck ton of cantrips. He combos off while I feebly attempt to land a Huntmaster.
Game 2 I play REB on the wrong fucking card. Following turn I try to GSZ a Witness to Therapy away his Snapcaster (which apparently glues the deck together) and he combos off with the GSZ on stack. I had Abrupt Decay in hand which I should have held to respond to Snapmage trigger. In retrospect, I should have simply mulled into a Leyline of the Void. He couldn't function without his Snap backs.

I dropped at 0-2 because honestly I was just disappointed at my shit playing. It's also really demoralizing to sit across from your opponent while they vomit out a dozen blue cards and you have no interactions whatsoever. Solitaire, not magic.




I'd play BUG NicFit if I could afford all those blue lands. wahhhh

Your name is fucking brilliant

[Bobmans]

Christ, tonight made me remember why I stopped playing legacy: if it ain't blue, you probably ain't winning.

Still PFire Nic Fit is an awesome deck to play. Never give up. ;-)

I just completed collecting the cards and build a wishless BANZA list and was looking for advice to further tune it.
Running Gaddock Teeg, as suggested by Bob Huang, should be punishing the Dig Through Treasure Cruise hype so time for my foil japanese Teeg to kick some.
My meta will be full with combo and blue-based decks of all sorts and sounds.
I really like that Siege Rhino is a bit more aggresive then Thragtusk and that it costs 4 instead of 5.
As far as my equipment goes, is this the right configuration? Also Sword of Light and Shadow seems appealing as it is good against opposing Stoneforge decks. Getting a Gaddock Teeg equipped with this one versus Miracles is GG aswell.
I have done some testing with 4 DRS/ 3 VetEx and really like it. I will be running that main in PFire aswell.
Will i be missing Kitchen Finks vs Burn and UR Delver match-up?
Is a Living Wish package with Ethersworn Canonist, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Orzhof Pontif and/or Bojuka Bog better?

List:

4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Veteran Explorer
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Recurring Nightmare

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vindicate

2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacomb
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold

Sideboard:
1 Grave Titan
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Council's Judgment
1 Krosan Grip
2 Golgari Charm

[thotcrime]

Thanks for the encouragement (and the shoutout) ;D

I have to say I'm pretty intrigued by Deathrite Shaman (never played it). The discussion lately has been about reducing the focus on Vet, is this the solution?

1. Does it have a place in Punishing lists?

2. Is it too slow vs. fast combo?

3. Does DRS being in play ever prevent you from wanting to blow a Deed? I could see that being tricky.


Also about non-Red lists, do you find the lack of REB detrimental? I love that GW can pull Thune/Feeder out of nowhere, something that PFire doesn't really have access to.
I think before Jund Fit can ever be taken seriously as a competitive deck it needs to contain a similar combo, afaik there isn't one. That's probably why Scape and Thune have a leg up competitively speaking.

If you can't tell, I'm still sore from that fucking high tide matchup...

[Bobmans]

Thanks for the encouragement (and the shoutout) ;D

I have to say I'm pretty intrigued by Deathrite Shaman (never played it). The discussion lately has been about reducing the focus on Vet, is this the solution?

1. Does it have a place in Punishing lists?

2. Is it too slow vs. fast combo?

3. Does DRS being in play ever prevent you from wanting to blow a Deed? I could see that being tricky.



1. I have been running a 1/3 split between main and side instead of 3 Carpet of Flowers. It cannot fully replace those, but DRS is more flexible. The list was a bit slower after boarding, but did give another angle of attack. I think running a 3/4 split configuration is actually an improvement.

2. It will always be a weak spot, but with well timed discard/extraction effect you should be able to take it to the midgame. Huntmaster also helps here as it presents a solid clock. One time i even won after my opponent resolved a t2 Empty the Warrens with 12 or 14 tokens. I got a god hand with Veteran Explorer and a Phyrexian Tower from the top into a GSZ x=5 going for the Huntmaster on my turn 2. Also drew into PFire and had a Grove out with a mountain and a taiga.

3. DRS and Deed is akward, but when you need it it is better to loose DRS then loose yourself. Being able to recur it with Eternal Witness of Volrath's Stronghold is solid. Running 4 DRS also helps.

All in all i agree that PFire Nic Fit has a decent matchup against combo as was pointed out by HoneyT i believe. Haven't taken it to the real test and play a tournament with it tho (in this configuration). Just to many other decks i still have to/want to play.

Heres a list i thought up earlier today with a 3/4 split between vet and drs.


4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Maelstrom Pulse

3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk Relentless

1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire

SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast

[uncletiggy]

I'm currently on junk fit and I'd like some feedback on my list and any suggestions as to things I may be overlooking.

3 windswept heath
3 verdant catacombs
2 scrubland
2 bayou
2 savannah
2 forest
2 plains
2 swamp
2 phyrexian tower
1 karakas
1 dryad arbor
22 lands

4 veteran explorer
2 deathrite shaman
2 stoneforge mystic
1 scavenging ooze
1 gaddock teeg
1 strangleroot geist
1 reclamation sage
1 kitchen finks
2 seige rhino
1 restoration angel
1 thragtusk
1 shriekmaw
1 sigarda
1 grave titan
20 creatures

2 birthing pod
2 green suns zenith
1 top

4 cabal therapy
1 thought seize

1 path to exile
2 abrupt decay
1 toxic deluge
1 pernicious deed

1 jitte
1 batterskull
1 sword of fire and ice
1 lightning greaves
19 spells

Sb:
2 ashen rider
3 surgicals
1 thoughtseize
1 gaddock teeg
1 elspeth knight errant
1 garruk relentless
1 orzhov pontiff
1 toxic deluge
1 pernicious deed
1 krosan grip
1 abrupt decay
1 path to exile

Cards im unsure on: garruk, restoration angel, surgical extraction
Cards im considering: abyssal persecuter, eternal witness, rest in peace

Any thoughts or tweeks would be appreciated. I'm looking to play almost exclusively on the scg circut so a large diverse meta delver and miracles heavy.

[thotcrime]

I'm currently on junk fit and I'd like some feedback on my list and any suggestions as to things I may be overlooking.

Cards im considering: abyssal persecuter, eternal witness, rest in peace

Any thoughts or tweeks would be appreciated. I'm looking to play almost exclusively on the scg circut so a large diverse meta delver and miracles heavy.

1. While i appreciate a good toolbox, I think your creatures are sorta overloaded. 20 creatures and 4 ways to tutor them is nearly half your deck, something I don't agree with in a control list. I'd start by cutting the lowest impact creatures like Strangleroot, Reclamation Sage, 1 Siege Rhino, and maybe Shriekmaw. You may also relegate Gaddock Teeg and Kitchen Finks to the SB. I'm not sure about Rest Angel as she does very little by herself. You're right about needing a single Eternal Witness, she comes in quite handy when you need that PtE again (which I think is a great addition to this deck btw, sure go grab that basic you don't have friend!).

2. Tbh I think you may be straying too far from the core of the deck. 1 Top, 1 Deed, 2 GSZ just isn't enough. You have no way of digging for those cards, arguably the best cards in the deck. MB Deluge also isn't a good idea, think of all the combo decks that you just fold to with Deluge in hand.

3. Four equipment is excessive, I'd really reevaluate why SFM matters to the deck and go from there.

4. I'd cut the Arbor too, Deed and Deluge kill it then you're set back a turn.

5. Not sure why you chose 2 Phyrexian Tower with no Rector in the list. If you decide to go that route, I could see Rector + Pod doing some work together. Otherwise I'd consider cutting the Pods.

6. I can't comment on the SB as it's all very meta dependent, but it looks like you're trying to fit too many tricks into the pony.

7. 1 MB Thoughtseize doesn't make much sense to me, I'd either move it to SB or up the numbers.

Edit: RIP is counterproductive with Cabal Therapy and E Witness. Persecutor could be good but not likely good enough.

my $0.02

[Arianrhod]

@uncletiggy:

Rule #1 of Nic Fit: Dryad Arbor is not a card.

Manasources that die to Deed are bad, and while it does enable Zenith@0, you basically never want this effect because you're better off holding the Zenith to Z@1 for Explorer or DRS.

Cut it for a 3rd Bayou. Bayou is the most important land to have on turn 1, and you need to have specific color requirements in mind to not just run 3. Ideally you almost always want a Bayou in your opening hand because then you don't have to fetch one (exposing yourself to Stifle), and can cast both Explorer and Therapy. Something like Swamp/Forest, Bayou, splash land is the dream.

4 equips to 2 Stoneforges can't be right. Greaves is clearly the worst equip, followed by SoFI. I love me some SoFI, and I would run it in the sideboard, but not maindeck. Usually when you want SoFI, it's better than Jitte, so that's a good sideboard in/out. I would cut both from the main, though. (2 slots)

I don't like Strangleroot personally, but it might be alright. I dunno. Undecided on this guy.

No Eternal Witness? o.O

Ugh, Grave Titan.

Your spell suite is very odd. 1 Top is stone wrong. You need 3. Path is worse than Swords, even in Nic Fit (swordsing your own giant monster to gain life to race with is not out of the question), 1-of Thoughtseize is useless maindeck, and running any TS is a bad idea main atm because of the rise of Cruise making discard spells worse as a whole.

tl;dr:

-1 Greaves
-1 SoFI
-1 Thoughtseize
-1 Path to Exile
-1 Dryad Arbor

+2 Sensei's Divining Top
+2 Council's Judgment
+1 Bayou

RestoAngel is fine. It does get better if you find room for the E.Wit, but that's hard to do. My gut says that -1 Geist +1 Witness would be fine, because Geist is only a thing with Pod really, and I can't imagine a world wherein you would rather Pod for Geist than SFM. You can also choose to put in a Rector/Nightmare package (1 ofs), though I'm not sure where you'd find the space.

I would probably personally go -1 PhyTower +1 Volrath's Stronghold, -1 Grave Titan, +1 Primeval Titan to tie things together a bit more and simulate Nightmare without needing to take up the slots, but that's just my personal opinion on Grave Titan more than anything.

As for sideboard, I'd start by cutting the Surgicals and maxing on Thoughtseizes, and cutting the Path from the board for the 2nd (4th) Decay. I'm not thrilled with the 2nd Teeg or the pair of Ashen Riders.

[Bobmans]

Any thoughts or tweeks would be appreciated. I'm looking to play almost exclusively on the scg circut so a large diverse meta delver and miracles heavy.

As i am writing this the most answers are covered. However:
I really like this list (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20983-Deck-Nic-Fit-(GBx-Explorer-Zenith-Control)&p=797525&viewfull=1#post797525) played by Qweerios.
But change:

- 1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Gaddock Teeg

-1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Reclamation Sage (2)G is better then (1)WG and MAY destroy vs MUST destroy can be relevant in some situations.

- 1 Academy Rector
1 Siege Rhino

- 1 Recurring Nightmare
- 1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Pernicious Deed


As for the SB, you might want to check out Agent of Erebos instead of RiP, since you can fetch it with the Pod.
The rest is said and i have discussion points aswell.

Edit. So here it is:
this counts for a straight JUNK Stoneforge list (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28548-Primer-Deck-Nic-Fit&p=837768&viewfull=1#post837768). Changes until now: -1 Recurring Nightmare, +1 Scavenging Ooze and -1 Surgical Extraction, +1 Thoughtseize.

1. Thoughtseize vs Duress: It doens't lose life which is relevant right now, but is losing the ability to discard creatures more relevant?

2. Surgical Extraction vs Extirpate vs not at all?: I always like the extraction effects in PFire Nic Fit together with TS, and Slaughter Games. But losing life is a thing right now and being split second on Extirpate might be better. But as said, maybe completely remove it for something else?

3. 3x Thalia in the SB: is it good enough (vs Combo)?

4. Vindicate vs Maelstrom Pulse: I was playing Vindicate, but there where situations that i wanted to remove 2 Pithing Needles or 3! Monastery Swiftspears. On the other hand, how relevant is instant speed and it being able to target lands.

5. Living Wish vs more business: This one has been bothering me for a while. I am running straight JUNK Nic Fit with a Stoneforge package, which feels very consistent, but what about having utility creatures on the board along with it?

6. Sun Titan (and Grave Titan) vs Primeval Titan: Being green and able to dig up the Two Towers is big, but Sun Titan and Pernicious Deed or Eternal Witness is soo awesome. Against grave hate or S&T i swap it with Grave Titan.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I'm currently on junk fit and I'd like some feedback on my list and any suggestions as to things I may be overlooking.

4 windswept heath
4 verdant catacombs
1 scrubland
2 bayou
2 savannah
2 forest
2 plains
2 swamp
1 phyrexian tower
1 volrath's stronghold
1 karakas
22 lands

Reason for changes: I consider 8 fetches the absolute minimum for running Deathrite Shaman, as this is optimal for a turn 2 ramp. As others have said, Dryad Arbor is bad for us: while it does ramp, it dies to just about anything. Cutting a Phyrexian Tower for Volrath's Stronghold is really good, especially if you choose to run Primeval Titan over Grave Titan.

4 veteran explorer
2 deathrite shaman
1 scavenging ooze
1 gaddock teeg
1 reclamation sage
2 eternal witness
2 thragtusk
1 sigarda
1 primeval titan
15 creatures

Reason for changes: Just noticed you have an awful lot of life gain here. Which isn't bad per se, but you could do much more with more traditional control elements. Teeg is good as a 1-of main, but I recommend finding room in the SB for a second copy, or at least find room for a Sylvan Safekeeper or some Mother of Runes to protect him when you need to.

And I'm definitely the black sheep on this one, but to hell with Siege Rhino: stick with Thragtusk.

4 green suns zenith
3 top

Reason for changes: An active Top can make or break this deck, and you weren't exactly running a curve fit for GSZ (even before changes, your only 4-drops to Pod into/out of were 2-of Siege Rhino). Besides, the only creatures that you couldn't GSZ for were Stoneforge and Shriekmaw, and since I suggest cutting both (SFM is good, but felt a little tacked on in this list), this open you up to a much more reliable GSZ toolbox.

4 cabal therapy

Reason for changes: It just seems random, especially with a full set of Therapy.

2 council's judgment
3 abrupt decay
3 swords to plowshares
1 Toxic Deluge
4 pernicious deed
24 spells

Reason for changes: Like I mentioned before, the SFM package felt tacked on, so instead of trying to fit it in, I'd go ahead and cut the equipment and SFM out. This opens up a few slots, allowing you to run the full set of Deed (a must do from my experience).

As far as white removal goes, 2 Council's Judgment is my preferred setup, but 3 Swords to Plowshares may be a necessity depending on how big Marit Lage is in your meta. Luckily you've got plenty of room now that the deck has been trimmed up

sideboard: not gonna touch as this is all meta dependent: just make sure your deck is legal if you decide to implement the suggested changes.

Any thoughts or tweeks would be appreciated. I'm looking to play almost exclusively on the scg circut so a large diverse meta delver and miracles heavy.

[Qweerios]

@Bobmans,

If you are still interested in Junk Pod decks, it is pretty much the only Nic Fit deck I have little faith left in. I have been putting up results and constantly tweaking and testing Junk Pod during spare time. It is definitely the closest competitive deck containing Explorer I have played so far since the end of the RUG/Maverick era 2 years ago (AKA: Pre-Griselbrand). Here my updated list and some explanations:


4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Veteran Explorer

3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg

1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Orzhov Pontiff

1 Murderous Redcap
1 Restoration Angel

1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Abrupt Decay

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize

3 Birthing Pod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains

Sideboard
2 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Engineered Plague
2 Choke
2 Liliana of the Veil


First and foremost, Explorers are down to 1 copy. I started by cutting them down to 3 copies, then 2 copies for a while, and eventually it became a singleton. You never want more than 1 Trigger in this deck and regular ramp through Arbor/DRS is generally better. Explorer is 95% dead without Therapy and counting on a Pod to sacrifice it is generally too slow or win-more. The days where Mongoose and Goyf had to swing into Explorer are over and now all we see are flying Delvers, unblockable Nemesis, Deathrites chipping at your life total (and exiling therapies making Explorer worst). Our bad matchups become worst with more Explorers (Miracle, SnT, other various decks playing basic lands) while our good matchups aren't much better with additional copies. Two copies works fine but as far as T1 plays go, I find Thoughtseize to be both more powerful and synergistic, which leads me to:

4 Thoughtseize mainboard instead of sideboard because no matter how good of a player you are, discarding 2-3 target cards from an opponent with 2 cards and going off is better than missing a blind therapy. This card increases your odds of a blowout early game and adds a lot of explosiveness to the deck which is severely lacks in most other versions. Opening a game with a TS or a dork is about as good as it gets for our color combination and it makes the subsequent turn much stronger as we get to explode with discard spells, ramp up with our single Explorer and/or fetch a Batterskull via SFM and laugh as our opponent wonders if he should remove it because we will might have 5 lands the following turn (if we don't already do on T2-3). G1 against combo decks is also much better now that we have access to 4 additional discard spells as we no longer have to wait for an educated guess, we can simply go for what we want gone. Along with excessive graveyard hate and Teeg mainboard, Storm isn't so bad now.

Kitchen Finks got the axe because it is simply a bad Legacy card. Unlike modern, life isn't treasured as much and GY hate is prevalent. A 3/2 body for 3 is also underwhelming. Finks is strictly a Pod/Therapy creature just like Wall of Blossoms is except that it grants you life and a sub-par body rather than an additional card. They both have their pros and cons but I think Blossoms is a bit better because of its ease of access, its larger defensive body, and lower mana cost which increases the synergy with Therapy and Pod altogether.

I haven't tested Siege Rhino yet so I can't make a statement about it now. So far I am not impressed by the card because we are paying 3 additional mana for a Goyf with trample and an irrelevant ability. Even if it were 3 mana cheaper It probably wouldn't even see much play in aggressive decks that actually care about its ability.

I am not a fan of Pernicious Deed in this version. Yes it can be a blowout against certain decks but we are not building a board to destroy it. I would play mainboard Liliana over Deed any day of the week in this deck. The card that shines the most out of the board is Liliana because it will always land on T2 and cause serious pain. It also smooths variance by ditching our extra lands and discard spells to her +1 ability while our opponent is usually getting rid of gas. The next change I was actually considering to make was to cut 1 Pod and 1 fetch for 2 copies of Lily mainboard. Lily is also a great tool against our bad matchups as it gives us a constant flow of disruption against combo decks, it answers Nemesis, and gives a headache SnT and Miracle players all around. Additional Lilianas would also free up SB space for another Needle perhaps as it is extremely good against our worst matchups (names Top, Jace, Thespian Stage, Sneak Attack, Symbiote).

Although this is a Pod deck, it is a GSZ deck first. Our disruption is black and our board is green. Pod is like the Jace of our deck, it is there simply for value but we rarely actually win with it. The discard and the GSZ are like the counters and the brainstorms of our deck and it allows us to play our Goyfs and Stoneforges.

[Cliq]

Is no one running the BUG pod version of Nic Fit anymore? I've been running it in person and on cockatrice for a while and like it a lot. It sort of rolls over and dies game 1 to combo sometimes, but is usually fine post-board, and actually feels slightly favored vs stuff like Reanimator and S&S. The MU I actually have the most trouble with for some reason is Death & Taxes. Deed usually comes down too late to matter. My list is basically Sveinung's list from GP Paris with a couple changes. I'm playing around with Meddling Mage added to the board, mostly because it's a blue card for Force against combo that happens to also be good against decks like Miracles, but I haven't played with it enough to know if it's a good addition yet.

1 Grave Titan
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Acidic Slime
4 Baleful Strix
3 Birthing Pod
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Murderous Redcap
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thragtusk
3 Veteran Explorer

2 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Island

Sideboard:
2 Envelop
4 Force of Will
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Meddling Mage
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Savannah
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

[uncletiggy]

Its ironic that the stoneforge package is under fire. To be honest when I started brewing the list I was looking primarily to build around stoneforge and grave titan as my experience with playing the rock most games came down to a bottleneck on mana and the nic fit shell seemed to solve that issue while simultaneously making the combo matchup worse which is the reason for the misers copy of Ts main. The only equipment im not sold on is greaves which is functionally there for two reasons to protect teeg from spot removal when he matters similarly to running the safekeeper as well as too haste my bombs specifically gravetitan. If sofi goes it would be for a light and shadow as im primarily a stoneforge deck at heart. I think at its heart the deck is meant to play a midrange game more closely associated to the rock and less of a control game. The manabase is certainly not correct I started six duals six fetch six basic just to test and see where I need to be. The lack of graveyard interactions is a nod to the rest of the meta moving further down the path of depending on it and expecting a surge of hate cards. Ive only played a handful of games versus miracles and my opponent was always overloaded on threats to answer. The giest is a nod to jace in testing I wanted a hasted walker killer that pods well and carrys a stick pretty well. I currently dont own judgements but plan on picking up three just to have. So far im thinking I want one more top in the list for certain more time will tell maybe im luck sacing but manipulation has not been an issue. Thanks for the feed back everyone!

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Its ironic that the stoneforge package is under fire. To be honest when I started brewing the list I was looking primarily to build around stoneforge and grave titan as my experience with playing the rock most games came down to a bottleneck on mana and the nic fit shell seemed to solve that issue while simultaneously making the combo matchup worse which is the reason for the misers copy of Ts main. The only equipment im not sold on is greaves which is functionally there for two reasons to protect teeg from spot removal when he matters similarly to running the safekeeper as well as too haste my bombs specifically gravetitan. If sofi goes it would be for a light and shadow as im primarily a stoneforge deck at heart. I think at its heart the deck is meant to play a midrange game more closely associated to the rock and less of a control game. The manabase is certainly not correct I started six duals six fetch six basic just to test and see where I need to be. The lack of graveyard interactions is a nod to the rest of the meta moving further down the path of depending on it and expecting a surge of hate cards. Ive only played a handful of games versus miracles and my opponent was always overloaded on threats to answer. The giest is a nod to jace in testing I wanted a hasted walker killer that pods well and carrys a stick pretty well. I currently dont own judgements but plan on picking up three just to have. So far im thinking I want one more top in the list for certain more time will tell maybe im luck sacing but manipulation has not been an issue. Thanks for the feed back everyone!

Geist is a good Jace Killer, but imo Thragtusk is better. Not only does it leave a body behind even if they exile or bounce it, but it has applicqtions outside of pw killing.

[Bobmans]

Thank you Qweerios for the elaboration. I really like the Nic Fit archetype as a whole and am switching between builds a lot. BUG/JUNK pod, PFire, Wish(less), Rector, etc and currently i am attracted by playing the JUNK colors for three reasons: Stoneforge Mystic, Sigarda and Gaddock Teeg. And to a lesser extent Sun Titan + Pernicious Deed/Eternal Witness shenanigans.

Just going to brainstorm a bit:
I played a list last monday (the one i posted earlier) against UR SwiftCruise and Goblins and won both matches 2-1 (not with ease, but slow and steady). Both of them where at the hands of some ramp/removal + Batterskull (lifegain, vigilance) or Sigarda + PDeeds softlock. So i am starting to believe that the JUNK colors are currently pretty strong being able to beat the SwiftCruise hype, but needing some slight adjustement against the rest of the meta being Miracles, Patriot, (death)Stoneblade, Dredge, Reanimate, S&T, Storm and Painter as the most usual suspects.

As far as Living Wish, Birthing Pod or more GSZ + Business goes, it does not matter to me to much. Although Birthing Pod is the closest thing to Survival of the Fittest (nostalgia). But for now i will settle for 4x GSZ and 4x SDT, 0 Wish and 0 Pod. Also i will keep running Siege Rhino, just because it is JUNK coloured anyway, costs 4 and carries equipment better then Thragtusk. Although the LtB trigger is very relevant vs StP.
(If you choose to run 2 Thragtusk, then why not just a 1/1 split between them?).

You made me wonder about Pernicious Deed in this build. With DRS, Jitte, Teeg, Germ, etc all being CMC =< 2, do i really want to blow up the entire field including my own? I know that resolving a Sun Titan or a Sigarda as a follow-up (or before) makes it that it does not matter, but how more often will you have a board state where you cant afford to loose Jitte, BS or DRS? So maybe i will just settle for 3 Thoughtseize, Duress or Inqusition of Kozilek instead (a total of 6 with a 3/3 split between the board and main). And i like the idea of Liliana of the Veil, but what i dont like is her hitting my own hand in the process and losing all reactive spells. Are singletons of Garruk Relentless or Sorin, lord of innistrad good, or tooo cute?

So i am thinking about running:

3 Pernicious Deed ??
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Veteran Explorer I still really like the card, but DRS is more flexible. Plus with a GSZ and a Therapy at hand you can always T2 into a Vet and keep mana open for a Stoneforge or a Abrupt Decay. So basicly with GSZ you have 6 copies in the deck.
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan If not running PDeeds, then PrimeTime gets promoted.

2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savannah Although 1 might seem fine to.
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacomb
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold

Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
2 Council's Judgment
1 Sword of fire and Ice
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Liliana of the Veil

[uncletiggy]

@ bobmans
I think cutting deeds altogether if thats the route you decide to go could warrent a 3/1or even 2/2 split between top and sylvan library for raw card advantage. Im also thinking the nic forge list are headed a more aggressive route and forcing your opponent to have an answer or fall too far behind vs playing the control deck in many matchups.

[Bobmans]

@ bobmans
I think cutting deeds altogether if thats the route you decide to go could warrent a 3/1or even 2/2 split between top and sylvan library for raw card advantage. Im also thinking the nic forge list are headed a more aggressive route and forcing your opponent to have an answer or fall too far behind vs playing the control deck in many matchups.

If i would remove the Deeds then that surely is an idea. Let's say i do i could potentially swap a Savannah for a Dryad Arbor. And would also have to rethink Golgari Charm as it hurts myself aswell and go for Zealous Persecution and running Krosan Grip might be a consideration to since i would loose the destroy enchantment effect and split second might be handy vs Omniscience/Miracles. So then i would go for something like:

Mainboard
-1 Savannah
-3 Pernicious Deed
-1 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Sylvan Library
3 Thoughtseize
1 Dryad Arbor

Sideboards
2 Duress or Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Council's Judgment
1 Krosan Grip
1 Sword of fire and Ice
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Liliana of the Veil


Edit1: The Rock players are trying out Spirit of the Labyrinth which seems pretty bonkers against like every blue based list (especially against UR SwiftCruise and reanimate). Maybe i will swap Thalia or Liliana with those.

Edit2: Dryad Arbor seems bad actually. Going with a lot of white i might just want to keep hold on that Savannah.

Edit3: I still have trouble thinking about not playing PDeeds. On one hand they might be to slow for the current meta. On the other hand they can act as a panic button and put's soo much pressure on the opponents board and him looking for ways to play around it.

[uncletiggy]

Dryad arbor is my 61st card I like it as a fetchable body to voltron up. Toxic deluge is a really good card to consider in the main or board as a 1-2 of if you drop the deeds it plays much nicer with equipement. While being able to hit grislebees or the flying spagetti monster on occasion. After everyones suggestions im going - restoration angel - 1 explorer -1 tower +1 volrath +1 top +1 zenith and switching the jitte with the decay in the board for now. Still undecided on finks vs e witness I think switching those two is the right call. Also not sure if the tower switch is correct without changing the titans but I really really like grave titan.

[Redkid43]

So I decided to build this brew of Nic Fit today. It all started when I wanted to try out Siege Rhino in Legacy, and I knew right away that I wanted to play it with Explorer.

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Wall of Blossoms
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Wood Elves
1 Restoration Angel
1 Siege Rhino
1 Academy Rector
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thragtusk
1 Acidic Slime
1 Grave Titan

2 Abrupt Decay
1 Diabolic Intent
3 Birthing Pod
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Green sun's Zenith

3 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath

Sideboard
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge
3 Golgari Charm
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Bojuka Bog

I got a good hand one game of turn 2 Rhino off of Explorer, Tower and Therapy taking Force. I wanted to see if Restoration Angel was any good here, considering the lifegain cards and value it gets with Recurring Nightmare if it is in your grave (which, the one game where it happened, was absolutely insane).

I don't know if the manabase is okay or not, but it's been fine in the games I tested with this build.

My sideboard is probably a mess.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[The Crow's Eye]

I'm bound to the Jund colors at the hip, much as Kibler is to Naya. Would it behoove Jund to pursue a Punishing Nic Fit build on the deck, or should it shift gears for a Birthing Pod build?

[Bobmans]

I'm bound to the Jund colors at the hip, much as Kibler is to Naya. Would it behoove Jund to pursue a Punishing Nic Fit build on the deck, or should it shift gears for a Birthing Pod build?

Within the JUND colors Punishing Fires or Scapewish are currently the decks to go to. Personally i really like PFire. But i think right now it is better to place your bets on JUNK. And Birthing Pod might be just a bit to slow. Currently to only Pod lists that keeps showing up in T8/16's is BUG Pod.

There was discussion about JUND POD, but it stranded since red lacks a solid CMC 2 creature to fill the curve. BUG has Baleful Strix and JUNK has Stoneforge Mystic . The closest thing i found was Sparkmage Apprentice. If only it where to deal 2 damage... If i would to test JUND POD right now (and taking Qweerios his input in account) i would go with:

1 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Sparkmage Apprentice
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
1 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Birthing Pod
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Punishing Fire Sure why not just test it anyway then.

2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacomb
2 Wooded Foothills


But i don't think it would work anyway... Also maybe it's wrong to try to play PFire in a Pod build.

As for the junK build, i think that Toxic Deluge is on the same path as PDeeds and Golgari Charm. So i would rather play Council's Judgement instead to get rid of Griselbrand, Emrakul, Prognetius or a (greaves equipped) Blightsteel Colossus.

[Svknoe]

How capable are we of running 4 Treasure Cruise in BUG decks? Caleb Durward posted a list with it on channel fireball yesterday. I am interested in trying to play something similar, as I like drawing cards.

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-weapon-cruising-for-a-brewsing/

Lands
3 x Tropical Island
2 x Underground Sea
3 x Bayou
3 x Verdant Catacombs
1 x Phyrexian Tower
3 x Forest
1 x Swamp
2 x Island
4 x Misty Rainforest

Creatures
4 x Baleful Strix
1 x Vendilion Clique
1 x Grave Titan
4 x Veteran Explorer
2 x Scavenging Ooze
1 x Consecrated Sphinx

Noncreature Spells
2 x Abrupt Decay
2 x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 x Sensei's Divining Top
1 x Ponder
4 x Treasure Cruise
4 x Cabal Therapy
4 x Brainstorm
4 x Force of Will
3 x Pernicious Deed

Sideboard
3 x Thoughtseize
3 x Nihil Spellbomb
1 x Vendilion Clique
2 x Negate
2 x Engineered Plague
1 x Darkblast
1 x Thragtusk
1 x Abrupt Decay
1 x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

[Arianrhod]

How capable are we of running 4 Treasure Cruise in BUG decks? Caleb Durward posted a list with it on channel fireball yesterday. I am interested in trying to play something similar, as I like drawing cards.

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-weapon-cruising-for-a-brewsing/

Lands
3 x Tropical Island
2 x Underground Sea
3 x Bayou
3 x Verdant Catacombs
1 x Phyrexian Tower
3 x Forest
1 x Swamp
2 x Island
4 x Misty Rainforest

Creatures
4 x Baleful Strix
1 x Vendilion Clique
1 x Grave Titan
4 x Veteran Explorer
2 x Scavenging Ooze
1 x Consecrated Sphinx

Noncreature Spells
2 x Abrupt Decay
2 x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 x Sensei's Divining Top
1 x Ponder
4 x Treasure Cruise
4 x Cabal Therapy
4 x Brainstorm
4 x Force of Will
3 x Pernicious Deed

Sideboard
3 x Thoughtseize
3 x Nihil Spellbomb
1 x Vendilion Clique
2 x Negate
2 x Engineered Plague
1 x Darkblast
1 x Thragtusk
1 x Abrupt Decay
1 x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

This seems to be how the entire format is heading, and I do not like it. This skirts perilously close to the territory we've mentioned with BUG Nic Fit where you start with

4 Explorer
4 Baleful Strix
4 Therapy
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe

And you find yourself wondering -- so, I'm drawing everything.....but how exactly do I win with all of these cards in my hand?

This Cruise arms race that legacy is in right now is leading many a false conclusion, in my opinion. Treasure Cruise is leading to the philosophy of a cancer: drawing cards for drawing cards' sake. Too many are forgetting that drawing cards will not win you a game: only what you are doing with them.

[Tom4ik]

I have been playing 3 treasure cruise in my BUG list. 3 jace, 3 lily. 3 treasure cruise have been amazing. I am also running 4 fow main which I know most ppl on this thread dont like but I also think it evens up the the combo match. with the probes/therapy and lily getting the handsize down having fow for the top deck bombs has been really strong.

The biggest plus with cruise in nic fit is that we dont need to delve fully very often so even a 4 or 5 card delve is fine. I have been playing Grave titan and a couple of tusk as my win cons as well as tar pits. Not in love with the list yet but has been preforming well albeit only over 3 weeklies.

[The Crow's Eye]

Thinking more about Punishing Jund Nic Fit, would it simply behoove the deck to bulk up on its best threats--2 ofs for Huntmaster, Thraggy, and a Thrun plus a dragon? Also, does Tarmogoyf have a place in the Jund builds? I mean, it could get big...but it could get swept in by your deeds as well.

[Svknoe]

This seems to be how the entire format is heading, and I do not like it. This skirts perilously close to the territory we've mentioned with BUG Nic Fit where you start with

4 Explorer
4 Baleful Strix
4 Therapy
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe

And you find yourself wondering -- so, I'm drawing everything.....but how exactly do I win with all of these cards in my hand?

This Cruise arms race that legacy is in right now is leading many a false conclusion, in my opinion. Treasure Cruise is leading to the philosophy of a cancer: drawing cards for drawing cards' sake. Too many are forgetting that drawing cards will not win you a game: only what you are doing with them.

I would like to be able to play that core of spells. Even though I am tempted to want to draw cards for its own sake, I completely agree that it has to lead somewhere. Drawing cards can be very powerful, though, so it is hard to judge. I have done some testing today with that 4x cruise list and liked it so far.

[whatwas]

I see a lot of talk about treasure cruise in every deck. But no one talking about hooting mandrills, I might run a few in my BUG walkers deck since it cost 1-6 and is safe from your typical deed activation. My walkers games go long and I always have a huge graveyard before I know it, that seems to do nothing but grow the tarmogoyf.

[Bobmans]

Thinking more about Punishing Jund Nic Fit, would it simply behoove the deck to bulk up on its best threats--2 ofs for Huntmaster, Thraggy, and a Thrun plus a dragon? Also, does Tarmogoyf have a place in the Jund builds? I mean, it could get big...but it could get swept in by your deeds as well.

I have tried running a singleton Goyf in the PFire build,.. and it sucked. Early game you are spending to setup your manabase and playing removal to gain board control. In that stage i was holding back Goyf cus i had better stuf to do then cast a 3/4 vanilla. At the time i wanted creatures there i was going for different ones. Scavenging Ooze, Huntmaster, etc. Goyf is efficient, but you do not have control over it's P/T. Where the other creatures all provide utility. As far as Hooting Mandrills goes, i think that Nic Fit lists are as thight as they are already and both Thragtusk, Siege Rhino and Thrun are better, because that's the spot he will be fillin.

As for Treasure Cruise, i think that THE list for this card to be at would be BUG Veteran Walkers. Lots of removal, so a 3 card refuel would be really strong.

[Ralf]

I see a lot of talk about treasure cruise in every deck. But no one talking about hooting mandrills, I might run a few in my BUG walkers deck since it cost 1-6 and is safe from your typical deed activation. My walkers games go long and I always have a huge graveyard before I know it, that seems to do nothing but grow the tarmogoyf.

My guess is: you should just play TNN instead of Hooting Mandrills.

[Bobmans]

I would really like to know more about this deranged hermit polukranos deck.

This was placed in T32 Ovino Italy. Does anyone know?

[XdeckX]

As for Treasure Cruise, i think that THE list for this card to be at would be BUG Veteran Walkers. Lots of removal, so a 3 card refuel would be really strong.
It could very well be if not for 2 things. 1. The available slots are pretty tight. I always had allot of difficulty sideboarding without wrecking the gameplan. 2. veteran walkers never doesnt really need to refuel as it's pretty hard to be empty-handed from my experience.

That said I do feel it has a home in veteran walker in the Gitaxian Probe slot. yes you loose the nice interaction between Therapy and Probe but that doesnt really come up that often. Drawing 3 cards is always better than drawing 1. The only thing it that TC would be more midgame oriented where prode is available from turn 1.

[Arianrhod]

This was placed in T32 Ovino Italy. Does anyone know?

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=8079&iddeck=58879

Probably something like that, just updated for 2 years of new cards. Thiel has a long, successful history of playing junk-midrange style Nic Fit lists. It would be nice to see the actual list, but I think the odds of that happening are unfortunately low -- Thiel has never posted on Source (to my knowledge), and Ovino is notoriously bad at posting decklists.

-----

I do agree that Cruise likely has a home here. It's hard to escape the allure of Ancestral Recall in the "big mana" decks that can cast it (BUG Nic Fits and 12post) -- because even if the format shifts to aggressively hate graveyards (hi RIP Miracles), we can still just cast the damn thing unlike 'normal' decks where it just becomes FoW fodder. The problem is balancing the Things That Kill Them with the Things That Let Them Not Kill You.

Sagu Mauler may be the answer. More on this later today.

As for MAH DRILLS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzqdh_391hA), I can't think of a world where we want to be casting a 4/4 instead of drawing 3. Drills may have viability in nonblue Nic Fits, but he for sure isn't good enough in blue. For white, I can't think of a time I would ever play Drills over Rhino. Red, though...red, you're talking. That's a possibility. Red doesn't have a lot of great creature options to begin with, and a 4/4 trample for ~2-3 might be good enough to at least consider.

[Bobmans]

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=8079&iddeck=58879
MAH DRILLS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzqdh_391hA)

Thnx and lol.

Concerning Meh drills, i don't see what i would want to cut out of a pfire list for those. I would even go with more Huntmasters instead of these monkey's.

I might put together a Walkers list next week and see where it goes. Sideboard plan vs combo etc is te swap AD, Blood and PDeeds for a FoW/Counterbalance package. First draft would be:


4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix

3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Treasure Cruise

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Innocent Blood

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Karn/Garruk

3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacomb
3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower

Board
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Notion Thief
2 Ensnaring Bridge

[XdeckX]

[list]
Eventhough both Karn Liberated and Garruk Apex Predator are excellent cards I found them really difficult to cast when I last played Veteran Walkers. In fact I boarded the Karns out almost every game. Yes you have the possibility of ramping with Veteran but still 7 mana turned out to be allot when I played it.
I really liked the Kiora I played since that stalls and just flatout wins games when you get to ultimate her.

But perhaps the Treasure Cruise gives you enough possibilities to get to enough mana to make it work. It wasnt available last time ;)

[Arianrhod]

Eventhough both Karn Liberated and Garruk Apex Predator are excellent cards I found them really difficult to cast when I last played Veteran Walkers. In fact I boarded the Karns out almost every game. Yes you have the possibility of ramping with Veteran but still 7 mana turned out to be allot when I played it.
I really liked the Kiora I played since that stalls and just flatout wins games when you get to ultimate her.

But perhaps the Treasure Cruise gives you enough possibilities to get to enough mana to make it work. It wasnt available last time ;)

I've tested a ton with Apex Predator because I desperately wanted it to be good enough.

It isn't. Save yourself the time.

[Ralf]

Eventhough both Karn Liberated and Garruk Apex Predator are excellent cards I found them really difficult to cast when I last played Veteran Walkers. In fact I boarded the Karns out almost every game. Yes you have the possibility of ramping with Veteran but still 7 mana turned out to be allot when I played it.
I really liked the Kiora I played since that stalls and just flatout wins games when you get to ultimate her.

But perhaps the Treasure Cruise gives you enough possibilities to get to enough mana to make it work. It wasnt available last time ;)

As I've played veteran walkers at least twice in sanctioned events, I can tell you that leaving home without any surgical effect or another way to deal with punishing fire (Karn can at least "eat" the groves) is quite dangerous. The entire deck folds to an unchecked PF...

The same could be said about man's land.

[Surfkatt]

Still playing Scapewish and I am still very happy with the list. Running it at a GPT this weekend so expect results, good or bad. Made a few changes to the SB namely the sudden shocks. These are experimental BUT I really wanted something versus infect and elves. Infect can never beat the card and it can really disrupt the elves card advantage engine. It also time walks the Stoneforge+Batterskull combo and is an uncounterable way to kill delvers (not that we needed the help here). I have never wished for a deluge and as such I feel like it is pretty unneeded. Need to kill angels? Pulse. Need to kill a Griselbrand? Blood. Need to kill a progenitus? Wipe and blood or race it.


3 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Wood Elves
1 Scavenging Ooze


2 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Scapeshift
3 Sensei's Divining Top


3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Verdant Catacombs


SIDEBOARD
2 Sudden Shock
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
2 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
1 Scapeshift
3 Slaughter Games
3 Thoughtseize

[Ralf]

Still playing Scapewish and I am still very happy with the list. Running it at a GPT this weekend so expect results, good or bad. Made a few changes to the SB namely the sudden shocks. These are experimental BUT I really wanted something versus infect and elves. Infect can never beat the card and it can really disrupt the elves card advantage engine. It also time walks the Stoneforge+Batterskull combo and is an uncounterable way to kill delvers (not that we needed the help here). I have never wished for a deluge and as such I feel like it is pretty unneeded. Need to kill angels? Pulse. Need to kill a Griselbrand? Blood. Need to kill a progenitus? Wipe and blood or race it.


How is your infect MU, right now: Horrible, right ?

I think I wished for Toxic D. once last year, against fish. It saved my ass ! But this was when TNN was everywhere.
You might be right with sudden shocks, elves MU is pretty miserable with Scape.

[Surfkatt]

How is your infect MU, right now: Horrible, right ?

I think I wished for Toxic D. once last year, against fish. It saved my ass ! But this was when TNN was everywhere.
You might be right with sudden shocks, elves MU is pretty miserable with Scape.

I need to test the infect matchup a little more but it does not seem fantastic. Abrupt decay helps and Deed is amazing but other than that we have to hope for good cabals. Same with elves.

TNN seems to be nowhere to be seen and even if he does show up, I can hard cast Massacre :P

[uncletiggy]

@ bobmans I believe vraska is underratted in bug walkers id lose the 7 drop walkers for a vraska and a kiora they arent on the same power level as karn but signifigantly more castable

[EpicLevelCommoner]

So I'm trying to determine sideboard strategies for my Lone Vet Junk Fit list (thank to Qweerios for suggesting going down to 1 Vet), and I'm stumped how I would side against Tin Fins.

Either I side in 3 Thalia or 3 Linvala (cutting Decay since, well, Decay doesn't help much against those decks). Thalia slows the deck down and comes down faster most of the time, but Linvala essentially stops the entire deck from functioning, kicking Bargainbrand and his small Children right in their activated abilities.

What would yall suggest?

[Arianrhod]

Been brewing with Treasure Cruise (Boat Brew? idk) all day, and I have come to a very important question:

We can play Harmonize. We've been able to play Harmonize for years. A lot of us have tried Harmonize and found it to be a miserable card.

So, why exactly are we all afire about Cruising now? All too often it's just going to be Harmonize.

I don't know. I mean, I'm a vintage aficionado. I won my Recall in a tournament. I've resolved it quite a few times, and I know how good it feels. I just look at Cruise and shake my head. Maybe if Harmonize had a track record of being playable, then sure, whatever. As it is now, though, I just can't get behind it. I'd rather try to make Gifts work.

[uncletiggy]

Hell fact or fiction seems just as good as harmonize and its not good enough either in bug lists and neither requires you to remove your reusuables fact or fiction can even add to the pile of reusuables and is not subject to things like chains or spirit or notion thief.

[Tom4ik]

This card will not be harmonize as often as you think. I have been on it for 2 weeks (so not super long granted) and the first one is very easy to play for 1 mana. If you play one for 4 mana harmonize thats fine because in that instance you have 4 mana and are drawing 3. I dont think treasure cruise is an auto include so i wouldnt fault anybody for not playing it but i have found it to be just busted in my testing so far.

[Arianrhod]

Hell fact or fiction seems just as good as harmonize and its not good enough either in bug lists and neither requires you to remove your reusuables fact or fiction can even add to the pile of reusuables and is not subject to things like chains or spirit or notion thief.

I will note that it's worth remembering that Fact or Fiction has GROSS synergy with Dig Through Time / Treasure Cruise. If I were actively developing a "traditional blue deck powered by Veteran Explorers" I would start with a draw engine of 4 FoF + 4 Cruise and go from there. Put in a bunch of ramp and wincons, maybe 4 Force of Wills, and go from there.

Fuck Brainstorm. Let's just Recall instead.

[uncletiggy]

This shift in the meta has me brewing helm leyline combo in a nic fit shell, because hell why not be presideboarded vs more then half the field. I think bug is probably the right shell for it if not junk. Brainstorming away extraneous combo pieces seems good and four drops arent hard to land at all cut the curve down to four and go for the insta kill vs playing the attrition game.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Honestly? In my opinion? A one-shot draw three, even for U and 7 yardcards, is terrible for a control deck like most Nic Fit lists.

See, that's because our goal as a control deck is to drag the game out just long enough to gain a nigh-insurmountable advantage over the opponent. Before then, we risk letting them kill us by drawing three, and after that time, we risk letting them overcome our accumulated advantage over them. Really there is a small window of opportunity, and it's not worth reserving the deck space for it.

Now, Top and Jace 2.0 on the other hand are really good, because they are NOT one-shot card advantage tools, but multi-use card quality tools. Which is what Nic Fit (and other dedicated control decks) would be most interested in, as they enable a gradual accumulation of advantage over an opponent.

Conversely, Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time would be awesome in most kinds of aggro/temp/midrange shell, because they want to have an immediate advantage to fight our gradual accumulation.

[Qweerios]

Honestly? In my opinion? A one-shot draw three, even for U and 7 yardcards, is terrible for a control deck like most Nic Fit lists.

See, that's because our goal as a control deck is to drag the game out just long enough to gain a nigh-insurmountable advantage over the opponent. Before then, we risk letting them kill us by drawing three, and after that time, we risk letting them overcome our accumulated advantage over them. Really there is a small window of opportunity, and it's not worth reserving the deck space for it.

Now, Top and Jace 2.0 on the other hand are really good, because they are NOT one-shot card advantage tools, but multi-use card quality tools. Which is what Nic Fit (and other dedicated control decks) would be most interested in, as they enable a gradual accumulation of advantage over an opponent.

Conversely, Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time would be awesome in most kinds of aggro/temp/midrange shell, because they want to have an immediate advantage to fight our gradual accumulation.

So if Ancestral Recall was legacy legal, you wouldn't play it in a control deck because it's only a one time thing?

I know this sounds crazy because Jace over 5 turns gives you more cards than TC, but what if by the time you hit your 4th turn you could have reliably cast a second TC? Probably not then because Jace over 9 turns is better...

EDIT: Legacy not Modern

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I really dont know how Id feel about Ancestral Recall in a Legacy control list. On one hand, its an absurdly powerful card for sure. On the other, the number of turns a control deck needs to survive in Vintage is significantly lower than that of Legacy thanks to mana rocks: a more apt card for Legacy control would be Library of Alexandria.

EDIT: Though that isnt dismissing the potential for single shot draw effects in control. After all, Mulldrifter was a thing back in LORALA Standard because it drew cards and had an evasive body.

[Cliq]

How do you guys feel about Kitchen Finks in the BUG pod lists? I was thinking about dropping it for either Clique or TNN, either of which is better vs a lot of decks. I feel like the Burn matchup is already pretty favorable, and that's the main reason to keep Finks.

[whatwas]

How do you guys feel about Kitchen Finks in the BUG pod lists? I was thinking about dropping it for either Clique or TNN, either of which is better vs a lot of decks. I feel like the Burn matchup is already pretty favorable, and that's the main reason to keep Finks.
Huh? They don't have persist? I thought people played them for the value. Tnn in junk pod with sfm maybe. But I'm still confused.

[Surfkatt]

Kinda a silly Idea but what do you guys think of a 1 of Polukranos, World Eater MB as a GSZ target? A tutorable way to interact with delvers and elves that survives bolt. Most likely really bad but it is a thought.

[Bobmans]

Kinda a silly Idea but what do you guys think of a 1 of Polukranos, World Eater MB as a GSZ target? A tutorable way to interact with delvers and elves that survives bolt. Most likely really bad but it is a thought.

You would need a lot of mana to do that. I don't think it to be realistic. Most games i have played i was able to build up 6/7 lands before the game was decided. Becides, Pernicious Deed is already doing this for a lot less mana and a lot faster. Although not searchable with Zenith.

[Bobmans]

Yesteryday i played a 22 player tournament with the JUNK Nic FIt list i was posting earlier this week. The results where a disaster and i wasn't thinking clearly making not the most efficient plays and had some bad guesses. Though the list felt very powerful and has potential being good. The results where 1-2 Drop (played a single elimination side event with some other players since we where out of prizes). List:

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith

2 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed

4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas

SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 2 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
SB: 1 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Grave Titan


R 1: Elves!
Game 1 i didn't know what he was on and i went on playing ground combat, but it was elves. I wasn't really prepared for Elves, but had a decent clock, so i tried slowing him down and get there with Umezawa's Jitte. It was to late and Hoof showed up for lethal. Damn Wirewood Symbiote block tricks.
Game 2 i was able to land a T2 Teeg and a T3 PDeed. I held it back until i could land a Sun Titan and it was enough to stop them. I got him down to 2 life after attacking with SunTitan and blowing Deeds i then GSZ for Siege Rhino for lethal the same turn.
Game 3 i kept a sketchy ground combat hand and was able to land a Teeg and a Spirit of the Labyrinth (which was awesome against Elvish Visionary/Glimpse of Nature). But i never found a PDeeds to prevent him from hardcasting Hoof with 8 creatures online in the 5th turn in overtime...

R 2: Sneak/Show
Game 1 we got a deckcheck. Me deck was not alright. I was playing a bunch of foils, but the FNM foil Cabal Therapy's where to bend so i got a game loss and had to borrow some normal ones from another player. So i sat with the player and went to game 2 with no SB changes. I didnt know what he was on. The little bit of focus i had was gone after that...
Game 2 He started the game, went PDelta, Island, Ponder, Go. So i thought he might be on ANT. So i go Cabal Therapy, and named Brainstorm going safe. I saw Griselbrand, S&T, Sneak, FoW, Ancient Tomb. Damn. I had a Batterskull and aSword to Plowshares. He went S&T into Griselbrand and i dropped the BSkull. Next turn he untapped and attacked with Griselbrand. Tried to Plow it hoping he needed to draw 7, but had the second blue card for fow... And out of prizes....

R 3: UW Mill effect creature/control
Game 1 He FoW'd my DRS, he played BS/Ponder and played some creatures the made me put my top cards of my library into my graveyard. The effect was cumulative and had me put like 30 cards or so in the grave. I had an Eternal Witness into a Mealstrom Pulse and along with a Plow i was able to clear his board and Batterskull took over that game.
Game 2 went slower. He Dazed my DRS and i was stuck with 1 land and (luckily) a SDT. I took sooo long before i found more lands. Then i played a Spirit of the Labyrinth and the game was even slower. He used Path to Exile which gave me the Swamp i needed to get my game plan going. Luckiliy i drew into a second Abrupt Decay and a Bayou and could double deed his creatures and clear the board. He bounced one of hi creatures but BSkull could go ground combat mode and had me win.

R X: Mono B Smallpox, The Rack
This was a friendly match-up with the friend we went to the tourney with. He played DnT and made T8. Anyway he wanted to test his toy deck. And playing against this deck was interesting.
Game 1 he was able to wreck my hand, destroy everything i played and hold me down on mana. But Volrath's Stronghold with Eternal Witness nearly had me coming back. I was able to float a Sigarda with Top till i had the mana to cast it. Then i did and nearly got me that game, but Toxic Deluge on 5 was to much. He kept drawing the good stuff and the Mishra's Factories got him there.
Game 2 Started the same, but i was able to land multiple creatures. He mazed of ith one of them, but eventually landing a Sun Titan it was to much and he died...
Game 3 Started good for him, but somehow i was able to get some stuff online, but he got a Deluge and 2 The rack's. I was able to Get some life back with DRS and tried to one shot him with a Siege Rhino i put back on top with Stronghold, but he drew that one Wasteland and prevented me from casting it...

I will keep playing this deck to ectaully get better with it. It has awesome lines of play and puts up a good fight, which might even be better if i can just think ahead in the decision trees a bit deeper and be sharper.

Pros
*Sigarda, versus like nearly anything.
*Sun Titan. That card is soo good with all the low CMC permanents, especcially with PDeed. I like it better then PrimeTime. For it not being green is a downside, but somehow i kept seeing the card. Plus it is a longgame card anyway. Changes are you be seeing it.
*Maelstrom Pulse. I really like the card being able to hit multiples. It won the game against UW Mill effect and it would have been relevant against the multiple The Rack's.
*Veteran Explorer. Everytime i landed this card the manabase allowed me to go crazy. Even tho the opponent gets to land basics to. But it doesn't matter since we should be playing the bigger/better cards.
*Pernicious Deed. I am happy to not have gone 3x Thoughtseize instead. Actually i am thinking i want better access to this card by playing 4 or a way to get it faster.

Meh
*Spirit of the Labyrinth. I liked it and i still think it is meh. It did slow down the UW and the Elves player, but got removed easily. Need to play it more to get a better conclusive answer.
*Stoneforge Mystic. It can be soo slow. I am thinking about trying to cut the SFM package and go with something else. Really looking for something to make impact on the board. And while it sometime does it also often doesn't. SFM doens't really help against combo to..
*4x SDT, it felt as too much. Often having one is nice, but seeing two is not really nice. Also it think i will go back to 3 and get back the 3rd Veteran Explorer.

Cons
* No way of removing opposing lands. Maybe a one of Vindicate is mandatory here. Maze of Ith really slowed me down and had no interaction with it other then Sigarda's hexproof...
* The deck for not being fast enough to drop a quick Sigarda, because the manabase build-up felt a bit slow. Going back to 3 Veteran's might fix it.
*!! Foil bended cards....

Toughts to change the deck:
Cut the SFM package and instead:

3 Academy Rector
1 Moat
1 Recurring Nightmare

or

1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vindicate
(1 Reclamation Sage)

[Ralf]

Hey folks,

I've played a monthly tournament this week end with an Abzan Pod Fit.
Here are the results:


R1 Elves 2-0
R2 Patriot control 2-0
R3 BUG Delver with cruise 1-1
R4 BUG Delver with Bob 2-0
R5 Final against RUG 2-1

Went home with a tropical island for my troubles !

Cheers.

[Arianrhod]

Hey folks,

I've played a monthly tournament this week end with an Abzan Pod Fit.
Here are the results:


R1 Elves 2-0
R2 Patriot control 2-0
R3 BUG Delver with cruise 1-1
R4 BUG Delver with Bob 2-0
R5 Final against RUG 2-1

Went home with a tropical island for my troubles !

Cheers.

More detail on Elves and BUG/Cruise, please.

[Ralf]

More detail on Elves and BUG/Cruise, please.

I'm lost in translation, Kevin, so excuse the following grammar thing...

R1 = elves

On the play G1= I kept a strong fair hand without knowing opp's deck. DRS, 2 fetchs, GSZ, Pod, AD, swamp.
The sequence was like
T1= fetch DRS
T2= Fetch + AD on T1 elf + GSZ @0
T3= Pod + crack DRS for SFM into Jitte (At this point I guess gaddock was a better target)
T4= Pod + crack SFM for Pontiff, sweeping his board and I won with an equipped jitte from there

On the draw G2= I kept a heavy discard hand which slowed him down including TS + cabal + veteran into broken things. He was winning the race at some point and I had to do a small trick activating SFM holding priority to get back BSK in hands to finally resolve SFM activated ability putting back BSK in play to answer a reclamation sage trigger and to not die on the next combat phase. Pod + BSK got eventually destroyed and the board state was like SoL, Gaddock, Ethersworn canonist + jitte in hand. Fortunately I drew Sigarda so I could connect with Jitte again and slowly grinded him down

Hot ! But nonetheless, happy.

On the draw R3 = BUG Delver but I put him on D&T

G1= I kept a slow hand and was crushed by magical christmas aggro land. By turn 6 I had to face 2 delver, 2 DRS, 2 Tarmo. At 7, I scooped as I needed an extra turn to take over the game but I was facing lethal on his turn so I did not give him to much information.

G2 = I went aggro and side out all discard + gaddock. I grinded him out. He resolved 3 TC during the game to finally realize that he could not just beat Sigarda. Unfortunately, he played very very slowly and time was called just before starting G3...

[Cliq]

Huh? They don't have persist? I thought people played them for the value. Tnn in junk pod with sfm maybe. But I'm still confused.

It's a 3/2 for 3 that you can sac once and gain a couple life, and it's always felt like a mediocre 3-drop, especially since I'm only running 3 pods. I'd rather have something I can pitch to force post-board and that has an effect I'm looking for more often. Clique is great vs Show & Tell and provides reasonable pressure, while TNN stays alive and also provides the same clock and can block 'Goyf.

[MD.Ghost]

Hey folks,

I've played a monthly tournament this week end with an Abzan Pod Fit.
Here are the results:


R1 Elves 2-0
R2 Patriot control 2-0
R3 BUG Delver with cruise 1-1
R4 BUG Delver with Bob 2-0
R5 Final against RUG 2-1

Went home with a tropical island for my troubles !

Cheers.

Félicitation / Grats!

Can we have a list for more insight please?

[Ralf]

Félicitation / Grats!

Can we have a list for more insight please?

Sure buddy, here it is:

http://www.legacy-france.org/index.php?showtopic=12315

Mid page. If you have any translation problems. Bang on my door :D

[Qweerios]

@Ralf,

How do you like the list? Did you like the tutor board? How do you like Wall of Blossoms? Lately I have been playing Elvish Visionary instead since I have faced the scenario where I needed my Wall to carry an equipment.

I recently had good results playing "Abzan" Pod lately. I have been slowly been moving away from it's namesake card however as I don't find Pod to be necessary in this deck to win. Pod serves the same role as a card like Sylvan Library but also forces us into a lot of cards we wouldn't play otherwise (Pontiff, Redcap, and Resto). Pod along with Resto, Redcap, and Pontiff are probably the cards I tend to side out the most in favor of Liliana.

Speaking of Liliana, I cannot stress the importance of this card in a deck playing 8 discard spells and 8 ramp spells. She is one of our most resilient threats and will be good in nearly all of our matches. If your early hand consists of ramp, you will end up with a devastating T2 Liliana. If your hand is mostly discard, you get to strip your opponents hand and establish dominance on the board and dictate hand sizes. The card is absolutely amazing against all of our bad matchups as well (Combo, Miracles, 12-Post). She is currently my #1 sideboard card as she replaces every dead card in the main. I really believe Liliana is stronger than Pod even in this deck because Pod forces us into bad cards while Liliana makes our core cards stronger albeit some minor dis-synergy with SFM.

Furthermore I noticed that every time Pod is a winning play, it is because I manage to Pod into Stoneforge and take the game away with Batterskull and excessive amounts of mana to move it around as I wish. Since SFM is more of a hay-maker than Pod in this deck, why not play 4? We get to play SoFaI mainboard against Nemesis rather than Pontiff. Similar to Pod, SoFaI is also a great way to convert copious amounts of mana into card advantage.

[Ralf]

@Ralf,

How do you like the list? Did you like the tutor board? How do you like Wall of Blossoms? Lately I have been playing Elvish Visionary instead since I have faced the scenario where I needed my Wall to carry an equipment.

I recently had good results playing "Abzan" Pod lately. I have been slowly been moving away from it's namesake card however as I don't find Pod to be necessary in this deck to win. Pod serves the same role as a card like Sylvan Library but also forces us into a lot of cards we wouldn't play otherwise (Pontiff, Redcap, and Resto). Pod along with Resto, Redcap, and Pontiff are probably the cards I tend to side out the most in favor of Liliana.

Speaking of Liliana, I cannot stress the importance of this card in a deck playing 8 discard spells and 8 ramp spells. She is one of our most resilient threats and will be good in nearly all of our matches. If your early hand consists of ramp, you will end up with a devastating T2 Liliana. If your hand is mostly discard, you get to strip your opponents hand and establish dominance on the board and dictate hand sizes. The card is absolutely amazing against all of our bad matchups as well (Combo, Miracles, 12-Post). She is currently my #1 sideboard card as she replaces every dead card in the main. I really believe Liliana is stronger than Pod even in this deck because Pod forces us into bad cards while Liliana makes our core cards stronger albeit some minor dis-synergy with SFM.

Furthermore I noticed that every time Pod is a winning play, it is because I manage to Pod into Stoneforge and take the game away with Batterskull and excessive amounts of mana to move it around as I wish. Since SFM is more of a hay-maker than Pod in this deck, why not play 4? We get to play SoFaI mainboard against Nemesis rather than Pontiff. Similar to Pod, SoFaI is also a great way to convert copious amounts of mana into card advantage.

Hello Qweerios,

First of all things, thanks for sharing the list.

I won't speak too much about the list itself because I think I have far too little practise with it and my first judgments would be biased a lot.

Without any doubt, POD was definitely a winning play, all day long, although, I did win without it.
But every game was won on the back of Murderous Redcap which was the MVP of the day. OMG this card is broken with POD...

Lots of G2 & G3 were similar in the fact that I had to fight to resolve a POD to start the winning chain.
Most of them included the following sequence as I rarely had to start the pod chain from 1 CMC or 2 CMC creature:

1) POD is in the grave.
2) GSZ for witness grabbing POD back
3) Play POD, sac witness for MRC (murderous redcap), kill delver/whatever.
4) Eventually MRC got Sigarda & Thragtusk

SFM was meh.
I did play some, to just get it nuked and stared @ my hand with a jitte/BSK/SOFI for several turn.

I might have played conservative but most of the time I did not want to lose Jitte/sword to a decay without getting any value of it.
So every time I just waited until I could land Sigarda and attach an equipment onto it.

I played against fair decks the whole day (except Elves). Discard was sided out every time for more dudes and lilianas just to overload them with potential threat & annoyance (At least against BUG Delver). Against RUG, I got back therapies in because of stifle.
Never got the chance to play the tutor board. So I can't speak about it.

My build was a bit different from your latest version:
- 6 discards MD +2 in the side
- Heavy testing against UR delver/Burn proved that Finks has its slot MD, otherwise you are losing a good 10-15 % in the MU.
- 2 Veteran Explorer instead of only one because we NEED to ramp to do broken things and unfortunately DRS is KOS (killed on sight) most of the time against tempo whereas they have to walk into veteran.

POD might not be necessary but I cannot dismiss the fact that in a format such as legacy, the surprising factor created by POD is HUGE & real.
Lots of opponents where sweating hard everytime I resolved a POD just in case I had some broken combo in the deck...

No lucky topdecks whatsoever, just playing tight.

However, I'll agree with you, opponent scooped to Sigarda + something attached to it...
So, equipments are really mandatory.

But if I had to state anything after this, I got the gut feeling that we could cut/reduce the number of SFM instead, not POD.

Sidenote 1: Did not see the Wall of Blossom nor did I fetch for it once.

Sidenote 2: Funny stuff one of my play included a POD into resto angel on a just played thragtusk to win 10 life a turn + a token. WOW

[Svknoe]

It's a 3/2 for 3 that you can sac once and gain a couple life, and it's always felt like a mediocre 3-drop, especially since I'm only running 3 pods. I'd rather have something I can pitch to force post-board and that has an effect I'm looking for more often. Clique is great vs Show & Tell and provides reasonable pressure, while TNN stays alive and also provides the same clock and can block 'Goyf.

The main reason that finks is good is that it keeps the pod chain going through removal (otherwise it can get 2 4 drops). In my experience Clique is also okay but TNN seem very weak. It doesn't generate value in the pod chain and I havn't been wanting to kill them with a 3/1 in my games.

Edit: Nice finish, Ralf.

[Cliq]

The main reason that finks is good is that it keeps the pod chain going through removal (otherwise it can get 2 4 drops). In my experience Clique is also okay but TNN seem very weak. It doesn't generate value in the pod chain and I havn't been wanting to kill them with a 3/1 in my games.

Edit: Nice finish, Ralf.

That's a fair point. Have you made many changes to the deck since last year? Really love your list, by the way, I've been running it for a couple months now and have only really fiddled with the sideboard and added a reclamation sage. I'm strongly considering taking some iteration of it to GP NJ.

[whatwas]

That's a fair point. Have you made many changes to the deck since last year? Really love your list, by the way, I've been running it for a couple months now and have only really fiddled with the sideboard and added a reclamation sage. I'm strongly considering taking some iteration of it to GP NJ.
GP NJ, dang, I wish you luck. Should be an amazing event either way. Wish I could attend. GP Orlando was cool though. Scrubbed out after 4 rounds though. I should quit smoking since its caused me a game there and at the last open I attended.

[Qweerios]

"Abzan" Fit is also one of my considerations for New Jersey so I have been testing it quite a lot. I am still very cautious of bringing a deck without Brainstorm to this event but so far testing has been going well. The deck no longer resembles Pod or Nic Fit much anymore but I guess that as long as you play Therapy and Explorer in a deck it qualifies as Nic Fit. Here is the list I am considering:


4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Abrupt Decay

4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

2 Sylvan Library

3 Liliana of the Veil

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
//SB
2 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Choke
1 Engineered Plague
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Safekeeper


The deck feels much more like a Rock deck than ever before except that it foregoes Wastelands in favor of basic lands and a powerful scaling GSZ package. The deck utilizes all the mana generated by the numerous mana dorks and the lands provided by Explorer to force a "topdeck mode" game via multiple targeted discard effects. It then proceeds to play superior threats by sinking all its built up mana into either equipments that will cause our mana dorks and utility creatures to become threatening or by powering out a GSZ into Sigarda or Ooze.

I ended up going for Sylvan Libraries instead of Birthing Pod simply because Library isn't a dead card on its own, costs less mana and life to play and activate, and has similar long lasting benefits. Unlike Top, Library is also less mana intensive, and can actually generate card advantage. Library also has strong synergy with Jitte and Batterskull as it converts life gain into additional cards.

All the fat has been trimmed so that the deck is more consistent and smoother to play. No non-green creatures or overcosted cards that don't end the game on their own. Anything carrying at least 1 equipment can end a game swiftly if supported with adequate disruption. Even Thragtusk had to go as he doesn't do anything particularly well aside from surviving a Terminus. I tested against UR Delver and Burn decks a lot since I cut Thragtusk and Finks from my list and the matchup is still extremely favorable with all the discard, the SFM package, DRS, and Ooze.

The sideboard is still being tweaked as Safekeeper is undergoing testing. So far he enables a lock against Miracles in the form of a shrouded Teeg. All you have to do is not attack into Snapcaster and their only out to this situation is Council's Judgment. Safekeeper is also one of the only good GSZ targets aside from Teeg for unfair matchups. As for fair matchups, the only change that takes place is Teeg coming out in favor of the 4th Liliana and some copies of Thoughtseize that become ZP, Duress, Choke, Plague, Needle, and/or Safekeeper.

Is there anything this deck is blatantly missing that would make it better?

[EpicLevelCommoner]

"Abzan" Fit is also one of my considerations for New Jersey so I have been testing it quite a lot. I am still very cautious of bringing a deck without Brainstorm to this event but so far testing has been going well. The deck no longer resembles Pod or Nic Fit much anymore but I guess that as long as you play Therapy and Explorer in a deck it qualifies as Nic Fit. Here is the list I am considering:


4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Abrupt Decay

4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

2 Sylvan Library

3 Liliana of the Veil

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
//SB
2 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Choke
1 Engineered Plague
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Safekeeper


The deck feels much more like a Rock deck than ever before except that it foregoes Wastelands in favor of basic lands and a powerful scaling GSZ package. The deck utilizes all the mana generated by the numerous mana dorks and the lands provided by Explorer to force a "topdeck mode" game via multiple targeted discard effects. It then proceeds to play superior threats by sinking all its built up mana into either equipments that will cause our mana dorks and utility creatures to become threatening or by powering out a GSZ into Sigarda or Ooze.

I ended up going for Sylvan Libraries instead of Birthing Pod simply because Library isn't a dead card on its own, costs less mana and life to play and activate, and has similar long lasting benefits. Unlike Top, Library is also less mana intensive, and can actually generate card advantage. Library also has strong synergy with Jitte and Batterskull as it converts life gain into additional cards.

All the fat has been trimmed so that the deck is more consistent and smoother to play. No non-green creatures or overcosted cards that don't end the game on their own. Anything carrying at least 1 equipment can end a game swiftly if supported with adequate disruption. Even Thragtusk had to go as he doesn't do anything particularly well aside from surviving a Terminus. I tested against UR Delver and Burn decks a lot since I cut Thragtusk and Finks from my list and the matchup is still extremely favorable with all the discard, the SFM package, DRS, and Ooze.

The sideboard is still being tweaked as Safekeeper is undergoing testing. So far he enables a lock against Miracles in the form of a shrouded Teeg. All you have to do is not attack into Snapcaster and their only out to this situation is Council's Judgment. Safekeeper is also one of the only good GSZ targets aside from Teeg for unfair matchups. As for fair matchups, the only change that takes place is Teeg coming out in favor of the 4th Liliana and some copies of Thoughtseize that become ZP, Duress, Choke, Plague, Needle, and/or Safekeeper.

Is there anything this deck is blatantly missing that would make it better?

Looks like you read my mind in terms of sideboard: Aegis protected by Teeg and Safekeeper is really sweet. On that note however, I suggest finding room for Peacekeeper or something similar for Elves! and SnT decks. Actually, how have matchups been so far?

[Arianrhod]

I'll give it a good look over tomorrow, Qweerios, and give you some thoughts. For what it's worth, I don't disagree with your direction. It's not one that I personally will be adopting (although I share your views on Abzan being a good place to be for the GP per meta analysis), but I'm actually behind you on this one -- which probably surprises you a bit.

More in the morning.

[Qweerios]

Looks like you read my mind in terms of sideboard: Aegis protected by Teeg and Safekeeper is really sweet. On that note however, I suggest finding room for Peacekeeper or something similar for Elves! and SnT decks. Actually, how have matchups been so far?

I try to stay away from creatures I cannot tutor unless they have a strong impact on many matchups. This is why I don't think Peacekeeper is reliable.

The Elves matchup is quite good actually.

In:
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Canonist
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Engineered Plague
1 Liliana
Out:
2 Sylvan Library
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Witness
1 Sigarda
1 SoFaI

The deck becomes a control deck where we try to land an early discard spell followed by removal and hate pieces. However, just like any non-blue deck we don't have cards like FoW to ensure we get to T2-3 safely.

Against Miracles I get to side out the Explorer/Therapy package and play the long game.

In:
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Choke
1 Liliana

Out:
1 Explorer
1 Ooze
1 Jitte
1 Decay (4 is too many with GSZ for Sage)
4 Cabal Therapy

Ideally I'd like to Choke them and Needle their Top or land Teeg and Safekeeper together. If I manage to Extract a Terminus, things go much smoother as well. I usually get lots of pressure in by fetching SoFaI and fetching an Arbor EoT. If I can extract Entreat, the game is much less stressful as Jace is much easier to handle than a lethal entreat to which I have no answers to. Sylvan Library and Liliana are also massive headaches for any Miracle player to try and handle. The deck has so many angles of disruption and different lock pieces against Miracles that I am confident in the matchup despite very little testing from my part (with this specific list).

My testing against UR Delver and American Delver is promising too. The only changes I have to make for these matchups are to swap out Teeg for the 4th Liliana and some Thoughtseizes for a combination of ZP, Duress, Safekeeper, and/or Spirit of the Labyrinth. G1 generally goes in my favor while G2 can be tough if they get a Delver start followed by artifact destruction and burn reach. This is what I both like and dislike about non-blue decks: they have to concede the first couple of turns to the blue decks and claw their way back into the game.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I try to stay away from creatures I cannot tutor unless they have a strong impact on many matchups. This is why I don't think Peacekeeper is reliable.

The Elves matchup is quite good actually.

In:
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Canonist
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Engineered Plague
1 Liliana
Out:
2 Sylvan Library
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Witness
1 Sigarda
1 SoFaI

The deck becomes a control deck where we try to land an early discard spell followed by removal and hate pieces. However, just like any non-blue deck we don't have cards like FoW to ensure we get to T2-3 safely.

Against Miracles I get to side out the Explorer/Therapy package and play the long game.

In:
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Choke
1 Liliana

Out:
1 Explorer
1 Ooze
1 Jitte
1 Decay (4 is too many with GSZ for Sage)
4 Cabal Therapy

Ideally I'd like to Choke them and Needle their Top or land Teeg and Safekeeper together. If I manage to Extract a Terminus, things go much smoother as well. I usually get lots of pressure in by fetching SoFaI and fetching an Arbor EoT. If I can extract Entreat, the game is much less stressful as Jace is much easier to handle than a lethal entreat to which I have no answers to. Sylvan Library and Liliana are also massive headaches for any Miracle player to try and handle. The deck has so many angles of disruption and different lock pieces against Miracles that I am confident in the matchup despite very little testing from my part (with this specific list).

My testing against UR Delver and American Delver is promising too. The only changes I have to make for these matchups are to swap out Teeg for the 4th Liliana and some Thoughtseizes for a combination of ZP, Duress, Safekeeper, and/or Spirit of the Labyrinth. G1 generally goes in my favor while G2 can be tough if they get a Delver start followed by artifact destruction and burn reach. This is what I both like and dislike about non-blue decks: they have to concede the first couple of turns to the blue decks and claw their way back into the game.

Fair enough: I understand that point completely. However, I'm surprised you still keep Teeg in for the Elves! matchup, given that despite taking out GSZ and NO, he's relatively useless in that matchup, as nothing can really stop them topdecking the Big Bad Hoof. Not sure how that would affect SBing in that matchup, or whether your experience is similar to mine: just food for thought ^_^.

[Arianrhod]

Fair enough: I understand that point completely. However, I'm surprised you still keep Teeg in for the Elves! matchup, given that despite taking out GSZ and NO, he's relatively useless in that matchup, as nothing can really stop them topdecking the Big Bad Hoof. Not sure how that would affect SBing in that matchup, or whether your experience is similar to mine: just food for thought ^_^.

Stopping Zenith and NO is 100% worth. Elves frequently only has 1 Hoof postboard. Even if they leave in the second copy, that's 2 ways to kill you vs 9/10 (depending on NO count). That's a world of difference. Shutting down NO in particular also stops their reliable turn 3 kill, and shutting off Zenith makes it harder for them to Glimpse off since they can't just grab whatever piece they were missing.

[Arianrhod]

@Qweerios:

Okay, down the line we go....

4 DRS, 1 Vet, 1 Arbor [ramp core]

I still question the inclusion of Dryad Arbor. I mean, you're not running Deed, so that's fine. But, is Zenithing for Arbor better than holding it for a turn and grabbing Explorer or DRS instead? Note: it may be, I just want thoughts on it.

It may be hand dependent. The only times I think I would feel comfortable zenithing for Arbor in this deck is when you lead Bayou->Zenith->t2 black source + Liliana; or if you have a double Zenith hand and you actively want Teeg or Ooze in the matchup. Actually, I guess t1 Arbor also enables Thoughtseize+ Stoneforge on t2, so maybe it's better than it first looks?

4 SFM, 1 Jitte, 1 SoFI, 1 Skull

Pretty standard 4x SFM core package. Nothing really to comment on here.

1 Visionary, 1 Ooze, 1 Teeg, 1 Rec Sage, 1 E.Wit, 1 Sigarda

The rest of the Zenith package.

Visionary is your standard 'go-to', I take it. Card's basically always good value, so I guess that's fine. The only issue is that it's very low-impact -- lower than Wall of Blossoms, even, although obviously Visionary can actually attack and suit up, which matters. I'm not sure if this is better than another Ooze, though...something a little higher-impact. You can't recur the Visionary, so the ETB trigger matters a little less, and the Visionary is still only replacing itself...it's not actual card advantage, and you're spending a Zenith to get it most likely, which doesn't feel worthwhile to me.

I wonder if Strangleroot Geist might be better than Visionary for this slot, since you're a little more aggressive and it could lead to some blowouts with stranded equipment.

All of the rest of the bullets feel fine to me, although I still like Rhino, especially for a list like this that can suit him up. With DRS and Ooze, you can control opposing Goyfs, and Rhino is usually at least on parity with most average Goyfs even without DRS interference. The space may be an issue here, though.

You technically only really -need- Sigarda to win, but I will caution you that in my experience, Sigarda isn't sufficient anymore by herself due to the presence of Council's Judgment offering a powerful, maindeckable answer to her. I wouldn't mind seeing a little bit more threat density here.

4 Decay

While on that subject, is this better than 3 Decay, 1 Council's Judgment? Nic Fit is a deck that is singularly able to use and abuse Council's Judgment, and it feels strange to not have any at all in a white-based nic fit. I dunno. Judgment has greatly impressed me, and I wouldn't leave him without at least one (I prefer two).

4 Thoughtseize + 4 Therapy

I....meh. If you're going to run Thoughtseize in addition to Therapy, I almost feel like it has to be as a full 8pack. While that's not my preference, you do have Liliana to pitch the extra midgame discard spells to. I would almost rather just run with the Thoughtseizes and cut the Therapies for extra removal + an extra threat or two, but I'm not sure how ideal that is.

I just realized something. Where are your Lingering Souls? You're running Therapy, Liliana, and equipment. That's all begging for Souls. You don't have a ton of sac fodder for Therapy flashback right now...basically just extra Stoneforges, Visionary, Explorer, RecSage, and Witness. Maybe Arbor? I would say either trim down Therapies to maybe a 2-of (add in a pair of Council's Judgments? or 1 Judgment 1 threat?) or else shave elsewhere for Souls. Hmm.

4 Zenith, obv

2 Sylvan Lib

Hm. Why 2 Library over 1 Lib 1 Top? Library is pretty dead in multiples, and you still have all of the traditionally Nic Fit deck manipulation to get multiple Top spins per turn. I'm far from disagreeing with Sylvan's presence (hell, I've thought about running it as a 1-of even alongside Deed, and you don't have that headache here).

3 Liliana

Makes sense here. Again, I think I would like her better with Souls, but she's far from bad in this list. You have plenty of pitch fodder for her to play around your hand, and she does what you need her to do.

Manabase

Is the pair of Marsh Flats better than a pair of Wastelands would be for this deck?

Sideboard

You have Zealous Persecution too? Jeez. Seriously, Souls tho.

I'm not sure the pair of Duress is needed. You already have 8+(4)+3 discard avenues maindeck, and I see the 4th Liliana is also hanging out in your sideboard. I don't think you need 18 discard spells in your deck. If you're dead set on having the extra discard, I think I would make it a pair of Hymn to Tourachs over a pair of Duresses. Your manabase is already base-black for fast Lilianas.

Surgical is a fine role-player for what it does. I think the card would be strengthened overall by swapping Marsh -> Wasteland, as well.

1 ET is fine, since it's just a 2nd copy of your bullets. I actually have come to believe that more than 2 copies of ET is wrong in [decks]. The lone exception would be something like a bomberman combo deck or painter or something. If we're talking tutor board, 1-2 is correct imo.

Needle -- over Revoker? Explain. Do you want both, perhaps? They hate on slightly different things, but I think that they're both effects you want access to.

Canonist, Spirit of the Lab, Aegis -- Aegis is the only one I don't like here. I don't like Ivory Masks that can just be burned away. Sure, if you have Safekeeper out -- but then that turns every burn spell the opponent has into a Sinkhole, which is pretty awful. That also requires you to have both pieces, which seems like you're stretching. I would rather run a singleton Leyline of Sanctity over Aegis -- it's not like you can't just cast the Leyline, and it's susceptible to a heck of a lot less removal.

Choke's fine, Plague is fine, Liliana is fine...

Safekeeper is a card that I've dallied with a couple of times. I do like the guy, he's just kind of hard to find the space for. The problem with Safekeeper is that you need extra lands laying about to actually use him, and/or you need some kind of land-base recursion package. You don't have either here, so I'm not sure how he's going to work out for you. The card is powerful...his effect is definitely good. It's just dangerous in this deck, I feel, because it could easily be turned against you.

If I had to make room for the Souls, I would recommend these cuts:

1 Visionary
1 RecSage
1 Sylvan Library

+3 Souls

Additionally, I would go -1 Decay, +1 Council's Judgment.

While I like the idea of Strangleroot, I think that Souls is much more important and also invalidates Geist's purpose to a degree. Visionary is still a weak link, so that comes out. Sylvan is a source of card advantage and quality, but drawing a Lingering Souls will often generate as much CA as a Library would, and, again, I don't like Library as a 2-of. RecSage is the most painful cut (and I would try to find room for her in the sideboard, for sure), but I strongly believe that 3 Souls is the correct number, and cutting a 3-drop for a 3-drop is probably the best option. There's an argument to be made for cutting Witness over Sage, but I think that Witness is a little more important since she can get back destroyed equipment, discarded/countered Lilianas, sideboard hate, etc.

I'm going to split my post into two chunks -- here's the one dedicated to Qweerios's list. I'll now begin one for my list(s), and meta predictions for Eternal Weekend and GPNJ (I will be attending both).

[Arianrhod]

Okay. First of all, meta predictions.

Blue decks are lost in a Treasure Cruise arms race. UWR Delver is likely the best Cruise deck, with BUG Delver pulling up a close second. Shardless's identity is unclear at this point, but I believe it to still be a deck. Miracles is still real, and is likely the best Dig Through Time deck which is not combo-based. Note that RIP/Helm Miracles may make a resurgence depending on how many people want to play Dig vs how many people want to stop others from Delving (including themselves).

RUG Delver is quietly still the best Delver deck through all of it. Mongoose will still Mongoose people. People are jumping aboard the Burn and UR Delver trains en masse, which leaves RUG in an even better position as the premier Tarmogoyf deck, especially lists which opt out of trying to go Cruising and therefore can represent beefy Goyfs and Geese. Stifle is also incredibly well positioned, as people shift further onto fetchland oriented manabases to try to capitalize on lotus petals for Delving. This leaves manabases very vulnerable to attack via Stifle/Waste.

As noted, Burn and UR Delver will be everywhere. Both decks are cheap and traditionally reasonably-well performing for their cost of buy-in. UR Delver is hyped right now, with the additions of Taylorswiftspear and Cruise. Furthermore, with the amount of BUG in the field right now, both of these decks are well-positioned.

Combo is secretly the best archetype in the field. The blue decks' guard is currently down, and most blue decks are skimping on their combo answers. Dig Through Time powered OmniTell and Sneak/Show are both real, but DTT-powered High Tide is probably the realest delve-powered combo deck. DTT all but ensures that they don't run out of gas, it also lets them delve away garbage to keep their Time Spirals from periodically blowing up in their face.

The glass cannon combo decks (as well as ANT and TES) are arguably the best of the best, as sickening as it is to say. Why bother getting tangled in the Treasure Cruise morass, when you can just make them dead? Esperblade / Deathblade is basically a stagnant archetype at this point, and was the premier predator of fast combo decks. Miracles has become decadent and depends heavily on its Countertop to effectively fight combo, which fast combo can get under. The gamble is the amount of RUG and BUG Delver that will be present. If they dodge the Delver decks, I expect to see these decks perform well.

Sneak/Show and Elves will be around, as always, but I don't expect either of these decks to perform well. Elves's power has waned considerably as people have both begun sideboarding for it and have actually learned how to interact with the deck (what to kill, when, in particular). Sneak just isn't well positioned right now. It'll always have those "toddler with a rocket launcher" hands, but when forced to fight a "fair" game of magic, I expect it to suffer.

Reanimator, Dredge, and Loam strategies are going to have a bad time as the format revolves increasingly around Delve and people prepare to deal with the menace. Additionally, Reanimator has become much harder to buy into with the current price point of Underground Sea, Show and Tell, and Griselbrand. Enjoy it while it lasts, because next year, Reanimator is going to be a budget deck again. Thanks WotC for making Griselbrand a GP promo right after Entomb was a heavily-produced judge foil ON TOP of being in Graveborn.

Jund's prey is gone, so it'll fall back into the depths from which it came.

----------

tl;dr:

upswing:

RUG Delver, fast combo (TES, ANT, Belcher, etc)
Burn, UR Delver
High Tide

holding position:

Mirakuru
BUG/UWR Delver
u/x.dec (stoneblade holdouts, shardless [both types], etc)

downturn:

Sneak, Elves
graveyard strategies
Jund

A disclaimer:

I don't expect people to realize exactly how good fast combo is right now until AFTER the grand prix. I'm content playing Nic Fit in both Eternal Weekend and GP NJ -- but after NJ is over with, I'll probably be scared to touch the deck for a while. Fair warning.

So, if we're expecting a lot of Burn, UR Delver and RUG Delver alongside the stalwarts of Miracles, BUG Delver, UWR Delver, and random blue decks, white-based Nic Fit seems like the place to be. This is primarily because of the first two of that number. BUG decks all struggle with Burn and UR Delver, no matter what the actual deck is that is being played in those colors, including BUG Nic Fit.

For reference, here's my updated BUG/Sultai list:

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Eternal Witness
2 Notion Thief
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 The Mimeoplasm
1 Thragtusk
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Frost Titan
1 Rune-Scarred Demon

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent

2 Abrupt Decay

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Garruk Relentless

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Future Sight
1 Recurring Nightmare

3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Phyrexian Tower

sb::
1 Bribery
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Krosan Grip
2 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cranial Extraction
2 Toxic Deluge

Garruk Relentless has wildly overperformed in this deck. Rune-Scarred joins the club as an extra "big threat," because the deck struggled with closing more than just about anything else.

I have spent a lot of time examining and testing this list, and have concluded that this is NOT a Treasure Cruise (or Dig Through Time) deck.

There are two major reasons for this. The first is that it is very hard to find the space without cutting into some numbers somewhere. Some creatures could probably be shaved, true, but then you make Diabolic Intent and Garruk Relentless worse, as well as Recurring Nightmare and Mimeoplasm.

The second is that we can't really Delve by the nature of Nic Fit. We simply don't put many cards in the graveyard until mid to late game. Therapies exile themselves. Creatures get Swordsed. Tops don't die. Zeniths shuffle themselves back in. We typically only play 6 fetches. Etc. That all but ensures that Cruise/Dig are going to be expensive to cast, even on the first one, to the point where it's basically a blue Harmonize, which I don't feel is good enough. I would rather play Jace at that point.

Obviously you're welcome to (encouraged to) disagree with me. But, this is how I have it set up and how I like running it. I won't say it's necessarily the best BUG Nic Fit (non-gimmick) list, but I would not have any qualms about playing this list in a major event right now OTHER THAN the massive spike in UR Delver and Burn.

--------------------

No, what I would much rather be doing is Baneslayering people.

This is where I'm at right now, a week from Eternal Weekend:

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selvala, Explorer Returned
1 Eternal Witness
2 Spike Feeder
2 Siege Rhino
1 Spike Weaver
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Council's Judgment

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Abzan Charm

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare

3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower

sb::
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Thoughtseize
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Haunting Echoes
2 Baneslayer Angel
2 Krosan Grip

I actually think that this deck is shockingly well positioned right now. The trick is going to be getting the intricacies narrowed down and hammered out.

So, where we left this project, I was feeling very dejected that I was unable to keep up with the blue decks. Since that event, however, the format has shifted to a decidedly aggro tack, with the upswing in Delver of various stripes as categorized above. I also took a step back and re-examined my matchups, and concluded that the fact that both of the blue decks that I lost to were straight UW Blade had something to with it, as UW Blade is quite possibly the single best blue deck to play against Nic Fit -- better than Miracles or Shardless, for sure. UW Blade is highly consistent, with a large amount of filtering in addition to multiple Council's Judgments + a full compliment of Snapcasters alongside multiple Counterspell, planeswalkers, and so forth.

That being said, I have made some changes.

-) Ooze

I still hate this card, but I can acknowledge that it probably has a place here. This list is a 4x Zenith deck, and Ooze is a powerful tool when it comes down in some matchups. Additionally, it has strong synergy with Thune.

-) Teeg

He's back in the maindeck, giving me a game one out to combo. The Zeniths are the only cards maindeck that he shuts down, with the Haunting Echoes in the side as the lone postboard contender. He's not -great- in the meta right now, but he does shut down Cruise and Dig at least.

-) 2 Rhino

I'm pretty sure that 2 is the correct number for this guy. I tried him at 1, and wanted more. I tried him at 3, and wanted less. Tada.

-) 2 Abzan Charm

This card is the tits. It's high-quality removal, Night's Whisper, a counterspell protecting the combo, and a combat trick all rolled into one efficient package. The addition of the Abzan Charms also gives me access to 6 effective spot removal spells g1, which is pretty awesome in a world where people are moving away from threats in favor of car advantage.

-) Sideboard

I removed the extra two Abrupt Decays in favor of the Carpet of Flowers because I don't think I need 8 spot removal with the addition of Abzan Charm. Additionally, as noted previously, I'm expecting a lot of Stifle/Waste based Delver, and having the extra mana ramp in those matchups is likely important because those decks basically cannot beat Rhino/Thune/Baneslayer.

Nihil Spellbombs are on a testrun right now. The card is a favorite of mine in Vintage, where it puts in good work against opposing blue mirrors, helping keep YawgWill and Snapcaster under control while generating value. It's also a good hedge for against any random graveyard decks, although 2 Nihil / 1 Ooze / 4 Zenith still isn't a ton and likely still won't make those matchups even %wise.

The Mindcensor / Canonist package has proven itself time and time again, and continues to do what needs to be done.

-----) Things I'm not happy with yet:

-) The Marsh Flats

This was originally the Gavony Township, which proved awkward both to use (sometimes dead, sometimes game-winning) and straining on the manabase (I lost a couple of games because it was colorless). I'm not sure if there's another utility land I want in this slot, or if I make it another dual, or what exactly I do with it. I'm not thrilled with it being a 7th fetch, though.

-) 3 Tops

I'm actually starting to strongly consider changing to 2 Top 1 Sylvan Library.

Yes, it sometimes gets blown up...but it's technically a more powerful card than Top is in a lot of situations, and the two do play fairly nice together. I'm also annoyed at drowning in Tops every damn game.

-) sideboard Krosan Grips, Haunting Echoes

I'm not sure how concerned I REALLY am with Miracles at the moment. Rhino is a massive upgrade from Rector for g1 vs Miracles, and Abzan Charm isn't exactly dead, either.

I'll probably keep 1 Grip as a mise (3rd Decay for the matchup, essentially), but that would leave me with a tantalizing 2 free spots that could be something a bit more....diverse.

--------

So that's where I'm at for the moment. Thoughts, criticisms, etc all welcome as always. I top 32'd Eternal Weekend / Legacy last year after a heartbreaking loss to Shardless on a virtual win-and-in, and I'm hungry for a top 8 this year.

[nedleeds]

So if Ancestral Recall was legacy legal, you wouldn't play it in a control deck because it's only a one time thing?

I know this sounds crazy because Jace over 5 turns gives you more cards than TC, but what if by the time you hit your 4th turn you could have reliably cast a second TC? Probably not then because Jace over 9 turns is better...

EDIT: Legacy not Modern

Thanks for quoting him so I would have to read that. Yeah Ancestral is terrible, at least with Brainstorm you get to put the bad cards back and shuffle them away. :laugh:

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Thanks for quoting him so I would have to read that. Yeah Ancestral is terrible, at least with Brainstorm you get to put the bad cards back and shuffle them away. :laugh:

I guess I should elaborate a bit more, since it seems as though you'd be happy running Brainstorm or Recall or Treasure Cruise in any deck that runs Islands.

Recall and, by extension, Brainstorm and Treasure Cruise, are good when you need immediate advantage over an opponent as opposed to inevitable advantage. As a control deck Nic Fit does not need immediate advantage but inevitable advantage, hence my comparison to LoA.

Now you may be thinking why does Miracles run Brainstorm since it is a control deck? Because it is an instant that enables Miracles at the end of the opponent's turn. No doubt Brainstorm is a good card, and that Recall would be an auto 4 of in its stead were it legal in Legacy. But there is a reason that Miracles hasnt hopped aboard the Cruise hype train, despite being able to drag the game long enough to cast it.

TL; DR: Recall, Cruise, and Brainstorm are terrible in pure control shells unless they provide additional utility in addition to immediate card advantage.

[Ralf]

Okay. First of all, meta predictions.

For reference, here's my updated BUG/Sultai list:

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Eternal Witness
2 Notion Thief
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 The Mimeoplasm
1 Thragtusk
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Frost Titan
1 Rune-Scarred Demon

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent

2 Abrupt Decay

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Garruk Relentless

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Future Sight
1 Recurring Nightmare

3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Phyrexian Tower

sb::
1 Bribery
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Krosan Grip
2 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cranial Extraction
2 Toxic Deluge


You missed 4 x GSZ right ?

Shall I suggest playing stain the mind instead of usual Cranial Extraction or Memoricide ?

[Arianrhod]

You missed 4 x GSZ right ?

Shall I suggest playing stain the mind instead of usual Cranial Extraction or Memoricide ?

Nope, no Zeniths in the blue list. No space, also a ton of non-green creatures that can't be fetched anyway makes it awkward. Basically your "zenith" in that deck is Garruk Relentless. He's easy to flip, and then he goes Survivaling from there. Otherwise, just natural card advantage from Jace/Thief/Top/Future Sight/etc. I originally had a pair of Zeniths in the deck and they were godawful every game.

Stain is....weird. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I think it would be fine in something like Scapewish where you have a bunch of random ramp dorks laying around, but the problem then is that Slaughter Games is just better. I think that in a combo matchup where you want Stain, you'd rather be swinging with whatever dudes you have to apply pressure, vs tapping them to convoke when you could just running a cheaper cmc option instead.

[uncletiggy]

Queerios- our lists appear to be converging so i'm very curious how your testing goes and look forward to hearing how its going. Im wondering how soft the list is to show and tell, reanimator seems like its winable between the hand disruption and the grave hate but omnitell, sneak and show, and turbo eldrazi seem like they'd be horrible if you get around to testing them id like to hear how your list fairs.

[Ralf]

Nope, no Zeniths in the blue list. No space, also a ton of non-green creatures that can't be fetched anyway makes it awkward. Basically your "zenith" in that deck is Garruk Relentless. He's easy to flip, and then he goes Survivaling from there. Otherwise, just natural card advantage from Jace/Thief/Top/Future Sight/etc. I originally had a pair of Zeniths in the deck and they were godawful every game.

Stain is....weird. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I think it would be fine in something like Scapewish where you have a bunch of random ramp dorks laying around, but the problem then is that Slaughter Games is just better. I think that in a combo matchup where you want Stain, you'd rather be swinging with whatever dudes you have to apply pressure, vs tapping them to convoke when you could just running a cheaper cmc option instead.

Speaking of Scape, here is the brand new list, I'll be featuring @ my LGS:

Temur Kut Fit by Ralf

3 Island
2 Mountain
2 Forest
1 Steam vents
1 Stomping ground
4 Taiga
3 Tropical island
3 Volcanic island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Valakut

4 Veteran explorer
1 Scavenging ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fell
1 Thragtsuk

2 Nevinyral's disk

4 Brainstorm
4 Perilous research
2 Dig Through Time

4 Force of Will
2 Mana Leak
2 Cryptic command

4 Pyroclasm
2 Green Sun Zenith
2 Scapeshift

Sideboard

3 REB
2 Wipe away
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Ravenous trap
1 Flusterstorm
1 Bribery
1 Pithing needle
1 Garruk relentless
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Surgical extraction

[Qweerios]

@Qweerios:

Okay, down the line we go....

4 DRS, 1 Vet, 1 Arbor [ramp core]

I still question the inclusion of Dryad Arbor. I mean, you're not running Deed, so that's fine. But, is Zenithing for Arbor better than holding it for a turn and grabbing Explorer or DRS instead? Note: it may be, I just want thoughts on it.

It may be hand dependent. The only times I think I would feel comfortable zenithing for Arbor in this deck is when you lead Bayou->Zenith->t2 black source + Liliana; or if you have a double Zenith hand and you actively want Teeg or Ooze in the matchup. Actually, I guess t1 Arbor also enables Thoughtseize+ Stoneforge on t2, so maybe it's better than it first looks?

Lets not forget how Arbor turns a fetchland into a Cabal Therapy flashback, can be fetched EoT to swing in with equipments, messes with sacrifice effects, and bumps our T1 plays up to 12. Zenithing for a Arbor is about 1/3rd of my T1 plays, especially against Delver decks with Daze and Wasteland in which landing SFM uncountered as fast as possible is our top priority. All the plays you've named with Arbor are very good and absolutely worth it so I question your doubt.

4 SFM, 1 Jitte, 1 SoFI, 1 Skull

Pretty standard 4x SFM core package. Nothing really to comment on here.

1 Visionary, 1 Ooze, 1 Teeg, 1 Rec Sage, 1 E.Wit, 1 Sigarda

The rest of the Zenith package.

Visionary is your standard 'go-to', I take it. Card's basically always good value, so I guess that's fine. The only issue is that it's very low-impact -- lower than Wall of Blossoms, even, although obviously Visionary can actually attack and suit up, which matters. I'm not sure if this is better than another Ooze, though...something a little higher-impact. You can't recur the Visionary, so the ETB trigger matters a little less, and the Visionary is still only replacing itself...it's not actual card advantage, and you're spending a Zenith to get it most likely, which doesn't feel worthwhile to me.

Visionary is basically a cantripping Cabal Therapy when you need a body for it. In some matchups you only care about drawing a card off your discard and draw into lock pieces.

I wonder if Strangleroot Geist might be better than Visionary for this slot, since you're a little more aggressive and it could lead to some blowouts with stranded equipment.

I too have been pondering over Geist and I am still unsure which is better between drawing a card and an undying 2/1 body with haste. Geist seems a little too cute however. Drawing a card is universally good while a 3/2 body isn't always relevant.

All of the rest of the bullets feel fine to me, although I still like Rhino, especially for a list like this that can suit him up. With DRS and Ooze, you can control opposing Goyfs, and Rhino is usually at least on parity with most average Goyfs even without DRS interference. The space may be an issue here, though.

You technically only really -need- Sigarda to win, but I will caution you that in my experience, Sigarda isn't sufficient anymore by herself due to the presence of Council's Judgment offering a powerful, maindeckable answer to her. I wouldn't mind seeing a little bit more threat density here.

4 Decay

While on that subject, is this better than 3 Decay, 1 Council's Judgment? Nic Fit is a deck that is singularly able to use and abuse Council's Judgment, and it feels strange to not have any at all in a white-based nic fit. I dunno. Judgment has greatly impressed me, and I wouldn't leave him without at least one (I prefer two).

If I could play 6 Decays I would. I mostly need removal for Delvers. Every deck in the format can still die to one or multiple Delvers so I consider uncounterable removal extremely valuable. Judgment does not compare.

4 Thoughtseize + 4 Therapy

I....meh. If you're going to run Thoughtseize in addition to Therapy, I almost feel like it has to be as a full 8pack. While that's not my preference, you do have Liliana to pitch the extra midgame discard spells to. I would almost rather just run with the Thoughtseizes and cut the Therapies for extra removal + an extra threat or two, but I'm not sure how ideal that is.

I just realized something. Where are your Lingering Souls? You're running Therapy, Liliana, and equipment. That's all begging for Souls. You don't have a ton of sac fodder for Therapy flashback right now...basically just extra Stoneforges, Visionary, Explorer, RecSage, and Witness. Maybe Arbor? I would say either trim down Therapies to maybe a 2-of (add in a pair of Council's Judgments? or 1 Judgment 1 threat?) or else shave elsewhere for Souls. Hmm.

I considered Souls but I simply cannot find the space. The GSZ package is much faster and reliable at granting valuable creatures for Therapy and including souls would encroach on the creature package. Souls are arguably better than cards like Visionary and Geist though. I will definitely reconsider Souls.

4 Zenith, obv

2 Sylvan Lib

Hm. Why 2 Library over 1 Lib 1 Top? Library is pretty dead in multiples, and you still have all of the traditionally Nic Fit deck manipulation to get multiple Top spins per turn. I'm far from disagreeing with Sylvan's presence (hell, I've thought about running it as a 1-of even alongside Deed, and you don't have that headache here).

I am switching back and forth between the 2nd Library and the 4th Liliana so far. I thought about the Top/Library split but I don't because part of my plan against Miracles is to Tutor up a Needle and neuter Top. They use it much better than we do and shutting it down with a non-creature permanent is very powerful. Library is the more powerful card in a vacuum as well so the benefits of drawing one definitely outweigh the drawbacks of drawing two given the slim odds.

3 Liliana

Makes sense here. Again, I think I would like her better with Souls, but she's far from bad in this list. You have plenty of pitch fodder for her to play around your hand, and she does what you need her to do.

Manabase

Is the pair of Marsh Flats better than a pair of Wastelands would be for this deck?

To be fair, you can't really compared colored mana to colorless mana. Lands can be difficult to come by sometimes so I'd rather not cut any lands. Wasteland loses most of its appeal when your opponent has basic lands in his deck too. Not only will he get to play around them, you will probably end up giving them to him...

Sideboard

You have Zealous Persecution too? Jeez. Seriously, Souls tho.

I'm not sure the pair of Duress is needed. You already have 8+(4)+3 discard avenues maindeck, and I see the 4th Liliana is also hanging out in your sideboard. I don't think you need 18 discard spells in your deck. If you're dead set on having the extra discard, I think I would make it a pair of Hymn to Tourachs over a pair of Duresses. Your manabase is already base-black for fast Lilianas.

Duress is much better than Hymn as a sideboard card. Hymn is only good against something like Burn where you care for their hand size but the cards are so redundant that it generally doesn't matter what you discard. Factor in the fact that Therapy is 100% better with hand information and you have a clear winner between Hymn and Duress. Having 10 1CMC discard spells against combo decks postboard isn't too much either considering that most blue decks play 8 free counterspells and have access to an additional 2-6 soft counters at 1 mana postboard. Compared to the other decks in the format, this one is low on disruption...

Surgical is a fine role-player for what it does. I think the card would be strengthened overall by swapping Marsh -> Wasteland, as well.

1 ET is fine, since it's just a 2nd copy of your bullets. I actually have come to believe that more than 2 copies of ET is wrong in [decks]. The lone exception would be something like a bomberman combo deck or painter or something. If we're talking tutor board, 1-2 is correct imo.

Needle -- over Revoker? Explain. Do you want both, perhaps? They hate on slightly different things, but I think that they're both effects you want access to.

Needle is one of the most important SB cards this deck can play. It is our only form of land hate against cards like Eye of Ugin and various Dark Depths decks. Unlike Revoker, Needle doesn't die to Terminus or StP and shuts down Miracle's most important card. Generally speaking, when you want a Needle effect you want the effect over a potential body because bodies have severe weaknesses that we cannot afford in a matchup where a Needle effect is required.

Canonist, Spirit of the Lab, Aegis -- Aegis is the only one I don't like here. I don't like Ivory Masks that can just be burned away. Sure, if you have Safekeeper out -- but then that turns every burn spell the opponent has into a Sinkhole, which is pretty awful. That also requires you to have both pieces, which seems like you're stretching. I would rather run a singleton Leyline of Sanctity over Aegis -- it's not like you can't just cast the Leyline, and it's susceptible to a heck of a lot less removal.

I admit that Aegis doesn't see much play now that I don't play Pod anymore. Leyline is indeed a better replacement. Overall I think I will dedicate the SB slot to something more worthwhile such as a 2nd Needle.

Choke's fine, Plague is fine, Liliana is fine...

Safekeeper is a card that I've dallied with a couple of times. I do like the guy, he's just kind of hard to find the space for. The problem with Safekeeper is that you need extra lands laying about to actually use him, and/or you need some kind of land-base recursion package. You don't have either here, so I'm not sure how he's going to work out for you. The card is powerful...his effect is definitely good. It's just dangerous in this deck, I feel, because it could easily be turned against you.

If I had to make room for the Souls, I would recommend these cuts:

1 Visionary
1 RecSage
1 Sylvan Library

+3 Souls

Additionally, I would go -1 Decay, +1 Council's Judgment.

While I like the idea of Strangleroot, I think that Souls is much more important and also invalidates Geist's purpose to a degree. Visionary is still a weak link, so that comes out. Sylvan is a source of card advantage and quality, but drawing a Lingering Souls will often generate as much CA as a Library would, and, again, I don't like Library as a 2-of. RecSage is the most painful cut (and I would try to find room for her in the sideboard, for sure), but I strongly believe that 3 Souls is the correct number, and cutting a 3-drop for a 3-drop is probably the best option. There's an argument to be made for cutting Witness over Sage, but I think that Witness is a little more important since she can get back destroyed equipment, discarded/countered Lilianas, sideboard hate, etc.

I agree with you that Rec Sage might not be the best mainboard card. I simply don't like to have zero out to Batterskull preboard (especially on a Nemesis) or losing to Counterbalance if I can't find a Decay but I have to admit that those are fringe scenarios and SB sage is probably more appropriate.

I'm going to split my post into two chunks -- here's the one dedicated to Qweerios's list. I'll now begin one for my list(s), and meta predictions for Eternal Weekend and GPNJ (I will be attending both).

Thank you for your feedback on the deck. You have definitely confirmed some of my doubts. I will test accordingly.

@Uncletiggy,

SnT and OmniShow decks are good matchups. I have won a fair share of G1s against them and G2 is even better. The big problem with those matchups however is that we concede to a T0 Leyline of Sanctity. There is simply no non-blue alternatives and packing cards to remove it is futile as our chances of drawing them are low and our opponents will probably have combo'ed off by the time we land our first discard spell.

As for Reanimator, again, non-blue decks don't have many options against fast combo decks with counter backup. We have plenty of GY hate and disruption but we have to rely on them to have a slow beginning in order to have a chance. There is simply not many options against those decks unless you dedicate entire portions of your sideboard for very specific matchups (Leyline of the Void, Surgical Extraction, Extirpate, Mindbreak Trap, Angel of Despair...)

Against 12-Post discard has more weight and we actually get time to assemble a strong board and clock our opponent. We cannot beat their topdecking abilities but we can needle their Tops, Ugin, Maps, and discard their Titans and Eldrazies while we build up a Batterskull and hopefully kill them in time.

[maharis]

Has anyone given any thought to Mystical Teachings in BUG lists, especially those featuring Notion Thief, Venser, Clique, Abrupt Decay, etc? It seems really strong since we have access to so much mana and lets us play a lot of stuff on our opponent's turn.

[Firepaw3]

went 5-3 (50th) at the Worchester open with scapewish yesterday, lost to 2 reanimator players and a youngpyro rug delver deck
Jake esper deathblade 2-0
Will reanimator 0-2
James BUG delver 2-1
Alex YP-RUG delver 1-2
Charlie miracles 2-0
Zac Goblin stompy 2-1
Sam Elves 2-0
Conner Reanimator 0-2

despite the reanimator match-up being almost unbeatable every game against them today was super close, slaughtergames and vexing shusher makes the MU much easier to deal with after they resolve a threat.
My RUG match was also very close, with g3 ending with both of us at 1 life, but he had the stifle for my huntmaster flip
Overall this was a great tournament, I didnt get to test much prior so I was worried about treasure cruise, but it wasn't too problematic every time it resolved
Had I known how much reanimator was in the room, I would have played a Junk list, however i'm still convinced scapewish is the best iteration of nic fit in the overall meta
the list:
Maindeck (61)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Wood Elves
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Vexing Shusher

3 Pernicious Deed
3 Senseis Divining top

2 Slaughter Games
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Burning Wish
4 Green Suns Zenith
2 Scapeshift

3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Badlands
4 Taiga
2 Stomping Grounds
2 Bayou
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
Sideboard (15)
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Slaughter Games
1 Innocent Blood
1 Scapeshift
2 Thoughtseize
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pyroclasm
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Massacre

[Arianrhod]

How important were the Slaughter Games, and did you miss Eternal Witness?

Also, did you ever wish for the Deluge?

[Firepaw3]

How important were the Slaughter Games, and did you miss Eternal Witness?

Also, did you ever wish for the Deluge?

slaughtergames have always been good for me when I draw it, It saved me from dying against elves g1 and stopped a t3 jace against miracles(threw a snap infront of veteran)
I may be biased because I've never drawn them when it hasnt been useful

I think this was the first tournament I actually wished for toxic, I always consider putting in damnation over it to deal with goyfs and other big creatures, but the one mana difference makes the life worth it, especially with shusher in play

There was never a time this week I wished I could GSZ for ewit, most decks play DRS so getting things out of the yard right now is harder than ever, and wishes are exiled if they resolve so the only things to get back are creatures you could GSZ for therapies that are not worth it late game, deeds, and countered wishes. The deeds are nice but spending 6-7 mana to just get a deed in play that turn wont do it, better to search with top&searches for another deed of win con, and with shusher you just have to be more conservative with your "win the game" spells

[MrIggins]

Have you been bringing in Wolf Run in matchups other than Miracles?

[jbone2016]

My Current AzBan Wish List for SCG Mpls (and possible GP New Jersey)

Creatures (14)
4 Veteran Explorer (possibly cut one for another fattie)
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Thragtusk

Spells (25)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Thoughtseize (moved to main to get extraction effects in board)
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Maelstrom Pulse (possibly change to a Council's judgement)
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Batterskull
3 Living Wish
1 Golgari Charm (or Toxic Deluge)

Land (22)
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas

Sideboard/Wishboard
2 Tsunami (miracles/delver/shardless)
2 Mindbreak Trap (storm)
1 Cranial Extraction (combo/miracles)
1 Memorcide (combo/miracles)
1 Humility
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Wasteland
1 Ashen Rider
1 Fleshbag Maruader
1 Vampire Hexmage (aka the Jace Killer)
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Revoker

Pretty close to what I've had it for months now. (Other then Stoneforge build I had)
Last local event I went 4-1 and split. Beating Miracles twice, D+T, Reanimator. Lost to mono-red Sneak Attack.

[Qweerios]

I honestly can't get behind 4 Vets and 3 GSZ... The latter is by far the better card.

[uncletiggy]

Im gonna agree with switching the split on those two an extra gsz may as well be another bomb plus still serving as ramp and utility.

As for the board it seems stuffed with 4 mana reactive spells even though I love a good tsunami that plus the extraction effects really seems like a huge mana investment out of the board cheaper answers could prove worth exploring. Most glaring being the mindbreak traps i dont think the card is good enough and i could see another teeg plus somethong else taking their place.

[JanoschEausH]

So, everyone is jumping on the Abzan train. I really like this deck. It has game against almost everything that plays fair. Full of motivation, I began testing various Abzan-Fit-Lists until it hit me again for the very same reason I abandoned this deck in the past. You cannot win against Combo. This deck is a bye for any decent Storm Pilot. If you think squeezing Mindbreak Traps in the board will save you, your wrong. I play Storm myself, I know alot people that also play Storm. If you want a chance playing GWB, you need to pack Thalia at least or you are dead. Fact.

A few posts before, Arianrhod analyzed the upcoming metagame:

upswing:

RUG Delver, fast combo (TES, ANT, Belcher, etc)
Burn, UR Delver
High Tide

holding position:

Mirakuru
BUG/UWR Delver
u/x.dec (stoneblade holdouts, shardless [both types], etc)

downturn:

Sneak, Elves
graveyard strategies
Jund

If this prediction holds true, I would never touch Abzan for the GP, since at least High Tide and Fast Combo will ruin your day. I don't think people will start realizing how good fast combo is, AFTER the GP. In my opinion, if you want to have success at a GP, you need to play a deck that has game against almost everything. If you just want to have fun, you can play what you want, of course.

[Ralf]

So, everyone is jumping on the Abzan train. I really like this deck. It has game against almost everything that plays fair. Full of motivation, I began testing various Abzan-Fit-Lists until it hit me again for the very same reason I abandoned this deck in the past. You cannot win against Combo. This deck is a bye for any decent Storm Pilot. If you think

Play more/Mulligan more.

I truly hate to be the guy saying that.

G1 = Resolving a Teeg is game. Most ANT list does not have any answer to it MD. Even if, your chances to live until T3 (T2 with DRS accel) + GSZ are poor, storm does not always have the kill T1 or T2 hands. Not to mention that they are somehow weak to disruption (discard).
If you are playing against TES, a T2 SFM -> batterskull is able to beat the goblin path.

G2 & G3 = are dependant of your sideboarding strategy. If you play Qweerios' list your overall MU must be closer to 55-60 % than any other abzan list because he is playing lots of discruption MD (8 discard + 2 from the side + 2/3 hatebear + 2 surgical extract) not counting the 4 DRS and the Ooze.

Combo is tough, and Abzan list might be one of (if not) the best Nic Fit version against combo because you have access to disruption & hatebear.

[Arianrhod]

High Tide is surprisingly winnable depending on the type of hate you're packing in the sideboard. While powerful and consistent, it tends to struggle heavily with the types of hate that Nic Fit is renowned for being able to field (a resolved Extraction / Slaughter Games is usually game over, for example -- to say nothing of Tsunami or Nether Void).

Fast Combo is the blue tax. It's just that simple. If you want to beat something like Storm, you need to:

A: play Death and Taxes and pray that you live until turn 2 (note that at this point you're playing an entire deck of hatebears and lose to virtually anything else)
B: play nonblue midrange/control and hope that your hands align vs their hands and that they don't kill you immediately
C: play a blue deck

Note how only C is actually the good option.

Let's go a level deeper.

The various Nic Fits have (in some cases wildly) varying matchups against different decks. Consider vs combo:

Blue: Storm, Reanimator
White: Elves
Red: Sneak, High Tide

Blue picks up percentage against Nic Fit's historically worst matchups. Red molests Sneak and High Tide based off of the strength of Slaughter Games -- it should be noted that if Sneak just goes off on turn 1 and/or they are playing Leyline of Sanctity, that goes right back to being unwinnable. White's premier strength is vs Elves, but what you don't see here is that white picks up modest percentages against most combo just by playing the DnT game. Sometimes you go Therapy into Canonist into Zenith->Teeg into Mindcensor and just stare at them. I certainly wouldn't consider white favored against combo (other than Elves, which is surprisingly very beatable with white), but it's also not as UNFAVORED as the other colors are vs their non-specialized combos.

I'm high on Abzan for the GP for the same reason that I'm low on BUG, though: red decks. UR Delver and Burn are going to be two of the most popular decks in the room across all tables/standings. Both of those decks historically do well at GPs, they're cheap and easy to build -and- to play at at least a modest level of efficacy, and this has only become more the case this year with the rise of Treasure Cruise and Modern Burn, which is highly analogous to Legacy Burn (aka, more players have access to the format).

BUG is the more rounded deck with better matchups in general, I would argue. But Abzan smashes Delver, smashes aggro, and smashes Burn -- and that's where I want to be for a Grand Prix, where those three things are going to make up a substantial part of the room.

[Cliq]

Play more/Mulligan more.

I truly hate to be the guy saying that.

G1 = Resolving a Teeg is game. Most ANT list does not have any answer to it MD. Even if, your chances to live until T3 (T2 with DRS accel) + GSZ are poor, storm does not always have the kill T1 or T2 hands. Not to mention that they are somehow weak to disruption (discard).
If you are playing against TES, a T2 SFM -> batterskull is able to beat the goblin path.

G2 & G3 = are dependant of your sideboarding strategy. If you play Qweerios' list your overall MU must be closer to 55-60 % than any other abzan list because he is playing lots of discruption MD (8 discard + 2 from the side + 2/3 hatebear + 2 surgical extract) not counting the 4 DRS and the Ooze.

Combo is tough, and Abzan list might be one of (if not) the best Nic Fit version against combo because you have access to disruption & hatebear.

I think the BUG lists are quite a bit better vs. combo due to the ability to board in Force. Reanimator and sneak&show seem about even pre-board and favored post-board. Elves is about 40/60 in their favor, but has never felt unwinnable. Typically if they don't get the nut draw and hoof you immediately, you are fine. I actually haven't been running into much storm at all, so I can't really speak to it. The matchup against the glass cannon decks like oops! all spells and belcher is not great and they usually win game 1, but sometimes you therapy them out and they just die without doing anything.

I'm still playing with meddling mage in the sideboard, I really like that it does double-duty against miracles but haven't concluded whether it's actually good or not.

[ironclad8690]

Hey guys, I am a punishing Jund player and I am thinking about jumping ship and going bigger due to the state of things right now. Would you guys say that punishing nic fit would be a strong choice in the meta right now? It seems like deed would be really solid against many of the high tier decks, and there is more inevitability with nic fit than punishing jund. Rogue factor is always nice too.

[Arianrhod]

Hey guys, I am a punishing Jund player and I am thinking about jumping ship and going bigger due to the state of things right now. Would you guys say that punishing nic fit would be a strong choice in the meta right now? It seems like deed would be really solid against many of the high tier decks, and there is more inevitability with nic fit than punishing jund. Rogue factor is always nice too.

I'm not the most versed in that version of the deck, but I would imagine that Punishing Fit is probably pretty well positioned right now. Pretty much every Nic Fit is, I think.

[Cliq]

How does everyone feel about Phyrexian Tower these days? Basically, the options are:

9 fetches, 6 basics, 6 duals
8 fetches, 6 basics, 6 duals, Tower
9 fetches, 5 basics, 6 duals, Tower
9 fetches, 6 basics, 5 duals, Tower (least appealing)

I love that it can give you incredibly explosive turns, but sometimes you really need the shuffle as BUG. I'm currently running 2 forest, 2 swamps, 1 island, Tower, but I'm not convinced it's correct.

[Arianrhod]

How does everyone feel about Phyrexian Tower these days? Basically, the options are:

9 fetches, 6 basics, 6 duals
8 fetches, 6 basics, 6 duals, Tower
9 fetches, 5 basics, 6 duals, Tower
9 fetches, 6 basics, 5 duals, Tower (least appealing)

I love that it can give you incredibly explosive turns, but sometimes you really need the shuffle as BUG. I'm currently running 2 forest, 2 swamps, 1 island, Tower, but I'm not convinced it's correct.

I do:

6 fetch, 7 basics (3/2/2), 7 duals (4/2/1), 1 tower, 1 karakas -- white builds
6 fetch, 7 basics (3/2/2), 8 duals (3/3/2), 1 tower -- blue builds [[subset: sometimes -1 basic +1 mikokoro]]

I won't list Scapewish's manabase since that's pretty unique among Nic Fit manabases.

I find 6 basics to be the lowest you can go and still reliably get your desired basics consistently with an Explorer trigger. I would not go to 5 basics if you're planning on setting off an Explorer reliably within the first three turns of the game.

Usually, I prefer having more duals over more fetches. I like to automatic edge this gives me in playing vs Stifles, DRS, and sometimes the lifeloss saved is not irrelevant. I do sometimes regret not having more shuffles for Top, but I'm usually happier with fewer fetches than the other way around in testing. Note: if you're playing DRS yourself, this equation changes a bit. Same with Treasure Cruise.

[Cliq]

I do:

6 fetch, 7 basics (3/2/2), 7 duals (4/2/1), 1 tower, 1 karakas -- white builds
6 fetch, 7 basics (3/2/2), 8 duals (3/3/2), 1 tower -- blue builds [[subset: sometimes -1 basic +1 mikokoro]]

I won't list Scapewish's manabase since that's pretty unique among Nic Fit manabases.

I find 6 basics to be the lowest you can go and still reliably get your desired basics consistently with an Explorer trigger. I would not go to 5 basics if you're planning on setting off an Explorer reliably within the first three turns of the game.

Usually, I prefer having more duals over more fetches. I like to automatic edge this gives me in playing vs Stifles, DRS, and sometimes the lifeloss saved is not irrelevant. I do sometimes regret not having more shuffles for Top, but I'm usually happier with fewer fetches than the other way around in testing. Note: if you're playing DRS yourself, this equation changes a bit. Same with Treasure Cruise.

I'm playing with 4 copies of DRS, brainstorm, and only one Zenith, so I think I'd simply not have enough shuffle effects. I do agree that in the day or two that I've been playing with only 5 basics it hasn't felt like enough; I'll probably chop a fetch for the Tower or just not run it.

[ironclad8690]

I have been playing with both Qweerios Rock list and Arian's Abzan list, and I have to say both are really fun to play. I have been doing well with each of them too, but I haven't faced too many tier 1 decks yet.

I think I am going to narrow in on one list and hone it a bit before SCG Oakland, and then I will post my results after the tourney. Hopefully I can get enough practice in to become proficient at one of the decks before the event.

[Qweerios]

Went 3-1 at a local tournament today using my Abzan deck with a few suggested modifications (Lingering Souls). I tied for second place with the Elves player I lost to. Here's what I used:


1 Dryad Arbor
1 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Abrupt Decay

4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Lingering Souls

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

4 Liliana of the Veil

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
//SB
2 Duress
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Sylvan Library
1 Choke
1 Engineered Plague
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sylvan Safekeeper


2-1 vs. Burn

Nothing interesting to say here. Lots of discard into equipments and deathrite activations.

2-0 vs. UWR Delver (with TC)

He drew lots of cards, cantrip a whole lot, and cast a few force of wills. In the end he didn't find the right answers at the right time and lost to Decay and SFM/Liliana.

0-2 vs. Elves

Lost G1 when Symbiote shut down Jitte. Had a close G2 but I lost the topdeck war to a Natural Order. Once again a Symbiote was shutting down my Jitte as well.

2-0 vs. OmniShow (with DTT)

One Thoughtseize and Lingering Souls + DRS beats get there in time during G1 (lucky). G2 my opponent opens with 2 Leylines but I have all the hatebears and Liliana. We played a 3rd game pre-board for fun and I won quite easily with discard + Teeg.

Going forward I didn't get to see Lingering Souls in action. There are a few cards in the SB that are questionable and that I might not keep on supporting.

-Spirit of the Labyrinth is underwhelming as a hatebear and I think I'd rather double up on Canonist, Teeg, or anything else really.
-Sylvan Safekeeper is quite narrow as well. The second Teeg is probably better against Miracles too.
-Sylvan Library doesn't feel like a SB card and I could really benefit from having it in the main again. Perhaps over the 3rd Lingering Souls as they serve a similar purpose (AKA: grind and card advantage/quality).
-Choke is very specific to Miracles as I can't afford to side it in against any fast blue decks, which is to say: all of them. A 2nd Needle sounds much better.
-Reclamation Sage is almost always sided in (Eidolon, Vortex, Omniscience, Sneak Attack, Leyline, and Batterskull is the big one).
-A couple of Swords to Plowshares in the SB would definitely seal the deal against Delver decks and help in the Elves matchup.

Also, I really question the use of Ooze as a mainboard card. Aside from having a better game 1 against Lands.dec and Dredge, I find Ooze to pale in comparison to DRS. He is simply too slow vs. Reanimator (and arguably Dredge) and DRS gets the same job done for less. You don't want to tutor him against Storm G1 because Teeg ends it. I understand that he is good against Goyf and DRS but those cards simply aren't a problem for us, besides, you can always fight them with DRS. Ooze is great against Punishing Fire but we can always rely on Sigarda for G1. Against Treasure Cruise, contrary to what some people might believe, Ooze doesn't do much. In short, I haven't GSZ'd for an Ooze in a very long time (pre-Nemesis era maybe?). What do you guys think of Ooze at the moment?

[Ralf]

Went 3-1 at a local tournament today using my Abzan deck with a few suggested modifications (Lingering Souls). I tied for second place with the Elves player I lost to. Here's what I used:

Going forward I didn't get to see Lingering Souls in action. There are a few cards in the SB that are questionable and that I might not keep on supporting.

-Spirit of the Labyrinth is underwhelming as a hatebear and I think I'd rather double up on Canonist, Teeg, or anything else really.
-Sylvan Safekeeper is quite narrow as well. The second Teeg is probably better against Miracles too.
-Sylvan Library doesn't feel like a SB card and I could really benefit from having it in the main again. Perhaps over the 3rd Lingering Souls as they serve a similar purpose (AKA: grind and card advantage/quality).
-Choke is very specific to Miracles as I can't afford to side it in against any fast blue decks, which is to say: all of them. A 2nd Needle sounds much better.
-Reclamation Sage is almost always sided in (Eidolon, Vortex, Omniscience, Sneak Attack, Leyline, and Batterskull is the big one).
-A couple of Swords to Plowshares in the SB would definitely seal the deal against Delver decks and help in the Elves matchup.

Also, I really question the use of Ooze as a mainboard card. Aside from having a better game 1 against Lands.dec and Dredge, I find Ooze to pale in comparison to DRS. He is simply too slow vs. Reanimator (and arguably Dredge) and DRS gets the same job done for less. You don't want to tutor him against Storm G1 because Teeg ends it. I understand that he is good against Goyf and DRS but those cards simply aren't a problem for us, besides, you can always fight them with DRS. Ooze is great against Punishing Fire but we can always rely on Sigarda for G1. Against Treasure Cruise, contrary to what some people might believe, Ooze doesn't do much. In short, I haven't GSZ'd for an Ooze in a very long time (pre-Nemesis era maybe?). What do you guys think of Ooze at the moment?

- SoL might be underwhelming in your latest list. +1 Canonist
- Sylvan safekeeper is surely better in Maverick along with KOTR & utility lands.com -> +1 Teeg
- Choke is also good vs xxxblade.deck but the card in general is very blue-centered. Pithing needle might be an overall better choice.
- I don't get the point of Reclamation Sage. In your list (without POD) Qasali Pridemage > Reclamation Sage. The only case where RS > QP is when the body (2/1) matters. Up to you.
- Ooze is not shining in your deck because unlike P.Fire builds you don't get to put as much as creatures in graveyards. However, I found that in many fair matches when you are trading creatures with your opponent, an unanswered Ooze is usually game (the later it lands, the better). Not to mention how it single-handedly crushes Tarmo (which is not a corner case as you are only packing 4 spot removal). You were paired with 3 combo deck (I consider burn as a combo deck ), don't dismiss him too quickly.
- a pair of STP could also be a nice option. Unfortunately, space is tight.

[Arianrhod]

My opinion on Scavenging Ooze has been well-documented. Of course, then I go and run him in my Thune list anyway, but that's mostly because he offers strong synergy with Thune aside from his generic semi-utility. In non-Thune lists, I don't think I would touch him. I knew Caleb Durward just stated in his latest video series on Nic Fit that he believes Nic Fit to be the best possible shell for Scavenging Ooze. I counter with Koboldstorm is the best possible shell for Kobolds of Kher Keep -- but that doesn't make Kobolds of Kher Keep a good card. Just because Nic Fit might be the best deck for Ooze does not make Ooze good enough for Nic Fit -- that's a logical fallacy.

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selvala, Explorer Returned
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
2 Spike Feeder
2 Siege Rhino
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Council's Judgment

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Abzan Charm

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Sylvan Library

2 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower

sb::
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Thoughtseize
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Krosan Grip
2 Baneslayer Angel

-----

This is my latest list, which I am preparing for Eternal Weekend (Legacy/Vintage Champs) this weekend, with an eye towards GP NJ beyond.

I've cut Spike Weaver in exchange for the maindeck Reclamation Sage. The deck has shifted to be much more GSZ-oriented than it has been in the past since I've cut Rectors and relegated Baneslayers to the sideboard for matchups where I need air superiority. Weaver has gotten worse in the current metagame, and the deck has shifted to have fewer non-Thune +1/+1 counter synergies. Before, with Varolz and Primeval Titan -> Gavony Township, Weaver was a powerhouse -- now, he's just a good tool to have access to, but I think that I would much rather have the maindeck RecSage at this point. As Qweerios noted, he was siding her in almost every matchup, which is usually the sign that a card should be maindeck.

Abzan Charm continues to overperform. I can't find room for more than 2, but it's a card I would highly recommend in general.

1st Sylvan over 3rd Top. The more I've thought about it, the more correct I think this is. Sylvan is just such a hilariously powerful card...especially in a deck with as much lifegain as this one has. Yes, sometimes it will get Deeded away. That didn't stop people from playing Disk alongside Necro, and it shouldn't stop us from playing Sylvan.

4th Bayou over 1st Marsh Flats / 7th fetch. I knew I wanted another colored source, and I've periodically had trouble getting black. The 4th Bayou balances the Karakas nicely. Bayou is also the land that we most want in our opening hand -- and 7 duals / 7 basics is a pleasing ratio.

As for the sideboard, I want as many generalist cards for EW/NJ as possible, as compared to my usual, more silver bullet-ish approach. The 3rd Decay is mostly respect for the Swiftspear decks, but was split off from the 2nd Krosan Grip that I had previously as it basically does the same thing but comes in for a few extra matchups, so it's a good hedge.

2 Nihils because I think that card is horrifically underappreciated at the moment. Reanimator and Dredge are both popular, Nihil helps deaden Snapcaster and Goyf, and it sort of keeps Cruise under control ish but not really.

3 Seize because Seize is the most generalist anti-combo card there is. There isn't actually a combo deck that doesn't suffer from getting Thoughtseized, unless they open Leyline of Sanctity, and then we likely aren't winning anyway unless the bears get there.

2 Carpets to help ramp vs miracles in absence of Explorers, and as ramp spells 5-6 for vs Delver decks. Pretty standard....when the card is good, it's nuts, and I think that it's good right now.

2 Mindcensor + 2 Canonist -- as mentioned previously, this hatebear package rounds out the discard nicely. These 4 cards are pretty effective against Elves when backed up by the flurry of discard, removal, and sweep. They're also effective against basically any non-sneak and show combo. I know walking into this room that I'm softer than usual against Sneak. I'm basically gambling that the deck is out of favor at the moment and that I can dodge it. If I do get paired vs it, I have a sideboard plan...but it's likely not good enough and I will need some luck to win it.

Decay and Grip I've already mentioned -- good vs miracles, DnT, 'Blade, and some fringe decks.

2 Baneslayers for air superiority in some matchups. These babies are how I solved the Shardless matchup a few months ago, because fuck Baleful Strix...first strike is a relevant ability. They're also as good vs burn and delver as they've ever been, and they do give me something to do vs Reanimator / Sneak that's better than Thragtusk (protection from Griselbrand).

--------------------

Oh, and for anyone who's curious, here's my vintage list:

3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Notion Thief
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Blightsteel Colossus

1 Lightning Bolt
1 Fire // Ice

4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Mental Misstep
1 Echoing Truth

1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key

3 Dack Fayden
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tezzeret the Seeker

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Dig Through Time

1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Library of Alexandria

//sb
1 Darkblast
3 Ingot Chewer
1 Mountain
1 Energy Flux
2 Pyroblast
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Grafdigger's Cage

Fully owned / 0 proxy =D

Still trying to iron out a couple of contentious slots / the sideboard.

[Cliq]

Here's Caleb's BUG nic fit video, for those interested: http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-calebd-legacy-bug-nic-fit/

[Qweerios]

@Ralf,

Reclamation Sage, unlike Qasali, stays in play after the effect. You get to generate card advantage by having a body to beat your opponent and carry equipments. The body is especially relevant against Batterskull if you have a Therapy in your GY because you get to target Batterskull and flashback therapy naming it.

As for StP, I am currently comparing them to Souls. StP is better than Souls against almost every deck G1 while souls only truly shines against Miracles. I understand the synergy of Souls with Equipments, Therapy, and Liliana but I fail to see the need for them aside from flying over Nemesis and maybe stall Delvers. I think I'd rather have the additional removal G1 for cards like Delver, Bob, DRS, Mom, etc. than the occasional Lingering Souls against Miracles and opposing Lilianas. Testing will tell.

[Cliq]

I think ooze is really good in the creature-heavy lists, but I don't like it at all in Caleb's list because it's totally reliant on his opponent playing a bunch of creatures. I'm also not sure I'd want to run his list the way he has it with no DRS, but I'd have to try it out.

[ironclad8690]

Arianrhod, I have been testing your list and loving it, but one of my biggest pain-points has been daze. I analyzed the curve (counting GSZ as 1, even though we will always be casting it for more):

1: 14
2: 5
3: 13
4: 2
5: 4
6: 1

As you can see, it tends to be a bit heavy on 3 drops.

I am loving the Abzan Charms for their versatility, and Council's Judgment is nice as well, but it seems like perhaps there could be a tightening of the curve. What do you guys think?

Also, I know this is lame, but since I only have 2 Bayou, do you think an additional Savannah and Scrubland could be added to similar effect without doing too much harm to the manabase?

Edit: it is also very possible that I am not playing around Daze correctly/playing around Daze too much. I am sequencing my plays so that the most important cards are cast around Daze while running less important cards into it.

[Arianrhod]

Arianrhod, I have been testing your list and loving it, but one of my biggest pain-points has been daze. I analyzed the curve (counting GSZ as 1, even though we will always be casting it for more):

1: 14
2: 5
3: 13
4: 2
5: 4
6: 1

As you can see, it tends to be a bit heavy on 3 drops.

I am loving the Abzan Charms for their versatility, and Council's Judgment is nice as well, but it seems like perhaps there could be a tightening of the curve. What do you guys think?

Also, I know this is lame, but since I only have 2 Bayou, do you think an additional Savannah and Scrubland could be added to similar effect without doing too much harm to the manabase?

Edit: it is also very possible that I am not playing around Daze correctly/playing around Daze too much. I am sequencing my plays so that the most important cards are cast around Daze while running less important cards into it.

I frequently just blast through Daze, honestly. They don't have it more often than they do, and even if they do, they're trading a turn for your spell depending on board state. Nic Fit is very good at forcing control mirrors -- if the Delver deck is trying to play any amount of control game (which they are, by virtue of casting Daze instead of Bolting you), resetting a land is actually a big deal, because it puts us up a further land on them.

The large number of 3-drops is an aspect of Nic Fit theory that I don't think has been talked about very often, actually. A long time ago, the original Rector lists that I was developing didn't really have 3-drops, or 2-drops. It had a lot of 1s, 4s, 5s, and 6s. As such, my Phyrexian Tower hands were batshit insane. However, this came at the cost of normal Therapy/Explorer hands. Oftentimes I'd "go off" with Therapy+Explorer and pass the turn with 3 untapped lands and nothing to do until next turn. This gave my opponents the first crack at their accelerated manabase, which put me at a significant tempo disadvantage.

While there still aren't a large number of playable 2-drops for Nic Fit, I've definitely been actively trying to shave the curve down a bit to increase the number of 3-drops, in order to actually take advantage of Therapy/Explorer hands. It's possible that shaving a Judgment for a 3rd Decay main could be correct. I'm going to run with the 2-2-2 removal suite at Eternal Weekend and then I'll reevaluate for GP NJ. Judgment is just such a massive beating on so many decks -- not even necessarily because of the unconditional exile removal (which is good, don't get me wrong), as much as the tempo gain that it causes. IE: if you resolve CJ vs a Batterskull, they HAVE to bounce the Batterksull or you get to eat it. This causes a 1-for-1 that is a tempo 2-for-1, at least...and tempoing something like a Batterskull is a pretty enormous swing, especially if the CJ then eats the Stoneforge that pooped it out.

Abzan Charm's utility is just too overwhelming to consider cutting. I would seriously cut a Judgment before a Charm. That's how much that card has impressed me.

[ironclad8690]

I frequently just blast through Daze, honestly. They don't have it more often than they do, and even if they do, they're trading a turn for your spell depending on board state. Nic Fit is very good at forcing control mirrors -- if the Delver deck is trying to play any amount of control game (which they are, by virtue of casting Daze instead of Bolting you), resetting a land is actually a big deal, because it puts us up a further land on them.

The large number of 3-drops is an aspect of Nic Fit theory that I don't think has been talked about very often, actually. A long time ago, the original Rector lists that I was developing didn't really have 3-drops, or 2-drops. It had a lot of 1s, 4s, 5s, and 6s. As such, my Phyrexian Tower hands were batshit insane. However, this came at the cost of normal Therapy/Explorer hands. Oftentimes I'd "go off" with Therapy+Explorer and pass the turn with 3 untapped lands and nothing to do until next turn. This gave my opponents the first crack at their accelerated manabase, which put me at a significant tempo disadvantage.

While there still aren't a large number of playable 2-drops for Nic Fit, I've definitely been actively trying to shave the curve down a bit to increase the number of 3-drops, in order to actually take advantage of Therapy/Explorer hands. It's possible that shaving a Judgment for a 3rd Decay main could be correct. I'm going to run with the 2-2-2 removal suite at Eternal Weekend and then I'll reevaluate for GP NJ. Judgment is just such a massive beating on so many decks -- not even necessarily because of the unconditional exile removal (which is good, don't get me wrong), as much as the tempo gain that it causes. IE: if you resolve CJ vs a Batterskull, they HAVE to bounce the Batterksull or you get to eat it. This causes a 1-for-1 that is a tempo 2-for-1, at least...and tempoing something like a Batterskull is a pretty enormous swing, especially if the CJ then eats the Stoneforge that pooped it out.

Abzan Charm's utility is just too overwhelming to consider cutting. I would seriously cut a Judgment before a Charm. That's how much that card has impressed me.

Thanks for the input. I am just going to keep testing and run the list in my weekly local for all the practice I can get.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Abzan Charm's utility is just too overwhelming to consider cutting. I would seriously cut a Judgment before a Charm. That's how much that card has impressed me.Totally unrelated anecdotal testing from another format but Abzan Charm has also been awesome in modern angel pod. The most surprising mode for me has been the +1/+1 counters, people just do not expect pump spells in these sorts of formats outside of infect decks which has lead to some huge blowouts.

Whenever I start playing with junk nic-fit decks again I'm going to be testing the crap out of that card. I've been on a punishing maverick/jund kick lately just because they feel like easy mode against the UR deck which a few people have picked up at my store. Your list seems like a ton of fun against them as well.

[honz]

While there still aren't a large number of playable 2-drops for Nic Fit, I've definitely been actively trying to shave the curve down a bit to increase the number of 3-drops, in order to actually take advantage of Therapy/Explorer hands.

I know its been mentioned before, but i think voice of resurgence is a criminally under played card. If you are looking to lower the curve and do something about daze, then voice is the perfect card.

[Arianrhod]

I know its been mentioned before, but i think voice of resurgence is a criminally under played card. If you are looking to lower the curve and do something about daze, then voice is the perfect card.

Voice is sadly not good enough. I've tried him in Nic Fit previously and been nothing but disappointed by the card. A teammate tried him at my behest in Maverick and was equally disappointed. It actually does nothing.

[Zirath]

Voice is sadly not good enough. I've tried him in Nic Fit previously and been nothing but disappointed by the card. A teammate tried him at my behest in Maverick and was equally disappointed. It actually does nothing.

I'm going to dissect really quick why it does nothing since I fear many people will continue to try it, assuming it can just work wonderfully, without evaluating it correctly.

1) It answers removal and interacts well with Deed: When all is said and done, Nic Fit (specifically the Abzan builds) are control decks that rely on a single creature to turn the game around. With that in mind, how big is your Voice token going to be? 1/1 after deed. Maybe a 2 - 4 at best otherwise. It only really gets big in a situation where we are playing mana derps and that is not a favorable board state.

2) It answers decks that want to use our turn to play the game (i.e. counterspells): This boils down to Miracles, Delver and Stoneblade. Shardless only plays Forces and Abrupt Decay and they have a number of answers (Deluge, Goyf, Jace) to it. Miracles has a number of sweepers and generally doesn't care about the 2/2 anyways. Delver can attack right past the Voice. Stoneblade is the only place where it almost matters but with the addition of TNN, Voice doesn't do much.

To make matters worse, how many Voices are we playing. If we are playing 1, then it does even less. If we play 4, then we have to make cuts. The card doesn't help with our control plan and it doesn't punish the decks it was intended to.

[Arianrhod]

Not sure if any of you will be at Eternal Weekend or not, but if you are, feel free to swing by and say hey. I'll be wearing a pretty recognizable dark red Touhou hoodie with a yin/yang on the back. Table numbers also work.

I'm not sure how much liveposting I'll do. I'll try to keep everyone apprised as best I can...might need to combine a couple of rounds here and there, though.

[starchild]

Not sure if any of you will be at Eternal Weekend or not, but if you are, feel free to swing by and say hey. I'll be wearing a pretty recognizable dark red Touhou hoodie with a yin/yang on the back. Table numbers also work.

I'm not sure how much liveposting I'll do. I'll try to keep everyone apprised as best I can...might need to combine a couple of rounds here and there, though.Look forward to your updates and good luck! :) I'll watch the Live Stream...hope you'll be on camera!

[ironclad8690]

Not sure if any of you will be at Eternal Weekend or not, but if you are, feel free to swing by and say hey. I'll be wearing a pretty recognizable dark red Touhou hoodie with a yin/yang on the back. Table numbers also work.

I'm not sure how much liveposting I'll do. I'll try to keep everyone apprised as best I can...might need to combine a couple of rounds here and there, though.

Go #teamsiegerhino!

[Jain_Mor]

Hey guys and gals!
So I've made a journey from the Junk rock thread to here because:

Treasure cruise delver has made my superior card in hand game non functional, discard and liliana has become worse and bob is now just a slow vulnerable version of treasure cruise :/
Pyromancer has made liliana worse as well and I was finding my self being severely mana constrained a lot especially if my SFM gets killed with equip in hand.

I wanted more mana so I could start effectively casting this stuff
I wanted to focus not on grinding the game to a top deck battle, which I used to win
To a focus on superior board advantage, who cares how many cards they have when they are so behind >:)

So veteran explorer was my answer, but I didn't want to play a deck that depended on it, only utilitised it. I also didn't want to play deed, because I also wanted a lowish curve and wanted to play library instead of top, since I want the card advantage desperately, and I wanted to be able to happily name needle on top against miracles.
So I'm playing toxic deluge instead, and creatures that survive it especially on 1.

I'm also playing lots of life gain as a result (and not thoughtsieze, which incidentally makes library better)

I was pleasantly surprised to see a number of people on here who have independently come to similar conclusions, making me even more confident in the idea:

Abzan Explorer

4 Verd Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh flats
2 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savanah
1 Scrubland
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volraths Stronghold
22

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Greensun's Zenith
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Veteran Explorer
1 Scooze
1 Teeg
1 Glissa
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
3 SFM
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull

3 Cabal therapy
2 IoK
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 engineered Explosives
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Toxic Deluge
2 Sylvan Library
61

2 Duress
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Teeg
1 Siege Rhino
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Sword of L&S
1 Humility

Glissa. Glissa replaces eternal witness for me. She's a must answer for any ground based assault (goyf mongoose,
Swiftspear etc), and even more so if protected by equipment or Safekeeper
She can also impersonate Witness by getting back equipment, spellbomb and lock creature decks out with engineered explosives. The Spellbomb main might be to cute, and should probably be the second rhino

I should probably be playing 4 therapies, but I simply haven't had enough practice with the card yet to be honest and am easing my way there :)

Deck is great against creature swarm decks obviously,
It's sweet against delver if you can get the mana going because of all the life gain and efficiency in the cards, they can cantrip and cruise all they like.

Miracles matchup is pretty simple. Equipment makes all creatures threats, thragtusk is a pain, library is a pain, a teeg with sword or Safekeeper is their worst nightmare and we have needle and revoker and decay etc etc etc

Combo is surprisingly not bad at all, all the discard plus 6 teegs and more hatebears, protected again by discard swords and safekeeper, plus all the graveyard hate, needle and revoker etc

Worst matchup is lands haha and someone at my local plays that, hence the Tsabo's web in my spare side slot :P

True name anytning is a joke, thanks to deluge, rhino and decay for the equipments, as well as explosives on 3.
Don't forget explosives can take out Jace too with a Deathrite shaman

I also thoroughly beat someone on Caleb's bug cruise explorer list, thanks to threat density and needle

Deck is really fun, and powerful. deluge is a house, it's so much cheaper than deed, and we can still make it a plague win if we build our deck right :)

[supremePINEAPPLE]

BUG nic-fit just did it's thing on the first game of the eternal weekend coverage. Instascoop to consecrated sphinx after a long back and forth game against deathblade.

EDIT: Notion thief wins the second game in response to a brainstorm.

[Megadeus]

Instascoop to sphinx lol

[MrIggins]

Sam Castrucci on stream playing Scape at 4-0

[MrIggins]

Those topdecks from the delver player :( also listening to Bob Maher aggressively not knowing how Valakut works was endlessly frustrating.

[Cliq]

BUG nic-fit just did it's thing on the first game of the eternal weekend coverage. Instascoop to consecrated sphinx after a long back and forth game against deathblade.

EDIT: Notion thief wins the second game in response to a brainstorm.

Are these posted anywhere?

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Those topdecks from the delver player :( also listening to Bob Maher aggressively not knowing how Valakut works was endlessly frustrating.Yeah, they've just declared a burn deck with eidolon, goblin guide, and swiftspear to be boss sligh...


Are these posted anywhere?

http://www.twitch.tv/cardtitan/b/581676335?t=51m0s

I'm sure the rest of it will get in there at some point.

[jbone2016]

Went 3-1 in the trial with azban wish fit. Beat omni tell, bug, American delver. Lost to some odd blue green vial deck.

[Arianrhod]

Had horrific mana problems. Dropped and did vintage instead, took 2nd in the 80ish person sanctioned vintage trial. I'm oddly okay with this.

[ironclad8690]

Wizards gave a shout out to Veteran Explorer in their article on ther Eternal Weekend coverage page.

It is super fun to see other mid-rangers like myself joining the cause of Nic Fit. I always knew I would somehow end up on this deck, it just took treasure cruise to finally make it happen.

I think I am going to play Punishing Nic fit as I have learned the style of punishing fire through years of big zoo/maverick/jund.

The questions I am faced with now:

1) What six drop should I run? Broodmate is so cool, but is Primeval just better?

2) Which of these three should I play: Phyrexian Tower, Volrath's Stronghold, Kessig Wolf Run?

Man, these are way cooler than my old Jund problems :)

[Firepaw3]

Sam from the coverage, ended up going 7-3 after losing the feature got 2-0'd by omni and then scooped to my friend in the last round, report coming sometime this week
you can find the feature match here: http://www.twitch.tv/cardtitan/b/581803847 starts around 23 min in

[MrIggins]

Titan is probably better for you, it either solidifies your board control by getting more Groves, or it can (maybe) get you Two Towers action going on.

I think in Punishing, which has historically been the best deck for Thrun, you want to be playing Wolf Run. Not sure about the other two. Tower is best when you're trying to be explosive (you're not, you're a hard control deck) or when you also have Volrath's Stronghold (you may not have room for all 3 utility lands). I would try all three, and if it proves to be too many, test something like a Raging Ravine to go with your Prime Time.

[jbone2016]

2-0 so far. Beat dredge and painter.

[Ralf]

2-0 so far. Beat dredge and painter.

Go Jbone ! Show them the raw power of Nic Fit.

[jbone2016]

Sadly. 2-2-1 now

[ironclad8690]

This is my current Punishing Nic Fit prototype heading into SCG Oakland:

1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Badlands
1 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Taiga
2 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Sylvan Library
1 Primeval Titan
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Wickerbough Elder
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Extirpate

Can anyone with Jund Nic Fit experience please help me streamline my list and sideboard?

Current goals: 4 Pyroblast effects in sideboard to accommodate the removal of so many maindeck cards in the non-elves combo matchups, 4 Liliana maindeck (mainly to increase Show and Tell percentages).

Edit: Decks I do not feel threatened by enough to add specific sideboard hate:

UWr Miracles
Stoneforge Mystic decks of any sort
Midrange (Jund, BUG)
Non-blue combo

(Let me know if I should fear any of these)

Thanks!

[jbone2016]

Bah. Lost my last two to fail to money.

[ironclad8690]

Bah. Lost my last two to fail to money.

Bummer, are you going to post a report anyway?

[Cliq]

This is the eternal weekend BUG match if anyone else was interested: http://www.twitch.tv/cardtitan/b/581676335?t=0h51m05s

Over the past few days I took Caleb's nic fit cruise list as a starting point and tested it a LOT. I ended up with this:

2 Abrupt Decay
4 Baleful Strix
2 Bayou
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Force of Will
1 Forest
3 Island
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Dig Through Time
2 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Notion Thief

SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Pernicious Deed
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 Thragtusk
SB: 2 Arcane Laboratory

Dig is way better than Cruise since by the time you're casting it you need a specific answer and not something like vet explorer, land, baleful strix. Curious if anyone is running anything similar? It feels a bit weaker than the Pod deck vs delver decks, but better vs everything else. I'd like to fix the delver matchup.

[jbone2016]

The Deck:
Creatures
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Thragtusk

Spells (25)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Thoughtseize
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Batterskull
3 Living Wish
1 Golgari Charm

Land (22)
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas

Sideboard/Wishboard
2 Tsunami
2 Thalia
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extripate
1 Humility
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Wasteland
1 Ashen Rider
1 Fleshbag Maruader
1 Hex Parasite
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Revoker

[jbone2016]

The result:

Round 1: Dredge
A thoughtseize takes his early shenanigans with a breakthrough showing a LED and GGT. I take some early Ichorid beats with no bridges in the yard (some of my stuff died) before I wish for a bog and then Batterskull him out.
In: Surgical, Extripate, Thalia x2, Out: Sage, Sigarda, Rhino, Swords.
We both mull to 6, I take some early hits before deed blows up the world. I get a tusk and rhino out, while gets a griselbrand into play at 7 life, forgetting that my Karakas was already in play (as did I)
1-0 (2-0) M:1

Round 2: Red/Black Painter.
An early therapy reveals what he is on but sadly he assembles he combo too fast.
In: Extripate, Surgical, maybe Revoker. Out: Golgari charm, Ooze?

I mull to 6 and keep a thoughtseize hand. I get him to 6....then get the combo out....but forgets to name a color with painter. I had a stronghold out...which would have bought me a turn.

I mull to 6 (in game 3). Discard gets him a for a while but he has a moon and bridge...but I casually draw 3 basic and play a deed. I play some threats while keeping one mana up. Endup blowing the deed for 3 and start to rhino him.
2-0 (4-1) M:3

Round 3: Fish
Game 1: I rip his hand apart before I still go down to 5. Mr Deed shows up then Sir Rhino follows soon after.
In: Tsunami x2, Out Teeg, Vet
Game 2: Some early discard helps out a lot but I never find any removal.
Game 3: We both mull to 6. I have a deed but little else. He goes cursecatcher into lord, into reejay into echoing truth my blockers (I never played the deed due to fear of daze, I also had a living wish also but didn't burn it)
2-1 (5-3) M:4

Round 4: U/R Delver
Game 1: Long game involving many tokens, swiftspear and cruises. Sadly, I lose.
In: Thalia x 2, out: teeg, sage
Game 2: Almost as long....he has a turn to draw a bolt....he does (after a cruise) but tapped out. Batterskull digs me out of it.
Game 3: 5 minutes left....He gets a fast start with a delver and TNN (from the board) but deed blows up the world and we draw.
Might have spent to mention time on tops 2nd game.
2-1-1 (6-4-1) M:4

Round 5: Lands
Ugh. I've played against Lands plenty in my local meta...and it sucks.
Game 1: He combos me.....turn 5 or 6.
In: Extripate, Surgical, Humilty Out: Charm, Pulse, deed

Game 2: He mulls to 5 while I'm sitting on a surgical...and he crop rotates into the combo. Lame.
2-2-1 (6-6-1) M:4
I'm a little flustered now.

Round 6: Reanimator
Mull to 6. He forces my first cabal therapy...and I miss on my 2nd after seeing just 2 island... (I named sneak attack after thinking about show and tell). He then show and tells a Griselbrand while I get a teeg. I then living wish with mana open for my karakas. He gets the Elesh Norn in but I land a Scooze and game from there.
In: Humilty, Ashen Rider, Surgical, Extripate Out: Teeg, Sage, Charm, Deed?

Game 2: I get some discard while beats with Ooze which would force him to show in tell (in which case I have humilty in hand) and an ooze with 1 counter on it. Slow but steady
3-2-1 (8-6-1) M:5

Round 7: Storm....damn combo decks.
Game 1: Some early discard followed by a Teeg. Next game.
In: Thalia x2, Canonist, Surgical, Extripate
Game 2: I mull to 6. Some early discard again leads to slowing the game down with allows me to get some hate bears out and slowly wittle him down.
4-2-1 (10-6-1) M:6

Round 8: U/R Cruise
Game 1: He sees 3 forces, 3 dazes, 4 cruises......and barely gets there at 1 left and kill me at exactly 0. Double rhino almost got there.
Out: Sage, Sigarda? In: Thalia x 2
Game 2: Turn one cage shut me down for a while...along with a pithing needle on deed. Wishing for the sage kills the cage. But I sweep the board with charm (killing tokens and a delver). Double rhino got there that game.
Game 3: An early thoughtseize takes his Force? But triple swiftspear plus burn does me in after I tap out for deed.
4-3-1 (11-8-1)

Round 9: ANT
Game 1: I mull to 6, knowing what he is on. Sadly...he still kills me after a thragtusk.
In: Surgical, Extr, Thalia, Canonist Out: Charm, Swords, 2 deeds, sigarda (deeds and charm comes back in), Revoker
Game 2: Blind name dark ritual and hit two...seeing the empty. Some hatebears and a rhino later...game 3.
Game 3: Blind name dark ritual again....no luck...sadly I get stuck on lands while he strips my hand bye bye pulse and charm but I surgical his burning wish (discarded one to a led discard while casting ad nasuem) One Warrens left in the deck....he draws it....but only taking 12 life loss. makes 24 goblins......miracle deed.......no.

4-4-1 (12-10-1)

Treasure cruise is a stupid card.

[Ralf]

The result:

Treasure cruise is a stupid card.

Thanks for the detailed report.

I am very impressed and sad to read that finally you beat almost every combo deck you have encountered and lost to every possible fair decks...
Weird... Even more when you know that we are, by design, more than favoured in those kind of match !
That loss against Fish is unexpected, but well it happens.
On the contrary, I like how the lone Gaddock took over one game on his own :D

In my testing (with previous Qweerios' Abzan list), I have found to be favoured against UR Delver featuring TC. Not by much, but favoured nonetheless.
Would you tell us if you think, retrospectively, that you were especially unlucky (or you made bad decisions/missplays) in those games or that you were always behind and there were nothing you could do ?

My guess is the following:
- DRS & Ooze are important in those MU.
- Kitchen Finks pulls its weight even more in those MU
- BSK is even more important and having a way to search & cheat (via SFM) him into play sounds like mandatory

Would you share a bit more on Rhino ? How do you feel about him ? How did he run all day long ?
Impressed ? Not impressed ?

Thx in advance.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

He gets the Elesh Norn in but I land a Scooze and game from there.
Wouldn't Scooze die because of Elesh? :eyebrow:

[Arianrhod]

Planning on watching the two feature matches from Saturday over lunch. I'll post some additional comments then.

So, I played against UR Delver twice (0-2 drop).

R1 G1 / G2 I keep 3-land hands with a good mix of threats, Therapy, and a removal spell.

I never draw a 4th land in either game. Game one he has triple Swiftspear, and my Deed gets Forced. Game two I die with Rhino, Thune, and Thragtusk all in hand with 3 lands and a Top in play. Top can't find me another land even after fetching for one of my 3 to get a shuffle.

R2 G1 / I'm stuck on 2 lands with Top for a while. Meanwhile my opponent has literal quad swiftspear.

G2 / I say fuck it and keep a hand with 4 lands, a Rhino, and a Decay. I have to Decay his Sulfuric Vortex instead of the Swiftspear that I wanted to, but slam Rhino next turn. Rhino holds him off for a while (although he does make Swiftspear big enough to get through at least once). Meanwhile, I never draw a NONLAND card for the rest of the game and die with like 8 lands in play.

Fucking bullshit.

In happier news, I went a combined 12-3-1 in vintage between the trial Saturday night (which I took 2nd place in, 74 person event) and Sunday (5-2 drop because my car wanted to go home and I was dead for top 8). Could have probably almost assuredly moneyed Sunday as well if I stuck it out, but meh, getting home at 10:30pm with work the next day is a lot better than 1:30am.

I'll have more thoughts after I watch the games.

[maharis]

Hello, after scrubbing ingloriously out of Eternal Weekend with traditional Junk Rock, I decided to play Nic Fit at a GPT in Delaware. I didn't do much better, but I enjoyed the deck.

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Thragtusk
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Boon Satyr
1 Acidic Slime
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt

1 Batterskull

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Toxic Deluge
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Recurring Nightmare

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower

Sideboard:
4 Thoughtseize
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Krosan Grip
1 Lingering Souls
1 Choke
1 Abrupt Decay

Explaning some card choices: As I saw the players organizing, I saw lots of volcanic islands, which I expected after Eternal Waiting had so much UR delver. That was my impetus for picking a deck with sweepers, lifegain, and basics. I played Deluge instead of Deed so I could play Sylvan, and because I felt that I'd rather pay 1-2 life to clear out a Delver/Pyro/Swiftspear board than have to wait a turn and take potentially more damage than that while I set up Deed. I saw a miracles player, Goblin player and Sneak player as well, so I added Krosan Grip, Karakas, Choke, and Souls.

So of course I played against all combo. My first opponent was on Belcher. I won die roll, played Tower-Top and got belched game 1. Game 2 I mulled to Pithing Needle, Deluge, 2 lands and top, Needled belcher and found my third land to kill his goblins. Game 3 was more of the same as 2. Beating belcher on a mull to 5? This deck rules.

Round 2 was manaless dredge. I got turn 2'd game 1 and then forgot how Phantasmagorian worked game 2 when I should've won. That was on me.

Round 3 was Reanimator. I lost the die roll. She played Island-Ponder. I Therapied naming S&T and hit, expecting Omni or High Tide. I hit one, but the rest of her hand was 2x Daze and 2x Exhume. Ooook. She played a land and passed, I jammed Sylvan which ate a Daze, she Careful Studied Iona into the GY, but I found my Karakas, Therapied away Exhume, and she Reanimated Iona right into it. Whoops. She scooped after I played Finks. In game 2 I kept Karakas again but she sided out all her legendaries and beat me with Grave Titan. In game 3 she hardcast Grave Titan thanks to VetEx and I couldn't find Deluge off Library.

Round 4 was burn. I lost the die roll and I lost the match. Couldn't find a third land in game 2. Over the weekend I won 2 die rolls in 9 matches so I'm just going to chalk a lot of my misery up to variance.

I am going to explore this archetype for the GP now because I really like lifegain in this meta. I'm not sure if this will be my final list, but I didn't even get to play anything sweet in the GPT due to having to focus on stopping degeneracy. I have another GPT Saturday which is my last practice run before the GP, so hopefully I'll get to go Beast Mode on some Delvers then.

[ironclad8690]

Wouldn't Scooze die because of Elesh? :eyebrow:

I'm guessing he used the Karakas he wished for to bounce it and then Ooze comes down.

[MD.Ghost]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c14/cards/reefworm.jpg

BUG Pod Stuff?

[jbone2016]

Tbd.

[Cliq]

It's competing with Glen Elendra, Redcap, and Sower of Temptation for that slot. Dropping Elendra or Sower would make your already-poor combo matchup worse, but I guess I could see it over redcap. Blocks Goyf forever and pitches to FOW. Does not kill Insectile Aberration, though.

[Nithkar]

Wouldn't it be too much of a weakness against StP and council's judgement?

[Arianrhod]

@Firepaw: here's my thoughts as I watched through your match:

lol, Bob wanted the deck to be Rec Sur. He's not entirely off base (for some versions)

Therapy on Young Pyro? Why not Brainstorm? I think that's the worst case card for you -- he had 1-land + Delver, you don't want him Brainstorming on upkeep and flipping + finding lands. Young Pyro is a good card, but he's not actually that fast of a clock and Scapewish plays a million sweepers.

Note: Tipton's draw is insane.

Oh look, flip Delver + find lands. Brainstorm is a fair card.

lol@BDM trolling Bob

Slaughter on Force of Will is 100% correct. I agree with that line, all the way.

WE GOT A READER (when he picked up Huntmaster)

LOL RICH SHAY (note that I have also molested Rich Shay with Scapewish in the past, and he was equally as amused. aka not at all)

Game 2:

Didn't name Brainstorm again, got punished.

Why play the Top instead of holding the 1-mana for Taylor [Swift(spear)] + Cage? I would have definitely taken the chance to hit Tipton's tempo right in the nutsack. Even if you don't crack on combat (which is fine if he opts to hold spells for later), you can certainly crack on endstep and be in good shape since you got a timewalk.

Why crack the Deed when you did? You had already taken a million damage for free from it -- at that point I'd just have taken the 2 and forced him to keep going slow and steady. If you'd had a Zenith on top it'd have been a different story, but at that point I would have just kept the deed around as insurance to keep him from going all-in while you built up the necessary lands.

I have no idea why you didn't block the unflipped Delver with the Shusher. There isn't a card that Tipton could be playing that could punish you for that block. He's not going to board in Eletrickery vs Scapewish. Any other trick he would have could just kill the Shusher anyway. I guess maybe he could Cruise (not sure what his graveyard looked like), but trading a Delver for three randoms when you have a Shusher in play is probably fine based on percentages? Not as certain here.

You were out of mountains, I'm guessing? I couldn't do the full count, but it did look like you had a very nonbasic, non-bayou heavy draw. Also, Bob is hilariously uninformed as to how Valakut actually works.

Game 3:

My reaction to turn 1:

>>You finally name Brainstorm and are rewarded!
>>oh god that hand
>>I cry everytime, 750/750

jesus Taylor is a stupid card

another cruise? really?

sadface =(

Have to get back to work now, but I'll listen to the BUG match while I'm grinding away.

[Firepaw3]

This weekend at eternal champs I went 7-3 with Scapewish, losing to UR, Omni, and scooping to my friend in the final round
The List was the same as Worcester:
Maindeck (61)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Wood Elves
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Vexing Shusher

3 Pernicious Deed
3 Senseis Divining top

2 Slaughter Games
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Burning Wish
4 Green Suns Zenith
2 Scapeshift

3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Badlands
4 Taiga
2 Stomping Grounds
2 Bayou
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
Sideboard (15)
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Slaughter Games
1 Innocent Blood
1 Scapeshift
2 Thoughtseize
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pyroclasm
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Massacre


R1 Josh on Esper Deathblade
G1 I won the roll and stole 2 brainstorms out of his hand leaving him with 4 lands and a cruise, that was that
In- REB x3 Carpetx1 out- slaughtergamesx2 veteranx1 Sakurax1
G2 Timely therapies took batterskull and jitte from his hand and a deed wipes a TNN, 2 huntmasters finished up
2-0 (1-0)

R2 Martin on BUG delver, fellow Redcaps player although I couldent remember for the life of me what he played
G1 I kept a very slow hand and delver did its thing
in-REBx3 Carpetx2 out-Sakurax1 Slaughtergamesx2 Primeval titan Topx1
G2&3 I dont remember much of, but I cracked deed 2x one game and powered on out with thragtusks and huntmasters
2-1 (2-0)

R3 Kevin on UR Delver
G1 a turn 1 therapy reveals 3 lands, ponder, probe, chain lightning, and forked bolt. He Sees my pile and starts cantriping after acouple of turns he manages to cruise 2x in one turn with a pyromancer and 2 swiftspears in play, cast 3 more probes, and ponder, He forgot to keep a blue card in his hand and scapeshift hits him for lethal
In- REBx3 Carpetx2 Out- primeval titanx1, sakura tribe elderx1, Slaughtergamesx2, topx1
G2 my opponent gets an early delver into young pyromancer, 2 veterans hold off the tokens long enough for me to get deed in play, 2 turns later scapeshift resolves with a vexing shusher in play.
2-0 (3-0)

R4 Rich Shay on UR Delver
did not know who this guy was but his name sounded familiar, he joked that he won an FNM one time but apparently hes pretty good, always nice beating seasoned players
G1 I won the roll and hit brainstorms on 1, leaving his hand at 2 FOW tarn and bolt. He got a ponder off the top, but dident find anything fast enough as thragtusk was the first creature in the game to resolve. With so much life to give I easily took G1 from their
Boarding same as before
G2 he kept his 7 and I mulled down to 5, probably the best 5 I could have sakura tribe elder woodelvesx2, taiga, bayou. Again he has a semi-slow start allowing me to set up with some lands, I start topdecking and jamming threats left and right, huntmaster into GSZ, and thragtusk all get countered making way for a lethal scapeshift
2-0 (4-0)

R5 David Tipton on UR delver
My first on-camera feature match! Was super excited for this, have wanted one for awhile now, the match can be seen here at the 22 min mark: http://www.twitch.tv/cardtitan/b/581803847
As someone said previously, bob dident understand valakut, and each time he suggested I scapeshift I could not do so
Trying to find things I could have done differently, in G2 when my top clogged with 4 mountains on top I could have waited one turn to make an additional land drop, and scapeshift getting 2 valakuts and 4 mountains to 24 him and hope his delver doesnt kill me, but I would have lost to the price on top of his deck
If you guys have any critiques over how I played the match please let me know
1-2 (4-1)
At this point I feel like my luck has run out, now that Im x-1 theres a high probability I hit combo in my matches to come knocking me out of top8, and sure enough next round..

R6 Ben Omni-Tell
not much to say about this, slaughtergames g2 hit his enters but he had the emrakul in hand, I died next turn
0-2 (4-2)
At this point Im pretty flustered having a great start and just falling off the rails, with how late this tournament started and 10 rounds of legacy I'm ready to pick up my third loss and go to sleep

R7 Peter on Punishing Nic fit
It was awesome to see another nic fit player doing well in this event, and the only other Jund one Ive ever seen being played other than me.
I open with therapy on brainstorm and see Veteran Ewit GSZ Explorer Top and get excited for a mirror
I wasent sure what version he was on by his hand so I slaughterd naming scapeshift or burning wish(forget) and saw the fires. This game was very close and ended up with me at for spinning top one card deeper to find the scapeshift
In- kessig wolf run thoughtseizex2 out-penicious deedx1 sakurax1 veteranx1
This game was really grindy with him slaughtergamsing my wishes and shift and me hitting his punishing fires, he got an early ooze but a GSZ for primeval titan getting a valakut and scapeshift ended the game a turn later
Peter was an awesome guy I hope to see him doing well at more events
2-0 (5-2)

R8 Devin on Miracles
Devin knew me but I dident know him, always unfortunate when the opponent knows what your on
G1 I opened with a veteran and him a top, we played draw go for multiple turns me playing a ramp guy everyso often until I resolved a primeval titan, once that happened I knew the coast was clear for a scapeshift, he cracked 6 fetchlands and failed to find a force(lucky!)
In- slaughtergames REBx3 kessigx1 scapeshift, maelstrom pulse out-veteranx1 burning wishx4 huntmasterx1 sakurax1
An early deed blew up a counterbalance, opponent dident have much going on the entire game as an early therapy took out his brainstorms stranding an entreet in his hand, my top resolved and found primetime, which was forced(pitching force) allowing me to untap the next turn and scapeshift with REB back up
2-0 (6-2)

R9 Cheng on UR delver
dont remember much of these games, but my opponent had the nut delver hand g1, not much I could do
G2 and 3 scapeshift got there after some timely pyroclasms and deeds, never resolved a huntmaster or tharg entire match
2-1 (7-2)

R10 I was paired against my friend Zack Mullen on Miracles, We decided a guaranteed $125 was better than losing $150 if we lost and after a long day, we were ready for a break. I scoped him into 12th place and I took 34th
(7-3) 15-6 in matches
All in all it was a great day, friend Zack Dobbin and ralph betesh made top 8 and I did suprisingly well against UR which I had zero testing towards prior.
Props: Winning EVERY die roll today, nice to play without fear of T1 daze, Seeing zach make it to top 8 with helmerator, representing Gameskeep Lcc
Slops: dealer with foil scapeshifts closing before I got my prize money, Card titan not having any foil cabal therapies, and how poorly the start of the tournament was run
Overall the Deck preformed amazingly I wouldn't change anything about it, and I cant wait for another shot to put it in top8
If anyone has notes with my sideboarding Id love to hear it, still not 100% confident in it
Edits:Spelling

[Firepaw3]

@Firepaw: here's my thoughts as I watched through your match:

lol, Bob wanted the deck to be Rec Sur. He's not entirely off base (for some versions)

Therapy on Young Pyro? Why not Brainstorm? I think that's the worst case card for you -- he had 1-land + Delver, you don't want him Brainstorming on upkeep and flipping + finding lands. Young Pyro is a good card, but he's not actually that fast of a clock and Scapewish plays a million sweepers.

Note: Tipton's draw is insane.

Oh look, flip Delver + find lands. Brainstorm is a fair card.

lol@BDM trolling Bob

Slaughter on Force of Will is 100% correct. I agree with that line, all the way.

WE GOT A READER (when he picked up Huntmaster)

LOL RICH SHAY (note that I have also molested Rich Shay with Scapewish in the past, and he was equally as amused. aka not at all)

Game 2:

Didn't name Brainstorm again, got punished.

Why play the Top instead of holding the 1-mana for Taylor [Swift(spear)] + Cage? I would have definitely taken the chance to hit Tipton's tempo right in the nutsack. Even if you don't crack on combat (which is fine if he opts to hold spells for later), you can certainly crack on endstep and be in good shape since you got a timewalk.

Why crack the Deed when you did? You had already taken a million damage for free from it -- at that point I'd just have taken the 2 and forced him to keep going slow and steady. If you'd had a Zenith on top it'd have been a different story, but at that point I would have just kept the deed around as insurance to keep him from going all-in while you built up the necessary lands.

I have no idea why you didn't block the unflipped Delver with the Shusher. There isn't a card that Tipton could be playing that could punish you for that block. He's not going to board in Eletrickery vs Scapewish. Any other trick he would have could just kill the Shusher anyway. I guess maybe he could Cruise (not sure what his graveyard looked like), but trading a Delver for three randoms when you have a Shusher in play is probably fine based on percentages? Not as certain here.

You were out of mountains, I'm guessing? I couldn't do the full count, but it did look like you had a very nonbasic, non-bayou heavy draw. Also, Bob is hilariously uninformed as to how Valakut actually works.

Game 3:

My reaction to turn 1:

>>You finally name Brainstorm and are rewarded!
>>oh god that hand
>>I cry everytime, 750/750

jesus Taylor is a stupid card

another cruise? really?

sadface =(

Have to get back to work now, but I'll listen to the BUG match while I'm grinding away.


Yea I def should have names BS off of the therapies, but with only one game against my friend I was rly afraid of hyper aggro starts holding the top was also the correct call, as soon as I put it down I knew it was a mistake, but I was rly tired at this point, as you can see my tring to cut my own deck thinking it was my opponents
I poped deed there because I was afraid to go to 8, looking back on it now I should have waited. Not sure where your refering to in reguards to shusher block, but if it was when i attacked g2 I wanted to put him to 18 for shift, otherwise your 100% correct and I was just stupid to not block
And yea, g2 my top kept showing me mountains so I had to draw them and ran out

[Arianrhod]

Yeah, the exhaustion factor is real. I blame my r7g1 loss on Sunday (which contributed to knocking me out) to exhaustion. I took a horrible line and got punished for it when I really knew better.

Not sure if you saw, but apparently the delay was caused by a problem with WER where it wouldn't import all of the pregreistered players, so they had to input them by hand. That's fine, but I would have liked to have seen some transparency about that rather than making everyone wait around wondering wtf is going on.

David Malafarina (the bug player who defeated Ari Lax rd1 on camera) apparently dropped with 2 wins -- not sure how many losses. His list seems pretty interesting -- looked similar to mine except he found room for Forces, Dig Through Times, and Brainstorms maindeck. I'd love to see it if he frequents these forums / has a friend who does.

I know that there were a nonzero number of Nic Fitters in the room -- Ari tweeted about Siege Rhino sitting next to him round 2 (playing vs Jund, looks like), Sam's opponent Peter, and I heard of a couple others. If anyone else has insights, that'd be sweet.

As for the commander spoils, Reef Wurm isn't playable imo. A 4-drop creature whose name is not Venser, Notion Thief, Glen Elendra, or Obstinate Baloth seems pretty awful. Losing to StP / Judgment / Terminus is also rough. Now, if it said "Leaves Play" instead of dies, dear god yes. As is, though, WotC appears to have learned their lesson from Thragtusk and doesn't seem keen on repeating it.

I wish Freyalise was playable just off of her lore and her art. It would be sweet to rock her alongside Pernicious Deed. Unfortunately, though, I don't think she is. I'll probably test with her a little since she offers a bit more utility than Garruk Primal Hunter, alongside an easier mana cost. Both protect themselves on a + ability, and both threaten the ability to draw lots of cards, though, so they are at least somewhat comparable.

I will forever have a soft spot in my heart for Ob Nixilis (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Bane). My first truly competitive deck was a GBW rock-style deck in Shards/Zen standard with Ob Nixilis, KotR, Path, Pulse, Lotus Cobra, Baneslayer, etc. I rocked a pair of Lord of Extinctions alongside a pair of Soul's Fires. It was fantastic and I took a lot of joy in smashing the fuck out of Jund (The Deck of the time). I literally logged onto facebook this morning and squee'd like a 13-year old girl. I have no idea if Obwalker is playable or not, but goddamn I'm going to try.

His +2 is pretty bad in 1v1, unfortunately. It DOES trigger Thune, which is not nothing. It also puts him to a chunky 5 loyalty, although he doesn't protect himself with it, sadly. His -2 is pretty bonkers. A 5/5 flying demon in exchange for 2 of his life and 2 of your life is not a bad rate by any stretch. I won't even comment on his ultimate. That emblem could have been literally designed for Nic Fit specifically.

I'm not sure where I'm going to look for a shell for him, but it's going to have to be a very controlling shell, for sure. I really just wish that his +2 was a little better, but I guess the strength of his other two abilities is so high that it's fine.

Dualcaster Mage is fucking obnoxious and going to probably offend me in the near future if it finds its way into UR Delver. It may, however, also be a powerful toy for red nic fits -- in fact, it may be the first real toy that Scapewish has gotten since Ravnica. 4 + 3 = 7 -- Dualcaster can let you Scapeshift with protection. I hear copying a Cruise is fine, too, or an Entreat, or heck even just being a Brainstorm with legs is probably tolerable.

[Cliq]

I believe David's list is very similar to mine that I posted on the last page, the major differences being that he has Thragtusk in the main (mine is in the board and comes in vs burn and miracles, and interestingly the Nic Fit mirror), Ice Titan and Clique and no DRS, at least from what I saw. Obviously I have no idea what his exact numbers look like. I'd love to see it, too, if anyone can find it. I'd highly recommend that list, if anyone wants to play BUG nic fit. Having a favored matchup vs storm with a nic fit deck feels pretty nice.

None of the commander spoilers except the faux-snapcaster look Legacy playable yet to me, although I'm sure they could give us something. Not enthused about the possibility of delver players Forking their treasure cruises in the near future.

[jbone2016]

Thanks for the detailed report.

I am very impressed and sad to read that finally you beat almost every combo deck you have encountered and lost to every possible fair decks...
Weird... Even more when you know that we are, by design, more than favoured in those kind of match !
That loss against Fish is unexpected, but well it happens.
On the contrary, I like how the lone Gaddock took over one game on his own :D

In my testing (with previous Qweerios' Abzan list), I have found to be favoured against UR Delver featuring TC. Not by much, but favoured nonetheless.
Would you tell us if you think, retrospectively, that you were especially unlucky (or you made bad decisions/missplays) in those games or that you were always behind and there were nothing you could do ?

My guess is the following:
- DRS & Ooze are important in those MU.
- Kitchen Finks pulls its weight even more in those MU
- BSK is even more important and having a way to search & cheat (via SFM) him into play sounds like mandatory

Would you share a bit more on Rhino ? How do you feel about him ? How did he run all day long ?
Impressed ? Not impressed ?

Thx in advance.

The rhinos were stupid good. Got me a of couple of wins for sure.
DRS didn't do that much really but it did enough. Ooze did some work vs reanimator and ate a couple of bolt vs u/r delver.
Finks seems like it could be useful. Not too worried about cheating in BSK....we have enough other threats/life gain that including a squire instead that helpful.
The golgari charm wasn't bad...but I think I want a deluge some where in the list.
Thalia's should be sphere of resistance. Never wished for here but brought her in a lot.
Hex parasite never was used (saw no planeswalkers). Revoker was boarded in vs storm otherwise no play.
Wished for wasteland once just a land drop. Thinking about a khalni garden to fix my mana and a dude to chump or flashback therapy.
Tsunami seems too slow vs u/r delver or fish but still good vs bug, esper, miracles and maybe rug?
Relic seems like an interesting response to cruise but I'm not sure we want it. Leyline of void could possible be an answer. Not touching rest in peace at all. I'm starting to want a chains again, however.

[MrIggins]

Hey Firepaw- thanks for posting the report. The only point I remember about watching your camera match was the (acknowledged) mistake of running out your top instead of deeding for 1, otherwise I like the lines you took and it was unfortunate that you couldn't quite get there. Therapy names are not what I would have gone for initially, but Kevin covered that already.

For reference: my current list is yours with the following changes:
MD -2 Games, -1 Huntmaster, -1 Shusher, +2 Decay, +1 Scapeshift, +1 Eternal Witness
SB -2 Carpet, -1 Wolf Run, +1 Thoughtseize +2 Games

I have actually been pretty underwhelmed by Slaughter Games recently. They've lived in my sideboard since GP DC, and I've had 2x Abrupt Decay in their place in the maindeck which I've liked. More ways to disrupt the tempo of the blade decks was awesome when that was the flavor of the month. With this new breed of UR delver, I'm no longer sure that decays are what I want in that spot, but it's not clear what it should be. Decay is a blanket good card that helps a lot of other matchups, so it might just be what I want here. Can you talk a bit about what you're doing with Games in the matchups where it isn't great? Has it been impactful enough? Obviously taking Forces from the Delver players makes it so you just don't care what they draw, but can we afford to spend 4 mana on that effect when they're trying to burn our faces off? My inclination is that we can't, but I am definitely open to being proved wrong. I loved having the card in my maindeck this time last year.

I like Shusher over Witness and intend to try that out. I also really like the Wolf Run in the sideboard. What do you use it for other than Miracles (and obviously the mirror)?

Your sideboarding against miracles is very different from what I've done in the past. With your sideboard, I would be doing -3 Explorer, -1 Wood Elves, -2 Therapy, -1 Wish for +2 Carpet +3 REB +2 Games and likely switching a Swamp for the Wolf Run. Explorers are not good against them because they also have basics and dying to a fast Jace or Entreat is a good way to lose. I don't really like boarding out Wishes against them because the card is so versatile and while it is a bit weaker against counterbalance, using it as a bait spell is actually quite reasonable. They don't have THAT many 2s and casting it for discard or information or the sideboarded Games are all quite reasonable.

Other sideboarding notes, when I had Carpets I preferred trimming Wood Elves over trimming Elders because I love having those shuffle effects on demand for Top. Sort of a toss-up, again.

It's nice to see success with this deck and good to hear that it's in a reasonable spot against the UR Delver deck. Thanks again for writing up the report and congratulations on your finish!

[militiaman89]

I let my friend dave malifarina know about this forum and hope he can put his thought and input into it!!

[Firepaw3]

Hey Firepaw- thanks for posting the report. The only point I remember about watching your camera match was the (acknowledged) mistake of running out your top instead of deeding for 1, otherwise I like the lines you took and it was unfortunate that you couldn't quite get there. Therapy names are not what I would have gone for initially, but Kevin covered that already.

For reference: my current list is yours with the following changes:
MD -2 Games, -1 Huntmaster, -1 Shusher, +2 Decay, +1 Scapeshift, +1 Eternal Witness
SB -2 Carpet, -1 Wolf Run, +1 Thoughtseize +2 Games

I have actually been pretty underwhelmed by Slaughter Games recently. They've lived in my sideboard since GP DC, and I've had 2x Abrupt Decay in their place in the maindeck which I've liked. More ways to disrupt the tempo of the blade decks was awesome when that was the flavor of the month. With this new breed of UR delver, I'm no longer sure that decays are what I want in that spot, but it's not clear what it should be. Decay is a blanket good card that helps a lot of other matchups, so it might just be what I want here. Can you talk a bit about what you're doing with Games in the matchups where it isn't great? Has it been impactful enough? Obviously taking Forces from the Delver players makes it so you just don't care what they draw, but can we afford to spend 4 mana on that effect when they're trying to burn our faces off? My inclination is that we can't, but I am definitely open to being proved wrong. I loved having the card in my maindeck this time last year.

I like Shusher over Witness and intend to try that out. I also really like the Wolf Run in the sideboard. What do you use it for other than Miracles (and obviously the mirror)?

Your sideboarding against miracles is very different from what I've done in the past. With your sideboard, I would be doing -3 Explorer, -1 Wood Elves, -2 Therapy, -1 Wish for +2 Carpet +3 REB +2 Games and likely switching a Swamp for the Wolf Run. Explorers are not good against them because they also have basics and dying to a fast Jace or Entreat is a good way to lose. I don't really like boarding out Wishes against them because the card is so versatile and while it is a bit weaker against counterbalance, using it as a bait spell is actually quite reasonable. They don't have THAT many 2s and casting it for discard or information or the sideboarded Games are all quite reasonable.

Other sideboarding notes, when I had Carpets I preferred trimming Wood Elves over trimming Elders because I love having those shuffle effects on demand for Top. Sort of a toss-up, again.

It's nice to see success with this deck and good to hear that it's in a reasonable spot against the UR Delver deck. Thanks again for writing up the report and congratulations on your finish!
In reguards to the slaughtergames, Ive been fortunate enough not to draw them in the match ups I dont want them in before sideboarding
everytime Ive actually cast slaughtergames its been the card thats won me the game, many game ones ive been fortunate enough to rip forces out of their hand before they kill me. Right now im leaning towards moving them to the board, but playing in the philly/NJ scene I play against some of the best miracles pilots on a weekly basis and the card is just so good against them
Veterans are oddly good against miracles for the pure sake that its a creature, in that match up you need to grind them down and if they use a swords on that, you can always cast huntmaster. By the time your sacing them to therapy you should have a good idea of what their hand is like or a slaughtergames for a troublesome card.
The burning wish cutting goes way back when I first started playing the deck, its what kevin would do in the match up. I still think its the correct call because despite the versatility of the card, they see it coming and can counter it with CB easier than they can a 3 drop, esp. after a slaughtergames on entreet. My goal in the miracles MU is to scapeshift on 4 if possible for a kessig and valakut, fetching up to 5 red sources throughout the game incase i naturally draw one of those cards as to attack from multiple angles at once. With so many ways to deal with with miracles(kessig, slow burn, creatures, shift, vexing shusher) The matchup feels insanely better than it was previously, I havent lost a single game to miracles since adding the kessig and shusher to the deck
I bring the kessig in against rug delver and non blue creature decks, and I probably should have brought it in vs blade, it makes all my little guys more than chump blockers and can punch a lilli in the face. Ive had multiple games vs RUG where it was just a race to see who could kill who first, and kessig puts the race in my favor
I like keeping wood elves around vs YP decks for the body+land/land+therapy as opposed to a land+chump or therapy and no land, still one in the deck should I need to GSZ for it
I think I answered everything lmk if not

[MrIggins]

That's a really interesting approach to the Miracles matchup. Thanks for the insight.