PDA

View Full Version : [Deck] U/G Infect



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Cybey
10-12-2014, 05:08 AM
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=213731http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=179434http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=738http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=247332



I. Overview
II. Core Deck List
III. Card Choices
IV. Sideboard Options
V. Sideboarding Strategies
VI. Priceguide
VII. Awesome Links
VIII. Infect in action



Original Infect thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21232-U-G-infect

I. Overview

UG Infect is based on the Infect mechanic, first introduced in the Scars of Mirrodin Block that focuses on giving the opponent 10 poison counters to win the game. It is an aggro-combo deck that utilizes small creatures with Infect and pump spells to win, which can happen as fast as the second turn. The creatures in the deck are all 1/1, that you're trying to pump with spells and exalted triggers. While it can play the long game if needed, the deck is aiming to kill as quickly as possible. We do this by playing the most efficient pump spells available to us.

The aggro part of the deck mostly comes from green spells: all pump spells and (almost) all creatures are green. Blue makes sure we have a fighting chance to combo and to protect our small (vulnerable) creatures. The deck does contain blue creatures and also green provides some interactions to provide protection.

Poison counters have existed in Magic since the Legends expansion, although only two cards where printed that actually used them: Pit Scorpion and Serpent Generator. While those cards have never seen competitive play, a few more cards with poison counters have been printed in The Dark expansion set and the Mirage block. In the Time Spiral block, the poisonous mechanic was introduced, but was mostly used in casual or rogue Sliver decks in the form of Virulent Sliver as an alternative win condition. The Homelands expansion has the only card that gets rid of poison counters: Leeches. Finally, when Scars of Mirrodin block got printed, Legacy received the tools necessary to start playing this wonderful mechanic.

One of the most notable players of this deck is Tom Ross, who won the SCG Invitational on 8/29/2014.


II. Core Deck List

Creatures
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch

Spells
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Daze
3 Force of Will
0-2 Spell Pierce
0-1 Stifle
2-3 Gitaxian Probe

2 Berserk
4 Invigorate
4 Vines of Vastwood
0-1 Become Immense
0-1 Green Sun's Zenith
1-2 Crop Rotation

Lands
0-1 Dryad Arbor
1-2 Pendelhaven
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Forest
3-4 Tropical Island
0-1 Savannah
1 Wasteland
8 fetchland


III. Card Choices

Creatures

Blighted Agent: Our only creature that does not care about the creatures of your opponent. This creature is a must-answer for most fair decks.
Glistener Elf: Simple 1/1 Infecter that enables our turn two wins.
Noble Hierarch: Noble Hierarch has quickly been adopted as 4-of in this deck, since it's amazing. It accelerates our mana development, allowing us to play more pump spells and it pumps our infecters, while also adding protection against Liliana of the Veil.

Pump Spells

Berserk: Berserk is one of the most important pump spells in the deck, but only powerful in combination with another pump spell. It gives our creature trample and doubles the creature's power. It also doubles as a removal spell of your opponent's creatures. This cards was actually banned in Legacy from 1994 to 2003!
Invigorate: Invigorate is our most efficient pump spell, since we can cast it for free. It gives our creature +4/+4 and our opponent 3 life which we do not care about.
Vines of Vastwood: Vines can give our creature +4/+4, but also often is used as protection spell for our creature in response to a removal spell. It can also be used to prevent an opponent from equipping his own creature. Remember that Vines does not actually give hexproof, but protection from spells or abilities your opponents control.
Become Immense: BI can pump your creature to a 7/7 for a single mana. The Delve on the card is quite easy to achieve, and even when you're not able to delve 6, giving your creature this kind of boost is still amazing for 2 or 3 mana in a single spell and is usually a must-answer for your opponent.

Other Spells

Brainstorm: Arguably the best Legacy staple. Draw three cards, put the two worst ones back and crack your fetchland to shuffle those two awful cards away.
Ponder: Look at the three top cards, keep one or shuffle those three awful cards away.
Force of Will: Important Legacy staple in most (all) blue decks. While most decks run a playset, we usually only run three.
Daze: "free" counterspell for early removal.
Gitaxian Probe: Mainly used to see if the coast is clear and making the deck "smaller".
Crop Rotation: Sac your land in response to their Wasteland, sac your land to find Inkmoth Nexus if you don't have a creature, find your single Wasteland to take care of their problem land, get Dryad Arbor in response to Liliana's sac ability or find your Pendelhaven for that additional damage. Also finds Karakas or Bojuka Bog after sideboarding.
Green Sun's Zenith: Find your creature or Dryad Arbor.

Lands

Dryad Arbor: Mainly used to negate Liliana's sac effect or surprise chump block. If you run Green Sun's Zenith, you can also use it as mana acceleration.
Wasteland: Take care of that pesky land. Grove of the Burnwillows or Tabernacle are great targets.
Inkmoth Nexus: For many decks the hardest card to interact with, especially decks that do not run Wasteland. Gets around Liliana of the Veil, Maelstrom Pulse and Abrupt Decay.
Pendelhaven: All your creatures are 1/1, so this card really found a home to shine in. Don't forget that a 1/1 creature with Pendelhaven is a 5 turn clock. Add a Hierarch and you have a 4 turn clock!


IV. Sideboard Options

These cards are common sideboard cards used in UG Infect decks. A few are metagame choices, others are mandatory.
Bojuka Bog
Flusterstorm
Force of Will
Grafdigger's Cage
Karakas (mandatory)
Krosan Grip (mandatory 2x)
Nature's Claim (mandatory)
Necropede
Piracy Charm
Pithing Needle
Rest in Peace (only if you splash white)
Spell Pierce
Spellskite
Submerge
Swords to Plowshares (only if you splash white)
Sylvan Library (mandatory)


V. Sideboarding Strategies

For sideboarding I would strongly advise to read Tom Ross' article The Ultimate Guide To Infect (http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29273_The-Ultimate-Guide-To-Infect.html).


VI. Priceguide

These are the prices of the most common UG Infect cards. For the most current prices, click on the link of each card. High - Mid - Low according to MTGStocks (http://www.mtgstocks.com).

Blighted Agent (http://mtgstocks.com/prints/189)$1.15$0.27$0.13
Glistener Elf (http://mtgstocks.com/cards/231)$1.30$0.29$0.12
Noble Hierarch (http://mtgstocks.com/prints/2137)$83.88$72.75$64.98

Brainstorm (http://mtgstocks.com/cards/24905)$2.49$0.99$0.20
Ponder (http://mtgstocks.com/prints/3243)$1.99$0.92$0.65
Daze (http://mtgstocks.com/cards/8148)$5.49$3.08$1.84
Force of Will (http://mtgstocks.com/prints/10551)$128.25$85.99$72.75
Spell Pierce (http://mtgstocks.com/prints/1860)$3.29$2.19$0.98
Stifle (http://mtgstocks.com/prints/25028)$24.99$7.36$4.89
Gitaxian Probe (http://mtgstocks.com/cards/229)$3.00$2.16$0.48

Berserk (http://mtgstocks.com/cards/15767)$79.99$58.23$51.73
Invigorate (http://mtgstocks.com/cards/8415)$1.98$0.75$0.45
Vines of Vastwood (http://mtgstocks.com/prints/1898)$2.99$1.89$1.25
Become Immense (http://mtgstocks.com/prints/25764)$3.00$1.11$0.59
Green Sun's Zenith (http://mtgstocks.com/cards/924)$9.99$5.12$3.99
Crop Rotation (http://mtgstocks.com/prints/8764)$1.99$0.53$0.33

Dryad Arbor (http://mtgstocks.com/cards/3367)$7.98$6.00$4.74
Pendelhaven (http://mtgstocks.com/cards/3748)$5.24$4.42$2.90
Inkmoth Nexus (http://mtgstocks.com/cards/933)$14.99$9.52$7.00
Tropical Island (http://mtgstocks.com/cards/15715)$500.00$200.00$150.00
Savannah (http://mtgstocks.com/cards/15674)$180.00$79.22$60.96
Wasteland (http://mtgstocks.com/cards/9834)$200.00$77.58$62.01


To compare, Tom Ross' 1st Place SCG invitational deck costs: $3247.69 - $1449.96 - $1100.21 (source: http://mtgstocks.com/decks/77478)


VII. Awesome Links

The Ultimate Guide To Infect (http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29273_The-Ultimate-Guide-To-Infect.html) by Tom Ross

Boss Sligh & Bant Infect (http://www.starcitygames.com/article/27391_Boss-Sligh-Bant-Infect.html) by Tom Ross

The Grind: Decision Making With Infect (https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com/the-grind-decision-making-with-infect/)


VIII. Infect in action

SCG Open Atlanta - March 2nd, 2014
Quarterfinals: Tom Ross vs. BBD (Miracles) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN88M9bL9M8

SCG Invitational - April 2nd, 2014
Round 10/16: Tom Ross vs. Ross Merriam (Elves) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6qcZy1RhYY

SCG Invitational - August 31st, 2014
Finals: Reid Duke (Miracles) vs. Tom Ross - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujNcDm8FQSU

SCG Invitational - August 31st, 2014
Quarterfinals: Jared Boettcher (SnS) vs. Tom Ross - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8TI1zGua1Y

SCG Invitational - August 31st, 2014
Round 3/16: Tom Ross vs. Gerry Thompson (Shardless BUG) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td5arSRG2PA

SCG Open Atlanta - September 14th, 2014
Semi-finals: Todd Anderson (Infect) vs. Brad Nelson (Infect) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IsQC9CxMjE

Cybey
10-18-2014, 09:11 AM
I noticed this version of UG Infect winning an SCG Qualifier:
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch

2 Berserk
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
4 Vines of Vastwood

3 Treasure Cruise
4 Gitaxian Probe

1 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
1 Windswept Heath
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs

Most notably are the full playset Force of Will and Daze and the 3 Treasure Cruise.
Have other people experimented with such a setup?

Punish Foolz
10-18-2014, 09:55 AM
// Deck: Infect (60)

// Lands
1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Pendelhaven
1 Savannah
3 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch

// Instants
2 Berserk
4 Brainstorm
2 Crop Rotation
3 Daze
1 Dig Through Time
3 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
2 Spell Pierce
4 Vines of Vastwood

// Sorceries
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Nature's Claim
SB: 2 Necropede
SB: 1 Piracy Charm
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Submerge
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 1 Sylvan Library

This is what I've been playing lately. I think crop rotation is too powerful to not be playing. Treasure cruise is powerful but the deck wants certain pieces, not card count. The dig through time in my list usually allows me to win the game that turn. You can also cast it mid combat after your pump spells have been countered (if you didn't have enough to delve with them on the stack) to find more. I've aggressively filled my yard with crop rotation finding a fetch and fetching. Sometimes I just use it as a test spell when I have the win in hand. Overall, I've been very pleased with the one of Dig Through Time but I would be hesitant to play more

whienot
10-18-2014, 10:58 AM
I find the UU for Dig Through Time is a bit prohibitive in a deck with 5 colorless lands, a Forest and a Pendelhaven.

Treasure Cruise isn't just about card count, often times its about rebuilding resources. This deck doesn't need specific cards to win. We're content to grind it out and typically lose when we run out of resources. It's also much easier to play multiple Cruises in a game, because of the additional card count. Treasure Cruise feels a lot like Sylvan Library; it's tough to lose once it resolves.

Also, Crop Rotation is quite good with the delve cards.

I'm running 4 Treasure Cruise and it's stupid.

Punish Foolz
10-18-2014, 02:16 PM
The double UU is why I only run a singleton. The only cards I could cut for cruise would be the countermagic and I'd rather keep it to fight combo decks seeing as infect is strong against the midrange decks and doesn't need to try to out card them

Darklingske
10-19-2014, 04:36 PM
I haven't tried the Cruises yet, but I'm planning on testing them. Hardest thing to do is choosing which spells to cut. I guess I can cut a probe, but what else? Testing will (hopefully) give me the answers.

ORDAL
10-19-2014, 05:07 PM
Today I've tried in a local tournament (27 people) to cut green sun zenith and dryad for treasure cruise and seems good

Dat_Gentleman
10-19-2014, 08:38 PM
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=74778

Both the Elves decks in tonight's top 8 play 1 Melira out of the board. Don't let those Glimpe for 2's resolve, guys.

mextremartini
10-19-2014, 09:17 PM
Ive been trying this list:

12 creatures
19 lands
10 pump
4 bs
4 ponder
4 probe
3 TREASURE CRUISe

Punish Foolz
10-20-2014, 12:00 AM
I wouldn't play this deck without the permission but that's just me

Specksynder
10-20-2014, 06:00 PM
With everyone else jumping on board the Delve-cestral Recall bus, is the white splash version better now because it has Rest In Peace? Blanking your opponents goyfs and Treasure Cruise's seems pretty good. That's a potential 4-8 cards in their deck that now do nothing.

Punish Foolz
10-20-2014, 10:31 PM
With everyone else jumping on board the Delve-cestral Recall bus, is the white splash version better now because it has Rest In Peace? Blanking your opponents goyfs and Treasure Cruise's seems pretty good. That's a potential 4-8 cards in their deck that now do nothing.
That was my logic for starting off with the white splash. The Atlanta open in late November will be my first tournament with the deck

poxy14
10-20-2014, 10:49 PM
before khans i was running maindeck 3 needles, and giving me success over a meta filled with sfms/jittes/wastelands
last week where i top 8ed, i tested 1 cruise main and i think i wanted more..
last sunday when i 4-0ed a small tourney, 2 cruises was the difference... gave me my much needed boosts mid game. TC is just very good here! especially with crop rots coz it fills our GY early..

that's why i cut number of probes over croprots, giving us an EOT inkmoth or tapping a pendel and searching for another pendel vs forked bolts or zealous is insanely good!

my list:
19 lands (1forest/8fetches/2pendels/4trops/4inkmoths)
12 crits (4nobles/4blighteds/4glisteners)
29 spells (4 each of fows/vines/invigorates/bstorms....2 probes/2tc/2croprots/2berserks/2needles...3dazes

the only matchup i worry bout are decks with grims/jittes/reanimators...i added another copy of berserk for my unfair matchup, coz im confident i can go faster vs them.
maindeck needle was a bonus too vs SnTs, and probing then needling fetches are a bonus too! i will look for another spot to include back the 3rd copy.

helpers:
2 beb/2pierces/2necropedes/2surgicals/2tormods/1naturalize/1claim/2grips/1berserk

didnt carry any creature hate, and my artifact hate are variables so i have lots of outs vs a resolved chalice 1.

Specksynder
10-21-2014, 06:00 PM
I'm reading the recent Tom Ross SCG article where he goes into side boarding. It is super helpful but I'm having trouble with the one aspect he doesn't cover, what to take out. Anyone have some insight there? Especially with the white splash list. I am for sure not playing my SB optimally right now.

datanaga
10-24-2014, 05:11 AM
Hello, I'm new with UG infect. Yesterday I played this deck for the first time at tournament, went 3:1, beat ur delver, bug delver, ant and loose to dark maverick due to budget, greed and misplay.

decklist:

19 lands
---------
2x pendell
8x fetch
4x trop
1x forest
4x inkmoth

12 creatures
------------
4x agent
4x noble
4x glistener

29 noncreature spells
--------------------
1x pierce
4x fow
3x daze
2x crop rot
3x ponder
4x brainstorm
2x gitaxian probe
2x become immense (will be berserk)
4x invigorate
4x vines of vastwood

sb:
3x pierce
3x needle
1x wasteland
1x bojuka bog
2x surgical
1x krosan grip
2x natures claim
2x submerge

Immense won me one game where berserk would not, but also loose one game to resolved teeg with immense in hand, card is not bad, but I would prefer 2x berserk for more explosive hands and would like to play some treasure cruises too. Still not sure about treasure cruise in this deck, read this: http://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/2iiphv/the_best_shells_for_treasure_cruise/

"[–]Youtube_Money
I won an IQ last weekend playing UG Infect with 3 Treasure Cruise main and the fourth in the sideboard.

Long story short, the card is NOT GOOD in Infect. I cast it one time in 6 played rounds, and it was Force'd. I also pitched it to Force once. I essentially boarded them out every game I could and replaced them with the cheap interactive spells I had cut for them.

I still think Treasure Cruise is the most important card to hit the format since DRS and Decay. It seems excellent in many flavors of Delver and Stoneblade. I'm still very high on the card, though I most likely won't play it in Infect ever again.


[–]notaprisonerTeeg is my homeboy

I still think Treasure Cruise is the most important card to hit the format since DRS and Decay. It seems excellent in many flavors of Delver and Stoneblade. I'm still very high on the card, though I most likely won't play it in Infect ever again.

I agree with this. However, while a stoneblade deck with it would be good, there's little reason to bother with the slower SFM plan when you can just play Delver and bash.


[–]UnconfidenceEsper Control - U/G Infect

Yeah, I would definitely not put it into my U/G Infect deck. It's just far too slow."

Punish Foolz
10-24-2014, 07:10 AM
I was a fan of Dig Through Time as a one of until recently. I was running a dig, 3 probes, and a ponder. I decided to cut the dig and a probe for 2 more ponders and it's been great

Holden1669
10-28-2014, 12:01 PM
I am trying out three Treasure Cruise in the deck and it's been mostly positive. On one hand if we're setting up for the fast kill it doesn't do too much and this deck doesn't fill the graveyard very quickly if things are going well. It has definitely saved me a few times in the grindier games, though. Also a lot of the time in the grindy games where they manage to kill a few of our guys I end up with a lot of lands and can Cruise without delving the full seven. Maybe two is the right number but I really can't imagine that zero of Cruise/Dig is correct.

As far as Cruise vs. Dig goes I'm going to going to replace two of the cruises with Dig Through Time and see how it feels. Whiffing on Cruise when looking for a pump spell is pretty bad.

Here is my current list. I have kept the Crop Rotation package for flexibility and because it helps to fill the graveyard quickly. I am interested in trying the white splash but I don't think I'd bring the Rest in Peace in vs. non-BUG tempo decks. I think we should be trying to outrace and out-maneuver UR Delver instead of turning off their Cruises. They still have plenty of cantrips, removal and speed if we manage to blank those four cards.

* 19 lands
1 - Forest
3 - Tropical Island
9 - Green Fetches
4- Inkmoth Nexus
2 - Pendelhaven

* 12 creatures
4 - Glistener Elf
4 - Blighted Agent
4 - Noble Hierarch

* 29 spells
3 - Gitaxian Probe
1 - Ponder
4 - Brainstorm
3 - Treasure Cruise
3 - Daze
2 - Force of Will
1 - Spell Pierce
2 - Crop Rotation
4 - Invigorate
4 - Vines of Vastwood
2 - Berserk

* sideboard
1 - Bojuka Bog
1 - Wasteland
1 - Blue Elemental Blast
1 - Flusterstorm
1 - Piracy Charm
1 - Spell Pierce
1 - Nature's Claim
1 - Null Rod
1 - Submerge
2 - Krosan Grip
2 - Necropede
2 - Force of Will

I would love to get more permission in the maindeck but I'm not sure what to cut. Daze is great but even another Force might be nice to have in the main.

poxy14
10-29-2014, 01:12 AM
last sat where i run 3 TC main, 11 games total and all it did significantly was to be fow pitched...
with the rise of urcruise (forked bolts) and meta will pack hate vs 1 toughness hordes.. uginfect will definitely be affected.
the game plan is to go off early, by the time we Tcruise, the game state should already have a clear view if we'll win or lose.

decided to cut number of cruises for more relevant spells i can execute early on..
(i'll test this list further this weekend before the major tourney on Nov16)

crits (12)
4 each = nobles, blighteds, glisteners

lands (19) i like the 9 fetch/3 trops posted ^, and i will try that
4 inkmoths/4trops/1 forest/ 2 pendels (mvp vs forked bolts, zealous, toxic) 8 fetches

spells (29)

4 fows
4 dazes (loaded counters for more crit protection/connect early with invi/berserk/defense vs opposing combo decks
4 bstorms
1 treasure cruise
1 ponder
2 probes
2 crop rots (my favorite card in this deck!)

4 invigorates
4 vines
2 berserks
1 groundswell (was the 3rd berserk, but sometimes i really like that addtional pump, especially crit toughness pump)

SB
2 kgrips
1 naturalize (i dont carry claim, as it has no app vs cbtop/chalices for 1...might switch this to a 3rd grip
2 surgicals
1 tormods
1 relic progenitus
1 mizzium skin
2 bebs
1 pithing needle
1 necropede
1 sylvan lib
2 pierces

ryanghall
11-01-2014, 05:47 PM
Hi,

I'm fairly new to Legacy, but I'm going to put up my sideboarding list for this deck. I use Brad Nelson's deck, found here: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/dd/legacy-infect-2014-09-19

Any help/advice/insight would be great.

My biggest questions with sideboarding are a) when to side out Force of Will. Should I always be leaving in some number? b) Am I siding out Crop Rotation too much?
After getting recommendations, maybe we can fix this list and post it? Also, does anyone know Brad Nelson and want to direct him here? That would be amazing!

UR Delver

+1 Krosan Grip (I bring this in for Blood Moon and go up to 2 if I see it. Also good against Needle)
+1 Spellskite
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Flusterstorm

-3 Force of Will
-2 Crop Rotation
-1 Glistener Elf

Does anyone side in Sylvan Library here (or against all Delver variants), as Delver is the control player?

RUG Delver

+1 Krosan Grip (I bring this in for Blood Moon and go up to 2 if I see it. Also good against Needle)
+2 Submerge
+1 Spellskite
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Flusterstorm

-3 Force of Will
-2 Crop Rotation
-1 Glistener Elf
-1 Ponder


BUG Delver

+2 Submerge
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Sylvan Library

-1 Crop Rotation
-3 Force of Will

UWR Delver

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Spellskite
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Flusterstorm

-3 Force of Will
-2 Crop Rotation
-1 Ponder
-1 Gitaxian Probe


4c Delver

+2 Submerge
+1 Spellskite
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Flusterstorm

-3 Force of Will
-2 Crop Rotation
-1 Glistener Elf


UWR Miracles

+2 Krosan Grip
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Sylvan Library

-3 Daze
-1 Ponder
-1 Force of Will

Elves

+2 Submerge
+2 Grafdiggers Cage
+1 Force of Will

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Crop Rotation
..some Dazes could come out on the draw?

Sneak and Show

+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Force of Will
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Flusterstorm

-2 Crop Rotation
-1 Ponder
-2 Vines of Vastwood

Mono Red Sneak Attack

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Force of Will
+1 Karakas

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Stifle
-3 Daze

Burn

+1 Force of Will
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Spellskite

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Stifle

Infect

+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Spellskite
+1 Nature's Claim

-3 Force of Will (on play)
-3 Daze (on draw)

Lands

+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Krosan Grip (side the 3rd if you see Chalice or Sphere)
+1 Karakas
+1 Bojuka Bog
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Force of Will
+1 Submerge (on draw)

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-3 Daze
-1 Spell Pierce (on draw)

Tezzerator

+1 Nature's Claim
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Force of Will
+1 Bojuka Bog

on play
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Stifle
-1 Ponder

on draw
-1 Stifle
-3 Daze
-1 Gitaxian Probe

Death and Taxes

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Karakas
+1 Sylvan Library

on play
-3 Force of Will
-2 Gitaxian Probe

on draw
-3 Daze
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Force of Will

Deathblade

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Sylvan Library

-2 Crop Rotation
-2 Force of Will

Esper Stoneblade

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Sylvan Library

-2 Crop Rotation
-2 Force of Will

Shardless BUG

+2 Submerge
+1 Sylvan Library

-3 Force of Will

ANT

+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Force of Will
+1 Flusterstorm
+2 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Bojuka Bog

-4 Inkmoth Nexus
-3 Vines of Vastwood

Belcher

+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Force of Will
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Spellskite

-2 Crop Rotation
-3 Gitaxian Probe

Dredge

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Bojuka Bog
+2 Grafdigger's Cage

on play
-3 Force of Will
-1 Stifle
-2 Daze

on draw
-3 Daze
-1 Stifle
-2 Force of Will

Merfolk

+2 Krosan Grip (if you think they have Jitte)

on play
-1 Stifle
-1 Force of Will
on draw
-1 Stifle
-1 Daze

High Tide

+1 Force of Will
+1 Flusterstorm

-2 Crop Rotation

OmniTell

+1 Force of Will
+1 Flusterstorm

-2 Crop Rotation

Jund

+1 Bojuka Bog (if Punishing Fire)
+1 Spellskite
+1 Blue Elemental Blast (if Bloodbraid Elf)
+1 Sylvan Library
+2 Submerge

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-3 Force of Will

Imperial Painter

+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Force of Will

on play
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Crop Rotation
-1 Daze

on draw
-3 Daze
-2 Crop Rotation
-1 Gitaxian Probe

Reanimator

+1 Force of Will
+1 Flusterstorm
+2 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Bojuka Bog
+1 Karakas

-4 Inkmoth Nexus
-1 Ponder
-1 Vines of Vastwood

Metalworker

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Force of Will
+1 Bojuka Bog

-1 Stifle
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Vines of Vastwood

Nic Fit Recurring Nightmare

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Spellskite
+1 Sylvan Library
+2 Grafdigger's Cage
+2 Submerge
+1 Bojuka Bog

-3 Force of Will
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-3 Daze
-1 Ponder

Mono Black Pox

+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Krosan Grip

-1 Stifle
-3 Gitaxian Probe

datanaga
11-07-2014, 06:59 AM
Unless Treasure Cruise will be banned, I think UG infect is almost unplayable in today's meta. We have negative matchup against UR delver, and sideboard strategy against young pyromancer is very effective against us. Every one is playing cards like forked bolt, grim lavamacer, darkblast, jitte, blood moon, golgari charm etc.
Im definitely happy, that I didnt purchase my berserks yet.

What is your experience?

datanaga
11-12-2014, 07:09 AM
Tom Ross's decklist from last SCG Legacy Open Columbus, he made TOP 32

1 Wasteland
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
2 Pendelhaven

4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Noble Hierarch

2 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Daze
4 Invigorate
3 Spell Pierce
2 Berserk
4 Vines of Vastwood
1 Crop Rotation
1 Become Immense
1 Piracy Charm

SB: 1 Spell Pierce
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Necropede
SB: 1 Submerge
SB: 1 Piracy Charm
SB: 2 Force of Will
SB: 2 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Treasure Cruise
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Sylvan Library

Jesture
11-12-2014, 10:32 AM
Tom Ross's decklist from last SCG Legacy Open Columbus, he made TOP 32

1 Wasteland
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
2 Pendelhaven

4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Noble Hierarch

2 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Daze
4 Invigorate
3 Spell Pierce
2 Berserk
4 Vines of Vastwood
1 Crop Rotation
1 Become Immense
1 Piracy Charm

SB: 1 Spell Pierce
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Necropede
SB: 1 Submerge
SB: 1 Piracy Charm
SB: 2 Force of Will
SB: 2 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Treasure Cruise
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Sylvan Library


I'm a little puzzled about some of the changes he's made since his invitational list.

Upping the count of pendelhaven, spell pierce and daze while going down a force of will seems to be a direct response to the rise in popularity of TC delver decks, UR in particular.

What I don't follow is the inclusion of a maindeck piracy charm, and cutting white from the sideboard. Does the utility of piracy charm really outweigh the raw power of stp creature removal? Access to white has never been a problem for the deck, and the replacement of Savannah for a 4th trop barely increases the power level of daze in the deck.

On another note, what matchups are best suited for bringing in necropede? I feel like its intended for fair decks, but it just seems a bit lackluster against delver. Maybe elves?

Edited for spelling

datanaga
11-12-2014, 10:59 AM
I'm a little puzzled about some of the changes he's made since his invitational list.

Upping the count of pendelhaven, spell pierce and daze while going down a force of will seems to be a direct response to the rise in popularity of TC delver decks, UR in particular.

What I don't follow is the inclusion of a maindeck piracy charm, and cutting white from the sideboard. Does the utility of piracy charm really outweigh the raw power of stp creature removal? Access to white has never been a problem for the deck, and the replacement of Savannah for a 4th trop barely increases the power level of daze in the deck.

On another note, what matchups are best suited for bringing in necropede? I feel like its intended for fair decks, but it just seems a bit lackluster against delver. Maybe elves?

Edited for spelling

His current list is much more similar to lists which were played at SCG Atlanta ( http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8179&d=247092&f=LE )
Personally I don't like white splash in UG infect at all, imho we don't need swords so desperately, piracy charm can deal with unfliped delver, young pyromacer and grim lavamacer, btw I supose that necropede is against decks which can side in grim lavamancer and maybe elves.

dog_koko
11-12-2014, 12:21 PM
I think Piracy Charm is to give your creature "Islandwalk", remember that you will fight lots of URs with lots of tokens

datanaga
11-12-2014, 06:48 PM
Islandwalk is not the main reason, 2/3 of our creatures are unblockable by pyromancers tokens naturally, there are better cards for unblockableble attack like Distortion Strike. I like the piracy charm flexibility, all modes (boost/kill/instant discard/unblockable) are relevant in this deck.

Jesture
11-14-2014, 12:12 PM
Islandwalk is not the main reason, 2/3 of our creatures are unblockable by pyromancers tokens naturally, there are better cards for unblockableble attack like Distortion Strike. I like the piracy charm flexibility, all modes (boost/kill/instant discard/unblockable) are relevant in this deck.

Flexibility is definitely a plus, but I feel as though the power level offered by piracy charm in the UR delver matchup just isn't enough to warrant a main deck inclusion. Maybe Ross was expecting to hit many other decks where the charm shines? If anyone has any experience with the Columbus area meta, that could be really insightful here.

bhsman
11-16-2014, 02:09 PM
Tom Ross playing some good Magic, just beat Lan Pham(?) to go 13-1.

EDIT: And now he's back on the Pro Tour! :D

datanaga
11-16-2014, 05:58 PM
that was crazy 3rd game in quarterfinals:) go tom!

GoblinZ
11-16-2014, 06:18 PM
that was crazy 3rd game in quarterfinals:) go tom!

In spite of that risky brainstorm, Tom Ross really play a great game.

poxy14
11-16-2014, 08:36 PM
top'ed8 a legacy 25+man tourney yesterday 5 rounds (4-1)
2-1 mud, 2-1 jeskai stoneblade, 1-2 reanimator, 2-0 mud, 2-1 jeskai stoneblade......quarters 1-2 urcruise

before losing to 1-2 vs urcruise, 3rd game in which i didnt draw any invigorates that couldve sealed the W for me..

packed in 3 BEB effects and a mizzium skin, and it did great!
managed to beat 2 jeskai stoneblades, 1 game me hard casting a fow over a counterspell for my invi..it was awesome!

i carried a 1 of's tcruise, groundswell, ponder...maindecked 4 fows, 4 dazes...
hope tom ross wins the GP for our banner!

jimmythegreek
11-23-2014, 08:36 PM
Surprised this thread is so quiet...honestly the deck seems under the radar and totally bonkers good. Umm...crop rotation end of turn for ink moth is too good.

Seven_six
11-24-2014, 09:18 AM
It is a good deck and I have it built at all times, but play it against UR delver and it is a tough win unless you draw well. Then can you by turn 4 or 5 all while having counter magic and removal open. Electrickery is now a commonly used card that will hose you if you over extend, and they will apply pressure while you wait to make sure you have enough counter/pump to win through.

poxy14
11-24-2014, 10:45 PM
mizzium skin should be an auto include in the sb these days, and has done me well vs forked, electrikery, zealous, golgari charm...
vs ur, you will always have an advantage in land count with nobles, thus providing u ways to interact with vines and pierces too vs their removals...

crop rot to pendel is a very nice trick too. and once u resolved an invi, it shld be game.
ive included a 1 off groundswell for additional toughness support, rather than 3rd beserk or become immense (too slow for me)
treasure cruise provides us reload, 2 is just enough as it is a dead card early on.

fired88
12-04-2014, 01:28 PM
I've been trying a somewhat new build of infect and been going X-0 X-1 at my local shop. Although I can't say it's the most competitive meta down there. Though lots of the players there did top the SCG open in my state, including me (1st place :smile: ).

But instead of become immense, I've been running 2x Dig through times. I feel like it does what you want become immense does but better and more. You can most likely get an invigorate/pump or two and turn the dig into any where from a +4/+4 to a +8/+8 spell, find berserk+pump for 1 shot, or find what ever pieces you are missing. Only down side is Dig is UU and 1 extra delve cost, but you always have the plus side of it being blue and pitchable to FOW when you are going off early and don't have enough to delve.

I'm running 3 probes, 4 ponders, and 4 BS to help fill the yard and help smooth out draws for when you want or don't want the dig through times. Also I upped to 4 force of wills since the blue count is higher and the dig through times can help with the long term card disadvantage.

I cut the wasteland, crop rotation, and stifle plan from the deck to make room. I feel my build is more streamline at finding combo pieces and win versus having a toolbox/plan B tempo plan strategy. I will admit there were times I miss having a wasteland to break up burning grove combo/maze of ith, and the crop rotation can be used to fill the yard too, but I disliked the card advantage and felt most the times I was just holding it in hand for emergencies instead of being proactive.

Sorry for the wall, don't post much here but thought I'd share my brew idea and get some feedback.

Seven_six
12-04-2014, 06:42 PM
Can you post a list? How do you for the ponders? Are you cutting daze or pierce??

poxy14
12-04-2014, 10:53 PM
i love treasure cruise in this deck
(i play tempo decks and has been on RUGdelver most of my life : ), and i hate treasure cruise!)

equipped with 2 crop rots, tc will be fast! i usually crop rot to fetch to trop/forest for max gy buildup.
croprots also are our 13th/14th infect creatures and it's haste considering it'll be an eot inkmoth.
crop rots are very valuable here.. will punish punishing fire once u call pendelhavens, and blanks wastelands too.

that's why my i tend to use a 1-off groundswell, that i can cast anytime rather than BImmense..
i'll dedicate my delves on just tc's for reload.

Jesture
12-05-2014, 10:36 AM
I've been trying a somewhat new build of infect and been going X-0 X-1 at my local shop. Although I can't say it's the most competitive meta down there. Though lots of the players there did top the SCG open in my state, including me (1st place :smile: ).

But instead of become immense, I've been running 2x Dig through times. I feel like it does what you want become immense does but better and more. You can most likely get an invigorate/pump or two and turn the dig into any where from a +4/+4 to a +8/+8 spell, find berserk+pump for 1 shot, or find what ever pieces you are missing. Only down side is Dig is UU and 1 extra delve cost, but you always have the plus side of it being blue and pitchable to FOW when you are going off early and don't have enough to delve.

I'm running 3 probes, 4 ponders, and 4 BS to help fill the yard and help smooth out draws for when you want or don't want the dig through times. Also I upped to 4 force of wills since the blue count is higher and the dig through times can help with the long term card disadvantage.

I cut the wasteland, crop rotation, and stifle plan from the deck to make room. I feel my build is more streamline at finding combo pieces and win versus having a toolbox/plan B tempo plan strategy. I will admit there were times I miss having a wasteland to break up burning grove combo/maze of ith, and the crop rotation can be used to fill the yard too, but I disliked the card advantage and felt most the times I was just holding it in hand for emergencies instead of being proactive.

Sorry for the wall, don't post much here but thought I'd share my brew idea and get some feedback.

This doesn't feel like where you want to be with infect. While the deck does have combo elements, it's ultimately playing like an old RUG delver deck that sticks a threat and then protects it for long enough to get the job done. At 6UU, I don't see dig being cast reliably before turn 4, considering that you want to land a threat by turn 2 at the latest, and that inkmoth and basic forest don't provide blue mana to help pay for UU.

The ponders also feel clunky in the deck. While they are far and away the best choice for smoothing out the deck (outside of four brainstorm), they force you to take actions main phase rather than at instant speed. Infect is a deck that thrives on small windows of opportunity created by out maneuvering the opponent. If you're cutting soft counters for ponders (just assuming, I can't imagine you'd cut anything else), you're hurting yourself two fold, both by preemptively tapping lands on your turn and by removing the soft counter package that can double up as protection for your infect creatures.

hobart
12-05-2014, 11:52 AM
Here is my current list, it's been pretty strong and consistent:

Spells: 29

4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Brainstorm
4x Invigorate
4x Vines of Vastwood
2x Crop Rotation
2x Berserk
3x Treasure Cruise
2x Gitaxian Probe

Creatures: 12

4x Noble Hierarch
4x Glistener Elf
4x Blighted Agent

Lands: 19

3x Windswept Heath
1x Misty Rainforest
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Tropical Island
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Forest
1x Wasteland
1x Pendlehaven

Sideboard: 15

2x Grafdiggers Cage
1x Submerge
2x Spell Pierce
1x Nature’s Claim
2x Krosan Grip
1x Necropede
2x Viridian Corrupter
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Hydroblast
1x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Sylvan Library

In my testing the one card I wish I had more often is actually Gitaxian Probe. The info obtained is incredibly valuable in this deck because you are always playing chicken during your combat phase with pump spells and there is always a choice to just kill them right there (instead of say just going for a 2 poison hit), but if you go for it and they've got the bolt of whatever your board is wiped and you do no poison. But I'm really stuck on what to take out for more probes. I think with 3 TCs the 4 Force of Wills are automatic, so I'm stuck on those, but I'm not so sure about the full set of dazes. When the opponent is tapped out they are obviously amazing, but against a deck like miracles or even UR Delver, they often have the mana to play a removal spell around daze, and the card really sucks to draw mid or late game. Do you guys think it makes any sense at all to maybe drop 2 of the dazes for the rest of the set of Probes? Is daze even something you want at all if you cant play 4? Does dropping a daze and a force make any sense?

Jesture
12-05-2014, 12:23 PM
3 cruises seems ambitious. The only way I see even 2 resolving in a game is if you're aggressively crop rotating for delve, and that seems really dangerous if you want to go down to 2 daze and sb spell pierces. I would consider cutting pendlehaven or moving it to sb for another fetch in the main to help out with delve. You could even cut an inkmoth depending on your meta, as 2 crop rotations in the main are basically instant speed fliers with infect.

Depending on what your meta looks like, you might want to consider swapping 2 maindeck forces for the spell pierces in the side. Going 2 for 1 on counterspells is a necessary evil of legacy, but dumping spell pierces does just as well early game while doing a much better job of fueling delve. As for probe, I think it's a fantastic card, though I'm still unsure of what the correct number to run is. My current list only runs 2, as burn seems to be in full swing at my shop. That said, I'm curious to know how 3 or even 4 of probes play out in the deck.

Edited for punctuation

hobart
12-05-2014, 02:56 PM
3 cruises seems ambitious. The only way I see even 2 resolving in a game is if you're aggressively crop rotating for delve, and that seems really dangerous if you want to go down to 2 daze and sb spell pierces. I would consider cutting pendlehaven or moving it to sb for another fetch in the main to help out with delve. You could even cut an inkmoth depending on your meta, as 2 crop rotations in the main are basically instant speed fliers with infect.

Edited for punctuation

I think I agree. I just love treasure cruise I kinda just jammed 3 in there, but it really is never about resolving multiple cruises. It's more about drawing that one when you need to reload. I may swap out the 3rd cruise for a 3rd probe and see if it feels better. THANKS!

Jesture
12-05-2014, 08:54 PM
Any thoughts on Ryan Macedo's approach to infect? I'm on mobile atm, so I can't post the list, but I remember it top 8'd one of the very recent scg opens.

The main difference was an inclusion of 3 stifle and 2 wastelands for a pseudo mana denial strategy. Additionally, his list had no cruises and 2 copies of become immense in the main. RUG delver's old mana denial plan was incredibly strong, so I can see it meshing well with infect creatures. Maybe this is something we can try out, at least until people are wise to stifles again.

poxy14
12-05-2014, 09:27 PM
@hobart - 1 tc + 1 probe is the way to go..

here's my current list, that's been doin wonders lately

19 lands (loaded on fetches to support tc)
3 trops/1forest/3windswept/3mistyrf/3wooded/2pendels/4inkmoths

12 creatures
4 each of nobles/glisteners/blighteds

29 spells
(my current meta is ur, so i want to finish games early with 2 groundswells as additional aggressive pumps, with 9 fetches and crop rots GW is live almost all the time)

4 fows
3 dazes
1 pierce
2 gtaxian probes
2 treasure cruise
4 brainstorms
2 crop rots
2 groundswells
3 vines vastwood (i always consider this spell a counter spell for removal and not a pump on this deck, probe however will smoothen out its function)
4 invigorates
2 berserks

sb: (i dont put creature hate anymore, i believe this deck just wan to hit fast! and theyre not putting pressure on me, it's the other way around)
2 hydroblasts
1 mizzium skin (decay, toxic, forked, golgari charm...submerges...works as my 4th vines
1 dispel (might change to 2nd mizzium skin
2 pierces
1 sylvan lib
1 pithing needle
2 surgicals
1 tormod's crypt
1 necropede
2 krosan grips
1 naturalize (i dont carry claim as it's dead vs chalice1)

Mockingbird
12-05-2014, 09:39 PM
Additionally, his list had no cruises and 2 copies of become immense in the main.

What people realized with the Modern Infect is that Treasure Cruise (and to a different extent Dig Through Time as noted on the previous page) is that in essence both cards have the same function as Become Immense. All the delve cards that could be played serve the same purpose: make a lethal creature. The difference between the blue delve cards and green delve card though is that the blue ones dig for the kill while the green one is the kill, and the consensus I last saw was that the blue ones were better because they could prevent or recover being blown out of the game.

Alex_UNLIMITED
12-08-2014, 07:40 PM
I've noticed that in the quarterfinals of GP New Jersey Tom Ross hasn't sideboarded Krosan Grip against Miracles. I'm wrong? Watch from 6:50!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxbEWzjUiHE

Jesture
12-09-2014, 01:21 PM
I've noticed that in the quarterfinals of GP New Jersey Tom Ross hasn't sideboarded Krosan Grip against Miracles. I'm wrong? Watch from 6:50!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxbEWzjUiHE

Interesting choice on his part. There might be an argument for not needing to be afraid of counter top, but I can't say I'd do the same in that position. The only reason I could imagine is to lower the number of 3 drops, preparing for any 3 drops Phillip might float with counterbalance to deal with invigorate. At that point though, it just feels like unnecessary mind gaming.

Jesture
12-09-2014, 01:24 PM
Good catch though, Alex. Im always curious to see how pro players sideboard, as I feel it's a lot more complicated than people initially give it credit for. Seeing stuff like this is really interesting, and it always prompts me to reevaluate how I approach post board games.

Seven_six
12-11-2014, 12:31 PM
Any thoughts on Ryan Macedo's approach to infect? I'm on mobile atm, so I can't post the list, but I remember it top 8'd one of the very recent scg opens.

The main difference was an inclusion of 3 stifle and 2 wastelands for a pseudo mana denial strategy. Additionally, his list had no cruises and 2 copies of become immense in the main. RUG delver's old mana denial plan was incredibly strong, so I can see it meshing well with infect creatures. Maybe this is something we can try out, at least until people are wise to stifles again.

RUG delver worked because it had 12 creatures, removal and denial, and could easily operate with little mana. 8 creatures were hard to kill. We have essentially 16 creatures and no removal, our creatures are very easy to kill (ignoring the protection spells we have). We are also more mana intensive. Though it may be worth testing, I don't see this as the right solution.

jimmythegreek
12-14-2014, 09:17 PM
Unless Treasure Cruise will be banned, I think UG infect is almost unplayable in today's meta. We have negative matchup against UR delver, and sideboard strategy against young pyromancer is very effective against us. Every one is playing cards like forked bolt, grim lavamacer, darkblast, jitte, blood moon, golgari charm etc.
Im definitely happy, that I didnt purchase my berserks yet.

What is your experience?

I'm sick of hearing about "the meta".......there is no real reason why you can't play this deck or any other competitive deck, unless your play group is so inbred that certain strategies are un playable in which case that's sad. This deck allows you to out maneuver the opponent and forces them to play very defensive in many situations. Remember that patience pays when playing infect and an end of turn crop rotation is often game.

poxy14
12-14-2014, 10:34 PM
Remember that patience pays when playing infect and an end of turn crop rotation is often game.

+1, that's why crop rots deserve atleast 2 slots in our main as it is so vital in this very deck.

Lethalbiscotti
12-15-2014, 05:42 AM
Has anybody tried Misdirection as a one-of? Just thought of it considering that it could act as a 3rd "FoW." Redirects Bolt, STP, etc to opponent's monsters. Might be too heavy on wasting two cards, but any thoughts?

Seven_six
12-15-2014, 09:27 AM
Has anybody tried Misdirection as a one-of? Just thought of it considering that it could act as a 3rd "FoW." Redirects Bolt, STP, etc to opponent's monsters. Might be too heavy on wasting two cards, but any thoughts?

Might worth trying a 2/1 split FoW misdirection... I have tried running a single divert in the SB instead of the 4th spell pierce. I don't get to practice as much as I would like though so maybe other ppl can try out divert? The nice thing about it (and misdir) is that they can stop decays (if there is another valid target) and hydro/pyroblasts.

Another thing I have been pondering while there is a large amount of red targeted removal is a SB slot or two for would defiance. Yes it is a bit slow, but if it lands then their targeted removal is useless.

Jesture
12-16-2014, 02:08 PM
Might worth trying a 2/1 split FoW misdirection... I have tried running a single divert in the SB instead of the 4th spell pierce. I don't get to practice as much as I would like though so maybe other ppl can try out divert? The nice thing about it (and misdir) is that they can stop decays (if there is another valid target) and hydro/pyroblasts.

Another thing I have been pondering while there is a large amount of red targeted removal is a SB slot or two for would defiance. Yes it is a bit slow, but if it lands then their targeted removal is useless.

I'm looking to do some testing with divert next time I play legacy, but I definitely don't think misdirection is where this deck wants to be. The card disadvantage from force of will is already very taxing, but we play copies of the card in order to answer faster combo decks. Misdirection seems ideal as an easy 2 for 2 by directing removal spells at opposing creatures, but it doesn't answer hate permanents or combo finishes, the 2 reasons why we play force of will. Given that infect does a reasonable job of operating when both players are tight on resources, I think divert might be a reasonable sb choice that does what misdirection does minus the card disadvantage.

I've done some testing with wild defiance, and it's usually just a turn too slow to end up mattering. That said, it's one of the better answers I can think of to sudden shock, so if those start showing up en masse it might be good to give that card another chance. Outside of that though, we're usually looking to end the game a turn or two before we can set up wild defiance.

Alex_UNLIMITED
12-16-2014, 06:17 PM
What do you think about UR Delver and Maverick match-ups? I think they are very difficult!

Jesture
12-16-2014, 11:50 PM
What do you think about UR Delver and Maverick match-ups? I think they are very difficult!

UR Delver's always been tricky, as the deck just does a fantastic job picking apart your threats with forked bolts and lightning bolts then reloading with cruise (ie. the deck does what it's supposed to do). Post board can get really nasty if people are playing sudden shock, but from what I can tell that hasn't caught on in a lot of places, so that's not something you should be too worried about for now. Best advice I can give is to just play the match-up repeatedly. You're looking to exploit windows in which you can generate some advantage out of your cards. Pay attention to when people are tapped out, what they're representing, and what combat scenarios you can set up in which you'll come out ahead. Be patient and use your soft counters to obtain information throughout the game rather than saving them for an alpha strike turn. Young Pyromancer makes Glistener Elf a lot worse, so I'd even consider siding out a copy or two post board for a slower and steadier game plan. I'd also recommend cutting FoW's g2 and g3, as you're already fighting an uphill battle in raw card numbers, and UR delver doesn't have any priority must-counter cards.

Funny that you bring up Maverick, they were talking about the Infect matchup not too long ago
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20612-Deck-GW-x-Maverick/page278
I'm not sure how the matchup plays out, as I haven't had a lot of experience against Maverick myself. That said, I don't see a lot that you need to be afraid of besides their random arsenal of equipments. SoFI seems ugly, and Jitte is just unstoppable once it has counters on it, so do your best to keep those off the table whenever you can. Keep in mind the neat little tricks you have with Vines and Stifle (stop the equip, stifle adding counters to Jitte) (for the love of god just don't let Jitte get counters). Side in artifact removal and Sylvan Library if you have them, maybe side out FoW's, though it mostly depends on what they're running. If you're not running a white splash for StP, don't forget that you can use Berserk as removal to take out hate bears.

M+1
12-17-2014, 03:32 AM
The UR matchup is indeed bad, and sometimes it gets even worse after SB, because you have to watch out for random stuff like Electrickery (which is annoying because it dodges Vines) or Blood Moon. If you are running the white splash (I am not) Absolute Law might be the best solution. In an attempt to improve my MTGO UG Infect matchup against UR I have done some testing with 2 maindeck Wild Defiance, and yes it is slow, but you get full value for the cost if it hits. It specifically makes Berserk much better, so I have upped the Berserk count to 3, cut FoW and some blue spells overall.

This line of play has come up a few times: T1 Noble, T2 Wild Defiance, T3 attack with Inkmoth, Berserk for 10 with counter backup. It's nice because you are only investing a Berserk in the attempt, everything else is a permanent.

If you are looking for a new counter to fight removal, I recommend Dispel. In testing it has been surprisingly good as a hard counter for bolt/StP/counters.

Jitte is bad news. I have probably lost more games to Jitte than any other single card. My current way of fighting it is Krosan Grip/Pithing Needle in SB, and sometimes Tower of the Magistrate in the main or SB.

poxy14
12-17-2014, 10:15 PM
UR cruise is a tough matchup since they carry forked bolts and can interact with our pumps via counterspells and lightning bolts.
or i should say any deck that carries forked bolts will be tough... some RUGdelver builts carries em too.

Maverick is a positive matchup for us, sfm-jitte is really slow for them, i always counter thalia, when i dont have early nobles coz it makes it harder for our invi/berserk combo to connect early.. sideboards we have help via krosan grips..im not running stifles here anymore, just make sure u save some vines for their own crits upon equipping, it'll save u time to go ftw next turn.. eot inkmoths via croprots are key here too.

adrieng
12-21-2014, 01:17 AM
Hi I have been testing a build with 4 thought scour and 4 mental note so that I can play
4 TC and 4 become immense main and find this configuration awesome.
What do you run in side ? What's the classic configuration ?
Did anyone tryed tower of the magistrate for jitte ?
The Beb/hydroblast are really worth ? I mean they basically counter one removal for our creature ?

3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Pendelhaven
2 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus

4 Mental Note
4 Thought Scour
3 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
4 Become Immense
4 Treasure Cruise

4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Brainstorm
1 Crop Rotation


SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Envelop
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Wasteland
SB: 2 Swan Song
SB: 3 Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage

Jesture
12-21-2014, 07:30 PM
Hi I have been testing a build with 4 thought scour and 4 mental note so that I can play
4 TC and 4 become immense main and find this configuration awesome.
What do you run in side ? What's the classic configuration ?
Did anyone tryed tower of the magistrate for jitte ?
The Beb/hydroblast are really worth ? I mean they basically counter one removal for our creature ?

3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Pendelhaven
2 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus

4 Mental Note
4 Thought Scour
3 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
4 Become Immense
4 Treasure Cruise

4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Brainstorm
1 Crop Rotation


SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Envelop
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Wasteland
SB: 2 Swan Song
SB: 3 Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage

Short Answer: Your list confuses me.

Long Answer: This list seems bad.


Hi I have been testing a build with 4 thought scour and 4 mental note so that I can play
4 TC and 4 become immense main and find this configuration awesome.
There's a lot wrong with this. Instead of dazes and spell pierces, you're effectively running 8 copies of a card that say "Cycle: U". Yeah, they're fantastic for powering out your strong delve cards, but you're basically forfeiting your turns 1-3 in order to set up for more cards to draw. Even with these accelerants, you're still limited by the number of delve cards you can cast. At best, you're dumping 3-4 cards in the yard every turn, so your first TC is on turn 3, followed by another one on turn 5-6. Furthermore, if you somehow have time to deploy threats throughout all of this you won't have any way to protect them unless you use your pumps defensively or 2 for 1 yourself with FoW. This doesn't take into account any other must-counter cards played, such as lock pieces or targeted disruption for the Treasure Cruises that your list is heavily depending on, so I don't really see you being able to fend off any reasonable form of early aggression.

There's also no reason to be running so many delve cards. Even the greediest delve decks in the format only play 4 copies of Treasure Cruise. Coupling that with 4 copies of Become Immense is far too taxing on your resources, you're going to lose a lot of games with un-castable delve cards sitting in your hand.


What do you run in side ? What's the classic configuration ?
Look at some old Tom Ross sideboards for ideas. I'd strongly recommend cutting the faerie macabres, they just don't do enough for the slots they take up. Seal of primordium seems like a strange choice, it's a sorcery speed naturalize that your opponents can play around. In a field full of brainstorms, telegraphing plays is really weak, as it lets your opponent shuffle away irrelevant cards in favor of stronger options. Envelop is also strange, especially considering your list runs no spell pierces, which are just as reliable in the early game and can hit a far wider range of targets.


The Beb/hydroblast are really worth ? I mean they basically counter one removal for our creature ?
They also trade out Sneak Attacks, Blood Moon permanents, Monastery Swiftspears, and opposing Red Blasts. Yes, they're most often one for ones, but BEB and Hydroblast counter very high priority targets. People have been playing upwards of 3-4 copies to fight U/R Delver and Jeskai Stoneblade/Combo heavy metas, it's always just a meta call.

adrieng
12-22-2014, 06:39 AM
Yeah the side is a mess, though I think envelop is better against combo than spell pierce (show and tell Infernal Tutor Natural Order mostly) where they can play around your pierce, maybe I could play pierce maindeck in the Fow spot cause mental note and thought scour are instant.
Seal of primordium is better than naturalize, mostly against counterbalance if you resolve it you are fine by example same thing for trinisphere and you don't need to keep 1G open against jitte/batterskul.
I don't like nature's claim cause it doesn't answer chalice of the void.
The faerie macabre should be surgical. Did anyone tryied marrow shards ? For all these YP.deck and also death and taxes ?


TC can be casted on turn two. This list is closer to jeskai's ascendency list from sam black where he plays 8 thought scour and 6 delve spells and that has been awesome.
I haven't had problem to cast my delve spells.

Seven_six
12-22-2014, 09:57 AM
Has anyone tried some teferi's response in the side? Seems good with inkmoth and can do great against wasteland/port strategies for keeping inkmoth out of business....

And then it helps refill your hand!

Jesture
12-22-2014, 10:41 AM
Has anyone tried some teferi's response in the side? Seems good with inkmoth and can do great against wasteland/port strategies for keeping inkmoth out of business....

And then it helps refill your hand!

Did some testing with it after I saw the 12post guy play it at an SCG open. It seemed okay, but more often than not it just ended up as a dead card in hand. It just felt like too much setup for something that didn't happen often enough. If you're expecting a meta full of Lands or Death and Taxes though, it might be worth a slot or two in the sideboard just for kicks and giggles. Outside of that, you're better off playing more well-rounded answers in your leftover slots.

bhsman
12-22-2014, 05:52 PM
Plus, mana could be tight enough that using Spell Pierce might be better (even without the inability to draw two cards off of it).

poxy14
12-27-2014, 09:36 AM
if u worry bout wastes/ports...just include pithing needles in ur sb...crop rots also works well vs land destruction...needles also stop multiples annoying things like jittes/grims/lotv/mazes...

Jesture
12-27-2014, 08:15 PM
Had a chance to sling some paper magic with pretty experienced legacy players while on vacation. Was a hell of an experience, and many thanks to everyone who showed up. One matchup I had a lot of trouble with was T.E.S., which isn´t a favorable one by any means, but it got me thinking about sideboard strategies, and how there are some pretty regular patterns that always show up in my postboard. At one point, I switched decks with one of the storm players. In addition to some of the slower spells, he boarded out 4x copies of Noble Hiearch, something that had never even crossed my mind as Hierarch is always heralded as such a key part of the deck. As legacy players, we do a lot of sideboarding to a point that it can just become habit. While its good to have a plan going into any game 2 or 3, this sort of routine also stagnates development as a player, ultimately hurting us more than the matchup familiarity that comes with it. Insert PSA: Remind folks to keep an open mind about sideboard and sideboarding options.

Edit: Accidentally left out PSA. Don't feel like putting one in, I think you guys get the idea.

Bed Decks Palyer
12-27-2014, 08:39 PM
Had a chance to sling some paper magic with pretty experienced legacy players while on vacation. Was a hell of an experience, and many thanks to everyone who showed up. One matchup I had a lot of trouble with was T.E.S., which isn´t a favorable one by any means, but it got me thinking about sideboard strategies, and how there are some pretty regular patterns that always show up in my postboard. At one point, I switched decks with one of the storm players. In addition to some of the slower spells, he boarded out 4x copies of Noble Hiearch, something that had never even crossed my mind as Hierarch is always heralded as such a key part of the deck. As legacy players, we do a lot of sideboarding to a point that it can just become habit. While its good to have a plan going into any game 2 or 3, this sort of routine also stagnates development as a player, ultimately hurting us more than the matchup familiarity that comes with it. Insert PSA: Remind folks to keep an open mind about sideboard and sideboarding options.

Ok, but you need to finish the story: what was the reason to cut NH, what he brought in, did he won? :smile:

datanaga
12-29-2014, 06:11 AM
I have never played TES matchup, but ANT and imho it was pretty easy with similar SB strategy.
Never side out nobles vs storm, you need free mana while casting/activating creatures.

SB like:
out: 2x blighted agent, 1x wasteland, 4x vines of wastwood
in: 2x pierce, 2x surgical, 1x submerge (vs xantic swarm), 1x bojuka bog, 1x force of will

Jesture
12-30-2014, 10:44 AM
Ok, but you need to finish the story: what was the reason to cut NH, what he brought in, did he won? :smile:

Think it was something like... cut 4x Hierarchs and 3x Inkmoths for 3x Hydroblast, 2x FoW, 1x Crop Rotation and 1x Piracy Charm. Matchup still went poorly for infect, something like 4-2 for T.E.S., but I feel that's an issue of him having little experience with the deck moreso than his sideboard choices costing him the game. I'm currently testing a postboard plan of -2x Hierarch and -2x Vines, as Hierarch is a slow t1 play and Vines is difficult to cast without the mana support of Hierarch. Will return with results. Someday.


I have never played TES matchup, but ANT and imho it was pretty easy with similar SB strategy.
Never side out nobles vs storm, you need free mana while casting/activating creatures.

SB like:
out: 2x blighted agent, 1x wasteland, 4x vines of wastwood
in: 2x pierce, 2x surgical, 1x submerge (vs xantic swarm), 1x bojuka bog, 1x force of will

Would like to take this time to remind everyone playing Legacy that ANT and T.E.S. are very different decks. I'll be the first to say that my experience with ANT is minimal compared to my experience with T.E.S. (my brother plays T.E.S. almost exclusively, we jam a lot of games when we're bored), so I don't have much to comment on in the way of datanaga's strategy. That said, for anyone else reading this form PLEASE do not treat these two decks as a singular entity. ANT is a slower deck that sets up a turn 2-4 Past in Flames or natural Tendrils spell chain with the aid of discard spells and Cabal Rituals (these are important because they help the deck overpower soft counters). Despite the namesake of the deck, the deck does not regularly kill with Ad Nauseum, as its less reliable and more conditional than Past in Flames. T.E.S. is without a doubt the more explosive of the two, preferring to play more recklessly and often opting to combo off during the first or second turn with less knowledge of the opponents hand. T.E.S. also opts for an Empty the Warrens kill more often than ANT, but also has the option of falling back on Ad Nauseum against decks that don't pressure life total (like ours!)

With all of that in mind...

Your sideboard for ANT can afford to play a longer game (long being relative in the scheme of Legacy as 3 or 4 turns), but T.E.S. threatens a turn one kill and also has the option of an Empty the Warrens line if 10 storm isn't a feasible option. Do not side out Blighted Agents, as they're an easy workaround to goblin tokens. Inkmoths (3x) do come out though, as they're just a tad too slow to have an impact on the game. Cutting a copy or two of Vines is okay, as its the slowest of your pump spells and the hexproof function has little to no utility against any variety of Tendrils storm deck. That said, you're still looking to end games as soon as possible against combo, and leaving pump spells in the deck is a good way to make that happen. I'm on the fence about siding out Crop Rotation, but I've recently opted towards leaving it in to punish greedy keeps with Wasteland. It's also gotten considerably better with the addition of delve cards, though I've started taking those out postboard against storm as they're often too slow to matter.

Basedx
12-31-2014, 12:58 PM
Hi guys, played a local 7 man event last night and wanted to share a bit of a small tournament report with you guys. I'm running Tom Ross's GP list. Went 4-0 with a top 2 split as 2 people dropped after round 2. The lists were UWR Stoneblade, UWR Delver, UR Landstill, Lands, Manaless Dredge, Burn, and me piloting Infect.

Round 1 | Burn | 2-1
This was fairly straightforward, first game i lost to him just being too fast and me keeping a slower hand. I sided in a lot of counter magic and took out the clunkier/slower elements such as the Git Probes and at least 1 Crop Rotation. Hydroblasts really helped me seal games 2 and 3, as i won the last game against double fireblast with force and hydroblast. Also won game 2 after wasting his Volcanic Island while he had 2 Treasure Cruises in hand.

Round 2 | Manaless Dredge | 2-1
Game 1 manaless dredge just did everything its supposed to and represented lethal by turn 3, while it ripped my hand apart. Sided in some counter magic and the Bojuka Bog for the Crop Rotation package. He had a weird mana sideboard plan, although it didnt manage to make a difference. Game 2, his dredges were pretty bad while i managed to trample over with berserk for the win on turn 3 i believe. Game 3 A well timed Bojuka Bog stopped him from really getting his engine running at all, and it was a clean turn 3 win again. I believe he was running the combo kill sideboard and not mainboard.

Round 3 | UWR Delver | 2-0
Game 1 he had an moderately slow hand, and the only threat he managed to land was a True Name while i amassed enough threats to swing through for lethal with some pump and force backup for his force. Game 2 he kept a 5 card hand that i won on turn 2 with a mistake on his part. I swung and he bolted first, which let me Invigorate, force his force, and berserk for the win. I believe he was really tilted and thats why he was aggressive on his use of the bolt.

Round 4 | Lands | 2-1
Game 1, lands did its thing and eventually waste locked me while killing all of my threats with Punishing Fire. Game 2 i won, although extremely punting. I had the win extremely early on, but i was to nervous and didnt see the line of play and was thinking he had mana open for punishing fire when he didnt, read cards boys. I managed to win game 2 through a Tabernacle, a Maze of Ith, and Punishing Fire while he was constrained on mana by nickle and diming him while forcing 2 of his crop rotations. Game 3 he kept a bad hand, i managed to Bojuka bog him on turn 3 with a Loam in the yard and swung for lethal next turn while he didn't have much going on.

Would have played Delver again in top 2, but we split 35/35 credit as the event was a 10 dollar buy in.

Jesture
01-02-2015, 02:29 PM
Out of curiosity, was this RUG lands or Christmas lands? Additionally, what'd you sideboard for the matchup games 2 and 3? I'm always torn on the proper number of counterspells to leave in vs lands, as soft counters are pretty awful, but FoW's sometimes don't feel like enough.

A late Happy New Year to everyone playing Infect. Give your New Year's resolutions split second so they're guaranteed to resolve =)

Edited for holiday greeting.

Basedx
01-08-2015, 03:22 PM
Out of curiosity, was this RUG lands or Christmas lands? Additionally, what'd you sideboard for the matchup games 2 and 3? I'm always torn on the proper number of counterspells to leave in vs lands, as soft counters are pretty awful, but FoW's sometimes don't feel like enough.

A late Happy New Year to everyone playing Infect. Give your New Year's resolutions split second so they're guaranteed to resolve =)

Edited for holiday greeting.

I'm pretty sure it was straight R/G Lands, as i can't really remember seeing any blue present. Trying to remember correctly i think i brought in more countermagic, an extra threat, another Wasteland, and a Sylvan Library. It's been a while since the tournament so i can't really remember exacts. Probably the best match of the entire thing, i really had to tip toe around Maze of Ith the entire time.

Tetsuo84
01-12-2015, 01:51 AM
Report From 10.01.2015

Legacy Event in Hong Kong 15 People

Vs MUD 2-1

Game one was quick kill on turn 3 with blighted agent + Noble & two invigorate
Game two, a platinum angel blocked me and put him at 22 poison didn't draw any artefact blow or berserk to let me win
Game three quick kill as turn one with FOW daze back up


Vs BladeControl 2-0

game one and two : very quick game with both times kill by nexus and protect with Vine

Vs Ant 0-2

Forgot to bring my fluster storm in SB.
Could get the win on second game with my noble + Become immense + berserk but he AD my hierarch then
no creatures for 4 5 turns...

Vs DnT 1-2

game one he start and just jitte my creatures out and win
game two i started and killed him turn 5 with time by time poison
game three got killed by 2 flicker wisp and just put him at 4 poison

Well i finish 6th with a 2-2 but i think i did some misplay and still learn how to play perfectly this deck.

Seven_six
01-14-2015, 08:05 PM
Went 4-1 last night (with a 1st place win thanks to breakers)
Pretty stock list.

Creatures:
4 noble
4 glistener
4 blighted

Spells:
4 brainstorm
4 invigorate
3 spell pierce
3 gitaxian probe
2 FoW
3 vines of vastwood
2 crop rot
3 daze
2 berserk
1 treasure cruise
1 become immense

Lands:
4 tropical island
2 forest
4 misty
4 windswept
1 wasteland
1 pendelhaven
4 inkmoth

SB:
1 sylvan
1 natures claim
2 krosan
1 karakas
1 bojuka
2 fow
2 flusterstorm
2 hydroblast
1 mizzium skin
1 engineered explosives
1 relic of progenitus

Tbh I can't remember the games so much but
Played against:
Shardless bug win
Jund win
Jeskai stone blade 0-2
Goblins win
Miracles 2-0
This match I remember
G1: t1 glistene, t2 3xi invigorate with daze or pierce backup
G2: he's stuck on - plains and an island - a t2 sylvan is so nice - I get there with inkmoths and nobles - survive a terminus with a daze

I do rember one game was a t2 invig/zerk I think against jund.

Anyways sorry I don't remember more I will take more notes.

Tetsuo84
01-19-2015, 09:05 PM
TC BANNED so less forked bolt for US ...

Good to see meta is back to where it was pre TC!

What do u guys think?

Jesture
01-20-2015, 12:35 PM
Definitely a step in the right direction, infect has plenty of opportunity to outplay opposing fair decks, so I feel like a shift back to RUG, BUG, and UWR delver are ultimately where we want to be. UR delver was definitely a force to be reckoned with, but I'm more glad to see the various jeskai ascendancy brews losing their place in the meta, as they felt like UR delver with more countermagic and a combo based finish.

I'll probably look to throw a one of ponder back into the 75, as I was formerly playing a TC singleton in the main. That said, ponder never felt all that impactful to begin with, so I'll probably spend some time seeing if we can find a better replacement. In particular, I think a one of dig through time might be strong if not too clunky. Catching opponents off guard with end of turn card advantage and selection seems incredibly strong, especially in a deck like ours that can pull out huge leads or even win outright from slightly favorable game states.

Seven_six
01-21-2015, 09:54 AM
Maybe time for dryad arbor to com back in? If we adopt dig through time maybe a single Island will be necessary?

I guess we need to wait and see what decks become popular.

Neffy
01-21-2015, 12:33 PM
I took infect to a 20-30 man tournament yesterday.

Standard list but with the ponder instead of the TC. I am a huge fan of become immense and i am very close at running 2 (cutting the 1-off ponder). That way, not drawing blue mana ist not as dangerous (i lost a game on that yesterday),

2-0 vs. D&T (before his jitte got active)
2-1 vs. TA (g3 he nukes my 2 noble and 2 infect dudes with Golgari Charm, so I only have lands. He is on 9 infect and with tarmo, and DRS. No cards in hands. I draw BS and find crop rotation and when he draws delver and plays it, I EOT find the nexus and takes him out.) Love how the deck can kill from nowhere!
2-0 vs. UWr delver
1-2 vs. MUD (turn before kill he goes chalice 1 so my two vines are useless)
0-2 vs. omnishow. i hate that deck so much...
1-2 vs. D&T. I probably misplay but port and waste is difficult.

I think that Become Immense is underrated and as noone is bringing GY hate for us (especially now that TC is out) it could be justified to bring 2 IMO.

EDIT: What do you think about Wild Defiance in this deck? Its very useful against bolts, but 3CMC is quite costy.

Tetsuo84
01-21-2015, 10:59 PM
Well yes i think the treasure Cruise spot will be replaced by become immense! I bought 4 playset of foil ones... Japanese one playset.
To me i think we need to play more basics because Shardless and RuG will be back so wasteland also. And our mana is very fragile.
I think the deck will be very good Vs Miracles and Shardless meta.
Sideboard has to be changed also to less BEB and HydroBlast.

Saw a list online playing 4 fluster storm main... Ideas? to share i will change my new list this week end and will let u know guys.

I also PIMP my deck i will take a picture of it.... It's SHINY!

Clown of Tresserhorn
01-21-2015, 11:26 PM
I played this to a 3-0-2 (two intentional IDs) fnm tourney last week (there wasa top 8, but we split). 27 people.

List:

4 Inkmoth
1 Wasteland
2 Pendelhaven
8 Fetch
4 Trop
1 Forest

4 Hierarch
4 Glistener Elf
4 Agent

4 Brainstorm
3 Probe

4 Daze
3 Force
2 Spell Pierce

4 Invigorate
3 Vines
2 Become Immense
2 Berserk

1 Crop rotation

SB: The usual.

I had very favorable matchups: I played miracles round 1, and storm rounds 2 and 3.

I freaking love the maindeck. Having played Ross's invitation build, and also the stifle build, I can say that for the Colorado meta, the stifle build was pure shit. Also, I found that 9 counters was the sweet spot. The only questionable slots are the probes (which I still love, since they pitch to Force) and vines. However, with cruise banned, I'm expecting an uptick in abrupt decay, which makes vines more valuable.

As for flusterstorm, I don't think it's need game 1. You're usually fast enough that spell pierce (and even daze) are basically hard counters. That spell pierce counters spells like jace, top, etc. does occasionally pop up.

Tetsuo84
01-22-2015, 12:00 AM
What do you put in SB?

M+1
01-22-2015, 05:45 AM
I have been wondering about Ponder, and why it doesn't seem like a particularly strong option for Infect. The times I have tested with it, I often found myself wanting only 1 of the three cards. When I have a shuffle effect that is obsiously fine. But I was thinking about Preordain, and how it might actually be better here. Maybe even something like Impulse, since instants are superior, and I often end my turns with an untapped Inkmoth anyway.
What do you think?

Tetsuo84
01-22-2015, 06:28 AM
im not fan of ponder in our deck now from my list i will just replace one of TV with one more become immense...
i have a list similar to the one of Clown of Tresserhorn.

SB :

2 flusterstorm
1 crop rotation
1 karakas
1 FOW
1 BEB
1 HydroB
2 Krosan G
1 Nature's claim
1 Spellskite
1 Null Rod
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Chill

Tetsuo84
01-22-2015, 06:32 AM
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/538/dwaqvf.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/540/ILP4Ek.jpg

Neffy
01-22-2015, 09:09 AM
Nice with pics in the thread!'

Regarding Impulse i dont think we have the mana for a 2CMC instant like that. I do however like your thought on preordain. Ponder however gives a shuffle and looks at four cards.. and-i-love-the-shuffle.

@Clown: Our lists are identifical except for the 4th Daze which in my deck is a 2nd Crop. Dont you miss it? It is such a nice card as it means a certain (if not countered) infect dude.
I do miss the 4 daze tho..

EDIT: oh, and i only run 1 pendelhaven. Dont miss another.

Jesture
01-22-2015, 10:49 AM
Going to a local legacy tournament tonight, I'll probably try replacing the ponder with a dig through time. Will post back with results.

My biggest problem with ponder was that it meant using mana during the main phase, something that can be problematic given how little mana the deck operates on. Dig lets us look at 7 and grab two, an incredibly strong effect that is only more potent post board when we bring in 1-2 copies of certain answers cards.

bhsman
01-22-2015, 02:40 PM
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/538/dwaqvf.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/540/ILP4Ek.jpg

Chill seems like an intriguing SB one-of; how has it worked for and what do you tend to bring it in against? Burn?

Clown of Tresserhorn
01-22-2015, 06:59 PM
My SB:

1 Crop rotation
1 Force of Will
2 Submerge
2 Krosan Grip
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka bog
1 Tower of the Magistrate
2 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Dismember

As for Daze, I'll just go ahead and say it...this is the best daze deck I've ever played. If I could run 8 I would.

Tetsuo84
01-22-2015, 08:20 PM
Well,

SB is very meta call. As i live in HK we have in our 20 players legacy event :

Burn often
MUD 2/3 decks
DnT 2/3 decks
and UR UWR delver shell
1 Lands (punishing fire)
1/2 JUND (punishing fire)

and sometimes goblin so i like the chill inside my SB with the Spellskite but i should do 2 spells kite in next event.

I got very lucky on my buying also:

Bought those meridian mask foil nap invigorate for a very reasonable price.

Next buy will be : 4 Inkmoth Nexus foil > 4 Spell Pierce Foil

poxy14
01-22-2015, 11:49 PM
before TC got banned, ive had success with this config...

1 groundswell (to battle bolts, forked bolts as it is handy than become immense)
3 probes/1 treasure cruise/1become immense
4 fows/3dazes/1pierce/2crop rotations (easily may fav card here as it won me tons of games by eot inkmoth ftw!)
9 fetches/3 trops only

now, im expecting black to be back, i shld say bug variants, reanimators, junds
2 become immense (dodges cotv 1 and cbtop locks)
3 probes 1 ponder (shuffle effect is very impt in our deck)
3 fows/3 dazes/2 pierces (to counter early discards without losing CA from fows)
8 fetches/4 trops/2 crop rotations.... wasteland.dec will be on the rise once again.

ORDAL
01-23-2015, 04:13 PM
HI, i play infect from september 2014, and i write only now because i want test a lot a deck before to talk about it.
Here There are the lists of my results on local tournaments around to 25 to 60 players.

14/09/14 http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14690&iddeck=108642 27 players

19/10/14 http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15006&iddeck=111227 26 players

16/11/14 http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15281&iddeck=113466 31 players

28/12/14 http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15759&iddeck=117354 60 players

I missed the top in 3 events, one in local tournament, and another 2 in the big events (Ovino 400 players and another 200 players) In the first big event lose from reanimator and jund and in the second lose the first turn from something like 4cloam and second turn D&T.

How can you see guys, i had tested a lot of different versions and im feel good with the version with white splash. Maybe first is for the my meta country and second because i love StP in the sideboard. Really i prefer all life StP to submerge. StP can be side vs all deck and a removal with 1 wituout drawback is insane. Plus i want white for RiP.
Another personal meta choice is the sylvan library maindeck. I had always prefer DtT to Tc for infect.
Before of TC ban i was running 2 beb in side and 1 Wild defiance, Now i cut 1 beb for misdi and i have 1 slot from wild.
I write for some tips, in february i ll play at another big tournament and i feel the meta post tc ban is so good again for our infect, and this time i dont wanna miss the top 8.
This is the list:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/pdErH3.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/537/Dr7Sj7.jpg

Miss 1 card in side help me ^^

Tetsuo84
01-23-2015, 08:10 PM
well NICE NICE Your deck looks very nice !

For SB i will put Null Rod or Flusterstorm

Null Rod good VS Miracles or DnT
Flusterstorm VS Combo

Bosaapje
01-26-2015, 02:37 PM
Hi everyone,

I've started playing with Infect a while ago because I could borrow it from a friend for a tournament. Since then I've fallen in love with the deck. I'm now preparing for GP Lille in June 2015 and I want to go with a deck that can handle most other decks instead of a list which is optimized for my local scene. I've been playing this list lately:


Lands 19
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
1 Forest
2 Pendelhaven
1 Wasteland

Creatures 12
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent

Spells 29
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Berserk
4 Invigorate
1 Apostle's Blessing
1 Become Immense

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Ponder
1 Crop Rotation
2 Gitaxian Probe

Sideboard
1 Sylvan Library
1 Force of Will
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Submerge
2 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Karakas
2 Spell Pierce
2 Necropede
1 Hydroblast


What do you guys think of this list? Is this a good starting point or would you add other cards/colours? I'm still a fairly new Infect player so I based my list on Tom Ross' list and now with Cruise out of the format I won't be adding Piracy Charms because I think that they won't do enough. Anyway, I would be very grateful if someone could help me build a good list.

Jesture
01-26-2015, 05:25 PM
Hi everyone,

I've started playing with Infect a while ago because I could borrow it from a friend for a tournament. Since then I've fallen in love with the deck. I'm now preparing for GP Lille in June 2015 and I want to go with a deck that can handle most other decks instead of a list which is optimized for my local scene. I've been playing this list lately:


Lands 19
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
1 Forest
2 Pendelhaven
1 Wasteland

Creatures 12
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent

Spells 29
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Berserk
4 Invigorate
1 Apostle's Blessing
1 Become Immense

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Ponder
1 Crop Rotation
2 Gitaxian Probe

Sideboard
1 Sylvan Library
1 Force of Will
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Submerge
2 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Karakas
2 Spell Pierce
2 Necropede
1 Hydroblast


What do you guys think of this list? Is this a good starting point or would you add other cards/colours? I'm still a fairly new Infect player so I based my list on Tom Ross' list and now with Cruise out of the format I won't be adding Piracy Charms because I think that they won't do enough. Anyway, I would be very grateful if someone could help me build a good list.

Your maindeck looks fine, though I'd recommend finding that 4th trop whenever you get the chance. If not, consider running an additional fetch, as 19 lands feels low and it'll help with the delve on become immense.

The sideboard seems a little bit dated to me. In particular, I think viridian corruptor without gsz is weak, especially with 2 Krosan grip and a nature's claim doing what he's there to do, only better. I'd probably replace him with an extra copy of crop rotation, as there are some matchups where you absolutely must find bog or karakas in order to win.

What matchups are you expecting to see a lot of? Try and get a better idea of what the popular decks will be, then prepare your sideboard accordingly. As it is, there are a lot of cards that seem meta specific (necropede, hydroblast) that I don't think will be coming in for g2 and g3 except in very specific circumstances.

Edit: Auto correct typo, -2 Korean Grip, +2 Krosan Grip

Bosaapje
01-26-2015, 06:22 PM
Your maindeck looks fine, though I'd recommend finding that 4th trop whenever you get the chance. If not, consider running an additional fetch, as 19 lands feels low and it'll help with the delve on Become Immense.

I have the 4th Trop but I don't play it because I play a Forest in that spot. Do you think I need to add a 20th land or swapping the Forest with the Trop? 19 Lands is a bit low, but I don't know what to remove mainboard. Everything seems solid and necessary.


The sideboard seems a little bit dated to me. In particular, I think viridian corruptor without gsz is weak, especially with 2 Krosan Grip and a Nature's Claim doing what he's there to do, only better. I'd probably replace him with an extra copy of Crop Rotation, as there are some matchups where you absolutely must find bog or Karakas in order to win.

What matchups are you expecting to see a lot of? Try and get a better idea of what the popular decks will be, then prepare your sideboard accordingly. As it is, there are a lot of cards that seem meta specific (Necropede, Hydroblast) that I don't think will be coming in for g2 and g3 except in very specific circumstances.


I've got no idea which matchups I will encounter. It's a GP so it's gonna be big and the field is going to be diverse. I can cut the Corrupter because it's, just as you said, a bit much and useless without GSZ. Isn't Grafdigger's Cage better than the extra Rotation? Don't get me wrong, Bogging someone is really good but it's only once where Cage stays on the field. It's a bit worse against Sneaky Show without the second Crop Rotation but if they Emrakul me I can only bounce it once and I don't think that it's worth the second Crop Rotation. Maybe I'm really wrong here and if I am, please say so.

What would you recommend to play in the sideboard if you would go to a GP?

Tetsuo84
01-26-2015, 08:41 PM
Well META has change because of the Ban of Treasure Cruise.

First, Tournament of SCG put BUG MIRACLES LANDS in the top Chart.

Second, Watch MTGO from 29/01/2015 cause the Ban List will be updated on it so you can have an idea of what people playing.

Third, French Meta is not same / same as US META : expect a lot of Miracles, BUGz..

Hope it can help.

Jesture
01-26-2015, 10:46 PM
I have the 4th Trop but I don't play it because I play a Forest in that spot. Do you think I need to add a 20th land or swapping the Forest with the Trop? 19 Lands is a bit low, but I don't know what to remove mainboard. Everything seems solid and necessary.

Typical configuration is 8-9 fetches, 4 trops, 1 forest, 1 wasteland, 4 inkmoths, 1-2 pendelhaven. As swiftspears leave the formats and goyfs come in, pendelhaven is a little less useful so you could consider cutting one or just moving it to board.


I've got no idea which matchups I will encounter. It's a GP so it's gonna be big and the field is going to be diverse. I can cut the Corrupter because it's, just as you said, a bit much and useless without GSZ. Isn't Grafdigger's Cage better than the extra Rotation? Don't get me wrong, Bogging someone is really good but it's only once where Cage stays on the field. It's a bit worse against Sneaky Show without the second Crop Rotation but if they Emrakul me I can only bounce it once and I don't think that it's worth the second Crop Rotation. Maybe I'm really wrong here and if I am, please say so.

What would you recommend to play in the sideboard if you would go to a GP?

Cage is better in certain regards, but it's not quite as consistent without running multiple copies. The singleton Bog can be tutored with either Crop Rotation, and instant speed graveyard removal leads to some pretty fantastic blowouts against Past in Flames, Dredge, or Reanimator. Because Crop Rotation has other targets, you're usually just better off playing 1x Bog 2x Crop Rotation rather than 3x Grafdigger's Cage.

If you're expecting Lands, Miracles, and BUG as Tatsuo said, I'd say you're in reasonably good shape. Lands is a great example of where the second crop rotation would absolutely come in. Being able to Bog away Loams or Karakas a Marit Lage token gives you a lot more room to navigate to lethal. Some people also opt to include a second Wasteland in the side for matchups like this, but I don't think land destruction is where you want to be against a loam deck, especially with cards like Exploration to easily offset the tempo advantage you could otherwise gain from Wasteland.

Miracles is pretty straight forward. Just play patiently and don't get blown out by over extending. Even when you're taking your time, you can still often land a kill before they have time to set up their control pieces.

I think you should consider moving a FoW from the main into the side, as they tend to be pretty awful against fair decks. I've been using a Divert instead of a 4th pierce, but if you don't have one playing an extra Spell Pierce in the main should be fine as well. Also consider cutting Apostle's Blessing for Piracy Charm. Though Charm isn't quite as strong for defending creatures, it's multiple modes means it's less likely to sit in your hand as a dead card, while Apostle's often turns into a mini-fog if you're already behind.

Bosaapje
01-27-2015, 08:35 AM
Typical configuration is 8-9 fetches, 4 trops, 1 forest, 1 wasteland, 4 inkmoths, 1-2 Pendelhaven. As swiftspears leave the formats and goyfs come in, Pendelhaven is a little less useful so you could consider cutting one or just moving it to board.

I'll switch the 4th Trop for the Pendelhaven. I also will fit in a 9th fetch because I want to run 20 lands, it's possible to run 2 FoW's maindeck and create a spot for an extra land.


Cage is better in certain regards, but it's not quite as consistent without running multiple copies. The singleton Bog can be tutored with either Crop Rotation, and instant speed graveyard removal leads to some pretty fantastic blowouts against Past in Flames, Dredge, or Reanimator. Because Crop Rotation has other targets, you're usually just better off playing 1x Bog 2x Crop Rotation rather than 3x Grafdigger's Cage.

If you're expecting Lands, Miracles, and BUG as Tatsuo said, I'd say you're in reasonably good shape. Lands is a great example of where the second Crop Rotation would absolutely come in. Being able to Bog away Loams or Karakas a Marit Lage token gives you a lot more room to navigate to lethal. Some people also opt to include a second Wasteland in the side for matchups like this, but I don't think land destruction is where you want to be against a loam deck, especially with cards like Exploration to easily offset the tempo advantage you could otherwise gain from Wasteland.

You're right with this, I'll just play a second Crop Rotation in the sideboard for the GY-based matchups. Is it also worth siding in against the GY-based decks with FoW like Reanimator? Because you could race them and try to beat them that way. If they counter a Rotation and you can't fight back you're in a lot of trouble. Missing a land and getting a fatty into play sounds like a bad boardstate for us.



I think you should consider moving a FoW from the main into the side, as they tend to be pretty awful against fair decks. I've been using a Divert instead of a 4th pierce, but if you don't have one playing an extra Spell Pierce in the main should be fine as well. Also consider cutting Apostle's Blessing for Piracy Charm. Though Charm isn't quite as strong for defending creatures, it's multiple modes means it's less likely to sit in your hand as a dead card, while Apostle's often turns into a mini-fog if you're already behind.

So -1 FoW and +1 land then? What would you cut from the sideboard to add the FoW and Crop Rotation? I'm going to cut the Viridian Corrupter, so that would be one spot but the second? My current sideboard is:

1 Sylvan Library
1 Force of Will
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Submerge
2 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Karakas
2 Spell Pierce
2 Necropede
1 Hydroblast

Oh and is Divert better than Misdirection? Misdirection is card disadvantage but it's free and it's still good late game and you can't say that about Divert. Also the reason that I run Blessing is that it makes my creatures unblockable. I've had several situations where I could win if I had a trampler/unblockable guy but the opponent had flying dudes (Miracles), big dudes (Goyfs) or a nasty flying dude (Baleful Strix). This is why I run a one off. It's also extra protection, only downside is that it doesn't pump my guys. Piracy is good but his role in the game is a bit different than Blessing's. Do you think the card is better in the long run?

Jesture
01-27-2015, 08:03 PM
You're right with this, I'll just play a second Crop Rotation in the sideboard for the GY-based matchups. Is it also worth siding in against the GY-based decks with FoW like Reanimator? Because you could race them and try to beat them that way. If they counter a Rotation and you can't fight back you're in a lot of trouble. Missing a land and getting a fatty into play sounds like a bad boardstate for us.

You still want the second Crop rotation against graveyard matchups. Crop Rotation is negative card advantage on its own, but the versatility it brings to the table is generally a huge help in winning games. Plus, if they have FoW backup and go for the Reanimate, you're probably dead on the spot as it is. Better to have the Crop Rotation and make them have the counter back-up than be in a position where you don't have Crop Rotation and lose because of it.


So -1 FoW and +1 land then? What would you cut from the sideboard to add the FoW and Crop Rotation? I'm going to cut the Viridian Corrupter, so that would be one spot but the second? My current sideboard is:

1 Sylvan Library
1 Force of Will
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Submerge
2 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Karakas
2 Spell Pierce
2 Necropede
1 Hydroblast

I'd consider cutting Hydroblast, as the meta's shifting back to where it was pre-Cruise. Burn is probably the deck which Hydroblast is best against, and it's already a favorable match-up for Infect.


Oh and is Divert better than Misdirection? Misdirection is card disadvantage but it's free and it's still good late game and you can't say that about Divert. Also the reason that I run Blessing is that it makes my creatures unblockable. I've had several situations where I could win if I had a trampler/unblockable guy but the opponent had flying dudes (Miracles), big dudes (Goyfs) or a nasty flying dude (Baleful Strix). This is why I run a one off. It's also extra protection, only downside is that it doesn't pump my guys. Piracy is good but his role in the game is a bit different than Blessing's. Do you think the card is better in the long run?

Divert's mostly a meta call, I've been playing it in anticipation of BUG decks making their way back into the meta. Between Abrupt Decay and Hymn to Tourach, you have several great targets to Divert, plus the added caveat of diverting counterspells back onto themselves as a pseudo Spell Pierce. I'd stay away from Misdirection for the same reasons you don't want too many maindeck FoW's, the card disadvantage can really rack up and hurt you over time.

Piracy Charm has a mode that gives Islandwalk to a creature. As most of the decks you'll be playing against have some blue in them, I'd say the extra modes on Piracy Charm will help you win more often than the corner cases where you can steal a win against non-blue decks with Apostle's Blessing.

MiniVan_3
01-29-2015, 01:24 AM
Hey guys, I've been playing this deck for about a month now. I won a SCG IQ with it a few weeks back, so now I'm planning on taking it to SCG Indy this weekend.
I've put in a lot of time testing this week, and I keep running into one problem over and over again. I have an extremely difficult time beating Shardless.
It seems like no matter what I do or try, they just keep drawing exactly what they need and grinding me out. So, I decided to try out the white splash with Rest in Peace in the board, but it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference. Shardless is the only thing I'm having any trouble with whatsoever, I've been beating everything else pretty consistently. What are some things I can do to improve the match up? How does everyone else sideboard against it? Thanks in advance for any advice, I really appreciate it!

ORDAL
01-29-2015, 03:39 PM
Hey guys, I've been playing this deck for about a month now. I won a SCG IQ with it a few weeks back, so now I'm planning on taking it to SCG Indy this weekend.
I've put in a lot of time testing this week, and I keep running into one problem over and over again. I have an extremely difficult time beating Shardless.
It seems like no matter what I do or try, they just keep drawing exactly what they need and grinding me out. So, I decided to try out the white splash with Rest in Peace in the board, but it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference. Shardless is the only thing I'm having any trouble with whatsoever, I've been beating everything else pretty consistently. What are some things I can do to improve the match up? How does everyone else sideboard against it? Thanks in advance for any advice, I really appreciate it!

Hi Bro, cogratulation for SCG IQ. I think Shardless is a good matchup for us because we are simply too much fast for him, and inkmoth shine in this matchup. Bug delver imho is more difficult and boring. I play the list posted up in this thread with white splash and maybe help a little (Rip). Rip btw is also very good vs Jund and their Punishing recrution so i suggest to try 2x in side.

Bosaapje
01-29-2015, 06:37 PM
Piracy Charm has a mode that gives Islandwalk to a creature. As most of the decks you'll be playing against have some blue in them, I'd say the extra modes on Piracy Charm will help you win more often than the corner cases where you can steal a win against non-blue decks with Apostle's Blessing.

Totally forget the islandwalk, I'll play it over Apostle's Blessing. Based on all the advise that I got here I made a new list.

Lands20
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Tropical Island
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Forest
1 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Pendelhaven

[c]Creatures 12[/b]
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf

Spells 28
4 Invigorate
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Berserk
1 Become Immense
1 Piracy Charm

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Spell Pierce
2 Force of Will
1 Ponder
1 Crop Rotation

Sideboard

1 Sylvan Library
2 Force of Will
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Submerge
2 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
1 Crop Rotation
1 Karakas
1 Spell Pierce
1 Divert
2 Necropede



Hi MiniVan_3! I never had any problems with Shardless, just keep the Baleful Strix of the table and be aggressive. What are you boarding against them?


Originally Posted by ORDAL

I play the list posted up in this thread with white splash and maybe help a little (Rip). Rip btw is also very good vs Jund and their Punishing recrution so i suggest to try 2x in side.

What do you think of splashing white for RiP and Plow? I've tried it and I liked it but is it something to play in a known meta or in an unknown? I think that having RiP instead of Crop Rotation > Bojuka Bog is important, it's a really good card against so many matchups.

Jesture
01-31-2015, 02:06 AM
What do you think of splashing white for RiP and Plow? I've tried it and I liked it but is it something to play in a known meta or in an unknown? I think that having RiP instead of Crop Rotation > Bojuka Bog is important, it's a really good card against so many matchups.

Splashing white is fine, but keep in mind that it makes dazes somewhat weaker in the deck. Rest in Peace is fantastic against decks such as Jund and Christmas Lands, but it's often just a turn too slow to matter against decks like Dredge and Reanimator. Swords to Plowshares is also a tempting option, but you're usually just better off playing cards that win you games, as opposed to cards that prevent you from losing. We're pretty fast as a deck to the point that we can win before most decks can establish any sort of soft lock. Sure you'll somtimes hit t1 Chalice or an early hate bear, but that's what counter magic is for. All in all, the options are cute but I feel U/G is just a more stable and equally strong list. Also, getting Massacred sucks.

Hey all, just played a weekly legacy event at my LGS last night. I was planning to do a write up, but I seem to have misplaced my notes. Until I find them, here's a decklist and some notes about my games:

12 Creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent

25 Instants
4 Invigorate
4 Vines of Vastwood
1 Become Immense
2 Berserk
2 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
1 Dig Through Time
1 Crop Rotation

3 Sorceries
3 Gitaxian Probe

20 Lands
1 Forest
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Pendelhaven
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wasteland

Sideboard
2 Force of Will
1 Crop Rotation
1 Karakas
2 Necropede
1 Sylvan Library
1 Piracy Charm
2 Submerge
2 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Divert

Matchups were RUG Delver, Food Chain, Mono Green Lands, and Miracles. I went 3-0 going into the final round, then lost in 3 to Miracles with Peacekeeper (that card is a beating!)

Some thoughts:

-There is very little reason not to be running at least 2 copies of Submerge. When sided in, this card is at worst a free bounce spell that generates tempo, and at best wins the game on the spot. It has the ability to
Stop a creature from attacking for a turn
Remove a blocker
Remove a problematic creature (think Grim Lavamancer)
Permanently remove a creature in response to a fetch land
Kill a token
Cause an opponent to use mana to redeploy threats (makes Daze and Spell Pierce better)
Deny a draw
and other various good stuff. Infect is a deck that exploits small windows of opportunity, and Submerge is a zero costed card which creates those windows perfectly.

-Divert is absurdly strong in the games it gets sided in. Round 1 I used it as a pseudo Spell Pierce, then another time to Stone Rain myself by directing a Stifle into a fetch land activation (I don't remember the details on this play, but I won the following turn). Round 2 it redirected an Abrupt Decay onto an opposing Food Chain, buying me another turn which I used to crack back for lethal. I'm still not entirely sold on its place in the deck, but with enough BUG decks and as just a one of in the sideboard, I don't see myself taking it out anytime soon.

-Dig Through Time seems just as strong, but I'm not certain of its place in the main deck. I didn't have any problems casting the card, but I feel a resurgence of mana denial (Stifle, Wasteland, Blood Moon) is imminent with the state of the given meta. That said, casting double blue Dig on our current mana base has not been difficult, as I had initially feared. As for power level, resolving an end of turn Dig Through Time just feels like winning. With a resolved threat on the board, and a relevant card or two in hand, scrying 7 then drawing two off the top will often give you the perfect blend of pump spells or counter magic to end the game the following turn. Dig also does a phenomenal job of finding sideboard answers in game 2 and 3. In two separate instances, I used a Dig Through Time to tutor up answers to threats that would have lost me the game (once for Crop Rotation into Wasteland on Glacial Chasm, another for Submerge on Marit Lage). I can guarantee that no other card would have won me those games (this is excluding the games I won after casting Dig Through Time that I felt were already in the bag.) For now, I don't see Ponder coming back into the deck as it doesn't dig as deep, and has to be cast at sorcery speed (something I feel this deck should avoid doing whenever possible.)

Edited for opinions on white splash

Julian23
01-31-2015, 02:35 AM
62 cards? I think you listed 2 Berserk twice.

Jesture
01-31-2015, 09:16 AM
Good catch, thanks!

Platinum_Emperion
02-02-2015, 06:44 AM
Has anyone tried Xantid Swarm? I feel like it would be really good in our deck.

Lejay
02-02-2015, 06:46 AM
Counters would still back up removals so it's not a good idea.

Platinum_Emperion
02-02-2015, 06:50 AM
Counters would still back up removals so it's not a good idea.

True, but it forces them to have actual removal instead of just counters. Plus it is another creature to beat down with that flies. I have had more than my share of noble kills because people focus too much on my infectors. Maybe they could take the spot of a G-probe or 2 g2

M+1
02-02-2015, 07:35 AM
I too have considered Xantid Swarm, mainly as a way to "force the issue" when attacking (preventing the end of turn StP or whatever).

However, attacking with Xantid plus a poison creature turns off Exalted.
And it is another 1 toughness creature that walks right into every 2-mana weapon of mass destruction there is (OK, not Rough/Tumble).

In my experience, Noble kills are very rare, but Xantid is a far better creature for attacking, so it might work.

I would be interested in your results if you test it.

Jesture
02-02-2015, 07:51 AM
Has anyone tried Xantid Swarm? I feel like it would be really good in our deck.

I don't like this at all. The purpose of Xantid Swarm is to force an additional counter or removal spell out of the opponent, but it does this in the attacker's step. While it means that the opponent has to fight over your threats a card down, it also means that we have to pick our fights before blocks are declared, ie. we absolutely need Berserk if we want to utilize Xantid Swarm. This is assuming we're not hoping to just chip our opponents up to 10 infect counters, in which case Xantid is also not very good as it has to attack every turn for several turns, leaving it vulnerable to blockers and turning off exalted in the process.

Bosaapje
02-02-2015, 02:46 PM
Has anyone tried Xantid Swarm? I feel like it would be really good in our deck.

I don't think that forcing the removal is a good idea. If they have removal you can counter it and if they've got counter back up you're at the same point where you were without a Swarm and you've switched off exalted/combat tricks. It's not like we're ANT without counters, we can prevent the opponent from playing stuff.


I just played a 40 man local invitational hosted by my LGS. You had to get a certain amount of points and if you had them, you were invited. I played 6 rounds, first 2 Legacy rounds, then 3 Modern and then again 1 Legacy. This was because the LGS organizes Modern and Legacy tournaments and you could get invited by playing either of those. I went 4-2 in total, with 3-0 in Legacy and 1-2 in Modern (played storm and the last time I practiced that was a year ago or maybe longer). I didn't make any notes so I'm not writing a report but I do know what I played against and how it went.

This was my decklist:

Lands 19

3 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
1 Wasteland

Creatures 12
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent

Spells 29
4 Invigorate
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Berserk
1 Piracy Charm
1 Become Immense

4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
2 Force of Will

4 Brainstorm
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ponder
1 Crop Rotation

Sideboard
2 Force of Will
1 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Divert
1 Spell Pierce
1 Piracy Charm
2 Stifle
2 Necropede
2 Krosan Grip
1 Sylvan Library


I played 2 Stifle sideboard because I didn't have acces to Submerges at the moment and I had a feeling that they could come out handy and they did. I stifled a few fetchlands and could stifle a storm trigger, he did go off unprotected and I only had a Stifle. They were also better than the Submerges in the matches that I had. The matchups were:

??? - Forgot it
Storm
Esperblade

My deck worked like it should, I knew how and what to board and I had lots of fun playing it. What do you guys think of Stifle? I know that it's been played mainboard but what about it sideboard? People don't expect it and therefore it can catch someone off guard if they didn't see it game 1. I ran it because of the SFM-decks, with Stifle a Mystic is just a Squire and that's not that good.

And what's up with Teferi's Response? I saw it yesterday at SCG Live on stream. Isn't it really expensive to cast? If you're attacking with your Nexus you need another 2 mana to protect the guy. Yeah you draw 2 cards but isn't just playing Vines better? It just seems so expensive to me.

twndomn
02-02-2015, 03:35 PM
And what's up with Teferi's Response? I saw it yesterday at SCG Live on stream. Isn't it really expensive to cast? If you're attacking with your Nexus you need another 2 mana to protect the guy. Yeah you draw 2 cards but isn't just playing Vines better? It just seems so expensive to me.

If the source is a permanent, like R. Port or Goblin Settler, you get rid of it forever (almost, except Loam decks). The deck already packs 4 Vines, Teferi is meant be additional to Vines.

Bosaapje
02-02-2015, 03:42 PM
Oh right, I totally forgot Settler or Port. If Death and Taxes/Goblins is prevalent in the meta it would be a good card in the 75.

M+1
02-02-2015, 04:25 PM
Teferi's Response could also destroy Jitte.

Bosaapje
02-03-2015, 02:45 PM
Teferi's Response could also destroy Jitte.

That's pretty good, 1U: Destroy the biggest threat on the board and draw 2 cards.

Jesture
02-03-2015, 06:34 PM
I played 2 Stifle sideboard because I didn't have acces to Submerges at the moment and I had a feeling that they could come out handy and they did. I stifled a few fetchlands and could stifle a storm trigger, he did go off unprotected and I only had a Stifle. They were also better than the Submerges in the matches that I had.

My deck worked like it should, I knew how and what to board and I had lots of fun playing it. What do you guys think of Stifle? I know that it's been played mainboard but what about it sideboard? People don't expect it and therefore it can catch someone off guard if they didn't see it game 1. I ran it because of the SFM-decks, with Stifle a Mystic is just a Squire and that's not that good.

I've actually been thinking about this card recently, and here's what I came up with.

When selecting card numbers, the obvious tradeoff is between how often you see a card and how often you want to see a card. Stifle is interesting because it's a card that's extremely powerful and flexible, but not one that you ever really want to see multiple copies of, as it loses a lot of utility when people think to play around it. Given how much potential and flexibility the card has, I'd say its place in the 75 is in the main deck, siding it out once you've shown it to your opponent. Between Fetchlands, Stoneforges, Storm decks, and any other activated or triggered abilities I'm not listing, there's rarely a game 1 where having a Stifle catch your opponent off guard won't be a huge swing in your favor. In that regard though, you would want to keep your Stifle in your deck for as many games as it goes unseen, then immediately side it out once your opponent gets wise to your tricks.

Playing Stifle in the sideboard feels a little bit backwards, as those slots tend to be reserved for specific matchups, and there's no real point in running a card in the sideboard if you're bringing it in for the majority of your games. Also keep in mind that if they play around it pre-board, they're still going to be playing around it post-board. You're really just denying yourself an entire game's worth of opportunities to use Stifle if you're only packing it in the sideboard.


And what's up with Teferi's Response? I saw it yesterday at SCG Live on stream. Isn't it really expensive to cast? If you're attacking with your Nexus you need another 2 mana to protect the guy. Yeah you draw 2 cards but isn't just playing Vines better? It just seems so expensive to me.

I think the last couple of posts have tackled this issue well enough. I've play tested Teferi's Response a little bit in the past, but I think I'm going to give it another shot after watching Zachary Koch do work with it at SCG Indy. It feels a lot like Stifle in the sense that it loses a lot of its power once its on your opponents radar, but at the same time it has potential to blow games wide open if timed properly.

poxy14
02-04-2015, 09:48 PM
5th on a 50man tourney (Neutral Grounds GPT Kyoto Legacy, Manila) with UGInfect last Feb 1, 2015. The deck is very solid, you only have to load helpers vs problematic matchups, i dont carry any creature hate anymore and from my previous lists i think that’s the way to go. will link the list once it shows on tcdecks.net.

R1 (vs reanimator) 2-1 (1-0)
counterlight keep game 1 which i quickly lost, game 2 managed to draw my very loaded sb slots vs this archetype that made it easy for me to establish... game 3 was a double become immense for a NOBLE HIERARCH beatdown! wasnt able to draw any infected crit and sided out my crop rots, my opponent using watery graves did help me alot here.

R2 (vs esper deathblade) 2-0 (2-0)
i just had too many creatures both games, and it served a real problem when he has no lots of removals when im applying pressure..

R3 (vs miracles) 2-1 (3-0)
won g1 easily, when i go off for lethal he stp’ed but in no use as i was loaded with vines and dazes, g2 was able to put him down to 1 infect, but his snapcasters are just waiting for every crit i will land..g3 when i landed a turn2 sylvan and abused it! surgicals are very good vs miracles once they do not establish CBToplock, one time during the g3 i surgicalled 1 copy of stp and my opponent having 2 copies at hand!

R4 (vs MUD) 2-1 (4-0)
played vs this archetype and teammate numerous times and im always positive bout this matchup.. i tweaked my sb with a naturalize to negate useless Nclaims on cotv 1..with 2 needles im not worried bout forgemaster to platinum anymore. My TOP8 clinching win was a mulligan 4 game 3... i drew in inkmoth, misty, invi, invi : )

R5 and R6 both ids, and placed 2nd on the rankings

QUARTERS (vs DNT and eventual champion) 0-2

g1 - he had 2 wastes vs my 2 inkmoths on mull 5, my crop rots didnt showed up this time..
g2 - mulled to 4 WHAT! wasnt able to draw any colored sources to start with and it costed me. i still almost stole the game when he attacked his canonist only to die to berserk, if i only drew any +1 pump on my turn itll be a W.

missed winning any dual on the top4 slot but got me a fetch and an ftv annihilation box, it was a 3rd straight top8 for me with UGinfect that’s why i kept on using it still even when i can already switch back to my old reliable RUGDELVER. The deck is less stress to pilot and i always have fun when my opponent’s asking me “am i dead already?”

MiniVan_3
02-04-2015, 11:53 PM
Hi guys, I wound up taking the deck to SCG Indy after all. I was one of the 3 Infect players who made day two, but as I had feared I didn't fare very well vs Shardless, playing against it 3 out of the first four rounds and starting the tournament with a 1-3 record. I managed to rattle off 8 wins in a row after that, against 8 different decks, before finally hitting another Shardless player to be knocked out of top 8 contention. Can someone please give me a general idea of how to board in that MU? I've tried everything I can think of, but I fall just short each time.

poxy14
02-05-2015, 01:33 AM
SB i used last sunday... expecting a combo/reanimator/jitte meta

2 krosan grips
1 naturalize (Nclaim will have no use for chalice.decs, coz they will always target 1)
2 pierces
1 envelop
1 fow
1 necropede
1 sylvan library
1 relic progenitus
1 tormod's crypt
2 surgical extractions
2 pithing needles

@minivan: vs shardless i would do this
(-3 fows, -3dazes, -1ponder, -1 berserk, -1 probe / + 2 pierces, +2needles, +1sylvan, +2surgicals, +1 necropede, +1 krosan grip)

discards and pwalkers that hurts us doesnt come in too early, u have to have any of the 4 pierces available by that time, needling DRS will make our pierces connect, i think fow is just bad vs any discard deck, they will pack in removal like AD's and that's where surgicals come, u can also hit opposing wastelands so u can needle other targets.. 2 artifact might be better but i cant squeeze in 1 more... they will carry needles too, and u can also kill strix that stops our flyers.. its really a tough match up for us i guess...they have sweepers too like toxic deluge, charm...envelop can help us here from deluge. still we need to be the aggressor here, they have lots of controllish stuff and the longer itll take itll be more difficult for us to win.

Alex_UNLIMITED
02-05-2015, 12:37 PM
This Sunday I will have a tournament and I think the metagame will have a prevalence of tricolore blue based and tricolor not blue based (Junk and Maverick). Infect seems quite suitable? How is your sideboarding against Maverick similar decks?

Jesture
02-06-2015, 10:12 AM
This Sunday I will have a tournament and I think the metagame will have a prevalence of tricolore blue based and tricolor not blue based (Junk and Maverick). Infect seems quite suitable? How is your sideboarding against Maverick similar decks?

Depending on what list they're running, Necropede and Piracy Charm can both be very good, as Maverick tends to have a lot of 1 toughness creatures (Thalia, Mother of Runes, Dryad Arbor, I'm seeing Spirit of the Labyrinth and Confidant in some recent posts on the primer). If you're on the draw, I'd also look to side out Daze and Wasteland, as those get a lot worse when you're facing down a t1 Deathrite. On that note, Spell Pierce and FoW are also pretty bad in the matchup, as the first doesn't have a lot of targets and the second is negative card advantage.

In short, it's super situational, but I'd consider something like

On the play:
-2 Spell Pierce
-2 Force Of Will
-1 Inkmoth Nexus
-1 Dig Through Time
-1 Gitaxian Probe

+1 Piracy Charm
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+2 Submerge
+1 Divert

On the draw:
-4 Daze
-2 Spell Pierce
-1 Wasteland
-1 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Glistener Elf

+2 Necropede
+1 Piracy Charm
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+2 Submerge
+1 Divert

Bosaapje
02-06-2015, 03:30 PM
Why the -1 Glistener Elf? Don't you want to have every creature sided in? I know that he doesn't have any form of evasion but it's another target that they need to plow.

Oh and what do you guys think of this SB, I'm expecting D&T, BUG, RUG, ANT, Reanimator, Show and Tell and some Miracles.

2 Force of Will
2 Pithing Needle
2 NEcropede
2 Krosan Grip
1 Piracy Charm
1 Divert
1 Spell Pierce
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Crop Rotation
1 Karakas
1 Sylvan Library

poxy14
02-06-2015, 08:42 PM
This Sunday I will have a tournament and I think the metagame will have a prevalence of tricolore blue based and tricolor not blue based (Junk and Maverick). Infect seems quite suitable? How is your sideboarding against Maverick similar decks?

both are positive matchups for us especially maverick, all they have to do is draw stps (counterable) thalia to slow us down and kotr for wastes which is slow too..inkmoths are king vs this archetype, abrupt decays have no use vs them and dodges liliana's triggers, so u need to stop wastelands
here's my boarding strategy...

vs MAV
- 3 dazes
- 2 pierces
- 1 ponder
- 1 probe

+ 1 necropede
+ 2 krosan grip (vs choke, opposing needles, and equipments)
+ 1 naturalize
+ 2 needles (pridemage, equipments, wastelands)
+ 1 sylvan lib (any slow, grindy midrange deck, this shld be an auto include)

vs JUND
- 3 fows
- 3 dazes
- 1 ponder
- 1 probe

+2 pierces (discards, lotv, pulse, plagues)
+ 1 sylvan lib
+ 2 surgicals (vs removals esp. punishing fire)
+ 1 necropede
+ 2 needles

Jesture
02-07-2015, 03:00 AM
Why the -1 Glistener Elf? Don't you want to have every creature sided in? I know that he doesn't have any form of evasion but it's another target that they need to plow.

Oh and what do you guys think of this SB, I'm expecting D&T, BUG, RUG, ANT, Reanimator, Show and Tell and some Miracles.

2 Force of Will
2 Pithing Needle
2 Necropede
2 Krosan Grip
1 Piracy Charm
1 Divert
1 Spell Pierce
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Crop Rotation
1 Karakas
1 Sylvan Library

Glistener Elf is good against Combo or low creature count decks (Lands, Miracles) where speed is a priority. Maverick is creature based and will always have a 1 or 2 drop, making Glistener Elf on the draw very hard to connect with. If you watched Tom Ross play against Lam Phan's Landstill deck at the SCG invitational, there was a game where he sided out Glistener Elves, as there wasn't a way for him to reliably go for fast kills while playing against Sudden Shock. It's a good lesson to learn, that even though we're pretty threat light there are situations where you'll want to side out creatures (Elf against slower creature decks, Inkmoth against faster decks).

Sideboard looks fine. I'd consider moving a FoW to maindeck as it's very good against ANT, Reanimator, and Sneak and Show. How have Pithing Needles been for you? I find hate permanents to be inconsistent in decks like this.

Bosaapje
02-07-2015, 04:26 PM
Glistener Elf is good against Combo or low creature count decks (Lands, Miracles) where speed is a priority. Maverick is creature based and will always have a 1 or 2 drop, making Glistener Elf on the draw very hard to connect with. If you watched Tom Ross play against Lam Phan's Landstill deck at the SCG invitational, there was a game where he sided out Glistener Elves, as there wasn't a way for him to reliably go for fast kills while playing against Sudden Shock. It's a good lesson to learn, that even though we're pretty threat light there are situations where you'll want to side out creatures (Elf against slower creature decks, Inkmoth against faster decks).

Sideboard looks fine. I'd consider moving a FoW to maindeck as it's very good against ANT, Reanimator, and Sneak and Show. How have Pithing Needles been for you? I find hate permanents to be inconsistent in decks like this.

Right, I get you about the Elfs.

I don't know how the Peedles are, I could only find 1 and decided that I didn't want to play just a random one off. A Needle sounds pretty good to me, it can stop Jitte and a lot of other cards. Why do you think that permanents are inconsistent? If you replaced it by 2 Submerges (also an unique effect in the deck, just like Jitte) you need to find it with Brainstorms and what not. Same with Pithing Needle I guess.

So I played the tournament today, 5 rounds, 32 people and went 3-2. Not that great but I had a game one where the opponent opens with turn 1 Elesh Norn (didn't knew he played Reanimator so I had an aggro hand without disruption). Second game he opens with counter back up with a Blazing Archon. It was a quick match 1. Match 2 was a win (Faerie Standstill nonsense, won with a 16/11 trample Glistener Elf, that felt good). Match 3 was a win (mirror but he played really really really bad, fetching without a reason therefore Brainstorm locking him the next turn, stuff like that). Match 4 was a win (forgot what it was) and match 5 was Mud. That was an exiting match. He won game 1 due to just being Mud and playing Ugin or something ridiculous like that. Game 2 I won because I was too quick. Game 3 he won but barely. He was at 8 infect but had 1 Lodestone Golem and attacked with it. He dropped 2 other Golems that same turn but I had a Glistener Elf and a Noble Hierarch to block them with if I needed to. I was at 13 and had an Inkmoth Nexus on top so I just needed to block 1 Golem the next turn, go to 3 and my Nexus would not be summoning sick anymore and I would ride to victory. Only he topdecked a Wasteland and wasted me. That was game 3 and it could also be 4-1 for me today, the lucky topdeck was lucky but that just happens sometimes so I'm not even mad about it.

My list felt pretty solid, it's just UG Beatdown with nothing special except 1 Piracy Charm maindeck. I'm only thinking to get rid of my one off Ponder and replace it with Dig Through Time. It's 1 mana (late game) more but the cardadvantage is much greater. It's only in the same spot delve-wise as Become Immense, so that's maybe a problem as well. Has someone tested the card? I read about DTT in a previous post but I can't remember if the player was positive about it or not.

sporenfrosch1411
02-08-2015, 05:29 AM
In a meta full of Countertop and some 12post, what would be the best cards to sideboard besides Krosan Grip? Or do you think Krosan Grip is enough to beat countertop?

M+1
02-08-2015, 06:32 AM
In a meta full of Countertop and some 12post, what would be the best cards to sideboard besides Krosan Grip?
If 12post is playing instants (Brainstorm/Repeal/Crop Rotation/Moment's Peace): Dispel. Against UW Dispel counters StP, counters, and sometimes Brainstorm/DTT.
You could also try Winter Orb in that meta.

Krosan Grip is a fine answer to CB, but I don't think you can afford to bring more than that in specifically against CB.

Bosaapje
02-08-2015, 08:49 AM
In a meta full of Countertop and some 12post, what would be the best cards to sideboard besides Krosan Grip? Or do you think Krosan Grip is enough to beat countertop?

You could run Pithing Needle. I haven't tested it yet but it's good against CounterTop and it's also not that bad against 12Post. It stops Candelabra, Eye of Ugin, Expedition Map and maybe a few other cards. It's a pre-emptive act of stopping something but I can't imagine that it's not good. We also have a pretty good matchup against miracles because they give us so much time, so I wouldn't worry too much about that match up. Just side in at least Grips and then or Dispel, Needle, Spell Pierce and cards like that.

echofish
02-08-2015, 10:03 AM
Anyone considered Apostle's Blessing? It's really good for protecting our creatures, which is more important then have a chance to kill on turn2. It can also be used to push through damage. And it can be cast of a Nexus, which will get them by surprize.

Seems like 2 Immense and 2 Berserk is the standard these days, but it's really annoying to have all our creatures destroyed by plows and decays while sitting on pump spells in hand. The turn2 kill game plan is really bad most of the time. If you just go for it, you might easily get 3-for-1-ed. For a turn2 kill, you need to either have information (probe), vines and/or counterspells.

The primarly game plan is most often to attack with exalted triggers and pendelhaven, waiting for opponent to initiate removal. If this removal is not bolts, you only have vines to protect it.

So if our pump spells is primarly used for protection, then why not just use Apostle's Blessing instead? Atleast now, in this decay infested meta.

Bosaapje
02-08-2015, 10:47 AM
Anyone considered Apostle's Blessing? It's really good for protecting our creatures, which is more important then have a chance to kill on turn2. It can also be used to push through damage. And it can be cast of a Nexus, which will get them by surprize.

Seems like 2 Immense and 2 Berserk is the standard these days, but it's really annoying to have all our creatures destroyed by plows and decays while sitting on pump spells in hand. The turn2 kill game plan is really bad most of the time. If you just go for it, you might easily get 3-for-1-ed. For a turn2 kill, you need to either have information (probe), vines and/or counterspells.

The primarly game plan is most often to attack with exalted triggers and pendelhaven, waiting for opponent to initiate removal. If this removal is not bolts, you only have vines to protect it.

So if our pump spells is primarly used for protection, then why not just use Apostle's Blessing instead? Atleast now, in this decay infested meta.

I've tested a lot with Blessing because I played it for a long time as my 5th Vines. I liked it very much but user Jesture convinced me to run Piracy Charm because I noticed that Blessing was making a creature unblockable most of the time. Sure, it protected against removal but my meta here in Europe is pretty combo orientated so there isn't a lot of removal. But I would run it if you experience a lot of removal. How is your maindeck now? How did you fill up your flex spots.

echofish
02-08-2015, 10:56 AM
I havn't included them yet, but here is my list, with one in the sb.


4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch

3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Daze
2 Crop Rotation
2 Become Immense
2 Spell Pierce
2 Berserk
3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Invigorate

1 Forest
2 Pendelhaven
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 Inkmoth Nexus

SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Nature's Claim
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Submerge
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 1 Wasteland
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Yavimaya Hollow
SB: 1 Mirri's Guile
SB: 1 Apostle's Blessing

Bosaapje
02-08-2015, 12:01 PM
I havn't included them yet, but here is my list, with one in the sb.


4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch

3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Daze
2 Crop Rotation
2 Become Immense
2 Spell Pierce
2 Berserk
3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Invigorate

1 Forest
2 Pendelhaven
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 Inkmoth Nexus

SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Nature's Claim
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Submerge
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 1 Wasteland
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Yavimaya Hollow
SB: 1 Mirri's Guile
SB: 1 Apostle's Blessing

You could move 1 Force of Will to the sideboard because it's only good against the unfair decks and they don't run Decay. Also Blessing counters Decay so you get one pseudo counter back. What I would cut in the sideboard is a Wasteland, I would run it mainboard in favor of the second Pendelhaven. I had too many problems with 3 lands that only tap for G and aren't Islands.

How do you like the Mirri's Guile? Isn't Sylvan Library in almost every situation better? It's slower but you board it in against the slower decks so you've got enough time for that. Drawing those extra cards and just killing the opponent while they didn't expect it is pretty good. And Yavimaya Hollow, against what do you side it in? Stuff with Bolts I guess but isn't it too mana hungry.

echofish
02-08-2015, 12:13 PM
You could move 1 Force of Will to the sideboard because it's only good against the unfair decks and they don't run Decay. Also Blessing counters Decay so you get one pseudo counter back. What I would cut in the sideboard is a Wasteland, I would run it mainboard in favor of the second Pendelhaven. I had too many problems with 3 lands that only tap for G and aren't Islands.

How do you like the Mirri's Guile? Isn't Sylvan Library in almost every situation better? It's slower but you board it in against the slower decks so you've got enough time for that. Drawing those extra cards and just killing the opponent while they didn't expect it is pretty good. And Yavimaya Hollow, against what do you side it in? Stuff with Bolts I guess but isn't it too mana hungry.

I rarely need wasteland. Only good vs Lands.dec etc. Haven is very important, and I don't tend to have mana problems. I had Sylvan and just changed to Mirri so I havn't really tried it yet, but I find myself not using Sylvan to draw extra cards and Mirri is faster and even maindeckable. Hollow is also new and I think the deck should go for a land tutor package for sideboard, since we don't really afford to board anything out. When we already use Crop Rotation, we can abuse it. Hollow works vs Decays and Bolts.

I have been thinking about removing FoW, actually.

Bosaapje
02-08-2015, 01:49 PM
I rarely need wasteland. Only good vs Lands.dec etc. Haven is very important, and I don't tend to have mana problems. I had Sylvan and just changed to Mirri so I havn't really tried it yet, but I find myself not using Sylvan to draw extra cards and Mirri is faster and even maindeckable. Hollow is also new and I think the deck should go for a land tutor package for sideboard, since we don't really afford to board anything out. When we already use Crop Rotation, we can abuse it. Hollow works vs Decays and Bolts.

I have been thinking about removing FoW, actually.

Really? Even in matchups where Wasteland isn't that good I still have plays sometimes when I'm on the play, open with Hierarch and then next turn waste them. It's not consistent but I don't want that to be it. It can deliver a blow to some decks from which they can never come back. It also depends on the meta of course. I noticed that Haven isn't that important here, not important enough to run 2 of them (due to Legend rule problems).

Tom Ross did also maindeck Sylvan Library, so it's also possible to do that. I would never play Guile but if you think that Guile is better for your deck then do it.

Hollow does that indeed but it forces you to play the slow plan. I would rather play Divert, Misdirection or Spell Pierce to combat the Bolts and Decays than I would run Hollow but to each their own. I'm not confident enough to say: "This card is really rubbish, don't play it".

echofish
02-10-2015, 06:53 AM
I havn't really tried Mirri that much, but you can land it on turn 2 along with an Agent, which seems nice.

Bosaapje
02-11-2015, 12:17 PM
I havn't really tried Mirri that much, but you can land it on turn 2 along with an Agent, which seems nice.

That's true. Guess it's up to testing.

Has anyone ever tried Might of Old Krosa? And if so, how did you like it?

echofish
02-12-2015, 11:05 AM
Anyone else find the deck really boring after some games? I don't know why, but I can't really play more then 2-3 games with it. I think maybe it's because when you win, you don't get the feeling that you have really crushed your opponent. It also feels like you are always playing at the mercy of the opponent, and when you lose, you lose hard and it feels really hopeless.

Anyone else feeling the same?

Jesture
02-12-2015, 12:20 PM
Anyone else find the deck really boring after some games? I don't know why, but I can't really play more then 2-3 games with it. I think maybe it's because when you win, you don't get the feeling that you have really crushed your opponent. It also feels like you are always playing at the mercy of the opponent, and when you lose, you lose hard and it feels really hopeless.

Anyone else feeling the same?

As politely as I can put it, there's a good chance you're playing the deck horribly wrong. I've had a lot of experience with fair decks, and Infect is one of the most difficult and rewarding decks to play. It sounds like you're trying to play it like a combo deck, which is certainly not what it is.

echofish
02-12-2015, 12:46 PM
No, I do not play it as combo deck at all, and that is part of the reason I'm thinking about maindecking apostle's blessing instead of pump. I never ever go for the kill with pumps unless I'm 100% certain he has nothing or I have vines/counterspells backup.

Bosaapje
02-12-2015, 01:07 PM
No, I do not play it as combo deck at all, and that is part of the reason I'm thinking about maindecking apostle's blessing instead of pump. I never ever go for the kill with pumps unless I'm 100% certain he has nothing or I have vines/counterspells backup.

And I think that it's good to do it like that. You just can't afford to let your creature and your pumpspells to die in a way like that. But you said that you don't have the feeling that you crush your opponent, why not? Did you never attack with a 10/5 Glistener Elf with trample? Or something like that?

Jesture
02-12-2015, 01:58 PM
No, I do not play it as combo deck at all, and that is part of the reason I'm thinking about maindecking apostle's blessing instead of pump. I never ever go for the kill with pumps unless I'm 100% certain he has nothing or I have vines/counterspells backup.

Maybe try running with a stock list before getting fancy. I was looking at your previous post, and that decklist has some... questionable choices. Consider taking some play by play notes at your next event. It'd help us figure out why you feel at the mercy of opponents, and I'd like to be proven wrong about some of your oddball deck choices.

echofish
02-12-2015, 02:57 PM
And I think that it's good to do it like that. You just can't afford to let your creature and your pumpspells to die in a way like that. But you said that you don't have the feeling that you crush your opponent, why not? Did you never attack with a 10/5 Glistener Elf with trample? Or something like that?

That is not my definition of crushing the opponent and it doesn't satisfy me much. A monkey can play glistener elf + invigorate + berserk.

I know this is not the deck to "crush" anyone with, but when I have port + thalia + mangara lock with Death and Taxes while attacking with a serra avenger with a sword and opponent doesn't own a permanent. That is my definition of crushing.


Maybe try running with a stock list before getting fancy. I was looking at your previous post, and that decklist has some... questionable choices. Consider taking some play by play notes at your next event. It'd help us figure out why you feel at the mercy of opponents, and I'd like to be proven wrong about some of your oddball deck choices.

I did not say that I didn't win matches. What is questionable about the list? Yavimaya Hollow? I took it out and I now run 2 apostle's blessing in sideboard that I bring in instead of fow in matches where I expect much removal, and it is working great.

When I say that I'm at the mercy of the opponent is that they can have a board flooded with creatures and planeswalkers and I can't really do anything about it. If I play a creature I need to hope that it gets to live to get an attack and can squeeze in a kill.

And btw I did get the Hollow from this #1 list: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9047&d=251538&f=LE

Jesture
02-12-2015, 07:00 PM
That is not my definition of crushing the opponent and it doesn't satisfy me much. A monkey can play glistener elf + invigorate + berserk.

I know this is not the deck to "crush" anyone with, but when I have port + thalia + mangara lock with Death and Taxes while attacking with a serra avenger with a sword and opponent doesn't own a permanent. That is my definition of crushing.



I did not say that I didn't win matches. What is questionable about the list? Yavimaya Hollow? I took it out and I now run 2 apostle's blessing in sideboard that I bring in instead of fow in matches where I expect much removal, and it is working great.

When I say that I'm at the mercy of the opponent is that they can have a board flooded with creatures and planeswalkers and I can't really do anything about it. If I play a creature I need to hope that it gets to live to get an attack and can squeeze in a kill.

And btw I did get the Hollow from this #1 list: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9047&d=251538&f=LE

Very clever of you to explain Yavimaya Hollow's place in the deck while telling us that you cut it.

But no, that's not the questionable choice I was referring to. Your list plays 2 copies of Crop Rotation and 2 copies of Become Immense in the main. I can only assume the former is there to fuel the latter, especially since you've removed a third of the utility provided by Crop Rotation by taking Wasteland out of the main. That with the extra Pendelhaven really makes me wonder about the game plan you're trying to set up with this deck.

Edited for correction, some D&T lists still play Mangara.

echofish
02-13-2015, 01:21 AM
Very clever of you to explain Yavimaya Hollow's place in the deck while telling us that you cut it.

But no, that's not the questionable choice I was referring to. Your list plays 2 copies of Crop Rotation and 2 copies of Become Immense in the main. I can only assume the former is there to fuel the latter, especially since you've removed a third of the utility provided by Crop Rotation by taking Wasteland out of the main. That with the extra Pendelhaven really makes me wonder about the game plan you're trying to set up with this deck.

Edited for correction, some D&T lists still play Mangara.

Pendelhaven is very important when playing conservative, like I said in the last post. When attacking with no pump spells, you really need pendelhaven and exalted triggers to speed the clock up and force initiative from the opponent. Crop Rot is super sweet that can fuel an early Immense kill, but normally it is used to dodge Wasteland or getting a new nexus eot and makes the foundation of the land tutor package in the sideboard.

This is getting out of hand. I was just asking if anyone else find the deck boring after 2-3 games.

Seven_six
02-13-2015, 01:59 PM
I don't find it boring at all. This is my favoutire deck to play. So much so that I am getting almost the entire deck altered by a local artist. And I love crushing with it. T2/T3 kills with multiple counter backup is definitely crushing it! Hanging in there and almost losing, only to find that one opening and kill them in 1 turn out of nowhere? Crushing it! I just like to keep playing it against more and more decks to learn how to play it better, and it rewards me by winning more.

Neffy
02-15-2015, 03:06 AM
Me neither. I think its fun to win with creatures that fast and being able to stop combo decks going off themselves is a very nice bonus. Its a solid deck and games vary alot which is fun too.

Yesterday I won a 16 man elimination tournament (4 rounds) with infect going undefeated (2-0 all rounds).

The list was;

1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Pendelhaven
4 Tropical Island
1 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Become Immense
2 Berserk
4 Blighted Agent
4 Brainstorm
2 Crop Rotation
4 Daze
3 Force of Will
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Glistener Elf
4 Invigorate
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Spell Pierce
3 Vines of Vastwood
Sideboard:

1 Bojuka Bog
2 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Karakas
2 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
1 Pithing Needle
1 Spell Pierce
2 Submerge
1 Sylvan Library
1 Teferi's Response

Rounds were vs. elves, sneak attack, reanimator and BUG.
The two last games were wild.
Vs. Reanimator I go off in turn 2. Second game he has Grislebrand, Iiona and Elesh Norn in GY. He casts a reanimate on Elesh which I force. He forces back. I forces it again, and he misdirections it. It resolves. Elesh on board - damn.
I did not have a creature though. Im at 12, with berserk and invigorate in hand. As i hoped he attacks, empty handed, and I Berserk her and takes 8. I quickly top deck creature and become immense to beat for enough poison. Great game.

In the BUG match, I raced two delvers and a DRS, with double submerge. and inkmoths. At one point in a game I had two trops and played a nexus to bait to him wasteland it. He did - and I resolved a Teferi's Response. Greatest feeling EVER! So good!

Just a short brief of the games, but seems like there are a lot of good matchups out there!

SaberTooth
02-19-2015, 09:40 AM
hi! im new to the deck (but i play infect in modern) i have access to just 1 berserk, there's something to replace it? i was thinking about another become inmense, but with my lack of experience with the deck i dont know what to do

Arksz
02-19-2015, 10:23 AM
As politely as I can put it, there's a good chance you're playing the deck horribly wrong. I've had a lot of experience with fair decks, and Infect is one of the most difficult and rewarding decks to play. It sounds like you're trying to play it like a combo deck, which is certainly not what it is.

Just curious how does the deck actually play? I have most of the cards to try it out. Is it more of an aggro/control style? How do you usually play out a game?

Jesture
02-19-2015, 02:05 PM
hi! im new to the deck (but i play infect in modern) i have access to just 1 berserk, there's something to replace it? i was thinking about another become inmense, but with my lack of experience with the deck i dont know what to do

I'd recommend picking up that second Berserk as soon as possible. Any deck is playable without the standard setup, it's just a matter of how much of a cut in power level you're willing to take versus how much you're willing to invest to pick up the remaining cards. If you're playing a 74 card stock list with a copy of Become Immense in place of the Berserk (I'm assuming two copies, three delve cards is too many), try turning one copy of Become Immense upside down to see how often it would make a difference if you were playing a Berserk there instead.

The modern version of Infect is similar to the legacy setup, minus the burst element (Invigorate, Berserk) and legacy blue good stuff (Brainstorm, Daze, FoW). I'd recommend just playing a few games with legacy infect to feel out the difference, then from there decide if you want to shell out and pick up that last copy of Berserk. It's definitely not a deck for everyone and it takes a lot of time to figure out a lot of the smaller tricks, so there's a reasonable chance that you decide you'd rather play something else.


Just curious how does the deck actually play? I have most of the cards to try it out. Is it more of an aggro/control style? How do you usually play out a game?

In a single word, the deck plays patiently.

In a few more words, it's important to point out some of the other legacy decks that play pump spells (hint: there are none.) Because the quality of creature removal is so high in legacy, pump spells are often just a set up for card disadvantage. You swing, they don't block, you pump, you pump again for lethal, they StP your creature, you just got 3 for 1'd. The upside for pump spells is tremendous in this deck (Invigorate reads "Target creature gains +8/+4 until end of turn" and it costs 0 mana), but pump spells themselves are inherently dangerous. As such, it's absolutely crucial to know when to go for the kill. Overextending or misplaying with this deck will punish you almost more severely than any other fair deck in the format. While other lists have a reasonably easy time rebuilding, Infect requires at least one threat and one protective/pump spell to go for the kill (your creatures are significantly weaker when they're blocked as they're all base 1/1.) Trying to piece together a board and hand that can attack safely while playing with a large card deficit is almost impossible.

Infect is a deck that has tremendous potential for outracing people, as your creatures functionally deal double damage (10 poison versus 20 life.) You'll roflstomp a lot of wins off of people who don't know how to play against the deck. That said, if you overextend and come across someone who can punish mistakes, you'll find yourself losing horribly, ending games with no creatures on board and fewer cards in hand than opponent.

SaberTooth
02-20-2015, 08:22 AM
of course, but i cant find it and i have a torunament in a couple of weeks xd

Deckerator
02-27-2015, 08:19 AM
Against which kind of decks would you recommend this deck?
I have MUD, D&T, Grixis Delver, UWR Patriot, Burn, Merfolk. Do you think it is the right choice? I am a bit scared of the burn decks.

datanaga
02-27-2015, 08:26 AM
Against which kind of decks would you recommend this deck?
I have MUD, D&T, Grixis Delver, UWR Patriot, Burn, Merfolk. Do you think it is the right choice? I am a bit scared of the burn decks.

Merfolk is bye, MUD with turn 1 chalice is pain, but inconsistent and after sb we have krosan grip, Burn is OK matchup, only card that really matters is lavamancer, D&T is easy matchup only thalia and 4x swords matters, Im much more afraid of delver decks, especially UWR Patriot is almost unwinable (7 removal maindeck, plus counterspells and jitte backup).

Deckerator
02-27-2015, 09:32 AM
Thanks. That means hopefully i dont play against Patriot.
What do you think about Grixis Delver with Chains, Bolt, TS, and Swiftspear?
I wanna play some numbers of Spellskite in the sideboard and hopefully it helps.

Do you play the U/G Version? I saw the version with the white splash in the sb. Do you think this white splash would be an option?

poxy14
02-27-2015, 08:28 PM
this is the list that worked for me, unbeaten in swiss only to fall with just horrible draws over a favorable matchup (DnT) in the quarters..
might change the following (-1 pierce, -1 relic progen, -1 envelop to + 2 hydroblasts + negate)

2 become immense seems to be real effective especially vs decks that doesnt interact well with creatures, u can unload all vines vs combos without losing explosiveness with BI's.. im still testing a 1 off REALITY RIPPLE as it can protect our lands, eot tap a port or phaseout any annoying blocker, can also save 1 crit from mass removal or lotv,jtms activation and attack the turn it comes back..i'll let u know all bout it after tomorrow's big tourney..

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16097&iddeck=120173

M+1
02-28-2015, 08:18 AM
REALITY RIPPLE
Hey, that is my secret tech. ;-)
It is obviously not a very powerful effect (except against Marit Lage token) but the flexibility of the card is above anything else, acting as either protection or 'removal'.
Curious to hear about your experience with it.

Alex_UNLIMITED
02-28-2015, 09:01 AM
I've a doubt about the match against decks like ANT. Do you side out Vines of Vastwood even if they have Abrupt Decay? What's you sideboarding against that deck?
Do you side out Berserk against decks with a lot of removal? Which decks, for example?

datanaga
02-28-2015, 06:36 PM
I've a doubt about the match against decks like ANT. Do you side out Vines of Vastwood even if they have Abrupt Decay? What's you sideboarding against that deck?
Do you side out Berserk against decks with a lot of removal? Which decks, for example?

Yes, I side all 3x vines out versus ANT and also pair of agents, their removal is decay and chain of vapor, both can not target inkmoth nexus. Side in: 1x FOW, 2x pierce, 1x bojuka bog, 1x surgical extraction, Infect play bit control role here.
Yes, against Canadian and UWR delver for example I side Berserk out.

zzregz
03-01-2015, 01:58 PM
Congratulation to Poxy14 "The BOSS" for being the champion!!! :D

Deckerator
03-01-2015, 02:58 PM
How do you board against all the different decks?
Can you help me and post some ideas against all the different decks?

How do you play against Goyf, Delver, Swiftspear decks? In this match-ups Glistener Elf seems useless.

poxy14
03-01-2015, 09:40 PM
1st with UGInfect, Cerberus Legacy Open, Manila 40+man tournament

crits (12) = 4 each nobles / glisteners / blighteds
lands (19) = 2misty/3wooded/3windswept/2pendelhavens/4inkmoths/1forest/4trops
spells (29) = 4bstorms/ 3 probes / 1ponder / 3 fows / 3 dazes / 2 pierces / 2 berserks / 2 croprots / 4 invigorates / 2 become immense / 3 vines

sideboards (15)
2 surgicals - really helped me vs any random combo decks
1 tormod’s crypt
2 needles
1 krosan grip
1 naturalize
1 nature’s claim
1 force of will
1 flusterstorm
1 negate
1 spellskite
1 hydroblast
1 spell pierce

Round 1 (1-0) MUD (2-0)
avoided chalices as he wasnt able to draw em both games, glisteners got there fast..with multiple needles too in my sb, i was able to draw them fast for kuldotha forgemaster, notice that i carry variable artifact hates (kgrip, naturalize, nclaim) to avoid any lock, lots of chalice.dec yesterday!

Round 2 (2-0) ANT (2-1)
won game 1. lost game 2 easily and was able to draw an explosive hand with a turn1 glistener and some counter backup game 3.

Round 3 (3-0) BELCHER (2-1)
kept a mediocre hand on the play and got punished! game 2 drew both needles and landed a blighted so possible tokens wont have no business with my clock, game 3 when my opponent pondered on comboing off, both of us mull’ed to 6, he waited for another turn coz going all-in that turn and possible FOW on my opening would just crush him.. didnt have a fow though and on my turn i was able to brainstorm for protection.

Round 4 (3-0-1) MIRACLES (draw)
slow hand for me back-uped with counters, he eventually got there with vendilion, all 4 of my inkmoths got stp’ed...
game 2 wherein i landed a needle, he lets it resolve with a flooded strand in play...thought of me naming top, i instead named fstrand! and he has 2 more in his hands! easy win haha! game 3 when time’s almost up, on my last available turn, i can still go lethal, but pierces on my become immense sealed the tie.

Round 5 (4-0-1) MAVERICK (2-0)
i go for a 1 lander with multiple nobles, but he landed a maze of ith vs my blighted...slowly loxodon smiter is nearing the finishline and he got another wasteland on site..i drew a fetch, fetched for trop eot, he activated wasteland and that’s my turning point to croprot it to inkmoth, it then attacked with blighted to put pressure on his maze, the un-mazed inkmoth blasted him with poison! g2 was fast as i was able to assemble invi+berserk via super excited, i mean exalted glistener elf : )

Round 6 (4-0-2) REANIMATOR
ID to get some dinner and prepare for top8

Quarterfinals (5-0-2) UB OMNITELL (2-0)
paired with a good friend of mine, when i probed him he has no combo pcs off, but has lots of protection via 2 flusters main and a dtt, he has 2 omni though, i got an early glistener and planned to put pressure early coz i cant win the counterwar vs his hand, i blasted several invis and BI to let him drop the flusters, at lethal nextturn he dtt’ed and that’s where i was able to use my fows. game 2 wherein he needed just 1 land on his turn, facing lethal nextturn...he didnt drew it.

semi-finals (6-0-2) DARK MAV
paired with my fellow teammate and decided to split whatever prizes we get, the team decided to let me in vs the other table with 2 teamates too deciding what should they’ll be sending in the finals....

finals (7-0-2) SNEAKSHOW
lost game 1 via not having any of my invigorates when he hasnt had any counter still, my slow process was not a good approach vs griselbrand..game 2 won easily by establishing a forest and nobles, he landed a bloodmoon which didnt matter and saved my counters for his combo. game3 i got a real blue hand with noble, 1 fetch and glistener...i landed a noble first on just 1 land and my daze connected asap with his turn2 show via petal, i landed my glistener and had numerous pierces still, blighted and fow...2 more turns my glistener with 2 nobles is almost at the finish line, he pyroclasmed on his turn, i pierced, he fow’ed on an empty hand...i dazed with still a fow backup to earn the handshake. SWEET!


The deck is fun to play, even on very tight situations you only need one opening to execute the W, opponents that underestimate the little infected crits will be punished, and what i love most are the eot croprot to inkmoth to go for the surprise kill. It was a 4 straight top8 for me with infect, gladly i pulled this one off after 3 quarterfinals setback. Have fun Infecting!

@ZZREGZ: thanks man! im glad u decided to go there and watched the games, im glad i did well for the team! oh, btw, TOM ROSS is still my BOSS! : )
@M+1: reality ripple is great on playtesting, it was listed yesterday only to drop it vs NEGATE the time i submitted my list, i saw lots of combo and made the last tweak, made significant effects as i battled omnitell and snt in the quarters and finals. vs heavy removal deck i would include RR back, ive tested RR before when im playing rug vs adecays : )

poxy14
03-01-2015, 09:57 PM
How do you play against Goyf, Delver, Swiftspear decks? In this match-ups Glistener Elf seems useless.

just be aggressive, we dont have removal and the gameplan is just to insert in one of guys and connect from there, if you see ground forces stalled, play carefully with your blighteds, or go in the skies with inkmoths.. pumps serves as our very important removals vs blockers, some of our troops will eventually die but they will give us the very important opening we need. A good delver player (i play RUGDelver too!) will not attack with his delver without burn backup.. when im on infect and sees delver, i go aggressive with my inkmoths, with pendels and nobles some might get big and withstand a delver block. i carry 2 become immense and when stalled vs a big wall, invi+become immense+exalted+ BERSERK is hard to STOP haha! the deck needs just 1 opening, just 1 opening it'll get you there! be patient and careful planning is key, Tom Ross' vids are very helpful coz he plays really well.

Neffy
03-02-2015, 02:36 AM
Regarding Reality Ripple vs. Marit Lage, I think its just a cute card as we have other very effective spells against it.
I did a half day testing against lands yesterday and won probably 7 of 10 due to my submerges and karakas. Running these are pure evil against that darn token and i highly recommend it.

Btw a singleton Teferi's response is nuts against a deck that tries to waste-loam-lock you. Made my opponent fell for it 3 games in a row. Such awesome, much advantage.

Congratz to Poxy14 with the results. How are 19 lands treating you? I often experience floods with my 20 lands but I have not yet had the balls to cut one.

poxy14
03-02-2015, 02:50 AM
Congratz to Poxy14 with the results. How are 19 lands treating you? I often experience floods with my 20 lands but I have not yet had the balls to cut one.

thanks neffy! my meta just dont play lands.dec, but if it shows up in large number, i would have to copy your teferi's response : ), i purely loaded up on chalices, dnts and combos..that's why i didnt bother to bring in any removal with me vs crit, since i think i can outrace any fair given one good chance. before piloting this deck i was a RUGDelver pilot, for years ive played with just 6 real lands, no manadorks..this however gave me the confidence to run 19 (1 more than rug) and with nobles too to help me.
i once tried 9 fetches, 3 trops, 1 forest just to fuel up BImmense.. but i think the 4 trops is already ok and will stabilize whatever we want to play.

M+1
03-02-2015, 02:56 AM
Nice result, and thanks for the report. Fortunate that you avoided all those Chalices, with only 2 removal for it. :-)
How did Surgical help you, exactly? I see no mention of it in any of your games.

M+1
03-02-2015, 03:01 AM
Regarding Reality Ripple vs. Marit Lage, I think its just a cute card as we have other very effective spells against it.
Ripple is for countering any removal spell/effect on our creature, or phasing out a troublesome permanent such as Chalice, or Needle on Inkmoth.
Marit Lage token is just splash damage.

poxy14
03-02-2015, 03:44 AM
Nice result, and thanks for the report. Fortunate that you avoided all those Chalices, with only 2 removal for it. :-)
How did Surgical help you, exactly? I see no mention of it in any of your games.

i actually have 3 vs chalice (kgrip, naturalize, nature's claim) reality ripple can also act as a partial removal upon targetting an artifact, it once connected vs platinum angel (MUD) with 12 infect counters on the player, during one of my playtests with cotv on 3 for grips/invis....and it was sweet!

surgical was awesome for me, i hit belcher by getting a lone rite flame to slow his ramp somehow...it was key vs miracles, last tourney (5th place) i once hit STP, brainstorm, i like hitting random stuffs too like ponders, show, abrupts.. just about anything annoying : )

datanaga
03-02-2015, 03:51 AM
sideboards (15)
2 surgicals - really helped me vs any random combo decks
1 tormod’s crypt
2 needles
1 krosan grip
1 naturalize
1 nature’s claim
1 force of will
1 flusterstorm
1 negate
1 spellskite
1 hydroblast
1 spell pierce



congrats, nice to see infect doing so well, in your meta full of combo it is the best deck of choice:)
why did you play tormods crypt over bojuka bog in SB?

poxy14
03-02-2015, 08:49 AM
@datanaga: thanks man! i saw it this way vs gydecks...instead of holding up mana to crop rot for bog...i would rather spend it countering spells with a crypt on a standby..very clever players would know we carry a one-of bog and would try to disrupt croprot for them to execute their gameplan. i love playing crypt when im on rugdelver..im just a fan of zero spells like surgicals and crypts that enables us to leave us mana still..very efficient.

Gui
03-02-2015, 09:36 AM
Any reason on why people don't use 4 Gitaxian Probe here? The card is so strong in these decks, it feels like cheating (http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28925_The-Soapbox-Oppressive-Cards-The-Hall-of-Fame-and-Modern.html)... Information and better card quality at the cost of little life, for such a fast deck.

Deckerator
03-02-2015, 10:20 AM
@poxy14
congratz on your finish and thanks for all the good advices


After finishing my maindeck i am going to think about my sideboard.

Like i have said before my meta consists of MUD, UWR Patriot, Grixis Delver, D&T, Stiflenought, Elves, Burn, Merfolk, Miracles.

This is the board i thought about:

2x Spellskite
2x Hydroblast
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Tower of the Magistrate
1x Karakas
1x Sylvan library
1x Krosan Grip
1x Flusterstorm
2x Submerge
2x Nature's Claim
1x Force of Will

What do you think of this sideboard in the meta i have listed above? Do you think i should play a second Krosan Grip instead of a second Nature's Claim because if i need an artefact removal against, for example Chalice. Krip would be much better.

What would you change? Help is appreciated:smile:

poxy14
03-02-2015, 11:15 AM
@gui: i agree with you that gprobes are very good in this deck as it sequence good lines of plays..but the deck needs more diggers to find explosive pcs we need on the shortest possible time. ponder presents as our 5th brainstorm that allows us to shuffle to..i tried sylvan once over the lone ponder and it is just too slow.

@deckerator: if there are no bug/rug in ur meta i will just drop the submerges..if you are talking bout the elves matchup, we're so favorable over this! drop an inkmoth or blighted..dnt be afraid to trade ur glisteners as it can lower their crit count, try bluffing with them too on an attacking glistener..just counter glimpse and fow them natorders away..brainstorm for invi berserk combo as fast as u could and it can get u there..

on the mud matchup, good player shld set cotv to 3 to avoid explosive starts with invigorates and removal via kgrips..ive punished mud with a streak of 8 straight wins! coz often times they set it to 1.. still we can land blighted or inkmoths..i carry variables (see decklist) to avoid any sort of lock. if ur meta is infested with burn..grixis tempo..uwr patriot..load more hydroblasts.. wild defiance can be of help too together with the ever reliable spellskite..u might want to carry some chill too.

Deckerator
03-02-2015, 12:23 PM
Thanks. No i dont remember to have BUG or RUG in my meta. For that reason i will change the 2x Submerge with 2x chill or 1x chill and 1x Wild Defiance?
Most of my meta is with red. You mean i should add some more hydroblast but for what? I could drop a Karakas too.

echofish
03-02-2015, 12:59 PM
So here are some arguments for not playing Berserk.

- Does rarely anything by itself
- Can't protect creatures

Also having a hand full of pump and no creatures is really bad.

The argument for playing Berserk is for the turn 2 kill, which should be avoided unless the planets are all aligned perfectly, and you have complete information and/or enough protection. We can't play infect as a combo deck, then why should we play Berserk? I know that it can kill creatures and force through trample damage, but this happens rarely.

Why not go for a more tempo plan like RUG Delver and play atleast 1 wasteland along with 2 haven, 4 vines and some stifles or more counter magic? You still have the turn 2 kill with double invigorate + exalted or invigorate + immense.

prgmctan
03-02-2015, 01:11 PM
So here are some arguments for not playing Berserk.

- Does rarely anything by itself
- Can't protect creatures

Also having a hand full of pump and no creatures is really bad.

The argument for playing Berserk is for the turn 2 kill, which should be avoided unless the planets are all aligned perfectly, and you have complete information and/or enough protection. We can't play infect as a combo deck, then why should we play Berserk? I know that it can kill creatures and force through trample damage, but this happens rarely.

Why not go for a more tempo plan like RUG Delver and play atleast 1 wasteland along with 2 haven, 4 vines and some stifles or more counter magic? You still have the turn 2 kill with double invigorate + exalted or invigorate + immense.
I like berserk. You sometimes will have perfect information. You play gitaxian probe. Against fast combo, you may need to go all in and try to be faster. It also acts as a mini pump spell; converting 2 to 4 with hierarch is relevant.

poxy14
03-02-2015, 08:27 PM
@deckerator: for variance, if u think youre already loaded up on red hate..try inserting a needle or 2 if u are planning to drop karakas..it's really helpful and can stop annoying things like mazes..wastes..forgemasters..sensei..griselbrand..sneak attack..grim lava..lotv and other pw... i win games via gprobes and needles too by just seeing same fetches..i"ll name fetch! try it.

@echofish..berserk is just way too good for this deck..u can chain berserks if u are on a manual mode without any pump...i once killed an attacking canonist by beserking it and blasted my way on my turn..with lots of cheap flyers around like delvers, avengers, cliqs, affinity flyers..strix, i consider blighteds as our only creature with evade..if become immense wasnt printed i might be sporting 3 main...before khans i have 1 more in the sb to battle combo.. coz i want to draw em fast on the early turns. berserk is just way too impt in this deck.

poxy14
03-02-2015, 08:41 PM
The 3 vines config.

lately it's been doin wonders for me dropping 1 copy of this very impt spell.. i consider this a counterspell for removal and a pump spell vs fair.. i boarded em out on every matchup vs combo..pumping crits with vines and spending that 1 impt open mana is inviting trouble if it's countered. so i really seldom use them unless ofcourse with a probe lead to blast away viruses. though in a heavy bug/rug/ burn meta this shld be 4.

Gabuts007
03-02-2015, 08:44 PM
The 3 vines config.

lately it's been doin wonders for me dropping 1 copy of this very impt spell.. i consider this a counterspell for removal and a pump spell vs fair.. i boarded em out on every matchup vs combo..pumping crits with vines and spending that 1 impt open mana is inviting trouble if it's countered. so i really seldom use them unless ofcourse with a probe lead to blast away viruses. though in a heavy bug/rug/ burn meta this shld be 4.

THE CHAMP IS HERE!!! :tongue:

poxy14
03-02-2015, 10:23 PM
@gabuts007: thanks man! i was so frustrated losing game1 in the finals..short of just 1 pump on a perfect probe with the snt player having no counterspell..im real glad i made it through for our split prize haha! grats on making it to the top8 too with darkmav!

Bosaapje
03-03-2015, 06:13 AM
How many Become Immenses can the deck support? I haven't been testing a lot lately but I was thinking of running more Become Immenses than 1 to make a quick aggro deck instead of a more controllish build. I think the max is 2 but did someone try more than 2?

Deckerator
03-03-2015, 06:27 AM
I found the following sideboard tech at the first page last year.
Is this the way we should board? Instead of boarding out stifle, what would you board out?

UR Delver

+1 Krosan Grip (I bring this in for Blood Moon and go up to 2 if I see it. Also good against Needle)
+1 Spellskite
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Flusterstorm

-3 Force of Will
-2 Crop Rotation
-1 Glistener Elf


RUG Delver

+1 Krosan Grip (I bring this in for Blood Moon and go up to 2 if I see it. Also good against Needle)
+2 Submerge
+1 Spellskite
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Flusterstorm

-3 Force of Will
-2 Crop Rotation
-1 Glistener Elf
-1 Ponder


BUG Delver

+2 Submerge
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Sylvan Library

-1 Crop Rotation
-3 Force of Will

UWR Delver

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Spellskite
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Flusterstorm

-3 Force of Will
-2 Crop Rotation
-1 Ponder
-1 Gitaxian Probe

UWR Miracles

+2 Krosan Grip
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Sylvan Library

-3 Daze
-1 Ponder
-1 Force of Will

Elves

+2 Submerge
+2 Grafdiggers Cage
+1 Force of Will

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Crop Rotation


Sneak and Show

+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Force of Will
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Flusterstorm

-2 Crop Rotation
-1 Ponder
-2 Vines of Vastwood


Burn

+1 Force of Will
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Spellskite

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Stifle

Infect

+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Spellskite
+1 Nature's Claim

-3 Force of Will (on play)
-3 Daze (on draw)

Lands

+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Krosan Grip (side the 3rd if you see Chalice or Sphere)
+1 Karakas
+1 Bojuka Bog
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Force of Will
+1 Submerge (on draw)

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-3 Daze
-1 Spell Pierce (on draw)

Death and Taxes

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Karakas
+1 Sylvan Library

on play
-3 Force of Will
-2 Gitaxian Probe

on draw
-3 Daze
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Force of Will

Deathblade

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Sylvan Library

-2 Crop Rotation
-2 Force of Will

Esper Stoneblade

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Sylvan Library

-2 Crop Rotation
-2 Force of Will

Shardless BUG

+2 Submerge
+1 Sylvan Library

-3 Force of Will

ANT

+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Force of Will
+1 Flusterstorm
+2 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Bojuka Bog

-4 Inkmoth Nexus
-3 Vines of Vastwood

Belcher

+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Force of Will
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Spellskite

-2 Crop Rotation
-3 Gitaxian Probe

Dredge

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Bojuka Bog
+2 Grafdigger's Cage

on play
-3 Force of Will
-1 Stifle
-2 Daze

on draw
-3 Daze
-1 Stifle
-2 Force of Will

Merfolk

+2 Krosan Grip (if you think they have Jitte)

on play
-1 Stifle
-1 Force of Will
on draw
-1 Stifle
-1 Daze

OmniTell

+1 Force of Will
+1 Flusterstorm

-2 Crop Rotation

Jund

+1 Bojuka Bog (if Punishing Fire)
+1 Spellskite
+1 Blue Elemental Blast (if Bloodbraid Elf)
+1 Sylvan Library
+2 Submerge

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-3 Force of Will

Imperial Painter

+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Force of Will

on play
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Crop Rotation
-1 Daze

on draw
-3 Daze
-2 Crop Rotation
-1 Gitaxian Probe

Reanimator

+1 Force of Will
+1 Flusterstorm
+2 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Bojuka Bog
+1 Karakas

-4 Inkmoth Nexus
-1 Ponder
-1 Vines of Vastwood

MUD

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Force of Will
+1 Bojuka Bog

-1 Stifle
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Vines of Vastwood

Nic Fit

+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Spellskite
+1 Sylvan Library
+2 Grafdigger's Cage
+2 Submerge
+1 Bojuka Bog

-3 Force of Will
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-3 Daze
-1 Ponder

Mono Black Pox

+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Krosan Grip

-1 Stifle
-3 Gitaxian Probe

Cybey
03-03-2015, 08:02 AM
If we mostly agree on the sideboarding listed above, I will add it to the primer.

aex
03-03-2015, 08:27 AM
I don't exactly like blue elemental blast against miracles. The rest of the mus I don't know well enough to comment.

Jesture
03-03-2015, 12:25 PM
I found the following sideboard tech at the first page last year.
Is this the way we should board? Instead of boarding out stifle, what would you board out?

Side boarding is difficult because Infect tends to be a pretty tight list with variability on maybe 5-6 cards at most between any given list. The only cards I would never side out are Invigorate, Berserk, and Brainstorm. Everything else can leave the deck in some matchup or another.

-The distinction between the play and the draw with this deck is pretty huge. Daze, Stifle, and Wasteland all become significantly worse on the draw, you'd only leave all three of these in post board against hard combo decks.
-Our Infect Threats all do different things. Think about what removal you're up against and consider boarding out based on whatever answers they bring in.
-Delve cards are strong, but they definitely come out against quicker matchups. The exception is if you're siding in another Crop Rotation, or if you're already playing 2 in the main.
-Force of Wills come out against fair decks.
-Invigorates always stay in. They're by and far the best pump spell in the deck, and go a long way to enabling the one shot kill.
-Berserks also stay in. Don't be afraid to use them on unflipped Delvers or low power Goyfs, your opponents can't win if they can't pressure your life total.
-Vines of Vastwood can come out against faster decks or decks without targetted removal.
-Stifle gets significantly worse if your opponent is playing around it. If your opponent sees it, it's almost always right to side it out in the following games (exception is against something like ANT).
-Crop Rotation has a lot of flexibility, but is a blowout if it doesn't resolve. Consider taking this out against counter-heavy decks.
-Gitaxian Probe isn't always useful. Think about the life versus the information when deciding to keep this in (Do you really need to know what spells Burn has in hand?)

Here's a couple of sideboard plans. For reference, my 75:

12 Creatures
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Glistener Elf
4x Blighted Agent

29 Non-Creature Spells
4x Invigorate
4x Vines of Vastwood
2x Berserk
1x Become Immense
1x Dig Through Time
1x Crop Rotation
1x Stifle
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
2x Spell Pierce
2x Force of Will
3x Gitaxian Probe

19 Lands
8x Green Fetchland
4x Tropical Island
1x Forest

4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Wasteland
1x Pendelhaven

Sideboard
2x Force of Will
2x Submerge
1x Piracy Charm
1x Divert
2x Krosan Grip
1x Nature's Claim
1x Sylvan Library
1x Crop Rotation
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Karakas
1x Pithing Needle
1x Spellskite

VS RUG:
On the Draw

Should come in
+2 Submerge
+1 Piracy Charm

Situationally comes in
+1 Divert (Ranges from a narrow Spell Pierce to a 2 for 1 on a removal spell and a threat)
+1 Spellskite (Are they bringing in Artifact Removal? Spellskite is huge food for Goyf, think hard before bringing it in)
+2 Krosan Grip (Blood Moon or Pithing Needles?)
+1 Bojuka Bog (Slows down both Goose and Goyf)
+1 Pithing Needle (Did you see a Lavamancer?)

Cards to side out
-2 FoW
-1 Crop Rotation (Bad against Wasteland deck with counter magic)
-1 Dig Through Time (Gets much worse in the face of Pyroblast and lack of Crop Rotation)
-1 Glistener Elf (Good luck connecting with those)
-4 Daze

VS BUG Delver:
On the draw

Should come in
+2 Submerge
+1 Divert
+1 Sylvan Library

Situationally comes in
+1 Spellskite (Makes Goyf bigger, but it's better against Disfigure than Bolt)
+1 Piracy Charm (For Dark Confidant)

Cards to side out
-2 FoW
-4 Daze (Especially bad against Deathrite Shaman)

VS Miracles:
On the draw

Should come in
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Piracy Charm (Peacekeeper feels bad. Also gets to hit Snapcaster and Clique. Also the dream of Piracy Charm in response to Miracle trigger with one card in hand.)
+2 Force of Will (Miracles has a couple of high impact cards we need to stop, but the rest of the deck is pretty easy to deal with. As such, the card disadvantage from Force of Will hurts us less in this matchup.)

Situationally comes in
+1 Submerge (Peacekeeper feels bad. Do what you have to do to keep it off the field.)

Cards to side out
-1 Crop Rotation
-3 Daze (Personal preference, I like this configuration because Daze has the upside of occasionally getting around CounterTop, while Spell Pierce almost never will. Also, very few people expect the Daze, and a singleton is easy enough to shuffle away with Brainstorm.)
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Wasteland

Situationally comes out
-1 Blighted Agent (If you know they're playing Pyroblast effects, one of these guys can come out of the deck. The unblockable isn't as relevant in this matchup.

Sideboard strategies On the Play are just abbreviated versions of sideboard strategies On the Draw.
I may write up some more side boarding plans in the future, but this is exhausting and it's always going to be situational. There's no substitute for experience, so just play as many games as you can with the deck and test out what works best for you.

poxy14
03-04-2015, 12:56 AM
VS Miracles:
On the draw

Should come in
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Piracy Charm (Peacekeeper feels bad. Also gets to hit Snapcaster and Clique. Also the dream of Piracy Charm in response to Miracle trigger with one card in hand.)
+2 Force of Will (Miracles has a couple of high impact cards we need to stop, but the rest of the deck is pretty easy to deal with. As such, the card disadvantage from Force of Will hurts us less in this matchup.)

Situationally comes in
+1 Submerge (Peacekeeper feels bad. Do what you have to do to keep it off the field.)

Unless the MIRACLE player is carrying a trops in his deck, and that's very unlikely.. this is where i would want to insert something like a DISMEMBER, VAPOR SNAG or a REALITY RIPPLE (though just on a brief effect) comes in. Ive had success too in sideboarding SURGICALS vs MIRACLES, since it can hit stuffs like stp, brainstorms, terminus. I dont board out FOWS since its still very valuable midgame even on losing 1 card.. dazes shld all go, i even board out vines...if he stps, i'll just pierce it...pierce provides defense vs both stp and terminus and spells like counterbalances/explosives/early senseis/jtms more often so than dazes/vines., but i do agree with you, everything is SITUATIONAL and meta gaming is a big key here, having the right helpers game 2 and 3 can bring W's!

Neffy
03-04-2015, 02:57 AM
Played at my LGS last night. Heres a quick walkthrough from my notes.

MUD 1-2
This matchup is fine if he just dont have trini or an early chalice on 1.
He does though and win game one.
G2 I get him on turn 2 with top deck berserk on elf or something.
G3 goes way too long and he has too much stuff. I draw only lands and lose.

D&T - 2-0
G1 Take the chance and keep 0 land hand with 2 probes OTD (riskyy vs D&T...)
Him: He went plains, vial.
Me: Draw = no land, probe 1= no land, probe 2=no land... discard, go
Him: No land, vial on 1
Me: Land (pwew!), BS, see more lands.
Him: No land, vial on 2, play second vial.
Me: play blighted agent and noble
Him: No land, Vial on 3 and 1. Probe showed 2 flickerwisps in hand..
Me: Noble. attack with agent. He flickers it.
Him: No land (woot?!). perhaps vial up to 2. still one on three.
Me:Attack agent, he flickers.
Him: Land, SFM from vial EOT. Jitte
Me: Attack with unblockable agent with vines and invigorate backup. No flickerwisp from him. I Win.

G2
He goes waste, vial, go.
I go trop, claim on his vial, go.
No land drop from him.
I land early dude and begins beats and he doesnt recover.

UR - 2-0
Low experienced young boy.
he has quick delver (that doesnt fliP) and dual swiftspears. I have glist + pendelhaven to fend him off.
Eventually i have inkmoth and kill him while flying high.

G2 I play around forked bolt and elecktrickery. His deck is very slow and never see a dude. I do though, and rides to
victory with vines and Become Immense in hand.

Elves - 2-1
We have a long game, meaning that he stabilizes and wins.
G2 he is more slow, and my submerge helps a lot. Agent for the beats.
G3 was 4realz. I attack him on 3 psn with nexus. He goes off with dudes but "only" manages to end his turn with Ruric Thar with reach and 6-damage-triggers for blocks.
I draw berserk to pair with my invigorate. Attack with dual noble trickers makes my inkmoth a power (1+2+4)x2=14 after blocks. Thar takes 6 and he takes 8 himself for 11 PSN. win.

D&T - 2-1
I keep risky hand with no blue mana and blue cards and pendel+forest.
I see no blue lands in many turns and he just builds up a board with mothers, SFM, and jitte. I lose brutally.

G2 I go trop, noble.
He goes plains, STP, which I daze.
I play trop, sylvan and pass.
He goes land, revoker on noble.
I draw some cards off of sylvan, play second trop, and go
He goes port which he activates in my upkeep. Sadly for him, I had Teferi's Response in response. In other words he taps a land, wastes own port, spend a turn for me to save my land and draw two cards. INSANE!
The game pretty much ends for him here due to all my card advantage. In the same turn i claim his revoker and play glist off of noble. Shortly after I win.
G3 was waste, vial, go.
I go land, noble i think. He draws no land and i waste his waste and drops infect dudes. He vials in Canonist and later a Thalia on 0 mana which means im safe from any STPs he might draw. I choose not to use my
krosan on any of them and takes out his vial on 2. Leaving him with vial 1, thalia, canonist. At this point my agent just keeps beating and wins me the game.

Elves - 2-1
I get him to 5 psn counters, but he eventually goes off with me having the next turn kill in hand (become immense).. awww..
G2 I turn 3 kill him easily.
G3 my hand is crop, trop, invi and some other stuff. He goes land, elf.
I draw a second invigorate and plays my trop. go.
He goes lands and two more elves. At this point im thinking that my only way to kill him turn two is if i top deck a third invigorate.
I draw for the turn: invigorate... Activate inkmoth with second land, triple invigorate. I Win. Dat feeling!

Very exciting games all of them. Total score 5-1, netting me a 2. place of 22. :)

Great posts on Sideboarding btw.

poxy14
03-04-2015, 03:42 AM
@neffy: amazing finish! goodjob! and the matchups are great (DnT and Elves)! MUD is a good matchup too! especially when we are on the play, aggresively mull for fow as u dont want them to connect their chalices, they dont interact well with creatures and even on chalice 1, we can go BERSERK without berserk via become immense and invigorates.. vines shld come out when sideboarding as it is easy dead on cotv 1. be careful too with forgemaster as it can fetch that hated platinum angel : )

one good way to fuel our double become immense (aside from tons of cantrips) is this...
ex. fetch to trops, sac trops via croprot, get fetch then fetch again : ) 4 cards in gy that fast!

Neffy
03-04-2015, 01:28 PM
one good way to fuel our double become immense (aside from tons of cantrips) is this...
ex. fetch to trops, sac trops via croprot, get fetch then fetch again : ) 4 cards in gy that fast!

Yeah that was my plan at one point against one of the elves players, but i could only get 4 in the yard and needed 5 and mana to activate my nexus. So i had to pass and get overrun by incredible large green men.. great combat trick indeed.

Jesture
03-04-2015, 10:02 PM
Congrats on second place, Neffy!


Unless the MIRACLE player is carrying a trops in his deck, and that's very unlikely.. this is where i would want to insert something like a DISMEMBER, VAPOR SNAG or a REALITY RIPPLE (though just on a brief effect) comes in. Ive had success too in sideboarding SURGICALS vs MIRACLES, since it can hit stuffs like stp, brainstorms, terminus. I dont board out FOWS since its still very valuable midgame even on losing 1 card.. dazes shld all go, i even board out vines...if he stps, i'll just pierce it...pierce provides defense vs both stp and terminus and spells like counterbalances/explosives/early senseis/jtms more often so than dazes/vines., but i do agree with you, everything is SITUATIONAL and meta gaming is a big key here, having the right helpers game 2 and 3 can bring W's!

Does Counterbalance not give you trouble? Vapor Snag (really, -1 life?), Spell Pierce, and Surgical Extraction are all 1 drops, making them difficult to resolve through Counterbalance. Also, Spell Pierce has almost no functionality outside the first 3-4 turns against Miracles, you rarely get to "just pierce it" anytime outside of the early game. I understand boarding out some number of Vines for these reasons, but it seems counter-intuitive to cut CMC 1 pump spells just to replace them with CMC 1 utility spells. Our matchup is favorable, but Miracles is a deck that only gets stronger as the game goes longer. In this regard, we'd rather have spells that speed up our clock over spells that prolong our loss.

poxy14
03-04-2015, 10:17 PM
Does Counterbalance not give you trouble? Vapor Snag (really, -1 life?), Spell Pierce, and Surgical Extraction are all 1 drops, making them difficult to resolve through Counterbalance. Also, Spell Pierce has almost no functionality outside the first 3-4 turns against Miracles, you rarely get to "just pierce it" anytime outside of the early game. I understand boarding out some number of Vines for these reasons, but it seems counter-intuitive to cut CMC 1 pump spells just to replace them with CMC 1 utility spells. Our matchup is favorable, but Miracles is a deck that only gets stronger as the game goes longer. In this regard, we'd rather have spells that speed up our clock over spells that prolong our loss.

Probably i got the boarding strategy from 2 of my teammates who plays miracles well, they told me upon discussion that they sideout some cbtoplock pieces anticipating krosans, and it does nothing vs inkmoth.. so they load up on removals. It's been very helpful to me to add pierces vs vines, though both at 1cc, pierce can function as fow fodder too midgame.

oh and what i mean bout the "DISMEMBER, VAPOR SNAG or a REALITY RIPPLE" is they have use vs any creature deck that doesnt carry forest, unlike submerge that is just useful vs bug/elves and have no use vs PEACEKEEPER in miracles.

Jesture
03-04-2015, 11:18 PM
Probably i got the boarding strategy from 2 of my teammates who plays miracles well, they told me upon discussion that they sideout some cbtoplock pieces anticipating krosans, and it does nothing vs inkmoth.. so they load up on removals. It's been very helpful to me to add pierces vs vines, though both at 1cc, pierce can function as fow fodder too midgame.

oh and what i mean bout the "DISMEMBER, VAPOR SNAG or a REALITY RIPPLE" is they have use vs any creature deck that doesnt carry forest, unlike submerge that is just useful vs bug/elves and have no use vs PEACEKEEPER in miracles.

I don't doubt that your friends are experienced Miracles players, but it doesn't seem like they're playing Peacekeepers in their Sideboards. If they're siding in removal and you're boarding out Vines, that probably means they're bringing in sweepers (Terminus, Supreme Verdict, Pyroclasm), which have very poor synergy with Peacekeeper.

Submerge is 5 CMC. Its use is to put Peacekeeper on top of the opponent's library while playing around Counterbalance. Granted it's not easy to hard cast, but against a deck like Miracles it's not too difficult to hit 5 mana. Submerge is strong enough against green decks to warrant multiple sideboard slots in my meta. That said, I wouldn't put it in my 75 with Miracles specifically in mind, it's just what I happen to have on hand that works for me in this matchup. I tend to not play Dismember, Vapor Snag, or Reality Ripple in the board because the first two are objectively bad cards in the deck and I just don't own a copy of the third to test with.

From your sideboard I get the feeling your meta doesn't play a lot of Peacekeeper, which is totally understandable. Postboard Miracles that play Peacekeeper bring him in along with extra counter magic to protect him while he's being cast. Once he hits, they don't ever use him to attack, they just top until they find Jace, then use Jace ultimate to win the game. While a traditional Miracles list might bring in more removal, a list with Peacekeeper would opt to play a faster game and bring in more counter magic. They don't bring in extra removal because they don't care about your creatures, they have a 3 mana card that wins them the game.

Let me know your thoughts on this, I'm curious to know what the Miracles lists look like in your meta.

poxy14
03-04-2015, 11:49 PM
Let me know your thoughts on this, I'm curious to know what the Miracles lists look like in your meta.

So far i havent faced any PEACEKEEPER from both of them yet, though 1 pilot has a sideboard on it and the other one doesnt. And i've had battles too with other pilots and i dont see them very often, i mean peacekeepers. I guess most of the MIRACLES pilots here tend to carry other sb help instead of the white creature. Well, if in case it shows up alot, i might have to bring in dismember or reality ripple to my sideboards again. I agree with you that submerge is castable vs this wasteland-less grindy matchup, but by the time we have 5 manas already to cast it, we are making ourselves weak vs opposing pierces.


Postboard Miracles that play Peacekeeper bring him in along with extra counter magic to protect him while he's being cast. Once he hits, they don't ever use him to attack, they just top until they find Jace, then use Jace ultimate to win the game. While a traditional Miracles list might bring in more removal, a list with Peacekeeper would opt to play a faster game and bring in more counter magic. They don't bring in extra removal because they don't care about your creatures, they have a 3 mana card that wins them the game.

very good point!

MUD can also bring out PLATINUM ANGEL, a much problematic card since it can serve a clock too, but then again by carrying artifact hate we have options vs this, not unlike PEACEKEEPER that is hard to beat once resolved vs us.

here’s how i board out vs miracles

- 3 vines (counterspells can save us both from spot removal, mass removals (except Sverdict), artifacts, enchantments and planewalkers)
- 3 dazes (miracles are land heavy, not much of an effect vs them)
- 2 nobles (will only be on the bottom too on a resolved terminus)
- 1 ponder (slot i often use to insert in sylvan)
- 1 probe

+ 3 counterspells (fow, negate, pierce)
+ 1 sylvan lib. (abuse it here!)
+ 1 krosan grip / + 1 naturalize
+ 2 pithing needles (i always take note of enemy fetches too during games, probes + needle are very good combo)
+ 2 surgicals (blanks snapcasters, provides info too and i love hitting early brainstorms vs this deck!)

Neffy
03-05-2015, 03:07 AM
I dont either like the idea of boarding a 5CMC Submerge in against miracles. It seems just for lolz and if you hit five lands at some point, they at least have four and that is often too late for us.

I really like the idea of surgicals vs miracles. I've been adding 2 to my board lately, but havent faced any miracle players, but I recon that it can be quite advantageous if you snap their STPs or Termini.
Is vines really that bad? It doesnt take care of counterbalance or terminus, sure. But it does blank 4/8 removal spells they have (not counting supreme verdict as you should not allow them to get to 4 mana).

I board a singleton piracy charm that can take care of peacekeepers, but thats it. Never faced one, tho...

poxy14
03-05-2015, 04:03 AM
Is vines really that bad? It doesnt take care of counterbalance or terminus, sure. But it does blank 4/8 removal spells they have (not counting supreme verdict as you should not allow them to get to 4 mana).

VINES, vs MIRACLES in inviting a 2 for 1, i paid the price of over committing my pumps, trying to avoid longer games, going all-in several times and then he just draws into terminus. sure it does protect our clock, but same goes with pierces and other counters we have.. the issue with vines vs miracles is that we have better options for this that can deal with other hurtful things like terminus, entreat, jace, ee, cbtoplock.. and that’s why i run a 2 becomme immense config., as it avoids cbtoplock and makes us still explosive even when we drop vines.

M+1
03-05-2015, 04:17 AM
Once he hits, they don't ever use him to attack
He can't attack ;-)

jimirynk
03-09-2015, 02:35 AM
Does anyone have Tom Rosses most updated list?

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
03-09-2015, 03:23 AM
Hi everyone, been playing infect for around a year or so now in both modern and legacy, just wanted to know what your thoughts are on breading pools vs tropical islands in legacy. I personally find that they do not matter too much in most match-ups as the two life isn't a very big deal when I only need to hit them for ten. I have noticed that Delver decks and Burn they are not very good to have. What are your thoughts?

(yes, i do know bouncing breading pool with daze is very good)

datanaga
03-09-2015, 09:25 AM
Hi everyone, been playing infect for around a year or so now in both modern and legacy, just wanted to know what your thoughts are on breading pools vs tropical islands in legacy. I personally find that they do not matter too much in most match-ups as the two life isn't a very big deal when I only need to hit them for ten. I have noticed that Delver decks and Burn they are not very good to have. What are your thoughts?

(yes, i do know bouncing breading pool with daze is very good)

If your plan is to play full playset of breeding pools, I can't recommend it, because you can't afford to play tap lands and you will usually fetch at least for 2 duals every game and play at least one daze, so it is about -6 life total EVERY game, this is huge for deck with minimum ways to protect his life totals and you will loose games against aggresive decks because of it. Your fetches and probes already cost you life points.

EDIT: if you have been playing infect in legacy for around one year now, you should know very well how pools works for you:) at serious tournament i still can not imagine playing pools instead of tropicals.

SaberTooth
03-09-2015, 09:57 AM
Played yesterday in a 61 person tournament and made top 8 (we splited the prices) beat death and taxes, affinity, ur delver and 4 color delver, the deck was a blast. i had a little luck but well, you cant win in magic without a little bit of it

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
03-09-2015, 05:35 PM
If your plan is to play full playset of breeding pools, I can't recommend it, because you can't afford to play tap lands and you will usually fetch at least for 2 duals every game and play at least one daze, so it is about -6 life total EVERY game, this is huge for deck with minimum ways to protect his life totals and you will loose games against aggresive decks because of it. Your fetches and probes already cost you life points.

EDIT: if you have been playing infect in legacy for around one year now, you should know very well how pools works for you:) at serious tournament i still can not imagine playing pools instead of tropicals.

yes, i do understand that which is why I felt that going with shocks can make delver and burn a must worse match-up since I sometimes have to bolt myself in order to play a brainstorm or a line in that stead.

However, last saturday I went 5-0-1 at a shop in connecticut coming in first place using breading pools. match-ups were post, D&T, post, mirror, omnisciene, ID rw painter

Deckerator
03-09-2015, 06:34 PM
I am going to play a small tournament with infect this friday using 3 Trops and 1 Breeding Pool. Lets see how it works ;)

Congratz to both of you for your finishes. Maybe you can give us a small report? I would be interested in it ;)

datanaga
03-09-2015, 08:50 PM
However, last saturday I went 5-0-1 at a shop in connecticut coming in first place using breading pools. match-ups were post, D&T, post, mirror, omnisciene, ID rw painter

Congrats on your finish, I must agree that in meta like this is OK to play pools over trops, becasue life total doesn't matter at all:)

poxy14
03-09-2015, 09:13 PM
@dark reckoning and sabertooth: congrats on another amazing finish for us, TEAM INFECT : ) i'll wait for decklists and short reports on your matchups, thanks!

regarding breeding pool and trops... if on a budget, it's understandable to play pools, but if we can hit trops, then it's the top of line land we need to carry. though we really are not concerned bout our own life, sometimes the 2 damage matters, or even the fetches and probes makes a huge difference in some match-ups... i would recall surviving an emrakul attack once, i have double probes and short of pumps still with my blighted, i probed, paid 2 life, sees the combo coming...on my second probe i did however paid mana so somehow even with 15damage (i have lots of permanents that game) i would still survive the attack and kill him nextturn..

and by carrying pools, you really dont want to be paired with any delver/red decks...coz it's gonna be real fast.

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
03-09-2015, 11:39 PM
hey thanks :)

went to another local today and went 2-0-1 Id the last rd so we would have each received better prize support. match-ups high tide(fairy engine), elves, and rw painter. i still ran shocks at this event but had 1 tropical island since i won it at the other event on saturday.

SaberTooth
03-10-2015, 10:58 AM
@dark reckoning and sabertooth: congrats on another amazing finish for us, TEAM INFECT : ) i'll wait for decklists and short reports on your matchups, thanks!


i dont remember all the details but here we go

r1: death and taxes/2-1

G1: was easy, really. he didnt drew removals for my creatures, and a blighted agent plus invigorate gave me the game
g2: i lost this game because i played to scared of removal, i destroyed a jitte with krosan grip that gavge me an edge, but i waited till the last turn to deploy my pump spells and a vialed flickerwisp ruined my plans, i should try to kill him the turn before the val ticked to 3. I suppose that this error came because this is the first time i play infect in legacy and i didnt play the format for a long time
g3: a really cool game (for me). He kept a hand with one land, one mother of runes and 2 sword to plowshares (and random cards i suppose), i kept a hand with 1 land and 3 creatures XD, and drew the 3 glistener elf, so he could not recover, even drawing the 3th sword (i dazed it). I drew the second land and it was over

r2: Affinity/2-0

G1: I play a noble hierarch with a pendelhaven. he plays stoneforge mystic on turn 1 searching for jitte (-.-), a thpter and a skirge. on turn 2 i play a G-elf and a ponder that shows me the only berserk that i borrowed from a friend, keeping mana open for a vines if he tries to equip. He plays a master of etherium and pass. I play a land and pass. He plays a second master and attacks. No blocks. He didnt drew the mana source to play and equip the jitte. On my turn,i pump with pendle and attack with exalted, he blocks with his 7/7 master, i play invigorate, vines with kicker and berserk, swinging for 22 e.e
g2: i needle his tezzeret. and wait until he attacks with plating to kill the creature with natures claim, the nexus+invigorate+become inmense gave me the game

r3: Ur delver/2-1

Difficult match up: i dont remember a lot of this games. G1 was nexus + invigorate + berserk + some pendel and exalted that gave me the game. I was happy with how i played the game, because his delver showed a price of progress when flipped, so i played in a way that his price dealt me 8 dmg, leaving me in 1 life :D. even i had to fight with dazes over a young pyromancer to bite his counters. That fow that he used to save his pyro gave me the game (that kind of jedi mind tricks is what i love in combo decks)
G2: he plays lavamancer..... even with that play, i manage to deal 9 poison, but is not enough
G3: i kept a questionable 6-cards hand: 2 nexus, 1 spellskite, invigorate and a coulpe of infect creatures, but my reasoning was that even if the lands come to late, i have the kite to protect my nexus (what would you do?). Turns out that he forced my spellskite and now im in trouble, because i didnt drew a land for 4 or 5 turns. i drew the tropical and play and elf that is killed by electrickery ( :O). He attacks and im dead next turn because i know that he has a lightning bolt in hand, but tom ross helped this time ( XD) i drew another invigorate to a total of 3!! in my hand. It's now or never. I converted nexus and attacked. He declares no blocks and i invigorate my nexus. He bolts in response, i invigorate in response. He thinks a bit and brainstorms, then bolts my nexus in response, and i slam the 3th invigorate on the table 4 the win!! my friends told me that my deck sometimes is just stupid, and i agree haha

R4: 4 color delver: the last round, and a difficult match i guess/2-1
g1: he says that he is afraid because he didnt tested the match. Me neither, but i didnt said anything. im confident with my infect skills. I dont remember a lot, but i grinded him with an agent
g2: a well played flusterstorm on a vines gave him the game
g3: my hand is a little bad but anyway. I attacked with a nexus with exalted and he bolted it, i invigorate to deal 6 dmg. The folowing turn im probably dead, but i topdecked a become inmense to seal the deal

My list (feel free to say something about this, i finded it pretty good)

4 glistener elf
4 blighted agent
4 noble hierarch

2 become inmense
1 berserk
4 invigorate
3 force of will
4 daze
1 crop rotation
1 spell pierce
4 brainstorm
4 vines of vastwood

1 ponder
3 gitaxian probe

4 inkmoth nexus
3 misty rainforest
2 verdant catacombs
3 windswept heath
1 forest
1 wasteland
4 tropical island
2 pendelhaven

Sideboard

1 spellskite
1 spell pierce
1 dispel
1 wasteland
1 bojuka bog
2 nature's claim
2 krosan grip
2 surgical extraction
1 sylvan library
1 force of will
1 grafdigger's cage

just 1 berserk was not a problem, the 2 become inmense were great, i sided out my force of wills in all my matchups, but i think that this is because i didnt face combo decks. The deck performed awesome, and i had the luck that sometimes we need to take a little advantage over theother players. Again, feel free to discuss. This is te first time that i played the archetype in legacy (i have the modern version), so maybe something is wrong, and sorry for my english

i dont know how to link the cards

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
03-10-2015, 04:41 PM
@dark reckoning and sabertooth: congrats on another amazing finish for us, TEAM INFECT : ) i'll wait for decklists and short reports on your matchups, thanks!

ok so for the saturday event i sleeved up the following:

4x blight agent
4x glistener elf
4x noble hierarch

2x become immense
2x berserk
4x brainstorm
1x crop rotation
3x daze
3x force of will
4x invigorate
2x spell pierce
3x vines of vastwood

1x distortion strike
3x gitaxian probe

1x dryad arbor
1x forest
4x breading pool
4x inkmoth nexus
1x pendalhaven
1x wasteland
4x windswepth heath
4x wooded foothills

sb
1x necropede
1x spellskite
1x virdian corrupter
1x sylvan library
1x crop rotation
2x hyrdoblast
2x krosan grip
1x pact of negation
1x piracy charm
2x spell pierce
1x bojuka bog

i dont really remember how the games went but i can give the overall match record of each.
rd1: post 2-1, rd2: D&T 2-0, rd3: post 2-0, rd4: ug infect 2-0, rd5: omniscience 2-0, rd6: rw painter id

poxy14
03-10-2015, 09:30 PM
thanks for the reports and lists you've shared guys!

@reckoning: are there lots of liliana in your meta? i saw 1 dryad arbor still in your list.. the card seems too slow for me especially when u draw it, u just want to shuffle it away via brainstorm.. unless im carrying a sideboard of 3 natural orders/1 progenitus...that's the only time i would include it back in the main.

i would also try to diversify my artifact/enchantment hate, vs a good MUD player, he can just simply set cotv to 3 to lock you down on your grips, corrupter and invigorates too.. a resolved thalia will make our grips 4cc spell too. corrupter is kinda slow too (on my experience) vs lots of things and is useless vs bloodmoon. infect is a tempo deck that needs one good opening to execute the W.. i love it when opponents spend their manas trying to equip and then we're just gonna blow up the artifact, TIMEWALK baby!

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
03-11-2015, 12:35 AM
i like to have the option of killing someone with base damage. i have noticed some people just tend to not care how much life they have than a simple dyrad arbor fetch with distortion strike can kill them. Also, one of my good friends play Jund and there is a decent amount of BUG where I play.

I see your point on viridian corrupter than a single nature's claim may be the better move vs mud in such, but normally in those games if chalice is not on one i still have become immense and vines to go for the kill.

poxy14
03-11-2015, 11:01 PM
hey guys, what are your thoughts on BEAST WITHIN? i might try 1-2 in the board this weekend..
i love its application vs permanents we hate like maze ith, oppossing flyers, wastelands, pithing needle on inkmoth, elesh norn, bloodmoon especially magus of the moon etc..

but i havent tested it yet..

SaberTooth
03-12-2015, 10:01 AM
i thought about it too, but my opinion about BW is the same as Swan song, i just dont like giving them a blocker

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
03-12-2015, 12:52 PM
a 3/3 body is hugh, if you dont have a way to get around it and will be blocking you for days. also adding to your opponents board i feel isn't very good.

poxy14
03-12-2015, 09:14 PM
glistener is good vs combo, midgame vs midrange it gets worse... with tons of flyers around (delver, strix, cliq, wisps...) i would consider blighted as our only creature with evade.. and i would rather see an oppossing goyf compared to a baleful strix, a 3/3 token vs an entreat token with this deck, so a 3/3 grounder shouldnt be an issue for me.. well, i'll try playtesting 1-2 BW in the sides when i have time, i'll keep u guys posted...

Deckerator
03-14-2015, 07:16 AM
Played a small 4 rounds tiurnament with U/GInfect yesterday. Luck wasnt on my side so i ended on friday 13 with 1-3.^^
First round: bye

The second round was against BWG with Knight, Rhino, Thalia and Marit Lage combo. The first match i get slowed down by thalia and killed by a 20/20 Marit Lage. My infecters get sworded and decayed. He played both 4 times. I thought he had much removal in our first match but the second match was much harder. He boarded to his 4 Decays, 4 swords some numbers of Toxic Deluge and Golgari Charm^^.
The second match i had to go for the kill in my last round because he has the Marit Lage for the next round. I go with Glistener Elf pumped with Haven. He blocks with knight and pumped him. I go for Become immense, and double Berserk. Then his abrupt Decay killed my elf. No vines in hand...
Had no other chance than all in.

Third round was against ANT. I lost 0:2 . He went for the kill before i could.
In the fourth round I lost to burn 1:2 because i couldnt find another green source to kicker vines and go for the kill. Had only 1 trop and i think all of my inkmoth drawn. Eidolon and his burn spell gave me the rest. Boarded 2x Spellskite, 2x Hydroblast and did not find any of them in both sideboard matches :/

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
03-15-2015, 09:42 AM
Went 6-3 yesterday at the eternal extravaganza in pa. Had a total of 320 players. Came in 65th.

The Spanish Tunnel King
03-16-2015, 10:13 AM
Hey guys. I'm having fun playing some infect recently and im on 19 land. I'd like to have a test with the 20 lands (I guess with the intention of situationally boarding the 20th out in certain matchups. My current (extremely orthodox) config is:

4 Tropical island
1 Wasteland
4 Inkmoth nexus
1 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
8 Green fetches

(2 crop rotation)
(8 cantrips)

What would people recommend for the last land? Im torn between an extra waste (I view the deck as tempo/combo, and so it fits in nicely to how I play but doesn't make the 3rd green which you sometimes need for a kill), an extra pendelhaven (I love this card - I crop rotate for it a lot, and so would make sense to just play more...), the basic island (Not so necessary, I agree, but I REALLY hate bloodmoons), A possible savannah for white board options (RIP, upgrade SB removal to swords) or a straight up breeding pool. What are the thoughts from the community?

The Spanish Tunnel King.

datanaga
03-16-2015, 10:23 AM
It depends on your pump spell setup, if you are playing 2x become immense or 1x become immense and 1x dig throught time 9th fetchland is OK imho.

EDIT: Im not big fan of wasteland in this deck and I definitely wouldn't play two in MD, our deck is green mana hungry on combo turn, but waste is needed in some certains matchup (lands, punishing jund), so it is OK to play one in our 75.

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
03-16-2015, 02:19 PM
Hey guys. I'm having fun playing some infect recently and im on 19 land. I'd like to have a test with the 20 lands (I guess with the intention of situationally boarding the 20th out in certain matchups. My current (extremely orthodox) config is:

4 Tropical island
1 Wasteland
4 Inkmoth nexus
1 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
8 Green fetches

(2 crop rotation)
(8 cantrips)

What would people recommend for the last land? Im torn between an extra waste (I view the deck as tempo/combo, and so it fits in nicely to how I play but doesn't make the 3rd green which you sometimes need for a kill), an extra pendelhaven (I love this card - I crop rotate for it a lot, and so would make sense to just play more...), the basic island (Not so necessary, I agree, but I REALLY hate bloodmoons), A possible savannah for white board options (RIP, upgrade SB removal to swords) or a straight up breeding pool. What are the thoughts from the community?

The Spanish Tunnel King.

i like running a dyrad arbor. it give the deck a second win condition vs people who openly play thoughtseize and dark confidants. However, in some match-ups having two wastelands is very good especially the mirror if you are able to land a creature 1st.

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
03-16-2015, 02:56 PM
my report on external extravaganza two.

here the the list i sleeved up for the event:

4x blight agent
4x glistener elf
4x noble hierarch

2x become immense
2x berserk
4x brainstorm
1x crop rotation
3x daze
3x force of will
4x invigorate
2x spell pierce
3x vines of vastwood

1x distortion strike
3x gitaxian probe

1x dryad arbor
1x forest
4x inkmoth nexus
1x pendalhaven
4x tropical island
1x wasteland
4x windswepth heath
4x wooded foothills

sb
1x necropede
1x spellskite
1x virdian corrupter
1x sylvan library
1x crop rotation
1x surgical extraction
1x nature's claim
2x krosan grip
1x pact of negation
1x piracy charm
2x spell pierce
1x bojuka bog

I was able to barrow three tropical islands from my friends as to not have to use breading pools. I made a small sideboard change since my last event as I heard lands was going to be heavily play and it was with the surgical extraction and nature's claim.

There ended up being 317 players which accounted for 9 rounds of swiss than a top 16 playoff.

RD 1: Miracles: (0-0)
Games 1: I never saw the counter top combo and he had main board true-name so I thought he was UW Blade. Killed turn 3.
Games 2: He goes t-1 top, t-3 counterbalance but it was too late as I had already put 8 posion on him and killed next turn.
(1-0)

RD 2: Death and Taxes: (1-0)
Don't recall much of game one and two besides him taking one and me two.
Game 3: i probe him and 2x plows and a thalia, to my 2x vines. I force his t-2 thalia and than he rips another off the top. he continues with perfect tops and win.
(1-1)

RD 3: RW Prison (1-1)
same pretty much here with game one but game two I lead glistener elf force chalice on one than t-2 kill.
Game 3: looking back I should have won but completely misread krosian grip and thought it said can't be countered. This allowed him to use batterskull to beat me when he was down to 5 and me beating him down with hierachs.
(1-2)

RD 4: UG Infect (1-2)
sadly each game was won by who ever landed blighted agent his and he won the die roll. lost (1-2)
(1-3)

RD 5: RW Painter (1-3)
had to play a friend in this round which was horrible for the both of us. In are testing I normally won game one and him two and three. However, this time he won game one and I won games two and three which for us was kind of funny.
(2-3)

RD 6: BUG Delver (2-3)
Game 1: He mulled to 5 and I went for the turn three kill after he only had one card left to hand and got there.
Game 2: When I went for the kill I knew he hand FOW and a daze in had and he had six mana up, and I tapped out to go for the kill with only a pact back up. He forced my first copy of invigorate pitching the daze instead of hard casting it. I pact it and than used my second invigorate for the kill.
(3-3)

RD 7: Death and taxes (3-3)
Game 1: landed a first turn glistener elf and he went land pass, played a hierach attack for 2, forced his stoneforge than went for game.
Game 2: did have the force for his thaila and he had double swords to plow shares I conceded after he wasted both of my lands.
Game 3: opened up trop, glistener, daze, brainstorm, force of will, invigorate, berserk. killed him turn two.
(4-3)

RD 8: UR Delver (4-3)
Don't remember a lot here besides some stealing my pen and at the end of the games him saying he would forget to use my pen to write of my fetches. I won in 3.
(5-3)

RD 9: Elves (5-3)
at this point we were fighting to make top 64 and end up getting something out of the event for the winner and loser nothing.
Game 1: Didn't have the force fore his natural order turn 3 and died.
Game 2: he boards only 3 cards, and decays one of my creatures. I quickly surgicalled it and played another creature. game ended next turn.
Game 3: this was a really fun game and got super close in the end. My opponent attacked me with all his guys and next turn i put him to 8 infect with blighted agent. I could tell my opponent had hoof in hand as he kept counting mana on his text turn he had 7. His three nettle sentinels were still tapped from his land turn. he than attacked with what he had a pasted. I untapped killed him. he showed me his two card hand of glimpse and hoof. he could have cast and the gimpse untapped his three sentinels and killed me. i guy was cool and the games were fun.
(6-3)

At the end of swiss standing came up and I was the lone 18 point player to not make top 64 coming in 65 since the people who beat me ending up dropping. In the end it was a fun day and who knew how it could have gone if I only gripped in round 2.

echofish
03-16-2015, 06:10 PM
Tom Ross made 16th place this weekend: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=81087

Neffy
03-17-2015, 06:12 AM
Congratz Dark-reckoning on the results.
You made a nice comback i must say.

Im really interested in the Pact you run. Do you think it was worth it (i know it won you a game at least)?
Seems strong when you want to end the game NOW, but otherwise seems like a dead card draw?

ryanghall
03-17-2015, 10:32 PM
I played a Legacy tournament at GP Cleveland this weekend and ran Infect. I basically used Ross' list, except I had a 2nd spell pierce rather than a Dig.

In round one, I played against an experienced player running Omni Tell. I lost game one, in game 2 he hit me with Emrakul, putting me to 2 and leaving me with Blighted Agent as my only permanent. Fortunately, he was at 1 and I won, and won game 3 (1-0)

Round 2 I beat Elves in 3 to go to 2-0

Round 3 I beat Elves again, this time in 2 thanks to a play mistake by my opponent to go to 3-0

Round 4 I played against a BRU Gorger deck and lost in 2. I felt it should be a decent matchup but it just didn't happen. I had no clue how to SB against this matchup. 3-1

Round 5 I played against Omni Tell again. I lost in 3 very close games.

Round 6 I played against the mirror and won in 2. He blew his load on 3 pump spells and then I submerged his creature game 2. 4-2

Round 7 I played against OmniTell (with a red splash) and still had an outside shot at top 4. I lost in 2, though. A disappointing 4-3 record. There were a lot of Miracles decks but I never got to play one.

What is the recommended sideboarding for OmniTell if we, say, use Ross' latest version?

poxy14
03-17-2015, 10:42 PM
You made a nice comback i must say. Seems strong when you want to end the game NOW, but otherwise seems like a dead card draw?

+1, i would rather use flusterstorm or an extra pierce that i can use anytime of the game.
grats on your amazing finish DARKRECKONING! especially that win vs bug

@ryanghall: ive had lots of success vs OMNITELL, probably because i was on a 3 vines/2 become immense built, which is best suited for a combo field meta.. upon sideboarding, i carry additionals pierces, fluster and inserts in surgical to hit their cantrips so to stall their development and make our pierces/daze work..omnitell is a 1 click 1 hit deck, if they assemble their pieces right, it's over..but vs us, they too a facing a 1 hit deck too.

i remember vs one of my matchups in the semis vs omnitell, i probed and saw dtt/2 flusters in my opponents hand.. i fired off all my pumps every turn just to let him use his flusters, then when he dtt'ed that's the time i used my permissions back. Decks that carry DTT are hard to beat when the games go longer, surely they will connect with their combo once they hit DTT, if these decks are prevalent in the meta, i might carry back a relic of progenitus just to stop or stall them from delving.

here's my list that beat omnitell in the semis, and SnT in the finals...
http://www.mtgmanila.com/cerberus-legacy-open-10-metagame-report-and-decklists/

and the video of game3 of the finals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzRl3VDy2BY

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
03-18-2015, 05:41 PM
with pact of negation it comes down to me not having the a 4th force of will or flusterstorm. however, there were many times where I went for game with a force of will and pact back-up. Also, in one game I cast pact paid for it over the weekend but ending up losing that game.

poxy14
03-21-2015, 11:24 AM
3-0'ed a mini 12man tourney today and came in 1st place for some store credits.. the meta was bug full..yet i wasnt able to face any of em. matchups were..

(2-0) ug cloudpost
he mulled to 5 game 1 and that was an easy win for me..game 2 wherein i probed and saw 1 fetch to complete a primeval titan..good thing i had a needle and stalled his 6th mana until i was able to put him to lethal with inkmoth..

(2-1) reanimator
carrying 2 become immense was key vs this kind of matchups as i can always pump for lethal with 1 green.. i lost game 2 even on 2 counterspells early on..game three wherein i got an opening of gyhates and soft counters to easily control his reanimators.

(2-0) mud
countered a 3rdturn platinum angel game 1..blighted was superb as golem cant block him..game 2 wherein he had multiple vesuvas to copy ancient tomb and taking so much damage from it..he played metalworker and n.claimed it next turn to give him extra lifepoints still..i had no infect crits yet but my 2 nobles are almost on the finish line..he landed a golem..calculated that i will be short still i waited whether he"ll cast wurmcoil or smokestack upon my probe..he casted smokestack and in response i reality rippled his golem giving me sufficient manas on my turn for a hierarch kill vial hardcasted invi and berserk!

Neffy
03-23-2015, 03:22 AM
To me, facing reanimator is quite the challenge some times.
I often meet it and he always go for elesh norn as the first dude, naturally. Typically he needles my karakas, and holds enough counter up for my berserk when he attacks.
Very difficult to get through. The second creature he lands is iiona on green.. Which pretty much seals the game.

I hate that matchup.. How do you board against it?


Also in my meta i often meet painter decks which is almost the most impossible matchup of all..
With so many moon effects, (i know - forest + noble and we're good..almost), the combo he has, and 4x sudden shock, 2 pyrokinesis from the board as well as sulfuric elemental with painter on white...
Jesus... Any of you ever meet such deck?

poxy14
03-23-2015, 03:34 AM
To me, facing reanimator is quite the challenge some times.
I often meet it and he always go for elesh norn as the first dude, naturally. Typically he needles my karakas, and holds enough counter up for my berserk when he attacks.
Very difficult to get through. The second creature he lands is iiona on green.. When pretty much seals the game.

I hate that matchup.. How do you board against it?

Also in my meta i often meet painter decks which is almost the most impossible matchup of all..
With so many moon effects, (i know - forest + noble and we're good..almost), the combo he has, and 4x sudden shock, 2 pyrokinesis from the board as well as sulfuric elemental with painter on white...
Jesus... Any of you ever meet such deck?

a resolved elesh norn is pretty much game vs us...i dont carry karakas in my SB, i have 2 surgicals and a crypt, and havent lost vs reanimators with a streak of 5 matches
my boarding plan is +1 fow / + 2 surgicals / +1 crypt / + 2 pierces.... -2 noble, -3 vines, -1 crop....

what u want vs this very fast combo is explosiveness on the early turns to put pressure on him too.. 2 become immense really improves our goal for an early kill..

the painter matchup is definitely a challenging one, if your meta has lots of it, do carry additional BEB effects for Magus... bloodmoon can still be dealt with our enchantment hates (i carry variables of grip, claim and naturalize) and do save a fetch for your forest in case of an emergency..

Neffy
03-23-2015, 03:59 AM
a resolved elesh norn is pretty much game vs us...i dont carry karakas in my SB, i have 2 surgicals and a crypt, and havent lost vs reanimators with a streak of 5 matches
my boarding plan is +1 fow / + 2 surgicals / +1 crypt / + 2 pierces.... -2 noble, -3 vines, -1 crop....

what u want vs this very fast combo is explosiveness on the early turns to put pressure on him too.. 2 become immense really improves our goal for an early kill..

the painter matchup is definitely a challenging one, if your meta has lots of it, do carry additional BEB effects for Magus... bloodmoon can still be dealt with our enchantment hates (i carry variables of grip, claim and naturalize) and do save a fetch for your forest in case of an emergency..


I also side out vines, and nobles some times. seems legit to do so. However playing bojuka bog and karakas in the board, the crop rotations i play is actually quite important.
I will side out more nobles and see how that goes. Im also considering running a grafdigger again, since it also nukes elves which can be explosive. Most reanimator players play a couple of show and tells to get around such. Its tough.

I like your 1-2-3 CMC artifact/enchantment hate package. I rarely see miracles anymore, so im thinking of going 2x nature's claim. Or perhaps a naturalize to avoid Chalice of the void :)

poxy14
03-23-2015, 04:20 AM
I also side out vines, and nobles some times. seems legit to do so. However playing bojuka bog and karakas in the board, the crop rotations i play is actually quite important. I will side out more nobles and see how that goes. Im also considering running a grafdigger again, since it also nukes elves which can be explosive. Most reanimator players play a couple of show and tells to get around such. Its tough.

post board REANIMATORS carry ABRUPT DECAYS in anticipation of artifacts like graf, relic, crypt etc...they carry needles too for drs that has an application with artifact gyhates and can target inkmoths too ... im really not a fan of graf vs reanimator as they could easily blow this up, unlike crypt that can still do remove some of their investments once these decays showup. when i play RUG i specifically carry 2 grafs for gydecks and elves... and i treat elves as a very positive matchup for us...often times an attacking exalted glistener serves as our removal vs them.. blighted and inkmoths are MVP here!

Neffy
03-25-2015, 03:55 AM
Went 5-1 in a ~25man tourny last night at my LGS.

My list was:
1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Pendelhaven
4 Tropical Island
1 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Become Immense
2 Berserk
4 Blighted Agent
4 Brainstorm
2 Crop Rotation
3 Daze
3 Force of Will
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Glistener Elf
4 Invigorate
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
1 Stifle
3 Vines of Vastwood

Sideboard:

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Force of Will
1 Karakas
1 Krosan Grip
1 Unravel the Aether
1 Nature's Claim
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Piracy Charm
2 Spell Pierce
1 Submerge
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Library
1 Teferi's Response


R1 vs Zoo. He is new to the game however manages a steady flow of beaters where mine succumb to his burn.
G2 and three i play it safe with a lot of pump and eventually gets there.
2-1

R2 vs. Omni show. I thought he was on reanimator, but the islands and cantrips gave him away. I establish simple beats which the decks have no interaction for.
Second game He eventually gets a show and tell going on 8 poison but his emrakul is not enough for 3 infect dudes attacking next turn.
2-0

R3 vs. MUD
Game one i keep a risky hand if he has chalice for 1. Which he has...
I build up a land base instead and he goes chalice for 0 too, and monolith and kuldotha. eventually he wants to kill me with blightsteel via kuldotha, but as he sacks his artifacts (keeping the chalice for 0 in game??) i use my 1-of stifle and wins from there. he didnt expect stifle..
G2 he goes land, tsabo's web. I go land go. He plays chalice for 1. daze. I go land go. he plays chalice for 1. daze. I go land go. He plays trinisphere. daze... I end up killing him with blighted agent and inkmoth with pump on both.
2-0

R4 vs. D&T
I am an idiot and keep a hand of zero lands, but 2 gitaxian probe and OTD.. Third time i have done this and never have i seen a land from this configuration.. Never again will i make that play! I lose horribly.
G2 i go forest(fakes a misplay, and replaces it quickly with a tropical island to represent a possible daze) and Glistener. He goes plains, go. Topdeck pierce to support T2 kill with invigorate and berserk. I win.
G3 i never see action and i regret having unravel the aether (that card was meant for my jund deck) in the board rather than my usual 2nd krosan grip... Pretty bad on a jitte.. I lose with him on 8 i think.
1-2

R5 vs. UWR
T2 kill.
G2 he stabilises with grim lavamancer, and swords after dazing my T1 noble and wasting my land.. I never see another.
G3 Is more close, with vines to save my dudes and him going delvers which i dont care about. In the end i win. nothing fancy here..
2-1

R6 vs. miracles. G1 he have fast Topbalance lock and i never get a foot on the ground.
G2 Same lock on the board. He tries to terminus my beater when its potentially lethal and i force it. before damage become immense grows my dude and kills him.
G3 He has the lock but i hold him off white and just beat with inkmoth. He never draws much usefulness.
2-1

Great games. Weird meta.
MVP: stifle, inkmoth

poxy14
03-25-2015, 09:52 PM
R3 vs. MUD...
G2 he goes land, tsabo's web... Weird meta.
MVP: stifle, inkmoth

Grats on your amazing finish! seeing those tsabo's web really is WEIRD haha! MUD pilot must have had a beating with inkmoth i guess : )

Neffy
03-26-2015, 03:15 AM
Grats on your amazing finish! seeing those tsabo's web really is WEIRD haha! MUD pilot must have had a beating with inkmoth i guess : )

yeah, that was me too ;)

Neffy
04-01-2015, 07:53 AM
Was browsing magiccards.info and found this

http://magiccards.info/ul/en/33.html

Anyone have had any experience with this card? Seems legit as most people try to interact by removing our creatures. It surely doesnt help at all when people are countering our pump spells, in which case pierce/dispel might be better.
If you go for the reactive game and just beat for 1 infect everyturn Intervene might be better.

Mizzium skin might also just be better in any case?

Hopo
04-01-2015, 08:54 AM
Was browsing magiccards.info and found this

http://magiccards.info/ul/en/33.html

Anyone have had any experience with this card? Seems legit as most people try to interact by removing our creatures. It surely doesnt help at all when people are countering our pump spells, in which case pierce/dispel might be better.
If you go for the reactive game and just beat for 1 infect everyturn Intervene might be better.

Mizzium skin might also just be better in any case?

How is this better than, say, Flusterstorm or the already mentioned Dispel?

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
04-02-2015, 04:18 PM
Haven't been legacy in while guys. This past Tuesday went 3-0-1 iding in rd 4 of one of my locals. Was using three breeding pools and just one troop for this event. I ran the same list as my last event but with a would defiance in the sideboard over the surgical extraction.

Rd 1 2-0 vs mono red mogg catcher
G1 he had multiple bloodmoob creatures but no removal for blighted agent.
G2 turn 3 kill of inkmoth.

Rd 2 2-1 omniscience
Games came down to counter wars

Rd 3 2-0 punishing post
Game 1 I was able to steal off of having enough pump to go through his punishing fires and bersek for the block.
Game 2 he missed 2nd land on turn 2 and turn 3 black was an eye of ugin.

Rd 4 id

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
04-02-2015, 04:22 PM
Was browsing magiccards.info and found this

http://magiccards.info/ul/en/33.html

Anyone have had any experience with this card? Seems legit as most people try to interact by removing our creatures. It surely doesnt help at all when people are countering our pump spells, in which case pierce/dispel might be better.
If you go for the reactive game and just beat for 1 infect everyturn Intervene might be better.

Mizzium skin might also just be better in any case?

Mizzium skin would be better if you were to put a slot toward it in my opinion. However, I feel that dispel/divert/spell pierce are just better since they can answer the removal and other problem cards.

Jesture
04-02-2015, 04:31 PM
Haven't been legacy in while guys. This past Tuesday went 3-0-1 iding in rd 4 of one of my locals. Was using three breeding pools and just one troop for this event. I ran the same list as my last event but with a would defiance in the sideboard over the surgical extraction.

Consider posting notes. This doesn't tell us anything.

echofish
04-02-2015, 04:37 PM
Anyone subscribing to scg that can give me a short brief on this article? http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30584_The-New-Infect.html

M+1
04-02-2015, 05:14 PM
I don't subscribe, but judging from the Facebook comments he has made a variant Infect deck with Living Wish. This is something I have also considered. Basically move 1 Inkmoth to the sideboard, and gain even better access to Inkmoth than before. It seems (also from the comments) that he also runs a white splash, which gives access to white hate bears (Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn Canonist, Containment Priest). I don't know if it is worth it, because Living Wish is such a slow, slow card. But it is interesting.

echofish
04-02-2015, 05:26 PM
I don't subscribe, but judging from the Facebook comments he has made a variant Infect deck with Living Wish. This is something I have also considered. Basically move 1 Inkmoth to the sideboard, and gain even better access to Inkmoth than before. It seems (also from the comments) that he also runs a white splash, which gives access to white hate bears (Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn Canonist, Containment Priest). I don't know if it is worth it, because Living Wish is such a slow, slow card. But it is interesting.

Hmm. How is Wish better then Crop Rotation? Teeg in a deck with FoW. Canonist in infect?!

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
04-03-2015, 02:28 PM
Hmm. How is Wish better then Crop Rotation? Teeg in a deck with FoW. Canonist in infect?!

It is to give you a better storm matchup game 1. Instead of just trying to be faster than them canonist just gives you the win in that game.

Jesture
04-03-2015, 03:19 PM
Anyone subscribing to scg that can give me a short brief on this article? http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30584_The-New-Infect.html

Was looking at this yesterday, the part about the Wish board is pretty ambitious deckbuilding. I don't know how much of this is pressure to innovate coming from SCG, and how much is Tom Ross legitimately believing this is a feasible direction for the deck. Either way, it'd be very interesting if this new twist on the deck takes off. First impressions are that it's too slow, but that's also how I initially felt about Dig Through Time. I may do some playtesting with this list if I can find my living wishes.

I think what was more interesting, however, is Dylan Donnegan's Infect list, which cut stifle, crop rotation, and ponder and plays 4 copies of preordain. Its an interesting take on the deck, especially as more and more people are familiar with the stock Infect list. With extra cantrips and more delve spells, Donnegan's list might be an extra boost in consistency and power that's been overlooked up until this point.

M+1
04-03-2015, 04:55 PM
That does sound interesting. What's his reasoning for Preordain over Ponder?

echofish
04-03-2015, 05:16 PM
Was looking at this yesterday, the part about the Wish board is pretty ambitious deckbuilding. I don't know how much of this is pressure to innovate coming from SCG, and how much is Tom Ross legitimately believing this is a feasible direction for the deck. Either way, it'd be very interesting if this new twist on the deck takes off. First impressions are that it's too slow, but that's also how I initially felt about Dig Through Time. I may do some playtesting with this list if I can find my living wishes.

I think what was more interesting, however, is Dylan Donnegan's Infect list, which cut stifle, crop rotation, and ponder and plays 4 copies of preordain. Its an interesting take on the deck, especially as more and more people are familiar with the stock Infect list. With extra cantrips and more delve spells, Donnegan's list might be an extra boost in consistency and power that's been overlooked up until this point.

Can you post these lists?

ironclad8690
04-04-2015, 06:42 PM
Hey guys,

I just wanted to know what is the scariest of these decks to see across from you:

Punishing Jund
Dark Maverick
Punishing Nic Fit
Sylvan Plug (Lejay's Choke deck)

Can you also explain your reasoning?

I have access to these decks and I have been losing to infect with Sylvan Plug for two straight weeks now at my local tournament.

Nuke is Good
04-04-2015, 07:30 PM
Hey guys,

I just wanted to know what is the scariest of these decks to see across from you:

Punishing Jund
Dark Maverick
Punishing Nic Fit
Sylvan Plug (Lejay's Choke deck)

Can you also explain your reasoning?

I have access to these decks and I have been losing to infect with Sylvan Plug for two straight weeks now at my local tournament.

Plug and Jund I think would be the scariest for infect. The infect player at our group just groans if he sees the deck being played due to how much removal it packs.

M+1
04-05-2015, 06:48 AM
Hey guys,

I just wanted to know what is the scariest of these decks to see across from you:

Punishing Jund
Dark Maverick
Punishing Nic Fit
Sylvan Plug (Lejay's Choke deck)

Can you also explain your reasoning?

Based on my experience, I would have to say Dark Maverick is the scariest on that list. The combination of Wasteland, StP, Abrupt Decay, AND Stoneforge/Jitte, plus Zealous Persecution and what not out of the sideboard can be devastating for Infect.
Punishing Fire is actually not that scary because it is often too slow, and Pendelhaven helps a lot.

Cybey
04-07-2015, 04:14 AM
Can you post these lists?

I'm also interested in seeing those lists.

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
04-07-2015, 01:23 PM
I'll post the lists on my lunch break. As for the decks you listed above I have only placed vs punishing jund and dark mav and of those two jund was always the harder matchup. Having access to heavy hand hate and punishing fire makes games that go past turn 3 a pain. Mav I have noticed run less discard, while it does have a one man a removal spell the reoccurring punishing fire is constant removal.

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
04-07-2015, 03:29 PM
I'm also interested in seeing those lists.

Dylan Donegan
0th Place at Test deck on 4/2/2015
Legacy

Creatures (12)

4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch

Lands (18)

1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
3 Tropical Island
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Pendelhaven

Spells (30)

2 Become Immense
2 Berserk
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
2 Vines of Vastwood
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Preordain

Sideboard
2 Rest in Peace
1 Sylvan Library
2 Dig Through Time
2 Flusterstorm
1 Hydroblast
1 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
2 Submerge
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vines of Vastwood

Tom Ross
2nd Place at StarCityGames.com Premier IQ on 3/29/2015
Legacy

Creatures (12)

4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch

Lands (20)

1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Pendelhaven

Spells (28)

1 Become Immense
2 Berserk
4 Brainstorm
1 Crop Rotation
3 Daze
1 Dig Through Time
3 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
2 Spell Pierce
1 Stifle
3 Vines of Vastwood
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ponder

Sideboard
1 Necropede
1 Spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
1 Sylvan Library
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
2 Hydroblast
2 Krosan Grip
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Savannah
1 Karakas


Bant Infect
Tom Ross
0th Place at Test deck on 4/2/2015
Legacy

Creatures (12)

4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch

Lands (19)

1 Forest
3 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Pendelhaven

Spells (29)

1 Become Immense
2 Berserk
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
3 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
2 Spell Pierce
1 Stifle
3 Vines of Vastwood
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Living Wish

Sideboard
1 Spellskite
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Gilded Drake
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Sylvan Library
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
2 Hydroblast
1 Krosan Grip
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Pendelhaven

here is what he said about the wish board
Wish Infect

During the card ride home, we started brewing various Living Wish decks. It began with Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage and eventually led to the idea of Living Wish being added to Infect as a utility card. After all, the deck is a combo deck that would sometimes run upwards of four lands in its sideboard anyway. What started as random unplayable ideas started sounding more and more competitive and realistic. Here are a few of the standout options we came across:

Creatures

Viridian Corrupter
Serves as a way to remove problem artifacts, mainly Umezawa's Jitte and Chalice of the Void.

Putrefax
A heavy hitter that can threaten to be a haste one-shot alongside either Berserk or Invigorate + Noble Hierarch.

Click
An interactive non-poison threat. I've always wanted a non-Infect creature that wasn't an 0/1 that I could use to punish people who frivolously use their life total. Vendilion Clique serves as the best was to disrupt their hand and to punish people who go too low on their life total.

Slaughterhorn
A pump spell that you can tutor for. Has a nice benefit of being uncounterable, and thus gets under a Counterbalance.

Gilded Drake
An answer to Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite after they hit play. This has a wide range of other targets as well, such as Blighted Agent in the mirror or a Marit Lage token.

Fiary-M
Uncastable, of course, but serves as your way to disrupt graveyard-based strategies. Not great against things like Tarmogoyf or Deathrite Shaman, but it's nice against Reanimator.

Lands

waste
The maindeck has always been a bit high on colorless lands, so moving them to the sideboard enables you to play either more colored lands, less lands, or even both. Will sometimes function to mana screw your opponent, but more often it will be there to destroy an extremely problematic land like Grove of the Burnwillows, Maze of Ith, or Glacial Chasm.

inkmoth
Often your best threat since it's so hard for some decks to interact with. It does come at a cost of cutting one from the maindeck, but that tradeoff comes with its own perks as well.

karakas
The go-to land for bouncing big reanimated and Show and Tell monsters. Also relieves the pressure from Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Uncertain if it's necessary when you have access to Gilded Drake though.

tower of the magistrate
Another previous Crop Rotation target. Best at equipping the Germ token from Batterskull to effectively kill it and to unequip Umezawa's Jitte. Possibly redundant as a target with Viridian Corrupter.

pendalhaven
A nice value land when you're trying to win outside of a pump spell combo. Protects against small removal like Disfigure and helps in combat against some decks like Death and Taxes. If I'm not playing one in the maindeck and the other in the sideboard, I'm playing two maindeck.

bog
Not quite as powerful when it doesn't come at instant-speed with Crop Rotation, Bojuka Bog can still be a fine turn 3 play against Dredge if you can use soft counters to make it that far. Also playable on turn 2 if you have Noble Hierarch.

White Cards

To play these, you'd want to play a Savannah maindeck since I don't consider the white from just Noble Hierarch enough to reliably warrant their sideboard inclusion.

meddling mage
Preemptively stops a problem spell. Could prevent Tendrils of Agony from beating you game 1 out of Storm.

giest
The best pound-for-pound regular damage creature you could want from the colors. Curves well after Living Wish so Geist remains as a very good reason to want both the Wish package and to play white. Geist of Saint Traft has floated around as a sideboard idea that would completely alter the way sideboarded games were played. However, there were neither enough cards to bring in or bring out to reliably play that game, and it left the deck doing neither plan well (leaving opponents at ten life and five infect isn't where you wanted to be). However, as a timely bullet you're sure to be on the right side of the fence at the right time.

knight
A potentially huge creature when you're running so many fetchlands. Better in decks that can threaten a continuous stream of Wastelands. With that said, the threat of your three Inkmoth Nexus and the fear of other instant-speed lands could be worth its inclusion.

canonist
Solely for the Storm matchup. You do often want to cast multiple spells in the same turn yourself, but the theory here is that they'll be hurt far more than you with it being on board.

containment priest
Another hate card against Sneak and Show and Reanimator. Loses a lot of its flair without the surprise value through.

These are only the top contenders, and I'm sure that you as readers have more ideas for sweet silver bullets. Here's the first run of it incorporating the concept without having too much overlap on card effects.

M+1
04-08-2015, 05:42 AM
Dylan Donegan
0th Place at Test deck on 4/2/2015
I like the genereal idea behind more cantrips, and I can even get behind 2 Vines because the card is really clunky at times, especially with Inkmoth.
But I don't think it makes any sense to add 4 cantrips AND then cut the number of blue lands from 12 to 11.
And it still remains to be shown that Preordain is not just a weaker Ponder - my own testing suggest that it is in fact weaker.


Tom Ross
2nd Place at StarCityGames.com Premier IQ on 3/29/2015
Tried and tested, super balanced and strong list from THE BOSS. The obvious starting point for anyone thinking about assembling Infect.
The white splash is a matter of taste. I prefer to play without it, personally.


Bant Infect
Tom Ross
0th Place at Test deck on 4/2/2015
While this is a super interesting excercise in deck building, I really think we need proof of concept - real results that show Living Wish can win games.


And now for something completely different! I plan to test this card later today: Split Decision.
It is functionally a Fork for 1U. This card only exist on paper, and NOT on Magic Online.
Primary uses: Copying pump spells like Invigorate or Berserk for quick lethal, copying any cantrip on any side (and I really really want to copy my opponent's Dig Through Time), and countering counterspells.
The downside is that the card does nothing on its own. But I guess the same can be said about pump spells.

Neffy
04-08-2015, 08:44 AM
...
And now for something completely different! I plan to test this card later today: Split Decision.
It is functionally a Fork for 1U. This card only exist on paper, and NOT on Magic Online.
Primary uses: Copying pump spells like Invigorate or Berserk for quick lethal, copying any cantrip on any side (and I really really want to copy my opponent's Dig Through Time), and countering counterspells.
The downside is that the card does nothing on its own. But I guess the same can be said about pump spells.


I love it! It seems quite versatile, but the biggest issue I guess would be where to put and it and what it should replace? Maybe as a singleton in the board/main like some decks run councils judgment.
Question is if it is better than Divert?

DARK_r3ck0n1ng
04-08-2015, 01:25 PM
With the new ideas going on with the main deck, I plan on trying out 2 abrupt decays in the main. I'll most likely go down to 2 trops/breeding and bayou/overgrown. I really like the option of having this card game one vs a lot of the format and helps remove the problem cards like Jitte and chalice. Thoughts?

poxy14
04-09-2015, 01:01 PM
I really like the option of having this card game one vs a lot of the format and helps remove the problem cards like Jitte and chalice. Thoughts?

carrying 3 colors will just expose our weakness vs wastelands.dec, and topdecking these removals will compromise the deck's explosiveness.. mud is a positive matchup! land an inkmoth and invigorates will get u there..jitte is slow, u can always crop rot for pendels..vines opp.crits and sb offers a lot of help vs that artifact. i think the deck is too tight right now and ug is the shell that i think will remain to perform well.

btw, i was on rug last sunday (#4 of 40+) coz ive mistakenly switched deckboxes with my supposedly sunday entry uginfect.. met a fellow infect player middle of the rounds and was able to 2-0 him easily (bitter sweet). Before we worry bout jund..maverick..mud...i think that rugdelver is far more difficult matchup than those..they have answer to everything infect has..rebs..wastelands..stifles..burn that can interact..submerges.. well, if we're able to pass thru this archetype..then i think the decks listed above shouldnt be much of a problem.