[PRIMER] Oozing

[Raystar]

Oozing - A primer
(v1.1 by Raystar. Thanks to Pandaman and the crew on The Source for all the development work on the deck and to Jamis for having started it all)

Revision History

v1.0 (May 2015): Primer created and posted
v1.1 (December 2015): updated current sideboard to take in account the fading of Omnitell.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39999027/Ooze.jpeghttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39999027/Devourer.jpeghttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39999027/Triskelion.jpeghttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39999027/plus.gifhttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39999027/Grizzie.jpeg



1. A bit of background

As soon as Necrotic Ooze went out of the printing press somebody was clever enough to identify the interaction of its ability with a Phyrexian Devourer and a Triskelion in the graveyard. The first successful iteration of a deck containing the combo was a UB list including some permission and Personal Tutor/Lim Dul’s Vault; the deck worked but it was extremely reliant on Buried Alive+a reanimation spell and had a limited draw capacity. The appearance in the meta of specialised graveyard hate and stronger tempo strategies eclipsed the Ooze combo approach for a while until WotC decided to give us his Highness of drawing: Griselbrand. Mimicking other broken approaches to the usage of the black demon, the Ooze combo became a more “all in” deck that is capable of insanely fast kills or to grind an opponent until a window opens to combo.
When the deck is on its “fast” strategy it resembles Tin Fins but it doesn’t need to go through an attack phase to close the game, it draws a bunch of cards and assembles the ooze combo through producing 4 or 5 mana (at least 2 of which B). In other situations it just sits there waiting for an Ooze to land and trick the opponent into different combo paths. A more detailed description of the combo arsenal is included in another section of this Primer.

A link to the old thread for the ooze combo (pre Griselbrand) is below:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19026-Non-Survival-Ooze&highlight=Ooze

A report of a successful tournament placement with the old Ooze list:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19200-Report-Necrotic-Ooze-Combo-Splits-Top-4-in-Ann-Arbor-MI

A link to the development thread that brought us to the current iteration of the deck:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25614-Oozing

This primer is meant to continue to be a “living” document, we hope that, with the help of the Community, Oozing will thrive and evolve. A lot of the primer is still a “work in progress” and it will stay like that while additional content is added.

Please browse through the full thread if you want to keep up to date with recent changes. I'll be posting the most updated list in the primer, but big reviews of the primer will certainly lag behind

2. Anatomy of a graveyard feeding monster

As many other combo decks, Oozing is built upon four main spell pools: the combo itself, a card drawing and selection engine, a disruption package and resources to produce fast mana.

2.1. Fuelling the Engine

After many iterations of the deck, the most commonly utilized mana producing package has the following structure:

15 Lands
5 Artifact accelerants
4 Ritual effects

A typical implementation of those is:

3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal

4 Dark Ritual

Pre-sideboarding (more on that later) the deck only makes use of B and U mana, the Bayous are there to support sideboarding options and are utilised in G1 as if they were “weaker” Swamps. The number of lands has gone up and down for a while until it has stabilised to the current core of 15. At the moment the G splash is seen as essential to battle many forms of hate (more on that in the description of sideboarding options) and it is considered a foundation of the mana core of the deck.

The mana base is pretty stable and the deck can function on a minimum of 1 land mana but it is built to work steadily between 2-3 land mana.

The fetches pool suggested above can be additionally refined by replacing 2 of the Verdant Catacombs with a Marsh Flat and a Bloodstained Mire to be fractionally more resistant to denial strategies.

Acceleration comes in the form of Lotus Petal and Dark Ritual. The deck uses acceleration in both the initial setup strategy (drawing) and the combo finishing. It is important to play the acceleration resources as tight as possible during the setup phase to make sure that the finishing combo can be fuelled immediately. That is where the Chrome Mox comes in: it acts as Lotus Petal number 5 after a significant piece of the deck has been drawn and stabilises the combo deployment.

2.2. Making life less easy for the Opponent

During its evolution, Oozing has employed different disruption packages to support its strategies. The current approach is similar to the one used by ANT/TES/Tin Fins: one mana targeted discard to check the opponent hand and get rid of road blockers. For a long time the disruption package has been something along the lines of:

3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

The 6 discard effects insured that some form of disruption was present at the start of a game. Cabal Therapy has an additional interaction with Griselbrand by making sure that when the demon gets on the board through Shallow Grave it goes back to the graveyard instead of being exiled at end of turn. This is true also for the other pieces of the combo and it’s not too uncommon to burn a reanimation spell on a combo piece (Triskelion is especially useful) to provide utility and have it return to the graveyard after having performed additional disruption.

As of late, learning from what the Storm combo crew has developed, a slightly different approach has emerged:

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy

A smaller disruption core that also doubles as a card handling engine. The issue with Oozing is that the price for the added flexibility it has is payed by having a larger combo supporting core, this prevents us from being able to run the same amount of cantrips available in the Storm based decks. The Probe/Therapy approach is a compromise between an heavy disruption package and a bigger cards drawing/selection engine.

2.3. Cards, cards, cards!

In order to be able to fuel its fast combo strategy, Oozing tries to force a quickly reanimated Griselbrand on the battlefield. This is (generally and preferably) obtained through the Entomb+Shallow Grave combo and it is not uncommonly performed during the first turn of the game. An hastily reanimated Griselbrand guarantees 21 cards and it is generally game over. Oozing doesn’t provide the same cards drawing cycle that Tin Fins allows through Children of Korlis but it possesses enough combo density to generally close the game on the spot. The way the combo flows, after a Griselbrand reanimation, can follow different paths depending of the drawn cards and the game state, we will discuss some of the options in the combo related section.

As usual for combo decks, the main strategy is also based on powerful cards selection and filtering:

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe


As previously discussed Gitaxian Probe doubles as support for the disruption package minimising the impact of the big size of the combo engine. Unfortunately there hasn’t been (as of yet) many successful attempts at adding Preordain without watering down the combo density, ideally 2 more cantrips would glue the deck even more than it is right now…it is one of the possible development lines of the current shell.

2.4. Comboooooooooooo

As you probably know the main combo kill of the deck is performed with Necrotic Ooze on the battlefield and Triskelion+Phyrexian Devourer in the graveyard. The Ooze activates the Devourer ability gaining +1/+1 counters and then uses the ability offered by Triskelion to throw them to the opponent under the form of damage. There are other ways to get a combo kill with the deck but first a look to the combo content of the deck:

3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate

The presence of Putrid Imp is due to the need to be able to discard combo pieces left in hand, the Imp can be in the battlefield or in the graveyard with an active Ooze to perform its duties. An additional role of the Imp, albeit diminished by having the current list to only run a single Griselbrand is to act as an additional entomb effect from the hand.

A quick list of possible combo effects include:

Cast Entomb after blockers have been declared against an attacking Ooze to obtain an unexpected kill or get rid of an unwanted enemy blocker.
Cast Buried Alive when a Ooze is on the battlefield for an immediate combo kill
Cast Entomb twice with a Ooze on the battlefield for an immediate combo kill
Cast Buried Alive and a reanimation spell

There are a ton of possible occasional interactions offered by the combo pieces, from drawing with a Ooze through an entombed Griselbrand to using abilities of creatures in the opponent graveyard. Please note that the deck can also discard and reanimate creatures owned by the opponent adding disruption to the game.

Some of the combo kills are more or less suited to be employed during specific matchups, a more detailed explanation of their relevance will be given in the matchup analysis section.

The full combo cycle generally goes along the following lines:

Griselbrand is placed in the graveyard. This normally happens through the use of Entomb or by being discarded from the hand (through self-directed discard or by going to the discard phase)
Griselbrand is reanimated to the battlefield. This can happen through Shallow Grave or Reanimate. In case of a Shallow Grave reanimation, Griselbrand comes into play with haste and is able to attack immediately granting an additional pool of cards to be used during the second phase of the combo. If Reanimate is used, then Griselbrand won’t generally be able to generate immediate card advantage and the rest of the combo will usually happen during the following turn.
With the cards obtained through Griselbrand’s ability, the deck generates the 4 to 6 mana needed to kill the opponent. The cards to look for to close the game are any form of “reaction start” mana (dropping a land for the turn, Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox), some ritual effect if required, and the spell pieces needed ( Buried Alive, a reanimation spell, Necrotic Ooze)

Please note the following (not exhaustive) list of relevant effect:

Once the combo starts it is only vulnerable to Extirpate. If there is suspicion that an opponent holds one in hand it is possible to stack a set amount of Devourer activations without passing priority between them (basically self responding to the activations). In the worst case (Extirpate hits Triskelion) the Ooze becomes an enormous monster very difficult to deal with.
Creatures reanimated through Shallow Grave are exiled during the next end turn. A Cabal Therapy in the graveyard can prevent the exile effect allowing the creature to be reanimated again
A Phyrexian Devourer stranded in hand can be cast and activated until it reaches 7 power and hence sacrificed to go to the graveyard and enable the combo



3. A look at similar strategies

3.1. Reanimator

Why play Oozing instead of Reanimator? It’s a good question that the people that developed the deck have asked themselves many times…Here you go with an attempt to answer the question in the most rational way possible, below you’ll find a list of reasons that in no way are meant to diminish the strength of Reanimator but only to give evidence to the relevant differences between the two decks.

Oozing doesn’t obligatory need an attack phase to win a game
Oozing generally wins on the spot once the combo is running
Oozing is able to grind a victory against some of Reanimator worst matchups (BUG Delver as an example)
Oozing is less weak to strategies that make use of Chalice of the Void

Depending on the meta, Reanimator’s ability to use a permission suite might be better than the combo oriented disruption package employed by Oozing. For example, in a meta infested by Storm based decks, Reanimator can have some advantage against Oozing. In general Reanimator is a bit weaker against counter-strategies attacking the graveyard and it is forced to use additional combo strategies to close a game (the presence of Show and Tell in many Reanimator lists is an example).

3.2. Tin Fins

Tin Fins and Oozing are extremely similar, the setup phase is basically the same and the fast combo route is generally executed at the same time. The real differences between the two decks are outlined below:

Tin Fins combo is generally always happening during the span of one turn. Oozing instead may need to pass the turn to kill during the opponent's turn (typically during the upkeep) or wait for the following untap phase. In practice this is rarely an issue but there is a chance that the opponent could recover from the setup.
Oozing is less weak to strategies that make use of Chalice of the Void
Oozing has less dependence from available life points
Oozing can follow alternate routes to victory

In a nutshell the two decks differ by offering a different route to the kill with Tin Fins being the most “stable” and Oozing the most resilient.


4. Sideboard strategy

The biggest threats to Oozing strategies come in four main forms:

Graveyard disruption effects
Permission/Hand disruption
Taxing effects/Chalice effects
Specific deck strategies

All of the above are represented in the current meta/DtBs and present specific hurdles that the deck aims to resolve with its general strategy and the sideboard. In general, Oozing, is capable to resist a single one of the effects above (except specific effects that are addressed by the sideboard). Multiple different forms of attack can of course become problematic and need to be circumvented by tailoring specific answers to decks posing the threats. During this section of the Primer we’ll try to address the categories above one by one and see if there is any way to accommodate answers to simultaneously occurring problems.

4.1. Graveyard disruption

There are two main forms of graveyard directed disruption:

Permanent effects: generated by cards that continuously prevent the expected interaction with the graveyard. Common examples of card generating this type of effects are Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace and Grafdigger’s Cage
One time effects: generated by cards that need some form of activation to disrupt the interaction with the graveyard. Very common examples are Deathrite Shaman, Tormod’s Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, Surgical Extraction and many others.

Oozing is surprising resistant to one time effects, especially during the comboing phase: the combo simply responds to the effect by reactivating the step at which the disruption was applied. During the setup phase there are various trick that can be applied to get a Griselbrand into play at instant speed depending on the state of the game. One time effects that require a creature to be tapped are specifically weaker, often giving the deck an additional turn to go off.

Permanent effect are more difficult to deal with and require specific answers. The most complex scenarios is when they present themselves in tandem with others. An example is a post-board game against Miracles when a Rest in Peace can be in play alongside an active Counterbalance. Oozing sideboard strategy needs to contain answers to a scenario of this type that are also useful to address other hate pieces.

After a significant amount of testing, a combination of direct removal and swiping effects have resulted the best approach and Oozing sideboard contains a number of Abrupt Decay and Reverent Silence. Both cards require the presence of G producing sources and are the reason why the land set includes 2 Bayou.

4.2. Permission/Discard

The deck is somewhat resilient to targeted discard (Brainstorm helps a lot there) and can even benefit from non targeted discard (Hymn to Tourach like) in some given situation. Permission, instead, is totally another matter. When coupled with other hate effects, permission, can really slow down the deck to a crawl and neutralise its power. This is a common weakness of combo and Oozing is affected by it. What Oozing brings to the field is the capacity to circumvent the hate aimed against spells by playing a Creature based combo strategy. Decks that pack “soft” or “situational” permission (Daze, Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm) alongside Force of Will may allow an Ooze to land unscathed after the field has been cleared with discard. At that point the density of the entombing effects included in Oozing is usually enough to overload the permission suite of many decks.

An exception to the above is presented by decks implementing a Sensei’s Divining Top+Counterbalance combo. In this cases Oozing makes use of its sideboard (in addition to being able to use casting costs out of the typical curve of a Top/Balance deck) through the adoption of the counter hate described in the previous section.

It is extremely good that these two problems are solved by the same set of spells from the sideboard, this makes for a compact set of solutions for a wide array of threats.

4.3. Prison Effects

As discussed for the graveyard based disruption, we can identify three main families of prison effects:

Taxation effects
Chalice of the Void like effects
Meddling Mage and Phyrexian Revoker like effects

Taxation effects are not an enormous problem in singles (Oozing doesn’t need to line up a huge amount of spells like Storm based combo decks) but they can completely prevent the deck from functioning when present in multiples and if coupled with efficient denial. In this case the same set of spells aimed at permanent hate comes to the rescue, specifically Abrupt Decay.

Chalice effects are only partially effective against Oozing as the deck can operate above the usual “1” cost being loaded on Chalice of the Void. Chalice effects coupled with taxation can, in any case, prove to be extremely difficult to manage for Oozing and, out of the sideboard, Abrupt Decay is the usual superstar answer to them. In addition to removal, the Reanimate spells from the MD are generally replaced by Exhume from the sideboard.

Against creature based prison effects, in addition to the usual Abrupt Decay, Massacre comes out of the board. Massacre is especially good against the plethora of W based hate bears decks but is weak to the presence of Gaddock Teeg. For this reason Massacre is generally sided in together with some number of Abrupt Decay.

4.4. Specific decks strategies

There is a certain number of decks (typically combo decks) that can challenge the speed of Oozing or can create game states that are difficult for Oozing to resolve. The identified ones are listed below:

Omnitell: the sideboard contains additional discard and (at least) one Iona, Shield of Emeria to cope with the speed plus permission packed by Omnitel. In addition Extraction effects (Surgical Extraction) can be employed to remove the enabler of the Omnitel strategy if discarded (Show and tell). Omnitell is fading from the meta and the SB has been reworked accordingly (December 2015)
ANT/TES: additional discard+extraction coupled by the speed of the deck are generally enough
Dredge: extraction effects coupled with Oozing speed makes the matchup playable
Tempo decks: an additional Ooze allows to grind this matchup together with the omnipresent Abrupt Decay

In matchups where Iona, Shield of Emeria comes in from the side, a couple of the Shallow Grave spells in the main Deck are generally replaced by two Exhume from the sideboard.


5. Current lists

The list that seems to provide the best results in the current meta (December 2015) is the following:

Main Deck:

3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive
4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate

4 Cabal Therapy

1 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
1 Triskelion


Sideboard:

3 Abrupt Decay
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
2 Exhume
2 Ground Seal
2 Massacre
2 Reverent Silence
2 Carpet of Flowers

[Raystar]

6. Matchup Analysis (Work in Progress)

6.1. BUG Delver

Despite the appearance, the BUG Delver matchup is not overly difficult for Oozing to win. A typical match is described by the 2 videos below from test games on MTGO.

G1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSnOZ_bxhRo
G2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqIdeEYFrzo

The matchup requires some patience and revolves around creating an unmanageable game state for the BUG deck. Instant speed reanimation and the combo being resilient to the typical graveyard hate used by BUG makes these matches pretty affordable for Oozing. Please note the “inventive” use of Triskelion during the second game referenced above.

A typical sideboard strategy would be:

Out: 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Reanimate, 1 Ponder, 1 Gitaxian Probe
In: 3 Abrupt Decay, 1 Necrotic Ooze

The additional Ooze from the sideboard represent a real problem for the current BUG lists that only have 4 Force of Will and rarely Liliana of the Veil to stop or manage an hardcasted Ooze. This matchup is where the combo between an attacking Ooze and Entomb is generally backbreaking.

6.2. Omnitell

Omnitel can prove an hard nut to crack. The combination of relative speed and protection needs to be addressed by additional specific hate from the sideboard.

A typical match is shown in the videos below obtained from test games on MTGO.

G1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD0F_1lMc_c
G2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s7tDUSpYB0
G3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmRr_MtOmaY

A typical sideboard strategy would be:

Out: 1 Necrotic Ooze, 1 Chrome Mox, 2 Shallow Grave, 1 Ponder, 1 Gitaxian Probe
In: 2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria, 1 Duress, 2 Exhume

6.3. Miracles

Miracles is definitely the most difficult matchup for Oozing. Counterbalance, a ton of spell based permission, Rest in Peace from the board, removal for Ooze and Vendilion Clique make it an uphill battle. The only real weapon that Oozing possess against Miracles is the chance to a lightning fast start against a permission light hand. As it is expected, the longest the game the lower the chances of a win for Oozing, especially during G1.

G2 and G3 are slightly improved by the sideboard content and a typical swap could be:

Out: 1 Chrome Mox, 2 Reanimate, 1 Necrotic Ooze, 1 Ponder, 1 Buried Alive, 1 Gitaxian Probe
In: 3 Abrupt Decay, 2 Reverent Silence, 2 Exhume

Two copies of Exhume for two Reanimate are brought in to reduce the impact of CounterTop against the reanimation package.

You can see an example of Oozing beating Miracles in the following two videos from a test game on MTGO. Please note that the match was recorded using a slightly different list of Oozing than the one posted above.

G1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoqTHiUY7K4
G2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5icB7dsrKk

6.4. Enchantress

The Enchantress matchup is generally pretty easy. Enchantress rarely has the speed to match Oozing and is rarely able to shut Oozing down. The greatest risk that the matchup poses is Rest in Peace that can be even present Main Deck if the Enchantress player runs the Helm of Obedience combo. Normally, though, Oozing can run undisturbed and quickly close the match.

The usual sideboard strategy is:

Out: 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Necrotic Ooze, 1 Ponder, 1 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Cabal Therapy
In: 2 Abrupt Decay, 2 Reverent Silence, 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

An example of how difficult it is for Enchantress to resist Oozing can be found in the two videos below. The videos have been recorded during test games on MTGO with a version of Oozing slightly older than the current one.

G1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqdC5tCzico
G2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBInss1KbMI

6.5. Death and taxes

Death and Taxes as a deck is pretty susceptible to combo strategies, the result is that this is a pretty good matchup for Oozing. Despite packing a lot of hate, Massacre and Abrupt Decay are generally enough to get D&T under control.

A typical sideboarding strategy could be something like:

Out: 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Ponder, 2 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Cabal Therapy
In: 3 Abrupt Decay, 2 Massacre

A couple of video of Oozing playing against D&T are below. The videos have been recorded during test games on MTGO, with the version of Oozing suggested in this primer.

G1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld9ukY5yXGg
G2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdVCQJg8yJo

6.6. MUD

This is a very peculiar matchup. The MUD player will usually try to open with a Chalice of the Void at “1”. While this is definitely a strong play against Oozing, it is still possible to win the game by making use of the higher cost spells of the combo. It is important to remove the two Reanimate in the MD in favour of 2 copies of Exhume to minimize the effect of the Chalice.

The sideboarding strategy could be of this type:

Out: 1 Chrome Mox, 2 Reanimate, 2 Gitaxian Probe
In: 3 Abrupt Decay, 2 Exhume

A very typical match is recorded below from a test session on MTGO.

G1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdpI9Q6aI5M
G2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbynshwMQHg
G3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9elWqTem7Pc

6.7. Infect

Another reasonable matchup for Oozing. The games usually revolve around the quantity of permission available to the Infect player, if Force of WIll has been addressed Oozing is normally capable to close the game.

A pretty straightforward sideboarding strategy:

Out: 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Ponder, 1 Gitaxian Probe
In: 3 Abrupt Decay

An Infect match can be found below. During the second game the opponent decides to concede under Oozing pressure.

G1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK4wHDKryzg
G2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqcKRSois1k

6.8. Jund

The match against Jund is generally pretty easy in G1 but it can become extremely complex in G2/G3 given the horrible amount of graveyard hate that Jund may bring from the sideboard.
Considering the strong discard package and a quick clock, the matchup can prove pretty hard.

The videos below are an evidence of the challenge that the matchup entails.

G1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a8_JctEUGQ
G2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=966PR83ZILk
G3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtI1Ec3Gk20

It’s probably best to limit the sideboard exercise to the minimum amount of cards possible to avoid reducing the chances of comboing out.

Out: 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Ponder, 1 Gitaxian Probe
In: 3 Abrupt Decay

6.9. Esper Thopter Foundry

This is not the best matchup for Oozing but the fact that they don't use Rest in Peace makes it better. Esper Thopter is also a pretty slow deck in general and Oozing is able to create a significant amount of pressure to it.

Out: 2 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Chrome Mox
In: 3 Abrupt Decay

Here you with some videos of a test match on MTGO

G1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shn6EDWnhHQ

G2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyY8gitRRt4

G3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG_bdqrHtDE


6.9. Esper Blade

A slightly more difficult matchup than the previous one: it has a faster clock and generally packs more disruption post sideboard. Massacre from the board is usually a very good card in G2/G3.

Out: 3 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Necrotic Ooze
In: 3 Abrupt Decay, 2 Massacre

G1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEvo4NhlRzI

G2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjS5c4_wndI

[Raystar]

Current matchup status from my tests on MTGO will be kept updated in the table below (updated 25 May 2015).

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39999027/MODO_Snap.jpg

[Raystar]

Moving here from the developmental thread. All feedback welcome!

[pandaman]

Subscribed. Oozer reporting for duty, sir!

[Namida]

For the matchups that you've provided information for, you're sideboarding the Chrome Mox out every time. Are you sure you even want it in the deck at all? Chrome Mox is a bad draw before you combo; though you cite Chrome Mox's use as Lotus Petal #5 to help you finish the combo, it looks like you're not even playing with the card in your deck in a majority of your games. I get that it's an easy cut, but do you really feel that what Chrome Mox does is important enough to want it in all of your preboard games (and only your preboard games since you seem to immediately side it out all the time)? I feel like a fifth discard spell in the main might be more useful.

[pandaman]

If you want to go fast you leave it in, if not you take it out. It really does help finish the combo often, and it's not a dead draw because the mana it produces is useful.

[pandaman]

It usually stays in against combo (Storm, OmniTell, Reanimator) and comes out against everything else, for me that is.

[Namida]

I finally found an FBB Triskelion, so I suppose I'll have to try it out for myself. I just feel like the card adds to the number of cards I usually wouldn't want to draw pre-combo, and Raystar siding it out against seemingly every matchup including the combo deck he faced makes me feel like it isn't as important to devote a spot to being able to complete the combo. I think I'll probably play a Thoughtseize in the spot, and make a note of every time it would have been better as a Chrome Mox.

[pandaman]

I side differently to Raystar, we are always having discussions about that.

[Raystar]

I side differently to Raystar, we are always having discussions about that.

As I said numerous times...I'm a very bad player :) (not a joke, I really am...)

I generally keep the Mox in against Storm and Dredge and I side it out when I may benefit from an hard casted Ooze to go in the red zone.

The Mox is great to make sure that you are going to close the deal when passing through Griselbrand and this is your typical way to combo in G1. During G2 and G3 the opponent will know where you are coming from, and you will probably go through the motions of the kill part of the combo (either by attacking with the Ooze or by burying the combo pieces with a Ooze on the table). In this case the Mox becomes less relevant and it's a good side out target.

Assuming you win G1, another strategy could be to side for a grind game in G2 and if that is lost side back for fast combo in G3 (hence the Mox would go back in).

[pandaman]

Quick weekly report.

I loaned my USeas and Deltas to a friend so he could splash Black in Merfolk, so I took along this monstrosity:

5 Swamp
2 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
4 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
3 Exhume
2 Reanimate

4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy

3 Sign in Blood

Sideboard

2 Surgical Extraction
4 Dark Confidant
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
3 Massacre

R1 v UB Merfolk. Won 2-0.

So I play the guy I lent the cards to first round. G1 I Exhume a Griselbrand after running into some , and we all know Fish can't deal with that. G2, facing T1 Cage, he allows me to fill my GY with combo pieces to use with the two Oozes in my hand that are immune to his Pierces and Flusterstorms. I ram one into a Daze after stripping a FoW with Therapy so I have enough mana to resolve the second one.

R2 v BUG Control. Won 2-1.

G1 T1 kill. G2 T1 kill prevented by Nihil Spellbomb, followed by a Sphere of Resistance, and I can't find the double reanimation to play through in time. G3 T1 kill.

R3 v Burn. Loss 0-2.

G1 he kills me T4 when I have him dead next turn. G2 he kills me turn 3 when I have him dead next turn. Note: Therapy always names Eidolon!

R4 v Infect. Win 2-0.

G1 hand is land, Petal, Ritual, Ritual, Griselbrand, Reanimate on a mull to 6. Keep for the laughs. On the draw, draw a land. Second turn, draw a third Ritual. Petal, Ritual x 3 into Griselbrand with Petal open. Meets a FoW. Griselbrand returns from the GY next turn via Reanimate though, so problem. G2 T1 Ritual Entomb and Exhume Ooze with another Entomb in hand. T2 swing and Entomb Devourer for lethal. Oracle text needed!

The deck is still just as much fun without Blue, but much better with it. Don't be afraid to run Oozing if you don't have USeas and Deltas, just go BG and have a wild time!

Sign in Blood is garbage, though. You need something else there, but I don't know what. Probes or more reanimation, perhaps?

[pandaman]

Also, I'm Oozing some style and class at this Sunday's Big Legacy in Brisbane. Going to make it three from three Top 8s with the Ooze, and and four consecutive Top 8s overall! But I plan to win this one this time. GY hate is LOW and I am confident I can go deep.

[Raystar]

Also, I'm Oozing some style and class at this Sunday's Big Legacy in Brisbane. Going to make it three from three Top 8s with the Ooze, and and four consecutive Top 8s overall! But I plan to win this one this time. GY hate is LOW and I am confident I can go deep.

Good stuff mate! :smile:

I'm playing with cardboard tonight with a slightly different sideboard (-1 Ooze, + 1 Iona...I expect some Omnitell :wink:). I hope to do well...I'll make a report tomorrow.

[Raystar]

I forgot to mention: Iona against burn is another blow out, of course :)

[pandaman]

Nice. Although I like Probe I am good enough with Therapy not to need it all the time. I'll likely be running close to my usual 61 card list. But I am giving careful consideration to the amount of Storm and Omni there will be with Iona in side...

[Karhumies]

A couple of minor technical things about the deck which I think were not mentioned in the OP:

Q1) Why run 1of Putrid Imp? Isn't that a dead card?

A1) Supposing you have a Triskelion in hand, you can Buried Alive (Necrotic Ooze, Phyrexian Devourer & Putrid Imp) into Reanimate/Shallow Grave the Ooze, activate Putrid Imp's ability to go off without having to e.g. Cabal Therapy yourself naming Triskelion.

Q2) What about Necrotic Ooze gaining 7+ attack with Phyrexian Devourer's ability and consequently sacrifing itself? Isn't that a problem?

A2) While the ability putting too many +1/+1 counters on Ooze is on the stack, you respond to it without giving priority to your opponent with another Devourer activation. Repeat until the opponent dies. The game will end before the Ooze becomes "too large", needing to be sacrificed.

[pandaman]

Putrid Imp allows you to combo with Buried Alive + Reanimation if you have either Phyrexian Devourer or Triskelion in hand. Buried Alive for Necrotic Ooze, PImp, and whichever of the other combo piece is not in hand, and resolve your reanimation spell on Ooze. Activate PImp's (Ooze's) ability by discarding the combo piece you have in hand and then combo as normal. This works even if you have both Trisk and Devourer in hand, too. Buried Alive for Ooze and Pimp, reanimate Ooze, and use PImp's (Ooze') ability twice holding priority and, gain, combo as usual. PImp is also useful to play out on the board because any Griselbrand or Ooze (or even Trisk or Devourer) can be discarded at instant speed and reanimated. Especially useful if you're comboing with Shallow Grave and they take your Ooze with a Deathrite Shaman, for example. Let that ability resolve, and with Shallow Grave on the stack, discard the Ooze from your hand and get it anyway. Also, PImp sacs to Therapy to push through that all important spell. It blocks in a pinch. It combines with Ooze, Trisk, and Devourer to go on beat down (especially with Threshold). In conclusion, it's far from dead: it's very important.

Phyrexian Devourer has been errataed. The "sac if power above 7" is now a static ability of the card and not part of the activated ability. So can make Ooze as big as you like (or, more accurately) the cards in your library allow) with Devourer's ability. If you for some reason reanimate Devourer (and I've done it many times for various reasons) you do have to be careful, though.

[Karhumies]

One additional thing which is in my opinion not sufficiently covered in the OP is the possibility to Reanimator-like work in the opponent's end step.

Example sequence:
D.Rit, Entomb/PImp Griselbrand, Shallow Grave, let the opponent pass the turn to you, untap lands to get the mana to combo off.

This can come "out of nowhere".

[pandaman]

I’m Oozing some Style and Class this Sunday. I’m going to pimp up to match, shiny shoes, blazer, pocket square, the works. But that’s not what you want to hear about, you want a list! Here’s the weapon:

Maindeck (61)

Mana (24)

2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

Combo (7)

3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp
1 Griselbrand

Card Selection (8)

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

Getting Things In Graveyard (7)

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

Getting Things Out Of Graveyard (8)

4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
1 Exhume

Information and Disruption (8)

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe

Sideboard (15)

3 Abrupt Decay
1 Necrotic Ooze
2 Reverent Silence
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Exhume
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize
1 UNDECIDED

Now, it’s 61 cards. But, as regular readers will know, all my lists are 61 cards. Anyway, with Gitaxian Probe, it’s effectively a 57 card list.

Here are my sideboarding strategies against the decks I expect to see this Sunday:

Miracles

-1 Necrotic Ooze -2 Reanimate -1 Chrome Mox -1 Gitaxian Probe -1 Ponder -1 Buried Alive
+3 Abrupt Decay +2 Reverent Silence +2 Exhume

You don’t need to go fast in this match (-1 Necrotic Ooze -1 Chrome Mox -1 Buried Alive). You need to reduce the influence of CounterTop lock (-2 Reaminate -1 Probe -1 Ponder +2 Exhume). You need to deal with Rest in Peace and Counterbalance (+3 Decay +2 Reverent Silence). Normally I DO NOT side out cantrips (i.e. Ponder in this case) but because you’ll go long in this matchup you can afford to do it,

Death & Taxes

-1 Chrome Mox -1 Exhume -4 Gitaxian Probe
+3 Abrupt Decay +2 Massacre +1 Reverent Silence

You don’t need to go fast here, you’re plenty fast enough (-1 Chrome Mox). You don’t need the information off Probe (-3 Probe). You’re naming Thalia every time on T1 if you have Therapy (you don’t care about Revoker, you can find Decay to deal with it or Massacre it, but Thalia decreases the effectiveness of your cantrips). You’re quite worried about Spirit of the Labyrinth and Rest in Peace (+1 Reverent Silence, perhaps +2 if you discover they’re heavily on RiP and SotL in G2). Finally, you don’t want that Thalia/Revoker/Spirit you Decayed coming back when you combo (-1 Exhume)!

BUG Delver

-1 Chrome Mox, -2 Gitaxian Probe, -Buried Alive
+3 Abrupt Decay +1 Necrotic Ooze

Your plan is to hardcast Ooze (+1 Ooze), so you don’t go fast (-1 Chrome Mox) and you try to stay away from the full-blown combo (-1 Buried Alive). You don’t really need information about their hand because you know they’re relying primarily on Deathrite Shaman/Cage/Spellbomb as their hate (-2 Gitaxian Probe).

BUG Control

As per BUG Delver. HOWEVER, if they’re playing Shardless BUG, they may sideboard into a Savannah and 4 Meddling Mage. If you realise they’re doing that, it can pay to bring in a Massacre or two! See the most recent Shardless lists for this (I believe a certain Jean-Mary Accart pioneered this most evil transformation).

OmniTell

-2 Necrotic Ooze, -1 Chrome Mox, -2 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Iona, Shield of Emeria +1 Thoughtseize +2 Surgical Extraction +1 Exhume

Your primary plan is to get Iona into play (+1 Iona -2 Ooze) naming Blue, because usually OmniTell is MonoU and even if they have Burning Wish they don’t usually have anything that can kill Iona in the board. You don’t need too much information (you know you’re naming SnT with T1 Therapy on the play and on the draw, and if they Brainstorm T1 on the draw in response to your therapy you’re naming Emrakul) (-2 Probe). You need disruption (+1 Thoughtseize +2 Surgical Extraction). You’re likely going to be trading discard/counterspells so it’s not going to be a fast matchup, and even if you do get a Griselbrand you have the option for Iona and not full combo so having that fast mana is less of an issue (Iona takes 2-3 mana, full combo takes 4-5 mana) (-1 Chrome Mox).

Sneak ‘n Show

As per OmniTell. Iona on Blue is usually the correct choice. USUALLY. Sometimes, if you know their hand, RED is correct because they could have no cantrips and be wanting to hardcast Sneak Attack/Through the Breach.

Infect

-1 Chrome Mox -2 Gitaxian Probe -1 Necrotic Ooze -1 Buried Alive
+3 Abrupt Decay +1 Thoughtseize +1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Iona again plays a major role in this matchup. Name GREEN. Then then cannot: (1) pump their creatures; or (2) Crop Rotate for Karakas (or Bojuka Bog, for that matter). If you manage to get Iona on Green, DO NOT put out a Bayou under any circumstances (they run Submerges and will get your Iona). Force them to get to five mana to hardcast that shit.

You’ll likely trade discard (+1 Thoughtseize) and get some of your stuff countered, so you don’t need speed (-1 Chrome Mox -1 Necrotic Ooze -1 Buried Alive).

Infect doesn’t have a single card that if you hit it with Extraction it will ruin them (unlike OmniShow, where you hit SnT and that’s game), so don’t board your Extractions.

MUD

-4 Gitaxian Probe -2 Reaminate -1 Ponder
+3 Abrupt Decay +2 Exhume +1 Necrotic Ooze +1 Thoughtseize

On the play, you know what you’re naming T1 with Therapy (CHALICE). If you can therapy T2, name LODESTONE GOLEM (4 Golem v 3 Trinisphere makes it a better call). You don’t care about much else at this point. Try and go off ASAP.

On the draw, you probably already got Chaliced T1. If you didn’t, and they had the mana to play it, name LODESTONE GOLEM (again, 4 Golem v 3 Trinisphere makes it a better call). Again, try and go off ASAP.

Deathblade

It’s difficult. They already have Deathrite Shaman, but because they’re in White for StP, you could see a combination of Rest in Peace, Containment Priest, Meddling Mage, or Grafdigger’s Cage. In order of likelihood, it’s probably going to be Mage and Priest tied for first, then RiP and Cage tied for second. Out of your hate, Abrupt Decay is most effective against all of these things, so they should all come in. If they are coming at you with creatures, bring in 2 Massacre. Try to get them to jam a Mage, bait out a Priest with something you can afford to have exiled, then Massacre their board. If they are coming at you with RiP, bring in Reverent Silence and do the usual thing against it. If they come at you with Cage, go the Ooze swing into Entombed Devourer route if you think they’ve boarded out StP. If they are coming at you with a combination of all these things, work with Decay as first preference.

I can’t give a hard and fast strategy for sideboarding in this matchup, it will depend on what you see and feel about the player. If you get the chance to scout, and you see a Deathblade player, pay particular attention to what they’re sideboarding if you can.

Stoneblade variants

-1 Necrotic Ooze -1 Chrome Mox -2 Gitaxian Probe -1 Buried Alive
+3 Abrupt Decay +2 Massacre

You will trade discard and get your stuff countered so you aren’t going fast (-1 Chrome Mox). They have StP so you are less likely to swing with Ooze into an Entombed Devourer win (-1 Necrotic Ooze). You’ll be seeing Grafdigger’s Cage, Rest in Peace, and Meddling Mage from the board (+3 Decay +2 Massacre). If they don’t have Mage, however, you won’t need Massacre, but you’ll always need Decay.

Burn

-3 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Iona +2 Exhume

You don’t need Probe. You don’t want to lose any more life than necessary and you are ALWAYS naming Eidolon blind. You need the Iona on Red, of course (+1 Iona), and more ways to get her into play quickly (+2 Exhume).

This is a race. You should usually win it.

LED Dredge

-4 Gitaxian Probe -1 Necrotic Ooze
+2 Surgical Extraction +1 Iona +2 Exhume

You don’t need to lose any unnecessary life (-4 Probe) and you know what you’re naming with Therapy on the play (LED). On the draw, you’re probably going to want to name Breakthrough. You need speed (leave Chrome Mox in) but you probably won’t be able to execute the Ooze/Entombed Devourer kill (-1 Ooze). If you can Surgical, take the thing that will slow them down the most in the situation.

This is a race. You should usually win it.

Manaless Dredge

Board as above. Always put them on the play in G2. Name FoW with Therapy, because that is all the deck seems to be playing these days to interact with us.
This is a race. You should usually win it.

Storm combo

-1 Chrome Mox -1 Necrotic Ooze -2 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Thoughtseize +2 Surgical Extraction +1 Iona

You want to avoid allowing them one less Storm to kill you (-2 Probe). You will trade discard and discard (+1 Thoughtseize) so you will be slow (-1 Chrome Mox). You want Iona (+1 Iona) but the colour you name is going to be highly situational. If you name Black, they can cantrip for their Chain of Vapor. If you name Blue, the can kill you without having to cast a Blue spell. You want to hit their Tendrils of Agony with Surgical Extraction (+2 Surgical) if you can catch it, but otherwise name LED or Dark Ritual with Therapy.

This is a race. I believe you are slightly more favoured, because if they discard the wrong thing they might actually help you. They play NO graveyard hate usually. But watch out for a surprise FLUSTERSTORM!

RUG Delver

-2 Gitaxian Probe -1 Chrome Mox -1 Necrotic Ooze
+3 Abrupt Decay +1 Iona

You won’t want Ooze on the field because of Bolt (-1 Ooze). You probably won’t be able to go fast and even if you do it will usually be with Griselbrand so you have lots of lifegain available and won’t need to try and win that turn (-1 Chrome Mox). You need Abrupt Decay for their Cage, Delver, and Goyf. Iona is surprisingly useful. If you can resolve it, name GREEN. This cuts them off Goyf and Goose, leaving them with only Delver, which you can block with Iona. Just be careful of DISMEMBER on your Iona after the Delver damage has been dealt. Also, there is usually a surprise Surgical Extraction in the board. However, with Iona, you can have multiple different ways to win, so you will probably be able to survive that.

It’s a nightmare matchup for most combo decks, including us, of course.

UR Delver

As per RUG Delver. Not as bad because they don’t play Green. Name RED with Iona, which leaves them with no outs, because they usually don’t run bounce.

This can be added to, revised, and eventually incorporated into the primer. One difference is that I almost never side out card selection (Brainstorm and Ponder) because they help you immensely in finding your hate cards, or what you need to play around the opponent’s hate cards.

Wish me luck!

[pandaman]

One additional thing which is in my opinion not sufficiently covered in the OP is the possibility to Reanimator-like work in the opponent's end step.

Example sequence:
D.Rit, Entomb/PImp Griselbrand, Shallow Grave, let the opponent pass the turn to you, untap lands to get the mana to combo off.

This can come "out of nowhere".

It sure can. Shallow Grave on a Griselbrand in the opponent's EoT is a great play and should be mentioned in the primer. As Raystar says, it's a living document, so we'll all be working on it.

Another fun way to win is discarding the combo in the cleanup step after Therapying away counterspells/things that will affect you and win in the opponent's upkeep with Entomb+Shallow Grave on Ooze. You sometimes need to do this because you don't hit enough mana off Griselbrand to win in your turn, but can utilise the discard step to get combo pieces you've draw in the yard and fast mana at instant speed in their upkeep. I have frustrated many an opponent with that, them untapping and going to draw thinking they've got a chance and me stopping them and instant-winning in their upkeep.

[pandaman]

On a totally separate topic, playing this deck last night, even though it didn't have Blue in it, made me realise what a fun, hilarious, interactive, and competitive deck it is. So I think I want to develop my collection so that I can have it built at all times. Thing is, I don't know if I want to pimp it. In fact, I am thinking that I should do the opposite and ANTI-PIMP it. So, my question to all of you readers is, what are the most ugly, anti-pimp cards for each card in this deck that I can use. Here's my list so far:

Necrotic Ooze - English non-foil
Triskelion - English 4th ed (because it's white-bordered)
Phyrexian Devourer - English Alliances (because it was only printed once)
Griselbrand - English non-foil (because all other versions are all much pimper)
Putrid Imp - Graveborn foil (because it's so ugly!)


Island and Swamps - no idea, need opinions on the ugliest art white-bordered versions of these
USeas and Bayous - English revised
Fetches - all new printings where available. English of course.
Lotus Petal - English non-foil (because the foil version is much pimper)
Dark Ritual - English fifth edition (UGLY!)
Chrome Mox - English non-foil

Brainstorm - 5th ed English of course (UGLY!)
Ponder - English latest version (the later the better)
Gitaxian Probe - English non-foil

Cabal Therapy, Entomb, Buried Alive, Exhume - Graveborn!
Reanimate - Battle Royale (white-bordered goodness)
Shallow Grave - English

There's nothing much you can do with the sideboard except to ensure the THoughtseize is Theros, the Iona and Extractions are MMII.

Then the deck would be truly disgusting. So, suggestions?

[Raystar]

I went to play to my LGS yesterday night and it wasn't my most successful trip with Oozing...

I finished 1-3...here you go with a quick report

R1: Shardless BUG

G1: easy win through Buried Alive+Reanimate
G2: I just can't see the light...I don't draw a single reanimation spell and my Ooze gets countered
G3: Mulligan to 6 and he has 2 pieces of discard a shaman and a Leyline...I manage to reanimate a Griselbrand but I'm only able to draw 7 before he casts the Leyline and I draw 3 lands and a Lotus Petal......

R2: Canadian

G1: I manage to shallow grave a Griselbrand through Daze, Spell Snare and Force of Will and I win from there.
G2: I make an idiotic mistake and I deserve to die
G3: I keep a bad hand and I don't see the light...again

R3: BUG Delver

G1: Mulligan to 6. He has two FoW in hand but I muddle the waters a bit and he can't understand what I'm playing until I buried alive and reanimate.
G2: Mulligan to 6.I manage to take counters out of his hand but I never see the missing combo pieces
G3: Mulligan to 5 and I manage to draw in sequence: Triskelion, Devourer and Griselbrand...he has Loam + Wasteland against my hand of 1 Bayou...not much to be done....

R4: Homebrew Storm

G1: I discard his manamorphose and he doesn't see any additional draw spell for a couple of turns while I have very little gas. He eventually manages to generate 18 goblins but I combo on my turn with Buried Alive + Shallow Grave
G2: I have Thoughtseize, Duress and Cabal Therapy and he never gets out of those

I'm not sure what happened yesterday night. I definitely played bad and made a ton of mistakes (playing after a day of work is probably not ideal), but it seemed that Oozing wasn't willing to co-operate with me...

Also: I need to remember that Shardless BUG players are now bringing in 4 Meddling Mage...gotta side in those Massacre next time...

[Dziga Murnau]

On a totally separate topic, playing this deck last night, even though it didn't have Blue in it, made me realise what a fun, hilarious, interactive, and competitive deck it is. So I think I want to develop my collection so that I can have it built at all times. Thing is, I don't know if I want to pimp it. In fact, I am thinking that I should do the opposite and ANTI-PIMP it. So, my question to all of you readers is, what are the most ugly, anti-pimp cards for each card in this deck that I can use. Here's my list so far:

Necrotic Ooze - English non-foil
Triskelion - English 4th ed (because it's white-bordered)
Phyrexian Devourer - English Alliances (because it was only printed once)
Griselbrand - English non-foil (because all other versions are all much pimper)
Putrid Imp - Graveborn foil (because it's so ugly!)


Island and Swamps - no idea, need opinions on the ugliest art white-bordered versions of these
USeas and Bayous - English revised
Fetches - all new printings where available. English of course.
Lotus Petal - English non-foil (because the foil version is much pimper)
Dark Ritual - English fifth edition (UGLY!)
Chrome Mox - English non-foil

Brainstorm - 5th ed English of course (UGLY!)
Ponder - English latest version (the later the better)
Gitaxian Probe - English non-foil

Cabal Therapy, Entomb, Buried Alive, Exhume - Graveborn!
Reanimate - Battle Royale (white-bordered goodness)
Shallow Grave - English

There's nothing much you can do with the sideboard except to ensure the THoughtseize is Theros, the Iona and Extractions are MMII.

Then the deck would be truly disgusting. So, suggestions?

Use Heavily Played and Damaged cards and play without protectors of course.
Funny thing is that I consider white-bordered Brainstorms and Triskelion a pimp, as I am crazy about clear, mint white-bordered cards.
So, without blue cantrips it still works? I was going to try it, but pretty tired of just adding the same 8 cantrips into each combo-deck I play.

[pandaman]

Of course it works without Blue. You'd have to find a better card/s for Sign in Blood, though, it was shit. I think White Border is OK, unless you get beat to shit ones like I'm planning to!

[pandaman]

And this isn't just ANY combo deck. It's Necrotic Ooze!

[Dziga Murnau]

Of course it works without Blue. You'd have to find a better card/s for Sign in Blood, though, it was shit. I think White Border is OK, unless you get beat to shit ones like I'm planning to!

For the manacost of Sign in Blood and no life loss you can play Sensei's Divining Top to draw the best out of three cards. And it's good, if things went grindy.
For just speeding up Probes are good. Also it can be okay for "presiding" some Decays, so our bad match-ups become much less difficult.

[Namida]

On a totally separate topic, playing this deck last night, even though it didn't have Blue in it, made me realise what a fun, hilarious, interactive, and competitive deck it is. So I think I want to develop my collection so that I can have it built at all times. Thing is, I don't know if I want to pimp it. In fact, I am thinking that I should do the opposite and ANTI-PIMP it. So, my question to all of you readers is, what are the most ugly, anti-pimp cards for each card in this deck that I can use.

If you want the deck to look truly awful, I would say that 4th Edition Triskelion is far more respectable to me than an M11 or a Duel Deck Triskelion, especially if your deck is filled with white bordered Dark Rituals and Brainstorms. I'd probably use a Graveborn Swamp and Islands from either a Duel Deck or whatever the newest set out is.

[pandaman]

Oh, Duel Deck Trisk, feral. I've gone one, it's going in.

[pandaman]

Also, Sign in Blood could definitely be Gitaxian Probe. At least you get to look at their hand and know when to just jam it. Dark Confidant is probably terrible in the sideboard, too, because removal gets left in. Maybe you could play an Iona or two and some more discard/Surgical Extraction. I wonder how Serum Powder would go (totally not serious about that last suggestion).

[pandaman]

Raystar, hard luck on your local. Sometimes it just doesn't come for you, and that's the nature of combo decks. Heads up, keep crushing MODO!

Also, what do you think of my proposed list and sideboarding strategies? I wrote that in haste with one hand while eating lunch so I don't think it's all going to be correct and accurate (both grammatically and strategically speaking) but I think it's going to serve me reasonably well. I haven't pulled out the Style and Class for a long while and there are a lot of new players who have entered the local Legacy scene in the meantime. Graveyard hate is also at an all time low. So it might just be a good choice. And I bloody love the deck, so as much fun as it would be to draw my entire deck and win with Laboratory Maniac, I am Oozing for sure.

I decided on a second Thoughtseize in the flex slot. I disagree with your choice of Duress - often they Brainstorm in response to your discard and if it's Thoughtseize Show and Tell I'll undoubtedly go on top. If they have the Omniscience it will too. Of course, if they have SnT and Emrakul they'll go on, but with Thoughtzeize you can take an Emrakul if they have all three but with Duress they'll leave Emrakul in hand and you can't touch it.

I've just been reviewing "Therapy Sessions" by Caleb Durward to fully sharpen up my Therapy game. I think I have it down.

[Raystar]

Raystar, hard luck on your local. Sometimes it just doesn't come for you, and that's the nature of combo decks. Heads up, keep crushing MODO!

Also, what do you think of my proposed list and sideboarding strategies? I wrote that in haste with one hand while eating lunch so I don't think it's all going to be correct and accurate (both grammatically and strategically speaking) but I think it's going to serve me reasonably well. I haven't pulled out the Style and Class for a long while and there are a lot of new players who have entered the local Legacy scene in the meantime. Graveyard hate is also at an all time low. So it might just be a good choice. And I bloody love the deck, so as much fun as it would be to draw my entire deck and win with Laboratory Maniac, I am Oozing for sure.

I decided on a second Thoughtseize in the flex slot. I disagree with your choice of Duress - often they Brainstorm in response to your discard and if it's Thoughtseize Show and Tell I'll undoubtedly go on top. If they have the Omniscience it will too. Of course, if they have SnT and Emrakul they'll go on, but with Thoughtzeize you can take an Emrakul if they have all three but with Duress they'll leave Emrakul in hand and you can't touch it.

I've just been reviewing "Therapy Sessions" by Caleb Durward to fully sharpen up my Therapy game. I think I have it down.

Hehe, when I woke up this morning (still hadn't got my coffee and I was planning to work from home) I started MODO and got my vengeance on a Junk player :wink:

I actually like your sideboarding strategy a lot, if you are ok with it I'll incorporate it in the primer. I've also started to hit the probes while sideboarding.

On the thoughtseize/duress topic: I see where you are coming from and I can concur. To be honest I think I'll stay on 1 thoughtseize and double the Iona...it's better than an additional discard against Omnitell and they are everywhere now...

[pandaman]

You know, that's not a bad idea, the second Iona. You can put it in off SnT if you have it in hand, them they HAVE to have that Emrakul or they are just stuck. I am lending my SnTs to my friend who's playing Sneak 'n Show with them, so it might be good against that, too. I've just always had so much success at destroying Omni and Storm with discard that I am fixated on Thoughtseize. I wouldn't even have the Iona in there if you hadn't been touting it so fervently. I trust your judgement and results with it.

[kombatkiwi]

It sure can. Shallow Grave on a Griselbrand in the opponent's EoT is a great play and should be mentioned in the primer. As Raystar says, it's a living document, so we'll all be working on it.

Another fun way to win is discarding the combo in the cleanup step after Therapying away counterspells/things that will affect you and win in the opponent's upkeep with Entomb+Shallow Grave on Ooze. You sometimes need to do this because you don't hit enough mana off Griselbrand to win in your turn, but can utilise the discard step to get combo pieces you've draw in the yard and fast mana at instant speed in their upkeep. I have frustrated many an opponent with that, them untapping and going to draw thinking they've got a chance and me stopping them and instant-winning in their upkeep.

It's probably worth mentioning (for the people new to the deck/thread) that sometimes when you do this you draw a bunch of cards off Ooze copying Griselbrand's ability (not Griselbrand itself), and if you got that Ooze into play from a Shallow Grave then it will get exiled before the end-of-turn discard and the combo won't work. (Which is another reason to play Putrid Imp).

But if you have another Shallow Grave in hand and another Ooze in the graveyard, you can get away with letting the original Ooze get exiled and in their upkeep reanimating another one

[Karhumies]

It's probably worth mentioning (for the people new to the deck/thread) that sometimes when you do this you draw a bunch of cards off Ooze copying Griselbrand's ability (not Griselbrand itself)...

It's also worth mentioning that a Grafdigger's Cage does not stop Necrotic Ooze from using a Griselbrand's ability from the graveyard. Something worth remembering if you use Reanimate into Griselbrand in game 1 and the opponent has no idea you are actually an Ooze deck, thinking you are Reanimator or Tin Fins instead.

[Raystar]

It's also worth mentioning that a Grafdigger's Cage does not stop Necrotic Ooze from using a Griselbrand's ability from the graveyard. Something worth remembering if you use Reanimate into Griselbrand in game 1 and the opponent has no idea you are actually an Ooze deck, thinking you are Reanimator or Tin Fins instead.

ssssshhhhhhhhhhhh....don't give away too many secrets :wink:

The same is valid for Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker that are often assigned to stop Griselbrand ability instead of the Ooze.

[lost_ronin_soul]

Just a thought. I been trying to make a modern deck list similar to what you are trying here. Tnstead of triskelion combo I go with Borborygmos Enraged and discard lands from grislebrand's draw effects. I don't know if borborygmos would enhance this legacy deck or not.

[pandaman]

It's been discussed, and the consensus is that it's not as good as Trisk/Devourer because it's not as efficient (you don't always have enough land to kill) and not castable (many of us win gamed with Triskelion and Devourer beats).

[Namida]

Just a thought. I been trying to make a modern deck list similar to what you are trying here. Tnstead of triskelion combo I go with Borborygmos Enraged and discard lands from grislebrand's draw effects. I don't know if borborygmos would enhance this legacy deck or not.

I don't think it would. My first thought is that one of the weaknesses of these sorts of renanimator decks is that you have to play a bunch of cards that aren't good to draw, and Borborygmos is a perfect example of that by being mostly uncastable in this deck--at least you have a chance in hell of reaching 6 mana to cast Triskelion or Phyrexian Devourer. What advantages do you believe Borborygmos has in this deck, to the extent that adding this dead draw becomes worth it?

[Karhumies]

Just a thought. I been trying to make a modern deck list similar to what you are trying here. ... Borborygmos Enraged

The cards I might try out from the Modern Ooze deck in Legacy would be Soul Spike and Fury of the Horde. However, those cards are win-more because they require a Griselbrand to function. They can be run in Modern because the Modern format lacks Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, etc. decent filtering effects and something has to be included to get up to 60 cards.

[Raystar]

The cards I might try out from the Modern Ooze deck in Legacy would be Soul Spike and Fury of the Horde. However, those cards are win-more because they require a Griselbrand to function. They can be run in Modern because the Modern format lacks Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, etc. decent filtering effects and something has to be included to get up to 60 cards.

I agree. The way the combo pan out in Oozing allows for a lot of alternative path to be followed; in order to be able to have that flexibility you basically need to be able to cast every card of your deck and have enough selection capability to switch from plan A to plan B. I like the modern combo version but I feel there is little space for it in Legacy, it gives me the impression that you are a bit too much on a single plan.

Thanks for the hint, though. It is always good to try to innovate.

[Raystar]

Changing topic a bit...I had an epic match yesterday night on MODO against UR Landstill, I'll publish the recorded game tonight. The highlight of the game is PImp beating under standstill forcing him to break it and closing the game casting ooze and entombing ALL the pieces of the combo through PImp after drawing half deck with Griselbrand and having lethal against on the board :)

[Kinky]

Hi I'm new here and thinking of building this deck.
I already play DnT, but i want something completely different.

I played Raystar on modo a couple of days ago (not the DnT player from the uploaded movies).
and thats when he told me about this thread.

what about playing a mox diamond instead of a chrome mox?
usualy when you draw with griselbrand you already play your land for that turn.

[Raystar]

Hi I'm new here and thinking of building this deck.
I already play DnT, but i want something completely different.

I played Raystar on modo a couple of days ago (not the DnT player from the uploaded movies).
and thats when he told me about this thread.

what about playing a mox diamond instead of a chrome mox?
usualy when you draw with griselbrand you already play your land for that turn.

Hey Kinky, I'm happy you liked the deck :)

The problem with the Mox Diamond is that it is slightly more difficult to cast if you have it in hand before going off with Griselbrand. The deck is a lot more dense in spell than lands and you may need all of your land drops. That said, I tried to build the deck on acceleration based on the Nic Fit package some time ago (yes, I'm crazy) and I was fitting a Mox Diamond in that case because of the higher density of lands.

[Karhumies]

What Raystar said. Post-Griselbrand, we get enough uncastables to feed the Chrome Mox. Diamond would be marginally better I guess but after drawing 7-14-21 cards it's win-more.

Pre-combo against tax counters we need the lands. If the opponent gets 2 for 1 by destroying our Mox, with Chrome Mox at least we still have the land for next turn instead of having cantrip for a land. Remember, to hardcast Ooze this deck will actually want to reach 4 lands consistently even though it's a fast combo deck at heart.

[Raystar]

Oozing against Esper Thopter Foundry...

G1: I'm very lucky, I go for it and he doesn't have/find a StP for my Ooze
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shn6EDWnhHQ

G2: Less lucky :) I don't find any removal for his Grafdigger's Cage, nor a Ooze...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyY8gitRRt4

G3: Oozing oozes...I win through: 3 FoW, 1 Cage, 1 StP :wink:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG_bdqrHtDE


I'm adding the videos to the Matchups section of the Primer.

For the record, I'm 79-49 with Oozing on MTGO :smile:

[pandaman]

Good record keeping Raystar. Have you been keeping a record of what your win/loss in particular matchups are? For example, low against Miracles but high against D&T?

[Raystar]

Good record keeping Raystar. Have you been keeping a record of what your win/loss in particular matchups are? For example, low against Miracles but high against D&T?

Correct. I'll try and put together some stats today.

[pandaman]

No hurry. It's the night before the Big Legacy event and I'm thinking more and more about the second Iona. There are gonna be two Burn decks, as well as possibly three Elves decks and three OmniTell decks.

[Raystar]

No hurry. It's the night before the Big Legacy event and I'm thinking more and more about the second Iona. There are gonna be two Burn decks, as well as possibly three Elves decks and three OmniTell decks.

Iona is game over in all of them, but you really need the second only against Omnitell.

[pandaman]

I think I stay with one then.

[Raystar]

I reviewed all the matches I played and broke out the matchups, the current table is:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39999027/MODO_Snap.jpg

It is evident that the worst matchups are blue based. Please note the following:


I'm not an exceptional players and many matches are lost to my poor skills
When I started to play on MTGO (and I started with Oozing) I lost some games due to not being proficient with the interface
The Oozing list has evolved and some matchups have improved


Even if I played many games the statistical sample is still too small, please use the Win% with a grain of salt.

I'll keep the list updated while I play.

[pandaman]

Ended up 3-2 missing T8 on resistance. It wasn't a good day, despite the winning record.

Lost R1 to Mono U Merfolk. First game kept a Swamp Ponder hand that needed one more combo piece. Petal into Ponder finds me the missing piece but the second mana source doesn't come for me (EV for the play was there).

G2 T1 Therapy FoW into Petal Rit Entomb and Shallow Grave Griz into reanimated Iona on Blue. Scoop.

G3 I have T1 on the draw (BA +Reanimate) but he has Island Cursecatcher. And then Phantasmal on cursecatcher. Eventually I assemble enough to play around them plus Daze, leaving FoW as his only out to stop me. He has it. I have a turn to top deck a reanimate spell but miss.

R2 Bye, so still in it.

R3 against BUG Delver. G1 on the draw kept a strange hand: USea USea Ooze x 2 and Buried Alive x 3. He came out with a Deathrite Shaman T1 into a Thoughtseize T2, and took a Necrotic Ooze. He played another Delver and a Tarmogoyf and started beating, but I drew two more lands during that time and after clearing the way with Therapy, cast Ooze and Buried Alive for the combo in successive turns. Double Deathrite does nothing against that, of course, so we're off to the second game.

G2 he plays Delver T1, Brainstorms to flip it T2 revealing Thoughtseize, plays a second Delver T2, flips on T3 to a Hymn to Tourach, and then Thoughtseizes and Hyms me while beating for six per turn. I'd played out a few lands and a Petal and had two Abrupt Decay, Buried Alive, Dark Ritual, and Entomb in hand after cantripping unsuccessfully for the other piece of the combo. I Decay a Delver to slow him down before losing all but my Dark Ritual to Thoughtseize and Hymn. Knock on the top of my deck, Buried Alive, which I use to get the combo. He plays and blind flips another Delver. Great, now I have two turns. Knock on the top of my deck, Ponder. Ponder into Exhume. Pass the turn, go to 3, then Exhume with enough to play around Daze. He brainstorms for the FoW but doesn't find it. 2-0 against one of the harder matchups.

R4 v BUG Control. This guy knows my deck backwards, we test a lot together. G1 on the play, and at the end of his T3 I Entomb a Griselbrand. He activates Deathrite on it (i.e. he's got a counter for any Shallow Grave I have) but I Shallow Grave anyway, because I've seen his hand and I know he must have Decay, Decay, FoW, Blue card (which he does) and I have an Ooze and Buried Alive in my hand. He counters the Shallow, I untap and cast Ooze to no resistance. Next turn Buried Alive and he hasn't drawn the counter. G2 he leads with Pithing Needle on Ooze. It's a one-of in his board. Great. I can't find a Decay and die. T3 on the play, I keep a hand with potential but no Decay. T1 Pithing Needle naming Ooze. IT'S A ONE OF IN HIS SIDEBOARD. I can't find Black mana or Green mana for the Decay I find and die. Major mana screw in G3, had to discard for four successive turns.

So at 2-2 I'm paired down and my opponent kindly scoops to me. We played it anyway - she was on Esper Standstill - and she beat me 2-1. Miss Top 8 on resistance, coming 10th.

So all in all I only really won one round all day, but the concession and bye make my record look positive. You'll note that all of the matchups were against Blue. This mirrors Raystar's findings that Blue is the difficult colour and the deck romps over anything else.

List was:

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Griselbrand
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
1 Exhume

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

Sideboard (15)

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Exhume
2 Massacre
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Necrotic Ooze

Boarding was as posted earlier.

Sorry I couldn't rep the deck better, guys :(

[Namida]

Don't worry, I got you covered. I just came back from an event; I finished the event in second place. My list was the list in the primer; my 15th Sideboard slot was a Pithing Needle.

Round 1 I played against Dragon Stompy. Game 1 my opponent casts Thundermaw Hellkite on Turn 1 and Magus of the Moon on Turn 2. I had basics but I couldn't assemble the kill before I died. Game 2 my opponent plays Chalice on 1 (it has been a loooong time since I have been in a tournament and not lost to Chalice at least once), but I can still win. I did something to bin a creature, my opponent says "Oh, you're Reanimator?" and promptly Chalices for 2 on his next turn. I conceded a little prematurely because I could have still drawn and cast an Ooze, but looking at my next draws it wasn't going to happen.

Round 2 I played against some sort of weird green deck. My opponent goes Turn 1 Forest, Deathrite Shaman. I recall my opponent casting Natural Order for Terastodon in this game, destroying three of his lands, and then I just comboed out because he had to tap his Deathrite to do it. In the next game my opponent casts Turn 1 Cage. Deal. I Probe my opponent to see 2 Chrome Mox, a Natural Order, another green card, and another Cage. I made him discard his second Cage because I had an Abrupt Decay and the combo in hand, but in hindsight that was wrong not only because I also had the ability to just cast an Ooze and Buried Alive for the other pieces, but also because if he drew another mana he could Natural Order for Terastodon, destroy my lands, and then I couldn't do anything. But what actually happened was that he Natural Ordered for Progenitus, and he found out that 10/10 Pro Everything doesn't beat an arbitrarily large Ooze.

Round 3 I played against Mono Black. I don't recall the games well, but he had Deathrite in his deck and no green mana to activate it for my creatures so he died pretty handily. (Sidenote: None of us knew what Phyrexian Devourer's Japanese name was, so for the rest of my rounds we called it the Phyrexian Rice Ball because it's shaped like one.)

Round 4 I played against Punishing Jund. Game 1 he plays Turn 1 Forest, Deathrite Shaman. I draw Dark Ritual for my turn to kill him on Turn 1. I thought he was Elves so I sideboarded accordingly. He mulligans to 4 and it just doesn't fucking matter because he has lots of varied hate so I can't kill him normally, and I draw at least half of my lands and never draw Ooze. I never put anything in my graveyard this game, but my opponent ended this game with Rakdos Charm and Extirpate in hand, with Scavenging Ooze in play and I saw at least one Pithing Needle and a Grafdigger's Cage when he was shuffling. Yeesh. Game 3 I draw just as many lands, my opponent draws Extirpate, and I'm just trying to find an Ooze so I can cast it and make it big. I draw Griselbrand and cast it. I leave it back as a wall for my opponent's Tarmogoyfs and stuff for one turn, and that was a mistake because my opponent drew Liliana (which I figured there was no way he had room for it given all of the ridiculous hate I had already seen).

Round 5 I play against Deathblade. Game 1 I sodomize him with an Ooze attack. using Dark Ritual to pay for the Spell Pierce I knew my opponent had. Game two my opponent makes me discard Entomb. I Blind Therapy for Rest in Peace on my first turn to see that my opponent has Brainstorm, 2 Swords to Plowshares, 2 Deathrite Shaman. My opponent plays both of his Deathrite Shamans and also gets a Stoneforge Mystic down. I go to Massacre but he Brainstorms into a Force and a blue card. Deathrites chip at my life total slowly, and I find a Cabal Therapy to strip the Swords to Plowshares away. The final turns of the game goes like this: I cast a Necrotic Ooze with Dark Ritual. I cast Entomb for Phyrexian Devourer, and end my turn. My opponent activates Deathrite to remove Devourer. I use the ability on Devourer to add 23 counters to my Ooze. My opponent untaps and attacks with Batterskull and a Stoneforge Mystic with Sword of Fire and Ice attached. I eat Stoneforge. I untap and Buried Alive for Triskelion and deal my opponent enough damage to kill him.

I'm 3-2, which barely gets me into the Top 8.

I play against Death and Taxes in the Quarterfinals. My opponent mulligans, and their opening hand is Mother of Runes, Phyrexian Revoker, and lands. I cast a Turn one Ooze and just hope my opponent doesn't draw Swords. Swords is his next draw, basically. I messed this game up, and here's how: My opponent has Spirit of the Labyrinth, two Mother of Runes, and a Phyrexian Revoker in play. I reanimate a Triskelion, kill off the Spirit, then cast Ponder. Ponder finds my second Reanimate so I use another counter to kill Revoker and I Reanimate it going to 6 life and I name Mother of Runes. My opponent topdecks Stoneforge Mystic for Jitte and the Jitte ruins me. I could have named cards other than Mother of Runes because 1/1s don't matter, or I could have just not reanimated the Revoker because Triskelion was big enough to deter attacks and I could have just reanimated it again when it died--but I didn't do those things. Luckily, I got a Turn 1 Kill in the next game. I messed this game up too though--I had Shallow Graved a Griselbrand and drew the whole Ooze Combo in my first 7, but I dealt my opponent the full 20 with Triskelion's ability instead of attacking with Griselbrand, and somewhere between the 13th and 20th counters I put on my Ooze I basically revealed every sideboard card I brought in. Game 3 was really messed up. My opponent played a Spirit of the Labyrinth and a Stoneforge Mystic getting a Jitte. I use Dark Ritual to hardcast Triskelion, kill the Spirit, deal 1 to the Mystic, and 1 to the Triskelion to kill it, and then I reanimate it to deal lethal damage to the Mystic. At this point my opponent has Serra Avenger and Flickerwisp in hand, but his lands are two Wastelands and a Karakas so he uses his mana to Waste my duals. It doesn't matter at all--3/3 Triskelion deals the full 20, and I even had two Shallow Graves in hand to get more value out of it if he ever drew Swords. He was basically never sticking a creature in that game either way.

I play against the same Jund player in the Semifinals. This guy is literally shitting himself at the idea of playing against me again, which is absurd to me because he has already beaten me after mulliganning to 4, and I reiterate: his deck has Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, Grafdigger's Cage, Pithing Needle, Extirpate and Rakdos Charm after board. Game one I mulligan to six to a hand that can cast a Turn 1 Ooze. I'm 8th seed though, so my opponent Thoughtseizes me. My next two draws are Ooze (I cast it), and Entomb for Devourer. My luck is strong. Game 2, my opponent opens on Forest, Deathrite again, but he gets impatient and dies to a Shallow Graved Griselbrand when he feels compelled to use the Deathrite for mana to stick a threat instead of giving me infinite time to stick an Ooze.

In the Finals, I play against Soldier Stompy. My opponent plays turn on Chalice on 1, and I am unperturbed because I have Buried Alive and Shallow Grave in hand, but on the turn before I'm able to cast Shallow Grave, my opponent topdecks Suppression Field. Game 2 I get caught with Surpression Field and Thorn of Amethyst. I have an Ooze in play with a Griselbrand in the graveyard, with three lands and I'm facing down a Captain of the Watch and an Enlistment Officer. I untap, pay 2 to use Griselbrand's ability, but I fail to hit a Massacre nor a Reverent Silence so I die.

So the deck did much better than I expected--to be honest, I wasn't expecting much, I just wanted to switch things up because they know I'm the combo guy so I have to keep them guessing somehow. That being said, I was blown away by how many times my opponent had graveyard hate and I could just opt to not give a damn because the deck can cast Necrotic Ooze. I lost to an opponent with a metric ton of hate, but if I just hadn't drawn five land in a row he was still completely dead.

[pandaman]

Woohoo! Great report. Especially loving the Triskelion tricks. We're all getting better at them. I enjoy that look on the opponent's face when they lose their creatures to the artifact menace. It's worth mentioning that Jund is now very well equipped to deal with combo post-board, especially graveyard decks. You have to be very careful.

[Raystar]

You guys rock!!

I'm thinking to try the following SB:

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
2 Massacre
2 Exhume
1 Thoughseize/Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Desecrator Demon

It's not going to help against Miracle and not having Iona will make us a bit weaker against some matchup but the 3 demons should improve our matchup against tempo (RUG and BUG) immensely. Between other things the demons are pretty cheap on MODO so I can test right away :wink:

[Raystar]

I'm keeping an updated table of the matchups I make on MODO in the initial page.

If you want we could put together another table with the tournament results similar to that one, I only need for you to provide me the data points to create it (list of played matchups+results).

[Kanti]

Sorry for asking again (you've wrote a little about this subject in the primer) but what are the benefits of running this over traditional Reanimator? You lose FoW and seem to need way more pieces in the gy. Not trying to be condescending, as I'm sure you have played UB Reanimator, and by reading your posts it leads me to beleive you're not investing your time into the deck because it's your pet deck, but like the creators of TinFins beleive you're onto something better.

[pandaman]

I'd just answer your question by referring to the primer. Reanimator can't beat an active Deathrite Shaman without finding Pithing Needle or bouncing it. Oozing can. Same with Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, or Nihil Spellbomb. Also, when Reanimator reanimates a creature, it doesn't win the game. Oozing does. Reanimator has no instant speed reanimation, unlike, Oozing, making it a more predictable deck.

[kombatkiwi]

I'd just answer your question by referring to the primer. Reanimator can't beat an active Deathrite Shaman without finding Pithing Needle or bouncing it. Oozing can. Same with Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, or Nihil Spellbomb. Also, when Reanimator reanimates a creature, it doesn't win the game. Oozing does. Reanimator has no instant speed reanimation, unlike, Oozing, making it a more predictable deck.

Ooze Pros
- The combo is far more resilient to graveyard hate (Can combo off through Tormod's Crypt, Relic, Extraction, DRS, Cage etc)
- Can hardcast a 4/3 and attack/block with it
- Flexibility of Instant-Speed reanimate spells
- Instantly win upon reanimation (You don't have to worry about your opponent comboing off on their turn or Liliana eating your guy or your fatty getting Karakas-bounced)

Ooze Cons
- Slow (Needs multiple specific pieces in the graveyard to combo, so while Reanimator can play a higher density of threats (4 Griselbrand + Iona + Elesh + Whatever) and bin them for U with careful study, Ooze often needs to set up by paying 2B for Buried Alive) (This is somewhat offset by the fact that you play rituals and Reanimator doesn't).
- No counterspells (This is less important when you can win the game on the spot but still obviously worth mentioning)
- No "Silver Bullet" reanimate targets (although most people are playing a couple of them in Ooze as a sort of transformational sideboard: normally they are not good when put into play with Shallow Grave)

[Raystar]

Ooze Pros
- The combo is far more resilient to graveyard hate (Can combo off through Tormod's Crypt, Relic, Extraction, DRS, Cage etc)
- Can hardcast a 4/3 and attack/block with it
- Flexibility of Instant-Speed reanimate spells
- Instantly win upon reanimation (You don't have to worry about your opponent comboing off on their turn or Liliana eating your guy or your fatty getting Karakas-bounced)

Ooze Cons
- Slow (Needs multiple specific pieces in the graveyard to combo, so while Reanimator can play a higher density of threats (4 Griselbrand + Iona + Elesh + Whatever) and bin them for U with careful study, Ooze often needs to set up by paying 2B for Buried Alive) (This is somewhat offset by the fact that you play rituals and Reanimator doesn't).
- No counterspells (This is less important when you can win the game on the spot but still obviously worth mentioning)
- No "Silver Bullet" reanimate targets (although most people are playing a couple of them in Ooze as a sort of transformational sideboard: normally they are not good when put into play with Shallow Grave)

Very good analysis Kombatkiwi. Just a couple of points on your "cons" items 1 and 3:

1) I wouldn't call Oozing "slow", it is actually significantly faster than Reanimator. I often win T1 or T2.
3) Oozing uses Iona in the sideboard for the "silver bullet" effect. There are also 2 Exhume that come in together with Iona in the place of Shallow Grave.

@Kanti. In general, the way Oozing behaves is a mix between ANT and Reanimator. As Panda and Kombatkiwi have said, one of the best parts of Oozing is being able to work around some of the GY hate. What makes it really compelling to me is the fact that it is capable of changing gears in a moment when an opening presents itself and kill on the spot like ANT does. There is also a lot of flexibility in the deck allowing you to get out of very sticky situations in completely unpredictable ways.

As you already mentioned, the closest deck to Oozing is Tin Fins, they are both "headshot" decks and make use of similar mechanics to implement slightly different strategies.

Is it better than Reanimator? I don't know. To me is not only a matter of which is the strongest deck, it is also having the chance to play a deck that makes you think more and rewards akward lines of play instead of providing an almost always predictable game play.

As it is often said in these cases, if you already have some Reanimator experience, I'd suggest to try Oozing to touch the differences by yourself...the deck is a blast to play :wink:

[pandaman]

Yup. People are genuinely scared of me when I play the deck because their hate just doesn't interact in the same way with Oozing as with a normal graveyard deck. The look on people's faces when you kill them through their multiple hate pieces is priceless. You will love it.

[Kanti]

Raystar, what would make this deck "significantly faster"? To put it simply I haven't really played with Reanimator for a while, so feel like this deck is the damn Doomsday of Reanimator. I got a Griselbrand out the other day, and could not win. I went something like Therapy myself, Reanimate, draw 7, flashback Therapy (sac Griselbrand), Petal, Ritual, Therapy (for StP), Shallow Grave, swing with Grisel, draw 14, still no combo.

[Raystar]

Raystar, what would make this deck "significantly faster"? To put it simply I haven't really played with Reanimator for a while, so feel like this deck is the damn Doomsday of Reanimator. I got a Griselbrand out the other day, and could not win. I went something like Therapy myself, Reanimate, draw 7, flashback Therapy (sac Griselbrand), Petal, Ritual, Therapy (for StP), Shallow Grave, swing with Grisel, draw 14, still no combo.

That is very unfortunate, you generally combo right there after 21 cards or during the opponent upkeep. In the worst case you just shred their hand with multiple discard pieces and combo out during your next turn. I don't have an answer for you, not having been there to see the situation, but it is really rare that you don't see what you need in those cases.

In general the game is over when Griselbrand hits the table. If I understand your case you were forced to resummon after an unfortunate 7 cards draw and this costed you 3 very precious resources (1 Petal, 1 Ritual and a reanimation spell) that you probably missed in the subsequent 14 cards.

There are some fringe cases in the posted videos that show "creative" decision trees after the Griselbrand draw, I'd suggest you take a look at them and get a feeling. I'll review the videos tonight and point you to a list of the more interesting ones.

[Kanti]

Just have to pop back in this thread to say that I won from a hardcast Devourer today vs DnT. I actually tried to kill him with Devourer in g2 as well as he StPd my t2 Griselbrand, and then StPd a Triskellion I reanimated to wipe his board of Thalia, Revoker, and Mom. I didn't make it that time, but g3 I somehow set myself up to 6 mana, then hardcast a Devourer after I drew 14 from a Necrotic Ooze w/ Griselbrand in the gy (he had a Containment Priest in hand, woo). He StPd the Ooze, but I just untapped, harcaster Devourer, and had a hand of like Shallow Grave x2, Abrupt Decay x2, x1 Massacre, and some other goodies. I basically just wrathed him and proceeded to Decay anything of value he had, all while having protection from another StP as Devourer protects itself. Pretty sure I coulda Shallow Graves>hasted Devourer if he even drew one out.

Icing on the cake? I drew a Putrid Imp the next turn and cast that as well. 2/2 with flying for B? Sure.

[Raystar]

Just have to pop back in this thread to say that I won from a hardcast Devourer today vs DnT. I actually tried to kill him with Devourer in g2 as well as he StPd my t2 Griselbrand, and then StPd a Triskellion I reanimated to wipe his board of Thalia, Revoker, and Mom. I didn't make it that time, but g3 I somehow set myself up to 6 mana, then hardcast a Devourer after I drew 14 from a Necrotic Ooze w/ Griselbrand in the gy (he had a Containment Priest in hand, woo). He StPd the Ooze, but I just untapped, harcaster Devourer, and had a hand of like Shallow Grave x2, Abrupt Decay x2, x1 Massacre, and some other goodies. I basically just wrathed him and proceeded to Decay anything of value he had, all while having protection from another StP as Devourer protects itself. Pretty sure I coulda Shallow Graves>hasted Devourer if he even drew one out.

Icing on the cake? I drew a Putrid Imp the next turn and cast that as well. 2/2 with flying for B? Sure.

Told you :smile:

The deck can win in unpredictable ways, this is what makes it different from the rest of the GY feeding family.

[pandaman]

Raystar, what would make this deck "significantly faster"? To put it simply I haven't really played with Reanimator for a while, so feel like this deck is the damn Doomsday of Reanimator. I got a Griselbrand out the other day, and could not win. I went something like Therapy myself, Reanimate, draw 7, flashback Therapy (sac Griselbrand), Petal, Ritual, Therapy (for StP), Shallow Grave, swing with Grisel, draw 14, still no combo.

Unfortunate draws there. The reason Oozing is faster is it can kill T1 and do so without needing to use the combat phase.

Drawing 21 cards in a turn has always delivered me: (a) a combo win that turn; (b) a combo win in the opponent's next upkeep through discarding combo pieces and instant speed Dark Ritual/s, Entomb/s and Shallow Grave; or (c) an opponent with no relevant cards in hand courtesy of Therapy and the win in hand for the next turn.

I'd be curious to see what you drew in the 21. You have to be very careful in the combo turn because there a lot of little tricks available. For example, not playing a non-Blue land until after drawing with Griselbrand to enable a Brainstorm into possibly game-ending cards and a possible Entomb shuffle after.

[Raystar]

Nice match against Esper Blade in the next two videos.

G1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEvo4NhlRzI

G2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjS5c4_wndI

@Kanti, both games show a "liberal" use of Griselbrand fueled draws. During the second he quits when I cast the Massacre just drawn from Griselbrand ability.

[kombatkiwi]

The line in the second game where you sac Ooze to Therapy yourself was so sweet.

In that game did you consider using the ritual to cast Buried Alive instead of Ooze on your 3rd turn with the plan of untapping and casting Shallow Grave for the win on the 4th turn? It worked out in the end but assuming you have 3rd turn Ooze you can't win on turn 4 because you know your next draw is Brainstorm (not to mention if your Brainstorm doesn't find a mana source you're almost completely boned).

Just wondering if I'm missing something.

[Raystar]

The line in the second game where you sac Ooze to Therapy yourself was so sweet.

In that game did you consider using the ritual to cast Buried Alive instead of Ooze on your 3rd turn with the plan of untapping and casting Shallow Grave for the win on the 4th turn? It worked out in the end but assuming you have 3rd turn Ooze you can't win on turn 4 because you know your next draw is Brainstorm (not to mention if your Brainstorm doesn't find a mana source you're almost completely boned).

Just wondering if I'm missing something.

It could have been a legitimate play. My reasoning post-side is generally to play a Ooze before putting anything in the GY, the reason is that ooze is replaceable, what I put in the GY is not...

In this case it wouldn't have mattered, but I was being overcautios.

[pandaman]

I agree with Raystar, Ooze on the battlefield is incredibly valuable because you resolve a Buried Alive and you win (or an Entomb if you attack unblocked and opp. doesn't have removal). Often, you can get in for lethal with Ooze because opp. has kept a hand so focussed on stopping the combo through the GY that they can't interact with the battlefield, only the stack. People often think I'm crazy when I take StP with Thoughtseize leaving a hand full of Flusterstorm/Pierce, only to be left in dismay when I hard cast Ooze and then next turn use all my spare mana to play an Entomb around said Flusterstorm/Pierce and win.

[pandaman]

Another tip: do not, where possible, show: (a) the hardcast Ooze play; or (b) the attacking Ooze into Entomb for Devourer play in G1. I always try to go through the GY in G1 to influence opp.'s boarding to combat that.

[Raystar]

Another tip: do not, where possible, show: (a) the hardcast Ooze play; or (b) the attacking Ooze into Entomb for Devourer play in G1. I always try to go through the GY in G1 to influence opp.'s boarding to combat that.

I actually do the same :wink:

[pandaman]

You gotta watch us cagey older fellas.

[Raystar]

Nice video of a G3 against D&T...Oozing at its best :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWsAprFR1VE

Every once in a while you get these gems...I love this deck :)

[Dziga Murnau]

Why so many losses against delvers and Miracles? What's the problem?

[Raystar]

Why so many losses against delvers and Miracles? What's the problem?

We play combo and they play countermagic...

[pandaman]

Also, I'm not the best Magic player out there, which I'm sure contributes too.

[Raystar]

Also, I'm not the best Magic player out there, which I'm sure contributes too.

...you....you....you have just stolen my trademark!!!!!!

:wink:

[pandaman]

Nahahaha!

[pandaman]

Honestly, I need to hone my playskill online, I know I would get better simply from the more volume of practise. Hey Raystar, do you still think about a list with counterspells? I sometimes do... something along the lines of the old list with only Buried Alive for the combo, before Griselbrand came along. It would require a Blue shell of course:

I present to you, a Pandaman 61-card special, fuelled by 5 hours sleep, copious playtesting with a totally unrelated deck yesterday, and my morning coffee:

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Delver
1 Triskelion
1 Aquamoeba
1 Griselbrand

4 Shallow Grave
1 Exhume
1 Reanimate

4 Entomb
2 Buried Alive

1 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
4 Polluted Delta
3 Ux Fetches
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

Sideboard (15)

4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
7 x

EDIT: Painter/Stone combo is so much stupider than SnT/Emrakul. You take out the main Ooze combo postboard, leaving in the Entomb+Shallow Grave into Griselbrand only, and bring in PainterStone.

EDIT: This is so stupid I'm actually going to test it.

[Raystar]

Honestly, I need to hone my playskill online, I know I would get better simply from the more volume of practise. Hey Raystar, do you still think about a list with counterspells? I sometimes do...

I also do...a lot.

The problem is that running FoW means raising the amount of U cards in the deck. We could probably get away with playing 3 FoW and a Pact of Negation (or stifles, I like stifles) in place of the Probes. Additionally we could go down 1 Ooze (this I don't like) to add another counter (not FoW, flusterstorm? Pierce?). The therapies would have to change into Thoughtseize.

I'm not sure I like it, though. The probes act as cantrip 9-12 and are often key to go through a critical Ponder. To be honest I have always stopped just before testing the addition of counters, I'm not sure they would provide a real edge when we play against our bad matchups (they pack way more permission than we would be capable to) and against the rest, well...we don't seem to have many problems :wink:

I'm also hoping that DTT will hit the ground with a ban (the card is nuts beyond belief...), that would lower the Miracles presence and raise again the number of BUG decks. This would also work against RUG decks that are a very good matchup for BUG...and BUG is one of the best of our bad matchups.

I'm testing Desecration Demon in the sideboard but during the last week I haven't played a lot (work is killing me) and I played against everything except Tempo decks...as soon as I have better data I'll let you guys know.

In an ideal meta with a DtB setup like this: BUG, RUG, ANT, D&T, Elves (assuming Miracles going down without DTT) we would be capable to offer very very good results...we have a very good matchup against ANT, Elves and D&T, we can play against BUG and we only really suffer against RUG.

To provide a better answer (I was a bit of a dick before) to the question "why do we have such a bad matchup against certain decks" I can offer this: the real bad matchups are Miracles, RUG and UWR. These decks can be divided in two groups:


Miracle: they have a ton of control and they can almost lock us out with CB+Top. Post-side they bring in RiP and Vendilion adding clock to their hate. Barring a very fast start, Oozing plays in catchup mode.
RUG and UWR: the problem here is that they can also hit us on the strategy that generally hurts BUG: they have good removal against the Ooze in addition to a very good clock. UWR, post-side becomes a real problem with Meddling Mage and RiP.


EDIT: you edited while I was writing :smile:

[pandaman]

Funnily enough, BUG is easier than RUG/American Delver BECAUSE it as Shaman. It's like a person approaching you to hold you up with a gun - the fact they have the weapon gives them enough of a false sense of power that they don't see your disarmament technique coming.

[Raystar]

Ok, I'll bite...what about:

2 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

2 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Aquamoeba
1 Griselbrand

4 Shallow Grave
1 Exhume
1 Reanimate

4 Entomb
2 Buried Alive

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
4 Polluted Delta
3 Ux Fetches
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

This way you have a ton of disruption, you can still play at least 2 Oozes and still stay on 15 lands....

[pandaman]

Well, let's give it a crack when we get the chance. The problem with U is that the maindeck gets so tight. What do you take out to board? I think, therefore, U leads to transformational side boarding, like my original Ooze list used to do.

[Kanti]

Don't think you need counters, but definately think the deck needs more than CT+GP as protection. Cutting some GP's for Thoughtseize could be an idea. I've cut one before I even tested the original list and have more than happy whenever I have drawn it. Never once wanted it to be a Gitaxian Probe.

[pandaman]

I was never a Probe fan, but am giving it the time of day on Raystar Sensei's recommendation. My usual suite is 4 Seize 3 Therapy, with a fourth in SB. But Probe is good and it says "draw a card" on it.

[Kanti]

Whats you current list look like? I thought you were playing the op. If you aren't playing with 3-4 Probes are you playing with the 16th land?

[pandaman]

Current list is as per my tournament report a few posts ago. The list I used to previously make the elimination rounds was slightly different in all three incarnations. The first two times I maxed out on combo pieces and only had four Thoughtseize maindeck for disuprtion (boarding in three Therapies). Then I moved to three Therapy two Thoughtseize two Probe (boarding the fourth therapy and Thoughtseize 3 and 4). The former config got me Top 4 and 8 and the latter top 2, all in 5-rounders. We always go round and round with the disruption question, because sometimes you just don't need it because you can assemble more ways to combo than opp. has ways to stop you and before they kill you. I think that's why the 4 Thoughtseize build succeeded despite seeming "weak." And I must admit I was playing much more regularly with the deck back then and was much more familiar with it.

[Raystar]

I was never a Probe fan, but am giving it the time of day on Raystar Sensei's recommendation. My usual suite is 4 Seize 3 Therapy, with a fourth in SB. But Probe is good and it says "draw a card" on it.

*goes to hide after the Sensei thing...

The probe thing is not a million times better than a full discard suite configuration...to me it's "a little bit" better. Against a deck that packs counterspells you need to know which route to take and being able to do it on T1 for free is amazing. The "draw a card" story is incredibly good for Oozing, we can't pack 10 cantrips like ANT does (they also play the probes in addition to those, btw) and not having the probes reduces the consistency of the deck...a lot.

[pandaman]

I would argue it's playable without Probes, but essentially you're playing a 56 card deck if you have them. Which would be good but the free information is amazing. However, I don't mind grinding a bit harder knowing you have seven discard slots maindeck. You have go trust in the Ooze for it to work, though.

[Karhumies]

Back in the day, in a FoW list with transformational SB, I used to run MD Lim-Dul's Vault. Hits everything pre and post SB, pitches to FoW, as long as you are not looking for a 1-of you can typically afford the life loss.

-1 card yes, but tutors as an instant in opponent's end step to top of library. As a t2 play to set up t3 mana accel + BA + animation it used to be nice due to hitting everything.



If you want to go a wackier route, try 4x FoW in the SB against faster, less consistent combos. They come in g2 on the draw.

[Raystar]

Back in the day, in a FoW list with transformational SB, I used to run MD Lim-Dul's Vault. Hits everything pre and post SB, pitches to FoW, as long as you are not looking for a 1-of you can typically afford the life loss.

-1 card yes, but tutors as an instant in opponent's end step to top of library. As a t2 play to set up t3 mana accel + BA + animation it used to be nice due to hitting everything.



If you want to go a wackier route, try 4x FoW in the SB against faster, less consistent combos. They come in g2 on the draw.

Ok, diagonal thinking here: what if instead of LDV we try DTT?

[Raystar]

Ok, diagonal thinking here: what if instead of LDV we try DTT?

Or even crazier...what if we get rid of Griselbrand and we pack 4 DTT?

[Raystar]

Or even crazier...what if we get rid of Griselbrand and we pack 4 DTT?

I think this is a stupid suggestion, btw. In any case if LDV makes sense, then DTT makes even more...

[Raystar]

I think this is a stupid suggestion, btw. In any case if LDV makes sense, then DTT makes even more...

To put my money where my mouth is:


3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Dig Through Time

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive
4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate

3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

1 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
1 Triskelion


Of course it needs to be tested...

[Poron]

dig through time is great also to remove cards from your graveyard alone.

Shallow Grave takes the top card of your graveyard. something can always go wrong...

[Raystar]

dig through time is great also to remove cards from your graveyard alone.

Shallow Grave takes the top card of your graveyard. something can always go wrong...

That is not a very common occurrence but yes, it could help. It can also buy a couple of turns against a Goyf or deactivate damage/mana for a Shaman...

[pandaman]

I am a big LDV fan but can't find space right now. The eight cantrips are just too good. I would love to make DTT work here, but I hate the UU thing in a deck that combos with B because I can't run it out on basics. At the moment the deck is miraculously resilient to Wasteland and I wouldn't want to change if unless we got something good in exchange. DTT might just be that thing.

[Kanti]

*goes to hide after the Sensei thing...

The probe thing is not a million times better than a full discard suite configuration...to me it's "a little bit" better. Against a deck that packs counterspells you need to know which route to take and being able to do it on T1 for free is amazing. The "draw a card" story is incredibly good for Oozing, we can't pack 10 cantrips like ANT does (they also play the probes in addition to those, btw) and not having the probes reduces the consistency of the deck...a lot.

Well the idea is that you will still know which route to take after hitting off a discard spell t1. If I'm not doing anything on t1 except casting GP and leaving a mana-open I probably should just be casting a discard spell. Probe sometimes feels like I've just cast Duress against DnT- I can see the Thalia, I just can't touch her. That said it cantrips, gives information, and is FREE. I have loved the Probes so far, but don't think that a list with 7 discard spells would be worse by much, especially as Probe doesn't have much value in this deck with Griselbrand, as far as I can see at least.

[pandaman]

The Probe/Grisel incompatibility is also annoying. Honestly, I feel more comfortable when I draw discard and can interact rather than Probe (unless of course I have a Therapy in hand!). But my Therapy sniping is strong, so I don't mind even a full suite without Probe. In the end, I don't know if the probe/no probe debate will ever be solved for us...

[Kanti]

I'm testing 4 Cabal, 3 Thoughtseize, 1 Preordain (Ponder #5). Liking it so far. Again, the thought process is I'll get to see their hand just as oftern (almost, as 4CB+4GP=8, whereas 4CB+3TS=7) as a build with GP but to try to fit more interaction. Not sure why I slotted in preordain, but it's mostly because I don't consider BS a 1cc cantrip in any deck, even fast decks like this where it's usually better off cast in the main-phase, and with that said feel that 4 Ponder is too few sometimes. I have really been addicted to running a 5th copy of cards lately, as there are many 4-ofs I wish I could 5-of in many decks, and virtual copies sometimes exist for them. The Preordain could probably be another land, as well.

[pandaman]

Kanti, would be interested in your list. Especially what you have cut for the Preordain.

[Raystar]

I'm going to start test the following sideboard:

2 Boseiju
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
2 Exhume
1 Iona
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress/Thoughtseize
2 Massacre

Let's see how it goes...

[Poron]

Probe in a Griselbrand/Reanimate deck seems less than optimal.. sure cantrips are great for DTT...
I would play Duress probably

[Raystar]

Probe in a Griselbrand/Reanimate deck seems less than optimal.. sure cantrips are great for DTT...
I would play Duress probably

I would suggest to try it...they are a lot more important than they appear. Btw, you only have 2 reanimate and they are mostly used on an Ooze...

[Kanti]

Kanti, would be interested in your list. Especially what you have cut for the Preordain.

Hey, you just take the OP's list and go -4 GProbe, +2 TS, +2 Preordain. That's where I'm at right now, though I'm going to start testing -4 GProbe, +3 Thoughtseize, +1 Fetchland as I think this is probably better.

[pandaman]

Hey, you just take the OP's list and go -4 GProbe, +2 TS, +2 Preordain. That's where I'm at right now, though I'm going to start testing -4 GProbe, +3 Thoughtseize, +1 Fetchland as I think this is probably better.

Kanti, after extensive playtesting I've come to the conclusion that I don't need 16 lands. I started on 16 but 15 has proved to be excellent. I would recommend against adding the 16th back in. I like the former of your suggested changes, the latter could be +3 Thoughtseize +1 Preordain. Here's my current list:

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Griselbrand
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
1 Exhume

4 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain

61 cards, but that's my bag, baby.

Sideboard (15)

1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Exhume
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Massacre

I'm trying to decide on a list for Eternal Masters. I've been testing Dreadstill, thinking about a UW Control list, and even considering going back to Mono U OmniTell (of course the "outdated" version with Enter the Infinite and the Research//Development into Laboratory Maniac kill!). But as much as I think I want to play other decks, I still always have so much fun playing Oozing! So I think it's definitely going to make the trip to Melbourne with me next week, just in case :P

[pandaman]

Raystar, I just watched your game against Esper at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEvo4NhlRzI



You used Gitaxian Probe and saw FoW and Spell Pierce. You didn't see a Wasteland. Perhaps the correct play was not to Ponder off your Lotus Petal but instead off your Underground Sea on T2. I know that your opponent might have drawn a Wasteland off the top of the deck, but there's reasonable odds he doesn't (and also that he doesn't play it T1 because he'll want Blue mana for Spell Pierce) and the Lotus Petal allows you to combo playing around Spell Pierce if you hit the Entomb off your Ponder, like you did.

So I would have played this hand like this:

T1 Gitaxian Probe. See FoW and Pierce. Draw, play Swamp and Petal, Therapy FoW. I'm pretty happy with this play, because I know his hand and can play around a soft counter.

T2 draw, Play USea and Ponder. Find your Entomb. I'm very happy now, knowing he has to have another counterspell off that Brainstorm to stop me.

T3 draw, play Verdant Catacombs, combo with enough mana to pay for Pierce. If he counters, it's likely going to be the Shallow Grave he hits, leaving me with 4 Brainstorm, 3 Ponder, 1 Preordain, 3 Gitaxian Probe, 3 Necrotic Ooze, 3 Shallow Grave, 2 Reanimate, and 1 Exhume as potential live draws here. Good odds.

This way you're making him have a third counter (either another Pierce, a Daze, or a Force of Will) to stop you.

I also watched G2 at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjS5c4_wndI

Again, you use your Petal very aggressively. Again, I think I would have waited to T2 to Ponder. Or were you concerned that he would name Ponder with Meddling Mage? I think that's unlikely, though.

[Kanti]

Question, was you're extensive testing done with 4 Probes in the configuration? If you read up you'lle see that I wrote (I think I wrote it at least) that I only added the 16th land because the Probes were cut. Could still be wrong, but I wanted to at least explain myself.

Also, why would you play SnT with ETI and not DTT? Makes no sense...

[pandaman]

No, my testing for 15 lands was done without Probe. I also went to 14 land for a while and T8'd with the list but it's too low to be safe.

I play both EtI and DTT, don't worry.

[Raystar]

Just come back home from a GPT in London....I top4ed :laugh: and I got a Savannah for my efforts, not bad :cool:

A quick list of the matches:

R1: LED Dredge, I won 2-0
R2: RG Lands, I won 2-1 loosing G2 with the biggest punt I ever made with the deck (I had won on the spot)
R3: featured match against Omnitell, I won 2-1 and will provide the link to the stream as soon as I have it
R4: ID
R5: ID

Quarterfinals: LED Dredge (another player), I won 2-0
Semifinals: Omnitell (another player), I lost 1-2 after a a mistake in G2

The list I played was:

Main Deck:

3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive
4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate

4 Cabal Therapy

1 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
1 Triskelion


Sideboard:

3 Abrupt Decay
1 Duress
2 Exhume
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Massacre
2 Reverent Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All


The deck flowed smoothly and I saw what I needed almost everytime. If only a good player would play the deck... :wink:

[Raystar]

The stream of my first Omnitell match is at

http://www.twitch.tv/darkspheretwitch/b/666445240

The round starts at 1:17:40....have fun!

EDIT: and a picture to remember the event! Very nice organization, btw!

https://www.facebook.com/DarkSphereLondon/photos/pb.533436473455075.-2207520000.1433634826./665568943575160/?type=3&theater

[Kinky]

gratz with the top4!


im planning on playing the deck in 2 weeks on a GPT Lille.
but first i need some more playtesting :-)

funny how the commentators have no clue at what your are doing :-D

[Raystar]

gratz with the top4!


im planning on playing the deck in 2 weeks on a GPT Lille.
but first i need some more playtesting :-)

funny how the commentators have no clue at what your are doing :-D

Well, it's one of the cool things of the deck: you surprise a lot of people with it :wink:

Good luck with your GPT, I hope you'll get the same lucky streak I had avoiding all the "bad" blue decks!!

[Havrekjex]

I've just picked up this deck, and it's a blast to play so far. Big props on the primer. I can tell you from firsthand experience that for someone who wants to start playing this deck, it's an excellent guide.

A question regarding Thoughtseize vs. Gitaxian Probe: unless/until we eventually come to the conclusion that one of them is the correct choice, are there any arguments for running either/or, or should a split work just fine? They both seem to have their merits, and in corner cases where we end up with both, I can see them working well together: Play Probe first, and if there's anything we must take, take it, if not, use the mana for something else and save the TS for later.

[pandaman]

Just Thoughtseize, just Probe/Therapy, and a split have all worked. I feel that Probe+Therapy may be close to optimal, though, given all the testing Raystar has been doing and the recent result.

[Raystar]

The only advantage that Probe+Therapy give is the cantripping effect of Probe. On top of that, sometimes you just need to know which route to take to the win and probe is card you need for that. I'm not sure it is optimal, I believe that probe helps less skilled players like me to take the right decision and it is showing in my win percentage at the moment.

[Namida]

I'm not sure Probe is optimal either, but I'm torn on the issue. On one hand, I feel like the one event I took this deck to would have played out much differently if I had encountered more than one blue opponent (and I only beat him because I drew discard), but on the other hand I sort of felt like having more discard wouldn't have been good against all of my other opponents because this deck is very good at playing around the cards your opponents want to use to interact (I'm still blown away by how confident I could still feel against an opponent with multiple different types of graveyard hate in play/in hand).

Basically, I enjoy having the information for no mana, but I think I'd like more discard. At the same time, I'm not sure how important the extra cantrips are so I don't know exactly where I'd want to go with this.

How is Boseiju playing for you? Do you feel like it would be necessary if you were playing more discard?

[Raystar]

I'm not sure Probe is optimal either, but I'm torn on the issue. On one hand, I feel like the one event I took this deck to would have played out much differently if I had encountered more than one blue opponent (and I only beat him because I drew discard), but on the other hand I sort of felt like having more discard wouldn't have been good against all of my other opponents because this deck is very good at playing around the cards your opponents want to use to interact (I'm still blown away by how confident I could still feel against an opponent with multiple different types of graveyard hate in play/in hand).

Basically, I enjoy having the information for no mana, but I think I'd like more discard. At the same time, I'm not sure how important the extra cantrips are so I don't know exactly where I'd want to go with this.

How is Boseiju playing for you? Do you feel like it would be necessary if you were playing more discard?

Boseiju is there as a complement for the Miracles strategy, it helps when they get the horrible "Counterspells+counterbalance+GY hate" by eliminating the first part of the problem by the equation.

[Rxfisl]

The only advantage that Probe+Therapy give is the cantripping effect of Probe. On top of that, sometimes you just need to know which route to take to the win and probe is card you need for that. I'm not sure it is optimal, I believe that probe helps less skilled players like me to take the right decision and it is showing in my win percentage at the moment.

Hi guys!

Just wanted to throw in some thoughts. :)

There is two more minor advantages of CT over TS:

1) You can sacc Griselbrand into CT if they have GY Hate or counters that you cant play around while you drew into the combo. Might even lead to him being "usable" again after a SG.
1.5) No life loss discard - which is a fringe case, but I had it being relevant with GBrand draws ending up combo pieces on my own hand and there might be more scenarios.
2) Multiple discards, especially FoW which people tend to keep in a combo matchup because they pitch to each other or offer 2 counters and thus good defensive flexibility.

Keep the ooze flowing!
Rx

[Namida]

The choice isn't between Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy, it's between Thoughtseize and Gitaxian Probe. Raystar is saying that the advantage to Probe is the cantrip effect, while adding that he also enjoys the effect as a sort of crutch to play Cabal Therapy correctly (but even snipers can miss so I don't think it's as "for weak players" as he says). Personally I feel a little naked with only 4 discard spells (especially when they're Cabal Therapy because like I said--even snipers can miss), but I don't know how much to value the cantrip effect of Probe in order to decide the number of Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize, and Gitaxian Probe that would be best. I was even thinking about potentially shaving spots from somewhere else to make room--particularly, I'm wondering how crucial the second Reanimate, the Chrome Mox, and the third Buried Alive are, but I have literally only played this deck in one event so it seems hasty to be making a ton of changes on my own.

Also, FBB Triskelion just came in so now I'm torn on whether or not to play this deck or Doomsday at the tournament coming up in my area next week.

[Rxfisl]

Just Thoughtseize, just Probe/Therapy, and a split have all worked.

From this I would infer that the choice is between either of the cards.

As Raystar and you both remarked: The power of CT increases with either of the cards on top of CT. Which I wouldnt necessarily think to be true for pairing TS and GP. So, admittedly, the comparison of CT and TS might not be the most important. Still worth a thought, since you might like to go "up close and personal" rather than "being a sniper" and thus shift the balance of CT and TS (you can surely not rely on having CT only when you also have GP/TS at the same time).

In addition, a (minor) point that might compare GP and TS: Sometimes TS can stop you from having very explosive games if you need to spend the 1B to see whether the coast is clear.

Greetz
Rx

[Rxfisl]

I was even thinking about potentially shaving spots from somewhere else to make room--particularly, I'm wondering how crucial the second Reanimate, the Chrome Mox, and the third Buried Alive are


I don't think I have ever gotten round to use Chrome Mox at all outside a "Griselbrand draws your combo" type of situation. It always feels like a dead card when in my opening 7 (cannot generate card advantage and it naturally trades 2 for 1). I will try to strip it from my list and see if I run into mana problems in any type of situation.

Gz, Rx

[Namida]

My logic for the cards I'm considering is this:

Chrome Mox: As I said before when the sideboarding plans were being discussed, it seemed like Chrome Mox came out a lot of the time, to the point that it seems like it's only in the deck for preboarded games against decks that are just as fast/faster than this deck is. Against decks where you need disruption (control/faster decks), I'm not sure how much I like relying on speed as my disruption (and even then the deck is still pretty fast) and I think I'd be content to draw disruption and knock the cards out of my opponent's hand than to risk drawing Chrome Mox in a whole lot of other situations. Against decks that you don't need disruption against I think you can afford to pass the turn instead of relying on Chrome Mox to finish your combo.

Reanimate: This consideration is a bit more suspect. All of the other reanimator decks play at least 7 reanimation spells, but I sort of feel like Necrotic Ooze itself can be counted as a reanimation spell of sorts so playing 3 ooze still brings us up to 8 spells with that effect.

Buried Alive: While Traditional Reanimator plays 8 graveyard enablers, Tin Fins plays 4 so we know it's doable to cheat on them a little bit. Both of the other reanimator decks also don't really have the option to just cast their creatures and try to fight with them.

Basically, I think where I want to be is playing 6-7 discard spells and 3 Gitaxian Probe. I'm okay with being a little less explosive as a result.

[Raystar]

My logic for the cards I'm considering is this:

Chrome Mox: As I said before when the sideboarding plans were being discussed, it seemed like Chrome Mox came out a lot of the time, to the point that it seems like it's only in the deck for preboarded games against decks that are just as fast/faster than this deck is. Against decks where you need disruption (control/faster decks), I'm not sure how much I like relying on speed as my disruption (and even then the deck is still pretty fast) and I think I'd be content to draw disruption and knock the cards out of my opponent's hand than to risk drawing Chrome Mox in a whole lot of other situations. Against decks that you don't need disruption against I think you can afford to pass the turn instead of relying on Chrome Mox to finish your combo.

Reanimate: This consideration is a bit more suspect. All of the other reanimator decks play at least 7 reanimation spells, but I sort of feel like Necrotic Ooze itself can be counted as a reanimation spell of sorts so playing 3 ooze still brings us up to 8 spells with that effect.

Buried Alive: While Traditional Reanimator plays 8 graveyard enablers, Tin Fins plays 4 so we know it's doable to cheat on them a little bit. Both of the other reanimator decks also don't really have the option to just cast their creatures and try to fight with them.

Basically, I think where I want to be is playing 6-7 discard spells and 3 Gitaxian Probe. I'm okay with being a little less explosive as a result.

@Chrome Mox: I hear what you say. The fact is that very often you "need" to steal that fast G1 against control/aggro control and it sucks to combo out with Griselbrand and not have the mana to close the deal. When you are fast it always through Petal/Ritual, so you are down at least one either, you really need some mana acceleration redundancy then. G2 you are supposed to go a little slower, and you may do without the Mox.

@Reanimate: yes, I consider the Ooze a reanimation spell by itself. We basically play 9 reanimation spells but I wouldn't cut on Reanimate: we are already a bit tight with mana and Buried Alive post Griselbrand, and I would hate to also have to pray for a reanimation spell in addition to those.

@Buried Alive: less than 3 and you won't see them after Griselbrand....

I like what's happening here, If I had to follow your reasoning I would probably try 4 CT+1 TS+3 GP. I wouldn't touch the Mox, it is very relevant G1...

Also, being an old man I'm allowed to repeat myself :wink: : the strength of the Probes is in the cantripping effect, going to 3 may lower your combo chances...

[pandaman]

Back when I was a boy... *shakes walking stick*

[Havrekjex]

There is also a lot to be said about Cabal Therapy's manaless flashback ability. After drawing big I very often find myself sacrificing my Griselbrand to make sure the coast is clear, and the one mana it doesn't cost me can be the difference between comboing out or not.

I've just started out with this thing, but I definitely feel that 4x Cabal Therapy are the first slots I want to fill among the TS/GP/CT slots. I've been happy with 4xTS/4xGP, but I'm going to try to swap a Probe for a Thoughtseize.

Another thing, and this is just me being new to the format: What commonly played creatures are such a big threat to us that we definitely want Thoughtseize over Duress? Emrakul?

[Rxfisl]

Another thing, and this is just me being new to the format: What commonly played creatures are such a big threat to us that we definitely want Thoughtseize over Duress? Emrakul?

Depending on your hand Thalia can be quite annoying.

[pandaman]

You want Thoughtseize over Duress so you can target yourself and discard combo pieces or Griselbrand. Dark Ritual, Thoughtseize your Griselbrand, Shallow Grave is a legitimate T1 play against non-Blue. I'd much rather run Duress if I could (avoiding the life loss of Thoughtseize would be great) but the utility is too valuable. Also, OmniShow players often Brainstorm in response to Duress and leave Emrakul in hand that you can't take, so Thoughtseize is useful there.

[pandaman]

Depending on your hand Thalia can be quite annoying.
I hate Thalia. It's usually more than "quite" annoying for me, hence the Massacres in the board.

[Kanti]

From this I would infer that the choice is between either of the cards.

As Raystar and you both remarked: The power of CT increases with either of the cards on top of CT. Which I wouldnt necessarily think to be true for pairing TS and GP. So, admittedly, the comparison of CT and TS might not be the most important. Still worth a thought, since you might like to go "up close and personal" rather than "being a sniper" and thus shift the balance of CT and TS (you can surely not rely on having CT only when you also have GP/TS at the same time).

In addition, a (minor) point that might compare GP and TS: Sometimes TS can stop you from having very explosive games if you need to spend the 1B to see whether the coast is clear.

Greetz
Rx


Thing is Thoughtseize makes subsequent Therapies just as strong. Admitettly it cost more mana, hence the 1B remark, but if your opponent has something like Force+Xcounter then well, obviously the TS+CT is going to be better than GP+CT, even if it is slower. All this plus TS helping out big time g1 against things like Thalia or CBalance, getting rid of them before they every hit play.

[Havrekjex]

While this deck seems unquestionably competitive, I feel like its achilles heel is the weak Miracles matchup, since it's such a popular deck. Does anyone know how is Tinfins' matchup against Miracles is compared to Oozing?

[Raystar]

While this deck seems unquestionably competitive, I feel like its achilles heel is the weak Miracles matchup, since it's such a popular deck. Does anyone know how is Tinfins' matchup against Miracles is compared to Oozing?

...worse :wink:

[pandaman]

Tin Fins has to win quickly or rely on a Chain of Vapor. Oozing has Abrupt Decay and Reverent Silence, which are excellent against Miracles, and can also simply cast Ooze and beat down if necessary. I'd probably say that the resiliency of Oozing trumps the speed of Tin Fins in the matchup.

[Pin_Vlc]

We must play Dark petition, new magic origins BOMB for our deck, im in love :tongue:

[Raystar]

We must play Dark petition, new magic origins BOMB for our deck, im in love :tongue:

I have pre-ordered a play set at 2$ each as soon as I saw it :wink:

[Rxfisl]

We must play Dark petition, new magic origins BOMB for our deck, im in love :tongue:

:eek: How is this a good card when we do not even play grim t.? Please spill the ooze! :wink:

[pandaman]

Ritual Ritual Petition for the combo piece you don't have combo? Not convinced it will be good enough. But it's still hilarious.

[Raystar]

Ritual Ritual Petition for the combo piece you don't have combo? Not convinced it will be good enough. But it's still hilarious.

I made some "home based" tests with Dark Petition and I'm not completely sold on it...

...but I'm testing another change that looks interesting: -1 Underground Sea, -1 Island -1 Buried Alive, -1 Necrotic Ooze, +1 Volcanic Island, +1 Badlands, +2 Pyroblast

I know it looks bad but testing with my son on Miracles is proving pretty effective...

[Pin_Vlc]

I play my new version of oozing combo :

// Lands
2 [LRW] Swamp (2)
1 [8E] Island (3)
2 [B] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
1 [M15] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

// Creatures
1 [AL] Phyrexian Devourer
1 [M11] Triskelion
1 [SOM] Necrotic Ooze
2 [AVR] Griselbrand
1 [GTC] Borborygmos Enraged

// Spells
3 [WL] Buried Alive
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [MI] Shallow Grave
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [A] Dark Ritual
3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [OD] Entomb
2 [US] Exhume
4 [M13] Duress
4 [M12] Ponder
2 [ORI] Dark Petition

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [NE] Massacre
SB: 4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
SB: 4 [TE] Grindstone
SB: 1 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 1 [A] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 2 [TSP] Wipe Away


I play dark petition , new bomb from origins. My sideboard painterstone is so funny . Mini report from my local tournament 20 ppl :

R1 Ad nauseam

G1 He starts with duress-->my ponder. I make the same play duress-->ponder. He play preordian, and pass. I play brainstorm,take dark ritual+buried to necrotic package.We play more cantrips and discard ,but finally, i take a exhume and win.
G2 t1 win.I have t1 win too...
G3 Another discard&cantrips war and this time, he was more fast.

R2 Jund
G1 deckcheck and my opponent have 1 duress from sb and take 1 game lost.
G2 Hym,deathrite shaman and liliana...gg.
G3 In turn3 , taps deathrite and i play ritual+entomb+shallow to griselbrand. I draw 14 .In my turn painterstone wins the game.

R3 Lands
G1 I knew that he plays lands. I make 1 mull to g2 wins. t1 buried, t2 shallow and win. I change my sb to painter
G2 T1 tomb+ painter . Wasteland to tomb.T2 island ponder, i take grindstone and t4 win .He cant kill painter.

R4 Sneak&show
This guy was 3-0 and let me win .Only needs draw the next round for top8 .

R5 draw

Top8 Sneak&show
G1 Another war discardvscantrips&counters . Finally, i can play buried for combo, and next turn duress and dark petition for shallow grave for win.
G2 We made mull to 6.I made duress and i discard S&T, but 2 turns later, draw sneak atack and i lose.
G3 i draw this 7 : lotus petal, dark petition, 2 dark ritual ,entomb,cabal therapy and ponder.No lands, and t1 kill or lose vs fow xD . I play it, no fow and Griselbrand & Borborygmos Enraged killed .

Top 4 Elves
G1 i send necrotic combo to graveyard , but i only draw discard, and i discard natural orders and zeniths.3 turns later, a swarm of elves,kills me without behemoth.
G2 Cabal therapy to natural order,and take 1.Cabal to zenith,and take another :cool::cool: . He plays to slowly and i can play dark petition from my combo pieces and kill.
G3 He play 2 dryad arbor meanwhile i discard sorcerys like zenith&glimpse . EOT entomb to Iona and easy win.

Final vs Miracles with mentor and daze
G1 i comboed fast , but he have fow. In 2 turn i can win another time but daze destroys me... play counterbalance and i cant win.
G2 i play land and discard, play fow. play another land and pass.My opp,play canonist and smiles :smile: . I play grindstone+dark ritual+ancient tomb+ painter and win easy.
G3 Last war discard vs counters. I can win fast with painterstone, but another time 1 daze and then swords stops my sb tech. We make draw&go and i found dark petition ,that eats a fow...:rolleyes: .
Counterbalance and mentor wins the game in lategame...

Do you like my list ?

[pandaman]

I still don't know what to make of your list. I can't see how Borby adds anything to the deck that Trisk+Devoured doesn't give you. It still seems like a waste of space to me.

The three Ancient Tomb is interesting. How did you find them? Did you get a lot of double-Tomb draws? Also, PainterStone : what did you side OUT for it? Curious!

[Pin_Vlc]

I still don't know what to make of your list. I can't see how Borby adds anything to the deck that Trisk+Devoured doesn't give you. It still seems like a waste of space to me.

The three Ancient Tomb is interesting. How did you find them? Did you get a lot of double-Tomb draws? Also, PainterStone : what did you side OUT for it? Curious!


Borby is amazing ! Is a solid plan B, and i use for kill when i can draw a lot of cards with Grizzel. With only 3 :b::b::b: you can entomb it, reanimate and kill .When you have 5 its best necrotic ooze pakage.

Ancient Tomb is nice for cast fast necrotic,dark petition and buried alive. Of course for the sb plan PainterStone .This version is only Ub, if we play 3 colors, Tombs will be hard to play...

Side : +4 painter +4 grinstone

-1 necrotic ooze -2 exhume -1 triskelion -1 Devourer -3 Buried Alive

[Namida]

Why do you think Borborygmos is "solid?" I don't think you've made a good argument for why Borborygmos is as amazing as you say, because I don't think Borborgymos is actually fixing any problems that the deck has. What issue is Borborygmos so good at solving that it is actually worth playing, despite being a completely uncastable card in a streamlined combo deck?

First off, Borborygmos isn't actually a Plan B. You still have to jump through the same hoops as the regular combo to get to a place where Borborgymos can do anything at all. You will never be able to cast Borborygmos, so you are forced to reanimate him; this means you're basically not dodging anything by having this card in your reanimator deck. The only thing Borborgymos plays around as far as I can tell is Pithing Needle on Necrotic Ooze...and if that's the case then Borborgymos is clearly a sideboard card and not even a good one at that since it's ridiculously narrow (it's uncastable and only answers one card which sees marginal play).

You are literally saying that Borborygmos is amazing because it can kill the opponent after you've drawn a bunch of cards with Griselbrand. Here's the issue with that: If you've managed to get Griselbrand into play, you have three spare mana to work with, and so many cards in hand that you'd have enough lands to kill your opponent if you used that three mana to reanimate a Borborygmos...you are probably so far ahead that you should be able to think of any number of ways to actually win the game that don't require actually having a Borborgymos in your deck. Most of the time I think the Ooze combo should be easily executed from this position, or you should have enough disruption to stay alive and attempt the combo again next turn. Basically, I think you will lose more games from deciding to have a Borborygmos in your deck and drawing it, than you will lose from having literally nothing you could do to stay alive/win the game from the sort of game state you're using to argue that Borborygmos is useful.

As I said before, if you feel that you must have a dedicated card for finishing off the opponent despite maneuvering yourself into an almost unloseable situation, there are just better cards that you can use because they're castable and can actually do something before you try to combo so you don't look foolish for having a RRGG card in your UB deck.

[pandaman]

Here's a list from Japan!

http://tomy103.diarynote.jp/201505201034579881/

[Havrekjex]

Here's a list from Japan!

http://tomy103.diarynote.jp/201505201034579881/As a fresh recruit it makes me very happy to see a stock list do well. This thing really works. I need to get those duals, I`m still slumming this thing with shocklands and two life is a lot in this deck.

[Namida]

Here's a list from Japan!

http://tomy103.diarynote.jp/201505201034579881/

That's actually me. I talked about that event in post 54 of this thread.

It's funny though--I was just thinking of picking this deck up again. I'm going to Tokyo over the weekend, and I don't really want to work on any other decks until I know whether or not Dig Through Time is still going to be in the format at the end of the month, so I'm probably going to be casting some Oozes.

Has no one been playing the deck, or did I just shut down all discussion by expressing my dissatisfaction with Borborgymos?

[movingtonewao]

hi there, would you post your list if you were to play the deck today? I'll jump over from food chain if it shows promise.

[pandaman]

Quick 4-rounder last night with Style and Class.

3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
2 Griselbrand

4 Shallow Grave
2 Exhume
1 Reanimate
4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotu Petal
1 Chrome Mox

Sideboard
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Massacre
2 Reverent Silence
2 Exhume
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize
1 Necrotic Ooze

R1 v Merfolk W 2-0

G1 he draws no counterspells and I can Shallow Grave an Ooze for the combo a turn before I die.

G2 I am mana heavy, making my land drops, which assists me playing around his Daze and Cursecatcher. I make him burn a FoW on a combo attempt and assemble a hand he will need another to stop, which he doesn't have.

R2 v Jund L 1-2

G1 I win T2.

G2 he opens T1 Cage. I find an Abrupt Decay for it but he drops a DRS. I need to go, so EoT Decay the Cage and Entomb a Griselbrand, which he nabs with Surgical Extraction. I figured playing through two hate pieces would have been enough. He BBEs into Bolt, Bolts me from his hand, and uses DRS and all of a sudden I'm dead.

G3 he mulls to 6 and T0s a LotV. Who plays that?!?! Luckily, I know from his first round opponent that he does, so I boarded in my Reverent Silence. I commence digging for my two-outer or simply a way to hard cast Griselbrand. I don't find either and die.

I hate losing to non-Blue decks.

R3 v D&T W 2-1

G1 I durdle and die.

G2 I go off T2.

G3 is a grind. I'm digging but in the meantime he casts a Containment Priest and a Rest in Peace. I find Decay for the RiP but have to let the Priest beat down to 4 life while drawing no business or cantrips. Suddenly I rip a Brainstorm! I use it to find another Brainstorm and suddenly, with the use of an Entomb as a shuffle effect, I have a hand that can go places. I Massacre his board away, then double Dark Ritual into Entomb Devourer, Entomb Trisk, hardcast Ooze for the win.

3-1 isn't a bad result. The maindeck is what I always play: playsets of BS and Ponder with 7 each of disruption, binning, and reanimating spells plus 8 slots for the combo and 24 mana sources.

The sideboard needs work. I wonder whether Surgical Extraction is actually worth it. I can win faster than any other combo deck, so why do I need to disrupt them? Perhaps a better sideboard would be:

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Massacre
3 Reverent Silence
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Thoughtseize
1 Iona
2 Exhume
1 x

Nice to play a deck that finishes rounds in 25 mins :)

R4 v Junk W 2-0

[pandaman]

Plans for this Tue night's weekly are:

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp
2 Griselbrand

4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
1 Exhume

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

Sideboard (15)

4 Abrupt Decay
3 Massacre
1 Thoughtseize
2 Exhume
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Reverent Silence
1 Necrotic Ooze

I need 3 Massacre because there are a bunch of D&T players at my store, 3 Reverent Silence because there are quite a few Miracles players and people are playing Leyline of the Void. Iona package because of the OmniTell players, and the Ooze because BUG still runs around. Abrupt Decay playset if just because it's so useful of a card. Dropping the graveyard hate because I think I'm faster and can probably get away without it.

[pandaman]

I have 0-2 dropped in my past two events with Oozing. I've been playing terribly, though, so it hasn't been the deck. However, I do have some changes to test.

2 Necrotic Ooze
1 Griselbrand
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp

4 Shallow grave
2 reanimate
2 exhume

4 Entomb
4 Buried Alive

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain

4 Cabal Therapy

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

Sideboard

4 Abrupt Decay
3 Massacre
3 Reverent Silence
1 Necrotic Ooze
4 Thoughtseize

I think the extra dig will be useful, and I have removed Iona package from sideboard because of the decline in Omnitell. I'll give it a test next week.

[Havrekjex]

There is often this T1 dilemma where I open up with a Petal, a fetchland, a Brainstorm and no other early shuffle effect or mana. Can it be correct to pop the Petal for Brainstorm so I can shuffle away cards with the fetchland? Is that always right/wrong, or does it depend on the rest of the hand? It feels like a leap of faith, if I don't find more mana with Brainstorm, I might get stuck, but on the other hand I often really want to Brainstorm->shuffle. I like it if I have something in my hand that I really want to tuck, or if my hand sucks so much that I should probably have shuffled it (which is not often true about a hand with Land/Petal/Brainstorm).

[Pin_Vlc]

I played 2 new tournaments with oozing.

// Lands
2 [LRW] Swamp (2)
1 [8E] Island (3)
2 [B] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [A] Tropical Island
2 [A] Bayou
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest

// Creatures
1 [AL] Phyrexian Devourer
1 [M11] Triskelion
1 [SOM] Necrotic Ooze
1 [GTC] Borborygmos Enraged
2 [AVR] Griselbrand

// Spells
4 [OD] Entomb
3 [WL] Buried Alive
4 [MI] Shallow Grave
2 [US] Exhume
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [A] Dark Ritual
4 [M13] Duress
3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [M12] Ponder
2 [ORI] Dark Petition

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOM] Necrotic Ooze
SB: 3 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 [M13] Ground Seal
SB: 2 [NE] Massacre
SB: 2 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 2 [NE] Reverent Silence
SB: 1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
R1 Stasis Mono U
In the g1 the oponnet draw 9 islands, and i win easy.
G2 , duress+duress let me kill without fow .

R2 Burn
G1 Goblin guide, i play ritual buried, and t2 kill
G2 Monastery +guide, but griselbrand+ borborygmos seems more strongs.

R3 Eva green
G1 discard wars and combo t3 with necrotic.
G2 opo keeps bad hand and i discard its extirpate.T3 necrotic kills.

R4 ID
R5 ID

Top8 vs Miracles
G1 Fow+daze+counterbalance didnt let me win
G2 t1 kill
G3 I keep 1 land hand,with bs.I play it in t2 and spell pierce . i didnt draw the second land never and i lose.



// Lands
2 [LRW] Swamp (2)
1 [8E] Island (3)
2 [B] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [A] Tropical Island
2 [A] Bayou
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest

// Creatures
1 [AL] Phyrexian Devourer
1 [M11] Triskelion
2 [SOM] Necrotic Ooze
2 [AVR] Griselbrand

// Spells
4 [OD] Entomb
3 [WL] Buried Alive
4 [MI] Shallow Grave
2 [US] Exhume
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [A] Dark Ritual
4 [M13] Duress
3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [M12] Ponder
2 [ORI] Dark Petition
1 [MR] Chrome Mox

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 [NE] Massacre
SB: 2 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
SB: 2 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [AL] Helm of Obedience


I removed borborygmos for second necrotic,and play 4 dark confident and tendrils for win vs miracles.

R1 Dredge
We play very slow this game, he cant dredge ,and i only draw lands and discard. Finally, dark petition let me win.
G2 dredge combo time
G3 Plays leyline of the void, i play underground and pass, draws and pass,eot chain of vapor and win in my turn.

R2 Miracles
G1 was very fast, i discard counterbalance,but i eat 2 fows for 2 entomb.Then resolves cb+senseis and i concede,when he cuts my buried.
G2 i was played my new sb ,i play t1 confident and i draw ...mmmm.. 10 extra cards, play 1 griselbrand and draw 7+ but he bounced with karakas... and i can win.Only draw garbage !

R3 Burn
G1 i cant find exhume or shallow and die fast
G2 similar

R4 Reanimator
G1 my discard fight vs counters,but finally resolves Iona and i lose...
G2 i cant win vs perfect hand like a fow,ponder,bs,entomb,thoug, under...


Why do you think Borborygmos is "solid?" I don't think you've made a good argument for why Borborygmos is as amazing as you say, because I don't think Borborgymos is actually fixing any problems that the deck has. What issue is Borborygmos so good at solving that it is actually worth playing, despite being a completely uncastable card in a streamlined combo deck?

First off, Borborygmos isn't actually a Plan B. You still have to jump through the same hoops as the regular combo to get to a place where Borborgymos can do anything at all. You will never be able to cast Borborygmos, so you are forced to reanimate him; this means you're basically not dodging anything by having this card in your reanimator deck. The only thing Borborgymos plays around as far as I can tell is Pithing Needle on Necrotic Ooze...and if that's the case then Borborgymos is clearly a sideboard card and not even a good one at that since it's ridiculously narrow (it's uncastable and only answers one card which sees marginal play).

You are literally saying that Borborygmos is amazing because it can kill the opponent after you've drawn a bunch of cards with Griselbrand. Here's the issue with that: If you've managed to get Griselbrand into play, you have three spare mana to work with, and so many cards in hand that you'd have enough lands to kill your opponent if you used that three mana to reanimate a Borborygmos...you are probably so far ahead that you should be able to think of any number of ways to actually win the game that don't require actually having a Borborgymos in your deck. Most of the time I think the Ooze combo should be easily executed from this position, or you should have enough disruption to stay alive and attempt the combo again next turn. Basically, I think you will lose more games from deciding to have a Borborygmos in your deck and drawing it, than you will lose from having literally nothing you could do to stay alive/win the game from the sort of game state you're using to argue that Borborygmos is useful.

As I said before, if you feel that you must have a dedicated card for finishing off the opponent despite maneuvering yourself into an almost unloseable situation, there are just better cards that you can use because they're castable and can actually do something before you try to combo so you don't look foolish for having a RRGG card in your UB deck.

Borborygmos is very nice.You never will cast it,and its a very bad draw, but it have 2 thing like i love.When you play alternative sb like painterstone you can keep 1 griselbrand,entombs and Borborygmos and can continue kill with a entomb+shallow grave fast.And the second its,when you only can draw 7 cards with griselbrand,and atack and draw another 7, and you didt draw a lot of mana/dark ritual/petals,with only 3 blacks for entomb and exhume, you can win .


There is often this T1 dilemma where I open up with a Petal, a fetchland, a Brainstorm and no other early shuffle effect or mana. Can it be correct to pop the Petal for Brainstorm so I can shuffle away cards with the fetchland? Is that always right/wrong, or does it depend on the rest of the hand? It feels like a leap of faith, if I don't find more mana with Brainstorm, I might get stuck, but on the other hand I often really want to Brainstorm->shuffle. I like it if I have something in my hand that I really want to tuck, or if my hand sucks so much that I should probably have shuffled it (which is not often true about a hand with Land/Petal/Brainstorm).

it depend on the rest of the hand. But i dont like do it .I prefer play the land, and the next turn, draw , and play bs.You can take the second land,another bs,ponder or entomb. if you have a combo t1 maybe you can do it .



Nobody plays Dark petition ? I like this card !!!

[why]

Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is seeing some play in this format. It also has a ton of synergy with Necrotic Ooze. With a Jace in the graveyard, Necrotic Ooze can tap to loot. It will attempt to transform and come back into play face up and untapped. With any way to give Necrotic Ooze haste, you can win the game in any number of ways.

Is this worth building around?

[Havrekjex]

{decklist}

I think the extra dig will be useful, and I have removed Iona package from sideboard because of the decline in Omnitell. I'll give it a test next week.Did you decide to move away from the mainboard Thoughtseizes, or are you just sidelining them temporarily to try out new things? I like the idea of having a few extra cards that actually pick stuff out of my opponent's hand, but I have such a hard time with those slots. Right now I'm at 4 Cabal, 2 Thoughtseize and 2 Probe, but I'm not sure if I like the mix or if it's actually just an excuse for my indecisiveness and I should get my shit together and pick one. Sometimes the Probes help me go off a turn earlier than a TS would, other times I Probe to see something I can't deal with. I want it all :b:

[Namida]

Borborygmos is very nice.You never will cast it,and its a very bad draw, but it have 2 thing like i love.When you play alternative sb like painterstone you can keep 1 griselbrand,entombs and Borborygmos and can continue kill with a entomb+shallow grave fast.And the second its,when you only can draw 7 cards with griselbrand,and atack and draw another 7, and you didt draw a lot of mana/dark ritual/petals,with only 3 blacks for entomb and exhume, you can win .

Nobody plays Dark petition ? I like this card !!!

This is what I'm saying. Borborygmos is not nice just because you love it. Borborgymos has a serious drawback. The bad points of Borborygmos are heavier than the good points.

Here are my answers to the 2 things you love:

Alternate SB: You play an alternate sideboard to avoid graveyard hate. I think you are making a mistake if you decide you want/need Borborygmos after changing strategies. In fact, it's MUCH worse in this situation because splitting your gameplan already has a chance of you drawing cards from Combo A which are useless when you need Combo B--adding a "very bad draw" means more risk to draw very bad hands with many useless cards.

You draw 14 cards with Griselbrand, you have BBB mana, and you have Entomb + Exhume: If you need Borborgymos to win in this situation, you need more practice or you need more luck. Without even knowing what 14 cards you drew, in this situation you can Entomb a Cabal Therapy, sacrifice Griselbrand to flash it back, and Exhume it to keep a Griselbrand in play. I think you are too focused on winning immediately, when it is rare that you actually *need* to win immediately. You could use your discard to clear your opponent's hand and win the next turn; you could bring back Griselbrand as a blocker to win the next turn; you could bring back Triskelion to kill attackers to win the next turn. You have many plays that stop your opponent from winning, and you should be able to win if you untap after drawing 14 cards. Borborygmos is unnecessary.

Why do you like Dark Petition? I'm not saying you're wrong here, but I'd like to hear why you think it's a good card. It looks to me like it conflicts with the mana concerns that you say you have when you bring up Borborgymos, and it also gets hosed by the same cards that hose your combo, so there's a good chance you actually end up casting a a card worse than Diabolic Tutor when you try to cast Dark Petition.

[Raystar]

Back to playing after a while (work, family, the usual mess....). I went back to Rome to visit my family (my father and my sister), and brought the deck with me for a tournament in which my closest magic friends were playing.

I'm writing on my iPad, I'll write a better report when I'm back in London)....

The list I played is the MD from the primer (4 probes and 1 griselbrand) and the sideboard was:

3 abrupt decay
2 reverent silence
2 exhume
1 duress
1 thoughtseize
1 Iona
1 boseiju
2 massacre
2 surgical extraction

We were 26 players and in the Swiss I played:

R1 ANT: Won 2-0
R2 Sneak&Show: Lost 0-2
R3 Reanimator: Won 2-0
R4 Enchantress: Won 2-0
R5 ID for T8

T4 Enchantress: Won 2-0
T2 Sneak&Show (same one from the Swiss): Won 2-0
Final Sneak&Show: Won 2-0

We played the final but we had already agreed to split the first and second prize (slightly more than 100 Euros in shop bonus each).

In the right meta Oozing is a monster ;)

[Havrekjex]

Holy shit, those are some beautiful results!

[Redkid43]

Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is seeing some play in this format. It also has a ton of synergy with Necrotic Ooze. With a Jace in the graveyard, Necrotic Ooze can tap to loot. It will attempt to transform and come back into play face up and untapped. With any way to give Necrotic Ooze haste, you can win the game in any number of ways.

Is this worth building around?

Reminds me of that jank Standard deck a long time ago with Civilized Scholar. It's certainly an interesting interaction, and Jace helps with our plan I think?

[Gikkman]

An Anger in the graveyard would give Ooze haste. With a Jace and an Anger in the 'yard and an Ooze in play, you can mill your loot your entire library

[Redkid43]

With Jace's ability, Ooze would loot, exile itself, and returned to play untapped as Necrotic Ooze (because it can't transform). Important to note is that the interaction makes Ooze removal proof because it exiles itself.

I think this would garner as whole new paradigm of the deck. With 5 cards in the yard, we can draw our deck. From there, it's a matter of finding the right combination of things. I think Grixis would be awesome, as we can Buried for Jace, Ooze, and Anger plus mana base allows for mountains that will give Ooze haste thanks to Anger. Burning Wish becomes super nice here, as drawing the deck, free spells, and such play well with it.

We can even cut all the nonsense and just go for Borbor kill after drawing deck. Plus he'll have haste too.

[Raystar]

It's probably worth a test...want to put together.a draft list?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Redkid43]

Sure thing....just give me a few hours to wrap my head around this.

[pettdan]

With Jace's ability, Ooze would loot, exile itself, and returned to play untapped as Necrotic Ooze (because it can't transform). Important to note is that the interaction makes Ooze removal proof because it exiles itself.

I had to verify this cool interaction, unfortunately I don't think it works like that. In the comprehensive rules guide in chapter 701.25 it is stated that a card with a normal back side can't flip/transform.

Edit:
It may have been 711.25, sorry but it's messy looking up on a phone. I found a clarification from below wizards post, not sure about what rules changes have been made since then but this will suffice for me for now:

"If any card or token other than a double-faced card is instructed to transform, nothing happens. It won't be turned face down."

http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/157b

[whienot]

Yes, but you do everything else but Transform. Necrotic Ooze will exile itself and return to the battlefield untapped. The problem is that the Ooze returns as a new object and will not have haste.

[Koby]

From some early testing with Jace in Shallow Grave decks, I'm not a big fan. He will interfere with Shallow Grave on a regular occasion, and requires passing priority to continue with other elements.

I would much prefer to play more dig, or more Reanimates to enable faster disruption or combo phases.

[Havrekjex]

I'm not dismissing Jace, but with regards to the Anger plan... If we're going to attempt to have an Ooze out and two specific cards in the yard, those two cards might as well be Trisk and Devourer, right?

[Raystar]

I kind of agree that Jace may result to be too clunky. At the moment I'm very, very happy with the MD, switching the draw engine from Griselbrand to Jace should really be groundbreaking to make me move [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pandaman]

Raystar, nice work on crushing that tournament. Do you think Iona+Exhume is still worth sideboarding now that OmniTell has got a bit weaker?

The list I was testing felt garbage. Back to what I was doing!

[Raystar]

Raystar, nice work on crushing that tournament. Do you think Iona+Exhume is still worth sideboarding now that OmniTell has got a bit weaker?

The list I was testing felt garbage. Back to what I was doing!

I can see Iona being cut, it is still useful against elves, burn and enchantress...but probably overkill.

The exhumes are there for anything playing chalice, not just to reanimate Iona. Exhume is very good against MUD, it brings our entire reanimation package out of chalice reach.

I was discussing with a friend the possible merits of removing Iona and boseiju for 2 Carpet of Flowers...When I'm back to London I'll try to experiment a bit around the idea.

[Raystar]

Just a thought on Jace: it's actually pretty bad if the opponent has a Surgical Extraction/Extirpate in hand, they could just respond to the Ooze activation by removing Jace from the yard...not good at all...

I believe that our Griselbrand plan is way more solid than the Jace plan (and faster).

[Raystar]

Here you go with a little more detailed report of my win last Sunday (Organizer results reports at http://www.tipo1.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34683 , I'm the ugly second from the right with closed eyes hahaha).

R1 ANT: 2-0
--------
G1: he starts island->ponder...I thought "geez what a way to start, miracles on R1...."...but I have a T1 kill and I go for it blind because yolo and he doesn't respond ;)
G2: I bring in the sideboard for miracles and he starts land, LED...good, I discard something from his hand and proceed to combo on T2

R2 Sneak&Show: 0-2
--------
G1: the deck craps on me and I loose a game that I could have won after he let me play my ooze with S&T (he played emrakul) and I saw six cards without finding an entomb...
G2: I don't remember what I sided in but I remember cursing me for having sided in too much...I mulligan to 6 to keep an hand with discard and cantrips but fail to combo quickly and die miserably.

R3 Reanimator: 2-0
--------
G1: Gitaxian probe shows that the road is clear and I combo T2
G2: I bring in the decays (for his needles) and the discard package. He is scared of me and responds to my cabal therapy by entombing Iona.... :) Reanimate on Iona (calling black) and bye bye

R4 Enchantress: 2-0
--------
G1: he is a friend of mine and knows what I'm playing...he sits with veeery sad face, he knows he can't win even with 4 RiP main decked. I proceed to T1 him.
G2: I bring in 3 decays, 2 reverent silences and Iona. I have a slow hand (only one land) and he starts strong with double RiP, canonist, the new enchant that makes the opponent pay X to attack (where X is the number of enchantments) and he is sitting with an empty hand hoping that his hate will be enough. What he doesn't know is that my hand is: 1 decay, 1 reverent silence, 1 entomb, 1 reanimate...I draw a land, decay his canonist at end of his turn, clear the board and get Iona on the table...he has a very sad face at that point (sorry Guglielmo ;) ).

R5 ID

I get into the T8 as 6th and have to always be on the draw...It doesn't really matter because:

Quartefinal Enchantress: 2-0
--------
G1: Guglielmo hates me at this point...I T1 him
G2: Same sideboard strategy and a T2 kill

Semifinal Sneak&Show: 2-0
--------
G1: it is the same player from the Swiss. I get lucky and I T2 him while he is waiting for the 3rd mana to combo off after mulliganing to 5
G2: I bring in 3 decays (for his needles) and the discard. I mulligan to 5 and I'm already thinking of G3 but he get stuck on 1 mana while I flood. I use decay on a petal to keep him low on mana and from the way he is playing I guess he has various creatures in hand. I cabal therapy for Griselbrand and get three of them out of his hand! I then proceed to beat him down with his own demon ;)

Final Sneak&Show: 2-0
--------
G1: We decide to split the prize but to play for the result. We trade discard and countermagic for a couple of turns until I buried alive the combo with a reanimate and a ooze in my hand. I need to pass the turn (I need an additional mana, but he was tapped out and I wanted to force the buried alive through) and I'm not sure if he has a counterspell for me the following turn...it doesn't matter he S&T Griselbrand, I play Ooze (he didn't know what was coming) and proceed to kill him in response to Griselbrand activation.
G2: I have the mother of all hands: 1 entomb, 1 therapy and 2 reanimation spells...but he has 1 flusterstorm, 1 spell pierce and an active FoW hahaha...it doesn't matter, he let the entomb resolve and I draw another reanimation spell :wink:

Of course it was a favourable list of matches (even if Sneak&Show is harder than it seems and Reanimator is a coin toss in my opinion) and I was lucky because the multitude of Miracles and tempo deck present in the room had been taken care of by my opponents. The list is smooth and very consistent, I like the fact that I'm the beatdown against ANT (very popular right now) and that the deck is really streamlined against variance.

As I suggested some posts ago, I'll try to fit a couple of Carpet of Flowers in the board...I'll watch the shift of the meta and if Omnitell is really on a decline Iona will be the best candidate out of the board.

[pandaman]

Raystar, great report, especially enjoyed the triple Griselbrand Therapy and use of opp's own creature to win. I'm going to play Oozing tomorrow night now having read this!

[Raystar]

Last tournament is also on Tcdecks: http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18538

The deck has been called (Grrrrrrrr....) Reanimator and the sideboard is wrong, there are 2 boiseju and 1 reverent silence...it should be the reverse...

[vieko]

Hey Everyone!

Loving this deck! Has any consideration been given to a singleton / two copies of Careful Study mainboard? Seems to me this would be helpful... wouldn't it?

[Raystar]

Hey Everyone!

Loving this deck! Has any consideration been given to a singleton / two copies of Careful Study mainboard? Seems to me this would be helpful... wouldn't it?

Hey vieko, welcome to the Dark Corner ;)

There were a lot of tests on additions to the deck that have been done at the beginning of development (you can find the link to the old thread at the beginning of this one), Careful Study has been considered extensively and has merits but:

- we only carry one or two copies of Griselbrand, so, before we start drawing half of the deck the use of Careful Study would be pretty limited and we have our discard suite that helps there while performing disruption duty.
- if you are in the "post-Griselbrand" phase, Careful Study is only useful if you are able to get the Ooze in play in some way and can discard the other pieces through CS. If I need to dig during this phase then Ponder and Brainstorm are superior and if we have pieces in hand that we can't discard immediately we can always use the discard step and combo out during the opponent's upkeep

Were you thinking of other uses of CS? Did I miss anything?

[vieko]

Were you thinking of other uses of CS? Did I miss anything?


CS is easier to cast early turns: Land → CS → Draw Two → Discard Gris + something else → Reanimate → Draw Biz → Kill you ?
Ponder → see 3 cards I like → Draw for Ponder → CS → Draw other cards → Discard relevant GY stuff → Go?


DO KEEP IN MIND: I've successfully dredged almost exclusively for the past couple years and have very little experience with this deck :)

[Raystar]

CS is easier to cast early turns: Land → CS → Draw Two → Discard Gris + something else → Reanimate → Draw Biz → Kill you ?
Ponder → see 3 cards I like → Draw for Ponder → CS → Draw other cards → Discard relevant GY stuff → Go?


DO KEEP IN MIND: I've successfully dredged almost exclusively for the past couple years and have very little experience with this deck :)

The first scenario is pretty unlikely, my current list runs 1 (one) Griselbrand, the chance of what you describe to happen are pretty slim...I prefer to have more dig (Ponder, Brainstorm) and go through the Entomb route to make it happen.

On Ponder...if I could play 8 of them I would ;) We very often need to find a single card and Ponder is the best cantrip for that.

I'm not trying to convince you that CS is not good for the deck, on the contrary, I believe it to be a strong card. I also believe that the way the deck is built right now it wouldn't benefit from CS as you think it would. The real estate for entombing effects is pretty limited and short of reducing the number of Ponder/Brainstorm you would have to sacrifice an Entomb or Buried Alive to include a CS.

One thing I can definitely suggest is to try the deck extensively adding CS and verify if you ever run into situations were you would have really preferred to draw another card instead ;)

[vieko]

On Ponder...if I could play 8 of them I would ;) We very often need to find a single card and Ponder is the best cantrip for that.

Couldn't agree more! If I were to try 1/2 Careful Study, it would be in place of 1/2 Gitaxian Probe... Don't think I would like to lose any number of Ponder / Brainstorm / Buried Alive for that matter. Thanks again for your work on the deck, can't wait to jam it some more.

[Havrekjex]

I`m still playing the 75 in the primer except for 1x Probe -> Thoughtseize. I like that so far. But does anyone else feel bad about the 1-of Chrome Mox? I almost always hate seeing it except when I have Grisel-drawn 14 cards and want to vomit my hand, and even those times I often don`t need it to do what I want to do.

[Pin_Vlc]

Alternate SB: You play an alternate sideboard to avoid graveyard hate. I think you are making a mistake if you decide you want/need Borborygmos after changing strategies. In fact, it's MUCH worse in this situation because splitting your gameplan already has a chance of you drawing cards from Combo A which are useless when you need Combo B--adding a "very bad draw" means more risk to draw very bad hands with many useless cards.

When you play alternate sb , like painterstone, i like continue kill with main combo.But now , im testing new alternate sb , in this moment im playing 4 dark confident + 2 tendrils for win vs miracles.


You draw 14 cards with Griselbrand, you have BBB mana, and you have Entomb + Exhume: If you need Borborgymos to win in this situation, you need more practice or you need more luck. Without even knowing what 14 cards you drew, in this situation you can Entomb a Cabal Therapy, sacrifice Griselbrand to flash it back, and Exhume it to keep a Griselbrand in play. I think you are too focused on winning immediately, when it is rare that you actually *need* to win immediately. You could use your discard to clear your opponent's hand and win the next turn; you could bring back Griselbrand as a blocker to win the next turn; you could bring back Triskelion to kill attackers to win the next turn. You have many plays that stop your opponent from winning, and you should be able to win if you untap after drawing 14 cards. Borborygmos is unnecessary.

Maybe im focused on winning immediately, but i like win in the same turn and fast.I will test play more slow .


Why do you like Dark Petition? I'm not saying you're wrong here, but I'd like to hear why you think it's a good card. .

I like this card.Im start playing 2 ,and take a more t1 kill , but cc5 is too much. Now im playing only 1 for dark confident sb plan. Dark petition is and excelent top deck, and let you win with only 1 card entomb/shallow .

[kombatkiwi]

I was really intrigued by the idea of using the new Jace. The best combo I could come up with was:

Ooze + Anger + Jace = Loot your deck
Pinger + Cinderhaze Wretch into graveyard
Ping
Untap (3/2)
Ping
Untap (2/1)
Loot -> Flip
Untapped 4/3 Ooze
Repeat

Alternatively you can Loot-flip after only pinging once to play around instants (see below) but depending on what pinger you are using and the number of cards in your library you increase the likelihood of decking yourself. You can use the flip-chandra as your wincon to avoid having to reset with looting but then the combo loses to 1 removal spell. This can be mitigated by the fact that after a few Cinderhaze activations your opponent is not likely to have a hand.

Unlike some kind of spell-based wincon you don't need any mana or cards in hand once you start comboing.

So you have
4 Jace as all-around decent card, plus
Ooze + Pinger + Cinderhaze + Anger (+ Griselbrand?)

Instead of
Ooze + Imp + 1 Devourer + 1 Triskelion + Griselbrand

Likely the deck would need a major overhaul to maximise the synergies with Jace. Jace might be really good here with a lot of different things to flashback, reanimate targets to discard, etc. You can make the play of Entombing a spell and then casting it from your graveyard. You can entomb Anger early to give your Jaces haste. It would take the deck in a more controlling, grindy direction, which could be good or bad (slower). Making opponent's removal live is also not great.

As mentioned by Koby having 1/1 Jace in your deck can make your shallow graves more awkward.

However you still retain the ability of the Ooze/Trike version to go off at instant speed through 2 spells.

E.g. You have Ooze in play
Buried Alive for Anger + Jace + Cinderhaze
Tap to loot
Opponent responds with Extraction
Put a counter on ooze to untap it (3/2)
Tap to loot again
Your opponent has a second Extraction
Put a second counter on the ooze (2/1)
Ooze untaps and keeps going

Same deal if you want to Buried Alive first and then cast Ooze to play around a removal spell.

The Ooze only has enough toughness to play through 1 interactive spell once you start tapping to ping,
[- Tap to ping
- Put counter on
- Opponent responds
- You respond by putting another counter on
- Opponent has a 2nd response
- If you try to put another counter on at this point your ooze dies]
but you have potentially looted through your deck at this point and could have drawn a Pact of Negation for example.

Unfortunately if you try to start the looting combo with exactly Ooze + Jace + Anger you don't have the ability to play around anything.
I'm guessing that fairly frequently you Buried Alive for Ooze + Trisk + Devourer then cast reanimate spell to win the game through removal, it's probably not wise to assume you are always going to have a Jace or an Ooze in the graveyard.

More direct results from using this new combo and losing Trisk/Devourer:
- You need to change the deck's manabase to have mountains for Anger.
- With Devourer in your deck you can win with just Ooze in play and 1 Entomb if your opponent has no removal or blockers. (Losing this seems pretty big)
- You lose the play of removing hatebears or other problem creatures by reanimating Triskelion. (Depending on the new wincon creature you chose you might still have this ability, Kamahl, Pit Fighter is good at killing things).
- You gain the play of Ooze on the battlefield -> Entomb Pinger/Cinderhaze to control your opponent's board/hand. Triskelion doesn't do anything by itself here and Devourer is not great if your opponent has creatures. (I guess this is what Griselbrand is for though lol)

[Redkid43]

You would need Anger in yard for this and a reanimation spell. Giving Ooze haste with Anger is the only way for this to work-any other spell (say shallow grave) would cause Ooze to loose haste upon reentry with Jace ability because it is a new object.

[kombatkiwi]

You would need Anger in yard for this and a reanimation spell. Giving Ooze haste with Anger is the only way for this to work-any other spell (say shallow grave) would cause Ooze to loose haste upon reentry with Jace ability because it is a new object.

I understand how the interaction works, the current combo also requires multiple cards.
Reanimating an ooze with just Triskelion in the grave (for example) is equally pointless. At least with Shallow Grave + Ooze + only Jace you get to keep the ooze permanently

[Namida]

I have killed more opponents with a Devourer-pumped Ooze in combat than I have by using Triskelion's ability, and I have won at least a few games off of just casting/reanimating Triskelion and/or Devourer so I believe "They're both multiple card combos" is missing some pretty relevant context, because the deck isn't as reliant on Buried Alive/getting multiple pieces into the graveyard as you seem to imply. It also isn't as reliant on terrible cards, because Triskelion isn't terrible; it certainly isn't a Legacy All-Star, but it's better than a 2/2 with no relevant text in play that can't do much on offense or defense in this format. Basically, Jace is a good card, but at first glance I think your idea makes the deck less flexible since you're now a dedicated "3+ cards in certain zones" combo deck and you're forced to include terrible draws like Anger to actually make Jace into a combo piece.

[pandaman]

And we have enough terrible draws in Griselbrand, Devourer, and Triskelion. Of course these aren't terrible in all situations, but you usually find yourself wanting to Brainstorm them away if you have them.

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[Namida]

And we have enough terrible draws in Griselbrand, Devourer, and Triskelion. Of course these aren't terrible in all situations, but you usually find yourself wanting to Brainstorm them away if you have them.

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Anger is literally never a Legacy level card unless it's in your graveyard and hopefully it never leaves that place. You can cast Griselbrand, Devourer or Triskelion and have them not be completely embarrassing despite it being a Legacy game. My point is that those cards are mediocre draws, but not terrible like Anger is...and this is me setting the bar low enough to even say that Cinderhaze Wretch is capable of doing something relevant if it comes into play. As it stands, in my opinion Jace would need to be insanely good to make up for turning you into a dedicated three card combo deck that needs such an utterly useless card; while Jace is probably good, I have my reservations that he's that good. If there's another way to make Jace an actual combo piece that doesn't require playing a card that is basically Goblin Berserker if you ever put it into play, then I would be more willing to entertain playing Jace.

[Raystar]

And we have enough terrible draws in Griselbrand, Devourer, and Triskelion. Of course these aren't terrible in all situations, but you usually find yourself wanting to Brainstorm them away if you have them.

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My sentiment also. I'm sure there are interesting tricks to be done with Jace but I fear that the cost to be payed by loosing the very streamlined behaviour of the current lists would be too high...

[Raystar]

A couple of friends should be bringing Oozing to a tournament this week end, I'll update with their results as soon as I'll have them.

[alaska]

Never played this before, but I have most of the cards so why not.

Just to confirm how the interaction works: we can basically flip our whole deck over, right? Ooze will not gain the "sac if power >7" clause from the devourer, as it's not an activated ability...

[Raystar]

Correct, the Ooze won't be limited by the static ability of the Devourer...Good luck with the Deck! Let us know how it goes [emoji6]


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[alaska]

Correct, the Ooze won't be limited by the static ability of the Devourer...Good luck with the Deck! Let us know how it goes [emoji6]


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Cheers, that's pretty sick.

Just realized I lack the Bayous, but I'll try to work something out over the next few weeks.

[Raystar]

Cheers, that's pretty sick.

Just realized I lack the Bayous, but I'll try to work something out over the next few weeks.

You could probably get away with something like:

- Island
- 2 Bayou
+ 2swamp
+ 1 Tropical Island

...risky, but functional.

Your fetchlands would have to be polluted deltas and verdant catacombs for this to work, of course.

[alaska]

You could probably get away with something like:

- Island
- 2 Bayou
+ 2swamp
+ 1 Tropical Island

...risky, but functional.

Your fetchlands would have to be polluted deltas and verdant catacombs for this to work, of course.

I own a Trop, but not catacombs.and I'm waiting till this are reprinted. I'll work something out. It might mean picking up one Bayou; I don't mind buying duals, but fetches bother me when I know I can just wait.

[Havrekjex]

I didn`t want to bring up a budget mana base discussion, but since we`re already here, let me jump on the opportunity.

I mostly play this deck online, but in paper I only own one U-Sea and no Bayou, so I`m playing with a Watery Grave as the second U-Sea, an 8th fetch as the third U-Sea and Swamps for Bayou, with an Overgrown Tomb in the side to bring in whenever I go green. It sucks, but it`s not unplayable.

The question is: Which is the more important upgrade right now, the second U-Sea or the first Bayou? I`m leaning towards Bayou since we`re bringing in Abrupt Decay more often than not, the green splash is very significant… but I`d like some input on this.

[Echelon]

CCR remains relevant to this day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIjUY3pjN8E

But that's just my opinion.

[Havrekjex]

CCR remains relevant to this day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIjUY3pjN8E

But that's just my opinion.

First of all, LOL. Secondly, if you are ever ambushed with the absolutely terrifying task of picking music at a wedding party, CCR is one of those incredibly rare bands that are so consistent and so universally well liked, or at least accepted, that you can que up their Best Of double album and put your feet up.

(At least one person that reads this post is going to be very grateful one day.)

/derail

[Raystar]

I didn`t want to bring up a budget mana base discussion, but since we`re already here, let me jump on the opportunity.

I mostly play this deck online, but in paper I only own one U-Sea and no Bayou, so I`m playing with a Watery Grave as the second U-Sea, an 8th fetch as the third U-Sea and Swamps for Bayou, with an Overgrown Tomb in the side to bring in whenever I go green. It sucks, but it`s not unplayable.

The question is: Which is the more important upgrade right now, the second U-Sea or the first Bayou? I`m leaning towards Bayou since we`re bringing in Abrupt Decay more often than not, the green splash is very significant… but I`d like some input on this.

Yep, Bayou would be the best upgrade you could do. Another thought could be to use one of the "new" duals contained in the last expansion to supplement the USea...but I have no idea of their cost...

[Echelon]

First of all, LOL. Secondly, if you are ever ambushed with the absolutely terrifying task of picking music at a wedding party, CCR is one of those incredibly rare bands that are so consistent and so universally well liked, or at least accepted, that you can que up their Best Of double album and put your feet up.

(At least one person that reads this post is going to be very grateful one day.)

/derail

Funny enough I actually got married just over a month ago (I'm not kidding). I can confirm CCR performed admirably!

[Havrekjex]

Yep, Bayou would be the best upgrade you could do. Another thought could be to use one of the "new" duals contained in the last expansion to supplement the USea...but I have no idea of their cost...I thought about it for a minute when they were spoiled and quickly ended up on a resounding "hell no". Even in such a life total sensitive deck as this, shocks are just miles better. Battle-duals look so good at first glance, but as soon as you try building and goldfishing a mana base with them, you realize how horribly restrictive they are. They only come into play untapped as your third land, and only if your first two lands are basics, so realistically not until they come in as your fourth if you want to fetch a U-Sea early on. They see practically zero play outside of Standard, EDH and Tiny for a reason. The only exception I can find is Cinder Glade as a 1-of in Scapeshift.

On the bright side, they`re dirt cheap :)

[Raystar]

I thought about it for a minute when they were spoiled and quickly ended up on a resounding "hell no". Even in such a life total sensitive deck as this, shocks are just miles better. Battle-duals look so good at first glance, but as soon as you try building and goldfishing a mana base with them, you realize how horribly restrictive they are. They only come into play untapped as your third land, and only if your first two lands are basics, so realistically not until they come in as your fourth if you want to fetch a U-Sea early on. They see practically zero play outside of Standard, EDH and Tiny for a reason. The only exception I can find is Cinder Glade as a 1-of in Scapeshift.

On the bright side, they`re dirt cheap :)

Hehe, you are right ;)

[alaska]

Alright, bit the bullet and snagged an HP Bayou last night.

I haven't even started goldfishing yet, but I'm already ruminating on which lines are best to take. Do we jam T1 buried alive if we have it but no reanimation spell? Is it safe to let the creatures sit there for an indeterminate amount of time?


I wouldn't ask anyone to run through all the lines of the deck, that's time consuming. Maybe that's already been done in one of the older threads?

[pandaman]

Great news, more Oozers!

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[Namida]

Alright, bit the bullet and snagged an HP Bayou last night.

I haven't even started goldfishing yet, but I'm already ruminating on which lines are best to take. Do we jam T1 buried alive if we have it but no reanimation spell? Is it safe to let the creatures sit there for an indeterminate amount of time?


I wouldn't ask anyone to run through all the lines of the deck, that's time consuming. Maybe that's already been done in one of the older threads?

I guess it makes sense to cast Buried Alive ASAP if you're afraid that your opponent plays a lot of disruption in the form of soft counters or they're a non-Deathrite deck that uses discard. Personally, I would be wary of just binning all of my creatures in the dark because of Deathrite Shaman existing as a common main deck card that can punish you for it. Also, spending multiple cards to quickly cast Buried Alive might just not end up being worth it if you don't find your reanimation spell before you hit three lands to just cast the card naturally. More or less, I think the best case scenario is that you're a little faster, but the worst case scenario is that you get your combo exiled because you were impatient. In postboard games, I would never cast Buried Alive until I have everything else I need because every deck is capable of playing anti-graveyard cards and its easy enough to play around graveyard hate in this deck that I don't think it's worth the added risk of binning your creatures before you can get use from them.

[alaska]

I guess it makes sense to cast Buried Alive ASAP if you're afraid that your opponent plays a lot of disruption in the form of soft counters or they're a non-Deathrite deck that uses discard. Personally, I would be wary of just binning all of my creatures in the dark because of Deathrite Shaman existing as a common main deck card that can punish you for it. Also, spending multiple cards to quickly cast Buried Alive might just not end up being worth it if you don't find your reanimation spell before you hit three lands to just cast the card naturally. More or less, I think the best case scenario is that you're a little faster, but the worst case scenario is that you get your combo exiled because you were impatient. In postboard games, I would never cast Buried Alive until I have everything else I need because every deck is capable of playing anti-graveyard cards and its easy enough to play around graveyard hate in this deck that I don't think it's worth the added risk of binning your creatures before you can get use from them.

Thank you, that all sounds reasonable.

[Raystar]

Thank you, that all sounds reasonable.

You also want to pass through Griselbrand in G1 as much as possible. The reason is that we are still at a stage where people don't grasp correctly how to stop us and the Griselbrand move generally induce people to focus on it instead of trying to stop the Ooze (with needle, for example).

In general I try to keep the Devourer safe as much as I can, the real core of the combo is Ooze+Devourer. The best way to play Buried Alive (apart from the aftermath of a Griselbrand pass) is after having managed to have an Ooze on the table...of course, if you have the mana on T1 (4/5 mana) and BA+a reanimate spell you go for it, but Christmas only comes once a year :wink:

[pandaman]

Yup, resolving an Ooze before Buried Alive is amazingly strong. There are so many options from there.

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[Havrekjex]

What should I write in the "deck designer" field on deck registration sheets?

Also, what do I change in the primer sideboard to update it? Has anything changed after the DTT ban that we should address?

[pandaman]

3-1 at the weekly last night. Didn't hit a U deck, lost to Lands ripping two Crop Rotation in succession for Bog and the combo respectively, and won through three Phyrexian Revokers (albeit through an opponent's play mistake).

List was:

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
1 Griselbrand

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
1 Exhume

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy

Sideboard (15)

1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Iona
2 Exhume
2 Massacre
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction

R1 D&T Win 2-1. G1 I can't find the combo and die. G2 I have a T2 kill. G3 I have a T2 kill.

R2 D&T Win 1-0. G1 goes long. He has triple Revokers on Petal, Ooze, Trisk. I have Trisk and Ooze in play. He swings with the wrong Revoker and I block with Trisk (no Mom!). G2 goes to time and he goes to StP my Ooze with Devourer in the GY. I pump it to 50 power so he can't kill me in turns because of the life I gain.

G3 lands. L0-2. G1 I lead with USea, Petal, Ritual, Ooze with Entomb in hand for the T2 kill. He Wastes my USea and I don't draw any more mana until I die. G2 I get the combo but in response to Ooze hardcast he Crops for Bog (only card in hand). I do some shenanigans and get double Ooze down (the only creatures left in my deck) and go on beatdown. He rips the second Crop Rotation for his combo.

R4 v Junk. W2-0. G1 he goes T2 KotR with Wasteland on board. Fearing double Waste locking me out I YOLO Brainstorm into Ritual and Griselbrand and go Petal Ritual PImp discard Griz Shallow Grave Griz draw 14 win. G2 he ETutors for RiP, so I need to go. So I do, with Shallow Grave on Griz for the combo.

There are no FoWs in the store for some reason. Oozing is in a good place. Sideboard against D&T was:

-1 Necrotic Ooze
-1 Buried Alive
-1 Exhume
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Gitaxian Probe
+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Massacre

I'm not sure about Chrome Mox though. Ideally we want to win quickly and it's useful for that. On the other hand it gets hit by Revoker and Flickerwisp. Thoughts?

Also, what to sideboard against Lands? I haven't played against this new combo version much at all. I brought in Decay (for Chalice/Sphere of Resistance) and Surgical (for Loam or Depths/Stage). Board was:

-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Buried Alive
-1 Necrotic Ooze
-1 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Reanimate
+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Surgical Extraction


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[Raystar]

Good job Panda! A bit of bad luck against land...I don't generally side in the Surgical Extractions, at the moment I'm considering adding Needles to the sideboard to replace Boseiju and Iona, they would certainly get in for Thespian Stage...

[Raystar]

What should I write in the "deck designer" field on deck registration sheets?

Also, what do I change in the primer sideboard to update it? Has anything changed after the DTT ban that we should address?

You can write whatever you want mate ;) we have all participated in creating the deck.

My current SB (I'm experimenting with Needle) is:

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
1 Duress
2 Pithing Needle
2 Exhume
2 Massacre
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Flex Slot (I go back and forth between Iona and Thoughtseize)

[Havrekjex]

You can write whatever you want mate ;) we have all participated in creating the deck.

My current SB (I'm experimenting with Needle) is:

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
1 Duress
2 Pithing Needle
2 Exhume
2 Massacre
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Flex Slot (I go back and forth between Iona and Thoughtseize)When I play online, I usually go with a Needle in the flex slot, and I`ve been happy with it. It`s fun bringing it in against the BGx decks if they`ve sided out all their Decays in game 2. What now, DRS? If they bring some decays in again for game 3 just to deal with my one-of Needle, that`s a win too.

And of course it`s good against STD. Ooops, I mean SDT.

Is Iona on its way out? I can see how she`s not as useful now that OmniTell isn`t a huge deal, but she just seems like she brings a whole lot for just one slot. I`m biased though because I love the card to bits and I`ve played her in practically every format she`s legal in.

[Havrekjex]

How do we sideboard against RUG Delver? I'm oozing this upcoming Sunday, and there's this intimidatingly skilled player that's always on RUG Delver with 4x Stifle.

[Raystar]

How do we sideboard against RUG Delver? I'm oozing this upcoming Sunday, and there's this intimidatingly skilled player that's always on RUG Delver with 4x Stifle.

RUG Delver is a nasty deck to play against. If you are sure you are going to face some, the 4th Ooze in the SB (in the flexible slot) will definitely help. You will probably only have the Ooze and the decays to bring in and hope for the best...it is pretty rough, definitely our worse matchup together with Miracles...

[Havrekjex]

RUG Delver is a nasty deck to play against. If you are sure you are going to face some, the 4th Ooze in the SB (in the flexible slot) will definitely help. You will probably only have the Ooze and the decays to bring in and hope for the best...it is pretty rough, definitely our worse matchup together with Miracles...Well damn man that's not what I wanted to hear at all! At least I can blame that when I lose. Legacy tournaments around here are often 12-20 players and this guy is one of the regulars. He's also the only one on RUG in my area afaik, while there are several of those Miracles vermin. But I'm not surprised that it's a bad matchup, tons of counterspells + Stifle + Wasteland + a fast clock isn't exactly what we want to see. I'm not looking forward to choosing between baiting out Stifle with lands or expecting to pay the first 7 life for zero cards :frown:

[Raystar]

Well damn man that's not what I wanted to hear at all! At least I can blame that when I lose. Legacy tournaments around here are often 12-20 players and this guy is one of the regulars. He's also the only one on RUG in my area afaik, while there are several of those Miracles vermin. But I'm not surprised that it's a bad matchup, tons of counterspells + Stifle + Wasteland + a fast clock isn't exactly what we want to see. I'm not looking forward to choosing between baiting out Stifle with lands or expecting to pay the first 7 life for zero cards :frown:

The best way out is to get a ooze on the ground followed by entomb, they can't beat that. Your best hand is a mix of lands, fast mana, an ooze, an entomb and a discard. If you manage to get the ooze in play they can only use bolt and hope that they have the counterspell for your entomb.

Maybe you get lucky and this guy crashes against a wall of BUG Delvers instead of meeting you :wink:

[Havrekjex]

Thanks!

Next Q: My current SB contains:

2 Reverent Silence
4 Decays
1 Pithing Needle
-
2 Massacre
2 Exhume
1 Iona
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
1 Ooze

How much of that do I board in against Miracles? All the top 7 cards are great in the MU, but would I be over-sideboarding at that point?

Actually, is that fourth Decay overkill? It seems like our #1 SB card, so I figure why not.

[pandaman]

Good job Panda! A bit of bad luck against land...I don't generally side in the Surgical Extractions, at the moment I'm considering adding Needles to the sideboard to replace Boseiju and Iona, they would certainly get in for Thespian Stage...
Thanks mate. I'm interested in Needle. I would run:

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
2 Massacre
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Ground Seal

I'll see how that goes. There was a fair bit of DRS around last week so Ground Seal might not be bad. Are the Exhumes needed with no Iona? Is there a lot of Chalice right now?

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[pandaman]

Thanks!

Next Q: My current SB contains:

2 Reverent Silence
4 Decays
1 Pithing Needle
-
2 Massacre
2 Exhume
1 Iona
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
1 Ooze

How much of that do I board in against Miracles? All the top 7 cards are great in the MU, but would I be over-sideboarding at that point?

Actually, is that fourth Decay overkill? It seems like our #1 SB card, so I figure why not.
I'd board all 7. You have heaps of time against Miracles. Decay will clear CB and allow you to continue to set up using cantrips.

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[Raystar]

Thanks mate. I'm interested in Needle. I would run:

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
2 Massacre
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Ground Seal

I'll see how that goes. There was a fair bit of DRS around last week so Ground Seal might not be bad. Are the Exhumes needed with no Iona? Is there a lot of Chalice right now?

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Chalice is mostly coming from AggroLoam variants, I haven't seen many MUDs around. BTW, if you use Ground Seal I believe you NEED to have exhume in your SB.

[Havrekjex]

I went 3-2 yesterday. My main is the one in the primer, except -1 U.Sea +1 Fetch (couldn`t get my hands on that third U.Sea) -1 Probe +1 Thoughtseize.

Sideboard:
4 Decays
2 Massacre
2 Exhume
2 Reverent Silence
1 Pithing Needle
1 Iona
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
1 Ooze

I didn't take notes, so things are a bit sketchy here and there.


Match 1 - Miracles. I sit down across one of the top players in my country, and I know he is probably on Miracles, so my palms start sweating. G1 He keeps a mediocre hand, I get to strip his counterspells away and go to town. G2 I face the usual wall of denial, the game goes long after I Decay his CB. My closest attempt is an attacking Ooze and an Entomb in hand while he has lethal angels on the board, but he has a Canonist to block and he`s not falling for it. G3 I keep a land and two Brainstorms, but he counters both. Whaaat? We're both low on cards and start digging. I have a lategame combo attempt where he has Top out and I know he only has a Brainstorm in hand, but of course he storms up a FoW, taps Top to draw a blue card and FoW my shit. Maaan, that was so close. I'm all spent and he comes back with CB after that and I do the slow motion death thing.

SB: +4 Decay +2 Reverent +1 Top +2 Exhume -1 Mox -1 Ooze -2 Reanimate -1 Buried Alive -4 Ponder/Probe

0-1


Match 2: Sneak & Show. Old school guy. I don't know the deck too well. G1/2/3 he mulls to 5/5/6, which I'm not too sad about. G1 My disruption lines up well with his few counterspells, his starting 5 sucks and my combo is faster than his. I have G2 in the bag, but I make a misplay so excruciatingly stupid that I can`t bring myself to tell you about it, even in anonymity. G3 I reluctantly keep a fast, but sketchy glass cannon style hand with no lands or BS/Ponder to dig for one, Probe him, see a very fast hand with no forces, so I go off on Petals and Rituals turn 1. He has no cards to scoop. That could easily have gone south, I took a big risk there.

+1 Pithing Needle -1 Mox (in retrospect I`d like the Duress here too, and I`m not sure if taking out the Mox was right)

1-1


Match 3: Shardless BUG, another guy I whose name I know from articles and ranking lists. G1 I`m on the play, I know that he`s on Shardless and I have a fast hand, so I blindly Cabal his Force and force the combo before his DRS loses summoning sickness. G2 he plants a T1 Spellbomb, I don't see a Decay and I don't get enough time to do the Ooze-on-table-into-BA routine before his Goyf beats me to death. G3 draws out, he sticks loads of hate and I get a Decay for each of them, but I take some hard hits while doing so. With my back against the wall staring at a two turn lethal and no active GY hate, I go to 2 life to draw 7 via an Ooze, then Brainstorm … and I still don't have get pieces I need, so I`m dead. How disappointing.

+4 Decay +1 Ooze +1 Pithing Needle -1 Mox -1 Reanimate -4 Ponder/Probe

1-2


Match 4: D&T. G1 he starts and my hand is a turn too slow to go off before his turn two Thalia. I`d seen his hand and had my fingers crossed for the Stoneforge, but this guy knows how to play D&T. Taxlady slows me enough down for his team to beat me in time. G2 I go off with hardcast Ooze and Buried Alive with a Containment Priest on his side of the table. Nice anti-reanimator tech, dude! G3 He gets the picture and jams a Revoker naming Ooze. I've seen his Flickerwisp and he has a vial on three, so I go into the tank for an unreasonable amount of time, then decide to play a Decay in his second main phase (NOT end step) on his equipped Revoker (SoF&I) to draw the Wisp out. I succeed, he vials in Wisp targeting Revoker, Decay fizzles, Revoker comes into play again EOT, I untap and Massacre his entire team. It was so beautiful it made my eyes water. He's stuck topdecking and I jam out asap.

+2 Massacre +4 Abrupt Decay -1 Mox -1 Cabal Therapy -4 Ponder/Probe

2-2


Match 5: Mono black Pox. In both games I get nice hands and I get to Brainstorm pieces to the top of my library in response to his first IoKs. Such fun. G1 I figure it's better to act fast before my hand and lands are toast, and I get a hand fast enough to do so while still having the time to hide my nuts in the library with a BS. I think it was something like T1 land, his T1 IoK, BS in response to put Entomb+SG on top, he takes a cantrip, T2 I draw one of them, cantrip the other one up, Ritual-Entomb-Shallow, rock the Grizzy, draw 21 and you know how the rest goes. I felt invincible and also utterly in love with my Brainstorms, who doesn`t love a good BS hide. G2 I saw nothing but swamps, even fetched ones, so Iona is my plan. This time the BS hiding game slows me down as I get few lands and no fast mana, and I have to split Entomb and Exhume between two turns. With Iona in the yard and Exhume in hand, my heart races as he taps three swamps. Omg Liliana please GTFO I have no Decays! Thank god it's just his return from the graveyard forever style small beater (what's that card) and I lock him out with Iona. He tells me he prayed to draw a Liliana there and I acknowledge what a perfect play that would have been.

+1 Iona +2 Exhume -2 Shallow Grave -1 Ponder

3-2 (10th out of 22 players, missed the top 8 by OMW)


All in all a fun day, deck feels good and both my losses were incredibly close, though so were some of my wins of course, and I got the Sneak match basically for free off of his mulligans. The deck feels good and is a blast to play as always. The worst part about it is when you have everything you need to go off except hand information and you don't know whether to activate Ritual-YOLO mode and risk losing half my hand to one counterspell, or do nothing and wait for a safer opportunity later. I`m sure it`s either practice or just the nature of a headshot combo deck, or both.

As for the 75, I`m pretty neutral on the -1 Probe +1 Thoughtseize. Sometimes it was better, sometimes it was worse. I`m opposed to messing around with the primer mainboard any more than small things like adding a TS, adding an Exhume or trying the extra cantrip… the 60 just feels too tight to change around too much, every card serves an important purpose. I also like the idea of another Pithing Needle to the side as it hits every GY hate card I saw all day plus DRS and Top. Replacing the fourth Decay with one might be a thing, since they often get sided in together (Miracles, anything with DRS).

[Raystar]

Is any of you guys the player that did this?

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18819&iddeck=142789

The Ooze love is spreading ;)

[Havrekjex]

The Helm is there to win off of your opponent's RIP, I presume? That's hilarious! I can't agree with cutting Putrid Imp, and I'd love to hear about the Confidants in the sideboard. I have a set that I'd love to use in Legacy too.

[Pin_Vlc]

Is any of you guys the player that did this?

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18819&iddeck=142789

The Ooze love is spreading ;)


It's mine :smile: .

[Raystar]

It's mine :smile: .

Good job!

[Havrekjex]

It's mine :smile: .Well done! Could you please share how you use the Confidants?

[Raystar]

Just registered for a tournament on the 13th of December! Can't wait to Ooze around :wink:

[Havrekjex]

Just registered for a tournament on the 13th of December! Can't wait to Ooze around :wink:Got one coming up on the 18th. Aw yeah :b:

[Raystar]

New thinking for my next sideboard:

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
1 Boseiju
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
2 Massacre
3 Exhume
2 Carpet of Flowers

I raised the Exhumes due to the possible increase in chalice decks and switched the extractions for the carpet of flowers to try to improve the RUG Delver matchup. I haven't made any test yet and I'm swamped with work, so I guess this is going to be a blind experiment at the next tournament ;)

[Havrekjex]

I've been thinking about the RUG Delver matchup: How about Elesh Norn? They don't seem to have any way to deal with her in the usual 75, and the -2/-2 pretty much shuts them down.

[Raystar]

I've been thinking about the RUG Delver matchup: How about Elesh Norn? They don't seem to have any way to deal with her in the usual 75, and the -2/-2 pretty much shuts them down.

Well...they don't have a way to deal with Griselbrand too...

The problem is that you generally don't get to reanimate any of those guys ;)

[pandaman]

Had some fun last night Oozing Style and Class at the local. Went 3-1.

R1 v Aluren (Martin Goldman-Kirsk-esque list without FoW main and with 8 discard). Loss 0-2

G1 I eat two Thoughtseize and a Cabal Therapy followed by a DRS, so I can’t manage to assemble enough of a hand to kill through its GY-eating ability before I die.

G2 I draw absolute garbage of my cantrips and he T4 Alurens me.

R2 v Merfolk W 2-1

G1 I triple Entomb in his 3rd turn end step to bait out some FoWs, and nab one. I have enough mana to play around his counters in my next turn to get an Ooze into play and win.

G2 I reaminate Griselbrand but he has islandwalking Folk and therefore I have to let Pithing Needle resolve without getting to draw any cards. I hope lifelink will be enough. With Islandwalk and Lord spam it’s not.

G3 I accumulate land drops with my cantrips and eventually clean out FoWs with discard and play around taxing counterspells to swing with Ooze and a Devourer in the yard.

R3 v Mono U Myr.dec W 2-0.

He has no interaction apart from a Pithing Needle on Griselbrand in G2. I have double Entomb and Shallow Grave so I just do the Ooze Devourer swing thing.

R4 v Lands W2-0

G1 on the draw I Probe into a T1 kill.

G2 I Therapy Crop Rotation, hitting one. He gambles for a Chalice but loses the 50/50. Anyway, I have Buried Alive into Exhume or Shallow Grave the next turn for the win and he doesn’t rip the Bog or Crop to stop me between those turns.

List was the same as the other week. Watch out GP Prague next year Raystar and I are making it an all Ooze final!

[Raystar]

List was the same as the other week. Watch out GP Prague next year Raystar and I are making it an all Ooze final!

How cool would that be :wink:

Good job with the tournament, tho!

[Raystar]

Quick report on the tournament....I made a mess: lost 2 matches like an idiot and decided to get the train back home...

I had the feeling this morning that this would not be my day...but I was embarrassed by how badly I played...

TLDR: nothing to see here...

[Havrekjex]

Chin the fuck up oozer, it happens to everyone.

[pandaman]

Head up Raystar it happens to us all. Just get some more MTGO Oozing in. I am thinking about buying it. Do you think it goes all right online?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Raystar]

Head up Raystar it happens to us all. Just get some more MTGO Oozing in. I am thinking about buying it. Do you think it goes all right online?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

The only problem you have with oozing on MTGO is the overabundance of Miracles. The good part is that Oozing is a very fast deck and helps a lot in managing the time limits imposed by the UI, once you have learned the key binds you can go through pretty quick.
The other advantage is that, a part from Griselbrand, the deck is pretty inexpensive online; if you are not picky on cards editions (like I am with "real" cards) you can probably buy the lot for a reasonable amount.

I know it happens to everybody but had you seen what I did you would ban me from this thread :wink:

[Havrekjex]

Just to save you from choking on your coffee that first time like I did, note that the card Buried Alive is somewhat bugged. You pick the cards in the order you want to put them in your graveyard, and then they seem to be put in the yard in random order. But when you cast Shallow Grave, it still reanimates whatever you picked last. It`s just a misrepresentation of the order in the yard.

Other than that, and the fact that going off can be a bit tedious if you are forced to go through with the full kill, I love playing the deck online. It`s nice to have a fast deck on MTGO so that you can squeeze in a match here and there without a huge time commitment. Also, people`s reactions to the combo are hilarious.

@Raystar: last time I played, I had two Cabal Therapy against tapped out Sneak and Show, I cast my first one blindly naming Force, revealed Force/BS/Griselbrand, snatched Force, cast my second Therapy naming… Brainstorm! Because that`s what you do against reanimator, I guess? Passed turn with a next turn win, lost the game to a top decked Sneak. It can`t possibly have been worse than that. He tilted pretty hard when I still won the match after executing that stinker.

[Raystar]

Just to save you from choking on your coffee that first time like I did, note that the card Buried Alive is somewhat bugged. You pick the cards in the order you want to put them in your graveyard, and then they seem to be put in the yard in random order. But when you cast Shallow Grave, it still reanimates whatever you picked last. It`s just a misrepresentation of the order in the yard.

Other than that, and the fact that going off can be a bit tedious if you are forced to go through with the full kill, I love playing the deck online. It`s nice to have a fast deck on MTGO so that you can squeeze in a match here and there without a huge time commitment. Also, people`s reactions to the combo are hilarious.

@Raystar: last time I played, I had two Cabal Therapy against tapped out Sneak and Show, I cast my first one blindly naming Force, revealed Force/BS/Griselbrand, snatched Force, cast my second Therapy naming… Brainstorm! Because that`s what you do against reanimator, I guess? Passed turn with a next turn win, lost to a top decked Sneak. It can`t possibly have been worse than that. :cry:

It was...I was playing against Lands, won the first lost the second to a first turn Sphere of Resistance missing one mana to go off against his third turn Marit Lage. We are playing G3, I open with Therapy calling crop rotation and of course he has another first turn sphere. Luckily I have the combo in hand and I know I can still win through that. We move on and he also gets a Port, I bin Griselbrand on my third turn and I can trick him on Shallow Grave in response to Port activation during my upkeep. He has dredged all the time, so I know he doesn't have a CR in hand. Everything goes according to plan and I have 4 mana out for next turn. I draw 14 and I have Devourer, Triskelion and ooze in hand without any reanimation spell. I decided to bin triskelion and Devourer, pass the turn and cast Ooze the turn after...what do I do? I also bin the Ooze....pass the turn, look at my hand and think of Captain Pickard in the best interpretation of a facepalm ever made...Ok, I have a ponder, maybe I get lucky next turn (while calling myself an idiot). He dredges (so no CR again), I ponder in my turn and see Ooze!! Pass (I only have 3 mana left on the table) and I'm ready for the combo next turn. He draws and drops lands (he has 2 CR already dredged in his GY). I untap, cast Ooze and he responds with the 3rd CR he just ripped from the top in the only draw he made the entire game...

I was ready to dig a hole and bury myself in it...

[Raystar]

Deleted...I reposted...

[Havrekjex]

I draw 14 and I have Devourer, Triskelion and ooze in hand without any reanimation spell. I decided to bin triskelion and Devourer, pass the turn and cast Ooze the turn after...what do I do? I also bin the Ooze....pass the turn, look at my hand and think of Captain Pickard in the best interpretation of a facepalm ever made...That`s definitely tilt-worthy, but try to look on the bright side: you`re never ever going to do that again. :smile:

[Raystar]

That`s definitely tilt-worthy, but try to look on the bright side: you`re never ever going to do that again. :smile:

...I hope so, next time I'll bring a "slapper": somebody that will slap my neck every time I make a stupid move :wink:

[Havrekjex]

I`m bringing the ooze to a small local thing after work today, can`t wait. List:

Main Deck:

2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou

4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive
4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize

1 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
1 Triskelion


Sideboard:

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Exhume
2 Massacre
2 Reverent Silence
2 Pithing Needle
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Helm of Obedience


I`m not confident about cutting Mox, but I really want a Thoughtseize in here somewhere, and when I cut a Probe last time, I regretted it. If I end up missing my Mox, I`ll either try replacing a Ponder, or rock it Pandaman style and play Thoughtseize as my 61th card.

Killing someone with Helm off of their own RIP is something I need to have done at least once in my life, so that stays until I can cross that from my bucket list.


Edit: Off topic, I hope you all have your ATQ Triskelions by now, because those beauties were recently bought out and tripled in price.

Edit 2: List updated with a U-Sea I borrowed. I`m finally picking up a second one for myself tomorrow, because playing with shocklands in this deck is beyond terrible.

[Raystar]

I`m bringing the ooze to a small local thing after work today, can`t wait. List:

Main Deck:

2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Underground Sea
1 Watery Grave :(
2 Bayou

4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive
4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize

1 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
1 Triskelion


Sideboard:

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Exhume
2 Massacre
2 Reverent Silence
2 Pithing Needle
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Helm of Obedience


I`m not confident about cutting Mox, but I really want a Thoughtseize in here somewhere, and when I cut a Probe last time, I regretted it. If I end up missing my Mox, I`ll either try replacing a Ponder, or rock it Pandaman style and play Thoughtseize as my 61th card.

Killing someone with Helm off of their own RIP is something I need to have done at least once in my life, so that stays until I can cross that from my bucket list.


Edit: Off topic, I hope you all have your ATQ Triskelions by now, because those beauties were recently bought out and tripled in price.

Good list. I don't sleep well without the Mox but I think it is more me being a maniac :wink:

Of course I have an ATQ Triskelion...but I wonder what's happening...

[Havrekjex]

It`s a straight buyout. I guess Mr. Handy is kind of playable in the 93/94 format, where Black/White Knight are staples, WW is a tier 1 deck and 6 mana is reachable. So some bastard bought all they could get their hands on just to put them back up at TCGplayer at triple the price. Buying all copies of a rare from an old set like ATQ is relatively easy, since there aren`t that many copies out there. It happens to random Legends cards all the time.

Edit:

Tournament report!

Match 1: Helm/Leyline of the Void combo. I almost fell off my chair when he slammed a T0 Leyline game 1. Turns out his linear strategy is to mull/Serum Powders to a turn 0 Leyline every game and then ramp/tutor into a Helm. My only hope is to fish for Reverents post-board. I don't ever find them. He dies to his own Spoils of the Vault game two, so I lose 1-2.
We do 3-4 fun games and I'm never close.

Match 2: Elves. Game 1 I durdle and my cantrips are awful. Game 2 I Decay his DRS and go to town. Game 3 he blindsides me with a Leyline of the Void. I hate that card, why is it everywhere all of a sudden? 1-2

Match 3: Elves. He does nothing relevant and I walk all over him.
2-0.
He kind of seems upset, as if he feels like he should have won, asks me why I choose to play something so unreliable instead of straight Reanimator. I ask if he wants to play some more and I win three of out four pre-board just for fun games. Shouldn't have doubted the ooze.

Match 4: Storm. He does nothing relevant before I turn two and three him respectively. 2-0.

Ended up on 2-2, which I`m completely fine with considering that the first round was against a fringe deck that might literally be our worst imaginable matchup.

[Pin_Vlc]

Well done! Could you please share how you use the Confidants?

hello !

I played confidants and tendrils vs control deck .I cut the combo -3 buried -2 necrotic -1 triskelion -1devourer -1 griselbrand -2 exhume and take confidants, tendrils, decay...

T1 dark ritual cabal+dark confidant is very nice. Miracles side out swords to plousares and terminus,and with 2-3 confidant's atack we can win with a small storm.

But i continue testing !!!

[pandaman]

The Triskelion buyout is likely also to do with it becoming very playable in Vintage after Chalice of the Voice was banned. The majority of MUD decks now have three of them in the maindeck, along with playsets of Arcbound Ravager, Lodestone Golem, and Hangarback Walker.

Two decks in a tournament with LotV is tough mate, hard luck. Realistically, though, you don't usually hit those things. You won the other two matchups easily, which is testament to the power of the deck and good quality of your play.

I'm going to Ooze this coming Tuesday night because it's the holidays baby! Merry Oozing Christmas to you all!

[pandaman]

I have a foil Triskelion from Mirrodin, so my entire combo is foil (Ooze, PImp, and Trisk). Need to get foil Grizzy next.

[Havrekjex]

Don't worry, I have faith in this deck and I can see myself playing it for years. I believe it is about as powerful as a graveyard dependant combo deck can be, and I have a positive win/loss ratio even as a format and ooze novice, and I still do a lot of misplays. It's been said before, but I love its flavor-correct ability to slip (well, ooze) through any small opening and just win. I'm used to playing GBx style midrange decks, which feels kinda hack'n'slash, and this deck feels like a sniper rifle in comparison.

A huge bonus is getting underestimated all the time. They see me go off and think it's cute and clunky and not a "real deck", and remain confident for game 2 and 3, but then I do it again just as streamlined as the first time, and again and again, and their respect for the ooze grows slowly.



As for deck aesthetics, I'm all about first prints and searchability. We spend so much time searching through our deck that I want to make that as comfy as possible. Crisp white bordered duals and basics (7th basics - haters gonna hate), black bordered everything else, japanese Petals so I don't look twice at them when searching for Trisk or Devo, and I'm probably going to get my Grizzy blood splatter altered to make it pop. Tempest Rituals for nostalgic reasons. Oh, and one of my Entombs has an ice cream cone tournament stamp on top of the guy's head, it's hilarious.

[Pin_Vlc]

My current Sideboard:

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Massacre
2 Pithing Needle
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Helm of Obedience
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All ( im testing it )

3 xxx Free slots .

Ideas ? i need stuff vs leyline, chain or vapor or reverent silence ?
And the last slot ? Random discard vs combo ? Dark confidant ?