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MGB
01-13-2016, 06:46 PM
To find the current (under construction) Primer please follow the links here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30299-DECK-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=936559&viewfull=1#post936559), here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30299-DECK-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=936561&viewfull=1#post936561) and here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30299-DECK-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=936562&viewfull=1#post936562).
Dice.


This is the thread for all discussion of the new Oath of the Gatewatch Eldrazi in a classic "Stompy" shell featuring Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere, and Sol-Lands (Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors).

The idea of this deck is to use the "Sol lands" of Legacy (Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors) to power out lock pieces such as Chalice of the Void and Thorn of Amethyst, and then use additional "Sol lands" (Eldrazi Temple, Eye of Ugin) that pay for Eldrazi creatures to power out disruptive and aggressive Eldrazi creatures printed in the Battle for Zendikar / Oath of the Gatewatch block. The basic structure of this deck features:

The Necessary Lands:
4 Ancient Tomb
3-4 City of Traitors
3-4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple

The Necessary Prison Element:
4 Chalice of the Void

The Necessary Eldrazi Creatures:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endless One


Beyond that, some lists play additional disruption in Thorn of Amethyst or Trinisphere, additional Eldrazi beyond the core 16 such as Endbringer, or Eldrazi Displacer, or Oblivion Sower or even Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger, and additional utility lands such as Cavern of Souls, or Wasteland, or Mishra's Factory, or Karakas, or some combination thereof.


As a reference point, Caleb Durward's original article: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/tying-the-knot-with-thought-knot-seer/

He proposes the following list:


Lands
4 x Eldrazi Temple
3 x Eye of Ugin
4 x Ancient Tomb
3 x City of Traitors
4 x Wasteland
4 x Cavern of Souls
2 x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 x Bojuka Bog
Creatures
4 x Thought-Knot Seer
4 x Reality Smasher
4 x Oblivion Sower
4 x Matter Reshaper

Spells
4 x Mox Diamond
4 x Chalice of the Void
3 x Trinisphere
2 x Batterskull
2 x Umezawa's Jitte
2 x Sword of Fire and Ice
1 x Dismember


Here is a list that Gerry Thompson piloted to the finals of the Starcitygames Legacy Open in Philadelphia on 2/28/16:


Creatures (21)

4 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer

Lands (25)

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Spells (14)

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Mox Diamond
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Dismember
1 Warping Wail

Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
2 Sphere of Resistance
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Dismember
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 All Is Dust




Remember, this thread is intended to consolidate discussion of Stompy Eldrazi into one place. This is not about an Eldrazi deck featuring Cabal Therapy and Deathrite Shaman, nor is it a thread about Eldrazi in a white shell with Stoneforge Mystic.

I personally believe that the excellent new Eldrazi creatures might finally make the Stompy shell with Chalice and Trinisphere a borderline Tier 1/Tier 1.5 deck if we come to a consensus on the best possible configuration. The potential of the new creatures such as Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher is simply through the roof and will provide exciting new opportunities for deckbuilders not only in Modern but Legacy as well.

korstructure
01-14-2016, 12:50 AM
I like this direction.

I have a few ideas about this deck. But three solid SB suggestions: Chains of Mephistopheles, Toxic Deluge, and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. I think those will be vital cards for us going forward.

Echelon
01-14-2016, 03:09 AM
Perhaps one or two Diabolic Intent would fit nicely in this deck. They play incredibly well with Matter Reshaper and can find you exactly the card you need.

Dihensoeur
01-14-2016, 03:15 AM
I like the idea, but doesn't like :
2 x Blight Herder: Never trigger, it's just a 4/5 vanilla too weak for me
1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger: Powerful in modern, but not in Legacy because too slow for me and I think Ulamog with Annihilator is better.

Anyway, you should play, at least x3, All Is Dust in order to clean the board.
This spell can be easily played (Eldrazi type) and so will return many situations in your favor.

MD.Ghost
01-14-2016, 06:03 AM
First: Why we need 3! Threads with an Eldrazi Topic.... it isn't clear if any build will be solid enough for an "Established" Deck, which means it also got some nice results and can keep up with the meta.

Second: As it was already mentioned by Ralf at the BW Eldrazi Thread, a mono/colorless "Stompy Shell" with Chalice+Trinisphere should be look like this more or less (i changed minor slots and added a random sideboard idea)

Land (24)
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
2x Vesuva

Creature (21)
4x Eldrazi Mimic
3x Endbringer
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Endless One

Rest (15)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Trinisphere
4x Warping Wail
3x All Is Dust

Sideboard (15)
3x Faerie Macabre
3x Mindbreak Trap
3x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Ratchet Bomb
1x Karn Liberated
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Wastes

If you go this way you don't need a color, if you add a color you can't go big enough (no endbringer, all is dust etc.) and should work either on a port of the modern Bx version, or add the prison stuff like chalice&trinisphere and splash one or two colors, which lead to another playstyle (like my stoneforge midrange brew) with other benefits. The questions are: What is your playstyle and which build will be the best for the legacy tournament environment.

Redkid43
01-14-2016, 08:09 AM
Hmm..

Is the Post manabase worth it? We can go super big, but we end up playing out like a bad version of 12-post or even some builds of MUD that play the post mana.

Is Endbringer okay? He (it?) seems too slow...

Dihensoeur
01-14-2016, 08:26 AM
Endbringer is slow but I think x1 is ok cause it can do some stuff for mid/late game.
Post mana base allow us to gain life (so time) and to use Eye of ugin to "draw" in late game, I think we need to test and compare.

I appreciate Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth because it "converts" Eye of Ugin to "3 manas", so we can have 4 manas T2 this way (T1 Urborg, T2 Eye of ugin).
Moreover, x4 Cavern + some Urborg allow us to exploit black Eldrazi as one-of MD or sideboard (or some spells like dismember without pay life).

Is Mimic powerful ?

MD.Ghost
01-14-2016, 09:54 AM
Hmm..

Is the Post manabase worth it? We can go super big, but we end up playing out like a bad version of 12-post or even some builds of MUD that play the post mana.

Is Endbringer okay? He (it?) seems too slow...

Post Mana allow to go "big enough" which means play Eldrazi with 5-6 Mana fast enough and even use a few Slots for All is Dust / Planeswalker or Eldrazi Bosses like Ugin or Kozilek. The Speed should be above 12Post (besides Show&Tell) and it is the only way to avoid a MUD Shell with Manastones (or the nasty Worker). Without Post Mana you should try another build with Mox and lower Manacost.

Endbringer is ok - he and the Eye of Ugin Ability can be good enough if the game ends in a grindy battle. So far i tend to cut 1 Endbringer (2 seems enough) and add a 3rd Endless One because he is super flexible and can act as an early Eldrazi or a Finisher - and sometimes it matters if you need 5 or 6 Mana.



I appreciate Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth because it "converts" Eye of Ugin to "3 manas", so we can have 4 manas T2 this way (T1 Urborg, T2 Eye of ugin).

Is Mimic powerful ?

Yeah i think you are right. I would cut 1 Vesuva and 1 Cavern (if you stay colorless 3 should work well enough) and add 2 Urborg - but no Black at all because this needs much more sources (mox, and/or black duals etc.)

Ralf suggested Mimic in the other Thread - but yeah i like it so far. Can be played T1 with Tomb/Eye/Temple and will be a killer if you spam all the other Dudes with 4/4, 5/5 or X/X - it helps to close out games instead of ramping/durdle action.


Current list after sitting around screwing around last night.


@Cyborg you should post the list (that was the idea from MGB - see starting post) at the BW Eldrazi Thread. But for all the "Colorfull Eldrazi builds" please use lands like Caves of Koilos over Duals (some Duals can be still ok) if you go for a 2nd color. Lands like Caves will allow you to get the "colorless" sources and will work well enough with all the core spells from the deck. You don't want to lose games if your opponents waste the Sollands and you only have plains, swamps, urborg etc. in play - you want to be able to cast Warping Wail, Thought-Knot Seer etc all the time if you have the mana.

----------
I would change my colorless build here the following way:
-1 Endbringer (2 should still fine enough)
+1 Endless One (up to 3 because he tends from early pressure to a lategame bomb)
-1 Vesuva
-1 Cavern
+2 Urborg (as explained above, i think Dihensoeur should be right to add the "Swamps" legend which will also help to lower the Tomb Damage if needed)

Side:
+2nd Karn over the Ugin - Karn is faster and will allow us to kill permanents in the mirror, against MUD, 12Post etc. Ugin is simply a better all is dust, but i think with 3 All is Dust (which will be cheap as hell with all the Eldrazi Lands) at main the powerfull Sweeper is all we want.
+2 Thorn of Amethyst over Mindbreak Trap (Thorn can affect other Matchups besides Storm and will also gain advantage against Burn etc.)
+2 Tsabo's Web (maybe MGB is right here and maybe the number must be greater, but the Web against Wastelands or Lands.dec at all will be good)
-1 Revoker/ -1 Bomb (needed space but its all about how important stuff like Tsabo's Web or Graveyard Interaction finally will be, so a lot stuff to test)

Ralf
01-14-2016, 09:57 AM
First
If you go this way you don't need a color, if you add a color you can't go big enough (no endbringer, all is dust etc.) and should work either on a port of the modern Bx version, or add the prison stuff like chalice&trinisphere and splash one or two colors, which lead to another playstyle (like my stoneforge midrange brew) with other benefits. The questions are: What is your playstyle and which build will be the best for the legacy tournament environment.

The list I gave in the other thread has been properly proxied and tested during several nights against:

- Miracle
- Shardless
- D&T
- Canadian Thresh
- S&T
- ANT
- Reanimator

Only preboard games.

All these matches are positive G1 or 50/50 (mostly vs combo).

Displacer is unfortunately much needed. It just flat out wins games on its own.

The problem is that the deck folds to "Blood moon / loam +wasteland".

Here is a new list (untested atm) to solve the aforementioned issue.
You lose some velocity to get a better manabase.
I'm not sure we need the post manabase. Vesuva are usually copying Temple anyway...

One would have to assess whether the velocity loss is > to the loss to blood moon.deck.

Here is the list:


Lands (23)

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
5 Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Vesuva
2 Eye of Ugin


Creatures (24)

2 Endless one
2 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endbringer


Artifact (7)

4 Chalice of The Void
3 Trinisphere


Instant (4)

4 Warping Wail


Sorcery (2)

2 All is Dust


Sideboard

3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tormod Crypt
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Umezawa's jitte
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 All is dust
1 Kozilek, butcher of truth

Happy testing.

Edit: the side is just a rough idea.
I think we would need 2 more cards against infect.

Cire
01-14-2016, 10:09 AM
First: Why we need 3! Threads with an Eldrazi Topic.... it isn't clear if any build will be solid enough for an "Established" Deck, which means it also got some nice results and can keep up with the meta.
.

I am not sure if this was a question but so far the three threads are:

Eldrazi Stompy with a Color
Eldrazi Stompy without a Color
Eldrazi "Midrange" (no chalice)

As such lists with Displacer or Strangler seem to belong in the other thread, right?

Ralf
01-14-2016, 10:13 AM
I am not sure if this was a question but so far the three threads are:

Eldrazi Stompy with a Color
Eldrazi Stompy without a Color
Eldrazi "Midrange" (no chalice)

As such lists with Displacer or Strangler seem to belong in the other thread, right?

Devoid is a color ?

There should be only one thread I guess: Eldrazi.

We are trying to define a new archetype.
To play chalice/no chalice, blablabla are just ideas.

As long as we are playing Eldrazi + Cavern + Temple, I guess we are all about the same idea.

Cire
01-14-2016, 10:17 AM
Devoid is a color ?

Ha, fair enough - but you know what I mean. I was talking more about mana base requirements. The other thread (not my chalice less thread) Includes stomps eldrazi decks that want to produce black and/or white mama. This thread seems to have been with the intention of focusing on stomps lists that don't need to produce any colored mana. As such decks that include displacer or strangler main deck seem to belong on the other thread - otherwise this thread will just seem as a duplicate to the other thread.


Also I argue that chalice/no chalice is more than just an idea, it changes the structure of the deck and what the deck wants to do. For example in the midrange deck the reshaper is arguably more important part of the deck than it is in chalice builds

MD.Ghost
01-14-2016, 10:29 AM
Devoid is a color ?


Yes in the case that it needs more than "Cavern" to get the Displacer/Strangler etc run smooth enough in a deck without Brainstorm etc. It is the same problem we can't say "2 Urborg Main and we can talk about Toxic Deluge at Side".

This is why i mentioned that i see the "colorless" list (this Thread) or list with a color and all the "upsides" (nice Sideboard techs). The big question here is; Are all the "Upsides" really needed if you just can run the (and i like the core from Ralf) colorless stompy shell because it can be fast as hell (Mimic with 4/4 and 5/5 friends) and can use All is Dust (which is the real deal here). Otherwise i still think, a White-Splash Shell with Stoneforge, Manadenial (Wastelands, Moxes, Crucible) should work also fine enough - but this should discussed in the other Thread :tongue:

------------
Blood Moon - only a few decks play it, sure Miracle will sometimes (more in the future) have it at Side - but i don't think we should run away from it. Ok i also have one (more for fun^^) Waste at the build here, but you can still cast Endless One and other Dudes under Moon and can react with Sideboard Cards (Bomb) or steal it with Seer, ramp fast into Karn (one of the reasons i think he should be also at Side) etc. - if Moon would be the nightmare no one should play Shardless, Lands etc. - or in the case of Eldrazi: Try a color-version of this deck, as i mentioned a build with White (and Plains and Mox etc.) will be prepared for any Moon.stuff.

chalice
01-14-2016, 10:42 AM
I think that for lists that include chalice and trinisphere, it's very important to look all the way back to 2007 and understand what made dragon stompy such a good deck to begin with. The core strength of the deck was that all its lock pieces (chalice of the void, trinisphere, blood moon, magus of the moon) could be played turn one, because of 4 chrome mox and 4 simian spirit guide. A turn one trinisphere can't be dazed or spell pierced (only forced). Then you get two more turns to develop your board and attack uninhibited before they have enough mana to abrupt decay your trinisphere (or somthing similar). If you can't chalice turn one, they're going to play delver, top, or deathrite shaman on their first turn.

Ralf
01-14-2016, 11:10 AM
Yes in the case that it needs more than "Cavern" to get the Displacer/Strangler etc run smooth enough in a deck without Brainstorm etc. It is the same problem we can't say "2 Urborg Main and we can talk about Toxic Deluge at Side".


I was just "gently" trolling.

The first build I have proposed is viable. It has been tested (almost 100 games so far).

When I am "deck building", I always try to find the best solution to "fit" the meta.

Any land denial strategy is an issue and has to be treated as such.
As a consequence, I'm proposing a different manabase which should diminish/erase the issue.

We cannot say "we will live with THAT problem" because such & such card coming from the side can potentially overcome it.
There is some land denial strategy in a lot of decks/sideboards:
- Miracle (Blood Moon)
- Show & Tell (Blood Moon)
- Aggro loam
- Lands
Etc...

Those strategies are good to very good against MUD for example.
And I don't want to lose most of my G1 to some of these decks if I can find a proper way to fix it.

Even if the curve is somewhat lower to MUD's one with this deck, I think Wizard gives us the tool to fight back with the new colorless basic land.

There is only one question left:
Will we lose that much velocity just by electing a more stable manabase that all the previous tested MU would become negative ?

Without any further tests, I dunno.

The cloudpost manabase, itself, does not always provide velocity (you need 2 posts on the battlefield).
And with the new build you still have access to 8 sol lands (Tomb + temple) + 3 vesuva.

I'm glad some are interested in this deck so let's share further discoveries.

For the time being, I can tell I'm pretty convinced this archetype will make a "bang" on the Legacy establishment.
A small or a big one will only be a matter of how much efforts, we (as a community) push ourselves into testing and testing and testing again.

MGB
01-14-2016, 03:33 PM
Ralf: Wastes over Wasteland?? I know you are trying to get around Blood Moon, but Wasteland is just too good not to play in this deck.

Also, I've found Eldrazi Mimic to be very subpar in testing. Occasionally it will copy something big but most of the time it is a vanilla 2/1 which is just not good enough for Legacy, even at reduced cost.

I've also found that Revoker and Sword/Jitte are too good to be kept in the sideboard. I'd play at least 3-4 revoker MD even though it's not an Eldrazi, and at least 1 SoFi / 1 Jitte md.

gkraigher
01-14-2016, 11:48 PM
Any deck with this many Sol Lands and 4 Cavern of Souls needs to be playing 1 Nether Void main.

Ralf
01-15-2016, 04:48 AM
Ralf: Wastes over Wasteland?? I know you are trying to get around Blood Moon, but Wasteland is just too good not to play in this deck.

Also, I've found Eldrazi Mimic to be very subpar in testing. Occasionally it will copy something big but most of the time it is a vanilla 2/1 which is just not good enough for Legacy, even at reduced cost.

I've also found that Revoker and Sword/Jitte are too good to be kept in the sideboard. I'd play at least 3-4 revoker MD even though it's not an Eldrazi, and at least 1 SoFi / 1 Jitte md.


@ MGB: We all know how Wasteland can be good.

The problem I have with wasteland is that, except the occasional free wins it would buy you sometimes, it has nothing else to offer to the deck's core strategy:

- We don't play cheap & very efficient threats such as Tarmo or Delver
- We need to go "big" to play our most efficient spells, which is nonbo with wasteland because you are wasting a land drop without advancing your gameplan
- We don't play "mana rocks/accel" such as other stompy deck
- We are already going over the top of tricolor decks without them (from testing)

Actually, I fear that playing wasteland pushes you too much in the stompy/MUD/stax territory and my feeling is that this strategy might work sometimes but would in a long term perspective just reveal to be more detrimental to the deck than the other way round.
I might be proven wrong, here; just my gut feeling...


@ MGB: about Mimic.

Well, I was surprised by the card. Sure it is sometimes a vanilla 2/1. But in an aggro shell with 20/24 creatures, it has to be dealt with.
From our testing, this little guy is mandatory. Your opponent cannot leave it alive because he is a true threat.

Actually he embodies the true aggro aspect of the deck. If your opponent deals with your bigger creatures, fine, he will nonetheless take a good swing from Mimic.
Mimic transforming into a 4/4, 5/5 is no joke; add a smasher into the party, you are potentially swinging for 10.

I would even say that it will help you win some races you would have never thought of.


@ Thread:

I have already said that I believe this deck to be treated / developped as a pure aggro deck.
After quite a good amount of tests, I'm pretty sure this is the right way to push this deck.

If you ask me, this deck is closer to what "Merfolk" has to offer than to any stompy/MUD list.
But unlike Merfolk, you don't need to overextend. Every creature you have is a fuc... monster itself.


The list is still raw. There is room for improvments (and I'm not denying that).
Revoker MD might be a good call but it has to be tested.
Equipments also have to be tested. We might end up putting 2 Jitte MD (like Merfolk is doing sometimes).

For now, everyone might be right, there is not only one "true" list and every idea has to be explored.

Keep testing !

MD.Ghost
01-15-2016, 05:44 AM
Any deck with this many Sol Lands and 4 Cavern of Souls needs to be playing 1 Nether Void main.

Not if the Manabase will not allow any Spell like this...you can only Play Nether Void with a real (and that not count for Cavern itself) black Splash which will need more than a pair of Urborg etc. - the idea can be good, but i don't see it in this Thread "Eldrazi Stompy" because this shell will be "colorless".

-------------

I support Ralfs view:

I still like Wastelands, but i only see it in conjunction with Mox+Crucible which can work with Eldrazi (i still test it!) but will lead to another deck shell, which will also supports one or two color splashes. Quick Note: Wasteland+Manadenial will improve any "Mirror" (or MUD, 12Post etc.) along all the other colorfull-dual-decks, so it is still ok to talk about it in conjunction with Eldrazi. - but after all you can't have it all in one deck or you will get a very luck baesd pile of cards. Feel free to discuss the ideas in all the other Eldrazi Threads.

Mimic - Ralf is right here, it looks weak but can be a real beast if you want to close the game AND it will work with all the Eldrazi Lands (and Revoker not!). You can easily drop him Turn 1 and follow up with Endless One (which is the reason i like him too) or even better with "our Clique" at Turn 2! - both wil be 4/4 and you have enough other Creatures to follow up. Ralfs talk about Aggro and that is it - you can overrun your opponent in a rush, but only with Mimic as an early threat.

Revoker - if you find space for it, you have to cut Mimic - both plans can work, Revoker will act as a "Hatebear" but will only profit from 4 Tombs (Mimic also get 4 Temple and 2 Eye of Ugin!) for a fast Deployment - and - most of the time he isn't the best attacker because you want him to stay alive... lose speed etc. I still like Revoker at Side, because he works fine against Top, LED, Sneak Attack etc. but i don't think he is needed at main (feel free to test it!).

Equipments - i don't see it, first off without stoneforge (see my stoneforge-eldrazi-list at BW Thread) it is very random to get them and it will also need space which will result in the cutt of some creatures which will lead to less "Aggro", less tempo (Equipment is also clunky with Eldrazi-Lands!) and are open to counter (unless all the Eldrazi with Cavern backup). For TNN you still have Smasher and All is Dust (8 slots in my latest list!). As i said, All is Dust is the real deal if you build a colorless list, unless MUD you can support it with all the Eldrazi-Lands too.

The reason i like Karn as a Walkerpair at Side is that he can also kill colorless permanents, which will be super important if you face other Eldrazi, MUD-Stuff (Wurmcoil Engine will trump all your guys!), 12 Post etc. - the same is true for Sneak&Show but with this in mind i suggest you to simply try a number of Duplicants as removal. Sure it is no eldrazi but 6 mana will still be ok enough and you can also protect him with Cavern!

Ralf
01-15-2016, 06:30 AM
The reason i like Karn as a Walkerpair at Side is that he can also kill colorless permanents, which will be super important if you face other Eldrazi, MUD-Stuff (Wurmcoil Engine will trump all your guys!), 12 Post etc. - the same is true for Sneak&Show but with this in mind i suggest you to simply try a number of Duplicants as removal. Sure it is no eldrazi but 6 mana will still be ok enough and you can also protect him with Cavern!

Annihilator (4 with Butcher) is like "Karn" and you can make it uncounterable with cavern.

You are definitely right about MUD, Turbo Eldrazi etc... Wasteland shines here.

S&T is awkardly a positive MU G1. Displacer & Endbringer are very good at keeping huge demons @ bay.

Well everything has to be tested.

hofzge
01-15-2016, 10:28 AM
I like being disruptive much more than Ralf and so I would play something along the lines of:

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Cavern of Souls
3x City of Traitors
3x Eye of Ugin
4x Wasteland
2x Sea Gate Wreckage

4x Mox Diamond
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Trinisphere
3x Warping Wail

3x Endless One
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Reality Smasher
2x Endbringer

Sideboard:

1x All Is Dust
1x Cursed Totem
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Tsabo's Web
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Warping Wail


This deck should be well positioned against combo decks.
I am quite unsure of what is good in a mirror or against a MUD deck outside of Equipment... maybe we should think about that too!

adrieng
01-15-2016, 10:39 AM
I have started testing this deck, and I can say that it seems very well positionned. Here is my list :
My manabase is 30 land and i think it should be the right number, I don't like mox diamond here and mishra and maze are very good here with urborg.
You have a good late game against miracle thanks to ugin. There is really no reason not to play 4 ugin even with the fact that is a legend, that's the best land of the deck.
All is dust is good at resetting stuff while you stalled with maze or creatures. Ratchet bomb is better i think that the 1C new card. It can be casted turn one and can answer stuff with higher casting cost (blood moon, TNN Entreats tokens)




4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Maze of Ith
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva

4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Endbringer

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

3 Ratchet Bomb
4 All Is Dust


SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
SB: 4 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 4 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt

Redkid43
01-16-2016, 02:16 PM
It's been sometime since I've drafted a deck so I may be a bit rusty here...

What I've noticed about the manabases is that we are weak to Wasteland and Blood Moon, however there are decks that coexist with them that are fully non basic, so possibly we can be as well. Urborg and Eye is too good to pass up, especially with a deck that can support 12 (!!!) Sol lands between Temple, City, and Tomb. The Post base seems enticing, but that's 8 spots to fill and I'd rather use those 8 for Eye and Urborg because it is a consistent source of 3 mana...Cloudpost maybe a touch too slow here, but the upside is that we can go huge with them. We are not a ramp control deck like 12Post is, we are aggro control with Prison effects, so consistent fast mana is better, IMO. The tempo loss from the Posts could be big.

The other problem is finding an effective moon effect. We need our lands more so that Dragon Stompy, since they can opporate under Blood Moon--Red is out. White gives us Suppression field and access to things like Displacer, but Field automatically makes Eye and Displacer bad, despite being able to crush fetches and things like Wasteland, Top, etc. iI considered blue for Arcane Laboratory and perhaps In the Eye of Chaos, but that was quickly binned.

Revoker seems like a good fit to apply an early threat and stop nonsense like Wasteland.

Straight colorless is the way to go. We have on curve creatures that are big and hard to deal with, and all of them are able to come way early thanks for 12 sols and essentially Mishra's Workshop. We can safely play Chalice at 1, perhaps more, good card generation with Matter Reshaper, and all of our threats are Cavern of Souls-able.

My first draft:
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Cavern of Souls

4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Though-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Oblivion Sower
1 ? (Maybe a Titan)

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
4 Trinisphere

4 Warping Wail

Cyborg
01-16-2016, 08:00 PM
Revoker seems like a good fit to apply an early threat and stop nonsense like Wasteland.
Revoker can only name nonland cards ;_;
That said we could always not run a full playset of urborg and run like 2 wastes or something

Redkid43
01-16-2016, 08:57 PM
Oh yes...I can read cards. Make sure you do as well, kiddies...

Playing more basics to dodge Moon and Wasteland, could be awesome.

hofzge
01-18-2016, 04:14 AM
How about a anti Moon Sideboard?


[Land (24)]
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
3x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
2x Sea Gate Wreckage
4x Wasteland

[Instant (3)]
3x Warping Wail

[Creature (21)]
2x Endbringer
3x Endless One
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer

[Artifacts(12)]
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
4x Trinisphere

[Sideboard (15)]
1x All Is Dust
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Ratchet Bomb
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Warping Wail


As Blood Moon is one of the most problematic cards I would dedicate at least 3 slots to it and even All is Dust can be sideboarded (as a very suboptimal card).

The MUD Stax decks run 4 Ratchet Bombs maindeck to handle fast permanents, so 3 sideboard bomb should be ok.
I don't know if there are better/faster solutions to Blood Moon in the face of Painter's Servant and Pyroblasts.

Echelon
01-18-2016, 05:19 AM
On the face of it, the idea of not being able to cast colorless cards b/c there's a Bloodmoon on the field is hilarious.

Even though I like the idea of colorless mana as a "sixth color", given the history of colorless cards and generic mana, not being able to cast colorless cards on Mountains alone feels somewhat off.

bruizar
01-18-2016, 06:16 AM
I wouldn't care about Blood Moon. It isn't represented in enough decks to care about it imo. If you want to deal with blood moon, just play some Grim Monoliths or something. Replace those Mox Diamonds since Mox Diamond can't add colorless mana and you don't want to be pitching lands in a deck with expensive beaters. Also, I don't see why you would play Endless One. You can get X/X for X mana + an ability. Just design the curve of the deck properly so you don't have to play vanilla beaters

hofzge
01-18-2016, 07:45 AM
We will just have to live with it and either play something like 6 Wastes main or sideboard some or have some colorless answer to Blood Moon like Ratchet Bomb, Powder Keg, Nevinnyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone or All is Dust.

bruizar
01-18-2016, 08:02 AM
Solemn Simulacrum provides access to 1-2 Wastes.

HdH_Cthulhu
01-18-2016, 10:29 AM
That seems terrible. I rather run some talisman. Easy turn 1 acceleration + All the color/colorless fixing.

bruizar
01-18-2016, 10:54 AM
That seems terrible. I rather run some talisman. Easy turn 1 acceleration + All the color/colorless fixing.

I mentioned Solemn Simulacrum for the fact that it affects basic lands and we're not really used to fetching up colorless basic lands yet, so its not an obvious solution. Talismans looks a lot better, especially for colored sideboard cards.

hofzge
01-18-2016, 11:17 AM
This is the other way of solving this problem:


[Land (24)]
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
3x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Sea Gate Wreckage
4x Wasteland
1x Wastes

[Instant (3)]
3x Warping Wail

[Creature (21)]
2x Endbringer
3x Endless One
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer

[Artifact (12)]
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
4x Trinisphere

[Sideboard (15)]
1x All Is Dust
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Grafdigger's Cage
4x Talisman of Dominance
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Warping Wail


Now with 100% more Wastes ;) Use at your own risk!

bruizar
01-18-2016, 02:59 PM
This is my first draft. Very speculative since I don't know whether or not its good at all.


Lands [21]
4 Bayou
3 Llanowar Wastes
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
——————————————————

Spells [21]
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Warping Wail
5 Thoughtseize / Duress / IoK
3 Abrupt Decay

1 Roiling Spoil
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Trinisphere
——————————————————
[creature 15]
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 World Breaker
——————————————————
3 Flex slots


It has enough discard as well as lodestone/trinisphere to make combo a good matchup. It has bigger beaters than normal decks. It has access to spot removal and a few sweepers and gets to dig efficiently with stirrings.

I opt for World Breaker on the top end of the curve because it deals with problem permanents well (although not with Blood Moon in this particular build). With the amount of pressure on the hand, I think Reality Smasher really shines. It would be great if I could find place for Cavern of Souls without losing the colored spells.

hofzge
01-19-2016, 05:10 AM
This is my first draft. Very speculative since I don't know whether or not its good at all.


Lands [21]
4 Bayou
3 Llanowar Wastes
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
——————————————————

Spells [21]
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Warping Wail
5 Thoughtseize / Duress / IoK
3 Abrupt Decay

1 Roiling Spoil
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Trinisphere
——————————————————
[creature 15]
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 World Breaker
——————————————————
3 Flex slots


It has enough discard as well as lodestone/trinisphere to make combo a good matchup. It has bigger beaters than normal decks. It has access to spot removal and a few sweepers and gets to dig efficiently with stirrings.

I opt for World Breaker on the top end of the curve because it deals with problem permanents well (although not with Blood Moon in this particular build). With the amount of pressure on the hand, I think Reality Smasher really shines. It would be great if I could find place for Cavern of Souls without losing the colored spells.

You have quite a few nombos in your deck:

4 Lodestone Golem + 4 Ancient Stirrings, 3 Warping Wail, 5 Thoughtseize / Duress / IoK, 3 Abrupt Decay, 1 Roiling Spoil, 1 Toxic Deluge, 4 Trinisphere, 4 Thought-Knot Seer, 4 Reality Smasher, 3 World Breaker
=> You hinder yourself from playing your spells / Leave out the Lodestone Golems

4 Trinisphere + 4 Ancient Stirrings, 5 Thoughtseize / Duress / IoK
=> Trinisphere is not so hot with your own 1 Mana spells / Agina you hinder yourself from casting your spells

3 Eye of Ugin + 4 Lodestone Golem, 4 Ancient Stirrings, 3 Warping Wail, 5 Thoughtseize / Duress / IoK, 3 Abrupt Decay, 1 Roiling Spoil, 1 Toxic Deluge, 4 Trinisphere
=> You have many spells that Eye of Ugin provides no Mana for / It may be greedy to play 3 of them if they make neither :1: nor :g: nor :b:

Same thing for 4 Ancient Tomb, 3 City of Traitors, 4 Eldrazi Temple + 4 Ancient Stirrings, 5 Thoughtseize / Duress / IoK, 3 Abrupt Decay, 1 Roiling Spoil, 1 Toxic Deluge
=> I think you will have some problems casting your colored spells, especially the Roiling Spoils and Abrupt Decays

Manroe
01-21-2016, 01:50 AM
I really want to give this a shot. Is there any way to make this deck and run blood moon in the main? I'm having a hard time figuring a list or. I definitely want to do a chalice build.

hofzge
01-21-2016, 02:17 AM
Blood Moon has 0 synergy with cards that need colorless mana, in fact it is one of the worst enemies of this deck (at least of you play all the Eldrazi with colorless requirements).

Dice_Box
01-21-2016, 03:56 AM
Just remember 3sphere and Eye do not a combo make.

bruizar
01-21-2016, 04:10 AM
You have quite a few nombos in your deck:

4 Lodestone Golem + 4 Ancient Stirrings, 3 Warping Wail, 5 Thoughtseize / Duress / IoK, 3 Abrupt Decay, 1 Roiling Spoil, 1 Toxic Deluge, 4 Trinisphere, 4 Thought-Knot Seer, 4 Reality Smasher, 3 World Breaker
=> You hinder yourself from playing your spells / Leave out the Lodestone Golems

4 Trinisphere + 4 Ancient Stirrings, 5 Thoughtseize / Duress / IoK
=> Trinisphere is not so hot with your own 1 Mana spells / Agina you hinder yourself from casting your spells

3 Eye of Ugin + 4 Lodestone Golem, 4 Ancient Stirrings, 3 Warping Wail, 5 Thoughtseize / Duress / IoK, 3 Abrupt Decay, 1 Roiling Spoil, 1 Toxic Deluge, 4 Trinisphere
=> You have many spells that Eye of Ugin provides no Mana for / It may be greedy to play 3 of them if they make neither :1: nor :g: nor :b:

Same thing for 4 Ancient Tomb, 3 City of Traitors, 4 Eldrazi Temple + 4 Ancient Stirrings, 5 Thoughtseize / Duress / IoK, 3 Abrupt Decay, 1 Roiling Spoil, 1 Toxic Deluge
=> I think you will have some problems casting your colored spells, especially the Roiling Spoils and Abrupt Decays

Hah my build is pretty bad in hindsight. I really like how they designed the Eldrazis. It seems you can't just throw them into existing artifact shells. I can't believe how bad my build was :-)

hofzge
01-21-2016, 10:39 AM
Well I think you can throw them into artifact shells, but the thing you need to pay attention to is the colorless mana and the acceleration that the virtual 16 sol lands (Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple) give you - all spells more or less cost 1/2 of what is printed on them.

This makes all evenly costed Eldrazis even more appealing (Eldrazi Mimic, Thought-Knot Seer, Endbringer) and make the Endless One a very special case, as he is 2/2 for each land drop (2/2, 4/4, 6/6 etc.).

The thing the Eldrazi sorely lack is interaction (except Thought-Knot Seer which is just bonkers in any regard) and thus the Stompy shell, that works well with the 8 colorless Sols lands and Mox Diamond (and doesn't work so well with Chrome Mox and colorless/devoid Eldrazi).

You can also have this interaction with black discard and the Urborg/Eye of Ugin interaction, which is the what the black Eldrazi decks are based on.

Stuart
01-24-2016, 01:19 AM
I asked this in the MUD thread, and would like to hear thoughts from people here, too. What are the benefits of this deck over traditional MUD? I've neither played nor seen this deck in action, but I'm hearing a lot of people speculate this will be a tier 1 deck while MUD won't.

The upsides and downsides I've thought of are:
- Pro: possibly better mana base
- Pro: not as vulnerable to artifact removal
- Pro: Thought-Knot Seer lets you directly attack the opponent's hand
- Con: you miss all the artifact synergies (Forgemaster, Lodestone, Metalworker)
- Con: fewer Stax effects (assuming you don't run Lodestone)
- Con: weaker bombs/toolbox cards (compared to Wurmcoil, Emperion, Blightsteel, and Ugin)(and assuming you don't run Emrakul, Ulamog, etc)
- Con: loses to Blood Moon, unless you add Wastes

Admittedly, I'm biased and don't think this deck looks better than MUD. However, the new cards are cool and I'd love for someone to sell me on Eldrazi Stompy.

bruizar
01-24-2016, 03:47 AM
I don't know man, I think turn 1 Urborg Thoughtseize into turn 2 Eye of Ugin Thought-Knot Seer is pretty darn good.

adrieng
01-24-2016, 03:55 AM
I don't know man, I think turn 1 Urborg Thoughtseize into turn 2 Eye of Ugin Thought-Knot Seer is pretty darn good.
This is not possible

bruizar
01-24-2016, 04:05 AM
This is not possible

Ugh you're right. I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around building decks with <>.

bruizar
01-24-2016, 07:53 AM
Ok, yet another try.. Lets hope i wont fumble again :)

4 Urza's incubator
4 Heartless summoning

4 Ancient tomb
3 City of traitors
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland

4 Conduit of Ruin
4 oblivion sower
4 thought-knot seer
2 kozilek, the great distortion
3 ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
4 blight herder
4 chalice of the void
4 trinisphere
2 All is Dust
1 Void Winnower

-2 cards

This cost reduction version is borrowed from heartless eldrazi. Urzas incubator is an extra cost reducer we get to play.

You hope to play conduit of ruin for almost free and immediately chain him into something else thats good.

mistercakes
01-24-2016, 09:52 AM
Ok, yet another try.. Lets hope i wont fumble again :)

4 Urzas incubator
4 Heartless summoning

4 Ancient tomb
3 City of traitors
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland

4 Conduit of Ruin
4 oblivion sower
4 thought knot seer
2 kozilek the great distortion
3 ulamog the ceaseless hunger
4 blightherder
4 chalice of the void
4 trinisphere
2 All is Dust
1 Void Winnower

-2 cards

This cost reduction version is borrowed from heartless eldrazi. Urzas incubator is an extra cost reducer we get to play.

You hope to play conduit of ruin for almost free and immediately chain him into something else thats good.

Eye of ugin, 1 cost reducers -> 2 mana conduit inti 4 mana kozilek/ulamog.

I'd go ahead and cut the blight herders here. consider the haste guy instead. he can at least win games out of nowhere, and blight herder tokens are dead to heartless. I would also just try running dismember over all is dust.

bruizar
01-24-2016, 10:42 AM
I'd go ahead and cut the blight herders here. consider the haste guy instead. he can at least win games out of nowhere, and blight herder tokens are dead to heartless. I would also just try running dismember over all is dust.

Good points. Reality Smasher might be better, but I am a bit hesitant to couple him with Heartless Summoning because the -1/-1 hurts when applied to smaller creatures. Perhaps I should just replace it with colorless spells (Wail / Spatial Contortion). Also I have to correct myself: Conduit of Ruin cost reduction only applies to the first creature cast.

Question: How does Trinisphere interact with the cost reducers?

mistercakes
01-24-2016, 10:53 AM
Good points. Reality Smasher might be better, but I am a bit hesitant to couple him with Heartless Summoning because the -1/-1 hurts when applied to smaller creatures. Perhaps I should just replace it with colorless spells (Wail / Spatial Contortion). Also I have to correct myself: Conduit of Ruin cost reduction only applies to the first creature cast.

Question: How does Trinisphere interact with the cost reducers?

trinisphere will always check at the end, 3 minimum cost for each spell.

Bobmans
01-24-2016, 01:51 PM
Question: How does Trinisphere interact with the cost reducers?

To sum it up. The CMC of the card is checked. Then taxing effects like Thalia are added. Then effects are substracted. That amount is then checked and modified to 3 if < 3.

civet five
01-24-2016, 03:07 PM
To sum it up. The CMC of the card is checked. Then taxing effects like Thalia are added. Then effects are substracted. That amount is then checked and modified to 3 if < 3.

The order is correct, but I don't think there's an initial check as you describe. When a spell is cast, taxing effects are added in, reducers are subtracted, then minimum cast modifiers like 3Sphere check and modify.

shadowgripper
01-24-2016, 05:33 PM
Trinisphere is easy to calculate, I'll teach you a simple rule: "You cannot avoid paying less than 3 mana for any spell you cast."

That's it. There's no way to cheat the system. Period. Play for free? Nope, you have to spend at least 3 mana. Cast from suspend? Doesn't matter spend 3 mana. Thalia + Wingmare + Heartless Summoning + all this other crap, are you spending at least 3 mana to cast it? No cheating, can't pay less sorry.

Trinisphere you only check or care about after everything else is said and done. It's the final word of "You must spend at least 3 mana on casting spells."

Of course, all of this can be avoided if you just tap the sphere ;)

EDIT: Here is what I'm working with:

4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Blight Herder
4 Oblivion Sower
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Grim Monolith
4 Warping Wail
4 Trinisphere

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
2 Eye of Ugin
3 Sea Gate Wreckage

//Sideboard
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Null Rod
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

Begle1
01-25-2016, 12:06 AM
Trinisphere is easy to calculate, I'll teach you a simple rule: "You cannot avoid paying less than 3 mana for any spell you cast."

That's it. There's no way to cheat the system. Period. Play for free? Nope, you have to spend at least 3 mana. Cast from suspend? Doesn't matter spend 3 mana. Thalia + Wingmare + Heartless Summoning + all this other crap, are you spending at least 3 mana to cast it? No cheating, can't pay less sorry.

Trinisphere you only check or care about after everything else is said and done. It's the final word of "You must spend at least 3 mana on casting spells."


Yet Tasigur still only costs one black mana and five cards from the graveyard.

Convoke gets around it too... In one case the cards in the graveyard "make" the mana and in the other the creatures do. It's weird.

Darkenslight
01-25-2016, 09:05 AM
Yet Tasigur still only costs one black mana and five cards from the graveyard.

Convoke gets around it too... In one case the cards in the graveyard "make" the mana and in the other the creatures do. It's weird.

That's because they're coded as an alternate way to pay mana, rather than actual mana reductions. Which is why casting a Tasigur for B under the 3Ball is possible.

gkraigher
01-25-2016, 10:21 AM
I played a list in the classic event at StarCity Games Atlanta, I was 4-3, losing the last match cost me 9th place.

I think the eldrazi have a real chance in Legacy. I took a couple of bad lines early with the deck, becuase some of the interations are odd. My list was also not correct.

One card you should consider for the list is Deathrite Shaman. Even if you don't have fetches yourself, it still can use your opponents for ramp and then you have more things to process.

hofzge
01-25-2016, 10:29 AM
One card you should consider for the list is Deathrite Shaman. Even if you don't have fetches yourself, it still can use your opponents for ramp and then you have more things to process.

I think this is not the thread for this card, as the stompy list will probably not run any process cards, as there are just no synergies with the rest of the cards. Deathrite Shaman might fit into the black lists, but for a colorless list he is not very suitable.

shadowgripper
01-25-2016, 12:45 PM
...as the stompy list will probably not run any process cards, as there are just no synergies with the rest of the cards.

What? You can safely run maximum number of Blight Herders and be able to process with them without having to use cards like Relic of Progenitus. For example, in my list I have 4 Warping Wail, 4 Thought-Know Seer, and 4 Oblivion Sower. Yes, you can choose not to cast your herder before playing that sower in your hand, it does come up and it will make your herder that much stronger. That's 12 cards in my list that exile. Combine that with the chance of your opponent helping you out with their own DRS or FoW, and you're good to go. At the worst, you are playing a slightly overcosted Goyf (3 mana, 4/5), which still puts in work.

MGB
01-25-2016, 04:45 PM
Trinisphere is easy to calculate, I'll teach you a simple rule: "You cannot avoid paying less than 3 mana for any spell you cast."

That's it. There's no way to cheat the system. Period. Play for free? Nope, you have to spend at least 3 mana. Cast from suspend? Doesn't matter spend 3 mana. Thalia + Wingmare + Heartless Summoning + all this other crap, are you spending at least 3 mana to cast it? No cheating, can't pay less sorry.

Trinisphere you only check or care about after everything else is said and done. It's the final word of "You must spend at least 3 mana on casting spells."


One thing to remember that is not intuitive -

you can use Delve to pay Trinisphere tax, which makes it "look" as if you are paying less than 3 mana for a spell just because most people don't automatically equate a Delve exiling to {1}.

hofzge
01-26-2016, 02:37 AM
What? You can safely run maximum number of Blight Herders and be able to process with them without having to use cards like Relic of Progenitus. For example, in my list I have 4 Warping Wail, 4 Thought-Know Seer, and 4 Oblivion Sower. Yes, you can choose not to cast your herder before playing that sower in your hand, it does come up and it will make your herder that much stronger. That's 12 cards in my list that exile. Combine that with the chance of your opponent helping you out with their own DRS or FoW, and you're good to go. At the worst, you are playing a slightly overcosted Goyf (3 mana, 4/5), which still puts in work.

That may be true, but this necessitates other things: as you exile lands and want to play them, you WILL play black, as fetchlands are worthless to a colorless build and you need lands you can fetch. Also you probably want Urborg, just in case.
This makes a totally different deck - one that is close to the Modern base-black deck of Eldrazi that does in fact play all processors and now will get better exilers (albeit neither Seer nor Wail can exile land).

This discussion is not needed, as you talk about a different deck that plays at least 16-20 different cards from a colorless Stompy build.

Pdingo
01-26-2016, 12:35 PM
Here is my List:

4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Warping Wail (damn too good)
2 Endbringer
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Reality Smasher
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Simian Spirit Guide ( Better than Mox, you want always T1 Chalice or Trini)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth ( Nice with eye)
3 Lodestone Golem (I like the Golem still in this list because of his body:)

SB: 2 All Is Dust
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Mind Stone
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Warping Wail

Greets

hofzge
01-27-2016, 04:22 AM
Pdingo and I have talked a lot about it and i really like his list with the exception of the Spirit Guides. I would play one less land if I were to play Spirit Guides instead of Mox Diamonds.

I would do this:

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
4x Wasteland
1x Wastes

2x Warping Wail

3x Endbringer
3x Lodestone Golem
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
4x Trinisphere

Sideboard (15)

1x All Is Dust
1x Cursed Totem
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Grafdigger's Cage
4x Mind Stone
1x Null Rod
1x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Warping Wail


It's not even funny that over the years this many hateful artifacts have been printed. I think after Sideboard e.g. against most combo decks we should be setup up in an ok way (with the exception of Show and Tell - which is in a way naturally resistant to Trinisphere).

Delvis
01-27-2016, 08:40 AM
I saw this deck last night, and it seems really sweet. It's like MUD but a little lower to the ground, a little more aggressive, a little more disruptive.

One thing though, the guy I saw playing it just scooped to Blood Moon. Considering how weak this deck is to that card in particular, is it possible some maindeck or sideboard slots should be dedicated to something like Oblivion Stone or Ratchet Bomb?

Edit: I saw some people thinking Talismans might be the answer. If you want 2cc mana rocks and you don't need the colored mana, why not Mind Stone or Grim Monolith?

shadowgripper
01-27-2016, 11:03 AM
Idk why you would scoop to blood moon. You can still cast all but twelve cards (seer, smasher, wail). Casting a Blight Herder and/or Grim Monolith gives access to colorless. Sower will also properly ramp mana since fetches become Mountains.

MD.Ghost
01-28-2016, 10:01 AM
Besides the W-Build with Stoneforge and (more important) Eldrazi Displacer, i still test the "colorless" Stompy Shell.

Currently i run with:

Land (24)
4x Ancient Tomb
3x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
4x Glimmerpost
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vesuva

Sorcery (3)
3x All Is Dust

Creature (21)
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
3x Endless One
3x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Endbringer

Instant (4)
4x Warping Wail

Artifact (9)
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinisphere
2x Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard (15)
3x Ratchet Bomb
3x Faerie Macabre
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Duplicant
2x Maze of Ith
2x Wastes

It covers most meta choices/decks around and stuff like "GG vs Moon". Finally moved away from Mimic, because i liked Revokers at Main (it is also a fast Creature for turn 1-2), togther with Jitte, Endless One and Reshaper you have enough stuff if the mana matters (Wastelands etc.).

Pdingo
01-28-2016, 04:43 PM
Hei Guys

I updated my list:

Now i cut the urborg because eye+ urborb don't work most of time.
Also important i cut a Eye. 3 eyes are to much i think.
I added 1 elvish spirit guide for more speed.

4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Warping Wail
2 Endbringer
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Reality Smasher
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
3 Lodestone Golem
1 Wastes
1 Elvish Spirit Guide

SB: 2 All Is Dust
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Mind Stone
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Warping Wail

MD.Ghost
01-29-2016, 04:16 AM
Now i cut the urborg because eye+ urborb don't work most of time.


@Pdingo: Seems you build a really "All in" deck - sure speed matters a lot, but you will also get a lot of worst topdecks.

Your number of Eye of Ugin feels right, 2 is enough, because you only want 1 in play and it is still not so good as Eldrazi Temple, because you can't spam dudes under a trinisphere and Eye will not produce any mana...this is the reason i still think Urborg is right as additional support. Urborg + Eye = 4 Mana and the other good news are, that Ancient Tomb can be used as a swamp to reduce the huge amount of life lose over a game.

--------

After a lot of test runs yesterday i also made a couple of changes (see build above).

+1 All is Dust Main, as i mentioned before, Spell is bonkers with all the Eldrazi Lands, 3 is the right number to draw it often enough if needed
-1 Kozilek, liked the idea to tutor a huge titan with Eye of Ugin, but in reality every big eldrazi will decline our starting hands and will be a worst topdeck most of the time, especially if your opponent uses manadenial. If you can cast him it feels like win more, if i can tutor (which means a lot of mana) with Eye of Ugin i can simply play very big Endless Ones, hasty Smashers or Endbringers etc.

Side:
+3 Ratchet Bomb
-3 Portal, both can be slow and Portals-Draw might be better vs Control, but afterall the bomb feels faster and more flexible. Together with 2 Wastes from Side, the Bomb should also cover the "Moon case".
+2 Maze of Ith
-3 Tsabos Web (don't see enough land.decs currently and Maze will help a lot vs aggressive decks (Delver, Infect, etc.) and it will profit from Urborg too!
-1 Kozilek (see above, simply win more OR uncastble most of the time)
+2 Duplicant (this one is under observation, the reason behind him is, that you have a usefull - and sometimes uncounterable - option vs Show&Tell, 12Post, Eldrazi, MUD etc - which means all the decks that also want to go over the top - and can/will outclass our "midrange" Creatures). If he doesn't find enough targets/matchups, i can see a pair of Dismember here with access to Urborg.

nevilshute
01-29-2016, 04:38 AM
So, a friend of mine played a version of this deck last night at our LGS legacy weekly and crushed face going 5-0. He faced nothing but real decks (shardless, miracles, storm, lands, grixis control).

I'm curious to learn a bit more about this deck. I particular I'd like to know how this compares to MUD. Looking at the decklist it looks a lot like MUD but with Eldrazi midrange-value-aggro beaters instead of big robot bombs. But revolving around the turn-1 chalice or another disruptive peace.

First, is this a fair evalution? That this plays the early game a lot like MUD and fundamentally relies on the same kind of bomb-y early game disruption as MUD does? And secondly, if yes, is this deck then better at performing through the pitfalls of inconsistency that keep MUD from being tier 1?

hofzge
01-29-2016, 07:48 AM
So, a friend of mine played a version of this deck last night at our LGS legacy weekly and crushed face going 5-0. He faced nothing but real decks (shardless, miracles, storm, lands, grixis control).

I'm curious to learn a bit more about this deck. I particular I'd like to know how this compares to MUD. Looking at the decklist it looks a lot like MUD but with Eldrazi midrange-value-aggro beaters instead of big robot bombs. But revolving around the turn-1 chalice or another disruptive peace.

First, is this a fair evalution? That this plays the early game a lot like MUD and fundamentally relies on the same kind of bomb-y early game disruption as MUD does? And secondly, if yes, is this deck then better at performing through the pitfalls of inconsistency that keep MUD from being tier 1?

I think the evaluation is fair, but i think the central point is: This deck gets 14-15 actual Sol Lands with Eye and Temple. This in my view is the main difference. playing MUD you have to play a lot of suboptimal cards like Grim Monolith, Metalworker, Postmanabase to just produce mana as explosively as possible and then to get profit you a lot of expensive threats. This leaves you with a deck that is 50% mana and 50% bombs and that is very fragile.

The Eldrazi deck mitigates this weakness by playing way more aggresively and having an all-untapped-lands manabase to disrupt and then play undercosted threats (if I told you there was a 4/4 creature with Thoughtseize stapled to it for 2 Mana you would call me crazy).
Having less bad draws late game (with the exception of the lockpieces) makes the deck compete on eye level with MUD while avoiding some of MUDs inconsistencies.

MUD = more powerful / more disruptable
Eldrazi Stompy = faster / less variance / less disruptible with the exception of Blood Moon

bruizar
01-29-2016, 08:33 AM
What's the optimum number of Eye of Ugins? I need to know how much I need to purchase and since I'm going to try out the expeditions I don't want to buy more than I'll use.

Dice_Box
01-29-2016, 09:07 AM
I think 3. That is what I use in Modern and it is what I would use here too. Having more than one of them in a game where you are not getting Wasted is just dead cards. You can not tap it for mana, you can not do anything with the others you draw.

I am looking at a build with 4x Wasteland, 4x City, 4x Tomb, 4x Temple, 3x Eye, 4x Crystal Vein and a Wastes. Just push the Mana to the limits and see what I can make work. Should be a fun test.
This gives me 19 Sol Lands. Granted a lot of them have limited life spans.

hofzge
01-29-2016, 09:10 AM
I think about 2.5 - Buy 2 or 3 as you like. It has a lot of bad synergies with all artifacts in the deck, but also increases the chance of turn 2 Seer which is one of the best plays of the deck.

I personally would now probably play 2.

jedi_gof
01-29-2016, 09:42 AM
So, a friend of mine played a version of this deck last night at our LGS legacy weekly and crushed face going 5-0. He faced nothing but real decks (shardless, miracles, storm, lands, grixis control).

I'm curious to learn a bit more about this deck. I particular I'd like to know how this compares to MUD. Looking at the decklist it looks a lot like MUD but with Eldrazi midrange-value-aggro beaters instead of big robot bombs. But revolving around the turn-1 chalice or another disruptive peace.

First, is this a fair evalution? That this plays the early game a lot like MUD and fundamentally relies on the same kind of bomb-y early game disruption as MUD does? And secondly, if yes, is this deck then better at performing through the pitfalls of inconsistency that keep MUD from being tier 1?

Yeah I was one of the ones receiving chrushing by eldrazi.
Alot of Tier1s have a hard time with this deck. Its dirty, blazing fast and curves out very aggressively while still packing blowout lock pieces like chalice and sphere.
With, decays , bolts as prime remonval, this deck feeds og midrangey decks like nothinf, and each threat are insane to deal with.
Was thoroughly impressed with it!

Dice_Box
01-29-2016, 12:40 PM
I am goldfishing this right now and I am finding it to my liking. It is mostly hofzge's list straight stolen and slightly modfied. I think I want to test Thorns in the place of the 3Sphere though as it does not conflict with Eye and is far easier with this mana setup to drop turn one. Will see what comes up.

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Crystal Vein
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
4x Wasteland
1x Wastes

2x Warping Wail

3x Endbringer
3x Lodestone Golem
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Grim Monolith
4x Trinisphere

bruizar
01-29-2016, 12:56 PM
How are the matter reshapers? Are they just filler or do they actually serve the deck well? Same question for Endbringers.

Dice_Box
01-29-2016, 01:20 PM
Reshapers help when they flip Lands most of all, helping you accelerate at a good clip. As for the Endbringers, well drawing 3 cards per "turn" is useful.

Just came across something. The speed that you can get Eye active with Monoliths is nuts. I think if you want to play Mana rocks, it is the best choice.

MaximumC
01-29-2016, 01:29 PM
Reshapers help when they flip Lands most of all, helping you accelerate at a good clip. As for the Endbringers, well drawing 3 cards per "turn" is useful.

Just came across something. The speed that you can get Eye active with Monoliths is nuts. I think if you want to play Mana rocks, it is the best choice.

But why bother with the vanilla 3/2 for 3 in the meantime? That's my problem with this card - it's translating 3 mana into maybe another card in hand or in play without doing much in between to justify the delay. Seems like Mind Stone might be even better than this.

Finn
01-29-2016, 01:36 PM
I think you are plum nuts to not have at least one Urborg in your 60. Eye of Ugin and Ancient Tomb both want to masquerade as swamps from time to time. Has it really not earned a spot?

I am goldfishing this right now and I am finding it to my liking. It is mostly hofzge's list straight stolen and slightly modfied. I think I want to test Thorns in the place of the 3Sphere though as it does not conflict with Eye and is far easier with this mana setup to drop turn one. Will see what comes up.

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Crystal Vein
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
4x Wasteland
1x Wastes

2x Warping Wail

3x Endbringer
3x Lodestone Golem
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Grim Monolith
4x Trinisphere

MD.Ghost
01-29-2016, 02:23 PM
I think you are plum nuts to not have at least one Urborg in your 60. Eye of Ugin and Ancient Tomb both want to masquerade as swamps from time to time. Has it really not earned a spot?

See my list above, you are right Urborg should be in the mix for Eye and Tombs (and in my case Sideboard Mazes)

shadowgripper
01-29-2016, 02:26 PM
I'm still curious why people play with Mimic, Reshaper, and Endbringer. Those do not seem impressive at all. Herder, Seer, Smasher, Sower are the 16 best creatures. Sower always blocks goyf. Seer is the best card. Smasher is too hard to kill. And Herder is so impressive that I search for that card with Eye of Ugin more than any other creature. Yes I play Ulamogs, but herder is just so stupid good.

Mimic is gimmicky. I'd rather play real creatures. Each card in our 60 should be self-sufficient and hold it's own.
Reshaper is a 3/2 that doesn't always work; it doesn't do anything spectacular. It does not present a fast clock, nor does it influence their board state. Herder is always a 4/5 and likely bigger.
Endbringer is clunky as it does not have haste. Sower is much better as it provides value regardless of FoW, gives exile food, and sometimes helps us reach Eye of Ugin mana.

4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Blight Herder
4 Oblivion Sower
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Grim Monolith
4 Warping Wail
4 Trinisphere

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Eye of Ugin

//Sideboard
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Null Rod
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 All Is Dust
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

Wild_Island_Appeared
01-29-2016, 03:27 PM
My take on Eldrazi Stompy, a little more prison oriented than most of the versions I've seen posted already.


Lands (25)
4x [ancient tomb]
4x [city of traitors]
4x [eldrazi temple]
4x [wasteland]
4x [ghost quarter]
2x [eye of ugin]
2x [urborg, tomb of yawgmoth]
1x [seagate wreckage]

Creatures (20)
4x [thought-knot seer]
4x [reality smasher]
4x [lodestone golem]
4x [matter reshaper]
4x [phyrexian revoker]

Hate (15)
4x [chalice of the void]
4x [trinisphere]
4x [mox diamond]
3x [crucible of worlds]

Sideboard (15)
4x [thorn of amethyst]
3x [winter orb]
4x [leyline of the void]
2x [warping wail]
2x [wastes]

shadowgripper
01-29-2016, 03:45 PM
@Wild_Island_Appeared How much testing have you done with this list? I originally tried Lodestone Golem but quickly took him out. He hurts your ability to cast all of your eldrazi and warping wails. We have less prison elements than most prison decks. I would think casting the four prime creatures is not exactly a "prison strategy" as much as a stompy strat (with disruption).

Delvis
01-29-2016, 03:58 PM
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Blight Herder
4 Oblivion Sower
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Grim Monolith
4 Warping Wail
4 Trinisphere

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Eye of Ugin

//Sideboard
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Null Rod
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 All Is Dust
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

I'm really digging this list. I'm going to save this for later testing. I don't know if I'm on board with the full set of Caverns but you're the one sleeving it up.

shadowgripper
01-29-2016, 04:02 PM
I'm really digging this list. I'm going to save this for later testing. I don't know if I'm on board with the full set of Caverns but you're the one sleeving it up.

I was also a bit hesitant on Cavern of Souls, but when I played this at a real event and my opponents who had FoW in their deck growned each time Cavern got played, I knew it was the right way to go. The fact it blanks forces, counterspells and even daze is relevant. Blue decks struggle. ThoughtKnotSeer will resolve and will put them in a very poor situation.

Gheizen64
01-29-2016, 05:00 PM
I'm really digging this list. I'm going to save this for later testing. I don't know if I'm on board with the full set of Caverns but you're the one sleeving it up.

Herder needs a LOT of exilers. With that list, i'd be surprised if herder trigger more than once every ten times or so.

shadowgripper
01-29-2016, 05:01 PM
Herder needs a LOT of exilers. With that list, i'd be surprised if herder trigger more than once every ten times or so.

It triggers 8 times out of 10. I'm not guessing with these numbers. This is from experience.

MGB
01-29-2016, 05:07 PM
And even if it doesn't trigger, a 4/5 for (essentially) 3-4 traditional mana (in terms of land drops) isn't the worst deal.

MGB
01-29-2016, 05:13 PM
I'm still curious why people play with Mimic, Reshaper, and Endbringer. Those do not seem impressive at all. Herder, Seer, Smasher, Sower are the 16 best creatures. Sower always blocks goyf. Seer is the best card. Smasher is too hard to kill. And Herder is so impressive that I search for that card with Eye of Ugin more than any other creature. Yes I play Ulamogs, but herder is just so stupid good.

Mimic is gimmicky. I'd rather play real creatures. Each card in our 60 should be self-sufficient and hold it's own.
Reshaper is a 3/2 that doesn't always work; it doesn't do anything spectacular. It does not present a fast clock, nor does it influence their board state. Herder is always a 4/5 and likely bigger.
Endbringer is clunky as it does not have haste. Sower is much better as it provides value regardless of FoW, gives exile food, and sometimes helps us reach Eye of Ugin mana.


Originally the idea behind Reshaper was simply to generate value a la Kitchen Finks. Truly a midrange strategy which may be too mediocre in Legacy. I primarily like using Reshaper as a cheap body to equip with Jitte/Swords which grants card advantage if removal is used on it.

Endbringer is indeed slow and clunky but it can generate good card / tempo advantage when it gets to untap. That, of course, is the problem - waiting to cast it and then to untap it multiple times. I also like it as a MD answer to Show and Tell->Emrakul, which this deck otherwise lacks. But in testing, it has been too slow in most instances.





4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Blight Herder
4 Oblivion Sower
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Grim Monolith
4 Warping Wail
4 Trinisphere

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Eye of Ugin

//Sideboard
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Null Rod
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 All Is Dust
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

I will update the OP with your (i assume more heavily tested) list.

bruizar
01-29-2016, 05:24 PM
I'm still curious why people play with Mimic, Reshaper, and Endbringer. Those do not seem impressive at all. Herder, Seer, Smasher, Sower are the 16 best creatures. Sower always blocks goyf. Seer is the best card. Smasher is too hard to kill. And Herder is so impressive that I search for that card with Eye of Ugin more than any other creature. Yes I play Ulamogs, but herder is just so stupid good.

Mimic is gimmicky. I'd rather play real creatures. Each card in our 60 should be self-sufficient and hold it's own.
Reshaper is a 3/2 that doesn't always work; it doesn't do anything spectacular. It does not present a fast clock, nor does it influence their board state. Herder is always a 4/5 and likely bigger.
Endbringer is clunky as it does not have haste. Sower is much better as it provides value regardless of FoW, gives exile food, and sometimes helps us reach Eye of Ugin mana.

4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Blight Herder
4 Oblivion Sower
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Grim Monolith
4 Warping Wail
4 Trinisphere

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Eye of Ugin

//Sideboard
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Null Rod
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 All Is Dust
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

This is more similar to the lines I was thinking, except I want to try out a green splash for Sensei's Divining Top, Descendant's Path and sideboard Chokes and more eldrazi bombs over Chalice of the Void (Yes, I know, chalice is the point of stompy decks)

MGB
01-29-2016, 05:30 PM
This is more similar to the lines I was thinking, except I want to try out a green splash for Sensei's Divining Top, Descendant's Path and sideboard Chokes and more eldrazi bombs over Chalice of the Void (Yes, I know, chalice is the point of stompy decks)

If you're going in this direction, you probably want to build a BGx build with Deathrite Shaman and Liliana of the Veil as well. Then you could also play Wasteland Strangler to take advantage of exiled cards with Deathrite Shaman.

Cire
01-29-2016, 05:32 PM
This is more similar to the lines I was thinking, except I want to try out a green splash for Sensei's Divining Top, Descendant's Path and sideboard Chokes and more eldrazi bombs over Chalice of the Void (Yes, I know, chalice is the point of stompy decks)

Come join the madness that the non-stompy deck has become once we started thinking about Path :tongue:

Oxide
01-29-2016, 05:53 PM
What up!

So i dont normally play stompy, but when i saw the spoilers i got tempted, so i pre bought all the eldrazis.

Last night i went to my first tourny and ended up going 5-0 with the following list:

4x Mimic
4x Reshaper
4x Thought knot seer
4x Smasher
3x Endbringer
2x Sower
1x Ulamog

4x Chalice
3x trinisphere
3x Veil
2x Rachet bomb
2x All is dust

4x Wasteland
4x Temple
4x Tomb
4x City
4x Cavern
3x Eye
1x Wastes

Sideboard:

4x thorn of amethyst
3x revoker
2x Graffdiggers
1x veil
1x Jitte
1x All is dust
1x Trinisphere
1x Tsabo web
1x Crucible.

I met the following decks:

Lands 2-1 - seems like and should be a very hard matchup, i got the perfect hand in game 3 tho to seal the deal.
Miracles 2-0
Shardless 2-0
Storm 2-0
Grixis Control 2-0

one thing to also note is that people in my LGS knows how to play legacy, we have a very healthy legacy community, where we can play legacy 2 times a week with around 20+ people everytime.

Over all the deck was just a beast, Miracles, shardless and the other midrange decks cant simply handle your creatures.

Im gonna cut the sowers tho for maybe something like Endless one, i like how this deck can play aggro and still have pieces like chalice and trinisphere.

I know people doubt the mimic, so did i, but i thought fuck it lets give it a go. And jesus..that little guy hurts!

alot can be done to the sideboard, one thing that this deck really needs, and something that no one is this thread have been talking about, is a good answer to delver. thats a part of reason behind the Rachet bombs.

Sorry for the bad english, im tired.

MD.Ghost
01-30-2016, 03:56 AM
one thing that this deck really needs, and something that no one is this thread have been talking about, is a good answer to delver. thats a part of reason behind the Rachet bombs.

Sorry for the bad english, im tired.

Gratz, nice run!

@Delver, as I mentioned I use 2 Maze of Ith and 3 Bombs at Side, should be ok vs Delver and if they Wasteland Maze our other lands are Safe so we are in a good shape any way.

I also have 2 Jitte and 3 All is Dust main, which also helps.

Redkid43
01-30-2016, 11:02 AM
Great list Oxidie! And good finish as well...

Very curious about Endbringer...I feel like he is too slow for the deck, what are you thoughts on him?

No Eye-Urborg combo? Also, is Veil supposed to be Warping Wail? Having a derp moment...

Barook
01-30-2016, 11:17 AM
That's the list that went 4-0 at Julian23's FNM:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZ6uv6OWcAAlbbC.jpg

Gheizen64
01-30-2016, 03:43 PM
Endbringer always undeperformed in testing for me, but i guess i can always try it again.

hofzge
02-01-2016, 03:37 AM
There are 2 general directions to a colorless eldrazi deck:
- The one mentiones in the FNM - a ramp deck that looks similar to MUD with some aditional Sollands.
- A Stompy Deck that play some disruption and Eldrazi as cheap threats

It makes little sense to compare creatures like Endbringer for both decks as they have very different functions in both decks. The deck above is clearly a rampy deck with Monoliths and Mind Stones and thus a playset of Endbringers makes more sense.

MD.Ghost
02-01-2016, 04:35 AM
There are 2 general directions to a colorless eldrazi deck:
- The one mentiones in the FNM - a ramp deck that looks similar to MUD with some aditional Sollands.
- A Stompy Deck that play some disruption and Eldrazi as cheap threats

It makes little sense to compare creatures like Endbringer for both decks as they have very different functions in both decks. The deck above is clearly a rampy deck with Monoliths and Mind Stones and thus a playset of Endbringers makes more sense.

A lot of us brew around with different builds here - afterall it seems, that we have 2 main points (for the deck core) to discuss so far:

Manabase:

We see a lot of different ideas here, besides the common slots:
4 Ancient Tomb, 4 Eldrazi Temple, 2-3 Eye of Ugin, 3-4 Cavern

we see Cloudposts-Ramo or City of Traitor (more Sollands) or Mox Diamond or Spirit Guides - all can be combined with additional Manastones (Grim Monolith, Mind Stone etc.)

The issues some of us already mentioned are; Manadenial! (mainly Wastelands in Legacy, but DnT+Lands also pack Ports) and some fear of Blood Moon etc. but most of us also wish for the right balance between consistency and explosiveness.

For me it is clear that additional "Post-Lands" are the right way. Sure it is great to max out the Turn 1 Chalice (or Trinisphere) idea, which means running Mox Diamond and/or City of Traitor (or Spirit Guides), but i dont think this is right:
-Mox Diamond, i really like it in Aggro Loam, Sylvan Plug or my White-Eldrazi Shell, but all of the decks have access to Wastelands and Crucible/Loam. Diamond is a dead draw later, so it needs a little bit support (Crucible, 25+ Lands, 4 more Maindeck slots etc.) so i don't feel the idea is right for the "colorless" Eldrazi List.
-City of Traitor, while it seems nice for Chalice and the idea to max out turn2 the Thought-Knot Seer (with all the other Lands), City seems a weak spot in any long run. It will affect Starting Hands (more Mulls), Manadenial from Opponent (they will Waste other lands and you will find you in a spot without Mana...) and afterall consistency. Consistency itself is the point for me to play this deck over MUD, because MUD (even some run also Post-Lands) rely heavily on explosiveness (ramp with Worker, Grim Monolith and Sollands) and after you put in your first "thing" (Prison Element) or in our Case something like Thought-Knot Seer you have to cross fingers that it will win the game. Sure, this can happens sometimes and Chalice&Co can win some games, but you will also lose enough Games if your Opponents starts the Game or simply have a midrange Build (Decay etc.) with Answers to this stuff. With City, Crucible seems like a good idea, in this case you can also add Mox Diamond and...you get it?
-Spirit Guides?! Sorry, Guides aren't the deal here (this is not Dragon Stompy), sure they can help to ramp out stuff or dodge Daze but in a colorless Shell you can't use them later as a Beater (Equipment bearer etc.) like Dragon Stompy.

All the Midrange Eldrazi are good enough, but they are no "Combo i Win the Game here" Elements like Show&Tell, Mono R Sneak Attack etc. will use for justifying a explosive "One Shot" Manabase.

With "Core Lands" like: 4 Ancient Tomb, 4 Eldrazi Temple, 2-3 Eye of Ugin, 3-4 Cavern i strongly suggest the add of Post-Lands (i play 8 Posts+1 Vesuva), because they will improve your overall mana development, which means more consistency, which is important in any long tournament run (you dont want to lose to yourself here!).

Post-Lands tend to be "slower" at Turn 1, which is right because you start with 0-1 Mana, but in a shell with the other lands you still have 4 Tombs (and 4 Chalice), ask any Aggro Loam Player: Starting the Game with Mox+Land+Chalice can happen often enough (besides Countermagic). At Turn 2, Postlands are ok, because most of the Time you get an Eldrazi-Land/Tomb/Glimmerpost for 3 Mana, which means Turn 3 for 5+ Mana etc. so you have enough speed and bigger threats than your opponent. Fear Wastelands? - Yesterday my opponents Waste many Cloudpost, but i simply drop Eldrazi Temple etc. a turn later and roll out the Bombs, sure it can be annoying but they can't Wasteland all of your lands (besides Loam-Engine) and even with Wastelands it is better than any "City or Spirit Guide" Situation, because additional to your opponent you also kill your own mana...
Glimmerposts are also good for some livepoints, which will matter against aggressive decks or frequently use of Tombs.

Posts are also the only lands that will allow you to use Eye of Ugin as a Tutor and/or play some big Eldrazi (or Walkers etc.), because 7+ Mana are no easy task if you gamble around with City/Guides. So i would suggest you, don't be too greedy with your Mana!

----------

Creatures

Like your manabase, creatures should be well balanced. Yes it seems spicy to pack all the "midrange" 5-6 Mana Eldrazi or go even bigger with the Titans, but they all can be struggle in your Hands (more Mulligans etc.) and need a well balanced Manabase to get them out soon enough.

For me the only "Core Eldrazi" are:
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

They are the Midrange-Power which are the real deal if you get them out fast&cheap with a good Manabase.

I added: 4 Matter Reshaper and 3 Endless One For me the "little ones" are also ok, because sometimes you need stuff for turn 1-2 or your lands are under fire and you can only play stuff for 2-3 mana. Endless One is underestimated a lot, but this guy is so good because you can scale him with your mana, early in the game he is a beater/blocker, later a great (and fearsome) finisher and (which is the real deal if you think about consistency) he will never stick in your hand because you cant cast him.

I added 3 Revoker over the "Eldrazi Mimic" Idea, because Revoker will most of the time find a usefull target (which add the ability to the Maindeck to shut something down like Sensei's, Sneak Attack, Vial etc.). Mimic itself is ok if you can drop him early and follow up with bigger Eldrazis, in this case this little guy has a nice "Aggro role". But if you can't follow up with anything (and i mean not a Reshaper), than it is a 2/1 which will do nothing on its own. If you topdeck Mimic it will also be not good enough and this deck have also other stuff (more Chalice/Sphere etc.) which aren't so good if you see them later, so i will avoid more stuff like this "can be good if i start the game with it".

I also use a pair of Endbringer here (my only Eldrazi with 6 mana so far). Because as i mentioned, running too many targets for 4-6 mana can lead to clunky hands and more headaches if your opponent has manadenial. While it can be "easy enough" to ramp to 4 or 5 mana for Seer or Smasher, 6 mana can be a harder task sometimes, this is why some are not so happy to see "Endbringer" - a long with his name, he is a "Finisher" so you only will see him later and only use some slots for 6+ stuff like him. As a "Finisher" i like him, because if he untaps he is very usefull. He won me the Mirror yesterday, because he tapped down the Smasher from my opponent and Shot him to death after i can't attack over the field. All his abilities will also profit from Eldrazi Temple!

He is also the right choice if you have to fight bigger stuff (Mirror, 12Post, MUD, Show&Tell, Reanimate etc.) so it seems not wrong to include him in the deck, even if you don't want to see him to often.

-----------------

Feel free to discuss my ideas :smile:

hofzge
02-01-2016, 06:06 AM
Manabase:

We see a lot of different ideas here, besides the common slots:
4 Ancient Tomb, 4 Eldrazi Temple, 2-3 Eye of Ugin, 3-4 Cavern

we see Cloudposts-Ramo or City of Traitor (more Sollands) or Mox Diamond or Spirit Guides - all can be combined with additional Manastones (Grim Monolith, Mind Stone etc.)

For me the only "Core Eldrazi" are:
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher


I think everyone agrees on those core lands and I have tried around with both post and "fast" mana. I just like the faster variant more as it has less bad topdecks and you like a more rampy version with more powerful spells.



For me it is clear that additional "Post-Lands" are the right way. Sure it is great to max out the Turn 1 Chalice (or Trinisphere) idea, which means running Mox Diamond and/or City of Traitor (or Spirit Guides), but i dont think this is right:


As i said before this is a choice of what playstyle you like more - Stompy or Ramp.



The issues some of us already mentioned are; Manadenial! (mainly Wastelands in Legacy, but DnT+Lands also pack Ports) and some fear of Blood Moon etc. but most of us also wish for the right balance between consistency and explosiveness.


Blood Moon is a bigger problem to the versions that don't play any mana artifacts because they are then unable to produce colorless mana. It is understandable that to a rampy deck blood moon is less critical.



-Mox Diamond, i really like it in Aggro Loam, Sylvan Plug or my White-Eldrazi Shell, but all of the decks have access to Wastelands and Crucible/Loam. Diamond is a dead draw later, so it needs a little bit support (Crucible, 25+ Lands, 4 more Maindeck slots etc.) so i don't feel the idea is right for the "colorless" Eldrazi List.
-City of Traitor, while it seems nice for Chalice and the idea to max out turn2 the Thought-Knot Seer (with all the other Lands), City seems a weak spot in any long run. It will affect Starting Hands (more Mulls), Manadenial from Opponent (they will Waste other lands and you will find you in a spot without Mana...) and afterall consistency. Consistency itself is the point for me to play this deck over MUD, because MUD (even some run also Post-Lands) rely heavily on explosiveness (ramp with Worker, Grim Monolith and Sollands) and after you put in your first "thing" (Prison Element) or in our Case something like Thought-Knot Seer you have to cross fingers that it will win the game. Sure, this can happens sometimes and Chalice&Co can win some games, but you will also lose enough Games if your Opponents starts the Game or simply have a midrange Build (Decay etc.) with Answers to this stuff. With City, Crucible seems like a good idea, in this case you can also add Mox Diamond and...you get it?


I think you value a different kind of consistency than me - you value not having your mana disrupted as in general you probably want more expensive threats. I would like my mana to be explosive to deploy lockpieces and then be able to apply pressure without too many expensive threats.



-Spirit Guides?! Sorry, Guides aren't the deal here (this is not Dragon Stompy), sure they can help to ramp out stuff or dodge Decay but in a colorless Shell you can't use them later as a Beater (Equipment bearer etc.) like Dragon Stompy.


I couldn't agree more.



All the Midrange Eldrazi are good enough, but they are no "Combo i Win the Game here" Elements like Show&Tell, Mono R Sneak Attack etc. will use for justifying a explosive "One Shot" Manabase.


This is in my opinion why you need all the lock pieces (Chalice, Trinisphere, Thought-Knot, Lodestone Golem, Phyrexian Revoker, Wasteland)



Post-Lands tend to be "slower" at Turn 1, which is right because you start with 0-1 Mana, but in a shell with the other lands you still have 4 Tombs (and 4 Chalice), ask any Aggro Loam Player: Starting the Game with Mox+Land+Chalice can happen often enough (besides Countermagic). At Turn 2, Postlands are ok, because most of the Time you get an Eldrazi-Land/Tomb/Glimmerpost for 3 Mana, which means Turn 3 for 5+ Mana etc. so you have enough speed and bigger threats than your opponent. Fear Wastelands? - Yesterday my opponents Waste many Cloudpost, but i simply drop Eldrazi Temple etc. a turn later and roll out the Bombs, sure it can be annoying but they can't Wasteland all of your lands (besides Loam-Engine) and even with Wastelands it is better than any "City or Spirit Guide" Situation, because additional to your opponent you also kill your own mana...
Glimmerposts are also good for some livepoints, which will matter against aggressive decks or frequently use of Tombs.


Again: You can play more powerful spells in the later game - the City of Traitors & Mox Diamond manabase can produce more explosive turn 1 plays.



Posts are also the only lands that will allow you to use Eye of Ugin as a Tutor and/or play some big Eldrazi (or Walkers etc.), because 7+ Mana are no easy task if you gamble around with City/Guides.


This is a big advantage for your deck.



I added: 4 Matter Reshaper and 3 Endless One For me the "little ones" are also ok, because sometimes you need stuff for turn 1-2 or your lands are under fire and you can only play stuff for 2-3 mana. Endless One is underestimated a lot, but this guy is so good because you can scale him with your mana, early in the game he is a beater/blocker, later a great (and fearsome) finisher and (which is the real deal if you think about consistency) he will never stick in your hand because you cant cast him.

I added 3 Revoker over the "Eldrazi Mimic" Idea, because Revoker will most of the time find a usefull target (which add the ability to the Maindeck to shut something down like Sensei's, Sneak Attack, Vial etc.). Mimic itself is ok if you can drop him early and follow up with bigger Eldrazis, in this case this little guy has a nice "Aggro role". But if you can't follow up with anything (and i mean not a Reshaper), than it is a 2/1 which will do nothing on its own. If you topdeck Mimic it will also be not good enough and this deck have also other stuff (more Chalice/Sphere etc.) which aren't so good if you see them later, so i will avoid more stuff like this "can be good if i start the game with it".


I also use a pair of Endbringer here (my only Eldrazi with 6 mana so far). Because as i mentioned, running too many targets for 4-6 mana can lead to clunky hands and more headaches if your opponent has manadenial. While it can be "easy enough" to ramp to 4 or 5 mana for Seer or Smasher, 6 mana can be a harder task sometimes, this is why some are not so happy to see "Endbringer" - a long with his name, he is a "Finisher" so you only will see him later and only use some slots for 6+ stuff like him. As a "Finisher" i like him, because if he untaps he is very usefull. He won me the Mirror yesterday, because he tapped down the Smasher from my opponent and Shot him to death after i can't attack over the field. All his abilities will also profit from Eldrazi Temple!


Couldn't agree more. All your points are very valid - It is unfortunate that Matter Reshaper costs 3 -> we are missing a good Eldrazi at 2 and i think that the Endless One is a good replacement as he is indeed never dead in your hand.

Manroe
02-02-2016, 04:02 AM
Was thinking about this earlier today. With mana bases as greedy as they are would there be a way to base the deck green and play ghost quarters and wastelands along side some number of explorations?

josch6083
02-03-2016, 01:57 AM
That's the list that went 4-0 at Julian23's FNM:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZ6uv6OWcAAlbbC.jpg

Hello,

as I see, my decklist was already posted. Last Friday I was very succesfull with this list. here my opinion:

I´m really exited about this deck. I hope the community can help to make the deck even stronger.

Cards I never wanted to miss:
- warping wail => killer against combo (counters tutors, Green suns zenith, show and tell, even ponder if you want ...), and in addition it kills most of the creatures you see in legacy (stoneforge, thalia, revoker, delver before flipping ...). and last but not least it´s a mana accelerator. I often play it end of turn to get the last mana I need to cast a big boy
- mind stone: a boost in the first few rounds, stabilizes mana base against wasteland, and later you cycle it for a new card. love it
- thought knot seer: I think there is no question about it!! amazing card
- ulamog: exiles everything we dont want to see: ensnaring bridge, jace, bloodmoon ...
kozilek: most of the time you get a full hand of 6-7 cards. and it hits for 12 and counters and got menace ...
- all is dust: its an eldrazi spell you cast most of the time for 5 mana. you clear the board and keep rolling. did a great job at the tournament. thinking about a third copy in the main. but not sure
- eldrazi mimic: looks a bit underpowered. and that´s what makes this card so strong. can get really ugly. and it´s a first turn drop. Mostly you attack for 4 or 5. it´s great. I would prefer mimic over matter reshaper. and if you play both of them, the mimic is no more that strong
reality smasher is also a must have. 5/5 trample haste for 5 mana and resistent to spells (unless you discard). besides endbringer the card I killed most with
- cloudpost/glimmerpost/vesuva are good cards. glimmerpost can often safe you with its effect of gaining life. but I agree that sometimes cloudpost is just a one mana land. but I still couldnt think of a better mana acceleration
- chalice of the void: bacause it shuts down 80 percent of the legacy spells, you have to play it


Things I would change:
- 4 Endbringers are to much. Three of them is enough
- now I play 3 Cavern to be more consistent against blue decks
- therefor I took out 2 Cities and the crystal vein. cities are really bad with vesuva and against wasteland-decks
- I´m not sure about the grim monoliths. up to now my experience with it is good. and the question is: is there a better mana accelerator than monolith?
- now I play 4 warping wail in the mainboard. its just to good
- I´m not sure about my sideboard. all is dust is an important slot. Needle against wasteland (thinking of taking 4), karn against control, crypt against dregde or reanimator (maybe cages would be better), thorn and trinisphere against combo. maybe a crucible??
- maybe you could take out Ugin. I got the "all is dust". therefor I dropped it for another eldrazi spell
- I played 2 eye of ugin and thinking of a third. Problem: you dont want to start with 2 vesuva and eye of ugin or the other way round.


Other Things:
- Problems: Decks, that attack your manabase are very hard to beat, eg maverick => thanks armin ;-) it´s hard to stabilze the manabase. any suggestions?
- I dont like endless one because it got no extra value like endbringer, thought knot seer or ulamog
- I thought about Thran Dynamo: but, wouldn´t I rather play a creature for 4 mana than an artifact? on the other hand it´s more consistent than grim monolith.

All in all I´m looking forward to see what´s coming up. I played MUD for a while and what I have missed, that you have no interaction with your opponent. You just have to take. With eldrazy you can counter, exile creatures, draw cards, exile planeswalkers by just casting ulamog and so on. I think this could be a real killer in legacy. Hope you guys can help me a little bit.

all the best

Manroe
02-03-2016, 03:24 AM
Hello,

as I see, my decklist was already posted. Last Friday I was very succesfull with this list. here my opinion:

I´m really exited about this deck. I hope the community can help to make the deck even stronger.

Cards I never wanted to miss:
- warping wail => killer against combo (counters tutors, Green suns zenith, show and tell, even ponder if you want ...), and in addition it kills most of the creatures you see in legacy (stoneforge, thalia, revoker, delver before flipping ...). and last but not least it´s a mana accelerator. I often play it end of turn to get the last mana I need to cast a big boy
- mind stone: a boost in the first few rounds, stabilizes mana base against wasteland, and later you cycle it for a new card. love it
- thought knot seer: I think there is no question about it!! amazing card
- ulamog: exiles everything we dont want to see: ensnaring bridge, jace, bloodmoon ...
kozilek: most of the time you get a full hand of 6-7 cards. and it hits for 12 and counters and got menace ...
- all is dust: its an eldrazi spell you cast most of the time for 5 mana. you clear the board and keep rolling. did a great job at the tournament. thinking about a third copy in the main. but not sure
- eldrazi mimic: looks a bit underpowered. and that´s what makes this card so strong. can get really ugly. and it´s a first turn drop. Mostly you attack for 4 or 5. it´s great. I would prefer mimic over matter reshaper. and if you play both of them, the mimic is no more that strong
reality smasher is also a must have. 5/5 trample haste for 5 mana and resistent to spells (unless you discard). besides endbringer the card I killed most with
- cloudpost/glimmerpost/vesuva are good cards. glimmerpost can often safe you with its effect of gaining life. but I agree that sometimes cloudpost is just a one mana land. but I still couldnt think of a better mana acceleration
- chalice of the void: bacause it shuts down 80 percent of the legacy spells, you have to play it


Things I would change:
- 4 Endbringers are to much. Three of them is enough
- now I play 3 Cavern to be more consistent against blue decks
- therefor I took out 2 Cities and the crystal vein. cities are really bad with vesuva and against wasteland-decks
- I´m not sure about the grim monoliths. up to now my experience with it is good. and the question is: is there a better mana accelerator than monolith?
- now I play 4 warping wail in the mainboard. its just to good
- I´m not sure about my sideboard. all is dust is an important slot. Needle against wasteland (thinking of taking 4), karn against control, crypt against dregde or reanimator (maybe cages would be better), thorn and trinisphere against combo. maybe a crucible??
- maybe you could take out Ugin. I got the "all is dust". therefor I dropped it for another eldrazi spell
- I played 2 eye of ugin and thinking of a third. Problem: you dont want to start with 2 vesuva and eye of ugin or the other way round.


Other Things:
- Problems: Decks, that attack your manabase are very hard to beat, eg maverick => thanks armin ;-) it´s hard to stabilze the manabase. any suggestions?
- I dont like endless one because it got no extra value like endbringer, thought knot seer or ulamog
- I thought about Thran Dynamo: but, wouldn´t I rather play a creature for 4 mana than an artifact? on the other hand it´s more consistent than grim monolith.

All in all I´m looking forward to see what´s coming up. I played MUD for a while and what I have missed, that you have no interaction with your opponent. You just have to take. With eldrazy you can counter, exile creatures, draw cards, exile planeswalkers by just casting ulamog and so on. I think this could be a real killer in legacy. Hope you guys can help me a little bit.

all the best

Good read, glad to see you've had success. What do you think about world breaker? Would it be worth any effort to try to play him or would it be too difficult to manipulate the deck to do so?

josch6083
02-03-2016, 04:36 AM
Good read, glad to see you've had success. What do you think about world breaker? Would it be worth any effort to try to play him or would it be too difficult to manipulate the deck to do so?

I like the colorless version of this deck. to exile permanents you got ulamog, warping wail, karn and ugin. this should be enough. :-)

Captain Hammer
02-03-2016, 05:51 AM
I like the colorless version of this deck. to exile permanents you got ulamog, warping wail, karn and ugin. this should be enough. :-)

Fantastic post and congrats on going 4-0.

I agree with you that this deck is a real contender in legacy and your build is probably close to the best approach to take.

I'm curious to see what your list looks like today based on your experience playing the deck since the FNM.

Here's my most current list as of 2/6/16

4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Eye of Ugin
3 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
1 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage

4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Kozilek's Channeler
4 Conduit of Ruin

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

2 Endbringer
1 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

MD.Ghost
02-03-2016, 10:06 AM
Gratz! Nice run (we can also discuss it at our german community: mtg-forum.de, i created a thread)

@your post:



- warping wail
Agree here - Playset seems right, at worst it is a rampspell for the following turn. I even block+sac against Batterskull with Jitte vs DnT one Game.
- mind stone: a boost in the first few rounds
I thought a lot about it, because it seems one of the early manastones that are usefull enough, however i don't have space at my current Eldrazi.dec to run it (justify it) over other cards...
- thought knot seer: I think there is no question about it!! amazing card
Full agree - love that guy!
- ulamog:
Yeap, that "exile on cast" is the reason i also test 1 (main or side), but casting him with moon in play seems like a hard task without enough lands/mana artifacts around.
kozilek:
I currently run a build with 24-25 lands and no artifact-ramp, so 1 titan is enough and in this case i like Ulamog over Kozilek
- all is dust:
As i mentioned - this spell is bonkers with all the lands, i run 3 main and it feels good to "Sweep" almost anything your opponent can have on the field.

- eldrazi mimic:
Unsure about him - Yes if you chain Knot, Smasher etc. into this guy it seems really good, but if you can't (wastelands, counters, bad draws etc.) he is only a 2/1...i think you are right, everybody must decide a) build with Mimic b) build with Reshaper c) build without both, the little Eldrazi are not good enought together, for me the Reshaper is still usefull, because "curves out" with Trinisphere and more value against BGx.dec because blocking a gofy and profit is better with Reshaper than with Mimic, attacking for 3 without any "support" is also good enough at legacy (delver :rolleyes: )

reality smasher is also a must have. 5/5 trample haste for 5 mana and resistent to spells (unless you discard). besides endbringer the card I killed most with
Sure! Both cards should be at main, Smasher clearly as a playset and Endbringer should be ok at 2-3, because most of the time he is only for the long run (and some matchups with nasty big creatures^^)

- cloudpost/glimmerpost/vesuva are good cards. glimmerpost can often safe you with its effect of gaining life. but I agree that sometimes cloudpost is just a one mana land. but I still couldnt think of a better mana acceleration
Yep, Mana mana mana, Postlands are still ok, slower but more powerfull (and the deck is full of Wasteland targets, so it doesnt matter)
- chalice of the void: bacause it shuts down 80 percent of the legacy spells, you have to play it
Agree!

Things I would change:
- 4 Endbringers are to much. Three of them is enough
see above
- now I play 3 Cavern to be more consistent against blue decks
i run 3-4, depends if i want 2-3 Vesuva
- therefor I took out 2 Cities and the crystal vein. cities are really bad with vesuva and against wasteland-decks
as i mentioned the last page - City is very risky - too much for me.
- I´m not sure about the grim monoliths. up to now my experience with it is good. and the question is: is there a better mana accelerator than monolith?
Nope - you named them all, Grim Monolith, Mind Stone and Thran Dynamo - all have their pro's and con's
- now I play 4 warping wail in the mainboard. its just to good
see above
- I´m not sure about my sideboard. all is dust is an important slot. Needle against wasteland (thinking of taking 4), karn against control, crypt against dregde or reanimator (maybe cages would be better), thorn and trinisphere against combo. maybe a crucible??
Depends a lot of the field/main config, i currently run:
3 Faerie Macabre (like it over crypt because it is free, turn 0, uncounterable and your opponent will use his spells for his plan - so you profit more!
3 Ratchet Bomb (kills a lot of stuff)
3 Thorn of Amethyst (or Mindbreak Trap vs Storm, but Thorn is important vs Burn i feel, because Price of Progress will kill us!)
2 Maze of Ith (Fast Aggro, Infect etc.)
2 Wastes (Blood Moon, Mana Denial etc.)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (unsure here, Jitte is never a bad choice, but it can also be a 3rd Endbringer if i fear more "big ones")
1 Crucible of Worlds (Mostly vs Lands, Loam)

- maybe you could take out Ugin. I got the "all is dust". therefor I dropped it for another eldrazi spell
I like Ugin, but All is Dust profit way better from all the lands, even an Eldrazi Titan can easier be cast with the right lands compared to Ugin.
- I played 2 eye of ugin and thinking of a third. Problem: you dont want to start with 2 vesuva and eye of ugin or the other way round.
For me 2 Eyes are right, you never want to see more than one and your Opponent will Waste other lands most of the time (because Eye can't be used for Chalice, Warping etc.)

Other Things:
- Problems: Decks, that attack your manabase are very hard to beat, eg maverick => thanks armin ;-) it´s hard to stabilze the manabase. any suggestions?
Crucible, more lands and/or mana artifacts - Graveyard Hate if they use Loam etc.
- I dont like endless one because it got no extra value like endbringer, thought knot seer or ulamog
The value it has is: Cast it every time, because it is a 1/1 or 10/10 depends on your mana, in this case he is very good because he is never dead or useless in hand/topdeck (and if you like Mimic, Endless One can be a good friend)
- I thought about Thran Dynamo: but, wouldn´t I rather play a creature for 4 mana than an artifact? on the other hand it´s more consistent than grim monolith.
see above

Overall - liked your post, good discussion here so far!

MGB
02-03-2016, 10:17 AM
Does anyone have the list that josch6083 played? It doesn't show up for me in any of the posts in this thread.

Mr. Froggy
02-03-2016, 10:23 AM
its post #93, its like a copy/paste of a list.

josch6083
02-03-2016, 12:49 PM
Overall - liked your post, good discussion here so far![/QUOTE]

Hey MD Ghost: Danke für deine Ergänzungen! Ich sehe, wir haben viele Leute, die das Deck richtig gut sehen möchten.

Hier mal meine aktuelle Liste:

Creatures:
4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Thought Knot seer
4x Reality smasher
3x Endbringer
1x Ulamog, the ceaseless Hunger
1x Kozilek Great distortion

Mana:
4x Mindstone
4x Grim Monolith

Spells:
4x Warping Wail
2x All is dust
4x Chalice of the void

Lands:
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Ancient tomb
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
3x Vesuva
2x Eye of Ugin
3x Cavern of Souls

Gedanken:
1 „Endbringer“ out => 1 land oder artefakt ramp mehr oder Phrexian Metamorph (kann als Mindstone Kopie oder als Beater kommen, je nach Bedarf)

gedanken zum Sideboard:
Ratchet bomb => finde ich super => werde ich spielen
Crypt, Cage oder Faeries => Geschmackssache
Pithing needle => finde ich sehr wichtig gegen Mana denial. Revoker machen leider nichts gegen wasteland
All is dust => eine weitere Kopie ist ausreichend. mehr als 3 braucht man insgesamt nicht
Thorn of Amethyst => ein muss => gegen Combo und anderen Quatsch
Karn Liberated => habe beim Turnier 2 Gespielt, vll reicht auch einer im sb
Crucible: könnte zu langsam sein gegen mana denial. Hab ich im mud immer gespielt, aber dann muss eigentlich auch selber wastelands spielen, damit man crucible auch aggressiv verwenden kann

Das sideboard ist echt tricky. bin gespannt, welche Ideen noch von euch kommen.

Captain Hammer
02-03-2016, 01:02 PM
Conduit of Ruin seems highly underrated in a list like the above playing Ulamog and Kozilek. It not only tutors up the silver bullet you most want right when you finally have the mana to ramp into it, but it makes it much much easier to cast as well. Basically an Eye of Ugin with a 5/5 body. Eye of Ugin you have to wait till you have 7 mana (and you can't use eldarazi cost reducers like eye of ugin or eldirazi temple) to use the ability, assuming you have an Eye of Ugin and Eldarzi Temple in play to lower Conduit of Ruin's casting cost, you can cast Conduit of Ruin when you have 3-4 fewer lands than you would need to use Eye of Ugin's tutoring ability.

I think both Conduit of Ruin and Oblivion Sower will be key to helping ramp up to mana needed for Ulamog and Kozilek. I would probably also play Void Winnower as a one of silver bullet to tutor up with Conduit of Ruin due to it's synergy with chalice at 1 to lock people out completely.

Ultimately though, the Conduit of Ruin and Oblivion Sower route may be better when paired with faster ramping lands like City of Traitors or Crystal Vein instead of utility lands like Cavern of Souls.

Especially since Oblivion Sower's ability doesn't blow up City of Traitors.

City of Traitors also works reasonably well with Conduit of Ruin. Once you tutor up Kozilek with Conduit and draw it, you can tap the City of Traitors for 2 mana, then play the Eldarazi Temple or Ancient Tomb that's been stuck in your hand for 2 more mana and you will have enough mana to hard cast either Kozilek and draw yourself a fist full of lands.

For example:
Turn 1 - Ancient Tomb or Eldrazi Temple - Chalice at 1 or cast a Mimic
Turn 2 - Eye of Ugin or Ancient Tomb or Eldrazi Temple - Thought Knot Seer
Turn 3 - City of Traitors - Conduit of Ruin to tutor up Kozilek
Turn 4 - Tap city for 2 mana, play Ancient Tomb or Crystal Vein and sac it for 2 more mana - cast Kozilek and draw a fistful of cards even if it gets countered.

What do you guys think?

T-101
02-03-2016, 03:00 PM
Conduit of Ruin seems highly underrated in a list like the above playing Ulamog and Kozilek. It not only tutors up the silver bullet you most want right when you finally have the mana to ramp into it, but it makes it much much easier to cast as well. Basically an Eye of Ugin with a 5/5 body. Eye of Ugin you have to wait till you have 7 mana (and you can't use eldarazi cost reducers like eye of ugin or eldirazi temple) to use the ability, assuming you have an Eye of Ugin and Eldarzi Temple in play to lower Conduit of Ruin's casting cost, you can cast Conduit of Ruin when you have 3-4 fewer lands than you would need to use Eye of Ugin's tutoring ability.

I think both Conduit of Ruin and Oblivion Sower will be key to helping ramp up to mana needed for Ulamog and Kozilek. I would probably also play Void Winnower as a one of silver bullet to tutor up with Conduit of Ruin due to it's synergy with chalice at 1 to lock people out completely.

Ultimately though, the Conduit of Ruin and Oblivion Sower route may be better when paired with faster ramping lands like City of Traitors or Crystal Vein instead of utility lands like Cavern of Souls.

Especially since Oblivion Sower's ability doesn't blow up City of Traitors.

City of Traitors also works reasonably well with Conduit of Ruin. Once you tutor up Kozilek with Conduit and draw it, you can tap the City of Traitors for 2 mana, then play the Eldarazi Temple or Ancient Tomb that's been stuck in your hand for 2 more mana and you will have enough mana to hard cast either Kozilek and draw yourself a fist full of lands.

For example:
Turn 1 - Ancient Tomb or Eldrazi Temple - Chalice at 1 or cast a Mimic
Turn 2 - Eye of Ugin or Ancient Tomb or Eldrazi Temple - Thought Knot Seer
Turn 3 - City of Traitors - Conduit of Ruin to tutor up Kozilek
Turn 4 - Tap city for 2 mana, play Ancient Tomb or Crystal Vein and sac it for 2 more mana - cast Kozilek and draw a fistful of cards even if it gets countered.

What do you guys think?

If you're going with the longer game Eldrazi deck, Conduit seems awesome. Having both Kozilek and NUlamog (and possibly other stuff, like Void Winnower) allows you to set up for good positions against many likely situations.

There still seems to be two distinct decks being discussed in this thread. One of them is a more traditional Stompy deck with cheaper creatures, and then there's also an Eldrazi value deck that wants to go long.

Captain Hammer
02-03-2016, 09:32 PM
A manabase similar to the below is able to support both explosiveness and a long game...

4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cloudpost
3x Glimmerpost
3x City of Traitors
3x Eye of Ugin
3x Crystal Vein
2x Vesuva

Vesuva can always copy an Eldrazi Temple if a Cloudpost isn't in play, or can even copy an Ancient Tomb if you're really desperate for mana. Thus, effectively, every single land above with the exception of Glimmerpost (this is why I cut it to 3) is capable of tapping for two mana by itself. This effectively lets the deck cut chaff like Mind Stones and Grim Monoliths and go very threat dense.

With a manabase as above, I would play no more than 10 Non Eldarazi cards at most.

Here's the build I'm playing around with...

Here's my most current list as of 2/6/16

4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Eye of Ugin
3 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
1 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage

4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Kozilek's Channeler
4 Conduit of Ruin

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

2 Endbringer
1 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

I really love the way this list is performing.

TTX
02-03-2016, 10:52 PM
I've been testing a version of the Eldrazi Stompy deck. By the way, I like the Hammer's build too. I think the 3 Flex Slots should be Revoker.

Overall it is quite powerful, but there's still room for improvement.
Something like Coercive Portal would be nice.

Here's my current list, it will be changing soon.

2 Conduit of Ruin
3 Endbringer
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Void Winnower

2 Spatial Contortion
4 Warping Wail
3 All Is Dust

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Grim Monolith

4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Glimmerpost
4 Wasteland
2 Eye of Ugin

SB

4 Pithing Needle
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Trinisphere
1 All Is Dust

Fun to play, Reality Smasher is amazing. I prefer Revoker over Mimic because it shuts off stuff like Jace and Sneak Attack and Top and DRS, etc.

MD.Ghost
02-04-2016, 04:27 AM
A manabase similar to the below is able to support both explosiveness and a long game...

4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cloudpost
4x Vesuva
3x Glimmerpost
3x City of Traitors
3x Eye of Ugin
2x Crystal Vein

With a manabase as above, I would play no more than 10 Non Eldarazi cards at most.

"Only" 10 Non Eldrazi is a hard task, because you will miss a lot of good "colorless" stuff which can be an issue. With that Manabase i would try 2 Crucible, because (besides Wastelands - a problem we all mentioned) with City, Crystal and 3 Eye of Ugin (which is one more than common) you will struggle with your mana (without interaction from your opponent). What i still like is the "cut" of all Mana Artifacts, because they tend to be worst topdecks and i would play more lands (currently 25) instead of Mana Artifacts with my current build.

Here's the build I'm playing around with...

@Build: For me it is too "top heavy" which means, more clunky starting hands, more vulnerable to Manadenial/Softcounters (even a daze can ruin a day i learned the last days). I don't see any situation where it is necessary to play more than one Titan (even one might be "win more" most of the time). Sure it is spicy to use all the Eldrazi Bombs and living the Dream with access to a lot of mana. For me the new Ulamog is enough, because he acts like a good "removal" (like all is dust) with a hard hitting body and both are only relevant, if the opponent managed to survive long enough (which only a few decks should be able) - with only a 2 Trinisphere and Warping Wail, Combo will still "steam roll" you in most "Game 1 Situations". Even in a long grindy game, a "little" Smasher is a hard task for most decks, so i would chain them if i can use Eye of Ugin (with 10 Mana you can tutor, cast, attack - which is better than "tutor", wait a turn, cast, wait a turn).

This still leaves me with 3 flex slots that I can't pin down. I've tried everything from a 2nd Ulamog to a 3rd Warping Wail or a 3rd Trinisphere or a 3rd Endbringer or a 3rd Crystal Vein to Urza's Incubator, Eldrazi Mimic, Rachet Bomb, Jitte, Blight Herder, Oblivion Sower and Endless One and each has been good at times. There doesn't seem to be any one right answer for the 3 flex slots from what I can see.

I have 3 Revoker Main and they perform very well (besides "non Eldrazi" issues") - the real deal is that you can interact with your Opponent instead of only "beat him down" - because for the Beats the deck has more than enough stuff.


I've been testing a version of the Eldrazi Stompy deck. By the way, I like the Hammer's build too. I think the 3 Flex Slots should be Revoker.

As i mentioned above

Overall it is quite powerful, but there's still room for improvement.
Something like Coercive Portal would be nice.

I testet Portal and it is only good as a "draw" vs Control, but against Control (Miracle) we have so many other good cards - don't think Portal is the deal, because the "Wipe the field" Stuff will not happen often enough.

Here's my current list, it will be changing soon.

@Build: Wastelands without Trinisphere and/or Crucible? Yeah a Wasteland can win the game, but the Eldrazi deck will need a lot of mana for itself, so you only will use Wastelands if you are in a good position, i think in a Stompy Shell which aims for dropping a lot of spicy bombs (Eldrazis and Prision Stuff) we should avoid to hamper ourselves without the right support (for Wastelands: Crucible and/or Trinisphere to really lock out the Opponent) - mainy (mostly blue) legacy decks can operate with only 1-2 lands, sure if you count "Sollands" for Eldrazi this can be true for Eldrazi too, but in this case Thought-Knot Seer is still "the end of the line" with 4 Mana.


@Pithing Needle or the Wasteland Case:

I don't like the idea to play a 1 Mana Solution in a deck with Chalice and Trinisphere (which overall are much better vs most Wasteland decks). I am now playing 25 lands (without any Mana Artifact), and 2 Wastes and 2 Maze at Side - for me this is stable enough, because they can't Waste all of your lands, i faced many situations were my first 1-2 Lands got Wasted (try to put the "right" one as a target on the field), but i simply follow with enough other lands - and if an opponent use Wasteland without any field position, they will hamper themselves a lot.

Note i also use 1 Crucible at Side vs Loam-Based-Wastelands (a long with 3 Faerie as Graveyard Hate) - if Lands and/or Aggro Loam are a problem, i can also see the 4 Slots as a Playset Leyline of the Void, which will also kill real Graveyard decks etc. Crypt has the big disadvantage, that you can't use it on the draw, it can be countered and once on the field, your opponent can try to play around it.

Asgar
02-04-2016, 07:23 AM
My current list:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Mind Stone
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Warping Wail
1 Void Winnower
1 All Is Dust
1 Ulamog's Crusher
SB: 3 Spatial Contortion
SB: 1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
SB: 3 Eldrazi Mimic
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 All Is Dust
SB: 1 Ruin Processor

Runs smooth and wins a lot on cockatrice. Will bring it to my next local tournament and tell you how it went^^

meanee
02-04-2016, 07:29 AM
My current list:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Mind Stone
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Warping Wail
1 Void Winnower
1 All Is Dust
1 Ulamog's Crusher
SB: 3 Spatial Contortion
SB: 1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
SB: 3 Eldrazi Mimic
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 All Is Dust
SB: 1 Ruin Processor

Runs smooth and wins a lot on cockatrice. Will bring it to my next local tournament and tell you how it went^^

You seem to have a lot of unusual choices (as far as anything can be labelled "unusual" in a developing deck), would you mind sharing your thoughts on the Crusher, which seems very underwhelming? on 4 Sowers, whose purpose I still have a difficult time spotting? on the 4 Eyes of ugin which seems to have a very high risk of being cluncky seeing as they are legendary? and finally the sb, where I have trouble understanding the mimics and the ruin processer?

Captain Hammer
02-04-2016, 07:57 AM
I actually really like the singleton Ulamog's Crusher. It works really well with Conduit of Ruin. Good Call. I'm going to make room for one in my build.

josch6083
02-04-2016, 04:47 PM
Hi,

I think we should focus on which direction we´re going. I think the most important thing is to follow a certain strategy. You cannot be an aggressive Stompy deck, and trying to be a control deck with revoker, trinisphere and wastelands as well. Then there is no synergy.

Of course revoker is a powerful creature but we also give up power to destroy our opponent. Wastelands are similar. If I want to play wasteland then I have to play crucible, too. and if we continue to put more and more control spells into the deck, the first idea is obsolete.

I like the idea of a crazy beat down stompy with ulamog and kozilek backup. I think that´s the right direction. :-)
Maze of Ith sounds good at first, but if I was the opponent I would rather destroy the mana-lands first and build up my own board. And later I can focus on the maze. This is where death and texas, maverick and co. will go. And they got more than 2 creatures anyway. so the profit of maze is questionable.

Conduit of ruin is an interesting card. I´m thinking about 1 main. Then you only need 2 Eye of ugin and can use conduit as a third tutor for ulamog or kozilek.

The idea of 25 lands without any further mana artifacts is too risky in my opinion. Especially against decks with wasteland, rishadan port, thalia ... You can only drop one land per turn. it can be a long way to cast a fatty against these disruptive cards.

bruizar
02-04-2016, 04:52 PM
Man, I'm running 4 conduits. Eye of Ugin is legendary and the cost reduction of conduit + eye makes a big difference. Also, why sink mana into an Eye activation when you can have a 5/5 that reduces the cost of the game ending card for 1 less mana?

Krasman
02-04-2016, 05:08 PM
I have been running the following list in the last 3 events I have went to, with some minor modifications each time, and it was been running beautifully. I chose to go a more controlling route than most.


//Artifact (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
4 Mind Stone
3 Trinisphere

//Artifact Creature (3)
3 Phyrexian Revoker

//Creature (10)
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 Oblivion Sower
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

//Instant (3)
3 Warping Wail

//Planeswalker (3)
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

//Tribal Sorcery (2)
2 All Is Dust

//Land (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Thespian's Stage

SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Orbs of Warding
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 Spatial Contortion
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Warping Wail
SB: 2 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 1 Cursed Totem


These are the matchups so far:
20$ event - Jan. 31st
Rnd 1 - Miracles - 2-1
Rnd 2 - Storm - 2-0
Rnd 3 - D&T - 2-0
Rnd 4 - Merfolk - ID (to be 1st seed in top 4)
QTRs - Lands - 0-2

8$ event - Feb. 2nd
Rnd 1 - Miracles - 2-0
Rnd 2 - Maverick - 2-1
Rnd 3 - Tin Fins - 2-0
Rnd 4 - Goblin Stompy - 2-0

5$ event - Feb. 3rd
Rnd 1 - Reanimator - 2-0
Rnd 2 - Storm - 2-0
Rnd 3 - D&T - 2-0

Other than lands every match up felt really good.

Oxide
02-04-2016, 05:43 PM
Sup mates!

So today there was another Tourny at my local store, and same as last Thursday, i went 5-0.

Im now 10-0 in rounds
20-2 in games over all.

My list is alot more aggro oriented than most of yours. im not play any post lands, im going all out on City of traitors, ancient tombs, and even Crystal veils so i can power my dudes through early.

4x Seer
4x Smasher
4x Mimic
4x Reshaper
3x Endbringer
1x Ulamog

4x Chalice
4x trinisphere
3x Veil
2x Spartial
2x Mind stone
1x All is dust

4x temple
4x City of traitors
4x Ancient tomb
4x Crystal Veil
3x Cavern
3x Eye of ugin
1x Wastes
1x Urborg

Sideboard:

4x Thorn
3x Revoker
2x Tormods crypt
2x Rachet bomb
1x Jitte
1x Crucible
1xTsabos web

and something i cant remmeber right now.

Matches was against:

2-0 Bug delver
2-0 Bug delver
2-0 Death and taxes
2-1 Burn
2-0 Grixis control

At the moment there is nothing i would consider swappin out other than the Ulamog, i have hard time casting it, but then again its nice to have a bomb later in the game, and it can remove annoying stuff like blood moons, and what so ever.

Heres a little showcase of what this build can do.

im playing against Death and taxes, its game one and im starting. my hand is the following

1x Mimic
2x reshaper
1x seer
1x Eye of ugin
1x smasher
1x Crystal vein

Turn one: Eye - mimic - go

Turn two: Draw temple - play temple - double reshaper - hit for 3 with mimic

Turn three: Draw Crystal vein - play Crystal vein - Play smasher - Attack with everything for a total of 16

Turn four: Draw Smasher - play smasher - attack with everything for 21.


I mean, i've played this deck 2 times now, and it feels like a monster, ofc people aint ready for it and so on, but this really feels like "the real deal"

Oxide.

mistercakes
02-04-2016, 07:35 PM
I have been running the following list in the last 3 events I have went to, with some minor modifications each time, and it was been running beautifully. I chose to go a more controlling route than most.


//Artifact (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
4 Mind Stone
3 Trinisphere

//Artifact Creature (3)
3 Phyrexian Revoker

//Creature (10)
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 Oblivion Sower
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

//Instant (3)
3 Warping Wail

//Planeswalker (3)
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

//Tribal Sorcery (2)
2 All Is Dust

//Land (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmervoid
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Thespian's Stage

SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Orbs of Warding
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 Spatial Contortion
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Warping Wail
SB: 2 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 1 Cursed Totem


These are the matchups so far:
20$ event - Jan. 31st
Rnd 1 - Miracles - 2-1
Rnd 2 - Storm - 2-0
Rnd 3 - D&T - 2-0
Rnd 4 - Merfolk - ID (to be 1st seed in top 4)
QTRs - Lands - 0-2

8$ event - Feb. 2nd
Rnd 1 - Miracles - 2-0
Rnd 2 - Maverick - 2-1
Rnd 3 - Tin Fins - 2-0
Rnd 4 - Goblin Stompy - 2-0

5$ event - Feb. 3rd
Rnd 1 - Reanimator - 2-0
Rnd 2 - Storm - 2-0
Rnd 3 - D&T - 2-0

Other than lands every match up felt really good.

glimmervoid = glimmerpost

Captain Hammer
02-04-2016, 09:40 PM
In regards to mana artifacts, I think we really need to establish which of the 4 options is the best route to go...

Mind Stone - Cheap and cantrips so it's not a horrible late game but makes very little mana
Grim Monolith - Cheap and Explosive but one time use and crappy late game
Thran Dynamo - Explosive and reusable but crappy late game and not cheap
Hedron Archive - Not Cheap but it's semiexplosive, reusable and draws two so it's okay late game

Looking at the comparison, I'm actually leaning most strongly towards Hedron Archive over the other three alternatives.


glimmervoid = glimmerpost

That makes a lot more sense.

I'm more curious about your decision to play Thespian's Stage in lieu of Vesuva. Did you try Thespian's Stage. Just curious if there was a specific factor that made you go with Thespian's Stage instead of Vesuva.

If they're both good, I'm tempted to try out a controllish build that plays eye of ugin/temple + cloudpost + glimmerpost + vesuva + thespian's stage + urborg + dark depths :rolleyes:

T-101
02-04-2016, 10:09 PM
Stage does enter untapped, and makes <> this turn. Paying (2) is probably less of a deal here than in other decks, because sometimes it will only require 1 land, and there's plenty of mana rocks in his list.

Xanthos
02-05-2016, 12:01 AM
I'd love to give this deck a try, but there are so many variations I'm not sure where to start. If anyone can give me some of the new core cards I need to grab it would be appreciated. I have all the old staples.

Krasman
02-05-2016, 12:20 AM
In regards to mana artifacts, I think we really need to establish which of the 4 options is the best route to go...

I'm more curious about your decision to play Thespian's Stage in lieu of Vesuva. Did you try Thespian's Stage. Just curious if there was a specific factor that made you go with Thespian's Stage instead of Vesuva.

If they're both good, I'm tempted to try out a controllish build that plays eye of ugin/temple + cloudpost + glimmerpost + vesuva + thespian's stage + urborg + dark depths :rolleyes:

Glimmervoid should of been Glimmerpost... blonde moment.

I tried a mix of both and decided on Stage over Vesuva. I wanted less come in play tapped land and Stage can be any land you want. (be it Temple, Post)

Not sure Dark Depths is where I'd want to go... but I may up the Stage count to 3 or even 4, most likely cutting City of Traitors; I find really week in the build.

Played tonight went 3-1.

Rnd 1 - Ooze Reanimator - 0-2 :(
Rnd 2 - Esper Stoneblade - 2-0
Rnd 3 - ANT - 2-1
Rnd 4 - Goblins - 2-0

josch6083
02-05-2016, 04:13 AM
Just a thought . If you want to play 3-4 eye of ugin => maybe thespians stage is a better choice over vesuve. Because you dont want to start with 2 vesuva and 1 eye of ugin in hand. And you can use the mana immediately.
Disadvantage is that you cant use vesuva as a glimmerpost copy. The life gaining effect did a lot of good work for me though.

bruizar
02-05-2016, 10:06 AM
Here's my list:

creatures 23
4 Conduit of Ruin
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, The Great Distortion
1 Void Winnower

spells 17
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Urza’s Incubator
3 Warping Wail
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 All is Dust

land 20
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas

Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Ruin Processor
1 All is Dust
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Warping Wail


Phyrexian Revoker, Chalice of the Void, Thought-Knot Seer and Trinisphere are meant to disrupt the early game until you can explode into bombs.
Urza's Incubator + Eye of Ugin + Conduit of Ruin provide cost reduction which frees up mana for Eye of Ugin activations and use your mana to play spells like All is Dust. (Interesting fact: Conduit of Ruin reduces the cost of Phyrexian Revoker to 0.)

I'm thinking of replacing the Cavern of Souls because the cast triggers are good enough that I don't care about counterspells. Perhaps a Dustbowl could be used so that I can pressure my opponents mana with lands I steal with Oblivion Sower and extra legendary lands. It could also be replaced for Miren, the Moaning Well or Diamond Valley (In this case I need to have Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play) against aggressive burn decks / delver.

Cire
02-05-2016, 11:27 AM
I'd love to give this deck a try, but there are so many variations I'm not sure where to start. If anyone can give me some of the new core cards I need to grab it would be appreciated. I have all the old staples.

The new cards you definitely need are probably just:

Thought-Knot Seer
Reality Smasher
Eldrazi Temple
Eye of Ugin

The following is a list of new cards which are not quite staples but close to being them:

Oblivion Sower
Warping Wail
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
All is dust

The following is a list of new cards which depend on the version being run:

Eldrazi Displacer
Wasteland Strangler
Eldrazi Mimic
Conduit of Ruin
Endbringer

I am sure I am missing something, but as you said, this deck is in too much flux at the moment to give you a more concrete answer.

Barook
02-05-2016, 03:28 PM
I'm thinking of replacing the Cavern of Souls because the cast triggers are good enough that I don't care about counterspells. Perhaps a Dustbowl could be used so that I can pressure my opponents mana with lands I steal with Oblivion Sower and extra legendary lands. It could also be replaced for Miren, the Moaning Well or Diamond Valley (In this case I need to have Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play) against aggressive burn decks / delver.
There's also Tomb of the Spirit Dragon, although that might be too slow.

Isn't 3sphere + massive cost reduction kind of a nonbo?

bruizar
02-05-2016, 03:52 PM
There's also Tomb of the Spirit Dragon, although that might be too slow.

Isn't 3sphere + massive cost reduction kind of a nonbo?

I don't really mind paying 3 for an Eldrazi. I think it hurts Brainstorms and Ponders much more than Eldrazi's. I was also thinking of running 4 Thorn of Amethyst/Sphere of Resistance in the main instead of Trinisphere, precisely because I have cost reducers.

korstructure
02-05-2016, 07:28 PM
A case for splitting threads - Stompy vs "Cloudpost" versions.

So, CFB's modern deck at the Pro Tour uses Chalice and Simian Spirit Guide in a Stompy shell. No processors, no top-end, no splash.

CFB has chosen to make the fastest and most brutal Eldrazi deck possible. They eschew interaction, Ulamog or any top-end in favor of Mimic chains and beatdown. SSG allows them to "fix" some awkwardness in their draws - go from four mana to five for Reality Smasher - and ramp out a Turn 1 Chalice.

I propose that this particular thread focus on this "fast and brutal" direction - classic Stompy. Cloudpost decks and those that play Ulamog should probably split off into another thread.

Some thoughts to further discussion of true Stompy:


Is SSG the best fast-mana? Should we consider Chrome Mox (a la Goblin Stompy)?
Warping Wail is obviously better for Legacy and should be maindecked. What other interaction is vital?
Trinisphere and/or Thorn of Amethyst add an interesting wrinkle - someone even recommended Thorn main over Trinisphere, which I like. Thoughts on this direction?


EDIT: A "guess" of their list - http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/370507#paper

Gheizen64
02-05-2016, 07:30 PM
Isn't incubator basically a worse worn powerstone? Can't be used to pay for C, can't be used to cast spheres, wails, activate Eye, and is better only if you play 2+ eldrazis in the same turn. I'd rather try worn powerstone, mindstone, monolith etc... also more sinergystic with 3sphere.

How are Conduit of Ruin and Sower been for you? Sower seems not really good with so many fetches and little land, Conduit of Ruin seems more interesting as a pseudo-mana source + consistency as a pseudo-tutor (also it's an on-cast effect so even if countered it can tutor for ulamog/koz), but placing monsters on the top of your library seems a way to just get bad draws since you can rarely cast them without posts.

T-101
02-05-2016, 07:53 PM
A case for splitting threads - Stompy vs "Cloudpost" versions.

So, CFB's modern deck at the Pro Tour uses Chalice and Simian Spirit Guide in a Stompy shell. No processors, no top-end, no splash.

CFB has chosen to make the fastest and most brutal Eldrazi deck possible. They eschew interaction, Ulamog or any top-end in favor of Mimic chains and beatdown. SSG allows them to "fix" some awkwardness in their draws - go from four mana to five for Reality Smasher - and ramp out a Turn 1 Chalice.

I propose that this particular thread focus on this "fast and brutal" direction - classic Stompy. Cloudpost decks and those that play Ulamog should probably split off into another thread.

Some thoughts to further discussion of true Stompy:


Is SSG the best fast-mana? Should we consider Chrome Mox (a la Goblin Stompy)?
Warping Wail is obviously better for Legacy and should be maindecked. What other interaction is vital?
Trinisphere and/or Thorn of Amethyst add an interesting wrinkle - someone even recommended Thorn main over Trinisphere, which I like. Thoughts on this direction?


So Chome Mox is a bit weird. This deck thread is still kind of a mish-mash, but I assume you running nearly 60 colorless cards in the deck. Chrome Mox only makes mana of the exiled card's COLOR. So colorless cards don't work with it. That includes devoid cards. So if you're splashing green for World Breaker, or some other color for some devoid card, Chrome Mox does nothing :(

That said, I'm not sure the Legacy decks really need Simian Spirit Guide. I think that CFB is running it because they want to turn 1 Chalice very often. SSG is really the only way Modern can do that. Legacy has true Sol lands in Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors. Run 7-8 of those before any SSG in my opinion.

Warping Wail is a hell of a lot better in Legacy. You might be aware of cards such as Show and Tell, Natural Order, Terminus, Ancestral Vision, Infernal Tutor, Past In Flames, etc. It also hits random guys that can cause problems (Goblin Welder, Painter's Servant, unflipped Delver, a million other cards). It technically deals with Mother of Runes too, which is cute, but I don't think Mother of Runes is going to cause this deck any problems. Colorless, :laugh: .

The thing I like about Trinisphere is that it just bricks some decks. Where Thorn can be a gigantic pain in the ass for many decks, EVERYONE hates Trinisphere.

Barook
02-05-2016, 08:18 PM
A case for splitting threads - Stompy vs "Cloudpost" versions.

So, CFB's modern deck at the Pro Tour uses Chalice and Simian Spirit Guide in a Stompy shell. No processors, no top-end, no splash.

CFB has chosen to make the fastest and most brutal Eldrazi deck possible. They eschew interaction, Ulamog or any top-end in favor of Mimic chains and beatdown. SSG allows them to "fix" some awkwardness in their draws - go from four mana to five for Reality Smasher - and ramp out a Turn 1 Chalice.

I propose that this particular thread focus on this "fast and brutal" direction - classic Stompy. Cloudpost decks and those that play Ulamog should probably split off into another thread.

Some thoughts to further discussion of true Stompy:


Is SSG the best fast-mana? Should we consider Chrome Mox (a la Goblin Stompy)?
Warping Wail is obviously better for Legacy and should be maindecked. What other interaction is vital?
Trinisphere and/or Thorn of Amethyst add an interesting wrinkle - someone even recommended Thorn main over Trinisphere, which I like. Thoughts on this direction?


EDIT: A "guess" of their list - http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/370507#paper
Modern doesn't have Cloudpost, so drawing comparisons with Legacy is kinda lackluster since they only have Tron as hyperramp lands.

SSG as additional ramp seems interesting since it can bridge mana gaps (e.g. SoL lands + normal land into 4 drop, or 2x Sol into Smasher), but Legacy has access to Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors and Crystal Vein.

It might be a guide for direction, but I would be cautios about a 1:1 translation of tech from a different format.

korstructure
02-06-2016, 01:06 AM
I totally agree with you and understand what you're saying.

My intention may have been lost - I was merely using the CFB Modern list's objective as a means to set a line of separation between the two decks that we're talking about here. The Cloudpost decks and the SSG-type decks are aiming for different board states and game lengths.

With that said, another question for furthering the Stompy discussion - Mox Diamond. I know it was brought up earlier in the thread but it was rejected for no specific reason. Do we think it could be a reasonable card? Again, it would have applications similar to SSG to "smooth out" our ramp numbers. Thoughts? In the same vein... Lotus Petal?


Modern doesn't have Cloudpost, so drawing comparisons with Legacy is kinda lackluster since they only have Tron as hyperramp lands.

SSG as additional ramp seems interesting since it can bridge mana gaps (e.g. SoL lands + normal land into 4 drop, or 2x Sol into Smasher), but Legacy has access to Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors and Crystal Vein.

It might be a guide for direction, but I would be cautios about a 1:1 translation of tech from a different format.

TTX
02-06-2016, 01:44 AM
I agree that this thread should be leaning toward the aggro "Stompy" archetype.
Turbo Eldrazi is a different strategy (a very good one) but not what this one is about.

My current list is:

21 Creatures

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Endbringer
2 Spellskite
4 Reality Smasher

19 Non-creatures

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
2 All Is Dust

24 Lands

4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Vesuva

Sideboard

2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Tsabo's Web
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands and Burn remain the most difficult matchups.
This deck destroys most in Legacy. The format simply can't handle so many large creatures. It's funny to me that people auto-Force Thought-Knot Seer. It's so good.

Please let me know what you guys think!!

bruizar
02-06-2016, 02:19 AM
I'd like to mention day 1 oath of the gatewatch winner Tao Chung's undefeated UR Eldrazi list. An approximation to his list is:

Creatures (32)
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Ruination Guide
4 Vile Aggregate
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Drowner of Hope
Spells (4)
4 Lightning Bolt
Lands (24)
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
2 Gemstone Caverns
1 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
1 Wastes
Sideboard (12)
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Spellskite
4 Dismember



Vile Aggregate + Drowner of Hope was disgusting.

bruizar
02-06-2016, 02:33 AM
Isn't incubator basically a worse worn powerstone? Can't be used to pay for C, can't be used to cast spheres, wails, activate Eye, and is better only if you play 2+ eldrazis in the same turn. I'd rather try worn powerstone, mindstone, monolith etc... also more sinergystic with 3sphere.

How are Conduit of Ruin and Sower been for you? Sower seems not really good with so many fetches and little land, Conduit of Ruin seems more interesting as a pseudo-mana source + consistency as a pseudo-tutor (also it's an on-cast effect so even if countered it can tutor for ulamog/koz), but placing monsters on the top of your library seems a way to just get bad draws since you can rarely cast them without posts.

I like Urza's Incubator because it reduces the cost of creatures so that you can spend mana on spells or multiple creatures a turn. You end up not paying or nearly not paying for creatures while holding mana open for spells. Right now, I just need to get some more play time with the list.. Still unsure about Sower but Conduit of Ruin is working well.

Manroe
02-06-2016, 03:14 AM
I agree that this thread should be leaning toward the aggro "Stompy" archetype.
Turbo Eldrazi is a different strategy (a very good one) but not what this one is about.

My current list is:

21 Creatures

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Endbringer
2 Spellskite
4 Reality Smasher

19 Non-creatures

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
2 All Is Dust

24 Lands

4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Vesuva

Sideboard

2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Tsabo's Web
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands and Burn remain the most difficult matchups.
This deck destroys most in Legacy. The format simply can't handle so many large creatures. It's funny to me that people auto-Force Thought-Knot Seer. It's so good.

Please let me know what you guys think!!

I love this deck but 4 of the 16 regular decks at my lgs are burn! Ideas?

bruizar
02-06-2016, 04:16 AM
I love this deck but 4 of the 16 regular decks at my lgs are burn! Ideas?

Sideboard 1 or 2 Ruin Processors. Use the Thought-Knot Seer and Warping Wail to feed the processor. Other than that, I'd try Leyline of Sanctity. You can also go for Sun Droplet.

Manroe
02-06-2016, 04:25 AM
Sideboard 1 or 2 Ruin Processors. Use the Thought-Knot Seer and Warping Wail to feed the processor. Other than that, I'd try Leyline of Sanctity. You can also go for Sun Droplet.

And just pray for no PoP lol

Barook
02-06-2016, 04:59 AM
Sideboard 1 or 2 Ruin Processors. Use the Thought-Knot Seer and Warping Wail to feed the processor. Other than that, I'd try Leyline of Sanctity. You can also go for Sun Droplet.
Leyline might actually be better since it also offers protection against Storm. Legacy Burn normally ignores enchantment removal. Sun Droplet seems slow and only good in multiples.

Also, what's the general gameplan against Sneak and Show? Needle/Revoker may stop Sneack Attack, but S&T into fatty is still game over for the most part. Is Endbringer's combat jamming really enough to put a leash on the deck?

MD.Ghost
02-06-2016, 05:17 AM
Also, what's the general gameplan against Sneak and Show? Needle/Revoker may stop Sneack Attack, but S&T into fatty is still game over for the most part. Is Endbringer's combat jamming really enough to put a leash on the deck?

@Burn, i run 3 Thorn at Side and would also bring in 2 Wastes, it should be fine to only use chalice, Sphere, thorn and only put minimal needed lands on the field, if you have Seer and a little bit Luck 2 lands are enough which will help against burn. They still need to find smash(es) in time vs our prison elements.

@SneakShow, i have 3 Revoker Main which helps vs Sneak Attack and 4 Warping Wail vs Show and Tell (and 2 Endbringer which is very good here and less important 1 Ulamog) together with Seer and other Prison Stuff (which arent good vs the Combo Spells but will help vs Cantrips, Softcounter etc.). Thorn can also help to gain some time G2, remember that they will use Blood Moon against us.

Captain Hammer
02-06-2016, 09:22 AM
Playing cloud posts doesn't automatically make the deck slow. It just gives it a late game as well but it can be just as explosive out of the gate.

Here's my most current list as of 2/6/16

4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Eye of Ugin
3 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
1 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage

4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Kozilek's Channeler
4 Conduit of Ruin

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

2 Endbringer
1 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

I am everybit as confident in my recommendation of Endless One as I was when I recommended Conduit of Ruin. It's done an amazing job smoothing out the curve and gives the deck both a way to stabilize early against fast aggro and yet another game winning bomb against control in the late game.

I've been much happier with Kozilek's Channeler than I was with any of the mana rocks I've tried. It's cost is reduced by Eye of Ugin, Eldrazi Temple and Conduit of Ruin often making it about as cheap as Grim Monolith but with a solid 4/4 body and reusability. It lets you sac Crystal Vein or cast City of Traitors early without having to constrain yourself in terms of mana and enables casting the big Eldrazi that you tutor up with Conduit. It lets you cast bigger Endless One and fuels massive Mimic attacks. It also allowed me to go back down to 26 land.

bruizar
02-06-2016, 03:54 PM
After seeing the pro tour I may have been completely wrong about eldrazi mimic

Philipp2293
02-06-2016, 04:14 PM
Yes, mimic is hot stuff so far for me. T1 Double Mimic from Eye, T2 Thought-Knot Seer, T3 Reality Smasher already happened.

Oxide
02-06-2016, 04:49 PM
i´ve been playing with mimic all the time, and that card is nuts...

Gheizen64
02-06-2016, 04:58 PM
Following the Colorless build from modern, this is a transcript for legacy i guess:

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
2 Spellskite
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Dismember
4 Warping Wail

4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors

Sideboard:

SB: 3 All is dust
SB: 4 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 4 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Spellskite


Endless ones and Eldrazi mimics demand a 4-of of ugins (free creatures pretty gud i heard). Since you're much faster than the lists tested before, having 2 ugins early on is rarely a problem. The sideboard is a complete guess. Again, since this deck is really fast, Trinisphere is often too slow (consider that you have only 6 real sol lands). I'm trying sphere of resistance in its place. As this is legacy, we need some more control for combo, so i run 4 spheres and 4 WW in addition to Chalice. Spellskite is worse here than in modern but it still counter burn/removals, mom, flickerwisps etc.... which i think make it good enough even in legacy.

Need directions for the SB.

EDIT: subbed thorn for sphere, this deck is extremely mana hungry and sphere slow creature deployement too much. If blood moon is a big presence in your meta, play ghost quarters and wastes in place of cavern+traitors, if counters are more of a problem, keep caverns.
Mimic and Eye + Endless one jesus. We got an actual non-blue deck top tier in the format methinks.

bruizar
02-06-2016, 05:14 PM
I'd play at least 1 eldrazi bomb in the sideboard for grindy matches so you can out class other decks with Eye of Ugin. Kozilek/Ulamog 1.0 if you expect imperial painter, otherwise ulamog 2.0 or even a world breaker maybe.

Gheizen64
02-06-2016, 05:14 PM
I'd play at least 1 eldrazi bomb in the sideboard for grindy matches so you can out class other decks with Eye of Ugin.

1 Sower for the mirror, 1 NUlamog? Dunno.

bruizar
02-06-2016, 05:19 PM
Lightning edited :-)


1 Sower for the mirror, 1 NUlamog? Dunno.

My thinking was that World Breaker provides exile vs RG lands and blows up ensnaring bridge/counterbalance. Not sure if good enough as it requires a cavern of souls in play. Void Winnower is also a good idea against so many decks. I would play at least one Nulamog and MAYBE another utility creature, but 1 top end slot is probably enough. Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridge look like the natural predators of eldrazi. As it currently stands, your list auto-scoops pre and post board against a bridge

TTX
02-06-2016, 05:27 PM
I'm still not convinced that Endless One is better than Endbringer.
I like the Sphere of Resistance instead of Trinisphere.
Mother of Runes is powerless against us...but I still agree Spellskite has its place. Against most decks that Relic is good against, I'd rather have Chalice at 1. Therefore Tormod's Crypt is better.
4 Eye of Ugin seems kind of excessive, but I cannot deny the reduction potential.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

josch6083
02-06-2016, 05:39 PM
I think Trinisphere is too much. 4 Chalice have to be enough. And since I´m a big fan of warping wail, mindstone and eldrazi mimic, I don´t want to slow myself down. Even chalice would be more expensive. I dont like that idea.

2 days ago I didnt know what to think about endless one, but now I´m thinking that this could be a good one. The only thing is, you have to play at least 3 Eye of Ugin. Imagine a deck with 4 Eldrazi mimics and 4 endless one. First turn you could put as many as you got on the board. Nice thought. They´re good against early threats (e.g. death and taxes or goblins) and they probably eat some counters that dont counter our real stuff.:smile:

Gheizen64
02-06-2016, 06:12 PM
Thorn is better than shpere in this deck btw. Sphere ruin the creature curve way too much, and elves should be favored already anyway with 4 WW and 4 CotV + 4 Thought Knot +2 Dismember.

EDIT: land murder us. 4 relics are ur only weapon.

MGB
02-06-2016, 07:12 PM
Simian Spirit Guide is really nice tech in the Pro Tour decks.

I could even see playing SSG in the Legacy version. One of the nice bonuses in this deck is dead Matter Reshaper -> SSG later in the game when you don't need SSG to ramp.

Gheizen64
02-06-2016, 07:40 PM
I don't think SSG is taht important when we can play 4 tombs, since its purpose is often to cast Chalice T1 which tomb does without the card disadvantage.

MGB
02-06-2016, 07:44 PM
I don't think SSG is taht important when we can play 4 tombs, since its purpose is often to cast Chalice T1 which tomb does without the card disadvantage.

4 SSG + 4 Tomb + 2-4 City is even more ways to get Turn 1 Chalice.

Barook
02-06-2016, 08:14 PM
EDIT: land murder us. 4 relics are ur only weapon.
Is Relic better than Surgical in that regard?

I think your MD is a good starting point for Legacy if you want to port the Modern variant.

Not so sure about the SB, though. We need to figure out first what the deck's weaknesses are and then address them in the SB.

TTX
02-06-2016, 08:25 PM
Lands is by far the worst matchup. Most other decks are inferior to our disruption and clock.
I don't understand Surgical Extraction or Relic of Progenitus if you are banking on Chalice at 1. Tormod's Crypt seems just better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

josch6083
02-07-2016, 02:16 AM
This is my today-list. I would appreciate feedback

creatures:
4x eldrazi mimic
4x thought knot seer
4x reality smasher
3x endless one
2x endbringer
1x Kozilek Great distortion
1y Ulamog, ceaseless hunger

spells;
4x chalice of the void
4x warping wail
2x grim monolith
4x mind stone
2x all is dust

land:
4x glimmerpost
4x cloudpost
4x eldrazi temple
3x eye of ugin
4x ancient tomb
3x cavern of souls
2x vesuva
1x thespians stage

Thoughts:
I want to play a 4th endless one but dont know what to cut.
I´m not sure about the 2 vesuva. Now that I´m playing 3 eye of ugin, vesuva is bit risky. Alternatives??? City of traitors in my opinion is not consistent enough. Maybe Crystal vein. I played that one at the tournament last week.
What is the best graveyard-hate card: Faerie mcabre, surgical extraction or tormods crypt? crypt seems a little bit slow. surgical takes care of the remaining wastelands. thats great. faerie mccabre cant be countered and is at instant speed. It´s hard to make a decision.

Thanks for your help

Philipp2293
02-07-2016, 02:18 AM
How about a 4th Cavern and just one Vesuva? I feel in so many MUs I want a Cavern no matter what.

Einherjer
02-07-2016, 01:15 PM
As I've been playing 25+ matches against different builds of Eldrazi in the last week I thought I could give a little bit of input. I've just been piloting Miracles and Esper so I can only offer some tips on these matches. But I've found that having at least one really big Eldrazi for the late game can be outstandingly important if the game doesn't go the way you'd like it to (read: Chalice gets countered, Swords + Snapcaster etc). As you have access to Eye of Ugin it's pretty much a no brainer but I still see lists not running any of the big creatures, which is exactly what UWx wants to happen. So I'd really do that.

Just wanted to let you know. Good luck brewing with this deck! :)

Greetings

bruizar
02-07-2016, 03:06 PM
I'd like to mention that Painter's Servant hoses the Eldrazi Temple and Eye of Ugin as well as Ruination Guide and Vile Aggregate

Philipp2293
02-07-2016, 03:30 PM
I can absolutely second what Einherjer said, in testing the only games I loose to Miracles are the ones where I don't find Eye or one of the big Eldrazis. So even if you are on the aggressive side, since you already run Eyes anyway, the cost of one or two slots are far lower than the upside.

bruizar
02-08-2016, 02:38 AM
Anddddddd.... Painter's Servant tripled in price. Good thing I bought 8 foils and 14 regular ones yesterday :)

hofzge
02-08-2016, 03:18 AM
It is funny that as one who proposed to play an aggressive deck this thread turned from Stompy to ramp and after the PT again to stompy.

Also we should really split the two decks along the manabase into two threads:
Eldrazi Stompy = City of Traitors and Wasteland manabase
Eldrazi Ramp = Post Manabase and probably multiple Eldrazi Titans

As this thread is called Eldrazi Stompy I think the aggressive version naturally belongs here.

Here is a version with a Eldrazi Titan mixed in for some late game:
4x Eldrazi Mimic
3x Endless One
4x Lodestone Golem
3x Matter Reshaper
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
4x Wasteland
1x Wastes

4x Chalice of the Void
3x Mox Diamond
3x Trinisphere

Sideboard (15)
1x All Is Dust
4x Faerie Macabre
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Warping Wail

korstructure
02-08-2016, 03:32 AM
Agree on the Stompy vs Post split - I'm not saying that Post decks are unreasonable/unfeasible - simply that their curve and focus are different enough that they should have a separate thread.

As for your list, I also arrived at 4x Faerie Macabre in the side. I considered Leyline of the Void and Tormod's Crypt but I think that, since we play Chalice, Faerie Macabre hits a wider swath of decks with which we need help.

Unsure of Jitte, though. What matchups is it for? I like All is Dust against any "wide" decks.


It is funny that as one who proposed to play an aggressive deck this thread turned from Stompy to ramp and after the PT again to stompy.

Also we should really split the two decks along the manabase into two threads:
Eldrazi Stompy = City of Traitors and Wasteland manabase
Eldrazi Ramp = Post Manabase and probably multiple Eldrazi Titans

As this thread is called Eldrazi Stompy I think the aggressive version naturally belongs here.

Here is a version with a Eldrazi Titan mixed in for some late game:
4x Eldrazi Mimic
3x Endless One
4x Lodestone Golem
3x Matter Reshaper
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
4x Wasteland
1x Wastes

4x Chalice of the Void
3x Mox Diamond
3x Trinisphere

Sideboard (15)
1x All Is Dust
4x Faerie Macabre
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Warping Wail

bruizar
02-08-2016, 03:34 AM
It is funny that as one who proposed to play an aggressive deck this thread turned from Stompy to ramp and after the PT again to stompy.

Also we should really split the two decks along the manabase into two threads:
Eldrazi Stompy = City of Traitors and Wasteland manabase
Eldrazi Ramp = Post Manabase and probably multiple Eldrazi Titans

As this thread is called Eldrazi Stompy I think the aggressive version naturally belongs here.

Here is a version with a Eldrazi Titan mixed in for some late game:
4x Eldrazi Mimic
3x Endless One
4x Lodestone Golem
3x Matter Reshaper
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
4x Wasteland
1x Wastes

4x Chalice of the Void
3x Mox Diamond
3x Trinisphere

Sideboard (15)
1x All Is Dust
4x Faerie Macabre
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Warping Wail


If you go for Mox Diamond, I'd go for a playset because you want to have it early and top-decking them sucks. It's really only good to power out explosive draws.
If you go for Lodestone Golem, trinisphere is the way to go. If no Lodestone Golems, I'd go for Sphere of Resistance.

And I'd go for 4 Eye of Ugin. You have Mox Diamond to get rid of extras and you really want to have Eye and cast multiple eldrazi in a single turn. Other than that the list looks really solid.

So, I'd make these changes:

-1 Wastes
-1 Wasteland
-1 Trinisphere or Lodestone Golem
+2 Eye of Ugin
+1 Mox Diamond

OR

+1 Eye of Ugin
+1 Mox Diamond

-1 Wastes
-1 Wasteland

hofzge
02-08-2016, 04:02 AM
Thanks for the good input!
I think that 4 Eye is just too much - whikle you can get rid of them, you still cannot play any artifact with them, so 3 is ok. 4 Moxen on the other hand might be right. I am just very wary of playing 23 Lands and 4 Moxen.

Let's agree on:
4x Eldrazi Mimic
3x Endless One
3x Lodestone Golem
3x Matter Reshaper
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
4x Wasteland

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
3x Trinisphere

Sideboard (15)
1x All Is Dust
4x Faerie Macabre
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Warping Wail

Quasim0ff
02-08-2016, 04:32 AM
Every single Eldrazi deck should start with the following:

4x Eye of Ugin.

That card is busted, not really even up for debate.

Honorik
02-08-2016, 04:50 AM
Please don't tell me, that this deck could possible shake the legacy metagame the same way it did with Modern...:eyebrow: I don't believe it.

MD.Ghost
02-08-2016, 05:00 AM
Every single Eldrazi deck should start with the following:

4x Eye of Ugin.

That card is busted, not really even up for debate.

And you don’t play the deck or are blind enough to see that this is not modern.

Playset is way to much, if you get wasted, mooned, draw more than one and see chalice, Wail and other non Eldrazi in hand you would see what I mean.

It depends on the Version of the deck, but 2-3 should be fine.

For me we all talk about 3 playstyles here.

Aggro Eldrazi: With Mimic, no Postlands, thorn over trinisphere (because you want to abuse eye with mimic, Reshaper and thorn works nice with Tomb and City Turn 1etc.), i dont see any Titan here because you will not Ramp into anyone and the lands arent good enough for that. I like 1 Phyrexian Metamorph here for more Seer and Smasher (mimic will also like the idea)

Midrange Eldrazi, Cloudpost mana should be fine, you must decide between Mimic or Reshaper and if you want Mana Artifacts, Trinisphere is good here, 1 Titan should work well with the mana (eye as a tutor should also work good with postmana), 2 Endbringer are also ok here.

Eldrazi Ramp, clearly Postlands, 6-8 Manastones, no Mimic (you want go bigger or use better Creatures), 2 Titans should work well here, 1 think this Version should also include 1 Conduit of Ruin and 2 Oblivion Sower for Ramp, Sower will also Block Smashers in a mirror.

I testet over 50 Matchups (mostly with midrange) now and it seems that I will switch to the Ramp Team, because my only real problems so far are Manadenial and Moon (both will wreck the Aggro build) and I think the Ramp Version will win the Mirror Match (and will also work against other big Creature Stuff like MUD, 12 Post).

We should generally avoid the Pro Tour hype, this is not modern and at legacy it is way more difficult to build up a good deck against the field (and play it good enough as well).

Echelon
02-08-2016, 05:00 AM
Please don't tell me, that this deck could possible shake the legacy metagame the same way it did with Modern...:eyebrow: I don't believe it.

I don't think so. In legacy it still has to battle Wasteland, Daze & FoW. And Miracles is still perfectly capable of answering any creature. The fun police seems perfectly capable of keeping this deck in check.

MD.Ghost
02-08-2016, 05:07 AM
I don't think so. In legacy it still has to battle Wasteland, Daze & FoW. And Miracles is still perfectly capable of answering any creature. The fun police seems perfectly capable of keeping this deck in check.

Miracle has a hard time vs this deck. My midrange build stands 5:1 in Matchups vs Miracle now. Unless Miracle uses more Moon, OR Stuff like Humility it should be a good matchup, even more if you follow the advice from one of the best miracle players (see Page 8 ;)) and play a build with more bombs for long drawn out games.

Echelon
02-08-2016, 05:16 AM
How does it fare vs. the various Delver flavours?

Eldariel
02-08-2016, 05:44 AM
How about a slight green leaning? Crop Rotation seems exceptional here, raising the likelihood of an early Eye as well as converting extra Eyes into other useful lands and trading fairly well against Wastelands. I think Eye is strong enough that it just might be worth it to bend over backwards to enable that card. All the superfast hands the deck can produce rely on Eye producing a ton of colorless and making for a horde of free/cheap dudes, and even the worst-case scenario has it generally as a 2-mana land for casting the higher-ups. It would certainly be a different shell that probably doesn't want Trini (Chalice is probably still fine; you are generally less hurt by it than whomever you're facing even if you cast it for 1, and it's easy enough to get Crop Rotation out of the way), but it could be potentially very powerful.

bruizar
02-08-2016, 06:26 AM
Thanks for the good input!
I think that 4 Eye is just too much - whikle you can get rid of them, you still cannot play any artifact with them, so 3 is ok. 4 Moxen on the other hand might be right. I am just very wary of playing 23 Lands and 4 Moxen.

Let's agree on:
4x Eldrazi Mimic
3x Endless One
3x Lodestone Golem
3x Matter Reshaper
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
4x Wasteland

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
3x Trinisphere

Sideboard (15)
1x All Is Dust
4x Faerie Macabre
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Warping Wail

This is something I'd sleeve up. As far as a stompy list goes, this list looks very capable of winning tournaments. I wouldn't change anything in the main and the sideboard looks good too.

Gheizen64
02-08-2016, 06:32 AM
I know it's a mess already, but for reference it was an UR list that won the PT on the back of fully abusing Eye of ugin with many low cost eldrazis, in particular Vile Aggregate and Eldrazi Skyspawners. Plus, being RU means you can run some more varied sideboard cards.

bruizar
02-08-2016, 06:36 AM
I know it's a mess already, but for reference it was an UR list that won the PT on the back of fully abusing Eye of ugin with many low cost eldrazis, in particular Vile Aggregate and Eldrazi Skyspawners. Plus, being RU means you can run some more varied sideboard cards.

Top end Drowner of Hope and Eldrazi Obligator messed up a lot of combat math. I'm not sure how it would fair in legacy, but it would def lose from Imperial Painter. In this build you really need 4 Eye of Ugin.

hofzge
02-08-2016, 09:27 AM
Top end Drowner of Hope and Eldrazi Obligator messed up a lot of combat math. I'm not sure how it would fair in legacy, but it would def lose from Imperial Painter. In this build you really need 4 Eye of Ugin.

That may well be true in Modern, but in Legacy you get 2 additional (colorless( Sol lands and thus I think the discussion about colored builds is kind of moot as the power of this deck is its explosive manabase.

Sisyphos
02-08-2016, 09:44 AM
In regards to mana artifacts, I think we really need to establish which of the 4 options is the best route to go...

Mind Stone - Cheap and cantrips so it's not a horrible late game but makes very little mana
Grim Monolith - Cheap and Explosive but one time use and crappy late game
Thran Dynamo - Explosive and reusable but crappy late game and not cheap
Hedron Archive - Not Cheap but it's semiexplosive, reusable and draws two so it's okay late game

Looking at the comparison, I'm actually leaning most strongly towards Hedron Archive over the other three alternatives.

There will be no "best route" to go. Which ramp spell is best is always dependant on the other 56 cards used in the list. All options accelerate mana, but in vastly different ways. You need to consider what you want to ramp into.

If your curve stops at 5 (Reality Smasher) (or even 6 for 1-2 Endbringers), neiter Thran Dynamo nor Hedron Archive are ideal. Thran Dynamo gets you from 4 to 7 (or 8 counting the land drop next turn, 9 with a sol land). Hedron Archive gets you from 4 to 6 (or 7/8, see above). The Mud lists that play Thran Dynamo in addition to Grim Monolith usually do so because they play Ugin or Karn, which require exactly the 8 or 7 mana that Thran Dynamo or Hedron Archive can achieve. Those decks also always play Grim Monolith and never play Mindstone because Grim Monolith allows for T1 Metalworker/Trinisphere or T2 Forgemaster/Wurmcoil, a benefit that greatly outweighs the one-shot-nature as the decks are build for speed.

If your curve does not stop at 6 but goes up to 10 (Ulamog/Kozilek) or 15 (Emrakul) and you want to get there not once but multiple times a game, Thran Dynamo or Hedron Archive (less acceleration but more utility) get much more exciting.

It also depends on your mana base. Lists including 12Post setups will have a much easier time to get to the 4 mana needed for Thran Dynamo or Hedron Archive. If you play a high number of Eye of Ugins, Eldrazi Temple and City of Traitors, you will have a much harder time to get to 4 mana quickly, therefor making Grim Monolith (if you need a lot of mana once) or Mindstone (less mana more utility) potentially better choices.

Gheizen64
02-08-2016, 10:00 AM
Since i'm running 4 eyes and 4 mimics, Shrieker seems a viable card to play again, especially as spellskite isn't as good here as it is in modern. And 3 urborgs + 4 caverns are enough to play a couple of shriekers in the place of spellskite. Also, wasteland strangler as a SB option is still really good against BUG, since it can get you easily a 3 for 1 (counter visions, kill minion, play minion of your own) for B.

Minniehajj
02-08-2016, 01:34 PM
Didn't see this posted here, but Paul Lynch and Michael Scheffenacker did really well with this at the Snapcasters store:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zZzRmk8G8k

iostream
02-08-2016, 02:39 PM
Didn't see this posted here, but Paul Lynch and Michael Scheffenacker did really well with this at the Snapcasters store:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zZzRmk8G8k
Well, that was really cool. Didn't think to cut all the fast mana like Mox Diamond. I'm also shocked that they said Endless One was one of the best cards in the deck, as I imagined a stupid vanilla beater wouldn't really do anything in a format as fast and tricky as Legacy is. I wonder if Thorn of Amethyst is better than Trinisphere given how few non-creature spells are there and the dis-synergy with Eye of Ugin's cost reduction effect.

T-101
02-08-2016, 03:12 PM
Thorn could very well be right. I've been playing the deck for a few days, and while I don't have extensive experience yet, the 3 non-Eldrazi mana require for Trinisphere can be quite awkward. It also semi-hoses Eye, because after Trinisphere, Eye doesn't synergize with Mimic, Reshaper, and only shaves 1 from Thought-Knot.

That said, for all the awkwardness Trinisphere causes us, it is always much worse for the opponent... I mean, this is Legacy, and it's Trinisphere.

@Minniehajj, that video is cool, but something leapt out at me. Dude says that casting Metamorph copying Emrakul gets you the extra turn. That can't possibly be correct, can it?

Minniehajj
02-08-2016, 03:17 PM
@Minniehajj, that video is cool, but something leapt out at me. Dude says that casting Metamorph copying Emrakul gets you the extra turn. That can't possibly be correct, can it?

Correct, this point is wrong in the video and the player found out later that this was not, in fact, the case. You are casting Phyrexian Metamorph, not Emrakul, as Metamorph only becomes Emrakul after it's already been cast.

T-101
02-08-2016, 03:25 PM
Correct, this point is wrong in the video and the player found out later that this was not, in fact, the case. You are casting Phyrexian Metamorph, not Emrakul, as Metamorph only becomes Emrakul after it's already been cast.

Cool, thanks for the clarification.

I've not been dead set on a list so far, but the one in the video looks pretty cool. I haven't been running Revoker or Equipment so far, but I've been feeling like Jitte would be awesome for this deck, and Revoker almost always has something painful to name and looks right in line with the speedy disruption plan.

I'm thinking I'll cut that Metamorph for another Reshaper or something (looks like only 1 Reshaper in the video). Will try to write a mini-tournament report here by tomorrow.

iostream
02-08-2016, 03:27 PM
Thorn could very well be right. I've been playing the deck for a few days, and while I don't have extensive experience yet, the 3 non-Eldrazi mana require for Trinisphere can be quite awkward. It also semi-hoses Eye, because after Trinisphere, Eye doesn't synergize with Mimic, Reshaper, and only shaves 1 from Thought-Knot.

That said, for all the awkwardness Trinisphere causes us, it is always much worse for the opponent... I mean, this is Legacy, and it's Trinisphere.Yeah, without any Mox Diamond, Simian Spirit Guide, etc., we can't ever cast it turn 1 and frequently can't cast it on turn 2, which is a serious problem; these lock pieces need to come down early to be maximally effective. Also, multiple Thorns are good, whereas multiple 3balls are useless. In the video, he said both Trinisphere and Chalice are kind of dead versus D+T, so going with Thorn won't create any huge problem there, but I imagine Elves becomes seriously worse when we choose to run Thorn over Sphere.

iostream
02-08-2016, 03:28 PM
Cool, thanks for the clarification.

I've not been dead set on a list so far, but the one in the video looks pretty cool. I haven't been running Revoker or Equipment so far, but I've been feeling like Jitte would be awesome for this deck, and Revoker almost always has something painful to name and looks right in line with the speedy disruption plan.

I'm thinking I'll cut that Metamorph for another Reshaper or something (looks like only 1 Reshaper in the video). Will try to write a mini-tournament report here by tomorrow.He said Reshaper was useless and should be another Metamorph or the fourth City, so you probably should think twice about that.

T-101
02-08-2016, 03:40 PM
He said Reshaper was useless and should be another Metamorph or the fourth City, so you probably should think twice about that.

Reshaper hasn't been as awesome as he looks, but it's still decent-to-good. The thing I like most about it is its cost. Still got time to finalize a list for tonight, I'll think about it.

Minniehajj
02-08-2016, 03:58 PM
Cool, thanks for the clarification.

I've not been dead set on a list so far, but the one in the video looks pretty cool. I haven't been running Revoker or Equipment so far, but I've been feeling like Jitte would be awesome for this deck, and Revoker almost always has something painful to name and looks right in line with the speedy disruption plan.

I'm thinking I'll cut that Metamorph for another Reshaper or something (looks like only 1 Reshaper in the video). Will try to write a mini-tournament report here by tomorrow.

The Revoker and Equipment is a nod to Shops, the vintage deck that the eldrazi iterations have taken a lot of inspiration from, and they always do well in shops decks.

Gheizen64
02-08-2016, 06:20 PM
Just for refernce, my latest testing list


4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Kozilek's Shrieker
1 Endbringer

3 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
4 Warping Wail

4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors

SB: 4 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Endbringer
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 Spatial Contortion

josch6083
02-08-2016, 06:40 PM
Hey guys,

just a few impressions. I´m with this deck since the first day "oath of the gatewatch" came out. I tried a lot of different styles (with post and without it, with endless one and witout, cavern of souls in and out ...)

the list posted in the video is very interesting and very close to what I came up with. I just got a few changes:

First I would cut Trinisphere. As already mentioned we got no Grim monolith to push it out turn 1 and more important our eye of ugin is no longer that good. I got 3 Thorns in my sideboard against Storm. Together with Phyrexian revoker and Chalice this should be enough.
I also cut Matter reshaper. Just not good enough. For these 4 slots I put in 4 Mindstones. I had these in my eldrazi decks since the first day and I never wanted to miss them. The first turn they ramp and later you just cycle them. And also very important. It is Bloodmoon resistent. If your opponent puts a bloodmoon into play, 70% of our deck is uncastable. By playing Mindstones you got additional coloreless mana.

Second I play 2 Crystal vein instead of the 4. Cavern of souls and the 1 Urborg. Seems like it gives me a little bit more speed at the beginnning.

Third I play 1 Ulamog ceaseless Hunger for the late game. for example to remove a ensnaring bridge, Jace and other nerving stuff. Therefor I cut the sword.

the further changes you can see in my list below:

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought Knot seer
4 Reality smasher
4 endless one
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Endbringer
1 ulamog ceaseless hunger

4 Mindstone
4 Chalice of the void
4 warping wail
1 all is dust

4 ancient tomb
4 wasteland
4 eldrazi temple
3 eye of ugin
3 city of traitors
3 cavern of souls
2 crystal vein

its pretty consistent. hope you guys like it. I would appreciate feedback.

Gheizen64
02-08-2016, 07:14 PM
For what its worth i like the list a lot :P

Even if i don't personally like traitors in lists with ulamogs and slightly higher cmcs. I could see 1 or 2 traitors but not more. Mindstone is something i'll probably try again. Those 10-12 flex spots are really crucial but also really hard to get imho. I liked a lot the sideboard from the video tho', it's probably the right one with the possibility of 1 nulamog to put in there if you run mind stones and a slightly higher average cmc deck.

ChemicalBurns
02-08-2016, 09:00 PM
Hey everyone! Just started jamming this after the PT debuted it in Modern. Basically, I'm keen for it to get banned there so I can lap up all the scrappy cards that people sell off and jam this in Legacy, heh! This version is basically a Modern port with adaptations for Legacy, of course. I think in terms of what version this is (as outlined in MD.Ghost's categories), it's an Aggro list through and through. It has felt pretty strong and consistently does what it needs to do, unless it gets the generic Stompy topdecks that happen in the late game (which is to be expected).

Creatures: (25)
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer

Non-Creature Spells: (11)
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Warping Wail
1 Dismember

Lands: (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard: (15)
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spellskite
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Endbringer
1 Cursed Totem

So thoughts on this list so far:
- "You run too many lands!" so people have said. I think 24 lands is reasonable, since you do want to supply Diamonds with lands and the curve, despite how low it seems, does cap out at five. Wasteland/Port etc. are also a thing, and can really cripple you, so I've erred on a higher amount. That being said, I am no expert (in Dragon Stompy I have played 20 lands before, but that's with 4 SSG and 4 Chrome Mox) and I'm keen to hear what the best land count would be for this list.
- "You should run 4 Eye of Ugin" so people have said. Unlike the more midrange versions, I think this thought has merit, though I'm not sure which lands to cut from the mana base. This deck prides itself on its explosive draws which Eye is conducive to, and excess Eyes pitch to Diamond as well. That beng said, multiple Eyes in hand do not cast Chalice or Revoker and in general increase the high-variance nature of this list.
- The weakest of all the creatures is Matter Reshaper. The card is fine, and actual quite nice in fair BUG matchups where he can get in some points and then chump a Goyf and get value, but against white-based removal, combo etc. he has often been boarded out. I am considering other Eldrazi/colourless creatures for this slot. That being said, he's still fine.
- Endless One has been great, and I've never been sad to see him.
- Mimic is an awful Goblin Piker topdeck, but against certain combo matchups I feel he is necessary to give you explosive enough draws.
- Revoker has been great. Having more turn two plays that can also be a soft-lock and just a general flexible answer is great. I'm basically never sad to see him in my opening hand.
- Endbringer is the only flex-slot Eldrazi I've been really utilising as a tutorable Eye target. That being said, I've never cast him yet in my limited testing. In fact, in this version I've never activated Eye at all! He seems great as a sideboard tutor target for grindy matchups, but maybe in the main, to limit my curve, I could just make him a second Dismember.
- Wail has been continually great and I might try and find room for 4 in the 75. I want some number of Dismember too, as kiling Magus of the Moon, Painter's Servant, Batterskulls and Tarmogoyfs etc. is important.
- The sideboard is a hodgepodge and I would love suggestions. Thorns, Bombs, Crypt and Skite have pulled their weight so far (Skite is mainly to protect Chalice) and I think the extra removal is valid too. Crucible, extra Endbringer and Totem may be too cute and just become other things.

Some changes I might consider:
- I want to try Bearer of Silence. Being able to remove a singular threat has been hard with only Wail and Dismember. This may replace Matter Reshaper. That being said, we only have 2 Urborg, 4 Diamond and 3 Cavern to cast him effectively (I might up Caverns to four if I incorporate him). Is this enough? Nonetheless, the card seems powerful.
- Is running less lands and just trying Simian Spirit Guide an idea? I can't say I've flooded too much, Stompy decks tend to at times anyway, but as I've mentioned, people have been irked by my high-ish land count.
- Instead of Cavern and maybe some Wastelands, is running a manland package viable? I like Factory as threats that can keep clocking while you whiff on draw steps. I find myself always a few points short of victory when I lose, so having extra pressure would be nice.
- I don't like the idea of a Wastes in the deck since we can't actually go find it, but Blood Moon wrecks our face. In fact, the whole Painter deck does >_< I think we should just concede these matchups since they're not too popular though.
- Is there more fatties I should run? I hate upping the curve, but having more late game bombs can be good in grindy matchups. I've been modest and only have the two Endbringers, but Oblvion Sower and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger were in my initial drafts.
- Sideboard needs some tinkering still. I think I want to incorporate some equipment like Jitte over the Totem - as this covers relevant matchups while still being just a generally strong card.

And my thoughts on matchups:
Favourable:
- Most combo decks (T1 Chalice into T2 TKS is dirty, Revoker, Thorns out of board... Yeah we're good.)
- Miracles (same deal, Smasher demands a Terminus alone)
- Stoneblade decks (you can lose to a fast Batterskull, but Wail, Revoker, TKS and Dismember give you multiple avenues of defeating that)

Medium:
- Delver decks. This is mainly due to my list's poor removal suit. You can also get Daze and Forced out of the game while the Delver goes unchecked, like most Stompy lists, and Wasteland really hurts us. On the play though T1 Chalice is rough, per usual.
- BUG variants. Chalice can get Decayed and our threats can get quickly outclassed by Goyfs. Basically you need to Smash through or you're in trouble. Lili can also be troublesome as a way to easily kill Smasher. Reshaper shines here though, while Mimic is garbagey.

Poor:
- Non-blue midrange. They usually don't care too much about Chalice on 1 and have threats which can outclass our non-Smasher ones. Having more fatties would be nice here, as then we can go bigger.
- Death & Taxes. Their mana denial cripples us absurdly and Vial gets around Chalice on two, while they don't care too much about Chalice on 1.

Anyway, thanks for hearing me ramble on; I would love to hear your thoughts on the list. The deck is absurdly fun though, and I've played most Stompy variants and this one has felt like it has the ability to be at times by far the most broken and explosive.

Thanks!

iatee
02-08-2016, 09:21 PM
I'm not sure D+T is a bad matchup. These decks play more goyf-like creatures than actual goyf decks and D+T has limited removal. Chalice on 1 is very good on the play, and Revoker shuts off whatever you want it to. Unlike MUD, mana denial doesn't seem as strong here because you can play a solid game w/ 2-3 lands out. Warping Wail kills everything. Mom does nothing and Thalia does very little.

ChemicalBurns
02-08-2016, 11:03 PM
I think this is definitely the case for more midrange variants, but my list at least has been having trouble since it's centred around the smaller threats. Even a simple Thalia can brick a board of Mimics and Reshaper, and the Mimics are hard to grow when they're Waste-Porting you. That being said, if any large threat resolves I'm sure you win (I won when I got to five mana for Smasher, but otherwise they reached their endgame of Batterskull and fliers faster). Especially if said threat is an Endbringer or something.

And iatee, as a fellow D&Ter like yourself, I also know the power of Revoker in this matchup. I think it's definitely something that may help push it a little more favourably. To be honest, I've only faced D&T a few times with the deck, and I'd say they got stronger-than-average draws (Vial early to make my Chalice poor + heavy mana denial) so maybe results are a bit skewed. If they had a non-Vial draw or we get to Chalice @ 1 on the play, perhaps the matchup easily swings into Eldrazi's favour.

Zapp
02-09-2016, 12:20 AM
has anybody put any thought/testing into guardian idol yet?
replacing grim monolith/mindstones.

Tokugawa
02-09-2016, 12:35 AM
DnT has 3-4 MD flickerwisp which could deny Chalices.

ChemicalBurns
02-09-2016, 01:13 AM
And kill Endless One.

T-101
02-09-2016, 01:18 AM
Welp, I said I'd write up something after my event tonight.

Long story short, crash and burn.

I played 71/75 from the video at the top of this page. -1 Sword of Fire and Ice, -1 Phyrexian Metamorph, -2 Wasteland, +1 Umezawa's Jitte (yes, 2nd one maindeck), +1 Matter Reshaper, +1 Eye of Ugin, +1 City of Traitors.

Round 1 vs BUG Delver

G1 - I lost the roll. I kept a sketchy 7, only 1 double land (City). He plays Deathrite, I go City -> Revoker for Deathrite. He plays Goyf, I play Chalice for 1, miss 2nd land drop. He plays Hymn, I scoop in response, hoping he'll think I'm on MUD.

I'm not sure if he's Delver or Shardless, but I bring in 2x Dismember, 1x Spatial Contortion, bring out 2x Endbringer and something else.

G2 - I keep Eye, 2x Endless One, Mimic, Revoker, Ancient Tomb, Warping Wail. I play 6 power worth of stuff on turn 1, he plays Delver. I Wail the Delver, crash in for 6. He plays Deathrite, I attack for 6, then Revoke the Deathrite. He scoops.

G3 - I keep a hand with 2x Eye, small creatures, Ancient Tomb. He plays Delver, I lead with Eye, Mimic, hoping he Wastes my Eye. He flips Delver with Golgari Charm, attacks, Wastelands me. I play Tomb, Revoker for Liliana of the Veil, attack with Mimic. He plays Goyf, and I start drawing a bunch of Reality Smashers, but a 2nd Wasteland keeps me off 5 mana, and Golgari Charm wipes my board.

Round 2 vs UW Death and Taxes

Playing against a friend, and I know her deck.

G1 - I lose the roll, keep 3 Endless Ones, Ancient Tomb, Eldrazi Temple, Warping Wail, Thought-Knot. I draw another Warping Wail, which I think will be awesome against DnT. I start deploying big Endless Ones, but Batterskull keeps her in the game. After Stoneforge, she has Mirran Crusader, the double-strike granting Soulbond guy, and Geist. Those guys are 2/2s, and Warping Wail does nothing. I end up scooping to save time.

I board out Chalice and Trinisphere for Dismember, Contortion, Ratchetbomb, and Endbringer. Not sure if bringing out Chalice is right, as it can hose a hand that relies on Vial, and it gets Sword to Plowshares, but removal seemed very appealing.

G2 - I have another decent hand, start Thought-Knoting and Revoking, get more Warping Wails, but have no targets for the Wails. I get clobbered by double-striking Geist of Saint Traft and Soulbond guy, with Swords and Batterskulls on the table.

Round 3 I get the bye, and with no chance for prize, I decide to leave :(

I feel like I had a couple bad/not great match-ups. Wasteland can be a huge problem. This deck really wants to play against combo decks so bad. Blue Death and Taxes randomly having a bunch of 2/2s instead of 1/Xs or X/1s felt kind of unlucky, but I'm not sure how this deck does against regular DnT. I would imagine were usually great, because our creatures are mega-badasses, and Mother of Runes does nothing, but I haven't actually played against a classic build with this deck.

Kinda bummed that the deck played so miserably, but I'm eager to play the deck again. The casual games I have played with my previous build were awesome, and I can't help but think there is actual power here.

Wasteland is a gargantuan problem. Not sure what to do about that. Can't really play Needle in a Chalice of the Void deck. I guess we just man up and accept that the card is good against us. One thing that I noticed in my games was that I never wanted to use my own Wastelands. That's probably a side effect of the deck being so hungry for mana against opposing Wastelands. Against certain decks, I can see how Chalice -> Trinisphere -> Big Guy or 2 -> Wasteland can be very strong, but at that point, Wasting them might just be "win more." I might try Crystal Veins next time.

I realize there's not a ton of valuable information here, but I was planning to write something up before the tournament, so I did.

MD.Ghost
02-09-2016, 02:05 AM
How does it fare vs. the various Delver flavours?

Works good so far - BUG Delver seemed to be the best version against this deck, because they can play midrange very well and they have decay, hymn, liliana, gofy along with the wasteland and fast delver stuff. Overall im still positive against Delver. (which my midrange version)


Well, that was really cool. Didn't think to cut all the fast mana like Mox Diamond. I'm also shocked that they said Endless One was one of the best cards in the deck, as I imagined a stupid vanilla beater wouldn't really do anything in a format as fast and tricky as Legacy is. I wonder if Thorn of Amethyst is better than Trinisphere given how few non-creature spells are there and the dis-synergy with Eye of Ugin's cost reduction effect.

Mox Diamond should always paired with 1-2 Crucible, this will address one of the weakest points: Wasteland and will also work very well with City, multiple Eyes etc.

Endless One is great as mentioned a lot, he is on of the guys that can grow bigger than Gofy, Knight or a Smasher in the Mirror. Sure he will die to decay (see weakness vs BGx Decks), but on the other hand he will also be a king with Eye etc. - play 2-4 of him.

Thorn should be main at any aggro build. Trinisphere is not good enough with Eye+Mimic Plan and the builds also run City so getting Thorn turn 1 seems strong enough. It will also makes your opponent to think about using Wasteland ;)


Reshaper hasn't been as awesome as he looks, but it's still decent-to-good. The thing I like most about it is its cost. Still got time to finalize a list for tonight, I'll think about it.

Reshaper is very good against non White stuff, i think he gets better if you play more midrange or ramp because he will buy some time (and can ramp into land, manastones) and is better alone than Mimic. I like him vs BGx and Burn (stops every Creature and can die into thorn/sphere^^).


has anybody put any thought/testing into guardian idol yet?
replacing grim monolith/mindstones.

Thought about it. I think you could test it in a Mind Stone Slot - tapped into play is ok, because you ramp only for the following turn (unless Grim wich can ramp for more the turn you play it).
So we can use:
Mind Stone (draws a card later)
Guardian Idol (2/2 if the board is dead)
Talisman of X (get you colored mana for Eldrazi! I think Black can work, because with Cavern, Urborg and Talisman we get some slots for that idea)

----------------------------------------------------

I will switch my midrange build to the ramp version (testing it till yesterday)

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Endless One
2 Oblivion Sower
1 Conduit of Ruin
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Warping Wail
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Grim Monolith
3 Talisman of Dominance/Mind Stone etc.
2 All Is Dust
1 Trinisphere

SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Bearer of Silence/Dismember (something to kill big ones!)
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Maze of Ith

Needle is a thing i dont like (used 3 revokers), but it can help vs Wasteland, Thespian etc. - still testing. Maze can also be 3rd All is Dust, Karn, Endbringer, Jitte etc. so some slots for improvement. Rest works good so far.

josch6083
02-09-2016, 02:20 AM
Quote: "wasteland is a big Problem. "

Thats right. Try mind stone. I play 4 maindeck. And they are very very helpful against wasteland and bloodmoon.
Also crystal vein is an Option. I play 2 aß you can see in my above.

Best regards

T-101
02-09-2016, 02:37 AM
I had played 4 Mind Stone in my previous build. It was definitely good. I wanted to try something different tonight though, and went all-in on the aggro plan with Endless Ones and Revokers. Didn't want to cut any of the Chalice/Trinisphere/Warping Wail cards, so that meant Mind Stone, and I got punished.

This is really the main divide between the 2 or 3 different decks being discussed in this thread - sacrifice resiliency for speed, or no. More testing is required, and maybe it has to be a meta call of "are the tempo Wasteland decks out in force today? If so, play slower Mind Stone deck. If not, kill people faster but get pwnt by those are actually playing Wasteland."

Patrunkenphat7
02-09-2016, 02:38 AM
I think an interesting thing to consider in this deck is Wasteland vs Cavern. Both can be incredibly strong, and I can see the arguments for both sides. Cavern is pretty amazing with Reality Smasher draws against Delver, and Wasteland is great with Thorn/3sphere.

Darkenslight
02-09-2016, 04:40 AM
For what its worth i like the list a lot :P

Even if i don't personally like traitors in lists with ulamogs and slightly higher cmcs. I could see 1 or 2 traitors but not more. Mindstone is something i'll probably try again. Those 10-12 flex spots are really crucial but also really hard to get imho. I liked a lot the sideboard from the video tho', it's probably the right one with the possibility of 1 nulamog to put in there if you run mind stones and a slightly higher average cmc deck.

This is one of the very few decks where I'd consider playing Scorched Ruin as a one-of.

EDIT: The core reason I'd consider it, even though it's card disadvantage in a big way, is that it has the capacity to play more than one thing from a single land. I think that it warrants testing, at least.

Barook
02-09-2016, 05:14 AM
I just don't see the point of playing Scorched Ruins. While it's nice to recycle abundant Legendary lands, but it's prime Wasteland bait, you lack untap effects to abuse it and you don't necessarily net mana with all those Sol lands.

Edit: Started testing an Eldrazi Stompy deck on Cockatrice to see how it goes. Sadly, people leave after G1. :tongue:

I don't like City of Traitors. Right now, I see it as an necessary evil, but I would prefer to cut it completely. Some kind of mana stabiliser is probably needed, be it Mind Stone, Mox Diamond or otherwise.

Also, why was Jitte dropped by other people? Especially in builds with Mimic, Revoker and Endless One, shouldn't it shine? Quite a few decks just roll over and die to an early Jitte. Life on Tomb-heavy draws definitely seemed like a problem. Going all-in on the "Smash stuff with big, expensive Eldrazi" doesn't seem like the best path when you could add another angle of attack this way.

I definitely want another piece of disruption in the deck. Has anybody gotten test results with Lodestone Golem? It even synergizes with Mimic, but I assume it plays poorly without City.

Has anybody tried out CoW + Manlands yet?

bruizar
02-09-2016, 07:13 AM
I'm going to be testing the UR Version in paralel to the colorless stompy list. I think mox diamond can really make UR Eldrazi even more explosive while smoothing out awkward city of traitors and excess eye of ugins. And most of all it allows for turn 1 plays 3 mana plays.

As for Scorched Ruins, it might be good as a sideboard card when you know your opponent isn't playing wasteland. I think I like it mostly for being able to trade in ancient tombs next to the excess eye of ugins. Ancient Tombs can really hurt you in the long run especially in matchups like burn.

Barook
02-09-2016, 09:04 AM
Played a few games with MD.Ghost's list (Mind Stone + Dismember in said flex slots).

The manabase seems more stable than the Stompy version.

I like Conduit of Ruin alot. Tutoring + ramping + 5/5 body is great. I think what might be worth considering is a tutor drop that bridges the mana gap between Conduit and Eldrazi Titans. Something like Ulamog's Crusher or Bane of Bala Ged.

Delvis
02-09-2016, 10:06 AM
I definitely want another piece of disruption in the deck. Has anybody gotten test results with Lodestone Golem? It even synergizes with Mimic, but I assume it plays poorly without City.

My testing group (which is working on this deck) tried Lodestone Golem, but didn't like it. It doesn't get to take advantage of any of the Eldrazi lands which makes the 4 cost on it actually feel bad.

Noc2
02-09-2016, 10:08 AM
Anyone else tried splashing green? I think World Breaker might be worth it. World Breaker helps against Blood moon and ensnaring bridge, does block everything (e.g. Tarmogoyf or delver of secrets and is also a relatively cheap target for eye of ugin. Life from the Loam might help against Wasteland and also works nice with World Breaker.
Here is an example of a deck

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Eye of Ugin
4x Forest
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Wasteland
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Llanowar Wastes

4x Warping Wail
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Life from the Loam
4x Mox Diamond
3x Thorn of Amethyst

4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Endless One
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
3x World Breaker

iostream
02-09-2016, 10:18 AM
Has anybody tried out CoW + Manlands yet?I haven't, but based on my (limited) testing with Lynch and Scheffenacker's list, I think it's definitely worth trying. The Wastelands aren't as good as I was hoping they would be since we actually need the extra mana a lot of the time to do things like cast/equip the equipment off of Eldrazi lands when we don't draw Ancient Tomb or City of Traitors. Another land that has been pretty swingy in my experience is Eye of Ugin. It is probably not as essential to these builds as it is in the Modern versions of this deck because we have a lot of non-Eldrazi spells we want to cast, and Eye makes you stuck a lot of the time. I think we can shave some Wastelands and one Eye for 2-4 Factories, and maybe stick in a Crucible in the space of one of the flex slots.

As for artifact mana, Mind Stone seems like the right thing to do since it's the only reasonable rock we can run that gives us counterplay against Blood Moon.

I don't know how to make room for all of this.

bruizar
02-09-2016, 10:36 AM
I know this thread is going all over the place, but I was also thinking of using Eldrazi Displacer / Drowner of Hope / Eldrazi Skyspawner for control. If Eldrazi will dominate, Eldrazi Displacer can turn your opponents thought-knot seer into your draw engine by tapping it down (not triggering the cast, but triggering the leaves the battlefield ability. It also screw with Eldrazi Mimics (Reality Smasher in play with a Mimic turn turns mimic into a haste Smasher every turn and therefore also makes it a much better top deck late game). Blinking Drowner of Hope needs no explanation. Although a smaller effect, Eldrazi Skyspawner can ramp mana when you are stuck with Displacer (Eldrazi Temple taps for 2 mana on eldrazi abilities too). So, an U/W build might also be viable.

Barook
02-09-2016, 10:54 AM
I know this thread is going all over the place, but I was also thinking of using Eldrazi Displacer / Drowner of Hope / Eldrazi Skyspawner for control. If Eldrazi will dominate, Eldrazi Displacer can turn your opponents thought-knot seer into your draw engine by tapping it down (not triggering the cast, but triggering the leaves the battlefield ability. It also screw with Eldrazi Mimics (Reality Smasher in play with a Mimic turn turns mimic into a haste Smasher every turn and therefore also makes it a much better top deck late game). Blinking Drowner of Hope needs no explanation. Although a smaller effect, Eldrazi Skyspawner can ramp mana when you are stuck with Displacer (Eldrazi Temple taps for 2 mana on eldrazi abilities too). So, an U/W build might also be viable.
I don't think brainstorming for ideas is a bad thing - it gets us closer to the best form of the deck.

TKS effect is ETB, not on cast, so you would allow them to Thoughtseize you on each activation, too.

Between Adakar Wastes, Cavern and Souls and Talisman of Progress, there's plenty of mana fixing to go the route you suggested.

@Noc2: I'd definitely try Conduit in your case since it can tutor for World Breaker.

Delvis
02-09-2016, 10:58 AM
I know this thread is going all over the place, but I was also thinking of using Eldrazi Displacer / Drowner of Hope / Eldrazi Skyspawner for control. If Eldrazi will dominate, Eldrazi Displacer can turn your opponents thought-knot seer into your draw engine by tapping it down (not triggering the cast, but triggering the leaves the battlefield ability. It also screw with Eldrazi Mimics (Reality Smasher in play with a Mimic turn turns mimic into a haste Smasher every turn and therefore also makes it a much better top deck late game). Blinking Drowner of Hope needs no explanation. Although a smaller effect, Eldrazi Skyspawner can ramp mana when you are stuck with Displacer (Eldrazi Temple taps for 2 mana on eldrazi abilities too). So, an U/W build might also be viable.

Thought-Knot Seer has an enters-the-battlefield trigger, not a cast trigger. So Displacing it would give your opponent two triggers that they can stack how they want, and they will stack it so the draw happens first. The only way this actually draws you a card is if you draw a land off the draw trigger and then have a hand of all lands when the ETB trigger resolves.

The other things work, though, especially Drowner of Hope. It's possible that would be a viable strategy.

Admiral_Arzar
02-09-2016, 11:02 AM
Played this list for the first time at my local last night. Ended up 2-1.

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Trinisphere
3 All is Dust

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard

4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tsabo's Web
3 Spine of Ish Sah

I lost to Storm in 3 after misplaying my lands game one (preventing a turn two Thought-Knot Seer). Turn 1 Duress on Trinisphere into turn 2 kill you game one, game two I had turn one Revoker and Crypt stopping a Past in Flames kill. Turn 2 Trinisphere sealed that one up. Game 3 I was on the draw and turn one Duress into turn 2 tendrils everywhere happened again. Round 2 was against Merfolk. Game one he Wasted most of my lands that weren't Ancient Tomb so I ended up taking 12 damage off of Tomb. He killed me for exactsies when I made an ill-advised all-in attack on the final turn. Game two he mulled too much and my big dudes rapidly took over the game. Game three went back and forth for a couple turns until I top-decked two consecutive Reality Smashers. That card is dumb. Round three was against Reanimator. On the draw I kept a hand with turn one Warping Wail but was wrecked by turn 2 combo with counter backup. Game two we both mulled but mine was better - Trinisphere into Thought-Knot. Game three I had Crypt and Eldrazi Mimic on turn one, followed by a Trinisphere that met Force and a Thought-Knot which got there.

The deck felt extremely powerful and more consistent than I expect from Stompy decks (fewer dead draws, and the mana is good). Matter Reshaper didn't do much of anything but that might have more to do with the matchups skewing combo than any inherent weakness of the card, more testing is necessary. Every other creature in the deck was bonkers, except for the Ulamog which got boarded out as all matchups were fast. Trinisphere is a little slow without Grim Monolith or Mox Diamond and might become Thorn of Amethyst.

MD.Ghost
02-09-2016, 11:13 AM
Played a few games with MD.Ghost's list (Mind Stone + Dismember in said flex slots).

The manabase seems more stable than the Stompy version.

I like Conduit of Ruin alot. Tutoring + ramping + 5/5 body is great. I think what might be worth considering is a tutor drop that bridges the mana gap between Conduit and Eldrazi Titans. Something like Ulamog's Crusher or Bane of Bala Ged.

Thanks for testing! :cool:

If you search for another "Target" i would cut Kozilek (overall he is weaker than Ulamog, but in a Ramp Shell and with Conduit you want 2 Targets). With some adjustments (see below) this can also be 1 World Breaker (faster, reach!, blocks Gofy, Smasher etc. and will kill a Ensnaring Bridge, Moon, Maze (DDepths/Stage/Chasm) or even a Humility on cast which is nice.

You can also try other stuff like: Platinum Angel (edit, brainafk) or Platinum Emperion - yes no Eldrazi but they also cost not 10+ Mana and with Conduit, Tombs, Monolith and Postlands it should be work. I would 3 one of these before i touch Bane of Bala Ged or Ulamog's Crusher because even a "Bridge Target" (less than 10 Titan Mana) should be win the game for you more or less.


Anyone else tried splashing green? I think World Breaker might be worth it.

I thought about him as a tutor target over Kozilek (the old one - which for me is the stronger one). What i like is, that 7 (Eldrazi) Mana aren't are hard task for the Ramp (Postlands+Mana artifacts) Version, which is also the Reason why All is Dust is so good in this deck.

My latest build can be adjusted for World Breaker like this:
-1/2 Urborg
+1/2 Brushland/Llanowar Wastes (depends on other Side Splashes)
-3 Mind Stone
+3 Talisman of X (a Green one! Talisman can be used for colorless Mana like Mind Stone and for Color-Splashes!)
Together with Cavern this would leave you with 8-9 possibilities for Green Mana which should be enough for 1-2 Eldrazi.



As for artifact mana, Mind Stone seems like the right thing to do since it's the only reasonable rock we can run that gives us counterplay against Blood Moon.

Mind Stone, or Guardian of Idol (tapped is no problem because you deploy the Artifact for following turns), or Talisman of X if you use a slightly Color-Splash at Side, i recommend only Eldrazi because they will profit from Cavern if they need coloured mana.


If Eldrazi will dominate, Eldrazi Displacer can turn your opponents thought-knot seer into your draw engine by tapping it down (not triggering the cast, but triggering the leaves the battlefield ability.

You are wrong here, Seer has no "Cast Trigger" otherwise it would be (slightly more^^) over the top (because counter him would still trigger him). With Displacer (i played both at my "White Eldrazi" list) you can still profit from your own Seer, exile him, opponent draws a card and you see the new hand and exile a new card too - this will be usefull if your opponent cant use many instant stuff (Brainstorm etc.) to interact with this combo.

About Displacer: I liked him a lot because he will dominate (he has pseudo haste^^) the field, Delver will flip, Lands-Token will be exiled and Big Stuff like Gofy, Smasher or Sneak&Show Matchup are easy winable if you have Displacer and some Mana (Temple is good here!). This is also the reason i maybe try my ramp build with a little colorsplash (see above) and 2-3 Displacer at Side.

iostream
02-09-2016, 11:48 AM
snip
Thanks for the nice report! One question: did you miss not having access to Wasteland?

caprino
02-09-2016, 12:01 PM
Thanks for testing! :cool:

If you search for another "Target" i would cut Kozilek (overall he is weaker than Ulamog, but in a Ramp Shell and with Conduit you want 2 Targets). With some adjustments (see below) this can also be 1 World Breaker (faster, reach!, blocks Gofy, Smasher etc. and will kill a Ensnaring Bridge, Moon, Maze (DDepths/Stage/Chasm) or even a Humility on cast which is nice.

You can also try other stuff like: Platinum Angel (elves can't win against it) or Platinum Emperion - yes no Eldrazi but they also cost not 10+ Mana and with Conduit, Tombs, Monolith and Postlands it should be work. I would 3 one of these before i touch Bane of Bala Ged or Ulamog's Crusher because even a "Bridge Target" (less than 10 Titan Mana) should be win the game for you more or less.



I thought about him as a tutor target over Kozilek (the old one - which for me is the stronger one). What i like is, that 7 (Eldrazi) Mana aren't are hard task for the Ramp (Postlands+Mana artifacts) Version, which is also the Reason why All is Dust is so good in this deck.

My latest build can be adjusted for World Breaker like this:
-1/2 Urborg
+1/2 Brushland/Llanowar Wastes (depends on other Side Splashes)
-3 Mind Stone
+3 Talisman of X (a Green one! Talisman can be used for colorless Mana like Mind Stone and for Color-Splashes!)
Together with Cavern this would leave you with 8-9 possibilities for Green Mana which should be enough for 1-2 Eldrazi.



Mind Stone, or Guardian of Idol (tapped is no problem because you deploy the Artifact for following turns), or Talisman of X if you use a slightly Color-Splash at Side, i recommend only Eldrazi because they will profit from Cavern if they need coloured mana.



You are wrong here, Seer has no "Cast Trigger" otherwise it would be (slightly more^^) over the top (because counter him would still trigger him). With Displacer (i played both at my "White Eldrazi" list) you can still profit from your own Seer, exile him, opponent draws a card and you see the new hand and exile a new card too - this will be usefull if your opponent cant use many instant stuff (Brainstorm etc.) to interact with this combo.

About Displacer: I liked him a lot because he will dominate (he has pseudo haste^^) the field, Delver will flip, Lands-Token will be exiled and Big Stuff like Gofy, Smasher or Sneak&Show Matchup are easy winable if you have Displacer and some Mana (Temple is good here!). This is also the reason i maybe try my ramp build with a little colorsplash (see above) and 2-3 Displacer at Side.

You can write your list that are more competitive and you're playing? thank you

Barook
02-09-2016, 12:35 PM
My latest build can be adjusted for World Breaker like this:
-1/2 Urborg
+1/2 Brushland/Llanowar Wastes (depends on other Side Splashes)
-3 Mind Stone
+3 Talisman of X (a Green one! Talisman can be used for colorless Mana like Mind Stone and for Color-Splashes!)
Together with Cavern this would leave you with 8-9 possibilities for Green Mana which should be enough for 1-2 Eldrazi.
I'm currently running 3 Conduit and added the changes to the mana. Played 2 matches and found myself fetching for World Breaker every single time. Decent body + Reach (fuck you, Delver) + blowing something up on cast is fantastic. Went with a 1 Brushland/Urborg split since I like the random utility Urborg provides.

As for artifact Eye targets: Elves will just play Reclamation Sage and then laugh all the way to the bank.

Sideboard needs work, though. Ratchet Bomb is pretty good, Pithing Needle should do a decent job as well, I guess. Can't say much about Thorn since I haven't played any relevant matches for it. What I did notice, though, is that the deck needs more and better GY hate. Lands is tearing us a new one. Maybe a combination of Tormod's Crypt + Leyline of the Void?

bruizar
02-09-2016, 12:43 PM
You are wrong here, Seer has no "Cast Trigger" otherwise it would be (slightly more^^) over the top (because counter him would still trigger him). With Displacer (i played both at my "White Eldrazi" list) you can still profit from your own Seer, exile him, opponent draws a card and you see the new hand and exile a new card too - this will be usefull if your opponent cant use many instant stuff (Brainstorm etc.) to interact with this combo.

About Displacer: I liked him a lot because he will dominate (he has pseudo haste^^) the field, Delver will flip, Lands-Token will be exiled and Big Stuff like Gofy, Smasher or Sneak&Show Matchup are easy winable if you have Displacer and some Mana (Temple is good here!). This is also the reason i maybe try my ramp build with a little colorsplash (see above) and 2-3 Displacer at Side.

Ah, that's right. My bad. Still good to use on your own Thought-Knot Seer. I don't know if it's viable but running a Rasputin Dreamweaver combos the deck out with Eldrazi displacer -> infinite mana -> activate Eye of Ugin -> get Thought-Knot Seer -> infinite blink TKS to deck opponent.

Captain Hammer
02-09-2016, 12:48 PM
I actually find myself preferring Spartial Contortion to both Warping Wail and Dismember. Contortion can kill anything Wail kills, and it kills bigger threats too after they block one of your weenies. Plus, it can be used to do 3 extra damage to finish your opponent off a turn earlier.

Dismember's life loss tends to be too much when paired with Ancient Tombs, especially against the aggressive decks where Dismember is so crucial.




For me we all talk about 3 playstyles here.

Aggro Eldrazi: With Mimic, no Postlands, thorn over trinisphere (because you want to abuse eye with mimic, Reshaper and thorn works nice with Tomb and City Turn 1etc.), i dont see any Titan here because you will not Ramp into anyone and the lands arent good enough for that. I like 1 Phyrexian Metamorph here for more Seer and Smasher (mimic will also like the idea)

Midrange Eldrazi, Cloudpost mana should be fine, you must decide between Mimic or Reshaper and if you want Mana Artifacts, Trinisphere is good here, 1 Titan should work well with the mana (eye as a tutor should also work good with postmana), 2 Endbringer are also ok here.

Eldrazi Ramp, clearly Postlands, 6-8 Manastones, no Mimic (you want go bigger or use better Creatures), 2 Titans should work well here, 1 think this Version should also include 1 Conduit of Ruin and 2 Oblivion Sower for Ramp, Sower will also Block Smashers in a mirror.

I testet over 50 Matchups (mostly with midrange) now and it seems that I will switch to the Ramp Team, because my only real problems so far are Manadenial and Moon (both will wreck the Aggro build) and I think the Ramp Version will win the Mirror Match (and will also work against other big Creature Stuff like MUD, 12 Post).

We should generally avoid the Pro Tour hype, this is not modern and at legacy it is way more difficult to build up a good deck against the field (and play it good enough as well).

I do like the cloudpost based build I posted earlier, but I also think the Aggro variant has plenty of merit as long as the manabase is approached correctly. Below is the Aggro version I've been testing...

2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - Lets Eye of Ugin effectively produce 3 mana, and also lets you tap Ancient Tomb for mana without losing life.
2 Sea Gate Wreckage - In the low curve aggro versions, you tend to empty your hand fairly quickly, so playing a land that draws you cards is fantastic if your opponent survives into the mid-late game.
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin - The potency of being able to play all the Mimics and Endless Ones in your opening hand on turn 1 is well worth the occasional dead extra Eye of Ugin drawn. Especially true since this land tends to be the prime Wasteland target
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Crystal Vein - Very underrated. Gives the deck a lot more consistencty and explosiveness
4 City of Traitors - See above.

4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Spartial Contortion
1 Jitte
1 Phyrexian Metamoprh
1 Endbringer
1 Ulamog - An all in 1 answer for everything against slow matchups like Miracles.

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Phyrexian Revoker

Barook
02-09-2016, 12:55 PM
Ah, that's right. My bad. Still good to use on your own Thought-Knot Seer. I don't know if it's viable but running a Rasputin Dreamweaver combos the deck out with Eldrazi displacer -> infinite mana -> activate Eye of Ugin -> get Thought-Knot Seer -> infinite blink TKS to deck opponent.
Even with Adarkar Wastes and Talisman, main problem I see is getting 2 colored mana for Rasputin since Cavern for Elrazi doesn't work on him. Instant speed removal of your opponent can also break the chain. Still a very cool use of the combo, though.

T-101
02-09-2016, 01:03 PM
Contortion is definitely the better removal spell, but I've found the counter Sorcery mode to be pretty damn good.

It hasn't come up yet, but I look forward to making a token EoT, and slapping a Jitte on it on my turn. Despite getting pummeled by flipped Delvers and 2/2s yesterday, I'm still going to be running Wail.

bruizar
02-09-2016, 01:25 PM
Even with Adarkar Wastes and Talisman, main problem I see is getting 2 colored mana for Rasputin since Cavern for Elrazi doesn't work on him. Instant speed removal of your opponent can also break the chain. Still a very cool use of the combo, though.

The best I can make for now. 3 cards need to go, but I cant choose. Phantasmal Image also copies enters the battlefield and devoid. Looks like an eldrazi, quacks like an Eldrazi, Eldrazi to me.

UW Eldrazi

Land
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 City of Traitors
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Cavern of Souls
23

Non Eldrazi 09 (Sorted by CC)
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Rasputin Dreamweaver

Eldrazi 31 (Sorted by CC)
3 Phantasmal Image
3 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Drowner of Hope
1 Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger




Contortion is definitely the better removal spell, but I've found the counter Sorcery mode to be pretty damn good.

It hasn't come up yet, but I look forward to making a token EoT, and slapping a Jitte on it on my turn. Despite getting pummeled by flipped Delvers and 2/2s yesterday, I'm still going to be running Wail.

Warping Wail is the death knell against combo decks after playing Chalice of the Void, TKS and then countering their Natural Order / SNT / Reanimate, etc.

Gheizen64
02-09-2016, 01:26 PM
/snip.

Was Jitte ever relevant? I find myself hardly wanting it because of how mana constrained i am the first turns to just equip things.

Admiral_Arzar
02-09-2016, 02:14 PM
Thanks for the nice report! One question: did you miss not having access to Wasteland?

No. I'm used to playing all manner of Stompy decks in Legacy, and almost none of them play Wasteland. This deck is mana-hungry anyways and I don't particularly want to use my land drops for that purpose.


Was Jitte ever relevant? I find myself hardly wanting it because of how mana constrained i am the first turns to just equip things.

It ate Force of Will against Merfolk. I boarded it out against the combo decks for obvious reasons. Jitte is there for fair matchups where you have much more time to get things going, and it turns your shitty little guys into actual threats. If I was playing a more ramp-focused strategy I wouldn't run it.

MaximumC
02-09-2016, 02:19 PM
I just don't see the point of playing Scorched Ruins. While it's nice to recycle abundant Legendary lands, but it's prime Wasteland bait, you lack untap effects to abuse it and you don't necessarily net mana with all those Sol lands.


It ramps, too. Unlike Lotus Vale, which only puts you up +1 mana when you play it (same as just playing any other land), Scorched Ruins takes you from 2 mana on board to 4.

I don't necessarily endorse it in a deck where you have 12 Sol Lands already doing the same thing, but that's a consideration.

MD.Ghost
02-09-2016, 02:36 PM
You can write your list that are more competitive and you're playing? thank you

See Page 10 Post 200:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30299-DECK-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=930197&viewfull=1#post930197

You can easy adjust the following stuff:

Lands:
2 Urborg/Vesuva/2 "Colorless Duals" (like Brushland) or other Utility Stuff

Artifacts:
3 Mind Stone/Guardian Idol/Talisman (if you need a Color Fix for Stuf like World Breaker)

Creatures:
1 Kozilek/World Breaker (need a "Green Mana" fix!)/Platinum Angel/ Any other Big Target
2 Oblivion Sower/can be other 5-6 Mana Eldrazi, i like Barooks Tech with 2 more Conduit of Ruin and World Breaker

Note: If you follow the little GW Splash idea, you can also try a number of Eldrazi Displacer Main (Slot: Matter Reshaper), the risk is you need W (Cavern, Brushland, Talisman) for cast (or a lucky Reshaper Trigger) BUT: Displacer is a very underestimated Guy. Body with 3/3 is not Bad in legacy and his ability is very good, sure you can't abuse your own Eldrazi (besides Seer), but you can protect them and more important, control the battlefield. The biggest upside will be against Matchups with Big Stuff like Lands (Token), Sneak&Show, MUD, 12Post, Mirror etc. but you also can keep Delver and Gofy in check until you get them.

I only played 1 Matchup (Pox) with this Splash so far but Displacer destroyed his plan with recurring Mishra's Factory.


I'm currently running 3 Conduit and added the changes to the mana. Played 2 matches and found myself fetching for World Breaker every single time. Decent body + Reach (fuck you, Delver) + blowing something up on cast is fantastic. Went with a 1 Brushland/Urborg split since I like the random utility Urborg provides.

As for artifact Eye targets: Elves will just play Reclamation Sage and then laugh all the way to the bank.

Sideboard needs work, though. Ratchet Bomb is pretty good, Pithing Needle should do a decent job as well, I guess. Can't say much about Thorn since I haven't played any relevant matches for it. What I did notice, though, is that the deck needs more and better GY hate. Lands is tearing us a new one. Maybe a combination of Tormod's Crypt + Leyline of the Void?

Yeap more Conduit (do you cut Sower?) should work well in this case. As mentioned a lot i still like Urborg (played 2 of them) but with World Breaker (and Displacer) i am still unsure (not enough test games) if i want 2 Brushland here.

Elves: I was brainafk... Sage is still good, so you need to kill (mostly a single one) him first. The good thing is, that Sage will come down soon to kill Chalice/Sphere - but yes, Elves can be very resilient, it will need Chalice/Sphere AND Warping Wail (NO) and should follow up with a Sweeper as soon as possible.

Sideboard: Lands should be a bad matchup, but it is not a common deck and will also struggle if more players bring in Manadenial or Hate like Blood Moon (against Eldrazi^^). I still want to improve that matchup, yes more Graveyard Hate can be work, if you don't like Faerie i would use 4 Leyline of the Void which can be ready Turn 0 (no Reanimate Counter) is hard to remove, will work against other GY Stuff (Aggro Loam etc.) and Combo (Storm etc.). Before this, i would try some other tools against Lands (because i like my 3 Faerie Tech a lot) which can be: World Breaker Main and some Eldrazi Displacer at Main/Side. I also still don't like the Needle Idea, so i will try 2 Tsabo's Web. So with Chalice, Ramp-Artifacts, World Breaker, Faerie, Displacer and Web the Lands Matchups shouldn't be so bad anymore.



Warping Wail is the death knell against combo decks after playing Chalice of the Void, TKS and then countering their Natural Order / SNT / Reanimate, etc.

Yes - the spell saved me so many times (Terminus, Entreat, Show&Tell, NO, Glimpse, even Hymn, Small Pox lately or simply ramp into more Mana EoT or bother Planeswalker like liliana) - Warping Wail is clearly a 4off till i started with this deck.


Was Jitte ever relevant? I find myself hardly wanting it because of how mana constrained i am the first turns to just equip things.

I tried 1-2 and while Jitte can always be a good tool, it also needs 4 (non Eldrazi) Mana. For me the best case was: Reshaper dies, trigger into Jitte, attack the following turn with another Dude and Jitte. As you described it, the first Turns this deck will try to play a lot of other stuff. I am unsure if Jitte will get to my final 75 for the next tournament.

caprino
02-09-2016, 02:55 PM
See Page 10 Post 200:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30299-DECK-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=930197&viewfull=1#post930197

You can easy adjust the following stuff:

Lands:
2 Urborg/Vesuva/2 "Colorless Duals" (like Brushland) or other Utility Stuff

Artifacts:
3 Mind Stone/Guardian Idol/Talisman (if you need a Color Fix for Stuf like World Breaker)

Creatures:
1 Kozilek/World Breaker (need a "Green Mana" fix!)/Platinum Angel/ Any other Big Target
2 Oblivion Sower/can be other 5-6 Mana Eldrazi, i like Barooks Tech with 2 more Conduit of Ruin and World Breaker

Note: If you follow the little GW Splash idea, you can also try a number of Eldrazi Displacer Main (Slot: Matter Reshaper), the risk is you need W (Cavern, Brushland, Talisman) for cast (or a lucky Reshaper Trigger) BUT: Displacer is a very underestimated Guy. Body with 3/3 is not Bad in legacy and his ability is very good, sure you can't abuse your own Eldrazi (besides Seer), but you can protect them and more important, control the battlefield. The biggest upside will be against Matchups with Big Stuff like Lands (Token), Sneak&Show, MUD, 12Post, Mirror etc. but you also can keep Delver and Gofy in check until you get them.

I only played 1 Matchup (Pox) with this Splash so far but Displacer destroyed his plan with recurring Mishra's Factory.



Yeap more Conduit (do you cut Sower?) should work well in this case. As mentioned a lot i still like Urborg (played 2 of them) but with World Breaker (and Displacer) i am still unsure (not enough test games) if i want 2 Brushland here.

Elves: I was brainafk... Sage is still good, so you need to kill (mostly a single one) him first. The good thing is, that Sage will come down soon to kill Chalice/Sphere - but yes, Elves can be very resilient, it will need Chalice/Sphere AND Warping Wail (NO) and should follow up with a Sweeper as soon as possible.

Sideboard: Lands should be a bad matchup, but it is not a common deck and will also struggle if more players bring in Manadenial or Hate like Blood Moon (against Eldrazi^^). I still want to improve that matchup, yes more Graveyard Hate can be work, if you don't like Faerie i would use 4 Leyline of the Void which can be ready Turn 0 (no Reanimate Counter) is hard to remove, will work against other GY Stuff (Aggro Loam etc.) and Combo (Storm etc.). Before this, i would try some other tools against Lands (because i like my 3 Faerie Tech a lot) which can be: World Breaker Main and some Eldrazi Displacer at Main/Side. I also still don't like the Needle Idea, so i will try 2 Tsabo's Web. So with Chalice, Ramp-Artifacts, World Breaker, Faerie, Displacer and Web the Lands Matchups shouldn't be so bad anymore.



Yes - the spell saved me so many times (Terminus, Entreat, Show&Tell, NO, Glimpse, even Hymn, Small Pox lately or simply ramp into more Mana EoT or bother Planeswalker like liliana) - Warping Wail is clearly a 4off till i started with this deck.



I tried 1-2 and while Jitte can always be a good tool, it also needs 4 (non Eldrazi) Mana. For me the best case was: Reshaper dies, trigger into Jitte, attack the following turn with another Dude and Jitte. As you described it, the first Turns this deck will try to play a lot of other stuff. I am unsure if Jitte will get to my final 75 for the next tournament.
I like you sideboard... Side out and side in Vs principal tier? Thanks

Barook
02-09-2016, 03:24 PM
@MD.Ghost: I cut the Sowers early since they were only mediocre to make room for the additional Conduits. That said, World Breaker is really, really good. I'm actually considering adding a second copy since you want it as Conduit target and it's nice as hard-cast target as well. In one of my latest matches, I cast Conduit and had World Breaker already used. :cry: Not too sure what to cut - Ulamog is extremely expensive, but can also hit creatures and PWs.

About Eldrazi Displacer: I think as a SB card it's nonsense and a waste of space. But as a MD card? Sounds good. Matter Reshaper has been pretty meh so far. Most of the times, it's either StP fodder, a meh beater or a glorified chumpblocker with a suprise "Oops, I ramp!" factor. Not terrible, but not exactly great, either. I could easily see Displacer stealing its spot.

About Displacer + TKS: Miracles has no chance to fire off a Miracle as long as you have both and mana for an activation open. As soon as they put the trigger on the stack, you flicker your TKS and take their sorcery, similiar to Clique. Be careful about flickering if they have set up their Miracle on top - the discard has the wrong timing to hit the Miracle in this scenario. Something to keep in mind. That's some D&T level of trickery right there - I like it.

Let's assume the deck runs 2 World Breaker and 4 Displacers. That would mean the needs a minimum of 9 :wg: sources - Cavern covers 4 already, with a combination of 5 Brushland/Talisman bringing the rest to the table. Question is:

1 Urborg/1 Brushland with 2 Monolith/4 Talisman
or
2 Brushland with 3 Monolith/3 Talisman

Patrunkenphat7
02-09-2016, 03:27 PM
Surprised you guys are having trouble casting Trinisphere and Jitte off this manabase. These cards have been great for me so far. Jitte is really nice because it turns some of your threat-light hands that maybe only resolve a 2/1 or two into much more of an issue for your opponent. For reference the manabase I'm testing is as follows:

4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors

MD.Ghost
02-09-2016, 03:41 PM
I like you sideboard... Side out and side in Vs principal tier? Thanks

I can't give you some detail advise for the common matchups because i played a lot of different builds and the "new" Version (with Ramp) is still a brew (see posts above, with a lot of room for improvment).

If i would enter a tournament now i would play the build with the latest GW Splash (World Breaker, Brushland, Talisman, 1 Displacer Main etc.) and the following experimental side:

1 All is Dust (and 2 Main, I still like the idea of a Planeswalker here, but they will not be supported from all the avaible Eldrazi Lands...)
1 Eldrazi Displacer (and 1 Main, as mentioned above this little guy can win matchups which can be hard for most Eldrazi Builds, this slot is "Single Removal" which can also be Dismember, Endbringer, Bearer of Silence if you have Urborg etc.)
4 Leyline of the Void (or 3 Faerie and 1 Tsabo's Web, but i have the feeling Lands and - in germany - Aggro Loam will still be played and aren't easy matchups if you can't break the manadenial/loam - the biggest issue i have with leyline is that my GW Build will not have a Urborg for Hardcast, i really would avoid all that Tormod's Crypt stuff - Graveyard Hate in form of Faerie or Leyline is perfect if you understand how all the decks work)
2 Phyrexian Revoker (remember you can search him with Eye too!)
2 Ratchet Bomb (had 3 before, but with 3 All is Dust and Eldrazi Displacer 2 Bombs should be enough, see below)
1 Culling Scales/Nevinyrral's Disk/Oblivion Stone (All have their pros and cons, but i liked vs Painter if they name Bomb with Revoker that you can still kill the field, Culling Scales can hit all the stuff up to 3 mana, which is a lot in legacy, but this slot is very experimental - 3rd Bomb should be fine as well)
3 Thorn of Amethyst (against Storm Mindbreak Trap would be better, but Burn can be a problem and Thorn will help here and in other Combo Matchups)
1 Wastes (more for the "lol" but i can see more Blood Moon, Path to Exile, Ghost Quarter in decks if Eldrazi will rise up in Legacy, so it is ok to have 1, it will also be as one more land against heavy Manadenial decks, but this Slot can also be anything Else!)

EDIT:


@MD.Ghost: I cut the Sowers early since they were only mediocre to make room for the additional Conduits. That said, World Breaker is really, really good. I'm actually considering adding a second copy since you want it as Conduit target and it's nice as hard-cast target as well. In one of my latest matches, I cast Conduit and had World Breaker already used. :cry: Not too sure what to cut - Ulamog is extremely expensive, but can also hit creatures and PWs.

About Eldrazi Displacer: I think as a SB card it's nonsense and a waste of space. But as a MD card? Sounds good. Matter Reshaper has been pretty meh so far. Most of the times, it's either StP fodder, a meh beater or a glorified chumpblocker with a suprise "Oops, I ramp!" factor. Not terrible, but not exactly great, either. I could easily see Displacer stealing its spot.

About Displacer + TKS: Miracles has no chance to fire off a Miracle as long as you have both and mana for an activation open. As soon as they put the trigger on the stack, you flicker your TKS and take their sorcery, similiar to Clique. Be careful about flickering if they have set up their Miracle on top - the discard has the wrong timing to hit the Miracle in this scenario. Something to keep in mind. That's some D&T level of trickery right there - I like it.

Let's assume the deck runs 2 World Breaker and 4 Displacers. That would mean the needs a minimum of 9 :wg: sources - Cavern covers 4 already, with a combination of 5 Brushland/Talisman bringing the rest to the table. Question is:

1 Urborg/1 Brushland with 2 Monolith/4 Talisman
or
2 Brushland with 3 Monolith/3 Talisman

Still not sold to cut Reshaper (because without Mimic, Reshaper is a solid fast drop with "any" mana), but yeah if the build tends to "more GW" i could see a test of all the numbers of 1-4 Displayer, 1-2 World Breaker, 1-2 Brushland, 3-4 Talisman.

Note: As an early "replacement" of Reshaper i can also see more Endless One, which will also Scale very well with all the Mana/Game etc. so their is room for improvments here like -4 Reshaper -2 Urborg, +3 Displacer, +1 Endless One (3 total) +2 Brushland or anything else in this direction. As i said, Reshaper is very good vs BGx (nice Toxic Deluge, Liliana, Gofy etc.)

I like your 3 Conduits Idea and will also test them in that number (but yeah with 3 i think a 2nd World Breaker or other Target like the Angel should be in the 75 besides Ulamog).

Lets find a good mana base for this brew :)

iostream
02-09-2016, 03:45 PM
Surprised you guys are having trouble casting Trinisphere and Jitte off this manabase. These cards have been great for me so far. Jitte is really nice because it turns some of your threat-light hands that maybe only resolve a 2/1 or two into much more of an issue for your opponent. For reference the manabase I'm testing is as follows:

4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of TraitorsWhat's the rest of your decklist? Are you running any artifact mana?

Admiral_Arzar
02-09-2016, 03:45 PM
Surprised you guys are having trouble casting Trinisphere and Jitte off this manabase. These cards have been great for me so far. Jitte is really nice because it turns some of your threat-light hands that maybe only resolve a 2/1 or two into much more of an issue for your opponent. For reference the manabase I'm testing is as follows:

Pretty much this. People complaining about not being able to cast a two-mana artifact when their deck is built about Chalice are wearing their pants on their head. Trinisphere I have no issue casting, I just dislike the inability to cast it turn one. It's debatable whether that's enough of a problem to run Thorn instead, but my meta is overrun with fast combo so it might be a meta call even if Trinisphere is better in the wider meta.

Gheizen64
02-09-2016, 04:23 PM
Surprised you guys are having trouble casting Trinisphere and Jitte off this manabase. These cards have been great for me so far. Jitte is really nice because it turns some of your threat-light hands that maybe only resolve a 2/1 or two into much more of an issue for your opponent. For reference the manabase I'm testing is as follows:

4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors

I never had problem actually casting them, it's more that jitte is 4 mana plus an attack phase, and is good vs "fair" decks which honestly didn't feel problematic to me. Also, 4 mana when a lot of your temple tap for 1 and ugin give 0 is comparatively like a 6 mana eldrazi, even if it's castable in two turns instead of 1.

Trinisphere vs thorn to me is the fact that trinisphere slow your development down if you cast it early, while thorn is a T1 play that does nothing to your curve while slowing significantly most decks. There's no doubt 3Sphere is a much stronger effect and just kills some decks (elves, BUG cascade) where thorn does little to nothing.

caprino
02-09-2016, 04:57 PM
I can't give you some detail advise for the common matchups because i played a lot of different builds and the "new" Version (with Ramp) is still a brew (see posts above, with a lot of room for improvment).

If i would enter a tournament now i would play the build with the latest GW Splash (World Breaker, Brushland, Talisman, 1 Displacer Main etc.) and the following experimental side:

1 All is Dust (and 2 Main, I still like the idea of a Planeswalker here, but they will not be supported from all the avaible Eldrazi Lands...)
1 Eldrazi Displacer (and 1 Main, as mentioned above this little guy can win matchups which can be hard for most Eldrazi Builds, this slot is "Single Removal" which can also be Dismember, Endbringer, Bearer of Silence if you have Urborg etc.)
4 Leyline of the Void (or 3 Faerie and 1 Tsabo's Web, but i have the feeling Lands and - in germany - Aggro Loam will still be played and aren't easy matchups if you can't break the manadenial/loam - the biggest issue i have with leyline is that my GW Build will not have a Urborg for Hardcast, i really would avoid all that Tormod's Crypt stuff - Graveyard Hate in form of Faerie or Leyline is perfect if you understand how all the decks work)
2 Phyrexian Revoker (remember you can search him with Eye too!)
2 Ratchet Bomb (had 3 before, but with 3 All is Dust and Eldrazi Displacer 2 Bombs should be enough, see below)
1 Culling Scales/Nevinyrral's Disk/Oblivion Stone (All have their pros and cons, but i liked vs Painter if they name Bomb with Revoker that you can still kill the field, Culling Scales can hit all the stuff up to 3 mana, which is a lot in legacy, but this slot is very experimental - 3rd Bomb should be fine as well)
3 Thorn of Amethyst (against Storm Mindbreak Trap would be better, but Burn can be a problem and Thorn will help here and in other Combo Matchups)
1 Wastes (more for the "lol" but i can see more Blood Moon, Path to Exile, Ghost Quarter in decks if Eldrazi will rise up in Legacy, so it is ok to have 1, it will also be as one more land against heavy Manadenial decks, but this Slot can also be anything Else!)

EDIT:



Still not sold to cut Reshaper (because without Mimic, Reshaper is a solid fast drop with "any" mana), but yeah if the build tends to "more GW" i could see a test of all the numbers of 1-4 Displayer, 1-2 World Breaker, 1-2 Brushland, 3-4 Talisman.

Note: As an early "replacement" of Reshaper i can also see more Endless One, which will also Scale very well with all the Mana/Game etc. so their is room for improvments here like -4 Reshaper -2 Urborg, +3 Displacer, +1 Endless One (3 total) +2 Brushland or anything else in this direction. As i said, Reshaper is very good vs BGx (nice Toxic Deluge, Liliana, Gofy etc.)

I like your 3 Conduits Idea and will also test them in that number (but yeah with 3 i think a 2nd World Breaker or other Target like the Angel should be in the 75 besides Ulamog).

Lets find a good mana base for this brew :)

I write the list of gw version and its side thanks

Oxide
02-09-2016, 05:13 PM
Went to another tourny tonight and i had my first loss since picking up the deck.

5-1

Bug delver 2-0
Elves 2-0
Miracles 2-1
Storm 2-1
UR delver 2-1
Miracles 0-2

He just drew the fucking nuts. not alot to do about that, list was the same as last time.
im now 15-1 in rounds over 3 tournys

bruizar
02-09-2016, 05:15 PM
Went to another tourny tonight and i had my first loss since picking up the deck.

5-1

Bug delver 2-0
Elves 2-0
Miracles 2-1
Storm 2-1
UR delver 2-1
Miracles 0-2

He just drew the fucking nuts. not alot to do about that, list was the same as last time.
im now 15-1 in rounds over 3 tournys

Like a boss

Barook
02-09-2016, 05:41 PM
I can't give you some detail advise for the common matchups because i played a lot of different builds and the "new" Version (with Ramp) is still a brew (see posts above, with a lot of room for improvment).

If i would enter a tournament now i would play the build with the latest GW Splash (World Breaker, Brushland, Talisman, 1 Displacer Main etc.) and the following experimental side:

1 All is Dust (and 2 Main, I still like the idea of a Planeswalker here, but they will not be supported from all the avaible Eldrazi Lands...)
1 Eldrazi Displacer (and 1 Main, as mentioned above this little guy can win matchups which can be hard for most Eldrazi Builds, this slot is "Single Removal" which can also be Dismember, Endbringer, Bearer of Silence if you have Urborg etc.)
4 Leyline of the Void (or 3 Faerie and 1 Tsabo's Web, but i have the feeling Lands and - in germany - Aggro Loam will still be played and aren't easy matchups if you can't break the manadenial/loam - the biggest issue i have with leyline is that my GW Build will not have a Urborg for Hardcast, i really would avoid all that Tormod's Crypt stuff - Graveyard Hate in form of Faerie or Leyline is perfect if you understand how all the decks work)
2 Phyrexian Revoker (remember you can search him with Eye too!)
2 Ratchet Bomb (had 3 before, but with 3 All is Dust and Eldrazi Displacer 2 Bombs should be enough, see below)
1 Culling Scales/Nevinyrral's Disk/Oblivion Stone (All have their pros and cons, but i liked vs Painter if they name Bomb with Revoker that you can still kill the field, Culling Scales can hit all the stuff up to 3 mana, which is a lot in legacy, but this slot is very experimental - 3rd Bomb should be fine as well)
3 Thorn of Amethyst (against Storm Mindbreak Trap would be better, but Burn can be a problem and Thorn will help here and in other Combo Matchups)
1 Wastes (more for the "lol" but i can see more Blood Moon, Path to Exile, Ghost Quarter in decks if Eldrazi will rise up in Legacy, so it is ok to have 1, it will also be as one more land against heavy Manadenial decks, but this Slot can also be anything Else!)
I already run 3 Displacers in the main (and only 2 Endless One due to space issues; since it's a vanilla beater, I can live with that), so the 4th Displacer seems redundant, at least for my build.

Wastes is a waste of space. We already have 6 artifact sources to dodge Blood Moon and nobody in Legacy is going to play the aborted Modern versions of Legacy staples. :wink: I would rather invest those slots into additional problem match-ups or stuff that shores up our match-ups across the field.

This begs the question: What are actually the weak/strong match-ups of the deck?

From I've gathered so far from this thread/playtesting on Cockatrice (take their player skill as a grain of salt):
- Lands is terrible
- Burn is bad
- Goyf is annoying to deal with (although it seems (uncounterable) World Breaker actively shits on him in terms of size)
- what else?

World Breaker recycling has been pretty unexplored yet. I crushed my latest RUG opponent, but getting back my first World Breaker might have been a feasible option after two 4/5 Goyfs ganged up on him.

iostream
02-09-2016, 06:26 PM
I've seen people suggesting Crystal Vein at various points in this thread as extra copies of City of Traitors for extra turn 1 explosiveness. Is this actually reasonable? What kind of hands are you happy to sacrifice your first land drop for a 2cmc disruption piece? It seems straight up horrible in land-light hands or in the blind against decks against which you're unsure about the value of Chalice or Thorn.

Gheizen64
02-09-2016, 06:47 PM
I've seen people suggesting Crystal Vein at various points in this thread as extra copies of City of Traitors for extra turn 1 explosiveness. Is this actually reasonable? What kind of hands are you happy to sacrifice your first land drop for a 2cmc disruption piece? It seems straight up horrible in land-light hands or in the blind against decks against which you're unsure about the value of Chalice or Thorn.

It's not as much about T1 disruption, it's more about that T2-T3 reality smasher to close the game or T4 all is dust, T5 ugin. It make basically your top end cards easy to cast in exchange for a land which you don't care that much about at that point, and in exchange for any utility since it's essentially a land that just tap for C most of the times.

hofzge
02-10-2016, 03:32 AM
It's not as much about T1 disruption, it's more about that T2-T3 reality smasher to close the game or T4 all is dust, T5 ugin.

I tend to disagree, but this discussion is academic as it comes from the fact that your deck is very different from more disruptive versions of the deck.

Anyways: I went 3-1 in my local game store with this more aggressive version:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Wasteland

4x Eldrazi Mimic
2x Endbringer
4x Endless One
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer

4x Chalice of the Void
3x Mox Diamond
3x Trinisphere
4x Warping Wail

Sideboard (15)
1x All Is Dust
3x Dismember
1x Endbringer
4x Faerie Macabre
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Tormod's Crypt

It went like this:

2-1 Burn: G1 I go T1 Trinisphere not knowing what he plays and he plays Mountain, so I go T2 Chalice into T3 Thought Knot Seer.
G2 I mull, but am able to play Chalices on 1 and 3, but he is able to stabilize behind Ensnaring Bridge and Smash to Smithereens the Chalice at which point I lose.
G3 he Mulligans to 5 and Mimic into Thought-Knot into Thought-Knot rip him apart

2-0 Reanimator:
G1 I know what he plays so I go T1 Chalice 0 and 1 and Revoker on Griselbrand into T2 Thought-Knot Seer.
G2 My starting hand is Ancient Tomb, Eldrazi Land, Thought Kot Seer, Tormod's Crypt, Faerie Macabre and Warping Wail - I think it is nearly impossible to lose with this hand

2-1 Belcher:
G1 On the play I have T1 Chalice 0 and Revoker - but he has 3 Spirit guides into Tinder Wall into Ritual into Empty the Warrens for 10 Goblins...
G2 He mulligans, I Revoke Goblin Charbelcher and does not do too much T1 and I can Thought-Knot his Burning Wish. He has no kill spell the rest of the game.
G3 I have Ratchet bomb and Revoker in my hand - As long as he cannot kill me on T1 I should be fine. He makes 10 Goblins and I bomb them away and Thought-Knot him.

0-2 Lands:
G1 he can stabilize with 2 Maze of Ith and i have to pay 3 with Ancient Tombs to attack with a single Eldrazi Mimic until he finds the combo and Marit Lage eats me.
G2 More of the same beats as he is able to T1 Exploration and naturally play Stage-Dark Depths T2 to kill me.

I would play the following from here on:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Crystal Vein/Mishra's Factory/??
4x Wasteland

4x Eldrazi Mimic
2x Endbringer
4x Endless One
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
3x Trinisphere
3x Warping Wail

Sideboard (15)
2x Dismember
1x Endbringer
4x Faerie Macabre
3x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Tormod's Crypt

Pithing Needle is good against 2 of the supposedly bad matchups in Lands and Show and Tell based decks. Against Lands you need a Needle or you are always naked to Marit Lage (Endbringer is a an extremely slow answer).

MD.Ghost
02-10-2016, 05:56 AM
From I've gathered so far from this thread/playtesting on Cockatrice (take their player skill as a grain of salt):
- Lands is terrible
- Burn is bad
- Goyf is annoying to deal with (although it seems (uncounterable) World Breaker actively shits on him in terms of size)
- what else?


Yep, this should it be - Moon (Painter, Stompy, Miracle Side) is also a pain, more for the Aggro Eldrazi (since no Mana Artifacts) unless they go first with Eye into some Mimics for a fast Beat down.

I still try the GW-Ramp idea:

so 2 Brushland, 3 Talisman of Duty and 1 Eldrazi Displacer and 2 World Breaker Main!

Found Displacer (i like him a lot) is not castable enough with 9 GW Sources at early rounds, so i still think 1 is fine unless you put in more Talisman Stuff or a lucky with Cavern - so i still run 3 Reshaper to get an early dude online.

For the 2nd World Breaker i cutted 1 Conduit, because i think 2 are still fine with 2 Eye which means 4 tutors for 3 Mid-Late Game Targets. Breaker can stall the field very well, so it should be ok.

My side change here and there (unless the fix stuff like Bomb, Revoker, Faerie etc.) today this worked good for a couple of matches:
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 All Is Dust
1 Platinum Angel

caprino
02-10-2016, 06:42 AM
Yep, this should it be - Moon (Painter, Stompy, Miracle Side) is also a pain, more for the Aggro Eldrazi (since no Mana Artifacts) unless they go first with Eye into some Mimics for a fast Beat down.

I still try the GW-Ramp idea:

so 2 Brushland, 3 Talisman of Duty and 1 Eldrazi Displacer and 2 World Breaker Main!

Found Displacer (i like him a lot) is not castable enough with 9 GW Sources at early rounds, so i still think 1 is fine unless you put in more Talisman Stuff or a lucky with Cavern - so i still run 3 Reshaper to get an early dude online.

For the 2nd World Breaker i cutted 1 Conduit, because i think 2 are still fine with 2 Eye which means 4 tutors for 3 Mid-Late Game Targets. Breaker can stall the field very well, so it should be ok.

My side change here and there (unless the fix stuff like Bomb, Revoker, Faerie etc.) today this worked good for a couple of matches:
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 All Is Dust
1 Platinum Angel

main deck?

MD.Ghost
02-10-2016, 08:23 AM
main deck?

// Deck: Eldrazi v3.dec (60)

// Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Brushland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost

// Creatures
2 Conduit of Ruin
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endless One
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 World Breaker

// Spells
2 All Is Dust
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Grim Monolith
3 Talisman of Unity
1 Trinisphere
4 Warping Wail

See posts about it before.

ChemicalBurns
02-10-2016, 09:40 AM
Hofzge I have been running a very similar list concentrated on aggression (old list is a few pages back) and would love your input on a few things, mainly:
- How much has Trinisphere had dissynergy with Eye? I'm somewhat afraid of 3Ball slowing us down considerably too.
- How has Mox Diamond been? I tested it before and was very unimpressed with it. Discarding lands, despite it landing lock pieces early, feels awful in such a mana-hungry deck.

Anyway, my revised list looks like:

Creatures: (24)
4 Endless One
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Non-Creature Spells: (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

Lands: (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard: (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Endbringer
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spellskite
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail

Major change is SSG as acceleration piece, which can be hardcast at time too via Cavern, and introduction of Thorns. Though if 3Balls are still valid to everyone despite Eye dissynergy I'm happy to replace them with those. I'll be playing a weekly tomorrow with this nonetheless and will report results.

Also on Cockatrice I played the mirror so many times today... This deck is really gaining momentum. I can see that the aggressive lists are starting to boil down to an obvious core (it's just the best small Eldrazi + locks + some removal, so no surprises there), but it seems like the midrange variants are going in a variety of diverging directions which is cool too. I'm personally a big fan of finding a place for Worldbreaker. I might try find time to tune a list that runs in a similar way to how MUD functions, going a bit bigger though, however.

EDIT: Couldn't sleep if I didn't brew a list. Completely untested, but going along MD.Ghost's lines:

Creatures: (19)
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 World Breaker
2 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Non-Creature Spells: (16)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Trinisphere
3 Punishing Fire
2 All Is Dust

Lands: (25)
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin

Sideboard: (15)
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle

This is completely untested and just theorycraft. That being said, Grove is probably one of the best lands for this kind of list, as it casts World Breaker and our colourless spells easily and gives us access to a powerful creature control mechanism. Kozilek's Return is also sweet out of the sideboard and I guess Grudge is potentially castable? :/ Nonetheless I like the look of this list.

bruizar
02-10-2016, 10:32 AM
To everyone using Brushland, I'd consider Horizon Canopy over it. I think it's well worth the fact that it doesn't tap for colorless.

iostream
02-10-2016, 10:58 AM
I've been doing some testing with Mishra's Factory, and I think it's worth slots. It allows you to do something productive when you're short of mana due to Wasteland, and it helps push through the last few points of damage. I like them quite a lot.

I also tried Mind Stone, and I don't know if they are worthwhile. In the first two turns of the game, if you nothing better to spend your mana than Mind Stone, I think you probably should have mulliganed. After the first two turns of the game, it feels like a pretty low-impact play. As for counterplay against Wasteland and Blood Moon: I feel we are good enough versus the tempo Wasteland decks, so I'd really only want it to have an out to Blood Moon, and that might not be good enough. I think they are not clearly better than basic Wastes in that specific role. Another thing is that the red Stompy decks that can play t1/t2 Blood Moon are already bad matchups, and so it might just be worth conceding the matchup altogether.

hofzge
02-10-2016, 11:18 AM
Hofzge I have been running a very similar list concentrated on aggression (old list is a few pages back) and would love your input on a few things, mainly:
- How much has Trinisphere had dissynergy with Eye? I'm somewhat afraid of 3Ball slowing us down considerably too.
- How has Mox Diamond been? I tested it before and was very unimpressed with it. Discarding lands, despite it landing lock pieces early, feels awful in such a mana-hungry deck.


- You might be right running the Thorns - Trinisphere is such a crutch without Monolith...
- Mox Diamond is great, but you might be right to run the spirit guides. It is funny that before the PT Pdingo suggested those and everybody say "OMG NO" and once LSV plays a card everyone sounds like it is the most established card ever ;)



Anyway, my revised list looks like:

Creatures: (24)
4 Endless One
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Non-Creature Spells: (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

Lands: (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard: (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Endbringer
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spellskite
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail


I like you cutting maindeck Wails, as I did not entirely like them (they go against the lockpiece-tapout nature of the deck). Thorns are kind of a nombo with them, too...

But all considered i like your deck - if you don't run Moxen, I would cut an Eye as the second one is totally worthless...



EDIT: Couldn't sleep if I didn't brew a list. Completely untested, but going along MD.Ghost's lines:

Creatures: (19)
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 World Breaker
2 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Non-Creature Spells: (16)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Trinisphere
3 Punishing Fire
2 All Is Dust

Lands: (25)
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin

Sideboard: (15)
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle


World Breaker is the Eldrazi with the highest upside to play, as he can save you from all kinds of bad situations and is also a fast clock for not too much mana. I like brewing around him and am no longer sure if the Titan is needed if you play multiple World Breakers you can tutor for. Cool list tough!

Patrunkenphat7
02-10-2016, 11:19 AM
I agree Mishra's Factory has been very good for me. I only run 1 right now but wish I could make room for another. Very hesitant to cut the 4th Cavern for one though because in the matchups where Cavern is good it can single-handedly win the game.

iostream
02-10-2016, 11:28 AM
I agree Mishra's Factory has been very good for me. I only run 1 right now but wish I could make room for another. Very hesitant to cut the 4th Cavern for one though because in the matchups where Cavern is good it can single-handedly win the game.I've been cutting some Wastelands for it. It's nice to have access to the effect to interact with high-impact lands, but the point of Chalice and Thorn/Sphere is not to completely lock people out of the game, just to buy some tempo for our fatties. I don't think we are eager to nuke lands early on in the game. I've been trying the following land base:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Keep in mind that I'm not running Mox Diamond, so multiple-Eye draws are kind of a disaster. You can cut the Urborg for the 4th Cavern easily, but I think it's nice to have access to it when multiple Ancient Tombs are screwing us out of the game.