[Deck] Mono Blue Stax

[PunkRocker1134]

First my list straight from the Relic Orb Thread:

Blue Stax
// Lands
3 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
16 [7E] Island (3)
4 [ON] Flooded Strand

// Spells
3 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [US] Smokestack
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [NE] Tangle Wire
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [7E] Counterspell
4 [4E] Winter Orb
4 [VI] Impulse
4 [TE] Propaganda
3 [UL] Iron Maiden

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 3 [7E] Arcane Laboratory
SB: 4 [6E] Chill
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 4 [WL] Mana Chains

Now for the main discussion. Why run this over any other flavor of Stax? To start blue has card drawing. I only run Impulse but still it is something. Next is counterspells. Counterspell and Force of Will have made my day during some matches. Propaganda and Winter Orb work very well together and often can stop an aggro rush before you die. The Tabernacle is an aggro slayer as well, with Winter Orb it often can obilterate entire armys of little green men. Iron Madden is a great win, mainly becuase it isn't a creature and once any sort of lock is in place it acts as a great kill.


Odd Sideboard Choices:
Mana Chains: Aggro kill with Winter Orb, I can see this being replaced though.
Back To Basics: Against decks with nobasics this rocks. THis with Tabernacle will slaughter Zoo. Against decks like Landstill it helps aslot as well.
Arcane Lab: Storm combo, Gro, Gobbos. Pretty obivous
Chill: Burn,Gobbos
Tabernacle: Creature decks
That list is pretty solid. Any ideas are welcome though. So comments anyone?

[Lukas Preuss]

Have you tried either Meditate or Thirst for Knowledge? Both seem to have some advantages in a mono blue Stax deck.

[Eldariel]

Mmm, Force of Will with 12 other blue cards only seems very risky. Also, your deck seems to have a huge weakness to Aether Vial (you can't stop it, sans FoW, and a resolved one will destroy you eventually, since you have no way to stop it for good, and even with Orb/Tabernacle, one green guy gets to attack, and even Orb/Tabernacle/Propaganda leaves them the chance to wait for 2-32 turns and then attack), I definately think you'll need some Pithing Needles (also stops Wasteland when you want your Tabernacles to stick). Also, Stax without fast mana? It seems like it'll take you a while to get to game. You don't run Mox Diamond, Ancient Tomb OR City of Traitors, while you have the Crucibles to support them. Also, you aren't running Wastelands either, making Threshold much more difficult a match-up to you (along with the lack of a chance for turn 1 Chalice) with the lack of recurring Wastelands on your part. Fetches are your only way to passively benefit of Crucible, it seems like it's only a countermeasure for LD here.

Mmm, is Impulse really that good? For 1 more, you can Fabricate for any artifact, Transmute Artifact your almost-dead Tangle Wires into Smokestacks, Thirst for Knowledge, Intuition for any card in your deck, etc. Also, to me it seems like Brainstorm would be worlds better. Not only does it allow you to sculpt your hand, it'd actually give you a turn 1 play.

[Raider Bob]

I had played with this deck awhile ago and Lukas is right on the whole Meditate concept. Nothing is better than ramping up Smokestack and doing an EOT Meditate. It also has some synergy with Tangle Wire tho it isn't as devastating as the Smokestack +4 cards -4 permanants for your opponent. If you are a good Stacksplayer or a good player in general this is a very ez Mini Combo to play.

On the FoW comment you really need 16-18, 16 being the Min. for FoW to work properly. I am not sure where you would cut to add more Blue cards. One concept you may want to look at is looking at the Threshhold draw engine with Predict. I sugest this for one major reason. A it helps you cheat on your Manabase giving you more slots to play with. It also gives you a 19-20 count blue card list so Fow would own, but it would allow you to also play smaller counts of some of your 'Key' Elements in your stack list due to the drawing power and sifting power of this engine. Here would be a possible list.

4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Vision
4 Perdict
4 FoW
3 Daze/3 Meditate (I would say based on your metagame or Playtesting this is the right call.
3 Propaganda
-22 Blue Cards

4 Smokestack
4 Tanglewire
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ironmaiden
2 Karn Silver Golem

3 Tabernacle of Pendervale
14 Islands
3 Flooded Strands
3 Polluted Delta

The most apparent changes are the Lack of Winter Orb and the Lack of Chalice of the Void and the Addition of Karn Silver Golem. Karn gives the deck a new Kill Mechanic a second road to Victory is a very important ability for a deck to go from an ok Deck to a Very good Deck. The Addition of This draw engine makes Chalice detrimental to you and makes Winter orb detrimental also. The 6 Maindeck Critter Hate should be enough to slow down or stop most Aggro decks, you will still need a turn 1 FoW for Aether Vial or Lackey however. You will have a much better opportunity to cast such a spell however. I added more fetchlands as a deck thining reshuffling mechanic also, It should make Brainstorm a lot more efficient. Now Meditate or Daze is a Tuff call, I would say the more Cards you draw the better your Odds are of winning so go with Meditate. That and almost any player worth anything can Play around Daze. Anyway if you want to do a Blue version of Stax this maybe the right call or it maybe just another call.

[Bane of the Living]

I definitly dont like Iron Maiden as a win condition, especially if your not gonna run Chalice. The only card that would make me switch from mono U stax to a blue splash would be hatching plans. That's the only thing I would remotely care about. Stax doesnt need Force when it has turn 1 chalice to counter a good 8-12 cards out of the opponents deck. It doesnt need propaganda when it has ghostly prison. While winter orb is amazing you can play it just as easily in mono W. In white you gain wrath and suppresion field. Also the amazing exalted angel. Usually during a lock you can win with just about anything, but angel can come down morphed turn one with tomb, mox. It does happen, and when it does it's so busted.

One card you should consider if you want to continue and play a blue version is veldaken shackles. You usually only need 2-4 islands to make good use of it. Since you arent playing suppresion field you should go for it. Also consider Meloku as a win condition, very powerful and good synergies with stax.

I tried Karn in mono w and was disappointed with his skill of being a 0/8. Chump blocked by Birds of Paradise all day long!! Damn you birds, damn you.

[Lego]

Karn isn't that great a win condition in Legacy. Too much Red Zone happenings.

As for the deck, there's really no reason I can see to run it. At this point it's kind of like a cross between Mono-White Stax and Threshold, and seems to be taking the worst parts of both and throwing them together. Stax could use a draw engine, yes, but not at the detriment of lock pieces, especially the most important piece in the deck right now (Chalice). Your lack of real win conditions hurts (Exalted Angel) and you really need a better manabase. (Stax without Wasteland??? That's just CRAZY!)

EDIT: To reiterate, Stax just can't be good with 3rd turn Propaganda, 4th turn Tangle Wire, 5th turn Smokestack. Even with the permission to try to shore up the first few turns, the acellerants are what make Stax viable.

[Anusien]

Calling this deck Stax is like calling "Drain Power + Cateran Slaver" = "Drain Slaver". Yes, this runs Smokestack, but it actually misses out on the whole notion of the Stax deck.
Let's start with 20 lands that tap for mana, and 0 acceleration. Smokestack won't get to affect the board until turn 5, minimum. By then you could be dead, and Force of Will and Counterspell have been shown to be not enough to stop the Goblins horde. The whole point of running Chalice of the Void is to drop it turn 1 and you simply can't do that.
You don't have enough resource denial. No Wastelands, no Trinisphere, no Stasis. Against a control deck they will almost never tap to tap, and you only have 4 Smokestack which you can't force through at all.
Iron Maiden is an awful kill card. You're much better off with something like Time Vault that becomes useful.
Your goal should be to tap out every turn to create an unfavorable board state. Counterspell has negative synergy with that plan, and Impulse is bad bad bad. Top is better.
How to Play Stax (http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=25304.0)

[PunkRocker1134]

MonoBlue Stax
Lands(26):
3 Tabernacle
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
9 Island
3 Mox Diamond

Lock Pieces(23):
4 Winter Orb
4 Chalice
4 Propoganda
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
3 Crucible of Worlds

Win(3):
3 Meloku

Other(8):
4 Transmute Artifact
4 Daze

Hows that for a new list? I run More excel and a much better win condition. I like Fabricate more then any other cantrip and Daze and mana leak are pretty good when it comes to counters and they add to the stratagy. the lock pieces stade the same.
so

Ideas? Comments?

edit: hate to post two decklists but i tried out Stasis Stacks. Its an interesting consept but since I dont have much time heres a quick lists:

StasisStax

// Lands
3 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
6 [7E] Island (3)
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [PS] Forsaken City
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb

// Creatures
3 [CHK] Meloku the Clouded Mirror

// Spells
3 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [US] Smokestack
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [NE] Tangle Wire
4 [TE] Propaganda
3 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [NE] Daze
4 [B] Stasis
This is another reason to run blue. Stasis, now you have two options, Stasis or Staxs or a mix. Stasis with Propaganda or Tabernacle kicks. Sorry for the lack of explanation. Flame on!!

[Machinus]

Daze and mana leak are pretty good when it comes to cantrips

I invite you to join my existing (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2969) discussion of stax in Legacy.

[Anusien]

I feel that every single Stax deck in the format should start out like this:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mox Diamond
4 Wasteland
4 Smokestack
4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds

Those are the best cards we have available, and you need a fairly compelling reason to cut any of them.

Beyond that, counters are bad. You should be using permanants to (permanantly) stop your opponent from playing spells. Counters are 1 for 1, lock pieces are 1 for many. Also, in my How to Play Stax mini-article, I write why running draw is bad. In short, if you make it your stategy to add 2U to the cost of your best spells, you're going to get raced by aggro. Transmute Artifact is good, Fabricate is bad.

[PunkRocker1134]

Personnaly I prefer the counters. They protect the threats, but Blue also offers better sideboard options. Machinus Ill start posting there but I would prefer to keep this up and running as well.

[Eldariel]

The big question is, if you're tapping out for lockpieces each turn like you should be, how can you play your counters? FoW could be ok as it's free, but it requires a sufficient number of blue to support it. Else you've got dead cards too. Not to mention, FoW trades 1-for-2 in a deck with minimal capabilities to generate actual card advantage.

[PunkRocker1134]

I actually only run Daze now. Just to asnwer your question.

[Bane of the Living]

How is stasis good? You have no ways to really abuse it. Winter Orb is just as good at that point. You cant win or play more lock pieces with stasis out. I'd rather this be suppression field.

[Anusien]

How is stasis good? You have no ways to really abuse it. Winter Orb is just as good at that point. You cant win or play more lock pieces with stasis out. I'd rather this be suppression field.
This is why you should also be running Crucible of Worlds and Time Vault.

[Brushwagg]

Why not go White/Blue? I've been messing around a little with it and I like it.
I do like Suppression Feild alot. Which is missing from mono Blue. With all the Fetch Lands and non mana activated abilites now it's gold. I also liked Bob's idea of ramping up Smokestack EOT, Meditate and watch your opponent's board disappear.

Also mixing the 2 colors you get a better mix of sideboard options. A few come to mind Meddling Mage, Hanna's Custody(being run in mono white) also Hanna, Ship Navigator, and possibly some form of bounce IE: Capsize, Hibernation(GRO).

Hanna, Ship Navigator
1WU
Legendary Creature
P/T: 1/2
Rules Text (Oracle): 1WU,T: Return target artifact or enchantment card from your graveyard to your hand.
Not great but an option.

Here's a list I fooling around with it's more White based but I'm still working on it.

W/U Stax Basically Angel Stax with some blue added. I really don't like only drawing 1 card a turn.
Land/Mana
4x Ancient Tomb
1x City of Traitors
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Waste Land
2x Island
8x Plains
4x Mox Diamond

Lock
4x Smokestack
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinisphere
3x Tangle Wire
3x Suppression Field
2x Crucible of Worlds

Protection
3x Ghostly Prision/Propaganda
2x Wrath of God

Draw
3x Meditate
3x Thrist for Knowledge

Win
3x Exalted Angel

SB
Some meta game Cards.

I might end up cutting the WOG and putting in the sidebaord and adding Capsize, Boomerrang to the main. Now to answer the question before it's ask about Echoing Truth:It doesn't target land.

[Son_Gozen]

Well i tried my staxx build a bit different like this:

// Lands
3 Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
3 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
7 Island

// Creatures
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror

// Spells
3 Propaganda
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Tangle Wire
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Winter Orb
4 Hatching Plans

I have to say it´s really surprising how many decks get completely wrecked by Trinisphere + Winter Orb... And deck with many creatures can´t do that much with Winter Orb +Propaganda + Tabernacle . I liked the God's Eyes in the Maindeck they give me another Kill Option and are great food for the Stack...

[Cavius The Great]

I think mono blue stax can definitely benefit from the new Time Spiral card Paradox Haze. The card essential gives your opponent 2 upkeeps which means 1 extra permanent to sac for your opponent with a Smokestacks in play.

[Togit460]

Seems redunkulous, anything else out of Time Spiral that we should be aware of? Suspend wise? -peace, J.J.

[MysticBlue]

Seems redunkulous, anything else out of Time Spiral that we should be aware of? Suspend wise? -peace, J.J.
Chronatog Totem sounds like it might potentially find a place. It depends... mana source when required, eats turns when required...

3 Chronatog Totem
Artifact Uncommon
{T}: Add {U} to your mana pool.
1{U}: Chronatog Totem becomes a 1/2 blue Atog artifact creature until end of turn.
0: Chronatog Totem gets +3/+3 until end of turn. You skip your next turn. Play this ability only once each turn and only if Chronatog Totem is a creature.
Illus. Christopher Rush
#252/301

from http://www.mtgsalvation.com/spoiler/time-spiral/

Fixed up ~Nightmare

[fearphage]

Other cards to consider:

Academy Ruins
Legendary Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool
1U, T: Put target artifact card in your graveyard on the top of your library.

Assembly-Worker -- 3
Artifact Creature - Assembly-Worker
T: Target Assembly-Worker gets +1/+1 until end of turn.

Paradox Haze -- 2U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant player
At the beginning of enchanted player's first upkeep each turn, that player gets an additional upkeep step after this step.

Chronatog Totem (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?name=chronatog_totem) is only good with Smokestack or under a hard lock. He is not good as the sole win condition mostly because its a very slow clock and Pithing Needle was printed. Even an early one can be needled to prevent you from mounting an offensive. I'd rather play Paradox Haze (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?name=paradox_haze). Haze has good synergy with Smokestack and Tangle Wire. Mana Vortex (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?name=mana_vortex) is another card to combo with Haze and follows the goal of the deck. It may be too symetrical however without Haze or Crucible in place. I think Haze would make a non-creature kill condition more viable.

Assembly-Worker (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?name=assembly-worker) is an option assuming you are running 4 Mishra's Factory main deck. Otherwise they aren't too impressive. Academy Ruins (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?name=academy_ruins) is a good source for card advantage.

[Son_Gozen]

Actually i think Meditate as Draw is much better than Hatching Plans cuz Meditate lets my opponent sacrifice a Permanent more.. Chronatog Totem and Paradox Haze are Side Board Options. Paradox Haze is overkill and it´s only good against Goblins or other Beatdown Decks with more Permanents than us like Lands Ho... Academy Ruins can be there as a 2-of or 3-of i actually would go up to 61 cards and cut a Ancient Tomb for it.. The Problem with Mana Vortex is the UU to cast.. We are running fewer Blue Mana Sources than Faerie Stompy so it´s a real problem generating UU....

[Melwis]

I know i'm reviving this thread badly but I tought it would be better than to make a whole new thread regarding Blue Stax. Also, it's really silly because the latest discussion that was going on here is actually what I will be bringing up, namely Paradox Haze. Some time ago I decided to try and build a list that used this card to the max and to my surprise the list actually did pretty well. After a few tweaks here and there the list turned out like this:

// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
12 [ARE] Island (8)
4 [EX] City of Traitors
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb

// Spells
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
2 [MR] Fabricate
4 [TSP] Paradox Haze
4 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
4 [NE] Tangle Wire
4 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
2 [SOK] Blood Clock
4 [US] Smokestack
2 [MI] Energy Vortex

The most recent addition to the list is Blood Clock which has proved to be very good. Obviously it gets even better with PH(s) out and it's synergy with Tangle Wire is very nice.

Well, any questions are welcome and if you think some numbers are off please comment. Also, feel free to suggest new cards that you think might deserve spots in the deck but be sure to suggest what to remove aswell!

[dlg]

I'm trying to run this list at the next tournament :

6x Island [Version 4]
2x Seat of the Synod
2x Academy Ruins
3x Maze of Ith
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Mishra's Factory
4x City of Traitors
3x Wasteland
3x Smokestack
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinisphere
3x Tangle Wire
3x Crucible of Worlds
2x Chronatog Totem
4x Mox Diamond
4x Propaganda
2x Winter Orb
2x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Intuition
2x Tezzeret the Seeker

still no ideas for my sideboard (except a progenitus combo ;) )
any ideas/thoughts?

to melwis:

you dont need 4 paradox haze - you just want one ^^

[lorddotm]

I'm trying to run this list at the next tournament :

6x Island [Version 4]
2x Seat of the Synod
2x Academy Ruins
3x Maze of Ith
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Mishra's Factory
4x City of Traitors
3x Wasteland
3x Smokestack
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinisphere
3x Tangle Wire
3x Crucible of Worlds
2x Chronatog Totem
4x Mox Diamond
4x Propaganda
2x Winter Orb
2x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Intuition
2x Tezzeret the Seeker

still no ideas for my sideboard (except a progenitus combo ;) )
any ideas/thoughts?

to melwis:

you dont need 4 paradox haze - you just want one ^^

-Blue
+White

[Melwis]

to melwis:

you dont need 4 paradox haze - you just want one ^^

Huh?

PS: Some feedback and toughts on the list I recently posted is much appreciated!

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Why not try to just replicate White Stax with blue cards? I can just come up with a list too...

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
3 Smokestacks (because 4 is usually terrible)
3 Trinisphere (To prevent drawing multiples, Nothing Chalice cant handle until you draw one)
4 Sunder (Armageddon Effect, except, you can cast it at EOT, and make them discard to 7 cards)
4 Propoganda (Ghostly Prison)
4 Thirst for Knowledge (cuz this card Rocks...?)
2 Meloku, The Clouded Mirror
4 Force of Will (cuz there is more than 12 blue cards :) )
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tombs
3 Wastelands
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell vale
5 Snow Covered Island
4 Tropical Island
SB
3 Tarmogoyf (because no better way to not lose to tarmogoyf than to run your own )(plus this is Legacy)).
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Diving Top
3 Stifle
3 Daze

You just phase them into siding in Artifact hate, and then you destroy them with Threshold... It's really not a terrible idea. The only problem I potentially see is not having a good number on top with counterbalance.

Sunder is a very underpowered card. What is everyones thoughts on Ponders? is there any Tech Blue Card that serves a close to same purpose as Magus of the Tabernacle?

[chokin]

Why not try to just replicate White Stax with blue cards? I can just come up with a list too...

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
3 Smokestacks (because 4 is usually terrible)
3 Trinisphere (To prevent drawing multiples, Nothing Chalice cant handle until you draw one)
4 Sunder (Armageddon Effect, except, you can cast it at EOT, and make them discard to 7 cards)
4 Propoganda (Ghostly Prison)
4 Thirst for Knowledge (cuz this card Rocks...?)
2 Meloku, The Clouded Mirror
4 Force of Will (cuz there is more than 12 blue cards :) )
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tombs
3 Wastelands
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell vale
5 Snow Covered Island
4 Tropical Island
SB
3 Tarmogoyf (because no better way to not lose to tarmogoyf than to run your own )(plus this is Legacy)).
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Diving Top
3 Stifle
3 Daze

You just phase them into siding in Artifact hate, and then you destroy them with Threshold... It's really not a terrible idea. The only problem I potentially see is not having a good number on top with counterbalance.

Sunder is a very underpowered card. What is everyones thoughts on Ponders? is there any Tech Blue Card that serves a close to same purpose as Magus of the Tabernacle?

Holy bad list Batman! Force of Will lacks synergy with Trinisphere. Meloku and Tabernacle go against each other too. Transformational sideboards don't really work either.

Smokestack is amazing. 4 of now. I don't know where you came up with the idea that 4 is bad. Setting up a softlock with Crucible, Smokestack and 1 land is pretty damn nuts. Why deny yourself a copy?

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Holy bad list Batman! Force of Will lacks synergy with Trinisphere. Meloku and Tabernacle go against each other too. Transformational sideboards don't really work either.

Smokestack is amazing. 4 of now. I don't know where you came up with the idea that 4 is bad. Setting up a softlock with Crucible, Smokestack and 1 land is pretty damn nuts. Why deny yourself a copy?

Pssst... The Sideboard was a joke....

I put absolutely no thought into the Deck, I just started thinking of similar cards.... Ive played stax for about 3-4 Years, and I just cant play 4 smokestax.... It just doesnt do it for me. The most I ever run is 3. Drawing Multiples Early, depending on the opponenet, can be very bad (it does work though). Its not that It is a very bad thing to run 3 or 4, I just cant find more room in any of the stax decs I play....

[Jedi Knight]

Get Em Bobby...Don't let this dude talk shit to the stax Master...Snoogins

[sco0ter]

I'd like to suggest Thopter Spy Network for this deck. I've tested it in a similar deck like this and it performed quite well.

Synergy with Smokestack, card draw, win condition and helps to survive against creatures.