SCG Louisville -20/32 Eldrazi

[Ace/Homebrew]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=28&start_date=2/202016&end_date=02/21/2016&start=1&finish=32&event_ID=47&city=Louisville&state=KY&country=US&limit=50

Wow... :eek:

There are 6 flavors but all build upon the same shell.
5 Affinity, 7 Other.

[Kathal]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=28&start_date=2/202016&end_date=02/21/2016&start=1&finish=32&event_ID=47&city=Louisville&state=KY&country=US&limit=50

Wow... :eek:

There are 6 flavors but all build upon the same shell.
5 Affinity, 7 Other.

It is just occupying 62,5% of the top 32 places Kappa

Day 2 metagame share was 31/64 = 48,4%


Just saying.

Greetings,
Kathal

PS: For myself I will try to avoid to play on any Modern event pre April bannings.

[sjmcc13]

I am curious where those players were in the standings at the end of day 1, or more specifically what were the stats for the top 32 at the end of day 1.

However, we also need to consider that the SCG scene tends to have allot of players copying whatever list just won/is being hyped (and SCG has been hyping eldrazi), and the creature base for Eldrazi is Std. legal (from sets that were heavily opened due to chasing those rare shiny lands) with no mythics making it cheap and easy to assemble, so if you already have the eyes building the decks quickly is not very hard (when the lists came out from the PT I looked at them and was missing 1 urborg and the side board gut shots which I thought I had somewhere towards able to build either of the 3 types in the top 8)

The main problem is not eldrazi but that modern does not have the density of strong control or combo decks at the moment to counterbalance the aggro decks, and eldrazi is the best aggro deck at the moment. Wizards threw a major monkey wrench in the gears right as eldrazi came in, and the aggro decks are the only ones who have had time to adapt so far.

Another part of the problem is modern seems to be too dependent on targeted sideboard cards that kill 1-2 decks and are useless elsewhere. which means you either run out of space, or run to many 1-2 ofs in your board to reliably draw the hate.

[iamajellydonut]

However, we also need to consider that the SCG scene tends to have allot of players copying whatever list just won/is being hyped (and SCG has been hyping eldrazi), and the creature base for Eldrazi is Std. legal (from sets that were heavily opened due to chasing those rare shiny lands) with no mythics making it cheap and easy to assemble, so if you already have the eyes building the decks quickly is not very hard (when the lists came out from the PT I looked at them and was missing 1 urborg and the side board gut shots which I thought I had somewhere towards able to build either of the 3 types in the top 8)

I mean, do we really need to consider "hype" when Eldrazi legitimately is the best deck in the format?

[H]

This certainly seems like another Survival-era thing again.

Slightly different in the sense that Eye really is broken in Modern, but rather than build other decks to beat Eldrazi, people are just building Eldrazi to beat Eldrazi.

Eye will be banned. The only question is how much face do they want to save, versus how much profit they want to make. That will determine if it comes down with Shadows (i.e. before Oath is OOP) or they wait until Oath really is OOP.

I am pretty sure they want that latter, but results like this might force their hand.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

It would be nonsense if they don't do anything in April. What reasonable argument is there for leaving eldrazi in the format as is when the current banlist includes the cards it does? I'm pretty confident it's treasure cruising it's way out of here in a couple months.

[rufus]

... What reasonable argument is there for leaving eldrazi in the format as is when the current banlist includes the cards it does?...

The reasons that I can come up with have to do with venal motivations, or that WotC is not a particularly agile company. Maybe they've already printed a bunch of eldrazi hate chase cards in the next set and are just waiting to publish.

[H]

The reasons that I can come up with have to do with venal motivations, or that WotC is not a particularly agile company. Maybe they've already printed a bunch of eldrazi hate chase cards in the next set and are just waiting to publish.

If they want to perpetuate the cash grab, yes, a statement like "we are aware that Eldrazi are currently preforming disproportially in Modern, however, we will wait and see how the meta reacts to the new cards in Shadows" could be made. Or some other nonsense like that, to keep the sales rolling until Oath is OOP.

[nedleeds]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=28&start_date=2/202016&end_date=02/21/2016&start=1&finish=32&event_ID=47&city=Louisville&state=KY&country=US&limit=50

Wow... :eek:

There are 6 flavors but all build upon the same shell.
5 Affinity, 7 Other.

Brainstorm, Ponder, Force of Will, Blue Fetches wave hello.

[Megadeus]

Eye of Ugin shouldn't be banned. It's a pillar of the format.

[Kathal]

Eye of Ugin shouldn't be banned. It's a pillar of the format.

Pointing at Twin.

Greetings,
Kathal

PS: Just because something is a pillar won't make it safe vs a ban.

[Timber]

I don't get the whole "leaving Eldrazi as a deck in Modern makes WotC lots of money" argument. Can someone explain that to me? Are competitive players really buying booster packs of OGW to get Eldrazi Mimics and Reality Smashers? I don't see anyone interested in playing a broken deck in competitive tournaments buying booster packs like a very casual player.

Also, ugh to the stats from SCG Louisville. I'm about 90% not attending GP Detroit.

[H]

I don't get the whole "leaving Eldrazi as a deck in Modern makes WotC lots of money" argument. Can someone explain that to me? Are competitive players really buying booster packs of OGW to get Eldrazi Mimics and Reality Smashers? I don't see anyone interested in playing a broken deck in competitive tournaments buying booster packs like a very casual player.

Also, ugh to the stats from SCG Louisville. I'm about 90% not attending GP Detroit.

Well, no, they don't buy boosters. But if vendors want to have Mimics (and the rest) in stock, where else are they going to get them but boosters?

Maybe this sounds rude, but I'm not sure how conceptualize sales in a way that the singles market for a brand new set doesn't drive booster sales.

[sjmcc13]

I don't get the whole "leaving Eldrazi as a deck in Modern makes WotC lots of money" argument. Can someone explain that to me? Are competitive players really buying booster packs of OGW to get Eldrazi Mimics and Reality Smashers? I don't see anyone interested in playing a broken deck in competitive tournaments buying booster packs like a very casual player.

Also, ugh to the stats from SCG Louisville. I'm about 90% not attending GP Detroit.

Competitive players who are not also collectors are going to buy the singles.
The single have to come from opened booster packs.
Packs have to be opened in order to support the demand.

Compeative players are not buying packs directly, but they are still supporting booster purchases.
Buying singles from casuals/drafters usually ends up going into the entry for their next draft, and helping them justify the money on their hobby.
Buying singles from merchants supports the merchant who probably got the card from opening product, or from a casual player/drafter as trade.

Demand for in print and currently being drafted cards helps fuel drafts of that product, which produces sales for WotC.
It is the out of print cards that competitive player demand does not noticeably increase WotC profit margins, but even then there is probably a small increase from a few casuals finding the card in their binders/boxes and trading it in to pay for a draft.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Brainstorm, Ponder, Force of Will, Blue Fetches wave hello.
Well... when you put it that way, I guess the format is fine. :tongue:

[Timber]

Buying singles from merchants supports the merchant who probably got the card from opening product, or from a casual player/drafter as trade.


EDIT: deleted comment about limited supply of Eldrazi Temples; I didn't realize that Eldrazi Temple was an uncommon. Nevermind, there's a near unlimited amount of Temples available and still lots of Eyes, so the lands aren't the supply choke point.

[Ricardio]

Eldrazi in modern is an infectious disease. Its killing off everyones desire to play and will inevitably lead to a tipping point.

If they ban Eye in April and not temple, the other way around or both: things can smooth out a bit.
If they don't ban them and milk out the printings, modern will regress into extended.
If they YUGIOH it and print cards to specifically hate out eldrazi like so kind of back woods, inbreeding attempt, shit will hit the fan and force everyone out.

For me, I will only play a fun deck(RG ScapeTrapBreach) in small events and keep Jund in my room till eldrazi is gone or its smart of me to sell out of this falling format.

ALSO: temple was a in clash deck or something. infinite supply.

EDIT: Infiltrated Timber's safe zone

[Timber]

Don't compare dumb stuff like trading cards to cancer.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I'm disappointed in the no emergency ban statement by Aaron Forsythe. They really dropped the ball on this one, how hard is it to see that 8 sol lands in Modern is more broken than anything ever was before this? They've gotten a completely fucked up SCG metagame to prove it's out of control. Why do people insist there's a counter to everything and we should let the metagame settle? Sometimes it isn't just people jumping on a bandwagon because it's the flavor of the month, sometimes it's because there is an insurmountable power differential between decks.

I'm not going to Modern tournaments until it's banned, and I've seen plenty more who share the sentiment. I don't want to play with or against a broken lands deck in Modern because the format has no checks and balances for that type of thing. Turn 3 Fulminator Mage? Blood Moon? Any strategy that would heavily attempt to stop the broken lands is going to eat it to a bunch of free Eldrazi Mimics on turn 1 anyway.

[Ricardio]

I'm disappointed in the no emergency ban statement by Aaron Forsythe. They really dropped the ball on this one, how hard is it to see that 8 sol lands in Modern is more broken than anything ever was before this? They've gotten a completely fucked up SCG metagame to prove it's out of control. Why do people insist there's a counter to everything and we should let the metagame settle? Sometimes it isn't just people jumping on a bandwagon because it's the flavor of the month, sometimes it's because there is an insurmountable power differential between decks.

I'm not going to Modern tournaments until it's banned, and I've seen plenty more who share the sentiment. I don't want to play with or against a broken lands deck in Modern because the format has no checks and balances for that type of thing. Turn 3 Fulminator Mage? Blood Moon? Any strategy that would heavily attempt to stop the broken lands is going to eat it to a bunch of free Eldrazi Mimics on turn 1 anyway.

There have definitely been more busted things in modern than this, trust me. Insisting there is a counter somewhere is lazier than quitting/playing eldrazi till they ban it.

I wouldn't quit modern cold turkey but I would not go to a large event. fulm is too slow on t3 and often times moon is just too slow as well.

[Timber]

. . . how hard is it to see that 8 sol lands in Modern is more broken than anything ever was before this?

Second.

[Phoenix Ignition]

There have definitely been more busted things in modern than this, trust me.

What a silly post. Why would I trust you when you could have actually proven your point with a direct example?

I've been playing Modern from the beginning as well, and there hasn't been anything as busted as this. Punishing Groves combo? Nowhere near as broken. Green Sun Zenith? Oppressive, but not 50% of a day 2 metagame oppressive. Birthing Pod? The best deck for sure at its time, but not by this much. 8post? Not quite as bad, they at least needed to get past turn 3 while building their manabase to really start breaking parity. Amulet Bloom? That deck was dumb as shit but not nearly consistent enough to make this kind of impact. Splinter Twin? Not even that great.

[Ricardio]

What a silly post. Why would I trust you when you could have actually proven your point with a direct example?

I've been playing Modern from the beginning as well, and there hasn't been anything as busted as this. Punishing Groves combo? Nowhere near as broken. Green Sun Zenith? Oppressive, but not 50% of a day 2 metagame oppressive. Birthing Pod? The best deck for sure at its time, but not by this much. 8post? Not quite as bad, they at least needed to get past turn 3 while building their manabase to really start breaking parity. Amulet Bloom? That deck was dumb as shit but not nearly consistent enough to make this kind of impact. Splinter Twin? Not even that great.

BLAZING INFECT.

You sir, are silly. (removes silk glove and smacks Phoenix on the beak. glove bursts into flames)

[Phoenix Ignition]

BLAZING INFECT.


Close, but required more to go right. It didn't have nearly the metagame presence, and more cards answered it. Obviously deserved the ban as well.

[Lord Seth]

I'm disappointed in the no emergency ban statement by Aaron Forsythe.I'm not. In fact, I'm relieved that they're sticking with only banning things at the proper times so that people can at least be secure in their decks between announcements. The out-of-nowhere Splinter Twin ban already made me lose a lot of confidence in any deck being safe, and them saying I can't even be secure between announcements would probably drive me off completely.

Though I'm not sure why anyone would expect an emergency ban to begin with, considering they have never banned cards between banning announcements ever (Memory Jar, while usually called an "emergency ban," was only an emergency in that they announced it later than usual, not that the ban itself happened between announcements).

[sjmcc13]

Eldrazi in modern is an infectious disease. Its killing off everyones desire to play and will inevitably lead to a tipping point.
Eldrazi is a symptom, not the disease.
The root cause lies in how modern is treated and how WotC goes about designing cards.

The biggest problems are the turn 4 rule (needs to go as if aggro decks are killing on turn 4 sometimes 3 a combo that is only reliable for turn 4 and might not b able to go off until later is too slow to bother playing), and the lack of necessary cards for decent control strategy to emerge (many missing for no reason other then bad feels).

The health of MtG always rested on the balance of Aggro, Control and Combo stratagems and their hybrids. In modern wizards has castrated any strategy that does not include aggro. leaving us with nothing but aggro and hybrid-aggro decks in the format, and he best aggro deck against other aggro decks will naturally rise to the top. Right now that is Eldrazi because wizards pushed them way to much (several are undercosted like mimic which should either require colorless mana or be at least 3 mana, probably both) and did not have the common sense to check how they interacted with the older eldrazi cards like the ones they re-printed in MM2015 last year.

People have been complaining about issues with modern for years, Eldrazi is just the consequence of some of those issues running rampant.

[Ricardio]

I believe it may be an overreaction by wotc. Seeing how blue is the single best color in legacy but the single worst color in modern is blue, they make every attempt to push it down and keep it down. I am more green mage than the next guy but I think a balance to the color pie in formats is very necessary. Blue is also the weakest color in standard barring jace but then again, who cares.

[Lord Seth]

I believe it may be an overreaction by wotc. Seeing how blue is the single best color in legacy but the single worst color in modern is blue, they make every attempt to push it down and keep it down. I am more green mage than the next guy but I think a balance to the color pie in formats is very necessary. Blue is also the weakest color in standard barring jace but then again, who cares.I think you misspelled White.

[Ricardio]

I think you misspelled White.

I am fairly certain blue is the most underperforming color currently as well as the weakest. There is no top tier blue deck. Every other color is represented.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I am fairly certain blue is the most underperforming color currently as well as the weakest. There is no top tier blue deck. Every other color is represented.

You have no idea how refreshing this actually is after spending most of my time playing a format that's 80% blue. I also look forward to people claiming 4+ different color combinations of Eldrazi isn't diversity but 4+ different color combinations of Delver is. They share the same shell, but they're completely different!

[Ricardio]

You have no idea how refreshing this actually is after spending most of my time playing a format that's 80% blue. I also look forward to people claiming 4+ different color combinations of Eldrazi isn't diversity but 4+ different color combinations of Delver is. They share the same shell, but they're completely different!

Delver decks and eldrazi decks operate on the same core of cards. One is temple and eye, the other is daze and stifle(hymn)

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

There has been a blue deck in every modern pro tour final iirc.

[Kathal]

I am fairly certain blue is the most underperforming color currently as well as the weakest. There is no top tier blue deck. Every other color is represented.

LOL

So, till some weeks ago there was always at least one U centric deck in Tier one, most of the times a combination of: Merfolk, Twin, Delver, Grixis Control/Midrange, Jeskai Control/Midrange, Storm and a couple others (like UW Control)

Heck, even atm the best Eldrazi deck is a Ux based version, since Drowner of Hope is just bonkers in the Mirror. Merfolk is again a Tier 1 deck even in the current T0 infested Eldrazi meta.

Now, we look at white. The only W decks which have done well in the past and were part of the Tier one was: Junk, BW Tokens, Abzan Company, Melira Pod and Jeskai Control

Atm only Abzan Company is viable, everything else is either banned (Pod) or just gets stomped by Eldrazi. And even in that deck it plays W only for the SB cards and Path to Exile (along some bullet creatures, which also exist in B).


Even when we are talking about the history, W was always the most underperforming colour in Modern, the only time it really saw play was last year after the Pro Tour with Abzan (because Lingering Souls was such a good card in that metagame).


Also, saying that U has the weakest cards in Modern is nonsense. Snapcaster, Serum Visions, Cryptic, Remand and Mana Leak are one of the strongest cards we have. Also, there are a ton of decent U cards too, like Jace Architect of Thought, Delver, Condescend, Repeal, Echoing Truth, Dispel, Negate, Vendillion Clique, Spreading Seas,... . When we are talking about Ux cards, there is Electrolyze, Supreme Verdict and the manlands (Tarpit and Collonade) and several other decent cards (e.g. Esper Charm and Countersquall).

W has: Lingering Souls, Path, Kitchen Finks (kinda) and Resto Angel as MD cards. However, the W SB cards are bonkers in Kor Firewalker, Worship, Timely Reinforcement, Stony Silence, Kataki, Suppression Field, Aven Mindscencor, Rest in Peace and a couple more.

Matter of fact: If you are running W in Modern it is 90% of the times because of the great SB cards.

Greetings,
Kathal

[Seraphix]

I am fairly certain blue is the most underperforming color currently as well as the weakest. There is no top tier blue deck. Every other color is represented.

This appears to be the case now (Blue was indeed astonishingly unrepresented at the last PT), but hasn't been historically.

UWR Control, RUG Scapeshift, Twin, and Pyromancer's Ascension have been staples of the Modern format basically since its inception. As Kathal points out, there are many good Blue cards for Modern.

Also, comparisons of Eldrazi's dominance to Brainstorm's in Legacy aren't quite fair. The different Eldrazi decks have a lot more in common than the different Brainstorm decks. I can see the comparison to the flavors of Delver specifically, but while we may see 20/32 Brainstorm decks, we never see that penetration of Delver decks.

[rufus]

This appears to be the case now (Blue was indeed astonishingly unrepresented at the last PT), but hasn't been historically.

You mean the one where there were 0 (yes 0) white cards in the top 8?

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/ptogw/top-8-decklists-2016-02-06

As Patrick Sullivan said, until there are more white cards than blue cards in modern, 'blue underperformance' is just a joke.

[Lord Seth]

There has been a blue deck in every modern pro tour final iirc.Yep. Although, in fairness, until the current one there was always a Green deck, and even including the current one there's always been a Red deck.

[sjmcc13]

Yep. Although, in fairness, until the current one there was always a Green deck, and even including the current one there's always been a Red deck.
There was 1 green card in 1 of the eldrazi lists...

[Meekrab]

Eye of Ugin shouldn't be banned. It's a pillar of the format.
I can't tell which level of sarcasm this is intented to be, but I like it.