PDA

View Full Version : [Primer] Eldrazi Stompy



Pages : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Fuzzers
04-21-2016, 01:00 PM
Hey Barook, I'm looking into testing this deck and I'm most impressed with your list, I was wondering if you have a recommendation for a substitute to the 3rd Karakas in the board? I only have 2 available at the moment, but I want to try and test as close as possible to what you've been having success with to see what the deck has to offer.

Thanks :)

metronome2charisma
04-21-2016, 07:03 PM
Hi everyone!

I've been working on building Eldrazi for a couple of weeks now, and I've been lurking on this thread looking to learn the ins and outs. I finally solidified my 75 last night, so I thought it was time to get feedback. I also have a few questions about the archetype.

First, here's what I'm starting with:

4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Endless One
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
3x Eldrazi Displacer
2x Elvish Spirit Guide
1x Endbringer

4x Chalice of the Void
2x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Dismember
2x Warping Wail

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x City of Traitors
3x Cavern of Souls
3x Eye of Ugin
3x Corrupted Crossroads
3x Mishra's Factory
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:
3x Grim Monolith
2x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Worldbreaker
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Dismember
3x All is Dust

As you can see, I landed on the WG splash. I understand Displacer does a lot of work to shore up tough match-ups like BUG and Sneak-Show. I know I'm missing Karakas and Jitte. Unfortunately, I don't have the capital for Karakas at the moment. Jitte I will be working on getting, the card is far too powerful to exclude - I am not expecting a mirror match at my local meta, so I should be able to work around that for the time being. I'm hoping to see reprints of both those cards in Eternal Masters, but we'll have to wait and see about that.

- I'm a little ambivalent about Urborg. I'm seeing chatter that this card tends to help our opponents. Should I consider cutting this card for another Corrupted Crossroads?
- Speaking of Corrupted Crossroads, is there any consensus on whether this or Brushlands works better in this deck?
- I wanted to run a full playset of Thorn in the main - I feel like that would punish a lot of decks in Legacy, but once I decided to include Eldrazi Displacer, I had to cut 2x Thorns to the sideboard. Should I even be running 4x Thorns in the 75? Cutting the 2x Thorns out of the board would open up slots for something like Phyrexian Revoker, or Pithing Needle.

Any feedback you guys could offer would be much appreciated! Thanks!

Hey man congrats on building the best deck in the format! First things first. 6 white sources is not enough but turning the elvish spirit guides into lotus petals would help. Secondly karakas is important you should have at least 1 in the 60, i would make that a priority when you can. After playing the deck a bunch you start to realize that you don't need 4 thorn , 2 is plenty. ( i'm running 2 trinisphere and no thorn main deck)
I rock 1 urborg just so i can run leyline of the void cuz to be real when i want graveyard hate i want it in play turn one but against decks i don't have to aggressively mulligan for it its nice to actually be able to cast the card. and for taping tombs without taking 2 and the interaction with eye of ugin is nice, not really important but nice.
Good luck getting it all together and have fun, the deck is a blast.

darkgh0st
04-21-2016, 10:59 PM
For Reference: Corrupted Crossroads

metronome2charisma
04-21-2016, 11:42 PM
For Reference: Corrupted Crossroads

EDITED. thanks , i thought that could be the card.

Barook
04-22-2016, 07:35 AM
Well, this league run was less exceptional: 3-2, same list as always.

R1: Lost to BUG Delver 1-2 (G2 I had a shitty draw while he had 2x Hymn + Wasteland, G3 he had all the topdecks he needed
R2: Burn 2-0
R3: BUG Delver 2-0
R4: Miracles 2-0
R5: UR Burn 1-2 (he scoops G1 T1 after he sees that I'm on Eldrazi. I have no idea what he was on. G2 I almost had lethal before I go from 17 to exactly 0 due to Bolt + Price of Progress. This sucks. G3 I lose to double TNN I can't get through. Losing like this sucks.)

Edit: Magical Christmasland (http://i.imgur.com/qk8f1fB.jpg) :laugh:

@Fuzzers: If you don't have a 3rd Karakas, I would probably run Wastes or other anti-Blood Moon tech in that spot.

As for Corrupted Crossroads, I don't think it really matters since both are functionally the same in the deck. Brushland makes it more likely to put you on Containment Priest post-board.

Edit #2: From the R4 Miracle game: Things you really don't want to see in your opponent's hand G1 (http://i.imgur.com/f45uXuH.jpg) - and I still won that game.

f7eleven
04-22-2016, 09:51 AM
@barook - How often are you playing a 2/2 Endless One on the first turn as your only play? I've been leaning toward holding it to play larger on future turns unless it allows me to play multiple creatures on turn 1.

Also, have you had situations where you blink your own TKS, perhaps twice in one turn? Like a negative looting effect for the opponent.

Kami
04-22-2016, 10:44 AM
I faced a turn 1 blood moon vs sneak and show, and manage to win (i was on play). This deck is amazing

2/2 endless depends on your opponent deck i think. If he is not able to handle early pressure, it's a good call. But if you have multiples t1 creatures, it's a good bet too

Drake0525
04-22-2016, 10:48 AM
@barook - How often are you playing a 2/2 Endless One on the first turn as your only play? I've been leaning toward holding it to play larger on future turns unless it allows me to play multiple creatures on turn 1.

Also, have you had situations where you blink your own TKS, perhaps twice in one turn? Like a negative looting effect for the opponent.It just occurred to me, you could flicker a TKS in response to a miracle trigger - and exile the Terminus/Entreat before they can cast it.

Barook
04-22-2016, 11:07 AM
It just occurred to me, you could flicker a TKS in response to a miracle trigger - and exile the Terminus/Entreat before they can cast it.
Yes, that works, but I don't think it has ever come up for me as they always killed either part of the combo before it became relevant.

@f7eleven: Rarely, although I double blinked TKS sometimes in the past with various builds.


I faced a turn 1 blood moon vs sneak and show, and manage to win (i was on play). This deck is amazing

2/2 endless depends on your opponent deck i think. If he is not able to handle early pressure, it's a good call. But if you have multiples t1 creatures, it's a good bet too
How did you pull that off? Mimics/Endless Ones?

I agree it depends on your hands and the decks you play against. E.g. against Shardless BUG, a flooded board is the last thing they want to face early on.

Drake0525
04-22-2016, 11:33 AM
I agree it depends on your hands and the decks you play against. E.g. against Shardless BUG, a flooded board is the last thing they want to face early on.Actually this prompts another question on my part. I'm trying to work out correct spell sequence. T1, do I play threats or lock pieces first?

Usually, I would play lock pieces first, but this deck is much more aggressive than anything else I've ever piloted, so now I'm not sure.

Barook
04-22-2016, 11:38 AM
Actually this prompts another question on my part. I'm trying to work out correct spell sequence. T1, do I play threats or lock pieces first?

Usually, I would play lock pieces first, but this deck is much more aggressive than anything else I've ever piloted, so now I'm not sure.
You need a very good reason not to play lock pieces T1. It's your bread & butter to screw over alot of decks.

f7eleven
04-22-2016, 12:41 PM
You need a very good reason not to play lock pieces T1. It's your bread & butter to screw over alot of decks.

opening hand of 2x mimic, tomb, eye, chalice - on the play game 1 vs unknown opponent. is THAT a good enough reason? what if the hand also has a TKS? what if the tomb is a city of traitors instead?

Barook
04-22-2016, 01:30 PM
I would still play Chalice @1 in the first case.
Second case I would go for the Mimics since you still have disruption on T2. The chance to get killed on T1 is rather low against random opponents.
Third case would probably be Mimics first as you keep your City that way.

Those are my thoughts on the particular lines.

Today isn't my lucky day, I guess. Another 3-2:

R1: ANT 2-1
R2: GW Enchantress 2-0
R3: Hexmage Depths 1-2 (what a terrible match-up)
R4: Miracles 1-2 (that one stung - blind topdecked Mentor just after I AiDs the board G2 into double top, topdecked several turns blindly like a god G3. But then again, I stole alot of games due to topdeck luck myself, so I won't complain. :wink: )
R5: Grixis Delver 2-0

I'm still very satisfied with the list. Bad match-ups or luck are part of Magic, too. Can't win everything.

dave8
04-23-2016, 04:54 AM
I cant imagine how you won against enchantress. It is impossible to win imo.

Barook
04-23-2016, 05:11 AM
I cant imagine how you won against enchantress. It is impossible to win imo.
It isn't easy or a particular good match-up, but doable.

G1 I had T1 CotV @1 on the play, followed up by double TKS T2 & T3, but he had only 1-drops anyway aside from his Enchantress and died a swift death.
G2 he got a Confinement down, but ran out of gas eventually despite double draw effects. I would have gotten World Breaker two turns later anyway to remove it and swing for lethal anyway.

And early Chalice is great because it slows them down massively. A timely All is Dust is also great if you draw it.

DavidHernandez
04-23-2016, 08:33 AM
I beat Enchantress two weeks in a row vs good players. All Is Dust is critical in your board, and Chalice on one is important. I run two Phyrexian Revoker main and name Helm of Obedience against them. You can win through Blood Moon as well. I run one Wastes main.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

Drake0525
04-23-2016, 01:23 PM
Question for you guys!

I'm curious about Anti Blood Moon tech. I see a lot of chatter about running Wastes in the sideboard. I'll admit it, I've been badmouthing that card since it was printed but... it does solve the Blood Moon problem, it can't be countered, or Wastelanded. I've never had land cards in the sideboard of a deck before, it always seemed like a good way to shoot yourself in the foot haha. If I was to try running Wastes instead of Grim Monolith, what do I board out when the time comes?

Barook
04-23-2016, 01:33 PM
Another league run, 4-1:

R1: GW Mirror, my build 2-1
R2: Some kind of BG Suicide Zombies 2-0
R3: Mono C (?) Eldrazi 2-0
R4: UR Delver 1-2 (kept a risky hand G2 and got manascrewed, G3 i got killed by Delver blindflipping one of his 2 PoP - probably could have won the damage race if I had sequenced differently :rolleyes: )
R5: Miracles 2-1 (lost G1 due to manascrew while my opponent drew like a machine, G2 I got tripple Mimic with a potential T2 kill, but went for the safe route with uncounterable T3 Smasher instead (he had FoW), G3 was won by Eye fetching Smasher + Warping Wail his Entreat)

Was an Ok run, probably could have gone 5-0 if I had played R4 better. At least something learned for the future in terms of sequencing:
Hindsight is 20/20 (http://i.imgur.com/e6j4ayb.jpg)

My line of though here was creating a 4/4 which he can't bolt while also swinging for 4. What I should have actually done is play Cavern T2, swing for 3 while taking 2 less damage and play Tomb + Smasher next turn. It's those little things.

DavidHernandez
04-23-2016, 01:47 PM
It isn't easy or a particular good match-up, but doable.

G1 I had T1 CotV @1 on the play, followed up by double TKS T2 & T3, but he had only 1-drops anyway aside from his Enchantress and died a swift death.
G2 he got a Confinement down, but ran out of gas eventually despite double draw effects. I would have gotten World Breaker two turns later anyway to remove it and swing for lethal anyway.

And early Chalice is great because it slows them down massively. A timely All is Dust is also great if you draw it.
our guys are running Sterling Grove so their enchantments have shroud. All Is Dust is the key after chalice on one. A second chalice on two shuts down RIP/Energy Field.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

DavidHernandez
04-23-2016, 02:10 PM
@barook:
I've been testing your list. I think you can drop 1 Worldbreaker and the Displacer from the board. From the main, remove a Matter Reshaper and add a fourth Displacer. Add two Wastes to the board. I think it might need an additional white producing mana source to work. Might have to drop a Mishra's for a Brushland.

I played a four round tournament on Thursday and lost two matches to frustrating mana screw. I run 26 lands and managed to pull none or one even with mulligans to four cards. So frustrating, but that's probability for you.



Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

maraxusofkelds
04-23-2016, 03:55 PM
It just occurred to me, you could flicker a TKS in response to a miracle trigger - and exile the Terminus/Entreat before they can cast it.

Doing it on your opponents draw step every turn when you have board position is like a better fateseal. Exile their best draw every turn. I do it less vs white decks in case I need it as a response to swords though.

Barook
04-23-2016, 04:44 PM
Another league run, but this one had the worst luck ever, 1-4:

R1: BUG Delver (with red for Bolts) 0-2 (ridiculous good draws - when even a T0 Leyline + T1 Chalice + T2 uncounterable TKS isn't enough to stop him in the slightest, you know the luck isn't on your side)
R2: Miracles 0-2 (had all the right answers at the right time, Mentor build)
R3: Sneak & Show with Omni 1-2 (G1 he had a T2 kill with S&T --> Omni --> Grisel --> draw, Emra, dead. He did the same thing in G3, except on T1, on the play. :rolleyes: )
R4: TITI BUG 1-2 (didn't really know how to play against it, also got pretty unlucky)
R5: 12 Post 2-0

Serious blow to my win percentage and my rating. Can't always win, but losing like this still sucks, especially the S&T match.

metronome2charisma
04-23-2016, 07:55 PM
Played a gpt today in Lancaster. Pretty boring report really.

Rd 1 esper stoneblade. He wins the roll i mulligan to 5 and he thoughtseizes me . i have two land ,two mimics , and a smasher, he takes the mimic, then surgical the other one .i top deck an end bringer ,he thought seizes again takes the smasher , plays a brainstorm. I top deck a tks play it take his stp .Next run i draw a land and play end bringer and win shortly after. Game two he wins after 2 wastelands. Game three chalice, win. (2-1)
Rd 2 Death and taxes .He gets a game loss for a deck reg error. Gm 2 i mull to 5 he wastelands me out after a turn one vial , i don't recover. Gm 3 i revoker turn 1 name vial he plays wasteland and passes. I play a tks . I see a hand of all white spells ,i take an stp and attack. Next turn he plays a Rishadan port i play and equip Jitte. (2-1)
Rd 3-4 we i.d. into top 8
TOP8
miracles Gm 1. He has an answer to my first 3 threats, i draw SEVEN land in a row. Gm 2 He has force/ blue card for chalice and thorn, snap caster -swords for my smasher and end bringer , then lands jace . I draw 4 land then dismember, he entreats for 4 , i die. got 5th.

josch6083
04-24-2016, 05:39 AM
Hey everyone,

Went 5-0 on a local tournament yesterday.
Played against DnT, infect, Rug Delver, maverick and elves.
MVPs were wasteland, mishras factory and believe it or Not my two MD nevinyrrils discs.
Worst cards were 2 trinisphere.
Karakas also didnt do much.
All in all a nice demonstration of the Eldrazis power.

Barook
04-24-2016, 04:11 PM
Looking at my recent results, I think Spatial Contortion might at least be worth considering as a meta SB choice if Delver is strong in your particular meta. Having Dismember as only spot removal for flipped Delvers isn't that hot in the damage race.

On a slightly different note:
One of my recent opponents was so impressed by the deck that he bought it on MTGO. Today, he told me that he did a 5-0 run in league. Guess the deck still works. :tongue:

DavidHernandez
04-24-2016, 06:40 PM
Hey everyone,

Went 5-0 on a local tournament yesterday.
Played against DnT, infect, Rug Delver, maverick and elves.
MVPs were wasteland, mishras factory and believe it or Not my two MD nevinyrrils discs.
Worst cards were 2 trinisphere.
Karakas also didnt do much.
All in all a nice demonstration of the Eldrazis power.
Two maindeck Disks! I've been considering maindeck All Is Dust. The disks take 5 mana and two turns for use, AiD takes 5 mana on one turn (assuming Eye) and no Amethyst or Thalia.



Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

DavidHernandez
04-24-2016, 06:42 PM
Looking at my recent results, I think Spatial Contortion might at least be worth considering as a meta SB choice if Delver is strong in your particular meta. Having Dismember as only spot removal for flipped Delvers isn't that hot in the damage race.

On a slightly different note:
One of my recent opponents was so impressed by the deck that he bought it on MTGO. Today, he told me that he did a 5-0 run in league. Guess the deck still works. :tongue:
Agreed. I dropped the Dismember in favor of Spatial Contortion and don't see a difference...except I don't lose 4 life!

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

Kami
04-24-2016, 08:26 PM
Yes, that works, but I don't think it has ever come up for me as they always killed either part of the combo before it became relevant.

@f7eleven: Rarely, although I double blinked TKS sometimes in the past with various builds.


How did you pull that off? Mimics/Endless Ones?

I agree it depends on your hands and the decks you play against. E.g. against Shardless BUG, a flooded board is the last thing they want to face early on.

Turn 1 mimic + displacer (via petal) - i was on the play
Turn 2 endless one
Turn 3 endless one or mimic (cant remember which one)
He could not have played sneak attack and actived it fast enough (thanks to blood moon)



Now i'm testing another build:

Lands
4 [ROE] Eldrazi Temple
3 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
2 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [DDF] Mishra's Factory
4 [OGW] Corrupted Crossroads (see below the reasons)

Creatures
4 [OGW] Eldrazi Mimic
4 [OGW] Reality Smasher
4 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
4 [OGW] Matter Reshaper
4 Endless One
3 [OGW] Eldrazi Displacer

Spells
1 [NPH] Dismember
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
2 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [TE] Lotus Petal

Sideboard
2 [ROE] All Is Dust
4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
2 [OGW] World Breaker
1 [MMA] Faerie Macabre (FLEX)
2 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
2 [OGW] Wastes
[B]2 [OGW] Kozilek's Return

Kozilek's return has been a good board sweeper vs delver, elves, shardless, strix, deathrite, D&T (except for batterskull and serra avenger) and all sort of tokens (pyromancer, mentor, thopters etc).
It's castable with corrupted crossroads and you still get acess to world breaker.

Yes... it will kill our mimics, but in most matches that we side in KR the mimics will left the deck anyway. Reshaper is not a problem, it replaces itself if needed.

Silverflame
04-24-2016, 09:34 PM
Kozilek's return has been a good board sweeper vs delver, elves, shardless, strix, deathrite, D&T (except for batterskull and serra avenger) and all sort of tokens (pyromancer, mentor, thopters etc).
It's castable with corrupted crossroads and it benefits from eldrazi temple and eye of ugin.


I believe kozilek's return will not benefit from eldrazi temple and eye because it's not Tribal - Eldrazi. But even so, it's still a good tech.

Kami
04-24-2016, 10:11 PM
I believe kozilek's return will not benefit from eldrazi temple and eye because it's not Tribal - Eldrazi. But even so, it's still a good tech.

Yeah, you're right, i've tested so much cards and just got confused when writing.

Aside from that, it's working wonderfully. Makes UR and elves matchups a lot easier and it's really good against BUG and D&T too.

Other removals that i tryed and don't get enough sucess: pyroclasm, nameless inversion, sword to plowshares (with brushland or tendo), disk, obligator (works in some cases to remove blockers and do extra damage) and a few others. The best of the bunch are KR and deluge as sweepers and dismember/contortion as one target removals. KR is better than pyroclasm because you can use crossroads and still get mana for world breaker. I prefer dismember, because you can use even if you dont get <C>, and has a better range, but both are ok.

Disenchant is a really nice card as a 1-of too (if you have enough W sources).

Obs: again, sorry by my poor english. I'm learning....

bonkotsu
04-25-2016, 09:07 AM
Is there any way to beat Blood Moon effects or Painter effects? We had an IQ last week and I was helpless against Imperial Painter. I have also had some struggles with D&T. I plan on taking the big squids to Columbus and whatever Classics/IQs I can do before then. I definitely need testing.

Has it become common practice to mainboard fast mana like SSG or ESG? I know a lot of people have strayed away from Mox Diamonds but aren't the guides just as rough late game?

I had been testing with Newlamog, against shardless I would just cast him, exile lands, attack exile 20, bounce with karakas, recast, repeat. Was debating on the old Kozilek to net 4 cards against decks like D&T or grindy matches. Just as a 1 of.

ESG
04-25-2016, 04:44 PM
Is there any way to beat Blood Moon effects or Painter effects? We had an IQ last week and I was helpless against Imperial Painter.

Wastes. Keep in mind, though, that this is still an unfavorable matchup.


Has it become common practice to mainboard fast mana like SSG or ESG? I know a lot of people have strayed away from Mox Diamonds but aren't the guides just as rough late game?

You should be the aggressor in all non-combo matchups and aim to win in the early game. There isn't a consensus on the type of fast mana, but those specific choices should be informed by your splash color (if any), your overall land count, and whether you are running Thorn of Amethyst or Trinisphere.

Secretly.A.Bee
04-25-2016, 05:07 PM
How does a singleton Emrakul and a singleton Wastes not just shore up both of these cards?

maraxusofkelds
04-26-2016, 01:18 PM
How does a singleton Emrakul and a singleton Wastes not just shore up both of these cards?


I've been running a single newlamog in place of one of the world breakers. At least world breaker is uncastable if blood moon is out, unlike newlamog. In addition, newlamog is incredible in other slow grindy matchups since by the time you can use eye's fetch ability, you are able to hard cast him anyway.

ZEROorDIE
04-26-2016, 04:43 PM
This deck doesn't really make Emrakul mana.

Made another 3-0 rUN last night at my LGS. still running mono <C>.

Matches were:
D&T- 2-1
G1- mull to 5. We both start playing little guys, he wastes my ancient tomb, i wail a stoneforge but 2 turns later he vials in serra avenger then casts and equips jitte. I play mine the next turn but he wins the jitte race.
G2 I play 2 mimics though eye, follow up w a 4/4 endless one and kill him.
G3 a bit grindier, but similar, I get rid of a councils judgement w TKS and beat him to death with reality smasher

Shardless- 2-1
G1- I play a pair of mimcs and a TKS, he plays three goyfs, I lose
G2- TKS and a huge endless one. I boarded out mimics and some other stuff for 3 revoker, 3 trinisphere.
G3 I play a t1 trinisphere with factory, ssg, ssg and pray he doesn't force. He doesn't, I follow up with 2 mimics and a chalice on 1. Beat him to death with mimics.

Food chain combo- 2-1
G1- 4/4 endless one into TKS into a 6/6 endless one.
G2- I have the board loaded, he has tasigur and gurmag, I miscalculated my combat math and punted the game aaway(I was at 4 from ancient tomb, he was at 19). I had 2 TKS, a smasher, 2 revoker, and a 6/6 endless one.
G3- thorn into mimic, mimic, into TKS, into smasher. gg.

Many many Mulligans, but it all worked out in the end.

Barook
04-26-2016, 07:00 PM
I've been running a single newlamog in place of one of the world breakers. At least world breaker is uncastable if blood moon is out, unlike newlamog. In addition, newlamog is incredible in other slow grindy matchups since by the time you can use eye's fetch ability, you are able to hard cast him anyway.
You can almost never cast Ulamog even with normal mana. How exactly do you plan on getting 10 mana under Blood Moon?

ESG
04-27-2016, 03:55 AM
How does a singleton Emrakul and a singleton Wastes not just shore up both of these cards?

I think people overlooked what I assume you were aiming for: The Emrakul isn't meant to be cast; it prevents you from being decked by Painter, assuming you haven't drawn it. This is solid, but it would be too much of a cost to run preboard. SB, sure, if you plan on facing Painter. A singleton Wastes depends on how good you are at drawing it. I like the matchup more the more Wastes I have in my deck, but unless you have many in your deck, there will still be a majority of games where Painter Moons you and it becomes almost solitaire. Painter's Servant plus a bunch of blasts and Ensnaring Bridge is also quite strong. Painter by itself shuts down the Eldrazi Sol lands (because your Eldrazi aren't colorless anymore).

darkgh0st
04-27-2016, 10:06 AM
I was trying to look for the reason in this forum why Containment Priest was dropped and can't seem to find it here. The latest White Eldrazi in mtgtop8 features her as a 2/2 split. Why was she dropped again? Thanks in advance.

Secretly.A.Bee
04-27-2016, 11:51 AM
I think people overlooked what I assume you were aiming for: The Emrakul isn't meant to be cast; it prevents you from being decked by Painter, assuming you haven't drawn it. This is solid, but it would be too much of a cost to run preboard. SB, sure, if you plan on facing Painter. A singleton Wastes depends on how good you are at drawing it. I like the matchup more the more Wastes I have in my deck, but unless you have many in your deck, there will still be a majority of games where Painter Moons you and it becomes almost solitaire. Painter's Servant plus a bunch of blasts and Ensnaring Bridge is also quite strong. Painter by itself shuts down the Eldrazi Sol lands (because your Eldrazi aren't colorless anymore).
Yes, thank you, that was in fact what I meant. I see your points, and they make good sense. I'm getting close to playing eldrazi, what is the most Wastes tested that still let's the build work?

Eldariel
04-27-2016, 12:23 PM
Yes, thank you, that was in fact what I meant.

Oldlamog and Oldzilek have the same ability; considering their casting costs aren't quite as ridiculous, there's some merit to running either instead in case you end up drawing it. I doubt you're casting Emrakul any time soon but perhaps once in a blue moon, Oldzilek or even Oldlamog may be castable.

Silverflame
04-27-2016, 01:00 PM
instead of the fat eldrazi you could also run Damping Matrix. It is good against painter, MUD, elves, pox, belcher, D&T, somewhat against BUG (Deathrite shaman ability is not a mana ability), goblin, merfolk and playable in some other matches in case you have nothing to side in.

Secretly.A.Bee
04-27-2016, 01:59 PM
Oldlamog and Oldzilek have the same ability; considering their casting costs aren't quite as ridiculous, there's some merit to running either instead in case you end up drawing it. I doubt you're casting Emrakul any time soon but perhaps once in a blue moon, Oldzilek or even Oldlamog may be castable.
Quite right. I suppose my mind just goes to Emmy as it's the only one I've ever played or owned. Looks like original Ulamog is the one I would play.

TLK
04-27-2016, 02:36 PM
I got pretty wrecked piloting this deck at a local event last night.

Round 1 vs Sneak & Show:

Game 1 he mulls to 5 and I have a pretty stacked hand with Mimic + Smashers. I drop a turn 1 Mimic, and he takes his draw and says, "I got pretty lucky," and proceeds to drop a turn 1 Griselbrand off Show & Tell. Apparently he drew the Lotus Petal which enabled him to make this play. Unlucky for me.

Game 2 I keep another good hand with a turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer which gets met with a Force of Will. He follows it up with a turn 2 Blood Moon. Sigh. I'm able to draw the game out landing a Chalice on 1, a Chalice on 3 (for Show & Tell), and a Trinisphere. At this point the only creatures I can cast are Mimics and Revokers (which I sided in for Sneak Attack). We play draw-go for ages, as his only real out is Sneak Attack, and I finally land a Mimic and start slowly chipping away. Unfortunately, he's able to find a Sneak Attack before I find Revoker, and he beats me with Griselbrand + Emrakul off a double Sneak Attack activation.

0-2, 0-1

Round 2 vs 4-color Deathblade:

I lose a quick game 1 to double True-Name + equipment. Game 2 I'm able to land a few big threats and then cast All Is Dust to wipe the board and attack for lethal. Same thing in game 3, but he topdecked a land to be able to hard cast his Batterskull, and I was able to hang around by forcing him to chump my Reality Smashers until he topdecked a Lingering Souls and flew over me with the Batterskull attached.

1-2, 0-2

Round 3 vs ???

My opponent apparently dropped and never told the tournament coordinator.

2-0, 1-2

Round 4 vs Death & Taxes

This legit seems like a nightmare matchup. Wasteland + Ports + Vials to get around our lock pieces make this pretty miserable. I lose to Mirran Crusader equipped with Jitte game 1 (as I'm holding a Dismember...sigh) and triple Stoneforge + neverending equipment game 2.

0-2, 1-3

Yikes. This was my first time piloting this deck, and it seems pretty explosive, but it appears that it falls prey to the same follies as all other stompy decks. Some decks just don't care about your prison pieces, and others just counter them. Blood Moon is miserable, too.

DavidHernandez
04-27-2016, 08:08 PM
Yes, thank you, that was in fact what I meant. I see your points, and they make good sense. I'm getting close to playing eldrazi, what is the most Wastes tested that still let's the build work?

I'm running one main and trying to find a slot in the board for one more. I think two is the right number but slots are tight and it's hard to find something to give up. Fewer than two might never see one in a game where it matters.

I recall someone running Mind Stone x 2 and having success with it. Not sure if that's better than Wastes, and again, not sure what to cut but it might give better options than screwing with the mana base.

Dave

Secretly.A.Bee
04-27-2016, 08:24 PM
That's pretty interesting, I like that idea quite a bit.

metronome2charisma
04-27-2016, 11:10 PM
Had a feature match at legacy tonight against infect. https://www.twitch.tv/redcapscorner/v/63218349 it starts around 39 minutes in. i went 2-2 tonight lost to 12 post and all in red and beat infect and imperial taxes.

xArabOfficerx
04-28-2016, 01:38 PM
Yesterday, I ended up playing a friend of mine who was running a home-brewed U/W Spirits Modern build (I didn't have a modern deck on me). Used Barook's build and I can tell you it feels great, although I can state dismember could hurt with the 4 damage taken.

Barook
04-29-2016, 04:11 AM
Another 4-1 run:

R1: BG Suicide Zombies 2-1
R2: Nic Fit 2-0
R3: Mono C Eldrazi 2-0
R4: BUG Control 2-0
R5: UR Delver 1-2

UR Delver in particular doesn't seem like a good match-up since PoP is a pain in the ass and our removal isn't exactly great here. Not sure what changes to make yet. Maybe some Spatial Contortions in the SB, but cuts are difficult. I could cut one Dismember, but I'd like to have at least two Spatial Contortions. Flipped Delvers in general are pretty problematic.

I might consider cutthing Thorn completely for two Spatial Contortions and replace 1 Dismember for another Warping Wail to at least keep some combo hate. I'll test it in my new league run.

Edit: Next run: 3-2
R1: Mono C Eldrazi 2-1
R2: Grixis Delver 2-0
R3: UR Delver 0-2 (seriously, this match-up sucks and is getting more popular)
R4: Sneak & Show 2-1
R5: Miracles 1-2 (bad hands + mulligans G2 + G3, he had early Mentor both games)

I missed the third Dismember, so I'll go -1 Wail +1 Dismember in the board again.

darkgh0st
04-29-2016, 09:44 AM
I was trying to look for the reason in this forum why Containment Priest was dropped and can't seem to find it here. The latest White Eldrazi in mtgtop8 features her as a 2/2 split. Why was she dropped again? Thanks in advance.

Still looking for the answer to why Containment Priest was removed from the list. Can anybody elaborate on this one? I want to know whether I should pick her up or not.

GP Toronto this weekend. Going in with White Eldrazi in mad side events. Will update here on my findings.

Kami
04-29-2016, 10:25 AM
Another 4-1 run:

R1: BG Suicide Zombies 2-1
R2: Nic Fit 2-0
R3: Mono C Eldrazi 2-0
R4: BUG Control 2-0
R5: UR Delver 1-2

UR Delver in particular doesn't seem like a good match-up since PoP is a pain in the ass and our removal isn't exactly great here. Not sure what changes to make yet. Maybe some Spatial Contortions in the SB, but cuts are difficult. I could cut one Dismember, but I'd like to have at least two Spatial Contortions. Flipped Delvers in general are pretty problematic.

I might consider cutthing Thorn completely for two Spatial Contortions and replace 1 Dismember for another Warping Wail to at least keep some combo hate. I'll test it in my new league run.

Edit: Next run: 3-2
R1: Mono C Eldrazi 2-1
R2: Grixis Delver 2-0
R3: UR Delver 0-2 (seriously, this match-up sucks and is getting more popular)
R4: Sneak & Show 2-1
R5: Miracles 1-2 (bad hands + mulligans G2 + G3, he had early Mentor both games)

I missed the third Dismember, so I'll go -1 Wail +1 Dismember in the board again.

I solved this with kozilek's return and corrupted crossroads. Really, it's a sweeper against ur delver

Barook
04-29-2016, 10:30 AM
Still looking for the answer to why Containment Priest was removed from the list. Can anybody elaborate on this one? I want to know whether I should pick her up or not.

GP Toronto this weekend. Going in with White Eldrazi in mad side events. Will update here on my findings.
Read the thread. It takes too many white non-Eldrazi sources to support properly.


I solved this with kozilek's return and corrupted crossroads. Really, it's a sweeper against ur delver
Not an option for my version since 5 sources for red (two Crossroads, 3 Petals) are just way too few.

Kami
04-29-2016, 11:07 AM
Read the thread. It takes too many white non-Eldrazi sources to support properly.


Not an option for my version since 5 sources for red (two Crossroads, 3 Petals) are just way too few.

True, needs at least 7-8 red sources to work.
Maybe 1 ratched bomb in the side? It kills delver or tokens. Not ideal, but it has also other aplications.

I saw a guy using 2 eldrazi skyspawner. Not great, but could help. And vs moon it's good too if you manage to cast it before the moon enters in play. But i think it's just too cute, not a real application

xArabOfficerx
04-29-2016, 12:33 PM
Another 4-1 run:

R1: BG Suicide Zombies 2-1
R2: Nic Fit 2-0
R3: Mono C Eldrazi 2-0
R4: BUG Control 2-0
R5: UR Delver 1-2

UR Delver in particular doesn't seem like a good match-up since PoP is a pain in the ass and our removal isn't exactly great here. Not sure what changes to make yet. Maybe some Spatial Contortions in the SB, but cuts are difficult. I could cut one Dismember, but I'd like to have at least two Spatial Contortions. Flipped Delvers in general are pretty problematic.

I might consider cutthing Thorn completely for two Spatial Contortions and replace 1 Dismember for another Warping Wail to at least keep some combo hate. I'll test it in my new league run.

Edit: Next run: 3-2
R1: Mono C Eldrazi 2-1
R2: Grixis Delver 2-0
R3: UR Delver 0-2 (seriously, this match-up sucks and is getting more popular)
R4: Sneak & Show 2-1
R5: Miracles 1-2 (bad hands + mulligans G2 + G3, he had early Mentor both games)

I missed the third Dismember, so I'll go -1 Wail +1 Dismember in the board again.

How did the Spatial Contortions feel? The Rachet Bomb at 1 might be worth considering as a 5-0 MC build yesterday sided it. The problem like you said would be what to cut?

Barook
04-29-2016, 05:15 PM
How did the Spatial Contortions feel? The Rachet Bomb at 1 might be worth considering as a 5-0 MC build yesterday sided it. The problem like you said would be what to cut?
Can't say much about Contortions as it hasn't come up yet.

League run: 4-1 - yet another good run ruined by a Delver deck. Seriously, fuck Delvers. :mad:

R1: Esper Blade 2-1
R2: Shardless BUG 2-0
R3: Miracles 2-1
R4: Grixis Delver 0-2
R5: Miracles 2-0

Looking at my track record against various Delver variants with my particular version, I'm 3-6 so far, with UR Delver being the worst at 0-3. Something certainly needs to be done, although I'm unsure what's the right cause of action yet.

Edit: I don't know why exactly my opponent refused to waste me. Tripple KotR isn't that hot when Displacer is on the field. (http://i.imgur.com/9X52IWT.jpg) :laugh:

Next league run: 3-2

R1: Zombardment 2-1
R2: Maverick 2-0
R3: Shardless BUG 2-1
R4: Grixis TITI Control 1-2
R5: Shardless BUG 1-2

R4 & R5 were lost due to pure lucksacking on part of my opponents and partly due to manascrew on my side. But since the league pairing system is fucked anyway, I was paired against my R5 opponent again to crush him good and proper in R1 of the next league. :laugh:

6-1 in matches vs Shardless with my build so far. The aggressive approach really pays off big time against them.

Edit #2: One of the great things about this deck is that you can spam an entire league run in less than 2 hours. :laugh:

Latest league run: 4-1 (this time with Ratchet Bomb in the flexslots; needs more testing)

R1: Shardless BUG 2-0 (revenge is sweet!)
R2: UR Delver 2-1 (slight green splash for Become Immense & Destructive Revelry)
R3: Miracles 1-2 (Nahiri might proof to be a massive problem, although the manascrew G3 didn't help either)
R4: Manaless Dredge 2-1 (they don't like Leyline of the Void - who would have thought? :wink: )
R5: Infect 2-0 (Displacer MVP)

metronome2charisma
04-30-2016, 12:11 PM
Can't say much about Contortions as it hasn't come up yet.

League run: 4-1 - yet another good run ruined by a Delver deck. Seriously, fuck Delvers. :mad:

R1: Esper Blade 2-1
R2: Shardless BUG 2-0
R3: Miracles 2-1
R4: Grixis Delver 0-2
R5: Miracles 2-0

Looking at my track record against various Delver variants with my particular version, I'm 3-6 so far, with UR Delver being the worst at 0-3. Something certainly needs to be done, although I'm unsure what's the right cause of action yet.

Edit: I don't know why exactly my opponent refused to waste me. Tripple KotR isn't that hot when Displacer is on the field. (http://i.imgur.com/9X52IWT.jpg) :laugh:



Next league run: 3-2

R1: Zombardment 2-1
R2: Maverick 2-0
R3: Shardless BUG 2-1
R4: Grixis TITI Control 1-2
R5: Shardless BUG 1-2

R4 & R5 were lost due to pure lucksacking on part of my opponents and partly due to manascrew on my side. But since the league pairing system is fucked anyway, I was paired against my R5 opponent again to crush him good and proper in R1 of the next league. :laugh:

6-1 in matches vs Shardless with my build so far. The aggressive approach really pays off big time against them.

Edit #2: One of the great things about this deck is that you can spam an entire league run in less than 2 hours. :laugh:

Latest league run: 4-1 (this time with Ratchet Bomb in the flexslots; needs more testing)

R1: Shardless BUG 2-0 (revenge is sweet!)
R2: UR Delver 2-1 (slight green splash for Become Immense & Destructive Revelry)
R3: Miracles 1-2 (Nahiri might proof to be a massive problem, although the manascrew G3 didn't help either)
R4: Manaless Dredge 2-1 (they don't like Leyline of the Void - who would have thought? :wink: )
R5: Infect 2-0 (Displacer MVP)

What are you bording in and out for shardless? i'm playing 74 of your 75. i'm 2-1 in sanctioned matches with this version but it still feels tough. What did you cut in the board for the 1 ratchet bomb? I have been playing with the idea of running 1t in place of the 3rd all is dust...thoughts?

Barook
04-30-2016, 02:51 PM
What are you bording in and out for shardless? i'm playing 74 of your 75. i'm 2-1 in sanctioned matches with this version but it still feels tough. What did you cut in the board for the 1 ratchet bomb? I have been playing with the idea of running 1t in place of the 3rd all is dust...thoughts?
Here you go (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30500-DTB-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=944846&viewfull=1#post944846)

Displacer goes due to lack of good targets and requiring white mana. Jitte is meh and so is CotV. It also turns out that you deprive them of good AD targets this way (only Mimic & Reshaper left).

I cut both Thorns to gain my flexslots as I brought them in rarely anyway. Do NOT go below 3x All is Dust.

Silverflame
04-30-2016, 02:59 PM
I'm using Barook's list on Xmage, I got 5-0 then 7-1 and now I'm 10-5 :/
Lost to mirror (Maraxus), storm, BUG, and twice to 12 post. So far I'm thinking 3 dismembers is too much and will probably cut one more thing for the helm combo.
Xmage have a weird field compared to paper magic, in over 20 matches (some where not completed, so I don't count them on W/L) I haven't faced one D&T, Burn, Esper or elves. These matches are very common in Brazil's meta, so I gotta train them as much as possible.

metronome2charisma
04-30-2016, 07:23 PM
Here you go (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30500-DTB-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=944846&viewfull=1#post944846)

Displacer goes due to lack of good targets and requiring white mana. Jitte is meh and so is CotV. It also turns out that you deprive them of good AD targets this way (only Mimic & Reshaper left).

I cut both Thorns to gain my flexslots as I brought them in rarely anyway. Do NOT go below 3x All is Dust.

Thanks man, wasn't sure if it changed.

Nocley
04-30-2016, 10:44 PM
Went 4-0-2 into T8, losing in QF at a 1.5k just now. 47 players, beat Deathblade x2 , Death and Taxes, and BUG Loam, lost to Miracles. Was a couple cards off from Barook's list, I was very very underwhelmed by the SB in general - All is Dust and World Breaker always felt too late to be relevant (given that I played 4 wasteland decks in swiss), and only just okay against miracles. Main Deck felt great though, except for Lotus Petal (Which I never had to pop on curve, it was always just in a replacement for a missed land), but that's a small sample where I just didn't have hands where that was relevant (always wanting to instead keep it in hand to bluff because I had other colored sources and better on curve plays).

As for the SB, I'd want to try more prison pieces, but then again I didn't play the list when they ran more of them anyways, so its possible I'm just over valuing them in my head.

Barook
04-30-2016, 11:46 PM
Went 4-0-2 into T8, losing in QF at a 1.5k just now. 47 players, beat Deathblade x2 , Death and Taxes, and BUG Loam, lost to Miracles. Was a couple cards off from Barook's list, I was very very underwhelmed by the SB in general - All is Dust and World Breaker always felt too late to be relevant (given that I played 4 wasteland decks in swiss), and only just okay against miracles. Main Deck felt great though, except for Lotus Petal (Which I never had to pop on curve, it was always just in a replacement for a missed land), but that's a small sample where I just didn't have hands where that was relevant (always wanting to instead keep it in hand to bluff because I had other colored sources and better on curve plays).

As for the SB, I'd want to try more prison pieces, but then again I didn't play the list when they ran more of them anyways, so its possible I'm just over valuing them in my head.
You can't expect All is Dust & World Breaker to work as intended when you run 4x Wasteland. :really:

RhoxWarMonk
05-01-2016, 12:03 AM
You can't expect All is Dust & World Breaker to work as intended when you run 4x Wasteland. :really:

I think it meant he played decks with wasteland in it, not that he's playing wasteland :)

I played the side event at gp Toronto today going 5-1, finishing 5th - I believe the event had 64 people. All is dust was the MVP (followed by thought knot seer and displacer) but nothing won me games like all is dust did.

I actually only played with 2 but went out and bought a 3rd right after the tournament. Wouldn't play with less than 3 going forward.

Side note but tournament was great, well run and really can't say enough good things about my opponents. All of them were great and fun to play against.

Nocley
05-01-2016, 12:10 AM
You can't expect All is Dust & World Breaker to work as intended when you run 4x Wasteland. :really:

Not sure if sarcasm or just was unclear in my state from this past week, but I wasn't running Wastelands, just the four decks I played in swiss all had Wastelands in them, which made me shy away from overloading on the 7 drops.

Barook
05-01-2016, 12:17 AM
Not sure if sarcasm or just was unclear in my state from this past week, but I wasn't running Wastelands, just the four decks I played in swiss all had Wastelands in them, which made me shy away from overloading on the 7 drops.
Nevermind, I was just tired.


All is dust was the MVP (followed by thought knot seer and displacer) but nothing won me games like all is dust did.

I actually only played with 2 but went out and bought a 3rd right after the tournament. Wouldn't play with less than 3 going forward.
That matches pretty much with my experiences, although Smasher deserves a honorable mention as well for stealing alot of games.

RhoxWarMonk
05-01-2016, 12:28 AM
Nevermind, I was just tired.


That matches pretty much with my experiences, although Smasher deserves a honorable mention as well for stealing alot of games.

Absolutely smasher is great, stole me a few games as well. Endless one was really effective too, especially with mimics on board. Can really pump them and swing for a lot of damage.

The only change I'd make to the main will be cutting a Dismember. I found it very underwhelming and it's all kinds of awful with ancient tomb.... really wasn't impressed but I feel it's still a necessary evil as a 1 of. Unsure what I'll replace it with but likely a Warping Wail.

For now the only change I'll make to the sb is to go to 3 all is dust. I played the helm/Leyline combo but no graveyard decks or prison decks at all, so never boarded them in.

DavidHernandez
05-01-2016, 03:29 AM
Absolutely smasher is great, stole me a few games as well. Endless one was really effective too, especially with mimics on board. Can really pump them and swing for a lot of damage.

The only change I'd make to the main will be cutting a Dismember. I found it very underwhelming and it's all kinds of awful with ancient tomb.... really wasn't impressed but I feel it's still a necessary evil as a 1 of. Unsure what I'll replace it with but likely a Warping Wail.

For now the only change I'll make to the sb is to go to 3 all is dust. I played the helm/Leyline combo but no graveyard decks or prison decks at all, so never boarded them in.
I'm still not sure why Spatial Contortion isn't seeing more play. I'm I it's only champion?

RhoxWarMonk
05-01-2016, 10:40 AM
I'm still not sure why Spatial Contortion isn't seeing more play. I'm I it's only champion?

You make a good point, it deserves more testing. I suspect it can even be used offensively from time to time as well, on thought-knots/Smashers/Endless Ones. I will give them a try in the Dismember slot and see if I like it.

Here's a mini report for my games at the GP.

First, the list, courtesy of Barook, though I did make a few changes.

3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer

2 Dismember
2 Warping Wail

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Ancient Tomb
1 Urborg
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas
3 Mishra's Factory

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Helm of Obedience
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Thorns of Amethyst
1 World Breaker
1 Trinisphere
2 All is Dust

Here was my matchup breakdown. As I mentioned above, 64 person tournament with no top 8 and I ended up going 5-1.
Enchantress (2-0)
Food Chain (2-1)
Elves (2-1)
Burn (1-2) *Price of Progress is AWFUL, especially in multiples...
Aluren (2-1)
High Tide (2-0)

I had no idea how to sideboard against half the decks, so I mostly didn't. Most of my games outside Burn and High Tide I brought in All is Dust, which single handedly won me the Aluren match and did serious work against some other decks as well. The Aluren matchup it literally saved the day as a top deck, with TKS on the board and my opponent at 7 heath. He had board control, I drew all is dust, cast it, swing. Draw go, match. I never would have won that match without it.

Displacer is absolutely flithy... Only once had trouble casting him, despite being slightly greedy with only 9 white sources. Chalice obviously was amazing as always.

I didn't play Reanimator, though I saw it in the room and therefore, didn't bring in my Leylines or Helms at all. I want to keep them there for the time being and see how they end up doing but I'll definitely be going up to 3x All is Dust for more testing. Struggling with what to cut but likely the Trinisphere, even though it really helped me in the Elves matchup. Maybe a Ratchet Bomb, didn't board it in all day but I also didn't play against any Mentor Miracles or Pyromancer decks, which is really the reason I'm running them.

Lastly, the Urborg was great, I really like it as a one of to be able to avoid damage from Ancient Tombs. I surprisingly drew it rather frequently and only a few times I wished it was another land, generally a white source or sol land of some sort but we're fairly maxed out on the latter right now. Overall, pretty happy with the deck but need a replacement for Dismember IMO. Will be testing Spatial Contortion next but certainly open to any suggestions.

wasabizod
05-01-2016, 04:22 PM
You make a good point, it deserves more testing. I suspect it can even be used offensively from time to time as well, on thought-knots/Smashers/Endless Ones. I will give them a try in the Dismember slot and see if I like it.

Lastly, the Urborg was great, I really like it as a one of to be able to avoid damage from Ancient Tombs. I surprisingly drew it rather frequently and only a few times I wished it was another land, generally a white source or sol land of some sort but we're fairly maxed out on the latter right now. Overall, pretty happy with the deck but need a replacement for Dismember IMO. Will be testing Spatial Contortion next but certainly open to any suggestions.

Congrats on the run.

Both of these comments above seem in line with what I've been thinking as I've been testing online (a lot of 4-1 and 3-2 runs with Barook's list +/- some sideboard cards). I've cut the Thorns in the SB for Ratchet Bomb (heyoooo YPyromancer tokens) but I've noticed the majority of my uses for Dismember would be met by Spatial Contortion. The one exception seems to be Batterskull, and in many of those cases, I could deal with the three life swing to kill it off, since I'm keeping my own 4 life. This is, as you mentioned, compounded by the ancient tomb problem. I'm intrigued to try Urborg for the same reason. I may go 2 Contortion/2 Wail in the main for a bit and see how that goes, moving Dismember to the sideboard (2/2/2 split). Would love to know where you land with things.

Barook
05-01-2016, 04:53 PM
Another league run: 3-2 - started out good, just to be ruined by fucking Delver yet again. :mad:

R1: Reanimator 2-0
R2: Zombardment 2-0
R3: Merfolk 2-0
R4: BUGr Delver with Bolts 1-2
R5: Grixis Delver 1-2

My track record against Delver continues to be rather poor to the point where something needs to be done. Current run was with Ratchet Bomb - didn't really impress me. And as a token sweeper it sucks because it hits your Chalice & Endless One.

Both BUG and Grixis pitch stuff to force (flashback Therapies in case of Grixis) and both exile cards to DRS - alot. So Corrupted Crossroads with Wasteland Stranglers are an option in the 75. One nice thing about Strangler is that it can process opposing AVs against Shardless. But cuts are hard. I've learned to enjoy the value/ramp from Reshaper and Stranglers are so much worse in the mirror. And Stranglers just as a SB option seems pretty meh as one could just run Spatial Contortion instead without further straining the mana or jumping through the exile hoops.

Another variant could be Eldrazi Skyspawner - also 3 power (2 which are evasive), potential ramp & abuse with Displacer, produces sac fodder for Liliana.

But neither option sounds 100% appealing to me. I do think the problem can be tackled (see: current build vs Shardless), but it requires alot of theorycrafting and the last thing I want to do is break things that I just fixed, namely the Shardless match-up.

I think the deck needs more removal overall if it wants to stand a chance against Delver, thus I'm leaning towards the Strangler plan. I'm still undecided about the actual numbers in the 75 as it feels like this would require a shift in the entire deck, including reworking the mana base. A single Urborg could become an option again - or 3 Crossroads. But the last thing I want to do is cut down the number of Factories as two copies are simply not enough vs Control, namely Miracles & Shardless. Going up to 25 lands could work, although I'm not a fan of that. I don't like that Wasteland Stranglers are probably vanilla 3/2s that require black (unlike Reshaper) in certain matches, thus I'm not keen about running them in the MD.

To sum up my considerations so far:

MD changes:
-2 Brushlands, +2 Corrupted Crossroads
-1 another card (maybe City?), +1 Crossroads (could be Urborg, but see reason below why Crossroads)
-1 Matter Reshaper, +4th Displacer to the MD, hence third Crossroad to ensure the white mana count (a single Matter Reshaper won't make or break the Shardless match-up)

-1 Karakas (sucks when you play against legends, but the current number of decks running really relevant legends is about ~8% while Delvers are at 15%)
-1 Displacer (moved to MD)
+2 Wasteland Strangler

Dismember is debatable, but I like them vs Miracles (due to Mentor), the mirror, Gurmag, random fatties, Reanimator for their utility 5/5s etc. 1x World Breaker could be cut, but I like to actually draw them as tutoring for them is rather rare.

But maybe I'm just overthinking things and we should just run 4x Spatial Contortion in the 75.

I'm looking forward to input here.

@wasabizod: Batterskull can be handled with Displacer.

Cire
05-01-2016, 05:19 PM
Barook if you're going the Corrupted Crossroads route - why go strangler, when you can go red for a sweeper like Kozilek's Return?

Barook
05-01-2016, 05:33 PM
Barook if you're going the Corrupted Crossroads route - why go strangler, when you can go red for a sweeper like Kozilek's Return?
Cavern of Souls doesn't tap for Kozilek's Return. Thus you don't have enough colored sources to reliably run it, not even close. It would be a nice solution, I guess, but not worth fucking up the manabase.

f7eleven
05-01-2016, 06:15 PM
it's almost impossible to add another color AND keep Mishra's Factories. If you do add another color and a 25th land, your Lotus Petals should be Mox Diamonds. Can confirm Skyspawner owns Delver decks, especially w/ Displacers, AND Wasteland Strangler is very good vs Shardless for the reasons you mentioned. I think Jitte's can move to the sideboard to make room for more 3-drops in the main.

Barook
05-01-2016, 06:52 PM
it's almost impossible to add another color AND keep Mishra's Factories. If you do add another color and a 25th land, your Lotus Petals should be Mox Diamonds. Can confirm Skyspawner owns Delver decks, especially w/ Displacers, AND Wasteland Strangler is very good vs Shardless for the reasons you mentioned. I think Jitte's can move to the sideboard to make room for more 3-drops in the main.
Mox Diamonds are bad as they can be dead draws and actually cost you mana in the long run more often than I like.

My main concern is trading percentages with other decks. How much game do we sacrifice vs Shardless by running Strangler MD in place of Reshaper? What about the mirror? Other matches where both are 3/2s for 3, except Strangler is harder to cast?

As for the list, I would probably start off with something like this:

4 Ancient Tomb
3 Corrupted Crossroads
4 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mishra's Factory

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 All Is Dust
2 World Breaker
1 Warping Wail
5 flex slots (could be a mixture of Wasteland Strangler, Spatial Contortion, 3rd Dismember, 3rd Karakas or something completely different)

metronome2charisma
05-01-2016, 11:08 PM
Mox Diamonds are bad as they can be dead draws and actually cost you mana in the long run more often than I like.

My main concern is trading percentages with other decks. How much game do we sacrifice vs Shardless by running Strangler MD in place of Reshaper? What about the mirror? Other matches where both are 3/2s for 3, except Strangler is harder to cast?

As for the list, I would probably start off with something like this:

4 Ancient Tomb
3 Corrupted Crossroads
4 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mishra's Factory

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 All Is Dust
2 World Breaker
1 Warping Wail
5 flex slots (could be a mixture of Wasteland Strangler, Spatial Contortion, 3rd Dismember, 3rd Karakas or something completely different)

In my opinion instead of making all those changes just jam 4 spatial contortions first. I think it does a lot for the u/r match up and is also pretty good against D/T.

xArabOfficerx
05-02-2016, 02:00 AM
In my opinion instead of making all those changes just jam 4 spatial contortions first. I think it does a lot for the u/r match up and is also pretty good against D/T.

I agree here, already tinkering with Strangler is a bit much. It might be worth while trying the Urborg at 1 line, maybe cutting Traitors down to 1? The list looks fine originally, and I do like the Brushlands. Might be worth while trying the Contortions out instead of Dismember, and playing the 2 Dismember out in the SB. Displacer at 4 looks okay, but I personally am liking the 3 line of it with the 1 in the sideboard. In honesty, I think trying out the likes of Rachet Bomb/4 Contortion (2 MB and 2 SB) is your best bet. As noted above, really the only major thing you are killing with Dismember is Batterskull, and you already deal with that via Displacer?

Silverflame
05-02-2016, 04:18 PM
I agree here, already tinkering with Strangler is a bit much. It might be worth while trying the Urborg at 1 line, maybe cutting Traitors down to 1? The list looks fine originally, and I do like the Brushlands. Might be worth while trying the Contortions out instead of Dismember, and playing the 2 Dismember out in the SB. Displacer at 4 looks okay, but I personally am liking the 3 line of it with the 1 in the sideboard. In honesty, I think trying out the likes of Rachet Bomb/4 Contortion (2 MB and 2 SB) is your best bet. As noted above, really the only major thing you are killing with Dismember is Batterskull, and you already deal with that via Displacer?

Ratchet bombs are a bit awkward in this deck since you destroy your chalices and endless one at 0. Dismember can be cast under blood moon, it also gets goyf and Magus of the Moon, although it doesn't come up that often. If we get more colorless source, the transition to contortion would be better.
Maybe 1 strangler would be better than 2, so you can use reshaper and once in a life time live the dream of flipping it from a chumped goyf/batterskull.

Have anyone tested extensively the Painter matchup? It seens a nightmare.

xArabOfficerx
05-02-2016, 05:38 PM
Ratchet bombs are a bit awkward in this deck since you destroy your chalices and endless one at 0. Dismember can be cast under blood moon, it also gets goyf and Magus of the Moon, although it doesn't come up that often. If we get more colorless source, the transition to contortion would be better.
Maybe 1 strangler would be better than 2, so you can use reshaper and once in a life time live the dream of flipping it from a chumped goyf/batterskull.

Have anyone tested extensively the Painter matchup? It seens a nightmare.

Well if we are utilizing Brushlands, they provide the colorless source. Our deck runs on colorless options, so I do not see a problem with that aspect. Too me it seems Contortion provides a more upside than Dismember does, which is why I think it should be played over Dismember MB. This does not mean cut Dismember entirely, but run it in the SB for those matches against Goyf and Magus. If we take let say Barook's build, we find the colorless sources to be:

2x Brushlands
3x Mishra's Factory
4x Ancient Tombs
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x City of Traitors

There are options here, so I don't see why we are not running Contortion. Additionally, there is the case where we pop it on our Reality Smashers and pop some extra damage.

Barook
05-02-2016, 10:24 PM
I'll just move the Displacer to the MD and test 4x Contortion in the SB and see how it goes later this week.

Whether or not Contortion should be played over Dismember in the MD is up to debate and I want to wait for my playtesting results first before making any judgements. Dismember can be cast for :1: (which can be important, due to tempo or being under a Blood Moon effect) and kills more creatures - something that should taken into consideration as well.

Cire
05-02-2016, 10:44 PM
In my opinion instead of making all those changes just jam 4 spatial contortions first. I think it does a lot for the u/r match up and is also pretty good against D/T.

What's the list? I'm trying the following:

Removal Heavy Eldrazi

-20 Creatures
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer

-11 Removal
4 Spatial Contortion
2 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Dismember

-4 Prison
4 Chalice of the Void

-25 Lands and Mana Accel
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Karakas
1 Urborg
3 Lotus Petal

xArabOfficerx
05-03-2016, 01:19 AM
I'll just move the Displacer to the MD and test 4x Contortion in the SB and see how it goes later this week.

Whether or not Contortion should be played over Dismember in the MD is up to debate and I want to wait for my playtesting results first before making any judgements. Dismember can be cast for :1: (which can be important, due to tempo or being under a Blood Moon effect) and kills more creatures - something that should taken into consideration as well.

Are you dropping Reshaper to 3 then with the same list but Contortion in the Sideboard?

Barook
05-03-2016, 06:56 AM
Are you dropping Reshaper to 3 then with the same list but Contortion in the Sideboard?

That's the plan. I'll then try to find some Delver variants to see how Contortion works against them before taking any further steps, if necessary. I'll also have an eye on the white count for Displacer mana with 4 copies MD.

f7eleven
05-03-2016, 03:54 PM
Mox Diamonds are bad as they can be dead draws and actually cost you mana in the long run more often than I like.

One Mox can cast two Displacers (which you've upped to 4 MD). Mox Diamond lets you play your City of Traitors earlier than you would otherwise, negating/delaying City's drawback. Mox Diamond saves you life on your Dismembers. Mox Diamond doesn't put an artifact in the graveyard vs goyf decks.

The deck is also running several redundant lands; the second Karakas, second Eye of Ugin, second City of Traitors, second Cavern of Souls, second Urborg...

I'll concede that playing w/ Mox Diamonds over Petals does increase the difficulty of sequencing your land drops.

choice19
05-03-2016, 09:20 PM
took the G/W list out for a spin tonight

went 1 -2

Match 1 WIN vs miracles
Game 1 - just ran over him with thought knots
Game 2 - he resolved a blood moon - I still managed to cast endless ones but lost to mentor
Game 3 - warping wail saved the day- counter terminus - his jaw dropped

Match 2 LOSS vs miracles
Game 1 - ran him over he had few answers
Game 2 - got him to 3 but couldnt close him out -
Game 3 - same as game 2 - i decided to warping wail his terminus which he followed up with angels and 2 swords to plowshares

Match 3 LOSS vs Infect
Game 1 - I land a thought- knot take blighted angent - he lands a inkmoth with some pump spells
Game 2 - I resolved a chalice on 1 - he had an amazing draw - Inkmoth + 3 invigorate - i die on 2 turn and shrug

ESG
05-03-2016, 09:41 PM
Went 4-0-2 into T8, losing in QF at a 1.5k just now. 47 players, beat Deathblade x2 , Death and Taxes, and BUG Loam, lost to Miracles. Was a couple cards off from Barook's list, I was very very underwhelmed by the SB in general - All is Dust and World Breaker always felt too late to be relevant (given that I played 4 wasteland decks in swiss), and only just okay against miracles. Main Deck felt great though, except for Lotus Petal (Which I never had to pop on curve, it was always just in a replacement for a missed land), but that's a small sample where I just didn't have hands where that was relevant (always wanting to instead keep it in hand to bluff because I had other colored sources and better on curve plays).

As for the SB, I'd want to try more prison pieces, but then again I didn't play the list when they ran more of them anyways, so its possible I'm just over valuing them in my head.

Man, I would've loved those matchups. Out of the sea of Miracles, I somehow found the only Lands player in my bracket, followed by the only Imperial Painter in my bracket.

maraxusofkelds
05-04-2016, 03:37 AM
I'm using Barook's list on Xmage, I got 5-0 then 7-1 and now I'm 10-5 :/
Lost to mirror (Maraxus), storm, BUG, and twice to 12 post. So far I'm thinking 3 dismembers is too much and will probably cut one more thing for the helm combo.
Xmage have a weird field compared to paper magic, in over 20 matches (some where not completed, so I don't count them on W/L) I haven't faced one D&T, Burn, Esper or elves. These matches are very common in Brazil's meta, so I gotta train them as much as possible.

There are two guys who run D&T on xmage I run across, but they both play early euro late Pacific time. I think there is one more burn player and another elves player.

I run a list similar to Barook except I have 3 caves of koilos, one toxic deluge, one spatial contortion in the side. The green is only really used for world breaker and I haven't really missed it, while the black has helped at times reduce the damage from dismembers and toxic deluge is pretty ace vs grixis delvers, mentors, and shardless bug at times. It also opens up for the wasteland strangler potential in SB, though I havent personally gotten to draw them when i tested them. The corrupted crossroad instead of the pain lands is an interesting choice.

the_goat
05-05-2016, 09:08 AM
hello...i recently joined the Eldrazi side...after many years being a merfolks aficionado...

this is the list I am testing, is pretty standard as i took it from a tournament report, i just made minor changes:

LANDS - 25
4 wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors
2 Urborg
1 Karakas
1 Crystal Vein

CREATURES - 20

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Endless One
4 Reality Smasher
3 Matter Reshaper
1 Endbringer

OTHER SPELLS - 15
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Ametist
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Dismember

Sideboard

4 Leyline of the Void
2 All is Dust
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
1 Winter Orb

Testing done so far and general comments:
Nic fit 7 games, some after sideboard 4W - 3L, mainly won post sideboard with Leyline shining in this matchup - no shaman, no veteran, no Titania, no cabal therapy flashback. Keep warping wail in hand and mana open as their only way to remove leyline is zenith for the naturalize elf (i forgot the name).

Miracles 7 games, only pre-sideboard, 4W - 3L, obviously resolving chalice or thorn turn1 turns the matchup in our favor, if they are on the play and they start with top our chalice is still very good but less effective as they have a way to dig for a solution/win condition.

Jund 6 games, some after sideboard 5W - 1L, very good matchup, warping wail removing shaman helps a lot the mana denial plan, combined with wasteland, i think i was lucky winning 5 games out of 6 - post side i liked the extra dismember to take care of goyfs, winter orb to keep aggression on their mana, leyline makes tarmogoyf reasonably small, maximum 4/5 as we do not run sorceries, they could still discard a redundant leyline we draw during the game but is very rare.

Shardless BUG - what a nightmare matchup! - 7 games played - 2W - 5L - strix is their best card - 1/1 deathtouch cantrips and get rids of our monsters - I have 5 replies maindeck - 6 if we consider endbringer - jace, shaman, vision, hymn are all card advantage for them, sue we have chalices and thorns, but they have decays and pulse...

Grixis Green Thing - 5 games - 2W - 3L - a brew from a very good local player - it's a control/tempo deck with all best cards in BURG colors - force of will - strix - shaman - bolt - therapy - probe - goyf - cantrips - kolaghan's command - snapcaster and the most important card of the deck - thing in the ice. this card is insanely good, a good blocker - for matter reshaper - mimic - gets easily flipped even if we have chalice for 1 on the board and bounces all our creatures and opponent creatures - strixes and snapcaster are very good when bounced. if they resolve thing in the ice turn 2 is very hard to win (unless we have one of our 4 solutions - 3 wails and 1 dismember)

Does anyone have a good advice on how to improve the shardless matchup?
Thank you in advance
the_goat

Barook
05-05-2016, 10:11 AM
Does anyone have a good advice on how to improve the shardless matchup?
Overrun them full force. After SB, with All is Dust back-up. That's the best plan and it works fairly well. Which means more creatures AND Mishra's Factory.

Another league run, another 4-1:

R1: Miracles 2-0
R2: Shardless 0-2
R3: Elves 2-1
R4: Zombardment 2-0
R5: Shardless 2-1

R2 draws vs Shardless were abyssal with mulligans in both games. But what I've learned from the post-board game after drawing two dead Leylines while Contortion could have won me the game is that I Contortion is probably the better card since it can still disable annoying creatures while not being a dead draw. Bonus points for the suprise pump.

xArabOfficerx
05-05-2016, 12:52 PM
Overrun them full force. After SB, with All is Dust back-up. That's the best plan and it works fairly well. Which means more creatures AND Mishra's Factory.

Another league run, another 4-1:

R1: Miracles 2-0
R2: Shardless 0-2
R3: Elves 2-1
R4: Zombardment 2-0
R5: Shardless 2-1

R2 draws vs Shardless were abyssal with mulligans in both games. But what I've learned from the post-board game after drawing two dead Leylines while Contortion could have won me the game is that I Contortion is probably the better card since it can still disable annoying creatures while not being a dead draw. Bonus points for the suprise pump.

I'm going to try and switch our Dismember with Contortion and playtest it this weekend with a buddy of mine, will definitely let you all know how it goes.

xArabOfficerx
05-05-2016, 12:58 PM
hello...i recently joined the Eldrazi side...after many years being a merfolks aficionado...

this is the list I am testing, is pretty standard as i took it from a tournament report, i just made minor changes:

LANDS - 25
4 wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors
2 Urborg
1 Karakas
1 Crystal Vein

CREATURES - 20

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Endless One
4 Reality Smasher
3 Matter Reshaper
1 Endbringer

OTHER SPELLS - 15
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Ametist
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Dismember

Sideboard

4 Leyline of the Void
2 All is Dust
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
1 Winter Orb

Testing done so far and general comments:
Nic fit 7 games, some after sideboard 4W - 3L, mainly won post sideboard with Leyline shining in this matchup - no shaman, no veteran, no Titania, no cabal therapy flashback. Keep warping wail in hand and mana open as their only way to remove leyline is zenith for the naturalize elf (i forgot the name).

Miracles 7 games, only pre-sideboard, 4W - 3L, obviously resolving chalice or thorn turn1 turns the matchup in our favor, if they are on the play and they start with top our chalice is still very good but less effective as they have a way to dig for a solution/win condition.

Jund 6 games, some after sideboard 5W - 1L, very good matchup, warping wail removing shaman helps a lot the mana denial plan, combined with wasteland, i think i was lucky winning 5 games out of 6 - post side i liked the extra dismember to take care of goyfs, winter orb to keep aggression on their mana, leyline makes tarmogoyf reasonably small, maximum 4/5 as we do not run sorceries, they could still discard a redundant leyline we draw during the game but is very rare.

Shardless BUG - what a nightmare matchup! - 7 games played - 2W - 5L - strix is their best card - 1/1 deathtouch cantrips and get rids of our monsters - I have 5 replies maindeck - 6 if we consider endbringer - jace, shaman, vision, hymn are all card advantage for them, sue we have chalices and thorns, but they have decays and pulse...

Grixis Green Thing - 5 games - 2W - 3L - a brew from a very good local player - it's a control/tempo deck with all best cards in BURG colors - force of will - strix - shaman - bolt - therapy - probe - goyf - cantrips - kolaghan's command - snapcaster and the most important card of the deck - thing in the ice. this card is insanely good, a good blocker - for matter reshaper - mimic - gets easily flipped even if we have chalice for 1 on the board and bounces all our creatures and opponent creatures - strixes and snapcaster are very good when bounced. if they resolve thing in the ice turn 2 is very hard to win (unless we have one of our 4 solutions - 3 wails and 1 dismember)

Does anyone have a good advice on how to improve the shardless matchup?
Thank you in advance
the_goat

So, this is very similar to the original list I was running before I made my the switch to White splash. Displacer really sures up a lost of match-ups which can cause problems for eldrazi. Also too me Wastelands are not necessary at all, you will be wanting Mishra's Factory.

ChrisDissent
05-05-2016, 06:06 PM
Overrun them full force. After SB, with All is Dust back-up. That's the best plan and it works fairly well. Which means more creatures AND Mishra's Factory.

Another league run, another 4-1:

R1: Miracles 2-0
R2: Shardless 0-2
R3: Elves 2-1
R4: Zombardment 2-0
R5: Shardless 2-1

R2 draws vs Shardless were abyssal with mulligans in both games. But what I've learned from the post-board game after drawing two dead Leylines while Contortion could have won me the game is that I Contortion is probably the better card since it can still disable annoying creatures while not being a dead draw. Bonus points for the suprise pump.

Hi ! New to the forum and to Legacy as well. Really interested in buying into Legacy with this deck.

First, congratulations Barook, another amazing run !

May I ask you what was your list this time ? Have you made some changes since the "delver issue" you've encountered earlier ?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

Barook
05-05-2016, 07:05 PM
Hi ! New to the forum and to Legacy as well. Really interested in buying into Legacy with this deck.

First, congratulations Barook, another amazing run !

May I ask you what was your list this time ? Have you made some changes since the "delver issue" you've encountered earlier ?

Thanks in advance for your answer.
Same list as always, expect with 4x Displacer and 3x Matter Reshaper MD.

Current SB is:
4x Leyline of the Void
2x World Breaker
3x All is Dust
1x Dismember
4x Spatial Contortion
1x Warping Wail

As for Spatial Contortion, it looks promising in general, despite not facing Delver in that league run. I'll keep testing it for now.

On slightly different note:

I fucking love Displacer! (http://imgur.com/a/hhn5Q)

Secretly.A.Bee
05-05-2016, 07:13 PM
I can't seem to find where you got a second white source to displace the second goyf. Any chance you could enlighten me?

Barook
05-05-2016, 07:15 PM
I can't seem to find where you got a second white source to displace the second goyf. Any chance you could enlighten me?
Displacer requires colorless, not white.

Secretly.A.Bee
05-05-2016, 10:17 PM
Enlightened, thanks.

metronome2charisma
05-05-2016, 11:23 PM
3-1 last night
Lost to rug delver RD1, 1-2 RD 2 miracles 2-0, RD 3 scapewish/nic fit 2-0, RD 3 scapewish/nic fit 2-0. 41-22-3 (i.d.) in sanctiined events so far. Coulda won the delver match if i was better at magic , and in my last round i managed to dodge the THREE blood moon stompy/taxes decks in my bracket. ....Lucky.

Barook
05-06-2016, 04:38 AM
Next league run: 4-1

R1: Naya Zoo 2-0
R2: Mono C Eldrazi 2-0
R3: Miracles 2-1
R4: Naya Zoo 2-1 (same guy; this pairing system is stupid)
R5: Burn 1-2 (he had the exact topdeck to save his ass twice; this is extremely frustrating :rolleyes: )

Could have been 5-0 league run if it wasn't for the dumb luck in the last round. Spatial Contortion does work, though.

sporenfrosch1411
05-06-2016, 05:20 AM
Congrats on that nice finish. May i ask if you (still) have problems with Shardless and what your latest list looks like?

Barook
05-06-2016, 05:28 AM
Congrats on that nice finish. May i ask if you (still) have problems with Shardless and what your latest list looks like?
The current list is 7-2 vs Shardless, so I don't think it's a problem anymore.

New run: 2-3 :rolleyes:

R1: Burn 2-1 (revenge is sweet)
R2: Chaos Elves 1-2
R3: Miracles 0-2 (blindflipped Terminus under Blood Moon while I had Smasher with Chalice @1 in play while he was on 5 :rolleyes: )
R4: Mono C Eldrazi 2-1
R5: UR (Grixis?) Control with MD Blood Moon (G1 I won despite T3 Blood Moon thanks to Smasher & Endless One. I got too greedy G2 and didn't account for Snapcaster, throwing the match this way. G3 was good ol' manascrew)

Edit: Next run: 4-1 - I can't 5-0 anymore even if my life would depend on it. :rolleyes:

R1: Maverick 2-1
R2: Grixis Delver 1-2
R3: Manaless Dredge 2-0
R4: Wg Eldrazi Mirror 2-1 (my build)
R5: BUG Delver 2-1

Can't really comment on Contortion as far as Grixis Delver is concerned since I never drew it (or any other removal spell other than a single Warping Wail, for the matter, despite 10 removal spells in the deck :rolleyes: ). It makes a pretty good impression in other match-ups, though.

But I don't get the feeling yet that it would be saviour we need vs Delver. One of the problems is that we can't race them between Delver & Deathrite Shaman. One thing that is circulating in my head now is the use of Basilisk Collar. Yes, I'm aware that it clashes with CotV @1. But it's the only thing cheap enough to get the job done, unlike "I love to be stuck in your hand for the entire game like the PoS I am without SFM!"-Batterskull. Loxodon Warhammer doesn't look very appealing, either.

Silverflame
05-07-2016, 12:05 PM
But I don't get the feeling yet that it would be saviour we need vs Delver. One of the problems is that we can't race them between Delver & Deathrite Shaman. One thing that is circulating in my head now is the use of Basilisk Collar. Yes, I'm aware that it clashes with CotV @1. But it's the only thing cheap enough to get the job done, unlike "I love to be stuck in your hand for the entire game like the PoS I am without SFM!"-Batterskull. Loxodon Warhammer doesn't look very appealing, either.

Maybe Sun Droplet? It can't be tricked and works in multiples.

Barook
05-07-2016, 12:37 PM
Maybe Sun Droplet? It can't be tricked and works in multiples.
Way too slow.

Next leage run: 3-2

R1: Mono C Eldrazi 2-0
R2: Eldrazi/MUD Ramp Hybrid 0-2
R3: BUG Control 1-2
R4: High Tide 2-0
R5: Mono C Eldrazi 2-0

This completes my first 100 matches with this build. Same statistics:

- 72-28, aka 72% win rate
- Miracles is 10-6, or 62,5% - got a bit worse once they started packing more Blood Moons and Mentors, but still favored
- Shardless match-up seems decent enough now: 7-2, or 77,8%
- Delver match-ups (BUG, Grixis and UR) are terrible, with a 5-9 combined record, or 35,7% - that one still needs alot of work
- What suprised me the most: My best match-up so far was the mirror - 8x Mono C, 2x my Wg build, all won. And I'm the guy who hates any kind of mirror matches. :eyebrow:

Mr Miagi
05-07-2016, 12:54 PM
So what exactly is the problem with Delver lists? Resolved delver on play? Their soft (daze)and hard counters (Force)? Wastelands? I don't really understand why should Eldrazis loose so hoprribly against delver decks. Afterall we are the chalice deck.. "the bane" of delver decks. I've played my share of Dragon stompy so to some degree I understand how annoying is the delver, daze hand from opponents, but then again, eldrazis have very efficient beaters. Can't we just race them? What about spatial contorion and dismember to take care of the early delver, isn't that good enough?

Please share some words what's so difficult about the delver match-up. Thanks.

Barook
05-07-2016, 01:06 PM
So what exactly is the problem with Delver lists? Resolved delver on play? Their soft (daze)and hard counters (Force)? Wastelands? I don't really understand why should Eldrazis loose so hoprribly against delver decks. Afterall we are the chalice deck.. "the bane" of delver decks. I've played my share of Dragon stompy so to some degree I understand how annoying is the delver, daze hand from opponents, but then again, eldrazis have very efficient beaters. Can't we just race them? What about spatial contorion and dismember to take care of the early delver, isn't that good enough?

Please share some words what's so difficult about the delver match-up. Thanks.
Resolved Delvers which fly over your creatures, Wastelands, self-damage caused by Tomb, DRS activations (Grixis & BUG) or PoP (UR), other problematic creatures (YP, Gurmag, Goyf).

Still haven't found a recipe that works against them well enough with the current build.

darkgh0st
05-07-2016, 03:12 PM
I took Barook's 60 and switched 1 Matter Reshaper to 1 Phyrexian Metamorph, and Brushlands to Corrupted Crossroads, with this 15 at my LGS FNM:

1 Karakas
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
3 Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void
2 All is Dust
2 World Breaker

I don't remember how I sideboarded exactly, but I took out whatever didn't matter for the MU and SB accordingly.

Round 1 - Reanimator
Game 1: On draw. He gets a Griselbrand early and I go down in life fast through back and forths of Reality Smasher and Jitte. He seals the deal when he Exhumes an Elesh Norn. (0-1)
Game 2: Chalice on 1 and 2, then a beater, and we're off to game 3. (1-1)
Game 3: Leyline comes in then enough pressure. He doesn't find his Echoing Truth and I take game 3. (2-1)
1-0

Props: Chalice of the Void, Leyline of the Void
Flops: Warping Wail needing to keep mana up for counter vs adding beats to the table early game

Round 2 - 12-Post
Game 1: On draw. I get early beats in with Chalice of the Void at 1, he keeps on gaining life through Post lands, through a Primeval Titan as well. I attack with a bunch of creatures, he blocks with the Titan and is surprised by Dismember. He would win next turn as he can cast Ulamog that I saw through Thought-Knot (that took a Show and Tell early on), but casts Ugin and realize his mistake right after. (3-1)
Game 2: I beat him down early with two Mimics, but he delays with Platinum Emperion. I get World Breaker through Eye tutor, but he has backup Moment's Peace. This was fine since a forced Moment's Peace means he couldn't tutor with his Eye. After two Fogs, he digs for Glacial Chasm, I tutor another World Breaker and win after. (4-1)
2-0

Props: Opponent play mistake, Thought-Knot Seer, World Breaker
Flops: Not having Wastelands to control this game

Round 3 - Grixis Control
Game 1: On draw, he mulls to 6 and Probe-Therapy both my Chalices away. I'm whittled down in cards still even after a couple turns, but he only has Pyromancer as his threat without tokens. It catches a Dismember and a Thought-Knot stays long enough to win the game. (5-1)
Game 2: He Probe-Therapy me again and take Thought-Knot. I get a 4/4 Endless One turn 2, he gets a Blood Moon in turn 3, getting my Reality Smasher and Warping Wail stuck in hand. I play Jitte and Petal, equip and attack. He doesn't have an answer in his turn and had to dig using Painful Truths. He doesn't get anything and I win with an 8/8 Endless One from Jitte's double pump. 20 damage came from Endless One with Jitte (12), Fetches (3). Painful Truths (3), and Probe (2). (6-1)
3-0

I ask him where his Wastelands were since I didn't see any (would have screwed me up both games). He only had 1 in the deck. I guess it helps that people are waiting for EMA for Wastelands.

Props: Winning even after Mooned, Thought-Knot Seer, Endless One`s versatiliy, Umezawa`s Jitte, opponent not having Wastelands
Flops: I had a Phyrexian Metamorph that was lackluster game 1.

Round 4 - Lands
Game 1: On draw. I would have Chalice on 1 turn 1, but decided to sandbag it for Chalice at 2 next turn. He has Waste-lock from turn 1, through Mox, Exploration and Gamble. I probably could have broken the lock by Wailing a Life from the Loam, then slapping the Chalice at 2. But would still be a hard game, so I decided to scoop and not fully revealing what I was playing. (6-2)
Game 2: On play. Leyline of the Void in the opening hand was a snap keep. He swears against that card. He starts playing land and I keep on beating him up. He was forced to tutor Maze of Ith or die. On the turn he can combo off he passes. I play the Karakas I was holding for the combo. He was forced to Rotate into a Wasteland and not be able to combo off end of my turn. He can combo off again on his turn as he has enough mana, but even with Marit Lage as a blocker, I had lethal. (7-2)
Game 3: On draw, I mull to six after seeing an uneventful hand. I see Leyline of the Void again and keep. He gets surprised again. I win this game fast through Thought-Knot and Reality Smasher beats as he doesn't have the combo (scary if he did as I didn't have karakas or Displacer) and has two Abrupt Decay stuck in his hand. (8-2)
4-0

Props: Leyline of the Void, World Breaker for stopping the combo game 2, Karakas
Flops: Play mistake game 1

Barook
05-07-2016, 04:13 PM
Mono C Eldrazi just took down Bazaar of Moxen Annecy:

Decklist (http://www.bazaar-of-moxen.com/en/urlrw,40.html?event=18&evt=18)

Edit:
I playtested a bit with SwampRitualNegator (who played Grixis Delver) on MTGO to figure something out regarding the particular weakness of the current build vs Delver. No real conclusions could be drawn yet, but in his opinion, I should rather keep the Mimics in and try to simply overrun them asap (similiar to Shardless BUG - and at least in that match-up, that plan works like a charm). Bringing back some copies of Thorn might be a good idea as well. Dismember is probably bad due to the high life cost.

So, basically
-2 Dismember
-2 Warping Wail

+2 Thorn of Amethyst
+2 something

Wasteland Stranger might fit the slot of "something" pretty well since it's another creature to further the overrun plan while it can also act as potential removal. I'm starting at 2 copies in the SB where they can do no harm. Supporting two copies with 2x Corrupted Crossroads (in the Brushland slot), 4x Cavern & 3x Lotus looks reasonable enough from a bit of goldfish testing.

xArabOfficerx
05-07-2016, 08:51 PM
Mono C Eldrazi just took down Bazaar of Moxen Annecy:

Decklist (http://www.bazaar-of-moxen.com/en/urlrw,40.html?event=18&evt=18)

Edit:
I playtested a bit with SwampRitualNegator (who played Grixis Delver) on MTGO to figure something out regarding the particular weakness of the current build vs Delver. No real conclusions could be drawn yet, but in his opinion, I should rather keep the Mimics in and try to simply overrun them asap (similiar to Shardless BUG - and at least in that match-up, that plan works like a charm). Bringing back some copies of Thorn might be a good idea as well. Dismember is probably bad due to the high life cost.

So, basically
-2 Dismember
-2 Warping Wail

+2 Thorn of Amethyst
+2 something

Wasteland Stranger might fit the slot of "something" pretty well since it's another creature to further the overrun plan while it can also act as potential removal. I'm starting at 2 copies in the SB where they can do no harm. Supporting two copies with 2x Corrupted Crossroads (in the Brushland slot), 4x Cavern & 3x Lotus looks reasonable enough from a bit of goldfish testing.

Is that a SB option with Delver or looking to switch out Dismember and the Wails all together? I personally believe we need the removal, so I could see bringing in Thorn from SB against Delver, I'm just not sold on Strangler.

Barook
05-07-2016, 09:04 PM
Is that a SB option with Delver or looking to switch out Dismember and the Wails all together? I personally believe we need the removal, so I could see bringing in Thorn from SB against Delver, I'm just not sold on Strangler.
No, that is just a potential SB plan for Delver, depending on how it works out.

xArabOfficerx
05-07-2016, 10:22 PM
No, that is just a potential SB plan for Delver, depending on how it works out.

Alright, so what's the new complete list look like as of now? Brushlands being replaced my corrupted crossroads? How are you liking the 4th Displacer instead of the 4th Reshaper?

Barook
05-08-2016, 06:52 AM
Alright, so what's the new complete list look like as of now? Brushlands being replaced my corrupted crossroads? How are you liking the 4th Displacer instead of the 4th Reshaper?
Yeah. I don't feel like copypasting the list for every little change I make.

New league run: 4-1

R1: Infect 2-0
R2: BUG Delver 2-0
R3: UR Delver 2-0
R4: Wg Eldrazi Mirror (my build) 1-2 (had an abyssal draw G1 - mull to 5 with double city :rolleyes: and G3 he topdecked Dismember of a displaced TKS, plus topdecking a SoL land for a second Displacer activation into lethal before the turn I had lethal. Not fun being of the receiving end when my build goes into bullshit topdeck mode :tongue: )
R5: Aggro Loam 2-1

Tried the aggro plan with only minimal boarding (Thorns in both times, vs BUG also Wail out, Strangler in). It worked this time, but it's far too early to make any conclusions.

metronome2charisma
05-08-2016, 08:39 AM
I played the legacy showdown yesterday at Grandprix NY . Went 4-3...In general i was happy with my play for the most part,Ive questioned a couple plays but, i'll talk about that later.

RD1 rug delver- He wins the roll and plays a delver and passes .I play chalice, he forces,i pass he flips delver plays another one . I play a tks , he dazes and brainstorms with the floating blue and i scoop. GM2 I chalice and tks. GM 3. ALMOST EXACTLY GAME 1. (0-1)

RD 2 lands- He wins the roll and takes the play. He has natural turn 3 dark depths , i have natural turn 3 end bringer with no mana to activate. GM2 he has loam/waste lock starting on turn 2.....i should mulligan to the leyline ( 0-2)

RD3 bug delver . I win the roll play a chalice on 1. he plays a polluted delta pass. i play a 3/3 endless one and a matter reshaper he scoops....i HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HES PLAYING ...So , i board in two thorns and 4 leyline thinking he could be on reanimator or storm. GM 2 He plays a delver ,i play mimic, 2/2 endless one. he plays another delver i play tks then a smasher and just roll him. Had the leyline in my opener ..not the best not the worst. (1-2)

RD 4 - 4 color pod . dont remeber much about the match other than baleful strix drawing him a bunch of cards and birthing pod being to slow. and it was pretty easy. (2-2)

RD 5 dredge . HE mulls to 5 I chalice on one , then tks take his breakthrough .he gets a grave troll dredging , i take it with a phyrexian metamorphosed copy of tks and he never recovers. i mulligan to the leyline .my opener is leyline chalice,chalice,lotus petal caver, cavern. i keep, play my entire hand turn one and a couple turn later a displacer and a reshaper got me there.(3-2)

RD6 TES. It just so happens my opponent is a local and we're familiar with each other and know what the other is playing ..I'm 4-0 against him in sanctioned matches ...This is no different. (4-2)

RD7 reanimator . he wins the roll and carefull study/reanimates a griselbrand with a petal. .GM 2 leyline, chalice ,displacer all play a roll At one point he reanimated my tks and took my endbringer but i flickered it with displacer. he wasn't happy.. Gm 3 i didn't mulligan to the leyline because i thought double mimc+ smasher would be fast enough. i draw a third mimic play all three and pass.he entombs an elesh norn and exhumes it next turn i play a karakas and bounce it . i play a tsk he forces , next turn i play another tks, he forces AGAIN .i play a smasher he takes 5 ,entombs grave titan, reanimates grave titan, i die a few turns later drawing brushland, ancient tomb, basic waste with my opponent at 2 life....I shoulda mulliganed to the leyline AGAIN. (4-3)

Moral of the story is mulligan to the leyline.

xArabOfficerx
05-08-2016, 11:36 AM
Yeah. I don't feel like copypasting the list for every little change I make.

New league run: 4-1

R1: Infect 2-0
R2: BUG Delver 2-0
R3: UR Delver 2-0
R4: Wg Eldrazi Mirror (my build) 1-2 (had an abyssal draw G1 - mull to 5 with double city :rolleyes: and G3 he topdecked Dismember of a displaced TKS, plus topdecking a SoL land for a second Displacer activation into lethal before the turn I had lethal. Not fun being of the receiving end when my build goes into bullshit topdeck mode :tongue: )
R5: Aggro Loam 2-1

Tried the aggro plan with only minimal boarding (Thorns in both times, vs BUG also Wail out, Strangler in). It worked this time, but it's far too early to make any conclusions.

Positive result right there for the Delver plan. How'd the Strangler feel? I take this run as a 5-0.

Barook
05-08-2016, 02:53 PM
Positive result right there for the Delver plan. How'd the Strangler feel? I take this run as a 5-0.
One game (where I didn't even draw it) is far away from the data required to evaluate it.

For those testing my build, I'd like to hear how you perform vs Delver with the aggro plan, aka minimal sideboarding.

metronome2charisma
05-08-2016, 05:49 PM
One game (where I didn't even draw it) is far away from the data required to evaluate it.

For those testing my build, I'd like to hear how you perform vs Delver with the aggro plan, aka minimal sideboarding.

I'm on a list very close to yours and thats actually my thoughts on it too,is to out agree them. I would want some amount of spatial contortion and warping wail.

xArabOfficerx
05-08-2016, 10:15 PM
Might be worth noting, several of the previous 5-0 MTGO runs with Eldrazi have been the Colorless builds with Endbringer and SSG. Does it appear that Colorless is making a case for being a strong build to compete with the W/G Splash?

@Barook - Did you place in Urborg for a City of Traitors or did you keep the same land adjustment except the 2 Corrupted Crossroads for the 2 Brushlands?

Barook
05-08-2016, 11:27 PM
Might be worth noting, several of the previous 5-0 MTGO runs with Eldrazi have been the Colorless builds with Endbringer and SSG. Does it appear that Colorless is making a case for being a strong build to compete with the W/G Splash?

@Barook - Did you place in Urborg for a City of Traitors or did you keep the same land adjustment except the 2 Corrupted Crossroads for the 2 Brushlands?
Just Crossroads for Brushlands. I'm not a fan of Urborg due to helping out the opponent.

talpa
05-09-2016, 05:06 AM
(On the matter of problematic Delver matchup) Another variant could be Eldrazi Skyspawner - also 3 power (2 which are evasive), potential ramp & abuse with Displacer, produces sac fodder for Liliana


I'm still not sure why Spatial Contortion isn't seeing more play. I'm I it's only champion?

I have played 3 Spatial Contortion in SB since the beginning of my test with Eldrazi, in every version (Colorless, White, Blue-White), exactly with the purpose of solving these problems: delver matchups, too much life loss from both Ancient Tombs and Dismembers (and also for Death and Taxes matchup). I never questioned them, and I loved them every time they showed up. Also, I dislike Jitte, except for the mirror, since I found it too slow and too prone to tricks from the opponent (if they cast their removal in response to the equip you have lost 4 mana which is a huge tempo swing).

I also would like to draw your attention on the following UW build.
It took down a side event (45 players) in the italian 4-days big event Ovinogeddon (spring edition) (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=20159&iddeck=153675). At first look, I really disliked the list, but the day after I played against the pilot and I was able to exchange a few impressions with him and I started to change my ideas. Then, yesterday, I took a similar list to a small tournament (22 players, swiss only) and I went 4-1, losing only to the winner (with Grixis Delver) after two good draws of him (one of the 2 Ancient Grudges, then he topdecked the green mana source for the flashback, then he drew the third bolt).

Maybe it sounds too "modern-like", but the Skyspawner really shines, it gives you mana ramp and a flying blocker. The combo with displacer is nuts, I had it running once and obviously it took the game.

My list, for reference:

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Warping Wail
1 Endbringer
4 Tundra
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors

SIDEBOARD:
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
3 Spatial Distortion
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Warping Wail
1 Endbringer
2 Ratchet Bomb

The Endbringer maindeck was really just a filler to get to 60 cards... I didn't like adding one more land, nor the fourth copy of the Sphere effect (I know many of us are completely moving them to the SB, and I too often sideboard them out -I even sideboard out chalices sometimes- but I don't feel secure cutting them completely from the maindeck). Probably, it could be a dismember, but the original list was bold enough to run completely without removals, so I guessed 3 wails MD could be enough. I am open to your suggestions on this matter.

Probably anyway I should replace the Endbringers with Drowner of Hopes, as in the original list.

The tokens also allow you to block a Batterskull without having them gain life, or to block a Jitte-equipped creature without having them get counters.

darkgh0st
05-09-2016, 03:02 PM
I'm gna give the Eldrazi Skyspawner a try in Legacy (over Matter Reshaper). I did love them in the Modern builds.

sporenfrosch1411
05-09-2016, 04:34 PM
Is Skyspawner really that much of an Upgrade? The list has cut LotusPetal/Spirit Guides if im not mistaken to play Skyspawners and ALSO has cut down on City of Traitors. Looks like it lost a lot of explosiveness.....
Also, is Drowner really better than Endbringer?

talpa
05-10-2016, 01:39 AM
Please visit the link in my previous post and take a look at the list from which I took inspiration... I think you're replying to my very personal choices (he played 3 cities, it's me that plays only two; four is a sure mistake. Also he played 26 lands where I am going with 25, and I even played 24 without accelerators... You expose yourself a little bit more to mana screw but I flood too much too often).

That said, I never liked petals nor cities, these latter most of all: what's their purpose? they don't increase your chances of t1 lock piece unless you then auto-wastelands yourself, thus at t2 going back with mana as if you didn't "cheat" with sol lands. For this purpose, Simians are simply better, since they can also surprise an opponent out of a Daze (I was able to do that). Also you can run petals only without Thorns... maybe it's a necessity for the white splash, but...

I don't play online and I don't know your meta, but going without Thorns seems very bold to me. In a mid to big tournament you always get paired against 1-2 combos at least and I don't want to give away that power g1.

Lastly, of course you become a little less aggro. Maybe it's a personal style (I'm a control player, so I play controllish even when piloting combo or aggro :P) but I think it's exactly the purpose in the matchups you want to improve. In every matchup you have to understand your role, and against Grixis Delver you are NOT the aggro. Against death and taxes the matchup is grindy (and the token far more valuable than the petal). Also I don't think speed is the (only) way against Cascade.

I'm afraid you're underestimating the power of board advantage and, moreover, FLYING: bye bye delver and flickerwisp is a huge upgrade.
Please give the build a try before judging: I did the same mistake.
Regards

sporenfrosch1411
05-10-2016, 04:45 AM
Skyspawner might in many situations be superiour to Matter Reshaper, but i did never like Reshaper in the first Place.
I have run some testgames with Skyspawner and im not overly impressed either. He fits nice onto curve and can sometimes trade with a delver while leaving a token behind, but it did not feel like Skyspawner would actually solve any problems for the deck. Might need more testing tho.
And even though i agree that T1 City of Traitors feels really wrong, T1 City into Chalice@1 into T2 Temple into Thought-Knot is still GAME vs so many decks that i think its a calculated and worthwhile risk to play 3 City of Traitors.

talpa
05-10-2016, 08:43 AM
(Forgive me in advance for the very short response).
Simply a matter of game style, I suppose. Apparently, you are ok with a game plan of "drop 2 of my most strong cards and hope they can steal the game"; for me, too many things can go wrong this way.

EDIT: Am I the only one which finds an inner contradiction in these?

(Skyspawner) can trade with a delver while leaving a token behind, but it did not feel like (this) would actually solve any problems

MGB
05-10-2016, 09:42 AM
I think the Skyspawner might just be too low of a powerlevel for Legacy. I mean, Matter Reshaper basically cycles, and Displacer has a powerful blink effect. Skyspawner is just a 2/1 flying body plus a 1/1 token body.

xArabOfficerx
05-10-2016, 11:39 AM
I think the Skyspawner might just be too low of a powerlevel for Legacy. I mean, Matter Reshaper basically cycles, and Displacer has a powerful blink effect. Skyspawner is just a 2/1 flying body plus a 1/1 token body.

I think this is the reason why. I understand you've said you are a control player and it is how your play style is; however, I don't believe that is how the deck is suppose to be played. You have ramped lands that drop into massive creatures as soon as possible with lock effects played in ASAP.

darkgh0st
05-10-2016, 12:51 PM
Eldrazi Mimics does get the edge from Matter Reshaper, but not Skyspawner. What I like about it is that it goes around Blood Moon through being in play first, or through Lotus Petal. It is something I don't want to dismiss right away, so testing is the best way to determine it.

talpa
05-10-2016, 01:09 PM
I think the Skyspawner might just be too low of a powerlevel for Legacy. I mean, Matter Reshaper basically cycles, and Displacer has a powerful blink effect. Skyspawner is just a 2/1 flying body plus a 1/1 token body.
...that goes in combo with displacer.
a flying body... in other words, something that blocks delver, one of the problematic creatures for this deck.
a token... that makes you mana ramp. That allows you to block batterskulls without having them gain life and, more important, a jitte without having them gain counters on it!

Reshaper too seems too low a power level for legacy. And cycles only if your opponent is not playing white (swords to plowshares, terminus).
As I said, when I first saw the list I thought all the things you're saying now as objections. Then I tried them ;)


I don't believe that is how the deck is suppose to be played. You have ramped lands that drop into massive creatures as soon as possible
Too poor and too "ignorant" (forgive me) gameplan.
I, on the other hand, think that this is NOT how it is supposed to work. For a starter, as you admitted, at first you have to drop the lock piece: so you already are NOT on the full aggro plan, but you want to go prison before beating. Then, if you are on a colorless list, I agree more with you; but if you run displacer, you are already on the path of "more controllish" (and maybe you are considering going combo with Containment Priest... or Skyspawner :D

Let me be more clear: of course I would not run Skyspawner in a list without Displacers... but once you have the potential of going combo, this adds up with the other pros of this creature and finally makes it worth.

Secretly.A.Bee
05-11-2016, 02:14 AM
No, it's Stompy, as the thread name specifically states. Historically, stompy's gameplan (dragon, fairy, angel, mono-green plug) has been "disrupt and destroy." Its more comparable to midrange than control. It's also not prison, which wants to drop multiple pieces of permanent-based disruption and then setup and kill (often slowly) in the lategame, the obvious reference here is stax.

Delver needs dealt with immediately, just in general. Does Skyspawner + Displacer come online fast enough often enough for it to be more than you gain one token and kill their delver? Is it bad if that's all it is? I don't know, I have been slowly working on this and while it's still not built, I'm trying to learn from watching and reading and playing against it.

Quasim0ff
05-11-2016, 02:27 AM
No, it's Stompy, as the thread name specifically states. Historically, stompy's gameplan (dragon, fairy, angel, mono-green plug) has been "disrupt and destroy." Its more comparable to midrange than control. It's also not prison, which wants to drop multiple pieces of permanent-based disruption and then setup and kill (often slowly) in the lategame, the obvious reference here is stax.

Delver needs dealt with immediately, just in general. Does Skyspawner + Displacer come online fast enough often enough for it to be more than you gain one token and kill their delver? Is it bad if that's all it is? I don't know, I have been slowly working on this and while it's still not built, I'm trying to learn from watching and reading and playing against it.

I might be ignorant, but if you have Displacer online, isn't Delver pretty non frightening? Like, a tapped 1/1 that requires to reveal a new instant/sorcery isn't super scary..

Secretly.A.Bee
05-11-2016, 02:32 AM
I agree, which is why I only mentioned Displacer in the context of his comment and only with the combo. I primarily was talking about Skyspawner. I'm unsure if it's the answer because of how lackluster it seems in other matchups compared to Matter Reshaper.

Edit: Also, it doesn't actually kill Delver, and more than likely eats a removal spell within a couple turns. But idk if it does, or if they just stall out on the flying beats and use removal on bigger threats and try to goyf/YP you to death. I guess it depends on if you have a Chalice on board?

talpa
05-11-2016, 04:26 AM
I agree with all you said about stompy strategy... I was trying to explain the same thing but maybe couldn't explain well (can we say "stompy = first move as if you were prison, second move as if you were aggro"? :D) Personally anyway, I think that having a late-game plan is good ;) even if you hope to close the match long before the late-game.
(just for the sake of a philosophic discussion... by definition midrange includes both an aggro AND A CONTROL component ;)).

With displacer + skyspawner you have 8 pieces that can (COULD, potentially, not for sure of course) deal with delver instead of 4.
Even if they finally get rid of them, the time you have bought hopefully should be enough.

Anyway, we were discussing the choice of skyspawner specifically, so I mentioned ALL the "plus" on her side (since of course I agree with all the downsides that were pointed out), which includes the combo, and also the single token, with all of its upsides ("block" jitte, bypass edict effects, etc).

I think the "combo" is more useful against death and taxes, and maybe shardless, than against delver.
And finally, I think I can summarize my thought with:

you gain one token and kill their delver? Is it bad if that's all it is?
I think that if that happens, it is good.

Secretly.A.Bee
05-11-2016, 12:18 PM
I agree with all you said about stompy strategy... I was trying to explain the same thing but maybe couldn't explain well (can we say "stompy = first move as if you were prison, second move as if you were aggro"? :D) Personally anyway, I think that having a late-game plan is good ;) even if you hope to close the match long before the late-game.
(just for the sake of a philosophic discussion... by definition midrange includes both an aggro AND A DISRUPTION component ;)).

Ftfy.

talpa
05-11-2016, 01:09 PM
Thank you... tough you cold let something go, given that english is not my first language, so of course I have some troubles with slang and acronyms ;)

Adan
05-11-2016, 06:31 PM
Eldrazi Skyspawner is too weak for Legacy. If I'd play a "colored" version of Eldrazi, it certainly would be GW for Displacers and Worldbreaker (and there is a little kid inside me wanting to abuse the hell out of Karakas + Ulamog). This kind of build also is legit in a meta that tends to spawn a lot of 20/20 tokens.

While I do not think the blue cards (Drowner of Hope and Skyspawner) are any good in Legacy, I actually lost to basically the Modern UW build in Milano, because Skyspawner and Drowner are ridiculously good at stalling Batterskull (I was on DnT) and Displacer blanks it entirely and doubles as a pseudo-Mother of Runes.
The only sad thing is that there are no useful CiP triggers to abuse with Displacer other than TKS in a GW build.

Scott
05-11-2016, 10:20 PM
A 5-0 MTGO deck (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/414452#online) from today had 2 Grim Monoliths and 2 Crystal Veins.

talpa
05-12-2016, 01:10 AM
So Adan you're saying that the UW build is too weak for Legacy but you lost to the very same list and man that I pointed out to this forum, because it seems better equipped vs Death and Taxes (which you were playing). Yes, this makes sense.
And I even started writing saying "When I first looked at this list, it seemed awful, but when you try it, it has his (very good) upsides". Well... I'll stop advocating. Goodbye.

metronome2charisma
05-12-2016, 06:41 AM
3-1 last night. Played against imperial taxes (2-0), 12 post (2-0) ,shardless (0-2) and burn (2-0).

Noloam_
05-12-2016, 10:28 AM
5-0 again yesterday. 3-2 and 4-1 today. i encounterd riehu in a match. his displacers and drowners racked my world ^^

i lost a unlosable game against miracles, where i accidentally tapt my tomb for lethal..

how do you guys like 4 eyes? i like the blow outs so far.

this is my current list:


http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/414918#online

Riehu
05-12-2016, 04:11 PM
5-0 again yesterday. 3-2 and 4-1 today. i encounterd riehu in a match. his displacers and drowners racked my world ^^

i lost a unlosable game against miracles, where i accidentally tapt my tomb for lethal..

how do you guys like 4 eyes? i like the blow outs so far.

this is my current list:


http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/414918#online

It was nice meeting you! As I was telling to you, I just finished at my job like a month ago and now I have been driving around Europe with my wife so been away from The Source and the games for quite some time. Need to get back on the horse before GP Prague and keep testing different builds. Now mostly W version with 2 Drowners of Hope.

How many are coming to GP Prague or going to GP Columbus?

Barook
05-12-2016, 04:37 PM
I wish I could go to GP Prague, but a good friend of mine has his 30th birthday party on the GP Friday and I don't want to miss that. And I don't have the deck in paper yet. :tongue:

I plan on playing the Legacy Challenge this Saturday, though. Everybody knowing now that I play Eldrazi instead of being the dark horse certainly is a disadvantage. Oh well.

I'll do some further testing the next two days, but I guess I'll stick to Contortion instead of Strangler in the board due being more flexible. I'll test Strangler more once I find the time.

Noloam_
05-13-2016, 01:39 AM
i always wanted to test contortion in the side. but i cant side room for it. i like my anti reanimate/storm package too much. i dont like losing these matches.



i went 5-0 today. i had to play against grixis delver in the finals. I mulled this hand on the play. grixis wins most of the time by using therpy or wasteland i.m.o. whould you guys keep it?


http://nl.tinypic.com/r/2itn71e/9

(somehow the imageupload doesnt work)

darkgh0st
05-13-2016, 10:36 AM
I goldfished some games having Matter Reshaper replaced with Eldrazi Skyspawner. It puts you back to the problem of colored mana sources, but now you have to support Displacer and Skyspawner, making Lotus Petal insufficient. You also end up having more variance in the deck, whether you increase the colored eldrazi mana count or not, having you draw the wrong half of the deck can swing the game against your favor. Overall, Matter Reshaper still fits the spot better, unless you have 14 consistent color eldrazi mana sources. (4 Cavern, 4 Crossroads, 3 painlands, 3 Mox)

Nocley
05-13-2016, 04:56 PM
i always wanted to test contortion in the side. but i cant side room for it. i like my anti reanimate/storm package too much. i dont like losing these matches.



i went 5-0 today. i had to play against grixis delver in the finals. I mulled this hand on the play. grixis wins most of the time by using therpy or wasteland i.m.o. whould you guys keep it?


http://nl.tinypic.com/r/2itn71e/9

(somehow the imageupload doesnt work)

I think I keep that on the play. We're a bit threat light, but Factory, Removal, and a T2 TKS should stick at least one of them. The hands that lose to are what, at least 4 exact cards (Delver + 2 Counters/Therapy + Wasteland)?

Noloam_
05-13-2016, 07:15 PM
I think I keep that on the play. We're a bit threat light, but Factory, Removal, and a T2 TKS should stick at least one of them. The hands that lose to are what, at least 4 exact cards (Delver + 2 Counters/Therapy + Wasteland)?

1 therapy or a daze on the turn 2 thoughtknot whould be bad. so you have to cast a turn 3 thoughtknot. which is not impressive in my opinion

RhoxWarMonk
05-14-2016, 02:11 AM
5-0 again yesterday. 3-2 and 4-1 today. i encounterd riehu in a match. his displacers and drowners racked my world ^^

i lost a unlosable game against miracles, where i accidentally tapt my tomb for lethal..

how do you guys like 4 eyes? i like the blow outs so far.

this is my current list:


http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/414918#online

To be honest I haven't played with 4 eyes in quite some time but I think I'm going to give it another try and up the count. There's been a few hands where I've thought "wow, if I had an eye here this hand would be so good". Of course, the drawback is another dead topdeck after the first but I think it might be worth it in any case. The games I win are the games I'm very explosive for the most part, though it can play the mid-game ok the late game gets much tougher against grindy decks like Miracles, Lands and Shardless.

Which brings me to my next question, how are people still finding Jitte? It feels really slow to me and drawing 2 of them feels awful :( In some matchups (Infect, DnT, Elves) it's flat out dominant but I'm really considering dropping down to a single copy, as it feels like I board it out fairly often.

DavidHernandez
05-14-2016, 02:48 AM
i lost a unlosable game against miracles, where i accidentally tapt my tomb to lethal.

I have added this to my signature line. Brilliant! I once cast a Juzam thinking I would kill my opponent next turn. I was so thrilled I laughed out loud and slapped the table in joy, then passed the turn. My opponent looked at me, drew a card and said, "go," and I died at the beginning of my upkeep having been at one life...

I love this game!

talpa
05-14-2016, 04:03 AM
I goldfished some games having Matter Reshaper replaced with Eldrazi Skyspawner. It puts you back to the problem of colored mana sources (...) unless you have 14 consistent color eldrazi mana sources. (4 Cavern, 4 Crossroads, 3 painlands, 3 Mox)

I played, as I wrote, with 12 (4 Tundra, 4 Adarkar Wastes, 4 Cavern) and I found that ok. I suppose you can easily go to 13 adding 1 crossroad... replacing for example the endbringer in my list.

Noloam_
05-14-2016, 06:18 AM
To be honest I haven't played with 4 eyes in quite some time but I think I'm going to give it another try and up the count. There's been a few hands where I've thought "wow, if I had an eye here this hand would be so good". Of course, the drawback is another dead topdeck after the first but I think it might be worth it in any case. The games I win are the games I'm very explosive for the most part, though it can play the mid-game ok the late game gets much tougher against grindy decks like Miracles, Lands and Shardless.

Which brings me to my next question, how are people still finding Jitte? It feels really slow to me and drawing 2 of them feels awful :( In some matchups (Infect, DnT, Elves) it's flat out dominant but I'm really considering dropping down to a single copy, as it feels like I board it out fairly often.

yes that is my point. i dont think eldrazi functions great without eyes. you can sometimes have artifacts that you cant cast with eye. but i run 2 urborgs for that.

i also had my thoughts about jitte. but i guess you really need it against other aggro decks. i also like it against UR and burn.

bonkotsu
05-14-2016, 09:12 AM
I need to find a version I am happy with. Lately I have been testing with Displacer in the main, Worldbreaker in the side. Split 2 contortion 2 wail main, 2 wail side. VS infect I like my match a lot more. I haven't had the issues some players are having VS delver variants. Maybe I am lucky? I was trying a build that was a little more land heavy and ran 1 Newlamog, it was great to tutor up vs the grindier matches but overall slow in general.

Our local meta is pretty "inbred" as some people call it. We have a few people who rotate normal decks then there are people like myself and a few friends who will sleeve up tin fins, worldgorger combo, grixis painter, mono red welder, the cure, tezz, and some other odd ball decks.

Personally I need to test more, I feel like I am not piloting the deck correctly. Is colorless the way to go? White? It seems most lists are the same 50 cards with 10 flex slots.

darkgh0st
05-14-2016, 12:50 PM
Played with the white version at my LGS FNM last night.
Went 2-2, losses to Reanimator and Storm... more like losses to not getting good cards in my openers. Had to mull to 5 three times between both match-ups. There was a game that I had 4 Eldrazi Displacers on the field vs Reanimator, but he hardcasted a Grave Titan. I didn't have enough mana to keep on flicking tokens due to mana screw. I lost shortly after.

Someone playing the colorless version went 4-0

Barook
05-14-2016, 02:24 PM
Latest league results: 3-2 (played terrible in this one and totally deserved those losses)

And 4-1, which was basically a nightmare gauntlet:

R1: Black Staxx 1-2 (G3, he had a T3 Leyline Helmet kill despite me having a T1 Thorn while wastelanding me). :really:
R2: Pyromancer Grixis Control 2-1 (the amount of Pyromancer tokens he shat out in G1 was unholy. It was noteworthy that double Thorn G3 completely wrecked him.)
R3: Lands 2-1 (G1 he wasteland locked me quickly, G2 & G3 he I overrun him while he does nothing meaningful. Lucky, I guess)
R4: Shardless BUG 2-1 (the good ol' overrun with All is Dust back-up.)
R5: Mono W D&T (G1 I had tripple Endless One with Eye on T1, he could never race that.)

On a slightly different note:

Legacy Challenge time! - only 54 players this time.

5-1 total - Top 8 inbound

R1: 12-Post 2-0 (G1 TKS + one Displacer activation take his GSZ & Titan, while his Ugin is a glorified double Bolt machine before he dies. G2 he gets a slow start and he scoops after I play TKS with double Mimic on the field)
R2: Grixis Delver 2-0 (looks like the overrun plan actually works)
R3: Sneak & Show 2-1 (G1 I didn't know what he was on, so I get rekt by Sneak Attack Emrakul. G2 I take his Emrakul with TKS and counter his S&T with Wail. G3 he Shows in Griselbrand, I put in Displacer. I don't have white mana, but tripple Temple, so he never stood a chance to attack with anything. :laugh: )
R4: Esper Stoneblade 1-2 (G1 I got wrecked by T3 TNN into T5 Batterskull. I could have won G3 easily if I had drawn a single Cavern of Souls, but since it ALL my Caverns were in the bottom 15 of my deck, he kept countering all my threats. Fuck you, MODO shuffler.)
R5: Burn 2-1 (really close games, with Chalice @1 doing the main work)
R6: BUG Delver 2-0 (yes, the overrun plan is the to-go strategy agaisnt Delver, as it seems)

I'll keep this post updated with my matches, similiar to last time.

Noloam_
05-14-2016, 04:16 PM
Latest league results: 3-2 (played terrible in this one and totally deserved those losses)


R2: Pyromancer Grixis Control 2-1 (the amount of Pyromancer tokens he shat out in G1 was unholy. It was noteworthy that double Thorn G3 completely wrecked him.)




wut? keeping in thorns after boarding? i dont have room for that. i board out my 2 thorns for 2 needles on their wastelands.

Barook
05-14-2016, 04:19 PM
wut? keeping in thorns after boarding? i dont have room for that. i board out my 2 thorns for 2 needles on their wastelands.
I run Thorns in the board, not MD. I actually brought them in after getting the suggestion from my playtesting partner. Note that I'm on the GW build.

Noloam_
05-14-2016, 04:33 PM
I run Thorns in the board, not MD. I actually brought them in after getting the suggestion from my playtesting partner. Note that I'm on the GW build.

i know you play the GW. but still, it doesnt seem that great (no offense). you slow them down 1 turn. After that, they play around it


i went 4-1 today :(. lost to another eldrazi dude who had it all. i had to mull and kept 3 one colorless mana lands.

won 2 times from dredge. one of them was manaless. mulling to leyline of the void FTW 2 times XD

the_goat
05-14-2016, 05:07 PM
Top8'd a GP Trial for Prague today (18 players)

Colorless build

25 lands
4 Caverns
4 Tombs
3 Cities
3 Wasteland
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Temples
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg

21 creatures
4 Mimics
2 Reshapers
4 TKS
4 Smashers
4 Endless Ones
1 Endbringer
2 Simian Spirit Guide

9 artifacts
4 chalices
3 thorns
2 Jitte

5 instants
3 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the void
2 Dragon's claw (while listing the deck I scouted 3 burn decks in the room)
1 Zuran Orb (see above
1 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
2 Null Rod
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Revoker

Match 1 - burn
I win easily the first one, nothwithstanding a price of progress that halves my life total - TKS takes care of second price and chalice for 1 takes care of the rest.
I side out endbringer and dismembers for zuran orb and dragon claws. I stall the match with chalice for 1 and 2...he stalls it even more with ensaring bridge...i cry inside thinking about my endbringer in the side..but chalice covers my ass...so i stall even more the match with chalice for 6! but i lose to double rift bolt...game three is super fast...i side in ratchet bomb and endbringer in case he finds bridge again...but mimics + double smasher are too much for him to handle.

Match 2 - reanimator
I know what I play against and I am happy for my leylines in side..
First game I keep a super greedy hand on the play...eye of ugyn and triple endless one...i play them attack for 6 and play mimic I draw turn 2...he entombs his elesh norn...and prays for a second land...draws gitaxian probe...but still no land...total game lasted approx 4 minutes...I am glad I kept that hand
Second game i start with leyline and tomb into chalice...he dazes it...and never find 3 land for S&T

Match 3 - Deathblade
My only loss of the swiss...Liliana plus lingering soul to block my monsters is very bad...both games i never manage to get rid of a turn 3 liliana...

Match 4 - Death and Taxes
I remember only G3 where I resolve a chalice for 1, double mimic turn 2 and win by wailing his mistic and attacking for 15 with smasher and mimics

Match 5 - ID with burn

Quarterfinals - I got paired with the Deathblade guy again...half of the top8 is already having byes and plays only for the money prize...I obviously got paired with the only guy that has no byes...and he crushes me again with Liliana and 3 lingering souls + flashback (i had jitte to take care of some tokens...but he finds white mana for vindicate)

GPT won by 4c delver piloted by a platinum pro vs death and taxes

2 eldrazi in the room both in top8

Last night I went 3-1 on a legacy FNM - losing only to lands

This is my second tournament and both times the deck brought me to prizes - I like it even if I really dislike 3x city of traitors - forcing me to awful decisions...
the_goat

Barook
05-14-2016, 06:40 PM
Did 5-1 in the Swiss, which is a guaranteed Top 8 slot.

JordanTheJew, the previous March champion, takes the #1 spot with 6-0, assuming he's still playing Dredge.

The hope to defend my title is still there.

Edit: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand dead. Was paired with Maverick :rolleyes: and got facerolled by double KotR G1 and tripple KotR G2. Oh well, still finished in the money.

Sisyphos
05-15-2016, 04:24 AM
Went 5-0 at the local GPT with Barook's GW-build (Dropped before the T8 though as I won't be making the trip). Beat 2x ANT, DnT, Elves and Miracles. All praise to Barook!

xArabOfficerx
05-15-2016, 12:22 PM
i know you play the GW. but still, it doesnt seem that great (no offense). you slow them down 1 turn. After that, they play around it


i went 4-1 today :(. lost to another eldrazi dude who had it all. i had to mull and kept 3 one colorless mana lands.

won 2 times from dredge. one of them was manaless. mulling to leyline of the void FTW 2 times XD

I've been impressed by your recent scores on MTGGoldfish with the build, but I'm just not sold on the 4 Eye's. Could you explain why you believe Eye is essential as a 4 of and not 3? Also, I've been debating between the Colorless and the G/W Splash and both are a toss up. Why Colorless over the splash? I've ended up coming to this conclusion, but I may be totally wrong.

Colorless: It has less ability to counter decks that seem to become an issue; however, it appears to be a lot more consistent with the lack of mana restriction. I've noticed majority of recent decks that are having successful results in both paper and MTGO are the colorless builds. The explosive starts is clearly present and easier to achieve IMO

G/W Splash: This has a lot of flexibility and power with Displacer and Worldbreaker; however, it appears that the mana can become an issue. It also appears to feel slightly slower than the Colorless build when it comes with the "explosive" starts but later game is there.

Too me you could either run one or the other, I guess just personal preference. If you like to play a tempo build then G/W is your style; however, if you look for that explosive start where you overrun your opponent before they can do much then colorless is where you want to go. Again this is what I've been observing; I could be completely off. Would love everyone's thoughts on this, because it appears that many are questioning what build they should even run at this point. So any thoughts on Why you choose your build and what it offers would be nice!

Noloam_
05-15-2016, 01:41 PM
I've been impressed by your recent scores on MTGGoldfish with the build, but I'm just not sold on the 4 Eye's. Could you explain why you believe Eye is essential as a 4 of and not 3? Also, I've been debating between the Colorless and the G/W Splash and both are a toss up. Why Colorless over the splash?

tnx. because without eye of ugin, eldrazi is just a weak sort of affinity deck. Eye gets wastelanded all day. Eye gives more blow-outs. I first thought that everybody who was playing 4 eyes, was a greedy fool.

Im testing a similair list as barook for GW. im realy not sold on having no thorns main. I played ANT for 3 years in a row and i like to punish that deck. The colorless list seems very consistent in my opinion.

i will play simian spirit guide all day over petal:

-It gives you a 2/2 dude when reshaper triggers
-you can cast it though blood moon
-It does not get taxed by thorn
-I play chalice on 0 sometimes. this will counter petal

xArabOfficerx
05-15-2016, 01:47 PM
tnx. because without eye of ugin, eldrazi is just a weak sort of affinity deck. Eye gets wastelanded all day. Eye gives more blow-outs. I first thought that everybody who was playing 4 eyes, was a greedy fool.

Im testing a similair list as barook for GW. im realy not sold on having no thorns main. I played ANT for 3 years in a row and i like to punish that deck. The colorless list seems very consistent in my opinion

I just edited my post above with my thoughts on each build and what I have seen, and that is exactly what I'm noticing. The colorless build has been doing a lot better as of recent because the consistency is there; however, the flexibility isn't as strong as the G/W build. I guess it comes down to what you prefer (Tempo or Explosive). Disruption is there in different forms as well. I've played both decks and still find myself indecisive on what I want to run in the long run. I like both builds for its reasons and I dislike both builds for their flaws. I'm just trying to find someone or a group of others that can somewhat persuade me to lean on build or the other.

Also, questions on your build. 3 Reshapers? does that seem right as most builds run 4. 25 lands as well? Did you find that 24 was a bit less inconsistent?

Noloam_
05-15-2016, 02:02 PM
I just edited my post above with my thoughts on each build and what I have seen, and that is exactly what I'm noticing. The colorless build has been doing a lot better as of recent because the consistency is there; however, the flexibility isn't as strong as the G/W build. I guess it comes down to what you prefer (Tempo or Explosive). Disruption is there in different forms as well. I've played both decks and still find myself indecisive on what I want to run in the long run. I like both builds for its reasons and I dislike both builds for their flaws. I'm just trying to find someone or a group of others that can somewhat persuade me to lean on build or the other.

Also, questions on your build. 3 Reshapers? does that seem right as most builds run 4. 25 lands as well? Did you find that 24 was a bit less inconsistent?

if you play 2 endbringers, you have to run more lands. im also fed up with getting wastelanded out of the game (my name is not noloam for nothing :tongue:) . reshaper is most of the time a 3 mana 3/2, which is very uninpressive. it seems bad card against all non-bolt/fast aggro decks. it is just a silly card, when you are looking at a angler/goyf/batterskull etc). endbringer steals games and gives you a better match against sneaky show. it is debatable, but dont see reshapers winning me a lot of games (other then vs burn/tempo matches)

RhoxWarMonk
05-15-2016, 02:05 PM
I've been impressed by your recent scores on MTGGoldfish with the build, but I'm just not sold on the 4 Eye's. Could you explain why you believe Eye is essential as a 4 of and not 3? Also, I've been debating between the Colorless and the G/W Splash and both are a toss up. Why Colorless over the splash? I've ended up coming to this conclusion, but I may be totally wrong.

Colorless: It has less ability to counter decks that seem to become an issue; however, it appears to be a lot more consistent with the lack of mana restriction. I've noticed majority of recent decks that are having successful results in both paper and MTGO are the colorless builds. The explosive starts is clearly present and easier to achieve IMO

G/W Splash: This has a lot of flexibility and power with Displacer and Worldbreaker; however, it appears that the mana can become an issue. It also appears to feel slightly slower than the Colorless build when it comes with the "explosive" starts but later game is there.

Too me you could either run one or the other, I guess just personal preference. If you like to play a tempo build then G/W is your style; however, if you look for that explosive start where you overrun your opponent before they can do much then colorless is where you want to go. Again this is what I've been observing; I could be completely off. Would love everyone's thoughts on this, because it appears that many are questioning what build they should even run at this point. So any thoughts on Why you choose your build and what it offers would be nice!

You more or less hit the nail on the head, I've been playing GW a lot and while I feel it's fantastic, I am going to go back and playtest the colorless version some more to gain better experience. My observations are similar to yours, however, I rarely have problems with the mana in order to cast Displacer or World Breaker. I do however find it much less explosive that the colorless builds, for all the reasons you mentioned. SSG is far and away better than lotus petal but in the GW build, you don't have that luxury. I still like Factories over Wastelands though, regardless of the build.

Which one is "better" I believe is about playstyle, as you said. Both are very viable and can put up good results. I've had some success with the GW version in paperback (5-1 and 3-1 in my last 2 tournaments) but now I'll be playtesting the 4 eye/more explosive build that Noloam is running. I figure, it's still a new deck, there's possibly many small variations that could end up mattering in the long run, so might as well try them out. If I don't enjoy it as much, I'll go back to the GW version. I'm gonna miss Displacer in the colorless shell though :( That thing is a beast...

xArabOfficerx
05-15-2016, 03:08 PM
You more or less hit the nail on the head, I've been playing GW a lot and while I feel it's fantastic, I am going to go back and playtest the colorless version some more to gain better experience. My observations are similar to yours, however, I rarely have problems with the mana in order to cast Displacer or World Breaker. I do however find it much less explosive that the colorless builds, for all the reasons you mentioned. SSG is far and away better than lotus petal but in the GW build, you don't have that luxury. I still like Factories over Wastelands though, regardless of the build.

Which one is "better" I believe is about playstyle, as you said. Both are very viable and can put up good results. I've had some success with the GW version in paperback (5-1 and 3-1 in my last 2 tournaments) but now I'll be playtesting the 4 eye/more explosive build that Noloam is running. I figure, it's still a new deck, there's possibly many small variations that could end up mattering in the long run, so might as well try them out. If I don't enjoy it as much, I'll go back to the GW version. I'm gonna miss Displacer in the colorless shell though :( That thing is a beast...

I as well am going to switch back to the Colorless build and see how it runs compared to the GW build, as you said the deck is new and still needs testing on both ends.

Scott
05-15-2016, 09:31 PM
4 Serum Powders in today's 9th place Eldrazi deck (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=102923) at SCG Indy.

Barook
05-15-2016, 10:50 PM
4 Serum Powders in today's 9th place Eldrazi deck (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=102923) at SCG Indy.
Maindeck, nonetheless (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=102923)

Seems interesting, considering he runs zero MD removal (unless you count the Endbringer).

Eldariel
05-15-2016, 11:26 PM
The idea certainly has merit. It increases the amount of games where you just slam down a T1 Chalice and win, and overall getting free mulligans in a deck whose greatest power is the explosive early game is nice. Hardcasting it accelerates into Reality Smasher, Endbringer, big Endless One and even Eye activation so it's not useless in that sense either. And it of course gives you Blood Moon-proof source of colorless for all your toys. The cost is very real though: running colored cards with 4 additional purely colorless sources seems nigh' impossible which cuts away one of the best manasinks (and indeed, one of the strongest cards) in the deck in Eldrazi Displacer, and the slots used are far from free. As an accelerant, it's certainly no Grim Monolith, Mindstone, Worn Powerstone or Thran Dynamo. Still, given how much the deck plays off the opening hand, some worse topdecks might be worth the trade-off of a higher likelihood of a superexplosive hand in colorless lists.

Noloam_
05-16-2016, 04:29 AM
i think serum powder is a solid plan. but it makes you cry sometimes when you have no removal.

he is also playing 4 eyes ^^


man i just won from a miracles dude, who played ensnaring bridge & back to basics. haters man! but he forgot to fetch in response to my needle, so i named flooded strand. then he was looking a 2 attacking factorys and a smasher, with one tundra in play .LEL

talpa
05-16-2016, 09:17 AM
Maindeck, nonetheless (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=102923)
Seems interesting, considering he runs zero MD removal (unless you count the Endbringer).

I think that's really worth considering.
Though maybe we should test more, for the exact numbers (at first sight, it seems to me that if you already have a tool for free mulligans, you could afford to be less solid, for example three instead of four eyes of ugin). Also, you can find the space for wails by cutting for example endbringer, one thorn, one land... my personal preference would be to cut jitte's as well.

anyway, thank you both for pointing out this list.

Cire
05-16-2016, 10:05 AM
Maindeck, nonetheless (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=102923)

Seems interesting, considering he runs zero MD removal (unless you count the Endbringer).

Or jitte, I guess :eyebrow:

razvan
05-16-2016, 09:31 PM
So I marathoned this thread since I would like to pick this up. I have one question I seem to not have found an answer for (might also be the stupidest question).

In the GW build, what is the benefit of Corrupted Crossroads over Brushland? Other than the damage/life difference.

Barook
05-16-2016, 09:34 PM
So I marathoned this thread since I would like to pick this up. I have one question I seem to not have found an answer for (might also be the stupidest question).

In the GW build, what is the benefit of Corrupted Crossroads over Brushland? Other than the damage/life difference.
Assuming you don't run non-Eldrazi colored cards or Eldrazi outside of the GW spectrum, they're functionally the same. No need to worry about it.

Noloam_
05-17-2016, 04:25 AM
I like the list that this GW dude played

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/417161#online

thorns main and endbringer main (L). i played against him in the swiss. he was 4-0 i was 2-0 ;/. weird uppair i guess. i also go no good sideboard against the mirror. especially vs the GW build

Quasim0ff
05-17-2016, 05:08 AM
I like the list that this GW dude played

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/417161#online

thorns main and endbringer main (L). i played against him in the swiss. he was 4-0 i was 2-0 ;/. weird uppair i guess. i also go no good sideboard against the mirror. especially vs the GW build

Just FYI: Leagues aren't swiss ;)

Noloam_
05-17-2016, 05:30 AM
Just FYI: Leagues aren't swiss ;)

yes that is the lesson that i've learned XD

i went 4-1 again today. shardless racked my dream again. how do you guys board against shardless?

i bring in: 2 needle, 2 all is dust, 2 sphere of resitance

i board out: 2 thorn, 4 chalice

the_goat
05-17-2016, 11:04 AM
third tournament with eldrazi - third times I win prizes!
3-1 yesterday evening in Prague...

lost the first to lands - very lucky opponent...i start g3 with leyline and turn 1 null rod after his land + land diamond....
unfortunately for me my second land to cast reshaper is urborg - he finds stage and no third land...i attack with smasher turn 3...still no 3rd land...last useful turn...he finds the 20/20 land...

won against 12 post - chalice for 1 and wastelands

won against deathblade - my opponent leaves on top of my deck an eldrazi mimic (chalice for 1 and for 2 on the board) without realizing I have cavern - this allows me to get rid of Jace and win easily....

won the mirror siding in zuran orb that allows me to be always + 8 lives virtually and winning the smasher race...

I love the deck...

tonight testing against the land player that beat me last 2 tournaments and against another player with ANT

Barook
05-17-2016, 03:24 PM
Another 4-1 league run - the curse continues...

R1: Miracles 2-0
R2: Grixis Delver 2-0 (the overrun strategy works like a charm)
R3: WR Eldrazi 0-2 (the deck had Displacer AND Obligator (which rekt me hard G1) MD, thus it was even better in the mirror than my list; G2 I was completely manascrewed)
R4: Mono C Eldrazi 2-1 (misplayed G1 brainlessly (you should play Wail before the Mimic trigger), still won G2 & G3 on the back of Displacer)
R5: ANT 2-1 (G1 I locked him out with Chalice, so I could only guess from his fetches that he's on Storm; G2 he goes off T3, G3 double TKS + Reality Smasher killed him super quick)

Only match lost to the Wx mirror - I can live with that. :tongue:

Deckerator
05-17-2016, 04:16 PM
@ Barook
Do you play still the same list from weeks before?

Barook
05-17-2016, 04:39 PM
@ Barook
Do you play still the same list from weeks before?
No reason to change it when it runs like a charm (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/416667#online)

@Noloam_ : All is Dust is a must, but your other SB options don't seem that great in general. I'd probably try to bring in Leyline instead to slow down their Goyf/DRS, but it gives you potential dead draws.

razvan
05-17-2016, 06:15 PM
Assuming you don't run non-Eldrazi colored cards or Eldrazi outside of the GW spectrum, they're functionally the same. No need to worry about it.
Ah ok thanks. I figured, but I have been known to miss the obvious :P

maraxusofkelds
05-17-2016, 06:26 PM
yes that is the lesson that i've learned XD

i went 4-1 again today. shardless racked my dream again. how do you guys board against shardless?

i bring in: 2 needle, 2 all is dust, 2 sphere of resitance

i board out: 2 thorn, 4 chalice

3 all is dust, 4 leylines (gofy and wasteland are your single worst enemies in this matchup, a single leyline blanks gofy enough that he can just wall everything you own and cant be abrupt decayed), another warping wail for deathrite and strix

Like barook said, your gameplan is to overrun them before they card advantage you to death so no point in boarding out your low cost threats.

xArabOfficerx
05-17-2016, 06:52 PM
No reason to change it when it runs like a charm (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/416667#online)

@Noloam_ : All is Dust is a must, but your other SB options don't seem that great in general. I'd probably try to bring in Leyline instead to slow down their Goyf/DRS, but it gives you potential dead draws.

I do notice that the Colorless has a lacking sideboard compared to the G/W build with Worldbreaker.

maraxusofkelds
05-17-2016, 10:55 PM
Quick question. What is the benefit to running lotus petal over elvish spirit guide? Immunity to cabal therapy or discards? How often would they pick that over one of our threats? I feel like SSG/Elvish Spirit Guide are both better esp since it allows us heavy counterplay to daze when they dont expect it.

Barook
05-17-2016, 11:17 PM
Quick question. What is the benefit to running lotus petal over elvish spirit guide? Immunity to cabal therapy or discards? How often would they pick that over one of our threats? I feel like SSG/Elvish Spirit Guide are both better esp since it allows us heavy counterplay to daze when they dont expect it.
Color fixing. There is no Angelic Spirit Guide to exile for white. Simple as that.

Noloam_
05-18-2016, 03:00 AM
hehehehe :)


i was playing against H0cusP0cus yesterday (a former eldrazi player with good results). He played tower of magistrate. Not only against batterskull and jitte. but also against strix, and sometimes shardless agent himself. i think about testing this

5-0 today. lets challange the GW team for the best results ;). is riehu on my team or not :rolleyes: ? (he better be)


i will try the leyline's next time btw

Barook
05-18-2016, 05:54 AM
@Noloam: Since you keep 5-0ing, I'm curious about your match-ups for analysis. It would be interesting to see if you ran just into good match-ups where the GW build would be just as good (if not better) or if there are matches where the colorless build is clearly superior (and if so, finding out what's the reason for that is important).

Noloam_
05-18-2016, 06:23 AM
@Noloam: Since you keep 5-0ing, I'm curious about your match-ups for analysis. It would be interesting to see if you ran just into good match-ups where the GW build would be just as good (if not better) or if there are matches where the colorless build is clearly superior (and if so, finding out what's the reason for that is important).

most of my 5-0 are based on playing one time at least against ANT. i have a anti storm package, that is just wrecking to them. so that is a bye. it seems like a always run into: 1 storm, 1 or 2 miracles, 1 delver, 2 randoms. if i run into 2 times shardless, there is a great chance i go 4-1 or 3-2 :(

i win 90% of my miracle matches. Ratchet bomb is just bonkers against all hate. 50/50 of the U/R matches. 40/60 of the team america matches (in their favour). and i lose a lot against esper stoneblade and BUG shardless. esper stoneblade is just not even funny

Barook
05-18-2016, 07:07 AM
most of my 5-0 are based on playing one time at least against ANT. i have a anti storm package, that is just wrecking to them. so that is a bye. it seems like a always run into: 1 storm, 1 or 2 miracles, 1 delver, 2 randoms. if i run into 2 times shardless, there is a great chance i go 4-1 or 3-2 :(

i win 90% of my miracle matches. Ratchet bomb is just bonkers against all hate. 50/50 of the U/R matches. 40/60 of the team america matches (in their favour). and i lose a lot against esper stoneblade and BUG shardless. esper stoneblade is just not even funny
Well, I just lost a match vs Esper because I misplayed G1 and should have killed the SFM instead of the Batterskull token. The 5/6 took over the game. Should have been a clean 2-0 instead, but I'm an idiot. :rolleyes: The white build should still be able to put a better fight due to Displacer.

Your claims about Miracles are interesting. I'm currently 63,2% vs Miracles. Pre-board is pretty favorable and I win most of the times. The real trouble comes when they board in their Mentors, Wear/Tears and Blood Moon. What's your boarding strategy? Maybe I should bring in Thorn over World Breaker, anti-synergy with All is Dust be damned.

Noloam_
05-18-2016, 07:33 AM
Well, I just lost a match vs Esper because I misplayed G1 and should have killed the SFM instead of the Batterskull token. The 5/6 took over the game. Should have been a clean 2-0 instead, but I'm an idiot. :rolleyes: The white build should still be able to put a better fight due to Displacer.

Your claims about Miracles are interesting. I'm currently 63,2% vs Miracles. Pre-board is pretty favorable and I win most of the times. The real trouble comes when they board in their Mentors, Wear/Tears and Blood Moon. What's your boarding strategy? Maybe I should bring in Thorn over World Breaker, anti-synergy with All is Dust be damned.

yes you bet your boots that GW is better vs all blade builds. you dont play thorns main. thats the whole difference vs mirracles. i board in all 4 extra disco balls postboard. Miracles then is just a clunky sitting duck, activating top, while getting smashes in the meanwhile. snapcaster + plow for 5 mana wont cut it.

my plan is just play 1 dude and attack with it untill it gets removed. never overextend. board out 1 city of traiters, 3 matter reshapers, 1 endbringer, 1 dismember, 1 jitte and the 2 simian spirit guides. bring in 1 all is dust , 2 needles, 2 ratchet bomb, 2 thorn, 2 sphere.

Barook
05-18-2016, 07:51 AM
yes you bet your boots that GW is better vs all blade builds. you dont play thorns main. thats the whole difference vs mirracles. i board in all 4 extra disco balls postboard. Miracles then is just a clunky sitting duck, activating top, while getting smashes in the meanwhile. snapcaster + plow for 5 mana wont cut it.

my plan is just play 1 dude and attack with it untill it gets removed. never overextend. board out 1 city of traiters, 3 matter reshapers, 1 endbringer, 1 dismember, 1 jitte and the 2 simian spirit guides. bring in 1 all is dust , 2 needles, 2 ratchet bomb, 2 thorn, 2 sphere.
Blade is a dance on the razor's edge. Next round was vs Bant Blade that was lost because I drew my 7th mana land one turn too late for All is Dust in G3. But it's those little things that separate a 5-0 from a mediocre 3-2. :rolleyes:

Obviously your deck is better vs Miracles with all those board cards. Needle on SDT is great (when it doesn't clash with Chalice). I'm not really sold on Sphere, though, as it hindered my quite a bit as well when I playtested it.

As for the Shardless match, note that my current GW build was constructed with Shardless in mind after getting horribly destroyed before. And it succeeded quite well in turning around the match-up, considering I'm currently 8-2 against them in matches, and those losses were mainly based on shitty variance. I would definitely try to drop the Faerie for a 3rd All is Dust. You're gonna need it. The lack of spot removal is also going to hurt you in that match. Is Pithing Needle really that much better overall than Warping Wail, which also has applications in the Miracle match-up and vs combo? Although I can see the nonbo with the "disco plan".

Noloam_
05-18-2016, 07:56 AM
Blade is a dance on the razor's edge. Next round was vs Bant Blade that was lost because I drew my 7th mana land one turn too late for All is Dust in G3. But it's those little things that separate a 5-0 from a mediocre 3-2. :rolleyes:

Obviously your deck is better vs Miracles with all those board cards. Needle on SDT is great (when it doesn't clash with Chalice). I'm not really sold on Sphere, though, as it hindered my quite a bit as well when I playtested it.

As for the Shardless match, note that my current GW build was constructed with Shardless in mind after getting horribly destroyed before. And it succeeded quite well in turning around the match-up, considering I'm currently 8-2 against them in matches, and those losses were mainly based on shitty variance. I would definitely try to drop the Faerie for a 3rd All is Dust. You're gonna need it. The lack of spot removal is also going to hurt you in that match. Is Pithing Needle really that much better overall than Warping Wail, which also has applications in the Miracle match-up and vs combo? Although I can see the nonbo with the "disco plan".

yes sphere does hinder yourself. but without a turn 1 or 2 turn 2 drop against ANT, you are basically dead. that is a insane record against shardless. what do you board in and out? yeah perhaps i do need to cut the faerie. its more an emotional call, because i get turn 1 entombed ,turn 2 reanimated 10/10 times. i also like it vs lands, because i already cutted my wastelands.

i board in needle against ALL wasteland decks. its also great vs sneaky show and belcher. so there is no way im gonna cut those, as long as i play wastelandless eldrazi. and yes the disco plan and the wails are kinda a nonbo, that why i cut 1 or 2 wails in the reanimate match also. i dont like the synergy with eye of ugin and the disco balls

Barook
05-18-2016, 08:26 AM
Finished my League run 3-2, matches being ANT (win), Esper & Bant Blade (loses), Miraces (win) and Esper Blade (win). 3 Blade decks out of 5 matches is a tad bit too much for my taste.


yes sphere does hinder yourself. but without a turn 1 or 2 turn 2 drop against ANT, you are basically dead. that is a insane record against shardless. what do you board in and out? yeah perhaps i do need to cut the faerie. its more an emotional call, because i get turn 1 entombed ,turn 2 reanimated 10/10 times. i also like it vs lands, because i already cutted my wastelands.

i board in needle against ALL wasteland decks. its also great vs sneaky show and belcher. so there is no way im gonna cut those, as long as i play wastelandless eldrazi. and yes the disco plan and the wails are kinda a nonbo, that why i cut 1 or 2 wails in the reanimate match also. i dont like the synergy with eye of ugin and the disco balls
You're worried about Storm, out of all things, one of our best match-ups? :eyebrow: I roflstomped them even without any discoball in my 75. Due to Displacer and Karakas, I'm also less worried about Reanimator. :wink:

I can see Sphere being good vs Shardless. The plan that turned out to work best is balls-to-the-walls aggro, with All is Dust back-up for the finishing touch. I board out Chalices (not that hot), Jitte and Displacers (not many good targets here, plus you deprive them of good AD targets this way). Maybe you should bring in Leyline instead to slow them down further, but I'm on the fence regarding it due to potential dead draws later on. Pithing Needle looks like a durdle card that double as AD target, and after trying all kinds of things against Shardless, you don't want durdle (even if it looks good on the paper), you want to smash their face in.

Noloam_
05-18-2016, 08:31 AM
Finished my League run 3-2, matches being ANT (win), Esper & Bant Blade (loses), Miraces (win) and Esper Blade (win). 3 Blade decks out of 5 matches is a tad bit too much for my taste.


You're worried about Storm, out of all things, one of our best match-ups? :eyebrow: I roflstomped them even without any discoball in my 75. Due to Displacer and Karakas, I'm also less worried about Reanimator. :wink:

I can see Sphere being good vs Shardless. The plan that turned out to work best is balls-to-the-walls aggro, with All is Dust back-up for the finishing touch. I board out Chalices (not that hot), Jitte and Displacers (not many good targets here, plus you deprive them of good AD targets this way). Maybe you should bring in Leyline instead to slow them down further, but I'm on the fence regarding it due to potential dead draws later on. Pithing Needle looks like a durdle card that double as AD target, and after trying all kinds of things against Shardless, you don't want durdle (even if it looks good on the paper), you want to smash their face in.

well thats is quite lucky i guess. Because only chalice and thought knots wont always do the trick. they can turn 1 discard, turn 2 go off quite easily. i played storm for 3 years in a row. yes the white build is great vs reanimate ^^

yes i play board in sphere on the play. it eats a fow a lot of times, which is great. needle is not otimal vs shardless i agree. But it can also catch a jace or liliana. yes i will try the leylines for sure the next time. i do like jitte in that match. it gets rid of the stupid strixes

i will board -2 thorn -4 chalice + 4 leyline +2 all is dust

Zombie
05-18-2016, 08:54 AM
Finished my League run 3-2, matches being ANT (win), Esper & Bant Blade (loses), Miraces (win) and Esper Blade (win). 3 Blade decks out of 5 matches is a tad bit too much for my taste.


You're worried about Storm, out of all things, one of our best match-ups? :eyebrow: I roflstomped them even without any discoball in my 75. Due to Displacer and Karakas, I'm also less worried about Reanimator. :wink:

I can see Sphere being good vs Shardless. The plan that turned out to work best is balls-to-the-walls aggro, with All is Dust back-up for the finishing touch. I board out Chalices (not that hot), Jitte and Displacers (not many good targets here, plus you deprive them of good AD targets this way). Maybe you should bring in Leyline instead to slow them down further, but I'm on the fence regarding it due to potential dead draws later on. Pithing Needle looks like a durdle card that double as AD target, and after trying all kinds of things against Shardless, you don't want durdle (even if it looks good on the paper), you want to smash their face in.

What kind of list do you run?

Barook
05-18-2016, 08:57 AM
well thats is quite lucky i guess. Because only chalice and thought knots wont always do the trick. they can turn 1 discard, turn 2 go off quite easily. i played storm for 3 years in a row. yes the white build is great vs reanimate ^^

yes i play board in sphere on the play. it eats a fow a lot of times, which is great. needle is not otimal vs shardless i agree. But it can also catch a jace or liliana. yes i will try the leylines for sure the next time. i do like jitte in that match. it gets rid of the stupid strixes

i will board -2 thorn -4 chalice + 4 leyline +2 all is dust
You also have Warping Wail and post-board Leyline. It's not that tragic.

As for Shardless, you have Smashers and Factories to deal with PWs.

The problem with Jitte is that you need to charge it first before it can kill a Strix. And more often than not, you have to run a creature into Strix to charge it, defeating the purpose. Getting your Jitte killed while expecting to get charge counters on it also spells trouble.

@Zombie: I linked the list last page.

Jonathan Alexander
05-18-2016, 09:11 AM
@Zombie: I linked the list last page.

You should just put a link to your mtggoldfish archive in your signature. Maybe people stop asking then.

Barook
05-18-2016, 09:14 AM
You should just put a link to your mtggoldfish archive in your signature. Maybe people stop asking then.
But that would also tempt people more often to look up my decklist when I'm playing against them. Otherwise, I would have done that already.

Whitefaces
05-18-2016, 09:20 AM
For what it's worth I've been helping a friend test stompy decks by playing Miracles and Thorns have been really effective, quite surprisingly so. He's on Goblin Stompy, but I think the same logic will work here.

toor
05-18-2016, 10:41 AM
Finished my League run 3-2, matches being ANT (win), Esper & Bant Blade (loses), Miraces (win) and Esper Blade (win). 3 Blade decks out of 5 matches is a tad bit too much for my taste.


You're worried about Storm, out of all things, one of our best match-ups? :eyebrow: I roflstomped them even without any discoball in my 75. Due to Displacer and Karakas, I'm also less worried about Reanimator. :wink:

I can see Sphere being good vs Shardless. The plan that turned out to work best is balls-to-the-walls aggro, with All is Dust back-up for the finishing touch. I board out Chalices (not that hot), Jitte and Displacers (not many good targets here, plus you deprive them of good AD targets this way). Maybe you should bring in Leyline instead to slow them down further, but I'm on the fence regarding it due to potential dead draws later on. Pithing Needle looks like a durdle card that double as AD target, and after trying all kinds of things against Shardless, you don't want durdle (even if it looks good on the paper), you want to smash their face in.

What exactly are the AID mainly for? D&T I assume. But are there any matchups you like them in that you think I might be surprised?

Do you bring some number in vs Miracles?

Been playing your list as the gauntelt in preparation for Columbus, but I feel like there is lack of Blood Moon answers (Ratchet bomb or other). Is this a conscious decision because you don't expect blood moons or you just don't see them as a big deal?

Barook
05-18-2016, 01:32 PM
What exactly are the AID mainly for? D&T I assume. But are there any matchups you like them in that you think I might be surprised?

Do you bring some number in vs Miracles?

Been playing your list as the gauntelt in preparation for Columbus, but I feel like there is lack of Blood Moon answers (Ratchet bomb or other). Is this a conscious decision because you don't expect blood moons or you just don't see them as a big deal?
It's a conscious decision. Ratchet Bomb is a terrible answer to Blood Moon as it takes 4 (!) turns of durdling before doing anything of relevance. If you have a better solution to Blood Moon that isn't extremely narrow, I'm all ears, as SB slots are precious.

All is Dust is for control/midrange match-ups.

noloam's list got featured on the mothership today. (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-digital/introduction-online-eternal-2016-05-18)

xArabOfficerx
05-18-2016, 02:07 PM
It's a conscious decision. Ratchet Bomb is a terrible answer to Blood Moon as it takes 4 (!) turns of durdling before doing anything of relevance. If you have a better solution to Blood Moon that isn't extremely narrow, I'm all ears, as SB slots are precious.

All is Dust is for control/midrange match-ups.

noloam's list got featured on the mothership today. (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-digital/introduction-online-eternal-2016-05-18)

Wow, absolute honor it must be for him! Congrats noloam!

maraxusofkelds
05-18-2016, 02:10 PM
most of my 5-0 are based on playing one time at least against ANT. i have a anti storm package, that is just wrecking to them. so that is a bye. it seems like a always run into: 1 storm, 1 or 2 miracles, 1 delver, 2 randoms. if i run into 2 times shardless, there is a great chance i go 4-1 or 3-2 :(

i win 90% of my miracle matches. Ratchet bomb is just bonkers against all hate. 50/50 of the U/R matches. 40/60 of the team america matches (in their favour). and i lose a lot against esper stoneblade and BUG shardless. esper stoneblade is just not even funny

Grats noloam on having your list featured. Anyway, what is your gameplan vs delvers? The matchup feels extremely 50/50 to me. If we can land a t1 chalice, we can win unless they blind flip their delvers t1 and we dont draw removal in time. Is your gameplan similar to barooks and to just rush them down as hard as possible? In that case do you ignore the flipped delver as long as possible? Seeing your results, I was wondering what you brought in from the side to deal with them besides ratchet bomb.

Noloam_
05-18-2016, 03:18 PM
lel LSV used my bad list. my current list runs the 4 eyes

my gameplan is to board out 2 thorn and bring in 2 pithing needles. thats it. BUG delver is bad, the rest is Ok


btw ratchet bomb is perfect vs miracles. ever played against back to basics? its an absolute horror. you can sneak the rachet bomb in and you have the time to tick it up. no problem

Barook
05-18-2016, 03:26 PM
lel LSV used my wrong list.

my gameplan is to board out 2 thorn and bring in 2 pithing needles. thats it. BUG delver is bad, the rest is Ok
You bring in Needle against Delver while boarding out Thorn? :eyebrow:

@toor: Stuff like this is the reason to run All is Dust (http://i.imgur.com/4QcwR4V.jpg). It's your 7-mana "I win"-button.

Noloam_
05-18-2016, 03:39 PM
You bring in Needle against Delver while boarding out Thorn? :eyebrow:

@toor: Stuff like this is the reason to run All is Dust (http://i.imgur.com/4QcwR4V.jpg). It's your 7-mana "I win"-button.


yup. thorn buys you one turn, while getting an delver swing or shaman drain in the meanwhile. that certainly is not impressive. if you get wastelanded while having a thorn i play, you really look silly. if they cant wasteland, you are just a better aggro deck. especially with the 4 caverns

rachet bomb is just an all star in a lot of matches. elves, storm, belcher etc

how whould your deck solve the back to basics problem, after you board gets plowed our terminused?

RhoxWarMonk
05-18-2016, 04:33 PM
yup. thorn buys you one turn, while getting an delver swing or shaman drain in the meanwhile. that certainly is not impressive. if you get wastelanded while having a thorn i play, you really look silly. if they cant wasteland, you are just a better aggro deck. especially with the 4 caverns

rachet bomb is just an all star in a lot of matches. elves, storm, belcher etc

how whould your deck solve the back to basics problem, after you board gets plowed our terminused?

Im glad you made that comment about Ratchet Bomb, I've been finding it very underwhelming but I haven't faced any EtW decks and very few mentors decks, which the latter is very surprising because my LGS is FILLED with Miracles players.

I'm going to be playing your decklist tonight noloam, are you liking the Endbringers much? They feel a tad slow to me, so I've gone down to 1 in my list but currently that's my only change to your main 60. Any comments on that card in particular?

Noloam_
05-19-2016, 02:14 AM
Im glad you made that comment about Ratchet Bomb, I've been finding it very underwhelming but I haven't faced any EtW decks and very few mentors decks, which the latter is very surprising because my LGS is FILLED with Miracles players.

I'm going to be playing your decklist tonight noloam, are you liking the Endbringers much? They feel a tad slow to me, so I've gone down to 1 in my list but currently that's my only change to your main 60. Any comments on that card in particular?

i also had my doubts about the bomb. untill miracles started to play a big hate package moon/bridge/moat/back2basics

well the endbringer thing is more of a local thing, that we agreed upon. Endbringer is slow. but it is a card that can steal games. And get you back from unwinnable possitions. it shoots dow strix all day. i had 2 endbringers in play against shardless lately, that was just fireworks. Im not saying it is the perfect list. perhaps it should be 4 reshaper and 1 endbringer. But im not really sold on the reshaper dude. Endbringer is also really fun to play. It prevents the eldrazi deck from becoming a boring deck in the long run :P

im now testing 2 city of traitors in the list. after my talkt with h0cusp0cus, i wanted to test 1 tower of the magistrate. against stoneforge and strix.

the_goat
05-19-2016, 03:58 AM
@NoLoam
@Barook

Why don't you create a sideboard guide for top5/top10 tier decks?
so that we can compare colorless strategy vs WG strategy

Not only a +2 sphere - 2reshaper...but a list explaining the reason...like "reshaper does nothing against miracles as they only remove, not kill...and sphere is nuts against all their spells"
[silly example...I know]

Cheers
the_goat

Noloam_
05-19-2016, 04:41 AM
@NoLoam
@Barook

Why don't you create a sideboard guide for top5/top10 tier decks?
so that we can compare colorless strategy vs WG strategy

Not only a +2 sphere - 2reshaper...but a list explaining the reason...like "reshaper does nothing against miracles as they only remove, not kill...and sphere is nuts against all their spells"
[silly example...I know]

Cheers
the_goat

Miracles:

- 3 reshaper (no vallue)
-3 simian spirit guide (blow outs into terminus dont work)
-2 city of traitors (this is an early game card)
-2 jitte (you dont want to draw both in the late game, it is still fine vs mentor, clique and snappy)


+ 2 rachet bomb (catch all vs hate)
+ 1 needle (vs top and jace)
+ 4 thorn (same as the sphere reason)
+ 1 all is dust (against a overloaded board of mentor tokens, a jace, and mostly against bloodmoon and moat)
+ 1 karakas
+ 1 endbringer (good fatty)

i keep in 1 dismember vs mentor builds over a reshaper

bug/rug delver decks:

nothing


grixis delver:


nothing


eldrazi decks:

my build is horrible vs the mirror

-4 chalice (no targets)


+1 endbringer
+2 rachet bomb (against endless one)
+1 karakas


elves:

-2 sower (Bit to slow)
-1 dismember (too much damage, you can get raced afterwards if you have an ancient tomb)
-1 matter reshaper (mediocre)

+2 all is dust (if you thoughknot their glimpse or NO, you slow them down and can flush their board afterwards)
+2 rachet bomb (catches all)


ANT:

-4 reshaper (too slow)
-2 sower (too slow)
-2 dismember (no targets)
-2 jitte (too slow)


+4 thorn (obvious)
+4 leyline (gets pif, cabal therapy and cabal ritual)
+2 rachet bomb (gets empty mainly, but can clean up their leds and petals. if they are scared for chalice and play them before chalice hits the board)


D&T:


-4 chalice ( it gets flickerwisped and only catches swords and vial. They board out the moms after boarding ofcourse)


+1 needle (against wasteland, vial, mangara, stoneforge)
+2 all is dust (is an o-k strategy. but sometimes it wont work, because you are in magic christmasland before you have 7 mana against them, they have thalia, port and wasteland)
+1 karakas (to escape the wasteland screw and bouce Thalia)


Shardless bug:

-3 spirit guide (no vallue)


+2 all is dust (cleans the board after a stalemate)
+1 endbringer

im still not very sure about this

sneak attack

- 3 reshaper (mediocre)
- 2 dismember (no good targets)
- 2 jitte (to slow)

+1 karakas
+ 1 needle (on sneak attack)
+ 4 thorn (slows their whole gameplan down while beating them in the meanwhile)
+1 endbringer

lands

-2 jitte (does nothing)
-2 dismember (no targets)
-1 wail (mediocre)

+4 leyline (vs loam)
+1 karakas (vs the token and to escape wasteland)


infect

-1 sower (to slow)

+1 needle (for nexus)

blade decks

-3 SCG (not good vs a cardavantage deck)

+2 all is dust (catches all (tnn/batterskull etc))
+1 endbriger (games Always go lategame, so its great vs batterskull and it shoots down strix)

bigup
05-19-2016, 05:49 AM
Is there a good reason for not using Revoker in the board instead of needle? Of course it's easier to remove, but it doesn't nonbos with chalice and is a castable creature under bloodmoon which can carry a jitte. Jitte+revoker saved me at least twice with bloodmoon on board.

Noloam_
05-19-2016, 06:05 AM
Is there a good reason for not using Revoker in the board instead of needle? Of course it's easier to remove, but it doesn't nonbos with chalice and is a castable creature under bloodmoon which can carry a jitte. Jitte+revoker saved me at least twice with bloodmoon on board.

revoker does not catch wasteland. which is the main reason to have a needle in the board

bigup
05-19-2016, 06:12 AM
revoker does not catch wasteland. which is the main reason to have a needle in the board

But against a stifle/wasteland delver deck in game 2 on the play, would you play in a needle 1st turn instead of chalice on 1? I think i´d rather have chalice in play ASAP against most (if not all) the relevant decks playing wasteland.

Noloam_
05-19-2016, 06:14 AM
But against a stifle/wasteland delver deck in game 2 on the play, would you play in a needle 1st turn instead of chalice on 1? I think i´d rather have chalice in play ASAP against most (if not all) the relevant decks playing wasteland.

i whould go with the turn 1 needle. turn 2 you can still play chalice and play arround daze

bigup
05-19-2016, 06:19 AM
This seems like a bit to defensive for my taste. If they don´t have wasteland, you´d basically waste a turn and give them the chance to cantrip into it or drop delver. Assuming it´s G2 and i go first they´d not be able to daze anyway.

RhoxWarMonk
05-19-2016, 08:52 AM
i also had my doubts about the bomb. untill miracles started to play a big hate package moon/bridge/moat/back2basics

well the endbringer thing is more of a local thing, that we agreed upon. Endbringer is slow. but it is a card that can steal games. And get you back from unwinnable possitions. it shoots dow strix all day. i had 2 endbringers in play against shardless lately, that was just fireworks. Im not saying it is the perfect list. perhaps it should be 4 reshaper and 1 endbringer. But im not really sold on the reshaper dude. Endbringer is also really fun to play. It prevents the eldrazi deck from becoming a boring deck in the long run :P

im now testing 2 city of traitors in the list. after my talkt with h0cusp0cus, i wanted to test 1 tower of the magistrate. against stoneforge and strix.

Do you find you generally have enough time to ratchet up that far? All those cost 3-4 but I do agree that you need SOMETHING to combat that kind of hate. One thing I really love about the GW version, World Breakers are amazing! Far less useful against blood moon though (very hard to cast and need a petal to do so) but fantastic against Moat and Bridge type locks.

Lastly, I certainly understand the appeal of Endbringer but it seems he sits in my hand as a dead draw more often than not. He's also 3rd (at least) in the priority list for me to cast him, after TKS and Reality Smasher.

I've also been souring on Jitte lately... I know some matches it's a complete blow out but it's also very slow, does virtually nothing against combo and even against decks I THINK it would be decent against (Miracles, Shardless), I find it has difficulty getting counters on because of all the removal. Outside a few decks I don't see that often (DnT, Elves), I am having a hard time justifying 2 slots in the main for them and have been considering moving them to the SB. Anyone else having similar experiences?

Noloam_
05-19-2016, 08:58 AM
Do you find you generally have enough time to ratchet up that far? All those cost 3-4 but I do agree that you need SOMETHING to combat that kind of hate. One thing I really love about the GW version, World Breakers are amazing! Far less useful against blood moon though (very hard to cast and need a petal to do so) but fantastic against Moat and Bridge type locks.

Lastly, I certainly understand the appeal of Endbringer but it seems he sits in my hand as a dead draw more often than not. He's also 3rd (at least) in the priority list for me to cast him, after TKS and Reality Smasher.

I've also been souring on Jitte lately... I know some matches it's a complete blow out but it's also very slow, does virtually nothing against combo and even against decks I THINK it would be decent against (Miracles, Shardless), I find it has difficulty getting counters on because of all the removal. Outside a few decks I don't see that often (DnT, Elves), I am having a hard time justifying 2 slots in the main for them and have been considering moving them to the SB. Anyone else having similar experiences?

time is no problem against miracles. worldbreaker is great. unless they trap you into a bloodmoon or back to basics.

jitte is the reason you win from grixis,elves and D&T

if you play 2 endbringers, you have to play the 4 eyes. with urborg it is no problem

Barook
05-19-2016, 09:05 AM
Do you find you generally have enough time to ratchet up that far? All those cost 3-4 but I do agree that you need SOMETHING to combat that kind of hate. One thing I really love about the GW version, World Breakers are amazing! Far less useful against blood moon though (very hard to cast and need a petal to do so) but fantastic against Moat and Bridge type locks.

Lastly, I certainly understand the appeal of Endbringer but it seems he sits in my hand as a dead draw more often than not. He's also 3rd (at least) in the priority list for me to cast him, after TKS and Reality Smasher.

I've also been souring on Jitte lately... I know some matches it's a complete blow out but it's also very slow, does virtually nothing against combo and even against decks I THINK it would be decent against (Miracles, Shardless), I find it has difficulty getting counters on because of all the removal. Outside a few decks I don't see that often (DnT, Elves), I am having a hard time justifying 2 slots in the main for them and have been considering moving them to the SB. Anyone else having similar experiences?
Well, I like them. If you feel different, why not just try it out? Every metagame is different. Spatial Contortions are flex slots. If you like to fill it with Ratchet Bombs to run it alongside World Breaker, feel free to do so. That doesn't make the slowness of the bomb I generally dislike go away, though. However, with the number of Miracle decks online, I might reconsider it for now.

@the_goat: My SB guide (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30500-DTB-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=944846&viewfull=1#post944846) - note that it's a bit outdated and I'll update it when I find the time, probably next week.

I noticed Noloam_ has a completely different approach in various match-ups, but those are in general not my cup of tea. If it works for him, good.

On a different note: Finally got my mojo back and 5-0'ed another league.

R1: Maverick 2-0
R2: UR Control Brew 2-1
R3: UW Blade Brew 2-1 (had TNN and artificiers :eyebrow: )
R4: UW Blade Brew 2-0 (same guy - gotta love the shitty league pairing system :rolleyes: )
R5: Miracles 2-0

RhoxWarMonk
05-19-2016, 09:34 AM
Well, I like them. If you feel different, why not just try it out? Every metagame is different. Spatial Contortions are flex slots. If you like to fill it with Ratchet Bombs to run it alongside World Breaker, feel free to do so. That doesn't make the slowness of the bomb I generally dislike go away, though. However, with the number of Miracle decks online, I might reconsider it for now.

I assume you are referring to Jitte here? I'm considering moving them to the SB but they do have some uses pre-boarding as well depending on the matchup. You're right though, certainly going to give some of these combinations a try.

I dropped the Spatial Contortions, while they are very good I got tired of not being able to deal with batterskull and goyfs (sometimes dismember doesn't even kill goyf though, which is hella awkward).

I find Ratchet Bomb very slow as well, which is why I really prefer World Breakers in that slot. However, at the moment I'm testing with noloam's build, so World Breakers aren't an option with the current build and I feel you need something against the hate cards. I still really like the white splash but SSG is so much better than lotus petal, that's the only real drawback I'm experiencing as I never found the mana to be much of an issue with the white splash.

RhoxWarMonk
05-19-2016, 09:40 AM
time is no problem against miracles. worldbreaker is great. unless they trap you into a bloodmoon or back to basics.

jitte is the reason you win from grixis,elves and D&T

if you play 2 endbringers, you have to play the 4 eyes. with urborg it is no problem

Ive been running the 4x eyes but only 1 Endbringer and 1 Urborg. Seemed to work fine, I just was underwhelmed by Endbringer in general.

I agree on Jitte too but those are very specific matchups. There's lots of other matchups where I find it's really lackluster and is immediately boarded out... I'll playtest different combinations but likely going to move at least 1 of them to the board. Maybe the 1:1 split is where I personally want to be, so I'll give that a try this weekend.

Noloam_
05-19-2016, 09:54 AM
Ive been running the 4x eyes but only 1 Endbringer and 1 Urborg. Seemed to work fine, I just was underwhelmed by Endbringer in general.

I agree on Jitte too but those are very specific matchups. There's lots of other matchups where I find it's really lackluster and is immediately boarded out... I'll playtest different combinations but likely going to move at least 1 of them to the board. Maybe the 1:1 split is where I personally want to be, so I'll give that a try this weekend.

what will you bring in instead?


gratz on your run barook! i went 4-1. again esper stoneblade :(. i was very happy when i drew my 1 off tower of magistrate against 1 batterskull + 10 mana. then he played needle on the tower :cry:
could you tell me how i can join the legacy challenges btw?

RhoxWarMonk
05-19-2016, 10:02 AM
what will you bring in instead?



From the main you mean? Likely more Warping Wail, I've been seriously impressed with that card. Kills Cliques, Deathrites, Dark Confidents, Strix(es), Metalworkers, unflipped Delvers and the sorcery option is very strong as well against Natural Order, Terminus and so forth.

Been very surprised by how much I've been enjoying that card and want to squeeze a couple more into the main deck to start playtesting.

Noloam_
05-19-2016, 10:13 AM
all those creatures can also be killed by jitte. trading 1 for 1 with a clique is no vallue. killing pyromancers and confi with jitte is big big vallue. you can also prevent a batterskull from comming in to play. if you can kill the mystic on time with the jitte.

RhoxWarMonk
05-19-2016, 10:34 AM
all those creatures can also be killed by jitte. trading 1 for 1 with a clique is no vallue. killing pyromancers and confi with jitte is big big vallue. you can also prevent a batterskull from comming in to play. if you can kill the mystic on time with the jitte.

I disagree that there's no value in killing a clique on stack with a warping wail. Yes, she still gets to trigger but removing a 3/1 flyer against the legends miracles deck is certainly viable in my opinion (at least, it has seemed to have worked out very well in my playtesting).

You're 100% right that Jitte kills all those things too but you need hits and counters to tick Jitte up. A lot of time, I'm have issues getting hits in with the creature that Jitte is equipped to, which is why I'm finding it a little too slow. I'm certainly not saying Jitte is a bad card (certainly not), however, I'm finding I'd rather slap down something like a reality smasher and attack majority of the time than I would play a jitte, equip it and then attack with something much smaller in order to get my counters up. I guess it's a trade off and perhaps I just need more practice and playtesting but so far, it's been a little underwhelming in my experience. Warping Wail has been fantastic for me and also, Jitte can't do anything against Natural Order or Terminus, two cards that scare me. Warping Wail is also better against combo -- takes care of Show and Tell, Infernal Tutors and Reanimates.

xArabOfficerx
05-19-2016, 11:39 AM
i also had my doubts about the bomb. untill miracles started to play a big hate package moon/bridge/moat/back2basics

well the endbringer thing is more of a local thing, that we agreed upon. Endbringer is slow. but it is a card that can steal games. And get you back from unwinnable possitions. it shoots dow strix all day. i had 2 endbringers in play against shardless lately, that was just fireworks. Im not saying it is the perfect list. perhaps it should be 4 reshaper and 1 endbringer. But im not really sold on the reshaper dude. Endbringer is also really fun to play. It prevents the eldrazi deck from becoming a boring deck in the long run :P

im now testing 2 city of traitors in the list. after my talkt with h0cusp0cus, i wanted to test 1 tower of the magistrate. against stoneforge and strix.

I'm very curious about this as well! City is great aggro, but can be annoying to use sometimes. I'm curious how Magistrate will be plus it is a lot cheaper option which could help with some of the bad match-ups. Also, wouldn't you want Karakas possibly MB then? I was thinking of dropping 1 City for 1 Karakas.

Noloam_
05-19-2016, 12:10 PM
I disagree that there's no value in killing a clique on stack with a warping wail. Yes, she still gets to trigger but removing a 3/1 flyer against the legends miracles deck is certainly viable in my opinion (at least, it has seemed to have worked out very well in my playtesting).

You're 100% right that Jitte kills all those things too but you need hits and counters to tick Jitte up. A lot of time, I'm have issues getting hits in with the creature that Jitte is equipped to, which is why I'm finding it a little too slow. I'm certainly not saying Jitte is a bad card (certainly not), however, I'm finding I'd rather slap down something like a reality smasher and attack majority of the time than I would play a jitte, equip it and then attack with something much smaller in order to get my counters up. I guess it's a trade off and perhaps I just need more practice and playtesting but so far, it's been a little underwhelming in my experience. Warping Wail has been fantastic for me and also, Jitte can't do anything against Natural Order or Terminus, two cards that scare me. Warping Wail is also better against combo -- takes care of Show and Tell, Infernal Tutors and Reanimates.

well exiling a clique while he gets to mess with your hand, is more vallue for him than for you.

hehehe yes ofcourse you rather have a smasher. i whould play 10 smashers if it was possible. but i am equiping my factories all day with jitte. it is a good trade against blockers most of the time. i also like jitte after a boardcleaner. yes in the miracle match wail is hands down the better card. against sneaky show i am mostly building up my boardstate, i have no time to keep up the mana for wail most of the time. but i still keep them in in the match, just in case ^^

maraxusofkelds
05-19-2016, 01:31 PM
@NoLoam
@Barook

Why don't you create a sideboard guide for top5/top10 tier decks?
so that we can compare colorless strategy vs WG strategy

Not only a +2 sphere - 2reshaper...but a list explaining the reason...like "reshaper does nothing against miracles as they only remove, not kill...and sphere is nuts against all their spells"
[silly example...I know]

Cheers
the_goat

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30500-DTB-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=944846&viewfull=1#post944846

That is barook's sideboard list. A small part is outdated like karakas from sideboard. Anyway, how do you guys fight maverick or loam decks game 1? It feels like the general theory for these value based mid range graveyard decks is to overrun them, so in games 2 and 3 the sideboard we should be keeping our low mana threats like mimics in while bringing leyline of the void in general.

RhoxWarMonk
05-19-2016, 01:33 PM
well exiling a clique while he gets to mess with your hand, is more vallue for him than for you.

I completely agree but there's very little I can do about him cliquing my hand, even with a Jitte (though I agree with your point that getting a 2 for 1 on a Jitte is much better than 1 for 1 with the Warping Wail

Anyways was just my thoughts on it from my limited experiences :)



hehehe yes ofcourse you rather have a smasher. i whould play 10 smashers if it was possible. but i am equiping my factories all day with jitte. it is a good trade against blockers most of the time. i also like jitte after a boardcleaner. yes in the miracle match wail is hands down the better card. against sneaky show i am mostly building up my boardstate, i have no time to keep up the mana for wail most of the time. but i still keep them in in the match, just in case ^^

In regards to equipping factories, you're ok losing a land in that case? Hmmm... now you have me re-thinking my strategies and perhaps I've been doing it wrong. I don't usually make that trade, so my Jitte sits on the board with less than optimal counters on it. Maybe I'll try your advice and play them more aggressively (thank you!)

xArabOfficerx
05-19-2016, 02:03 PM
I completely agree but there's very little I can do about him cliquing my hand, even with a Jitte (though I agree with your point that getting a 2 for 1 on a Jitte is much better than 1 for 1 with the Warping Wail

Anyways was just my thoughts on it from my limited experiences :)



In regards to equipping factories, you're ok losing a land in that case? Hmmm... now you have me re-thinking my strategies and perhaps I've been doing it wrong. I don't usually make that trade, so my Jitte sits on the board with less than optimal counters on it. Maybe I'll try your advice and play them more aggressively (thank you!)

How have you been using your factories? The whole point of them being there is to apply constant pressure along with building a board. Personally Factory and Endless One are Prime targets for Jitte.

Barook
05-19-2016, 02:33 PM
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30500-DTB-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=944846&viewfull=1#post944846

That is barook's sideboard list. A small part is outdated like karakas from sideboard. Anyway, how do you guys fight maverick or loam decks game 1? It feels like the general theory for these value based mid range graveyard decks is to overrun them, so in games 2 and 3 the sideboard we should be keeping our low mana threats like mimics in while bringing leyline of the void in general.
Depends on the deck. If they can get the Wastelock going on early, you're toast. Other than that, hopefully overrunning them before they lock you out. KotR can be handled with Displacer to a certain degree, but it's no guarantee to win (see: my lost quarterfinals in the latest Legacy Challenge)

Btw, the WR Eldrazi list that I recently lost to also placed 5-0:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/418572#online

I'd like to point out that if you replace the Battlefield Forges with Corrupted Crossroads, you could also run World Breaker in the SB with no problem.

Cire
05-19-2016, 02:42 PM
I'd like to point out that if you replace the Battlefield Forges with Corrupted Crossroads, you could also run World Breaker in the SB with no problem.

I actually really like that idea and will be trying the same list but World Breakers replacing the Oblivion Sowers in the board. (And I guess, +1 Corrupted Crossroads, -1 Plateau. I will also miss factories :frown:)

RhoxWarMonk
05-19-2016, 02:53 PM
How have you been using your factories? The whole point of them being there is to apply constant pressure along with building a board. Personally Factory and Endless One are Prime targets for Jitte.

Oh I use my Factories aggressively but equipping a Jitte on them every turn is 3 mana every turn. Thats what i meant, in that i dont use them agressively with jitte. Usually I'm trying to keep board presence by adding additional threats. Most of the time I simply don't have an extra 3 mana available to equip it OR I have to decide if equipping a Jitte and attacking with a worker is a better play than adding an endless one to the board (for example).

Barook - have you tried the red splash with obliterator yet from the list you posted? Was curious how they worked, as on paper, obliterator feels like a strong play. Fully agree on your crossroads change as well (I'd rather 4x crossroads over 2 plateau as well personally).

Noloam_
05-19-2016, 03:26 PM
sweet list with the red splash. but i really dislike petals in eldrazi decks (i know its a must in 2 collors). i guess i will be a collorless dude forever :(. perhaps im trying mono red in the future, to keep my apes ^^


these new lists make me want to try out new builds. but as riehu stated before, you will most of the time come back to collorless, due to its consistency

Barook
05-19-2016, 03:47 PM
Barook - have you tried the red splash with obliterator yet from the list you posted? Was curious how they worked, as on paper, obliterator feels like a strong play. Fully agree on your crossroads change as well (I'd rather 4x crossroads over 2 plateau as well personally).
Not really - when should I have done that? :really:

With some modifications, I do like the idea behind the deck. Obligator makes it a even more aggressive breed than my list. I can see Obligator being better than Matter Reshaper, although I don't know if it's worth losing the resilience, especially the Factories. Haste makes it another Planeswalker killer out of nowhere (filling a similiar spot to Factory, except for the lack of sweeper resilience) and it should be pointed out that it enables even more broken starts with Eye, since you have 8 colored creatures that can be played with Lotus Petal (which are 4 copies in the deck). E.g. Eye + 2x Petal + 2x Obligator is 6 hasty power on T1. Being playable under Blood Moon is just an added bonus.

3 power haste + the ability to steal a blocker/fatty can really screw with combat math and 8 hasty, high power creatures is nothing to sneeze at. It's a shame Temple's double mana can't be used for the "kicker" cost.

While I can't test in the next few days due to being away from my apartment (= shitty internet), I'd probably run this list as a starting point. If somebody wants to test it, let us know the results. I'm very interested:

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Corrupted Crossroads
1 Battlefield Forge

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

Sideboard:
2 Karakas
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Dismember (flex slot, could be something else, see below)
1 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of the Void
3 All Is Dust
2 World Breaker

Maybe Dismember isn't needed anymore with Obligator as additional "removal" and could be Jitte/Spatial Contortion/something else.

My dislike for Endbringer should be well-known by now, so I moved the 4th Displacer to the main. Casting it should be no issue with that white count.

Not sure if the 3rd City is really necessary. Maybe there's a way to squeeze in some Factories, but I don't think the amount of colored mana should be messed with, given the importance of the colored drops. But that's all just theorycraft.

RhoxWarMonk
05-19-2016, 04:39 PM
Not really - when should I have done that? :really:

With some modifications, I do like the idea behind the deck. Obligator makes it a even more aggressive breed than my list. I can see Obligator being better than Matter Reshaper, although I don't know if it's worth losing the resilience, especially the Factories. Haste makes it another Planeswalker killer out of nowhere (filling a similiar spot to Factory, except for the lack of sweeper resilience) and it should be pointed out that it enables even more broken starts with Eye, since you have 8 colored creatures that can be played with Lotus Petal (which are 4 copies in the deck). E.g. Eye + 2x Petal + 2x Obligator is 6 hasty power on T1. Being playable under Blood Moon is just an added bonus.

3 power haste + the ability to steal a blocker/fatty can really screw with combat math and 8 hasty, high power creatures is nothing to sneeze at. It's a shame Temple's double mana can't be used for the "kicker" cost.

While I can't test in the next few days due to being away from my apartment (= shitty internet), I'd probably run this list as a starting point. If somebody wants to test it, let us know the results. I'm very interested:

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Corrupted Crossroads
1 Battlefield Forge

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

Sideboard:
2 Karakas
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Dismember (flex slot, could be something else, see below)
1 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of the Void
3 All Is Dust
2 World Breaker

Maybe Dismember isn't needed anymore with Obligator as additional "removal" and could be Jitte/Spatial Contortion/something else.

My dislike for Endbringer should be well-known by now, so I moved the 4th Displacer to the main. Casting it should be no issue with that white count.

Not sure if the 3rd City is really necessary. Maybe there's a way to squeeze in some Factories, but I don't think the amount of colored mana should be messed with, given the importance of the colored drops. But that's all just theorycraft.

I should have some time this weekend and I have almost every card in that list (I think I only have 3 Obliterator but Im sure I can grab one from the local shop tomorrow), so I'll sleeve it up and playtest it over the next couple of days.

It looks pretty interesting, I really like your inclusion of the 2x World Breaker in the side over the Sowers. With the crossroads, should be no problem at all to cast them.

4 petals is gonna be awful awkward with any tax effects in play though. <3 SSG!

Cire
05-19-2016, 05:01 PM
4 petals is gonna be awful awkward with any tax effects in play though. <3 SSG!

Been thinking. . . I don't see why you have to play petals in that list. You only need green for WB in the SB. With 4 Cross Roads and 4 Cavern of Souls, thats 8 sources of Green. By the time you reach WB mana - that's around turn 3-4. You should have hit a green source by then. You're running the petals due to worry about Wasteland. But if they're playing wasteland, they would waste a 2 mana source if they see you reaching WB mana. So if they're running wasteland - to cast WB while fighting through that you'll be casting it around turn 5-6 - so . . . I don't know you'll need at around 10 green sources. . .

What i'm getting at is 2 Lotus Petals and 2 SSG should still be fine in that list.

RhoxWarMonk
05-19-2016, 05:21 PM
Been thinking. . . I don't see why you have to play petals in that list. You only need green for WB in the SB. With 4 Cross Roads and 4 Cavern of Souls, thats 8 sources of Green. By the time you reach WB mana - that's around turn 3-4. You should have hit a green source by then. You're running the petals due to worry about Wasteland. But if they're playing wasteland, they would waste a 2 mana source if they see you reaching WB mana. So if they're running wasteland - to cast WB while fighting through that you'll be casting it around turn 5-6 - so . . . I don't know you'll need at around 10 green sources. . .

What i'm getting at is 2 Lotus Petals and 2 SSG should still be fine in that list.

Ideally, you want to have 13 white sources if you were to play the displacer on turn 2. Perhaps you don't want it that early though, I'm not sure. The obliterator (with SSG) would give you a total of 13 red sources, which is perfectly fine for T2 according to ChannelFireballs chart located here: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/

Using only 2 petals and 9 white source land, you only have 11 but again, maybe that's ok. It's certainly enough for World Breakers, so you're absolutely right on that. I wonder if you couldn't squeeze a Karakas or two into the main to get an extra white source (not to mention, very solid utility).

Barook
05-19-2016, 05:44 PM
4 petals is gonna be awful awkward with any tax effects in play though. <3 SSG!
Tax effects are normally run only in the board, or if the opponent has Thalia. It's only a minor issue.


Been thinking. . . I don't see why you have to play petals in that list. You only need green for WB in the SB. With 4 Cross Roads and 4 Cavern of Souls, thats 8 sources of Green. By the time you reach WB mana - that's around turn 3-4. You should have hit a green source by then. You're running the petals due to worry about Wasteland. But if they're playing wasteland, they would waste a 2 mana source if they see you reaching WB mana. So if they're running wasteland - to cast WB while fighting through that you'll be casting it around turn 5-6 - so . . . I don't know you'll need at around 10 green sources. . .

What i'm getting at is 2 Lotus Petals and 2 SSG should still be fine in that list.
You're forgetting about Displacer mana. Of course SSG is superior as a mana source, but it can't provide dual/tripple colors for fixing.


Ideally, you want to have 13 white sources if you were to play the displacer on turn 2. Perhaps you don't want it that early though, I'm not sure. The obliterator (with SSG) would give you a total of 13 red sources, which is perfectly fine for T2 according to ChannelFireballs chart located here: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/

Using only 2 petals and 9 white source land, you only have 11 but again, maybe that's ok. It's certainly enough for World Breakers, so you're absolutely right on that. I wonder if you couldn't squeeze a Karakas or two into the main to get an extra white source (not to mention, very solid utility).
As I said before, the third City could be an utility land slot. That's personal preference, but I'm not a fan of drawing multiple cities, especially as only mana sources early game. Two copies are good number imho. If you move a Karakas to the MD, you free up an additional SB slot. Even with 4x Obligator and 4x Displacer, I would have at least two copies of Karakas in the 75, just to be sure.

Noloam_
05-20-2016, 05:54 AM
i am currently 3-0 with a similair list. the deck seems o-k.


4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Corrupted Crossroads
2 mishras factory
1 karakas


4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

Sideboard:
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of the Void
2 All Is Dust
2 World Breaker
2 spatial contortion

Barook
05-20-2016, 05:59 AM
@ Noloam_: How's the mana so far, considering that you cut two colored sources?

I'm not a fan completely cutting Karakas from the 75. Or an All is Dust number below 3. :tongue:

What were your matches so far? And how did the list feel?

Noloam_
05-20-2016, 06:03 AM
@ Noloam_: How's the mana so far, considering that you cut two colored sources?

I'm not a fan completely cutting Karakas from the 75. Or an All is Dust number below 3. :tongue:

What were your matches so far? And how did the list feel?


oops i made a typo. i am playing 1 karakas main. i have never had problems with casting stuff so far.

i really dislike tapping the Crossroads and a ancient tomb to play a displacer (3 damage ;/)

hehehe yes the 2 or 3 all is dust is a personal preference i guess ^^


i playd against grixis delver, ant and some sort of UW fish deck.


this build seems very week against miracles game one. no thorns and de red dude, is not the spot you want te be in to

Barook
05-20-2016, 06:20 AM
oops i made a typo. i am playing 1 karakas main. i have never had problems with casting stuff so far.

i really dislike tapping the Crossroads and a ancient tomb to play a displacer (3 damage ;/)

hehehe yes the 2 or 3 all is dust is a personal preference i guess ^^


i playd against grixis delver, ant and some sort of UW fish deck


this build seems very week against miracles game one. no thorns and de red dude, is not the spot you want te be in to
Based on what? I can see the loss of Factories hurting a bit, but my Wg build still crushes Miracles pre-board - even without Thorn.

Noloam_
05-20-2016, 06:23 AM
Based on what? I can see the loss of Factories hurting a bit, but my Wg build still crushes Miracles pre-board - even without Thorn.



yes i got to admit that the worldbreaker seems good. but when i walk into a turn 3 back to basics or bloodmoon, i will cry for my rachet bombs.

well the 3/1 haste dude just has no good targets. and thorn is just insane vs miracles pre- and postboard.


ended 4-1 now, won 2-0 from miracles. he did not appreciate the thorns postboard

lost 0-2 to storm. playing this deck against storm really felt silly. im back to my collorless build for sure ^^

kentheide
05-20-2016, 07:51 AM
Question for those of you that have played this deck against different archetypes;

When you lose (if you even lose) what decks and to what specific cards are you having issues?

Eldariel
05-20-2016, 08:27 AM
The primary ways I see Eldrazi lose are:
- Big dudes. Stuff like Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Gurmag Angler, et cetera. match up rather well against the ground assault and once a deck heavy on such creatures gets past the initial manahump, they can generally produce enough value to take it home. Dismember helps a lot against such stuff of course.
- Nonbasic hate/mana disruption. Be it Price of Progress, Blood Moon, Back to Basics or more commonly just Wasteland backed up by threats + Daze, Vial or Loam, the manabase is certainly an achilles' heel that can occasionally be exploited.
- Removal. Chalice makes it easier by turning off StP but some decks pack sizable amounts of removal not subject to Chalice, and Chalice isn't always in play anyways. Decks like Shardless can grind on this front rather well, and when Miracles wins it's often on the back of Terminuses.

Occasionally, a combo-deck will outrace you too and there's rather little you can do about it; you already have TKS, Chalice and potentially Thorn/other Stax-pieces so you're close to as good in those match-ups as it gets and you should win the majority of the time. Sometimes they have the nuts though. Elves is notable in that they fold really hard to Chalice, but they have the means to gum up the board and if they can get rid of it, they can be really hard to contain unless you have something like a Jitte.

Cire
05-20-2016, 09:29 AM
Ideally, you want to have 13 white sources if you were to play the displacer on turn 2..



You're forgetting about Displacer mana. Of course SSG is superior as a mana source, but it can't provide dual/tripple colors for fixing.

So the requirements are?
13 White
13 Red
10 Green

So:
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Corrupted Crossroads
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Battlefield Forge
2 Karakas
2 Lotus Petal
2 Simian Spirit Guide

Doesn't that work?

(obviously lack of factories sucks - if you want to run 2 factories, I guess you can still run 1 SSG. [-1 COT, -1 SSG, +1 Lotus Petal, -1 Battlefield Forge, +2 Factories]).

Barook
05-20-2016, 11:47 AM
lost 0-2 to storm. playing this deck against storm really felt silly. im back to my collorless build for sure ^^
How did you manage lose against Storm, despite running 4 Thorns and Leylines post-board? :eyebrow:

Noloam_
05-20-2016, 11:49 AM
How did you manage lose against Storm, despite running 4 Thorns and Leylines post-board? :eyebrow:

because displacers and obligators are not gonna cut it game 1. game 2 he was just lucky :(

Barook
05-20-2016, 12:00 PM
because displacers and obligators are not gonna cut it game 1. game 2 he was just lucky :(
Matter Reshaper in the colorless build isn't any better in that regard. At least Obligator has haste.

I still don't understand why you fear Storm so much. It feels like you overestimate what they're capable of because you have years of Storm experience while I don't give a shit and it just works out.

Noloam_
05-20-2016, 01:50 PM
Matter Reshaper in the colorless build isn't any better in that regard. At least Obligator has haste.

I still don't understand why you fear Storm so much. It feels like you overestimate what they're capable of because you have years of Storm experience while I don't give a shit and it just works out.

thorn main is better in that regard. it is gg from the moment that hits the board.

well one of the best stormplayer of europe is always playing it in my local store. so this has some inpact on my thinking in paper game for sure. i guess you just have been lucky till today. if you only play chalice or TKS main. there is a great chance you have none in your opener. if you dont know where you are playing against, you keep and get wrecked.


i also became quite unsatisfied by a game against burning reanimator today. i will mulligan to leyline in the future.

i kept on the play: 3 eldrazi temple, TKS, endbringer, thorn, smasher...... and the labresults were that i got owned.

Barook
05-20-2016, 04:16 PM
thorn main is better in that regard. it is gg from the moment that hits the board.

well one of the best stormplayer of europe is always playing it in my local store. so this has some inpact on my thinking in paper game for sure. i guess you just have been lucky till today. if you only play chalice or TKS main. there is a great chance you have none in your opener. if you dont know where you are playing against, you keep and get wrecked.


i also became quite unsatisfied by a game against burning reanimator today. i will mulligan to leyline in the future.

i kept on the play: 3 eldrazi temple, TKS, endbringer, thorn, smasher...... and the labresult were that i got owned.
Burning Reanimator is "Leyline or bust" - everything else is doomed to fail because they WILL reanimate something T1 to wreck you.

Noloam_
05-21-2016, 05:42 AM
Burning Reanimator is "Leyline or bust" - everything else is doomed to fail because they WILL reanimate something T1 to wreck you.

thanks for confirming that. i believe i almost kept the best non-leyline hand. so we will stick with the hate-only plan


i got a question concerning the legacy challange. how do you join these and when are they held?

Dark Ritual
05-21-2016, 07:53 AM
If you have 4 thorn 4 TKS maindeck there's an 80% chance you have at least one in the opener if not more. Though one TKS isn't going to stop storm unless you get lucky. Storm can beat thorn in theory with a big pile of ritual effects, but it's unlikely if you have a significant clock to back it up. If you want to beat storm, you can easily do so with this archetype out of the sideboard with the amount of hateful permanents you can throw down from leylines to sphere's to thorns to 3spheres. Warping wail is insane against them too as they are dependant on key sorceries resolving to win the game/straight counterspell for 1C usually.

metronome2charisma
05-21-2016, 08:45 AM
Finished 2-1-1 last night ,bringing my overall record to 55-26-3 with the white version. I tested an obligator last night in the slot of one of my displacers, it was ok. ( i stole an ulamog and that was cool.) I had some interesting things occur last night while playing and wanted to share

RD1 U/R delver he wins the roll,and takes game 1 with swifspear into the 1/3 flying prowess dude into p.o.p. Game 2 and three i had chalice .thorn draws (1-0)
RD 2 MUD Dont remember the details other that it was three games and ensnaring bridge and Ugin
won him both games.. very hard to beat decks that go bigger ,faster. ( 1-1)
RD3 esper stone blade HE wins the roll and play a tnn into tnn into batter skull it was over. Game 2 i smash him with turn 2 tks into run 3 tks into smasher. Game three was very drawn out. I all is dust his board of jace, stone forge and batter skull ,leaving me with just one mimc in play and him at 24 ..I play an end bringer and a 3/3 endless on just to try to get him dead asap. he supreme verdicts ,I have another end bringer. We go to turns. One more turn i would have had him ...LLLLLAAAAMMMMEE. (1-1-1)
RD4 12post . They win the roll and an early primetime followed by a propaganda into an early ulamog gets there . This is the game i stole an ulamog with obligator ...still doesn't get there.. Game 2 went mimic,mimic, endless one for 2 , TKS turn 2 ,Endbringer turn 3. This last game is the interesting one . i get off to a good start but he plays 3 propaganda and a tabernacle..but not a lot of post lands .. Essentially because of the propagandas i can't attack and pay for my creatures to stay alive so i wait...eventually drawing into a end bringer which i start pinging him with and then i find a world breaker that i don't pay the tabernacle tax for and i keep looping the world breaker every other turn killing his locust lands that he slowly starting to assemble ( he has 4 cards in hand ) . i eventually get him down to 5 at which point i pay for tabernacle and the 3 propagandas and end the game. (2-1-1)

I could see obligator being good. i could also see it being very bad.colored eldrazi slow the deck down a lot . As far as the storm matchup goes i have heard people say that storm is hard (local players)but i have lost a grand total of 1 GAME to storm and am current 8-0 in matches. i honestly don't understand how people lose this matchup. and i'm only on 4 chalice 3 warping wail with 2 thorn and 4 leyline in the board.The plan is to play a lock piece and beat them down.. is super simple..

RhoxWarMonk
05-21-2016, 10:38 AM
Finished 2-1-1 last night ,bringing my overall record to 55-26-3 with the white version. I tested an obligator last night in the slot of one of my displacers, it was ok. ( i stole an ulamog and that was cool.) I had some interesting things occur last night while playing and wanted to share

RD1 U/R delver he wins the roll,and takes game 1 with swifspear into the 1/3 flying prowess dude into p.o.p. Game 2 and three i had chalice .thorn draws (1-0)
RD 2 MUD Dont remember the details other that it was three games and ensnaring bridge and Ugin
won him both games.. very hard to beat decks that go bigger ,faster. ( 1-1)
RD3 Jesper stone blade HE wins the roll and play a tnn into tnn into batter skull it was overs, game 2 i smash hi with turn 2 tks into run 3 tks into smasher. Game three was very drawn out i all is dust his board or jace, stone forge and batter skull ,leaving me with just one mimc in play and him at 24 ..I play an end bringer and a 3/3 endless on just to try to get him dead asap. he supreme verdicts ,I have another end bringer. We go to turns. One more turn i would have had him ...LLLLLAAAAMMMMEE. (1-1-1)
RD4 12post . They win the roll and an early primetime followed by a propaganda into an early ulamog gets there . This is the game i stole an ulamog with obligator ...still doesn't get there.. Game 2 went mimic,mimic, endless one for 2 , TKS turn 2 ,Endbringer turn 3. This last game is the interesting one . i get off to a good start but he plays 3 propaganda and a tabernacle..but not a lot of post lands .. Essentially because of the propagandas i can't attack and pay for my creatures to stay alive so i wait...eventually drawing into a end bringer which i start pinging him with and then i find a world breaker that i don't pay the tabernacle tax for and i keep looping the world breaker every other turn killing his locust lands that he slowly starting to assemble ( he has 4 cards in hand ) . i eventually get him down to 5 at which point i pay for tabernacle and the 3 propagandas and end the game. (2-1-1)

I could see obligator being good. i could also see it being very bad.colored eldrazi slow the deck down a lot . As far as the storm matchup goes i have heard people say that storm is hard (local players)but i have lost a grand total of 1 GAME to storm and am current 8-0 in matches. i honestly don't understand how people lose this matchup. and i'm only on 4 chalice 3 warping wail with 2 thorn and 4 leyline in the board.The plan is to play a lock piece and beat them down.. is super simple..

I find Storm incredibly easy as well. I remember one match, it was game one and I didn't really know what he was on but I was pretty sure it was Storm since I know it's one of the 2 decks he plays regularly. I took a chance and played Chalice for 0, followed by Chalice for 1 and he scooped instantly lol. Game two, I played first turn thorns and got there off that alone. One lock piece generally gets there but in an ideal world you'd want a second due to abrupt decay out of the board in games 2 and 3. Sometimes you are just too fast for it to matter though... So far I'm 4-0 against Storm in matches, losing the odd game to their nuts draw and I'm also 2-0 against Sneak and Show. Surprisingly have not faced any reanimator at all, but I'm sure the leylines coming in likely gets the job done majority of the time.

I tried out the Obligator too and found him pretty underwhelming. Right now I'm bouncing back and forth from the colorless build to Barook's list and currently playing the latter, as Displacer is such a beast in so many unwinnable matchups. It gives me a fighting chance against Lands, for example, where as with the colorless version I just get stomped. Both are great against Miracles and the white splash has been better for me against Shardless. These are common decks in my area, though I'm still surprisingly having a lot of trouble against burn. PoP is a freaking BEATING and I need my lands in play to cast my creatures. Generally I don't play more than 3 against burn and I still get PoPed for 6, then generally followed up with a fireblast to the face to get there. Chalice for 1 does help a lot obviously (and maybe I should be going for Chalice for 2, especially post SB) but they also bring in StS, which is huge if they resolve it.

maraxusofkelds
05-21-2016, 11:48 AM
Burn is a hard matchup, but my general experience beating it has either been t1 lock piece into t2 thought knot pulling PoP or fireblast, or landing chalice for 2 and stabilizing. Chalice for 1 is great if u are on the play. In games 2 and 3 u will want chalice more on 2 just for smash to smithereens in addition to the usual targets.