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Holly
03-15-2016, 02:34 PM
This is a work in progress and not yet finished but a good start for everyone interested in Eldrazi's in Legacy. For work reasons I wont be able to have any progress until the 23rd of march, sorry for the delay.

Introduction
Eldrazi Stompy also known as Eldrazis Shops is the newest deck in the Legacy and Modern pool. It plays similar to other stompy Decks like “Dragon Stompy” but makes use of the new Eldrazi creatures from Oath of the Gatewatch which had a lot of impact for the following reasons:
- The most important ones are completely colorless, thus making the „Sol-Lands“ (Ancient Tomb & City of Traitors) stronger as those now could cast the lock-pieces and the threats without additional manafixing needed.
- They’re pretty good on the cost/power ratio while having additional benefits.
- Compared to the beaters MUD plays (f.e. Wurmcoil Engine) they can make use of 2 further „Sol-Lands“ in Eye of Ugin & Eldrazi Temple thus having an overall more stable manabase which is a little bit more difficult to disrupt and just more consistent while lessening the need of other acceleration pieces thus lessening the chance of a hand consisting of all mana and no pressure.

Since the deck is still new there isn’t one list to play, everything apart from a few card choices is still in flux and depends on your general strategy and expected matchups.
You can play a straight colorless version or splash different colors which opens up new maindeck and even more important sideboard choices, though as usual at the cost of a weaker manabase.
In general a „Stompy“ deck trys to play a lock piece, followed by a threat which is now protected/cant be answered and kill the opponent with it.
There are 2 camps of Eldrazi players, one who favor a more aggressive approach, trying to keep the curve as low as possible and attack the opponent before he has any chance to recover from the first dropped lock piece.
The other camp favors a higher end manacurve to play the most powerful Eldrazis, making use of the lock pieces to get in the actual mid/lategame and dominate the board.
Those 2 variants share a lot of cards in common, but there are several cards one list would play while the other does not. In each cards description I’m going to add which variant profits more from the inclusion of each card.


Card choices
24-26 Lands
The correct land count hasn’t been figured out yet and always does depend on the rest of your list and also on the use of other acceleration.

Ancient Tomb
The best land in the deck and the oldest „Solland“, yes sometimes the damage will kill you but those 2 colorless mana enable you to play your (for Legacy) high costed creatures as well as dropping your important lock pieces on turn 1. Play 4.

City of Traitors
The disadvantage of the City is clear but the risk is well worth it to give you a higher chance to drop your lock pieces t1, followed by a huge threat turn 2.
Depending on your actual decklist you might want to play fewer or more of those as it matters a lot whether you want them mostly to drop Chalice/Thorn on turn 1 (which can be helped out in other ways) or need them to cast non-Eldrazi threats.
Most people try a balanced approach and play 3 Cities, depending on your decklist you can argue for 2 or 4.

Eye of Ugin
Its a legendary which sucks. It doesn’t add mana for your non-Eldrazi spells which sucks. The ability needs you to have 7 mana which rarely happens.
But it makes some of your most broken starts possible as it „taps“ for 2 for all your Eldrazi creatures without hurting you.
If you can actually play 2 or more creatures in a turn it effectily makes 4 or 6 mana !
When playing a more aggressive approach of Eldrazi-Stompy you want to max out on those Eyes, as the disadvantage of it being legendary wont come up as often in shorter games. If you’re playing a lot of non-Eldrazi cards you might want to settle on 2.

Eldrazi Temple
Similar to Eye it allows you to drop your Eldrazi threats way faster than usual though is restricted to a maximum of 2 mana per turn unlike Eye. On the other hand it doesn’t suck in multiples and can cast your non Eldrazi cards aswell. The first Eye will be better than the first Temple more often than not but you rather draw more Temples than Eye’s.
Depending on your decklist you probably want to play a mix of 4-8 copies of Temple/Eye. Aggressive versions favoring more copies of both for the maximum chance of broken starts.

Cavern of Souls
As most or all creatures in the deck share the „Eldrazi“ type Cavern of Souls ability to make your threats uncounterable is a great way to get a edge in control-matchups as you reduce their outs to just their removal.
Even when you’re playing non Eldrazi creatures and name them with cavern it wont hinder your manabase as its still produces colorless for your Eldrazis!
But more than that the Caverns allow you to fix your mana in case you’re splashing one or more colors. But be careful when splashing non-Eldrazi creatures as its still gonna be the most common announced creature type.
Note: If you want to make use of the „uncounterable clause“ the mana added can’t be the colorless one you need to spent for casting f.e. Thought-Knot Seer.

Crystal Vein
Some people like it better than City of Traitors as you don’t have to sacrifice it when playing the next land, other hate it as its gonna be even more awkward to play it turn 1 into Chalice/Thorn than City is gonna be.
Most use them when they want more ways of having 2 mana on turn 1 without overloading on City of Traitors (thus reducing the chance of drawing multiples) and without playing other acceleration.

Wasteland
Depending wether you have room for more colorless-only lands or not Wasteland is a great choice. While the deck is mana hungry and you won’t always use it to hinder your opponent it helps a lot against annoying lands of your opponents (Tabernacle, Maze of Ith, Rishadan Port, Thespian Stage).
Aggressive colorless variants could want the full 4 as they have the room for it, other variants most likely still want to play some number of them to battle the mentioned problem-lands. In any case the use of it should be carefully considered, as the deck is very mana hungry and losing a land is a huge cost. Take some seconds to think whether its worth it or not before destroying your opponents land.

Ghostquarter
Poor mans Wasteland but good enough for those who want the extra land destruction. It’s possible you’ll find them in a super-fast list as a 2 of. A decent choice if you expect a lond of land or mirror matchups.
Another point worth mentioning is that it can act as a fetchland if you're killing your own land. This might make a splash a tad more feasable though more important it allows you to run 4 Ghostquarter and 4 Waste and have virtually 8 copies against Bloodmoon. Then again you have to destroy your land preemptive or have Ghostquarter untapped for that to work.

Rishadan Port
Apart from niche situations its going to be worse than Wasteland. Nonetheless its an alternative to Ghost Quarter (I doubt a list can make slots for all 3 of those). I haven’t tasted it personally because I’m doubtful you’ll want to tap 2 lands (3 mana at times!) to stop your opponent from using 1 mana. Does have the advantage of working better against basics compared to Ghost Quarter.

Mishra’s Factory
Most likely played in the more aggressive variant, the deck builder probably has to chose some mix of those and Wasteland depending on the valuation. Definitely do getbetter when you’re playing equipment.
Inkmoth Nexus is an alternative for the ability to fly over with equipment during board stalls, but therefore is weaker on its own.

Corrupted Crossroads
It’s here to fix your mana for Eldrazi-Creatures, between Cavern and it you could be looking at 8 sources of every color for each Eldrazi, its hard to find room for all those good lands but if you’re seriously thinking about playing 3 or even 4 colors of Eldrazi you should try to fit some of those in. If you’re playing the colorless variant or just splash for one color skip on those, there’re better alternatives.

Wastes
Allows you to play through Bloodmoon and From the Ashes. Helps a lot against Back to Basics. Otherwise a useless land. You can’t fetch for those which makes playing only 1 or 2 most likely a waste of effort. Most decks don’t want to afford to waste their land slots on Wastes, but if you expect the above cards you can/should try to make some room for those.

Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Another legendary land which doesn’t even accelerate you like Eye of Ugin does..doesnt it? It actually can make you 2 mana in combination with said Eye of Ugin (letting you tap the Eye for B), giving you another possibility of having 4 mana on turn 2 (note those 4 mana can’t cast Thought-Knot Seer).
Its also a great way to reduce damage from Ancient Tomb in the lategame when you only need them to tap for 1 mana and it fixes your mana in case you’re running a black splash. If you make use of all those abilities you should consider running 3 or 4 but otherwise don’t overload on it for the chance to make Eye of Ugin tap for mana, its still a good 1-2 of if you have the slot.

Karakas
Yet another legendary land. It helps you in different matchups (Reanimator, SneakShow and Lands most commonly) which without it are some of the more problematic matchups. If you’re splashing white it even fixes your mana and then there’s no reason to not play at least one copy.

Grove of the Burnwillows
If you're playing at least one of those colors this land will fix your colors while still providing colorless mana. The lifegain is not irrelevant but as you won't need much colored mana negligible. Also the obvious combo with Punishing Fire.

Horizon Canopy
Fixes your mana if you're splashing white and green and smooths out your land-heavy draws, an ability this deck otherwise lacks.
But be careful, for one it doesn't produce colorless mana which can be awkward at times and the lifeloss is an actual factor between Ancient Tomb and Dismember.

Painlands
Those are just here to fix your mana in case you splash some color and can’t use better lands for those colors.

Gemstone Cavern
For those of you feeling lucky, on the play it’s a worse Waste, on the draw its pretty much a Chrome Mox which you can pitch any card to. I haven’t any experience with it yet but I’m eager to try it as a 1-of.


Acceleration
Some shy away from acceleration for the card disadvantage they bring with them or for being to slow to actually matter. But if you want to maximize your chance of a turn 1 lock piece without mulligans and/or want to diminish the number of the worse sollands you play you might want to opt for the inclusion of some of those. People who use them found out 3 to be a good number between constistenly getting speed without ruining your deck, although it heavily depends on your goal (for example landing turn 1 a lockpiece or fix your mana) and landbase.

Mox Diamond
On the plus side its free, fixes your mana stays in the game and can give you even 3 mana on the first turn, all while getting rid of those extra copies of lands the lands you rather only draw once (legendary lands, City of Traitors). On the other hand its only better as an additional land while you’re still hitting your land drops, can lead to awkward starting hands and is card disadvantage. If your curve goes rather high or you try to splash multiple colors you should strongly think about adding some of those in your list. Colorless variants are better of with other options.

Simian Spirit Guide / Elvish Spirit Guide
One time acceleration for your turn 1 lock piece for card disadvantage. Mostly used in case you want to stay at 8-9 ways of having 2 mana on turn 1 without playing 4 City of Traitors. If you play Worldbreaker you should chose the Elf as it fixes your mana and can get you out of Bloodmoon. If you don’t chose the Ape as you can still cast it during a Bloodmoon (gets slightly better when playing equipment).

Lotus Petal
This is an alternative to the spirit guides. The advantage of the Lotus Petal is that it can actually fix your mana in any color, not just red or green (in any case, be careful with relying on those 1 time effects for your manafixing !). This can be specially interesting for lists trying to splash 2 or more colors for non-Eldrazi cards.
Therefore it has anti-synergy with your lock pieces though, mostly Thorn of Amethyst and Sphere of Resistance or Trinisphere. Sometimes, but less common, even with Chalice of the Void.
You’ll never be able to cast it as a 2/2 beater to carry equipment.
In theory it can also be a problem that it can get countered, but that’s not something you should actually worry about when building your deck.

Mindstone/Talismans
Both help you ramp, though the focus here is to ramp in your mid/lategame and not for your t1 lock piece. Lists which might be interested in playing those cards are top-heavy lists or lists playing some non-Eldrazi threats while maxing out on Temples. Note that those mana rocks also help you play around Bloodmoon. The Talismans will fix your mana for splashes, the Mindstone can be cashed in for a card if you don’t need the manafixing.


7+ Lock pieces
General conses is that you want to play at least 7 lock pieces to give you a decent chance of having access to at least one without mulliganing to oblivion.
As you want them to be playable on turn 1 many people feel they should cost 2 mana. While 3 mana can be done with Mox’es/Spirit Guide’s those will severely hamper your win % against decks where its boom or bust on turn 1 (f.e. fastcombo). Though feel free to add some of the more expansive ones as piece number 8-10. Despite being very important to the decks core, the more aggressive version doesn’t want to overload on those as drawing just lock pieces without threats is bad and will give opponents the chance to overcome them.

Chalice of the Void
This is your first and from now on your favorite lock piece. The whole decks wraps
around it and just its inclusion determines the rest of the deck enormously. It’s well worth it. A lot of decks simply fold to a turn 1 chalice on 1 and even later Chalices lock out a good portion of most decks. It’s the best thing you can do turn 1 by a whole lot.

Thorns of Amethyst
Most commonly this is the second lock piece as it hits most decks in Legacy.
It does stop some decks completely game 1, makes it very hard for others, is decent against yet another portion of the metagame and unfortunately there are also some matchups its weak against. Most people favor Thorns over the next mentioned Sphere as the latter does hinder you aswell.
If you expect lots of decks like Maverick, Elves, Death and Taxes and other creature centric decks you should skip on those Thorns and play something else.



Sphere of Resistance
Here is your other choice of 2 drop and while it hits pretty much every matchup
(apart from MUD and Affinity) it also severely hampers you, a trade-off most people do not find worth it. It is however a worthy consideration if you expect lots of creature-centric matchups (as a Thorns replacement), if you want even more disruption playable on turn 1 or as a sideboard choice.

Trinisphere
A mighty weapon, able to shut off your opponent completely allowing you to play
solitaire. Its still not a necessary maindeck choice as we can’t (or only rarely) have 3 mana on turn 1 and its dissynergy with Eye of Ugin. In the matchups where Thorn is weak Trinisphere is most likely as weak and thus most people have shied away from it, maybe making room in their sideboards. Some still swear on it though, but the (nearly) inability to pump it out turn 1 makes it much weaker than in a deck like “MUD” or “Dragon “Stompy.

Winterorb
Another 2 drop lock piece but bad enough in enough matchups (Combo decks) while also being annoying for yourself its most likely just a sideboard choice for some matchups. Then again the aggressive approach could combine its synergy with [card]Eye of Ugin to good effect.


Tangle wire
So far no successful deck included it, but some people are trying to combine this
magnificent piece with an aggressive strategy. I’d like to see it work out, if you’re playing it some strategy involving Eldrazi Spawns might work out for you.

Smokestack
While playing similar lock pieces Eldrazi Stompy/Shops is not a “Staxx” deck and you should stay away from including this in your list. Its way to slow for what we’re trying to do and apart from a combination with [card]Crucible of Worlds we can’t abuse it in any way.

Creatures
When lock pieces are your bread of the deck then those creatures are your favorite topping of choice, whether its peanut butter, nutella, cheese, bacon or even marmite. They’re your win conditions and can add another layer of disruption while smothering your opponent.

Thought-Knot-Seer
The card which had most attention before the set was released and for a good
reason. As a 4 mana 4/4 its decent sized and doesn’t die to the common non white
removal. Its colorless and as such compeltly castable of sol-lands. Its an Eldrazi thus giving you a maximum of 16 sol-lands for it and more to boot: It’s an awesome piece of disruption ! Yes they get a card back when this dies and sometimes they won’t have anything thus getting card advantage on a kill. But those occasions are far enough apart and do not undermine this creatures strength ! Play 4 end of discussion.

Reality Smasher
5 mana is a whole lot for nothing but a dump 5/5 beater in Legacy. But when that guy is castable on turn 3, has haste, trample and some sort of protection its well worth it. This guy is going to close out the games you’ve been locking before and he’s going to do that fast. You should have a good reason to not include 4 of those bad boy.

Eldrazi Mimic
Now we have the first creature which hugely determines the rest of your build. If you favor an aggressive strategy play 4 and be happy turning 2 of those sideways on turn 3 after playing a Reality Smasher[/carsd]. Even most “slower” decks want them as it’s the only Eldrazi 2-drop (apart from Endless one) and is free with an Eye of Ugin in play.
However it’s a weak stand alone card, even a 0 mana [cards]Goblin Piker is just that and as such a weak topdeck. At first its seemed to be an auto inclusion but in the past couple of weeks decks experimenting without them have been seen. In the future this card might be a splitting point between the 2 different variants.

Endless One
As a x-mana x/x its always unexciting but it will always fill your curve, can be super fast if you have the according opening hand and makes Eldrazi Mimic that much stronger. Aggressive colorless variants will want/have to play it, those decks splashing a color or two might have other choices.

Matter Reshaper
Don’t let you fool yourself into thinking this is the colorless Baleful Strix. It isn’t. What it does is filling the 3-mana slot which looks rather empty without it. With Eye of Ugin out it’s a Wild Nacatl which cantrips when it dies. That’s something aggressive decks do like, but it matches up poorly against a lot of other creatures (Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Eldrazi-Mirror).
Note: The ability to put something with cmc <=3 onto the battlefield is a may, so if you reveal a Chalice of the Void or an Endless One you can simply draw them.

Endbringer
We’re getting to the top of the curve, 6 mana is a lot even when having access to 16 sol-lands so the question is whether what we’re getting is worth it. As a 5/5 this not-so-little guy can bring the end to your opponent by smashing, though that’s what we have the actual Reality Smasher for.
The pinging is helpful for annoying opposing creatures like Dark Confidant or Young Pyromancer, it can put a stop to Thalia-attack-with-first-trike-while-being-equipped-with-Jitte-then-bounced-by-Karakas shenanigans which already is good.
Further this ability gives you an out to a resolved Ensnaring Bridge / Moat game 1.
Its also a good card to put into play against SneakShow as the tap ability can win you the game easily.
But wait! There’s more! He can even let you draw some cards in case non of the
above options is any good, that’s a fair amount of value for one card. Though as 6
mana is a steep step to pay you’ll only see some copies of him in the slower decks.

Oblivion Sower
Another 6 drop but without as much impact as the Endbringer. What it does offer you is a great body, matching up well against opposing Reality Smasher and Tarmogoyf. As processing is not as much of a deal in Legacy the exiling part isn’t interesting. Getting some lands on the other hand is nice as it can accelerate you into Eye of Ugin activations.

Blight Herder
It’s a 5 mana 4/5. Not exiting.
If you warp your deck around processing it would be worth it and I could see some use of him against creature heavy decks while also boarding Rest in Piece, but overall its weaker then other cards you get for 5-6 mana.

Phyrexian Revoker
The first non Eldrazi Creature I’m going to cover and while he’s flexible and can help you out in a lot of matchups, there are several others where he’s just a Goblin Piker.
The more aggressive versions will have enough 2 drops between the lock pieces and Eldrazi Mimic but those decks which opt to not include the mimic and play a more controlling/taxing deck will want a playset of this little phyrexian.

Lodestone Golem
Now we’re getting in Staxx territorial, 4 mana and hinders you nearly as much but its just a beating against most deck. You have to adjust your manabase as Eldrazi Tempel only adds 1 while Eye of Ugin adds 0 for casting this bad guy, but between him, Phyrexian Revoker and Thought Knot Seer you can deliver hard disruption while beating your opponent to death.

Phyrexian Metamorph
The only reason its not super awesome is that it costs 3 and 2 life (life which will be low for all those [card]Ancient Tomb usings) and being useless alone. But being able to copy Thorn of Amethyst, Thougt-Knot-Seer, Reality Smasher, Lodestone Golem and much more it’s just brilliant. As you can’t deny its disadvantages however most lists run 0-2.
Note: It also works with Eldrazi Mimic when copying a colorless creature.

Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Not really a thing as 10 mana is way to expensive even with all those sol-lands. But for some matchup its good to have as a searchable way of getting rid of annoying permanents. Better in your sideboard then in your maindeck though as most matchups won’t give you enough time to cast him.

Holly
03-15-2016, 02:35 PM
Other Cards
Between the many lands and the need for a good mixture of disruption/lock pieces and threats there’s not much room left in the deck for other cards. Still, after building the mainframe of your deck you will end up with a couple of flex spots, here are some of the more common used cards to fill up those spots to round up the deck.
Because there are so few spots for removal spells you’ll have to carefully chose which to play and in a game don’t mindlessly try to kill every creature your opponent plays. Our creatures are mostly big enough that you just have to take care of a small subset (Tarmogoyf, Tasigur, Gurmag Angler, Knight of the Reliquary)

Dismember
Playing colorless comes at a cost, you don’t have access to some of the more efficient removal spells. Nonetheless Dismember is a very powerful one, 1 mana to kill pretty much 95% of the creatures in Legacy. -5/-5 is often enough to kill the opposing creature to let your Thought-Knot Seer’s attack again though sometimes you will have to use it as a combat trick.
On the negative side costing 4 life when playing Ancient Tomb will be awkward at times and makes it pretty much impossible to run a playset. If you’re playing Urborg, Tomb of Yawghmoth it gets slighty better as it will happen that you’re able to pay with more mana for it.

Spatial Contortion
The lack of flex slots means that most decks only play 2 or 3 removal spells, as such they favor Dismember since -3/-3 is enough worse than Dismember and when playing only some copies the lifeloss doesn’t matter as much.
The problem with Spatial Contortion is that most of the time the creatures we care about are bigger than our Thought-Knot Seer or Reality Smasher, thus can’t be killed by the spell alone (making it pretty much a glorified Giant Growth) or they’re so small that other cards can take care of it while providing other benefits.
If you wan’t more removal for medium sized creatures and can’t play more Dismember it’s worth a consideration.

Umezawas Jitte
4 non Eldrazi mana before you get the first effect from it is much, but well worth it.
Not only allows it your creatures to battle and win against large Tarmogoyf, it can also kill pesky creatures (Young Pyromancer, Baleful Strix, Delver of Secrets) and even offset the damage you dealt yourself through Ancient Tomb.
Its legendary and useless without any creatures which is why most lists contempt themselves playing this as a 2 of.
It does get better when you’re playing creatures which sometimes might be near useless (Phyrexian Revoker) as even those will find a use when equipped with this sword.

Warping Wail
Also known as Kozileks Charm, a jack of all trades master of none.
What it gives you is a turn 1 cast able Envelop against combo decks. The possibility to counter late game enders like Show and Tell, Natural Order or Terminus. A way to get rid of small creatures similar to Umezawas Jitte . The Eldrazi Spawn is by far the least used mode but every other match there’s a point where its going to safe your day, be it as a suspended Lotus Petal, as a chump blocker or even as a way to play one more spell around Bloodmoon.
For its very versatile it’s liked in the maindeck, though as none of those modes are super efficient you’ll rarely see a playset. The counter mode is pretty non replaceable with our self-made restrictions which leads to some players having a full set in their 75, most commonly 2 maindeck and 2 sideboard.

All is Dust
This card is pretty much a one-sided boardwipe and will lead to your win a huge amount of the time you can play it. Which is exactly the point, IF you can play it. 7 mana is a lot, even for an Eldrazi spell (only Temple or Eye works). Between the manacost making it to slow in matchups you want it and being useless in some matchups even if you could cast it (Mirror, MUD, Affinity, non-Elves-Combo in general, […]) most people shy away from maindecking it.
Nonetheless it’s a mighty weapon which finds it way into some sideboards for its use against board-heavy midrange decks.

Ratchet Bomb
Ratchet Bomb is another way to eventually get rid of any permanent making you problems. It can kill a huge amount of tokens efficiently but is otherwise a slow card. The good side of it is, as our mana curve is well above the Legacy average, you’ll rarely run in the problem of destroying your own cards while getting rid of the troublesome permanent of your opponent.
If you want to be prepared for everything this is your card.

Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Is a All is Dust with a planeswalker attached to it for 1 more mana (though it being non-Eldrazi makes it feel like 3 mana more). Even harder to cast, more powerful and can be used in more matchups (vs control decks). Since it is very narrow you only want it in your sideboard as a 1 of, if at all.

Karn Liberated
Similar to Ugin, a tad cheaper but can’t wipe the board if you’re behind. Therefore he can get rid of any annoying permanent not just colored ones (some lands, Ensnaring Bridge).

Crucible of Worlds
Helps to fight through Wasteland and other land destruction, get's better if you play Wasteland yourself or some manlands which could die.
Not useful in every matchup but nice to have in some.



Sideboard
Again I’m not going to give you 15 cards and tell you this is your sideboard. That would be pretty pointless as every sideboard has to adjust itself to the played maindeck as the anticipated matches you’re going to face. As such I’ll like you to outline your options so you can chose what’s going to be the best for you.
For some cards above I’ve already written about their possible uses in the sideboard so I’m going to skip to repeat those and instead focus of cards which see pretty much only sideboard play.

Faerie Macabre
0 mana, doesn’t conflict with any of your lock pieces and gets the job done if you want to get rid of specific cards. It’s good against Reanimator and Lands, can be okayish against ANT.
Don’t board it in against opposing Tarmogoyf or delve-creatures.

Tormod’s Crypt
Similar to Faerie Macabre, you have to play it preemptively therefore it wont be discarded. Can be destroyed or bounced before you want to activate it though. Better against dredge.
Again don’t board it in against opposing Tarmogoyf or delve-creatures.

Surgical Extration
Another clash with Chalice of the Void, much like Pithing Needle hardly a problem in the lands matchup but will bite your butt when boarding it against Reanimator.
Some people hate this cards while others are fans of it. What are you?


Sword of X and Y
As a maindeck choice inferior to Umezawas Jitte those are sideboard choices worth considering.
Sword of Light and Shadow do help against the lifeloss of Ancient Tomb while also protection your creature from Swords to Plowshare, it also helps fighting against Batterskull.
The other choice is Sword of Fire and Ice for its ability to let you attack through True Name Nemesis while also giving you some card advantage and shocking creatures.
Reality Smasher is the most obvious choice for equipment, thanks to trample its able to often get 1 damage on the opponent, triggering the swords.

Pithing Needle
Clashes with Chalice of the Void for 1 big times. Still sees play in most sideboards, why is that?
The effect is just that good and needed. While Phyrexian Revoker can turn of most stuff it leaves out the most important card type we care about; lands.
Wasteland, Rishadan Port and Thespian Stage to name the most important ones, followed by Maze of Ith.
There’s one deck in Legacy playing all 4 of those and such is a bad matchup. To make things worse Chalice of the Void x=1 only stops Exploration/Manabond/Gamble and thus gets drastically worse on the draw (or whenever you can’t play it turn 1 on the play). More to that in the matchup section.


Mindbreak Trap:
What you read is what you get, 0 mana counterspell against Storm/Belcher/Rogue Hermit (Oops all spells).

Leyline of the Void
Leylines do make for awkward situations whenever they’re not in your starting hand. Since we’re very dependent on ours and have to aggressively mulligan to a hand of “mana, threat, disruption” adding Leyline to the equation will lead to unhappy faces.
However one can’t deny the power a turn 0 Leyline has as it can win games on its own.

Leyline of Sanctuary
Has the same problem as Leyline of the Void but only can singlehandedly win in the Burn matchup. You could board it in against heavy discard decks (Shardless BUG). While I doubt that’s where you want to be, I haven’t tested it yet.

Sun Droplet
Another card to shore up the aggressive matchups. It helps to offset damage dealt yourself via Ancient Tomb, makes Delver of Secrets more bearable and can help in the Burn matchup.
Unfortunately you can’t rely to much on it against Burn as they can just burst you down in 1-2 turns between Price of Progress and Fireblast thus reducing its effect.
Note: If you have 2 Sun Droplet in play Ancient Tomb starts to slowly gain you life.


Weakness of Eldrazi Stompy/Shops
While the deck is strong and cards like Chalice of the Void or Thorn of Amethyst can win games on their own on turn 1, the deck also has weaknesses which are exploitable. Some of those can be helped out with the above sideboard cards, others can’t be covered by colorless cards which is one reason people tend to splash one or more colors into their deck.

Painter Servant – shuts off Eye of Ugin and the good part of Eldrazi Temple as both lands specify “colorless” cards.
Can be answered by Dismember, Spatial Consortion and Warping Wail.

Big creatures – Tarmogoyf gets easily to 4/5 thus blocking our Thought-Knot Seer which drastly slows us down. Often enough it can also be a 5/6 nullyfing our attacks completely. Other big creatures: Knight of the Reliquary (also land destruction!) Tasigur, Gurmag Angler.
All those get answered by Dismember to a certain degree, sometimes in combination with an attack/block. Endbringer can also tap those down.

True Name Nemesis – This fish spells hard time. You can however trample over him with Reality Smasher but he’s going to blank a lot of your other creatures. Ratchet Bomb is a (slow) way of getting rid of him, so is All is Dust. As long as hes not equipped you can win through him with Smasher or just by attacking with a lot of huge creatures (Eldrazi Mimic, Endless One) if he gets equipment only it’s going to be ugly.

Manadisruption – Wasteland, Rishadan Port are all going to “destroy” 2 mana of ours and thus can be hard to overcome or slow us down while the opponent advances their board through Aether Vial or Exploration.
Can be answered by extra lands, Wasteland of your own or Pithing Needle. Playing other mana acceleration like Mox Diamond, Mindstone or Talismans will help you aswell.
Armageddon effects like From the Ashes, there’s not much you can do about them apart from playing other acceleration, playing Wastes, countering it or having a good enough board presence already.

Fast combo – Belcher, Stormdecks aiming for t1 kills etc. can’t be stopped by our lock pieces on the draw. It doesn’t even have to be the worst case. T1 discard on our single lock piece into t2 win is quite possible aswell. Reanimator could also go for the t1 Entomb in response to our Chalice of the Void or t1 Entomb t2 Reanimate through Thorn of Amethyst.
Answers: More lock pieces to fight the discard into win, Mindbreak Trap, Warping Wail, in case of Reanimator: graveyard hate & Karakas and in theory Endbringer though that’s more often than not going to be to slow.

Bloodmoon – “Shuts off” every land making you unable to play your best cards.
Warping Wail can get you one more mana if cast in response, otherwise if you’re not playing the above mentioned mana acceleration or Wastes you’re pretty much done and have to hope your board presence is good enough. Ratchet Bomb can get it but is still going to give your opponent quite some time if you haven’t been ticking it up already.

Ensnaring Bridge, Moat, Humility – There is not much you can do, Ratchet Bomb can answer them. Endbringer can win through the first two but is going to be slow. Humility..go in with your 1/1’s and pray for the best.

Lack of deck manipulation – You’re going to take some mulligans. Its part of the deck and inevitable, make the best of it and learn when to take a mulligan and when not. You’re looking for mana, disruption and threats. Sometimes mana and one those will get there.
Note that this time I did say disruption not lockpiece, turn1 Phyrexian Revoker on Lion’s Eye Diamond or Sneak Attack into turn2 Thought Knot Seer[/card]s might be good enough against Storm/SneakShow for example.


Splashing colors
There are various reasons you can decide to splash one or more colors. It can be to supplement your overall strategy or make up for weaknesses with impactful sideboard cards.
Whatever your reasons might be you have to carefully adjust your mana.
[cards]Cavern of Souls (and if you’re playing Corrupted Crossroads) generate mana of each color but only for your Eldrazi creatures, making splashing those easily. However they won’t help you at all if you’re trying to cast sideboard cards like Rest in Piece!
In general you should make sure every card you splash only costs 1 colored mana, generating for example BG or WW will be very difficult and might do too much damage to your manabase to be worth it.
More often then not you see decks splashing 2 colors as the painlands fix mana for 2 colors, making it as easy as just splashing 1 color, while still providing the much needed colorless mana.

White:
Splashing White offers you a lot of splendid hate cards as in Rest in Piece for graveyard hate, Containment Priest for unfair strategies orDisenchant (see weaknesses above, a lot of those cards are artifacts or enchantments!). Karakas also gets better if you splash white. Those alone would be a good enough reason to splash white, yet still the main reason is this guy: Eldrazi Displacer
As a 3/3 for 3 he’s filling the low spot in your curve which previously could only be taken by Matter Reshaper & Endless One, both of which are only good in aggressive strategies. The main appeal however is his ability, for 3 mana you can blink another creature, what’s important to realize: the creature comes back tapped! Here are some tricks this guy can do for you:
- Protect other creatures from removal
- Stop creatures from attacking (good against Show and Tell, Reanimator, sometimes Sneak Attack (the creature will however stay in play!) and sometimes just a big Tarmogoyf)
-Kills tokens (Batterskull, Marit Lage!)
- Solves the problem of opposing equipment
- Triggers Eldrazi Mimic again without the need to play another creature.
- If you flicker a Thought Knot Seer you can chose the order you stack your triggers, meaning most commonly you let your opponent draw a card and then chose one to remove from his hand. This can remove a just miracle’d Terminus before they can cast it!
Sometimes you can also change the order of the triggers, your opponent is empty handed and has an Ensnaring Bridge in play. You flicker your Thought Knot Seer, you stack the trigger as following “draw” “remove”, you remove nothing. Now you flicker TKS again stacking the triggers the same way. The result: your opponent draws 2 cards and you can attack with your Eldrazi Mimic again !
-“Rebuys” other triggers of your creature, lets say something which creates Eldrazi Spawns?!
-Can kill creatures permanently in combination with Containment Priest
- If you play Russians greatest love machine (Rasputin Dreamweaver) you can make infinite mana.
As you can see he offers you a great deal of diversity and board control.
Note: Eldrazi Temple adds 2 mana for his ability!

Blue
Flusterstorm is worth a consideration as it’s a cc1 counter which works around Chalice of the Void and can hit instants compared to Warping Wail.
Phyrexian Metamorph gets a minimal upgrade as you can sometimes hardcast him to save a point of damage.
Those are minor points, the main reasons are the Eldrazi creatures blue offers:
Drowner of Hope brings a lot of beef on the table for 6 mana and a great ability to boot. Similar to Eldrazi Displacer offers you board control; lets you attack through big creatures, can stop Sneak Attack, buys time against Show and Tell, stops equipped creatures from dealing damage..
Last but not least blue offers you limited allstar Eldrazi Skyspawner.
This guy ramps you at a valid point in time, making it easier to have 3 mana on turn 5. The flying body is relevant trading with Delver of Secrets (and sometimes chumpblocking Marit Lage) and is a good body for your own equipment.
Those two creatures work well together as Drowner doesn’t care where the spawns come from. As a added benefit the Spawns also help playing around Bloodmoon.
Thanks to all those spawns a blue splash works well with playing Umezawas Jitte and maybe even a sideboard SoXaY.
Blue is often splashed together with white as they share a Talisman and Eldrazi Displacer is quite happy to flicker some token-maker.


Black
Black offers you Toxic Deluge which often enough is a one sided sweeper and is a great way to get rid of True Name Nemesis or a swarm of tokens blocking your big Eldrazis, take care of your life total though. Speaking of: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth gets better, helping you to preserve your life total from Ancient Tomb and Dismember can be more often cast with mana.
Bearer of Silence is also a way to get card advantage going, the edict-effect is matchup dependent. Unfortunately it can’t block Delver of Secrets which would make it great but it’s a good equipment-carrier.
Note that its on cast so counterspells won’t stop it but you can’t put it into play for much use against Show and Tell.
Eye of Ugin won’t reduce the cost of the trigger, making it total cost still B+1C.
Another creature black offers you is Wasteland Strangler, between Thought Knot Seer, Warping Wail, opposing Force of Will & Deathrite Shaman its not too difficult to get the processing going and he can be a great way to kill before mentioned DRS or something like a Delver of Secrets, Baleful Strix etc.
As there are matchups in which he’s useless and some matchups in which he’s harder to turn on, it’s probably more of a sideboard card.

Red:
Red offers some artifact destruction similar to Green and white though lacks enchantment removal. Therefore you gain Pyroclasm or Kozileks Return, latter lends itself into playing a more top heavy version but be careful as it does kill your Thought Knot Seer.
Red also gives you access to Vile Aggregate which not only has a huge butt for 3 mana but can grow to Tarmogoyf size. The trample isn’t irrelevant and gives you more creatures which can easily attack through True Name Nemesis. Swords of XaY get slighty better aswell.
You also gain the possibility to play Eldrazi Obligator, which can end games very fast. Worst case scenario it’s a 2 mana 3/1 haste which is nothing to scoff at and helps rebuilding pressure after a sweeper.
Vile Aggregate gives you small an impulse to splash blue as your second color as Eldrazi Skyspawner suddenly adds 5 power to the board with an Aggregate in play.



Green
Green offers you a better Disenchant in Krosan Grip and World Breaker. Splashing the latter is relatively easy as it’s a 7 drop which can be cast from Cavern of Souls. He’s an out to those annoying Enchantments/Artifacts, when playing Mox Diamond or Elvish Spirit Guide he can even be an answer to Bloodmoon.
I found his ability to destroy lands to slow in the actual Lands matchup to matter much apart from some random games but its worth noting, as is his ability to return to your hand from your graveyard.
His huge body helps to fight through big creatures and his reach can catch the one or other Delver of Secrets not paying attention.
Note: Eldrazi Temple doesn’t add 2 mana for his recursion ability.

Holly
03-15-2016, 02:35 PM
Sample Decklists inc.

More Matchup Analysis inc.
A perfect matchup analysis is difficult as it depends on your decklist, your sideboard aswell as their decklist. Even than every game can play out totally different.
As such I’m not a fan of win percentages, instead I’m going to indicate who tends to be favored while providing some infos on how those decks are going to win against us, what we can do against it and which cards are even more important than others.

Miracles – Favors Eldrazi
Miracles is a control deck which utilizes Counterbalance in combination with Sensei’s Divining Top to control the stack while Terminus clears the board.
Thanks to our high mana curve Counterbalance is pretty ineffective, adding to that we play several Cavern of Souls so we hardly need to fear it or their other Counterspells.
Snapcaster Mage can’t trade for any of our creatures but non-triggered Eldrazi Mimic, Matter Reshaper and Phyrexian Revoker which makes it less effective than it could be. It’s still going to flashback a Swords to Plowshares if possible. It’s important to put them under pressure but not overextend into Terminus, always try to have a backup creature. The way they’re going to beat you is a Terminus to wipe the board into a Monastery Mentor whose army can outclass us.
As games can easily go long this is one of the rarer matchups in which we actually can use the ability of Eye of Ugin which will turn the game in our favor.
In sideboard games you have to be careful of Blood Moon and From the Ashes, some lists also include Moat and rarer Humility.
Important cards for the matchup:
Chalice of the Void x=1 as most Miracle lists rely on cantrips to hit their landdrops, also protection from Swords to Plowshares.
Phyrexian Revoker for Sensei’s Divining Top (2nd target Jace). Their deck heavily depends on it to set up Terminus /hit land drops. Never attack with a Revoker into 2+ mana, you don’t want to trade it for a Snapcaster Mage !
Reality Smasher’s haste is relevant after a Terminus into Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
Warping Wail counters Terminus/Entreat the Angels and can kill a Vendilion Clique trying to race us.
Winterorb is going to be a beating against them aswell.
Thorns of Amethyst depends heavily on their decklist, if they favor high cantrips, lots of Snapcaster Mage and low amount of lands it taxes their mana pretty good. If they play more lands, less Snapcaster and rarely try to play more than 1 spell per turn it loses much of its power.
The white splash is good as Eldrazi Displacer can protect other creatures from Swords to Plowshares and can in combination with Thought-Knot Seer prevent Terminus from getting miracle’d.
Green provides the useful World Breaker who can get us out of their enchantment hate or Karakas shenanigans. The red splash can take care of a Monastery Mentor army, the other splashes do not provide anything overwhelming.
Bad cards in the matchup: Matter Reshaper, Endless One

Death and Taxes – Favors slighty Death and Taxes
Is another control deck, this time utilizing dozens of annoying creatures.
They have mana disruption in form of Wasteland and Rishadan Port (while progressing their board thanks to Aether Vial).
Mother of Runes is useless against us, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben barely taxes us.
Our Thorn of Amethyst are useless, Chalice of the Void is just a minor annoyance for them and can be made useless by Flickerwisp.
Stoneforge Mystic into Batterskull is a huge problem and can’t be raced by Reality Smasher.
Thalia equipped with an active Umezawa’s Jitte will block everything we throw at her and kill our Eldrazi Mimic’s.
Flickerwisp can also kill Endless One.
Some lists also include Imperial Recruiter for Magus of the Moon making it even harder.
How are we going to win: Kill them before they get going, have Thought-Knot Seer for their equipment before it gets online, an active Jitte is also going to be game over.
Important cards for the matchup:
Umezawa’s Jitte will kill every creature of theirs.
Phyrexian Revoker on Aether Vial will make it hard for them to tax our mana while developing their board, also stops lots of their little tricks. Another potent target is Stoneforge Mystic in case we can’t grab the equipment with our Thought-Knot Seer.
Wastes if you play them, this is the matchup they’re for. Other permanent mana acceleration is also going to be golden.
Sideboard cards which help: Tsabo’s Web, Sword of Light and Shadow.
The red splash is splendid here, it can wipe their board, Vile Aggregate can smash through their defense easily. White offers you Eldrazi Displacer who can shut down their equipped creatures (as long as its not revokered) and Batterskull. Containment Priest is another way to shut of Aether Vial but makes their Flickerwisp even more lethal.
Bad cards in the matchup: Thorn of Amethyst, Chalice of the Void to a certain degree (play it when you’re on the play as shutting of Vial is just so good, on the draw its definitely cuttable). The value of Endless One heavily depends on the amount of Flickerwisp they play and you can never expect it to be large.


Canadian ******** (RUG Delver, Temur Delver) – Favor slighty Eldrazi
Is THE definition of a tempo deck, low costed aggressive creatures, backed up by free counterspells and supported by cheap burn. All glued together through the use of cheap efficient cantrips.
Lighting Bolt hardly kills anything relevant and Nimble Mungoose is pretty bad against our creatures.
A Chalice of the Void x=1 restricts their deck to Tarmogoyf, Daze and Force of Will.
As they do run a low amount of lands (14 + 4 Wasteland) Thorn of Amethyst is devastating.
How they’re going to beat you is by landing a Delver of Secrets and riding it to victory, countering the first lock piece for free, disturbing out mana with [cards]Wasteland and maybe even land a Tarmogoyf (normally going to be a 5/6 in this matchup) to block our attacks or add even more pressure. Between Ancient Tomb and Delver of Secrets we’re getting low so one or two Lightning Bolts will spell K.O.
We’re going to beat them if we land an early lock piece or they can’t put us under pressure early. While Tarmogoyf is going to be a roadblock he can’t attack into us well as we will have to much power on board to attack back.
After boarding they might have more burn (Price of Progress) and artifact destruction for our lock pieces.
Important cards for the matchup:
Our lock pieces as said above.
Removal, Dismember for Tarmogoyf and Delver of Secrets, add Spatial Contortion for the later. Ratchet Bomb is also a way to kill those two.
Umezawa’s Jitte to kill Delver of Secrets and stabilize our life total.
Endless One can be bigger than everything they have and they can’t kill it.
The black splash adds Bearer of Silence, the blue splash Eldrazi Skyspawner to block Delver. The red Splash has Vile Aggregate to (maybe) trade with Tarmogoyf and Eldrazi Obligator will turn a Tarmogoyf for a turn, likely enough to win.
White splash adds Rest in Peace, though Nimble Mungoose is medicore against us, still going to make a laugh out of Tarmogoyf.
Bad cards in the matchup: Everything cmc6+, Phyrexian Revoker, Warping Wail

Grixis Delver – Favors none
Similar to Canadian ********, but this deck cut their bad cards against us (Stifle, Nimble Mongoose) and added ones good versus us.
They will win in a similar manner against us, though Young Pyromancer gives them another angle of attack by going wide and can give them a lot of time. Tarmogoyf just got replaced by Tasigur or Gurmag Angler so the lack of green is no cause for joy.
Our lock pieces are premium here, though on the draw they will be even harder to land thanks to Cabal Therapy.
The same cards as against Canadian ******** are going to be good (apart from Endless One who’s now going to be chump blocked by Elemental tokens), but their splash also changes our splash.
Black gets worse as Bearer of Silence is crap against Young Pyromancer, though if you play Toxic Deluge you can easily destroy their board. Red gets better as Vile Aggregate can trample through their tokens and can’t be killed by Tasigur alone.
White is thanks to Rest in Peace still good, blocking their delve-creatures as well as flashbacks.
Bad cards: Matter Reshaper matches up poorly against the tokens. Phyrexian Revoker has no targets apart from Deathrite Shaman. Compared to Canadian ***** Endbringer gets better as it kills Young Pyromancer and Warping Wail is actually good between him and Deathrite Shaman.

Team America (BUG Delver, Sultai Delver) – slighty favors them.
The slowest of the Delver decks (well there’s patriot but that one doesn’t see much play anymore) and might be the hardest.
While their lack of reach is good news for us, Abrupt Decay can mean they’re able to get out of our lock.
In addition to Tarmogoyf lists often play 2 from True-Name Nemesis, Tasigur, Gurmag Angler or rarer Tombstalker. The Nemesis will have no equipment which means Reality Smasher can still trample through it but our outs to Tombstalker are rare.
Abrupt Decay also means they have an answer to Endless One.
Hymn to Tourach can leave us empty handed, getting additional support from a most likely 1-of Liliana of the Veil.
After sideboarding expect a little bit more removal and if they fear Eldrazis maybe even Sower of Temptation. Vendilion Clique to fly over as the ground gums up are also a possibility.
How do we beat them? Our lock pieces, while they can get out of them, are still good and will be obstacles they have to overcome.
As they’re slower they will struggle with early pressure from one or more Eldrazi Mimic followed by any threat. A turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer removing their Tarmogoyf can also win games alone.
They struggle with killing our larger Eldrazi’s, most list play only about 3 from Dismember or Liliana of the Veil.
Umezawa’s Jitte is good when its online, but it’s a risky play – you invest 4 mana which can be turn to dust by a timely Abrupt Decay.
Splashwise white is great (Rest in Peace & Eldrazi Displacer) blue is good (Drowner of Hope & Eldrazi Skyspawner), black is good (Bearer of Silence and Wasteland Strangler (who will be nearly always online). Green doesn’t add much, though World Breaker is bigger than anything they do and is even an out to the uncommon Tombstalker. Red’s Eldrazi Obligator can turn the tide, Vile Aggregate can be killed by Abrupt Decay but that’s just a card we have to overwhelm with targets.
Bad cards: Phyrexian Revoker can get Deathrite Shamans and their 0-2 Liliana of the Veil they play but that’s about it. Matter Reshaper matches up poorly with their creatures. Equipments can lead to blowouts because of Abrupt Decay so be careful with those. Warping Wail gets Deathrite Shamans and unflipped Delver of Secrets but can’t counter anything useful.

Shardless BUG (Shardless Sultai) – favors them
Similar to Team America but they trade their tempo cards (Delver of Secrets, Daze) for more grinding power in Shardless Agent and Ancestral Vision.
Why is that matchup much more difficult than Team America?
Their higher mana curve makes Chalice of the Void less attractive, they do play more creatures which weakens Thorn of Amethyst. Baleful Strix is a road block and between it and Tarmogoyf profitable attacks are rare.
Toxic Deluge can reset the board if we press the advantage.
While our ways of generating card advantage (mostly Chalice) are getting disabled, they will draw tons of extra cards and overwhelm us. Lines of T2 Hymn to Tourach into T3 Liliana of the Veil are very hard to beat on the draw.
How do we win? We have to try to be faster than they are and aggro them out before their card advantages matters, or we have to make sure we have a better lategame then they do. Apart from some Toxic Deluges their removal will be restricted to Baleful Strix and Abrupt Decay which means they can’t interact with our big guys unless we let them. If we can take care of Tarmogoyf (regularly 5/6) they won’t be able to stand trough the stampede.
Important cards in the matchup:
Endbringer shines here in killing the dreaded Baleful Strix before letting our team swing by their Tarmogoyf.
Warping Wail kills Strix, Deathrite Shaman and counters Ancestral Vision & Toxic Deluge.
Crucible of Worlds together with Wasteland can do serious damage to their manabase.
Matter Reshaper can actually profitable attack into everything but Tarmogoyf.
Sword of Fire and Ice can let us swing pass their Baleful Strix but can lead to blowouts against Abrupt Decay.
The Black splash is awesome here, Bearer of Silence is medium against Shardless Agent but most of the time we don’t hate them sacrificing Baleful Strix. The true powerhouse is Wasteland Strangler though. We have the usual Thought-Knot Seer & Warping Wail to turn him on, they have Force of Will + Deathrite Shaman and even more delicious to eat: Ancestral Vision.
Drowner of Hope will also do heavy lifting here and as in every creature-heavy matchup Eldrazi Displacers can provide an unmatched board control.
Bad cards: Thorn of Amethyst. Chalice of the Void is actually very medium, too.






Elves - no favourites
A creature heavy combo deck. It can overwhelm you with Glimpse of Nature into hundreds of little green 1/1’s or a Green’s Sun Zenith / Natural Order into Craterhoof Behemoth to turn those 1/1’s into Eldrazi-like-powerhouses. A 3rd angle of attack would be their grind plan, similar to Glimpse they will end up with dozens of small creatures, this time by drawing extra cards with Elvish Visionary & Wirewood Symbiote. Thankfully there won’t be enough instants/sorceries to burn us out with Deathrite Shaman.
Another card they can beat us with is Wren’s Run Packmaster
Chalice of the Void x=1 IS awesome against them but far from an auto-win, specially on the draw, as they can search up Reclamation Sage to get rid of it.
Sphere of Resistance is very good against them while Thorns of Amethyst does pretty much nothing. Trinisphere tends to be overrated, it is good against the Glimpse plan but still loses to Natural Order.
After boarding expect Cabal Therapy and Abrupt Decay as ways to get rid of our locks.
Other good cards:
Thought-Knot Seer doesn’t need explanation.
Phyrexian Revoker, most likely to be naming Wirewood Symbiote or Heritage Druid but in a pinch can be set on any mana producer they have.
Warping Wail if on the play can slow them down by killing their 1-drop and counters their scary sorceries.
Umezawa’s Jitte is backbreaking once activated, but remember they can block and bounce with Symbiote so you won’t get any counters on it.
Black splash offers you Toxic Deluge to whipe their board but nothing else.
Red offers you boardwipes too, in addition to Vile Aggregate to nullify their chump-block-bounce-with-Symbiote-tricks.
Eldrazi Skyspawner lets you get through with Jitte more easily.
White has Containment Priest to stop Natural Order & Green’s Sun Zenith.


Storm – ANT – Favored / TES dice roll dependent.
While they’re different decks and play out slighty different, our way to combat them is the same.
Both decks are trying to cast at least 9 spells in a turn followed by a Tendrils of Agony. To reach those 9+ spells they generate mana and chain Infernal Tutor or abuse Past in Flames or Ad Nauseam.
TES is faster as it plays Chrome Mox and Rite of Flame instead of the slower Cabal Ritual and uses Burning Wish to have naturally more business spells. ANT is slower, using cantrips and more tutors (Dark Petition) and favors Past in Flames over Ad Nauseam as an engine.
Chalice of the Void x=1 is preboard pretty much game over for TES, ANT can still get enough mana to scrap out a win but it will be difficult. Both decks can win through a [cards]Thorn of Amethiyst / Sphere of Resistance but those can easily turn into a win. If you open a hand with Chalice and Thorn, set the Chalice on 0 to block Lotus Petal, Lion’s Eye Diamond and an eventual Chrome Mox.
Later Chalice’s can be set for x=2 to block Infernal Tutor and Burning Wish or Cabal Ritual.
After boarding they will bring in ways to combat our locks, be it artifact destruction or bounce.
Sometimes preboard (especially TES) or not uncommonly postboard (ANT) they try to go wide with a large Empty the Warrens since apart from our tramplers no further damage will get through and we have hardly anything to interact with a huge amount of tokens. Add to that, that its a faster way to victory (10 tokens on turn 1 are going to race us and any lockpiece we have). If you play Ratchet Bomb you should probably bring it in as an answer to the tokens. Another (rarer) use is blowing up their mana artifacts which they will play down beforehand to save mana against Thorns and get them before Chalice lands. But be careful to not blow you own Chalice up unless you need/can afford to.
Our goal is to lock them out while applying pressure making the most important creatures:
Phyrexian Revoker (when in doubt: Lion’s Eye Diamond > Lotus Petal > Chrome Mox)
Thought-Knot Seer
Lodestone Golem
Phyrexian Metamorph copying any of the above.
Other good cards:
Trinisphere gives them a really hard time.
Warping Wail is a hard counter for the important Tutor/Wish or Past in Flames.
If you sideboard Mindbreak Trap, that’s the matchup.
Rest in Peace is decent against ANT as it abuses the graveyard but lackluster against TES.
Bad cards: removal, equipment, every big dumb creature (cc5+), Matter Reshaper

SneakShow: Aggro lists without Revokers will have a bad time game 1. With them its going to be relatively even (slightly favor them). A certain splash can turn this matchup HEAVILY in our favor.
They try to cheat in Griselbrand or the mother of Eldrazis: Emrakul via Show and Tell or Sneak Attack to win the game. Between sol lands and sometimes Lotus Petal they go for it as soon as turn 1. More commonly after playing some cantrips on turn 2-3.
Chalice of the Void blocks their cantrips but can’t stop them from winning. Thorn of Amethyst / Sphere of Resistance delay everything by a turn but again, won’t stop them from winning.
Our big dumb beaters won’t be able to race them.
The colorless version has as good cards:
Phyrexian Revoker (Sneak Attack, naming Griselbrand is an option but we’re not going to beat a 7/7 lifelinker anyway under normal circumstances).
Thought-Knot Seer is going to provide early pressure and is awesome to disturb their 2 card combo.
Lodestone Golem do apply pressure while delaying them.
Endbringer who can tap down their sneaked in creature (which dies end of turn) or repeatedly taps down their Show and Tell’ed creature.
After boarding expect Blood Moon which rarely will be game over for us, as at the time it hits we hopfefully have some pressure in play, but will slow us down and can shut of our Karakas
In the board we should have some Pithing Needles which will come in for Sneak Attack.
Most splashes don’t provide anything useful, red can steal a win with Eldrazi Obligator now and then. Worldbreaker might be useful once in a while as Show and Tell target to destroy Sneak Attack before they can use it. Black has Bearer of Silence as an possible answer after Show and Tell (but you have to cast it, don’t put it into play please!). Drowner of Hope can buy some turns against Show and Tell or Sneak Attack.
But the splash color to really change the match completely is white. Karakas is a problem card for them, as is Containment Priest.
Eldrazi Displacer can buy enough time for a win as well (careful when displacing [cards]Sneak Attack targets as those won’t be sacrificed at the end of turn anymore).
Bad cards: Dumb beater like Reality Smasher, Matter Reshaper, Endless One, equipment, removal. You probably have more bad cards than good cards to side in, so some of those beaters have to stay in. Try to build some curve to build up pressure as fast as possible and keep it up.

Lands - favors them
Lands is a combo/control deck, I’ll cover the rg-combo-heavy version as that one is by know the more commonly played one. It’s going to slow you down with mana disruption in the form of Wasteland and Rishadan Port, stabilizing with Maze of Ith and The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale before killing you with Marit Lage.
Chalice of the Void x=1 on the play is brilliant as its shutting of Exploration (their card to pull them ahead) and Gamble, on the draw its way worse since Exploration will already be in play. On x=2 its still going to be good to stop Life from the Loam, but getting to the 4 necessary mana can be hard.
Thorn of Amethyst / Sphere of Resistance do nothing, Winterorb if played can be good but can backfire quite as easily.
If you’re playing Mox Diamond or any Talisman/Mindstone it’s going to be a bit easier.
Preboard we can pretty much only win if they have a slow start and we can aggro them out as most of our disruption is subpar. If you’re playing Wastelands of your own it gets a little bit easier as that can buy you another turn.
A successful cast Endbringer is good as it’s impossible for them to remove and you can tap Marit Lage down, but getting to 6 mana is a challenge on its own.
Crucible of Worlds is also good as it does allow us to recover, we will still be grinded out eventually if they can pull ahead with Exploration.
The sideboard gives us Pithing Needle which is very much needed. Graveyard hate in any form is also good to slow their loam engine down.
White splash offers us Karakas (good against Marit Lage though will be the target of Wasteland/Rishadan Port eventually) and Eldrazi Displacer who is able to kill Marit Lage, or at least until they destroyed every land we have which gives us time.
Blue offers a 1 time chumpblocker in Eldrazi Skyspawner, who will also help out your mana a little bit, and 2 turns time with Drowner of Hope.
Red can steal some wins with Eldrazi Obligator if you force them to make Marit Lage in their turn and they don’t have a Maze of Ith, that’s about as cornercase as it gets.
Greens World breaker has been to slow for me in the matchup to matter but is worth mentioning.

Infect – G1 favors them slightly, G2 & 3 us.
Infect has 3 routes to victory in this matchup. The first is pumping an infect guy to one or two-shot us. The second is grinding us out for one or two poison counters a turn with Blighted Agent or Blinkmoth Nexus pumped by Pendelhaven or Noble Hierarch.
The third, quite uncommon one, is pumping said Noble Hierarch and going for a normal damage kill (I guess slighty more common against us because of [cards]Ancient Tomb.
Their infect creatures cost 0 (Blinkmoth Nexus), 1 (Glistener Elf) or 2 mana (Blighted Agent) while their pump spells costs 1 (Vines of Vastwood, Berserk), 3 (Invigorate, cast for 0) or 6 (Become Immense) mana. This results in Chalice of the Void never going to be able to win the game itself. Nonetheless its still going to be a great impact on the match, shutting off a great deal of the important parts + their cantrips.
An early sphere effect will hinder them as they are commonly light on lands, though after a couple of turns (3-4+) its not uncommon to only cast 1 spell per turn if any, thus reducing the impact.
An active Umezawa’s Jitte is as good as game over.
Decks playing Wasteland or Ghost Quarter will have an easier time in this matchup while those lacking those might want to include some more sideboard slots for it.
Removal is king, Warping Wail is good but can be countered by any pump spell or Pendelhaven. Dismember is awesome, nearly no drawback and can’t be countered by a single Invigorate.
You should try to cast your removal spells end of combat / end of turn, you don’t want to cast them before damage, only to have them cast a kicked Vines of Vastwood and in addition to protecting their creature dealing 4 more poison counters ! If they have a Noble Hierarch out cast your Warping Wails in your turn if possible as otherwise the exalted trigger will force you to cast your removal precombat resulting in the above scenario. Nexus + Hierarch + pump spell will result in a useless Warping Wail, in that case you’re better of killing the Hierarch.
Glistener Elf is the least of our problems, we have a lot of creatures, only waste a removal spell on him if necessary. Always block him, you’re fine trading your Eldrazi Mimic for the Elf or a pump spell.
This is an interesting match and games can play out wildly different depending on your opening cards. It can be a race for the win ending on turn 3 or a grindy matchup with no one gaining a huge advantage.
However game 1 favors them as our ways to interact with Blinkmoth Nexus or Blighted Agent are few and they’re commonly as fast as we are, making a race problematic. Add to that the blocker you might have to leave back for the Glistener Elf..
After boarding expect some way to get rid of your annoying artifacts (specially Umezawa’s Jitte if you play it) but nothing more dangerous than game 1.
For your sideboard: any removal you have will go a long way to ensure your win. Pithing Needle, while being awful with a Chalice of the Void x=1 out is still a fine choice just to shut off their Blinkmoth Nexus.
A good splash will help out a long way and nearly every color gives you some advantage.
White again offers the Eldrazi Displacer, which stops their attempts to one-shot us as long as you have mana left. This means unless they have the mana for Vines of Vastwood in addition to another pump spell they have to grind it out. If you actually get to 6 mana you can easily shut off one creature completely.
Black offers Bearer of Silence and Wasteland Strangler, both fail to kill a Nexus which is unfortunate. Bearer of Silence often will result in them sacrificing a Noble Hierarch or Glistener Elf, the Wasteland Strangler will do good work in killing a Blighted Agent though.
Blue gives you Eldrazi Skyspawner which is HUGE against Blinkmoth Nexus trading for it or at least a pump spell while giving you time. Drowner of Hope can buy you enough time to smash their face but can easily be to expensive to matter.
Red can have Pyroclasm / Kozileks Return to kill all but Blinktmoth Nexus which is splendid.
Green doesn’t add much. World Breaker is able to kill the Blinkmoth Nexus but more often then not will come out to late.
Bad cards: Its difficult in this matchup to say any cards are actually horrible. While it can be game over turn 2, you still need Reality Smasher as a way to close out the game in tons of other games. I’d say everything costing 6 or above is worth a cut as is the slower acceleration (Talismans) as you often won’t have the time to cast them. Phyrexian Revoker also lacks targets besides Noble Hierarch.


Reanimator – dice roll, splash can make us favorites
Similar to SneakShow they try to cheat in a big meany guy and ride it to victory. Compared to SneakShow they’re faster and more easily disrupted in their attempts.
Their ways to bin a creature to the graveyard consists of: Entomb, Careful Study and discarding to handsize, some lists do play a couple of Hapless Researcher or Izzet Charm, giving them another way.
Discarding to handsize is a) slow and more often than not they have to chose whether to go for it or not on turn 1. All their other ways, apart from Izzet Charm, cost 1 mana thus getting turned off by Chalice of the Void x=1 !
On the reanimation side they have Reanimate, Exhume and some copies of Animate Dead. Again Chalice does help but won’t stop them completely in this regard.
Some lists even play about 2 Show and Tell maindeck, though that’s more commonly a sideboard card for them.
They’re light on lands making Thorn of Amethyst, Sphere of Resistance and Trinisphere all good cards.
Endbringer can force them to go for Tidesprout Tyrant but with cc6 and summon sick will often be to late.
Game 1 is mostly a dice roll, if you can land your lockpieces (specially Chalice of the Void) before they’re doying anything useful you’ll beat them more often than not. On the other hand they can easily do their thing before you have a chance to cast your artifacts.
Creatures they will attempt to get: Griselbrand is their default target and hard to beat on board.
Grave Titan can be actually raced rather easily.
Blazing Archon is not commonly played but will win the game for them (unless you have the Eldrazi Displacer for it). – Sideboard card only.
Elesh Norn is difficult but not unmanageable to beat.
Tidesprout Tyrant is hard to beat if they can follow up with any spells (Chalice won’t stop them here).
After boarding expect Show and Tell to go above the graveyard hate, lots of lists favor Abrupt Decay or bounce spells to get rid of the hate. You don’t need any splash to get in a favorable position in this matchup, one hate as f.e. Faerie Macabre is often enough to buy you enough time to lock them out of the game through your artifacts. Thought-Knot Seer is also naturally good against the Show and Tell route.
White is the splash to win this matchup. Between sideboard cards like Rest in Peace and Containment Priest the much praised Eldrazi Displacer can fight a creature they already got on the battlefield and still lets you win. Karakas is also a thing, stopping most of their creatures.
Blue gives you Drowner of Hope, if it hits it can swing the race in your favor despite them having a creature but 6 mana is too much.
Black has Bearer of Silence as an additional answer for when they got their creature into play.
Red & green doesn’t offer anything apart from niche uses of Eldrazi Obligator to win the match.
Bad cards: Matter Reshaper, Equipment, Phyrexian Revoker (Lotus Petal can be a random relevant target, Griselbrand is worth a call but 7/7 lifelink flying will still beat us), Dismember (has niche uses for letting you attack your creatures into Griselbrand/Elesh Norn and hope they block and don’t have a counter).

Dredge – favors us
There are to variants of Dredge, the rarer manaless version which can grind well if undisturbed and makes use of a combo-like finish with Dread Return and the much more common version playing at least a couple of lands which aims to be faster with additional draw spells in Faithless Looting, Careful Study and even Breakthrough (all in combination with Lion’s Eye Diamond and now starting to get used more often Lotus Petal).
First of all: Both can win without casting a single spell, for obvious reasons the manaless version is better positioned to do that.
But both still WANT to cast at least some spells.
Chalice of the Void is a great t1 play against the common version, shutting off: all their drawspells (expection Breakthrough x=1) and Street Wraith, thus slowing them down. It also stops Cabal Therapy (they can still use the flashback to generate Zombies) and Putrid Imp. Against manaless its way worse, just shutting of Cabal Therapy & Gitaxian Probe. Some lists do play up to 8 0-costed creature to let them die instantly and trigger Bridge from Below which would be stopped, so its fair to put it on 0.
Sphere of Resistance / Thorn of Amethyst / Trinisphere will prevent the manaless version “completely” from resolving spells (some list do play Dryad Arbor) and often enough hinder the land-version as that is commonly playing between 12-14 lands. If you’re on the play you shut down their most broken starts (Land, Lion’s Eye Diamond, Breakthrough, hold priority to discard dredgers + Faithless Looting, dredge 4 time, flashback Faithless Looting, dredge 2 more times, good game). On the draw they quite often are able to find a second land and can easily win playing 1 spell per turn.
Umezawa’s Jitte, while slow, can easily spell game over for them. First step is to kill a creature of your own (Eldrazi Mimic f.e.) to remove all their Bridge from Below, after that (or if they don’t have any yet) you can use the counters to kill Ichorid/Narcamoeba making it impossible for them to win.
Against the manaless version always save 1 counter on the Jitte if possible, you don’t want to remove the last one to kill a Ichorid or Nethershadow only to have them respond with a Phantasmagorian, discarding 3 Bridge from Below to get 3 Zombies thus enabling their flashback of Dread Return !
[cards]Warping Wail is way to counter said Dread Return or get rid of Ichorid forever, but this is the matchup in which the 3rd mode is FANTASTIC. Make an Eldrazi Spawn, maybe block some attacker, sacrifice it to remove their Bridge from Below !
Endless One can be cast as a 0/0 for the same effect.
Phyrexian Revoker should name Lion’s Eye Diamond or if you follow it up with a Chalice for 0 you should name [cards]Street Wraith. Against the manaless version name Street Wraith if they didn’t had the chance to use it yet or/otherwise Phantasmagorian.
After boarding expect the mana-version to try to be faster (Lotus Petal) or play some form of anti-hate (Ingot Chewer, Abrupt Decay). Some also play no Dread Return maindeck but side them in.
The manaless version is commonly played fearless (you land a hate, they lose), versions featuring Dryad Arbor might have some artifact/enchantment removal and some “blue” versions (recognizable when they play Whirlpool Rider maindeck) board into Force of Will and Disrupting Shoal.
Depending on your maindeck you’re already in quite a good position as you have many ways to get rid of Bridge from Below which is their scariest card followed by Dread Return which again, you have a decent set up for. However a splash might make the matchup even easier:
White offers Containment Priest and Rest in Peace who speak for themselves.
Blue has Eldrazi Skyspawner, yet another way to have a spawn to sacrifice.
Neither green nor red nor black offer significant cards.
Bad cards: Manaless: Chalice of the Void. Thought-Knot Seer is also lackluster but blocks Ichorid well. Some acceleration might be to slow (Talisman) as they’re actually pretty much a turn 3 deck.
Mana version: Sphere/Thorn on the draw are lackluster in at least 50% of the games. Thought-Knot Seer again just to block Ichorids, but you don’t need them.

Painter – favors them
Painter’s Servant colors all your colorless creatures, resulting in a [cards]Grindstone activation to mill you out. Surrounded by tutors (Imperial Recruiter, Enlightened Tutor), protection (Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast after the Painter’s Servant is on blue) and their own lock pieces (Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Ensnaring Bridge).
Yes, this matchup is ugly.
They have the potential to play a turn 1 Bloodmoon/Magus which more often than not will win them the game. Even a turn 1 Painter’s Servant is devastating as now our cards are no longer colorless, a condition required to make Eye of Ugin / Eldrazi Temple work properly.
And even if we establish some board they can drop an Ensnaring Bridge and hide under it.
Chalice of the Void x=1 will stop their Grindstone however, it also protects itself from their blasts even if it gets colored blue. However you won’t win the game instantly as they can tutor up a Jaya Ballard, Taskmage to get rid of the Chalice of the Void or hide behind the Ensnaring Bridge and have some planeswalker (Koth of the Hammer, Chandra) to kill you.
Lists playing multiple Wastes might stand a better chance as you lessen the impact of their Bloodmoon and if they fail to find a Ensnaring Bridge in time you can race them while they try to find their Jaya. If they already dropped their Grindstone your chances to win the race lessens by a lot.
Dismember and Warping Wail (as long as you can still cast it) are good to kill a Painter’s Servant, the first is also an out to Magus of the Moon. Umezawa’s Jitte is another possible out.
I actually lack some experience in the matchup, so I’m all ears for more suggestions on how to beat them besides trying to be lucky and race.
You can still play some of your creatures (Eldrazi Mimic, Endless One, Matter Reshaper) and can try to build a board before destroying their Ensnaring Bridge and attack for the win.
If you play Ratchet Bomb do definitly want to bring them in as their most problematic permanents cost all 3.
White gives us Disenchant.
Blacks Wasteland Strangler as a good way (if castable) to kill Painter’s Servant but he ain’t gonna kill a Magus of the Moon unless you can cast him with a Talisman or Mox Diamond (they do play Simian Spirit Guide to turn him on though).
Blue offers Eldrazi Skyspawner to come down early, carry Jitte and gives you a one shot colorless versus Bloodmoon.
Green has Krosan Grip and World Breaker (with Elvish Spirit Guide an out to Bloodmoon).
Red can try to win with creatures which are still castable under the effect of Bloodmoon before the Ensnaring Bridge comes down.
If you play [cards]Spartial Contortion, this is the deck you want them in for. They can even kill a Magus of the Moon if you float the mana in response to them casting it, then let it resolve, kill it and move on to smash them.

Burn – favors them
As all their cards are cheap Sphere of Resistance / Thorn of Amethyst are pretty medium. Chalice of the Void is decent but far from game over. Compared to other matchups x=2 is actually where you want to be as it stops Price of Progress, Searing Blaze / Searing Blood and after boarding Smash to Smithereens or Destructive Revelry.
The good part of the matchup is, that Eidolon of the Great Reveldoesn’t do too much and we have enough creatures to block Goblin Guides & Monastery Swiftspear.
The bad part is, that won’t matter to much as Ancient Tomb will do some work for them and Price of Progress can be a total blowout.
If you play lot of Wastes you have a better chance, same is true when you’re playing Mox Diamond or some Talisman. Try to not play more lands than necessary, but do play all those you actually need, it doesn’t help to be total frightened of Price of Progress, thus not developing your board and die because you gave them to much time. Wasteland can target itself or another one of your lands to diminish damage taken from Price of Progress, this interaction will come up at some point so remember it.
An active Jitte can stabilize you sometimes. A good hand of some fast Thought-Knot Seers should be able to steal a game aswell.
After boarding expect artifact destruction, mostly costed 2 mana which makes the Chalice of the Void x=2 so great in this matchup. Some lists also include Ensnaring Bridge so you might want to hedge against that.
On our side, Leyline of Sanctity if you play can win you matchups, Price of Progress will still hurt but we’re able to deal with their creatures making the amount of spells doing damage quite low.
No color has good sideboard cards unless you go your way to play some lifegain cards in green or white just for this one matchup.
Bad cards: Phyrexian Revoker (only hits Grim Lavamancer), Cc6+ cards.
Its not that our cards are actively bad against them, we’re just not efficient enough and can’t stop them properly to win unless luck is a bit on our side and they flood out and even if they do they could get lucky to draw 2 Price of Progress and a Fireblast.


Jund
The Jund matchup is very similar to the Shardless BUG one, here they switch the the more controlling blue cards (Ancestral Vision, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Baleful Strix) and replace them with more aggressive red cards (Lightning Bolt, Bloodbraid Elf) a lot of decks (though not all) also play Punishing Fire.
All in all this matchup is way better for us as their red cards don’t match up well. Lightning Bolt is yet another card getting caught by Chalice of the Void x=1. For Punishing Fire to kill our (important) creatures they need to cast it twice in a turn, a challenge under normal circumstances with some taxing effect nearly impossible.
Bloodbraid Elf and Lightning Bolt both don’t match up well against Thought-Knot Seer or Reality Smasher.
Despite all that don’t underestimate their deck. They still have access to Tarmogoyf nulling our attacks, Abrupt Decay to get rid of lock pieces or some of ours creatures as well as Lilliana of the Veil to attack our hand/board.
Don’t try to grind to much, while a lot of their cards are weak, you will end up with more dead draws while they can get some advantage between Planeswalkers, cascade and Sylvan Library.
To win you can either be quick and remove the first road block (Tarmogoyf) while smashing through their other creatures or go big, play enough Endless One (x=5+), Reality Smasher, Endbringer to just go through their Tarmogoyfs and still have a creature between their removal.
The Jund-sideboard can be pretty diverse, most commonly you can expect some artifact removal (Ancient Grudge), additional hard-removal (Maelstrom Pulse, Toxic Deluge), maybe some more ways to attack our lands (Life from the Loam in combination with Wasteland – or even Bloodmoon).
Sphere effects are a defensible cut in this matchup, Jund plays more creatures than spells and while it can be good against against plays like Bloodbraid Elf into Hymn to Tourach and is splendid versus repetitive Punishing Fire it won’t pull its weigh (and in addition: Punishing Fire is pretty medium against us anyway). However if you play enough creatures who gets killed by it you should have some plan how to deal with Punishing Fire.
If you’re playing Sphere of Resistance over Thorn of Amethyst this is definite one of the matchup you’re doing this for. They like to curve it and making [cards]Bloodbraid Elf costing 2 more to actually get something out of the cascade will definitely slow them down !
Chalice of the Void x=1 hits Deathrite Shaman, Lightning Bolt, Thoughtseize. The Lightning Bolt varies how effective it is, so on the draw it’s no blasphemy to cut the Chalice.
Warping Wail can kill Deathrite Shaman, Dark Confidant and counter Hymn to Tourach. This is a decent amount of value you can get out of it but you have to think about it some more.
On the draw you can counter a possible t1 Hymn to Tourach (great), kill Dark Confidant (great) or kill Deathrite Shaman even bevore they untap with it (great).
On the play on the other hand.. them playing a turn 2 Hymn to Tourach is way less effective if we already have a threat on board while they have nothing. Dark Confidant can be quite risky if we apply pressure early enough. It’s still decent but definitely less good and worth thinking about cutting it on the play.
Phyrexian Revoker is hard to evaluate in this matchup. He can disturb them by naming Deathrite Shaman or help out calling Lilliana of the Veil but dies to everything they do immediately. If you think your opponent is leaving in their burn effects you should board him out, otherwise he can stay.
The white splash offers you the usual board control with Eldrazi Displacer, Rest in Peace can also do some work by negating Tarmogoyf, Deathrite Shaman and possible Loam/Punishing Fire shenanigans.
Drowner of Hope is a beating in this matchup, protection from Liliana, boardcontrol and big beater is all you want in a single card in this matchup. The value of Eldrazi Skyspawner again depends on whether they leave in [cards]Punishing Fire or not but its worth mentioning that he harasses Liliana quite well (+ carries equipment).
Green’s Worldbreaker is bigger than everything they do and pretty much can’t be killed, but offers nothing else for his high cost. If you want to go big, bring him in but Jund is not reason to splash green for him.
Black’s Wasteland Strangler will be active more often than not and kill a huge part of their creatures, then again Bloodbraid Elf is weak anyway, [cards]Dark Confidant can be risky at times against us.. Bearer of Silence is another out to Tarmogoyf in case they don’t have a useless creature sitting around and again a good way to harass Liliana. Both cards should come in for this matchup but won’t be super amazing.
Red as usual against Tarmogoyf decks can swing the game around completely with a well timed Eldrazi Obligator. Apart from him Vile Aggregate allows you to trade with Tarmogoyf and kill Liliana through chumpblockers. If you’re playing Endless One he gets better as you now have 2 huge threats Abrupt Decay must answer.

Holly
03-15-2016, 02:35 PM
Blade-Decks
There are several different kind of blade decks but they do share a core and a overall strategy so I do lump them together while still addressing their differences.
One version is the UW(r). The splash is mostly for Pyroblast or if they’re actually trying to be more aggressive Lightning Bolt.
Next variation is Esperblade, the black offers some proactive plays (Thoughtseize), additional value (Baleful Strix) as well as smoothing out everything (Deathrite Shaman).
Some lists even go further, Deathblade are actually playing 4 colors, advancing the splash to green for Abrupt Decay.
Indifferent of their splash(es) the core of the deck resolves around Stoneforge Mystic, True-Name Nemesis supported by cantrips (Brainstorm, Ponder), efficient removal (Swords to Plowshares) & counterspells (Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, Force of Will) and various flex-slots used for value (Snapcaster Mage, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Vendilion Clique), catch-all-answers (Counterspell , Councils Judgement, Vindicate, Unexpectedly Absent) or bombs (Jace, the Mind Sculptor).
As every list varies strongly between midrange and control, depending on their use of those free slots, every match can play out completely different even if you were to play 3 matches against bladedecks in a row at a tournament.
Stoneforge Mystic into Batterskull is a huge problem, hard to stop for us and even harder to race. Our outs are a well timed Thought-Knot Seer, Warping Wail on the Stoneforge Mystic or Dismember for either the Mystic or the token while racing and Phyrexian Revoker on Stoneforge Mystic.
That doesn’t sound like a low amount of outs, but the problem is that our time window to use them properly is only 1 turn and some are unreliable (Revoker if not protected by Chalice of the Void x=1).
In addition to that True-Name Nemesis is a road block we can only beat as long as its not equipped by trampling over with Reality Smasher.
If they play black for Baleful Strix they have yet another good creature against us.
After blocking our path to victory they eventually will be able to grind us out thanks to Batterskull (or just equipping it to True-Name Nemesis) or chip in for 3 a turn with Vendilion Clique).
On the good side we have several cards harming them drastic as well. Chalice of the Void x=1 shuts off a huge part of their deck.
All their creatures (but the Batterskull) are small so that even a 4/4 body (to survive True-name Nemesis) is huge.
After boarding expect some artifact removal (Disenchant, Wear/Tear), maybe some catch-all (Engineered Explosives/Ratchet Bomb; so be careful of overextending Chalice of the Void & Endless One). Overall they don’t really get more dangerous after boarding except for some bombs they can play (Bloodmoon, Back to Basics) but not all lists do (if they play a lot of utility lands game 1 like Wasteland, Mishra’s Factory etc. its safe to assume they neglect to play non-basic-hate in their sideboard).
On our side, additional removal for Stoneforge Mystic is great. Equipment like Umezawa’s Jitte (kills their creatures, shrinks germ-tokens to allow Thought-Knot Seer to battle it) or Swords of Feast and Famine (protection from black!)
The white splash as always offers Eldrazi Displacer whose ability is great to kill germ tokens. Their other creatures you either don’t want to or can’t blink. The 3/3 body is decent until True-Name Nemesis hits the board.
Blue’s Eldrazi Skyspawner in combination with Umezawa’s Jitte is decent to get some counters on it or just fly over them while our Reality Smasher holds their Batterskull at bay at vice versa. As they do have fliers of their own the Skyspawner is neat but not great. Drowner of Hope can end the game by tapping the germ token for some turns, allowing us to quickly finish the game before we’re out of Eldrazi Spawns, unfortunately he again is useless against True-Name Nemesis.
Black offers the usual removal-creatures, Wasteland Strangler will rarely be turned on to get Stoneforge Mystic but is decent against Vendilion Clique or Baleful Strix. Bearer of Silence is in theory an out to True-Name Nemesis but will often eat a random Snapcaster Mage.
The most important card black gives you access too is Toxic Deluge as our only efficient out to True-Name-Nemesis !
Greens Worldbreaker can randomly destroy Batterskull or other equipment. The timing to hit Batterskull is difficult to manage as by the time you have 7 mana they often have 3 to return it to hand.
The red splash excels in this matchup. Pyroclasm or Kozileks Return manage to wipe their board leaving nothing but Batterskull and True-Name Nemesis which is decent but not awesome.
This however is the matchup in which Vile Aggregate shines. Not only does it block and attack into Batterskull decently, it having trample makes True-Name Nemesis a much smaller pain in the ass. It still won’t win you the game against the merfolk once its equipped, but will be able to do so at every point before that.
Bad cards for the matchup: Matter Reshaper matches up poorly against their creatures. Trinisphere and Thorn of Amethyst/Sphere of Resistanceare very dependent on their actual decklists. Against decks trying to smooth out their draws with additional cantrips and make a good use of Snapcaster Mage they’re good. Other lists are often fine actual just casting 1 spell per turn rendering those artifacts medium.

Other than that there are no really bad cards. Phyrexian Revoker has only a couple of medium targets but is impactful against Stoneforge Mystic that you tend to play it. If however you have enough other outs to a turn 2 Mystic its easily cuttable.


Goblin
The goblin matchup is pretty straight forwards. They try to “cheat” on mana via Aether Vial or Goblin Warchief while building up card advantage through Goblin Ringleader or Gempalm Incinerator. They get their beef through Goblin Chieftain or Goblin Piledriver and go wide thanks to Siege-Gang Commander or Krenko, Mob Boss. All this supported by Goblin Matron to tutor for those cards or various silverbullets.
They also play a little bit of mana denial, pretty much every list plays Wastelands, Rishadan Port isn’t uncommon to see and some lists even play Goblin Settler (and if they’re really mean they combo him with Kiki-Jiki Mirrorbreaker).
As everyone of their creatures gets beaten by a 3/3 (without external help) they will only ever beat us by said manadenial and going wide. We have more then enough creatures to trade with Goblin Piledriver so it’s very unlikely that we get aggro’d out. We still have to be careful, a turn 1 Goblin Lackey will likely connect if they’re on the play. From then they can steamroll us.
Some lists splash black which makes the game a little harder for us as Grenzo, Dungeon Warden can be quite big (though only uncommonly as big as our creatures) and while the ability on Earwig Squad isn’t to relevant his 5/3 body is pretty decent against us.
If we stabilize and survive into the midgame (turn 4-6) its just a matter of whether we can finish them off before they have time to make use of their card advantage and get wide.
Since their 1 drops are much worse on the draw this matchup is heavily dependent on who goes first. By turn 2 we commonly have 3 mana and are able to play any creature to block Goblin Lackey, which means they’ll be playing from behind the whole time.
Chalice of the Void is plain bad. On the play you might get a Aether Vial or if they lack Cavern of Souls a Goblin Lackey but that’s all you’ll ever get. Both of those cards rarely matter if drawn after turn 1/2 anyway. Trinisphere is bad for the same reasons, you’ll rarely have it turn 1 which means they will have a way to cheat on mana already. While it can stop their lategame swarm delaying your other plays will give them an opportunity to punish you.
Thorn of Amethyst is useless for obvious reasons. Sphere of Resistance... I am actually not quite convinced its bad. They’re manahungry and it will slow them down, but the same is true for us and I rather have another creature.
Warping Wail kills Goblin Lackey/Warren Instigator and.. well some other random 1/1s. Depending on how many ways you have to deal with a turn 1 Goblin Lackey if you’re on the draw you might want to leave some in. On the play you should have enough outs for that situation so they won’t be needed.
Phyrexian Revoker should be nearly always on Aether Vial, unless of course the game is already in an advanced state or they don’t have any. Other targets to name Krenko, Mob Boss, Siege-Gang Commander Goblin Sharpshooter and to a lesser extent Gempalm Incinerator or Kiki-Jiki Mirrorbreaker.
After boarding you can expect some artifact removal if they’ve seen/fear equipment from your side. Pyrokinesis or Dismember as additional removal (though Pyrokinesis doesn’t match up well against us).
Note: some more info concerning their removal. Tarfire and Pyrokinesis don’t match up well against us. Gempalm Incinerator does kill our smaller creatures easily while providing them card advantage but has problems getting Thought-Knot Seer or bigger creatures. Warren Weirding is something to keep in mind if they splash black.
Goblin Sharpshooter is the most interesting one, he will kill all our Eldrazi Mimic and Phyrexian Revoker (and some more depending on your splash). However what I want to point out, as I’ve seen it getting missed all too often, is that the Goblin Sharpshooter triggers for every creature dying, even if they die at the same time.
Example:
You attack with a 3/3 and a 4/4, the goblin player blocks your 3/3 with a 1/1 token and your 4/4 with a Goblin Ringleader), the result: 2 creature die, 2 untap-trigger are placed on the stack (even if he is already untapped). He now pings your 3/3, lets 1 untap-trigger resolve, pings it again (killing your 3/3, triggering the untap again). Now the Sharpshooter is tapped with 2 untap-triggers, he lets 1 resolve, pings your 4/4, lets the other resolve to kill your 4/4 untapping it yet again !
And now I have to add yet another small note as even though it’s a basic rule people tend to forget about it as it rarely matters.
New example:
Your 4/4 attacks and your opponent has 2 1/1 tokens and an untapped Goblin Sharpshooter.
He blocks with both tokens. If you don’t specify both tokens will die, creating 2 untap-triggers thus killing your 4/4. However you’re not obliged to actually kill both of his creatuers ! You can just chose to deal all 4 damage to 1 token. Result: Your 4/4 has 2 damage on him, but as only 1 creature died only 1 untap-trigger will be created making it impossible for the Goblin Sharpshooter to kill your guy.

Back to the topic of sideboard cards: Some lists also do include Bloodmoon.
On our side, additional removal is fine but remember that you can’t trade 1 for 1 all the time or you will lose. Spatial Consortion is a good swap for Warping Wail as you can additional creatures, but I’d never want both of them for example.
Umezawa’s Jitte can win games on its own.
The white splash doesn’t offer much. Eldrazi Displacer has a fine body but his board control is at its worst, they have to many creatures and most you don’t even want to blink. They don’t have a huge amount of removal so protection your creatures is only of some relevance. He’s definitely not bad but this is one of his worse matchups. If you play Containment Priest you can board them in to shut off their Aether Vial.
Blacks Wasteland Strangler won’t be active often enough and as a 3/2 vanilla is pretty bad. Bearer of Silence eats a random 1/1 thus not worth it. Toxic Deluge however is brilliant and will win you games and is even an out for a 2+ turns active Krenko, Mob Boss !
Blues Eldrazi Skyspawner isn’t needed to get Umezawa’s Jitte active, nonetheless it’s a good card for this matchup as it provides 2 blockers, specially relevant for an early Goblin Lackey into removal. Remember that he’s not actually blue thus can block Goblin Piledriver ! Drowner of Hope, yet another big beater. Neat but not needed.
Greens Worldbreaker..by the time he comes online the ability to destroy a land or Aether Vial is rather mood, however it can be an out to Bloodmoon (in combination with Elvish Spirit Guide). The body.. yeah well he’ll get chumped.
Red again excels here. Pyroclasm/Kozileks Return will wipe their board (at least nearly) completely. Vile Aggregate is another good beater thanks to coming online early and having the very relevant trample.

Dice_Box
03-15-2016, 02:41 PM
Thank you for this Holly and welcome to the DTB section.

I moved the old thread to the Old Threads sub. A short lived thread but a well earned rest.

Eldariel
03-15-2016, 03:18 PM
Looks good thus far. Few more cards that might warrant mentions: Rishadan Port, Grim Monolith, Lotus Petal.

Rishadan Port is a land that's potentially very powerful especially in the slightly slower variants with 6-drops and perhaps even hopes of activating Eye of Ugin in control match-ups. The superaggressive builds are obviously not interested but like goblins, the builds with more 5-6 drops are in the market for a land that can trade for the opponent's mana/hold the opponent's colors off or whatever while getting their lands in play. It can also "trade" taps with an opposing Rishadan Port opening up your mana on the following turn to make your plays. It's also not horrid in the mirror either. I'd generally be more inclined to play Rishadan Ports than Ghost Quarters generally (though Quarter is often better vs. Lands), and there are lists where I posit it may well be correct to play Ports over Wastes.

For acceleration, I think Lotus Petal (for multisplash lists over Spirit Guides) and Grim Monolith (for the slightly higher curve lists) are potentially interesting. Lotus Petal has been in one decently finishing list just recently: its downsides compared to Spirit Guides (counterable, clashes with Chalice at 0) are generally fairly minor but it doesn't have that many upsides unless you want specific colors of mana. Grim Monolith is mostly absent but potentially more interesting: its being untappable can come up a fair bit in slower match-ups, particularly against Rishadan Ports (Lands/D&T/Goblins/etc.). It doesn't accelerate to 2 mana but it goes from 2 to 3 (relatively useless) or more interestingly, 2 to 5-6 on the following turn, or in decks with 3-drops they want to drop soon such as lists with Trinisphere.


Also, on weaknesses I'd lists non-basic hate in general over just Blood Moon. Price of Progress is already being sideboarded by some Delver-variants in addition to the obvious Burn and it's absolutely brutal vs. Eldrazi, and Back to Basics sees sporadic play and does a number on the manabase.

Captain Hammer
03-15-2016, 03:58 PM
Just wanted to include a link to my primer dedicated to Midrange Eldrazi variants that play a Cloudpost manabase...

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30484-Primer-Tentacle-Smash-–-Eldrazi-Aggro-Feat-10-Post

Cloudpost lists being posted here would just derail this thread's discussion so figure it would help to link to a thread where they would be appropriate to discuss.

CutthroatCasual
03-15-2016, 05:00 PM
Is this the fastest New Development-to-DTB in history?

Cire
03-15-2016, 05:16 PM
It's also probably the only DTB with no actual set list or widely agreed upon color combination :tongue:

ZEROorDIE
03-15-2016, 05:27 PM
It's also probably the only DTB with no actual set list or widely agreed upon color combination :tongue:

Really, other than a couple rogue brewers, it's a colorless deck and the list is pretty set outside of a few flex slots which should all be determined based on your meta.

Edit: Great job on the primer Holly! Would you mind updating the spirit guide portion with a brief point on how great they are against Daze? It's a point worth noting.

Admiral_Arzar
03-15-2016, 05:29 PM
Oh snap we DTB now. All hail our noodly Eldrazi overlords!

But yeah, hopefully we will have enough tournament results soon to provide sample decklists for each color splash. I would say there's enough results out there for the colorless one to get a pretty good idea of what's going on, but the color splashes are more in their infancy (and it remains to see if any of them will be good enough to make the cut).

josch6083
03-15-2016, 06:29 PM
I´m just thinking about what has been said I few comments ago. Do we really need Thorn of amethyst?

Today I tried it against maverick, elves and eldrazi-mirror. Obviously they were not missed. I think, they are good in matchups we are already favored?! I want to play them for example against Miracles, TES/ANT. But we got chalice, warping wail, revoker, thought knot seer.
Is it really that good against S&T. They got Cities and Ancient tomb too. So the mana to cast a S&T shouldnt be that much of a problem. Of course you could slow them down, but isnt it enough to play the named cards (revoker TKS ...) and wastelands to destroy their sollands? And in match 2 you can put your SB-hate in.
I could imagine a build with 2-3 Sphere of resistence in my SB. They are good against ANT/TES/Miracles but they are also great against bad matchups like elves/maverick/DNT. of course they got Vial, but therefor we got needle or revoker.

Sphere of R. also slows us down, but its way more flexible and we dont care that much about mana like UR delver (18 lands), jeskai delver (19 lands), Grixis delver (18lands), Elves (18 lands) and I did not count the fetchlands you have to subtract => these are all decks that count on cheap creatures. and we cant handle these creatures with thorns. and their lands can be handled by wasteland.
maybe youcould even try a tanglewire!?

The question is what to play instead of thorns? I personally often miss cards like all is dust. it helps against a lot of bad situations (planeswalker control, elves flooded board ...)
And maybe we could use some more mana accelleration like SSG ...

would appreciate some help here.

Juice11
03-15-2016, 09:15 PM
Is this really already a DTB? Seems kind of early to move it up so quickly. I mean it is heavily represented online, but I don't see it in paper much. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to see it around and win some tournaments (not just 5-0 MTGO leagues) before we put it in the DTB section.

CutthroatCasual
03-15-2016, 09:15 PM
Is this really already a DTB? Seems kind of early to move it up so quickly. I mean it is heavily represented online, but I don't see it in paper much. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to see it around and win some tournaments (not just 5-0 MTGO leagues) before we put it in the DTB section.

It's the moderation cabal trying to get more people to pack SB cards for it sooner so it'll get hated out of the meta faster :cool:

Tokugawa
03-15-2016, 10:12 PM
Is this really already a DTB? Seems kind of early to move it up so quickly. I mean it is heavily represented online, but I don't see it in paper much. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to see it around and win some tournaments (not just 5-0 MTGO leagues) before we put it in the DTB section.

You WILL see it much, later.

Many players are just waiting April Banning in modern, which would bring significant prices fall of some key cards of this deck.

And it seized the title of "The budget DTB" from DnT.

Juice11
03-15-2016, 10:52 PM
You WILL see it much, later.

Many players are just waiting April Banning in modern, which would bring significant prices fall of some key cards of this deck.

And it seized the title of "The budget DTB" from DnT.

If I will see it later, then why not just wait till later to bump it up? Most of the cards in the deck will not drop in price much, at least until they rotate out of standard. Chalice won't drop until it's reprinted. City of traitors will never fall to a reasonable price again.

To be clear, I like the deck. I like stompy decks. I think it is a good presence in the Legacy metagame. However, this is hardly an established deck let alone a deck to beat...

grim confident
03-15-2016, 10:58 PM
You WILL see it much, later.

Many players are just waiting April Banning in modern, which would bring significant prices fall of some key cards of this deck.

And it seized the title of "The budget DTB" from DnT.

But eldrazi will not become stronger in the future. Future sets will not include them.:frown::frown::frown:

CutthroatCasual
03-15-2016, 11:28 PM
To be clear, I like the deck. I like stompy decks. I think it is a good presence in the Legacy metagame. However, this is hardly an established deck let alone a deck to beat...

DTB is not strictly based off results. It's also based off popularity, and this is the second most-played deck in Legacy right now. Those numbers will fall once it gets hated out and people start adapting.

Juice11
03-15-2016, 11:37 PM
DTB is not strictly based off results. It's based off as well popularity, and this is the second most-played deck in Legacy right now. Those numbers will fall once it gets hated out and people start adapting.

Maybe online where it is 2nd to miracles. In paper events there are about 9 more popular decks than eldrazi over the last 2 months according to MTGtop8. Regardless, I didn't realize popularity made a DTB. If that is the criteria, including the online metagame, then that's perfectly fine. Just doesn't make sense to me I guess.

Edit: read the DTB philosophy, Eldrazi definitely qualifies. I guess when I think of the phrase Deck to Beat, I am thinking of the best/tier 1 decks that have been proven and put up results. Just didn't realize that was the criteria used, seems a bit arbitrary. Not to mention D&T is still a DTB, it is 4th on the council with 18 top 8s in the past 30 days.

Dice_Box
03-15-2016, 11:47 PM
The deck ticked all the boxes. I do not move decks into this forum on a whim. Read the update I posted here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5460-DTBF-Philosophy-amp-Deck-Selection&p=938457&viewfull=1#post938457) or message me if you have any other questions.


Is this the fastest New Development-to-DTB in history?
Yes, Jund is the next fastest.

Barook
03-16-2016, 02:04 AM
Was it really necessary to kill the old thread and thus, all current discussion? I would also cut the "/Shops" part from the title - barely anybody has called the deck Shops before. "Eldrazi Stompy" is the most common name.

Dice_Box
03-16-2016, 05:34 AM
It's unproductive to have two threads on the same topic active. This is the new home for discussion to migrate to.

Delvis
03-16-2016, 09:59 AM
We did it! Started from the bottom, now we here. High fives all around for breaking the deck.

Now that we're officially a DTB, I think it's past time we start figuring out how other decks are going to be attacking us, and prepare for that accordingly. I mentioned a bit of this on the last thread. World Breaker and All is Dust seem like the best options, although I'm concerned that All is Dust can't touch a Bridge. Are there any other options?

If not, World Breaker becomes a de facto inclusion in most decks, I think. Now, including a green card means we'll need more green sources to support it. This raises two questions: 1, how many sources are needed, and 2, what sources do we use? Painlands leap immediately to mind - but that begs a second color. So which is the second color? Do we even bother with one?

Personally I believe these two lines of thought lead naturally to Barook's list or something like it, so that's what I'll probably be gravitating towards. Karakas is already in the deck (well, mine, anyway), and Eldrazi Displacer is an incredibly powerful card, so GW looks like the strongest combination right off the bat.

I could also see a GB version with Urborgs and guys like Wasteland Strangler in a more creature-heavy metagame. GB would have the added advantage of being able to pay actual black mana for Dismembers and could play a card like Leyline of the Void with more confidence, knowing it could be hardcast. This version looks strong, too.

I've seen people attempting RG versions with Grove of the Burnwillows and Punishing Fire, but I sort of don't get Punishing Fire in this deck. It doesn't seem like it's what you really want to be doing. I suppose the RG version would give you some extra game against Grixis Delver, but Punishing Fire feels kinda bad against a Goyf. I also don't think the Grixis Delver matchup needs any help.

Quick question for those of you testing the green versions, have any of you tried Awakening Zone or From Beyond? They don't get to use Temples or Eyes for double mana, but they would go a long way to offsetting Wastelands and Blood Moons.

Cire
03-16-2016, 11:03 AM
Really, other than a couple rogue brewers, it's a colorless deck and the list is pretty set outside of a few flex slots which should all be determined based on your meta.
.

I don't know if the stock list is colorless though: For example, it is widely thought that worldbreaker is the correct choice. At the same time their is (or was?) debate between the percentage of of worldbreaker/endbringer you play MD, and if you play Worldbreaker - if you should play any conduits of ruin. I think there is still great variety between the builds. We are also still debating how many city/eyes/and what, if any, accel to run.

Edit: From the previous thread I threw out this list which I think covers all the accepted cards and choices:

6-8 Sol Lands (Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors/Crystal Vein)
0- 8 Eldrazi Lands (Eldrazi Temple/Eye of Ugin)*
4 Cavern of Souls
5-11 Other Lands (Most common additional lands are Wasteland, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Mishra's Factory)
0-8 Mana Accel (Mox Diamond, Mana Rocks, Spirit Guides, Grim Monolith, Lotus Petal)*
4 Chalice of the Void
3-4 Other Lock Pieces (Trinisphere/Thorn of Amethyst)
4-8 "Removal" (Warping Wail/Jitte/Dismember/All is Dust)**
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
0-4 Legendary Creature Control (Endbringer/Karakas)***
0-4 Phyrexian Revoker
0-8 "Small Eldrazi Option" (Eldrazi Mimic/Endless One)
0-6 "Mid Size Option" (Matter Reshaper/Metamorph)
0-3 "White Splash Option (Eldrazi Displacer)
0-2 "Problematic non-creature permanent removal Option" (World Breaker/Ugin/Eldrazi Titans)***
*Options between Eldrazi Lands and Mana Accel is about whether to focus on increasing Chalice @ 1 turn 1 chances or having a larger chance for TKS turn 2. The two options are inherently at odds. Some builds may try running a full set of both, but this may make the deck's threat count too low.
** If you have 2 or more dismembers you should think about include jitte so as to have some life gain.
*** In these two options are the "Top End" of the deck - it is recommended that you run at least 2-3 "Top End Cards". 4 may be too much. Additionally Conduit of Ruin may replace 1-2 Worldbreaker if you are running 2-3.

Edit 2: I believe "Midsize option" (I.e. running Reshaper) to be the wrong choice - but I do like the idea of finding space for 1-2 Metamorph in a GW shell.

iostream
03-16-2016, 11:30 AM
I don't know if the stock list is colorless though: For example, it is widely thought that worldbreaker is the correct choice. At the same time their is (or was?) debate between the percentage of of worldbreaker/endbringer you play MD, and if you play Worldbreaker - if you should play any conduits of ruin. I think there is still great variety between the builds. We are also still debating how many city/eyes/and what, if any, accel to run.The stock list is definitely colorless. Random decklists posted here aren't data points; the decks that post results in paper tournaments and on Magic Online are what matter.

For instance, if you just look at mtggoldfish data, you will find that by far the most successful build of the deck is (a) colorless, (b) runs 4 Matter Reshaper, (c) doesn't run World Breaker.

My suggestion if Bridge, Moat, etc. become popular is not to play World Breaker or whatever, but rather to just play a different deck. Eldrazi is really a metagame deck, so if people start to hate it out severely, put this thing down. Another thing is that the matchups against things like Lands and 4-Color Loam are not good, so if the meta gravitates towards these big fair decks where Chalice is bad, you also need to put this thing down. Eldrazi was build to prey on a meta dominated by Miracles, Storm, and Delver (i.e. the pre-OGW meta).

Dice_Box
03-16-2016, 11:43 AM
Chalice is strong against Lands, you just put it on Two and then pressure us. When can of course still crop rotate, but when you leave me with a choice of "Fetch Maze or die" then Rotation is only so useful.

Admiral_Arzar
03-16-2016, 12:24 PM
My suggestion if Bridge, Moat, etc. become popular is not to play World Breaker or whatever, but rather to just play a different deck. Eldrazi is really a metagame deck, so if people start to hate it out severely, put this thing down. Another thing is that the matchups against things like Lands and 4-Color Loam are not good, so if the meta gravitates towards these big fair decks where Chalice is bad, you also need to put this thing down. Eldrazi was build to prey on a meta dominated by Miracles, Storm, and Delver (i.e. the pre-OGW meta).

I think it is unlikely that Bridge, Moat, Humility, Moon etc. become common enough to actually shut this deck out of the meta. Legacy players are generally too set in their ways to adjust much to the meta and most people that play cantrip cartel decks aren't going to be willing to switch to the prison strategies that best use those cards. Miracles playing a one-of Moat in the board isn't particularly relevant in the grand scheme of things. If people show up with Imperial Painter or Moat Stompy or Stax that is relevant but those decks are rare, and even if people have the cards many don't like playing those strategies. I also think a more resilient green splash is worth developing if that ever becomes a problem. Switching decks is certainly the easiest way to solve the problem but I'm not sure it will even be necessary if the splash version is perfected to a reasonable extent.

Delvis
03-16-2016, 01:19 PM
I'm going to do a little bit of tinkering in-thread because it'll look suspicious if I'm working with a notebook at work.

My goal here is to brew up a very slight GW splash. Unfortunately, this means cutting Wasteland. I dislike this, but I think the deck may ultimately be better off.

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Dismember
2 Warping Wail

4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Matter Reshaper
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 World Breaker
1 Conduit of Ruin

3 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Talisman of Unity

3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Karakas
3 Brushland

//Sideboard
2 Winter Orb
1 ____________
3 Pithing Needle
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Karakas

Talisman over Mox Diamond seems weird, but Talisman does a better job protecting against Wasteland and Blood Moon.

Edit: after some consideration, I don't think I want Tsabo's Web. It comes in for matchups where I probably want Karakas, and I don't want to shut down my own Karakas. So I have an empty slot for Lands hate. Could be either a third Winter Orb or a third Faerie Macabre, or another card I haven't considered. Open to suggestions.

What do you guys think of this list? I kind of like it. I'm torn between 3/3 City/Brushland and 2/4. The colored mana source counts are based on this article (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/). Sideboard is a draft, but without Wasteland, I want as many weapons as I can reasonably afford against Lands.

Edit to add:

My suggestion if Bridge, Moat, etc. become popular is not to play World Breaker or whatever, but rather to just play a different deck. Eldrazi is really a metagame deck, so if people start to hate it out severely, put this thing down. Another thing is that the matchups against things like Lands and 4-Color Loam are not good, so if the meta gravitates towards these big fair decks where Chalice is bad, you also need to put this thing down. Eldrazi was build to prey on a meta dominated by Miracles, Storm, and Delver (i.e. the pre-OGW meta).

I agree that Eldrazi is a metagame deck, but disagree that it cannot adapt to a different meta. "Play a different deck" is the conclusion you come to after you've tested and eliminated other options, but it doesn't sound like you've done that yet, and I don't think the community has, either. Considering the success Barook has had with his GW build, I think it's a mistake to assume the World Breaker build is a nonstarter.

I think people have come to the conclusion that the colorless deck can't beat something like Moat or Moon or Bridge, and the GW build is one step ahead of that plan while still retaining the core strength the purely colorless build has. In this way, the GW build is the next level of the Eldrazi deck. Maybe everyone starts playing 4x Wasteland main and the green decks play maindeck LFTL, well in that world you're right, I wouldn't want to be playing Eldrazi. But that's not the current world. People are adjusting to the deck by jamming 1-2 silver bullets in their sideboard, and World Breaker answers those silver bullets. It's worth testing.

Barook
03-16-2016, 02:17 PM
For instance, if you just look at mtggoldfish data, you will find that by far the most successful build of the deck is (a) colorless, (b) runs 4 Matter Reshaper, (c) doesn't run World Breaker.
Most people also follow a herd mentality and just take whatever works. There's no guarantee that a splash build couldn't become the better version once all kinks are worked out.

@Delvis: Do NOT run Matter Reshaper before you run a full playet of Displacer. Full stop. It is that good in many match-ups.

Also, after playing with Talisman for a while, I think it's a trap. Yes, tri-mana color fixing is nice, especially under a Blood Moon, but the lost speed compared to other "free" accelerants will ultimatively bite you. I had to learn the hard way with my original approach that speed is king.

I can't form a solid opinion on my current Mox/Lotus Petal yet (so far, it looks pretty good), but I think dipping deep enough into white to run non-Eldrazi SB hate is worth it. RiP is an absolute bomb and so is Containment Priest - both could justify going deep with white. My SFM package is going to playtested more starting this weekend to figure out if it's good enough, too.

I also wouldn't go overboard with the Lands hate. It's a bad match-up and there's only so much you can do before neglecting other important match-ups.

Delvis
03-16-2016, 02:48 PM
Also, after playing with Talisman for a while, I think it's a trap. Yes, tri-mana color fixing is nice, especially under a Blood Moon, but the lost speed compared to other "free" accelerants will ultimatively bite you. I had to learn the hard way with my original approach that speed is king.

My concern is that playing World Breaker and Conduit pushes you towards being more mana-hungry, thus making you weaker to Wastelands. Mox does basically nothing to protect you from Wasteland, because you have to pitch a land to play it so you're not actually profiting mana, and in some cases you're actually losing on mana because you have to pitch something like Ancient Tomb or Eldrazi Temple.

If Talisman is bad, as you say, I would probably just replace it with a 4th ESG and a Gemstone Caverns. I may do this anyway, because that would let me play a Null Rod in that last slot. It's just weird to me. It seems like we should be playing a mana base that provides some resiliency against Blood Moon, since we're playing the GW build to gain resiliency against lock cards like that.

Barook
03-16-2016, 03:05 PM
If Talisman is bad, as you say, I would probably just replace it with a 4th ESG and a Gemstone Caverns. I may do this anyway, because that would let me play a Null Rod in that last slot. It's just weird to me. It seems like we should be playing a mana base that provides some resiliency against Blood Moon, since we're playing the GW build to gain resiliency against lock cards like that.
Each to their own. I'm pretty deep in white right now, so I need an ample amount of actual white sources to support my white SB bombs. Otherwise, I would probably run ESG in the Lotus Petal spots since the deck has actual ways to hardcast it. You certainly have a point about Mox. For this very reason, I would never run more than two copies max.

Be aware that you're cutting another two white sources this way which will cut into the effectiveness of Displacer. And you do want to run a full playset of it.

darkgh0st
03-16-2016, 04:09 PM
For those not running or minimally running artifact abilities, i recommend some Null Rods as a SB card.

Poron
03-17-2016, 09:22 AM
being mana not an issue here if you don't play Endbringer/Displacer, Damping Matrix so much better

Delvis
03-17-2016, 09:27 AM
being mana not an issue here if you don't play Endbringer/Displacer, Damping Matrix so much better

The key difference being that Null Rod shuts down mana abilities, which is huge. Null Rod also can be played turn 1 off of Tomb or City, or with a Spirit Guide of some kind. This means Null Rod is live against Storm and Dredge, where Damping Matrix is not.

Polishguy00
03-17-2016, 10:15 AM
I've been playing a white/colorless (Whidrazi) build since the deck was beginning to be broken. I have a solid run of several 3-2s and a 4-1 in leagues so far which makes this feel close. I don't have a 2-3 or worse yet. I never feel very behind in many match-ups. Shardless isn't great and Reanimator always seems to go off before I can get going, but it has been a fun deck to play. I guess it's natural for me to enjoy something that does well against Miracles since I am not fond of that strategy. The problem that I am running into is that the deck feels like a Modern deck with Legacy power. What I mean is that it seems like the success in any particular tourney is match-up dependent and we are playing it in a format where the bombs against us can commonly be main deck (Opposing Watelands, for instance). A deck like Shardless BUG or Delver can sit down and be reasonably confident that their game plan can happen in any match. I don't find this to be as true for the Eldrazi Stompy deck, but I also find it true that the power level is high enough that any good pilot can get this thing to .500 and above (After all, I am, and I don't consider myself to be a top-notch player) and I am sure that it still will put up results because of that.

Adding white has added a lot of those catch-all answers to a lot of problems. I still haven't figured out the right amount of Warping Wails to have in the main deck and I am not totally sure on the mana base or the whole sideboard. I've only been back into the game for three years, so it's been fun to follow a deck from inception for the first time and playing big dudes in unfair time frames or for unfair costs is really dumb and fun. Anyway, if interested, this is what I am working with now:

Main:
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Eldrazi Mimic
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Endbringer
1 Void Winnower

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
2 Karakas
2 Plains

3 Talisman of Unity
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Warping Wail

SB:
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Disenchant
1 Containment Priest
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Thorn of Amethyst

I plan to add an Urborg and some Dismembers and a Metamorph for my next go-round. Mix up sideboard options again. Those Leylines used to be 2 Rest in Peace and 2 Oblivion Sowers I'm probably missing something to bring this together. I love World-Breaker, but I think I'd rather have the two mana option to destroy what it tends to destroy.

Barook
03-17-2016, 12:08 PM
Adding white has added a lot of those catch-all answers to a lot of problems. I still haven't figured out the right amount of Warping Wails to have in the main deck and I am not totally sure on the mana base or the whole sideboard. I've only been back into the game for three years, so it's been fun to follow a deck from inception for the first time and playing big dudes in unfair time frames or for unfair costs is really dumb and fun. Anyway, if interested, this is what I am working with now:

Main:
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Eldrazi Mimic
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Endbringer
1 Void Winnower

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
2 Karakas
2 Plains

3 Talisman of Unity
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Warping Wail

SB:
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Disenchant
1 Containment Priest
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Thorn of Amethyst

I plan to add an Urborg and some Dismembers and a Metamorph for my next go-round. Mix up sideboard options again. Those Leylines used to be 2 Rest in Peace and 2 Oblivion Sowers I'm probably missing something to bring this together. I love World-Breaker, but I think I'd rather have the two mana option to destroy what it tends to destroy.
You can't support RiP with only 7 white sources, even less with three being Talisman. That's why it probably didn't work for you. I also don't understand why you run a second Plains over a 4th Cavern.

Delvis
03-17-2016, 12:08 PM
@Polishguy, you may want to consider Ghost Quarter over Wasteland in that build. I know that sounds weird, but hear me out. We're not really playing Wasteland for mana denial, it's more of a tool to kill problem lands like Mutavault, Maze of Ith, Tabernacle, Dark Depths, etc. Playing Ghost Quarter would give you the ability to sort of have a pseudo-fetch for your basic Plains, so you can turn on your Disenchants while not really losing any utility.

This could also be an option for pure-colorless builds who want to play a single Wastes to fetch out with their Ghost Quarters in response to a Blood Moon or something. I'd be interested to hear others' opinions on this.

MGB
03-17-2016, 12:47 PM
Having "Shops" in the deck name is absolutely retarded. The reason you call any deck a "Shops" deck is because, um, Mishra's Workshop is the most important card in that deck. No deck should have "Shops" in the title unless it is specifically running that land, imho.

I don't know why this thread title wasn't just "[DTB] Eldrazi Stompy". Eldrazi Shops just sounds ridiculous.

Delvis
03-17-2016, 01:05 PM
Having "Shops" in the deck name is absolutely retarded. The reason you call any deck a "Shops" deck is because, um, Mishra's Workshop is the most important card in that deck. No deck should have "Shops" in the title unless it is specifically running that land, imho.

I don't know why this thread title wasn't just "[DTB] Eldrazi Stompy". Eldrazi Shops just sounds ridiculous.

I don't want to single you out, and I'm not talking specifically to you. I'm just quoting you so it's clear what I'm talking about.

All the people bitching about the thread title need to relax. Jeez. Talk about nitpicking.

Constructive criticism about the thread is good, so take a look at the primer and make suggestions if you want to help. But complaining that the title has an extra word in it is some serious Eternal-player elitism. There aren't any Workshops in this deck, true, but the lands we do play do a good imitation of it, and some builds play a combination of Phyrexian Revoker and equipment, which as I understand it brings it somewhat in line with how the Vintage Shops lists are built (just with Reality Smasher instead of Triskelion). But I'm not a Vintage player. And I don't think it would have mattered anyway; Holly could have titled it "Eldrazi Stompy" and there would probably be people complaining about it not being named "Colorless Eldrazi Stompy," and if Holly had named it that, there would probably be people complaining that their colored builds were being marginalized.

You want to know what a great title would have been? "My Tentacle Romance." :P But that's just my opinion and I'm well aware I'm alone on that one (sadly, as I think it's a terrific name).

So let's just be happy we made DTB in record time and keep improving the deck, eh?

keys
03-17-2016, 01:07 PM
i don't know why this thread title wasn't just "[dtb] eldrazi stompy". Eldrazi shops just sounds ridiculous.

qft

Dice_Box
03-17-2016, 01:12 PM
You want to know what a great title would have been? "My Tentacle Romance." :P But that's just my opinion and I'm well aware I'm alone on that one (sadly, as I think it's a terrific name).
Show of hands for who wants this, because I am really tempted to make it happen.

Polishguy00
03-17-2016, 01:16 PM
@Barook

Yeah, that is strictly better. EDIT: Plus, I just found the "why" on the 2nd Plains. I knew I had a reason and had forgotten it. I only own 3 Caverns online and have been too cheap to buy the 4th.

@Delvis

Ghost Quarter is a very interesting option. I dunno if I am sold on trying it immediately, but I'll certainly be riding this Eldrazi train out, so I am sure I'll be trying lots of different things.

wortwelt
03-17-2016, 01:22 PM
Personally, I'd love to call the deck Ramen Stompy, but oh well.

Did someone also watch Andrea Mengucci's videos on CFB (http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-mengucci-legacy-eldrazi-aggro/)? He's championing Mishra's Factory over Wasteland and I can see why. While having Wastelands, I actually didn't use them too often, particularly against Wasteland decks. I needed the mana. For now, I'm trying factories.

I'm also wondering if there is a bit more to be said about mulliganing, particularly vs. certain archetypes. I feel there is a lot to be gained from knowing how to mulligan well with this deck, and in testing, I had a few hands that I regarded borderline keeps that turned out great (especially with the scry). Do you have general rules for mulliganing?

Barook
03-17-2016, 01:34 PM
Personally, I'd love to call the deck Ramen Stompy, but oh well.

Did someone also watch Andrea Mengucci's videos on CFB (http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-mengucci-legacy-eldrazi-aggro/)? He's championing Mishra's Factory over Wasteland and I can see why. While having Wastelands, I actually didn't use them too often, particularly against Wasteland decks. I needed the mana. For now, I'm trying factories.

I'm also wondering if there is a bit more to be said about mulliganing, particularly vs. certain archetypes. I feel there is a lot to be gained from knowing how to mulligan well with this deck, and in testing, I had a few hands that I regarded borderline keeps that turned out great (especially with the scry). Do you have general rules for mulliganing?
Budget reasons aside, I had the same line of thought with my original GW build that you don't want to kill your own lands. Factory has some advantages over Wasteland, but Wasteland is also the better card in certain match-ups like the mirror or when you want to get of some annoying lands like Ports.



Show of hands for who wants this, because I am really tempted to make it happen.
Dear God, no. Don't turn from Dice_Box into a Dick_Box. :tongue:

GoblinTurkey
03-17-2016, 01:39 PM
Eldrazi Stompy

Lands
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
2x Crystal Vein
2x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Vesuva
4x Wasteland

Creatures
4x Eldrazi Mimic
2x Endbringer
4x Endless One
2x Oblivion Sower
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer

Instants
2x Dismember
1x Warping Wail

Sorcery
1x All is Dust

Artifacts
2x Chalice of the Void
2x Crucible of Worlds
2x Mox Diamond
2x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Umezawa's Jitte

Notes:
Crucible of Worlds - Really good since the deck dies to Wasteland. Also you can do your own Waste-lock if needed. Also very good with Mox Diamond, Crystal Vein, and City of Traitors.

Sensei's Divining Top - This deck suffers one of the big problems D&T suffers which is top decking. Every match I've drawn top I've felt that I have had a more efficient game. I'd recommend two, it's good if you draw it, but no huge deal if you don't. Also it gives you more keep-able hands.

All is Dust - I like the card and it can just blowout a late game. It also costs 2 less due Eye of Ugin.

Vesuva - This is really sweet. It's great in the mirror match, it's great when you're playing against decks that run Cavern of Souls. Also there are plenty of decks that run lands that this deck runs.

Sideboard
2x Dismember
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Karakas
2x Mindbreak Trap
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Warping Wail

This is my take. But try out Sensei's Divining Top. I have been greatly pleased by it.

Dice_Box
03-17-2016, 01:52 PM
Dear God, no. Don't turn from Dice_Box into a Dick_Box
You are killing all my fun.

A realistic point, I do not think Holly can change the title, I think I have to. So if there is to be a name change, he calls the shot's because he wrote the primer. If I am asked to change the title I will, but if not people will just have to accept things as they are.

Just to add, this does feel like a slightly under powered Shops deck. It's not as explosive, it's not quite as controlling but they do feel much the same. This is much closer to Shops for me then MUD is. While Shops is a deck named after Mishra's Workshop, it's a deck built around the concept of locking out mana while building a non symmetrical mana advantage for yourself. That is also how this deck plays.

So while the deck of course can not utilise Mishra's Workshop, the concept behind the decks that do is alive here. Now while I agree the name looks out of place, as a Shops enthusiast it does not feel out of place to me.

Holly
03-17-2016, 02:36 PM
Hey there,
I chose the name because I feared otherwise some people might lament about it, oh the irony.
However I don’t care about it so change it to just “Eldrazi Stompy” or Tentacle Love, Japanese Porn, Killer Eldrazis from outer Space (or blind eternities) or the name from some Lovecraft story, I could provide some ideas of those.
So yeah Dice_Box, please change the name to Eldrazi Stompy, thank you :)

I’d also enjoy some more feedback and what I could write/do better about the actual primer, not just its name :)


Anyway some good news: I couldn’t sleep last night so managed to write a bit more.

-Fixed some brainfarts (though there are still way more in the text, I’m terrible at proof reading, specially myself)
- Added Rishadan Port
- Added Lotus Petal
- Added the benefit of Ghostquarter as poor mans fetchland
- Added matchups for: Infect, Reanimator, Dredge, Burn, Painter

Admiral_Arzar
03-17-2016, 02:36 PM
Show of hands for who wants this, because I am really tempted to make it happen.

Pretty sure I could never contribute again to a thread that in any way references that band.

RhoxWarMonk
03-17-2016, 03:12 PM
Notes:
Crucible of Worlds - Really good since the deck dies to Wasteland. Also you can do your own Waste-lock if needed. Also very good with Mox Diamond, Crystal Vein, and City of Traitors.


I'm curious, where are you getting "this deck dies to wasteland" from? That's not been my experience at all, so I'm genuinely curious why you feel this way?

My biggest problems (by orders of magnitude) are how to deal with Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridges, without splashing a color for something like World Breaker. Those cards are a SERIOUS pain to deal with and all the "normal" options (Ratchet Bomb, All is dust, etc) are all very slow....

Really considering trying out O. Stone as an alternative.

Delvis
03-17-2016, 03:23 PM
Pretty sure I could never contribute again to a thread that in any way references that band.

Oh, come now. It's tongue-in-cheek, anyway. Just imagine it:

[DTB] My Tentacle Romance (Eldrazi Stompy)

-sheds tear- It's beautiful.

Anyway, I'm just playing around. Like I said, I'm painfully aware how alone I am in wanting to call it that. :P Sorry Dice_Box, I don't think there's enough interest to change it to MTR.

Regarding O-Stone, that's one that's been sitting in the back of my mind recently, too. That and Nevinyrral's Disk. Disk is faster than Ratchet Bomb off the top but is less surgical. Stone is quite expensive.

CutthroatCasual
03-17-2016, 03:24 PM
2x Chalice of the Void


If you're going to play Chalice in any deck, you want 4 of it. It's a terrible mid-late top deck.

GoblinTurkey
03-17-2016, 03:31 PM
I'm curious, where are you getting "this deck dies to wasteland" from? That's not been my experience at all, so I'm genuinely curious why you feel this way?

My biggest problems (by orders of magnitude) are how to deal with Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridges, without splashing a color for something like World Breaker. Those cards are a SERIOUS pain to deal with and all the "normal" options (Ratchet Bomb, All is dust, etc) are all very slow....

Really considering trying out O. Stone as an alternative.

I usually play Goblins and in my matchups, whenever I waste two of the Sol Lands, the Eldrazi deck has a hard time recovering. So being able to get back those lands later in the game has been working well when I test. Also I find that I personally have very bad mulligans, so I may just not be having the luck and speed other players have been getting!!

It's no lands = no spells mentality.

I do agree that Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridges are harder to deal with. I run them in my own sideboard for Goblins.

I like Oblivion Stone though! I'll try it out myself.

GoblinTurkey
03-17-2016, 03:33 PM
If you're going to play Chalice in any deck, you want 4 of it. It's a terrible mid-late top deck.

I've been feeling that as well. Thanks for the advice.

RhoxWarMonk
03-17-2016, 04:11 PM
Oh, come now. It's tongue-in-cheek, anyway. Just imagine it:

[DTB] My Tentacle Romance (Eldrazi Stompy)

-sheds tear- It's beautiful.

Anyway, I'm just playing around. Like I said, I'm painfully aware how alone I am in wanting to call it that. :P Sorry Dice_Box, I don't think there's enough interest to change it to MTR.

Regarding O-Stone, that's one that's been sitting in the back of my mind recently, too. That and Nevinyrral's Disk. Disk is faster than Ratchet Bomb off the top but is less surgical. Stone is quite expensive.

Nevinyrral's Disk is a good suggestion and can easily be pushed through with a blood moon already in play. I like this alternative, I think Ill try a couple of copies in my sideboard when I play again next.

You're absolutely right in that O Stone is quite expensive, so it wasn't my favorite choice to suggest (just the first thing that seemed to pop into my head). At that point, might just be better off playing All is Dust instead, at least it doesn't affect your side of the board.

I'll give Disk some love and see how it fairs, right now we really need a colorless way to remove those hate cards that will likely be coming up in droves as this deck gains popularity.

Rationalist
03-17-2016, 04:56 PM
Nevinyrral's Disk is a good suggestion and can easily be pushed through with a blood moon already in play. I like this alternative, I think Ill try a couple of copies in my sideboard when I play again next.

We're resorting to Nev Disk now? I look forward to hearing how it worked for you, but I'm a bit skeptical. At this point, how long before Eye of Doom (http://magiccards.info/c13/en/243.html) enters the discussion? At least is enters untapped and has a higher floor than Disk.

Captain Hammer
03-17-2016, 04:58 PM
Having "Shops" in the deck name is absolutely retarded. The reason you call any deck a "Shops" deck is because, um, Mishra's Workshop is the most important card in that deck. No deck should have "Shops" in the title unless it is specifically running that land, imho.

I don't know why this thread title wasn't just "[DTB] Eldrazi Stompy". Eldrazi Shops just sounds ridiculous.

Couldn't agree with you more. Eldrazi Shops doesn't make fit the deck at all. A.) It is a stompy deck running the classic Sol Land manabase ala the traditional Fairy Stompy, Angel Stompy, Dragon Stompy, Demon Stompy and Beast Stompy decks. B.) It doesn't even play Mishra's Workshop. C.) The name makes me picture a Chituchuli getting groceries.

Whoever came up with that nonsensical name and why is it being used in lieu. of just calling the deck what it is, Eldrazi Stompy.

RhoxWarMonk
03-17-2016, 05:28 PM
We're resorting to Nev Disk now? I look forward to hearing how it worked for you, but I'm a bit skeptical. At this point, how long before Eye of Doom (http://magiccards.info/c13/en/243.html) enters the discussion? At least is enters untapped and has a higher floor than Disk.

Honestly, I'm just looking for a credible way to get rid of Blood Moon and Bridges. All is Dust (so far) has been the best option I've tried but at 7 mana and having all your sol lands shut off, it's sometimes way too expensive.

Nev Disk probably isn't correct either but I'm not entirely sure what the best route to go is against these type of cards.

Cire
03-17-2016, 05:36 PM
Honestly, I'm just looking for a credible way to get rid of Blood Moon and Bridges. All is Dust (so far) has been the best option I've tried but at 7 mana and having all your sol lands shut off, it's sometimes way too expensive.

Nev Disk probably isn't correct either but I'm not entirely sure what the best route to go is against these type of cards.

All is Dust doesn't remove Bridge though

Eldariel
03-17-2016, 05:48 PM
Budget reasons aside, I had the same line of thought with my original GW build that you don't want to kill your own lands. Factory has some advantages over Wasteland, but Wasteland is also the better card in certain match-ups like the mirror or when you want to get of some annoying lands like Ports.

I actually quite like Ports of your own in that slot. Doesn't disrupt Lage which is certainly annoying, but it does turn off enemy mana while still allowing you to keep yours, opens up turns where enemy can't Port you and, as you said, you want the mana around anyways a fair bit of time but so it gives you a disruptive land that sticks with you for when you need the mana.

Admiral_Arzar
03-17-2016, 06:33 PM
All is Dust doesn't remove Bridge though

Ratchet Bomb does but it's slow. Honestly if Bridge becomes a big player in the meta this deck needs to splash green for World Breaker.

Crimhead
03-17-2016, 06:37 PM
The reason you call any deck a "Shops" deck is because, um, Mishra's Workshop is the most important card in that deck. No deck should have "Shops" in the title unless it is specifically running that land, imho.
I always thought the deck is called "Eldrazi Shops" because of Eye of Ugin, like Workshop, can (effectively) produce an obscene amount of mana, and like Worship the mana is restricted as to what can (effectively) cast. Also it's symbolic of the fact that (like it or not) this deck is a long awaited upgrade of the traditional Legacy Stomy shell.

Do you object to the Sage era Bubbling Muck decks having been called "Dark Tide"? Pox doesn't run Pox anymore. I think during ISD/RTR Standard there were graveyard decks being called " Dredge". Nothing out of the ordinary here.


Pretty sure I could never contribute again to a thread that...But you could still post in it. :tongue:

Holly
03-17-2016, 07:04 PM
I asked Dice_Box to change the name, so we can return to a useful discussion.

iostream
03-17-2016, 07:56 PM
Anyone have opinions about Brian DeMars' take on the splash? http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-mono-white-eldrazi/

I kind of like that he's keeping it nice and light, although I remain unconvinced that Displacer is worth screwing up the mana for.

rlesko
03-17-2016, 08:49 PM
Help me beat your deck. What are cards you eldrazi pilots don't like to face? What about specifically in the BGx decks?

Barook
03-17-2016, 09:06 PM
@ iostream: I've posted my thoughts on the list in the comment section, so I'll just copy&paste it to not type out the same line of thought twice:


I'm a big proponent of the white splash and been working on it (Wg version) for a while now. I'm glad that you realized the power of Displacer and run it as a 4-of, while other people still screw around with 3 copies max.

If you ran a full playset of Brushland in place of Adarkar Wastes, you could support 2x World Breaker in the Endbringer slot, since Breaker is arguably stronger than Bringer and can solve problematic cards. Between 4 Cavern and 4 Brushland, there should be enough green mana for it.

Aside from Displacer, RiP and Containment Priest are also very powerful SB bombs (I run 3 each in the SB). I have to admit that putting Priests main is a ballsy move, but I also know how the combo with Displacer simply wins games in certain match-ups.

7 white sources and 4 Cavern might be fine for Displacer, but 7 real white sources are not enough to cast Priest and RiP reliably. Too often, you will be stranded with your white bombs stranded in hand due to lack of white mana. Been there, done that. My latest list is on 11 (12) white sources to make it work:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/387406#online

One problem I see with the deck is its weakness in the mirror. You run neither Wasteland or Dismember. Endbringer and the Displacer/Priest combo are nice and all, but also very slow - too slow in most cases without further support.

iostream
03-17-2016, 09:53 PM
@ iostream: I've posted my thoughts on the list in the comment section, so I'll just copy&paste it to not type out the same line of thought twice:Do you feel like the Displacer shores up the bad matchups in a big way? In particular, how impactful is the Displacer in the following three matchups: Lands, 4c Loam, and fair Stoneforge Mystic decks like D+T or Maverick? I think the colorless version's biggest weaknesses are against these decks. All other tier 1-2 matchups seem sufficiently good/fixable with the colorless tools that I don't think it's worth splashing to improve them.

Barook
03-17-2016, 10:10 PM
Do you feel like the Displacer shores up the bad matchups in a big way? In particular, how impactful is the Displacer in the following three matchups: Lands, 4c Loam, and fair Stoneforge Mystic decks like D+T or Maverick? I think the colorless version's biggest weaknesses are against these decks. All other tier 1-2 matchups seem sufficiently good/fixable with the colorless tools that I don't think it's worth splashing to improve them.

Lands: MVP, since it can stop Marit Lage at instant speed, while Karakas has a good chance to get destroyed by Wasteland or tapped down by Port. Be aware Lands is still a bad match-up, even with Karakas and Displacer, just less shitty. Ports + Wasteland recursion are still bad news for the deck.
4c Loam: Can't comment on that due to lack of experience in the match, but I assume from my experience with Maverick that the Containment Priest/Displacer combo should also be relevant here IF you can stick both parts. Note that 4c Loam is much more removal-heavy than Maverick, so take that with a grain of salt.
Unless they can slap equipment on something like TNN: Displacer makes Stoneforge your bitch. Each activation unequips their stuff and it kills Batterskull tokens. I mentioned it already in the old thread, but Displacer is a MUST KILL/REVOKER IT ASAP card for D&T.
Also:
Infect also gets greatly improved by Displacer as it can single-handedly domiante the board and win the game
Displacer significantly improves the Sneak & Show match-up
It's also good vs Reanimator, but it depends a lot on what they're going to reanimate. Karakas is the stronger card out of both here, but they're still a strong package for them to deal with.
I'm very adamant about Displacer for good reason.

CutthroatCasual
03-17-2016, 11:51 PM
Help me beat your deck. What are cards you eldrazi pilots don't like to face? What about specifically in the BGx decks?

Pernicious Deed seems pretty reasonable. You'll often have 4+ mana to pop it, especially if DRS sticks and Eldrazi doesn't aggressively Wasteland you.

CutthroatCasual
03-17-2016, 11:52 PM
[/list]
4c Loam: Can't comment on that due to lack of experience in the match, but I assume from my experience with Maverick that the Containment Priest/Displacer combo should also be relevant here IF you can stick both parts. Note that 4c Loam is much more removal-heavy than Maverick, so take that with a grain of salt.


Loam isn't that huge of a GSZ deck compared to Maverick. Containment Priest is a w/e card to bring in against us, and turns on Pfires.

RhoxWarMonk
03-18-2016, 12:05 AM
Played Eldrazi tonight at the local shop and ended up going 3-0-1 (ID on last round, since I was paired down and we were both ready to hit the road).

I'll post my list and then talk a bit about the matchups I faced, overall was very pleased with the deck however my SB needs a ton of work. I still like the idea of a white or possibly G/W splash like Barook has been playing, to be honest I found Wasteland to be one of the most uninspiring cards today.


4 Eldrazi Mimic
2 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Trinisphere
1 Dismember
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Winter Orb
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Dismember
1 All is Dust
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Phyrexian Revoker


Beat Thopter 2-0, Storm 2-1 and Infect 2-1.

A few general comments...

Thought Jitte was amazing and probably the MVP of the night.
As I mentioned above, Wasteland was meh. Not ready to cut it but felt it was very underwhelming, though it did win me one game against storm. If I were to playtest the G/W version, I'd cut the wastelands before any other lands.
Never drew a Mishra's factory the entire night but would have loved to have seen one on a number of occasions.
Felt like I wanted more Sol lands but the only additional one I'd consider trying is Crystal Vein. Definitely wouldn't go to 4 Cities, a few games it was awkward and I needed to wasteland myself in order to keep playing lands.
I found the 2/2 Trinisphere and Thorns split to be quite good and I'll continue with that for the time being.
Was less than impressed with Warping Wail. Don't really like keeping 2 mana open, especially when you can't cheat it with a Temple. Found it awkward most of the night and didn't do much with it outside killing an infect creature which was nice. Really wish it was tribal Eldrazi though, it'd be so much better...
Was lucky one game to pull an Ensnaring Bridge from my opponents hand with a thought-knot seer - I still don't have a good answer for that as All In Dust doesn't do anything.
Felt like I would have really benefited from having spirit guides of some sort. Especially useful since I like to try and push out cards like Chalice first turn on the draw and sometimes Daze bites me :) More so than that though, I could get Chalice out first turn off an Eldrazi Temple or get a Trinisphere out first turn with sol land -- definitely something I'll playtest in the future.

Love some advice on the sideboard and/or general comments about the deck itself. Next time I playtest I'll be going down on Warping Wail and may consider moving Endbringers to the side. Unsure what I'm going to replace them with yet, a lot of possibilities but I think more low cc threats would be my general approach -- perhaps trying the Revokers main or maybe I can find room for 3 guides. A few times, even with being conservative I found I was running low on creatures and more spells are counterproductive to the prison pieces you want out.

Amon Amarth
03-18-2016, 04:12 AM
Here's what I'm thinking of playing:

Mana-25
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Mishra's Factory

Creatures-22
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer

Lock-8
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst

Removal-5
3 Warping Wail
2 Ratchet Bomb

SB-15
2 Winter Orb
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 All is Dust
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Trinisphere
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Null Rod

I like the MD quite a bit, might change up the removal with other stuff but I don't really like Dismember paired with Ancient Tomb. The SB is kinda random because I have no experience with the deck. Crucible seems awesome though with how vulnerable Eldrazi's manabase is to disruption.

Eldariel
03-18-2016, 04:36 AM
Help me beat your deck. What are cards you eldrazi pilots don't like to face? What about specifically in the BGx decks?

Fast removal that doesn't fold to Chalice, big creatures, and cards good in creature combat. Off the top of my head, that'd be stuff like Snuff Out, Toxic Deluge (though life is of course a very relevant resource against a deck with 5/5 Haste creatures), Tarmogoyf, Gurmag Angler, even Tombstalker can be good. Umezawa's Jitte, given a sufficient creature base, is always solid in creature match-ups particularly if you can accelerate it out. As you should probably be running Abrupt Decays, Chalices are far less of a problem but the tempo loss is a very real issue. Much depends on your third color, too. Having an easy way to destroy Chalice makes e.g. Swords to Plowshares from white much better (also Knight of the Reliquary is fairly good vs. Eldrazi), or Blood Moon from red (Moon alone doesn't win, but Moon + lots of removal/big dudes is pretty good). Price of Progress would be nice in a more beatdown version but it certainly doesn't play nice with cards like Toxic Deluge and Snuff Out if you're running nonbasics yourself so you'll have to be a bit careful.

Of course, Ensnaring Bridge (and its ilk, but especially the cheap, colorless one) is the #1 card Eldrazi have huge trouble dealing with and BG decks probably do have some pingers like Deathrite Shaman and perhaps Punishing Fire/Grove so you'll have to consider if it's feasible for you to run the Bridge. Also, we'll have to remember that thanks to Thoughtknot Seer, it's not entirely a given that any specific hate card will make it into play, so just relying on one card isn't a reliable means to beat the tentacles.

Riehu
03-18-2016, 06:14 AM
I've been testing all kinds of colored versions of Eldrazi Stompy in the past two weeks or so. Sometimes I get back to colorless version as it has seemed to perform the best until my recent BW version which I managed to 5-0 yesterday's league and get other good results as well (some of the losses I should / could have won as I noticed the mistakes I did). My goal has been to find a version that has a better chance vs Blood Moon, True Name Nemesis (in different decks), Shardless BUG and different kind of equipment strategies while still trying to have the speed and disruptive power of the colorless version.

I started doing better with colorless versions when I did not try to go too big or wide but keep the colorless shell, at least most of it. This means either Matter Reshaper or Eldrazi Displacer as 3 drop. Also the creature count should be 22+ I believe.

Thoughts about the build below:

- mana seems to be semi ok, need to test more and remember to name Elemental for Cavern at times to play Shriekmaw and to make it uncounterable
- Displacer Shriekmaw is a good combination (yet slow at times) and also uncounterable removal for tarmo knight of the relinquary etc
- Leyline of the Void has been good and at times great, same goes for toxic deluge
- haven't had chance to use disenchant on blood moon or moat yet, destroyed equipment though
- still not sure about the right number of warping wails main, perhaps going down to 2 replacing it with some other utility


4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endless One
1 Endbringer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Shriekmaw


4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
2 Lotus Petal

3 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


4 Leyline of the Void
2 Disenchant
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Karakas

Raystar
03-18-2016, 07:18 AM
Show of hands for who wants this, because I am really tempted to make it happen.

Yes, please :wink:

Barook
03-18-2016, 10:10 AM
Second league run with my current list (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/387406#online), 4-1'ed. Matches were:

R1: Lost to Mirror (Riehu's build posted above)
R2: Win vs Miracles
R3: Win vs ANT
R4: Win vs Sneak & Show (I love this match-up)
R5: Win vs Mirror with white splash for Displacer (and SB O-Ring; had a nice talk with him since he appearently knows me from this thread; I had some ridiculous draws, like T1 TKS on the draw)

Stoneblade SB never came up this run. Since it does very little in the mirror (which has high relevance in the current online meta, ~13% of placing decks), I do wonder if there are better options that have uses in the mirror and help in other match-ups as well. Some cheap removal for enemy fatties would certainly help.

I'm thinking about:
- 3 Sword of X & Y
- 2 SFM

+ 3 StP/PtE
+ 2 Endbringer (O-Sower is good as well for the mirror, but pretty useless otherwise)

Also maybe cutting the 4th Dismember for a 2nd Jitte SB if I go with the white removal plan. Since we're aggro, is PtE really better with potentially giving a basic in various match-ups than the lifegain from StP? I'd love a discussion about that and the awkwardness of said spells as removal in matches were CotV @1 is relevant.

Mox came up as a bit awkward from time to time. I consider replacing my second copy with another Petal, going with a 1 Mox/4 Petal split.

iostream
03-18-2016, 10:10 AM
A couple questions for the splashing people:

1) Has there been any consideration given to things like Tarnished Citadel or Tendo Ice Bridge as additional copies of Brushland or Caves of Koilos in these versions that run a bunch of non-Eldrazi spells off the splash color (i.e. in builds where Corrupted Crossroads looks bad)? The size of these splashes seem so small that it should be possible to get away with something like that even though there is a downside.

2) Is Lotus Petal "basically as good" as the Spirit Guides? Is it easy to sequence them in a way so that they don't get countered when they are of maximum value?

Cire
03-18-2016, 10:32 AM
A couple questions for the splashing people:

1) Has there been any consideration given to things like Tarnished Citadel or Tendo Ice Bridge as additional copies of Brushland or Caves of Koilos in these versions that run a bunch of non-Eldrazi spells off the splash color (i.e. in builds where Corrupted Crossroads looks bad)? The size of these splashes seem so small that it should be possible to get away with something like that even though there is a downside.

2) Is Lotus Petal "basically as good" as the Spirit Guides? Is it easy to sequence them in a way so that they don't get countered when they are of maximum value?

I experimented with number 1 initially (when I was trying to run 2-3 splash colors), but I think that we play so little of any particular splash color (and only 1-2, if that) that there are always better options.

Can't help with 2. I'm a Mox advocate :tongue:


Help me beat your deck. What are cards you eldrazi pilots don't like to face? What about specifically in the BGx decks?

Ensnaring Bridge
Blood Moon
Painter's Servant
Magus of the Moon
Wasteland
---
Deed
Toxic Deluge
Goyf
The Delve Creatures
Turn 1 - Thought Seize/Cabal

Riehu
03-18-2016, 10:37 AM
A couple questions for the splashing people:

1) Has there been any consideration given to things like Tarnished Citadel or Tendo Ice Bridge as additional copies of Brushland or Caves of Koilos in these versions that run a bunch of non-Eldrazi spells off the splash color (i.e. in builds where Corrupted Crossroads looks bad)? The size of these splashes seem so small that it should be possible to get away with something like that even though there is a downside.

2) Is Lotus Petal "basically as good" as the Spirit Guides? Is it easy to sequence them in a way so that they don't get countered when they are of maximum value?

My 2 cents.

1) Tarnished doesn't sound too good as we're taking a lot of damage already. We most of the lands to generate mana advantage. In addition Cavern of Souls is very important as well so there is not too much space to have extra lands without losing some of the speed (which I think is essential with current builds).

2) I've noticed that for other than green or red fixing we really need lotus petal for mana fixing and to some extent speed. It has a double role for sure. I've played like 20 matches with Petals and no one has yet countered those. For sure it has to do with sequencing as well.

iostream
03-18-2016, 10:46 AM
My 2 cents.

1) Tarnished doesn't sound too good as we're taking a lot of damage already. We most of the lands to generate mana advantage. In addition Cavern of Souls is very important as well so there is not too much space to have extra lands without losing some of the speed (which I think is essential with current builds).

2) I've noticed that for other than green or red fixing we really need lotus petal for mana fixing and to some extent speed. It has a double role for sure. I've played like 20 matches with Petals and no one has yet countered those. For sure it has to do with sequencing as well.
Thanks for the speedy reply.

1) I definitely agree, the suggestion was to run something like 1 Tarnished Citadel or 1 Tendo Ice Bridge. It seems like 4 Cavern, 4 Tomb, 4 on-color painlands, 4 Temple, 3 Eye, 3 City, are stock. That's 22 lands, which leaves room for 3 more lands. With Karakas and Urborg being as useful as they are, I'd like 1 of each of those in the deck (regardless of whether it's WG or WB), which leaves room for just 1 of the lands I suggested.

2) Definitely not suggesting cutting the fast mana - even in the colorless version, I like running 2 Spirit Guides. I was just worried that you get into situations where the Petal has to resolve in order for you to play out your hand, and your opponent can figure it out. Another worry, by the way, is the Daze decks - hopefully the utility of countering Daze out of nowhere doesn't matter too much.

Barook
03-18-2016, 10:47 AM
A couple questions for the splashing people:

1) Has there been any consideration given to things like Tarnished Citadel or Tendo Ice Bridge as additional copies of Brushland or Caves of Koilos in these versions that run a bunch of non-Eldrazi spells off the splash color (i.e. in builds where Corrupted Crossroads looks bad)? The size of these splashes seem so small that it should be possible to get away with something like that even though there is a downside.

2) Is Lotus Petal "basically as good" as the Spirit Guides? Is it easy to sequence them in a way so that they don't get countered when they are of maximum value?
1) Tarnished Citadel is too painful to be any good in this deck. I could see Tendo Ice Bridge working.
2) Spirit Guides are strictly better as an accelerant (can't be countered, no anti-synergy with Thorn, suprise Daze mana). I would only run Lotus Petal if you need colored mana other than :r: or :g: (like in my case, for :w:). Lotus Petal does what it's supposed to do as an accelerant. I prefer being able to run powerful white bombs over Colorless with the option to cast Gray Ogres.

Polishguy00
03-18-2016, 01:53 PM
Second league run with my current list (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/387406#online), 4-1'ed. Matches were:

R1: Lost to Mirror (Riehu's build posted above)
R2: Win vs Miracles
R3: Win vs ANT
R4: Win vs Sneak & Show (I love this match-up)
R5: Win vs Mirror with white splash for Displacer (and SB O-Ring; had a nice talk with him since he appearently knows me from this thread; I had some ridiculous draws, like T1 TKS on the draw)

Stoneblade SB never came up this run. Since it does very little in the mirror (which has high relevance in the current online meta, ~13% of placing decks), I do wonder if there are better options that have uses in the mirror and help in other match-ups as well. Some cheap removal for enemy fatties would certainly help.

I'm thinking about:
- 3 Sword of X & Y
- 2 SFM

+ 3 StP/PtE
+ 2 Endbringer (O-Sower is good as well for the mirror, but pretty useless otherwise)

Also maybe cutting the 4th Dismember for a 2nd Jitte SB if I go with the white removal plan. Since we're aggro, is PtE really better with potentially giving a basic in various match-ups than the lifegain from StP? I'd love a discussion about that and the awkwardness of said spells as removal in matches were CotV @1 is relevant.

Mox came up as a bit awkward from time to time. I consider replacing my second copy with another Petal, going with a 1 Mox/4 Petal split.

I was that round five. Glad to see it was to finish a 4-1. I finished 3-2 again, losing to you and Stoneblade with TNNs.

Delvis
03-18-2016, 02:17 PM
I was that round five. Glad to see it was to finish a 4-1. I finished 3-2 again, losing to you and Stoneblade with TNNs.

Now that you mention Stoneblade with TNN causing trouble: @Barook, have you considered using a Manriki-Gusari in your Stoneforge package? True-Name is a lot easier to race when it's not carrying a Sword or Skull.

iostream
03-18-2016, 02:45 PM
Now that you mention Stoneblade with TNN causing trouble: @Barook, have you considered using a Manriki-Gusari in your Stoneforge package? True-Name is a lot easier to race when it's not carrying a Sword or Skull.Having run that card in D+T before, I assure you that Manriki-Gusari is really bad. There are so many ways for it to go wrong, and it is so bad to draw when they just happen to take a line that doesn't relying on equipment.

MD.Ghost
03-18-2016, 03:45 PM
Second league run with my current list (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/387406#online), 4-1'ed. Matches were:


Gratz!

I will test that main for sure, since i am a longtime (for eldrazi^^) supporter of superior the White-Splash.

My side would look a little bit different:

1 Ulamog 2.0 (since the build has no own Wastelands and can run 1-2 Conduit - so mana is more or less safe)
2 All is Dust (Fight all the midrange Creature-stuff and have outs vs all Miracle cards: Mentor/Moon/Moat/Humility/Entreat/Jace!)
1 Thalia (Storm run more and more Hurklys Recall etc. so Thalia is a better Thorn here)
2 Warping Wail (Storm will bring more Permanent Hate - Wail also hits Elves, Miracle, Show&Tell and random matchups/creatures)
2 Path to Exile (i have copyright here, but i think it is a really good call vs Mirror and Gofy/Knight-based Decks, since Chalice isnt so good vs BGx decks)
2 Containment Priest (proven card)
2 Rest in Peace (proven card)
1 Duplicant (Mirror and Combos well with Displacer, but unlike Priest, Duplicant will kill on its own, Barook plays a 3rd Priest here)
2 Wastes (my flexslots, but i like them, yes the build is resilient vs Moon, but have a pair of Basics is ok in the current meta game)

------
EDIT: As Gheizen mentioned, i won a nice game vs him with Displacer - that card is really good!

EDIT: More about RG Build, or Devoid build with Bearer of Silence etc. next week!

Barook
03-18-2016, 04:34 PM
Having run that card in D+T before, I assure you that Manriki-Gusari is really bad. There are so many ways for it to go wrong, and it is so bad to draw when they just happen to take a line that doesn't relying on equipment.
I'm with iostream here. Also, why would I fetch Manriki if I could fetch SoFaI instead to overrun my opponent instead? The deck doesn't have the slots to screw around.

For my next league run, I'll throw out the SFM package and make the changes mentioned before to combat the mirror better. I'll see if I miss the second Mox or the SFM package.

Edit: Third league run was less great and I'm kinda salty about it since Infect is normally a good match-up for my build. I ran into Infect 3 times (!) and lost two matches to a bunch of picture-perfect god draws like on the play T1 Daze, T2 Inkmoth, T3 tripple Invigorate. :rolleyes:

Overall went 3-2, with my other wins being Miracles and the Mirror (coloress build). Paths were sitting in my hand in the mirror due to lack of white mana. Not too sure what to think about that.

Eldariel
03-18-2016, 08:32 PM
2) Is Lotus Petal "basically as good" as the Spirit Guides? Is it easy to sequence them in a way so that they don't get countered when they are of maximum value?

Generally you'd rather they counter your Petal than whatever you were going to play with it anyways - most spells in this deck are counterable and if the opponent e.g. counters your turn 1 Lotus Petal instead of the Chalice you were going to cast with that, you've come out on top. The only exception is of course if you have a Cavern and a Petal want to cast some 2-mana Eldrazi for it (or something similar) but that doesn't seem relevant all that often.

Holly
03-19-2016, 05:49 AM
Yeah them countering a Lotus Petal matters like 1 of 100 games.. if even that many.
"More problematic" is the dissynergy with Thorn of Amethyst if you're playing it.
Turn 1 Ancient Tomb -> Thorn
Turn 2 1-mana-land -> Spirit Guide -> Thought-Knot Seer is not a super uncommon line of play, does work with a Petal if you know you're going to do this beforehand and don't draw it for your turn.
It not being able to be a creature is another really small point.
All in all those points are all pretty small but they do add up, so if you don't need it to generate white, blue or black mana I'd rather go with the spirit guides. If you do wan't the colored mana then by all means, don't let those small points discourage you.

Barook
03-19-2016, 07:21 AM
After a less glorious 2-3 run, I've decided to throw out the pretty much useless Paths and go back to my Blade SB and went 4-1 again (only loss being against BUG Delver R1). While it only played a minor role, it certainly did help to access equipment under Blood Moon effects when playing against a Moggcatcher deck in the final round (although the real blowout was delivered by resp Containment Priest, while All is Dust was MVP both games).

Not too sure what I should do with my last SB slot. I replaced my 4th Dismember for another Endbringer since I hate the overall life loss between Tombs and too many Dismembers, especially when running multiples. But the slot hardly came up. Having at least "something" for the mirror would be nice, though.

Barring some high variance bullshit like drawing 15 lands out of 24 cards (well, that's part of Magic, too), I'm very pleased with the MD performance so far (1 Mox/4 Petal configuration). The set SB slots (Karakas, Priest, RiP, All is Dust) are rock-solid, too. Only the flex slots still require some tinkering imho.

Gnagno
03-19-2016, 09:33 AM
Hi there! I started testing eldrazi a week ago and my testings are doing quite well.

To me this could be one the best chalice decks since it puts an incredible pressure on your opponent.
I'm using a red splas because you get the most mana sources without loses on speed and you gain Eldrazi Obligator which can steals blockers, big creatures put with Show and Tell/Reanimate, or just swing for 3 haste on the worst case scenario.
Here's my current list, to avoid Blood Moon I'm running 4 Wastes. Enjoy! :smile:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi temple
3 Eye of Uin
4 Wastes
4 cavern of Souls
4 Sulfurous Springs
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter reshaper
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Warping Wail

SB

2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Null Rod
3 Thorn of Amethist
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Dismember
2 All is Dust
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Barook
03-19-2016, 10:34 AM
Yeah them countering a Lotus Petal matters like 1 of 100 games.. if even that many.
"More problematic" is the dissynergy with Thorn of Amethyst if you're playing it.
Turn 1 Ancient Tomb -> Thorn
Turn 2 1-mana-land -> Spirit Guide -> Thought-Knot Seer is not a super uncommon line of play, does work with a Petal if you know you're going to do this beforehand and don't draw it for your turn.
It not being able to be a creature is another really small point.
All in all those points are all pretty small but they do add up, so if you don't need it to generate white, blue or black mana I'd rather go with the spirit guides. If you do wan't the colored mana then by all means, don't let those small points discourage you.
Another disadvantage of Petal compared to Guides is that it feeds Goyf. Chances are that they got one of your artifacts into the GY via counters of removal anyway. Haven't come up for me as a problem yet, but might be a minor nuisance sometimes.

As for my last SB slot, I just had an epiphany regarding my last SB slot after playing against RUG Delver. I need something that can act as removal, doesn't eat me alive like multiple Dismember, is good for the mirror, doesn't have a shitty casting cost and has applications in other match-ups as well. Long story short, Jitte #2. Sure, it could be third Stoneforge, but you don't always have white mana immediately and SFM tutoring is slower. Adding another card that can gain me life is just an added bonus (Batterskull is just too slow/uncastable more often than not). I'll add the change after finishing my current league run and see how it goes, but I'm excited.

RhoxWarMonk
03-19-2016, 11:06 AM
Another disadvantage of Petal compared to Guides is that it feeds Goyf. Chances are that they got one of your artifacts into the GY via counters of removal anyway. Haven't come up for me as a problem yet, but might be a minor nuisance sometimes.

As for my last SB slot, I just had an epiphany regarding my last SB slot after playing against RUG Delver. I need something that can act as removal, doesn't eat me alive like multiple Dismember, is good for the mirror, doesn't have a shitty casting cost and has applications in other match-ups as well. Long story short, Jitte #2. Sure, it could be third Stoneforge, but you don't always have white mana immediately and SFM tutoring is slower. Adding another card that can gain me life is just an added bonus (Batterskull is just too slow/uncastable more often than not). I'll add the change after finishing my current league run and see how it goes, but I'm excited.

I play 2 Jitte main and they have been phenomenonal for me. Been considering a 1/1 MD and sb split but hard card to pull since it's good against so many different decks. Dismember is a great card but it's incredibly awkward with an ancient Tomb or trinisphere in play, so I've been leaving those mostly in the sb. They are sure good against infect though :laugh:

Barook
03-19-2016, 11:48 AM
I play 2 Jitte main and they have been phenomenonal for me. Been considering a 1/1 MD and sb split but hard card to pull since it's good against so many different decks. Dismember is a great card but it's incredibly awkward with an ancient Tomb or trinisphere in play, so I've been leaving those mostly in the sb. They are sure good against infect though :laugh:
Jitte can be awkward at times in certain match-ups, too. Of course it's good vs Infect, among other things. It also plays well under Moon effects if you can stick a creature.

I don't understand your Trinisphere concern, though. Paying Phyrexian mana is still considered mana, thus you pay 3 to satisfy Trinisphere, even if you actually paid :1: and 4 life. :really:

Holly
03-19-2016, 12:50 PM
Jitte can be awkward at times in certain match-ups, too. Of course it's good vs Infect, among other things. It also plays well under Moon effects if you can stick a creature.

I don't understand your Trinisphere concern, though. Paying Phyrexian mana is still considered mana, thus you pay 3 to satisfy Trinisphere, even if you actually paid :1: and 4 life. :really:

That is not true.
Paying life IS NOT considered mana for the effect of Trinisphere (or anything else for that matter).
It does not work like Convoke or Delve.

RhoxWarMonk
03-19-2016, 01:03 PM
Jitte can be awkward at times in certain match-ups, too. Of course it's good vs Infect, among other things. It also plays well under Moon effects if you can stick a creature.

I don't understand your Trinisphere concern, though. Paying Phyrexian mana is still considered mana, thus you pay 3 to satisfy Trinisphere, even if you actually paid :1: and 4 life. :really:

As holly mentioned, that's incorrect. Dismember with a Trinisphere in play will actually cost you 3 colorless AND 4 life, if you don't have black mana to pay for the phyrexian cost (which I do not in my deck -- no Urborg).

Trinisphere only cares about mana cost - life from the phyrexian mana isn't included in it's calculation. It's the same thing with having an Eye of Ugin in play. You still have to pay 3 mana, so you can't play, say, a Reshaper off a Cavern and an Eye with a Trinisphere in play, despite the Reshaper only costing 3.

Barook
03-19-2016, 01:08 PM
You're both right. http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2012/08/how-trinisphere-works-with-phyrexian-mana/

Got that mixed up with the rule changes of Delve and Convoke.

RhoxWarMonk
03-19-2016, 02:14 PM
Is anyone trying out either of the Spirit guides right now? I'm debating on putting them in, they look very strong and who doesn't want more explosive starts but it would mean I'd have to cut 2 Endbringers (and a Jitte) to make room for them. I'm not sure I want to do that, Endbringer has been very solid for me in non-combo matchups.

I noticed spirit guides have been popping up on mtggoldfish lately, so I thought I'd ask if anyone here was having success with them.

wortwelt
03-19-2016, 04:48 PM
Is anyone trying out either of the Spirit guides right now? I'm debating on putting them in, they look very strong and who doesn't want more explosive starts but it would mean I'd have to cut 2 Endbringers (and a Jitte) to make room for them. I'm not sure I want to do that, Endbringer has been very solid for me in non-combo matchups.


In the colorless list, I feel they add a lot of consistency in keepable hands, make you more explosive and mess with Daze players. I like them a lot.

MGB
03-19-2016, 10:13 PM
I played in the Tales of Adventure Legacy 5k today. Lots of Eldrazi players at this event, but not a single one made top-8. Michael Derczo, who's a really good player who usually plays Death'n'Taxes in Legacy, was playing Eldrazi and he echoed a common sentiment I heard today from lots of players - "The deck is mostly hype". He complained that it lacks interaction and doesn't do enough powerful things to compete consistently at a high level. Now, I take his word for it because he's a really good player, so I'm wondering if maybe the deck has been over-hyped and is not really of Tier 1 material.

Barook
03-19-2016, 10:19 PM
Unless results change drastically, I'm sold on the Xenoblade SB plan:

It's a really good plan B agaisnt Blood Moon decks (http://i.imgur.com/mPcALLt.jpg) (Fuck you, MTGO, for making me play the same guy twice in the same league run. At least I won the second encounter 2-0)

Oh shit! (http://i.imgur.com/oUcTsLK.jpg) How do you beat that? Beat them down with eldritch abominations wielding magicial glowsticks of pointy contradictions. (http://i.imgur.com/ML2ZSdp.jpg) (better be lucky than good) :laugh:

Edit:

I played in the Tales of Adventure Legacy 5k today. Lots of Eldrazi players at this event, but not a single one made top-8. Michael Derczo, who's a really good player who usually plays Death'n'Taxes in Legacy, was playing Eldrazi and he echoed a common sentiment I heard today from lots of players - "The deck is mostly hype". He complained that it lacks interaction and doesn't do enough powerful things to compete consistently at a high level. Now, I take his word for it because he's a really good player, so I'm wondering if maybe the deck has been over-hyped and is not really of Tier 1 material.
Depends on the version, imho. If he talks about the Colorless version, I do agree - it's overhyped since it can be attacked from too many angles easily. What's why I do think the Wx version is better, since it gives you better ways to interact, like Displacer, more Karakas, World Breaker (if you play green), a better SB plan - not to mention it's more fun to play.

MGB
03-19-2016, 10:51 PM
Unless results change drastically, I'm sold on the Xenoblade SB plan:

It's a really good plan B agaisnt Blood Moon decks (http://i.imgur.com/mPcALLt.jpg) (Fuck you, MTGO, for making me play the same guy twice in the same league run. At least I won the second encounter 2-0)

Oh shit! (http://i.imgur.com/oUcTsLK.jpg) How do you beat that? Beat them down with eldritch abominations wielding magicial glowsticks of pointy contradictions. (http://i.imgur.com/ML2ZSdp.jpg) (better be lucky than good) :laugh:

Edit:

Depends on the version, imho. If he talks about the Colorless version, I do agree - it's overhyped since it can be attacked from too many angles easily. What's why I do think the Wx version is better, since it gives you better ways to interact, like Displacer, more Karakas, World Breaker (if you play green), a better SB plan - not to mention it's more fun to play.

There were a few players on the white version, in fact, I think more players were on the white version than the colorless version. I'm pretty sure Michael was on it too - with Karakas, Displacers, etc.

iostream
03-19-2016, 11:07 PM
I played in the Tales of Adventure Legacy 5k today. Lots of Eldrazi players at this event, but not a single one made top-8. Michael Derczo, who's a really good player who usually plays Death'n'Taxes in Legacy, was playing Eldrazi and he echoed a common sentiment I heard today from lots of players - "The deck is mostly hype". He complained that it lacks interaction and doesn't do enough powerful things to compete consistently at a high level. Now, I take his word for it because he's a really good player, so I'm wondering if maybe the deck has been over-hyped and is not really of Tier 1 material.My suspicion is that it will end up being a format policeman like Dredge. It keeps people honest along a certain axis. The fact that it has so much hype means people are going to prepare for it, and it's not a good choice when people are packing the hate. I'd bet my bottom dollar that no serious player showed up to that 5k without some sort of plan against Eldrazi.

contra
03-20-2016, 06:12 PM
The following is a list that I’ve been championing locally and on cockatrice[contra]. I know I’ll get lots of criticism running 4 Eyes and 4 Cities but after doing the math it just makes for more consistent explosiveness i.e. chalice or thorn turn one, 3x creatures turn one, turn three clock ect…

I also believe trinisphere is a mistake in eldrazi as it has a lot of dis-synergies with eye of ugin (the brokest card in the deck), mimic, and our other spells.

White and black have the most potential as color splashes, but what makes this deck strong and weak at the same time is our mana base. Running 16 ancient tombs is great, until you want to splash color…


Creatures
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Matter Reshaper
Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Mox Diamond
Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
Sideboard
2 Dismember
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Warping Wail
2 Pithing Needle
2 Phyrexian Metamorph

Barook
03-20-2016, 09:45 PM
There were a few players on the white version, in fact, I think more players were on the white version than the colorless version. I'm pretty sure Michael was on it too - with Karakas, Displacers, etc.
Displacer is godly, and Karakas is great, too, but if you don't go balls deep into white, it's all for naught since colorless SB options are mostly narrow, underwhelming and/or shitty.

The impact of the white SB cards is on a whole different level compared to what Colorless lists could muster. I noticed a trend that a good chunk of my latest won matches have come from post-SB games. I don't think my MD sucks (I actually like my current configuration overall, maybe 1 more white source required), but rather the white SB hate pulls its weight. E.g. vs Goblins, G2 was won entirely on the back of unblockable SoWaP beats while G3 was decided by 2 Displacers + a timely Containment Priest absolutely dismantling his board while I was constantly being Ported and low on mana, preventing me from casting any of my higher mana Eldrazi.

I'm also sold on the SB Blade plan now. Highly customizably & high impact, solves a bunch of problematic roadblocks and is in combination with any creature a massive threat by itself. Sometimes it feels a bit win-more when you do your Eldrazi things, but when you're in a pinch, it's going to save your ass better than anything else I've seen in Eldrazi SB so far, and in way more match-ups.

If there's interest, I could upload a couple of replays on Youtube, although that might fail due to my abyssal upload here. Should I use OBS as recording program?

iostream
03-20-2016, 11:55 PM
Displacer is godly, and Karakas is great, too, but if you don't go balls deep into white, it's all for naught since colorless SB options are mostly narrow, underwhelming and/or shitty.

The impact of the white SB cards is on a whole different level compared to what Colorless lists could muster. I noticed a trend that a good chunk of my latest won matches have come from post-SB games. I don't think my MD sucks (I actually like my current configuration overall, maybe 1 more white source required), but rather the white SB hate pulls its weight. E.g. vs Goblins, G2 was won entirely on the back of unblockable SoWaP beats while G3 was decided by 2 Displacers + a timely Containment Priest absolutely dismantling his board while I was constantly being Ported and low on mana, preventing me from casting any of my higher mana Eldrazi.

I'm also sold on the SB Blade plan now. Highly customizably & high impact, solves a bunch of problematic roadblocks and is in combination with any creature a massive threat by itself. Sometimes it feels a bit win-more when you do your Eldrazi things, but when you're in a pinch, it's going to save your ass better than anything else I've seen in Eldrazi SB so far, and in way more match-ups.

If there's interest, I could upload a couple of replays on Youtube, although that might fail due to my abyssal upload here. Should I use OBS as recording program?Are you talking about this decklist? http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/387406#online

I have two questions about that sideboard. The first is about Needle effects - in particular, without Needles, what is the plan against Lands for this decklist? I've personally found the Needles are a necessary evil given how good Maze of Ith, Wasteland, and Rishadan Port are against us. Rest In Peace helps with certain angles of attack they have, but not others, and I'm not sure that by itself it is adequate. Second, could you explain the equipment choices a bit? SoFaI is an obvious bomb in certain matchups, but the other two look a little strange to me. SoFaF seems like a rather sketchy plan given that all the BGx decks have so many ways around it - in particular, Abrupt Decay before blockers are declared seems like it leads to a terrifying blowout in most circumstances. SoWaP looks like the worst of the three. Presumably, it's for D+T and various aggressive red decks, but the trigger seems pretty low impact and versus those decks, and the second Jitte seems to do a lot of the same work but for cheaper. I wonder if Sword of Light and Shadow would be a better choice, since that's also pretty decent versus black removal and so you would get to run two pro-black equipments against Shardless.

Barook
03-21-2016, 05:11 AM
Are you talking about this decklist? http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/387406#online

I have two questions about that sideboard. The first is about Needle effects - in particular, without Needles, what is the plan against Lands for this decklist? I've personally found the Needles are a necessary evil given how good Maze of Ith, Wasteland, and Rishadan Port are against us. Rest In Peace helps with certain angles of attack they have, but not others, and I'm not sure that by itself it is adequate. Second, could you explain the equipment choices a bit? SoFaI is an obvious bomb in certain matchups, but the other two look a little strange to me. SoFaF seems like a rather sketchy plan given that all the BGx decks have so many ways around it - in particular, Abrupt Decay before blockers are declared seems like it leads to a terrifying blowout in most circumstances. SoWaP looks like the worst of the three. Presumably, it's for D+T and various aggressive red decks, but the trigger seems pretty low impact and versus those decks, and the second Jitte seems to do a lot of the same work but for cheaper. I wonder if Sword of Light and Shadow would be a better choice, since that's also pretty decent versus black removal and so you would get to run two pro-black equipments against Shardless.
Yeah, that decklist, except with 1 Mox/4 Petal split MD and a second Jitte in the spot of the SB Dismember. Might have 5-0'ed instead of 4-1'ed the latest league if I had played tighter against my Elves opponent, but that was my first match against it with the new list, so mistakes were made.

I'd love to run Needles, but I don't have the space for it. Lands is only ~2,64% (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#online) of the online meta. I haven't encountered one for quite a while now, thus I ignore it. You can't cover everything and Lands would still be a suboptimal match-up, even with Needles.

RiP does help vs the Loam plan, shuts down Goyf, DRS, Dredge, prevents PiF kills from Storm, etc. - it's the best GY hate for good reason and everything else has failed to feel satisfying. Faerie Macabre might be situationaly better in a few cases, but RiP is higher impact in more match-ups. I aim with my SB for broad meta coverage over highly specialized choices.

As for the Equipment:
- SoFaF: If they have AD, they have it. But they also have to deal with stuff like RiP or Chalice. If they signal that they might have AD, play carefully. I admit it isn't the best solution vs Abrupt Decay decks, but it certainly is better than no solution against them.
- SoWaP is better vs control (Miracles), certain combo decks (where I have the space to bring it in) and red decks. It's a meta choice. The extra damage from SoWaP can matter vs control & combo, plus the life gain can't be countered by random DRS activations on your GY target. If you think SoLaS is the better choice for your particular meta, go ahead. I just want to make sure that I cover all 5 colors with my protection. Against Shardless, I can already run Jitte, SoFaF and SoFaI.

MD.Ghost
03-21-2016, 05:30 AM
I agree with Barook, Lands - while a good deck! - isn't played so much, that it should be focused with Sideboard cards. Sure you can play stuff like Crucible, which will help a bit and synergies well with own Wastelands, Cities etc.

Afterall the White-Splash has some good cards to fight lands to some degree. Rest in Peace shuts down Loam (acts like a "Cantrip" and allows Waste-Chains: Both is huge!), especially recurring Wastelands are a Pain. Displacer itself will stops Marit Lage and is only killable with 2x PFire (which is not easy if you got RiP only). So RiP + Displacer will do some work here, Chalice and Karakas can help too - Overall the matchup isn't good, but against all odds the White-Splash has some good tools to fight back.

Needle itself isn't so good here because: What will you name? Wasteland, Port, Maze, Thespian? Chalice shuts down some land cards (Gamble, Rotation, Looting, Exploration etc.) but it work not well with Needle. Lands will always use some KGrip, so Needle isn't safe here - while RiP can do some damage (and slow them down) before its removed.

Delvis
03-21-2016, 06:58 AM
I played in the Tales of Adventure Legacy 5k today. Lots of Eldrazi players at this event, but not a single one made top-8. Michael Derczo, who's a really good player who usually plays Death'n'Taxes in Legacy, was playing Eldrazi and he echoed a common sentiment I heard today from lots of players - "The deck is mostly hype". He complained that it lacks interaction and doesn't do enough powerful things to compete consistently at a high level. Now, I take his word for it because he's a really good player, so I'm wondering if maybe the deck has been over-hyped and is not really of Tier 1 material.

The issue with Eldrazi in the meta here (US Northeast) is that there is currently a heavy trend to Life from the Loam decks and away from Miracles and Storm. I did commentary for the Squabbles Quest for Power yesterday, and the Top 8 was: 3 Dark Lands, 1 Aggro Loam, 1 Shardless, 1 D&T, 1 Grixis Delver, 1 Miracles, with another Miracles in salty 9th on breakers. 2 of the Lands lists lost in Top 8, but the finals wound up as Aggro Loam vs. Lands, where Lands won. There was no Storm in the room that I could see, and Miracles and Delver were underrepresented.

So Derczo is right insofar as this meta is concerned. Right now, Eldrazi is terrible in this metagame, because apparently everyone in the area has changed decks to play something that beats Eldrazi. This means the shape of the metagame is outlined by Eldrazi, in much the same way as it is outlined by turn 1 combo decks (i.e. mandating Force of Will). Now, that places the Eldrazi in the same tier as decks like Belcher or Dredge, which means decidedly not tier 1, but still deserving of respect in deckbuilding. I predict that we'll see some reaction from the metagame as people adjust to the fact that Loam decks were EVERYWHERE this weekend. A meta this lacking in countermagic has to be immensely vulnerable to exploitation by combo, and then we'll see a return of Delver and Miracles, and then the Eldrazi will be good again, et cetera, et cetera. When this revolving metagame stops turning, I don't know, but currently it's fun to be a part of.

Riehu
03-21-2016, 07:35 AM
Against Shardless, I can already run Jitte, SoFaF and SoFaI.

How's your matchup vs Shardless in general? It still feels very tough for me even though I have more tools against it.

Barook
03-21-2016, 07:48 AM
How's your matchup vs Shardless in general? It still feels very tough for me even though I have more tools against it.
I haven't encountered it recently since it went from second most popular deck to ~4%. I also haven't played against Miracles for a while now despite it being 12+% of the metagame, but lots of random crap like 3x Moggcatcher Stompy within 6 matches. :rolleyes:

I suspect that match is still slightly in Shardless' favor, although the equipment should help to bypass Strix (and Goyf + random chumpblockers).

Julian23
03-21-2016, 08:11 AM
You guys will probably like to hear that Eldrazi put three(!) copies into the Top8 at the Turin Magic Tournament last weekend. For those who don't know, the TMT has a Legacy prizepool of ~20.000,- €, so it was a pretty big deal. Decklists will soon follow, I'll keep you posted.

PS: Thanks for beating Miracles. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Riehu
03-21-2016, 09:26 AM
You guys will probably like to hear that Eldrazi put three(!) copies into the Top8 at the Turin Magic Tournament last weekend. For those who don't know, the TMT has a Legacy prizepool of ~20.000,- €, so it was a pretty big deal. Decklists will soon follow, I'll keep you posted.

PS: Thanks for beating Miracles. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I read that at some other thread and tried to find the deck lists / report. Did not so thanks in advance.

RhoxWarMonk
03-21-2016, 09:28 AM
You guys will probably like to hear that Eldrazi put three(!) copies into the Top8 at the Turin Magic Tournament last weekend. For those who don't know, the TMT has a Legacy prizepool of ~20.000,- €, so it was a pretty big deal. Decklists will soon follow, I'll keep you posted.

PS: Thanks for beating Miracles. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Have they put up the decklists for this event yet? I'd love to see the configurations for the top 8 of these 3 decks and I can't seem to find them anywhere online.


The issue with Eldrazi in the meta here (US Northeast) is that there is currently a heavy trend to Life from the Loam decks and away from Miracles and Storm. I did commentary for the Squabbles Quest for Power yesterday, and the Top 8 was: 3 Dark Lands, 1 Aggro Loam, 1 Shardless, 1 D&T, 1 Grixis Delver, 1 Miracles, with another Miracles in salty 9th on breakers. 2 of the Lands lists lost in Top 8, but the finals wound up as Aggro Loam vs. Lands, where Lands won. There was no Storm in the room that I could see, and Miracles and Delver were underrepresented.

So Derczo is right insofar as this meta is concerned. Right now, Eldrazi is terrible in this metagame, because apparently everyone in the area has changed decks to play something that beats Eldrazi. This means the shape of the metagame is outlined by Eldrazi, in much the same way as it is outlined by turn 1 combo decks (i.e. mandating Force of Will). Now, that places the Eldrazi in the same tier as decks like Belcher or Dredge, which means decidedly not tier 1, but still deserving of respect in deckbuilding. I predict that we'll see some reaction from the metagame as people adjust to the fact that Loam decks were EVERYWHERE this weekend. A meta this lacking in countermagic has to be immensely vulnerable to exploitation by combo, and then we'll see a return of Delver and Miracles, and then the Eldrazi will be good again, et cetera, et cetera. When this revolving metagame stops turning, I don't know, but currently it's fun to be a part of.

Very much agree with this -- well said. Lands is such a rough matchup but it dies horribly to any sort of fast combo deck (Ive played lands a lot in the past myself), so this "rock", "paper", "scissors" meta matchup is exactly what we're going to see for the forseeable future. Lands is very unpopular in my area, only a few people play it, so Eldrazi is still a good choice for me here until that changes (most people are playing Storm and Miracles here -- lucky me I guess lol) :tongue:

iostream
03-21-2016, 11:38 AM
Yeah, that decklist, except with 1 Mox/4 Petal split MD and a second Jitte in the spot of the SB Dismember. Might have 5-0'ed instead of 4-1'ed the latest league if I had played tighter against my Elves opponent, but that was my first match against it with the new list, so mistakes were made.

I'd love to run Needles, but I don't have the space for it. Lands is only ~2,64% (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#online) of the online meta. I haven't encountered one for quite a while now, thus I ignore it. You can't cover everything and Lands would still be a suboptimal match-up, even with Needles.

RiP does help vs the Loam plan, shuts down Goyf, DRS, Dredge, prevents PiF kills from Storm, etc. - it's the best GY hate for good reason and everything else has failed to feel satisfying. Faerie Macabre might be situationaly better in a few cases, but RiP is higher impact in more match-ups. I aim with my SB for broad meta coverage over highly specialized choices.

As for the Equipment:
- SoFaF: If they have AD, they have it. But they also have to deal with stuff like RiP or Chalice. If they signal that they might have AD, play carefully. I admit it isn't the best solution vs Abrupt Decay decks, but it certainly is better than no solution against them.
- SoWaP is better vs control (Miracles), certain combo decks (where I have the space to bring it in) and red decks. It's a meta choice. The extra damage from SoWaP can matter vs control & combo, plus the life gain can't be countered by random DRS activations on your GY target. If you think SoLaS is the better choice for your particular meta, go ahead. I just want to make sure that I cover all 5 colors with my protection. Against Shardless, I can already run Jitte, SoFaF and SoFaI.Thanks for the reply! As other comments have indicated, Loam decks seem to be on the uptick in the Northeast (where I live), hence my fixation on Lands, 4c Loam, etc in all my replies. I wasn't totally aware to the extent to which those decks are dominating here, so perhaps it's time for me personally to put the deck aside for a while.

On the other hand, while Lands seems intrinsically hard, the other Loam decks feel like they ought to be fixable somehow. I'll have to think a little harder.

Barook
03-21-2016, 04:15 PM
You guys will probably like to hear that Eldrazi put three(!) copies into the Top8 at the Turin Magic Tournament last weekend. For those who don't know, the TMT has a Legacy prizepool of ~20.000,- €, so it was a pretty big deal. Decklists will soon follow, I'll keep you posted.

PS: Thanks for beating Miracles. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Today, I learned that I should not flicker Craterhoof at all - especially when I'm at two life and my opponent is also attacking with Visionary. :rolleyes: That's one way to throw away the game.

Despite playing like a total idiot G2, I still won G3 because a tutored up SoFaF helped me punch through the last few points of damage (http://i.imgur.com/g7eL4qC.jpg).

Protection in general is pretty nice to evade blockers - and in the end, that's SoFaF's main job (http://i.imgur.com/rO1KVH5.jpg).

-------------------------------------------
Edit:
Played against Shardless BUG twice this league round. Lost both times 1-2 (one G3 I could have won - i sweeped the board with All is Dust to get rid of his DRS and Strix, just to have him topdeck TNN next turn. Swinging with World Breaker equipped with Jitte did sound like a plan at that time. :rolleyes: ). I do think that aside from the Blade plan, I also have to use the Containment Priest combo to get rid of Goyfs and especially Strix. It did a good job at killing Strix before my Displacer ate an AD the following turn - but it was still enough to ensure that I can push enough damage through with a Reality Smasher despite TNN on board.

That strategy needs more testing and figuring how the hell I can pack All is Dust, RiP, Equipment AND Containment Priest post-SB. And before people bitch about oversideboarding - the Xenoblade plan is supposed to be a transformational SB.

btm10
03-21-2016, 08:45 PM
The issue with Eldrazi in the meta here (US Northeast) is that there is currently a heavy trend to Life from the Loam decks and away from Miracles and Storm. I did commentary for the Squabbles Quest for Power yesterday, and the Top 8 was: 3 Dark Lands, 1 Aggro Loam, 1 Shardless, 1 D&T, 1 Grixis Delver, 1 Miracles, with another Miracles in salty 9th on breakers. 2 of the Lands lists lost in Top 8, but the finals wound up as Aggro Loam vs. Lands, where Lands won. There was no Storm in the room that I could see, and Miracles and Delver were underrepresented.

So Derczo is right insofar as this meta is concerned. Right now, Eldrazi is terrible in this metagame, because apparently everyone in the area has changed decks to play something that beats Eldrazi. This means the shape of the metagame is outlined by Eldrazi, in much the same way as it is outlined by turn 1 combo decks (i.e. mandating Force of Will). Now, that places the Eldrazi in the same tier as decks like Belcher or Dredge, which means decidedly not tier 1, but still deserving of respect in deckbuilding. I predict that we'll see some reaction from the metagame as people adjust to the fact that Loam decks were EVERYWHERE this weekend. A meta this lacking in countermagic has to be immensely vulnerable to exploitation by combo, and then we'll see a return of Delver and Miracles, and then the Eldrazi will be good again, et cetera, et cetera. When this revolving metagame stops turning, I don't know, but currently it's fun to be a part of.

I actually like that everything is constantly changing - I very nearly sleeved up Burn for the Tales 5K - but I agree that Eldrazi is the wrong choice for the Mid-Atlantic right now, especially given the results at Tales (I can't speak for Squabbles, obviously). That being said, I think that the combo deck most likely start putting up results is Sneak and Show. 4c Loam has a solid game 1 against Storm while having a positively brutal sideboard plan, but it's quite vulnerable to Blood Moon and the Chalice plan isn't great against Sneak. Its Eldrazi matchup isn't as good as Shardless's (at least in my experience), but like you said, that shouldn't be an issue in a meta where BGx and Lands are the decks to beat.

MD.Ghost
03-22-2016, 05:12 AM
Yesterday i tested a modified Version from Barooks "Xenoblade" (:wg:Build) and faced the following situation:

I won the dice roll and start with:
T1 Eldrazi Temple (my plan was a solid T2 Thought-Knot Seer)

My unknown opponent start with:
T1 Dark Depths + Lotus Petal + Mox Diamond + Vampire Hexmage sac. into an terrifying 20/20 Avatar with flying :eek:

How can Eldrazi win this?

With a funny move like this: My Turn 2, tap Temple + play and sac. Lotus Petal for Eldrazi Displacer(!), play City of Traitors and say "Go!"
My opponent plays Bayou and Thoughtseize me, i respond with Dismember (!) vs Marit Lage, going down to 16 Life BUT survive the Token Attack on 1 Life and follow up with Turn 3 Displacer get rid of the annoying Token and win the game some turns later :cool:

Never thought that a Dismember would save my life vs Marit Lage, but this Example also shows, that Eldrazi Displacer is once again vastly superior.

--------------------
@julian23: Hope we get some decklists soon. Nice to see Eldrazi did a good job at Turin, even if i think that all of them are strictly colorless versions.

--------------------
Overall i disagree with the statement, that Eldrazi should be only a meta choice. Sure if hell opens and everybody overloads with Hate it will be a very hard time, but the same is true for every deck. That's why Barook and i are testing the GW Builds and various other ideas. The objective is that Eldrazi can be tuned well enough, even for an environment with for example Sneak&Show, BGx Decks, Loam stuff and common hate pieces like Blood Moon, Moat, Ensnaring Bridge etc. Never quit!

Poron
03-22-2016, 07:46 AM
Karakas/Diabolic Edict were the other only way I think.. :S

Pretty much no deck can save himself from a turn 0 Marit Lage

Admiral_Arzar
03-22-2016, 02:40 PM
Played a white build with a slight green splash at my local last night. Finished 2-1, beating Death and Taxes and Dredge while losing the die roll (and match) to Reanimator.


4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Containment Priest
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 World Breaker

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Warping Wail

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Brushland
1 Adarkar Wastes
2 Karakas

Sideboard

1 Disenchant
1 Containment Priest
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Rest in Peace
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Null Rod
2 Winter Orb
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

I had a mull to oblivion game one vs. Dredge, but otherwise the hands weren't too bad. I had to keep a solid 6 with RIP, Chalice, dudes, and no white mana game 2 vs. Reanimator - drew 2 extra RIP but no white source and I had plenty of time to draw it due to a slow draw by my opponent and a resolved Chalice. This deck cannot beat a Grave Titan ever. World Breaker got boarded out vs. the combo decks but was a house against DnT once I finally got up to 7 mana (this happened game two even though he triple Wastelanded me). Containment Priest was generally insane. I would like another white source but am not sure what land to cut. I am tempted to cut an Eye of Ugin because of the several non-Eldrazi creatures. A third Karakas in the board could also help with the white mana issue.

sporenfrosch1411
03-22-2016, 03:07 PM
I see some lists have 1-2 NUlamog in their sideboard - is this a tech vs Miracles or whats the appliance there?
Also, many lists drop Endbringer i see - i also found him to be irrelevant in many matchups, what are your thoughts here?

Admiral_Arzar
03-22-2016, 06:21 PM
I see some lists have 1-2 NUlamog in their sideboard - is this a tech vs Miracles or whats the appliance there?
Also, many lists drop Endbringer i see - i also found him to be irrelevant in many matchups, what are your thoughts here?

Ulamog is tech for Miracles and anything else where you see the game going very long. It's also ok to put in off a Show and Tell I guess although not great. Endbringer I liked in the colorless version (and ran 3) but in the color splash I prefer World Breaker.

Cire
03-22-2016, 06:33 PM
How is MD containment priest treating you? In non-S&T/non-Reanimator games do you get containment+Displacer out often enough for those two spots to not be wasted?

MGB
03-22-2016, 06:59 PM
MD Containment Priest is WAY too cute.

a.) You want to set your Caverns to "eldrazi" so there will be a non-negative amount of times you can't even get the white non-Eldrazi mana to cast the Priest.

b.) Against alot of decks Priest is nothing but a Grizzly Bear with Flash. Even if you get the combo of Displacer + Priest in play together, you could still be playing against something like Miracles or Storm and it doesn't matter. And how often do you actually get Priest + Displacer in play together, and have the 3 mana to activate it? Probably less than 25% of the time, if that.

Barook
03-22-2016, 10:26 PM
Ulamog is tech for Miracles and anything else where you see the game going very long. It's also ok to put in off a Show and Tell I guess although not great. Endbringer I liked in the colorless version (and ran 3) but in the color splash I prefer World Breaker.
Even if the games go long, how often do you end up actually casting it compared to a World Breaker?

As much as I like Containment Priest, I don't think it's MD material, especially with the amount of white sources you run. 1 Karakas SB is pretty much a must.

What are the Null Rods for? The deck already packs an insane amount of hate for Storm, so much that it's a very positive match-up anyway. Post-board, you can always bring in RiP, which wrecks them hard due to heavily relying on the PiF plan more often than not. Equipment can be handled with Displacer. I don't think SB Null Rods can justify the lack of MD accelerants, namely Lotus Petal (which would also fix your mana).

Since you already run Mimics, Endless One and Revoker, you have more than enough colorless creatures to work under Blood Moon. Thus the SB Blade plan should work for you very well (assuming you up the white count in the MD). E.g. I've been 3-1 in matches against Moggcatcher Stompy so far and they give out Blood Moon effects like it's candy. Yet you don't care much when you can just slap a Pro Red sword on one of your critters and just beat them to death. Note that the Blade plan works for many match-ups, not just Blood Moon stuff.

----------------------------------
EDIT:
I don't understand why my opponent threw away the game like this (should have used his Liliana to make me sac my TKS), but a topdecked land gave me exactly 5 mana to cast SoFaf, equip it and steal the game (http://i.imgur.com/rO4W3ds.jpg). It's stuff like this why I love the Blade plan. Containment Priest combo came up earlier this game, too, removing a Strix before Displacer ate an Abrupt Decay.

I'm also looking for a proper replacement of Conduit, which has been pretty underwhelming lately. I considered All is Dust, but I would rather have some kind of utility creature in that slot. I just don't think Metamorph would be pretty appealing in this spot.

Admiral_Arzar
03-23-2016, 11:47 AM
How is MD containment priest treating you? In non-S&T/non-Reanimator games do you get containment+Displacer out often enough for those two spots to not be wasted?

It was straight bonkers, but keep in mind my matchups were Death and Taxes, Dredge, and Reanimator.


MD Containment Priest is WAY too cute.

a.) You want to set your Caverns to "eldrazi" so there will be a non-negative amount of times you can't even get the white non-Eldrazi mana to cast the Priest.

b.) Against alot of decks Priest is nothing but a Grizzly Bear with Flash. Even if you get the combo of Displacer + Priest in play together, you could still be playing against something like Miracles or Storm and it doesn't matter. And how often do you actually get Priest + Displacer in play together, and have the 3 mana to activate it? Probably less than 25% of the time, if that.

Agree with point (a). I would like to modify my manabase to have additional white sources. However, point (b) is inaccurate in my meta - it's full of graveyard decks and fair decks with big dudes like Shardless and Aggro Loam. Priest + Displacer wrecked Death and Taxes in game 2 (he had to Revoker my turn one Jitte and didn't find a second for Displacer before it was too late).


Even if the games go long, how often do you end up actually casting it compared to a World Breaker?

As much as I like Containment Priest, I don't think it's MD material, especially with the amount of white sources you run. 1 Karakas SB is pretty much a must.

What are the Null Rods for? The deck already packs an insane amount of hate for Storm, so much that it's a very positive match-up anyway. Post-board, you can always bring in RiP, which wrecks them hard due to heavily relying on the PiF plan more often than not. Equipment can be handled with Displacer. I don't think SB Null Rods can justify the lack of MD accelerants, namely Lotus Petal (which would also fix your mana).

Since you already run Mimics, Endless One and Revoker, you have more than enough colorless creatures to work under Blood Moon. Thus the SB Blade plan should work for you very well (assuming you up the white count in the MD). E.g. I've been 3-1 in matches against Moggcatcher Stompy so far and they give out Blood Moon effects like it's candy. Yet you don't care much when you can just slap a Pro Red sword on one of your critters and just beat them to death. Note that the Blade plan works for many match-ups, not just Blood Moon stuff.



Ulamog pulled my ass out of the fire against Miracles when I was locked out by Moon + Mind Sculptor. Even if they don't have Moon, you'll often get to the mana to activate Eye of Ugin against them, so I think Ulamog deserves its one slot. I have considered moving Priest to the board, but it's hard to justify considering it's insane against 50% of my meta. I boarded in the extra Priest every match on Monday. There were several times where I wished I had an accelerant (either Mox or Petal) to cast Priest on turn one against the graveyard decks.

Null Rod is (along with Winter Orb) just another way to attack mana. It comes in against DnT, Miracles, Storm, and MUD and is crippling against all of them. I don't think Null Rod sideboard precludes running accelerants main just as it doesn't stop me from also boarding Jitte (I boarded both in against DnT as I would be happy to draw either). What exactly are you running for the blade plan? Just a few swords, or are you actually boarding SFM as well? I also need to figure out how to modify my manabase to more consistently have white as that was a problem.

btm10
03-23-2016, 03:16 PM
EDIT:
I don't understand why my opponent threw away the game like this (should have used his Liliana to make me sac my TKS), but a topdecked land gave me exactly 5 mana to cast SoFaf, equip it and steal the game (http://i.imgur.com/rO4W3ds.jpg). It's stuff like this why I love the Blade plan. Containment Priest combo came up earlier this game, too, removing a Strix before Displacer ate an Abrupt Decay.


Unless your opponent knew that you had Sword I don't like throwing Liliana away there (I assume they +1'ed instead), so with just the information in the picture I think they made the right play. If they did know about the Sword, I don't know why they took a line that only has upside against Reality Smasher rather than keeping Agent back to hardcast what looks like a Force of Will in hand, which is only beaten by exactly Cavern into Endbringer or Smasher. In short, I still tick up Liliana there if my hand is Agent, Deathrite, Force, card worth pitching, which is the only plausible combination of cards your opponent can have if they aren't flooding out. If they're flooding out and don't know about Sword, their line is correct. If they have Force then playing Agent is wrong but their line is otherwise right. If they're flooding out and know about Sword then it's close but I think your line is probably right.

Barook
03-23-2016, 04:06 PM
Unless your opponent knew that you had Sword I don't like throwing Liliana away there (I assume they +1'ed instead), so with just the information in the picture I think they made the right play. If they did know about the Sword, I don't know why they took a line that only has upside against Reality Smasher rather than keeping Agent back to hardcast what looks like a Force of Will in hand, which is only beaten by exactly Cavern into Endbringer or Smasher. In short, I still tick up Liliana there if my hand is Agent, Deathrite, Force, card worth pitching, which is the only plausible combination of cards your opponent can have if they aren't flooding out. If they're flooding out and don't know about Sword, their line is correct. If they have Force then playing Agent is wrong but their line is otherwise right. If they're flooding out and know about Sword then it's close but I think your line is probably right.
I fetched SoFaF up in G2, so at the very least, he knew it was in my deck. This was G3. He didn't know I had it in my hand though.


Ulamog pulled my ass out of the fire against Miracles when I was locked out by Moon + Mind Sculptor. Even if they don't have Moon, you'll often get to the mana to activate Eye of Ugin against them, so I think Ulamog deserves its one slot. I have considered moving Priest to the board, but it's hard to justify considering it's insane against 50% of my meta. I boarded in the extra Priest every match on Monday. There were several times where I wished I had an accelerant (either Mox or Petal) to cast Priest on turn one against the graveyard decks.

Null Rod is (along with Winter Orb) just another way to attack mana. It comes in against DnT, Miracles, Storm, and MUD and is crippling against all of them. I don't think Null Rod sideboard precludes running accelerants main just as it doesn't stop me from also boarding Jitte (I boarded both in against DnT as I would be happy to draw either). What exactly are you running for the blade plan? Just a few swords, or are you actually boarding SFM as well? I also need to figure out how to modify my manabase to more consistently have white as that was a problem.
My current list:

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Brushland
4x Cavern of Souls
1x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
3x Karakas
3x Mishra's Factory

4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x World Breaker

4x Lotus Petal
2x Warping Wail
3x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Dismember
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard:
1x Warping Wail
2x All Is Dust
3x Containment Priest
3x Rest in Peace
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of War and Peace
1x Umezawa's Jitte

As explained before, the Blade plan tries to get full coverage of all 5 colors for protection. Whether you run SoLaS or SoWaP is up to you.

iostream
03-23-2016, 05:09 PM
Some cool league results today: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-constructed-league-2016-03-23

Riehu's new WB list looks pretty fun, although I still have no idea how one can possibly run Toxic Deluge with only seven black sources in the 75, two of which are Lotus Petals.

If Deluge is the only black card we're trying to cast, I wonder if Pyroclasm or Kozilek's Return would do a better job. Most of the time you want to cast it just for 1-2 to clear random D+T dorks, Shardless Agents/Baleful Strixes, YP tokens, etc. But then the mana gets even crappier. Does an effect of this type exist in white? On an artifact?

Another idea: is Seal of Cleansing better than Disenchant? This deck kind of wants to tap out every single turn.

Cire
03-23-2016, 05:37 PM
Some cool league results today: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-constructed-league-2016-03-23

Riehu's new WB list looks pretty fun, although I still have no idea how one can possibly run Toxic Deluge with only seven black sources in the 75, two of which are Lotus Petals.

If Deluge is the only black card we're trying to cast, I wonder if Pyroclasm or Kozilek's Return would do a better job. Most of the time you want to cast it just for 1-2 to clear random D+T dorks, Shardless Agents/Baleful Strixes, YP tokens, etc. But then the mana gets even crappier. Does an effect of this type exist in white? On an artifact?

Another idea: is Seal of Cleansing better than Disenchant? This deck kind of wants to tap out every single turn.

Some thoughts:

UMEBOSHIJIISAN's colorless list running spatial contortion. I think I would rather run more jitte or warping wails there - or just dismember.
MR. RANDOM's in interesting with its 3 Endbringers, Monoliths and Sowers. Seems more top heavy than what we're used to.
RIEHU's MD Priest - is, as mentioned in our own discussions - a questionable choice, and doesn't seem to run enough black for Deluge.

But hey, they are 5-0 and I'm not :tongue:

Barook
03-23-2016, 09:36 PM
I also wonder how the MD Containment Priests work out for Riehu. 8 white sources aren't that much either. Even I run at least 11 - and that's probably two less than we should run if we go by the CFB math thread for 90% casting chance.

Riehu
03-24-2016, 02:37 AM
Good morning all.

After 5-0 I removed the MD Containment Priests as they felt bit clunky as discussed here. I moved them to sideboard and moved 1 more Toxic Deluge to main together with 2nd Jitte. With that list I did 4-1 yesterday.

Regarding the mana. For Toxic Deluge the amount of black seems bit small sometimes as I need to think about saving Lotus Petal for Deluge when I could use it for acceleration for example. Also sometimes Deluge might sit in my hand for a bit but at least most of the time so far I have been able to use is when needed. For SB Priests I have 4 Karakas, 4 Cavern, 2 Petal, 2 Karakas. I use Cavern to cast Priest when needed. I noticed though that I do not have enough white sources for RiP unfortunately. I would really like to try it vs Shardless as well.

In the next version I have included 1 more Lotus Petal and moved Deluge back to side and 2 Shriekmaw's to MD again. Tried it before with mixed results, will try again.

Barook
03-24-2016, 07:16 AM
Good morning all.

After 5-0 I removed the MD Containment Priests as they felt bit clunky as discussed here. I moved them to sideboard and moved 1 more Toxic Deluge to main together with 2nd Jitte. With that list I did 4-1 yesterday.

Regarding the mana. For Toxic Deluge the amount of black seems bit small sometimes as I need to think about saving Lotus Petal for Deluge when I could use it for acceleration for example. Also sometimes Deluge might sit in my hand for a bit but at least most of the time so far I have been able to use is when needed. For SB Priests I have 4 Karakas, 4 Cavern, 2 Petal, 2 Karakas. I use Cavern to cast Priest when needed. I noticed though that I do not have enough white sources for RiP unfortunately. I would really like to try it vs Shardless as well.

In the next version I have included 1 more Lotus Petal and moved Deluge back to side and 2 Shriekmaw's to MD again. Tried it before with mixed results, will try again.
How has the lack of MD Thorns been treating you? What were your matches in your 5-0 and 4-1 run?

I'm intrigued by the thought of running 4 Endless One in the MD as well, considering my SB Blade plan. But I can't magically conjure slots and cuts for them seem to be painful.

Riehu
03-24-2016, 08:20 AM
How has the lack of MD Thorns been treating you? What were your matches in your 5-0 and 4-1 run?

I'm intrigued by the thought of running 4 Endless One in the MD as well, considering my SB Blade plan. But I can't magically conjure slots and cuts for them seem to be painful.

I have not really missed MD Thorns, or Trinispheres. I would play either with Wastelands.

5-0 was:
Miracles
RUG delver
Mirror
Miracles
Grixis delver

and 4-1:
ANT 2-0
Miracles 2-0
Lands 0-2
Doomsday 2-0
Miracles 2-1

and latest 4-1:
Shardless 2-0
Burn 2-0
Dredge 2-0
DNT 2-0
Moggcatcher goblins 1-2 (so close)

I'm intrigued of the Swords SB, will test those at one point.

Barook
03-24-2016, 09:34 AM
I'm intrigued of the Swords SB, will test those at one point.
If you want to include Stoneforges, you must run more white sources, though.

Tested my new list with Wails. Went 4-1:

R1: Miracles 1-2 (I think I could have won this if I had played tighter)

R2: Lands 2-0 (G1 I had a fast Chalice @1 & @2 + Displacer, essentially locking him out of the game. His Thespian Stage got nuked by a T4 World Breaker, preventing him to produce Marit Lage the next turn when he dropped DD. G2 another Displacer prevented him from ever getting value out of his Marit Lage.)

R3: RUG Delver: 2-0 (G1 won by resolved Chalice @1 after the the first two got FoW'ed, G2 was won by RiP, making his Goyf and Goose a laughing stock while the beatdown ensued.)

R4: Miracles 2-0 (G1 Chalice @1, double Thorn and uncounterable Smasher beats, G2 I go for T1 Cavern --> SFM --> SoWap, which provokes a Terminus. What probably saved my ass in the long run was Wail in respone to his Jacestorm, letting me kill his Jace with SoWaP beats before it gets Terminus'ed. I get a second SFM for SoFaI, which eats a 3rd Terminus. At one point, 4 Angels stare down a World Breaker, but it wasn't enough. Eventually, I got enough mana for Eye activations and overwhelm him. I think a couple of lines could have been played better (mainly I should have fetched Displacer against Angels + Mentor, but I went for Smasher instead :rolleyes:), but it still ended up well.)

R5: Infect 2-1 (G1 won by Chalice @1 + Displacer with 9 poison counters (he tried to trick me into flickering one of his two Agents, obviously setting up a Become Immense), G2 lost due to a greedy keep + manascrew, G3 won on the back of Displacer + shittons of SoL lands)

Aside from that single Jace kill, Wail didn't come up as that relevant aside from killing 2 Infect creatures G2. But EoT instant speed tokes into equipped swings is something that I'll keep in mind as it seems intriguing.

Riehu
03-24-2016, 09:49 AM
If you want to include Stoneforges, you must run more white sources, though.



Yeah definitely.

RhoxWarMonk
03-24-2016, 10:16 AM
Finally found a link to the TMT legacy event that was talked about on the last page.

Here's the link to the top 8 decklists with the 3 Eldrazi lists

http://www.magicfriends.net/index.php?ind=news&op=news_show_single&ide=3211

Some interesting configurations. I'm testing out the Spirit Guides right now in the colorless list, hopefully will get some playtesting in this weekend.

CovenantElite30
03-24-2016, 11:34 AM
Finally found a link to the TMT legacy event that was talked about on the last page.

Here's the link to the top 8 decklists with the 3 Eldrazi lists

http://www.magicfriends.net/index.php?ind=news&op=news_show_single&ide=3211

Some interesting configurations. I'm testing out the Spirit Guides right now in the colorless list, hopefully will get some playtesting in this weekend.


Could someone post these Eldrazi lists on here, the link is blocked for me. :frown:

Thank you

RhoxWarMonk
03-24-2016, 11:42 AM
Could someone post these Eldrazi lists on here, the link is blocked for me. :frown:

Thank you

Sure :)

EDIT: I fixed their formatting, it was driving me crazy :tongue:

# Accart Jean Mary - Eldrazi Aggro - Top8

Maindeck:
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Reality Smasher
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic

2 Dismember
4 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Mox Diamond

3 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Ghost Qualrter
1 Karakas

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Endbringer
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Wastes
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 All Is Dust
1 Zuran Orb

----------------

# Tommaso Cascella - Top8

Maindeck:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Endbringer
4 Endless One
3 Matter Reshaper
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Reality Smasher
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer

4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Dismember

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
4 Eldrazi Temple

Sideboard:
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Dismember
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sphere of Resistence
1 Warping Wail
1 All Is Dust
1 Endbringer

-----------------

# Polzl Tristan - Void Drazi - Top8

Maindeck:

2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
2 Spatial Contortion

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
4 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard:
2 Wastes
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Spatial Contortion
2 Endbringer
2 Pithing Needle
3 Thorn of Amethist
1 All Is Dust
1 Null Rod

iostream
03-24-2016, 12:49 PM
# Accart Jean Mary - Eldrazi Aggro - Top8

Maindeck:
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Reality Smasher
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Endless One

(snip)
So Accart doesn't run any Eldrazi Mimics in favor of more interaction in what is otherwise a more-or-less stock aggro list (i.e. he's not cutting Mimics to run Posts + huge fatties). That's neat. Mimic does get sided out a lot, and the meta seems to have adapted pretty well to it. Easily the most interesting idea in these lists IMO.

kingtk3
03-24-2016, 01:44 PM
So Accart doesn't run any Eldrazi Mimics in favor of more interaction in what is otherwise a more-or-less stock aggro list (i.e. he's not cutting Mimics to run Posts + huge fatties). That's neat. Mimic does get sided out a lot, and the meta seems to have adapted pretty well to it. Easily the most interesting idea in these lists IMO.

I think that Lejay (aka Jean Mary Accart) played the Mimics too: in the deck are listed only 56 cards...

keys
03-24-2016, 01:54 PM
I think that Lejay (aka Jean Mary Accart) played the Mimics too: in the deck are listed only 56 cards...

I was going to say the 4 missing cards are either Mimics or Thorns. Probably Mimics.

RhoxWarMonk
03-24-2016, 01:54 PM
I think that Lejay (aka Jean Mary Accart) played the Mimics too: in the deck are listed only 56 cards...

Good catch, must have been omitted on the website (I just copy and pasted) - I'll update the list above.

metronome2charisma
03-24-2016, 09:37 PM
I"ve been creeping on the forum for a minute, i went through the trouble of reseting my password so i could reply to this thread. I would first like to say that i've been playing the deck for about a month and have had a lot of success, i have won 2 of the 3 last weekly legacy events at redcaps corner, each with about 30 people. I also played at tales of adventure last weekend with colorless eldrazi going 3-1 before losing to eli for top 8 and then the semi-mirror( they had displacer) to knock me out of top 16. which leads me to my next point. White is the way to go. Containment priest is not to cute and the deck is just better than the colorless version. the white version is SOO strong agains the mirror its ridiculous . The white version also has WAAAY more game against d/t and shardless.
Also derczo is a friend of mine and he wasn't on white. while he did say the deck was overhyped(which in my opinion it is the real deal) he also knows the deck is inherently very powerful .

Delvis
03-25-2016, 10:33 AM
I"ve been creeping on the forum for a minute, i went through the trouble of reseting my password so i could reply to this thread. I would first like to say that i've been playing the deck for about a month and have had a lot of success, i have won 2 of the 3 last weekly legacy events at redcaps corner, each with about 30 people. I also played at tales of adventure last weekend with colorless eldrazi going 3-1 before losing to eli for top 8 and then the semi-mirror( they had displacer) to knock me out of top 16. which leads me to my next point. White is the way to go. Containment priest is not to cute and the deck is just better than the colorless version. the white version is SOO strong agains the mirror its ridiculous . The white version also has WAAAY more game against d/t and shardless.
Also derczo is a friend of mine and he wasn't on white. while he did say the deck was overhyped(which in my opinion it is the real deal) he also knows the deck is inherently very powerful .

Welcome back, and thanks for the clarification on Derczo's list.

I agree that white is the definite next step for the deck. You've played the list for a while, so what is your opinion of a second color? Worth it or not? And if so, which color would you recommend? Really any of the four offer some value, although I think red is out, and probably blue, despite the success UW Eldrazi has seen in Modern.

Darklingske
03-25-2016, 02:38 PM
I'm still playing the colorless version of the deck, but I'm interested in the white list. Tomorrow I'm attending a legacy tourney here in Brussels and I'm hoping to NOT see a lot of Maverick & Shardless. In my testing these MU have proven real headaches and pretty bad for us. So I'm also wondering if the white version really improves our MU against these decks.

metronome2charisma
03-25-2016, 04:36 PM
Thank you both for the reply's About playing a second color i think that white is the ONLY other color worth going "mono-x eldrazi" BUT i think any of the other splash colors have merit especially c/w/b and c/w/g which is the list i'm on now. i'll talk about some things then post my list for reference.
When thinking about the deck its important to understand that the deck is already a colorless deck so splashing other colors is very hard because you're available fixing sucks and you really want access to white on turn 2 or 3.
Mishras factory was a very hard card to cut because what makes this deck so good is the pressure it can put on so quickly while offering up disruption that can literally 6 for 1 your opponent.
The mirror match is a very real thing in a given event because this deck is so accessible and good, what changes my mind about colorless being second best was actually getting housed by the mono white version at tales of adventure and when i say that containment priest/displacer won both of those games for my opponent i mean they were the only cards that mattered and the game was effectively over after displacer came down and officially over when containment priest came into play. then i got to sit next to him and watch him play against d/t ( same guy i lost to in rd 1 ) displacer containment priest again was the mvp it was insane.
The first few time you play the mono white version it will feel " slower " ,clunkier" and it is slightly because getting white mana is a priority and that can sometimes slow you down by what feels like a half a turn ( because you can still do things just not BIG things but you still have the ability to nut draw them .
Affter playing the deck a bit i realized that with main deck displacer ,chalice,thought-knot,revoker, that i wanted to cut down on the other disruption to make the deck take better advantage of the fast mana offered by eye of gin and the sol lands while still having access to displacer and containment priest.
A lot of people think that this deck doesn't have much card advantage and i hear people say that it doesn't have reach and i couldn't disagree more .Everything in this deck is card advantage. chalice has literally 6 for 1d opponents, thought knot seer doesn't die much, matter reshaper is a great goyf blocker that sometimes lets you draw a reality smasher or sometimes it just puts a displacer into play, revoker shuts down death rites and leds and all sorts of elves and effectively turning them into a bunch of 1/2 chump blockers . , trinisphere makes it wwwwwaaaay harder for other decks to keep up and it makes aggressive creature decks into a joke . anyway thats about all i have time for but i'll be around . heres my list

4 eldrazi mimic
4 thought knot seer
4 reality smasher
4 displacer
3 endless one
3 elvish spirit guide
2 phyrexian revoker
1 containment priest
1 endbringer
1 matter reshaper
27

4 chalice of the void
1 trinisphere
1 jitte
2 dismember
1 warping wail
9

4 tomb
4 eldrazi temple
3 eye of ugin
2 city of traitors
3 cavern of souls
4 brushlands
1 ghost quarter
1 plains
1 waste
1 karakas

sb
3 r.i.p.
2 winter orb
2 thorn
1 pithing needle
1 oblivion sower
1 warping wail
1 containment priest
2 disenchant
1 trinisphere
1 batterskull

Cire
03-25-2016, 04:43 PM
I don't understand the singleton's in your list. YOu can't search for containment priest so i have a hard time figuring out why running one in the deck is effective. Same with trinisphere. (Jitte/wail I get as they just shore up your removal numbers). And is the one reshaper really better than another Endless one?

ZEROorDIE
03-25-2016, 06:22 PM
I don't understand the singleton's in your list. YOu can't search for containment priest so i have a hard time figuring out why running one in the deck is effective. Same with trinisphere. (Jitte/wail I get as they just shore up your removal numbers). And is the one reshaper really better than another Endless one?


Also, why elvish spirit guide with no world breaker?

metronome2charisma
03-25-2016, 11:02 PM
With the meta being a large percentage eldrazi endless one isn't that good against displacers and matter reshaper lets you have more aggressive draws with endless ones and mimics while doing a great job of chumping while getting value agains anything playing goyf or knight( i.e. match ups that your most explosive draws are needed to win and card advantage is a thing that actually matters.)
the containment priest singleton is me trying to test as little white as possible and containment priest is not something i would just wanna jam on turn 2 most of the time because most of the time beating face works but its always nice to see it when i have white mana.
As for the spirit guides i just switched to the green ones in anticipation of receiving my world breaker in the mail.
The singleton trinisphere is there because i can cast it on one with a spirit guide ,its a great follow up to a chalice but its a nonbo with dismember, mimic and revoker but in general i like it more against a lot of the matchups that are bad where thorn sorta makes you less aggressive by taking up slots and not being good against creatures,honestly i just feel like the disruption with thought knot, revoker and chalice is almost just enough and as long as you have some disruption in you're opener you should be golden. i'm pretty much using 3ball as a 5th chalice and a better follow up to a turn one chalice than thorn. I like thorn but i think trinisphere just does a better job of doing what our deck needs than thorn
Essentially i'm trying to make the deck as disruptive as it needs to be but be more aggressive than most white builds while having less dead cards to side out in the mirror.

metronome2charisma
03-25-2016, 11:28 PM
Also, why elvish spirit guide with no world breaker?


The card being cut for the ONE world breaker will be batter skull. because batter skull comes in against anything with creatures and anything you expect to be a grind. and the world breaker will come in against a lot of the same match ups but actually solve a problem when coming down while being searchable with eye of ugin. T he reason i'm only testing one is because green puts the deck into three colors and pretty bad mana. I've been tempted to test lotus petals in place of the spirit guides but they just seem so much worse in almost every way except they produce white /green. ( The only reason i haven't tested lotus petal is because i only buy things in foil for my decks and i can't afford 3 lotus petals rite not)

Thereisnocomp2
03-26-2016, 12:59 AM
The card being cut for the ONE world breaker will be batter skull. because batter skull comes in against anything with creatures and anything you expect to be a grind. and the world breaker will come in against a lot of the same match ups but actually solve a problem when coming down while being searchable with eye of ugin. T he reason i'm only testing one is because green puts the deck into three colors and pretty bad mana. I've been tempted to test lotus petals in place of the spirit guides but they just seem so much worse in almost every way except they produce white /green. ( The only reason i haven't tested lotus petal is because i only buy things in foil for my decks and i can't afford 3 lotus petals rite not)



I was the white eldrazi that beat u out for Top 16. My doom has been delver, but i think i have the right cards for the matchup. Will post after GPT 1k tomorrow

metronome2charisma
03-26-2016, 08:25 AM
ahhh whats up man !! Where is this 1k gpt? i wanna go.

Thereisnocomp2
03-26-2016, 10:16 AM
Top Deck Games in Haddon Township, NJ. Two byes for Columbus to the winner and 400 cred, hopefully help me pick up another Karakas which the deck desperately wants a second of.

To keep on topic-- i have been on this deck since pre birth. Had no cards in September, bought Bw control for BFZ Standard and won states. Used winnings to buy Modern eldrazi. Preordered OGW eldrazi foil, then moved into getting Citys and Mana ramp elements before the legacy gates opened.

1) colorless is consistent, but loses many matchups it could win by being white.
2) white is infinitely more interactive a deck, which many players find a positive.
3) best sideboard cards you can imagine are all a single white:

CovenantElite30
03-26-2016, 01:39 PM
Need some help guys. Got beat pretty bad by Dredge last night so I changed my sideboard up.

I beat Miracles no problem. I feel like Eldrazi Obligator is great against any bloodmoon type deck.

Lost to Esper Stoneblade, Truename is a pain for this deck to beat. I basically lost the last game of the match to my lands :-(

I was thinking maybe taking out the one Karakas for a Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.

Any suggestions would be great. :cool:

Creatures:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
3 Eldrazi Obligator
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer

Spells:
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
1 Trinisphere
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas


Sideboard:
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Endbringer
1 Dismember
1 Warping Wail

sporenfrosch1411
03-26-2016, 03:27 PM
Any1 has tips/cards to beat Shardless Bug? I cant figure it out and keep loosing.....
(playing a pretty standard colorless list with Wastelands, Thorns, 2 Jitte, 3 Wail)

Thereisnocomp2
03-26-2016, 04:27 PM
3-0-1 ID into Top 8 (low turnout for the event only twelve players, Eastet maybe?)

Beat Miracles 2-0 (Game 1 beat Entreat, Game 2 beat Moat)

Beat Food Chain combo

Beat UG Post

ID with Infect (very, very confidant in this matchup)

Will post decklist and Top 8 notes post tournament. Lots of DnT and Miracles ( 3 each represented )

Tournament also has second Eldrazi player in this thread active, albeit having a tough day.

Biggest weakness in competitive MtG shows itself again. Top 8 against DnT i board out Containment Priest -_-. Once again, sideboard theory (and forgetting my own plans/written sb plans) comes back to bite me. Game 1 i had to mulligan to 5 for two lands, which were both City of Traitors. Game 2 i get Wasted on land 1, so i pitched the next two lands to Mox Diamonds-- only to then get blown out by double Flickerwisp.

He saw 3 StP Game 1 on my mull to five, Game 2 he denied me mana on a two land double diamond keep.

The moral of the story was that i mis-sideboarded and was punished in addition to his drawing 5 StP total in two fairly short games.

Will post list tomorrow and discuss thoughts on my current configuration, but (and i truly do not claim this often) this deck was the best in room and should've been able to complete taking down the 12 man. Didn't drop a game in swiss play either.

metronome2charisma
03-26-2016, 06:39 PM
Some key notes after todays embarrassing finish of 1-3 ( runaway for my worst finish with this deck)

Spirit guides aren't the way to go in my opinion white mana is VERY important . Having the spirit guides offers speed and doesn't require casting and offers the element of surprise but i think the amount of times having the consistency of petal is just to good not to test . There were a few times today that having petal instead of spirit guide would have changed the outcome of the game.
Beat miracles rd 1
Lost to miracles rd 2 in three games
Lost to bug food chain rd 3 he won the die roll , went off on turn three. i took game 2 with mimic tks,tks. Game three i only get to three mana before he goes off after double decay of revoker,chalice...
rd 4 lost to 12 post in 2 very bad games ,on the play chalice did nothing game 1 and tabernacle and propaganda slow me down enough for him to platinum emperion into ulamog . Game 2 goes pretty much the same way ,his draw was pretty good, mine was pretty bad .I ended the game with him at 4 and 2 displacer and a spirit guide in my hand.
I'll be around.

Please remember to use correct Capitalisation and grammar.

Dice.

CovenantElite30
03-26-2016, 09:17 PM
I can't seem to beat Esper Stoneblade.

Can someone help with a sideboarding plan for them.

What cards are good what cards are bad?

Thanks guys.

Barook
03-26-2016, 10:06 PM
I can't seem to beat Esper Stoneblade.

Can someone help with a sideboarding plan for them.

What cards are good what cards are bad?

Thanks guys.
TNN is probably the biggest problem, followed by SFM + equipment shenanigans. Baleful Strix is also a major pain in the ass if the run it.

White for Displacer would at least solve the equipment problem. But since you don't run the white splash, I would pack some All is Dusts in your 75. I also really like SoFaI against them, but I'm not sure how well it would work without SFM to fetch it up.

CovenantElite30
03-27-2016, 12:05 AM
TNN is probably the biggest problem, followed by SFM + equipment shenanigans. Baleful Strix is also a major pain in the ass if the run it.

White for Displacer would at least solve the equipment problem. But since you don't run the white splash, I would pack some All is Dusts in your 75. I also really like SoFaI against them, but I'm not sure how well it would work without SFM to fetch it up.
Hey thanks for the help.

What's your latest build? Have you had any luck against the SFM deck?

I love the idea of displacer but I feel like it maybe make your miracles match worse?

How do you deal with blood moon?

Barook
03-27-2016, 01:19 AM
What's your latest build? Have you had any luck against the SFM deck?

I love the idea of displacer but I feel like it maybe make your miracles match worse?

How do you deal with blood moon?
Still the same build with 2 MD + 1 SB Wail, but I need to stop to binge-play league games, since it really messes with my quality of play and thus, results. Turns out there's more finesse to the deck than I expected and that I can't just mindlessly smash it like an aggro deck. That, and MTGO's interface being a total shitfest with lots of opportunity to fuck up paying costs since Cavern, Temple, Tomb and City are all "special" mana lands that require extra clicks for payment (that can also be buggy). Nothing better than tapping Ancient Tomb to activate a Factory, just to end up with 2 extra damage to the face, 2 colorless uselessly floating and a tapped Factory doing jackshit. :rolleyes:

SFM decks aren't easy, but it really depends on their build. If they run SFM, Strix, 4 Snapcaster and 2+ TNN, you're not going to have a good time. Stuff like D&T can be handled better with Displacer. Maverick can be a bitch, but that is more because of KotR wrecking your manabase.

How would Displacer make the Miracle match-up worse? :really: It's not like Matter Reshaper does anything meaningful in this match.

Dealing with Blood Moon depends on the deck. World Breaker MD, SB All is Dust and depending on the deck, also the equipment plan since it doesn't require massive ramp and also works under Blood Moon.

Riehu
03-27-2016, 03:10 AM
How would Displacer make the Miracle match-up worse? :really: It's not like Matter Reshaper does anything meaningful in this match.



I removed Matter Reshapers in the colorless version vs Miracles. With Displacer version I tend to leave them in (or at least 2) just to have another insurance against miracled Terminus when I have both TKS and Displacer on board. In response to Terminus miracle trigger (the spell is in opponent's hand) you can blink TKS and remove it before they can cast it. It's not just neat, actually comes up every now and then and affects my sequencing.

Darklingske
03-27-2016, 05:52 AM
Went to my LGS with the colorless dudes yesterday. Low number of players (16) and only 4 rounds with cut to T8.
R1 against Miracles. 10 minutes later it's 2-0 for me. G1 & 2 Chalice on 1 and T2 TKS are enough. 1-0
R2 Miracles again. G1 I keep a hand with Thorn, Chalice, TKS, Karakas, Caverns & City. He dazes Chalice T1, allows T2 Thorn and Forces T3 TKS. I only see lands and lose pretty quickly. G2 mull to 5 and I never get a 3th land while a Baneslayer Angel beats down. 1-1
R3 against a teammate with Dark Maverick. I know it's gonna be a battle, but hey, that's why we're here, no? G1 mull to 5 and again stuck on 2 lands. G2 is the opposite. I'm flooded beyond believe. If I recall correct, I drew 6 lands in a row. And I kept a hand with Eye, Eye, Tomb, Waste, Chalice, Mimic, Endless. Got beaten into oblivion ofcourse. After this game I'm a little on tilt due to the deck crapping out 4 games in a row. 1-2
R4 is announced and I check standings. I'm 10th and I see that the top 8 players can all draw into T8. I seek out my table and I'm paired against UR-Delver. G1 Chalice on 1 T1 is enough. G2 double thorn and wasteland are enough to put him well behind. 2-2
I pick up my things and put on my coat and the judge announces T8 with me at the 8th place... Apparently the 4th table wanted to play and I took the last spot because of this. A bit happy and the tilt is completely gone now. :)
Quarters is against the R2 miracle player. 10 minutes later the fight is over and I'm through to the semi's.
We have to wait for 80 minutes before the other quarter is finished (Enchantress against Miracles). Semi I'm playing against another friend of mine playing UW control. G1 he spellsnares a T1 Chalice, FoW T2 TKS, plow T3 Smasher, plow Mimic T5, SCM + plow T6 TKS and Jace is the final doom. G2 FoW T1 Chalice, counterspell T3 TKS and then BOOM, T3 Back to Basics. I never see another land and I quickly die to Clique beatings.
All in all a nice day. Next testing (in a competitive environment) will be with the white splash.

Dice_Box
03-27-2016, 06:49 AM
Please use Paragraphs... That's a pain to read.

MD.Ghost
03-27-2016, 08:43 AM
I love the idea of displacer but I feel like it maybe make your miracles match worse?


Leave Displacer in vs Miracle. Not only a 3/3 is a solid beater in this matchup, it ensures that paired with TKS no Miracle should happen. Two Displacer as a Team can counter any Swords to Plowshares. Displacer can hold ground vs Mentor, shuts of stuff like Baneslayer Angel/Batterskull and can kill some Angels if you have enough Lands (mainly Temple) online. So yes Displacer can be a pain for Miracle and they also have to deal with Seer and Smasher :laugh:

Barook
03-27-2016, 01:22 PM
How has people's experience on MTGO been lately? I'm kinda getting frustated at how hostile the meta has become. While I occasionally into a Miracles deck which are easy prey, I keep getting paired against bad to super-bad match-ups, e.g. Food Chain in the previous league or 2x Lands in the latest league. My impression is that roughly 40-50% of the match-ups I'm getting right now are not in our favor or downright shit right - and that's not the spot you want to be in, especially since even favorable match-ups are no guarantee to win (like Infect on the play with a T2 kill with FoW back-up).

I do enjoy my deck and I think the build is something I would also try to acquire in Paper, but it doesn't feel like the deck is well-positioned until the hype has cooled down and people start to play more blue decks again instead of more troublesome decks.

metronome2charisma
03-27-2016, 01:32 PM
My newest list.


4 eldrazi mimic
4 thought knot seer
4 reality smasher
4 displacer
3 endless one
2 phyrexian revoker
2 containment priest
1 endbringer
1 phyrexian metamorph

25

4 chalice of the void
3 lotus petal
1 trinisphere
1 jitte
1 warping wail
10

4 tomb
4 eldrazi temple
3 eye of ugin
2 city of traitors
1 crystal vien ( dont own a 3rd city to test but i actually don't mind this card)
3 cavern of souls
4 brushlands
1 ghost quarter
1 plains
1 waste
1 karakas
25

sb
3 r.i.p.
2 winter orb
2 thorn
1 phyrexian revoker
1 oblivion sower
1 warping wail
1 ratchet bomb
2 disenchant
1 trinisphere
1 batterskull

RhoxWarMonk
03-27-2016, 03:08 PM
How has people's experience on MTGO been lately? I'm kinda getting frustated at how hostile the meta has become. While I occasionally into a Miracles deck which are easy prey, I keep getting paired against bad to super-bad match-ups, e.g. Food Chain in the previous league or 2x Lands in the latest league. My impression is that roughly 40-50% of the match-ups I'm getting right now are not in our favor or downright shit right - and that's not the spot you want to be in, especially since even favorable match-ups are no guarantee to win (like Infect on the play with a T2 kill with FoW back-up).

I do enjoy my deck and I think the build is something I would also try to acquire in Paper, but it doesn't feel like the deck is well-positioned until the hype has cooled down and people start to play more blue decks again instead of more troublesome decks.

I don't play online but locally more lands and shardless decks are popping up due to more Eldrazi pilots. Miracles, infect and storm are all there too though, which are all good matchips.

You are on the white version, is lands still a bad match up with Karakas and Displacers? I'm still playing colorless and lands is downright awful. I can 50/50 shardless but I cant do anything game 1 against Lands and even games 2-3 aren't favorable. Feels I need more game here and more Pithing needles/Karakas perhaps. They combo so fast without disruption and wasteland doesn't do shit .... tough match up.

Barook
03-27-2016, 03:22 PM
I don't play online but locally more lands and shardless decks are popping up due to more Eldrazi pilots. Miracles, infect and storm are all there too though, which are all good matchips.

You are on the white version, is lands still a bad match up with Karakas and Displacers? I'm still playing colorless and lands is downright awful. I can 50/50 shardless but I cant do anything game 1 against Lands and even games 2-3 aren't favorable. Feels I need more game here and more Pithing needles/Karakas perhaps. They combo so fast without disruption and wasteland doesn't do shit .... tough match up.
Karakas won't do jackshit against Lands since they'll likely have either Wasteland or Port for it. Sticking a Displacer is your best (and pretty much only) bet to stop Marit Lage. And even then, (multiple) Maze of Ith are a bitch to deal with. Aside from RiP, I don't think there are any cards that would turn the match-up around enough that aren't extremely narrow like Tsabo's Web.

Dice_Box
03-27-2016, 03:47 PM
Displacer is the only card I think would bother me, but since your Land base is so loopy I am not going to claim to be that bothered. Assuming I am not flayling about under serious pressure, my plan will be to wipe you of mana, then make my Witch.

Cards you want in the match are things like Warping Wail (a well timed Loam counter or Gamble can win you the game), Displacer, Bridge (Attack with Mimics and blink to deal damage) and Pithing Needle. (Name Wasteland.) Things I care less about include Karakas, Thought-Knot Seer and to a point RIP since I expect it and plan to play around it. That's not saying it's not a pain, it just back it up with something.

Really though, Lands is a Combo Control deck. Get in Faster and you are likely to cause serious pain. Your deck is aggressive, push that over any half baked plan to bounce Lage. Because if your doing your job right, I should be wanting Maze's not Stage's.

Thereisnocomp2
03-27-2016, 10:04 PM
Creatures (23)

3 Endless One
2 Containment Priest
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer

Spells (12)

3 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
1 Toxic Deluge

Lands (25)

1 Karakas
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple

Sideboard (15)

2 Pithing Needle
1 Containment Priest
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Rest in Peace
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Trinisphere
1 Coercive Portal
1 Batterskull

Factory should be 2nd Karakas but I don't own it (yet). My loss in Top 8 to Death and Taxes was on a mull to 5 Game 1 vs triple Swords to Plowshare and then forgetting how I stomped the matchup the week previous due to Containment Priest, which i proceeded to incorrectly board out. Didnt help he turn 1d a Pithing Needle on my turn 1 Jitte : /

Deluge has been amazing in testing and boosts both the DnT and Delver matchups considerably. I'm like to cut the dismember for a 2nd maindeck Deluge to allow for a Disenchant board, to beat things such as Moon, E Bridge and Moat (though having said that I beat Moat in this tournament when i didnt drop a game in Swiss)

I'm wondering if I need the 4th Rest In Peace board at all given my Priests package and still having Wail access, but it does make Lands winnable whereas it isn't in many cases.

I feel like as crazy as it sounds, i may consider moving away from maindeck Chalice next. The deck is a known quanity so there will be less of an ANT presence imo going forward. If that's a factor, i could see myself going towards Trinisphere main instead (2-3 copies) and adding likely a batterskull and stoneforge to the main, if not another jitte as it has been bonkers when in play with Displacer for me.

Dr Brian Pepper
03-27-2016, 11:28 PM
Went undeafeated at a local GPT

40 man

Decklist:

Creatures (22)
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endless One
2 Endbringer

Spells (14)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Dismember
2 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa’s Jitte

Lands (24)
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Crystal Vein
3 Mishra’s Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard (15)
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Winter Orb
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Warping Wail
1 All is Dust

CovenantElite30
03-28-2016, 12:50 AM
Went undeafeated at a local GPT

40 man

Decklist:

Creatures (22)
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endless One
2 Endbringer

Spells (14)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Dismember
2 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa’s Jitte

Lands (24)
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Crystal Vein
3 Mishra’s Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard (15)
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Winter Orb
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Warping Wail
1 All is Dust
What decks did you face?

How many rounds?

RhoxWarMonk
03-28-2016, 12:53 AM
Congrats on the finish! Anything you would change for next time? Did you miss the wastelands?

Dr Brian Pepper
03-28-2016, 02:17 AM
Congrats on the finish! Anything you would change for next time? Did you miss the wastelands?

Thank you,

Winter orb isnt good enough. I feel like regardless of how linear Tsabo's Web is, its strictly better than Winter orb in this deck.

I have not missed wastelands, but I am going to test them more as the gp approaches. I feel like this deck really wants to play on curve as much as possible, and while wasteland can be very good at some moments, I've found that the deck is just more explosive without wasteland, and actually slightly less weak to wasteland itself.

I do want to switch 1 crystal vein for a karakas, other than that I really like the deck and it performed very well.

Dnt
Burn
Goblins
Rug
Miracles

Thereisnocomp2
03-28-2016, 07:02 AM
Brian- Agreed on Winter Orb, cut it several versions ago as it does hurt you (like Wasting decks when you dont want to be waste'd yourself)

Good job, did you miss Spirit Guides? No accel means turn 1 chalice is less likely. Also how many rounds and what were Top 8 matchups?

Admiral_Arzar
03-28-2016, 10:44 AM
Karakas won't do jackshit against Lands since they'll likely have either Wasteland or Port for it. Sticking a Displacer is your best (and pretty much only) bet to stop Marit Lage. And even then, (multiple) Maze of Ith are a bitch to deal with. Aside from RiP, I don't think there are any cards that would turn the match-up around enough that aren't extremely narrow like Tsabo's Web.

Winter Orb is my go-to sideboard card for Lands, and is also relevant against any other big-mana type decks. I would say if your meta is lands, miracles, and stuff like 12-post and MUD maybe Winter Orb is your card. If your meta is full of Lands and DnT I would just bite the bullet and run Tsabo's Web.

Dr Brian Pepper
03-28-2016, 12:20 PM
Winter Orb is my go-to sideboard card for Lands, and is also relevant against any other big-mana type decks. I would say if your meta is lands, miracles, and stuff like 12-post and MUD maybe Winter Orb is your card. If your meta is full of Lands and DnT I would just bite the bullet and run Tsabo's Web.

I dont even think Winter orb is good against Miracles, they can play around it pretty easily.

I listed the match ups, it was 6 rounds, very heavy RUG/DNT field

and yeah I always like the guides, but decided that Jitte just needed to be main, and with 2 veins it somewhats makes up for some explosiveness of the deck .

RhoxWarMonk
03-28-2016, 12:44 PM
I'm thinking of giving the white splash a spin, any suggestions to the list below?

I haven't tried the white splash yet, so this will be my first attempt (currently been focusing on the colorless version, with pretty good success).

Creatures
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endless One
1 World Breaker

Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Dismember
2 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa’s Jitte

Lands
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Brushland
2 Karakas

Still not sure about my SB yet, I think my list might be much too greedy to splash any other white cards without lotus petals or mox diamonds but I honestly am not sure -- RiP would go a long way in shoring up some of the more problematic matchups. Also feels too creature heavy and may need more lock pieces or Dismembers main but I haven't found them to be useful in every matchup, so some number of them will be in the side as well.

As a side note, I am LOVING Jitte -- been very solid for me in the colorless version so far, hopefully can work well in this one as well with the high creature base (I run factories in the colorless version, to make sure I have enough threats for Jitte to really matter).

TTX
03-28-2016, 01:19 PM
Ankh of Mishra > Wintet Orb


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Delvis
03-28-2016, 01:35 PM
Ankh of Mishra > Wintet Orb

This is an intriguing idea, so I'd really appreciate if you could give it a little more meat rather than just throwing out Ankh of Mishra as better than Orb like it's self-evident.

TTX
03-28-2016, 03:50 PM
This is an intriguing idea, so I'd really appreciate if you could give it a little more meat rather than just throwing out Ankh of Mishra as better than Orb like it's self-evident.

Miracles needs land quantity, and their deck is equipped to dodge the slowing effect of Winter Orb. They however cannot stall with Ankh in play. It's a "must answer" card, while Winter Orb is not.
Lands needs to make land drops to win, over and over again. Any game that they do not have turn 4 Marit Lage should yield a win for Eldrazi with Ankh in play.

Delvis
03-28-2016, 04:23 PM
Miracles needs land quantity, and their deck is equipped to dodge the slowing effect of Winter Orb. They however cannot stall with Ankh in play. It's a "must answer" card, while Winter Orb is not.
Lands needs to make land drops to win, over and over again. Any game that they do not have turn 4 Marit Lage should yield a win for Eldrazi with Ankh in play.

Thanks! I agree. Though it's a much worse top-deck, Ankh seems quite strong in those matchups. And for those of us still running Metamorph, it seems excellent in multiples.

Ankh seems weirdly underplayed in Legacy in general, for a format so dependent upon fetchlands.

Cire
03-28-2016, 04:26 PM
I think it's not played precisely for that reason - if you have a deck that doesn't top-deck well, like we have, you tend to avoid running cards that are terrible top-decks. Is it a good turn 1 play - yeah, but so are so many other cards. Is it a better turn 1 play - sure, maybe. But is it a better play turns 2-4+? I'm not convinced.

metronome2charisma
03-28-2016, 04:47 PM
Winter orb has been awesome for me against pretty much anything that isn't delver/ combo/ trying to kill you in one turn. not to mention working well with sol lands and eye of ugin in particular. Ive played it in both versions and think it works BEST in the colorless build but is still really good in mono-white.
Winter orb is also best used when already ahead on board so sandbagging it isn't unheard of, just jamming winter orb into play gives you opponent the ability to play around it and map their turns .Letting them tap out (or close) can be game ending.

metronome2charisma
03-28-2016, 04:53 PM
I think it's not played precisely for that reason - if you have a deck that doesn't top-deck well, like we have, you tend to avoid running cards that are terrible top-decks. Is it a good turn 1 play - yeah, but so are so many other cards. Is it a better turn 1 play - sure, maybe. But is it a better play turns 2-4+? I'm not convinced.

This deck top decks like a champion...22-24 creatures plus jitte the power level of most of our creatures is huge. i feel like we win top deck wars almost all the time. Anyone else fell the same way or am i off base?

Barook
03-28-2016, 05:16 PM
Ankh deserves testing, since turning fetchlands into 5 damage early on sounds pretty good.

On the flipside, the topdeck issue has already been mentioned. Given the amount of self-damage the deck deals to itself and how mana-hungry it is, I could also see the Ankh plan backfire.

Cire
03-28-2016, 05:19 PM
This deck top decks like a champion...22-24 creatures plus jitte the power level of most of our creatures is huge. i feel like we win top deck wars almost all the time. Anyone else fell the same way or am i off base?

I think I what I meant to say was the lack of drawing power or card selection power (Cantrip Cartel, BOB, Etc). We have good cards, but if we are in top deck mode, then I do not think we are a good position. We have a 33-40% of hitting a land, plus a 10-13% chance of hitting a prison piece, so off the bat our top deck is either 43-53% useless, and even then it depends on what we're drawing for the situtation. By the time we're in top deck Mimic will probably be pointless (around 6-7%), and warping wail too most likely (another 6-7% of uselessness) - Think further . . . Jitte will also probably not help you at this point. . . how can it unless you have an active smasher and can connect with it? (3-4%). So top deck is what now. . . 58-71% useless. Doesn't seem like a great place to be in.

Amon Amarth
03-29-2016, 12:42 AM
Thanks! I agree. Though it's a much worse top-deck, Ankh seems quite strong in those matchups. And for those of us still running Metamorph, it seems excellent in multiples.

Ankh seems weirdly underplayed in Legacy in general, for a format so dependent upon fetchlands.

Mostly because so many decks play fetchlands that it is unusual for any deck NOT to play them, even monocolored decks like Burn or High Tide. Makes Ankh difficult to utilize. But it is sweet tech though.

Thereisnocomp2
03-29-2016, 04:32 PM
I think Coercive Portal is the next biggest testing, followed by maindeck Batterskull or SoFaF. Additional discard and untapping lands seems great, as does protecting mimics into goyfs. With Displacer, untapping your mana seems incrediblllly powerful IMO.

Deluge just isn't leaving my maindeck ever again, card is absurd with the P/T on these eldrazi creatures.

Barook
03-29-2016, 04:56 PM
I think Coercive Portal is the next biggest testing, followed by maindeck Batterskull or SoFaF. Additional discard and untapping lands seems great, as does protecting mimics into goyfs. With Displacer, untapping your mana seems incrediblllly powerful IMO.

Deluge just isn't leaving my maindeck ever again, card is absurd with the P/T on these eldrazi creatures.
I've run MD Batterskull before. Not really a fan, since 5 mana for a non-Eldrazi card is pretty damn pricy. More often than not, it will end up in your hand uncastable. SoFaF is the weakest out of the 3 Swords I run in my Blade plan and is essentially only good when you run into green roadblocks. Interactions with Displacer or combat step Eye of Ugin activations are nifty, but haven't really come up for me so far. Only Factory + SoFaF was a thing once or twice. If you really want to run SoFaF, I would rather run it as a SB card to bring it in where it's really needed as evasion tech.

Captain Hammer
03-29-2016, 05:16 PM
Just an update regarding my testing results with this deck. After testing various builds, the Tangle Lockdown build below is the one that has functioned the strongest for me against a wide variety of matchups.

4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
2 Dismember
1 Warping Wail

Sideboard:
4 Thorn of Amethyst (Vs. Combo, Delver, Tempo etc.)
3 Faerie Macabre (Vs. Graveyard Shenanigans.)
3 Tsabo's Web (Vs. Lands, Maze of Ith, Rishidan Port etc.)
3 Damping Matrix (Vs. Maverick, Elves, D&T etc.)
2 All is Dust (Vs. Various Colored Decks.)

x4 Tangle Wire - Tangle Wire is great to either lock down your opponent after you resolve a big threat, or just to slow them to a crawl while you make enough land drops to achieve inevitability.

3x Damping Matrix - This card has been absolutely fantastic. I find myself siding it in more often than not since it shuts down so many different annoyances.

x4 Endless One – Does an excellent job of smoothing out the deck’s mana curve. It can plop down as a 2/2 on turn one or as a 12/12 in the mid/lategame, making it a solid threat regardless of when you draw it.

x4 Conduit of Ruin - I continue to feel that Conduit of Ruin is the most underrated and underutilized Eldrazi. It's a beater, a mana accelerant and a tutor all in one card. With a manabase that supports 24 Sol Lands, it’s a god send.

x1 Breaker of Armies – The best available Conduit of Ruin target when you’re stuck at 3 Sol Lands/6 mana. Against creature based decks, it's a one sided wrath that makes you can swing with everything you have without having to fear an attack back. It also makes it so all of your other creatures get through to deal the maximum amount of damage, enough to outright win you the game some times. Making your mimic into a 10/8 for a turn is pretty good as well.

x1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger – A tutorable answer to Ensnaring Bridge, Moat, Worship and any number of other cards that would otherwise ruin your day. Thanks to Conduit of Ruin, it frequently comes out on turn 4, and it almost always puts your opponent in an unwinnable position the turn it is cast, even if it gets countered.

x2 Dismember – The best early game removal (mid to late game, All is Dust is stronger) this deck has access to. There’s very few threats that Dismember doesn’t kill outright. Warping Wail and even Spatial Contortion to some degree are more flexible alternatives depending on the meta, but neither card deals with nearly as many threats as Dismember does making it well worth maindecking as a two of in most metagames.


Regarding the large land count, a manabase like this both gives the deck resiliency to wastelands, and between Conduit, Eye, All is Dust and the two Ulamog's you rarely mind having tons of mana.

x4 Ancient Tomb – Sol Land #1-4. Due to the more aggressive nature of this deck, it can cope with the lifeloss better than Turbo Eldrazi. The ability to power out a Chalice at 1 on turn 1 makes it an automatic 4 of in this list.

x4 City of Traitors – Sol Land #5-8. Since the deck functionally plays 24 Sol Lands, it just needs 3 of any combination of it’s 24 Sol Lands in the first 10 cards to be able to top off it’s mana curve and lay down Conduit of Ruins (which make the other threats in the deck even cheaper to cast). Due to requiring such a low number of lands to top off the curve, City of Traitors is almost always the perfect land to plop down turn 3.

x4 Eldrazi Temple – Sol Land #9-12. Temples can be played in multiples, is a great target for Vesuva, and given the high density of Eldrazi spells, it is bar none the best land in the deck. Play four copies, always.

x4 Eye of Ugin – Sol Land #13-16. Despite the fact that Eye is legendary, I play 4 due to the high density of Eldrazi spells in the maindeck and the fact that it's tutoring effect is so much more usable here thanks to Cloudpost mana. Yes you will have the occasional opening hand with 2 Eye of Ugins. But just as frequently, an Eye of Ugin in your opening hand pumps out multiple Eldrazi Mimics and Endless Ones turn one followed by a Thought-Knot Seer turn 2, a Conduit of Ruin turn 3 and an Ulamog turn 4. It’s a frequent Wasteland target so it’s not always bad to have in multiples.

x4 Cloudpost – Sol Land #17-20. Quite possibly the second best land in the deck. Even if you have only one post land in your opening hand, there are still 3 Cloudposts, 3 Glimmerposts, and 3 Vesuva left in the deck so the odds are fairly good that Cloudpost will be tapping for atleast 2 mana by midgame. Thus Cloudpost effectively functions as yet another Sol Land in this deck.

x3 Vesuva – Sol Land #21-23. Between 4 Cloudposts, 4 Eldrazi Temples and 4 Ancient Tomb, you’re never lacking for Vesuva targets, and this land essentially functions as Sol land 21-23 as a result. It can even gain you life by copying a Glimmerpost if you’re down to single digits. However, the fact that it comes into play tapped is enough to make it a 3 of.

x1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth – As a 1 of in a build that plays 4 Eye of Ugin, this land functions as Sol Land #24 more often than not. The main reason the cards is worth playing is that it lets you tap Eye of Ugin to generate an additional B mana but it has the additional function of allowing Dismember to be castable without the lifeloss. It can also be very helpful if you side in Oblivion Sowers against a matchup that plays fetchlands, for obvious reasons.

x3 Glimmerpost – I have frequently gone back and forth on playing a full playset main deck. The life gain can be helpful in some matchups. However, the fact that it produces only 1 mana a turn while every other land in the deck on average generates 2 or more mana every turn makes Glimmervoid one of the weakest links in the mana base.

Holly
03-30-2016, 09:00 AM
Still restricted on time but managed to squeeze in the Jund matchup.

Thereisnocomp2
03-30-2016, 09:11 AM
Captain Hammer/- Just going to be frank when i say i dont like Winter Orb in our deck, and i cannot imagine Tangle Wire is going to make me feel much safer. Granted the effects are different, but it still feels counterintuitive to the overall deck, which is to make use of mana better than other decks can due to SoL lands and cost effective eldrazi creatures.

Barook- Thanks for the heads up on Batterskull testing being less than excellent for you, i will likey skip over it thanks to your information for the time being.

But how has SoFaF not been impressive vs something like DNT? I fee like they can block a 3/3 displacer but not a 5/5 and then suddenly you have likely two flickers open on the untap while they lose additional resources from hand? I feel like your experience is of boarded SoFaF and therefore you haven't lived full interaction on the weaker matchups side to see what it's like. Sure you dont get Plowshare protection, any sword equipped is bolt protection, but you get incredibly relevant abilities to our deck.

Still not ready to try the Death and Eldrazi version with maindeck Stoneforge, but i am becoming more and more intrigued as the meta becomes more fair to combat Eldrazi lockout pieces.

Barook
03-30-2016, 10:35 AM
Captain Hammer/- Just going to be frank when i say i dont like Winter Orb in our deck, and i cannot imagine Tangle Wire is going to make me feel much safer. Granted the effects are different, but it still feels counterintuitive to the overall deck, which is to make use of mana better than other decks can due to SoL lands and cost effective eldrazi creatures.

Barook- Thanks for the heads up on Batterskull testing being less than excellent for you, i will likey skip over it thanks to your information for the time being.

But how has SoFaF not been impressive vs something like DNT? I fee like they can block a 3/3 displacer but not a 5/5 and then suddenly you have likely two flickers open on the untap while they lose additional resources from hand? I feel like your experience is of boarded SoFaF and therefore you haven't lived full interaction on the weaker matchups side to see what it's like. Sure you dont get Plowshare protection, any sword equipped is bolt protection, but you get incredibly relevant abilities to our deck.

Still not ready to try the Death and Eldrazi version with maindeck Stoneforge, but i am becoming more and more intrigued as the meta becomes more fair to combat Eldrazi lockout pieces.
That's the best case scenario that you actually connect with a non-trampler instead of getting chumpblocked. Don't expect Displacer to stick, considering it's probably THE primary target for them since it can stop their flyers (mainly Avenger, Flickerwisp is so-so as target) and screws with their equipment plan big time. I would rather have a Jitte in that match.

keys
03-30-2016, 12:11 PM
Deluge just isn't leaving my maindeck ever again, card is absurd with the P/T on these eldrazi creatures.

How many black sources do you run and how many Deluge?



4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
2 Dismember
1 Warping Wail

Sideboard:
4 Thorn of Amethyst (Vs. Combo, Delver, Tempo etc.)
3 Faerie Macabre (Vs. Graveyard Shenanigans.)
3 Tsabo's Web (Vs. Lands, Maze of Ith, Rishidan Port etc.)
3 Damping Matrix (Vs. Maverick, Elves, D&T etc.)
2 All is Dust (Vs. Various Colored Decks.)


I like this direction. It's similar to the Eldrazi-Tron style colorless versions I've seen in Modern, basically subbing Locus for Tron lands. You stay colorless to enable more explosive plays, while at the same time being able to answer problem permanents and win the mirror match. With Conduit/Ulamog you can go long.

Even if the hyper aggro version ends up being better over the long term, as Eldrazi hype dies down and Moon/Bridge effects become less common, I think Conduit+Ulamog (or Sower+Ulamog) is a solid SB plan (instead of Worldbreaker or Displacer which make your manabase much less consistent).

iostream
03-30-2016, 02:30 PM
Anyone tried Helm of Obedience, as did this guy who took down a 300-person tournament in Japan? http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=11998&d=268785&f=LE

Thereisnocomp2
03-30-2016, 02:36 PM
Anyone tried Helm of Obedience, as did this guy who took down a 300-person tournament in Japan? http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=11998&d=268785&f=LE


I was just wondering what it was for or how it worked myself, newer to Legacy as of three months ago haven't been in for ages, i know RiP and Helm is a two card combo, but I'm unsure what decks we want to board such a combo in against, especially if you are on nonwhite Leyline of the Void plans....

@keys-- i run two Toxic Deluge with 9 black sources between 4 CoK, 2 Urborg and 3 Mox Diamond.

RhoxWarMonk
03-30-2016, 03:07 PM
I was just wondering what it was for or how it worked myself, newer to Legacy as of three months ago haven't been in for ages, i know RiP and Helm is a two card combo, but I'm unsure what decks we want to board such a combo in against, especially if you are on nonwhite Leyline of the Void plans....

@keys-- i run two Toxic Deluge with 9 black sources between 4 CoK, 2 Urborg and 3 Mox Diamond.

Thing is, he isn't even playing RiP in the side -- what does he board the Helms in against?

iostream
03-30-2016, 03:48 PM
Thing is, he isn't even playing RiP in the side -- what does he board the Helms in against?he plays LotV. The combo is still there.

RhoxWarMonk
03-30-2016, 03:50 PM
he plays LotV. The combo is still there.

Ah good catch, you're absolutely right...

Just seems like a weird/awkward combo finisher to me. Maybe against lots of hate? IE BloodBridge.dec?

Captain Hammer
03-30-2016, 03:56 PM
Captain Hammer/- Just going to be frank when i say i dont like Winter Orb in our deck, and i cannot imagine Tangle Wire is going to make me feel much safer. Granted the effects are different, but it still feels counterintuitive to the overall deck, which is to make use of mana better than other decks can due to SoL lands and cost effective eldrazi creatures.

The effects are VERY different. Winter Orb is symmetrical. Tangle Wire is assymetrical. Both Winter Orb and Tangle Wire are capable of converting a board advantage into a win. However, that's where the comparison ends.

Where as Winter Orb slows your own deck down, Tangle Wire functions as a multiturn Time Walk. You tap your Tangle Wire, Eye of Ugin and Chalice of the Void and continue to play out your threats with your game plan and mana development completely unaffected. Meanwhile your opponent is stuck tapping down everything they own for 2-3 turns.


Thing is, he isn't even playing RiP in the side -- what does he board the Helms in against?

Against any matchups where leyline is worth siding in, but is not so crucial that you would mulligan till you have one in your opening hand, side in...
4 Leyline
2 Helm

Against any matchups where you would mulligan till you get Leyline in your opening hand (dredge etc), bring in
4 Leyline
3 Helm

Leyline can be hardcast thanks to Urborg when needed.

Helm is an a solid alternate win condition that dodges Ensnaring Bridge/Maze of Ith and odds are, your opponent already sided out any maindeck means they had to deal with it. Plus it isn't completely useless on its own, it can still grab an Emrakul or Griselbrand or anything Reanimator runs.

Next weekend, I'll take the below list for a spin and see how useful the Helm + Leyline combo ends up being.

4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Warping Wail
2 Trinisphere
2 Dismember
1 Umejawa's Jitte

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
3-2 Helm of Obedience
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tsabo's Web
2 Damping Matrix
2 All is Dust

2x Damping Matrix - This card has been absolutely fantastic. I find myself siding it in more often than not since it shuts down so many different annoyances.

x4 Endless One – Does an excellent job of smoothing out the deck’s mana curve. It can plop down as a 2/2 on turn one or as a 12/12 in the mid/lategame, making it a solid threat regardless of when you draw it.

x4 Conduit of Ruin - I continue to feel that Conduit of Ruin is the most underrated and underutilized Eldrazi. It's a beater, a mana accelerant and a tutor all in one card. With a manabase that supports 24 Sol Lands, it’s a god send.

x1 Breaker of Armies – The best available Conduit of Ruin target when you’re stuck at 3 Sol Lands/6 mana. Against creature based decks, it's a one sided wrath that makes you can swing with everything you have without having to fear an attack back. It also makes it so all of your other creatures get through to deal the maximum amount of damage, enough to outright win you the game some times. Making your mimic into a 10/8 for a turn is pretty good as well.

x1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger – A tutorable answer to Ensnaring Bridge, Moat, Worship and any number of other cards that would otherwise ruin your day. Thanks to Conduit of Ruin, it frequently comes out on turn 4, and it almost always puts your opponent in an unwinnable position the turn it is cast, even if it gets countered.

x2 Dismember – The best early game removal (mid to late game, All is Dust is stronger) this deck has access to. There’s very few threats that Dismember doesn’t kill outright. Warping Wail and even Spatial Contortion to some degree are more flexible alternatives depending on the meta, but neither card deals with nearly as many threats as Dismember does making it well worth maindecking as a two of in most metagames.


Regarding the large land count, a manabase like this both gives the deck resiliency to wastelands, and between Conduit, Eye, All is Dust and the two Ulamog's you rarely mind having tons of mana.

x4 Ancient Tomb – Sol Land #1-4. Due to the more aggressive nature of this deck, it can cope with the lifeloss better than Turbo Eldrazi. The ability to power out a Chalice at 1 on turn 1 makes it an automatic 4 of in this list.

x3 City of Traitors – Sol Land #5-8. Since the deck functionally plays 24 Sol Lands, it just needs 3 of any combination of it’s 24 Sol Lands in the first 10 cards to be able to top off it’s mana curve and lay down Conduit of Ruins (which make the other threats in the deck even cheaper to cast). Due to requiring such a low number of lands to top off the curve, City of Traitors is almost always the perfect land to plop down turn 3.

x4 Eldrazi Temple – Sol Land #9-12. Temples can be played in multiples, is a great target for Vesuva, and given the high density of Eldrazi spells, it is bar none the best land in the deck. Play four copies, always.

x4 Eye of Ugin – Sol Land #13-16. Despite the fact that Eye is legendary, I play 4 due to the high density of Eldrazi spells in the maindeck and the fact that it's tutoring effect is so much more usable here thanks to Cloudpost mana. Yes you will have the occasional opening hand with 2 Eye of Ugins. But just as frequently, an Eye of Ugin in your opening hand pumps out multiple Eldrazi Mimics and Endless Ones turn one followed by a Thought-Knot Seer turn 2, a Conduit of Ruin turn 3 and an Ulamog turn 4. It’s a frequent Wasteland target so it’s not always bad to have in multiples.

x4 Cloudpost – Sol Land #17-20. Quite possibly the second best land in the deck. Even if you have only one post land in your opening hand, there are still 3 Cloudposts, 3 Glimmerposts, and 3 Vesuva left in the deck so the odds are fairly good that Cloudpost will be tapping for atleast 2 mana by midgame. Thus Cloudpost effectively functions as yet another Sol Land in this deck.

x3 Vesuva – Sol Land #21-23. Between 4 Cloudposts, 4 Eldrazi Temples and 4 Ancient Tomb, you’re never lacking for Vesuva targets, and this land essentially functions as Sol land 21-23 as a result. It can even gain you life by copying a Glimmerpost if you’re down to single digits. However, the fact that it comes into play tapped is enough to make it a 3 of.

x2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth – As a 1 of in a build that plays 4 Eye of Ugin, this land functions as Sol Land #24 more often than not. The main reason the cards is worth playing is that it lets you tap Eye of Ugin to generate an additional B mana but it has the additional function of allowing Dismember to be castable without the lifeloss. It can also be very helpful if you side in Oblivion Sowers against a matchup that plays fetchlands, for obvious reasons.

x3 Glimmerpost – I have frequently gone back and forth on playing a full playset main deck. The life gain can be helpful in some matchups. However, the fact that it produces only 1 mana a turn while every other land in the deck on average generates 2 or more mana every turn makes Glimmervoid one of the weakest links in the mana base.

Barook
03-30-2016, 04:29 PM
Ah good catch, you're absolutely right...

Just seems like a weird/awkward combo finisher to me. Maybe against lots of hate? IE BloodBridge.dec?
That certainly is an interesting way to tackle things. Assuming you can land the Leyline T0, it's another way to get around Blood Moon and Bridge. Leyline also can't be touched by Abrupt Decay. In Magical Christmasland, it's also a potential T2 kill. I could see it working.

What I don't understand are the additional Sphere effects. You already destroy Storm with the MD cards - why the extra effects. Faerie Macabre I can see as additional GY hate since 4 copies without library manipulation just doesn't cut it.

Overall, a pretty interesting build. I can see it performing way better against Lands they can't Maze your ass into oblivion and the Decays in their new builds do jackshit against the alternave wincon. If you take down a 300 man tournament, you can hardly argue with the results. I'll probably bite the bullet and acquire the Helmets/Leylines and test it since it looks good.

iostream
03-30-2016, 04:59 PM
That certainly is an interesting way to tackle things. Assuming you can land the Leyline T0, it's another way to get around Blood Moon and Bridge. Leyline also can't be touched by Abrupt Decay. In Magical Christmasland, it's also a potential T2 kill. I could see it working.

What I don't understand are the additional Sphere effects. You already destroy Storm with the MD cards - why the extra effects. Faerie Macabre I can see as additional GY hate since 4 copies without library manipulation just doesn't cut it.

Overall, a pretty interesting build. I can see it performing way better against Lands they can't Maze your ass into oblivion and the Decays in their new builds do jackshit against the alternave wincon. If you take down a 300 man tournament, you can hardly argue with the results. I'll probably bite the bullet and acquire the Helmets/Leylines and test it since it looks good.
Should be noted that aside from Helm/Leyline, it's a stock list, and Helm can just as easily be thrown into the white lists that run RiP in the side.

Barook
03-30-2016, 05:24 PM
Should be noted that aside from Helm/Leyline, it's a stock list, and Helm can just as easily be thrown into the white lists that run RiP in the side.
I could see it working as an alternative to the Blade plan, since both dodge the unpleasant roadblocks. RiP requires white mana and can be hit by AD, which might come up as problem at times.

Edit: Quick untested sample list:

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Brushland
4x Cavern of Souls
1x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
3x Karakas
2x Mishra's Factory
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x World Breaker

4x Lotus Petal
2x Warping Wail
3x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Dismember
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard:
1x Warping Wail
2x All Is Dust
3x Containment Priest
6x Rest in Peace/Leyline of the Void (currently unknown what the best split is, might be either 3/3; I'll go 4/2 at the beginning)
3 Helm of Obedience

How necessary Containment Priests are in this configuration is up to debate, but they have extra utility vs Elves, GSZ, Sneak & Show and combo with Displacer. I could see one Priest becoming a second Jitte, though.

Thereisnocomp2
03-30-2016, 06:24 PM
What bad matchups would we bring in Helm Combo against though? I mean coming from the perspective of the White version, i don't know what matchups i want it in. Against anything with Force/Daze like Reanimator -- it doesn't run Bridge in general and I've not thought how Helm is relevant against countermagic decks. Seems strictly worse than Wails/GY Hate/Displacer (in white versions).

Against Imperial Painter is the question but i just assumed that was where we decided we can't win since White fixes the Lands, SnShow and Death and Taxes (not all necessarily favorable, just much more even)

Barook- I think the minimum threat count in these decks has two be 20 before considering things like Warping Wail for an equipped dude or Mishras Factory as a reliable threat. I would consider cutting the second worldbreaker adding an three endless one and 1 endbringer. You cut all the End out of the deck, that sounds rough. Your manabase is also incredibly questionable with only 1 City and 3 Karakas-- as Eye flood has to be more valuable and still occurs on occasion. Lotus Petal is acceptable but Mox Diamond would allow you to play more Karakas and Cities with less punishment and make RIP/Displacer draws smoother.

I do like the idea that you can play 3 leyline and 2/3 RiP with the helms, but i almost want to play Enlightened Tutur in that case and dig into possibly Stoneforge slots so we don't end up straining the sideboard with 8+ cards dedicated to a combo that is disrupted (without answer on our end) by Pithing Needle if the opponent is aware, assuming the combo is worth having against them in the first place.

Captain- You have me rethinking Tangle Wire lines of play, so perhaps it is more viable than I'd first considered.

Additionally, i think Priest is just too good. Good vs Elves, DnT, SnS, Reanimator and bad vs Delver, Miracles and Lands. Even in those matchups, the combo with displacer is relevant enough vs Delver to say the card has roughly 2 poor matchups and is a minimal 3 in any variant that can afford the mana requirements.

Cire
03-30-2016, 06:50 PM
For those running Containment - out of curiosity:

1) How many white sources are you running?
2) Do you include Caverns as part of that Total?
3) How painful is it to use Caverns for Humans and not Eldrazi?

Barook
03-30-2016, 07:15 PM
For those running Containment - out of curiosity:

1) How many white sources are you running?
2) Do you include Caverns as part of that Total?
3) How painful is it to use Caverns for Humans and not Eldrazi?
1) Eleven actual white sources - see above
2) No
3) Depends -against decks with counters, I still prefer Eldrazi on my first Cavern since they're the majority of the deck. Second Cavern is fair game, though.

iostream
03-30-2016, 07:21 PM
For those running Containment - out of curiosity:

1) How many white sources are you running?
2) Do you include Caverns as part of that Total?
3) How painful is it to use Caverns for Humans and not Eldrazi?Caveat: not an expert on the white splash, this is just what I'm testing, and it's been ok, but no claims as to whether it's optimal.

1) I have 2 Lotus Petal, 4 Caves of Koilos, 1 Battlefield Forge, 2 Karakas, and 4 Cavern as MD white sources, and the other 2 Lotus Petal in the side. The logic behind sideboard Petals is partially to up the white source count when you bring in RiPs and stuff, and partially because there are some matchups where the games end so quickly that you don't care about your topdecks being worse. Think things like Dredge or Reanimator, where being 1 turn late on your lock piece is the difference between winning and losing. Not every matchup is like this. I have enjoyed this split quite a lot.

2) I do count Caverns as sources.

3) Cavern on Human only doesn't suck if (a) you are not playing against a blue deck, or (b) you have another white source. Sometimes you have to do it anyway despite these conditions not being met because Priest is more important than any other Eldrazi (e.g. against Reanimator), but it feels horrible.

keys
03-30-2016, 07:42 PM
@keys-- i run two Toxic Deluge with 9 black sources between 4 CoK, 2 Urborg and 3 Mox Diamond.

Sorry I'm blanking... CoK?

RhoxWarMonk
03-30-2016, 07:43 PM
For those running Containment - out of curiosity:

1) How many white sources are you running?
2) Do you include Caverns as part of that Total?
3) How painful is it to use Caverns for Humans and not Eldrazi?

I actually have a similar question (not to hijack yours) ;)

How many white sources are enough to run 4 Displacers? What about 4 Displacers and 3 RiP? And lastly, what about a 4/3/2 split with 2 Containment Priest?

I'm also curious about Toxic Deluge but I want to splash green for World Breaker and splashing BOTH is really not an option. Still curious to hear how people have found it as a few lists online have been successful with it. Gives the added bonus of MAYBE not having to use Urborg to cast LotV.

RhoxWarMonk
03-30-2016, 07:44 PM
Sorry I'm blanking... CoK?

Caves of Koilos

Thereisnocomp2
03-30-2016, 07:49 PM
Between 3 Diamond, 4 Caves of Koilos, 1 Karakas and 4 Caverns I haven't had much trouble getting white when needed. That said, I've yet to actually board into RiP so i haven't been considering my non Cavern white mana for turn two just tet. I'd like a second Karakas in a perfect world, for 9 white sources and 8 black sources for noncreature spells, i just need to win a Karakas.

Barook
03-30-2016, 08:06 PM
I actually have a similar question (not to hijack yours) ;)

How many white sources are enough to run 4 Displacers? What about 4 Displacers and 3 RiP? And lastly, what about a 4/3/2 split with 2 Containment Priest?

I'm also curious about Toxic Deluge but I want to splash green for World Breaker and splashing BOTH is really not an option. Still curious to hear how people have found it as a few lists online have been successful with it. Gives the added bonus of MAYBE not having to use Urborg to cast LotV.
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/

The number you're looking for is 13. My old list had 12 white sources post-board; after cutting the Mox Diamonds, I'm down to 11. I haven't played enough games yet to figure out the impact of that decision.

Both Lotus Petal and Mox Diamond provide accel and mana fixing. I would consider those if you want to go down that route.

World Breaker needs less green since it comes down later, giving you more turns to find your mana, and is castable with Cavern. If you cut down on the Wasteland/Factory slots, I could see a combination of mainly Caves of Koilos with some Brushlands alongside Lotus Petal (and Mox Diamond) working. Or run Tendo Ice Bridge if that is your cup of tea.

RhoxWarMonk
03-30-2016, 08:12 PM
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/

The number you're looking for is 13. My old list had 12 white sources post-board; after cutting the Mox Diamonds, I'm down to 11. I haven't played enough games yet to figure out the impact of that decision.

Both Lotus Petal and Mox Diamond provide accel and mana fixing. I would consider those if you want to go down that route.

World Breaker needs less green since it comes down later, giving you more turns to find your mana, and is castable with Cavern. If you cut down on the Wasteland/Factory slots, I could see a combination of mainly Caves of Koilos with some Brushlands alongside Lotus Petal (and Mox Diamond) working. Or run Tendo Ice Bridge if that is your cup of tea.

Thanks for the link, that was some great info... So, I'd need 13 white sources to reliably cast Displacer on turn 2 - yikes, that is quite a lot! I'm currently only running 10 (4 painland/4 CoS/2 Karakas).

Are you not running any Mox Diamond anymore? Just one Petal? If you are down to 11 white sources, are you still able to reliably cast Displacer and RiP when you want to and lastly, are you running Containment Priest?

Barook
03-30-2016, 08:31 PM
Thanks for the link, that was some great info... So, I'd need 13 white sources to reliably cast Displacer on turn 2 - yikes, that is quite a lot! I'm currently only running 10 (4 painland/4 CoS/2 Karakas).

Are you not running any Mox Diamond anymore? Just one Petal? If you are down to 11 white sources, are you still able to reliably cast Displacer and RiP when you want to and lastly, are you running Containment Priest?
I cut the Mox Diamond for Warping Wails since Mox was underperforming for me. My current Blade list is here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30537-This-Month-in-Legacy-%28February-2016%29&p=941155&viewfull=1#post941155). 4 Petals are a must for manafixing. Of course you could cut into the Factory slots for more white sources (aka Caves of Koilos), but I like my Factories. For Displacer, I actually have 15 sources, including Cavern.

Edit: Found footage of the Eldrazi Top8 list: Starts around the 30 minute mark (https://www.twitch.tv/hareruya/v/56950668)

Edit #2: Riehu 5-0'ed another league run, this time with a colorless list (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/393819#online)

Eye-catching part are the CoWs in combination with both Wasteland AND Factory.

Riehu
03-31-2016, 05:51 AM
I cut the Mox Diamond for Warping Wails since Mox was underperforming for me. My current Blade list is here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30537-This-Month-in-Legacy-%28February-2016%29&p=941155&viewfull=1#post941155). 4 Petals are a must for manafixing. Of course you could cut into the Factory slots for more white sources (aka Caves of Koilos), but I like my Factories. For Displacer, I actually have 15 sources, including Cavern.

Edit: Found footage of the Eldrazi Top8 list: Starts around the 30 minute mark (https://www.twitch.tv/hareruya/v/56950668)

Edit #2: Riehu 5-0'ed another league run, this time with a colorless list (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/393819#online)

Eye-catching part are the CoWs in combination with both Wasteland AND Factory.

I felt that I'd like to try more aggressive version after I seemed to get awkward results with different versions of WB (tried out even SFM package main with no good results, though might not have been optimal at all). This has felt good for a change.

I've played 23 matches so far:

5-0 league

RUG Delver 2-1
Lands 2-1 (obviously lucky here too but timely counter to Loam helped in the first game and 3rd game Faerie Macabre together with Pithing Needle were key factors)
The Cure 2-0
Imperial Painter / Tezzeret 2-0 (strange version, not as fast as normal Painter deck, Wasteland was good here)
Imperial Painter / Tezzeret 2-1 (same guy)

0-3 league

RUG Delver 1-2
Burn 1-2
Food Chain 1-2

4-1 league

Merfolk 2-0
Esper Mentor 1-2
Miracles 2-1
Vesuvapost 2-0
BG Post 2-1

4-1 league

DNT 2-1
Shardless 1-2
Infect 2-1
ANT (mentor in SB) 2-1
UW Standstill 2-0 (vs CalebD, Mishra's obviously helped together with Wasteland for his factories)

And the one I just finished 3-2

Sneak Show 2-0
Bant Deathblade 0-2
Shardless 1-2
Mirror 2-1
Miracles 2-0

Helm of Obedience is an interesting idea, worth a try. 3 in board vs Shardless might be a key. Though then I would need to mulligan aggressively to Leyline. Anyway, worth a shot with maybe bit heavier black to be able to cast Leyline too. Then again that would give leave me without Factories most likely. I do like Wastelands again. Maybe vs Deathblade, Esper Mentor and Lands. Worth discussing.

Riehu
03-31-2016, 07:42 AM
Helm of Obedience is an interesting idea, worth a try. 3 in board vs Shardless might be a key. Though then I would need to mulligan aggressively to Leyline. Anyway, worth a shot with maybe bit heavier black to be able to cast Leyline too. Then again that would give leave me without Factories most likely. I do like Wastelands again. Maybe vs Deathblade, Esper Mentor and Lands. Worth discussing.

Went 5-0 with Helmed Eldrazi. Modified my previous version.

Miracles 2-0
Shardless 2-0
Miracles 2-0
UWR control 2-0
ANT 2-0

Barook
03-31-2016, 08:32 AM
Went 5-0 with Helmed Eldrazi. Modified my previous version.

Miracles 2-0
Shardless 2-0
Miracles 2-0
UWR control 2-0
ANT 2-0
What modifications did you make? Did the Helm kill come up at some point, especially vs Shardless?

Riehu
03-31-2016, 08:58 AM
What modifications did you make? Did the Helm kill come up at some point, especially vs Shardless?

Here's the list.

4 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Simian Spirit Guides

2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Dismember
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

3 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spatial Contortion


I took the Helm + Leyline from the Japanese list and added 1 more SSG as I've felt that 24 lands need 3 SSGs. I might be wrong, this needs to be tested as well. Removed Factories and added 2 Urborgs. Also removed Metamorphs.

I comboed vs both Miracles in boarded games. Shardless I only had Leyline (lost Helm to Hymn and did not draw another) which pretty much negated his Tarmo's and DRS. He did not draw Visions though.

Edit. This version is weak vs Sneak&Show, lost two matches, both 1-2. Perhaps other could have been won if I would have mulliganed properly.

CovenantElite30
03-31-2016, 09:13 AM
Here's the list.

4 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Simian Spirit Guides

2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Dismember
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

3 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spatial Contortion


I took the Helm + Leyline from the Japanese list and added 1 more SSG as I've felt that 24 lands need 3 SSGs. I might be wrong, this needs to be tested as well. Removed Factories and added 2 Urborgs. Also removed Metamorphs.

I comboed vs both Miracles in boarded games. Shardless I only had Leyline (lost Helm to Hymn and did not draw another) which pretty much negated his Tarmo's and DRS. He did not draw Visions though.

Edit. This version is weak vs Sneak&Show, lost two matches, both 1-2. Perhaps other could have been won if I would have mulliganed properly.


What do you normally sideboard in the combo against? What cards do you take out for the combo pieces?

I feel like bringing in the combo vs Miracles is overkill?

I wonder if the combo is good against lands?

Riehu
03-31-2016, 09:24 AM
What do you normally sideboard in the combo against? What cards do you take out for the combo pieces?

I feel like bringing in the combo vs Miracles is overkill?

I wonder if the combo is good against lands?

Vs Miracles I remove Jittes, Crucibles, 1 SSG and Matter Reshapers bringing in combo + 2 Ratchet Bombs. At least I feel it gives an additional angle in that matchup as well while we get rid of cards that are no good against them.

Lands plays Krosan Grips but starting with Leyline slows them down. I have not had a chance to test this. If someone has a Lands deck, I would like to test the matchup. Just PM me here or modo.

Barook
03-31-2016, 09:47 AM
Played the Helm list, except with 4 Cavern and 3 Factories instead of 4 Wasteland for budget reasons. 4-1'ed, only lost the finals to Esper Mentor who had a ludicrous good draw G3:

I had T0 Leyline, T1 Chalice and Helm ready for the T3 kill, but nope, FoW on CotV, Gitaxian Probe, Cabal Therapy on Helm, StP my Smasher, followed up by 3 (!) Mentors with cantrips into Jace. I MAD. :mad:

CovenantElite30
03-31-2016, 10:18 AM
Vs Miracles I remove Jittes, Crucibles, 1 SSG and Matter Reshapers bringing in combo + 2 Ratchet Bombs. At least I feel it gives an additional angle in that matchup as well while we get rid of cards that are no good against them.

Lands plays Krosan Grips but starting with Leyline slows them down. I have not had a chance to test this. If someone has a Lands deck, I would like to test the matchup. Just PM me here or modo.


I see in your list your playing main board Crucible of Worlds instead of Thorn of Amethyst, is this because of the combo in the sideboard?

I've completely removed Crucible of Worlds from my deck, I found it to be too slow and clunky.

Do you think Thorn of Amethyst is just bad with the combo?

Riehu
03-31-2016, 10:24 AM
I see in your list your playing main board Crucible of Worlds instead of Thorn of Amethyst, is this because of the combo in the sideboard?

I've completely removed Crucible of Worlds from my deck, I found it to be too slow and clunky.

Do you think Thorn of Amethyst is just bad with the combo?

I have had mixed feelings with Crucible, at times it's great and other times clunky.

I have only played 0-2 Thorns lately as I haven't felt the need for those. Also as you bring up, the combo would not work that well together with Amethysts.

What matchups do you think Thorns are good for?

CovenantElite30
03-31-2016, 10:30 AM
I have had mixed feelings with Crucible, at times it's great and other times clunky.

I have only played 0-2 Thorns lately as I haven't felt the need for those. Also as you bring up, the combo would not work that well together with Amethysts.

What matchups do you think Thorns are good for?

In my testing (I play mostly paper and not online) I found Thorn to be good against Miracles, Burn, Storm, Dredge, can slow down shardless a bit.

Overall I've liked having Thorn. I actually play 2 Thorns and 1 Trinisphere in my list.

My deck plays 25 lands so removing Crucible didn't really affect my version all that much.

I guess in a land heavy meta Crucible would be fine. I almost wanted to start playing 1 main deck Waste, but haven't committed to the idea yet.

Riehu
03-31-2016, 10:45 AM
In my testing (I play mostly paper and not online) I found Thorn to be good against Miracles, Burn, Storm, Dredge, can slow down shardless a bit.

Overall I've liked having Thorn. I actually play 2 Thorns and 1 Trinisphere in my list.

My deck plays 25 lands so removing Crucible didn't really affect my version all that much.

I guess in a land heavy meta Crucible would be fine. I almost wanted to start playing 1 main deck Waste, but haven't committed to the idea yet.

Could you post your list and how you sideboard. I think sideboarding (both play and draw) hasn't been discussed too much. Would be a good start.

RhoxWarMonk
03-31-2016, 10:49 AM
Played the Helm list, except with 4 Cavern and 3 Factories instead of 4 Wasteland for budget reasons. 4-1'ed, only lost the finals to Esper Mentor who had a ludicrous good draw G3:

I had T0 Leyline, T1 Chalice and Helm ready for the T3 kill, but nope, FoW on CotV, Gitaxian Probe, Cabal Therapy on Helm, StP my Smasher, followed up by 3 (!) Mentors with cantrips into Jace. I MAD. :mad:

I'm going to give the helm testing a try too. I thought it was strange and a little clunky but the recent success with it intrigues me.

Barook were you on the white list you posted yesterday? I really like your updated version but curious where you made room for the combo. I assume you cut the blade plan to try it out .?

Barook
03-31-2016, 11:14 AM
I'm going to give the helm testing a try too. I thought it was strange and a little clunky but the recent success with it intrigues me.

Barook were you on the white list you posted yesterday? I really like your updated version but curious where you made room for the combo. I assume you cut the blade plan to try it out .?
The 4-1 result was with the Colorless list from Japan. I might try the white variant once I have enough data.

CovenantElite30
03-31-2016, 11:20 AM
Could you post your list and how you sideboard. I think sideboarding (both play and draw) hasn't been discussed too much. Would be a good start.

I splash red in my list. My meta is very different at my local store.

Lots of Miracles, Elves, DnT and Goblins. Eldrazi Obligator helps a lot against miracles, they tend to bring in Bloodmoon.

I would like to add your Helm combo to my sideboard.

The sideboard changes I would make to my current list to add the combo would be:
-1 Endbringer
-1 Dismember
-2 Phyrexian Revoker

+1 Leyline of the Void
+3 Helm

Any suggestions for my list and sideboard changes would be great. :wink:


Current List:

Creatures:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
3 Eldrazi Obligator
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer

Spells:
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
1 Trinisphere
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Endbringer
2 Dismember

Riehu
03-31-2016, 11:38 AM
I splash red in my list. My meta is very different at my local store.

Lots of Miracles, Elves, DnT and Goblins. Eldrazi Obligator helps a lot against miracles, they tend to bring in Bloodmoon.

I would like to add your Helm combo to my sideboard.

The sideboard changes I would make to my current list to add the combo would be:
-1 Endbringer
-1 Dismember
-2 Phyrexian Revoker

+1 Leyline of the Void
+3 Helm

Any suggestions for my list and sideboard changes would be great. :wink:


Current List:

Creatures:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
3 Eldrazi Obligator
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer

Spells:
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
1 Trinisphere
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Endbringer
2 Dismember

How has the Wasteland been for you with that meta? Have you tried going deeper RG with World Breaker and Kozilek's Return (+ Karplusan Forest) even in the MD? Also given the meta you have I would remove Thorns from the MD. Feels like I would have more removal instead or 2nd Jitte. And instead of SSG you could play ESG to be able to cast World Breaker under Blood Moon.

Barook
03-31-2016, 12:50 PM
I toyed around a bit with the white splash RiP kill - if it's the real deal, I would throw out the remaining 2 Leylines and replace them with E-Tutors since those can find both parts of the combo, making it a more reliable kill. Yes, Tutor clashes with Chalice @1, I'm aware of that, but I actually like to cast my stuff instead of it sitting dead in my hand. I would also most likely need more white sources to support it, probably cutting the remaining two Factories for Caves of Koilos (which would bring my regular white sources to the magical number 13).

Cire
03-31-2016, 01:20 PM
Regarding white splash for around 2 non-eldrazi Main deck cards - I think the consensus average is around 10 main deck white sources not including caverns. I am going to assume the same is true for any other color.

As such I think in the red splash the 8 sources of red for Obligator are too little, since 2 of those are fast temp mana, and you are running 3 obligators. Compare to the above analysis of white splash. Yes, it talks about non-cavern sources, but still the total amount of sources was at least 9-11. You are only running 8. Additionally, why the lone trinisphere? I sort of feel the idea of prison pieces are "I must get this turn 1" (and thus running a full set of 8) or "Meh, COTV is good enough for me"

@ Rhoxwarmonk: regarding White Splash with sub splash for Worldbreaker and second subsplash for Toxic Deluge - I think it could be done but then you will need to replace Wastelands/Factories:

As long as you're okay with that you can do something like this with 27 cards which I think can be trimmed:

4 Caverns
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eye
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg
2 Green/Black Dual/Painland
2 White/Black Dual/Painland
3 Mox Diamond

RhoxWarMonk
03-31-2016, 02:16 PM
Regarding white splash for around 2 non-eldrazi Main deck cards - I think the consensus average is around 10 main deck white sources not including caverns. I am going to assume the same is true for any other color.

As such I think in the red splash the 8 sources of red for Obligator are too little, since 2 of those are fast temp mana, and you are running 3 obligators. Compare to the above analysis of white splash. Yes, it talks about non-cavern sources, but still the total amount of sources was at least 9-11. You are only running 8. Additionally, why the lone trinisphere? I sort of feel the idea of prison pieces are "I must get this turn 1" (and thus running a full set of 8) or "Meh, COTV is good enough for me"

@ Rhoxwarmonk: regarding White Splash with sub splash for Worldbreaker and second subsplash for Toxic Deluge - I think it could be done but then you will need to replace Wastelands/Factories:

As long as you're okay with that you can do something like this with 27 cards which I think can be trimmed:

4 Caverns
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eye
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg
2 Green/Black Dual/Painland
2 White/Black Dual/Painland
3 Mox Diamond

Thanks for your post, Ive been crunching the numbers myself on dual colors but I still think it might be a little too greedy. So right now, I'm planning to playtest what Barook was having success with, only with the LotV/Helm combo in the side. I really like the idea of the white splash but I also don't know if it's better to just stick with the colorless version and not try to branch out too much. I've had a good deal of success with the colorless build but I think I have to cut Trinisphere. While a great card and absolutely BONKERS in some matchups, the fact it's a nobo with the Eye of Ugin and makes Dismember borderline unusable kills it for me personally.

I feel going with 4x CotV and 2x Thorns is enough for lock pieces, maybe Ill add the Trinisphere in the board because the decks it's good against, it's REALLY good but I have often found I'd draw one late and I'd wish it was almost anything else.

Also going back up to 2x Jitte main as well - been splitting 1 MD/1 SB but they have been great for me.

Side question, how is everyone finding Warping Wail? At first, it felt very narrow and I wasn't liking it but after more testing, I'm really warming up to it. I'm playing with 2x currently and considering moving up to a 3rd. Is anyone else having success with it?

CovenantElite30
03-31-2016, 03:36 PM
Thanks for your post, Ive been crunching the numbers myself on dual colors but I still think it might be a little too greedy. So right now, I'm planning to playtest what Barook was having success with, only with the LotV/Helm combo in the side. I really like the idea of the white splash but I also don't know if it's better to just stick with the colorless version and not try to branch out too much. I've had a good deal of success with the colorless build but I think I have to cut Trinisphere. While a great card and absolutely BONKERS in some matchups, the fact it's a nobo with the Eye of Ugin and makes Dismember borderline unusable kills it for me personally.

I feel going with 4x CotV and 2x Thorns is enough for lock pieces, maybe Ill add the Trinisphere in the board because the decks it's good against, it's REALLY good but I have often found I'd draw one late and I'd wish it was almost anything else.

Also going back up to 2x Jitte main as well - been splitting 1 MD/1 SB but they have been great for me.

Side question, how is everyone finding Warping Wail? At first, it felt very narrow and I wasn't liking it but after more testing, I'm really warming up to it. I'm playing with 2x currently and considering moving up to a 3rd. Is anyone else having success with it?


I currently play 3 Warping Wail main and love it. It mostly shines Vs Miracles where you can counter there Terminus. But I've also done the end of turn make a dude play and equip Jitte and go to town with the beats.

I've found its very good Vs shardless, kills their annoying strix and deathrite, counters their hymn which can completely kill our hand.

Love it Vs Elves, basically kills and counters everything they are trying to do.

I mean at it's very worst its a colorless 1/1 with flash.

RhoxWarMonk
03-31-2016, 04:48 PM
I currently play 3 Warping Wail main and love it. It mostly shines Vs Miracles where you can counter there Terminus. But I've also done the end of turn make a dude play and equip Jitte and go to town with the beats.

I've found its very good Vs shardless, kills their annoying strix and deathrite, counters their hymn which can completely kill our hand.

Love it Vs Elves, basically kills and counters everything they are trying to do.

I mean at it's very worst its a colorless 1/1 with flash.

Great points, thanks for your input --- one thing that turned me off the Warping Wail a little in my own testing was leaving the 2 mana open. I was always stuck between playing a lock piece, playing a threat or keeping mana up for a Wail in fear of a problematic sorcery coming in. I guess, it's completely dependant on the matchup and perhaps I just need more experience with the deck but that's what I was struggling with.

I think I'll up the count on my own deck, just so I have more of a chance to draw it so I can test it out. Also, I feel like a noob but why have I never thought about using it as a 1/1 w/flash and then dropping a Jitte for the beats...?! That seems like a great play, especially against something like Miracles which likely doesn't want to blow a Terminus or a StP on a 1/1 colorless token.

Cire
03-31-2016, 05:32 PM
Thanks for your post, Ive been crunching the numbers myself on dual colors but I still think it might be a little too greedy.?

It's very greedy. But for fun I made this list and am going to test it out for a bit. (Of note, including sideboard this splashes 3 colors! Only 4 lock pieces! Three Jitte's to offset some of the life loss from the lands/deluge):

CWGb test list

-25 Lands
4 Caverns of souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eye of Ugin
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yagmoth
2 Llanowar Wastes
2 Cave of Koilos
1 Karakas

- 13 Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail

- 22 Creatures
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 World Breaker
1 Endbringer

SB (Note: haven't seen reanimator/Dredge in a while for whatever reason)

3 Containment Priest
3 Toxic Deluge
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Endbringer

Barook
03-31-2016, 06:09 PM
After testing it a bit, the E-Tutor RiP Helmet idea doesn't seem to great so far, at least not against Miracles. It takes to many slots to the point where you have to cut actual threats. Not a fan of that.

@Cire: 4 Moxen is excessive. I would never run more than 2. Better run some Lotus Petals instead. Same goes for 3 Jitte.

Cire
03-31-2016, 06:41 PM
@Cire: 4 Moxen is excessive. I would never run more than 2. Better run some Lotus Petals instead. Same goes for 3 Jitte.

Yeah - it's just a test list - i fully expect for it to be tweaked or thrown away. The initial idea was for Jitte to offset life loss and the Moxen, with the 25 lands, to support a potential game 2 where you have Toxic Deluge, Containment Priest, Displacer and World Breaker all in the deck, and I judge that temp mana may not be enough to support all that.

Riehu
04-01-2016, 02:15 AM
Turn 1 kill on the draw :D (don't seem to know how to make it visible here)

http://postimg.org/image/chj55tyhx/

kingtk3
04-01-2016, 05:24 AM
Turn 1 kill on the draw :D (don't seem to know how to make it visible here)

http://postimg.org/image/chj55tyhx/

how did you manage to put helm into play and activate it on turn 1?

EDIT: I see, opponent played S&T... cool :cool:

Goin Aggro
04-01-2016, 06:13 AM
Turn 1 kill on the draw :D (don't seem to know how to make it visible here)

http://postimg.org/image/chj55tyhx/

What? You didn't go for it on his turn with SSG? Not even trying to go for the Rub-ins.

Riehu
04-01-2016, 07:17 AM
What? You didn't go for it on his turn with SSG? Not even trying to go for the Rub-ins.

That would have been too cruel but I did miss T0 kill there. I don't why I played it so safe :/

keys
04-01-2016, 09:24 AM
Technically you can't win until opponent's T2 :tongue:

Riehu
04-01-2016, 11:53 AM
Played few leagues with WB Helmed Eldrazi.

3-2

BGW Veteran 0-2 (flooded 1st, no white sources for displacers 2nd game)
Doomsday 2-0
4c Delver 2-0 (Deluge MVP)
RUG Delver (Deluge MVP)
Lands 0-2 (made a mistake costing 2nd game)


3-2

Food Chain 2-1
Lands 1-2 (important to take at least 1 mulligan to get Leyline, won 2nd game with the help of that)
Imperial Taxes 2-1
4c Delver 1-2 (Leyline helped a lot in 2nd game vs Tarmos)
Infect 2-0

For next version replaced Endbringer with 3rd Lotus Petal

5-0

4c Delver 2-1
Goblins 2-1
Merfolk 2-1
Burning Reanimator 2-1
RUG Faeries(?) 2-1




4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Phyrexian Revoker

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Lotus Petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
3 City of Traitors
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas


3 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
1 Karakas
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Ratchet Bomb

RhoxWarMonk
04-01-2016, 12:01 PM
Thanks for the report Riehu -- your 5-0 list is really interesting. I have a few questions for you as a follow up :)

Do you find Endless One is still needed in that list with the Displacers? Did you ever consider splashing for World Breaker?

Was Toxic worth the black splash? I've seen a few decks pack this now and have heard very good reports from it.

Lastly, do you normally play with Factories or Wastelands? If so, did you miss either of them?

Riehu
04-01-2016, 12:12 PM
Thanks for the report Riehu -- your 5-0 list is really interesting. I have a few questions for you as a follow up :)

Do you find Endless One is still needed in that list with the Displacers? Did you ever consider splashing for World Breaker?

Was Toxic worth the black splash? I've seen a few decks pack this now and have heard very good reports from it.

Lastly, do you normally play with Factories or Wastelands? If so, did you miss either of them?

Endless One has been (still) surprisingly good. Especially vs Bolts and obviously under Blood Moon. I have played with World Breaker in the list before but found it normally too slow and not really affecting board enough.

Toxic has been definitely worth the splash. I added 1 more Petal as it was stranded in my hand too often. It's not something that is normally needed in the early game so there is time to draw a black source. Though I might be proven wrong when I play more, but 8 sources starts to be quite close to what is mathematically needed for turn 6 onwards (from the CFB article). I just don't want to remove any other land as those are too important.

I do miss Wastelands sometimes, especially vs Infect and mirror and to some extent vs Lands and DNT. Factories not so much as they have been too slow. In the colorless version I defintely play Wastelands instead of Factories.

RhoxWarMonk
04-01-2016, 12:15 PM
Endless One has been (still) surprisingly good. Especially vs Bolts and obviously under Blood Moon. I have played with World Breaker in the list before but found it normally too slow and not really affecting board enough.

Toxic has been definitely worth the splash. I added 1 more Petal as it was stranded in my hand too often. It's not something that is normally needed in the early game so there is time to draw a black source. Though I might be proven wrong when I play more, but 8 sources starts to be quite close to what is mathematically needed for turn 6 onwards (from the CFB article). I just don't want to remove any other land as those are too important.

I do miss Wastelands sometimes, especially vs Infect and mirror and to some extent vs Lands and DNT. Factories not so much as they have been too slow. In the colorless version I defintely play Wastelands instead of Factories.

Thank you kindly, I think I'll pick up a few Toxic Deluge and give that splash a try. Been trying to make the green splash work but this might be a better alternative. So far, I've had the most success with the colorless version but been trying to branch out a little as well and help refine this decktype, which is quickly becoming one of my favorites to play here.

Have you been liking the Helm/LotV combo in the SB? What matchups do you bring it in against? I can see it against Lands and combo like Show and Tell, Reanimator or Dredge --- does it have any other uses?

Riehu
04-01-2016, 12:24 PM
Thank you kindly, I think I'll pick up a few Toxic Deluge and give that splash a try. Been trying to make the green splash work but this might be a better alternative. So far, I've had the most success with the colorless version but been trying to branch out a little as well and help refine this decktype, which is quickly becoming one of my favorites to play here.

Have you been liking the Helm/LotV combo in the SB? What matchups do you bring it in against? I can see it against Lands and combo like Show and Tell, Reanimator or Dredge --- does it have any other uses?

I have most probably sideboarded it too often vs many kinds of decks. It's been funny to see that I have seen more sideboard cards vs Helm than before. Those three definitely I bring it in. I have won two games with it vs Shardless too as the Leylines are good already and I need a way to dodge all the Abrupt Decays. With Helmed version (colorless or BW) I'm 3-2 in matches currently. Obviously too early to say how the matchup actually is but it has felt better.

I'll start taking notes of how I sideboard so we can get that discussion going at some point.

Tried to green splash in GW, GB and GR for some matches but I really feel BW is the best combination due to displacers.

I have had most success with colorless version too, but most of that came in the beginning like a month ago and few days ago. But I just feel like BW gives me the best tools.

iostream
04-01-2016, 12:38 PM
Leyline/Helm in my view, is an extremely high-variance way to turn around matchups which we cannot address in any other way with any other tools. Consider the following:

1) having Leyline in the opener without Helm is awkward versus decks where the Leyline itself is not very good since we have no way to find Helm.
2) Helm in an opener without a Leyline is almost as bad as a mulligan since Leyline is nearly uncastable.
3) decks where we would want the combo often side in countermeasures. For instance, you can bet that Lands is bringing in all their Grips versus us since know to expect Needles, Leyline, RiP, Chalice on 2, etc. So they can break the combo even if they don't know anything about Helm.
4) the whole package costs half of our entire sideboard

It's nice that people are managing to win games with it, but really this should be the option of last resort, once we are certain that there is no better plan versus grindy decks that abuse the graveyard. (By the way, I seriously hope people are not trying to play the combo in matchups where Leyline itself has no impact on the game.)

Is there no other way we can think of to help these matchups?

iostream
04-01-2016, 12:42 PM
2 Seal of Cleansing
Nice! Any feelings about this versus Disenchant? I like being able to tap out more often, but you do sometimes get screwed by removal on the Seal prior to the equipment/hate piece hitting the battlefield.