[Primer] Nic Fit

[Mr. Safety]

So, just for starters:

-3 Drs
+2 birds
+1 jitte

Birds do the mana, jitte does the threat part of drs.

[Megadeus]

Not super relevant to the discussion, but in light of todays bannings I thought it would be funny to see how players reacted to Deathrite being made

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20983-Deck-Nic-Fit-(GBx-Explorer-Zenith-Control)/page119

[Echelon]

So, just for starters:

-3 Drs
+2 birds
+1 jitte

Birds do the mana, jitte does the threat part of drs.

No birds or Jitte for me. Bird is pretty damn lackluster. Ramp wasn't necessarily why I ran DRS. Not sure what to replace it with though. Might start looking at Quirion Ranger/Scryb Ranger. In which case I might add a singleton BoP.

[Matsu]

I am moving on a 2x sakura tribe elder plan.
I did some test before banning with Arena Rector, but I have mixed feelings.

I think I will try a Living Wish package if still have issues with Arena Rector.

Just curious, did any of you tried Banana Man Tasigur, before the ban?

[Ralf]

I am moving on a 2x sakura tribe elder plan.
I did some test before banning with Arena Rector, but I have mixed feelings.

I think I will try a Living Wish package if still have issues with Arena Rector.


What is your issue ?

I'm having a lot of fun with my BANT build and I will bring it to my next LGS tournament to get more feedbacks !

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31293-Primer-Nic-Fit&p=1045785&viewfull=1#post1045785

[Echelon]

Just curious, did any of you tried Banana Man Tasigur, before the ban?

Yup. Karakas is a bitch. Just go for Angler and smash face. Or cut the middle man (Fierce Empath) and run Siege Rhino/Chameleon Colossus/whatever.

[Matsu]

What is your issue ?

I'm having a lot of fun with my BANT build and I will bring it to my next LGS tournament to get more feedbacks !

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31293-Primer-Nic-Fit&p=1045785&viewfull=1#post1045785



Yeah, that is the problem i do not want to be in bleu.

I am testing WBG with some splash and see if it is playable. At the moment i will wait until the metagame will settle after the recent bans. The biggest problem is drawing your Ugin when you cannot cast it. That is why I switched Bolas God into Kaya to have an edge against combo or control decks.


Yup. Karakas is a bitch. Just go for Angler and smash face. Or cut the middle man (Fierce Empath) and run Siege Rhino/Chameleon Colossus/whatever.

Indeed Karakas is a bitch. I was looking for a cheap creatures after board reset (deeds). Tasigur fills the role. You explode the board buy him for 1B and use his ability to bring back some cards. It is less about smashing face, i was looking for an utility creature.

[Mr. Safety]

No birds or Jitte for me. Bird is pretty damn lackluster. Ramp wasn't necessarily why I ran DRS. Not sure what to replace it with though. Might start looking at Quirion Ranger/Scryb Ranger. In which case I might add a singleton BoP.

You're probably right, we don't need birds. I worry about counting on gsz/arbor as extra mana acceleration; wasteland will be everywhere. However, in my limited experience, vet is the real acceleration. Drs was just too good to *not* play. Doran makes birds marginally better for me.

Some other ideas for those 3 slots:
1) crop rotation + utility lands
2) sfm + jitte (I feel like it could be really good)
3) lingering souls
4) garruk relentless/pws
5) thoughtseize

[Brael]

No birds or Jitte for me. Bird is pretty damn lackluster. Ramp wasn't necessarily why I ran DRS. Not sure what to replace it with though. Might start looking at Quirion Ranger/Scryb Ranger. In which case I might add a singleton BoP.

Unless you have equipment, Noble Hierarch (even when it's only tapping for colorless) is much better than Birds.

[Mr. Safety]

Unless you have equipment, Noble Hierarch (even when it's only tapping for colorless) is much better than Birds.

Black mana is pretty important, I'm pretty sure that offsets the combat bonus of noble, or at least is a consideration when playing junk colors.

Upon further reflection, I'm going to play 1x thoughtseize, 1x garruk relentless, and cut to 60 cards in the 3 deathrite slots.

[Brael]

Black mana is pretty important, I'm pretty sure that offsets the combat bonus of noble, or at least is a consideration when playing junk colors.

Upon further reflection, I'm going to play 1x thoughtseize, 1x garruk relentless, and cut to 60 cards in the 3 deathrite slots.

Going down on mana sources and up on curve will make your deck run worse.

Edit: Here's my first shot at a GB build post DRS (though I'm thinking 3 colors are probably better right now)

Land (23)

2x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dryad Arbor
5x Forest
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Phyrexian Tower
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volrath's Stronghold

Instant (6)

2x Abrupt Decay
2x Crop Rotation
2x Diabolic Edict

Creature (19)

1x Chameleon Colossus
4x Dark Confidant
1x Eternal Witness
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip
1x Runic Armasaur
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Tireless Tracker
4x Veteran Explorer

Sorcery (11)

4x Cabal Therapy
1x Collective Brutality
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Toxic Deluge

Enchantment (1)

1x Pernicious Deed

Sideboard (15)

1x Carpet of Flowers
1x Crop Rotation
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Duress
1x Golgari Charm
3x Lost Legacy
1x Pulse of Murasa
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Sylvan Library
1x Toxic Deluge

[Ihavethefire]

With DRS gone could it be good to go back to playing a recurring nightmare build?

[Ralf]

With DRS gone could it be good to go back to playing a recurring nightmare build?

Yes. POD as well.

[Brael]

Yes. POD as well.

I don't know about Pod, but definitely on Recurring Nightmare.

[Memories of the Time]

Yes. POD as well.

If the number of K.Command goes down as well, yep

[Mr. Safety]

If the number of K.Command goes down as well, yep

It won't. Pile will drop green, not red. Green was the smallest splash in grixis delver and pile. Just getting snapcaster back attached to a removal spell is still amazing.

[Gruby]

Black mana is pretty important, I'm pretty sure that offsets the combat bonus of noble, or at least is a consideration when playing junk colors.

Upon further reflection, I'm going to play 1x thoughtseize, 1x garruk relentless, and cut to 60 cards in the 3 deathrite slots.

Maybe BoP + Doran ;) And he blocks Marit Lage ;)

My first try will be probably adding discard in place of DRS.

[Mr. Safety]

Maybe BoP + Doran ;) And he blocks Marit Lage ;)

My first try will be probably adding discard in place of DRS.

Exactly. You read my mind.

[Brael]

It won't. Pile will drop green, not red. Green was the smallest splash in grixis delver and pile. Just getting snapcaster back attached to a removal spell is still amazing.

I disagree, Tarmogoyf was out because of DRS, and absent DRS, Goyf is the most efficient creature you can commit to the board.

Even if you are in the colors to run Kolaghans, the numbers are unlikely to go up by much. But without DRS's easy mana, far fewer decks will be in BR.

[Mr. Safety]

I disagree, Tarmogoyf was out because of DRS, and absent DRS, Goyf is the most efficient creature you can commit to the board.

Even if you are in the colors to run Kolaghans, the numbers are unlikely to go up by much. But without DRS's easy mana, far fewer decks will be in BR.

I was reading the Czech pile thread and the sentiment currently is to switch to grixis. Sultai control is a thing, but some on that thread are saying red is more important.

Goyf doesn't get good all of a sudden overnight. It fights for space against tnn, a much better creature. Grave hate will be less prevalent maindeck but stronger out of the board. Goyf is still probably not the best option in legacy, no matter how much of a bromance I have with the card. We'll see.

[Brael]

I was reading the Czech pile thread and the sentiment currently is to switch to grixis. Sultai control is a thing, but some on that thread are saying red is more important.

Grixis has already been a thing, there were even Pyromancer versions that weren't running DRS already. Even those versions were only managing 2 Kolaghan's Commands which is what Pile already had.

[Gruby]

Hey... still about banning DRS, NicFit worked well without him, he was just, a nic(e) addition. Mana dork + gravehate options .
Look into archives. We started without DRS and it worked well.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28548-Primer-Deck-Nic-Fit ;) NO DRS (Yeah I know, he didn't existed in that "timeline"), but deck worked. I think we just loose coolest acceleration and better Scavenging Oooze. But we're just one step behind, while some decks are f@#$n far, far away ;)
Now only reanimator scares me a bit but maybe SB reanimate can solve this? :)

Abut previously mentioned by me discard, Toughtseize > IoK for us... mostly with JTMS and rarely other things. But it's only my opinnion.


Exactly. You read my mind.

<3 High Five ;)

[caseyc]

Maindeck Leyline of the Voids I guess?

Mind you, more graveyard hate is also ouch versus Nyx Fit since that just stops the Academy Rector trigger.

I have been playing a bit of Nyx Fit--and it is a solid choice. I think it def gets better post DRS ban. (I was maindecking Ground Seal and lots of removal, mostly for DRS). The issue is the decks that get better are a little tough. RUG Delver is actually my biggest concern, due to the combination of mana denial, countermagic, and stifles. But I think overall Nyx Fit is in a better place. I actually think Nyx Fit is quite good against Reanimator. I pack 4x Leyline of the Void in the SB, which, in combination with everything else, usually secures games 2 and 3. And sometimes we can steal game 1 with some discard plus landing Splendor or Cruel Reality. Also, I have been playing 4c Nic Fit and running Probe--which sadly will go. Below I will propose an updated version of my 4c Nyx Fit list:

Lands(22):
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp
3x Forest

Creatures (7):
4x Academy Rector
3x Veteran Explorer

Spells(31):
1x Overwhelming Splendor
1x Cruel Reality
1x Curse of Death's Hold
3x Evolutionary Leap
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Toxic Deluge
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Lingering Souls
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder
1x Sylvan Library
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Living Wish
1x Collective Brutality

SB (15):
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Karakas
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Tabernacle of Pendrel Vale (which I don't have in paper, I will run Eternal Witness in this slot unless I borrowed a Tabby from a friend)
1x Bitterheart Witch
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Ground Seal
1x Curse of Misfortunes
1x Dovescape
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Diabolic Edict

Thoughts?

[Mr. Safety]

The real question for the sideboard is which grave hate to include? With Drs I shaved down to only 3 in the board, but I don't think less than 4 is adequate for a while. Currently I'm on a 2/2 split of surgical/nihil spellbomb. Should we start looking at things like Relic or Cage?

[Plm]

Here again crop rotation is the answer :smile:

You put 1 bojuka bog and 1 scavenging ooze in your sideboard and with 2 crop 4 zenith your now playing with 8 gravehate effects without cluttering your sideboard.

Personally, in helm fit, I'm not missing in the gravehate department (4 leyline main, bog and ooze side with 2 crop 2 zenith main).

[Mr. Safety]

Crop rotation is instant, which is nice, but splashing in lands that mess with curve (tapped) when drawn, or don't fix colors is a liability. I could instead just play 2 nihil spellbomb and have the same odds of drawing a 1-mana grave hate that doesn't ruin my mana base. Instant speed surgical, even on the draw, is better in this instance.

A 2nd scooze in the board does seem smart. I'm still wracking my brain for how to shift the open 3 slots in the main, which might include mainboarding some of the sideboard cards (rec sage mostly.)

[Mr. Safety]

Does Courser of kruphix get better now?

[Plm]

Mr safety, you're looking a it the wrong way : bojuka bog is not a cipt land, it is a one mana grave hate spell that leave a land behind, where nihil is a one mana gravehate spell that draw you a card (for one more mana).
Also with 2 crop main and bog side board you have 3 grave hate for one sideboard slot, which is a better rate than 2 nihil for 2 slots .

Crop is a way to multiply your effects without cluttering your maindeck.
I first tried it, following the wise words of brael, to get more tower oppening without drawing multiple tower. But it does so much more (and I've already written about all that so I won't spam the board more )

In summary I encourage you to give crop rotation a chance. You play utility lands, you do get wastelanded, you want more grave hate, try 2 crop main you won't go back.

[Mr. Safety]

I forgot that it could get tower. I'm used to crop rotation = marit lage (and occasionally something else.) Rotating into tower is indeed strong, but I worry about wasteland coming back in a big way. I'm not sure tower alone is worth maindeck crop rotation however. Seems like it waters down the deck simply for a little more flexibility. I don't mind using sideboard space for those kinds of tricks, but I have to figure out if my junk mana base can handle it.

Thoughts from other junk fit players? Crop rot or not?

[Plm]

Crop can 'sort of' counter wasteland in the sense that you stay at the same land number if you cast it in response to wasteland. And if they waste your tower after you sac'ed explorer, good for them:smile:

Also, for one of your three vacant slots, you might consider hierarch, 5/6 rhino are nothing to laugh at.

[Brael]

I forgot that it could get tower. I'm used to crop rotation = marit lage (and occasionally something else.) Rotating into tower is indeed strong, but I worry about wasteland coming back in a big way. I'm not sure tower alone is worth maindeck crop rotation however. Seems like it waters down the deck simply for a little more flexibility. I don't mind using sideboard space for those kinds of tricks, but I have to figure out if my junk mana base can handle it.

Thoughts from other junk fit players? Crop rot or not?

I like Crop Rotation in all Nic Fit builds, my general loadout is Volrath's Stronghold, Phyrexian Tower, Karakas, Bojuka Bog, and Dryad Arbor. With the expected rise in Stoneforge Mystic, Tower of the Magistrate might become sideboard material again.

What really breaks Crop Rotation though, is that it's good with Tower. Tower provides one of our best starts, enabling 4 mana on turn 2 but we can't usually afford enough colorless land to make that happen which is where Crop Rotaiton comes in. Additionally, with the loss of DRS, Veteran Explorer becomes more important. Crop Rotation can function as sacrifice effects 5 and 6 in a deck, which really helps to accelerate you. Not just acceleration though, but like GSZ it's early acceleration and late game value, with Tireless Tracker on the battlefield it's even effectively a draw 2.

I know that not everyone likes Crop Rotation, it's bad in Force of Will heavy metas inparticular but I think it's very valuable. I anticipate Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog to rise sharply in value in the next few weeks.

Edit: It's been a while since I've brought this up, so let me provide a small chart as to why Crop Rotation is so good. This deck relies heavily on developing it's mana, which means it has to ramp. If a hand doesn't provide 3 mana by turn 2, barring circumstances like having a silver bullet in hand it is almost certainly a mulligan. This is why I play so many ramp options. Prior to the DRS ban my usual mana package consisted of the following ways to hit the necessary mana:
1. 4x GSZ + 1x Arbor + 22x other lands (need 2)
2. 4x GSZ + 2x DRS + 8 fetch + 15 other lands
3. 4x GSZ + 4x Vet + 7x sacrifice (4 therapy, 2 rotation, 1 tower) + 23x land

When you put these together, you get the following percentages:
1. 23.8%
2. 33.4%
3. 27.5%

This means you've got about a 63.2% chance of your opening hand containing the necessary mana for your deck to play the game.

If you exclude Crop Rotation that drops to 60%. If you exclude Crop Rotation and Arbor that drops to 31.7%. If you exclude Crop Rotation, Arbor, and manadorks that drops to 21.2%.

In short, you need to go deep on mana acceleration in order to make the deck consistent. And the best mana acceleration has the DRS effect of being acceleration early and additional utility late, which is something that Crop Rotation does. On top of that, the most powerful cards historically are cards that act as both mana sources and mana sinks (again, DRS was the gold standard of this) and Crop Rotation is one such card.

They are extremely valuable to include in your list.

[Mr. Safety]

Crop can 'sort of' counter wasteland in the sense that you stay at the same land number if you cast it in response to wasteland. And if they waste your tower after you sac'ed explorer, good for them:smile:

Also, for one of your three vacant slots, you might consider hierarch, 5/6 rhino are nothing to laugh at.

I already get 5/5 rhinos with Doran.:wink::wink:

I think having access to black mana is too important. I'll stick with birds and work in crops.

[Brael]

I already get 5/5 rhinos with Doran.:wink::wink:

I think having access to black mana is too important. I'll stick with birds and work in crops.

5/6 is considerably different from 5/5. Recent rising all star Archon is a 5/6 and it's a large part in the cards success. The biggest, baddest thing around in most decks is Gurmag Angler at 5/5. Having something that beats it in combat rather than merely trades is very valuable. Don't underestimate the value of exalted.

As far as black mana goes, I think there's a couple schools of thought on this. The first is that we usually don't play double black cards or need two black mana in a turn. As a result, we can usually just rely on the manabase to provide black mana. Where this strategy loses out is against a deck like D&T that can pretty effortlessly cut us off of black. But then, the issue to look at is, how much do you really need your black mana against a deck like that? And when you do, is it possible for you to leverage Veteran Explorer to get enough Swamps?

When it comes to Hierarch, I've played Hierarch a bunch of times where the only effective colored mana it can produce for me is Green. That's still usually good enough, because if the Hierarch can tap for green, then the Bayou can tap for black.

PS: Crop Rotation can color fix for you.

[Mr. Safety]

Cool. I don't have nobles, and I expect them to go up, but I have the crop rot + silver bullets. I'll still use the birds for now
Great post, thanks.

[Brael]

Cool. I don't have nobles, and I expect them to go up, but I have the crop rot + silver bullets. I'll still use the birds for now
Great post, thanks.

Unless you're on a SFM build, I still don't like BoP... I would go with either Elves of Deep Shadow or Avacyn's Pilgrim because they provide a color you may not yet have access to but they're also 1/1's which means they can potentially attack and deal with something like a Goblin Lackey or hold back a Young Pyromancer. The exception to this being if you're expecting a lot of Marit Lage.

[Mr. Safety]

I definitely have some number of depths players in my meta, or at least did...i get your point however.

[Matsu]

...
necessary mana:
1. 4x GSZ + 1x Arbor + 22x other lands (need 2)
2. 4x GSZ + 2x DRS + 8 fetch + 15 other lands
3. 4x GSZ + 4x Vet + 7x sacrifice (4 therapy, 2 rotation, 1 tower) + 23x land

When you put these together, you get the following percentages:
1. 23.8%
2. 33.4%
3. 27.5%

This means you've got about a 63.2% chance of your opening hand containing the necessary mana for your deck to play the game.

If you exclude Crop Rotation that drops to 60%. If you exclude Crop Rotation and Arbor that drops to 31.7%. If you exclude Crop Rotation, Arbor, and manadorks that drops to 21.2%.
...

Breal, do you play or have included in your calculation Sakura Tribe Elder. STE was the first card i have though after DRS ban.

[Echelon]

Breal, do you play or have included in your calculation Sakura Tribe Elder. STE was the first card i have though after DRS ban.

STE doesn't enable having 3 mana available at the beginning of T2 so it's not part of those calculations.

[Matsu]

STE doesn't enable having 3 mana available at the beginning of T2 so it's not part of those calculations.



Agreed, I will have to try Crop Rotation i have a least one copy at home so i will try with this at the beginning.

I know it is very early in the meta game, but it looks like Reanimator, Canadian threshold and Miracles are on the way to dominate the current metagame.

What to you think of Deadeye Tracker as a replacement to DRS in the one mana slot, some sort of GY control , drawing engine, mana sink and possible threat in the longer game?

[Echelon]

What to you think of Deadeye Tracker as a replacement to DRS in the one mana slot, some sort of GY control , drawing engine, mana sink and possible threat in the longer game?

A big, resounding "No".

[kombatkiwi]

A big, resounding "No".

I don't think this card is a terrible suggestion.
I agree it's not necessarily a DRS 'replacement' (not being able to add mana) but it's a deceptively powerful card in its own right, I can see it being even stronger if you are stacking your deck with Guile/Sylvan.
A significant drawback though is that a lot of the utility in this card comes from the graveyard-hate aspect of it, therefore it overlaps with Scavenging Ooze a lot, you probably don't want both, and Deadeye is not GSZ-able...

[Gazoline]

Hello everyone!
Long time no see:)
After DRS ban i wanna get back to nicfit again. I believe it can be great in the meta to come if we can find an answer to Reanimator:) I really like the thought of Crop rotation.

So this are my thoughts, im probably all over the place since i havent really played magic for last 6months and been over a year since i played nicfit. Im also thinking about jund, wouldnt jund be nice? play slaughter games, crop bojuka, punishing engine against stoneforge.

CREATURES (17)
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Eternal Witness
2 Siege Rhino
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Grave Titan
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
1 Dryad Arbor

ENCHANTMENTS (2)
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare

SORCERIES (11)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
2 Painful Truths
1 Thoughtseize

INSTANTS (8)
3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Crop Rotation

LANDS (22)
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp

SIDEBOARD (15)
2 Containment Priest
2 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Scavenging Ooze

Please dont flame me to much ;)
/Gaz

[Echelon]

Hello everyone!
Long time no see:)
After DRS ban i wanna get back to nicfit again. I believe it can be great in the meta to come if we can find an answer to Reanimator:) I really like the thought of Crop rotation.

So this are my thoughts, im probably all over the place since i havent really played magic for last 6months and been over a year since i played nicfit. Im also thinking about jund, wouldnt jund be nice? play slaughter games, crop bojuka, punishing engine against stoneforge.

...List...

Please dont flame me to much ;)
/Gaz

So... Your manabase is unstable. You only run 13 initial green mana sources and even less for the other colours. This means that you'll lose more games than you should to be being manascrewed.

Rhonas probably is a poor fit, as your threats should function on an empty board.

Grave Titan in my opinion is outclassed by Archon of Valor's Reach, which incidentally also does work vs. Reanimator if you ever manage to resolve it.

As for the SB, Containment Priest probably isn't the best choice as it also shuts down GSZ. Thrun, Tasigur, Diabolic Intent and the second Scavenging Ooze are all basically wasted slots. You don't need help in the fair MUs and Thrun is too small to be really relevant in that regard. Tasigur folds to Karakas, can't answer a resolved Gurmag Angler and can't be GSZ'd for. Scavenging Ooze is probably too slow as GY hate out of the SB, especially since 2 out of 3 times you'll have to GSZ for it. Diabolic Intent is just too risky a card to run. You're probably better off replacing it w/ a silver bullet for one of your worst MUs. Instead of drawing Intent and having to search for an answer in that case you'll have drawn the answer you need.

Surgical Extraction would probably be a nice anti GY card. Lost Legacy could do work across a whole range of MUs, from Reanimator to other fast combo (including Elves!, mind you) to Miracles (bye bye, Terminus - Miracles can be a hard MU b/c they have such an easy time answering any board presence). Other notable inclusions would be Gaddock Teeg and Ethersworn Canonist.

[Gazoline]

iwas running both Gaddock and cannonist at first but backed downXD

thanks alot for your reply i will certanily listen to it and make some changes! :D

Would you say one more windswept fetch is enough? not sure what else i should do... Mana base and sideboarding as always been my two hardest part of nicfit...

[Matsu]

I don't think this card is a terrible suggestion.
I agree it's not necessarily a DRS 'replacement' (not being able to add mana) but it's a deceptively powerful card in its own right, I can see it being even stronger if you are stacking your deck with Guile/Sylvan.
A significant drawback though is that a lot of the utility in this card comes from the graveyard-hate aspect of it, therefore it overlaps with Scavenging Ooze a lot, you probably don't want both, and Deadeye is not GSZ-able...

I thought about this interaction when you can have Deadeye Tracker and Sylvan Library.
I think in a proper build and depending on the metagame this card might be very good.
The biggest upside is the possibility to draw a card and trimming you opponent graveyard.

This is a situation I had a couple of times during playing. I have between 4 to 8 mana, both players are after a board reset and you are in a top deck war. That is why I was looking at Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Deadeye Tracker with the amount of mana available you can spend it each turn to do something useful instead. Planeswalker are great at that, but I was looking for creatures also, to have some flexibility during deck building.

[kombatkiwi]

I thought about this interaction when you can have Deadeye Tracker and Sylvan Library.
I think in a proper build and depending on the metagame this card might be very good.
The biggest upside is the possibility to draw a card and trimming you opponent graveyard.

This is a situation I had a couple of times during playing. I have between 4 to 8 mana, both players are after a board reset and you are in a top deck war. That is why I was looking at Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Deadeye Tracker with the amount of mana available you can spend it each turn to do something useful instead. Planeswalker are great at that, but I was looking for creatures also, to have some flexibility during deck building.

Sounds like a spot where you want Meren TBH

[csanders]

Former BUG Pile player looking for a new lease on life now that DRS is gone. I've liked the feel of Nic Fit for a while, but currently only have the manabase for BUG. Is BUG Fit even viable at this point? I threw together a rough list, after digging around online for some old lists.

Really, I just want to play Leovold... can BUG Fit get me there? Please rip me apart. :)

Maindeck (61)
Creatures (15):
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
1 Eternal Witness
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Thragtusk
1 Carnage Tyrant

Walkers (2):
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Nissa, Vital Force

Spells (21):
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Crop Rotation
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Collective Brutality
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Maelstrom Pulse

Lands (23):
2 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
2 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard (15)
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Diabolic Edict
4 Force of Will

[Mr. Safety]

So, list.

4x Veteran Explorer
1x birds of paradise
1x dryad arbor
4x siege rhino
1x qasali pridemage
1x scavenging ooze
1x eternal witness
1x doran, the Siege tower
1x sigarda, host of herons
1x meren of clan nel toth
4x green sun's zenith
4x cabal therapy
3x path to exile
2x abrupt decay
3x pernicious deed
1x painful truths
2x sylvan library
2x crop rotation
1x liliana, the Last Hope
1x nissa, vital force
4x verdant catacombs
3x windswept heath
1x marsh flats
1x wooded foothills
1x bloodstained mire
1x bayou
1x Savannah
1x scrubland
3x forest
2x swamp
2x plains
1x phyrexian tower

Sideboard
1x bojuka bog
1x karakas
3x duress
2x ethersworn canonist
1x gaddock teeg
1x golgari charm
1x toxic deluge
2x surgical extraction
1x reclamation sage
2x lost legacy


Sideboard is pure guessing. Lost Legacy seems very good in an open meta. What are people's thoughts on a Stoneforge package (5-7 slots)? I think deed has to be pushed aside to make way for it, but it seems very strong.

P.s. - I know birds should be noble, I'm working on it!

Edit: could go 61 and maindeck bog/rec sage, or garruk relentless.

[RhoxWarMonk]

This version went 5-0 post-ban. I like the list, some interesting inclusions (Scarab God...?? Really?) :eek:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1183679#paper

[Brael]

This version went 5-0 post-ban. I like the list, some interesting inclusions (Scarab God...?? Really?) :eek:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1183679#paper

The person who plays it is in the discord all the time, by the name Solnox.

[lavafrogg]

Safety: Do you have a straight GB list for the new meta? I'm looking at something low to the ground with crop rotation into bog/karakas main.

[Ronald Deuce]

Have any of the BUGgists in this thread tried Species Gorger? Feels like it does a lot of things we'd want, and it doesn't need a stocked graveyard to give us some recursion. Interested to hear what people think.

[Plm]

@ lavafrogg : what you describe sound like Brael's bob fit list. I think he posted one not long ago but I can't remember if it was before the ban.

@ spicies gorger : when in blue go for grave titan, not for a worse meren (DRS gone, your graveyard is gonna be stocked whereas gorger does nothing on en empty board, I like that it is 6/6 though)

[conboy31]

Have any of the BUGgists in this thread tried Species Gorger? Feels like it does a lot of things we'd want, and it doesn't need a stocked graveyard to give us some recursion. Interested to hear what people think.

If you were to untap with that creature, Titania Argoth would have likely given you 15 power worth of creatures.

The scarab god deck looks sweet though my first inclination would be to cut white (2 duals, 2 rhino) for an on color dual and 3 other gx creatures. I doubt it would make the mana worse despite 1 fewer land, still have 22 and 4 brainstorm. I'll probably try his stock list first.

[RhoxWarMonk]

If you were to untap with that creature, Titania Argoth would have likely given you 15 power worth of creatures.

The scarab god deck looks sweet though my first inclination would be to cut white (2 duals, 2 rhino) for an on color dual and 3 other gx creatures. I doubt it would make the mana worse despite 1 fewer land, still have 22 and 4 brainstorm. I'll probably try his stock list first.

My thoughts too, I'm not sure Seige Rhino is worth splashing an extra color for and giving yourself a more shaky manabase, especially with no deathrites but his list is still really interesting all the same. I'll likely try it in it's current state as well, but like you, I'm really leaning towards cutting white in favor of another Gx spell + dual or fetch. I'd love to make room for LtLH along with the 2 JtMS, so maybe that'll be the first thing I test out.

Any suggestions on some creatures that's worth subbing into this slot for?

[conboy31]

Probably try adding 1 Sage from the sb and adding a 4th Leyline or first surgical. The last 2 cards would presumably have to be fairly high impact to supplant rhino given he wants to splash for it.

[Ralf]

Safety: Do you have a straight GB list for the new meta? I'm looking at something low to the ground with crop rotation into bog/karakas main.

I played a lot this list before DRS was banned to some very good results.

This is an attrition based list but when you are in the driver seat, it is nearly unstoppable:

Golgari Fit:

1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Wall of Blossoms -> this could be a visionary / sylvan ranger
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Fierce Empath
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Carnage Tyrant

1 Pernicious Deed

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Crop Rotation

4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Ghost Quarter
5 Forest
1 Karakas
3 Swamp
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Polluted Delta

1 Nissa, Vital Force

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge

Sideboard

1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Golgari Charm
1 Pulse of Murasa
2 Duress
4 Lost Legacy
1 xXx (open slot)

[Brael]

Breal, do you play or have included in your calculation Sakura Tribe Elder. STE was the first card i have though after DRS ban.

Sakura Tribe Elder has another calculation, it's ok if you change your metric to turn 3. Because I play lower curve decks I'm more interested in looking at the acceleration to play a powerful 3 drop on turn 2 (or two other cards), than trying to get a 4 drop on turn 3.

STE is a good card and a fine thing to include in most builds, but the acceleration it offers is very different from the acceleration a 1 CMC card offers.

[Brael]

Hello everyone!
Long time no see:)
After DRS ban i wanna get back to nicfit again. I believe it can be great in the meta to come if we can find an answer to Reanimator:) I really like the thought of Crop rotation.


Rework your manabase a bit. A 3/2/2 split of basics is likely bad here because you'll be a bit inconsistent in getting a T1 Veteran.

I would probably look at this for a manabase:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
1 Savannah
5 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor

This results in 17 T1 green sources, 12 T1 black, and 11 T1 white

It's possible only having 1 dual to get white is a problem, but in a Crop Rotation build I think you can get away with it since there's still a Plains, in addition to 4 Vet+2 Crop+4 fetches to get it. So in reality you have 10 sources of that basic Plains.

Do note, this manabase makes your Grave Titan and Sigarda unplayable so you'll need to find a substitute. I would suggest 1-2 Archons in place of those. I would consider a flip Nissa as well to take advantage of the Forest count.

[Brael]

Safety: Do you have a straight GB list for the new meta? I'm looking at something low to the ground with crop rotation into bog/karakas main.

That's pretty much what I play. I haven't come up with a pure BG list yet that I like. I'm still thinking about some options. I've been more interested in abusing Intuition now that the great oppressor is gone, but I'm sure I'll get back to it before long.

This is where my list currently is, but as I said... it needs some work, particularly since I no longer think Armasaur makes the cut.

Land (23)

2x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dryad Arbor
5x Forest
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Phyrexian Tower
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volrath's Stronghold

Instant (6)

2x Abrupt Decay
2x Crop Rotation
2x Diabolic Edict

Creature (19)

1x Chameleon Colossus
4x Dark Confidant
1x Eternal Witness
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip
1x Runic Armasaur
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Tireless Tracker
4x Veteran Explorer

Sorcery (11)

4x Cabal Therapy
1x Collective Brutality
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Toxic Deluge

Enchantment (1)

1x Pernicious Deed

My main thought is that I think a combination of Steve/Meren/Nissa/Tracker makes for a really good value shell. Armasaur likely wants to be a Thragtusk instead, and I'm not too thrilled about Chameleon Colossus right now, I think it instead wants to be a card that makes for good Tower food.

[Mr. Safety]

Safety: Do you have a straight GB list for the new meta? I'm looking at something low to the ground with crop rotation into bog/karakas main.

I'm still committed to white and siege rhino. Crop Rotation I am using, in the main just for tower. I have a karakas and bog in the board. I ended up with 1 bop to include; it's a decent mana ramp with gsz if I don't have a sac outlet for veteran.

If you're looking for low to the ground I think dark confidant is really valuable. I would look to drop the clunkier big threats and instead just focus on bob and definitely use Mirri's Guile. T1 guile t2 Bob sounds good to me.

I can't help but think that it would be better to just go rock if you want a purely efficient list. I'd probably use wastelands and gsz into ramanup excavator, then go for goyfs and cheap spells. If you really want just a Bg list, brael should have you covered.

[Mr. Safety]

That's pretty much what I play. I haven't come up with a pure BG list yet that I like. I'm still thinking about some options. I've been more interested in abusing Intuition now that the great oppressor is gone, but I'm sure I'll get back to it before long.

This is where my list currently is, but as I said... it needs some work, particularly since I no longer think Armasaur makes the cut.

Land (23)

2x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dryad Arbor
5x Forest
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Phyrexian Tower
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volrath's Stronghold

Instant (6)

2x Abrupt Decay
2x Crop Rotation
2x Diabolic Edict

Creature (19)

1x Chameleon Colossus
4x Dark Confidant
1x Eternal Witness
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip
1x Runic Armasaur
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Tireless Tracker
4x Veteran Explorer

Sorcery (11)

4x Cabal Therapy
1x Collective Brutality
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Toxic Deluge

Enchantment (1)

1x Pernicious Deed

My main thought is that I think a combination of Steve/Meren/Nissa/Tracker makes for a really good value shell. Armasaur likely wants to be a Thragtusk instead, and I'm not too thrilled about Chameleon Colossus right now, I think it instead wants to be a card that makes for good Tower food.

Kitchen finks?

[conboy31]

particularly since I no longer think Armasaur makes the cut.

What have you found with the dino? I was cautiously optimistic and planning on getting 1.

[Brael]

What have you found with the dino? I was cautiously optimistic and planning on getting 1.

It does a lot less without DRS in the meta. There's still a few decks that it's good against, but until the meta shakes out it seems like more of a SB option than anything.

[solnox]

I went up to 2 rhino because its a fairly easy splash and BUG has shit fatties to GSZ for. Preban, I was on a Savannah +1 Rhino.

The Scarab God is actually pretty strong in the matchups you want it in, namely any grindy creature matchup.

I'm a firm believer that you dont really need all your bombs to be GSZable hence only 3 GSZ. With JTMS, Brainstorms, Strix, tracker, filtering to your bombs is fairly easy.

the matchups I faced were UB Reanimator, RB Reanimator, RUG Delver, Jeskai Delver and Death and Taxes.

[kombatkiwi]

the matchups I faced were UB Reanimator, RB Reanimator,
Scarab God = 5mana Scavenging Ooze klappa

I'm also skeptical that it's correct to splash only for Rhino but I like the look of the rest of the list.

[solnox]

the list is a lot leaner to the ground with a minimal "cool things" outside of The Scarab God. I havent had any issues with casting rhino or getting to it but a 4/5 Trampling body is something bug doesnt really have access to.

[Captain Hammer]

Safety: Do you have a straight GB list for the new meta? I'm looking at something low to the ground with crop rotation into bog/karakas main.

A straight BG list with Crop Rotation I would probably incorporate Marit Lage into it.

I’m more tempted by a BG list with Natural Order and a light blue splash for Brainstorm.

[Gazoline]

Rework your manabase a bit. A 3/2/2 split of basics is likely bad here because you'll be a bit inconsistent in getting a T1 Veteran.

I would probably look at this for a manabase:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
1 Savannah
5 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor

This results in 17 T1 green sources, 12 T1 black, and 11 T1 white

It's possible only having 1 dual to get white is a problem, but in a Crop Rotation build I think you can get away with it since there's still a Plains, in addition to 4 Vet+2 Crop+4 fetches to get it. So in reality you have 10 sources of that basic Plains.

Do note, this manabase makes your Grave Titan and Sigarda unplayable so you'll need to find a substitute. I would suggest 1-2 Archons in place of those. I would consider a flip Nissa as well to take advantage of the Forest count.

Thanks alot for the help! Very appriciated! =)

[Mr. Safety]

A straight BG list with Crop Rotation I would probably incorporate Marit Lage into it.

I’m more tempted by a BG list with Natural Order and a light blue splash for Brainstorm.

I was debating Natural Order myself, with 1-2 targets (Progenitus, Worldspine Wurm.) In a deck that already goes bigger than most others I don't see why this is necessary, same with DD combo. In order to have consistency for a splash combo, you would still need 1 each of the lands (Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage) and then have 4x Hexmage. If you play 4x each of Depths/Stage you royally fuck over the mana-base, and at that point it would have to be Depths combo splashing GSZ. With big mana (explorer/therapy/tower) and Natural Order you are basically playing an old-style Tinker deck. GSZ is more akin to Survival, albeit no real combo potential, unless you go deep on Knight of the Reliquary, and once you do that, Maverick splashing DD combo is really a better option.

I tried doing GB nic fit with DD combo, even playing Primeval Titan to tutor up the pieces. The issue is this: if you already have a 6/6 trampler in play, why do you need an overkill 20/20? DD combo is actually hard to splash in and work appropriately unless you have another reason for having Hexmage in your deck (like anti-PW/Chalice tech, you can afford 4 flex spots to go to a utility creature.) Honestly, Crop Rotation is a powerful enough card doing things like Karakas/Bojuka Bog/Maze of Ith/Phyrexian Tower that it doesn't require a broken combo to make it good enough.

The closest thing to what you are mentioning is Slow Depths, which used Deathrite Shaman as the glue to hold it together. Deathrite slotted in for acceleration but also as a premier threat, only taking up 4 slots to do it. GSZ requires so much more deck space to justify itself: GSZ itself, 1-4 Veteran Explorers, 1+ utility silver bullet targets. At the bare minimum you're talking 6-8+ slots, and that's if you only want to get mana from GSZ or silver bullets like Gaddock Teeg, Reclamation Sage, and Scavenging Ooze.

There is a discussion about this a few pages back, I'll try and link it here.

EDIT: Here is a link to the page, and a detailed response from pettdan, which is what convinced me to switch over to Rhino Fit.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31293-Primer-Nic-Fit/page127&highlight=hexmage

[Ralf]

I was debating Natural Order myself, with 1-2 targets (Progenitus, Worldspine Wurm.) In a deck that already goes bigger than most others I don't see why this is necessary, same with DD combo. In order to have consistency for a splash combo, you would still need 1 each of the lands (Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage) and then have 4x Hexmage. If you play 4x each of Depths/Stage you royally fuck over the mana-base, and at that point it would have to be Depths combo splashing GSZ. With big mana (explorer/therapy/tower) and Natural Order you are basically playing an old-style Tinker deck. GSZ is more akin to Survival, albeit no real combo potential, unless you go deep on Knight of the Reliquary, and once you do that, Maverick splashing DD combo is really a better option.

I tried doing GB nic fit with DD combo, even playing Primeval Titan to tutor up the pieces. The issue is this: if you already have a 6/6 trampler in play, why do you need an overkill 20/20? DD combo is actually hard to splash in and work appropriately unless you have another reason for having Hexmage in your deck (like anti-PW/Chalice tech, you can afford 4 flex spots to go to a utility creature.) Honestly, Crop Rotation is a powerful enough card doing things like Karakas/Bojuka Bog/Maze of Ith/Phyrexian Tower that it doesn't require a broken combo to make it good enough.

The closest thing to what you are mentioning is Slow Depths, which used Deathrite Shaman as the glue to hold it together. Deathrite slotted in for acceleration but also as a premier threat, only taking up 4 slots to do it. GSZ requires so much more deck space to justify itself: GSZ itself, 1-4 Veteran Explorers, 1+ utility silver bullet targets. At the bare minimum you're talking 6-8+ slots, and that's if you only want to get mana from GSZ or silver bullets like Gaddock Teeg, Reclamation Sage, and Scavenging Ooze.

There is a discussion about this a few pages back, I'll try and link it here.

If you ponder a transformational SB, here are a few things that one should consider:

- Ruric Tharr is a must (especially against combo decks)
- Elderscale Wurm cannot be answered by some deck
- Progenitus/Worldspine are indeed very nice

I think there are many other options that should be looked into anyway.

My two cents !

[Vervandi]

I played BUG Nic Fit at FNM a few weeks ago and had a great time, beating Painter and D&T along the way. I had quite a few opening hands with Vet and Therapy that ended up with 3 mana open on turn 2 after flashing back Therapy. I found myself thinking I'd like to be able to use that mana on a planeswalker instead of the creature I had in hand. So I did a little brewing and I think I am going to try "Nissa Fit" at the next legacy FNM this month:

Creatures:18
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Baleful Strix
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

Spells:22
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Diabolic Intent
2 Nissa, Steward of Elements
1 Sylvan Library
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Nissa, Vital Force

Lands:20
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:15
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 To the Slaughter
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Garruk Relentless
4 Force of Will

[lavafrogg]

A straight BG list with Crop Rotation I would probably incorporate Marit Lage into it.

I’m more tempted by a BG list with Natural Order and a light blue splash for Brainstorm.

I am at the point where I feel like BG has enough tools to compete with the format. The stable manabase + explorers are the best ramp, GSZ and Crop Rotation are the best tutors and Tireless Tracker is the best card advantage engine.

Filling outt he rest of the slots is the hard part but I feel like a towers/witness engine beats anything that a late game deck wants to accomplish while deluge/deed can hold down the fort against aggro.

Hymn/Decay/Brutality/Push/Therapy fills the disruption slots and at that point I am just looking at numbers and flex slots.

Working on a list right now but this is where my head is at.

[walked]

Would this thread be the appropriate place to discuss Arena Rector builds; or does that start to deviate far enough into a new archetype to go into New/Dev Decks?

[Mr. Safety]

@lavafrogg: I strongly suggest using Brael's list as a starting point. Remember that Collective Brutality + Lingering Souls is pure gas. If I move back over to Rock I'll definitely be doing 2x Brutality in place of 2 of the hymns and upping my souls count to at least 3, maybe even 4. I feel like in that deck, one of the few that still plays Liliana of the Veil, those cards are incredibly potent. I'd much rather keep cards in hand for Nic Fit, as every threat and disruption counts. Extra lands are something to pitch to Brutality, but even those are incredibly valuable. I am by no means an expert, but Collective Brutality seems to be awkward in this deck, and I dare say even incorrect.

@Ralf: I forgot about Elderscale Wurm and Ruric Thar, definitely very good targets for Natural Order!

If I did a transformational sideboard I would probably do this:

-2 Lost Legacy
-1 Golgari Charm
-1 Toxic Deluge
-1 Reclamation Sage

+3 Natural Order
+2 Beefcakes (probably Ruric Thar + Progenitus)

Elderscale Wurm and Worldspine Wurm both have their merits, one making you *not* lose, the other making you possibly win faster than Progenitus. I think the protection from Progenitus is likely better than Worldspine Wurm, although maybe with a Rhino list it gets the opponent within reach. Everything is weak to Terminus, but that's the only card that really gets us in that situation. It should be easy to have another creature to avoid Diabolic Edict, Karakas can't bounce Progenitus.

I might actually lean towards Elderscale and Ruric Thar, simply because if drawn both are actually reasonable to cast in Nic Fit. Thar needs red, so that is a little awkward, but as a GSZ/NO target it's fine. Elderscale is easily played, even at triple green.

I have much to think about...especially since NO is so affordable and all of the targets are like $5 or less. Easy even for a budget-minded person such as myself.

[TLK]

I'm assuming everyone has seen the Omni-Rector deck Caleb Durward was piloting?


4 Veteran Explorer
3 Academy Rector
3 Arena Rector
1 Karn Liberated
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize
3 Collective Brutality
4 Living Wish
4 Eureka
1 Evolutionary Leap
1 Sylvan Library
1 Dovescape
1 Cruel Reality
1 Overwhelming Splendor
1 Sandwurm Convergence
1 Omniscience
1 Ancient Tomb
2 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Thoughtseize
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Academy Rector
1 Arena Rector
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


And the hilarious turn he had:

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/8x7q7g/calebd_has_a_pretty_good_turn_in_postban_legacy/?st=JJEEM18Q&sh=865451f0

[Mr. Safety]

It's definitely a sweet deck! He's using Eureka and the Rectors, Living Wish, and Evolutionary Leap. It's definitely spicy and super powerful, but Nic Fit it is not.

Thanks for sharing! Maybe it will give some folks in here ideas for how to shape an Arena Rector list.

[Brael]

Would this thread be the appropriate place to discuss Arena Rector builds; or does that start to deviate far enough into a new archetype to go into New/Dev Decks?

Go for it. We have Academy Rector builds in here already.

[Brael]

I am at the point where I feel like BG has enough tools to compete with the format. The stable manabase + explorers are the best ramp, GSZ and Crop Rotation are the best tutors and Tireless Tracker is the best card advantage engine.

Filling outt he rest of the slots is the hard part but I feel like a towers/witness engine beats anything that a late game deck wants to accomplish while deluge/deed can hold down the fort against aggro.

Hymn/Decay/Brutality/Push/Therapy fills the disruption slots and at that point I am just looking at numbers and flex slots.

Working on a list right now but this is where my head is at.

I like putting Bob alongside Tracker. Your first CA creature will likely die. So having 12 draws at repeatable CA (including GSZ), plus Volraths/Crop Rotation to get it back gives you a lot of resilience.

The dirty little secret to Legacy, at least during the DRS era, was that very few decks could beat a lot of card advantage. Plus, with the disruption you're pairing with it, your curve is going to be naturally low anyways which is precisely where Bob wants to be.

That said, I'm not a fan of Hymn, it requires too much of an early commitment to black.

[lavafrogg]

I like putting Bob alongside Tracker. Your first CA creature will likely die. So having 12 draws at repeatable CA (including GSZ), plus Volraths/Crop Rotation to get it back gives you a lot of resilience.

The dirty little secret to Legacy, at least during the DRS era, was that very few decks could beat a lot of card advantage. Plus, with the disruption you're pairing with it, your curve is going to be naturally low anyways which is precisely where Bob wants to be.

That said, I'm not a fan of Hymn, it requires too much of an early commitment to black.

So Hymn for seize or brutality?

Hymn is just really powerful and gets free wins itself. I also love having a real weapon against combo on turn 2.

As the legacy challenges and new lists come out I think this could be a ton of fun.

[Brael]

So Hymn for seize or brutality?

Hymn is just really powerful and gets free wins itself. I also love having a real weapon against combo on turn 2.

As the legacy challenges and new lists come out I think this could be a ton of fun.

I was using Brutality because it also had a kill a DRS mode attached, that's less important now but probably still useful. I would probably do a Thoughtseize/Brutality split.

[ShinKen]

I just went 3-1 with fair Rectors, the Deck felt pretty strong. I like the fair version quite a lot, being able to shift between Beatdown/Enchantments feels much more consistent than normal Nyx.
I beat miracles, dredge & MUD in 3, lost to death's shadow /w stifle in 2.

4 vet
1 scooze
1 steve
3 tracker
1 witness
3 rector
1 thragtusk
1 sigarda

1 garruk relentless

4 zenith
4 therapy
4 swords
1 decay
1 brutality
1 vindicate
1 diabolic intent

1 guile
1 library
2 deed
1 splendor
1 cruel reality
1 curse of death's hold

4 catacombs
4 heaths
2 bayou
1 savannah
1 scrubland
3 forest
2 plains
2 swamp
1 karakas
1 stronghold
1 tower

SB:
2 thoughtseize
1 teeg
1 rec sage
2 crop rotation
1 bog
2 faerie macabre
1 to the slaughter
1 deluge
1 lost legacy
1 carpet
1 nissa VF
1 curse of exhaustion

Honestly, looping faerie with stronghold against dredge was pretty sweet, though I'd probably play Leylines right now if I had them. Also the games against MUD were a blast, somehow I won the round even though he managed to destroy my enchantments every game. I'm definitely looking forward to trying out Archon when it arrives in the mail, porbably over sigarda, and I feel like I want a second carpet of flowers, though I'm not sure what the cut is.

[solnox]

I think if you're in straight GB, hymn >Brutality. The raw power of hymn gets so many free wins and its better to have brutality in the board.

Something I've been playing around with has been Ballista, Traverse and Volrath's Stronghold. Ballista+Stronghold is pretty gg vs Miracles if you can ever get that going.

[NON]

Trying something different to stimulate discussion. Here's a list of observations, truisms, and unabashed claims. I'm not putting this out there as gospel; rather, I'm looking to start a discussion on what the archetype is about, and I welcome disagreements. Here we go:

In the near to medium term, the ban is slightly negative for us. With DRS gone, decks will pack more graveyard hate in their sideboards, and the collateral damage is going to hurt our gameplan. This, coupled with the fact that combo decks surge in popularity in new and uncertain metas, doesn't bode well for us. On the flip side, the projected rise of RUG, Miracles, and D&T is good for us.

In the long term, it's difficult to tell where the meta will go. One observation is that without DRS, the curve for fair decks will drop a bit, making Pernicious Deed slightly better.

The reasons to be in blue are Brainstorm, Leovold, Jace, Flusterstorm, and (at your discretion) Force of Will. I added FoW to my sideboard shortly before the ban and really liked it; I think it's even more useful now that the meta is shifting toward combo.

The reasons to be in red are the Scapeshift combo and Red Blasts. Punishing Fire is suspect and Sneak Attack is probably obsolete.

The reason to be in white is Academy Rector. Fair junk builds don't cut it anymore. The exception may be if your meta is overrun by Lands, Turbo Depths, and/or Burn, as Path and Rhinos shore up those otherwise problematic matchups.

Three colors is the sweet spot. There isn't enough to gain from straight GB builds to justify not adding a third color, and four color lists get clunky quickly.

[Echelon]

If your meta is overrun w/ Land/Turbo Depths you might just not want to play Nic Fit at all lol

Fair Junk is in a pretty decent place, dependant on the meta. It's just changed a bit from what it once was.

[kramer733]

what's the discord channel for nicfit?

[Echelon]

This should be it:
https://discordapp.com/channels/286158479398404097/286158479398404097

[Brael]

I think if you're in straight GB, hymn >Brutality. The raw power of hymn gets so many free wins and its better to have brutality in the board.

Something I've been playing around with has been Ballista, Traverse and Volrath's Stronghold. Ballista+Stronghold is pretty gg vs Miracles if you can ever get that going.

Agree on Ballista, I had played with it a bit when it first came out. It was ok, but not great. I think it's getting better now.

Disagree on Hymn though, Hymn capable opening hands tend to have pretty vulnerable mana since the best card to open on is Forest (in most matchups).

[Brael]

There isn't enough to gain from straight GB builds to justify not adding a third color

You gain consistency, speed, and resiliency by having better mana.

Playing 2 colors means you like actually casting your spells more than the 3 color folks.

[lavafrogg]

You gain consistency, speed, and resiliency by having better mana.

Playing 2 colors means you like actually casting your spells more than the 3 color folks.

You also get access to double black spells much earlier in the game. I have been strongly considering Hymns and Lilliana as a way to fight combo decks while our engines come alive.

You also get the game breaking explorer>therapy>therapy>Hymn play as a nut draw which is the best start the deck can have against the field IMO.

[Brael]

Explorer, Therapy, Therapy, Hymn requires 3 basic Swamps in the deck, 4 if you don't open on Bayou, 5 if you want insurance against accidentally drawing one. Few GB decks run that. At also leaves you with only one green mana as you untap into T3 which severely restricts how your deck curves out.

Hymn is powerful, but in a deck that's base green the double black is a huge cost. LotV has a much lower deck building restriction but tends to not be great unless you have some sort of engine to take advantage of the discard. Punishing Flames is one such way, Lingering Souls is another, but neither is really great for us... or fits in pure BG.

[lavafrogg]

Explorer, Therapy, Therapy, Hymn requires 3 basic Swamps in the deck, 4 if you don't open on Bayou, 5 if you want insurance against accidentally drawing one. Few GB decks run that. At also leaves you with only one green mana as you untap into T3 which severely restricts how your deck curves out.

Hymn is powerful, but in a deck that's base green the double black is a huge cost. LotV has a much lower deck building restriction but tends to not be great unless you have some sort of engine to take advantage of the discard. Punishing Flames is one such way, Lingering Souls is another, but neither is really great for us... or fits in pure BG.

Dark Confidant and Tireless Tracker are the engines to take advantage of LotV, but I also think she is more than a 1 of utility card. The mana base is super doable with 4 forests 3 swamps, 4 bayou and a GSZ package to hold it together.

I am still working on the numbers and am appreciative of the feedback.

[jbone2016]

So.....a thought occurred to me.
Are any of the sagas powerful enough to run in rector?

[Echelon]

So.....a thought occurred to me.
Are any of the sagas powerful enough to run in rector?

In short - nope :laugh:

They don't nearly have the impact the enchantments we currently run do.

[lavafrogg]

First Draft that I am going to play tomorrow in a double up:

Dudes(18)
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tireless Tracker
2 Eternal Witness
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Reclamation Sage

Disruption (14)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Collective Brutality

Utility(7)
4 Green Suns Zenith
2 Crop Rotation
1 Liliana of the Veil

Land(21)
4 Forest
3 Swamps
2 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas

Sideboard(15)
3 Surgical Extractions
2 Lost Legacy
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Crop Rotation
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Choke

What you got?

The game plan is to strip their hand and lock down the game with witness recursion.

[Fatal]

First Draft that I am going to play tomorrow in a double up:

Dudes(18)
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tireless Tracker
2 Eternal Witness
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Reclamation Sage

Disruption (14)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Collective Brutality

Utility(7)
4 Green Suns Zenith
2 Crop Rotation
1 Liliana of the Veil

Land(21)
4 Forest
3 Swamps
2 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas

Sideboard(15)
3 Surgical Extractions
2 Lost Legacy
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Crop Rotation
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Choke

What you got?

The game plan is to strip their hand and lock down the game with witness recursion.

With so low curve I would add 1 Savannah or scrubland and gaddock MD. It would gives additional angle against combo, similar to Maverick.

P.S. you don't have any removal vs Angler or Mandrills MD/SB.
As for hardlock better would be Fournal Charm which discard any card.
Other option is to splash Red, and add K.Command which would give other options like pyroblasts etc..

[Captain Hammer]

With so low curve I would add 1 Savannah or scrubland and gaddock MD. It would gives additional angle against combo, similar to Maverick.

P.S. you don't have any removal vs Angler or Mandrills MD/SB.
As for hardlock better would be Fournal Charm which discard any card.
Other option is to splash Red, and add K.Command which would give other options like pyroblasts etc..

Agree completely.

All of the 2 ofs should be 1 ofs to make room for additional utility creatures.

The deck needs to play a single zenithable Glissa the Traitor to dominate the board, and a single teeg wouldn't hurt.

[Mr. Safety]

Agree completely.

All of the 2 ofs should be 1 ofs to make room for additional utility creatures.

The deck needs to play a single zenithable Glissa the Traitor to dominate the board, and a single teeg wouldn't hurt.

I agree with this, with a caveat. While I think the witness engine is incredible, I think it would be good to include something to pay it off better. You're going to have boatloads of mana in the mid-late game with very few payoffs. The witness/Stronghold engine is great, but susceptible to Wasteland. I think there are a few cards that could really make this payoff a little better:
1) Shriekmaw (pretty decent with Stronghold, this can't answer all threats though. Weaker due to Gurmag in the format.)
2) Profane Command (janky, but loops with Witness just like Stronghold. And it scales up; the more mana you have, the better it gets. Your discard should clear the way.)
3) Unearh (very efficient engine with Eternal Witness

Other than that, I think working 1-2 big GSZ targets is wise, probably a Carnage Tyrant and a Thragtusk. This addresses the Gurmag/beefy opposing threat problem by matching it with your own, likely bigger threat. Tusk trades with angler, gains 5, and leaves a 3/3 behind. Tyrant will resolve if cast, tramples, and beats the snot out of Angler and usually even Tarmogoyf.

If you use Glissa I think working in Engineered Explosives, along with a splashed 3rd color dual, would be very good as well.

TL,DR: Squeeze in a couple big GSZ targets and don't be afraid to go janky on an open format.

[Mr. Safety]

What are people's thoughts about Traverse the Ulvenwald? Early it gets land drops, late it gets dudes. Seems like it could be a 1-2 of in the deck.

[Matsu]

What are people's thoughts about Traverse the Ulvenwald? Early it gets land drops, late it gets dudes. Seems like it could be a 1-2 of in the deck.

I remember someone was trying Traverse the Ulvenwald. I think crop rotation might be better here, I will personally play Oath of Nissa

The problem with Traverse is at the beginning it might be worse then Rotation and the moment you have delirium it is another GSZ. I do not know if this is worth playing. Maybe someone has a different opinion/experience.

Did anyone tried NicFit in the new meta?

[Brael]

What are people's thoughts about Traverse the Ulvenwald? Early it gets land drops, late it gets dudes. Seems like it could be a 1-2 of in the deck.

It changes your focus from a green based deck using GSZ to a blue/black deck where green is the third color. It could work with DRS gone, but it's a very significant change to the deck.

[kramer733]

This should be it:
https://discordapp.com/channels/286158479398404097/286158479398404097

It seems like when I click the link, it leads me to a dead end.

[Brael]

It seems like when I click the link, it leads me to a dead end.

Discord image links are deleted after 24 hours.

[jbone2016]

Did anyone tried NicFit in the new meta?

I've been fooling around with a 6 rector build (3 of each) but it hasn't been good so far. I have run into some nic fit mirrors, however.

[walked]

I've been fooling around with a 6 rector build (3 of each) but it hasn't been good so far. I have run into some nic fit mirrors, however.

Curious about your list. I've also been run into 6 rectors and have been really impressed. I'll post mine when I'm off mobile.

[walked]

Alright here's my current build. It's putting up a pretty absurdly reasonable win-rate in testing. It still needs to be tweaked a bit; I think I need a third decay to deal with RIP (one in the side); and surgical/leyline are an obvious nonbo.

Worst matchups are obviously combo G1; but g2/g3 it gets much better.

2 Swamp
3 Forest
2 Phyrexian Tower
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
3 Arena Rector
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Collective Brutality
2 Evolutionary Leap
2 Lingering Souls
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Dovescape
1 Ajani Unyielding
1 Overwhelming Splendor
3 Academy Rector
2 Plains
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Garruk, Apex Predator

1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Lost Legacy
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void

[Scott]

Two Nic Fit 5-0 decks in yesterday's MTGO results (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2018-07-14), one of them particularly spicy:

// Planeswalkers
1 Karn Liberated
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// Creatures
3 Academy Rector
3 Arena Rector
4 Veteran Explorer

// Sorceries
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Collective Brutality
3 Eureka
4 Living Wish
1 Thoughtseize

// Enchantments
1 Cruel Reality
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Dovescape
1 Evolutionary Leap
1 Omniscience
1 Overwhelming Splendor
1 Sandwurm Convergence
1 Sylvan Library

// Lands
1 Ancient Tomb
2 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Phyrexian Tower
SB: 1 Arena Rector
SB: 1 Cavern of Souls
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 2 Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 Academy Rector
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

[Echelon]

Seeing a straight BG list is pretty unusual too

[lavafrogg]

Seeing a straight BG list is pretty unusual too

1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker


1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
2 Grave Titan
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
4 Veteran Explorer

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Diabolic Edict
3 Pernicious Deed

2 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

1 Diabolic Edict
1 Engineered Plague
1 Golgari Charm
1 Kitchen Finks
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Lost Legacy
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sylvan Library
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Thoughtseize

Love the list: I have been moving away from Confidant with the excess of "new" value creatures in G.

[ObligatoryReference]

Two Nic Fit 5-0 decks in yesterday's MTGO results (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2018-07-14), one of them particularly spicy:
<list>


That is spicy. Maybe I'll try to pull it together in time for GP Sac this weekend.

EDIT: ...aaaand Eureka in paper is going for $350 a pop. Maybe I'll keep this list online. Or do some improvisation.

[walked]

That is spicy. Maybe I'll try to pull it together in time for GP Sac this weekend.

EDIT: ...aaaand Eureka in paper is going for $350 a pop. Maybe I'll keep this list online. Or do some improvisation.

Take a look at mine above. I think Eureka is the wrong path. But double rector build is performing.

Currently 3-0 in my current league and the list feels very solid

[jbone2016]

Take a look at mine above. I think Eureka is the wrong path. But double rector build is performing.

Currently 3-0 in my current league and the list feels very solid

Not sure if I just have had bad matchups or what but I have tried different rector builds (including a GW version) and have only had one 3-2 to show for it.

[lavafrogg]

Dudes (13)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Ranumap Excavator
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

Disruption (15)
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Collective Brutality
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Diabolic Edict

Utility (10)
4 Green Suns Zenith
2 Crop Rotation
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Diabolic Intent

Land (22)
4 Forest
3 Swamps
2 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas

Sideboard (15)
3 Surgical Extractions
3 Lost Legacy
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Crop Rotation
2 Choke
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Maze of Ith
1 Hymn to Tourach

Next draft, I have 2 weeks to get something together for the top 8 of my league.

[Matsu]

Not sure if I just have had bad matchups or what but I have tried different rector builds (including a GW version) and have only had one 3-2 to show for it.

Same here.

The deck is clunky you have to play a 4cmc tutor and sac it to have profits. Maybe I had a wrong approach to it.
But after looking at the recently posted results of Legacy Tourny. I am tempted to sleeve a WBG Birthing Pod/Recurring nightmare deck with an infinity life combo and plenty of discard spells

[Gazoline]

Same here.

The deck is clunky you have to play a 4cmc tutor and sac it to have profits. Maybe I had a wrong approach to it.
But after looking at the recently posted results of Legacy Tourny. I am tempted to sleeve a WBG Birthing Pod/Recurring nightmare deck with an infinity life combo and plenty of discard spells

Ive been thinking the same thing! But my trail of thought is that it might be much weaker atm, since it will be more artifact removal and graveyard hate due to stoneforge, reanimator and dredge decks.
I would love to hear your thought of it :) because i really love the idea of getting pod to work :)

[keldon]

Hi guys, I'm new here.

I had an idea of running a nic fit-y thing relying on Sneak Attack together with Academy Rector/Omniscience to get out big fatties from the hand like Emrakul and Griselbrand, and skipping the hardcastable guys like Thragtusk or Siege Rhino. So basically the idea would be to try to make sure to draw either a Sneak Attack or an Academy Rector (with a sac outlet of course, the normal Cabal Therapy/Phyrexian Tower and something more maybe), and at least one of the fatties.

I was also thinking to probably skip the GSZ, since the fatties wouldn't be tutorable with it, and a 2cmc Veteran Explorer doesn't seem all that great.

I was considering DRS but I just realized he was just banned, d'oh... Basically I thought about including Culling the Weak to have another sac outlet and more ramp, but I think I would need more small guys to sac to it than Veteran Explorer, so a mana dork like DRS would probably have fit pretty well, but maybe one could run Birds of Paradise or something then. I mean, the deck would be 4c... Dunno if that's strong enough though...

Other than that, maybe Dark Ritual? It can pay for the 3 grey mana of both Sneak Attack and Academy Rector.

So basically ramp, disruption stuff, Sneak/Rector, fatties...

What do you guys think? Could something like this be cool, like at least playable, or am I bonkers thinking about this?

[square_two]

What do you guys think? Could something like this be cool, like at least playable, or am I bonkers thinking about this?

Welcome!

The 6 Rector / Eureka list posted above is probably a bit closer to what you might be having in mind. Check out the posted Sneak Attack lists and you'll see that there are many many elements outside of the Sneak Attacks and fatties that provide consistency and overall honing of the gameplan. GSZ in general is incredibly helpful even with limited targets - if you have never played nic fit before then you might not realize that GSZ for Veteran Explorer is one of the primary uses of GSZ and is one of the ways to immediately have the mana to hardcast the bigger things (or put up a blocker that they opp won't want to let die). In A-rod's recent versions, Faithless Looting helps to dump excess Attacks and smooths draws, while also comboing well with Meren/Recurring Nightmare. Combining Rector + Sneak Attack seems like it would be stretching the deck in two pretty different directions while exacerbating the manabase, but feel free to experiment.

Personally I enjoy Rector lists that have immediate win-cons (Splendor/Dovescape primarily) instead of having to rely on something nice to cast from hand after Omni is out. The previous Rector/Eureka list can sidestep that with absurd Eureka hands. Sneak Attack and Omni both are going to be weak to hand disruption...the stable Sneak-focused lists use GSZ as a way to help ensure consistency and an available fatty (Fierce Empath ftw) while the more Academy Rector-focused lists have other enchantments to grab which immediately impact the board and could lead to a win without requiring much else.

[sdematt]

With Deathrite gone, I'm excited about bringing back an oldy, but a goody: Recurring Nightmare.

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
3 Siege Rhino
1 Shalai
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Path to Exile
3 Sylvan Library
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Liliana, the Last Hope

2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Taiga
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

//

1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Choke
2 Blood Moon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Thoughtseize
1 Dueling Grounds
1 Celestial Purge
1 Pithing Needle

[Echelon]

@sdematt No Sakura-Tribe Elder, Nissa, Vastwood Seer and Archon of Valors Reach? (Notice I'm using the word "and" :tongue:)

[Matsu]

With Deathrite gone, I'm excited about bringing back an oldy, but a goody: Recurring Nightmare.

...
1 Recurring Nightmare
...



I am also exited but, I have put 3 Nightmares in my deck to abuse ETB :tongue:

I do not know why you have put those two BoP and removed Dryad Arbor.
I think DA might be a better choice unless you plan to face a lot of Wasteland decks or maybe Noble Hierarch.

Is the Taiga for Blood Moon:eyebrow:

[Mr. Safety]

With Deathrite gone, I'm excited about bringing back an oldy, but a goody: Recurring Nightmare.

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
3 Siege Rhino
1 Shalai
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Path to Exile
3 Sylvan Library
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Liliana, the Last Hope

2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Taiga
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

//

1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Choke
2 Blood Moon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Thoughtseize
1 Dueling Grounds
1 Celestial Purge
1 Pithing Needle

Needs more Painful Truths! I would probably cut 1x Library or Decay for a Painful Truths. You convinced me it was good, and it is.

[sdematt]

Needs more Painful Truths! I would probably cut 1x Library or Decay for a Painful Truths. You convinced me it was good, and it is.

Easily shave a Sylvan for one.

STE is great, but I'm looking for Birds to be my generator of red mana to cast Blood Moon (also the Taiga), and I'm not going to run a mountain to cast it. Obviously off of DRS Blood Moon was amazing, and I still think it can be. Yes, fetching into Taiga into moon is also fine, but you don't always want to do that. BOP also produces black mana where Noble doesn't (and don't get me wrong, I love Noble). BOP is also fodder for Nightmare :)

Sure, I'm dipping my toe in with Recurring Nightmare right now. I want to have access to it to bust up board stalemates or getting locked behind Mazes, but I don't want to be a deck that gets hurt by a Rest in Peace or something.

I do face a ton of Wasteland in my meta, DA isn't a great option. I NEED it in my other decks with Equipment, but here I can't spare it.

Like I said, just going to give it a try ;)

[Mr. Safety]

I nabbed a Runic Armasaur and Archon of Valor's Reach at the LGS this past Friday. Armasaur is particularly spicy given my maindeck Doran. I saw Arena Rector in action, it was incredibly good, and I played against it...but I was playing Dreadstill and Stifle fucks up Rector hard. Knowing Nic-Fit, I knew exactly what to let happen and what to Stifle. It's definitely a concern in the new meta-game where RUG Delver is the de-facto best tempo deck.

I'm not sure where Armasaur/Archon fit in the deck, but Archon will likely live in the sideboard. Armasaur seems nutty good against D&T, Miracles, and Stoneblade decks. Even just making Wasteland worse and pressuring Jace seems very good. Armasaur will likely squeeze into the main.

[Ronald Deuce]

Has anyone experimented with Heartwood Storyteller as a potential substitute for Leovold? I'm still putting together a BUGgy list, though I'm as tempted as I've ever been to actually play White cards by paying their mana costs.

[pettdan]

@Ronald_Deuce: don't think I've seen it mentioned here, in a Nic Fit-thread.

[Echelon]

Archon easily is the MD topend threat, not a SB card.

[Bärmudas]

Hi guys,

I played lots of Nic Fit versions in the past (especially with Academy Rector). At the moment I’m testing the version below and it is quite successful. I call it “Rector Stax”, because I want to put my opponent into a prison/stax situation (Hidden Stockpile/Bitterblossom/Sorin, Lord of Innistrad with Contamination/Braids, Cabal Minion). The deck can also win with a more grindy token strategy or with Sandwurm Convergence on the battlefield (I don’t play Overwhelming Splendor, because Sanduwrm Convergence works also great with Braids or Contamination). Does anyone have experience with this kind of Nic Fit list? I would be happy about any suggestions!


Rector Stax

Creatures (10)
4x Academy Rector
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Braids, Cabal Minion

Enchantments (15)
2x Bitterblossom
3x Contamination
1x Intangible Virtue
4x Hidden Stockpile
1x Sandwurm Convergence
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Humility
1x Grave Pact

Instants (4)
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Fatal Push

Sorcerys (8)
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Lingering Souls

Artifacts (1)
1x Umezawa‘s Jitte

Planeswalker (1)
1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad

Lands (21)
2x Bayou
1x Cavern of Souls
3x Forest
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
2x Swamp
4x Windswept Heath
2x Verdant Catacombs
2x Marsh Flats
1x Scrubland
1x Karakas

Sideboard (15)
1x Carpet of Flowers
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1xKambal, Consul of Allocation
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Sugical Extraction
1x Curse of Death‘s Hold
1x Choke
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Spirit of the Labyrinth

[Echelon]

I'm unsure if it's awesome or too slow.

Do colour me intrigued though.

[Mr. Safety]

Archon easily is the MD topend threat, not a SB card.

Do I cut Sigarda then? Sigarda sideboard? Or just run both and cut another utility slot?

[Echelon]

I'd go for the latter. Cutting Sigarda would be fine too, I suppose. Just don't waste a SB slot on it.

Edit: @Barmudas Have you considered cutting out the middle man and just try to resolve Splendor..? It basically solves everything.

[Mr. Safety]

I'd go for the latter. Cutting Sigarda would be fine too, I suppose. Just don't waste a SB slot on it.

Gotcha. Card is nuts isn't it? I haven't played with it yet, but man, seems badass.

Here is where I would land then:

4x Explorer
1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Rhino
1x Meren
1x Witness
1x Scooze
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Runic Armasaur
1x Doran
1x Sigarda
1x Archon

4x GSZ
4x Therapy
3x Path
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Deed
2x Library
1x Painful Truths
1x Liliana, Last Hope
1x Nissa, VF
2x Crop Rotation

4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
1x Marsh Flats
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
3x Forest
2x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Phyrexian Tower

Sideboard

3x Duress
2x Surgical
2x Canonist
1x Teeg
1x Karakas
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Rec Sage
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Vindicate
2x Lost Legacy

I cut the vindicate maindeck for Armasaur, siding it for PW's and problematic lands. If Armasaur doesn't pull his weight I'll make the swap back. I also cut a Siege Rhino for the Archon. I'm fairly sure it will be just fine, but not playing 3 rhinos seems so wrong, lol.

[Valkyrie]

Hi Mr. Safety,

just a few points:

12 times fetching seems to much for me, especially without Tireless Tracker and Titania.

Playing Crop Rotation means playing a toolbox. Your toolbox consists of Phyrexian Tower.
So swap Mire and Foothills for Karakas and Bojuka. Especially Bojuka is a nice kick in the ass for bad MU's, like Reanimator.

In my opinion, you should play at least 22-23 lands, with a cc6 finisher in your list.

Greetings

Mike

[Echelon]

He runs 10 fetch, not 12. 10 is fine. But yeah, I'd run at least 1 Tracker (probably instead of Doran, still).

[Valkyrie]

You're right! But I would still miss the lands-toolbox.
If he want to stay with that manabase, cut the 2 Club Rotation for one land and one Tracker. :cool:

[Mr. Safety]

-3 Deathrite Shaman
+2 Crop Rotation
+1 Birds of Paradise

This is the thinking behind those numbers. Phyrexian Tower is very important, powerful enough to warrant Crop Rotation to get additional functional copies of it. Karakas and Bojuka Bog are not, in my metagame, maindeck cards ATM. If S&t/Reanimator get popular I will maindeck them. Currently I have 1 reanimator player, that sometimes plays Nic Fit ironically, and no S&T players ATM. Depths has dropped off the radar screen as well, so Karakas isn't really needed in the main. We only have one regular storm player, which doesn't justify maindeck Bog.

[Matsu]

Hi guys,

I played lots of Nic Fit versions in the past (especially with Academy Rector). At the moment I’m testing the version below and it is quite successful. I call it “Rector Stax”, because I want to put my opponent into a prison/stax situation (Hidden Stockpile/Bitterblossom/Sorin, Lord of Innistrad with Contamination/Braids, Cabal Minion). The deck can also win with a more grindy token strategy or with Sandwurm Convergence on the battlefield (I don’t play Overwhelming Splendor, because Sanduwrm Convergence works also great with Braids or Contamination). Does anyone have experience with this kind of Nic Fit list? I would be happy about any suggestions!


Rector Stax

Creatures (10)
4x Academy Rector
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Braids, Cabal Minion

Enchantments (15)
2x Bitterblossom
3x Contamination
1x Intangible Virtue
4x Hidden Stockpile
1x Sandwurm Convergence
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Humility
1x Grave Pact

Instants (4)
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Fatal Push

Sorcerys (8)
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Lingering Souls

Artifacts (1)
1x Umezawa‘s Jitte

Planeswalker (1)
1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad

Lands (21)
2x Bayou
1x Cavern of Souls
3x Forest
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
2x Swamp
4x Windswept Heath
2x Verdant Catacombs
2x Marsh Flats
1x Scrubland
1x Karakas

Sideboard (15)
1x Carpet of Flowers
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1xKambal, Consul of Allocation
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Sugical Extraction
1x Curse of Death‘s Hold
1x Choke
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Spirit of the Labyrinth

Hi Barmudas,

I think you have to adjust a couple of things in your deck.

First of all, you have a huge amount of black (50%) and white (33%) mana distribution with a mana base focused on equal mana distribution between 3 colors. I suggest an adjustment.

Second, NicFit tend to maximize the interaction between Explorer and Therapy. You do not play GSZ, Pod or Living wish to benefit from the mana acceleration of both cards. So if you will remove both explorer and therapy you will not feel any difference. If you do not accelerate you will probably quickly die on turn 5 from delver hits trying to cast Braids.

Third, if you want to play stax please have a look at the Stax mono Brown forum. In short you tax your opponent fast! turn one Tangle wire/Challice of the Void/TriBall or turn two Smokestack followed by crucible is the place you want to be. I suggest also to have a look at the Big Red/Dragon Stompy/White Stax forum.

Now lets look at the cards you have listed apart the mana base.
The biggest difficulty when you play Stax is you are taxing both your opponent and yourself. So you have to survive your own card. So:
Bitterblossom -> takes life you do not gain life except one Jitte
Contamination -> is hurting you more then your opponent and you have to sustain it.
Hidden stockpile -> might be clunky if you do not have the revolt trigger. The Scry effect needs some creatures.
Humility -> does not work with the Wurm Machine, rector, braids, explorer, intangible virtue
Deeds -> kills all you tokens

You do not have anything to fight counterspell decks. You need big mana against Daze/spell pierce and discard against FoW/Counterpell/Stifle. And the current meta is Stuffed with this type of decks.
You play exactly 4 cards to fight the metagame. Nope this will not work and your tax is too slow.

Fourth, a couple of suggestion:
If you want to stay in WBG
1. I will not leave my home without a playset of Moat in the deck
2. Both Thalia are great
3. 4xGhostly prison is a pain in the ass against any deck atm.
4. Overwhelming splendor works great with the Wurm Machine, Moat and the -1/-1 black curse I do not remember the name.
5. If you want to play Braids, life from the loam with some utility lands might be your friend and any persist/undying creature (Kitchen Finks/Strangleroot Geist)
6. Humility is amazing, but you need a different finisher a great example will be Helm of Obedience with Leyline or RiP. You can check this forum for some suggestion.
7. You really need to accelerate your mana base. Maximize Explorer trigger, STE, DA even Ancient tomb/ dark ritual might work.
8. Kismet is a pain in the ass if you stick it early.

If you want to try BGR
1. Blood Moon is better then Contamination.
2. Destructive Flow turn 2 is amazing.
3. RB has Angrath a great PW for this type of deck.
4. You have access to Land Destruction thanks to R and Discard thanks to black. Maybe even BBR.
5. Turn 4 Abyssal Persecutor kicks asses, works great with braids and any sort of sacrifice effect.

Any good PW might be good as a finisher because most of the time they are not affected by the stax effect.

I hope this will help and Good Luck

Edit: Grave pact does not work with tokens.

[Bärmudas]

Thanks for all your suggestions, Matsu! Deed, Humility, Gravepact, Intangible Virtue (its working with Humility depends on timestamps) and O-Ring are part of the toolbox. So I take them with rector when I really need one these cards. Humility won me a lot of matches this way. Maybe I will test some of your WBG suggestions ;).


Edit: Grave pact does not work with tokens.

Tokens do go to the graveyard...They just disappear after doing so. So Gravepact works with it.

[Ralf]

Hello,

I think BUG Fit control has legs again.

Here is the version I'm testing at the moment:

1 Forest
1 Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
4 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Countersquall
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Empty the Pits
1 To the Slaughter
1 Soul Spike

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Painful Truths
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse

4 Baleful Strix
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Death's Shadow
1 Snapcaster Mage

SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 1 Reanimate
SB: 1 Fatal Push
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Innocent Blood

Some slots might be adjusted along the way but this is a true control deck !

Enjoy

[Vervandi]

Hello,

I think BUG Fit control has legs again.



Enjoy

I'm going to play BUG Nic Fit tonight. My list is heavier on threats:

2 Abrupt Decay
3 Baleful Strix
2 Bayou
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
2 Forest
1 Garruk Relentless
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Island
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
1 Nissa, Steward of Elements
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Swamp
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Thragtusk
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Veteran Explorer

1 Dread of Night
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Notion Thief
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Spell Pierce
1 To the Slaughter
1 Extirpate

[Bärmudas]

After I played some more games with my list, I am still successful. Let me quickly explain why I do what I do.


Second, NicFit tend to maximize the interaction between Explorer and Therapy.

I got lots of sac outlets for my Explorer: Therapy, Contamination, Hidden Stockpile, Urzas Tower, Braids.
There are lots of creatures I can sac for my Therapies: Creatures I benefit from (Explorer, Academy Rector) and tokenmakers (Lingering Souls, Bitterblossom, Hidden Stockpile, Sorin, Sandwurm Convergence).
So on the one hand it’s easy for me to cast Therapy twice and pick the biggest problems out of my opponents’ hand, on the other hand it’s really easy to sac my Explorer to benefit from his ability. If I don’t have this guy, I can go the grindy way with lots of tokens. Especially Delver decks have huge problems with stuff like Lingering Souls or Bitterblossom.
I play Explorer in this deck, because it gives me the possibility to ramp out Academy Rector (this card is much better since the banning of DRS) and get either a lock piece (Contamination + Hidden Stockpile/Bitterblossom) or just a great win condition (Sandwurm Convergence) or a solution for problematic situations (Humility, O-Ring, Deed, Grave Pact, Intangible Virtue).


1. Blood Moon is better then Contamination.

Contamination is better for me than Blood Moon, because it’s an auto win (it hits even standard lands!) against a lot of decks: Mono black mana can’t destroy enchantments, but I am still able to play Lingering Souls from the grave or wait for Bitterblossom or Jitte or sac Contamination in my upkeep to play a Rector and sac it immediately for something big.

Matsu got a point with Braids. In some situations the card is just dead, but sometimes it’s really great. Especially the combination of Braids and Explorer as a sac outlet is sometimes bad against decks that play standard lands.


@Barmudas Have you considered cutting out the middle man and just try to resolve Splendor..? It basically solves*everything.

@ Echelon: What do you mean with “middle man”? Is it Sorin?

I am looking forward for further suggestions! :)

[Echelon]

With middle man I mean the entire staxx construction. Why bother with small bits and pieces when you can just aim to sac Academy Rector and immediately lock out the game..?

I don't aim to shoot down your build, but why spend a lot of cards on something that can be achieved with just the one..? It just seems so much more efficient.

[Bärmudas]

Yes you are right, I playtest Splendor! Thanks :)!

[Memories of the Time]

With middle man I mean the entire staxx construction. Why bother with small bits and pieces when you can just aim to sac Academy Rector and immediately lock out the game..?

I don't aim to shoot down your build, but why spend a lot of cards on something that can be achieved with just the one..? It just seems so much more efficient.

That's the entire point that i can't understand about many Rector builds.
I've played rector fit for the last year, and i've lost very, very, very few games after have resolved a rector trigger. All you need in a rector fit is
-A good manabase
-A good engine to filter between cards (in my last builds i was trying a 4c shell just for brainstorm and ponder, because a big chunk of lost games were just because screw/flood)
-Good response against fast combo deck (your only true bad mu).

[Echelon]

I still run the Evo Leap engine :laugh:

[Bärmudas]

I also played the evo engine and it was very nice and successful, but sometimes I see cards like Contamination or Hidden Stockpile and want to try something new ;).

[Valkyrie]

Hi Folks,

after a short excursion to the Jund fit, the arena rector hooked me again to play Junk Fit.
This is what i'am currently testing:

Main
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Crop Rotation
2 Eldritch Evolution
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Path to Exile
2 Tendrils of Despair

Creatures
4 Arena Rector
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Viridian Emissary

Lands
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Forest
1 Karakas
2 Marsh Flats
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Windswept Heath

Artifacts + PW's
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Scroll Rack
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Sideboard
SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
SB: 2 Lost Legacy
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Trinisphere


Seems pretty fair, it is not only an absolutly Rector focused list. Beatdown with creatures is also possible thanks to Atraxa and Sigarda.
Maybe some choices needs an explanation, cause there are some problems to solve.

You need to find a Rector - draw one, Scroll Rack, Eldritch Evolution

You need to resolve a Rector - Tendrils of Despair, Eldritch Evolution, Cabal Therapy, Phyrexian Tower = 9 cards in total
Tendrils can hurt the opponent pretty much. Arena Rector into Eldritch Evolution into Atraxa into Nicol Bolas PW/Ugin can close out the game pretty fast.

You want to put back cards that have been drawn, like PW's - Scroll Rack
Maybe a slightly more blue splash for brainstorm or ponder might be meaningful. So far, the scroll rack is doing quite well.

You need something preboard against combo like Reanimator, Dark Depths, Dredge.... - Crop Rotation
Crop Rotation never is a dead card, I never want to play without it.

Maybe I have to put the focus even more on the Rector, but then I could also play nyx right now.
So the deck may play a bit like a Swiss pocket knife.

I would really appreciate suggestions and advice.

Thx in advance

Mike

[Tristin183]

Hey there, I'm a lurker.

Looking to get into this deck. I'm short bayou, but I have the other dials. Thinking of a bant build for rector splashing black for discard and removal. With tropical island, underground sea, Savannah, Scrubland, and tundra. Do you think something could be viable? Obviously, turn 1 bayou seems to be the strongest, but I don't have that option currently. I'm going to test it out but feel I'll be missing that combination.

[Echelon]

Turn 1 basic usually is the best play... You don't want to open yourself up to a blowout by a well timed Wasteland.

[Gruby]

Hi. I like to put 1of Diabolic Intent for "nongren-creature" tutor ;) It also blows your Vet or Rector.

Instead of Scroll Rack, You may try Sylvan Library


EDIT:
BTW does anyone of You think about "land oriented" nic fit? Especially after seeing Lord Windgrace. Making whole thing about Destructive Flow and rely more on basics and Ramunap Excavator??

[Captain Hammer]

I play a fairly classic creature based Nic Fit build and Ive been very impressed with vivien reid here.

I actually like it more than Nissa Vital Force now. Vivian Reid does everything I need it to and has been very solid in the deck.

Does anyone here play it?

[Echelon]

Vivian can't defend herself from incoming trafic like Nissa can

[Ronald Deuce]

Anyone been going totally planeswalker-less? I like doing insane things, and planeswalkers don't really do that for, like, 15 turns.

I've considered running an OG Garruk, but I really don't like it or any of the others at this stage.

[Mr. Safety]

Hi Folks,

This is what i'am currently testing:

2 Tendrils of Despair
1 Viridian Emissary

How good are these cards? I have often wondered if the 2 power on Emissary is better than STE. Tendrils of Despair I haven't seen in ages. I tried it in The Gate as additional discard that also works with Persecutor, but I never thought to use it in Nic Fit. Very curious about how well it has performed for you.

[Echelon]

@Ronald Deuce: My fair Junk lists typically are planeswalkerless. I like my stuff to br GSZ'able

[Valkyrie]

@Gruby:

Diabolic Intent might be a solution, maybe I get one squeezed into.
But library is not a substitute for scroll rack. I want to put back cards allready drawn, like the bolas PW's, cause i can not cast them as normal.
With Fetch Lands and scroll rack you can dig really deep.

@Mr. Safety:

Virdian works better for me for two reasons
- you don't have to sacrifice them to get the land, he just has to die. I need good targets for the sacrifice spells, and they must not die in vain. STE with Tendrils, Cabal or Eldritch doesnt work.
- as a two mana creature it fits perfect for Eldricht Evolution to cheat a Rector onto the table.

Tendrils of Despair is underrated in my opinion. If it is not countered it generates no card disadvantage and it is a safe way to kick you creatures into the graveyard with a nice bonus.
Loosing two cards can hurt a lot and it only costs one black. Preboard without thoughtseize you need an additional unfair component. Innocent blood, for example, is often a one-sided effect.
I had already considered Vicious Offering, though instant speed, but two mana. If there is not a creature on the other side, useless.
Maybe it needs a little more testing, but at the moment for me it works fine.

[Mr. Safety]

@Ronald Deuce: My fair Junk lists typically are planeswalkerless. I like my stuff to br GSZ'able

Pw's are salt and pepper to me; I sprinkle them in if I can find room. My experience is that Liliana, the Last Hope is fantastic in this deck, really surprised more people don't include her. My only other PW is Nissa, Vital Force, which does a ton of good work as well.

@Valkyrie: I'll probably cut my 1x Birds of Paradise for 1x Viridian Emissary, I think it's better in almost every regard. Tendrils of Despair I might be able to squeeze in x1-2.

[Gruby]

Hey.. is anybody still siding Carpet of Flowers? Yep it will be a metacall for U decks (miracles and combos?) but... isn't choke better?


@Gruby:
Diabolic Intent might be a solution, maybe I get one squeezed into.
But library is not a substitute for scroll rack. I want to put back cards allready drawn, like the bolas PW's, cause i can not cast them as normal.
With Fetch Lands and scroll rack you can dig really deep.



It's Usually useless to play more than 1. I played it in JUND list with 2 Lilly otV, 4 PFire and 2 Stormbreaths and SB karakass for big guys ;)

[Brael]

Hey.. is anybody still siding Carpet of Flowers? Yep it will be a metacall for U decks (miracles and combos?) but... isn't choke better?




It's Usually useless to play more than 1. I played it in JUND list with 2 Lilly otV, 4 PFire and 2 Stormbreaths and SB karakass for big guys ;)

Carpet is better for our gameplan which is to generate mana. The matches where you want Carpet you mostly don't want Vet.

[square_two]

Carpet is better for our gameplan which is to generate mana. The matches where you want Carpet you mostly don't want Vet.

Agreed that carpet is usually better. I do like carpet sometimes against tempo decks - oft times threshold/delver just dies on the spot if you can just resolve one high-cmc spell. Thragtusk/walker/etc, and sticking an early carpet can enable you to do that. Choke can be a huge blowout against more longer-game stoneblade and miracles lists but does nothing against the tempo stuff. Also I found that smarter blue players for those longer matchups can prepare themselves well against choke. And yea, if you want to remove vets against miracles then you had better have something to add in to cover the loss of mana...missing a couple of turns of land drops against miracles and you might as well just roll over and let them control the game from then on.

[SMRiggin]

Good Evening!
I have been working on the Rector Fit list since Arena Rector was spoiled. I've played in a few tournaments - I won an 18 person one last night - I have tested the wishless and wish version, and I'm pretty happy with where I am right now. This is what I've been working on:

Creatures: 10
3 Arena Rector
3 Academy Rector
4 Veteran Explorer
Enchantments: 10
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Overwhelming Splendor
1 Curse of Death's Hold
3 Oath of Nissa
2 Porphery Nodes
1 Leyline of Sanctity
Planeswalker: 5
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharoh
1 Ugin, The Spirit Dragon
1 Karn Liberated
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Instant/Sorcery: 12
2 Path to Exile
4 Living Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Abrupt Decay
Lands: 23
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Phyrexian Tower
4 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

60 Cards

Sideboard: 15
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Path to Exile
1 Bitterblossom
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Rule of Law
1 Academy Rector
1 Arena Rector
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls

I have some work on the wishboard still. I'm not exactly happy with it - I want an Eidolon of Rhetoric in there and possibly a Containment Priest as wish targets.

I'd love some feedback. Some of the choices are odd - Porphery Nodes has been absolutely outstanding against the abundance of Stoneforge and Delver decks I've seen lately. They provide sac outlets for my creatures as well as stick around for the opponents as well. I even used it as my show and tell card last night and got a Grizzle.

Thanks,
Shawn

[Matsu]

Good Evening!
I have been working on the Rector Fit list since Arena Rector was spoiled. I've played in a few tournaments - I won an 18 person one last night - I have tested the wishless and wish version, and I'm pretty happy with where I am right now. This is what I've been working on:

...

Thanks,
Shawn

Who you were playing with?

I still think in this form the deck is too slow and has nothing to do until you have 4 lands when you can jam some A.Rectors.

But these are my suggestions
Remove
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Karn Liberated
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Forest
1 Leyline of Sanctity
Add
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Cruel Reality/Wurm Machine
3 Collective brutality
1 Thespian stage
1 Crop rotation as 61st card or remove the second AB

Sideboard
Remove
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Path to Exile
1 Bitterblossom
Add
1 Dark Depths
1 Kambal
1 Containment Priest
1 Thragtusk/Kitchen Finks

[SMRiggin]

Who you were playing with?

I still think in this form the deck is too slow and has nothing to do until you have 4 lands when you can jam some A.Rectors.

But these are my suggestions
Remove
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Karn Liberated
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Forest
1 Leyline of Sanctity
Add
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Cruel Reality/Wurm Machine
3 Collective brutality
1 Thespian stage
1 Crop rotation as 61st card or remove the second AB

Sideboard
Remove
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Path to Exile
1 Bitterblossom
Add
1 Dark Depths
1 Kambal
1 Containment Priest
1 Thragtusk/Kitchen Finks

Thank you for the feedback. I don’t feel like the list is slow at all. Knowing which hands to Mull is important. For the record, this is what I faced Tuesday night
ANT 2-1
Depths 2-1
Omnitell 0-2
Miracles 1-0-1 (I probably should have lost this one, but the pilot was an idiot)
Steel Stompy 2-0

I have found that knowing what best to name with Cabal Therapy has been a huge benefit. Knowing the tier decks and what could hurt you the most is easily one of the most important skills in the deck.

I like some of your suggestions. Kambal is a great idea. I’ve found Karn lackluster, so that will probably become Nissa VF. Sandwurm Convergence is also probably going to make an appearance in the main somewhere, if nothing else as a hedge vs Show and Tell.

But some of the choices to cut have me puzzled. Cavern and tower in the sideboard have been godsends. Elspeth is next to impossible to get off the board in many matchups. In fact, Elspeth is usually my first fetch vs Eldrazi.

Shawn.

[dakkenmore]

i like the list, I personally do not play the deck, but since arena rector came out I've had tough matches against it, particularly when they resolve Eureka. I think a tighter PW and enchantment package would benefit you, I don't think MD leyline of sanctity is necessary, nor are the porphyry nodes. cruel reality, sandworm convergence, curse of death's hold, overwhelming splendor, and dovescape are all insanely good choice. as for PW, elspeth seems unnecessary, might as well have 2 ugins.

also does silent graveyard protect rector?

[Echelon]

Elspeth answers some stuff Ugin can't deal wirh... That's why you run both.

[SMRiggin]

Elspeth answers some stuff Ugin can't deal wirh... That's why you run both.

100% this. Ugin is not great against steel Stompy or eldrazi. I don’t think I’ve lost a game where I get Elspeth out vs Eldrazi.

I think I will pull the leyline of sanctity when I am away from my home store. I have a heavy burn meta locally, that’s why it sees play in the main.

Has anyone had issues with Dovescape preventing you from casting things you need to? I haven’t tested that in the build yet. It seems like it could potentially lock you out if you don’t have another rector. I see the benefits vs decks like miracles, storm, etc.

Shawn

[square_two]

100% this. Ugin is not great against steel Stompy or eldrazi. I don’t think I’ve lost a game where I get Elspeth out vs Eldrazi.

I think I will pull the leyline of sanctity when I am away from my home store. I have a heavy burn meta locally, that’s why it sees play in the main.

Has anyone had issues with Dovescape preventing you from casting things you need to? I haven’t tested that in the build yet. It seems like it could potentially lock you out if you don’t have another rector. I see the benefits vs decks like miracles, storm, etc.

Shawn

I think I lost only 1 game where I resolved Dovescape, and it was at a point where nothing else would really have won.

It can really depend on your list though. Lingering Souls creates 6 birds under a Dovescape, GSZ creates X+1 bird, etc. Typically you are incredibly favored and it makes any later drawn Rectors uncounterable. Sac outlets don't require that the spell be resolved, so Therapy/Phyrexian Tower/Tendrils of Despair all continue to work to kill them off. Think about it this way - your opponent's Brainstorm and other 1/2cmc chaff become essentially 1 card for 1-2 birds. Your cards are typically 1 card for 2-6 birds. That race is easy to win. It's really humorous to watch a storm deck try to keep up. Even the scary "what about Force of Will" is 2 cards for 5 birds which we can compete with.

Stoneforge Mystic is a particular problem, but that's the deck that you grab Splendor first.

Edit: Abrupt Decay also still works under Dovescape, AND it makes 2 birds :)

[Alexeezay]

I'm currently testing and trying to tune 6/8Rector Nic Fit online (the version with both Rectors, Eureka and Living Wish).

Some things I noticed after my first two leagues:

- I agree we need Elspeth for Eldrazi (which is very popular now) because Ugin doesn't do too much there and 1 is enough.
- problems vs Miracles - maybe 1-2 maindeck Cavern of Souls and 2-3 Carpet of Flowers sb? Or just more discard instead? I got 4 Cabal 2 TSeize 2 Collective Brutality. Thoughts on this matchup? Miracles is amongst the foremost popular decks now.
- Eureka is insane in the doubleRector build.
- Cruel Reality was meh, even though it took out a Karn vs EldraziPost.
- Collective Brutality never felt like it's doing enough for the cost. Sure, you can Duress someone or kill your own creature with it, but I wasn't lacking a sac-outlet most of the time and killing opponent's creatures wasn't needed (for the cost, I mean. And it getting countered isn't the best sometimes). I will probably test out Tendrils of Despair, Drop of Honey, Diabolic Intent or even more CC1 discard here.
- I wish we could fit in Brainstorm somehow - is it too crazy to include 1 Island 1 Tropical Island for 4 Brainstorm? With a Taiga/Mountain we could hardcast Nicol Bolas, LOL. Just throwing the insanity out there.
- Omniscience/Emrakul feel unnecessary and will get cut for me - Omni relies on Wish and having it alone/topdecking it is super bad compared to the other finishers.
- Living Wish felt a little better than GSZ/more maindeck Rectors, just because fetching Phyrexian Tower can be crucial. That's it. Have yet to see if SB Karakas and/or Tabernacle are worth it.

Anybody else testing the Eureka/8Rector build?

[SMRiggin]

I'm currently testing and trying to tune 6/8Rector Nic Fit online (the version with both Rectors, Eureka and Living Wish).

Some things I noticed after my first two leagues:

- I agree we need Elspeth for Eldrazi (which is very popular now) because Ugin doesn't do too much there and 1 is enough.
- problems vs Miracles - maybe 1-2 maindeck Cavern of Souls and 2-3 Carpet of Flowers sb? Or just more discard instead? I got 4 Cabal 2 TSeize 2 Collective Brutality. Thoughts on this matchup? Miracles is amongst the foremost popular decks now.
- Eureka is insane in the doubleRector build.
- Cruel Reality was meh, even though it took out a Karn vs EldraziPost.
- Collective Brutality never felt like it's doing enough for the cost. Sure, you can Duress someone or kill your own creature with it, but I wasn't lacking a sac-outlet most of the time and killing opponent's creatures wasn't needed (for the cost, I mean. And it getting countered isn't the best sometimes). I will probably test out Tendrils of Despair, Drop of Honey, Diabolic Intent or even more CC1 discard here.
- I wish we could fit in Brainstorm somehow - is it too crazy to include 1 Island 1 Tropical Island for 4 Brainstorm? With a Taiga/Mountain we could hardcast Nicol Bolas, LOL. Just throwing the insanity out there.
- Omniscience/Emrakul feel unnecessary and will get cut for me - Omni relies on Wish and having it alone/topdecking it is super bad compared to the other finishers.
- Living Wish felt a little better than GSZ/more maindeck Rectors, just because fetching Phyrexian Tower can be crucial. That's it. Have yet to see if SB Karakas and/or Tabernacle are worth it.

Anybody else testing the Eureka/8Rector build?

For miracles, I run Cavern in the wish board just for this matchup. Don't cast until you have the sac outlet ready.

I didn't like brutality when I tested it. It just never seemed like it did enough.

I solved the casting Nicol Bolas problem with Oath of Nissa. It also gives me some filtering early and helps me find the first Rector or a land if I need it.

I can't afford Drop of Honey, lol. So I run the Porphery Nodes instead. 2-of. They have not disappointed yet.

Shawn

[dakkenmore]

hey does anyone know if silent gravestone protects rector in the GY and still allows the trigger? I feel it could be a good SB choice against surgical extraction and also work against reanimator spells

[Echelon]

It works like you think it does. Do note that Exhume still works normally under a Silent Gravestone.

[Matsu]

Hi guys,

Just a quick battle report.

First the list:

Creature
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Academy Rector
4 Veteran Explorer

Instant
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay

Sorcery
1 Vindicate
3 Collective Brutality
3 Lingering Souls
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

Enchantment
1 Dovescape
1 Overwhelming Splendor
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Sandwurm Convergence
1 Cruel Reality
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Sylvan Library
3 Evolutionary Leap

Planeswalker
1 Garruk Relentless

Land
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Phyrexian Tower
2 Swamp
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Forest

Sideboard:
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Fleshbag marauder
1 Kambal
2 Lost Legacy
2 Choke
2 Pithing Needle
1 Dragon's claw
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Pulse of Murasa

Yeah the Sideboard is a pile of shit.

I had a long brake and did not play mtg for 4 month (tournament play) just some testing from time to time.
So i was playing Win a Tundra at an LGS.
We had 17 people.
I expected a lot of Burns and S&S.

The meta was:
3 S&S
3 D&T
2 Goblins
1 Esper Blade
1 Reanimator
1 Burn
1 Infect
1 4c pile
2 Jund
1 High tide
1 Me

I still have a little jet lag so i wanted more to troll people then play mtg.

Battle 1 - 4C pile
Game 1
I slowly build my board. He happily trade his Strix to my Explorer. He finally cast Jace and try to finish me, i lock him with Splendor, Death's hold, Cruel reality. We lost some time because, he had to read all the cards I play.
Game 2
He goes thoughseize into Tourach into Tourach.
Game 3
I cast brutality turn 2 and see Fow, BS, Bolt, Bolt, Tourach, Tourach, Tarn, he has badlands in play. I take the BS. I manage to cast E.Leap turn three. He throw another Tourach and bolt to me i top deck Academy rector on turn 5 after time.

Draw
0-0-1

Battle 2 - Goblins
Game 1
I reset the board with P.Deed at around 10 life and loop Academy Rector.
Game 2
Same as game one just faster thanks to Veteran explorer.

Win
1-0-1

Battle 3 - Goblins, a good friend
Game 1
He goes mountain ->lackey, i go forest -> explorer, He tarfire explorer i StP his lackey with the fresh plains. I reset the board with P.Deed and deploy rector into splendor. I have leap in play, but cannot draw any relevant card. It took him around 15 turns to bring me down to 3 life. I finally draw a creature loop with leap into Death's hold. He surrenders.
Game 2
I cast turn 2 E.leap. and loop explorer into rector.

Win
2-0-1

Battle 4 - D&T - he always has the nuts no matter what i do.
Game 1
I have a hand with double explorer and a forest, He has 3 StP so Dryad Arbor is not working. He kill me with Pro GB Knight.
Game 2
Mom into Thalia into Pro GB knight into phyrexian revoker ->GG

Loss
2-1-1

I finish sixth, open a Whiteling from a booster pack, so not bad.

Thoughts:
I did not cast any Therapy and Lingering souls during the whole tournament. Yeah I played just Nic without the Fit.
Always have a toxic deluge in your deck.
Ground Seal is a must with the amount of surgical extraction around.
The deck is cool to play, but sometimes you lose to bad beats and there is nothing to do about that.
Eternal witness might be useful to bring back those big enchantments. Maybe Nissa, vital force will be sufficient.

I think the deck needs more stax effect like Suppresion Field, Ghostly Prison, Windborn muse, silent arbiter, Curse of Exhaustion, Root Maze, etc, ... But the deck will shift more toward a white deck, this might be a solution and maybe improve the deck. I had a lot of situation when i wanted to slow down my opponent before locking him. This probably will also work with Arena rector.

I really like the Living Wish option to fetch some stax creature or lands.

What do you guys think about adding more stax effects?

[Echelon]

@Matsu You'll end up with a list kinda like Barmudas posted some weeks back. He himself concluded it wasn't worth it.

[SMRiggin]

Anyone else heading to Richmond for the GP Next weeekend?

Shawn

[Mr. Safety]

I have been testing Viridian Emissary as a GSZ target instead of Sakura-Tribe Elder, and it's definitely more valuable in combat. It works with Therapy/Tower nicely and is better than Vet when retrieved with Meren/Liliana tLH. Generally, I feel that Nic Fit lost too much in the DRS ban. It consistently does what it's designed to do, it's just not good enough, not in my opinion.

[Echelon]

Meren + STE is a loop... And STE is a surefire way of expanding your mana development rather than a conditional one. Another thing is that I might not want to waste my flashback on an Emissary, at least when I'm running a fair Rector list for instance.

[Mr. Safety]

In my games, while was looping STE and building mana, opponents were killing me. The difference between 1 power and 2 power is incredibly significant in my humble opinion, much more important than the flexibility of sacrificing STE for lands. If I raw-draw one or the other, I'd much rather have STE truthfully, because he is a guaranteed ramp. If I'm on a GSZ mana ramp plan, I will get Veteran Explorer probably 99/100 times. If I need to be able to block and kill an x/2 while still getting value then Emissary is better as a GSZ target. I won't argue with you, not when you have such extensive experience with this deck, but I think in my fair/aggressive list with Siege Rhinos that extra power is the right call. I do not have the inclination, nor the funds, to invest in either of the Rector builds. Having played against it at the local (Arena Rector), I wasn't really all that impressed with it, but I admit it's powerful.

If the danger in the cantrip cartel is too much 'air' in terms of just drawing into more cantrips, then the closest similarity in Nic Fit is too much 'air' in terms of just ramping into more mana.

[Echelon]

Academy is a lot more powrful than Arena, especially in the mirror :laugh:

Good luck dealing w/ Overwhelming Splendor :tongue:

[Brael]

In my games, while was looping STE and building mana, opponents were killing me. The difference between 1 power and 2 power is incredibly significant in my humble opinion, much more important than the flexibility of sacrificing STE for lands. If I raw-draw one or the other, I'd much rather have STE truthfully, because he is a guaranteed ramp. If I'm on a GSZ mana ramp plan, I will get Veteran Explorer probably 99/100 times. If I need to be able to block and kill an x/2 while still getting value then Emissary is better as a GSZ target. I won't argue with you, not when you have such extensive experience with this deck, but I think in my fair/aggressive list with Siege Rhinos that extra power is the right call. I do not have the inclination, nor the funds, to invest in either of the Rector builds. Having played against it at the local (Arena Rector), I wasn't really all that impressed with it, but I admit it's powerful.

If the danger in the cantrip cartel is too much 'air' in terms of just drawing into more cantrips, then the closest similarity in Nic Fit is too much 'air' in terms of just ramping into more mana.

If you want 2 power with mana development, why not Nissa?

STE with Meren is great because it's a guaranteed counter every turn. You need additional actions to loop Emissary with Meren, but that's assuming you need Meren in the first place.

Also, the x/2 in question is important. I've used Scryb Ranger to some success as my 7th mana dork and that blocks everyones favorite 3/2. I'm not sure that particular card is still good enough without DRS around, but it did work.

The other thing is, if you have no way to kill Emissary, you're not getting any mana ramp. STE is always land.

The issue with ramping into more mana is why I don't like the big cards like Rhino and why I think a card advantage focused approach is better. More mana means more cards, which means more things. It's the most reliable way to use extra mana, especially after having lost our two best mana sinks in DRS and SDT.

[Brael]

Been throwing around some ideas since the DRS ban, it hit my lists pretty hard but I think I've come up with something now. Basically, with the loss of DRS I lost both a mana source and a mana sink.

In flash I had been playing Scryb Ranger but in a non flash list I can just play Quirion Ranger. What this card does, is that when you're short on lands it lets you bounce and replay a land mitigating the effect of missing a land drop. It allows some interesting counterplay against say Hymn to Tourach by adding another card to your hand, and it lets you maximize Brainstorms by bouncing excess lands and shuffling them back in for new cards. It also has a great interaction with Dryad Arbor, the opening: T1 Land, GSZ for 0 getting Arbor, T2 Land, Quirion Ranger, tap Arbor, bounce land, untap Arbor, tap other land results in getting a creature on the battlefield and having 1GG to spend on T2 and 2GG to spend on T3.

The other mana source/sink I'm looking at is Sylvan Safekeeper. At first it may not seem like Safekeeper is a mana source, but Safekeeper provides an incentive for playing additional lands, so supporting it should naturally lead to having more land drops. This is in addition to it being an obvious mana sink by sacrificing lands to protect your board.

Here's my first pass at this list. It will likely change before I next get to play it in a tournament but I think there's something here:
Land 22
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog

Creatures 19
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Quirion Ranger
4 Dark Confidant
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Thragtusk

Spells 20
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Crop Rotation
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Exploration
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
1 Collective Brutality
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

[drekonja]

If playing safekeeper, I would play titania too, since it is quite a good combo together

[Brael]

If playing safekeeper, I would play titania too, since it is quite a good combo together

The option is Thragtusk vs Titania, I'm very conservative on higher CMC cards when playing Dark Confidant, sometimes I'll play a single 5, other times I'll play none. I went with the single Thragtusk here because it's not that bad to flip to Bob due to the lifegain, and it plays really well with Meren. Titania could be a sideboard option, but I generally don't like doubling up on 5's. Safekeeper is stronger with Titania but I don't think that's a necessary interaction to include. If it's not Thragtusk in that slot, I think I would rather have Chameleon Colossus.

[Brael]

I've played a league with the list now, like usual it's a very strong list against combo (probably the best anti combo shell) but the creatures just aren't big enough to dominate the board in midrange mirrors.

It's feeling like I have a too much mana and too little power currently. I try to keep bob lists to 75 mana pips or less, and this list is currently clocking in at 72, which in my experience suggests I'm going too small. The Safekeeper plan hasn't been a good one, with the creatures as small as they are you're just not protecting something powerful enough, and if cuts are made for some larger more resilient threats the protection won't be needed in the first place. It also feels like it's too big a mana sink, giving up lands early to do something like protect a dark confidant has a real cost in deck speed.

Also, there's currently too much mana. Either Quirion #2 or STE #1 needs cut. If STE goes, then Meren's slot likely changes as well. I have liked Quirion Rangers ability to smooth low mana opening hands, but I never want to GSZ for it, unlike DRS. It also has a nice interaction with the Dryad Arbor openers.

On the subject of Arbor, I have mixed feelings on the second Dryad Arbor. In the league I just played (13 games), the second Arbor prevented one mulligan but also resulted in 4 lost cards later in the games due to not having enough basics to fetch. Thinking about things in those terms, it's trading approximately 1/10 of an early game card for 1/2 of a late game card. I'm not sure which is more valuable at the moment.

I'm also having second thoughts on Deed right now. Normally I like a 1/1 MB split of Deed/Deluge as my top end removal spells because it gives me the ability to kill anything with the right draw. But, I included a Golgari Charm in this list and it's handling a lot of the smaller/go wide issues that Deed is there for, and it handles enchantments too, and does it faster. I think I might prefer making that slot a little leaner. I'm pretty interested in Cast Down, like Deed it misses the big combo creatures, so that particular weakness of the slot still remains, but it casts a pretty wide net hitting every fair target except for TNN.

So for swaps, I have 3 pips to work with plus cuts. And I also want to keep curve in mind. For sure I want Tireless Tracker #4.

I think that maxes me out on three drops, but I am willing to add additional fours. In particular I like the idea of creatures that are good against Angler and Strix. So what I'm considering is Vine Mare and Chameleon Colossus in place of the one open slot and Meren.


These changes would bring my list to the following:
Land 22
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog

Creatures 19
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Quirion Ranger
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Vine Mare
1 Thragtusk

Spells 20
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Crop Rotation
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Exploration
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
1 Collective Brutality
1 Cast Down
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

Sideboard 15
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Lost Legacy
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Marsh Casaulties
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Massacre

[malfie13]

I played bug nic fit before the ban in the shaman to mix success, and now wish to revisit my list. It was powerful before now is harder to interrupt. I thought I'd share with my head is at currently, so it can be used as a dart board for people who want to play Blue in their nic fit list. Thoughts and comments are welcome.

Deck: Legacy BUG Nic Fit 8-20-18.dec

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:17
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Deranged Hermit
2 Mulldrifter
1 Thragtusk
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Craterhoof Behemoth

Sorceries:13
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
1 Diabolic Intent

Instants:3
3 Brainstorm

Enchantments:6
1 Evolutionary Leap
1 Sylvan Library
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare

Others:2
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Nissa, Vital Force

Lands:19
2 Bayou
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea

Sideboard:15
1 Gilded Drake
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Shriekmaw
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Flusterstorm
1 Mindbreak Trap
3 Force of Will
1 Submerge
1 Dread of Night

[Brael]

Took the new list through two leagues and 4-1'ed both, one had a chance at a 5-0 but things didn't break my way.

After shaking off the rust from having not played Legacy in months I mostly got back into the swing of things here (I'm still pretty bad at MTGO though).

At this point I'm pretty comfortable in saying Quirion Ranger is the real deal. All of my Quirion Ranger starts have been very explosive, and it definitely wants the 2 Dryad Arbors. Here's an example sequence I had against Sneak and Show earlier today.

I'm on the draw, we're in game 3.
Turn 1:
Opponent - Volcanic, pass
Me - Misty Rainforest, pass
Opponent - EOT Brainstorm

Turn 2:
Opponent - Island, Preordain, Ponder, Lotus Petal, pass
Me - EOT Fetch, get Dryad Arbor
Me - Bayou, Therapy for Force of Will, tap Arbor, play Quirion Ranger, activate Ranger, untap Arbor bounce Bayou, float green from Arbor, flashback Therapy sacrificing Arbor for some combo piece I knew about, use green for Carpet of Flowers. Goto second main use Carpet for BB, cast Dark Confidant

That may not seem like much, but from having cast nothing on T1 I was able to leverage it into 5 mana spent on T2, with 3 permanents in play (Carpet, Quirion, Bob), with a double Therapy used, and I didn't even have to give my opponent any Explorer acceleration.

I think Quirion Ranger is a very worthy replacement in any DRS slot provided you're willing to make the Arbor commitment. I really like the 2x Arbor here because I've been using them for a lot of tricks. Bouncing on a block, acceleration, GSZ targets, fewer mulligans, and surprisingly, with Quirion Ranger I'm frequently using them on T2 or T3 as Therapy fodder.

In the discord I posted a screenshot mid match against D&T, it was game 1. I kept a 1 lander on the play and went:
Turn 1:
Land, GSZ for Arbor

Turn 2:
Quirion Ranger, float mana, activate Ranger, untap, play land, float mana, Crop Rotation land for Phyrexian Tower, use other mana for Veteran Explorer, Tower saccing Explorer, get 2 lands, tap lands, use 3 mana on Tireless Tracker, last mana on another Veteran Explorer.

On turn 3 I then got to tower the other Explorer, make 2 clues, make another 2 clues from a fetchland, and draw 4 cards completely refilling my hand after having had a 7(!) mana turn 2.

These types of occurances are happening often enough that I think Quirion Ranger is a worthy manadork. It's good in any opening hand, and can pair with Dryad Arbors later in the game to be a very effective blocker (and Tireless Tracker enabler).

Similarly, Exploration hasn't made many appearances for me, but I have liked it when it's shown up. I think Quirion Ranger is the better 1 mana accelerant, but I like the way combinations of cards can stack.

With the recent changes, I feel that the mana/threat balance is a little better. But, midrange has been difficult, so I wouldn't mind being able to beef things up in the sideboard, I want blocks to be difficult. I'm interested in Rancor, Rhonas, or Nylea as options.

[Rancor85]

Anyone else heading to Richmond for the GP Next weeekend?

Shawn

Hey Shawn!

I will be in Richmond and am new to nicfit. I was on turbo depths for a while but don't think it's well positioned post ban. I found an interesting list and honestly haven't had much time to test. Just going to roll with it. Here it is...


Main Deck

2* Bayou

3* Forest

1*dryad arbor

1* Marsh Flats

1* Phyrexian Tower

2* Plains

2* Savannah

1* Scrubland

1*Stirring Wildwood

2* Swamp

4* Verdant Catacombs

1*Volrath's Stronghold

2* Windswept Heath

23 Lands

2* Baneslayer Angel

2* Carnage Tyrant

1*Eternal Witness

1* Meren of Clan Nel Toth

1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer

4* Siege Rhino

1* Sigarda, Host of Herons

4* Veteran Explorer

16 Creatures

3* Abrupt Decay

1* Altar's Reap

3* Sword to Plowshares

4* Cabal Therapy

1* Diabolic Intent

2* Green Sun's Zenith

2* Vindicate

3* Pernicious Deed

1* Ob Nixilis Reignited

1* Vraska, Relic Seeker

21 Spells

60 Mainboard Cards

Sideboard

2* Containment Priest

1* Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

1* Reclamation Sage

1* Regal Behemoth

1* Scavenging Ooze

2* Surgical Extraction

3* Thoughtseize

2* Relic of Progenitus

2* Sorcerous Spyglass


Let me know if you wanna meet up at the tourney.

-Cory

[Mr. Safety]

Took the new list through two leagues and 4-1'ed both, one had a chance at a 5-0 but things didn't break my way.

After shaking off the rust from having not played Legacy in months I mostly got back into the swing of things here (I'm still pretty bad at MTGO though).

At this point I'm pretty comfortable in saying Quirion Ranger is the real deal. All of my Quirion Ranger starts have been very explosive, and it definitely wants the 2 Dryad Arbors. Here's an example sequence I had against Sneak and Show earlier today.

I'm on the draw, we're in game 3.
Turn 1:
Opponent - Volcanic, pass
Me - Misty Rainforest, pass
Opponent - EOT Brainstorm

Turn 2:
Opponent - Island, Preordain, Ponder, Lotus Petal, pass
Me - EOT Fetch, get Dryad Arbor
Me - Bayou, Therapy for Force of Will, tap Arbor, play Quirion Ranger, activate Ranger, untap Arbor bounce Bayou, float green from Arbor, flashback Therapy sacrificing Arbor for some combo piece I knew about, use green for Carpet of Flowers. Goto second main use Carpet for BB, cast Dark Confidant

That may not seem like much, but from having cast nothing on T1 I was able to leverage it into 5 mana spent on T2, with 3 permanents in play (Carpet, Quirion, Bob), with a double Therapy used, and I didn't even have to give my opponent any Explorer acceleration.

I think Quirion Ranger is a very worthy replacement in any DRS slot provided you're willing to make the Arbor commitment. I really like the 2x Arbor here because I've been using them for a lot of tricks. Bouncing on a block, acceleration, GSZ targets, fewer mulligans, and surprisingly, with Quirion Ranger I'm frequently using them on T2 or T3 as Therapy fodder.

In the discord I posted a screenshot mid match against D&T, it was game 1. I kept a 1 lander on the play and went:
Turn 1:
Land, GSZ for Arbor

Turn 2:
Quirion Ranger, float mana, activate Ranger, untap, play land, float mana, Crop Rotation land for Phyrexian Tower, use other mana for Veteran Explorer, Tower saccing Explorer, get 2 lands, tap lands, use 3 mana on Tireless Tracker, last mana on another Veteran Explorer.

On turn 3 I then got to tower the other Explorer, make 2 clues, make another 2 clues from a fetchland, and draw 4 cards completely refilling my hand after having had a 7(!) mana turn 2.

These types of occurances are happening often enough that I think Quirion Ranger is a worthy manadork. It's good in any opening hand, and can pair with Dryad Arbors later in the game to be a very effective blocker (and Tireless Tracker enabler).

Similarly, Exploration hasn't made many appearances for me, but I have liked it when it's shown up. I think Quirion Ranger is the better 1 mana accelerant, but I like the way combinations of cards can stack.

With the recent changes, I feel that the mana/threat balance is a little better. But, midrange has been difficult, so I wouldn't mind being able to beef things up in the sideboard, I want blocks to be difficult. I'm interested in Rancor, Rhonas, or Nylea as options.

Are you still on straight BG? Any chance we could get a list?

Also, to answer your question:
If you want 2 power with mana development, why not Nissa?

Nissa is definitely an option I'm looking at. I think the prevalence of Wasteland is making it harder to be 3 colors (not impossible by any means, just harder) so I'm interested in going straight BG. Nissa seems to be really good when mana is stable, allowing the ultimate to be reasonable.

[Brael]

Are you still on straight BG? Any chance we could get a list?

Yes, it's straight BG. Here's my next iteration of the list, I made a couple swaps since the last post. I'm contemplating the Liliana, it has gotten me out of a couple jams but I could see an argument for Deed in the slot.

Land 22
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog

Creatures 19
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Quirion Ranger
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Rhonas the Indominatable
1 Eternal Witness
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Vine Mare
1 Thragtusk

Spells 20
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Crop Rotation
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Exploration
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
1 Collective Brutality
1 Cast Down
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

Sideboard 15
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Lost Legacy
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Marsh Casaulties
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Massacre

Sometime this week I'll be running this (maybe with the Liliana/Deed swap) through another league. Also interested in a Tower of the Magistrate in the SB, and perhaps removing Stronghold from the deck (or moving it SB) in place of another colored source. Massacre is a bit narrow, so that's the first slot I would look to for a cut and if I want a second cut I would probably look at Maelstrom Pulse since it's so slow.

[Mr. Safety]

I have loved Liliana, but I always had at least 2 Deeds alongside it. I'm curious to see Golgari Charm maindeck...it's that good in your metagame?

[Brael]

I have loved Liliana, but I always had at least 2 Deeds alongside it. I'm curious to see Golgari Charm maindeck...it's that good in your metagame?

Golgari Charm was a concession to the mana curve while still wanting to have the versatility of Deed.

I've learned a thing or two about these low curve high velocity lists, and one of the rules I've come up with is that I shoot for 75 mana pips in my deck. Too far under that and the deck drifts towards not being strong enough on the board, while too far above that seriously impacts your card velocity.

So, as a result, I had 2 pips I could afford on a slot. I wanted something that could take care of cards that Abrupt Decay could not. Golgari Charm allowed me to go wide and deal with things like Delver or Pyromancer, or TNN, and various other X/1's as well. It also allowed me to take care of some enchantments that Deed would be too slow to deal with. It has been good against Search for Azcanta, Sneak Attack, Omniscience, Moat, and others. The regeneration mode has occasionally been relevant as well. I wouldn't say it's the best card in the 76, but it has pulled it's weight.

I've been playing it on MTGO and it seems strong enough there.

Cutting it for a Deed wouldn't be the end of the world, but the deck is leaner and meaner in my opinion with it.

[Ralf]

+1 for golgari MD.

This card is insane in Legacy.

[Mr. Safety]

That makes sense, especially when talking curve. I always found the 2-mana slot thin in Nic Fit; I either had great 1-mana plays (and doubled up turn 2) or I was trying really hard to get to 3+. I strongly encourage you to keep Liliana TLH even if you do want a deed. I would cut something else to make room, especially with 21 creatures maindeck. That's good odds you'll either mill over something to get back or just already have something to get back in the graveyard. This works very well with Meren (which is strangely absent from your list? Instead Vine Mare and Chameleon Colossus?)

[Brael]

That makes sense, especially when talking curve. I always found the 2-mana slot thin in Nic Fit; I either had great 1-mana plays (and doubled up turn 2) or I was trying really hard to get to 3+. I strongly encourage you to keep Liliana TLH even if you do want a deed. I would cut something else to make room, especially with 21 creatures maindeck. That's good odds you'll either mill over something to get back or just already have something to get back in the graveyard. This works very well with Meren (which is strangely absent from your list? Instead Vine Mare and Chameleon Colossus?)

I tried Meren in this first, it's well positioned right now, but it's not good in this list because it doesn't really put enough power on the board. In one of my 4-1 leagues it was in there, and it even won me a game but the bigger things help a lot more.

My mana curve is a lot different from the typical Nic Fit list, not counting GSZ which is too variable. It's
1 - 14
2 - 14
3 - 8
4 - 2
5 - 1

I agree that the 2 slot is often a bit thin, but I work hard at trying to fill it. The 2 drop slot is the most important slot in Magic, decks that are weak on 2's are often weak overall.

I'm only willing to cut a non creature 3 for a Deed so that narrows the list to Toxic Deluge vs Liliana and Deluge offers much more utility.

[kinda]

I picked up veteran explorers last week to try out nic shit tomorrow. List below from what creatures it seems I have...need some cuts? I want to optimise summoning trap so the only non creatures in the md are trap (which chalice actives btw), cabal therapy, and possibly abrupt decay since it can't get countered.

2 swamp
4 forest
1 wastes
3 verdant catacombs
4 Llanowar wastes
4 Ancient Tomb
1 phyrexian tower
2 high market
2 overgrown tomb
1 eldrazi temple

4 veteran explorer
3 phyrexian revoker
2 scavenging ooze
2 kitesail freebooter
2 tireless tracker
2 rhonas the indomitable
3 deaths shadow
2 abyssal persecutor
3 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4 thought not seer
3 kalonian hydra
1 drana kalastria
1 grave titan
4 cabal therapy
3 summoning trap

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
4 engineered plague
3 abrupt decay
2 innocent blood
4 Thoughtseize
1 carpet of flowers

[Mr. Safety]

You need Therapies, for sure.

[kinda]

You need Therapies, for sure.

Whoops...yes definitely. I fixed the list.

[Echelon]

nic shit

At least you named your list right.

In all seriousness though Nic Fit works b/c it's consistent. It's consistent b/c of GSZ and library manipulation like Mirri's Guile/Sylvan Library. In your case I'd just go for a straight BG list with a green creature suite. It'll at least make your manabase much more robust. Run stuff like Sakura-Tribe Elder and Nissa, Vastwood Seer to help your mana development. For the topend of your manacurve you can go for something like a Thragtusk and a Carnage Tyrant. If you opt for a non-green topend at least include a Fierce Empath in your list so you can GSZ for it.

[pettdan]

There are a lot of interesting things going on, like the 6 maindeck discard hatebears, the ramping and varolz+shadow synergy/combo, but I agree with Echelon. Add some elements of consistency. Summoning Trap can probably be great, but I'd start by changing it into 3 Green Sun's Zeniths and considering having 2 Summoning Traps in the sideboard. I guess the question is if you even need them at all. The decks that will counter your creatures, you already have 6 discard hatebears to pull out their counterspells and.. I don't know, Summoning Trap seems excessive. Also, Sylvan Library is not only great by itself, it's probably greater still if you play Death's Shadow. So I would offer the list some much needed card draw and increase the usefulness of Death's Shadow in the list. If you have 3 Green Sun's Zeniths in the list, you don't need 3 Varolz. So skip 2 Varolz for Sylvans. Varolz doesn't need to survive, he just needs to enable scavenge once.

GSZ also lets you pull down on Hydras. And you have zero removal, I think once you played the list 1-2 times you'll want to change the Revokers into Decays or something. Liliana of the Last Hope too perhaps...

[kinda]

Thanks for the replies! I definitely agree that gsz plus sylvan library would be you know "objectively better". I ran both last week along with pattern of rebirth/devoted druid/kalonian hydra to a 3-1 finish. I'll try trap for fun this week but then cut it when I run this again.

[hermit_druid]

I picked up veteran explorers last week to try out nic shit tomorrow. List below from what creatures it seems I have...need some cuts? I want to optimise summoning trap so the only non creatures in the md are trap (which chalice actives btw), cabal therapy, and possibly abrupt decay since it can't get countered.

2 swamp
4 forest
1 wastes
3 verdant catacombs
4 Llanowar wastes
4 Ancient Tomb
1 phyrexian tower
2 high market
2 overgrown tomb
1 eldrazi temple

4 veteran explorer
3 phyrexian revoker
2 scavenging ooze
2 kitesail freebooter
2 tireless tracker
2 rhonas the indomitable
3 deaths shadow
2 abyssal persecutor
3 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4 thought not seer
3 kalonian hydra
1 drana kalastria
1 grave titan
4 cabal therapy
3 summoning trap

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
4 engineered plague
3 abrupt decay
2 innocent blood
4 Thoughtseize
1 carpet of flowers

Have you thought about helm of obedience? To go with sb leylines.

[kinda]

Whitefaces borrowed nic shit tonight for the lolz and went 1-2. He beat dredge, lost to reanimator, and lost a crazy g3 to dragon stompy. His oopponent plays chalice on 1 on turn 2. He then on his turn two, throws veteran explorer into the chalice and double summoning traps getting thought knot seer and dralna kalastria blood chief...but still loses. List is above with some changes, he added green Sun's Zenith, abrupt decay, and thoughtseize md...moved summoning trap to the sb and cut 2 Varolz mostly.

[Ralf]

Hello,

So I played the MKM series Legacy main event in Paris this week-end (194 players).
Finished 13th with Golgari Fit after 9 rounds (record 7-2).

I'll write a report when I have more time.

List can be found in one of my former post.

Regards,

Ralf

[Echelon]

Awesome. Congrats on the result!

[Valkyrie]

Oh my god, congrats for the pretty nice result! Iam really looking forward to your report!

[Ralf]

Sorry I've just realized that the list posted here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31293-Primer-Nic-Fit&p=1040173&viewfull=1#post1040173) was not completely accurate.

So while waiting for the report, here is the list that I registered.

Golgari Fit

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Wooded Foothills
5 Forest
4 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Bojuka Bog

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Grim Flayer
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Fierce Empath
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
1 Carnage Tyrant
1 Massacre Wurm

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Crop Rotation
1 To the Slaughter

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge

1 Pernicious Deed

1 Nissa, Vital Force


Sideboard :

SB: 1 Thragtusk
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Lost Legacy
SB: 1 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

[Brael]

I like your list, I haven't been liking Dark Confidant much lately so I'm looking to move to something similar. Glad it worked out.

[Tokugawa]

https://227rsi2stdr53e3wto2skssd7xe-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Assassins_Trophy_EN.png
How many copies of it would you bring?

[Ralf]

Let's analyse:

1) This card handles everything/every CMC (land/PW included) which is very nice in Golgari colors (decay doesn't deal with manlands and any CMC >3)
2) This card means CDA if your opponent does have a basic left in his library (you play a card to replace one of your oppo's permanent by a basic)
3) This card can be "counter spelled"
4) This card handles Jace (just to name one of our worst enemy when not playing G/B/R)

It will be played, IMHO.

Get ready.

[Echelon]

It's an automatic 4-off for non-Junk and at least 2-3 for any Junk list. Perhaps 4-off for Evo Leap lists too.

[Ralf]

It's an automatic 4-off for non-Junk and at least 2-3 for any Junk list. Perhaps 4-off for Evo Leap lists too.

Don't over estimate.

Point 3. is why you will still die to Delver decks.

But if your statement is correct. Start buying "snares"...

[Echelon]

It nevet has been a problem with StP/PtE so it won't be a problem for the new card.

[Ralf]

It nevet has been a problem with StP/PtE so it won't be a problem for the new card.

I would not dare comparing CMC 1 cards with a CMC 2 card. There is A world of differences between them especially when it gets to be tempo'ed out of a game...

Don't get me wrong. Delver is why you play AD in the first place (when you don't have access to good CMC 1 spot removal which sometimes is not enough if your STP/PTE is countered).

[Brael]

Answering literally everything other than Storm is extremely relevant. I will be playing these over Diabolic Edict, I'll become weaker to Emrakul and TNN but stronger against pretty much everything else. It probably also straight up replaces Maelstrom Pulse, so that makes three easy slots.

My removal slots in a stock list would then be:
1 Karakas
2 Crop Rotation
1 Abrupt Decay
3 New card
1 Golgari Charm
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Collective Brutality

Plus 3-4 Hymn and 4 Therapy.

In other news for you Ralf, how did you find Grim Flayer to be?

[Ralf]

In other news for you Ralf, how did you find Grim Flayer to be?

You'll have my thoughts in the report so I won't spoil too much. I'll also post almost 25 sideboard tables that I had prepared for the event.

I was well prepared tbh. Shame I didn't hit top 8.

Concerning Grim Flayer. He took the place of my wall of blossoms to better fight combo decks. Providing a clock and card quality at the same time because our draw engine is usually a tad too slow in those MUs.

I wasn't disappointed by him to be honest and his filtering ability did pull its weight.

But this card is weak tbh when you look at the deck.

A necessary evil maybe.

[Ralf]

Sorry for the incoming wall of text.
As promised, here is a report of Paris MKM series.
9 rounds – 194 players. Finished 13th.

The list.
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Wooded Foothills
5 Forest
4 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Bojuka Bog

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Grim Flayer
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Fierce Empath
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
1 Carnage Tyrant
1 Massacre Wurm

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Crop Rotation
1 To the Slaughter

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge

1 Pernicious Deed

1 Nissa, Vital Force


Sideboard :

SB: 1 Thragtusk
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Lost Legacy
SB: 1 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

60 cards / 15.

Golgari fit.

I knew I wanted something very stable that had means to defeat combo decks. I’m not saying it has good MUs against combo decks but playing a pure golgari deck, gives you the stability to reliably cast HTT by T2. Period.

I’m no beginner with Nic Fit variants (I’ve played all of them in sanctioned events) and I’ve contributed a lot to this community (especially in the past).
Electing an aggro/control deck for such event was a safe shot. I expected the meta to be relatively fair and we all know that Nic Fit is usually comfortable with such expectations.

On to the “big” choices:

1) The high-end curve.

I have elected 4 HEC. Obviously, each one of them has a purpose:
- Ishkanah -> to better fight flying creatures or stalled boards
- Titania -> to better fight S&T
- Tyrant -> to better fight permission decks (U/x control)
- Massacre Wurm -> to better fight aggro decks (gobelin, D&T etc…) What a slaughter.
- Nissa -> the best mono green PW.
Ice on the cake, Ishkanah and Titania do not fear karakas. Worse, you can loop them using your own karakas (to evil deeds)…
Massacre fits only because of the golgari nature of the deck.

2) The middle ground.

- Ramunap + GQ -> to have a chance against big eldrazi and gives you an alternative when you don’t want to give basic lands to your opponent
- EW -> pure value
- Courser -> MD lifegain and card advantage. Perfect body that can help you to transition to the endgame
- Tracker -> draw engine but slow one. Can take over a game if left unchecked.
- Empath -> tutor for your endgame
- Ooze -> one of the best anti tempo creature ever. Suck graveyards like a kid on a chups…
- Grim Flayer -> the weirdo. Beater and quality at the sametime. Usually perfect against combo deck as his power would match a tarmo and provide an endless steam of hate cards. What else?

Tracker is good. But it is really slow and usually doesn’t provide any ETB trigger. It is a creature that I rarely GSZ on an empty board for. When you have a land engine in place, the card is wonderful, otherwise, the go-to will usually be Courser or EW.
Many middle grounders synergise very well together.
And when you have enough mana Empath will give you the finisher you need in your MU (Wurm or Tyrant).

3) The removals suit.

4 Abrupt
1 Toxic
1 Pernicious
1 Pulse
1 To the slaughter

No way I lose to Tempo decks. This meant 4 decay. Period.
You don’t want to be caught in something like : I got double delvered G1. Same G2. Ever. Ever.

The mix of sweepers (1 toxic/ 1 perni) is mainly because of “delve” creatures all over the f.cking place in the meta right now. Not to mention numerous pithing effect in the meta

Then, the x for 1 card:
- Pulse is pretty self-explanatory -> it is the 5th decay with ice on the cake if your opponent has copies of the same card on the battlefield. It also handles PW like a boss.
- To the slaughter -> The “delirium” nature of the deck and the fact it is “instant” made me chose it over “virtu’s maneuver” (and the infinite loop it can provide with EW). I needed another instant to fit my delirium bill as I had already too many ritual spells in my deck. I also wanted an edict effect in the list for huge flying demons (karakas, To the slaughter, Ishkanah, 2 crop; you see where I’m heading) and another card to deal with PW.

4) The utility slots.

1 Karakas
1 Bojuka
1 Phyrexian
1 Ghost quarter
5 forest
4 swamp
2 bayou
7 fetches…

I wanted my manabase to be very resilient and very stable. 9 basics is a lot but the deck is outrageously mana hungry (activating Ishkanah is no joke). I tested with 4 bayou first but went down to two for more resiliency (expecting a wasteland meta as well). Yes I was losing some % to cast HTT by T2 but as I said I expected the meta to be largely fair.

Playing 2 crop (more is too greedy to my taste/testing) grants you the ability to have access to powerful effects that I shall no longer present. Those have obviously been chosen to fight unfair decks (anything cheating creatures in play or dumb cloudpost manabase).
Reanimator naming black on Iona just to get creampie with crop on Karakas is gross but you get the idea.
Eventually, crop on tower will give you absurd wins when you have THE hand. Cheating a Nissa by T2 happens. Not frequently (enough to our taste for sure) but when it does…you get THAT smile on the face (yeah you know, “Oh sorry dude, that was insane”)

The “Shit Show”:

Let’s now start with the run.

Round 1: I had a bye. 3 wins 1 loss at a trial on Saturday.


Round 2: Elves!


Game 1:

My opponent started. he led with forest + GSZ @ 0. I thought Maverick or Elves. I kept a very slow hand without any HTT nor CT/vet. I prayed for Maverick but eventually he played a fyndhorn elves. I knew the game was over. I got Hoof'd like a champ T4.

IN
1 Massacre
2 Golgari Charm
1 Edict
1 Duress
1 Sorcerous
1Sylvan

OUT
-1 Karakas
-1 Bojuka
-1 Tyrant
-1 Ishkana
-1 Nissa
-1 Empath
-1 Titania


Game 2:

I'm on the play. 5 lands, 1 Golgari charm, 1 Diabolic edict is my opening hand. I ponder for a minute. There is a hate card that can turn the tide but no action at all. I thought a lot about it and kept it. I figured out that I would draw action after all and chances to have a better 6 were low.

I landed and passed for the first 4 turns. Then my opponent went for it on T4 -> glimpse + massive draws + gaea + Hoof. I golgari charmed in response of Hoof's trigger and edicted the lonely Hoof (there was no nettle sentinel on the board). He saved a bunch of elves with his 2 symbiotes.
I GSZed for Flayer and eventually attacked for 4 while making sure I wasn't going to draw blank. He conceeded when Wurm landed on the battlefield.


Game 3:

I open a strong hand but I'm on the draw. 3 lands, 1 decay, 1 cabal, 1 deed, 1 GSZ. If I can make it to T3, I would be in a great shape.

I think he led with GSZ @ 0 again. I drew crop for the turn and landed a cabal naming NO. That draw was bonker.
He had 2 Fyndhorn / 2 symbiote / 1 visionary / 1 Crop.
He proceeded to play 1 symbiote + 1 visionary to prepare a strong T3.

I drew veteran T2 and pondered:
There was a very very light chance he could killed me T3 with only a symbiote + visionary + dryad so I landed veteran and flashbacked the therapy. As he didn't play his crop in response (after searching for 2 forest), I figured he might have drew Gaea on visionary (which he did). I named Symbiote and decayed the one he had on the table. He bounced the visionary. I passed the turn.

He led his T3 with a glimpse freshly drawn. He put many elves on the table while keeping 5 cards in hand.
I drew another GSZ for the turn. I wiped his board on T3 with deed @ 1. GSZed for another vet and passed the turn with 3 mana untapped.

He led his T4 with a lot of elves again. Down to 2 cards. He passed the turn and I cropped into Tower EOT.

I drew HTT for the turn. Tower the veteran +GSZed for witness into deed his board again.

From there he drew blank for a few turns and I smashed his face to victory.

Win 2/1


Round 3: Man of Steel


Game 1:

My opponent starts and put an Ankh of Mishra with a mox and a sol land (City of Traitor). Wow...

I keep a good hand with 2 Decay, 1 GSZ, 1 cabal, 3 lands. I draw Deed for the turn.

I play cabal with swamp on the first turn naming Lodestone golem (taking 2 with Ankh). His hand shows another Ankh, a chalice, a ballista and a land (darksteel). I pass the turn.

He then plays his darksteel city after playing Chalice on 1, sac'ed it for his darksteel, lands another Ankh and passes the turn.
I draw a land, play a forest (taking 4), decay an Ankh and pass the turn.

No land on his turn and he just plays the ballista on 1.
I draw veteran, play another forest (taking 2), decay the chalice, play the freshly drawn veteran, flashback the cabal in the yard naming Karn (taking 4 with Ankh) which missed (he drew Ancient tomb) and pass the turn.

He draws, plays his tomb, goes full tap and plays Karn, make a token with it (obviously...freshly drawn) and attack for 1 (I'm at 7).

I draw Courser, play deed, wipe his board @ 2 (ping me for 1 with the ballista, I'm at 6), play a land, pass the turn.

He draws, plays a land and makes another token with Karn (2/2 with darksteel), passes the turn.

I draw Ishkanah, play Courser, reveal a land on top of my library, play the land (gain 1 life, back to 7), reveal a GSZ, pass the turn.

He draws, activates Karn (I give him an inventor's fair, can't recall what I exiled), plays a Synod (token is now 3/3), passes the turn.

I draw GSZ, reveal another land on the top, play the land (gain 1 life, back to 7), reveal another land. GSZ for Witness, reveal Tracker, take back the deed, deed @ 0 (Token, synod), kill Karn with courser.

He concedes as I am so far ahead.

He is not playing a classic brown version of Man of Steel but I stick to my sideboard plan:

IN
1 Sorcerous
2 Golgari
1 Sage
1 Thrag
1 Sylvan
1 Edict

OUT
-3 HTT
-2 CT
-1 Bojuka
-1 Tyrant


Game 2:

My opponent starts. I keep a strong hand again with 2 GSZ, 3 lands, 1 crop, 1 x.

This game was the quickest one in my entire tournament. I got raped T1.
He opens on Ancient Tomb followed by a mox (discard a land). He then plays Grafdigger's cage and Thorn of Amethyst.

That start was brutal. I didn't draw any decay for the cage within the next 3 turns and died to a Lodestone Golem cast on his T2.


Game 3:

10 mins left on the clock. Game 1 was very long.

I start with an average hand: 1 vet, 1 GSZ, 3 lands, 1 decay, 1 golgari charm

I believe we exchanged blows for blows during a few turn. At some point my board is 1 Courser + 1 Tireless (4/3) against 1 Karn, 1 Etched Champion, 1 ballista, 1 Ravager.
I play massacre that I drew a turn or two before and he decided to sac' his board (saving the champion) to kill the Tracker.
Golgari played its second mode's role like a charm (pun intented) and Tracker got to live for extra porn...

The value provided by him was too much and my opponent scooped when the end of the round was called (I could kill him before the last turn anyway).

Win 2/1


Round 4: Death and Taxes


Game 1:

The first game is uneventful. My opponent mulligans to 5 and concedes on turn 4 when the wurm hits the battlefield.

IN
2 Golgari
1 Sorcerous
1 Sylvan
1 Massacre
1 Sage
1 Thragtusk

OUT
-3 GSZ
-2 CT
-1 Bog
-1 To the Slaughter


Game 2:

I keep a slow hand because it contains a golgari charm.
My opponent proceeds to play a SFM every turn starting turn 2.
I decay Jitte at some point, kill a thalia in response to the equip of batterskull and died to a flickerwisp attached to SOFI.


Game 3:

The last game is uneventful. I mulligan to 5 and died the turn before I could wipe is board and comeback in the game.

Bad beats are bad beats. Overall my winrate is positive against D&T but this demonstrates that no MU is 100% win.

Loss 2/1


Round 5: Goblins

I have lost my notes on that one.
But both matches went pretty straight forward:
1) Gather mana while discarding/killing his ultra fast wincons
2) GSZ into Empath to get Massacre Wurm
3) Play Massacre Wurm FTW.

I did "oneshot" him by the way in the first game while landing the Wurm...

Win 2/0

IN
2 Golgari
1 Sylvan
1 Sage
1 Massacre
1 Thrag

OUT
-1 To the Slaughter
-1 Bojuka
-1 Tower
-1 Ishkanah
-2 CT


Round 6: Stoneblade

Game 1

The first game reached a point where I wiped his board with Massacre Wurm. He than proceeds by landing Jace + TNN + batterskull.
I topdecked like a champ -> "To the slaughter". Game. Period.

Game 2

One of the most uneventful game ever.
I played a sorcerous spyglass T2 while my oppo had an island + a flooded strand in play. He then showed me his hand which contained no other land/neither cantrips. So I just named the said fetch and won the match...

IN
2 Golgari
1 Sorcerous
1 Sylvan
1 Edict
1 Massacre
1 Sage
1 Thragtusk

OUT
-3 GSZ
-4 CT
-1 Bog

Win 2/0


Round 7: Grixis Control

I got slaughtered both games.
The first one I died to HTT + Snapcaster into HTT followed by a Jace. I managed drawing lands for 5 turns (thanks to Jace) in a row (with already something like 7 on the board) while my opponent went runner, runner, runner...
The second game I was in a good shape with 3 "must answer" threats for him that I could land in 2 turns:
1) Sylvan -> FOW
2) Deed -> FOW
3) Titania -> FOW

Oh well, shit happens (god hands also).

I fucked it up pretty hard, here, locking me out off the top 8. My sideboard attempts was really bad and all I remember was siding out "Cabal therapy" which cost me the game. You have to respect FOW in this MU.

Loss 2/0


Round 8: UB Death Shadow

I won the first game, lost the second one.
The last game was interesting as I think everything was decided by my keep/decision.
My hand was above the average (Veteran + CT) and a Tyrant.

I knew I would lose to a combination of Thoughtseize+reanimate from my opponent.
As I was on the play, I named TS.

Of course he had 2 TS and 2 reanimate in his opening hand.
Needless to say that the Tyrant closed the game pretty fast against my "a bit salty" opponent.

IN
1 Spellbomb
1 Duress
1 Edict
1 Faerie
1 Sage
1 Thragtusk
1 Sylvan

OUT
-1 Karakas
-1 Nissa
-1 Wurm
-1 Empath
-2 GSZ
-1 Titania

Win 2/1


Round 9: Gobelin

Nothing particular.
My opponent flooded a bit during G1 even after 2 veteran triggers. Wurm closed the first game.
The second game was a bit more intense but a timely deed followed by a Kruphix put me right back into it.

IN
2 Golgari
1 Sylvan
1 Sage
1 Massacre
1 Thrag

OUT
-1 To the Slaughter
-1 Bojuka
-1 Tower
-1 Ishkanah
-2 CT

Win 2/0

Hope you enjoyed the report.
If you have any questions please feel free to shoot.

Regards,

Ralf

[Brael]

@Ralf.

A couple comments on your list since we're running things that are somewhat similar (colors, land counts, removal, etc)

I've been playing a Twilight Mire as one of my lands. I've really been liking it because it occasionally lets me open on Forest but still have a T2 Hymn.

I've had much better results than you with Tireless Tracker. I'm probably going to switch to something similar to your list, but I want more Trackers. Courser of Kruphix has been very bad in my experience, among other things it makes it very easy for opponents with a Jace the Mind Sculptor to know exactly when they should +2 to lock you out of the game. So I've been finding that Courser takes what is already a strong card against us, and makes it even stronger against us. Fierce Empath feels bad as well (and if it goes, so does Massacre Wurm). So between those 3 cards you could make room for a playset of Trackers. Otherwise, the only real thing I would change, is to swap Nissa out for a 4 CMC creature to GSZ on the 5 mana openings. It will make the strong mana hands much stronger.

[Ralf]

@Ralf.

A couple comments on your list since we're running things that are somewhat similar (colors, land counts, removal, etc)

I've been playing a Twilight Mire as one of my lands. I've really been liking it because it occasionally lets me open on Forest but still have a T2 Hymn.

I've had much better results than you with Tireless Tracker. I'm probably going to switch to something similar to your list, but I want more Trackers. Courser of Kruphix has been very bad in my experience, among other things it makes it very easy for opponents with a Jace the Mind Sculptor to know exactly when they should +2 to lock you out of the game. So I've been finding that Courser takes what is already a strong card against us, and makes it even stronger against us. Fierce Empath feels bad as well (and if it goes, so does Massacre Wurm). So between those 3 cards you could make room for a playset of Trackers. Otherwise, the only real thing I would change, is to swap Nissa out for a 4 CMC creature to GSZ on the 5 mana openings. It will make the strong mana hands much stronger.

Courser might be not great against Jace but the deck is not bad against Jace as a whole.
It has been fantastic in many other MUs. Tireless is very good but draw too much attention from your oppo. It sticks rarely. And I'm talking about games where you have Tireless and Courser out...

Wurm was MVP this week-end but I'll come to it in my report. Closing games faster than anything else. It is very good in fair games. Especially when you play 3 games.

I would make changes to my list after this week-end but you will be surprised when the full report is out.

Don't forget that my deck was heavily metagamed. That's the beauty of playing a GSZ toolbox. You can tweak the creatures you wanna play to your expected meta.

US meta is known to be even fairer so I don't see the list doing less good over there.
Europe is less fair definitely.

Regards,

Ralf

PS: if someone wants it I've got 20+ sideboard tables at the ready. Just PM me.

[kinda]

Went 1-2 drop tonight beating Canadian thresh and losing to depths and seismic swans. Turbo depths feels close to unwinnable. I saw Ralf has 2 crop rotations and a Karakas...and I'll pick up Assassin's trophies. Diabolic edict in the board i suppose too? Still seems miserable. Losing to Swans was silly...g3 I didn't see blood moon coming and simply didn't fetch basics. Suggestions?


2 swamp
3 forest
1 wastes
3 verdant catacombs
4 Llanowar wastes
4 Ancient Tomb
1 phyrexian tower
2 overgrown tomb
1 eldrazi temple
1 dryad arbor

1 oath of ghouls
4 Leyline of the Void
2 helm of obedience
1 diabolic intent
4 veteran explorer
2 phyrexian revoker
1 scavenging ooze
1 tireless tracker
1 rhonas the indomitable
3 deaths shadow
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4 thought not seer
1 kalonian hydra
4 cabal therapy
4 green Sun's Zenith
3 abrupt decay
2 sylvan library

SB:
4 engineered plague
2 innocent blood
4 Thoughtseize
1 carpet of flowers
2 choke
1 eternal witness
1 xantid swarm

[streetMage]

https://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/270/860/636722946574759813.png

Probably the only Legacy deck I think may run this.. finds Pernicious Deed, Abrupt Decay/Assassin's Trophy etc...

[Mr. Safety]

https://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/270/860/636722946574759813.png

Probably the only Legacy deck I think may run this.. finds Pernicious Deed, Abrupt Decay/Assassin's Trophy etc...

Is it just me, or is this a fairly decent reanimator card? T1 faithless looting, t2 tutor for reanimate. It seems like nic fit is a tad too fair to really use this, I mean diabolic intent is already a card.

[kinda]

Is it just me, or is this a fairly decent reanimator card? T1 faithless looting, t2 tutor for reanimate. It seems like nic fit is a tad too fair to really use this, I mean diabolic intent is already a card.

It's just you. You either don't have creatures in your gy and it's useless or you do and you'd rather it be a reanimate/exhume/animate dead. However...it does assemble deaths shadow plus Varolz and leyline of the void plus oath of ghouls :tongue: .

Edit: It does work with LED...so possibly reanimator yes.

[Echelon]

It's not a Nic Fit card though.

[Mr. Safety]

It's just you. You either don't have creatures in your gy and it's useless or you do and you'd rather it be a reanimate/exhume/animate dead. However...it does assemble deaths shadow plus Varolz and leyline of the void plus oath of ghouls :tongue: .

Edit: It does work with LED...so possibly reanimator yes.

See my notes in the Ravnica thread. It also tutors reanimate, entomb, thoughtseize, and other undetermined black 1 mana cards.

@Echelon: I agree, this is not a Nic Fit card.

[Sinkhole]

I am thinking of building up Nic Fit. The deck seems to be lot of fun to play. I would love to build up the Enchantress/ Academy Rector variant with Living Plane. I haven`t found really much deck lists for that variant, so it doesn`t see much play. So I am not sure, if this Nic Fit variant is competive anymore, especally with the upcoming of the Trophy. For example your oppents now will have a relative easy option for dealing with a Splendor. Is and will Rector- Enchantment Nicfit still be a strong deck?

[Echelon]

Sure, b/c BGx won't be 100% of the meta.

And when facing BGx you'll just have to board in more discard.

Also, Dovescape just becomes more important.

[Ganfar]

http://mythicspoiler.com/grn/cards/knightofautumn.jpg

This card looks like a nice one of in the Junk Nic-Fit deck.

[Echelon]

It replaces Rec. Sage without a doubt

[MD.Ghost]

http://mythicspoiler.com/grn/cards/knightofautumn.jpg

This card looks like a nice one of in the Junk Nic-Fit deck.

Another card to toy with Recurring Nightmare for Junk clearly a better Rec Sage. As an Elves players its a shame its a Dryad creature :rolleyes: Overall another Target for Zenith Toolbox

[lucacip88]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjPrBqfWEGU


What do you think of this variant of nic fit played by Andrea Mengucci? I find it very interesting :smile:

[Echelon]

Slow and clunky as heck and not worth the money. If you want to splurge that much on a Legacy deck just go for anything that runs the cantrip suite and all that comes with it and you'll have a much better chance vs. most of the meta.

[square_two]

It replaces Rec. Sage without a doubt

If you're in fair Junk, I'd be even tempted to run 2 of them maindeck. Card is pretty insane upgrade over Rec Sage.

Fair Junk with Archons? Maybe I could be tempted back to it.

[Purple Blood]

Slow and clunky as heck and not worth the money. If you want to splurge that much on a Legacy deck just go for anything that runs the cantrip suite and all that comes with it and you'll have a much better chance vs. most of the meta.

Yeah seems so dependent on luck of the draw and hoping your opponent cannot disrupt your fragile combo. Watching his video within a few turns he's completely out of gas most games and relying on top deck. I wonder if Bant would be a better approach to that deck. Cantrips, FoW, and Perilous Research are probably better than discard from black given the way the deck plays. You cannot really play a control game anyway.

His deck list has way too many wincons in the deck (11 in his list) which just adds to the clunkiness. With brainstorm you can cut that number down since you won't get cards stranded in your hand. Hymn was destroying him every game which brainstorm would help with as well.

Still doubt the deck would be very good.

[lucacip88]

Yeah seems so dependent on luck of the draw and hoping your opponent cannot disrupt your fragile combo. Watching his video within a few turns he's completely out of gas most games and relying on top deck. I wonder if Bant would be a better approach to that deck. Cantrips, FoW, and Perilous Research are probably better than discard from black given the way the deck plays. You cannot really play a control game anyway.

His deck list has way too many wincons in the deck (11 in his list) which just adds to the clunkiness. With brainstorm you can cut that number down since you won't get cards stranded in your hand. Hymn was destroying him every game which brainstorm would help with as well.

Still doubt the deck would be very good.


an idea would be to put the leyline of sanctity in the side by changing them with the leyline of the void, it helps a lot against hymn, thoughtsize various and burn, and against the gy put at least 3 surgical.

[1ron]

Yeah seems so dependent on luck of the draw and hoping your opponent cannot disrupt your fragile combo. Watching his video within a few turns he's completely out of gas most games and relying on top deck. I wonder if Bant would be a better approach to that deck. Cantrips, FoW, and Perilous Research are probably better than discard from black given the way the deck plays. You cannot really play a control game anyway.

His deck list has way too many wincons in the deck (11 in his list) which just adds to the clunkiness. With brainstorm you can cut that number down since you won't get cards stranded in your hand. Hymn was destroying him every game which brainstorm would help with as well.

Still doubt the deck would be very good.


I've played this deck and it's so much fun. I've won a couple local events with it.

[nimkee]

I thought I posted this before but apparently didn't.

3 different Nic Fit lists made the Legacy Constructed list a week or two ago: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2018-09-22

All three of them were either academy or arena rector builds, or a combination of the two.

[Gruby]

Hi. Which discard you chose after therapies?
Now I'm running 3 duress in SB. But thinking about putting something different into main. It's obviously about hymn (own)/thoughtseize(don't have).
My pros and cons.

Hymn To Tourah:
+makes 2for1
+takes anything from hand
+don't cost life
+simply like it ;-)
-Playable MOSTLY after therapy
-Needs BB on turn 2

Thoughtseize :
+takes anything
+needs only B
+superb when followed by therapy (playable any moment)
-Costs life
-1for1

And what reccursion other than witness is your choice? Reccuring nightmare/meren/volrath's stronghold/Nissa vital force -ability? Any others?

Sorry for mistakes, writing on mobile ;-)

[Echelon]

Hymn is an option for pure BG lists. For 3 colour lists you're probably best off running Thoughtseize.

For recursion I like Meren a lot, since she's GSZ'able. In a fair list I also run a Volrath's Stronghold, in lists with Rectors (either fair or Evo Leap) I run neither.

[Mr. Safety]

Out of pure curiosity (I'm not running Nic Fit at the moment): I'm sure Sylvan Safekeeper has been tried in Nic Fit, how did it perform? In Turbo Depths it's an all-star at protecting Marig Lage, I imagine it would do the same for Nic Fit considering the amount of card advantage it could provide with Ramanup Excavator/Crucible (or even Loam.)

[Echelon]

Sacrificing lands isn't CA.

It has seen play in builds with Titania as potential blowout.

[Mr. Safety]

Sacrificing lands isn't CA.

It has seen play in builds with Titania as potential blowout.



...card advantage it could provide with Ramanup Excavator/Crucible (or even Loam.)

[Echelon]

Replaying a land in that manner isn't necessarily useful nor something I'd consider CA... I'd care very little about playing the same Forest 10 turns in a row.

[Mr. Safety]

It completely nullifies opponent's removal. Seems alright to me.

[Gruby]

Hymn is an option for pure BG lists. For 3 colour lists you're probably best off running Thoughtseize.

For recursion I like Meren a lot, since she's GSZ'able. In a fair list I also run a Volrath's Stronghold, in lists with Rectors (either fair or Evo Leap) I run neither.

What do You mean by fair list? ;-) I'm mostly in rhino fit, now with Meren and Witness on board. But sometimes I feel it's not enough.

[square_two]

It completely nullifies opponent's removal. Seems alright to me.

I've played her in lists with Titania and Trackers.

The issue with Safekeeper + Ramunap + ??? is like...it's a bit over the top. Safekeeper to protect something that will win (???) ((unless you are going to use Ramunap land recursion to win...which is slow and doesn't deal with threats already on the board)) plus something to help recur the lands is just way too slow. If you have Safekeeper in play -already- by the time you cast Titania, then fine. If Titania by herself survives a turn...then you probably don't need the followup Safekeeper anyway.

Safekeeper early on doesn't ramp you, you'll probably spend two mana early on to GSZ for Vet instead. Wasting a GSZ to get Safekeeper in play -before- any other threat is generally a waste of a turn or waste of a GSZ. If there's an increase in targeted destruction effects (Trophy) then a single Meren might be better. E Witness can get anything back from Trophy anyway.

Safekeeper + Ramunap is fine on the land destruction front, but it's a poor plan to counter the T1 delver that is going to kill you.

[sdematt]

Posting while on deployment. Bear with me.

The new 1GW guy seems nice and flexible, I woukd run 1-2 of. Replaces Sage, and likely Qasali. Meren looks a but stronger, as does Rec Nightmare with no DRS in the format.

I think Assassin's Trophy is VERY interesting considering we exploit PTE to great effect. However, Daze and Snare are really where you lose those Delver matchups. I would consider still keeping your removal and just tweaking numbers. Ex. 2 Trophy 3 Decay 2 Path still is a nice split.

Any thoughts?

[Brael]

I was originally thinking Trophy is just another good removal spell. The more I've played with it though, the more I'm on the 4 of plan. It's just that good.

[Echelon]

@sdematt You've found the new good stuff. I've replaced AD for AT 1-on-1 for now, I run a 3 PtE, 2 AT split.

[Gruby]

Does Nic-Fit died? :( Almost month without Your posts. No tournament reports, no techs, nothing...

Assasin's thropy placed in Abrupt's slots? Maybe You play split or other versions?

Autumn Knight is quite obvious replacemnt for sage/pridemate :)

[square_two]

Does Nic-Fit died? :( Almost month without Your posts. No tournament reports, no techs, nothing...

Assasin's thropy placed in Abrupt's slots? Maybe You play split or other versions?

Autumn Knight is quite obvious replacemnt for sage/pridemate :)

For better or worse, most folks moved over to the discord.

[Mr. Safety]

Academy Rector Nic fit just went undefeated in a 11/3 Online league:

https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=20472&d=334264&f=LE

[Echelon]

Evolutionary Leap list. Cool