[Primer] Nic Fit

[fireiced]

Shameless copy of Navsi's Nahiri Sneaky with some fine tuning (removing Nahiri :o) and pushing it back down to 60 cards

[14] Creatures
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Fierce Empath
1 Eternal Witness
1 Siege Rhino
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

[14] Core
3 Sneak Attack
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top

[9] Removal
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Collective Brutality
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed

[1] Planeswalkers
1 Nissa, Vital Force

[22] Land
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Savannah
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold

Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Thoughtseize
1 Pithing Needle
2 Blood Moon
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Nahiri, the Harbringer
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Inferno Titan
1 Toxic Deluge

Comments on the changes:
- I miss Abrupt Decays, I really do. It comes in swapping Nahiri out. Nahiri is fantastic no doubt but she is horrid vs Tempo and Taxation. She is awesome enough to warrant a spot in the SB.
- Prime Time -> 2 Towers comes in instead of Inferno Titan. Inferno Titan getting plowed just plainly sucks and I want the 6 drop to be the death kneel for Miracles. Red Titan can come in vs Elves and DnT.
- We got W and we got R, I see no reason to not to add in Huntmaster and Rhino :laugh:
- The threat of the combo is greater than the combo itself. Nic Fit is first and foremost a control deck seeking to prolong the game till our mana >> theirs. Sneaky serves this purpose even better as opponents hold out counter mana and play poorly due to this threat as Sneaky Fit is very uncommon. Hence I cut 1 Sneak Attack down to 3. (Basically same train of thought as Splinter Twin)
- Ooze because I am selfish and do not want to let others have fun with GY shenanigans.
- Personal preferences, I like 7 Basics 7 Fetches 6-7 Duals in my Nic Fit decks. Shifted Scrubland to Bayou because the Golgari land is more critical than the Orzhov land especially when facing Wastelands.
- I really want to have a Toxic Deluge MB but I refuse to dip into 61 card territory for a deck with a combo plan.
- SB is basically stopping myself from losing and pushing my Plan A (Nic Fit Value Town) forward. No City of Solitude as I do not play to push Plan B hard. (I board out the entire combo most of the time)

I did bring this to a local tournament with a 4-0 & 3-1 score and 3 weeks of playtesting. Looking forward to your inputs :tongue:

On a side note, After having a lot of fun with Meren and Sakura Tribe Elder together in EDH, I feel these 2 absolutely have to be paired together if we are playing Meren.






Edit: for correct [number] singletons make it hard to count =x

[Echelon]

After a year of silence, I have returned, ready to make Echelon more amazing signatures!

Legacy finally started catching on at my LGS, and I'm ready to come back to Nic Fit as a deck that is easily accessible to me, although it would be built slowly. The scene is, as far as I know, mostly Burn, with some D&T, Infect, and Reanimator. I've caught up on the primer, but still feel out of the loop a little bit. I also can't decide between Jund and Abzan. I own a single Badlands that I desperately want to play with, but I own 4 Windswept Heaths and 3 Godless Shrine (Eventually they'll be Scrublands, but it's a start!). Which version should I run, and does anybody have a list of the recommended version?

Welcome back!

As for builds, or what to get first, saving towards a set of Verdant Catacombs is never a bad plan. Any version of Nic Fit will want 4 of those (and nets you some more time to make up your mind).


I thought they came in untapped too. I'm going to have to think about this more now. I think it's still ok but that one turn does matter.

That 1 turn can be the difference between life and death.

[Tokugawa]

Welcome back!

As for builds, or what to get first, saving towards a set of Verdant Catacombs is never a bad plan. Any version of Nic Fit will want 4 of those (and nets you some more time to make up your mind).



That 1 turn can be the difference between life and death.

Rhino version could be a good start, as it is extremely cheap. All its non
-land cards cost less than…a set of Scapewish or Burnwillow.

[fireiced]

Rhino version could be a good start, as it is extremely cheap. All its non
-land cards cost less than…a set of Scapewish or Burnwillow.

I think set of Burnwillows cost as much as 1-2 lower end Duals :laugh:

@Tokugawa, your location is Beijing so will you be at GP Beijing later in May? Would be travelling down and totally would not mind meeting up with a fellow Nic Fit player :laugh:

[Navsi]

- I miss Abrupt Decays, I really do. It comes in swapping Nahiri out. Nahiri is fantastic no doubt but she is horrid vs Tempo and Taxation. She is awesome enough to warrant a spot in the SB.
- Prime Time -> 2 Towers comes in instead of Inferno Titan. Inferno Titan getting plowed just plainly sucks and I want the 6 drop to be the death kneel for Miracles. Red Titan can come in vs Elves and DnT.
- We got W and we got R, I see no reason to not to add in Huntmaster and Rhino :laugh:
- The threat of the combo is greater than the combo itself. Nic Fit is first and foremost a control deck seeking to prolong the game till our mana >> theirs. Sneaky serves this purpose even better as opponents hold out counter mana and play poorly due to this threat as Sneaky Fit is very uncommon. Hence I cut 1 Sneak Attack down to 3. (Basically same train of thought as Splinter Twin)
- Ooze because I am selfish and do not want to let others have fun with GY shenanigans.
- Personal preferences, I like 7 Basics 7 Fetches 6-7 Duals in my Nic Fit decks. Shifted Scrubland to Bayou because the Golgari land is more critical than the Orzhov land especially when facing Wastelands.
- I really want to have a Toxic Deluge MB but I refuse to dip into 61 card territory for a deck with a combo plan.
- SB is basically stopping myself from losing and pushing my Plan A (Nic Fit Value Town) forward. No City of Solitude as I do not play to push Plan B hard. (I board out the entire combo most of the time)

- Adding Decay is fine. I don't agree with cutting Nahiri though. Going into four color hits your consistency and if you aren't playing the good payoff cards you might as well stay in three colours. Swords is nice but it's not so much better than Innocent Blood to make the splash worth it. Nahiri adds a completely new angle of attack.
- Dropping Inferno Titan feels terrible. Against STP decks he isn't what you search up anyway (unless you can sweep DnT) so he's only a problem if you draw him naturally, whereas against other decks he is a powerful sweeper, and by having one copy in the deck against Miracles you get eight copies against Elves. Getting Primeval Titan STPed is pretty bad too, towers mean any new threats are good but it's not like he got you anywhere either and he's garbage everywhere else.
- Threatening is all well and good but being able to slam threats and force your opponent to answer them is similarly powerful and actually wins you the game some of the time. Having more copies of Sneak means you can be much more aggressive with casting them. You've gone from 6 game enders (4 sneak 2 nahiri) down to 3, which makes the deck just way worse at reliability presenting a threat.
- I don't like Huntmaster and Rhino. The two guys aren't dangerous enough to end the game on their own, you don't have the critical mass of midrange threats for them to be relevant. If you're zenithing, if you need pressure you can get Empath into a monster which is less likely to get Pushed or outclassed and more likely to end the game, and if you need to stabilize Thragtusk just does the job better. Making midrange dudes just doesn't do enough to advance our game plan imo.
-Ooze is a good card.
-If you don't want to dilute the combo deck by going to 61 cards why are you diluting the combo deck by removing copies of the primary combo piece? Cutting a Sneak Attack reduces your combo consistency by way more than adding a 61st card.
- City of Solitude is fine even in valuetown. If it resolves it's an x-for1 where x is the number of counters and stifles they draw that game, which is usually pretty solid. It gets killed by enchantment removal, but then they have less answers to Sneak Attack. Sideboard looked fine otherwise - I don't think Nahiri is as good game 2 and 3 since against Nic Fit more answers to planeswalkers will be brought in by most decks if they have them. If you're sideboarding Inferno Titan in against go-wide decks you may as well have Massacre Wurm instead since it does better there. Titan is better in the maindeck because it's a faster clock against other decks where Wurm is just a 6/5, but that matters less when it's only being sideboarded in when it's being a sweeper.

[fireiced]

- Adding Decay is fine. I don't agree with cutting Nahiri though. Going into four color hits your consistency and if you aren't playing the good payoff cards you might as well stay in three colours. Swords is nice but it's not so much better than Innocent Blood to make the splash worth it. Nahiri adds a completely new angle of attack.
- Dropping Inferno Titan feels terrible. Against STP decks he isn't what you search up anyway (unless you can sweep DnT) so he's only a problem if you draw him naturally, whereas against other decks he is a powerful sweeper, and by having one copy in the deck against Miracles you get eight copies against Elves. Getting Primeval Titan STPed is pretty bad too, towers mean any new threats are good but it's not like he got you anywhere either and he's garbage everywhere else.
- Threatening is all well and good but being able to slam threats and force your opponent to answer them is similarly powerful and actually wins you the game some of the time. Having more copies of Sneak means you can be much more aggressive with casting them. You've gone from 6 game enders (4 sneak 2 nahiri) down to 3, which makes the deck just way worse at reliability presenting a threat.
- I don't like Huntmaster and Rhino. The two guys aren't dangerous enough to end the game on their own, you don't have the critical mass of midrange threats for them to be relevant. If you're zenithing, if you need pressure you can get Empath into a monster which is less likely to get Pushed or outclassed and more likely to end the game, and if you need to stabilize Thragtusk just does the job better. Making midrange dudes just doesn't do enough to advance our game plan imo.
-Ooze is a good card.
-If you don't want to dilute the combo deck by going to 61 cards why are you diluting the combo deck by removing copies of the primary combo piece? Cutting a Sneak Attack reduces your combo consistency by way more than adding a 61st card.
- City of Solitude is fine even in valuetown. If it resolves it's an x-for1 where x is the number of counters and stifles they draw that game, which is usually pretty solid. It gets killed by enchantment removal, but then they have less answers to Sneak Attack. Sideboard looked fine otherwise - I don't think Nahiri is as good game 2 and 3 since against Nic Fit more answers to planeswalkers will be brought in by most decks if they have them. If you're sideboarding Inferno Titan in against go-wide decks you may as well have Massacre Wurm instead since it does better there. Titan is better in the maindeck because it's a faster clock against other decks where Wurm is just a 6/5, but that matters less when it's only being sideboarded in when it's being a sweeper.

- Did I use Nahiri wrongly? I mostly use her as a 4 cc removal. She sucks when I want to remove that Blood Moon.
- I see your argument on Huntmaster and Rhino. No doubt they do great work vs UR Delver, RUG Delver and Burn. Rhino is sweet to bridge the gap to >5 mana. Players in my area mostly know how to play against Nic Fit at the moment and Rhino thus far has been stellar with his beefy body and 6 life point swing. Huntmaster is the most lackluster atm I will see to changing him.
- Do not seem to have any problem with Elves or DnT. Could be play patterns or opponent expertise with deck? Especially so for Elf.
- Cause Ooze is king.
- I think the argument for full set of combo piece can be likened to pure UR Twin vs Grixis Twin (really cant think of a good Legacy analogy). I feel you are on the pure Izzet route while I rather poke and scratch to win. Long story short, your Plan A is Sneak Combo mine is Valuetown and vice versa for Plan B.
- I have only 1 Nissa in my mb and the most common walker removal I meet is either Needle/Revoker or Counterspells. I like your Massacre Wurm idea.

Appreciate your response Navsi. Really see that the to and fro discussions here actually challenge bias in card selection. (I kinda forced Huntmaster as I got sweet Korean Foil of him :tongue:)

[cavalrywolfpack]

Welcome back!

As for builds, or what to get first, saving towards a set of Verdant Catacombs is never a bad plan. Any version of Nic Fit will want 4 of those (and nets you some more time to make up your mind).



That 1 turn can be the difference between life and death.
I'm probably going to be playing on Cockatrice for a while until I finish building Miracles, so cost is irrelevant for now. I'm probably going to start with Abzan because I'm more familiar with it, and I'm just starting to update my list. I'll post it later today if I get the chance.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Echelon]

Looking forward to it!

[Navsi]

- Did I use Nahiri wrongly? I mostly use her as a 4 cc removal. She sucks when I want to remove that Blood Moon.
- I see your argument on Huntmaster and Rhino. No doubt they do great work vs UR Delver, RUG Delver and Burn. Rhino is sweet to bridge the gap to >5 mana. Players in my area mostly know how to play against Nic Fit at the moment and Rhino thus far has been stellar with his beefy body and 6 life point swing. Huntmaster is the most lackluster atm I will see to changing him.
- Do not seem to have any problem with Elves or DnT. Could be play patterns or opponent expertise with deck? Especially so for Elf.
- Cause Ooze is king.
- I think the argument for full set of combo piece can be likened to pure UR Twin vs Grixis Twin (really cant think of a good Legacy analogy). I feel you are on the pure Izzet route while I rather poke and scratch to win. Long story short, your Plan A is Sneak Combo mine is Valuetown and vice versa for Plan B.
- I have only 1 Nissa in my mb and the most common walker removal I meet is either Needle/Revoker or Counterspells. I like your Massacre Wurm idea.

Appreciate your response Navsi. Really see that the to and fro discussions here actually challenge bias in card selection. (I kinda forced Huntmaster as I got sweet Korean Foil of him :tongue:)

Nahiri is ok as removal if you need it, but if you aren't under immediate pressure, ticking Nahiri up gives your opponent one turn to make a creature / two turns to find a haste guy or a removal spell, or they get killed by Emrakul. If your opponent has a Blood Moon and isn't actively attacking you, I'd happily start ticking her up and let the Moon stay there.
- Rhino is an ok stabilizer but he never really impresses me. A 6 point life swing is a good way of putting it, but the life loss half of that isn't particularly relevant since most of the time the opponent dies in a single massive swing anyway. I would probably run the second Thragtusk before a Rhino, but if you are worried about the mana he's an option.
- Elves are pretty scary. DnT is even ish, but Inferno helps a lot there too - if they Swords him before he attacks, he's still often a 3-for-1 and six life, which isn't bad even if you're way behind on mana.
- Sneak Attack is such a powerful plan (game 1 especially) that it feel pretty unintuitive to jam it and its support in the deck and then not commit to it. Like, you can sometimes jam a Rhino and ride it to victory, but if that Rhino was a copy of Sneak instead, then you have ~8 cards in your deck that cause you to immediately win the game if you draw them, and they're a lot harder to interact with than a Rhino.
- Usually if there's Needles, Revokers or Maelstrom Pulse / Council's Judgment in people's sideboards, they come in against us. Our walkers are more likely to survive in game 1 when they get more out of dodging Decays and Swords.

[fireiced]

Nahiri is ok as removal if you need it, but if you aren't under immediate pressure, ticking Nahiri up gives your opponent one turn to make a creature / two turns to find a haste guy or a removal spell, or they get killed by Emrakul. If your opponent has a Blood Moon and isn't actively attacking you, I'd happily start ticking her up and let the Moon stay there.
- Rhino is an ok stabilizer but he never really impresses me. A 6 point life swing is a good way of putting it, but the life loss half of that isn't particularly relevant since most of the time the opponent dies in a single massive swing anyway. I would probably run the second Thragtusk before a Rhino, but if you are worried about the mana he's an option.
- Elves are pretty scary. DnT is even ish, but Inferno helps a lot there too - if they Swords him before he attacks, he's still often a 3-for-1 and six life, which isn't bad even if you're way behind on mana.
- Sneak Attack is such a powerful plan (game 1 especially) that it feel pretty unintuitive to jam it and its support in the deck and then not commit to it. Like, you can sometimes jam a Rhino and ride it to victory, but if that Rhino was a copy of Sneak instead, then you have ~8 cards in your deck that cause you to immediately win the game if you draw them, and they're a lot harder to interact with than a Rhino.
- Usually if there's Needles, Revokers or Maelstrom Pulse / Council's Judgment in people's sideboards, they come in against us. Our walkers are more likely to survive in game 1 when they get more out of dodging Decays and Swords.

You got me there, I guess I will swap the Huntmaster for the Nahiri. Will try it out :cool:

[Brael]

That 1 turn can be the difference between life and death.

True, but if you play it on T3 or T4 that's still a T6 win. That's a faster clock than any other win we have outside of Sneak Attack.

[Navsi]

True, but if you play it on T3 or T4 that's still a T6 win. That's a faster clock than any other win we have outside of Sneak Attack.

Scapeshift for Valakut is probably also faster. Turn 3 Rhino, Turn 4 Rhino is only 2 damage behind Turn 3 Scapeshift for Depths.

I think the big problem is that you're tapping out two turns in a row for the plan, and an opponent going undisrupted for that long is probably going to kill you. Anyone who doesn't interact with you enough to deal with Marit Lage is going to be killing you before turn five, or at least landing something that Marit Lage doesn't deal with.

[Arianrhod]

You need a really compelling reason to play Scapeshift over Sneak Attack at this point if you want a combo-based Jund variant. Sneak does the same thing faster, better, with more open slots, and with better backup plans. The concept is still playable, but it's a solid tier under Sneak in my opinion.

The only update to my Sneak list at the moment has been to finally cut Meren from the maindeck. I've swapped the Tracker into the main and moved Meren to the board, because there are still matchups (Eldrazi comes immediately to mind) where Meren just auto-wins the game by herself. Tracker has basically the same run-away potential, but he runs away against more decks and has a better failcase, and being tutorable by Bellower is relevant.

As fond as I am of Nahiri as a card, I don't think I'm on board with stretching Sneak to four colors. The deck doesn't need any additional payoff.

If you want to mess with that concept, I think there's something to be said for some kind of Naya Lightsaber style deck. Something including these cards:

4 Birds of Paradise
xx fatties
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
3 Sneak Attack
3-4 Punishing Fire

4 Ancient Tomb
3-4 Grove of the Burnwillows

The idea being that you have a million ways to get 3 mana on turn 2 between a dork (I say Birds because red source, but could easily be something else) or Ancient Tomb, and if you have land+dork into tomb, that lets you play a 4-drop on turn 2.

I have no idea where that particular rabbit hole goes, other than not in this thread (maybe a naya version of Sylvan Plug? Dragon stompy without the moons?). But basically I think that if you want to do Nahiri things (which, again, I do endorse -- the card is nuts), Nic Fit isn't really the home for her.

EDIT: Also, feed me some updated Nyx Fit lists. I'm going to proxy it up and take it for a spin at my local in a week just for something different to do.

[square_two]

EDIT: Also, feed me some updated Nyx Fit lists. I'm going to proxy it up and take it for a spin at my local in a week just for something different to do.

Think this is close to the "latest" version, from Navsi on page 19.

Recruiter of the Guard is latest tech and it grabs Vet, Witness, Aegis, Spirit, and of course, Rector. I'm in the middle of a league right now with it (1-1 so far) with the changes of -1 Brutality +1 Decay, -1 Skybind +1 Starfield, -1 Cavern +1 Forest. I didn't want to spend 6 tix on a 2nd Brutality, and Decay seems too good not to remove completely. I lost to Nahiricles and have a win against Zombardment. I'll try to finish up soon.

My sideboard has 2 City of Solitude, Courser removed. 1 Thoughtseize in place of the sideboard Spirit.

Part of me wonders if 2 Brutalities should just be Swords to Plowshares? Deck still lacks early interaction. Possibly exchange Chromanticore for a 3rd Swords, I haven't played much with Chromanticore yet. Think the loss of Chromanticore for much better early interaction with stuff could be worth it. We don't care about opponent having life.

I also really want an Eidolon of Blossoms as a GSZ target...not sure what would get the cut for it though. Haven't gotten much reps with Nyx Weaver but others report he is good.

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Nyx Weaver
1 Eternal Witness
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Academy Rector
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Chromanticore

3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Collective Brutality
1 Nissa, Vital Force

3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sterling Grove
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Skybind (he reported that it probably isn't strong enough)
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Living Plane
1 Parallax Wave

3 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats

Sideboard:
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Humility
1 Seal of Primordium
1 City of Solitude
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Courser of Kruphix
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Leyline of the Void

Edit: Can continue to confirm that people don't realize that Rector can be stopped with a DRS activation. Keep seeing people not leave up green mana and untapped Deathrite when they know I have Rector available...

[battousai555]

Hey there, fellers. I was wondering if I could get some sideboarding advice for Burn and Shardless. I know both should be favorable, but I'm still super new to the deck. I'm playing one of Mitchell Stephenson's lists:

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Eternal Witness
4 Siege Rhino
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Vindicate

3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay

3 Pernicious Deed

3 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
2 Nissa, Vital Force

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold

sb::
3 Thoughtseize
3 Lost Legacy
2 Surgical Extraction
1 To the Slaughter
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Painful Truths
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

For Burn I was thinking Nissa comes out because she's so slow, and Golgari Charm comes in for Eidolon and Sulfuric Vortex, but I'm not sure what else. For Shardless I've been doing -4 Cabal Therapy, +1 To the Slaughter (Jace is a punk), +1 Painful Truths, +1 Golgari Charm (Strix is kind of annoying, but I'm not sure if they warrant a SB card), +1 Elspeth. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Matsu]

Hi Guys,

First post here, but long time reader.

I will introduce myself first.
I started to play MtG in the Rath block and finished when they changed the frame to modern (just before Mirrodin block).
Me and my little brother did not like the changes and moved to another game, which was more entertaining (L5R).
At the end after more than 10 years I moved to another country and no one played it here.
So I decided I will give a try again to MtG. I came back at the release of Khans of Tarkir and where mostly drafting with some success.
I manage to build a modern deck to have some constructed fun (blue Tron), but did not intend to explore this further.
Couple of month ago some people started to play Legacy in my LGS, so I decided to have a look to this forum and after checking my old binders I realize I still have some staples.
So I build NicFit, which is similar to the last deck I played in the good old Extended (Type1.5):smile:
I played those decks back in the days: Suicide Black, WU Stasis, UG Opposition and Recurring/Survival. My brother on the other side was always on RED :P Sligh and Goblins.
The deck I played the most where Recurring/Survival it was a 4 colour deck with a possible oops I win finisher in the form of Pandemonium/saprolling burst.
So I decided I will give a shot to NicFit.
After reading a lot of posts in this forum and watching some youtube games, I bought some cards and went to my first Legacy tournament.

Battle Report 1.
We played 3 rounds, I do not know the field, so my sideboard is full of random stuff.

First Battle:
4c Blade:
Game 1
I am mana screwed on plains and island. I quickly die to TNN with Jitte. Nothing to say, I still have the edge my opponent does not know what I am playing.
Game 2
I start with forest into Dryad Arbor from Green sun’s zenith.
He plays shaman from a Underground Sea
I go swamp into Shaman and catch a daze.
He goes all in -> Underground sea, Stoneforge + Batterskull.
In my turn I top deck Phyrexian tower. Veteran Explorer use tower, then Cabal Therapy for Batterskull (hit) then Painful truths. Drew a second Cabal Therapy, play it, name Abrupt decay (2hit). Good Turn :tongue:
He has an empty hand, plays a Tropical Island, pass.
I have a full grip, fetch a Bayou, Green sun’s zenith for Sigarda. I leave a plains untapped for Path to exile.
He surrenders.
Game 3
I do not remember much of this game. With Cabal Therapy I kill his blades. We both have huge amount of mana he cast Nahiri Lithomancy. I play Nissa, Vital force. Then reset the board twice with Pernicious deed. We go to time. I have all my lands in play Nissa at 6, he has Nahiri at 5 with batterskull in play. Both in top deck mode.

Sideboard:
Pithing needle
Toxic deluge
Gaddock teeg

Second Battle:
W/G Enchantress
So I remember I had an enchantress deck years ago with words of wind/cloud of fairies and ambassador Laquatus as a win condition.
Game 1
He delays my attacked and development with his enchantments.
I manage to put him on 4 life with Siege rhino in play. So one swing and I am in. He draws a dozen cards and plays elephant grass, rest in peace, emrakul, helm of obedience. Game over.
Game 2
I mulligan to six.
I slow him down with Gaddock teeg killing his Argothian Enchantress during a swing.
I manage to cast Lost Legacy naming rest in peace and a second copy naming Emrakul. Now I have to draw pernicious deed to clean the board and put some pressure on him.
He plays sigil of the empty throne. I draw abrupt decay for his elephant grass and die to a horde of angel.

Sideboard:
12 cards to stop him did not work. I had some clunky draws and completely did not know how to play against it.

Third Battle:
BR Reanimator.
Game 1
He starts and goes Bloodcrypt into entomb a Grizzlybrand and I know I am trouble.
I have a good hand, so I have some chances. I fetch a Bayou and Veteran Explorer hits the table, he reads it carefully and says “OK”.
He Thoughtseize my path to exile and Thoughtseize his Sire of insanity, pass.
I play phyrexian tower, swing for one, use tower fetch 2 forests and Green sun zenith for scavenging ooze, eat both his big guys.
He draws a land I eat Veteran Explorer and proceed to kill my opponent. He drew reanimate but cannot use it (no targets).
Game 2
He mullingan to 5. He goes swamp into entomb a Grizzlybrand.
I go fetch, bayou, pithing needle on Grizzlybrand.
He thouthseize me twice killing surgical extraction and path to exile.
I Cabal therapy naming exhume (miss). He has two lands and two removal spells. I cast Lost Legacy naming chancellor of the annex (another miss) he does not play it.
He draws faithless looting, cast it, discard Iona and animate dead her, naming green. I cannot cast my Nissa, Vital force. He kills me in 3 turns. GG.
Game 3
I was tiered and after work and made some mistakes during side boarding.
He reanimate turn 2 Grizzlybrand.
Turn 3 I cast Leovold, emissary of Trest. Too late the damage was done, I did not draw path to exile and he kills me in 3 turns.

Sideboard:
Pithing needle
Surgical extraction
Lost Legacy
Maybe duress I do not remember.

Overall I ended 0-1-2 and I am really happy with this score. First time legacy and I did not play MtG for 4 month, because of workload.

I still love GB control J

Battle report 2.
I know the field and after doing a couple of other 0-2-1 I finally know how to play the deck properly.
3 rounds weekly tournament

First Battle:
Elves 1:2
Game 1
He thinks I am on elves I open Bayou + Deathrite Shaman. He build his board quickly, Visonary, DA, crop rotation for Cradle, the bounce elf, some 1 mana guys.
I know this is my last turn and go pernicious for 1, as expected he bounce his visionary. Left with only Cradle I do not cast explorer, an go therapy for Natural order into Stoneforge mystic+batterskull. Kill him quickly
Game 2 and 3 he just go off before I can do anything. Game 3 I hit a NO with therapy he top deck a second copy :smile:

Sideboard:
Surgical extraction
Lost Legacy
Duress
Golgari charm
Toxic deluge
Teeg

Second Battle:
Belcher 2:1
Game 1
He plays Lotus petal and pass, so I assume he is on some sort of combo. I go bayou+deathrite shaman he goes off and kill me with burning wish into tendrils.
Game2
Mulligan to 6. Bayou+ therapy naming belcher (hit). he plays LED. I go explorer pass. he goes off and put 10 goblins into play. I Abrupt Decay one goblin. Block the second one.
I take the hit go to 12. I play a deathrite shaman. He swings again eat one goblin take 8 dmg and go to 4. I play my batterskull and stabilize the board. Next turn I top deck toxic deluge.
Game 3
I mulligan to 6 go swamp therapy naming belcher (hit, lucky me). He draws some fast mana. I play savannah and pass. He goes off, I abrupt decay his chrome mox he fizzles one mana short J. We start a draw go and I am stuck on big guys and 2 lands. I kept a slow hand with early disruption. I finally manage to reach 4 mana with 3 lands and a Shaman and play Siege Rhino. He goes off again fizzle not drawing any kill condition. I kill him with siege rhino before he rebuilds he hand.

Sideboard:
Surgical extraction
Lost Legacy
Duress
Pithing needle
Golgari charm
Toxic deluge
Teeg

Third Battle:
Enchantress 1:1
Game 1
He has double white leyline and helm of obedience me on turn 6.
Game 2
I reset the board with pernicious deeds and discard/abrupt decay his draw effects. Kill him with Rhino.
Game 3
I reset the board he plays humility turning his argothain enchantress into threat, same with my leovold and my shamans. I manage to cast a batterskull which is a 5/5 :tongue: I put some pressure on him but solitaire stops me. I finally draw another deed to reset the field keep only batterskull in play. He rebuild the board quickly. I cabal therapy for sigil of the empty throne, see Emrakul. He can cast it next turn.
Kill my germ and discard emrakul, he shuffles around 30 cards into his deck. We go to time he just drew a replenish.

Sideboard:
Surgical extraction
Lost Legacy
Duress
Pithing needle
Rec sage
Golgari charm
Teeg

Overall I ended 1-1-1

Battle report 3.
I change my deck every week slowly tuning it into my meta and my playstyle.
4 rounds weekly tournament, a lot of new people.

First Battle:
Goblins 2:0
Game 1
Turn two stoneforge into batterskull closed the game quickly.
Game 2
Pernicious and cabal therapy remove his whole hand and board. I then play stoneforge into Jitte, and slowly control him to the win.

Sideboard:
Golgari charm
Toxic deluge

Second Battle:
UR delver a new guy 0:2
Game 1
He burns me quickly with double bolt and price of progress for 6
Game 2
I made a mistake and did not discard his bedlam reveller when I could (had to sacrifice deathrite shaman). He plays it and burns me again. Still learning.

Sideboard:
Duress
Teeg

Third Battle:
BR reanimator 0:2
Game 1
He turn one kills me.
Game 2
My opponent mullingan to 5, I go to 6 and go bayou into therapy naming reanimate (hit). he has entombed/dark ritual/ grizzlybrand. He draws a land, plays it.
I have 2 lands, green sun, cabal in graveyard. He is on top deck mode, so I go vet explorer cabal therapy (I do not know if this was the right choice), he responds with Dark ritual/entombed+grizzlybrand I discard his grizzlybrand, play stoneforge into batterskull. He top deck exhume, draws a tons of cards, bounces my board with the blue flier and kills me.

Sideboard:
Surgical extraction
Lost Legacy
Duress
Pithing needle

Fourth Battle:
Twin+exarch 2:1 (draw)
Game 1
He turn 4 combokill me.
Game 2
I slowly kill him. He cannot go off because I have jitte with two counters to stop his exarch. Finish him with Sigarda.
Game 3
An early Leovold stops his cantrips. I put a pressure on him, the game is very grindy. We go to time, he surrender when I play sigarda. He has only 4 exarch in his deck (Lost legacy for splinter twin and Jace,TMS, snaps killed during battles against Rhino and other big guys)

Sideboard:
Surgical extraction
Lost Legacy
Duress
Pithing needle
Carpet of flowers
Teeg

Overall I ended 2-2-0 (1-2-1)


Battle report 4
I think I have a final version of my deck. Which suits my playstyle.
3 rounds

First Battle:
Death and Taxes 2:0
Game 1
Pernicious deeds for 4 to kill all his board, it leaves Sigarda in play. Fly to the win.
Game 2
I cabal therapy his hand removing batterskull after he stoneforge for it. flash back therapy and hit 3 thalia. Kill his board with deeds, play siege rhino and trample to the win :laugh:

Sideboard:
Golgari charm
Toxic deluge

Second Battle:
Bant blade 1:2 (draw)
Game 1
He plays Jace after I reset the board with deeds. I quickly die to his chains of brainstorms into TNN.
Game 2
I play correctly deed the board and kill him with batterskull
Game 3
Very long and grindy game, we go to time. Made a mistake at the end which will result to a draw instead of his win. I was tired after work and had to pee.

I hate Jace and TNN, they are so difficult to remove from the game.

Sideboard:
Golgari charm
Toxic deluge
Carpet of flowers
Pithing Needle
Rec sage
Duress

Third battle:
BR reanimator 2:1
Game 1
He kills me turn 1
Game 2
We both mulligan to 6. I keep a hand with lands and Scavenging ooze 7 turn later he is on 6 I eat my explorer he goes to 3. I green sun for rhino :laugh: love this play.
Game 3
He mull to 5 keep and keep a good no land hand. I fetch+bayou+shaman but have no pressure so I play tower, sac shaman, green sun for Ooze leaving green open. End of his turn eat my shaman. On my turn I go Plains+stoneforge into batterskull. He draws a land finally, but wait to reanimate because of ooze. I play batterskull with stoneforge. Pressure him, he draws petal. On my turn I cabal therapy my mystic name reanimate, swing. Next turn eat mystic and finish him :laugh:

Sideboard:
Surgical extraction
Lost Legacy
Duress
Pithing needle

Overall I ended 2-1-0 (2-0-1)

Blade Fit:

1 dryad arbor
2 deathrite shaman
4 veteran explorer
3 stoneforge mystic
1 glissa
1 leovold
1 eternal witness
1 siege rhino
1 thragtusk
1 Sigarda

1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Nissa, vital force
1 Elspeth, sun’s champion

3 sensei’s divining top
1 Umezawa’s jitte
1 batterskull

3 pernicious deeds

4 cabal therapy
4 green sun zenith
3 path to exile
2 abrupt decay

2 bayou
1 savannah
1 scrubland
1 Phyrexian tower
4 windswept heath
4 polluted delta
2 swamp
3 forest
2 plains
1 island

Side:

1 scavenging ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 duress
1 toxic deluge
2 lost legacy
2 pithing needle
1 reclamation sage
2 golgari charm
1 carpet of flowers
1 surgical extraction

Some explanation, about the deck:
I started with 4 rhinos, but it did not work for me.
Kaya was good, but most of the time I used her -2 and she died next turn. Giving me only a fog.
I played Gideon ally of zen. Was not impressed.
Sakura tribe elder worked fine with 4 rhinos + blue splash, but I need a better top deck in the mid game, switched to another copy of deathrite shaman.
Atraxa completely useless, waste of money and mana, if I will have to pick another card (except the one copy Leovold) for the blue splash with one blue mana I will go for Sagu Mauler maybe Edric or another Leovold.
Moved from 2 stoneforge mystic to 3 copies, after playtests.
I think jitte and batterskull are sufficient. If I will have to pick another blade I will go for sword of body and mind or light and shadow.
I reduced the path to exile number to 3 after adding jitte.
The decks attacks the enemy from a different angle.
You force you opponent to add artefact removals and waste their best cards on Mystic. Instead of keeping good counterspells/removals for the big cards.
I was surprise by Glissa especially with the weapons.

When I was playing 4 Rhinos I had some clunky opening most of the time it was
Turn 1: Land + cabal therapy
Turn 2: Land + explorer
Which left me with 2 or 3 mana open I could only green sun zenith for shaman, ooze, sakura elder, teeg to pressure my opponent and establish the board state or play a 3 mana card form my hand. It was good if I had Leovold-> instant value. To mitigate this I played 2 Phyrexian tower.
Now I can still zenith for shaman, but turn 2 mystic + batterskull instantly trigger panic mode. Especially after a successful cabal therapy. And even if they remove the Mystic wasting abrupt decay/fatal push/swords to plowshares. I most of the time can play it next turn for 5 mana and still pressure my opponent.

I have a huge problem with Jace, the mind sculptor and TNN.
For Jace I have Pithing needle, but then they build the board and I cannot trigger Deeds.
For TNN I plan to add 2 engineered plague useful against merfolks, clerics, elves, pyromancers, goblins.

Elspeth might go out of the deck for another card probably ooze/rec sage or going back to 60 cards. So far she was very useful.
I will give a try to Volrath’s stronghold probably for a Polluted delta.
Glissa might be the second card to go.

My meta:
1 Bant Blade
2 BR reanimator
1 Eldrazi
1 4c delver
1 Maverick
2 Elves
2 Storm
1 Death and Taxes
1 Goblins
2 Enchantress
1 4c Loam
1 UR counter burn
1 Belcher
1 Burn
1 Grixis Thief

Thoughts:
I was really impressed by the success of Snic Fit, but not my style of play. Why not play the red Gearhulk? 6/6 and draw 3 or 6/6 shoot you for 15 thx to Emi o_O
Did anyone tried a Nic Fit control with ”oops I win” option like: Spike feeder + archangel of Thune (eldritch evolution), pandemonium + saprolling burst (rector/nyx fit) or Yosei + recurring nightmare(rector/nyx fit)?

I was extremely impressed with the GB build that went top 8 recently. The one with Hymn to Tourach and Liliana. The deck is very well build, you attack your opponents hand when you can still abuse eternal witness or meren. Very well constructed deck, I will add Nissa vital force and volrath’s stronghold to recover more cards from the graveyard. I think this is the deck to go. I saw the stream online and the deck looks really strong.

Omni Fit looks funny, but very clunky.

Sorry for the wall of text, mistakes, other errors.

If you have questions I will try to answer.

Good luck.

[Lueseto]

I was impressed by that list too, seems consistent. Yet, what surprised me the most is how it contradicted many of the primer's tips:

- It runs Dryad Arbor
- It runs 3 Hymn to Tourach
- It runs Liliana of the Veil
- It runs Sylvan Library and no Tops

What I interpreted is that, despite omitting these tips, the list is so straightforward that it gains a lot of consistency. I would like more debate on Hymn to Tourach because from my testing it gives place to some wicked openings. If you add Hymn to an Explorer+Therapy hand, you've got a nearly hellbent opponent by turn 2 for sure. And when you don't draw Therapy, it gives you a much needed way of forcing interaction T2.

Also the argument against Sylvan Library (that it dies to Deed) applies to Scooze too, for example, and we still play it most of the time. The fact that it isn't as mana demanding as Top on the long run is pretty big in my opinion. Plus if you can pay 4 life for a card once, you come out fine even after blowing it with Deed. I'm not saying I wouldn't run tops because later in the game, you can shuffle your deck multiple times per turn and Top is really big. It's just that I feel that early one the deck cannot afford to be spinning it because our forms of interaction are more expensive than, say, Miracles'.

I love Titania, Protector of Argoth too, and I remember watching Caleb Durward playing it in straight BG in some YouTube videos and it being hell of a clock.

List for reference:

4 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills

16 CREATURES
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
2 Grave Titan
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
4 Veteran Explorer

16 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Snuff Out

6 OTHER SPELLS
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library

SIDEBOARD
1 Golgari Charm
1 Kitchen Finks
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Nature's Claim
1 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize
1 Thragtusk
1 Umezawa's Jitte

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14911&d=289997&f=LE

[square_two]

Thoughts:
I was really impressed by the success of Snic Fit, but not my style of play. Why not play the red Gearhulk? 6/6 and draw 3 or 6/6 shoot you for 15 thx to Emi o_O
Did anyone tried a Nic Fit control with ”oops I win” option like: Spike feeder + archangel of Thune (eldritch evolution), pandemonium + saprolling burst (rector/nyx fit) or Yosei + recurring nightmare(rector/nyx fit)?


Welcome :)

I don't see Red Gearhulk being very good in Sneak Fit. We don't have a large number of top heavy cmc threats like Big Red does. Most likely, after you've played the Gearhulk, there are 2 other 6 drops + 1 Emrakul. Flipping land, top, Veteran doesn't have much impact. Slamming Inferno Titan, on the other hand, has some pretty guaranteed impact not only on the turn he comes down but on the following turns as well. Sneaking him in typically does 6 points of precision damage along with 6+red mana combat damage. Bellower likewise has both consistency (grabbing Tracker/Witness for value) or combo-kill grabbing Empath -> Emrakul.

The recent Nyx Fit lists already have some pretty consistent combo-kill, in the form of -1/-1 effect + Living Plane. Deck has access to some powerful enchantment effects that alone will turn the tide in most matches. Really need to steer away from singletons that don't do anything on their own, and that deck comes pretty close as-is. Eldritch Evolving the Rector does sound nice, but it often would give your opponent the chance to Swords the Rector or have a DRS ready - since you typically don't have 7 mana available to cast both the Rector and Evolution on the same turn. I'd rather rely on the faster and simpler Therapy or Phyrexian Tower ways of tutoring with her.

[Navsi]

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Nyx Weaver
1 Eternal Witness
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Academy Rector
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Chromanticore

3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Collective Brutality
1 Nissa, Vital Force

3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sterling Grove
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Skybind (he reported that it probably isn't strong enough)
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Living Plane
1 Parallax Wave

3 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats

Sideboard:
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Humility
1 Seal of Primordium
1 City of Solitude
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Courser of Kruphix
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Leyline of the Void

Edit: Can continue to confirm that people don't realize that Rector can be stopped with a DRS activation. Keep seeing people not leave up green mana and untapped Deathrite when they know I have Rector available...

I'm currently on this list as above, -1 Skybind +1 Nissa VF.

[Brael]

I was impressed by that list too, seems consistent. Yet, what surprised me the most is how it contradicted many of the primer's tips:

- It runs Dryad Arbor
- It runs 3 Hymn to Tourach
- It runs Liliana of the Veil
- It runs Sylvan Library and no Tops

What I interpreted is that, despite omitting these tips, the list is so straightforward that it gains a lot of consistency. I would like more debate on Hymn to Tourach because from my testing it gives place to some wicked openings. If you add Hymn to an Explorer+Therapy hand, you've got a nearly hellbent opponent by turn 2 for sure. And when you don't draw Therapy, it gives you a much needed way of forcing interaction T2.

Also the argument against Sylvan Library (that it dies to Deed) applies to Scooze too, for example, and we still play it most of the time. The fact that it isn't as mana demanding as Top on the long run is pretty big in my opinion. Plus if you can pay 4 life for a card once, you come out fine even after blowing it with Deed. I'm not saying I wouldn't run tops because later in the game, you can shuffle your deck multiple times per turn and Top is really big. It's just that I feel that early one the deck cannot afford to be spinning it because our forms of interaction are more expensive than, say, Miracles'.

Lots to talk about here. I'll start with Hymn. The reason Hymn isn't usually suggested is because it requires BB, this forces you to have a Bayou opening if you want to cast something like Veteran Explorer. Even a GG spell like Courser or Eternal Witness or Ooze (to activate) forces you into the Bayou. If you open on Forest for resiliency against Wasteland, you lose the ability to cast Hymn.

Next is Dryad Arbor. It's a controversial card, I think Arbor is actually really strong though because it greatly increases the range of opening hands you can keep by adding another 4 mana sources to the deck early with GSZ. Others argue that Arbor is too fragile and slow. I'm not saying the card doesn't have risks attached but what I've noticed about Nic Fit (and more broadly, Legacy in general) is that it's a format of fragile mana bases, and the person who has the more resilient/consistent manabase wins more on average. In a deck like ours with high cost cards and little to no cantrips we can't afford to not have the extra mana.

Liliana is powerful but generally not advised. There have been builds where she's good such as in the PW heavy decks. In this list in question I don't think she was very good, and it's more that the list won inspite of itself rather than won because Liliana was the right call.

Sylvan Library though can work. I don't play Library often but I think it's a really good card. It used to see more play than it does these days. Dying to Deed isn't usually an issue because you get value off of it before Deed blows it up. The main difference is that the format has gotten more aggressive and the life loss matters more. Add in other cards which cost life like Toxic Deluge and Bob (if you're as crazy as me) and we just don't have the life to spare as much anymore.

[Brael]

Scapeshift for Valakut is probably also faster. Turn 3 Rhino, Turn 4 Rhino is only 2 damage behind Turn 3 Scapeshift for Depths.

I think the big problem is that you're tapping out two turns in a row for the plan, and an opponent going undisrupted for that long is probably going to kill you. Anyone who doesn't interact with you enough to deal with Marit Lage is going to be killing you before turn five, or at least landing something that Marit Lage doesn't deal with.

Perhaps. I'm already locked in on my current league so I can't try it out for awhile (beyond maybe a few test games on xmage). It is on my to do list though, which means I'll try to get to it sometime in the next 6 months. If the Dark Depths plan doesn't work, I think the pure value plan might. Between Tracker, Courser, and Gitrog, I think Scapeshift could function as a way to build the Two Towers combo while simultaneously assembling a whole bunch of value. I guess the question is, where would we want that type of value? I think I've already answered the "Why not just Valakut instead?" question, in that Valakut doesn't have as solid a manabase, and has to devote a whole bunch of slots to the combo where as this is just incidental value that goes with everything you're already playing.

[emuhell]

Perhaps. I'm already locked in on my current league so I can't try it out for awhile (beyond maybe a few test games on xmage). It is on my to do list though, which means I'll try to get to it sometime in the next 6 months. If the Dark Depths plan doesn't work, I think the pure value plan might. Between Tracker, Courser, and Gitrog, I think Scapeshift could function as a way to build the Two Towers combo while simultaneously assembling a whole bunch of value. I guess the question is, where would we want that type of value? I think I've already answered the "Why not just Valakut instead?" question, in that Valakut doesn't have as solid a manabase, and has to devote a whole bunch of slots to the combo where as this is just incidental value that goes with everything you're already playing.

If your goal is to grind out value with Scapeshift, also take Lotus Cobra into consideration. A card that doesn't fit too badly into the general game plan and that lets you cast a follow-up to that otherwise very unsatisfying play.

Also there are lands that are better in multiples - e.g. 4 Cloudpost threatening a hardcast Emrakul or another Eldrazi?

Which brings me to GB<>. Already playing lots of <> lands (Phyrexian Tower, Thespian's Stage, Volrath's Stronghold, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost) this deck could make use of some of the fierce Overlords easily and with Scapeshift having a valid way to ramp into early Kozilek, the Great Distortion or Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger.
Don't forget Thought Knot Seer!

[Brael]

If your goal is to grind out value with Scapeshift, also take Lotus Cobra into consideration. A card that doesn't fit too badly into the general game plan and that lets you cast a follow-up to that otherwise very unsatisfying play.

Also there are lands that are better in multiples - e.g. 4 Cloudpost threatening a hardcast Emrakul or another Eldrazi?

Which brings me to GB<>. Already playing lots of <> lands (Phyrexian Tower, Thespian's Stage, Volrath's Stronghold, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost) this deck could make use of some of the fierce Overlords easily and with Scapeshift having a valid way to ramp into early Kozilek, the Great Distortion or Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger.
Don't forget Thought Knot Seer!

Adding colorless brings you back to a fragile manabase, and tips you back into Valakut territory. There's much better ways to assemble ramp with colorless, such as MUD.

I've considered Lotus Cobra, but I'm not yet convinced it's what I'm looking for. Tracker, Titania, and Gitrog are great with Scapeshift from a value standpoint. Courser is ok just as incidental value. In doing some card searches, Knight of the Reliquary probably plays well into this strategy too if I go into a third color.

[mstephenson]

Hey there, fellers. I was wondering if I could get some sideboarding advice for Burn and Shardless. I know both should be favorable, but I'm still super new to the deck. I'm playing one of Mitchell Stephenson's lists:

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Eternal Witness
4 Siege Rhino
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Vindicate

3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay

3 Pernicious Deed

3 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
2 Nissa, Vital Force

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold

sb::
3 Thoughtseize
3 Lost Legacy
2 Surgical Extraction
1 To the Slaughter
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Painful Truths
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

For Burn I was thinking Nissa comes out because she's so slow, and Golgari Charm comes in for Eidolon and Sulfuric Vortex, but I'm not sure what else. For Shardless I've been doing -4 Cabal Therapy, +1 To the Slaughter (Jace is a punk), +1 Painful Truths, +1 Golgari Charm (Strix is kind of annoying, but I'm not sure if they warrant a SB card), +1 Elspeth. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

So for shardless I usually board
-4 Cabal
-1 Vet
+1 Elspeth
+1 Truths
+1 To the Slgaughter
+1 Toxic Deluge
+1 Qasali

I would bring in Qasali before golari in this matchup every time as for sweepers you have better options and Qasali turns sidewise and can sometimes snipe something important like a strix and I think its better than the 4th vet because you dont want to be top decking vets and you will usually get 1-2 out of your deck earlier in the game.

For burn I would go
-2 Nissa
+1 Golgari
+1 Qasali

Be careful with your vets in this matchup because if you pop a vet and dont do something to gainlife/disrupt them you will just die most of the time. But on the other hand gaining 3 life can just be enough to win the match and 2 rhinos total will usually win the game on its own.

[Luthiereisfun]

Hey guys mainly a Maverick player but I also have junk fit built and that has been a lot of fun. However Sneak Fit has really caught my eye. I'm probably going to get the punishing fire package just to have it as an option but I wanted to hear from the Sneak fit players.

In a very general sense what would you say are the Pros and Cons to punishing fire?

I know I will probably just need to test it out and see for myself but forums like these are always good to gain greater insight.

Thanks guys

[Watcher487]

Sorry if this seems random, but I'm looking for some ideas toward this build of 4c Nic Fit. It is built to survive with out Explorer triggering with the 'Shardless' Engine. But the problem is that I'm kinda stuck with running Chord as a tutor effect, I would like to run Transverse instead but I'm running into an issue of having usually 3 out of the 4 types in the yard when I would like to cast Transverse. Foundry combo has been a great mana sink let alone good just to generate card advantage. Other than that I'd would enjoy any ideas given. Thanks

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Baleful Strix
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Kolaghan's Command
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Shardless Agent
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder
2 Sword of the Meek
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Shriekmaw
1 Ancestral Vision
3 Chord of Calling
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Verdurous Gearhulk
4 Veteran Explorer

5 Forest
2 Island
2 Mountain
3 Swamp

1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Bloodstainded Mire
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground River
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
1 Wooded Foothills

[Arianrhod]

Eidolon of Blossoms got cut from Nyx? Huh. Surprised.

[Echelon]

Think this is close to the "latest" version, from Navsi on page 19.

Recruiter of the Guard is latest tech and it grabs Vet, Witness, Aegis, Spirit, and of course, Rector. I'm in the middle of a league right now with it (1-1 so far) with the changes of -1 Brutality +1 Decay, -1 Skybind +1 Starfield, -1 Cavern +1 Forest. I didn't want to spend 6 tix on a 2nd Brutality, and Decay seems too good not to remove completely. I lost to Nahiricles and have a win against Zombardment. I'll try to finish up soon.

Recruiter could be pretty fun w/ a Meren loop. Very grindy though, and no way to tutor for it.


Hey guys mainly a Maverick player but I also have junk fit built and that has been a lot of fun. However Sneak Fit has really caught my eye. I'm probably going to get the punishing fire package just to have it as an option but I wanted to hear from the Sneak fit players.

In a very general sense what would you say are the Pros and Cons to punishing fire?

I know I will probably just need to test it out and see for myself but forums like these are always good to gain greater insight.

Thanks guys

Pros: Recurring removal, secondary win-condition. Cons: Slow, has a hard time dealing w/ bigger creatures.

[Navsi]

Eidolon of Blossoms got cut from Nyx? Huh. Surprised.

I never found it to be that good. Its impact on the board is pretty minimal, and the deck is awkward enough with dead topdecks already that a four mana 2/2 just doesn't do enough.
Zenithing for it is pretty underwhelming. Defensively we'd rather have Nyx Weaver or Chromanticore, and to pressure the opponent we'd rather have Chromanticore since he actually attacks well. Zenithing for a CA engine isn't something I needed to do much, but Witness and Weaver both do the job anyway to varying degrees.

Rector has better targets.
Starfield has better targets.
Sterling Grove has better targets.

If your opponent has a board position, you usually want something that sweeps them or otherwise stabilizes you.
If your opponent doesn't have a board position, you want something that applies more pressure than a cantripping 2/2.
If you just want to get ahead on card advantage we already have tons of ways of doing that which have relevance in other situations also.

It's probably at its best against Miracles, which is the place you might want to Zenith for a longterm card advantage engine most frequently, but frankly we have plenty of ridiculous haymakers in that matchup anyway so I don't think it's worth it when it's pretty underwhelming everywhere else.

[square_two]

Eidolon of Blossoms got cut from Nyx? Huh. Surprised.

I still like the guy. Was insane every time I got him on board.



Hey guys mainly a Maverick player but I also have junk fit built and that has been a lot of fun. However Sneak Fit has really caught my eye. I'm probably going to get the punishing fire package just to have it as an option but I wanted to hear from the Sneak fit players.

In a very general sense what would you say are the Pros and Cons to punishing fire?

I know I will probably just need to test it out and see for myself but forums like these are always good to gain greater insight.

Pros: Recurring removal, secondary win-condition. Cons: Slow, has a hard time dealing w/ bigger creatures.

I'll add to this.

Keep in mind the discussion is really only about Grove + Punishing Fire vs Bolt. Without Grove, your PFire is worse than Lightning Strike. Yes, sometimes you'll later topdeck the Grove, but you will have games where you don't have one. Or vice versa don't see the requisite PFires.

My dislike of PFire revolves around that, and also the fact that I don't believe Sneak Fit needs extra grind. There are a ton of ways to get a 6-drop to your hand and then cast it, instead of durdling around with PFire over and over. Or getting Sneak out and ending the game. Or grinding with Meren/Tracker. IMO your single target removal in nic fit needs to be fast and efficient, because eventually you'll wipe with Deed and then pull ahead with bigger threats.

PFire really only shines in my opinion against Elves and D&T. If you can assemble Grove + PFire early then it can simply win you the game and that is enough of a reward to warrant it. Against Delver they are likely to Waste your Groves, the first PFire is easily Dazeable, although outside of those points it is nice against them. With exception of Leovold.

Running Bolts allows for a smoother manabase. Bolt can kill things extremely early, such as killing your opponent's on-the-play DRS before they get a chance to use it. Easier to get through Daze and play multiple things a turn. Kills Jace if the opponent Brainstorms first (which they often do). I'll say that Counterbalance + Top isn't a consideration because it can lock out PFire about as easily as Bolt. Instead of wasting perhaps an entire turn to kill Jace, you can do it for a spare R. Also, Bolt takes care of Leovold much much better than PFires.

Regardless, I still enjoy 3 Decay 2 Bolts, so in the end the 2 slots of removal isn't the biggest deal in the world. I'd rather have more Decay regardless :)

[Arianrhod]

As a Grove/Fire apologist for the Sneak version, I'll add that it gives you a lot of game against Miracles (and planeswalkers in general, which is something that Nic Fit in general struggles to deal with effectively). It does make your Delver matchup slightly more awkward, as Bolt would be better there (for the reasons Square already noted), but PFire isn't exactly bad there -- it still shoots down what you need it to, just a bit slower.

I guess my stance on PFire in Sneak can best be summed up in that I believe it leads to the most well-rounded version of Sneak. Bolts (or Pushes, if you're so inclined) lead to slightly different strengths, but I find those strengths to come at too much of a cost, personally.

[Hmmm_Really?]

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Nyx Weaver
1 Eternal Witness
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Academy Rector
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Chromanticore

3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Collective Brutality
1 Nissa, Vital Force

3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sterling Grove
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Skybind (he reported that it probably isn't strong enough)
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Living Plane
1 Parallax Wave

3 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats

Sideboard:
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Humility
1 Seal of Primordium
1 City of Solitude
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Courser of Kruphix
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Leyline of the Void

I'm currently on this list as above, -1 Skybind +1 Nissa VF.

What's your turn 1/2/3 strategy in games 2/3 for these match-ups (as I'm assuming game 1 is an auto-loss versus combo)?
1) Elves
2) fast Delver.dec
3) Combo (S&S, Storm, Reanimator)
4) Marit.dec (1x Humility?)

* Is it simply a case of mulligan aggressively to find the relevant Leyline or Aegis?
* Why not Chains over Spirit of the Labyrinth?
* Is Nether Void too slow?
* Is the 1 random Cavern worth it?

Many thanks in advance.

-

[Brael]

Third pass with Scapeshift. After thinking about it a bit, I'm going to have to reluctantly agree with the points about using it as a combo enabler. But, I've had decent luck with DD+Rotation as a SB plan so I think I still want that. Instead, I'm just going to look at Scapeshift as a value generator.

Land 23
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith

Creatures 15
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Dark Confidant
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

Planeswalker 2
2 Nissa, Vital Force

Spells 17
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Crop Rotation
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Scapeshift

Artifact 2
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantment 2
2 Pernicious Deed

It still doesn't seem perfect, but I think this is a better route to go, where Scapeshift can simply assemble the Two Towers and draw a whole bunch of cards.

The mana curve looks something like this, which is about reasonable. Probably too many 3's and too few 2's.
1 14
2 9
3 8
4 6
5 3

[Navsi]

What's your turn 1/2/3 strategy in games 2/3 for these match-ups (as I'm assuming game 1 is an auto-loss versus combo)?
1) Elves
2) fast Delver.dec
3) Combo (S&S, Storm, Reanimator)
4) Marit.dec (1x Humility?)

* Is it simply a case of mulligan aggressively to find the relevant Leyline or Aegis?
* Why not Chains over Spirit of the Labyrinth?
* Is Nether Void too slow?
* Is the 1 random Cavern worth it?

Many thanks in advance.

Game 1 isn't an auto loss, no, probably more like 40% against most fast combo decks.

Elves:
Therapy names Natural Order. Collective Brutality is also great here. Ramping into any of Rector/Doomwake, Deed, or Parallax Wave closes the game out, any of which can happen on turn 3 or 4. Spirit of the Labyrinth is good to have in play, but Recruiter should be finding Rector because Doomwake ends the game. Sideboard out Weaver, Chromanticore and Aegis for Humility, Curse, Spirit of the Labyrinth and slam a haymaker enchantment ASAP after discard spells to slow them down.

Delver:
Therapy countermagic or Stifle, which is their only way of getting past Explorer with Goyf. If you've seen their hand, make Rector and trigger it asap - a lot of Delver decks (particularly Grixis) won't have untapped green sources to deathrite your Rector. Chromanticore is often completely unanswerable for them. Nyx Weaver is a pretty good Zenith choice if you can't reasonably get to Zentih@5. Getting an explorer trigger is important here, but we have a lot of sacrifice outlets. Sideboard out expensive stuff like Nissas for City of Solitude (stops Stifle), Courser of Kruphix and probably Spirit of the Labyrinth. Sanctity comes in against UR Delver, Curse against Pyromancer. Humility normally isn't necessary - we have better targets for Rector triggers in Chromanticore and Parallax Wave.

Sneak&Show:
Therapy/Collective Brutality Sneak Attack, or S&T if you don't have any Rectors etc in hand. Rector putting Parallax Wave into play shuts down their creatures pretty effectively. If they let your Rector trigger resolve before using Griselbrand to draw, Faith's Fetters is good. Wave is plan A though. Try keeping a Tower untapped to sac Rectors off S&T. Sideboard out Deeds and Aegis for Humility, SotL, usually Carpet of Flowers just because it ramps you into Rectors and is better than nothing.

Storm:
Try and slow them down with discard. I therapy LED since their fastest lines all involve it. Aegis of the Gods and Spirit of the Labyrinth are both amazing here - a lot of Storm decks have zero maindeck outs to Aegis, so finding one (with Recruiter or Rector) should be your first plan. Spirit is good for keeping them pinned down early on. It's not great though. Sideboard out Deeds, PWave, Starfield, Fetters, and either Weaver or Chromanticore for all the leylines and SotL. Mulll to six if no Leylines, but beyond that early discard + disruption creature is just fine. Sterling Grove makes SotL and Leylines immune to removal which is usually pretty strong.

Reanimator:
Therapy Entomb usually. This is basically halfway between Storm and SnS - SotL is good again. Parallax Wave is primary plan. Sideboard plan is the same as Sneak and Show + add Leyline of the Void and take out more expensive stuff like Nissa and Starfield.

Marit Lage:
Therapy Crop Rotation. Parallax Wave is once again the best card in the deck - even if they have Not of this World it doesn't care. Get it into play by whatever means necessary then beat them to death. If you can resolve a Starfield the game ends, since you get to dodge all their mana denial and recur a blocker for marit lage every turn. Sterling Grove protects from Krosan Grips etc. Sideboard out Deed, Aegis and SotL, replacing with Leyline of the Void, Humility and City of Solitude (since City means they have to Lage in their turn then pass, and can't Port you).


* Mulliganing for Leyline is good sometimes, but discard spell into early Rector trigger is usually good enough. I wouldn't mulligan lower than six looking for leyline if my six had ramp + rector + discard.

* Spirit of the Labyrinth can kill people. Pretty much every non-Miracles deck SOTL is good against runs Decay as its primary removal anyway, so it's not any less durable, and providing a clock is extremely useful to stop people just naturally drawing into the kill six turns down the line. SotL is also easier to cast since we can make it off Cavern if necessary. It's also still a body against decks that don't draw loads, like Loam decks and D&T. It's not great there but it's better than Chains which is completely blank.

* Nether Void is fine. It's moderately good in a lot of matchups (obviously wrecks spell based combo) and I could see it being good as a catchall for combo in a deck with fewer silver bullet slots. Originally I had it as a Rector target which is a) castable, b) not dead in other matchups so it can be in the maindeck and c) stops Storm, but since the current build has Rector, Aegis of the Gods does the same thing while being cheaper. Aegis would be the slot NVoid takes up. Also has synergy with Cavern and Abrupt Decay.

* Cavern is nice because you have quite a lot of Humans. If it gets cut it becomes a Savannah. Makes the Miracles matchup better, and there's a lot of it in my area. Uncounterable rectors and recruiters help against BUG too. If there's a lot of mana denial in your area, cut it - it's not essential or anything, just a meta call between Cavern and the second Savannah.

[TTX]

I really don't get why you would run Scapeshift in a B/G deck without first running 4 Crop Rotations...
Anyway, I shared this list last June, but no attention was given, I thought I'd revitalize the discussion.
Tireless Tracker is amazing btw.
There is no reason to cast Scapeshift and not win immediately. Keep this in mind...

// 60 Maindeck
// 3 Artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top

// 14 Creature
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

// 3 Enchantment
3 Pernicious Deed

// 2 Instant
2 Abrupt Decay

// 24 Land
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Stomping Ground
1 Volrath's Stronghold

// 14 Sorcery
2 Scapeshift
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Pithing Needle

// 1 Creature
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

// 10 Sorcery
SB: 1 Scapeshift
SB: 1 Innocent Blood
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 From the Ashes
SB: 2 Thoughtseize

[Navsi]

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk

3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Scapeshift
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Stomping Ground
1 Volrath's Stronghold


SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Scapeshift
SB: 1 Innocent Blood
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 From the Ashes
SB: 2 Thoughtseize


That's a Scapeshift list. Trackers are good but I don't think there's anything here that's particularly different to the standard one, right?
- I don't think Teeg in the sideboard is worth it. Zenithing him against combo decks is ok I guess, but I'd rather just have more discard.
- Speaking of which, I'd recommend giving Kolaghan's Command or Collective Brutality (or both) a shot. They make your combo matchups slightly less awful.
- Is Thrun really necessary? He's only good against Miracles which is already one of your better matchups, and he's only durable there if you get two towers.
- To The Slaughter is pretty good at killing Jaces and Marit Lages, which you have no answers to other than 'combo and kill you'. In particular I'm pretty sure Lands just has a bye against you since your clock isn't fast enough (esp into wasteland) and you don't have any way of meaningfully interacting with them. 2 Needles and 2 Surgicals probably isn't enough.
- I would rather have 11 mountains than 10, which always feels a bit on the low side. I don't think Tower/Stronghold does much here, without primeval titan to find them.

[Brael]

I really don't get why you would run Scapeshift in a B/G deck without first running 4 Crop Rotations...
Anyway, I shared this list last June, but no attention was given, I thought I'd revitalize the discussion.
Tireless Tracker is amazing btw.
There is no reason to cast Scapeshift and not win immediately. Keep this in mind...

I've been going back and forth on that Crop Rotation question. The main argument is to provide a whole bunch of value at once. Crop Rotation is a high impact spell, but lately I've been finding that it's best use which is to power out an early Tower is a little too vulnerable to FoW. It could just be because my local meta is pretty stupid right now, but I'm finding it to backfire a little bit too much.

I'm liking Crop Rotation for certain things, and I don't want to fully cut it from the list but for other things it's poor. For example, Crop Rotation is great to fight against Dredge by getting Bojuka Bog but it's poorly positioned to fight against Miracles to get a Cavern of Souls. So in the absence of a convincing reason to go otherwise, I would rather just split the difference and have access to both.

For your last point, my main argument is that it comes down to matchups. Scapeshift has certain matches where it's good, but it also carries a lot of baggage with it which makes other matches worse. If you're not tying yourself to needing 10 slots that accelerate land drops, and a whole bunch of mountains, you gain a better manabase and slots for disruption. As I said, I could be wrong... I'll know more after I get some real testing in but I think it has some potential as just a value card. It certainly wouldn't be the first time this deck has adopted a combo card and simply used it for value... SDT and Therapy are two examples that spring to mind.

No one ever blinks at playing Primeval Titan to set up a 2 card combo, and that's 2 mana more for a weaker effect. Scapeshift can set up even more, for less mana.

[Lueseto]

I disagree that Primeval is a weaker effect: it brings two new lands while Scapeshift just replaces them. Plus it's a 6/6 trampler that must be answered, and Zenitheable. Yet I was going to say that if you are playing Scapeshift for value you should play 4 trackers so we agree in that. It's the way to test if it is worth it as a value card, yet theorycrafting I still judge it's too big mana investment for slow impact; I'd rather play a creature/pw or a form of interaction.

Regarding crop rotation, I ran it with intuition and DD combo as a 4-of and frequently got the impression that it took too much gas from the deck. As a disruption tool it's supreme against unfair decks but it hurt fair matchups too much in my testing.

[fireiced]

As a Grove/Fire apologist for the Sneak version, I'll add that it gives you a lot of game against Miracles (and planeswalkers in general, which is something that Nic Fit in general struggles to deal with effectively). It does make your Delver matchup slightly more awkward, as Bolt would be better there (for the reasons Square already noted), but PFire isn't exactly bad there -- it still shoots down what you need it to, just a bit slower.

I guess my stance on PFire in Sneak can best be summed up in that I believe it leads to the most well-rounded version of Sneak. Bolts (or Pushes, if you're so inclined) lead to slightly different strengths, but I find those strengths to come at too much of a cost, personally.

Care to share your most updated list?

[Kobra_D]

As a bit of a tangent:

Nic Fit players need to be consistent on cabal therapy, it's part of the "nice fit" after all, but that isn't the only spell we can find in our 75 that relies on knowing thy enemy. Sure, this will be deck dependent but if we were to resolve a slaughter games/lost legacy type of effect, what would you name for different match ups?

Combo match ups might be a little easier to reason out:
ANT- Tendrils, unless they board in goblins (and they might but I've seen players not do this against me), it's their only win-con. Scoop to inevitability.
TES- Burning Wish, there is probably at least 1 empty the warrens main, but burning wish cuts off a lot of the game plan.
Reanimator- Exhume (or just a fatty that's hard to deal with like tidespout/grave titan but I'm sticking with exhume), reanimate hurts, and animate dead dies to pridemage/abrupt decay giving us more game against it (and a reanimator pilot will probably cut these first for more disruption).

Then things get weird with fairer decks:
Delver decks can be all over the place, maybe brainstorm because that will hit. Leovold if you've seen him is probably a nice target.
D&T?- Mom? SFM? This deck frustrates me no matter what I'm playing *Kanye Shrug*.
Burn- Probably not casting this, although fireblast might be a nice thing to not worry about.
Eldrazi- Might be right to name Reality Smasher. I can usually find myself dealing with TKS, but the 5/5 trample make the team 5/5 is hard to cope with.


Anyways, if anyone has input on various match ups I would appreciate entertaining the thought.

[Navsi]

Combo match ups might be a little easier to reason out:
ANT- Tendrils, unless they board in goblins (and they might but I've seen players not do this against me), it's their only win-con. Scoop to inevitability.
TES- Burning Wish, there is probably at least 1 empty the warrens main, but burning wish cuts off a lot of the game plan.
Reanimator- Exhume (or just a fatty that's hard to deal with like tidespout/grave titan but I'm sticking with exhume), reanimate hurts, and animate dead dies to pridemage/abrupt decay giving us more game against it (and a reanimator pilot will probably cut these first for more disruption).

Then things get weird with fairer decks:
Delver decks can be all over the place, maybe brainstorm because that will hit. Leovold if you've seen him is probably a nice target.
D&T?- Mom? SFM? This deck frustrates me no matter what I'm playing *Kanye Shrug*.
Burn- Probably not casting this, although fireblast might be a nice thing to not worry about.
Eldrazi- Might be right to name Reality Smasher. I can usually find myself dealing with TKS, but the 5/5 trample make the team 5/5 is hard to cope with.


Anyways, if anyone has input on various match ups I would appreciate entertaining the thought.

Boarding in goblins doesn't happen much against us because we play Pernicious Deed.
Against Reanimator I normally name Griselbrand. After Grisel they can make Iona (who we can potentially race or remove) or Elesh Norn (who is a slow clock and we can probably just kill). Grave Titan just gets chumped for three turns and then you have the mana to Deed it away, or otherwise gets removed. Tidespout is good, but if they haven't also got Griselbrand they probably aren't casting that many spells immediately and it's no harder to remove than anything else.

Delver - depends what threats they've made. Naming Lightning Bolt against red builds gives you a lot more security. If you're casting it on turn two or something, taking Goyfs removes a lot of their powerful threats. I don't know why you boarded this spell in here though.
D&T - Again, you don't want to board Games effects in here, but I'd be tempted to say Phyrexian Revoker or Flickerwisp, since they're two of the better cards against our deck.
Burn - yeah, Fireblast is the way to go. I could see maybe naming Sulfuric Vortex if I had a lot of lifegain available.
Eldrazi - TKS is more of a problem imo. It comes down way earlier and takes the interaction you want. 5/5 mimics just get blocked by explorers, then you untap and Deed their stuff.

All four of those I wouldn't sideboard into extraction effects against, though.

[square_two]

I'm in the middle of an online league with this, for kicks and giggles.

17
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

21
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Life from the Loam
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Intuition
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Smokestack
1 Garruk Relentless

22
3 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Ghost Quarter

side:
2 Pulse of Murasa
3 Lost Legacy
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Damnation
1 Golgari Charm
1 To the Slaughter
1 Negate
1 Thoughtseize
1 Nissa, Vital Force


Really wanted to try the Tracker/Stax combo, and felt that Strix worked well with that. Replaces itself, blocks, sacs to whatever. Intuition seems like a pretty efficient way to fit in a Loam effect without having to add a ton of slots for Crucibles and excess Wastelands and such. Could probably argue for 3 Smokestack 3 Deed just so you can grab either with Intuition. Also wasn't sure about having Nissa or Garruk mainboard but both are great here. List is pretty low to the ground so I might go down to 21 lands.

[rubblekill]

I'm in the middle of an online league with this, for kicks and giggles.

17
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

21
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Life from the Loam
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Intuition
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Smokestack
1 Garruk Relentless

22
3 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Ghost Quarter

side:
2 Pulse of Murasa
3 Lost Legacy
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Damnation
1 Golgari Charm
1 To the Slaughter
1 Negate
1 Thoughtseize
1 Nissa, Vital Force

How are you liking pulse of murasa in the side?
I have been playing a GB control list lately, and I think I like murasa.
The deck feels so much stronger than rhinos to be honest; it allows me to play the game in very different ways depending on the situation. The free wins you get vs RB reanimator, dredge GB depths and other nonsense are amazing: that's because crop rotation is always the best card to have in the opener in G1; in G2 it can be replaced by more appropriate sb cards depending on the match up.

"Weird options" I am playing:
-3 murasa in the side: GB, especially when you don't really play a lot of creatures, has no decent lifegain in the early game. Pulse not only is here to stabilise, but it also gives some late game value buying back a random tracker.
Burn and sometimes even delver can be tricky for GB, and 3 pulse of murasa make the burn match up a joke, in that match up they go along with the 3 md hymns very well in my experience.

-Titania. I have always despised the card, but now in this meta she is very good in my opinion. Good not only in the sense that she can win the game (any 5+cmc bomb can do it, really), but in the sense that she can do it very FAST. The "180^ the board state" potential of this card is very real.
Crop rotation is an additional sinergy for Titania, and sometimes for a topdecked in the late game tracker (I very rarely use crop rotation proactively to fetch a tower, I mostly use it as a late game card that fits very well the controlling approach of the deck. On top of that it gives game against all the unfair decks that are a nightmare in G1 for the aggro builds of this archetype).
To be honest I feel like I have been seeing a lot less bolts and more decays lately. Pretty much everyone and their mother seems to be playing BUG colors, and that means that titania may very well be one of the best finishers we can play at the moment (GSZ'able, even).

I haven't really missed white, ever.
I am seeing a lot less eldrazi around, and that was the main reason to play white for me. Sigarda is replaceable and 2 new nissas are more versatile win cons, they replaced sigarda in my decks.
I often read here that white is played because it gives us a chance against lands. In my opinion white doesn't change anything in that match up: a decent lands player is going to negate us white mana before making Lage: when I played rhino, the (very few) times I won against lands were the ones where I could deploy an early and uncontested DRS/Ooze, and that strategy is available in GB as well.

The real reason to play white, at least for me, will always be only the rhino. Until WotC bans terminus that guy is unplayable in a meta where miracles has a 21% (!!!!!!) presence.

[square_two]

I've honestly not played that much with Pulse of Murasa. Probably under 20 matches with having 2 in the side - and that is primarily with Dragon Fit. I think it pairs especially well with Strix (and Loam). Strix eating removal or blocking something well, and then later getting it back is just value. Definitely am considering going to 3 Pulse. Had a Burn matchup last night where Pulse did buy me a couple of turns (still died to Bolt+Blast after I landed a Titania though). Having another copy available could have easily led to a win.

Gaining 6 life against Lands is essentially the same as gaining 20 life :wink:

I've not been able to "get" anyone with it in Reanimator and such matchups, though I'm pretty sure I've seen Stryfo do it online.

[yotrixxx]

Hi guys,

Ive been lurking around here for a little bit and I think the deck is extremely interesting I love a grindy deck and am looking for a home in legacy I think nic fit might be it. Having said that it seems that there are a TON of different builds floating around, Can someone help me with a list for someone just starting out with the archetype, playing online with a pretty limitless card pool so budget or card selections is no issues, and also with any resources you may have about playing that list or just the deck/archetype in general, any sideboard guides whatever anything is helpful, thanks in advance!

[Navsi]

Hi guys,

Ive been lurking around here for a little bit and I think the deck is extremely interesting I love a grindy deck and am looking for a home in legacy I think nic fit might be it. Having said that it seems that there are a TON of different builds floating around, Can someone help me with a list for someone just starting out with the archetype, playing online with a pretty limitless card pool so budget or card selections is no issues, and also with any resources you may have about playing that list or just the deck/archetype in general, any sideboard guides whatever anything is helpful, thanks in advance!

The primer on the first page of this thread is helpful.

I'd say the most 'solved' decks in the thread are Abzan midrange builds and Jund Sneak Attack. Nyx is getting there but I wouldn't recommend starting it and I'm not sure it's consistent enough. The bug builds have a ton of variance in them (they aren't as shackled to Zenith) which means there's a lot of different builds and I cna't confidently recommend any of them specifically. Straight GB might be looking strong again, but it's not in a state close to locked in yet. Scapeshift is just Sneak but worse right now probably.

[rubblekill]

I've honestly not played that much with Pulse of Murasa. Probably under 20 matches with having 2 in the side - and that is primarily with Dragon Fit. I think it pairs especially well with Strix (and Loam). Strix eating removal or blocking something well, and then later getting it back is just value. Definitely am considering going to 3 Pulse. Had a Burn matchup last night where Pulse did buy me a couple of turns (still died to Bolt+Blast after I landed a Titania though). Having another copy available could have easily led to a win.

Gaining 6 life against Lands is essentially the same as gaining 20 life :wink:

I've not been able to "get" anyone with it in Reanimator and such matchups, though I'm pretty sure I've seen Stryfo do it online.

I have definitely done it at least one time against a reanimator guy. The ape was not pleased when griselbrand got counterspelled by a standard card.
Even though it felt awesome to get the insta rage quit concede out of a common standard legal card, I wouldn't lean heavily on murasa as a way to beat reanimape.

[Lueseto]

The ape was not pleased when griselbrand got counterspelled by a standard card.

I lol'd hard to this :laugh:

A friend who plays Scapewish gets many wins against reanimator by discarding them a fatty (so they put a weird and pleased look) and then wishing for Reanimate and stealing it (so their face wrinkles in disgust).

@Square_two It's nice to see I'm not the only one trying to make Intuition work. In my experience, what you said about having 3 Deeds is pretty big. One Deed is all it takes in some matchups. Have you tested Dark Depths combo in a similar build? I'm not being able to get in many matches so I'll try to gather data from other people to see their feelings on Intuition+DD. Let me know if you try it sometime, and keep us updated on how that league goes!

[mstephenson]

As a bit of a tangent:

Nic Fit players need to be consistent on cabal therapy, it's part of the "nice fit" after all, but that isn't the only spell we can find in our 75 that relies on knowing thy enemy. Sure, this will be deck dependent but if we were to resolve a slaughter games/lost legacy type of effect, what would you name for different match ups?

Combo match ups might be a little easier to reason out:
ANT- Tendrils, unless they board in goblins (and they might but I've seen players not do this against me), it's their only win-con. Scoop to inevitability.
TES- Burning Wish, there is probably at least 1 empty the warrens main, but burning wish cuts off a lot of the game plan.
Reanimator- Exhume (or just a fatty that's hard to deal with like tidespout/grave titan but I'm sticking with exhume), reanimate hurts, and animate dead dies to pridemage/abrupt decay giving us more game against it (and a reanimator pilot will probably cut these first for more disruption).

Then things get weird with fairer decks:
Delver decks can be all over the place, maybe brainstorm because that will hit. Leovold if you've seen him is probably a nice target.
D&T?- Mom? SFM? This deck frustrates me no matter what I'm playing *Kanye Shrug*.
Burn- Probably not casting this, although fireblast might be a nice thing to not worry about.
Eldrazi- Might be right to name Reality Smasher. I can usually find myself dealing with TKS, but the 5/5 trample make the team 5/5 is hard to cope with.


Anyways, if anyone has input on various match ups I would appreciate entertaining the thought.

I'm not bringing in any slaughter gams effect against any of the fair decks other than miracales(mostly because there are have so many cards I want out of my deck) as they don't do anything. Every other deck I would say a slaughter games effect don't matter.

Against combo decks the name is usually obvious. Against reanimater I usually name griselbrand as drawing 7 cards is really hard to beat and they have multiple ways of re animating a dude and the other dudes are so much more beatable. For ANT always name tendrils as the goblins are so much easier to beat and I have no experience against TES but I think you name wish because that should be the only thing that gets tendrils.

Do you have any other decks you particularly want info on than the ones you listed?

[square_two]

@Square_two It's nice to see I'm not the only one trying to make Intuition work. In my experience, what you said about having 3 Deeds is pretty big. One Deed is all it takes in some matchups. Have you tested Dark Depths combo in a similar build? I'm not being able to get in many matches so I'll try to gather data from other people to see their feelings on Intuition+DD. Let me know if you try it sometime, and keep us updated on how that league goes!

I've not tested Depths at all. I'm already wanting to go down to 21 lands and so I really doubt that Stage+Depths gets any slots alongside Smokestack. I think Ghost Quarter / Stronghold is all you would need in order to grind someone out. Intuition for Loam/Stage/Depths can take a while to assemble, especially against Wasteland decks.

More tuned list is probably closer to this (with 21 lands). Smokestack seems great against both fair decks + Miracles. Very poor against combo. Sideboard for this should require less Miracles hate than typical nic fit lists.

18
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

21
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Life from the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Intuition
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Smokestack
1 Garruk Relentless

[Brael]

I'm not bringing in any slaughter gams effect against any of the fair decks other than miracales(mostly because there are have so many cards I want out of my deck) as they don't do anything. Every other deck I would say a slaughter games effect don't matter.

Miracles gets a lot easier (at least in the creature heavier going wide versions I play) if you extract Terminus. But in general I agree. Extraction cards work best when your opponent has few win conditions and losing one is a major setback. You don't want to extract something if your opponent can still easily win the game without it.

[Arianrhod]

Care to share your most updated list?

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Inferno Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Punishing Fire
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Sneak Attack
3 Pernicious Deed

3 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Nissa, Vital Force

3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills

sb::
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pyroclasm
2 Slaughter Games
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 To the Slaughter

[Warden]

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Inferno Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Punishing Fire
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Sneak Attack
3 Pernicious Deed

3 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Nissa, Vital Force

3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills

sb::
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pyroclasm
2 Slaughter Games
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 To the Slaughter

I've been away for a while. Not gonna lie though, this list looks fun as shit.

3 questions for you
1) Tireless Tracker's inclusion?
2) Removal that compliments 2 Decay, 3 Deed?
3) 4 Sneak Attacks vs 3?

1. I am biased against Tireless Tracker because from my experiences, he didn't contribute much. I think decks that abuse the land-dropping gameplan make him work. For Nic Fit (and especially Sneak-Fit), I can't help but think you're better off replacing him outright. Several months ago when Sneak-Fit was under the radar, some of the Nic Fit players ran Sidisi (who is downright stupid OP off a Sneak activation). Maybe Sidisi replaces Tracker, since you can setup the kill shot then and there OR just tutor for [insert answer to current board-state]. Maybe Tracker is replaced in the MD by Meren? Perhaps you can strategically go sideways by including 1x Magus of the Moon. Hear me out on this. Our meta hasn't changed (from the news and decklists I see). Magus is capable of just auto-winning against highly developed 3 and 4 colored decks. It also does damage against shit like Death and Taxes that benefit from extensive non-basics (port, wastes, karakas, cavern). On a side note, Magus can be "tutored" by Bellower he isn't drawn/found naturally.

2. I went back several pages for some points about L. Bolt vs Pfires + Grove. I'd love to hear others discuss how you compliment what I believe is a "lock" in 2 Decay/3 Deed. Pfires is SO goddamn grindy but did the card lose steam with 2017 fast aggro decks? Does it stop pyromancer and mentor? Perhaps 3x Sudden Demise (another wiper that eats our own Vets for R+1)? Demise scales very well over the course of the game but is less grindy than Pfires. On the other hand, a Demise for x=2 kills ~95% of creatures you'll see including TNN, a table of DnT/Maverick, multiple Delvers, a table of elves, etc. Going red is hedging your inevitable loss against a 20/20 Marit token, so that's a sunk cost. Both Pfires and Demise struggle against delve creatures like Anglur, etc.
Another idea is 0 red removal. Black has plenty of options to take care of business -- especially with the recent sets.

3. Do you feel you need 4 Sneaks or can you get away with 3? I ask because there's no way to brainstorm excess ones out of your hand and/or ponder-shuffle them away.

[Lueseto]

Sudden Demise doesn't kill TNN. Damage is prevented because of protection.

[Bobmans]

Hi guys,

Ive been lurking around here for a little bit and I think the deck is extremely interesting I love a grindy deck and am looking for a home in legacy I think nic fit might be it.

If your into heavy grinding, you should check out PFire Jund, I think its still in my sig.
I'd say Junk has the most generic all round kind of playstyle that will give you the best "feel" of the deck in general. Junk is also the best choice to take into a "blind" meta imho.
Beyond that; Sneak, Nyx or whatever version have more specific playstyles / endgames.

[yotrixxx]

thanks for the answers guys i was more looking for a specific list ive read the primer through and all the lists are from like 2011-14 I want to know im building something updated, it generally seems like abzan is the place to start, although i do love a grindy game so the pfire list calls to me a bit. How is the list that andrea mengucci recorded with a few weeks ago, the abzan one not that sultai planewalker mess. OR do any of you have a nice updated abzan list geared toward a blind/wide open meta.

thanks in advance

[square_two]

thanks for the answers guys i was more looking for a specific list ive read the primer through and all the lists are from like 2011-14 I want to know im building something updated, it generally seems like abzan is the place to start, although i do love a grindy game so the pfire list calls to me a bit. How is the list that andrea mengucci recorded with a few weeks ago, the abzan one not that sultai planewalker mess. OR do any of you have a nice updated abzan list geared toward a blind/wide open meta.

thanks in advance

?? The primer in this sub was written 2 months ago and contains recent lists. Arianrhod put in great work updating it. Are you referring to the old Nic Fit thread with old primer?

I would start with either Sneak Fit or classic Junk fit, both of which you will find plenty of examples within the last few pages. Basically either use Arianrhod or my own version of Sneak Fit - depends on whether you want to use PFire or not, and there are 2-3 flex spots in either list. Mengucci's list for Junk is a fine starting point as well.

Most every version of Nic Fit is grindy so you really won't be disappointed in that regard. The only exception is Sneak Fit which has some speed due to Sneak Attack -> followup Emrakul.

[mstephenson]

Miracles gets a lot easier (at least in the creature heavier going wide versions I play) if you extract Terminus. But in general I agree. Extraction cards work best when your opponent has few win conditions and losing one is a major setback. You don't want to extract something if your opponent can still easily win the game without it.

The only reason I bring it in against miracles is because there are so many bad cards to take out and even with the creature builds I usually took out a lot of them. But IMO the bigger thing about extracting jace from their deck is that you can now beat them with a pile of removal(esp if they are on mentor). Im also more scared of entreat than terminus because I feel like I can outgrind miracles once jace is gone so long as entreat/mentor is gone (this is super obnoxious when the run both for whatever reason)

[emuhell]

Put some thoughts into reworking the Scapeshift list. I found the P-Fire engine to be too greedy and I wanted to include former staple Stormbreath Dragon as an alternative win condition.

2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Badlands
4 Taiga
2 Mountain
1 Stomping Ground
2 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Wood Elves
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Thragtusk
2 Stormbreath Dragon


4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Scapeshift
2 Diabolic Intent
1 Maelstrom Pulse

3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top

SB
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Slaughter Games
3 Pulse of Murasa
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm

Pretty straightforward with a rather simplified - wishless - sideboard. Depending on my testing I maybe will return to Pyroblast in the SB.

[yotrixxx]

so just played my first game..... IM IN LOVE thats all really just felt like letting everyone know. i won which was also nice, 2-0 against a metalworker mud contraption

[fireiced]

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Inferno Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Punishing Fire
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Sneak Attack
3 Pernicious Deed

3 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Nissa, Vital Force

3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills

sb::
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pyroclasm
2 Slaughter Games
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 To the Slaughter

Thanks!

[Arianrhod]

I've been away for a while. Not gonna lie though, this list looks fun as shit.

3 questions for you
1) Tireless Tracker's inclusion?
2) Removal that compliments 2 Decay, 3 Deed?
3) 4 Sneak Attacks vs 3?

1. I am biased against Tireless Tracker because from my experiences, he didn't contribute much. I think decks that abuse the land-dropping gameplan make him work. For Nic Fit (and especially Sneak-Fit), I can't help but think you're better off replacing him outright. Several months ago when Sneak-Fit was under the radar, some of the Nic Fit players ran Sidisi (who is downright stupid OP off a Sneak activation). Maybe Sidisi replaces Tracker, since you can setup the kill shot then and there OR just tutor for [insert answer to current board-state]. Maybe Tracker is replaced in the MD by Meren? Perhaps you can strategically go sideways by including 1x Magus of the Moon. Hear me out on this. Our meta hasn't changed (from the news and decklists I see). Magus is capable of just auto-winning against highly developed 3 and 4 colored decks. It also does damage against shit like Death and Taxes that benefit from extensive non-basics (port, wastes, karakas, cavern). On a side note, Magus can be "tutored" by Bellower he isn't drawn/found naturally.

2. I went back several pages for some points about L. Bolt vs Pfires + Grove. I'd love to hear others discuss how you compliment what I believe is a "lock" in 2 Decay/3 Deed. Pfires is SO goddamn grindy but did the card lose steam with 2017 fast aggro decks? Does it stop pyromancer and mentor? Perhaps 3x Sudden Demise (another wiper that eats our own Vets for R+1)? Demise scales very well over the course of the game but is less grindy than Pfires. On the other hand, a Demise for x=2 kills ~95% of creatures you'll see including TNN, a table of DnT/Maverick, multiple Delvers, a table of elves, etc. Going red is hedging your inevitable loss against a 20/20 Marit token, so that's a sunk cost. Both Pfires and Demise struggle against delve creatures like Anglur, etc.
Another idea is 0 red removal. Black has plenty of options to take care of business -- especially with the recent sets.

3. Do you feel you need 4 Sneaks or can you get away with 3? I ask because there's no way to brainstorm excess ones out of your hand and/or ponder-shuffle them away.

RE: Tracker

Tracker started in the sideboard and actually moved maindeck, with Meren going to the board since Tracker and Meren overlap in many ways, but Tracker being Bellowable and breaking open a couple more matchups than Meren gave him the edge. If Bellower was capable of tutoring non-green creatures, Magus of the Moon would 100% be an inclusion either main or side -- but, alas, Bellower only grabs green dudes.

RE: removal

Again, the biggest thing is that I want Sneak to be able to handle planeswalkers effectively, as that's something that I've seen as a glaring hole in Nic Fit as a collective archetype since inception. Big Blue Jace.dec has always given us issues, and I want to fix that. PFire is simply the best at this. Yes, it does tax the manabase a little, and yes, Bolt is better in some situations -- but definitely not all. PFire has won me games that Bolt couldn't touch, and while we dock some points vs Delver, that's traditionally a good enough matchup that I'm willing to sacrifice some of its potency in exchange for buffing other matchups -- especially Miracles, which is the defacto "end boss" of the format. Being favored vs Miracles is powerful juju. Sudden Demise doesn't hit TNN, and at that point I'd sooner play Deluge. Deed's better than either of them here IMO, but I've always been a purist when it comes to Deed. I could easily see a Deluge playing backup to the Deeds if you could find the room, but, that comes down to space. For the board I typically prefer Pyroclasm just because of Elves and Delver, but you could flavor those slots as Deluges or Fatal Pushes if you wanted them to be. I just prefer Pyroclasm personally.

RE: 4 Sneaks

Absolutely 4 in my opinion. Yes, there will be games you will lose from drawing too many redundant Sneaks (as not many things deals with it once it's out). However, they aren't quite dead in multiples (as that protects them from discard or counters), and they're just so. incredibly. important. to draw. Like, the deck is a fine Jund-style grindy Nic Fit deck without Sneak in play. With Sneak in play, it does incredibly dirty things incredibly fast. You just always want to have one, and that pushes it from 3 to 4 in my estimation.

[Echelon]

so just played my first game..... IM IN LOVE thats all really just felt like letting everyone know. i won which was also nice, 2-0 against a metalworker mud contraption

With what 75? I mean, when going w/ Junk Fit and a list that runs Meren of Clan Nel Toth and Qasali Pridemage the game becomes quite well managable. It for sure is one MU I'd be happy to face any day.

[square_two]

Went 3-2 with my updated bug stax list. Won a whopping 0 games using Smokestack :laugh:
Might of been because I faced Miracles, UB Delver, Painter, Dredge, and Sneak/Show though.

Guess I might just bite the bullet and swap those for walkers. Or simply adjust the Dragon Fit list to have more Trackers.

On the plus side, I'm totally impressed with Intuition. Card is nuts, especially after sideboarding.

Used it to beat Dredge by grabbing 3 Cabal Therapy and sacrificing Vet. Later in game used one of the pitched Therapies to sacrifice another creature to help remove Bridges from their yard. Grabbing Therapies is just value.

Had a game 2 against Painter that went like this:
His turn 1: Grindstone
My turn 1: Fetch, DRS
His turn 2: 2nd Grindstone
My turn 2: Land, Veteran, Cabal Therapy naming Painter (hit), sac Veteran for Therapy naming Ensnaring Bridge (hit), cast Intuition grabbing 3 Surgicals, Surgical his Painter.

Having 3 Surgicals in the side with Intuition is just amazing. Might have to try 3 Flusterstorm or some other combo hate card as well but I'm not sure. Not having to dedicate many sideboard slots to Miracles has some nice advantages.

[Tulkas]

hi guys, i'm searching another deck to play (i m playing DeT currently) and i fell in love with nyx fit. i tried it on cockatrice and it's really funny to play.
what do you think of this version of nic fit in the current meta?

[Navsi]

hi guys, i'm searching another deck to play (i m playing DeT currently) and i fell in love with nyx fit. i tried it on cockatrice and it's really funny to play.
what do you think of this version of nic fit in the current meta?

Nyx is pretty good right now. It's pretty good against Miracles and solid against all the grindy BUG midrange decks, without sacrificing the combo matchups too much. You have a reasonable number of discard and interaction. The main thing the deck loses to is itself to be honest - the sheer number of relatively niche effects in the deck, while usually not a problem, sometimes leaves you with hands containing 3-4 4+ mana cards and you just get rolled. The deck does not mulligan well. It's also moderately vulnerable to mana denial from decks like D&T and Lands - less all-in decks like 4CLoam and Delver decks aren't so bad though.

The nice thing about Nyx is that because of the silver bullet package, you can very easily customize the deck to the metagame you're playing in. If you're seeing a lot of combo decks, maindeck leylines are actually pretty good. If there's lots of Miracles, run a second Starfield. If aggro/tempo decks are everywhere, add Dead Weight, more Nyx Weavers, or Swords to Plowshares.

Deck is hard to play. Definitely more complex than most other Nic Fit builds. You will miss triggers and fuck it up. I do it all the time. It's still super powerful though. I'd say you can definitely still do well, and I'm pretty sure it's rewarding when you do, but do keep it in mind.

[Tulkas]

yh from the few games that I've done it's not easy to play it but i prefer this kind of deck compared to eldrazi or show and tell ^^. the only doubt was its viability.
my meta has only 1 combo deck (show and tell)... the other are bug delver/control, miracle, eldrazi, elves and other midrange decks so it can do reasonably well :D.

[Purple Blood]

Again, the biggest thing is that I want Sneak to be able to handle planeswalkers effectively, as that's something that I've seen as a glaring hole in Nic Fit as a collective archetype since inception.

Do you think Vindicate can be an answer to Jace? I've been trying to figure out a good split for removal between Path/Deed/AD/Vindicate/Edict.

___

Also some random questions I've been pondering...

- Curious why Hymn has fallen out of favor. I don't see any of the current builds running that anymore.

- Has anyone tested Liliana Vess as a way to tutor for the right removal piece at the right time or is she just too slow against the decks where we would need such interaction?

- What lines of play are people running with Empath/Bellower? Do you use Bellower to fetch Empath and fetch a third threat (I guess this is the most value) or is it just game-state dependent? I just picked both of these up so I'll be testing it out - maybe with Grave Titan.

- Generally speaking, what do you guys feel is the right spread between removal and threats in a Junk build? Right now I'm thinking of the deck like this: (1) 23 lands; the "core" package of Top/Vet/CT/GSZ (takes up 15 slots); (3) 22 remaining slots split between threats and answers. Right now I'm running a pretty even split skewing planeswalker heavy. I'm thinking of testing a junk superfriends build that eschews creatures almost entirely for a controlling build. I tend to agree with many posters in this thread that tuning Nic Fit toward a mid-range creature setup is not the right way.

[Megadeus]

Bought Veteran Explorers and Deeds earlier today so I guess I'm coming back to Nic Fit for the fourth time. How have people liked To The Slaughter? Knowing Jace and Marit Lage are two of the decks biggest problems in the format, how have you guys found it to be? It seems insane

[square_two]

- What lines of play are people running with Empath/Bellower? Do you use Bellower to fetch Empath and fetch a third threat (I guess this is the most value) or is it just game-state dependent? I just picked both of these up so I'll be testing it out - maybe with Grave Titan.

I'll take this one.

If I have Sneak Attack out or nearly out, then Empath -> Emrakul and sneak her in. Similarly I will sneak in Bellower, grab Empath -> Emrakul and do the same. Otherwise I will generally Empath for Inferno Titan to help handle the boardstate or just as a large threat. Typically I will reserve Bellower as a later GSZ target, and fetch either Witness or Tracker (or Empath if there is another 6 drop left to cast). This of course comes from Sneak Fit, I'm not really sure what other versions are playing with both Empath and Bellower. Don't think I've seen any others. Leftover Empath on the board is typically used for another Therapy activation.

[Arianrhod]

Do you think Vindicate can be an answer to Jace? I've been trying to figure out a good split for removal between Path/Deed/AD/Vindicate/Edict.

___

Also some random questions I've been pondering...

- Curious why Hymn has fallen out of favor. I don't see any of the current builds running that anymore.

- Has anyone tested Liliana Vess as a way to tutor for the right removal piece at the right time or is she just too slow against the decks where we would need such interaction?

- What lines of play are people running with Empath/Bellower? Do you use Bellower to fetch Empath and fetch a third threat (I guess this is the most value) or is it just game-state dependent? I just picked both of these up so I'll be testing it out - maybe with Grave Titan.

- Generally speaking, what do you guys feel is the right spread between removal and threats in a Junk build? Right now I'm thinking of the deck like this: (1) 23 lands; the "core" package of Top/Vet/CT/GSZ (takes up 15 slots); (3) 22 remaining slots split between threats and answers. Right now I'm running a pretty even split skewing planeswalker heavy. I'm thinking of testing a junk superfriends build that eschews creatures almost entirely for a controlling build. I tend to agree with many posters in this thread that tuning Nic Fit toward a mid-range creature setup is not the right way.

Vindicate and Pulse are both...fine. The problem is that if they get countered, you're out of gas. Punishing Fire, though.....Punishing Fire requires them to dilute their deck with garbage sideboard cards or accept the fact that their planeswalkers will never be safe. Yes, it chews up our time and resources (tempo) as well, but Big Blue Jace.dec gives us plenty of time to spend usually, so it's fine.

Hymn was basically only ever in straight GB versions, which have seen a slight resurgence recently largely thanks to the efforts of Brael -- talk to him for more details on that. Hymn was never a staple of tricolor Nic Fits -- it's too damaging to the manabase to be worth it as opposed to just flat Thoughtseize (or Canonist etc as other combo options).

Vess is generally too slow. People have tried her, but she just doesn't do enough at that stage of the game. Diabolic Intent is generally the agreed upon "extra tutor" for when you need such a thing.

Square already got to Empath + Bellower, so I'll refer you to his post.

Running more planeswalkers give you extra flex between removal and threat, which is an advantage of planeswalker control builds -- Garruk Relentless, Liliana of the Veil, Last Hope to a degree, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Karn & Ugin, etc are all both threat and removal. To compensate for their slowness, though, you usually need a faster sweeper than Deed to compliment them (ie 2 Deed 1 Deluge), and a suite of fast spot removal (Fatal Push, Path to Exile, StP, Bolt, etc). Then you need a couple of extra flexible answers (Decays, Vindicate and Pulse, etc) and season to taste. Something like 3 Path 2 Decay 2 Deed 1 Deluge 1 Vindicate 1 Pulse wasn't particularly uncommon prior to the printing of Fatal Push. I'm not sure where you'd go with it now, to be honest.

Hope that helps.


Bought Veteran Explorers and Deeds earlier today so I guess I'm coming back to Nic Fit for the fourth time. How have people liked To The Slaughter? Knowing Jace and Marit Lage are two of the decks biggest problems in the format, how have you guys found it to be? It seems insane

To the Slaughter is ridiculous and I've begun dabbling with it in other decks/formats as well -- I was screwing around with UB Landstill a couple weeks ago and it was insane in that deck. It's great in standard, and I'd probably run it in Faeries and Jund if planeswalkers really existed in modern to any appreciable degree. Solid 2-of in the sideboard here in my opinion, has a lot of uses.

[mstephenson]

Do you think Vindicate can be an answer to Jace? I've been trying to figure out a good split for removal between Path/Deed/AD/Vindicate/Edict.


- Generally speaking, what do you guys feel is the right spread between removal and threats in a Junk build? Right now I'm thinking of the deck like this: (1) 23 lands; the "core" package of Top/Vet/CT/GSZ (takes up 15 slots); (3) 22 remaining slots split between threats and answers. Right now I'm running a pretty even split skewing planeswalker heavy. I'm thinking of testing a junk superfriends build that eschews creatures almost entirely for a controlling build. I tend to agree with many posters in this thread that tuning Nic Fit toward a mid-range creature setup is not the right way.

Vidicate is an awesome card and I love running it in an abzan build, but the problem with it against jace is that they get to brainstorm first and if they arent already hellbent actually killing the jace gets a lot harder.

I wouldn't sleeve up a deck without 10 pieces of removal (3path/push 3 deacy 3 deed 1 pulse/vindicate is what I usually play) but I am on the high end of the spectrum of removal from what I have seen. I was also a fan of playing 4 planeswalkers because you can protect them pretty well with 10 removal spells.



Bought Veteran Explorers and Deeds earlier today so I guess I'm coming back to Nic Fit for the fourth time. How have people liked To The Slaughter? Knowing Jace and Marit Lage are two of the decks biggest problems in the format, how have you guys found it to be? It seems insane

For me the card has been insane every time I brought it in. Its gas at killing planeswalkers and marit lage. Against decks like shardless you can usually get a "2 for 1" although the creature is usually not a full card from them(damn agent) but getting additional value out of a card that is killing one of their walkers is still great.

[Echelon]

- Generally speaking, what do you guys feel is the right spread between removal and threats in a Junk build? Right now I'm thinking of the deck like this: (1) 23 lands; the "core" package of Top/Vet/CT/GSZ (takes up 15 slots); (3) 22 remaining slots split between threats and answers. Right now I'm running a pretty even split skewing planeswalker heavy. I'm thinking of testing a junk superfriends build that eschews creatures almost entirely for a controlling build. I tend to agree with many posters in this thread that tuning Nic Fit toward a mid-range creature setup is not the right way.

Go for 21/22 lands (depending on your build). You only really need 23 when your list is very top heavy (which it shouldn't be). As for a removal suite, you're looking at 4-6 spotremoval and 3 sweepers.

Even though you're going for planeswalkers I'd include GSZ (and at least 1 DRS). Veteran Explorer is that important.

[Purple Blood]

Thanks for all the replies folks. Really appreciated! Going to tinker around more with those thoughts in mind.

[Warden]

Thanks for all the replies folks. Really appreciated! Going to tinker around more with those thoughts in mind.

Ditto. Thanks for pointing out stuff like Demise not hitting TNN!

[Arianrhod]

Top 8'd at Mythic today, although I lost my match for top 4. Full report tomorrow.

Played vs a very mean lineup today:

Eli Kassis on BUG Delver in r1 (2-0)
Gary Yeager on Miracles in r2 (2-0)
Paolo Cesari on BUG Delver in r3 (2-1)
Timur Babakol on Dragonstompy in r4 (1-2, really shitty variance g2/g3)
Random on the 4c Breya Tezz deck (2-1, scary matchup to play vs for sure)
ID
Random on RUG Lands (0-2; turn 2 merit lage via 2x crop rot g1, topdeck singleton needle the turn before sneak+emrakul g2)

Good for a pair of foil Pushes and an expedition Sunken Ruins (ub filter) for modern. I'm okay with it for my first away event in months, lol.

[Bobmans]

Gratz Kevin,
any changes after this event?

[Memories of the Time]

Hello to everybody: in the last weeks i've tested a Doomsday Fit that has proved to be very nice and quite good, but it has a very bad MU against Burn and i'm finding lots of them in tournaments, so i've put it aside for the moment and i've retaken Nyx Fit.

Now, as said weeks ago my first concern when i touch a Brainstorm-less version of a Nic Fit deck is the manipulation and the whole "die for too many bad topdecks", plus the problem of playing many situational 1x without a consistent way to manage them (yep, beside of C.Brutality, not so efficient in this sense). Plus, i'm a big fan of the blue splash (even the red one could give nice thing, first of all Moon): Leovold is just too powerfull, and Zur's Weirding is too good against Miracle and Combo (and i love this card). Atraxa is another very good option, indeed, and the Juicy possibility of having her + Wave is amazing.

I've read that other people have reached the conclusion of cutting Eidolon of Blossoms: more generally, i think that the power of Starfield and Nyx Fit is that, even if it can exploit mechanics linked to a single-type card (ench) it doesn't need so many of them to be good. That's because to fuel Starfield a single Grove is enough good: that's a very strong thing, imho.

Also, i'm not so convinced by Recruiter, even if i proposed it pages ago: we have a wide range of creatures that he doesn't hit and, beside of Wave, not so many tricks or use for him. I would like to test more Eladamri's Call, if we want to have non-green creatures.

Anyway, even if Brainstorm is obv a fantastic card, probably i will stay low with blue count to Just Leovold, Atraxa and Zur's maindeck, with good options for the SB. But i want to have at least 3 top in this case.

To be clearer, a sketch of list, easily cutable to 60

// 61 Mazzo
// 3 Artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top

// 14 Creature
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
3 Academy Rector
1 Doomwake Giant
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice

// 12 Enchantment
3 Sterling Grove
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Living Plane
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Zur's Weirding
1 Humility
1 Parallax Wave

// 2 Instant
2 Abrupt Decay

// 21 Land
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Tropical Island
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs

// 1 Planeswalker
1 Nissa, Vital Force

// 8 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Collective Brutality

[square_two]

Anyway, even if Brainstorm is obv a fantastic card, probably i will stay low with blue count to Just Leovold, Atraxa and Zur's maindeck, with good options for the SB. But i want to have at least 3 top in this case.

I'm not sure that adding Leovold, Atraxa, and Zur's is a good enough reason to splash blue. You are running 1 less Rector as well as not including any Phyrexian Towers. Losing a Rector + 3 sac outlets seems pretty significant to me. Adding those 2 GSZ targets isn't exactly adding the ability to interact earlier (which is something I feel the deck struggles with). Losing the Towers is losing some explosive plays which help make up for less early interaction.

Zur's seems like an odd choice, but I'll admit I've never played with it before. Against Miracles, wouldn't you rather simply tutor for Starfield and then start getting a crapton of value with it? Game 1 they can't do anything to stop that, and having Grove means that you can assemble Deed to stop Mentor/Entreat, or grab a Fetters to stop Jace. Against combo, having something like Leyline of Sanctity (also great against Burn like you said you are facing) is something that storm can't deal with very well. Sneak/Show or Reanimator you already have Humility and Parallax Wave available. I'm just not seeing what Zur's really brings to the table that can't already be addressed - especially when the opponent can effect our draws as well.

[removedfromgame]

So I ran this list at my weekly last night to a respectable 3-1

4× verdant
2x windswept
2x flats
1x bayou
1x savannah
1x scrub land
1x phyrexian Tower
1x treetop village
1x dryad arbor
4x forest
3x swamp

15 creatures

2x veteran
3x deathrite
1x ooze
1x rec sage
1x tracker
1x witness
2x rhino
1x meren
1x thrun
1x thragtusk
1x tasigur

18 noncreatures

4x green sun
4x therapy
3x thoughtsieze
3x top
1x diabolic edict
3x abrupt decay
1x nights whisper
3x deed

3 walkers

2x lily of the veil
1x nissa, vital force

15 board

3x surgical
1x duress
2x lost legacy
2x pithing needle
2x lost legacy
1x qasali pridemage
1x toxic deluge
1x krosan grip
1x sylvan library
1x garruk relentless

So I had started tinkering with a straight gb build to have a better mana base and less clunky draws coming from a junk build. This proved to solve all of the early game and mana issues but I had a lot of difficulty actually closing out a game. No matter what I did nothing was as good as a rhino so I sighed profusely and jammed a savannah, a scrubland in and a pair of rhinos and went to the shop. I didn't play any path because I'm keeping the white requirement at the barest of minimums. This can admittedly be a mistake however I currently don't own any fatal pushes. I might main deck a dismember tho.

R1 vs manaless dredge.
Win the die roll. Keep a hand with a therapy a green sun. Played a land and passed since I had no idea what they were on. They pass their turn and pitch phantasmagorian. I wept internally. I put up a brave fight but my deathrite was too late to the party to help.

Game two I lead with deathrite and the game doesn't really go anywhere from there. After an unreasonable amount of turns and life gained he finally picks it up.

Game three is a little closer. I kept a hand with surgical and lost legacy. He forces the lost legacy. The surgical picks off his dread return. I untap on a turn with 4 mana. I green sun for ooze and after thinking about it he let's it resolve. It takes over the game in short order. He told me after he let it go that he didn't realize I had a green mana to activate it immediately and thought he could race it.
2-1

R2 vs Mardu midrange.
His deck looked like a lot of fun. Basically it comprised of death rite, stone forge, dark confidant, lingering souls, Chandra ToD, recruiter of the guard, with an assortment of equipment and R/W removal.

Game one we had a battle of the kaldesh walkers and Chandra stacks up a lot better when he kept piling on blockers and I didn't have enough removal. This game was the longest as we ground each other into top deck mode but he landed a batterskull with a follow up stone forge + SoF&I a few turns later. No answers and he had me for exactly.

Game two and three were kind of blurs. We traded resources a lot and my rhinos put in work. Eventually I managed to beat him down both games.
2-1

R3 vs shardless
This guy I've played a few times before. In what feels like a good match up he manages to have the answer every time. Game 1 I mulled to a reasonable five. He had the turn two hymn.

Game two we traded a lot more resources and it cumulating with him having a deathrite a true name a 4/5 goyf and a shardless on the field with two cards in hand. I had 5 mana and a top with a deed in hand. I spun and found a land, put it on the top of my library on his turn. He, on his turn plays the wasteland he drew for turn and nuked my dryad arbor (I didn't play the deed for fear of decay) leaving me without any real answers. I died the next turn.
0-2

Round 4 vs high tide combo.
I will admit I was slightly annoyed. I had a very "not like this" moment cause I didn't like my odds. Game one I have no real answers for him other than the tick tock of the rhino clock. At one point he goes off but then fizzles. Leaving him with zero cards in hand and a snap caster in play. It doesn't get better for him.

Game 2 I managed to lost legacy high tide out of his deck. Once looking through it realising that he can still chain enough storm together to maybe brain freeze me for something scary so I played in fear for a few turns until an ideas unbound pitched one of his two brain freezes and I snap surgical'd it. At this point he was on the snap caster beatdown plan and I play that game much, much better than he does.
2-0

The take away is that you can never leave home without your rhinos. They do an unbelievable amount for a big dumb creature. I never noticed a scenario in which I would have been better off with a path available to me, but I don't doubt that they exist. I just feel really bad having to run a clunky mana base and I'm so tired of seeing basic plains. My two duals were concessions to the scenarios where I can't just green sun for my pets. I never got to see tasigur. I want to believe though.

I also feel like I want a second tireless tracker as just another way to apply pressure. An early prototype had a glissa the traitor but obviously mediocre card is obviously mediocre. I'm gonna work on the side board and run it back next week.

:)

[Memories of the Time]

I'm not sure that adding Leovold, Atraxa, and Zur's is a good enough reason to splash blue. You are running 1 less Rector as well as not including any Phyrexian Towers. Losing a Rector + 3 sac outlets seems pretty significant to me. Adding those 2 GSZ targets isn't exactly adding the ability to interact earlier (which is something I feel the deck struggles with). Losing the Towers is losing some explosive plays which help make up for less early interaction.

I've always feared (confirmed by tournaments and tests) that an heavy fourth color is very difficult to manage, at least without 4 DRS. Moreover, in a deck that can often tutor like this one, 3 maindeck cards are not so few: the point is how much they add "something".

Leovold: one of the strongest card in this metagame. Seriously, he has made new decks possible, and everyone run him if they can: i don't think he needs explanation.

Atraxa: First of all, Burn is one of the 4 most present decks in italian tournaments. So if it won't be Atraxa, will be Rhino i think. I really want to have a good mu against Burn: also, every delver deck with Bolt could be a problem, since even if we destroy the board with Deed a Bolt-Snap-Bolt can easily kill us, for example. Atraxa is good and i really don't like Chromanticore or cards like that: personal taste.

@Zur's: Now, i know that this could seem an odd choice. But i've been playing Zur's in my deck almost everytime, and in these 4 years i've lost only one time against Miracle after have played it, and just because he already had a Wear/Tear in hand. There is no card like Zur's to end istantaneously the game against every deck that apply less pressure than us: there is pratically no escape. Starfield? They can just cantrip and search for a Council and remove Starfield, and it's not even sure that we have something in the graveyard.
Leyline of Sanctity is one of the weakest hate possible against Storm and the few other combo that it concerns: S&T, for example, don't give a **** about it. Even Burn, without a reliable lifegain, is not a gg with Leyline on board.

[square_two]

I've always feared (confirmed by tournaments and tests) that an heavy fourth color is very difficult to manage, at least without 4 DRS. Moreover, in a deck that can often tutor like this one, 3 maindeck cards are not so few: the point is how much they add "something".

Leovold: one of the strongest card in this metagame. Seriously, he has made new decks possible, and everyone run him if they can: i don't think he needs explanation.

Atraxa: First of all, Burn is one of the 4 most present decks in italian tournaments. So if it won't be Atraxa, will be Rhino i think. I really want to have a good mu against Burn: also, every delver deck with Bolt could be a problem, since even if we destroy the board with Deed a Bolt-Snap-Bolt can easily kill us, for example. Atraxa is good and i really don't like Chromanticore or cards like that: personal taste.

@Zur's: Now, i know that this could seem an odd choice. But i've been playing Zur's in my deck almost everytime, and in these 4 years i've lost only one time against Miracle after have played it, and just because he already had a Wear/Tear in hand. There is no card like Zur's to end istantaneously the game against every deck that apply less pressure than us: there is pratically no escape. Starfield? They can just cantrip and search for a Council and remove Starfield, and it's not even sure that we have something in the graveyard.
Leyline of Sanctity is one of the weakest hate possible against Storm and the few other combo that it concerns: S&T, for example, don't give a **** about it. Even Burn, without a reliable lifegain, is not a gg with Leyline on board.

By all means please try out the deck if it looks interesting and if you have these ideas. Last thing I want to do is steer people away from some juicy Nyx Fit testing. It just feels to me that you will be struggling to get your Rector triggers way more than the previous lists - with less Groves to protect your enchantments as well then it just seems like there's less of a point running the entire thing.

If you are up against a ton of Burn, though, I have a real hard time imagining nic fit in general as a good deck to be piloting. At the point where you can GSZ for Atraxa, Burn typically has already, or very nearly, emptied their hand. Think the best nic fit variant to fight Burn (especially if you are eschewing Leyline so quickly) would be Junk splashing blue, running a full playset of Rhinos + Atraxa and Leovold.

[Memories of the Time]

It just feels to me that you will be struggling to get your Rector triggers way more than the previous lists - with less Groves to protect your enchantments as well then it just seems like there's less of a point running the entire thing.

If you are up against a ton of Burn, though, I have a real hard time imagining nic fit in general as a good deck to be piloting. At the point where you can GSZ for Atraxa, Burn typically has already, or very nearly, emptied their hand. Think the best nic fit variant to fight Burn (especially if you are eschewing Leyline so quickly) would be Junk splashing blue, running a full playset of Rhinos + Atraxa and Leovold.

No doubt about the first part: i will test, as said. I will also try to just add a tropical and Zur+Leovold, taking back 3 Tower and 1/2 Eladamri Call or Recruiter of the Guard.
I think that a right built list of Burn is a problem for almost everything, except fast combo. Even Miracle, previously an auto-loss for Burn, with Exquisite Firecraft is beatable.

[Luthiereisfun]

On the topic of burn, I played against it last night. Cabal therapy seemed like one of the best cards against them in the early game. Deathrite Shaman was also an all star gaining life. Once I was able to stabilize somewhat kaya ghost assassin also did wonders. Her -1 to drain and gain 2 life is good and demands and answer from them unless they can kill you right then and there.

Honestly the matchup didn't feel bad but I need to play against it more. It's very probable I got lucky/them unlucky which is why it felt the way I did. I don't think the matchup is terrible though. Right?


I'm playing a pretty standard junk version with 3 rhino, 3 DRS, thragtusk and kaya as "life gain" with the typic 3 pte, 3 a decay and 3 deed as removal/sweeper

[Memories of the Time]

I think that you have a life-gain + removal pack that's way too bigger than other builds boss, i believe you when you say that you haven't feel Burn as a terrible MU =)

[Luthiereisfun]

I think that you have a life-gain + removal pack that's way too bigger than other builds boss, i believe you when you say that you haven't feel Burn as a terrible MU =)

really? correct me if I am wrong and maybe the newer builds don't, but I thought 3 pte and 3 abrupt decay with 3 deed was somewhat 'standard' at least for rhino builds. Some amount of Rhinos with Thragtusk also doesn't seem out of the ordinary. I will admit that most lists run 0-2 DRS but I run 3.

I like 3 because it means in my opener I very often have some amount of ramp, it's MD graveyard hate which I don't have a lot of, it gains life early on which can help us see the mid game where we shine, it blanks opposing DRS and in the matchups we side vet out I know I still have a manageable amount of dorks in the deck still.

EDIT: I might have read your original post wrong (darn internet). I would agree that most Rhino builds pack more lifegain/removal then the other nic fit variants.

[Echelon]

I run 3 DRS and 4 PtE + 3 Deeds as removal suite. But I tend to be kinda light on removal.

[Memories of the Time]

First of all, i totally agree about more DRS in midrange shells. I was talking about all versions of Nic Fit, for a Rhino build your pack is just a bit larger than usually but nothing too strange: as said before by square_two, rhino builds are the best positioned against burn =)

[square_two]

First of all, i totally agree about more DRS in midrange shells. I was talking about all versions of Nic Fit, for a Rhino build your pack is just a bit larger than usually but nothing too strange: as said before by square_two, rhino builds are the best positioned against burn =)

Do keep in mind that there are a few ok sideboard options such as Pulse of Murasa that are great against Burn as well as a lot of Delver matchups.

The only time I've ever 2-0'd Burn online came about a week ago when I was testing a 4 DRS 4 Strix 4 Tracker BUG Fit and had 3 Pulse sideboard. And a few Intuition to grab them if needed. Getting back either Tracker or Strix with Pulse feels really good.

[Endyx220]

Hi all,

Im very interested in Nic fit but wanted to ask a couple of questions,

I fell in love with the deck watching the pod version work, is BUG pod still viable?

Also, the atraxa builds with planeswalkers look super fun, but do they matchup well in the meta?

[Navsi]

Hi all,

Im very interested in Nic fit but wanted to ask a couple of questions,

I fell in love with the deck watching the pod version work, is BUG pod still viable?

Also, the atraxa builds with planeswalkers look super fun, but do they matchup well in the meta?

BUG pod is solidly viable. It's a bit on the inconsistent side because of the nature of a Birthing Pod deck - if you don't get Pod you're playing a pretty bad deck.

Atraxa walkers is great against all the grindy midrange decks and Miracles, but loses some points against D&T/Burn/Combo depending on how the deck is built.

[Vervandi]

I was watching a Nyx Fit vs. Death and Taxes last night on Youtube. Nyx Fit looks like it might be the most fun you could possibly have playing magic. I'm interested in building it as I have a lot of the cards already. Is there a viable way to build it without Living Plane, using another combo? I was thinking of enchanted evening + cleansing meditation but some sort of combo that could be better tutored would probably be a lot more ideal.

Here is a link to the video if anyone is interested in watching it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCyUo9Eh2c0

[Memories of the Time]

I've made more tests this evening, with a list closer to Navsi's one and just 1 tropical 1 Zur's and 1 Leovold + another Leovold and 2 Fluster by side, and a Siege Rhino instead of Atraxa (with 3 Tower etc).
I'm still not sure about the blue splash: Leovold is far stronger than Spirit and is zenithable, Zur's is the perfect 1x to have maindeck against Miracle and Combo, hitting almost every combo and closing the game against Miracles 99 times on 100. So it's a very little splash with just 1 land needed for a relatively good impact, but still happens to have Leovold in hand and no DRSs or Fetch in play... hard choice.

Anyway, the deck is incredible, i've understimated it the first times. 3 Tower are amazing, and with 3 zenith you can constantly rely on ramp, a very important thing.
Still, i'm not totally sold about Wave: Navsi, have you already explained this choice somewhere in the previous pages? I can't find it.

@Vervandi: what makes Living Plane+Giant enough good is the usefulness of the single cards by themselves: for example i've just won a game just playing Living Plane and attacking with 8 lands 1/1. Other case, if in same way they have removed giant and you have a good board position you can just play Plane and then sweep with Deed. Giant has a nice body by itself and so on. I hardly think that there could be better combo (but i will be amazed if it will be so)

[Arianrhod]

Been very sick the last week, still planning on getting that tournament report from Mythic posted before long, but I need to stop dying first.

[Brael]

I run 3 DRS and 4 PtE + 3 Deeds as removal suite. But I tend to be kinda light on removal.

I use the criteria in my decks of 14 interaction cards by which I mean a mix of discard/removal. It doesn't all have to be straight removal though, because I'll count cards like Master of the Wild Hunt or Garruk Relentless in that.

[Ulysse95]

I've made more tests this evening, with a list closer to Navsi's one and just 1 tropical 1 Zur's and 1 Leovold + another Leovold and 2 Fluster by side, and a Siege Rhino instead of Atraxa (with 3 Tower etc).
I'm still not sure about the blue splash: Leovold is far stronger than Spirit and is zenithable, Zur's is the perfect 1x to have maindeck against Miracle and Combo, hitting almost every combo and closing the game against Miracles 99 times on 100. So it's a very little splash with just 1 land needed for a relatively good impact, but still happens to have Leovold in hand and no DRSs or Fetch in play... hard choice.

Anyway, the deck is incredible, i've understimated it the first times. 3 Tower are amazing, and with 3 zenith you can constantly rely on ramp, a very important thing.
Still, i'm not totally sold about Wave: Navsi, have you already explained this choice somewhere in the previous pages? I can't find it.

@Vervandi: what makes Living Plane+Giant enough good is the usefulness of the single cards by themselves: for example i've just won a game just playing Living Plane and attacking with 8 lands 1/1. Other case, if in same way they have removed giant and you have a good board position you can just play Plane and then sweep with Deed. Giant has a nice body by itself and so on. I hardly think that there could be better combo (but i will be amazed if it will be so)

I initially put parallax wave in, so I can tell you why:

-it's a really good tempo card against any aggro deck + reanimator or sneak show deck and Marit Lage
-with E witness, you can loop it each turn
-with starfield and 3 more enchantements, you can exile definitly any amount of opponnent creatures and protect/trigger enter battlfield effects of yours

It's really a stapple of the deck

[jbone2016]

I know gaea's herald is meh. But what do we think about the new catsnek? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170330/7a9820a7188fbc9c93e8cae831113cf8.jpg

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[removedfromgame]

I know gaea's herald is meh. But what do we think about the new catsnek? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170330/7a9820a7188fbc9c93e8cae831113cf8.jpg

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Dies to everything. Great effect but no way of reliably keeping it on the battlefield to abuse it.

Edit: this thing is a 4/3?? Man I'm almost willing to just thrown it in anyway as a green sun target to get them beats down.

[Brael]

I know gaea's herald is meh. But what do we think about the new catsnek?

It probably beats Vexing Shusher, but was that really an effect we cared about in the first place? It doesn't stop GSZ from being countered, which is how we get our best cards 4/5 of the time.

[Arianrhod]

At 3/4 we would've been more in the market, but still not really interested. Shusher showed up once or twice in Scape as a way to get Scapes to resolve, but was never really that useful and didn't stick around whenever he was tried. Not making Zenith, in particular, uncounterable is very unfortunate and probably a dealbreaker. I think Shusher still does its job, better, for any decks that are just that hard up for that kind of effect.

[Vervandi]

I initially put parallax wave in, so I can tell you why:

-it's a really good tempo card against any aggro deck + reanimator or sneak show deck and Marit Lage
-with E witness, you can loop it each turn
-with starfield and 3 more enchantements, you can exile definitly any amount of opponnent creatures and protect/trigger enter battlfield effects of yours

It's really a stapple of the deck

Oh WOW! I didn't think about the interaction when parallax is a creature. That's really good.

[Echelon]

I use the criteria in my decks of 14 interaction cards by which I mean a mix of discard/removal. It doesn't all have to be straight removal though, because I'll count cards like Master of the Wild Hunt or Garruk Relentless in that.

In that case I hit 4 CT + 4 PtE + 3 Deed and + 1 Qasali Pridemage + 4 Green Sun's Zenith wherever it's applicable. So that's either 11 or 16. To compensate, I present more must-kills though.


At 3/4 we would've been more in the market, but still not really interested. Shusher showed up once or twice in Scape as a way to get Scapes to resolve, but was never really that useful and didn't stick around whenever he was tried. Not making Zenith, in particular, uncounterable is very unfortunate and probably a dealbreaker. I think Shusher still does its job, better, for any decks that are just that hard up for that kind of effect.

Well, at 3/4 it would have been a maybe for SBs. The effect is appealing for the Miracles MU, but the problem is that Miracles can easily answer a single creature.

Also... Serpopard..? WTF.


Oh WOW! I didn't think about the interaction when parallax is a creature. That's really good.

It's so good it's been a thing since 2000.

[Megadeus]

Played tonight for the first time in awhile. I feel like the miracles match up felt pretty decent in a junk version that was fairly planeswalker heavy. Beat one miracles player and the second I lost game 1 and just have him the win because I'm just tired of playing against that deck because it's not interesting.

[Brael]

In that case I hit 4 CT + 4 PtE + 3 Deed and + 1 Qasali Pridemage + 4 Green Sun's Zenith wherever it's applicable. So that's either 11 or 16. To compensate, I present more must-kills though.


I don't count GSZ's because I usually put them under the threat category. The card is versatile but it's only doing one thing at a time when you cast it.

Sometimes I count Pridemage, it depends on how much I'm trying to stretch to meet my requirements.

[itrytostorm]

After playing plenty of variants I think BUG w/ Traverse + Emrakul is the best version. Love how quickly we can end the game. And all the planeswalkers help with the 4c control and Miracles everywhere.

[Navsi]

After playing plenty of variants I think BUG w/ Traverse + Emrakul is the best version. Love how quickly we can end the game. And all the planeswalkers help with the 4c control and Miracles everywhere.

Got a list?

[square_two]

After playing plenty of variants I think BUG w/ Traverse + Emrakul is the best version. Love how quickly we can end the game. And all the planeswalkers help with the 4c control and Miracles everywhere.

I've been wondering what sort of adjustments I can make to my 4 DRS 4 Strix 4 Tracker list in place of Smokestack. This seems like a fun option.

[rubblekill]

I've been wondering what sort of adjustments I can make to my 4 DRS 4 Strix 4 Tracker list in place of Smokestack. This seems like a fun option.

I have built bug online and I now understand the insane power level of baleful strix. Better late than never.
By the way 2 Jace 2 lotv 2 nissa is just insane, they are the best walkers in their color and they stall the board very well.
Are you playing Leo on top of the full playset of trackers? The full greed-value deck in my dreams would be strix, tracker, leovold plus hymn to tourach. I don't think the mana base can handle this, we still want to have green mana on T1 consistently, but I will try everything to make his work

[Memories of the Time]

Another day of test with Nyx Fit: I hadn't been having this fun for quite some time, like since Sotf era. I'm totally in love with this deck :eek:
I've tried to maindeck Curse and Humility, leaving Giant and Parallax Wave in sb. I don't know how to feel about Wave: it's a nice card because can do many things and many tricks (and i love it), but it isn't even close to be a game-breaker like Himility. I've never tutored for it, and can't imagine how it can be better than Himility in like 95 cases over 100? If a list runs more etb creatures like Recruiter it becomes more and more alluring, of course, otherwise i think i'll go for a second Humility.

Similar reasons about Curse/Giant: sometimes Giant is better (like against an Angler, for example), but i think that the certainty of Curse is definitely better in too many Mu: for example, Giant leaves the possibility for Elves to play a creature+NO, where Curse just leave Nettle and Drs as outcome. It can be removed by stp by D&T and Miracle Mentor and so on.

Beside that, i'm still trying to figure out if the blue splash is enough good for the motivations said above, but i've found other cards that hasn't pleased me too much. My actual List:

// 60 Mazzo
// 3 Artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top

// 13 Creature
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
4 Academy Rector
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

// 12 Enchantment
3 Sterling Grove
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Zur's Weirding
1 Humility
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Living Plane

// 2 Instant
2 Abrupt Decay

// 21 Land
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Tropical Island
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Phyrexian Tower

// 1 Planeswalker
1 Nissa, Vital Force

// 8 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Collective Brutality


// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Creature
SB: 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
SB: 1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Doomwake Giant

// 7 Enchantment
SB: 1 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 City of Solitude
SB: 1 Parallax Wave
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red

// 3 Instant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Flusterstorm

// 1 Sorcery
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge


-Coursier: don't know what to think about her, she's good sometimes and a good card against Burn (a real danger in my meta, as said) and awesome with Grove, but i have never zenithated her and, obv, never tutored her by Rector. I don't really know what to think

-Giant: really dunno if it's needed. Same argument about Wave, Leyline and Seal of Primordium.

[Navsi]

I play Curse and Humility in my sideboard rather than the maindeck. Giant and Wave are in the main.

This is because while Curse & Humility are better when they're good, they're also complete garbage in a lot of matchups. Giant and Wave's worst-case scenarios are a lot less common - Doomwake still threatens to kill the opponent even if they're on Storm, and Wave can save your creatures from removal and/or go infinite with Starfield even if your opponent is creatureless (or beat down when animated) rather than actively shutting your game plan down against some decks like Humility does. Humility also is a nonbo with Doomwake (which I prefer in my maindeck for the reasons above) and is bad against Miracles where Wave is actually pretty handy (since you can apply pressure to Jaces and not need to worry about entreat so much, or save your creatures from removal).

I recognise that Recruiter makes my choices better than they would be otherwise, though. I do think that running 1-2 recruiters really helps the deck's consistency. The build you have is even heavier on the 4-5cmc bombs than mine which worries me a lot - it'll be deadly when it goes off but stumble a lot of the time.

[Arianrhod]

Sell me on Chromanticore. Just a concession to Delver?

[Paranoid__Android]

So, after a year and half of not playing legacy, there was a casual legacy FNM in Zagreb, capitol of Croatia. Since I was there, I've decided to go and have some fun. There were 10 of us, and decks were (I think):
2x Nic Fit
1x Sneak & Show
1x Combo Elves
1x Goblins
1x Miracles
1x Standstill homebrew
1x Tezzerator (homebrew I think)
1x Death and Taxes
1x Modern Abzan Midrange

This was my list I've played. Since I wasn't playing for so much time, I've decided to have some fun playing random cards and beaters.

Mainboard:

2x Forest
2x Plains
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Ctacombs
4x Windswept Heath
2x Bayou
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Phyrexian Tower

4x Veteran Explorer
2x Deathrite Shaman
1x Eternal Witness
1x Qasali Pridemage
4x Siege Rhino
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Dragonlord Dromoka
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Thragtusk

4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Pernicious Deed
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Vindicate
1x Painful Truths
3x Path to Exile
2x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis

Sideboard:
1x Pithing Needle
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Extirpate
1x Duress
2x Lost Legacy
1x Ethersworn Cannonist
1X Engineered Plague
1x Golgari Charm
2x Krosan Grip
2x Tsunami
1x Garruk Relentless


Round 1: Tezzerator 2:1

He started with a Chalice on 1 with Ancient Tomb, and I was so scared that he was playing Eldrazi. I've lost game one in less than 10 minutes. I've sided in RoP, Extirpate and Duress. Game 2 was easy with double Rhinos, and dealing with Ensnaring Bridge. Game 3 was a close one. PDeed cleared the board and Elspeth was online. Topdecked GSZ into Sigarda and started attacking. He was flooded. I've drew Extirpate, thought for a second to look his graveyard and saw Ens. Bridge, played it and removed them. And I was so lucky. There was one on the top of the library. Exiled them, and attacked for lethal.

Round 2: Goblins 2:0

Game 1 he had a mulligan to 5. I've started with Therapy hitting 2 Lackeys. There were 2x lands and a Matron. His hand was empty in two turns, and then double Rhinos sealed the deal. Game 2 was so close. Plague was keeping me alive. Ringleader slowed me so much, he revealed 3x goblins (one lord) and attacked me for 9. I've topdecked Golgari Charm and killed them all. Round was done in less than 15 minutes.

Round 3: Nic Fit 0:1

Game 1 I was to damn flooded. Everything I drew was lands (almost). I was playing against this guy before, beat him 2:0 I think, and the list was exactly the same. Fierce Empath into White/Black Titan, Kitchen Finks, 1x LotV, 1x Sigarda, etc. Game 2 was so damn slow. Topdeck mode saved him. He had an active SDTop and had control almost all of the time. We went into time and that was it. I scooped.

Round 4: Combo Elves 2:1

Game 1 Cabal Therapy bought me some time, but he rushed me with Shaman exiles and attacks with his creatures. No Deed at all. I've sided in creature hate. Game 2 was kinda slow with me reccuring Witness for Golgari Charm and Path to buy me some time for a finisher. Rhino and Sigarda killed him. Last game I was so tired, I pray to Nic Fit god now for not missplaying. I've cleared the board for 2 times, I was on 2 life. GSZ into Dromoka, then Sorin for creature control, and voila, another win.

Second place, MM3 booster, opened a Sphinx's Revelation.

So, to conclude, I need some tips on how to play against mirror. That thing is so hard for me to play against. Any tips/suggestions? TnQ in advance! :)

[Navsi]

Sell me on Chromanticore. Just a concession to Delver?

Beats Delver single handedly.
Zenithable pressure.
Rector target that doesn't need other combo pieces to be good. (this is actually really important)
Blocks Marit Lage forever with Starfield
Beats any fair deck (not just Delver, Leovold BUG can't kill or race it either if you play around Liliana) unless they have Swords *and* you don't have Sterling Grove.
Can be pitched to Collective Brutality in an emergency.

I could see dropping it for a Sigarda but imo it's better in the deck than she is, just because of all the synergies and the Lifelink.

[Memories of the Time]

I play Curse and Humility in my sideboard rather than the maindeck. Giant and Wave are in the main.

This is because while Curse & Humility are better when they're good, they're also complete garbage in a lot of matchups. Giant and Wave's worst-case scenarios are a lot less common - Doomwake still threatens to kill the opponent even if they're on Storm, and Wave can save your creatures from removal and/or go infinite with Starfield even if your opponent is creatureless (or beat down when animated) rather than actively shutting your game plan down against some decks like Humility does. Humility also is a nonbo with Doomwake (which I prefer in my maindeck for the reasons above) and is bad against Miracles where Wave is actually pretty handy (since you can apply pressure to Jaces and not need to worry about entreat so much, or save your creatures from removal).

I recognise that Recruiter makes my choices better than they would be otherwise, though. I do think that running 1-2 recruiters really helps the deck's consistency. The build you have is even heavier on the 4-5cmc bombs than mine which worries me a lot - it'll be deadly when it goes off but stumble a lot of the time.

One amazing thing i've noticed with my list is that it has almost touched the point where removal isn't usefull against it. Playing 8 sac outlets is huge, and other creatures just fulfill a role that often doesn't require them to remain in the battlefield. Curse is, for example, way better against Miracle, and i don't see the great usefulness of Wave against Jace+Mentor to protect it. If you have Starfield you don't really care about Wave when you can simply make a deed every turn, right? While jace remains their only reliable win-condition (good point for both our versions, i think).
You said that my list is heavier (how many slots? i don't think so many, eh), but in my experience Recruiter slow down your game, because making a recruiter+Rector is 7 mana, 8 with tower.
Another card i can't understand in your list is maindeck Aegis: why?

[Megadeus]

How often would you say that you lock your opponent out with Curse + Living Plane?

[Ulysse95]

How often would you say that you lock your opponent out with Curse + Living Plane?

1 game on two or three I would say
Sometimes the opponnent concede before or it's overkill

[Memories of the Time]

1 game on two or three I would say
Sometimes the opponnent concede before or it's overkill

This^
Much more often then what i was thinking before, anywyay

[Navsi]

One amazing thing i've noticed with my list is that it has almost touched the point where removal isn't usefull against it. Playing 8 sac outlets is huge, and other creatures just fulfill a role that often doesn't require them to remain in the battlefield. Curse is, for example, way better against Miracle, and i don't see the great usefulness of Wave against Jace+Mentor to protect it. If you have Starfield you don't really care about Wave when you can simply make a deed every turn, right? While jace remains their only reliable win-condition (good point for both our versions, i think).
You said that my list is heavier (how many slots? i don't think so many, eh), but in my experience Recruiter slow down your game, because making a recruiter+Rector is 7 mana, 8 with tower.
Another card i can't understand in your list is maindeck Aegis: why?

I haven't really tried the removal-immunity plan much, but if we do go down that line we already have Sterling Grove. Curse is better against Miracles in that it permanently slows them down, but they aren't particularly vulnerable anyway (not like it stops Entreat - still need a Deed) and Doomwake also applies pressure.
Humility is only good if you're under pressure from large creatures. Wave helps in that situation too, but also helps you to attack through if the board is relatively even (which admittedly is gonna happen more if you have other guys).

Recruiter slows down the game, but he's still a play you can make at only 3 mana and can fetch Explorer if you stumble. If you're using those slots for extra Starfield etc then suddenly you're more vulnerable to getting beaten to death by Goyfs. Recruiter also lets you find Rector more which means you can actually find that cards that are good in a matchup, so you have lower odds of ending up with deed/starfield against Lands, or Curse/Doomwake against Reanimator or whatever.

Aegis is mainly there so a single Rector trigger lets me actually stop Storm or other noninteractive combo decks. Otherwise you have no way of interacting with them even if you do do well.

[Memories of the Time]

@Grove: Dunno, in my list i often use the first grove to tutor and it's often very good, so it doesn't stay in the board too much (also, dies with Deed like our small creatures). Against Miracle having Grove+creatures is obv good, but why bother when you can tutor Zur's/starfield and win? Curse is amazing against Mentor, that is much more present in Miracle lists than Entreat (there again, Giant do nothing against them).
I've found Humility incredibly good against most of decks, especially when you are against big creatures like Angler (without Strix it could be a pain) or Eldrazi. Plus, Humility is pretty much GG in many games and it's permanent, when Parallax can for example remove 3 creatures for 2 turns? Sometime it could be enough, many (in my experience) other times no.

I'm still unsure about Rector, or why prefer him over Eladamri's call.

Aegis: i don't see many Storm or other combo that are touched by Aegis. In italy i find many S&T, Reanimator and Elves, for example (another good reason to play humility).

Edit: long story short, i'm thinking about cutting 1 gsz and maybe Coursier and try Eladamri/Recruiter, trying to make the deck even more removal- resistence.

[square_two]

How often would you say that you lock your opponent out with Curse + Living Plane?

Surprisingly often. Last time I ran Nyx Fit through two leagues, it felt like the main win con. Sometimes the first rector target is doomwake or curse which stabilizes you. Then it's just one more rector or grove search away from winning. People don't see it coming at all.

I've wondered if adding a second Plane as well as having both Curse and Doomwake in the main could be good.

[Luthiereisfun]

Do the Nyx fit lists not run enlightened tutor because you already have rector and it's card disadvantage? Seems like a card that could slot right in but understand stuff that looks good on paper does not mean what a deck needs or wants

[HoneyT]

Hey guys, been awhile, been avoiding this thread for some time because... reasons.

Anyway, thought I would drop by and share the latest concoction I've been working on.

Without further ado:


// Deck: Traverse Fit (61)

// Lands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold

// Creatures
4 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Ætherling

// Spells
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Fatal Push
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Painful Truths
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Damnation
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Invasive Surgery
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 To the Slaughter
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge

Played it at local legacy event last night to a middling 2-2 finish beating Storm and 4c goodstuff and losing to BUG and Imperial Bomberman.

Deck is very good. The losses were very close and due to variance, mana flood/mana screw which happens with anything. Definitely felt favored to win even the matches I lost.

That's it, I'll check back periodically for awhile. Hit me up with any questions.

[Navsi]

That list looks awesome.

Is Aetherling the six drop you want? Seems like you already have inevitability against control with Emrakul and could get better use out of a faster clock like Grave Titan.

[Plm]

@ Luthiereisfun : nyxfit doesn't play E.tutor because we already play rector (as noted) but also grove which is a 3 mana E.tutor in the worst case but also protect your enchantments and is a late game engine by itself (getting starfield and looping grove is powerfull).

[lavafrogg]

I was searching the internet and just discovered Altar of Bone, has there ever been a GW Nic Fit Build that could turn 2 Altar away a Veteran Explorer into a Gaddock Teeg(against combo obvi)?

Seems like it could warrant some discussion.

I keep getting stuck between Altar of Bone and a Evolutionary Leap build to sac the Explorer into another Explorer..... nerdgasm....

[Bobmans]

I was searching the internet and just discovered Altar of Bone, has there ever been a GW Nic Fit Build that could turn 2 Altar away a Veteran Explorer into a Gaddock Teeg(against combo obvi)?

Seems like it could warrant some discussion.

I keep getting stuck between Altar of Bone and a Evolutionary Leap build to sac the Explorer into another Explorer..... nerdgasm....
Diabolic Intent?

[Memories of the Time]

I was thinking, in the question about Recruiter ecc, that if we are playing a cc3 card to gain a cc4 card with problems attached to obtain a cc4-5, why don't run a 1-2x of Idyllic Tutor and just pay 3 +4/5 without other problem?

[Ulysse95]

So, on friday I played the last chance trial for the Paris Eternal Week-End (this week-end) and it was...epic!
I bring in Sneak Fit as I wasn't fond of my last times running Nyx Fit (need some more time to rebuild it).
And to begin with I was...late! Due to trafic jam, I came in just after the sit-all and still had to write down my list. Which resulted in a game loss for the first of round 1.

Resume of my tournament:

R1: game loss into 2:1 against grixis delver
R2: 2:1 vs Sneak-Show
R3: 2:1 vs Goblin
R4: 2:1 vs Sneak-Show
R5: 2:0 vs D&T

So I won 2 bye for saturday tournament, unfortunately I wasn't able to assist it because it was sold out.
Before the last round I asked a judge for what was possible as split but he told me it wasn't possible as byes was winconditionned..

The list:

Creatures

4 vet
1 DRS
1 STE
1 witness
2 empath
1 tracker
1 thragtusk
1 primeval T
1 infernal T
1 bellower
1 Emrakul

Artefact

3 SDT

Enchantement

3 deed
4 sneak attack

Instant

2 decay

Sorcery

4 GSZ
4 cabal
2 collective brutality

PW

2 Nissa, VF

Lands

4 verdant
4 foothill
2 bayoo
1 badland
1 taïga
2 phy tower
1 stroghold
3 forest
2 swamp
2 mountain

SB

1 Leovold
3 carpet of flowers
3 surgical
2 extirpate
3 slaughter games
1 reclamation sage
2 thoughtseize

Round 1 vs grixis delver

G1 game loss for being late

G2
T1 vet /him DRS
T2 tower sac vet (he didn't look for any land) then I cast collective brutality on discard+kill DRS modes. His hand: 2 Lily, 1 fow, 1 ponder, 2 lands. I choose ponder.
After that I cabal Lily, then GSZ vet into cabal fow.
EoT state: his board 1 land. Mine 6 lands. His hand of 2 lands, mine of a bellower.
T3 draw and cast primeval titan into concession.

G3
Basically he overextended himself, I kept discard to get eventual fow into deed (young pyro, 2 delver and a DRS). I decay a new pyro and a few turns later I sneak a fetched Emrakul for the win

Round 2 vs sneak show

G1
He T3 S&T into Emrakul. I put in sneak attack. But no steack in hand, no zenith, no empath. I play TTracker and a clue. I can absorb an Emrakul attack keeping Tracker, Sneak, 3 lands and 2 new clues. Eot I draw out a clue.
My turn I draw, extra draw out a clue but still no steack

Side
In: 3 slaughter, 2 seize, 2 carpet (he played karakas, ancient tomb and lotus petal), 3 surgical, reclamation sage
Out: STE, 2 Nissa, Thragtusk, Inferno, 2 decay, 3 deed, tracker

G2
I slow him discarding a S&T, he put in sneack attack, I slaughter Emrakul: he concede (unusual version with no grisel for sneack nor cunning wish for omniscience)

G3
Discard is still key. He plays a Jace mind sculptor. I sneak into Emrakul for the win.

Round 3 vs gob

G1 Both on mull 5, he ran gas I didn't find Vet nor GSZ. But he didn't find out my deck.

G2 a couple of vet and sneak Mama for the win

G3 He surprised me with a containment priest (probably a new add since he played it in ritual). He needle on deed. But had not a lot of gas. I think I decayed needle to deed and fierce into Inferno Titan for the win


Round 4 vs Sneak Show

G1 lost to S&T Emrakul. I put in an Inferno just in case of a fizzeling omnitell..but no ^^'

SB as before.

G2
T1 I cabal on S&T. It's not here, but ponder, bs, Emrakul, 2 petals and lands.
T2 interesting play I vet into flashback cabal with a surgical in hand. After fetching lands he bs. Before resolving cabal I surgical bs. So his new hand is s&t and sneak + both petals and lands. And two Emrakul on top are shuffled away. So I named again S&T. I play top. On his turn he plays Sneack. I was planning on GSZ reclamation sage but I saw him with top.
T3 So I play reclamation sage to burst his sneak.
A few turn(s) later I sneack Mama to avenge me.

G3
Some discards of s&t, a sage on a sneak
He succeed into the breach Grisel.
I saw his hand on a discard spell, with a lot of things to hit (intuition, Emrakul, Sneak, 2 bs). I hit sneak, knowing I have Emrakul on top with top in play. He protect his and from my cabal with bs, draws intuition into 3 s&t that he plays. I top draw Emrakul in response for the win. He had already played 1 throught the breach and 2 sneak in the grave so he couldn't do otherway he told me.

Round 5

The first game I sneak him with Emrakul.

The second one, he feared sneak so much that I finally empath into inferno. He forbid me to play it for a few turns with 2 rishadan with needle on sneak and confinement priest. So I had to draw either way a fetch to get my second red, a decay or a deed. At least the fetch come and that's it...

[Luthiereisfun]

So, on friday I played the last chance trial for the Paris Eternal Week-End (this week-end) and it was...epic!
I bring in Sneak Fit as I wasn't fond of my last times running Nyx Fit (need some more time to rebuild it).
And to begin with I was...late! Due to trafic jam, I came in just after the sit-all and still had to write down my list. Which resulted in a game loss for the first of round 1.

Resume of my tournament:

R1: game loss into 2:1 against grixis delver
R2: 2:1 vs Sneak-Show
R3: 2:1 vs Goblin
R4: 2:1 vs Sneak-Show
R5: 2:0 vs D&T

So I won 2 bye for saturday tournament, unfortunately I wasn't able to assist it because it was sold out.
Before the last round I asked a judge for what was possible as split but he told me it wasn't possible as byes was winconditionned..

The list:

Creatures

4 vet
1 DRS
1 STE
1 witness
2 empath
1 tracker
1 thragtusk
1 primeval T
1 infernal T
1 bellower
1 Emrakul

Artefact

3 SDT

Enchantement

3 deed
4 sneak attack

Instant

2 decay

Sorcery

4 GSZ
4 cabal
2 collective brutality

PW

2 Nissa, VF

Lands

4 verdant
4 foothill
2 bayoo
1 badland
1 taïga
2 phy tower
1 stroghold
3 forest
2 swamp
2 mountain

SB

1 Leovold
3 carpet of flowers
3 surgical
2 extirpate
3 slaughter games
1 reclamation sage
2 thoughtseize

Round 1 vs grixis delver

G1 game loss for being late

G2
T1 vet /him DRS
T2 tower sac vet (he didn't look for any land) then I cast collective brutality on discard+kill DRS modes. His hand: 2 Lily, 1 fow, 1 ponder, 2 lands. I choose ponder.
After that I cabal Lily, then GSZ vet into cabal fow.
EoT state: his board 1 land. Mine 6 lands. His hand of 2 lands, mine of a bellower.
T3 draw and cast primeval titan into concession.

G3
Basically he overextended himself, I kept discard to get eventual fow into deed (young pyro, 2 delver and a DRS). I decay a new pyro and a few turns later I sneak a fetched Emrakul for the win

Round 2 vs sneak show

G1
He T3 S&T into Emrakul. I put in sneak attack. But no steack in hand, no zenith, no empath. I play TTracker and a clue. I can absorb an Emrakul attack keeping Tracker, Sneak, 3 lands and 2 new clues. Eot I draw out a clue.
My turn I draw, extra draw out a clue but still no steack

Side
In: 3 slaughter, 2 seize, 2 carpet (he played karakas, ancient tomb and lotus petal), 3 surgical, reclamation sage
Out: STE, 2 Nissa, Thragtusk, Inferno, 2 decay, 3 deed, tracker

G2
I slow him discarding a S&T, he put in sneack attack, I slaughter Emrakul: he concede (unusual version with no grisel for sneack nor cunning wish for omniscience)

G3
Discard is still key. He plays a Jace mind sculptor. I sneak into Emrakul for the win.

Round 3 vs gob

G1 Both on mull 5, he ran gas I didn't find Vet nor GSZ. But he didn't find out my deck.

G2 a couple of vet and sneak Mama for the win

G3 He surprised me with a containment priest (probably a new add since he played it in ritual). He needle on deed. But had not a lot of gas. I think I decayed needle to deed and fierce into Inferno Titan for the win


Round 4 vs Sneak Show

G1 lost to S&T Emrakul. I put in an Inferno just in case of a fizzeling omnitell..but no ^^'

SB as before.

G2
T1 I cabal on S&T. It's not here, but ponder, bs, Emrakul, 2 petals and lands.
T2 interesting play I vet into flashback cabal with a surgical in hand. After fetching lands he bs. Before resolving cabal I surgical bs. So his new hand is s&t and sneak + both petals and lands. And two Emrakul on top are shuffled away. So I named again S&T. I play top. On his turn he plays Sneack. I was planning on GSZ reclamation sage but I saw him with top.
T3 So I play reclamation sage to burst his sneak.
A few turn(s) later I sneack Mama to avenge me.

G3
Some discards of s&t, a sage on a sneak
He succeed into the breach Grisel.
I saw his hand on a discard spell, with a lot of things to hit (intuition, Emrakul, Sneak, 2 bs). I hit sneak, knowing I have Emrakul on top with top in play. He protect his and from my cabal with bs, draws intuition into 3 s&t that he plays. I top draw Emrakul in response for the win. He had already played 1 throught the breach and 2 sneak in the grave so he couldn't do otherway he told me.

Round 5

The first game I sneak him with Emrakul.

The second one, he feared sneak so much that I finally empath into inferno. He forbid me to play it for a few turns with 2 rishadan with needle on sneak and confinement priest. So I had to draw either way a fetch to get my second red, a decay or a deed.

How was the collective brutality and abrupt decay as your only spot removal? Did you ever want more or with the 3 deeds it felt fine? Nice job on the wins and tournament report!

[Ulysse95]

How was the collective brutality and abrupt decay as your only spot removal? Did you ever want more or with the 3 deeds it felt fine? Nice job on the wins and tournament report!

Hi!

As I think as Sneak Fit more as a combo deck than a control deck, I think it's enought.
I used to run 2 thoughtseize MD. The collective brutality took their place and I love it. Against some decks it's a downgrade duress, against some it's an early spot removal, and some times gain life. But some times it does both or it's used at sac outlet. In short, I love it's flexibility.

As I said, it deserves the same purpose as thougtseize to smug in a key piece. But sometimes (often) it does more.

Then you have big crea to tempo against agro, inferno as midle removal and thusk for life tempo.

I felt Arian deck really solid and consistent.

[Ulysse95]

Interesting fact: I saw an other sneak fit player but didn't find time to talk with him. I saw the end of his match at 3/1, don't know how he ended. Firstname is Bart.

[Chatto]

Interesting fact: I saw an other sneak fit player but didn't find time to talk with him. I saw the end of his match at 3/1, don't know how he ended. Firstname is Bart.

Could be a mate of mine, I know he was on Sneak. Will ask him to post here.

[Paranoid__Android]

Hello, I'm posting this for the Nic Fit player I've played against this friday. Help appreciated!

''Creature:
4 veteran explorer
1 quasali pridemage
1 gaddock teeg
1 scavenging ooze
1 kitchen finks
1 fierce empath
1 eternal witness
1 siege rhino
1 thragutusk
1 sigarda,host of herons
1 sun titan
1 grave titan

tutor:
4 green sun's zenith
1 diabolic intent

disruption:
4 cabal therapy
2 swords to plowshares
4 abrupt decay
1 maelstorm pulse
2 liliana of the veil
3 pernicious deed

utility:
3 sensei's divining top
1 sylvan library
1 recurring nightmare


lands:
3 swamp
3 forest
2 plains
1 karakas
1 pyrexian tower
4 verdant catacomb
2 marsh flats
2 windswepth heath
1 bayou
1 scrubland
1 savannah

sideboard:
4 thoughtseize
4 carpet of flowers
2 surgical extraction
2 extirpate
1 council's judgement
1 magister of worth
1 pernicious deed
Yes 62 cards MD,however it works for me.Adore sun titan/pernicious deed lock.Empath is a bit slow but allows me to tutor titans/magister.Maren is nice witch i witnessed firsthand yesterday when playing against mirror.I played that guy before(0:2 loss).
Played against sneak and show round 1,2:1 win
game 1 I've won of lucky draw gaddock teeg,witch I've played after flashbacked therapy nabbed show and tell and reveal to me that he has sneak attack and emrakul in hand.
game 2 emarkul annhilated my board,tried to dig up Lotv or karakas.No luck.
game 3 truckload of discard and a bit of pressure disabled him to dig for 14 after I sworded his grizlebrand than sworded him again in response to his draw.
Played against combo elves round 2,(2:0 win).
game 1 sworded turn 1 drop,killed turn 2 drop,explorer into therapy nabbed Natural Order.Pernicious deed fallowed.After that assembled sun titan/deed lock.
game 2 was similar but at a point he had 5 guys out and I had Lotv and explorer out,deed in gy,six lands and sun titan in hand.Sacrificed veteran to lotv(sending them both to gy)to get 2 extra lands and land titan witch returned deed,killed everything and locked him out.
Played against mirror round 3,(1:0 win).
game 1 he was flooded and I had an active top but was struggling to find mana,once I found lands it was over.
game 2 was long and was mostly a staring contest,despite his maren but I had an active top.Due to time restrains ware unable to finish it.It could have gone either way but to finish 3 games would take forever.
Played against goblins round 4,(2:1 win).
game 1 turn 1 explorer into turn 2 therapy witch took 2 piledrivers and a ringleader.Soon after I locked him out with titan/deed.
game 2 two active vials and no deed in sight,it came to late.
game 3 early pressure witch was negated by finks,siege rhino and thragtusk in that order.Found deed and soon after found titan.Lock and win.

Playing gaddock teeg despite him being a hamper to gsz,but I needed something to deal with storm/miracles preboard,especially given the fact that there is little chance we will have the time to play 2 games(3 is pure fantasy).
Was pleased how deck performed.An awkward situation happened;while a had an active gaddock teeg my opponent played elspeth.After a second I noticed and informed him about it(wasn't deliberate)so he simply returned it to his hand,but I topdecked therapy and played it naming elspeth.I knew he had it in hand and I didn't have an answer to resolved elspeth but it did feel bad.I'm considering replacing council's judgement with garruk,apex pradator.
Would appreciate comments/suggestions,thanks.''

[Arianrhod]

Glad to hear people are doing well with Sneak. The Brutalities are a very interesting idea for sure. What were you usually discarding to them for extra text (ie, if you wanted Duress + Disfigure, as vs the delver player)? My biggest concern with them is that they might be too dead vs Miracles. Like yeah, you can use them as a Duress -- but that's not exactly the best feeling, I'm sure. Miracles is generally a good enough matchup that it might be fine to have a couple more dead-ish cards in the deck, but it's something to keep an eye on for sure I think.

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Inferno Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Punishing Fire
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Sneak Attack
3 Pernicious Deed

3 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Nissa, Vital Force

3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills

sb::
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Slaughter Games
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 To the Slaughter

This is the list I took to Mythic last week. I'm feeling a bit better, so I'm going to type up a report now. It'll be a bit shorter than I had originally intended, but I have a couple of salient points that I want to go over.

Rd 1: Eli Kassis with BUG Delver

Game one was basically a crushing. He didn't do anything particularly relevant, and I ground the game out while staying at a high life total until Sneak+Zenith->Empath->Momma happened. He clung on for a turn with 1 land in play in hopes of topdecking something (or just seeing more of my deck, perhaps), but I found Inferno, I think?, and killed him. Might've been PFire. Not sure anymore.

Game two I kept a sketchy 1-lander (basic forest with a Deathrite) that had basically everything I wanted in the matchup, including a Toxic Deluge. I just needed to draw into lands. Eli also kept a 1-lander, but being a blue deck, he had cantrips, so he dug out faster after winning the Deathrite war (he had one of his own, and a Push for mine). He eventually assembles a board of DRS, Delver, Goyf vs my board of Forest + Volrath's Stronghold, after Forcing my Sakura-Tribe Elder and trying to keep me in the pit for just long enough to close. I topdeck Phyrexian Tower. He has one card in hand which I'm pretty sure is a Fatal Push (that he flipped Delver off of, but I missed him Brainstorm+shuffling; his unknown card was a Brainstorm), so I Z@1 for VetX, sac it, Deluge to put myself at 6 but him at no board, and then Tireless Tracker runs away with the game from there. Tower was a very good draw, but basically any land would've done the same thing.

Rd 2: Gary with Miracles

Gary's top 8'd at Mythic a fair bit, and I remembered him as being a Miracles player. Basically, I can sum up g1 as being a 30 something minute slog. His build for the day was a strange mix -- he had Enlightened Tutors, RIP+Helm, maindeck Ensnaring Bridge and Back to Basics, Venser and Clique with Karakas, and a bunch of other nonsense. The maindeck RIPs made my deck a lot worse against him, actually, since it turned off Punishing Fire and Volrath's Stronghold, which are both usually all-stars in the matchup. I basically had to get him into a position where I had an onboard Sneak and I had run him low on Terminuses, which was not the easiest thing in the world to do, especially since I'd had to fight with a Jace for most of the game -- I think he had him on turn 5 and he stuck around forever without Punishing Fire to help clean him up. Anyway, I eventually Emrakul'd him with like 20 minutes left on the clock.

Game two was much easier. Slaughter Games x2 took away his Helm and his Jaces, which left him with Entreat x1 and Venser/Clique as wincons. He blew his Entreat early and I was able to clean it up with a little incidental help from his own Ensnaring Bridge. Bryant pointed out a couple of things I could've done to be more aggressive in closing the game, but honestly, after having one game 1 and stripped his wincons in g2, I wasn't too concerned with winning so much as not losing -- I won the match at that point regardless. Technically correct play to be more aggressive, though; it might matter in different situations. Note that I did actually win game 2 some couple seconds before the round went to turns.

Rd 3: Paolo Cesari with BUG Delver

Paolo's build was different than Eli's -- it had Bobs, Stifles, and Thoughtseizes (bobs and thoughtseizes were, I think, sideboard). He also had Winter Orb x2 which came in vs me. I don't remember much of games 1 and 2 other than that we split them and they were both pretty hard fought. Game 3 was a textbook example of Carpet of Flowers carrying its weight in gold. I had turn 1 Carpet on the play, which is normally not the best thing in the world vs BUG Delver (they have Bayou, etc) -- but Paolo had Winter Orb on turn 2. That Carpet singlehandedly won me the game and the match. We ground on for quite a while, and he did get me to within one or two turns of death before I used some Sneak chicanery with Inferno Titan to finish him off. The only way I got him low enough was by choosing to allow him to keep his Bob, which did just enough damage to him to get him within Inferno trigger + swing trigger death.

Rd 4: Timur with Dragonstompy

Game one he Moons me on turn 1. I respond by Sneak+Emrakuling him on turn 5 or so. Red cards!

Game two he hits runner runner runner Fiery Confluence to the dome to kill me the turn before he was dead on board. He also Chaliced on 2 when I happened to have all 3 Punishing Fires in my hand. Welp.

Game three I kept a kinda soft 1-lander with Top, Sneak, and Emrakul. My Top never shows me a land before like turn 7 and I die a horrible death.

Unlucky.

Rd 5: Some guy with 4c Breya Tezzerator

Deck's sweet, with Helm+Leyline, Thoper + Sword, Breya, a fisting of planeswalkers (like 12 or some such -- Dack, RB Daretti, Tezz AoB and Seeker, Jace TMS). Also has the full compliment of Ensnaring Bridges and other such tutor targets.

Game one he faces the full fury of Pernicious Deed, which something like 8 for 1s him while leaving me with a Tracker in play to clean up his Tezz the Seeker. Tracker ends the game with something like 8 +1/+1 counters on him.

Game two he plays Leyline on turn 4, Forces my Reclamation Sage, and then plays+activates Helm. K.

Game three I Slaughter Games his Helm, he Slaughter Games my Deeds (and then sees Sneak for the first time). We sit there and durdle for a while, I build enough of a board to where he dies on my next swing, but he finds Bridge. Tracker once again goes bananas and draws me to Phyrexian Tower, which lets me do Two Towers things with Rec Sage (which was already in play) to clinch the win.

Top 8: RUG Lands

Game one he double crop rotates (with a mox and riftstone portal) to make Merit Lage on turn 2 and kill me.

Game two we grind for a long ass time; I surgical his Stages when he Loams past one -- Academy Ruins gives the deck infinitely more longevity vs us than typical RG variants. I eventually maneuver the game into a spot where I resolve a Sneak and have the Emrakul in hand. He topdecks his singleton Pithing Needle (which I knew was a singleton because of Surgical), and I die pretty quickly thereafter from Barbarian Ring + Crucible pings.

Unfortunate end to a pretty ridiculous day.

Changes felt good. I didn't use Deluge beyond the first round (although I boarded it in vs Paolo and never drew it), but being able to use it vs BUG decks (where Pyroclasm can't go) felt good. That was a change recommended the night before by Sam Higgins, and it definitely was correct. I think there are times and metas where Pryoclasm is better than Deluge, but there's just too many bug decks and too many TNNs floating around at the moment to be without an answer to them.

Losing the 2nd maindeck Nissa hurt, because it's a card you always want to draw. At the same time, I think that the 2nd Deathrite was, begrudgingly, correct. The deck doesn't need more lategame power. It needs more ramp and early game disruption, which means that no matter how much I enjoy Nissa, the Deathrite should get the slot.

It feels like Sneak is to the point where it's something like 68/76 solved, with the remaining slots being largely meta dependent. Choice of backup sweeper in the board, choice of backup spot removal in the main are the two big ones that come to mind. Some people go slightly hammier on the combo (2nd Empath / 2nd Bellower), others prefer more backup plans and resilience (Primeval and Inferno, especially). I don't view this as a bad thing. I only say it to caution that there is still that last bit of personal choice flex, and you should consider your metagame before making selections for those slots -- just because I still favor Punishing Fire does not make it 100% correct for all pilots in all metas.

Changes going forward basically begin and end at the Meren slot in the sideboard. It needs to be something else, I think -- not sure what, but I think I've finally come to terms with Meren not being quite what Sneak needs. Not sure what I'm going to put in that slot just yet, but I'm pretty sure she's not staying.

[Echelon]

So, to conclude, I need some tips on how to play against mirror. That thing is so hard for me to play against. Any tips/suggestions? TnQ in advance! :)

The main thing is to be as clever as you can. Your opponent has a DRS, or maybe even a Meren? Power out Scavenging Ooze. Actively mess with whatever your opponent is doing. Oh, and board out 3 Veteran Explorers - let your opponent do the work for you and replace them with cards like Lost Legacy, if you have them in your SB. I mean, if you can strip your opponent of PtE/Green Sun's Zenith you're much better equiped to win the late game.


Diabolic Intent?

Diabolic Intent! Sac outlet and combo piece (or SB silver bullet) tutor extraordinaire! Beware, only use when you do your sudokus in pen.


Hello, I'm posting this for the Nic Fit player I've played against this friday. Help appreciated!

...List...

I'm considering replacing council's judgement with garruk,apex pradator.
Would appreciate comments/suggestions,thanks.''

The list looks like something I would've come up with some time ago, lol. I do miss Karador, Ghost Chieftain though.

7 mana is just too much to reliably be able to cast. Most of the time you can steal the win with just Sigarda (which you can GSZ for), so why bother?


Losing the 2nd maindeck Nissa hurt, because it's a card you always want to draw. At the same time, I think that the 2nd Deathrite was, begrudgingly, correct. The deck doesn't need more lategame power. It needs more ramp and early game disruption, which means that no matter how much I enjoy Nissa, the Deathrite should get the slot.

...

Changes going forward basically begin and end at the Meren slot in the sideboard. It needs to be something else, I think -- not sure what, but I think I've finally come to terms with Meren not being quite what Sneak needs. Not sure what I'm going to put in that slot just yet, but I'm pretty sure she's not staying.

Mana first, victory later. As for Meren - replace her with a Lost Legacy? It's a nice Swiss armyknife vs. pretty much any deck. Strips your opponent of whatever bugs you most and gives you perfect information on their hand, which is never bad.

[Ulysse95]

Glad to hear people are doing well with Sneak. The Brutalities are a very interesting idea for sure. What were you usually discarding to them for extra text (ie, if you wanted Duress + Disfigure, as vs the delver player)? My biggest concern with them is that they might be too dead vs Miracles. Like yeah, you can use them as a Duress -- but that's not exactly the best feeling, I'm sure. Miracles is generally a good enough matchup that it might be fine to have a couple more dead-ish cards in the deck, but it's something to keep an eye on for sure I think.

Depends the moment of the game and what is in my hand. Often it's a land or STE when I already have a vet or gsz. Sometimes it's a permanent that I get back with EE...
Some times Emrakul when no sneak plan at early reach too

[Megadeus]

Honey, I really like your Traverse fit deck. I may consider it as a start to my BUG shell. I feel it could use some streamlining, but I also haven't played it yet. I'll be picking up a second trop and a sea later this month to give it a whirl. Guess I also need a couple Unglued Islands. List looks fun though. I think Nissa is also really good and should be considered for a second slot

[square_two]

Guess I also need a couple Unglued Islands.

Feels good to be united with other Nic Fitters in a love for Unglued basics.

Here's my refined bug list (http://imgur.com/a/vVRYc). Basically it is Stryfo's dragon fit but using Stronghold + Grave Titan instead of Haven + dragon(s).

Realized I had some oddball value cards to sell online, which means I suddenly have the tix to burn through several more leagues. Is grabbing a Leovold worth an equivalent 3 runs though? :/

[Kobra_D]

For the Delirium Fit, I've been playing around with the idea a little as it seems like fun and the best part of nic fit is the opportunity to brew.

I think aetherling is awesome as it especially hoses miracles, howerver, bitterblossom has always been good against miracle and it puts a card type tribal into the yard. Sure it dies to abrupt decays and our own deeds but it being in the grave isn't so much a bad thing if it makes Emrakul 1/2 cheaper.

Just a thought.

[Stryfo]

I've been having a lot of success with this list:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/607121#online

If you are looking for a bug list that casts emrakul, this is another list to take a look at.

[Megadeus]

Interesting how the BUG lists cut green sun and don't even run 4 explorer. I really liked having a Planeswalker that I could Green Sun for in Nissa, Vastwood Seer. How has it been for everyone else? I like that I can play a land to transform her and then in response to a removal spell fetch to trigger her again. Seems like it could be a massive blowout.

I put together this list for my weekly. It was pretty sweet.

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Giant Solifuge
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 SwagTUSK
1 Woodland Bellower

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Nissa, Vital Force (holy shit why is this card only like $4)
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Painful Truths
3 Swords to Plowshares (I don't care that they gain life over PTE. I never want to PTE a deathrite on turn 1)

like 10 Fetches,
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
(Will cut a couple fetches for towers whenever I get them)

SB kind of random stuff
2 To the Slaughter
2 Lost Legacy
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Pithing Needle
2 Stony Silence
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Painful truths
2 Plow Under (I just want to cast this fucking card so bad, might buy 2 more and 3 more EWitness and Play Plow Under Nic Fit)

Went 2-2 beating Miracles and some awful BUG Power artifact deck and lost to Food Chain and Miracles but man I had a blast. I really like Giant Solifuge as a hasty threat that can generally kill off a jace off of a green sun and they really can only terminus it ensuring that the next time you draw a Green Sun it can come right back. Card is super sick. For real.

[Purple Blood]

What do you guys think about that new Croc? Four mana for a 5/4 haste that can kill our Explorer when it comes into play. It could theoretically serve as a Rhino in a straight G/B list. Probably not good enough despite the synergy I suppose.

[Stryfo]

I enjoy playing a copy of Nissa in my gsz-less list, she is powerful in part for the reason you describe, though I only have the one tutor: traverse.


I think this deck is likely made most powerful by trying to simultaneously minimize the dependence on veteran explorers while maximizing the power of them, this means playing a somewhat smaller than traditional nic fit deck. This in turn lead me to cut a veteran explorer, as I often don't need to trigger it to win, but trigggering it usually does lead to a win.

[Megadeus]

What do you guys think about that new Croc? Four mana for a 5/4 haste that can kill our Explorer when it comes into play. It could theoretically serve as a Rhino in a straight G/B list. Probably not good enough despite the synergy I suppose.

I think he's really sweet. Getting a haste guy that can be found with green sun is awesome. I also like the synergy like described with Explorer of him. That was also my first thought when I saw it in the spoiler. Is there any other way to abuse putting -1 -1 stuff on our dudes outside of rebuying Undying guys?

[Echelon]

What do you guys think about that new Croc? Four mana for a 5/4 haste that can kill our Explorer when it comes into play. It could theoretically serve as a Rhino in a straight G/B list. Probably not good enough despite the synergy I suppose.

Well, @4 mana (or 5, if you GSZ for it) you probably won't be killing off an Explorer with it. It's more likely that you either turn the Croc itself into a 4/3 or dump the counter on a creature you don't want to attack with anyways. DRS comes to mind. Or Qasali Pridemage/Tireless Tracker/Scavenging Ooze.

When unopposed it's a faster clock than Rhino (it does 20 damage in the time Rhino does 15), but when facing blockers Rhino quickly becomes better.

I could see it as maybe a 1-off in a Rhino slot. Vs. Miracles it can be a pretty good Jace killer as long as they don't have removal for a turn, so there's that too.

Edit: If you have to turn your Croc into a 4/3, it's still a slightly better clock than Rhino (16 damage in the time Rhino does 15), but in that case I'd try to GSZ for Rhino.

[rubblekill]

I'm happy that people started to adopt the solifuge tech, although I still think it is a sideboard card. With gsz we effectively have 5 copies and with 2T we can recur it indefinitely if it gets blocked by a surprise snapcaster. The spider comes in even against random decks like storm show and tell and burn, when I basically cut all the big guns from the deck.

Regarding the croc, the card is hilarious. For shits and giggles I will brew a 8 rhino 8 crocs deck that aims to power out giant monster asap. No walkers no utility creatures, only 8 rhinocrocs and painful truths to reload.
The croc passes the deed test which is a bonus.

[sdematt]

Josh,

How was Rallier? How about having no Tops?

[Echelon]

Regarding the croc, the card is hilarious. For shits and giggles I will brew a 8 rhino 8 crocs deck that aims to power out giant monster asap. No walkers no utility creatures, only 8 rhinocrocs and painful truths to reload.
The croc passes the deed test which is a bonus.

That's pretty epic.


Josh,

How was Rallier? How about having no Tops?

He lives!

[Megadeus]

Josh,

How was Rallier? How about having no Tops?

Rallier was pretty mediocre. This deck isn't quite as hellbent it seems on murdering opposing deathrites so he shuts off rallier easily. He's like a big Wood Elves most matches probably because he's just getting a fetch most of the time. Probably a cut, I just have a love affair with the card. No tops was generally fine? I went for more raw card advantage with truths and such rather than durdle with tops. I rarely was empty handed. It was limited testing though so maybe top is worth it. Not gonna lie, some of the stuff in my list is there because I thought it would be fun though more than good.

Here's a terrible Croc fit list I came up with last night for fun

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Crocodile of the Crossing
2 Dreg Mangler
1 Giant Solifuge
3 Geralf's Messenger

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Nissa, Vital Force
3 Fatal Push
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Unearth

[Bobmans]

I think I'd rather squeeze in Saskia then play the Croc. Still I'm Pondering on a 4c list in those Colors but i am not yet sure what exact direction to take it.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

[maharis]

There's also these guys:

Channeler Initiate
1G
Creature - Human Druid, Rare
When Channeler Initiate enters the battlefield, put three -1/-1 counters on target creature you control.
T, Remove a -1/-1 counter from Channeler Initiate: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
3/4

Exemplar of Strength
1G
Creature - Human Warrior, Uncommon
When Exemplar of Strength enters the battlefield, put three -1/-1 counters on target creature you control.
Whenever Exemplar of Strength attacks, remove a -1/-1 counter from it. If you do, you gain 1 life.
4/4

If you explorer into those you basically have a goyf and a bunch of mana when you untap. They seem like shit topdecks though.

What about this thing?

Rhona's Monument
3
Legendary Artifact, Uncommon
Green creature spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
Whenever you cast a creature spell, target creature you control gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn.

Reduces costs on a bunch of our guys and makes our late explorers into mini-Giant Growths (plus trample to push damage through)

[Luthiereisfun]

There's also these guys:

Channeler Initiate
1G
Creature - Human Druid, Rare
When Channeler Initiate enters the battlefield, put three -1/-1 counters on target creature you control.
T, Remove a -1/-1 counter from Channeler Initiate: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
3/4

Exemplar of Strength
1G
Creature - Human Warrior, Uncommon
When Exemplar of Strength enters the battlefield, put three -1/-1 counters on target creature you control.
Whenever Exemplar of Strength attacks, remove a -1/-1 counter from it. If you do, you gain 1 life.
4/4

If you explorer into those you basically have a goyf and a bunch of mana when you untap. They seem like shit topdecks though.

What about this thing?

Rhona's Monument
3
Legendary Artifact, Uncommon
Green creature spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
Whenever you cast a creature spell, target creature you control gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn.

Reduces costs on a bunch of our guys and makes our late explorers into mini-Giant Growths (plus trample to push damage through)

I could see Rhonas monument maybe in the aggressive rhino builds. It pushes the deck into a more aggressive role which I know some people think is not where Nic Fit wants to be.

I think it could warrant testing.

I am not sure how relevant the +2/+2 would be. It could help close out games faster which I feel like is something Rhino builds struggle with sometimes. If you durdle too much it can sometimes prepare other decks to deal with your threats once you start to land them.

[Arianrhod]

Channeler Initiate is probably worth keeping an eye on with an eye towards that archaic Sakura-Tribe Elder slot. Steve is likely still better, but Channeler is a weird enough card that it's going to be hard to effectively evaluate it without trying to use it.

[Purple Blood]

Channeler Initiate is probably worth keeping an eye on with an eye towards that archaic Sakura-Tribe Elder slot. Steve is likely still better, but Channeler is a weird enough card that it's going to be hard to effectively evaluate it without trying to use it.

And here I was thinking "man I wish that Croc was slightly smaller with lower cost." :laugh:

I really like the design of this guy in general. A mana dork that becomes a useful body later in the game. Not that relevant for Legacy but its pretty sweet in limited.

Would have been nice if you could spread the counters over multiple creatures. That way you'd have the flexibility of deciding if you want some more ramp/color fixing or just a bigger body in addition to to killing off an Explorer. Even then 3 mana GSZ that nets you two lands and a 3/4 ain't too shabby.

With all these -1/-1 counter effect I'm sure there are going to be a number of cards that might play well with this deck. Looking forward to more spoilers.

[Warden]

...
Rhona's Monument
3
Legendary Artifact, Uncommon
Green creature spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
Whenever you cast a creature spell, target creature you control gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn.

Reduces costs on a bunch of our guys and makes our late explorers into mini-Giant Growths (plus trample to push damage through)

I'm not sold on any of them. The Monument benefits green creatures (yes), but also provides a perk for casting them (meh). If you GSZ, this thing does not trigger. And the card itself does nothing on the table, yet costs 3 mana. The other problem with Monument is that it's legendary -- so you couldn't even stack a few of them on the table. The only upside of this card is the potential for a topdeck creature to generate "value" but I'd actually rather have something else in the deck entirely. I can't help but think even Garruk 1.0 or Garruk flipmaster is better for 1 additional mana.

[Brael]

Channeler Initiate
1G
Creature - Human Druid, Rare
When Channeler Initiate enters the battlefield, put three -1/-1 counters on target creature you control.
T, Remove a -1/-1 counter from Channeler Initiate: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
3/4

Exemplar of Strength
1G
Creature - Human Warrior, Uncommon
When Exemplar of Strength enters the battlefield, put three -1/-1 counters on target creature you control.
Whenever Exemplar of Strength attacks, remove a -1/-1 counter from it. If you do, you gain 1 life.
4/4

If you explorer into those you basically have a goyf and a bunch of mana when you untap. They seem like shit topdecks though.

What about this thing?

Rhona's Monument
3
Legendary Artifact, Uncommon
Green creature spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
Whenever you cast a creature spell, target creature you control gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn.

Reduces costs on a bunch of our guys and makes our late explorers into mini-Giant Growths (plus trample to push damage through)

Initiate is too slow/weak. A two mana manadork needs to make mana on the turn you cast it. This is why Lotus Cobra doesn't work, if you use a land drop on T2, it provides no benefit until T3. Steve sort of gets around this because it provides a land. If you want this to provide board presence you're looking at a turn to play it, 3 turns to tap it, then a turn to attack. 5 turns is much, much too long to get any real benefit.

Exemplar is a 2 mana 1/1 that doesn't do anything extra.

The monument is interesting, but I would still say no. If we were interested in that type of effect we could have it less narrow, and for a lower mana cost, by using Emerald Medallion.

[Megadeus]

I think Croc is most playable, and even then it's not good. I think the mana dork guy is not that great. If you could use it to kill off explorer plus put some counters on him to keep him as a mana dork for a turn or two maybe.

Also new cycling ORing seems sweet in Nyx Fit. Cycle it and then get it back later with starfield. Love it.

[Bart]

Hello Ulysse95, I was the guy that also played Sneak Fit this Eternal Weekend at BOM. I played it three days straight and my results were dissapointing. This is why you really made my day yesterday when my mate Chatto pointed out your post to me here and I read you went 5-0 on the Trial! Congratulations! It’s great to hear Sneak Fit is capable of beating the best of the Legacy decks and your write up was a good read.

Like said, my results were mediocre. This has to do with a lot of things, but mostly because I am unexperienced with the deck, I've only played Stompy decks before: Big Red, Soldier Stompy and Dragon Stompy. This resulted in 3 (!) draws on day 1 at the Trial with no breaks between the rounds, which was very exhausting. This is why I also didn’t make notes of my games (something I try to do most of the time).

The list I ran day 1:

4 Veteran Explorers
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Inferno Titan
1 Primeval Titan
1 Thragtusk
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Fierce Empath
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Eternal Witness

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Sneak Attack
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sensei’s Divining Top

1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Garruk, Relentless

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Badlands
1 Taiga
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath’s Stronghold

SB
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 To the Slaughter
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Golgari Charm
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Obstinate Baloth

This is what I faced (for what I can remember, I wrote it down here):

Day 1 Friday Trial

Round 1 – Grixis Delver 1-1
Game 1 was a beatdown of 2 Gurmag Anglers. I could cast Thragtusk while I am on 1 life trading of with 1 Angler. A deathtouch Wolf token of Garruk could kill off the other but couldn’t block a Delver that finished me.
Game 2 was very fast because I managed to activate a hasty Verdant’s Stronghold – Prime Time lockdown while having a Sneak Attack in play. Good times!
Game 3 was difficult: Sneak Attack got countered, Pernicious Deed activated once but he managed to exile all copies from my deck (and hand!) with 2 Surgicals on Sneak and Deed. We couldn’t kill eachother fast enough and ended in a draw.

Round 2 – U/B Death Shadow 1-1
Don’t remember much of our plays and like said, I didn’t have time to make notes.
Game 1 I was very surprised to see a modern deck in Legacy, and Death’s Shadow proved very good, I had no answers.
Game 2 was very close but Scavenging Ooze and Obstinate Baloth helped me to stay in life and go to G3, but again, no time left to finish. Again a draw.

Round 3 – Miracles 1-1
Miracles is what I hoped to see and I did. Forgot much of the action because the games were loooong.
Game 1 I hit twice with Cabal Therapy and his hand wasn’t good anymore. I closed out with Sneaking in Emmy.
Game 2 he won but I can’t recall anything. I think it were 3 Angel tokens. The only thing I remember is one of my To the Slaughters takes out a Vendilion Clique and a Jace. I began to be getting real hungry and needed a break, but didn’t get one as we ran into time G3.

Round 4 – Eldrazi Stompy 1-2
Game 1 I believe I had a Sneak Attack real fast, Zenithing for 4 into Fierce Empath for the win as he damaged himself with Ancient Tombs.
Game 2 I believe he had the Pithing Needle real fast set on Sneak and he just was faster.
Game 3 was close but he managed to win fast with trampling Reality Smasher. Ouch.
I feel Sneak Fit has a game against Eldrazi, but I just didn't have it.

Round 5 – Turbo Depths 2-0
This wasn’t really a win because my opponent conceded after turn 3 to join the 15:00 Trial in time,
Finishing 1-1-3 in the end.

Day 2 Main Event

Deck-changes:

-1 Eternal Witness
+1 Nissa Vital Force to the main from SB
Because I felt I was going to face Miracles Day 2 even more and Eternal Witness proved to be not that useful and very slow day 1.

+1 Maelstrom Pulse to the sideboard
Because it did NOT feel good loosing to Eldrazi and having no answers. Needing more answers to Pithing Needle as well.

Again, I did not make notes of my games. I was a bit nervous and needed all the time between rounds to eat, drink and stay relaxed/focussed. This is what I remember:

Round 1 – Shardless BUG 1-1
Game 1 started of good. He plays Ancestral Visions and cascades, but he didn’t counter my Sneak Attack and my Emmy attacks. He makes a play mistake by not blocking with his Baleful Strix and concedes instead of saccing 6 other permanents and just block to stay in the game.
Game 2 was grindy but he managed to cast Liliana, discard, take out a creature and cast the other Liliana. In the end Jace keeps me under control. I didn’t give up but I should’ve surrendered to go to G3 faster and try to win, because now G3 was only 5 rounds and again, resulting in a draw. This begins to be annoying, all those draws!

Round 2 – Aluren 1-1 ?
Game 1 started of just like Round 1, putting him on Shardless. With only 3 cards left in hand including a Cabal Therapy, I play it naming Hymn to Tourach, fearing I would lose my wincon (don’t remember my actual hand/boardstate, but I was well on my way winning, so I thought). But then he reveals the Aluren combo and next turn he goes of while at 7 life!
G2 was better, I had the Sneak out, he didn’t expect that to happen. I think I remember I had the Verdant Stronghold – Primeval Titan loop again, taking him down with 10+ lands in play.
G3 I really could not remember, I even forgot how it ended but I believe he beat me down to 3 life and yet again, I believe I go into a draw.

Round 3 – Cloudpost MUD 2-0
Game 1 he mulls to 5, playing Cloudpost, go. I Cabal Therapy naming Metalworker and I miss. He plays some Posts, gets some life, but no real action. I resolve a turn 4 Inferno Titan and he scoops.
G2 he mulls again but resolves a quick Steel Hellkite, taking me down to 7 life. I SDT into To the Slaughter saving my ass. After that I believe I cast Sneak Attack and find an Emmy of Top.

Round 4 – Infect 0-2
My discard didn’t matter, he poisoned me real quick both games. Finally a could have a break.

Round 5 – Miracles 0-1
This was an experienced Miracles player. My focus however went downhill during this match, resulting in some stupid mistakes from my side. Lack of sleep and lack of experience in this matchup took me down in the end.

Round 6 – Eldrazi Stompy 0-2
Like the above, only worse, now making rookie-mistakes I don’t even want to talk about here. Interesting fact: I mulled down to 4 and almost won game 1! Almost, that is..

After this match, me and my friends decided to drop as we are all tired and don’t do that well that day. Lessons learned, moving on.

Day 3 Sunday Trial

Deck-changes:

-1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
+1 Diabolic Intend
Never cast Sidisi and wanted to try a faster way to kill Vet and search.

-1 Scavenging Ooze to the board
+1 Reclamation Sage from the board
All my games I switched in Rec Sage for the Ooze in fear of Needle. Also better G1 against Miracles.

-1 Nissa Vital Force to the board
+1 additional Fierce Empath
Wanted to have another combo piece cheap enough to Zenith for.

-1 Golgari Charm
Never used this so I left only a 1-of in the board.

Round 1 – Death and Taxes 0-2
Round 2 – Cloudpost Prison 0-2
Round 3 – Dream Halls 0-2
Round 4 – Bye
Round 5 – Aluren 1-2

I was out of luck on Sunday I guess, this time not making big mistakes at all but got blown out instead. But I never lost faith in the deck and love to give it another spin. The deck deserves it and I really feel it makes me become a better player. Besides, I haven’t faced half of the decks that are out there yet.

I will definitely try 2 mainboard Collective Brutality. All 3 days I felt I didn’t have enough MD discard especially against infect.

Ulysse, against what decks do you side in Slaughter Games? Are these not too slow against combo? Do you use them against Miracles as well? I left my copies at home last weekend but now I am undecided. Would love to hear your opinion about that.
Also, don’t we need some untargeted creature removal in Sneak Fit, a la To the Slaughter or Diabolic Edict in the side, just in case Dark Depths happens, or against reanimator?

Another question: How do you feel about Woodland Bellower? Isn't Sidisi or even Diabolic Intend just better overall? Didn't test him yet though.

Many thanks in advance!

[Brael]

I think Croc is most playable, and even then it's not good. I think the mana dork guy is not that great. If you could use it to kill off explorer plus put some counters on him to keep him as a mana dork for a turn or two maybe.

Also new cycling ORing seems sweet in Nyx Fit. Cycle it and then get it back later with starfield. Love it.

Croc is interesting but slightly too weak I think. It's worth a second and even a third look because just about every green creature with haste is intended to be pushed to constructed playable levels, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's pushed to Legacy playable levels. I don't think it's quite where we want to be though. Surrak, the Hunt Caller has the same 5/4 haste stats but wasn't good enough because it's too hard to maintain board presence. I think the croc is going to run into the same issue, and that the -1/-1 counter is going to be a bigger deal than you think. Reducing it to just a 4/3 changes things significantly, as does reducing the stats of a smaller creature and rendering it unable to attack. Rhino is just much better here, that 3 point ETB is damn close to haste as it is, and a 4/5 trample is just a much better body on the field.

[Purple Blood]

Croc is interesting but slightly too weak I think. It's worth a second and even a third look because just about every green creature with haste is intended to be pushed to constructed playable levels, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's pushed to Legacy playable levels. I don't think it's quite where we want to be though. Surrak, the Hunt Caller has the same 5/4 haste stats but wasn't good enough because it's too hard to maintain board presence. I think the croc is going to run into the same issue, and that the -1/-1 counter is going to be a bigger deal than you think. Reducing it to just a 4/3 changes things significantly, as does reducing the stats of a smaller creature and rendering it unable to attack. Rhino is just much better here, that 3 point ETB is damn close to haste as it is, and a 4/5 trample is just a much better body on the field.

Rhino doesn't hit planeswalkers though. Not saying that makes this better than Rhino just pointing out some added use for the Croc.

Of course I have to be brewing an 8 RhinoCroc.dec. That's way too sweet.

[Ulysse95]

Hello Ulysse95, I was the guy that also played Sneak Fit this Eternal Weekend at BOM. I played it three days straight and my results were dissapointing. This is why you really made my day yesterday when my mate Chatto pointed out your post to me here and I read you went 5-0 on the Trial! Congratulations! It’s great to hear Sneak Fit is capable of beating the best of the Legacy decks and your write up was a good read.

Like said, my results were mediocre. This has to do with a lot of things, but mostly because I am unexperienced with the deck, I've only played Stompy decks before: Big Red, Soldier Stompy and Dragon Stompy. This resulted in 3 (!) draws on day 1 at the Trial with no breaks between the rounds, which was very exhausting. This is why I also didn’t make notes of my games (something I try to do most of the time).

[...]

I was out of luck on Sunday I guess, this time not making big mistakes at all but got blown out instead. But I never lost faith in the deck and love to give it another spin. The deck deserves it and I really feel it makes me become a better player. Besides, I haven’t faced half of the decks that are out there yet.

I will definitely try 2 mainboard Collective Brutality. All 3 days I felt I didn’t have enough MD discard especially against infect.

Ulysse, against what decks do you side in Slaughter Games? Are these not too slow against combo? Do you use them against Miracles as well? I left my copies at home last weekend but now I am undecided. Would love to hear your opinion about that.
Also, don’t we need some untargeted creature removal in Sneak Fit, a la To the Slaughter or Diabolic Edict in the side, just in case Dark Depths happens, or against reanimator?

Another question: How do you feel about Woodland Bellower? Isn't Sidisi or even Diabolic Intend just better overall? Didn't test him yet though.

Many thanks in advance!

Hi Bart!

Thanks for reading my report! Should have stay on Paris to play more :'(

From what I saw from your ending game against my friend playing miracle on friday, you lost a lot of time making each call. Now you said you're new to the deck it makes more sense. I think by becoming more instinctive you will do less draws. For me, sneak fit is mostly a quick version (a lot more than nyx fit which is more a prison deck). I finished all the rounds before time's up. Yes, against miracle it's quite normal, but most of the other match up would end sooner on a normal day. Which is good to go throught a big day as you pointed out. Hang on!! ;)

Yes, I think too that it's good to have more MD discard in it and was happy with those collective brutality until now.

Slaughter game come in against each and every combo deck (storm, show & tell, elf ball, reanimator, alluren, food chain..) because on a good day you can cast it turn 2/3. Even later is good if you managed to delay him with some discard. Less silver bullet to make some room. If you managed to diffuse their bombs, you quite win. Against miracle too since it's often grindy games and steal them some of their tools is good (often the kills).


Yes, I need to find back my to the slaughter. Luckily, I didn't went against Depth ^^ Often my chance to break them is to Emrakul before dying or gain a lethal turn with collective/DRS/thragtusk ^^'

Woodland bellower is quite an all star. Better than Sidissi because greeny and stay on an empty board. And very helpfull with our little toolbox (witness, tracker, reclamation sage or empath depending the situation). MD 1 bellower and 2 empath seemed to be the better balance to me. And I followed master Arianrhod on this ;)
I didn't played tracker for some time but felt good back here.


I'm not a fan of Garruck, but that's me.

[Echelon]

Channeler Initiate is probably worth keeping an eye on with an eye towards that archaic Sakura-Tribe Elder slot. Steve is likely still better, but Channeler is a weird enough card that it's going to be hard to effectively evaluate it without trying to use it.

DRS is a far better Channeler Initiate.


Rhino doesn't hit planeswalkers though. Not saying that makes this better than Rhino just pointing out some added use for the Croc.

This. That's something we'd actually need.

[gth842s]

Stryfo: Just wondering if you're still playing Dragon Fit, or if you've moved more towards a BUG Planeswalkers list with an intuition / loam package.

[rubblekill]

The deck list that features aetherling is amazing, I love that guy and I feel we are the only deck in the format that has the ramp needed to "make the card work". The deck looks really fun to play.
The only problem with traverse is that we lose early game consistency which is essential for the deck: 99% of the time the path to victory involves an early veteran trigger (possibly with CT) and traverse is so much worse than gsz in that regard.
Don't you ever feel in permanent top deck mode without a reliable way to tutor for creatures (even utility ones)? Without that we are a worse blue deck because we don't have access to cantrips. The abundance of DRS in the format somewhat makes delirium even less reliable.
If I ever wanted to play aetherling I'd rather empath for it to be honest: either way, after you tutor for him with traverse or empath, it simply doesn't matter. The miracles player is gonna laugh at your face and counter it.

[Stryfo]

@gth: I haven't played dragonfit in a while simply because I don't actually have all of the cards in paper, I'm missing the savannah. As such I wanted to work on a deck for which I do have all of the cards in paper, hence the bugfit list. Once I get a savannah or suitable replacement, I'll probably start playing dragonfit again, though after playing my BUG list, I am already thinking of some changes to dragonfit.

@rubblekill I can't speak to the list with aetherling, but my list in particular doesn't have a problem with consistency, and doesn't rely on winning on the back of veteran explorer, though it is a large boost. So many of the cards in the BUG fit lists do a great job of replacing themselves and drawing additional cards or just generally being good on their own, that I don't run into a consistency issue. Plus, with 3 tops and 10 fetches, there is a lot of room for finding the cards you need. Another thing that may be somewhat undervalued regarding traverse: when you have delirium you can also tutor lands, and finding Volrath's Stronghold has been pretty real. Even off delirium, there are plenty of matches where tutoring for a basic is actually good enough. Frequently I find that if I'm making land drops, I'm winning games, and traverse helps with that.

[Megadeus]

This. That's something we'd actually need.

If a big dumb haste man that can be Green Sunned is what you're looking for, look no further than Giant Solifuge. He also tramples and he can't be Swords. Against miracles it's chump or terminus, and you can get blockers out of his way with your removal and terminus just means he's coming right back with your next green Sun

[Echelon]

Terminus -> GSZ works for the Croc too. I don't like the Solifuge's 1 toughness. But I'm a rather stubborn bastard.

[Megadeus]

Terminus -> GSZ works for the Croc too. I don't like the Solifuge's 1 toughness. But I'm a rather stubborn bastard.

Croc also eats a STP as well though. Miracles literally needs miracle terminus or chump to get rid of spider, and if you have 2 towers they can never get rid of it for good (though I guess technically same with Croc). 1 toughness sucks, but even with a snapcaster out solifuge still can kill a jace that has been brainstorming because trample. Turning Green sun into a vindicate for jace isn't great but it's something.

[Ulysse95]

Cast out seems to be incredible in Nyx fit indeed!!!
Need to find 4 spot to it! Can trip which comes back. Manage Marit Lage, Emrakul (and minus) at instant speed, plus walkers, Alluren or food chain!
And most important: the picture looks nice!

[Memories of the Time]

Also in love with Cast Out, let's hope about more ench with cycling cards =)

Anyway, i'm testing a variation: as said, less creature and almost removal-proof deck. Main point is Evolutionary Leap: of course, it's a cc2 and so don't synergize well with Deed, but it's amazing: it's a costant and not-so-hateable sac outlet that can easily chain 2 rector to close the game (Curse+Humility/Living Plane/Dovescape). I'm totally in love with it, and since now the tests on cocka are going very well (like 30-2, to be clear. Obv, it's just cocka ^^ ).

// 61 Mazzo
// 3 Artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top

// 11 Creature
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
4 Academy Rector
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thragtusk

// 14 Enchantment
3 Sterling Grove
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Humility
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Living Plane
2 Evolutionary Leap
1 Dovescape
1 Faith's Fetters

// 2 Instant
2 Abrupt Decay

// 22 Land
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls

// 1 Planeswalker
1 Nissa, Vital Force

// 8 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Collective Brutality
1 Lingering Souls


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Creature
SB: 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze

// 8 Enchantment
SB: 1 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 City of Solitude
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

// 3 Sorcery
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Thoughtseize

[gth842s]

@gth: I haven't played dragonfit in a while simply because I don't actually have all of the cards in paper, I'm missing the savannah. As such I wanted to work on a deck for which I do have all of the cards in paper, hence the bugfit list. Once I get a savannah or suitable replacement, I'll probably start playing dragonfit again, though after playing my BUG list, I am already thinking of some changes to dragonfit.

@rubblekill I can't speak to the list with aetherling, but my list in particular doesn't have a problem with consistency, and doesn't rely on winning on the back of veteran explorer, though it is a large boost. So many of the cards in the BUG fit lists do a great job of replacing themselves and drawing additional cards or just generally being good on their own, that I don't run into a consistency issue. Plus, with 3 tops and 10 fetches, there is a lot of room for finding the cards you need. Another thing that may be somewhat undervalued regarding traverse: when you have delirium you can also tutor lands, and finding Volrath's Stronghold has been pretty real. Even off delirium, there are plenty of matches where tutoring for a basic is actually good enough. Frequently I find that if I'm making land drops, I'm winning games, and traverse helps with that.

Awesome; what would you change to dragonfit if you had all the cards you needed? I want to give it a go some time soon at a local weekly.

[square_two]

Awesome; what would you change to dragonfit if you had all the cards you needed? I want to give it a go some time soon at a local weekly.

I'm curious if he is referring to switching from Haven land + dragon or two to just Volrath's Stronghold.

Stronghold works well with all other creatures and makes the same sort of Intuition piles that can grind out a win pretty easily (Loam/Stronghold/fatty). On my BUG list I'm running Grave Titan and Titania as my 5 and 6 drop "fatty" creatures to grab in that way.

Titania can be hilarious with Ghost Quarter.

[lavafrogg]

Also in love with Cast Out, let's hope about more ench with cycling cards =)

Anyway, i'm testing a variation: as said, less creature and almost removal-proof deck. Main point is Evolutionary Leap: of course, it's a cc2 and so don't synergize well with Deed, but it's amazing: it's a costant and not-so-hateable sac outlet that can easily chain 2 rector to close the game (Curse+Humility/Living Plane/Dovescape). I'm totally in love with it, and since now the tests on cocka are going very well (like 30-2, to be clear. Obv, it's just cocka ^^ ).

// 61 Mazzo
// 3 Artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top

// 11 Creature
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
4 Academy Rector
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thragtusk

// 14 Enchantment
3 Sterling Grove
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Humility
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Living Plane
2 Evolutionary Leap
1 Dovescape
1 Faith's Fetters

// 2 Instant
2 Abrupt Decay

// 22 Land
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls

// 1 Planeswalker
1 Nissa, Vital Force

// 8 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Collective Brutality
1 Lingering Souls


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Creature
SB: 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze

// 8 Enchantment
SB: 1 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 City of Solitude
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

// 3 Sorcery
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Thoughtseize

Love this.

I think you need the dryad arbor to search for to start the Leap chain in worst case scenarios. 1

[Memories of the Time]

Love this.

I think you need the dryad arbor to search for to start the Leap chain in worst case scenarios. 1

I've thought about it, dryad is also a good option to ramp t1 and it's another good option.
But i don't really know what cut for it

[Stryfo]

@gth & squaretwo:

my updated dragonfit list can be found here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/nic-fit-dragons-1/

In summary, I wasn't excited by the mainboard raven's crime, so I moved it to the board and cut the third intuition, I also cut down to just a dromoka and an ugin in the main as far as dragons go. I added a second liliana and 2 tireless trackers.

The board is not much different, I just moved around some numbers.

I make no claim that dragonfit is better than the bugfit lists that I play, nor that haven of the spirit dragon is better than volrath's stronghold, in fact, in general I like stronghold better. However, I do believe that the ability to get back Ugin with haven of the spirit dragon is the reason to play dragonfit, so if you want to play Ugin because you think it will end basically every game on the spot, I'd go with the haven plan over the stronghold plan.


If you are going to play the stronghold/intuition package and not raven's crime, I recommend trying cutting the intuitions for gifts ungiven (and fiddling with a few numbers in the deck if you do this), because the effect is more powerful if you aren't worrying about the speed. Getting loam, stronghold, EWit+card is like a slow tutor for any card in the deck, and repeatable EWit is one of the more powerful things to do in nic fit because of the average power level of the cards. Regarding Grave Titan: I don't really care for it too much, it seems weak or ineffective in a lot of matchups, there has to be a better 6-drop (or better yet, a better 4 or 5 drop).

Another avenue I've explored before is instead of stronghold, run academy ruins with thopter sword and a value EE, just food for thought.

[Echelon]

Croc also eats a STP as well though. Miracles literally needs miracle terminus or chump to get rid of spider, and if you have 2 towers they can never get rid of it for good (though I guess technically same with Croc). 1 toughness sucks, but even with a snapcaster out solifuge still can kill a jace that has been brainstorming because trample. Turning Green sun into a vindicate for jace isn't great but it's something.

Agreed. Thing is, Croc is something I'd possibly run in the MD where Solifuge is more of a SB card. And in my SB I'd much rather have an extra Lost Legacy - it kills Jace before it hits the field and has uses in other MUs as well.

[sdematt]

Did we even just consider playing a singleton Entreat and saying fuck it?

I'm going to be trying this:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 DRS
3 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Giant Solifuge
1 Eternal Witness
1 Ulvenwald Tracker (shooting Deathrites, Delvers, Death and Taxes flyers, etc.)

3 Path to Exile
4 Decay (that new Gideon, wtf?)
3 Deed
3 Top
2 Sylvan
2 Painful Truths
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

22 Lands

(Obviously cuts are needed, but I'm just fleshing it out now).

Board:

2 To the Slaughter
3 Carpet of Flowerss (fuckin' Frostbringer, and I have Korean Carpets).
1 Sigarda
1 Garruk Relentless (wombo combo with Tracker)
1 Nisssa, Vital Force
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Pithing Needle
3 Thoughtseize

[Megadeus]

That's fair. I've played this deck one time in the past two years so I'll wait really say how I feel on certain things. I just feel like Solifuge is actually worth it though, In theory of course. I'm still catching up on some tech. I also feel like Paincestral Recall is a good card though that is worth playing. How does everyones combo match ups feel? Mine is probably weak, but I I also feel like cabal therapy skill can carry me a long way

[Lueseto]

Everyone is talking about the Croc but what about the two 2-drops? Having a 2 cmc zenith target to get rid of the first explorer could be pretty big and add a lot of consistency to the deck while being decent sized beaters. I'm having trouble deciding which one is better. I guess the 3/4 is better to draw if you have no explorers but the other has 1 more power if the counters go on an explorer which would be kind of the sole point in running them. What do you think? Decent beater that makes our plan more consistent

[Echelon]

Did we even just consider playing a singleton Entreat and saying fuck it?

I'm going to be trying this:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 DRS
3 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Giant Solifuge
1 Eternal Witness
1 Ulvenwald Tracker (shooting Deathrites, Delvers, Death and Taxes flyers, etc.)

3 Path to Exile
4 Decay (that new Gideon, wtf?)
3 Deed
3 Top
2 Sylvan
2 Painful Truths
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

22 Lands

That's pretty ingenious. I'd go less Truths and +1 Top though. As for new Gideon - PtE doesn't give a shit about indestructible. It's nothing we can't deal with.


Everyone is talking about the Croc but what about the two 2-drops? Having a 2 cmc zenith target to get rid of the first explorer could be pretty big and add a lot of consistency to the deck while being decent sized beaters. I'm having trouble deciding which one is better. I guess the 3/4 is better to draw if you have no explorers but the other has 1 more power if the counters go on an explorer which would be kind of the sole point in running them. What do you think? Decent beater that makes our plan more consistent

I have 2 issues with those. 1 - low CMC beaters & Deed are a very bad combination. It's one of the reasons why we don't play Tarmogoyfs. 2 - by the time you're able to GSZ for a way to get rid of your Explorer you'll have 3 or 4 mana (when playing around Daze). Is killing your Explorer something you still really care about at that point..?

[sdematt]

That's pretty ingenious. I'd go less Truths and +1 Top though. As for new Gideon - PtE doesn't give a shit about indestructible. It's nothing we can't deal with.


But not if they don't turn him into a creature. Perhaps the play is get them to negative life, then upkeep Decay him.

I was thinking about Entreat when I was doing surgery today. Seems pretty cool to either EOT kill another random derdly deck, or just make Miracles have it.

-Matt

[Echelon]

But not if they don't turn him into a creature. Perhaps the play is get them to negative life, then upkeep Decay him.

I was thinking about Entreat when I was doing surgery today. Seems pretty cool to either EOT kill another random derdly deck, or just make Miracles have it.

-Matt

As long as it's a Planeswalker, just send 2+ creatures towards its face. Or Sigarda, they still can't target her.

[sdematt]

For sure, just saying.

[Bobmans]

Nvm

[Arianrhod]

I've tried an Entreat in the past Matt, and it might just be my shit luck, but I never found it to work out. I always either drew it too soon, or it chewed up my mana because I had to keep pushing it down with Top, or it was answered / countered and I got time walked. Certainly feel free to experiment, but it didn't seem that great to me.

[Navsi]

I've tried an Entreat in the past Matt, and it might just be my shit luck, but I never found it to work out. I always either drew it too soon, or it chewed up my mana because I had to keep pushing it down with Top, or it was answered / countered and I got time walked. Certainly feel free to experiment, but it didn't seem that great to me.

Double white also seems relatively difficult for us at times. Broodmate Dragon is a relatively mediocre finisher and I think we'd need to be casting it for X=4 or more to reasonably expect to actually end games with it, and it can't be recurred or tutored like similar 6cmc finishers while also being garbage in the opening hand.

[Brael]

Been watching the spoilers, looking for interesting cards. Came up with an interaction earlier that I think might be powerful. With the Crop Rotation strategy, Maze of Ith is a great removal spell, but as it turns out, you also have an end of combat step where you can use Maze of Ith on your own guys. There could be something there with exert. So far Watchful Naga is the best in green, and Combat Celebrant is the best overall, which isn't quite good enough. Worth keeping in mind though.

[square_two]

Been watching the spoilers, looking for interesting cards. Came up with an interaction earlier that I think might be powerful. With the Crop Rotation strategy, Maze of Ith is a great removal spell, but as it turns out, you also have an end of combat step where you can use Maze of Ith on your own guys. There could be something there with exert. So far Watchful Naga is the best in green, and Combat Celebrant is the best overall, which isn't quite good enough. Worth keeping in mind though.

I think if you are free to durdle around attacking the opponent with weak creatures while using up a non-mana producing land, you are already in a good spot :tongue:

New Nissa is interesting. It's a big plus for a possible Reanimator Fit?

3BB, 5 loyalty
+1 Make a 2/2 zombie, mill yourself 2
-3 Put target creature card from your grave into play, it's now a zombie
-7 Destroy all non-zombies

[Tokugawa]

I think if you are free to durdle around attacking the opponent with weak creatures while using up a non-mana producing land, you are already in a good spot :tongue:

New Nissa is interesting. It's a big plus for a possible Reanimator Fit?

3BB, 5 loyalty
+1 Make a 2/2 zombie, mill yourself 2
-3 Put target creature card from your grave into play, it's now a zombie
-7 Destroy all non-zombies
Still don't think she could compete with Nissa at the 5CC slots. But worth a try.

[tilzinger]

I think if you are free to durdle around attacking the opponent with weak creatures while using up a non-mana producing land, you are already in a good spot :tongue:

New Nissa is interesting. It's a big plus for a possible Reanimator Fit?

3BB, 5 loyalty
+1 Make a 2/2 zombie, mill yourself 2
-3 Put target creature card from your grave into play, it's now a zombie
-7 Destroy all non-zombies

You mean Liliana, not Nissa ;)

http://mythicspoiler.com/akh/cards/lilianadeathsmajesty.jpg

[Luthiereisfun]

I still like nissa more because even though it can't reanimate a creature I find the flexibility of being able to choose non creature cards back to hand better. To me it feels more flexible. Nissa is also more aggressive which I like for closing games out fast if you can stabilize with her.

That said I don't think new lili is bad. I suppose if there was a more gy based/reanimator deck that maybe used delirium or something to get more out of the self mill. Not really sure what that deck would look like but my gut says BUG colors.

[Brael]

I think if you are free to durdle around attacking the opponent with weak creatures while using up a non-mana producing land, you are already in a good spot :tongue:

That's why I said there's nothing good enough yet. 3 mana for a 2/2 even if it draws you a card every turn isn't good enough. The extra combat step guy is definitely good enough, but he can't be tutored, and he's red so it would be a totally new build.

If the right creature shows up, it's definitely something I'll consider using.

[Arianrhod]

I still like nissa more because even though it can't reanimate a creature I find the flexibility of being able to choose non creature cards back to hand better. To me it feels more flexible. Nissa is also more aggressive which I like for closing games out fast if you can stabilize with her.

That said I don't think new lili is bad. I suppose if there was a more gy based/reanimator deck that maybe used delirium or something to get more out of the self mill. Not really sure what that deck would look like but my gut says BUG colors.

You run into problems with opposing deathrites then, though.

[Ulysse95]

You run into problems with opposing deathrites then, though.

I think she worth try!
I will put 1 Nissa and 1 Lili instead of 2 Nissa.

+ 1 is over fat with top!

[Brael]

I think she worth try!
I will put 1 Nissa and 1 Lili instead of 2 Nissa.

+ 1 is over fat with top!

Liliana is too slow. 2 turns to deal 2 damage. Nissa deals 10 in that time with a stronger ult.

[TTX]

Also in love with Cast Out, let's hope about more ench with cycling cards =)

Anyway, i'm testing a variation: as said, less creature and almost removal-proof deck. Main point is Evolutionary Leap: of course, it's a cc2 and so don't synergize well with Deed, but it's amazing: it's a costant and not-so-hateable sac outlet that can easily chain 2 rector to close the game (Curse+Humility/Living Plane/Dovescape). I'm totally in love with it, and since now the tests on cocka are going very well (like 30-2, to be clear. Obv, it's just cocka ^^ ).

// 61 Mazzo
// 3 Artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top

// 11 Creature
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
4 Academy Rector
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thragtusk

// 14 Enchantment
3 Sterling Grove
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Humility
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Living Plane
2 Evolutionary Leap
1 Dovescape
1 Faith's Fetters

// 2 Instant
2 Abrupt Decay

// 22 Land
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls

// 1 Planeswalker
1 Nissa, Vital Force

// 8 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Collective Brutality
1 Lingering Souls


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Creature
SB: 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze

// 8 Enchantment
SB: 1 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 City of Solitude
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

// 3 Sorcery
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Thoughtseize


I love this Evolutionary Leap addition. I've been crushing decks on Cockatrice, Burn, TNN Tempo, Miracles, D&T etc.

I made a few modifications. Let me know what you guys think. The deck is super good, and no one can really play around it.
The weaknesses are fast combo and big mana decks like Cloudposts. I think the deck is really well positioned because of the
lack of fast combo and recent uptick of midrange/control/tempo decks featuring SFM, TNN, DRS, and such.


// 60 Maindeck
// 3 Artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top

// 13 Creature
4 Academy Rector
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Deathrite Shaman

// 13 Enchantment
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Living Plane
1 Parallax Wave
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sterling Grove
1 Faith's Fetters
2 Evolutionary Leap
1 Seal of Primordium

// 2 Instant
2 Abrupt Decay

// 22 Land
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Bayou
2 Plains
3 Phyrexian Tower
2 Marsh Flats
1 Cavern of Souls

// 7 Sorcery
2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Painful Truths


// 15 Sideboard
// 1 Creature
SB: 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric

// 11 Enchantment
SB: 1 Curse of Death's Hold
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 3 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Sphere of Law

// 3 Instant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 To the Slaughter

[Megadeus]

I went 3-1 with my Junk fit list tonight. Beating Show and Tell, Mono Red Sneak, and Jund. Losing to Death and Taxes. Got pretty lucky against SnT with his poor mulls and such. Blind Therapy hits are by far the greatest thing in Legacy. I think I was like 4/5 on blind therapy. Best was Turn 2 Green sun for explorer against Jund he goes Bob pass. I go Therapy blind name Bloodbraid, hit. Flashback take a Bob from his hand and decay his on board bob. Nissa continues to impress me, Garruk is also pretty good. I've gotten to use his -1 so many times in this deck it's amazing. Still not sure on Bellower how good he is or not. I might go with a second Tribe Elder somehow and just straight cut Renegade Rallier. Doctor Tickles has also impressed me a lot. I kind of put him in as a joke, but he's secretly pretty good. I don't think I've wanted Thragtusk even one time so far. What other good 5 drop green guys outside of Sigarda exist? Also just thinking. Woodland Bellower is really good to put in off of Show and Tell. I can put him in and get Rec Sage if they put in Omniscience or Sneak Attack, or if they put in Emrakul or Griselbrand he can find me a Knight that can then find me a karakas. I have no idea if that's any good, but it sounds kind of sweet. Maybe instead of Tusk, Bellower number 2?

[haganbmj]

What other good 5 drop green guys outside of Sigarda exist?

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/shm/204.jpg

Entourage of Trest
Gurzigost
Ishkanah, Grafwidow
Lord of Extinction
Nessian Game Warden
Prophet of Kruphix
Sage of Ancient Lore

Yeah unfortunately not much holds a candle to Sigarda - especially all the dumb vanilla-esque beaters.

[Echelon]

There's also Verdurous Gearhulk, a 5 mana, 8/8 trample.

It's not as hard to kill as Sigarda, but improves the clock by a full turn. I've been running it for some time now and, well, it's never been bad (I mean, it's an 8/8 trample, what about that can suck?). Often I'll still GSZ for Sigarda (b/c it's Sigarda), but every now and then the occasion does call for Gearhulk.

[Navsi]

Thragtusk is a fine beater too.

[Memories of the Time]

@TTX and Nyx Fit

The more i play this deck, the more i'm convinced that have made it removal-proof is one of the best thing that i've chosen: I really can't understand why you have to play suboptimal cards like Coursier and Eidolon: You don't want to gsz for them 9 times on 10, and the other time you're already in a good position and they don't help you a lot. Really, i like Coursier and i've played it for many games, but it's simply weak. Eidolon is even worse.

Giant... i've expressed my consideration about it. Maindeck Curse is way better against D&T and Miracle -more important for me-, while Giant can block an Angler/Goyf/Smasher. Plus, Curse is a clear lock with Living Plane/Humility/dovescape, Giant no. It's your choice, but remember that any creature in your deck that you want to have on the battlefield makes Leap worse, because you break the chain and so on.

Why Sphere of Law riskying to die anyway and not CoP:red that's a 100% gg?

[MDHackbert]

I am running this through a league right now. 2-0 in matches, 4-0 in games so far. I'll record replays in the next couple weeks and post them to my barren youtube page. I played against BUG True-Name (no stifles or delvers that i saw) and Omni-Sneak with cunning wish/intuition stuffs. pinkfrosting was the omni player and i always face him and lose when he runs painter. It was nice to get a win, though opp mulls to 3 do that. Drawing Rec Sage in opener both games is also nice.

The list is a fairly straightforward medium-light value Jund list with some severe anti Miracles and anti-combo hate in the board.

Deck: Jund Fit.dec

Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:16
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Giant Solifuge
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

Spells:23
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Punishing Fire
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Nissa, Vital Force

Lands:22
3 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:15
2 Walking Ballista
1 Glissa, the Traitor
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Lost Legacy
1 To the Slaughter
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Slaughter Games

[rubblekill]

What's the state of the art of the NYX fit version? What kinds of configurations are available and against which decks are they good or bad?
I want to try the deck online, where the metagame is miracles delver and bug.

I am so happy that you guys are starting to adopt the solifuge technology, it does its job and creates hilarious reactions from the opponents.

[Navsi]

Speaking of Nyx, Cruel Finality is a one-sided Abyss that also kills Jace and is a finisher. It costs 7, but Rector is a thing and this card is game ending against anything that doesn't go wide / doesn't need a board state. Definitely going to make an impact (also, it'll be cheap, because it's hot garbage everywhere else).

[Ulysse95]

Avec you se en the brand new curse?
Cruel reality (http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/carte?ref=akh084)
A good target for a rector. A bit expensive on its own, but but strong effect gor Nyx Fit!
Need some test. But control + kill combined seems great

[Memories of the Time]

Dunno, the new curse could be nice in terms of clock, something we could miss (online many players just concede, IRL the possibility of draw could be bad if we lose the first game). Anyway Dovescape could also work as a finisher when we have a Curse of Death Hold in play.

@Rubblekill: my list is in the previous page, i'm finding it very good and i'm buying the cards to play it IRL. My only problems are linked with Fast combo (ofc) and Manabase: 3 tower and 1 Cavern + the six pack of basics could be weird sometimes. I'm thinking about cutting one tower, due to the 2 Evolutionary Leap maindeck, to add another fetch

[Navsi]

The nice thing about the new curse is that if fulfils a similar role to Chromanticore and Doomwake while not being a creature - it's an answer to an opponent's board state which also kills them, so you get to stabilize and apply pressure with a single Rector trigger.

Previously, if they had a Jace, or a Goyf or something like that which we couldn't just leave on the battlefield, we needed to search up a Deed, Faith's Fetters or other removal effect which meant we would answer the threat, but any followup they have is still live. Now we can deal with problem permanents while gaining board presence at the same time, which is seriously great to have.

[Memories of the Time]

Previously, if they had a Jace, or a Goyf or something like that which we couldn't just leave on the battlefield, we needed to search up a Deed, Faith's Fetters or other removal effect which meant we would answer the threat, but any followup they have is still live. Now we can deal with problem permanents while gaining board presence at the same time, which is seriously great to have.

Absolutely true. Very often i've had to search for a deed just to destroy a single goyf.

edit: it's also very good in a list like mine, where Evolutionary Leap push you to play just 9-10 creatures that you don't want on the battlefield for too long

[square_two]

What's the state of the art of the NYX fit version? What kinds of configurations are available and against which decks are they good or bad?
I want to try the deck online, where the metagame is miracles delver and bug.

I am so happy that you guys are starting to adopt the solifuge technology, it does its job and creates hilarious reactions from the opponents.

Nyx Fit has always struggled with early interaction. Usually if you can get a Rector trigger and you choose correctly (the lines are really complex with this deck) then you can win. Knowing when to crack Groves is also pretty huge and leads to further complexity.

I like the evo leap idea, I will try it on my next league run. Evo Leap as a sac outlet means that we can shift to 2 Phyrexian Tower, 1-2 Cavern which sounds good.

Cruel Reality is so so good for us - I'm seeing some valid looking lists that actually have room to run 3 Decay, 2 Collective Brutality, 2 Swords which will be great in the early game and could completely solve that issue. Lack of GSZ targets or an excess Leap can pitch to Brutality.

1 each of Nether Void, Living Plane, Curse of Death's Hold, and Cruel Reality helps to trim down on the number of powerful effects needed against many matchups.

[zyren]

I've been brewing a pretty janky but fun BGc build with heartless summoning and eldrazi. When it works its great, but it's not very stable. Mana base is still pretty raw and the build overall is still pretty raw, but its actually quite fun to play. Need to reliably get rid of extra heartless summonings late game. the 3x collective brutality does well, but i'm thinking of adding an extra 1 LOTV for more discard outlets.

The cool thing about heartless summoning is it automatically kills explorers. turn 1 explorer 2 turn heartless summoning is pretty strong. Heartless also makes it super easy to cast emrakul. Delerium is not as easy to get as I want it to be now because a lack of instants / artifacts. Any ideas on helping with that?

Again, it is super janky and I don't expect this to do well in any tournaments but its an interesting new take on nic fit that I am trying to make better for "casual" legacy play. Any feedback would be helpful to try to make this deck more stable / powerful.

4 verdant catacombs
3 misty rainforest
1 eye of ugin
1 eldrazi temple
2 llanowar wastes
3 bayou
1 cavern of souls
2 forest
2 swamp
1 wastes
1 phyrexian tower
1 volrath's stronghold


Creatures

4 veteran explorer
2 tireless tracker
1 meren of clan nel toth
3 thought-knot seer
3 reality smasher
1 thragtusk
1 primeval titan
1 emrakul, the promised end


Planeswalkers

1 nissa, vital force

Artifacts
3 sensei's divining top

Spells
4 cabal therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 traverse the ulvenwald
3 pernicious deed
3 collective brutality
4 heartless summoning

[Navsi]

The cool thing about heartless summoning is it automatically kills explorers. turn 1 explorer 2 turn heartless summoning is pretty strong. Heartless also makes it super easy to cast emrakul. Delerium is not as easy to get as I want it to be now because a lack of instants / artifacts. Any ideas on helping with that?

I would say you want Baleful Strix, but it's not great with Heartless Summoning. Other options:
- Myr Superion (this guy is a beast, but uncastable without a Heartless Summoning.. )
- Engineered Explosives (maybe a Trinket Mage or Trophy Mage package?)
- Liliana, the Last Hope builds delirium pretty well.

[Memories of the Time]

The main problem between a list with leap and another one without it is the fact that with leap you want cards with etb/dies, so no big creature or hatebearer, so less beatdown. New curse is also very good as a finisher

[Luthiereisfun]

Champion of Rhonas 3c1g (4CMC)

P/T: 3/3

You may exert COR as it attacks. When you do you may put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield.

Got me thinking about Sneak Fit. Basically the only thing I could think of this is a worse/vulnerable Sneak attack. BUT you can GSZ for it so I am tempted to try it as a 1 of. My gut tells me it's just too slow and not what Sneak Fit really wants. But being able to tutor for a psudeo sneak attack effect to cheat in Emrakul/other fattie has me interested.

Edit: I realize elvish piper is already a card, that we don't play...so yea. Champion doesn't cut it if we wanted that effect.

[Brael]

Champion of Rhonas 3c1g (4CMC)

P/T: 3/3

You may exert COR as it attacks. When you do you may put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield.

Got me thinking about Sneak Fit. Basically the only thing I could think of this is a worse/vulnerable Sneak attack. BUT you can GSZ for it so I am tempted to try it as a 1 of. My gut tells me it's just too slow and not what Sneak Fit really wants. But being able to tutor for a psudeo sneak attack effect to cheat in Emrakul/other fattie has me interested.

Edit: I realize elvish piper is already a card, that we don't play...so yea. Champion doesn't cut it if we wanted that effect.

It's too slow. At 5 mana you cast Sneak, activate Sneak, and attack that turn.

With this card you GSZ it at 5, wait a turn to attack, attack+exert, put a card down, and then wait yet another turn to attack.

[Lueseto]

I have 2 issues with those. 1 - low CMC beaters & Deed are a very bad combination. It's one of the reasons why we don't play Tarmogoyfs. 2 - by the time you're able to GSZ for a way to get rid of your Explorer you'll have 3 or 4 mana (when playing around Daze). Is killing your Explorer something you still really care about at that point..?

I think that yes: this deck is not designed to operate with 3 mana. If that were the case, we would be playing Deathrite Shaman and Birds of Paradise instead of Veteran Explorer, so I feel that a 2-cmc zenith target that can crack Vet while providing some pressure might be worth a try.

What defines this deck is Vet, and when you play a game in which you can not make him die you are not executing your game plan and you might wind up with expensive cards clogged in your hand and just lose. We have 8 cards that can put a Vet into play but most lists (save for Crop Rotation ones and Nyx Fit which runs more than 1 Phyrexian Tower) have only 5 cards that can get it dead in an advantageous manner (wasting a removal spell to do it is quite subpar).

As for which of the 2 would I choose, I think I would go with Channeler Initiate. While Exemplar of Strength is better if you use him to kill a Vet, the other one goes more with our game plan if you draw it as it can be used as a dork in a Veteran-less scenario...

[grizzlybears]

Hello , I am new to this thread, and I have been playing U splashing (for BS and Jace) variations for a while.

Sorry for newbie question,
which card is 'Croc' refers to ? :laugh:

Thanks.

[MDHackbert]

grizzly, here is what we are talking about when referring to the "croc."

New card from Amonkhet:
http://mythicspoiler.com/akh/cards/crocodileofthecrossing.jpg

[Scott]

I might have mentioned it a long time ago, but if we're talking about GSZ-able creatures that are hasty for planeswalkers, and have synergy with the deck (especially if it's a variant heavy on creature sacrifice), my personal favorite is Strangleroot Geist.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I might have mentioned it a long time ago, but if we're talking about GSZ-able creatures that are hasty for planeswalkers, and have synergy with the deck (especially if it's a variant heavy on creature sacrifice), my personal favorite is Strangleroot Geist.
That's cool, Strangleroot Geist and Croc even have synergy.

Edit: damn auto-correct

[grizzlybears]

grizzly, here is what we are talking about when referring to the "croc."

New card from Amonkhet:
http://mythicspoiler.com/akh/cards/crocodileofthecrossing.jpg

Wow, I see, it is cool :laugh:

[Brael]

That's cool, Strangleroot Geist and Croc even have synergy.

Edit: damn auto-correct

I've used Strangleroot a bit. It's not bad, but it's not really great either.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

And you don't think Croc makes it better? I never said great, I said synergistic.

[tilzinger]

Strangleroot is a great Diabolical Intent target. If you're not running Intent then root might not be the best card slot.

[Scott]

Strangleroot is a great Diabolical Intent target. If you're not running Intent then root might not be the best card slot.

Yup, the kind of build with multiple Strangleroot Geists, and some assortment of Phyrexian Tower, Diabolic Intent, Bone Splinters, Innocent Blood & Garruk Relentless, plus the usual suspects.

[Brael]

Knocked out 3 rounds of my Legacy League tonight (after going 4-0 in Modern with my new brew). Beat Miracles, ANT, and Goblins.

Goblins is pretty standard, not much to say about that.

ANT was my highlight of the night. I got a T2 win against them. I'm on the draw, my T1 was Veteran Explorer, they go off on their T2 and Ad Naseam from 20 life all the way down to 5 where they stop because of Dark Petition. They don't hit what they need, and Gitaxian Probe me for 2 life (bringing them to 3) trying to dig further. They fail, and also didn't look at my hand too closely. I untap, play a land, Strangleroot Geist, and hit for 3.

T2 win.

Miracles was a grind but I pulled it out. Apparently the rules of this league are that we don't have a match timer. So my usual go to of winning game 1 against Miracles and then timing out won't work. I take G1 in a 1 hour 15 minute game. Then I take G2 in a 90 minute game. My deck grinds like no other.

This is using my most recent GB build.

[ShadWills]

Sorry but this will be a long post. I've been building this up for a while. I will make some observations that are "obvious" but I guess I'm hoping for some feedback on everything, even the obvious stuff.

Hello all. I've been lurking the NicFit thread(s) for a couple years. This is my first post on The Source. Special thanks to Arianrhod, Echelon, and sdematt as your respective insights have really resonated with me. I have played casual magic since the mid nineties but never competitive legacy. My playgroup plays very little blue or combo, but I "hate" blue so I have playtested extensively against delver and miracles. I had been brewing with Green Sun's Zenith and Veteran Explorer when I found out about NicFit. Green is my favorite (Magic) color and I usually play (Weird Harvest) Elves. So where Elves is an aggro/combo deck I view NicFit as more of a control deck.

I played junk NicFit for a while, it was ok but kinda- boring? SneakFit looks cool. NicFit storm looks fun but I think I'd rather just play TinFins. Leovold Fit with baleful strix and brainstorm looks good and fun but I'm trying to really hate blue.

So here is a decklist I played for a while. It was fun, unique, and personal. But I wanted to get to straight GB. Sideboard to taste:

Mana
4 Forest
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
3Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Wasteland

1 Mox Diamond
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Carpet of Flowers

Creatures
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Primeval Titan
1 Dungrove Elder
1 Gamekeeper
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness

the rest
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Summoner's Pact
1 Culling the Weak
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Living Wish
3 Innocent Blood
4 Pernicious Deed
1 Life from the Loam
2 Past in Flames
1 Vraska the Unseen

SB: 2 Shriekmaw
SB: 1 Vampire Hexmage
SB: 1 Phyrexian Tower
SB: 1 Gaea's Revenge
SB: 1 Wasteland
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre

I guess I'll make a new post for my notes on card choices.

[ShadWills]

Here are notes on my decklist and also on cards of interest.

Past in Flames is the "payoff" card. Again I wanted to get to straight GB.

Living wish has been great. It takes up space in the SB but this can be mitigated a bit by running wish targets that you might want to board in. like grave hate and even just lands.
With just a small(ish) wishboard (shriekmaw, wasteland, vampire hexmage, and maybe reclamation sage, and a fatty) it plays like a GBB1 vindicate that can win the game. BTW Gaea's Revenge has been so good here. Stoneforge mystic may be one of the best cards to wish for if you're in white.

Summoner's Pact might be very good. I hope more people will try it and give some feedback. It works well with Past in Flames here.

The mana package here is quite unique and works in part because of Past in flames.

Gamekeeper into Past in Flames dumping living wish and a ritual in the graveyard = awesome.

I really want a two mana value creature (like Stoneforge Mystic or Baleful Strix) in G or GB. I'm leaning toward Strangleroot Geist but I think the deck has to accommodate it.

Miracles was hard with this build as I could ignore Rest in Peace for a while but not completely. Then I finally kill it and get some value with Pernicious Deed only to die to Entreat the Angels; even with four deeds.

Pernicious deed has really been great for me and I can see why it should be considered "core" for this deck.

Crop rotation has been decent.

Entomb- I haven't been able to make it work.

Dungrove elder is so close to what I want in that slot but not quite there. It has been inconsistent.

Sensei's divining top is really great in this deck. It is probably a "core" card. Even without Counterbalance I think our Top's are better than Miracles' (at least vs them) because we have so many shuffle effects. Sometimes vs quick decks though it is quite durdly and even bad. It's so good but I'm on the lookout for something that can replace it. Maybe something with a completely different effect like just "is a fatty," I dunno. Haven't solved this one yet but I'm working on it.

Dark Depth's combo hasn't worked out for me. In general it wasn't "Oops, I win!" But instead "Ooops! Did I win?"
-"No. You lose."

Lately I started thinking more about the control aspect of this deck and wondering if maybe we don't need a "payoff" card at all but maybe just to play it straight control. After lurking some smallpox forums I came up with this (I don't really know what the sideboard looks like):

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower

3 Innocent Blood
1 Vraska the Unseen
3 Living Wish
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Fatal Push

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
5 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Cabal Pit
1 Strangleroot Geist
1 Bloodghast
1 Crop Rotation
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Wasteland
1 Entomb
1 Life from the Loam
1 Tranquil Thicket

SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Bloodghast
SB: 1 Bane of the Living
SB: 1 Mishra's Factory
SB: 1 Wasteland

It's not really tuned but it seems pretty good. And I think this is the direction I'd like to go, although it would be nice to squeeze at least -one- Green Sun fetchable fatty in there- I'm not sure it's necessary.

[Luthiereisfun]

Here are notes on my decklist and also on cards of interest.

Past in Flames is the "payoff" card. Again I wanted to get to straight GB.

Living wish has been great. It takes up space in the SB but this can be mitigated a bit by running wish targets that you might want to board in. like grave hate and even just lands.
With just a small(ish) wishboard (shriekmaw, wasteland, vampire hexmage, and maybe reclamation sage, and a fatty) it plays like a GBB1 vindicate that can win the game. BTW Gaea's Revenge has been so good here. Stoneforge mystic may be one of the best cards to wish for if you're in white.

Summoner's Pact might be very good. I hope more people will try it and give some feedback. It works well with Past in Flames here.

The mana package here is quite unique and works in part because of Past in flames.

Gamekeeper into Past in Flames dumping living wish and a ritual in the graveyard = awesome.

I really want a two mana value creature (like Stoneforge Mystic or Baleful Strix) in G or GB. I'm leaning toward Strangleroot Geist but I think the deck has to accommodate it.

Miracles was hard with this build as I could ignore Rest in Peace for a while but not completely. Then I finally kill it and get some value with Pernicious Deed only to die to Entreat the Angels; even with four deeds.

Pernicious deed has really been great for me and I can see why it should be considered "core" for this deck.

Crop rotation has been decent.

Entomb- I haven't been able to make it work.

Dungrove elder is so close to what I want in that slot but not quite there. It has been inconsistent.

Sensei's divining top is really great in this deck. It is probably a "core" card. Even without Counterbalance I think our Top's are better than Miracles' (at least vs them) because we have so many shuffle effects. Sometimes vs quick decks though it is quite durdly and even bad. It's so good but I'm on the lookout for something that can replace it. Maybe something with a completely different effect like just "is a fatty," I dunno. Haven't solved this one yet but I'm working on it.

Dark Depth's combo hasn't worked out for me. In general it wasn't "Oops, I win!" But instead "Ooops! Did I win?"
-"No. You lose."

Lately I started thinking more about the control aspect of this deck and wondering if maybe we don't need a "payoff" card at all but maybe just to play it straight control. After lurking some smallpox forums I came up with this (I don't really know what the sideboard looks like):

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower

3 Innocent Blood
1 Vraska the Unseen
3 Living Wish
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Fatal Push

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
5 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Cabal Pit
1 Strangleroot Geist
1 Bloodghast
1 Crop Rotation
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Wasteland
1 Entomb
1 Life from the Loam
1 Tranquil Thicket

SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Bloodghast
SB: 1 Bane of the Living
SB: 1 Mishra's Factory
SB: 1 Wasteland

It's not really tuned but it seems pretty good. And I think this is the direction I'd like to go, although it would be nice to squeeze at least -one- Green Sun fetchable fatty in there- I'm not sure it's necessary.

I'd be curious to see how it goes trying to go a more control route in a G/B shell.

I believe you mentioned how JUNK colors might have felt a little boring?

I started my Nic Fit build with JUNK colors and coming from mainly playing Maverick I didn't have quite as much fun. I have recently built Sneak Fit and I have to say if you're trying out different Nic Fit variants and don't want to play blue then you should totally check it out. Has a lot of very controlling elements but can pop off out of no where.

Winning with JUNk Nic Fit usually was always a long grind. Grindy games are fun but sometimes the deck just felt not quite fast enough at closing games. Sneak Fit can still grind just as well and if not better(hello punishing fire) but is able to use Sneak Attack + Emrakul to seal the deal. Lots of very fun interactions.


If you can sneak Emrakul out, yes that is very good. But even hardcasting an Imferno Titan against some decks just does it and you win in a more traditional way.

[rubblekill]

Knocked out 3 rounds of my Legacy League tonight (after going 4-0 in Modern with my new brew). Beat Miracles, ANT, and Goblins.

Goblins is pretty standard, not much to say about that.

ANT was my highlight of the night. I got a T2 win against them. I'm on the draw, my T1 was Veteran Explorer, they go off on their T2 and Ad Naseam from 20 life all the way down to 5 where they stop because of Dark Petition. They don't hit what they need, and Gitaxian Probe me for 2 life (bringing them to 3) trying to dig further. They fail, and also didn't look at my hand too closely. I untap, play a land, Strangleroot Geist, and hit for 3.

T2 win.

Miracles was a grind but I pulled it out. Apparently the rules of this league are that we don't have a match timer. So my usual go to of winning game 1 against Miracles and then timing out won't work. I take G1 in a 1 hour 15 minute game. Then I take G2 in a 90 minute game. My deck grinds like no other.

This is using my most recent GB build.

Can you post your list? I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that GB is my favourite version of the deck, and it is very strong and probably the most balanced.

[Luthiereisfun]

Can you post your list? I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that GB is my favourite version of the deck, and it is very strong and probably the most balanced.

I've messed around with different variants and numbers of cards but since I'm still learning where I want to be at with Sneak Fit I ultimately landed on using Arianhood's list he posted a few pages ago. Very solid.

[Brael]

Can you post your list? I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that GB is my favourite version of the deck, and it is very strong and probably the most balanced.

This is what I'm using for the league, due to the nature of it I can only iterate the list every couple months. This league technically started before Fatal Push was a thing (I've just been slow at playing my matches), so it never made my list for consideration. But in practice I'm still not sure if I want it.

Land 23
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
5 Forest
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Cavern of Souls

Creatures 17
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Strangleroot Geist
4 Dark Confidant
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth

Others 21
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Crop Rotation
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Nissa, Vital Force

Sideboard 15
3 Dark Depths
2 Thespian's Stage
1 Karakas
1 Crop Rotation
1 Carpet of Flowers
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Lost Legacy
1 Treetop Village
1 Sensei's Divining Top

The biggest question I have right now is with the Cavern of Souls. I've found that the match I most want it is against Miracles, but that's also the match where I least want Crop Rotation to get it.

[Arianrhod]

This is what I'm using for the league, due to the nature of it I can only iterate the list every couple months. This league technically started before Fatal Push was a thing (I've just been slow at playing my matches), so it never made my list for consideration. But in practice I'm still not sure if I want it.

Land 23
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
5 Forest
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Cavern of Souls

Creatures 17
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Strangleroot Geist
4 Dark Confidant
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth

Others 21
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Crop Rotation
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Nissa, Vital Force

Sideboard 15
3 Dark Depths
2 Thespian's Stage
1 Karakas
1 Crop Rotation
1 Carpet of Flowers
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Lost Legacy
1 Treetop Village
1 Sensei's Divining Top

The biggest question I have right now is with the Cavern of Souls. I've found that the match I most want it is against Miracles, but that's also the match where I least want Crop Rotation to get it.

Sell me on the Maze of Ith.

Also, discuss Diabolic Edict vs To the Slaughter.

No Fatal Pushes, even in the board, is interesting. Meta call because less Delver around you?

Courser better than Tracker #3?

Geist seems like it could be a higher impact card, but I've always been biased against that guy. Maybe a Thragtusk. I get not wanting too many high drops because of Bob, but Tusk seems like a good way to generate overwhelming advantage with Two Towers / Meren in a grindy game, plus he gives you a lot of life for Bob.

[ShadWills]

I love cavern of souls in elves because it is just back breaking. I have had less success with cavern of souls in this deck. As with many green decks I have learned to play through counterspells rather than around them. Threat after Deed after Deed after Threat- BAM! Note it is more difficult to play through counterspells against tempo decks.

As far as Crop Rotation is concerned of course having it countered is a blowout. It can be used effectively vs counters but you need to craft your scenarios. I like using Crop Rotation in the same deck as Living Wish as the targets can have synergy (Two Towers and DarkDepths combo for example) and you can move things between the main andsideboard and still have access to them. Also I see your keyd into Treetop Village and that's a great Jace Killer, though it does nothing vs Entreat the Angels. Just Get a Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and your set! Easy! I actually like Crop Rotation vs Miracles but I typically can only find space for one in my lists.

[ShadWills]

I'd be curious to see how it goes trying to go a more control route in a G/B shell.

I believe you mentioned how JUNK colors might have felt a little boring?

I started my Nic Fit build with JUNK colors and coming from mainly playing Maverick I didn't have quite as much fun. I have recently built Sneak Fit and I have to say if you're trying out different Nic Fit variants and don't want to play blue then you should totally check it out. Has a lot of very controlling elements but can pop off out of no where.

Winning with JUNk Nic Fit usually was always a long grind. Grindy games are fun but sometimes the deck just felt not quite fast enough at closing games. Sneak Fit can still grind just as well and if not better(hello punishing fire) but is able to use Sneak Attack + Emrakul to seal the deal. Lots of very fun interactions.


If you can sneak Emrakul out, yes that is very good. But even hardcasting an Imferno Titan against some decks just does it and you win in a more traditional way.

Yeah this is just how I felt about JunkFit. It seemed like it had big power with Swords and equipment and Sun Titan and Rhino but most of these cards never felt that high impact in practice. Like I always had to work up to that Bombshell moment, and when it came, they had an answer, and we just grind some more.

SneakFit looks good, but why not just play SneakShow? Maybe SneakFit can grind out games better? Play a better fair game?

[Luthiereisfun]

Yeah this is just how I felt about JunkFit. It seemed like it had big power with Swords and equipment and Sun Titan and Rhino but most of these cards never felt that high impact in practice. Like I always had to work up to that Bombshell moment, and when it came, they had an answer, and we just grind some more.

SneakFit looks good, but why not just play SneakShow? Maybe SneakFit can grind out games better? Play a better fair game?

That is exactly why! You don't need to use Emrakul to win. It's just very easy to include with fierce empath and have a quick win. I have won many games without emrakul and games without sneak attack. Since you don't go all in on the combo we don't have to have it to win. But it's potent enough that other decks have to fear/respect it.

[Brael]

Sell me on the Maze of Ith.

Also, discuss Diabolic Edict vs To the Slaughter.

No Fatal Pushes, even in the board, is interesting. Meta call because less Delver around you?

Courser better than Tracker #3?

Geist seems like it could be a higher impact card, but I've always been biased against that guy. Maybe a Thragtusk. I get not wanting too many high drops because of Bob, but Tusk seems like a good way to generate overwhelming advantage with Two Towers / Meren in a grindy game, plus he gives you a lot of life for Bob.

To explain every one of my choices, one core point has to be made first: Dark Confidant warps the deck. Every decision is made with that in mind.

Maze of Ith has a few roles, most notably it's a spell slot not a land slot, despite being a land. But, what this means is that I can Crop Rotation for it. I use Maze of Ith as a removal spell, something it's good at doing is making the opponent extend into a Deed. It's also a great way to deal with problem cards out of a lot of decks, for example it can buy you a couple turns against D&T until they find a Wasteland when their equipment is locking out your removal. It's also a good way to deal with creatures out of Reanimator, S&T, etc... it's a little weak vs Emrakul but it's better than nothing as a G1 plan. My primary larger meta reason is to deal with Marit Lage. But, Maze of Ith does some other stuff too, it's actually a very good card to improve combat on your side of the board. When you don't need removal you can use it to influence blocks by using Maze on your own guys to save them, and it can function as a pseudo vigilance if used at the end of combat step. Last, Crop Rotation turns it into a pretty good combat trick. I really like using it to blank Baleful Strix when attacking into a board or to stop Tarmogoyf on the back swing.

Diabolic Edict vs To The Slaughter is mainly because I haven't tried Slaughter yet. But, another reason is Bob. I've found that the limit of what you want in the deck is 75 mana pips and I'm currently at 74 with my build. I could afford one Slaughter but I'm not sure what Planeswalkers I really want to kill. Jace actually doesn't provide me many problems and neither does Liliana. Outside of those two, not many PW's see MB play. On the other hand, being able to kill an Emrakul, Marit Lage, etc... a turn earlier is very relevant.

The lack of Fatal Push is because I'm not sure where I need it. I would rather have Decay as a removal spell because it can hit non creatures and it's uncounterable. If I brought Push in, it would be to lower my curve in order raise it somewhere else. But I like my current count of 2 drops, I'm not sure going higher on both 1's and 3's would be better. I could see more Push over Edict, but I'm a big fan of the Edicts, they've helped me out many times since I don't have white to Path/StP bigger creatures. This is all theory though, the actual answer is that Aether Revolt became legal about a week after our League started, I've just been really bad about doing my matches (busy semester) so it wasn't actually in the format at the time. The rest of my answer holds though, the theory says I'm not interested in Push unless Miracles suffers a decline.

On the Courser vs Tracker debate, I actually agree with you that Tracker is a better card than Courser. The thing about my CA setup though, is that every card provides a 2 for 1 and they can all combine together for even greater effects. There's synergies between all of the various CA I have, and because they can work together for effects that are greater than the sum of their parts, a split proves to be more powerful than just the stronger card. It's a rare case of where I prefer synergy to raw power. I'm actually very interested in a 3 or even 4 Tracker build, but Courser does enough here that I'm willing to just run 2.

I agree on Geist, but the question is... what should that high impact card be? I know I want a 2 drop, and I'm about 75% certain I want something with haste that I can GSZ (this doesn't necessarily have to be a 2). I also like having the 5th enabler for Cabal Therapy in the deck, and I want a 2 for 1 or atleast a conditional 2 for 1. Geist looks really unimpressive but he's checking all my boxes.

I would consider a Thragtusk, but only in place of a current 4 or 5. The only option is Tusk over Meren, because Nissa is amazing and Master is required for removal. I'm not sure if I actually like Tusk over Meren. I'll think about it a bit, but my list is still locked in for another couple weeks before I can make between league changes.

[Brael]

I love cavern of souls in elves because it is just back breaking. I have had less success with cavern of souls in this deck. As with many green decks I have learned to play through counterspells rather than around them. Threat after Deed after Deed after Threat- BAM! Note it is more difficult to play through counterspells against tempo decks.

As far as Crop Rotation is concerned of course having it countered is a blowout. It can be used effectively vs counters but you need to craft your scenarios. I like using Crop Rotation in the same deck as Living Wish as the targets can have synergy (Two Towers and DarkDepths combo for example) and you can move things between the main andsideboard and still have access to them. Also I see your keyd into Treetop Village and that's a great Jace Killer, though it does nothing vs Entreat the Angels. Just Get a Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and your set! Easy! I actually like Crop Rotation vs Miracles but I typically can only find space for one in my lists.

If you look through my lists, you'll notice I play a lot of humans. It's not intentional, they just do what I'm looking for because the builds I focus on are lower curve and higher velocity. Between a core of Vet, Bob, Tracker, Eternal Witness, and Meren I'm playing around 13 humans. Cavern is great against Miracles but the real reason it's there is to deal with Chalice of the Void. Chalice lockouts absolutely fall apart to Cavern, and Crop Rotation is usually good enough to get in before Chalice happens (at least if you're going first). This is part of how I deal with decks like Eldrazi.

[MrIggins]

4 Veteran Explorers
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Fierce Empath
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Inferno Titan
1 Primeval Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Sneak Attack
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Sensei’s Divining Top

3 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
1 Badlands
2 Taiga
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath’s Stronghold

SB
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Toxic Deluge
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Slaughter Games
1 Scavenging Ooze

Played this 75 at SCG Worcester yesterday, finishing 6-3 just below the cut after losing my elimination round for day 2.

Round 1: 4-color control, stuck an early Sneak Attack in both games, not much to say here. Opponent didn't put up much resistance. 2-0 win, 1-0 record

Round 2: Miracles, I won game 1 in about 8 minutes after sticking a quick Sneak Attack and then Zenithing up Empath for Emrakul. Game 2 took about half an hour, Primeval Titan finding Tower/Stronghold absolutely won this game, and Tireless Tracker was also thoroughly impressive. Grinding out an opponent who has had Jace in play for several turns by casting the same Eternal Witness 5 times felt awesome. He conceded when I played 2 Deeds as insurance against Entreat/Mentor. 2-0, 2-0 record

Round 3: BUG Delver, game 1 I didn't really assemble much of anything and die to a Delver, game 2 he has 2 Deathrites and 2 Delvers backed up by Wasteland on my only black land, along with Daze and 3 Spell Pierces. Died with Taiga, Forest in play and a hand of Deluge, Deed, 2x Decay. Feels bad man. 0-2, 2-1 record

Round 4: Lands, I quickly assemble a Sneak Attack kill in game 1, and lead game 2 with Deathrite into Ooze. He Gambles for Stage to try and get a quick kill but discards the Stage (it was one of two cards) and quickly dies. 2-0, 3-1

Round 5: UW Stoneblade with a lot of basics. Lose a pretty quick game 1 to key counterspells on a couple development pieces and a quick Batterskull+TNN. Game 2 I am able to grind out with a relatively quick Sneak Attack kill. Game 3 was an incredible grindy game, Tireless Tracker drew me about 7 extra cards, Tower/Stronghold let me cast Bellower more than once, I found the clutch Deluges and Deeds to beat up his TNNs, really insane game in which the plan of becoming really threat-dense and cutting discard and Explorers really showed its value. 2-1, 4-1

Round 6: 4-color Deathblade with Daze, Stifle, Leovold. Interesting build. Game 1 we trade resources a bit, I take a hit from TNN with a Jitte but am able to reduce him to very few permanents with an Emrakul hit, and have the follow up Zenith to do it again. Game 2 I run Deluge, Deluge, Deed into three consecutive counterspells and die to a TNN. Game 3 I have Deluge on t3 for his turn 1 Heirarch, turn 2 Geist of St Traft opening. He sticks a Jace that I'm not able to clear up for a while but eventually grind through it by sticking a Top and a Sneak Attack, find Emrakul to deal lethal damage. Another awesome grindy game. 2-1, 5-2

Round 7: Sneak/Show. Game 1 I hit a couple of strong Therapies but am not able to assemble enough pressure to kill him before he finds action. Game 2 I die very swiftly with not much to be done about turn 2 Griselbrand. 0-2, 5-2

Round 8: Miracles. Take game 1 quickly, die to a fast Mentor in game 2 after I waste my Abrupt Decay (oops), grind out Game 3 with 2 towers + multiple Bellower casts. Terminus is comically bad against that card if you have the Towers online- it got Empath for Titan the first time, traded off for an Entreat token, Titan got the lands, Terminus let me just Bellow for Empath for Titan again, he conceded. Crazy game carried by Carpet of Flowers. 2-1, 6-2

Round 9: UR prowess. I lose game 1 on the verge of stabilizing to a Bedlam Reveler, which it turns out is really really hard to kill with a Pernicious Deed. I die on turn 3 in the following game without enough time to really put up much resistance. 0-2, 6-3.

64th place is 6-2-1, so the x-3s miss the cut. End up 99th out of ~700 people at the start of the event.

Thoughts:
-Bolt in the maindeck was pretty good, definitely prefer it to Push in my experience, but not necessarily required
-Thragtusk felt really bad. I boarded it out against the TNN decks because it doesn't really do anything relevant there. Probably going to move it out of the maindeck.
-Nissa was amazing, not that that's news
-Tireless Tracker surpassed every single one of my expectations, that card is fantastic
-STE still great
-Carpet of Flowers was unbelievable.
-Toxic Deluge is 100% the right card for the metagame right now. I even brought in 1 against Mentor Miracles. It's hard not to get use out of this card, and killing TNN cheaply is just too important right now.
-Primeval Titan as a single card engine is a really, really big deal against grindy decks
-Overall the strategy still feels good, I enjoyed being able to have an unfair plan that people had to use a lot of resources to fight, allowing for an advantage in a longer game
-Still struggles against unfair strategies.

Going forward, I'm looking to move Thragtusk out of the 75 for a maindeck Nissa, remove Ooze from the board and use the free spot from Nissa to go up to four Thoughtseize, or possibly try out 2x Blood Moon. Bolt in the maindeck is still in flux. I felt happy with the other slots.

The loss in round 9 stung but really, not much to be done there. Very happy with my finish and I think the deck, while still a little rough around the edges, has a lot of raw power in both its unfair and fair plans, which support each other very nicely. Still lots of tweaking to do, of course.

Happy to talk about sideboarding and individual card choices as people want.

Enjoy!

[Echelon]

I think that yes: this deck is not designed to operate with 3 mana. If that were the case, we would be playing Deathrite Shaman and Birds of Paradise instead of Veteran Explorer, so I feel that a 2-cmc zenith target that can crack Vet while providing some pressure might be worth a try.

What defines this deck is Vet, and when you play a game in which you can not make him die you are not executing your game plan and you might wind up with expensive cards clogged in your hand and just lose. We have 8 cards that can put a Vet into play but most lists (save for Crop Rotation ones and Nyx Fit which runs more than 1 Phyrexian Tower) have only 5 cards that can get it dead in an advantageous manner (wasting a removal spell to do it is quite subpar).

As for which of the 2 would I choose, I think I would go with Channeler Initiate. While Exemplar of Strength is better if you use him to kill a Vet, the other one goes more with our game plan if you draw it as it can be used as a dork in a Veteran-less scenario...

Ever tried keeping Explorer home as a blocker? Works quite well if you want it dead or you just want to buy time. Trust me, a 2 CMC Zenith target that can kill Explorer is not worth the space.


Sorry but this will be a long post. I've been building this up for a while. I will make some observations that are "obvious" but I guess I'm hoping for some feedback on everything, even the obvious stuff.

Hello all. I've been lurking the NicFit thread(s) for a couple years. This is my first post on The Source. Special thanks to Arianrhod, Echelon, and sdematt as your respective insights have really resonated with me.

Thank you. Reading that just made my day! I'll read into the rest (and try to come up with something useful to say) tomorrow, I've got some catching up to do.

[ShadWills]

If you look through my lists, you'll notice I play a lot of humans. It's not intentional, they just do what I'm looking for because the builds I focus on are lower curve and higher velocity. Between a core of Vet, Bob, Tracker, Eternal Witness, and Meren I'm playing around 13 humans. Cavern is great against Miracles but the real reason it's there is to deal with Chalice of the Void. Chalice lockouts absolutely fall apart to Cavern, and Crop Rotation is usually good enough to get in before Chalice happens (at least if you're going first). This is part of how I deal with decks like Eldrazi.

Awesome. Wow I'm really glad I got IN on the conversation because I am picking up more personalized insight. I'm actually a fan of Crop Rotation in general. That sounds like a good way through Chalice. I have been wanting to try Bob in NicFit. Have you considered Life from the Loam? It's good vs miracles, and can pick up some slack for crop rotation.

[Brael]

Awesome. Wow I'm really glad I got IN on the conversation because I am picking up more personalized insight. I'm actually a fan of Crop Rotation in general. That sounds like a good way through Chalice. I have been wanting to try Bob in NicFit. Have you considered Life from the Loam? It's good vs miracles, and can pick up some slack for crop rotation.

Life from the Loam mills my GSZ targets, I don't want my threats in the graveyard.

[Lueseto]

Ever tried keeping Explorer home as a blocker? Works quite well if you want it dead or you just want to buy time. Trust me, a 2 CMC Zenith target that can kill Explorer is not worth the space.


Yeah, but opponents don't always have creatures... Good luck trying to block a flipped Delver with Veteran too. I guess I'll have to keep track of the amount of times I'm in need for it or just test it out when the cards come out.

[Yutao]

My 75 at SCG Worchester-

17 Creatures:
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Dragonlord Dromoka
1x Eternal Witness
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
4x Siege Rhino
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Thragtusk
1x Tireless Tracker
4x Veteran Explorer

1 Planeswalker:
1x Garruk, Relentless

20 Spells:
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Pernicious Deed
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Path to Exile
1x Abzan Charm
2x Sensei's Divining Top

22 Lands:
2x Bayou
3x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Plains
2x Savannah
2x Scrubland
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volrath's Stronghold
3x Windswept Heath

15 Sideboard:
3x Thoughtseize
1x Pithing Needle
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Golgari Charm
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Garruk, Apex Predator
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Containment Priest
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Choke
1x Toxic Deluge

It was my first large event, but I ended up going 6-3 after losing my win and in against Infect in 3 games.

Round 1 vs Miracles: Played 1 threat after another after blind naming Top with Therapy on the play game 1. Ended up stripping his hand and hitting him with Sigarda a lot. Game 2 was much more grindy after he resolved t4 Jace, but a t5 Choke locked him out of three lands. I dig for a threat while he digs for lands. I end up resolving a Sigarda to take out his Jace, but he miracles Entreat for 3 and hits me down to 2. I spin Top into Deed and blow up his board. 2-0 Win, 1-0 Record

Round 2 vs DnT: This was the backup feature match and I let my nerves get the better of me. End up grabbing 7 on my mull to 6 in game 1 and mull down to 5. Then I mull down to 5 in g2 and never find a Deed/Toxic D. Not a great match. 0-2 Loss, 1-1 Record

Round 3 vs Eldrazi: I end up stripping 2 Warping Wails from his hand in game 1 and beat him down with a Thragtusk and a Rhino after Pathing most of his threats. In game 2, he ended up getting me low with a smasher, then resolving a Winter Orb to lock me out of untapping and finished the game with a large Endless One. In Game 3, we we're both low on action after I Therapy away his threats. He ends up resolving an Endbringer with a Winter Orb out, but Garruk Relentless eventually took it out after he blocked a Wolf Token. It then took 5 turns of uptapping lands to play a deed and eventually blow up his Winter Orb. After I untap with 7 lands, flip my Nissa by fetching in response to his Dismember, and playing a Thragtusk, I end up grinding him out. 2-1 Win, 2-1 Record

Round 4 vs Dredge: In game 1, he ends up with about 25 power on board on turn 3, oh well. Game 2 involved an insane amount of flood from me after he gets off to a slow start. I saw a Veteran Explorer, a Toxic Deluge and 10 lands in my Top 12 cards. End up getting hit by Dragonlord Kolaghan for lethal. 0-2 Loss, 2-2 Record

Round 5 vs Bug Delver: Game 1, early Therapy combined with early Rhinos lead to an early victory. Rhinos don't care about Leovold. Game 2, he ends up hitting me with early discard and eventually resolve a True-Name that I can't deal with. I end up praying for a Deed or a Deluge in my Top spin, but end up finding three lands. Game 3 was a much harder grind fest. We trade resources back and forth until we're both empty handed, but he has a Flipped Delver vs a Choke and Divining Top. Delver ends up hitting me down to 5, but I draw E-Wit into Path to deal with it. He fatal pushes my E-Wit end of turn, but untaps with only a Bayou. I end up finding a GSZ to tutor Thrun, which carried me to victory in 2 turns. 2-1 Victory, 3-2 Record

Round 6 vs Shardless Bug: We both end up stripping each others hands in game 1, but eventually he cascades his Agent into a 6/7 Goyf. Turns out 6/7 is larger than a Siege Rhino for some ungodly reason. Game 2 involved playing a much more fair game, but I did manage to out draw them to get ahead on raw card count via Tireless Tracker, Abzan Charm, and E-Wit, end up hitting him with Sigarda. Game 3 was Jace vs Choke+Top. He was locked out of 4/8 lands, but happened to have 4 DRS vs me. He misplays and ends up Animating his Creeping Tarpit into my Pernicious Deed which proceeds to 5 for 1 him. My Sigarda wipes his Jace out, but he slams Goyf. Lotv can't stop this Jace-Slaughtering, hexproof, flying Angel from slamming into his face after I Path his Goyf. 2-1 Victory, 4-2 Record

Round 7 vs 4c Control. I drew three Deeds and 2 Rhinos vs his True-Name Nemesis. His Abrupt Decays take care of the first two Deeds, but the third Deed ends up staying. Turns out, I can race TNN with Rhino and I end up never popping Deed. Game 2 involved an equipped Jitte on a TNN and a t3 JTMS. Can't beat that fast of a start. Game 3 turned into another grind fest, but I end up getting the Twin Towers online. I end up drawing close to 4 cards off of Tracker. Last turn of the game and he was at 2 health after forcing my first Rhino. I end up casting E-Wit, sacing E-Wit to Phyrexian Tower for just enough mana to recast Rhino. 2-1 Victory, 5-2 Record

Round 8 vs Burn. T3 Dragonlord Dromoka game 1. Lose game 2 to 2x Swiftspear after I kept a one lander. T2 Siege Rhino into t3 Siege Rhino, into t4 Thragtusk in game 3. End up with 30 minutes left in the round and I end up finding some over priced hot dog to eat before my final game. Four dollars for a hot dog is too much. For real. 2-1 Victory, 6-2 Record

Round 9 vs Infect. He mulls to 5 after I hard misplay and not GSZ for E-Wit to grab Path to Exile, top decks Beserk to kill me. T2, I GSZ for Melira early and hit him with Rhinos. Note, you never attack with Melira, never. Game 3 I end up needing a third land to GSZ for Melira. I end up finding Top and finding 2 lands in the Top spin. He then lethals me with Invigorate.

End up around 100th place after missing Day 2.

Thoughts on the day:
+More Deathrite Shamans in the 75 against any control deck where Vet package comes out.
+Garruk being a 4 mana sorcery speed bolt vs creatures was decent. Gotta kill Delver somehow.
+Abzan Charm is insanely flexible. being able to exile large creatures, while also drawing cards felt so good.
+Flip Nissa is essentially a 2 for 1, and I don't mind it taking the slot of Meren.
+The Twin Towers package is disgusting, keep running it.
+Choke was insane against most of the format, it's the enchantment that keeps on giving.
-Dragonlord Dromoka was underwhelming, might replace with Prime Time.
-I never got to side in C-Priest, might just switch it out for a Teeg.
-I never got to cast Apex Predator against anyone.

I think that Tsunami might be a replacement for Choke, while I need to dig up my Carpet of Flowers. Tireless Tracker might be 2-of due to how great that card is at grinding out wins.
New Nissa might be a choice to replace Garruk as a way to get CA while also being able to kill JTMS. However, my opponents can draw a ton of cards against me, but they still need a way to deal with 4 Rhinos.

Overall I thought that 6-3 finish was pretty good for my first Comp-Rel tournament. Feel free to point out any cards you don't think/you really like about the list.

[ShadWills]

Round 5: UW Stoneblade with a lot of basics. Lose a pretty quick game 1 to key counterspells on a couple development pieces and a quick Batterskull+TNN. Game 2 I am able to grind out with a relatively quick Sneak Attack kill. Game 3 was an incredible grindy game, Tireless Tracker drew me about 7 extra cards, Tower/Stronghold let me cast Bellower more than once, I found the clutch Deluges and Deeds to beat up his TNNs, really insane game in which the plan of becoming really threat-dense and cutting discard and Explorers really showed its value. 2-1, 4-1
-Tireless Tracker surpassed every single one of my expectations, that card is fantastic
-Carpet of Flowers was unbelievable.
-Toxic Deluge is 100% the right card for the metagame right now. I even brought in 1 against Mentor Miracles. It's hard not to get use out of this card, and killing TNN cheaply is just too important right now.


So... Yeah I haven't been running Tireless Tracker in my particular lists but I have playtested with him a bit and he seems made for this deck. It feels a little like Wizards wants to give us the three drop not the two.
I am in love with carpet of flowers if there is- like, any blue in the meta.
Also I'm lovin Toxic Deluge but I'm also liking 4 Pernicious Deed, so...
Especially about your comment on round 5: I have found 4 Green Sun's Zenith and 3 Veteran Explorer a good base for the main. But I still see a lot of people running 4 Vet. Also discard has felt really weak lately in general.

I know discard is like our "out" to combo decks, but it seems kinda weak everywhere else. And combo decks are our weakness(ish). And I wonder if- I dunno- if extraction is better ther and if (this is just freestyling) we should extract combo and (consider) drop(ing) discard in other places. I'm aware that we use cabal therapy as counterspell hate but I'm personally on the "play through Force" tip.

[ShadWills]

Life from the Loam mills my GSZ targets, I don't want my threats in the graveyard.

I respect your opinion and I will try to never be disparaging unless the humor is obvious. Anyway, ever heard of Orcish Librarian? It took me a long time to see that Librarian is actually awesome and has a very small drawback. Also Two Towers likes threats in the grave right?

[ShadWills]

Yeah, but opponents don't always have creatures... Good luck trying to block a flipped Delver with Veteran too. I guess I'll have to keep track of the amount of times I'm in need for it or just test it out when the cards come out.

I feel like if you need more sac outlets for Vet then Innocent Blood and Diabolic Intent are really good. I understand that it's not the same as tutoring your sac outlet but the effect is often powerful enough to justify- uh, non-tutorability.

[Yutao]

[AKH] Vizier of the Menagerie 3G

Creature-Naga Cleric

You may look at the top card of your library.

You may cast the top card of your library if it's a creature card.

You may spend mana as though it was mana of any color to cast creature spells.

3/4

http://imgur.com/pDkOnGg

Possibly good enough?

[Echelon]

Yeah, but opponents don't always have creatures... Good luck trying to block a flipped Delver with Veteran too. I guess I'll have to keep track of the amount of times I'm in need for it or just test it out when the cards come out.

Luckily Delver is one of our best MUs. And if you have to GSZ (through Daze for sure vs. Delver) for a 2 mana card you're already at 4 mana by the time you can pull it off. By that time you're good to go and don't need to kill your Explorer anymore.

Edit: If you want a 2 CMC card to get rid of Veteran Explorer, try Diabolic Intent. Doesn't need to resolve to kill Explorer, is a (free) Demonic Tutor when it does resolve.

@ShadWills: Your posts have an edit-button :wink:


[AKH] Vizier of the Menagerie 3G

Creature-Naga Cleric

You may look at the top card of your library.

You may cast the top card of your library if it's a creature card.

You may spend mana as though it was mana of any color to cast creature spells.

3/4

http://imgur.com/pDkOnGg

Possibly good enough?

Take out the "possibly". OMFG. Along a package of Top, Library, Courser and Tracker that thing is perfect. Holy fucking shit. It has CMC > 3, toughness > 3, it's not legendary. Damn!

[Yutao]

Take out the "possibly". OMFG. Along a package of Top, Library, Courser and Tracker that thing is perfect. Holy fucking shit. It has toughness > 3, it's not legendary. Damn!

It might take the slot of Meren/Nissa Vastwood Seer. The only problem I see with it, it that it doesn't provide any value when it immediately hits/hits your end step, unless you have 7+ mana and a creature on top. It does have inherent synergy with the amount of shuffle effects that we have tho. Also naga cleric.

[Echelon]

It might take the slot of Meren/Nissa Vastwood Seer. The only problem I see with it, it that it doesn't provide any value when it immediately hits/hits your end step, unless you have 7+ mana and a creature on top. It does have inherent synergy with the amount of shuffle effects that we have tho. Also naga cleric.

Sure, sure. But if your opponent doesn't answer it, they're going to fall behind. Hard. And very quickly.

And yes, naga cleric. It's officially a thing now. The art would have been better if he was petting a rhino though...