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B88
03-16-2017, 01:16 PM
http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Monastery-Mentor-MtG-Art-e1466087888341.jpg


Miracle Mentor

Hi guys, some of you might know me, my name is Claudio Bonanni and I am a very passionate legacy player, and part of a great team - *Wooded Team*(https://www.facebook.com/WoodedTeam/?fref=ts). Now I’m going to talk about a deck I’ve played for almost all of my big tournamentsL Mentor Miracles. Let's start with some history: Dig Through Time was all over the metagame, and I picked this deck, which I was lucky enough to take it down with. *

My report from GP Lille:*http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...th-Miracle-2-0

Deck History.

Let's start with the history of the deck - the first time it was play was during GP Kyoto in 2015 by Kazuya Murakami who reached the Top8 with a new Miracles list featuring Monastery Mentor, as well as Stoneforge Mysti. When I saw this list, I felt really excited to try it, as it reminded me of the old Nasif Baseruption!**So I started to play this list online and with my Wooded Teamates. After a few weeks, I was quite disappointed with the Stoneforges, which felt really slow and didn’t seem cohesive with the shell, so I cut them to make more room for reactive cards like Snapcaster Mage and Pyroblast, in a metagame full of Dig Through Time.*

Kazuya GP Kyoto
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Monastery Mentor
Instants [18]

1 Counterspell
2 Dig Through Time
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries [7]

3 Terminus
4 Ponder
Enchantments [4]

4 Counterbalance
Artifacts [5]

1 Batterskull
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands [20]

1 Arid Mesa
1 Plains
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
5 Island
3 Meddling Mage*
3 Pyroblast*
1 Divert*
1 Engineered Explosives*
1 Flusterstorm*
1 Grafdigger's Cage*
1 Containment Priest*
1 Pyroclasm*
1 Redirect*
1 Rest in Peace*
1 Wear // Tear*

Bonanni Claudio GP Lille
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Monastery Mentor
Instants [19]

1 Counterspell
2 Dig Through Time
2 Pyroblast
3 Daze
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
Sorceries [7]

3 Terminus
4 Ponder
Enchantments [4]

4 Counterbalance
Artifacts [4]

4 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands [20]

1 Plains
2 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island

SB
1 Red Elemental Blast*
1 Disenchant*
1 Wear // Tear*
1 Engineered Explosives*
1 Surgical Extraction*
1 Rest in Peace*
1 Pyroclasm*
2 Flusterstorm*
2 Vendilion Clique*
2 Ethersworn Canonist*
1 Blood Moon*
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor*

After the banning, I had to change the powerful copies of Dig Through Time to other cards that were “good enough”. I ended up choosing Jace, the Mind Sculptor, which is a really good card, but really not even close to the power level of Dig Through Time...

Claudio Bonanni stock list – post DTT Banning
Creatures [6]

2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Monastery Mentor
Instants [17]

2 Counterspell
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries [8]

4 Ponder
4 Terminus
Enchantments [3]

3 Counterbalance
Planeswalkers [2]

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts [4]

4 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands [20]

1 Arid Mesa
1 Plains
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Misty Rainforest

SB
1 Disenchant*
1 Wear // Tear*
2 Flusterstorm*
2 Vendilion Clique*
2 Blood Moon*
1 Izzet Staticaster*
1 Engineered Explosives*
1 Containment Priest*
1 Rest in Peace*
3 Pyroblast*



Claudio Bonanni stock list – post Sensei's Diving Top Banning
[/SIZE]
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Portent
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Counterspell
3 Sword to plowsheres
4 Terminus
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Monastery Mentor
1 Jace the Mind Scultptor
3 predict

4 island
1 plains
3 tundra
3 volcanic island
4 flooded strand
3 polluted delta
2 arid mesa


Side
3 flusterstorm
1 esplosivi ingegnerizzati
2 Ethersworn Chanonist
2 blood moon
1 wear//tear
1 Pyroclasm
2 surgical extraction
3 pyroblast

Why Mentor Miracles?*


Well, I’ve been always quite skeptical of the classic Miracle version and I was looking for something that might play also an offensive role, instead of wait until you get enough set-up of your future draws. More than that, I was looking for something less clunky and more proactive, something with a good balance in both the early game and the late game. Almost all you know how Miracles works, you usually tread water until you stabilize the board and than drop some powerful stuff like Jace, Entrat the Angels or Mentor. But this list is different...you might be the one who takes the initiative by smashing your Mentor on turn 3 with Daze/Force of Will backup! A player, better than me, wrote*"With the Mentor version, you have a quick way to turn the corner and sometimes you also get to force them to play from behind, which is not where Delver decks traditionally thrive. When they are trying to play catch-up and are spending their turns answering your threats, you are in the driver seat. Now that's what I call control."* This explains the concept really well, and it really spoke to me..."be in control". I don't always like to be the one who has to answer each question, I prefer to be the one asking the question*. Give to your opponent the possibility to make a mistake!
Some reasons:*
1) Legacy has been a strange format, with many different decks and weird cards, so in my opinion the best way for handle an unknown opponent playing a random deck is to disrupt his game plan as much as possible while also developing your own proactive game plan.

2) Another good reason to play this version is that it has a really good MU against all other versions of Miracles, since you can drop your Counterbalance on T2 with Daze backup to fight through your opponent’s Counterspell or an opponent's Counterbalance. You’re also able to drop a Mentor early, that forces your opponent to answer it, otherwise they might fall in 2 or 3 turns.*

3) This deck has a good MU against Delver decks, since your Daze behaves like Force of Will against them. All Delver decks based work with few lands so your tax counters become really powerful until the late game. If you can handle their threats in the early game, you will have a good chance to win. I think that the only hard Delver MU is against Grixis Delver, where they are able to get their token generation online before you, while attacking your resources with Cabal Therapy.*

While other versions have their own positions defined throughout the game, that role conversion is even more emphasized in this deck, because it’s much more easy to control each aspect: sometimes you’ll be the beatdown, other times, the control player. In my experience in playing this deck, it’s quite a bit more difficult to play than other, more control-oriented builds of Miracles. This is because you have to build your own gameplan, answering each threat while also deploying your own before your opponent has the opportunity to do the same. This means that you have to figure out what cards your opponent has in hand, as well as what potential cards they have in their list, in order to predict what you must play around as the game progresses.
Play well this requires a lot of experience, because you need to figure out what will be the next move in order to drop your Mentor to win the game. It happen, more than you think, that you will be tempt to Sword or Terminate some opponent's creatures, but it might be a mistake since you can simply win the game by playing one spell and counter it with Daze/Fow, creating an army of tokens and than close the game before you opponent. As i said before, the biggest problem here is develop your strategy around your enemy...

New update.
In past few weeks, I’ve been testing a “new” card that might be considered a suitable Dig Through Time substitute; Predict. Predict gives us a source of card advantage, as well as digging through the top of our library to clear the top 3. I am not sure about how many copies I should be playing, since I am not the biggest fan of cantripping into more cantrips, but 2 seem like a good number now. If we spend each turn cantripping, we might be too slow, so that’s something that we should keep in mind. The cards I cut to make room for it was the 2nd Jace, the Mind Sculptor, since it rather slow in a lean deck like this, and the metagame is still full of Red blast effects. The second card I cut was the 2nd Counterspell, since that’s still really situational too, and we already have more early interaction compared to most miracles decks.

Sensei's is gone as well as Counterbalance, the wolrd is not the same anymore!

So i accepted the challenge and i've started to build something again, end up to try cards like Portent (as well as other miracle players) and move from virtual card advantage to real card advantage, using Predict.
A new metagame was facing the Legacy panorama, with different kind of combo and the rise of Grixis Delver as tier 1. So i decided to try the black splash instead the red and fight to the Ovino spring. I finished the tournament with a 6-2 wasn't enough, but as always a really good friend, Johannes Gutbrod, comes to me, i showed him the idea and we start to speak about the future updated for this deck!
Day after day we keep in touch and develop the deck, which we believe, would be good enough for any tournament even without our Top! after all the black splash wasn't good enough as i thought and we move back to the red. The thing was that the Rebs and Blood Moon are both strong weapons if you need to fight random decks or blue based decks, obv discards effects might be the best answer for combo...but, wasn't just enough! :rolleyes:




Don't Daze me Bro!

Daze is probably the most controversial card in this version of Miracles. The most common argument of criticizers is that Daze basically forces us to Time Walk ourselves, but is that really true, and does it really matter? In order to answer this question yourself, I think you really need to play this deck for a while, and, by a while, I mean at the at the very least, 6 months. Daze is both the most offensive and the most defensive card in this build. Playing it wisely will reward you in droves, but, play it incorrectly – even just a little bit – and it might become your downfall. All control players know how important mana development is, but that concept is rather over-exaggerated in Legacy Miracles. This isn’t always a control deck, and you can often end on 4-5 mana in play to play everything you need to. I’ve played something like 300+ Miracles mirrors during my years of playing this list, and the same thing always happens: Both of us with top in play, start to draw and play lands, but you both stop around the 5th land, where you draw only spells. During my last two GP’s, I’ve played against 6 Miracles Mirrors, and I’ve won all of them. Not because I’ve been better than my opponent each time (I’d never think of myself in that way), but because Daze gave me free wins that allows me to counter a turn two Counterbalance or a Four Mana Jace, as well as being able to operate more leanly and more efficiently than my opponent’s decks.

Even more, Daze is a powerful card when you are able to play a weapon like Monastery Mentor: dazing your own spells might be low value, but, in a pinch, it really works!**
Daze has saved me in many situations, against cards like Golgari Charm, Toxic Deluge or the ever-present Lightning Bolt. Some players might argue that once your opponent knows that your are playing Daze, he will simply play around it the rest of the game. While this might be true, does it really make it any less effective? Years ago, a good friend of mine told me*"if your opponent will play around Daze, it means that it already does what you need".* At that time I didn't understand this little sentence, but game after game, I’ve finally figured out its hidden meaning.*


[SIZE=3]Card selection

Creatures/Finisher
4 Monastery Mentor: it's why we are playing this deck. Is only a 2/2, but with his ability and prowess is able to take down the game very quickly. Decrease the number to 3 would be probably a mistake, since the entire deck is built to abuse it. Notably, is the only 3 drop for Counterbalance, which is another good reason to play the full playset.*
2 Snapcaster Mage: has been always one of the greatest cards in control decks, across any format, so you should not be surprised to see this dude here**I would like to play 3 of them, but it's still usually a CMC3 which might be clunky at times.*
2 Jace the Mind Sculptor: this card has been a great in control decks as well as Snapcaster, it does different things, like close the game ofter several turns. But in this kind of deck might be quite clunky since it cost 4 mana sorcery speed and sometimes you can find an hard time to cast it, if you played Daze.

Counters.
4 Force of Will: I should not have to explain anything here*.*I would consider going down to 3 if the metagame was more blue, to add some cards like Pyroblast or any other counter like the old but good, Counterspell.*
3 Daze: Like I’ve told you before, Daze is the the key counter here, but I still thinkithat the 4th might be too much since you just need one of them during the early game. Here, it takes the perfect offensive role, when you smash you Mentor on the battlefield on turn 3.
It’s also extremely effective against all tempo decks that run Delver of Secrets, since it’s often a hardcounter, and it’s also a CMC 2 card for Counterbalance, which is always a fine reason.*
3 Counterspell: Some would say that this is an old one, but it’s still good! Still a good counter to fight in the mid/late game, and I could never play at least one.

Cantrips
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Portent: this cards is not like Top as all we know, but still a good card for this deck and allow you to play Terminus during oppo's upkeep. And sometimes, when you will be in control, you can re-order the top3 cards of the opponent deck.
3 Predict: the card is huge! yeah i like it. With it you are able to discard a bad card and draw 2 at the same time. Also with Portent you can fateless some problems from opponent's deck.

Removal
4 Terminus: Is the best sweeper ever printed, so why wouldn’t you ever play a full set?*
3 Swords to Plowshares: Like Terminus, StP is the greatest removal for just one W mana. I might see only 3 copies if you are playing one main-deck Pyroblast since it can deal with Delver and all other blue creatures.

Sideboard
Sideboard choices have been always a controversial point. I don’t think there is always a “best” sideboard, but there is a “good compromise”. The most important thing when you are building a sideboard is not build it like “60+15 mode” but a full 75. What do I mean? That you should create a good balance between your maindeck and your sideboard, thinking about which cards might fit better than another in your 75. I'm not here to tell you what you should play or not play, since it will depend what is your playstyle and metagame for sure. All my choices have been made after many test in a random field and with my own playstyle so you might be sceptic about some cards.

2 Flusterstorm - 3 Pyroblast: those cards are perfect to fight combo and Delver decks. I think every Miracle list should at least have those cards in sideboard. Flusterstorm is basically and hard counter for a delver deck, as well as Pyroblast.
2 Vendilion Clique - 1 Containment Priest: they are my disruption pieces for combo and also for some grinding MU. You might change the Priest with Canonist or something else, but Vedilion should be here always. Is perfect to hit a Decay and than drop your lovely Blood Moon, or cast it in response to any activetion or good spells like Show and Tell.
1 Izzet Staticaster - 1 Engineered Explosives*- 1 Wear//Tear - 1 Disenchant: those cards are here for fight random MU and Vial tribals like Death and Taxes. You can swap many of those cards with other, i don't think there is a stock core. I like the split 1Wear/1Disenchant, since sometimes against Wasteland-base decks you don't want fetch into Volcanic for destroy some annoying artifacts.
2 Blood Moon: many players don't like this card, i can get it. But i don't see why i shouldn't play a card that it give you (often) free win when it resolves.

More contents
MKM series final Prague - Johannes Gutbrod
G1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKMzKLEgSXU&t=1s
G2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzup9w6in3s

Sideboarding
Classic Miracle: Very Favorable - as i wrote before the MU is quite easy for us since we can drop Balance on T2 with Daze backup. Pre-board is quite random, if we have many white cards we are going to lose. Post-board we know what fight, so counter a Balance is not an option, but remember that the Mentor is the best way to get the game.

Bring in: 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 2 Vendilion Clique, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Wear//Tear
Out: 4 Terminus, 3 Swords, 1 Plains

Show and Tell: Even - Like all other combo decks if we draw only withe we might be dead on T3. Post-board all change since Pyro and Vendilion works excellent.

Bring in: 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 2 Vendilion Clique, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Wear//Tear, 1 Ethersworn Canonist, 1 Containment Priest
Out: 4 Terminus, 3 Swords, 1 Plains, 2 Monastery Mentor

Death and Taxes: Slightly Favorable - Pre-board we have to fight Vial with Fow or Daze and drop our Mentor as soos as we can. Post-board we get EE and all Disenchant effects so we are able to deal with all those artifacts.

Bring in: 1 Disenchant, 1 Wear//Tear, 1 EE, 1 Containment Priest
Side out: 3 Daze (otd), 2 Fow and 1 Mentor (otp)


4c Control: Slightly Favorable - Terminus is our best friend here since Swords is quite often a 1x2 against Leovold, Strix or Snapcaster. Post board you should treat it as a control so take out almost all Swords.

Bring in: 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 2 Blood Moon, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Wear//Tear
Out: 4 Force of Will, 1 Mentor, 3 Swords

Delver Decks: Favorable - It's usually an easy MU since they are not able to deal with all our threats like Balance or Mentor. Post-board is the same, even more if we run Blood Moon. Don't forget to keep Daze, even on the draw since you need to fight in the early game.

Bring in: 2 Pyroblast, 2 Blood Moon, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Wear//Tear
Out: 4 Force of Will, 1 Counterspell, 1 Jace, 1 Mentor

Shardless Bug: Slightly Favorable - During G1 we need to fight Visions and Jace basically. Post-board we have Pyroblast and Blood Moon to close the game.

Bring in: 2 Pyroblast, 2 Blood Moon, 1 Wear//Tear, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 2 Vendilion Clique
Out: 4 Force of Will, 3 Daze, 1 Monastery Mentor




Edit by: Minniehajj thx you man!

Minniehajj
03-16-2017, 01:27 PM
Great to see this! I'm Minniehajj on here, Claudio ;)

Hrothgar
03-16-2017, 03:33 PM
Hi Claudio, thank you so much for this primer.
Here we can find good explanation about the Mentor tech, writed by the hand who have pilot the deck at the top.
The chapter about Daze is great imho.
Great job.

B88
03-17-2017, 06:50 AM
Thx you dudes!!! let's see if we can find out something new :tongue:

pnutbutr
03-17-2017, 11:21 AM
Excellent write up, Claudio! Thank you for that. Just one question regarding the new sideboard. Is there a reason behind playing 2 Pyroblast and 1 REB? I would figure that just going with 3 Pyroblasts would be better in a Mentor heavy deck since it can be played without a blue target in a tight spot.

filln
03-17-2017, 11:36 AM
Excellent write up, Claudio! Thank you for that. Just one question regarding the new sideboard. Is there a reason behind playing 2 Pyroblast and 1 REB? I would figure that just going with 3 Pyroblasts would be better in a Mentor heavy deck since it can be played without a blue target in a tight spot.

Helps reduce the risk of Surgical Extraction taking out all of your Pyroblasts. I suppose it's just a balancing act between how much you value that protection vs. the scenario that you mentioned where that extra Prowess trigger gets you there.

Whitefaces
03-17-2017, 11:46 AM
The scenario comes up quite often, I'd play with all Pyroblasts personally.

B88
03-17-2017, 01:37 PM
Excellent write up, Claudio! Thank you for that. Just one question regarding the new sideboard. Is there a reason behind playing 2 Pyroblast and 1 REB? I would figure that just going with 3 Pyroblasts would be better in a Mentor heavy deck since it can be played without a blue target in a tight spot.

obv pyro is better with mentor but sometimes (and it happen) they cabal therapy you for pyro or Mage call it :cry:

pnutbutr
03-17-2017, 03:30 PM
obv pyro is better with mentor but sometimes (and it happen) they cabal therapy you for pyro or Mage call it :cry:

I gotcha. Thanks for replying

B88
03-22-2017, 10:41 AM
here some SB updates!!! :tongue:

B88
03-27-2017, 03:22 AM
Little report about yesterday. We were 98 players.

T1: 4c Delver 2-0

T2: Death and Taxes 1-1 (probably i would win G3 since he has only Sofi in hand, zero permanents on board, and i had Jace, Swords + Top in play)

T3: Junk 2-0

T4: ANT 2-1

T5: Bug Delver 2-0

T6: Miracle 2-1

T7: ID

Top8

won against Ant and than lost by Sneak (mull both game at 6 and i didn't see any FOW both games)

Btw the list looks great, i think that only the SB need to be fixed against combo like Show.

Amunshax
03-27-2017, 08:08 AM
Classic Miracle: Very Favorable - as i wrote before the MU is quite easy for us since we can drop Balance on T2 with Daze backup.


Your chance to draw Daze and Balance is around 20% no Ponder or Brainstorm involved T1. And you do not always start, it only matters in about 10% of the games and if the opponents dont tap out on T1 i dont think it is that Favorable.

B88
03-27-2017, 04:24 PM
Your chance to draw Daze and Balance is around 20% no Ponder or Brainstorm involved T1. And you do not always start, it only matters in about 10% of the games and if the opponents dont tap out on T1 i dont think it is that Favorable.

i didn't any math about my percentage to have both cards in hand including all the infinite cards combinations or situation you could face, but in all my tournaments i won almost all mirror matches, here the last one 2 days ago: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/131358616
or you can see the final against Ruel as wel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcWt35Wj2ZE

People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

Minniehajj
03-27-2017, 04:46 PM
People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

That quote is GOLDEN.

Hrothgar
03-27-2017, 06:55 PM
People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

No mercy elemental blast

twndomn
03-30-2017, 01:30 PM
While it's not about Daze per se, BBD wrote about why he dislikes Entreat and prefers Mentor. This is an important discussion/topic.

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13743&writer=Brian+Braun-Duin&articledate=1-19-2017

"I think the major difference in how I see Miracles compared to others is that I don't view it as a control deck; I view it as a midrange deck. I think people have adapted to beating Miracles played as a control deck...."

"I firmly believe that playing a build with Entreat the Angels instead of Mentor is flawed. I also feel that playing builds that are trying to grind out card advantage with cards like Predict is also flawed...."

say no to scurvy
03-30-2017, 02:12 PM
Yea if BBD wants to jam a mentor turn 3 and spout things like "now that's what I call control" then good for him, that's not how entreat-predict builds are played. Also AFAIK if anything from reddit is true he was given a decklist from some legacy podcast people (brainstorm show I think?), made 2 changes to the sideboard and failed to give credit until he got called out on it.

twndomn
03-30-2017, 04:51 PM
Yea if BBD wants to jam a mentor turn 3 and spout things like "now that's what I call control" then good for him, that's not how entreat-predict builds are played. Also AFAIK if anything from reddit is true he was given a decklist from some legacy podcast people (brainstorm show I think?), made 2 changes to the sideboard and failed to give credit until he got called out on it.

We're discussing Mentor Miracles and/or Miracles as a whole. The focus and the arguments are on the decks. BBD as a person and his behavior are totally different issues, sounds like a derailing discussion to me.

The "Jam a mentor turn 3" sounds like an oversimplification. When you are committing 3~4 Mentors with 0 Entreat, Entreat is the elephant of the room, or the lack thereof. This has to be addressed. I'm not saying I favor one approach or another, but we have to clarify and give explanation, not every Miracles pilots is on the same page.

Hanni
03-30-2017, 04:59 PM
I think it is simply two different but valid approaches. Playing draw-go with Predict and Entreat is just as legitimate as playing a more proactive midrange approach with Mentor, IMO.

I do, however, feel that the two versions are distinctly different decks that differ enough strategically to warrant the two separate threads.

klaus
03-30-2017, 05:12 PM
@B88:
I guess you should mention that your 3 STP//4 Terminus split is a meta call. Depending on the amount of Swarm Aggro 4 STP//3 Terminus might be the correct call - even more so, since STP triggers MM and is a sweet SCM target.

B88
03-31-2017, 10:07 AM
@B88:
I guess you should mention that your 3 STP//4 Terminus split is a meta call. Depending on the amount of Swarm Aggro 4 STP//3 Terminus might be the correct call - even more so, since STP triggers MM and is a sweet SCM target.

well i would play the 4th Swords instead of Pyro but i would never cut Terminus because if you want it, does mean that you can't deal with all those creatures. Notably sometimes you can cast your Mentor and wait until your opponent deploy more creatures and than sweep them all with terminus. :tongue:

B88
04-03-2017, 11:06 AM
Another tournament another Top! :tongue:

44 players

T1 Bant Deathblade 2-1

T2 Maverick 2-0

T3 Miracle 2-0

T4 Burn 0-2

T5 Aluren 2-0

T6 ID

Top8
Infect 2-0

easy split :cool:

with this tournament is the 5th tournament in raw that i reach the Top8. The 60 maideck cards were the same, just need to check some sb options

B88
07-24-2017, 05:12 AM
new updates dude!!!!

Hrothgar
07-25-2017, 03:49 PM
Thank you so much for this update Claudio!
I've test for one month this one:

// UWB Mentor

// 60 Mazzo
// 1 Artifact
1 Engineered Explosives

// 7 Creature
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Monastery Mentor

// 20 Instant
1 Unexpectedly Absent
2 Predict
3 Counterspell
3 Daze
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

// 20 Land
1 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
3 Island
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

// 10 Sorcery
3 Portent
3 Terminus
4 Ponder


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Creature
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique

// 7 Instant
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Hydroblast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

// 5 Sorcery
SB: 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge


And, for sure, is strong vs combo.
I suffer Leovold anyway..because only 3 Terminus sometimes are not in top at the right moment.
For now, with 2 Jace, I'm very solid because of some decks like Moon Stompy and Eldrazi are relevant presence in my meta and he have so strong topdeck (and Portent on this deck it's so strong)..the win by ultimatum is a good option.

Now I want to follow your advice, trying 1 Jace.

Tel'Lythari
07-25-2017, 11:55 PM
Nice update Claudio! Just curious, given how rampant Grixis Delver is, what's the reason behind 3 StPs instead of 4? I would like to hear more from you :smile:

Hrothgar
07-30-2017, 08:20 PM
Great news!

Johannes Gutbrod 1st place at mkm series in Prague with Mentor Miracles.
Kevin Wagner top 4 at mkm series in Prague with Miracle (lose in semi-finals from Johannes).

Congrats to the players!
Unexpectedly result? :wink:

:laugh:

Repost this from the Miracle topic in Deck to Beat section.
Congrats guys for the great work about the Mentor archetype.
This result give no doubt.

Super top!

beta
07-30-2017, 10:53 PM
Thanks Claudio and congrats to Johannes who created and won with this list at the MKM!

I understand the point you are trying to raise about have dazes maindeck. Would like to ask how liberal are you guys casting it? Will you cast as and when there is a chance to? or you guys tend to use it more to counter key spells.

E.g. You are on the play, lay land, ponder pass turn with daze in hand. How often will you daze a turn one spell from your opponent? Exploration, yes. What about a delver deck playing a turn one ponder? Can we afford to get timewalk-ed by a delver deck which plays so well in the early few turns? The downside is that if you dont daze the ponder, the daze in your hand might get incrementally worse. Appreciate your advice!

B88
07-31-2017, 03:57 AM
Nice update Claudio! Just curious, given how rampant Grixis Delver is, what's the reason behind 3 StPs instead of 4? I would like to hear more from you :smile:

well StP has been always great, but in a field with Leovold, strix, Nemesi and YPyro, StP make 1x2 or is useless. I prefer terminus instead the 4th sword since can handle all creatures and create card advantage!


@beta: hi man! so, Daze is the most skilled cards here, since as you say, sometimes might be worst for you than your opponent. there isn't any rule for when you should play or not. it depends from many things, like the MU, the state of the game, your cards in hand and so on. btw for my experience Daze has been great even in the late game when you opponent suppose that you might shuffle it or just don't have it. against delver decks is usually really strong, since allow you to force your spell witha free counter backup. i suggest you to read my primer where i explain how it works! :tongue:

B88
08-01-2017, 05:20 AM
here some really beautiful mirror mu where Johannes shows how good is! :cool:

http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/2017/07/31/semifinal-video-johannes-gutbrod-vs-kevin-wagner/

beta
08-01-2017, 05:40 AM
well StP has been always great, but in a field with Leovold, strix, Nemesi and YPyro, StP make 1x2 or is useless. I prefer terminus instead the 4th sword since can handle all creatures and create card advantage!


@beta: hi man! so, Daze is the most skilled cards here, since as you say, sometimes might be worst for you than your opponent. there isn't any rule for when you should play or not. it depends from many things, like the MU, the state of the game, your cards in hand and so on. btw for my experience Daze has been great even in the late game when you opponent suppose that you might shuffle it or just don't have it. against delver decks is usually really strong, since allow you to force your spell witha free counter backup. i suggest you to read my primer where i explain how it works! :tongue:

Thanks for the advice Claudio! I gave your primer a read, very good write-up. I would assume the sideboarding guide on the first page still stands cause when i read about the mirror, you mentioned counterbalance ;p.

I am having some problems against jund and lands. What is your general strategy against these decks? Thanks!

B88
08-01-2017, 08:30 AM
Thanks for the advice Claudio! I gave your primer a read, very good write-up. I would assume the sideboarding guide on the first page still stands cause when i read about the mirror, you mentioned counterbalance ;p.

I am having some problems against jund and lands. What is your general strategy against these decks? Thanks!

Well against jund is quite tough since pfire but mentor and daze helps! smash mantor as soon as you can, also Moon post board can get you the game. i usully board out fow for ee, pyroclasm and flusters.

against land is differnt, here we are in good shape. surgicals and moond + wear can handle the board state (here cut daze and 1mentor)

Kobal
08-02-2017, 04:03 AM
Since Johannes Gutbrod in the interview after his MKM win in Prague mentions that Blood Moon is particular strong in (some of) the harder matchups, have you considered moving it to the maindeck?

Also, what are your thoughts on Council's Judgment? Yes, it is on the clunky side, but it also is a very clean solution to a lot of otherwise very problematic cards (Leovold, TNN, planeswalkers, Chalice, ...)

B88
08-02-2017, 05:57 AM
Since Johannes Gutbrod in the interview after his MKM win in Prague mentions that Blood Moon is particular strong in (some of) the harder matchups, have you considered moving it to the maindeck?

Also, what are your thoughts on Council's Judgment? Yes, it is on the clunky side, but it also is a very clean solution to a lot of otherwise very problematic cards (Leovold, TNN, planeswalkers, Chalice, ...)

- about Moon: yeah i thought on it, but is quite situational card, for example if you are against tempo deck and he has Delver + other stuff on board your Moon can't do that much. You have to play it wisely and against the right mu.

- i don't really like Council since is a sorcery and need WW for works. here you have only mentor and jace as sorcery speed, but they are just far better than that cluncky card. If you want really play a card which can do something similar i suggest you EE or Absent :smile:

Drzed
08-02-2017, 09:09 AM
Before seeing the list you and Johannes build I was testing the old one in the primer but with a maindeck Abrade. The lack of enchant in the format is doing the card a favour as it does pretty much the same job as EE but u can flashback it with snap and it's a bit less clunky; this coupled with the fact that 3 damage right now is pretty much a removal on everything relevant while doing the 4th swords impression. The downside is that it has less potential of 2x1 the opponent and you are forced to get volc//mountain on turn 2 if you want to cast it (it probably the biggest flow of the card in this deck). However it's amazing against vial decks (and stoneblade in general) and Vs any deck with main deck artifact taxing or high CMC artifact spells. I suggest you give the card a spin cause i've been really impressed. [emoji3]
Also great to see my favourite deck coming back after the ban.


Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

B88
08-03-2017, 09:17 AM
Primer udate!!!! :cool:

Hrothgar
08-03-2017, 12:53 PM
Interesting update Claudio, thanks.
I've seen you have increase the numbers of Portent/Predict (and talk about this).
Very good.

After this, I'm not sure about some matchups side choices:

- Czech Pile (also named 4c Control Leovold)

Your advice about this matchup is:




4c Control: Slightly Favorable - Terminus is our best friend here since Swords is quite often a 1x2 against Leovold, Strix or Snapcaster. Post board you should treat it as a control so take out almost all Swords.

Bring in: 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 2 Blood Moon, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Wear//Tear
Out: 4 Force of Will, 1 Mentor, 3 Swords

But right now, no competitive lists of 4c running into 75 enchantment and artifact (excluding Strix) and many of his creature have toughness 1/2 (4 Deathrite Shaman, 4 Snapcaster Mage, 3/4 Baleful Strix)
So, why do not side in Pyroclasm?
After this, I have try Blood Moon vs 4c and imho is very good. But we don't want Deathrite Shaman in board, is not right to bring 1/2 Swords to plowshares vs Shamans and Tasigur/Gurmag?

Another question about Surgical Extraction.
Is not correct to include Surgical vs 4 Snapcaster decks?
In this matchup our opponent want to build advantage with 2x1 and a Flashbacked Pyroblast (3x in his deck) or Kolaghan Command give it a lot of advantage.
Can you give us your thoughts about this?
Thanks!


- Delver

Your advice about:



Delver Decks: Favorable - It's usually an easy MU since they are not able to deal with all our threats like Balance or Mentor. Post-board is the same, even more if we run Blood Moon. Don't forget to keep Daze, even on the draw since you need to fight in the early game.

Bring in: 2 Pyroblast, 2 Blood Moon, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Wear//Tear
Out: 4 Force of Will, 1 Counterspell, 1 Jace, 1 Mentor


Again: no Pyroclasm vs Delver deck.
The most common Delver deck today is Grixis: I suppose you talk of it.
All Grixis run 4 Delver, 4 Deathrite, 2/4 Pyromancer.
Vs this decks bringing in Pyroclasm give us good 2x1 (or plus if he have Elemental tokens).
In add to this: Pyroclasm is not a blue spell and can't be Pyroblasted.
I like to bring in Pyroclasm (and sometimes Engineered, but i'm not sure about this), is not correct? Why?

Thank you so much!
Happy and very satisfied with this deck!

mike1987
08-13-2017, 10:32 AM
Hey Claudio, do you or Johannes streams online? Figured we can learn a lot by watching you guys play.

B88
08-16-2017, 09:32 AM
Hey Claudio, do you or Johannes streams online? Figured we can learn a lot by watching you guys play.

hi dude i'll i think in September!

RankaLee
08-22-2017, 10:17 PM
Ive recently swapped over to the mentor daze MB build from the UA build and I can deff say that it feels much more proactive and alot of the times ppl dont want you to uptap with mentor so they have to play off curve. and now that your playing daze aswell they have to maybe leave up 2 mana. so far that is what it feels like but ive only been playing at LGS and FNM and never went to time. XD since DNT and Grixis Delver has been top meta/DTB has anyone thought about running teferi's response ?
I didnt know there are 2 threads for miracles now =P

B88
11-12-2017, 04:38 PM
Ive recently swapped over to the mentor daze MB build from the UA build and I can deff say that it feels much more proactive and alot of the times ppl dont want you to uptap with mentor so they have to play off curve. and now that your playing daze aswell they have to maybe leave up 2 mana. so far that is what it feels like but ive only been playing at LGS and FNM and never went to time. XD since DNT and Grixis Delver has been top meta/DTB has anyone thought about running teferi's response ?
I didnt know there are 2 threads for miracles now =P

well dude the card is really cool but imho too random atm! :tongue:

B88
11-22-2017, 03:35 PM
hi everyone!

me and my teammate we were to a 122 legacy tournament last week!
i end up to 5-2 (i had to play last round since my rating was bad and i lost) take a look to the video coverage: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/202594956

and he went 5-1-1 and was out from rating too :frown:


btw we were playing the same 75 like this:
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Monastery Mentor

// 20 Instant
4 Brainstorm
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
3 Daze
3 Predict

// 20 Land
4 Island
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
1 Plains
2 Arid Mesa
3 Volcanic Island

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

// 11 Sorcery
4 Ponder
4 Portent
3 Terminus


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus

// 4 Creature
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist

// 8 Instant
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Wear // Tear

// 1 Sorcery
SB: 1 Pyroclasm


anyway we have also a good new for every one who enjoy Legacy, since is now online our website!!
https://www.woodedteam.com/

kingtk3
01-18-2018, 04:39 AM
hi everyone!

me and my teammate we were to a 122 legacy tournament last week!
i end up to 5-2 (i had to play last round since my rating was bad and i lost) take a look to the video coverage: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/202594956

and he went 5-1-1 and was out from rating too :frown:


btw we were playing the same 75 like this:
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Monastery Mentor

// 20 Instant
4 Brainstorm
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
3 Daze
3 Predict

// 20 Land
4 Island
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
1 Plains
2 Arid Mesa
3 Volcanic Island

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

// 11 Sorcery
4 Ponder
4 Portent
3 Terminus


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus

// 4 Creature
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist

// 8 Instant
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Wear // Tear

// 1 Sorcery
SB: 1 Pyroclasm


anyway we have also a good new for every one who enjoy Legacy, since is now online our website!!
https://www.woodedteam.com/

Hi Claudio,
are you still on this list? If so
are only 3 Terminus because of the high number of combo decks?
In the side is relic instead of surgical for the 4c control MU (to battle anglers, DRS and snaps)? I like the sinergy between snapcaster and surgical...
Why no more blood moon in the side? I think is one of our best cards to bring in against grixis-bug-4c

Thanks!

t3hmyth
01-31-2018, 08:56 PM
Hi Claudio,
are you still on this list? If so
are only 3 Terminus because of the high number of combo decks?
In the side is relic instead of surgical for the 4c control MU (to battle anglers, DRS and snaps)? I like the sinergy between snapcaster and surgical...
Why no more blood moon in the side? I think is one of our best cards to bring in against grixis-bug-4c

Thanks!

Relic has two features that Surgical doesn't for the Mentor-main gameplan:


Tempo & game plan restriction for the opponent: leading with a Relic creates something that the opponent deliberately has to play around early. For example, it immediately forecloses the Past in Flames plan for ANT. Turns spent waiting add up for a deck that's playing tempo.
Instant-speed draw: this deck wants to win proactively via Mentor, and win the creature war. If Mentor isn't onboard or Terminus is an out, having the ability to draw it (or cycle for a random card) is useful

Surgical + Snapcaster plays differently because it's for the lockout plan. It's more for conventional Miracles (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31855-DTB-UWx-Miracle-Control/page19) in the DTB.