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Bongo
03-01-2006, 07:46 AM
Introducing SAK


After seeing how easy Threshold won on the back of Nimble Mongoose and Worship against aggro, I tried to develop a G/W aggro deck with Troll Ascetic and Worship as its centerpiece. However, the deck lacked disruption and lost to mass removal and enchantment removal.
Enter the black splash. Cabal Therapy gave the deck a much needed tool to disrupt any form of combo and was also good at preventing mass removal. Dark Confidant was also included to give the deck a way to draw cards. Worship slowly began fading out, as it wasn't that essential to the deck's strategy anymore.
Instead I worked in a life-gain component which sort of obviated the need for Worship. Life-Gain? Yes, the current Legacy metagame is largely focused on dealing that 20th point of damage, and in such an environment life-gain is viable. Life-gain also has synergy with Dark Confidant.
The original idea evolved into the following decklist:



SAK (Swiss Army Knife), as of 30/03/2006


Land 20:
4 Savannah
4 Bayou
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Volraths Stronghold

Mana creatures 8:
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Beats 16:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vinelasher Kudzu
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Anurid Brushhopper

Utility 16:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Umezawas Jitte
4 Vindicate



The deck is very versatile, hence its name SAK. The goal is to power out an early fattie and ride that to victory, while having backup in the form of creature removal, card drawing, recursion, discard and life-gain. An explanation of my choices:


The land base:
Wasteland is at an all-time low, hence not more basics. The dual/fetch configuration should be obvious. No Wasteland here to guarantee access to all three colors.
Volrath's Stronghold is a lategame bomb, as it brings back creatures flashbacked to Therapy, sacrificed Hierarchs, creatures discarded to Brushhopper and generally creatures that die to combat damage or removal. Stronghold can't be countered and is a nightmare for any slow deck. Another strong reason for splashing black.


The mana creatures:
Llanowar Elves are chosen over Birds of Paradise because they get counters when equipped with Jitte. The manabase is strong enough to have access to all three colors. The Elf can also be sacrificed to Therapy. ESG is very good against Threshold, as it lets you circumvent their Daze. ESG also is a way to accelerate out fatties that is not vulnerable like the Elf.


The beats:
Confidant is a bit of an exception here, as it isn't really a beatdown creature. However together with life-gain, it is a draw engine that can double as damage, especially with an active Jitte. Card drawing in a beatdown deck is the nuts, this is the fuel that gets the motor running.
Most decks can't handle Troll Ascetic, especially not when he's equipped with Jitte. This mini-combo alone is a win against aggro-based strategies most of the time and was one of the reasons to fade out Worship.
Anurid Brushhopper is a very underrated card. The magical toughness of 4 lets it survive Mongoose and Bolt without even using the special ability. Just the threat of using the ability can make any player holding mass removal slump in their chair. Swords is also useless, and the ability lets Brushhopper survive any combat if needed.
Although I have switched back to Ravenous Baloth in the past, Loxodon Hierarch has proven itself after extensive testing as the better inclusion. You need the life right now without sacrificing the creature (and losing tempo). The other ability also comes in handy for protecting the smaller creatures against Pyroclasm, Pernicious Deed and similar mass removal.


The utility:
Swords is the best removal in Legacy, as long as there are creatures there will be 4 copies.
Cabal Therapy gives SAK some much needed-disruption. Can be discarded to Brushhopper and be flashed back if you're tight on mana. Multiple Confidants can occasionally become dangerous, and Therapy lets you sacrifice one if that's the case. Better than Duress in this deck.
In looking for the most powerful life-gain cards, Jitte came up pretty quickly. While Gerrards Verdict would have given SAK more disruption and life-gain, I wanted a permanent source of life-gain. Jitte fits the bill and does so many other things well, speeding up the clock and acting as additional removal. The life-gain aspect of Jitte has greater importance here than in other decks running Jitte. Also acts as removal against opposing Jittes.
Vindicate is also a very underrated card. Like Jitte, this is another do-it-all card and fits very well into the concept of SAK. Vindicate makes sure I don't lose to Mongoose/Worship where I was originally coming from and destroys any dangerous permanent that may come up. Originally, this was Parallax Wave, but after some quick testing, I found that Parallax Wave mostly improved matchups that are already positive to begin with, so I swapped them out for Vindicate.


Sideboard options and testing results will follow when I've got more time.

Peter_Rotten
03-01-2006, 03:31 PM
My first concern after scanning the list is the potential life loss of the 4cc cards and Dark Confindant. Has this been a issue in your testing? If you hit two 4cc cards in one game, that could truly hurt.

Next, I was wondering about SB options. You're playing BG, so have you considered P-Deed in the board? Or Putrefy? Or Vindicate for BW?

Dr.ugs
03-01-2006, 04:46 PM
Since Paralax Wave costs 4 Mana(double white investment) and it hits you badly with Confidant and most of your creatures can protect themselves anyway (Troll,Brushopper and Hierarch can also protect your creatures if necessary).I don´t have the opinion that there is enough reason to run it at all.

Instead I would run Vindicate.It is also removal(think of all the critical cards it can hit:Jitte,SoTF,Rift) and it is more usefull than against combo.



Greetings from Columbia :cool:

Jesus
03-01-2006, 10:25 PM
I am unsure as to where you play MTG but in the MetaGame in rochester.. Wasteland is still a well Played card and Does the dirty to the majority of the decks/ Dark Confidant aswell seems to hurt you alot i think ill test this on workstation tonite.

Bongo
03-02-2006, 04:56 AM
I didn't give Vindicate much thought because I was coming more from an AngelStompy direction, where Parallax Wave was brutal.
However, after some quick testing, I found that Parallax Wave mostly improves matchups that are already positive to begin with, so I swapped them out for Vindicate. And boy, 3cc Desert Twisters are good. This switch also helps to ameliorate the Confidant damage a bit.


With the switch to Vindicate, you can't do the Parallax Wave/Loxodon Hierarch stuff anymore. I switched to Ravenous Baloth because of two reasons: One you can sacrifice Brushhopper in a pinch and two, the recursion via Stronghold is two mana cheaper. This is important because the deck is really tight on mana.


I'll edit the changes in the intial post.


I'm open to further suggestions and ideas!

Afro
03-02-2006, 07:28 AM
Is it just me or does this resemble Amazing Results v1.0?

Peter_Rotten
03-02-2006, 08:22 AM
Is it just me or does this resemble Amazing Results v1.0?
I was thinking the same thing, which of course naturally led to a suggestion of replacing ESG with BoP. The deck is three colors and BoP could ease the mana issues. Also, it further lightens Dark Confidant life loss. Bad side? A Jitte wielding BoP ain't too impressive.

Eldariel
03-02-2006, 08:43 AM
I was thinking the same thing, which of course naturally led to a suggestion of replacing ESG with BoP. The deck is three colors and BoP could ease the mana issues. Also, it further lightens Dark Confidant life loss. Bad side? A Jitte wielding BoP ain't too impressive.

Then again, a Jitte-wielding ESG is even more rare, seeing that it practically never gets hardcast...unless you're in a bad-enough creature shortage to want a Grey Ogre, in which case you're really badly off anyways.

bigbear102
03-02-2006, 10:02 AM
Then again, a Jitte-wielding ESG is even more rare, seeing that it practically never gets hardcast...unless you're in a bad-enough creature shortage to want a Grey Ogre, in which case you're really badly off anyways.


Actually I have seen ESG hardcast a lot. Late game it can make the diff, especially with a Jitte, any critter with a Jitte (and power) makes a big difference.

Bongo
03-02-2006, 12:11 PM
I never have heard of Amazing Results, and I built the deck completely on my own. I checked the decklists from the so called "Amazing Results" 1&2, and over half of the deck is different, so I wouldn't say it resembles it.


You don't need Birds in this deck because the mana is rocksolid. Rarely didn't I have the right mana. The fact that Elf gets Jitte counters is really important and can win games.
ESG also allows you to drop turn 2 Troll/Brushhopper without getting disrupted by Swords/Bolt/removal. It's even good as a late-game target for Jitte when the game drags out.


So far, the lifeloss of Confidant hasn't been problematic for me. Clever opponents won't let him live that long anyway. Pernicious Deed is very mana intensive and kills my own Elves, Confidants and Jitte, so it wouldn't be a good idea here. Vindicate is a lot better in that slot.

Zilla
03-02-2006, 04:12 PM
Then again, a Jitte-wielding ESG is even more rare, seeing that it practically never gets hardcast...unless you're in a bad-enough creature shortage to want a Grey Ogre, in which case you're really badly off anyways.
This isn't necessarily true. If this deck plays anything like Zilla Stompy, which I imagine it does in many ways, then you'll find yourself hardcasting ESG all the time. If you have nothing else to do with your mana in the lategame, a 2/2 for 3 mana is better than a 1/1 for 1.

That said, I agree that Fyndhorn Elves or BoP might be the better choice in this deck, partly because they're less damaging with Confidant, but also because they have better synergy with Cabal Therapy in the early game. Just something to consider.

As for the Hierarch vs. Baloth scenario, I'm not sure I'm agreeing with the choice to run Baloth. Hierarch is almost strictly better, in that you gain the life without having to sac him. I understand the thinking that you can sac Baloth and recur him with Stronghold, but honestly - this is an aggro deck. Do you really want to be wasting 2 mana, a draw, and a turn of tempo waiting for summoning sickness to wear off just so you can gain 4 life per turn off the biggest beatstick in your deck? I should think not.

Stronghold makes sense as a way to stay in the long game against control, but lifegain doesn't win you games there. Lifegain wins you games against deck like Burn, that aren't going to be giving you a whole lot of time to recur Baloths against it. All you really need to beat Burn is the one shot boost from a hardcast Hierarch. That in turn buys you the time you need to find another Hierarch, or to cast and equip a Jitte, at which point you're bulletproof. You get all this without having to sacrifice your cloack against them. I think Hierarch is the way to go.

Bongo
03-03-2006, 08:51 AM
Damn it Zilla, you're right again.

Additional testing has shown that Hierarch is in fact better in many aspects, and works very nicely with Confidant. Seems I have to rewrite the first post once more.

The more I play it, the more I like Vindicate. Better than Parallax Wave in this deck, honestly.

------------------------------------


As for the ESG thing: I would never cut those. If you play SAK, you'll truly appreciate how versatile they are both in the earlygame and in the lategame. Against decks that are light on removal, first turn Confidant is amazing. Even the occassional turn2 Hierarch is pretty busted. In a War of Attrition, the fact that they can be equipped equipped and don't die to 1/1s is huge. All this is not possible with Birds.


Sideboarding info will come next week. Although I have a pretty good idea what I'll board for the various matchups, I'm interested to hear some creative ideas. Maybe I've overseen something, who knows.

Bane of the Living
03-03-2006, 09:13 AM
I dont see how Lox + Confidant is suppose to be that good. Its basically like your just getting the 4/4 for 4 mana. I see how things could start to role with stronghold but have you come close to death against aggro because of bob?

Bongo
03-06-2006, 07:01 PM
@bane: I never had problems with Confidant against aggro. Rather, aggro has problems if they don't deal with Confidant.


And now for the matchups. Instead of percentages, I use this scale:

1.very favorable
2.favorable
3.even
4.unfavorable
5.very unfavorable

I'll describe the general outline of a matchup and what to board. Metagame considerations are always important, so the numbers of the sideboard cards should change accordingly to the expected decks. First, I tackle the decks in the LMF, and then take a look at other more popular decks.

----------------------------------------------------

Threshold:

Very favorable, postboard very favorable

Thresh has huge problems against this deck. Generally speaking; your threats are bigger and hard to remove, Jitte forces them to find a Needle or lose, Confidant needs immediate attention and ESG nullifies Daze.

The white splash has only Swords to remove Confidant. If Confidant sticks, the card advantage overwhelms them. Worship gets taken care of by Vindicate and Swords should be kept back for Enforcer, but thats about the only thing you have to be aware of.
The red splash can kill Confidant and Elf better, but still fights an uphill battle as the removal can't kill the other creatures. You don't need to worry about Worship, and Fledgling Dragon can be taken care of by Vindicate, unlike Enforcer.
Volrath's Stronghold is a beast in the lategame and gives you countered creatures back.
I don't devote specific sideboard space to this matchup because it is already very good, but if there is a lot Thresh in your meta, I would cut off their mana production so they are completely helpless. Tormods Crypt are only a speed bump and can be needled, but Crypt are good against other decks as well, so you might want to bring them in.

Recommended card: Choke (or Tormods Crypt)

----------------------------------------------------

Rifter:

Very favorable, postboard very favorable

Vindicate destroys Humility and Rift, Therapy slows them down massively, Swords removes Eternal Dragon, Brushhopper evades even Wrath of God/Vengeance and Volrath's Stronghold brings back the killed creatures. Unless Humility comes and stays down, you'll win. I didn't test much against Rifter, but I don't think the outcome will change significantly.
The weakness of Rifter is their mana, so blowing up all their lands is the final nail in the coffin. Many builds don't pack Sacred Ground, and even then you can destroy it with Vindicate.
It is also entirely possible to not devote any space to this matchup.

Recommended card: Armageddon

----------------------------------------------------

Goblins:

Favorable, postboard very favorable

Again, most of your threats are bigger and are very hard to remove. Ascetic plus Jitte is an instant win. Llanowar blocks and kills an early Lackey, as does Swords. I would have rated this very favorable were it not for the fact that Wasteland coupled with Lackey/Vial can give Goblins enough tempo to steal some wins. Versions with Port are bordering on Even. If Vial Goblins starts slow or mana denial isn't sufficient, you win though.
Postboard is close to a bye against mono-red. Against the white splash, you can clear the coast with Therapy for Disenchant and sit back as they only can play with half of their Goblins.
There is also the option to run Silver Knight, which is a beating against Zilla Stompy and multicolor aggro as well. It is an excellent target for Jitte and brings Goblin attacks to a halt. This is similar to the Crypt situation in Threshold.

Recommended card: Engineered Plague (or Silver Knight)

----------------------------------------------------

Deadguy Ale:

Even, postboard very favorable

Early land-destruction is harsh and will be the main reason you lose. However, once the fat beaters and Jitte are in play, the game is mostly over. If you have good mana, the odds are in your favor. Confidant is very good here as it allows you to quickly refill after the initial discard attack. You also tend to topdeck well. Swords and Vindicate should take out Confidant and early Hypnotic Specter.
Postboard, Troll is not indestructible because of Perish, but at least Brushhopper survives. It is best to add additional card drawing that can come down on turn 1.

Recommended card: Compost

----------------------------------------------------

Solidarity:

Very unfavorable, postboard unfavorable

The bad news: Unless you got Therapy in your opening hand, game 1 is a loss. The good news: It is essentially non-existent.
Early hand-destruction is at a premium here, so Duress is an obvious choice. If you happen to run Armageddon, it gets better as you can slow them down enough to get Armageddon online.

Recommended card: Duress (and Armageddon)

----------------------------------------------------

Burn:

Very favorable, postboard very favorable

Burn hates lifegain. Jitte and Hierarch are the gamewinners here, so the speed in which you get these on the table is the deciding factor. ESG helps here because it is acceleration that can't be burned. Therapy will delay their fundamental turn, especially with Flashback. In a pinch, you can also Sword your own creatures. It is better to discard Confidant to Brushopper here.
You don't need to board against Burn unless you're in a sea of burn decks. In such a case, it is enjoyable to demonstrate the power of lifegain.

Recommended card: Warmth

----------------------------------------------------

Multicolor aggro

Favorable, postboard very favorable

Not that easy to say, because there are so many variations within the archetype. They all scoop to Ascetic and Jitte though. Hierarch is also very strong here. Versions not packing Wastelands are very favorable. Once you survive the earlygame you should win, Swords help a lot here. Opposing Jittes should be taken out with Vindicate, or your own.
With the exception of Swords, all the removal is red-based, so an early blocker that is immune turns the matchup into very favorable.

Recommended card: Silver Knight

----------------------------------------------------

Zilla Stompy

Favorable, post board very favorable

I didn't test that much against it, but I think the early results are a good indicator. It comes down to Jitte dominance, and you have better odds because of Vindicate game 1. You are the control here, as you have inevitability, especially with Stronghold. Swords is nice for making two for one trades with Rancor. Their direct damage can only take out the little creatures, while yours can destroy all of them, so you're favored here.
Anarchy game 2 is the only thing you need to be aware of. Other than that, you might wanna run a creature that invalidates half of their deck.

Recommended sideboard card: Silver Knight

-------------------------------------------------------------


Conclusion

Reading the analysis above, it might seem that the deck beats everything, which it doesn't. Any form of Combo is very unfavorable game 1, so you're pretty much forced to run 4 Duress in your sideboard. The other weakness of the deck is mana-denial, as it is very mana intensive and runs three colors.

Now for the positive points: The deck does very well against randomness, especially if it contains creatures. It has very good matchups against most of the top tier. It has very good sideboard options available.
In summary, I would say that SAK is a very good choice in most metagames.

Bongo
03-14-2006, 04:12 AM
SAK Playguide:

Although SAK is one of the easier decks to play, there are still some important decisions to make. I'll lay out some of the more common plays.


First turn plays:

1. Llanowar Elf
2. Cabal Therapy
3. Swords
4. ESG + Confidant
5. ESG + Jitte

When playing first, I usually go with Elf. However, if you know what you're playing against, Cabal Therapy is very good, especially against combo. Swords is mostly used for first turn Hypnotic Specter or Goblin Lackey when going second.
ESG + Confidant is a very good play when facing Deadguy Ale (or removal-light decks), as it forces them to have the Swords. I would be careful to do this against decks using Force of Will, though. The card loss is the same on both sides, but against decks packing Force, Confidant is usually a threat you want to resolve. I very rarely do ESG+Jitte, this is mostly for discard protection against Deadguy Ale.


Second turn plays:

1. Confidant
2. Jitte
3. Troll Ascetic
4. Anurid Brushhopper
5. Vindicate
6. ESG + Loxodon Hierarch

Keep in mind that there are lots of other plays here. Number 3-6 require you to have either an Elf or an ESG. When you don't have acceleration, it is best to play Confidant, as it is preferrable to cast and equip Jitte in the same turn for surprise factor and less exposure to removal.
If you have acceleration, things get interesting. Troll Ascetic is mostly the right play, except when you need a blocker against Goblins, suspect Pyroclasm or a Silver Knight is on the other side. In these cases Brushhopper is better, as it kills and survives every one of these cases. Brushhopper is also preferrable against Rifter because of Wrath of God.
Vindicate is mostly hold back for eventual emergencies, but can be cast when facing an early troublesome permanent.
The last play is very good when facing burn or weenie aggro. Hierarch blocks and kills almost every creature and takes multiple spells to remove, except for Swords. In that case, you gain 8 life, which is a lot and usually translates into a Time Walk.


From turn 2 on, there are too many plays to cover here. Just keep in mind not to overextend. A beater + Jitte is usually enough. This is especially true in matchups where mass-removal plays a role. Not overextending also has the bonus of holding back cards for Brushhopper.
Also don't crack fetches when not absolutely needed. This is important against Wasteland, which is one of the decks greatest enemies.

Bongo
03-25-2006, 04:54 AM
Though I have written a sideboard guide, I recommend the following sideboard when going into an unknown metagame:

4 Duress
4 Tormods Crypt
4 Silver Knight
3 Naturalize


SAK has done well in testing, it has good matchups against most decks in the LMF and creams randomness. As you can see from the streamlined decklist, it is very consistent. If you mulligan correctly, there shouldn't be any consistency issues.


Are there any points I could improve upon?
What do you think of SAK?

Zilla
03-26-2006, 04:21 AM
Bongo, I tested the a deck a bit earlier tonight. Overall, I like the feel of the deck... it plays like Zilla Stompy with more control elements. I like. I did feel the mana production was a little inconsistent at times, however. I mentioned it briefly earlier in this thread, but I want to reiterate the suggestion that you try Birds of Paradise in the ESG slot. I haven't tested it myself, but I think it's the right call for the following reasons:

1. It helps color consitency.
2. It has better synergy with Confidant.
3. It's another way to flashback Therapy in the early game with almost no tempo loss.

That it can't be equipped with Jitte is unfortunate, but I think its advantages outweigh its drawbacks.

Peter_Rotten
03-26-2006, 07:21 AM
That it can't be equipped with Jitte is unfortunate, but I think its advantages outweigh its drawbacks.

If the switch to BoP was made, and you worry about Jitte dis-synergy, then maybe you could consider switching over to 2 SoFI/ 2 Jitte. What SoFI lacks in board control, it may make up for with draw.

Tao
03-26-2006, 07:59 AM
his deck is really similar to my 1st Cang deck, especially if you play Birds and Sword of Fire and Ice.
.
.
.
http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3256

If you do, play more fetchlands instead of Dualz and try out Vinelasher Kudzu, in the Hierarch or Hopper slot. Plz try it before sticking to Hierarch or Hopper. Kudzu is absolutely insane on Turn 1 (with ESG) or on turn 2 before dropping fetchland (with Birds). And with your low mana curve you can hold back lands, so it does not get bad in the lategame.

Bongo
03-26-2006, 03:12 PM
Thanks for the replies.


Concerning the switch from ESG to Birds:

In the original version, I had Birds for a short time, but they were swapped for ESG, and I haven't looked back. Zilla's points about Birds are accurate, especially the point about early Therapy flashbacks.

But by switching to Birds, the matchup against UGR Gro and any deck packing burn gets worse. ESG is very important as it gives you a mana-boost in the early-game that is not susceptible to burn and removal, and can nullify Daze (this is another reason for the very good matchup against Gro). Fire/Ice would become a huge problem, taking out early mana in a 2 for 1 trade.

Granted, ESG doesn't give permanent mana, but after turn 4, it doesn't make such a big difference anyway. The early mana-boost is the important thing here, first turn Confidant or guaranteed second turn Trolls and Brushhoppers are huge.
The fact that Birds are useless with Jitte is also a real disadvantage. ESG is a lot better in the lategame, gets Jitte counters and doesn't die to 1/1s.

The fact that you lose less life with Confidant doesn't matter most of the time. As I have learned by playing Necro, only the last lifepoint is the one that really counts. Against decks like Burn where the life-total is a factor, you don't play Confidant. Also, Jitte and Hierarch recoup the lost life nicely.
Confidant also has a really short life-span, as most opponents tend to take him out immediately. So you don't have to worry that much about the life-loss.

I tweaked the manabase a little, including a few more fetches, which should up the mana-consistency, so the remaining point is the early Therapy flashback. Here, Birds are definitely better, but I don't think that it's worth switching back to Birds.

--------------------

Although SoFI is a very good card, it is excluded in SAK for the same reasons as in Zilla Stompy 2K6. The additional mana makes a huge difference. Jitte can often be played a turn earlier and it is also a lot easier to play and equip it on the same turn. SoFI often kicks in a full turn later than Jitte. Jitte also triggers without having to deal damage to the opponent, which is important involving creature combat.

---------------------

While the Vinelasher Kudzu suggestion is a good one, it requires you to build your deck around it (at least 8 Fetchlands). Kudzu is nice, but it doesn't have synergy with the rest of the deck, unlike Brushhopper and Hierarch. Pernicious Deed loses a lot of its punch against SAK, and Vinelasher Kudzu would weaken that spot. I also don't see how Kudzu improves any matchup.

---------------------

Now for the tweaked manabase mentioned earlier:

4 Savannah
4 Bayou
2 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Volraths Stronghold


Scrubland was the weakest Dual, and the additional two fetches help to smooth out the mana even more. It also helps to fight Wasteland better.

Let me know what you think about the new manabase.

Bongo
03-30-2006, 02:44 AM
I'm testing a pretty drastic change to the deck right now.


While Loxodon Hierarch is by no means bad, it has been the weakest card in the deck. A 4cc fattie is fine, but when all you can get is 4/4 and 4 life in the best case, it seems a little weak for the mana investment.
Loxodon was also sitting in my hand quite a few times and couldn't impact the game early enough. It was often discarded to Brushhopper.

So I tested Mystic Enforcer as a bigger fattie, but that idea was quickly discarded because SAK takes a long time till it reaches Threshold.
Iwamori was fine, and can be run. However, Iwamori doesn't have substantial synergy with the deck, and has the same problems as Loxodon.


I wanted a big creature that can impact the board earlier and I think I have found that in Watchwolf.
There are no 1-mana creatures that are bigger than 2/2 in GWB, and the 3-mana slot is already crowded with Ascetic, Brushhopper and Vindicate.

Watchwolf is big, comes down as early as turn 1 with ESG and takes down any 2/2s by itself. The fact that Confidant damage gets reduced is also to be noted, as the deck now tops out at 3 mana, instead of previously 4.
Watchwolf makes SAK run a lot smoother, and speeds up the clock.

First, I looked at Silver Knight, which is very good against Goblins and red-based aggro, but worse against anything else, especially Threshold. If your meta contains a lot of red decks, I would recommend Silver Knight however, the deck can support WW on the second turn.


What do you think about the inclusion of Watchwolf over Loxodon Hierarch?

Bongo
03-30-2006, 04:03 PM
I think I've got the final SAK version.


After tuning the manabase some more, I decided it was ok to cut the Scrublands completely. This allowed me to squeeze in the full 8 Fetchlands to give the deck access to the right mana and make the deck a lot less susceptible to Wasteland.


While Watchwolf was good in limited goldfishing and two-fisted testing, I have found a better creature: Vinelasher Kudzu.
With the new manabase, it often outgrows Watchwolf and is the biggest creature in the lategame. Watchwolf was only better when immediately blocking after being cast.
I dismissed Kudzu before, but that was before changing the manabase, which makes quite a difference.


SAK (Swiss Army Knife), as of 30/03/2006


Land 20:
4 Savannah
4 Bayou
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Volraths Stronghold

Mana creatures 8:
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Beats 16:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vinelasher Kudzu
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Anurid Brushhopper

Utility 16:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Umezawas Jitte
4 Vindicate

Mana-curve:
1cc: 12
2cc: 12
3cc: 12 (16)

Sample Sideboard (also check out the sideboard guide):
4 Duress
4 Tormods Crypt
2 Engineered Plague
2 Compost
3 Naturalize/Pithing Needle


The dynamics of the matchups changed a bit, and I think I'll post new insights even when the contest is over, as SAK is really a blast to play.

MonkeY
03-30-2006, 05:51 PM
The dynamics of the matchups changed a bit, and I think I'll post new insights even when the contest is over, as SAK is really a blast to play.

Could we here them now possibly?

Bongo
03-31-2006, 11:47 AM
I can't make any conclusive statements about the matchups with the new build yet, but so far I've got a general feel for it (although this comes from very very limited testing).


1. Any non-burn matchup gets better.

This is simply for the fact that Vinelasher Kudzu comes down faster than Loxodon since it costs only half as much. It will also outgrow most creatures if left unchecked.


2. Burn is annoying.

Theoretically speaking, the Burn matchup gets worse because there are only 4 life-gain cards in the deck, compared to 8 previously.
Kudzu is vulnerable to Burn after being cast. This is relevant against every deck packing direct damage. However, the burn has to take out Kudzu immediately, otherwise it'll grow out of burn range.
In that point, it is very similar to Confidant, which also gets more dangerous the longer it's on the board.

Bongo
04-20-2006, 04:11 PM
I'm honored that SAK has made it into the final round of the contest. Thanks to all who contributed.


The inclusion of Vinelasher Kudzu has changed the way SAK plays out. In this section, I'm going to comment on the new dynamics.

------------------------

Before I get to this, let me say a few words though. SAK is a deck that really rewards play-skill. This starts at naming the correct cards with Therapy, Vindicating at the right moment and playing your lands correctly.
Because of the enormous versatility of the deck and the gains you can make through your play-skill, I feel there are very few truly bad matchups. I rarely had the impression that a particular game was completely unwinnable.

------------------------

1) The new manabase is one of the most important improvements. 8 Fetchlands really minimize the effect of Wasteland, while providing you with the appropriate mana.

Vinelasher Kudzu had a positive effect on the manabase. It encourages you to hold excess land in your hand and crack fetches only when you absolutely need it, in case you topdeck another Kudzu. You can also lead bad opponents with direct damage into mistakes.
All this is possible because you can effectively operate with 4-5 mana. The version with Loxodon Hierarch was a lot more manahungry and forced you to play land in order to cast Hierarch (and also crack fetches). Kudzu really smoothes out the manacurve and allows you to drop threats every turn.
Another positive effect of holding back lands for Kudzu was the synergy with Anurid Brushhopper, which also encourages you to keep back excess land.


2) The Deadguy matchup improved significantly. This is for two reasons: a more resistant manabase and quicker threats.
Fetches weaken both Wasteland and Sinkhole, allowing you to keep your mana on the table which is crucial.
Hierarch was mostly just sitting in my hand in this matchup, but not so with Kudzu. It is easier to put it into play (evading Hymn) and forces the Deadguy player to immediately react to it. Otherwise, it'll grow too big to handle. Simple stuff like:

1st turn: land, ESG, Kudzu
2nd turn: land, Confidant

can really have Deadguy backpedaling and is fast enough to matter.


3) Goblins are also easier to handle with the new build. Waste+Port aren't that dangerous anymore, improving your chances to get the 3cc stuff online. Kudzu also provides another blocker for Lackey when on the play, upping the potential answers for first turn Lackey to 16.
You have to be careful to not blindly walk Kudzu into a Mogg Fanatic though. If you manage to keep Kudzu on the table for a few turns, you have a good chance of winning the game. Goblins don't like fatties.


4) UGW Threshold also gets slightly better. Like Confidant, Kudzu is another threat that needs to be handled immediately, because it quickly outgrows threshed Mongoose and Werebear. There also were situations where Kudzu was bigger than an Enforcer.


I'm interested in the results the judges found. What were your observations and testing results?

Lego
04-20-2006, 05:33 PM
There are no 1-mana creatures that are bigger than 2/2 in GWB

Well, except for Circling Voltures or Kjeldoran Dead or Rogue Elephant, but we know what you mean.

Tao
04-20-2006, 06:42 PM
I have some experience with a very similar deck - especially after adding Kuszus this is really close to my Cang entry Lasher. I took the white cards from your deck and they really improved the deck. Anyway, your deck's name is better and I think it is not productive to have 2 threads about a similar deck. Therefore I stop working on my thread. Here are some ideas from what I experienced. Maybe you can give some of them a try.


- 4 Llanowar Elves
- 4 Anurid Brushhopper
- 1 Umezawa's Jitte
- 1 Kudzu
+ 4 Birds of Paradise
+ 4 Call of the Herd
+ 2 Sword of Fire and Ice

- Birds are better than Llanowar Elves in a 3-color deck
- Call of the Herd is a great card in such a deck. Right now the only source of Card Advantage are Confidants, Call will be a really strong threat. It is really good against every deck in the current Meta and it has synergy with Cabal Therapy.
- I split between Sword of Fire and Ice and Jitte. Right now I play 3 Jitte and 2 Sword. Because of Gro playing MD Needles and Jitte being Legendary I would struggle to play 4 of them. In Zilla Stompy this may be okay, but this deck is a slower and therefore plays longer games, so it is more likely to draw dead Jittes.

Bongo
04-21-2006, 08:58 AM
Thanks for your suggestions.
This is not meant offensive, but I disagree with all of them.



- Birds are better than Llanowar Elves in a 3-color deck

Generalizations like this are counterproductive. In the case of SAK, Birds are not better for two major reasons: one, they are bad Jitte targets and two, they don't kill Lackey, Confidant or any other important 1 toughness creature.
The new manabase basically ensures that you have the right mana, so Birds aren't needed as badly as in other 3 color decks. Volraths Stronghold is the only land that doesn't produce the right mana.



- Call of the Herd is a great card in such a deck. Right now the only source of Card Advantage are Confidants, Call will be a really strong threat. It is really good against every deck in the current Meta and it has synergy with Cabal Therapy.

You suggest replacing Call of the Herd with Anurid Brushhopper, which is a bad idea. Brushhopper is one of the best creatures SAK has, for various reasons. The additional toughness is very important, as it is not killed by Lightning Bolt or 2power Goblin+Fanatic. Brushhopper also kills a threshed Mongoose without dying and is a pain for Rifter, in addition to being immune to Swords.

The problem with Call is that it is very mana-intensive and still fragile, whereas Brushhopper can protect itself without using mana. Call would bump the curve of the deck up, which I have found to be a bad thing and led me to the exclusion of Hierarch. It also forces you to play and crack your fetches immediately, resulting in bad synergy with Kudzu.
Getting your Elephant tokens bolted may net you card advantage, but you lose a lot of tempo as your opponent just pays R, while you are paying 2G/3G, tying up your mana which would better be spent on other things. Finally, I would rather use Elves and spare Kudzus for flashing back Therapy. Paying 2G or 3G for the Flashback is not effective.



- I split between Sword of Fire and Ice and Jitte. Right now I play 3 Jitte and 2 Sword. Because of Gro playing MD Needles and Jitte being Legendary I would struggle to play 4 of them. In Zilla Stompy this may be okay, but this deck is a slower and therefore plays longer games, so it is more likely to draw dead Jittes.

The one-mana difference between SoFI and Jitte is important for the mana-curve. Jitte also gets active a full turn faster than SoFI. The life-gain aspect of Jitte is also of greater importance than the shock/draw aspect of SoFI in this deck, since you'll lose quite a lot of life to Confidant and fetchlands. You also get counters on Jitte when blocking. MD Needles are annoying, but can be handled by Vindicate. Game 2, you either bring in Naturalize or take Jitte out completely for better solutions (Choke is very good against Threshold) and to make your opponent hold suboptimal cards.
I've never been disappointed with four copies, you want to see them early and often. Most opponents tend to take out Jitte immediately, and it is nice to have another one to follow up.

----------------------------

I'm interested in the results the judges found. What were your observations and testing results?

Bongo
04-25-2006, 06:50 PM
So like, did anyone else test SAK?

Since the deck made it into the final round, the judges must have tested this. What were your observations?


A side note: The multicolor aggro matchup has also improved with the new version. Wasteland is a lot easier to handle with fetchlands, and Kudzu is an early blocker/late threat. Burn can get rid of Kudzu, but that's less mana for the opponent to cast additional threats and one less burn-spell for the other creatures. I'd rather have a burnable roadblock than none. Hierarch was good here, but I always found it too slow without ESG or Elf and often came into play when it was already too late.

However, I couldn't test against Ewok Zoo yet. Send me a PM for testing!

Rastadon
04-25-2006, 10:10 PM
If you can afford the tempo loss, I think that Sylvan Safekeeper is a strong option for this deck. While you already have psuedo protection from burn with Anruid and Troll, your Kudzu's are the ones that are going to really turn the tide, and they're the ones that need protection. If you can protect Kudzu until it becomes decently sized burn won't be a problem at all.

I'd highly suggest sbing Safekeeper.

Bongo
04-26-2006, 04:40 PM
Actually, Jitte is the card that turns the tide against decks packing burn.

What would you cut for Sylvan Safekeeper?

Rastadon
04-26-2006, 08:28 PM
I don't know, nearly every creature there is a game turner in its own right. I'd say to swap 'em with Llanowar Elves because he doesn't win games, but swapping a mana producer for a mana hog is flat out dangerous. I want to say Confidant because he's the most vulnerable but he gives you cards, so that's a no. I really got no idea what to say, cut one of each of the utility? Unless targeted removal is a real problem I wouldn't suggest adding it since your deck is so streamlined as is.

Bongo
04-30-2006, 05:49 PM
Targeted removal isn't a problem because Troll and Brushhopper are basically immune. The other creatures can be killed, but even then you can recur them via Stronghold.


The maindeck is pretty much set in stone, I'm working on the sideboard right now. When going into an unknown metagame, I would use this:

4 Tormods Crypt
4 Duress
3 Naturalize
2 Pithing Needle
2 Rule of Law

I removed Engineered Plague and Compost because I feel the Goblins and Deadguy matchups are good enough. Rule of Law is sideboarded against combo, but I don't know if that's the optimal choice.
Any advice on sideboard cards I overlooked would be welcome.

kicks_422
06-13-2006, 09:35 AM
I just wanna say that i LOVE this deck... And have continued tweaking it... :D

yeah, MD's rock solid (but I switched Therapy to Duress because I'm playing in unknown metas), and here's the SB I have:

4 Withered Wretch - graveyard hate... and it's also a beater... :D
4 Rule of Law - combo hate
4 Hymn to Tourach - combo hate
3 Circle of Protection: Red - Speedy red has no chance now... :D

I thought of True Believer in the Rule of Law slot because it comes down one turn earlier, but when facing combo, I also side in Hymns, so BB and WW casting costs might be too hard to accomodate...

Bongo
06-16-2006, 03:47 PM
I just wanna say that i LOVE this deck... And have continued tweaking it... :D

Thanks for the props. I've been working hard on this deck and was slightly disappointed that there was almost no interest, despite its good performances.



yeah, MD's rock solid (but I switched Therapy to Duress because I'm playing in unknown metas),

Duress is a possibility when your not comfortable with Therapy. However, once you know what to name, Therapy is a lot better because you can use it twice or still flash it back when you discard it to Brushhopper.



and here's the SB I have:

4 Withered Wretch - graveyard hate... and it's also a beater... :D
4 Rule of Law - combo hate
4 Hymn to Tourach - combo hate
3 Circle of Protection: Red - Speedy red has no chance now... :D

I thought of True Believer in the Rule of Law slot because it comes down one turn earlier, but when facing combo, I also side in Hymns, so BB and WW casting costs might be too hard to accomodate...

There are some suboptimal choices in your board.
You have 8 cards against combo, which is excessive, considering you already have 4 Duress MD.
As mentioned before, Cabal Therapy is very good and should be in the side as an anti-combo measure. Duress&Therapy work nicely together, cost less than Hymn&Rule and take up less space in the board. I've been doing pretty fine with my current setup.

Cop: Red is too mana-intensive. If you mean Burn/Sligh with speedy red, Warmth is an excellent choice. If you mean Goblins, Engineered Plague is backbreaking.

Withered Wretch is a possibility, but I find it too slow and mana-consuming compared to Tormods Crypt. The decks you want graveyard hate are basically:

1) Threshold
2) The Game/Bomberman/Iggy Pop
3) Ichorid
3) Reanimator

Against all of these decks, the speed of Crypt is very important. Against Threshold, its free cost can help to slip it past counters. Wretch is also weak against the UGR variant.


Has anybody else played SAK? What can be improved?