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Fatal
08-16-2017, 08:28 AM
Maverick 2.0 GW/x

https://magiccards.info/scans/en/ema/169.jpghttps://magiccards.info/scans/en/dka/24.jpghttps://magiccards.info/scans/en/mma/178.jpghttps://magiccards.info/scans/en/tp/340.jpg


Aberrations

silver bullet card (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1029797&viewfull=1#post1029797)– dedicated card versus aimed deck, strategy or other card which stops opponent strategy
clock – limiting opponent time to react (in turns), by attacking opponent, for example having lethal damage in creatures gives 1 turn clock.
hatebear – Silver bullet card which is a creature
card advantage – drawing more cards then opponent, or exchange one of your card for more then one of opponents, or using same card from graveyard more then once.
metagame – other decks which you will be facing against.
consistency deck – deck which have smooth mana curve, along with cards with similar role or many tutors or card selection.
mana curve – counting your cards mana cost and presenting on graph which will be hiperbolic to x axis – the aim for this deck is: y=23e^(-x/1.596), where y is number of cards in deck and x is the CMC including lands (need to be proven).
card quality – factor in building deck, every time you draw a card you count your card quality: which is cards you want to draw / all cards, for example every fetchland gives you better card quality every use. In late game you don’t want to draw more lands.

Introduction

Maverick is one of the most agile mid-range deck in the format. Its agility came from tutors and silver bullet cards which can handle most of situations faced in competitive play. Opposite to most constructions it’s focused on creatures not spells. It is proactive approach and gives decent clock which force opponent to act and change line of play.
Maverick strategy can attack on many diverse angles: hatebears, resources, card advantage, protected aggression. this mean it can work:
as a Control – hatebears, limiting opponent play and resources
as an Aggro – big and fast creatures bringing decent clock
as a Combo – locking opponent or bringing lethal combination of two cards.
All depends on build and pilot of the deck.

Goal

Main goal constructing your Maverick is to cover all excepted metagame with silver bullets (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1029797&viewfull=1#post1029797) along with not destabilize the Core which should guarantee your deck working, and have capability to change strategy for different opponent. The bigger is tournament, the harder to build optimal solution. Each Maverick will be different depends on predicted decks, but they share same Core.

Genesis and history

Maverick was on its beginning, a Vial deck created by M@verick (Luis Viciano) focused on Weathered Wayfarer advantage, few deck lists still can be found from half of 2010 on The Council Decks (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=2680&iddeck=10470).To honor his invention, name of the deck remains Maverick after his online nickname.
Interesting note is that did not abandon Vial build even after printing Green Sun’s Zenith, and made a decent record on BoM7 Legacy Main Event (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=4923&d=228430) with little tweaked version or their original build.
Second root is old Survival of The Fittest deck (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=5447&iddeck=39459) (which gets very popular in 2010, thanks to printing of Vengevine), which aim same goal as nowadays Maverick silverbullet for any situation. Survival get ban hammer in December 2010, due to repeatable tutoring. Few months later, after releasing Green Sun’s Zenith in February 4, 2011, Maverick was rebuild and gain consistency with help on new tutor, last Primer (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20612-Deck-GW-x-Maverick) was from April 2011.

Next notable fact was Fabian Gorzgen with his Punishing Fire build (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=2152&d=214874&f=LE) made top8 in from 1878 players add another approach to Maverick. Year after Green Sun's Zenith, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben join team Maverick in February 3, 2012. It fits perfectly to almost all creature deck as asymmetrical sphere of resistance.

Maverick was one of the most popular winning deck (based on TCDecks statistics) since July 2011 to January 2013, when it loses popularity due to overwhelming Deathrite Shaman in every deck and rise of OmniTell (Show and Tell deck with Omniscience), but this does not vanish Maverick from meta until September 2014. Khans of Tarkir mechanics delve for drawing cards blow meta to the end for next almost year (read Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time gap). To pair next prints of problematic creature from commander - True Name-Nemesis overclass any other creature in combat, so it become clear that Maverick need rebuild for next generation of decks. It is a good moment after banning Sensei Divining Top which impact on Miracle decks which runs Terminus which was problematic for each creature-centric deck.

Here it is new Primer, with a lot of analysis and freshness.

Why would you play Maverick

If you like fair creature base deck which can be build under your own preferences and meta calls Maverick is the best shell for You. Its agility and skill to adopt for almost any meta makes non-linear strategy, which create perfect deck in skilled player hands. Second reason is market value, excluding blue stamples along with blue manabase makes it cheaper then most Tier constructions.
Last reason to choose this deck is consistency, thanks to tutoring via Green Sun’s Zenith makes each silver bullet in deck accessible in each game which can lead to easy win in various meta.

Build

Maverick build changes in time, actually we have three different builds based on color splashes. Each splash brings options for sideboard to handle certain situations.

Pure Maverick – Straight GW with more space for utility lands

Dark Maverick – GWb list which gives access to discard and cheap uncounterable or mass removal

Punishing Maverick (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1025202&viewfull=1#post1025202) – GWr build which have punishing fire combo, along with access for more red cards.

Similar to good working system, Maverick build will be decomposed for Core and Packages.
Each module will be described in separate post:

Core (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1022388&viewfull=1#post1022388) – define Maverick, contains mana dorks, tutors and base creatures. Since Maverick has 3 main types Core will be little difference for each.

Silver bullets (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1029797&viewfull=1#post1029797) – package of 1-of cards which can be tutored on certain situations or against defined decks.

Equipment package (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1029798&viewfull=1#post1029798) – Stoneforge Mystic and equips fits very well to heavy creature decks, swords of X and Y, Batterskull and Jitte brings difference effects as a way to gain card advantage and protection against defined decks.

Removal package (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1021090&viewfull=1#post1021090) – Depends on targets and build there many ways to remove opponent creatures from battlefield.

Utility lands (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1029800&viewfull=1#post1029800) – Since Maverick running 4-of Knight of Reliquary which can tutor any land from deck utility lands brings an other way to gain advantage or answer opponent threads.

Card Advantage and Card Quality (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1029801&viewfull=1#post1029801) - Maverick have tools to outdraw opponent even without card selection in sort of Cantrips.

Creatures protection (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1029802&viewfull=1#post1029802) – this was separated from Core due to changes in version 2.0 to customize for proper meta

Mana Curve smoothness:
Based on function y=23e^(-x/1.596) (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=y%3D23e%5E(-x%2F1.596)) where y number of cards and x CMC we have:
CMC 0 - 23 cards (lands)
CMC 1 - 12 cards (mana dorks, removal and protection creatures)
CMC 2 - 7 cards (SFM, Thalia, Silver Bullets, CA/CQ like Sylvan Library)
CMC 3 - 4 cards (Knight of the Reliquary, CA like Tireless Tracker or Ramunap Excavator)
CMC 4 - 2 cards (mostly used in CMC 3 slots)
CMC 5 - 1 card (Batterskull / Sigarda / Walker)

Total: smoothness cards: 49,
4 GSZ fit to any category since they can be each CMC set 1 to 5, so It's used to smooth build.
7 cards left, mostly as distortion focused on CMC 2 and 3. That's why It's midrange deck.

Link to old thread (400+ pages) which was started in 2011 (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20612-Deck-GW-x-Maverick).


3 Matchups

Soon..

3.1 Pure Maverick matchups
3.2 Dark Maverick matchups
3.3 Punishing Maverick matchups

4 Bad cards already tested in Maverick

Megadeus
08-20-2017, 11:34 PM
Just posting this here, feel free to edit as you feel necessary and copy/paste into the primer. I may stop partially through to "save" my progress as I go along

REMOVAL IN MAVERICK:

Maverick is a deck that contains various elements of different types of strategies. There are some aggro elements, some prison elements, and even in some variations of the deck some control elements. Having these traits leads down the path that uses the term that has been popularized when describing decks like this as "midrange". At the heart of Maverick it is a Green and White deck so it has various pieces of removal. White has some of the most flexible options in terms of removal for most types of permanents in the game and this can lead to an incredibly varied differentiation in terms of players decklists due to very different metas.

Below I will outline some of the more commonly played removal spells in the deck

Swords to Plowshares: Not much is needed to be said about this card being the best removal piece in the game. This deck does at times care about the life total of the opponent, but the life gain is far and away better for an opponent than any of the other removal spells drawbacks. This is generally a four of in the main deck. In some of the versions running black for decay it may be trimmed a bit and in the red versions it may also be trimmed, but most of the time it is a 4-of.

Path to Exile: This card has waxed and waned in terms of removal and it often resides in the sideboard rather than the main board because Swords is generally a better spell. In a meta full of creature decks however, especially ones with little to no basic lands this can be a very powerful removal spell. In a meta of Delver it has often been played as a 2 to 3-of in the sideboard because having a pile of removal against the creature light tempo decks that is cheap helps a lot against mana denial.

Abrupt Decay: Ever since it has been printed alongside deathrite shaman, Abrupt Decay has been a mainstay in Green and Black decks. These two printings have shifted many maverick decks from the traditional GW versions to having a black splash for decay. Though it was at its best during the era where miracles (and therefore Counterbalance) reigned, it still warrants some main board slots due to its uncounterability in the tempo match-ups and its sheer flexibility in many others. Often it will be a 1 to 2-of in the main board of the GWB versions and sometimes may reside in the sideboard as an extra copy or two to add in, or often it may replace deisenchant style effects because it is more flexible.

Punishing Fire: Due to Knight of the Reliquary having a powerful land tutoring ability, and the fact that many creatures are smaller in the legacy format, some variants of Maverick run red instead of black as their third color, often to run this slow but powerful engine that can be great in attrition match-ups in conjunction with Grove of the Burnwillows. It is often very powerful in a very fair meta consisting of many creature decks, and it is also great at whittling down planeswalker loyalties. The downside is that it stresses your mana base a bit because of the need to run Grove with it, and that it is almost always a dead card in the combo match-ups. Another downside is the 2 mana cost to cast it in a deck that often runs Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, which often leads the player to put Thalia into the sideboard, or cut her completely which further exacerbates the weaknesses in the combo match-ups.

Sideboard Options for removal

Fatal Push: Since the printing it has been very popular for killing so many creatures efficiently in the format, unfortunately in this deck black is generally just a splash and you don't want to fetch a wastelandable black source early to use this against most of the decks that it is most useful against. This may have a home, but I think generally path is a better supplement than this is out of the board since this is primarily a GW deck.

Disenchant/Naturalize/Krosan Grip: This deck doesn't need this effect in spell form as much with the existence of Qasali Pridemage existing as a man who can be found off of green sun as well as just generally being a good attacker. However there is a surprise factor of these existing that people don't play around these cards as much. K-Grip was much more popular during the Counterbalance and Stoneblade era as excellent ways to answer CB itself and Batterskulls.

Council's Judgement: A bit clunky because of it's mana cost being WW and it costing 4 under a Thalia, but it is a clean way to answer difficult to deal with things like planeswalkers and True Name. It's sheer flexibility makes it always a fine, but not exciting option.

Zealous Persecution: A card that I feel is always worth a slot or two due to it being so good against so many decks. Being able to answer unflipped Delvers, Pyromancer and all of it's tokens, True Names, and half of the Death and Taxes deck and even can give you a fighting chance against Elves, it generally pulls it's weight in a variety of fair match ups. It is also a nice useful card to bring in against various Storm and Charbelcher decks to answer Empty the Warrens and even Dark Confidants or Pyromancers they may bring out of the sideboard. I don't think I've ever had 2 of this card in my board and thought to myself that I wanted less of it.

Seal of Cleansing/Seal of Primordium: Another variant of disenchant. The upside of these cards is that you can preemptively lay them down so you don't have to hold up mana later on, and they can also be dropped in off of Show and Tell's to answer Sneak Attack (if they don't have red mana avaiable), or Omniscience.

Oblivion Ring/Banishing Light: A faux Vindicate effect. It is a flexible but somewhat expensive answer. The upside to this over another clunky yet flexible answer like Council's Judgement is that this card can be dropped off of a show and tell to answer whatever they put in. You opponent can still do things like activate sneak attack or griselbrand in response to the trigger, but hopefully you have some sort of on board presence that either makes those difficult decisions or impossible ones in the case of paying 7 life if you have enough to attack for the win if they draw 7.

Blessed Alliance: A card with many uses. It's main one is to be an edict that can hit otherwise tough to deal with creatures such as Marit Lage or True Name Nemesis. It also can double as an extra mom activaton or knight activation as well, or even simply to gain life in the burn match up as well. The versatility of the card has earned a spot or two in many recent side boards.
EDIT: WILL ADD MORE LATER ON

Fatal
08-30-2017, 04:16 PM
Core in Maverick:

Core define what makes Maverick - a Maverick deck. Each deck containing this Core can be named Maverick and works similar.

Core must contain at least (to have consistency), any exception from Core doesn't bring instant instability, but you lose guarantee consistency:

4-5 Mana Dorks
(Deathrite Shaman, Noble Hierarch and Birds of Paradise) - proportions depends on splash and meta, actually mostly used are 4 Noble Hierarch + 1 Birds of Paradise. Each Mana Dork have their pros and cons:

Deathrite Shaman Ban hammer, not legal since 06.07.2018:
+feeds on opponent graveyard - cheapest gy hate on creature which exile creatures, spells and lands
+have 1/2 base attack/defense stats
+is green/black - can be cast from black source dodge some removal (nonblack removal like Shriekmaw)
+most aggressive among other dorks can deal 2 dmg each turn
+ gives any mana
-mana is conditional - depends on exiled land
-can be pinned by Pithing Needle - ability isn't mana source
-ability goes by stack can be answered - ability isn't mana source
-aggressive use require mana (B or G)

Noble Hierarch Most Used:
+Exalted - doesn't require any action except attack to add aggression
+giving mana isn't conditional
+giving mana is mana source
- low base stats (0/1) dies to -1/-1 effects
- gives only W/G/U mana

Birds of Paradise:
+giving mana isn't conditional
+giving mana is mana source
+flying - good with Sword of X and Y
+gives any mana
- have 0 attack and can't add aggression at all
- low base stats (0/1) dies to -1/-1 effects

8 Tutors
4 Green Sun's Zenith - GSZ brings consistency in every game you will be playing, each GSZ drawn can be any creature needed from Core to Silver Bullet (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1029797&viewfull=1#post1029797) creatures which are answer for present boardstate or even whole strategy or deck, for example GSZ for 2 for Gaddock Teeg against ANT brings mostly instant win in G1. Similar are when you GSZ for Scavenging Ooze vs Graveyard based strategy decks. GSZ can be artifact/enchantment removal, or any other utility creature - like protection against future removal - GSZ for Sylvan Safekeeper. It's value on hand scale with resources. More over it shuffle into library after use, so probability of drawing it grow each turn. GSZ is a reason why this deck exist and contains green creatures toolbox take a look at Silver Bullet Module.

4 Knight of the Reliquary - It loses it's power after printing deathrite shaman, but it's still core creature and should always be 4-of. It's land tutor, and thread. Her stats on battlefield scaling with play length thread, each search pump her attack/defense. All those doesn't show her power - the most played scenario is limiting opponent resources by searching Wasteland (and ghost quarter), which lead to opponent mana screw. Most times it will be the biggest thread on table. Additional utility lands toolbox can answer many hard situation - more described in Utility Lands Module.

4 Tax Creature:
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - Thalia is the reason why Maverick has so many success in Legacy, it's perfect asymmetric taxing effect against 85% of the field. Since Maverick running very soft number of spells compared to other decks it's one-side Sphere of Resistance. Adding good ability which is first strike creates perfect fit into core deck. Even with Punishing Fire build, Thalia will have it's place on SB. Since those are excluding cards and shouldn't be played together.

4-8 Removal:
3-4 Swords to Plowshares (depends on splash) - cheapest, exile and have minimal drawback
1-2 Abrupt Decay (depends on splash) - non-land removal but capped to CMC 3
0-4 Punishing Fire (depends on splash)

Minimum MD removal is 4. You need to have MD answer vs problematic creatures, or combo elements on creature. More about removal is described in Removal Module (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1021090&viewfull=1#post1021090)

22-24 Manabase:
Mana base should contain:
6-8 Fetchlands - focused on green fetches, 4 Windswept heath is mandatory depends on running basics and splashes
2-3 Basics - important against Blood Moon effects
3-4 Wasteland - Punishing Fire build require additional lands and scale its removal power with resources so most builds run only 3 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor - it's must have as turn 1 GSZ for 0 ramp
4-5 Dual Lands - depends on splashes - two splashes require mostly 5 dual lands and 8 fetchlands to be effective
2-4 Utility lands - Karakas is mandatory more about utility lands on Utility lands module.

Minimum is 22 lands which gives mana from start including Dryad Arbor, which should have 18 colored mana sources (counting fetchlands, basics, arbor, dual lands and ulity lands which gives colored mana).
Maverick is mana hungry deck, which get stronger along with more resources. It also can survive on very little mana from lands and cover it by mana dorks, utility creatures and utility lands like Gaea's Cradle.

Maximum is 24 lands which gives mana from start, including Dryad Arbor. Each land which doesn't give mana from start - shouldn't be counted as manabase. 24 lands should be in Punishing Fire build, which require more mana then other splashes, 3-4 Grove of the Burnwillows should be included.

Other free slots should be distributed on silver bullets (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1029797&viewfull=1#post1029797), CQ/CA cards, Equipments package and creature protection.

Example Core list - Pure Maverick GW:


4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Windswept heath
4 Verdant Catacombs / Wooded Foothills
4 Wastelands
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plains
2 Forest
4 Savannah
3 Utility lands (example: Ghost Quarter, Maze of Ith, Horizon Canopy)
16 free slots to distribute on silverbullets (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1029797&viewfull=1#post1029797), equips/sfm, CA/CQ cards or even additional removal if it's meta call.

Example Core list - Dark Maverick GWb:

4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Windswept heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plains
2 Forest
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
3 Utility lands (example: Ghost Quarter, Gaea's Cradle, Horizon Canopy)
16 free slots to distribute on silverbullets (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1029797&viewfull=1#post1029797), equips/sfm, CA/CQ cards or even additional removal if it's meta call.

Example Core list - Punishing Maverick GWr:

4 Noble hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben / 3 Punishing Fire, 1 Abrupt Decay then Thalia on SB

4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Windswept heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Utility lands (example: Bojuka Bog, Horizon Canopy)
15 free slots to distribute on silverbullets, equips/sfm, CA/CQ cards or even additional removal if it's meta call.

Back to Top. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1020637&viewfull=1#post1020637)

Seraphix
09-28-2017, 08:58 PM
Punishing Maverick: Deck Theory
The innocuous synergy between Grove of the Burnwillows and Punishing Fire was initially discovered in Extended. It has since become apparent that the theoretically infinite supply of Shocks granted by this combination is extremely potent in Legacy. Here is how Punishing Fire lines up against creatures in the current Legacy metagame (https://pastebin.com/K79L404Q).

Punishing Fire was first adopted in Maverick decks at the end of 2011, primarily as a way of gaining an edge in the Maverick mirror. It turns out that the Punishing Fire + Grove of the Burnwillows combination slots very naturally into a GWx Maverick shell for several reasons:

Knight of the Reliquary allows you to tutor for Grove of the Burnwillows. With a Punishing Fire in your graveyard, your Knight essentially can tutor for a burn spell. This tutorability means you do not have to play a full set of Grove of the Burnwillows, which can be sub-optimal as a strictly mana producing land.
Swords to Plowshares allows you to trigger your Punishing Fires without needing Grove of the Burnwillows. Punishing Fire will trigger at any instance of your opponent gaining life. Grove is the easiest way of causing this to happen, but any incidental lifegain by your opponent triggers your Punishing Fires. Like the interaction above with Knight of the Reliquary, this one allows for greater flexibility in abusing the card Punishing Fire, which a Naya-colored deck is uniquely situated to do due to its staple cards.
Punishing Fire adds an axis of interaction to the deck that isn't creature-based. Maverick traditionally plays very much into the board, leaving it vulnerable to sweeper effects, particularly against control decks. Punishing Fire allows a Maverick strategy to pressure the opponent's life total or Planeswalkers without committing resources to the board. Its recoverability means even with no cards in hand you are able to interact, and it also requires a different kind of answer from the opposing deck than your creatures do.

A Red splash in Maverick primarily for Punishing Fire comes with several other important implications:

Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, a Maverick staple, becomes more disruptive to your own gameplan since the Punishing Grove engine is very mana-intensive. Thalia is still a strong card in many matchups and can have a place in the 75, but without this card in your maindeck you will have worse combo matchups in game 1. There are few matchups where you want both Punishing Fire and Thalia in your deck, so you can decide which one to play main and easily switch to the other after sideboarding. Alternately, both can be played maindeck to have the widest range of game 1 matchup quality.
A Red splash and another color splash (Black or Blue) in the same Maverick deck are not mutually exclusive. A 3.5-color Punishing Maverick deck is possible due to the fact that the deck is heavily GW, with numerous mana creatures facilitating color splashes. Such a version undeniably has a shakier manabase than a GWr version, but can incorporate most strengths of both color splashes.
Strategically, The difference between a Maverick deck with Punishing Fire and one without comes down to improved midrange and control matchups, at the cost of worse combo matchups. It is important to note that Punishing Maverick does not necessarily have bad combo matchups, and post-board still has access to a lot of the same tools as other Maverick variants.
Its also noteworthy that Punishing Fire is rarely a dead card in game 1 since it can target the opponent. Furthermore, most fair decks struggle to interact with the Punishing Grove combination without access to their sideboard, so having this engine in your maindeck should greatly improve your game 1 MW% against fair decks.

Ultimately, deciding which Maverick deck to play comes down to your expected meta, playstyle, or preference.


Analysis of Punishing Maverick-specific Card Choices

Punishing Fire - Discussed above

Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast - Efficient and versatile cards against all Blue-based decks.

Creatures
Bloodbraid Elf - While arguably the most powerful GR creature in Legacy, its poor interaction with Green Sun's Zenith and the situational nature of many of Maverick's cards make it ill-suited to the deck. See Huntmaster of the Fells for an alternative.
Granger Guildmage - Packs two useful abilities against creature-based decks.
Huntmaster of the Fells - Top-end value creature.
Kavu Predator - Trampling threat that synergizes with Grove of the Burnwillows and Swords to Plowshares.
Scab-Clan Berserker - Powerful threat against spell-based decks, but less efficient than the CMC2 White hatebears commonly found in Maverick sideboards.
Vithian Renegades - Compare to Reclamation Sage, better body but less versatile effect.

Disenchant Effects
Ancient Grudge - Premium artifact removal, good vs Death & Taxes, Stoneblade, and Stompy decks, not to mention fringier artifact-based decks like Affinity and Tezzerator.
Destructive Revelry - An elegant Naturalize with a built-in Shock.
Wear / Tear - More flexible than Ancient Grudge but less powerful. The fuse ability can come up against decks like Aggro Loam, Death & Taxes, Stoneblade, Stompy, Shardless BUG, and other Maverick decks.
Hull Breach - Compare to Wear / Tear. Similar effect but is a Sorcery, will always cost GR to cast.

Planeswalkers
Ajani Vengeant - +1 ability enables a wide range of interactions, but both that and the -2 can line up poorly against threats in various game states.
Arlinn Kord - +1 ability is particularly strong with Knight of the Reliquary. Notably can function as a win condition that doesn't require the combat step.
Chandra, Pyromaster - +1 ability is very strong against small creatures, and also gives evasion in board stalls via the Falter effect. The 0 ability generates card advantage in grindy matchups.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Also can function as a win condition that doesn't require the combat step. Her +1's inability to target opposing Planeswalkers is somewhat problematic.
Domri Rade - Punishing Maverick decks don't have a very high creature count (~20-23), so the +1 ability is worse than it appears, but still enables some library manipulation in conjunction with the many shuffle effects in Maverick. -2 ability has interesting implications with Mother of Runes and Exalted, but generally creatures in Maverick are small outside of Knight of the Reliquary.
Xenagos, the Reveler - Hasty 2/2 tokens are deceptively powerful, as is the +1 Gaea's Cradle ability, but vulnerable due to his low loyalty. Compare with Garruk Relentless.

Sweepers
Mass removal has applications against many strategies such as Death & Taxes, Delver, Elves, and Empty the Warrens, but be wary that many Red sweeper effects can cause significant damage to your own deck. Also note that there is no efficient Red sweeper that destroys True-Name Nemesis. A new printing to look out for is a cheap Red sweeper that has "damage caused by [Cardname] can't be prevented", as that would destroy the Merfolk Rouge by negating its Protection.
Blazing Volley - Compare with Electrickery.
Electrickery - Particularly strong against Young Pyromancer, and has the utility of being an Instant.
Fiery Justice - Cumbersome but powerful, capable of killing several creatures with different toughness levels. Can also be a single spot removal spell for large creatures like Gurmag Angler, Tarmogoyf, and Reality Smasher, or a Planeswalker with <6 loyalty.
Pyroclasm - The most efficient Red sweeper available overall.
Sudden Demise - Unique effect that can be one-sided in many situations.


Punishing Maverick Manabase Construction

Red Dual Lands
Punishing Maverick decks typically only splash a few Red spells. While Red-producing mana creatures such as Birds of Paradise can be played, its important to have redundant and reliable Red mana sources in the form of Taiga and Plateau. 2 Red mana sources are required to use the Punishing Fire engine effectively with 5+ mana available; therefore, at least 2 Red dual lands are required. A 3rd Red dual land provides insulation against Wastelands/Hymn to Tourach etc. and is recommended. 3 is the most commonly played number.

Grove of the Burnwillows
As discussed above, one of the advantages of Punishing Maverick as a Punishing Fire midrange deck is it doesn't need to play a set of Grove of the Burnwillows, which can be sub-optimal as a strictly mana producing land. 3 is the most commonly played number.

Wasteland
Since it requires a certain number of Groves, Punishing Maverick has less space for utility lands like Wasteland than other Maverick decks. As a result, 3 is the most commonly played number. 3 Wastelands are enough to cripple the opponent in many situations, and they can be reliably found with Knight. Due to the mana-hungry nature of the Punishing Fire engine, Punishing Maverick also often wishes to keep lands in play.

Utility Lands
There are few utility lands with activated abilities requiring Red mana to use that are worth considering in Maverick. Foremost among these are the similar Kessig Wolf Run and Skarrg, the Rage Pits. Comparing these cards, Wolf Run provides a mana sink and can turn any creature into a large threat, but the efficiency and point of toughness granted by Skarrg are not to be overlooked. Note that Trample damage is dealt through Protection effects, including True-Name Nemesis.


Deck Comparisons
Its pertinent to compare Punishing Maverick with other fair, midrange Punishing Fire strategies, and identify the advantages Punishing Maverick has over them.

Punishing Jund
This undeniably powerful deck is the polar opposite of Maverick in many ways, being built around high card quality and raw card advantage rather than synergy and card selection. There was a general perception that Punishing Jund made Punishing Maverick obsolete, which is incorrect, particularly following the banning of Deathrite Shaman in mid-2018. Notable advantages of Punishing Maverick over Punishing Jund:

Acceleration: Punishing Maverick has access to high-quality mana acceleration, making it faster and less susceptible to mana denial and color-fixing problems.
Consistency: Green Sun's Zenith grants Punishing Maverick a huge edge in consistency, allowing moderation between mana screw and mana flood, and the ability to select the best creature for a given matchup or board state.
White VS Black: Punishing Maverick has access to powerful White permanent-based hate cards like Thalia, Gaddock Teeg, and Karakas, which Jund really has no analog to. This results in combo matchups playing out differently between the two decks.
Better Punishing Fire Deck: Punishing Maverick can abuse the card Punishing Fire more efficiently and reliably due to also playing Knight of the Reliquary and Swords to Plowshares, as discussed above. Jund has to play more Groves in order to draw them naturally, and as an R/G land Grove conflicts with the high density of BB spells (Hymn to Tourach, Liliana of the Veil) in the Jund deck.

4C Aggro Loam
Punishing Maverick has become compared with or confused for 4C Aggro Loam, an archetype that has become much more visible since GP Lille in the middle of 2015. The two decks share many cards, and again there is a false perception that Aggro Loam has made Punishing Maverick obsolete. Notable advantages of Punishing Maverick over Aggro Loam:

Consistency: The full set of Green Sun's Zenith grants Punishing Maverick an edge in consistency, and Maverick is also less reliant on specific cards to function optimally.
Efficiency: Punishing Maverick is more efficient as it isn't encumbered by the deckbuilding restrictions of Chalice of the Void and plays numerous 1CMC spells. Aggro Loam plays loads of 2CMC spells and as a result can struggle to curve out, use all its mana, and cast multiple spells in a turn. These tempo losses can be exploited by other more efficient Legacy decks.
Threat-Density: Aggro Loam has a strong dichotomy between setup (Lands, Mox Diamond) and payoff cards (Knight of the Reliquary, Liliana of the Veil). While Aggro Loam's best draws are more powerful than Punishing Maverick's, on average Punishing Maverick is more threat-dense and has higher card and topdeck quality.


Other Resources

Punishing Maverick Decklists (https://pastebin.com/uZyua6ht)
Click the link above to see a compilation of Punishing Maverick decklists that have been successful at large tournaments over the years, and which showcase the many ways you can build a Punishing Maverick deck.

Punishing Maverick Gameplay Videos (https://pastebin.com/cBykjjsq)

Fatal
11-11-2017, 08:51 PM
Silver bullet cards

Power of Maverick is having answer vs any situation met while playing against today meta. Every time when you have Green Sun's Zenith it's like having Demonic Tutor for G. This mean good Maverick build have toolbox to fight against meta.

There will be the list of Silver Bullets (1-of green creature for specify situation common in today meta):

Searched cards from Core:

Mana dorks - one of the most common targets from GSZ, when you need mana, you can Zenith for 0 -> Dryad Arbor, or Zenith for 1 -> Deathrite Shaman / Birds of Paradise / Noble Hierarch.

Knight of the Reliquary - biggest badass on the battlefield, which can tutor any land.

Must have:

Qasali Pridemage - Artifact and Enchantment destroyer attached to Watch Wolf counting exalted trigger. It's only drawback is type - cat wizard, which mean it can't be cast of out Cavern easily. Every Maverick deck should have at least 1 in MD (2 and 3 was also common in Blade decks domination). Remember that it can be needled or revokered so keep in mind additional artifact / enchantment removal in SB. The most common friend will be spells like Abrupt Decay, Ancient Grudge or Reclamation Sage (if legs are needed).

Scryb Ranger - Many people underestimate it's power - not running it is mistake. Let write what it does: Flash (can be nasty surprise on instant), Flying with Blue Protection - blocks every Delver, Clique or Strix, and can: bring mana (from untapped creature like dryad arbor or shaman/etc), protect your unbasics vs opponent wastelands and bring additional activation from Knight. It also bring constant stream of Clues from Tireless Tracker trigger. Many times you need of of those things and then you GSZ for Scryb Ranger. It's also one of the best equip carrier (flash and flying).

Gaddock Teeg - Storm killer, this little dude close up storm matchup on it's own. It stops also most Walkers, FoWs and other expensive spells. Remember that it blocks Chalice of the Void (X in costs). To win G1 against storm you need 1 in your MD. It also protects your dudes vs Terminus so keep one more in SB if your meta have any UW Control.

Scavenging Ooze - before Deathrite Shaman was printed it was the cheapest GY hate answer with legs. Now it's still very good since it can block opponent Shamans, along with fast growth it size if have enough food. Very good vs opponent recursion like snapcasters. It also shrink goyfs and fight nice decks dependent on graveyard - lands, reanimator or dredge. It also very good against burn since it will have food from your burned creature - hot snacks !

Most common:

Renegade Railler - Maverick was running Eternal Witness not so long ago (before DRS), Railler is just Witness on steroids since it put in to play when Revolt is met. Only downside is that it can't bring back removal, but it has much better body - 3/2. The most common target for Railler is double wasteland turn which destroys most midrange decks. CMC <= 2 is enough to bring most important things - Jitte, Thalia, Shaman or another Wasteland.

Tireless Tracker - It is many times omitted creature, but it gives hugh advantage almost every time you have land in hands. It growth fast and have build in CA for each land fall. If you have empty hand (only lands in hand) it's better target then Knight of the Reliquary. Only drawback is little body (bolt range) before you eat 2 Clues. It's one of the best CA in this deck. Always try to cast it before your land drop. It's not worth 1-for-1 card.

Ramunap Excavator - Crucible Man, or Crucible with legs. Maverick runs (specially punishing version) one life from the loam to cycle wasteland or bring back Grove of the Burnwillows, now you don't need to dig with Sylvan Library - you can Zenith your Loam. It ends game very fast if opponent didn't answer it. Best to cast it before you cast your land drop to always gain advantage from it. It is the reason to run utility lands like Horizon Canopy (1 extra draw for 1 mana and land drop each turn), Ghost Quarter - "I see you running 2 basics to not be screwed by wastelands... not for long"

Sylvan Safekeeper - GSZ=1 instant shroud for target creature YOUR control. It's best protection in mid-late game for your creatures. Since you can bring back lands by Ramunap or Railler it's eacy to lock all removal. It also final push for Knight of the Reliquary if you need to race. Will be more about that little Human in protection section.

Reclamation Sage - brother of Pridemage - disenchant with legs as enter to the battlefield trigger, good to answer Revokers, mostly used in SB.


Finishers - when you really need to end game, it's not so important to run any of them:

Huntmaster of the Fells - used sometimes in Punishing Fire version. Good split body with option to be transformed with bigger body and ping for 2. Depends how long will survive

Mystic Enforcer - worth only with threshold - 1 mana cheaper, 6/6, Sigarda vs non-white decks, which can't be blocked by Strix. Worth trying if your meta is full of Czech Pile.and... it's a Human.

Thrun, the Last Troll - Hexproof with Regeneration, and uncounterable - works quite nice to deal with heavy controls, good 4/4 body enough to end game fast before they find deluge.

Titania, Protector of Argoth - always a CA - 2 for 1, and good stream of 5/3 creatures. If you can Zenith for her with Karakas it's mostly game ending creature. Drawbacks - doesn't work well with opponent Karakas, or active Shaman.

Sigarda Host of Herons - build hexproof, flying, big body - everything what is needed to end game fast. It also bring protection against Edict effects, which is hugh. It only can be killed by spells: Terminus or Deluge. Drawback - ugly loses to Strix when she stands and waits. Probably the most common finisher.

Less common finishers:

The Gitrog Monster - Works only with fetchlands (like a Titania) but it doesn't bring land from GY, so it's worst IMO, but it's bolt proof and push/decay proof. So it can make difference. I'm not a fan of that card in Maverick, but it can cycle a lot of lands with Sylvan Safekeeper. Massive body helps in combat.

Centaur Vinecrasher - Fixed Terravore with option to recursion option for double green: GG. Important it can be really big and have trample - biggest drawback - it's not Knight of the Reliquary aka. Magus of Crop Rotation so it can't search lands, Centaur is good only for attacking - can be good in mirror to fight opponent Knights.


Less common functional cards:

Wilt-Leaf Liege - It's more SB card - as answer to discard, plague, or dread of night. Decent body.

Courser of Kruphix - Mostly burn killer, enough to survive bolt and gives quite a lot of life, with additional CQ with land filtering. I'm not a big fan of it, be it proven it's value when meta was more U/R or Burn oriented.

Leovold, Emissary of Trest - met only in little blue splash. It's very good card vs heavy removal decks like Czech Pile, or BUG Control. Great when pair with Karakas - anyway it will die first for sure, good with Karakas.

Granger Guildmage - this little dude is like Grim Lavamancer, except you don't exile your graveyard and paying life instead. It's second ability also useful - first strike can prevent Jitte counters, or suppress lifelink. It's mostly vs Strix, Elves, Snapcasters etc.. Don't forget with Scryb Ranger it can easy kill also Deathrite Shaman. Don't forget it's a Human. Worth trying.

Timbermare - Walker killer with an option for 3G - 5/5, Haste and taps all other creature when Enter to battlefield, works great with Scryb Ranger (KotR untap ? -> lethal). It has echo which sometimes worth paid (if you can). Good body protects from bolts. Affordable after opponent Jace, even if they fateseal.

That's all useful tools which can be picked by Green Sun's Zenith.

Back to Top. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1020637&viewfull=1#post1020637)

Fatal
11-11-2017, 09:28 PM
Equip Package

Small:

2 Umezawa's Jitte - Not paired with Stoneforge Mystic, but still good as surprise and option to deal with creature based decks. Best equipment, and cheapest to use.

Mid:

2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice (SoFI)- most common package, which helps to deal with True-Name Nemesis. SoFI also gives biggest Card Advantage and decent clock.

Big:

3-4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull / Sword of Light and Shadow / Sword of Feast and Famine

- Batterskull is very good as finisher never ending creature, if you have enough lands it's easy to bounce in response to removal which makes Batterskull very hard to deal. It also give edge in matchups where your life matters - like Burn or Eldrazi. Remember that Germ is black.

- Sword of Light and Shadow is mostly against BUG and D&T and Miracles decks. BUG guarantee trigger to pick up dead creature to gain advantage. This sword also have the best protections against removal. Vs D&T it also mean almost unblockable (only Phyrexian Revoker).

- Sword of Feast and Famine - Still very good as Tempo maker and anti-control - best vs BUG Control.

Worth mention equips but rather rare used:

Manriki-Gusari - anti-equipment can be useful as additional answer if your meta is equipement heavy.

Basilisk Collar - cheaper batterskull, also used on Granger Guildmage. Can work in heavy aggro meta filled with Burn and Eldrazi, but aren't too useful outside those matchups.

Lightning Greaves - more cute then useful - every time you want to attach it to Knight - every time opponent will have removal - if not - why use greaves - only for haste ?

Depends on your meta you need to choose how big your Equips package would be. If your meta is full of artifact removal (Kolaghan's Command, Abrade, Ancient Grudge etc) - mostly Czech Piles, 4-colors controls, make your package not too big to have option to side it out. Remember that Equips are one of the ways to gain card advantage, if you cut them - you need something other which will be enough to win the game.

Back to Top. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1020637&viewfull=1#post1020637)

Fatal
11-11-2017, 10:06 PM
Utility Lands

Maverick running 4 "Magus of Crop Rotation" => Knight of the Reliquary which can tutor any land directly from library. Most time your pick will be Wasteland to cut of opponent resources, but not always. Here are useful lands to pick.


Most Common lands not mention in Core:

Karakas - Must have answer vs any legendary creature, enough to bounce Show and Telled Emrakul, or any other problematic Legend. Important note - it can bounce every attacking Gideon !

Cavern of Souls - not so common as before SDT ban but still very useful in Tempo matchup to resolve Knight of Reliquary.

Gaea's Cradle - biggest mana boost when you running 30 creatures, for more expensive threads from GSZ or casting and equip sword. It's really gives an edge.

Deeper thoughts does Gaea's Cradle is a win more:


It allows you to seal a game that's true, but it also allows to get back from behind by casting a sofi, equiping it AND getting a hit in (meaning +2 cards if you shock a creature).

Or it can allow you to equip a batterskull that was dead on your board for extra racing options.

Or it can allow you to gsz for 2 + have spare mana to eat stuff off ooze even through drs.

Maverick is a very mana hungry deck so the extra mana is rarely useless.


I think the biggest advantage that cradle has is how explosive it can be in any stage of the game after the 1st turn. My favorite lines are playing a 1 drop turn 1 into another 1 drop + cradle + 2 or 3 drop on turn two. Or just being able to use knight to generate a ton of mana to both cast and equip equipment.


Partly agree it can be win more, but:
- it also provide edge over good players when 1 vs 2 mana mean cast and equip SOFI which gives you a Victory
- it provide option when you have Knight and making geddon via wastelands with Scryb Ranger, then you left 1 land and can't cast spells while opponent cast some blocker vs which you don't have answer (for example Strix or TNN), without Cradle you can't rebuild / answer this defending thread.

On the other side:
Cradle isn't good vs heavy tempo oriented meta (RUG/BUG/Grixis specially with stifles) with a lot of removal. It will be mostly a dead card since your board presence will mean -> you already win.

Horizon Canopy - Save from flood, can be used by cycle land to draw when you need it, works great with Ramunap Excavator

Ghost Quarter - 5th wasteland vs most tempo decks, works also very nice with Ramunap Excavator - it's easy to blow up 1-2 basics with it and basically cut of any opponents' resources for good

Maze of Ith - much less popular then it was before True Name Nemesis print. Works as pseudo-vigilance and defending against opponent attacks. Mostly not worth in today meta.

Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage - both lands should be used as a pair. It's debatable asset. It makes your manabase cluncky or your thread density lower, but It also very good against nonwhite decks. Running this combo gives option to Knight to end game quite fast - 3 turns, this mean that 7/7 Knight if not blocked will have same speed. Important difference: not blocked. Marit Lage flies over TNN, and don't die to Strix.

Less common:

Kessig Wolf Run - good in late game (every creature is a big thread), and to trample over True-Name Nemesis.

Tower of the Magistrate - good answer to equipements, can easy de-equip any creature or kill germ, use only in heavy equip meta.

Yavimaya Hollow - good answer vs heavy removal decks without white, non of used removal by UB/x decks have closure "can't be regenerated". Drawback - cost 1 green and tap.

Volrath's Stronghold - good to cycle creatures, rare used, mostly with Eternal Witness.

Sejiri Steppe - bad card shouldn't be used it won't save your Knight of Reliquary since most deck will kill it right away, even if he survive a turn he will be killed in the moment when he will be tapped.

Back to Top. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1020637&viewfull=1#post1020637)

Fatal
11-11-2017, 10:30 PM
Card Advantage and Card Quality

Maverick is a Midrange Deck, this mean it have to out draw opponent with value - card quality or with number of threads - card advantage. To achieve it we need to draw more cards then opponent or have more cards 2-for-1 then opponent, to have more threads then even a control have removal spells.

Since we focused on creatures most CA will came from creatures. Main source of card advantage are equipments (from equips package) which makes every little creature very effective. Direct drawing cards, and killing opponent creatures comes from Sword of Fire and Ice trigger or from Umezawa's Jitte .

The other card advantages comes from direct 2 for 1 cards:

Tireless Tracker with land - even if opponent kill it right after resolve you will get a clue which mean - draw a card.

Ramunap Excavator with land in graveyard - same as Tracker - always gives advantage.

The best of those creatures are that, if opponent doesn't answer right away they can give much more then 2 for 1 cards.

Last one is Renegade Railler which also almost always bring 2 for 1, since he return permanent right in to battlefield.

As card selection (and card advantage) we use Sylvan Library which is one of the best 2 CMC enchantments. Which dodge removal, and can give possibility to draw extra cards for 4 life each. Remember it's extra draw which means it doesn't work under Leovold, Emissary of Trest - even card selection.

That's direct card advantage from cards, but the most common way to gain advantage is aggressive attack opponent mana base (wastelands, and Thalia taxing) which gives virtual advantage - when they don't have resources they can't cast spells for enough time to end game. Second common way is to play as aggro deck to push opponent life total and force him to chump block.

Back to Top. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1020637&viewfull=1#post1020637)

Fatal
11-11-2017, 10:48 PM
Creature protection

Mother of Runes is she really needed in today meta ? Today decks like Czech Pile can easy cast removal spell each turn since turn 1 to the end of the game (ultimate Liliana, or just land Jace with more removal). But how it changes since 2013 for example ? Today decks have much more removal in their 75 which have additional options, take a look at Czech Pile:
1-2 Lightning Bolt
3-4 Fatal Push
1-2 Diabolic Edict
1-2 Toxic Deluge
3-4 Kolghan's Command
3-4 Snapcaster Mage
1-2 Liliana of Lost Hope

This is a lot of removal spells which is enough to full stabilize and outdraw us. All of them are cheap and effective (kill also Knight of the Reliquary). This mean additional Mother of Runes doesn't change too much it will just die like each other creature, and they won't end the stream of removal. This thoughts lead to change Maverick philosophy against control decks, we must outdraw them with CA, or seal them with repeatable instant protection:
Sylvan Safekeeper (MD)
Steely Resolve (on SB) - each important creature is an Human.

A lot of people won't agree with me - but try this harder build, it's worth.

Mother of Runes is really good in mirror, or in any other non-combo (won't stop tempo only save already resolved hatebear), non-tempo (doesn't do too much against Delver), non-control matchup(described upper) - I hardly cut her, but we can deal without her with any other decks - sure it's easier G1 for example vs Death & Taxes when we land Mom, but we can deal with them without her, specially after SB.


Back to Top. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31927-Primer-Maverick-2-0-GW-x&p=1020637&viewfull=1#post1020637)

Stuart
11-14-2017, 10:05 AM
Nice work guys! This is great.

Quick thought: in the first post, you might want to offer a slightly clearer definition of Dark Maverick. "GWb list which gives access to discard and cheap uncounterable or mass removal" sounds a lot like standard Junk Maverick lists, while I think of Dark Maverick as running Bob. Of course, I could be wrong about that.

*Edit: I see that further down you've listed the core of Dark Maverick, which doesn't include Bob. Have I just been wrong about classifying Dark Maverick?*

pettdan
11-14-2017, 10:38 AM
Nice work guys! This is great.

Quick thought: in the first post, you might want to offer a slightly clearer definition of Dark Maverick. "GWb list which gives access to discard and cheap uncounterable or mass removal" sounds a lot like standard Junk Maverick lists, while I think of Dark Maverick as running Bob. Of course, I could be wrong about that.

*Edit: I see that further down you've listed the core of Dark Maverick, which doesn't include Bob. Have I just been wrong about classifying Dark Maverick?*

I have very rarely seen Dark Confidant included in Maverick lists splashing black [edit: like stated by later posters this seems to have been the historic reason though] . I interpret the "dark" in Dark Maverick as only being related to playing a few black cards, just like in the description above. For a while I considered if it could have something to do with Dark Depths but I don't think so.

gszteeg
11-14-2017, 11:26 AM
I have very rarely seen Dark Confidant included in Maverick lists splashing black. I interpret the "dark" in Dark Maverick as only being related to playing a few black cards, just like in the description above. For a while I considered if it could have something to do with Dark Depths but I don't think so.

Na. I don't run Bob nor Depths in the 75. The Black is meant for D-rites and sb tech like Engineered Plague, Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Zealous Persecution, etc.

haganbmj
11-14-2017, 12:05 PM
Na. I don't run Bob nor Depths in the 75. The Black is meant for D-rites and sb tech like Engineered Plague, Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Zealous Persecution, etc.

That's how I've always interpreted black in maverick. More than that and you start moving into a different deck.

Cpt-Qc
11-14-2017, 12:11 PM
Nice work guys! This is great.

Quick thought: in the first post, you might want to offer a slightly clearer definition of Dark Maverick. "GWb list which gives access to discard and cheap uncounterable or mass removal" sounds a lot like standard Junk Maverick lists, while I think of Dark Maverick as running Bob. Of course, I could be wrong about that.

*Edit: I see that further down you've listed the core of Dark Maverick, which doesn't include Bob. Have I just been wrong about classifying Dark Maverick?*

You are right. Dark Maverick was originally the inclusion of Dark Confidant and Dark Depths in the maindeck. It also ran way deeper in black with the usual Decay maindeck. It's about as different as Punishing Maverick (4-8 cards) and thus should be specified.

People can use the name however they want but just using depths and drs does not make the deck Dark Maverick. It's simply maverick with a black splash.

Drkmaverick
11-15-2017, 06:04 AM
Hi guys! Returning maverick player here! Lasttime i played was in 2012. Upon checking lists in mtgtop8.com i can see some decklists are not using gaeas cradle. But from what i can remember i have 1 gaeas cradle in my decklist in the past. Is gaeas cradle still needed in the current maverick list. I would really like some insights before i invest in a card that really spiked up in price :( would play competitively after i get all the pieces needed for the deck. Thank you in advance guys!

Fatal
11-15-2017, 06:31 AM
Hi guys! Returning maverick player here! Lasttime i played was in 2012. Upon checking lists in mtgtop8.com i can see some decklists are not using gaeas cradle. But from what i can remember i have 1 gaeas cradle in my decklist in the past. Is gaeas cradle still needed in the current maverick list. I would really like some insights before i invest in a card that really spiked up in price :( would play competitively after i get all the pieces needed for the deck. Thank you in advance guys!

It depends on build, Gaea's Cradle provide mana boost depends on situation. If your build running CMC = 5 Thread you need it for sure, if not - it depends on equipment package (I recommend it if you are running Batterskull). Running Gaea's Cradle is risky in heavy removal meta when it will doesn't add any mana to your mana pool.

Price of Gaea's Cradle are because of Elves which runs 4-of it.

Drkmaverick
11-15-2017, 06:47 AM
It depends on build, Gaea's Cradle provide mana boost depends on situation. If your build running CMC = 5 Thread you need it for sure, if not - it depends on equipment package (I recommend it if you are running Batterskull). Running Gaea's Cradle is risky in heavy removal meta when it will doesn't add any mana to your mana pool.

Price of Gaea's Cradle are because of Elves which runs 4-of it.


I only run 3 drops 4 reliquary , ramunap and sanctum prelate in sideboard. But do you recommend putting some bigncreatures? Thank you your guide is reallyreally helpful!

haganbmj
11-15-2017, 11:02 AM
I only run 3 drops 4 reliquary , ramunap and sanctum prelate in sideboard. But do you recommend putting some bigncreatures? Thank you your guide is reallyreally helpful!

Certainly don't need to. I always found Gaea's Cradle allowed me to be a bit more aggressive with Wasteland. You can go to a lower land count and still retain usable mana.
Also helps with playing/equipping equipment and 4-mana green sun's zeniths.

Fatal
11-15-2017, 11:28 AM
Certainly don't need to. I always found Gaea's Cradle allowed me to be a bit more aggressive with Wasteland. You can go to a lower land count and still retain usable mana.
Also helps with playing/equipping equipment and 4-mana green sun's zeniths.

Agree ! Cradle also provide mana generation after 2-3 wastelands when both players have 1-2 lands left.



I only run 3 drops 4 reliquary , ramunap and sanctum prelate in sideboard. But do you recommend putting some bigncreatures? Thank you your guide is reallyreally helpful!

Not really needed, it depends on meta. If you can end game (for example many slow controls in meta), some big thread like Sigarda would be an asset.

Drkmaverick
11-15-2017, 09:15 PM
Certainly don't need to. I always found Gaea's Cradle allowed me to be a bit more aggressive with Wasteland. You can go to a lower land count and still retain usable mana.
Also helps with playing/equipping equipment and 4-mana green sun's zeniths.

I guess i need cradle's haha. I just thought playing maze of ith or extra fetch lands/duals maintains more consistency for maverick. Don't you think cradles is a win more card for maverick? Coz if you can produce alot of mana with cradle that means you have enough board presence to win you the game even without the cradle.

Cpt-Qc
11-15-2017, 09:48 PM
I guess i need cradle's haha. I just thought playing maze of ith or extra fetch lands/duals maintains more consistency for maverick. Don't you think cradles is a win more card for maverick? Coz if you can produce alot of mana with cradle that means you have enough board presence to win you the game even without the cradle.

It allows you to seal a game that's true, but it also allows to get back from behind by casting a sofi, equiping it AND getting a hit in (meaning +2 cards if you shock a creature).

Or it can allow you to equip a batterskull that was dead on your board for extra racing options.

Or it can allow you to gsz for 2 + have spare mana to eat stuff off ooze even through drs.

Maverick is a very mana hungry deck so the extra mana is rarely useless.

ThisIsNilla
11-15-2017, 09:59 PM
I guess i need cradle's haha. I just thought playing maze of ith or extra fetch lands/duals maintains more consistency for maverick. Don't you think cradles is a win more card for maverick? Coz if you can produce alot of mana with cradle that means you have enough board presence to win you the game even without the cradle.

Even having cradle be a Sol Land or even a 3 mana producer can dig you out of a hole, Having a mom, DRS, and Stoneforge on the field with only a land or 2 on the board from a Wasteland war wont really get you anywhere, being able to drop a land and then toss out a scooze plus an activation or a Ramunap plus holding up scryb ranger is really good.

ET1
11-16-2017, 12:57 AM
I think the biggest advantage that cradle has is how explosive it can be in any stage of the game after the 1st turn. My favorite lines are playing a 1 drop turn 1 into another 1 drop + cradle + 2 or 3 drop on turn two. Or just being able to use knight to generate a ton of mana to both cast and equip equipment.

Drkmaverick
11-16-2017, 07:00 AM
So i guess maverick do really need gaea's cradle

Fatal
11-16-2017, 08:10 AM
I guess i need cradle's haha. I just thought playing maze of ith or extra fetch lands/duals maintains more consistency for maverick. Don't you think cradles is a win more card for maverick? Coz if you can produce alot of mana with cradle that means you have enough board presence to win you the game even without the cradle.

Partly agree it can be win more, but:
- it also provide edge over good players when 1 vs 2 mana mean cast and equip SOFI which gives you a Victory
- it provide option when you have Knight and making geddon via wastelands with Scryb Ranger, then you left 1 land and can't cast spells while opponent cast some blocker vs which you don't have answer (for example Strix or TNN), without Cradle you can't rebuild / answer this defending thread.

On the other side:
Cradle isn't good vs heavy tempo oriented meta (RUG/BUG/Grixis specially with stifles) with a lot of removal. It will be mostly a dead card since your board presence will mean -> you already win.

Adding conclusion about Gaea's Cradle to Utility Lands post.

Drkmaverick
11-16-2017, 08:22 AM
Got it! What can you guys say about isaac sears list(channelfireball 4k 98players 3-4 place): no cradles hes using maze of ith.
23 LANDS
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
24 CREATURES
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
9 INSTANTS and SORC.
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 OTHER SPELLS
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
SIDEBOARD
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Choke
1 Engineered Plague
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Zealous Persecution

Fatal
11-16-2017, 08:33 AM
Got it! What can you guys say about isaac sears list(channelfireball 4k 98players 3-4 place): no cradles hes using maze of ith.
23 LANDS
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
24 CREATURES
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
9 INSTANTS and SORC.
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 OTHER SPELLS
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
SIDEBOARD
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Choke
1 Engineered Plague
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Zealous Persecution

Nothing special MD (almost stock list with big - 7 cards SFM package), manabase is quite interesting:mostly 2 Scrubland which I don't like since they doesn't give green mana which mean a lot of mulligan at starts. Looks like he need it for SB option with double black.

More interesting on SB: vs midrange blue controls he put on Walkers (Garruk and.. Liliana - which I seen is really a beast against Czech Pile), and little on Choke. It was very light vs D&T and Blade decks like UWR or DeathBlade - no additional answers vs equips or artifacts - only 1 Qasali and 1 Abrupt Decay MD - which I don't like.

More focused on combo matchup - 3 Thoughtseize with 2 Surgical, Sanctum Pralate and 2 Canonist and Needle is really a lot - 9 cards. When combo shrink to 22-25% of meta I think it's more overkill.

Interesting what was plan against Czech Pile to side in/out big equip package mean a lot of targets for K.Command.

burningtower
11-16-2017, 11:56 AM
Hey guys. Recently fell in love with Punishing Maverick as it allows me to sleeve up 2 of my favorite cards, Knight of the Reliquary and Punishing Fire.

My dilemma is that I need to pick up the last few cards for it and I'm not sure which direction to go in. I see some lists lean heavily on SFM + Equipment while others have fewer + some number Thalia.

I just need some advice from those more experienced than I on the whole subject. My meta is quite fair and grindy so Thalia is not at her best BUT I will be taking this list with me to every bigger event in the foreseeable future so I want it to be quite sturdy and built towards the meta at large, rather than my LGS.

In summary, how do you guys feel about Thalia Guardian of Thraben in Punishing Maverick? Is she a SB card for matchups where we don't want pfires but need combo hate? Or is she strong enough to warrant a maindeck appearance?

Thanks in advance for any and all input.

Mr. Nekro
11-17-2017, 01:31 AM
Hey guys. I've been playing Abzan Maverick for about a year now. This deck was my intro to Legacy and I plan on playing it for a long time. I currently revamped my list after listening to a Tom Herzog interview where he said that the consistency of the deck is where its power comes from. I've cut some of the utility one-ofs that usually pop up in lists, but I've tried most things.

My list:

Creatures
(1 Dryad Arbor)
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar

Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library

Artifacts
Umezawa's Jitte
Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp

Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Council's Judgement
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Choke
1 Gaddock Teeg


I've been struggling with the deck recently at my weekly tournament. I'd say my problems stem from not having a ton of experience in the format. I don't really have the chance to get a ton of reps in with the deck, and I feel like I'm sideboarding incorrectly. Could someone help me create a sideboard map for some of the more popular decks in the format? At my local shop, I tend to play against 4-Color Loam, Esper/Jeskai Stoneblade, and Czech Pile with the occasional Elves player.

I'd would appreciate any help and I'm open to any suggestions with either the main deck or sideboard as well.

razamarth
11-17-2017, 07:07 AM
Hi,
This is my casual-legacy maverick deck, regular 4-0, 5-0 on xmage in 1400+ games.
Fun and strong. In previous topic I do some research about silver bullets and sideboard cards.

Creatures (zenith-able):
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Testing in Renegade Rallier slot)
2 Deathrite Shaman (Only 2, he ate all fetch, back to 2 Noble Hierarch)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest (testing in hatebear slot)
2 Noble Hierarch (Leovold, moon efect, opponent DRS)
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth (with others creatures she can do big boom, testing in Sigarda slot)
White Pact:
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Spells:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library

Lands:
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle (back, after ban SDT)
1 Ghost Quarter (back, thanks Ramunap Excavator)
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Council's Judgment
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant (Old school)
1 Engineered Explosives (don't necessary but good card, in mass removal slot like ZP)
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Liliana, the Last Hope (worth a slot, we don't have any unlimited removal like punishing fire, she kill tiny blockers and return killers from grave.
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of Feast and Famine (BUG everywhere is BUG)
2 Thoughtseize

sanderanders
11-17-2017, 07:08 PM
I play a pretty common build but with 1 Tropical Island and 1 Leovold. 5 manadorks, 7 fetches and 2 Sanctum Prelates in the sideboard.

Tonight a friend asked: why don’t you try 2 Meddling Mages sd in stead of the Prelates?

I feel it is worth the shot. What do you think?

Cpt-Qc
11-17-2017, 11:46 PM
I play a pretty common build but with 1 Tropical Island and 1 Leovold. 5 manadorks, 7 fetches and 2 Sanctum Prelates in the sideboard.

Tonight a friend asked: why don’t you try 2 Meddling Mages sd in stead of the Prelates?

I feel it is worth the shot. What do you think?

If you go blue I guess but honestly at that point your manabase is gonna be a mess. For a deck that plans on cutting others off mana and taxing it would be quite ironic to get reverse-taxed :P

sanderanders
11-18-2017, 04:13 AM
If you go blue I guess but honestly at that point your manabase is gonna be a mess. For a deck that plans on cutting others off mana and taxing it would be quite ironic to get reverse-taxed :P

True, but 1WW for Sanctum Prelate isn’t ease either.

I have 4 Zeniths to get 5 manadorks. I have 7 Fetches to get the Trop. I think it will do, because 17 cards lead to that 1 blue mana needed..

I will report back in the future after testing.

Cpt-Qc
11-18-2017, 04:31 AM
True, but 1WW for Sanctum Prelate isn’t ease either.

I have 4 Zeniths to get 5 manadorks. I have 7 Fetches to get the Trop. I think it will do, because 17 cards lead to that 1 blue mana needed..

I will report back in the future after testing.

Getting 1WW is much easier than it seems. Obviously, prelate is at it's best against combo decks and the best colors in your deck against those are white/black since all disruption/taxing effects are in those colors. All green does is put creatures into play so you don't want to do that until you have slowed down your opponent's plan.

In these matchups I found out leading with Scrubland->DRS is often better than leading with green. Of course you don't have that luxury if your starting hand has GSZ/Bird but then again you can get Savannah T1 and Scrub T2 (assuming you have 2 fetches). We don't need to be afraid of land destruction against faster decks so you can go all-out on duals. Unless you're going deeper in U, you'll most likely benefit more from White or Black in the early turns.

I feel like prelate has a much wider range of matchup it can be used in. It also has the benefit of stone cold shutting down some decks like Lands/Omni-Sneak/Tezz (on 2/3/4 respectively) while seriously crippling 90% of legacy decks (like some do with chalice on 1). Mage can slow down decks IF you named the right thing at the right time but it's just 1 card they cannot play. There's also the fact that I don't like UW that much so I might just be biased :laugh:

If you have great success with it I'd be interested in knowing how your matches went down of course. Keep us posted!

pettdan
11-18-2017, 06:32 AM
I'm inclined to agree with Qpt-Qc, when I choose between Meddling Mage and Sanctum Prelate I prefer Prelate since it's more powerful but may choose Mage depending on mana base having trouble with WW or needing blue spells for FoW. Also if I play a list with eg lots of Decays or other low CMC spells the decision swings in favor of Mage. Not much of this should apply to Maverick lists so Prelate is often better, in my analysis. An advantage of Mage is being able to name creatures, this can be relevant vs decks using Walking Ballista for board control or win condition (Food Chain, Bomberman, Eldrazi & Taxes etc) or creature focused decks such as various versions of Eldrazi. Prelate can single-handedly shut down Lands, Omnishow and low-cmc cantrip decks.

Boneflute
11-18-2017, 11:27 AM
Hey guys. Recently fell in love with Punishing Maverick as it allows me to sleeve up 2 of my favorite cards, Knight of the Reliquary and Punishing Fire.

My dilemma is that I need to pick up the last few cards for it and I'm not sure which direction to go in. I see some lists lean heavily on SFM + Equipment while others have fewer + some number Thalia.

I just need some advice from those more experienced than I on the whole subject. My meta is quite fair and grindy so Thalia is not at her best BUT I will be taking this list with me to every bigger event in the foreseeable future so I want it to be quite sturdy and built towards the meta at large, rather than my LGS.

In summary, how do you guys feel about Thalia Guardian of Thraben in Punishing Maverick? Is she a SB card for matchups where we don't want pfires but need combo hate? Or is she strong enough to warrant a maindeck appearance?

Thanks in advance for any and all input.

So here's my 5-0 Punishing Maverick list from a magic online league, dating back to September 20th. Which I stole from this deck list. (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16796&d=303929)


1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Plateau
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills

4 Mother of Runes
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierach
1 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Punishing Fire
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Green Sun's Zenith

SB

1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Sanctum Prelate
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Choke
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Fiery Justice
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter



In hindsight, I wouldn't recommend running only 1 Stoneforge Mystic. the philosophy of the deck adheres to the fact that Deathrite Shaman cannot be depended upon for mana production. That's why this list is running 4 birds of paradise.

I would run 3 Thalia in punishing maverick, despite her lacking synergy with punishing fire. Running two seems tempting, especially considering how frequently you board her out.

I highly recommend running Sword of Feast and Famine, because it provides a faster clock when you have the punishing fire combo. Allowing you to untap your lands, and potentially clock your opponent out sooner.

If you don't run Choke in the sideboard in your Maverick deck, I would HIGHLY consider it. It's my favorite magic card.

Fatal
11-19-2017, 04:47 AM
I'm surprised on that list that you cut Umezawa's Jitte. Why?

Boneflute
11-19-2017, 09:35 AM
I'm surprised on that list that you cut Umezawa's Jitte. Why?

That's a mistake. Sorry. It was:
-1 Wooded foothills
+Jitte

Cutting Jitte would be insanity.

Cpt-Qc
11-19-2017, 09:49 AM
Cutting Jitte would be insanity.

Wiser words have never been spoken.

Thunderknight
11-19-2017, 10:47 PM
Just got back from SCG Baltimore. I got 9th Place at the classic with this list. I'll write a Tournament Report By tomorrow night.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=117478

Fatal
11-21-2017, 04:47 PM
I have tested 2x Liliana, the Last Hope on with two Mana sources - Bayou and Scrubland.
Here are the results:
Played against:
Grixis Delver x2, Elves, 2x Czech pile, UW miracle, and mirror.
I board it in every matchup and it was very good, gave me victory 3 times but her own. I found that it require one more black source to be enough to cast. I recommended second bayou, but it depends on build(running mom less, mid sfm package(5), with a lot (3) CA creatures like tracker or railler addition to core. Hugh advantage of Liliana was that it growth additional to removal which is enough to tick her to ultimate. For example I also test Garruk Rentless and big Nissa. Both was solid but wasn't so good as Liliana.
Walkers is another route to fight overwhelming removal from mid-range Czech pile decks.

Thunderknight
11-22-2017, 07:22 PM
Tournament Report
11.22.2017
Event: SCG Baltimore Legacy Classic
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=117478

Round 1: Dredge (Win, 1-0)
G1: Nothing to much here. Resolve an early Deathrite Shaman to slowly remove Ichorids. I GSZ for Teeg just in case they were on MD Dread Return. Opponent ran out of cards to dredge
when I was at 2 life.

G2: Crop Rotated for Bojuka Bog.

Round 2: Death and Taxes (Drew, 1-0-1)
G1: I couldn’t remove Serra Avenger quick enough. I conceded the match to try to gain more time in G2
G2: Won with T4 making my 20/20. Punishing Fire goes a long way in this match.
G3: When Time was called, I had equipped a Reclamation Sage to a Sword of Fire and Ice. If I had two more turns, I would have won that game.


Round 3: BR Reanimator (Lost, 1-1-1)
G1 and G2: Turn 1 Sire to kill me 4 turns later.


Round 4: Tin Fins (Won, 2-1-1)
G1: My opponent won the die roll, T1 Faithless Looting – discarding Children of Korlis and Tendrills of Agony. (Internal Screaming). I somehow Won that game with Deathrite and Scavenging Ooze.
G2: My opponent T1 Dark Ritual, Liliana the Last Veil. I discards a plowshares to try to keep Knight in hand. After a couple of turns, I crop rotated for Thespian Stage to make Marit Lage and attack.


Round 5: 4c Leovold (Won, 3-1-1)
G1: There’s going to a lot of time where I’m going to say that I won on T4 or T5 with Marit Lage. This is one of them
G2: This is another of those I won on T4 or T5 with Marit Lage.


Round 6: Death and Taxes (Won, 4-1-1)
G1: I established an Early Punishing Fire Lock, picking off moms, Thalia, Stoneforge, etc. My opponent concedes.
G2: I made a 20/20 on T4 or T5. I had mom Back up protection.


Round 7: Bant Deathblade (Won, 5-1-1)
G1: 2 True Names are really bad to deal with. I found that you can race one of them, not two of them.
G2: I had that match lock between Choke and Excavator – Wasteland Lock
G3. I keep all lands, exception being Crop Rotation and Sword of Fire and Ice. I know my opponent bring back Force of Will, so I had to bait it out. They were land screwed for a while. I found a Punishing Fire started removing the mana dorks. My opponent conceded after I wasteland the third time.


I was convinced that I top 8, only to found out that I got 9th. I can’t blame anyone or myself. I felt that I played reasonably and made sub-optimal plays. Maybe for the next tournament I drop the Choke and add in Surgicals or another Combo-Hate piece. Who knows. Until next time.

Rascalyote
11-24-2017, 08:48 PM
I have tested 2x Liliana, the Last Hope on with two Mana sources - Bayou and Scrubland.
Here are the results:
Played against:
Grixis Delver x2, Elves, 2x Czech pile, UW miracle, and mirror.
I board it in every matchup and it was very good, gave me victory 3 times but her own. I found that it require one more black source to be enough to cast. I recommended second bayou, but it depends on build(running mom less, mid sfm package(5), with a lot (3) CA creatures like tracker or railler addition to core. Hugh advantage of Liliana was that it growth additional to removal which is enough to tick her to ultimate. For example I also test Garruk Rentless and big Nissa. Both was solid but wasn't so good as Liliana.
Walkers is another route to fight overwhelming removal from mid-range Czech pile decks.

I've been playing without mom's, Garruk main deck, and 2 Liliana's + a swamp in the sideboard. It's been real swell (just bayou//scrub main for B lands).

SellaNona
11-27-2017, 12:30 AM
Recently started playing Legacy again. Trying to adjust my Maverick list to the current meta. My locals has seen a real upsurge in Miracles players (went from one dedicated guy to 4-5 of em). Other than that people mostly play Stoneblade and Delver variants (mainly Grixis). There's also a bunch of miscellaneous 1-of decks floating around like Lands, 4c Loam, Eldrazi Stompy, and that one guy that maxed out Death and Taxes and will never let the deck go.

My current list (have yet to playtest, just tweaked it after a tourney) is:

Creatures (25)
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Deathrite Shaman
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Mother of Runes
2x Dark Confidant
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Dryad Arbor

Spells (14)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sylvan Library

Lands (21)
4x Windswept Heath
3x Marsh Flats
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Bayou
2x Plains
2x Forest
4x Wasteland
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas

Sideboard:
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Sanctum Prelate
1x Faerie Macabre
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Containment Priest
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Council's Judgment
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Pithing Needle
1x Batterskull
2x Choke

The deck has been doing alright so far (I'm not that great at piloting it):

At a Friday locals I went 1-2 (lost round 1 to lands, could have won game 2 but I was starving and wanted to get Subway. won round 2 against Stax, they drew nothing but ramp game 1, beat me game 2, and lost to Thalia beatdown game 3. Lost round 3 to some mono-black vampire meme deck because the guy just kept dropping cheap deathtouch creatures until he had enough mana to cast the big boys).

Today I went 1-2 again (beat Elves round 1, but the elves player was really inexperienced. I think at one point they let me wasteland loop them with Ramunap like 5 turns in a row while they had an active Deathrite on board. Lost round 2 to Eldrazi, they opened godhand both games, not much I could do. Lost round 3 to miracles. Probably could have mulled better games 1 and 3).

I know the manabase is subpar. I'd love to throw in another dual and a cradle (and swap out marsh flats for verdant catacombs- I only run flats because I pulled them) but I don't have the money for that right now. Although it's not optimal it's been serviceable so far and I don't feel too bad about running 4 basics since the local Miracles players seem to think maining back to basics is an ok thing to do to a human being.

I'm mostly wondering about:

Bob: I haven't seen him in too many lists. I run him because he's great against Miracles. Do you guys think he's worth some slots or nah?
Stoneforge Package: Right now I have a 3/3 split of Stoneforge/Equips, but I've considered lowering it to 2/2 (taking out the Sword of Light and Shadow, probably siding it).
Sided Batterskull: I don't run it main because it ends up dead a lot. I mainly have it in the side to bring in vs. Miracles since the matchup is grindy enough for me to reliably get enough mana to cast/recast it. That being said it could go out for something else.
Sylvan Safekeeper: I haven't had great experiences with this card but I could be playing it entirely wrong. What are your guys experience with it and how does it generally earn its slot? (I don't have it in the list right now).
Maze of Ith: I have mixed feelings on this one mainly because it hasn't been useful at all lately and drawing it opening hand can sometimes suck.

Reasons I'm not running
Thoughtseize: I ran it at two and didn't see it nearly enough to justify it. It might work more at four but I'm really hesitant to run a full playset.
Dark Depths + Stage: Depths ended up clogging hands a lot, and I also developed an unhealthy habit of tunnel visioning hard for Merit Lage.

The changes I've been considering are
-2 Bob -1 Stoneforge -1 light and shadow
+1 Tireless Tracker +1 Birds of Paradise +1 Safekeeper +1 flex slot (probably a Rallier)
I'll probably move Batterskull out of the side and replace it with Light and Shadow.

I sort of want to try the Punishing variant but I don't have red duals, RIP.

pettdan
11-27-2017, 05:17 AM
@SellaNona: I'll provide my perspective on these cards, but you can expect differing views. I thought I'd provide a quick comment but it quickly turns rather comprehensive, still there are more things to consider and discuss. I hope this provides at least some useful input for you. I'll reread the text a third time later.


I'm mostly wondering about:

Bob: I haven't seen him in too many lists. I run him because he's great against Miracles. Do you guys think he's worth some slots or nah?

I would prefer Tireless Tracker over Bob. It can be GSZ-ed for, it grows while drawing cards, if you have an active KotR you can use it to get a fetch for double clues in response to any removal while Bob would not be able to draw you any cards. However, Tracker does benefit from Gaea's Cradle. I would at least play a single Tracker over the second Confidant for the GSZ interaction. When Miracles was hot I was testing Confidant but moved to Tracker, it was pretty good in the matchup but I still couldn't usually beat CB+top, Terminus and Jace. That should be more doable now, I guess, but if Miracles is a problem you can probably look into a few other ways to combat them too. Like planeswalkers, Bitterblossom and Titania can all put pressure on the opponent and combat Jace and Terminus. Gaddock fights Entreat, though it's an uphill battle, and Engineered Plague can keep Mentor in check (but often you don't know if they play Mentor at all, so it can be hard to board in). Sword of Light and Shadow equipped onto a Dryad Arbor is a good way to pressure Miracles, since you can fetch it back at EOT after they Terminus to keep pressure up. Sword of L&S equipped to Gaddock Teeg is pretty great too.


Stoneforge Package: Right now I have a 3/3 split of Stoneforge/Equips, but I've considered lowering it to 2/2 (taking out the Sword of Light and Shadow, probably siding it).

Stoneforge is often played as a 2/2 with equipment in Dark Maverick, I think most lists playing more than that tend to be Punishing lists. With the increased usage of Kolaghan's Command I went down to 1 Stoneforge even, and I rely on Renegade Rallier to get back the Jitte. But like commented above Sword of L&S could be great vs Miracles so I think you could try 2 Stoneforge 3 equipment. [Edit: reading your questions again, yes, it seems ok in the sideboard to bring in vs Miracles, D&T, perhaps Marit Lage-decks, anything where you want recursion of Qasali Pridemage, larger creatures or lifegain]


Sided Batterskull: I don't run it main because it ends up dead a lot. I mainly have it in the side to bring in vs. Miracles since the matchup is grindy enough for me to reliably get enough mana to cast/recast it. That being said it could go out for something else.

Batterskull is fine vs Miracles, it's a recastable threat which is good but they can usually easily fight him off with an active Jace, throwing Snapcasters for chumpblocking, Swordsing and eventually countering when you try to recast it. It's crucial to be able to fight their resolved Jaces and Batterskull isn't in my experience very good at that. Batterskull is pretty great vs Eldrazi, I think I might sideboard it if Eldrazi is on the rise but Engineered Plague does a similar good job of fighting Eldrazi and it can help vs Elves which is usually a tougher matchup. I wouldn't sideboard Batterskull currently, I think.


Sylvan Safekeeper: I haven't had great experiences with this card but I could be playing it entirely wrong. What are your guys experience with it and how does it generally earn its slot? (I don't have it in the list right now).

I prefer him when/if playing Titania, Protector of Argoth [edit: who by the way requires Cradle] and Ramunap Excavator, but I havn't played him much and am also unconvinced. With those two cards in the list there is I feel a higher ceiling for how useful the card can be. Gaddock with Olle Rĺde, or Sylvan Safekeeper, can be pretty good vs Miracles since it shuts down most of their deck, you can try it but be aware of Council's Judgment after which they can Terminus your board away, and don't attack with Gaddock into a blocking Snapcaster.


Maze of Ith: I have mixed feelings on this one mainly because it hasn't been useful at all lately and drawing it opening hand can sometimes suck.

If TNN and Young Pyromancer are relatively common in your meta then I wouldn't play Maze of Ith. It's also quite bad vs Miracles. I wouldn't maindeck it, either way, and I think Engineered Plague is actually a good answer vs both TNN and Young Pyromancer while also helping out vs Elves, D&T, TES, Eldrazi, Monastery Mentor, the new Humans deck, Merfolk, Slivers, random Thopter Foundry combo, et cetera. Maze is good (better than Plague) I guess vs Marit Lage, Reanimator and Delver, but I think StP already does a good job vs those.

AT87
11-27-2017, 08:25 AM
Hi to all community.
I'm a new player for Punishing Maverick deck; I will play the list :

Have you a Spreadsheet of "side" complete? Or do you know what to put up and take off (on the play and on the draw) against these actually deck?

Thanks.

AT87
11-27-2017, 08:32 AM
This is the my ideal decck

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/legacy-punishing-maverick-37091#paper

Thanks

SellaNona
11-27-2017, 01:53 PM
@pettdan

Thanks for the response! Your reasoning was clear and very helpful.

Seems like not having a Cradle is screwing me out of a lot of interesting techs/play lines, which is a shame. Sort of makes me want to buy one, but at the same time, I could pick up a Taiga, Plateau, Groves, Foothills, and the other odds and ends necessary for Punishing Maverick for less ;-;

pettdan
11-27-2017, 02:34 PM
@pettdan

Thanks for the response! Your reasoning was clear and very helpful.

Seems like not having a Cradle is screwing me out of a lot of interesting techs/play lines, which is a shame. Sort of makes me want to buy one, but at the same time, I could pick up a Taiga, Plateau, Groves, Foothills, and the other odds and ends necessary for Punishing Maverick for less ;-;

You are welcome! Check the primer too, it's quite new. You can play without Cradle, but it has advantages.

Stuart
11-27-2017, 04:46 PM
My locals has seen a real upsurge in Miracles players (went from one dedicated guy to 4-5 of em). Other than that people mostly play Stoneblade and Delver variants (mainly Grixis).

In the meta you're describing, a 4th Thalia and a 4th Mom sound pretty strong to me. I'd consider cutting the Bobs for them. I'd also like to see a 2nd Pridemage; maybe move Scooze to the board (you don't have a Cradle to let it go insane) or cut an Abrupt Decay (they fill similar roles).

Has 21 lands been enough for you? I think of 22-23 being the sweet spot, but who knows.

SellaNona
11-27-2017, 05:33 PM
@Stuart

I have been considering a second pridemage.

How good is Thalia in the miracles matchup? I know it seems like a weird question, but they accumulate so many lands over the course of the game and can generally grind well enough that it's been hard for me to kill em early.

I feel like Scooze is maybe worth it even without cradle just because it's grave disruption, which seems decent since I do see a decent amount of Deathrites.

Drkmaverick
11-28-2017, 05:17 AM
is the single noble hierarch in most of the list i see really that important? i guess its your 5th mana dork? my maverick list is playing 4 stoneforges and 3 equips with batterskull mainboard. if ever i play single noble hierarch the hierarch will take the 4th stoneforge place. i play isaac sears 75 more or less. thanks guys!

pettdan
11-28-2017, 07:47 AM
is the single noble hierarch in most of the list i see really that important? i guess its your 5th mana dork? my maverick list is playing 4 stoneforges and 3 equips with batterskull mainboard. if ever i play single noble hierarch the hierarch will take the 4th stoneforge place. i play isaac sears 75 more or less. thanks guys!

Like you can see in the primer it is common to play 4-5 mana dorks. Since there are 4 GSZ's and 1 Dryad Arbor it is actually a question of if you want to run 8 or 9 copies of virtual mana dorks, and if you want to be able to keep a GSZ in your starting hand or fire it off for ramping. In a punishing list, which I guess you're playing, mana seems more important so having complements to Deathrite that generate mana regardless of the graveyard or opposing Deathrites makes some more sense, also having a higher number of them. Suppose your opponent plays a t1 Deathrite and you get to GSZ on your t2, you would then rather get a Noble Hierarch if you need the mana. It also opens the ability to GSZ for 1 to get an exalted trigger, perhaps you have a Scryb Ranger or BoP in play and want to hit a planeswalker, this is a corner case where you would want a Noble Hierarch. Someone else could comment on if it is required in a punishing list, but in Dark Maverick I wouldn't consider a 5th mana dork mandatory. You can play 4 Deathrites and increase your threat density instead. That's what I have usually been doing the last 2 years or so.

Thunderknight
11-28-2017, 10:59 PM
Hi to all community.
I'm a new player for Punishing Maverick deck; I will play the list :

Have you a Spreadsheet of "side" complete? Or do you know what to put up and take off (on the play and on the draw) against these actually deck?

Thanks.

Currently the SB Guide is down for Punishing Maverick (I"m taking the assumption that you are using my 9th place list). It will be up by Friday. Until then i recommend goldfising yourself to see the lines of play.

Thunderknight
11-28-2017, 11:03 PM
is the single noble hierarch in most of the list i see really that important? i guess its your 5th mana dork? my maverick list is playing 4 stoneforges and 3 equips with batterskull mainboard. if ever i play single noble hierarch the hierarch will take the 4th stoneforge place. i play isaac sears 75 more or less. thanks guys!

Regarding Punishing Maverick mana base. I strongly recommend running 5 dorks. The reason being is because the deck starves for mana in the early turns, and thus you need to be able to have turn 1 dork. I run 3 DRS, 1 BOP, and 1 NH, and I haven't had any serious mana issues. NP isn't a requirement, but NP exalted trigger sometimes comes up with damage.

Mr. Nekro
11-28-2017, 11:37 PM
Has anyone tried any number of Lingering Souls? It's not exactly in the spirit of the deck and its pretty bad in a DRS heavy meta, but I was considering it.

SellaNona
11-29-2017, 03:02 AM
I'm switching off of Dark Maverick for a while to try Punishing Maverick instead. Although I will miss having Decays for the Miracles matchup, I feel that the Grove/Pfire package more than makes up for them.

Played in 4-round locals. Sadly went 0-4.

Lost first round to Eldrazi. While I did go 0-2 at least the games were a lot closer than they were before (ultimately we had even boardstates then both went into topdeck wars and my opponent topdecked creatures because, well, Eldrazi).

I lost round 2 to a Pyromancer deck. Game 1 I got run out of resources pretty quickly and lost to Gurmag Angler after they bolted my Scryb Ranger (which had been bouncing Arbor to fog it). I lost game 2 because once again I was unable to find an out to Gurmag. 0-2'd again.

I went 1-2 game 3 vs. Death and Taxes. Lost game 1 because I just got outvalued and wasn't able to drop any meaningful creatures. Won game 2 off of Sword of Light and Shadow and Engineered Plague naming humans. I almost won game 3 (I was off by a single Deathrite activation, had my opponent at 1 life) but got beaten down by three Flickerwhisps (sadly didn't see my Plague this game).

I went 0-2 against what I believe was four-color control. I didn't really play out the second game because my opponent was starting to remind me why I stopped going to Yu-Gi-Oh regionals and I honestly wasn't enjoying the game.

Overall I think that I sided very badly which was a contributing factor to my losses. Round 1 was okay, not really much for me to side in vs Eldrazi. I don't remember exactly how I sided round 2. Round 3 is where I really fucked up by siding out Dryad Arbor and Scryb Ranger rather than siding out Thalias (which I somehow forgot I'm supposed to do vs. Taxes). Scryb Ranger would have chumped a Flickerwhisp and won me game 3. Round 4 I messed up by forgetting I had sided out Dryad Arbor again (I think I brought in like 8 sideboard cards).

I'm really starting to feel the lack of Dark Depths especially against Eldrazi (the only time I've beaten the deck when they open well is by rushing it). I don't really like playing Depths because I tend to tunnel vision into making the Merit Lage token, but when I do pick up the pieces for Punishing Maverick it's gonna be in the main with some crop rotations in the side.

menloe
11-29-2017, 03:20 PM
I'm really starting to feel the lack of Dark Depths especially against Eldrazi (the only time I've beaten the deck when they open well is by rushing it). I don't really like playing Depths because I tend to tunnel vision into making the Merit Lage token, but when I do pick up the pieces for Punishing Maverick it's gonna be in the main with some crop rotations in the side.

Depths is too sick not to run. I play it in all versions of Maverick. Obviously, Gaea's Cradle is my favorite card ever, but I like having access to a game ending combo that can be tutored when an opponent is over-committed to whatever bullshit non-Mav players get into these days. Just don't be too obvious.

I definitely feel your pain RE tunnel vision. You will learn the spots.

menloe
11-29-2017, 03:32 PM
Has anyone tried any number of Lingering Souls? It's not exactly in the spirit of the deck and its pretty bad in a DRS heavy meta, but I was considering it.

Can I ask what you would consider cutting for Lingering Souls? I can't think of a situation where I'd rather see a coupla spirit tokens over ______ Maverick card, at least in the main deck. I should mention that I have no imagination when it comes to MTG cards so you should try it and see what happens.

Also, unrelated to Nekro's post here, shout out to the new Maverick player I played against on the MTGO last night. I enjoyed our multi-13/13 KotR grind fest/stare down that I almost timed out of immensely.

SellaNona
11-29-2017, 08:31 PM
Traded off all of my spare stuff to pick up Taiga, Plateau, Groves, Foothills, Depths and a bunch of other miscellaneous stuff. I also had enough left over to get non-foil knights and stoneforges (my knights in particular were pretty warped).

I netdecked Thunderknight's 9th place list. Played some test games against Shardless BUG. Went pretty well overall, Marit Lage token won me two games that would have been extremely hard to play through without it. I lost one game because I didn't mull when I should have and got mana screwed and another to Jace + Liliana.

Mr. Nekro
11-29-2017, 10:30 PM
Can I ask what you would consider cutting for Lingering Souls? I can't think of a situation where I'd rather see a coupla spirit tokens over ______ Maverick card, at least in the main deck. I should mention that I have no imagination when it comes to MTG cards so you should try it and see what happens.

I really don't know. Maybe SB for a grindier matchup? An Esper Deathblade player suggested it, and even though Maverick and Deathblade are different decks, I wondered if there was any merit to the suggestion. I've played a lot of Abzan in Modern so maybe I have some bias to the card, haha.

SellaNona
11-30-2017, 12:10 AM
I guess the question is really how necessary it is. Scryb Ranger is already a decent flyer for us to stick an equipment on, which would be the main use for it imho.

Stuart
11-30-2017, 10:02 AM
Hey guys, shameless plug: the podcast I'm a member of just did an episode on Knight of the Reliquary and, by extension, Maverick. Give it a listen if podcasts are your thing. None of us are experts, so you guys might disagree with some of our points, but it was fun to spend 90 minutes chatting about Knight decks.

I posted it in Format & Article Discussion, but it's also on our website! (http://lonestarlhurgoyfs.com/2017-11-29-Podcast-Austin-Knights/)

SellaNona
12-02-2017, 02:54 AM
Is there really anything we can do about Omnitell when they open well? I played against it at locals today and got 2-0'd since they had Show and Tell + Omniscience and a threat both games by turn 2-3 which is pretty godly (last time I played against the deck a few months ago they opened meh both games and the games took long enough for me to at least get a foothold).

I feel like even post-sideboard all I could really do was hope they didn't open great and kill me too fast.

pettdan
12-02-2017, 04:15 AM
Is there really anything we can do about Omnitell when they open well? I played against it at locals today and got 2-0'd since they had Show and Tell + Omniscience and a threat both games by turn 2-3 which is pretty godly (last time I played against the deck a few months ago they opened meh both games and the games took long enough for me to at least get a foothold).

I feel like even post-sideboard all I could really do was hope they didn't open great and kill me too fast.

In g1 Thalia, in play or being put into play by the Show and Tell, forces them to have Emrakul, if they are tapped out and don't have Emrakul you can untap and GSZ for Qasali to blow it up safely. If they have [edited, Omni into] Emrakul you need an active knight and a Qasali in play or hand to show in, blow up Omniscience with and tutor for Karakas, bouncing it. Thalia in addition to k+q stops any cunning wish-interaction. Of course this can be hard to set up by turn 2-3. Wasteland + Thalia can potentially slow them down. [edit: and like qpt-qc says, they can of course show in Emrakul directly, maybe it should be assumed on t2 of a game. You asked what you could do vs Show into Omni, my interpretation, but what you should do is a bit of a separate discussion, and it may depend on if you know what you are up against]

In g2, Ethersworn Canonist kept in hand forces them to pass the turn after S&T, but they get to Fow your response so you need Thalia too. Thoughtseize or REB are very valuable too, for interaction from turn one. Reclamation Sage, sometimes boarded, can work like Qasali above, coupled with knight it can stop Emrakul and coupled with Thalia it can stop Release the Ants.

Edit: and like qpt-qc said Sanctum Prelate from the board stops a lot at three

Cpt-Qc
12-02-2017, 04:15 AM
Not really no, it's one of our worst MU. Best you can hope for is T1 thoughtseize + Surgical, T2 thalia (and it's not countered). I've had games where I had Teeg, Thalia + Canonist in play but that still does nothing to Sneak Attack being cheated into play.

We don't have many tools to shut down SnT-> Omniscience or SnT->Sneak. If your opponent is dumb and SnT->Emmy, you can bring in KoTr and find karakas but even SnT->Grisel means you're done for since they'll inevitably draw into another threat.

I prefer choosing KoTr to a hatebear when they go off but if you have time to cast stuff Prelate helps a lot. It still isn't a great mu but it brings it closer to 40/60.

Rascalyote
12-02-2017, 05:11 AM
Another random tip that rarely comes up - If you have enchantment destruction when they Show and Tell you can put in a stoneforge (or some other enter play trigger) to play around Omni -> Emrakul because the enters play trigger will make it so they don't have priority and an empty stack after Show and Tell resolves. This of course loses if they just put in the emrakul but if you have nothing else going on you can try that line. I still board out my stoneforge package 9/10 times though, bringing in Surgicals, Canonists, Revokers, and Golgari Charm.

SellaNona
12-02-2017, 05:26 AM
Guess It's an extra hard matchup for me since I'm on punishing Maverick and don't have much in the way of mana tax/hand disruption :/

I've been getting super unlucky when it comes to matches, I always get paired with combo for some reason.

pettdan
12-02-2017, 05:49 AM
Guess It's an extra hard matchup for me since I'm on punishing Maverick and don't have much in the way of mana tax/hand disruption :/

I've been getting super unlucky when it comes to matches, I always get paired with combo for some reason.

Putting in Canonist off S&T and then REB-ing is an option, but hard to mulligan into both. Both cards are relevant by themselves though. Edit: but of course that doesn't help against Show and Tell into Emrakul, better off rebbing the S&T probably.

Thunderknight
12-02-2017, 10:59 AM
Guess It's an extra hard matchup for me since I'm on punishing Maverick and don't have much in the way of mana tax/hand disruption :/

I've been getting super unlucky when it comes to matches, I always get paired with combo for some reason.

When I played aganist SnT at the Team Open, I only won one game because I was able to bounce back griselbrand from putting in karakas.
It is 100% the worst matchup for Punishing Maverick. The speed that they have, the threats that they put down, we just can't deal. If there was a revoker that you could green sun. I think it would help out a bit.

The best way to combat that deck is ALWAYS assume that they have the SnT+ Omni. THeres not much you can do game 1. But G2/G3 you have Crop rate, REB, Canonist, Sigarda. In this matchup, I will say that Thalia will be better than canonist 9/10 of the time. The reason why I'm not running Thalia was because I focused more on gaining more win percentages on the 50/50 matchups (Burn, Eldrazi, etc).

TLDR: SnT is our worse match-up. Don't focus too much on this matchup trying to beat it, unless your meta is combo heavy, in which case change SB accordingly.

tescrin
12-02-2017, 11:38 AM
IMO, SneakShow *without* Omni is pretty weak to both Mav and D&T; I'd consider it a great MU. But yeah, with Omni it's a whole bag. Fact is, Omni is tech specifically to shit on non-blue countermeasures.

The REBs seem like a good idea; but honestly I wouldn't fret it too much. These players are trading win percentages against Blue decks for win percentages against D&T and Mav; I imagine natural selection weeds them out specifically for choosing a plan that is optimal against a smaller chunk of the field. It's perfectly fine to lose to a deck that has a decent chunk of it's strategy tailored to fight yours. You may say "it's only 3-4 cards though!", but I'd point out that running 3 Zealous Persecutions maindeck will screw up a specific subset of the field quite badly, while losing you games against Goyf decks. It's the same thing, just very different cards/interactions.

SellaNona
12-02-2017, 10:22 PM
True. I guess I just have to start hoping that I actually get matched against Blue decks for once, or at least fairer matchups. There aren't too many combo players (I think there are only 2 or so omnitell players) but somehow I always end up paired against em round 1 :/

Dreadnaught33
12-02-2017, 11:33 PM
Hey guys- How do you all feel about maelstrom pulse in the board as more help getting rid of Jace and other annoying permanents? I've run into some red prison decks with multiple bridges and blood moons, etc. and it seems like it would be good there too. Obviously, being able to get countered sucks though. Is Council's Judgement just better? Any other cards to consider? I'm primarily on dark maverick but also have punishing, so cards in either/both decks are welcomed.

tescrin
12-03-2017, 03:07 AM
Hey guys- How do you all feel about maelstrom pulse in the board as more help getting rid of Jace and other annoying permanents? I've run into some red prison decks with multiple bridges and blood moons, etc. and it seems like it would be good there too. Obviously, being able to get countered sucks though. Is Council's Judgement just better? Any other cards to consider? I'm primarily on dark maverick but also have punishing, so cards in either/both decks are welcomed.

Megadeus is probably the only one who'd agree with me, but I'd consider Vindicate if you're looking at 3-mana sorceries. Mav already targets your mana base with fetchable wastelands, Thalias, and potentially Ranumap. Having a Vindi handy to pop the basic they got out seems ok. I know the DGA guys will often run 1-2 of 'em just to get the occasional manascrew on an opponent.

If you're trying to specifically get Blood Moon or Bridges, Decay seems a safer bet since it's faster, instant speed, and more useful against the field in the general case, but there's nothing wrong with Pulse outside of the obvious. For Jace I think I'd rather have Bitterblossom or Lingering Souls lying around, but for everything else I'd look to a card that is more specific and better mana cost/card type.

Side Note: how many QPM are you running? Is Jace the main reason you wouldn't just up the number of QPM? QPM is less weak to counterspells (creature counters are uncommon by comparison to non-creature, and costing 2 leaves you less open to daze) while QPM also ups the threat-density of the deck.

Megadeus
12-03-2017, 04:26 PM
Also pulse killing moon seems unlikely since you probably don't have a basic swamp. Decay is better because you can float mana. The best answer to moon is fetching a basic forest and using green Sun to find pride mage. As for Jace it sucks. I ran To the Slaughter in my GB Eldrazi deck and it was great for nugging a walker or marit Lage

Fatal
12-03-2017, 04:30 PM
Hey guys- How do you all feel about maelstrom pulse in the board as more help getting rid of Jace and other annoying permanents? I've run into some red prison decks with multiple bridges and blood moons, etc. and it seems like it would be good there too. Obviously, being able to get countered sucks though. Is Council's Judgement just better? Any other cards to consider? I'm primarily on dark maverick but also have punishing, so cards in either/both decks are welcomed.

Pulse is probably last permanent resolver which I would bring in. As metion before Vindicate is much better since it also hit lands, which can give edge if your tax plan goes good. In my opinion best catch all answer is Council's Judgement since it also hit shroud/hexproof/TNN things. Anyway I don't think Maverick require this kind of spells, since cmc = 3 is too much in legacy to do 1 for 1, specially with Thalia in play. So I would rather use cheaper and more specialized tools like Ancient Grudge if you running r splash or Golgari Charm.

If you have problems with walkers better try some haste green creatures with trample/qasi trample, which can also stay on battlefield after. From my research best here are Timbermare since It can also attack over any wall (like TNN) or tokens, or even big thread like Angler. But it's still very narrow and can be dead card, sidenote works perfect with Scryb Ranger, if opponent "hold fort" with TNN / tokens just GSZ for Timbermare and then untap Knight for lethal.

Megadeus
12-03-2017, 09:52 PM
I'm a fan of Captain tickles as a hasty green Sun target. Giant Solifuge

shallowend
12-04-2017, 05:24 AM
Top 4'd local legacy monthly yesterday (with some kind breakers).

My takeaway - Tireless tracker is too slow. I added it to the sideboard as a card advantage engine but it's just not good enough. I think Ramunap Excavator probably generates more raw cards and with a wasteland/horizon canopy or dryad arbour opens a lot of options for defensive play.

Thalia, Heretic cathar did a lot of work. Was put in to slow down greedy mana decks (4c/delever) but the splash damage against haste creatures from dredge and sneak attack as well as dominating most fair combats has put this card firmly into my 75 for a while.




Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

Mr. Nekro
12-05-2017, 02:56 PM
So I changed my deck up a bit this week for my local and went 2-2. Feels pretty good since I've been playing pretty miserably with this great deck for a few weeks.

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar

1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp

3 Thoughtseize
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Council's Judgement
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Containment Priest
1 Abrupt Decay

I beat Nic Fit and Storm, and I lost to Eldrazi and Taxes and Colorless 12-Post. One of the funnier interactions was against Storm. I had a Deathrite Shaman and a Gaddock Teeg on board. I played a Stoneforge Mystic looking for a Sofi and had a Scrubland up. My opponent bounced my Teeg. On his turn he Ad Nauseum'ed down to 1. I went to activate the DRS, and he scooped. After the game, he said he hadn't played Storm in a while and completely overlooked the Shaman.

Oathbreakers
12-06-2017, 03:03 PM
Question about planeswalkers

I noticed I see less Garruk Relentless and more Gideon AoZ, Any specific reason? When do I want the one over the Other. I’m currently on a stock Leovold Maverick List, I feel it’s better positioned in my Local meta of Lands Stoneblade and Linear Combo Decks

tescrin
12-06-2017, 03:42 PM
Question about planeswalkers

I noticed I see less Garruk Relentless and more Gideon AoZ, Any specific reason? When do I want the one over the Other. I’m currently on a stock Leovold Maverick List, I feel it’s better positioned in my Local meta of Lands Stoneblade and Linear Combo Decks

Gideon is better basically 100% of the time, unless you can't cast him. Since mana isn't being punished as much currently the WW doesn't keep him out of the deck. Elspeth is pretty good too, but it's telling that people are choosing Gideon; because Gideon is much much better at killing Jace; where Elspeth is better at getting around TNN.

Use Garruk if you find yourself with Gideon stuck in hand due to WW a lot (or improve your manabase.) Use Gideon if you find yourself losing to Jace a lot. Use Elspeth if you find yourself stuck behind TNN a lot (flying is really good; and KotR being a 5/5 Flyer before you count your lands is ridiculous.)

I'd rather use Elspeth myself a lot of the time; but Gideon's clock is nothing to be sniffed at.

ipvitk
12-07-2017, 04:35 AM
Liste Top8 Main Event Nebraska’s War 5.0
292 players
2-3 dec. 2017

6th place - Maverick di Alexey Romanchuk

Maindeck: (61)
1 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Thespian’s Stage
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

1 Abrupt Decay
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

SB: (15)
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution

timmyod17
12-07-2017, 09:10 AM
Question for all the Punishing players in the room.

I see that most lists don't play Thalia in the main, and some don't even run her in the SB. How do you deal with combo (particularly storm and sneak/show)? I would feel so underprepared for those matchups, and they aren't exactly fringe decks.

menloe
12-07-2017, 09:51 AM
Question for all the Punishing players in the room.

I see that most lists don't play Thalia in the main, and some don't even run her in the SB. How do you deal with combo (particularly storm and sneak/show)? I would feel so underprepared for those matchups, and they aren't exactly fringe decks.

Pray to whatever gods you worship. Joking aside, you still have access to x2 Teeg father at a minimum (1 main, 1 side), and most lists run some number of Cannonists or Prelates in the side. This is enough hate to put up a decent fight games 2 & 3. However, you will always be at a disadvantage since you have to win both sideboard games, which is all the more challenging because the combo player generally knows what we fair players in G/W side in for the match up. Sequencing counts for a lot at this point, but sometimes ya just gotta stick the hate you have. Teeg turnning off Massacre (against Storm) + their combo pieces (against Storm et al) followed by a second piece of hate is the most legit of moves.

I like the lists that run Thalia in the sideboard and I think that might be where you want to go. The idea is Punishing Fire is a shit card in match ups where Thalia shines, so it makes sideboarding that much easier. Another option is E-Tutor side with Cannonist and other non-creature hate, which is the strategy I've employed and enjoyed in months past.

SellaNona
12-08-2017, 11:39 PM
Question for all the Punishing players in the room.

I see that most lists don't play Thalia in the main, and some don't even run her in the SB. How do you deal with combo (particularly storm and sneak/show)? I would feel so underprepared for those matchups, and they aren't exactly fringe decks.

As menloe said, Teeg/Canonist and pray. I find that mom + either teeg or canonist generally wins games against storm. Of course, there's always the chance they'll open nuts and combo off turn 1-2, but there's nothing we can do about that (unless you run Mindbreaks or something).

On another note, I went 1-2 against Sneak and Show, which is better than going 0-2. I could have maybe won game 3 if I had sequenced my plays better (I crop rotationed for a basic plains since I was stuck under double blood moon but forgot since I had used my green source for rotation I couldn't cast knight that turn).

Dreadnaught33
12-09-2017, 09:32 AM
Hey guys, shameless plug: the podcast I'm a member of just did an episode on Knight of the Reliquary and, by extension, Maverick. Give it a listen if podcasts are your thing. None of us are experts, so you guys might disagree with some of our points, but it was fun to spend 90 minutes chatting about Knight decks.

I posted it in Format & Article Discussion, but it's also on our website! (http://lonestarlhurgoyfs.com/2017-11-29-Podcast-Austin-Knights/)

I dug this pod man, thanks for posting! Do any of you guys know of any other recent maverick podcasts I can check out that involve things like gameplay decisions, deck building choices etc? Thanks!

Seraphix
12-09-2017, 10:42 AM
...

However, you will always be at a disadvantage since you have to win both sideboard games, which is all the more challenging because the combo player generally knows what we fair players in G/W side in for the match up.

...



This is inaccurate because A.N.T. is stone cold dead to G. Teeg in game 1, which means that even without Thalia in your deck you have a good shot at taking the 1st game. Afterwards the match becomes way easier since you get game 3 on the play.

T.E.S. is another story - even with maindeck Thalia its an unfavorable matchup because they can go off very quickly.

Fatal
12-09-2017, 11:26 AM
This is inaccurate because A.N.T. is stone cold dead to G. Teeg in game 1, which means that even without Thalia in your deck you have a good shot at taking the 1st game. Afterwards the match becomes way easier since you get game 3 on the play.

T.E.S. is another story - even with maindeck Thalia its an unfavorable matchup because they can go off very quickly.

Yes but most routes don't kill instantly and ends with big EtW which can be handled by Zealous Persecution.

11poster925
12-10-2017, 03:19 PM
Pray to whatever gods you worship. Joking aside, you still have access to x2 Teeg father at a minimum (1 main, 1 side), and most lists run some number of Cannonists or Prelates in the side. This is enough hate to put up a decent fight games 2 & 3. However, you will always be at a disadvantage since you have to win both sideboard games, which is all the more challenging because the combo player generally knows what we fair players in G/W side in for the match up. Sequencing counts for a lot at this point, but sometimes ya just gotta stick the hate you have. Teeg turnning off Massacre (against Storm) + their combo pieces (against Storm et al) followed by a second piece of hate is the most legit of moves.

I like the lists that run Thalia in the sideboard and I think that might be where you want to go. The idea is Punishing Fire is a shit card in match ups where Thalia shines, so it makes sideboarding that much easier. Another option is E-Tutor side with Cannonist and other non-creature hate, which is the strategy I've employed and enjoyed in months past.

2-3 Thalia GoT in mb for my punishing maverick has been fine. she's great against grixis delver or at least done well in testing for me. i also run 3 drs, 1 hierarch and 1 bop. maybe it's my meta but combo shows up for big events (1k+).

arlinn kord deserves to be in the naya pw discussion. she can force damage thru with knight, haste is legit and a fine token maker.

timmyod17
12-10-2017, 05:12 PM
Hey guys. Was hoping I could get some feedback on my new Punishing Maverick list.

Lands (24)
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Plains

Creatures (22)
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, GoT
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Ramunap Excavator

Spells (14)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Punishing Fire
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard (Work in progress)
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Containment Priest

2 Pyroblast
3 Thoughtseize

1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sylvan Library
1 Choke

Specific things I'm seeking feedback on:
- Scrubland vs Plateau. Currently running the Scrubland. Having a 2nd black source to cast SB thoughtseizes and for DRS activation is nice. Or do people really feel like Plateau is too important to have? (If I were to play the Scrubland, I could also use my expedition Verdant Catacombs as well :tongue:)
- Stoneforge package. I've seen some people straight up omitting this nowadays. I feel like this deck can outgrind all the fair decks, which is where the Equips shine to begin with. I would be concerned about losing SoFI as it's one of our best ways to get past True Name Nemesis, though.
- Pyroblasts / REBs . I've seen some lists playing 2x of each of these in the sideboard. What is the rationale for the split? And do people think it's worthwhile to have a full set of this effect?

pettdan
12-10-2017, 05:28 PM
Pyroblasts / REBs . I've seen some lists playing 2x of each of these in the sideboard. What is the rationale for the split? And do people think it's worthwhile to have a full set of this effect?

I'll just comment on the split. It rarely matters for your purposes which version you play, exception could be Misdirection of Pyroblast onto a non-blue permanent. However, by splitting your deck becomes less vulnerable to Cabal Therapy, Surgical Extraction and other extraction effects, and Meddling Mage.

Seraphix
12-11-2017, 08:02 AM
Hey guys. Was hoping I could get some feedback on my new Punishing Maverick list.

...

Specific things I'm seeking feedback on:
- Scrubland vs Plateau. Currently running the Scrubland. Having a 2nd black source to cast SB thoughtseizes and for DRS activation is nice. Or do people really feel like Plateau is too important to have?

I haven't seen any successful Punishing lists incorporating discard in the SB, but I suspect it hasn't been tested enough. If trying this the Scrubland is definitely necessary, but in that case I suggest further cutting the Plains for a Plateau, and possibly the Forest for a 2nd Taiga as well. The unwritten rule of thumb is to play 3 fetchable Red sources, typically 2 Taiga and 1 Plateau. You need 2 non-Grove Red sources to use the Punishing Fire engine efficiently, and the 3rd is mainly insurance against Wastelands. If you're playing Excavator, you can probably get away with only 2, but I wouldn't play fewer than 2.


(If I were to play the Scrubland, I could also use my expedition Verdant Catacombs as well :tongue:)

That's not a good thing :tongue:

As an aside, with 2 Black sources I would play Zealous Persecution in the SB, it is very good in the current meta.


- Stoneforge package. I've seen some people straight up omitting this nowadays. I feel like this deck can outgrind all the fair decks, which is where the Equips shine to begin with. I would be concerned about losing SoFI as it's one of our best ways to get past True Name Nemesis, though.

Punishing Maverick is better equipped to drop the SFM package than GWb because it can grind with the Punishing Fire engine. However, after testing some cards to replace the SFM package a few months ago, I concluded none of them are better than playing 2 SFM, 1 Jitte, and 1 Sword.


- Pyroblasts / REBs . I've seen some lists playing 2x of each of these in the sideboard. What is the rationale for the split? And do people think it's worthwhile to have a full set of this effect?

Pyroblast is better in a list with DRS since you can target anything for it to enter the graveyard in a pinch as fuel for DRS.

tescrin
12-11-2017, 11:27 AM
- REB/Pyro Split -> It's also not as weak to Surgical. Given you're playing around on the stack and your opp knows you have exactly one kind of possible counterspell (well.. in this case two!) it's possible that they go for a surgical on that. The other explanation doesn't tell you why you'd ever use REB (aside from artwork or something), and the reason is because you can potentially get a minor edge by splitting the cards.

- SFM -> While I'm a fan of attempting to get rid of the package when I can, I don't think a deck running Dryad Arbor, Noble, BoP, and other anemic threats without evasion should make those cards that much weaker. Removing SFM is normally a call you can make to make a list faster /more aggro, but Punishing Fire is very much a slower plan.


An aside, I've done a Young Pyro Punishing/Loam list before (though not mav) and it was quite fun/stupid.

timmyod17
12-12-2017, 06:54 PM
I haven't seen any successful Punishing lists incorporating discard in the SB, but I suspect it hasn't been tested enough. If trying this the Scrubland is definitely necessary, but in that case I suggest further cutting the Plains for a Plateau, and possibly the Forest for a 2nd Taiga as well. The unwritten rule of thumb is to play 3 fetchable Red sources, typically 2 Taiga and 1 Plateau. You need 2 non-Grove Red sources to use the Punishing Fire engine efficiently, and the 3rd is mainly insurance against Wastelands. If you're playing Excavator, you can probably get away with only 2, but I wouldn't play fewer than 2

Thanks! This is very helpful.

As a long time GWb player, I have a hard time giving up thoughtseize. I really dislike not having potential turn 1 interaction against fast combo. i want to make it work, but it really contorts the mana base.

mgrinshpon
12-12-2017, 08:44 PM
Specific things I'm seeking feedback on:
- Scrubland vs Plateau. Currently running the Scrubland. Having a 2nd black source to cast SB thoughtseizes and for DRS activation is nice. Or do people really feel like Plateau is too important to have? (If I were to play the Scrubland, I could also use my expedition Verdant Catacombs as well :tongue:)
- Stoneforge package. I've seen some people straight up omitting this nowadays. I feel like this deck can outgrind all the fair decks, which is where the Equips shine to begin with. I would be concerned about losing SoFI as it's one of our best ways to get past True Name Nemesis, though.
- Pyroblasts / REBs . I've seen some lists playing 2x of each of these in the sideboard. What is the rationale for the split? And do people think it's worthwhile to have a full set of this effect?


Scrubland vs Plateau: Having 3 red non-mana dork sources has been useful against wasteland. It allows your mana advantage to really snowball later in the game to beat down cards like Tombstalker
SoFaI is good, but having a Knight and literally any other card in play is basically converting an opposing TNN into a fog bank- they must block Knight or the Punishing Fires turn into the burn you need to finish off the game. I have not played many games against UW Blade decks with 3-4x maindeck TNNs, though, so maybe it's critical there.
The split is because of Cabal Therapy. With the sideboard discard, though, maybe going down to 2 is the way to go. I've not been fond of the REB effects because of the awkwardness it poses to timing- Maverick taps out a lot, runs Thalia, and really wants to drop big turn 1 and turn 2 plays- which jives against what REB is good against.


Playtest and let us know how it goes!

Seraphix
12-13-2017, 01:00 PM
Thanks! This is very helpful.

As a long time GWb player, I have a hard time giving up thoughtseize. I really dislike not having potential turn 1 interaction against fast combo. i want to make it work, but it really contorts the mana base.

You do have access to turn 1 combo interaction with GW or Naya: Crop Rotation, Orim's Chant, Surgical Extraction, Mindbreak Trap, Grafdigger's Cage, Pithing Needle, Leyline of Sanctitiy/of the Void, Ravenous Trap, Tormod's Crypt, Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast, Faerie Macabre, etc. None of these options are as versatile as Thoughtseize, but they are available.

I will add some notes about the Punishing Maverick manabase to the primer.

Oathbreakers
12-14-2017, 09:59 AM
What do we think about the 1st list from the Osaka KMC? Some interesting card Choices

• equipment package was 1 SFM & 2 Jitte and no other equipment in the 75
• MD Voice of resurgence
• Moved a Wasteland to the board in favor of a Cavern of souls
• SB Meddling Mage

tescrin
12-14-2017, 11:57 AM
• equipment package was 1 SFM & 2 Jitte and no other equipment in the 75
• Moved a Wasteland to the board in favor of a Cavern of souls


Why run an SFM if you're running 2 jitte? Why not SoFaI as slot 2? I get that natural jitte is quite good for the "gotcha" drop-equip-swing; but.. meh. I'm guessing the person got tired of Jitte blowing up, which is reasonable I guess. That said, swinging through TNN, pyro tokens, and such is probably better. SoFaI also has actual CA attached to it while turning even the most anemic threat into a 4/x. One of it's other benefits is it allows 0/x's to use jitte.

I think the most powerful play this deck and DGA (when they have it) can make is T1 DRS/Noble/Arbor, T2 Thalia, Wasteland

IMO, the deck should go out of its way to find more such plays and maximize that line. For instance, a 1x Loam gives you a psuedo Thalia, in the sense that a T2 Waste + Loam is also absurdly good.


EDIT: On the Mage, MMage is pretty good, though I'd want a blue dual rather than just banking on Noble/DRS/Cavern.
EDIT2: That said, if I have blue mana.. I think i'd much rather be packing Flusterstorm in those slots. You already have hatebears out the nose, you want more T1 protection.

Oathbreakers
12-14-2017, 12:30 PM
I think the most powerful play this deck and DGA (when they have it) can make is T1 DRS/Noble/Arbor, T2 Thalia, Wasteland

IMO, the deck should go out of its way to find more such plays and maximize that line. For instance, a 1x Loam gives you a psuedo Thalia, in the sense that a T2 Waste + Loam is also absurdly good.


EDIT: On the Mage, MMage is pretty good, though I'd want a blue dual rather than just banking on Noble/DRS/Cavern.
EDIT2: That said, if I have blue mana.. I think i'd much rather be packing Flusterstorm in those slots. You already have hatebears out the nose, you want more T1 protection.

I agree the strongest T1>T2 is DRS>Thalia+Waste

the Deck ran a trop, it been the norm with Leovold Maverick lately- on that what is better 2 Prelate or 1 MMage - 1 Prelate

Dreadnaught33
12-17-2017, 10:38 PM
How are you guys feeling about tracker these days in maverick? Too slow or great for CA?

Also, I'm curious about what you guys think about that winning list running the one of voice of resurgence. Is that worth a spot? It kind of hurts that it would cut a stone forge, knight or abrupt decay though.

I've been testing more and more with this deck, and love it a lot. Can't wait to grind more with it.

shallowend
12-18-2017, 07:23 AM
How are you guys feeling about tracker these days in maverick? Too slow or great for CA?

Also, I'm curious about what you guys think about that winning list running the one of voice of resurgence. Is that worth a spot? It kind of hurts that it would cut a stone forge, knight or abrupt decay though.

I've been testing more and more with this deck, and love it a lot. Can't wait to grind more with it.I'm low on tracker recently. Just too slow. I am dubious on voice as it's at its best against counter spells which most people are taking out against us. I can not think of a situation where I would gsz for it

Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

Seraphix
12-18-2017, 08:17 AM
I'm low on tracker recently. Just too slow. I am dubious on voice as it's at its best against counter spells which most people are taking out against us. I can not think of a situation where I would gsz for it

Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

Voice of Resurgence is very good against two of the format's best decks, Grixis Delver and Czech Pile.

Neither of these decks plays removal that 1-for-1's it, so it's effectively card advantage on a compact body that doesn't require other things to "work" like Stoneforge Mystic and Tireless Tracker. Obviously, our deck is capable of growing the token into a large threat.

Scavenging Ooze is another 2-drop that excels against these decks, but is best later in the game when you have mana lying around. As such I'm generally happier to play or Zenith for Voice on turn 2 over Ooze.

Grixis Delver still has counterspells against us post-board which Voice cripples, but discouraging the opponent from playing on your turn isn't only good vs counterspells. For example, it makes removal in response to an Equip much worse.

Overall, I'm happy playing 1 Voice main in the current meta.

DoomRabbit
12-18-2017, 09:02 AM
I played an almost identical list on the weekend (with voice and leo) at the Belgian Lecacy Cup.
Went 4-2-1 for a finish if 17th/74.
Overall pretty happy with the deck, Leovold is a really good card, it was the first time I played with him (because who tests before tournaments ;)), and I'm very impressed.
Voice felt good too, although I played against quite a few swords decks so of course there it is less interesting.
I think I could have done better, it's been 4ish months since I've played legacy so I was a bit rusty and made some poor decisions.

Matchups:
0-2 BUG Delver
2-0 Rug Delver
2-0 Tin Fins
1-1-1 U/W Control with Back to basics
2-0 Esper Control
1-2 B/W Death and Taxes
2-0 Eldrazi


EDIT - Looks like 2 Mav lists (#4, #18) did well in the latest Legacy Challenge https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2017-12-18#decklists
Both running Leovold.
They're both identical so I'm not sure if that's correct or not, but could well be.

shallowend
12-19-2017, 08:53 AM
Voice of Resurgence is very good against two of the format's best decks, Grixis Delver and Czech Pile.

Neither of these decks plays removal that 1-for-1's it, so it's effectively card advantage on a compact body that doesn't require other things to "work" like Stoneforge Mystic and Tireless Tracker. Obviously, our deck is capable of growing the token into a large threat.

Scavenging Ooze is another 2-drop that excels against these decks, but is best later in the game when you have mana lying around. As such I'm generally happier to play or Zenith for Voice on turn 2 over Ooze.

Grixis Delver still has counterspells against us post-board which Voice cripples, but discouraging the opponent from playing on your turn isn't only good vs counterspells. For example, it makes removal in response to an Equip much worse.

Overall, I'm happy playing 1 Voice main in the current meta.That is a convincing argument. I play in a meta without a previlence of those decks but it sounds worth a go

Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

SellaNona
12-19-2017, 07:35 PM
I don't want to buy a Trop just to run Leo but I probably should. Have been planning to pick back up the stuff to play Maverick variants other than Punishing over the next few months anyways.

Not entirely sure how I feel about Blue/White Control being a big thing again ://

loonybob123
12-19-2017, 07:49 PM
I'm at a lost in my current meta which is super heavy on delver and UW miracles whether to run punishing fire version or dark maverick I feel like the P fires give me so much grind potential against the delver decks but sometimes I really want access to the black sideboard options.

It doesn't help that I jam DD combo into the deck also. I tried 4 color briefly but that mana was way too shaky. I just really don't like the counter synergy of DRS with knight and especially against opposing DRS Ive run into a couple situations where we run out of lands to eat and not only do I have a dork who can't make mana but my knights are tiny.

Smarty744
12-20-2017, 11:24 AM
I don't want to buy a Trop just to run Leo but I probably should. Have been planning to pick back up the stuff to play Maverick variants other than Punishing over the next few months anyways.

Not entirely sure how I feel about Blue/White Control being a big thing again ://



Story of my life. Maybe as an early Christmas/Birthday gift to myself 😅

Fatal
12-21-2017, 01:43 PM
Adding tournament proof that Granger Guildmage is one man army vs Elves. Won me both games which was unfavourable before.

If your meta contains Elves and you have splash it's worth SB slot or even main.

Green Lavamancer was also gold vs D&T, mirror and Grixis.

Smarty744
12-24-2017, 12:50 PM
Hey all, so I think I’m gonna be trying to make it to GP Seattle. This will be my first GP and I kinda want to play in the main event. Have any of you done a Legacy GP before? What can I expect to see and what iteration of Maverick do you guys think is the best for a large event like this? Also how should I prepare?

Fatal
12-24-2017, 03:23 PM
Hey all, so I think I’m gonna be trying to make it to GP Seattle. This will be my first GP and I kinda want to play in the main event. Have any of you done a Legacy GP before? What can I expect to see and what iteration of Maverick do you guys think is the best for a large event like this? Also how should I prepare?
I was at 4 GPs, 2 in Legacy, some important hints which aren't easy to do (really):
- get enough sleep before event (8 h)
- don't drink too much coffee/energy drinks
- get decent food, sandwiches, some hot food if you can
- drink a lot of water or light tea during rounds
- get byes, they really help
- 8 rounds of Maverick piloting is mind blowing, your brain will get liquid, melt and flow over ears, next 6 rounds + top is like near death experience, You need be like machine, think only in unusual situation where it's needed, autopilot easy ones you can get it by practice. In last rounds you need be focused, You win by making less mistakes than opponent - so relax in first rounds.
- don't tilt! It's just a random statistical card game. Skill is only half of success, second half is drawing like a devil's deal agreement side. You win only if it's your day, if not - just go for good food or make some good deals at stores.
- if you lose, be a man and congrats your opponent, karma will return sooner or later. Don't be a dick.
- ignore dicks, if he overreacting call judge
- don't fear judges, if you break rules, don't wait - call judge yourself.
- if you don't have byes you can be surprise in first rounds by Homebrew decks on which you aren't be prepared.

Smarty744
12-24-2017, 08:33 PM
I was at 4 GPs, 2 in Legacy, some important hints which aren't easy to do (really):
- get enough sleep before event (8 h)
- don't drink too much coffee/energy drinks
- get decent food, sandwiches, some hot food if you can
- drink a lot of water or light tea during rounds
- get byes, they really help
- 8 rounds of Maverick piloting is mind blowing, your brain will get liquid, melt and flow over ears, next 6 rounds + top is like near death experience, You need be like machine, think only in unusual situation where it's needed, autopilot easy ones you can get it by practice. In last rounds you need be focused, You win by making less mistakes than opponent - so relax in first rounds.
- don't tilt! It's just a random statistical card game. Skill is only half of success, second half is drawing like a devil's deal agreement side. You win only if it's your day, if not - just go for good food or make some good deals at stores.
- if you lose, be a man and congrats your opponent, karma will return sooner or later. Don't be a dick.
- ignore dicks, if he overreacting call judge
- don't fear judges, if you break rules, don't wait - call judge yourself.
- if you don't have byes you can be surprise in first rounds by Homebrew decks on which you aren't be prepared.

Thanks for the tips! Do you remember how the Metas were? I’d assume there is a fair amount of burn and manaless in a legacy tournament of a couple thousand people.

pettdan
12-25-2017, 06:26 AM
Thanks for the tips! Do you remember how the Metas were? I’d assume there is a fair amount of burn and manaless in a legacy tournament of a couple thousand people.

I don't think you can really expect to play against anything specific. I played Maverick at two GPs (2015 and 2016) and some of the kind of odd decks I was paired against were Pox, Goblins, Goblin Stompy and Merfolk. Funny enough, these represented most of my losses in these two events. Also Burn, Cheerios and Shardless-Counterbalance in sideevents.

tescrin
12-25-2017, 01:19 PM
I was at 4 GPs, 2 in Legacy, some important hints which aren't easy to do (really):
- don't fear judges, if you break rules, don't wait - call judge yourself.


I'm not completely sold on this one. I dropped a game because I called a judge on myself on T1. I played a fetch and found that I had SB cards in my deck still. They gave me a loss and a warning because the game had already started (my fetch.) Had I known that, I wouldn't have called them.

Being in Maverick, be *really* good with triggers. Things that eat people alive in tournies are Spirit of the Labyrinth/Leo, Bob, and other card-drawing rules interactions. I've also dropped a game because my 61st card (a thoughtseize) fell out of my deck at my house and I wrote it on my sheet and was randomly deck checked. As if I'm attempting to cheat by having 61 cards and missing one of them. My ass. Funny thing is I think I won both those matches (Nic fit v Merfolk and Junk v Enchantress.) That Enchantress player raged pretty hard as he got hit by discard, Sculler, Lily, etc.. both rounds.

Elpresidente
12-25-2017, 03:24 PM
I'm not completely sold on this one. I dropped a game because I called a judge on myself on T1. I played a fetch and found that I had SB cards in my deck still. They gave me a loss and a warning because the game had already started (my fetch.) Had I known that, I wouldn't have called them.


Not reporting is literally cheating. I don't know what to say dude. Like it sucks that you got a game loss, but not reporting a decklist error because you don't want to get a game loss is cheating at a comp REL event and if they find out, you could get banned for doing that.

Fatal
12-25-2017, 06:09 PM
Not reporting is literally cheating. I don't know what to say dude. Like it sucks that you got a game loss, but not reporting a decklist error because you don't want to get a game loss is cheating at a comp REL event and if they find out, you could get banned for doing that.

Fully agree, if you want end playing any REL Magic go on, your risk.

Mostly I remember my GP in Amsterdam,
Bye
Bye
Round 3 Lands
Round 4 BUG Tempo
Round 5 RUG Tempo
Round 6 High Tide lose
Round 7 Affinity with Canonist MD
Round 8 D&T lose by mull/screw ☹️
So it was good meta decks, but around have seen burns, Homebrew, belchers etc.

I also remember Prague where I was sitting between 3 Dredgers from Germany:-) finally I played against with success. He was playing very interesting version with basics.

Anyway in today meta probably the hardest will be belcher,/tinfins decks and S&T or big Red, others can be though but you can win them, vs above it's like coin flip which I hate.

tescrin
12-26-2017, 01:19 PM
Not reporting is literally cheating. I don't know what to say dude. Like it sucks that you got a game loss, but not reporting a decklist error because you don't want to get a game loss is cheating at a comp REL event and if they find out, you could get banned for doing that.

The point at which you'd get deck checked has already passed. If you get deck checked before the game starts (which is when it happens) you already got your game loss for forgetting to unsideboard. If you start the game and see the mistake during shuffling, you literally can't get deck checked until the next round. Your argument is presuppositional and an emotional appeal; and not only this, but imagines a situation that literally cannot occur* (being deck checked after game 1 has started.)

*

Second, this problem exists from layered bad game design RE: Sideboards. The fact that:
* you have a set of cards that have to be arranged properly between matches
* it dramatically affects the outcome of the game
* you have many-hour long tournaments where you may or may not get to use the bathroom, eat, etc. and have to use that same timeframe to arrange said cards
* it punishes honest players in a draconian style even if they have no previous warnings, for rules they may not remember/know about

Thirdly, plausible deniability. If you go "whoops, yeah I'm just worn out and messed up" which is basically true or else you wouldn't have made the mistake, you are probably not going to be banned. Instead, you will get the same punishment you were going to get for being honest.

Lastly and most importantly, from a game theory perspective, this is just what people who know the rules will do if they understand the rules. Why? Because it's the path of least resistance. You basically can't get caught [see paragraph 1], you don't deserve the game loss [see paragraph 2], and from a game theory perspective Choice A (not shooting yourself in the foot) gives you a chance to win the game and Choice B (ratting on yourself for an honest mistake) not only gives you a game loss, but gives you a warning and a record that will incur harsher penalties as you go on. And with that, the punishment for Choice A is exactly the same as Choice B [paragraph 3]* and therefore there is no risk to making that choice.

*[Unless this isn't an honest mistake and you get caught multiple times, or you just make this mistake consistently in which case you should probably find a way to quit doing that.]


While I wish they hadn't designed such an asinine draconian system of punishing honest players, I (being an honest player), am highly encouraged from every logical analysis of the problem am stuck with the dilemma of there being one obvious good choice, which is to be dishonest. I agree that it'd be great to be in a world where honest people aren't punished but being an exceptionally honest person i can tell you this: You will basically only be punished for it. Employers will punish honesty. Games will punish honesty. You will punish yourself by making stupid choices in the name of honor; because the people on the other side of the equation (again, from a game theory perspective) have more information than you at that point and will take the path of least resistance; which is to fuck you.

That is the world and I am merely being nice enough to let it be known, that indeed even in your favorite passtime at an event you paid good money to go to, you will be fucked for your honesty. Do your best to make no mistakes and be well aware of the punishments for those mistakes before you decide that you would rather be honorable than enjoy something that by all rights is barely worth the money and effort to organize going to. You can shame me all you want, but in the end I'm putting the information out there so if/when the choice arrives for someone, they actually have a chance that I didn't, which is to not fuck themselves. There is literally no argument against the position provided above that makes any sense if you actually think about the way the tournament actually works and the effort put in place to get there (travel, arrangements, expenses, practice, the cards themselves.)

The real answer to the problem is to not make this mistake in the first place; I am merely expanding on what the [i]extremely obviously correct answer is if you do make that mistake

EDIT: Apologies for the philosophical diversion, as you were.

Fatal
12-26-2017, 05:38 PM
The point at which you'd get deck checked has already passed. If you get deck checked before the game starts (which is when it happens) you already got your game loss for forgetting to unsideboard. If you start the game and see the mistake during shuffling, you literally can't get deck checked until the next round. Your argument is presuppositional and an emotional appeal; and not only this, but imagines a situation that literally cannot occur* (being deck checked after game 1 has started.)

*

Second, this problem exists from layered bad game design RE: Sideboards. The fact that:
* you have a set of cards that have to be arranged properly between matches
* it dramatically affects the outcome of the game
* you have many-hour long tournaments where you may or may not get to use the bathroom, eat, etc. and have to use that same timeframe to arrange said cards
* it punishes honest players in a draconian style even if they have no previous warnings, for rules they may not remember/know about

Thirdly, plausible deniability. If you go "whoops, yeah I'm just worn out and messed up" which is basically true or else you wouldn't have made the mistake, you are probably not going to be banned. Instead, you will get the same punishment you were going to get for being honest.

Lastly and most importantly, from a game theory perspective, this is just what people who know the rules will do if they understand the rules. Why? Because it's the path of least resistance. You basically can't get caught [see paragraph 1], you don't deserve the game loss [see paragraph 2], and from a game theory perspective Choice A (not shooting yourself in the foot) gives you a chance to win the game and Choice B (ratting on yourself for an honest mistake) not only gives you a game loss, but gives you a warning and a record that will incur harsher penalties as you go on. And with that, the punishment for Choice A is exactly the same as Choice B [paragraph 3]* and therefore there is no risk to making that choice.

*[Unless this isn't an honest mistake and you get caught multiple times, or you just make this mistake consistently in which case you should probably find a way to quit doing that.]


While I wish they hadn't designed such an asinine draconian system of punishing honest players, I (being an honest player), am highly encouraged from every logical analysis of the problem am stuck with the dilemma of there being one obvious good choice, which is to be dishonest. I agree that it'd be great to be in a world where honest people aren't punished but being an exceptionally honest person i can tell you this: You will basically only be punished for it. Employers will punish honesty. Games will punish honesty. You will punish yourself by making stupid choices in the name of honor; because the people on the other side of the equation (again, from a game theory perspective) have more information than you at that point and will take the path of least resistance; which is to fuck you.

That is the world and I am merely being nice enough to let it be known, that indeed even in your favorite passtime at an event you paid good money to go to, you will be fucked for your honesty. Do your best to make no mistakes and be well aware of the punishments for those mistakes before you decide that you would rather be honorable than enjoy something that by all rights is barely worth the money and effort to organize going to. You can shame me all you want, but in the end I'm putting the information out there so if/when the choice arrives for someone, they actually have a chance that I didn't, which is to not fuck themselves. There is literally no argument against the position provided above that makes any sense if you actually think about the way the tournament actually works and the effort put in place to get there (travel, arrangements, expenses, practice, the cards themselves.)

The real answer to the problem is to not make this mistake in the first place; I am merely expanding on what the [i]extremely obviously correct answer is if you do make that mistake

EDIT: Apologies for the philosophical diversion, as you were.

I understand your points, but have something to add:
I disagree on paragraph 1, on high level constructions are mostly well known, and even on big tournament you will know your opponent deck, this mean if you face direct SB card, game 1 I would call judge instantly. This would end all REL game for my opponent since he didn't call judge himself, and he know his deck which directly lead to a cheating. I remember the shock when one of the well known player pack first time pyroblasts MD.

Sideboard isn't bad design, it's one of the strategic aspect of Magic. Sorry but sideboarding is one of the aspects which need to be learned. I don't see it's a problem swap up to 15 cards in such a complex game. Giving opportunity in SB before the game by cheating - gives Hugh advantage, think about straight strategies like Storm or Reanimator - if punishment would be light, we would have plague of cheating.
Last aspect is stress which is worst then any punishment. If you will continue playing you won't be focused on game, bacuase You will be thinking about consequences and chance of being caught- not worth, really.

Game loss isn't the end of tournament! You can still win this match, I made a lot of mistakes in decklists from many reasons, get game losses and still made decent results. If deck check isn't vs some glass canon combo you can win next two games.

Remember that rules aren't so restrict like they was about SB.

Economical argument is nonsense for me, unless playing MtG is your Job, it won't be good aspect to look at this moral problem.
From economical view you shouldn't be playing Magic at all! You should playing poker since it's much more profitable, have bigger risk value and doesn't require such investment on cards.

Magic is TCG which gives fun on the first place. If you think about not report sloppy SB card in your next round, you do it wrong and take away all fun.

Advise to not commit SB mistakes ever, count and check your SB after and BEFORE every game.

Stuart
12-26-2017, 07:04 PM
On a different note, Blue Maverick took down the most recent Legacy Challenge, and the list is fucking nuts (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2017-12-25).

Smarty744
12-27-2017, 12:11 AM
On a different note, Blue Maverick took down the most recent Legacy Challenge, and the list is fucking nuts (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2017-12-25).


People need to stop posting results with blue Mav before I have to go buy blue duals. And I don’t think the world is ready for me with blue duals.

Fatal
12-27-2017, 03:37 PM
People need to stop posting results with blue Mav before I have to go buy blue duals. And I don’t think the world is ready for me with blue duals.

Played few games with Leo Dark Maverick, quite similar to upper ones, but with changes:

// 61 Maindeck
// 2 Artifact
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

// 28 Creature
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Granger Guildmage
1 Ramunap Excavator
3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

// 4 Instant
4 Swords to Plowshares

// 23 Land
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Taiga
1 Scrubland
2 Tropical Island
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
// Misty can't find Scrubland but I would rather have access to dryad arbor then Scrubland from 9th fetchland, other option is to replace scrubland (which I actually like) for Bayou which isn't good idea.

// 4 Sorcery
4 Green Sun's Zenith


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Creature
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage

// 1 Enchantment
SB: 1 Shapers' Sanctuary

// 5 Instant
SB: 1 Blessed Alliance
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Fatal Push

// 4 Planeswalker
SB: 2 Liliana, the Last Hope
SB: 1 Nissa, Vital Force
SB: 1 Garruk Relentless

// 3 Sorcery
SB: 3 Thoughtseize


It's good, but I found issues with mana, probably 9th fetchland is must have in Canopy slot. Done . Actually this construction is 5 color :-), but Red is minor splash, blue is also minor splash, so basically it's Dark Maverick with 3 blue cards MD. I didn't test yet blue cards in SB but they can be quite useful - for example flusterstorm :-).

I cut 3 mana dorks since I think it's not worth, it's easy target for -1/-1 removal - specially hierarchs. If I will have still issues with mana I will put 1 more Shaman to have 4 shamans, 1 bop, 1 hierarch, having more is just a slot waste.

Some players will probably ask does some utility creatures like Granger Guildmage or Scryb Ranger is really needed - yes they does.

Funny fact this deck actually run full domain 5c :-), but 2 colors are splash - so don't worry :-). Joke - I only miss Red creature to coalition victory conditions. I found Leo is best solution for opponent Leovold with additional benefits, end of the story.

Dreadnaught33
12-28-2017, 07:40 AM
Hey guys- after playing a bunch of combo last night, I’m wondering if with the blue splash it’s possible to consider meddling mage for the SB- would obviously need 2-3 blue lands to pull off, so I’m not sure if it’s feasable with the wasteland suite. Boy would I love to slam one turn two and name show and tell (barring counters) or tendrils or whatever. Seems like it’s a worthy consideration.

On another note, does anybody use any creature tutor cards like worldly tutor in their board? Would be great to run 1 to tutor for canonist, priest, Thalia, any of the creatures we run that aren’t green. Thanks!

Smarty744
12-28-2017, 10:39 AM
Hey guys- after playing a bunch of combo last night, I’m wondering if with the blue splash it’s possible to consider meddling mage for the SB- would obviously need 2-3 blue lands to pull off, so I’m not sure if it’s feasable with the wasteland suite. Boy would I love to slam one turn two and name show and tell (barring counters) or tendrils or whatever. Seems like it’s a worthy consideration.

On another note, does anybody use any creature tutor cards like worldly tutor in their board? Would be great to run 1 to tutor for canonist, priest, Thalia, any of the creatures we run that aren’t green. Thanks!

I personally think Teeg is s better 2 drop and Zenithable. I’d rather play flusterstorm if I am going to play blue combo hate, as you can drop it turn one, and that’s where we are weakest.

And also I find most lists pretty tight to include another tutor package, and typically there isn’t a huge white suite in Maverick. So I think it’s just better to run Thalia/ Mom as a 4 of and some number of cannonist/ priest in the side, rather than run less and slow yourself down with a another tutor. But probably worth a try, if you end up testing this I’d love to hear the results.

Fatal
12-28-2017, 05:29 PM
I personally think Teeg is s better 2 drop and Zenithable. I’d rather play flusterstorm if I am going to play blue combo hate, as you can drop it turn one, and that’s where we are weakest.

And also I find most lists pretty tight to include another tutor package, and typically there isn’t a huge white suite in Maverick. So I think it’s just better to run Thalia/ Mom as a 4 of and some number of cannonist/ priest in the side, rather than run less and slow yourself down with a another tutor. But probably worth a try, if you end up testing this I’d love to hear the results.

We don't need more hatebears. We have Canonist, Thalia, gaddock, priest, even revoker. We have discard from black color, so last option is permission:
- pyroblasts, red elemental blast from red splash
- flusterstorm from Blue splash.
I don't think we need more hatebears: more diversity, to not lose to single sweeper.

Strassbaw
12-29-2017, 12:46 AM
Hey guys- after playing a bunch of combo last night, I’m wondering if with the blue splash it’s possible to consider meddling mage for the SB- would obviously need 2-3 blue lands to pull off, so I’m not sure if it’s feasable with the wasteland suite. Boy would I love to slam one turn two and name show and tell (barring counters) or tendrils or whatever. Seems like it’s a worthy consideration.

On another note, does anybody use any creature tutor cards like worldly tutor in their board? Would be great to run 1 to tutor for canonist, priest, Thalia, any of the creatures we run that aren’t green. Thanks!

Have you tried Sanctum Prelate? This card has been kind to me. I play punishing mav with Drs and I really like Reb too. I also like Crop Rotation in the board if you run Dark Depths main deck and a Bog in the sideboard.

Smarty744
12-29-2017, 12:47 AM
We don't need more hatebears. We have Canonist, Thalia, gaddock, priest, even revoker. We have discard from black color, so last option is permission:
- pyroblasts, red elemental blast from red splash
- flusterstorm from Blue splash.
I don't think we need more hatebears: more diversity, to not lose to single sweeper.

Couldn’t agree more, haven’t tried pyroblast, but I imagine it’s probably just a little worse than flusterstorm. I think ill give it a shot next week.

Dreadnaught33
12-29-2017, 08:31 AM
I like the idea of flusterstorm, and I’ve read up a bit on it— can anybody in here who uses it explain their experience with it? How many to do run? Do you leave it in on the play AND draw vs combo? Bring it in vs other decks? Is it even worth running at all? I’m going to test with it, but I value the veteran experience and opinions in here the most.

Rascalyote
12-29-2017, 11:12 AM
I like the idea of flusterstorm, and I’ve read up a bit on it— can anybody in here who uses it explain their experience with it? How many to do run? Do you leave it in on the play AND draw vs combo? Bring it in vs other decks? Is it even worth running at all? I’m going to test with it, but I value the veteran experience and opinions in here the most.

Not really relevant today but I've tested a SB blue dual and spell pierces before but this was back in 201...2? Before DRS was printed and the deck was just G/W so we didn't have thoughtseize. I find the proactive discard to be way better vs combo decks, especially storm as they still keep in discard against you, and although they won't name flusterstorm they have chances of seeing it with Probe/Therapy.

If you already have blue for Leovold then some counterspells seem fine as another angle of protection, none of you guys likes Spell Pierce? Hits Jace, EE, and some other pesky cards fluster doesn't and will still get the job done against storm most of the time. But you lose the combo of "draw into flusterstorm with Leovold, flusterstorm the rest of your tendrils" so there's that I guess. With that said I'm not the biggest fan of leaving up mana in this deck as most of our stuff is sorcery speed.


Personally I'm going back to a G/W maindeck (other than DRS) and just keeping the deck consistent, despite how good Thoughtseize has been in the maindeck and the extra SB slots it's given me, it makes your land drops awk sometimes (but I'm sure I'll come back to it MD in the future)

Fatal
12-29-2017, 03:32 PM
I like the idea of flusterstorm, and I’ve read up a bit on it— can anybody in here who uses it explain their experience with it? How many to do run? Do you leave it in on the play AND draw vs combo? Bring it in vs other decks? Is it even worth running at all? I’m going to test with it, but I value the veteran experience and opinions in here the most.

I played 3x spell Pierce back in mental misstep era, was great vs walkers and combo, I didn't test spell Pierce and t.size.

Boneflute
12-30-2017, 09:15 AM
Speaking of tutor effects, has anyone found success with enlightened tutor? I know it's more of a pikula/dead guy ale/junk strategy, but is it viable to sculpt the sideboard around enlightened tutor?
My experience with the card has led me to believe that it's effective against combo. It's clearly a form of card disadvantage, and it's a deplorable strategy against tempo strategies.
Regardless, I really enjoy being able to tutor canonist against storm, or engineered plague versus elves, or rest in peace even against dredge and reanimator.
But these combo decks are clearly terrible match ups, and perhaps these slots should be dedicated to winning against the fair match ups.
So, does anyone have some insights or experiences they would like to share regarding enlightened tutor in the sideboard of our beloved maverick deck?

Strassbaw
12-30-2017, 12:40 PM
Speaking of tutor effects, has anyone found success with enlightened tutor? I know it's more of a pikula/dead guy ale/junk strategy, but is it viable to sculpt the sideboard around enlightened tutor?
My experience with the card has led me to believe that it's effective against combo. It's clearly a form of card disadvantage, and it's a deplorable strategy against tempo strategies.
Regardless, I really enjoy being able to tutor canonist against storm, or engineered plague versus elves, or rest in peace even against dredge and reanimator.
But these combo decks are clearly terrible match ups, and perhaps these slots should be dedicated to winning against the fair match ups.
So, does anyone have some insights or experiences they would like to share regarding enlightened tutor in the sideboard of our beloved maverick deck?

Etutor has been good to me in the past. I played it in punishing maverick and did not play Thalia. The package I ran most of the time was Null Rod, Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, Engineered plague, Oblivian Ring, Ethersworn Canonist, Tormods Crypt, and occasionally I would add cards like Choke, Engineered Explosives, Circle of Protection: Red, Humility, Aura of Science and even Worship when eldrazi was big.

Overall I liked it, but I feel like with Thalia it's not needed. Thalia makes it very expensive and after all, it is card disadvantage. It's only worth brining in against combo decks as 1 card can beat certain combo decks, but against other decks, the card disadvantage is too big to overcome. If combo is prevalent, perhaps it's worth considering. I have never tested this card with success with Thalia in my deck.

pettdan
12-30-2017, 01:12 PM
I like Enlightened Tutor over a second Ethersworn Canonist, since it evades t1 discard otp vs storm and it's useful for getting Plague, especially vs TES the flexibility of the card in getting Canonist or Plague (before or after goblins) is great, also getting Canonist into your hand can be great vs Show and Tell; second reason I play it is for an extra virtual copy of Plague vs Elves (or potentially Humility, I don't usually play it though); third reason is an extra virtual copy of Rest in Peace, also through t1 discard, vs Dredge, Reanimator and Lands. Then there can be corner cases of getting Choke when a combo player is tapped out, Pithing Needle vs whatever. I'm not convinced it's better than doubling up on Canonist but it's what I usually play. I don't think you should give up on the combo matchup, and a tutor board helps increase chances to find answers if they don't have a t1 win.

Fatal
12-30-2017, 05:26 PM
Ok let's try to create open field SB for Dark Leo Maverick or just GWbu Maverick.
Let say MD contains 1 Qasali, 1 Railler, 1 Decay, Ooze, 3-4 shamans and 4 thalia's.


//Storm, S&T, Controls, Infect, Elves, Big Eldrazi
3 Thoughtsieze
//Split 2/1 maybe less?
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
//Storm, Elves, Omni - maybe it's time to drop Canonist and focus //on more proactive plays like upper with Gaddock/Thalia backup?
// Vs Elves I use Granger and it's much better
1 Ethersworn Canonist / Reclamation Sage?

//TNN, Grixis Tempo, D&T, Infect
2 Zealous Persecution

//Tempo, Elves any creature base decks
2 Blessed Alliance/Abrupt Decay/Fatal Push?

//Slow controls, Czech Pile and UW
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Garruk Rentless
1 ??? / Shapers' Sanctuary

Creating perfect SB on open field is instant failure, better predict vs what you can play and what tools you need, don't try to win every known matchup.

What is missing in upper sb:
- Fast Graveyard Hate vs BR Reanimator, not sure is it worth 3 slots to have impact, mostly dead vs other matchup, you still have decent chances if you win a dice roll with siezes and counters.

- Better Late Game vs Czech Pile/Uw
1 more card-carrying this MU, probably walker, I was looking for any good walkers for 3 Mana but only Liliana has decent options(3rd in SB is overkill), I also try Domi Rade, but after SB my 28/61 creature count drops to about 20-22 so it's bad choose. Second Garruk would be also not bad but I don't like it's low loyalty count, bolt/K.command can easy kill it. Elspeth is nice but WW is not easy sometimes to handle along with BB in Liliana cost. Was thinking also about Bitterblossom and. Tried small Leo enchantment was 50/50 if opponent had enough counters for lower thread density it's not great.

- More artifact/enchantment removal is needed vs D&T and some random Brown Stax/Robots/Big eldrazi. 2 x Abrupt Decay can resolve this problem but would be useless vs Turbo Depths or Lands or TNN where Edict effect will be better.
Note that 4 color deck can be easy hit by Moon effects or Price of Progress.. so more B removal mean we should start to think about basic swamp MD, which I tested and mostly hated.

SellaNona
12-31-2017, 12:13 AM
I'm at a lost in my current meta which is super heavy on delver and UW miracles whether to run punishing fire version or dark maverick I feel like the P fires give me so much grind potential against the delver decks but sometimes I really want access to the black sideboard options.

It doesn't help that I jam DD combo into the deck also. I tried 4 color briefly but that mana was way too shaky. I just really don't like the counter synergy of DRS with knight and especially against opposing DRS Ive run into a couple situations where we run out of lands to eat and not only do I have a dork who can't make mana but my knights are tiny.

This is honestly a very tough question. I've played both variants and while I personally enjoy playing Punishing Maverick a lot more, I'd have to say it's probably best to go with Dark Maverick just because of the Miracles players.

The thing is that Punishing Maverick doesn't really have a solid out to Monastery Mentor, and Mentor will run away with the game if you let him. If you try to Punishing Fire it they can just cantrip or whatever in response and if you swords it they'll just negate that. On the other hand Dark Maverick gives you access to Abrupt Decay which not only kills their Mentor but also kills Counterbalance (which has relatively recently found its way back into Miracles lists). Also Bob is fantastic against Miracles.

You are right in saying that the Punishing Fire version has a great grind game against Delver decks. Having a recurrable way to pop Delver and Deathrite Shaman is really nice especially since people generally will not counter Punishing Fire unless they're in some sort of extremely drastic situation. That being said Dark Maverick is still decent against Delver and if there are a lot of Miracles players running Dark Maverick will make your life easier.

Also, if there's a fair bit of combo running around, Dark Maverick has a better matchup into most if not all combo decks than Punishing just because of having access to discard (and having less dead cards in the maindeck game 1).

Cpt-Qc
12-31-2017, 01:29 PM
For those of you that play Dark Maverick, how many confidants do you usually have in the main? I've always been on the GWb build but never considered playing them until now so I'm wondering how many are needed to see an impact on most games.

Also, my meta seems to be filled with UW control decks atm so I'm trying to fit Garruk Relentless in the side. The only cards I think I can live without are Library and Choke but both of them are also very good in the MU. I have never used it so is Garruk superior enough that replacing either would be worth it or should I stick to my two enchantments.

SellaNona
12-31-2017, 03:25 PM
For those of you that play Dark Maverick, how many confidants do you usually have in the main? I've always been on the GWb build but never considered playing them until now so I'm wondering how many are needed to see an impact on most games.

Also, my meta seems to be filled with UW control decks atm so I'm trying to fit Garruk Relentless in the side. The only cards I think I can live without are Library and Choke but both of them are also very good in the MU. I have never used it so is Garruk superior enough that replacing either would be worth it or should I stick to my two enchantments.

I'd say 1-2 max, 2 if you don't mind seeing it more often.

Smarty744
12-31-2017, 07:09 PM
For those of you that play Dark Maverick, how many confidants do you usually have in the main? I've always been on the GWb build but never considered playing them until now so I'm wondering how many are needed to see an impact on most games.

Also, my meta seems to be filled with UW control decks atm so I'm trying to fit Garruk Relentless in the side. The only cards I think I can live without are Library and Choke but both of them are also very good in the MU. I have never used it so is Garruk superior enough that replacing either would be worth it or should I stick to my two enchantments.

I would try 3 the first time your go out with it, to see how it impacts your games, as you’ll probably get to play it at least 1-2 times vs. each deck you play against, then move down depending on how it performs. It’s an awesome card, as it is a big threat against most fair decks, especially miracles, and only cost 1B.

menloe
01-01-2018, 12:03 PM
For those of you that play Dark Maverick, how many confidants do you usually have in the main? I've always been on the GWb build but never considered playing them until now so I'm wondering how many are needed to see an impact on most games.

Also, my meta seems to be filled with UW control decks atm so I'm trying to fit Garruk Relentless in the side. The only cards I think I can live without are Library and Choke but both of them are also very good in the MU. I have never used it so is Garruk superior enough that replacing either would be worth it or should I stick to my two enchantments.

There's room for all three. I run two Choke sideboard (Pun Mav and GWb) and have run Sylvan Library in the main deck and sideboard at different times (Pun Mav and GWb) and Garruk (GWb) in the main deck. I used to split Garruk/Elspeth, but I like having two Garruk in the main now.

There's a lot you can fiddle with to fit these cards. I cut SFM, which is two to three slots, and just run the equipment. I'm on five mana dorks instead of six: DRSx3, NH, and BoP. If I run Garruk, I drop whatever one-of three drop I was horsing around with the week prior and sometimes move Library to the side. Probably there is a main deck cut you could make to facilitate Garruk's inclusion without jettisoning your enchantments.

My meta is grindier than a 1990s high school dance so keep that in mind.

Cpt-Qc
01-05-2018, 08:25 PM
Still in the 90s, Tony Hawk Pro Skater had some serious grinds too :rolleyes:

I'm trying 1of safekeeper atm but I'll definitely try 2-3 confidants since I want to fine-tune to this white and removal infested meta.

Mr. Nekro
01-05-2018, 11:42 PM
Definitely curious about the blue splash for Leo. If I was only going to try a singleton copy, would I even need a blue dual? Would the Deathrites, Hierarch, and GSZs be enough? I'd rather pick up a Cradle over a blue dual.

SellaNona
01-06-2018, 12:22 AM
Definitely curious about the blue splash for Leo. If I was only going to try a singleton copy, would I even need a blue dual? Would the Deathrites, Hierarch, and GSZs be enough? I'd rather pick up a Cradle over a blue dual.

You can try it. Do keep in mind that Deathrite eats removal like crazy and GSZ won't do anything if you draw the singleton copy though. I'm sure you'll be fine overall but no blue land will screw you a few games.

DoomRabbit
01-08-2018, 05:44 AM
Pretty anecdotal, but at a recent 7 rounds tournament I only ever cast Leovold off of the trop.
I used to think I'd be fine without it, but after that I'm not so sure.

jdc5011
01-13-2018, 10:56 PM
Does anybody have a punishing fire build that they’ve had success with? Thinking it might be good with the meta leaning heavily on shaman/delver right now but I could be completely off base here.

Strassbaw
01-13-2018, 11:13 PM
Does anybody have a punishing fire build that they’ve had success with? Thinking it might be good with the meta leaning heavily on shaman/delver right now but I could be completely off base here.

This is my current list. I am trying Thalia main deck, but I don't normally play it main deck. The addition of the planeswalker in my board is because of the number of miracle players and 4cc players in my meta game. I've been playing punishing maverick for many years and the deck has plenty of room for tweaking cards for a given meta game.


Maindeck (60)
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
1 Bayou
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard (15)
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Crop Rotation
2 Pyroblast
2 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog

Cpt-Qc
01-14-2018, 10:58 AM
Don't you miss the sofi? Having a way to attack through TNN and having a mom protected from pfire at all times still seems very good.

I guess cutting it means you can cut SFM since you don't have the need for a toolbox equip package anymore. I'm thinking about replacing 2 SFM with 2 BoBs and running 1 more jitte might be good enough..

Smarty744
01-14-2018, 02:29 PM
I find the best way around TNN is a Jitte on a bird or scryb, or just waiting for them to swing so you can strike back with the Jitte on a non flying creature and negate their attack. I’m not totally sold on hierarch yet, I feel bird is just better.

I can see two Jitte over Sofi, Sofi always seems “win more”, whereas Jitte helps you take back a board state where you’re behind.

Disclaimer: It is hard to get a bird to activate Jitte, so heirarch is good at that, but I play 2 Pridemage to help with that.

Rancor85
01-14-2018, 08:56 PM
This is the list I'm using for a jump off point not ever playing the deck. I have only played it the last 2 weeks at my LGS. Been having a hard time with new miracles, grixis delver.


Creatures (22)
1*Birds of Paradise
3*Deathrite Shaman
4*Knight of the Reliquary
4*Mother of Runes
1*Noble Hierarch
2*Qasali Pridemage
1*Ramunap Excavator
1*Scavenging Ooze
1*Scryb Ranger
2*Stoneforge Mystic
1*Gaddock Teeg
1*Dryad Arbor
Lands (23)
1*Forest
1*Plains
1*Bayou
3*Grove of the Burnwillows
1*Plateau
2*Savannah
1*Taiga
1*Thespian's Stage
3*Wasteland
4*Windswept Heath
3*Wooded Foothills
1*Karakas
1*Dark Depths

Spells (15)
1*Sword of Fire and Ice
1*Sylvan Library
4*Punishing Fire
4*Swords to Plowshares
1*Umezawa's Jitte
4*Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard
2*Ethersworn Canonist
1*Reclamation Sage
2*Choke
3*Crop Rotation
2*Pyroblast
1*Red Elemental Blast
1*Zealous Persecution
1*Sigarda, Host of Herons
1*Fiery Justice
1*Bojuka Bog

***Options****
Granger guildmage
Enlightened tutor

Strassbaw
01-15-2018, 12:49 AM
This is the list I'm using for a jump off point not ever playing the deck. I have only played it the last 2 weeks at my LGS. Been having a hard time with new miracles, grixis delver.


Creatures (22)
1*Birds of Paradise
3*Deathrite Shaman
4*Knight of the Reliquary
4*Mother of Runes
1*Noble Hierarch
2*Qasali Pridemage
1*Ramunap Excavator
1*Scavenging Ooze
1*Scryb Ranger
2*Stoneforge Mystic
1*Gaddock Teeg
1*Dryad Arbor
Lands (23)
1*Forest
1*Plains
1*Bayou
3*Grove of the Burnwillows
1*Plateau
2*Savannah
1*Taiga
1*Thespian's Stage
3*Wasteland
4*Windswept Heath
3*Wooded Foothills
1*Karakas
1*Dark Depths

Spells (15)
1*Sword of Fire and Ice
1*Sylvan Library
4*Punishing Fire
4*Swords to Plowshares
1*Umezawa's Jitte
4*Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard
2*Ethersworn Canonist
1*Reclamation Sage
2*Choke
3*Crop Rotation
2*Pyroblast
1*Red Elemental Blast
1*Zealous Persecution
1*Sigarda, Host of Herons
1*Fiery Justice
1*Bojuka Bog

***Options****
Granger guildmage
Enlightened tutor

I like the list. Are you playing against grixis Delver with stifle, or spell pierce? Stifle is really strong against us. Your list looks like it would have some game against grixis Delver. I run 1 more land than you and I don't not run SFM, and the match is favored for me. Perhaps some more reps with the deck will help you in the match up. I win almost any match they don't get Tnn or I get mana screwed. Miracles is going to be a bad matchup. I like planeswalkers and other noncreaure permanents in the matchup. I board out swords to plowshares and some mana dorks as you cannot establish a wide board against them.

Mr. Nekro
01-15-2018, 10:54 PM
Is there a Maverick Discord?

Megadeus
01-16-2018, 09:51 AM
Is there a Maverick Discord?

There's a fairly inactive Maverick facebook group

ClimbGneiss
01-16-2018, 10:51 AM
Hello All,

Recently played a single round match on MTGO versus a Maverick build. I have never played Maverick - I mostly play Blade/UW Control, Lands/Turbo Depths.

The build that I played against seems pretty much in line with what I'm seeing described on here with one notable exception: Lotus Cobra .

It seems like the sort of card that's been toyed around with in the past and always been shaved during cuts, but it really destroyed me when I played against it.

Opp on Maverick:
T1: land, birds
T2: cast Lotus cobra, play fetch (trigger), crack fetch get a dual (trigger ), tap dual play renegade rallier get the fetch back, with all the triggers cast ramunap, tracker or knight of the reliquary.

Subsequent turns abused scryb Ranger and tracker. Ill have to see if I can find the match replay, but I thought my opponent had some way of "flickering" renegade rallier.

NEELEY
01-16-2018, 01:40 PM
I played a similar list to this https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/878024#paper at Scg Columbus. Started off 5-0 and loss the last 3. I believe I made some mistakes and should of won round 6 for the double draw into top 8. I have also 66% win rate on mtgo with it. I feel like the deck is pretty good and fun to play. This is the list almost identical who won the Legacy challenge a few weeks ago.

Mr. Nekro
01-16-2018, 05:09 PM
I played a similar list to this https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/878024#paper at Scg Columbus. Started off 5-0 and loss the last 3. I believe I made some mistakes and should of won round 6 for the double draw into top 8. I have also 66% win rate on mtgo with it. I feel like the deck is pretty good and fun to play. This is the list almost identical who won the Legacy challenge a few weeks ago.

I'm assuming you're DNEELEY on MTGO? Not to be weird or anything, but when I first started thinking about playing Legacy and Maverick it was always your lists on mtgtop8 that I looked at and thought seemed the best/coolest. So thanks, haha.

Rancor85
01-16-2018, 05:45 PM
I like the list. Are you playing against grixis Delver with stifle, or spell pierce? Stifle is really strong against us. Your list looks like it would have some game against grixis Delver. I run 1 more land than you and I don't not run SFM, and the match is favored for me. Perhaps some more reps with the deck will help you in the match up. I win almost any match they don't get Tnn or I get mana screwed. Miracles is going to be a bad matchup. I like planeswalkers and other noncreaure permanents in the matchup. I board out swords to plowshares and some mana dorks as you cannot establish a wide board against them.

My opponent was playing stifle and TNN. really saw some games where granger guildmage would have been bonkers. Didn't know if people had really tested the card. I really like SFM and the sword/ jitte split. Just like all the angles of attack this deck provides. Would people be willing to help me with a quick sideboard guide with the list I provided above? Have a couple big events coming up next month and will take all the help I can get. I've been playing turbo depths lately and it's my go to right now. I'd like to get more comfortable with this deck so I can play it at Worcester. Thanks

Thunderknight
01-16-2018, 09:48 PM
The Grixis Delver can go from Favorable to 50/50. IT all depends if they are on stifle or not. stifle builds are more annoying to deal with because sometime you just have to walk into it, and get stifled. Hopefully you have a scryb ranger active to counteract the stifle (with the exception of Jitte, Fetches, Sophie, Horizon Canopy, etc).

New Miracles can be challenging. This is where Tireless Tracker/ Ramunap Excavator can be handy. By drawing more cards than them, you slowly find your answer quicker than they find entreat for lethal kill. I found out that I rely on winning that match-up through the 20/20 plan the later the game goes. They run out of removal fairly quickly.


This is the list I'm using for a jump off point not ever playing the deck. I have only played it the last 2 weeks at my LGS. Been having a hard time with new miracles, grixis delver.


Creatures (22)
1*Birds of Paradise
3*Deathrite Shaman
4*Knight of the Reliquary
4*Mother of Runes
1*Noble Hierarch
2*Qasali Pridemage
1*Ramunap Excavator
1*Scavenging Ooze
1*Scryb Ranger
2*Stoneforge Mystic
1*Gaddock Teeg
1*Dryad Arbor
Lands (23)
1*Forest
1*Plains
1*Bayou
3*Grove of the Burnwillows
1*Plateau
2*Savannah
1*Taiga
1*Thespian's Stage
3*Wasteland
4*Windswept Heath
3*Wooded Foothills
1*Karakas
1*Dark Depths

Spells (15)
1*Sword of Fire and Ice
1*Sylvan Library
4*Punishing Fire
4*Swords to Plowshares
1*Umezawa's Jitte
4*Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard
2*Ethersworn Canonist
1*Reclamation Sage
2*Choke
3*Crop Rotation
2*Pyroblast
1*Red Elemental Blast
1*Zealous Persecution
1*Sigarda, Host of Herons
1*Fiery Justice
1*Bojuka Bog

***Options****
Granger guildmage
Enlightened tutor

Mr. Nekro
01-16-2018, 10:26 PM
I made a discord if anyone is interested. https://discord.gg/Tx9H7Yu

NEELEY
01-17-2018, 09:32 AM
I'm assuming you're DNEELEY on MTGO? Not to be weird or anything, but when I first started thinking about playing Legacy and Maverick it was always your lists on mtgtop8 that I looked at and thought seemed the best/coolest. So thanks, haha.

Yes, that’s me. Most of the time I play blue decks on mtgo now. I honestly have to give credit to maverick because I won the majority of prizes to buy into other decks in the format. I always come back to maverick because I enjoy playing my favorite card in the game(KOTR). Thanks, for the compliment. I always liked my list :)

Dreadnaught33
01-17-2018, 12:44 PM
Yes, that’s me. Most of the time I play blue decks on mtgo now. I honestly have to give credit to maverick because I won the majority of prizes to buy into other decks in the format. I always come back to maverick because I enjoy playing my favorite card in the game(KOTR). Thanks, for the compliment. I always liked my list :)

Yeah dude, I cannot quit KOTR in any format where she is legal. Congrats on all your success, and I for one hope you do come back to maverick and keep taking down events!

Oathbreakers
01-18-2018, 11:39 AM
I played a similar list to this https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/878024#paper at Scg Columbus. Started off 5-0 and loss the last 3. I believe I made some mistakes and should of won round 6 for the double draw into top 8. I have also 66% win rate on mtgo with it. I feel like the deck is pretty good and fun to play. This is the list almost identical who won the Legacy challenge a few weeks ago.

I've Been happy with moving to a Trop and a Leovold, but am unsure of Cutting SFM & Mom. Doesn't this make you get bricked by TNN a lot? I always liked the SFM Package of Jitte + Sofai with a Pro white sword in the side.

Fatal
01-18-2018, 01:12 PM
I've Been happy with moving to a Trop and a Leovold, but am unsure of Cutting SFM & Mom. Doesn't this make you get bricked by TNN a lot? I always liked the SFM Package of Jitte + Sofai with a Pro white sword in the side.

You can skip moms IMO, but similar to you I would keep SFM small package 2-3 SFM + Jitte + SoFI to not be blocked by TNN.

Cpt-Qc
01-21-2018, 10:28 AM
Personnally I could consider dropping SFM but never mom. The sheer amount of pressure she generates is insane. At worst she's a lightning rod that lets your DRS or other 1 drops live. At best she's either a low casting cost 2 for 1. That's only as a standalone card because once paired with kotr, scryb ranger or teeg/insert hatebear she's even better.

But that's what I like about maverick. It can be fine-tuned to any meta and it can make sense to drop many parts of the deck so long as it's meta-favorable.

Dreadnaught33
01-22-2018, 09:32 PM
Hey all-

Can somebody tell me how to attempt to beat miracles, mostly through terminus? I've been getting wrecked by it lately. I know our best cards are teeg, thalia, leovold, sylvan library, maybe PW like gideon-typically i play good players in my area who counter any of these on sight.

If anybody knows how to actually win this one, can you walk me through what you look for in an opening hand, how you sideboard, how you sequence, etc.? I'm basically running this list verbatim, occasionally i switch a card or two- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/893631#paper

Thanks!

Cpt-Qc
01-22-2018, 10:41 PM
Hey all-

Can somebody tell me how to attempt to beat miracles, mostly through terminus? I've been getting wrecked by it lately. I know our best cards are teeg, thalia, leovold, sylvan library, maybe PW like gideon-typically i play good players in my area who counter any of these on sight.

If anybody knows how to actually win this one, can you walk me through what you look for in an opening hand, how you sideboard, how you sequence, etc.? I'm basically running this list verbatim, occasionally i switch a card or two- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/893631#paper

Thanks!

I doubt you'll find a satisfying answer but I'll try. First of all, try to lower your expectations as it's a pretty bad MU.

The trick is you just have to get teeg + prelate OR teeg + 2-3 MoMs OR teeg + Safekeeper online.... see where I'm going? Then, like it wasn't enough already, you have to get a little lucky. If you can't establish a lock, then your chances are pretty slim. I beat miracles a few weeks back and it was due to my opponent making a mistake. I had to activate safekeeper 7 times until I ran out of lands and he still almost had me.

pettdan
01-23-2018, 02:26 AM
Working towards the lock is one game plan. You need to work with what you draw, usually I think you try to pressure them by playing 1-2 threats and not overcommitting into Terminus. That's the first game plan. Try to save resources to beat a landed Jace. Like, having an equipment in play and saving a fetch is good, arbor gets quasi haste. Sword of l&s protects it from stp though so that's a consideration. Tracker is nice, I would try to pull out a swords and a snapcaster then hope to get the opponent to have to terminus it, so I can get it back with a gsz. Card advantage is important, but it's very hard to keep up with miracles there. If you can get a Karakas your Thalias will be more of a threat since you can protevt them without overcommitting. Slowing down their cantrips is good.

From the sideboard there is thoughtseize which can help you disrupt the opponent enough to get a win. Probably a bit controversial. The chokes are game winners, planeswalkers too.. If you want to beat them regularly you need practice and probably adjusting the deck, I spent a long time doing that before the top ban and i still tended to lose tight games.

Rascalyote
01-23-2018, 03:35 AM
Question-

Vs. Miracles would you rather bring in 2 copies of Liliana, The Last Hope or 2 Surgical Extraction.

Liliana can clean up mentor tokens/snaps, pick up a countered thing, and threaten inevitability. But 99% it's too slow and loses to angels, you have nothing to kill and no creatures in the yard. Surgical is good at removing plow to help the teeg plan, "countering" a snapcaster or predict, shuffling to stop a miracle when they telegraph it, combo with thoughtseize, etc etc but it doesn't do much when you're behind on board and when you need card advantage or a threat or even an answer it's none of those.

I normally haven't been bringing in the surgicals but my winrate vs this deck is pretty low (but I don't play against it that often thankfully). Liliana also has the upside of being a PW you can play through Teeg though.

pettdan
01-23-2018, 04:32 AM
@Rascalyote: maybe someone can answer this better than me, but that never stopped me. So, I always consider Surgical too but rarely bring it in from Maverick. Maybe that's a mistake. But Liliana tlh can both provide a game winning ultimate and clear the board from chump blocking snapcasters, which means you can pressure their Jace. I would try Liliana here..

Edit: oh yeah, Qasali getting Azcanta or Counterbalance and coming back is a thing too.

Edit2: I will think through my Miracles plan for next time I play Maverick. What are others doing? I guess Miracles is part of the reason why Leovold-heavy lists are popular. Leo+mother is lika a two card soft-lock vs a deck made up of cantrips. And Leo doesn't get ambush vipered by Snapcaster. If not going blue maybe 2 Liliana tlh and a gsz-able hexproofer could help from the board? The problem with Thrun was always not getting through, msybe Liliana tlh can help with that..

Skizz
01-23-2018, 09:14 AM
against Miracles we cant do much imo - we can win against poor players, but good players will have easy game against us.
im glad that there arent much miracles players in my meta atm.:tongue:

i just sleeved up some lotus cobras and test a mother/sfm-less maverick list today :really:

Stuart
01-23-2018, 10:46 AM
+1 on Choke. I’m playing 3 in my board; having must-answers for Miracles, Blade etc means you’ll either get them with the Choke, or they’ll expend resources on it and you’ll have an easier time getting your Thalia, Teeg, etc to stick. I

Strassbaw
01-23-2018, 01:53 PM
Hey all-

Can somebody tell me how to attempt to beat miracles, mostly through terminus? I've been getting wrecked by it lately. I know our best cards are teeg, thalia, leovold, sylvan library, maybe PW like gideon-typically i play good players in my area who counter any of these on sight.

If anybody knows how to actually win this one, can you walk me through what you look for in an opening hand, how you sideboard, how you sequence, etc.? I'm basically running this list verbatim, occasionally i switch a card or two- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/893631#paper

Thanks!

Stuart is correct on Choke. Its better than it used to be in this match up (and it used to be great). Previous, 1 Planes could be used to search with top for answers. Now they cannot do that. They must spend blue mana for cantrips outside of Search for Azcanta. I play Punishing Fire, so I have more game against them. Punishing Fire hits walkers, and can be used a test card for Counter Balance. Game 2, Pyroblast or Reb is Excellent. A back up Gaddock Teeg in the board is great too. Game 1 will not be in your favor. Adding more QPM may help. Considering boarding out mana dorks, removal.

maharis
01-23-2018, 02:12 PM
I like Bitterblossom in the sideboard of any deck making black mana right now, especially equipment decks. It's very good against Miracles, also solid against Czech Pile and Lands.

On a similar front, I'm considering playing a Moorland Haunt as part of the land toolbox in a deck with the blue splash. It's bad against STP decks but seems like a good way to come back against the UBx grindy decks, again, especially if you're playing equipment.

This is what I assembled but it hasn't been tested or optimized and I haven't thought of much SB outside Flusterstorm, ZP, Surgical and Choke.

3 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Ramunap Excavator
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 other fetches
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Forest
1 Plains

pettdan
01-23-2018, 02:22 PM
@Maharis: I like Bitterblossom too. I actually tried two Jitte and two Bitterblossom over the Stoneforge package about a month ago but it wasn't overwhelmingly good. May try again.

maharis
01-23-2018, 02:30 PM
@Maharis: I like Bitterblossom too. I actually tried two Jitte and two Bitterblossom over the Stoneforge package about a month ago but it wasn't overwhelmingly good. May try again.

I don't think it's a maindeckable card (and believe me I've tried). But it is a good card out of the board against grindier decks. It often catches people by surprise.

Schryver
01-23-2018, 03:00 PM
I like the BitterBlossom idea. Good excuse to buy one for my tokens deck too lol

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Cpt-Qc
01-23-2018, 10:49 PM
Working towards the lock is one game plan. You need to work with what you draw, usually I think you try to pressure them by playing 1-2 threats and not overcommitting into Terminus. That's the first game plan. Try to save resources to beat a landed Jace. Like, having an equipment in play and saving a fetch is good, arbor gets quasi haste. Sword of l&s protects it from stp though so that's a consideration. Tracker is nice, I would try to pull out a swords and a snapcaster then hope to get the opponent to have to terminus it, so I can get it back with a gsz. Card advantage is important, but it's very hard to keep up with miracles there. If you can get a Karakas your Thalias will be more of a threat since you can protevt them without overcommitting. Slowing down their cantrips is good.

From the sideboard there is thoughtseize which can help you disrupt the opponent enough to get a win. Probably a bit controversial. The chokes are game winners, planeswalkers too.. If you want to beat them regularly you need practice and probably adjusting the deck, I spent a long time doing that before the top ban and i still tended to lose tight games.

Every time I get a choke down I get a game. Doesn't mean I'll win the match but resolved choke = insta win.

Dreadnaught33
01-24-2018, 07:27 AM
Hey guys- if any of you play the version with 4x hierarch and more leovold, can you talk about what might make this better vs mom and SFM? In my sort of novice with the deck head, Mom seems great sometimes but there are times on turn one I wish she was a dork to ramp. I’d love to hear people’s thoughts, I see it was mentioned earlier in the thread but I’m wondering if we can flesh it out a bit.

Rancor85
01-25-2018, 08:25 PM
This is my current list. I am trying Thalia main deck, but I don't normally play it main deck. The addition of the planeswalker in my board is because of the number of miracle players and 4cc players in my meta game. I've been playing punishing maverick for many years and the deck has plenty of room for tweaking cards for a given meta game.


Maindeck (60)
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
1 Bayou
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard (15)
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Crop Rotation
2 Pyroblast
2 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog


I like this list. I lost my win and in at a "win a tabernacle" tournament, got the pair down. My opponent couldn't make top 8 but dream crushed me anyway. That being said, I lost to storm and had a couple tuff spots not having thalia because I was on pfire. I thought that it was one or the other but I can see where it wouldn't be that bad of a set back given the matchups it improves. I'm going to try this list out preparing for Worcester. Any help with sideboarding would be helpful. I've just started down the maverick road from playing turbo depths. Really like playing more magic with this deck but I still get to keep some of the crazy combo.

Dreadnaught33
01-26-2018, 08:17 AM
Working towards the lock is one game plan. You need to work with what you draw, usually I think you try to pressure them by playing 1-2 threats and not overcommitting into Terminus. That's the first game plan. Try to save resources to beat a landed Jace. Like, having an equipment in play and saving a fetch is good, arbor gets quasi haste. Sword of l&s protects it from stp though so that's a consideration. Tracker is nice, I would try to pull out a swords and a snapcaster then hope to get the opponent to have to terminus it, so I can get it back with a gsz. Card advantage is important, but it's very hard to keep up with miracles there. If you can get a Karakas your Thalias will be more of a threat since you can protevt them without overcommitting. Slowing down their cantrips is good.

From the sideboard there is thoughtseize which can help you disrupt the opponent enough to get a win. Probably a bit controversial. The chokes are game winners, planeswalkers too.. If you want to beat them regularly you need practice and probably adjusting the deck, I spent a long time doing that before the top ban and i still tended to lose tight games.

Thanks for everybody's tips. I actually managed to win 4 out of 4 games vs miracles last night using the leovold heavy version and the tips you guys gave. More testing and tournament reports to come from me. I’ll at least be the legacy player in some of the team events to come.

Dreadnaught33
01-28-2018, 09:47 AM
Sorry for all the posts and questions from me, but I'm really trying to ramp up learning this deck for SCG team constructed in May of this year-

1) Is there a really good writeup or podcast of how to play each matchup? Including lines of play to take, side boarding etc.?

2) Any really solid videos you guys know with pro level players or just excellent players piloting the deck? Preferably the 'abzan leovold' type version.

Btw, I got completely punished yesterday vs Red D and T, Magus SMOKED me. Need to learn how to play the new D and T lists better.....

Thanks!

Cpt-Qc
01-28-2018, 10:24 AM
That version of the deck is pretty new and legacy coverage isn't the best so I doubt you'll find much covering on this deck. Nevertheless, so long as you are not playing the punishing fire version (which is extremely different) any maverick build should play very similarly. All versions are toolbox decks with hatebears and a land package after all.

As for RW taxes, you should smoke that MU in a heartbeat so long as you are able to get basics/mana dork before they moon you :rolleyes:. Once you have 1 forest and 1 plains you can get anything through casting or GSZ so, like the og DnT, you just need to get pridemage and blow his stuff. Your biggest concern will be flying creatures but that is always a concern for us since we have very few ways to interact with them. On the other hand, they should be playing less Miran Crusaders so that's a good thing. That version should still be pretty weak to Zealous Persecution (MoM, Flickerwisp, Thalia, Pia and Kiran, etc) or any other wrath effect you might be playing.

pettdan
01-28-2018, 10:40 AM
2) Any really solid videos you guys know with pro level players or just excellent players piloting the deck? Preferably the 'abzan leovold' type version.

Keep asking, no need to appologize! I watch few streams and never saw the deck in a large tournament, but I did see jmilia playing it on mtgo on twitch so you can find his videos there. Not the pro level material you requested but it's something.

mgrinshpon
01-28-2018, 10:21 PM
I'm not seeing a lot of discussion about just straight Punishing Maverick but I'd like to point out that it's still great. Just played some side events at SCG Phil and the deck is still a beast. This is where I'm at- https://deckbox.org/sets/1909286- same as http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20612-Deck-GW-x-Maverick&p=1027539&viewfull=1#post1027539 - but with a few sideboard changes that have been working quite well.

Cut Elspeth, Knight Errant in favor of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. I feel like people are realizing that Zealous Persecution and Golgari Charm are really good and the mana dorks in non-black DRS lists are particularly susceptible. It is worse against D&T and Karakas decks in general, but better against almost everything else, and the D&T matchup already feels fine so I feel comfortable losing a few percentage points there.
Cut a REB for a second Qasali for the D&T and quad-bridge Moon Stompy matchup, though maybe it should just be a second Ethersworn Canonist.


I've found that Elves is a difficult matchup despite the seemingly good cards post-board. The issue is that they can combo off before I can leverage the PFire engine, get a Jitte online, or cast a Fiery Justice. Is it worth running something as narrow as Blazing Volley or is there some secret tech in WRG that I'm not aware of for the matchup that might be generically good in other matchups?

Barachai
01-29-2018, 06:55 AM
I've found that Elves is a difficult matchup despite the seemingly good cards post-board. The issue is that they can combo off before I can leverage the PFire engine, get a Jitte online, or cast a Fiery Justice. Is it worth running something as narrow as Blazing Volley or is there some secret tech in WRG that I'm not aware of for the matchup that might be generically good in other matchups?

Granger Guildmage is pretty good.

mgrinshpon
01-29-2018, 07:58 AM
Granger Guildmage is pretty good.Holy shit, that's amazing! A stone cold killer against D&T and Young Pyromancer, too

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

Fatal
01-29-2018, 10:26 AM
Holy shit, that's amazing! A stone cold killer against D&T and Young Pyromancer, too

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
Add Strixes and all threads from infect.

Rascalyote
01-30-2018, 07:03 AM
Back on Thoughtseize main, it's the list that's been performing best for me and I'm going to be sticking with this 75 to prepare for the GP instead of changing my list every other day.

4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Wasteland
-23-
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
-21-
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-16-

---

1 Liliana, The Last Hope
1 Garruk, Relentless
2 Choke
1 Sylvan Library
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Council's Judgement
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Surgical Extraction

Swamp allows us to play more black cards without worrying about being taken off a colour. With the addition of both Decay and Thoughtseize I felt safe going down to 1 pridemage as the former cards can pick up the slack on artifact/enchantment removal as well as perform other roles. 4 Thoughtseizes more than make up for the lack of a single Thalia in combo match ups and also let us take annoying garbage like K. Command and TNN, 4 Thalia's were clunky at times anyways and having a turn 1 play for this deck is huge.

Here's some sideboard plans for some matchups I generally try to follow but don't just follow blindly, some choices could depend on their exact build obviously.

Miracles-

+1 Liliana
+1 Garruk
+2 Choke
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Tireless Tracker
+1 Gaddock Teeg
+1 Council's Judgement

-4 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Noble Hierarch
-1 Deathrite Shaman
-1 Stoneforge Mystic
-1 Umezawa's Jitte

I keep Thoughtseize in this matchup because it can help protect a teeg, can take one of their few pieces of action, or can take a brainstorm and leave their hand a mess. I feel safe cutting all the plows when I have Thoughtseize, decays, and a Council's Judgement to not get rolled by a mentor - CJ also being a card I can just cast to nail a Jace is cool too. Noble has niche cases that let me exalted down a jace and DRS is sweet but all in all I feel like mana dorks are too low impact for this matchup and I have time to just make my land drops so I trim a couple. You can make an argument for keeping Jitte in but I was getting low on cuts and it's just not as threatening an equipment as the sword. With jitte cut I also trim a SFM because it's a squire once you have your only equipment, if I was running a pro white sword it'd be here along with the 2nd SFM, but again I'd be running out of cards to cut for this matchup.

Planeswalkers are definitely great against miracles, Liliana may be a little do nothing at times but she can clean up mentor tokens (which can be very annoying tbh), snapcasters, threaten inevitability and hey maybe she'll pick up a countered creature =p. Garruk mostly makes 2/2's and sometimes kills a containment priest, I play Garruk over Gideon in my sideboard because the option of killing opposing DRS in other matchups and stuff is great to have and he's a lot easier to cast. The chokes, library, and tracker go with the planeswalkers to help give your deck a bit more oomph against them as well. 2nd Teeg lets you zenith for it after they plow your first one. You can try bringing in Surgicals and going deeper on the Teeg route by surgicaling plow but I'd rather just have other high impact cards like walkers, choke, etc.

Storm-

+2 Ethersworn Canonist
+1 Gaddock Teeg
+3 Surgical
+2 Zealous

-4 Plow
-2 SFM
-1 Jitte
-1 Sofi

The sideboard plan is a lot more straightforward for this matchup. Even if Surgical is worse vs TES than ANT it still comes in both matchups, I mean come on it's miles ahead of all the cards we're taking out. Your equipment is far too slow to be relevant and plow is mostly a life gain spell or mising some poor kid's Dark Confidant//Phyrexian Obliterator. Zealous is mostly to clear goblins but sometimes you get to win the game a turn early or 'counter' a card like pyroclasm//grapeshot. Decay and Pridemage aren't as bad as you'd think, they can hit dread of night as well as artifacts that are played beforehand to get around Thalia or discard. If they're trying to go off with LED -> LED you can even decay the first one in response to the second one and they can't really crack it (unless they're holding a past in flames kill :( ).

DnT

+2 Zealous
+1 Garruk
+1 Liliana
+1 Council's Judgement

-1 Sofi
-1 Teeg
-3 Thalia

I consider us to be highly favoured in this matchup and for it to get even better postboard. Just play the control role and kill their creatures. Connecting with a jitte is usually how this match ends on either side however it's much easier for us to connect with ours because we play a lot more removal and mom on white goes through all their creatures except revoker where we have both green and white creatures so they can't do the same as easily. I usually don't bother killing vial because it puts them down a card and we can continue to just 1for1 them and kill them with our superior card quality. Thoughtseize also helps deal with vial tricks and their tutors, and those along with 4 plows mean we hopefully won't get rolled by mirran crusader. This is one of the matchups you'll be happy to be playing the swamp as our black cards are so good here.

Most Delver-

+2 Choke
+2 Zealous Persecution
+1 Council's Judgement

-1 Gaddock Teeg
-1 Qasali Pridemage
-2 Stoneforge Mystic
-1 Thoughtseize

This is obviously the one with most variance, say for instance their playing a 75 that's a bit slower and your walkers would be really good against you can try cutting your Thalia's for the 4th Thoughtseize back and your walkers and playing a control deck against them like against DNT(Thalia also usually matches up pretty poorly against their creatures).No matter how exactly you board the main point is to just survive and land a huge Knight that womps them. CJ, Zealous, and TS to an extent allow you do deal with TNN. I cut SFM because it's really slow and clunky to go "stoneforge" next turn "put equipment into play" then next turn "equip - oh my guy died" or worse they Cabal Therapied you. Thoughtseize is good to just mess up their hand. 1 Threat? take it. 1 piece of protection for their threat? Take it. 1 piece of removal for your knight? You get the idea, whatever their low on Thoughtseize will take and it'll give you information on how to proceed and what you need to play around. You play a bunch of cheap interaction and removal to get later into the game where you have a bunch of haymakers like choke, equipment, or 8 virtual copes of Knight.

Pile

+2 Choke
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Liliana
+1 Garruk
+1 Council's
+1 Tracker

-1 Teeg
-3 Thalia
-1 Pridemage
-2 Plow

"you seem to cut Thalia a lot, why not just play punishing maverick if you hate her" =p. To be honest I haven't played this matchup since I cut Marit Lage, used to have that carry me and ignore all the Leovold card advantage garbage. Plow isn't the greatest but plowing DRS helps with cutting them off a colour and sometimes you have to plow a strix or leovold as much as it hurts. I cut Thalia's because I bring in quite a lot of spells again and she just feels too low impact for a matchup that's going to devolve into a grind fest. The planeswalkers and enchantments are big threats, this matchup is one of the big reasons why Liliana is in the sideboard, she munches on birdies and casters all day, creatures actually go to your yard in this control matchup, and the ultimate is a huge threat. Thankfully she can + and target nothing so if they have Leovold you can tick her up, you'll just need some creatures to get in his way if it comes down to that. Bring in the Zealous Persecutions if they have True Name (or even if you suspect them of having it), you can cut more plows/TS to make room for them, also cleans up strixes and makes your 1/2's or better beat Leo in combat.

Elves-

+2 Ethersworn Canonist
+1 Gaddock Teeg
+2 Zealous Persecution
+1 Liliana
+1 Garruk
+1 Councils Judgement

-3 Thalia
-1 Sofi
-1 Pridemage
-3 Mother of Runes

Mother has her uses like protecting hate bears from decay as well getting a jitte'd creature through pesky little insects but we have other ways to do that and I'd rather have something more proactive so there's honestly no better cuts than our mom. Again in this matchup it's important to know we're the control deck. Thoughtseize helps protect our creatures like mom but also rips out key cards (*cough Glimpse cough*) like their payoff spell, their way to get rolling, their way to stop our jitte etc. The plan is to 1for1 or hatebear them until we can set up something like a jitte or liliana. Zealous can also set them back quite a bit or just kill them at times. We bring in every card that kills creatures so that includes Garruk even if 4 mana kill a guy seems like a lot he's great at killing a card and being a threat at the same time while we continue to 1for1 them out, he can even tutor for something like a canonist or teeg if the game gets weird.

Skizz
01-30-2018, 09:36 AM
hey, does anyone has expirience with the utility land rogues passage?

im thinking of another way of forcing damage through TNN / Strix / Elves / etc. etc.
i havent tried it yet but im thinking of it often. i think it can be great lategame but until then it only produces useless mana...

pettdan
01-30-2018, 10:00 AM
@Skizz: at least Megadeus was playing it, maybe he'll get around soon to comment on it.

Edit: apparently just logged in. You can always use the search thread option btw for the old thread.

ewong5
01-30-2018, 02:47 PM
@rascalyote I’m liking the main board thoughtseize (rather than splashing blue for Leo) but I think 3 might be more ideal as it isn’t the best late game top deck. If you were to shave to 3, would you mainboard tireless tracker?or a different 3 drop?

Re SB planeswalkers, I’ve been testing Nissa Vital Force and she’s been really good against miracles/ blue match ups. She makes threats, recurs, and draws cards but 5 cmc can be costly sometimes, I haven’t had luck finding a liliana last hope for the last few weeks but I’d like to test a 3 drop walker

Rascalyote
01-30-2018, 07:02 PM
@rascalyote I’m liking the main board thoughtseize (rather than splashing blue for Leo) but I think 3 might be more ideal as it isn’t the best late game top deck. If you were to shave to 3, would you mainboard tireless tracker?or a different 3 drop?

Re SB planeswalkers, I’ve been testing Nissa Vital Force and she’s been really good against miracles/ blue match ups. She makes threats, recurs, and draws cards but 5 cmc can be costly sometimes, I haven’t had luck finding a liliana last hope for the last few weeks but I’d like to test a 3 drop walker

Yeah i was playing 3 before but you can play tracker or library in it's place, I know its a pretty bad top deck but its so good turn 1 that i wanted to try the 4th and we play more creatures than most decks and zenith shuffling back helps a bit in us top decking dudes in a topdeck war

5 mana is a lot but ive played ajani mentor of heroes before so who am I to say that haha. Every time i look at a 5 drop i think "well for 1 more mana i can play something silly like Elspeth suns champion" but i never actually do, she'd destroy nic fit though =p

pettdan
01-31-2018, 08:26 AM
This very good tournament report was posted on Reddit, linked on Discord and I thought I'd add it here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/7u6hwh/tournament_report_channel_fireball_4k_10th_place/

Megadeus
01-31-2018, 10:56 AM
hey, does anyone has expirience with the utility land rogues passage?

im thinking of another way of forcing damage through TNN / Strix / Elves / etc. etc.
i havent tried it yet but im thinking of it often. i think it can be great lategame but until then it only produces useless mana...

This card has won me many games. It's definitely necessary to have cradle with it though. I think of it as my version of Dark Depths package because DD package isn't that good imo. It's best in big time board stalls, but you can push through some damage in the mid game, and people never play around it. I know there was one game where my opponent reanimated Iona and put themselves to 2 when I had teeg out naming I think white. I was pretty screwed based on my hand but I drew passage, make teeg unblockable and won. I think the best it's ever been for me was at Grand Prix Louisville last year:

"I don't remember anything but the third game. He has vial but only 1 land and I'm feeling great. Put BSkull with Jitte. He vials in Crusader for the blowout, but it's all good. Then he takes over with Palace Jailer, plus being the monarch. He has Revoker on my Jitte, BSkull, Crusader, Moms, Serra Avenger, vial, lands and is the monarch. I top decked a Knight the turn before and put batterskull on it. He's at 13 and I'm at about 22, but I'm basically dead. I rip Scryb Ranger for the turn. Do some math. Attack with Knight with batterskull, before blocks, activate getting a fetch, fetch, flash in scryb ranger, untap knight, activate knight, get Rogue's Passage, make knight unblockable and watch my opponents face simply drop as I hit him for 15."

He told me after the game that he couldn't beaten Sejeri Steppe, or basically any land I could have possibly gotten except that one. The card is insane in those DnT and Stone blade match ups where you just need to bust past a sea of dudes or a true name fest.

Skizz
02-01-2018, 08:53 AM
@Megadeus: thank you for your input regarding rogues passage! how does your manabase look like when playing with it?

i will probably play this list on the next 3 events in my area and tune it for MKM Rome:
(or maybe i just throw mother and sfm back in the deck, we`ll see :laugh:)

i like the idea of empty my hand on turn 2 and overwhelm my opponent

cute cards i have also in mind are Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Sigarda - with the Manaboost from Cobra this could be great!

Maindeck:
1 Forrest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaeas Cradle
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradies
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Lotus Cobra
4 Thalia,GoT
1 Qasal Pridemage
1 Scrybranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Tireless Tracker
2 Renegade Rallier
2 Leovold, EoT
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Suns Zenith
2 Umezawas Jitte

Sideboard:
3 Zealous Persecution (maybe 2 ZP / 1 Toxic)
2 Choke
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Liliana the Last Hope
1 Diabolic Edict

Megadeus
02-01-2018, 10:33 AM
This is the list I got day 2 of Grand Prix last year (no byes) with and went undefeated in this tourney for a Mox into top 8. This is before top ban, but I think the mana base at the very least would be the same. The Main Board BSkull at the time was a concession to Eldrazi being big. I don't usually play the Skull in Maverick

https://mtgdecks.net/Legacy/maverick-decklist-by-josh-hand-675588

Skizz
02-01-2018, 10:57 AM
that is great! i can imagine to swap a canopy for passage before any other land.
will try this. thank you! :cool:

Thunderknight
02-04-2018, 02:18 PM
Yesterday, I came in 1st Place after 7 rounds of swiss of 80 players for the MTG First Game Center with Punishing Maverick.
I will be doing a LIVE Tournament Report on Wednesday, 2/8, at 7pm EST on either tinychat or twitch. Will figure that out later.

Dreadnaught33
02-04-2018, 10:46 PM
Yesterday, I came in 1st Place after 7 rounds of swiss of 80 players for the MTG First Game Center with Punishing Maverick.
I will be doing a LIVE Tournament Report on Wednesday, 2/8, at 7pm EST on either tinychat or twitch. Will figure that out later.

Congrats! Look forward to it!

Cpt-Qc
02-05-2018, 01:23 AM
Yesterday, I came in 1st Place after 7 rounds of swiss of 80 players for the MTG First Game Center with Punishing Maverick.
I will be doing a LIVE Tournament Report on Wednesday, 2/8, at 7pm EST on either tinychat or twitch. Will figure that out later.

Boo splitters, we never got to see a top 8!!! :mad:

But really graz hehe :tongue:

Stuart
02-05-2018, 11:24 AM
Yesterday, I came in 1st Place after 7 rounds of swiss of 80 players for the MTG First Game Center with Punishing Maverick.
I will be doing a LIVE Tournament Report on Wednesday, 2/8, at 7pm EST on either tinychat or twitch. Will figure that out later.

Congrats on the finish! Interested to hear your report.

Thunderknight
02-07-2018, 11:45 AM
https://www.twitch.tv/tkmaverick25

I know I said 7pm. However there has been a change. SO I will be starting at 2pm

Dreadnaught33
02-07-2018, 06:24 PM
https://www.twitch.tv/tkmaverick25

I know I said 7pm. However there has been a change. SO I will be starting at 2pm

Is there a way to watch this at this point? Was planning to tune in at 7.

haganbmj
02-07-2018, 06:58 PM
Is there a way to watch this at this point? Was planning to tune in at 7.

Not through twitch it looks like.
@Thunderknight, you'd need to go into your settings and enable the storage of past broadcasts.
https://help.twitch.tv/customer/portal/articles/1575302-videos-on-demand (under Enabling VOD Saving).

Rancor85
02-09-2018, 01:15 PM
Yesterday, I came in 1st Place after 7 rounds of swiss of 80 players for the MTG First Game Center with Punishing Maverick.
I will be doing a LIVE Tournament Report on Wednesday, 2/8, at 7pm EST on either tinychat or twitch. Will figure that out later.

I didn't get a chance to see the stream. I'm interested in looking at your list. I have been playing pun maverick for the last couple months but picked up the cards for all the other versions. I just haven't seen a reason to play anyother version of the deck in the current competitive meta. Am I wrong in being so dismissive of the other more conventional lists?

Cpt-Qc
02-09-2018, 02:11 PM
I didn't get a chance to see the stream. I'm interested in looking at your list. I have been playing pun maverick for the last couple months but picked up the cards for all the other versions. I just haven't seen a reason to play anyother version of the deck in the current competitive meta. Am I wrong in being so dismissive of the other more conventional lists?

Maverick is a deck that benefits greatly from being tuned to a specific meta. If yours is filled with Miracles and 4c Control lists then the red version is probably the right call. On the other hand, if you see a good amount of combo, you probably want a more streamlined version with mainboard Thalias.

The same advice applies to your hatebear choice: Don't just copy a list, adapt it to your meta. The deck being a toolbox one allows us to shape it exactly how we need it to be.

menloe
02-09-2018, 04:55 PM
Am I wrong in being so dismissive of the other more conventional lists?

The only thing you should be dismissive of RE the other versions of Maverick is the name "Abzan Leovold." Everything else is a matter of preference and meta and how much you hate yourself.

Cpt-Qc
02-09-2018, 05:30 PM
The only thing you should be dismissive of RE the other versions of Maverick is the name "Abzan Leovold." Everything else is a matter of preference and meta and how much you hate yourself.

Do you prefer Punishing Abzan Leovold? :cool:

Warden
02-09-2018, 10:53 PM
I didn't get a chance to see the stream. I'm interested in looking at your list. I have been playing pun maverick for the last couple months but picked up the cards for all the other versions. I just haven't seen a reason to play anyother version of the deck in the current competitive meta. Am I wrong in being so dismissive of the other more conventional lists?

This is a very intelligent question but unfortunately none of us can answer it directly. In short, a 4 color maverick deck winning in the meta is worth examining. I wouldn’t call you “wrong” by casting aside more conventional offerings because nothing else is really placing. The flip side (and the reason the answer is complicated) is because Maverick is also seeing limited play. It’s hard to put up numbers when people aren’t running the deck a lot.

My own take on the format right now is that nothing aside from Burn (red), Eldrazi (colorless), and Dredge (free/colorless) is mono-colored. Death and Taxes is mostly white but even they are shifting to red variants or three color concoctions. I bring this up because a traditional GW list can probably thrive right now. Vial lists can certainly do damage. I’ve been thinking about going back to what makes the deck work: Thalia, mana denial, and Knight backed by Mom and Zenith. I think ghost quarter is criminally underrated right now because manabases are SO fragile. Likewise, Deathrite is the glue for most top decks. He’s fairly easy to eliminate or deny. We have more than enough toys in Scooze, Mindcensor, Prelate, Teeg, and Leovold to play the denial game across the whole format. The two things I question are 1) does SFM do enough in this meta? 2) How do we beat fast combo (the chunk of the meta that isn’t fair)?

menloe
02-10-2018, 01:31 PM
Do you prefer Punishing Abzan Leovold? :cool:

Lol. I would register Maverick w/ Leovold as Captain Cool Mint and the Righteous Dudettes.

Cpt-Qc
02-10-2018, 05:05 PM
Lol. I would register Maverick w/ Leovold as Captain Cool Mint and the Righteous Dudettes.

If only SCG showcased the names people register their deck as...

Dreadnaught33
02-11-2018, 12:05 PM
Hey all-

I'm going to be the legacy player for the SCG team event in baltimore in May, and I'm wondering which of these builds you guys would take and start grinding. I have no team event experience and therefor no idea what types of decks ppl bring (e.g. more easy win combo or more delver/pile type decks, etc.).

Here are the options I'm considering:

1) Stock Abzan list, possibly with the trop splash for leovold (This is the one I normally use)
2) Abzan list but cutting SFM and just doing 2 Jittes for more blue splash and mana dorks and/or dark depths.
3) Punishing splash black for DRS, still use thalia
4) Punishing like the list Mister Tyrik Strachan won with, which has no thalia at all and the depths combo.

Any thoughts are welcomed here, I want to settle on a list now and have 3 months of heavy testing before the event, and I'll likely be doing SCG richmond in September too. Thanks in advance!

Thunderknight
02-11-2018, 12:12 PM
The stream didn't save properly to Twitch as I can't find it anywhere. (My bad, I will be much more prepared for the future).

To answer @Rancor85 question. It really depends on you meta. My philisophy of magic in general is this:
There are thee categorizes when it comes down to favorbility (Yes I made up this word) ; Section A (I'm mostly favored against this deck), Section B (I'm 50/50 favored against this deck), and Section C (I"m most unfavored against this deck).

I took that mindset and applied it to my meta. Here are the decks that are popular in my meta IMO (Baltimore area)
1.) Grixis Delver
2.) UR Delver
3.) Death and Taxes
4.) Lands
5.) 4c Pile
6.) Sneak and Show
7.) Miracles
8.) BUG Variant (it alters between Delver and Food Chain)

I choose Punishing Maverick + DD because it has a higher percentage against fair decks, and a low percentage against unfair decks. I would rather focus on beating the decks in the A and B section, and concede to C section decks. Now that doesn't mean its an auto-loss. However, I don't really spend that many slots trying to beat those decks, because 1.) The meta isn't that combo-heavy anyways, so I can get away with that, and 2.) Grixis Delver is keeping those decks on check (Storm and Sneak and Show).

Your Meta might be different from me, but you have to make that decision for yourself. DO you want to be consistent between both fair and unfair decks? or do you want to be more favored in one instead of the other? That is your call.

Rancor85
02-11-2018, 04:55 PM
The stream didn't save properly to Twitch as I can't find it anywhere. (My bad, I will be much more prepared for the future).

To answer @Rancor85 question. It really depends on you meta. My philisophy of magic in general is this:
There are thee categorizes when it comes down to favorbility (Yes I made up this word) ; Section A (I'm mostly favored against this deck), Section B (I'm 50/50 favored against this deck), and Section C (I"m most unfavored against this deck).

I took that mindset and applied it to my meta. Here are the decks that are popular in my meta IMO (Baltimore area)
1.) Grixis Delver
2.) UR Delver
3.) Death and Taxes
4.) Lands
5.) 4c Pile
6.) Sneak and Show
7.) Miracles
8.) BUG Variant (it alters between Delver and Food Chain)

I choose Punishing Maverick + DD because it has a higher percentage against fair decks, and a low percentage against unfair decks. I would rather focus on beating the decks in the A and B section, and concede to C section decks. Now that doesn't mean its an auto-loss. However, I don't really spend that many slots trying to beat those decks, because 1.) The meta isn't that combo-heavy anyways, so I can get away with that, and 2.) Grixis Delver is keeping those decks on check (Storm and Sneak and Show).

Your Meta might be different from me, but you have to make that decision for yourself. DO you want to be consistent between both fair and unfair decks? or do you want to be more favored in one instead of the other? That is your call.

I guess I've been trying to beat everything because my meta is all over the place. I had a list that I had been tweaking but was having a hard time vs. Combo.
This is that list

Creatures (22)
1 Granger guildmage
1*Birds of Paradise
3*Deathrite Shaman
4*Knight of the Reliquary
4*Mother of Runes
1*Noble Hierarch
1*Qasali Pridemage
1 Renegade Rallier
1*Ramunap Excavator
1*Scavenging Ooze
1*Scryb Ranger
2*Stoneforge Mystic
1*Gaddock Teeg
1*Dryad Arbor
Lands (23)
1*Forest
1*Plains
1*Bayou
3*Grove of the Burnwillows
1*Plateau
2*Savannah
1*Taiga
1*Thespian's Stage
3*Wasteland
4*Windswept Heath
3*Wooded Foothills
1*Karakas
1*Dark Depths

Spells (15)
1*Sword of Fire and Ice
1*Sylvan Library
3*Punishing Fire
4*Swords to Plowshares
1*Umezawa's Jitte
4*Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard
1*Ethersworn Canonist
1 Enlightened tutor
1*Reclamation Sage
2*Choke
2*Crop Rotation
2*Pyroblast
1*Red Elemental Blast
1*Zealous Persecution
1*Sigarda, Host of Herons
1*Fiery Justice
1*Bojuka Bog
1 Armageddon

Clearly without thalia I'm going to do poorly against combo but loved having the punishing fires for delver/miracles.
I thought it was a no no playing both thalia and punishing fire in the main. I saw strassbaw's list a few pages back and have been testing it out as a reference before making my own tweaks. To my surprise the thalias haven't really been a hindrance with punishing fire. I have felt like the deck now has more of a game against everything. I have been picking up wins against combo I would normally scoop to. With a couple 1ks coming up here in New England next weekend I'm hoping to put some final tweaks on this version for the starcity open in Worcester at the beginning of March. I think that punishing fire is to good not to run at this time against the top decks I would expect to see in the next few competitive events.

Thunderknight
02-12-2018, 05:21 PM
@Rancor85.

What is your meta? I'm curious as the reasoning for running Guildmage and Renegade. Strassbaw and I come from two schools of thought when it comes to Punishing Maverick.



I guess I've been trying to beat everything because my meta is all over the place. I had a list that I had been tweaking but was having a hard time vs. Combo.
This is that list

Creatures (22)
1 Granger guildmage
1*Birds of Paradise
3*Deathrite Shaman
4*Knight of the Reliquary
4*Mother of Runes
1*Noble Hierarch
1*Qasali Pridemage
1 Renegade Rallier
1*Ramunap Excavator
1*Scavenging Ooze
1*Scryb Ranger
2*Stoneforge Mystic
1*Gaddock Teeg
1*Dryad Arbor
Lands (23)
1*Forest
1*Plains
1*Bayou
3*Grove of the Burnwillows
1*Plateau
2*Savannah
1*Taiga
1*Thespian's Stage
3*Wasteland
4*Windswept Heath
3*Wooded Foothills
1*Karakas
1*Dark Depths

Spells (15)
1*Sword of Fire and Ice
1*Sylvan Library
3*Punishing Fire
4*Swords to Plowshares
1*Umezawa's Jitte
4*Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard
1*Ethersworn Canonist
1 Enlightened tutor
1*Reclamation Sage
2*Choke
2*Crop Rotation
2*Pyroblast
1*Red Elemental Blast
1*Zealous Persecution
1*Sigarda, Host of Herons
1*Fiery Justice
1*Bojuka Bog
1 Armageddon

Clearly without thalia I'm going to do poorly against combo but loved having the punishing fires for delver/miracles.
I thought it was a no no playing both thalia and punishing fire in the main. I saw strassbaw's list a few pages back and have been testing it out as a reference before making my own tweaks. To my surprise the thalias haven't really been a hindrance with punishing fire. I have felt like the deck now has more of a game against everything. I have been picking up wins against combo I would normally scoop to. With a couple 1ks coming up here in New England next weekend I'm hoping to put some final tweaks on this version for the starcity open in Worcester at the beginning of March. I think that punishing fire is to good not to run at this time against the top decks I would expect to see in the next few competitive events.

Rancor85
02-12-2018, 08:37 PM
@Rancor85.

What is your meta? I'm curious as the reasoning for running Guildmage and Renegade. Strassbaw and I come from two schools of thought when it comes to Punishing Maverick.


The meta here in southern maine is all over the place. This week at fnm I played against Ant, lands, esper stoneblade and elves. The week before was bomberman, reanimator DnT and grixis delver.

My thought process on adding both guildmage and renegade was I could have more removal/recovery. Having a 1 drop removal creature I could green sun for seemed bonkers. He is amazing against czec pile and DnT.
Renegade was more of a bring back a wasteland or stoneforge utility play. Strassbaw's list is here and I have been doing very well with it.


Maindeck (60)
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
1 Bayou
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plains
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard (15)
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Crop Rotation
2 Pyroblast
2 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog

Boneflute
02-15-2018, 01:44 AM
So I'm putting together a DARK MAVERICK for GP Seattle, although I might play Reanimator, still deciding, and I want to build around Sanctum Prelate. After playing D&T and returning to Maverick, I realized that Sanctum Prelate is absolutely busted, and I believe that its potential remains somewhat untapped. I'm also contemplating running the tradition G/W version. Either way, I'm focusing on a creature-heavy list building around Sanctum Prelate.
Love to hear your thoughts, here's my current list. (it's a 61 card list because 24 lands is too many for a 60 card deck)

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dark Depths
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bojuka Bog


1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Mother of Runes
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ramunap Excavator
4 Knight of the Reliquary

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library

4 Green's Sun Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Abrupt Decay

Sideboard
2 Choke
2 Thoughtseize
3 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Maze of Ith
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
3 Santum Prelate
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Ethersworn Canonist

Just looking for thoughts or criticisms. Thank you.

Leonides
02-15-2018, 04:02 AM
Hi to all :)

I wanna ask you to help me with deciding witch build to chose couse i have a tournament tomoorow.
In my local store thare are not lot opf ppl playing but around 10-12
So the meta is goblins, d&t, eldrazi, merfolk, standstill/storm, ur delver ,
Maverick? and nic fit.

I thought to play gwb thespian stage depths and thoughtseize in main
Dont wanna play punishing fire, so if you can give me some advice about creatures for this meta
Thanks in advance

Skizz
02-15-2018, 09:40 AM
@Leonides:

sounds like a very fair meta - and with GWb you should be in a great position.
i dont think there is any good creature you could play beside the normal creature-list.
SFM with Jitte,Sword Fire/Ice and Batterskull and 2 Qasali Pridemage should be your best friends.

in the sideboard i would bring in Massremoval ala Zealous Persecution/Toxic Deluge
and cards like pithing needle (for Aether Vial,Krenko,Sharpshooter,Pernicious Deed,etc) and Reclamation Sage
Choke, Abrupt Decay, Sanctum Prelate etc....

Leonides
02-15-2018, 12:06 PM
Yeah, what do u think about renegade rallier in main and do you havesome experience playing it so any thoughts?
This is the list i wanna run on the related meta:

1x bayou
1x overgrown tomb
2x savannah
1x scrubland
1x horizon canopy
1x karakas
1x forest
1x plains
4x windswpth heath
4x v. Catacombs
4x wasteland
1x stage
1x depths
1x Dryad arbor
Creatures and spells
4x knight
1x birds
1x noble
3x deathrite shaman
3x sfm
3x mother
3x thalia
1x qasali pride mage
1x ooze
1x gaddock teeg
1x ramunap excavator
1x scryb ranger
4x zenith
1x thoughtseize
1xbatterskull
1x jitte
1x sword fire&ice
4x swords to plowsheres
1x abrupt decay


Side:
1x abrupt decay
2x zelouse persecution
1x deluge
2x surgical
1x cannonist
1x councila judgment
1x thalia
1x choke
1xqasali pridemage
1x sanctum prelate
1x liliana of the veil
1x thoughtseize
1x containemt pries / pithing needle

Skizz
02-16-2018, 05:20 AM
@Leonides:
i would swap the 1 Thoughtseize with the Qasali Pridemage from the Sideboard or add an Renegade Rallier in its place. (this card is pretty sweet)
then i would cut the thalia from sideboard and add an additional Canonist.
good luck to you and let us know how it works

RobNC
02-17-2018, 06:26 PM
Got 10th in a 32 man tourney today. I made some tweaks playtesting last week and played with this list today, which is by far the most consistent Maverick list I've played.

Main 61
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Ramunap Excavator

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Enchantments
1 Sylvan Library

2 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
3 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard
2 Containment Priest
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Thoughtseize
3 Zealous Persecution
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pithing Needle
2 Choke

R1: Burn
G1: Stabilized at 2 life with a Jitte, opponent ended up scooping.
G2: Opponent kept a hand with some Smash in it, got me to 8 life. I get 2 Knights on board, swing in, Wasteland all of my non-basics which makes each Knight an 8/8. I'm at 8 life and opponent can only deal me 7 so he scoops.

R2: RUG Lands
G1: Opponent draws poorly and I go to town with Knight beatdown.
G2: Similar to G1
We played an extra game afterwards and he stomped me, so I certainly got lucky.

R3: TES
G1: Opponent Burning Wishes for Petition, looking to get Empty, but forgot Empty was in his graveyard thanks to LED. He scoops.
G2: I keep a hand with Persecution; opponent manages to T2 me with Tendrils.
G3: I keep a hand with Mom and 2x Thalia. Opponent manages to T1 me with a no lander. What can ya do? *shrug*

R4: RW D&T
G1: I get mana screwed and he does the D&T thing. I scoop to active equipment when I fail to find a third land.
G2: I play D&T better than he does and get mana denial going thanks to Pithing Needle on Vial. Qasali Pridemage beatdown!
G3: He doesn't see a Vial and only non-basics so I wasteland him out of the game. Thanks Ramunap Excavator!

R5: D&T
G1: T1 Vial, T2 Revoker naming my Pridemage. Ends up getting a Jitte active on a Serra Avenger and I lose.
G2: Exact same start for him. I manage to stay in the game quite a bit longer thanks to Persecution but he gets both Avenger and Mirran Crusader on board and I punted with a bad attack which lost me the game on the return swing.



I didn't feel like I could've done anything different with the TES matchup, but I definitely punted the D&T matchup. Still happy with the build, though.

MysteryE
02-17-2018, 10:54 PM
Hello everyone! I went to Legacy 1K at Gaming etc. on February 17th, there were 90+ people who showed up. It was upgraded to a 2k.
I made 9th place winning ($50), and I did not know if I could draw in the last round to make top 8 so I played it out losing in the last round going 5-2.

My deck list is Abzan Maverick

Creatures 24
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Thalia, guardian of thraben
2 stoneforge mystic
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 renegade rallier
3 knight of the reliquary
1 tireless tracker
1 scryb ranger
4 mother of runes
1 gaddock teeg
1 qasali pridemage
1 ramunap excavator
1 noble hierarch
1 scavenging ooze


Instant
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to plowshares

Sorcery
4 Green sun's zenith
1 vindicate

artifacts
1 umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

Enchantments
1 Sylvan library

Lands 22
1 snow-covered plains
2 forest
1 maze of ith
2 savannah
2 bayou
1 karakas
1 marsh flats
4 windswept heath
4 wasteland
1 horizon canopy
2 verdant catacombs
1 wooded foothills


Sideboard
3 leyline of the void
1 golgari charm
2 zealous persecution
2 containment priest
1 choke
1 garruk relentless
1 ethersworn canonist
1 gaddock teeg
1 reclamation sage
2 warmth


Big shout out to Ol'e Arty from the maverick's discord channel, he took time out of his night to help me make this decklist with the cards I owned. Only thing I did different was add the sword of fire and ice to the main making it a 61 main board. He helped me a great deal if you are reading this thank you!

Rounds out of 7
1: 2-0 Grixis Pyromancer
2: 2-1 Topless Miracles
3: 2-1 Bug Control
4: 1-2 Renimator
5: 2-0 4c control
6: 2-1 Storm
7: 1-2 Mono Red Sneak attack
overall record 5-2 out of seven rounds I made 9th place

Note: There were a lot of people at 15 points in the last round my opponent and I played it out sadly I lost, and about 10-15 minutes later another guy lost on the left of me. The group sitting to my right after playing, and having a winner decided to just draw after the fact that myself and another guy lost in the last round. After they did that it placed both of them in top 8 at 16 points. I had 15...I guess I am just salty because they almost waited to see who was drawing in and who played so they could just draw to get in top 8. I can understand if you draw from the start but they played it out had a winner, and split because they knew 2 other people had lost which I was one of them, putting themselves in top 8 which I don't know if any of that is even legal...

This will be pretty quick because I did not write enough notes for every move game its just bits of what I can remember.
Round 1 Grixis- I won the die roll
G1 he mulled to 5, conceded to a thalia, mother, and a knight.
G2 game 2 was pretty quick with lockout with thalia, mother and a knight waste land stopped him.
2-0

Round 2 Topless Miracles- I won the die roll
Game 1 I lost just grinded me to death out drawing and beating me with snap caster
Game 2 I was able to lock him out of the game with teeg, mother, and just beat him with my dryad arbor with excavator.
Game 3 ended pretty quick thalia, into a countered teeg, I green sun'ed the next turn for a teeg, and he just was shut off the game that and I wasted his dual colored lands which was his tundra. The game ended quick
Win 2-1

Round 3 Bug Control- I won the die roll
Game 1 Wastelanded him out of the game, I was able to excavator him out to 14 he had 2 basics and simply toxic for 4, he then was behind i flooded the table with knights and a thalia.
Game 2 Simply reverse he waste landed me out I did not get to many basics by the time I was able to pick it up he just had it with his land that can animate and be a 2/2 for 1.
Game 3 my opponent mulled to 6, I don't remember what really happened at the end I was at 19, and he had 12 life I am sure I just beat him with double knight. I wasted his lands he only had the blue/black land that turns into the 3/2 creature...he was pretty much locked from playing.
Win 2-1

Round 4 Red Black Reanimator- He won the die roll...
Game 1 he entombed at the end of my turn, and griselbrand I was able to get karakas but the 5/6 flying Annex just beat me.
Game 2 we both mulled to 5, I played a turn 1 deathrite...he didn't do anything with 1 land...eventually I got a leyline of the void he conceded
Game 3 I mulled to 5, he turn 1 went after the 7/11 shroud trample island walk leviathin and I almost picked it up
he was at 9 and I couldn't stop both that and the sire
Lost 1-2

Round 5 4 color control- I won the die roll on an odds or evens call.
Game 1 he was on 4 color control he had removal for days until he just ran dry and I wasted his trop, volcanic, and something else..sword of fire and ice put it on my scryb ranger it was riding it to victory.
Game 2 we were going back and forth again he just had removal for days eventually I got sylvan library on board, he abrupted it I had choke on board too... I was able to draw a fetch play it, and play renegade rallier, getting sylvan library back to the field. He killed the rallier a few turns later my board with choke and sylvan...he had jace on 9 I drew a Vindicate. I played the stoneforge mystic from hand he said it was good...I blew up his jace and he eventually conceded sword of fire and ice was great.
Win 2-0

Round 6 Storm- I lost the die roll I called odd it was even...
Game 1 it was pretty fast, he Gitaxian probed me, and duress. I was able to turn 1 mother. His turn 2 he did nothing, on my turn played thalia..a few turns later a deathrite he conceded.
Game 2 I thought he was some control deck..he stormed off on his turn 2. I lost...
Game 3 my opponent mulled to 5, mother turn 1, turn 2 thalia, he messed up somehow. I played t3 Teeg that was the end of that. He said he could have won but I did not see it... the lockout was pretty hard I was stuck on 2 mana 5 turns later...
Win 2-1

Round 7 Mono Red Sneak Attack- I won the die roll
Game 1 I played none basic lands instead of fetching I suffered for it his turn 2 Blood moon locked me out with 2 fetch in hand...I had a sylvan but it didn't save me he Sneak and showed the 15/15 wurm and I lost 1 turn later after he had 3 wurms 5/5's with trample
Game 2 my opponent mulled to 6, I quickly fetched for a plains played mother. He had the turn 1 bloodmoon, I played T2 thalia, T3 stoneforge to get Batterskull won.
Game 3 He was on the play turn 1 blood moon...GG I guess on his turn 3 he cast seething song that adds 5 red to the pool, he then played simian spirit guide netting him 6 mana playing Inferno titan. 2 Turns later it was over. GG...
Lost 1-2

Overall The deck ran GREAT, it has been about a year or 2 since I have played Legacy at an official event. I think I could have won my last round had I played my fetches instead and go after basic lands. I had enough gas to break backs, but when you get locked out game 3 with turn 1 bloodmoon you just lose.... Anyway if you have any questions please ask..I realize this is poor in terms of what happened in my matches it is a quick run down. Thanks for reading and good luck out there!

Seraphix
02-19-2018, 09:26 AM
I played Punishing Maverick in back to back events last Saturday and Sunday and placed 11th and 2nd in them respectively.

There were a few unusual sideboard cards I wanted to test so I ended up playing the same 75 in both events:

Creatures (22)
4x Mother of Runes
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary

Noncreature Spells (15)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Punishing Fire
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull

Lands (23)
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Savannah
2x Taiga
1x Plateau
1x Forest
1x Plains
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
3x Wasteland
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas

SB: 2x Surgical Extraction
SB: 2x Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2x Choke
SB: 2x Crop Rotation
SB: 1x Bojuka Bog
SB: 1x Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1x Reclamation Sage
SB: 1x Voice of Resurgence
SB: 1x Kitchen Finks
SB: 1x Dromoka's Command
SB: 1x Sword of Fire and Ice



Event 1: 2k, 95 players (same event as MysteryE above)

Round 1: UR Delver (2-1)
Round 2: Punishing Dack Control (0-2)
Round 3: Mono-Red Human Stompy (2-0)
Round 4: Infect (2-0)
Round 5: Mono-Red Sneak Attack (2-0)
Round 6: Czech Pile (2-1)
Round 7: Grixis Delver (0-2)
Final Record: 5-2, 11th place


Event 2: 1k, 57 players

Round 1: Burn (2-0)
Round 2: UB Mill (2-1)
Round 3: T.E.S. (2-1)
Round 4: Elves (0-2)
Round 5: Junkblade (2-0)
Round 6: Canadian Threshold (2-1)
Quarterfinal: BUG Shardless Aluren (2-1)
Semifinal: Manaless Dredge (2-1)
Final: Grixis Delver (1-2)
Final Record: 7-2, 2nd place

Mr. Safety
02-19-2018, 09:49 AM
I was your Junk Stoneblade opponent r5. I really need to practice that matchup! I think if I had sideboarded my Surgicals I could have dealt with PFire. I ended up boarding in Zealous Persecution instead, which I think was a mistake. I also feel like I could have used a 3rd Decay because losing to Jitte g1 was rough. Those Scoozes must have been murder against Manaless Dredge.

I'm surprised you didn't beat Topher...Punishing Maverick is usually a good matchup against Delver.

Fatal
02-19-2018, 10:27 AM
I also played Punishing Maverick on small event (3 rounds):

List:
// 61 Maindeck
// 2 Artifact
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

// 25 Creature
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Granger Guildmage

// 7 Instant
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire

// 1 Enchantment
Sylvan Library

// 23 Land
4 Wasteland
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Plains
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Scrubland

// 4 Sorcery
4 Green Sun's Zenith


// 15 Sideboard
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage

// 7 Instant
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Blessed Alliance

// 3 Planeswalker
SB: 2 Liliana, the Last Hope
SB: 1 Nissa, Vital Force
SB: 1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

// 3 Sorcery
SB: 3 Thoughtseize

Round 1 (4c Czech Pile) 2-1 on play
Loses game 1 against turn 2 Liliana, the Last Hope with a lot of removal.
Game 2 I rolled with mine Liliana, the Last Hope - he killed all my creatures, and concede to ultimate.
Game 3 I rolled with Nissa, Vital Force which I casted turn 3 along with wasteland to dodge Deluge, had 3 mana dorks. He concede. After two punch (he mulled twice so wasn't really tide).

Round 2 (ANT) on play
Win game 1 with turn 2 Gaddock.
Loses game 2 turn 0 win with dark, dark, led, infernal, petal, fetch - god hand.
Win game 3 with Gaddock equipped with SoFI (he discarded Thalia).

Round 3 (Aggro Loam) on play
Game 1 I close him with Thalia wasteland - he keep light hand with loam which he never could cast.
Game 2 He had mox hand, with turn 1 confidant, turn 2 Knight, with loam and 1 removal. I died from knight - DD/TS he had answer for my wasteland (his waste), and removal for my blocker (scryb). Funny fact that I had Granger and StP - I used my StP against turn 1 Confidant which after we analysis was an error, I should give him a card (wasn't revelant) and use granger, he draw removal in turn 4. against my blocker, that I would save my StP for Knight. But who could guess that - answer in vacuum that StP turn 1 confidant is mistake ...
Game 3 I rolled his Knight with fast turn 3 with wasteland Chandra, knight was 4/4.. he didnt have punishing fire... then I develop, knight, knight.. was gg.

Summary:
1) Winning 3 times roll in row was nice
2) All included walkers are very good
3) Cutting Ramunap was good pick, I miss him only in one game (against Aggro Loam), but Railler was same good.
4) Replacing 1 savannah for 1 fetchland was not bad - still didnt had problems to found out lands from fetchlands even on grind matchups.

MysteryE
02-19-2018, 01:21 PM
Event 2: 1k, 57 players

Round 1: Burn (2-0)
Round 2: UB Mill (2-1)
Round 3: T.E.S. (2-1)
Round 4: Elves (0-2)
Round 5: Junkblade (2-0)
Round 6: Canadian Threshold (2-1)
Quarterfinal: BUG Shardless Aluren (2-1)
Semifinal: Manaless Dredge (2-1)
Final: Grixis Delver (1-2)
Final Record: 7-2, 2nd place

Nice job!!!!!!

Where was the 2nd event at??

Thunderknight
02-19-2018, 02:35 PM
Got 13th our of 52 players at the Breaded Dragon 2.5K Legacy Tourney.

List.
NAYA dark Maverick :

Maindeck (60)
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Voice of Resurgence
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Ramunap Excavator
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Punishing Fire
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library
1 Bayou
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden (I couldn't find a Savannah at the tournament)
1 Taiga
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard (15)
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Containment Priest
3 Crop Rotation
2 Pyroblast
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Fiery Justice
2 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog

Matchups
Round 1.) 1-2 Against Grixis Delver (Bitterblossom is real annoy when you board out your Qasali Pridemage)
Round 2.) 1-2 Against Infect (God Hand Twice)
Round 3.) 2-0 Against BUG Value
Round 4.) Bye
Round 5.) 2-1 Against Dredge
Round 6.) 2-1 Against Eldrazi

Closing thoughts:
1.) The temple garden didn't really matter at all funny enough.
2.) I'm starting to consider taking down a crop rotatation for Dromoka's Command.
3.) I don't know which is better, Containment Priest, or Sanctum Prelate

Mr. Safety
02-19-2018, 02:49 PM
Nice job!!!!!!

Where was the 2nd event at??

Scarborough, Maine at The Complex.

menloe
02-20-2018, 11:31 AM
I played Punishing Maverick in back to back events last Saturday and Sunday and placed 11th and 2nd in them respectively.

There were a few unusual sideboard cards I wanted to test so I ended up playing the same 75 in both events:

Creatures (22)
4x Mother of Runes
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary

Noncreature Spells (15)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Punishing Fire
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull

Lands (23)
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Savannah
2x Taiga
1x Plateau
1x Forest
1x Plains
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
3x Wasteland
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas

SB: 2x Surgical Extraction
SB: 2x Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2x Choke
SB: 2x Crop Rotation
SB: 1x Bojuka Bog
SB: 1x Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1x Reclamation Sage
SB: 1x Voice of Resurgence
SB: 1x Kitchen Finks
SB: 1x Dromoka's Command
SB: 1x Sword of Fire and Ice



Event 1: 2k, 95 players (same event as MysteryE above)

Round 1: UR Delver (2-1)
Round 2: Punishing Dack Control (0-2)
Round 3: Mono-Red Human Stompy (2-0)
Round 4: Infect (2-0)
Round 5: Mono-Red Sneak Attack (2-0)
Round 6: Czech Pile (2-1)
Round 7: Grixis Delver (0-2)
Final Record: 5-2, 11th place


Event 2: 1k, 57 players

Round 1: Burn (2-0)
Round 2: UB Mill (2-1)
Round 3: T.E.S. (2-1)
Round 4: Elves (0-2)
Round 5: Junkblade (2-0)
Round 6: Canadian Threshold (2-1)
Quarterfinal: BUG Shardless Aluren (2-1)
Semifinal: Manaless Dredge (2-1)
Final: Grixis Delver (1-2)
Final Record: 7-2, 2nd place

I've been meaning to ask: when do you bring in Crop Rotation? What comes out?

Stuart
02-20-2018, 12:09 PM
the Breaded Dragon

This sounds delicious.

Seraphix
02-20-2018, 12:36 PM
I was your Junk Stoneblade opponent r5. I really need to practice that matchup! I think if I had sideboarded my Surgicals I could have dealt with PFire. I ended up boarding in Zealous Persecution instead, which I think was a mistake. I also feel like I could have used a 3rd Decay because losing to Jitte g1 was rough. Those Scoozes must have been murder against Manaless Dredge.

I'm surprised you didn't beat Topher...Punishing Maverick is usually a good matchup against Delver.

I don't have experience as Junk in the matchup - but Deluge and ZP are definitely great cards against Maverick.

Ooze is definitely great vs Dredge decks and allowed me to win game 1. My opponent remarked that it was the first game 1 he lost all day.

In the final I lost game 2 to Liliana, the Last Hope + TNN, and lost game 3 on a mediocre double mulligan.


I've been meaning to ask: when do you bring in Crop Rotation? What comes out?

This varies a lot depending on your 75 and the matchup.

If playing Dark Depths, I generally bring in Crop Rotation vs: Lands, Turbo Depths, Reanimator, Dredge, Sneak & Show, Storm, Burn, Elves, and Cloudpost.

I don't have a lot of experience playing Crop Rotation without Dark Depths, but in that case the only deck I would definitely remove from the list above is Elves.

specialagentcooper
02-26-2018, 12:01 PM
Had a 24 man win-a-dual event on the weekend that I brought Maverick to. Things went my way and was able to make it to the finals where we decided to shake hands and split the prize.
Running hot with Maverick at the moment, this was the third final in a row in win-a-dual tournaments, lost in the finals last one to u/r delver, and eldrazi before that.

List:

Lands (23)
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Forest
1x Plains
2x Savannah
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Tropical Island
4x Wasteland
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor

Creatures (24)
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Qasali Pridemage
4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Leovold

Spells (13)
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Sylvan Library
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard (15)
3x Thoughtsieze
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Containment Priest
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Choke
1x Pithing Needle
1x Diabolic Edict

General Thoughts: I've been playing Maverick now for three years and have found the deck to continually provide fun interactive games of Magic.
There are always interesting lines that keep me coming back, and the double toolbox nature of the deck is able to give the deck game against the field.
One of Mavericks strengths imo is its consistency, so my deck list is pretty stock, but have added a single Leovold as it provides another strong gsz target
that can soft lock many decks. I've tried DD/stage but haven't found the drop in consistency to be worth it, and if I am activating Knight twice to get a 20/20, she should
have just been winning the game on her own. The various three drops (Rallier, Courser etc) have all felt average and when gszing most times a Knight is just seemed to be
a better target. The card in the deck I would like to replace is the 2x Stoneforge Mystics, without Batterskull I'm just not sure if the mystic is good enough. Not sure if there is something
better on the curve though.

Small Tournament Report:

R1: Vs TES

G1 Opponent on the play, went badlands into duress and missed, and played out a petal. I decided to just lead with a wasteland since I didn't have any t1 plays. T2 opponent used petal to ponder,
shuffled and missed land drop. Conceded the next turn after missing another.

Sideboarding for G2, I thought it was a reanimator deck and didn't side in the canonist and zp

G2 Opponent goes off on T3 after bouncing a Teeg. Sideboarded for TES for G3, Canonists and ZP

G3 Board state gets to me with deathrite, teeg, and noble. I have a zp in hand. Opp throws down 4 leds and wishes for a grape shot. Casts and attempts to wipe my board, I cast zp for the blowout.

R2: Vs Goblins

G1 T1 lackey, no blocker on my end, I get behind and can't stabilize.

G2 Decay on a vial, opp is stuck on 3 lands, I control and beat down

G3 Close game but I had two active Moms and opponent didn't draw action for three turns late game and I beat down.

R3: Vs RG Lands

G1 Opponent gets off to a quick start with loam and explortion but is missing wastelands. I am able to gsz for a pridemage to blow up the exploration. Long game, was able to keep him from jamming stage/dd
for long enough by forcing him to deal with open wastes and karakas, Knight beats to finish off. Opponent missed tapping down my waste with port, I think there was a turn or two that he could have got the 20/20.

G2 Surgical/deathrite in opener. Got a needle out to shut off stage, and surgicaled pfires. Both of us top decked garbage for something like 5 turns, beats with mom and dryad arbor whittled him down.

R4 & R5 ID into the Top 8

Top 8 vs U/b Reanimator

G1 too slow to interact on my end, got wrecked, should have mulliganed more aggressively since I knew what he was on.

G2 Barely held off with surgical and got a deathrite shaman active for the win

G3 Opener had two surgicals and a deathrite. Opponent couldn't deal those plus an ooze later. Easy win in G3 and into the Top 4.

Top 4 vs Grixis Delver

G1 Delver beats down to two, top decked decay. Opponent had Pyro/Tokens after that and I was able to get a jitte going and take things over. Lucky he didn't have a bolt.

G2 I was able to get out a knight and keep him off of red. He had my board down to a plains and 6/6 knight, beats for three turns while he brainstormed and pondered looking for an answer.

Finals

Was against my ride to the tourney, so we decided to shake hands and split the prize.

Dreadnaught33
02-26-2018, 05:28 PM
Had a 24 man win-a-dual event on the weekend that I brought Maverick to. Things went my way and was able to make it to the finals where we decided to shake hands and split the prize.
Running hot with Maverick at the moment, this was the third final in a row in win-a-dual tournaments, lost in the finals last one to u/r delver, and eldrazi before that.

List:

Lands (23)
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Forest
1x Plains
2x Savannah
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Tropical Island
4x Wasteland
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor

Creatures (24)
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Qasali Pridemage
4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Leovold

Spells (13)
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Sylvan Library
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard (15)
3x Thoughtsieze
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Containment Priest
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Choke
1x Pithing Needle
1x Diabolic Edict

General Thoughts: I've been playing Maverick now for three years and have found the deck to continually provide fun interactive games of Magic.
There are always interesting lines that keep me coming back, and the double toolbox nature of the deck is able to give the deck game against the field.
One of Mavericks strengths imo is its consistency, so my deck list is pretty stock, but have added a single Leovold as it provides another strong gsz target
that can soft lock many decks. I've tried DD/stage but haven't found the drop in consistency to be worth it, and if I am activating Knight twice to get a 20/20, she should
have just been winning the game on her own. The various three drops (Rallier, Courser etc) have all felt average and when gszing most times a Knight is just seemed to be
a better target. The card in the deck I would like to replace is the 2x Stoneforge Mystics, without Batterskull I'm just not sure if the mystic is good enough. Not sure if there is something
better on the curve though.

Small Tournament Report:

R1: Vs TES

G1 Opponent on the play, went badlands into duress and missed, and played out a petal. I decided to just lead with a wasteland since I didn't have any t1 plays. T2 opponent used petal to ponder,
shuffled and missed land drop. Conceded the next turn after missing another.

Sideboarding for G2, I thought it was a reanimator deck and didn't side in the canonist and zp

G2 Opponent goes off on T3 after bouncing a Teeg. Sideboarded for TES for G3, Canonists and ZP

G3 Board state gets to me with deathrite, teeg, and noble. I have a zp in hand. Opp throws down 4 leds and wishes for a grape shot. Casts and attempts to wipe my board, I cast zp for the blowout.

R2: Vs Goblins

G1 T1 lackey, no blocker on my end, I get behind and can't stabilize.

G2 Decay on a vial, opp is stuck on 3 lands, I control and beat down

G3 Close game but I had two active Moms and opponent didn't draw action for three turns late game and I beat down.

R3: Vs RG Lands

G1 Opponent gets off to a quick start with loam and explortion but is missing wastelands. I am able to gsz for a pridemage to blow up the exploration. Long game, was able to keep him from jamming stage/dd
for long enough by forcing him to deal with open wastes and karakas, Knight beats to finish off. Opponent missed tapping down my waste with port, I think there was a turn or two that he could have got the 20/20.

G2 Surgical/deathrite in opener. Got a needle out to shut off stage, and surgicaled pfires. Both of us top decked garbage for something like 5 turns, beats with mom and dryad arbor whittled him down.

R4 & R5 ID into the Top 8

Top 8 vs U/b Reanimator

G1 too slow to interact on my end, got wrecked, should have mulliganed more aggressively since I knew what he was on.

G2 Barely held off with surgical and got a deathrite shaman active for the win

G3 Opener had two surgicals and a deathrite. Opponent couldn't deal those plus an ooze later. Easy win in G3 and into the Top 4.

Top 4 vs Grixis Delver

G1 Delver beats down to two, top decked decay. Opponent had Pyro/Tokens after that and I was able to get a jitte going and take things over. Lucky he didn't have a bolt.

G2 I was able to get out a knight and keep him off of red. He had my board down to a plains and 6/6 knight, beats for three turns while he brainstormed and pondered looking for an answer.

Finals

Was against my ride to the tourney, so we decided to shake hands and split the prize.

Great report man! I've been considering cutting SFM also, and going to two jitte-- things I've considered in place of it include- ramunap excavator (3 drop i know), voice of resurgence, 2nd pridemage, 2nd ooze?, maybe even more abrupt decay or library. She provides nice card advantage right away which is cool, but yeah with so much K command around and since she does nothing vs some of our worst matchups im not sure she's worth it anymore. Curious to see if others have made the move.

Rascalyote
02-26-2018, 06:41 PM
Great report man! I've been considering cutting SFM also, and going to two jitte-- things I've considered in place of it include- ramunap excavator (3 drop i know), voice of resurgence, 2nd pridemage, 2nd ooze?, maybe even more abrupt decay or library. She provides nice card advantage right away which is cool, but yeah with so much K command around and since she does nothing vs some of our worst matchups im not sure she's worth it anymore. Curious to see if others have made the move.

I've been pretty down on Stoneforge Mystic and have been SBing her out in more matchups but I've decided to leave her in the main deck because SOFI has been too good especially as more decks start playing TNN and I stop playing Depths. K-Command is going to 2 for 1 us even if they're not nailing an equipment anyways.

In terms of other 3-drops I have a Tracker in the SB so I can sb it in for grindy matchups and have the option to zenith something that gives me card advantage even if it just dies right away.

Leonides
02-28-2018, 10:24 AM
I dunno but last tournament with dnt and eldrazi win via darkdepths stage combo i think that combo provides exit from lock situations. Expacially if opponent doesnt know about that... i thiught i miss gaes crsdle but in my situation seems better dd&stage combo :)

timmyod17
02-28-2018, 07:04 PM
I see that most lists these days run 2-3x Surgical Extraction in the sideboard.

Aside from obvious matchups where one would side them in (Dredge, Reanimator, Lands), where else do folks bring them in? Do people commonly bring them in vs Snapcaster decks (Miracles, Pile, etc.)? What about decks with some mild graveyard themes (e.g., Storm, Maverick mirror)?

Until recently I had been holding off on including Surgicals in my 75 because I haven't felt like it's worth it to use up that many sideboard slots for a few matchups (the obvious GY decks). I generally dislike the inherent card disadvantage of Surgical Extraction, but I get the sense that many people bring them for the ability to surprise fizzle a Snapcaster trigger.

Thoughts appreciated as I try to finalize my 75 and sideboard plan for SCG Worcester this weekend!

Cpt-Qc
03-01-2018, 12:54 AM
I dunno but last tournament with dnt and eldrazi win via darkdepths stage combo i think that combo provides exit from lock situations. Expacially if opponent doesnt know about that... i thiught i miss gaes crsdle but in my situation seems better dd&stage combo :)

DD/Stage is a meta call that allows us to get free wins vs non-white decks. If we look at the DTB right now, DD is very good in the following MUs: Grixis Tempo, Eldrazi Stompy, Czech Pile, Elves!. It is bad vs the following decks: UWx Miracle Control, Death and Taxes. It is neutral vs the following decks: Dark Depths, R/G Lands, Sneak and Show.

Since DnT is generally favored for maverick , the only mu that is affected is miracles which has always been a bad MU anyway. It's good vs a lot of popular decks, some of which we usually struggle to compete against (elves and czech). I'd say that now is one of the best times to be running it.

Of course if your meta is swarmed by white decks with cheap removal (read stp/pte) you probably don't want it. Maverick is best when tweaked for a specific meta.


I see that most lists these days run 2-3x Surgical Extraction in the sideboard.

Aside from obvious matchups where one would side them in (Dredge, Reanimator, Lands), where else do folks bring them in? Do people commonly bring them in vs Snapcaster decks (Miracles, Pile, etc.)? What about decks with some mild graveyard themes (e.g., Storm, Maverick mirror)?

Until recently I had been holding off on including Surgicals in my 75 because I haven't felt like it's worth it to use up that many sideboard slots for a few matchups (the obvious GY decks). I generally dislike the inherent card disadvantage of Surgical Extraction, but I get the sense that many people bring them for the ability to surprise fizzle a Snapcaster trigger.

Thoughts appreciated as I try to finalize my 75 and sideboard plan for SCG Worcester this weekend!

Surgical is a necessary evil to beat some decks (those you called specifically). Unless the game will be decided by an early critical play, you probably don't want it. I don't play it vs snapcaster decks and neither should you. It is a common sideboarding misplay to board in surgicals in every matchup.

It is technically true that there are targets in those decks but you already have DRS and scooze to deal with the graveyard. You don't want to play card disadvantage vs those value snapcaster decks. The only reason to play it would be when you expect someone to miracle a spell and there is another copy in the graveyard but in this position you're probably in a bad spot anyway. I'd rather not get there if possible because, if it gets countered, then you're just done.

Edit: Just to clarify, bringing it vs miracles is fine since we have a lot of dead cards anyway but I wouldn't bring it in vs czech pile or say grixis control.

Fatal
03-04-2018, 05:23 PM
Good news from SCG:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/4275_day_2_metagame_breakdown.html

Punishing and two Dark Maverick made day2 not sure what is punishing abzan that would've more than 5% total of day2. Question how many was in day1.

Meta is still dominating by grixis Delver and new miracles which gives more than 25% of meta.. and looks like 50% of top8. Looks like WotC will do some banning soon.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=3&start_date=03/03/2018&end_date=03/04/2018&start=1&finish=32&event_ID=20&city=Worcester&state=MA&order_1=finish&order_2=last_name&limit=50

timmyod17
03-04-2018, 06:47 PM
Good news from SCG:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/4275_day_2_metagame_breakdown.html

Punishing and two Dark Maverick made day2 not sure what is punishing abzan that would've more than 5% total of day2. Question how many was in day1.

Meta is still dominating by grixis Delver and new miracles which gives more than 25% of meta.. and looks like 50% of top8. Looks like WotC will do some banning soon.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=3&start_date=03/03/2018&end_date=03/04/2018&start=1&finish=32&event_ID=20&city=Worcester&state=MA&order_1=finish&order_2=last_name&limit=50

Hey guys, I was one of the Maverick players making day 2 at Worcester. You might have seen me getting a game loss handed to me by the judges on the stream in a match I would have won. I was undefeated after day 1 and the other GWb Maverick player started off 8-0. As mentioned, there was tons of Grixis everywhere at the top table. Sunday wasn't as kind to me, unfortunately. Will write up a semi-detailed tournament report this week when time allows.

menloe
03-04-2018, 07:28 PM
Hey guys, I was one of the Maverick players making day 2 at Worcester. You might have seen me getting a game loss handed to me by the judges on the stream in a match I would have won. I was undefeated after day 1 and the other GWb Maverick player started off 8-0. As mentioned, there was tons of Grixis everywhere at the top table. Sunday wasn't as kind to me, unfortunately. Will write up a semi-detailed tournament report this week when time allows.

I was pulling for you m8. Bummed about the game loss, but I was stoked to see Mav at 5-0 (I think? Living the Miller High Life yesterday afternoon lol).

Cpt-Qc
03-04-2018, 09:41 PM
Hey guys, I was one of the Maverick players making day 2 at Worcester. You might have seen me getting a game loss handed to me by the judges on the stream in a match I would have won. I was undefeated after day 1 and the other GWb Maverick player started off 8-0. As mentioned, there was tons of Grixis everywhere at the top table. Sunday wasn't as kind to me, unfortunately. Will write up a semi-detailed tournament report this week when time allows.

All I can say is many people in the chat were rooting for you after the game loss. Players like that are why I avoid competitive events. Glad you got to beat him after that and teach this punk a lesson, even if we didn't get to see it on cam!

Dreadnaught33
03-04-2018, 11:42 PM
Hey guys, I was one of the Maverick players making day 2 at Worcester. You might have seen me getting a game loss handed to me by the judges on the stream in a match I would have won. I was undefeated after day 1 and the other GWb Maverick player started off 8-0. As mentioned, there was tons of Grixis everywhere at the top table. Sunday wasn't as kind to me, unfortunately. Will write up a semi-detailed tournament report this week when time allows.

Yeah man, if you are in the maverick discord you'll see around the time they were streaming you we all went nuts about how much BS that was. Sorry you had to deal with that. Can't wait for your report man!!!!

Silent Requiem
03-05-2018, 01:58 AM
I'm looking forward to the report as well; I've been looking for a solid Dark Maverick list as a starting point for the deck.

Rascalyote
03-05-2018, 04:23 AM
Congrats on making day 2, that's awesome! Wish I traveled more for events, but I will be at GP Seattle.

I played in a 6 round local over the weekend, decided to play Marit Lage this time as I'm usually 50/50 on her.

This won't be a super detailed tournament report as I don't take notes, I have a poor memory, and I was/am very tired. I'll try to have a better tournament report for the Grand Prix though.

Lands: 24
1 x Dark Depths
1 x Thespian’s Stage
4 x Wasteland
1 x Dryad Arbor
1 x Horizon Canopy
1 x Karakas
1 x Plains
2 x Forest
1 x Scrubland
1 x Bayou
2 x Savannah
1 x Marsh Flats
3 x Verdant Catacombs
4 x Windswept Heath

Creatures: 21
1 x Noble Hierarch
4 x Deathrite Shaman
1 x Scryb Ranger
1 x Scavenging Ooze
1 x Qasali Pridemage
1 x Gaddock Teeg
4 x Knight of the Reliquary
3 x Mother of Runes
3 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 x Stoneforge Mystic

Spells: 15
4 x Swords to Plowshares
2 x Abrupt Decay
3 x Thoughtseize
4 x Green Sun’s Zenith
1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
1 x Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard:
2 x Choke
1 x Tireless Tracker
1 x Gaddock Teeg
2 x Ethersworn Canonist
1 x Containment Priest
1 x Blessed Alliance
1 x Toxic Deluge
1 x Golgari Charm
2 x Zealous Persecution
3 x Surgical Extraction


Rd 1- Pile

Game 1 my opponent pushes my guy turn 1, hymns me turn 2, snap push turn 3, and I think a Jace if not turn 4 then shortly after.

Game 2 we grind eachother out and he's at 6 with a leovold in play to my tireless tracker with 1 counter, and 1 clue while I'm hellbent. I draw literally the best card for this situation - Karakas. Play it, get a clue, crack both drawing 0 cards, pick up Leovold, 6 you.

Game 3 I choke him early but he still gets off 2or3 K-Commands and we have nothing for a bit, we go to time as he has a Leovold and I have a Thalia plus a Jitte.

Draw 0-1-0 (I don't put the result before because that's spoilers :^))

Rd 2 - Infect

Both games my deck decides it wants to be Death and taxes and I have like turn 1 Karakas -> mom, some thalia's, canonists in game 2, etc. Not really any black cards or anything and I die to the classic 'tap my blighted agent some times' both games.

0-1-1

Pretty lousy start, have to win out to make top 8.

Rd 3 Nic Fit

Game 1 I play a mana dork turn and be blind Therapies Knight of the Reliquary, the fb therapy also ends up getting my Green Sun's Zeniths. However I have DRS with a jitte and it kinda just starts rolling him until he dies.

Game 2 is a grind and I end up natural thawing out Dark Depths but it's 1 turn too slow as I die to scapeshift before I can attack

Game 3 I have knight, scryb ranger and some other creatures and he deeds me for 3 and I fetch up stage and depths in response and Marit Lage does her best Barren Glory impression as deed washes over her.

1-1-1

Rd 4 Death and Taxes

Game 1 I thoughtseize him and take a stoneforge mystic, few turns later he has a bunch of mirran crusaders and thalia. I cross my fingers and make Marit Lage and she robs my opponent of the game.

Game 2 my opponent has mom, mom, mirran crusader to my mom, stoneforge but my hand is decay, golgari charm, zealous, jitte and my opponent concedes shortly after I Zealous Persecution him.

2-1-1


Rd 5 Mardu Deadguy/Midrange? w/e

Game 1 I get caught holding a fetch in the middle of the game as he bloodmoons me and I only have my plains and not my forest, I'm pretty sure I would've lost anyways though as he proceeds to play both Liliana's.

Game 2 I honestly can't remember what happened, but Marit Lage killed him.

Game 3 I have a Green Sun's Zenith, double stoneforge and some lands on the draw, I decide to keep because some of the lands do stuff like wasteland and stage. He thoughtseizes me turn 1 and takes the Zenith, I take my turn and draw dryad arbor. He hymns me turn 2 and I pray for him to not take both Mystics, flip first card -> Mystic, 2nd card ... Dryad Arbor phew, drawing you wasn't so bad I guess. Some odd turns later I end up thoughtseizing him and seeing a clunker hand like double Stoneforge himself, Vindicate, and some other clunk I can't remember (I didn't write it down because we're buds and we usually just left the known cards face up because we don't play brainstorm). I take the vindicate and end up playing knight -> Marit Lage and he doesn't get the plow.

3-1-1

Feeling really good as Marit Lage pretty much handed me my last 3 matches after starting off 0-1-1

Rd 6 Lands

Game 1 he's on the play and plays the R/G cycle land tapped. I thoughtseize him and see 4 lands, crop rotation and a molten vortex that I take, which elects a "Really, maindeck thoughtseize from Maverick". He dies not doing much this game.

Game 2 we both play patiently and just draw -> go for a bunch of turns while he has wasteland, access to Marit Lage and some other lands. I have an active knight, double wasteland and a Karakas so he can't really do anything. He plays a Sylvan Safekeeper and I think for a bit then I Golgari Charm to kill it (I brought it in because there's really not a lot to bring in this matchup and it's versatile enough). I set up more stuff like getting a SOFI equipped. At one point he stages something and I blow one wasteland and he crops it for another stage which I waste again while he's tapped out, then I end up surgical'ing his stages later. He eventually succumbs to sworded creature and knight.

4-1-1, 4th place in swiss

Quarters - Elves

I'm scared as this matchup is really hard, if I can win game 1 I'd feel really good but that's a tall order. I have turn 2 natural Gaddock Teeg followed by jitte shortly after and some plows along the way, better lucky than good as I win game 1.

Game 2 ends in a clowny way as I had ooze with a bunch of counters, Teeg, canonist, deathrite and a bunch of lands and he has like 8 dudes including quiron ranger, wirewood symbiote, deathrites etc. But his shamans cant do anything and he cant attack that well because of my ooze. I literally didn't cast another spell whole game after that I just draw -> go and he just has to watch me thaw out this Dark Depths over 5 turns and he dies as he doesn't draw the natural hoof.

Thawing out Marit Lage against elves certainly makes the list for most messed up things I've had happen in a game of magic.

Semi's - Miracles

Game one took like an hour, as apparently I was playing a control deck. I had no creatures for the first several turns and my turn 1 Thoughtseize got forced. He play a search for Azcanta which I decayed. We did some land -> go for a bit which kinda sucks as that really favours him, but I thaw a couple counters off my Dark Depths in the mean time and we both joke how I'm gonna thaw her out again. Turns pass and I get a couple creatures which both get plowed eventually after doing some damage then I drop an ooze and have enough mana to eat both those plows right away as he terminus' my ooze away. I then actually thaw out my Marit Lage and he doesn't have a plow as I exiled them from snapcasters grubby little hands, he ponders into Entreat the angels making 5. I'm holding double plow and decay and he's low enough to where the 8 life won't put him out of lage so if I can speed bump through 2 angels I win. He gets ponder into jace on the last turn and I lose, forcing my sword of fire and ice the turn before as well because I wanted to give Lage pro blue. This game was really long and grindy though and a lot else happened in the middle, he ended up hard casting 3 forces this game.

Game 2 I get jace'd out.

Was a good day, Marit Lage really proved itself to me. I've been playing it on/off pretty much since Stage + Depths has been a thing but I'm just going to have it be a permanent addition now. Before this tournament I only thaw'd out Marit Lage once in all that time, including casual games. To think I did it 3 times... what a crazy tournament.

Can't tell you how good Priest or Blessed Alliance were as I never played them.

Seraphix
03-05-2018, 07:16 AM
Good news from SCG:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/4275_day_2_metagame_breakdown.html

Punishing and two Dark Maverick made day2 not sure what is punishing abzan that would've more than 5% total of day2. Question how many was in day1.

Meta is still dominating by grixis Delver and new miracles which gives more than 25% of meta.. and looks like 50% of top8. Looks like WotC will do some banning soon.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=3&start_date=03/03/2018&end_date=03/04/2018&start=1&finish=32&event_ID=20&city=Worcester&state=MA&order_1=finish&order_2=last_name&limit=50

So timmyod17 and TheDiscoPower day 2'd with GWB and I day 2'd with Punishing (44th place finish).

Unfortunately all three of us played against each other of the course of the tournament :(

Seraphix
03-05-2018, 11:28 AM
Sorry for the double post - here's what I played at SCG Worcester:

Creatures (22)
4x Mother of Runes
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Voice of Resurgence
4x Knight of the Reliquary

Noncreature Spells (15)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Punishing Fire
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull

Lands (23)
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Savannah
2x Taiga
1x Plateau
1x Forest
1x Plains
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
3x Wasteland
1x Karakas
1x Horizon Canopy

SB: 2x Surgical Extraction
SB: 2x Crop Rotation
SB: 2x Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2x Choke
SB: 1x Bojuka Bog
SB: 1x Kitchen Finks
SB: 1x Reclamation Sage
SB: 1x Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1x Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1x Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 1x Blessed Alliance


I committed the heresy of cutting Scryb Ranger from my 75 in order to move Voice of Resurgence to the main and free up a sideboard slot for another anti-nonsense card, which became the Phyrexian Revoker. I know I can be quoted in various places saying I'd never play Maverick without Scryb Ranger. Feel free to roast me, ban be from the thread, etc. The other change I made was fitting Blessed Alliance into the sideboard. TNN is very popular right now and this card also looks reasonable against random aggro and fatty decks. Didn't cast it all weekend (in fact, it ate two Thoughtseizes) so can't say how good it is. Thunderknight ran it in the Classic with my inspiration and it was good for him.

Day 1
Round 1: Dredge (2-1)
Round 2: Miracles (2-1)
Round 3: Elves (2-1)
Round 4: GWb Maverick, TheDiscoPower (0-2)
Round 5: Eldrazi (2-0)
Round 6: Esperblade (2-0)
Round 7: Bant Deathblade (1-1)
Round 8: Czech Pile (1-1)
Round 9: Esper Miracles (2-1)

Day 2
Round 10: Burn (1-2)
Round 11: Lands (2-1)
Round 12: Food Chain (2-0)
Round 13: BUG Control (1-2)
Round 14: GWb Maverick, timmyod17 (2-0)
Round 15: Aggro Loam (1-2)

Final Record: 9-4-2, 44th place


I played against a mix of good matchups (Lands, Dredge, Eldrazi, Blade) and bad matchups (Elves, Burn, Miracles, Food Chain). Every sideboard card was brought in at least once over the over the weekend.

Honestly, this 75 is heinously underpowered with no Deathrite Shaman, Thalia, Scryb Ranger, or Dark Depths, and only 3 Wastelands. If you want to play a good Maverick deck, play GWb with Leovold.

aiee6
03-05-2018, 04:59 PM
Honestly, this 75 is heinously underpowered with no Deathrite Shaman, Thalia, Scryb Ranger, or Dark Depths, and only 3 Wastelands. If you want to play a good Maverick deck, play GWb with Leovold.

Why not play these cards? I've personally found room for DRS, Thalia, 4 Waste, and Scryb in my punishing list and the deck has been performing great. (No dark depths however)

Milo687
03-06-2018, 05:16 AM
Hey everyone.

I have been itching to play a Maverick for a long time and I am planning on pulling the trigger and picking up a list.

This is what I am thinking of playing:

Creatures (23)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Ramunap Excavator

Spells (11)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire

Artifacts (2)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Enchantments (1)
1 Sylvan Library

Lands (23)
1 Bayou
1 Dark Depths
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills


Sideboard (15)
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Crop Rotation
2 Pyroblast
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Choke
1 Fiery Justice
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Surgical Extraction

Now to preface a bit I did throw this together without any experience playing the deck. I used a few Top 8 decks as well as some suggestions I have seen on here.

My question to the veterans of the deck is, are there any blaring problems that you see before I pull the trigger on ordering this list.

timmyod17
03-06-2018, 10:32 AM
This is my list for SCG Worcester:

Creatures (24)
4 DRS
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Mother of Runes

4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze

4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

Other Spells (13)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library

Lands (23)
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy

Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Choke
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

Matches (with notes for selected matches)
Rd 1 vs Death and Taxes, Win 2-0 (1-0)
Rd 2 vs Merfolk, Win 2-0 (2-0)
Rd 3 vs BUG Delver, Win 2-1 (3-0)
Rd 4 vs Storm, Win 2-0 (4-0)
Rd 5 vs Sneak and Show, Win 2-0 (5-0)
Rd 6 vs Grixis Delver, Draw 1-1 (5-0-1)
Played against Jonathan Rosum. Won a grindy g1 before being put on camera as the backup match for g2. He had early aggression and I was on the ropes before some timely removal and an active Jitte got me to stabilize at one life. Was about to leave him with just one permanent and close the door when I drew Garruk Relentless for my turn. The judge stopped the match, however, and said my sleeves were not sufficiently opaque for using a double sided card and gave me a game loss just as time had apparently expired. Tough way to have a win slip away like that, especially as I had been running that card in those sleeves for years without issue.
Rd 7 vs Miracles, Win 2-0 (6-0-1)
Rd 8 vs Grixis Delver, Win 2-0 (7-0-1)
Rd 9 vs Maverick, Win 2-1 (8-0-1)
======================
Rd 10 vs Elves, Loss 1-2 (8-1-1)
Going into day 2, I knew I would be facing Elves since the 9-0 player was on it. Stole g1 on the draw by curving Mom into Teeg into Leovold into Jitte cast+equip. Games 2/3 I got bitten by the mulligan bug pretty badly (would be a theme on Sunday) and didn't have much action.
Rd 11 vs Miracles, Loss 0-2 (8-2-1)
G1 he just blindly hit a turn 5 Entreat and sometimes two flying 4/4's are enough. G2 I mulled to 5, kept 3 fetches plus Leo and Garruk and scried Thalia to the top. Not a bad 2-3-4 drop curve I thought. Unfortunately he was able to brainstorm a Terminus to the top in response to my Leovold and that was pretty much that.
Rd 12 vs Grixis Delver, Loss 1-2 (8-3-1)
Played against a guy from my LGS on a nontraditional build. He drew all 4 Bolts in both games he won and that really made all the difference.
Rd 13 vs Aggro Loam, Draw 1-1-1 (8-3-2)
Opponent played agonizingly slowly in an already grindy matchup. He refused to concede even after I had surgical'd his Punishing Fires and pretty much had him beaten after turns.
Rd 14 vs Punishing Maverick, Loss 0-2 (8-4-2)
Rd 15 vs 4c Pile, Win 2-1 (9-4-2)
Excavator + Wasteland is just so good in this matchup, especially if you can kill their DRS. Decided to be a good sport and ID afterwards though, as we were both locked for top 64 if we did.

Thoughts on specific cards:
- Leovold was a last-minute inclusion that I purchased on a whim after walking into the venue. Had never played it before, but it definitely pulled its weight. I was able to hardcast it just off lands, GSZ for it, and use mana dorks to cast it over the course of the event. He has game against almost every matchup, both fair and unfair. After just one event, I think it's correct to play one in the maindeck. It felt almost unfair when I got him on the battlefield and could protect it with a Mother or Karakas.
- Excavator was an all star all weekend. Lost count, but I think I won at least 5 games by Wasteland locking opponents out of the game with this guy. And when I couldn't do that I still got so much value out of it.
- Scryb Ranger always outperforms and I never understand how anyone can ever cut this card. Being able to fizzle an opponent's Wasteland, ambush a Delver, Clique, Snapcaster, or Strix, and get double DRS activations while carrying a Jitte with flying and vigilance is insane for just a single card.
- Garruk Relentless definitely underperformed. CMC = 4 is too expensive generally to bring in vs Delver, it just dies to bolt against Pile, and even against Miracles it's been just underwhelming.
- Sword of Light/Shadow Have been running this for the mirror, as well as D&T, Miracles, and Pile. It seems great on paper, but even if you finally connect there's just often too little value in the trigger as your GY is empty of creatures because they've all been Terminus'd or StP'd or eaten with DRS. Or it just gets stranded in your hand or blown up by K-Command.
- Choke was a mixed bag. It felt good crushing a tapped out Miracles player with it, but most other times felt lackluster. CMC = 3 is tough to afford vs Delver, Pile has a surprising number of non-Islands, and it hits our own Tropical Island if you're running the Leo version. Probably still good enough, though.

Future thoughts - I like the maindeck pretty much exactly how it is. I think I want to go in a different direction for sideboard cards for the "fair" matchups. Considering trying out different planeswalkers in Garruk's spot. I dislike the double white cost of some (Gideon, Elspeth, and original Nahiri). Wondering if Kaya might be an option as a source of card advantage or the last few points of reach. Or Domri Rade for the punishing version. Or the newest Nissa (with the XUG casting cost) if playing the blue splash. Also considering Thrun as a non-counterable, hexproof, resilient threat. Maybe a second copy of Library, as it's insanely powerful against Pile and Miracles and I always want to draw it.

JackaBo
03-06-2018, 01:12 PM
TimmyOD: would you consider running more than one Leo if the cuts were easy? In a way i feel like this shell might be better than 4CC for Leo as you can protect it with MoR. For a blue deck to find double bolt without their cantrips seems very strong.

Borg
03-06-2018, 01:33 PM
As much as I like Maverick, more often than not it falls just short in the end.
IMHO it needs more aggro, mana and card draw.

It may sound like blasphemy to some but IMO this deck is better off with Noble Hierarch than DRS.
Noble Hierarch helps in the aggro and mana department ( reliably ). They can turn Thalia and the Pridemage into real beatsticks.

Tireless Tracker has fantastic synergy with Knight of the Reliquary and can provide massive card draw, provided you have the mana for it. I think the deck needs at least a second copy, arguably even a third one, so that you don't have to rely on GSZ to get your only copy most of the time.
Exalted + +1/+1 counters + card draw = beats + card advantage.

Another card which is too good to leave out imo is Grasping Dunes.
This card allows Knight of the Reliquary to finish Delvers, Grim Lavamancers, Dark Confidants, Baleful Strixes, Mother of Runes... etc at instant speed and uncounterable.
This means at least one copy of Ramunap Excavator is preferred as well.

Fourth Mother of Runes was replaced with one copy of Sylvan Safekeeper ( no summoning sickness to protect and tutorable )

I prefer one extra Sword of Fire and Ice over two SFM.

With 18 creatures being of the "Human" type, including your most important ones, one Cavern of Souls deserves a spot too, I think.
It can be tutored for and it's essentially a Savannah when playing human creatures with it.

The Result :

Lands (23)

2 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
2 Grasping Dunes
1 Karakas
1 Plains
4 Savannah
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Spells (12)

4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Mirri's Guile
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Creatures (25)

1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ramunap Excavator
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Tireless Tracker

Sideboard (15)

2 Abrupt Decay
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dark Depths
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Grasping Dunes
1 Maze of Ith
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Tireless Tracker

Fatal
03-06-2018, 02:04 PM
Another card which is too good to leave out imo is Grasping Dunes.
This card allows Knight of the Reliquary to finish Delvers, Grim Lavamancers, Dark Confidants, Baleful Strixes etc at instant speed and uncounterable

Grasping Dunes has :
Tap: Add Colorless to your mana pool.
1, Tap, Sacrifice Grasping Dunes: Put a -1/-1 counter on target creature. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery

It kills only X/1 more over it require to use land drop and one mana, it's just worst abrupt Decay, difference is that it can be found by KotR, but if you untap with KotR you already won.. so it's just win more.

Noble hierarch vs Shaman vs Birds of Paradise are in primer.

Tracker require Hugh Mana to been effective, it's very slow and Grindy, you need 7 Mana (3 cast 4 for clues)and two landfalls to survive bolt, it's good card but not in multiple (no room, it's for game-end).

Sfm gives CA and speed up SoFI and dodge permission no point of running two SoFI.

If you really want a beatsticks put Nacatls, bolts and play like big Zoo, but it's wrong direction.

Borg
03-06-2018, 03:49 PM
Thanks for the reply, Fatal.


Grasping Dunes has :
Tap: Add Colorless to your mana pool.
1, Tap, Sacrifice Grasping Dunes: Put a -1/-1 counter on target creature. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery

It kills only X/1 more over it require to use land drop and one mana, it's just worst abrupt Decay, difference is that it can be found by KotR, but if you untap with KotR you already won.. so it's just win more.

OK, it kills only x/1 creatures right away but there are so many 1-toughness top creatures in Legacy that this card is rarely useless.
It doesn't necessarily require a land drop though ( unless you meant "sacrificing" a land ? )
Besides the advantage that it can be tutored up when needed ( contrary to Abrupt Decay ), it is also part of your 23 lands, which means you save two spots which otherwise would be taken up by Abrupt Decay.
Another advantage is that it can be reused with Ramunap Excavator in play while Decay is gone after one use.

Another detail which may be important to keep in mind is that this land does not deal damage but rather puts a -1/-1 counter on a creature, which sticks around.
This can make a difference after all like vs First Striker Thalia or in being un/able to take out KotR.



Tracker require Hugh Mana to been effective, it's very slow and Grindy, you need 7 Mana (3 cast 4 for clues)and two landfalls to survive bolt, it's good card but not in multiple (no room, it's for game-end).

That's why I prefer Noble Hierarch ( more mana ) instead of DRS.
I don't necessarily mind a Tracker taking a Bolt if that can keep my follow-up Knight alive.
More threats = more chances that one can stay on the battlefield.
I see no problem playing a Tracker on T2 after a T1 Hierarch. That's a 4/3 attacker on T3 ( possibly a 5/4 with a card draw and +1/+1 counter )



Sfm gives CA and speed up SoFI and dodge permission no point of running two SoFI.
Good points.
But what if you draw your artifacts first and your SFM later ?
Then there's no card advantage and maybe no permission dodge either.
2 SFM and 2 Equipment assumes you're going to draw the SFM first, but that's not necessarily the case.
At this point, I just prefer drawing an equipment instead of a SFM.

I may still review my opinions based on future results though ;)