[Deck Discussion] ZaT!

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

A couple weeks prior to Grand Prix Philly, Godzilla and I spent a great deal of time playtesting and perfecting a new deck. It's origins began when Zilla seemed intent on creating some variant of Dredge-a-Tog in Legacy. Mention was made of the Orlove ZiReanimator deck. Then I made the prophetic statement; "Why not take the half of both decks that doesn't suck, and put them together?"

After some months of testing, the deck neared perfection.

Then Godzilla and I both forgot about it for a few months.

Then I IM'd him and asked, "Why don't we ever work on that ZaT! deck anymore?"

He didn't answer for four hours, then said, "I dunno. Busy. WoW raid."

Then I called his mother a prostitute.


Now, a month after that exchange, I remember to actually post a deckthread. Behold!


The mana base:

4x Cephalid Coliseum
4x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
4x Underground Sea
2x Island
1x Swamp

The kill:

4x Psychatog
4x Zombie Infestation

The draw engine:
3x Brainstorm
4x Careful Study
3x Ideas Unbound
(also see: 4x Cephalid Coliseum, previous)

The yard abuse:
4x Squee, Goblin Nabob
4x Krovikian Horror
4x Stinkweed Imp
1x Wonder

The control:
4x Force of Will
3x Circular Logic
3x Ghastly Demise
2x Sickening Dreams


Sideboard:
3x Stench of Evil
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Crippling Fatigue
3x Pithing Needle
1x Wonder

The goal is to keep the opponent off-balance long enough to kill them with a ramped up Tog or a Zombie mob, with Sickening Dreams adding burn reach to the deck. It suffers a bit of splash hate from Threshold, and follows a similar strategy, but is capable of faster wins and less hampered by control. Once the draw-engine gets going, you can also garner massive card advantage by drawing off of Coliseums/Ideas/Careful Study and discarding Squees/Horrors. Note that Dredge puts five cards from your library into your graveyard in any order, making Krovikian Horror much stronger.

The deck has a fairly positive matchup against Goblins, although much of the time it leans very heavily on Zombie Infestation; sideboarded Pithing Needles could be problematic against you. Combo is also favorable, although less so than Threshold. The deck has not been tested extensively against Threshold. The Cabal Therapies were previously maindecked before being cut for Ghastly Demise, as the deck needed some actual board control.

It's 4 Careful Study and only 3 Brainstorm, btw, because Careful Study is better in this deck.

[Tacosnape]

How is Tolarian Winds in here over, say, Ideas Unbound? I would think with Squee and mass dredgery it might be hot sex, but then as much as I love these sorts of decks I tend to be awful with them.

I'd love to work with testing this, though. I need a good deck that abuses the graveyard. Like, in the same way drunk guys abuse their mistresses.

[Iranon]

Now that's a deck that takes gravedigging seriously! However, I can't help wondering if you are overdoing it.
I assume the deck will curl up and die if it can't get cards into its graveyard.

A little bit of statistics:

If an opponent runs 4 Leylines of the Void in their board, they are...

40% likely to start with one in play if they don't mulligan
61% likely if they're prepared to mulligan once with the express purpose of getting one
72% likely if they are prepared to mulligan twice just for that.

You can't counter it, and with your current setup you can't get rid of it either. I assume the game will still be close to unwinnable even given a -2 cards for your opponent initially, do you think this is a problem?
I suppose other graveyard hate will be a lot more manageable since you mostly use the yard to pay for costs.

Please don't take this as an immediate dismissal, I'm just wondering just how vulnerable you feel the deck is, and whether it's worth the risk.

*Edited because I can't type*

[Finn]

Damnit, IBA. I want to disagree with you, just because it is you, but this looks really good.

making points:

1. Too few lands. More lands will let you miss fewer land drops, play more draw, accumulate more recurring creatures, and net greater card advantage in the long run.

2. Ghastly Demise is suspect. It doesn't hit Lackey or Wretch, both of which should be high on your list of concerns. I like Contagion in this spot. Extra ZI's are crap anyway. Or even that new one from Coldsnap.

3. Ideas Unbound should be 3 lands, IMO.

[Bane of the Living]

Ideas Unbound is really good, Im glad your giving it a go. I think more maindeck wonder would be good. You should out aggro your opponent at this point, just play a few counters to stop needle and such. I would ditch Demise for acceleration. Then again Friggorid seems like its already doing what your trying to here.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Some thoughts; unlike Friggorid, the deck actually wants some cards of it's own choice in it's hand. The goal is to trade off Squees and Horrors for more of those cards.

If I saw someone play Leyline of the Void, ever, I'd be worried. But it's also pretty bad if it's not in their opening hand, and it's not like the cards totally cease functioning. If Leyline became really big I'd run Echoing Truth or something.

Land drops aren't that important to the deck. You only need enough for either Tog or Zi, and everything else you do is practically free. Also, Fetchland + Ghastly Demise kills first turn Lackey quite efficently.

I'd rather cut Brainstorm than Ideas Unbound, honestly. The latter is really powerful with the deck's strategies.

The primary advantage of the deck over Friggorid is the ability to control the flow of the game and continually produce long-term card advantage.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Brainstorm? Ungh. More Portent.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Would FOW/Logic be better as Duress/Therapy?

[Zilla]

My build runs Therapy over Logic. I prefer it, personally, because it operates in much the same way here as it does in Friggorid. I found Logic to be too dependent on a resolved Tog or ZI, particularly against early game threats. Therapy is nice also because it protects your ZI and Tog preemptively, and they are, after all, your primary win conditions.

As for the manabase, it does look light, but in practice it actually works out pretty well. By and large, you can cast every important threat in your deck for 2 mana, and it's okay for Tog to hit the board later in the game at 3cc.

IBA briefly alluded to the fact that we both lost interest in the deck for awhile. I'm not sure what his reasons were, but mine were more than just a renewed interest in WoW:

1. The deck has a similar weakness to grave hate that Friggorid does, and the format is currently rife with it.

2. Also like Friggorid, the deck is highly aggressive, but it's not particularly good at controlling the board. FoW, Therapy/Logic, and Sickening Dreams only go so far. I was personally having trouble with Goblins due to lack of board control. Engineered Plague in the board will obviously mitigate this problem some, but even then, the deck can just go nuts on you before you get your defenses online.

3. The format is extremely prepared for aggro decks right now, even lightning fast ones like this. As far as suggessful aggro strategies are concerned, I'm not sure that small and fast is better than slower and bigger right now.


It should be noted that IBA and I came up with this concept before Friggorid was created and popularized in Extended. I mention this not out of arrogance but because with the introduction of Friggorid, I'm not totally sure which deck is better or why. ZaT! has a cooler name, and it's got a bit more control, but it's a bit slower than Friggorid, and in the end, they're both equally poor at controlling the board state.

One thing I strongly recommend that's not present in IBA's list above is 3-4 Echoing Truth in the board. You really really want answers to resolved Crypts and Needles. In conjunction with Therapy, this can actually turn into a permanent answer to these problems, in that you can bounce them and Therapy them away. Even without Therapy in the mix, you can often set up a lethal Tog and just opposing threats when you're ready to alpha strike.

In any case, my list is slightly different from IBA's, but not enormously so. I'll see if I can dig it up for comparison.

[SillyMetalGAT]

If I saw someone play Leyline of the Void, ever, I'd be worried.

Sorry if this is Necroing or something, but I just wanted to point this out.

[quicksilver]

Sorry if this is Necroing or something, but I just wanted to point this out.

Umm, also, last week I saw him boarding in leyline in truffle shuffle in the Frog's unsanctioned tournement. And I beleive he is trying to aquire a playset of these.

[Ewokslayer]

Umm, also, last week I saw him boarding in leyline in truffle shuffle in the Frog's unsanctioned tournement. And I beleive he is trying to aquire a playset of these.

Against what?

[quicksilver]

Against what?

I can't remeber, I think it might have been friggorid.