[Deck] Sensei Sensei

[CavernNinja]

Ok, I'm trying it again because I want this deck to be good. I played a bit on MWS but really don't have testing results at all. Any help would be appreciated.


//Mana
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
6 Snow-Covered Island
5 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Temple of the False God

//Creatures
4 Eternal Dragon

//Combo
3 Helm of Awakening
2 Future Sight

//Draw/Selection
4 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish

//Counter Magic
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
3 Mana Leak
3 Pithing Needle

//That Wrath Thing +
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Wrath of God

//Sideboard (very sketchy so far)
1 BEB
3 Codemn
1 Hindering Touch (Yeah that's some shitty Solidarity tech right there)
4 Silver Knight (gobbos)
1 Brain Freeze
2 Disenchant
2 Dismantling Blow
1 Fact or Fiction

So I want it to either go faster or give me more control. I don't need or want a huge swing in either direction but I'd like to see something more powerful out of the deck.

[quicksilver]

Why arn't you running enlightened tutor? It can find any one of your combo pieces, top, future sight, or helm.

[Aggro_zombies]

Um...shouldn't this be posted in the Counterbalance thread? Your deck looks similar to what they're running, but you're less focused on Counterbalance. Also, it seems like Future Sight doesn't play too well with Counterbalance...they know what cc you can counter, so, sans Top to make things interesting, they can just avoid casting that cc of spell. Also, why Helm? Free Tops with Future Sight? At that point, why not drop the fifth Brainstorm from the SB for a Brain Freeze as an alternate win condition, since you can make an arbitrarily large storm count.

If you want to go more of a controlling route, I suggest you start here:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3845

[CavernNinja]

Lolz. Ok so the 5th Brainstorm is definately a Brain Freeze in the board.

Ok, so for those that are apparently left out of the loop.

Sensei's Top + Helm + Future Sight = Drawing your deck.

[Maveric78f]

The problems of your list :
- you don't choose between control and combo. Result : you don't have enough combo to be faster than aggro and you don't have enough control to slow down significantly aggro. I could make the same remarks on the other matchups.
- anti-synergy between some cards as aggro_zombie noticed but also helm which is a very combo card because it's helping som much all the decks...
- not enough instant-fast shufflers : only 4*fetches + 4*eternal dragon
- no tutor for the combo or for the lock...
- I've always liked Words of wisdom with top. That may be your final control.

Run enlightened*4, don't play cunning wish. Your toolbox will be enchantments (like moat...). Don't play helm. Play 2 more fetches. Don't play needle more than once in your deck. And so on...

[Mirrislegend]

I used to play a version of this. But I never even considered Future Sight. The casting cost is just too prohibitive. Its much easier to go Helm-Top-Top-Infinte Storm count-Brainfreeze ftw

[Alfred]

Ok, I'm trying it again because I want this deck to be good. I played a bit on MWS but really don't have testing results at all. Any help would be appreciated.



So I want it to either go faster or give me more control. I don't need or want a huge swing in either direction but I'd like to see something more powerful out of the deck.

If you are already running Snow-Covered lands, why not run Scrying Sheets in the deck? It has a lot of synergy with Divining Top and Brainstorm, and can give you some card advantage in a deck that wants a lot of it. Or you could drop white completely, throw in some Vedalken Shackles and maybe Energy Field, which would be particularly savage as long as you are running mostly basic SC islands.

Also, without Lotus Petals, have you found that it is harder to combo off after assembling the combo?

[wmagzoo7]

Alright I am currently testing out this deck on MWS but I am running a much faster less controlish mono colored version. I have found that the deck is able to be just as fast as most aggro decks and consistently goldfishes turn 4 which is decent for a legacy deck. My list that I am currently using is somewhat fragile but can win on turn 2 with a god draw and gets turn 3 wins about 15 % of the time.
// Lands
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MM] Saprazzan Skerry
2 [EX] City of Traitors
5 [5E] Island (3)

// Spells
4 [VI] Helm of Awakening
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [ON] Future Sight
1 [SC] Brain Freeze
4 [MR] Fabricate
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [SC] Long-Term Plans
4 [US] Show and Tell
2 [VI] Impulse
1 [TE] Lotus Petal
If anyone has any suggestions for my deck to make it either faster or more resilient would be appreciated because it currently loses to hand disruption and counter control.

[NANTUKO_SHADY]

If anyone has any suggestions for my deck to make it either faster or more resilient would be appreciated because it currently loses to hand disruption and counter control.

So for the most part, It loses to Solidarity, Threshold, and any control based deck?? Sounds like this deck might not be the best choice. I agree this deck is fun to play, but it crumbles to any sort of hand destruction. This is why choosing Iggy-Pop or Solidarity would be the wiser move in terms of combo.

[wmagzoo7]

@Nantuko Shady I said that it currently loses to hand disruption and counter control not that it will always do so. For these reasons I am asking for help because I already know that this is not the best deck and most likely will never be that but could become a contender if it were tweaked enough.

[jazzykat]

NOTE: My thoughts are on a combo version. There is no room for creature removal or any control cards.

Oh and before you just dismiss this idea as: wasteland will wreck you read the whole idea. There will be explorations and a ton of fetches.

I was thinking about academy rectors and future sight(like the difference between rector tendrils and the old tendrils lists).

So the core of the deck would be UB with a splash of white(to play rector, and to sb access to disenchant)

You would run an ass ton of black acceleartion (dark and cabal rituals). The black discard suite (cabal therapy and duress). With a future sight out running LED's doesn't look that bad, nor does lotus petal.

You can run intuition, tops, brainstorm, fetches, serum visions, explorations, high tides to continually power the top and up storm. Some black tutors, a culling of the weak or two to make sure that the rector really dies! Maybe an iggy or 2. Meditate also looks sexy here as that is the most effective draw per cost.

We can make this like an iggy pop but a little slower and much more consistent.

Burning wish might be cool too since the deck would be a bit slower than most combo decks. It would allow for you to fetch pyroclasm vs. a fast goblin start...or a tendrils.

The idea would be to obviously get a future sight on the table and depending on how much mana you have go off the next turn (not sure if I want to go tendrils or brain freeze but I am much preferring tendrils as it keeps you from being dead (assuming you can't win all in one turn and only requires 8 or 9 spells)).

I realize this is a 5 color(3 colors only splashed for 1 card. G=Exporation, W=Rector, R=Burning wish) suggestion, based on getting a 5cc enchantment into play and sticking for a turn but...I think that it could be so resilient to fizzling with all the fetches + exploration to get the land right off the top, scrying/card optimization effects, flexibility from a wish board and acceleration. Depending on how heavily we lean on future sight we may be able to go off without it as there would be a lot of 0cc and 1cc things in the deck.

Lastly, I think the real power of the deck would be that it could go off over 2 consecutive turns without any real draw back.

For instance, say you spent your hand but you have 4 mana out, an exploration and a future sight. Now if you draw a cantrip as the next card you are literally off to the races, and you can keep removing land from the top of the deck due to exploration.

Lastly, if running LED's I would like to run diminishing returns which would really get you ramped up!

I haven't thrown up a list but all counters short of force would not be in the deck and their would be not creature removal, counterbalances or anything else.

[Nightmare]

Threads Merged. ~ Nightmare

[rsaunder]

"Don't play helm."--Maveric78f

So what do you propose as his win condition again?

[jazzykat]

This is a manifestation of my idea.

Land
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
1 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand

Acceleration:
4 LED
4 Lotus Petal
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual

Combo
4 Academy Rector
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Future Sight



Search and setup:
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
3 Mystical Tutor
3 Sensei's divining top
4 Predict

Kill
2 Tendrils of Agony


I think most of the cards are self explanatory and nothing is set in stone. I am currently testing predicts which I think will make this deck run a lot smoother. My post above gives a vague idea of where I am going. Please feel free to rip this deck a new ass hole if you have an idea of what would go better.

Edit: I know it is 61 cards. Once you hit future sight this thing SCREAMS because it is only a matter of time before you have a top or just wisely use your shuffle effects. The predicts are there to knock off shitty cards that don't help you

[Hanni]

Jazzykat, do you purposely leave out Helm of Awakening? I thought that was a vital combo piece...

If I were you, I'd drop the Mystical Tutor for Englightened Tutor, drop the Serum Visions for Infernal Tutor, and drop the Predict for Intuition.

However, the deck needs Helm of Awakening and I also think that 1 Echoing Truth MD would be a good idea. I'm not sure what you'd prefer to cut for those slots but you definitely need Helm of Awakening in there somewhere.

[jazzykat]

Jazzykat, do you purposely leave out Helm of Awakening? I thought that was a vital combo piece...

If I were you, I'd drop the Mystical Tutor for Englightened Tutor, drop the Serum Visions for Infernal Tutor, and drop the Predict for Intuition.

However, the deck needs Helm of Awakening and I also think that 1 Echoing Truth MD would be a good idea. I'm not sure what you'd prefer to cut for those slots but you definitely need Helm of Awakening in there somewhere.

Well this deck relies a lot on the future sight. The deck is either acceleration or search. Tops are cool if they are out but are completely unecessary. This deck relies on future sight totally.

Predicts seem strange but they knock non-business cards off the top of your library and almost/should (not sure of the timing rules) always draw 2 with a future sight out.

I think that you have a lot of good ideas and I don't propose to know how the deck plays correctly (I am used to playing long and its variants) so why don't you give me the reasons for certain cards that you suggested.

[Alfred]

Well this deck relies a lot on the future sight. The deck is either acceleration or search. Tops are cool if they are out but are completely unecessary. This deck relies on future sight totally.

Predicts seem strange but they knock non-business cards off the top of your library and almost/should (not sure of the timing rules) always draw 2 with a future sight out.

I think that you have a lot of good ideas and I don't propose to know how the deck plays correctly (I am used to playing long and its variants) so why don't you give me the reasons for certain cards that you suggested.

I've tried this, and I found that it doesn't work all that well... I also totally cut blue for black, and just used cards like Night's Whisper and Skeletal Scrying, because blue spells with black acceleration don't really grok to well with one another.

[revenge_inc]

Tops are cool if they are out but are completely unecessary.


How is Sensei's Divining Top unecessary?
I don't mean to be rude but the deck is called Sensei-Sensei for a reason.

Sensei's Divining Top + Sensei's Diving Top + Helm of Awakening= Infinite spells

Infinite spells + Brainfreeze= Deck them

I believe that these two "equations" should be the core objective of the deck with all essential combo cards being 4 ofs:

x4 Brain Freeze
x4 Sensei's Divining Top
x4 Helm of Awakening

At 5 mana is Future Sight really necessary? If you have the mana to cast it they should be already be dead.

[jazzykat]

How is Sensei's Divining Top unecessary?
I don't mean to be rude but the deck is called Sensei-Sensei for a reason.

Sensei's Divining Top + Sensei's Diving Top + Helm of Awakening= Infinite spells

Infinite spells + Brainfreeze= Deck them

I believe that these two "equations" should be the core objective of the deck with all essential combo cards being 4 ofs:

x4 Brain Freeze
x4 Sensei's Divining Top
x4 Helm of Awakening

At 5 mana is Future Sight really necessary? If you have the mana to cast it they should be already be dead.

The core of my deck was more about abusing future sight than the tops and I do understand the helm/top combo.

I was taking a cue from rector tendrils from type 1 (a few years back) where rector found bargain. I figured if the deck was configured right, a futuresight would work alsmost the same(minus the life loss) especially when you are permitted 4 LED and get to play off the top, in that you can just play half your deck on a turn and kill them.

In that respect I shouldn't have put my posts in this thread and should have started something called rector futuresight tendrils.

So now that my posts are after consideration mostly irrelevant to sensei sensei (a mod may delete them if he/she feels that way as well) what does this deck do against a pithing needle or meddling mage on freeze? Go look for some bounce or mull into that force of will?

Anusien on TMD came up with another rough counterbalance build for sensei, if anyone is interested.

I for one am going to investigate a burning tendrils that supposedly kills on turn 2.

[revenge_inc]

Interesting reply jazzykat, sorry if I came off rude. Thank you for explaining your reasoning.


The best solution I can think of to the Meddling Mage & Pithing Needle problem is counters and bounce. It's true that these cards are a problem, but so is a well timed Stifle or Counterspell (countering a Top). Maybe the deck should be heavier on the counterspells(main or sideboard) to stop these threats.

[Finn]

Over at MTGSalvation, a fellow had an amazing combo that just makes you giggle. I am mentioning it here because it fits nicely into the Sensei Sensei shell. You could easily run both combos together.

Future Sight w/ Thought Lash.

On its own, Thoughtlash is nearly laughable, but with Future Sight, it is a 2-card combo.

Thought Lash
2UU
Enchantment
Cumulative upkeep-Remove the top card of your library from the game. If you don't pay the cumulative upkeep, remove your library from the game.
Remove the top card of your library from the game: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to you this turn.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=32411

Unfortunately, we were never quite able to work out the kinks.

[Mirrislegend]

This is the list I submitted to the Counterbalance thread that died a bit back, minus a few changes.

Sensei's UnBalanced Top:

Manipulation/Filtering/Tutoring:
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
3 Cunning Wish

Counterspells:
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
1 Dissipate
4 Counterbalance

Creature Control:
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Wrath of God
1 Vedalken Shackles

Combo-riffic Miscellaneous:
2 Helm of Awakening
1 Brain Freeze

Land:
3 Plains
8 Island
3 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra

Sideboard:
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Brain Freeze
1 Argivian Find
1 Echoing Truth
1 Stifle
3 Disenchant
3 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Hydroblast
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Notes:
-I know the large presence of UU in casting costs is a bit intimidating, but its easy to handle. The mana base is designed to facilitate it, fetching white in the late game/in emergencies, while maintaining the supply of blue mana, thus keeping your gameplan intact and smoothly running.
-I'm considering -1 Hydroblast, +1 Gilded Light or Abeyance in the SB. I cant figure out which, if either.

[wmagzoo7]

Mirrislegend I think that your list could work but I am not really sure how a straight control combo version would do versus aggro rather than a combo deck. I am mainly talking about how goblins from my testing wrecked a control version because without force in the opening hand you lose to vial/lackey first turn. Also the way to beat mage/needle would be to just run cunning wish instead of md brain freezes.

[Kagehisa]

Future Sight
Gitaxian Probe
Lotus Petal
Lion's Eye Diamond
Chrome Mox
Mox Diamond
Mox Opal
Transmute Artifact
Reshape
Lotus Bloom
Sensei's Divining Top
Enlightened Tutor
Drafna's Restoration


With an active Future Sight played early with lots of free mana artifacts, you have to chain spells for the top of your library.
I guess it is easier to chain spells when they are free and when you net mana.
I listed some free spells and others.

when you play Gitaxian Probe or another cantrip from your hand during the chain to draw land (when you've already dropped a land).
Transmute Artifact (and Reshape) can fetch at its best a Lotus Bloom (that cannot be played from the top of your library) and net one mana.
Enlightened Tutor finds you a Lion's Eye Diamond during the chain and makes you feel casting a Dark Ritual.
Drafna's Restoration put all the free artifacts (but Lotus Bloom) of your graveyard on the top of your library to replay them. Yes, a pseudo Yawgmoth's Will here.

[Finn]

Wow. Back from the dead.

I don't recall the fellow's name. But he and I came up with a list that was monoblue with Thought Lash alongside Future Sight making for a fine engine combo that killed with Brain Feeze. You won't get it to work the way you have it. You will hit lands with Future Sight.

There may be a new way to do it including Laboratory Maniac. All the spells are expensive though.

EDIT: looks like I mentioned it five years ago. :)

[Kagehisa]

Ah I see... :)

Hm... In fact, a Future Sight on top of the library can make fizzle :(
1 Future Sight and 4 Enlightened Tutor can be a solution
and for lands I can suggest 3 or 4 Personal Tutor and 1 Mana Severance
Personal Tutor could be play from the top of lybrary to fetch Transmute Artifact to fetch Lotus Bloom to net 0 mana but at least it would increase the number of shuffle effects that is good when a land/Future Sight breaks the chain.
There are Transmute Artifact, Reshape, Enlightened Tutor and Personal Tutor (and some fetchlands?) to shuffle the library when a land sticks on the top of the library. Uhhh it is a pain to write "on the top of the library" so many times... :(

[Kagehisa]

Double post.
Sorry.

[brattin]

I remember this. The other guy eventually decided that Uwr was worth it, for burning wish and replenish. Maybe there was some other sorcery that made it more worthwhile, but I don't remember it.

Future Sight and Top lets you pay 1 mana to draw the top card of your deck, so you don't need crap like mana severance and personal tutor.

I tested the mono blue version (with saprazzan skerry and ancient tomb, and remand and force of wills and brainstorms) and basically just found the deck slow and inconsistent. But maybe I just had bad luck.

I don't think gitaxian probe suddenly makes it playable.

Regarding Lab Maniac--I don't think he's good, and even if he is I don't think he's worth playing alongside Future Sight/Thought Lash/Drafna's Restoration.

[(nameless one)]

I used to run this deck with the CounterTop engine. It was good in protecting the combo. Though CounterTop isn't as good as it used to be, I still think that its a good strategy to protect the combo.

[Sloshthedark]

one of local guys plays Helm for long time and is quite successful with it

4 helm of awakening
4 sensei's divining top
4 brainstorm
4 intuition
4 force of will
4 accumulated knowledge
4 snap
4 cursecatcher
3 merchant scroll
3 trinket mage
3 grapeshot
1 brain freeze
4 island
4 volcanic island
3 polluted delta
2 flooded strand
2 scalding tarn
3 ancient tomb

side
1 tormod's crypt
2 relic of progenitus
4 lightning bolt
3 vendilion clique
3 counterbalance
1 engineered explosives
1 rushing river