[Deck] 43 Lands

[kravkenov]

Your list looks pretty standard and i want ot congrat you for pushing lands despite the result (which is just a circunstance).

Some ups and down of your list:

-Why did you choose U-sea? Maybe a second bayou or the 3rd trop are better options. Remember that you actualy run 4 mox, urborg and 1 bayou for getting 1 black mana.

GC.

I run Usea because in my "original" list, there where 2 Entomb and a Raven's Crime.
I find I lack black mana and then I cut one Tropical Island for Usea, and push the count of Misty Rainforest to 2.
I didn't make mana change because I just take with me Entomb and Crop Rotation, and then choose Crop Rotation.

[GoldenCid]

I run Usea because in my "original" list, there where 2 Entomb and a Raven's Crime.
I find I lack black mana and then I cut one Tropical Island for Usea, and push the count of Misty Rainforest to 2.
I didn't make mana change because I just take with me Entomb and Crop Rotation, and then choose Crop Rotation.

ok---my comments were considering crop main

[Sparkii]

I think crop rotation is too good to not play in the main, regardless of intuition/combo build. It's just too strong, and the chance of you combo-ing off at instant speed puts many players on tilt and they play worse as a result.

Races combo too.

[kravkenov]

It was the first time I played with Crop Rotation main in a tournament (not THAT large, but ok, 6 swiss rounds).
I'm very happy with Crop Rotation and I will keep in the main for a good while.

I'm a bit disappointed with my result from my last tournament, but I only play-tested 3 days with my friends.
So, tricks and co from Tolarian, Academy ore Thicket are now know.
The hardest to learn is which opening 7 should be kept or mulliganed function of the matchup.
I should mulliganed more into Explosive for UWR Delver.
For UW Miracles, I still dont know what kind of hand should be kept or not.

[Megadeus]

Got to borrow the deck that Tyrio Top 8'd SCG Nash with from him tonight. Oh. So much fun. First time I have ever played lands before. I loved it. Went 3-0-3 (I dont think I played slower than I usually do, I'm just getting used to playing 15-20 turns EVERY game).

R1 0-0-1 Jund

He won game 1 On the back of DRS and Bob if I remember and I get PFired out. Game 2 I grind him down and he eventually scoops when I am PFiring him ftw. Game 3 we hit turns. I am 2 and 4. If I had been 1-3-5 I could have Intuitioned and made Lage and won on T5. Unfortunately I punt around and almost lose due to being bad and doing a poor intuition pile. Fortunately he also punts and taps his only red source that can cast a lethal PFire.

R2 1-0-1 Shardless Counterbalance BUG (with lots of basics)

He gets a pile of walkers out and I feel like I am dead. He doesnt ultimate liliana when he has her at 7 with a jace at 5 and CB/Top on board. I sneak EE for 3 (with 4 CMC thanks to wasteland) around his CB and blow Lily up. Next turn I recur it on upkeep and blow jace up. Then he eventually realizes the writing is on the wall while I keep recurring EE to destroy anything he can deploy and scoops. Game 2 I Just Pfire everything, have Exploration out and get lage out and he cant beat it

R3 2-0-1 Mono Red Sneak Attack

I heard him talking about playing "All in Red" before the tourney so I assume it means Sneak Attack. I have the misers Gamble and T1 Gamble for Ensnaring Bridge. I get to keep it. He doesnt have a very fast hand and I get bridge out. I slowly am PFiring him while he sits back and hopes to just draw enough Inferno Titans to kill me. He eventually scoops. Game 2 We go into a top deck war I port him off of mana for a bit, but he eventually gets a blood moon down. I fortunately rip a revoker, Name Sneak Attack, then rip another revoker and name Griselbrand. He shows me his hand after I beat him down and it has both of those cards in it.

R4 2-0-2 GB "Rock?"

It's Tyrio. he is undefeated and paired down. I offer to ID with him since he lent me the deck. He refuses and say we should battle anyway. I seem to have a god hand of T1 Mox Diamond, Exploration, Land, Land, Loam, T2 Intuition. Unfortunately I punt around timing the DD with his wasteland and when I finally make lage, I am at 4 and he has a Geths Verdict for him. I Tolaria West for Glacial Chasm to keep alive, unfortunately I cant keep my loam alive due to Bojuka Bog and he grinds me out. Game 2 I Take early control, he doesnt rip many lands, and I PFire him to death. Game 3 he Extirpates the Loams :( and I durdle around. He gets liliana and I am forced to Intuition for 3 Tolaria West to get a Grove of the Burnwillows to keep PFire going. Unfortunately we go to time and I cant kill him fast enough.

R5 Reanimator

He is paried down and with ID he gets in. I have a very good chance of getting in so I say screw it and we ID.

Top 8 vs Esper Delver Blade

Something like that. I get early Tabernacle after he gets bob and bob draws him a lot of cards but no lands and he is stuck with 1 lands for awhile until he gets another plus delver. Fortunately His draws arent overly strong and my deck just thrashes him for the most part. Game 2 he mulled to 4, said fuck it, and gave me the win.

So I didn't technically lose a match all night despite punting around and durdling to time a lot! The deck is great, I loved playing it, and I look forward to joining the ranks of Lands players at some point!

[snorlaxcom]

Jund should be a bye, but it really helps to know what your opp is on and if you need the early answer to drs. Based on your activity I thought you already played lands? Those Intuitions can be very forgiving, but getting the right pile is another learning curve in the deck.

[Megadeus]

Jund should be a bye, but it really helps to know what your opp is on and if you need the early answer to drs. Based on your activity I thought you already played lands? Those Intuitions can be very forgiving, but getting the right pile is another learning curve in the deck.

I have been contemplating building it and I like the deck a lot. I played Aggro Loam for awhile. Lands is a whole different beast however

[GoldenCid]

Has anybody tested Course of Kruphix?

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Has anybody tested Course of Kruphix?

Seems bad unless you have it in the opener, or you run volrath's stronghold, and make it to turn 10...

[dafrk3in]

Seems bad unless you have it in the opener, or you run volrath's stronghold, and make it to turn 10...

Honestly, it just seems bad. If you try it and it works out, let us know!

[GoldenCid]

Meddling mage soubds really good, but i should tweak the manabase a little (going up to 4 fetchs) because i dont think i can hit uw consistently right now




Thats what you should do if there are too many moon effects in your meta...

Also, you may want 4 krosan grips in the sb and play 4 fetchs so you can get your forest out as quickly as possible.

Nice to meet you KntrellCL!! could you tell us something about you passat GP side events!?

GC

[tewatate]

Hi everyone, after a long time not playing magic, I restarted playing and built a RG combolands deck.
I played my first tournament since long yesterday (although the deck wasn't complete yet, as you'll see).
Since I follow this thread for some time to build the deck, I'll post my results here, I would appreciate some feedback!

My decklist:
4 life from the loam
4 punishing fire
4 crop rotation
4 gamble
2 manabond
4 exploration
4 mox diamond

2 forest
1 badlands
1 taiga
4 wooded foothills
1 bloodstained mire
3 maze of ith
3 wasteland
4 rishadan port
1 the tabernacle at pendrell vale
1 grove of the burnwillows
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 bojuka bog
3 dark depths
4 thespian's stage
1 glacial chasm
3 tranquil thicket

3 Krosan Grip
2 pithing needle
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 duress
1 raven's crime
1 chalice of the void

I actually wanted to play 4 groves, and play spheres of resistance and thorn of amethyst in the side (probably four of them both), but couldn't gather them in time so I used 8 1CCdiscardspells (duress and inquisition). I played 6 rounds in a 34-people tournament, went 3-1-2.

R1: Miracles 2-0
G1 went a long time, but I lost after he dealt with the token 3 times (2x terminus, 1 swords), counterbalance and top locked my loam out. G2 I boarded in 8 discardspells, which I used turn 1 to discard a swords, and see that he had nothing relevant. I went for the token as fast as possible (turn 3 with urborg), during my turn four he blocked it with a flashed vendilion clique (wasnt there when I played duress), next turn he played a karakas (also wasnt there before) and bounced my token. I manascrewed myself because I croprotated a green manasource earlier for depths-stage-urborg, with jace he kept me colorscrewed and won.

R2: shardless BUG 2-0
Two quick wins, this seems a very good matchup, without sideboardcards that are very threatening, looking back at it.
I sided 2 needles game 2 for deathrite shaman.

R3: UWR Delver 2-0
He did not play basics, and I wastelocked him two games.
I sideboarded again 8 discardcards (some lands, 3 pfire and 2 manabond out) in to get an early RIP, or a swords before I made the token.

R4: BWU 1-1-1
I won game 1, although he blew up my first turn double mox with his first turn engineered explosives.
G2 I sided again 8 discardspells, and it got me a Rip. He played lingering souls some times for many tokens, which i tried to deal with by Pfire. The game took a long time, and he landed RIP and eventually won through equipped tokens and batterskull after swording my token. We only played a couple of turns G3 and went overtime, but he had RIP on the field by then, so i feel lucky for this draw.

R5: UWR Delver 0-2
G1 I went for the token as fast as possible, but received hits by a delver and a single bolt. The turn I would make the token (which would bring me back in the game, even when he sworded me and giving me 20 life, I had loam in hand) I was at 5 life, and he had 2x bolt to finish me.
G2 I lost because he spellpierced all my keyspells, also 1 crop rotation which set me back. Perhaps I played them to fast (left 1 mana open for a possible daze, but not 2). He got meddling mage into play, naming loam, and through stoneforge mystic he protected it from Pfire with swords of fire and ice.

R6: Enchantress 2-1
G1 surprised me as I don't know this deck very well, with elephant grass he bought himself enough time to get his drawengine going, and eventually hardcasting emrakul. Rishadan port worked here, by tapping his enchanted lands.
G2 I took him by speed, by gambling turn 1 for manabond. Even though he slowed me down a lot with suppression field (fetchlands, cycling, etc cost 2 more), I outspeeded him through manabond, loam and cyclelands.
G3 I had a firstturn exploration, which made a quick combo possible with crop rotation at his end of turn (he did have elephant grass in his hand, but didn't play it because he felt safe with only 1 combopiece on the table).

My enjoyed playing it a lot, but found white decks with both swords and RIP and especially miracles very difficult, as I lost twice against them, 1 draw, only 1 win. Are there tips when playing against these decks (especially miracles)?
I did only run discard because I lacked spheres and thorns, but they did work for me against these white cards (get RIP, or swords before comboing). In the meantime I suppose they remain a good T1 answer against combo (which I didn't face). Does anybody have experience with discard? Or should I opt for manadenial through spheres and thorns instead?

Regards - Tewatate

[GoldenCid]

Interesting that you have such success with such an atypical list!

[tewatate]

Interesting that you have such success with such an atypical list!
Thanks!
I had the impression that my opponents didn't know very well how to play against lands.
Some fun stuff that happened:
Opponent forgot to pay for Tabernacle, flipped Delver dies.
Judge is called because my opponent thinks that I forgot to pay for my token (because of Tabernacle). But it is indestructible.
An opponent sided in Engineered Explosives, and drops two for X=0, probably assuming that he is now safe. When he attempts to blow the token, he finds out that he can't (indestructible), but that he did blow up his own second Explosive.
Opponent (UWR Delver) misses his second landdrop, I croprotate for wasteland while having loam in hand for wastelock.

[GoldenCid]

Thanks!
I had the impression that my opponents didn't know very well how to play against lands.
Some fun stuff that happened:
Opponent forgot to pay for Tabernacle, flipped Delver dies.
Judge is called because my opponent thinks that I forgot to pay for my token (because of Tabernacle). But it is indestructible.
An opponent sided in Engineered Explosives, and drops two for X=0, probably assuming that he is now safe. When he attempts to blow the token, he finds out that he can't (indestructible), but that he did blow up his own second Explosive.
Opponent (UWR Delver) misses his second landdrop, I croprotate for wasteland while having loam in hand for wastelock.


Remember. Tabernacle does not destroy creatures. Makes you and your opo sacrifice them.

[Rampart]

Remember. Tabernacle does not destroy creatures. Makes you and your opo sacrifice them.

That's wrong. Tabernacle the land gives all creatures the effect of "pay one mana or destroy this creature".

[KntrellCL]

Nice to meet you KntrellCL!! could you tell us something about you passat GP side events!?



GC



Nice to meet you too, GC! I had a great time in Argentina, everyone was very kind and played very well at both tournaments.



I made some changes since the last deck list and they worked very good.



-1 Maze of Ith (4th copy) for 1 Dark Depths

-1 Ghost Quarter for 1 Thespian's Stage

-1 Creeping Tar Pit for 1 Bojuka Bog

-1 Fetchland for 1 Karakas (2nd copy main)



Deck list



4 Life from the Loam

3 Intuition

4 Exploration

4 Mox Diamond

2 Manabond

3 Punishing Fire

2 Engineered Explosives

1 Ensnaring Bridge

1 Zuran Orb



4 Wasteland

4 Rishadan Port

3 Maze of Ith

1 Thespian's Stage



2 Grove of the Burnwillows

1 Forest

3 Tropical Island

2 Taiga

1 Bayou

1 Wooded Foothills

1 Misty Rainforest

1 Verdant Catacombs



2 Tranquil Thicket

3 Tolaria West

1 Bojuka Bog

1 Glacial Chasm

2 Karakas

1 Academy Ruins

1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

1 Dark Depths


SB

4 Dark Confidant

4 Chalice of the Void

3 Sphere of Resistance

3 Krosan Grip

1 Engineered Explosives



Day 1:

First round I played against Jund

First game was very fast as I locked him out with manabond loam and wasteland. I didnt see much of the deck, but I boarded in 4 Bobs, 4 Chalice and 1 Engineered Explosives. He played Scavenging Ooze as anti GY SB, but they got Pfire'd every time since he didnt have much mana.

1-0

Round 2 UWR Patriot

Game one was very grindy, I didnt take control of his lands so I took the long way of locking him up with engineered explosives and wait until he conceded. Game 2 i put an early Marit Lage which got STP giving me enough time to take control of the board.

2-0

Round 3 BUG Cascade


My intial hand was sick. I was on the play with land, exploration, fetch mox into loam with wasteland back up and scoops after a few turns since I can waste his fetchs land and his lands. Game 2 I lost with a huge board and DRS. Game 3 I take the same control as game 1 and GG.

3-0

Round 4 Elves!


First game was very intensive. I was on the play (I knew he was on Elves) and kept a hand with engineered explosives, loam and punishing fire... he puts a Leyline of the Void and that was it... I played an Engineered Explosives for 1 making him to play around it. I had to cast intuition for almost no value (first pile was 2 lands I need plus Tolaria west, get the west) and then another intuition for Tabernacle, glacial and Tolaria... got to double transmute for the combo, take down some Elves with my turn 1 Explosive and lost 1 turn before I could put my Marit Lage.

Game 2 and 3 I put double chalice at 1 and won game 3 on turns with Lage.

4-0

Round 5 Jace control

I was very familiar with this deck since I played a very similar list last year, it was a RUG control deck with jace, punishing fire, explosives, etc... his mana base was very greedy and scooped after a few wastelands and punishing him until he got bored.


Game 2 i was afraid of have not seeing enough of the deck and sb in krosan grip any way with bobs and chalice.... he counter'd my chalice turn 1 and my bob got into play turn 2 and gets me 3 extra cards until he got blocked with a snapcaster mage. But i got karakas, port, stage depths combo in play... so end of turn I tapped his Karakas, put Lage into play, bounce his vendilion and take the win.


Day 2


This tournament was veeeery special for me since I got 2 game losses and 1 Warning hahaha.


First round I got GL for being 6 minutes late after being waiting almost 2 hours for the tournament get started.


UWR Miracles...


First couples of turns I didnt realize he was on Miracles since he got a lot of dual lands on the first turns, but after seing some basic lands I figured out (Probably he send me a lot of signs with ponders, not playing any bolt, etc but I was very tilted with the GL since it was my first GL in my entire life). So I took again, the long road of academy ruins lock and scoops. Second game i was afraid of the worst.... Blood Moon and Rest in Peace combo...


Game 2 I had depths 1 rishadan port 1 forest in hand with mox diamond and bob... so I discard the Forest in hope to get some value from my port and landed bob... he puts a Blood moon into play and bounce 3 times my bob with jace (I guess he took out STP since he didnt try to dig for answers) and finally Grip his blood moon and port all the red sources... until he finds another fetch and play the second blood moon and the first rest in peace... so now I can get helm any time, I attacked with bob like it was no tomorrow (i supposed he took out snapcaster mage since he put RIP in) and stole the game with an EOT grip his moon and put marit lage on play.


Second Round i got paired with a Chilean friend... what a bummer :( aaaaaaaand I got a warning since I dredge 3 cards away and the 4th card got flip. He didnt realize but I call the judge and got my deck shuffle (it was an ensnaring bridge)


He was on merfolks with relic of progenitus main x4.


Game 1 he puts 2 lords, 1 cursedcatcher and a mutavault which got wastelanded... countered my first punishing fire with the second* lord on the stack to finally get everything blown out with engineered explosives at 2

Game 2 was very tight since he landed a relic of progenitus, but he tapped his mana (Except for 1 fetchland) to cast a True name nemesis... my turn I play explosives for 1, tapped his fetchland with port and blown my explosives in respond. Got down into 9 lives until I landed the third punishing fire and GG.


Round 2 ended very quickly but I stay there all the time asking how much it was left... on the third time I asked... i got 1 minute late into the table and got a second game loss... -.-


Round 3 Tin fins


I was on the play (0-1) and my deck seems to be connected with me hahaha I play land exploration into wasteland... my oponent plays an underground sea ponder.... turn 2 play a second wasteland, mox diamond into intuition for depths stage loam and waste his land away. T2 he plays a delta into brainstorm and pass... T3 I dredge, cast loam and put lage turn 3 (since he cant cast a liliana and played around wasteland) he conceded.


Since I didnt see anything else except for ponder, brainstorm and deltas... I put him in reanimator, tin fins, tes or still in some UB control) so chalice, bob, spheres comes into play....


he plays a lands and pass... i put a chalice at 1 and he brainstorm in response... it pass... turn 2 I play a port and pass... turn 3 I play a bob and a sphere and GG


Round 4 and 5 intentional draw with a maverick and a jund deck which it was very convenient for me to see them in the top 8.


Top 8 I got paired against a BUG deck... I was on the play (since i got better place in the swiss rounds) I mull to 5 cards and lost to 3 DRS and see no engineered Explosives...


Game 2 I call the judge because he was looking at the deck everytime he shuffle and i had already told him... he got a warning. I manage to put 3 Bobs and 2 maze against his 2 lands and goyf... attacking for 6... taking back the blocked bob and a back up maze for his goyf.


Game 3 I kept an OK hand with triple engineered explosives... He plays a delver turn 1, I put enginereed... turn two he flips his delver showing an abrupt decay and plays a second delver... went to 17... turn 3 he tried to flip his delver and fails (i was upset with that, since I want to blow both of them with a second explosives) but I cant put the second engineered without 4 mana (making his decay very valuable) so I took the damage like a man... finally I stabilize the table but got hymn to tourach (taking my third explosive and a land, it was strange to keep hymn to tourach for game 3... nevermind) and went to top deck mode... and he lands a bob... I got LFTL but no accelerations... he lands a lot of threats and I started to dig for answers... get 2 maze of iths (i was expecting for Punishing fire since I had grove of the burnwillows in hand and maze cant produce mana, making my mana development worst) until he overrun me with goyf, ooze, delver, bob and double DRS -.- GG


I made 8-1-2 in total and had a really good time meeting new players. My colegues also made into top 8 (3rd place and 8nd)... so we went to a nice restourant and celebrate


May be I would play again Tar Pit main and put Dark Depths in SB instead of the 3rd engineered Explosives... since people are keeping STP main deck in game 2, making my bobs less valuable!


Jess Cantrell Zalaquett

[GoldenCid]

Congrats!! It is a good performance for lands. Respect to what you said about removal and bob i think that keeping stp/bolt in g2 is one of the drawbacks of running marita.
Creeping as a good land can be sac to zuran in resp to removal....it is all about testing i guess


Enviado desde mi XT890 mediante Tapatalk

[baboontilt]

I've been lurking in the thread for a while, and having finally picked up a Tabernacle, am about to launch on my maiden voyage with the deck. I played the Kasper Euser Bant list at SCG St. Louis, but that is my only real experience with the archetype (and it is of course a drastically different deck). This is the list I am considering taking to a Legacy Super IQ next month:

4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb

4 Life From the Loam
3 Intuition
3 Punishing Fire
2 Crop Rotation

1 Academy Ruins
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Maze of Ith
3 Tropical Island
2 Tolaria West
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Forest
3 Green Fetch
2 Taiga
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port

SB
3 Krosan Grip
4 Dark Confidant
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Phyrexian Revoker

These are the concerns/issues I have with the list:
• Tutor Package: I am a huge fan of Intuition, and love all the value piles. It is a bit slower, and I tried to acknowledge that with the inclusion of a pair of Crop Rotations. I prefer to stay away from Gambles and Entombs, but could be convinced to try them out.
• Splash Color: This is only in regards to the sideboard, but I opted for black (Dark Confidants) over white (Thalia/Canonist). I have seen enough lists each way that I feel it is just personal preference, but again am open to suggestions. I am hoping that the colorless hate with D-conf acceleration will suffice.
• Creeping Tar Pit: I wanted another way to battle walkers, not sure if this is me being overly scared or a nice addition. Does give me another source for my black splash. That being said, I'm not sure Bayou + Moxen + Bog is enough to reliably activate it.
• MD Omissions: A singleton Manabond felt a bit too arbitrary for me, so I opted for tutors (Crop Rotation) and a Tutorable powerful effect (Crucible) instead. I also wouldn't mind finding a way to squeeze in a 2/2 combo split.
• Sideboard Options: I wouldn't mind Ensnaring Bridge, additional Revokers, or Swan Songs. Just not sure of the optimal configuration of all the hate. A third EE here or even in the main would also be nice for TNN matchups.
I realize most of the options are subjective, but would love to hear opinions from the Lands community. Any tips or advice for a first-timer would also be appreciated!

[Sparkii]

Cut the second taiga for the thicket if you really want it.

You can find my list a page or so back, I split the finals of a 56 person tourney, my list has thicket and a 2-2 combo split, same tutor package as you.

[GoldenCid]

Or the ghost quarter

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[baboontilt]

Cut the second taiga for the thicket if you really want it.

You can find my list a page or so back, I split the finals of a 56 person tourney, my list has thicket and a 2-2 combo split, same tutor package as you.

I got a lot of inspiration from your list if you couldn't tell :wink:

I think it might be worth just cutting a Taiga/the Tar Pit for the other 2 combo pieces. Looking at my list now I realize I had already squeezed a Thicket in, I will go back and edit.


Or the ghost quarter

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Do you not like the option to bleed a deck out of basics, or just feel that it is one of the more expendable utility lands?

[KntrellCL]

I've been lurking in the thread for a while, and having finally picked up a Tabernacle, am about to launch on my maiden voyage with the deck. I played the Kasper Euser Bant list at SCG St. Louis, but that is my only real experience with the archetype (and it is of course a drastically different deck). This is the list I am considering taking to a Legacy Super IQ next month:

4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb

4 Life From the Loam
3 Intuition
3 Punishing Fire
2 Crop Rotation

1 Academy Ruins
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Maze of Ith
3 Tropical Island
2 Tolaria West
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Forest
3 Green Fetch
2 Taiga
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port

SB
3 Krosan Grip
4 Dark Confidant
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Phyrexian Revoker

These are the concerns/issues I have with the list:
• Tutor Package: I am a huge fan of Intuition, and love all the value piles. It is a bit slower, and I tried to acknowledge that with the inclusion of a pair of Crop Rotations. I prefer to stay away from Gambles and Entombs, but could be convinced to try them out.
• Splash Color: This is only in regards to the sideboard, but I opted for black (Dark Confidants) over white (Thalia/Canonist). I have seen enough lists each way that I feel it is just personal preference, but again am open to suggestions. I am hoping that the colorless hate with D-conf acceleration will suffice.
• Creeping Tar Pit: I wanted another way to battle walkers, not sure if this is me being overly scared or a nice addition. Does give me another source for my black splash. That being said, I'm not sure Bayou + Moxen + Bog is enough to reliably activate it.
• MD Omissions: A singleton Manabond felt a bit too arbitrary for me, so I opted for tutors (Crop Rotation) and a Tutorable powerful effect (Crucible) instead. I also wouldn't mind finding a way to squeeze in a 2/2 combo split.
• Sideboard Options: I wouldn't mind Ensnaring Bridge, additional Revokers, or Swan Songs. Just not sure of the optimal configuration of all the hate. A third EE here or even in the main would also be nice for TNN matchups.
I realize most of the options are subjective, but would love to hear opinions from the Lands community. Any tips or advice for a first-timer would also be appreciated!

That decks seems about right, may be you can trim it a lit bit more.

Crucible of Worlds is decays food and you can fetch it naturally without intuition... i would replace it with something else... right now im with 1 bond (my 5th exploration for intuitions).

12 untapped green sources is a very good ratio in sources / utility lands making space for the second tranquil thicket (remember, thicket is GY hate counter and is your draw engines in games you didnt control the lands quickly enough and need to find answers).

I personally cut Ghost Quarter... is a good land, but if I cant win taking all his non basic with wasteland and basics with port... probably did something wrong, making ghost quarter a win more. Against death n taxes and miracles its almost hilarious.

With punishing fire, you can take control of planeswalker very well, and since you are not playing ensnaring bridge, your way to go in should be dark depths... we have always play 1 manland

SB I play the same as you but ensnaring bridge instead of revoker

[GoldenCid]

I
Do you not like the option to bleed a deck out of basics, or just feel that it is one of the more expendable utility lands?

Yeah i like the idea off course, but i think that we dont need to invest the loam-quarter machine so many timesto win the game.
Im lover of zuran - loam - chasm lock until we get the 20/20 active!

[tewatate]

Yeah i like the idea off course, but i think that we dont need to invest the loam-quarter machine so many timesto win the game.
Im lover of zuran - loam - chasm lock until we get the 20/20 active!

A question regarding chasm. For now I have it in maindeck, but I always seem to side it out G2.
And I have been thinking about dropping it entirely (I run it in a combo-heavy list, where it makes more sense to focus less on control).
Is that a very unwise thing to do (as it is maindecked in every posted decklist), or could it be acceptable in a combo-heavy list?

[dafrk3in]

A question regarding chasm. For now I have it in maindeck, but I always seem to side it out G2.
And I have been thinking about dropping it entirely (I run it in a combo-heavy list, where it makes more sense to focus less on control).
Is that a very unwise thing to do (as it is maindecked in every posted decklist), or could it be acceptable in a combo-heavy list?

Chasm isn't very good imo. I cut it from the main and then from the sideboard of a list similar to the Kurt Spiess SCG Baltimore list, and I haven't regretted it.

[amalek0]

Chasm is inherently there to protect yourself during a drawn-out game. By focusing on the combo and faster wins, you don't need the chasm--it's not part of the mana denial package (the thing that sets combo lands apart from other combo decks) and it doesn't do anything for you in the short game. I wouldn't even consider it except as sideboard tech against burn for a combolands build, and even then I'd probably get a 2nd zuran orb in the board against burn before I'd add in chasm. Now, for the control-oriented blue builds, I feel that chasm is necessary since chasm + thespian's stage gives you a perpetual lock-out against most fair decks, particularly if you have a zuran orb or an explore out.

[KntrellCL]

elves had almost no outs against chasm, neither does dredge, reanimator and other decks

[snorlaxcom]

elves had almost no outs against chasm, neither does dredge, reanimator and other decks

Reanimator has MD Rider or Tidespout, but chasm is definitely MD in a large event. For lgs I can see it being weak if you don't have a belcher guy to worry about.

[KntrellCL]

Reanimator has MD Rider or Tidespout, but chasm is definitely MD in a large event. For lgs I can see it being weak if you don't have a belcher guy to worry about.

yes, you are right... tidespout is just so powerful against us :( that's why im playing 2 crop main to give some more value to bojuka bog

[GoldenCid]

A question regarding chasm. For now I have it in maindeck, but I always seem to side it out G2.
And I have been thinking about dropping it entirely (I run it in a combo-heavy list, where it makes more sense to focus less on control).
Is that a very unwise thing to do (as it is maindecked in every posted decklist), or could it be acceptable in a combo-heavy list?

I see any version of lands as a control deck. The fact that we have a combo in side does not chance my focus. I cant get lands as a combo deck simply becasue it has not the arquitecture of a combo deck. Like enchantress we win with a "combo" but we must control the table because we have no resilience if the combo gets crapped.

GC.

[snorlaxcom]

I see any version of lands as a control deck. The fact that we have a combo in side does not chance my focus. I cant get lands as a combo deck simply becasue it has not the arquitecture of a combo deck. Like enchantress we win with a "combo" but we must control the table because we have no resilience if the combo gets crapped.

GC.

TNN has made chasm and crucible an auto inclusion in current lists. This combo is too strong against such a non-interactive threat. Just resolve Orb and is gg from there.

[Serbitar]

I see any version of lands as a control deck. The fact that we have a combo in side does not chance my focus. I cant get lands as a combo deck simply becasue it has not the arquitecture of a combo deck. Like enchantress we win with a "combo" but we must control the table because we have no resilience if the combo gets crapped.


I think this is not true of the RG Kurt Spiess inspired version of the deck. Sure, your mana denial keeps them busy somewhat but you will win most of your games by 'comboing' on an otherwise non-stable board.

[tewatate]

I see any version of lands as a control deck. The fact that we have a combo in side does not chance my focus. I cant get lands as a combo deck simply becasue it has not the arquitecture of a combo deck. Like enchantress we win with a "combo" but we must control the table because we have no resilience if the combo gets crapped.

GC.

This discussion reveals some interesting differences between the bluebased control version and the RG comboversion. With the comboversion you can choose to be agressive or controlling, and I find myself focussing a lot more on comboing out than controlling the game. There isnt alot your opponent can do against the token, except to swords it. And it comes down real fast with 7 or 8 1-mana-tutors. If it is exiled, you still gained 20 life, which gives you a lot of time to reassemble with loam (G2 RIP changes that though).

I think I will experiment with Sejiri Steppe in the side, increasing the focus on protecting the token or pushing through 20 damage past blockers.

This is from the point of view from RG combolands (based on what Kurt Spiess played and refined in 3 starcitytourneys), so definitely not for the bluebased version (with which I also haven't got experience).

[cuthbertthecat]

For those of you interested, I've been doing a bit of streaming with Lands over the last several days. I've played 4 dailies total, 3 on stream 1 not, and I've gone 3-1 twice and 2-2 twice, with one of the 2-2's being a 3-1 if I had played tighter and one of the 3-1's being a 4-0 for the same reason. I've 3-1'd with both Intuition lands and R/G combo lands, I'm leaning more towards the combo one as it just seems so much more powerful. Anyway, the broadcasts should be recorded at www.twitch.tv/cuthbertthecat , and I plan on doing a lot more streaming with lands in the future.

[tewatate]

For those of you interested, I've been doing a bit of streaming with Lands over the last several days. I've played 4 dailies total, 3 on stream 1 not, and I've gone 3-1 twice and 2-2 twice, with one of the 2-2's being a 3-1 if I had played tighter and one of the 3-1's being a 4-0 for the same reason. I've 3-1'd with both Intuition lands and R/G combo lands, I'm leaning more towards the combo one as it just seems so much more powerful. Anyway, the broadcasts should be recorded at www.twitch.tv/cuthbertthecat , and I plan on doing a lot more streaming with lands in the future.

I just saw you're testing with Primeval Titan in the sideboard and am curious about this one, did you already have a chance to use it vs Show and Tell?

[Jay_Gatz]

It's not just an anti show and tell card, it's a solid threat that dodges grave hate

[cuthbertthecat]

I just saw you're testing with Primeval Titan in the sideboard and am curious about this one, did you already have a chance to use it vs Show and Tell?

Not yet, though that is a pretty nice use for it. Honestly, I have yet to draw it, but I board it in against every fair non-blue deck. One could argue that that's such a small portion of the metagame that I should cut it, but I'm gonna keep testing it for a little while.

[tewatate]

Not yet, though that is a pretty nice use for it. Honestly, I have yet to draw it, but I board it in against every fair non-blue deck. One could argue that that's such a small portion of the metagame that I should cut it, but I'm gonna keep testing it for a little while.

I initially thought it to be a gamble target for the SnT matchup, just as chalice for fast combo. Do you think the deck needs an alternative wincondition, did you ever had your combo disabled in the games you played (such as extraction on one of the pieces, or needle on Thespian Stage)? I have thought of siding ancient grudge just because of needle.

[Jay_Gatz]

I bring it in against any deck I expect rest in peace from.

[Kap'n Cook]

For those of you interested, I've been doing a bit of streaming with Lands over the last several days. I've played 4 dailies total, 3 on stream 1 not, and I've gone 3-1 twice and 2-2 twice, with one of the 2-2's being a 3-1 if I had played tighter and one of the 3-1's being a 4-0 for the same reason. I've 3-1'd with both Intuition lands and R/G combo lands, I'm leaning more towards the combo one as it just seems so much more powerful. Anyway, the broadcasts should be recorded at www.twitch.tv/cuthbertthecat , and I plan on doing a lot more streaming with lands in the future.


Rewatched your stream from a night ago. Crop rotating in response to my painter would not have mattered. I had an ensnaring bridge in hand that I would have dropped over holding up the blast.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Has anyone tried an intuition/crop rotation build together? And not in a little 12 man tournament either....

[Sparkii]

Has anyone tried an intuition/crop rotation build together? And not in a little 12 man tournament either....

I split the finals of a 56 man with a list running 3x Intuition 2x Crop Rotation. It's probably 2-3 pages back.

[snorlaxcom]

Has anyone tried an intuition/crop rotation build together? And not in a little 12 man tournament either....

Yes. I go 3/3 and 3 twest for all my tourneys and did it for the gp richmond legacy challenge 3-1(130players+). I have been able to beat storm, ignore drs more often, and get fast ee locks. I am loving the fast access to karakas and grove. Having bog on tap has been an ace in the hole against decks going in blind vs me. Before, I had to wait to slow tutor with just twest to get a sweeper (tab) or grove out vs creature spamming decks and crop makes opposing wastes/ports less impactful against this gameplan.

[cuthbertthecat]

Rewatched your stream from a night ago. Crop rotating in response to my painter would not have mattered. I had an ensnaring bridge in hand that I would have dropped over holding up the blast.

Well, makes me feel less bad about the play for sure, but it was still horribly wrong to do what I did with the information that I had.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Yes. I go 3/3 and 3 twest for all my tourneys and did it for the gp richmond legacy challenge 3-1(130players+). I have been able to beat storm, ignore drs more often, and get fast ee locks. I am loving the fast access to karakas and grove. Having bog on tap has been an ace in the hole against decks going in blind vs me. Before, I had to wait to slow tutor with just twest to get a sweeper (tab) or grove out vs creature spamming decks and crop makes opposing wastes/ports less impactful against this gameplan.

3/3 it is then! You coming down to Charlotte for the open this weekend? I know we talked about it before.

[snorlaxcom]

Have to go to NY with family ): but give'em hell!

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Have to go to NY with family ): but give'em hell!

So I'm in North Carolina, ready to play in the invitational, and was debating on which mainboard I want to run with. I decided on Intuition, because it just seems better than gamble, since I'm not running a full fledged combo deck. I know in most matches I sideboard out Intuition, as I assume gamble is the same way. The only matches I don't is dredge and goblins. Does anybody feel that I should keep it in for any of the tier one decks? Also, Chalice seems very kinda bad-ish against BUG (except for surgical extraction) Do you guys side it in? I plan on bringing in sphere of resistance in as a 3 of in that match, and possibly some Dark Confidants.

[snorlaxcom]

So chalice on one is nuts vs bug. If they dont have AD in hand they do literal nothing. Chalice for one is the standard vs most decks because it stops the md gameplan and almost all gy hate. They usually don't have enough art removal and ruins into chalice can also be a clock vs them. I am against little spheres vs them because they can still resolve relevant 2cmc permanents that will then make ee comical if I need to detonate on 2 (bob,library,ooze). Sphere also doesn't do much if they have drs out. I feel chalice is more devestating and independant of your initial 7 and better to muligan into, unlike sphere that needs mana denial backup and doesn't protect loam. I go; -3 intuition, -3crop, -1chasm, (-2port/-1port, -1dd)
, +4chaliice, +3 bob, (+2revoker)

Intuition is actually a sweet game vs tendrils. Chalice for 0 buys me enough time to tutor and lock them out with 3sphere. I leave an Intuiton or 2 in vs d&t because of thier minimal interaction. I sometimes have 1 vs jund but only because I go 3 ee.

[dimignon]

Hi Guys,

I'm from Brazil, and the last weekend I organized a Legacy Tornament with 30 players and I play Lands, of course. I made 4-0-1, but I lost in the Top 8.

Here is the list I played:

4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Maze of Ith
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Tolaria West
3 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
1 Bayou
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Mox Diamond
1 Zuran Orb
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Crop Rotation
3 Intuition
3 Punishing Fire
4 Life from the Loam
4 Exploration

Sideboard

4 Dark Confidant
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Meekstone
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Torpor Orb
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Krosan Grip

In sideboard I played with Meekston and Torpor Orb because I just want to test, and Meekstone is very good aginst True-Name Namesis and Torbor Orb against Stoneforge decks and Goblins. Maybe I use Meekstone again, but Torpor Orb it is not necessary.

So this is the list I played in this championship.

And in this championship I record some games. Here is the one I played.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X5ShczaAqk

I don't remeber very good but I played against:

Round 1 - BUG Delver

I made 2 x 1

Round 2 - BUG Delver

I made 2 x 0

Round 3 - BG (Here is the game of the video)

I made 2 x 0

Round 4 - UWr Stoneblade

I made 2 x 1

Round 5 - RIP Miracles

Id

Top 8 - BG

I lost this match.

So, what guys think about this List?

[Anen]

I like Meekstone. And I like your Tabernacle playmat more :D

[mahelfri94]

Hey guys, it was me that t8'ed in Nashville. They actually transcribed the list wrong; there are only 60 cards and 2 Tranquil Thickets. My record that day was:

2-1 Affinity
2-0 RUG Delver
2-1 Merfolk
2-0 RUG Delver
1-2 BUG Delver
2-1 UR Omnitell
2-0 RG Combo Lands
1-1-1 Deathblade (unintentional draw)
1-0-1 Junk (went to time but I won game 1)

0-2 Sneak and Show

I designed the SB around the Sneak and Show because I absolutely despise the MU and bring in like 14 cards. It still wasn't enough in quarters though =/. I was thinking of maybe 1 Chalice in the board we could Westtolaria for and put on 0, but couldn't find space I didn't want to cut any more Bobs. Luckily for me I played against good match ups most of the day and only had to play 1 combo match in the Swiss (UR Omnitell - squeeked by with Spheres).

Would we ever bring in Gilded Drake/Duplicant et. all in against other decks? I tend to shy away from such targeted SB cards but maybe that's what we have to do to beat the SnS menace.

Do you have a specific sideboard plan that you follow? I've been playing an old Kovacs build for a while, but haven't updated anything in over a year. Wanted to get up to speed with some of the new changes.

[dimignon]

I like Meekstone. And I like your Tabernacle playmat more :D

The playmat is awesome. A friend of mine makes playmats, so I ask him to make one special for me. :tongue:

Now Meekstone is great, but in some games against TNN, I will make more tests in the sideboard.

[Tyrio]

Do you have a specific sideboard plan that you follow? I've been playing an old Kovacs build for a while, but haven't updated anything in over a year. Wanted to get up to speed with some of the new changes.

I've only been playing Lands for a few months (and at most only once a week or so) and my sideboard was kind of new and untested (Revokers and Swan Songs) so to be honest my sideboarding was kind erratic; I played a lot of it by ear.

The Dark Confidants, Grips, Decay, EBridge and Spheres are pretty self-explanatory. Revokers come in against DRS, Miracles and combo. Swan Songs also comes in against combo, but they could potentially be used against decks like Miracles as well. It's definitely an untested card and I haven't had too much opportunity to see it in use. There's probably a very good chance that it's just worse than Chalice or additional sphere effects but I wanted to try and diversify my hate. No one expects their Blood Moons to turn into a bird ;)

As for what came out, it was usually something like all the Intuitions, Manabond, Karakas and Bojuka Bog (if they had no use, obvs) for the Bobs, Decay and EBridge/Revokers against fair decks. After those first 6 cards it became just shaving off random mediocre stuff, like maybe Oblivion Stone against tempo, a Wasteland against Miracles, one Rishadan Port, etc.

[baboontilt]

Made the finals of a small local tournament today, my first time piloting the deck. My list was:

4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb

4 Life From the Loam
3 Intuition
3 Punishing Fire
2 Crop Rotation

1 Academy Ruins
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Maze of Ith
3 Tropical Island
2 Tolaria West
2 Thespian's Stage
2 Dark Depths
1 Forest
3 Green Fetch
1 Taiga
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port

SB
3 Krosan Grip
4 Dark Confidant
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Phyrexian Revoker

Round 1: Affinity 2-0, 1-0
Game 1 he Thoughtseizes turn 1on the draw and takes an Intuition over Crop Rotation/Crucible, then plays a couple inconsequential creatures. I play out a Mox Diamond and Crucible, and ship the turn. He lands a Tezzeret on turn 2, and I untap and draw the second Crop Rotation. He floods the board but doesn't have a flier, so I combo out. I bring in Revokers, K-Grips, and I believe some Bobs.

Game 2 Tabernacle and Port keep his forces manageable, I naturally draw the combo and Grip his blocker to swing for lethal.

Both games he was representing lethal the turn after I killed him; quickly assembling the combo seems to be the best option in this matchup.

Round 2: RIP/Helm MUD 2-0, 2-0
Game 1 I wastelock him early, seeing only a Cavern on Construct, a Voltaic Key, and several Ancient Dens. Not entirely sure what his list looks like, I bring in Grips, Revokers, and Ensnaring Bridge.

Game 2: I get double Port going, but he has a mana-heavy draw featuring Grim Monolith. Luckily I am able to keep him off white mana long enough to assemble the Combo. I do make a mistake in not immediately cashing in Engineered Explosives on his Staff of Domination, allowing him to untap and draw a card. It does more than combo off it seems :p

This matchup seems tough with MD RIP and mana-rocks, but I was able to pull it out regardless.

Round 3: Esper Deathblade 1-0-1, 3-0
Game 1: He lands double Deathrite early, but after fighting through a couple counterspells, I EE them away, and then a TNN follow-up. This was a long, drawn-out game that took about 40 minutes. He StP'd 3 Marit Lages, and saw 4 Deathrites, 3 TNNS, 3 Stoneforges, and 2 Snapcasters. I cast the same EE probably 7+ times. Although it took forever, he should have scooped to allow himself a chance to win. I brought in BOBs, Revokers, Chalices, and 2 Grips.

Game 2: Trying to go for a quick win, he floods the board and I am able to EE away double Deathrite, Punishing Fire Stoneforge, then EE a TNN. I land an Explosives on 1 and a Bob as we go to time.

Round 4: ID with Imperial Painter 3-0-1

Top 4: Tin Fins 2-1, 4-0-1
Game 1: I keep a slow hand that relies on an Intuition on the Draw, likely a mistake. Mulling to find a Crop Rotation seems worse, what do you guys think? He turn 1 Thoughtseizes, I Waste him and he untaps and wins- well then. I bring in Bobs, Chalices, Sphere, and Revokers.

Games 2 and 3 are both a grind involving Chalices, Revokers, Wastes, Ports Crop Rotation into Bog (both games!), and Karakas. He gripes about Chalice and Revoker, giving the "sure, must be nice" sort of vibe. I politely tell him I just wanted to try and take more than 1 turn each game.

Finals: Imperial Painter, 0-2, 4-1-1
Game 1: He thinks for a while, and finally decides to keep. He draws for the turn, and immediately casts Blood Moon off Ancient Tomb and Simian Spirit Guide. I have the basic forest and an EE, so I decide to try and draw to Mox Diamond. I eventually hit it, but his turns have gone:
T2 Land, Lotus Petal, Imperial Recruiter for Servant. T3 Servant. T4 Draw the Grindstone, land, gg. I had double Waste/Double port, so had I had one turn of reprieve to blow the Blood Moon I might have been in it. I bring in Bobs, Revokers, and K-Grips.

Game 2: I have early double Port, but he has a Top and plenty of time to sculpt as I don't draw additional pressure. Kept a Bob hand with no black, perhaps should have sent it back. Eventually, he assembles the combo and kills me.

This was my first time playing the deck, and I have not tested at all, so I likely made several small mistakes along the way. The most difficult thing for me all day was Sideboarding, more specifically deciding what to cut. Revokers were excellent in every match, I am glad I went up to 2 (at the last minute cut 2 Spheres from the board for the 2nd + the Bridge).

[Sparkii]

You're missing 2 cards in the maindeck if I counted correctly, maybe Tranquil Thicket?

Looks very close to the maindeck I've been playing for a few months, I really like the 2/2 Depths/Stage split.

[sarahiscute]

hi, my lands deck but include black

//Lands
1 Bayou
3 Dark Depths
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Maze of Ith
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ancient Tomb----------------------when u can combo with three lands only by casting crop rotation for ancient tomb. can catch opponent off guard
1 Swamp
2 Taiga
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Thespian's Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

//Spells
3 Crop Rotation
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
2 Life from the Loam-----------i only include 2 because i can use gamble to look for it.
1 Raven's Crime----------------can cast again and again to clear players hands
4 Smallpox-------------------- i dun noe why...but seems good.....should i take this out? if i took this out then raven's crime will be taken out then no more black and put in Enigneered explosive...together with 2 x buried ruins (M12)?

4 Mox Diamond
4 Punishing Fire

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 4 Dark Confidant
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation
SB: 3 Krosan Grip

thinking of putting in 3 x Cephalid Coliseum for drawing purposes ,the land is better than faithless looting as i can search for it. as for blue mana, well....can always rely on mox diamond or can add in academy ruins...or put in 1 x underground seas. or use them to tap each other....LOL....i dun noe.

i am kinda confused with my side board. dun know what to swapped out when facing sneak and show...ant.....miracles....

i am comparing with buried ruins with academy ruins....which is better?

[non-inflammable]

not sure if cephalid coliseum was ever a main deck choice but I do like the interaction and all the possible Loam triggers of "draw 3 cards".

[baboontilt]

You're missing 2 cards in the maindeck if I counted correctly, maybe Tranquil Thicket?

Looks very close to the maindeck I've been playing for a few months, I really like the 2/2 Depths/Stage split.

I double-checked and it looks like 60, but I have been considering another Thicket.

@Sarahiscute:
Academy Ruins is miles ahead of Buried Ruin with EE in the deck, that is a common way to answer threats/help you stabilize. I think the downside of another colorless land in Ancient Tomb outweighs the potential to rotate into an unexpected combo kill. If you are running Raven's Crime I also like Entomb as a tutor for that/Loam.

[sarahiscute]

hi, ok after much thought..i am gona go with this deck list: still considering putting in 1 x zuran orb

//Lands
3 Dark Depths
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Maze of Ith
3 Cephalid Coliseum
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Taiga
3 Tranquil Thicket
3 Thespian's Stage
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland

//Spells
3 Crop Rotation
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
3 Life from the Loam
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
4 Punishing Fire

total: 61 cards

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 4 Dark Confidant
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation
SB: 3 Krosan Grip

[tewatate]

hi, ok after much thought..i am gona go with this deck list: still considering putting in 1 x zuran orb



You can drop ancient tomb for urborg, tomb of yawgmoth, it will do the same thing (combo with 3 lands), with the upside of all your mazes, tabernacle, ... producing mana as well.
I wonder how Cephalid Coliseum will work out, cause it comes at the cost of dropping rishadan port, but it does dig for pieces or loam (although it has threshold, and might be too slow). You should run tropical Island since you have 4 lands that need blue to be activated, instead of the mountain. I would also try to add a 4th fetchland (because youre a little low on G-producing lands).

[sarahiscute]

can't find any tropical island..looks like blue mana will have to come from mox diamond or use thespian stage to copy Cephalid Coliseum or opponent's lands if required .LOL.

//Lands
2 Dark Depths
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Academy Ruins
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Forest
2 Taiga
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Windswept Heath---------cant find 1 more Wooded Foothills.
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland

//Spells
3 Crop Rotation
1 Zuran Orb
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
3 Life from the Loam
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
4 Punishing Fire

total: 61 cards

//Sideboard-- copy from Kurt Speiss
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Primeval Titan
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Dark Depths

[Tyrio]

can't find any tropical island..looks like blue mana will have to come from mox diamond or use thespian stage to copy Cephalid Coliseum or opponent's lands if required .LOL.

//Lands
2 Dark Depths
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Academy Ruins
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Forest
2 Taiga
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Windswept Heath---------cant find 1 more Wooded Foothills.
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland

//Spells
3 Crop Rotation
1 Zuran Orb
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
3 Life from the Loam
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
4 Punishing Fire

total: 61 cards

//Sideboard-- copy from Kurt Speiss
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Primeval Titan
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Dark Depths

Having Academy Ruins, Coliseum and Zuran Orb seems very poor without a fetchable blue source. I also never liked the 4 fetch, 3 fetchable lands configuration in RG Lands. Why not just run more Taigas? I imagine the upside of having more lands that actually make mana outweighs the amount of games where you randomly get screwed by an opponent burning all his Wastelands on your Taigas.

[Serbitar]

I also never liked the 4 fetch, 3 fetchable lands configuration in RG Lands. Why not just run more Taigas? I imagine the upside of having more lands that actually make mana outweighs the amount of games where you randomly get screwed by an opponent burning all his Wastelands on your Taigas.

Obviously fetchlands synergize with Loam, but with only three fetchable lands that might be marginal. On the other hand, the situations where a third Taiga would 'do' something seem fringe as well. I think the configuration might just be a relic of three color builds (4 Fetch, 2 Taiga, 1 Bayou). Guess I will go to three Taiga, three Fetch once I pick up a third Taiga ;)

[justfortherecord]

Curious on what peoples' thoughts on Smokestack is in this deck? Even if you just use Exploration/Manabond to replace lands you just sacced, Smokestack would eat up the opponent's board in a hurry.. particularly if you are porting/Ith'ing away what's left while you assemble the combo. You remain basically constant in terms of permanent count the whole time. I guess it really comes down to if you want to just go for the combo or go for the lock.

I was playing against a mono blue deck and Ghost Quarter wasn't doing much.. he kept hunting for basics. I had 2 powered ports out, Tabernacle, Ith and he was still getting through.. it wasn't until I was down to 2 and Glacial Chasm came up that I got the lock. Until then none of my effects were "permanent" enough. I feel like Smokestack would have been pretty brutal for my opponent here since I had 2 Loams cycling and 2 Explorations out. Can always just dump the Smokestack to itself too when it has served its purpose. Raven's Crime would have been nice too, but the threats were already there. I did not have Grove/PFire online at the moment (dredged up a Grove near the end of the game).

Thoughts?

[snorlaxcom]

Curious on what peoples' thoughts on Smokestack is in this deck? Even if you just use Exploration/Manabond to replace lands you just sacced, Smokestack would eat up the opponent's board in a hurry.. particularly if you are porting/Ith'ing away what's left while you assemble the combo. You remain basically constant in terms of permanent count the whole time. I guess it really comes down to if you want to just go for the combo or go for the lock.

I was playing against a mono blue deck and Ghost Quarter wasn't doing much.. he kept hunting for basics. I had 2 powered ports out, Tabernacle, Ith and he was still getting through.. it wasn't until I was down to 2 and Glacial Chasm came up that I got the lock. Until then none of my effects were "permanent" enough. I feel like Smokestack would have been pretty brutal for my opponent here since I had 2 Loams cycling and 2 Explorations out. Can always just dump the Smokestack to itself too when it has served its purpose. Raven's Crime would have been nice too, but the threats were already there. I did not have Grove/PFire online at the moment (dredged up a Grove near the end of the game).

Thoughts?

Raise EE count to kill things that need to be removed (TNN) and stop messing around with stack. EE removes the threat in one turn and loam+twest makes it more consistent vs countermagic. Intuition is having one hell of a time resolving here, so don't bank on having virtual 4-5 copies of stack. Stack can kill basics faster than quartering vs a monocolored deck yes, but they can pitch lands and/or a fresh permanent to stack for multiple turns. You will have then achieved nothing against the aggro deck from beating your face and have now wasted the invested mana in the endeavor.

[sarahiscute]

since many players playing lands like to play artefact with blue. i created a lands deck with artifact but no blues---only red and green.

//Lands
2 Dark Depths
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Buried Ruin-----------------------some say its no good. it take artifact from graveyard and put into your hand--seem good to me. academy ruins put the artifact to the top of library.
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Forest
2 Taiga
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland

//Spells
3 Crop Rotation
1 Zuran Orb---------------this or ensnaring bridge or winter orb
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
3 Life from the Loam
2 Engineered Explosives-------feel like changing to Nevinyrral's Disk or oblivion stone. EE require colours and i only have R&G. with exploration and mana bond i should be able to get it out fast.
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
2 Punishing Fire

//Sideboard
SB: 3 defense grid
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Primeval Titan
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Dark Depths

[Anen]

since many players playing lands like to play artefact with blue. i created a lands deck with artifact but no blues---only red and green.

//Lands
2 Dark Depths
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Buried Ruin-----------------------some say its no good. it take artifact from graveyard and put into your hand--seem good to me. academy ruins put the artifact to the top of library.
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Forest
2 Taiga
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland

//Spells
3 Crop Rotation
1 Zuran Orb---------------this or ensnaring bridge or winter orb
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
3 Life from the Loam
2 Engineered Explosives-------feel like changing to Nevinyrral's Disk or oblivion stone. EE require colours and i only have R&G. with exploration and mana bond i should be able to get it out fast.
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
2 Punishing Fire

//Sideboard
SB: 3 defense grid
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Primeval Titan
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Dark Depths

Did I just read Winter Orb? You can't be serious xD

[amalek0]

so, did anyone on the source play lands @ dallas?

[movingtonewao]

gosh where can i get that sweet tabernacle playmat...

[Sparkii]

gosh where can i get that sweet tabernacle playmat...

It was custom made. :(

I want one too.

[Sonofmogh]

Milwaukee Legacy Open Tournament Report

Hey, I recently top 16'd with Lands at SCG Milwaukee on April 6th, I thought I'd take time out of my ridiculously busy schedule to give you guys a tournament report, cuz why not? That's what Lands players do for eachother.

So the decklist can be found here (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=65903) but I'll post it anyways:

LANDS (real lands, not the poser glass-cannon combo version)
1 Forest
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
1 Taiga
3 Thespian's Stage
3 Tolaria West
3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
1 Zuran Orb
4 Exploration
3 Crop Rotation
3 Intuition
3 Punishing Fire
4 Life from the Loam

Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Krosan Grip

The credit for the decklist goes to my good friend Tom McLeod who made top 8 at a previous SCG Open a while back.

Alright, let's get this report underway:

Round 1: Some-random-scrub.dec
G1: I assembled Depths-Stage by turn 5 and had no idea what he was even playing, all I saw was like Creeping Tar Pit and Drowned Catacomb and he played literally no spells.
G2: He took a one-lander and had to discard a Pacifism which left me utterly befuddled, but I killed him quickly and turned in my match slip with 30+ min to spare.
1-0

Round 2: Pox
G1: I see basic swamps and Mishra's Factories. I smile. "Hymn to Tourach you." Discards Tolaria West, Maze of Ith. "Cast Life from the Loam." Pox is a great matchup, they try to cut you off cards and lands when you can cast a spell and get them all back. They do nothing that you care about and have no interaction with Dark Depths. Easy Win.
G2: He brings in Leyline of the Void, but luckily I don't care. I have Dark Depths in hand. I cast Intuition for 3x Thespian's Stage and win game 2.
2-0

Round 3: ANT
G1: Game 1 the ideal plan is to go for the kill ASAP, but I couldn't make that happen soon enough. I try to cut him off mana as much as I can with Rishadan Port, but he Ad Nauseums and kills me. The funny thing was that he bricked super hard too. revealing Past in Flames and Tendrils of Agony forced him to go down to 1 life with Ad Nauseum to find what he needed, had I saved the mana from Rishadan Port I would have had Punishing Fire in hand to take game 1, but I still made the correct play, you can never count on them bricking that hard.
G2: Sideboard in 4 Chalice and 4 Sphere taking out 1 Chasm, 1 Tabernacle, 3 Maze of Ith, 1 Karakas, 1 Engineered Explosives, and 1 Punishing Fire (the only things that matter are Crop Rotations for Bojuka Bog, and your sideboard cards, even Orb is too slow usually, but you still leave it in, and you leave in at least 1 Punishing Fire for Dark Confidant. ) He tries to storm and I cast Crop Rotation for Bog in response to his Cabal Ritual, cutting him off the mana he needed to make his math work and forcing him to end the run (netrunner fans? anyone?). I then found Sphere of Resistance and played it. He Ad Nauseum'd trying to stack his hand and find bounce (which he did) and passed after discarding down, keeping the Chain of Vapor in hand for the following turn. My next draw was Chalice of the Void which I cast for x=1 seeing how he was tapped out. He sighed and when I got Dark Depths he scooped and when went to a third game.
G3: My deck loved me. I drew an opener with multiple lock pieces. He Thoughtseized away a Sphere and seeing my Chalice still in hand he played out an LED and a Lotus Petal. I played Mox Diamond and a land, cast Chalice on 0 (which may have been a misplay, but casting it on 0 is SO GOOD against storm, it's usually better than 1) and cast the Sphere of Resistance I just drew making my opponent cringe. I developed my manabase and played another Sphere in the next couple turns and then dredged LFTL and flipped Dark Depths, Thespian Stage, Tropical Island into the bin. That was game.
3-0

Round 4: Death and Taxes
G1: Can I just say that I love how DnT is a seeing a lot of play now? It can't beat Lands, it's so unfair. They play land disruption, but poorly compared to Lands so they only set themselves back and open themselves up for counter land-destruction by playing things like Rishadan Port and Karakas, and they play a field of duders that put up so little of a clock that I actually sideboard out Glacial Chasm and they all die to Punishing Fire. Easy win.
G2: Sideboard In: 3 Abrupt Decay, 1 Engineered Explosives/ Out: Bog, Chasm, Orb, 1 Crop Rotation. They bring in Rest in Peace and that's basically it, Abrupt Decay and EE counter Rest in Peace and you've still got a great match up. Easy win. ALSO, I know people know this, but some people don't... if your opponent plays RIP say "okay" if they don't announce the exile trigger or pick up their own graveyard before they move to the next thing then the trigger has been missed and the cards you have in your yard stay there.
4-0

Round 5: Merfolk
G1: Hadn't played against Merfolk in a while, but I knew moreorless what to do. I kept him off mana with Ports and assembled the depths combo. I punted game 1 however and my opponent may also have cheated, but I know it wasn't intentional if it indeed happened. I was faced with an Aether Vial on 2 and had assembled the combo and decided to pop it on my end step to play around Wasteland. I have a Karakas untapped so I figure I'm safe. I pass the turn with Marit Lage in play, he casts Phantasmal Image targeting the token. I stupidly let him pass the turn back to me when I should have immediately bounced it (thus letting my Karakas untap again). I target Phantasmal Image with Karakas in the begin combat phase, swing with Marit Lage and he Aethered in a Phantasmal Image and blocked then swung back and killed me on the next turn. NOW, my play was stupid, but the question I am unsure about is this: Did he forget the sacrifice trigger of Phantasmal Image thus putting it back into his hand and then aethering it in again? Or did he have a second Phantasmal Image in hand? I still do not know, but I think I'll sleep easy either way.
G2: I sided incorrectly. I should have brought in Ensnaring Bridge, but did not. I brought in E.E. for a Bog, and 3 Abrupt Decays for a couple Crop Rotations and an Intuition. Regardless of my crappy sideboarding, I won handily. I played around Phantasmal Image by waiting and casting Intuition for 3 Abrupt Decay then Decaying the Vial he had then I simply recurred the combo with Loam and Explorations as many times as needed to get through his Submerges xD
G3: Played much like game 2, holding him off with Maze, assembling the combo fast with Exploration and Loam and going off multiple times through Submerge to take the victory.
5-0

Round 6: Deadguy Ale (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=65918)
G1: I drew worse than any other game in the tournament. I drew nothing but lands for about 10 turns while he beat me down with spirit tokens and Stoneforge Mystics While I used the 4 Maze of Iths (including two Stage's copying Maze) I had to keep his Batterskull, Dark Confidant and Tidehollow Sculler at bay. I simply drew nothing. Happens.
G2: I sided in Abrupt Decay and EE for Bog (yeah getting rid of Lingering Souls is nice, but it's not the key to winning) Karakas, and a couple Intuition. I kept him mana-less with Wasteland and Port and went for the combo, had my token plowed went to 40 life, had Loam Surgical Extraction'd preventing me from getting Depths back and had to resort to Punishing Fire, the rest of the game was him unable to draw his way out from under my manalock while I counted him down 1 life at a time.
G3: I wasn't able to pull it out from underneath Deathrite Shaman and the rest of his dudes. I can't remember much other than it was my first lost and I was a bit bummed.
5-1

Round 7: Death and Taxes
G1: x'D God, I'm liking my matchups this tournament. Punishing Fire, Engineered Explosives, recurring Dark Depths at 50 life from StP... gg
G2: He got me down to 1 life and I stabilized and E.E.d his board. DnT Bye.
6-1

Round 8: Manaless Dredge (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=65891)
G1: I won the die roll and took the play. He revealed that he was Manaless Dfredge on his first turn and I was unable to get Glacial Chasm and/or Tabernacle, the ONLY two cards that matter in the matchup. He Balustrade Spy'd himself and killed me with Hateflayer
G2: My inexperience playing against the deck shows very noticably. I sided miserably. I took out Intuitions, Karakas, and a Ghost Quarter, added E.E. and 4x Sphere of Resistance. I NEVER should have taken out intuition in that match-up. They cannot interact with you whatsoever and getting Glacial Chasm and Loam is gg. Sphere stops them from casting any spells but they still beat you down with Ichorids and Nether Spirits and 2/2's and Sphere slows down the Intuitions that you should be leaving in xD... ALSO I took the play >.> Don't take the play, you're enabling them and giving up a free card. Terrible punts, but lessons learned. Anyway, I played turn 1 Sphere of Resistance putting him on the dredge and beat me down plan. I played Exploration and found Glacial Chasm and despite horribly misplaying with it by putting myself down to 2 life and then sac'ing and recurring it every turn rather than copying it in the upkeep with Thespian Stage which would have allowed me to continue making land drops, I found Bojuka Bog and started playing Bog + Chasm every turn which brought about the concession.
G3: He takes the draw (what a surprise). I play another Sphere of Resistance but find that his forces still grow and beat hard and fast. I find nothing to get Chasm and die to combat damage.
6-2 :c

Round 9: BUG Delver
G1: I was out of top 8 contention, playing for possible top 16 which I ended up making. BUG Delver is pretty straightforward. They have Deathrite Shaman, you have Punishing Fire and E.E. They have no basic lands, you have Wasteland Exploration and Life from the Loam. I got rid of his DRS blew up his lands and Crop Rotation'd for Tabernacle to wipe his board. gg
G2: I brought in Decays as more answers to DRS. I got my loam eaten by DRS, I got killed with Goyfs and Legacy's new overpowered Grim Lavamancer c;
G3: I wasted him, saw that he didn't make another land drop and made a gutsy Crop Rotation for a second wasteland to cut him completely off mana while I slowly built my board. Life From The Loam ends the game in that situation.
7-2

All in all it was a good tournament. I'm happy with how I played, I thought I played very tight outside of a couple misplays that I highlighted. I got very good matchups for most of the day, so that helps, but honestly I love this decklist, I wouldn't change a card. It's been evolving over the past few years and shifting with the meta and I think this is the best iteration I've played to date. Having the 3 Stages and 3 Crop Rotations make Intuition that much better and I think the meta is soft to this deck right now, and the arrival of poser combo lands (c; take a joke, please) makes people sideboard incorrectly and forget how to play against you. My friend Tom played the exact same 75 at the tournament and top 32'd playing against much harder matchups, so that should give you some clue as to its viability. Give it a try if you like! Thanks for reading.

[Anen]

Nice read :)

[jhhdk]

Nice report. Not looking start another flamefest, but I would never do this.


ALSO, I know people know this, but some people don't... if your opponent plays RIP say "okay" if they don't announce the exile trigger or pick up their own graveyard before they move to the next thing then the trigger has been missed and the cards you have in your yard stay there.

I'd just exile my library and hope for the best. There is a fine line between babysitting opponent letting him know if he misses a trigger (which I suspect was motivation for rules change that absolved you from responsibility for maintaining game state) and deliberately misinterpreting opponents actions in order to gain an advantage.

[Sonofmogh]

Nice report. Not looking start another flamefest, but I would never do this.



I'd just exile my library and hope for the best. There is a fine line between babysitting opponent letting him know if he misses a trigger (which I suspect was motivation for rules change that absolved you from responsibility for maintaining game state) and deliberately misinterpreting opponents actions in order to gain an advantage.

No flamefest needed :)

It's a matter of opinion. I'd never do it at a lower REL, but if I'm at a competitive tournament like an open series event, I expect my opponent to resolve their triggers. It's an especially easy call if they already have a clearly delineated exile and graveyard pile and they fail to move one to the other; if they have a yard only and they do nothing it's a tougher decision, but according to the rules it is a trigger and it can be missed. I would not fault anyone for just assuming the trigger resolves and saving any uncomfortable moments with their opponent. That's just my thoughts, others are free to disagree; I can see both sides.

[Anen]

We managed to play in the same 24 people tournament with Snorlax. We live in a small world ^^
Nothing too fancy for me. I was playing a Intuition list with 1/1 DD/Stage split and 0 crop rotation. I went 2-2-1.
2-1 vs. Team America.
0-2 vs. Dredge. I know shame on me, but I kept a slow hand G1 and G2 he went T1 Coliseum > LED > Breakthough > Crack LED for 4 dredgers > Flashback Looting. And I missplayed by not playing my Tabernacle T1 instead of a fucking forest so I was a land drop short all game..
1-1 vs. UWr Miracle. I won a long G1 where Marit got killed by StP, Venser, Terminus like 5 times before finally connecting and had to fight through a counterbalance-lock (I EE for 7 at some point xD) and a Jace. G2: he forced my T3 Thalia, played Blood Moon on his T3 and RiP on his T4. G3: I was able to make Marit on the turn 5 of extra turns, but didn't get a chance to attack with it.
2-0 vs. UWR Delver.
0-2 vs. BUG Control with Standstill. I lost G1 to a Wasteland lock from his single loam (after dropping my Bog on T2 because I needed mana and though he would not play with any graveyard shenanigans, I was wrong..), and not being able to find one of my four Loams, nor a blue source to cast my Intuition. And I lost G2 to a Wasteland lock after having my Loams and Wastelands extracted. No comment on this round please xD.


Bref, I just wanted to brainstorm some ideas next.
In an ideal world, I could Intuition for Exploration, Loam and a land, and my opponent would give me the Exploration. Let's look at cards that can try to achieve this goal.
Impulse: Bad, doesn't fill your graveyard.
Mulch : Bad, only get lands in your hand.
Grisly Salvage: Bad, doesn't get exploration.
Commune with the Gods: Ok, get Exploration and fill your GY with potentially a Loam.
Forbidden Alchemy: Ok, dig for 4 instead of 5 with Commune and costs 1 more but the card is assured.

I've kept Commune with the Gods out of the above list because i think this is the one with most potential. What about an heavy enchantment list with a creature sideboard like:

4 Commune with the Gods
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Exploration
2 Sylvan Library
1 Nether Void

Recycle? I've decked myself more than a few times with it xD
Moat?
The Abyss?
Humility/Mishra's Factory/Creeping Tar Pit?

//SB
4 Dark Confidant
3 Thalia
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Primeval Titan
3 Krosan Grip

What do you think of it? Negative feedback also welcomed ^^

[snorlaxcom]

Nice meeting a Lands comrade! I went 3-2 and missed any placing because of r1 loss on my breakers. Went 1-2 vs miracles and beat shardless and canadian thresh.

^Going to try the forbidden alchemy. On paper you can setup loams, pfire, and still get an exploration(or sb hate). Flashback is relevant too since we can reasonably get that much mana and it turns into a free card when dredged up. Keeping the chosen card hidden is a bonus to keep the opp thinking.

Commune is interesting, but only needed to get exploration and mayyyybe a dude. Etutor does this already in addition to artifacts. It may not be quite on color, but etutor does a better job setting up t2 disruption in G2/3. Commune has a sizeable chance of seeing no sb cards so I'd rather put a hate piece in the sb like a sphere or chalice that can easily be tutored up.

[Phelix]

It was custom made. :(

I want one too.


Pic please!


-Lands afficionado

[Phelix]

@ son of mogh - you run roughly 22 lands that dont produce relevant mana (the turn they cip).

this i feel, is tough on openers?

[snorlaxcom]

18 green sources seems fine with Mox. I have the same manabase minus a fetch and have had no issues with mana.

[Sonofmogh]

@ son of mogh - you run roughly 22 lands that dont produce relevant mana (the turn they cip).

this i feel, is tough on openers?

Serious reply: I haven't had any noticeable troubles. Sure, every once and a while you'll have to throw something back for not having green, but it's not something that's super common. Do your own testing, but between Tom and I we've tested the deck quite a bit and the win % is extremely high in a well-developed meta.

Feel free to experiment with changes, but I'll tell you that we both LOVE this 75. It's going to be a tear-jerker to change anything, but we'll see where the meta goes.

Humorous reply: If the mana is a concern you could try playing that gamble combo-version that runs 11 relevant lands + mox. That deck can't get colored mana to save its life. :3

[Sparkii]

Pic please!


-Lands afficionado

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X5ShczaAqk

I know, Felix. I'm Zack. We've chat on facebook a bit. ;)

[sarahiscute]

hi,

i have been reading this thread for a while now, it seem that many ppl here hate the RG combo lands. i dun know why.

the RG combo lands went 1st place by kurt spessis. and the artifact lands til now never made it to first place in any major tournament.

some say the RG combo lands is a copy or a lesser version of the "real" lands.

the original land deck from long ago (2006) i found it here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/legacy-archives/182330-43land-dec?page=2

but, why the hate for RG combo lands?

[Tyrio]

hi,

i have been reading this thread for a while now, it seem that many ppl here hate the RG combo lands. i dun know why.

the RG combo lands went 1st place by kurt spessis. and the artifact lands til now never made it to first place in any major tournament.

some say the RG combo lands is a copy or a lesser version of the "real" lands.

the original land deck from long ago (2006) i found it here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/legacy-archives/182330-43land-dec?page=2

but, why the hate for RG combo lands?

I wouldn't say there's any hate for that particular build; it's fast, powerful and has a strong mana denial/creature kill plan. It's also not nearly as reliant on the graveyard compared to Intuition lists thanks to multiple Depths, Crop Rotations and to some extent Gamble. It's game 1 combo matchup is much, much better than 4C Lands.

I personally don't like it too much because it's much more linear and lacks the versatility of the 4C list. RG wins with Marit Lage and occasionally PFire. It has no maindeck answers to things like Counterbalance, Mongoose, TNN, EBridge, etc. outside of its Glacial Chasm. 4C has its own EBridge for defense, as well as recurring EE to stop pretty much every permanent in Legacy (and occasionally serving as its own wincon). RG I feel is also somewhat more draw dependent; its dredges are weaker because you don't want to mill your tutors and there's no Tolaria West to recur.

In other news, I'm pretty excited to test out Dack Fayden in 4C. He's probably super durdly and doesn't accomplish much though lol. If only Kiora wasn't 4 mana and/or 2 loyalty. I remember someone trying out a couple of Mind Sculptors a while back. How did that go?

[sarahiscute]

hi tyrio,

thank you for your clear explanation. i understand the difference between these 2 decks now.

will try it out.

[Anen]

I wouldn't say there's any hate for that particular build; it's fast, powerful and has a strong mana denial/creature kill plan. It's also not nearly as reliant on the graveyard compared to Intuition lists thanks to multiple Depths, Crop Rotations and to some extent Gamble. It's game 1 combo matchup is much, much better than 4C Lands.

I personally don't like it too much because it's much more linear and lacks the versatility of the 4C list. RG wins with Marit Lage and occasionally PFire. It has no maindeck answers to things like Counterbalance, Mongoose, TNN, EBridge, etc. outside of its Glacial Chasm. 4C has its own EBridge for defense, as well as recurring EE to stop pretty much every permanent in Legacy (and occasionally serving as its own wincon). RG I feel is also somewhat more draw dependent; its dredges are weaker because you don't want to mill your tutors and there's no Tolaria West to recur.

In other news, I'm pretty excited to test out Dack Fayden in 4C. He's probably super durdly and doesn't accomplish much though lol. If only Kiora wasn't 4 mana and/or 2 loyalty. I remember someone trying out a couple of Mind Sculptors a while back. How did that go?

Tyrio, I completely agree with your vision of 4-C Intuition vs. RG Lands.

About PWs and Dack Fayden, well planeswalkers are planeswalkers.. You can't protect them as efficiently as your life total. I mean, I don't care being hit by a 4/5 Tarmogoyf for 2-3 turns before stabilizing. Planeswalkers require immediate solutions if you want them to stay alive. Moreover dredging them plainly sucks, like Exploration.
Dak Fayden +1 is good for finding cards and filling your graveyard you can't deny that. But will you use the ability more that twice before Dak is destroyed? Counterspells, Burn, Creatures, Decay, it dies to a lot of things because it doesn't protect itself.. If you want to play this just for the looting, you might want to consider Faithless Looting instead.
-2 is irrelevant. -6 is pretty much irrelevant too, you can't take control of opposing Jaces because your P-Fire targets the player and then is redirected to Jace. So what's left? Opposing Tarmogoyf and germ tokens? You can still imagine this scenario where your bridge sticks for more than 2 turns, or where you have 3 Maze + the P-Fire engine going but else, how do you plan to hit 6 counters vs. creatures decks?

[tewatate]

Humorous reply: If the mana is a concern you could try playing that gamble combo-version that runs 11 relevant lands + mox. That deck can't get colored mana to save its life. :3

Although it's probably ment in a humorous way, its not constructive to be denigrating about the RG version. On the contrary, it's great that a landsdeck variant does so well (it pops up quite some times on mtgtop8). It's a young deck, and will probably evolve a lot, and many changes are probably due to come.

Congratulations on your top 16, thats a great result!

[HammerAndSickled]

I remember someone trying out a couple of Mind Sculptors a while back. How did that go?
That was probably me; I've been playing 3 JtMS in Lands for over a year, playing 4C E-Tutor Intuition lands with no Punishing Fires. I have two SCG top32s with it and have done passably a slew of local events. Most recently I went 4-4 or 5-4 in Charlotte last month and came in 9th at a big monthly Legacy event locally because I can't do math abd calculate tiebreakers. I absolutely love it, the synergies with the mana denial/Tabernacle and the bounce/fate seal modes are the primary motivators, but there's so much overlap that I can't believe I'm the only one doing it. He can be turn-2'd with Mox Diamond or Exploration, which is so broken you feel like you're playing Vintage. You can Brainstorm to dig for Exploration or postboard combo hate or turbo-dredge or draw the card you Academy Ruins-d this turn, you can protect him with Maze/Bridge, he gives additional outs to cheated in fatties, delays DRS activations sometimes, and acts as a reliable secondary win condition. Pretty much against DRS decks and like small critter Tribal I'd rather have PFires, but in every other matchup Jace is fucking awesome. I've written up a couple tournament reports but I haven't posted them here because they were mostly for events I didn't do well at and I wrote the reports to reflect on that, but if there's more interest in the Jace build I can share my experiences.

[Sonofmogh]

hi,

i have been reading this thread for a while now, it seem that many ppl here hate the RG combo lands. i dun know why.

the RG combo lands went 1st place by kurt spessis. and the artifact lands til now never made it to first place in any major tournament.

some say the RG combo lands is a copy or a lesser version of the "real" lands.

the original land deck from long ago (2006) i found it here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/legacy-archives/182330-43land-dec?page=2

but, why the hate for RG combo lands?

I wouldn't say there's "hate" for it. I just don't see the point and I don't think it's that great. It's fine that people want to play it, and if it does well then that shuts me up, but it runs 11 relevant lands + mox so it's super vulnerable to wasteland and mana screw. It's faster, but wouldn't you rather just play storm if you're going that route? I guess it does have a mana-denial plan and it does have some creature removal, so it's different.

Idk, I mostly make fun of it as a joke, people can play whatever decks they want. As long as they're not playing show and tell c;


As for the decklist, I think the next change is going to be cutting Chalice of the Void down to 1 or 2 copies in the sideboard. RUG Delver is falling out of the meta a bit and it's not as good as it used to be. I think Phyrexian Revoker to name DRS is probably going to be a better choice for the near future, maybe a third Grip, but I haven't decided. Tom played with Revoker tonight and went 4-0.

[Rampart]

I wouldn't say there's "hate" for it. I just don't see the point and I don't think it's that great. It's fine that people want to play it, and if it does well then that shuts me up, but it runs 11 relevant lands + mox so it's super vulnerable to wasteland and mana screw. It's faster, but wouldn't you rather just play storm if you're going that route? I guess it does have a mana-denial plan and it does have some creature removal, so it's different.

Idk, I mostly make fun of it as a joke, people can play whatever decks they want. As long as they're not playing show and tell c;


As for the decklist, I think the next change is going to be cutting Chalice of the Void down to 1 or 2 copies in the sideboard. RUG Delver is falling out of the meta a bit and it's not as good as it used to be. I think Phyrexian Revoker to name DRS is probably going to be a better choice for the near future, maybe a third Grip, but I haven't decided. Tom played with Revoker tonight and went 4-0.

I not sure where are you going with your reply. The last Lands deck that won an SCG event was R/G Lands and there has been about a 50/50 distribution between R/G and 4c when it comes to high finishes. I also don't understand what you mean by relevant lands, are you talking about green mana producing lands? there are 14 plus Mox which is one more higher then your top 16 list? or just mana producing lands because that's about even too?

R/G has pretty much the same mana denial package as 4c and a similar creature suppression package as 4c with the biggest difference being the two EE that are in the 4c List becomes an additional Maze and Punishing Fire in the R/G Build. Some 4c lists run E.Bridge or O.Stone but that's more of an exception then a rule.

The real difference between the two decks is that one is a proactive (R/G) and liner and one is reactive (4c) and flexible. Deck option thus becomes a personal choice.


I see RUG delver picking up steam, but I think that's a pretty easy matchup in general. I would be more afraid of the elves matchup without the COTV. Don't forget that Revoker is a house against a lot decks, its got a lot of applications against combo, Miracles and Jund. its pretty flexible.

[tewatate]

I wouldn't say there's "hate" for it. I just don't see the point and I don't think it's that great. It's fine that people want to play it, and if it does well then that shuts me up, but it runs 11 relevant lands + mox so it's super vulnerable to wasteland and mana screw. It's faster, but wouldn't you rather just play storm if you're going that route? I guess it does have a mana-denial plan and it does have some creature removal, so it's different.


The fastness of the RG-version isn't limited to the combo alone. Gamble and croprotation get a quick wastelock of Pfire/Grove online as well, and often that's a better strategy than just go for Stage/Depths, so I would definitely not label this deck as all-in combo.

If there's something I miss in this version, it's definitely Engineered Explosives and Academy Ruins (and I wonder if it couldn't be integrated as well).

[Tyrio]

The fastness of the RG-version isn't limited to the combo alone. Gamble and croprotation get a quick wastelock of Pfire/Grove online as well, and often that's a better strategy than just go for Stage/Depths, so I would definitely not label this deck as all-in combo.

If there's something I miss in this version, it's definitely Engineered Explosives and Academy Ruins (and I wonder if it couldn't be integrated as well).

Jamming a blue source, Academy Ruins and EE into RG was discussed a few pages back. Without Tolaria West or Intuition it just takes too long to assemble the package. You'd have to Gamble for EE and hope to not discard it or dredge it away. Fortunately PFire handles 90% of Legacy's creature base and the creatures that are immune to punishment are vulnerable to Wastelocks.

[snurly]

Been playing the R/G version for a bit now, and I find it quite fun. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to read through every page of this thread, so hopefully this hasn't been asked before, but is there any reason any version of Lands doesn't play Living Wish?

[tewatate]

Jamming a blue source, Academy Ruins and EE into RG was discussed a few pages back. Without Tolaria West or Intuition it just takes too long to assemble the package. You'd have to Gamble for EE and hope to not discard it or dredge it away. Fortunately PFire handles 90% of Legacy's creature base and the creatures that are immune to punishment are vulnerable to Wastelocks.

I know, I've read it, but I don't think the three pieces are useless on their own. EE on its own works great when drawn, and a tropical Island is at least a fourth fetchable forest. Gamble gets Pfire, but its nice to have an EE-option for emergency cornercases. I'm also testing with one sylvan library main and one in the side, which can help me find what I need.
It might be too slow and take up too many slots, but I really want to test this in the next tournament.

[snurly]

One other question to the other R/G Lands players. What alternate win con would you look for if all your depths were exiled? I know grove + p.fire is one, but it's so slow and relies on graveyard, which might not exist due to a RiP (which might be how the depths were exiled also). Thanks.

[Anen]

Been playing the R/G version for a bit now, and I find it quite fun. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to read through every page of this thread, so hopefully this hasn't been asked before, but is there any reason any version of Lands doesn't play Living Wish?

"Farmville" does.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gppar14/day2#7

[amalek0]

One other question to the other R/G Lands players. What alternate win con would you look for if all your depths were exiled? I know grove + p.fire is one, but it's so slow and relies on graveyard, which might not exist due to a RiP (which might be how the depths were exiled also). Thanks.

Personally, I play 4c lands and earlier this evening at a casual legacy event (7 players, not sanctioned, just a get-together) and I won through surgical on depths, pfire, and EE. Won that game by mazing three goyfs, two delvers and a tombstalker (thespian's stage OP) and recurring mox diamond to deck the guy. I've always loved lands because it's probably the single deck in legacy with the MOST inevitability of anything. I've won games by concession that I otherwise couldn't have won via-ghost-quartering all of my opponents mana sources. I imagine in RG lands, if you have quarters then quartering out all of your opponents lands to draw a concession is your best out if they've taken all your other wincons. If the graveyard is a no-go, Don't you guys splash blue for creeping tarpit or a raging ravine or some other man-land? If not, then the list really shouldn't be called lands at all.

[tewatate]

Personally, I play 4c lands and earlier this evening at a casual legacy event (7 players, not sanctioned, just a get-together) and I won through surgical on depths, pfire, and EE. Won that game by mazing three goyfs, two delvers and a tombstalker (thespian's stage OP) and recurring mox diamond to deck the guy. I've always loved lands because it's probably the single deck in legacy with the MOST inevitability of anything. I've won games by concession that I otherwise couldn't have won via-ghost-quartering all of my opponents mana sources. I imagine in RG lands, if you have quarters then quartering out all of your opponents lands to draw a concession is your best out if they've taken all your other wincons. If the graveyard is a no-go, Don't you guys splash blue for creeping tarpit or a raging ravine or some other man-land? If not, then the list really shouldn't be called lands at all.

Against extraction I try to avoid having a combopiece going to the graveyard, by holding on to it, or having one in play with a crop rotation in hand to protect it from wasteland. Most decks running extraction are non-white and don't have StP, so if you can make the token they usually can't deal with it (apart from a sideboarded submerge).
When playing against extraction and a comboland is wastelanded, you can croprotate for another copy. Just don't sack the targeted comboland to croprotation (which would normally be a good play) but another land, because in response they can extract the land sacced to croprotation. Dredging is safer too with croprotation in hand. If DD or Stage is dredged, and your opponent plays extraction, you can snatch one vital copy out of the library into play in response.

I recently did loose a game because both DD and Pfire were extracted. But it was my own, stupid fault, because I had my BUG opponent totally wastelocked with Tabernacle in play, and took the chances of gambling for something. I wrongly assumed he did not have extraction in hand, because he didn't extract loam or wasteland, which would have broken his lock. I randomly discarted DD, and he extracted it. So for this scenario my own judgement is to blame, and I generally think you can protect your combopieces from extraction.

But without DD and Pfire you can't win anymore. That's the downside of this version, but ofcourse having the chance of comboing fast and regular is a considerable upside.

[Resist_Temptation]

Hello sourcers, I played in SCG Detroit over Easter weekend, and Lands was my weapon of choice.

For reference I played this list.
3 Crop Rotation
4 Life from the Loam
4 Exploration
3 Intuition
3 Punishing Fire
4 Mox Diamond
1 Zuran Orb
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
3 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Academy Ruins
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
3 Tolaria West
My sideboard was
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Krosan Grip
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Chalice of the Void


And looking at my matchups in hindsight, I should have had a much easier time than I did, but I think a bit of it had to do with my unfamiliarity with playing against the junk maverick style decks alongside the actual miracles matchup.
My rounds went as follows:
Rd 1 - Junk 1-0
1-0
Rd 2 - Bug Delver 1-2
1-1
Rd 3 - Burn 2-1
2-1
Rd 4 - Dredge 2-0
3-1
Rd 5 - Miracles 0-2
3-2
Rd 6 - Esper Blade 2-0
4-2
Rd 7 - Affinity 2-0
5-2
Rd 8 - Elves id
5-2-1

Props
-Being a part of the imaginary team Tabernacle for a day =P
-Beating Affinity on the draw when his first turn puts 7 permanents in play...
-Beating Burn in 4 turns game 1 and 3 turns game 3.
-Not playing against any combo decks.

Slops
-Getting crushed by miracles without finding any actual way to interact with him.
-Ichorid casting Narcomoebias as well as golgari thugs. #nonowasteland

Rd 1 was very uneventful. My opponent's all day were very nice and this round was no different. He was unfamiliar with my deck like many of the people that I played today. Game 1 went a very long time and I just didn't finish the game until he scooped with 15 minutes left. Game 2 revolved around me finding three ports and a tabernacle, and him having infinite lands to find. He cast an elspeth through my triple ports. This game ended with me sacc’ing all of my lands to Zuran Orb and surviving at 2 life at the end of turns.

Rd 2 my opponent played a total of 3 delvers all of which flipped, and a Tarmogoyf. He won this game pretty handily. Game 2 I was able to lock the game up with a end of turn crop rotation into Marit Lage. Game 3 I had the set up for an end of turn crop rotation into Marit Lage, but he plays thoughtseize the turn before I could set up the kill as I needed to crop rotation as well as keep the thespian stage on glacial chasm until after his attack step.

Rd 3 was an interesting one. Turn 1 Bolt go. I was in for a treat. My hand was fairly slow, but had some good stuff. Start with a turn 1 loam on the thespian stage that I discard to mox diamond. The next turn I draw an exploration. And at this point when he untaps he has 1 card in hand and I am at 4 life. I do not dredge and I draw into crop rotation and I let him untap and am planning to just crop rotation into a glacial chasm if he does anything. He just passes back and his hand has to have either flameblast or double burn spell so I decide to go for it, because he should have cast it by now if he had it… he did not.
Game 2 he blows me out of the water with sulfuric vortex. Apparently that does more than just deal 2 damage at every upkeep =D
Game 3 I am on the play with the stone cold nuts. Exploration into Thespian’s stage. Next turn port and a tropical island. End of turn I crop rotation into Marit Lage and end the game. He did get me down to less than ten life this game.

Rd 4 I got to meet the boogeyman. Ichorids were a plenty. He had the play and my hand had access to a turn 2 bog, which was pretty good, if his game plan was not to just cast Narcomoebias on 2. After the third hit play I needed to find a way to deal with them. I bogged 3 bridges and then just had to find explosives. I was not able to do that, but I did find 2 mazes and a stage.
Game 2 he starts with Leyline in play and I just casually end of turn 3 make Marit Lage and that is all she wrote.

Rd 5 Playing against Dan Musser. He was a very nice guy and I wish our games were a little bit more exciting. I was not very tested in this matchup, and it definitely showed. I believe that my sideboarding was probably wrong, but you live and learn. The games were very uneventful as he just kept playing basics, and eventually played counterbalance plus Jace and locked me out.
Game 2 he forced my turn 1 chalice at 1 and then it began to look like game 1. He did rest in peace, but I had the Explosives to kill it plus a counterbalance. If only he didn’t just replace them. I was not able to find my krosan grips, or even punishing fire to try and pressure Jace.

Rd 6 I was playing against EsperBlade, but I was almost positive that when I saw him play earlier in the day he was on the Esper Deathblade. So I made a very bold turn 1 exploration into ghost quarter your Underground Sea. He finds himself an Island. I make the same play next turn thinking he is a very greedy four-color player. He finds another island. Of course the next turn I am able to keep up port to protect myself from him getting too ahead on mana. I just decide to lock myself into the ghost quarter plan and find out he has 4 basics. Once he runs out of basics he has resolved a true name as well as a stoneforge. I find tabernacle and show him my double wasteland and we go to the next game. It is at this point I ask him what he played in Rd3, and he said he played against Deathblade.. Figured it out. Well my opening hand is again a great ghost quarter hand. I get a jump start on my mana while he plays out an Underground Sea. I ghost quarter it and he doesn’t search, which I find very unusual… Unless he had all his basics in his hand, but then he brainstormed in response to my next ghost quarter and then searches. I believe I figured it out. This game he resolves a Jace and tries to dig, but I play around Rest In Peace, and just continue the plan. Ghost quarter gets there.

Rd 7 was a lot of fun. I played on the play against affinity and I had an okay start. I had the Tabernacle as well as a Maze of ith in hand. I am able to make two mazes to take care of the two creatures he has in play. This game ends pretty fast as he attacks with his vault skirge and I do not maze it. End of turn he has no flyers and I make 20 power and finish him. Game 2 on the draw I am a bit worried. He plays 7 permanents and I do not have the E.E. I play grove and pass. The Next turn of course he plays cranial plating and equips. I crop rotation into maze. Then draw an abrupt decay. Find the exploration and begin to cycle through my deck. I find chasm and just have to find a win before he finds a Tezzeret… I have not seen one yet, but if he has it that is the only way he will win this game. Needless to say he does find it, and I am not able to find a punishing fire. My play involves setting up Zuran orb, alongside enough lands to keep the glacial chasm in play alongside enough mana to Thespian’s Stage the Dark Depths to end the game. He ultimates Tezz and I sac all but the required parts needed and go to 3 life. The next turn I attack and play a glacial chasm from my hand. The next turn I allow my chasm to die and attack him for lethal.

Rd 8. My opponent says that if we draw we will both make top 32, and I am bad at math and don’t usually do too many of these tournaments. I just have a bad feeling going into this matchup and my pride gets to me. I decide that only having two losses on the day is how I want to end my day, and we draw, but in hindsight this puts us into 33rd and 34th place. Whatever got 10 bucks profit for my day, and got to play some fun magic. I did play this last round after we turned in our slip and he hoofed me on turn 3. He was on elves. Games two and three I found tabernacle, plus removal and wastelands. I won our imaginary three games, but either way had a blast with the deck.

#teamtabernacle

[snurly]

I know, I've read it, but I don't think the three pieces are useless on their own. EE on its own works great when drawn, and a tropical Island is at least a fourth fetchable forest. Gamble gets Pfire, but its nice to have an EE-option for emergency cornercases. I'm also testing with one sylvan library main and one in the side, which can help me find what I need.
It might be too slow and take up too many slots, but I really want to test this in the next tournament.

I tried Sylvan's in my list, and found that in a 4 round tournament, I only used the extra draw once, and it was only to finish a turn quicker in a game I already had locked and won. I found my life total mattering too often to really make use of that feature any other time. I'm thinking of switching to Mirri's Guile. In combination with Loam dredge, it seems like you can get through a lot of cards quickly without accidentally dredging away the spell you need.

Also, as I don't run the blue version, I ran Choke as a 2 of in the sideboard and brought it in often. Quite a blowout when it stuck.

[tewatate]

Hello sourcers, I played in SCG Detroit over Easter weekend, and Lands was my weapon of choice.


Nice report, I always love reading them! And congrats for the results too!

Miracles is a hard matchup (at least how I experience it). Your sideboard has quite some goodies against it (chalice, abrupt decay, krosan Grip, Engineered Explosives), you probably sided them all? I would really love to hear tips and tricks how to play against Miracles, if anyone has positive experience against it.


I tried Sylvan's in my list, and found that in a 4 round tournament, I only used the extra draw once, and it was only to finish a turn quicker in a game I already had locked and won. I found my life total mattering too often to really make use of that feature any other time. I'm thinking of switching to Mirri's Guile. In combination with Loam dredge, it seems like you can get through a lot of cards quickly without accidentally dredging away the spell you need.

Also, as I don't run the blue version, I ran Choke as a 2 of in the sideboard and brought it in often. Quite a blowout when it stuck.

I like Sylvan Library because it helps against certain matchups. Swords to Plowshares + Rest in Peace is a problem because the token is dealt with and the combopieces are gone. So having an alternative drawengine/cardselection, fueled by plowed Marit Lages, is quite nice. It also keeps a Sejiri Steppe in the Library and a crop rotation closeby, if I would like to protect my own token. Also against combo the lifeloss doesn't really count, and drawing cards makes gamble much more reliable. And Library is a tool against Miracles as well.
Other noncombo decks without StP or RiP are in my opinion easier matchups, that need less sideboardoptions, so that's why I prefer Sylvan Library.

Choke is something that I will certainly try, thanks for the suggestion! I can imagine it works nice with rishadan port.

[amalek0]

I've found I've had a very solid matchup with miracles over the long-term, probably as high as a 70% match-win. First thing is that I'm on a 4c build with mainboard crucible, eex2, zuran orb. Second thing is that I still run a ghost-quarter. As such, My plan has pretty much always been to move to quarter and waste their mana base game one to prevent large entreats. I run a creeping tarpit as a jace-slayer MB as well. Because they're set up to be very counter-heavy game one, and don't have any relevant interaction short of a resolved jace + countertop lock at 2 and entreats, if you can disrupt their mana base early to prevent them from resolving jace or getting an entreat for more than 2 angels, you can hide behind bridges and grind out their mana base before going for a win-con. Post-board, I have a pithing needle for top, and then I usually either have access to intuition for urborg + raven's crime + loam to strip their hand early, or geist of st. win. Game-plan post-board is therefore to needle their tops, usually by k-gripping the counterbalance(s) first then slamming needle. Biggest priority postboard is probably to not let them have a Jace active without a response, because they don't have a way to win a long-game without him unless they manage to exile all of your punishing fires, your tarpit, and your DD/Stage's. It's by no means a free lunch of a matchup, but I've been playing lands all the way through since countertop/landstill was a thing, so I've got a good intuition for what the best line of play is for me in a given game.

The biggest thing with miracles players is that they're in general used to being reactive and controlling, and it takes a very experienced miracles player to recognize that in this matchup, they're the beatdown since lands (with ghost quarter) has the ability to restrict their mana base much harder over the long term than any delver, D&T, or pox deck. I can't count the games I've stolen off of miracles players who chose the control role and then lost to a quarters-lock while they scrambled to find a win-con while they still had lands available.

[Resist_Temptation]

I've found I've had a very solid matchup with miracles over the long-term, probably as high as a 70% match-win.

I totally agree and do no usually have an issue with this matchup. I just happened to get an opponent who knew the matchup and my draws did not end up working out. The deck was a lot of fun to play, and my match ups were very favorable for me.

[Sonofmogh]

Hello sourcers, I played in SCG Detroit over Easter weekend, and Lands was my weapon of choice.

Good job, and nice list :wink: Congrats on the almost top 32!

Tom and I are thinking the meta has made Ghost Quarter pretty lackluster. Most decks tend to run either no basics or a ton of them, so we're thinking of replacing it... we were thinking either a 4th Punishing Fire, or a Sensei's Divining Top. I'm open to more suggestions though. Cabal Pit? PFire would probably just be better. I don't like Steppe, there's never a need for it if you play correctly. What else?

[Rampart]

Good job, and nice list :wink: Congrats on the almost top 32!

Tom and I are thinking the meta has made Ghost Quarter pretty lackluster. Most decks tend to run either no basics or a ton of them, so we're thinking of replacing it... we were thinking either a 4th Punishing Fire, or a Sensei's Divining Top. I'm open to more suggestions though. Cabal Pit? PFire would probably just be better. I don't like Steppe, there's never a need for it if you play correctly. What else?

What about Sylvan Library? I like it more then Top .

[Dat_Gentleman]

What about Sylvan Library? I like it more then Top .

I like Top because it allows you to dredge loam at instant speed. It protects you from a Surgical if need be.

[Dat_Gentleman]

Hey guys, I've been playing with 4C Lands for a few weeks. Is there a significant reason to play Zuran Orb in the main deck? I've never seen it play a significant role; I'm wondering if the slot would be more relevant with something else.

[Megadeus]

Hey guys, I've been playing with 4C Lands for a few weeks. Is there a significant reason to play Zuran Orb in the main deck? I've never seen it play a significant role; I'm wondering if the slot would be more relevant with something else.

Being able to have an out to an aggro/burn deck in G1 is very nice. Plus, sometimes you just need those few extra points of life to stabilize and get a lock of some sort going.

[Rampart]

Being able to have an out to an aggro/burn deck in G1 is very nice. Plus, sometimes you just need those few extra points of life to stabilize and get a lock of some sort going.

Its also an out to price of progress which is a real beating if you don't have a way to stop the damage


I like Top because it allows you to dredge loam at instant speed. It protects you from a Surgical if need be.

If you opponent is surgical extracting your LFTL while you have an active top out they deserve to get blown out. I find that most of my opponents don't even try to surgical the loam anymore for the fear of tranquil thicket. Most of the time they extract Stage, Wasteland, Port, Dark Depths, Maze etc. not the loam

[Anen]

If you opponent is surgical extracting your LFTL while you have an active top out they deserve to get blown out. I find that most of my opponents don't even try to surgical the loam anymore for the fear of tranquil thicket. Most of the time they extract Stage, Wasteland, Port, Dark Depths, Maze etc. not the loam

I can't agree more.
And this is why I won't cut Ghost Quarter too. You extracted my Wastelands? Ok, here is another one.

[Megadeus]

I can't agree more.
And this is why I won't cut Ghost Quarter too. You extracted my Wastelands? Ok, here is another one.

Good point, not in lands but that was actually a fairly common, and somewhat disastrous to me, play vs me when I was on 4 C loam. Having a 5th waste effect would have really helped.

[Rampart]

I can't agree more.
And this is why I won't cut Ghost Quarter too. You extracted my Wastelands? Ok, here is another one.

Can't agree with Library over Top? I wouldn't cut Ghost quarter from lands ever. I prefer the 5 wasteland

[Anen]

Can't agree with Library over Top?

Because I don't feel the need for some top deck manipulation. And until proven otherwise, I think both Library and Top are bad but for different reasons.

[amalek0]

Good point, not in lands but that was actually a fairly common, and somewhat disastrous to me, play vs me when I was on 4 C loam. Having a 5th waste effect would have really helped.

I don't understand why anyone would ever consider cutting the ghost-quarters. It may not be worth the slot in 19/20 games you play, but there is the very real inevitability of "if you don't do something, I'll make sure you NEVER do ANYTHING" that ghost-quarters brings. I have yet to find a magic deck that can win through a post-board trinisphere with no lands in a non-exile zone. More to the point, I have yet to see a deck other than ANT even attempt to win once all of their mana producing lands have been ghost quartered then bojuka bogged away. Without the threat of inevitably preventing your opponent from playing magic at all, what makes lands different from a bad version of agro-loam, or some bad A-B combo with crop rotation and life from the loam as a tutor engine?

[Tyrio]

I never particularly liked the Ghost Quarter. As a 5th Wasteland it's fine, but pretty marginal I feel. GQ's ability to kill all of an opponent's basics isn't worth the Crop Rotation/Bojuka Bog/Tranquil Thicket slot.

Without Crucible + Exploration it'll take a minimum of 6 dredges/land drops (recurring GQ every time + other stuff) to kill all of Miracles' or DnTs' basics. Dredging obviously means you're not drawing cards like Intuition or Exploration unless you opened with them and if you began the game with Intuition/Exploration you hardly need the Ghost Quarter to take control of the game. The only other decks with basics are maybe various Junk Variants? Deadguy? Maverick? They only have a handful of basics and virtually no outs to PFire/EE anyway. Against other decks with 1 or 2 basics Rishadan Port is enough. Against combo it's useless either way.

Against Miracles and DnT you probably don't even want to be spamming Ghost Quarter. They can't interact well with you game 1 so it's faster and safer to just go assemble Marit Lage/EE lock (especially since GQing them won't actually do anything the first 4 or so activations). Game 2 you can't afford to be dredging all the time because that leaves you open to their Rest in Peaces and you need to draw your Krosan Grips. I suppose hitting Miracles' 2 Plains has some merit to protect Marit (haha) Lage, but Rishadan Port also does that while not eating up your land drops/draw steps and providing them with free shuffles.

[amalek0]

I never particularly liked the Ghost Quarter. As a 5th Wasteland it's fine, but pretty marginal I feel. GQ's ability to kill all of an opponent's basics isn't worth the Crop Rotation/Bojuka Bog/Tranquil Thicket slot.

Without Crucible + Exploration it'll take a minimum of 6 dredges/land drops (recurring GQ every time + other stuff) to kill all of Miracles' or DnTs' basics. Dredging obviously means you're not drawing cards like Intuition or Exploration unless you opened with them and if you began the game with Intuition/Exploration you hardly need the Ghost Quarter to take control of the game. The only other decks with basics are maybe various Junk Variants? Deadguy? Maverick? They only have a handful of basics and virtually no outs to PFire/EE anyway. Against other decks with 1 or 2 basics Rishadan Port is enough. Against combo it's useless either way.

Against Miracles and DnT you probably don't even want to be spamming Ghost Quarter. They can't interact well with you game 1 so it's faster and safer to just go assemble Marit Lage/EE lock (especially since GQing them won't actually do anything the first 4 or so activations). Game 2 you can't afford to be dredging all the time because that leaves you open to their Rest in Peaces and you need to draw your Krosan Grips. I suppose hitting Miracles' 2 Plains has some merit to protect Marit (haha) Lage, but Rishadan Port also does that while not eating up your land drops/draw steps and providing them with free shuffles.

I suppose that's one way to look at it. My personal perspective has always been that the number one long-term goal for a given game against a fair deck is to lock down their mana. I DO run a mainboard crucible, so aggressively dredging game 1 to try and quarter/waste lock my opponents is something I don't mind doing. I HAVE been toying with the idea of actually cutting the combo down to 1-of thespians and Dark Depths with no crop rotations game 1, and boarding into a configuration more like the straight combolands build for game 2/3. I'm not sure how it would work out in an unknown meta, but locally I could probably steal some wins from people who I play with fairly regularly.

[Anen]

From BoM coverage round 6: a Lands player is 6-0 and Phelix was 4-1 at the beginning of round 6 (with only 1 bye and if he is on Lands for this tournament). Only 2 Lands players in the room according to the metagame breakdown. And they are doing good :)

[snurly]

That 4 color loam deck from BoM is all over the place.
Teeg + GSZ seems like an odd choice.
I haven't watched coverage yet, but hopefully they show a few matches to see how this deck works.

[Tyrio]

The 4C Loam list has been around for almost a year now. If you take a look at the Aggro Loam thread there's a lot of discussion about it. Hoogland popularized a more controlling list with Burning Wish and Devastating Dreams, but with the printing of TNN it fell to the wayside.

[snurly]

The 4C Loam list has been around for almost a year now. If you take a look at the Aggro Loam thread there's a lot of discussion about it. Hoogland popularized a more controlling list with Burning Wish and Devastating Dreams, but with the printing of TNN it fell to the wayside.
I'll check that out, thanks. I guess without Terravore and DD I didn't recognize it :smile:

[Dat_Gentleman]

I've found I've had a very solid matchup with miracles over the long-term, probably as high as a 70% match-win. First thing is that I'm on a 4c build with mainboard crucible, eex2, zuran orb. Second thing is that I still run a ghost-quarter. As such, My plan has pretty much always been to move to quarter and waste their mana base game one to prevent large entreats. I run a creeping tarpit as a jace-slayer MB as well. Because they're set up to be very counter-heavy game one, and don't have any relevant interaction short of a resolved jace + countertop lock at 2 and entreats, if you can disrupt their mana base early to prevent them from resolving jace or getting an entreat for more than 2 angels, you can hide behind bridges and grind out their mana base before going for a win-con. Post-board, I have a pithing needle for top, and then I usually either have access to intuition for urborg + raven's crime + loam to strip their hand early, or geist of st. win. Game-plan post-board is therefore to needle their tops, usually by k-gripping the counterbalance(s) first then slamming needle. Biggest priority postboard is probably to not let them have a Jace active without a response, because they don't have a way to win a long-game without him unless they manage to exile all of your punishing fires, your tarpit, and your DD/Stage's. It's by no means a free lunch of a matchup, but I've been playing lands all the way through since countertop/landstill was a thing, so I've got a good intuition for what the best line of play is for me in a given game.

The biggest thing with miracles players is that they're in general used to being reactive and controlling, and it takes a very experienced miracles player to recognize that in this matchup, they're the beatdown since lands (with ghost quarter) has the ability to restrict their mana base much harder over the long term than any delver, D&T, or pox deck. I can't count the games I've stolen off of miracles players who chose the control role and then lost to a quarters-lock while they scrambled to find a win-con while they still had lands available.

Could i get a list of your 4C lands build? I haven't seen a 4C list play urborg and ravens crime yet.

[BlackStarDeceiver]

From BoM coverage round 6: a Lands player is 6-0 and Phelix was 4-1 at the beginning of round 6 (with only 1 bye and if he is on Lands for this tournament). Only 2 Lands players in the room according to the metagame breakdown. And they are doing good :)

Hey guys, i am the RG Lands player who played at the BOM9.

I was at 5-0-1 going in the 7th round, lost against Marcus Olson on Miracles then won 2-0 (first turn Marit Lage game 1) against Camille on Shardless just to lose 2-1 to Alex Delgado on Miracles (match 3 was on stream) and then lost an epic Match against Michael Bonde on DNT in 3 games involving Cataclysm with 5 floating for Thalia and Flickerwisp for my Token while having lethal on the following turn with Punishing Fire even if he was able to kill Marit Lage... Cataclsm got me there. Shout out to Michael Bonde for the patience he kept and a lot of fun during the match.

I played a pretty standart RG list with 4 Crop/3 Gamble and Riftstone Portal as 61 card to fight against Blood Moon. I regret not playing 3 Slaughtergames, which would have won me probably all of my games against Miracles.

Feel free to ask any further ;)

[Phelix]

@BlackstarDeciever

Hey Man.

Grats anyway, and thanks for comming over to talk to me :)

Will be watching the games on twitch as soon as i can.

I went 5-1-1 at the saturday legacy event, with a Classic build, w. crops in the side.


Currently Brewing:

Classic build w. maindeck crops, and Sideboard Defense grid.


Sidenote:

Vs DNT, its about one thing only: Keeping them of cataclysm mana. (and yes, ive played a reasonable amount of games vs michael:rolleyes:)


EDIT:
Anen: Like a fool, i played Elves Again - just like last BoM. I scrubbed out after that 4-1 you mentioned. Totally shoulda stuck w. lands in that BuG meta.
Sidenote: I also failed last BoM.

Lesson learned: Dont play dem freaking elves at BoM no more!:laugh:

[fdiv_bug]

I played a pretty standart RG list with 4 Crop/3 Gamble and Riftstone Portal as 61 card to fight against Blood Moon. I regret not playing 3 Slaughtergames, which would have won me probably all of my games against Miracles.

Would you be willing to share your complete list (or feel free to point me somewhere it's already posted)? I've been out of the game for several months due to real life, but I'm about to start up again and I'm always keen to see what's happening in the world of Lands. And `grats on a decent performance at a seriously large event!

[BlackStarDeceiver]

Hey Man.

Grats anyway, and thanks for comming over to talk to me :)

Will be watching the games on twitch as soon as i can.



Always a pleasure to meet people with a good taste in magic decks ;)

"I once met a guy that read my Glacial Chasm, said okay, then proceeded to bolt my face. Oh it was just now and it's you." Hilarious moment, awesome match from your side.

Fun fact: i only played against 1 BUG deck the whole day and 4 times against Miracles...

R1 2-1 against Canadian
R2 2-1 against Patriot Blade (thought he was on Miracles after he scooped to 6 Rishadan Ports game 1)
R3 1-1-1 against Yohan Dudognon on Miracles
R4 2-0 against Miracles
R5 2-0 backup feature match against Smallpox (T3 kill both games)
R6 2-0 against Elves
R7 0-2 against Marcus Olson on Miracles
R8 2-0 against Shardless
R9 1-2 against Alex Delgado on Miracles
R10 1-2 against Michael Bonde on DNT

List was:

4 Life from the Loam
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Punishing Fire
2 Taiga
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Gamble
4 Crop Rotation
2 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Dark Depths
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Primeval Titan
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Ashen Rider


Riftstone won me 2 Games once against Moon and once because i could tap Mazes and Tabernacle for mana
REB worked fine against Miracles, countering CB and killing a Jace. Should be Slaughtergames though, with one Bayou instead of Maze #4 (Thespian helps a lot here)
Ashen Rider was experimental against random SNT, i did not even see one beeing played around me.

Talked to Loxmati on Thursday and we figured this out together somehow. I was willing to try some stuff as i did not expect to do particularly well, just playing for the funsies.

[Phelix]

Loxmati is super fun.


"I once met a guy that read my Glacial Chasm, said okay, then proceeded to bolt my face. Oh it was just now and it's you."

Haha, yeah.

was awesome.

To outsiders:

Im playing the last round of a circa 100 people legacy side event. Vs nice guy on UR delver, w. Price, bloodmoon etc.

Game one i drop glacial chasm, he reads it, and I tell him a story from a few days back, where I let a guy read chasm, WHO then asks:

But I can attack you?
"-yes"

I can attack?
"-Yes"

Eqiups jitte to his batterskull to swing into my chasm for 0.

My opponent laughs at the story, then puts chasm back into play, and bolts me.

I say "Ok."

He facepalms.




Then tell him this story:

"I once met a guy that read my Glacial Chasm, said okay, then proceeded to bolt my face. Oh it was just now and it's you."



.

Im no deuche, just friendly bantering - my opponent laughed, it was all good :)

[Phelix]

test

[Phelix]

my list from 5-1-1. (not recommended build)

Meta was combo light - and I removed bojuka bog as a metagame choice. I faced 1 dredgre and won 2-0 siding loads of Cards, including sphere, bridge and chalices. Ofc crop rotations are game over here, even if i dont get bog.(flayerdredge)


As mentioned before, id recommend focusing more on combo, w. maindeck crop rotations.

1 Forest
1 Bayou
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
1 Taiga
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Tolaria West
3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths

1 Engineered Explosives
1 Oblivion Stone
4 Mox Diamond
1 Zuran Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Smokestack
1 Crucible of Worlds


1 Manabond
4 Exploration

1 Worm Harvest
3 Intuition
3 Punishing Fire
4 Life from the Loam

// Sideboard:
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4 Dark Confidant
SB: 2 Krosan Grip

[snorlaxcom]

Can the primer get an update/overhaul? It has long been overdue, but I'd like to help. Still waiting for part 9, too.

[Anen]

Can the primer get an update/overhaul? It has long been overdue, but I'd like to help. Still waiting for part 9, too.

Yeah, with the Depths combo we have a new angle of attack that need to be included. However I think the RG combo version of Lands deserves its own thread, pretty much like the Jund Liliana list has one in developmental.

[Phelix]

Yeah, with the Depths combo we have a new angle of attack that need to be included. However I think the RG combo version of Lands deserves its own thread, pretty much like the Jund Liliana list has one in developmental.

i agree. since one is a combo deck, the other a control.

[snorlaxcom]

Not interested in a primer for Kurt's list. Needs it's own thread.

How does an update happen? We start from what is already posted from OP? Has some key analysis already, but can only Tao do it? Didn't get a response when I pm'd in December.

[Anen]

Not interested in a primer for Kurt's list. Needs it's own thread.

How does an update happen? We start from what is already posted from OP? Has some key analysis already, but can only Tao do it?

Yeah not interested in the RG primer neither xD
Cuthbertthecat and Malacoda did a very good job 2 years ago by rewritting the all primer. However, they are not playing Lands any longer I think.
Maybe you should open a public Google doc so people can contribute. Tao is still active on the forums, so when we consider the update is ready we could just ask him to update his post. Only him and mods can update the first post.

[Tyrio]

Probably going to run this Sparkii inspired list at Knoxville:

4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Intuition
2 Crop Rotation

1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Tolaria West
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Thespian Stage
2 Dark Depths
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith

SB:
3 Krosan Grip
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Swan Song

At 61 cards for the Bojuka Bog. I really want to jam a 3rd Engineered Explosives into the MD somewhere; with 1 less Tolaria West it's slightly harder to find and it kills DRS and RiP which are pretty much the only permanents we care about. Maybe I can shave away the 2nd copies of Stage and Dark Depths for it to go back down to 60 but with 2 copies of each I've definitely been noticing the increase in naturally drawn Marit Lages.

I've been liking the white splash and Thalia over Bob a lot, even though she comes in less match ups. Not sure if the Thorn/Sphere split is worth it to accommodate my abundance of hatebears vs. playing against Elves.

[Phelix]

consider cutting white.,


it lets you play ghost quarter main.

[Tyrio]

Went 6-2 and got 19th with poor breakers and the below match ups at SCG Knoxville.

1-2 Deathblade
2-1 Jund
2-0 Affinity
2-0 UWR Delver
2-0 BG Pox
1-2 UR Delver
2-0 Affinity
2-1 DnT w/ GQ and Arbiter

List was same as above but with the 3rd EE in place of the 2nd Crop Rotation. Crop Rotation gave me a few kills against Jund and Affinity, but I could have probably won those games if they went longer anyway and overall the Rotations still felt weak. Rotation greatly increases the power of Bojuka Bog and Glacial Chasm, but I feel like it doesn't do much to improve your board presence if you're missing one of your Marit Lage pieces.

During the open trial I was preemptively placing EE on 1 blindly on the play and was generally punished for it, especially in post-boarded games against decks with RiP. I suppose it should be pretty obvious in retrospect to put it on 2 against DnT though, since they have so many of their creatures/RiP clustered around the 2 mana slot.

I think the 3rd EE was good, but with only a small cluster of games and a lot of good matchups it's hard to tell if it made a large impact or not.

As far as the actual games went: Game 1 against Deathblade was a blowout with Exploration and natural Marit Lage on t3 with Port backup. Game 2 was the grindfest with him Extracting my PFires and making it extremely difficult to deal with Jace and Clique+Karakas. He eventually bounces his own Snapcaster so I can never recur EE and eventually grinds me out. There was one amusing point where he Cliques away my Loam and I draw another off the Clique trigger, but I crucially forget to leave a green source open for Thicket, instead choosing to Port him, and he promptly eats it with DRS. Game 3 I keep a hand with PFire and Exploration but no action and appropriately draw no action before he creatures me out. He apparently sided out his Stoneforge package and had no RiPs to begin with, leaving my Krosan Grips useless. Maybe I should have deduced that with him brainstorming approximately 10 times with Jace in game 2 and never seeing an enchantment/artifact and the fact that he never took my Grips with something like 5 Clique activations? Who knows.

The next 4 rounds were typical affairs, Crop Rotation may have won me the Jund match, where I rotated into Marit Lage g3 against 2 Goyfs when (I think) I had no other action. Patriot, Affinity and Pox were stomps. At one point Patriot had to Plowshares my Revoker because after Plowing Marit Lage it was legitimately racing his two flipped Delvers. Playing against Pox was fun, because that poor deck has literally no game against us.

Played against UR Delver round 5. He opens with fetch for Gitaxian Probe, fetch for Island, Ponder. Then over the next few turns has some more cantrips, an Arid Mesa and a mountain and I put him on SnS with an awkward draw. On turn 4 he finally plays a Goblin Guide and I just start laughing. Anyway he finds 2 Price of Progress game 1 but crucially lets me resolve Zuran Orb before PoPing, which lets me race him with Marit Lage by 1 turn.

I punt in game 3 after he brainstorm locks himself by Crop Rotating for a white source for Thalia. I choose to Rotate for Fetchland->Savannah, but should have rotated for Karakas to protect her instead. I'm appropriately punished when he eventually draws his lands and kills Thalia, and I assembly zero pressure over some 8 turns after casting Thalia.

Nothing notable about the next two games. Affinity has zero game pre-board against Glacial Chasm and post-board is hardly better. I split the cash prize with DnT but we played it out anyway. I chose to EE away an Arbiter and Thalia instead of Brimaz, and then died to the king of cats. Games 2 and 3 he made some poor decisions with his porting which gave me a lot of time to take control of the game.

Overall I had good matchups all day but still managed to punt like usual. Made some Monopoly money in the end though and had fun, opponents were nice and local buddy Megadeus managed to top 8 with Deadguy.

[Phelix]

I have had the opposite experience, where crops were always the nuts.

also i have struggled in the jund matchup - do you actively go for combo, over control here? whats your mulligan range vs them and how do you chose to board?


(The above statements are based on an small sample size of 20-40 games)

[Anen]

I usually Crop in response to a Wasteland because you are right it doesn't advance our board state if you do otherwise. And unless I can do something crazy with it, it just sits in my hand.

[amalek0]

I have had the opposite experience, where crops were always the nuts.

also i have struggled in the jund matchup - do you active go for combo, over control here? whats your mulligan range vs them and how do you chose to board?


(The above statements are based on an small sample size of 20-40 games)

I've never found the jund matchup to be a problem--establish punishing fire lock to prevent their creatures from being relevant, get an exploration online to ensure they don't get randomly lucky and manascrew you out, and just strangle their manabase. I never actively look to combo, except against fast combo. I board in bobs if I'm on that plan, and crucible/additional EE/additional punishing fire, boarding out karakas/dead tutor targets, intuitions and manabonds. Jund is basically a fair deck, so stabilize against their board, establish an EE or punishing fire lock, then get wastelands/ghost quarters and go to town on their mana base. I don't board out zuran orb for this matchup, but will often board out the 3rd tolaria west.

[Sparkii]

I'm glad you enjoyed the list Tyrio, congrats on the finish.

Overall, I think crop rotation is the nuts. Even changing an unused dual into a port or something is really, really good.

[Phelix]

I've never found the jund matchup to be a problem--establish punishing fire lock to prevent their creatures from being relevant, get an exploration online to ensure they don't get randomly lucky and manascrew you out, and just strangle their manabase. I never actively look to combo, except against fast combo. I board in bobs if I'm on that plan, and crucible/additional EE/additional punishing fire, boarding out karakas/dead tutor targets, intuitions and manabonds. Jund is basically a fair deck, so stabilize against their board, establish an EE or punishing fire lock, then get wastelands/ghost quarters and go to town on their mana base. I don't board out zuran orb for this matchup, but will often board out the 3rd tolaria west.

assumptions:

they play an amount of creatues less than, or equal to your punishing fire/maze of ith.

you stick an exploration, that doesnt get discarded or hit with abrupt decay.

you solve their lilliana

you can race their mana, their Waste as well as deal w. critters.

moon effects dont kill you.

?

[Anen]

assumptions:

they play an amount of creatues less than, or equal to your punishing fire/maze of ith.

you stick an exploration, that doesnt get discarded or hit with abrupt decay.

you solve their lilliana

you can race their mana, their Waste as well as deal w. critters.

moon effects dont kill you.

?

Pretty much this. Jund is a fair matchup, definitely not an easy one.

[amalek0]

assumptions:

they play an amount of creatues less than, or equal to your punishing fire/maze of ith.

you stick an exploration, that doesnt get discarded or hit with abrupt decay.

you solve their lilliana

you can race their mana, their Waste as well as deal w. critters.

moon effects dont kill you.

?

-They play an amount of creatures less than, or equal to your punishing fire/maze of ith.
Pretty much yeah. The point of the Pfire engine is it's repeatable, and the only dude they play that can't be hit with one pfire activation that I've seen is goyf. Thrun from the SB is the only creature they play that I'm remotely worried about, because DRS, Bob, and bloodbraid all die to one punishing fire. post-board, if they have thrun it's a 1-of and engineered explosives can get there.

-you stick an exploration, that doesn't get discarded or hit with abrupt decay
where in my game plan does sticking an exploration come in? You don't need exploration active to shred their mana base once they stabilize, I've gone on the ghost-quarter plan against jund before with only one land-drop per turn after stabilizing and it worked fine. It's not a clean or fast way to end the match, but it does work if you're forced to it.

-you solve their liliana
Yes, liliana is the big threat in the matchup, which is why you have 3 pfires and 2-3 engineered explosives mainboard. As with miracles though, it isn't the first lili ult that ends the game, it's the 2nd one. And, being a loam deck, we don't hurt as badly playing off the top as they do, it's not uncommon to find the jund player not wanting to + liliana because they have action in hand. and post-board, I bring in every punishing fire, every engineered explosives, and if I have it pithing needle for her. I also have a tarpit main, so there's that. Games pre- and post-board can be determined by whether they get to ride liliana.

-you can race their mana, their waste as well as critters
Well hmm. I'm not sure if there's any deck not packing dark rituals that can race the potential for mana production lands has just as a rule of thumb. wastelands can randomly blow you out, sure. It's a race to stabilize, but it's a straightforward one. We play life from the loam, and they don't run extra card-draw aside from a sylvan library or two, so I don't really see how they plan to out-gas us going long. Note that in fair matchups, your first goal isn't to choke their mana, it's to stabilize the board and not-die. Jund is a matchup where I often cut ports when sideboarding, because they really aren't as tight on the mana as you want them to be, and you have other angles you're trying to attack. shredding their mana base is a win-con, not your initial goal. Your goal should be to get engineered explosives or punishing fire recursion going ASAP in order to survive, then start looking for a way to win.

-Moon effects don't kill you
Yeah. Bloodmoon hurts. If they take seemingly greedy mulligan decisions (quick mulls, etc) assume they're digging for a moon or a leyline in their opener and consider your keep appropriately. If you see moon game 2, there's the krosan grips in the board for a reason, or entomb-ray of revelation if you're on that plan. If you see moon game 1 and they don't kill you with painter's servant or play sol lands, call a judge and see if you get a free game win.

Like someone said below, jund is a fair matchup. That doesn't mean it's easy to navigate correctly, or that it's a free win, but it does mean there's a fairly simple procedure to winning in general--stabilize, set up a repeatable engine to bury them in card advantage, then find a way to win.

EDIT: I should add my mainboard is set up with only one depths and one stage, I'm very heavy on the interaction with midrange-ish builds game one, based on my assumption that there's very few cards that matter in the miracles matchup, and that my combo g1 is either complete trash or close to it. I have 2 intuition, 2 tolaria, 2 thickets, 3 mazes, 3 EE's, 3 pfires, 3 groves mainboard, along with a crucible, oblivion stone, and zuran orb. I have all of that space for fair stuff by only having one copy of each part of the combo and no crop rotations or gamble/entomb and a slightly greedy fetch-base with 3 green fetches and 2 trops, 1 taiga 1 bayou 1 forest

[dafrk3in]

What level of success have people posting here achieved with Lands decks? I built the Kurt Spiess version of the deck earlier this year, and I've messed around with it a bit, and I'm thinking about branching out to a more traditional version of the deck. I'm interested to see what kind of results people get overall, and how they differ between the traditional version and the combo-oriented version.

I've kept track of my (mostly MTGO) tournament results. So far I'm 81-42 in tournament matches.

[Tyrio]

I top 8'ed Nashville with Control Lands and money'd at ATL and KNOX. I'm too lazy to check mtgtop8 but I believe there was one other top 8 with Control Lands and maybe 2-3 other top 8's with RG Combo Lands after Kurt Speiss's win/first top 8?

I don't think I've seen Jund Lands since it's first top 8 in January. The Bant/Living Wish list also only ever top 16'd at the GP.

[Rampart]

I think you will find that the people that post normally in this thread will have a lot of success with lands regardless of the shell that they play. Lands players are pretty much specialists in the deck. People either love playing it or hate playing it.

I personally pretty much only play the combo shell now and have given up on the control shell. I average about of 80% match win percentage (over 100 match's IRL) in a highly competitive community with the only real problems that I have run into is the local BUG Delver masters and the one/two Miracle players and I am 50/50 against them.

If your looking for deck choice between the control shell or the combo shell it really comes down to personal preference. If you have all cards to build the combo shell its should be pretty reasonable to pick up the rest of the cards to build the control shell.

[Anen]

What level of success have people posting here achieved with Lands decks? I built the Kurt Spiess version of the deck earlier this year, and I've messed around with it a bit, and I'm thinking about branching out to a more traditional version of the deck. I'm interested to see what kind of results people get overall, and how they differ between the traditional version and the combo-oriented version.

I've kept track of my (mostly MTGO) tournament results. So far I'm 81-42 in tournament matches.

We are actually doing a bit of work on the primer and we have included 2 new sections: one about recent placing and another about recent reports. It should help people answer this kind of question :)

[Anen]

So, who needs foil Explorations? ^^
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1497

[aluisiocsantos]

Dat missdirection will be worht like $$$$$$$$$

[Rampart]

So, who needs foil Explorations? ^^
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1497

you mean foil japanese exporations :eek:

[snorlaxcom]

Meh, not a fan. I like keeping it OG korean, but id be up for a judge foil like hierarch

[amalek0]

I want those explorations in foil, but how much $$ are foil rares from this set gonna go for? obviously, it's gonna crash the price on nonfoil explorations hard, maybe back down to the $10-$15 range, but are the foils gonna stay ridiculous?

[sarahiscute]

i do not think with the re-print of exploration, the price of the old ones will drop much.

instead, it will increase in price for both the new and old version of exploration.

because many ppl will want to have a set of their own and the new exploration will be sought after.

so my prediction:

price increase for exploration.

primeval titan have spoken. he is pleased with the reprint.

[Rampart]

i do not think with the re-print of exploration, the price of the old ones will drop much.

instead, it will increase in price for both the new and old version of exploration.

because many ppl will want to have a set of their own and the new exploration will be sought after.

so my prediction:

price increase for exploration.

primeval titan have spoken. he is pleased with the reprint.

This set is not modern legal, so i don't think he is that Prime time is pleased with this reprint. I mean exploration is only ran in about 4 decks in legacy and all of them but "lands" are pretty fringe

[snorlaxcom]

7-2-1 in Somerset finishing 27th. Punted vs D&T, but had great matches all day. Didn't see any other Lands do well.

[Anen]

7-2-1 in Somerset finishing 27th. Punted vs D&T, but had great matches all day. Didn't see any other Lands do well.

Congrats. And I want to hear the story behind DnT ^^

[snorlaxcom]

7-2-1 in Somerset finishing 27th. Punted vs D&T, but had great matches all day. Didn't see any other Lands do well.

Right, so I sequenced my land drops horribly and was a land behind since t2 because I forgot I had exploration out. That held back EE capability because the next turn he dropped Thalia. When I saw vial at 3 I knew he had eot tricks and banked on him using vial. I declared eot and he tapped vial. At this point I was thinking to respond with crop rotation for a sweeping tabernacle, but if he had flickerwisp he could have hit tabernacle with it so I figured I'll wait for the wisp to come in and target and then I can crop. Besides, aven mincensor is a one of in the deck... Down comes bird and I rotate a land out only to find a grove in the top 4. Punted here cause g1 had enough life to survive that attack if wisp did indeed blink out tab. G2 he revokered irrelevant cards all game and I didn't play a twest tapped a turn earlier to ee for 2 in time.

Last round I had to win at 6-2-1. He wins the roll and does t1 chalice. Ok not the greatest against me but then I look at my hand again and see it blanks half my hand. I draw a maze, play heath, and pass. He plays magus and I fetch a trop. Things are looking grim. I have a forest in hand so I play it out. I draw pfire and pass after playing forest. Not afraid of painter/blast LD with chalice so i figured it was safe(it was). He plays a 1/3 trample dude that can basically draw cards and seal the deal. I draw and play maze. He plays mountains from here and I fire the magus and maze the other dude. From here I can loam to dig for a grove because he only has deck space for dudes so no actual blood moon fits. After I get a grove I stop digging to break out of chalice. The whole time maze is stopping his dork and after i ee for 0 i double exploration and build all the mana. Crop got marit when i had the kill available because chasm held back his 3 dudes at this point and i dont need maze with chasm out and pfire lock for magus. Eot the chasm away to put him to one and burn the face. G2 was insane and only drew all the sb cards. T1 bob with grip in hand and he has no removal. He t2 moons this time but the other grip i flip to bob is timely. I play land and pass after swinging in and play bob #two. He plays mountain #2 and trinisphere? Sweet. I draw 3 cards lose 1 life. Grip his moon waste his sol land and he locks himself out. Next turn i have port up and he cant play spells. Double bob beats face till the end with exploration deployed to further pull ahead under trinisphere.

[dafrk3in]

Right, so I sequenced my land drops horribly and was a land behind since t2 because I forgot I had exploration out. That held back EE capability because the next turn he dropped Thalia. When I saw vial at 3 I knew he had eot tricks and banked on him using vial. I declared eot and he tapped vial. At this point I was thinking to respond with crop rotation for a sweeping tabernacle, but if he had flickerwisp he could have hit tabernacle with it so I figured I'll wait for the wisp to come in and target and then I can crop. Besides, aven mincensor is a one of in the deck... Down comes bird and I rotate a land out only to find a grove in the top 4. Punted here cause g1 had enough life to survive that attack if wisp did indeed blink out tab. G2 he revokered irrelevant cards all game and I didn't play a twest tapped a turn earlier to ee for 2 in time.

Last round I had to win at 6-2-1. He wins the roll and does t1 chalice. Ok not the greatest against me but then I look at my hand again and see it blanks half of my plays. I draw a maze, play heath, and pass. He plays magus and I fetch a trop. Things are looking grim. I have a forest in hand so I play it out. I draw pfire and pass after playing forest. Not afraid of painter/blast LD with chalice so i figured it was safe(it was). He plays a 1/3 trample dude that can basically draw cards and seal the deal. I draw and play maze. He plays mountains from here and I fire the magus and maze the other dude. From here I can loam to dig for a grove because he only has deck space for dudes so no actual blood moon fits. After I get a grove I stop digging to break out of chalice. The whole time maze is stopping his dork and after i ee for 0 i double exploration and build all the mana. Crop got marit when i had the kill available because chasm held back his 3 dudes at this point and i dont need maze with chasm out and pfire lock for magus. Eot the chasm away to put him to one and burn the face. G2 was insane and only drew all the sb cards. T1 bob with grip in hand and he has no removal. He t2 moons this time but the other grip i flip to bob is timely. I play land and pass after swinging in and play bob #two. He plays mountain #2 and trinisphere? Sweet. I draw 3 cards lose 1 life. Grip his moon waste his sol land and he locks himself out. Next turn i have port up and he cant play spells. Double bob beats face till the end with exploration deployed to further pull ahead under trinisphere.

FYI: If you cast EE for G, paying R for the Thalia cost, it still comes into play with two counters, and so on.

[snorlaxcom]

Thanks for the tip (important vs vials). I only seem to remember that with 3 sphere, but the play was to twest for ee. I was unsure wether to play the twest tapped as the second blue source and draw into another. The next turn i drew twest so i should have played towards drawing into one more agressively. Once i drew the second t west i played it and tutored for ee the following turn.

Other loss was to elves and draw was to aggro loam.

[jhhdk]

FYI: If you cast EE for G, paying R for the Thalia cost, it still comes into play with two counters, and so on.
So unless you have a land that produces colorless mana Thalia, Guardian of Thraben prevents Engineered Explosives at 0?

[snorlaxcom]

So unless you have a land that produces colorless mana Thalia, Guardian of Thraben prevents Engineered Explosives at 0?

Correct

[Tyrio]

So unless you have a land that produces colorless mana Thalia, Guardian of Thraben prevents Engineered Explosives at 0?

Yes. Messing with EE is also helpful vs Countertop. If you know they're floating a 2 you can play the EE with x = 3 or 4 by using (probably useless) Wastelands and/or Rishadan Ports to pad the X value while only using two colors for sunburst.

[snorlaxcom]

Direct further discussion to the newly established "Lands" thread. Le yay! Includes an updated OP relevant to 2014 and I will maintain it. Can a mod lock this now then?

[fdiv_bug]

Direct further discussion to the newly established "Lands" thread. Le yay! Includes an updated OP relevant to 2014 and I will maintain it. Can a mod lock this now then?

Neat! Link is here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28107-Deck-Lands) for the lazy. :smile:

[Zilla]

Closed. New Lands primer is here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28107-Deck-Lands).