[Deck] 43 Lands

[Stoyrm]

I'm starting to think that Intuition + another tutor lands is just straight better than only E-tutor. I did a lot of testing today with just e-tutor, and I lost several favorable matchups because I died before I assembled a gameplan, a problem that intuition solves. I think that may be why you're having trouble with some of those favorable matchups; for example today I lost 2 matces to maverick in testing, when with Intuition and Tutor lands, I've lost only one match to maverick across countless tournaments of varying scales of competitiveness over the last 7 months.

You are correct that this deck is difficult, the best thing to do is find a friend who can stand some torture and playtest like a fiend. The more you play with this deck, the more tricks and synergies you find. I would also suggest switching to a build with Intuition and E-Tutor if you're having trouble finding relevant cards.

For mulligans, I always mulligan 7-landers, I don't keep hands with 2 or more pieces of acceleration without loam on hands with 6 cards or more, double-diamond with loam and only mana lands is a mulligan that deciptively looks like a keep, and I don't keep 7 card hands with only 1 tutor as a business spell and the rest lands. I'm pretty finnicky with my mulligans, but I think they're correct.

Nic fit is bad for us, but after the last several times I've played against it, I think it's beatable. They don't do anything, and not in the good way like us. TES is impossible, good pilots will be able to beat your LD. The last time I played against it, I wasted him 3 times and ghost quartered him, and he won with ease. The other time I played agaisnt it recently, he was able to beat chalice on 1 with waste lock. Just hope you don't get paired against it, or that they don't draw bounce.

My list atm has changed to this;

4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
3 Intuition
4 Mox Diamond
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Manabond
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Cursed Totem
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
3 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Rifstone Portal
2 Mishra's Factory

My sideboard now;
1 Oblivion Stone
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Dark Confidant
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Circle of Protection Red
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Smokestack

Not been tested to much, but i like having the intuition. Chalice of the Void has been okay so far, but i think i like having Thalia in that spot perhaps. Thalia seems like a beating in the combo matchups. Not sure though, as it can't be found with enlightened tutor.

I disagree with the NicFit part though. They ramp up and play cards that you can't interact with favourably (Sigarda or other shroud guys), then blow up your cursed totems to use scavenging ooze. They have so many ways of taking you out, you can't actually lock them out, you have to hope to get there in someway, but locking them out is not the way :p.

As for the mulligan decisions, still hard, but thanks for your insight :D

[mario91234]

Read through the primer and some pats of the thread, looking to play the deck at a tournament in the near future. Some comments:

Is Bojuka Bog effective maindeck? It seems very good in theory with the rise of RUG and Maverick along with lingering souls.
Is Darkblast a legitimate option for the deck to play? It gives us alot of reach and dredging into loam seems to be a good idea.

[Anen]

Is Bojuka Bog effective maindeck? It seems very good in theory with the rise of RUG and Maverick along with lingering souls.
Is Darkblast a legitimate option for the deck to play? It gives us alot of reach and dredging into loam seems to be a good idea.

Bog is good, and more since it can be tutored for.
About Darkblast, well except for bob I can't think of any x/1 I would like to kill right away.

[fdiv_bug]

Thalia seems like a beating in the combo matchups. Not sure though, as it can't be found with enlightened tutor.
Thorn of Amethyst can, and it's arguably even better from our point of view (not susceptible to creature removal, tutorable, same CMC so it's no slower to cast, and can be brought back with Academy Ruins). Maybe give that a shot?

[cuthbertthecat]

Thorn of Amethyst can, and it's arguably even better from our point of view (not susceptible to creature removal, tutorable, same CMC so it's no slower to cast, and can be brought back with Academy Ruins). Maybe give that a shot?

Maybe, but thorn not putting them under any pressure is an issue. I think if you want that effect Thalia is just the best, although I'm not sure if either is better than more Canonists.

[Stoyrm]

When i played my storm deck i usually had way worse a time dealing with Thalia than Canonist. Also; Thorn of Amethyst, does not put pressure on the opponent as cuth said. Oh well, i guess i'll have to try it out someday :). Just got to be done with the exams first!

[cuthbertthecat]

When i played my storm deck i usually had way worse a time dealing with Thalia than Canonist. Also; Thorn of Amethyst, does not put pressure on the opponent as cuth said. Oh well, i guess i'll have to try it out someday :). Just got to be done with the exams first!

Yeah Thalia is harder for them, but I dont have any foil Thalias. It's quite the predicament.

[Namida]

Thorn of Amethyst can, and it's arguably even better from our point of view (not susceptible to creature removal, tutorable, same CMC so it's no slower to cast, and can be brought back with Academy Ruins). Maybe give that a shot?

The only deck that you probably want to side sphere effects in against is a combo deck, and Combo players are more inclined to have artifact hate and bounce than creature removal, because bounce solves every one of their problems, and Stax cards like Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere are so much more crippling that having a permanent response to them is far more important than being able to kill a Thalia or a Gaddock Teeg permanently. In addition, Thalia actually kills your opponent, which seems better than giving them infinite time to find an answer to your disruption.

[Phelix]

Thalia has no synergy with your deck. and a 10 turn clock isnt doing antything for you.


if you play thalia, play 10+ hatebears at least.


and of course any storm players creature bounce in sideboard.

[Stoyrm]

However, you're also playing mishra's factory and dark confidant. In a combo matchup, it's likely that it won't be a 10 turn clock, and it also makes all your wastelands and ports better.

[Giggioz]

Hi all,

About the nic-fit matchup : has anybody thought to Karmic Justice (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Karmic%20Justice)?

It answers to the most problematic spell for us (Pernicious Deed (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Pernicious%20Deed)) while it is still decente against pulse and qsali or whatever.

It is tutorable by e-tutor.

What do you think?

[cuthbertthecat]

Hi all,

About the nic-fit matchup : has anybody thought to Karmic Justice (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Karmic%20Justice)?

It answers to the most problematic spell for us (Pernicious Deed (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Pernicious%20Deed)) while it is still decente against pulse and qsali or whatever.

It is tutorable by e-tutor.

What do you think?

It's not awful, it seems pretty fine for a heavy nic-fit meta but I can't imagine other matchups where it comes in. Maybe for the mirror and other loam decks.

[Giggioz]

It's not awful, it seems pretty fine for a heavy nic-fit meta but I can't imagine other matchups where it comes in. Maybe for the mirror and other loam decks.

As you said, it resolves quite nicely mirror and aggro loam decks too, answering to their mana denial strategy (no more wasteland for them, no more devastating dreams) and other stuffs like explosives, oblivion stone, krosan grip... i think it could be a nice touch.

[cuthbertthecat]

As you said, it resolves quite nicely mirror and aggro loam decks too, answering to their mana denial strategy (no more wasteland for them, no more devastating dreams) and other stuffs like explosives, oblivion stone, krosan grip... i think it could be a nice touch.

Yeah, I think that Nic Fit is making up a significant enough part of the meta that it warrants inclusion. If it tests well, the real challenge will be finding foil ones...

[Stoyrm]

Tested against Dream Halls yesterday. I had a 4 Dark Confidants, Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist to help me in the battle. Preboard is -100%. You can't win :P. Post board i won 4 out of 5 games. Thalia and Ethersworn were both great, and it really comes up to laying on of them and locking down their mana. The player wasn't all that great though, but i would encourage playing a few games with Thalia :)

[cuthbertthecat]

Tested against Dream Halls yesterday. I had a 4 Dark Confidants, Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist to help me in the battle. Preboard is -100%. You can't win :P. Post board i won 4 out of 5 games. Thalia and Ethersworn were both great, and it really comes up to laying on of them and locking down their mana. The player wasn't all that great though, but i would encourage playing a few games with Thalia :)

I'd believe it. I also kinda want to put trinisphere back in the board; I don't see how they beat that one.

[TraxDaMax]

I'd believe it. I also kinda want to put trinisphere back in the board; I don't see how they beat that one.

I'm playing a singleton 3sphere in side aswell. Wrecks alot of decks.

I'm really liking the Karmic Justice idea. Used to be tech in Stax against rock decks back then, so I guess it could go in my flex slot. Trying it out!

Edit: Does Prismatic Omen nullify Blood Moon for us, and if so is it good for us to have on side or kind of a waste of sideboard space?

[fdiv_bug]

Does Prismatic Omen nullify Blood Moon for us, and if so is it good for us to have on side or kind of a waste of sideboard space?

Kinda/sometimes. They're both applied at the same layer (Layer 4), and neither one is dependent on the other, so they'll be applied in timestamp order. This means that if Blood Moon came out first, then you played Prismatic Omen, your nonbasic lands would become only Mountains, then all your lands would become all basic land types and could tap for any color. Conversely, if you played Prismatic Omen first, then your opponent Blood Moon'd all over the place, then you'd have a bunch of lands that first became all basic land types, and then the nonbasics would become only Mountains.

However, regardless of this, none of your nonbasics would have their additional abilities (e.g. Maze of Ith couldn't untap an attacking creature, and Creeping Tar Pit couldn't become one), because Blood Moon wiped that out when it was applied, and Prismatic Omen wouldn't ever restore it. Since that's primarily what our lands are for -- Mana abilities? Pfft. We got lots of mana. -- it probably isn't quite the trick you're looking for.

Good thought and good question, though.

[cuthbertthecat]

I'm playing a singleton 3sphere in side aswell. Wrecks alot of decks.

I'm really liking the Karmic Justice idea. Used to be tech in Stax against rock decks back then, so I guess it could go in my flex slot. Trying it out!

Edit: Does Prismatic Omen nullify Blood Moon for us, and if so is it good for us to have on side or kind of a waste of sideboard space?

As stated, it can make your lands make non-red mana, but Oblivion Stone is a better answer that comes in against multiple decks.

[TraxDaMax]

As stated, it can make your lands make non-red mana, but Oblivion Stone is a better answer that comes in against multiple decks.

I haven't been able to try out Oblivion Stone yet, but it looks like a solid answer to Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon.

I played Lands yesterday at a 73 man tourny, and lost a game to a turn 3 resolved Magus of the Moon, that kicked me 10 times. I had sensei on the field, and a couple of answers to Magus if I could only hit a mox, but after ten turns "topping" I still didn't find one. :(

(Curious as I am I checked to see when my Mox was coming, and it still took 12 cards... so pretty bad luck there.)

I went 3wins, 3 draw, 1 loss. Was first time I put the deck together and took it to a tourny.
A card that remains an all-star after all these years is Chalice of the Void. It's ridiculous how good this card is when you time it right, and almost nobody is prepared for it. I locked out Burn and High Tide with it, and slowed down Sneaky Show (although that was the game magus did 20 dmg)
The fact that Tolaria West gets it for you is just awesome.

After getting soft-locked by Leyline of the Void and pretty much hard-locked by Magus of the Moon I'm thinking 3 Oblivion Stone should be in the sideboard now though. Trinisphere was good, but not outstanding in most match-ups. Usually I just wanted to bring in CotV.
Karmic Justice worked like a charm against Pox.
I don't think 4 Dark Confidant should ever leave sideboard in this deck. It acts like your loam 5-8 basicly. And he won me several games yesterday while my graveyard was shutdown.

Most of these things probably make sense and are logic to most, but just trying to throw out my conclusions of the deck and see if people think they are right.

[cuthbertthecat]

I haven't been able to try out Oblivion Stone yet, but it looks like a solid answer to Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon.

I played Lands yesterday at a 73 man tourny, and lost a game to a turn 3 resolved Magus of the Moon, that kicked me 10 times. I had sensei on the field, and a couple of answers to Magus if I could only hit a mox, but after ten turns "topping" I still didn't find one. :(

(Curious as I am I checked to see when my Mox was coming, and it still took 12 cards... so pretty bad luck there.)

I went 3wins, 3 draw, 1 loss. Was first time I put the deck together and took it to a tourny.
A card that remains an all-star after all these years is Chalice of the Void. It's ridiculous how good this card is when you time it right, and almost nobody is prepared for it. I locked out Burn and High Tide with it, and slowed down Sneaky Show (although that was the game magus did 20 dmg)
The fact that Tolaria West gets it for you is just awesome.

After getting soft-locked by Leyline of the Void and pretty much hard-locked by Magus of the Moon I'm thinking 3 Oblivion Stone should be in the sideboard now though. Trinisphere was good, but not outstanding in most match-ups. Usually I just wanted to bring in CotV.
Karmic Justice worked like a charm against Pox.
I don't think 4 Dark Confidant should ever leave sideboard in this deck. It acts like your loam 5-8 basicly. And he won me several games yesterday while my graveyard was shutdown.

Most of these things probably make sense and are logic to most, but just trying to throw out my conclusions of the deck and see if people think they are right.

You're pretty much coming to all of the right conclusions about the deck after playing it, which is good. I'm not sure that justice is right in the board with show and tell becoming so good, I think the sideboard slot could be dedicated to another piece of hate to fight them.

On the note of show and tell, I'm considering adding another ensnaring bridge to the maindeck over the cursed totem, which would go in the sideboard. Maverick has been a bit less popular lately, and it isn't impossible to win game 1 without the totem. As far as the sideboard goes, I'm not sure if there are any good dedicated hate pieces to bring in against show and tell. Pithing needle effects are only good against sneak show, which we already have a pretty decent chance to beat. I was thinking about adding some raven's crimes to the sideboard to help combat all combo decks, but especially for against things like dream halls and hive mind. Thoughts?

[TraxDaMax]

My list isn't optimal yet lacking tabernacle still, and oblivion stone side. But I already play 1 raven's crime and 1 urborg main, and moved cursed totem to side adwell. Raven's crime gives control a harder time while being an easy card to side out vs a lot of decks.
Missed top 8 this weekend loosing to UW miracles with a back to nasic maindeck, followed up by jace and entreat the angels.

[Serbitar]

Against Sneak and Show we already run the best hate in Ensnaring Bridge (and Karakas) – though all permanent based hate runs the risk of being bounced after some time (earlier if Griselbrand is involved).

I'm not sure if its worth boarding against the 'slower' combo decks. Your matchup will not get good miraculously and if combo is prevalent enough for the sideboard slots to be necessary you should just play a different deck.

I currently run this board (3 Enlightened Tutor, 1 O.Stone MD) – the debatable slots imho are the Chalices and the Replica:

4 Dark Confidant
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sylvok Replica
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Oblivion Stone
1 Smokestack
1 Cursed Totem
1 Tormod's Crypt

[Grumblecakes]

I have not seen this mentioned. But I am intrigued by the idea of playing terminus and entreat the angels in land. I think it goes without say that Sensei Divining Top would be an auto include. But seems like a good idea. Terminus deals with pretty much all major creature based threats that are effective against land. You can cycle and get it to go off pretty easily. Entreat would probably be like a 1 or 2 of just so you can actually kill players in time.

[TraxDaMax]

Hi, I thought about this too, but it did't take me long to realize this works against our main engine, being loam. If we would use this tactic, I think we would be wanting 4 top, 4 EtA, 4 terminu, because we will be dredging away alot of those goodies. One of the powers of this deck is that more then 90% of the deck is recurrable. Suddenly giving blue players more counter options doesn't sound that interesting to me yet, but it should be tested none the less.

[TheStorm]

Hey all, just so you know a 36 land build is in the top 4 of SSG legacy Detroit.

[ESG]

Bobby Kovacs takes down Elves in the finals of an unusual Open. Excellent performance! Everybody in this thread should watch replays of his games. And try to ignore goofball Patrick Chapin.

[CookedChestnuts]

I don't get why Chapin is so stubborn about Lands. It's been a deck (albeit, not a staple, but a deck that is very much real, and adaptable) for over five years now. He makes it seem like Bobby is the "bad guy" for not wanting his opponents strategies to go unmolested (via things like Engineered Explosives, Maze of Ith, Chalice of the Void, Glacial Chasm to sway the matchup in his favor). It was a pretty decent meta call, seeing how Sneak Attack (unless they have Emrakul), or Reanimator have a tough time beating Maze of Iths, and other decks can't deal with it's versatility. Look at the finals for example. Caleb either had to go off immediately, within the first three turns, or his opponent will either resolve a Manabond + Ensnaring Bridge, one of two Engineered Explosives, Glacial Chasm, Tabernacle, Chalice of the Void, or Trinisphere. To be honest, the only deck that he wouldn't be able to beat in the top8 was Dredge.

Good job Bobby!

[cuthbertthecat]

I don't get why Chapin is so stubborn about Lands. It's been a deck (albeit, not a staple, but a deck that is very much real, and adaptable) for over five years now. He makes it seem like Bobby is the "bad guy" for not wanting his opponents strategies to go unmolested (via things like Engineered Explosives, Maze of Ith, Chalice of the Void, Glacial Chasm to sway the matchup in his favor). It was a pretty decent meta call, seeing how Sneak Attack (unless they have Emrakul), or Reanimator have a tough time beating Maze of Iths, and other decks can't deal with it's versatility. Look at the finals for example. Caleb either had to go off immediately, within the first three turns, or his opponent will either resolve a Manabond + Ensnaring Bridge, one of two Engineered Explosives, Glacial Chasm, Tabernacle, Chalice of the Void, or Trinisphere. To be honest, the only deck that he wouldn't be able to beat in the top8 was Dredge.

Good job Bobby!

Even the dredge matchup is insane; they have a hard time when you get chasm or bridge going, and postboard you get crypt+ruins, a fun and interactive combination.

As far as his list goes, I can't say I agree with the lack of e-tutor, but the raven's crimes do go a long way in helping the combo matchup.

Anyway, congrats Bobby, it's great to see lands do well.

[feline]

I saw that Lands -vs- Affinity matchup earlier, that was just nuts, I really thought "o man, affinity dropping its whole hand in the first 2 turns, how will lands answer that" but it did and it did just fine! Grats to Lands getting a first, Awesome to see the deck is still a force out there not to be ignored!

[Serbitar]

Nice to see Lands win.

(Although the keep g2 of the finals and the Exploration-into-Daze-Tabernacle-Mongoose-play vs. Delver made me cringe – the latter because he had Wasteland in hand and could have played Mox, Wasteland, Exploration, Tabernacle, waste.)

The real question though for me is: Do Raven's Crimes make the matchups against High Tide and Storm any more winnable? (Do you reliably find one and enough B to make it matter in time?)

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Nice to see Lands win.

(Although the keep g2 of the finals and the Exploration-into-Daze-Tabernacle-Mongoose-play vs. Delver made me cringe – the latter because he had Wasteland in hand and could have played Mox, Wasteland, Exploration, Tabernacle, waste.)

The real question though for me is: Do Raven's Crimes make the matchups against High Tide and Storm any more winnable? (Do you reliably find one and enough B to make it matter in time?)

Belcher: only on the play
ANT: Yes
High tide: Kinda
TES: yes

When people see Manabond or exploration, they assume they have all the time in the world to kill you. This becomes another circumstantial Intuition Pile (Life from the Loam/Raven's Crime/Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth). Raven's Crime was MVP Against Maverick, Team America, and RUG.. I like having more than one copy, because it just wins games when it begins to go crazy. It gets sided out almost every match, but not because it is weak, but because you completely destroy your opponent with it, and casting Intuitions, They will go as low as siding in Leyline of Sanctity's. After GP Indy, I switched to E-Tutor, with totem - copied cuthbertthecat's list, because it looked good for the amount of maverick that had been around (and bant). Truth be told, the format has turned into a very Esper Blade/RUG Delver/UW Miracle/Sneak and Show format recently, and although Bridge is good against Sneak and Show, I find E. Tutor to be strictly worse. I top 2 Split an event in Erie 3 weeks ago, beating Hypergenesis in the Top 8, and Beating Sneak and Show in the Top 4. Raven's Crime is so good against those decks. You Mox, waste, crime, they pretty much just mulled to 5... enough about my Raven's Crime Rant though... lol

[cuthbertthecat]

Belcher: only on the play
ANT: Yes
High tide: Kinda
TES: yes

When people see Manabond or exploration, they assume they have all the time in the world to kill you. This becomes another circumstantial Intuition Pile (Life from the Loam/Raven's Crime/Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth). Raven's Crime was MVP Against Maverick, Team America, and RUG.. I like having more than one copy, because it just wins games when it begins to go crazy. It gets sided out almost every match, but not because it is weak, but because you completely destroy your opponent with it, and casting Intuitions, They will go as low as siding in Leyline of Sanctity's. After GP Indy, I switched to E-Tutor, with totem - copied cuthbertthecat's list, because it looked good for the amount of maverick that had been around (and bant). Truth be told, the format has turned into a very Esper Blade/RUG Delver/UW Miracle/Sneak and Show format recently, and although Bridge is good against Sneak and Show, I find E. Tutor to be strictly worse. I top 2 Split an event in Erie 3 weeks ago, beating Hypergenesis in the Top 8, and Beating Sneak and Show in the Top 4. Raven's Crime is so good against those decks. You Mox, waste, crime, they pretty much just mulled to 5... enough about my Raven's Crime Rant though... lol

I mostly agree; for larger tournaments crime is probably right. I'm gonna start testing a build similar to the winning list with crimes and the like, I might still try to get e-tutor in there somewhere though. On a sidenote, are you Bobby?

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

haha.. fortunately, I am. I was going to post a report later this week, but I guess for now, The matchups were like:
R1 - Goblins - 2-1
R2 - Maverick - 2-1
R3 Maverick - 1-2
R4 - RUG Delver - 2-0
R5 - Team America - 2-0
R6 - Maverick - 2-0
R7 - BW Stoneblade - 2-0
R8 - Affinity - 2-0
R9 - Affinity - 2-0
R10 - RUG Delver - 2-1
R11 - Elves - 2-1

Ravens Crime did not do a whole lot, since the lack of control decks I played against... But what I will say: everyone has those slow hands, with Ensnaring Bridge, but You have a lack of acceleration, and you keep drawing non land cards, and You need to get to 0 cards in hand. I Raven's Crimed lands out of my own hand, and won 2 games just on that. I did miss E-Tutor against Maverick, but Cursed Totem is such a dead card against A LOT of matchups, and Intuition is so powerful. I had very good Matchups, I played very good, I only made 2 mistakes the whole day, and My draws were not bad either. I would not make any changes after playing that on Sunday. not even the Sideboard. Raven's Crime solves the Mind Sculptor problem, and was put in before Rhode Island, to Stop Mental Mistep, and It has done so well since then, I cannot take it out. MUC with B2B, Enchantress, MUD, Hive Mind, Tendrils, Belcher, Sneak, UW Blade, RUG Delver, Junk Decks, Elves (if early enough), Maverick, Bant, all of these decks Ravens Crime helps more than people think. You start with 1 land in hand, they draw. they play or pass, you dredge loam, makem' discard, then not have to worry about them countering, playin tricks, etc, and just repeat. Gets StP out of the Hand when you're pressed to kill them, and When you have O. Stone or EE on Board, and they are holding cards back waiting on you, You get ravens crime out of no where, and make them discard their hand. There is so much going on with your deck, and too many things they worry about, Once you dredge it, It will slip their mind 2-3 turns later. Plus people just concede when they cant do anything.. I am not saying E-Tutor is bad. Its just not right ATM. I ravens Crimed an opponent T1 last year in Indy, and he discarded Jin Gitaxis (I still won the game & match)... so you do have to play moderately unaggressive at first... :frown:

[TraxDaMax]

Hi, may I ask why you don't play entomb? Personally I love it as a way to fetch raven's crime or loam or any recurrable card.

[movingtonewao]

haha.. fortunately, I am. I was going to post a report later this week, but I guess for now, The matchups were like:
R1 - Goblins - 2-1
R2 - Maverick - 2-1
R3 Maverick - 1-2
R4 - RUG Delver - 2-0
R5 - Team America - 2-0
R6 - Maverick - 2-0
R7 - BW Stoneblade - 2-0
R8 - Affinity - 2-0
R9 - Affinity - 2-0
R10 - RUG Delver - 2-1
R11 - Elves - 2-1



No combo all day long except elves? Thats a sweet run :)

[Water_Wizard]

@ Bobby - What did you keep G2 of the Finals?

@ Everyone - What decks do Dark Confidants come in against? I was a bit surprised to see them against the Elves match, because it seems like we could kill ourselves from decking/damage. I understand we could rebuy EE with Academy Ruins to constantly place a 0 on top. Thanks for your help :)

[Serbitar]

I would say Confidant comes in every time your opponent isn't super aggressive (damage wise) and you expect him to have hate for Loam.
I board Confidants against Control and Combo, but also against Aggrodecks without burn like Merfolk (esp. when I expect Surgical Extraction) and Maverick. I would not board them vs. Zoo, Dredge (because they generally do not hate on Loam and Confidant is too slow), Burn, RUG.

Edit: Nowadays, people tend to know you have them (especially at regional tournaments). So there is this subgame of sometimes not boarding them, if you feel they are going to keep their Swords to Plowshares.

[Water_Wizard]

Okay, thanks. Makes perfect sense. As a LftL alternative (figuring you'll draw mostly 0's and that you've got Zuran Orb to get you out in a pinch). Thanks!

[Phelix]

what looking for these games at ggslive website, but its down. any1 have link to the lands.dec top8 matches?

[TraxDaMax]

Comment on the final, first game. I was just as su rprised as Chapin to see Glacial Chasm to land that turn it did, instead of tabernacle. But after thinking about it, I must say well played. You succesfully played around crop rotation this way!

[Snapback]

what looking for these games at ggslive website, but its down. any1 have link to the lands.dec top8 matches?

The twitch.tv archive for scglive will have the entire coverage available.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

@ Bobby - What did you keep G2 of the Finals?
)

My hand was Tolaria West, Mox Diamond, Chalice, Dark Confidant, Life from the Loam, Crucible, and Exploration. If my top card was a mana producing land, I would have stood a chance, but I did not see a land until the 3rd draw, so I just did nto play anything, to try and hide any cards that might make him re-sideboard. It was very awkward, but ehhh, what ya gonna do..

[Water_Wizard]

Thanks for the response - I figured as such (that you kept a hand with Mox Diamond), but then I was wondering why you didn't play it, and I thought maybe you were afraid it would be blown up by Viridian Shaman, but it was to hide information.

Well done. What are the odds? 42 lands : 53 cards = you think you could peel one.

Any thoughts on playing the Exploration turn 1 so if you draw a land turn 2, you can Chalice for 1?

[door]

My hand was Tolaria West, Mox Diamond, Chalice, Dark Confidant, Life from the Loam, Crucible, and Exploration. If my top card was a mana producing land, I would have stood a chance, but I did not see a land until the 3rd draw, so I just did nto play anything, to try and hide any cards that might make him re-sideboard. It was very awkward, but ehhh, what ya gonna do..

Congrats on your finish! Your list looks beautiful. I was playtesting raven's crime a lot previously, but couldn't manage a proper list. And here it is.

Already tried it in my local meta. Went 4-0. Didn't loose a game. My matches were
reanimator, merfolks, maverik x2

I was surprised to find that the list runs 61 card, but I guess it's fine for lands.dec.

Just gentle tweaks: I switched 1 cycling land to Cabal Pit. In sb I switched 2 trinisphere for a tormod's crypt and a krosan reclamanation. I have poor experience with the spheres. Also wanted to have some extra against Reanimator. Reclamanation also saves our loam from Surgical Extr.

"+": The confidants performed outstanding
"-": Only 2 Tar Pits to win with felt uncomfortable. Both of them were stp'ed in the first game against maverik and I thought my last chance was to win by decking my opp with Academy Ruins, but luckily he surrendered.

[Keiichi.the.Otaku]

"-": Only 2 Tar Pits to win with felt uncomfortable. Both of them were stp'ed in the first game against maverik and I thought my last chance was to win by decking my opp with Academy Ruins, but luckily he surrendered.

A way to mitigate this circumstance is to make sure you have a Wasteland or Ghost Quarter or Zuran Orb active to save your Tar-pit when it's targeted. You can always get it back...

[ESG]

What are the odds? 42 lands : 53 cards = you think you could peel one.

There were 36 lands in the deck. Still unlikely to whiff, but statistically a lot more likely than 42 lands.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

"-": Only 2 Tar Pits to win with felt uncomfortable. Both of them were stp'ed in the first game against maverik and I thought my last chance was to win by decking my opp with Academy Ruins, but luckily he surrendered.

Most of everybody's lists run 1 I thought. I always ran 2, because of that problem. Like Otaku said, just have a way to eliminate the tar pit. Raven's crime makes playing around STP very easy late game. Also, don't tell anyone if you have no way to kill them. just make them surrender.. Look at the top 8 coverage, I did not physically attempt the Affinity player, the RUG player, or even Elves Game 1. People usually just give up. Also, sost of the time you don't want to activate the Creeping Tar Pit until you have Complete Lock.


Comment on the final, first game. I was just as su rprised as Chapin to see Glacial Chasm to land that turn it did, instead of tabernacle. But after thinking about it, I must say well played. You succesfully played around crop rotation this way!

It was a toss up. I have played against elves a lot (unfortunately). If I stick Tabernacle that turn, they pay for guys, draw, and then use the Quirion Ranger/Symbiote ability, untap their lands and creatures, and then proceed to kill you once they get the Gaea's Cradle. Elves has transformed into a deck that if you have enchantment control (like Solitary Confinement/Moat), they have no outs MB anymore. This is the same logic I use with Glacial Chasm. 14 lands, 2 Cradles, they have no room for a wasteland, or anything to bounce land, and they took out Qasali Pridemage for Shaman (since Cursed Totem shuts off everything they do).

Also, playing against Maverick 3 times was terrible without the E-Tutor Package, and Cursed Totem. If you struggle against Maverick, this is what you do:

Get Tabernacle
Get Maze of Ith
Get Crucible
Kill them

lol, not too much logic. I fought through 2 Scaveging Oozes from all 3 Opponents on game 1, then one of the guys had 3 Oozes MB (ouch), but you just have to play around things they can potentially do. Get an Intuition, and a Loam, and even if they T3-T4 Ooze, I would sacrifice Loam to accel more lands, just to get the advantage. Its rough. I lost my only match to an Aven Mindsensor+Scaveging Ooze.

The deck is not perfect, but it is getting better. So If you drop a cycle land for a cabal pit, and remove 3Sphere for Crypt, and it pans out, post it and why. The Metagames are all different, and The sideboard flux's 5 Cards (1 Chalice, 2 Sphere, 1 Totem, and EE). I cant do Cabal Pit, just because of the Threshold thing, and I don't like circumstansial scenarios. Seems good though

We'll I'm gonna go try and win an Imperial Seal with this deck. :)

[door]

Most of everybody's lists run 1 I thought. I always ran 2, because of that problem. Like Otaku said, just have a way to eliminate the tar pit. Raven's crime makes playing around STP very easy late game. Also, don't tell anyone if you have no way to kill them. just make them surrender.. Look at the top 8 coverage, I did not physically attempt the Affinity player, the RUG player, or even Elves Game 1. People usually just give up. Also, sost of the time you don't want to activate the Creeping Tar Pit until you have Complete Lock.

Alright, that makes sence.



The deck is not perfect, but it is getting better. So If you drop a cycle land for a cabal pit, and remove 3Sphere for Crypt, and it pans out, post it and why. The Metagames are all different, and The sideboard flux's 5 Cards (1 Chalice, 2 Sphere, 1 Totem, and EE). I cant do Cabal Pit, just because of the Threshold thing, and I don't like circumstansial scenarios. Seems good though


Mostly that's a metagame choice. We have more aggro/burn here and less RUG/storm combo.
In my experience cycling lands are better postboard for saving loam from surgicals. In my board krosan reclamanation compensates the loss of 1 thicket. Cabal Pit is the best removal in our deck in turms of cost and recycling ability against lots of small creatures, incl. delver. Reanimator is much more popular and dangerous nowadays than storm, that's why I prefer graveyard hate over trinispheres. Though, the spheres also work well against them, there's no enough space for everything. And the most important part in that match up is during the first 3 turns, when you either drop//search for chalice/crypt/bridge or loose.

Also if it's not difficult, could you tell what you usually side out other than the raven's crimes?
In my case I take out "silverbullit lands" if they are useless in the current m/u: Bojuka bog/Karakas, also Urborg if I take out the Crimes. Tabernacle/1-2Mazes against creature-light m/u. Then there's an interesting part. Most of the times I take out Manabonds, as I'm going to keep and cast more spells from my hand postboard and operate less with g/y thanks to opponents g/y hate.

p.s.: just realised that I read oblivion stone instead of oblivion ring in your list :tongue: The stone performed wonderful, though.

[Serbitar]

He has Oblivion Stone (as you see in one of the matches on camera) – Oblivion Ring is a mistake in the covered decklist.

[Stoyrm]

Played the deck to a 3-0 swiss here the other day. Beat Enchantress (maindeck oblivion stone SO GOOD), Burn (lucky zuran orb :D) and Maverick (Cursed Totem is pretty good, but not always enough :D). I am thinking of going for the double tar pit plan soon, it seems a bit better than my random mishra's factory that doesn't get through.

[Philipp2293]

It seems like Phelix is leading the standings at GP Gent after Round 12 with Lands. At least I assume it's him, how many Lands players named Felix can there be in Denmark :laugh:

[Anen]

Sounds like Lands (with Worms Harvest? ) to me. From the coverage :cool:

http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2012/29/1342970794-php6nQle4image.png (http://www.noelshack.com/2012-29-1342970794-php6nQle4image.jpeg)
http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2012/29/1342970808-phpgS3IZPimage.png (http://www.noelshack.com/2012-29-1342970808-phpgS3IZPimage.jpeg)
http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2012/29/1342970835-phpuqrPh5image.png (http://www.noelshack.com/2012-29-1342970835-phpuqrPh5image.jpeg)
http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2012/29/1342970835-phpTfajUsimage.png (http://www.noelshack.com/2012-29-1342970835-phpTfajUsimage.jpeg)
http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2012/29/1342970928-phpyqyVF2image.png (http://www.noelshack.com/2012-29-1342970928-phpyqyVF2image.jpeg)

If he had won the last round, I would have top 8 :(
But nice 16th place out of 1343 anyway !

[GoldenCid]

Seem good days for lands!! Went 3-1 this weekend beating Merfolk, Elves and Reanimator; loosing to wishless belcher.

This is the list:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
1 [JU] Riftstone Portal
1 [SOM] Forest (1)
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [DK] Maze of Ith
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [FUT] Tolaria West
2 [R] Tropical Island
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [DIS] Breeding Pool
2 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
1 [M10] Gargoyle Castle

// Spells
1 [IA] Zuran Orb
4 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [TE] Intuition
4 [US] Exploration
1 [EX] Manabond
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [MR] Mindslaver
1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
3 [SH] Mox Diamond
1 [MR] Oblivion Stone
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [MI] Cursed Totem
SB: 1 [ISD] Witchbane Orb


Some comments. I used to use just 2 fetchlands and going up to 4 was pretty good. Color screw as almost absent.
The main disadvantage is that the deck wins very very slow (got double 1-0 in rounds 2 and 3). That is very heavy for the opo but for us two.
I'm thinking on adding Worm Harvest to a faster victory.
Oblivion stone was so good...smashed iona and thouhands of merfolks. Mover over it works under Gaddock Teeg unlike EE or N. Disk. The MVP of the day with no doubt.
Crucible of Words was meh...i think that i have the slot for harvest there.

On the side, loved Tormod's Crypt over Surgical. The combination with Bojuka and it recursiveness was very important against reanimator.

On belcher match up i'd have loved run Crop Rotation for destroying all the 12 turn 1 tokens with Tnacle. I could do almost nothing in the MU. Use 8 hate cards but i didnt see anyone. After round played two additional games againt it winning just one where i got Mindbreak Trap and a Chalice @0.

All in all the deck was pretty solid all day but i missed a 2nd manabond when exploration was discarded or countered.

Any comment???

THx!!!


Sounds like Lands (with Worms Harvest? ) to me. !

Yeah and Sylvan Library¿?¿?

GC.

[Phelix]

Hi Guys

Yeah, it was me playing lands (again).

I may well make a report soon, but only got back from belgium 2 hours ago.
8-0-1 Day one. Finished 12-2-2. Needed 1 win or 2 draws during last two rounds. Failed with Draw, loss. (punted final match like tool) Finished 16th of 1345.

List:
Instant [3]
3 Intuition

Sorcery [5]
4 Life from the Loam
1 Worm Harvest

Artifact [10]
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mox Diamond
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Smokestack
1 Zuran Orb

Enchantment [6]
4 Exploration
1 Manabond
1 Sylvan Library

Land [37]
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
4 Maze of Ith
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Riftstone Portal
4 Rishadan Port
1 Savannah
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tropical Island
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant
2 Gilded Drake
1 Raven's Crime
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Cursed Totem
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tormod's Crypt


When my brain starts working again, ill totally write something more sensible.

NB: Had many cool comments about deck, cards while playing. Also: Many players had to read my cards, even late in day two :):laugh::tongue:

[Razorwynd]

Hi Guys


When my brain starts working again, ill totally write something more sensible.



can not wait!

[Julian23]

You actually make me consider picking the deck up again. Great finish! Congratulations, you have me a crapload of goosebumps when my friends told me there was a Lands.dec in Top8 competition.

[Megadeus]

How much does the average Lands deck cost to build? It looks so fun to play...

[civet five]

How much does the average Lands deck cost to build? It looks so fun to play...

from total scratch? A lot.

A few duals
Karakas
Tabernacle
Rishadan Port
Wasteland
Mox Diamond
Maze of Ith
Exploration

etc etc. Run a quick price check on tcgplayer or something - I wouldn't be surprised to find it pushing 1500 from scratch.

[Anen]

How much does the average Lands deck cost to build? It looks so fun to play...

Lands cost approximately the same than a "typical" legacy deck. The problem is that it uses expensive cards that are only in this decks, Tabernacle, Maze, Exploration, Rishadan and Mox, to name a few..
http://www.mtgpulse.com/event/9421#128904
Stoneblade 1700$, Show and Tell 1500$, Countertop 1400$, Maverick 1100$, Landstill 1300$, Junk 1200$, RUG 1500$, Bant 1500$, Lands 1600$


Also: Many players had to read my cards, even late in day two :)
My Lands deck is 2/3 japanese (missing loam and waste, and ports are german) and I can't count the number of time people asked to see an oracle text. I understand your feeling ^^

Waiting for the report !

[Phelix]

from total scratch? A lot.

A few duals
Karakas
Tabernacle
Rishadan Port
Wasteland
Mox Diamond
Maze of Ith
Exploration

etc etc. Run a quick price check on tcgplayer or something - I wouldn't be surprised to find it pushing 1500 from scratch.


According to Mtgpulse.com, this version costs 1555 $ - but im not sure where they get their values from.

I forgot my notes at work, but will write an actual report during the weekend.


I have been playing lands for a long time. I dont play it at every little tournament, but whenever I feel like its a good metagame choice, I pick up my little baby again. I also play it quite a lot on cockatrice, to test new and often silly ideas.

As I think I mentioned last year, I even played versions with 14 artifacts in the board (4xsmokestack, 4 chalice, 4 Trinisphere), two different versions with valakut and an amusing version that played brainstorm maindeck, and sideboarded into sneak/emrakul :P - Btw dredge and Brainstorm is pretty bananas!

As the metagame shifted more and more away from stormcombo, and slowly even show and tell became less popular, I started considering playing Lands @ Ghent. Looking at both scg T16 decks, as well as scouring european GPTrial decklists I made a gauntlet looking roughly like this:

RUG
UW blade decks
Anything else with delvers
Anything with equiptment
Anything with less than 6 basic lands
Miracles
Sneak(show)
Reanimator
Tribal aggro decks (since both merfolk and goblins are sweet matchups)
Elves
Maverick
BUG-JUNK-other midrange decks with failing manabases.

Looking at this gauntlet, lands seemed like an obvious choice.

(Hi tide and storm combo where largely ignored, and not expected. )

The challenging matchups are:

Miracles, if they play 6+ basics
Sneakshow
Combo Elves

Against these 4 types i have plenty of game, but im not heavily favoured.

Against everything else, im a decent favorite.

Playing against decks with just a few basic lands, often become autowins. And nothing sets me more at ease, than seeing stoneforge mystic. This means my opponent will be doing nothing for 3 turns, after wich maze of ith gives me a triple timewalk.


A few weeks before Ghent, Bobby Kovacs won scg Detroit with this list:

<script type="text/javascript" src="http://mtgpulse.com/embeddeck.php?size=normal&did=121326&width=800&bgcolor=FFFFFF"></script>

Being vastly different from what I was playing at the time, I tested it, and was very uncomfortable with its inablitlity to end games. But I was very much impressed with Creeping tar pit, and its ability to kill jace, and race opponents board, when accompanied by Maze of Ith.

Changed made to my list withing 3 weeks og Ghent:

Maindeck
Added:
Creeping Tar pit (Thnx Bobby)
Sylvan Library (had been tested at a smaller event)
Wurm Harvest


Removed:
Cabal Pit
Mindslaver
Intuition (number 4)

Board:
Removed:
Krosan Grip
Storm hate cards

Added:
Gilded Drakes
Ravens Crime
Ensnaring Bridge

I removed cabal pit, since having 2 damage dealing lands was uncomfortable, and the number of desired target for the pit was really low (mainly Thalia)

With these changes I felt more equipped to fight the field I was expecting. With extra compies of Ensnaring Bridge and Explosives, I would rely a little less on things not being extirpated when i Intuition for them, as well as increased likelyhood of simply drawing them.

Strategy:

This deck doesnt lose to combat damage.

This is generally true, and whenever I identify an opponent with this strategy, I can stop focusing on stopping him, and start focusing on WTH he can do to stop me (like ooze, Bojukabog, wasteland).

Decks with wastelands are tricky. Even though having someone wasteland my initial land is super lols - since they just gave me card advantage, it also means that I can expect to be safe behind a Maze or glacial chasm.

Example:
During day two, I played against Maverick. He opened w. stoneforge mystic, and I had a bunch of lands quickly (doh). Instead of going for Maze, I developed my manabase to ensure that I could play spells later, since currently damage output was super low. This allowed me to play Oblivion Stone with 5 mana, and THEN follow up with land drops of Maze, Maze. Giving me something like 5 timewalks while my opponent could only attack for 1 or 2 damage a turn, but also didnt want to overcommit into oblivion stone.

Had I gone for the Maze right away, I would take 8-10 less damage, but also be unable to actively combat whatever else he was doing.

All the new additions I made, made a difference, but especially Wurm Harvest. It allowed me to go for quick wins, to fight jaces trough 2 blockers easy, and to ignore when I had an opponent play vedalken shackles. Intuition piles of Wurm Harvest, Tranquil thicket, Tranquil Thicket were quite awesome. Shifting tempo like this hasnt been possible prior.

Sylvan Library was super good too, but I think Id like to see if I can add another fetchland. 3 Intuition, 2 Fetchlands (with recursions), dredge, ghost quarter, transmute and Zuran Orb all have good synergy with this card. Since you can afford to use quite a lot of life to draw cards too, your more like to get a good setup playing 2+ lands a turn.


Didnt miss at all:

Mindslaver.


Eh.. post got a little long. Perhaps Brain isnt quite online yet. Would like to debate deck further. Its my baby.

Disclaimer: May have misspelled and missed obvious stuff.

[door]

I forgot my notes at work, but will write an actual report during the weekend.


first of all congrats on your great finish. I can't wait to see your actual report.

A couple of "why" on your list.

- Was a single copy of Manabond worth it?
- you play riftstone portal and savannah only for celestial colonnade. Woudn't it be better to switch entirely for tar pit and eliminate these white producing lands?
- how did smokestack perform?
- how did gilded drake perform?

Thanks!

[Phelix]

- Was a single copy of Manabond worth it?
- you play riftstone portal and savannah only for celestial colonnade. Woudn't it be better to switch entirely for tar pit and eliminate these white producing lands?
- how did smokestack perform?
- how did gilded drake perform?

Thanks!

Manabond: Yes. I think 5 Exploration is a good number. This also makes it possible to Intuition for 3 exploration more often. 6 Can also be the right number, but I didnt feel like i had the room, exspecially with so many less synergetic cards in the sideboard.

White Mana: Riftstone portal is not just for Colonnade. It performs as unwastable urborg. Having a bunch of lands that produce no, or little mana. Riftstone was important for me many times while playing life from the loam several times in a turn, and for getting 4 sunburt on engineered explosives. I basically play 1 savannah to activate colonnade. I think its wort it. Considering that Colonnade kills Delver, mongoose and lives.

Smokestack: Was totally awesome. If played smokestack maindeck for at least 3 years now. If i had to play tomorrow, i might even ad 1-2 to the sideboard. It kills basicslands, races jace, laughs at counterbalance and has synergy with your gameplan. Totally love that card.

Gilded Drake: got boarded in a couple of times. I should probably be playing 3, due to intuition. Against Sneak show it got revealed w. Confidant, prompting my opponent to shift stategies and bought me a couple of turns. I think it deserves a spot. I never cast the card, so cant tell you much more than this.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Congrats to Phelix. Its about time we all start putting this deck back on the map.

I do not like the Colonnade.... seems very mana intensive, and can still be blocked. and You may be pushing for the colors early. I would hate to have to fetch a white when so manythings require Blue.

2 Tolaria Wests seems a little less than spectacular. The card gets any land - this can be used to match maverick or reanimator with Maze of Iths, or getting the Zuran Orb for Burn, Or the explosives for the Mongoose...

Gilded Drake has been on the Radar as a sideboard spot, but there is a lot of Back to Basics and Blood Moons flowing around the area, and I would hate to cut Krosan Grip. The singleton Cursed Totem has been cut from my board off and on, but I (personally) cannot justify losing Krosan Grip - So Good...

I Cannot wait for a Tourney Report!

[Phelix]

do not like the Colonnade.... seems very mana intensive, and can still be blocked. and You may be pushing for the colors early. I would hate to have to fetch a white when so manythings require Blue.

2 Tolaria Wests seems a little less than spectacular. The card gets any land - this can be used to match maverick or reanimator with Maze of Iths, or getting the Zuran Orb for Burn, Or the explosives for the Mongoose...

Gilded Drake has been on the Radar as a sideboard spot, but there is a lot of Back to Basics and Blood Moons flowing around the area, and I would hate to cut Krosan Grip. The singleton Cursed Totem has been cut from my board off and on, but I (personally) cannot justify losing Krosan Grip - So Good...

The cost of Colonnade is two things:
1 Savannah
1 Comes into play tapped land.

Nothing more. You mentioned fetching for savannah, when you need blue. This never happened to me, ever. Not in testing for in any tournament i ever played this deck in. Since you need the blue early(and also for blue for activating the colonnade) you of course search for it first. You also never activate colonnade until the lategame, so I really this its a non-issue regarding color. But Savannah and Cip land can be debated, and not playing these cards could be correct in some metagames.

Tolaria West: you hose the card, then come up with a bunch of reasons why its amazing. I really like uncounterable tutors. This is the real thing. Zuran orb, cycle lands, Engineered Explosives, Karakas, wastelands, maze, mox - whatever you ned, tolaria provides really. And tutoring for mox is correct every now and then.

Gilded Drake: If there is a lot of blood moon and back to basics in your local metagame (since it seems to be abscent from the GPs and SCG) I dont recommend playing lands at all.

Krosan Grip really isnt a solid solution for either enchantment, more so for counterbalance, in my opinion.

On a sidenote, I played the deck again today:

Changes to SB:
-2 gilded drake
-1 engineered explosives
+3 Ethersworn Canonist.

Went 4-0 Beating:
Goblins
RUG delver
Nic Fit
Belcher

SB changes were metagame calls, also i couldnt find the second explosives :P

[bartmanqc]

Hey ! I'm a Walker Stax player and Lands is exactly the kind of deck that I love to play.

I have a question for you guys. How would be Jace 2.0 in this deck? Seems like a really nice kill condition once u've estlablished the lock... Plus, I can imagine that Jace is a card that u might have a hard time to beat without Creeping Tar Pit online, so you could legend rule him as an answer.

P.S. Sorry if this has alreay been discussed.. didnt read all the tread :)

[Phelix]

Having jace in play is good for any deck in legacy.

But alas, he is hard to cast, cant be tutored well for.

I think he needs brainstorm.

In this version of lands we play 5 resonable answers to jace (aside from mishras factory) in oblivion stone, engineered explosives, wurm harvest, celestial colonnade, and creepting tar pit. I think thats allright.

[Phelix]

Part 1 of Report is up:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24313-GP-Ghent-16th-with-Lands.dec-(part-1)&p=660937#post660937

[TraxDaMax]

Hey I saw you play in Ghent :)
Another belgian lands player alarmed me of a player at the top tables when I was there.

Some personal notes:

Glad people are realizing Wurm Harvest is really, really good in this deck. And Mindslaver is not.

Celestial Colonnade was a neat choice. Thought of it, never tried it though. The other player and I were
only kind of doubting how good Sylvan Library is without Enlightened Tutor. And apparently the ruling on it
with Life from the Loam is something to get a headache from :D I actually forgot how it worked together.

I too, only used 1 Manabond in my list when I played it a couple months ago.
But I do opt for 3 copies of Tolaria West. Like you said, it gets you everything.
I always want it in my first ten cards. And I straight up win games for having it.





Anyways, grats with your performance! I think I might have been able to pull off a better
end if I had sleeved up my Exploration's too..

[cuthbertthecat]

Considering picking this deck up on MTGO, if I did, would people be interested in videos?

[movingtonewao]

I would. always nice to see lands in action.

[Dissolution]

As would I, as I've also been wanting to get 43 lands on MTGO. I'm curious if the clock ends up posing a problem.
-T

[cuthbertthecat]

As would I, as I've also been wanting to get 43 lands on MTGO. I'm curious if the clock ends up posing a problem.
-T

I'm curious too, the deck has too many options to be able to f6 safely most of the time.

[Julian23]

You should ask mchain about it, he used to play it a lot on MODO. From what I remember, against decks with creatures, Tabernacle ate away a lot of their time since they control the triggers.

[mistercakes]

i have lands on modo, and it's fine. as long as you play fast you should be okay on time. i wouldn't recommend multitasking during the matches though. vs the fast decks and the combo decks you should finish with at least 10 minutes left if you know what you're doing. the games that take the longest for you are when you are multiple porting each turn while you develop.

[ra_2_soldier]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed in depth or not but a couple months ago I picked up the deck without playing competetive magic in over a year (cube drafted a bit) and took it to an scg open. I grabbed the latest list posted in this forum and made a couple teaks the biggest being adding batterskull. I very much liked the addition seeing as I can recur it with tapping 3 or academy ruins and can be tutored for with both e-tutor and in an intuition pile. It give us a quick finisher and some additional lifegain (although it may not be necessary). It saved me from going to time in 2 games mostly because i havnt played the deck in so long but I very much like the addition. I might be throwing the deck together for scg dc this weekend and would like to see if any of you who test and play more regularly have tested or have any thoughts on this. p.s. I ended up going 3-2 drop in the open i played in due to the sole fact I could not get a cursed totum to run so i ran meekstone insted which was a rediculous thought of a replacement card. Both matches were lost to very close games to maverick upon which I lost to the combination of scavenging ooze and knight of the reliquary getting wasteland........

[cuthbertthecat]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed in depth or not but a couple months ago I picked up the deck without playing competetive magic in over a year (cube drafted a bit) and took it to an scg open. I grabbed the latest list posted in this forum and made a couple teaks the biggest being adding batterskull. I very much liked the addition seeing as I can recur it with tapping 3 or academy ruins and can be tutored for with both e-tutor and in an intuition pile. It give us a quick finisher and some additional lifegain (although it may not be necessary). It saved me from going to time in 2 games mostly because i havnt played the deck in so long but I very much like the addition. I might be throwing the deck together for scg dc this weekend and would like to see if any of you who test and play more regularly have tested or have any thoughts on this. p.s. I ended up going 3-2 drop in the open i played in due to the sole fact I could not get a cursed totum to run so i ran meekstone insted which was a rediculous thought of a replacement card. Both matches were lost to very close games to maverick upon which I lost to the combination of scavenging ooze and knight of the reliquary getting wasteland........

I've tried batterskull, it's basically the same as every other big finisher (mindslaver, worm harvest, etc) in that it's not necessary if you play fast and tightly. That said, if you aren't confident in your ability to win quickly with this deck without a finisher effect, then by all means run it. It'll lead to some awkward situations where its in your opening hand or when you need a bullet with a bit more utility, but that's better than the alternative of going to time every round.

[cuthbertthecat]

I've aquired the deck online, Im gonna play a few matches just to figure out how the deck interacts with the MTGO interface, then I'll figure out how to record videos and start recording.

[movingtonewao]

sounds good. Do you have an update on your list? As far as I remember you were piloting an intuition list.

[cuthbertthecat]

sounds good. Do you have an update on your list? As far as I remember you were piloting an intuition list.

My current list is:

3 Intuition
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Life from the Loam
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Cursed Totem
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
4 Mox Diamond
1 Crucible of Worlds

3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Forest
5 G Fetch
4 Maze of Ith
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Tabernacle
1 Academy Ruins
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Karakas
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Ghost Quarter

Sideboard

1 Oblivion Stone
1 Circle of Protection Red/Engineered Explosives (Probably COP Red for MTGO, I expect lots of burn)
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Dark Confidant
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Chalice of the Void

[movingtonewao]

no love for raven's crime? I don't play intuition (went with malacoda's old style) but I figure you could try 1 copy, I believe it could be part of an intuition pile.

[cuthbertthecat]

no love for raven's crime? I don't play intuition (went with malacoda's old style) but I figure you could try 1 copy, I believe it could be part of an intuition pile.

I've considered it, but you'd have to include urborg or up the number of black sources to make it work to its maximum potential, neither of which I've tried to do within my list or have any idea how to include. I think it's a fine card, it just probably can't work in a build trying to support white.

[Phelix]

oblivion stone sideboard, and cursed totem maindeck? I think id swap the two?

either way, looking forward to seeing some video.

[Phelix]

I also agree with you, that the heavier white list will have a hard time supporting Crime.

[cuthbertthecat]

oblivion stone sideboard, and cursed totem maindeck? I think id swap the two?

either way, looking forward to seeing some video.

That may well be right, I like having the mainboard insurance against Scavenging Ooze decks but the Maverick matchup is good enough anyway and elves has viridian shaman for totem so it's sort of irrelevant.

[movingtonewao]

oblivion stone sideboard, and cursed totem maindeck? I think id swap the two?

either way, looking forward to seeing some video.

seconded. cursed totem is win-more for most g1s. videos soon please :)

[bartmanqc]

Quick question: How much does the land deck costs to build on mtgo ?

[cuthbertthecat]

Quick question: How much does the land deck costs to build on mtgo ?

Its around 800 tix, depending on where you look for prices.

On a sidenote, youtube isn't letting me upload any of the videos, does anybody know a better video hosting site for this sort of thing?

[cuthbertthecat]

Here's the first video I've made, I made it pretty late/early so I was a bit tired and played a little sloppily as a result and trailed off when I was talking more than usual.

http://blip.tv/cuthbertthecat/mtgo-legacy-2-man-with-lands-1-6298264

Also, I've played two dailies that I didn't think to record, I could record replays if anybody is interested, although I personally hate watching videos of replays.
Went 2-2 in the first one, losing to timing out against countertop miracles and to food chain, beat burn twice. Went 3-1 in the second one, losing to land tax counterthopters because of a series of mulligans, beating burn twice and maverick.

[Phelix]

was just watching game 2.

you had a very good hand, including 2x chalice and 2/then3/ exploration. But you played thalia?

id rather play exploration, chalice 1, and then at a later time play crucible. the chalice blocks surgical which is your greatest enemy there. it also stops the spellpierce you talk about.

[bartmanqc]

nice vids !! Can't wait to see more

[movingtonewao]

watched your video. the 2 chalices were awesome lol I wish I could draw hands like you.

[Phelix]

<=== Shamelessly selfpromoting part 2 of Ghent Report being up

[TheStorm]

Lands placed 2nd at SCG Kansas City today. Final was pretty sad. Game 1 is a game loss to lands as he forgot to sideboard? Game 3 a jace lands and he is fatesealed out of the game.

So, Jace: if it is such a problem, Im thinking of dropping black for red. While I would lose tar pit from the main, (and bob from the SB), I would gain punishing fire (MD or SB, not sure at this point), and grove of the burnwillows.
Hell, with all of the tutors, I could potentially cut a Tropical Island for a single grove, and between that and the Diamonds, we could have a reasonable answer to Jace.

Again, just brainstorming here. I would love to hear your thoughts.

[movingtonewao]

I'd just like to point out that tar pit is a more than capable jacekiller. Unblockable land that can redirect damage to jace.

[Final Ritual]

Lands placed 2nd at SCG Kansas City today. Final was pretty sad. Game 1 is a game loss to lands as he forgot to sideboard? Game 3 a jace lands and he is fatesealed out of the game.

So, Jace: if it is such a problem, Im thinking of dropping black for red. While I would lose tar pit from the main, (and bob from the SB), I would gain punishing fire (MD or SB, not sure at this point), and grove of the burnwillows.
Hell, with all of the tutors, I could potentially cut a Tropical Island for a single grove, and between that and the Diamonds, we could have a reasonable answer to Jace.

Again, just brainstorming here. I would love to hear your thoughts.

Or just run pithing needle out the board.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Cuthberthecat got 2nd in KC.

[Anen]

Lands placed 2nd at SCG Kansas City today. Final was pretty sad. Game 1 is a game loss to lands as he forgot to sideboard? Game 3 a jace lands and he is fatesealed out of the game.

So, Jace: if it is such a problem, Im thinking of dropping black for red. While I would lose tar pit from the main, (and bob from the SB), I would gain punishing fire (MD or SB, not sure at this point), and grove of the burnwillows.
Hell, with all of the tutors, I could potentially cut a Tropical Island for a single grove, and between that and the Diamonds, we could have a reasonable answer to Jace.

Again, just brainstorming here. I would love to hear your thoughts.

I'd rather play another Jace killer in the person of Oblivion Stone / Worm Harvest / Pithing needle instead of that Cursed Totem. Cursed Totem is only really usefull against Maverick, sometimes Elves and others fringe matchups.
As for dropping black, it is like unimaginable for me. You need those Bobs in order to fight grave hate. Punishing fire doesn't help us against hate, and only improves an already very good matchup (creatures.deck).

[lord09]

Well done cuthbertthecat, I'd love to read a report when you have time and any potential deck changes you may have in mind.

Also, I enjoyed the video, please keep it up.

[cuthbertthecat]

Well done cuthbertthecat, I'd love to read a report when you have time and any potential deck changes you may have in mind.

Also, I enjoyed the video, please keep it up.

Report is up, hope you enjoy it. I should be making a few more videos in the next several days, I'll post them when they're done.

[movingtonewao]

link to report? dont see it.

[cuthbertthecat]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24461-2nd-Place-at-SCG-KC-With-Lands

[movingtonewao]

Love the report! The backstory was particularly fun. 7th layer of hell, word!

I'm beginning to be convinced by intuition. If you remember back then on mtgsalvation I was really iffy about it but now I want to try it.

The thing is, I don't know how to play with it. Can you give me some examples of what you'd usually intuition for in various situations?

Also, when do you board them out?

P.S. what happened to malacoda? Haven't heard from him in a really long while.

[TraxDaMax]

Thanks for the report!

Question though, as I'm not that experienced with the deck.
When playing the deck, Intuition seemed to be a card that would win me atleast a third of my games. Why is it boarded out in most games? My first guess is Surgical Extraction, though I'm just not sure that's why I ask. :) Thanks in advance.

[wally2345]

intuition is boarded out games 2 and 3 along with manabond games 2 and 3 because you want to protect your graveyard. most people will be sideboarding in graveyard hate so you want to be able to maintain your card advantage that is where Bob comes in. Finally after all that you find spots for your board cards against their deck.

to movingtonewao
intuition in game one gives you the ability to get cards in your graveyard to abuse them. Typically piles will be the cards you need for the situation and how in need of them you are. Some examples;

1. Not able to play additional land drops, BUT have a life from the loam. 3 exploration
2. A typical one to get is Loam, T. West, utility land you need. i.e. waste, maze, tabernacle
3. If Loam is in hand/gy already and need to deal with permanents. academy ruins, e.e., cycler or another artifact that cannot be tutored with T. West.

Those were common intuition piles. Mostly it is on the spot what is needed at the time.

[cuthbertthecat]

Love the report! The backstory was particularly fun. 7th layer of hell, word!

I'm beginning to be convinced by intuition. If you remember back then on mtgsalvation I was really iffy about it but now I want to try it.

The thing is, I don't know how to play with it. Can you give me some examples of what you'd usually intuition for in various situations?

Also, when do you board them out?

P.S. what happened to malacoda? Haven't heard from him in a really long while.

A really common Intuition pile is Loam, Tolaria West, and a land that you want. Another one is Loam, Ruins, X artifact that is good. If you have Loam, you can get Ruins, Artifact, Artifact (my favorite is ruins, totem, bridge against maverick). If you fear Vendilion Clique, you can get 2 Loams and a land you want, this lets you have access to a loam even if they let you keep it with Intuition and Clique it away. If you are looking to grind a deck out with Ghost Quarter, Loam Ruins Crucible is a good one. You can use it as demonic tutor by searching for 3 of any card you run 3 or more of, for example Exploration. You almost never want to search for 3 copies of loam, the exception that I've thought of is if you have 5 mana, your glacial chasm is in graveyard, and you're facing lethal attackers/a lethal belcher activation/etc. If you want to recur loam a bunch, say if you have manabond out, you can get loam, thicket, land. If you need a singleton artifact and don't have time to Ruins it back, say when facing a Scavenging Ooze, you can get 3 Enlightened Tutors. If you want to get a Manabond but only play 2, you can search for a manabond and 2 E-tutors, or just 3 E-tutors. If you already have Loam, you can just search for 3 lands that you want, in a similar vein if you have loam and ruins you can search for 3 lands or artifacts that you want. If you run creatures, which I would advise against mainboard, you can search loam, creature, volrath's stronghold. I don't run Stronghold, but sideboarding into something like Primeval Titan and leaving in Intuition sounds cool. Basically, Intuition is super versatile, and I think you lose a lot of angles with this deck by not playing it.

I board it out in every non-dredge, non-punishing maverick matchup. Against Dredge, the potential pile of Loam, Ruins, Crypt is too good to pass up and we have tons of ways to stall the matchup until that happens, and against punishing maverick they probably don't board out their fires so Bob is pretty weak, however most fires lists are cold to the ruins/bridge/totem intuition with a loam active.

Malacoda didn't like how much time he was spending on various forums, so he's taking a break for now. He and I do still talk on Facebook however.


Thanks for the report!

Question though, as I'm not that experienced with the deck.
When playing the deck, Intuition seemed to be a card that would win me atleast a third of my games. Why is it boarded out in most games? My first guess is Surgical Extraction, though I'm just not sure that's why I ask. :) Thanks in advance.

Its partially because of Extraction/Other yard hate, but its also because Bob comes in for most of the matchups where it comes out, and Bob serves the same advantage-generating purpose while dodging potential graveyard hate. Against the decks where Bob doesn't come in (Rug, burn) they either have so much permission that when you resolve your gamebreaking spell it needs to be very hard to interact with or you die (RUG), or you have so much sideboard that you'll draw some and Intuitioning for redundant pieces isn't really necessary (burn).

[bartmanqc]

What if you board in Chalice for Chalice @ 1? Do you leave the intuition in?

[cuthbertthecat]

What if you board in Chalice for Chalice @ 1? Do you leave the intuition in?

It's possible, but the two biggest decks I bring Chalice in against are RUG and Stoneblade, both of which run Spell Pierce which makes Intuition even more awkward when you don't stick a chalice. Against Burn and the like, they probably run relic, so it's unlikely that you'll resolve chalice before they resolve a relic.

[KevinTrudeau]

Here's the first video I've made, I made it pretty late/early so I was a bit tired and played a little sloppily as a result and trailed off when I was talking more than usual.

http://blip.tv/cuthbertthecat/mtgo-legacy-2-man-with-lands-1-6298264

Also, I've played two dailies that I didn't think to record, I could record replays if anybody is interested, although I personally hate watching videos of replays.
Went 2-2 in the first one, losing to timing out against countertop miracles and to food chain, beat burn twice. Went 3-1 in the second one, losing to land tax counterthopters because of a series of mulligans, beating burn twice and maverick.

Just because, here's the same match from the opposing point of view:

http://www.twitch.tv/tommartell/b/327969640

Skip to 53:12.

While you're there, check out the video "The Matt Sperling Affair"; you can find it by clicking on Martell's profile.

Lastly, congrats once again on second place in KC Alex. I actually got work off this Saturday, so I should be able to attend the Big 1.5 at MD.

[Anen]

Just because, here's the same match from the opposing point of view:

http://www.twitch.tv/tommartell/b/327969640

Skip to 53:12.

According to Tom, we are (should be?) playing Thoughtseize, Pernicious deed, Standstill and Jace.
It is nice to see that cuthbertthecat just let him no chance to slam Jace (Tom, g2 your Karakas was tapped, you couldn't have bounce the Thalia to play Jace next turn) and he ends up whining "Lands is miserable" x)

[damionblackgear]

According to Tom, we are (should be?) playing Thoughtseize, Pernicious deed, Standstill and Jace.
It is nice to see that cuthbertthecat just let him no chance to slam Jace (Tom, g2 your Karakas was tapped, you couldn't have bounce the Thalia to play Jace next turn) and he ends up whining "Lands is miserable" x)

To be fair, a lot of lands opponents have the same issue (feel that lands is miserable).

Most people can't figure out how to appreciate a good prison deck (or non-blue counter based deck for that matter). A lot of "Pro(s)" are big on the idea of a "Real" deck. Those deck(s) are exactly what Tom hints at building towards* and feel that people who do not are hindering their chances of winning.

Either way, people will be more begrudged to test against them and learn what to do. That is both a blessing and a curse for the deck as it limits the amount of experienced opponents but also the amount of experienced pilots. Real practice (for this and other decks in similar standings) will typically come in the form of real tournaments. This leads to the idea that the deck is bad or overly complicated for both newer and unfamiliar pilots. It can also give a deck a bad name which leads to less players willing to test the deck overall.

*I haven't watched his side yet, just read your comment.

[cuthbertthecat]

Just because, here's the same match from the opposing point of view:

http://www.twitch.tv/tommartell/b/327969640

Skip to 53:12.

While you're there, check out the video "The Matt Sperling Affair"; you can find it by clicking on Martell's profile.

Lastly, congrats once again on second place in KC Alex. I actually got work off this Saturday, so I should be able to attend the Big 1.5 at MD.

Wow, Tom really has no idea what he's talking about here. Interesting.

Thanks man, I'll hopefully catch you there!


To be fair, a lot of lands opponents have the same issue (feel that lands is miserable).

Most people can't figure out how to appreciate a good prison deck (or non-blue counter based deck for that matter). A lot of "Pro(s)" are big on the idea of a "Real" deck. Those deck(s) are exactly what Tom hints at building towards* and feel that people who do not are hindering their chances of winning.

Either way, people will be more begrudged to test against them and learn what to do. That is both a blessing and a curse for the deck as it limits the amount of experienced opponents but also the amount of experienced pilots. Real practice (for this and other decks in similar standings) will typically come in the form of real tournaments. This leads to the idea that the deck is bad or overly complicated for both newer and unfamiliar pilots. It can also give a deck a bad name which leads to less players willing to test the deck overall.

*I haven't watched his side yet, just read your comment.

You're pretty much spot-on here.

[HammerAndSickled]

Congrats on the finish! Your video a few weeks ago with the Thalia sideboard really got me interested in this deck.

[Sloshthedark]

LOL, average Lands player vs. Platinum Magic Professional
http://sureiscute.com/images/cutepictures/I_Have_No_Idea_What_I_m_Doing.jpg

[TheRedBaron]

So, I see the eTutor Version running well. I play the B splash for Tar pit/Raven Crime. I'm a fairly new at piloting lands. In your repective opinions, How do you guys feel about the splash W v. The splash B versions?


Here is my current list:

3 Intuition
1 Entomb

4 Loam
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Smokestack
1 EExplosives
1 Zuran Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mox Diamond

4 Exploration
2 Mana Bond
1 Raven's Crime

2 T. West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tabernacle
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawg
1 Forest
1 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
3 Trop
4 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Creeping Tar-pit
1 Nantuko Monastery
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
1 Ghost Quarter

//Board
4 Dark Confidant
4 Chalice
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Canonist
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Totem

note: I sometimes swap out the crypt/bridge with a 2nd EE on the board.


I'm just curios on your opinions on the different versions, as I want to take a list to a Star City within a couple of months. I'm pretty successful with the B splash.

[damionblackgear]

According to Tom, we are (should be?) playing Thoughtseize, Pernicious deed, Standstill and Jace.
It is nice to see that cuthbertthecat just let him no chance to slam Jace (Tom, g2 your Karakas was tapped, you couldn't have bounce the Thalia to play Jace next turn) and he ends up whining "Lands is miserable" x)

Had a chance to watch the video. Tom isn't saying that those things should be in the deck. He was streaming the match live and it appears as though he hadn't seen a Lands deck (or list) in a rather long time. The cards suggested where either cards that he thought were in the list or were advised by the chat.

Honestly, he adapted into the theory of what he was playing against pretty well. This is especially true as the list was being revealed/advised pretty much on the fly for him.

This'll be my last post in the thread until I pick up the deck. Just wanted to offer up some thoughts from an outside perspective.

[Julian23]

Currently putting Lands together again. LoL, I feel like the Power Rangers forming the MegaZord.

[HammerAndSickled]

I know Lands typically has an awful combo matchup, but do we have at least a passable one vs. creature-based combo like Reanimator and Sneak and Show? Karakas and ways to tutor it seems like a plan, along with Maze, but Reanimator sometimes runs an Inkwell Leviathan and Maze doesn't stop Emrakul's annihilator. Does anyone have tips on dealing with these matchups?

Also, I don't see why more decks aren't running at least a singleton Mindbreak Trap in the board. The most important part being that it is tutorable with Tolaria West. Along with Chalice of the Void, maybe this could help our storm matchups?

[Anen]

Also, I don't see why more decks aren't running at least a singleton Mindbreak Trap in the board. The most important part being that it is tutorable with Tolaria West.
Trap is NOT tutorable with West. West search for 0 CC and trap's CC is 4.

[Julian23]

I think he was talking about Pact of Negation which still seems awful.

I've said it like 2 years before, when i was playing lands and I'm gonna say it again. In order to deal with combo, Lands needs permanent-based hate.

[Phelix]

mindbreak trap costs 4 mana? how do we tutor for it w. tolaria west?

beating show and tell is possible w. my ghent build.

beating storm combo takes quite a lot of slots, but my amsterdam build beats storm.

(/yes mega pretentious post)

[cuthbertthecat]

I know Lands typically has an awful combo matchup, but do we have at least a passable one vs. creature-based combo like Reanimator and Sneak and Show? Karakas and ways to tutor it seems like a plan, along with Maze, but Reanimator sometimes runs an Inkwell Leviathan and Maze doesn't stop Emrakul's annihilator. Does anyone have tips on dealing with these matchups?

Also, I don't see why more decks aren't running at least a singleton Mindbreak Trap in the board. The most important part being that it is tutorable with Tolaria West. Along with Chalice of the Void, maybe this could help our storm matchups?

Reanimator and sneak show aren't the worst and they're definitely winnable. Its decks like spiral tide and hive mind that are close to unwinnable.

[TraxDaMax]

I think making room for 1 chalice main can help alot of matchups.

[wally2345]

i am assuming you would want chalice md because the combo matchup is horrendous.

The problem with 1 chalice md is choosing to move something to the sideboard. In reality 1 chalice won't help you much game one against ANT, High tide, or other combo decks that go off rather quickly. By the time you are able to dig/tutor for chalice the other deck already has or can go off no matter what.

You are better off waiting for game 2 and 3 and hope thalia's and chalices can hold them off while beating down with Bob.

[cuthbertthecat]

i am assuming you would want chalice md because the combo matchup is horrendous.

The problem with 1 chalice md is choosing to move something to the sideboard. In reality 1 chalice won't help you much game one against ANT, High tide, or other combo decks that go off rather quickly. By the time you are able to dig/tutor for chalice the other deck already has or can go off no matter what.

You are better off waiting for game 2 and 3 and hope thalia's and chalices can hold them off while beating down with Bob.

True, although the single chalice would be good against RUG to assure you don't get bolted out late game. Zuran Orb does that already though.


Also, new video is up here: http://blip.tv/cuthbertthecat/mtgo-legacy-2-man-with-lands-2-6307844

Now, before you waste 15 minutes of your life watching it, it's vs. Belcher.

[movingtonewao]

HAHA didn't read the belcher part before clicking on the link.

anyway cuthbertcat I was wondering if you might want to try to fit the following cards in your deck, which I think would be very useful.

Sensei's Divining Top - a copy for streamlining draws
Horizon Canopy - a land that can draw into more stuff/dredge life from the loam
Smokestack - for the attrition game

kind regards

[Julian23]

Before adding Sensei's Divining Top, try a second copy of Sylvan Library. Powering it out on turn1 is really sick and helps a lot in finding Exploration/Loam. Also, it dredges Life from the Loam for free.

[cuthbertthecat]

HAHA didn't read the belcher part before clicking on the link.

anyway cuthbertcat I was wondering if you might want to try to fit the following cards in your deck, which I think would be very useful.

Sensei's Divining Top - a copy for streamlining draws
Horizon Canopy - a land that can draw into more stuff/dredge life from the loam
Smokestack - for the attrition game

kind regards

I've played with top to tutor for with E-Tutor, I like it more than Sylvan Library because it can save loam from yard hate. I've tried canopy and it is very close to being in my list, I cut it for a 5th fetch, but there are certainly games where I have crucible and multiple explorations where tolaria westing for it would break the game open. I've also played smokestack, but I think it's too slow and unnecessary like most other finishers.

I can, however, work these cards and other suggestions into my list for future videos if that would interest you guys.

[movingtonewao]

whats your rationale for the 5th fetch over horizon canopy? Do you find yourself having manaland problems often when sitting on 4 fetches?
I do play the canopy because I find myself needing something to push me over when I establish crucible/exploration.

Btw Alex, I would like to add you on facebook if possible :)

[cuthbertthecat]

whats your rationale for the 5th fetch over horizon canopy? Do you find yourself having manaland problems often when sitting on 4 fetches?
I do play the canopy because I find myself needing something to push me over when I establish crucible/exploration.

Btw Alex, I would like to add you on facebook if possible :)

I like the 5th fetch as I have a ton of color requirements postboard between thalia, dark confidant, and tolaria west. I'll pm you the link to my facebook

[movingtonewao]

got your PM.

Interesting thought crossed my mind: are there any matchups where you bring in both thalia AND dark confidant at the same time? :tongue:

[cuthbertthecat]

got your PM.

Interesting thought crossed my mind: are there any matchups where you bring in both thalia AND dark confidant at the same time? :tongue:

All of the non-belcher storm decks and pretty much every control deck, they both have a high impact on the game and are unlikely to be dealt with

[movingtonewao]

btw for those who don't know, cuthbertcat made it to the daily deck list on mtg.com here (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg%2Fdaily%2Fdeck%2F1038).

"Alex is able to take over control of a game without ever casting a spell in some cases."

i don't think conleys played with lands enough to make that comment

[wally2345]

btw for those who don't know, cuthbertcat made it to the daily deck list on mtg.com here (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg%2Fdaily%2Fdeck%2F1038).

"Alex is able to take over control of a game without ever casting a spell in some cases."

i don't think conleys played with lands enough to make that comment

Yes, he calls him Alex Orson in the article which I found quite funny. Standard players may be able to take some valuable nuggets of information away from the article, however any legacy player most likely could write the three paragraphs vaguely describing the deck that Mr. Woods wrote.

[Phelix]

yeah the article also fails to mention a slew of other good Lands.dec accomplishments over the last two months, including a win a scg if I remember correctly.

[cuthbertthecat]

yeah the article also fails to mention a slew of other good Lands.dec accomplishments over the last two months, including a win a scg if I remember correctly.

Yeah, you almost top 8ed a gp which is definitely noteworthy along with the SCG Detroit win. I have no idea why they weren't mentioned and why the lists from those events weren't compared.

[yespuhyren]

A friend of mine posted an article recently on Lands, I figure I may as well post the link.

http://manadeprived.com/2012/08/jace-crucible-and-how-many-lands.html

[Julian23]

Regarding the Belcher matchup, you should be siding out the Maze of Ith instead of the Intuition. Siding out 4 lands makes Mox Diamond very slightly worse but Intuition still grabs Chalice of the Void or Thalia, Guardian of Thraben on/for turn2.

[wally2345]

A friend of mine posted an article recently on Lands, I figure I may as well post the link.

http://manadeprived.com/2012/08/jace-crucible-and-how-many-lands.html

wow that deck looks ugly. I read the article and was astonished. The man is running 4x crucible and 2x E. Tutor which could be flopped and make the deck 10x better. I believe that Jace hinders the development of a deck like this. Mana development is first and foremost then board stability.

I was testing Lands since Cuthbert gave me the Gamble version of the list about 2 years ago. It seems to me that E. Tutor has the top notch place in a deck like this to get all silver bullets and mana accel that a lands deck needs until Wizards finishes the Volrath's/Academy Ruins cycle with an enchantment stacking land.

In addition, testing the TES matchup postboard with Cuthbertthecat's sideboard i have found favorable as long as they don't t1/0 kill. 4 thalia to 3 cotv sideboard may be the right number. Thalia seems to break the game against combo players better while waiting on a cotv.

[movingtonewao]

back then (about 2 years ago), malacoda was running pure enlightened tutor (no intuition) and cuthbertcat was running intuitions. mcchainmail was also active on forums. I was inspired to build lands by all these people, though only cuthbertcat seems to be still active here.

If Tao is still alive, it would be nice to get an update on the OP regarding decklists, since lands have enjoyed some respectable finishes recently.

btw i read that article, agree that his decklist is a mess there are too many things I could criticize (and I'm just an average lands player). This guy should stick to canadian threshold =D

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gencon12/welcome#13

Apparently, We are all running hot this year!

R1 - Esper Stone blade 2-0
R2 - Goblins 1-0-1
R3 - Sneak n Show 2-0
R4 - Sneak n Show 2-0
R5 - RUG Delver 2-1
R6 - RUG Delver 2-1
R7 - RUG Delver 2-1
R8 - Hivemind 0-0-3
R9 - Goblins 0-0-3

Lost to a good friend of mine in the top 8 playing hivemind. Very depressing end to a great day though. The deck is solid, the only card I debate is Oblivion Stone, but it served a great purpose winning me R1 against Jace. Should have Played out round 9, and fought to secure 1st, but it is in the past now. I did not miss Krosan Grip until G2 against hivemind.

[cuthbertthecat]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gencon12/welcome#13

Apparently, We are all running hot this year!

R1 - Esper Stone blade 2-0
R2 - Goblins 1-0-1
R3 - Sneak n Show 2-0
R4 - Sneak n Show 2-0
R5 - RUG Delver 2-1
R6 - RUG Delver 2-1
R7 - RUG Delver 2-1
R8 - Hivemind 0-0-3
R9 - Goblins 0-0-3

Lost to a good friend of mine in the top 8 playing hivemind. Very depressing end to a great day though. The deck is solid, the only card I debate is Oblivion Stone, but it served a great purpose winning me R1 against Jace. Should have Played out round 9, and fought to secure 1st, but it is in the past now. I did not miss Krosan Grip until G2 against hivemind.

Congrats man, we lands players are running hot! Or all of the top decks are easily attacked from the same angle, one of the two. Unfortunately, short of playing Magosi or Sundial of the Infinite, there isn't anything to do about the Hivemind matchup.

Congrats again man, nice work!

[movingtonewao]

how did it feel like to triple kill RUG delver? must've been pretty sweet. Raven's Crime did a lot of legwork for you? =)

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

how did it feel like to triple kill RUG delver? must've been pretty sweet. Raven's Crime did a lot of legwork for you? =)

Raven's Crime did a lot against sneak n show. While trying to accumulate cards to combo one game, the opponent needed an Emrakul, had Karakas in hand, and I made him discard it. It is good against RUG, but a lot of times it is dead with Chalice out, so I side out 2 of them. Mark Sun (RUG) had Sylvan Library out G1 against me, and He would accumulate cards, and I would just dredge, and make him discard 3, and it helps an awful lot. I also cast Raven's Crime on myself against Goblins, a turn before I had Ensnaring Bridge in play (pretty sick).

[Stoyrm]

Alright! Taking lands to my next tournament, i'm pretty sure this will be my list.

37 lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
4 Maze of Ith
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tropical Island
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Savannah

24 Spells
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Exploration
3 Intuition
4 Life from the Loam
1 Manabond
4 Mox Diamond
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Raven's Crime
1 Zuran Orb
1 Sylvan Library
1 Worm's Harvest

Sideboard 15
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Cursed Totem
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Dark Confidant
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ethersworn Canonist

Things that can show up in my meta is;
Hive Mind / Omniscience
Dream Halls
Maverick x 2
Dredge x 2
Reanimator x 2
RDW x 2
Elves x 2
Miracles x 2
Enchantress
NO Bant
Merfolk x3
UW Delver
RUG Delver x3
Goblins
Cephalid Breakfast
MUD Stax
White Stax
Loam Pox
GB Pox
Affinity x2
TES or ANT

I'm not entirely sure on my sideboard. But i feel it's good against a wide range of decks. However i'm not sure the white part is needed. I could just cut white and play without white, and play some krosan grips + trinispheres. I also figure that i could play 1x Tormod's Crypt in the board to randomly hose Cephalid as i have no good way of defeating that atm :).

Anyways; present thoughts: Worm Harvest has been great. As well as the double tar pit beatdown plan. I feel i'm weak too Show and Tell, Enchantress (post board) and RDW, Cephalid Breakfast. Some of the other matches are a bit hard but very winnable, like elves.

Any ideas people?

@Julian23: An easy fix, and it's gives a better mana base for my white splash in the board.

[Julian23]

3 Manlands + Worm Harvest seems like too much. Not that it wouldn't work, but I think wasting 3 slots on manlands is subpar.

I think you're much better off adding the 4th Fetchland.

[TheStorm]

Strange thought, but has anyone considered Trading Post in lands?
For one, the discard to gain 4 life is pretty strong, considering that we can pitch a land and loam it back. Paying 1 life to make a goat to block the mongoose (that we cannot maze) or other big creature is like playing with a forcefield, and you can always sac a man land (or Bob) if they are facing a path or swords to plowshare.
Finally, though a bit complex, you can sac a Chalice of the Void to either cast things under it, or reset it. (you can get the chalice back with academy ruins or sacing a man land or goat to the Post).
Thoughts?

Also, I will be playing lands in Denver this week. Wish me luck!

[BlackStarDeceiver]

Strange thought, but has anyone considered Trading Post in lands?
For one, the discard to gain 4 life is pretty strong, considering that we can pitch a land and loam it back. Paying 1 life to make a goat to block the mongoose (that we cannot maze) or other big creature is like playing with a forcefield, and you can always sac a man land (or Bob) if they are facing a path or swords to plowshare.
Finally, though a bit complex, you can sac a Chalice of the Void to either cast things under it, or reset it. (you can get the chalice back with academy ruins or sacing a man land or goat to the Post).
Thoughts?

Also, I will be playing lands in Denver this week. Wish me luck!


Mishras Assembly workers sac both as creatures and artifacts for value and as outlet against unexpected removal.

A friend of mine plays Wildfires with the buttload of artifacts and Tradingpost combined with Voltaic Key. He gained so much value out of this interactions that it might be worth a try as a one of, especially considering the pseudo Academy Ruins interactions and the mentioned reset function for Chalice.

[movingtonewao]

Raven's Crime did a lot against sneak n show. While trying to accumulate cards to combo one game, the opponent needed an Emrakul, had Karakas in hand, and I made him discard it. It is good against RUG, but a lot of times it is dead with Chalice out, so I side out 2 of them. Mark Sun (RUG) had Sylvan Library out G1 against me, and He would accumulate cards, and I would just dredge, and make him discard 3, and it helps an awful lot. I also cast Raven's Crime on myself against Goblins, a turn before I had Ensnaring Bridge in play (pretty sick).


now THATs pretty sick. I've been meaning to try to find a way to fit raven's crime in but with intuition and enlightened tutor already present,
1) its hard to find space
2) taxing on the manabase

I notice you don't run enlightened tutor, does it hurt that much?

[HammerAndSickled]

Yeah, I meant Pact of Negation in my last post. It was a brain fart! In the end of course I realized it wasn't that good after all, since the decks you absolutely need a hard counter against usually play around it.

I've been testing a build with Living Wish as the tutor engine over Intuition, reasons being that it costs 1 less mana, can grab one-ofs without having to jump through hoops to recur, and also allows access to Thalia G1 vs. combo decks. I'm not sure if Wishing for Creatures is even a good idea game one, because they probably still have some sort of removal in their deck. Here's my current list for testing:

4 Exploration
1 Manabond

4 Mox Diamond
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds

4 Life from the Loam
3 Living Wish
3 Enlightened Tutor

2 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills

4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Maze of Ith
2 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Academy Ruins
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Riftstone Portal
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

SB:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Terravore
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Tolaria West

Does anyone have any input on this list? I tried to make it so that there was a diverse range of tutor targets, but I may have gotten hit with the danger of cool things. Oracle and Terravore are both game-winners when they happen, but they rarely happen as you'd like... I like having Jailer and Thalia access in G1 situations, but I do miss a Crypt effect to really put the nail in the coffin vs. Dredge. I was also considering a Gaddock Teeg. Can I run less Thalia because it's in the wishboard? Does this type of build merit a Volrath's Stronghold anywhere in the 75?

[Anen]

Yes it gets Thalia G1 for combo, but it also can't get Loam, only get 1 card instead of 3 and is not an instant. So I'll stick with Intuition ^^

[Phelix]

I think wishing for thalia vs combo will work rarely.
If I played wish, id probably be tempted to do some dark depths stuff.

but since its a spell that has little to no synergy with dredge, id rather stick with instant speed intuition and the versatility it gives you.

the other wish targets i feel are unimpressive, since dredge should already be a sweet matchup, and its a deck that doesnt see much play right now. Not playing wish will also free up a bunch of sb slots, that could improve some of the more important matchups like omniscience and storm.

Further, im very impressed with glacial chasm, and would want it main. having to resolve a sorcery to fetch it can be tricky, especially one you only have 3 of, and you may already have dredged some away

[cuthbertthecat]

I have just accomplished the brightest moment in my entire time playing magic. I have defeated spiral tide with lands, even while playing egregiously. Video to come hopefully, MTGO is being a bit strange with what replays it wants to show me.

[Philipp2293]

I know that feeling, 2 weeks ago I've defeated Spiral Tide myself with Lands. Congratz!

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

I have just accomplished the brightest moment in my entire time playing magic. I have defeated spiral tide with lands, even while playing egregiously. Video to come hopefully, MTGO is being a bit strange with what replays it wants to show me.

Hell yeah! I can't wait to see this. I'm gonna play the deck tonight and test magazine in the main and sundial, since there will be hive mind, and I'm tired of losing. I think it will work, and I'm going to put smokestacks in Place of Oblivion Stone, to try and do that trick.

I Agree with Phelix about living wish. Just run Ravens crime if you're worried about combo. It's a great Intuition target.

Also, I wrote an article about lands and submit it to Star City, so keep an eye out for that fellas!

[TraxDaMax]

I have just accomplished the brightest moment in my entire time playing magic. I have defeated spiral tide with lands, even while playing egregiously. Video to come hopefully, MTGO is being a bit strange with what replays it wants to show me.

Chalice is big in this match-up.

I'm sure Thalia too, but in my test days I didn't run her yet.

[Anen]

Any news from the Lands player that went 2-4 drop at SCG Denver? He lost R1 to Burn according to twitter. But what were his other matchups?

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Any news from the Lands player that went 2-4 drop at SCG Denver? He lost R1 to Burn according to twitter. But what were his other matchups?

How do you lose to burn? With Zuran orb and 3+ ways to find it, seems almost impossible.

[Raystar]

How do you lose to burn? With Zuran orb and 3+ ways to find it, seems almost impossible.

Well...I wasn't the guy that lost but I guess his opponent had Sulphuric Vortex at hand...

[Anen]

How do you lose to burn? With Zuran orb and 3+ ways to find it, seems almost impossible.

Lands meet price of progress. (https://twitter.com/Y0stwiththeM0st/status/239769610654724098)

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

I lost to Price of progress once in over 2 years of playing the deck. And it was in a zoo matchup. Rsven's crime with Glacial Chasm is too good... Lol

[Phelix]

ive never lost to price. ive had it played against me twice in the same match, but had zuran orb in play and just loled.
:cool:

i did play leyline of sanctity then.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

I find that once I cast Chalice of the Void one, two, and six... the game usually ends. And Price gets around Leyline of Sanctity, so is just helped against the rest of deck?

I find the hardest card to get around is Sulfuric Vortex. RUG landed it against me G2 at Gencon, nearly s@&$ my pants.

[TheStorm]

Hi All,

I took my build to SSG Denver this weekend, and did pretty poorly, mainly as I have not had too much experience with the deck; also 9 rounds of durdling the prior day (with a Post concoction) and little sleep may have led me to some mistakes. My deck list looks like:

Main
2 Eternal Witness
4 Mox Diamond
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb
1 Cursed Totem
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Exploration
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Intuition
4 Life from the Loam

4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Maze of Ith
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Forest
1 Riftstone Portal

Sideboard
3 Dark Confidant
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sylvok Replica
1 COP:R
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

My matchups were:
Burn (1-2)
Esper Stoneblade (1-0-1)
Omni Show (1-2)
Mud (1-0-1)
Death & Taxes (0-1-1)
Goblins (0-2)

I played well past the dropping point, mainly to try to get some more experience with the build. I did not take notes, but here is a recap from memory.

Round 1: I stomped with exploration, loam, orb, chasm in G1. a price after sacing chasm was met by sacing all but 2 lands and 2 mox. Win with a comfortable life total.
G2, I had a beautiful hand and started off strong, unfortunately I milled the orb on an early dredge and Faerie Macabre got rid of it. To run salt in the wound, a second macabre then took out the loam on the next turn.
G3 I mul to 6 and see top, diamond, chalice, 3x land. I drop chalice on 1 (a mistake I learned afterwards), and he has the artifact removal on T2. Top cannot find me any answers.

Round 2: opponent had to read cards and it was clear that he was not sure how my deck functioned. Long games, fairly easy win

Round 3: I have a slightly slow 6, and my opponent is on the play. T3 Show&Tell for omniscience followed by emmrakul (i had enlightened tutor in hand, but no way to draw if I had moved the bridge to the top of my library). G2 I play wasteland, diamond. Next turn waste his land and loam back the waste. T3 land karakas and drop Thalia. Ride thalia for a turn or two (or 10), while wasting any land that happen to appear on the other side of the table. he finds a petal, and I drop a chalice at 1. G3 I have a fairly reactive hand and land an early thalia and start to beat though I do not have any mana disruption. Opponent gets to 4 mana and drops Show&Tell for omniscience. I drop crucible off the S&T. At his end step I attempt an enlightened tutor (paying 2 due to thalia), and he casts force of will for free using omniscience.
This is where the game goes wrong. I did not realize the interaction of Thalia and omniscience and allow the counter to resolve. I draw for the turn (loam) and loam, then pass back. My opponent is empty handed and draws a ponder. When he casts it he taps a land. I remind him that omniscience is in play and he responds that thalia requires him to pay one more mana. I immediately stop the match and call for a judge. I ask for a rewind of the game (less than 1 full turn) as my opponent was not able to force my enlightened tutor the turn prior due to the fact that he was tapped out. The head judge comes over and says that we have moved too far into the game and that he would not allow us to back up the 3/4 turn that we had progressed. I am issued a warning for failure to maintain board state (or something like that), and as I could not resolve the tutor (for sylvok replica) I end up losing this game when his ponder finds a burning wish for petals...

Round 4: This guy also does not apparently know how to play lands. I land lock him real early and then dredge over and over until I find my tar pit. 49 minutes into the round I win G1. G2 is a draw.

Round 5: I did not know what I was facing. I mull and keep 2x diamond, 2x tolaria, maze, intuition (nuts right?). My opponent is on the play and goes plains, vial. I draw glacial chasm, and then play diamond (pitch maze), diamond (pitch chasm), tolaria tapped. My opponent plays a 2nd plains and drops a phyrexian revoker naming diamond... I grind as best as I can until I am able to transmute for explosives. When I go to cast explosives for 2, opponent vials in another revoker in response and names explosives. G2 I mull real low, but start out ok and get the bridge in play around T3. however, a series of vialed flickerwisp repeatably exiles the bridge and my single maze cannot hold off the hoard.

Round 6: this goblin player had 2 copies of Tuktuk Scrapper main and a full contingent of wastelands, and they caused serious havoc with my defenses. I had both chasm and bridge in play, but vialing in the scrapper then casting a wasteland was gg. Similar events for G2.

Overall, I was a bit disappointed. Im not sure if I may too may mistakes, but i ended up losing several matches that I felt I should have been able to beat. If you have any suggestions or questions, please let me know.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Hi All,

I took my build to SSG Denver this weekend, and did pretty poorly, mainly as I have not had too much experience with the deck; also 9 rounds of durdling the prior day (with a Post concoction) and little sleep may have led me to some mistakes. My deck list looks like:

Main
2 Eternal Witness
4 Mox Diamond
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb
1 Cursed Totem
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Exploration
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Intuition
4 Life from the Loam

4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Maze of Ith
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Forest
1 Riftstone Portal

Sideboard
3 Dark Confidant
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sylvok Replica
1 COP:R
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

My matchups were:
Burn (1-2)
Esper Stoneblade (1-0-1)
Omni Show (1-2)
Mud (1-0-1)
Death & Taxes (0-1-1)
Goblins (0-2)

I played well past the dropping point, mainly to try to get some more experience with the build. I did not take notes, but here is a recap from memory.

Round 1: I stomped with exploration, loam, orb, chasm in G1. a price after sacing chasm was met by sacing all but 2 lands and 2 mox. Win with a comfortable life total.
G2, I had a beautiful hand and started off strong, unfortunately I milled the orb on an early dredge and Faerie Macabre got rid of it. To run salt in the wound, a second macabre then took out the loam on the next turn.
G3 I mul to 6 and see top, diamond, chalice, 3x land. I drop chalice on 1 (a mistake I learned afterwards), and he has the artifact removal on T2. Top cannot find me any answers.

Round 2: opponent had to read cards and it was clear that he was not sure how my deck functioned. Long games, fairly easy win

Round 3: I have a slightly slow 6, and my opponent is on the play. T3 Show&Tell for omniscience followed by emmrakul (i had enlightened tutor in hand, but no way to draw if I had moved the bridge to the top of my library). G2 I play wasteland, diamond. Next turn waste his land and loam back the waste. T3 land karakas and drop Thalia. Ride thalia for a turn or two (or 10), while wasting any land that happen to appear on the other side of the table. he finds a petal, and I drop a chalice at 1. G3 I have a fairly reactive hand and land an early thalia and start to beat though I do not have any mana disruption. Opponent gets to 4 mana and drops Show&Tell for omniscience. I drop crucible off the S&T. At his end step I attempt an enlightened tutor (paying 2 due to thalia), and he casts force of will for free using omniscience.
This is where the game goes wrong. I did not realize the interaction of Thalia and omniscience and allow the counter to resolve. I draw for the turn (loam) and loam, then pass back. My opponent is empty handed and draws a ponder. When he casts it he taps a land. I remind him that omniscience is in play and he responds that thalia requires him to pay one more mana. I immediately stop the match and call for a judge. I ask for a rewind of the game (less than 1 full turn) as my opponent was not able to force my enlightened tutor the turn prior due to the fact that he was tapped out. The head judge comes over and says that we have moved too far into the game and that he would not allow us to back up the 3/4 turn that we had progressed. I am issued a warning for failure to maintain board state (or something like that), and as I could not resolve the tutor (for sylvok replica) I end up losing this game when his ponder finds a burning wish for petals...

Round 4: This guy also does not apparently know how to play lands. I land lock him real early and then dredge over and over until I find my tar pit. 49 minutes into the round I win G1. G2 is a draw.

Round 5: I did not know what I was facing. I mull and keep 2x diamond, 2x tolaria, maze, intuition (nuts right?). My opponent is on the play and goes plains, vial. I draw glacial chasm, and then play diamond (pitch maze), diamond (pitch chasm), tolaria tapped. My opponent plays a 2nd plains and drops a phyrexian revoker naming diamond... I grind as best as I can until I am able to transmute for explosives. When I go to cast explosives for 2, opponent vials in another revoker in response and names explosives. G2 I mull real low, but start out ok and get the bridge in play around T3. however, a series of vialed flickerwisp repeatably exiles the bridge and my single maze cannot hold off the hoard.

Round 6: this goblin player had 2 copies of Tuktuk Scrapper main and a full contingent of wastelands, and they caused serious havoc with my defenses. I had both chasm and bridge in play, but vialing in the scrapper then casting a wasteland was gg. Similar events for G2.

Overall, I was a bit disappointed. Im not sure if I may too may mistakes, but i ended up losing several matches that I felt I should have been able to beat. If you have any suggestions or questions, please let me know.

This is not a deck that you just pick up. It takes a lot of time to know the right lines of play. You did get some very bad match ups, along with some very poor luck with the revoker. How did eternal witness work out for you? I was never too big into creatures in the main deck.

[TheStorm]

I really like witness for a number of reasons. For one, if I dredge out any spells that I cannot recover (ie instants/enchantments, or artifacts before i can get ruins), witness can recover them. Another reason is that I get a blocker if I need one, or more "aggro" when i need it (ie jace).
Finally I love having tabernacle in play and not paying for witness. witness dies for tab upkeep trigger, and then I use Volrath's Stronghold (still at upkeep) to put witness on top, and then draw & cast witness to recover something important. Rinse and repeat. Oh, and if you bring in Thalia/Bob/Canonist from the SB, non-exiling removal will not fully remove your creatures thanks to Volrath's Stronghold.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Witness seems more cute than consistent. This spot can be Sylvan Library, which will not eat their removal, and it will give you options early and late game. If you're dredging, there shouldn't be any need to get instants back, only enchantments. Stronghold is good, but what are the chances you are going to skip dredging to draw one of the creatures? If its Thalia, they probably already killed your, and confidant seems like you would lose card advantage. Tao redid the primer not too long ago. Check it out, I have found it very helpful.

[Anen]

Always nice to read a report, even not a winner's one :)

[TheStorm]

Witness seems more cute than consistent. This spot can be Sylvan Library, which will not eat their removal, and it will give you options early and late game. If you're dredging, there shouldn't be any need to get instants back, only enchantments. Stronghold is good, but what are the chances you are going to skip dredging to draw one of the creatures? If its Thalia, they probably already killed your, and confidant seems like you would lose card advantage. Tao redid the primer not too long ago. Check it out, I have found it very helpful.

I've reread the primer, thanks for the suggestion. As for Sylvan Library, is it better than sensei's divining top? I've read about the interaction with Dredge (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21281-Sylvan-Library-and-Life-from-the-Loam-interaction), and you would have to have 3 loams in the yard to draw and not put back (without paying life). The top has the ability to both draw at instant speed, and protect itself. The library can net extra cards, though at the cost of life (which feels counter-intuitive to our strategy).

[Keiichi.the.Otaku]

I've reread the primer, thanks for the suggestion. As for Sylvan Library, is it better than sensei's divining top? I've read about the interaction with Dredge (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21281-Sylvan-Library-and-Life-from-the-Loam-interaction), and you would have to have 3 loams in the yard to draw and not put back (without paying life). The top has the ability to both draw at instant speed, and protect itself. The library can net extra cards, though at the cost of life (which feels counter-intuitive to our strategy).

My experience, and a couple other very experienced Lands players, have taught me that so long as you're at more than 3 life, you don't care what you're life total is (within reason; if lethal is on the board and you can't protect yourself with mazes/orb/etc, then you obviously don't want to draw from Library). This deck is designed to be able to stabilize at low life.

[Phelix]

when low on life, sylvan does alot of the same draw fixing top does.

when you have extra life, sylvan is a total bomb.

in the control matchup in general sylvan is a huge bomb.

in a deck that can both dredge and gain life - sylvan, in my opinion fits right in.

Cant say for sure that im the first to play in a major tournament, but im very happy with it, and its not among the first 5-8 cards im considering to change.

if you play enlightened tutor, top becomes slightly better, due to increased shuffling. -sometimes tutoring for something and not drawing it is the best play.

[wally2345]

Just top 64 with lands at scg 5k Minneapolis. However, I should have top 32 had I not had a brainfart in the last round which lead to a draw in the last round to end the day at 5-2-2 sadly...

My list is the same as cuthbertthecat's Enlightened Tutor build.

Round 1 against Solidarity

I lose game one side in Thalia, Bob, Chalice, and factory

proceed to win games 2 and 3 on the backs of thalia, bob, with chalice on 1 helped by ports.

1-0

Round 2 against Reanimator

Game 1 mana bond, ee for 0 turn 1 dumping Loam in the gy off mana bond trigger. Proceed to smash his mana base until he concedes to save time.

Game 2 have thalia, bob, and turn 1 crypt. easily overcome his mana base and end up blowing O stone after he reanimates a Sphinx of steel wind to put him at 1 and I swing with factory for the win

2-0

Round 3 against U/W Miracles

Game 1 he has too many basics for me and casts angels i lose before i can set anything up.

Game 2 thalia, and bob beats get there while wasting and porting his mana base.

Game 3 I stabilize at 3 have a recurrable e.e and we end up going to time

2-0-1

Round 4 against RUG

Game 1 threshed mongeese get there before i can put up much of a fight.

Game 2 chalice on 1 with wastelock and tabernacle turn off his whole board he scoops

Game 3 I play chalice on 1 turn 2 it gets countered. he counters a couple of dredged lifes and proceeds to win on the back of some mongees.

2-1-1

Round 5 against BUG

Game 1 I set up the lock to waste him out of lands and port the rest he scoops when I ghost quarter him out.

Game 2 I draw a bunch of lands and no outs he has Jace but is durdling around I make note of the clock at 20 min and decide to scoop at 15 min left in the round.

Game 3 I god draw with Bob, explore, wasteland, rishadan port, Diamond, loam and another land. I proceed to crush his mana base for 2 turns followed by another bob and tarpit at which point he concedes to me.

3-1-1

Round 6 against RUG

Game 1 threshed mongeese get there along with me mulliganing down to 5.

Game 2 and 3 able to resolve chalice on 1 after i play exploration and waste his manabase and kill creatures with tabernacle.

4-1-1

Round 7 against RUG

Game 1 and 2 he has all of the counters for my outs and crushes me with mongeese.

4-2-1

Round 8 against Rock splashing red

Game 1 he runs 6 basics 2 of each color so I cant really do much to his manabase but port 2 lands. He burning wishes for Haunting Echoes and proceeds to remove my wastes and about half my deck from play. He also burning wishes again for his own Loam. He manages to haunting echoes again a few turns later leaving me with 7 cards left. I know I have a crucible and 2 explorations left in my deck along with a ghost quarter. After a long grindy game I manage to deck him game 1 recurring a Mox diamond and ghost quartering away his green then black sources until he had no lands left. We have about 12 min left when he concede as he realizes he cannot deck me and he has no lands.

Game 2 I mull to 5 with about 10 min left. I keep a hand with bob, wasteland. rishadan port, mox diamond, zuran orb. I play turn 1 bob holding waste back in my hand. turn 2 i reveal a bob and draw a wasteland. I play bob and waste his nonbasic. the next turn i play a mishra's and a thalia. he loses to the fastest Lands draw ever.

5-2-1

Round 9 against Maverick

Game 1 I Get cursed totem and multiple lock pieces he scoops afterward.

Game 2 I proceed to topdeck 4 mox diamonds after playing exploration and a bunch of stuff bun no loam. Looking back I should have scooped to him with about 15 min left in the round to get to game 3 but I just needed 1 card to get me out of the mess.

Game 3 we start with 4 min left on the clock. I keep a 7 card hand which happens to have a first turn bob and zuran orb with exploration. A second turn bob wasting his land and dropping a maze to stop the hierarch in play while time is called. We time out with creeping tarpit in play and he is at 12 while I have Life working for me. He refuses to concede because he doesn't know if he will top 64 with 5-3-1 record so we draw to both go 5-2-2. Me not tracking the clock that match caused the draw or else i would have top 32.

Anyway, that was my short report. Ending at 5-2-2 with around 270 people for legacy.

[Rad_Fishy]

Hey Wally, can we see your decklist?

[wally2345]

Hey Wally, can we see your decklist?

same as cuthbert

MAINDECK

4x mox diamond
4x exploration
2x manabond
4x life from the loam
3x intuition
3x enlightened tutor
1x crucible of worlds
1x zuran orb
1x ensnaring bridge
1x cursed totem
1x engineered explosives

3x tropical island
1x bayou
1x savannah
1x forest
2x misty rainforest
1x windswept heath
1x wooded foothills
1x verdant catacombs
1x karakas
1x academy ruins
4x maze of ith
4x wasteland
4x rishadan port
2x tranquil thicket
3x tolaria west
1x creeping tarpit
1x mishra's factory
1x the tabernacle at pendrell vale
1x glacial chasm
1x ghost quarter

SIDEBOARD

4x chalice of the void
4x dark confidant
3x thalia, guardian of thraben
1x engineered explosives
1x oblivion stone
1x tormod's crypt
1x mishra's factory

[Anen]

Did you get a chance to use the MD Cursed Totem?

On another note, as if Ooze was not enought pain for us vs. GW, now we have Dryad Militant that laughs at loud at Loam..


Uncommon
G/W
Creature - Dryad Soldier
If an instant or sorcery would be put in a graveyard from anywhere, exile it instead.
2/1

/ban GSZ :cool:

[wally2345]

Did you get a chance to use the MD Cursed Totem?

On another note, as if Ooze was not enought pain for us vs. GW, now we have Dryad Militant that laughs at loud at Loam..



/ban GSZ :cool:

yea last round the MD cursed totem won game one. I expected to see more maverick that day yet the maverick players were always to my left and right playing against goblins. I also played the totem game 2 against reanimator as it shuts down griselbrand.

[TheStorm]

On another note, as if Ooze was not enought pain for us vs. GW, now we have Dryad Militant that laughs at loud at Loam..

/ban GSZ :cool:

Wow, is this card specifically made to hate loam? It certainly doesnt stop dredge.
Let's hope that Maveric sticks with just Ooze as it has a stronger grave interaction.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

The card doesn't fit the Maverick deck. That is too many one drop, with Mother of Runes and Noble Hierarch. I feel it is a great sideboard card against dredge, and RUG, sine it will make mongoose a lot harder to thresh. We will see this card, so explosives will be more important to see.

[adrock]

Pardon my inexperience with lands in regards to the following questions.

From reading the last couple tournament reports I am seeing Thalia and Bob sided in almost every game.

I understand not playing Bob main as it turns on opposing removal, however Thalia seems amazing to run main - is there a reason she is not?

Thinking about picking this deck up and looking for some enlightenment.

[Anen]

Pardon my inexperience with lands in regards to the following questions.

From reading the last couple tournament reports I am seeing Thalia and Bob sided in almost every game.

I understand not playing Bob main as it turns on opposing removal, however Thalia seems amazing to run main - is there a reason she is not?

Thinking about picking this deck up and looking for some enlightenment.

Thalia is "useless" against creatures decks, which already are our best matchups.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Thalia is "useless" against creatures decks, which already are our best matchups.

X2 - agreed

[Jay_Gatz]

I'm still having trouble deciding between thalia, krosan grip and trinisphere for my sideboard

[cuthbertthecat]

I'm still having trouble deciding between thalia, krosan grip and trinisphere for my sideboard

I would say Thalia. Thalia gives you a clock which is better against combo than 3sphere, k-grip gets rid of problem stuff like blood moon which isn't too common anymore that Thalia doesn't; otherwise they're both good against Countertop with K-Grip being somewhat decent against blade variants while Thalia is amazing there.

[Jay_Gatz]

Played with thalia to a 3-0 finish in my weekly tournament last night. It was definitely better against miracles than I expected and it helped me steal a win against storm, I'm sold.

[TheStorm]

As it is clear from my posts that I am still learning this deck, would it be possible for people posting tournament/game reports to include both:
a) deck list in the post
b) How you sided for each match (both # of cards in and out)

I think that this kind of information would help me tremendously, Thanks!

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

As it is clear from my posts that I am still learning this deck, would it be possible for people posting tournament/game reports to include both:
a) deck list in the post
b) How you sided for each match (both # of cards in and out)

I think that this kind of information would help me tremendously, Thanks!

Artifacts
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mox Diamond
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Zuran Orb

Enchantments
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
1 Sylvan Library

Instants
3 Intuition
1 Enlightened Tutor

Sorceries
4 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime

Lands
2 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
1 Savannah
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

Legendary Lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Cursed Totem
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Dark Confidant
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

This Deck list is all over the place, I understand - Please dont question the singleton Enlightened Tutor :). What I did last night, just for you!

BUG 2-0

IN:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Confidant
1 Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge

OUT:
3 Intuition
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Raven's Crime
2 Manabond
1 Sylvan Library
2 Tranquil Thicket

RUG 2-0
IN:
4 Chalice
3 Thalia
1 Explosives

OUT:
3 Intuition
2 Manabond
1 E. Tutor
1 Sylvan Library
1 Tranquil Thicket

Trainwreck 2-0

Dont think it matters, but:
IN:
1 Oblivion Stone
3 Thalia
4 Confidant

OUT:
4 Maze of Ith
1 Tabernacle
2 Manabond
1 Raven's Crime

RUG 1-1-1

IN:
4 Chalice
3 Thalia
1 Explosives

OUT:
3 Intuition
2 Manabond
1 E. Tutor
1 Sylvan Library
1 Tranquil Thicket

Junk - 2-0

IN:
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Explosives
4 Dark Confidant
1 Cursed Totem

OUT:
3 Intuition
2 Manabond
1 Raven's Crime
1 Enlightened Tutor

Little Message - Intuition and Manabond always come out, unless Im playing against Dredge or Goblins. Intuition is too against those decks, and you dont have a lot of time to assemble the lock pieces you need, so Intuition stays in often.

[TheStorm]

Thanks for that, I played my brew last night (though less 1 witness for 1 sylvan library MD, SB was:
3 Dark Confidant
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Sylvok Replica
1 Ghostly Prison
1 COP:R
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben).

I faced
R1: RUG Delver (2-1)
SB IN
3x Bob
3x Chalice of the Void
3x Thalia
1x Explosives

OUT
3x Intuition
3x Enlightened
1x Cursed Totem
1x Witness
1x Sylvan Library
1x thicket

R2: Know & Tell (0-2)
He uses Academy Rector+Cabal Therapy to get omniscience, so even though I had enlightened/top in G1, I was not able to tutor bridge and Know in Tell it in. He also has Cavern of Souls to get around counters (even if I could have landed a Chalice @ 4)

SB IN
3x Thalia
3x Bob
1x Sylvok Replica
1x ghostly prison

OUT
1x Eternal Witness
1x Sylvan Library
1x Riftstone Portal
3x Intuition
1x Cursed Totem
1x Explosives

R3 ANT (0-2)
Here I lose the dice roll and he T1's me. G2 I open with Waste, tolaria, fetch, 2 other land, needle, EE. I keep (in hindsight very loose) because I want to needle LED. of course he not only has 2 petals, but the probe to see EE and combo around it on T2. I probably should have aggro-mulled to chalice to set at 0? ///Feel free to advise///

SB In
3x Chalice
3x Bob
3x Thalia
1x Pithing Needle
1x Explosives

OUT
3x Intuition
1x Witness
1x Top
1x Sylvan Library
1x Bojuka
1x Rifstone
1x Cursed Totem
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Ensnaring Bridge

R4: Sligh (2-0)
I was not familiar with this build, saw 3x cursed scroll and a goblin guide G1. G2 I see lavamancer & price, though orb T1 plus exploration/loam put a stop to that stuff.

SB In
3x Thalia
1x Explosives
1x Needle
1x Sylvok Replica

Out
3x Intuition
1x Cursed Totem
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Witness

________
Comments:
1) Again, I faced 50% combo (and lost to both). The more I play, the more I realize that the bulk of my LGS is combo (Ive also faced Burn/Doomsday/other Show and Tell/other ANT/TES). I know that lands has a rough matchup with these decks. Is raven's crime that good against a T1/T2 thrashing? Other than winning the die roll and somehow surviving G1, and placing a T1 chalice in G2/3 are there other options to combating these "unfair" decks?
2) Witness is SB out in every matchup. Perhaps I dont need this security blanket (too slow?). I will trim for something better (and trim stronghold for perhaps a 4th maze)
3) As the bulk of my meta is combo, Cursed Totem came out in every match. I think that it will be moved to SB. Does this mean that I should trim back my Enlightened Tutors?
4) Im siding in so many cards each round, I worry that I am pushing the deck away from it's focus.

[Julian23]

Pithing Needle doesn't stop Lion's Eye Diamond :wink:

[TheStorm]

Pithing Needle doesn't stop Lion's Eye Diamond :wink:

Wow, neither of us realized that. Props to running a Japanese needle that neither could read. The "threat" did not stop him but a turn in any case.
Perhaps I'll need to replace needle with Pithing Beetle (aka revoker). Then I have a needle that can hit mana abilities + attack.

[cuthbertthecat]

Artifacts
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mox Diamond
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Zuran Orb

Enchantments
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
1 Sylvan Library

Instants
3 Intuition
1 Enlightened Tutor

Sorceries
4 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime

Lands
2 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
1 Savannah
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

Legendary Lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Cursed Totem
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Dark Confidant
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

This Deck list is all over the place, I understand - Please dont question the singleton Enlightened Tutor :). What I did last night, just for you!

BUG 2-0

IN:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Confidant
1 Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge

OUT:
3 Intuition
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Raven's Crime
2 Manabond
1 Sylvan Library
2 Tranquil Thicket

RUG 2-0
IN:
4 Chalice
3 Thalia
1 Explosives

OUT:
3 Intuition
2 Manabond
1 E. Tutor
1 Sylvan Library
1 Tranquil Thicket

Trainwreck 2-0

Dont think it matters, but:
IN:
1 Oblivion Stone
3 Thalia
4 Confidant

OUT:
4 Maze of Ith
1 Tabernacle
2 Manabond
1 Raven's Crime

RUG 1-1-1

IN:
4 Chalice
3 Thalia
1 Explosives

OUT:
3 Intuition
2 Manabond
1 E. Tutor
1 Sylvan Library
1 Tranquil Thicket

Junk - 2-0

IN:
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Explosives
4 Dark Confidant
1 Cursed Totem

OUT:
3 Intuition
2 Manabond
1 Raven's Crime
1 Enlightened Tutor

Little Message - Intuition and Manabond always come out, unless Im playing against Dredge or Goblins. Intuition is too against those decks, and you dont have a lot of time to assemble the lock pieces you need, so Intuition stays in often.

I agree with everything but Thalia against RUG. Its good when you can make sure it stays in play without eating a bolt, to do so you've usually wrecked their manabase beyond recovery and have a chalice, making the 1 additional mana they pay for spells they couldn't cast anyway a bit pointless. When it's bad they pay 2 for a bolt and Thalia did nothing, and against rug you need all of your spells to have a somewhat immediate impact on the game.


Pithing Needle doesn't stop Lion's Eye Diamond :wink:

You should probably include this somewhere in your signature.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

I agree with everything but Thalia against RUG. Its good when you can make sure it stays in play without eating a bolt, to do so you've usually wrecked their manabase beyond recovery and have a chalice, making the 1 additional mana they pay for spells they couldn't cast anyway a bit pointless. When it's bad they pay 2 for a bolt and Thalia did nothing, and against rug you need all of your spells to have a somewhat immediate impact on the game.



You should probably include this somewhere in your signature.


Thanks for that, I played my brew last night (though less 1 witness for 1 sylvan library MD, SB was:
3 Dark Confidant
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Sylvok Replica
1 Ghostly Prison
1 COP:R
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben).

I faced
R1: RUG Delver (2-1)
SB IN
3x Bob
3x Chalice of the Void
3x Thalia
1x Explosives

OUT
3x Intuition
3x Enlightened
1x Cursed Totem
1x Witness
1x Sylvan Library
1x thicket

R2: Know & Tell (0-2)
He uses Academy Rector+Cabal Therapy to get omniscience, so even though I had enlightened/top in G1, I was not able to tutor bridge and Know in Tell it in. He also has Cavern of Souls to get around counters (even if I could have landed a Chalice @ 4)

SB IN
3x Thalia
3x Bob
1x Sylvok Replica
1x ghostly prison

OUT
1x Eternal Witness
1x Sylvan Library
1x Riftstone Portal
3x Intuition
1x Cursed Totem
1x Explosives

R3 ANT (0-2)
Here I lose the dice roll and he T1's me. G2 I open with Waste, tolaria, fetch, 2 other land, needle, EE. I keep (in hindsight very loose) because I want to needle LED. of course he not only has 2 petals, but the probe to see EE and combo around it on T2. I probably should have aggro-mulled to chalice to set at 0? ///Feel free to advise///

SB In
3x Chalice
3x Bob
3x Thalia
1x Pithing Needle
1x Explosives

OUT
3x Intuition
1x Witness
1x Top
1x Sylvan Library
1x Bojuka
1x Rifstone
1x Cursed Totem
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Ensnaring Bridge

R4: Sligh (2-0)
I was not familiar with this build, saw 3x cursed scroll and a goblin guide G1. G2 I see lavamancer & price, though orb T1 plus exploration/loam put a stop to that stuff.

SB In
3x Thalia
1x Explosives
1x Needle
1x Sylvok Replica

Out
3x Intuition
1x Cursed Totem
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Witness

________
Comments:
1) Again, I faced 50% combo (and lost to both). The more I play, the more I realize that the bulk of my LGS is combo (Ive also faced Burn/Doomsday/other Show and Tell/other ANT/TES). I know that lands has a rough matchup with these decks. Is raven's crime that good against a T1/T2 thrashing? Other than winning the die roll and somehow surviving G1, and placing a T1 chalice in G2/3 are there other options to combating these "unfair" decks?
2) Witness is SB out in every matchup. Perhaps I dont need this security blanket (too slow?). I will trim for something better (and trim stronghold for perhaps a 4th maze)
3) As the bulk of my meta is combo, Cursed Totem came out in every match. I think that it will be moved to SB. Does this mean that I should trim back my Enlightened Tutors?
4) Im siding in so many cards each round, I worry that I am pushing the deck away from it's focus.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Comments:
1) Again, I faced 50% combo (and lost to both). The more I play, the more I realize that the bulk of my LGS is combo (Ive also faced Burn/Doomsday/other Show and Tell/other ANT/TES). I know that lands has a rough matchup with these decks. Is raven's crime that good against a T1/T2 thrashing? Other than winning the die roll and somehow surviving G1, and placing a T1 chalice in G2/3 are there other options to combating these "unfair" decks?
2) Witness is SB out in every matchup. Perhaps I dont need this security blanket (too slow?). I will trim for something better (and trim stronghold for perhaps a 4th maze)
3) As the bulk of my meta is combo, Cursed Totem came out in every match. I think that it will be moved to SB. Does this mean that I should trim back my Enlightened Tutors?
4) Im siding in so many cards each round, I worry that I am pushing the deck away from it's focus.

1. I've went over Ravens crime several times in the past 88 pages. Read it. The deck is very bad against combo. I wouldn't play it in that metagame(lol). But if you have to(which we all want to), throw main board combo hate in. You have Zuran Orb for burn, you have explosives for just about everything, Crucible for the tier 2 retarded decks (like Junk, Trainwreck), O Stone for massive removal. Why not play a Trinisphere Mainboard, and a Chalice Mainboard, just as long as its not a Maindeck creature, you'll be fine. But I would run Crime. It's really freakin good against non aggressive creature/planes walker decks.

2. Cut the witness. It is too slow, and too cute. 4 mazes has always been the right number for me.

3. Unless you go Ravens Crime, don't cut any Enlightened Tutors. They will be good 99% of the time.

4. I win game one about 95% of the time. The only type of edge they have against us (non-combo) is graveyard hate. The intuitions come out, and Bob comes in. So they side out removal, for gy hate, and Confidant ends up doing almost the same thing Loam does. It accelerates your card advantage, and keeps your head above water. Your graveyard will be attacked. And that will kill you unless you can accel. I mentioned above I beat Junk 2-0. I beat (all cast in order): Thalia, Gaddock Teeg, Scaveging Ooze, Qasali Pridemage, Maelstrom Pulse, surgical extraction on Loam, Liliana the Veil, Scavaging Ooze, Knight of the Reliquary, Bojuka Bog, Confidant, Confidant, Tarmogoyf, dryad arbor. I cast Loam once The whole game. You can fight anything... You just have to have a game plan. The deck functions differently after side owed. You just need to learn the functionality of it.

[movingtonewao]

1. I've went over Ravens crime several times in the past 88 pages. Read it.

thats harsh...I think he read but perhaps he wants to know something specific, like how will raven's crime make specific matchups more favourable vs running something like say enlightened tutor. Also need to factor in raven's crime needing the appropriate manabase to support.

[Fizzeler]

So I am working on building this deck and wondered is it worth running one Taiga to run REB in the board in place of 2 confidants?

[TraxDaMax]

So I am working on building this deck and wondered is it worth running one Taiga to run REB in the board in place of 2 confidants?

Easily answered. No.
Dark Confidant is 4 of in your side. Preferably 8 of in side if it was possible.

[XdeckX]

Played Lands for the first time ever in a tournament. I ran a Raven's crime heavy build (like the one that won a SCG tourney)
I didn't expect to do awesome and just wanted to try it for a change (I usually play NicFit)
Easily won against fish
Lost to belcher in 2 really closes and crazy games
Drew against some monoblack hate/aggrodeck
Lost to Dredge
Drew against High Tide.

I forced belcher to go all in on his turn 1 after starting with Ravens Crime. He had nothing in play but belcher. Of course he rips the needed LED.
Game 2 he made 14 goblins on turn 1. I take 14 and manage to get Tabernacle in play. Take 3 hits from 1 remaining goblin (he had a Taiga) while getting chalice @ 0 and 1 into play. I find a waste and make a Trinisphere. I take forever to find a wincondition and when my opponent is @5 he goes Spirit Guide, Spirit Guide, Spirit Guide, Seething Song, Seething Song, Seething Song, Belcher, Kill you. I was looking for my Chasm for a couple of turns but couldnt find any (never found a Loam in that game either)

Monoblack was quite fun. I won game 1 quite easily. Game to I had stuff locked up but he managed to drain thought my Chasm with Kalastria Highborn :/ No time to play game 3.

The dredge player was really aweful (he couldnt make out how to stack the Bridge triggers after me blocking his Ichorid with Factory but the booze might have been an issue... he was really drunk already at 2PM :P) Eventually I just got overwhelmed eventhough I removed 3 bridges. Couldnt find any of my 8/9 outs I still had left.

High Tide was quite fun. He managed to fizzle in game 1 after which I raped his hand with Ravens Crime. I casually beat him with Tar Pits.
Game 2 he takes forever but gets there. we have 5 minuted before we go to additional turns. Im never going to make it... but he couldnt do it either. Amusing game with a really nice opponent.

I'm still unsure if I want to remove the Ravens Crimes from the main. They were really awesome all day (but it helps if you face combo 2x) I want to try Thalia in the side but currently the manabase doesnt support it with a high black requirement for Raven's Crime.

All in all its a really fun deck to play and will probably remain my goto deck when I dont feel like playing NicFit.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Played Lands for the first time ever in a tournament. I ran a Raven's crime heavy build (like the one that won a SCG tourney)
I didn't expect to do awesome and just wanted to try it for a change (I usually play NicFit)
Easily won against fish
Lost to belcher in 2 really closes and crazy games
Drew against some monoblack hate/aggrodeck
Lost to Dredge
Drew against High Tide.

I forced belcher to go all in on his turn 1 after starting with Ravens Crime. He had nothing in play but belcher. Of course he rips the needed LED.
Game 2 he made 14 goblins on turn 1. I take 14 and manage to get Tabernacle in play. Take 3 hits from 1 remaining goblin (he had a Taiga) while getting chalice @ 0 and 1 into play. I find a waste and make a Trinisphere. I take forever to find a wincondition and when my opponent is @5 he goes Spirit Guide, Spirit Guide, Spirit Guide, Seething Song, Seething Song, Seething Song, Belcher, Kill you. I was looking for my Chasm for a couple of turns but couldnt find any (never found a Loam in that game either)

Monoblack was quite fun. I won game 1 quite easily. Game to I had stuff locked up but he managed to drain thought my Chasm with Kalastria Highborn :/ No time to play game 3.

The dredge player was really aweful (he couldnt make out how to stack the Bridge triggers after me blocking his Ichorid with Factory but the booze might have been an issue... he was really drunk already at 2PM :P) Eventually I just got overwhelmed eventhough I removed 3 bridges. Couldnt find any of my 8/9 outs I still had left.

High Tide was quite fun. He managed to fizzle in game 1 after which I raped his hand with Ravens Crime. I casually beat him with Tar Pits.
Game 2 he takes forever but gets there. we have 5 minuted before we go to additional turns. Im never going to make it... but he couldnt do it either. Amusing game with a really nice opponent.

I'm still unsure if I want to remove the Ravens Crimes from the main. They were really awesome all day (but it helps if you face combo 2x) I want to try Thalia in the side but currently the manabase doesnt support it with a high black requirement for Raven's Crime.

All in all its a really fun deck to play and will probably remain my goto deck when I dont feel like playing NicFit.

You can run a savannah, and Thalia in the board. Take a thicket out, and keep the Crimes. That's what I am currently doing

[TraxDaMax]

Easily answered. No.
Dark Confidant is 4 of in your side. Preferably 8 of in side if it was possible.

Actually, after typing this having 8 would probably clog up the board too much, and it almost is possible to play 8 I guess if you consider Dark Tutelage.

Has anybody actually ever tried Dark Tutelage, perhaps as a one of to get with E.Tutor?

[TiMeWaLk]

High Tide was quite fun. He managed to fizzle in game 1 after which I raped his hand with Ravens Crime. I casually beat him with Tar Pits.
Game 2 he takes forever but gets there. we have 5 minuted before we go to additional turns. Im never going to make it... but he couldnt do it either. Amusing game with a really nice opponent.

I'm still unsure if I want to remove the Ravens Crimes from the main. They were really awesome all day (but it helps if you face combo 2x) I want to try Thalia in the side but currently the manabase doesnt support it with a high black requirement for Raven's Crime.

I am your High Tide opponent :)
It was indeed an amusing game & I met a nice opponent too.

Raven's crime was good against me in the first game because I gave you a new hand with Time Spiral (TS). I do not know how efficient it would be without this. My guess is too slow, but I may be wrong.

Sorry for game 2... I played the deck for the first time IRL & I was quite slow.

If I remember correctly, you played chalice of the void at 1 in game 2... but it shuts down the raven's crime plan. I can see a little conflict here, even though chalice is very good against me.

TW

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

I am your High Tide opponent :)
It was indeed an amusing game & I met a nice opponent too.

Raven's crime was good against me in the first game because I gave you a new hand with Time Spiral (TS). I do not know how efficient it would be without this. My guess is too slow, but I may be wrong.

Sorry for game 2... I played the deck for the first time IRL & I was quite slow.

If I remember correctly, you played chalice of the void at 1 in game 2... but it shuts down the raven's crime plan. I can see a little conflict here, even though chalice is very good against me.

TW

If you can gain enough of a land advantage, you can blow your own chalice up with explosives at the end of turn, then ravens crime their hand away, the recast another one. I have done this once.... Thalia is super good though. Chalice at 3 is good too, since it shuts off Cunning Wish. I guess you run into the problem of them trying to go off on your turn though....

[Philipp2293]

I had the same problem against High Tide, with Chalice 1 and Crime conflict. (I was running your Championships list). The thought about explosives never occured to me, the best I could come up with was to set the next Chalice to 3, but he was one turn too fast.

Question: Do you think Thalia is a must play in the SB? Since your last list contains 3.

[XdeckX]

Would adding just 1 savannah be enough to support thalia? I know that against the decks where you would bring in thalia (combo mostly) do nu run land destruction but the list doesnt run that many fetchlands to actually find the needed color.
I could see taking out one Tar Pit and add a Collonade but the tar pits are much better if you ask me. Unblockable and much easier on the activation cost.

High tide will be an extremely difficult matchup. At least for the list i ran. Chalice@1 gets bounced EOT and ravens crime is really slow.

Perhaps i will run an enlightened tutor list next time I pick up Lands.

[Fizzeler]

Easily answered. No.
Dark Confidant is 4 of in your side. Preferably 8 of in side if it was possible.

Understood, I have also wondered if Barbarian Ring was worth including as a kill condition? or is Tarpit/Factory just faster/better?

I have tested with the SCG list and a few other variants and understand how to play the deck, just unsure how I want to focus my build as of now

I am looking at the Ghent list though as I like running Worm Harvest as a kill condition

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Would adding just 1 savannah be enough to support thalia? I know that against the decks where you would bring in thalia (combo mostly) do nu run land destruction but the list doesnt run that many fetchlands to actually find the needed color.
I could see taking out one Tar Pit and add a Collonade but the tar pits are much better if you ask me. Unblockable and much easier on the activation cost.

High tide will be an extremely difficult matchup. At least for the list i ran. Chalice@1 gets bounced EOT and ravens crime is really slow.

Perhaps i will run an enlightened tutor list next time I pick up Lands.

What's the Enlightened Tutor target against Combo? Cannonist? I'm not saying one is better than the other, but running a savannah is plenty of white, since there's 4 Moxes, and a Karakas, and 3-4 fetch lands. I will be running 2 Raven's Crimes in my Mainboard, as well as Thalia in the SB at the Invitational. You run 34-37 lands. The deck can support 6 colors... Lol

[UnsungHero]

Actually, after typing this having 8 would probably clog up the board too much, and it almost is possible to play 8 I guess if you consider Dark Tutelage.

Has anybody actually ever tried Dark Tutelage, perhaps as a one of to get with E.Tutor?

I have always wondered as well, if anyone has had success with Dark Tutelege. Seems just as good as Bob.

[TraxDaMax]

The good thing about it is you can find it with Tutor. I'll be goldfishing this, this week. This diversity gives the deck a serious edge I think. Opponents will have three different engines to deal with.

An enchantment, a creature, and a graveyard. This makes it even harder for them I would think.

[BlackStarDeceiver]

Hey folks, i went 3-1-1 yesterday to secure top8 /20 then won the quarterfinals and split the top 4 with 3 mates for foil Maze (getting those exchanged :D) and a FTV:Realms + some singles.


MAINDECK

4x Mox Diamond
4x Exploration
2x Manabond
4x Life from the Loam
3x Intuition
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Zuran Orb
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Cursed Totem
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Ravens Crime
1x Sylvan Library
1x Oblivion Stone

3x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Forest
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Karakas
1x Academy Ruins
4x Maze of Ith
4x Wasteland
2x Rishadan Port
3x Tranquil Thicket
3x Tolaria west
2x Creeping Tarpit
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Tower of the Magistrate
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Bojuka Bog

SIDEBOARD

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Dark Confidant
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Oblivion Stone
2x Trinisphere


I was lacking two Rishadan Ports, so i replaced them with Tower annd a 3rd Thicket, a friend forgot to bring the two missing ones he wanted to lend me.

R1 ANT

Short story: G1 T3, G2 T1 kill. He went Island, Probe, saw the two Thalias in my hand to which he had no outs and continued with Petal, Petal, LED, LED, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Ponder response crack LED's for 3B 3R and finding an Infernal Tutor in the top 3.

0 : 1

R2 Goblins

I won game one in 20 Minutes because he conceded to Glacial Chasm, Tabernacle, triple Exploration and Crucible alongside Zuran Orb when i started quartering him out of red mana.

Game 2 i messed up. I stabilized somewhere around 12 life and miscounted my mana by one when i put Crucible on to of my Library with Ruins, drew it, played it and then realized i had no mana source that comes untapped, so i could not play my Ensnaring Bridge. He drew the fourth Wasteland on his turn, blew up Chasm, dropped Krenko, Chieftain, Piledriver, activated Krenko for 10 Token an attacked me for 76, i was only able to generate 70 Life.... staring at the Ensnaring Bridge in my hand...

0 : 1 : 1

R3 Merfolks

Dropped an early Tabernacle game 1 where he forgot to pay, to which he scooped as he had 3 Standstills in hand to my Crucible, Exploration, Waste, Maze board.

Game 2 he had the fast draw with Reejerey and Double Mishra, while Forcing my Ensnaring Bridge.

Game 3 i dropped T1 Confidant, T2 Confidant, T3 Confidant/Ostone, charged them up with counters, blew the board added Tar Pit and aggrod out ;)

1 : 1 : 1

R4 Canadian Threshold

Game 1 he had Double Mungo Triple Bolt, with the last Bolt in Topdeck mode where i could have stabilized the following Turn.

Game 2 started with Wasteland, Mox, Chalice 1 which resolved. he never played another spell that game.

Game 3 i dropped T1 Exploration Mox Land #2 Loam for Fetch and Maze. Drew Wasteland -> Waste, fetch, Loam, Thalia, that game was over pretty fast when he had 2 Wastelands to my Thalia/Maze board and had to drop Needle on Wasteland not to get blown out. I transmuted Tolaria West into Ghostquarter and went on.

2 : 1 : 1

R5 Smallpox

Well nothing special happened, he messed up, i messed up, i won with a bit of luck because he did not see the small window which would have killed me in retrospect.

3 : 1 : 1 7th

Quarters against UWR Blade

G1 Lands did what Lands does to Blade.
G2 Lands did what Lands does to Blade. I resolved an early Chalice 2 with Crucbile on board with Waste and Quarter in Grave.

[bartmanqc]

Played against an Omniscience/Show&Tell deck this week. Do we have any chance against this?

G1 He just T2 Show & Tell for omniscience, combo kill me
G2 I drew Waste, Thalia and chalice on 1, He managed to burning wish for pyroclasm, killing my thalia, show and telled for omniscience/Griselbrand and combo killed me again..

I had 0 chances..

What is the match plan against this deck?

[BlackStarDeceiver]

Trinisphere out of the board is awesome against them. Oblivion Ring handles all of their stuff as well.

[Phelix]

chalice for 2 is also what you want vs omni.

and above poster is correct, that Trinisphere(or any sphere effect) is very good here. Its a considerably worse matchup than when they used to just squeeze som dude into play, but its not completly lost.

[BlackStarDeceiver]

Of course Chalice 2, i did not think about mentioning this explicitely ;)

Trinisphere makes them skip the turn after the Show and Tell. Try to get Rishadan Ports to hinder them from casting anything relevant, while trying to cripple their mana further. You can't effectively race them so you should try to get down Thalia or Chalice 2 fast, while holding Trinisphere in hand.

As mentioned before you could try Oblivion Rings, as they handle every single threat dropped off a Show and Tell without giving them a window to play a second Omniscience.

The best thing they can do is draw 7 (14) off Griselbrand.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Could this new set have any more graveyard hate? Makes me wanna run 2 explosives main board. Thoughts?

[cuthbertthecat]

Could this new set have any more graveyard hate? Makes me wanna run 2 explosives main board. Thoughts?

I was thinking that too. Also, I think a valid strategy might be just conceding game one rapidly to hate and crushing games 2 and 3 with bob/dark tutelage if maverick and similar decks do become over-saturated with graveyard hate.

[door]

Maverick won't run Rest in Peace cause it hits their KoTRs. But they might play 1 Dryad Militant as a zenith target.
With each new block there are more and more cards that hit Lands so much... :frown:

[Fizzeler]

Militant can be removed at least where as RIP you will need to have Enchant hate in the board if it gets popular, but the only decks that want RIP are decks that don't utilize their own GY like Death And Taxes and Enchantress

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

SCG Atlanta Results (even the bad ones).... Here we go!

R1 - UW Blade - 1-2
I win G1, he races G2, and Game 3 He has Geist of Saint Traft, with a Jitte, and he extracted my LftL, and has just enough to kill me Turn 4 of turns. Even if I had Glacial Chasm, he still top decks the Wasteland.

R2 - Maverick - 2-0
I Ravens Crime him, discards a land, play a Diamond, Pass, he plays Savannah, MoRuins, and I waste lock him until I make him discard his hand. Ghost Quarter Also Helped. I land Lock/Cursed Totem him G2, and when he concedes, he shows me the Harmonic in his hand.

R3 - Merfolk - 1-2
I resolve Bridge G1, and he scoops. He races me with the lords G2, and G3, he has Catcher, 2 SilverGill, 2 LoA, 2 Rejeerey, Master, and Coralhelm out, with like... 6 lands. I EoT Intuition for Bridge, Chasm, and Ruins. I get back the Lands, play both lands, and pass. He has 0 cards in hand, and draws the Wasteland. Must be nice....

R4 - UB Death Shadow - 1-1-1
I win G1 very slowly, and then he just has Jace G2. Not Realizing he as at 6, I fear the Jace, and start swinging at it. when I realized 2 hits would kill him, I swung him down to 3, and he flashed in Clique and had just enough to finish me off.... Punted. Game 3 it comes down to turns, he's at 3. He has Clique, Jace, Death Shadow X 2, and a Snapcaster. I have 6 lands in play. Turn one, I activate TarPit, and say "Well here is to hoping you don't have the Dismember..." he shows me dismember, and then I say, OK, I will tap Tarpit for a mana, and tap the other 2 and played E Bridge. Then we drew. Jerk move on my part, but A Draw is a lot better than a loss, If I can manage to Day 2.

Sadly to say, I didnt Day 2.... lol. I went 2-2 in standard. I know this isn't a standard Forum, but I do want to mention this... So My opponent has 1 Card in hand, UR land, Island, Mountain He has Koth on the Board. I have Gideon, and Pondered the previous turn. I Draw, Play land 7, and Play Karn Liberated. He looks at his hand, and is like, well..... Thought Scour Myself, mills 2 lands, and draws a Mana Leak.... and to make matters worse, I forget to swing at his Koth because of the Tilt Ratio, and He top decks Karn the next turn.... fml, right? anyways.
Better luck next time, right? I still have another invite... we will see where they have the first one next year...

Win a Box (getting Desperate here...)

R1 - UW Stoneblade 2-1
I win game one fairly easily with Ravens Crime and locing him out. He beats me G2 with Extraction, and the beats. Game 3 goes on for like over an hour. He Extracts Loam turn 5. He swords all my Bobs, and I have Mazes for DAYS!. Waste hit a tundra, and I Have enough Ports to handle the basics. He ends up getting 4 white sources, with StP in hand, and He Plays a Jace. I have to Port his White on Upkeep, then porth them again in my main phase, and swing at Jace, so Jace is netting 1 counter every 2 turns. I Have Ruins out, and toward the end of the game, I Draw Crucible, and Own his White sources, and start beating his Land Base down while killing Jace. He began to fail to find, and I knew I had the game. there was a guy who was like, "I thought you were going to scoop after turn 10"... and I responded by "I thought you were going to stop watching on turn 11..." it went like 40 turns.. Miserable...

R2 - RUG Delver - 2-0
"I thought you were going to scoop after turn 10" Guy was my opponent. and He was playing RUG Delver. Needless to say, after seeing everything my deck had to offer, He did not stand a Chance. People think they know how to play against the deck, until they sit across from you... all that confidence and credibility just goes right out the window.

R3 - He is playing Junk. He has Loam in the MB, and a Bog.... we split the stupid Box of M13.... with is was Ravnica....

I understand everyone has their own opinions about lands. I did the Thalia Tricks, and it has only panned out for me once. I go Back to the Basics, with minor Changes to the SB -

4 Chalice
4 Dark Confidant
2 Krosan Grip
1 Explosives
1 E Bridge
2 Trinisphere
1 Cursed Totem

Legacy Challenge

R1 - OmniTell - 2-1
He destroys me Game 1 with Burning for living for Emrakul. Go Figure. Game 2 I Play T1 Confidant, with Trinisphere in Hand, and I also have 2 Ports and a Waste and a Loam. I Kill him with 2 Bobs, while Porting and Wasting his lands. Game 3 I get a Confidant out, and then I start drawing crazy cards. I start the game with a Trinisphere in hand. I Dredge Loam, Reveal a Trinisphere, and then I Academy Ruins it, then I Try and Play it, tapping my ports. he has 7 cards in hand. He is like, well, can't have that resolving, FoW's it, he Taps 3, Slams Show and Tell, and I reveal Trinisphere to the Omniscience. then I continue to Ghose quarter his basics away, and he dies...

R2 - Kobold Beast Master Glimpse Cheerios Deck - 2-0
Tabernacle is a real card.... and apparently so is Wasteland... Game 2 he drops guys, I chalice for both 0 and 1, and then he drops Beast master's Ascension on turn 3, and I have Explosives in hand...
R3 - Ad Nauseum - 2-1
He kills me G1 through 5 ravens Crimes, and then Game 2, I mull to 4. Keep Crime, Chasm, Chalice, Sphere. Stick Chalice for 0, and I proceed to draw a Bob, which draws me more land, which allows me to cast Trinisphere. He in responses Taps 5 Mana, and casts Ad Nauseum... Not sure why, because he can still cast it after Trinisphere resolves.... idk. Game 3 I Went t1 Bob, he preordained, and then I revealed 3Sphere, and he had no way to deal with it in his sideboard. Not sure why he didnt.. but Luck sacking 3 Combo Deks makes a lands player feel pretty good.

R4 - UWR Miracles
His first time with the deck. We play Game 1, and he messes up like idk, 8 or 9 times, and doesn't kill me... I think I'm at 1 for the longest time... and Just cant find Zuran Orb. He starts doing the Jace Dance, but no Tolaria wests. Im doing the Jace Dance from above, except I'm swinging at him, because I have Academy Ruins out. We go to Turns, and ON turn 5 of turns, I ports the rest of his White Sources, and Swing. He extends his hand, and says, "There is nothing I can do! All I have in my hand is there 4 Swords to Plowshares, and I Can't Gain like with My Germ because of Maze of Ith......" and when we shake hands, I thank him for not StP'ing any of his 3 Guys.... lol
Thank the lord for the new legacy community, right?

So Down to Business - Legacy Open

R1 - Merfolk - 2-1
He wins game 1 with a Wasteland on Chasm. But this guy actually already had it.
+4 Bob +1 EE +1 Bridge
-3 Intuition -2 Mamabond -1 Raven's Crime
I Win Game 2 with E Bridge lock and 15 minutes to Go Scoop
He has the Pressure, and 2 LoA in play, and I transmute TWest, and say, "I am going to get and play Tabernacle. He picks it up and reads it, then puts it back down, I say Go, and this guy draws his card. Then He calls a judge, and says, I never annouced playing the land, and it should be in my hand, and I remind everybody there that, "Lands does not pass turns without playing lands.... then his defense is that it's not too late to go back. I tell him there is no going Back, and I Kill him with Tarpit on Turn 1 of Turns.

1-0

R2 - Team Italia - 0-2
He comes on strong, and I Draw the Exploration I need to Chasm Lock him out of the Game. I am at 3 though, so I Need to be careful. I begin to strategize a plan to get the Orb next turn, and just get out of the deep water, and failed to port the lands i had been locking down, and he draws land 3 and Vindicates my Chasm... tilt.
+4 Chalice +1 EE +1 E Bridge +2 Grip
-3 Intuit -3 Crimes -2 Bond
Game 2 I look at a good hand, with no mazes, but a mox, and I mulligan. then I draw a hand with 1 lands, and Mulligan. then I draw a 5 card hand, which was <= to my original 7. I Play a land, he takes my Chalice, and I just get curb stomped....

1-1

(Smoked like 4 cigarettes after that one... pretty flustered)

R3 Burn - 2-1
Went in blind with an Intuition, Orb, Manabond Mox, 3 Lands. Pretty sweet, right? lol
+4 Chalice +1 EE +1 Cursed Totem -3 Crimes, -1 Thicket, -1 Karakas -1 Intuition
Cursed Totem, really? Shuts down Vexing Shusher.... anyways, I keep a shaky hand, and after Chalicing for 1 and 2, He draws the Fireblast the turn before I kill him.
G3 - Chalice for 1 Turn 2 is good. I have Orb in my opener. I drop a Manabond, but don't go crazy yet. I Play an EE for 3, then go bonkers. I survived a 32 (16) Damage Price of Progress.. lol. He draws a vortex, but it is way too late, and I have the EE. GG sir.

2-1

R4 - RUG Delver - 2-0
I Waste-lock him out of the game. and he scoops.
+4 Chalice +1 EE +1 E Bridge +2 Krosan Grip
-3 Crime -3 Intuition -2 Manabond
Then the inexperience against the deck and the lack of knowledge, he did not SB in Artifact hate, and I won with Chalice and Bridge.

3-1

R5 - UR Painter - 1-2
He kills me turn 3 Game 1, then we get a deck-check. Takes forever.
+4 Chalice +4 Confidant +2 Krosan Grip +2 Trinisphere +1 Cursed Totem
-3 Intuition -2 Manabond -3 Ravens Crime -1 Glacial Chasm -1 Zuran Orb - 1 Thicket -2 Maze of Ith
I win G2 with Confidant and Trinisphere. Very Grind Game, but Ports got there.
Game 3 - Mox, Ruins, Trinisphere, Port, Port, Waste, Loam. I Keep. He mulls to 6. Keeps, I think, hey, that's good he Mulligan's. He opens up with Tomb, Grindstone, Top, pass... Well, now the plan is flawed to play 3Sphere Turn 2, I change plans. I draw a Bob. Play Diamond, and Waste the Tomb. 3 Cards in hand, he draws. He goes City of Traitors, Painter Servant, LED, Kill you. My luck from the invitational had come back...

3-2

R6 - Lands - 1-0-1
I could probably write up a huge explanation of the 2 matches, but Ill sum it up. I had Exploration G1, and he did not.
+4 Confidant +1 EE +2 Krosan Grip -3 Maze of Ith -1 Tabernacle -1 Karakas
Then on Game 2, he had Exploration, I had Manabond (which is better in the Mirror). and then he draws Crucible (which is even more insane in the Mirror). the game goes to time, he concedes the match, and we get to talking about the deck, and he loves it, and asks questions, and I Tol him about the site, so he may be another person to teach and learn from. I have learn from playing the Mirror how the games go. Exploration<Manabond<Crucible+Exploration<Crucible+Bog+Zuran Orb.

4-2

R7 - UR Delver - 2-0
This Guy gets me to 1, and I stabilize with Orb and Chasm. He tilted out.
+4 Chalice +1 E Bridge -2 Raven's Crimes -2 Manabond
He Spikes me, I play land. He deals me 4 more, takes me to 11. I play Chalice for 1. He doesn't cast another spell for like.... 9 turns. He has tons of lands. I have Orb online, and Chasm at my disposal, but I just end up getting Chalice for 2, then Chalice for 6, and he nearly quit playing Magic...

5-2

R8 - Junk - 2-0
He lead with a Mom, and I wasted his land, and then I completely shut him out of mana, with a Tabernacle.
+1 Cursed Totem +4 Confidant +1 Bridge +1 EE
-3 Raven's Crime - 2 Manabond -2 Intuition
He mulligan's to 5, and its unfortunate for him, so the match was very one sided. He lead with a Hierarch, played a Stoneforge, then got Batterskull into play, but the was out of cards, and I had loam, Explosives, Maze, Tabernacle.

6-2

R9 - Merfolk - 2-0
He knows what I'm playing, but I'm going in blind. He Mulls to 5, and takes me to 3 before I Ravens Crime him to Death, and recur Explosives.
-2 Manabond -3 Intuition -1 Raven's Crime +4 Dark Confidant +1 Engineered Explosives +1 Ensnaring Bridge
I Explosives his Vial away when it is at 1. He mulls to 6 this game. Started playing Folk, and I got Academy Ruins, Chasm, and a Maze or 2 to only fall to 13 before resolving Ensnaring Bridge.

Finished the Day at 7-2, 20th place (They Mentioned a lot of ppl below 16th place, but not me - ah well, guess I haven't kissed enough star city ass yet :/). So Overall I got $100 cash, $50 SCG Credit (which is like $17.85 in real money), and 18 packs of M13. Definitely not worth driving 12 hours to Atlanta (we did Carpool), but I met a lot of great people, and we had a blast. Hope to see some of you in Cincinnati! Let me know if you have any questions.

[door]

R2 - RUG Delver - 2-0
"I thought you were going to scoop after turn 10" Guy was my opponent. and He was playing RUG Delver. Needless to say, after seeing everything my deck had to offer, He did not stand a Chance. People think they know how to play against the deck, until they sit across from you... all that confidence and credibility just goes right out the window.

Made my day!
Thank you for your report. Do you think after the release of Rest in Peace Lands will loose its power?

[Anen]

Made my day!
Thank you for your report. Do you think after the release of Rest in Peace Lands will loose its power?

Definitely not. White deck that don't use their graveyard as well are not legion. Maverick and The Rock got KotR. D&T and Enchantress (and it kicks Replenish) are underplayed . But Deadguy will play it.

[Lord Seth]

Played against an Omniscience/Show&Tell deck this week. Do we have any chance against this?Well, a Goblins player had Angels of Despair in his sideboard just for that matchup, but if you want a card that has uses outside of just that, and that you can potentially hardcast, there is good ol' Oblivion Ring.

[UnsungHero]

If Rest in Peace catches on, or if for some reason Countertop is bothersome, you could always play Seal of Cleansing or Aura of Silence (Double white may be troublesome) with the Enlightened Tutor package. Oblivion Ring is good as well and as stated before useful against the Show/Science deck.

[Fizzeler]

Took my lands deck to a local Legacy tournament this weekend went 2-1-1

My loss was to Goblins,

Game 1 I had the nuts hand and locked him turn 4-5, knowing very well he was locked he scooped.

Game 2 I board in an E-Tutor, and 2 Trinispheres (Thalia, Bob, and Chalice were not going to help), his deck did what Goblins does flood the board I stabilize at 4 with a chasm for awhile, but mistankingly I Intuition for Loam, Loam, Zuran Orb, I realize now that the Zuran Orb should have been Tolaria West, but was just thinking I could Loam into it later. For Awhile I juggle with Chasm till he draws a Crypt and I scoop it up

Game 3 he just gets really aggressive really quickly and I can't stabilize, after the game he asks how I beat Blood Moon, I replied O-Stone and EE. Lesson learned add Enchantment hate to the board, any artifacts that destroy enchantments

I ID with a guy playing Ad Nauseum, we play it out anyway.

I lose Game 1 on turn 4 Tendrils. Game 2 Thalia + Trinisphere won me the game. Game 3 was interesting, his deck was screwing him and I kept dropping Chalices, when he can go off I had Zuran Orb out and Crucible, I left from time, but realized Zuran Orb is really the quickest way to win this

I need more practice with this deck, but from what I have seen and done with it I can definitely say it is perfect for my local meta, just wish I could win game 1 with more than 15 minutes left on the clock

[TraxDaMax]

Took my lands deck to a local Legacy tournament this weekend went 2-1-1

My loss was to Goblins,

Game 1 I had the nuts hand and locked him turn 4-5, knowing very well he was locked he scooped.

Game 2 I board in an E-Tutor, and 2 Trinispheres (Thalia, Bob, and Chalice were not going to help), his deck did what Goblins does flood the board I stabilize at 4 with a chasm for awhile, but mistankingly I Intuition for Loam, Loam, Zuran Orb, I realize now that the Zuran Orb should have been Tolaria West, but was just thinking I could Loam into it later. For Awhile I juggle with Chasm till he draws a Crypt and I scoop it up

Game 3 he just gets really aggressive really quickly and I can't stabilize, after the game he asks how I beat Blood Moon, I replied O-Stone and EE. Lesson learned add Enchantment hate to the board, any artifacts that destroy enchantments

I ID with a guy playing Ad Nauseum, we play it out anyway.

I lose Game 1 on turn 4 Tendrils. Game 2 Thalia + Trinisphere won me the game. Game 3 was interesting, his deck was screwing him and I kept dropping Chalices, when he can go off I had Zuran Orb out and Crucible, I left from time, but realized Zuran Orb is really the quickest way to win this

I need more practice with this deck, but from what I have seen and done with it I can definitely say it is perfect for my local meta, just wish I could win game 1 with more than 15 minutes left on the clock

Curious what others think about siding in trinisphere in the goblins matchup. For some reason I can't really see why this would be good against them.
Personally I would board more removal. EE and Oblivion stone seem better to me.

Edit: I have been very happy with a Dark Tutelage maindeck.

[Fizzeler]

Curious what others think about siding in trinisphere in the goblins matchup. For some reason I can't really see why this would be good against them.
Personally I would board more removal. EE and Oblivion stone seem better to me.

Edit: I have been very happy with a Dark Tutelage maindeck.

I didn't board them out, I should have just boarded in 2 E-Tutor and Sphere Of Resistance, I found Trinisphere to be really bad, not because it didn't slow him down (it did), but because it is to slow against Goblins, adding in another EE (if I can get one) to my board as well, the card is just very good and being able to tutor for it via West is great in a bind

[Resist_Temptation]

I took lands to two different weekly events in my area, and the deck just performed. I am incredibly impressed as, I have never really given the deck much of a shot until recently. There is finally enough combo hate for me to get behind.

Week 1
Round 1. 2-0. I played against welder mud. Ugh game 1 he chalices for 0 on turn 1, he played another one at two, so awesome when your opponent knows what you are playing and I e.e. his chalices away. I then lock the game up with wastelands and crucible. G2 I wreck him with turn one diamond and port. Multiple wastelands also help.

Round 2. 2-0. I play against rug delver, and just waste lock him.

Round 3. 0-2.I play against omni show... Terrible matchup and get t2'ed and t1'ed. I think I am going to try one owing in my sideboard as a possible etutor target?

Round 4. 2-1. I play against bant blade. G1 I keep a loose one and my opponent kills me with a noble hierarch exalted trigger. G2 goes to just about time, but I end up killing all his lands, and have ten minutes left.G3 I board in my thalias and bobs and the extra factory. I go on the beat down and win during turn 3 of extra turns.

Overall 3-1. Not too bad after never having actually played the deck. And did not have any matches draw!

Week 2
Round 1. 2-0. I played against Dredge and have a single bog main. It got there. Game two he must have kept an all in hand with one dredger, led, and looting. It got him a ways but turn 2 I was able to tolaria for the bog and head to round 2.

Round 2. 0-2. I played against my friend with enchantress and game one he got me with print on my crucible and a very quick assembling of a clock. Game two I got turn 2 blood moon played against me... I lose this one.

Round 3. 2-0. Dredge again. Find bog, rinse, repeat.

Round 4. 2-1. Another game that nearly goes to time. We start game three with less than seven minutes left. Leave in a misers chalice and my Thalia's and bobs... Turn 1 chalice at 0 followed by turn 2 bob and turn 3 bob + Thalia. I get him good.

Another 3-1 finish. Overall I believe that I am understanding the deck does not have many matchups that are deemed unwinnable, but if loos moon is played in my area, should I try running a couple Korean grips, or even oring might come in handy.

For reference my list is

3 tropical island
1 bayou
1 savannah
2 windswept Heath
1 wooded foothills
1 verdant catacombs
1 misty rainforest
1 forest
1 karakas
1 ghost quarter
1 creeping tarpit
3 tolaria west
4 rishadan port
3 maze of ith
4 wasteland
1 glacial chasm
1 tabernacle
1 mishras factory
2 tranquil thicket
1 academy ruins
1 Bojuka bog

4 exploration
1 manabond
1 crop rotation
4 mox diamond
4 life frm the loam
1 crucible of worlds
1 ensnaring bridge
1 cursed totem
1 zuran orb
1 engineered explosives
3 intuition
3 enlightened tutor


Sideboard
3 thalia, guardian of threaten
4 dark confidant
4 chalice of the void
1 mishras factory
1 tormod's crypt
1 engineered explosives
1 oblivion stone

I think I wanna swap the main deck cursed totem out for something but I am not really sure. It seem like people on here are a fan of ravens crime, but that would mean maybe 2 slots for crime and one more for an urborg?

[TraxDaMax]

I think I wanna swap the main deck cursed totem out for something but I am not really sure. It seem like people on here are a fan of ravens crime, but that would mean maybe 2 slots for crime and one more for an urborg?

Nice reports.

Personally I really like Oblivion Stone maindeck. Yes, it wrecks our stuff too. But normally we should be ahead in board position anyway. And we can always get back to ramping with Mox Diamonds if that would be needed.

[BlackStarDeceiver]

I do still advocate the Oblivion Ring(s) in the board or in the main if you feel like it because they are autowin against Show and Tell, especially in versions playing the Enlightened Tutors.

Show will still be a bad matchup, whereas Riftstone Portal is pretty helpful against Blood Moons.

What do you guys think of Sacred Grounds? We got 1-2-3 Maverick/Rock decks around that play Armageddon, due to Miracle.dec and multiple Goblins so relying on Glacial Chasm is pretty risky sometimes.

[ESG]

Ugh game 1 he chalices for 0 on turn 1, he played another one at two, so awesome when your opponent knows what you are playing and I e.e. his chalices away.

How did you EE his Chalices away if he had one set at zero?

[fdiv_bug]

How did you EE his Chalices away if he had one set at zero?

You can pump 1 colorless mana into casting it. That way X will be 1 when it's cast and on the stack, thus dodging the two Chalices, but sunburst won't see any colored mana, so it won't have any charge counters when it enters the battlefield. So when it's detonated it will blow up CMC 0 stuff, such as said Chalices.

EE and sunburst are both pretty awesome. :smile:

[TraxDaMax]

You can pump 1 colorless mana into casting it. That way X will be 1 when it's cast and on the stack, thus dodging the two Chalices, but sunburst won't see any colored mana, so it won't have any charge counters when it enters the battlefield. So when it's detonated it will blow up CMC 0 stuff, such as said Chalices.

EE and sunburst are both pretty awesome. :smile:

Same works if you want to try and dodge Counterbalance with EE.

[ESG]

Ah, excellent. I've had experience with adjusting sunburst and CMC to beat Counterbalance, but I've never run into that particular situation, so I wasn't even thinking of colorless mana. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for clarifying.

[Resist_Temptation]

Ah, excellent. I've had experience with adjusting sunburst and CMC to beat Counterbalance, but I've never run into that particular situation, so I wasn't even thinking of colorless mana. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for clarifying.

I had to do some shenanigans against counterbalance, and had to convince my opponent it worked correctly.

[BlackStarDeceiver]

Went 5-0-1 for 1st/41 today with Lands

R1 1-0-1 against Goblin
R2 2-0 against Goblins
R3 2-0 against Reanimator
R4 1-0-1 against Comboelves
R5 2-0 against Maverick
R6 ID against Terminator, i won the first Game then offered the draw to him because we would never get to game 3 and i was the only 5-0 at that point.

I will type up a bit more the next days if you like, got myself a nice NM+ German FBB Scrubland for making people wait in round 1 and 4 ;)

[Resist_Temptation]

I have skimmed my way through most of the threads, and cannot really find out how people feel about sylvan library. Is it worth running in a list that has access to etutor? And also what could be cut from a sideboard if I were to run Orings in my board. My meta has stone blade, maverick, burn, dredge, and a show player. My sideboard right now is 4 Chalice, 4 Dark confidant, 3 Thalia, 1 Oblivion ring, 1 Cursed totem, 1 Oblivion stone, 1 Engineered Explosives.

[cuthbertthecat]

I have skimmed my way through most of the threads, and cannot really find out how people feel about sylvan library. Is it worth running in a list that has access to etutor? And also what could be cut from a sideboard if I were to run Orings in my board. My meta has stone blade, maverick, burn, dredge, and a show player. My sideboard right now is 4 Chalice, 4 Dark confidant, 3 Thalia, 1 Oblivion ring, 1 Cursed totem, 1 Oblivion stone, 1 Engineered Explosives.

Lands is a lot about personal preference, I didn't like it when I tested it with Tutors but I know some people who have, I just can't ever imagine tutoring for it. You're not wrong for running it though.

I would cut the O-Stone, it has bad synergy with O-Ring and they probably come in for similar matchups.

[KntrellCL]

Hi, Im new at this page. Some friend of mine (we are from Chile, South america) recommended me this page and it's awesome how many new ideas and opinions i can get from you guys.

I've been playing lands for 2 weeks now and it's been really challenging because of it's nature and my current metagame here (a lot of gobbos, burn and maverick). So I modified my 36-Lands version to a "Punishing Lands" deck.

The Land's Path:

Instants [9]
2 Intuition
4 Entomb
3 Punishing Fire

Sorceries [4]
4 Life from the Loam

Enchantments [5]
4 Exploration
1 Sylvan Library

Artifacts [7]
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Zuran Orb
4 Mox Diamond

Lands [36]
1 Academy Ruins
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Taiga
3 Tropical Island
1 Karakas
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs

SB [15]

4 Dark Confidant
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Cursed Totem
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip

I went with this version to a tourney yesterday and I did 2-2-0 (i misplayed on draw matches). Punishing Fire gave me the outs I needed to stand against Gobbos and complety destroyed an Stompy Infect creatures. It's a recurrent burn spell which can take any small creature from the field. You can dredge it with loam or just entomb on late game. I dont like Manabond with Intuition, because intuition is one of the best cards on my deck, if I play manabond on turn 1.... do I really want to discard my intuition? or should I just wait until turn 3 to play it? It doesnt make any sense to me. Now, with this new "engine" I have new targets for my intuition... simply as LFTL+Grove+Punishing Fire... or late game for 3 P.Fire... for 1 life... you can gain back 3 P.Fire and take 3 small creatures... or 6 damage to him.
Any suggestions?

[KntrellCL]

I have skimmed my way through most of the threads, and cannot really find out how people feel about sylvan library. Is it worth running in a list that has access to etutor? And also what could be cut from a sideboard if I were to run Orings in my board. My meta has stone blade, maverick, burn, dredge, and a show player. My sideboard right now is 4 Chalice, 4 Dark confidant, 3 Thalia, 1 Oblivion ring, 1 Cursed totem, 1 Oblivion stone, 1 Engineered Explosives.



I played Sylvan library, because it's a real CA for green. Also, you can do a lot of crazy things with Sylva Library and LFTL on GY... and i mean CRAZY... you can save the first card, dredge the 2nd 3rd and 4th cards and see de 5th.... or just draw the first two cards (which should been known by now) and dredge de 3rd 4th and 5th... you can keep any of those cards if you want for 4 life (or just cycle for free)... in the first case... the only random card you will dredge is the 4th, but 2nd-3th should been cards that you want on your GY.

This is just a normal case with Sylvan Library (1 LFTL).... if you dredge for the first draw... then another LFTL goes to GY... you can dredge again!... if you have 3 LFTL you can dredge for 9.... and return no cards! cause no cards has been draw this turn!

[cuthbertthecat]

Hi, Im new at this page. Some friend of mine (we are from Chile, South america) recommended me this page and it's awesome how many new ideas and opinions i can get from you guys.

I've been playing lands for 2 weeks now and it's been really challenging because of it's nature and my current metagame here (a lot of gobbos, burn and maverick). So I modified my 36-Lands version to a "Punishing Lands" deck.

The Land's Path:

Instants [9]
2 Intuition
4 Entomb
3 Punishing Fire

Sorceries [4]
4 Life from the Loam

Enchantments [5]
4 Exploration
1 Sylvan Library

Artifacts [7]
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Zuran Orb
4 Mox Diamond

Lands [36]
1 Academy Ruins
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Taiga
3 Tropical Island
1 Karakas
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs

SB [15]

4 Dark Confidant
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Cursed Totem
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip

I went with this version to a tourney yesterday and I did 2-2-0 (i misplayed on draw matches). Punishing Fire gave me the outs I needed to stand against Gobbos and complety destroyed an Stompy Infect creatures. It's a recurrent burn spell which can take any small creature from the field. You can dredge it with loam or just entomb on late game. I dont like Manabond with Intuition, because intuition is one of the best cards on my deck, if I play manabond on turn 1.... do I really want to discard my intuition? or should I just wait until turn 3 to play it? It doesnt make any sense to me. Now, with this new "engine" I have new targets for my intuition... simply as LFTL+Grove+Punishing Fire... or late game for 3 P.Fire... for 1 life... you can gain back 3 P.Fire and take 3 small creatures... or 6 damage to him.
Any suggestions?

If you test a bit with lists with no fires, you'll find that the matchups against maverick, goblins, and burn are all actually very good already and that the fires just help you win a bit faster sometimes. On manabond with intuition, in my list I only run 3 intuition and 2 manabond, so the chances of drawing them together isn't too high, also against most decks just resolving intuition wins you the game anyway, so waiting to trigger the manabond until afterwards doesn't really hurt you too much. I also board out manabond and intuition in almost every matchup, so you only have to worry about that interaction occurring one of three games.

[KntrellCL]

If you test a bit with lists with no fires, you'll find that the matchups against maverick, goblins, and burn are all actually very good already and that the fires just help you win a bit faster sometimes. On manabond with intuition, in my list I only run 3 intuition and 2 manabond, so the chances of drawing them together isn't too high, also against most decks just resolving intuition wins you the game anyway, so waiting to trigger the manabond until afterwards doesn't really hurt you too much. I also board out manabond and intuition in almost every matchup, so you only have to worry about that interaction occurring one of three games.

mmm as you said... it doesnt hurt TOO MUCH... when it could be "IT DOESNT HURT"... also, i tried to put all the cards i could take advantage from dredging such as any card on the list except for exploration and library... if Im dredging... i dont really really need entomb or intuition.

About match ups... maverick plays ooze on main deck... which is very dificult to get rid off.... burn plays PoP (at least 3) and gobbos can waste the chasm lock... so I think this matches are really hard for this deck.

I dont have much experience with lands, but I do with control decks (also control decks with loam)... and this matches are difficult to any control deck.

[cuthbertthecat]

mmm as you said... it doesnt hurt TOO MUCH... when it could be "IT DOESNT HURT"... also, i tried to put all the cards i could take advantage from dredging such as any card on the list except for exploration and library... if Im dredging... i dont really really need entomb or intuition.

About match ups... maverick plays ooze on main deck... which is very dificult to get rid off.... burn plays PoP (at least 3) and gobbos can waste the chasm lock... so I think this matches are really hard for this deck.

I dont have much experience with lands, but I do with control decks (also control decks with loam)... and this matches are difficult to any control deck.

My list plays cursed totem and enlightened tutor to beat ooze, zuran orb to beat price, and tabernacle to beat goblins. I'm undefeated in all three of those matchups between mtgo and paper for what it's worth, though I haven't played against burn all that much in paper and my mtgo sideboard has a circle of protection red in it.

[KntrellCL]

I really like enlightened tutor toolbox... but entomb puts LFTL on GY turn 1 which is also very nice... it's a hard call. I also play tabernacle, but goblins still are a very hard fight for me. Can you give some advices/tips for those match ups? If you are undefeated... it's a whole diferent statement from mine, probably Im aproaching on a wrong way against those decks.

[cuthbertthecat]

I really like enlightened tutor toolbox... but entomb puts LFTL on GY turn 1 which is also very nice... it's a hard call. I also play tabernacle, but goblins still are a very hard fight for me. Can you give some advices/tips for those match ups? If you are undefeated... it's a whole diferent statement from mine, probably Im aproaching on a wrong way against those decks.

The enlightened tutors do kinda break the goblins and maverick matchups, maverick has a hard time with cursed totem and goblins can't usually beat ensnaring bridge game 1. I guess my plan against them is mostly enlightened tutor based, which could explain why you're having trouble. Also, intuition is especially insane against goblins; you can either get loam tabernacle chasm/tolaria/whetever or bridge ruins loam. The other thing with Maverick is that if you're going to lose game 1 to ooze, just scoop. You have a better chance to win games 2 and 3 with bobs than you do to recover from ooze.

[TraxDaMax]

I really like enlightened tutor toolbox... but entomb puts LFTL on GY turn 1 which is also very nice... it's a hard call. I also play tabernacle, but goblins still are a very hard fight for me. Can you give some advices/tips for those match ups? If you are undefeated... it's a whole diferent statement from mine, probably Im aproaching on a wrong way against those decks.

The only way I see us having major problems with goblins is if they start with t1 lackey and we can't maze it. Though perhaps if you are having trouble with them, Darkblast seems legit. Especially with Entomb. If you are on the play you can EOT entomb, dredge back your darkblast and kill their lackey. Might not be as good as I see it, but it could be worth a slot. It's good vs Elves, Maverick, URburn etc aswell.

[Resist_Temptation]

This is just a question about sideboard preferences, I have noticed that Mr. Kovacs took his lands list to 2 very well finishes in the past 6 months, and what kind of a meta calls for the ravens crime package, and are the trinispheres in the sideboard supposed to be for the omni tell matchup? (I also know that they do wonders in the any/tes/storm matchup)

I have been trying two O-rings in the sideboard for the omni tell matchup, but just have not put up positive results. Is trinisphere a better option for this slot?

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

This is just a question about sideboard preferences, I have noticed that Mr. Kovacs took his lands list to 2 very well finishes in the past 6 months, and what kind of a meta calls for the ravens crime package, and are the trinispheres in the sideboard supposed to be for the omni tell matchup? (I also know that they do wonders in the any/tes/storm matchup)

I have been trying two O-rings in the sideboard for the omni tell matchup, but just have not put up positive results. Is trinisphere a better option for this slot?

I consider it 4 good finishes, with 1st in Detroit, 8th in legacy Champs, and 2 back to back 20th places at Scg's. It's all personal preference. I don't like Thalia. I tried her, and it seems bad, since good player know you board into creatures. I don't like Enlightened Tutor either. It's all just my opinion. Cuthbertthecat has also done very well with those cards, and if he traveled as much as I did, he would probably have similar results. Trinisphere is a bomb card, and I love it against combo decks, and even in some other matches. Thalia doesn't win you the omniscience match. Trinisphere does. If you control their land base like you should, when they get the chance to drop the Ancient tomb, fetch, and Show n Tell, Trinisphere will shut them off of any chance they have of killing you. This is my opinion, and in no way am I saying that others are bad for their choices. I played Stax for 3 years.... Trinisphere is a tank.

[movingtonewao]

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_lands_with_jacob_bau.html

what do you think of this guy's take? 4 gambles in the maindeck, and abrupt decay in the sideboard.

[Anen]

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_lands_with_jacob_bau.html

what do you think of this guy's take? 4 gambles in the maindeck, and abrupt decay in the sideboard.

Well Gamble has already been discussed many times..
About Decay, I have never failed a Krosan Grip on Counterbalance ever so it is definitely a bad replacement as it doesn't hit Leyline of the Void..

[movingtonewao]

it hits blood moon though, but is that enough to warrant a spot?

[Anen]

it hits blood moon though, but is that enough to warrant a spot?

You need a mox & your basic forest to cast Decay under Blood Moon. You just need one of them to cast Grip. Grip doesn't hit magus, but who the hell plays magus anyway ? At least Blood Moon is in some SnT SB.
Does Grip/Decay warrant a spot in your SB ? That is another question. Personally, I will never go out without at least 2 Grips. Meta choice I guess..

[Resist_Temptation]

I apologize for missing that Legacy Champs finish! I did not see that one, and I think I am going to give a non e-tutor build a shot at the next week legacy event, and see how it plays. There are a few omnitell players at my shop, and that matchup has been abysmal. Raven's crime seems pretty good against all the slow grindy decks in my meta.

[Anen]

Lands with Bill Comminos vs RUG Delver with Todd Anderson now live on the SCG Live Coverage. 48 minutes to go :)

Edit : Lands won g1 in 4 minutes with Exploration, Loam and Wasteland.
² Bill went 6-2 and finished 19th/204.