[Deck] UbaStax

[emidln]

All lights are dark in the Sun Tower

[Machinus]

Good performance. I'm happy that this archetype is getting some attention.

Have you dismissed Wildfire? Why or why not?

[emidln]

Good performance. I'm happy that this archetype is getting some attention.

Have you dismissed Wildfire? Why or why not?

Yes and no. I don't run enough red sources to reliably cast it around turns 3-5 when I want it the most. I would like to run it, but my manabase is really amazing right now.

[Machinus]

That makes sense. You are running more control cards, and less prison elements.

I consider Wildfire powerful enough to build a deck around, which does restrict the manabase and other cards you can run (my red stax reflects this). However I like your deck as well.

[Goblin Snowman]

On the 100% Trix Matchup - How is this possible? Unless you drop a turn 2 Smokestack you can't really beat this deck with you're clock, and anyone playing against Stack WILL fetch basics. They have a far fater clock, and countermagic to back it up.

You play no basics, that must hurt against anything that even think Wasteland. Has this caused any game losses? Does Ensnaring Bridge really cut it? There have been too many games against Goblins where I end up with two cards in hand do to there mana disruption. Do you feel you really need 4 3Spheres? I for one would be in favor of one of these being another Smokestack.

[emidln]

Sun Tower forgot to pay its power bill.

[Goblin Snowman]

I see. Thank you for clairifying those issues, and I hope I can have more imput in the deck as I test and see how it does. It looks pretty dec.

EDIT - Could you write a primer against different decks?

[emidln]

I should have gone 0-2 drop conceding to both of my opponents for playing a bad deck. All of my Gencon results are a result of me being a complete lucksack. Sorry for the inconvenience. Go back to playing Lands! or Angel Stax.

[BiscuitVader]

Looks pretty nice, I like it.

I know you said you dont want to put matchups, but could you post what you want to do against some decks?

Like: Against Threshold, I want to resolve X, then use Y to deal with Q. I want to win by doing Z.

[emidln]

Misguided strategy, looks like I didn't know what I was talking about. Maybe I should have dropped.

[Goblin Snowman]

Well, I still haven't lost against Thres tonight while playing with it. Every single card in the deck is a must counter. If you thikn you can support GG, there's Hail Storm as an instant Pyroclasm, which will kill Gobbos. You just have to let them swing for lethel and kill their board.

[emidln]

All the cool kids are sideboarding Camels to carry power over the desert to Sun Tower. Guess that means you need a set of Desert now.

[dre4m]

When you have Uba Mask/Silvan Library out and an empty hand, and also one of your four Ensnaring Bridges in play, you can't attack either, and you need to Ring your opponent out to win the game. This seems like a pretty weak win condition to me, unless you plan on saccing it to a Stack, which creates more problems.

I prefer 5/3, which has effective disruption but MUCH better early pressure and the ability to win the game before your opponent can find an answer, rather than relying on digging for prision peices.

[Goblin Snowman]

I think GG would be a stretch. There are only 8 sources of green in the deck and finding two of them early would be very shaky. Hail Storm would be amazing if the manabase could support it though. Caltrops might work early, as it would win games in multiples and stop stupid stuff early.

You could also try Constant Mists, seeing as how you play 4 Crucibles, when they swing for the hills, and they can't get rid of it. Other cards could be (Rolling) Earthquake, Crawlspace, Elephant Grass, or Caltrops. Anyone else wish Silent Arbiter wasn't a creature?

[Alex_Van_R]

100% against Rock? You must be kidding!
Seriously, how do you take care of Duress, Cabal Therapy, Putrefy, Pernicious Deed in game 1?
Game 2 you probably board in Chalice of the Void and Pithing Needle. Well, I'll be boarding in Cranial Extraction and Crime/Punishment and I still have some wishtargets to disrupt your gameplan.
StaX is a very good matchup for the Rock. Rock isn't a good matchup voor StaX. Please tell me how you win so easily. :/

[Nightmare]

Moved to N&D.

[Goblin Snowman]

100% against Rock? You must be kidding!
Seriously, how do you take care of Duress, Cabal Therapy, Putrefy, Pernicious Deed in game 1?
Game 2 you probably board in Chalice of the Void and Pithing Needle. Well, I'll be boarding in Cranial Extraction and Crime/Punishment and I still have some wishtargets to disrupt your gameplan.
StaX is a very good matchup for the Rock. Rock isn't a good matchup voor StaX. Please tell me how you win so easily. :/

My best guess is that he only played them in one round, same with a few other decks. The deck needs more testing at this point, but the biggest reason to play it is it's near autowin vs. Thres and good game .v Solidarity, with a 50ish% Goblin/Random Aggro game.

[emidln]

100% against Rock? You must be kidding!
Seriously, how do you take care of Duress, Cabal Therapy, Putrefy, Pernicious Deed in game 1?
Game 2 you probably board in Chalice of the Void and Pithing Needle. Well, I'll be boarding in Cranial Extraction and Crime/Punishment and I still have some wishtargets to disrupt your gameplan.
StaX is a very good matchup for the Rock. Rock isn't a good matchup voor StaX. Please tell me how you win so easily. :/

You're right. I'm 0% vs the Rock. When I see rock I just scoop and thank my opponent for my beating.

[bigbear102]

It's true, I played 9 rounds with Insect Advantage, with game 2 of top 8 taking over an hour, and still got impatient with emidln's build of stax.

The deck is extremely solid against most other decks in the format due to the fact it can go turn 1 Trinisphere, and if it doesn't then it just wipes their board with clasm/quake after going turn 2 trinisphere. I noticed that most games will be won with a life total of less than 10, but I have to admit that it's not really a problem under a waste/smokestack/trini/bridge lock. Any and all of those are extremely possible with his draw engine of uba mask and sylvan library.

He did go x-2 in every legacy event he played in as far as i know.

[Machinus]

This deck requires an extreme amount of confidence and patience to play properly.

This is true about Angel Stax as well. It takes a lot of experience to get a sense of how to play Stax properly. It's also one reason why Stax is not represented in most environments.

[Di]

Honestly, that's a poor reason. :p Being a former Stax player myself(both in 1.5 and Vintage), I'd say playskill isn't nearly as big of a factor with this deck as people think it is. In Vintage that's a little different, but in Legacy, Stax can run on fucking autopilot. As long as you have half a brain and a small sense of the stack, you can win. I mean, there aren't really that many decisions you have to make considering the nature of the deck. If this was a Survival deck or Solidarity then playskill could be factored in, but decks like these don't make choices like that.

The biggest reason the deck isn't represented in most environments is because it has a great tendency to lose to random shit. Ask Mr. Nightmare about that and his time in Philly.

Btw, Sylvan Library and Uba Mask is the fucking tits. I'm now on a quest to make as many decks as possible with this engine.

[Nightmare]

Yup. I got smashed by SuiBlack and Elves.

Dibbs on this deck, Syracuse.

[Machinus]

I think Angel Stax does have some difficult decisions in the early game. Stax has a bad matchup against random aggro that has a lot of permanents and some average utility, which is why it doesn't usually perform well - but people choosing not to play it (it being underrepresented, like I said) is also due to the different strategy required to understand the deck.

[GoTreK]

Mmmh I was just wondering if Covetous Dragon would be a possible or even a good choice. It would give you a nice and particularly fast kill option. If there is a softlock with say CoW and Wasties + 3sphere you could power out one and win the gane fast, so that you don't give your opponent the chance to recover.
In addition I would like to know (@Machinus) if you feel this version of Stax could mean sort of a breakthrough for Stax and could perform with a higher/better constancy than Angel Stax. After all it has a solution for probably the most serious problem, namely topdecking.

@emidln
Were there any other cards you considered when building this deck which now seem better than any in this deck? Were there cards that sort of disappointed you and that you would like to replace?

[emidln]

Bye UbaStax! Sun Tower was more fun...

[Goblin Snowman]

Yup. I got smashed by SuiBlack and Elves.

I know the feeling too well also :cry:

[Toranor]

Ok, this may sound silly because it's just a minor change but have you thought about -1 Taiga +1 Wooded Foothills ?
With either Crucible or Library (without Mask) out it cannot be bad.

[Machinus]

Yes, adding the draw elements of course gives the deck more strength in the late game, but Stax's biggest weakness is to board development in the early game. Angel Stax focuses on minimizing card disadvantage by making every spell useful in as many situations as possible (for example, only running three Trinispheres). That means it will have a more consistent game, and a higher synergy between cards that you draw, but a lower power level when the deck is functioning at full capacity. I believe this is the best design strategy if you assume you are going to encounter disruption elements.

Emidln notes that this deck can't lose to blue. I have found that Stax synergies in general have that strength, which is why I have focused so much on the aggro matchup with my deck development.

As far as viability, if this deck can perform as well as it did, I would strongly consider playing a newer version of my Wildfire Stax. It is a different deck, and I have already talked about it, but I think it takes advantage of some of the same metagame properties. I like Wildfire enough to sacrifice design freedoms to support it.

[GoTreK]

Ok, this might be slightly off topic but is here a thread anywhere that deals with "Wildfire Stax"? I'm eager to get to know more versions of Stax, since I quite like the decktype, but I couldn't find any.

[Pinder]

Btw, Sylvan Library and Uba Mask is the fucking tits. I'm now on a quest to make as many decks as possible with this engine.

Wow. I can't believe no one has ever thought of that before (or at least, that I hadn't heard of it). It was already a free Brainstorm every turn, but once you get the Mask it's a free Ancestral every turn. Plus, it forces people to play things the turn they draw them, which prevents people from holding countermagic.

On a completely unrelated note, since I'm currently working on Friggorid (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3374), I was wondering how Sylvan Library interacts with Dredge. If the replacement effect works the same as it does with the Mask, I have a few new ideas :wink:. Also, how does Mask interact with Dredge. Since they're both replacement effects I'm assuming the player can choose which one, but I'm not quite sure of the details. [/tangent]

Anyway, not much to contribute, just wanted to say how awesome this deck looks.

[jazzykat]

Hmm...one thing stands out to me when talking about the ensnaring bridge...grafted skull cap. You can replace the sylvans with it. I do understand that uba mask and sylvan is like an ancestral a turn but the cap gives you 2 cards a turn, as opposed to a choice of 1-3 but at a higher although with a brown CC.

[Zilla]

On a completely unrelated note, since I'm currently working on Friggorid (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3374), I was wondering how Sylvan Library interacts with Dredge. If the replacement effect works the same as it does with the Mask, I have a few new ideas :wink:.
From Saturday School on Wizards.com:


Q:If I have a Sylvan Library in play and I choose to replace one or more of the draws with dredge, do I then pay 4 life for each card that I don't put back on top of my library? --Earl W.

A:If you draw any cards and use Sylvan Library, you'll have to put back or pay life. If you draw for the turn then dredge for the Sylvan and draw for the Sylvan, you'll have two cards you've drawn this turn-- put them back or pay. However, you could draw for the turn and dredge both the Sylvan draws and return or pay for only the one card. Or, if you have enough dredge in your graveyard and cards in your library, you could replace your regular draw and the Sylvan draws with three dredges and not have to pay anything.

In short, yes, you can replace Sylvan draws with dredge effects and not pay life. Note that this has been suggested and tried since the Dredge mechanic was spoiled. (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=969)

As for its role in Friggorid, I'm not sure it's actually better in that deck than the available alternatives (Winds, etc.), because it's relatively slower.

In any case, this is off topic here, so feel free to continue this aspect of the discussion in the Friggorid thread.

[Machinus]

Ok, this might be slightly off topic but is here a thread anywhere that deals with "Wildfire Stax"? I'm eager to get to know more versions of Stax, since I quite like the decktype, but I couldn't find any.

Here (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27779.0) is an older version of my Wildfire Stax deck. I can start a new thread if people are interested.

[Pinder]

Hmm...one thing stands out to me when talking about the ensnaring bridge...grafted skull cap. You can replace the sylvans with it. I do understand that uba mask and sylvan is like an ancestral a turn but the cap gives you 2 cards a turn, as opposed to a choice of 1-3 but at a higher although with a brown CC.

I think in this instance, having 1G by turn 2 isn't that much of a problem for the deck (I could be wrong, but it seems that way). The fact that Library comes out on turn 2 (or even 1) probably gives it the edge over Skullcap in this case.

[Bane of the Living]

I played your list while Granite Shard was in it. This list looks much better. I would consider Goblin Welder again. He really needs a home in Legacy Stax and since your not playing CotV maindeck I strongly suggest him. Recurring Tangle Wire will. win. the. game.

A+ for Mask and Lib.

On another stax note Ive been working on a blue stax list Ill try to have it up soon. I want to make sure I have something solid to work off of.

[GOLDFISH_OF_DOOM]

Not to seem like a newb. But could someone please explain the uba mask/ library interaction to me. That would help, thanks

[currence]

@ GOLDFISH_OF_DOOM

At the beginning of your draw step Sylvan Library triggers and then, using Uba Mask's replacement effect, you replace all three draws (1 from your draw step, 2 from Library) and remove the top three cards of your library from the game. Because you have not drawn any cards this turn, in particular Sylvan Library doesn't detect any that you've drawn from it, so you mustn't pay any life. But, any of the three cards you don't play this turn are removed from the game for good (a feature, not a bug; hurts the opponent more than you, most often, because this deck was build for it).

So, there you go. A masterful card advantage engine.

[meanee]

I am a huge fan of that "combo". I once made an elvish/stax deck also featuring Abundance... That makes the combo even more crazy...

Anyway, I think your deck looks good, but I would play 2 md tabernacles, and maybe some kind of faster win-condition...

- meanee

[emidln]

My win condition was too slow. Withdrawing the deck. Play Lands!

[Benie Bederios]

I totally agree, your wincondition is good, hell not long ago Goblin Welder was the wincondition or Platinum Angel in monobrownstax, and from there just deck your opponent( because attacking wouldn't work due to bridge.) The only reason Vintage Staxx uses Titan is because they can play it turn 2/3 with workshop and Tinker.

[Zilla]

This is a moderative note as opposed to a comment on the deck itself:

emidln, if you want to update the open post with a primer-like description of matchups, card choices, and strategy, I'll go ahead and move it back to the Open Forum. It seems that you feel the deck is mostly omptimal and complete; if you can be more specific as to why you think so, it qualifies for the Open Forums. Thanks.

[scrumdogg]

Here (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27779.0) is an older version of my Wildfire Stax deck. I can start a new thread if people are interested.

Yes, emphatically yes, please emphatically yes.

[mercc]

I played your list while Granite Shard was in it. This list looks much better. I would consider Goblin Welder again. He really needs a home in Legacy Stax and since your not playing CotV maindeck I strongly suggest him. Recurring Tangle Wire will. win. the. game.

A+ for Mask and Lib.

On another stax note Ive been working on a blue stax list Ill try to have it up soon. I want to make sure I have something solid to work off of.

Blue sounds nice :) The problem with original stax is you go into topdeckingmode rather fast, but MaskLib(although running 3 and 2 of those sounds kinda unstable?) takes care of that and blue would certainly solve the carddrawing issues aswell, thirst for knowledge, FoF and so on. Maybe build towards a little "faerie stompy"(sea drake, serendib) version with the original stax-disuption in it?

[emidln]

Blue sounds nice :) The problem with original stax is you go into topdeckingmode rather fast, but MaskLib(although running 3 and 2 of those sounds kinda unstable?) takes care of that and blue would certainly solve the carddrawing issues aswell, thirst for knowledge, FoF and so on. Maybe build towards a little "faerie stompy"(sea drake, serendib) version with the original stax-disuption in it?

I highly recommend going with 4/3 and 3/4 creatures. Good luck with that!

[Lego]

UbaStax has a basic advantage against most decks in the format right now because very few decks run maindeck answers to Ensnaring Bridge. To my knowledge, only Goblins builds (and some of them are dropping MD Disenchant or artifact hate) and Angel Stompy have hate for the bridge MD.

Not horribly relevant, but so does Deadguy, Wombat, Rifter, The Rock, Truffle Shuffle, some builds of Salvagers Game, a lot of Tog Builds, most anything playing Burning Wish, and lots of other jank.

I'm sure this will probably go in your larger tournament report, but what is your matchup actually like against Goblins? I know you've done a lot to shore this build up from older builds, but has this improved the Goblins matchup by much? Seems like you beat Threshold, have great game versus Solidarity, and just need to 50/50 Goblins while not losing to everything that's not Tier 1, and you're all set. Although I'm guessing your Deadguy/Sui matchup will always be pretty bad, right? I had a lot of fun playing against this on MWS (if I remember correctly, it lost to Lands! and then proceeded to maul lots of other jank) Kudos :smile:

[jeremys]

Caltrops seems like it would help out the goblins matchup, it stops lackey, could make piledriver a little less scary, and it should work pretty well against random critters. Two of them would make for not very happy goblins as they sit there and wait to get locked down.

[L3X]

I basicly have 2 issues.
1. Sometimes I don't draw a green source in time, my Sylvans stay in hand so my bridge does nothing.
2. I really don't like the 4 pyroclasms and the 2 earthquakes. By now I've encountered several occasions in which I drew multiples in my openinghand which is bad. They're also useless when Bridgelock is on the board. Maybe we can play burning wish in some of the slots?

Other things I've noticed:
-This deck is insane on the play
-Aether Vial > this deck (preboard)
-Tangle Wire is insanely good. I've won a lot of games because of this one.

I think you did a good job building this deck, it's one of the best stax lists i've seen so far.

[emidln]

Not horribly relevant, but so does Deadguy, Wombat, Rifter, The Rock, Truffle Shuffle, some builds of Salvagers Game, a lot of Tog Builds, most anything playing Burning Wish, and lots of other jank.

I'm sure this will probably go in your larger tournament report, but what is your matchup actually like against Goblins? I know you've done a lot to shore this build up from older builds, but has this improved the Goblins matchup by much? Seems like you beat Threshold, have great game versus Solidarity, and just need to 50/50 Goblins while not losing to everything that's not Tier 1, and you're all set. Although I'm guessing your Deadguy/Sui matchup will always be pretty bad, right? I had a lot of fun playing against this on MWS (if I remember correctly, it lost to Lands! and then proceeded to maul lots of other jank) Kudos :smile:

Lands pwns me. I feel sorry if I ever accidentally beat a Lands build. Probably due to them mulliganing down to 0.

[jeremys]

This is all just theory so feel free to ignore it but here's my initial thoughts on constant mists v caltrops

Constant mists
---------------

pros
it an answer for first turn lackey
it's reusable
it prevents creatures from becoming sharpshooter activations when attacking

Cons
it costs a land to reuse, maybe not a huge deal with crucible but it's one less thing you can sac to smokestack or tap for tanglewire
it's counterable, not an issue against goblins but maybe against gro?
it doesn't do anything more if you have multiples

Caltrops
---------

Pros
Also can answer a first turn lackey with all the accelleration you have
no need to sac anything to reuse it, it just sits there and scares x/1 critters
more than one stops bigger critters
it's colorless

Cons
it's more useful early than late
it turns x/1 goblins into free sharpshooter activations


There's probably more on both sides but I'm at work and they actualy want me to do things once in a while. Obviously some data from people who have actually tested will be more useful but maybe this will spark some discussion anyway.

[Ewokslayer]

One thing I have noticed in my limited testing is that often I will get Sylvan Library on the board without Uba Mask. When that happens I tend to look at the same 2 crappy cards over and over with the Library. Is there any way to realistically put shuffling effects into the deck so the Library is more effective at digging?

[emidln]

One thing I have noticed in my limited testing is that often I will get Sylvan Library on the board without Uba Mask. When that happens I tend to look at the same 2 crappy cards over and over with the Library. Is there any way to realistically put shuffling effects into the deck so the Library is more effective at digging?

No, UbaStax is a wasted effort.

[Ewokslayer]

I don't think so. Someone suggested -1 Taiga, +1 Wooded Foothills, but that would be incredibly random. It's actually a feature sometimes though. With a bridge out and only a library I hide pyroclasms on top so if Goblins or other random aggro plays something that is relevant I can draw the answer next turn.

I agree that -1 Taiga +1 Foothill seems too random to be of much use.
Have you considered perhaps dropping some colorless lands for foothills?
Perhaps -2 Wasteland +2 Foothill. It doesn't seem like Wasteland is that integral to the decks core strategy.
Additional you could perhaps drop some redundant cards for other shufflers, like drop the 4th crucible and the 2nd rolling earthquake (still leaves you 5 ways to clear the board of weenies) for two other shufflers. I can't really think of any in green or red right now except for Gamble and that has the drawback of not being a very good card.

[emidln]

I agree that -1 Taiga +1 Foothill seems too random to be of much use.
Have you considered perhaps dropping some colorless lands for foothills?
Perhaps -2 Wasteland +2 Foothill. It doesn't seem like Wasteland is that integral to the decks core strategy.
Additional you could perhaps drop some redundant cards for other shufflers, like drop the 4th crucible and the 2nd rolling earthquake (still leaves you 5 ways to clear the board of weenies) for two other shufflers. I can't really think of any in green or red right now except for Gamble and that has the drawback of not being a very good card.

Cutting Crucible is the best move possible. In fact, I'd cut white and green too. Play mono-white with suppression field or something. I hear that there is a decent deck that already does this on these forums. They call it Angel Stax or something. Play it, it's strictly better.

[Arsenal_Fan]

@emidln I have one question for you. In your testing, are you able to dump your hand quick enough to make Ensnaring Bridge have value. I have tested other versions of this deck and it seems that Stax is a very mana hungry deck early in the game especially with so many 3cc and 4cc artifacts that the deck relies on?

[TheDarkshineKnight]

So, uh, what the hell is up with the topic creator editing all of his posts?

[Lego]

I found this thread to give the decklist to a friend, and it's gone...? Looks to me like someone logged into emidln's account. Anyone know what happened here?

[TheDarkshineKnight]

No fucking idea.

[quicksilver]

So, uh, what the hell is up with the topic creator editing all of his posts?

Lol, that is some funny shit. I don't know if this is the result of someone getting into his account, a mod like Mr. Nightmare or PR being funny, him coming to the conclusion that the deck is actually bad, or him getting fed up with criticism (I didn't read the thread but I can imagine there was plenty). But whatever that cause it is humerous.

[Nightmare]

Lol, that is some funny shit. I don't know if this is the result of someone getting into his account, a mod like Mr. Nightmare or PR being funny, him coming to the conclusion that the deck is actually bad, or him getting fed up with criticism (I didn't read the thread but I can imagine there was plenty). But whatever that cause it is humerous.I would never do that.

I've PMed him and temporarily Locked the thread.

[Nightmare]

For the people that want the list, this was my most current list before I started testing with friends for the Lotus tournament:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Crystal Vein
4 Wasteland
4 Taiga
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Barbarian Ring
4 Mox Diamond

4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Tangle Wire
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Smokestack

3 Sylvan Library
2 Uba Mask

4 Pyroclasm
2 Rolling Earthquake
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Boil
SB: 3 Constant MistsHe's decided the deck isn't tested enough to meet his standards right now, so won't be discussing it, but he gave me the list, so here you go. Reopened.

[Machinus]

Yes, emphatically yes, please emphatically yes.

The new thread (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=30039.msg438094#msg438094).

[_erbs_]

Hi, what do you think about this build:

Its a UbaMask + Wildfire STAX deck

Land
4 ancient tomb
3 city or traitors
3 wasteland
4 mishra's factory
2 barbarian ring
4 Taiga
2 mountain
1 forest
----
23

Mana
4 mox diamond
4 talisman of impluse
3 worn powerstone
----
11

Anti-Creature
4 Wildfire
----
4

Utility
2 sylvan library
3 uba mask
3 crusible or worlds
-----
10

Lock
4 Trinishphere
4 Smokestack
3 Tanglewire
----
11

Creatures
3 covetous dragon
-----
3

SB
4 chalice of the void
4 pyroclasm
3 tormods crypt
4 ??

I just wanted to hear your comments about it, its a wildfire stax which was built buy Machinus, (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=30039.0#top)I modified it abit by boosting the mana accelerants so you could maximize wildfire and uba mask and put them to your advantage.

Once you resolve a Wildfire and uba mask in play with all your mana accelerants im sure you could out setup/restart your opponents deck due to your mana accelerants.

[Bane of the Living]

Necro this thread a bit?

Ive been playing Wildfire Stax a bit lately and I think Sylvian Lib is exactly the card it needs to stop going into such a shitty late game. I would only play 3 Wildfire though. Drawing 2 in your opening hand is so gay.

@emidln
Are you playing any creatures for win conditions still? Have you tried Arc-Slogger? He rfg's the top 10 cards so you can keep things selective with library even.

[emidln]

Necro this thread a bit?

Ive been playing Wildfire Stax a bit lately and I think Sylvian Lib is exactly the card it needs to stop going into such a shitty late game. I would only play 3 Wildfire though. Drawing 2 in your opening hand is so gay.

@emidln
Are you playing any creatures for win conditions still? Have you tried Arc-Slogger? He rfg's the top 10 cards so you can keep things selective with library even.

I don't play any creatures as win conditions. All of my cards are multi-functional and never dead. Creatures are largely dead most of the game in addition to hosing my philosophy of creating card advantage through card choices. All of my card choices allow me to trade many of my opponents' cards for 1 or less of my own.

My win conditions right now are like this:

Concession
Mishra's Factory (3)
Barbarian Ring (2)
Rolling Earthquake (2)
Burning Wish + Rolling Earthquake (2)
Goblin Welder (3 post-board)
Razormane Masticore (4 post-board)

I have never felt like I have needed more, and Welder and Razorcore actually aren't meant to be win conditions. Rolling Earthquake is also more often a "draw condition" than a win condition. It functions much like Dragon + Reanimate enchantment + no target works in dragon to draw then game when I can't win conventionally.

Honestly, B.Ring + Factory account for perhaps 40% of my kills. The rest are through concession.

[Arsenal_Fan]

@emidln

I see you have added Razormane Masticore to your list. I have been playing 2 maindeck Razormane Masticores since GP Philly. I saw your list on Star City. What are you using as your current sideboard?

[emidln]

The one in my primer on Salvation lacks the Razorcores, but the list that I'm testing that I hope helps the Goblins matchup (too early to tell for sure) is this:

1 Pyroclasm
1 Boiling Seas
1 Life from the Loam
4 Razormane Masticore
3 Goblin Welder
3 Boil
2 Pithing Needle

I'm not entirely sure if the fat dudes plan is going to be the way vs Goblins over say, more Pyroclasms, Rolling Earthquakes and 1-2 Constant Mists, but it seems at least as good right now. I don't think it really hurts any matchups either, as you can always board out Uba Masks, leave in Libraries, and bring in Razormane Masticore + Welders against control to combo with Life from the Loam.

For my board, keep in mind that I have 2x Burning Wish, 2x Rolling Earthquake, and 2x Pithing Needle main.

[Ravage]

Have you tried Silent Arbiter against Goblins? It's 1 cheaper, same toughness. It's not as powerful and it doesn't actually get rid of the goblins, but it can lock them down more easily and you don't need to discard to keep it out.