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Iranon
08-27-2006, 05:16 PM
THE CONCEPT:

One thing that struck me ironic about Affinity is that the cards with the name-giving mechanism are the weakest in the deck; the name really should have been '30 Silverlings' as a tribute to both the murdering disciple and the number of artifacts (it's probably more in the vicinity of 40, which just shows that Judas didn't know how to bargain).

Affinity cards allows for amusingly degenerate plays, but they are really the rather fragile backup plan if the Disciple of Doom and friends don't seal the game. Instead, I opted for good old-fashioned card draw in the form of Dark Confidant and adjusted the rest of the deck accordingly. I'm aware some brave souls run Confidant in a regular Affinity deck, but that seems a little too suicidal.



Enough Waffling, here's the deck:

LAND:

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Great Furnace
2 City of Brass
2 Gemstone Mine
2 Glimmervoid


CREATURES:

4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Dark Confidant
3 Atog


NONCREATURE SPELLS:

4 Aether Vial
4 Urza's Bauble
3 Cranial Plating
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Arcane Denial



Card Choices (where not obvious)

Mana base: Instead of the popular colour fixers and manlands, I prefer real lands and real creatures. I do, however, miss acceleration. Mox Diamond, normally my preferred choice in Affinity, is out of the question because of the low overall land count.

Atog: I really really really don't like them. However, with the loss of the Usual Suspects, I require some threats that don't rely on equipment, and more sacrifice outlets are also welcome. I'd much rather play Meddling Mage maindeck to give me a kick-ass control suite, but the deck felt a trifle anaemic when I tried that.

Dark Confidant: Average Converted Mana Cost under 1. With the lack of individual card quality, Disciple and Ravager, quantity matters.

Arcane Denial: This might draw a little flak, but I believe this fits right in. It's a decent draw spell in drag (spare Vials, Hatless Racks, Therapies etc into 3 new cards. Therapy can even come back.) that can, if needed, double as a hard counter.



SIDEBOARD (for now)

4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Meddling Mage
4 Engineered Plague
4 Duress


The Plagues and Crypts are for Goblins and Thresh, naturally, while Duress and Mage can turn this into something fishy enough to wreck combo's day. Non-goblin aggro match-ups might need some help.



Truth be told, the deck still needs quite a bit of refining but I'd appreciate some feedback even at this early stage.

Atwa
08-27-2006, 05:39 PM
I am going to sound very blunt here, but in my opinion, every deck running Acrane "crappy" Denial is a sub-optimal deck.

Deciede what you want in the spot.
Want carddraw? Add in Thoughtcast, Deep Analysis, Accumulated Knowledge, Serum Visions, Brainstorm etc.
Want Countermagic? Add Mana Leak, Miscalculation, etc (not so long list here, because I'm going to bed, but you get the point).

Arcane Denial is simply bad. Sure, it is a hardcounter for only u (counting colours, not CMC), but giving your opponents 2 extra cards is simply bad. Even if you draw a card yourself, giving your opponents 2 extra cards means they are getting their treads faster, getting their answers faster and getting their hate faster (postboard).

My advise: Play remand.

Who cares it's a softcounter. It also draws you a card (but gives your opponent none) and it's basicly a timewalk (in means of killing your opponent, which is what you should be doing anyway, instead of trying to play a little control)

Poron
08-27-2006, 06:09 PM
(if you use Arcane Denial on a your spell you draw 3 cards)

Iranon
08-27-2006, 07:09 PM
I knew this was going to happen.

Indeed, and that's the use it sees more than 2/3 of the time. I agree that Arcane Denial is a rather weak card that it needs a compelling reason to be included. Such as already running a lot of situational spells with a converted mana cost of 0 or 1.



One way to look at it: In a deck that's devoid of other instants (check) with just about all of the expendable spells costing 0 or 1 (check), Arcane Denial does everything Thirst for Knowledge would (Thoughtcast is a different matter, but I don't fancy being raped in the confession box. 5 damage to the head is excessive for a little draw spell). Never mind special cases, such as when your opponent tries to counter something himself (in that case, Arcane denial might as well read 1u, draw 3 cards at the beginning of the next upkeep).

That it can also be a crappy hard counter is a bonus.


p.s. Can someone donate me a Force of Will? The horrid things cause card disadvantage, but for some reason I still want one...

kirdape3
08-27-2006, 07:48 PM
A card that I'd really want in this deck is either Mishra's Factory or Blinkmoth Nexus. Both of those cards end up being uncounterable ways to sneak in a couple of points of damage (or a way to drop a bunch of modular counters on an evasive creature in the case of Blinkmoth Nexus).

In order to add them, I would cut the two Cities of Brass and the two Gemstone Mines. Because the deck is so color hungry, I'd replace the Urza's Baubles with Chromatic Spheres. That will wash the mana in the direction desired without sacrificing your artifact count or your card drawing.

As for Arcane Denials - you only gain as much raw card advantage as playing a Thoughtcast would, and Thoughtcast costs (normally) just one mana. I understand the idea of minimizing your mana costs with Dark Confidant in the deck, but you do not want to be in the position of having to run non-synergistic cards in a deck that's completely built upon it's synergy. Losing 5 life to a Thoughtcast is going to be painful, but throwing two cards away for 3 of them during the next upkeep (a key idea - Arcane Denial's awfully slow at drawing cards) seems less good than just taking 5 and drawing 2 right away.

Brushwagg
08-27-2006, 08:54 PM
off topic stuff removed ~ Nightmare

Back on topic:I have to agree with you. Most of the Affinity stuff sucks. Although you took a different direction then the one I was thinking about I think it has some merit.

@Arcane Denial:This needs to be cut. There are alot of better counterspells and draw spells out there.

Draw:
Thoughtcast:Affinity for artifacts, draw 2. This should only cost you 1-2 at the most.

Thrist for Knowledge:Instant speed draw. You should only be discarding 1.

Night's Whisper:2 cards for 2 mana and 2 life.

Brainstorm:Sets up Bob for you. Not sure I would include though because of the lack of shuffling.

There's alot more out there too.

Counters:
Mana Leak: 1U soft counter late game. But it doesn't give your opponent 2 free cards.

Remand:Soft counter but cantrips.

Overrride:This is probably the perfect fit for you. Can be a soft or hard counter depending on how many artifacts you have in play.

Condescend:Can counter a spell and scry for you.

SuckerPunch
08-27-2006, 10:24 PM
As much as Arcane Denial sucks, I see the authors point.

This deck plays many 0 cc cards and everything else is a 1 cc card.

When you have Ornipoter or any other 0cc card in your hand, Arcane Denial is a thirst for knowledge that only cost 1U instead of 2U.

The rest of the time, you will always have a 1cc card, which means Arcane Denial is basically a Thirst for Knowledge.

The beauty is, when your opponent casts a Serenity or Energy Flux or some other bomb that you autolose to, you have the option to use that Thirst for Knowledge as a counterspell that causes card disadvantage, the same amount of card disadvantage as FoW.

Now I'm not saying that Arcane Denial is a better card drawer than Thirst, as having to wait till next upkeep isn't as good. But it is probably better any time you have Ornipoter in hand.

And I'm by no means suggesting that Arcane Denial is anywhere in the same league as FoW just because it provides the same amount of card disadvantage, doesn't cost you nearly as much life when you draw it off of Confidant, and doesn't require 16 blue spells to support. Because Arcane Denial does cost mana to play.

But the fact is, it serves both functions, though 80% of time, you're probably better off using it as Thirst than you are using it as a counterspell. But that 20% of the time where it does let you stop a Serenity or Energy Flux, it's the difference between winning and losing.

There are times when experienced magic players have to look beyond the basics they think they know (staples basically), and start looking at the specific situation. In this specific deck, I think Arcane Denial is a pretty good fit.

Iranon
08-28-2006, 06:51 AM
@Suckerpunch: You put it better than I could have done - thank you.

I shouldn't have mentioned Force of Will, that comment was prompted by (uncalled-for) exasperation. I knew the minute I posted the decklist that someone would immediately demand cutting Arcane Denial, without taking into account the rest of the deck.

Of all the arguments against it, the only one I consider relevant is the slowtripping and Aether Vial makes that a lot less annoying. Even without, I'm almost always happy to see the first one. 4 might not be the correct number though, because chaining Denials is clunky as hell.

I wouldn't run another counter in its place if you paid me (Suckerpunch's estimated 80% use as a draw spell is perfectly realistic in some match-ups). If any more control needs to be run maindeck, Meddlng Mage is the next in line. He's practically begging to be in, although he would require a slight tweak of the mana base.



@Kirdape: Do you think I can support manlands with only 18 permanent mana sources? With this deck, I tend to sacrifice artifact lands quite freely because

a) Ravagers/Atogs need to cover for the lack of true fat
b) You don't need to keep a high artifact count lest you draw into unplayable cards.

I will test this though, both with Sphere and Terrarion.

Lanfeng
08-28-2006, 10:02 AM
look bobbing a thoughtcast is fine, first of all, it hardly ever happens, and second of all if it does, your aggro, take 5, then pay 1 to draw 2 cards, confidant generates enough card advantage for you to not care if at the end you've lost 15 life, the only life point that matters is the last, milk all the others as much as you can, sure bob kills you, but its the rare instance.

You can run top, it wouldn't be that bad.

Nightmare
08-28-2006, 10:16 AM
A few things need to be said.

1) It's not experienced players "overlooking the context" to say that Arcane Denial sucks. It's fact. Arcane Denial is awful as a Draw spell, and it's awful as a counterspell. People keep trying to play it, and keep finding out how much it sucks. If you want to run Thirst, run Thirst. If you want to run a counterspell, run Override. Neither one is better than Mana Leak or Thoughtcast in this deck. Even with Confidant.

2) The discussion will continue to be of Denial, even if I say to end it, because this deck is absolutely no different than any other Affinity deck other than Arcane Denial. Bob is not a new idea, although he means you can't run Enforcer, which is probably a mistake in itself. He's your best creature Vs. Gro, since he smashes Werebear and Goose.

3)Title Changed and Thread Watched.

Shriekmaw
08-28-2006, 11:50 AM
THE CONCEPT:

LAND:

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Great Furnace
2 City of Brass
2 Gemstone Mine
2 Glimmervoid


CREATURES:

4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Dark Confidant
3 Atog


NONCREATURE SPELLS:

4 Aether Vial
4 Urza's Bauble
3 Cranial Plating
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Arcane Denial




I have a few comments about the deck, just to improve it a little.

Lets start with the land. I also run 19 lands in my affinity builds, it seems like the right number with all the matches I've played. I really like Darksteel Citadel in the deck, something about it being indestructable is pretty good.

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Tree of Tales (sb use)
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Glimmervoid

The creatures seem pretty solid, but I love both frogmite and myr enforcer since they are very good against any deck in the format. Dark Confidant is a very good creature but I don't find him that good in the deck as I tested him quite a bit. For the sake of this thread, I'll throw Confidant in there.

4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Dark Confidant
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer

You might want to cut another artifact and run 3 confidants if you go with a confidant build of the deck.

The non-creature spells should look something like this.

4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Aether Vial
4 Thoughtcast
3 Cranial Plating

I like chromatic sphere b/c its a color fixer and a lot of times you use it with thoughtcast to ancestral recall yourself, I heard thats pretty good.

Tell me what you guys think?

I like the aggressive approach when playing this deck rather than putting control cards in it.

Cavius The Great
08-28-2006, 12:10 PM
As much as Arcane Denial sucks, I see the authors point.

This deck plays many 0 cc cards and everything else is a 1 cc card.

When you have Ornipoter or any other 0cc card in your hand, Arcane Denial is a thirst for knowledge that only cost 1U instead of 2U.

The rest of the time, you will always have a 1cc card, which means Arcane Denial is basically a Thirst for Knowledge.

The beauty is, when your opponent casts a Serenity or Energy Flux or some other bomb that you autolose to, you have the option to use that Thirst for Knowledge as a counterspell that causes card disadvantage, the same amount of card disadvantage as FoW.

Now I'm not saying that Arcane Denial is a better card drawer than Thirst, as having to wait till next upkeep isn't as good. But it is probably better any time you have Ornipoter in hand.

And I'm by no means suggesting that Arcane Denial is anywhere in the same league as FoW just because it provides the same amount of card disadvantage, doesn't cost you nearly as much life when you draw it off of Confidant, and doesn't require 16 blue spells to support. Because Arcane Denial does cost mana to play.

But the fact is, it serves both functions, though 80% of time, you're probably better off using it as Thirst than you are using it as a counterspell. But that 20% of the time where it does let you stop a Serenity or Energy Flux, it's the difference between winning and losing.

There are times when experienced magic players have to look beyond the basics they think they know (staples basically), and start looking at the specific situation. In this specific deck, I think Arcane Denial is a pretty good fit.


Arcane Denial doesn't cause card disadvantage, it replaces a threat with even more threats. I'd take card disadvantage over that any day.

Iranon
08-28-2006, 12:23 PM
@ Nightmare: With all due respect, this makes no sense whatsoever.

1) This is not Affinity. It doesn't contain a single card with the mechanism. It's not the first time the name is used in a loose manner, but it's annoying.

2) I believe I provided valid arguments as to why the regular draw spells are inferior in this deck. Running Bob and Thoughtcast yet no other Affinity cards seems counterintuitive. It would make more sense to take the gamble for Hoverguards than for redundant gas. Or to run almost the full Affinity complement and hope you kill your opponent before Bob kills you. Not that I claim either of those is good.

3) I really don't know what giving a list of very suboptimal counterspells (Overrule? Please, Mana Leak is bad enough) is supposed to achieve. There is no close alternative to Denial in this. If that is not playable despite the synergy with the deck as a whole, I'd be a lot more appreciative of constructive suggestions, as in 'what should be run instead'. 'These other sucky cards might be slightly less bad' is not really a whole lot of help.



@ Nickrit2000:That certainly looks like it could work, but I'd swallow hard every time I flip a card with Dark Confidant.

I was interested in using the Affinity shell sans the Affinity cards. My version tried to take the deck a little towards control, the other obvious option would be to emphasize the combo aspect, including cards like Fling as a finisher.

I wouldn't put Confidant into actual Affinity myself. I'm afraid someone saw it fit to change the title...

Nightmare
08-28-2006, 01:21 PM
1) This is not Affinity. It doesn't contain a single card with the mechanism. It's not the first time the name is used in a loose manner, but it's annoying.It is Affinity. Whether the mechanic itself is present or not, you're running on the same basic principles of that deck, and as such, it can (and should) be associated with that deck. Whether you have the 8 cards that used the affinity keyword isn't actually that central to the nomenclature. Annoying to you it may be, it doesn't change the reality of the situation.


2) I believe I provided valid arguments as to why the regular draw spells are inferior in this deck.I disagree. If you had, there wouldn't be 6 posts following it discussing how Arcane Denial is terrible. Your whole argument is summed up in the fact that it can be a draw spell or a counter, and that it isn't bad as either. It's weak as either, and weak as both. Thirst for Knowledge is good because it lets you see 3 cards now, at Instant speed. Thoughtcast is good because it lets you see 2 cards now at the cost of 1 mana. Arcane Denial is the cost of 2 spells from your hand (which is not the same as Thirst) for 3 at some point in the future. It also happens to be a terrible topdeck.


Running Bob and Thoughtcast yet no other Affinity cards seems counterintuitive. It would make more sense to take the gamble for Hoverguards than for redundant gas. Or to run almost the full Affinity complement and hope you kill your opponent before Bob kills you. Not that I claim either of those is good.Bob and Thoughtcast in the same deck is fine. Taking your decklist, and replacing Denial for Thoughtcast, the average hit from Bob will be 1.1 damage. That's well below the average for decks using Bob. Not to mention that 26 cards in the deck deal you 0. Even if you take 5 from Thoughtcast, you just drew 4 cards that turn for 1 mana. That's Ancestral Recall, by the way, and I'd take 5 to cast that.


3) I really don't know what giving a list of very suboptimal counterspells (Overrule? Please, Mana Leak is bad enough) is supposed to achieve.Mana Leak is arguably the third best Counterspell in the game, behind Mana Drain and Force. Bad enough hardly describes it. Affinity (or whatever you want to call this deck) is not a midrange deck. It is an aggro deck, and as such, Mana Leak should be a hard counter somewhere in the 80-90% range. Trying to make this deck a control deck is a mistake.


There is no close alternative to Denial in this. If that is not playable despite the synergy with the deck as a whole, I'd be a lot more appreciative of constructive suggestions, as in 'what should be run instead'. 'These other sucky cards might be slightly less bad' is not really a whole lot of help.Thoughtcast should be run instead of Arcane Denial in this deck. Clear enough?

I wouldn't put Confidant into actual Affinity myself. I'm afraid someone saw it fit to change the title...And I stand by it.

SuckerPunch
08-28-2006, 03:16 PM
Thoughtcast should be run instead of Arcane Denial in this deck.

What would you do with a Thoughtcast in hand when your opponent casts a Serenity, or a Deed, or Energy Flux, or one of the many other reasons why Affinity isn't and will never be a tier one contendor in this format. There's nothing you could hope to draw into that would salvage the game for you.

I'm not saying that Arcane Denial is a good card. I'm just saying that by suggesting that it be replaced with a pure card drawer, you're not addressing Iranon's point.

It's clear that he want to run as many artifacts and beaters as possible, and make it so that the only 4 nonbeaters/artifacts that he runs serve the dual role of both card drawing, and occasional countermagic against a massive bomb in a pinch.

If you can think of any other spell that serves both purposes, then suggest those. If you don't think one of those two functions (card draw or countermagic) is neccesary in this slot, then explain that.

But I think you'll have a very hard time arguing that Affinity doesn't need countermagic, because the deck does get completely shut down by so many very popular cards.

I think that you could make a case that the deck doesn't need any card draw beyond Confidant and thus Denial should be cut for Mana Leak or Meddling Mage (yes i know it's not reactive either but i think it's ability to beat compensates for this a bit). But that's about it.

I do agree with you that Confidant probably doesn't belong in Affinity though.

Shriekmaw
08-28-2006, 03:30 PM
What would you do with a Thoughtcast in hand when your opponent casts a Serenity, or a Deed, or Energy Flux, or one of the many other reasons why Affinity isn't and will never be a tier one contendor in this format. There's nothing you could hope to draw into that would salvage the game for you.


I would appreciate it if you could have a little more respect for the deck then that. Its a very good deck in Legacy. I do agree that it will probably never make tier 1 status, but it is capable of top 8's in large tournaments.

Serenity, Deed, and Flux are problems for the deck and thats why I build the deck as aggressive as possible. In order to race the hate when I do actually see it.

What do you have to do in order to convince some of "The Sourcers" about affinity?

Nightmare
08-28-2006, 03:43 PM
What would you do with a Thoughtcast in hand when your opponent casts a Serenity, or a Deed, or Energy Flux, or one of the many other reasons why Affinity isn't and will never be a tier one contendor in this format. There's nothing you could hope to draw into that would salvage the game for you.Serenity and Energy Flux would be an issue if anyone actually played them. If they are a big deal in your area, I reccommend making a different metagame choice. Deed has always been an issue for Affinity, so run Pithing Needle if it scares you desparately. You also run Therapy to remove it before it hits play.


It's clear that he want to run as many artifacts and beaters as possible, and make it so that the only 4 nonbeaters/artifacts that he runs serve the dual role of both card drawing, and occasional countermagic against a massive bomb in a pinch.If you can think of any other spell that serves both purposes, then suggest those. If you don't think one of those two functions (card draw or countermagic) is neccesary in this slot, then explain that.I've made it abundantly clear that a counterspell is a waste of a slot here.


But I think you'll have a very hard time arguing that Affinity doesn't need countermagic, because the deck does get completely shut down by so many very popular cards.If by very popular, you mean very narrow, and hardly used unless people expect affinity to show up in droves, then I guess you're right. In that case, run Meddling Mage. At least he can carry a Cranial Hat.

Bane of the Living
08-28-2006, 05:56 PM
I dont understand why Mishras Bauble is better than Frogmite. Or why affinity is deemed not worth it yet you still play artifact lands. Heres my Confidant list from extended last season, with dotv and vial added. It was great. I never miss enforcer. Chrome Mox is excellent since it helps double black for plating and accelerates you even more. Bob makes up for the dead draw in mid game. No need for blue. I play Darksteel Citadel instead.

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Glimmervoid
3 Chrome Mox

4 Cranial Plating
3 Chromatic Sphere
4 Aether Vial
4 Cabal Therapy

3 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
3 Atog
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Dark Confidant

SB
4 Pithing Needle
4 Shrapnal Blast
4 Tangle Wire
3 Darkblast

Togit460
08-28-2006, 06:34 PM
have people tried fling out? i've been testing it and when resolved it wins games a lot quicker than shrap. blast.

Bane of the Living
08-28-2006, 07:17 PM
I like shrap much better because you use it conservativly. You shrap whatever is being removed via bolt or stp. It helps win attrition wars.

xsockmonkeyx
08-28-2006, 07:29 PM
1) This is not Affinity. It doesn't contain a single card with the mechanism. It's not the first time the name is used in a loose manner, but it's annoying.



Shakespeare once said something about naming stuff.... You could call this thing "Blumpkin Birthday Bash", its still the same deck.

Shriekmaw
08-28-2006, 09:47 PM
have people tried fling out? i've been testing it and when resolved it wins games a lot quicker than shrap. blast.

I think Fling is so old extended. If you want to run a quick kill card then I suggest Berserk, its just much better. If you don't have any berserks then maybe Fling would be okay.

Personally, if I didn't have any Berserks to play, I would just cut them, add blue into my build and play thoughtcast. A lot of times Thoughtcast can win you games just like Fling and Berserk can.

Just a quick thought.

Benie Bederios
08-29-2006, 05:20 AM
Why does this deck play Dark Confidant?

This deck is all about speed. Dark Confidant doesn't allow you to play a T2 Ravager for a T3 kill, your fundamental turn should be 4 so most of the time it will just draw 2 cards if it sticks.

So I can't see why this card is better then thoughcast in this deck.

rsaunder
08-29-2006, 11:46 AM
It's an element of reach. It doesn't matter what your fundimental turn is in this format, as chances are, the opponent is going to disrupt you, and you need a way to finish the game. Confident is not only another creature to help finish off thier last few life, but also a draw engine to get more creatures to help finish off thier last few life.

Shriekmaw
08-30-2006, 04:53 PM
It's an element of reach. It doesn't matter what your fundimental turn is in this format, as chances are, the opponent is going to disrupt you, and you need a way to finish the game. Confident is not only another creature to help finish off thier last few life, but also a draw engine to get more creatures to help finish off thier last few life.

One of my main problems with confidant in the deck is that your mana cost curve is pretty low, but not that low. You have frogmite, myr enforcer, thoughtcast as your expensive drops. I would almost always rather play thoughtcast if your looking for draw rather than confidant.

The argurment of not playing frogmite, enforcer, or thoughtcast is just silly if you ask me. You want a very high artifact count with color cards ranging from 8-12 in the deck. Plus, confidant is very fragile and weak that can be killed quite easily.

Iranon
08-31-2006, 05:27 PM
As I said, I wasn't totally satisfied with the deck yet; maybe I should have put it more clearly that I I intended to take the deck further away from Affinity. Obviously I could always throw out Confidant, throw the Fat back in and do what every Affinity deck anywhere is doing with varying degrees of success. In that case, I wouldn't have bothered to post here though.



Meddling Mage really must find a way back into the main deck, beyond the control options I already run.
About the Denials (again): That you can occasionally avert a Null Rod or something is nice, but that's not the real reason - if I expected to run into serious artifact hate, I obviously wouldn't play this. However, 12 options to mess with what your opponent is trying to do is very significant, even when 4 of them are dodgy.

The previous version (-4 Great Furnace, -3 Atog, -1 Cranial Plating, +4 Meddling Mage, +4 Ancient Den) was much more to my liking and that's what I'm falling back on for now.
Which leaves the problem of a low threat quality...

Shriekmaw
09-01-2006, 10:47 AM
There is no way you want to play Arcane Denial in this deck. If you really want to run a counterspell, then run the best one available Mana Leak. It counters everything that is relevant in the early game.

Some people have tried to sue the "Affinity Shell" as a starting point for a deck, but I believe if your going to use the shell than play the deck as it should and that is aggro.

If you want to run a 4-color Affinity build that includes main deck Mage, then you have to understand that the deck will be better against combo/control matchups but will lose a little bit when it comes to your aggro.

The best approach that I have found by playing this deck is to make the main deck aggressive and allocate your sideboard slots for your weaker matchups.

Try a few different builds and see what works and what doesn't. Let me know how everything goes.

mercc
09-03-2006, 01:48 PM
so this is basically a thread about adding cards to affinity that disrupts/protects?

meddling mage(either vith vial or terrarion cuz of its manacost) or cabal therapy(ornithopter and arcbound worker are nice targets)

Bane of the Living
09-04-2006, 12:32 PM
I already started a thread for mage affinity. Its called Skynet Affinity. In reference yes to Terminator. Affinity is the evil machine is it not?

I really would NOT recommend trying to fit in both Bob and Mage. They are far too color restrictive to mesh. In my eyes there are 3 ways to branch off affinity.. Here are what I find to be the most comprehensive succesfull builds..

Black Affinity
1. Dark Confidant
2. Cabal Therapy
3. Atog
4. Shrapnal Blast

Confidant is the reason to play it. Chrome Mox is amazing in conjunction with Aether Vial. Not as a 4 of but consider adding it to increase chances of single and double black mana. It should be worth noting double black is much easier obtained with Chrome Mox, thus giving Plating a very lethal strike. Remove Myr Enforcers and Thoughtcast for bob. Red is the best splash to make with him to add to the aggresive nature of the deck. Confidant is best played in low Goblin enviroments, however sideboarded Engineered Plague is a very nice reason to run black. Finally black has the mighty therapy, which is unfairly good with Thopters and Workers.

Blue Affinity
1. Meddling Mage
2. Thoughtcast
3. Swords to Plowshares
4. Somber Hovergaurd

What I like about the white version is the combo disruption in form of mage, while also keeping very aggro with Enforcers and Hovergaurds. Both are amazing imo. Hovergaurd is better in a thresh heavy meta do to his flying. Thoughtcast is your drawing power and swords can shore up a bad aggro matchup. When playing the mage version sometimes I remove 1-2 platings for a higher creature count and go for swarm tactics. Mage an Wrath of God or other such removal makes this tactic huge.

Green Affinity
1. Berserk
2. Rancor
3. Atog
4. Shrapnal Blast

Again red splash is best when staying off blue. It runs better with Dark Confidant to rip into your blasts and in green affinity Atog is the perfect target for Berserk. I know this is Nicks prefered version. Its the only one capable of a turn 3 kill. Weakness in this build lies in its lack of card draw. Opting for speed.

I would side with Nick here in saying its not the best idea to remove the main affinity engine. Frogmite is an absolute staple. Ive played many builds without Enforcer however so thats not that big an issue.

As for black affinity I want to experiment with a build running Goblin Welder over Atog, and Tangle Wire over something else.. Plating? I've tried it quickly for fun and it seemed to work amazingly.

Hope that quick little guide helps.

SillyMetalGAT
10-07-2006, 09:21 AM
The argurment of not playing frogmite, enforcer, or thoughtcast is just silly if you ask me. You want a very high artifact count with color cards ranging from 8-12 in the deck. Plus, confidant is very fragile and weak that can be killed quite easily.

How is that silly? Confidant is the Ringleader to Affinity. By taking out Enforcer and Thoughtcast, it makes it safe to play multiple bobs! Do you know how good multiple bobs is in this deck? I nut myself when I draw something like Land, Plating, Disciple and only lost 2 life for it. Seriously, Bob improves the consistency for your matches by 100%. He is your MVP.

My question to people is, whats a good sideboarding plan for Solidarity with B/R Affinity? Right now my only answer is Cabal Therapy... and that seems a little.... well... weak. Any suggestions?

Shriekmaw
10-07-2006, 09:34 AM
My question to people is, whats a good sideboarding plan for Solidarity with B/R Affinity? Right now my only answer is Cabal Therapy... and that seems a little.... well... weak. Any suggestions?

As for the combo matchup, I've first started sideboarding sphere of resistance, but found out its really not that great of card the more I played it. I've been now sideboarding chalice of the void against combo since it stops them pretty hard. I understand that chalice can hurt you, but when you have creatures on the board chalice for 1 or 2 against solidarity makes it real tough for them to win with a quick clock.

Confidant in the deck is good, but I just prefer my build better, thats why I'm kinda against bob in affinity. If I run Confidant, I can't run Enforcer in the deck which I just love especially in multiples.

I still favor my Berserk build since it has the quickest clock in a turn 3 kill, but sometimes I wish I had thoughtcast in the deck. Adding green into the deck gives you Naturalize in the board which is very nice and save me in a number of games.

Let me know what you guys think?

I'm always looking for ways to fine tune the deck and sideboard.

SillyMetalGAT
10-07-2006, 09:42 AM
Chalice huh? I wouldnt consider that card at first, but it could be good. I was thinking of maybe using Pyrostatic Pillar? Pillar doesn't shut you down as much as Chalice, but doesn't have the sheer game ending power Chalice has.

As for the Enforcer or Bob debate, I guess its really a meta call. I dont face a single version of Gro, with only 1 Gro deck in my meta played by a teammate of mine, so I dont miss Enforcer at all. Bob makes it so you can outrace other Aggro decks with ease. I kinda wish I had more than 1 Berserk. That way I could actually try the green splash, although I do like the concept of Rancor on Ravager....

Bane of the Living
10-07-2006, 11:46 AM
Enforcer sucks balls. I play him in R/G or W/U affinity but thats because the decks need him to pick up some slack. Even in W/U Id rather play Somber Hovergaurd since he has wings.

Flying > Non flying

How many games has a hat rack won you? Or Nexus with a metric fuck ton of modular lovin. Enforcer may seem fast coming into play on turns 2 and 3 but he gets chumped alot. Bob draws cards. Drawing cards wins games.

tsabo_tavoc
10-08-2006, 07:58 AM
There are some reports on the UB Affinity recently. Lotus Petal+Ornithopter+Tormod's Crypt-->Erayo, with Hoverguard, Enforcer, Thoughtcast, Therapy, and without Bobs. I am wondering why no one has talked about Erayo Affinity. Thoughts...

SillyMetalGAT
10-08-2006, 02:20 PM
There are some reports on the UB Affinity recently. Lotus Petal+Ornithopter+Tormod's Crypt-->Erayo, with Hoverguard, Enforcer, Thoughtcast, Therapy, and without Bobs. I am wondering why no one has talked about Erayo Affinity. Thoughts...

Its good in Extended, but Erayo as a creature could die too quickly in Legacy.

tsabo_tavoc
10-08-2006, 10:58 PM
Its good in Extended, but Erayo as a creature could die too quickly in Legacy.

http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=292851

http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=641933

SillyMetalGAT
10-09-2006, 10:20 AM
http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=292851

http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=641933

Yeah, reading threads FTL. You'll notice that right after the decklist was posted on the 2nd link, someone says exactly what I do. Bottom line, Stick to either U/W Affinity, B/R, or R/G. Erayo dies wayy too easily. She can be countered like nothing. The only thing she can do is help your combo matchup, but that doesnt seem to work too well, since she doesnt usually flip until the next turn anyways. Solidarity runs the counter for her, and IGGy pop beats you in speed. GG Erayo.

Bane of the Living
10-09-2006, 06:28 PM
If your worried about combo play the U/W version. A fast clock and soley Meddling Mage is more than enough to beat combo. Disciple really fucks up alot of them, Nausea, Iggy, Salvagers; and when Solidarity tries to win in response to lethal you can use Disciple triggers to pwn the stack.

kicks_422
10-09-2006, 09:34 PM
Here's my build of Confidant Affinity... My build focuses more on raw power than on speed...

4 Tree of Tales
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Darksteel Citadel

4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Atog
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Dark Confidant
4 Frogmite

4 Chromatic Star
4 Aether Vial
4 Cranial Plating
4 Umezawa's Jitte

SB
4 Naturalize
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Engineered Plague
3 Tormod's Crypt

Basically, this deck combines the two cards that were most recently very hated upon by the public (Ravager & Jitte) into one deadly package of blood and steel... :tongue:

Mirrislegend
10-09-2006, 09:42 PM
@ kicks: Honestly, I like your build a lot. It's straightforward, powerful, and looks very consistent. I'd go -1 Jitte, -1 or 2 Darksteel Citadel, +2 or 3 Glimmervoid. And maybe find room for Fling, The Game Ender, but otherwise, that looks like the direction Affinity needs to go. Good job.

kicks_422
10-09-2006, 09:49 PM
Thanks... :tongue: I'm actually in an obsession for artifacts now, so I've been working on 5/3, Stax, and Affinity these past few days... The draw from Confidant and Star is really a great boon to the deck, and the power from Jitte and Plating, as well as the potentially huge Ravagers and Atogs with everybody's favorite disciple seems just too much to handle on paper... Time to take it for a test drive... :tongue:

kicks_422
10-15-2006, 07:56 PM
I've adjusted my deck to this:

4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Tree of Tales
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Glimmervoid

3 Ornithopter
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Atog
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Dark Confidant
4 Frogmite

4 Aether Vial
4 Chromatic Star
4 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Cranial Plating

SB
4 Naturalize
4 Winter Orb
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Pyrostatic Pillar/Sphere of Resistance (I'm still figuring out which is the better combo-hoser - right now I'm leaning towards the pillar)

Took out 1 Thopter and 1 Plating because they're only good with each other... Ornithopters usually just end up as food, while extra Platings never helped much, as 1 is enough... I don't mind getting extra Jittes though, as that card just randomly wins games, especially in the Legacy meta...

Comments?

xsockmonkeyx
10-15-2006, 10:02 PM
Im not a fan of frogmite in this type of build. Without the affinity mechanic frogmite loses alot of its punch because you are more inclined to bust through with a large evader/fling than run guys through on the ground. My solution is to replace frog with roterothopter(yea, roterothopter). Its an overcosted ornithopter but it really is the best option you have in this type of build. The fact that it is a one mana evading artifact that you can equip/ravage outweighs the fact that its a piece of crap in a vaccum. It has been very successful for me and has won me many games where I needed to fly over the defense ftw.

kicks_422
10-15-2006, 10:15 PM
Without the affinity mechanic frogmite loses alot of its punch because you are more inclined to bust through with a large evader/fling than run guys through on the ground.

I've thought of this before, but the inclusion of Jitte in the deck dramatically changes how the deck plays... You're not relying on only speed anymore, as the power that Jitte provides is golden... A free 2/2 on turn 2 is still a great play, especially when you already have a Vial, Disciple, and Ravager in play.

If I'd go that route, I'd play Brass Gnats, just because of their unconditional 1 power which is vital for Jitte.