Playing FoW on turn 1

[matxer]

My opponent starts. I have in hand a FoW and another blue card (typically brainstorm or stifle).

Scenario 1:
He plays swamp (or dual with swamp) and dark ritual.

Do I FoW ritual ? If he intends to play duress and Hymn, that can disrupt my game completely.

Scenario 2:
He plays mountain and goblin lackey.
Do I FoW lackey if I cant block or destroy it in for some turns ?

Generally what do u FoW on turn 1 ?

[DeathwingZERO]

I will assume the first scenario is based on absolutely no knowledge of your opponents deck. At this rate, I would assume that worst case scenario against you, it'd be the Duress + Hymn play. At this point, assume your situation.

FoW requires 1 blue card to pitch, putting you at 5 cards. If he wants to hit you, he'll go for the FoW first, to be sure that the Hymn would go off without a hitch, or just hit the blue card you have, if that's all you have for a pitch.

At this rate, he's spent 3 cards (Dark Ritual, Duress, Hymn), plus his land, to rip 3 cards from your hand, 2 of which he had no control over. I assume having FoW in your deck, your playing the control route. I would say don't use the FoW, because chances are if he's a good player, he'd use the Duress to bait your FoW, and Hymn goes off without a hitch, hitting you for 4 cards and 1 life, making it a 1:1 in his favor (because he has a land in play, already a turn ahead of you). Typically a "power play" such as this is going to have either a rediculous follow up (like Shade, Dark Confidant, Sinkhole etc from Deadguy, or any type of a clock from Sui-Black) or absolutely nothing at all. When looking at this, if you did FoW the Ritual, he's still holding the Duress, and the Hymn. At that point, that means you've gone down 2 cards, and he still has his disruption, both of which are more than likely able to be online next turn, and he's already got card advantage on you. This is all hypothetical, I remind you, as once you've got an idea of what the deck does, you can determine your own worst case scenario, and at that point, there's a good chance it would be good to counter the Ritual, though very rare.

As for Lackey, it's almost a given that he is literally the #1 target for FoW. It's going to be an absolute given to take this card out, because worst case scenario, you're practically guaranteed dead by your 4th turn, if not 3rd (A Lackey-induced clock is a hard one to beat, indeed). He makes Piledriver, SGC, Warchief, anything that's a threat now a non-counterable one, making your FoW even worse. DEFINITELY hit the Lackey. Especially if you don't have removal. If you do, (Swords, Smother, anything that can still hit a Piledriver, for example), definitely counter Lackey, and save the removal for when Piledriver would be considered a problem. Nearly everything else in the deck is secondary damage.

Hope this lengthy reply helps.

[tivadar]

Hmm, I totally agree with DeathwingZero in Scenario 1, but disagree with him in Scenario 2. The fact is, yes, without other removal, I'd hit lackey with FoW. But having stp and FoW, I'd save the FoW and use the stp. This is because a lot of his later threats (siege gang, matron, ringleader) are less of problems on the board than they are coming into play. Removal doesn't stop coming into play, FoW does. Basically, if you use the FoW, you're also putting yourself at a bit of card disadvantage that you don't have to be. If you save it, you may be keeping yourself from going down cards when he casts a matron or ringleader.

[quicksilver]

If your opponent starts with dark rit, I would almsot never counter the dark rit. Say for example he was going to do duress and hymn. By countering the ritual, it only delays the duress and hymn, it doesn't stop them. So by countering the rit, you lost two cards, then duress and hymn over the next two turns makes you lose 5 cards, when if you didn't force at all you would have only lost three. Also, if it is not duress/hymn that he is playing, say he plays negator or hyppie, then you force that and lose no card advantage.

As for the lackey, if you don't have anything to kill him before he would hit you, I would force it. You don't want him killing you on turn three, plus if he brings in a ringleader off the lackey then you probably lost more card advantage than if you had forced the lackey to begin with, plus you still got the lackey to deal with.

[Evil Roopey]

What if he is playing Nausea or IGGy-Pop and goes broken in your face?

[quicksilver]

What if he is playing Nausea or IGGy-Pop and goes broken in your face?

Well if he is playing nausea you've already won. If he's playing Iggy pop, then countering the ill gotten gains would probably be the better play.

[legacyplayer0]

If a spell is threatening enough, does it really matter what turn it is casted on?

[MattH]

I wouldn't Force a Ritual but if I had a Disrupt I would use that.

[DeathwingZERO]

Ok, here's the scoop against combo (my decks of choice, so I'll let you in on typical first turn plays):

Solidarity- WILL NOT GO OFF TURN 1. You're fine. They'll wait at least 3 turns, the deck almost never goes off without at least 3 Islands in play, short of multiple High Tides, Resets, and at least 2 card draw spells in hand, and even then, that's a risk at only 2 lands.

Nausea- For those that still waste their time on this deck as opposed to playing out Solidarity or IGGY Pop, both which have proven much better results, hit the draw/search, not the acceleration. If they use a single Dark Ritual, and attempt to use Night's Whisper, or another viable draw spell, counter that. The acceleration doesn't win the game for this deck, the drawing and search does. If you cripple that, you win. Just make sure to see what their hand and mana looks like at any given point they try another search or card draw, if it looks like they're low on options, hit them at the first opportunity.

IGGY Pop- After testing and goldfishing this deck alone for the past few months, this is what I have for IGGY's gameplan. This deck will NOT win on a SINGLE Dark Ritual resolving on turn 1. If the IGGY player is playing a turn 1 hand, before they even attempt the Dark Ritual, they've gotten an LED, Lotus Petal, or something else on the board. The deck cannot win with only 1 land and no artificial accelerants, short of a hand that's basically going to win on it's sole Infernal Tutor, or IGG (after numerous Ritual's), and if it's countered, it's GG. If the turn 1 doesn't have an LED in play, don't counter the Ritual. Chances are, they're attempting to either do an Infernal Tutor to get a duplicate card, or going into another Ritual, to try for an Ill-Gotten play, which causes a scoop as soon as you counter the Gains (or just really good mana burn). A good IGGY player would let the LED be the bait, as it's just as good after Gains as on the table, than to let the acceleration (which is the only way to go off turn 1, remember) get hit. Remember, the deck typically needs to float a lot of mana before casting Gains, Intuition, or Infernal Tutor. This means they're very unlikely to have access to a combo piece as backup if the first is countered, and that's it's weakness. Again, much like Nausea, this deck doesn't win through mana, it wins through search effects. Counter Gains, Intuition, or Infernal Tutor, and the rest is all secondary.

As for my opinion on the threat level for Goblins, here's my choices:
1- Lackey
2- Piledriver
3- Warchief
4- Ringleader
5- Anything else (Matron included)
This is based on the number each deck plays, the likelyhood of them being a real threat, and how often you will see them drop in the first 2 turns.

If you do not have an StP, Smother, or anything else to get the Lackey before he swings, Force it. Even the first swing can be potential enough to kill you by third turn. He's rediculously fast, and it makes everything drop for free, freeing up even more mana for cheaper goblins. It's the reason he's still on the chopping block at DCI, he is what makes Goblins almost TOO good.

If however, you do have something to take him out, hold the FoW as long as possible. I agree with card advantage being a problem, though with the threat density of this deck (I listed 16 just off those top 4, plus Siege-Gang, Kiki-Jiki, Sharpshooter, and Matrons), counter alone won't help you. Work over in your head what creatures you have to block with, what other removal you have to offer, and what other countermagic/bounce/utility is up your sleeve. Goblins are absolutely straight-forward, and expecting a "worst case scenario" is always a good idea, since it's very likely to happen.

Early blockers makes Lackey useless, lessens the damage from Piledrivers, and becomes targets for Sharpshooters or Incinerators. That's enough to disrupt the gameplan a little, making Warchief your new "high threat" in this scenario for instance, due to his amount of speed he provides with dropping more threats.