[New Card Discussion] Serra Avenger

[Clark Kant]

Serra Avenger WW
Creature - Angel (R)
Flying, Vigilance
You can't play Serra Avenger during your first, second, or third turns of the game
"Those who endure in the face of suffering, those whose faith shines long in evil days, they shall see salvation."
-Song of All, canto 904
3/3

How strong do you think the card is? Is it a shoe in for Angel Stompy for example?

Edit: Holy Crap. How did miss this card?

Jaya's out. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30557&d=1157602010

What is up with Wizards constantly trying to ramp up the powerlevel of creatures. Not just these cards, I mean more as a general trend.

They're going to wreck the game if they keep it up.

As for this card's uses...

It works with Vial.

It would work in a deck like Deadguy Ale if the deck ran more 4 more fetchlands for more consistency. You spend your first three turns playing disruption or Confidant or Hypnotic Specter anyways. Vigilance is a very nice bonus for something that won't cost you a ton of life when Confidant reveals it.

Do you guys think Deadguy will start running this?

As Mike said, The biggest problem with WW is that it has far too many two drops. Legacy in specific is packed with two drops. This means you can play it along with another creature or a Sinkhole or Hymn in Deadguy on Turn 4.

[Poron]

With the last expansions, Wizards has alwyas improved white. Now it has the best small creatures ever seen and Exalted Angel too.. More: they give Propaganda to white! and Arcane Laboratory to white and, even worse Suppression Field which no other color has..

And now this strange angel to play in 2x-3x. Someone in Wizard do love white.

[tivadar]

And they gave disenchant to green... wizards likes to do colorshifting recently. Anyways, I don't think this will see play in AS just because it basically REQUIRES vial to be good. By turn 4, AS can typically be swinging with a morphed angel, which is much better. Also, let's not forget Jotun Grunt, which can actually come out on turn 2 and is a 4/4 rather than 3/3. Even that currently isn't seeing much play (granted it has a pretty fast decay rate).

I think what, if anything, AS is looking for now is a good creature to smooth out its curve a bit. A good 3cc would do nicely, adding another 2cc only opens you up even more to chalice.

As for Jaya, she seems mediocre at best. Sure the abilities are cool, but it's 3 mana (RR even) for a 2/2, with no haste and a fairly steep mana-cost for the abilities she's given. Let's also not forget about pithing needle.

[Volt]

And they gave disenchant to green... wizards likes to do colorshifting recently.

And let's not forget they gave Fork to blue and Psionic Blast to red. blah blah blah. :tongue:

[Evil Roopey]

As for Jaya, she seems mediocre at best. Sure the abilities are cool, but it's 3 mana (RR even) for a 2/2, with no haste and a fairly steep mana-cost for the abilities she's given. Let's also not forget about pithing needle.

I don't think they have printed a creature that has removal built into it that didn't see a shit load of play. It turns every card in your hand into half a Blast, Incinerate, or an Inferno. That's not a horrible deal.

[Tao]

I don't think they have printed a creature that has removal built into it that didn't see a shit load of play. It turns every card in your hand into half a Blast, Incinerate, or an Inferno. That's not a horrible deal.

That's true. It is an absolute Limited bomb and will probably see play in standard.

But I don't think this is good in Legacy. The Incinerate ability is easily outclassed by Grim Lavamancer and the other abilities are too random.

[Ophidian]

That's true. It is an absolute Limited bomb and will probably see play in standard.

But I don't think this is good in Legacy. The Incinerate ability is easily outclassed by Grim Lavamancer and the other abilities are too random.


Are you serious? She has incredible synergy WITH Lavamancer. She puts cards in the 'yard... that + Lavamancer is ... good! Plus, she'll have amazing synergy with Scroll by keeping your hand low. Not to mention a Frog in a Blender variant deck-- oh yeah, she's definitely going to be an all star.

[Eldariel]

Regarding Serra Avenger, 3 letters:
WWW

Vial, Wasteland (effectively, it kinda nullifies turns), etc.

[Evil Roopey]

Are you serious? She has incredible synergy WITH Lavamancer. She puts cards in the 'yard... that + Lavamancer is ... good! Plus, she'll have amazing synergy with Scroll by keeping your hand low. Not to mention a Frog in a Blender variant deck-- oh yeah, she's definitely going to be an all star.

Not only that but under a Standstill she seems fucking delicious.

[wmagzoo7]

Wow yeah this could be quite good with a u/w aggro landstill esque deck using vial and force and the angel and all kinds of fun cards that are under priced so it would be a seemingly u/w angel stompy deck that uses standstill very nice. This card could be played in angel stompy imo because vial makes her drawback not a drawback at all.

[Lego]

Regarding Serra Avenger, 3 letters:
WWW

Vial, Wasteland (effectively, it kinda nullifies turns), etc.

I'm building this right now! Akroma, what? Meet Karakas.

[Ophidian]

Not only that but under a Standstill she seems fucking delicious.

Not only that, but she also rocks with Standstills bastard step cousin, Hatching Plans. hmm...

[Zilla]

If anything, this card belongs in U/W Vial Fish. It doesn't belong in Angel Stompy. A 3/3 flier is nice and all, but its conditions will lead to more negative situations than it will create positive ones. For example, being stuck on turn two without a creature to cast, when you're holding a Jitte you could cast and equip turn 3? That would be bad. Angel Stompy already has some problems with the consistency of its creature to equipment ratio. Adding in conditional creatures like this can only worsen it.

[Tacosnape]

Could Angel Stax run this? Or some variation thereof? It seems like a deck that's more concerned with spending its first few turns getting lock pieces on the board, though I admit to having very little experience with it.

[Eldariel]

Heavily White, aggressive decks with Vial are the ones that should look at her. Angel Stax really has no use for a card that costs less than alternatives and the fact that Exalted Angel gains the life can be really helpful against just about anything running creatures, while a lowly Nimble Mongoose will throw a wrench at Avenger's gameplan.

I don't think there's room for her in any control-deck, as there are just better finishers, especially the other Angel that comes out turn 4 swinging.

[Kadaj]

Heh, Wizards sure knows how to reawaken my interest in new sets. With proverbial "jig-saw puzzles" like this, Mishra, and Teferi. The card is inherently powerful in some way, but it needs a home to really be effective.

I would agree in principle that an agressive white deck with Aether Vial is the one to abuse this. Between this and Jotun Grunt could we finally see Fish edge towards actual viability?

[wmagzoo7]

Yeah in fish it could be very good I tried to put this into a deck that was a mix of vialish fish esque deck that is a very rough list but still could be pretty decent and has been goldfishing at a good rate.
// Lands
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
4 [A] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)

// Creatures
3 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
4 [A] Savannah Lions
3 [R] Serendib Efreet
4 [SC] Silver Knight
3 [CHK] Isamaru, Hound of Konda

// Spells
3 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
4 [VG] Serra Avenger
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] AEther Vial

[scrumdogg]

The problem with decks like these are their already high reliance on Vial. Increasing that reliance leads to situations where your own deck kicks the shit out of you when your opponent can handle your Vial. Serra Slow Roll is fine in a control deck....maybe....but you really don't want to topdeck one Turn 6, in any deck, unless you have active Vial. But that begs the question, aren't you already winning/in a good position?

[M.Maddox]

Question was answered above, sorry.

[wmagzoo7]

I guess you are right Scrumdog that it would be a win more card and would make it more relying on vial but is that really a bad thing since little to no decks run md artifact hate and this deck runs BLUE.

[Anarky87]

Serra Slow Roll is fine in a control deck....maybe....but you really don't want to topdeck one Turn 6, in any deck, unless you have active Vial.

But wouldn't you just be able to topdeck and cast her turn 6 without Vial? It only says it can't be cast the first, second, or third turns of the game. I'd say turn 6 would be well past those.

[scrumdogg]

But wouldn't you just be able to topdeck and cast her turn 6 without Vial? It only says it can't be cast the first, second, or third turns of the game. I'd say turn 6 would be well past those.

You are indeed correct, I need to not post when I am sleep deprived :) Had her mixed up with something having suspend....which sucks monkey nut mid-late game as a draw.... I stand behind THAT statement :) Still seems a bit...underpowered...as a control finisher though.

[wmagzoo7]

Underpowered as a finisher maybe compared to morphling yes but almost everything else this would not be underpowered because in my memory I don't think there has every been a 3/3 vigilant flier for 2 MANA every. Also who said that it would need to be a control finisher esque card because I could see it in some form of w/x aggro.

[Anarky87]

You are indeed correct, I need to not post when I am sleep deprived :) Had her mixed up with something having suspend....which sucks monkey nut mid-late game as a draw.... I stand behind THAT statement :) Still seems a bit...underpowered...as a control finisher though.

It's cool, I thought that maybe there was a rule interraction there I didn't know about. I agree with you about the Suspend part. I wouldn't see the Avenger as a control finisher, but in some kind of fish-esque type deck, perhaps with Vial, I think it could do pretty well.


Underpowered as a finisher maybe compared to morphling yes but almost everything else this would not be underpowered because in my memory I don't think there has every been a 3/3 vigilant flier for 2 MANA every. Also who said that it would need to be a control finisher esque card because I could see it in some form of w/x aggro.

You summed up my post. Qft.

[scrumdogg]

You almost have to have either Vial or Chrome Mox or Show & Tell or Brainstorm or some way to use it/replace it on Turns 1-3, or it sits in your hand, dead, mocking you. That bothers me....cuz it so awesome otherwise.

[Anarky87]

I think with the likes of Brainstorm, Standstill, etc, and maybe capping out at 3 Avengers and 4 Vials, there shouldn't be too many problems. And there's probably other things you'll be playing in the first 2-3 turns that by the time you start thinking about bringing it down, you can do it unhindered. But yeah, seeing it sit in your hand turns 1-3 would definitely be gayer than 8 guys blowing 9 guys.