aznfoodgood
09-16-2006, 06:21 PM
Throughout the years, madness has been one of the most prominent decks in almost every format. Unfortunately with threshold running around, Madness has been eclipsed by, what many people, think is a superior deck. Although both madness and threshold play very similarly, there mechanics are completely different; threshold relies on cards in graveyard and can be hated out with graveyard hate. Madness, on the other hand, relies on discarding cards through “outlets” for cheaper casting costs. Madness only has one soul enemy, pithing needle. While it is a very powerful card, most decks don’t “bring it in” until post side board. Even if you don’t get your madness creature, the deck can still function where as threshold must achieve 7 cards in the yard before they can do anything, and 5 hard counters and 4 spot removal aren’t going to do it
And so I give you the decklist
Creatures
4 basking rootwalla
4 wild mongrel
4 patrol hound <- YES!!
4 arrogant wurm
3 meddling mage
2 wonder
Counters
4 circular logic
4 force of will
draw
4 brain storm
spot removal
4 swords to plowshares
awesome…
3 Umezawa’s Jitte
mana base
4 tropical island
3 savannah
3 tundra
4 windswept heath
4 flooded strand
1 island
1 forest
side board
4 honorable passage look this one and I think you will laugh
3 blue elemental blast
4 naturalize
4 jotun grunt
card choices
4 basking rootwalla at 1/0 mana hes on obvious choice, taking down opposing watch wolves and threshold mongooses, he earns a spot in this deck. Also becoming a late game 3/3 beater makes him a not bad top deck
4 wild mongrel: every one loves the dog, hes a 2/2 grizzly bear that can avoid dark banishing and terror wile also getting +1/+1 when ever you discard, an all around good card, I would run 8 if I could
4 patrol hound: the lesser know dog, getting first strike allows him to combat angle stompy’s knights and trade with them, also his discard ability makes him only 2nd to wild mongrel
4 arrogant wurm: a 4/4 trample for 5cc is mediocre but a 4/4 trample for 3cc is beats. Probably the main man in most of my wins. Casting at instant speed makes wurm a great card, playing him at end of turn if there are no counter targets. Also a great late game beater, no one hates a 4/4 =D
3 meddling mage: allows you to stop combo in its tracks as well as being able to pitch to force if will makes this card very powerful. Mage is a good control card but is also a 2/2 body, and that should not be overlooked. Early in the game it is a strong card but off of the top deck, it stops late game fatties from hitting the board
2 wonder: I was thinking about playing more but I really don’t know. Wonder has always found a spot in madness, being the most powerful incarnation that is not mana intensive. It can also double as a 2/2 flyer
counters
4 circular logic: always a viable counter because if your graveyard size and at 1cc its far better then force spike could ever be. Although it is dependent on having a madness outlet, it is a very strong counter once you have one in play.
4 force of will: ha ha ha, I don’t think I need to explain this one. Probably the best counter in the game. No mana and the only requirement is having a blue card in your hand. That’s okay by me
draw
4 brainstorm: better then careful study because it digs deeper and is an instant. Also you do not have to discard cards, witch this deck does not do very well. The lack of deep analyses and roar of the wurm makes this card less valuable
spot removal
4 swords to plowshares: best spot removal in the game. A 1 cc card that takes all but the most hardy cards down. The trolls and the mongooses must be countered
awesome
3 jitte: yes this deck does harness the power of jitte and uses it to great success. Jitte allows for mid to late game board pressure and is great in most creature decks (not counting goblins or affinity)
Mana base:
Week against wasteland but aren’t most 3-color decks that way? Some basics supplement this but are probably not sufficient
Why not red? Well simply because they are 2 completely different aspects and give you many different cards. White gives the deck mage as well as swords. Red gives anger and violent eruption. I came to the conclusion that white would be better only because the red version would require more mana beats (as it is more aggressive) the white version would play more like and agro control deck.
Sideboard
Mostly meta intensive. Lots of globins in my area and combo is lacking. Joten grunt allows you to beet threshold and blue elemental blast gives you 7 swords to plowshares against goblins. Also honorable passage protects against price of progress
Cards that are not included
Aquamobea- patrol hound is just better and although you can discard it to force of will, 17 blue cards is enough to run it, I believe the cut off is 16
Wasteland- I am a ware that the jecon winning madness played 4 of these but I think mana fixing is more important
Roar of the wurm- a great late game card but just to mana intensive. Usually this deck curves out easily at 3 and possibly 4 for jitte. Roar of the wurm is a very powerful card but I believe that it is relying to severally to be discarded.
Careful study- to slow, no synergy and a million other reasons, this will not be an argument of careful study vs. brainstorm, it is very pointless.
Deep analyses- for much of the same reason as roar. At 4 mana for 2 cards, this card is terrible, its flash back means you must pay 3 life and 2 mana and I have found this, along with the fetch lands, to be very life intensive, most times costing me 5 points of life per game.
Geniuses- a powerful late game engine but it has now room in a deck like this. Hard casting it means that shit hit the fan. And at a 4/4 for 5, its more meh then good.
Lions eye diamond- great in explosive versions that splash red, but not hear. LED can work as an outlet but most times it gives you devastating card disadvantage. Off of the top deck, it makes you want to cry…
Waterfront bouncer/ merfolk looter: I hate tap abilities, they are non aggressive and some what stupid. Bouncer is to mana intensive and looter will probably end up with a huge hole in is head before he can tap for anything. This deck focuses on early beats with cheap and effective counters
Daze- threshold likes this card but I don’t. with lots of tempo drawbacks, this card just sucks really bad and off of the top deck it makes you want to cry, almost as much as LED. Although it is not mana intensive, I just don’t see the point in running it, circular logic seems much more powerful
Match ups
Goblins: arguably the best agro deck in the format. Pre board you have 8 turn one answers to lackey. Your flying ability means you will stop him into the ground and the counters should be enough to stop ringleaders. Jitte makes them cry and an active one will put them out of the game. Pre board I believe that it is 45/55 in goblins favor. However this where everything changes. Post board you get 7 swords (3 blue elemental blast) as well as honorable passage witch can single handedly win you the game.
Threshold: this mach up has been Farley good for me, 55/45 or almost 60/40 in my favor. Although most threshold decks run main deck needle, you have so many targets, most times they don’t know what to name. Jitte is somewhat helpful and mage naming swords, although you control swords as well, will stop them from killing off your outlets. Post board, joten grunt is a really pain in the ass for them. Dropping him on turn 4 will keep threshold off of thresh for roughly 4-5 turns depending on there draws. This is the exact time when you counter with the hole kitchen sink. Naturalize will also help against needle but that shouldn’t be a big deal to start with
Combo- I believe that this mach up is fairly bad for you but hopefully counters will stop ill gotten gains and high tide. Also mage naming brain freeze/ tendrils is a huge pain for both combo decks.
Life- not tested, counter the peaces and use jitte to kill en-kor creatures. If he goes off, its game over. Mage will help but its hard to tell how much. Swords are also a great eliminator in response to creatures. Aether vile just hurts…
Rock-60/40 counter what you can especially dead. Once you get wonder, the game is over fairly quickly. His deck has hand destruction but brainstorm will help you hide cards like jitte and force of will.
Angel stompy: 60/40 watch out for angle, patrol hound should trade with all of his monsters. Counter the equipment ext. Most of the time, madness’ creature will be better then angels
Stax/ 5/3: 50/50 trinsphear is the big pain, tangle wire, you can deal with. Counter the trinsphear and the equipment, swords what ever you can and stay on top of him. Post board bring in naturalize and kick his ass
Zoo: 50/50 its fast, and its spot removal dose hurt, but that’s why counters are so good. Patrol hound will own troll and make him want to cry. Swords zoos main threats and block the others. Post board bring in blue elemental blast as well as honorable passage, its virtually a spot removal counter that hits him in the face.
R/G beats 55/45 slightly worse then zoo because that’s basically what it is, a worse zoo deck.
Fish/ landstill not a force in my meta because of all of the goblins players. I assume that it is 60/40 because you run as many counters as they do and madness has more beets then weak ass manlands
Fairy stompy- err I really don’t know… sorry about this, I have never tested it, it doesn’t seem to be a very good deck in general
Ichorid: 70-30 jitte just owns all of his 3/1 hate guys. Counter tolarian wind. Your wonder will match his and block is flyers. Post board. Joten grunt is game over…
Counter sliver: wow, a bad match up 40-60 or even 30-70. its hard to deal with crystalin sliver and talon sliver gives universals first strike to his creatures. after worship hits the table, the game is over
Rec- sur/ R/G survival advan. Its funny when they try to play with out survival or rofellos because there’s just no way to power out enough creatures to stop you
Dead guy/ home brew: very very week, not many strong creatures, swords the shade or counter it. Is discard does hurt but not enough to stop you from wining.
Summary: all in all, madness has played very well for me on many occasions. It does not expose it self to much graveyard hate. Its games against the more prominent decks look fairly good but more play testing will allow this deck to come back from the dead.
Pease respond with constructive criticism, all comets are welcome as well as play test discoveries
And so I give you the decklist
Creatures
4 basking rootwalla
4 wild mongrel
4 patrol hound <- YES!!
4 arrogant wurm
3 meddling mage
2 wonder
Counters
4 circular logic
4 force of will
draw
4 brain storm
spot removal
4 swords to plowshares
awesome…
3 Umezawa’s Jitte
mana base
4 tropical island
3 savannah
3 tundra
4 windswept heath
4 flooded strand
1 island
1 forest
side board
4 honorable passage look this one and I think you will laugh
3 blue elemental blast
4 naturalize
4 jotun grunt
card choices
4 basking rootwalla at 1/0 mana hes on obvious choice, taking down opposing watch wolves and threshold mongooses, he earns a spot in this deck. Also becoming a late game 3/3 beater makes him a not bad top deck
4 wild mongrel: every one loves the dog, hes a 2/2 grizzly bear that can avoid dark banishing and terror wile also getting +1/+1 when ever you discard, an all around good card, I would run 8 if I could
4 patrol hound: the lesser know dog, getting first strike allows him to combat angle stompy’s knights and trade with them, also his discard ability makes him only 2nd to wild mongrel
4 arrogant wurm: a 4/4 trample for 5cc is mediocre but a 4/4 trample for 3cc is beats. Probably the main man in most of my wins. Casting at instant speed makes wurm a great card, playing him at end of turn if there are no counter targets. Also a great late game beater, no one hates a 4/4 =D
3 meddling mage: allows you to stop combo in its tracks as well as being able to pitch to force if will makes this card very powerful. Mage is a good control card but is also a 2/2 body, and that should not be overlooked. Early in the game it is a strong card but off of the top deck, it stops late game fatties from hitting the board
2 wonder: I was thinking about playing more but I really don’t know. Wonder has always found a spot in madness, being the most powerful incarnation that is not mana intensive. It can also double as a 2/2 flyer
counters
4 circular logic: always a viable counter because if your graveyard size and at 1cc its far better then force spike could ever be. Although it is dependent on having a madness outlet, it is a very strong counter once you have one in play.
4 force of will: ha ha ha, I don’t think I need to explain this one. Probably the best counter in the game. No mana and the only requirement is having a blue card in your hand. That’s okay by me
draw
4 brainstorm: better then careful study because it digs deeper and is an instant. Also you do not have to discard cards, witch this deck does not do very well. The lack of deep analyses and roar of the wurm makes this card less valuable
spot removal
4 swords to plowshares: best spot removal in the game. A 1 cc card that takes all but the most hardy cards down. The trolls and the mongooses must be countered
awesome
3 jitte: yes this deck does harness the power of jitte and uses it to great success. Jitte allows for mid to late game board pressure and is great in most creature decks (not counting goblins or affinity)
Mana base:
Week against wasteland but aren’t most 3-color decks that way? Some basics supplement this but are probably not sufficient
Why not red? Well simply because they are 2 completely different aspects and give you many different cards. White gives the deck mage as well as swords. Red gives anger and violent eruption. I came to the conclusion that white would be better only because the red version would require more mana beats (as it is more aggressive) the white version would play more like and agro control deck.
Sideboard
Mostly meta intensive. Lots of globins in my area and combo is lacking. Joten grunt allows you to beet threshold and blue elemental blast gives you 7 swords to plowshares against goblins. Also honorable passage protects against price of progress
Cards that are not included
Aquamobea- patrol hound is just better and although you can discard it to force of will, 17 blue cards is enough to run it, I believe the cut off is 16
Wasteland- I am a ware that the jecon winning madness played 4 of these but I think mana fixing is more important
Roar of the wurm- a great late game card but just to mana intensive. Usually this deck curves out easily at 3 and possibly 4 for jitte. Roar of the wurm is a very powerful card but I believe that it is relying to severally to be discarded.
Careful study- to slow, no synergy and a million other reasons, this will not be an argument of careful study vs. brainstorm, it is very pointless.
Deep analyses- for much of the same reason as roar. At 4 mana for 2 cards, this card is terrible, its flash back means you must pay 3 life and 2 mana and I have found this, along with the fetch lands, to be very life intensive, most times costing me 5 points of life per game.
Geniuses- a powerful late game engine but it has now room in a deck like this. Hard casting it means that shit hit the fan. And at a 4/4 for 5, its more meh then good.
Lions eye diamond- great in explosive versions that splash red, but not hear. LED can work as an outlet but most times it gives you devastating card disadvantage. Off of the top deck, it makes you want to cry…
Waterfront bouncer/ merfolk looter: I hate tap abilities, they are non aggressive and some what stupid. Bouncer is to mana intensive and looter will probably end up with a huge hole in is head before he can tap for anything. This deck focuses on early beats with cheap and effective counters
Daze- threshold likes this card but I don’t. with lots of tempo drawbacks, this card just sucks really bad and off of the top deck it makes you want to cry, almost as much as LED. Although it is not mana intensive, I just don’t see the point in running it, circular logic seems much more powerful
Match ups
Goblins: arguably the best agro deck in the format. Pre board you have 8 turn one answers to lackey. Your flying ability means you will stop him into the ground and the counters should be enough to stop ringleaders. Jitte makes them cry and an active one will put them out of the game. Pre board I believe that it is 45/55 in goblins favor. However this where everything changes. Post board you get 7 swords (3 blue elemental blast) as well as honorable passage witch can single handedly win you the game.
Threshold: this mach up has been Farley good for me, 55/45 or almost 60/40 in my favor. Although most threshold decks run main deck needle, you have so many targets, most times they don’t know what to name. Jitte is somewhat helpful and mage naming swords, although you control swords as well, will stop them from killing off your outlets. Post board, joten grunt is a really pain in the ass for them. Dropping him on turn 4 will keep threshold off of thresh for roughly 4-5 turns depending on there draws. This is the exact time when you counter with the hole kitchen sink. Naturalize will also help against needle but that shouldn’t be a big deal to start with
Combo- I believe that this mach up is fairly bad for you but hopefully counters will stop ill gotten gains and high tide. Also mage naming brain freeze/ tendrils is a huge pain for both combo decks.
Life- not tested, counter the peaces and use jitte to kill en-kor creatures. If he goes off, its game over. Mage will help but its hard to tell how much. Swords are also a great eliminator in response to creatures. Aether vile just hurts…
Rock-60/40 counter what you can especially dead. Once you get wonder, the game is over fairly quickly. His deck has hand destruction but brainstorm will help you hide cards like jitte and force of will.
Angel stompy: 60/40 watch out for angle, patrol hound should trade with all of his monsters. Counter the equipment ext. Most of the time, madness’ creature will be better then angels
Stax/ 5/3: 50/50 trinsphear is the big pain, tangle wire, you can deal with. Counter the trinsphear and the equipment, swords what ever you can and stay on top of him. Post board bring in naturalize and kick his ass
Zoo: 50/50 its fast, and its spot removal dose hurt, but that’s why counters are so good. Patrol hound will own troll and make him want to cry. Swords zoos main threats and block the others. Post board bring in blue elemental blast as well as honorable passage, its virtually a spot removal counter that hits him in the face.
R/G beats 55/45 slightly worse then zoo because that’s basically what it is, a worse zoo deck.
Fish/ landstill not a force in my meta because of all of the goblins players. I assume that it is 60/40 because you run as many counters as they do and madness has more beets then weak ass manlands
Fairy stompy- err I really don’t know… sorry about this, I have never tested it, it doesn’t seem to be a very good deck in general
Ichorid: 70-30 jitte just owns all of his 3/1 hate guys. Counter tolarian wind. Your wonder will match his and block is flyers. Post board. Joten grunt is game over…
Counter sliver: wow, a bad match up 40-60 or even 30-70. its hard to deal with crystalin sliver and talon sliver gives universals first strike to his creatures. after worship hits the table, the game is over
Rec- sur/ R/G survival advan. Its funny when they try to play with out survival or rofellos because there’s just no way to power out enough creatures to stop you
Dead guy/ home brew: very very week, not many strong creatures, swords the shade or counter it. Is discard does hurt but not enough to stop you from wining.
Summary: all in all, madness has played very well for me on many occasions. It does not expose it self to much graveyard hate. Its games against the more prominent decks look fairly good but more play testing will allow this deck to come back from the dead.
Pease respond with constructive criticism, all comets are welcome as well as play test discoveries