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Zilla
09-18-2006, 10:11 PM
From the mtgsalvation spoiler:

Juzam Sliver - 2BB
Creature - Sliver
All Slivers have "At the beginning of your upkeep, this creature deals 1 damage to you".
5/5

Not only are they reprinting Juzam Djinn, they're making it better. Insanity.

Ta Jugs
09-18-2006, 10:16 PM
This cannot be correct. It must be a joke or something.

Volt
09-18-2006, 10:18 PM
Downright nutty. Red Death should run Sedge Sliver + Juzzam Sliver.

Jolfer
09-18-2006, 10:20 PM
Downright nutty. Red Death should run Sedge Sliver + Juzzam Sliver.

Why so you can take extra damage each turn?

But that really sucks for people if their Dijnns drop in price because of this.

Volt
09-18-2006, 10:26 PM
Why so you can take extra damage each turn?

But that really sucks for people if their Dijnns drop in price because of this.

I don't think the damage is a big concern. In reality, the concern is probably that those creatures are just a smidge too slow for Red Death.

Ta Jugs
09-18-2006, 10:31 PM
Do you actually believe this card exists. The cards they put up at the same time were unsure, something, and unkown. Those were the card names.

Jolfer
09-18-2006, 10:31 PM
I don't think the damage is a big concern. In reality, the concern is probably that those creatures are just a smidge too slow for Red Death.

Well you were saying it with an implication that it was somehow better than being able to play Dijnn which would be a better choice for the deck, just way more expensive.

Volt
09-18-2006, 10:36 PM
Well you were saying it with an implication that it was somehow better than being able to play Dijnn which would be a better choice for the deck, just way more expensive.

Well, Sedge Sliver would give the Juzzam Sliver +1/+1 (and give it regeneration, but that likely won't matter). But, like I said, they're probably just a little too slow for the deck anyway.

SillyMetalGAT
09-18-2006, 10:42 PM
From the mtgsalvation spoiler:

Juzam Sliver - 2BB
Creature - Sliver
All Slivers have "At the beginning of your upkeep, this creature deals 1 damage to you".
5/5

Not only are they reprinting Juzam Djinn, they're making it better. Insanity.

Godzilla, you are the man.

Machinus
09-18-2006, 10:42 PM
I was kind of hoping the card was actually called "holy shit..."

I don't see why this is good. Can someone explain it to me?

Jolfer
09-18-2006, 10:53 PM
I was kind of hoping the card was actually called "holy shit..."

I don't see why this is good. Can someone explain it to me?

I don't think anyone is talking about the power level of the card. It's just surprising that they're essentially reprinting a 100$+ dollar card.

Zilla
09-18-2006, 10:59 PM
Why so you can take extra damage each turn?
You're so right. They should unban Necropotence too, because seriously, who wants to pay life for cards? The life loss from a few extra Slivers can definitely be worth it if it improves your threats significantly. It's really not hard at all to offset the life loss with... I dunno. Shit, maybe if they printed a card for a creature-based deck that somehow allowed you to gain life for attacking. If they wanted to make it really good, maybe it could act as removal too. And pump. Oh right, Jitte.

Furthermore, the card on its own is tech against CounterSliver. The deck's not that popular now, but it's a solid contender and is gaining popularity. Remember that it causes all your opponent's Slivers to ping them every turn as well. All their threats pump this guy as well.



I don't see why this is good. Can someone explain it to me?
Because one of Suicide's greatest shortcomings in this format is that, by and large, black creatures suck. This one does not, particularly if you park it alongside other Slivers.

Machinus
09-18-2006, 11:00 PM
Doesn't this get worse when you add slivers??

Blair Phoenix
09-18-2006, 11:03 PM
You're so right. They should unban Necropotence too, because seriously, who wants to pay life for cards? The life loss from a few extra Slivers can definitely be worth it if it improves your threats significantly. It's really not hard at all to offset the life loss with... I dunno. Shit, maybe if they printed a card for a creature-based deck that somehow allowed you to gain life for attacking. If they wanted to make it really good, maybe it could act as removal too. And pump. Oh right, Jitte.

Furthermore, the card on its own is tech against CounterSliver. The deck's not that popular now, but it's a solid contender and is gaining popularity. Remember that it causes all your opponent's Slivers to ping them every turn as well. All their threats pump this guy as well.



Because one of Suicide's greatest shortcomings in this format is that, by and large, black creatures suck. This one does not, particularly if you park it alongside other Slivers.

This Sliver + Essence Sliver

SillyMetalGAT
09-18-2006, 11:08 PM
Its not if you own Juzam Djinn. IF you don't, he just got about 90 dollars cheaper. He also if unaffected by King Suleiman, and we all know that guys tech.

Jolfer
09-18-2006, 11:11 PM
You're so right. They should unban Necropotence too, because seriously, who wants to pay life for cards? The life loss from a few extra Slivers can definitely be worth it if it improves your threats significantly. It's really not hard at all to offset the life loss with... I dunno. Shit, maybe if they printed a card for a creature-based deck that somehow allowed you to gain life for attacking. If they wanted to make it really good, maybe it could act as removal too. And pump. Oh right, Jitte.

The last time I checked there is a pretty big difference between drawing X cards for X life and losing a life for each sliver you control. And it doesn't improve your threats significally, it makes them worse. It however, may be improved by your other threats but I hardly think that is anything to be excited about when it makes your others threats signifcantly worse. I'm not saying that isn't playable, because it certainly is, but it isn't anything close to overpowered, like necropotence.

xsockmonkeyx
09-18-2006, 11:31 PM
This is the best card they have previewed so far. By a lot. Kind of sad :/

The Rack
09-18-2006, 11:47 PM
I was really hoping they would bring back a really effective expensive and classic card. If only Timevault was back......

TheInfamousBearAssassin
09-18-2006, 11:48 PM
Triple Juzam Sliver also < triple Juzam Djinn.


Could be strong with Sedge/Acidic Sliver, though. Who knows.

xsockmonkeyx
09-18-2006, 11:56 PM
I take it back, this is the best card thats been previewed:

'Sudden Stifling'(real name not given) 1U
Instant
Split second (As long as this spell is on the stack, players can't play spells or activated abilities that aren't mana abilities.)
Counter target activated or triggered ability.
Activated or triggered abilities cannot be played by that card until end of turn.

If its real then its pretty kick ass.

Amoeba-
09-19-2006, 12:35 AM
This card is great against Slivers. Because slivers effect all not only the ones you control. So if your opponent has a lot of slivers this card fucks them while taking all of their abilties. Duh.

Vardaman
09-19-2006, 12:38 AM
This set looks insane.

NoGameShow
09-19-2006, 12:55 AM
I hate to rain on everyones parade but Juzam doesn't come up in the Orb of Insight. So unless this is just the name they've given it becasue of it's similarities to the djinn it doesn't exist.

MasterBlaster
09-19-2006, 01:00 AM
I really hope this card is real. It may not be a replacement for Juzam Djinn, but it might be Juzam 5 and 6 in some deck.

throst54
09-19-2006, 01:52 AM
I hate to rain on everyones parade but Juzam doesn't come up in the Orb of Insight. So unless this is just the name they've given it becasue of it's similarities to the djinn it doesn't exist.

Did you get the accent over the 'a' into the orb? I cant seem to get in it in there, though thats what why im guessing u cant get it.

Clark Kant
09-19-2006, 02:16 AM
It's a decent card. Nothing worth saying Holy Shit about though. Not when there are creatures like Masticore, Loxadan Hierach, Iwamori of Open Fist or heck, even Grinning Demon.

And IMO, the best card previewed so far is either Jaya or Serra Avenger. White is chock full of 2cc creatures. So you can bet you have some other creature to cast turn two and another creature to cast with the Serra Avenger on your 4th turn.

A 3/3 Vigilance Flyer for 2 mana is nutty good. A 5/5 for 4 with a drawback is nothing mihd blowing.

jazzykat
09-19-2006, 02:31 AM
For the freak factor alone I may crack any packs that I win of this set!

UrDraco
09-19-2006, 02:44 AM
Actually owning a Djinn I can remeber all the times I could have freaked out about a new 4cc 5/5 that could have lowered its price. This is just another Phyrexian Scuta that sucks goats if you have more than 1 in play. Time after time though the Djinn's price hasn't changed, and it wont because it is a chase card more than anything. I believethe slivers only playability will be against sliver decks.

URABAHN
09-19-2006, 09:27 AM
Doesn't this get worse when you add slivers??

No, because it's one Sliver giving an ability to the others.

All Slivers have "{2}, Sacrifice this creature: This creature deals 2 damage to target creature or player."

NOT

All Slivers have "All Slivers have '{2}, Sacrifice this creature: This creature deals 2 damage to target creature or player.'"

If the wording were more like the second, with all Slivers giving X ability to all other Slivers, then you'd do 4 points to yourself with two Juzam Sliver in play.

mr pink
09-19-2006, 12:37 PM
you won't find this card in the orb because it's name is not juzam sliver but plague sliver. It is probably real and in my humble opinion not all that good, how many topdecks actually run juzām? zero...

Why is it so expesive? Juzām is an icon of magic, everybody loves it and it was printed in 1993 in magic's first expansion.

It will be played in standard, but probably not in legacy (too slow)

Elfrago
09-19-2006, 12:43 PM
Nowadays Juzam is not THAT strong.
The decks usually now rely on spells with lower CC.
And better fatties have been printed since then.

Lego
09-19-2006, 02:17 PM
'Sudden Stifling'(real name not given) 1U
Instant
Split second (As long as this spell is on the stack, players can't play spells or activated abilities that aren't mana abilities.)
Counter target activated or triggered ability.
Activated or triggered abilities cannot be played by that card until end of turn.

I'm not totally sure, but doesn't this destroy Brain Freeze? I think it would have to be worded differently, but if that's what it actually does, it should mean that Solidarity always has to go for Stroke, right? Could be good against Tendrils as well.

jrp
09-19-2006, 02:56 PM
@LAM - Yes with "Sudden Stifling" you can counter the storm trigger, but Solidarity can just Remand the Freeze (after SS has resolved), and replay it.

.... Just figured out what you were really asking. The last part of the text reads 'activated or triggered abilities cannot be played by that card until end of turn.' To actually stop you from resolving storm triggers on later Brain Freezes it would have to be worded differently because the word that refers only to the specific instance of that spell on the stack or the specific permanent in play. For example, if your opponent has two Grim Lavamancers in play, activates one of them, and you counter the activated ability with SS, the other Lavamancer can still use its activated ability.

midnightAce
09-19-2006, 03:12 PM
However, that's hardly relevent here due to the Split Second ability. The moment this super Stifle goes on stack, the opponent is powerless to do anything. This card alone gives old control decks like Landstill the tools to combat all forms of Storm.dec. Now if only Landstill can improve its god damn Goblin matchup.

Ewokslayer
09-19-2006, 03:19 PM
However, that's hardly relevent here due to the Split Second ability. The moment this super Stifle goes on stack, the opponent is powerless to do anything. This card alone gives old control decks like Landstill the tools to combat all forms of Storm.dec. Now if only Landstill can improve its god damn Goblin matchup.

As are you. Split Second stops both players from doing anything until it resolves.
Once it does Solidarity still can control the stack to a degree that Landstill can not. Jrp is correct in that Remand on the Brain Freeze after the SS has resolved gets around it as does another Brain Freeze.
Also, I don't really understand the wording on the card

Activated or triggered abilities cannot be played by that card until end of turn.
Are Triggered Abilities "played"? Don't they just go on the stack when the conditions for their trigger are met?
Either way another Brain Freeze would still trigger as it would be specific to that card and not cards with that name.

Franz Ferdinand
09-19-2006, 03:24 PM
No, because it's one Sliver giving an ability to the others.

All Slivers have "{2}, Sacrifice this creature: This creature deals 2 damage to target creature or player."

NOT

All Slivers have "All Slivers have '{2}, Sacrifice this creature: This creature deals 2 damage to target creature or player.'"

If the wording were more like the second, with all Slivers giving X ability to all other Slivers, then you'd do 4 points to yourself with two Juzam Sliver in play.

Uh, actually, you DO deal 4 damage to yourself with two of them in play. The ability stacks.

It's still almost as good as Juzam Djinn, tho, and it is secret tech vs. a deck's terrible Slivers matchup. :(

midnightAce
09-19-2006, 03:27 PM
Oh, right. I misread the Split Second ability,


Split second (As long as this spell is on the stack, players can't play spells or activated abilities that aren't mana abilities.)

For some odd reason, I read it as "when this spell is on the stack, other players can no longer play spells or activated abilities." Yea, figures, go wishful thinking.

Ewokslayer
09-19-2006, 03:40 PM
Oh, right. I misread the Split Second ability,

For some odd reason, I read it as "when this spell is on the stack, players can no longer play spells or activated abilities." Yea, figures, go wishful thinking.


You mean you thought it said "when this spell is on the stack, otherplayers can no longer play spells or activated abilities." , correct?
Otherwise you just paraphrased the Split Second ability.

If it was like what you said, it would be Solidarity's best friend in the fight against control decks. Play irrelevant Split Second card, with that on the stack combo out.

midnightAce
09-19-2006, 03:48 PM
Yea, typo on the previous post. Fixed.

On to the actual topic of the Sliver, assume it's printed as presented right now, exactly how much does Sui-black or Pox varients benefit from this guy? Pox always seemed light on finishers, (My pov for being on the recieving end.) now nobody needs to fork over their entire weekend shift's earnings to get the original fatty, this one can do just as well. Well, not that better in multiple.

dahcmai
09-19-2006, 04:08 PM
Yes with "Sudden Stifling" you can counter the storm trigger, but Solidarity can just Remand the Freeze (after SS has resolved), and replay it.

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't you have to pass priority to the person getting brain freezed before he has a chance to super-stife it therefore giving up your chance to remand the brain freeze?
I might be wrong on that but I just remembered something about it because I play with Balance a lot.

Ewokslayer
09-19-2006, 04:11 PM
Ok, correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't you have to pass priority to the person getting brain freezed before he has a chance to super-stife it therefore giving up your chance to remand the brain freeze?
I might be wrong on that but I just remembered something about it because I play with Balance a lot.

After you play Brain Freeze its triggered ability goes on the stack, you pass priority to your opponent, they have to SS it or the ability resolves and all the copies go on the stack.
Once they play SS you can't respond so the triggered ability is countered. You both then have to pass priority again before the original Brain Freeze resolves because a spell (SS) has resolved.

Complete_Jank
09-19-2006, 04:18 PM
Ok, sorry if this surves no purpose, but I didn't feel like reading the entire article, only the first page.

If this is an actual card it won't matter or bring down the price of Juzam.

Grinning Demon is better than Juzam, and this sliver would be better because of the fact it is a sliver. (Sliver effects)

Juzam is not a $100 card because of it's play value.

URABAHN
09-19-2006, 06:52 PM
Uh, actually, you DO deal 4 damage to yourself with two of them in play. The ability stacks.

It's still almost as good as Juzam Djinn, tho, and it is secret tech vs. a deck's terrible Slivers matchup. :(

Ah, right, I wasn't thinking. Was I right about having 1 Juzam Sliver and 4 random slivers in play, though? Each non-Juzam sliver does not add the "1 point during your upkeep" to each other sliver, right?

nupert
09-19-2006, 07:15 PM
This card is designed as a weapon against slivers, which could become a famous type 2 deck. He benefits from the Slivers your opponent plays, and I assume he will be the fattest sliver out there. He's already synergetic with Sedge Sliver, he can regenerate easily. So he either kills your opponents slivers or stops your opponent from attacking, which will cause his death sooner or later. If your opponent doesn't play Slivers, he is just a Juz&#225;m Djinn.

For legacy, he is unimportant, since Slivers are no DTB right now and I don't believe this will change (the new counter sliver deck is interesting, though) and it's a 4cc creature without evasion which is just incredibly bad. Don't ever play him in a sliver deck. You need a bunch of slivers to make slivers a good deck and the more you get, the more damage you take and the more unimportant this sliver becomes. A bunch of slivers is strong anyway. You just become vulnerable to Moat and Worship.

Aggro_zombies
09-20-2006, 12:52 AM
Yea, typo on the previous post. Fixed.

On to the actual topic of the Sliver, assume it's printed as presented right now, exactly how much does Sui-black or Pox varients benefit from this guy? Pox always seemed light on finishers, (My pov for being on the recieving end.) now nobody needs to fork over their entire weekend shift's earnings to get the original fatty, this one can do just as well. Well, not that better in multiple.
This card is horrible in Pox because you can't ritual it out on turn one and it compounds the life loss from your Poxes. Phyrexian Totem is better - it can come down turn one with a ritual, it's mana accel, it doesn't mess with Nether Spirit, and it has the same sized body.

Lego
09-20-2006, 01:14 AM
Are Triggered Abilities "played"? Don't they just go on the stack when the conditions for their trigger are met?
Either way another Brain Freeze would still trigger as it would be specific to that card and not cards with that name.

What I was trying to get at in my post is that I don't think this is the wording of the card at all. It's just someone's attempt at trying to describe what they think the card does. Maybe it's based on reliable information, and maybe not, but I think the wording is contrived nonetheless.

Reverend Damaged
09-20-2006, 08:54 AM
Why so you can take extra damage each turn?

But that really sucks for people if their Dijnns drop in price because of this.

I hope Juzam drops in price. Then the guy who went through the trouble of stealing mine won't have free $100 cards of mine anymore. They'll be $50 instead :P

Cavius The Great
09-20-2006, 09:53 AM
Ok, sorry if this surves no purpose, but I didn't feel like reading the entire article, only the first page.

If this is an actual card it won't matter or bring down the price of Juzam.

Grinning Demon is better than Juzam, and this sliver would be better because of the fact it is a sliver. (Sliver effects)

Juzam is not a $100 card because of it's play value.

Grinning Demon is horrible, Juzam Djinn is much better. The extra +1/+1 on the Grinning Demon is irrelevent becuase it's still a 4 turn clock just like Juzam. And juzam deals a heck of alot less damage to you.

fearphage
09-20-2006, 11:56 AM
That means they would have to draw/wish for a different brain freeze since that one was 'banned' from being played for the turn, correct? That could be hurtful to Solidarity indeed.

Obfuscate Freely
09-20-2006, 12:02 PM
That means they would have to get/draw/wish for a different brain freeze since that one was 'banned' from being played for the turn, correct? That could be hurtful to Solidarity indeed.
Wrong. If the Solidarity player Remands the Brain Freeze and plays it again, the game sees it as an entirely new card, so the storm trigger will be free to resolve.

Trickbind is almost strictly worse than Stifle against Solidarity, since it costs twice as much.

Ewokslayer
09-20-2006, 12:03 PM
That means they would have to get/draw/wish for a different brain freeze since that one was 'banned' from being played for the turn, correct? That could be hurtful to Solidarity indeed.

The game wouldn't be able to track that it was the same Brain Freeze that was SS and remanded that you played again.

How could you enforce that? Force a judge to tell the opponent what is in the Solidarity player's hand? What if they brainstormed after the Remand? Would the Solidarity player have to show the top of their Library too?

tivadar
09-20-2006, 12:17 PM
What I was trying to get at in my post is that I don't think this is the wording of the card at all. It's just someone's attempt at trying to describe what they think the card does. Maybe it's based on reliable information, and maybe not, but I think the wording is contrived nonetheless.

I agree with Lego here. I was thinking the same thing about the card as well. Assuming it's real, the wording clearly has to be different, because triggered abilities are not in fact played.

What it boils down to is that we just don't know yet. This could nail solidarity (by using the wording "triggered abilities of cards with the same name", though that doesn't seem likely), but probably won't do much of anything.

greyareabeyond
09-20-2006, 04:41 PM
I don't think the new stifle is supposed to be better against storm or activated abilities that require a sacrifice or tap (Deed, Welder, etc.). I think it's meant to be an improved stifle against permanents that can activate an ability multiple times. Think Survival, Masticore, and RAV block guildmages.

Complete_Jank
09-20-2006, 05:10 PM
Grinning Demon is horrible, Juzam Djinn is much better. The extra +1/+1 on the Grinning Demon is irrelevent becuase it's still a 4 turn clock just like Juzam. And juzam deals a heck of alot less damage to you.

Grinning Demon is better because it can come out faster as you can Dark Ritual it out turn one as a morph. You also play it turn 3 as a morph and swing turn 4 and then morph it and get around losing 2 life during your up-keep.

Grinning Demon will remain better than Juzam, because it can swing a turn earlier, and even if you look at a same time hard cast. G. Demon will do 24 DMG which is greater than Juzam's 20 DMG in four turns. 4 Points of life gain allowed, and they still die.

Grinning Demon is better as play value, but still not really playable, just like Juzam. However, Juzam is and always will be one of the best chase cards.

Cavius The Great
09-21-2006, 10:28 AM
Grinning Demon is better because it can come out faster as you can Dark Ritual it out turn one as a morph. You also play it turn 3 as a morph and swing turn 4 and then morph it and get around losing 2 life during your up-keep.

Grinning Demon will remain better than Juzam, because it can swing a turn earlier, and even if you look at a same time hard cast. G. Demon will do 24 DMG which is greater than Juzam's 20 DMG in four turns. 4 Points of life gain allowed, and they still die.

Grinning Demon is better as play value, but still not really playable, just like Juzam. However, Juzam is and always will be one of the best chase cards.

You have some valid points. Grinning Demon does have some plus sides. Like being able to kill your opponent in 3 turns if he/she used fetchlands/ancient tombs and wasn't able to deal with him. You got to remember that Grinning Demon has a morph cost of 2BB, so morphing it up on the second turn without any mana acceleration is highly unlikely. But the main reason I like Juzam Djinn better, is that you can have two in play and get dealt the same amount of damage/life loss as one Grinning Demon. Grinning Demons in multiples is just scary and can help your opponent catch up in the damage race if he's playing aggro. Both cards are good, but I really think that fact pushes Juzam Djinn over the edge. And who the hell wants to keep morphing and unmorphing Grinning Demon every turn?? There's alot better things you could be spending your mana on, like maybe spells. :tongue:

Ewokslayer
09-21-2006, 12:04 PM
I don't think the new stifle is supposed to be better against storm or activated abilities that require a sacrifice or tap (Deed, Welder, etc.). I think it's meant to be an improved stifle against permanents that can activate an ability multiple times. Think Survival, Masticore, and RAV block guildmages.

I agree.
It is like Stifle and Interdict had wild passionate sex and popped this out.
I guess card drawing isn't hereditary.

jazzykat
09-21-2006, 12:46 PM
With Juzam vs. Grinning Demon, I really feel that the Demon is better due to the mathematics of 20 life if you are the beatdown deck. If you have to sit back and play defense grinning demon sucks hardcore because you are letting your beatstick sit around going down in life twice as fast, which you can hardly afford to do.

Complete_Jank
09-21-2006, 04:36 PM
First off,
If you have Grinning Demon on the table and can't win before you die to it, then you deserve to die.

Secondly I can't believe I am even discussing this, as neither of the two cards are very playable anyways, even though G. Dog is slightly better.

SuckerPunch
09-21-2006, 10:37 PM
Masticore is still superior to both of them.

Masticore's removal actually can swing you from a losing position to a winning one.

It's massive board control. Cursed Scroll wrapped into a 4/4 regenerator.

Both Juzam and Demon only help Golbins and 9 land stompy kill you that much faster.

Lastly, of all the previewed cards, this is the last one that warrants a holy shit.

Cavius The Great
09-23-2006, 04:27 PM
First off,
If you have Grinning Demon on the table and can't win before you die to it, then you deserve to die.

Secondly I can't believe I am even discussing this, as neither of the two cards are very playable anyways, even though G. Dog is slightly better.

Juzam Djinn can happily sit down and block while Grinning Demon you have to be constantly attacking before it kills you. Do the math loser, it takes 20 turns for a Juzam Djinn to kill you, it takes Grinning Demon a mere 10, and that doesn't include all the damage you will be taking in the meantime from other sources. That makes Grinning Demon significantly inferior.

Poron
09-23-2006, 05:02 PM
It's even a good card for the Slivers matchup...

Poron
09-23-2006, 07:22 PM
http://magiccards.info/query/3032000/13/

that card doesn't exist -____- this is the complete list of Time Spiral

Ewokslayer
09-23-2006, 07:28 PM
http://magiccards.info/query/3032000/13/

that card doesn't exist -____- this is the complete list of Time Spiral

The name of the card is Plague Sliver (http://magiccards.info/query/3032000/18/)
Its picture is pretty kick ass. And the flavor text doesn't suck either.

Poron
09-23-2006, 07:33 PM
yes sorry I just found it now -__-

http://magiccards.info/ts/en/124/

anyway, this set is imba. Teferi O_O is incredible. http://magiccards.info/ts/en/83/

Warmonger
09-24-2006, 01:11 AM
I see you all have SERIOUS problems with all those news, so just add MTG Salvation to your bookmarks. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/forumdisplay.php?f=27

Complete_Jank
09-25-2006, 02:53 AM
Juzam Djinn can happily sit down and block while Grinning Demon you have to be constantly attacking before it kills you. Do the math loser, it takes 20 turns for a Juzam Djinn to kill you, it takes Grinning Demon a mere 10, and that doesn't include all the damage you will be taking in the meantime from other sources. That makes Grinning Demon significantly inferior.


Hmm, first off the fact that you have to revert to calling me names states that you have not much to back up your arguement.

Stop talking about how long something takes to kill you. The game of magic isn't about killing yourself, but how fast you can kill your opponent.

I think a Moderator should give a close looking into Cavius's other posts and ban his flaming ass.


Secondly, Grinning Demon only really needs to hit 3 times to kill. 18 damage is less than 20, however with the fact that everyone runs saclands, means that the average damage done by a player to himself/herself is about 2.

If you ran Juzan he would hit for 15 on its 3rd hit, which not many decks do 5 damage to themselves.

Grinning Demon deals 24 on its 4th hit which is enough to make up for a Lightning Helix or some other life gain. Juzam would be a turn behind if that happened.

10 Turns with a Grinning Demon on the table is still enough to win the game, you should not be blocking with it, because a deck running him, which no deck should run either of these guys, should be designed to clear the way.

Lastly, once again the fact that Grinning Demon can stay down as a 2/2 Morph means he is superior.