Flashback and Cards Without Mana Costs

[JeremM]

If I have some way to give a sorcery flashback (Dralnu or Recoup), and have Ancestral Vision in my graveyard, could I replay it for zero since it has no mana cost? Or would its flashback cost be unplayable due to a lack of mana cost?

[quicksilver]

I'm pretty sure that you cannot do this, but I am not 100% positive.

[parallax]

I'm pretty sure that you cannot do this, but I am not 100% positive.

I agree with you.

A Recouped Ancestral Vision would have a nonexistant flashback cost, and therefore cannot be flashed back.

[Ewokslayer]

I wonder if Trinisphere changes that at all?
From the rules primer (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/rules/tsp)

A card with no mana cost can't be normally played as a spell, because it's impossible to pay a nonexistent cost in step 401.9h. (Note that this is different than a spell that costs 0, which is a cost that can be paid.) If there are any additional costs associated with playing a spell, a card with no mana cost still can't be played this way: { } + {1} is an impossible operation to calculate.
However, Trinisphere doesn't work like other additional costs. It is always the last applied and just makes sure you pay at least three. I suppose determining if a non-existent cost was less than three might also be an impossible operation to calculate, but it would be neat if it wasn't.

[on1y0ne]

I wonder if Trinisphere changes that at all?
From the rules primer (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/rules/tsp)

However, Trinisphere doesn't work like other additional costs. It is always the last applied and just makes sure you pay at least three. I suppose determining if a non-existent cost was less than three might also be an impossible operation to calculate, but it would be neat if it wasn't.

I would assume that Trinisphere still would not allow you to play a spell with no mana cost. You cannot add anything to { } and since the spell does not have a cost, 3Sphere cannot make it cost more. It would be like dividing by zero. Yes, Chuck Norris can do it, but we mortals are far inferior to him, so we cannot do it.

[iOWN]

Recoup's text:

Target sorcery card in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn. If you play that card this turn, its flashback cost becomes equal to its mana cost as you play it. (Mana cost includes color.)

I assumed that you could not play it originally (because the card cannot be played regardless), but Flashback's text says 'You may play this card from your graveyard for it's flashback cost' and card text overrides. I'm not completely sure either way.

Trinisphere would not change anything because 'costs _ to play' requires the card to be able to be played, so if Recoup doesn't work then this wouldn't.

[DeathwingZERO]

If you couldn't play it as a spell in the first place, you can't play it as a flashback spell either. Giving a card flashback does not give it a 0 casting cost, which is the minimum requirement to cast the spell.

Such spells as Evermind and the new Suspend cards without a casting cost already say that in their text. If it can't be played on it's own, Flashback wouldn't matter. It's not overriding it's original casting cost.

[Lego]

Such spells as Evermind and the new Suspend cards without a casting cost already say that in their text. If it can't be played on it's own, Flashback wouldn't matter. It's not overriding it's original casting cost.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/362#nomanacost

It seems that Evermind no longer says that. You still can't flash them back, as they have no mana cost, but it looks like Ancestral on a Stick should work fine.

[Eldariel]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/362#nomanacost

It seems that Evermind no longer says that. You still can't flash them back, as they have no mana cost, but it looks like Ancestral on a Stick should work fine.

Except, it's still a Sorcery.

[DeathwingZERO]

Being able to play Suspend spells via Mind's Desire........seems good.

[Togit460]

do you have to wait for the suspend part if they are played from places other than your hand (mind's desire)?

[bigbear102]

No, you don't have to wait. Mind's Desire is just friggin' nuts with suspend cards.

[DeathwingZERO]

So an Extended Desire's deck now has the ability to hit multiple Mind's Desire, multiple Lotus Blooms, multiple Ancestrals, and multiple Twisters.

Seems pretty savage.

[noobslayer]

I think I just came all over myself.

[dahcmai]

Go go Gadget Temporal Aperature

[Eldariel]

No, you don't have to wait. Mind's Desire is just friggin' nuts.

Fixed.

[parallax]

Unless you're planning on suspending the cards sometimes, they are not any better than, say, Temporal Cascade, in Mind's Desire. That makes Lotus Bloom good, Ancestral Visions a possibility (if you can wait until turn five to go off) and Wheel of Fate pretty shitty.