Have you seen the Purple Cards?

[Finn]

Purple symbol cards are like Chronicles part 2. There are going to be 121 of them in Time Spiral, and are different from the regular set. I'm not making this up.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1298051&postcount=2

With cards like Psionic Blast, Uthden Troll, Flying Men, Dandan, Tormod's Crypt, Kobold Taskmaster, etc. all coming back, it certainly seems like power level, out-of-color abilities, and dead mechanics are all open game for reprint.

Taken in conjunction with cards like Tivadar of Thorn (the pro red dude that kills a Goblin when he enters play) and all the throwback cards in the set, I would estimate that Wizards is putting some effort into sparking interest in older sets and by extension eternal formats.

What does all this mean for Legacy?

[Ewokslayer]

I would be a lot more inclined to believe Wizards was trying to support Legacy via the reprints if most of those cards on the spoiler list didn't suck or were actually hard to find.
Reprinting Tormod's Crypt doesn't promote Legacy, it makes sure Flashback and Dredge don't make bastard children that break Standard/Extended.

[MasterBlaster]

Psionic Blast and Flying Men in Standard. That just seems weird. I really don't know what else to say about it.

[Ewokslayer]

Psionic Blast and Flying Men in Standard. That just seems weird. I really don't know what else to say about it.
How about:
OMG it is the Blue Char and the Blue Suntail Hawk !

Are any of the cards getting new pictures because that would be nice.

Maybe my Call of the Herds will be worth something again.

[mikekelley]

It will only be cool if they don't change Psionic Blasts' text.

The art can go as far as I'm concerned though.

[SillyMetalGAT]

Im sure they wont be playable in Standard, like the cards they reprinted in Coldsnap from Ice Age.

[TheAardvark]

Im sure they wont be playable in Standard, like the cards they reprinted in Coldsnap from Ice Age.

Actually, according to France's DCI Manager, they are legal in every format Time Spiral (the set) is legal in. So, yeah, they'll be Standard/Extended legal. And TS Limited. Because, as I am sure you all agree, Akroma in Limited once was not enough.

Here is the exact message from Damien Guillemard (DCI France Manager):

***"Timeshifted" Cards***

The Time Spiral set contains a subset of 121 cards known as "timeshifted" cards. There's one timeshifted card in each Time Spiral booster pack, and there are three in each Time Spiral tournament pack. Some "timeshifted" cards appear in each Time Spiral theme deck as well.

Each timeshifted card is a reprint of a _Magic_™ card from a set released prior to the _Mirrodin_® set. It appears in a pre-_Eighth Edition_ card frame and has a purple expansion symbol. Each of the cards in this subset is equally rare, regardless of their rarities when they were originally printed.

For game play purposes, timeshifted cards are considered part of the Time Spiral set. They are legal in all formats that Time Spiral is legal in.

[Finn]

...So, yeah, they'll be Standard/Extended legal. And TS Limited. Because, as I am sure you all agree, Akroma in Limited once was not enough...


I spit up my root beer when I read that line. Excellent humor.

[Complete_Jank]

Actually, according to France's DCI Manager, they are legal in every format Time Spiral (the set) is legal in. So, yeah, they'll be Standard/Extended legal. And TS Limited. Because, as I am sure you all agree, Akroma in Limited once was not enough.

First off, you are listening to someone from France, what is wrong with you.

Bah, Limited always comes down to who oppened the best card usually.


As for the Purple cards, are they listed seperately or part of the set list. Do they also come with the chance of foil? For the love of God if there are purple Dragons, I'm going to be pissed.:mad:

[Eldariel]

They can be foils, and at least Nicol Bolas is gonna get reprinted so there'll be a purple dragon. I'm almost positive, we'll see Lord of Atlantis as a Merfolk Lord among those, and good that way, perhaps Merfolk could finally be a viable tribe in this format with the Howler and Hunter-mechanics enabled.

[jazzykat]

Is this from a reliable source? I have 4 Unlimited psi blasts, should I assume their value is going to tank?

[Ewokslayer]

Is this from a reliable source? I have 4 Unlimited psi blasts, should I assume their value is going to tank?

I would think their value would increase as a result of them actually being legal in all formats.

[MasterBlaster]

@Jazzykat- I think the price will actually rise because they will now be Standard legal, but there will still be a low supply of them. Currently Psionic Blasts are currently only in A/B/U, and upon Timespirals release you can find a Psionic Blast in 1 out of every 121 booster packs. Which I believe will still make it hard to find.

Also I'm sure it will be used in every T2/extended blue deck and some Standard players might try to pimp out their decks by getting the old Psi-Blasts.

[jazzykat]

So, if I am to understand correctly there would be a psi blast in 1 of every 121 packs? EDIT: I believe the masterblaster answered this while I was typing.

Hmm...if people wanted to use a blue char in standard and extened, then I could see its value being a bit more since it would be like an ultra rare that everyone would like to play with.

I guess that should be cool with me.

[xsockmonkeyx]

@Jazzykat- I think the price will actually rise because they will now be Standard legal, but there will still be a low supply of them. Currently Psionic Blasts are currently only in A/B/U, and upon Timespirals release you can find a Psionic Blast in 1 out of every 121 booster packs. Which I believe will still make it hard to find.


So you could rip open a pack and discover that your rare is a Dan-Dan? Or will the card simply replace the a slot with the same rarity in the pack?

Dan-Dan rare would be spectacular:laugh:

[Ewokslayer]

So you could rip open a pack and discover that your rare is a Dan-Dan? Or will the card simply replace the a slot with the same rarity in the pack?

Dan-Dan rare would be spectacular:laugh:

I believe the Purple cards are suppose to replace a common.

[AngryTroll]

They replace a common. So in theory, this weekend at the Prerelease, your booster might include Akroma and Magus of the Disk. Hmm....strong.

[edgewalker]

Awsome, my unlimited and Psiblasts are worth something again. Hopefully my flying men will be too.

[Brushwagg]

Finally, Wizards made a some what good move, on reprints. Although nothing on the list, save for Psy Blast is hard to find (Although it's not a complete list). But they also made them rare enough to help the originals keep their price(referring to Blast).

[Complete_Jank]

Can the Purple Cards be Foil?

[Whit3 Ghost]

Finally, Wizards made a some what good move, on reprints. Although nothing on the list, save for Psy Blast is hard to find (Although it's not a complete list). But they also made them rare enough to help the originals keep their price(referring to Blast).
Flying Men are sort of annoying to find. They were about $5 each most places.

Definately a good move by Wizards.

[jazzykat]

Awsome, my unlimited and Psiblasts are worth something again. Hopefully my flying men will be too.

Dude, I don't know what you be talking about :B Psi Blast is always been and always will be cool. Nothing like giving someone a headache FTW!

[Bryant Cook]

Finally, Wizards made a some what good move, on reprints. Although nothing on the list, save for Psy Blast is hard to find (Although it's not a complete list). But they also made them rare enough to help the originals keep their price(referring to Blast).

Print money cards... I've always wanted a set of Mana Drains, or Bazaar.

[Moby Dick]

Do you all know what this means? We get foil
Flying Men
Psionic Blast
Tormod's Crypt
The Rack
Gemstone Mine (that doesn't cost hundreds)
Unstable Mutation

and they're all T2 leagal (don't care)

[MasterBlaster]

Do you all know what this means? We get foil

Gemstone Mine (that doesn't cost hundreds)



Have you thought about how rare the TS Foil Gemstome Mines will be? They still might cost hundreds.

We'll also be getting foil Auratogs, Wall of Roots, and Spitting Slugs(YAY)!

[Firebrothers]

yeah but what are the chances af getting one of these foil cards, 1 in 122 for a non foil.... how many times does a foil come up normally?

[MasterBlaster]

I just checked MTGSalvation. Meddling Mage is one of the purple bonus cards. I should e-bay myself a playset of those pronto before the price jumps.

While I'm at it I think I should start hording Disenchants.

[mikekelley]

yeah but what are the chances af getting one of these foil cards, 1 in 122 for a non foil.... how many times does a foil come up normally?

1:70 for a normal foil.

[JeremM]

Foil Crypts are the sex. I'm going to the prerelease; hopefully I'll be able to snag a few from some kids.

The foil Blasts put me in a dilemma, though. I was never a huge fan of foils in the old cardface, so I'll stick with my archaic wording and giant typeface. Guess I'll find out next month whether buying a set of Beta NM Blasts for $100 was awesome or awful luck.

Oh, and foil Squires are THE PWN, as are foil Uncle Istvans. Uncle Istvan's probably my favorite card in the entire game (hell, I named my email address after the card), and I want a foil playset (or ten) RIGHT NOW.

[MasterBlaster]

I'm starting to think that these purple cards are a way to punish Standard players with limited collections. Does your average T2 player sell their cards once they rotate to reinvest in newer sets?

[jazzykat]

I just checked MTGSalvation. Meddling Mage is one of the purple bonus cards. I should e-bay myself a playset of those pronto before the price jumps.

While I'm at it I think I should start hording Disenchants.

Is this confirmed or a rumor?

[JeremM]

I'm starting to think that these purple cards are a way to punish Standard players with limited collections.

Or a way to pad the wallets of Legacy/Vintage players, who already have all the decent cards. :wink:

To paraphrase Dune: "He who controls the Psionic Blasts and Akromas, controls the prerelease."

[Complete_Jank]

Or a way to pad the wallets of Legacy/Vintage players, who already have all the decent cards. :wink:

To paraphrase Dune: "He who controls the Psionic Blasts and Akromas, controls the prerelease."

Prices have already dropped from their highs, I sold most of my stuff about a year ago.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

These cards being legal in Extended would throw away over six years of R&D trying to fix the color wheel to be meaningful in Constructed play. I'm going to say it; fuck no, they're not going to be Standard or Extended legal. Urzatron doesn't need 8 Chars. They'll be playable in Limited, sure.

[atv]

These purple reprints being Legal in whatever format TS is legal in has been confirmed.

[Lego]

If these are a 1:121 shot, and normal foils are a 1:70 shot, and these maintain those foil percentages, we're looking a foil Psionic Blast about once every 240 boxes. How many boxes do they ship?

[frogboy]

Tron doesn't play four Chars. Why would it play eight?

[cathl]

If these are a 1:121 shot, and normal foils are a 1:70 shot, and these maintain those foil percentages, we're looking a foil Psionic Blast about once every 240 boxes. How many boxes do they ship?
Are these odds per pack or per card? When I worked it out assuming that it was per card, my math tells me that it should be roughly 1 in 20 boxes.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Tron doesn't play four Chars. Why would it play eight?

Because it can play eight fucking Chars. Some deck's going to abuse the fuck out of that. Not to mention Crypt in Extended. This would blow a good six or seven years' worth of work they've put into making the color wheel matter in the newer formats right the fuck out of the water. Bad Moon, Unstable Mutation, Hail Storm? Disenchant I'd even allow for them changing their mind on, but Icatian Javelineers? They're going to keep the Black Fog around in Extended for years after the Green rotates out?

[overlord95]

So yea, I just saw that wizards is bringing back Eron, the Relentless. :smile:

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Yeah. That part was pretty badass.

[SillyMetalGAT]

Because it can play eight fucking Chars. Some deck's going to abuse the fuck out of that. Not to mention Crypt in Extended. This would blow a good six or seven years' worth of work they've put into making the color wheel matter in the newer formats right the fuck out of the water. Bad Moon, Unstable Mutation, Hail Storm? Disenchant I'd even allow for them changing their mind on, but Icatian Javelineers? They're going to keep the Black Fog around in Extended for years after the Green rotates out?

This is completely true. If these really are legal in all formats, Extended just got fucked over hardcore. The other thing is that im not sure these will be foiled... did they foil the reprints in Coldsnap? I haven't seen any yet, but I could be completely wrong and I probably am.

[on1y0ne]

This is completely true. If these really are legal in all formats, Extended just got fucked over hardcore. The other thing is that im not sure these will be foiled... did they foil the reprints in Coldsnap? I haven't seen any yet, but I could be completely wrong and I probably am.

The Coldsnap reprints were only in a pre-con, not in packs, so they would not have been foil. Since the TS reprints are in packs, their could be a possibility of them being foil. They would be uber sexy...

[Alfred]

The irony of Jack arguing that 8 Chars will ruin Standard, while concurrently arguing that unbanning Oath of Druids in Legacy would be just fine is not lost on me.

[troopatroop]

Why is it that people hate on Jack for being so outspoken? Why take something like that from another thread and bring it here where it's hardly relevant? I think it's rather inflammatory.

[AngryTroll]

Foil Crypts, or PsiBlasts, whatever, are going to be super expensive, unless all the purple cards are foil. Even then, they will be really expensive. Cool, but assembling a playset will be rediculous.

[Alfred]

Why is it that people hate on Jack for being so outspoken? Why take something like that from another thread and bring it here where it's hardly relevant? I think it's rather inflammatory.

I don't hate Jack at all, I actually enjoy what he has to say. I do occasionally disagree with people however.

[Bane of the Living]

So is anyone here excited to play Mystic Enforcer w/ Dredge in standard?

[quicksilver]

So is anyone here excited to play Mystic Enforcer w/ Dredge in standard?

No

who plays standard?

I can always play mystic enforcer with dredge in legacy, why would I downgrade to a strictly worse format?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The irony of Jack arguing that 8 Chars will ruin Standard, while concurrently arguing that unbanning Oath of Druids in Legacy would be just fine is not lost on me.

Legacy is not a format where the deck to beat routinely hardcasts Angel of Despair.

[Alfred]

Legacy is not a format where the deck to beat routinely hardcasts Angel of Despair.

I agree with this statement, Legacy IS a different format than Standard.

[TheAardvark]

Still trying to figure out the rarity on foil purple cards...haven't seen any solid info on that yet. Go go go foils found in 1:200 packs or something ridiculous.

Anyway, one of the purple cards that I find to be simultaneously interesting and not worth commenting on is Swamp Mosquito. For the 92 people out there who care, poison is back. Where the Hell did I put my playset of Leeches?

Side note: is it just me, or is it nonsensical to reprint Gaea's Blessing at the same time as Withered Wretch and Tormod's Crypt? I've been bitching since yesterday morning about the state of Extended after these cards being printed and legal, because, as Jack mentioned earlier, Crypt destroys several years' worth of work in establishing the standards of what cards/colors can/cannot do. Giving every deck a 0 cost answer to mutliple decks in the format is really, really unintuitive. They bitch about how "utility" artifacts can't be undercosted, and then Crypt resurfaces. Whatever.

For the record, they don't give 2 shits about the "color wheel" they've been force-feeding for the past 6 years when they reprint the most out of flavor card ever made. Psionic Blast should have been red from the start, and it took them 12 years to correct that...a year later, they simply act like nothing ever happened and everything is fine.

Go team.

[mikekelley]

Who cares about the color wheel? Seriously.

Wah wah wah.

Wizards is like George Lucas. They try to fix things and just fuck them up worse.

[MasterBlaster]

Who cares about the color wheel? Seriously.


This game would be alot funner if people ignored the color wheel more often. That goes both for WOTC and players that complain whenever something crosses the line.

[swishandamiss]

they just ruined extended with crypt and they ruined dredges chance in standard if it ever had one, no real effect on legacy with reprints though ...since they are reprints

[TheAardvark]

Who cares about the color wheel? Seriously.

Wah wah wah.

Wizards is like George Lucas. They try to fix things and just fuck them up worse.

I don't so much care for the color wheel, exactly; my annoyance is with MaRo's constant harping on the color wheel, even during his TS previews, and then they blatantly ignore it. Why force-feed something when you're going to throw it out, however temporarily, and have the revisionist attitude of "one of the great things about Magic is being able to break the rules". Sure, breaking some rules and pushing boundaries from time to time keeps things fresh, but this smacks of hypocrisy for the sake of hypocrisy.

Maybe I am overdoing it, but I just don't like the idea.

That is all.

[dwarven_anarchist]

I get what they're doing in reverting to the old color wheel for this set, especially since it is themed in the past. I'm looking forward to it.

The real question is this: I have $20. A Matter of Life and Death OR Psionic Blast?

[xsockmonkeyx]

I don't so much care for the color wheel, exactly; my annoyance is with MaRo's constant harping on the color wheel, even during his TS previews, and then they blatantly ignore it. Why force-feed something when you're going to throw it out, however temporarily, and have the revisionist attitude of "one of the great things about Magic is being able to break the rules". Sure, breaking some rules and pushing boundaries from time to time keeps things fresh, but this smacks of hypocrisy for the sake of hypocrisy.

Maybe I am overdoing it, but I just don't like the idea.

That is all.

I agree too somewhat. The wheel is arbitrary and full of exceptions so why bother having too much ideal in that regard? As long as they dont print really strong off color cards( Ex: black disenchant) then there really isnt much of an issue IMO.


OK, heres a question: Will the purple cards have variable rarity, or are you just as likely to pull an Akroma as you are a Fire Whip?

[AnwarA101]

The real question is this: I have $20. A Matter of Life and Death OR Psionic Blast?

Is this a reference to the new Iron Maiden album? If so, buy A Matter of Life and Death you won't regret it.

[TheAardvark]

OK, heres a question: Will the purple cards have variable rarity, or are you just as likely to pull an Akroma as you are a Fire Whip?

You are just as likely to pull an Ovinomancer as a Psionic Blast. There is one purple card in every pack, so no variable rarity.

[Brushwagg]

I think alot of people missed one thing though. Wizards is a business. They don't care if they mess with the color whell. The bottom line is the only thing they really care about is the money.

So they reprint a few hard to find cards, knowing full well people are going to spend some big money trying to find them. So I would probably guess that they will foil them too. Since foil is the crack and most(not all but most) are the junkies.

[TheAardvark]

I think alot of people missed one thing though. Wizards is a business. They don't care if they mess with the color whell. The bottom line is the only thing they really care about is the money.

So they reprint a few hard to find cards, knowing full well people are going to spend some big money trying to find them. So I would probably guess that they will foil them too. Since foil is the crack and most(not all but most) are the junkies.

QFT.

They certainly have accomplished part of their goal: this set has garnered more discussion than any other contemporary set, and that means more people interested in going to a prerelease, generating more buzz, etc.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The color wheel is a very good thing for the health and identity of the game, which is ultimately a very good thing for the longevity of the game. I really can't think of a rational explanation for such a move aside from a desire to end the Magic game line and squeeze every last ounce of cash possible from it before the end. But as Magic has been doing very well the past few years, this seems irrational, and it just seems like a stupid mistake that will ultimately cause more people to quit the game.


Also, is there a rational explanation why a black Disenchant would be worse than a blue Char? I know Legacy already has one and not the other, but I think the former would actually be more balanced than the latter in Standard and Extended. It's not like there's a reason to run 8 Naturalizes in a deck like there is 8 highly efficent burn/removal spells.

[Alfred]

The color wheel is a very good thing for the health and identity of the game, which is ultimately a very good thing for the longevity of the game. I really can't think of a rational explanation for such a move aside from a desire to end the Magic game line and squeeze every last ounce of cash possible from it before the end. But as Magic has been doing very well the past few years, this seems irrational, and it just seems like a stupid mistake that will ultimately cause more people to quit the game.


If you look at a website where people haven't played magic for a while, like Misetings, the reprints, old mechanics and the overall high powerlevel are bringing people back to the game. I sort of agree with you about twisting the color wheel, but I believe fun > consistancy, and where the two butt heads I think most people will always take fun over consistancy, so I'm not overly worried about people leaving the game.

It's a bit odd that they have been blathering on and on about the color wheel for all these years only to change it so fundimentally, but meh, if it works I'm not going to shit a brick about it.

I think this set, and the reprint idea will be a windfall for Wizards, as it will probably attract older players back to the game, and should be extremely fun for those people who haven't experienced all the old mechanics before.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Yeah, the thing is, a lot of people are saying, "This is bringing a lot of people back to Magic!" when that actually mainly means, "A lot of people who paid 60$ for their playsets of Call of the Herd are going to play T2 again since they already have the cards". It's blazingly clear that it's more efficent to buy the originals of the reprints, or, better yet, already own them, than to try and find a playset of the new "secret rares" out of boxes of Time Spiral. So that actually doesn't help Wizards much from a financial stand point. Meanwhile, how many do you think will actually be drawn to Magic when Standard decks cost 400$ to build if they don't already own the cards?

And, well... just to repeat myself from MTGS


"You don't think people were happy and estatic when Urza's came out? People love overpowered cards when they first get printed. Hell, people were jumping all over Skullclamp for their elf/cleric/bird decks in Standard when it came out. It's a pretty simple phenomena. Most players are pretty bad, so they get used over time to losing pretty regularly. Even if they're decent, they still lose a lot playing decks that, due to the nature of whichever format or community they play in, all tend to have the same power rough power level. What happens when they discover a new set of cards at a much higher power level? Pure euphoria, of course. Here are the cards to make their decks finally able to trash the competition! No more fuss! No more muss! Win easy! Win big! Skullclamp goes into the bird deck. Sneak Attack finally makes their big creature pile playable.

This is a false high, and it's not leading up to anything good.

The other shoe drops. What! They're letting other people play these cards too!?!? It's not fair! Suddenly it doesn't matter how much better your bird deck is with Skullclamp, because the jerk tournament player that was beating you before is now playing Clamp-Raffinity and using it that much more effectively. It doesn't matter how unfair Sneak Attack is; the Familiar-Bargain player is going to kill you long before you can cast it, much less untap with it in play.

Breaking the power level of a format does not allow you to beat good players. Only becoming a good player yourself can do that. The only thing breaking the power level of the format does is reduce the amount of time you get to spend each round losing and set up a decaying cycle of power creep. Right now, if the purple symbols are legal, it doubles or triples the power level of Standard. That's some pretty noticeable power creep right there.

[NoGameShow]

[QUOTE= ]Breaking the power level of a format does not allow you to beat good players. Only becoming a good player yourself can do that. QUOTE]



Wow, I think that is the first thing I have actually agreed with you on. Let's take skullclamp type 2 for example I got sick of being beaten by Ravager all the time and couldn't afford them myself so I assembled goblin bidding. At first I was constantly getting beaten but after learning the intricacies of the deck I started winning regularly. That's just my perception of the current situation.

[Alfred]

Yeah, the thing is, a lot of people are saying, "This is bringing a lot of people back to Magic!" when that actually mainly means, "A lot of people who paid 60$ for their playsets of Call of the Herd are going to play T2 again since they already have the cards". It's blazingly clear that it's more efficent to buy the originals of the reprints, or, better yet, already own them, than to try and find a playset of the new "secret rares" out of boxes of Time Spiral. So that actually doesn't help Wizards much from a financial stand point. Meanwhile, how many do you think will actually be drawn to Magic when Standard decks cost 400$ to build if they don't already own the cards?

This post surmises that the only attractive thing about Magic from both Wizards, and a player's perspective is money. Now I'm not saying that money does not play a signifigant role on both sides, but you have to admit that that isn't painting a complete picture of the situation.

People enjoy things that are familiar to them, former players would probably be far more engaged by things that they already know about, like older cards and older mechanics, which could trigger a powerful nostalgic response. On the other side, though it may be a by-product of wanting to make money, I think wizards wants to make a fun, cool and interesting game for people to play.

A former player, intrigued by this set, could so much as show up to the prerelease and do a few drafts with the new and old cards and there it is again, a newfound interest in an old hobby. That's also why drafting is the most popular format now, because the entry cost is so low, and the enjoyment level is arguably much higher than constructed. If they can't afford the constructed decks, they'll stick to the draft format, if they actually want to build constructed decks, they can do that too.

There is a scaleable payment plan for magic, ranging from free (MWS) to thousands of dollars (T1), so I'm not worried about new and old players picking up the game and having fun.


And, well... just to repeat myself from MTGS


"You don't think people were happy and estatic when Urza's came out? People love overpowered cards when they first get printed. Hell, people were jumping all over Skullclamp for their elf/cleric/bird decks in Standard when it came out. It's a pretty simple phenomena. Most players are pretty bad, so they get used over time to losing pretty regularly. Even if they're decent, they still lose a lot playing decks that, due to the nature of whichever format or community they play in, all tend to have the same power rough power level. What happens when they discover a new set of cards at a much higher power level? Pure euphoria, of course. Here are the cards to make their decks finally able to trash the competition! No more fuss! No more muss! Win easy! Win big! Skullclamp goes into the bird deck. Sneak Attack finally makes their big creature pile playable.

This is a false high, and it's not leading up to anything good.

The other shoe drops. What! They're letting other people play these cards too!?!? It's not fair! Suddenly it doesn't matter how much better your bird deck is with Skullclamp, because the jerk tournament player that was beating you before is now playing Clamp-Raffinity and using it that much more effectively. It doesn't matter how unfair Sneak Attack is; the Familiar-Bargain player is going to kill you long before you can cast it, much less untap with it in play.

This is an intriguing argument, and one that deserves quite a bit of merit, but I would counter that the most positive scenario is a fluctuating power level in standard. The valleys should not be too low nor the peaks too high, but as you can plainly see over the course of set to set and block to block, ones are obviously more powerful than others, while others are toned down. I'm pretty sure this is done on purpose, but obviously Wizards includes interesting aspects to every block, not just the powerful ones.

For example, we just went through an underpowered block with Kamigawa, which was toted as a "flavour oriented" block, and the power level was toned down considerably. Another more extreme example was the Urza/Masques block fiasco, where Wizards attempted this, but the mountain got too high, and the valley was WAY too low. They have become far, far more efficient at this process now. It's like riding a swing, right now we are approaching the top, but don't worry, we'll eventually get back down again.


Breaking the power level of a format does not allow you to beat good players. Only becoming a good player yourself can do that. The only thing breaking the power level of the format does is reduce the amount of time you get to spend each round losing and set up a decaying cycle of power creep. Right now, if the purple symbols are legal, it doubles or triples the power level of Standard. That's some pretty noticeable power creep right there.

Power creep doesn't exist in standard, because the format is constantly refreshing itself. When TS comes out it will be powerful, and everything will change, in exactly the same way as it would change if a powerful, or relevant block rotated out of the format. I agree that it will be powerful, but I think the stigma of powerful was created by Urza's block, due to the un-interactivity of the format as a whole. As long as you have good interaction, it doesn't matter how powerful the cards are, because as you say, good players will use the cards the best, just like it SHOULD be.

If you are talking about cards becoming more powerful because of sets that came before them, I would counter that cards are just becoming more complicated, so as to innovate. Like, there were a shitton of terrible, but original cards in Kamigawa block, and it was far worse than probably any block in power terms than any set up to Masques.

For example, though I see powerful cards, I don't see a lot of combo, or non-interactive cards being pushed. Not only does the new set look powerful, it looks cool, interesting and fun, which I think is the most important part. In short, it's got me fucking jazzed.


FAKEDIT: Also, as another self-proclaimed Fallen Empires fan, I challenge you to make a Legacy deck out of whatever that Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII artifact turns out to be.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

There seems to be exactly one relevant pro to this set over Urza's, in that this set clearly seeks to make aggro-control the most broken archetype in Type 2, whereas Urza's pushed combo into dominance. Quite probably, of any archetype, if one has to have a format dominated by the one archetype, aggro-control is best because it's allows some interactivity while not slowing the game down to a masochistic crawl that most people would have difficult enjoying, like a control enviroment would. However, I still don't consider a format defined by a few different tri-color aggro-control decks, which is where we seem to be headed, to be desirable, and it has the several negative cons over Urza's of not even breaking the format's power level with new cards, but simply with repeats, and in Urza's at least a number of the broken cards were common or uncommon, whereas the super-rare status of the Purple symbol means that you're reduced to scrambling for older copies of cards that have been out of print for years and years.

[Alfred]

There seems to be exactly one relevant pro to this set over Urza's, in that this set clearly seeks to make aggro-control the most broken archetype in Type 2, whereas Urza's pushed combo into dominance. Quite probably, of any archetype, if one has to have a format dominated by the one archetype, aggro-control is best because it's allows some interactivity while not slowing the game down to a masochistic crawl that most people would have difficult enjoying, like a control enviroment would. However, I still don't consider a format defined by a few different tri-color aggro-control decks, which is where we seem to be headed, to be desirable, and it has the several negative cons over Urza's of not even breaking the format's power level with new cards, but simply with repeats, and in Urza's at least a number of the broken cards were common or uncommon, whereas the super-rare status of the Purple symbol means that you're reduced to scrambling for older copies of cards that have been out of print for years and years.

I'm not sure that you can predict that an Aggro-control deck will be the best deck come TS. As of right now, the best deck in the format is probably Solar Flare, which is pretty much a Control deck. Sure it uses powerful creatures to win the game, but I'm pretty sure most people would agree that it's far more controlling than aggro.

For all I, or you know, a control deck could be the best deck when TS is finally "figured out" in any real sense. The aggro control idea seems a little premature if you ask me.

Also, the idea of purple cards being bad for the common magic player is rediculous, because you get essentially 2 rare, or desirable cards per pack, rather than, if what you are saying is true (where only the rare cards are powerful), a single powerful card. I makes the worth of any of these packs far greater than a pack of another set or block.

I also don't see why broadening the market for certain cards that are still in the marketplace is a bad thing, save for maybe PsyBlast, which could be considered unfair for people who own the old version PURELY for it's price value. Even these people might like playing with them again. Purple cards seem more fair to me because there is already a singles market to accomodate the demand AS WELL as the one that will be created via people buying packs and boxes. And believe you me, this set will probably sell really, really well.

[Eldariel]

My beliefs were confirmed: Lord of Atlantis is back! (and that means it'll be a Merfolk Lord at long last) That means we might finally be able to make an actually good Merfolk-deck in Legacy! And even if not, it's still awesome for Merfolk to get some love ^^

[Ewokslayer]

My beliefs were confirmed: Lord of Atlantis is back! (and that means it'll be a Merfolk Lord at long last) That means we might finally be able to make an actually good Merfolk-deck in Legacy! And even if not, it's still awesome for Merfolk to get some love ^^

I am pretty sure that it wasn't Lord of Atlantis' creature type holding back a good Merfolk deck. It was all the Merfolk in the deck.

[Eldariel]

I am pretty sure that it wasn't Lord of Atlantis' creature type holding back a good Merfolk deck. It was all the Merfolk in the deck.

May be, but the fact that Lord of Atlantis wasn't a Merfolk made effects like Tidal Courier and Sea Hunter pretty worthless. Now they at least have something to build on. Yea, you're probably right, but this does nothing to make it worse and the print of Coral Trickster might suggest that they might print more Merfolk, potentially even making some good ones in the process.

[Ewokslayer]

Yea, you're probably right, but this does nothing to make it worse and the print of Coral Trickster might suggest that they might print more Merfolk, potentially even making some good ones in the process.

I suppose if they print enought Merfolk they are bound to make ones that don't suck simply by accident.

Maybe they will just start making every blue creature that is a 2/2 or smaller a merfolk.
It worked for Goblins.

[cupajoe]

I'm not super old-school, but fairly so, having played since 1995

This is the first set I've considered buying boxes of since Invasion (I've purchased some singles of newer cards, and won a few packs here and there, but I haven't bought a box since Invasion)

You have to remember something when considering Wizards' marketing strategy.....90 percent of the people who play this game merely play casually with friends at the kitchen table or at the card shop.....Some, like myself, may play in a tourney now and then, but only a very small percentage of the Magic-buying market are tournament hounds

After you've played the games for several years, the allure of buying boxes and learning six new keywords for sets that by and large don't have a lot of interactivity with the cards you already own is not too appealing.....

I have enough cards that I'm not using now where I could make some decent casual decks if I got bored with the decks I was playing and wanted to try something new....It has to be a really fun set for me to consider buying it....

That's the market Wizards is trying to attract....Get back all of the people who still play but aren't buying a lot of product anymore......Plus keep it interesting for the newer players.....It's a brilliant strategy.....

If I buy the new set, I would only have to learn two new easy-to-understand keywords, plus I get new variants of all the old keywords.....And I get a few cards with the old cardface

Nostalgia mixed with new stuff.....Very nice.....

Power creep is not necessarily bad....In the older sets, you were far more likely to open up a pack that had terrible commons, bad uncommons, and an unusable rare like Chaoslace.....That doesn't happen anymore

Power creep has happened in that the worst cards are not as bad as they used to be, and the average cards are playable and better than they used to be

The really good cards, by and large, have not been broken....The last really bad mistake on Wizards' part was Skullclamp....

I doubt that Wizards made a mistake in Time Spiral on the level of Skullclamp.....I guess we'll see......

[SillyMetalGAT]

You have to remember something when considering Wizards' marketing strategy.....90 percent of the people who play this game merely play casually with friends at the kitchen table or at the card shop.....Some, like myself, may play in a tourney now and then, but only a very small percentage of the Magic-buying market are tournament hounds

Thats not true at all. Look at how many people appeared at Regionals. Somewhere between 200-600 at EACH regionals would be a good average. I know there were about 500-600 at the one I went to, and that was the Northern New England regionals. Then think about the number of people in attendance at the PTQ's, GPs, and Pre-Releases. Thats just in America too. Millions of people play Magic, and most of them go to tournaments.

[parallax]

Does anyone else think that the purple cards were just a trick to get older cards that they couldn't "normally" reprint into MTGO? Especially Tormod's Crypt?

They need to reprint Reset and High Tide so we can play Solidarity online.

[Nightmare]

Thats not true at all. Look at how many people appeared at Regionals. Somewhere between 200-600 at EACH regionals would be a good average. I know there were about 500-600 at the one I went to, and that was the Northern New England regionals. Then think about the number of people in attendance at the PTQ's, GPs, and Pre-Releases. Thats just in America too. Millions of people play Magic, and most of them go to tournaments.It's actually a fact that more people play this game on the kitchen table than at the tournament tables. Casual Magic is Wizards' largest audience, whether you believe it or not.

[SillyMetalGAT]

It's actually a fact that more people play this game on the kitchen table than at the tournament tables. Casual Magic is Wizards' largest audience, whether you believe it or not.

Seriously? I would think that when the people buy cards, they buy them in a card store that holds tournaments, then they would get involved. Huh, thats funny though. Sorry for being wrong, Just that everyone I know plays tournament magic.

[AngryTroll]

Whatever, I played 5 color merfolk and it was awesome.

Seriously, though, there are some good merfolk out there. There was a cycle in Invasion block of 2/2s for 2 with an added ability: Galina's Knight, Gaea's Skyfolk, Razorfin Hunter, and a Zombie; Pro:red, Flying, ping, and Pro: green. Tidal Warrior is a 1/1 for U that ends up giving your guys an island for their islandwalk; and...ok, so I am out of great ideas. There are other random ones that steal cards from other libraries, but meh.

You are on color for cards like MisD, Force, Daze, Brainstorm, StP...basically thresh, with worse creatures! Or Slivers, with worse creatures! Oh. Fine.

Still, I am going to go find my Lords of Atlantis and dust them off. Good times. I like Galina's Knight and the Zombie in the same deck, though...hmm.

[on1y0ne]

Since the Purple cards will also be available in foil, the idea of foreign foil purple cards was brought to my attention. Foil Japanese Psi Blasts, or Flying Men, or Swamp Mosquitoes, or Tormod's Crypts, or Blessings, or Gemstone Mines, or Dandan, etc.

I love Time Spiral already....

[quicksilver]

I love Time Spiral already....

If you love it so much why don't you marry it?

[Atwa]

Boy,

I just looked at mtgsalvation, and I saw a link to a french site where they are uploading almost the complete set. The cards are in french (someone must have cracked a box open or something).

Anyway, I saw the purple version of Lord of Atlantis. My french is very limited (I really can't learn other foreign languages except english for some reason), even though I've had it at school for 5 years, but as far as I can translate, the Lord is finally reworded the same way Goblin King was done with the release of 9th edition.

Finally recognition...

[on1y0ne]

If you love it so much why don't you marry it?

OK, Pee Wee! LOL

[Finn]

I'm thinking that Wizards is making an effort to remove barriers to this format. With all the attention being paid to older cards and sets it just seems that Legacy is slightly less in the cold than usual. Hell even Flores mentioned Legacy in the final breath of his article today.

STP, Duals, Psionic Blast, Flying Men, etc. reprinted in the last dew months. That is most ancient playable cards seeing the light of day since Chronicles.

After all, if people have the cards already, they might as well try it.

[Shriekmaw]

When I saw that the purple cards were going to be tournament legal in Standard, I thought this might be the "Best Set Ever". This set just adds so much to the standard and extended formats.

If they have Foil purple cards, then those might be the hottest things I will ever see in Magic period.

[on1y0ne]

If they have Foil purple cards, then those might be the hottest things I will ever see in Magic period.

Foil Purple cards are real. I have already seen some. :cool:

[Caboose]

Didn't that lame artist Matt Cavotta help design this set? He's going to be at my Pre-Release, and I honestly may have to physically assault him. I hate this set. I hate how greedy these WotC assholes are. I need to buy Meddling Mages for Threshold, and the price is going to skyrocket now.

I'm going to finish building Threshold, sell all my cards except for a couple other casual decks, and never buy another magical card. I really am enraged by this. I haven't been this upset in years. Money hungry d-bags!

[Vardaman]

I think Meddling Mage as a purple has been debunked recently.

[JeremM]

Of course WotC is trying to maximize their profits. They're a business, and that's what businesses do. They're not a bunch of altruists that work full-time jobs so we can have fun (although that's a positive side effect); MaRo needs to buy his flannel shirts somehow, and you can't spend fun.

That being said, I can't wait for the prerelease tomorrow. I probably won't even play (and if I do, I'll scrub out), but I really need to buy some cards/sleeves from dealers and maybe sell some Legacy staples to Standard players at inflated prices.

[Black and Blue]

It has now been reported that due to reorganizing of the collating machines at the card printer the foil card now replaces a common in Time Spiral packs. You now have the possibility of opening a pack that will have its standard rare, a foil rare, AND a chase 'timeshifted' card.

Indeed, these are interesting times.

[umbowta]

I went out shopping last night and found out about the purple cards. If it's true, it goes against much of the preaching wizards has been doing lately about the color balance, powerful artifacts, etc. With the whole Rancored-Elf thing going on, I'm half tempted to think we're being fed a line of B.S. Nonetheless, I secured several FBB Disenchants, Tims, Canes. I hope the purples are for real.

I also grabbed 3 Beta BEBs, FBB Dark Ritual, And many Foils including Mongrels, and Mongoose all on the super cheap.

[Finn]

Well, Salvation has the full spoiler now and Meddling Mage is not on it. That's fine by me.

If there is one thing I have learned about Wizards stating a policy, it is that the policy is only there to serve them as long as it suites them. Breaking a policy is fine, but the presence of direct damage in blue rubs me the wrong way. In Legacy, fine, but I am just glad I don't play Standard or Block.

That said, this set has two more mechanics that tell counterspells to shove it.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Well, Salvation has the full spoiler now and Meddling Mage is not on it. That's fine by me.

Any idea as to what the "timespiraled " black card #18 is? The MTGS spoiler has it at 17/18 for now.

[on1y0ne]

Any idea as to what the "timespiraled " black card #18 is? The MTGS spoiler has it at 17/18 for now.

shadow guildmage

[Drathro]

Well, if Gatherer is up to date, then the Pruple "Timeshifted" cards will be legal in everything, including Standard, starting Oct. 20th. I know this isn't a big deal to the Legacy community, but it surprised me! Since I am still slowly building my Legacy card-base, I hope in vain that this will make a few of the cards I'm interested in available at little cheaper cost. More likely though, the prices will be higher.

[Cavius The Great]

Breaking a policy is fine,

You mean changing a policy. The people in power can do anything they want and they're not obligated to limit themselves by their own rules. Policies change all the time, even in the real world, on a day to day basis. Just ask President Bush. :wink:

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Why is it changing a policy? Nothing about R&D's public stance about breaking the color wheel and power level of a set has changed, they've just apparently ignored it in this case because the new block theme is meant to be nostalgic things about the past, like horrendously bad R&D decisions.

[xsockmonkeyx]

What is the new errata on Lord of Atlantis? Is it "other merfolk" or "all merfolk"?

[AngryTroll]

Please, Please, Please be "Creature- Merfolk Lord".

It would be just silly if it had that and said "All Merfolk". I would settle for the updated creature type.

[URABAHN]

What is the new errata on Lord of Atlantis? Is it "other merfolk" or "all merfolk"?

The card is printed as follows:

UU, Creature - Merfolk Lord 2/2
Other Merfolk get +1/+1 and have islandwalk.
A master of tactics, the Lord of Atlantis makes his people bold in battle merely by arriving to lead them.
Illus. Melissa Benson

So, if you had two Lord of Atlantis in play, they'd be 3/3 Merfolk.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Tidal Courier say what?

[NoGameShow]

Tidal Courier say what?



Food Chain merolk for the win

[dahcmai]

Well from hitting Ebay to see how many purple foils showed up at the prerelease events it's pretty barren. Foil blasts going for like $60 and I saw one, just one foil Crypt going for over $100. Scary...

I really hope they aren't THAT rare and they end up being not worth going after because of price. I was kind of looking forward to getting a set of foil Wall of Roots and Crypts. I might dish the cash to get one foil blast or wait till I see one packed, but at this rate Ebay or similar is about the only way to get one of the better foils other than cracking a ton of boxes.


If you have to pay $50 for a foil Squire that will be just sad. Though it does make for some awesome packing. I hope it doesn't make for mean drafting since no one will want to lose a draft if a foil purple shows up and try to get nasty in playing and lose the fun of it.

[Nightmare]

Well from hitting Ebay to see how many purple foils showed up at the prerelease events it's pretty barren. ... just one foil Crypt going for over $100. Scary....Guaranteed that won't sell. Crypts will level out around 10 probably. This guy is working on riding the initial hype, nothing more.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The normal price of a foil card is usually based on it's rarity level. This doesn't work in the case of Crypt; Crypt will be a heavily, heavily, heavily played uncommon in Extended and Type 2, and probably top out, given that it's been printed a fair bit, at maybe 4-6$. Foil Crypts only exist from amongst the new set of super secret rare Crypts, however. 100$ is probably a bit high, but for a card that many people, including the retarded players that need every card in their deck pimped out, are going to need 4-of in a lot of sideboards, I think 30-40$ is quite reasonable a conservative estimate. I'm not even going to touch the foil Gemstone Mines/Psionic Blasts.

[on1y0ne]

There are now two Crypts on eBay. One is at 39.99 with one bidder. The other has a starting bid of $35. I have one, too, but it is promised to a teammate if I get rid of it. I think the playable purple cards will keep a decent value, just as a rare will. Although I am not a foil person, I like the look of the Crypt. I would like to get Psi Blasts in foil, but I am not going to give an arm, leg, my kidney, and my first born for one, let alone a play set.

The foil Dragon Whelp I got looks amazing. The eyes glow. I was impressed that out of two boxes, I got a total of 27 foils, including 4 foil rares and 4 foil purples.

[Drathro]

Just a couple of observations, nothing controversial:

I was looking at the Timeshifted cards, and suddenly realized that Mistform Ultimus is no longer an "Uncle-Istvan!" I poked around a little more and realized that the "Flying-Men" creature type is gone, too. What's next, losing "Pixie-Queen?"

The creature type change I really don't understand is Sengir Autocrat. Originally, it changed from "Autocrat" to "Minion," which was probably a sensible change. It makes me wonder why they now changed it from "Minion" to just plain "Human" instead of to "Human Minion," especially since they recently re-typed Shauku's Minion to a "Human Minion" when Mirage went online.

EDIT: Here are a few more crazy changes (one of these is fake):
Beast -> Bird! (one occurrence, not all Beasts)
Dervish -> Human Monk
Ship -> Human Pirate (Metamorphic schooner?)
Cap -> Cape (its elementary...)

and a bunch of other changes, mostly to simplify the type list, I guess

[umbowta]

Has anyone seen or gotten their hands on a foil timeshifted Disenchant? I've checked eBay a few times and no one is auctioning one yet?

[whienot]

Here's your foil Disenchant.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Foil-S-Chinese-Disenchant-Timeshifted-Mint-MTG_W0QQitemZ180033491554QQihZ008QQcategoryZ49185QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[umbowta]

Here's your foil Disenchant.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Foil-S-Chinese-Disenchant-Timeshifted-Mint-MTG_W0QQitemZ180033491554QQihZ008QQcategoryZ49185QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemMmmmm, Chinese too. Sexy.

[Angel of Despair]

OMG!I want that!!:eek:

[dahcmai]

I just want a playset of Foil Wall of Roots and Crypts. A foil blast would be nice but I'm not paying those crazy prices. Maybe I can trade one of my unlimited ones for one.

[Nightmare]

I just want a playset of Foil Wall of Roots and Crypts. A foil blast would be nice but I'm not paying those crazy prices. Maybe I can trade one of my unlimited ones for one.
Don't forget Gemstone mines. Gotta have the old card face foil Mines.