[Deck] UBg Psychatog aka Dredge-A-Tog

[Benie Bederios]

First these 2 points

1. I know there is a thread in the open forum about Psychatog, but I created this thread, because I only wanted to discus UBg Psychatog. This brings me on point 2.

2. This thread is to discus UBg Psychatog and not other versions like Burning Tog. I can understand if someone adds a fourth colour, but Burning Tog, or ZaT are completly other decks.

Now for the deck

Psychatog is one of the most powerfull creatures of magic. Since it's printing it's been a creature that has been seen in aggro decks( Friggorid), aggro controldecks( Gro-A-Tog) but above all in control decks.

Why is this card that good in a control deck? If you compare it to other killconditions in control decks, like Morphling/Exalted Angel, it is the cheapest in casting and maintenance. On top of it, most of the time it is the fastest kill. The only thing "Dr. Tooth" asks is to have a fat graveyard. With the printing of Ravinca a new mechanism was introduced: Dredge. This mechanism gave tog the power too grow faster and bigger than ever before AND giving Tog a new draw-engine.

This new deck, Dredge-A-Tog( I think designed by Bardo and JACO), looks like the old Vintage Hulksmash, and is one of the fastest controldecks in the format with possible turn 5 kills. The deck has got the following parts:

1. The control
2. The draw
3. The Engine
4. The kill
5. The mana

Now I'm going to explain those parts. Note this is a sample decklist, this is nowhere near the ideal list

1. The control

4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
1 Darkblast
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 Wasteland

The first two are autoincludes for blue-based control. The power of blue is that they simply can deny spells and these ar the best hardcounters of Legacy. The problem of blue-based control is and has always been aggro. Therefore rest of the controlsuit is primary chosen as creature control. Darkblast is the perfect weenie killer. Early on it shoots down only x/1 but later on, when you get your draw cards online it can shoot bigger creatures, while filling up your graveyard. Pernicious Deed is the boardsweeper of choice. The great thing is that it hits everything, including Pithing Needle, AEther Vial, Humilty, Rifter and Nimble Mongoose. The last spots are given to Stinkweed Imp. Always remember that this is a control card in the first place and a graveyardfiller in the second. It's insane against decks who packs bigger, but fewer creatures( Thresh/ 5 split 3.) Wasteland is a powerfull card that can punish opponents who play few/none basiclands due to recursion with Life from the Loam.

2. The draw

4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Deep Analysis
1 Fact or Fiction

The way a control deck normally wins a game is through cardadvantage. And one way to gain it is to draw more cards than your opponent. Brainstorm doesn't give cardadvantage, but just cardquality. Nonetheless it's one of the best cards in Legacy, combined with fetchlands, but specially with Dredge. If you've got 2 Stinkweed Imps and a Life from the Loam in the graveyard a single Brainstorm can give tog +8/+8. With all the dredging you will get through your deck really fast, and changes are high you will find most of your Accumulated Knowledges, and gain massive card advantages with it. Please do not use Intuition for triple AK. 1) This isn't vintage where you have manadrain and 2) There are far better things to do with Intuition. Deep Analysis works the same way as AK. You will dredge in the graveyard or discard them to pump Psychatog. The last slot goes to Fact or Fiction. This card is card is very powerfull and the quote "EOTFOFYL" is very true for this deck.

The Engine

4 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam
3 Lonely Sandbar
1 Mystical Tutor

The engine is pretty obvious. When the early rush is held back, and you want to gain cardadvantage the easiest method to do this is Intuition for Life from the Loam and 2 Lonely Sandbar. This gives This will give you atleast to cards a turn. The cost to this is quite high, but you can do it every turn. But Intuition can do alot more. Some combinations:

Life from the Loam/ Lonely Sandbar/ Wasteland: Can put opponents in a wastelock fast and get a little draw online.

Darkblast/ Stinkweed Imp/ Stinkweed Imp: Having problems with creatures, this solves it. Next to that it can make your graveyard very big, with a Brainstorm or Deep Analysis. If you tutor for Deep Analysis instead of Darkblast you just created the ultimate milling machine. If you play it EOT with an active tog you can normally win the game.

Triple Force of Will or Pernicious Deed: The so called O-shituition. Only used in emergencies.

Of course there alot more combinations, and if you have one of the cards you want to tutor, you can normally just choose a AK or DA instead.

The last card is Mystical Tutor. A nice tutor who can fetch most needed card in the deck. Not broken, but certainly not weak

The kill

3 Psychatog
1 Genesis
1 Wonder

Psychatog is obvious, this deck is called Dredge-A-Tog for a reason, come on if you are still wondering why it's in the deck you should stop playing magic. Genesis is there to recur fallen Psychatogs. It is delivered in a nice 4/4 body wich is hard to kill, Remember this. Wonder is there to get around chumpblockers.

The Mana

1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Wasteland
5 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Lonely Sandbar
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island

Nothing strange here. Cephalid Coliseum and Wasteland as special lands, 6 basics, 6 fetches to go with the Brainstorm and Lonely Sandbar for the drawengine.

So for the easy reading the complete list

UBg Dredge-A-Tog

Lands
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Wasteland
5 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Lonely Sandbar
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island

Creatures
3 Psychatog
1 Genesis
1 Wonder
2 Stinkweed Imp

Other
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
1 Darkblast
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Deep Analysis
1 Fact or Fiction

I don't have test results against the toptier decks and therefore no Sideboard. I will post them as soon as I have them, but I don't really know against wich decks to test it apart for NQG( red and white), Gobins and Solidarity.

Now some questions, hopes this starts the discussion:

1. Pernicious Deed: yes or no? In the MD or SB and how many?

2. Cunning Wish, hot or not. If hot, how many spaces in the SB would you devote to it and wich cards?

3. Mox Diamond? How many lands then?

4. Wich toolbox cards: Wasteland, Cephalid Coliseum, Cabal Pit, Darkblast, Stinkweed Imp?

5. How about Nimble Mongoose or Exploration?

6. Maybe Duress MD?

BB

[Negator131]

1. I wish I didn't have to run Deed, but it's a bit of a necessary evil. It's been glacially slow for me, but I understand why it's in the deck. That said, I'd cut it at the first hint of an alternative that was more tempo-efficient.

2. Nope. It bastardizes your sideboard and is too slow.

3. The builds I've tinkered with haven't run it, but it does seem theoretically sound, as almost every game you play involves Intuitioning for Life from the Loam and two lands.

4. All of them. I'm serious. Though I would run one less Stinkweed Imp than you do.

5. Nimble Mongoose for me is a definite 'yes'. It gives a much-needed answer to an early Lackey. Exploration seems almost strictly worse than Mox Diamond.

6. I've never been a fan of Duress in Legacy, so I'll vote no, but if your metagame has more Control than mine, feel free to play it.

Now for some talking points of my own.

Why Accumulated Knowledge? It seems like your rationale is fundamentally flawed for it, in that if I hit a majority of my deck, I'd rather find Psychatog and win the game than Accumulated Knowledge #4 and draw four cards.

Why not Meloku the Clouded Mirror? It seems like a good inclusion to the maindeck, as Needle on Psychatog becomes less of a problem.

Why not Vedalken Shackles? That card is really ridiculous in this deck. Simply game-winning in a lot of tight spots.

I never really liked Mystical Tutor. It just seemed a bit lacking when I drew it, with the notable exception of being Force-bait. Your mileage may vary.



A list that I toyed around with for a while:

3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Wasteland
1 Cabal Pit
1 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Lonely Sandbar

4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Psychatog
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Genesis
1 Wonder

4 Brainstorm
2 Darkblast
4 Counterspell
1 Life from the Loam
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Vedalken Shackles
3 Deep Analysis
1 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will

2 OPEN

Your thoughts?

[No_Life_No_Future]

engineered explosives might be cool in the place of deed. Its faster....

Why no Sylvan library? its incredible and it has crazy synergy with dredge

[Hanni]

I REALLY like the idea of Meloku in this deck... it comes down as an alternate win condition, can be discarded via Intuition and brought back with Genesis, and the lands that you return to hand are actually synergistic with Psychatog and can potentially speed up his clock (I've played against Dredge-a-Tog before and the games get really long, I'm talkin 30-40 minute matches lasting like 30+ turns).

I think 2 Fact or Fiction would be a good number... it increases the chance you'll actually see it and decreases the chance that it's going to be dredged into your graveyard (and wasted), but it also isn't enough to consistently see it early game when you don't want it. It just seems amazing, giving you an amazing amount of card advantage while filling up your graveyard at the same time.

I played against a variant running Nimble Mongoose and it definitely seemed to help alot against aggro.

Alot of people don't seem to like Pernicious Deeds but I think it's almost a mandatory inclusion, if only to get rid of resolved Needles, which a real killer for this deck (unless you run alternative win conditions via Nimble Mongoose and/or Meloku).

Has running 4 Counterspells ever seemed to be dead weight? I know that in my deck leaving UU open is often a problem, especially early game where it matter, though it looks like that isn't a huge problem here. I just figured I'd ask anyway. I've always like the 4/3/2 split of FoW/Daze/Counterspell myself.

Is running only 1 Loam safe? It seems like a single Tormod's Crypt or Withered Wretch when Loam is in the yard could be devastating to recover from with only 1 Loam.

Has Accumulated Knowledge actually been useful? I like AK, but it seems that with all the dredging your likely to dredge away the 3rd and 4th copies with no way to return them from your graveyard (since your not running Eternal Witness or something similar).

I'd probably cut the lone Mystical Tutor to just run a 2nd Loam, it seems like your rarely going to draw into it and the tempo/card advantage loss kinda sucks. The main point of (Mystical) Tutors, in my opinion, is to either have additional means to grab combo pieces in combo decks or have the ability to toolbox. With only 1, toolboxing doesn't seem necessary, and with Intuition, it doesn't really seem like there is much you need to grab as far as combo pieces go.

I think 2 Darkblast is a solid option, it gets rid of first turn Lackey's and assists with the dredging. It also takes out Dark Confidant's and Soltari Priests with ease. 2 is kinda dead weight, but it helps you draw into it more often if you can't get to it with Intuition (for whatever reason).

I really think you should consider Cabal Pit. Colorless recurring removal, especially since it targets 2 toughness guys, is just really appealing to me. It's toolboxed via Intuition when Loam is online. Did you consider this card, did you not have room, did you not like it? I think running it as a 1-of solves alot of miscelaneous problems.

That's about all I can think of for now.

[parallax]

I don't know about Pernicious Deed. I would much rather have access to Mox Diamond, which has ridiculous synergy with this LftL. Some sort of removal for Needle seems necessary. I would lean towards creature-based solutions for synergy with Genesis/dredge. The new flashback Shatter might work when Time Spiral becomes legal, though. Too bad they didn't make a dredge-Naturalize.

I almost like the idea of Living Wish in this deck. It can find Psychatog, Genesis, Wonder, Pithing Needle removal, Eternal Witness. It may or may not be worth it, but it seems like a possibility.

[Benie Bederios]

Hmm, all great points. let respond to some.


Why not Meloku the Clouded Mirror? It seems like a good inclusion to the maindeck, as Needle on Psychatog becomes less of a problem.

Why not Vedalken Shackles? That card is really ridiculous in this deck. Simply game-winning in a lot of tight spots.

I totally forgot to mention them. They are good, especially for the controlish version. At the moment I'm testing another build with Mox Diamond and found them to slow. About Mystical Tutor, it was used so that you could play some 1-off's in the SB, wich gave you more option postboard. But it probably goes out.


engineered explosives might be cool in the place of deed. Its faster....

Great suggestion. I testing them directly and they are awesome. It can kill Needles without loosing Mox Diamond. It's a pitty it isn't as savage against Affinity.


I REALLY like the idea of Meloku in this deck... it comes down as an alternate win condition, can be discarded via Intuition and brought back with Genesis, and the lands that you return to hand are actually synergistic with Psychatog and can potentially speed up his clock (I've played against Dredge-a-Tog before and the games get really long, I'm talkin 30-40 minute matches lasting like 30+ turns).

Uhm, I don't think this deck is slow. It's the fastest controldeck of the format. I normally win on turn 8 to 11, but some builds can win on turn 6. So I don't think you need Meloku for speeding up the kill, but it's good for dodging Needle and holding of a horde of creatures. About 4 Counterspells, have you got anything else to do on turn 2? I really don't like Daze in control decks. It sets you back to much. Aggrocontrol can use it because they want to play business spells turn 1 and 2, but this deck just sits back and try to get his engine online. From there you will have enough mana to cast your spells and have counterbackup. The single Life from the Loam is enough. You don't want to draw multiple. If it gets Crypted away you didn't play it well.


I really think you should consider Cabal Pit. Colorless recurring removal, especially since it targets 2 toughness guys, is just really appealing to me. It's toolboxed via Intuition when Loam is online. Did you consider this card, did you not have room, did you not like it? I think running it as a 1-of solves alot of miscelaneous problems.


4. Wich toolbox cards: Wasteland, Cephalid Coliseum, Cabal Pit, Darkblast, Stinkweed Imp?

I did consider them, but I chose Coliseum instead, because I already ran alot of removal and Coliseum taps for blue.


I almost like the idea of Living Wish in this deck. It can find Psychatog, Genesis, Wonder, Pithing Needle removal, Eternal Witness. It may or may not be worth it, but it seems like a possibility.

I rather play Cunning Wish, but both wishes are quite slow and it really hurts the SB, so I think we've got to settle with Deed or EE.

BB

[Bane of the Living]

There is certainly already a UBg Dredgatog thread in exsistence. You should've searched for it first. There are probably three to four now. Maybe a mod could clean that problem up for us?

The biggest things I see debatable in Dredgatog are..

1. Nimble Mongoose or Meloku
I like mongoose but I dont feel like he's needed. Especially in builds running Deed. Meloku is a better alt win. With Exploration hes b r o k e n.

2. Mox Diamond or Exploration?
I would never ever play this deck without one of these options. The decks game speeds up by at least 10 mintutes. Exploration is the shit, and anyone who hasnt played around with it should take it into consideration.

3. More than one LftL.
Im a fan of 2-3 because I hate wasting an Intuition target on it. The deck also runs LIKE SHIT without it. So not drawing Intuition or your one of is boo hoo for you.

[Brushwagg]

In my experience with the deck I found Life from the Loam to be slow. It really doesn't come on line till turn 3-4 or later and other then filling the yard doesn't really do anything else. Intuition is another card that has been kinda meh. Sure it can get you what you want, but not until turn 3 at the earilest.

I've been working on and off with a list that kills turn 4 consitantly. While I know my list does need some more control It's still pretty stable.

Here's a list for the other way DAT can go.

Dredge-A-Tog

Lands
4x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
4x Underground Sea
3x Tropical Island
3x Island
1x Swamp
2x Cephalid Coliseum

Creatures
4x Tog
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
2x Wonder
1x Brawn
2x Stinkweed Imp
4x Nightscape Familiar

Draw
4x Serum Visions
4x Brainstorm
4x Deep Analysis
4x Caredful Study

Counter
4x Force of Will
4x Daze

SB
3x Quirion Dryad
3x Pithing Needle
3x Naturalize
3x Misdirection
3x Perish

Basically the first couple of turns is cantrip. By turn 3 you should have a Tog in play and be ready to win on turn 4.

This is my latest list, but it going to need to be re-worked a little with the printing of Jotun Grunt and a few other cards. I'm lookink at either fitting in Smother or Ghastly Demise. I also like the suggestion on Nimble Mongoose.

Edit:Forgot 1 thing: In a pinch if all else goes to hell in a hand basket Grave-Troll can come down as a HUGE Flying and Trampling house.

[Bane of the Living]

Why Nightscape Familiar? The only spells in your deck he effects are Deep Anal and Tog... Am I missing something?

[Hanni]

The only spells in your deck he effects are Deep Anal and Tog... Am I missing something?

I know this isn't productive to the thread but... LMFAO. That's quote worthy if you ask me. Let me bold the funny part for everyone who didn't get it:

The only spells in your deck he effects are Deep Anal and Tog... Am I missing something?

Hahahahahaha....

[Togit460]

Why Nightscape Familiar? The only spells in your deck he effects are Deep Anal and Tog... Am I missing something?

Without a doubt one of the funnier posts i've ever seen while trying to be productive. Although i was wondering the same thing. Is nightscape familiar worth it, or is deep anal for one less mana just not that great?

[Negator131]

Hardcast Stinkweed Imp and Daze only cost 1B and U respectively. It also reduces the Flashback cost on Deep Anal, making the whole thing cost 2UU and 3 life for four cards.

Good ol' Deep Anal. Nothing beats Deep Anal.

[Lanfeng]

1. Pernicious Deed: yes or no? In the MD or SB and how many?
Yes, I pack 3-4

2. Cunning Wish, hot or not. If hot, how many spaces in the SB would you devote to it and which cards?
I like it here giving you dark blast, stifle, berserk, and naturalize in the board which allows for a lot of versatility, I'd devote 5-7 slots. Then again the more I think about it cunning wish looks less and less optimal although berserk is an amazing finisher. The versatility is great but the problem is that you wish for answers so on turn three I would rather draw cards on my opp.s end step because a wish can't do anything on turn three.

3. Mox Diamond? How many lands then?
Not in the same deck as deed, it may seem like a small deal but when you spent 2 cards to speed you up a turn you want to keep that tempo advantage, I've tested tog with moxes a lot and the deeds and moxes can't be in the same place.

4. Which toolbox cards: Wasteland, Cephalid Coliseum, Cabal Pit, Dark blast, Stinkweed Imp?
I'd say the strongest are cephalid coliseum and stinkweed imp, cabal pit is not uber, but Stinky and Coliseum are the tops.

5. How about Nimble Mongoose or Exploration?
I say neither because nimble mongoose serves too little a purpose in this deck, and exploration is not necessary because once you got loam engine going, your winning, or losing, exploration won't make the difference, I admit this is untested so I will make efforts to try exploration out some time.

6. Maybe Duress MD?
I like it, it’s not necessary

Also time spiral has tossed out some sauciness in:

Careful Consideration 2UU

Draw four cards, then discard 3, discard 2 if you played this during your main phase

This card is really flexible and I think it has a lot of potential for tog.

1. Nimble Mongoose or Meloku
meloku is a nice alt win, I prefer it over genesis.

3. More than one LftL.
I think 1 is enough because multiples are completely useless and intuition delivers fine.

[Brushwagg]

To answer the question on Nightscape. Yes he only effects a few cards (you forgot FOW too.) But his main purpose in the deck is to be a great early blocker, soaks up a edict effect, and I find that my opponents will throw hate at it. Also he does regenerate if need be. It's not just the spell reduction it's everything combined that makes him pretty good.


Careful Consideration 2UU

Draw four cards, then discard 3, discard 2 if you played this during your main phase

This card is really flexible and I think it has a lot of potential for tog.



I'm not sure about this. A little to expensive. I got a little excited about the Gush on a stick (name???) but it might even prove to be to slow. But I'm coming from where my list wants to go. But even for control it seems to slow.

[Bane of the Living]

Deep Anal. It only hurts the second time.

[Benie Bederios]

After testing I found we can go ways as a control deck, not the version of Brushwagg. The version of Brushwagg is a more aggroish build, more likely to Friggorid.

I found alot of spells autoincludes for the deck. I think there are only about 10 non-manaspots left. These spots are I think needed( Accumulated Knowledge has to much power to not play.)

Lands
24 ...

Creatures:
3 Psychatog
1 Genesis
1 Wonder

Other
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
3 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Darkblast
4 Brainstorm

You can fill the spots 2 ways. 1 is a control route, playing the long and boring game. A sample of it would be:

3 Pernicious Deed
2 Vedalkan Shackles
1 Meloku, Clouded Mirror
1/2 Fact or Fiction
0/1 Mystical Tutor( I still like the idea)
2 Duress

Another way is a faster aproach, weaker draw, weaker removal and fewer winconditions like this:

2 Stinkweed Imp
2 Darkblast
3 Deep Analysis
1 Intuition
2 Pithing Needle removal( Cunning Wish/ Engineered Explosive)

Wich one is the best, or can they be combined, what are the advantages of each, am I completely wrong?

And then, after testing with both versions, I found Solidarity a not so good matchup. You are milling the half of your deck before to kill him, but he can combo of in response, or even with lethal damage on the stack. Can we do something about it.

[Brushwagg]

Instead of the AK engine you can always go for Fathom Seer from Time Spiral. Gush is back. So AK can be cut and there for Intuition can be cut too.

[MattH]

Gush is awful when it costs 3 mana.

[Benie Bederios]

I think I will sooner remove Psychatog then Intuition. That card is the engine of a deck. It gets your drawengine. It can find answers for all top tier decks. It can find your win condition. It can even act as a counterspell. Why do you want to drop that card from the list, because of it's mana cost? The deck is a controldeck running up to 24 lands. Next to that, you (almost) NEVER Intuition for Accumulated Knowledge. I did it once against a Illusion Donate Deck who played AK and Intuitioned for it. Then it might be good to do, because you can draw 7 or 8 cards. This isn't Vintage, Mana Drain is banned. The reason AK is runned, that you mill almost your entire deck. You must not play them asap. Just hold the first one in hand, and if you mill another start playing them.

Your deck doesn't got a CA engine. Few control( where is Cabal Therapy by the way.) Your deck looks more like Friggorid, but you are unnable to take advantage of it, like Friggorid. I don't say your deck is bad, but it is not strictly better than the Control version.

About Fanthom Seer: See MattH, I can't really say it better. The hole point why Gush is banned, that it's free draw.

[Hanni]

Could Wild Mongrel be good in here as an alternate win condition? It helps you discard things like Genesis and Wonder when you Intuition for them and they put them to your hand. It can be fairly large when your playing LftL every turn. It can avoid Bolts, etc and it's a solid 2cc 2/2 drop. Not sure if it's the greatest inclusion but I definitely think it's worth consideration/playtesting. It can take the deck into a more aggro oriented version of Psychatog. The deck could drop Pernicious Deeds for it, or simply keep Deeds and rely on Genesis to recur them.

I think a more aggro approach to Psychatog, replacing board sweepers like Pernicious Deeds for more aggro, would make the decks matchup against combo alot better and probably make aggro matchups good too (blockers, push through early game damage so Psychatog can swing sooner, etc.). I'm not saying this is a better direction for the deck to go, I haven't played with Psychatog decks very much and I've never tried a more aggro approach either. I'm just thinking that a more aggro-oriented approach could be a good idea. It would be aggro/control/combo rather than control/combo, and a deck that is as transformational as that would be very hard to deal with.

U/G/b Aggro DAT

Lands (21)
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Lonely Sandbar
1 Cabal Pit
1 Wasteland

Creatures (14)
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Wild Mongrel
1 Genesis
1 Wonder
1 Stinkweed Imp
3 Psychatog

Spells (25)
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Intuition
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
1 Life from the Loam
1 Darkblast
4 Mox Diamond

Sideboard (15)
3 Stifle
1 Life from the Loam
3 Naturalize
4 Duress
2 Darkblast
2 Pithing Needle

I actually think the decklist is pretty good. Actually, I like it alot. I haven't playtested it but it seems pretty sound in theory, at least to me.

Pernicious Deeds is removed because the deck now runs more creatures (regardless of Genesis) and Mox Diamond.

The aggro itself should provide enough to handle opposing aggro through the early stages until the deck can establish control. The early game should be played as aggro.

Once the deck hits the mid-game, which is where this deck wants to be, it can switch over to control. The deck gains control through the large draw engine that it has, whether it be from blue-based draw or the Lftl/Sandbar engine. The deck has countermagic to establish and maintain control, recurring removal via Darkblast/Stinkweed Imp/Cabal Pit, recurring creature threats via Genesis, and additional control via recurring Wasteland.

Once the deck makes it to the point where it can swing with a lethal Psychatog (Wonder, reduce life total from the opponent via the aggro plan, enough cards in the graveyard, etc), Psychatog can come in for a quick combo-like finish.

I dropped out Cephalid Colliseum altogether because I really felt that the deck didn't need it.

3 Lonely Sandbar is plenty sufficient to run a Loam engine off of, especially with 12 other draw spells in the deck.

1 Island and 1 Forest gives a little bit of early game defenses against Wasteland when the Loam engine isn't running, and U/G are the 2 most important colors. The deck gets itself the extra black source from Cabal Pit anyway. 7 fetchlands give the deck a solid amount of color fixing, having access to 18 blue sources, 12 green sources, and 11 black sources. The 4 Mox Diamond help speed up the deck considerably, gives the deck protection early on against Wasteland, and it's drawback is negated by Loam. 21 lands should support Mox Diamond.

4 Nimble Mongoose and 4 Wild Mongrel give the deck a solid aggro package that both have synergies with the deck. They should provide solid early game defenses as well as solid late game aggression via Genesis/Wonder. They give an alternate win condition to Psychatog and can help speed up the clock of the deck by reducing the amount of damage Psychatog needs to do to swing for lethal.

I really like the 4/4/4 split of Brainstorm/Accumulated Knowledge/Intuition. It gives the deck a pretty good draw engine, increasing the consistency that the deck will draw into necessary engine pieces.

Counterspell was reduced to 3 because the deck has a bit more going on with aggro now. I was considering a 4/3/2 split of FoW/Daze/Counterspell but Daze still slows down the deck from reaching enough mana sources to hit the "control stage." The aggro plan isn't mean to be overly aggressive and win directly in that manner during the early game but rather to sustain itself into the mid-game. For now I think a 4/3 split of FoW/Counterspell should be sufficient, but it definitely needs playtested.

I think the deck only needs 1 Loam maindeck. People don't usually board in graveyard hate until game 2, which is why I have a 2nd Loam in the sideboard for games 2 and 3.

The sideboard was more or less just thrown together but I'll explain my choices. Stifle and Duress greatly help the combo matchup. Duress is also good against blue-based aggro/control like Threshold and Fish. The extra Loam comes in games 2 and 3 to get around the graveyard hate that will get boarded in from most decks. Naturalize answers problematic cards like Pithing Needle. The extra Darkblasts come in against Goblins and Fish (and possibly other aggro matchups). Pithing Needle is a versatile answer to the many random cards out there that can be problematic.

Other card options (for maindeck or sideboard) can include Cabal Therapy, Engineered Explosives, Krosan Grip, Roar of the Wurm, Eternal Witness, and Meloku the Clouded Mirror among others. With Wild Mongrel, the deck can even begin to splash some of the elements of Madness into the deck (like Arrogant Wurm), though I think Flashback cards would be better suited in this deck than Madness cards if any at all. For example, Deep Anal instead of Accumulated Knowledge or something.

So what do you guys think? Does Aggro DAT have potential or is it simply inferior to the more traditional builds of DAT?

[Benie Bederios]

Wild Mongrel is certainly a possibilty. giving the deck additional bodies to helps. But the problem I see is that it's just a weaker Psychatog most of the time. It only dodges the Needle put on Psychatog. The only advantage is see that it comes down a turn earlier, so it can block a Lackey on the play. I think the card can be good in Brushwagg's version with alot of Dredge. This way you can go as fast as possible to get a fat graveyard.

Other points with your deck. I don't like Mox Diamond. The power of Mox Diamond is that it accelarates, but quite some times it your third landdrop comes to late, when you want to Intuition on turn 3.

If you want a cheap counter, you also can use Cabal Therapy or Duress. A little weaker, but they can be played instead of Daze.

I think running both Mongoose and Mongrel is just not it. Don't get me wrong, I'm dutch and don't know a good English word for it. You play alot of aggro, but you can't really run control with it. You also give up some of your lategame, because of fewer creature control and no sweepers. What I'm trying to say, you can't fulfill both roles optimal. You can't put up a clock as ********(aggro-control) can, with your creatures protected by counters and it isn't Bw Confidant(aggro-control) Who can really control the lategame with Scroll and Vindicate. So the deck isn't really focussed. Do you understand?

[Hanni]

Well, Wild Mongrel might be a weaker Psychatog but it gives the deck an early game body to deal with opposing aggro and it gives the deck an alternate win condition. It can pitch away cards like Wonder and Genesis and it works really well with Loam, attacking as a 5/5 (potentially with flying) each turn.

I think Mox Diamond is awesome in Psychatog decks.
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=29011.0
There's alot of other people that think so too, and there's discussion on it in the above link. Accelerating into a turn 1 Wild Mongrel followed by a turn 3 Intuition helps the deck set up much faster, among other things. 21 lands with 4 Mox Diamond should easily support 3 mana by turn 3 unless the opponent has Wastelands, in which case Mox Diamond negates that and the deck can fetch for basics too.

Duress/Cabal Therapy maindeck is a viable option but I'm not quite sure I'd want to run them in place of Counterspell.

I think running Mongoose and Wild Mongrel together is actually really good. It gives the deck an alternate win condition with an aggro package. It's a faster answer to early game aggro threats than Pernicious Deeds and it puts up a faster clock against combo. My decklist doesn't really run alot of aggro, 13 creatures total with only 8 of them being actual early game threats. The deck doesn't really give up much lategame because the aggro (especially being recurred by Genesis) gives creature coontrol answers by blocking and the deck should be able use cards like Stinkweed Imp and Cabal Pit lategame to deal with threats that slip past. I don't think the deck needs sweepers to be honest. Also, Pernicious Deeds doesn't work out with Mox Diamond and I really think Mox Diamond does alot for the deck.

The aggro base in this deck isn't necessarily meant to put up a clock like Threshold. It's designed to handle early game aggro assaults without slow board sweepers like Pernicious Deeds will providing an alternate win condition if the Psychatog plan fails. It also helps push a tiny bit of damage through so Psychatog can go lethal sooner, and it actually does increase the decks clock against combo significantly.

The creatures aren't protected by as many counters as Threshold but Genesis recurs them. If my aggro doesn't seal the deal for me, Psychatog comes down as a combo finish.

The deck stills controls the lategame just like other versions of Psychatog, it just doesn't use Pernicious Deeds to do it. Instead, it uses Stinkweed Imp, Cabal Pit, Darkblast, and the aggro creatures themselves (especially with Genesis) to control the late game vs aggro. Against combo there shouldn't be a late game. Against control, the combo finish of Psychatog backed by countermagic should work. Against aggro/control, the additional threats help to overrun the opponent before they can stabilize.

So basically, I don't really think the deck lacks focus by opting for a more aggro-oriented approach. What I think it does is give the deck greater flexibility, switching gears to accomodate the deck it's playing against and/or depending on the game's state. The fact that deck runs such a powerful draw package with Loam/Sandbar and Brainstorm/AK/Intuition should typically allow it to draw into what it needs.

I'm not saying that the more aggro-oriented approach is necessarily better than the more common versions but I think that it definitely has potential. I'm glad to hear your responses on it though, it may turn out to be a flop during testing.

[Brushwagg]

Gush is awful when it costs 3 mana.

LOL ok... pay 3 mana to get four cards in hand. Plus you get another creature to help block if need be or soak up an edict effect. Plus this guy as a 4 of is better then AK and Intuition which takes up 7-8 slots in your deck to nothing else.