[Deck] BGu Dredge Rock

[Negator131]

This is a deck that I've been tuning for some time. It's done well on a local level, with one exception. However, before we go there, a decklist and card choice explanation:

BGu Dredge Rock

3 Polluted Delta
3 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Tranquil Thicket
2 Barren Moor
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
1 Cabal Pit

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Wall of Blossoms
3 Eternal Witness
2 Psychatog
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 Plague Spitter
1 Spike Feeder
1 Wonder
1 Genesis

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Darkblast
1 Unearth
4 Life from the Loam
4 Zombie Infestation

The Engine
4 Life from the Loam
3 Darkblast
2 Stinkweed Imp
4 Wall of Blossoms
4 Tranquil Thicket
2 Barren Moor

The backbone of the deck. Life from the Loam garners card advantage, Darkblast shuts down Goblin Lackey and company, and Stinkweed Imp dredges for five and significantly slows large attackers; Exalted Angel, Psychatog, etc. The draw allows easy recursion of all three of these vital cards, also allowing for large, fast Dredges.

The Aggro
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Zombie Infestation
2 Psychatog
1 Wonder

The kill. Mongoose plays double duty by both going for the throat in the mid-late game and stopping Goblin Lackey in his tracks on turn 1. 'Goose also combines with the recursive engine to overwhelm Control in the late-game. Zombie Infestation allows me to gum up the ground very effectively, especially in conjunction with Life from the Loam. Psychatog allows me to Just Win, rather than dicking around with Dredge all game. Wonder gives all my men evasion, durf durf.

The Recursion
3 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis
1 Unearth
1 Volrath's Stronghold

A very important aspect of the deck, though it doesn't take up very many slots. These cards together form both a slow, grinding advantage engine against Control and a nimble wall of protection against Aggro, as they serve dual purposes. Genesis allows recursion of threats like Nimble Mongoose against board control, and Unearth's combination with Eternal Witnesses allows me to play 3 2/1 blockers every turn for a simple investment of BBB. Also, Unearth allows for the inclusion of a creature toolbox, shown below.

The Toolbox
1 Spike Feeder
1 Plague Spitter
1 Cabal Pit
1 Wasteland

Spike Feeder and Plague Spitter are also in the deck to combat aggro. Plague Spitter was Bone Shredder until recently, as it has more synergy with the deck at large (Echo) and with the Unearth-Eternal Witness plan. However, Plague Spitter gets the nod for now as a hoser to Goblins. Spike Feeder is good against all manner of decks, especially Burn.

The Disruption
4 Cabal Therapy

Indispensible, in my opinion. Highly synergistic with the deck, and useful in almost every matchup.

Now, the main question I'm sure many of you are asking: why is this deck better than a Friggorid port? The major reason, in my experience, is that it can play both Aggro and Control roles. If a deck out-aggros Friggorid, it just loses, whereas this deck can play off its back foot and eventually build up card and board advantage to win the game.

Also, you may be asking, what about graveyard hate? This deck, though it may not look it, is resiliant to almost all forms of graveyard hate. With smart play, you can play around cards like Tormod's Crypt, and just flat-out race cards like Phyrexian Furnace. The only graveyard hate that actually matters against you is Withered Wretch. Pithing Needles are in the board almost 100% for that card. Nothing is scarier against this deck than a resolved Withered Wretch, frankly. It can be played around via double-Darkblast action, but it's still a pain.

I'll spare you a matchup analysis, as with home-brewed decks, they're almost always biased. I *can*, however, tell you that my worst common matchup is almost unquestionably Goblins (Solidarity has been tested as absolutely unwinnable, but exactly one person in my meta has ever played the deck). This deck can trade 1-for-1 with almost any of Threshold's large men (gangblock Werebear with a Threshed Nimble Mongoose and a Zombie), and can just overrun BW Confidant's disruption (Duress me first turn? Sure, I'll discard Life from the Loam). However, a smart Goblins player can simply wait to attack and overrun me with Kiki-Jiki'd Piledrivers and Siege-Gang Commanders. However, the Plague Spitter *is* a new addition, so I'm hoping that its presence will help the matchup. On the plus side, this deck steamrolls just about any iteration of board control, including Rifter, and beats Threshold and random things like the pseudo-Rock Mirror over 50% of the time.

Thoughts?

[Warmonger]

Splashing blue just for an overkill? It doesn't sound good for me.

Also, Infestations seem not to have any support.

You play a Rock without Deeds? It's the key card able to handle on it's own half of possible decks.

[Hanni]

If Goblins is a tough matchup for you, I would recommend boarding Engineered Plagues.

If Solidarity is a tough matchup for you, I would recommend boarding Duress.

[Negator131]

@Warmonger
The blue splash/Psychatog isn't really for an 'overkill' per se, it's for a quicker kill. I could just eventually draw it out with things like recurring Zombie tokens and Eternal Witnesses, but 'Tog is so much faster.

Also, Life from the Loam + Zombie Infestation is the basis for almost the entire deck. All the 'support' Infestation needs is in Life from the Loam.

I tested Deeds, but they were really slow in a deck with no mana acceleration, and usually required a Witness to retrieve from the graveyard, often with a Genesis activation, at a total cost of 4GGGGBX.

@Hanni
I'm not sure about the Goblins matchup with these changes, though Engineered Plagues would certainly help. Is there anything else that might help which would be more synergistic with the Dredge plan?

Duresses just weren't enough in testing, simply because this deck's gameplan involves Dredging away much of its library. Like I said, I'm not terribly worried about it as a matchup, as literally no one plays it in my meta.

[Blair Phoenix]

@Warmonger
The blue splash/Psychatog isn't really for an 'overkill' per se, it's for a quicker kill. I could just eventually draw it out with things like recurring Zombie tokens and Eternal Witnesses, but 'Tog is so much faster.

Also, Life from the Loam + Zombie Infestation is the basis for almost the entire deck. All the 'support' Infestation needs is in Life from the Loam.

I tested Deeds, but they were really slow in a deck with no mana acceleration, and usually required a Witness to retrieve from the graveyard, often with a Genesis activation, at a total cost of 4GGGGBX.

@Hanni
I'm not sure about the Goblins matchup with these changes, though Engineered Plagues would certainly help. Is there anything else that might help which would be more synergistic with the Dredge plan?

Duresses just weren't enough in testing, simply because this deck's gameplan involves Dredging away much of its library. Like I said, I'm not terribly worried about it as a matchup, as literally no one plays it in my meta.

But is Tog really worth it? It's the only reason you're playing blue(Besides Wonder, which you should never really end up "playing" anyways)I'm sure you could find a decent replacement within your colors, that won't stretch your mana base and make you more succeptible to Wasteland.

[Goblin Snowman]

No Grave-Shell Scrab? That guy needs a home, and since he is incredibly slow, he is pro Removal/Counters, and trades with all of NQG's stuff. Just a thought, as a singleton.

[Brushwagg]

@Zombie Infestion:Have you test 1x Squee and 1x Krovikan Horror? These 2 atleast give you 1 dude a turn.

Yes, where is the Scarab??? He returns to your hand pretty cheap, by himself and he's a 4/4.

[Negator131]

Grave-Shell Scarab is just too slow. He costs 5 mana to drop, 6 mana to drop and protect. He's mostly good against midrange controllish decks, which this already thrashes.

I used to run Squees, but they were just so dead without Infestation. The swap that I made to get to this list was actually -3 Squee -1 Random Card +4 Nimble Mongoose. If you can find something that fits better in that slot than the 'Goose, by all means. But until then, I think it's going to stay.

@BlairPhoenix: As far as I'm concerned, 'Tog + Wonder is worth the blue splash. What else breaks a ground stall as well against decks like Goblins that clog the board? What else alpha strikes as well in those same matchups?

[Hanni]

Duresses just weren't enough in testing, simply because this deck's gameplan involves Dredging away much of its library

Nostalgic Dreams? I've seen a list like yours before, except it had mostly control elements and the win condition was Mishra's Factory or Nantuko Monastery or something. They ran 4 Nostalgic Dreams. Your list may run far less control elements, opting for a more aggressive plan, but Nostalgic Dreams still seems like it would be amazing in your deck.

[nightshade81]

Have you ever considered living wish?

The one copy of Plague Spitter and Spike Feeder seem so random. If you play wish you get what you what when you want it.

-1 Plague Spitter
-1 Spike Feeder
-1 Wonder
-1 Genesis

+ 4 Living Wish

Wish SB
1 Plague Spitter
1 Spike Feeder
1 Wonder
1 Genesis
1 Squee
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Eternal Witness
+ anything else you want (utility)

Also have you considered Sylvan Library?

Its synergy with dredge is ridiculous. For those who don't know you can dredge off one of the draws you get form library (or both) and still keep one of the two other cards you drew this turn with out life loss. Dredging three cards in one turn is hot too. Card advantage + card quality cannot be over looked.

[Negator131]

Nostalgic Dreams would be powerful, but a counter-magnet, and not something particularly helpful against bad matchups (Solidarity).

@Living Wish: The deck doesn't need more utility, I don't think. The deck basically already runs Living Wish, except the toolbox is maindecked at a savings of 1G whenever you want to cast any of those cards. I'm looking for something to gain more tempo and board presence in the deck, not give up more yet more tempo for more utility.

The major problem against Goblins is that Goblins can simply force a board stall, establish a stronger position and win through my blockers, no matter how many I throw down. Plague Spitter, either hardcast, recurred with Genesis or cheated into play via Unearth should help this problem, but does anyone have any other suggestions? I also have Wonder and Psychatog in the deck for the purpose of circumventing this situation. For a while I tested a red splash for Anger and Pyroclasm as well, but this was disastrous, as all the versions of Goblins in my area run 1x Maindeck Goblin King (ouch).

[nitewolf9]

For a while I tested a red splash for Anger and Pyroclasm as well, but this was disastrous, as all the versions of Goblins in my area run 1x Maindeck Goblin King (ouch).

I fail to understand how 1 maindeck goblin king thwarts pyroclasm. The king dies to the clasm, then the rest of the goblins die from the clasm damage because they have 2 toughness again.

But yeah, red doesn't seem to fit here. Anger is not nearly as good as wonder for you. But if you're going to go the tog route, you might as well play dredge-a-tog.

Cut the blue splash and play a less graveyard dependent finisher. Gigapede comes to mind and might be great with all the dredge. Maybe even play a single copy of brawn, and squeeze wild mongrel in there as well (great with loam, and even better with trample). I would probably cut zombie infestation for mongrel.

I duno, just throwing out some ideas.

[Negator131]

The logic on Pyroclasm is a little counterintuitive, granted, but I'll give it a whirl.

King didn't thwart Pyroclasm by making their Goblins unkillable, obviously. Pyroclasm was good at killing Goblins.

Unfortunately, Pyroclasm is very difficult to draw in this deck, because you spend so many draws Dredging. Basically, Pyroclasm was getting blown early for 1R and 3-to-1ish advantage (not exactly game-breaking in the face of Goblin Ringleader), or late as a larger advantage for something to the tune of 4GGGR (Genesis recurs Witness recurs Pyroclasm, cast Pyroclasm). Not exactly efficient.

Meanwhile, while I was setting up 4GGGR, I still had the problem of keeping myself alive against Goblins, which made it tough to find that much extra mana, especially to find 2G which did essentially nothing. In the meantime, Goblins just builds up an army, drops Goblin King and makes all my hard work to stabilize the board worthless, as their Goblins have Mountainwalk at that point. They kill me in one turn, and fundamentally turn the tide of the matchup, because I'm playing Mountains too, because of Pyroclasm.

Ergo: Pyroclasm is bad against Goblins in this deck.

You say that if I'm running the blue splash, I might as well play Dredge-a-Tog. I've tried that deck, and honestly, it was quite bad. Yes, all iterations. Yes, with Mongoose and Meloku and Mox Diamond and Exploration and multiple Loams and every other configuration in forums on many different websites. It couldn't establish tempo at all (the best was the build with Mongeese and Mox Diamonds, but that was still pretty iffy) and just got blown out by fast creatures or AEther Vial, something that Legacy as a format is rife with. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that deck hasn't exactly put up huge numbers recently either.

Gigapede is super-slow, and good against control. Things which are slow and good against control are still not what I'm looking for.

I don't like Brawn either with or without Mongrel, as it's too narrow, and too bad a topdeck on its own.

Mongrel, on the other hand, has some merits. He's a fast beater, and strong in aggro matchups. I used to play him as a one-of, which was good for random Entomb synergy. I'll bite and try to get him in here as a 3-4 of. I think Infestation is still worth running, though 4 Infestation 4 Mongrel 2 Psychatog is a lot of discarding cards. I'll probably run these changes:

-1 Zombie Infestation
-1 Spike Feeder
-1 Other Card

+3 Wild Mongrel

For a final list of

3 Polluted Delta
3 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Tranquil Thicket
2 Barren Moor
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
1 Cabal Pit

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Wall of Blossoms
3 Wild Mongrel
3 Eternal Witness
2 Psychatog
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 Plague Spitter
1 Wonder
1 Genesis

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Darkblast
1 Unearth
4 Life from the Loam
3 Zombie Infestation

The suggestion that Spike Feeder was random is absolutely true. It's again in here for the aggro matchup, but given the choice of reanimating a 2/2 for 3 that does nothing to the board or a 2/2 for 3 that does something to the board, I'll take the latter.

That list needs one cut, as 61 is even more horrible in this deck than it is elsewhere. Thoughts? I need to test to find the optimal configuration of Mongrels to Infestations, as I think they're somewhat interchangeable, but I want more than four.

EDIT: Actually, that list is 60.

Also, what do you guys think of Madness creatures in here? The deck is coming up on eight Madness outlets, and stuff like Basking Rootwalla, Arrogant Wurm and even possibly Nightshade Assassin seem reasonable. Thoughts?

[Solpugid]

I've been playing a deck very much like this lately, though casually so it doesn't need to be as streamlined. The deck actually runs as a creature and land toolbox, with life from the loam, genesis, volrath's stronghold, and oversold cemetery for recursive purposes.

That last card is actually the card I might suggest. It warps the deck a tad, making reusable creatures (boneshredder, ravenous baloth, etc.) very powerful. So keep cemetery in mind, as it does some rediculous things with no mana investments each turn.

As for gobbo kill...gloomdrifter? It's very inefficient and requires threshold, but doesn't kill your guys and doesn't kill you like spitter does.

[Negator131]

Oversold Cemetery does seem pretty reasonable, though I'd probably rather play Pit Keeper than Cemetery, as it's randomly a 2/1 body and has the same basic synergy with the deck. For reference:

Pit Keeper 1B
Creature - Human Wizard
When Pit Keeper comes into play, if you have four or more creature cards in your graveyard, you may return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
2/1

Also, this is better with Cabal Therapy, and you get the card back right away, allowing you to set up a chain on the turn you cast it. For the record, I really do think this card is worth considering, though it'll take some serious thought to see where it would fit in, if indeed it would fit at all.

Gloomdrifter is probably too expensive. The lone Unearth is secretly really important in this deck; it opens up a lot of stupid plays that just aren't possible without it. Often, the deck plays almost like a deck strictly built around Unearth. I'd like things that are synergistic with it because most of the time, without randomly drawing the Gloomdrifter, it costs 4GBB. I've cut cards a lot stronger than Gloomdrifter for negative tempo swings like that, though they obviously weren't so negative as that.

Keep the opinions coming!