[Deck] CounterSliver 2.0 (MeatHooks.dec)

[Pinder]

I think the reason that there's such a difference in opinion is because Goaswerfraiejen thinks that 'Absorb 1' means 'if damage would be dealt to a Sliver, prevent one of that damage', and therefore, if there was a sliver that granted Absorb 1 to all slivers, it would essentially prevent damage to each sliver equal to the number of slivers in play. This is of course, ridiculous, for a couple of reasons:

1) Wizards is not printing a keyword ability for an entire block that only narrowly affects a single creature type. That's stupid.
2) It would be absurdly broken, to the point where the sliver would have to cost 9+ mana to be even remotely balanced (well, I might be exaggerating, but you see my point).

Now, Nihil believes (correctly, IMO) that 'Absorb 1' simply means 'if this creature would be dealt damage, prevent one of that damage'. It will likely appear on non-sliver creatures. Thus, giving all slivers 'Absorb 1' would only prevent one damage to a sliver from each source, not '1 damage for each other sliver in play', objectively making roughly as effective as Plated (better in some situations, worse in others).

And it isn't even confirmed yet anyway.

Hope this clears things up.

edit: Seems Nihil beat me to it.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Ok, there was just a bit of miscommunication. I, unlike you, was assuming that "Absorb 1" means "If a source would deal damage to this, prevent 1 of that damage" - I think it would be kinda silly if they made a keyword that only worked for Slivers.

Definitely silly, but that's how it's currently worded in the post on mtgsalvation (and yeah, thankfully, that's subject to change--I'm just working from the information that we have at present). I agree that that's more likely, or one of the other two options that I outlined.


So... back to Countersliver? :wink:

[kicks_422]

Stifles can be dead and aren't a threat, though.

True. But if we were talking about a combo-infested metagame, we already have enough threats even w/o Mage.


Why is powering through with bigger Slivers such a bad strategy? The only time that's unfeasible (and the fat doesn't fly) is against Goblins.
In other words: what decks other than Goblins is Winged Sliver good against?

Against every other aggro or aggro-control deck, actually. Remember that every competitive aggro deck (or at least semi-competitive) has at least some way to recover or has some reach (Angels and equipped Priests for AS, Burn for Sligh-ish decks, Engineered Explosives for Thresh [if they board them], Survival of the Fittest for Survival, etc.). Powering through their creatures actually buys them time. Compare this with a Winged Sliver that you cast and makes you win instantly. Granted that this deck has counters, but they're not always there since the deck has less draw than Thresh to find these counters.

Flying also has the other benefits, such as getting around Moat, taking down big fliers, and surviving Flamebreak, but those aren't my main points... Just throwing them out. :tongue:

[Solpugid]

Being an avid threshold player, let me just say that I see one great way to win against Meathooks: swing three times with mystic enforcer. The ground is likely to be clogged by big critters, and that allows the 6/6 to fly for the win. Now, what stops that plan? Winged sliver. If I fail to counter it, I might as well concede (stupid crystalline).

Why did wonder show up in every UG madness build, despite having huge creatures? Because mass evasion wins games. DO NOT EVER drop below 2 winged sliver maindeck. EVER!

That is all.

[Nihil Credo]

Kicks and Solpugid bring up good points. It's worth noting, however, that by the time a ground stall is reached, I generally have the extra mana to play Eladamri's Call, so it's not like I'm hoping to randomly draw into the Winged Sliver.

PS: After some more testing, I gave up on Worldly Tutor. Yes, I know nobody liked it anyway, but since I brought it up I thought I should also mention that :)

[kicks_422]

If you still are running Eladamri's Call, then run 2 Winged Slivers. I used to run a single EC with a creature base of 4 Plated, 4 Muscle, 4 Sinew, 4 Crystalline, 2 Winged, and 1 Harmonic...

I dropped it because as Volt and many others have mentioned, it's tempo loss in a deck that arguably utilizes tempo the best.

[Volt]

Just to let you all know... This thread is about to be officially retired. The new (and vastly improved) primer is ready and will be posted in the morning. There will also be a new decklist, but don't expect any earth-shattering tech or anything like that. Just a few tweaks.


UPDATE: Okay, the new primer is up. This thread will be discontinued in some fashion, once Zilla gets around to it. The new MeatHooks thread is here (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5500).

[kicks_422]

The deck has performed very well over at magic-league.com... You might want to check that out if you haven't... :tongue:

[evilone]

Hey, just letting you know having to do with FS.
Posion Sliver
G
all slivers have poison 1 (whenever a sliver deals combat damage damage to a player, that player gets a poison counter. Whenver a player has 10 poison counters, that player loses the game)
1/1

Just wondering,
Is there a place for this? it seems better compared to some of the slivers from Time Spiral Block so far.

[largebrandon]

Hey, just letting you know having to do with FS.
Posion Sliver
G
all slivers have poison 1 (whenever a sliver deals combat damage damage to a player, that player gets a poison counter. Whenver a player has 10 poison counters, that player loses the game)
1/1

Just wondering,
Is there a place for this? it seems better compared to some of the slivers from Time Spiral Block so far.

Nah, I'd say no. There are better slivers that pump them up or give them protection and evasion abilities that poison isn't needed.

[Maverick676]

There isn't really a place for this sliver in the deck. Once you have enough slivers to swing for a win with poison you already have enought to swing for a win anyway. The main function of slivers in this deck is to make slivers more powerful, this guy really adds nothing truly useful to other slivers. If we needed a one drop he could be considered, but plated just outclasses this guy in terms of power.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Hey, just letting you know having to do with FS.
Posion Sliver
G
all slivers have poison 1 (whenever a sliver deals combat damage damage to a player, that player gets a poison counter. Whenver a player has 10 poison counters, that player loses the game)
1/1

Just wondering,
Is there a place for this? it seems better compared to some of the slivers from Time Spiral Block so far.

I think that SLivercycling is MUCH more interesting--but there's not really any room for it in the deck. :(

The problem with Poison has always been that it's usually attached to a creature with about 2 power that needs to get through--meaning that you need to hit ten times, which translates to 20 damage. =/

But yeah, there's not much room for this sliver, nice as it would be.

[Peter_Rotten]

Counter-Sliver (Meat Hooks) discussion may continue here. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5500)