[Deck] Shop Aggro A.K.A Su-chi Stax

[Ta Jugs]

[LEFT]I like to start off by saying this deck deserves more credit than it gets. Ever since one of the people here top 8'ed Kadishacks tournament Ive been interested in it.

Well here's the list I play

Lands
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Wasteland
2x Crystal Vein

Creatures
4x Juggernaut
4x Su-chi
4x Synod Centurion
2x Triskelion

Other
3x Crucible of Worlds
4x Mox Diamond
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinishere
4x Tangle Wire
3x Smokestack
3x Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard:
3x Pithing Needle
3x Defense Grid
1x Triskelion
2x Duplicant
3x Powder Keg
3x Leonin Bladetrap

Card Choices:

Triskelion: Very good in the angel stompy and goblin matchup.

Chalice: Stops combo and fish.

Trinishrere: Very good against combo and slows many deck in the format down.

Tangle Wire: Almost always taps your opponent out on turn one and usually comes close the second time around.

Crucible: Brings back man lands and wasteland.

Mox Diamond: Gives the deck a mana accelerant.

Smokestack: Some people just can't play around this card an is very helpful in the threshold matchup.

Board:

Pithing Needle: Helps in the goblins matchup.

Defense Grid: Just another card against combo, sometimes thresh.

Duplicant: Removes guys like Exalted Angel, Mystic Enforcer, Fledgling Dragon, and Faerie Stompy creatures from time to time.

Powder Keg: Destroys Threshold creatures easily.

Leonin Bladetrap: Pyrocalsm at instant speed for 5. Closest thing I could find that is very good against Goblins.


Matchups:

Goblins:70-30 them.
This is a very hard matchup for you as they can kill you around turn 4 and you start playing guys around turn 3. Calice helps in this matchup.

Threshold: 70- 30 you.
There are so many cards that threshold cannot play around in this matchup such as Trinishere, Chalice, Smokestack,Tangle wire, and Powder Keg in the sideboard.

Solidarity: 80-20 you.
Once again there are so many cards this deck can't deal with. Trinishere, Chalice, and Defense Grid in the board.

Deadguy, Trainwreck, and Red Death: Not sure yet maybe 60-40 you.
Both decks have cards each other can't deal with. My assumption is from the slight testing I did aganist Red Death not sure though.

Comments?

[xsockmonkeyx]

One quick comment, Crystal Vein > Citadel. I usually play 3 of in a deck like this. They come in quite handy as double lands 9-11 for turn one chalice.

[kicks_422]

Here's the build I run...

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Crystal Vein

4 Phyrexian War-Beast
4 Synod Centurion
4 Su-Chi
2 Razormane Masticore

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Tangle Wire
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Crucible of Worlds

SB
4 Defense Grid
3 Caltrops
3 Duplicant
5 ???

Why play Smokestack MD? If you want to take this to an aggro route, I think Stack is a pretty slow and sub-par card...

BTW, you can't call this Shop Aggro as there's no Mishra's Workshop... This is just good 'ol 5/3... Without the 5/3... :tongue:

There's already a thread for this, I believe?...

[Ta Jugs]

Smokestack might be too slow, I guess I'll do some more testing. What else can you call this deck and why don't you play Jugs. I dont think there is another thread for this unless I missed it.

[kicks_422]

Lack of Juggernauts is just my preference for now, as I've been hampered by their "drawbacK" (attacking every turn)... My creature configuration is usually this:

4 WarBeast
4 Centurion
4 Juggernaut
2 Su-Chi

I'm just trying out the Razormanes for a while... :tongue:

Here's the thread for the deck...
http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3070

[Ta Jugs]

Yea this is kind of stupid having 2 of basically the exact same thread on the exact same forum. Why can't this deck be in the Open Legacy Discussion.

[xsockmonkeyx]

@ Jugs: Why arent you playing War-Beast? The guy is the absolute tits in brown aggro.

[Ta Jugs]

@ Jugs: Why arent you playing War-Beast? The guy is the absolute tits in brown aggro.I discovered while playing this deck in Roanoke that if that guy gets swords on turn 1 or 2 or naturalized or something you lose the game automatically. Its how I lost 2 games with no lands.

[dre4m]

I discovered while playing this deck in Roanoke that if that guy gets swords on turn 1 or 2 or naturalized or something you lose the game automatically. Its how I lost 2 games with no lands.

This is why you play crucible first, especially against a deck from which you might expect this response. Beleive it or not, your opponent will not always have swords for this guy on turn two, and Naturalize won't be a worry until after board, so the Warbeast is, in fact, "the absolute tits."

[Jander78]

Lack of Juggernauts is just my preference for now, as I've been hampered by their "drawbacK" (attacking every turn)...
I fail to see how being forced to attack with a creature every turn is a significant draw back in a deck designed to do exactly that. Juggernaut comes down quick and does a lot of damage quick.


This is why you play crucible first, especially against a deck from which you might expect this response. Beleive it or not, your opponent will not always have swords for this guy on turn two, and Naturalize won't be a worry until after board, so the Warbeast is, in fact, "the absolute tits."

Relying on Crucible to play a creature is very inefficient. The main reason to run Warbeast is the fact that he easily comes down on turn 1-2 in this deck. Holding out for a support card defeats the purpose of running it.

On a side note, I have stayed away from running Warbeast as the card has been a liability in many cases. Swords, Naturalize, Burn, or god forbid Echoing Truth, can all turn good board position into the extreme opposite.

[Tacosnape]

I've been testing this deck for over a year now. Constantly. It's my pride and joy. So here's what I've learned.

The deck is slow. Speed it up and it wins more games than you can possibly imagine.

Creatures:
Juggernaut and Su-Chi are the nuts. Phyrexian War Beast isn't. The drawback is too severe if you don't have ways to cope with it constantly. My other creatures have been Arcbound Ravager and Cathodion. Cathodion has worked well as a second Su-Chi due to the eight manlands the deck runs. Triskelion is too expensive. Razormane Masticore's pretty good, but can be tricky to back up in a deck that doesn't make a habit of holding back any cards.
(What I run: 4 Juggernaut, 4 Su-Chi, 4 Cathodion, 4 Ravager)

Stax pieces: I don't maindeck Trinisphere. Why? Because outside of that dream turn one Trinisphere, it's awful in most matches. And because I run Ravager and Jitte. Trinisphere lives in my sideboard, as does Smokestack. Chalice of the Void, Tangle Wire, and Crucible of Worlds tend to do the trick. For equipment, I run Umezawa's Jitte over Sword of Fire and Ice. It's better against more things. It's also cheaper.
(What I run: 4 Tangle Wire, 4 Chalice of the Void, 4 Crucible of Worlds, 4 Umezawa's Jitte)

Mana:
I can't stress this enough. Run 24 lands and 4 Mox Diamonds. Even with the crucibles. You'll never be too mana flooded to function, between 8 manlands, wastelands, and rishadan ports. You'll be amazed how easily this deck flows once you've removed your chances of getting mana screwed. Gemstone Caverns will be a nice addition if you want to cut a port and/or a nexus, but don't run more than two.

(What I run: 4 Mishra's, 4 Nexus, 4 Wasteland, 3 Port, 4 Tomb, 4 City, 1 Gemstone Caverns, 4 Mox Diamond)

Sideboard:
Sideboarding has been the toughest part of this deck for me. Obviously I keep my four Trinispheres handy to wreck combo decks, along with 4 Tormod's Crypt and 3 Winter Orb. The other four slots have been rotated between Sword of Fire and Ice to improve the Goblins match, Pithing Needle versus Survival and random other things, and Smokestack against Control and High Tide. Here were my observations.

1. Sword of Fire and Ice doesn't always save you in the goblin matchup. Pyrokinesis slaughters you, as does Tin-Street Hooligan, as does STP if you aren't packing a Chalice. Goblins stays slightly unfavorable even with the SOFI's maindecked, and more so with them in board. If you want the Goblin Match to work better, Razormane Masticore should be in your creature rotation.

2. Caltrops isn't any better against goblins. In fact, it's worse.

3. Pithing Needle runs into the constant problem of interfering with Chalice for 1. It's great otherwise.

4. Tormod's Crypt is a godsend. Even when you don't have to use it, it still allows you to drop Penalty-free Tangle Wires very quickly.

5. Defense Grid doesn't -quite- do enough to warrant being played. It helps against Blue-based aggro-control, Landstill, and Solidarity. Without it, you should slaughter Landstill. You should beat all blue-based aggro control and Solidarity more often than not.

Anyway, there's my five cents.

[Goblin Snowman]

Have you really had good results with Crucible? How is Crucible better, with the exception of Wastelock? You don't even run Warbeast, another reason not to run Cruc. Jitte is not better than SOF&I. Sword gives +2/+2. If it didn't, than Jitte would be better, but the ability to hit for (basicly) 4 and cantrip the turn it is cast makes it better in my mind.

I get myself down to about 10 life off of Tomb anyway, why would I run a boltable creature that causes a Lava Spike on death over a 3/4 that rarely dies? I agree that if you run Ravager and Sui-Chi, you might as well run Cathodion, but I would not run any of those creatures. Do you think that only 12 creatures is enough? I would try to fit in 3-4 more. Just me.

Ravager slows the deck up even more than a few other creatures.

Boarding - I'm going to disagree with you on the Goblins MU. Ok, Pyrokenisis is bad for you, as is TSH (run in only a few builds due to lack of G splash), and Swords is bad for any deck that wins off of a few fatties. If you get a creature out there, even a Factory, and start beating for 4 and killing a Goblin a turn, you shouldn't have a problem.
Also, on Crypt - You shouldn't have a problem beating Thres, do you think 4 is needed?

@Everything else - Pretty much in agreement.