valor
10-23-2006, 08:51 PM
This started out as something like the U/W/b Fish in proven but I made a couple changes. Explanations at the end:
Land: 19
4 Tundra
6 Fetch (Both blue ones get all the land, but probably 3/3 for Needle)
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory (Probably needs to go down to 3 for another Island)
1 Island (I'm the only one here that runs Wastes somehow)
Creatures: 15
4 Meddling Mage
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Mother of Runes
2 Serra Avenger
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
Control: 16
4 FoW (26 blue if you dont want to count)
2 Counterspell
3 Daze
3 Stifle (Sick mana denial esp. w/ Wastes)
4 Swords to Plowshares
Other Spells: 10
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard:
2-3 Serenity (Affinity kid scoops to this every time lol)
2 Pithing Needle
1 Stifle
3 Icatian Javelineers (Replaces Mom vs. Stax)
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Exalted Angel (Vs. Control can open up the game but probably shouldnt be here but I want to use one lol)
2-3 Armageddon/Echoing Truth/Worship/Tivadar's Crusade
Card Choices:
Mana Base:
I know that someones gonna say it looks atrocious and thats because it does. First thing I would probably do is trade an island for a Factory. Lack of basics is because somehow no one plays Wastes (until now at least lol)
Creatures:
Mom: Best blocker ever, also has synergy with the entire deck and format, works great with Meddling Mage, Ninja (unblockable). Sucks in multiples though, hence 3
Ninja: Card advantage. Works pretty well with Factories and Mom. 4 was just overkill and I never would have much rather had the Counters of whatever came in for him.
Serra Avenger: It was either this or Serendib Efreet, but on 4th turn when it comes down I'd rather drop this and have either Jitte or Counter mana rather than only having 1 open (at lot of the deck is at 2 mana)
Meddling Mage: Self explanatory 4 of.
Jotun Grunt: A lot of stuff gets in the graves with this deck, plus he helps out with probably 90% of the matches with his ability anyway. Makes this deck imo, but only 3 because you never want 2 out.
Control:
StP: Kills just about every deck.
FoW/Daze/Counterspell: the 4/3/2 setup has been proven over and over, and I found it worked best for my needs as well. 26 blue for FoW is more than enough to reliably cast it, especially with Brainstorm.
Stifle: Mana Denial along with Wastes can be a real dick, saves my ass countless times. Once I Stifled the lifegain on an Exatled ftw. True story lol.
Brainstorm/Serum Visions: Brainstorm + Fetches is self explanatory, Serum Visions lets you go with the low land and low colored mana count more reliably.
Jitte: GG
Sideboard:
Serenity: This one kid refuses to play anything but Affinity and his face when he reads this makes this deck worth playing.
Needle: Moving on
Stifle: Cant get more Needles lol.
Explosives: Although its not 3 colors, I never used it at 3 anyway. Pretty solid card.
Javelineers: A lot of deck here run of 1/1 guys with cool abilities. Welder, Goblins although I dont see them too much (I know I'm lucky, Sharpshooter, even BoP, Bob, etc)
Angel: This game is about fun too, no? lol
Geddon/Crusade/Echoing Truth/Worship/Jitte: I'm still up in the air on this. I doubt I need the truths, and I dont see Goblins but I'm still afraid of them, thus Crusade and Jitte. Well timed Geddons are pretty brutal. Worship+Mom=GG.
Other options:
Glowrider/True Believer - I probably have a good enough combo matchup to ignore it in the SB though.
Now the questions: Why is this better than Thresh/the black Fish:
Why is it better than thresh? It's not. I won the local Tournament with White thresh last week and I want something different, especially something that the grave hate doesnt hit hard. Also, it is build with a Wasteless, Goblinless meta in mind (how lucky am I lol). Biggest reason though: It has a lot of the strenghts of Thresh without sacrificing that much card quality, and doesnt die to Grunt/Crypt etc.
Why is it better than the Black build? Again this is a meta call. Personally these type of decks are exactly my thing. The black deck is awesome, don't get me wrong. Bob is amazing, but I personally dont feel its worth splashing for that and Duress (the combo match is fine anyway Duress isnt that necessary although it is cool w/ Mage). A big discussion on the other thread was about Wastes/Stifles or not. I feel that they go perfectly with this decks strategy. With the black splash, I felt that the mana base was stretched WAY too thin with them. Now sure they have more colored sources in that deck, but that was becasuae I included Factories which I feel are worth it. The double costed things are: Serra Avenger, Counterspel and a few boaded thingsl. Both I dont have to worry about until turn 3-4, which especialy with the cantrips, I should be albe to provide. (Daze, Stifle, Wastes and FoW can hold off until I get UU up). As for the things in the board, I will be playing the game completely different when I board them in, so again hitting the 2 Tundras in time will not be a problem. Dropping the Factory for an Island is probably a good idea though. With the 3 color deck you want U/W turn 1 (or with Duress U/B). By turn 2 and at latest 3 youll NEED U/W/B which imo was the decks big vulnerability.
Matchups:
I dont test against the normal gauntlet seeing as I dont see much of it, but I'd imagine its like this:
Gobbos: Probably kill me 1st game. A lot of board slots could be given to this matchup if its a prevalent deck.
Thresh: Similar strategies. We run Grunt, Jitte and Flyers. Probably fairly even.
Solidarity: I've never actually had to play against this deck but I'd imagine that with all the counters and Mage you could tear it a new asshole game 1 and hopefully postboard.
IGGy: See Solidarity.
Questions to answer:
1. Is the mana base good? Factory for Island swap? More colored sources/more/less land?
2. Creature base - Is it solid enough to support Nijnja/Jitte?
3. Does losing Duress hurt the combo matchup horribly? Is Mage/Counters enough?
4. How much better is Bob than Ninja? Is it a worthwhile tradeoff?
5. Is the overall synergy of the deck still intact?
6. How solid is the mana denial plan?
7. How can this be changed to fit your meta?
8. Why is this better/worse than the similar decks (Fish, thresh)
9. Something I havent seen (pretty likely)
I could keep going on and on, I love discussing these types of decks, but I'll post this now becasue I doubt anyone will read it
If you really want to know, yes I copy/pasted this from TMD but its an essay lol you want me to type it again?
Land: 19
4 Tundra
6 Fetch (Both blue ones get all the land, but probably 3/3 for Needle)
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory (Probably needs to go down to 3 for another Island)
1 Island (I'm the only one here that runs Wastes somehow)
Creatures: 15
4 Meddling Mage
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Mother of Runes
2 Serra Avenger
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
Control: 16
4 FoW (26 blue if you dont want to count)
2 Counterspell
3 Daze
3 Stifle (Sick mana denial esp. w/ Wastes)
4 Swords to Plowshares
Other Spells: 10
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard:
2-3 Serenity (Affinity kid scoops to this every time lol)
2 Pithing Needle
1 Stifle
3 Icatian Javelineers (Replaces Mom vs. Stax)
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Exalted Angel (Vs. Control can open up the game but probably shouldnt be here but I want to use one lol)
2-3 Armageddon/Echoing Truth/Worship/Tivadar's Crusade
Card Choices:
Mana Base:
I know that someones gonna say it looks atrocious and thats because it does. First thing I would probably do is trade an island for a Factory. Lack of basics is because somehow no one plays Wastes (until now at least lol)
Creatures:
Mom: Best blocker ever, also has synergy with the entire deck and format, works great with Meddling Mage, Ninja (unblockable). Sucks in multiples though, hence 3
Ninja: Card advantage. Works pretty well with Factories and Mom. 4 was just overkill and I never would have much rather had the Counters of whatever came in for him.
Serra Avenger: It was either this or Serendib Efreet, but on 4th turn when it comes down I'd rather drop this and have either Jitte or Counter mana rather than only having 1 open (at lot of the deck is at 2 mana)
Meddling Mage: Self explanatory 4 of.
Jotun Grunt: A lot of stuff gets in the graves with this deck, plus he helps out with probably 90% of the matches with his ability anyway. Makes this deck imo, but only 3 because you never want 2 out.
Control:
StP: Kills just about every deck.
FoW/Daze/Counterspell: the 4/3/2 setup has been proven over and over, and I found it worked best for my needs as well. 26 blue for FoW is more than enough to reliably cast it, especially with Brainstorm.
Stifle: Mana Denial along with Wastes can be a real dick, saves my ass countless times. Once I Stifled the lifegain on an Exatled ftw. True story lol.
Brainstorm/Serum Visions: Brainstorm + Fetches is self explanatory, Serum Visions lets you go with the low land and low colored mana count more reliably.
Jitte: GG
Sideboard:
Serenity: This one kid refuses to play anything but Affinity and his face when he reads this makes this deck worth playing.
Needle: Moving on
Stifle: Cant get more Needles lol.
Explosives: Although its not 3 colors, I never used it at 3 anyway. Pretty solid card.
Javelineers: A lot of deck here run of 1/1 guys with cool abilities. Welder, Goblins although I dont see them too much (I know I'm lucky, Sharpshooter, even BoP, Bob, etc)
Angel: This game is about fun too, no? lol
Geddon/Crusade/Echoing Truth/Worship/Jitte: I'm still up in the air on this. I doubt I need the truths, and I dont see Goblins but I'm still afraid of them, thus Crusade and Jitte. Well timed Geddons are pretty brutal. Worship+Mom=GG.
Other options:
Glowrider/True Believer - I probably have a good enough combo matchup to ignore it in the SB though.
Now the questions: Why is this better than Thresh/the black Fish:
Why is it better than thresh? It's not. I won the local Tournament with White thresh last week and I want something different, especially something that the grave hate doesnt hit hard. Also, it is build with a Wasteless, Goblinless meta in mind (how lucky am I lol). Biggest reason though: It has a lot of the strenghts of Thresh without sacrificing that much card quality, and doesnt die to Grunt/Crypt etc.
Why is it better than the Black build? Again this is a meta call. Personally these type of decks are exactly my thing. The black deck is awesome, don't get me wrong. Bob is amazing, but I personally dont feel its worth splashing for that and Duress (the combo match is fine anyway Duress isnt that necessary although it is cool w/ Mage). A big discussion on the other thread was about Wastes/Stifles or not. I feel that they go perfectly with this decks strategy. With the black splash, I felt that the mana base was stretched WAY too thin with them. Now sure they have more colored sources in that deck, but that was becasuae I included Factories which I feel are worth it. The double costed things are: Serra Avenger, Counterspel and a few boaded thingsl. Both I dont have to worry about until turn 3-4, which especialy with the cantrips, I should be albe to provide. (Daze, Stifle, Wastes and FoW can hold off until I get UU up). As for the things in the board, I will be playing the game completely different when I board them in, so again hitting the 2 Tundras in time will not be a problem. Dropping the Factory for an Island is probably a good idea though. With the 3 color deck you want U/W turn 1 (or with Duress U/B). By turn 2 and at latest 3 youll NEED U/W/B which imo was the decks big vulnerability.
Matchups:
I dont test against the normal gauntlet seeing as I dont see much of it, but I'd imagine its like this:
Gobbos: Probably kill me 1st game. A lot of board slots could be given to this matchup if its a prevalent deck.
Thresh: Similar strategies. We run Grunt, Jitte and Flyers. Probably fairly even.
Solidarity: I've never actually had to play against this deck but I'd imagine that with all the counters and Mage you could tear it a new asshole game 1 and hopefully postboard.
IGGy: See Solidarity.
Questions to answer:
1. Is the mana base good? Factory for Island swap? More colored sources/more/less land?
2. Creature base - Is it solid enough to support Nijnja/Jitte?
3. Does losing Duress hurt the combo matchup horribly? Is Mage/Counters enough?
4. How much better is Bob than Ninja? Is it a worthwhile tradeoff?
5. Is the overall synergy of the deck still intact?
6. How solid is the mana denial plan?
7. How can this be changed to fit your meta?
8. Why is this better/worse than the similar decks (Fish, thresh)
9. Something I havent seen (pretty likely)
I could keep going on and on, I love discussing these types of decks, but I'll post this now becasue I doubt anyone will read it
If you really want to know, yes I copy/pasted this from TMD but its an essay lol you want me to type it again?