[Deck] Burning Wake

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

I'm trying to build a burning wake deck.

This is my list:

Main deck:
4 tundra
4 tropical island
2 plateau
2 savannah
2 volcanic island
4 flooded strand
4 windswept heath

4 counterspell
4 force of will
2 mana leak
4 brainstorm
4 impulse
4 swords to plowshares
4 exlploration
3 mirari's wake
3 enlightened tutor
2 eternal dragon
2 exalted angel
3 burning wish
1 mobilization

Sideboard:
4 meddling mage
3 moment's peace
1 arcane laboratory
1 morning tide
1 wrath of god
1 decree of justice
1 crush of wurms
1 time strecht
1 nostalgic dreams
1 hull breach

I use 10 counters; 4 stp for creature removal; brainstorm and impulse for drawing, exploration for acceleration, enlightened tutor for fetching wake, mobilization and mirari; wake for mana producing; burning wish for getting wrath, decree or time strecht; mirari for copying sorceries; mobilisation, exalted angel and decree as win conditions.

What should i modify? I need help.

[Koby]

Where's the fireball/'XR' variant in the SB? Seems like a natural fit.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Ghitu fire is strictly better than fireball, and yes i'll use in SB. My draw engine isn't good, but what draw should i run?
Also I'm thinking about running regrowth.
What changes should i do in draw, counter and removal?

[quicksilver]

Ghitu fire is strictly better than fireball, and yes i'll use in SB. It is not strictly better. Fireball can hit multiple targets where ghitu fire cannot. Ghitu Fire is generally considered one of the worst X burn spells, perhaps you should run Demon Fire or Kaervek's Torch instead.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Sorry, I confused fireball with blaze, so I'll run demonfire or kaervek's torch.
As i said, my drawing engine isn't very good, so you can give me ideas to improve it.

[Cavius The Great]

Tithe is good with Brainstorm as a decent draw engine. It's probably so overlooked that I'm thinking of coming out with a "patent" for the combo. :wink: But seriously, You basically Tithe then replace the excess land with business spells after casting a Brainstorm. The beauty of Tithe is that you can basically run less land without hindering the deck much. It's probably something you should consider.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Here's my new list:

Main deck:
4 tundra
4 tropical island
2 plateau
2 savannah
2 volcanic island
4 flooded strand
4 windswept heath

4 counterspell
4 force of will
2 mana leak
4 brainstorm
3 fact or fiction
4 swords to plowshares
4 exlploration
3 mirari's wake
3 enlightened tutor
2 eternal dragon
3 eternal witness
3 burning wish
1 mobilization

Sideboard:
4 meddling mage
2 exalted angel
1 Kaervek's torch / demonfire (i don't know which's better)
1 arcane laboratory
1 morning tide
1 wrath of god
1 decree of justice
1 crush of wurms
1 time strecht
1 nostalgic dreams
1 hull breach

I replaced impulse with fact or fiction, i put 3 eternal witnesses and replaced the moment's peace with exalted angels.
Really i suck at building draw engines, so what should i modify?
I'm thinking to run Fire//Ice against goblins and other small creatures, but i don't know what should i cut.
Also crucible is good with fetchlands.

Tell me what should i modify, please.

[Cait_Sith]

Kaervek's Torch vs Demonfire
It comes down almost solely as to how fast you empty your hand. Since you are running counters Kaervek's Torch is almost always better.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

I'm thinking about running serum visions or predict, and sylvan library.

And i can replace tutor with intuition or gamble, since i run eternal witness.
I run fire/ice against goblins.

I need some ides to beat:
1) Solidarity and iggy pop
2) Goblins
3) ********
4) Landstill

Please give me some ideas.

[Warmonger]

Lord Xœvx Cvrsed, ou run only 22 lands and no serious draw engine with 4 Explorations in the list. They seem suboptimal and won't provide you any advantage in many cases.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Lord Xœvx Cvrsed, ou run only 22 lands and no serious draw engine with 4 Explorations in the list. They seem suboptimal and won't provide you any advantage in many cases.

I agree with you. My draw engine is bad.
I suck at draw engines, so you can give me some ideas to improve it.
4 brainstorm isn't enough and fact or fiction has 4cc.

I have these options:

Serum visions
Arcane denial
Words of wisdom
Predict
Sleight of hand
Impulse
Dream cache
Eternal dragon
Tithe
Land grant
Elfhame sanctuary
Crucible of worlds

There are other cards i don't remember.

Then, i need your help.

[Brushwagg]

Your draw engine should be Compulsion. Basically you cycle your way through the deck. Basically you pitch stuff you don't need at the present time. Then once Wake hits the table is GG.

Also have you tried out at least 1 Crucible in the deck?? Could be some good since your mana base is owned by Wasteland.

Your engine could look like this
3x Compulsion
4x Brainstrom
2-3x Deep Anal.


I need some ides to beat:
1) Solidarity and iggy pop
2) Goblins
3) ********
4) Landstill


1. Well you have counter spells so your pretty good here. Not to many Sorceries are going to help. Tsunami for Solidarity, but it hurts you. As far as Iggy counter the Iggy or Solidarity Confinement.

2.Goblins: Pyroclasm, Wrath, Trivadar's Crusade. Need Multiples of Wrath and Clasm. They are good in other match-ups.

3.Theshold: Pick your spots. Crypt is good here. Outside of that Cycle Decree alot. Gro usally can't handle a mass horde. Be carfeful of Red and Black though. Clasm and Plague on Soliders hurts you. Also I would probably add in a Wasteland with Crucible. With Exploration you should be able to lock them out.

4.Landstill: I would probably add in a Wasteland with Crucible. With Exploration you should be able to lock them out.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Your draw engine should be Compulsion. Basically you cycle your way through the deck. Basically you pitch stuff you don't need at the present time. Then once Wake hits the table is GG.

Also have you tried out at least 1 Crucible in the deck?? Could be some good since your mana base is owned by Wasteland.

Your engine could look like this
3x Compulsion
4x Brainstrom
2-3x Deep Anal.



1. Well you have counter spells so your pretty good here. Not to many Sorceries are going to help. Tsunami for Solidarity, but it hurts you. As far as Iggy counter the Iggy or Solidarity Confinement.

2.Goblins: Pyroclasm, Wrath, Trivadar's Crusade. Need Multiples of Wrath and Clasm. They are good in other match-ups.

3.Theshold: Pick your spots. Crypt is good here. Outside of that Cycle Decree alot. Gro usally can't handle a mass horde. Be carfeful of Red and Black though. Clasm and Plague on Soliders hurts you. Also I would probably add in a Wasteland with Crucible. With Exploration you should be able to lock them out.

4.Landstill: I would probably add in a Wasteland with Crucible. With Exploration you should be able to lock them out.

Yeah, a crucible is nice. Is a good defense against wasteland, and with exploration can thin my deck.
The draw engine's cc should be equal or less than 3, as Maul Bongo said, then i can maximize exploration.
Compulsion is nice, but only if wake is in play.

My draw engine could be:
4 Brainstorm
4 Predict
1 Compulsion

I've seriously thought running wraths, pyroclasm or engineered explosives.
But what should i cut for running this?

[Brushwagg]

That's why I suggested Compulsion. It was run in the type2 version of Wake and that's basically how it won. Cycle until you find Wake, then Win.

I also think that there needs to be main deck board clearers ie Wrath. Burning Wish is nice, but Goblins can have you dead before the 6 mana mark. Not to mention they do have Wasteland and Port and can keep you off a color for a while.

@Deep Anal: Don't forget you can wish for a Flashbacked copy. Giving you at the worst 4 cards for 2 and the best 8 cards for 2. Seems alot better then FoF or anything else for that matter.

@Maul Bongo:Don't forget STP. That has to be on the non-cut list, with all the creature filled decks in the meta. As far as being dead in the combo match, you could always side in Stifle. This is hard for combo to deal with along with your counterspells.

[Son_Gozen]

where is the palinchron for infinite mana??

Where is the content in this post? ~ Nightmare

[Getsickanddie]

That's why I suggested Compulsion. It was run in the type2 version of Wake and that's basically how it won. Cycle until you find Wake, then Win.


Oh how I love compulsion.....That said, having actually played wake in 1.5 compulsion isn't as good as it used to be. Relying heavily on compulsion for a draw engine can lead to games where you stall out because your opponent dropped a needle. Not to mention having deep anals removed by crypt before you get to use them.


I'd love to see Wake make a splash in 1.5, but I'm afraid Mirari's Wake is just to mana intentsive for this format.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

The old t2 lists shouldn't be models for building so much as an extremely loose framework for what the deck should do. We've got a much deeper and more powerful cardpool in Legacy, and we're foolish if we don't make the most of it. So let's just think our way through a tentative build.

4 copies of StP should be in the deck.

[Cavius The Great]

Isn't there a Wake deck that uses Palinchron? How is this build any better?

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Well i seriously considered your ideas, and i modified the deck.
Here's my new list:

Main deck:
4 tundra
4 tropical island
2 plateau
2 savannah
2 volcanic island
4 flooded strand
4 windswept heath

4 counterspell
4 force of will
3 words of wisdom
4 brainstorm
4 predict
4 swords to plowshares
4 exlploration
3 mirari's wake
3 enlightened tutor
2 Pyroclasm/wrath (i think wrath is better)
1 mirari
1 scared mesa
1 crucible of worlds
3 burning wish

Sideboard:
4 meddling mage
2 exalted angel
2 tormod's crypt
1 Kaervek's torch
1 wrath of god
1 decree of justice
1 wurm's call
1 time strecht
1 nostalgic dreams
1 hull breach

I considered running stifle and palinchron, but i haven't found any place, but you can help me with this.
Say me what should i run and what should i cut, please.

[Getsickanddie]

Why are you playing words of wisdom? It generates 0 card advantage, lets your opponent have a card, not to mention blue has way better options.
Predict seems terrible in this deck, as you only have 1 way to set up the top of your deck reliably. If your really dead set on it, I'd at least try to run something like top so you can more reliably set up predict, not to mention make your land drops.
Enlightned Tutor seems kinda sub-par. It creates card disadvantage, and you don't have any one card that says "I win the game" that you can fetch up with Enlightned Tutor. Maybe you could try running some maindeck win conditions in it's place......
Mirari doesn't need to be in this deck, if you can cast this, and copy something relevant with it, you should have been able to win already.
Why are you running Exploration exactly? Is it generating that much tempo? It is a little better now that you're running crucible. I still think there are better options.
I think running only two wraths/pyroclasms maindeck is a mistake. That just isn't enough in a deck that needs to hit 5 mana, untap, and then cast one or two spells before winning. You need time, you need dead creatures.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Why are you playing words of wisdom? It generates 0 card advantage, lets your opponent have a card, not to mention blue has way better options.
Predict seems terrible in this deck, as you only have 1 way to set up the top of your deck reliably. If your really dead set on it, I'd at least try to run something like top so you can more reliably set up predict, not to mention make your land drops.
Enlightned Tutor seems kinda sub-par. It creates card disadvantage, and you don't have any one card that says "I win the game" that you can fetch up with Enlightned Tutor. Maybe you could try running some maindeck win conditions in it's place......
Mirari doesn't need to be in this deck, if you can cast this, and copy something relevant with it, you should have been able to win already.
Why are you running Exploration exactly? Is it generating that much tempo? It is a little better now that you're running crucible. I still think there are better options.
I think running only two wraths/pyroclasms maindeck is a mistake. That just isn't enough in a deck that needs to hit 5 mana, untap, and then cast one or two spells before winning. You need time, you need dead creatures.

The targets of enlightened tutor are: crucible, sacred mesa, Mirari, Wake and tormods crypt.
Sacred mesa is a win condition, but also i could run eternal dragons. Remember i have 2 sb exalted angels.

Words of wisdom generate 2 card andvantage, but lets your opponent to draw a card. Predict and words of wisdom aren't the best in this deck, but what should i run instead?

What are better options than exploration? Say me one. Exploration seems to be the best acceleration engine in a wake deck, but obviously, i should run better card advantage.

Okay, more wrath/pyroclasm. I agree with you.

I need many blue to use force of will.

About the land drops, please suggest me what's the best option.

[Getsickanddie]

Words of wisdom generate 2 card andvantage, but lets your opponent to draw a card. Predict and words of wisdom aren't the best in this deck, but what should i run instead?

Words generates 0 card advantage because your losing a card to draw two, and giving your opponent one. Personally, I think you should go back to Fact or Fiction. Divining Top is a good choice with exploration, fetchlands, and Crucible. While generating card advantage through crucible/exploration, you ensure better land drops.


What are better options than exploration? Say me one. Exploration seems to be the best acceleration engine in a wake deck, but obviously, i should run better card advantage.
About the land drops, please suggest me what's the best option.

When I have built wake for extended in the past I have always taken it in either the more combo direction, or the control direction. Exploration def. seems to fit more in a "combo" build of wake where your really trying to hit 5 lands, play wake, and win win when you untap. Your build is mixing a lot of slower elements like sacred mesa, and burning wish. But like I said earlier Exploration is okay with Crucible, but could be helped by something like Top in the maindeck.


The targets of enlightened tutor are: crucible, sacred mesa, Mirari, Wake and tormods crypt.
Sacred mesa is a win condition, but also i could run eternal dragons. Remember i have 2 sb exalted angels.

Like I said none of those are particularly gamebreaking. Crucible is great in some matchups, and not really relevant in others. Wake is important, and probably the best target for tutor. Mesa is a target, and a win condition but it seems really sub-par. I'd much rather run maindeck decrees, or even something like demonfire.
I'm not really sure why you are running mirari, it's really powerful granted, but it is extremely slow for this format.

[Brushwagg]

@Wrath vs. Pyroclasm: Do you really have to ask??? Wrath wins that hands down. It doesn't care about protection, and creatures can't regenerate. Wrath is the king of creature kill in my book.

@Other good blue draw:There is Deep Anal, as I have mentioned. At worst it draws you 2 cards and can draw you 4 for 1 card. Not to mention you can Burning Wish for it.

Brainstorm

Serum Visions- Not draw but card quality (pretty much what we have in Legacy)

Perilous Research- Get you pretty much a 1 for 1, but at least it doesn't give your opponents cards. I'm reaching here can't think of anything else thats worth playing.

One last thing, I have to agree with Get Sick, that Wake seems a little slow, but could make a splash. The big thing is you need to stem the tide of aggro long enough to win. Because face it your not racing them. I wouldn't worry about Combo as much, since you are going to be playing counters.

So that being said I would include at least:

4x STP
3-4x Wrath

And from the board Pyroclasm.

[Jaynel]

// Lands
3 [A] Savannah
3 [R] Plateau
4 [U] Tundra
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Windswept Heath

// Spells
4 [VI] Impulse
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
4 [US] Exploration
3 [JU] Mirari's Wake
4 [4E] Wrath of God
3 [TO] Deep Analysis
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
4 [IN] Fact or Fiction
4 [MR] Chrome Mox

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Justice
SB: 1 [OD] Time Stretch
SB: 1 [TO] Nostalgic Dreams
SB: 1 [TO] Morningtide
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 2 [US] Arcane Laboratory
SB: 3 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 1 [TO] Deep Analysis
SB: 1 [IA] Pyroclasm

Here's a list I've had some success with. The deck just goes ABSOLUTELY nuts once you hit 4 mana. To get there, Chrome Mox and Exlploration play a huge role. Manabase, however, sucks the big one and is svgly pwned by Wasteland.

Swords gets rid of Lackey and other threats, then Wrath comes online to take care of bigger problems.

Impulse is great for finding Wish or hitting your third/fourth land drops. Thirst for Knowledge is good midgame draw and has excellent synergy with Chrome Mox and Deep Analysis. Analysis is a solid card to hardcast and even more busted to flashback. Fact or Fiction decent, nothing amazing :tongue: .

Once Wake is out, just swing with a bunch of 5/5 Angels the next turn.

I haven't played against that much combo. Game one probably sucks, and it only gets a little bit better game 2. Out go Swords and Wraths for Mages and Arcane Labs, but that only does so much without counters to supplement it.

This deck has been really fun to play.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

@Wrath vs. Pyroclasm: Do you really have to ask??? Wrath wins that hands down. It doesn't care about protection, and creatures can't regenerate. Wrath is the king of creature kill in my book.

Of course, wrath is a better card. Pyroclasm is better against goblins.


Perilous Research- Get you pretty much a 1 for 1, but at least it doesn't give your opponents cards. I'm reaching here can't think of anything else thats worth playing
I can't sacrifice a land or an exploration. That slows the deck. Also I could run serum visions, sleight of hand, fact or fiction or impulse.
Sice i run exploration, i can play a turn 2 fact or fiction, or a turn 2 wrath of god.

I'm not sure about cutting tutors, since crucible + exploration + fetchlands is a good acceleration, and that makes possible a turn 3 wake, and thins my deck, but it's a possibility.

I run in sb a couple of exalted angels, they could help against aggro.
Now i'm running wraths (3 at manideck ad 1 at sb). Moment's peace could be a good choice.

[Cavius The Great]

// Lands
3 [A] Savannah
3 [R] Plateau
4 [U] Tundra
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Windswept Heath

// Spells
4 [VI] Impulse
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
4 [US] Exploration
3 [JU] Mirari's Wake
4 [4E] Wrath of God
3 [TO] Deep Analysis
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
4 [IN] Fact or Fiction
4 [MR] Chrome Mox

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Justice
SB: 1 [OD] Time Stretch
SB: 1 [TO] Nostalgic Dreams
SB: 1 [TO] Morningtide
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 2 [US] Arcane Laboratory
SB: 3 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 1 [TO] Deep Analysis
SB: 1 [IA] Pyroclasm

Here's a list I've had some success with. The deck just goes ABSOLUTELY nuts once you hit 4 mana. To get there, Chrome Mox and Exlploration play a huge role. Manabase, however, sucks the big one and is svgly pwned by Wasteland.

Swords gets rid of Lackey and other threats, then Wrath comes online to take care of bigger problems.

Impulse is great for finding Wish or hitting your third/fourth land drops. Thirst for Knowledge is good midgame draw and has excellent synergy with Chrome Mox and Deep Analysis. Analysis is a solid card to hardcast and even more busted to flashback. Fact or Fiction decent, nothing amazing :tongue: .

Once Wake is out, just swing with a bunch of 5/5 Angels the next turn.

I haven't played against that much combo. Game one probably sucks, and it only gets a little bit better game 2. Out go Swords and Wraths for Mages and Arcane Labs, but that only does so much without counters to supplement it.

This deck has been really fun to play.


How has Chrome Mox been treating you? I'd sooner play Mox Diamond than anything.

Also, Brainstorm is probably begging to see play in your build.

[Jaynel]

Almost every spell in the deck is a bomb, so I have no problem pitching a spell to Chrome Mox in order to cast something big. With Chrome Mox, I can drop it and a land that turn. The problem I see with Mox Diamond is that it is that it costs a land. I don't run Crucible or Loam, so it really doesn't give me a huge advantage in the long run.

Brainstorm would probably be a good addition. However, I prefer Impulse because it digs one card deeper (and a minor nitpick is that it causes manaburn under a Wake). I might cut down the numbers of TfK and FoF to add in some Brainstorms, though. I'll see how it works.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Here's a possible new list:

Burning Wake.dec

// Lands
3 [R] Plateau
4 [R] Tundra
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [5E] Island (1)
1 [5E] Forest (1)
1 [5E] Plains (1)

// Spells
4 [VI] Impulse
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
4 [US] Exploration
3 [JU] Mirari's Wake
3 [7E] Wrath of God
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [5E] Counterspell
4 [7E] Sleight of Hand
1 [OD] Mirari
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
1 [SC] Decree of Justice

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Justice
SB: 1 [OD] Time Stretch
SB: 1 [TO] Nostalgic Dreams
SB: 1 [TO] Morningtide
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 2 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 3 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 1 [TS] Wurmcalling
SB: 1 [7E] Wrath of God

I added more removal to the deck and I replaced the tutors for blue draw. But i can't fetch crucible or wake.

I'm testing this list now. Also I'm testin a version with many enchantments and artifacts as moat, sphere of law (against goblins and burn), crucible, etc.

Tell me what should i cut and what should i run.

[Jaynel]

Counters over what? Some of the draw?

[Cavius The Great]

You need some sort of draw engine for your deck to be even slightly competitive. Maybe something like Concentrate or Tidings would work well, considering that you'd be playing them for 2-3 mana with a Wake in play. They're sorceries, so you could also fit the remaining copies in the SB.

[Cavius The Great]

I'm triying to test the deck of maul bongo, i think is a good idea. But the deck needs better draw engine, then guys, could you help me with the draw engine?

Learn 2 Read. I suggested a draw engine in my last post. Concentrate and Tidings. :rolleyes:

[Cavius The Great]

This deck isn't competitive whatsoever. Please stop bumping the thread.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Well, I'm working in this list that includes loam and intuition based draw engine.


Lands
3 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Forest
2 Plateau
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
3 Windswept Heath
2 Treetop Village
2 Quicksand
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Lonely Sandbar

Spells
3 Concentrate (or maybe Deep Analysis)
3 Intuition
4 Counterspell
3 Burning Wish
2 Eternal Witness
3 Life from the Loam
3 Mirari's Wake
1 Mirari
4 Exploration
2 Wrath of God
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

Sideboard
1 The Tabernacle at the Pendrell Vale
1 Wrath of God
1 Time Stretch
1 Decree of Justice
1 Hull Breach
1 Crush of Wurms
4 Meddling Mage
2 Powder Keg
3 Stifle

Here comes the explaination of my card choices:

Exploration: For mana acceleration. I need it to play wake in third-fourth turn.
Life from the loam: For land recursion. Good synergy with exploration and fetchlands
Eternal witness: Good synergy with intuition and life from the loam.
Concentrate: For drawing. I dont run fact or fiction because i run intuition.
Cycling lands: An additional draw engine with life from the loam.
Treetop village: Another win condition than decree.
Quicksand: It's useful to destroy goblins.
Tabernavcle at pendrell vale: Against aggro decks such as goblins.

Well, against solidarity I run 8 counters + 4 meddling mage + 3 stifle for combo hate. Wasteland can destroy my mana base, but against that i run loam at maindeck and stifle in sb.
Against goblins i run 4 stp, 1 tabernacle, 2 wraths, 2 quicksands and 2 powder keg.
Against ***** i can use wraths, counters and powder kegs against mongoose. Other creatures can be destroyed with wraths and stp, and also countered.

What changes should i do to make the deck better?