PDA

View Full Version : [Deck] Wildfire Stax



Machinus
10-30-2006, 06:46 PM
After getting many requests, I have decided to open this thread here. Please see the existing Stax discussion at these other places:

March (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27779.0)
September (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=30039.0)


Wildfire Stax 2.0

4 Wildfire
4 Covetous Dragon
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Powder Keg
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wooded Foothills
6 Mountain

SB
4 Pyroclasm
4 Defense Grid
7 meta cards


Wildfire is much more powerful than Wrath of God in Legacy, and it has strong support from my Stax shell. The deck is more aggressive, but more vulnerable, since it is less synergistic overall and has no lifegain.

The sideboard is probably much better, since Pyroclasm is huge and you can basically cater to any number of decks.

Hopefully the Wildfire discussion can be concentrated here for those interested.

Bane of the Living
10-30-2006, 07:03 PM
Well there's a large difference between Angel and Dragon. I like that he's just about a 3 turn clock assuming your opponent plays fetches or FoW's. Is he the only win condition you've tested? Arc-Slogger seems extremely powerfull here. He's much better against swarm decks, and could even fire off a couple shots in response to a removal spell. Aside from that have you considered any permanent sources of mana such as Signets or Thran Dynamo? Temporal Apature is amazing with Dynamo, it lets you get ahead when you cant seem to draw well.

Pillar seems like an obvious inclusion to the sideboard as well.

Machinus
10-30-2006, 07:04 PM
Aside from that have you considered any permanent sources of mana such as Signets or Thran Dynamo?

Mox Diamond and Crucible of Worlds are non-land sources of mana. Think of it as if they both generate 1 per turn.

Silverdragon
10-31-2006, 08:04 AM
Another good finisher in this deck could be Crater Hellion if you can support the extra red (and Echo). Hellion also works as boardsweepers 5-8 (or 9-12 if you count Keg).
I think if you want to add Hellion you should also cut some Wires and Kegs for a bunch of Signets or Talismans. A huge downside may also be that it doesn't fly but when your opponent can cast fliers with a butt of 5 or greater against this deck something went wrong previously anyway.
Another thing that I realized while playing Wildfire with Signets for some time is that it's extremely easy to splash a color. You could play for example 4 Badlands and 4 Rakdos Signet to add Engineered Plague in the Sideboard or Cranial Extraction.

Miniature Kenny
10-31-2006, 07:24 PM
Thunder Dragon does essentially the same thing without the echo cost. Covetous Dragon does seem like an obvious choice though, he flies and has the least expensive casting cost of the other choices.

Di
11-01-2006, 12:54 AM
I haven't picked up this deck in a while, but I was working with it quite a bit a couple months ago. One card that I think you should possibly look at, if you haven't already (or discussed for that matter, I didn't really read the old threads) was Seething Song. I ran Arc-Sloggers in my build as well, and I felt the fact that you could be sending up turn 1 Covetous Dragons and Sloggers was huge. It allows you to speed things up like crazy. I'm not sure if it's actually good enough to make the cut, but the boost it give is just insane.

Bane of the Living
11-01-2006, 07:39 PM
I played 2 games against Solidarity today and went 2-0. The deck only needs one solid lock piece in play such as a Chalice or Trinisphere and a Covetous Dragon to apply way too much pressure. I like the quick clock.

I also went 2-1 with Goblins. The build Im playing has only 2 Kegs and I had no gob sideboard ready to play with so no Pyroclasm. The matchup still seems very dependant on opening with Chalice to stop Vial and Lackey, but Wildfire is a game breaker. I was playing the list here -2 keg, -1 dragon; +1 Mishras Helix, +2 Arc Slogger.

Slogger is nuts amazing. He's a win condition and a board sweeper in one. I can untap with him and do 10 damage easy. I like the idea of Hellion because I used to play him back in the day, but sometimes it seems difficult to hit 6 mana reliably. Im thinking the deck might need a bit more artifact mana.

fearphage
11-02-2006, 01:49 AM
I really like the idea of Arc-Slogger. The turn after you play him, he removes a blocker so he can swing through. He lives through Wildfire too. Sounds good.

Seething song would make for crazy turn 1 plays:
- Chalice for 1 + Crucible/Trinisphere
- Chalice for 1 (bait) + Defense Grid
- Smokestack

Only problem with song is it would be non-permanent 5-8 and a horrid topdeck. With no draw, I don't know if this deck can afford to increase the number of dead draws. Although its usefulness does increase post-Wildfire. Sorta typing out-loud to myself here...

Bogardan Hellkite (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?name=bogardan_hellkite) is another creature with builtin removal but it has the advantage of being able to hit the opponent as well. Crater Hellion (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?name=crater_hellion) is better against creature decks but the ability to send 5 damage to your opponent is nice in the combo matchup.

Question: When is the earliest you would cast Wildfire? Assuming you aren't facing down lethal damage, would you Wildfire for 2 lands? 3?

PS. I typed this last night and apparently neglected to submit it.

Cavius The Great
11-02-2006, 11:14 AM
After getting many requests, I have decided to open this thread here. Please see the existing Stax discussion at these other places:

March (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27779.0)
September (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=30039.0)


Wildfire Stax 2.0

4 Wildfire
4 Covetous Dragon
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Powder Keg
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wooded Foothills
6 Mountain

SB
4 Pyroclasm
4 Defense Grid
7 meta cards


Wildfire is much more powerful than Wrath of God in Legacy, and it has strong support from my Stax shell. The deck is more aggressive, but more vulnerable, since it is less synergistic overall and has no lifegain.

The sideboard is probably much better, since Pyroclasm is huge and you can basically cater to any number of decks.

Hopefully the Wildfire discussion can be concentrated here for those interested.

Where are the artifact accelerators such as Worn Powerstone, Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus? From my knowledge those are staples to Wildfire decks.

Also, have you considered Stuffy Doll as an additional win condition?

Silverdragon
11-02-2006, 11:53 AM
Bogardan Hellkite (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?name=bogardan_hellkite) is another creature with builtin removal but it has the advantage of being able to hit the opponent as well. Crater Hellion (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?name=crater_hellion) is better against creature decks but the ability to send 5 damage to your opponent is nice in the combo matchup.

Question: When is the earliest you would cast Wildfire? Assuming you aren't facing down lethal damage, would you Wildfire for 2 lands? 3?



Hellkite and Thunder Dragon both cost 7 mana to play and I can tell you this is really hard to assemble when you need it (about turn 4). I'd never go over cc 6 in a Legacy Staxdeck because even with things like Worn Powerstone and Thran Dynamo you aren't fast enough. Also your manasources may be much more powerful than those of your opponent but they are also more fragile (or make you weaker in the long run aka Tomb) so you shouldn't expect them to stay in play long or to use them very often.

On the question: It depends on what you've seen from your opponent. If he's playing Solidarity I'd go for the earliest possible even if this means I "only" take 2 lands. Against Goblins there are also situations (mainly if they haven't played Vial) I'd play it on turn 3 but with much thought of how each of us can recover. Finally against Thresh always play it when the chances for a counter are low enough even if this means it'll only be a very expensive Stone Rain (ok this was a bit extreme, many times when you can get a Chalice@1 and or Defense Grid out it is obviously better to slowroll it, maximizing its impact).
This is how I played it to some degree of success, hope it helped.

Jaynel
11-02-2006, 08:16 PM
Where are the artifact accelerators such as Worn Powerstone, Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus? From my knowledge those are staples to Wildfire decks.

I think those were only used in the CaNGD contest deck. That deck just wanted to resolve a Wildfire as soon as possible then drop a bomb (Sundering Titan, Crater Hellion, Burning Wish to Tooth and Nail) on the board. It did this by utilizing artifact mana to Wildfire really early on and still have mana around afterwards.

This deck, If I'm correct, uses Wildfire more as Angel Stax would use Wrath of God. Wildfire nukes (nearly) every creature in Legacy and also establishes a better lock with the prison elements. I don't think artifact mana is necessary, because just by playing lands and lock pieces you can go for a turn 4-6 Wildfire to reset things.

My point is that this deck does not revolve around dropping a Wildfire.

Bane of the Living
11-06-2006, 05:39 PM
Well here's my report.

I worked from 7am-11pm Friday then 6am-2pm Saturday, then we went. I was about ready for bed before we even got there but I drank up some Sparks and got my game face on.

Round 1: Brad w/ R/G Aggro Loam
Brads from Dragons Lair and he just beat me with this deck last week. Loam decks are awsome against Smokestack. I couldnt hit a Chalice for 2 in game one just a Trinisphere. It slowed him down but he still beat me thanks to maindeck Naturalize and a resolved Seismic Assault. I Wildfired his board but he just played draw go till he had lethal lands in hand.
Round 2 he brought in Bloodmoons. I eventually got a Chalice @ 2 but died because Smokestack couldnt keep up with Sylvan Library and Assault.

Round 2: R/w Goblins
Game one he drops Lackey hits me and drops Warchief and plays Piledriver. I, ready to lose the game, drop Tangle Wire. He taps everything BUT PILEDRIVER!!! OMFG WHAT A N00B! He swings one damage with Driver. Next turn he taps his lackey again under the Tangle Wire. Worst player ever? I sadley still lose this game because my deck draws like a a blind man with arthritis.
Game 2 he drops turn one lackey. I play mox and mishras factory. He plays Plateou and asks me if you can swords a Factory. Of course I reply. He swings and I dont activate factory because I need to mana WAY too much and I fall for bluffs or something. He drops Matron and tutors for SGC then needles Powderkeg. Next turn he hits and drops siege. I die shortly after.

Round 3: Angel of Despair w/ Red Threshold
Awsome, my girlfriend. I return last weeks favor and give her the win. She has a better chance anyways.

Round 4: Aluren
This dude plays Confidant and Oran Viper, it looks like a standard deck. I have no problem with him game one.
Game 2 He plays turn one Eldmari's Vineyard. I play a turn one Crucible. Turn 2 he plays ALUREN!!! He wins on the spot.
Game 3 I dont remember but I know I Wildfire the shit out of him.

Round 5: Deadguy
Game one he plays and opens with Dark Rit, Dark Rit, Hymn, Spector. I lose.

Game 2 he goes turn one Dark Rit, Dark Rit, Hymn, Confidant. He Vindicates two key cards and I lose.

Ive never done this bad at a legacy event. My deck was amazing through testing, almost undefeated, then completely shat out on me during the event. I really think Machinus builds decks just so people will play them and lose to him when he plays Goblins.. Hes the list I played anyways..

4 Wildfire
2 Arc-Slogger
3 Covetous Dragon
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds
3 Powder Keg
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Bloodstained Mire
6 Mountain

SB
4 Pyroclasm
4 Defense Grid
1 Arc Slogger
1 Powder Keg
3 Boil
2 I forget..

Machinus
11-06-2006, 06:40 PM
How did you like Arc Slogger?

Who won the die rolls and what were your turn 1/2 plays?

Needle on Keg is rough. R/W runs needle in the board now?

How much deadguy gets played there?

If was going to make people lose to Goblins, I would tell them to play fish or madness.

Hanni
11-06-2006, 06:43 PM
Except I think I beat you at the D4D with Fish, Machinus... :tongue:

Bane of the Living
11-06-2006, 07:03 PM
How did you like Arc Slogger?

Who won the die rolls and what were your turn 1/2 plays?

Needle on Keg is rough. R/W runs needle in the board now?

How much deadguy gets played there?

If was going to make people lose to Goblins, I would tell them to play fish or madness.

Arc Slogger is nuts. I actually cast him over Dragon each time I see both turn 5. Against most aggro decks one activation kills one creature giving you one large purple one eye'd card advantage machine. The turn you untap with him and drop a red mana you can swing and activate 3 times for 10 damage!

I think I lost most of the die rolls but nothing devastating came of it except in the case of Goblin Lackey. I didnt see turn 1-2 Trinisphere more than one game. I got turn 1 CotV alot but it didnt seem to matter in many games. Most of my early drops were weaker cards such as Crucible or Tangle Wire. I think I saw Tangle Wire way too much over the night. There were acouple games where I cast 2-3 Wires and did nothing but stall the opponent.

Most gob decks seem to run 2-3 needles in the board regardless of color.

The deadguy deck I played against last round was the only one I saw and he was at the bottom of the tables like me.

Deger
03-17-2007, 11:35 PM
I've been messing with this deck latley. not a full list because I am still trying to get all the cards but I kinda like it.. my Kill right now is 4 Covetous Dragons, 2 Karn and 2 Arc Sloggers and after not seeing how he is good I kinda figured it out.. but I also have filled some slots with Pyrokenisis which has been pretty nice but maybe I want slice and dice.. so I was wondering if anyone had anythoughts on either of those cards.. I mean the slice and dice os just as good as a crater hellion for board sweep at 2 mana less . you could also clear the creatures if you opponent sacs lands to the stax to keep the beatdown...

anyway slice and dice anythoughts.. also you can cycle it and take out a huge amount of gobs... and get a card.. way advantage...

namaste
dave

Machinus
03-18-2007, 12:27 AM
Pyroclasm is just better than Slice and Dice. The important creatures all have 2 toughness and it is relevant in so many more matchups.

Radley
03-18-2007, 05:00 AM
Is there any better creature than covetous dragon? How about masticore? Masticore has regeneration and can kill your opponent's small creatures or those with protection from red.

Has anyone considered temporal aperture? Shuffle your deck and you can play the top card in library, not a bad thing.

Is there a chance to put burning wish to get wildfire faster? Wildfire would be like 7 if you put burning wish.

Cait_Sith
03-18-2007, 09:10 AM
Is there any better creature than covetous dragon? How about masticore? Masticore has regeneration and can kill your opponent's small creatures or those with protection from red.

Has anyone considered temporal aperture? Shuffle your deck and you can play the top card in library, not a bad thing.

Is there a chance to put burning wish to get wildfire faster? Wildfire would be like 7 if you put burning wish.

The problems with Masticore are:
1) He eats away at your hand. This can has no draw spells to refill your hand.

2) Because he costs 2 to regenerate he makes all your Wildfire that much more expensive.

3) He is often a 5 turn clock (compared to the Dragon's 3)

I think, though, that in a meta with cards like Silver Knight and Soltari Priest he would be good for the sideboard.

Temporal Aperture:

It is an expensive card to activate (everything but Wildfire costs less than 5) but it does act as pseudo-draw. I think it deserves a test.

Burning Wish:

I actually like this idea, except put one copy of Burning of Xinye in the sideboard along with cards like Shattering Spree, Devastation, Recoup, and a few copies of Pyroclasm. This lets you have plenty of answers and, if nothing else, effectively 8 copies of Wildfire.

Nihil Credo
03-18-2007, 01:34 PM
I think the Wildfire deck from the CanGD that Jaynel mentioned should be posted, at least for reference. And also because I love it soooo much (playing BlowUpTheWorld.dec does not make you feel as dirty as playing Stax does).
I would post the original list and cite the author, but Google seems unable to find it anymore. So I'll put here my - only slightly tweaked - build:

// Whole Lotta Mana
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [MM] Sandstone Needle
7 [UNH] Mountain
4 [UD] Thran Dynamo
4 [GP] Gruul Signet
2 [MR] Talisman of Impulse
4 [MR] Gilded Lotus
2 [US] Worn Powerstone
2 [WL] Mind Stone

// Creatures
4 [DS] Sundering Titan
4 [US] Crater Hellion

// Blow Up the World
3 [SC] Decree of Annihilation
2 [P3] Burning of Xinye
2 [P2] Wildfire

// Others
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [DS] Trinisphere

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Annihilation
SB: 1 [P3] Burning of Xinye
SB: 2 [PT] Devastation
SB: 4 [9E] Pyroclasm
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [MR] Tooth and Nail
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 1 [RAV] Life from the Loam

Cavius The Great
03-18-2007, 01:45 PM
Just out of curiosity, Nihil, how does this deck fair against Goblins? It seems like Aether Vial might be an issue for this deck. And how does this deck deal with Aether Vial without having to destroy your own manabase, via Decree of Annihilation? Maybe additional sorcery artifact hate in the SB might be warranted.

Radley
03-18-2007, 03:24 PM
I think the Wildfire deck from the CanGD that Jaynel mentioned should be posted, at least for reference. And also because I love it soooo much (playing BlowUpTheWorld.dec does not make you feel as dirty as playing does).
I would post the original list and cite the author, but Google seems unable to find it anymore. So I'll put here my - only slightly tweaked - build:

// Whole Lotta Mana
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [MM] Sandstone Needle
7 [UNH] Mountain
4 [UD] Thran Dynamo
4 [GP] Gruul Signet
2 [MR] Talisman of Impulse
4 [MR] Gilded Lotus
2 [US] Worn Powerstone
2 [WL] Mind Stone

// Creatures
4 [DS] Sundering Titan
4 [US] Crater Hellion

// Blow Up the World
3 [SC] Decree of Annihilation
2 [P3] Burning of Xinye
2 [P2] Wildfire

// Others
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [DS] Trinisphere

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Annihilation
SB: 1 [P3] Burning of Xinye
SB: 2 [PT] Devastation
SB: 4 [9E] Pyroclasm
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [MR] Tooth and Nail
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 1 [RAV] Life from the Loam

Are you serious with decree of annihilation? I hope you're kidding because what you'll do is set up your deck then destroy all, that would be a big joke.

Nihil Credo
03-18-2007, 03:30 PM
Just out of curiosity, Nihil, how does this deck fair against Goblins? It seems like Aether Vial might be an issue for this deck. And how does this deck deal with Aether Vial without having to destroy your own manabase, via Decree of Annihilation? Maybe additional sorcery artifact hate in the SB might be warranted.
You're quite correct, AEther Vial is the #1 threat from Goblins, and needs to be dealt with. There are several options:
1) If you can Hull Breach it away before blowing up the board, that's obviously the best solution.
2) If you Wildfire with a fattie in play (watch out for Incinerator!), you can put them on the defensive. Even a Vial at 2 (the most dangerous setting for a recovery) can't outrace a 6-7 power attacker, and if they keep chump-blocking, you should have the time to topdeck another sweeper or a Burning Wish.

Post-board, if I'm on the play, I actually bring in CotV. Turn 1 Chalice turns the game greatly in your favour.
Artifact destruction is something I've tried to fit in the board, mostly for that awful Crucible of Worlds/Mishra's Factory combo, but the SB is really tight. My current attempt is -1 Pyroclasm, -1 Life from the Loam, +2 Krosan Grip, but I haven't posted that since it is still untested.


Are you serious with decree of annihilation? I hope you're kidding because what you'll do is set up your deck then destroy all, that would be a big joke.
I hear reading a card to the end is pretty tech.

By the way, I thank Radley for giving me the excuse to tell the most fun play I ever had with this deck:
Opponent: "It's your turn 4 and you've done nothing but drop artifact mana. You know I can go off as soon as next turn and there's nothing you can do about it, right? Play land #4, go."
Me: "During your EOT, cycle Decree of Annihilation. Untap, Crater Hellion."
Opponent: *disconnects*

Edit: He was playing Solidarity.

Benie Bederios
03-18-2007, 03:32 PM
Uhm you can cycle Decree to destroy all lands. That is the purpose of it, not to remove the entire board.

The deck has some nice Ideas for Wildfire Stax too. It is very explosive an able to play turn 3 Wildfire with ease. On the other hand it has less threaths so a little weaker against Control.

But I'm not sure you can mix those decks. Allthough they have some simularity's it's another deck to play.

Cait_Sith
03-18-2007, 05:42 PM
Nihil, so that list is yours? I am writing a Wildfire control primer because I can (roar?) and am using that list -2 Mind Stone +2 Talisman of Impulse. I played out a mirror match on MWS today... it was insane. Shattering Spree dual!.

Also, I hardcast Decree of Annihilation once. It rocked.

Nihil Credo
03-18-2007, 05:52 PM
Nihil, so that list is yours? I am writing a Wildfire control primer because I can (roar?) and am using that list -2 Mind Stone +2 Talisman of Impulse. I played out a mirror match on MWS today... it was insane. Shattering Spree dual!.

Also, I hardcast Decree of Annihilation once. It rocked.
Well, the original list is from the CaNGD. I added the Mind Stones because I was very rarely short on colored mana, while on the other side drawing a card post-Wildfire is very, very good. I heartily recommend them.
I also tweaked the SB a bit, as you can see. But I don't think there's a "right way" to build the Wishboard - it is very personal, for example, I cut Shattering Spree very quickly and didn't look back.

I hardcast Decree a few times too. But it wasn't awesome. It was either that or die to Pro-Red Guy. That's why I added Devastation #2 to the SB, by the way.

Radley
03-19-2007, 05:26 AM
7 mana for cycling, too late against solidarity most of the time. Unless you play trinisphere or COTV.

Radley
03-19-2007, 06:12 AM
I think the Wildfire deck from the CanGD that Jaynel mentioned should be posted, at least for reference. And also because I love it soooo much (playing BlowUpTheWorld.dec does not make you feel as dirty as playing Stax does).
I would post the original list and cite the author, but Google seems unable to find it anymore. So I'll put here my - only slightly tweaked - build:

// Whole Lotta Mana
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [MM] Sandstone Needle
7 [UNH] Mountain
4 [UD] Thran Dynamo
4 [GP] Gruul Signet
2 [MR] Talisman of Impulse
4 [MR] Gilded Lotus
2 [US] Worn Powerstone
2 [WL] Mind Stone

// Creatures
4 [DS] Sundering Titan
4 [US] Crater Hellion

// Blow Up the World
3 [SC] Decree of Annihilation
2 [P3] Burning of Xinye
2 [P2] Wildfire

// Others
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [DS] Trinisphere

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Annihilation
SB: 1 [P3] Burning of Xinye
SB: 2 [PT] Devastation
SB: 4 [9E] Pyroclasm
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [MR] Tooth and Nail
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 1 [RAV] Life from the Loam

This deck isn't exactly a wildfire/stax deck, you might want to consider making a new thread for this.

kicks_422
03-19-2007, 06:47 AM
7 mana for cycling, too late against solidarity most of the time. Unless you play trinisphere or COTV.

Not unless you play lots of mana acceleration, which this deck just happens to do.

Cait_Sith
03-19-2007, 11:04 AM
7 mana for cycling, too late against solidarity most of the time. Unless you play trinisphere or COTV.

I cycled it on my 3rd turn with only 2 lands drops. Turn 3 Wildfire/Burning of Xinye/Cycled Decree is what this deck is DESIGNED to do (if it needs to)

Machinus
03-19-2007, 11:21 AM
Actually, my deck is designed to disrupt the opponent with lock parts and then seal up the game with Wildfire. This is much stronger against combo and control.

Also, I designed this deck in 2005 and posted it per request around the time of CANGD.

Radley
03-19-2007, 11:22 AM
I cycled it on my 3rd turn with only 2 lands drops. Turn 3 Wildfire/Burning of Xinye/Cycled Decree is what this deck is DESIGNED to do (if it needs to)

37 cards dedicated to mana accelerant. You'll probably draw 7 land and accelerants most of the time?

Cavius The Great
03-19-2007, 11:55 AM
37 cards dedicated to mana accelerant. You'll probably draw 7 land and accelerants most of the time?

That's what mulligans are for. :rolleyes:

Lego
03-19-2007, 12:18 PM
The thread for DampingEngine's CaNGD Finalist is still in existence, and can be found HERE (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3184&highlight=wildfire)

Using the Search function FTW?

Nihil Credo
03-19-2007, 12:19 PM
Actually, my deck is designed to disrupt the opponent with lock parts and then seal up the game with Wildfire. This is much stronger against combo and control.
Against combo, definitely (especially with the new trend towards faster goldfishes). Against most control decks, however, I'd rather take the uber-Wildfire deck.
To finish the comparison, I'll add that Stax brutally rapes aggro-control (Fish and Threshold), but its lock can be overcome by Goblins's hordes. On the other side, uber-Wildfire handles balls-out aggro (Red Death, Faerie Stompy, Affinity) quite well, but wets its pants over a stupid Mother of Runes.

And with that, I think it's time to return the thread to the discussion of Wildfire Stax. As I wrote, I posted the list just for the sake of comparison. When Cait_Sith posts his article, we'll develop it there.


The thread for DampingEngine's CaNGD Finalist is still in existence, and can be found HERE (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3184&highlight=wildfire)

Using the Search function FTW?
Oops, I'm sorry. I Google'd for "CANGD site:mtgthesource.com", which returned only the thread requesting submissions... which was in a category of its own, to which I didn't have access. It didn't occur to me to search for "CaNG" (without D).

Radley
03-19-2007, 12:29 PM
That's what mulligans are for. :rolleyes:

I guess you'll mulligan more than wildfire stax. If you got 2-3 land and all of the other cards are mana accelerants, are you actually going to mulligan?

Cait_Sith
03-19-2007, 12:58 PM
Actually I mulligan more because I was a better land accelerant mix, not because I am low on business spells.

MWS Generated these starting Hands:

Mountain
Trinisphere
Gruul Signet
Wildfire
Wildfire
Decree of Annihilation
Burning Wish

- Low on mana - Mulligan

Mountain
Worn Powerstone
Crater Hellion
City of Traitors
Gilded Lotus
Burning Wish
Burning of Xinye

- All you need is another accelerant ideally - Keep

Mountain
Thran Dynamo
City of Traitors
Gilded Lotus
Worn Powerstone
Thran Dynamo
Decree of Annihilation

- Low of the business spells, but otherwise very good - Keep

Mountain
Mountain
Mountain
Thran Dynamo
Worn Powerstone
Gruul Signet
Burning Wish

- I wish this had 1 more green mana SO badly - Keep

Wildfire
Sundering Titan
Gilded Lotus
Sundering Titan
Ancient Tomb
Wildfire
Talisman of Impulse

- Too little mana - Mulligan

Crater Hellion
Sandstone Needle
Thran Dynamo
Gruul Signet
Burning Wish
Decree of Annihilation
Sundering Titan

- This is a little mana light, but workable - Keep

Burning Wish
Mountain
Burning Wish
Talisman of Impulse
Mountain
Sundering Titan
Talisman of Impulse

- Workable, but again, mana light - Keep

Out of 7 hands I mulliganed 2 for having too little mana and 0 for having too much.

C.P.
03-19-2007, 01:33 PM
I was wondering while building the deck... is there any reason not to play voltaic key in the deck?

Cait_Sith
03-19-2007, 02:34 PM
It takes up Valuable Space and is only good with half the artifact accel?

C.P.
03-19-2007, 03:31 PM
It looks better than worn powerstone as 2 of, though.

Cait_Sith
03-19-2007, 04:57 PM
At best they each produce 2. At worst the key is dead.

Radley
03-20-2007, 03:39 AM
Voltaic key was in the type 2 deck because at that time, you can use grim monolith. But in legacy, voltaic key is pretty much useless.

Zilla
03-20-2007, 06:29 AM
This discussion is way off topic. This thread is for Wildfire Stax. You guys are discussing a different deck entirely. Move your discussion here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3184). Further discussion on the topic in this thread will be moderatied. - Zilla

Radley
03-20-2007, 11:39 AM
After getting many requests, I have decided to open this thread here. Please see the existing Stax discussion at these other places:

March (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27779.0)
September (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=30039.0)


Wildfire Stax 2.0

4 Wildfire
4 Covetous Dragon
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Powder Keg
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wooded Foothills
6 Mountain

SB
4 Pyroclasm
4 Defense Grid
7 meta cards


Wildfire is much more powerful than Wrath of God in Legacy, and it has strong support from my Stax shell. The deck is more aggressive, but more vulnerable, since it is less synergistic overall and has no lifegain.

The sideboard is probably much better, since Pyroclasm is huge and you can basically cater to any number of decks.

Hopefully the Wildfire discussion can be concentrated here for those interested.

O.K. Moving on and staying on topic.

So, basically, you changed armageddon/wrath of god to wildfire and exalted angel with covetous dragon. I liked this over angel stax. You might want to run 3 burning of xinye, 3 wildfire, 4 burning wish.

Cait_Sith
03-20-2007, 12:33 PM
Burning Wish has little place in any Stax deck because of how mana intensive they are (plus most run Trinisphere, which makes it even harder). However, splitting Wildfire into 50/50 with Burning of Xinye allows you to easily bypass annoying cards like Extirpate and Meddling Mage almost entirely.

Radley
03-20-2007, 12:50 PM
Burning Wish has little place in any Stax deck because of how mana intensive they are (plus most run Trinisphere, which makes it even harder). However, splitting Wildfire into 50/50 with Burning of Xinye allows you to easily bypass annoying cards like Extirpate and Meddling Mage almost entirely.

And making burning of xinye & wildfire = 50/50 2 ofs makes the deck random especially without burning wish. Trinisphere doesn't affect burning wish that much, I mean it only adds 1 mana and not counter it.

Cait_Sith
03-20-2007, 01:11 PM
How on EARTH does it make the deck random? They ARE THE SAME CARD! The only thing different is the name. Also, when you are running a very mana and tempo tight deck, wishes don't cut it.

Edit: This is my 666 post.

Radley
03-20-2007, 01:29 PM
How on EARTH does it make the deck random? They ARE THE SAME CARD! The only thing different is the name. Also, when you are running a very mana and tempo tight deck, wishes don't cut it.

Edit: This is my 666 post.

Err.. I meant 2 ofs and no burning wish is so random. So, basically, if you only got 2 ofs, how the hell could you be consistent?

IndyTerminator
03-20-2007, 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cait_Sith View Post
How on EARTH does it make the deck random? They ARE THE SAME CARD! The only thing different is the name. Also, when you are running a very mana and tempo tight deck, wishes don't cut it.

Edit: This is my 666 post.
Err.. I meant 2 ofs and no burning wish is so random. So, basically, if you only got 2 ofs, how the hell could you be consistent?

It is consistent because he has 4 Wildfire-like effects. They are the same card but only with a different name to help get around things like Meddling Mage and Cabal Therapy. You really do not need a lot of Wildfire effects because then they will sit there in your hand when you don't need them.

His reasoning against Burning Wish is that it does not have the greatest synergy with Trinisphere. Sure, it only adds one mana but that could mean an extra turn you have to wait in order to play Wildfire and usually that is not going to cut it.

troopatroop
03-20-2007, 02:00 PM
Because they're the exact same card, mana cost, effect, and everything.

They do the same thing.

It's the same card.

It dodges Meddling Mage.

Now are you done with your idiocy?

Cait_Sith
03-20-2007, 02:07 PM
Err.. I meant 2 ofs and no burning wish is so random. So, basically, if you only got 2 ofs, how the hell could you be consistent?

The 2 2-ofs = 1 4 of. I only made the deck more resilient to MM and cards like that, not changed the fundamental nature.

Machinus
03-20-2007, 04:15 PM
Splitting between Wildfire and Xinye is better. However, Xinye is hard to obtain and it's almost as good without it, so I did not include it in the list.

It is quite interesting that you suggest that it makes the deck "random," however. May I suggest reaidng some cards before you post about how bad they are?

I agree that Burning Wish is too mana intensive for a deck like this. There is no reason to run it. If you want more of a certain effect, there are plenty of conjugates in Portal.

Radley
03-20-2007, 06:40 PM
Oh my god! Don't you guys read what i posted? You guys already jumped to your own conclusion and assumed I'm stupid. Troopatroop can you read my posts before saying I'm an idiot then after you read what i posted maybe you can stop your idiocy? Why would I suggest to use 3 burning of xinye, 3 wildfire and 4 burning wish if I don't know what I'm suggesting?

To the people who has a really low I.Q and didn't get what I said:
2 ofs right? so only 4 wildfire effect. No burning wish to get them which makes it random, it just can't be in your hand when you really need to wildfire. So the 2 ofs is not the one that making it random, it's the fact that you only got 4 wildfire effect and nothing to search for it or to get it with.

Cait_Sith
03-20-2007, 06:45 PM
1 Thing:

1) This is not a Wildfire deck, and even if it were you RARELY need more than 1 Wildfire effect. Wildfire acts more like the World's Biggest Reset Button instead of a finite control element. You can win games without it, but it is nice to have in a pinch (and improves the Goblins MU)

Radley
03-20-2007, 06:51 PM
1 Thing:

1) This is not a Wildfire deck, and even if it were you RARELY need more than 1 Wildfire effect. Wildfire acts more like the World's Biggest Reset Button instead of a finite control element. You can win games without it, but it is nice to have in a pinch (and improves the Goblins MU)

I'm just defending myself. Defending that I'm not as stupid to think the 2 ofs are random :confused: It already came to me that those wildfire is not really important in this deck, This is wildfire stax after all.

Cait_Sith
03-20-2007, 06:56 PM
I am just going to continue on topic now.

It seems that some sort of Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast should be a staple in the sideboard. It would be a rather warped meta not to see any blue at all.

Nihil Credo
03-21-2007, 05:32 AM
I just noticed: should fetchlands even be in this deck?

Pros:
1) Synergy with Crucible of Worlds
2) Deck thinning (very irrelevant, though, since you only run 4)

Cons:
1) Life loss, which can be quite significant in addition to the Ancient Tombs
2) Vulnerability to Stifle

It seems to me that Cons > Pros. A card that is only good with another card (Pro#1) qualifies as a bad card. Thoughts?

Machinus
03-21-2007, 11:18 AM
I just noticed: should fetchlands even be in this deck?

Pros:
1) Synergy with Crucible of Worlds
2) Deck thinning (very irrelevant, though, since you only run 4)

Cons:
1) Life loss, which can be quite significant in addition to the Ancient Tombs
2) Vulnerability to Stifle

It seems to me that Cons > Pros. A card that is only good with another card (Pro#1) qualifies as a bad card. Thoughts?

I'd address your post but it's obvious to anyone who has played this deck how essential they are. Please do some testing.

troopatroop
03-21-2007, 02:56 PM
Oh my god! Don't you guys read what i posted? You guys already jumped to your own conclusion and assumed I'm stupid. Troopatroop can you read my posts before saying I'm an idiot then after you read what i posted maybe you can stop your idiocy? Why would I suggest to use 3 burning of xinye, 3 wildfire and 4 burning wish if I don't know what I'm suggesting?

To the people who have a really low I.Q and didn't get what I said:
2 ofs right? So only 4 Wildfire effects. Not having Burning Wish to get them makes it random, it just can't be in your hand when you really need to Wildfire. So, the 2 ofs are not the ones that are making it random, it's the fact that you only have 4 Wildfire effects and nothing to search for them or to get them with.

Some of that was so unbelievably senseless and impossible to read or make sense of that I didn't even bother. There's really no way to fix...


No burning wish to get them which makes it random, it just can't be in your hand when you really need to wildfire.

Into a constructive or understandable point without completely changing it. So I'll leave the worst as it is.

Considering the fact that you fail at typing a single coherant statement, reading your posts only makes understanding you worse. Have you considered that fact that behind all of your smily faces and run on sentances there may be meaning to you, but in fact, all we see are words that make no sense?

Blasphemy! We all must be mind readers.

Taking into account the fact that I can site at least 5 instances when people have "misunderstood you", you might want to take into account that it's not us anymore. It's you.

Besides the fact that you're grammatically retarded, you're also wrong. The deck isn't reliant on Wildfire, and running 6 with Burning Wish backup would be overly redundant on a 6cc Card that you don't want to see multiples of the majority of the time.

Regardless, I don't want to flame, So I'll simply report it.

Cait_Sith
03-21-2007, 03:07 PM
I'd address your post but it's obvious to anyone who has played this deck how essential they are. Please do some testing.

Let us not flame. He does bring up a valid point that all that life loss does hurt Stax in its aggro matchups. It can easily become a race for Wildfire game 1.

Ravage
03-22-2007, 02:05 AM
Does anyone have an updated list that they are using? The first post in the thread is from October. Has this list been updated? Is Covetous Dragon still the popular creature for this deck?

Radley
03-22-2007, 04:58 AM
Some of that was so unbelievably senseless and impossible to read or make sense of that I didn't even bother. There's really no way to fix...



Into a constructive or understandable point without completely changing it. So I'll leave the worst as it is.

Considering the fact that you fail at typing a single coherant statement, reading your posts only makes understanding you worse. Have you considered that fact that behind all of your smily faces and run on sentances there may be meaning to you, but in fact, all we see are words that make no sense?

Blasphemy! We all must be mind readers.

Taking into account the fact that I can site at least 5 instances when people have "misunderstood you", you might want to take into account that it's not us anymore. It's you.

Besides the fact that you're grammatically retarded, you're also wrong. The deck isn't reliant on Wildfire, and running 6 with Burning Wish backup would be overly redundant on a 6cc Card that you don't want to see multiples of the majority of the time.

Regardless, I don't want to flame, So I'll simply report it.

You don't want to flame? Read your post again and tell me if you didn't flame. And if you read my last post, you'll see that I'm not pushing the idea of adding more wildfire/burning xinye and burning wish so just drop it.

Well, english isn't my native language so pardon me if you can't understand my grammar. If you can't understand me, just ignore me and don't flame. Stop spamming please troopatroop, you can just PM me if you just want to flame.

Zilla
03-22-2007, 07:12 AM
This is like watching a couple of monkies trying to fuck a football. Get the conversation back on topic now. The first post out of either of you that even remotely resembles a flame is getting a warning.

Cait_Sith
03-22-2007, 08:24 AM
Does anyone have an updated list that they are using? The first post in the thread is from October. Has this list been updated? Is Covetous Dragon still the popular creature for this deck?

When I was testing it I found the Dragon to still be viable. He is a 3 turn clock for a reasonable amount of mana and if he dies because you control no artifacts you might have lost the game anyway.

Deger
03-22-2007, 09:10 AM
I've been running the dragon in mine as well as Karn. I have been thinking of running welders in the board and I start to think about all the neat things they can do and I think Triskellion would be massive then I want to main deck the welders because I feel I would be boarding them in for most matchups..

I know he hits the table with a big target but you know this is what the threads are for.

Bane of the Living
03-23-2007, 04:40 PM
Arc-Slogger > All. I'd play 4 if it weren't for Needle. I played 3 Slogger, 3 Covetous in my build. Or maybe it was 3/2.

Hes a win condition that removes perms, anyone who looks at this guy and scratches their head needs just needs to untap with him.

Machinus
03-23-2007, 06:00 PM
Depending on your manabase and disruption suite, one may be better than the other. I prefer to play with the most powerful manabase possible, which means turn 2/3 Dragons, which is only possible due due to the single R requirement. I don't play with Arc-Slogger mainly because I run the more broken manabase and I dedicate a significant amount of deck space to efficient creature removal.

Barsoom
07-18-2007, 01:50 PM
Many many days no one post here; i restart with my current decklist:

Wildfire Stax

4 Wildfire
4 Covetous Dragon
2 Arc-Slogger
2 Shivan Wumpus

4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Pyroclasm

3 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Crystal Vein
3 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
5 Mountain

Sideboard:
4 Defence Grid
3 Bottled Cloister
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pyroclasm

Some tips:
* Shivan Wumpus is a fantastic creature in this deck, expecially after a wildfire, and cost 1 less mana than dragon.
* the Slogger is here to finish the enemy at low life and to wipe the board when you don't have pyroclasm.
* i use Wasteland instead of Mishra cause for me they are more synergical with the deck and help doing the lock; i run 8 creature total in place of mishras.

Ok now let's go with suggestions or so...

Silverdragon
07-18-2007, 06:29 PM
Uhm nice manabase...
Seriously playing only 22 lands when you have 4 Mox Diamonds but only 3 Crucibles seems a bit risky. Only 3 Ancient Tombs? Did they hurt you that much? Perhaps you should cut some fetchlands for basics and turn some 3 of's into 4 of's. Shivan Wumpus is a nice idea but not needed imho. Mishra's Factory is good because it is an uncounterable threat and can block Lackey and friends (although you shouldn't need it for this often because of Pyroclasm MD).
I'd at least take out the Wumpuses (Wumpi?) for another Mountain and an Ancient Tomb.

Barsoom
07-19-2007, 02:46 PM
The manabase work very well for me; is very difficult i got a problem with a land for mox diamond and i never mulligan for mana; ancient tomb is a crazy card, very strong but quite problematic; 3 is the top, 4 is too dangerous.

Barsoom
09-11-2008, 06:13 PM
First, sorry for the insane big necro (actually, more than an year...)

I still own and play sometimes with this deck; it will never be a tier 1, but it's quite strong against aggro, and fun to play.

Maybe there is somebody else that's still playing this? i'm asking for new cards suggestions, comments, what do you want; i'll post my actual decklist later (quite the same of 1 year ago lol).

_erbs_
09-22-2008, 04:34 AM
Hello,
Its been a long time since i've played magic i've stopped for around 4-5 years or so, just want to share the my thoughts on wildfire stax cause this was my last deck i've used before i stopped playing

my suggestion would be something like this:

LANDs
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
2 Wasteland
1 Barbarian Ring
12 mountains
24

MANA ARTIFACTs
4 mox diamond
1 talisman r/g
1 worn powerstone
6

LOCKs
4 wildfire
4 stone rain
3 demolish
2 pillage
3 smokestack
4 trinishphere
3 chalice of the void
3 crusible of worlds
26

CREATUREs
2 covetous dragon
3 shivan wumpus
5

Its almost the same list as my old list the only difference is the shivan wumpus. previously i ran 4 covetous dragon. Wildfire stax is a very fun deck to play and a strong deck pre board, normally i get problems after game 2 when SBs cards enters the game.

I removed tanglewire wire from my list and opted to go semi landy for the following reasons:
1. tanglewire - buys you time, makes smokestack awsome
- doesn't remove any permaments

2. demolish - destorys land and artifact 4 to cast though

3. stone rain - destorys land 3 to cast only
- you can 1st turn cast it slowng dwn your oppent more

4. pillage - sometimes is stuck in my hand due to the RR requirement
- 3 to cast destorys land and artifact

5. shivan whumpus - 4 to cast 6/6 trample can withstand your wildfire, has landy effect
- vs some decks which has tons of lands would be a pain

6. pyroclasm - didn't add it to my list as it has almost the same effect with wildfire

7. goblin welder - an excellent card but dies very easily in legacy format, has confilict with CoV

A pain with this deck are the pro red critters and a good mix of mana is to permament destruction is what i can't figure out. I would like to more mana producing artifacts but i can't find or know of any good mana artifacts, talisman are nice but kinda slow. With the current list i have 5 lands that would explode that gives you temopary 2 cc mana, if they are destoryed it would slow your pace and sometimes find it hard to cast wildfire at a earlier time

I tried a similar variant that runs 3 sylvan and 3 uba mask for library manipulation and limiting your opponents options to get out of your tanglewire lock, but again thats only good for 2-3 turns and during those times your you cant draw your covetous dragon for the win his more or less going to over come the soft lock. When you get hit by suppression field or wasteland sylvan is going to be a dead card for you.

I still have hopes that this deck could be part of the deck to beat list maybe today or in the future