[Deck] The Ex-Girlfriend

[Complete_Jank]

First the name, the deck's two main win conditions Angel & Braids. (There's Trenches, but we won't go there.) Well, my Ex is quite the Angel, but on the other hand she's one Crazy B----!!!

I have played this deck at two large tourneys, and often at the Friday Night Legacy Tourneys as well. (Usually 35 or more players on Fridays)

I like to refer to this deck as the Tier 1 Deck Slaughterer. It's matchup against most all the better decks is better than 70%. Solidarity, Goblins, and Threshold all pack up and practically conceed to this deck. Combo decks don't fair well either.

The problem of this deck is getting paired against decks that are not the normal run of the mill decks, or decks like Fairy/Angel Stompy, it also has difficulty with Mono Blue Control, if it doesn't get the jump. This leans towards being a hate deck, and kind of suffers similar as a hate deck when it playes against decks it isn't designed to play against.


Land - 25
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
2 Badland
1 Plateau
4 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Cabal Pit
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland

Disruption - 26
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
3 Engineered Plague
3 Crucible of Worlds

Win Conditions - 9
2 Goblin Trenches
4 Braids, Cabal Minion
3 Exalted Angel


Sideboard - 15
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Pyroclasm
1 Engineered Plague
3 Cabal Therapy

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Now, to explain why I run what I do, and why I don't run some cards that most will say should be in this deck.


Lands - I splash red for Goblin Trenches and other Sideboard possibilities.

I have thought about running Barbarian Ring, but don't like the thought of running another non-black producing land, but more so that it also would need the rare color of red.

I have run in the past, three Mishra's Factories, because I play here in San Diego, and playing against multiple players playing 4 color BHWC Landstill decks in a tourney with those factories and 4 Wasteland back up is pretty strong.

Cabal Pit - Strong vs Goblins, Huge vs M. Mages, also kills lone Mishra's Factories.

Ancient Tomb - Powers Chalice of the Void and Angel

Wasteland - I don't think there is much arguement to this being in here.



Spells - Not the typical spells for a Braids deck, but there's a reason.

Chalice of the Void - This deck is actually built around this card, thus the lack of more common cards in the deck. This card is the card that helps turn the tide in most match-ups.

Duress - Makes the cut main because of first turn Ritual->Duress->Chalice or Sinkhole. Duress lets you know what you are playing against, and you want to know what to know what to Chalice of the Void for.

Dark Ritual - one of two sources of Mana accel

Sinkhole - Best LD. <- Notice the Period.

Vindicate - Complete target removal.

Engineered Plague - Huge vs Goblins, Strong vs mainy other decks.

Crucible of Worlds - One of the strongest cards in the deck. Reuseable Wastelands and Cabal Pits.


Win Conditions - Other than Braids, many of these win conditions are not typical, but make so much sense.

Goblin Trenches - Nice by itself, but with Crucible of Worlds, it is a huge win condition. With Braids, each Land becomes 2 more turns, not just one.

Braids, Cabal Minion - Well, she's Braids, not much explainning here.

Exalted Angel - This makes the cut because of the loss of Life by Ancient Tombs, and the fact that she is just too huge, and can actually race goblins with other disruption. She though not often is actually one more first turn answer to a first turn Goblin Lacky. Ritual->Morph is effective enough to hold off for 1 if not 2 turns. She can be played turn two and swing turn three face up with Ancient Tomb, and gain back all the life lost by Ancient tomb.

I use to run Plague Spitters, but too often they could be killed by a single Mogg Fanatic, and weren't worth the risk of also lossing a Braids too. Plague at the same cost is usually there for the rest of the game in game one.


Sideboard - This usually changes somewhat depending on where I play.

Leyline of the Void - Threshold & Iggy killer, along with other decks like reanimator.

Hymn to Tourach - Goes in against Control and Combo.

Pyroclasm - Good against goblins.

Engineered Plague - 4th for the goblin match-up.

Cabal Therapy - Against Combo it goes in.

I have run Pithing Needles in the side over Cabal Therapy.

I have also run Darkblast over Pyroclasm, if I think there will be less other aggro decks, and mostlt just goblins. Why you ask? Goblins with Chalice @Two and two Plagues is a win.

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Now about cards most people think should be in this deck.

Before I go in to each card, first think of this. This deck is designed to maximize Chalice of the Void, and not be hurt by the Chalice itself, or to minimize the effect.

In the main deck, there are 8 total cards that cost one mana, and there are only 4 total cards that cost two mana.

Swords to Plowshares - In the decks that you would want to use it against, Chalice @1 is a better play, or even Engineered Plague is better.

Ravenous Rats - I believe control over board position is better than hand disruption in most match-ups, and for the match-ups that it matters, the sideboard makes up for it.


Any questions about others just ask.



EDIT #1: Corrected City of Traitors to Ancient Tomb which is what it should have been in the first place.

[jazzykat]

I love the title. So would you attach the same warning on this deck as what should go on Stax decks..."Don't play these in Jank Metas"?

[Complete_Jank]

I love the title. So would you attach the same warning on this deck as what should go on Stax decks..."Don't play these in Jank Metas"?

I wouldn't actually go that far and say that, but it does loose its potency against decks that aren't designed to be as effeceint as possible with mana costs.

I have played it against decks in Jank Metas, and still top 8'ed. What you have to realize is that the possibility to not completely control the game is there.

I played this Day one at the Star City Duel for Duals, and out of 7 rounds I didn't play a single Match vs Goblins, Solidarity, Threshold, or Iggy-pop, I even won first round and played in the winner's bracket, but still no luck.

[MasterBlaster]

Has Gerard's Verdict been tested?

With your high land count you could always point it at yourself for a quick 6 life if you need to.

[freakish777]

I have to question your Threshold match. How are you preventing a Threshed Mongoose backed by Daze/FoW from going all the way? It seems like you have 3 Exalteds that trump their creatures or a combination of Crucible + Braids or Crucible + Trenches to avoid getting run over by a Mongoose or 2. Sure, hitting thresh and Cabal Pitting a Mage is good, and Vindicate for Wearbear is ok, but I don't see any good ways of handling a fast Mongoose that becomes 3/3 on turn 3 or so and is backed with countermagic.

Am I missing something? I realize your land destruction is pretty good against them, but losing the roll into them playing Mongoose just seems like you lose.

[Finn]

Well, if he has Goblin Trenches and Crucible in play, barring a Pithing Needle, he is in excellent shape against said Mongoose.

I am interested in what the Engineered Plague is for. Goblins? umm...really?

[Cavius The Great]

@Complete Jank - Have you considered Mox Diamond? It's rather good with Crucible along with your 25 land count. It also accelerates most the cards in your deck, like a first turn Chalice for example.

[Peter_Rotten]

Exalted Angel - This makes the cut because of the loss of Life by Ancient Tombs, and the fact that she is just too huge, and can actually race goblins with other disruption. She though not often is actually one more first turn answer to a first turn Goblin Lacky. Ritual->Morph is effective enough to hold off for 1 if not 2 turns. She can be played turn two and swing turn three face up with Ancient Tomb, and gain back all the life lost by Ancient tomb.

I'm confused. No where in your posted list do I see Ancient Tomb. Am I blind or did you confuse City of Traitors with Ancient Tomb?

[Complete_Jank]

I'm confused. No where in your posted list do I see Ancient Tomb. Am I blind or did you confuse City of Traitors with Ancient Tomb?

EDIT #1: Corrected City of Traitors to Ancient Tomb which is what it should have been in the first place.


I have to question your Threshold match. How are you preventing a Threshed Mongoose backed by Daze/FoW from going all the way? It seems like you have 3 Exalteds that trump their creatures or a combination of Crucible + Braids or Crucible + Trenches to avoid getting run over by a Mongoose or 2. Sure, hitting thresh and Cabal Pitting a Mage is good, and Vindicate for Wearbear is ok, but I don't see any good ways of handling a fast Mongoose that becomes 3/3 on turn 3 or so and is backed with countermagic.

Am I missing something? I realize your land destruction is pretty good against them, but losing the roll into them playing Mongoose just seems like you lose.


Yes, There come games that a mongoose will go down turn one and finish off the game. The key is to draw one of the win conditions pure and simple. If you don't, Engineered Plague will slow the death, or maybe kill Mongoose early. I had this happen to me on Friday. I just won the next two games.

Chalice one vs Threshold is so much better than you think. Say good by to everything pretty much. Waste cripples them as well.


Has Gerard's Verdict been tested?

With your high land count you could always point it at yourself for a quick 6 life if you need to.

This card was thought about when constructing the deck, but it falls into two different reasons why I choose not to play this card.

1.) The Mana Cost is 2, and you don't want to chalice for 2 and stop 8 cards in your deck that do something big. Duress is the only spell that really matters when you drop a Chalice @1. Dark Ritual is usually meant to bring out Chalices, Crucibles, Plagues, Braids, and Angels early. After Turn 2 Dark Rituals lose their effectiveness. The only thing they are good for after Turn 3 is hard Casting an Angel, or playing around Daze.

2.) The card by itself isn't board control, and that is what this deck is all about. It isn't even a good disruption to combo or control as they pick the cards that they discard. This choice of discard could allow a deck to discard cards that would throw me off to what they are actually playing as well.


Well, if he has Goblin Trenches and Crucible in play, barring a Pithing Needle, he is in excellent shape against said Mongoose.

I am interested in what the Engineered Plague is for. Goblins? umm...really?

Plague is for the Goblin Match-up mostly, however it does serve other purposes often, here's some other uses:
-Some Rogue Elf decks are played because of their quickness, and this also crushes them, specially with their dependence on elves as mana, rather than lands.
-In Welder match-ups once again Goblin is named.
-Against normal Black White I name Shade or Wizard.
-Against Rifter or other decks playing Decree, I name Soldier.
-I played a game the other night against Fish where I named Wizard, Drake and Fairy, which won me the game, because all creatures had 1 toughness.
-Finally against Threshold it is a delay, but more importantly a counter spell drawing item.

The card's use is adaptive to most any deck that wins with creatures, and sides out in the matchups that don't matter.


@Complete Jank - Have you considered Mox Diamond? It's rather good with Crucible along with your 25 land count. It also accelerates most the cards in your deck, like a first turn Chalice for example.

I haven't thought much about Mox Diamond too much because against Combo decks like Iggy, Charbelcher, and Salvagers you chalice for 0.

Also, I don't look at the fact that I have 25 land. It is more like 21 land. Wastelands I count morre towards LD, but they are mana also. In some match-ups, the single mountain gets sideboarded out depending on certain factors, even if they are playing Wasteland.


Playing Diamonds would allow 2nd turn morphed attacking Angel though. I like the thought of it, but it would have to be play tested in the place of the Dark Rituals.

In one of the older versions of the deck I did run 2 Chainer's Edicts which helped with Mongoose, but they didn't help in the Goblins and other match-ups as much as the Engineered Plagues do.

[Tacosnape]

I don't buy for a minute that this beats Vial Goblins consistently when your entire goblin removal base consists of 3 Engineered Plagues, 4 Vindicates, and the ever-fragile Crucible/Cabal Pit. This sounds highly untested.

How exactly is your deck surviving a turn one Lackey if you don't have Ritual/Plague or double Plague in hand?

[Complete_Jank]

I don't buy for a minute that this beats Vial Goblins consistently when your entire goblin removal base consists of 3 Engineered Plagues, 4 Vindicates, and the ever-fragile Crucible/Cabal Pit. This sounds highly untested.

How exactly is your deck surviving a turn one Lackey if you don't have Ritual/Plague or double Plague in hand?


Question it if you want. If goblins goes first, then yes it can play a lacky, but if I go first, a typical first turn is chalice one, because the top three decks abuse that more than other casting costs, and goblins only abuses that on first turn.

In game one a Plague is more devistating to goblins, because there is no removal for it, so it leaves them hurting for permanents, and only Gempalm then is the answer for Braids and Angel. If you get two, it is game over. <- Notice the period.

Goblin Trenches is good against Goblins to hold off until you draw the Engineered Plague, for about 1 or 2 turns at most if they go the route of Vials.

Many times the match-up comes down to one of 6 cards, either the Angles or the Plagues, but after the side board, the match up is so much stronger.

The %'s given are the Match %'s, not game %'s. Playtesting Sideboarded is very key, because you will play more games after sideboard than you will before sideboarded.

If you doubt the deck, test it. I top 8 with this deck all the time when I play it, including some larger tourneys. The results are even posted here on the source. I've played this deck for about two years. My name is Mike, and play here in San Diego at Game Empire, look up past results. I wasn't even posting on any MTG forums when I started playing this deck, or when they were posting my results.

The results from last week: I took second after the first place finisher and I intentionally drew and split the winnings in the final round. The deciding factor that he got first came on breakers because one of my opponents had one less match win.

But you are welcome to continue doubting the deck.

Now that you bring it up Tacosnape, this should have been posted in the Open Legacy Discussion Forum (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=24)instead of New and Developmental.

Maybe a mod can do us the favor of moving it.

[UrDraco]

Hey Mike

Have you though about the inclusion of the new card, Flagstones of Trokair. It seems pretty nutty to sac a land that replaces itself when it dies. Especially if you have Crucible + Braids in play.

[Phantom]

If you doubt the deck, test it.

I did, in fact. I went 50-50 with Thresh, but it wasn't enough games to be certain, so that's no biggie.

I did, however, test the Goblins matchup extensively and it wasn't pretty. I went 1-9 preboard and a much improved 2-8 postboard. I gotta say, this deck is just terrible against Goblins. I'm new to the deck, so I'm sure I made some play errors, but even a pro couldn't pull this matchup up to 50/50. Really, there wasn't that much room for play error since the curve is so high and Goblins was denying mana like it does. The one game I won preboard was due to a Chalice @1 on the play (this happened one other time, but Tinkerer took it out). Postboard, Pyroclasm helped, but it's very difficult to keep red lands around, let alone red mana around to the main phase.

I only got Goblin Trenches up twice, and once it got disenchanted. I never flipped an angel. Braids was always on desperation blocking duty. The mana base is just a mess; I was hardly ever able to fetch basics. etc. etc. etc.

Basically, the deck felt like this hybrid between AngelStax and Deadguy, but was too slow to set up to compete with Goblins.

Edit: (Maybe Mox Diamond is a good idea.)

[Complete_Jank]

Hey Mike

Have you though about the inclusion of the new card, Flagstones of Trokair. It seems pretty nutty to sac a land that replaces itself when it dies. Especially if you have Crucible + Braids in play.

I like the thought Jason, and I might try and run some, but getting stuck on one might change cause problems. As it is now, the mana base only has 5 lands with white. However, with two of them, it is mana accel of one mana for one turn, because you can tap the first one before you play the second.

We'll have to play test it. We should also try Diamonds in place of Rituals I guess. Are you finally back in town?

I have been thinking now that Time Spiral is legal of running Small Pox. I have some ideas I'll talk with you later.

[freakish777]

Well, if he has Goblin Trenches and Crucible in play, barring a Pithing Needle, he is in excellent shape against said Mongoose.

He's actually going to resolve Trenches/Crucible? And they aren't going to find Needle?

I did however miss Chalice @ 1. That still requires you to be on the play. And a "smart" Threshold play is going to just have his cards countered so he can hit Thresh quicker and beatdown before you go "late game."

[Zilla]

Double posting is against site rules and is a waste of moderative time to clean up. Stop it.

[Nightmare]

Please keep the discussion on topic, the PMs in the PM box, and leave the modding to the mods. Huzzah.

[Complete_Jank]

UrDraco, thought you were Jaco, sorry about that.

I tried play testing the Mox Diamonds, and it didn't really work out well. If I ever drew two I had to mulligan.

Mox Diamonds become 2-for-1's with Braids against me. Also, even though it doesn't seem like it, Dark Ritual is a better top deck later.

Senario:
I top deck Dark Ritual. I can use it to activate Goblin Trenches for more tokens, hard casting an Exaulted Angel, or playing a Crucible or morphed angel at one land with Braids on the table already. Mox Diamonds are worthless late game as Dark Rituals have at least some use, and this deck always pushes into a late game, where extra mana could be useful.


Mike, you should post up your tourney report soon so everyone can get a feel for our random meta. Thanks for the help again, I appreciate it.


BTW, I've posted this deck so others can see a strong deck that I've been playing.

This deck was mainly pushed by myself as a deck to make better and competitve, but the same people that helped bring you San Diego Zoo and 4c BHWC Landstill have had inputs on this deck as well.

I started with white, but it was still lacking in some match-ups. I then took a new approach and decided on Chalice of the Void to help control the board position, and designed the deck around the card itself. The match-ups improved, but still had some issues with certain match-ups, and thus I looked to splash a 3rd color for fillers for lost cards removed to improve because of the redesign around the Chalice. I originally looked at going green because of P. Deed, but didn't like how Chalice of the Void was wiped off as well. Running Blue led to trying for too much, and at the time a friend was playing a deck with Goblin Trenches, so I tried it in the deck, and it has proven worth it time and time again.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now for the Tourney reports.
Two weeks ago.
Small turn out as states was the next morning.
Round 1 vs. Brand
-Game 1: I play first. Basic Swamp pass the turn. He plays fetch and fetches, and plays Vial. Turn two I play a fetch and fetch to cast Sinkhole on his land. He plays a land and casts 2nd Vial. Turn Three I play Ancient Tomb and cast Chalice for 1. He misses land drop and moves counters up, now two and one. Turn Four, I play Braids and a fetch land. End of turn he puts Dark Confident into play. He sacs a Vial, and plays a volcanic island. Turn Five, I sac the fetch land, play Engineered Plague, and wasteland his land. He conceeds.

-Game 2: No SB. Turn one, he plays a fetch land. I fetch Scrubland, use Dark Ritual, Duress, and for first time, see what he is playing. I take Mystical Tutor or something else that digs for cards, and Chalice for 1. Turn two, he plays a land. I play Ancient Tomb and cast Crucible of Worlds. Turn three, seems like he's got a bad hand. I play swamp and braids and follow it up on turn four with a Chalice 2 off another Ancient Tomb. End of Match.

Match 2-0


Round 2 vs. R/U Fish (All three games were long slow wins of attrition)
-Game 1: I use 2 Plagues to eliminate 2/3's of his creatures, and Angel beats for win.

-Game 2: SB in Plagues and Pyroclasms. Sword of Fire and Ice cause problems as did double Vial turn one and two.

-Game 3: Plagues wins me game with Chalice at one and two.

Match 2-1


Round 3 vs.GRU Threshold
-Game 1: He plays first and drops Mongoose. I destroy all lands and Duress one of his FOUR Force of Wills. I play three Engineered Plagues, two are Forced. The other one resolves one turn late and Mongoose goes the distance as I never draw a win condition the entire game. Game ends with him only having Mongoose.

-Game 2: I SB in Leyline of the Void & Hymn to Tourach. I SB out Duress. Leyline drops for the game. I Chalice 1 and get a Braids to drop with extra mana. She goes the distance.

-Game 3: Leyline hits against, but it doesn't matter, as I obliterate his hand with Hymns and making him Force all the LD. I drop the Braids and wipe the board encluding Mongoose. Once Chalice one resolves, he scoops.

Match 2-1


Round 4 vs. Gro (We intentionally draw, but he won the game for fun)

Tourney Result: 3-0-1

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last Friday
Round 1 vs. Vial Goblins
-Game 1: I go first. I think he might be playing Goblins because of red sleeves, but play according to what my openning hand has. (Fetch Land, Scrubland, Wasteland, Goblin Trenches, Duress, and 2x Engineered Plagues) I play Scrubland and Duress. I take nothing, but see Goblins and a waste. He wastes my land, and I never see another land or Dark Ritual, and lose turn 8 or 9 to a slow goblins hand with two land.

-Game 2: I SB Plagues and Pyroclasms. I go first again. I keep a hand with Chalice, Plague, and Pyroclasm. Turn two I Pyroclasm, turn three I chalice for two. Turn four and five I drop plagues, as I draw one, but had expected to send Braids to destroy a permanent and block.

-Game 3: I mulligan once and see a Plague but a slow hand, but I keep. He drops lacky turn one off a fetch. I play a Swamp. He hits with Lacky and drops SGC, then casts Piledriver after dropping a mountain. I draw a Ancient Tomb and Drop Engineered Plague and save myself from death for a turn. He plays a mountain and casts Warchief and smacks me for 6. I play a swamp and cast Morphed Angel, which blocks a Piledriver on his turn. He plays Matron and then plays a Piledriver and attacks. I take 8, and sit at 1. I draw Engineered Plague and outcries are heard through the store, both from him and myself. He fails to draw a fetch or dual land. I draw a non-fetchland and Chalice for 2. I take a bunch of complaints, as I got lucky, but then again, he got lucky game one.

Match: 2-1


Round 2 vs. 4c BHWC Landstill
-Game 1: After complete control falls to his side, I conceed.

-Game 2: I SB in Hymns and take out plagues & 1 Chalice. I follow with hand disruption, and keep him to less than four lands. I force him to use counters and removal on Disruption, LD, Braids, and Angels. I then drop the Crucible with Wasteland for control and eventually follow it with Ritual Braids.

-Game 3: Isn't finished.

Match: 1-1-1


Round 3 vs. R/U Fish
-Game 1: I win game one with Angel and eliminate with Plagues.

-Game 2: I had superior board position Trenches, Crucible, Cabal Pit, Wasteland, and got cocky plain and simple. I should have cast the braids from my hand, but instead I tried to beat him with the board. He made the remark that he could counter anything I played, and I made the remark that I wasn't going to need to cast anything the rest of the game. I should have to force counters and take control with Braids. He won on turns.

Match: 1-1-0


Round 4 vs. Mono Blue Stacks (type deck)
-Game 1: He goes first and wins, pure and simple. He plays a card once he has three mana called Paradox Haze (http://www.cardkingdom.com/card_viewer.php?sid=108547157&pid=121332) I sac my Braids first, and play out the game to see what he is running.

-Game 2: I SB Hymn and Cabal Therapy. Turn one I play Therapy and name Mox Diamond to prevent mana accel, as I have Hymns and LD. All I have to draw is a 4th land, Dark Ritual, more LD, Cabal Therapy, Duress, Hymn(Two Cards), Angel to flash Cabal Therapy, matter of fact there are very few non win cards to lock with Braids. I just can't draw More Braids, Goblin Trenches, or Crucibles. Too make a long story short, I draw Goblin Trenches, more Braids and Crucibles for three turns.

The percent chance of that happening is less than 0.4%, and that is just drawing on those three draws, and not counting the initial draw for the game.

I really liked this deck. He posts on here, and I hope he shares the deck with you guys, but I won't give much else away, even though that one card is the main strength of the deck.

Match: 0-2


Round 5 vs. R/W Aggro/Burn/Zoo type deck.
-Game 1: I'm still on tilt from the last game, and don't bother to Chalice for one and two and they are in my hand. I lose game one.

-Game 2: I Chalice for 1 and 2 and win with Braids.

-Game 3: I chalice one early, and Chalice 2, but inresponse have Chalice 1 disenchanted. I Play Goblin Trenches w/Crucible and hold against aggro. Cabal Pit wipes the flankers. She plays something to destroy the Trenches, Thinking back, probably disenchant with my Chalice for 2, and I let it resolve. I Ritual three times and make 8 1/1's. I beat down over 3 turn and win the game.

Match: 2-1

Tourney Results: 2-1-2

I should have never have gotten over confident, as it then put me up against the deck that beat me. Had I won I wouldn't have gotten paired against a deck that utterly destroys my deck with a single card.

[Cavius The Great]

...


Doesn't Chalice have bad synergy with Duress? I'd say go either or.

[Complete_Jank]

Doesn't Chalice have bad synergy with Duress? I'd say go either or.

No. When you play Chalice you are going to block something in the deck unless you play it for "0"

Duress is used as a first turn spell to find out what they are playing. You can also have your own spells countered if you need to get Threshold.

There are games where you don't Chalice for 1.

[Cavius The Great]

UrDraco, thought you were Jaco, sorry about that.

I tried play testing the Mox Diamonds, and it didn't really work out well. If I ever drew two I had to mulligan.

Mox Diamonds become 2-for-1's with Braids against me. Also, even though it doesn't seem like it, Dark Ritual is a better top deck later.

Senario:
I top deck Dark Ritual. I can use it to activate Goblin Trenches for more tokens, hard casting an Exaulted Angel, or playing a Crucible or morphed angel at one land with Braids on the table already. Mox Diamonds are worthless late game as Dark Rituals have at least some use, and this deck always pushes into a late game, where extra mana could be useful.


Your forgetting one key aspect of Mox Diamond. It not only accelerates your spells, it also has a good amount of synergy with Crucible. I still think it's something to consider, even at a 2-3 count.

[Complete_Jank]

Your forgetting one key aspect of Mox Diamond. It not only accelerates your spells, it also has a good amount of synergy with Crucible. I still think it's something to consider, even at a 2-3 count.

I play tested some games with it, and it wasn't worth it. It needs a land to work, and the land is not useable again.

Also, if the diamond is countered, it then becomes a 2-for-1. Mox Diamond allows too many chances for a 2-for-1 in the opponents favor.

It is acceleration, but not exactly what the deck needs.

If you have to have Crucible to get your land back, now you need 3 cards to make Mox Diamond work.

Dark Ritual allows more mana when it is needed.


Also, one thing you guys aren't seeing is that 4 of the lands are Wastelands, and are considered LD, and not Lands, thus only 21 lands in the deck.

[Cavius The Great]

Also, one thing you guys aren't seeing is that 4 of the lands are Wastelands, and are considered LD, and not Lands, thus only 21 lands in the deck.

I've found myself, numerous times, using wasteland as mana. It's really something you only do in a pinch, but to say that they're not considered lands is misleading.

[Complete_Jank]

I've found myself, numerous times, using wasteland as mana. It's really something you only do in a pinch, but to say that they're not considered lands is misleading.

In some kind of counts I consider them as 1/2 a land, but I don't really count them as lands in this deck, because I will almost never hesitate to use them to destroy a land.

[Goblin Snowman]

I play tested some games with it, and it wasn't worth it. It needs a land to work, and the land is not useable again.

Also, if the diamond is countered, it then becomes a 2-for-1. Mox Diamond allows too many chances for a 2-for-1 in the opponents favor.

It is acceleration, but not exactly what the deck needs.

If you have to have Crucible to get your land back, now you need 3 cards to make Mox Diamond work.

Dark Ritual allows more mana when it is needed.


Also, one thing you guys aren't seeing is that 4 of the lands are Wastelands, and are considered LD, and not Lands, thus only 21 lands in the deck.

The land is not usable again only if you can't find Crucible. Dark Rit is card disadvantage, like if whatever you're Ritting out is countered. Also, the only time someone would counter a Mox is with Force of Will, which almost never happenes. And is color fixes better, powering out T2 Trenches or Morphs, then flipping the morph.

[Complete_Jank]

The land is not usable again only if you can't find Crucible. Dark Rit is card disadvantage, like if whatever you're Ritting out is countered. Also, the only time someone would counter a Mox is with Force of Will, which almost never happenes. And is color fixes better, powering out T2 Trenches or Morphs, then flipping the morph.

I understand the advantages of playing Mox Diamond, like swinging with a Morphed Angel, or Crucible wasteland lock turn two, but Dark Ritual is not always a 2-for-1. Dark Ritual can be used just to prevent having to tap out when playing around daze. It is also used to pay for Goblin Trenches.

Once again, mid to late game, Dark Ritual is better than Mox Diamond as a top deck.

Also I would like to note that even if you find a Crucible of Worlds, it still has to resolve to get that land back.

One more thing...
If you have two Dark Rituals in your opening hand, you don't really have to Muligan, but if you have two Mox Diamonds, you almost always have to.

[Cavius The Great]

Why not go 2 Rituals/2 Diamonds? Nobody ever said anything about totally cutting the Dark Rituals.

[Complete_Jank]

Why not go 2 Rituals/2 Diamonds? Nobody ever said anything about totally cutting the Dark Rituals.


I was actually just thinking this over as you posted this, but still like 4 dark rituals for consistency. I will continue to play test it differently, but I really think it is better with out because of reasons already stated.

[UrDraco]

Hey Mike,

I was the one playing the Mono-U stacks and do plan on posting a decklist once I have the deck tuned corretly, currently transmute artifact and Thirst for Knowledge are fighting for the same spot in the deck. But now for my advise.

Mox diamond in a deck that runs crucible is awesome. I do think It would be good as a 2-3 of because it allows for 1st turn chalice for 1, or hymn, or double duress or all sorts of evil. Oh, and did you try any flagstones of trokair or did you just not have any room in the deck?

[Complete_Jank]

Hey Mike,

I was the one playing the Mono-U stacks and do plan on posting a decklist once I have the deck tuned corretly, currently transmute artifact and Thirst for Knowledge are fighting for the same spot in the deck. But now for my advise.

Mox diamond in a deck that runs crucible is awesome. I do think It would be good as a 2-3 of because it allows for 1st turn chalice for 1, or hymn, or double duress or all sorts of evil. Oh, and did you try any flagstones of trokair or did you just not have any room in the deck?

I only have 5 White Producing lands in the deck, and don't even have a single Plains. I might look into changing out one Badland for one Flagstone of Trokair, and maybe a swamp, but I really don't want to cut black sources.

Goblin Trenches is strong, however I have been debating about using Mobilization or Sacred Mesa, which are both slightly less potent for the activation costs and upkeep, and they both only produce one token.

If cut Red and go Black/White, it might work then with Flagstone of Trokair.

BTW, that Mono U stacks is pretty nice, but I still can't believe you won game two.

Did you see that I calculated the % of that happening?

Your deck is probably the one deck I don't want to have to face.

[Cavius The Great]

Hey Mike,

I was the one playing the Mono-U stacks and do plan on posting a decklist once I have the deck tuned corretly, currently transmute artifact and Thirst for Knowledge are fighting for the same spot in the deck. But now for my advise.

Mox diamond in a deck that runs crucible is awesome. I do think It would be good as a 2-3 of because it allows for 1st turn chalice for 1, or hymn, or double duress or all sorts of evil. Oh, and did you try any flagstones of trokair or did you just not have any room in the deck?

Just out of curiosity, do you run Paradox Haze in your Mono-U Stax build?

[Complete_Jank]

Just out of curiosity, do you run Paradox Haze in your Mono-U Stax build?

Yes, I posted it in my tourney report. It was the reason I couldn't beat him, once it resolved.


BTW, I am going to post up another thread that is similar to this deck, however it will be based around Small Pox, and it does work better with Mox Diamond and Flagstone of Trokair. I would discuss it in here, but I don't want to side track discussion on this deck.

[Complete_Jank]

Friday's Tourney Results:

Round 1 vs Black/White Braids
I knew before the match started what I was playing, and he knew what I was playing, so we knew it would be an interesting match, but that I had the advantage.

-Game 1: He gets an early braids, and I drop Crucible the following turn with ritual and replay a land and vindicate his Crucible, forcing him to sac his Braids. I chalice for 1, and follow it with Angel. He follows with his own Angel. I draw another Angel, and proceed to rack my life over a 100. Finally I draw a Vindicate and kill his Angel, and beat over two turns

-Game 2: I get 4th turn Goblin Trenches, and kill him by turn 8 with tokens.

Round: 2-0


Round 2 vs Blue/White
This deck was a horrible type 2 style deck with Swords and Mother of Runes, and the player was slow, as he recently came back to magic. I had to keep reminding him that it was his turn. Nice guy, just wish he played faster.

-Game 1: I see no win conditions and no removal, as he's playing basic lands. Slow loss to beat down.

-Game 2: I beat him down with Angel, and kill his Mother of Runes with Cabal Pits.

-Game 3: He plays a pro-black 3/3 flyer on tune 4, which I can't kill because Cabal Pit was used twice last turn and can only be used once this turn. I end my turn (Turn 5) with him at 2, me at 40, and my Angel blocked.

Round: 1-1-1


Round 3 vs Slivers.

-Game 1: I duress first and see nothing but land and slivers, good thing I have a E. Plague in hand. He draws to Muscle slivers, my Angel Morphs and blocks one, and I hold off till I draw a second Plague, and win.

-Game 2: I pyroclasm turn 2 and kill of a Muscle Sliver. Turn three I drop a Plague. Turn 5, I pyroclasm. Turn 7, I Cabal Pit. Turn 8, I drop another Plague, and game just goes till I draw a Trenches, and beat him down.

Round: 2-0


Round 4 vs Red/White/Blue Fish

-Game 1: I muligan, no land. I pile shuffle. I see land, and draw nothing but land.

-Game 2: I muligan, no land again. I pile shuffle again. 2nd hand I see two Chalice and Chalice 1 and 2, and finally see a Braids about 15 turns in. I beat down until I win about 12 turns later. (She had Lightning Helixed me in response to Chalice 2)

-Game 3: I have a hand full of land, and muligan. I pile shuffle yet again. Ok hand, and don't draw any land to play Braids or Angel.

Round: 1-2


Round 5 vs Blue Staxs
The one match up I didn't want to play.

-Game 1: I duress turn one and take Parralex Haze, and Chalice for zero. I have LD, and bring Braids out, and lock down Turn 4 with Crucible.

-Game 2: Long drawn out game under Smokestacks, Tangle Wire, and Goblin Welder. I had Crucible, but could never draw any Dark Rituals to get out from under the lock.

-Game 3: We are going to draw, unless someone conceeds, so I conceed and we split his winnings.

Round: Officially 1-2

Tourney Record: 2-2-1

Horrible night, as I had Braids lock twice, and once of them was really just a Chalice of the Void lock with all the LD.

[SpikeyMikey]

This deck was mainly pushed by myself as a deck to make better and competitve, but the same people that helped bring you San Diego Zoo and 4c BHWC Landstill have had inputs on this deck as well.


4c BHWC was Jaco and Nick, although unless I'm misremembering, Nick basically tweaked my 4c Landstill more to his taste after playing against it, so I wouldn't really call it an original deck.

SDZ on the other hand was pretty much all me and Chris, with a little input by Dean and input and PR work by Dave Hernandez.

Not to nitpick, but I do have a fair amount of pride tied up in Zoo, so I hope you'll excuse my correction ;)

All that aside, what makes this stronger than the old B/W Braids that used to see play in SD? You have very few creatures, Braids is not a win-condition unless you've got Crucible, since you can't avoid your own Braids lock. B/W has Arena and can comfortably sit on Braids just as easily as you can with Crucible, except Arena allows you to dig and Crucible just rehashes what you have.

Old Braids has Spectral Lynx. I've heard it's pretty good against Gro, and regenerators never hurt against Gobbos. You've got Angel, which is unlikely to hit early, since you're running 3 Tombs. It also had Shade, which while mana intensive, is an excellent blocker as well as a beat stick.

Your mana base is infinitely more disruptable, since you're running 3 colors and are forced to run fetches to keep any sort of consistancy.

The only real positive side I see to all this is CotV, and that's iffy, since B/W Braids did just fine against control and combo, and only had to work it's ass off against aggro.

I can't say anything definitive without testing this deck first, but I will say that I'm extremely skeptical.

[Complete_Jank]

4c BHWC was Jaco and Nick, although unless I'm misremembering, Nick basically tweaked my 4c Landstill more to his taste after playing against it, so I wouldn't really call it an original deck.

SDZ on the other hand was pretty much all me and Chris, with a little input by Dean and input and PR work by Dave Hernandez.

Not to nitpick, but I do have a fair amount of pride tied up in Zoo, so I hope you'll excuse my correction ;)

All that aside, what makes this stronger than the old B/W Braids that used to see play in SD? You have very few creatures, Braids is not a win-condition unless you've got Crucible, since you can't avoid your own Braids lock. B/W has Arena and can comfortably sit on Braids just as easily as you can with Crucible, except Arena allows you to dig and Crucible just rehashes what you have.

Old Braids has Spectral Lynx. I've heard it's pretty good against Gro, and regenerators never hurt against Gobbos. You've got Angel, which is unlikely to hit early, since you're running 3 Tombs. It also had Shade, which while mana intensive, is an excellent blocker as well as a beat stick.

Your mana base is infinitely more disruptable, since you're running 3 colors and are forced to run fetches to keep any sort of consistancy.

The only real positive side I see to all this is CotV, and that's iffy, since B/W Braids did just fine against control and combo, and only had to work it's ass off against aggro.

I can't say anything definitive without testing this deck first, but I will say that I'm extremely skeptical.

SpikeyMikey,
I think I am correct in my thinking that you are Mike T? If you are, you've played against this deck back in the day. It has changed a little, as I don't run FTK's or Plague Spitters anymore.

People don't understand that yes, it is a 3 color deck, but the red is almost never needed, and never fetched unless I am doing one of two things.
1. Looking to play Goblin Trenches.
or
2. Fetching a basic Mountain just to have the red later since I already have enough basic Swamps in play.

As for BHWC Landstill, That deck has changed even more than you last remember it, and I have played against that deck more than anyone else on the face of this planet, because Nick and I play test together more than anyone else.

As for my comment about Zoo. I was just refering that I had taken a few inputs from the same guys that have helped on that deck. Dave and Dean have had their little influence on the deck, more Dave than Dean, but that was long ago as well. Not to mention, I also thought Jamison (SP?) had a little input as well.

Why don't you show up tomorrow at Game Empire at about 5:30 pm and we can play a little, that way you can see the deck as it is today in person. It wouldn't hurt to have you at the tourney again either.

Don't make me beat you down with a Polar Kraken again.

[Complete_Jank]

Ok, Tourney Report from Friday.

Sorry for the brevity of the report, but all information was lost when I tried to post it the first time.

Round 1 vs R/G Beats.
If it was Zoo, I would have been fine, however he was running Burning Tree Shaman and Rumbling Slum with accel of Birds and Lotus Petal. I never saw any of my Cabal Pits or the Pyroclasms after sideboard.

Round: 0-2

Match: 0-1-0


Round 2 vs G/B Threshold
Close game one, as I ended at one life, but Goblin Trenches and Braids held off, even with out Crucible. Game two, we both had bad hands, and Angel went most of the way, and then was putrefied, but Trenches swarmed for the win. Leyline of the Void went in, and started in play.

Round: 2-0

Match: 1-1-0


Round 3 vs Pox/Small Pox
Game one, he never got more than two lands, and I had a chalice for 2 after a first turn duress took his dark ritual. Game two I gamble that he won't have a duress, and it pays off as I ritual out my crucible with only one land. It wouldn't have mattered anyways, as I drew 4 land in a row, and had all the juice in my hand.

Round: 2-0

Match: 2-1-0


Round 4 vs Blue Staxs again!
I dreaded this match up because I always get unlucky. This time %'s paid off, and I won with Goblin Trenches beat down over 3 turns. Game two I got the Braids lock and had enough disruption to prevent him from getting to three mana.

Round: 2-0

Match: 3-1-0


Round 5 vs ATS
I get paired down against a friend, and he won't concede and split, because he knows he has a pretty good match up against me because of low cost permanents, Tradewind Riders, but mostly because of Queer Ranger. Game one he goes first turn Ranger off a Tropical Island and I Ritual and Plague the bastard. He drops wall of Roots. I Sink Hole his basic Forest next turn. He draws and plays a bird. I waste tropical, and sink hole another forest. He plays a land and I use Ancient Tomb to get Braids out and follow the next turn with Crucible and lock. Game two he wins as he gets to 4 mana and plays Tradewind, but I still Ritual and Plague his first turn Q. Ranger again. Game three, my hand is 2xPlague, 1xDark Ritual, 2xFetchlands, 1xAncient Tomb, & 1xBraids. I win game 3, as both Birds and Ranger die.

Round: 2-1

Match: 4-1-0

I take 6th place, and my only loss was to the 4th place finisher, also 4-1-0.