[Discussion] Best card against combo

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Hey guys, i'm new in legacy and i want to know what's the best card against combo decks as solidarity and iggy pop.

[calosso]

Against storm based combo stifle is very strong against them.

[kicks_422]

A lot of options, actually... Here's some off the top of my head:

Stifle
Chalice of the Void
Pyrostatic Pillar
Tormod's Crypt (for Iggy)
Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast (for Solidarity)
Glowrider
Rule of Law/Arcane Laboratory
Meddling Mage
Trinisphere
Sphere of Resistance
Duress/Cabal Therapy/Hymn to Tourach
Force of Will

There's really no BEST card, IMHO... To beat combo, you have to have at least one of the above cards printed and a whole deck that's equipped with a strategy to beat combo, either by countermagic (Thresh, also with MM's), racing them (Goblins), or outcomboing (using a combo deck yourself)

[Zir]

It all depends on the deck you're playing, but they all have in common that no combo hate is any good without a solid clock. Chalice tends to be really backbreaking against both Solidarity and Iggy Pop, since they have to find bounce. It only sets them back about two to three turns though, so it's worthless if you can't put a clock on them.

[noobslayer]

From a solidarity players view, I hate seeing threshold (of the UGw variety). It spells all sorts of speed bumps. Then comes chalice.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

My deck is U/W control with enlightened tutors, so what's the best option?

[Blair Phoenix]

My deck is U/W control with enlightened tutors, so what's the best option?

probably rule of law/arcane lab.

[Phantom]

I would vote Meddling Mage. The fact that he is a clock takes care of 2 quotas.

[rsaunder]

I would vote Meddling Mage. The fact that he is a clock takes care of 2 quotas.That and rule/arcane make for some pretty heavy duty hate. And you can get away with running just one of each, cuz of tutor.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Ok, i run 4 meddling mages, 1 rle of law and 1 arcane lab.

I think these are the better options.

[noobslayer]

Arcane labs are probably a lot better because they pitch to force.

[Phantom]

Arcane labs are probably a lot better because they pitch to force.

The 1/1 split is better than just 2 Arcane Labs though because if you get both down then it's over (as they can't simply Echoing Truth both of them and go off).

[iOWN]

The 1/1 split is better than just 2 Arcane Labs though because if you get both down then it's over (as they can't simply Echoing Truth both of them and go off).

They can still Cleanfall. :P

The percentage of drawing and playing both before they can combo is pretty small, so I'd say it doesn't matter that much. But,since you are likely going to Enlightened Tutor for them, pitching to FoW is much less of a deal making 1/1 split a teensy bit better.

[Iranon]

I'd say go light on any hate costing 3 or more since they can just race that occasionally.

Chalice of the Void is probably the best compromise between casting cost and overall usefulness.

[Phantom]

They can still Cleanfall. :P

The percentage of drawing and playing both before they can combo is pretty small, so I'd say it doesn't matter that much. But,since you are likely going to Enlightened Tutor for them, pitching to FoW is much less of a deal making 1/1 split a teensy bit better.

Yeah, I mean he said he was running E tutor, so that gives him basically of them in the deck. Plus he's running UW control, so I'm assuming he's running a crapload of draw. Finally, he can slow combo down with counters and by dropping a Lab or Rule, so I'd say the chances of him resolving both against combo are at least decent.

I won't dignify the Cleanfall comment with a response :)

[Kirika]

It really depends on what colors you are playing but the best colorless solutions against storm combo is the already mentioned chalice of the void and sphere of resistance.

I currently play Fish which has a really good game against combo. force of will, stifle, meddling mage, duress, make it tough for them to win.

[Team-Hero]

When you Chalice... what number do you put it on against what decks?

[Pale Moon FTW]

That is being discussed in this thread (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6065)

[Tacosnape]

Force of Will. It's the only card that can be used to some degree against every combo deck and that you'll almost always get the opportunity to cast.

[FoolofaTook]

Force of Will. It's the only card that can be used to some degree against every combo deck and that you'll almost always get the opportunity to cast.

What do you counter against combo typically? Do you wait for the hand empty tutor or is that asking for trouble?

[ClearSkies]

Kind of hard to narrow down to one card against combo...

Maybe, 1st turn Duress on the play?
Trickbind (or Stifle) if you get a turn, and have mana for it.
Force of Will on the right card will stop them from having first turn kills.
(Unless they have protection of their own on first turn)

I personally like Chalice of the Void because it is colorless and can stop other stuff too.

[tylerwylie]

Kind of hard to narrow down to one card against combo...

Maybe, 1st turn Duress on the play?
Trickbind (or Stifle) if you get a turn, and have mana for it.
Force of Will on the right card will stop them from having first turn kills.
(Unless they have protection of their own on first turn)

I personally like Chalice of the Void because it is colorless and can stop other stuff too.

I think Duress and Stifle are the best two because they are playable turn one, Hymn, Sinkhole, and Force of Will and other cards are good, but after a Duress or two they are just brutal. So maybe Duress makes other cards just better?

[Tacosnape]

What do you counter against combo typically? Do you wait for the hand empty tutor or is that asking for trouble?

Depends on the situation and my hand and what deck I think I'm up against. If Belcher opens with a Land Grant, the decision is easy. If an opponent opens with Land, Dark Ritual, however, you have to guess what deck you're up against based on the Land showing.

If it's a City of Brass, you assume you're facing TES, and you have to guess if they're holding Petal/Jank/ETW or some Tutor combination. Here you make the decision based on what else is in your hand. If buying you the turn lets you get other disruption down or you can't deal with ETW at all, it might be worth Forcing the Ritual. However if the Force in your hand is your only real disruption at all, you might be better off risking the ETW and saving it for the tutor.

If it's a Swamp, Scrubland, or Badlands and a Dark Ritual, assume you're facing Black aggro, not combo. Underground Sea and Dark Ritual is difficult to tell what you're facing. This can be Iggy Pop, Doomsday, or U/B Aggro, but in any case you usually don't Force the Dark Ritual here. Bayou / Dark Ritual is similarly difficult to call. This is either Gamekeeper Salvagers with an amazing opening hand or Belcher that somehow drew its only Bayou. Either way I also usually don't Force the Ritual.

Moving away from Dark Ritual to other combo decks, figuring out what to Force against Solidarity completely depends on your deck and your hand. If I'm playing Faerie Stompy with a turn one Sea Drake but no Chalice, I'd Force their EOT Brainstorm without hesitation. If I get a Chalice down, however, I'm going to spend the Force to try and guard the Chalice instead. If you have to try to stop Solidarity's actual combo from going off, focus all your resources on stopping one part of their combo and letting the other go. Either Force all their major draw spells or Force their untap effects.

The point of all this rambling is that it's completely based on the situation and what's in your hand. When faced with a choice of what to Force, you have to envision your plan assuming the Force works. Do you have a fast clock or fast disruption and can afford to Force the Ritual to be safe? Or are you going to be a bit slow and need your Force to completely wreck your opponent's gameplan?

Practice against all kinds of combo decks with various blue decks to get the hang of this.

[ninjabear]

In my humble opinion, the only common thing that hurts all combo decks is discard. All combo decks plan to kill you with their initial 7. So discarding them their combo pieces is, in many cases, the best way for success.
That means Duress / Cabal Therapy / Hymn to tourach are normally your best friends against all kinds of combo.

Against storm-based combo, your best bet might be rule of law/arcane laboratory - IF you are able to cast those. I believe Stifle/Trickbind and Force of Will might be better answers (remember to Force of Will the key spell, normally the one providing mana, because the storm spell is effectively non-countereable). But people seem to forget there's also non-storm based combo (although a lot of people may think it's inferior)

For those, Force of Will is their worst nightmare, to the point that most of them will try to sneak Duress to remove Force of Will from your hand.

[emidln]

Tendrils of Agony

If you kill your combo-playing opponent before they can play their combo cards, you don't need to worry about disrupting them.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Duress because it gives you information, never misses, and costs 1 mana.

Unfortunately it sucks against Goblins.

[Iranon]

Two cards stand out over the rest: Trinisphere and Force of Will. Force because ultra-fast combo can ignore anything else on the play, and Trinisphere because it's a major roadblock that usually works on its own.

SI topdecks well enough to just win even after getting its hand torn to shreds, and has tools to deal with reactive hate. Permanent-based hate like Chalice or taxing effects tend to be more effective.

TES is so versatile that it's only moderately inconvenienced by heavy-duty hate; against them volume is more important than quality. They have a comparatively easy time getting rid of troublesome permanents, hence something versatile and guaranteed to hit like counters/discard is attractive.

Belcher is theoretically vulnerable to everything, but the opponent needs the right tools at the right time. Stifle, otherwise a very solid card, will often only delay the inevitable.

[thefreakaccident]

Orim's chant is also a very good card against combo, simply wait for them to slightly build storm count, wait until they use that final tutor, or build up enough mana, then chant with that last spell on the stack... not only will they burn for the mana floating, but it is like you just countered all those spells.

sometimes you end up just hitting a few cards, but sometimes it just wins games... of coarse it takes practice to use the card effectively against them.

I have played the card for years and still sometimes get the wrong read; oh, well.

the use also depends on what you think they are playing of coarse, but combo decks give you clues now a days as to what they are.

example being, underground sea, land grant, taiga, bayou, and a rainbow land (city of brass, mine, paradise).

[Ch@os]

"Mana Maze" is amazing if you play U.