[Discussion] RG Beatz - Not Zilla Stompy

[Citrus-God]

Anybody here play RG Beatz? Not talkin' bout the Midgame version, but the more unorthodox Tempo cards, like Maindecked Needles, or Wastelands. THat version is something to discuss. Me, and a couple other friends are huge advocates of RG Beatz, and have played it to huge success. It goes 50/50 against Goblins and Angel Stompy. Do well versus Thresh, The Rock, and various creature decks, and beat the ever loving shit out of Affinity.

My friend's build...


// Lands 20
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Rishadan Port
2 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
2 Mountain
2 Forest


// Creatures 18
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Troll Ascetic
3 Silhana Ledgewalker
3 Grim Lavamancer


// Spells 23
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Incenerate
4 Rancor
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Pithing Needle
2 Cursed Scroll


// Sideboard 15
1 Pithing Needle
4 Pyroclasm
3 Anarchy
3 Krosan Grip
4 Pyrostatic Pillar


And heres my version...


// Lands 22
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Taiga
2 Mountain
2 Forest


// Creatures 16
4 Kird Ape
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wild Mongrel/River Boa
4 Troll Ascetic


// Spells 23
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Sudden Shock
4 Rancor
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Pithing Needle
2 Crucible of Worlds


// Sideboard 15
1 Pithing Needle
4 Krosan Grip
3 Flametongue Kavu
3 Fledgling Dragon
4 Pyroclasm


Both our builds are geared towards aggro and have solutions to topdecking mode. We also had solutions towrds decks like Angel Stompy. He has Cursed Scroll, Needle, Mongrel, Troll, Ledgewalker, and Jitte. As for me, I have Needle, Factories, Troll, River Boa/Mongrel, and Jitte. We know River Boa is shit versus Mom, but Mongrel isnt. Our SBs are also different. Mine trnasforms mine into a Midgame deck to break the ground wars, while my friend already did that with Ledgewalker. I really Fledgling Dragon in this deck, as well as FtK. It might be a waste of a slot, so you could cut the Dragons for Anarchy.


Anyways, those are our builds. I would like to know everybody's on build of the deck or opinions on this deck. I really do think this deck can do well with the metagame right now.

[Tao]

16 creatures for 4 Rancor and 3 Jitte seems to few.

[Citrus-God]

16 creatures for 4 Rancor and 3 Jitte seems to few.

I run 20 if you include Mishra's Factory. Factories are a bit poor when it comes to using it as a blocker, but usually I attack with a Factory with a Jitte, and re-equip it an untapped creature and pass the turn. I also have 6 more creatures to side in for more Jitte abuse.

[magicmoron]

RG beatz has been my favorite deck for over 8 years and I feel I have put together every conceivable combination of workable cards. For the current meta of goblins, thresh, and high tide expected at the next ptq I would have to say a deck style like garv.dec would be more optimal. RG beatz works off tempo advantage which is why kird ape, bolt, rancor, and monrel are so powerful in it. With that said, cards like mishra's factory, jitte (to a leasser extent), wasteland, and cursed scroll do not work in RG beatz unless you are trying to force the mid-game like zilla stompy.

Since the current big 3 can simply outrace (or out-control in the case of thresh) a mid-game RG beatz deck. Well placed berserks from a garv.dec style of RG beatz will simply win games against high-tide and also an unsuspecting gobbos player. The berserks side out against thresh due to their controling aspect for enchantment destruction (worship) or for crypts.

hope this helps. Just my two cents. The Magic Moron.

[insertnamehere]

I was considering building a R/G version like this using Birds and Llanowars and a sideboard of 15 land destruction spells to switch out for 15 of the burn spells I would have in the deck.

[Finn]

A friend of mine has been using something similar (although monogreen).

My point is that Silhana with a Jitte or even Rancor is unbeatable for a lot of decks. I would have too see pretty conclusive evidence that the slot is needed elsewhere before considering that a good move.

[Solpugid]

Is sudden shock really necessary in here? I think it would be better suited as magma jet, or even silhana for some extra creatures.

[Citrus-God]

Is sudden shock really necessary in here? I think it would be better suited as magma jet, or even silhana for some extra creatures.

Sudden Shock is good in this deck. It hits Mongrel, Walla, Shade, Creatures with Jitte equiped, STE, Mother of Runes, and much more. It's so good. I also updated my new build...


// Lands 20
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
3 Treetop Village
3 Taiga
2 Forest
2 Mountain


// Creatures 18
4 Kird Ape
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Wild Mongrel
2 Skyshroud Elite


// Spells 23
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Chain Lightning
4 Rancor
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Pithing Needle
2 Cursed Scroll


// Sideboard 15
3 Anarchy
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Krosan Grip
4 Pyroclasm
1 Pithing Needle


I ditched the CoW idea. I still wanted a Manland in here, and Treetop Village got it's way in here.

[lukatron2]

there are a couple of different versions of this deck that Ive been messing around with for quite some time (a couple of years now) and I can't say that there is an optimal build. the following build has a greater match-up against thresh and solidarity while making it slightly weaker against gobbos and affinity but still not bad.

land 20
4 wooded foothills
4 taiga
4 wasteland
5 forest
3 mountain

4 kird ape
4 troll ascetic
4 silhana ledgewalker/wild mongrel
4 jungle lion

4 hidden gibbons/or genju of the cedars
4 berserk
4 rancor
4 lightning bolt
4 magma jet
4 chain lightning

sb:
3 pyrostatic pillar
3 pithing needle
3 red elemental blast
3 hail storm
3 krosan grip

this build is aimed more to beat combo and aggro-control but also stands its ground against other aggro decks. my other build is similar to the first two listed. I have to say that maindeck needles are REALLY, REALLY good against a lot of decks and they are rarely ever dead because you can always name fetchlands against solidarity/thresh.


4

[keys]

Here is a very straightforward deck design that performs consistently well:

4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Grim Lavamancer

4 Rancor
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Magma Jet
3 Chain Lightning

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
4 Mountain
4 Forest

Sideboard:
4 Naturalize/Krosan Grip
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Tormod's Crypt

You want to have at LEAST 20 threats to go with Rancor/Jitte. With Jet as your only card quality engine, you can't reasonably draw Needle, Scroll, Genju, Berserk, or CoW when you need them, so just leave them behind and go for consistency.

[Cavius The Great]

You want to have at LEAST 20 threats to go with Rancor/Jitte. With Jet as your only card quality engine, you can't reasonably draw Needle, Scroll, Genju, Berserk, or CoW when you need them, so just leave them behind and go for consistency.

Yea, Crucible of Worlds is awful in RG Beatz. It's basically skipping a turn playing it and gives your opponent an extra turn when you could very well be playing threats. It's garbage.

[magicmoron]

My current Build:

4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Skyshroud Ridgeback/Viridian Zealot
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Grim Lavamancer

4 Rancor
3 Giant Growth

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Berserks

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Bloodstain Mire
2 Windswept Heaths
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
3 Mountain
3 Forest

Sideboard:
4 Naturalize/Krosan Grip
4 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Tormod's Crypt

@ keys: In my testing with RG beatz if have found that wasteland is an equal tempo loss. The deck needs to consistently be dropping threats and should never have untapped land or never want to drop colorless land.

I like berserks because it gives you 8 ways to trample which is very important in the goblins matchup. I also dropped chain lightning due to the gobbos matchup many times they will have untapped red mana for incinerator use or by simply vialing out creatures or waiting to use the mana to activate a port. Thus trading 2 for 1 something this style of deck cannot afford.

About the Jitte, 4 mana in an aggro style deck is sub par. The earliest it can come online is 3 assuming your opponent has done nothing to disrupt your first threat. With 4 mana this deck could easily rancor a troll and swing for 5 which IMHO is equal to the power of the Jitte. Although, Im not stupid and I do realize the power of Jitte I don't think it is the best option in an early game style of RG beatz.

My 2Cents

The magic moron

[keys]

Going the pump/Berserk route is clearly an option, but I think it's too inflexible. It certainly has its place in mono green stompy, but I see it as being far inferior to burn in RG beats.

Skyshroud Ridgeback is horrid. There are a million better options available at one mana. Viridian Zealot works, but double G casting cost can often be prohibitive, and I never found the need for maindeck hate to begin with. Just play Mogg Fanatic, Silhana Ledgewalker, or River Boa, and be happy.

Sulfuric Vortex also seems out of place. A couple Anarchy is going to be more effective against Angel Stompy. I can't think of much else with life gain.

And you have 61 cards, by the way.

[Cavius The Great]

Skyshroud Ridgeback is horrid. There are a million better options available at one mana. Viridian Zealot works, but double G casting cost can often be prohibitive, and I never found the need for maindeck hate to begin with.

That's why people play with a little goblin called Tin-Street Hooligan. I heard it's pretty good. :wink:

[magicmoron]

@keys: I disagree about the berserks being inflexible. The reason why the deck was originally shelved is that it can not beat any combo deck without siding. The berserks allow you to race high tide and several less popular combo decks. However, I often side them out against heavy creature control decks as they are often dead.

As far as ridgeback being horrible I beg to differ. Your offerings for replacement:

Mogg fanatic: Helps goblins incinerator allowing him to kill your 3 toughness creatures faster. Also, he will rarely do more damage than a ridgeback will before fading out. A rancored or pumped fanatic will die on the first attack when block but the 3 toughness of a ridgeback will allow him to live. His drawback is also lessened when berserked since he is going to the yard anyway and will help feed lavamancer the same as Mr. Fantastic.

Ledgewalker: I have not tested but could possible replace troll. But I will test in the ridgeback slot. The problem is another 2 drop may clog up the deck since I usually like to have the turn 2 troll drop (with ESG)/mongrel/ or another kird/ridgeback with rancor/growth/bolt back up.

River Boa: Is a house vs. thresh and a lesser extent gobbos but he was tested and the curve clog was what resulted.

As far as sulfuric vortex is concerned you are right. I have a lot of angel stompy in my meta and have found that 4 mana can be difficult to get to and have opted to use sulfuric vortex since it speeds my clock and is lower in the curve.

In regards to the GG casting cost of zealot. I see we both use troll and he has the same cost and Im sure we both can agree that this is a moot point. Cavius the Great has a good idea with the Hooligan, however, he does not hit enchantments and worship kills this deck. I realize this is not played in many american style thresh decks now and I would consider this a meta call.

I also agree with Cavius the Great's comment on the crucible. I would rather have another legitamet threat like BTS for the same mana. Cursed scroll is also very mana intensive for an early beats deck. The long game cure is already in the deck and is grim lavamancer who also happens to rock vs. homebrew and black disruption decks of that ilk.

As far as the 61 cards is concerned, I have played for around 8 years and have run 60 and 61 cards and feel that the small percentage lost is neglible especially when running 8 fetches. This is also discussed in many vintage style decks. But this discussion is for a different thread.

My 2 cents

The Magic Moron

[Citrus-God]

there are a couple of different versions of this deck that Ive been messing around with for quite some time (a couple of years now) and I can't say that there is an optimal build. the following build has a greater match-up against thresh and solidarity while making it slightly weaker against gobbos and affinity but still not bad.

land 20
4 wooded foothills
4 taiga
4 wasteland
5 forest
3 mountain

4 kird ape
4 troll ascetic
4 silhana ledgewalker/wild mongrel
4 jungle lion

4 hidden gibbons/or genju of the cedars
4 berserk
4 rancor
4 lightning bolt
4 magma jet
4 chain lightning

sb:
3 pyrostatic pillar
3 pithing needle
3 red elemental blast
3 hail storm
3 krosan grip

this build is aimed more to beat combo and aggro-control but also stands its ground against other aggro decks. my other build is similar to the first two listed. I have to say that maindeck needles are REALLY, REALLY good against a lot of decks and they are rarely ever dead because you can always name fetchlands against solidarity/thresh.


4

I remember I slapped the hell out of Ur Landstill with RG Beatz w/ Genju. So you took out Jittes, Luke? Why, it's Cursed Scroll on crack! and yes, when people say Needle doesnt affect them... haha, they're lying! One time my playtest partner was playing Beatz and I was playing Thresh. He went first turn Needle -> Flooded Strand. I couldn't access my blue Basics and I lost that game... I also converted like 1 Strand for a Delta.

@CoW: It's meant to be slow. My deck is more oriented towards taking down the Thresh, and other midgame decks. The Rock has such an unstable manabase... the version with White anyways.

[lukatron2]

I remember I slapped the hell out of Ur Landstill with RG Beatz w/ Genju. So you took out Jittes, Luke? Why, it's Cursed Scroll on crack! and yes, when people say Needle doesnt affect them... haha, they're lying! One time my playtest partner was playing Beatz and I was playing Thresh. He went first turn Needle -> Flooded Strand. I couldn't access my blue Basics and I lost that game... I also converted like 1 Strand for a Delta.


This build is a build meant to race combo and beat aggro-control, I guess you could just swap out the chain lightning for jitte but the whole idea of the deck I posted earlier is to smash fast and hard. Jitte is a little to slow for that. You could definately put 3 or 4 of them in the sb though. I was going to run this build at the next legacy tourney with the swap of jungle lions for skyshroud ridgeback, but my friend has one of my berserks and he's up at college. (I'm not about to run it with only 3 berserks).
...p.s. big 1.5 tourney on the 16th at monsters den 1:00pm coming up soon

[Citrus-God]

Hot! Wanna dominate it with me and Alec that day? I know what deck I'll run, and it'll win me tons of games, and hopefully, I can actually Top 8 this time.

Also, arent Skyshroud Elites better than Jungle Lion again Thresh? They are pretty awful against Solidarity though. Running 3 Berserks is enough IMO. I can only see like 2-3 Berserks being ran in a deck.

We should also find a way and get together to playtest Luke, because that tournament is coming up. Also, your part of this god awful team, put it in yo sig dawg.

[lukatron2]

alright...sorry to dig this old thread up but I've been playing R/G beats for about 2+ years in legacy and have a lot of experience with the deck...lately, I've come up with a dilema and I wan't to know what some of you guys think...its pretty stupid/simple but here it is...I can't decide wether 20 or 22 lands is more optimal. I always run 20 but for some reason lately it seems like I don't get enough land...my mana curve ends at x4 troll ascetic but still...
my CURRENT mana base is this

4 taiga
4 wooded foothills
4 wasteland
5 forest
3 mountain...

the one I am testing is almost the same but with the addition of 2 windsweapt heath...what does everyone think?...should I post my decklist for reference

[mmmetaphor]

I play an R/G deck with 20 land but no troll ascetics and I rarely feel like I'm mana screwed.. My base looks like this:

4 Wooded foothills
4 Blood-Stained Mire
4 Taiga
2 Stomping Grounds
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Wastelands

I don't play any creatures that require more than 1 mana of any given color though.

*If* I did play troll though I think i'd have to drop the wastelands and/or go up to 22 land...

[Citrus-God]

I built the best RG Beatz deck last night. I dont know why my team is obsessed with RG Beatz...


// Mana 20
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
2 Mountain
4 Forest


// Creatures 18
4 Kird Ape
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 River Boa
4 Troll Ascetic
2 Silhana Ledgewalker


// Spells 22
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Incenerate
4 Rancor
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Pithing Needle


// Sideboard 15
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Rough // Tumble
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Loaming Shaman

[Goblin Snowman]

Has Elvish or Simian Spirit Guide been considered? Also, can the deck beat Solidarity or Iggy Pop pre-board?

[Citrus-God]

Has Elvish or Simian Spirit Guide been considered? Also, can the deck beat Solidarity or Iggy Pop pre-board?

We've beaten Solidarity before because they kept a hand that could go off turn 6 against us. We usually goldfish them around turn 4-5. They knew better game 2 and 3, and sided BEB against us, and knew what were better hands to keep. The RG Beatz player on the other hand is forced to side in REB and Pillars.

[Goblin Snowman]

Why on earth would they do that? Assume you have to go off turn 4 against the other deck until you get more information. On paper it looks bad; your only disruption is Needling Fetches, and you only have eight Burn spells to kill them with at instant speed.

[Citrus-God]

Why on earth would they do that? Assume you have to go off turn 4 against the other deck until you get more information. On paper it looks bad; your only disruption is Needling Fetches, and you only have eight Burn spells to kill them with at instant speed.

Actually, the card that hurts me most is probably Remand. If this were the days when that card wasnt exsistent, we would do much better. Rancor is the MVP obviously.