[Discussion] Sacred Guide/Second Sunrise Combo

[No_Life_No_Future]

Sacred Guide
Card type: Creature

Creature type: Cleric

Power/Toughness:1/1

Casting cost: W

Oracle text: 1W, Sacrifice Sacred Guide: Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a white card. Put that card into your hand and remove all other revealed cards from the game.

I Just found this baby and I think it might be broken so I thought i would start up some discussion.

When i read this card i imediatley thought it belonged in some form of combo.
Second Sunrise anyone?


This deck which I saw posted by noobslayer I could not find a thread, but it has the type of shell im looking for.

Hard Boiled Awsome Sauce

// Lands
4 [IN] Archaeological Dig
4 [MI] Crystal Vein
1 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
1 [OD] Barbarian Ring
4 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [IA] Tinder Wall

// Spells
3 [JU] Cunning Wish
3 [EX] Reclaim
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Second Sunrise
2 [OD] Mossfire Egg
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [IN] Chromatic Sphere
4 [FD] Conjurer's Bauble
4 [OD] Sungrass Egg
4 [OD] Skycloud Egg
1 [VI] Summer Bloom
1 [UL] Crop Rotation

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [EX] Reclaim
SB: 1 [JU] Krosan Reclamation
SB: 1 [ON] Naturalize
SB: 1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 4 [UL] Defense Grid
SB: 1 [SC] Stifle
SB: 1 [AQ] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 [PS] Orim's Chant
SB: 1 [US] Stroke of Genius
SB: 1 [JU] Ray of Revelation
SB: 1 [PS] Rushing River


I dont have anymore time when i do i will try to think about how to change the decklist to include the Sacred guides, or possibly just start over with a whole different engine. (mabey more land based over artifacts fetches/rain of filth)

[Di]

Oracle text: 1W, Sacrifice Sacred Guide: Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a white card. Put that card into your hand and remove all other revealed cards from the game.

que?

Not to mention:



Second Sunrise

Oracle text: Each player returns to play all artifact, creature, enchantment, and land cards that were put into his or her graveyard from play this turn.



Really not sure where you're going here....

[Jaynel]

Diablos pretty much summed it up: Hermit Druid this isn't.

This would be pretty busted with Replenish if the cards went to the graveyard, though.

[No_Life_No_Future]

what im saying is 1 sacred guide becomes a recurrable demonic consultation that allows you to get all of your permanents that allows you to second sunrise 4 times... (which wont take away your entire deck).

Yes you get the perments in that were in PLAY back. Making Fetchlands, and all of the the cantriping artifacts HUGE CARD advantage. You easily win by recuring a giant second sunrise with conjuer'rs boble when there are no cards left in your deck.... and recuring a spellbomb, or wish for win....

[herbig]

This would be pretty busted with Replenish if the cards went to the graveyard, though.

Or Yawgmoth's Will.

I liked the irony in "type of shell I'm looking for." Grim Tutor is a black version of this card that gets anything you want. It also has savage synergy with Dark Ritual.

[Complete_Jank]

Sacred Guide also gets another Sacred Guide. Not reliable.

[No_Life_No_Future]

herbig I think you are missing the point. Sacred Guide is good because it not only grabs the second sunrise, but when you play the sunrise it comes back to grab you another second sunrise.....which then will grab you another, and if you need it, another after that. (which is amazing....)

[Slag]

I think the best use of sacred guide you could get is using it as a living wish target, so you can effectively run four without hitting another while consulting.

[Phantom Ogre]

Sacred Guide really isn't needed. Modern Second Sunrise/Eggs lists are extremely tight and tend to play the minimal number of eggs in order to maximize the engine's density. Furthermore, the deck plays very few win conditions, so you'll run the risk of removing them. Cunning Wish helps to negate this last drawback, but Cunning Wish isn't actually all that great prior to going off in this deck, which is the time when you're most likely to need an answer to hate.

As the primary designer behind most modern lists of Second Sunrise/Eggs, here's what I recommend running:

Hardboiled Awesome Sauce

Maindeck: 60

Lands: 13

Archaeological Dig x 4
Cephalid Coliseum x 2
City of Traitors x 3
Crystal Vein x 4

Mana Acceleration: 11

Lion’s Eye Diamond x 3
Lotus Petal x 4
Tinder Wall x 4

Engine: 13

Crop Rotation x 1
Mystical Tutor x 4
Reclaim x 4
Second Sunrise x 4

Fuel: 20

Chromatic Sphere x 4
Cromatic Star x 4
Conjurer’s Bauble x 4
Skycloud Egg x 4
Sungrass Egg x 4

Protection: 3

Angel’s Grace x 1
Chain of Vapor x 1
Abeyance x 1

Sideboard: 15

Alternate Win Condition: 1

Decree of Justice x 1

Lands: 1

Cephalid Coliseum x 1

Protection: 13

Angel’s Grace x 2
Phyrexian Furnace x 4
Abeyance x 2
Echoing Truth x 3
Gaea’s Blessing x 1
Rushing River x 1

This build has undergone a lot of testing and many people regard it as the optimal list. For more information, I recommend reading this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=551329) and this primer (http://www.team-abs.net/eggs.html). The thread has quite a lot of spam at the start and the primer needs better matchup overviews and statistics, but they should explain a great deal about the deck.

[iOWN]

I think the best use of sacred guide you could get is using it as a living wish target, so you can effectively run four without hitting another while consulting.

Nice! The other day I was pondering Sacred Guide with one of the Judgement Wishes, as a remove engine, and this ties everything together perfectly.

I dunno how jank this is, but it went infinite fourth turn during my only goldfish.

// Lands
3 [R] Savannah
2 [P2] Forest (2)
2 [TE] Plains (3)
3 [R] Plateau
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [ON] Windswept Heath

// Creatures
3 [FD] Eternal Witness
4 [IA] Tinder Wall
3 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
3 [TSP] Greater Gargadon

// Spells
1 [TSP] Grapeshot
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [TSP] Chromatic Star
4 [JU] Living Wish
4 [MR] Second Sunrise

I saw the Gargadon thing somewhere, and it basically functions as a sac outlet for anything. Suspend it first turn, start setting up with creatures and then tap all lands, sac them to Gargadon, play Sunrise, and go infinite as long as you have Witness in play. You can win with Star or Wall of Blossoms into Grapeshot.

Not sure what would go in the sideboard, but I see the other Witness, Blossoms, Gargadon, and then Guide, Viridian Zealot, and maybe Gamekeeper or something.

[Complete_Jank]

Sacred Guide also gets another Sacred Guide. Not reliable.

I think the best use of sacred guide you could get is using it as a living wish target, so you can effectively run four without hitting another while consulting.

I think those two guys got it pretty much right on.

[Warmonger]

Sacred Guide
Card type: Creature
Creature type: Cleric
Power/Toughness:1/1
Casting cost: W
Oracle text: 1W, Sacrifice Sacred Guide: Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a white card. Put that card into your hand and remove all other revealed cards from the game.
I Just found this baby and I think it might be broken so I thought i would start up some discussion.
When i read this card i imediatley thought it belonged in some form of combo.
Second Sunrise anyone?
That's pretty good idea, as this dekc relaly wants to tighten library and go infinity in short time, which was unlikely so far.
BUT doesn't removing a lot of cards from library make it unstable? Fizzling? How often do you remove all your baubles or winning conditions?

Anyway, I like this deck, in the previous extended it was absolutely sick and overpowered, but I stopped playing it when kill took me 15 minutes :/.

[blitz]

I saw the Gargadon thing somewhere, and it basically functions as a sac outlet for anything. Suspend it first turn, start setting up with creatures and then tap all lands, sac them to Gargadon, play Sunrise, and go infinite as long as you have Witness in play. You can win with Star or Wall of Blossoms into Grapeshot.

hmmm... gargadon seems like something extended would do (and currently, those folks are using the ghost quarter engine instead). I think for this deck, 2-mana lands really are optimal.

My list is the same as ogre's, but one difference:

// Lands
4 City of Traitors
4 Crystal Vein
1 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Archaeological Dig

I think the mana is a really big issue for this deck, especially when dealing with wasteland, so in terms of using it for reach, since the 2nd coliseum is not enough and 3 is too much, i cut one to get more mana in the deck. If you can explain your choice of 2 MD, than please do.

However, I honestly keep coming back to this list. I've tried all the extended fluff (reshape + lotus bloom for explosive turn 2 wins, or ghostquarter + krosan wayfarer BS, wishboards, etc), but it just never does it. I'd LIKE a list where one doesn't have to run all those pesky LEDs. LED has bothered me the most in this deck... it is the least synergistic element of our MD (in that it is a necessary evil in order to get the critical mass of mana needed to keep chaining sunrises before turn 4... I mean, if we aim for a turn 4, reshape + lotus bloom would be fine, but it's too slow). As far as I'm concerned, the construction of the deck is a huge balancing act. The only thing that made me play this finally was the inclusion of 4 chromatic stars. If only we had more petal type cards that sunrise could recur...

Just thought I'd put that out there. Peace.

[blitz]

hey, thought I might say something here...


I am currently running something with -3 LED, +3 crop rotation.

pros and cons so far...

LED
pros:
-More explosive starts, powerful accelerant
-ditches coliseum if it gets stuck in hand (reclaim/bauble it to the deck and rotate it in)
-can FIX mana, not just accelerate it
cons:
-the drawback is not synergistic with sunrise
-if you have a situation where the LED would be synergistic, it becomes a "win more" card anyway
-Most times, you'll lose other sunrises and tutors in hand just to access LED mana (which can then be baubled back, but it still hurts you none-the-less, especially if you DON'T have bauble, which happens a lot, actually)

Crop Rotation
pros:
-tinderwalls 5-8 (and if it's used on a city of traitors to get a crystal vein, it becomes an LED for one turn)
-shuffle effects 5-8 (mystical tutor being the only other one, and shuffle effects greatly improve the power of baubles)
-thins the deck of lands, which optimizes your egg draws (and you run so few lands in the first place, the effect of thinning them ever more is definitely felt)
-Can protect you from LD in a pinch (like, if you have no land cards in hand, and someone wastes your vein, suck it up and crack a star/sphere to rotate it and have a land for next turn. Not always a great idea, if you have enough free mana to work with, the land may have been unnecessary)
-can still be used as fetch for coliseum incase you need the draw when you have a large enough amount of mana, which is actually easier now, due to having 4 mysticals and 4 rotations. Thus, one of the coliseums can moved to SB to make room.

cons:
-not as powerful as LED
-doesn't fix mana
-the cost of the spell can be prohibitive to our color requirements without enough eggs/petals/digs in play, just like tinderwall

just thought I'd throw that out there, since it's working better for me. If you've tried this kind of configuration before, please tell me how it worked out for you.

current list:

Lands
3 City of Traitors
4 Crystal Vein
4 Archaeological Dig

Win Condition
1 Cephalid Coliseum

Mana Acceleration
4 Crop Rotation
4 Tinder Wall
4 Lotus Petal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond

Fuel
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Sungrass Egg
4 Skycloud Egg
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Chromatic Star

Protection
1 Abeyance
1 Angel's Grace
1 Chain of Vapor

Engine
4 Second Sunrise
4 Reclaim
4 Mystical Tutor


Sideboard
2 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Abeyance
2 Angel's Grace
1 Decree of Justice
4 Phyrexian Furnace
3 Echoing Truth
1 Gaea's Blessing

[blitz]

wow... an I really the only person to post on this in over 6 months?

Anyway, updated the list. I don't know if it's enough to make it contender (most likely not), but it's an improvement, for sure:

Land
2 City of Traitors
4 Crystal Vein
3 Archaeological Dig

Win Condition
1 Cephalid Coliseum

Mana Acceleration
4 Tinder Wall
4 Lotus Petal
4 Crop Rotation
1 Lion's Eye Diamond

Fuel
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
3 Sungrass Egg
2 Skycloud Egg
1 Horizon Canopy

Protection
1 Abeyance
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Angel's Grace

Engine
4 Second Sunrise
4 Reclaim
4 Mystical Tutor

... and 4 Street Wraiths.

Horizon Canopy is an egg you can FETCH (aka: with crop rotation, there are 5 extra ways to get an egg effect). Street wraiths + this means i get to run one less land, 3 less eggs, and be screwed less for it (oddly enough). Plus, canopy is good during development, since it means you'll have the green or white mana necessary to use both crop rotation and play tinder walls, as well as recover things with reclaim without cracking a dig or petal. I'm a little scared to up the count though, since it's pain, it doesn't replace itself unless you use it for it's draw, and it means either less 2 mana lands in the deck, or a chance we won't be able to get blue (less dig). That's about it, not a lot changed... just a numbers game (it's more consistent than before).

Side board hasn't been updated cuz I really don't know what I'd be putting in it just yet.